All language subtitles for India The Modi Question S01E01

af Afrikaans
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic Download
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bn Bengali
bs Bosnian
bg Bulgarian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch
en English Download
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ga Irish
it Italian
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
km Khmer
ko Korean
ku Kurdish (Kurmanji)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Lao
la Latin
lv Latvian
lt Lithuanian
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
ne Nepali
no Norwegian
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt Portuguese Download
pa Punjabi
ro Romanian
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
st Sesotho
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhala
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
te Telugu
th Thai
tr Turkish
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
or Odia (Oriya)
rw Kinyarwanda
tk Turkmen
tt Tatar
ug Uyghur
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:08,160 This programme contains scenes which some viewers may find upsetting 2 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,680 My name is Alishan Jafri. 3 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,480 I am a journalist reporting on hate crimes 4 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:52,840 and the rise of extreme politics. 5 00:00:54,800 --> 00:01:00,440 India is a state where calls for genocide against Muslims 6 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:01,720 are on the rise. 7 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,200 There is a very direct call to violence 8 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,200 to make India a Hindu nation. 9 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,880 The Prime Minister of this country should have spoken against it, 10 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,720 but he does not speak up. 11 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,480 CROWD CHANTS 12 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,160 The man of the moment... 13 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,560 ..Prime Minister of India. 14 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,800 He is the leader of the world's biggest democracy. 15 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,880 Narendra Damodardas Modi. 16 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:09,320 He came to power promising a new age of prosperity... 17 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,880 ..but his rule has been marred by religious turmoil. 18 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,240 ARCHIVE: There have been violent protests in opposition 19 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,280 to a new citizenship law which many see as discriminating 20 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,120 against the nation's Muslim minority. 21 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,160 Many in India see this law as anti-Muslim. 22 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,640 Massive pelting, massive pelting as of now is going on. 23 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,680 This series tells the story 24 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:46,680 of Narendra Modi's troubled relationship with India's Muslims. 25 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,720 As a young child, Mr Modi joined an organisation 26 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,600 which believes that this is a country of the Hindus. 27 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,320 Could he have done more to prevent violence 28 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,880 that killed hundreds of Muslims? 29 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,880 We were hearing that those orders to let all this happen 30 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:06,480 were coming from the top. 31 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,400 It is obviously a stain on his reputation. 32 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,360 There's no way out of that. 33 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,400 I'm not agreeing with your analysis. 34 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,080 I'm not agreeing with your information. 35 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,280 From where you have picked up this type of garbage, I do not know. 36 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,320 He was cleared of criminal conspiracy - 37 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,440 a finding upheld by India's highest court... 38 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,200 Agenda was to destroy Narendra Modi politically. 39 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,440 The agenda was explicitly political. 40 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,520 ..but concerns will not go away. 41 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,360 Questions remained over Mr Modi's head for a long time, 42 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,840 and they remain over him now. 43 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:44,040 Narendra Modi has promised to build a new India, 44 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,200 but what does that mean for the millions of people 45 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,880 who belong to its largest minority? 46 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,680 This regime wants to disenfranchise the Muslims 47 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,480 and make India a "Hindu nation". 48 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:36,840 My name is Imran Dawood. 49 00:04:36,840 --> 00:04:38,960 I live in Yorkshire. 50 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:43,720 My grandparents are from India. So is my father. 51 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,280 It was very exciting hearing the stories from family members 52 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:48,840 of what India was about, 53 00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:53,040 so it was a great opportunity to do a trip at the age of 18. 54 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,920 With me was my two uncles, Shakil and Saeed Dawood, 55 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,200 and my next-door neighbour, Mohammed Aswat. 56 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:16,600 We were on our way back from the Taj Mahal. 57 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,480 It was a long journey. 58 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,880 When we actually entered the state, 59 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,240 I remember the driver saying, literally, 60 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,240 "We're home now, boys. We're home." 61 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,280 And then we get to a roadblock. 62 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:34,280 There was cars being stopped by people chanting Hindu chants. 63 00:05:34,280 --> 00:05:36,160 They were, like, vetting them. 64 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,240 It was very common for people to decorate their cars' windscreens 65 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,600 with Arabic literature, 66 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,920 so straight away they'd see the owner is a Muslim. 67 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,160 The car in front gets through and then it's our turn. 68 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,800 The mob surrounded us, waving their weapons. 69 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,120 Suddenly, we have an attack. 70 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:05,200 We're just literally getting out of the car and running for our lives. 71 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:11,800 The first person that the mob attacked and tortured 72 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,280 was the driver. 73 00:06:14,280 --> 00:06:18,000 Then I see Mohammed Aswat getting blows to his head. 74 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,240 One of the people in the mob - having a knife in his hand - 75 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,640 is saying to us, "Pull your pants down. 76 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,800 "We want to see if you've been circumcised," 77 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,160 and literally feeling... 78 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:38,080 ..feeling... 79 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,760 ..feeling, "Am I going to live?" 80 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:51,720 I got stabbed, and then a police vehicle pulls up. 81 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:58,000 And then as I get in, I remember Mohammed...unconscious. 82 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:04,840 And this was before me blacking out. 83 00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:07,120 This is... That's the last thing I see. 84 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,960 I do not know what happened to my uncles. 85 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:31,720 It's...fresh in my mind, like it happened yesterday. 86 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,960 But, sadly, 20 years on and nothing's happened. 87 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,440 There's evidence out there of what has happened 88 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,560 and, clearly, these people are walking free. 89 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,560 It feels like there's no justice there. 90 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,800 ARCHIVE: 57 people have died after a train carrying Hindu activists 91 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:02,920 was set alight by a group of Muslims. 92 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,880 The train was carrying thousands of Hindus who had visited... 93 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,480 The wreckage is horrific, 94 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,560 all the worse for being man-made and deliberate - 95 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:15,120 one of the worst acts of religious hatred India's ever seen. 96 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,320 In some areas, the grief and anger here 97 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,560 have already erupted into violence. 98 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,160 That's alarming news in a state where racial hatred 99 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,080 is deeply ingrained. 100 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,400 Jill McGivering, BBC News, Godhra, Gujarat. 101 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,960 People were saying there had been a group of people inside - 102 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,640 they were Hindu pilgrims, including women and children. 103 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,840 Somebody had either locked them in or kept them inside, 104 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,040 poured petrol in and set fire to them, 105 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,000 and a lot of people had died. 106 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,440 It was horrific. 107 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,000 People were outraged. 108 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:08,520 The perception all over Gujarat - and, in fact, all over India - 109 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,880 was that these Hindu pilgrims 110 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,680 had been targeted by the Muslim community. 111 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,760 The final death toll was 59. 112 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,600 The cause of the fire was disputed, 113 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,760 but at the time, Muslims were blamed. 114 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:32,400 This is in a state which has a particular history of tensions 115 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,720 between the Hindu majority and the Muslim minority community. 116 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,520 There have been a history of communal riots 117 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,960 and of very nasty violence between the communities. 118 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,760 And the concern was, something like this happens, 119 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,960 members of the Hindu community feel angered 120 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:46,880 that their people have been targeted, 121 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,760 there might be a big reaction to that. 122 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:55,040 The Chief Minister of Gujarat was Narendra Modi. 123 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,800 He was seen as a rising star, quite visionary - 124 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,640 a man who got things done, 125 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:06,120 somebody who was very pro-Hindu, a very powerful, influential figure. 126 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,280 I got a call from a foreign diplomat. 127 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,920 She was a diplomat of one of the foreign Western nations. 128 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,840 So she asked me, "Have you heard what had happened in Godhra? 129 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:47,880 "Do you think that this is going to escalate?" 130 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,240 I just used one word. I said, "Hugely." 131 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:59,760 My producer started to get information 132 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,160 that something was happening nearby in Ahmedabad. 133 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:11,360 It was clear from our arrival that something was very, very wrong. 134 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,000 As we were driving in, we were seeing plumes of thick black smoke 135 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,040 ahead of us in the centre of town. 136 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,840 There were no emergency services there. There were no police. 137 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,760 My memories, then, are going into the centre of Ahmedabad. 138 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,920 There's a quite well-known square - 139 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,000 there's a big area, there's an arch - and it was... 140 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,560 It was mostly on fire. 141 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,400 I remember a man who was a Hindu with his hands to his face, 142 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,800 watching his business - it was a travel agent's - burning. 143 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,840 There were also other people informing me sometimes 144 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:01,120 that the areas that were being targeted belonged to Muslims. 145 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,600 JILL, ARCHIVE: This is exactly what the authorities hoped 146 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,880 would never happen - the streets have become a battleground. 147 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,520 The grief and anger at yesterday's murders 148 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,840 has boiled over into violence, looting and religious hatred. 149 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:18,920 JILL: There was this sense of absolute lawlessness. 150 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:20,520 It was a free-for-all. 151 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:27,120 I remember seeing the police here and there, very, very disengaged. 152 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,400 I didn't see anybody, from what I remember, 153 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:36,160 trying to stop the setting fire to things and the looting. 154 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,520 JILL, ARCHIVE: On the worst day of the violence, 155 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:47,000 when murder and looting were taking place all across the city, 156 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,880 we saw policemen just standing by, watching what was happening 157 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,080 but doing nothing to try to stop it. 158 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,120 JILL: One of my colleagues in the team 159 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:01,320 was having quite regular phone calls with a contact of his. 160 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,240 It was someone, I understand, who was high up in the police force, 161 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,960 and they were giving information to my colleague 162 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,680 that they'd been told, "Let it happen. 163 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:13,600 "There will be a reaction to what happened in Godhra. Let it happen." 164 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,880 And we were hearing that those orders to let all this happen 165 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,720 were coming from the top. 166 00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:56,840 Did Mr Modi do enough to stop the violence? 167 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,120 I think that that's something he has to answer for. 168 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:02,680 Depending on how you look at it, 169 00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:08,320 he oversaw mass violence or was not able to stop it. 170 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,200 Questions remained over Mr Modi's head for a long time, 171 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,840 and they remain over him now. 172 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,680 REPORTER: Did the police under your command do enough to stop the riots? 173 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:19,920 Not only enough, but excellent work they have done. 174 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,040 Excellent work? Excellent work they have done. 175 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,360 Within 72 hours, we were able to control such violence. 176 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,560 More than 500 people dead, most of them innocent civilians, 177 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,120 and you're calling this "excellent work"? 178 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,600 I'm not happy at what happened. 179 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,960 But what we have done, I'm happy. 180 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,880 Everyone we've spoken to have said that the police 181 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,520 did absolutely nothing. 182 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,480 This is absolutely false propaganda. This is not the truth. 183 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,680 As questions grew around Mr Modi's actions, 184 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,400 attention turned to his past. 185 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,440 DRUMS PLAY 186 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,760 RSS stands for Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh - 187 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,920 "the Association of Indian Volunteers". 188 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,600 The RSS is a political organisation. 189 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,120 It believes that this is a country of the Hindus. 190 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,720 ARCHIVE: The RSS was formed in 1925 to unite Hindu society 191 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,640 and spread Hindu culture. 192 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,200 But the Boy Scout image is deceptive. 193 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,760 Based on principles of discipline, patriotism 194 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,160 and unquestioning obedience, the RSS seeks to establish 195 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:48,160 the superiority of Hindus over all other races in India. 196 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:57,960 RSS took shape in the 1920s, when, in Europe, we saw a movement 197 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:02,000 that will result in fascism in Italy, Nazism in Germany. 198 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,160 They liked the idea of the supremacy of the race theory, 199 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,640 which was created by the European fascists, 200 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:15,320 and also the idea of creating a common enemy. 201 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,600 For the RSS, the enemy were the Muslims. 202 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,360 Today, RSS is not anti-Muslim, but definitely pro-Hindu. 203 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:30,240 And they believe in the glorious past of this country 204 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,120 and they believe in the idea of national reconstruction. 205 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,320 The very core cultural values of this country, 206 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,760 now they are being called Hindu value system. 207 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,440 People can have any way of worship, 208 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,640 but if they believe in that value system, 209 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,480 they are very much part of India. 210 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:03,200 RSS always recruits children, very young boys, 211 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,440 because they want to tell them who they are 212 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,160 when they are still malleable. 213 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,880 To reshape the psyche of the youth is very important. 214 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,360 So Narendra Modi joined when he was very young. 215 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,240 After school, he would participate in the activities 216 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:26,400 of the young wing of the RSS. That is how he got attracted. 217 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:32,600 Gradually, he has climbed all the ladder of all the posts 218 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,360 of responsibility - and at a very young age. 219 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:37,640 Modi is a product of the RSS. 220 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,600 He has learned its politics, its lifestyle. 221 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,800 He made a mark for himself, 222 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,200 and so he was deputed to the Bharatiya Janata Party - 223 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:54,960 or the BJP - which is a political affiliated organisation of the RSS. 224 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,400 As the violence subsided, stories began to emerge 225 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,920 about what had happened to some of the victims. 226 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,920 In this largely Muslim neighbourhood, more than 100 people 227 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:22,040 had sought shelter in a house to escape a Hindu mob. 228 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:26,640 Imtiyaz Pathan and his family were among them. 229 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,560 The house belonged to a Muslim former Congress Party MP - 230 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:12,880 Ehsan Jafri. 231 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,760 A judge later ruled that Mr Jafri had provoked the mob 232 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,520 by firing his gun at it. 233 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,760 Imtiyaz survived by hiding upstairs. 234 00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:22,160 The violence only stopped when the police eventually arrived. 235 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,280 When a senior police officer arrived at the house that evening, 236 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,400 the victims' corpses were still smouldering. 237 00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:13,240 REPORTER: There are allegations that police could have done more 238 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:14,920 in Ahmedabad today. 239 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,640 There's always scope for improvement, I concede. 240 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,960 There's always scope for improvement. 241 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:21,000 I'm sure... 242 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,280 ..we could have done better. 243 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,880 I think I would take it as my inadequacy, if that is to be said. 244 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,360 The killings would trigger a long legal battle 245 00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:38,160 that made serious allegations about the police response 246 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,600 and Mr Modi's role in the violence. 247 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,960 In 2009, Imtiyaz gave evidence in court 248 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,400 about the alleged phone call between Mr Modi and Mr Jafri. 249 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,240 Mr Modi denied receiving the call 250 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,160 and an inquiry said there was no evidence it was made. 251 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:05,040 Imtiyaz later stood for election against Mr Modi's political party. 252 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,240 In Britain, the government was alarmed 253 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,560 by what had happened in Gujarat. 254 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,240 I was very worried about it. 255 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,040 I was taking a great deal of personal interest 256 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,840 because India is a really important country with whom we have relations. 257 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,600 We had to handle it very carefully. 258 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,080 What we did was to establish an inquiry 259 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,200 and have a team go to the Gujarat 260 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,200 and find out for themselves what had happened. 261 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,600 And they produced a very thorough report. 262 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,560 The report, sent as a diplomatic cable and marked "restricted", 263 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,800 has never been published before. 264 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,080 FEMALE VOICE: "Extent of violence much greater than reported." 265 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,960 "Widespread and systematic rape of Muslim women." 266 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,640 "Violence", "politically motivated." 267 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,120 "Aim was to purge Muslims from Hindu areas." 268 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:12,120 "Their systematic campaign of violence 269 00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:15,200 "has all the hallmarks of ethnic cleansing." 270 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,840 This former senior diplomat was one of the investigators. 271 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,880 He's speaking publicly for the first time 272 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,480 about what the British inquiry found. 273 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,880 He's asked to remain anonymous. 274 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,520 At least 2,000 people were murdered during the violence. 275 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,720 The vast majority were Muslim. 276 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,000 We described it as a pogrom, 277 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,400 a deliberate and politically driven effort 278 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,800 targeted at the Muslim community. 279 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,680 The violence was widely reported to have been organised 280 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,920 by an extremist Hindu nationalist group - the VHP - 281 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,400 who have a relationship with the RSS. 282 00:24:55,280 --> 00:25:00,480 "The VHP and its allies could not have inflicted so much damage 283 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,360 "without the climate of impunity created by the state Government." 284 00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:09,280 "Narendra Modi is directly responsible." 285 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,040 The report contained an extraordinary claim. 286 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,880 "Reliable contacts have told us 287 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,520 "Narendra Modi met senior police officers on the 27th of February 288 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,160 "and ordered them not to intervene in the rioting. 289 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,240 "Police contacts deny this meeting happened." 290 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,400 There were pretty credible reports 291 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,920 he had specifically instructed the police not to intervene. 292 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,720 The police contact who we talked to consistently denied that, 293 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:42,240 so we did have conflicting reports on what his direct role had been, 294 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,680 but we did feel it was clear there was a culture of impunity 295 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,440 that created the environment for the violence to take place. 296 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,480 That undoubtedly came from Modi. 297 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,680 "While Modi remains in power, reconciliation will be impossible." 298 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,880 It was very shocking. 299 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,240 These were very serious claims that Chief Minister Modi 300 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:14,080 had played a pretty active part in pulling back the police 301 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:19,040 and in tacitly encouraging the Hindu extremists. 302 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:25,520 That was a particularly egregious example of political involvement, 303 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,600 really, to prevent the police from doing their job, 304 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,720 which was to protect both communities - 305 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,840 the Hindu and the Muslims. 306 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,360 The options open to us were fairly limited. 307 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:44,000 We were never going to break diplomatic relations with India, 308 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,080 but it is obviously a stain on his reputation. 309 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:47,680 There's no way out of that. 310 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,680 CHANTING 311 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,560 The European Union carried out an investigation 312 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,280 at around the same time. 313 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,480 It reportedly found that ministers took active part in the violence 314 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,400 and senior police officers were instructed 315 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,600 not to intervene in the rioting. 316 00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:17,560 They looked upon this in terms of the...the suffering, 317 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,760 which had happened to the Muslim community, 318 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,960 and if you look at it in that way, you're certainly bound to come 319 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,760 to this conclusion that there was... It was completely one-sided, 320 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,120 and that there was nothing done on the part of the administration 321 00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:35,360 to seriously check this, that it was a deliberate, 322 00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:41,320 pre-planned, motivated assault on Muslims by mobs who were not 323 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,720 restrained is, to my mind, an exaggeration. 324 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,840 It was unstoppable for anyone. 325 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,880 And as a chief minister, 326 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,040 Modi did all the effort. 327 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:58,400 And after three days, he was able to stop with the help of police. 328 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,240 Modi definitely shows contrition. 329 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,080 He even puts in his resignation to the BJP, 330 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,080 but the BJP reject it. 331 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,040 It was quite a smart thing to do because, politically, if you offer 332 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,640 the resignation at that particular juncture and it is turned down, 333 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,600 that's the end of your resignation drama. 334 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,280 My name is Cedric Prakash. 335 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:35,840 I'm a Jesuit priest. 336 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,280 My background has been on human rights, justice and peace. 337 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,240 In Gujarat, human rights workers set up a citizens' tribunal, 338 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,640 headed by three retired judges, to investigate the violence. 339 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,880 Father Cedric helped them. 340 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,200 We wanted people from the government, officials, 341 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,000 to come and depose before the citizens' tribunal. 342 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,160 It was not easy. They were frightened. 343 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,200 Their careers were at stake. 344 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,520 On a flight to Delhi, 345 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,720 I happened to be seated next to a minister 346 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,280 of the Gujarat government. 347 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,760 He belonged to the BJP. 348 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,440 Haren Pandya was responsible for the home affairs 349 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,720 of the state for several years. 350 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,880 He just very recently relinquished office when Modi took 351 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,840 over as Chief Minister of the state. 352 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,960 He was telling me, "I know everything what was happening." 353 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,560 Then I said, "We have the citizens' tribunal - would you...?" 354 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,560 He said, "Of course I'll be willing." 355 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,600 He swore us to secrecy. 356 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,960 We tried to do everything possible in order to protect his identity 357 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,080 because he was big catch. 358 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,640 The tribunal was examining Mr Modi's role - 359 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,320 including the directions he had given to the police. 360 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:12,040 I think Haren Pandya wanted to explain what had transpired 361 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:13,840 on the 27th of February, 362 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,600 so he came to my office. 363 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,080 Mr Pandya told the tribunal he had attended a late night 364 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:26,280 meeting with Mr Modi and senior officials, and he claimed Mr Modi 365 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,720 said the police should not interfere with the Hindu reaction 366 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,920 to what happened at Godhra. 367 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,160 Mr Pandya was very clearly blaming Modi for the violence. 368 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,360 He felt he was responsible and he should be brought to book. 369 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:41,480 That was clear. 370 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,440 This was the real first indication from within the government 371 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,600 that there was actually a decision taken. 372 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,960 He is indicating that the chief minister of the state was party to 373 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,840 a decision where the law and agencies do not do their work, 374 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,200 let Muslims be attacked. 375 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,280 Mr Pandya wanted to remain anonymous, but news about his 376 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:15,320 evidence leaked out, and he resigned from Mr Modi's government. 377 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,080 Narendra Modi has said he gave categorical and clear-cut 378 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,920 instructions to maintain peace and communal harmony at any cost. 379 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,960 So was Haren Pandya lying? 380 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,160 Frankly, I don't know. I wasn't at the meeting, 381 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:31,760 so I don't know exactly what it is. 382 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,560 But a chief minister of a state cannot give a blank cheque 383 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,240 to people to run riot. 384 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:45,960 Last year, India's Supreme Court said Mr Pandya's claim was false. 385 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,960 Its findings were based on an official inquiry 386 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,800 which found Mr Pandya was not at the meeting. 387 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,240 The inquiry heard that others who were there disputed his presence 388 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,120 and records showed his government mobile was several miles away 389 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:02,960 at the time. 390 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,480 But some questioned the inquiry's credibility and thoroughness. 391 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:18,440 For most politicians, allegations like this would be devastating. 392 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,880 But in the midst of all the criticism, 393 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,640 Narendra Modi did something unexpected - 394 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,040 he called an election in Gujarat. 395 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:38,280 NEWS CORRESPONDENT: This election is all about one man - Narendra Modi. 396 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,600 To his supporters, he preaches an extreme form of Hindu nationalism, 397 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,240 offering hope and security against Muslim extremists. 398 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,040 We're just after the events of 9/11, which, in many ways, 399 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,480 has legitimised actions against Muslims across the globe. 400 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,440 This, at the very least, emboldens what the BJP are doing in Gujarat. 401 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,600 Mr Modi realised that there was a very strong sentiment of Hindu 402 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,480 victimhood, and he decided to harness that electorally. 403 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,800 The violence against Muslims became part of the messaging 404 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:11,000 that Narendra Modi used in the election campaign. 405 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,240 It is the violence and how he reacted to it that has constructed 406 00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:17,360 the persona of Narendra Modi. 407 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,800 UNTRANSLATED 408 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,680 Narendra Modi doesn't tend to be very media friendly. 409 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,520 You follow what I say? A little bit, yes. 410 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,200 So for him to agree to do a sit-down interview with us 411 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:36,800 felt like a bit of a scoop. 412 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,400 HE CHUCKLES 413 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,240 He struck me as a very charismatic, 414 00:34:42,240 --> 00:34:44,000 very powerful, 415 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,520 quite menacing figure. 416 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,480 So you're now coming up to elections. 417 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,600 This seems to me to be a state in turmoil. 418 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,520 We're seeing repeated violence. 419 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,200 We're seeing people living in fear. 420 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,320 What has gone wrong with this breakdown in law and order here? 421 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,240 I think you have to correct your information first. 422 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,120 The state is very, very peaceful. 423 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,400 So, the Muslims who would say that they are still terrified, 424 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,040 they are still frightened to go back to their homes... I am not... 425 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,680 ..they still fear that the people who murdered their relatives 426 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,160 have not been brought to justice. What would you say to them? 427 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,200 I'm not agreeing with your analysis. 428 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,040 I'm not agreeing with your information. 429 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,360 This absolutely misguided information to you. 430 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,600 From where you have picked up this type of garbage, I do not know. 431 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,400 Some people have been accusing your government of not doing enough 432 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,840 to stop this, of not protecting Muslims even now. 433 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,560 These are also false propaganda made by our opponents. 434 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,280 And you are also a captive of this false propaganda. 435 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,240 Can you explain more? Who is perpetuating this false propaganda? 436 00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:56,800 The information I am reporting is taken from what I have seen 437 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,040 with my own eyes, both at the times of the riot and now. 438 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,520 Those who are our opponents. 439 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,760 And the independent reports that have already 440 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,920 been published into what has happened? 441 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,680 They have no right to talk about the internal matter 442 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,120 of any government. 443 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:10,600 I'm very, very clear in my mind. 444 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,560 If they have done, they have done wrong. 445 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:13,960 Some would say it is a human right. 446 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,840 There is a general international interest. 447 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,760 Please don't try to preach us the human rights. 448 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,000 We know what the human rights are. 449 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,600 You British should not preach us human rights. 450 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,760 When you look back over the last month, you've been the leader 451 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,000 of this state through a very difficult period. 452 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,160 Do you think there's anything that you should have done differently? 453 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:32,560 Yes. 454 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,520 One area where I was very, very big. 455 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,080 And that was how to handle the media. 456 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,120 SHOUTING AND CHANTING 457 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,040 NEWSREEL: Ecstatic crowds of BJP supporters started to celebrate 458 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,960 the election win before it was official. 459 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,880 The architect of victory, Narendra Modi, 460 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,960 the controversial Chief Minister of Gujarat. 461 00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:04,160 The more Mr Modi was attacked, the stronger he became by simply 462 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,680 saying that he was being targeted only because he was standing 463 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,720 up for the rights of Hindus. 464 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,440 A new repertoire had taken shape. 465 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,760 You polarise your vote, and you get the majority supporting you. 466 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,800 I just entered a taxi and suddenly I got a call 467 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,360 from a journalist friend of mine 468 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,920 and she said, "Do you know what has happened to Haren Pandya?" 469 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,320 She told me that he was... he was killed. 470 00:37:55,480 --> 00:38:00,000 He's found dead in a car under very suspicious circumstances. 471 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,080 The entry point of the bullet wound is at the groin. 472 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:08,640 There is no blood lying there where there should have been blood. 473 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,000 There is no way from the position he was in that he could 474 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,080 have been killed sitting in the car. 475 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,440 Evidence suggests he was killed elsewhere, 476 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,680 his body put in the car and placed there. 477 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,160 The death of Haren Pandya is a mystery - 478 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,000 a well-kept mystery, probably. 479 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,400 There is, to my knowledge, no serious investigation. 480 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,240 The murder of Haren Pandya remains one of the big 481 00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:37,560 mysteries, even today. 482 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,840 Mr Pandya was killed in a murder which has really not 483 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,160 been answered yet. 484 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,520 12 men were jailed in connection with his murder, 485 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,400 but this verdict was overturned - 486 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,360 the court blaming a botched investigation. 487 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,720 NEWSREEL: All accused in the Haren Pandya murder case 488 00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:54,880 have been acquitted. 489 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,520 Haren Pandya was the former home minister, you might remember, 490 00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:58,960 of Gujarat... 491 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:04,640 In 2019, India's Supreme Court upheld the original verdict, 492 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,280 but even some in Mr Modi's own party have doubts 493 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,720 about the investigation into Mr Pandya's death. 494 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:14,960 I knew him personally. 495 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:21,680 I think the killing of Mr Pandya was tragic and suspicious, 496 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,800 and the circumstances explained to me 497 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,120 don't make me believe in it. 498 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,680 I'd like to know who organised it so well. 499 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:37,280 It is not some, just a stray, say, killer or somebody taking revenge... 500 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,640 ..but it is well-organised. 501 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,120 I don't think it has been properly investigated. 502 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,120 He was killed by terrorists who wanted to kill him 503 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,760 so that the blame could be apportioned to Narendra Modi. 504 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,560 The investigation was thorough. 505 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,640 It went into every stage of the Indian judicial process 506 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,920 and culminated in a Supreme Court judgment. 507 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,640 I think we should leave it at that. 508 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,760 In Yorkshire, the Dawood family were losing faith that the police 509 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,280 in Gujarat would catch the men who killed 510 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,400 Saeed, Shakil and Mohammed. 511 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,440 There were some serious doubts arising in terms of what the Indian 512 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,720 police were doing, because on the one hand they were saying 513 00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:34,240 that they were doing everything. 514 00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:37,360 On the other hand, we were seeing no results whatsoever. 515 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,160 In respect to the investigation, 516 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,000 we had no confidence in the Indian police. 517 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:51,600 It turned out that the police hadn't even done basic investigations. 518 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,800 They hadn't gone to the scene of the crime. 519 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,640 Family members went to the crime scene themselves and made 520 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,640 a terrible discovery. 521 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:07,000 They found burnt remains, including bone fragments, bits of teeth. 522 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,560 It seemed from what everybody was indicating that those remains 523 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,160 were Saeed and Shakil's. 524 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,640 The police seemed to be putting up a wall and were completely 525 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,880 disinterested in helping us get to the truth. 526 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,720 Then there was an unexpected development. 527 00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:33,840 NEWSREEL: The controversial chief minister of Gujarat, Narendra Modi, 528 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,960 has arrived in London on a short visit. 529 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,000 He presides over the state where as many as 2,000 people 530 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,560 were killed in communal rioting... 531 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,200 I thought this was a great opportunity for the family 532 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,640 and for the victims for him to be arrested here in the UK. 533 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,800 The idea was that the family would go to court and seek 534 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,200 to prosecute Narendra Modi. 535 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,680 We had pages - hundreds of pages - of reports. 536 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:04,520 All of them were clear that this was a massacre. 537 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,280 Most importantly, that there was state collusion. 538 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:15,000 And so the chain of command went all the way to the Chief Minister. 539 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,680 Although the offence took place in India, it could be prosecuted 540 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:20,880 in this country. 541 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:30,160 An Indian diplomat said when news of the plan leaked, there was panic. 542 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:35,560 Mr Modi was reportedly urged to leave Britain on the next plane. 543 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:40,000 I argued in front of the judge for Narendra Modi's arrest. 544 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,760 The judge said, "I can see all the things that you've put 545 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,640 "before me, Mr Kahn, but really 546 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,040 "what I need is the witness statements." 547 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,960 The evidence that we would need to prosecute it 548 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,120 would have been somebody somewhere along the chain of command 549 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,800 saying, "Yes, there was an order 550 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,800 "not to take any action, allowing this to happen." 551 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,800 Mr Khan says that the evidence that has emerged since then - 552 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,280 even though it is fiercely contested - has made him 553 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,080 more convinced of the merits of his case. 554 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,600 Knowing what we now know, and the information that we now have, 555 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,640 if we had had that at that time, I'm pretty sure that a summons 556 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,600 would have been issued for Modi's arrest. 557 00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:26,000 We were bitterly disappointed the judge didn't issue the warrant, 558 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:31,720 but we understood this was going to be a quite a long campaign 559 00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:35,240 in terms of getting answers and getting justice and holding 560 00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:36,560 people to account. 561 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,360 Western governments began to take action against Narendra Modi 562 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,840 over the Gujarat violence. 563 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,160 The UK imposed a diplomatic boycott and de facto travel ban. 564 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,440 There was essentially a travel ban imposed on Modi. 565 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,720 I would like to have seen much stronger action, but I think 566 00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:09,840 we probably did end up doing as much as we could. 567 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:15,280 In 2005, the US government formally revoked a visa for Mr Modi 568 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:19,960 under a law that targets government officials responsible for severe 569 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,280 violations of religious freedom. 570 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,680 The US are saying this is not acceptable. 571 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,280 Mr Modi? Would you like to speak to the BBC, Mr Modi? 572 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,040 Barred from entering the United States, 573 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,320 barred from entering the United Kingdom. 574 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,640 On the international stage, it makes him somewhat of a pariah. 575 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:13,000 In 2007, a reporter went undercover in Gujarat to investigate 576 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,080 what had happened during the violence. 577 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,160 Posing as a Hindu extremist, 578 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,080 he secretly filmed one of the killers boasting about the role 579 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:23,160 he had played. 580 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:29,560 Babu Bajrangi was accused of leading a mob that killed around 100 people. 581 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:54,000 Mr Bajrangi made an extraordinary claim about Narendra Modi. 582 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,400 He said that when he was arrested for murder, several months 583 00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:02,320 after the massacre, Mr Modi helped him get bail by changing the judge. 584 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,520 Mr Bajrangi later claimed he was reading from a script given 585 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,480 to him by the reporter. 586 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:26,120 Though a judge ruled the veracity of the sting was not in dispute. 587 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,320 In 2012, Mr Bajrangi was jailed for murder. 588 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:35,600 And he wasn't the only one who made damaging claims about Mr Modi. 589 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,520 Haresh Bhatt, a local BJP politician, 590 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,480 said he was at a political meeting addressed by Mr Modi 591 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,880 shortly after the train burning. 592 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:21,200 Mr Bhatt later said he told the reporter an imaginary story. 593 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,440 Mr Modi has said allegations against him in the recordings 594 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,200 are false and incorrect. 595 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:35,280 You often find that activists at the lower level... 596 00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:37,960 ..make claims... 597 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,240 ..which are, in hindsight, quite preposterous. 598 00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:45,920 They exaggerate their own importance. 599 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,280 But pressure was now building for a new investigation 600 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:52,600 into the violence. 601 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:05,120 By the beginning of 2011, Narendra Modi had run Gujarat 602 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:06,600 for nearly a decade. 603 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,960 Despite the controversies, some were now tipping him 604 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,280 for an even bigger job - 605 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,120 India's next Prime Minister. 606 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,880 Modi started to think about national politics 607 00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:26,320 very early on, projecting himself as a national leader 608 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,760 It was already clear that he was headed 609 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:39,920 on a course which would lead him to the national state. 610 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,520 But Mr Modi had a problem. 611 00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,080 SHOUTING 612 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:52,120 India's Supreme Court had ordered a wide-ranging investigation 613 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,960 into the Gujarat violence. 614 00:48:54,960 --> 00:49:00,080 A special investigation team - or SIT - was examining the Dawood 615 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,000 family murders and allegations made by Ehsan Jafri's 616 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:09,480 widow that Mr Modi was part of a criminal conspiracy that led 617 00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,800 to the disorder and killings across the state. 618 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,160 NEWSREEL: Modi seems to be unstoppable. 619 00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,160 But the ghosts of the past don't leave him alone. 620 00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,840 Grilled for nine hours on the case in 2010, the stain 621 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:25,360 on his image remains. 622 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,400 The mandate was to look into the possibility 623 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,200 that there was a criminal conspiracy by the government 624 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:33,480 led by Narendra Modi. 625 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,920 But the criminal conspiracy is a particular term in law 626 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,960 which requires a very strong standard of evidence. 627 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,800 For the first time in the history of independent India, a sitting 628 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,200 chief minister, Narendra Modi, has been questioned on the role 629 00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,880 of his government in mass murders in connection with the post-Godhra 630 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:51,120 riots in Gujarat. 631 00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,200 I think Mr Modi definitely was very worried. 632 00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,480 The special investigation team was definitely a very serious 633 00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,840 threat to Mr Modi's political career. 634 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,440 An important witness was the former head of police intelligence 635 00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:10,200 in Gujarat, RB Sreekumar, who'd made a string of claims about police 636 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,720 and government failures. 637 00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:16,240 He claimed that, on the night of the Gujarat train burning, 638 00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:19,720 Mr Modi instructed officials to allow Hindus 639 00:50:19,720 --> 00:50:21,720 to give vent to their anger. 640 00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,440 He claimed Gujarat's police chief had told him this - 641 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,560 though the chief denied it. 642 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:32,040 Without Sreekumar, the case against the Narendra Modi 643 00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,160 government would be much weaker 644 00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,640 simply because there would have been no information 645 00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,560 from inside the government which would tell you what was happening. 646 00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:44,240 In that sense, he was a central figure in this investigation. 647 00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:48,400 Another senior police officer, Sanjiv Bhatt, gave evidence. 648 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,960 NEWSREEL: The ghost of the Godhra riots back to haunt Narendra Modi. 649 00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,320 This time it's senior police officer Sanjiv Bhatt who alleges 650 00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,640 that Modi was complicit in the Godhra riots. 651 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,240 In an affidavit filed in the Supreme Court, Bhatt says that he was 652 00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:04,880 present at the crucial law and order meeting chaired by Modi. 653 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:05,960 I know my truth. 654 00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:10,000 I've stated my truth and I have sent there a note in an affidavit 655 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,520 submitted to the highest court of the land. 656 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,360 When he started reporting before the SIT inquiry, 657 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,960 my father stated that the control room contacted him, 658 00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,600 saying that an unofficial meeting has been called 659 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,600 at the Chief Minister's residence and that his presence was required. 660 00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:31,360 He said that Narendra Modi ended up saying that the emotions 661 00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,680 were running very high in the Hindus and it was imperative 662 00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,080 that the Hindus be allowed to vent their anger. 663 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:43,120 He said that Narendra Modi had directed the police force 664 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,040 to step down, look the other way. 665 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:50,480 Mr Modi and other officials at the meeting said Mr Bhatt did not 666 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:55,040 attend, but an independent adviser to the Supreme Court said 667 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:59,720 there was enough evidence to consider prosecuting Mr Modi. 668 00:51:59,720 --> 00:52:03,800 This is a prominent legal person who has reached his own conclusions 669 00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,760 about what is there and I think some of those conclusions needed 670 00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:08,200 to be taken note of. 671 00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,120 In major relief for Narendra Modi, 672 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,200 the Supreme Court-appointed rights panel has found no evidence 673 00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:17,840 against the Gujarat Chief Minister. 674 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,920 The complainant, Zakia Jafri, had accused Modi of ordering 675 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,360 officials to give rioters a free hand - 676 00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,640 the only complaint that named him. 677 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:32,120 After three years, the SIT ruled that Mr Modi would face no charges. 678 00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:38,000 It said RB Sreekumar's account was hearsay, and Sanjiv Bhatt's 679 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,160 account could not be relied on. 680 00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,800 It said claims about the instructions Mr Modi 681 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,040 had given were not established. 682 00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,360 NEWSREEL: So, what next for Modi? 683 00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:56,000 Legal experts say he has not got a clean chit in the rights - 684 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,320 just that there is no evidence. 685 00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,000 But it could... 686 00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,320 The ruling did not stop the debate over what had happened. 687 00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:08,880 The special investigation team could not succeed, for many, 688 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:10,440 many different reasons. 689 00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,320 The investigation team had to rely somewhat on the Gujarat police. 690 00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:20,480 Much of the investigation on the ground is done by police officers, 691 00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,600 and among the people who stand indicted 692 00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,600 are the Gujarat police force itself. 693 00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:31,040 The SIT report is really very superficial. 694 00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:36,920 It doesn't explain how this pogrom could take place. 695 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:41,800 So, of course, it underestimates - I mean, it minimises the roles 696 00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,440 of the top leaders, the chain of command. 697 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:48,800 To establish criminal conspiracy in law is often very difficult. 698 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,160 Just because they have arrived at the conclusion there was no 699 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:56,000 criminal conspiracy is not the same as saying the conduct 700 00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,280 is above question, that there were not serious lapses. 701 00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:03,560 That in no way takes away all the important questions 702 00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:06,880 that still stand on the 2002 violence. 703 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,160 Yes, there were some people who said they were at a particular meeting 704 00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:11,680 when others said they were not. 705 00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:15,720 Agenda was to destroy Narendra Modi politically. 706 00:54:15,720 --> 00:54:17,880 The agenda was explicitly political. 707 00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,840 I don't think they were concerned about Muslim victims, 708 00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,960 and these included a section of the media, these included 709 00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:25,960 journalists, these included NGOs. 710 00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,600 I think ultimately at the end of the day, the SIT findings 711 00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:31,520 didn't implicate Mr Modi. 712 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,640 The SIT gave a clean chit to Narendra Modi. 713 00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:40,360 We have to have faith on our institution and we have to put 714 00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,840 a full stop on something and we have to move forward. 715 00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,360 CROWD CHEERING 716 00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,720 The verdict cleared the way for Mr Modi to run 717 00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:51,600 for prime minister. 718 00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:53,640 The travel bans were lifted. 719 00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:58,360 Diplomatic relations with the West were restored. 720 00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:02,440 I don't think that I had any doubt that Mr Modi 721 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,280 is going to be the next prime minister. 722 00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,120 NEWSREEL: Narendra Modi, India's next Prime Minister, 723 00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,560 riding into Delhi in triumph, 724 00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:16,560 after he won an election landslide with his promise that good days 725 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:18,120 are coming for India. 726 00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,400 Sanjiv Bhatt was jailed for life in 2019 727 00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:39,760 over a death-in-custody case dating back 30 years. 728 00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:46,040 His family insists he's innocent, and many say his trial was unfair. 729 00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:51,120 The government will try to do whatever they can to ensure 730 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,720 that my father's voice is not heard. 731 00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:59,480 He is the sole surviving witness who can tie Narendra Modi 732 00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:01,560 to the carnage of 2002. 733 00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:09,000 No-one has ever been convicted for the Dawood family murders. 734 00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,600 Still feeling very angry, very frustrated. 735 00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,000 It feels like there's no justice there. 736 00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:29,200 Ehsan Jafri's widow challenged the findings of the SIT in court. 737 00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:34,840 In June 2022, India's Supreme Court upheld the findings, 738 00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:38,160 saying there was no larger conspiracy. 739 00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:41,880 It ruled the testimonies of Sanjiv Bhatt and RB Sreekumar 740 00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:47,080 were replete with falsehood and said those involved in abuse of process 741 00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,320 need to be in the dock. 742 00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,600 Shortly after, Mr Modi's closest political ally 743 00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:55,160 spoke out about the case. 744 00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:31,240 The police arrested Mr Sreekumar and a high-profile human-rights worker 745 00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,560 who helped Mrs Jafri bring the case. 746 00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:39,520 Sanjiv Bhatt, already in prison, was named in the police complaint, too. 747 00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:44,960 All three are accused of fabricating evidence. 748 00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:49,280 20 years on, the Gujarat violence remains controversial. 749 00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:56,360 None of the people arrested were sources for our report 750 00:57:56,360 --> 00:58:00,200 and the findings of our investigation still stand. 751 00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:04,280 2,000 people were murdered in Gujarat in 2002 752 00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:08,880 in a campaign of violence that was clearly well organised. 753 00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,080 That remains a fact. 754 00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,600 Now Mr Modi is in power, 755 00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,960 it seems to me that history is being rewritten. 756 00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,680 The Supreme Court gave a judgment which actually brought the whole 757 00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,200 matter to a closure. 758 00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,080 The closure was necessary.100152

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.