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1
00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:21,783
THE DINNER
2
00:01:20,848 --> 00:01:22,840
The idea of this film
3
00:01:23,017 --> 00:01:25,092
is an approach
4
00:01:25,570 --> 00:01:28,304
to the specific problems
of political prisoners.
5
00:01:30,138 --> 00:01:33,948
This meeting
of ex political prisoners
6
00:01:34,581 --> 00:01:39,217
took place in 1974
7
00:01:39,408 --> 00:01:41,127
in Catalonia.
8
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:49,634
All the participants intervened
in the making of this film,
9
00:01:50,290 --> 00:01:53,835
both in the subjects discussed
10
00:01:54,151 --> 00:01:59,076
as well as the strategy of approach
to the specific character
11
00:01:59,437 --> 00:02:02,314
of a person undergoing
the loss of his freedom.
12
00:02:02,827 --> 00:02:07,142
For obvious reasons, the names
of the technical team
13
00:02:07,435 --> 00:02:14,285
and the protagonists
of the film are not given.
14
00:02:18,038 --> 00:02:20,518
I will give concrete information
15
00:02:20,724 --> 00:02:25,160
about each of the participants
as ex political prisoners
16
00:02:26,479 --> 00:02:31,059
in relation to their
personal characteristics.
17
00:02:33,705 --> 00:02:38,405
The youngest was arrested
in November of 1962.
18
00:02:39,663 --> 00:02:44,219
He was interrogated for nineteen days
by the Political-Social Brigade.
19
00:02:45,990 --> 00:02:49,223
He was given thirty years
by a military tribunal
20
00:02:49,549 --> 00:02:51,554
and a petition
for the death penalty.
21
00:02:53,735 --> 00:02:58,717
In fact, he did ten years
going in prisons in Barcelona,
22
00:02:58,809 --> 00:03:01,518
Logroño, Burgos, Madrid,
Jaén and Zaragoza.
23
00:03:06,090 --> 00:03:08,537
Another arrest took place
in January of 1961,
24
00:03:08,935 --> 00:03:11,333
a RENFE (national rail road entity)
union mediator
25
00:03:11,553 --> 00:03:14,233
accused of being a member of
Comisiones Obreras (a communist union).
26
00:03:14,787 --> 00:03:17,413
He did seven years.
27
00:03:23,749 --> 00:03:25,597
Arrested in Santiago de Compostela
28
00:03:25,785 --> 00:03:29,237
and accused of propaganda
and illegal association,
29
00:03:30,237 --> 00:03:33,471
she did two and one half years
in the prison in Alcalá de Henares.
30
00:03:36,971 --> 00:03:40,686
This man did 25 years,
31
00:03:41,501 --> 00:03:45,024
spent in the various prisons
under the military tribunals.
32
00:03:47,018 --> 00:03:48,611
And finally,
33
00:03:50,709 --> 00:03:54,700
a man who was arrested in 1966
and did eight years
34
00:03:54,812 --> 00:03:58,162
after having been in the hands of the
Political-Social Brigade for 20 days.
35
00:03:58,546 --> 00:04:02,416
He underwent torture and was
interrogated at intervals of 2 hours.
36
00:04:05,957 --> 00:04:09,110
The sum total of prison years
of these five people
37
00:04:09,218 --> 00:04:12,047
adds up to more than 50 years.
38
00:04:20,808 --> 00:04:23,609
Let's listen
to what I taped before.
39
00:04:27,059 --> 00:04:29,148
We can try to synthesize it
40
00:04:29,362 --> 00:04:31,946
and then later on
we can look at other aspects.
41
00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,585
Let's turn up the volume.
42
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:40,929
Connect it, will you.
43
00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:54,101
There is a belief in communes
44
00:04:54,416 --> 00:04:59,557
and it is undeniable that when
the commune is not working well,
45
00:05:00,362 --> 00:05:03,340
politically things
aren't working either.
46
00:05:03,517 --> 00:05:06,997
To get the commune to work well
you have to be realistic.
47
00:05:07,505 --> 00:05:10,016
If it's not working it is
because of dishonesty
48
00:05:10,157 --> 00:05:12,947
on the part of the majority of
the components of the community.
49
00:05:13,067 --> 00:05:15,027
Or because it hasn't been
well conceived.
50
00:05:15,227 --> 00:05:17,187
Maybe, but apart from that,
51
00:05:17,347 --> 00:05:20,387
if for example
the commune has a meeting
52
00:05:20,547 --> 00:05:24,987
and the commune is following the
agreements voted on by the majority,
53
00:05:25,107 --> 00:05:27,627
it is difficult for the commune
not to be working well.
54
00:05:27,747 --> 00:05:30,507
What you can do in a commune
is to abstract,
55
00:05:30,627 --> 00:05:34,587
ignore that there are
private interests, honest interests,
56
00:05:34,877 --> 00:05:36,947
interests that you have to respect.
57
00:05:37,147 --> 00:05:41,187
In the commune they had
the possibility
58
00:05:41,347 --> 00:05:45,387
of handing over
their monthly budget
59
00:05:45,627 --> 00:05:48,427
that they had been spending
individually.
60
00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,467
You know that as well as I do,
61
00:05:51,667 --> 00:05:56,147
because I've been looking at
the papers and I thought to myself:
62
00:05:56,267 --> 00:05:58,203
I can't take anything from
this page because it won't cash up.
63
00:05:58,227 --> 00:06:00,587
But there were pages where
I knew the guy had money
64
00:06:00,787 --> 00:06:02,307
but the guy was a real vulture.
65
00:06:02,507 --> 00:06:05,227
He was using the solidarity
of the other guys
66
00:06:05,427 --> 00:06:09,507
and keeping what he got
from home for himself.
67
00:06:09,627 --> 00:06:13,347
What happens is that
the political prisoner,
68
00:06:13,467 --> 00:06:17,627
actually prisoners in general,
are substantially individuals,
69
00:06:18,187 --> 00:06:21,507
individuals who are alone
and in a difficult situation
70
00:06:21,787 --> 00:06:25,067
and they have to resolve
their reality, try to...
71
00:06:25,947 --> 00:06:27,707
When they got to Jaén,
72
00:06:27,907 --> 00:06:31,667
the time they rounded up
50 or 60 peasants
73
00:06:32,227 --> 00:06:34,467
from Linares and other villages,
74
00:06:34,627 --> 00:06:37,267
those people
had absolutely nothing.
75
00:06:37,347 --> 00:06:42,307
In those conditions
it is imperative, above all,
76
00:06:42,467 --> 00:06:44,667
to give up everything
77
00:06:44,867 --> 00:06:48,667
and show some solidarity with
these 60 men who have nothing.
78
00:06:49,187 --> 00:06:50,507
But that situation is provisional
79
00:06:50,627 --> 00:06:53,787
because after a couple of months,
there were only four left.
80
00:06:53,947 --> 00:06:58,507
Doing time in prison,
there are long periods,
81
00:06:58,667 --> 00:07:01,027
but people receive a little
or a lot from the outside,
82
00:07:01,187 --> 00:07:04,747
you keep receiving something.
And there is a kitty or joint fund.
83
00:07:05,187 --> 00:07:07,947
But in my experience,
the best way is
84
00:07:08,507 --> 00:07:15,747
to establish
small communes by origins.
85
00:07:15,907 --> 00:07:18,827
The people from Asturias,
the Catalans, the people from Madrid.
86
00:07:18,867 --> 00:07:23,547
Or by friendship, your friends.
87
00:07:25,467 --> 00:07:31,787
You get people together by political
affinity or ideological affinity,
88
00:07:31,947 --> 00:07:35,307
but at mealtimes people
want to go with their friends
89
00:07:35,387 --> 00:07:37,267
and you don't choose
friends politically,
90
00:07:37,467 --> 00:07:40,027
you choose your friends
and that's it.
91
00:07:40,307 --> 00:07:42,107
You can't choose them
for someone else.
92
00:08:09,587 --> 00:08:11,947
...I am not against it,
93
00:08:12,107 --> 00:08:15,987
I just consider it
a very extreme formula.
94
00:08:16,107 --> 00:08:19,987
Because in prison
I think you have to resort to...
95
00:08:21,867 --> 00:08:26,547
You're saying that a hunger strike
is an extreme form of struggle.
96
00:08:27,827 --> 00:08:31,347
But what do you mean by extreme?
97
00:08:31,827 --> 00:08:37,787
If you mean it as a last resort
as a way of harming the enemy,
98
00:08:37,947 --> 00:08:40,507
which is what the struggle is for,
99
00:08:40,827 --> 00:08:45,307
I wonder whether it really
harms the enemy or not.
100
00:08:45,387 --> 00:08:48,667
Maybe we only harm ourselves.
101
00:08:50,107 --> 00:08:54,427
Because taking over the prison,
burning it,
102
00:08:54,587 --> 00:08:56,827
kidnapping the warden,
103
00:08:57,027 --> 00:09:00,947
all that is an extreme
form of fighting,
104
00:09:01,027 --> 00:09:03,947
a tough struggle,
but it harms the enemy.
105
00:09:04,107 --> 00:09:06,947
Of course it also
harms us afterwards,
106
00:09:07,187 --> 00:09:13,187
but a hunger strike
only destroys our bodies,
107
00:09:14,187 --> 00:09:15,987
and where is the harm
to the enemy?
108
00:09:16,107 --> 00:09:22,747
If our enemy was sensitive
to the loss of lives,
109
00:09:22,827 --> 00:09:28,547
he would hurt because he cares
about human rights,
110
00:09:28,707 --> 00:09:30,787
but if the enemy doesn't care,
111
00:09:30,947 --> 00:09:36,187
the hunger strike
is a fatal business for us.
112
00:09:37,147 --> 00:09:40,547
We don't hurt the enemy,
we destroy ourselves
113
00:09:40,667 --> 00:09:43,027
and we achieve nothing.
114
00:09:43,507 --> 00:09:48,507
I think there is a certain suicidal
implication in a hunger strike.
115
00:09:48,787 --> 00:09:56,427
But that is also true
in a revolt.
116
00:09:56,740 --> 00:10:01,627
A hunger strike is extreme
and suicidal
117
00:10:01,787 --> 00:10:04,187
and if you are not receiving
support from the outside,
118
00:10:04,267 --> 00:10:06,067
you haven't got a chance.
119
00:10:06,227 --> 00:10:10,187
But outside support isn't constant.
120
00:10:13,107 --> 00:10:16,667
It must be very well organized
121
00:10:16,787 --> 00:10:20,987
and it has to be for an important
event such as the Burgos trial
122
00:10:21,147 --> 00:10:24,347
where outside support overwhelmed
the prisons. What we did in prison
123
00:10:24,587 --> 00:10:27,387
was nothing compared to what was
happening outside on the streets.
124
00:10:27,587 --> 00:10:31,307
In fact, if some men were saved
in the Burgos trial
125
00:10:31,467 --> 00:10:33,707
it was because of the fight
on the outside.
126
00:10:33,827 --> 00:10:37,147
In a case like that, the street
resistance guarantees a victory.
127
00:10:37,307 --> 00:10:40,467
But you have to realize that
when you resort to a hunger strike
128
00:10:40,667 --> 00:10:44,027
it is because there are no other
possibilities left to turn to.
129
00:10:44,187 --> 00:10:45,707
In that sense...
130
00:10:46,467 --> 00:10:49,227
Just a minute.
Lots of hunger strikes
131
00:10:49,587 --> 00:10:55,267
are not a last resort because
there are no other possibilities,
132
00:10:55,427 --> 00:10:58,827
they are just a lack of imagination,
133
00:10:59,067 --> 00:11:04,547
or doing it because
it worked once
134
00:11:04,707 --> 00:11:10,307
and it is repeated
again and again
135
00:11:10,827 --> 00:11:13,307
and the results get worse and worse.
136
00:11:13,427 --> 00:11:17,227
Before doing a hunger strike,
137
00:11:17,467 --> 00:11:22,867
which more than extreme
is a desperate measure,
138
00:11:23,387 --> 00:11:28,587
I think there are a lot of other
things that can be done.
139
00:11:29,147 --> 00:11:31,187
You have to work hard
to find solutions.
140
00:11:31,347 --> 00:11:34,467
Lots of times we get obsessed
with a hunger strike
141
00:11:34,627 --> 00:11:38,667
thinking it will harm the enemy
and it just isn't true.
142
00:11:38,787 --> 00:11:44,667
This enemy is not sensitive
to suffering or the loss of lives.
143
00:11:44,867 --> 00:11:47,707
The enemy is sensitive
to scandals.
144
00:11:47,907 --> 00:11:56,307
If there is no outside support,
the hunger strike is pitiful.
145
00:11:58,507 --> 00:12:03,667
Allow me, I want
to make something very clear.
146
00:12:03,827 --> 00:12:07,027
When I said it was extreme,
147
00:12:07,187 --> 00:12:10,867
I did not mean
it was the loftiest way
148
00:12:11,187 --> 00:12:18,627
because I agree that it is
a desperate measure
149
00:12:18,787 --> 00:12:26,067
and is only useful
with outside support.
150
00:12:26,347 --> 00:12:34,147
It becomes noticeable
151
00:12:34,387 --> 00:12:40,067
when people on the outside
are fighting for us.
152
00:12:40,307 --> 00:12:44,027
What I meant when I said extreme,
not loftiest,
153
00:12:44,107 --> 00:12:47,507
is that you resort to it
154
00:12:47,627 --> 00:12:51,907
when there are no other
possibilities left to fight with.
155
00:12:52,107 --> 00:12:57,627
I agree that there are
other ways to fight in prison
156
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,560
I have participated
in lots of hunger strikes,
157
00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,200
and I know
what it can do to your body.
158
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,320
I'd like to say that there is
also another aspect involved.
159
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,560
The hunger strike is not always
directed at the enemy.
160
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:14,920
When it is done against the enemy
it is usually useless.
161
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,360
Often hunger strikes are meant
162
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:26,160
to make people aware of the
desperate situation we are in,
163
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:31,360
and then, if there is no solidarity or
support or a struggle on the outside,
164
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,760
we are nowhere.
We are just rotting and dying.
165
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:38,760
It can be effective just like
those Chinese who commit suicide
166
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:44,720
to demonstrate how cruel
the enemy is and so on...
167
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,240
"Sometimes it is a way
of drawing attention
168
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,920
to a desperate situation
with a desperate measure".
169
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,600
I agree somewhat with that:
170
00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:00,480
"Sometimes it is a way
of drawing attention
171
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:05,080
to a desperate situation
with a desperate measure".
172
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,560
But what I want to insist on
is something else.
173
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,200
You say other forms
of more direct,
174
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,920
more violent action in attacking
the enemy are more efficient.
175
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,520
I think a revolt,
just like the hunger strike,
176
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,080
is a form of impotence
in a desperate situation.
177
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,120
In that case, for me
the analogy is very clear.
178
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,880
And I agree that you can't
resort to a hunger strike
179
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,480
for less important demands
without having tried
180
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,080
all the other possibilities
of action inside the prison.
181
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:42,400
And of course,
the conditions at this time
182
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,880
are not favourable
to a hunger strike.
183
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,960
It's been used excessively.
184
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,080
I think that it depends
185
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:57,680
on the existing forces
within each specific prison.
186
00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:02,280
It has to be the people
in that prison
187
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,640
who weigh the probabilities
of receiving support
188
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:11,680
and stirring up a reaction
on the outside
189
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:16,280
and the possible outcome of
drawing attention to the situation.
190
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,240
The concept of a hunger strike
191
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:43,840
brings up another question which
is vital for a political prisoner.
192
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,680
Is the prison a front line fight?
193
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:57,320
Yes, I think it is.
194
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:02,920
Especially for those
who are on the outside.
195
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:09,480
In other words, the aim
of the people on the outside
196
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:15,840
is to free political prisoners,
to achieve an amnesty
197
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,440
or get them out
in the best possible condition.
198
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:27,200
For those on the inside, and given
the conditions we are in,
199
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:32,360
our main goal is to withstand.
200
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,080
To withstand with dignity
under the best possible conditions,
201
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,120
to get back on the streets
in good condition
202
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,320
so as to rejoin
the struggle once again.
203
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,920
But the fighting front
within a prison
204
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:51,880
is not comparable
to the fight of the workers,
205
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,080
the students,
the intellectuals and others.
206
00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:00,960
I don't think it is comparable
or on the same level
207
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,640
as the struggle on the outside.
208
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,760
Conditions on the outside and
the inside are completely different.
209
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,560
Prisoners in jail
are in the enemy's entrails.
210
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,160
We are literally
and materially surrounded.
211
00:17:14,360 --> 00:17:18,960
We are subjected to a special
and extreme police vigilance.
212
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:23,160
We are surrounded by the
Guardia Civil within the prisons.
213
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,720
Undoubtedly we cannot fight
like they can on the streets
214
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,920
or in a factory
or the university.
215
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:36,200
We cannot deal with
it the same way.
216
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,080
First we must withstand,
217
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,240
because when the enemy
throws us in prison
218
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,961
what he wants is
to break us down politically.
219
00:17:45,081 --> 00:17:47,920
When we leave prison the enemy
wants us politically dried out,
220
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,960
wanting nothing to do
with politics.
221
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:52,800
Just going back
into a normal private life.
222
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:54,640
Basically that is
what the enemy wants
223
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,760
if we are not doing away with us
altogether, which also happens.
224
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,801
Okay, I agree. The first point
is that you can't compare
225
00:18:01,881 --> 00:18:04,720
the different fronts
in the struggle.
226
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,280
But precisely because the most
important for the political prisoner
227
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,880
is to get back on the streets
to continue fighting,
228
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,520
he must not only withstand
but fight
229
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:22,160
to obtain the best possible
conditions in prison
230
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:29,880
so he can be freed
in the best possible condition.
231
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,400
What you mean is that the fight
has to also continue in prison.
232
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,760
Of course, because otherwise
233
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,480
they would reduce us to a minimal
expression of what we are,
234
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,440
they would make us
common delinquents.
235
00:18:53,360 --> 00:19:00,160
I agree you shouldn't compare,
and this must be clear. However…
236
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,800
Taking this stand,
not giving in,
237
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:08,040
is a continuous fight to improve
conditions on all levels.
238
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,040
That means, the first thing
you have to do in prison
239
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,280
is to take measure
of the place where you are.
240
00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:22,240
You are not in a factory or
in the university or on the street,
241
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:23,120
you are in prison.
242
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:28,960
You have to realize where you are.
If not, you are doomed to failure,
243
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,720
and we have seen
some nasty examples of this.
244
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:37,880
What is very clear is that our
attitude in prison cannot be passive.
245
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,800
Well, of course not!
246
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,480
From that moment on it is not
only a question of withstanding
247
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,040
but of fighting against the violations
of human rights, the humiliations etc.
248
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:56,040
But I agree that our form of fighting
cannot be the same as on the streets.
249
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,560
At any rate,
what we are saying is elementary.
250
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,280
I call it withstanding,
resisting.
251
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:04,776
You call it resistance but
you have to take into account
252
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,400
that some things are similar,
for example:
253
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:12,160
in Burgos there were
penitentiary workshops.
254
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:16,600
We worked in them
as part of our prison term
255
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:22,880
but also for economical reasons,
for us and for our families.
256
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:30,640
Also by working there we did
not lose our identity as workers
257
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:35,520
we posed the same problems
of working hours, salaries...
258
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,800
That was also a fight
259
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,560
even if we applied the forms
that corresponded in prison.
260
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:50,600
I think we are talking
on a very superficial level
261
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,320
because everything
we are saying is obvious.
262
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:59,600
Every militant
and every revolutionary,
263
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,440
wherever he is,
is a fighting front.
264
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:07,200
What interests us now
is to study in depth
265
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,800
the characteristics
of this front line fight.
266
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,440
To talk in depth
about what prison signifies
267
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,000
and how to act inside
in order to resist and,
268
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,640
in any measure possible,
to attack the enemy.
269
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,360
Resisting is a form of attack.
270
00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:29,120
Considering a militant
only as a front line fight
271
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,920
is an ethical consideration
to be valued on that level.
272
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,320
But that clears up
absolutely nothing...
273
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,160
I would like to specify...
274
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,680
I understand
a front line fight
275
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:51,480
to be an offensive such as
a general workers strike
276
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,440
or a general strike
at the university
277
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,640
or both at the same time.
278
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,720
You are then attacking
the enemy to reach a goal,
279
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,320
to improve living conditions
for the working class,
280
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,720
better salaries, etc.
281
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,280
Or to reach better political
and social positions
282
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,200
than the existing ones.
283
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:14,920
For me, this is
an offensive front line fight.
284
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,040
In other words an advance
by occupying enemy territory.
285
00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:23,400
Posing these kinds of demands
is difficult to do in prison.
286
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,240
I think that in prison
287
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:31,800
the point is to make the enemy
recognize us for what we are:
288
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,360
their enemies, a certain kind
of enemies.
289
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,840
Political prisoners.
290
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:50,440
In other words, what we want
to achieve through resistance
291
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,560
is a statute, something
we have asked for many times,
292
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,760
a statute for political prisoners.
293
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,320
They should let us have
this either legally or de facto
294
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,840
as they have done many times.
295
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,520
All of us who have been in prison
know this for a fact.
296
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,720
They have had to accept
a special regime for us.
297
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,560
Sometimes we have asked for it
and sometimes we have recovered it.
298
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:13,840
Right now, in prison,
299
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,840
you can't really start
any political offensive action
300
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,960
to improve political
and social conditions.
301
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,560
What we do in prison
302
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,760
is to improve our conditions as
political prisoners and individuals.
303
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,160
Wait...
304
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,680
And when we can go
on a hunger strike
305
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:38,360
if it is done seriously
and responsibly,
306
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:44,640
after studying and exhausting
every other possibility,
307
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,520
and it is then that men
are reduced
308
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,800
to their most minimal
expression as men
309
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,520
or maybe
as the widest expression.
310
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:59,680
They are men who can do nothing
politically, socially or culturally,
311
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,200
who can do nothing
as a political group
312
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,800
and they respond
to the enemy by saying:
313
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,960
No sir, you can't beat us,
you beat us politically,
314
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,520
you can beat us physically, but
you can't beat us as human beings.
315
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,880
Right, that is what I mean
316
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,240
by going more in depth
into what we are discussing.
317
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,280
Leave aside the tactical
and political questions, etc.
318
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,000
I think there is
another important aspect
319
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:32,440
when I say it is
a front line fight
320
00:24:32,521 --> 00:24:34,600
which is both personal
and collective.
321
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,760
The problem:
Marin - 8 years in prison.
322
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:47,000
He withstood his stay in prison,
he came out whole.
323
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:52,640
Was it only because he had
a very clear political strategy
324
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,321
in regard to his behaviour? No.
325
00:24:55,401 --> 00:24:58,881
It was his day to day
human aspect,
326
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:04,280
his integrity, his resistance,
that defeated the enemy.
327
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,320
This is what I'd like
to go into in depth.
328
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,600
How do you define the situation
of a political prisoner?
329
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:15,400
I'm not referring
to the easy physical aspects:
330
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:20,160
walls, bars, Guardia Civil, etc.
331
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,840
It is something difficult
to explain to others.
332
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,360
It is the dislocation
situation of the individual.
333
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,760
In other words, as soon
as you cross the entrance gate
334
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,440
you enter a completely different
time/space dimension
335
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,920
where you can find practically
336
00:25:39,041 --> 00:25:42,320
no analogy to your previous
experience in life.
337
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,720
At that moment the individual
undergoes a complete break.
338
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,160
A loss of historical proportions.
339
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,600
How then do you define that?
340
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,440
I would dare to say
341
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,640
that what the enemy
wants to do to us in prison
342
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:12,800
is to subdue us,
they use the word "reduce".
343
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,880
Reduce us not only physically
344
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,760
but psychologically, mentally.
345
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:28,600
They want to shrink us,
they want...
346
00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:36,040
There is a good image
347
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:41,680
that reflects their intentions:
348
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,600
a fetus,
349
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,480
which is the image
they want of us.
350
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:58,160
They want the political
prisoner to dry up
351
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:03,800
and leave the prison completely
dried out politically.
352
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,240
Dry him out, depoliticize him.
353
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,560
Then send him back
to his private life, his family,
354
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:18,240
his work, back to productivity
and society.
355
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:19,800
That is the goal.
356
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,000
They want us to forget
about everything.
357
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,600
To leave everything behind.
That is their goal.
358
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,160
One of the policemen I met,
359
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,800
the most efficient one from
the Political-Social Brigade,
360
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,080
from their point of view,
who went into things in depth,
361
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:42,040
wanted to break us,
depoliticize us.
362
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,960
He didn't only want a confession,
363
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,080
or a statement
364
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:54,480
or accusations against other
people and against the regime.
365
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,200
He wanted us to surrender,
to turn ourselves in.
366
00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:07,960
Another worrisome problem which
hasn't been well researched
367
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,080
because in resolving it we resort
to too much dogmatism,
368
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,080
wishing it to go well,
369
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:20,000
is knowing whether repression really
achieves or not its objectives.
370
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,240
In other words, if the majority
of militants, political prisoners,
371
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:31,840
continue as militants
once they get out of prison.
372
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,760
I don't mean giving up
373
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:45,280
their revolutionary beliefs
374
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,321
but rather whether they continue
as active militants
375
00:28:50,401 --> 00:28:59,080
with all the personal
sacrifices this implies.
376
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,400
It worries me because
my personal experience
377
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,880
tells me that in general, and
especially when repression acts
378
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,520
on men and women who have been
in prison for years,
379
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,760
that this repression
achieves a lot.
380
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,840
After having met
hundreds and hundreds of men
381
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,440
who have been in prison
a good number of years,
382
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,600
my experience tells me
that when they get out,
383
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,600
the majority are no longer
actively militant.
384
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:35,280
This is not because
they have lost their beliefs
385
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:41,280
but because they are
no longer in condition,
386
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,560
they are overwhelmed and they
no longer have the capacity.
387
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,760
And not only because of
repression, strictly speaking,
388
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,680
but because of the experience
of having been in prison
389
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,160
and the machinations undergone,
other types of human experiences,
390
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:06,760
a different level of profoundness
in a series of vital relationships
391
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,880
for an individual with things
and people, etc...
392
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,920
This leads the person
to a certain failure
393
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,680
to adapt that is later reflected
once out on the streets.
394
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:24,320
There are those who crack,
who are ignorant of a reality
395
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,640
that incapacitates them
to be politically active
396
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:27,960
and, at the same time,
397
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,640
they are marginalized
to a certain degree,
398
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,120
a product of such an extreme
experience as prison
399
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,920
which also leads them to a certain
type of social conduct that is
400
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,880
contradictory to the requirements
necessary to be active militants.
401
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,400
I would like other opinions
in this regard.
402
00:30:47,601 --> 00:30:57,400
We know these people
are anti-Franco, but...
403
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:09,480
I agree with your clarification
404
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:16,040
but I don't feel
this applies to a majority
405
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:27,480
My experience in jail
demonstrates the exact opposite.
406
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:33,760
Only a minority stop being
politically active.
407
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:43,200
In the time we have spent
together in jail
408
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,520
you should have been able to see
409
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:55,960
that a great majority of those
who have been in there with us
410
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:01,560
have continued to fight once
they are back on the streets.
411
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:07,680
That is my opinion.
412
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,920
As far as my personal
experience goes,
413
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:26,120
I think that those who spend
a relatively short time in prison
414
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:32,840
get back into the fight
much more easily
415
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,920
than those who have been
locked up for a long time.
416
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,000
I think the latter
have a hard time
417
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,040
picking up the rhythm
of the fight again.
418
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:51,120
They is also confronted
with a number of problems.
419
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,280
We've got to remember
420
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,520
that during the 35 years
of Franco's dictatorship
421
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:06,240
some prisoners have done
17, 18, 20 years.
422
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:12,320
Many of them hardly know their
children or their families.
423
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:18,440
I met my daughter
while I was in prison
424
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:23,720
and that is where I met my
daughter's kids, my grandchildren.
425
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,280
So, when a person is freed,
426
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,960
he is confronted with
some very human problems,
427
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,920
there is a moral
commitment involved.
428
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,440
But as far as joining
the fight again,
429
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:44,000
and even though in jail he
has tried to stay in touch,
430
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,600
he is slightly marginalized.
431
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,840
It is hard for him.
432
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,720
I can truthfully say
it has been hard for me
433
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,560
and I am still having trouble
434
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,960
adapting to such a fast
changing situation.
435
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,040
Such a different situation
from 25 years ago.
436
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,320
Those long, long years,
437
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:17,520
revolutionaries condemned
to 10, 20 years...
438
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:22,120
There are studies
that demonstrate
439
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,320
that a sentence
of more than 5 years
440
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:30,560
destroys a person's personality.
441
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:33,800
It marks a person forever
442
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:41,000
and Franco's repression
achieved its objective this way.
443
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,972
So what helps me find my place?
444
00:34:47,701 --> 00:34:50,460
Being able to share my problems.
445
00:34:53,610 --> 00:35:00,280
But after this first phase,
after a while,
446
00:35:06,423 --> 00:35:08,950
Do you think you can
continue to function as before?
447
00:35:09,021 --> 00:35:10,078
No
448
00:35:10,155 --> 00:35:13,033
Do you and others understand you
in the same way?
449
00:35:13,164 --> 00:35:16,337
There the enemy
has achieved what he intended.
450
00:35:16,434 --> 00:35:19,720
They have influenced your
capacity and everything else.
451
00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:32,880
Even when talking, your language
is not as quick as it was before,
452
00:35:33,143 --> 00:35:35,880
apart from the fact
that you are much older.
453
00:35:37,363 --> 00:35:43,080
I think in our discussion
we have been forgetting
454
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,942
an important question which is,
the problems of women in prison.
455
00:35:48,137 --> 00:35:55,000
The problems of these women
have been completely ignored.
456
00:35:55,158 --> 00:35:59,085
There has been talk
of highly incorrect actions
457
00:35:59,206 --> 00:36:03,121
carried out inside
the only women's prison.
458
00:36:03,512 --> 00:36:05,045
There have been criticisms
459
00:36:05,191 --> 00:36:09,583
but no one has ever gone in
depth into these women's situation
460
00:36:09,796 --> 00:36:16,120
and the discrimination demonstrated
by political organizations
461
00:36:16,289 --> 00:36:21,760
towards women
who are serving time.
462
00:36:22,074 --> 00:36:28,360
I think we should go
into why this has happened.
463
00:36:28,893 --> 00:36:31,960
First of all, compared to men
in this situation,
464
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,300
women are a minority.
465
00:36:34,485 --> 00:36:40,400
There are few women
political prisoners.
466
00:36:40,671 --> 00:36:45,000
Secondly, if a woman
is captured, it is accidentally,
467
00:36:45,740 --> 00:36:48,436
usually because of her
relationship with someone.
468
00:36:48,615 --> 00:36:52,258
She is a subsidiary militant.
469
00:36:53,423 --> 00:36:56,226
There are other cases
470
00:36:56,388 --> 00:36:59,660
where the woman
participates politically
471
00:36:59,809 --> 00:37:05,800
and is extremely dedicated,
but when she is imprisoned
472
00:37:06,100 --> 00:37:08,780
she begins to feel
she has been abandoned.
473
00:37:09,053 --> 00:37:14,560
To what extent, women are attended
exclusively from a sentimental aspect.
474
00:37:14,733 --> 00:37:21,040
Even though she receives
hundreds of cards
475
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:27,420
for her birthday
or on May 1st,
476
00:37:27,758 --> 00:37:31,052
she continues to suffer
discrimination.
477
00:37:31,215 --> 00:37:38,400
A discrimination that is a reflect
of the subsidiary aspect
478
00:37:38,634 --> 00:37:43,320
of the revolutionary woman
479
00:37:43,846 --> 00:37:46,000
Maybe this is beginning
to be recognized,
480
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,560
but there is still
a long way to go.
481
00:37:48,830 --> 00:37:54,300
regarding female militancy,
regarding the revolutionary woman.
482
00:37:54,649 --> 00:37:57,240
We have found that
483
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,840
for more than two years,
news has been sporadic.
484
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,618
The type of information
received was triumphalist,
485
00:38:03,716 --> 00:38:09,000
which is gratifying emotionally
but serves no other purpose
486
00:38:09,201 --> 00:38:12,220
and lacks any kind
of information
487
00:38:12,404 --> 00:38:14,180
about the ongoing fight
on the outside.
488
00:38:14,288 --> 00:38:17,880
The repercussions of this
are serious in two ways:
489
00:38:18,042 --> 00:38:20,360
first because it verifies
490
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,340
a degradation
of revolutionary militancy.
491
00:38:23,730 --> 00:38:27,461
It is a lack of connection
492
00:38:27,608 --> 00:38:31,088
with the general outline
of the fight
493
00:38:31,300 --> 00:38:34,922
and a lack of perspective
of a revolutionary future.
494
00:38:35,077 --> 00:38:38,043
This means that many times
the sanctions in prison
495
00:38:38,210 --> 00:38:43,160
expose us to visceral situations
due to a lack of perspective
496
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,414
at all political levels.
497
00:38:45,568 --> 00:38:47,920
And, in addition,
this produces after effects
498
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,241
on that person
when she is released.
499
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,159
It affects her reincorporation to the
revolutionary fight on the streets.
500
00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,600
However, in spite of all
the enemy's repressive action,
501
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,800
what the enemy has not
achieved in most cases
502
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:11,600
is to make the revolutionary
militant forget his principles,
503
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,120
not while he is in prison
nor when he gets out.
504
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:21,800
I can say, from my own experience,
that one of the things
505
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,920
that has helped me the most
when released prison,
506
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,800
has been my contact with reality,
507
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:35,120
which even though we tried
to be informed in prison,
508
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,600
is not the same thing
as being there physically.
509
00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:41,560
What has been
decisive in my case
510
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,640
has been not only contact with
the veterans in this fight,
511
00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:48,920
with whom I was able
to establish contact,
512
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,880
but also the new generations.
513
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,440
The new generations
that had joined the fight.
514
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:12,480
Observing them I felt like this was
something we had contributed to.
515
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,600
Forgive me.
516
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,760
It was just a small
contribution that resulted
517
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:24,040
in the mountain of changes
in which we find ourselves.
518
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,760
As I say, that has been
decisive for me
519
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:38,080
and I insist that except in very
exceptional cases of desertion,
520
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:43,520
in general a man, in spite of
having spent years in jail,
521
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,080
does not lose
his revolutionary principles
522
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:53,560
and the enemy cannot achieve this
in spite of his repression.
523
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,200
I'll tell you something,
524
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,160
I think,
525
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:09,560
the enemy, at times, is able
to defeat an individual, 10, 100,
526
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:17,280
corners them, depoliticizes them,
which is its fundamental objective,
527
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:24,160
turns them away, keeps them aside
and they go back to private life.
528
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:32,680
But what the enemy has not
achieved, up to now,
529
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:39,640
is to break, eliminate,
the causes, the reasoning
530
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:45,440
for which we,
and the future generations,
531
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,760
have and will go to prison.
532
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:55,840
The enemy can defeat an individual,
2, 20, 200, or whatever,
533
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,240
- but not the cause.
- Exactly.
534
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:05,720
When we get out of prison, we can
be better or worse, or whatever,
535
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:12,520
but we do find one thing:
the struggle continues,
536
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:19,160
and that is our victory
and the enemy's defeat.
537
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:27,080
In my contact with the new
generations and other people,
538
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,600
they always ask me
the same question.
539
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:40,200
After explaining my experience,
my 25 years in prison and all that,
540
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,240
they ask me:
"Well, Narciso,
541
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,800
after so much suffering
and so many years in jail,
542
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:55,040
what do you think of your
sacrifice, was it worth it?"
543
00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:01,880
I have always given the same
sincere answer and I still do.
544
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,720
All those sacrifices were worth it
when I see all the changes
545
00:43:05,801 --> 00:43:09,480
and the situation
I am living in right now.
546
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:15,160
Because, in a way, we feel
we have contributed
547
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,480
in small measure perhaps,
but we have contributed.
548
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:23,360
In my ten years in prison
I have maintained
549
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,480
and experimented a series
of unforgettable,
550
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,360
personal experiences,
much more profound
551
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,440
than anything
I ever felt when I was free.
552
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,440
And not simply
the most pleasant ones.
553
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,360
I have felt the deepest fear.
554
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,640
I have felt the greatest boredom.
555
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,520
I have been annoyed
beyond belief.
556
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,520
In prison you masturbate with
an incredibly emotional depth,
557
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,800
letting your imagination
run to the limit
558
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,720
and it was the same
when I was reading
559
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,360
or imagining trips
while in punishment cells.
560
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:05,240
I never thought man's imagination
could reach so far.
561
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:10,640
I have seen comrades, friends,
people give everything they've got
562
00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:13,640
like I have rarely seen
on the outside.
563
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,760
I mean I have undergone
unforgettable moments.
564
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,880
Of course it would be stupid
to deduce from all this
565
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,560
that prison is the best
of all possible worlds.
566
00:44:23,660 --> 00:44:28,840
Well, after such a nostalgic song
to a lost world, I would also like
567
00:44:28,930 --> 00:44:30,696
to say something.
I don't think a revolutionary
568
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:33,320
discovers his enthusiasm
for life in prison.
569
00:44:33,431 --> 00:44:37,160
One of the things I consider
absolutely essential
570
00:44:37,339 --> 00:44:42,400
in the revolutionary fight
is an enthusiasm for life.
571
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:47,360
Passion, energy.
And this is previous to prison.
572
00:44:47,485 --> 00:44:51,176
In any case, what helps you
discover human potential in prison,
573
00:44:51,241 --> 00:44:54,520
both in its positive
and negative aspects,
574
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,600
is precisely this enthusiasm,
this passion.
575
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,160
And it continues afterwards.
576
00:44:59,327 --> 00:45:02,528
If it doesn't then
we had better give up
577
00:45:02,663 --> 00:45:06,143
because you then become
a melancholy ascetic,
578
00:45:06,580 --> 00:45:08,500
you turn into something
absolutely negative.
579
00:45:10,678 --> 00:45:11,740
What do you think?
580
00:45:16,225 --> 00:45:18,500
It isn't just some moments
when you feel a vocation.
581
00:45:19,579 --> 00:45:21,640
You can't live on a memory
582
00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:24,920
or on what is good
and beautiful in prison.
583
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,480
30 years later
584
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,280
But unfortunately we didn't foresee,
is the day that we were to come here,
585
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,720
It is just the day that they execute,
that the sentence is fulfilled against Puig Antich
586
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,320
In the Barcelona Model
applying the garrote vil.
587
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,440
There was a lot of
mobilization around this
588
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,640
and the police were very attentive.
589
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,200
Next year will be 30 years,
this was in 1974.
590
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,160
I swear it's that one!
Look at it!
591
00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:40,640
He's down here.
592
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,080
I came with Jordi Cunill
and Pere Joan Ventura.
593
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:52,520
One of the most important things
is to have the slightest information
594
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,280
in case you are arrested.
595
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,136
That is, one of the keys to being able
to say that you did not know anything
596
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,400
Is that you only know, exclusively,
to get here, what concerns you directly
597
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:02,840
And if they asked me now
598
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,240
How did they arrive?
How did the material come first?
599
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,761
And how did people come?
600
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,560
Which in this case
were the express protagonists.
601
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:11,840
Well I do not know.
602
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,160
But everyone came phase in.
603
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:16,960
You see, the kitchen here, look at it!
604
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:19,520
With drawings...
605
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:21,520
They were here.
606
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,960
Here is this window that
I shoot while preparing...
607
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:26,800
I remember very well,
608
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,640
We had very good light
and we made a frame here.
609
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:30,800
I said: listen,
610
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,040
Let's try this topic,
If it seems okay, but from within.
611
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,680
The interlocutors at least all,
Had two years in prison.
612
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:46,120
But it's not about making a kind of...
Unloaded strong, very immediate,
613
00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:50,480
Is to try to touch the problems
with the distance that allows being from here,
614
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:55,400
And put what are the elements
that most harm the individual in this case,
615
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,400
As subject subject in a State,
that is not of right, that is a dictatorship
616
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,720
And that by the own ideas
is confined in a prison
617
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:06,600
like the ones at that time.
618
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:11,920
Also a nice thing about them,
is that they do not make one, they are not tearful,
619
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,160
They are not explaining that
they suffered much, etc.
620
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,240
This is splendid on their part,
they are fighters.
621
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,080
They were fighting inside the prison,
these, they were fighting!
622
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,520
They had punishment cells...
623
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,240
And here when they go out,
they are talking about fighting.
624
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,440
And the day that Puig Antich was killed,
we met here,
625
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,360
And they, the first thing they said,
is that the best we could do,
626
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:39,320
It was this filming, as a gesture of solidarity,
it was the best thing that could be done for liberties.
627
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,000
And we went ahead,
628
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,360
We forget the pressure
of the police and end point.
629
00:49:55,805 --> 00:49:59,285
Oriol Arau's office,
lawyer of Salvador Puig Antich
630
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,480
Well, this is dossier
number 68 from 1973,
631
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,680
which corresponds
to Salvador Puig Antich.
632
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,320
Although actually, to get
a better view of this affair
633
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,960
perhaps it would be best to have
the file we keep in our office.
634
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,880
This is a file
that we call economic file…
635
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,880
just a minute… sixty eight,
636
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,280
well, these are files that we keep
637
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,120
for our internal organization
638
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:39,240
and these give us all the steps taken
639
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,800
in regard to the client and any matters
we have taken care of:
640
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:47,840
visiting the courts, written documents,
visits in jail, interviews…
641
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,800
Of course, in these files,
642
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,160
apart from the economic question,
643
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:57,720
we also have a complete day to day summary
of what is done about the matter in hand.
644
00:50:57,881 --> 00:51:01,960
Once the case is finished,
we cancel the file and it is filed away.
645
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,200
Would you please read the conclusion?
646
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,920
We are now in 1974
647
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:12,680
We begin on January 8
648
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,640
with a visit to the prison
by Mr. Condomines, the lawyer.
649
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,320
January 9, a visit to the military government.
650
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:22,200
February 10, a visit to the prison
and an interview with the director.
651
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:26,960
February 11, we attend a hearing
at the Supreme Council of Military Justice.
652
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,400
February 12,
Visit to the Supreme Council of Justice.
653
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,920
Interview with the lawyer,
Mr. Garcia Trebijano.
654
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,480
March 1, Dispatch from the Military Government
655
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:41,200
the discharge of the Government met
in a decision-making cabinet meeting.
656
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,040
Visit to the prison and
informing Salvador of his sentence.
657
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,360
Spent all night in the prison.
658
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,720
Three visits to the Bar Association.
659
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,600
March 2, at twenty minutes to ten
the sentence is carried out.
660
00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:55,080
Death of Salvador.
661
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:56,440
Visit to the cemetery.
662
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,760
Informing the Bar Association.
663
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,920
March 3, attending the burial is prohibited.
664
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,520
March 7, attending the funeral ceremony.
665
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:09,560
March 8, the matter is accepted as finalized
and it is filed away.
666
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,400
Forty-four years later
667
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,416
The Generalitat de Catalunya has been taken over
by the Government of the State
668
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,000
as a result of applying Article 155
of the Spanish Constitution,
669
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,000
based, according to the resolution
of the Council of Ministers, on:
670
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,000
“Manifest, stubborn and deliberate non-compliance
671
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,000
by the highest governmental
and parliamentary institutions,
672
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,000
involving rebellious, systematic
and knowing disobedience,
673
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,000
seriously affecting Spain’s general interests.
674
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:56,000
The Government of the Nation
is authorised to proceed
675
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,040
to remove the President
of the Generalitat de Catalunya,
676
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,056
the Vice-president and the members of parliament
forming the Government Council.
677
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,000
After this removal has been ordered,
678
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:07,000
the administration
of the Generalitat de Catalunya
679
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,000
shall act on the instructions
of the bodies or authorities
680
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,016
created or designated
by the Government of the Nation.”
681
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,400
Extract from the resolution
of the Council of Ministers,
682
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,000
signed by the president of the Government,
Mariano Rajoy.
683
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:20,000
Today, 25 January 2018,
these political and judicial measures,
684
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,000
amongst others,
have entailed the order
685
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,000
for imprisonment of the President
of the Generalitat de Catalunya,
686
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,400
of the members of parliament
in his cabinet,
687
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,000
of part of the Parliament bureau,
688
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,000
of the presidents of the civic organisations
ANC and Ă’mnium Cultural
689
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,000
and the investigation
of hundreds of persons.
56354