Original subtitles

[ Protestors chanting ]

-All persons must immediately leave the area.

[ Indistinct shouting ]

[ Gunshot ]

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

[ Indistinct shouting ]

- Whose streets? - Our streets!

-Whose streets?

- Our streets! - Whose streets?

- Our streets! - Whose streets?

-The killing of George Floyd sparked protests

in the United States, with millions of Americans

showing up against police brutality.

In the weeks after Floyd's death,

daytime demonstrations turned to nighttime uprisings,

or looting and riots, depending on who's telling the story.

According to President Trump,

there was one place to lay the blame.

-The violence and vandalism is being led by Antifa.

-Hardly a new phenomenon,

Trump and his surrogates have pointed to an Antifa threat

since the protests and unrest on his inauguration day in 2017.

-America is waking up to the menace of Antifa.

[ Indistinct shouting ]

-Radical, leftist, Antifa thugs.

-I was walking on the street, and this guy, like,

sucker-punched me in the back of the head.

-Tonight, growing questions

about who may be under those masks.

-There are no hard figures

as to how many people count themselves members of Antifa.

-They've got clubs, and they've got everything, Antifa!

-On May 31st, Trump announced that he would list

Antifa as domestic terrorists,

but with no official leadership or official organization,

even the the Department of Justice

has struggled to identify who or what Antifa is.

-Antifa can be best thought of, I think, as a umbrella term

for what is essentially a movement

comprised of loosely organized groups around the country.

-In Portland, birthplace

of the modern antifascist movement in the US,

the Trump administration deployed federal agents

to suppress and, in some cases, abduct protesters,

a move that led to escalating tensions in the streets.

-What starts 2 months ago as protests against

police brutality has now become a nightly ritual.

-53 days, 7 1/2 weeks,

Portland, Oregon, has been burning.

-And that made it a good place to start to try to figure out

what this Antifa thing is all about.

Most of the chaotic scenes on the news

all come from a 2-block area

in front of the Portland Justice Center.

-A lot of battles against the right wing

have gone down right here.

This is our square.

- Who is the, "our"? - The people.

-Okay.

-Anybody who opposes fascism because they line up over there,

so when we face off,

this is where we face off across the street from them.

-I see.

Luis Marquez has been a fixture

at leftist protests here for years

and embraces the direct action Trump has focused on

when characterizing the Antifa threat.

And this is Homeland Security right here?

-That's the Fed right there.

So... this is the Justice Center.

The police like to...

Portland police come out of here.

They'll put snipers up top, right there.

These are gun ports that the Portland Police

that are in here will open up to shoot protesters.

- That's kind of... up. - It's super... up.

-When it comes to antifascism and the idea of Antifa,

some people really don't know who the hell you guys are

and what it is that you do or even if you do exist.

-You're using this word, "you," right?

So antifascism is a philosophy.

Right?

So there is no, say, national Antifa group.

Right? There are a bunch of friends

that identify with this philosophy of no fascism,

of everybody being free,

of people being equal, of rights being upheld.

-So then if you subscribe to the philosophy,

then you are Antifa? - Yes.

-So then you would be Antifa?

-Sure, okay, but I belong to no group.

Right? So it makes sense... No...

-But you see how confusing this shit can be, right?

-Well, yeah, but it's like being a Christian

but just, like, not belonging to a church, so...

-But then you are a Christian, still.

-All right. Yeah, okay.

-So you... So for the sake of this interview, you're Antifa.

-There we go. All right. There we go, boom.

-So as an antifascist,

you say that, you know,

you all play a protective role.

Specifically, you have played a protective role.

- Yes, sir. - In what way?

-I have not allowed Proud Boys, neofascists, nativists or Nazis

to come into our crowds, period.

- And have they refused? - Some.

-And then what?

What does that mean? [ Laughs ]

-We dance.

- You dance a little bit? - We talk.

We have a rap battle. It's all spoken word.

-Well, now you are directly fighting the state

on these grounds where,

you know, federal troopers are here,

and you guys are confronting them.

-Fascism has to be confronted wherever you find it,

whether it's some stupid mother[bleep]

rocking the Confederate battle flag or federal troops.

Fascism is fascism.

-Okay, somebody understands fascism,

and they're like, "Yeah, I'm against that."

- Mm-hmm. - "But wait a minute,

this dude is going around slapping Nazis in the face.

I don't know if that's me."

-Antifascism is broad.

You don't have to do what I do to be antifascist.

You have to say, "Hey, not accepting the people

for who they are, not giving them

the opportunities that another group has,

that's fascist."

And if you are against those things, then you're antifascist.

-Luis sees racism and structural injustice

underneath the broad umbrella of fascism in America.

Like him, many we spoke to were reluctant to identify

under a single banner of Antifa,

making it hard to associate any individual's actions

to an official group.

Meanwhile, the Trump administration

has consistently described

a coordinated onslaught of violence.

We spoke to historian Mark Bray to set the record straight.

So I am kind of on a journey

to figure out who or what Antifa is.

-Great, well, you came to the right place.

- That's what I'm saying. - Yeah.

-And you being the author of "The Handbook,"

I just got to ask, is Antifa even real?

-Yeah. Yeah, it is, but not in the way

that Donald Trump says it is, so Antifa is short

for antifascist in a bunch of different languages,

and it's not one specific group or organization

with a headquarters or a CEO.

If you do the kinds of activities or organize a group

that basically aims to shut down the far right

in one way or another, you're basically Antifa.

The history of antifascism in general goes back 100 years.

People are generally more familiar with opposition

to Hitler and Mussolini.

What people know less about is how after World War II,

the question became, how to make sure

that you don't get another holocaust

or another Mussolini in power.

A great example is Britain, where right after the war ends,

Oswald Mosley, who organized the British Union of Fascists

in the 1930s, gets out of prison.

He starts a new movement.

Doesn't call it fascist, but it is fascist,

and it's really anti-Semitic.

So this group of Jewish World War II veterans,

which calls themselves the 43 Group, says,

"We're not going to let this happen at home

after we fought the Nazis."

So they just organized to physically disrupt

these fascist, anti-Semitic meetings,

and they're successful.

In a couple of years, Mosley's movement falls apart.

-When you say, "physically disrupt,"

what are we doing?"

-They would beat the crap out of the fascists.

These were guys who... - They're the real deal.

-They saw their people almost exterminated.

-Take that model and fast-forward to 2020.

Like, I've seen videos of, like,

Antifa folks going around punching Nazis in the face.

I mean, it seems like that would be personally cathartic,

but is it good for the movement?

-That's the interesting debate over the last few years, is,

"Does physical confrontation with the far right help them

or hurt them, or is it irrelevant?"

Right? And I think that on its own,

if that were all that these folks were doing,

that would be insufficient

and not necessarily all that important,

but I think if you look at the history,

you can see that the overall goal is to make it

so that being a Nazi or being a fascist

is personally, economically and socially untenable.

Physical confrontation is part of the repertoire,

but it's not the most commonly used tactic.

More often, Antifa groups will succeed by doxing the far right,

exposing who they are, getting them fired.

It's this notion that we don't let them have the streets.

We don't let them normalize their politics.

No matter the size, they need to be stopped as soon as possible.

-This summer, antifascists turned their tactics

for combatting the far right

towards openly combatting the US government.

When the federal crackdown in Portland happened,

it galvanized the city.

Two months in, what were becoming dwindling protests

turned into growing nightly gatherings

bringing all sorts of folks into the fray.

-No justice, no peace!

Take it to the streets to fuck the police.

No justice, no peace! - So here are the protests.

There's a lot of Black Lives Matter chants

because that's what this protest is about.

I'm sure that Antifa is here.

I mean, most of these people are antifascists,

I would think, but in terms of, like,

the formal Antifa folks, I don't know where they are.

-Let's go!

-So the moms can be right here where they want to be.

-Let's go, all the moms!

[ Indistinct shouting ]

-Portland, we got work to do.

[ Cheers and applause ]

We will revolutionize what community safety looks like.

[ Cheers and applause ]

We will not fail. - No!

-We will not fail. [ Cheers and applause ]

-We will not fail. We will not fail.

-When this shit gets wild, you got my back?

[ Indistinct shouting ]

-I said, who's got my back?

-I got your back!

-Black Lives Matter!

-When you see white folks in all black throwing water bottles

over the barricade at federal troops,

do you feel like that takes away

from the focus of Black Lives Matter?

-No. There's four levels when it comes to protesting,

and one of those levels is rioting,

so there has to be some form of violence,

but when there's no narrative to go with that,

then that's the problem.

-If you think antifascism is terrorism,

that's exactly what fascists fuck do.

That's exactly what fucking Hitler did.

He fucking quelled all that fucking rage.

He got rid of all the politicians that opposed him.

The... is Trump doing right now?

I got... I got all the plates on.

I got... You know, we both got plates on.

We're ready to go. We're defending ourselves.

-Yeah, I'm dressed in black and armored up and stuff right now,

but, you know, I'm not part of "Antifa" or whatever.

-What would you say Antifa is?

-I would say that Antifa is, in large part,

a right-wing boogeyman at this point.

-Where's Antifa?

-Everywhere, brah.

Everyone here is antifascist.

Do you hear... That's the cops, yeah?

Get your mask.

That's the cops. - All right.

If he says the feds are pulling up with tear gas,

I believe him, so I'm about to put my mask on.

-I mean, what we heard was we heard

the police announce to disperse. - Okay.

-Everything generally comes right after that.

- Right. - All right? So...

-Night after night in Portland, this has been the pattern.

The marches and speeches end, and the chaos begins.

Luis took us to the front.

♪♪

- No justice! - No peace!

-No justice!

- No peace! - No j... [ Coughs ]

-No peace!

-No peace!

-Right now...

there's tear gas in the air,

and federal troops.

I want to jiggle back,

and Luis is going straight to the front!

-No justice! No peace!

[ Rhythmic banging ]

-Damn! Ugh!

-Shit!

[ Explosion ]

-This is the Federal Protective Service.

[ Indistinct shouting ]

-I was there when it was people chanting

and giving speeches peacefully,

and, bro, in a matter of 10 to 15 minutes, it turned to bedlam.

-Nothing changed.

Nothing changed, except for the pigs.

I told you. I was like, "Get your mask on."

Y'all was like, "What?"

It's like, it's about to happen.

-So what's next?

-Tonight?

-Yeah.

-We go back.

- Shit. - Let's go.

- You hear that? - We're having an issue.

-You hear that? It's back on.

We just got out of it!

We going back in. What'd you say?

-These are an interesting time of asking questions, man.

Like, "Where are the cops?" We get shot.

"What's next?" There's a boom.

-[ Laughs ]

♪♪

♪♪

-Another day.

-Another day, ready to go make our voices heard.

How you doing? - My knee hurts.

- I'm bruised up on the side. - Oh, did you... You got got?

-Yeah, I got a couple shots.

When you did! - Oh.

-I got hit, and then I saw that flashbang

and I got hit in the side of the head.

-Yeah, I remember that. I remember that.

-So you want to see something?

-I don't know. What you got for me to see?

-I got something.

So...

-This dude... This dude is full of surprises.

[ Metal clanking ]

Bro, what the...

-This is what they've been using to shoot us.

- What are these, souvenirs? - Yeah.

These are CS cannisters.

These are the cannisters that shoot us.

This is chain-ball CS.

You can feel the pellets in that.

Right, that's this one.

-Wait... Oh, that's what...

This is what I got shot with last night?

-Yeah, yeah. Let me show you one last thing.

-What is this?

The dude got a museum of the protests.

Bro, man, what? - That's a live grenade.

-Man, put that shit back in the car, man

- That's what... - See, I'm cool with these

because they've been used already, but you...

I'm not even going to touch that.

-That's what these are right there, right. You see?

And then they pull the pin, throw them, and it breaks apart.

That's what they're deploying on United States citizens

that are out there saying Black lives matter.

-What I witnessed last night was crazy.

- It's insane. - Yeah.

-Now, it started off

as a peaceful protest led by Black folks...

- Mm-hmm. - Leading chants

of "Black Lives Matter."

Then it turned into mofos trying to breakdown the barricade

at the federal building, right?

- Mm-hmm. - And they didn't come out

until you guys were out there provoking them.

It's like... It's almost like you guys are feeding each other

because you don't want the troops here,

so you go fight them.

When you go fight them, Trump says,

"This is the reason why the troops are there,

because you guys are fighting them."

And in that tit-for-tat, this cat-and-mouse game

between you guys and the federal troops,

folks over there at Black Lives Matter are like,

"Yo, we still here, homie.

What you guys doing ain't about us."

-I hear that.

I, too, am a person of color, right.

I don't tell you how to fight.

Don't tell me how to fight.

Right.

We're all working towards the same goal.

- Mm-hmm. - Right?

Different streams, different rivers all go to the same ocean.

They're all necessary, all tactics,

but if you want to look at the timeline of Portland,

we were wrapping up.

We were ready to go home.

We're not the ones that sent the feds here,

snatching people off the street, citizens.

That's what made people come back out.

-Mm-hmm.

-That's what brought your moms out.

That's what brought your veterans out.

-Can we talk just, like, candidly about last night, bro?

-Sure.

-At one point you were anticipating the federal troops

were getting ready to fire on us again,

and you and some other folks were just dancing.

- Yeah. - As if you were excited.

-Yeah.

Look, I mean, this is a... bullet, bro.

You know those guns that you saw yesterday?

-Yes, bro. This...

-That's what they put in that shot you.

That don't make you mad?

-Yeah, it makes me a little pissed, bro.

-If we go home, we say it's okay to do this shit.

If you get shot with this and you're like,

"Okay, I give up,"

what do you think the next time they're going to do?

And the time after that? And the time after that?

You have to.

Am I nervous when we know they're going to rush?

Yup, and do I have that energy and do I...

Is that why I bounce?

Yup, but what else do you do before you potentially die?

Why not dance?

Because what do I have compared to this?

What do I have compared to any of this?

Nothing.

-Not all antifascists are the same.

Luis embodies the direct-action strategy known as black bloc,

geared mostly towards physical confrontation

and the stereotypical black uniforms,

but many choose to participate in other ways.

PopMob is a group of Portland activists

pushing a different aesthetic.

- "Every day, any fascist," is kind of,

like, our catchphrase

because we're trying to encourage people

to see beyond just, like, this one stereotype

about what an antifascist looks like.

Anybody could be an antifascist...

Parents, schoolteachers,

food-service workers, healthcare workers.

We are your neighbors.

We are the people sitting next to you on the bus.

We are all over the place, and we are everybody.

Like, we're just normal people, and that most of our time

is spent doing things like having meetings.

Like, oh, my god, so many meetings.

I spend hours of my life in meetings,

and that is the work that is so invisibilized.

-So what about, like, the...

You know, the folks that are in the organization

that are a bit more moderate,

that look at the direct-action strategic folks,

and they're like, "Do you have to, like,

slap these white supremacists in the face?

Do you have to always fight?

Like, that's not doing the movement any good."

-Actually, that is the kind of perception

that we are actively trying to push against.

It is a tactic of the state to do things like that,

to perpetuate that

good-protester/bad-protester narrative

as a way to disrupt thriving movements

because we are a threat to their power,

and so by perpetuating that rhetoric

and, like, pitting us against each other,

then it takes the focus off of them,

and then the infighting takes the energy away

from working together

to fight towards the things that we actually want.

They all fall under an umbrella, which we often talk about,

like diversity of tactics. - Mm-hmm.

-That black bloc is our front lines,

and they are our community defense and they protect us,

and we are safe coming out here because they are there,

and that is a narrative that's never communicated.

-Why do you think there's so much confusion

and misunderstanding

as to what Antifa is and how you guys operate?

-I think that up until a couple years ago,

a lot of people had never heard the term Antifa.

- Right. - And so their first exposure

to it has been through what they saw on the news,

and what they've seen on TV

and what they've seen on the Internet,

which started with a lot of these counterprotests

of these far-right groups that were springing up

after the election, and even before the election,

and so that dichotomy and that conflict

was basically born out of the news coverage,

and the news coverage was overwhelmingly

footage of, like, fights and violence.

I often say that like 98% of what we do

doesn't even happen in the streets.

-All right. I should be good to go.

-Emily Gorcenski is an activist

whose antifascist work increased

after the 2017 Unite the Right rally

where she lived in Charlottesville.

With her Internet sleuthing skills,

she started doxing white nationalists.

Basically, she identifies racists at these rallies

and publicly puts them on blast for the world to see.

-Myself and other antifascist activists

have exposed middle-school teachers.

We have exposed civil servants.

We've exposed people in government.

We've exposed people that work at restaurants, right.

These are people that you will encounter on a day-to-day basis.

-How many is it of you guys doing this kind of work?

-You know, there's no official network.

We're not colluding with anyone. We're not coordinating.

I look at things that affect my life.

I look at people who came to Charlottesville.

- Whose streets? - Our streets!

-Whose streets?

- Our streets! - Whose streets?

- Our streets! - Whoo!

-When the Unite the Right rally was being organized,

most of this planning was being done over Discord,

which is a sort of chat service that's popular among gamers,

and so all of these planning chats were exposed.

And one of these characters was this guy

that called himself Tyrone,

but what's interesting about Tyrone is that he was asking,

"Was it okay in Virginia to hit people with your car

if they're standing in the street?"

And so that put him on my radar,

and so I read through all of these chats.

There is one message that stuck out,

so this image here was unique,

so I went here and just did a Google search for this image.

So when you look for this image,

you get all of these news stories,

and one of them that comes up is that these US Marines

are arrested at a Confederate rally,

Joseph Warner Manning and Michael Joseph Chesny.

So I do some looking into Michael Joseph Chesny,

and so now we have a name and a face,

but I don't know that this is who Tyrone is,

so I do a little bit more digging to figure out

what is Tyrone all about.

So he posts this message

about reversing white genocide two at a time.

It's a baby announcement and it looks like they're having twins,

and then I look a little bit more closely

and I sort of notice his hairline,

and then I look at this guy, and it's like, okay, well,

that's not proof in and of itself,

but it's pretty damn close.

So, you know, I pop over to Twitter,

and, sure enough, he's got four daughters,

and okay, here is his wife, so I go to the Facebook,

and it says how she's having twins

and she's got four kids and, you know, all of this stuff.

And so now I'm thinking, "Okay, now we've got Tyrone."

And, you know, here he is.

He's a United States Marine with explosives training.

-Emily posted her work uncovering Chesny's identity

on Twitter, and included the receipts.

Weeks later, he was officially discharged from the Marines.

What do you say to the folks that are like,

"Look, I'm just a white dude that's proud of my race.

I go to a rally. Is that a crime?"

-You know, if you're proud of your heritage, good for you.

That's your business.

I don't think that a lot of these guys are,

per se, violent actors.

It's maybe the 1%,

but those 1% are propped up by the other 99%,

and that's why we can't allow that to be, you know, unchecked.

-Antifascists are fighting what they consider

to be fascism on many fronts.

They see an authoritarian presence

in the White House suppressing our position

by sending federal troops to Portland,

and from the same seat of leadership

comes a stoking of racist flames

by not only refusing to acknowledge

the increasing threat of white nationalism,

but going so far as to say

that there are good people on both sides.

The side of white nationalism in the South cherishes

their Confederate monuments, which became a flash point

between the far right and antifascists this summer.

-New at 11, a CBS 46 exclusive.

And this weekend, protesters and counterprotesters

are schedule to descend upon Stone Mountain Park.

-At least 2,000 militia members

are set to storm Stone Mountain Saturday.

-At nine stories tall, Stone Mountain

is the largest monument to the Confederacy,

and in the past, it's been a meeting spot for the Klan.

-To protect the Black nation!

-On July 4th, it was the site

of an armed March by an all-Black militia,

prompting a counter-rally in August

made up of antigovernment militias

like the Three Percenters

and right-wing groups like American Patriot USA,

led by known white supremacist

and former Klan leader Chester Doles.

Monica Johnson works with F.L.O.W.E.R.,

a coalition of antiracist groups,

including Atlanta Antifascists

that tracks and disrupts white-supremacist rallies.

-We're planning to hopefully outnumber the racists

and show that Georgia isn't this place

where they could just come unopposed,

and march on public space

and kind of instill fear in various communities,

so we're there to outnumber to show that there is a...

There's a different tide.

- So you in the streets? - Yeah, I guess.

- You're a fighter. - "Alleged," yeah.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Would you call yourself Antifa?

-No, because I don't think it's really real.

I don't think there's many people

that would call themselves Antifa

unless they're being a little ironic.

-So why do you think folks that are doing antifascist work

like yourself just do not want to be associated

with this title, "Antifa"?

-Well, it's really just a boogeyman.

It's not something that describes the vast majority

of people doing work for a sustained amount of time.

Antifa is this thing kind of conjured up,

and the ideas of many reactionaries or right-wingers,

of people who just want to go and destroy,

and so that doesn't describe me.

-The call to defend the monument went out across social media,

and thousands responded online, but when the time came,

only a handful of armed supporters showed up,

compared to over 150 counterprotesters

and antifascists.

On top of that,

the local authorities denied them their permit,

so the demonstrations took place outside the park entirely.

[ Indistinct talking ]

[ Cheers and applause ]

-Hell yeah!

-Five years ago,

we made a strikeout against Stone Mountain,

and it was a little bit lonely.

I'm not lonely anymore.

[ Cheers and applause ]

-I got friends!

I got friends. Let us stay together.

-Over 30 different groups

signed on to the F.L.O.W.E.R. coalition

and what they call the Unite Against Hate counter-rally.

Atlanta's NAACP chapter was one of the partners

and has been advocating for the removal

of Confederate monuments for years.

-When you pass that mountain and you see that

and you know what it stands for,

if you have one Dylann Roof

come from visiting that mountain, it's one too many.

-It didn't take long for the counterprotesters

to directly confront the armed militia members.

- You're a traitor. - Stand here with a traitor...

-You wouldn't tell a man that!

Because you better not level off the streets

and run into a Vietnam vet

because they all are going to see you!

You walk where I tell you!

-You ain't talking, traitor.

No, you're going to listen to a veteran, traitor.

You're going to listen to somebody that actually

fought for this country.

-You don't talk to me anytime you want to, fool.

-You don't talk that way with me again!

Because I will beat your fucking ass, and you know it.

You know it!

-When this rally started, there were about 15 white nationalists

about 10 feet behind me,

and they were standing there growling,

but right now, the counter-rally protesters

are not respecting their space at all, as you can see.

-Go home!

Go home, racists! Go home!

Go home, racists! Go home!

Go home, racists! Go home!

Go home, racists! Go home!

-Take your ass out! Take your ass out!

Take your ass out!

-It seems that you guys have a much more

overwhelming force than they do.

Do you think that's indicative of how the country

is going in terms of suppressing that sort of ideology?

-You know, I think about this all the time,

and it's pretty obvious here.

Like, they've got the guns,

but we've got the numbers and, like, literally guns.

-I mean, you guys have got some guns, too.

-We got some guns, too.

- Yeah. - Yeah.

-Do you consider what you guys are doing here to be part of,

like, Antifa and antifascism?

-I think more people are not joining groups,

and not saying like, "Oh, I'm joining this one group."

Everybody is more disseminated,

and I think that's scarier for fascists.

-Black Lives Matter!

-After pushing the initial group back,

the counterprotesters marched through the town

as a show of force, leading to more confrontations.

- No fascists here! - No fascists here!

[ Indistinct chanting ]

- Go home! - I'm at home!

I'm at home! I'm at home! Woo!

[ Indistinct shouting ]

-That... took my hat!

He took my fricking hat! He took my fricking hat!

[ Indistinct shouting ]

-As antifascist protests escalated across the country,

Republican lawmakers and the Trump administration

deflected a conversation about systematic racism

by focusing on violence and destruction

they associated with Antifa.

-Tell that to the people of Portland who've seen Antifa

for 53 days, rioting, looting,

stealing, destroying property.

-One of the loudest refrains

came from Ohio Republican Jim Jordan,

ranking member on the judiciary committee

and one of Trump's biggest cheerleaders

pushing for law and order.

-You've said on occasion that Antifa

is a terrorist organization.

Do you believe that?

-I think that's an appropriate term,

and so, again, it was first

used by the president of the United States.

The Attorney General called them terrorists,

radical, violent, extremist.

That's pretty strong language

from the chief law enforcement officer of our country.

-What should citizens do

when they vehemently disagree with the law?

-Shouldn't be violence.

-What should they do?

-Participate in the system, the greatest system ever!

-What happens when that system doesn't work for Black, brown

and gay people or trans people?

-I just disagree with that premise.

-But, Congressman...

Black men continue to get killed by police officers.

Transgender folks continue

to get killed disproportionately, right?

And writing letters, calling your congressman,

that's the way it's supposed to work,

but when people that protest...

If they kneel, they're told that that's wrong.

If they protest in the streets peacefully,

they're told that they're wrong,

and they may get snatched up by the police.

- No. - No, no, no, no, no, no.

-Hold on, my wife and I, our family,

we've engaged in peaceful protests.

We've been to pro-life rallies, pro-life marches.

- Congressman... - No one ever got violent there!

- Congressman, you are... - We've been involved,

so that's how it's supposed to work.

-But "supposed to," is the key phrase there.

I'll ask you this.

Samuel Adams, John Hancock,

Paul Revere...

patriots or anarchists?

-Patriots.

-The Boston Massacre was violent.

There were sentries on guard, right, that night,

before the Boston Massacre,

and there were the Sons of Liberty

right there in front of them,

who did not want their presence here in the colonies.

-So now you're equating Antifa to the Sons of Liberty?

Are you kidding me?

They were taxed without representation.

They couldn't vote for their person in Parliament.

That's completely different than what we have in America!

-So absolutely, it's completely different.

- So you've got to be kidding me! - They fought because of taxes.

People that are fighting on this front are fighting

because Black people are getting killed at the hands

of the police unjustly.

-And when those terrible tragedies happen,

they should be held accountable, exactly what has...

-Should be! Should be!

-You don't think the police officer in Minneapolis

is going to be held accountable?

Holy cow, of course he is, and he deserves it.

-What of the police officers that ran

into Breonna Taylor's house and shot her while she was asleep?

What are they doing right now?

-Well, there's going to be...

This is how it works in America.

You have a trial by your peer, a jury of your peers.

You have a trial. There's evidence presented.

That's how it works. - Congressman, it's been months.

The woman was asleep in her house!

-So going out in the streets and beating up someone else is okay?

-Who is beating up who?

-Again, look at what's happening in Portland!

So that's okay? - And that's Antifa?

-I don't know, but it might be. I don't know!

-You don't know, but you're...

Why do you say it's Antifa if you don't know?

-Well, you don't know that it isn't.

-What is Antifa to you?

-I would say it's maybe the...

this...

the most dangerous cancel-culture entity out there

because when you see the violence that's associated

with it, that is really intimidating

and I think will lead to silencing of points of view,

and so that's what scares me most about Antifa.

-Would you say that you are against fascism?

-Yeah, I'm for freedom.

I mean, I love this great country.

I'm for the First Amendment.

I'm for equal treatment. You got...

You've got some basic liberties in the First Amendment,

your right to practice your faith,

your right to peaceably assemble peaceably.

That's the way it's supposed to work in this country,

not what's happening in our cities today.

-We've been on a journey trying to understand what Antifa is,

who they are and what they do.

We've spoken to a lot of people who do antifascist work,

but they don't really consider themselves

to be "Antifa,"

but one thing is for sure:

They're frustrated with systemic injustice,

homophobia, xenophobia and racism,

and they put this all underneath an umbrella

that they call fascism,

but we're here on the Hill right now,

and there seems to be a different narrative.

There are Republican congressmen

who refuse to acknowledge that these injustices are fascism,

but what's crazy is,

these two parties are talking past each other

in a way that they don't even understand what it is

that they're arguing about.

The rhetorical battle over Antifa

continues to spill out into the streets,

and political violence is escalating.

During protests in late August

after another police shooting

left Kenosha, Wisconsin, resident Jacob Blake

fighting for his life,

an armed 17-year-old counterprotester killed

two demonstrators and injured a third.

Four days later, a Trump- supporting counterprotester

in Portland was shot and killed

by a man who referred to himself as "100% Antifa."

And in early September, a whistleblower complaint from

within the Department of Homeland Security

claimed that Trump's appointed leadership

had asked intelligence analysts to downplay

the domestic terrorist threat of white supremacists

and play up the threat from Antifa

and left-wing groups to match

with the president's talking points.

Are we currently living in a fascist state?

-I don't think that we are at the point yet

where we actually have a textbook fascist society,

but all of the kinds of prerequisites

for getting there exist.

-It's hard for anybody, like, to stand back

and say that this isn't authoritarianism.

How can it not be?

And I feel like we've gotten so desensitized

to how completely bananas things have gotten

over the last 4 years,

that nothing even shocks us anymore.

The upcoming election will decide

if Trump gets another 4 years in the White House,

but with the unprecedented demonstrations

witnessed this year,

many Americans may begin sounding

more like these antifascists,

capital-A Antifa optional.

-Children in camps, people being murdered by the police,

a lack of education, a lack of food,

a lack of opportunity, a lack of employment.

Those days of singing, "We shall overcome.

Our day is coming tomorrow"?

Fuck that.

We're going backwards.

[ Crowd chanting ] - Our streets!

Our streets! Our streets!

Our streets!