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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.133 (Somber music) 2 00:00:13.733 --> 00:00:18.733 (Thunder) (Ominous music) 3 00:00:25.670 --> 00:00:27.600 [Voiceover] He's reaching out, really, for the downtrodden 4 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:30.933 Of society, for the average Joe on the street who wants 5 00:00:30.933 --> 00:00:33.267 To look up to his lyrics and his music and say, 6 00:00:33.267 --> 00:00:35.700 "Hey, this man's talking my language." 7 00:00:43.533 --> 00:00:45.167 [Voiceover] You guys don't like explaining anything 8 00:00:45.167 --> 00:00:46.433 To do with your music... 9 00:00:46.433 --> 00:00:47.367 [Voiceover] There's nothing to be said, 10 00:00:47.367 --> 00:00:48.733 It's all in the music, man. 11 00:00:48.733 --> 00:00:50.200 It's all in the music. 12 00:00:51.333 --> 00:00:53.333 [Voiceover] If there was a John Lennon-type figure 13 00:00:53.333 --> 00:00:56.333 For the so-called "Generation X," it would be Cobain. 14 00:00:56.967 --> 00:00:58.467 [Voiceover] The body of Nirvana leader Kurt Cobain 15 00:00:58.467 --> 00:01:00.767 Was found in a house in Seattle on Friday morning, 16 00:01:00.767 --> 00:01:03.167 Dead of an apparently self-inflicted shotgun blast 17 00:01:03.167 --> 00:01:04.667 To the head. 18 00:01:04.933 --> 00:01:07.533 [Voiceover] An electrician hired to work on Cobain's home 19 00:01:07.533 --> 00:01:10.300 Walked up to this room above Cobain's garage 20 00:01:10.300 --> 00:01:12.800 And made the shocking discovery this morning. 21 00:01:13.267 --> 00:01:14.867 [Voiceover] A suicide note was found. 22 00:01:14.867 --> 00:01:16.433 [Voiceover] This is a puzzling case, 23 00:01:16.433 --> 00:01:18.433 A very disturbing case. 24 00:01:19.267 --> 00:01:22.133 [Voiceover] It first got reported that Kurt was missing 25 00:01:22.133 --> 00:01:26.167 And Courtney Love hired private investigator Tom Grant. 26 00:01:26.167 --> 00:01:27.100 [Voiceover] I had been involved in 27 00:01:27.100 --> 00:01:29.300 Missing persons cases before. 28 00:01:29.300 --> 00:01:31.933 Some red flags started popping up immediately, 29 00:01:31.933 --> 00:01:35.667 So I began recording every conversation I had with Courtney 30 00:01:35.667 --> 00:01:38.333 During the entire period that I worked for her. 31 00:01:38.767 --> 00:01:42.633 [Voiceover] My name is (Indistinct) 32 00:01:42.633 --> 00:01:45.200 [Voiceover] It could be made to look like a suicide. 33 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:47.533 [Voiceover] People that I had do this, I paid. 34 00:01:47.533 --> 00:01:49.670 [Voiceover] I've walked into cases that looked 35 00:01:49.670 --> 00:01:51.200 Like they were suicides that turned out to be homicides. 36 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:52.767 [Voiceover] Cobain's wife, singer Courtney Love, 37 00:01:52.767 --> 00:01:54.867 Was in England on tour with her band Hole 38 00:01:54.867 --> 00:01:56.300 When the body was discovered. 39 00:01:56.300 --> 00:01:58.200 [Voiceover] As it is, she has inherited an estate 40 00:01:58.200 --> 00:02:00.167 Worth tens of millions of dollars. 41 00:02:00.167 --> 00:02:01.567 That's motive. 42 00:02:01.567 --> 00:02:02.933 [Voiceover] Did Courtney Love kill Kurt Cobain? 43 00:02:02.933 --> 00:02:05.833 Did she have a hand in any kind of conspiracy? 44 00:02:05.833 --> 00:02:10.800 These are favorite topics of fanatics. 45 00:02:11.733 --> 00:02:13.633 [Voiceover] There's nothing in the medical examiner's 46 00:02:13.633 --> 00:02:16.500 Report or coroner's reports that could not have easily 47 00:02:16.500 --> 00:02:18.867 Have been duplicated by a murderer. 48 00:02:18.867 --> 00:02:21.267 [Voiceover] It's entirely possible that a police officer, 49 00:02:21.267 --> 00:02:24.967 No matter how well-trained, may not see or notice 50 00:02:24.967 --> 00:02:27.133 A particular item of evidence. 51 00:02:27.133 --> 00:02:29.133 [Voiceover] Kurt Cobain was not barricaded 52 00:02:29.133 --> 00:02:30.367 Inside the room. 53 00:02:30.367 --> 00:02:32.600 He did not leave his driver's license out. 54 00:02:32.600 --> 00:02:34.800 No one would believe that was a suicide note. 55 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:36.933 Kurt Cobain was injected with three times 56 00:02:36.933 --> 00:02:39.533 The lethal dose of heroin. 57 00:02:39.533 --> 00:02:41.500 The media was getting this wrong. 58 00:02:43.933 --> 00:02:48.933 (Thunder) (Rain) 59 00:03:02.833 --> 00:03:07.833 (Ominous music) 60 00:03:28.167 --> 00:03:29.833 Are you sure he's not in there? 61 00:03:32.700 --> 00:03:35.670 I knocked for at least five minutes. 62 00:03:35.700 --> 00:03:37.467 If he's there he would have answered. 63 00:03:37.967 --> 00:03:39.700 Alright, I just don't wanna end up 64 00:03:39.700 --> 00:03:41.767 On the wrong end of a shotgun. 65 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:53.133 Let's go. 66 00:04:12.670 --> 00:04:13.400 [Dylan] Careful. 67 00:04:22.733 --> 00:04:24.467 [Dylan] Kurt? 68 00:04:24.467 --> 00:04:26.670 Kurt! 69 00:04:55.867 --> 00:04:56.700 [Tom] If we find it we're gonna have 70 00:04:56.700 --> 00:04:58.670 To take it, right? 71 00:04:58.633 --> 00:05:00.670 [Dylan] Yeah. 72 00:05:00.633 --> 00:05:02.367 Which I can legally do since I bought it. 73 00:05:02.367 --> 00:05:04.670 It's in my name, so... 74 00:05:05.633 --> 00:05:07.500 [Tom] Not here, could it be under the bed? 75 00:05:07.567 --> 00:05:08.700 [Dylan] Might be. 76 00:05:11.267 --> 00:05:13.433 [Tom] No. Alright, let's move this. 77 00:05:16.670 --> 00:05:17.433 Alright, what is this? 78 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:19.670 This mean anything to ya? 79 00:05:19.670 --> 00:05:20.900 [Dylan] Rohypnol, that's where they are. 80 00:05:20.900 --> 00:05:22.670 [Tom] What? 81 00:05:22.670 --> 00:05:23.300 He kept saying someone stole 'em, 82 00:05:23.300 --> 00:05:25.400 But they've been sitting there. 83 00:05:25.400 --> 00:05:27.533 These are what he OD'ed on in Rome. 84 00:05:27.533 --> 00:05:29.200 [Tom] Well she didn't want us to take those. 85 00:05:29.200 --> 00:05:30.367 Yeah. 86 00:05:31.200 --> 00:05:33.670 [Tom] Uh, wait a minute. 87 00:05:33.670 --> 00:05:34.400 Would she be okay if you keep 'em? 88 00:05:34.400 --> 00:05:35.500 [Dylan] Yeah. 89 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:43.200 Are they legal here? 90 00:05:43.200 --> 00:05:45.670 [Dylan] Yeah, they're completely legal, they're like... 91 00:05:45.670 --> 00:05:46.467 [Tom] What are they used for? 92 00:05:46.467 --> 00:05:47.900 [Dylan] They're sold as a sedative for 93 00:05:47.900 --> 00:05:50.533 Sleeping ailments, and sometimes they're given to people... 94 00:05:50.533 --> 00:05:51.900 [Tom] And if we get pulled over, you're not 95 00:05:51.900 --> 00:05:53.767 Gonna get arrested for havin' those? 96 00:05:53.767 --> 00:05:55.600 [Dylan] No, they're fine. 97 00:05:57.967 --> 00:06:00.700 Well it's obviously not here, the shotgun. 98 00:06:00.700 --> 00:06:04.100 No, and I dunno where it would be. 99 00:06:12.533 --> 00:06:13.233 [Tom] Is there anywhere else? 100 00:06:13.233 --> 00:06:14.267 [Dylan] No. 101 00:06:15.167 --> 00:06:16.333 [Tom] Okay. 102 00:06:17.670 --> 00:06:22.670 (Ominous music) 103 00:08:21.167 --> 00:08:22.833 My name is Tom Grant. 104 00:08:22.833 --> 00:08:25.670 I was hired by Courtney Love to find her missing 105 00:08:25.670 --> 00:08:29.670 Husband, Kurt Cobain, in April of 1994. 106 00:08:32.167 --> 00:08:35.467 My father was a schoolteacher, 107 00:08:35.467 --> 00:08:39.133 And this is a man I never caught one time 108 00:08:39.133 --> 00:08:41.533 In my entire life telling a lie. 109 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:46.467 He was the best role model anybody can ask for. 110 00:08:47.867 --> 00:08:50.800 By the time I became a junior in high school, 111 00:08:50.800 --> 00:08:53.967 I definitely wanted to be a police officer. 112 00:08:54.733 --> 00:08:57.670 Graduating from the L.A. County Sheriff's Department 113 00:08:57.670 --> 00:09:01.670 Was a very proud day for me and for my family. 114 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:04.670 My first assignment was a patrol division 115 00:09:04.670 --> 00:09:06.700 At West Hollywood Sheriff Station. 116 00:09:10.500 --> 00:09:14.133 When I quit the department, I quit in very high standing. 117 00:09:14.133 --> 00:09:15.967 From there I moved on, took the test 118 00:09:15.967 --> 00:09:19.167 And obtained my own private investigator's license. 119 00:09:26.133 --> 00:09:30.267 I believe what makes me a good P.I. is that I always apply 120 00:09:30.267 --> 00:09:33.867 Logic and common sense to everything that I do. 121 00:09:35.133 --> 00:09:38.933 I've seen a lot of suicides, a lot of murders, 122 00:09:38.933 --> 00:09:42.670 And I don't try to pre-determine anything. 123 00:09:43.533 --> 00:09:46.670 And if I feel that my client, that's coming to me 124 00:09:46.670 --> 00:09:50.267 For help, is in the wrong based on what they're telling me, 125 00:09:50.267 --> 00:09:52.600 I'll let them know, "This could be a pretty" 126 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:54.867 "Dangerous trip for you." 127 00:09:54.867 --> 00:09:57.733 Scratch the surface of most P.I.s and you don't find a clean 128 00:09:57.733 --> 00:10:00.000 Record, you find a lotta skeletons. 129 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:01.600 And then we met Tom Grant. 130 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:04.100 It turned out he had an exemplary record. 131 00:10:04.100 --> 00:10:06.967 He was respected, he was a stand-up guy. 132 00:10:06.967 --> 00:10:09.500 There was a consensus, and that went a long way 133 00:10:09.500 --> 00:10:12.467 To convincing us of his credibility. 134 00:10:12.467 --> 00:10:15.400 The word conspiracy is actually a legal term. 135 00:10:15.400 --> 00:10:18.733 It simply means two or more people plotting 136 00:10:18.733 --> 00:10:21.367 Or planning to commit a crime. 137 00:10:21.367 --> 00:10:24.467 Even committing shoplifting with another person 138 00:10:24.467 --> 00:10:27.467 Can actually be charged with conspiracy. 139 00:10:28.300 --> 00:10:31.500 When somebody refers to me as a conspiracy theorist, 140 00:10:31.500 --> 00:10:35.133 I take it as an insult because I know what they mean by it. 141 00:10:35.833 --> 00:10:38.833 Hiring me is not like hiring an attorney. 142 00:10:38.833 --> 00:10:43.100 It's not to protect you, it's not to keep you outta jail. 143 00:10:43.100 --> 00:10:46.500 My job as a private investigator is to find the truth. 144 00:10:46.500 --> 00:10:49.633 It's simply to find the truth in the matter 145 00:10:49.633 --> 00:10:51.967 That you're hiring me for. 146 00:10:54.900 --> 00:10:59.900 (Eerie music) 147 00:11:03.267 --> 00:11:06.367 On Easter Sunday, I was in my office 148 00:11:06.367 --> 00:11:09.670 With a private investigator who worked for me 149 00:11:09.670 --> 00:11:11.200 Named Ben Klugman, and we were dealing 150 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:14.167 With a client when the phone rang. 151 00:11:14.167 --> 00:11:15.700 (Phone ringing) 152 00:11:15.700 --> 00:11:16.967 Now who calls on Easter? 153 00:11:16.967 --> 00:11:19.500 Would you excuse us for just a second? 154 00:11:20.533 --> 00:11:22.400 The Grant Company, how may I help you? 155 00:11:22.400 --> 00:11:24.867 [Tom] And it was a woman's voice on the other end, 156 00:11:24.867 --> 00:11:26.700 Kind of a raspy, low voice. 157 00:11:26.700 --> 00:11:29.167 Now if someone is unlawfully using your credit cards, 158 00:11:29.167 --> 00:11:31.667 Maybe the police are the better people to call. 159 00:11:31.667 --> 00:11:34.233 [Tom] And then she said, "My husband and I are" 160 00:11:34.233 --> 00:11:38.267 "Kinda famous, and we need to get this done right away." 161 00:11:39.933 --> 00:11:41.233 And your husband's name? 162 00:11:41.233 --> 00:11:42.567 Are you kidding me? 163 00:11:42.567 --> 00:11:43.833 No, no. 164 00:11:43.833 --> 00:11:46.670 I was about 47 at the time; Ben Klugman, 165 00:11:46.670 --> 00:11:48.133 My investigator, was 29. 166 00:11:48.133 --> 00:11:50.333 He immediately knew who they were 167 00:11:50.333 --> 00:11:53.600 And what had been going on, even in Rome 168 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:55.233 Just a few weeks earlier. 169 00:11:55.233 --> 00:11:57.833 Because it was a holiday, of course, there were very few, 170 00:11:57.833 --> 00:12:00.967 If any, other private investigators working, so she went 171 00:12:00.967 --> 00:12:03.233 Through the Yellow Pages and she found our ad 172 00:12:03.233 --> 00:12:06.367 And I was probably one of many that she called, 173 00:12:06.367 --> 00:12:07.833 And I think she was probably surprised 174 00:12:07.833 --> 00:12:09.767 To have the phone picked up. 175 00:12:09.767 --> 00:12:11.300 What room number? 176 00:12:12.670 --> 00:12:15.670 It's not very often that a private investigator goes 177 00:12:15.670 --> 00:12:18.933 Against his client, so I'm sure she regrets hiring me. 178 00:12:22.267 --> 00:12:24.100 When we were available to meet Courtney 179 00:12:24.100 --> 00:12:27.633 At the Peninsula Hotel, first thing she said, 180 00:12:27.633 --> 00:12:30.100 And this is her words, they're not mine, 181 00:12:32.933 --> 00:12:37.200 You leak this to the press, I'll sue the fuck out of you. 182 00:12:38.833 --> 00:12:41.500 Well, hello to you too. (Laughing) 183 00:12:41.500 --> 00:12:43.167 How ya doin'? 184 00:12:46.670 --> 00:12:48.133 Kurtis came from rehab a couple days ago. 185 00:12:48.133 --> 00:12:49.833 He bought a ticket back to Seattle, but nobody's seen him 186 00:12:49.833 --> 00:12:51.267 Since he got back. 187 00:12:51.267 --> 00:12:53.267 When I first entered the room, she was wearing 188 00:12:53.267 --> 00:12:58.670 A negligee nightgown, totally see-through. 189 00:12:58.670 --> 00:13:01.700 She might as well have had nothing on whatsoever. 190 00:13:04.670 --> 00:13:05.267 [Courtney] I called the credit card companies 191 00:13:05.267 --> 00:13:07.333 And told them that the card was stolen 192 00:13:07.333 --> 00:13:09.670 And that they should cancel it. 193 00:13:11.233 --> 00:13:12.333 [Tom] Was it? 194 00:13:12.900 --> 00:13:14.670 [Courtney] What? 195 00:13:15.670 --> 00:13:16.533 [Tom] Stolen. 196 00:13:16.533 --> 00:13:18.670 [Courtney] No. 197 00:13:18.567 --> 00:13:21.400 Courtney eventually told us that Kurt's credit card 198 00:13:21.400 --> 00:13:24.670 Actually wasn't stolen, that she had called the 199 00:13:24.670 --> 00:13:27.633 Credit card company and canceled it so that nobody 200 00:13:27.633 --> 00:13:29.670 Could use it. 201 00:13:29.670 --> 00:13:31.600 She felt that that would, essentially, cut him off 202 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:33.800 From any funds. 203 00:13:34.400 --> 00:13:36.433 I'm sure your husband has another way of getting money. 204 00:13:36.433 --> 00:13:37.800 [Courtney] Are you kidding me? 205 00:13:37.800 --> 00:13:39.700 Kurt is helpless, he doesn't have any friends. 206 00:13:39.700 --> 00:13:42.300 Again, in her words, "You don't understand." 207 00:13:42.300 --> 00:13:43.567 "This guy can't even catch a..." 208 00:13:43.567 --> 00:13:46.100 Fucking cab by himself if he wanted to! 209 00:13:46.833 --> 00:13:47.600 [Woman] Hey. 210 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:48.800 [Courtney] Hey. 211 00:13:56.933 --> 00:13:58.600 That's my drug dealer. 212 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:02.300 I didn't know at the time that this was supposed 213 00:14:02.300 --> 00:14:04.933 To be an in-house rehab. 214 00:14:04.933 --> 00:14:08.667 I learned that later, but a total farce. 215 00:14:08.667 --> 00:14:10.800 Most of the time I was with her, she was either 216 00:14:10.800 --> 00:14:13.667 On drugs or doing drugs. 217 00:14:13.667 --> 00:14:16.333 There was nobody overseeing what was going on there. 218 00:14:16.333 --> 00:14:18.600 [Courtney] Listen, Kurt escaped from rehab, 219 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:21.367 He bought a shotgun, and I just feel like something bad 220 00:14:21.367 --> 00:14:22.900 Is gonna happen, okay? 221 00:14:22.900 --> 00:14:25.533 In the middle of all this conversation, she keeps talking 222 00:14:25.533 --> 00:14:28.100 About how suicidal he is, and how everybody thinks 223 00:14:28.100 --> 00:14:29.800 He's gonna commit suicide. 224 00:14:29.800 --> 00:14:30.867 [Courtney] Everybody knows it, everybody thinks 225 00:14:30.867 --> 00:14:31.867 He's gonna die. 226 00:14:31.867 --> 00:14:33.670 Hold on a second. 227 00:14:33.670 --> 00:14:35.670 If he bought a shotgun and he's suicidal, 228 00:14:35.670 --> 00:14:36.567 Then dealing with this credit card problem, 229 00:14:36.567 --> 00:14:39.200 That's the least important thing we could help you with. 230 00:14:39.867 --> 00:14:43.233 [Courtney] Okay, well that's where I want you to start. 231 00:14:45.670 --> 00:14:47.867 She started off with a lie when we first talked to her 232 00:14:47.867 --> 00:14:50.867 On the phone, saying why she wanted to hire us, 233 00:14:50.867 --> 00:14:54.233 Which wasn't true, and then she starts telling us 234 00:14:54.233 --> 00:14:56.267 These other things that just didn't add up. 235 00:14:56.267 --> 00:14:58.733 They weren't logical, they didn't make sense. 236 00:14:58.733 --> 00:15:01.733 So all kinds of red flags started popping up. 237 00:15:01.733 --> 00:15:03.100 I dunno what's gonna happen with this case, 238 00:15:03.100 --> 00:15:05.933 But we are gonna document everything. 239 00:15:06.567 --> 00:15:09.670 Looking back on that day, it turned out to be a day 240 00:15:09.670 --> 00:15:13.533 That really changed my life forever. 241 00:15:13.533 --> 00:15:16.200 The name Kurt Cobain goes through my mind, 242 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:19.900 Probably three or 400 times a day, at least, 243 00:15:19.900 --> 00:15:24.100 And it has for the last 20 years, by necessity, 244 00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:26.633 Because of the e-mails I get, the letters I get, 245 00:15:26.633 --> 00:15:29.933 And all the other stuff, because he was so famous, 246 00:15:29.933 --> 00:15:33.900 And it gets a little bit old after a while, 247 00:15:33.900 --> 00:15:36.670 Just thinking Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain. 248 00:15:36.670 --> 00:15:38.670 [Voiceover] Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain, 249 00:15:38.670 --> 00:15:39.833 Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain. 250 00:15:39.833 --> 00:15:44.833 (Rock music) 251 00:16:10.167 --> 00:16:15.133 (Rock music) 252 00:16:25.833 --> 00:16:27.433 Growing up in Aberdeen, 253 00:16:29.670 --> 00:16:31.400 Basically not a whole lot to do. 254 00:16:31.400 --> 00:16:33.567 Nine months out of the year is very dreary, 255 00:16:33.567 --> 00:16:35.500 Very overcast, lotsa rain. 256 00:16:35.500 --> 00:16:39.567 It's kinda hard living in this area and not being depressed. 257 00:16:39.567 --> 00:16:41.700 Employment opportunities in Aberdeen, 258 00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:45.367 There's not a whole lot. 259 00:16:45.367 --> 00:16:48.300 For the most part, we were lower-middle class. 260 00:16:48.300 --> 00:16:50.767 I don't think we would be considered poor, 261 00:16:50.767 --> 00:16:52.400 We certainly didn't go hungry. 262 00:16:52.400 --> 00:16:54.133 The first two weeks of the month, everybody gets 263 00:16:54.133 --> 00:16:56.533 Their welfare check, the bars are packed. 264 00:16:56.533 --> 00:16:58.833 The last two weeks of the month, the bars are empty 265 00:16:58.833 --> 00:17:02.900 And that's pretty much the state of living. (Laughing) 266 00:17:02.900 --> 00:17:04.800 Kurt used to live across the street, 267 00:17:04.800 --> 00:17:06.967 And his mother and him, they'd sit out there and argue 268 00:17:06.967 --> 00:17:11.467 For a half hour or 45 minutes, and the wife and I slept up 269 00:17:11.467 --> 00:17:15.200 In the upstairs bedroom, so we used to hear it. (Laughing) 270 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:19.670 I knew Kurt Cobain from the high school. 271 00:17:19.670 --> 00:17:22.800 He ran around with my two oldest sons. 272 00:17:22.800 --> 00:17:25.500 The couch I'm sitting on now is the couch 273 00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:27.567 That Kurt slept on. 274 00:17:27.567 --> 00:17:32.567 He stayed for a few days, and then a few days more, 275 00:17:32.967 --> 00:17:37.967 And it just sorta stretched out to be about a year. 276 00:17:38.833 --> 00:17:42.700 It's a depressing atmosphere, but I also think 277 00:17:42.700 --> 00:17:45.333 At the same time, that's why we have so many bands 278 00:17:45.333 --> 00:17:47.100 From all over Washington State. 279 00:17:47.100 --> 00:17:48.333 There was nothing to do. 280 00:17:48.333 --> 00:17:52.670 It rained constantly, so what you had to do was 281 00:17:52.670 --> 00:17:53.333 You had to improvise. 282 00:17:53.333 --> 00:17:55.300 People tended to pick up instruments and play, 283 00:17:55.300 --> 00:17:57.670 And I think that just affected the music 284 00:17:57.670 --> 00:17:58.767 For this whole region in general. 285 00:17:58.767 --> 00:18:02.100 In our neighborhood, we lived a block away 286 00:18:02.100 --> 00:18:05.433 From the group that became the Melvins. 287 00:18:05.433 --> 00:18:09.367 Metal Church lived in the house next door. 288 00:18:09.367 --> 00:18:12.400 We had examples of people who made it. 289 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:14.667 I used to see him with his drum sticks beat 290 00:18:14.667 --> 00:18:18.133 On the stop signs, on the fences, and his dad had 291 00:18:18.133 --> 00:18:21.933 A old Ford pickup, he used to beat on that. (Laughing) 292 00:18:21.933 --> 00:18:25.670 When he first saw the Melvins live for the first time, 293 00:18:25.670 --> 00:18:27.300 He just knew that that was what he wanted to do. 294 00:18:27.300 --> 00:18:29.667 The day that changed his life. 295 00:18:29.667 --> 00:18:32.967 Before Nirvana, we were called Skid Row, 296 00:18:32.967 --> 00:18:35.133 And then we went from Skid Row and we played live 297 00:18:35.133 --> 00:18:37.700 On the radio, a midnight show on Chaos. 298 00:18:37.700 --> 00:18:40.433 The very next day, I showed up at Kurt's 299 00:18:40.433 --> 00:18:43.433 And Kurt had his easel and he was paintin' 300 00:18:43.433 --> 00:18:46.333 This picture, and I looked at it and I go, 301 00:18:46.333 --> 00:18:47.333 "What the hell?" 302 00:18:47.333 --> 00:18:50.267 It was a painting of a giant pen 303 00:18:50.267 --> 00:18:52.200 With its cap all chewed up. 304 00:18:53.670 --> 00:18:55.167 From that day on, we were called Pencap Chew. 305 00:18:55.167 --> 00:18:56.700 We did some shows as Pencap Chew, 306 00:18:56.700 --> 00:19:00.833 And Kurt tired of that, so we're Ted Ed Fred. 307 00:19:00.833 --> 00:19:03.667 They don't like that no more, so we're gonna be Bliss. 308 00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:06.167 The fourth name was Bliss, 309 00:19:06.167 --> 00:19:08.900 And then the fifth name was Nirvana. 310 00:19:10.333 --> 00:19:12.933 I didn't see him as being particularly 311 00:19:12.933 --> 00:19:15.633 Different emotionally from any of us. 312 00:19:15.633 --> 00:19:17.567 I think people tended to read him wrong, 313 00:19:17.567 --> 00:19:19.500 Just because he was a quiet person. 314 00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:22.200 I don't see Kurt as being depressed at all, 315 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:24.670 I see him as being optimistic. 316 00:19:24.670 --> 00:19:26.367 He gave me a lotta hope, 317 00:19:26.367 --> 00:19:28.200 To hopefully, some day, get outta this area 318 00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:30.670 With my music. 319 00:19:30.670 --> 00:19:33.233 Nirvana, Mudhoney and the Melvins was doing something. 320 00:19:33.233 --> 00:19:34.667 It was proactive. 321 00:19:34.667 --> 00:19:38.667 To me, that takes courage, and he had that courage, 322 00:19:38.667 --> 00:19:41.533 And that was the big difference. 323 00:19:41.533 --> 00:19:45.670 He had so much talent and tremendous amount 324 00:19:45.670 --> 00:19:48.500 Of creativity to give, so it's unlimited, 325 00:19:48.500 --> 00:19:50.133 What he could've done. 326 00:19:50.533 --> 00:19:53.567 It would be nice to, eventually, start playing 327 00:19:53.567 --> 00:19:57.267 Acoustic guitars and be thought of as a singer 328 00:19:57.267 --> 00:20:00.600 And a songwriter rather than a grunge rocker. 329 00:20:01.167 --> 00:20:03.670 Because then I might be able to take advantage of that 330 00:20:03.670 --> 00:20:05.600 When I'm older and sit down on a chair 331 00:20:05.600 --> 00:20:09.567 And play acoustic guitar like Johnny Cash or something, 332 00:20:10.467 --> 00:20:13.767 And it won't be a big joke, but who knows? 333 00:20:15.100 --> 00:20:17.200 My last real memory of Kurt 334 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:21.167 And it's not a good thing for me, but I was on my way 335 00:20:21.167 --> 00:20:22.800 To work and I had to get gas. 336 00:20:22.800 --> 00:20:24.633 I stopped in at one of my former employers 337 00:20:24.633 --> 00:20:27.667 And I was gettin' gas for my car, and they actually 338 00:20:27.667 --> 00:20:29.333 Had the radio playing. 339 00:20:31.967 --> 00:20:33.700 They overheard it on the radio and stuff, 340 00:20:33.700 --> 00:20:36.400 Standing, paying for my gas, and it was like... 341 00:20:39.933 --> 00:20:41.867 I can't forget that day. 342 00:20:48.700 --> 00:20:53.700 (Eerie guitar music) 343 00:20:56.533 --> 00:20:57.533 [Courtney] I called the credit card company 344 00:20:57.533 --> 00:21:00.933 Like you said, and 345 00:21:02.667 --> 00:21:04.670 They told me he also bought two tickets 346 00:21:04.670 --> 00:21:05.333 On United Airlines. 347 00:21:05.867 --> 00:21:07.100 [Older man] Where to? 348 00:21:07.100 --> 00:21:09.600 They don't know, or they won't tell me. 349 00:21:10.933 --> 00:21:13.233 All they told me was how much he paid for 'em. 350 00:21:13.233 --> 00:21:15.300 So, I dunno. 351 00:21:19.267 --> 00:21:21.600 Maybe he's going to hang out with Michael again. 352 00:21:21.600 --> 00:21:22.733 Michael. 353 00:21:22.733 --> 00:21:24.100 Stipe. 354 00:21:25.733 --> 00:21:27.867 Lead singer of R.E.M? 355 00:21:30.667 --> 00:21:35.500 Anyway, I figure he flies up, gets his guitar 356 00:21:35.500 --> 00:21:37.500 From Seattle and then he flies down to Atlanta, 357 00:21:37.500 --> 00:21:38.700 But he has two tickets. 358 00:21:38.700 --> 00:21:41.670 Did he buy a ticket for someone else? 359 00:21:41.667 --> 00:21:46.467 (Crying) 360 00:21:46.467 --> 00:21:49.133 I think Kurt wants a divorce. 361 00:21:49.133 --> 00:21:50.800 Why would you say that? 362 00:21:50.800 --> 00:21:55.467 He left me a note in Rome, he said he's leaving me. 363 00:21:56.100 --> 00:21:58.433 The subject of divorce came up almost every time 364 00:21:58.433 --> 00:22:00.100 We talked after that. 365 00:22:00.100 --> 00:22:02.633 Whenever Courtney referred to divorce, 366 00:22:02.633 --> 00:22:04.567 She would usually say something like... 367 00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:11.367 The only way that a divorce is gonna happen is 368 00:22:11.367 --> 00:22:13.800 If I bust him for infidelity. 369 00:22:14.500 --> 00:22:15.300 Has he been unfaithful? 370 00:22:15.300 --> 00:22:18.533 Yes! Yes, I think so. 371 00:22:18.533 --> 00:22:21.333 Courtney, on several occasions, mentioned that she thought 372 00:22:21.333 --> 00:22:24.533 Kurt might be having an affair with Kristen Pfaff, 373 00:22:24.533 --> 00:22:25.967 Her bass player. 374 00:22:25.967 --> 00:22:28.967 She was very jealous, and she also felt like he might 375 00:22:28.967 --> 00:22:31.670 Be having an affair with Caitlin. 376 00:22:31.670 --> 00:22:32.333 His drug dealer. 377 00:22:32.333 --> 00:22:34.933 If Kurt's in Seattle, he's with her. 378 00:22:34.933 --> 00:22:37.233 She seemed to be very jealous of anybody 379 00:22:37.233 --> 00:22:40.200 That got near Kurt, and wanted to know every little move 380 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:42.133 That he made. 381 00:22:46.600 --> 00:22:50.967 So I planted a story in the news yesterday, 382 00:22:50.967 --> 00:22:55.433 Saying that I had OD'ed and that I was in the hospital, 383 00:22:55.433 --> 00:22:58.500 Thinking that Kurt would get scared and call me. 384 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:00.867 I dunno, it's like... 385 00:23:01.667 --> 00:23:04.933 I've got this record coming out in a week, 386 00:23:05.667 --> 00:23:10.667 And so I know the value of this, but I didn't think about it 387 00:23:11.167 --> 00:23:12.467 When it first happened, but 388 00:23:15.867 --> 00:23:18.800 (Laughing) 389 00:23:18.800 --> 00:23:22.267 Anyway, what do I tell this guy from the Associated Press? 390 00:23:22.267 --> 00:23:26.670 Should I call and confirm it, and so the story goes out, 391 00:23:26.670 --> 00:23:27.467 And say I was there? 392 00:23:27.467 --> 00:23:29.467 I tell you what, and this is just my gut instinct 393 00:23:29.467 --> 00:23:30.667 Yeah. 394 00:23:51.700 --> 00:23:53.333 That way there's no drugs involved 395 00:23:53.333 --> 00:23:55.670 And the sympathy goes to me. 396 00:23:58.700 --> 00:24:01.933 (Laughing) The press always perceives me as just completely 397 00:24:01.933 --> 00:24:06.670 Tragic and fucked up anyway, so I don't know. 398 00:24:14.733 --> 00:24:18.433 Thank you very much, that's a lot of information, 399 00:24:18.767 --> 00:24:20.500 And we'll go do our job. 400 00:24:36.233 --> 00:24:40.233 We were already convinced that Tom was sincere, 401 00:24:40.233 --> 00:24:41.633 That he believed what he was saying. 402 00:24:41.633 --> 00:24:43.233 He certainly wasn't lying. 403 00:24:43.233 --> 00:24:45.900 He brought us into this office with a safe, 404 00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:49.333 Opened the safe, and there was this trove of cassette tapes, 405 00:24:49.333 --> 00:24:51.767 Just hours and hours of tapes. 406 00:24:52.600 --> 00:24:55.100 And then he starts playing us the tapes. 407 00:24:56.670 --> 00:24:59.700 And the facts were there. 408 00:25:11.567 --> 00:25:14.733 She's just, coming across as very controlling 409 00:25:14.733 --> 00:25:16.633 And very angry. 410 00:25:33.533 --> 00:25:36.567 Something was going on that was outta the ordinary, 411 00:25:36.567 --> 00:25:40.333 And there was more to this than what I was being told. 412 00:25:40.333 --> 00:25:41.833 [Courtney] I called Seattle Police, 413 00:25:42.633 --> 00:25:44.733 Filed a missing person's report. 414 00:25:44.733 --> 00:25:46.467 [Tom] Did they ask when you were comin' back? 415 00:25:46.467 --> 00:25:49.300 She filed it in the name of Wendy O'Connor, 416 00:25:49.300 --> 00:25:51.670 Kurt Cobain's mother. 417 00:25:57.167 --> 00:25:58.933 [Courtney] If I filed it under my own name. 418 00:25:58.933 --> 00:26:01.100 So all the media that went out after that 419 00:26:01.100 --> 00:26:03.767 That said Kurt's mother filed a missing person's report 420 00:26:03.767 --> 00:26:05.200 Was totally false. 421 00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:07.667 On April 4th, Kurt Cobain's mother, Wendy O'Connor, 422 00:26:07.667 --> 00:26:10.133 Filed a missing person's report on her son 423 00:26:10.133 --> 00:26:12.670 Because he reportedly fled a 424 00:26:12.670 --> 00:26:13.767 Quote end quote, "facility." 425 00:26:13.767 --> 00:26:16.400 She did not clarify whether that was a drug treatment center 426 00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:19.670 Or not, but that's what people are speculating. 427 00:26:19.670 --> 00:26:21.433 She was worried about Kurt because he had a shotgun 428 00:26:21.433 --> 00:26:22.667 In his possession. 429 00:26:22.667 --> 00:26:25.733 She considered him suicidal. 430 00:26:25.733 --> 00:26:27.767 [Courtney] That should get things going, right? 431 00:26:28.133 --> 00:26:29.100 [Tom] Right. 432 00:26:29.333 --> 00:26:30.633 [Courtney] What about Caitlin? 433 00:26:30.633 --> 00:26:32.467 I know that they're together. 434 00:26:32.467 --> 00:26:33.833 [Tom] I've got someone watching her apartment. 435 00:26:33.833 --> 00:26:35.233 He hasn't showed up. 436 00:26:35.233 --> 00:26:36.700 I wanna put someone on your house too, 437 00:26:36.700 --> 00:26:39.600 Because sooner or later he's gonna come home. 438 00:26:40.167 --> 00:26:42.767 [Courtney] But if Kurt's still in Seattle, 439 00:26:42.767 --> 00:26:47.100 He's hiding out, he's not gonna be at the house. 440 00:26:48.567 --> 00:26:52.667 He likes to stay in hotels, fancy hotels downtown. 441 00:26:56.167 --> 00:26:58.733 He uses the name Simon Richie. 442 00:26:59.867 --> 00:27:02.633 Mm, mm, or Bill Bailey. 443 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:04.833 You should check that out. 444 00:27:06.567 --> 00:27:08.233 The next day, on Monday, when we hadn't had 445 00:27:08.233 --> 00:27:12.700 Any success with the really nice hotels in Seattle, 446 00:27:12.700 --> 00:27:16.667 We began calling some of the other smaller motels, 447 00:27:16.667 --> 00:27:20.233 And we located a motel, and there was a 448 00:27:20.233 --> 00:27:22.600 Bill Bailey registered there. 449 00:27:22.600 --> 00:27:23.800 I wanna send one of our guys over there 450 00:27:23.800 --> 00:27:25.300 To see if it's Kurt. 451 00:27:25.300 --> 00:27:26.267 [Courtney] No no no no no no, I don't want Kurt to know 452 00:27:26.267 --> 00:27:27.700 That I'm looking for him. 453 00:27:27.700 --> 00:27:29.670 Send somebody over there, 454 00:27:29.670 --> 00:27:31.667 Just have them watch the hotel, okay? 455 00:27:32.300 --> 00:27:33.867 Okay. 456 00:27:36.367 --> 00:27:38.867 I dunno, 15 or 20 minutes went by. 457 00:27:38.867 --> 00:27:41.133 What do you mean you called the hotel? 458 00:27:41.133 --> 00:27:43.200 I thought that you said that you didn't want Kurt to... 459 00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:45.670 [Courtney] No! I, Tom... 460 00:27:45.670 --> 00:27:49.670 Okay, listen, if he's not there, 461 00:27:49.670 --> 00:27:50.433 Then I think we need to set up a team 462 00:27:50.433 --> 00:27:51.733 At the Lake Washington house. 463 00:27:51.733 --> 00:27:53.200 It's a waste of time, Tom. 464 00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:55.670 You know what, he's not gonna be there. 465 00:27:55.670 --> 00:27:57.670 Is there a reason that you don't want surveillance 466 00:27:57.670 --> 00:27:58.670 On your house? 467 00:27:58.670 --> 00:28:00.300 Yes, because we don't need it. 468 00:28:00.300 --> 00:28:03.200 Cali's there, he'll tell me if Kurt shows up. 469 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:08.200 (Ominous music) 470 00:28:17.633 --> 00:28:19.900 [Tom] Earlier in the day in a conversation, 471 00:28:19.900 --> 00:28:21.867 Courtney told me she didn't trust Cali, 472 00:28:21.867 --> 00:28:24.333 And she said he's one of the best liars she's ever met. 473 00:28:24.333 --> 00:28:25.933 But now, all of a sudden, she tells me 474 00:28:25.933 --> 00:28:27.670 He won't tell anybody. 475 00:28:27.670 --> 00:28:32.670 (Ominous music) 476 00:28:36.567 --> 00:28:37.500 [Tom] I'm not as effective for you here 477 00:28:37.500 --> 00:28:38.867 As I would be up there. 478 00:28:38.867 --> 00:28:41.400 I'd like to move the entire search up to Seattle. 479 00:28:42.467 --> 00:28:44.533 I know I got guys on the ground there, local guys, 480 00:28:44.533 --> 00:28:48.133 And if I were there I could move 'em along a little. 481 00:28:48.700 --> 00:28:50.967 That's fine, you can go. 482 00:28:51.467 --> 00:28:54.167 That's great, that's great. 483 00:28:54.167 --> 00:28:55.500 [Woman] Why don't you go up there, Courtney? 484 00:28:55.500 --> 00:28:57.500 [Courtney] Because I can't! 485 00:28:57.500 --> 00:29:00.670 I have business to take care of here. 486 00:29:01.100 --> 00:29:02.400 Look, I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell anyone 487 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:03.900 I was traveling up there. 488 00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:06.200 If anyone knows, they might tell Kurt, 489 00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:08.400 And then he could flee. 490 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:11.333 [Courtney] Absolutely, I think it's a really good idea. 491 00:29:12.670 --> 00:29:14.733 Okay, I'm gonna get goin'. 492 00:29:19.333 --> 00:29:22.467 [Courtney] Save the American icon, Tom. 493 00:29:22.467 --> 00:29:27.467 (Ominous music) 494 00:29:29.467 --> 00:29:34.467 (Rock music) 495 00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:53.300 As I was getting ready to fly to Seattle, 496 00:29:53.300 --> 00:29:55.800 Courtney told me about Dylan Carlson. 497 00:29:55.800 --> 00:29:58.670 Dylan knew all the hangouts, he knew the house 498 00:29:58.670 --> 00:29:59.633 Really well. 499 00:29:59.633 --> 00:30:02.200 Kurt's best friend was Dylan Carlson. 500 00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:05.167 So what are you thinkin', is he suicidal? 501 00:30:05.167 --> 00:30:06.967 No, not at all. 502 00:30:07.933 --> 00:30:09.733 He's been under a lotta pressure but he's been handling 503 00:30:09.733 --> 00:30:11.567 Things pretty good. 504 00:30:11.567 --> 00:30:12.933 I know he and Courtney have been having 505 00:30:12.933 --> 00:30:15.533 A lotta troubles lately, but... 506 00:30:17.600 --> 00:30:19.467 I don't know why Kurt married her. 507 00:30:19.467 --> 00:30:21.433 They don't get along, they don't agree about anything, 508 00:30:21.433 --> 00:30:24.267 They're always fighting, that type of thing. 509 00:30:24.267 --> 00:30:27.200 This thing in Rome, did anybody say 510 00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:29.733 That that may have been him tryin' to kill himself? 511 00:30:29.733 --> 00:30:32.200 No, it was an accident. 512 00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:33.800 Everybody knows that. 513 00:30:33.800 --> 00:30:35.900 I asked him several times about whether Kurt was 514 00:30:35.900 --> 00:30:39.600 Suicidal or not, and it was almost a joke to him. 515 00:30:39.600 --> 00:30:41.433 It was like, "No, of course not." 516 00:30:41.433 --> 00:30:45.333 'Cause I'm thinkin' if he was as suicidal 517 00:30:45.333 --> 00:30:47.867 As she says he is, why would she let him buy a shotgun? 518 00:30:47.867 --> 00:30:49.967 He's not suicidal. 519 00:30:49.967 --> 00:30:52.400 We bought that shotgun the day he went to rehab, 520 00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:54.767 Been a burglary at the house recently. 521 00:30:54.767 --> 00:30:57.133 The police had just confiscated his other gun, 522 00:30:57.133 --> 00:30:59.433 So I registered it in my name. 523 00:31:01.833 --> 00:31:04.100 Trust me, if he was suicidal, I would never let him 524 00:31:04.100 --> 00:31:05.933 Get a shotgun. 525 00:31:10.867 --> 00:31:13.670 Singer Courtney Love says Cobain had first written 526 00:31:13.670 --> 00:31:15.567 A suicide note to her which said, in part, 527 00:31:15.567 --> 00:31:19.670 "It's not fun for me anymore, I can't live this life." 528 00:31:19.670 --> 00:31:21.167 There was a mythology that, "Oh yeah", 529 00:31:21.167 --> 00:31:22.867 "Everybody knew he was suicidal," 530 00:31:22.867 --> 00:31:25.133 "That was just obvious," 531 00:31:25.133 --> 00:31:27.933 So it was no big surprise when he finally killed himself. 532 00:31:27.933 --> 00:31:30.100 And then you go to those closest to him, 533 00:31:30.100 --> 00:31:32.670 The people that knew him best, 534 00:31:32.670 --> 00:31:34.800 And none of them believed he was suicidal. 535 00:31:34.800 --> 00:31:38.670 I've never heard Kurt talk about suicide or anything, 536 00:31:38.670 --> 00:31:39.833 He always seemed happy around me. 537 00:31:39.833 --> 00:31:42.733 Quiet, shy, but definitely happy. 538 00:31:42.733 --> 00:31:45.600 Never hinted to me that he was depressed. 539 00:31:45.600 --> 00:31:49.533 His music and his lyrics portrayed a darker side 540 00:31:49.533 --> 00:31:53.500 To some of his emotions, but I think that was glorified. 541 00:31:53.500 --> 00:31:55.767 People start to analyze the lyrics and look at some 542 00:31:55.767 --> 00:31:57.633 Of the things that he wrote and say, 543 00:31:57.633 --> 00:31:59.567 "Of course, look at what he wrote here." 544 00:31:59.567 --> 00:32:02.233 "Obviously he's talking about suicide." 545 00:32:02.233 --> 00:32:05.333 I'm tired of people thinking, trying to put 546 00:32:05.333 --> 00:32:07.633 Too much meaning into my lyrics. 547 00:32:07.633 --> 00:32:09.670 A lotta times when I write lyrics, which is 548 00:32:09.670 --> 00:32:12.333 At the last second 'cause I'm really lazy. 549 00:32:12.333 --> 00:32:14.267 And then I find myself having to come up 550 00:32:14.267 --> 00:32:16.233 With explanations for it. 551 00:32:16.700 --> 00:32:20.100 There may be one or two lines in a song here and there, 552 00:32:20.100 --> 00:32:23.433 But I swear to God, brother, it's really not 553 00:32:23.433 --> 00:32:25.567 As much as it seems. 554 00:32:25.567 --> 00:32:27.767 The pain in his stomach, this was a big thing 555 00:32:27.767 --> 00:32:30.633 This stomach pain that he'd been suffering for years 556 00:32:30.633 --> 00:32:33.633 Was so severe that it made him wanna kill himself. 557 00:32:33.633 --> 00:32:35.800 He did talk like that, there's no question, 558 00:32:35.800 --> 00:32:39.933 And once that was diagnosed, it was treated, 559 00:32:39.933 --> 00:32:41.100 And the pain went away. 560 00:32:41.100 --> 00:32:42.967 [Voiceover] How's your stomach? 561 00:32:42.967 --> 00:32:44.670 Have you found anything to... 562 00:32:44.670 --> 00:32:47.670 (Sighing) It's gone. 563 00:32:47.670 --> 00:32:48.500 - [Voiceover] Yeah? - Yeah. 564 00:32:48.500 --> 00:32:51.833 I finally have been prescribed the right stomach medicine 565 00:32:51.833 --> 00:32:56.833 After six years of being in constant pain, finally. 566 00:32:57.600 --> 00:33:00.800 I haven't had a stomach problem for over a year now. 567 00:33:00.800 --> 00:33:04.967 The stomach pain and the outlook and his disposition 568 00:33:04.967 --> 00:33:07.670 Seem to be very closely linked. 569 00:33:07.670 --> 00:33:08.733 He had given an interview to Rolling Stone, 570 00:33:08.733 --> 00:33:11.267 Where he said he was happier than he'd ever been. 571 00:33:11.267 --> 00:33:12.670 [Voiceover] Is this your idea? 572 00:33:12.670 --> 00:33:13.400 (Kurt burping) 573 00:33:14.633 --> 00:33:18.533 When you hear Courtney spinning this whole 574 00:33:18.533 --> 00:33:23.533 Elaborate timeline about how he tried to commit suicide 575 00:33:23.533 --> 00:33:25.900 Before and he was talking about suicide 576 00:33:25.900 --> 00:33:29.600 To everybody he knew, that just seems to be fiction. 577 00:33:30.333 --> 00:33:32.567 Rather chillingly, Love says that three of Cobain's 578 00:33:32.567 --> 00:33:34.867 Uncles had also committed suicide. 579 00:33:34.867 --> 00:33:37.267 She calls it the Cobain curse. 580 00:33:37.267 --> 00:33:41.100 As far as the suicide history in the Cobain family, 581 00:33:41.100 --> 00:33:43.767 Leland Cobain's father, he was a Monte Santo 582 00:33:43.767 --> 00:33:47.733 Police officer, and he went into a bar one day 583 00:33:47.733 --> 00:33:48.900 And he sat at a bar stool. 584 00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:50.767 This was back in 1938. 585 00:33:50.767 --> 00:33:53.433 His gun somehow dislodged from its holster, 586 00:33:53.433 --> 00:33:56.767 Hit the ground, and according to the report, 587 00:33:56.767 --> 00:33:59.670 He looked around in the bar and asked if everybody 588 00:33:59.670 --> 00:34:00.933 Was okay, and then immediately collapsed. 589 00:34:00.933 --> 00:34:03.100 He just fell dead. 590 00:34:03.767 --> 00:34:06.700 From what Leland has told me about his brother, 591 00:34:06.700 --> 00:34:11.700 His brother was drinking and he fell down a staircase 592 00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:14.670 And died from complications of that. 593 00:34:14.670 --> 00:34:15.233 Neither Kurt's great-grandpa 594 00:34:15.233 --> 00:34:18.167 Or his great-uncle were suicides. 595 00:34:18.933 --> 00:34:20.667 One of the important elements in the case, 596 00:34:20.667 --> 00:34:24.670 And in convincing the world that it was suicide 597 00:34:24.670 --> 00:34:27.533 Was the so-called "Rome suicide attempt." 598 00:34:27.533 --> 00:34:30.167 (Drumming) 599 00:34:30.167 --> 00:34:31.733 Nirvana front-man Kurt Cobain, 600 00:34:31.733 --> 00:34:33.567 Who slipped into a coma and was hospitalized 601 00:34:33.567 --> 00:34:36.100 In Rome, Italy, at about 6AM this morning, was in a state 602 00:34:36.100 --> 00:34:38.800 Of what his management calls "complete collapse." 603 00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:40.400 His condition was apparently aggravated 604 00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:42.670 When he consumed champagne on top of a 605 00:34:42.670 --> 00:34:44.600 Prescription painkiller called Rohypnol. 606 00:34:44.600 --> 00:34:47.867 At the time, the word suicide was never used 607 00:34:47.867 --> 00:34:50.133 By the media, by Courtney, by Kurt. 608 00:34:50.133 --> 00:34:53.367 It was portrayed as an accidental drug overdose. 609 00:34:53.367 --> 00:34:55.467 [Voiceover] He recovered from the coma, and his publicists 610 00:34:55.467 --> 00:34:58.333 Said the incident was an accident, not a suicide attempt. 611 00:34:58.333 --> 00:35:02.100 As soon as Kurt died, first interviews that Courtney gave 612 00:35:02.100 --> 00:35:04.867 She started talking about previous suicide attempts, 613 00:35:04.867 --> 00:35:06.833 Rome was a suicide attempt. 614 00:35:06.833 --> 00:35:08.967 Courtney started telling people 615 00:35:08.967 --> 00:35:12.670 That Kurt had swallowed 60 pills. 616 00:35:13.670 --> 00:35:14.700 You swallow 60 pills, that's not an accident. 617 00:35:14.700 --> 00:35:16.400 That's a suicide attempt. 618 00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:20.133 So we decided to contact the doctor that treated Kurt 619 00:35:20.133 --> 00:35:25.133 In Rome, Doctor Galletta, and he categorically denied 620 00:35:25.367 --> 00:35:28.533 That there were 60 pills in his stomach 621 00:35:28.533 --> 00:35:31.670 And that it was a suicide attempt. 622 00:35:31.670 --> 00:35:34.700 At the time, Kurt and Courtney both said it was 623 00:35:34.700 --> 00:35:37.433 An accident, and the doctor confirmed that. 624 00:35:37.433 --> 00:35:40.233 So there's just no evidence that he had ever tried 625 00:35:40.233 --> 00:35:41.833 To kill himself before. 626 00:35:41.833 --> 00:35:44.767 No anecdotal evidence, nobody else close to Kurt 627 00:35:44.767 --> 00:35:47.833 Ever said that he tried to commit suicide, 628 00:35:47.833 --> 00:35:50.767 But the world just took Courtney's word for it. 629 00:36:26.733 --> 00:36:31.733 (Sad guitar music) 630 00:36:33.433 --> 00:36:35.767 While I was in Seattle with Dylan and we were driving 631 00:36:35.767 --> 00:36:38.100 Around, I mentioned to him that Courtney said 632 00:36:38.100 --> 00:36:41.670 That Kurt only stays in the best hotels, 633 00:36:41.670 --> 00:36:43.700 And he was almost incredulous. 634 00:36:43.700 --> 00:36:45.767 He practically laughed and he said, 635 00:36:45.767 --> 00:36:47.233 "That's ridiculous!" 636 00:36:47.233 --> 00:36:51.200 "He hates fancy hotels, he stays in really cheap places," 637 00:36:51.200 --> 00:36:53.700 "Mostly along the Aurora strip." 638 00:36:53.700 --> 00:36:55.800 Have you seen him or not? 639 00:36:56.633 --> 00:36:57.933 Okay, come on. 640 00:36:57.933 --> 00:37:02.933 (Eerie music) 641 00:37:05.200 --> 00:37:07.700 [Dylan] I'm gonna call Courtney and check in. 642 00:37:07.700 --> 00:37:09.333 I dunno what's goin' on. 643 00:37:09.333 --> 00:37:12.500 Dylan told me that when they did stay at those motels, 644 00:37:12.500 --> 00:37:14.667 They usually stayed for two or three weeks, 645 00:37:14.667 --> 00:37:18.670 Basically living off of Coca Cola and potato chips 646 00:37:18.670 --> 00:37:20.670 And doing their heroin. 647 00:37:27.100 --> 00:37:29.100 Courtney always wanted to go through Dylan, 648 00:37:29.100 --> 00:37:31.500 She wanted to talk to Dylan on the phone 649 00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:34.467 And have Dylan give me the instructions. 650 00:37:34.467 --> 00:37:37.433 Courtney's had some trouble, she was in the hospital 651 00:37:37.433 --> 00:37:39.367 And she got arrested. 652 00:37:39.367 --> 00:37:40.833 What? 653 00:37:40.833 --> 00:37:43.800 She said that it was all a big mistake and she's fine. 654 00:37:44.267 --> 00:37:45.700 She wants us to go back to the house and look 655 00:37:45.700 --> 00:37:47.533 For the shotgun again. 656 00:37:48.200 --> 00:37:49.867 She thinks it might be in the hidden compartment 657 00:37:49.867 --> 00:37:51.567 Of the bedroom closet. 658 00:37:51.567 --> 00:37:53.333 Hidden compartment? 659 00:37:53.333 --> 00:37:55.500 She hadn't mentioned that to us before, 660 00:37:55.500 --> 00:37:57.833 But she said, "That's where Kurt keeps the shotgun", 661 00:37:57.833 --> 00:38:00.300 "So if it's there, that's where it's gonna be." 662 00:38:01.133 --> 00:38:02.633 [Tom] Let's go. 663 00:38:03.733 --> 00:38:08.733 (Ominous music) 664 00:38:19.900 --> 00:38:21.667 Remember this from last night? 665 00:38:21.667 --> 00:38:23.670 [Dylan] No. 666 00:38:23.200 --> 00:38:26.367 The note that was apparently written by Cali 667 00:38:26.367 --> 00:38:27.800 Didn't make sense. 668 00:38:27.800 --> 00:38:31.767 "Kurt, I can't believe you managed to be in this house" 669 00:38:31.767 --> 00:38:33.500 "Without me noticing." 670 00:38:33.500 --> 00:38:36.567 "You're a fucking asshole for not calling Courtney" 671 00:38:36.567 --> 00:38:39.633 "And at least letting her know that you're okay." 672 00:38:39.633 --> 00:38:42.400 "She's in a lot of pain, Kurt, and this morning" 673 00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:44.433 "She had another accident, and now she's" 674 00:38:44.433 --> 00:38:46.567 "In the hospital again." 675 00:38:47.267 --> 00:38:49.400 We looked in that little hidden compartment. 676 00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:51.367 There was no shotgun there. 677 00:38:52.200 --> 00:38:55.300 "She's your wife, she loves you," 678 00:38:55.300 --> 00:38:57.367 "And you have a child together." 679 00:38:57.367 --> 00:39:00.500 "Get it together to at least tell her you're okay," 680 00:39:00.500 --> 00:39:02.400 "Or she is going to die." 681 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:04.167 "It's not fair, man." 682 00:39:04.167 --> 00:39:05.733 "Do something now." 683 00:39:05.733 --> 00:39:10.733 (Eerie music) 684 00:39:15.500 --> 00:39:17.600 Later when I talked to Rosemary Carroll about it 685 00:39:17.600 --> 00:39:19.467 And I told her I was suspicious of it, 686 00:39:19.467 --> 00:39:22.767 She jumped in right away, and she knows Cali real well, too. 687 00:39:51.833 --> 00:39:56.833 (Eerie music) 688 00:40:15.700 --> 00:40:17.967 Dylan and I headed out to the town of Carnation, 689 00:40:17.967 --> 00:40:19.700 Just outside of Seattle. 690 00:40:20.633 --> 00:40:22.733 Kurt and Courtney owned two cabins there, 691 00:40:22.733 --> 00:40:24.833 And we were curious to see if there had been any evidence 692 00:40:24.833 --> 00:40:27.000 Of Kurt being there. 693 00:40:28.670 --> 00:40:32.330 We got about halfway there when we stopped to get gas, 694 00:40:32.330 --> 00:40:34.200 And Dylan made another phone call. 695 00:40:34.200 --> 00:40:39.200 (Ominous music) 696 00:40:45.667 --> 00:40:47.600 [Voiceover] I got a phone call from our electrician, 697 00:40:47.600 --> 00:40:52.500 Gary Smith, and he was doing some security lighting. 698 00:40:52.500 --> 00:40:53.933 We had a house above. 699 00:40:53.933 --> 00:40:55.767 We just knew it was a rock star in Seattle, 700 00:40:55.767 --> 00:40:58.333 We weren't sure, didn't know who he was. 701 00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:01.733 He literally just stumbled across it. 702 00:41:05.767 --> 00:41:08.670 He looked through a doorway, a glass door, 703 00:41:08.670 --> 00:41:11.867 A locked door, and he saw a body. 704 00:41:15.900 --> 00:41:19.670 And he said, "I think he shot himself." 705 00:41:19.670 --> 00:41:21.633 I called a radio station, told 'em what happened. 706 00:41:21.633 --> 00:41:23.900 [Voiceover] So I answered the call and there's a guy 707 00:41:23.900 --> 00:41:26.533 On the end of the line, and he's goin', "I have got" 708 00:41:26.533 --> 00:41:28.800 "Some incredible news here." 709 00:41:29.733 --> 00:41:31.200 [Tom] Anything? 710 00:41:34.367 --> 00:41:36.533 A friend of mine said he just heard they found a body 711 00:41:36.533 --> 00:41:38.700 At Kurt's house. 712 00:41:38.700 --> 00:41:40.167 [Tom] What? 713 00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:47.533 [Voiceover] Rock group Nirvana is dead. 714 00:41:47.533 --> 00:41:49.200 An electrician discovered Cobain's body 715 00:41:49.200 --> 00:41:51.867 In the singer's Lake Washington home this morning. 716 00:41:51.867 --> 00:41:54.267 The electrician tells KOMO news that emergency crews 717 00:41:54.267 --> 00:41:56.800 Told him that the dead man is Kurt Cobain. 718 00:41:56.800 --> 00:41:58.267 [Tom] When I heard that the body was found 719 00:41:58.267 --> 00:42:00.967 In a room that was called the Greenhouse, I turned 720 00:42:00.967 --> 00:42:04.333 To Dylan and I said, "What's the Greenhouse?" 721 00:42:04.333 --> 00:42:06.400 And he said, "It's just a dirty little room" 722 00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:07.633 "Above the garage." 723 00:42:07.633 --> 00:42:09.767 They stored lumber or something in there. 724 00:42:09.767 --> 00:42:11.533 It sounded to me like this was just 725 00:42:11.533 --> 00:42:13.600 Some kinda broom closet or something. 726 00:42:13.600 --> 00:42:14.800 [Voiceover] So do you think he intentionally 727 00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:17.670 Did not tell you to check that room out? 728 00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:19.700 [Tom] Again, I hope the listeners bear in mind 729 00:42:19.700 --> 00:42:21.933 We're having to skip over an awful lotta stuff... 730 00:42:21.933 --> 00:42:26.670 (Eerie music) 731 00:42:26.670 --> 00:42:28.670 I glanced down on the floor and I saw 732 00:42:28.670 --> 00:42:29.967 Something that looked like a mannequin. 733 00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:34.670 I can see blood in this ear, and long hair, 734 00:42:34.670 --> 00:42:37.633 And immediately got a little shaken. 735 00:42:42.133 --> 00:42:44.670 The French doors were locked. 736 00:42:45.667 --> 00:42:47.967 I was first in and right away could see 737 00:42:47.967 --> 00:42:50.200 That it was a fatality. 738 00:42:53.100 --> 00:42:55.133 The shotgun lay in his lap, a significant pool of blood 739 00:42:55.133 --> 00:42:56.767 By his head. 740 00:42:56.767 --> 00:42:58.670 There was nothing we could do for him, 741 00:42:58.670 --> 00:43:00.670 So we didn't touch the body. 742 00:43:01.133 --> 00:43:04.500 We'll check for mail or somethin' with a name on it. 743 00:43:06.700 --> 00:43:08.500 The officer said, "Do you want the name?" 744 00:43:08.500 --> 00:43:10.400 Knowing I needed it for my log book. 745 00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:13.367 He said, "It's Cobain, Kurt Cobain." 746 00:43:14.167 --> 00:43:16.670 A couple of second delay and my head snappin' around, 747 00:43:16.670 --> 00:43:19.670 I said, "You mean the rock star?" 748 00:43:20.670 --> 00:43:22.600 [Voiceover] The developing story shocks the music world. 749 00:43:22.600 --> 00:43:25.767 A man found dead this morning is rock star Kurt Cobain. 750 00:43:25.767 --> 00:43:27.800 [Voiceover] Cobain's body was found about a... 751 00:43:27.800 --> 00:43:29.233 [Voiceover] Apparently it was a suicide... 752 00:43:29.233 --> 00:43:34.167 (Various voiceovers speaking simultaneously) 753 00:43:38.467 --> 00:43:39.767 [Voiceover] Was so severe that his body could only 754 00:43:39.767 --> 00:43:41.833 Be identified by fingerprints. 755 00:43:41.833 --> 00:43:43.400 [Voiceover] Police can't release the details found 756 00:43:43.400 --> 00:43:46.100 In Cobain's suicide note, but over the past couple 757 00:43:46.100 --> 00:43:49.133 Of years, Cobain has had some tough times. 758 00:43:49.133 --> 00:43:50.867 Cobain was 27. 759 00:43:50.867 --> 00:43:54.300 He joins a growing list of rock stars who burn bright 760 00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:56.633 Then burn out tragically. 761 00:43:57.200 --> 00:43:59.670 [Tom] When we arrived at the property 762 00:43:59.670 --> 00:44:01.500 It was broad daylight and the Greenhouse stuck out 763 00:44:01.500 --> 00:44:02.933 Like a sore thumb. 764 00:44:02.933 --> 00:44:05.670 You could see it from the street above the bushes, 765 00:44:05.670 --> 00:44:06.467 It was so tall. 766 00:44:06.467 --> 00:44:10.733 I just didn't understand why he didn't point that out to me. 767 00:44:13.133 --> 00:44:14.733 [Dylan] That's Entertainment Tonight. 768 00:44:15.333 --> 00:44:16.767 He's Rolling Stone. 769 00:44:16.767 --> 00:44:19.100 Dylan didn't like the press and he said Kurt didn't 770 00:44:19.100 --> 00:44:20.600 Like the press. 771 00:44:20.600 --> 00:44:22.867 [Dylan] Current Affairs; stay away from them. 772 00:44:23.433 --> 00:44:24.567 [Officer] Ho ho ho. 773 00:44:24.567 --> 00:44:25.567 [Tom] I'm Tom Grant, how are you? 774 00:44:25.567 --> 00:44:26.933 [Officer] Fine. 775 00:44:26.933 --> 00:44:29.333 [Tom] I was hired by Courtney Love to investigate 776 00:44:29.333 --> 00:44:30.867 The disappearance of her husband. 777 00:44:30.867 --> 00:44:33.600 I've got information I think would be helpful. 778 00:44:33.600 --> 00:44:36.567 Could I speak to the detective in charge? 779 00:44:37.200 --> 00:44:38.670 Wait here. 780 00:44:38.670 --> 00:44:43.670 (Eerie music) 781 00:44:50.567 --> 00:44:52.567 He said he's too busy to speak with you now. 782 00:44:52.567 --> 00:44:55.567 Call the station after 3PM; you can talk to him then. 783 00:44:55.567 --> 00:44:57.567 I was dumbfounded by that. 784 00:44:57.567 --> 00:45:00.933 If I were a police officer investigating the dead body 785 00:45:00.933 --> 00:45:03.867 And somebody told me there was somebody outside 786 00:45:03.867 --> 00:45:06.200 That had been in the house the night before, 787 00:45:06.200 --> 00:45:08.167 I'd tell them, "Hold him." 788 00:45:08.167 --> 00:45:10.867 "If they say they need to leave, handcuff 'em," 789 00:45:10.867 --> 00:45:13.667 "And keep 'em there until we get a chance to talk to 'em." 790 00:45:13.667 --> 00:45:15.300 You don't let somebody like that go, 791 00:45:15.300 --> 00:45:18.667 You don't take a chance until you've fully investigated 792 00:45:18.667 --> 00:45:23.467 A case and determined positively how this person died. 793 00:45:23.467 --> 00:45:24.900 The Seattle Police Department claimed 794 00:45:24.900 --> 00:45:28.100 They were investigating this as a possible homicide. 795 00:45:28.100 --> 00:45:30.500 If they were, they certainly wouldn't allow somebody 796 00:45:30.500 --> 00:45:33.200 To leave when they'd been in the house the night 797 00:45:33.200 --> 00:45:36.333 Before a dead body was found on the property. 798 00:45:36.867 --> 00:45:38.670 I'm Norm Stamper. 799 00:45:38.670 --> 00:45:40.733 I was a police officer for 34 years, 800 00:45:40.733 --> 00:45:45.733 And last six from 1994 to 2000 as Seattle's police chief. 801 00:45:45.900 --> 00:45:48.900 I wouldn't pretend that there aren't police officers 802 00:45:48.900 --> 00:45:53.100 Who are cynical and suspicious and skeptical. 803 00:45:53.100 --> 00:45:57.100 That was the case in the Kurt Cobain death. 804 00:45:59.400 --> 00:46:03.670 (Eerie music) 805 00:46:03.670 --> 00:46:04.800 John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King, 806 00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.533 Elvis Presley, Marilyn Monroe. 807 00:46:07.533 --> 00:46:09.867 Over the past 50 years as a 808 00:46:09.867 --> 00:46:12.167 Medical-legal forensic pathology consultant, 809 00:46:12.167 --> 00:46:15.670 I've been involved in thousands of cases, 810 00:46:15.670 --> 00:46:17.833 About 18,000 autopsies, and I have reviewed, 811 00:46:17.833 --> 00:46:20.867 Signed off or supervised, and evaluated 812 00:46:20.867 --> 00:46:23.600 About 38,000 other autopsies. 813 00:46:23.600 --> 00:46:25.600 I have personally investigated, supervised, 814 00:46:25.600 --> 00:46:28.433 Consulted and researched on over 8,000 homicides. 815 00:46:28.433 --> 00:46:30.900 I wrote Practical Homicide Investigation because there was 816 00:46:30.900 --> 00:46:35.433 A need for a standard protocol to approach all death scenes. 817 00:46:35.433 --> 00:46:38.533 From the very beginning, everything that the detectives 818 00:46:38.533 --> 00:46:42.633 Encountered indicated to them that this was a suicide. 819 00:46:42.633 --> 00:46:47.600 The decision to rule the case by police the same day 820 00:46:47.600 --> 00:46:49.967 And to make a public pronouncement that this was 821 00:46:49.967 --> 00:46:54.333 A suicide is not the way good police agencies 822 00:46:54.333 --> 00:46:55.767 Would function today. 823 00:46:55.767 --> 00:46:57.267 As a homicide commander, 824 00:46:57.267 --> 00:46:59.670 I would not be making any proclamations 825 00:46:59.670 --> 00:47:02.300 That the case was a suicide without the evidence 826 00:47:02.300 --> 00:47:04.300 Having been processed: the victimology, 827 00:47:04.300 --> 00:47:06.833 The medical-legal process, toxicology. 828 00:47:06.833 --> 00:47:08.233 It's a death investigation. 829 00:47:08.233 --> 00:47:10.700 They knew nothing about the drug level, 830 00:47:10.700 --> 00:47:13.670 They knew nothing about fingerprints, 831 00:47:13.670 --> 00:47:15.670 They knew nothing about anything else at that time 832 00:47:15.670 --> 00:47:17.300 Except that they had found him with a shotgun. 833 00:47:17.300 --> 00:47:19.700 The reason we call things death investigations is 834 00:47:19.700 --> 00:47:21.933 That we don't wanna prematurely make them 835 00:47:21.933 --> 00:47:24.670 Homicides, suicides or accidents. 836 00:47:24.670 --> 00:47:25.700 It's a death investigation. 837 00:47:25.700 --> 00:47:29.600 Cases that involve prominent figures, 838 00:47:29.600 --> 00:47:34.367 These cases usually take more time because you know 839 00:47:34.367 --> 00:47:36.233 That there are gonna be more questions. 840 00:47:36.233 --> 00:47:37.833 People are gonna wanna know every single 841 00:47:37.833 --> 00:47:38.967 Thing about it. 842 00:47:38.967 --> 00:47:40.667 In the Philip Seymour Hoffman case, 843 00:47:40.667 --> 00:47:43.200 They found him with a needle in his arm. 844 00:47:43.200 --> 00:47:46.300 They found 50 bags of heroin right there 845 00:47:46.300 --> 00:47:48.367 In his apartment, and yet they did not make 846 00:47:48.367 --> 00:47:50.267 Any announcement beyond that. 847 00:47:50.267 --> 00:47:52.567 They knew that they should not be commenting. 848 00:47:52.567 --> 00:47:55.467 Official statements as to cause and manner of death 849 00:47:55.467 --> 00:47:58.867 Do not come from police or even homicide detectives. 850 00:47:58.867 --> 00:48:00.567 They do not. 851 00:48:03.167 --> 00:48:05.767 I've never believed that the police were involved 852 00:48:05.767 --> 00:48:09.167 From the beginning in any kind of a conspiracy 853 00:48:09.167 --> 00:48:11.633 Involving Kurt Cobain's death. 854 00:48:11.633 --> 00:48:14.333 I think they were set up by Courtney Love 855 00:48:14.333 --> 00:48:16.267 From that missing person's report, 856 00:48:16.267 --> 00:48:18.300 And everything that it said in it. 857 00:48:18.300 --> 00:48:22.367 If my officers heard or were made aware 858 00:48:22.367 --> 00:48:25.800 That Kurt Cobain had left rehab, had purchased 859 00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:29.567 A shotgun, was suicidal, that's of course going 860 00:48:29.567 --> 00:48:30.933 To affect them. 861 00:48:30.933 --> 00:48:33.900 They, what I call assumed the suicide position, 862 00:48:33.900 --> 00:48:36.670 Which to me means cut corners, not do this, 863 00:48:36.670 --> 00:48:39.670 Not do that, because it's a suicide, no problem. 864 00:48:39.670 --> 00:48:41.670 I have to admit, there's been a lot of inconsistencies 865 00:48:41.670 --> 00:48:42.333 In this case. 866 00:48:42.333 --> 00:48:43.867 Really? 867 00:48:43.867 --> 00:48:46.200 The reports that were coming out in the media said 868 00:48:46.200 --> 00:48:49.567 Kurt Cobain was barricaded inside the Greenhouse. 869 00:48:49.567 --> 00:48:51.400 Look at this photograph. 870 00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:53.433 Is that the lock you're talking about? 871 00:48:54.133 --> 00:48:55.500 I dunno where this picture's from, 872 00:48:55.500 --> 00:48:57.467 So I couldn't say. 873 00:48:57.467 --> 00:48:59.133 Well, it's from the Greenhouse. 874 00:48:59.133 --> 00:49:01.167 I've been over the place inside and out, 875 00:49:01.167 --> 00:49:03.700 And trust me, that is the only lock. 876 00:49:03.700 --> 00:49:05.670 If you say so. 877 00:49:05.900 --> 00:49:08.133 Presuming I'm telling you the truth, 878 00:49:08.133 --> 00:49:10.400 Why would you say that he locked himself in? 879 00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:13.833 Because the door was locked. 880 00:49:13.833 --> 00:49:15.670 Look at the picture. 881 00:49:15.670 --> 00:49:17.670 It's not a deadbolt, it's a twist lock. 882 00:49:17.670 --> 00:49:19.400 Anybody coulda twisted that lock and pulled the door shut 883 00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:20.667 Behind 'em when they left. 884 00:49:20.667 --> 00:49:22.367 Look, the lock doesn't matter. 885 00:49:22.367 --> 00:49:24.900 There was a stool wedged up against the door. 886 00:49:24.900 --> 00:49:26.233 Now how do you wedge a stool against a door 887 00:49:26.233 --> 00:49:27.700 After you've already left the room? 888 00:49:27.700 --> 00:49:30.500 [Tom] The police reports plainly states that the stool 889 00:49:30.500 --> 00:49:33.200 Was simply sitting in front of the two unlocked 890 00:49:33.200 --> 00:49:36.100 French doors at the other side of the room, 891 00:49:36.100 --> 00:49:39.670 But on one of the reports, it was added that the stool 892 00:49:39.670 --> 00:49:41.633 Was blocking the entrance. 893 00:49:43.133 --> 00:49:44.600 Someone reported that there was a stool 894 00:49:44.600 --> 00:49:45.633 Blocking the door. 895 00:49:45.633 --> 00:49:46.567 That wasn't the case. 896 00:49:46.567 --> 00:49:48.167 I dunno where that came from. 897 00:49:48.167 --> 00:49:49.733 If you could just show me the photographs 898 00:49:49.733 --> 00:49:52.200 Your officer took at the scene, we can put that issue 899 00:49:52.200 --> 00:49:53.433 To rest once and for all. 900 00:49:53.433 --> 00:49:55.600 Well the photographs haven't been developed, 901 00:49:55.600 --> 00:49:57.667 Probably never will be. 902 00:49:57.667 --> 00:50:01.367 We don't develop photographs on suicides. 903 00:50:02.233 --> 00:50:03.600 I have never heard of that. 904 00:50:03.600 --> 00:50:05.433 Every case I've been involved, with the crime scene 905 00:50:05.433 --> 00:50:06.733 Photographs were developed. 906 00:50:06.733 --> 00:50:08.533 Why not release 'em to other experts? 907 00:50:08.533 --> 00:50:10.000 I can't answer that question. 908 00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:13.567 It was something that the Seattle Police department did. 909 00:50:13.567 --> 00:50:16.267 In hindsight, they probably shouldn't have. 910 00:50:16.267 --> 00:50:17.867 But that's what they did. 911 00:50:17.867 --> 00:50:20.500 Nothing you've said convinces me this is anything 912 00:50:20.500 --> 00:50:22.333 But a suicide. 913 00:50:22.933 --> 00:50:25.467 Now do you got any other pearls for me? 914 00:50:27.100 --> 00:50:28.600 [Tom] Not at this time. 915 00:50:29.300 --> 00:50:32.367 Detective Cameron resigned when he learned 916 00:50:32.367 --> 00:50:34.400 I was preparing to fire him. 917 00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:37.333 He had colluded with one of his own detectives 918 00:50:37.333 --> 00:50:41.330 To replant evidence that had been stolen 919 00:50:41.330 --> 00:50:45.670 By a homicide detective at a homicide scene. 920 00:50:45.670 --> 00:50:47.670 And it was for that reason that I was preparing 921 00:50:47.670 --> 00:50:48.700 To fire him. 922 00:50:56.233 --> 00:50:57.667 I'm just giving you the information I have, 923 00:50:57.667 --> 00:51:00.100 I don't care what you do with it. 924 00:51:00.467 --> 00:51:03.633 I understand that, but I think your investigation 925 00:51:03.633 --> 00:51:06.900 Is into things that our investigation doesn't apply to. 926 00:51:21.670 --> 00:51:23.670 You don't allow a patrol officer 927 00:51:23.670 --> 00:51:26.670 With no homicide investigative experience 928 00:51:26.670 --> 00:51:28.733 To determine whether a scene is a suicide or not. 929 00:51:34.400 --> 00:51:37.400 My opinion is, in 1994, 930 00:51:37.400 --> 00:51:39.300 They just didn't look at anything. 931 00:51:39.300 --> 00:51:42.467 If it appeared to be a suicide, it was a suicide. 932 00:51:42.467 --> 00:51:44.267 Case closed. 933 00:51:45.467 --> 00:51:50.467 (Somber music) 934 00:52:19.100 --> 00:52:22.167 The news media do poison the atmosphere, 935 00:52:22.167 --> 00:52:24.333 And I have been involved in cases in which 936 00:52:24.333 --> 00:52:28.833 It was impossible, almost, to overcome the beliefs 937 00:52:28.833 --> 00:52:31.467 That had been created within the community 938 00:52:31.467 --> 00:52:34.267 Because of the way in which that particular death 939 00:52:34.267 --> 00:52:35.467 Had been reported. 940 00:52:35.467 --> 00:52:36.800 Judging by the evidence at the scene, 941 00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:38.900 Love says, Cobain apparently drew a chair up 942 00:52:38.900 --> 00:52:41.733 To a window looking out on Puget Sound, sat down, 943 00:52:41.733 --> 00:52:43.767 Took some more drugs, picked up his shotgun and, 944 00:52:43.767 --> 00:52:46.433 Using his thumb, it seems, shot himself in the head. 945 00:52:46.433 --> 00:52:48.267 The physical damage was so severe that his body could 946 00:52:48.267 --> 00:52:50.600 Only be identified by fingerprints. 947 00:52:50.600 --> 00:52:51.933 I was a bit surprised. 948 00:52:51.933 --> 00:52:53.567 Normally a shotgun wound to the head, 949 00:52:53.567 --> 00:52:55.467 The ones I've seen, are pretty devastating, 950 00:52:55.467 --> 00:52:57.933 Often making facial features unrecognizable. 951 00:52:57.933 --> 00:53:00.867 His head was not grossly deformed or badly damaged. 952 00:53:00.867 --> 00:53:03.100 I think I certainly would've recognized him. 953 00:53:03.100 --> 00:53:05.670 I don't see any reason why anyone wouldn't have, 954 00:53:05.670 --> 00:53:06.467 Who knew what he looked like. 955 00:53:06.467 --> 00:53:08.433 Seattle's own police reports indicate 956 00:53:08.433 --> 00:53:12.133 That Officer Lavendowski found Kurt Cobain's wallet 957 00:53:12.133 --> 00:53:14.670 Lyin' on the floor. 958 00:53:14.670 --> 00:53:17.433 He opened it up and removed his driver's license, 959 00:53:17.433 --> 00:53:20.670 And he put it on top of Cobain's wallet 960 00:53:20.670 --> 00:53:22.433 To take a photograph for evidence. 961 00:53:22.433 --> 00:53:25.670 Most of the media reported that Kurt left 962 00:53:25.670 --> 00:53:27.833 His driver's license exposed, and a lot of 'em went 963 00:53:27.833 --> 00:53:29.467 Into a lotta detail: 964 00:53:29.467 --> 00:53:32.433 That he did that so that everyone would recognize him. 965 00:53:32.433 --> 00:53:34.600 But it was completely false. 966 00:54:09.167 --> 00:54:11.267 Love, who, contrary to rumor, says she and Cobain 967 00:54:11.267 --> 00:54:14.100 Hadn't broken up, says Cobain had first written 968 00:54:14.100 --> 00:54:16.633 A suicide note to her which said, in part, 969 00:54:16.633 --> 00:54:18.533 "It's not fun for me anymore." 970 00:54:18.533 --> 00:54:20.167 "I can't live this life." 971 00:54:20.167 --> 00:54:23.333 News media play a great role in these matters. 972 00:54:23.333 --> 00:54:25.500 John Kennedy, incidentally, pointed out 973 00:54:25.500 --> 00:54:28.700 The need for integrity within the news media. 974 00:54:28.700 --> 00:54:30.200 This has been something that was commented 975 00:54:30.200 --> 00:54:33.633 Upon going back to our founding fathers, 976 00:54:33.633 --> 00:54:36.267 Because sometimes pressures from news media 977 00:54:36.267 --> 00:54:39.267 Can be very, very significant. 978 00:54:39.267 --> 00:54:41.433 I don't have the right to make an opinion 979 00:54:41.433 --> 00:54:44.300 On anything that I read or see on television 980 00:54:44.300 --> 00:54:48.670 Until I go to the fuckin' source myself, personally. 981 00:54:51.600 --> 00:54:54.900 The toxicology report from Kurt Cobain's autopsy 982 00:54:54.900 --> 00:54:59.867 Indicated a heroin blood level of 1.52 milligrams per liter. 983 00:54:59.867 --> 00:55:02.967 Five milligrams will produce a level 984 00:55:02.967 --> 00:55:06.600 Of 0.035 milligrams. 985 00:55:06.600 --> 00:55:09.670 Most users, even heavy users, 986 00:55:09.670 --> 00:55:12.967 Only use up to 40 to 60 milligrams in one hit. 987 00:55:12.967 --> 00:55:17.333 So you can see, to reach 1.52 milligrams per liter, 988 00:55:17.333 --> 00:55:19.767 You're talking about an amount that would have 989 00:55:19.767 --> 00:55:24.767 Certainly have exceeded 200 milligrams that were injected 990 00:55:24.867 --> 00:55:26.533 Into Kurt Cobain. 991 00:55:26.533 --> 00:55:29.533 Three times the amount that would be considered lethal. 992 00:55:29.533 --> 00:55:32.467 I think very legitimate questions have been raised 993 00:55:32.467 --> 00:55:34.670 About the level of heroin. 994 00:55:34.670 --> 00:55:37.733 We have not, in 18 years, found a single case 995 00:55:37.733 --> 00:55:41.633 Where somebody could have the level of heroin 996 00:55:41.633 --> 00:55:45.967 In their body that Kurt did and still remain conscious. 997 00:55:45.967 --> 00:55:47.333 [Voiceover] 70 times the lethal dose 998 00:55:47.333 --> 00:55:49.833 For the average person, triple the lethal dose 999 00:55:49.833 --> 00:55:51.667 Even for the most severe heroin addict. 1000 00:55:51.667 --> 00:55:53.100 It would have incapacitated him, 1001 00:55:53.100 --> 00:55:54.700 He would have been unconscious. 1002 00:55:54.700 --> 00:55:57.267 And then roll down their sleeves, put away their heroin kit, 1003 00:55:57.267 --> 00:55:59.133 Pick up the shotgun, position it backwards 1004 00:55:59.133 --> 00:56:00.967 And pull the trigger. 1005 00:56:01.633 --> 00:56:04.233 That deals with coordinative functions. 1006 00:56:04.233 --> 00:56:07.600 How about the emotional aspects of this? 1007 00:56:07.600 --> 00:56:11.433 Why would he then shoot himself before the drug 1008 00:56:11.433 --> 00:56:14.433 Has had a chance to take effect? 1009 00:56:14.500 --> 00:56:18.833 No study that I know of has correlated use 1010 00:56:18.833 --> 00:56:21.967 Of heroin with suicide. 1011 00:56:21.967 --> 00:56:25.833 I cannot think of a case in which I have had someone 1012 00:56:25.833 --> 00:56:29.700 Inject himself with a large amount of heroin 1013 00:56:29.700 --> 00:56:32.200 And then proceed to kill himself. 1014 00:56:32.200 --> 00:56:35.200 It just doesn't make sense, and it doesn't fit in 1015 00:56:35.200 --> 00:56:38.600 With these kinds of situations involving heroin. 1016 00:56:38.600 --> 00:56:41.533 These are questions that I think deserve answers, 1017 00:56:41.533 --> 00:56:43.400 And in fact, require answers. 1018 00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:46.767 Many of the questions could be answered 1019 00:56:46.767 --> 00:56:51.670 If the medical examiner's office would make public 1020 00:56:51.670 --> 00:56:53.670 The autopsy report. 1021 00:56:53.670 --> 00:56:56.133 I haven't been able to see the toxicology report 1022 00:56:56.133 --> 00:57:00.100 Or the autopsy report because I haven't had access 1023 00:57:00.100 --> 00:57:03.867 To review the actual documentation from the authorities. 1024 00:57:03.867 --> 00:57:06.900 The autopsy report is public record. 1025 00:57:06.900 --> 00:57:10.867 Apparently in this jurisdiction, it is not. 1026 00:57:10.867 --> 00:57:13.867 In the case of Kurt Cobain, they should've made them part 1027 00:57:13.867 --> 00:57:16.100 Of the release with the Freedom of Information. 1028 00:57:16.100 --> 00:57:17.367 Why they didn't do that, I dunno. 1029 00:57:17.367 --> 00:57:19.467 In hindsight, maybe they should've. 1030 00:57:19.467 --> 00:57:21.833 We wouldn't be having this discussion today. 1031 00:57:23.500 --> 00:57:27.467 There was a documentary made about 1997, I believe, 1032 00:57:27.467 --> 00:57:29.670 Called "Kurt and Courtney." 1033 00:57:29.670 --> 00:57:31.933 I cooperated with the producer and director of that, 1034 00:57:31.933 --> 00:57:33.533 Nick Broomfield. 1035 00:57:34.233 --> 00:57:37.670 [Voiceover] Tom Grant's assertion that 1.52 milligrams 1036 00:57:37.670 --> 00:57:40.670 Of heroin per liter of blood would have incapacitated 1037 00:57:40.670 --> 00:57:43.567 Kurt were discounted by Doctor Colin Brewer, 1038 00:57:43.567 --> 00:57:46.633 Formerly director at Westminster Hospital. 1039 00:57:46.633 --> 00:57:49.567 He gave us this color slide of a patient balancing easily 1040 00:57:49.567 --> 00:57:52.670 On one leg, who had taken the equivalent 1041 00:57:52.670 --> 00:57:55.670 Of over twice the amount taken by Kurt. 1042 00:57:55.670 --> 00:57:58.167 The problem is that this man had taken methadone, 1043 00:57:58.167 --> 00:58:02.670 Not heroin, and he had swallowed the methadone. 1044 00:58:02.670 --> 00:58:04.733 Methadone is a pain medication. 1045 00:58:04.733 --> 00:58:07.267 It's also used to treat heroin addiction, 1046 00:58:07.267 --> 00:58:10.733 And because it's taken orally, it 's absorbed much slower. 1047 00:58:10.733 --> 00:58:13.933 It takes time to get into the blood, so it can take 1048 00:58:13.933 --> 00:58:16.400 Up to an hour or perhaps two before it reaches 1049 00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:19.233 Its highest concentrations. 1050 00:58:19.233 --> 00:58:23.133 Heroin, on the other hand, injected directly into the vein, 1051 00:58:23.133 --> 00:58:26.267 Is immediately available to circulation, 1052 00:58:26.267 --> 00:58:28.233 Immediately available to the brain. 1053 00:58:28.233 --> 00:58:33.200 Comparing oral methadone to intravenous heroin. 1054 00:58:33.767 --> 00:58:37.670 What's the trade expression, apples and oranges? 1055 00:58:37.670 --> 00:58:38.833 It's much worse than apples and oranges. 1056 00:58:38.833 --> 00:58:41.700 It might be peaches and asparagus that you're comparing. 1057 00:58:41.700 --> 00:58:44.600 I'm surely amazed that a competent forensic scientist 1058 00:58:44.600 --> 00:58:47.833 Would have made that kind of comparison. 1059 00:58:47.833 --> 00:58:52.833 (Eerie music) 1060 00:58:53.533 --> 00:58:55.100 [Voiceover] Seattle police reports indicate 1061 00:58:55.100 --> 00:58:59.670 That Kurt Cobain was found with a shotgun upside down, 1062 00:58:59.670 --> 00:59:01.670 With his left hand grasping the barrel 1063 00:59:01.670 --> 00:59:04.233 In a vise-like grip, known as a cadaveric spasm. 1064 00:59:05.233 --> 00:59:08.670 Cadaveric spasm is a form of muscular stiffening 1065 00:59:08.670 --> 00:59:10.467 That only occurs in death. 1066 00:59:10.467 --> 00:59:14.133 This occurrence is indispensable to forensic investigation, 1067 00:59:14.133 --> 00:59:17.633 As it clearly shows the precise orientation of the deceased 1068 00:59:17.633 --> 00:59:20.133 At the exact moment of death; 1069 00:59:20.133 --> 00:59:22.167 In this case, Cobain's left hand 1070 00:59:22.167 --> 00:59:25.667 Gripping the barrel upside down, as he was found. 1071 00:59:25.667 --> 00:59:27.133 (Camera shutter) 1072 00:59:27.133 --> 00:59:29.867 This all seemed straightforward, until you take into account 1073 00:59:29.867 --> 00:59:33.200 The shotgun shell was found to Cobain's left side, 1074 00:59:33.200 --> 00:59:36.670 Opposite of where we'd expect to find the shell: 1075 00:59:36.670 --> 00:59:39.670 On Cobain's right side. 1076 00:59:39.670 --> 00:59:42.433 The exit chamber is clearly on Cobain's right side 1077 00:59:42.433 --> 00:59:45.400 If it was fired upside down, as it was found, 1078 00:59:45.400 --> 00:59:49.167 And as the cadaveric spasm confirms 1079 00:59:49.167 --> 00:59:51.800 Seattle P.D. explained the illogical trajectory 1080 00:59:51.800 --> 00:59:54.467 Of the shotgun shell by concluding that the shotgun 1081 00:59:54.467 --> 00:59:57.670 Was fired right side up by Cobain, 1082 00:59:57.670 --> 01:00:00.167 The shotgun flipped upside down, expelling the shell 1083 01:00:00.167 --> 01:00:02.867 To his left, to finally rest in the position 1084 01:00:02.867 --> 01:00:04.500 That it was found. 1085 01:00:04.500 --> 01:00:07.467 This proposed scenario is impossible, not only 1086 01:00:07.467 --> 01:00:10.767 Because shotguns do not flip upside down when fired; 1087 01:00:10.767 --> 01:00:13.133 It completely ignores the cadaveric spasm 1088 01:00:13.133 --> 01:00:16.800 That locks the grip, dictating the precise orientation 1089 01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:18.967 Of the shotgun when fired. 1090 01:00:18.967 --> 01:00:22.400 In order for the scenario the Seattle police stated occurred 1091 01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:25.000 Cobain's wrist would have to bend at an angle 1092 01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:28.330 That is anatomically impossible. 1093 01:00:28.330 --> 01:00:31.433 The cadaveric spasm shows the precise orientation 1094 01:00:31.433 --> 01:00:34.933 Of Cobain's hand at the exact moment of death. 1095 01:00:34.933 --> 01:00:37.800 The only way that the shell could end up in the opposite 1096 01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:41.433 Side of the room is if, when the shell was expelled, 1097 01:00:41.433 --> 01:00:44.000 Hit an obstruction on Cobain's right side 1098 01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:47.800 And ricocheted to Cobain's left side, to land on the jacket. 1099 01:00:47.800 --> 01:00:52.000 The crime scene clearly shows there was no such obstruction, 1100 01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:55.433 Which then puts into question if Cobain truly was alone 1101 01:00:55.433 --> 01:00:58.767 In the Greenhouse when the trigger was pulled. 1102 01:00:59.567 --> 01:01:02.670 [Rosemary] Kurt was not suicidal. 1103 01:01:02.567 --> 01:01:03.900 Have you been watchin' TV? 1104 01:01:03.900 --> 01:01:05.670 Readin' the paper? 1105 01:01:05.670 --> 01:01:06.500 They're all saying that he's been suicidal 1106 01:01:06.500 --> 01:01:08.467 For a long time, and Courtney said that this overdose, 1107 01:01:08.467 --> 01:01:09.800 The one that was in Rome, she said 1108 01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:11.233 That was a suicide attempt. 1109 01:01:11.233 --> 01:01:12.533 That's not true. 1110 01:01:12.533 --> 01:01:14.533 It was Rosemary Carroll's involvement 1111 01:01:14.533 --> 01:01:17.300 That really pushed me forward, because if somebody 1112 01:01:17.300 --> 01:01:20.833 In Rosemary Carroll's position was telling me 1113 01:01:20.833 --> 01:01:23.200 The things she was telling me, 1114 01:01:23.200 --> 01:01:27.167 Then I wasn't off base, I wasn't crazy, 1115 01:01:27.167 --> 01:01:28.667 I wasn't a lunatic. 1116 01:01:28.667 --> 01:01:30.200 She called me a couple of weeks ago, 1117 01:01:30.200 --> 01:01:32.600 Said Kurt was leaving her and asked me to find the meanest, 1118 01:01:32.600 --> 01:01:35.133 Most vicious divorce lawyer I could find. 1119 01:01:35.133 --> 01:01:36.333 She even asked me if there was any way 1120 01:01:36.333 --> 01:01:37.633 To avoid their prenup. 1121 01:01:37.633 --> 01:01:39.100 And she said about that same time, 1122 01:01:39.100 --> 01:01:41.867 Kurt had called her also and asked her if she could 1123 01:01:41.867 --> 01:01:44.433 Have Courtney's name taken outta the will. 1124 01:01:44.433 --> 01:01:49.433 (Eerie music) 1125 01:02:00.300 --> 01:02:02.367 Does it seem strange that Courtney didn't go 1126 01:02:02.367 --> 01:02:04.633 Up to Seattle, not even once, to look for him? 1127 01:02:04.633 --> 01:02:06.433 Absolutely. 1128 01:02:07.167 --> 01:02:09.167 When I offered to go up, she said she couldn't go 1129 01:02:09.167 --> 01:02:12.200 With me because she had some business down here in L.A. 1130 01:02:12.200 --> 01:02:14.433 She didn't have any business in L.A. 1131 01:02:14.933 --> 01:02:17.167 What I don't understand is how you didn't see him 1132 01:02:17.167 --> 01:02:19.133 In the Greenhouse the first night you were there. 1133 01:02:19.133 --> 01:02:20.600 Wait a minute, I didn't even know the Greenhouse 1134 01:02:20.600 --> 01:02:22.833 Existed until the day I heard it on the radio. 1135 01:02:22.833 --> 01:02:24.833 But Courtney told Dylan to check it. 1136 01:02:24.833 --> 01:02:26.667 When he called Courtney at my house Wednesday night, 1137 01:02:26.667 --> 01:02:30.670 I heard her tell him to check the Greenhouse. 1138 01:02:39.670 --> 01:02:42.500 A lotta people mock him for being at the house, 1139 01:02:42.500 --> 01:02:44.333 On the case, looking for Kurt. 1140 01:02:44.333 --> 01:02:47.500 Kurt was lying dead 20 feet away and he never found him. 1141 01:02:47.500 --> 01:02:51.400 What does that say about his abilities as a P.I? 1142 01:02:52.233 --> 01:02:54.433 I went back on a rainy night. 1143 01:02:54.433 --> 01:02:57.467 He claims it was dark and just didn't know it was there. 1144 01:02:57.467 --> 01:02:59.767 Nobody told him, Dylan certainly didn't tell him. 1145 01:02:59.767 --> 01:03:02.670 Dylan must have known that it was there. 1146 01:03:02.670 --> 01:03:03.800 [Tom] Is there anywhere else? 1147 01:03:03.800 --> 01:03:05.167 No. 1148 01:03:05.400 --> 01:03:08.133 [Max] So I went and tested that, and sure enough, 1149 01:03:08.133 --> 01:03:10.670 You really couldn't see it if you weren't looking 1150 01:03:10.670 --> 01:03:11.267 For it specifically. 1151 01:03:11.267 --> 01:03:16.267 (Eerie music) 1152 01:03:28.300 --> 01:03:30.367 I asked Courtney to see the note when I was in Seattle, 1153 01:03:30.367 --> 01:03:31.867 And she refused. 1154 01:03:31.867 --> 01:03:33.833 Courtney apparently had let Danny Goldberg, 1155 01:03:33.833 --> 01:03:36.400 Her husband, see the note, but she wouldn't let 1156 01:03:36.400 --> 01:03:39.200 Rosemary see it, so that mystified her too 1157 01:03:39.200 --> 01:03:40.867 And made her more suspicious. 1158 01:03:40.867 --> 01:03:43.833 And it made me more suspicious, too. 1159 01:03:43.833 --> 01:03:47.670 To hear Courtney's own lawyer, 1160 01:03:47.670 --> 01:03:49.733 Kurt and Courtney's entertainment lawyer, Rosemary Carroll, 1161 01:03:50.300 --> 01:03:53.670 The godmother of Frances Bean, 1162 01:03:53.700 --> 01:03:57.367 Somebody that knew them better than almost anybody, 1163 01:03:58.200 --> 01:04:01.200 Telling Tom that 1164 01:04:02.670 --> 01:04:04.967 They were in the middle of a divorce, 1165 01:04:04.967 --> 01:04:07.533 That Kurt was drawing up a new will, 1166 01:04:08.633 --> 01:04:11.670 And most importantly, I think the tape 1167 01:04:11.670 --> 01:04:14.600 That really had me reeling, 1168 01:04:15.500 --> 01:04:20.433 Was hearing Rosemary Carroll looking at the suicide note 1169 01:04:20.433 --> 01:04:22.800 And immediately concluding that it's a forgery. 1170 01:05:03.100 --> 01:05:05.500 I believe Courtney never thought the public was gonna 1171 01:05:05.500 --> 01:05:07.400 Ever see that note. 1172 01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:09.933 If I hadn't have tricked her out of a copy of the note, 1173 01:05:09.933 --> 01:05:11.767 They wouldn't have seen it. 1174 01:05:12.567 --> 01:05:14.367 I heard you read the note on TV the other day 1175 01:05:14.367 --> 01:05:16.967 And I'm just a little confused about something. 1176 01:05:17.767 --> 01:05:21.233 It sounded like the note said, "I'm lying on the bed." 1177 01:05:21.233 --> 01:05:23.967 If Kurt was lying in the bed when he wrote the note, 1178 01:05:23.967 --> 01:05:26.700 Why was the bed so neat when I came here the other night? 1179 01:05:26.700 --> 01:05:29.670 It looked like nobody had been on the bed. 1180 01:05:29.670 --> 01:05:32.670 I was lying on the bed, recording the message 1181 01:05:32.670 --> 01:05:33.833 For Kurt's fans. 1182 01:05:33.833 --> 01:05:35.600 Are you sure that's what you said? 1183 01:05:35.600 --> 01:05:39.100 Because I was under the impression that Kurt was lying 1184 01:05:39.100 --> 01:05:40.233 On the bed. 1185 01:05:40.233 --> 01:05:42.733 Look, I'll show you, okay? 1186 01:05:44.233 --> 01:05:48.800 It's just a copy, but the cops have the original. 1187 01:05:50.900 --> 01:05:55.200 I can't read this without my glasses. 1188 01:05:55.200 --> 01:05:56.967 I'm gonna take it down, make a copy in the fax machine. 1189 01:05:56.967 --> 01:05:58.600 I'll read it later. 1190 01:06:00.200 --> 01:06:02.433 Yeah, sure. 1191 01:06:14.867 --> 01:06:17.700 [Rosemary] That I never thought to look at at all, 1192 01:06:17.700 --> 01:06:20.667 Quite honestly, until last night. 1193 01:06:20.667 --> 01:06:22.633 She left it after she came over to my house, 1194 01:06:22.633 --> 01:06:24.100 The night of the 6th. 1195 01:06:24.100 --> 01:06:26.800 Rosemary Carroll was working with me behind the scenes, 1196 01:06:26.800 --> 01:06:29.733 Privately, giving me information. 1197 01:06:29.733 --> 01:06:32.400 She did it out of a good conscience. 1198 01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:33.667 [Rosemary] What do you think that is? 1199 01:06:57.467 --> 01:07:02.467 (Eerie music) 1200 01:08:11.670 --> 01:08:14.667 [Courtney] (Indistinct) conference on your phone, 1201 01:08:14.667 --> 01:08:16.700 And that way you could... 1202 01:08:16.700 --> 01:08:18.100 [Tom] You've promised me things before, 1203 01:08:18.100 --> 01:08:20.670 And it didn't come through. 1204 01:08:21.533 --> 01:08:23.800 Almost immediately after Kurt Cobain's death 1205 01:08:23.800 --> 01:08:26.633 Was announced in the media, this phenomenon 1206 01:08:26.633 --> 01:08:29.467 Of copycat suicides began. 1207 01:08:29.467 --> 01:08:31.733 Kids started killing themselves: 1208 01:08:31.733 --> 01:08:34.500 Kurt Cobain fans, Nirvana fans. 1209 01:08:34.500 --> 01:08:37.670 This was happening all around the world. 1210 01:08:37.670 --> 01:08:41.467 Now I'm a dad myself, and it's just, 1211 01:08:42.933 --> 01:08:44.100 Absolutely breaks my heart. 1212 01:08:44.100 --> 01:08:45.900 I talk to a lotta the families. 1213 01:08:46.633 --> 01:08:50.467 When you read their suicide notes and read their journals, 1214 01:08:50.467 --> 01:08:54.233 It really drove home the importance 1215 01:08:55.333 --> 01:08:57.333 Of Kurt on this generation. 1216 01:08:58.670 --> 01:09:01.800 The thought of losing a child is just horrific. 1217 01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:05.100 I was relieved that I was gonna go forward with this, 1218 01:09:05.100 --> 01:09:07.167 Because I thought, "Maybe it'll help stop" 1219 01:09:07.167 --> 01:09:09.167 "Some of these copycat suicides." 1220 01:09:09.167 --> 01:09:14.167 (Sad music) 1221 01:09:33.767 --> 01:09:35.300 [Tom] That would help too, to be analyzed. 1222 01:09:35.300 --> 01:09:38.867 We could determine whether Kurt wrote that whole thing. 1223 01:09:39.700 --> 01:09:42.300 The fact that the handwriting looks, 1224 01:09:42.300 --> 01:09:45.500 To my untrained eye, different at the bottom 1225 01:09:45.500 --> 01:09:48.133 Of that note than it does during the body 1226 01:09:48.133 --> 01:09:50.533 It certainly does suggest that putting that note 1227 01:09:50.533 --> 01:09:53.533 In the hands of a questioned documents examiner, 1228 01:09:53.533 --> 01:09:57.700 Somebody who really understands a lot more than we do 1229 01:09:57.700 --> 01:10:00.167 As cops, that would be a good idea. 1230 01:10:00.167 --> 01:10:03.100 A forensic document examiner examines documents 1231 01:10:03.100 --> 01:10:05.700 For the purposes of authenticity. 1232 01:10:05.700 --> 01:10:08.633 I examined a handwriting sample that was found 1233 01:10:08.633 --> 01:10:12.500 In Courtney Love's backpack, and it was a practice sheet 1234 01:10:12.500 --> 01:10:15.833 Of different letters, the alphabet. 1235 01:10:15.833 --> 01:10:20.500 I examined that in comparison to the suicide note. 1236 01:10:20.500 --> 01:10:23.133 What I did find interesting about the practice sheet is 1237 01:10:23.133 --> 01:10:26.300 That it did have letter combinations and specific letters 1238 01:10:26.300 --> 01:10:31.300 That are found in the bottom portion of the suicide note. 1239 01:10:31.367 --> 01:10:34.933 It is possible that somebody else with some skill 1240 01:10:34.933 --> 01:10:38.400 Could indeed imitate his writing, 1241 01:10:38.400 --> 01:10:40.900 Especially those last few lines. 1242 01:10:43.500 --> 01:10:46.533 One of the, perhaps surprising, characteristics 1243 01:10:46.533 --> 01:10:51.670 Of this note is that the largest section of the note, 1244 01:10:51.670 --> 01:10:54.333 Or the initial part, talks so much about his relationship 1245 01:10:54.333 --> 01:10:58.433 To music, and it's only the very small part of the note, 1246 01:10:58.433 --> 01:11:02.467 The last four lines, that talks about his relationship 1247 01:11:02.467 --> 01:11:04.100 To his family. 1248 01:11:04.900 --> 01:11:07.733 But there's another linguistically interesting thing 1249 01:11:07.733 --> 01:11:12.733 About the second or final four lines of the note, 1250 01:11:13.433 --> 01:11:18.433 And that is that that is what most of us would consider 1251 01:11:19.670 --> 01:11:21.733 A stereotypical suicide note. 1252 01:11:22.133 --> 01:11:25.667 "I love you, someone will be better off without me," 1253 01:11:25.667 --> 01:11:27.467 "Keep moving forward." 1254 01:11:28.400 --> 01:11:32.167 Those are the kinds of things we expect to find 1255 01:11:32.167 --> 01:11:36.500 In suicide notes, or even in overkill, 1256 01:11:36.500 --> 01:11:40.967 To make it very stereotypical so that people couldn't miss 1257 01:11:40.967 --> 01:11:42.670 What it was. 1258 01:11:42.670 --> 01:11:47.670 (Eerie music) 1259 01:11:48.567 --> 01:11:51.133 There are a lotta questions I have for Dylan and Cali, 1260 01:11:51.133 --> 01:11:53.533 Especially Cali, who spent more time here at the house 1261 01:11:53.533 --> 01:11:55.967 Than anybody last week. 1262 01:11:57.433 --> 01:12:00.533 Cali is, he just left for rehab. 1263 01:12:00.600 --> 01:12:03.400 He's in El Paso, or 1264 01:12:04.567 --> 01:12:06.767 Georgia, I think. 1265 01:12:08.500 --> 01:12:11.967 No no no, he's in L.A. with friends. 1266 01:12:15.900 --> 01:12:17.700 I'll get Dylan over here. 1267 01:12:18.767 --> 01:12:21.833 After probably a half an hour or so, I walked out 1268 01:12:21.833 --> 01:12:24.967 And I asked, "Is Dylan here yet?" 1269 01:12:24.967 --> 01:12:27.667 "I haven't seen him," and I just assumed that somebody 1270 01:12:27.667 --> 01:12:29.767 Would let me know when he showed up. 1271 01:12:29.767 --> 01:12:32.333 They said, "Yeah, he's upstairs with Courtney," 1272 01:12:32.333 --> 01:12:33.700 Which I thought was strange. 1273 01:12:33.700 --> 01:12:35.233 He was supposed to be coming in the house to talk 1274 01:12:35.233 --> 01:12:39.433 To me, not go upstairs and do a pre-interview with Courtney. 1275 01:12:40.670 --> 01:12:41.500 So there's just been a couple things that have been 1276 01:12:41.500 --> 01:12:44.100 Eating at me in the last few weeks, and I wanted to sit here 1277 01:12:44.100 --> 01:12:46.267 And I wanted to talk to you about them. 1278 01:12:49.100 --> 01:12:50.567 Did you just shoot up? 1279 01:12:51.233 --> 01:12:52.467 [Dylan] Hm? 1280 01:12:53.670 --> 01:12:54.633 [Tom] Did you just shoot up? 1281 01:12:56.500 --> 01:12:57.300 Yeah. 1282 01:12:57.300 --> 01:12:58.367 [Tom] What? 1283 01:12:58.367 --> 01:12:59.867 Yes. 1284 01:12:59.867 --> 01:13:01.367 Why did you do that? 1285 01:13:01.367 --> 01:13:02.267 I told you I was coming up here, I told you we had 1286 01:13:02.267 --> 01:13:04.100 To have this conversation. 1287 01:13:04.900 --> 01:13:05.433 Dylan. 1288 01:13:05.433 --> 01:13:06.900 Hm? 1289 01:13:06.900 --> 01:13:09.100 [Tom] I told you we had to have this conversation. 1290 01:13:09.833 --> 01:13:10.867 I'm ready. 1291 01:13:10.867 --> 01:13:12.670 [Tom] You're ready? 1292 01:13:12.670 --> 01:13:13.267 - Mm hmm. - [Tom] You're not ready. 1293 01:13:13.267 --> 01:13:14.633 [Tom] I felt, "Why would Courtney do this?" 1294 01:13:14.633 --> 01:13:17.300 She knew I had some serious questions to ask him, 1295 01:13:17.300 --> 01:13:20.400 And she's sending him down to me in a drugged state 1296 01:13:20.400 --> 01:13:23.133 Of mind, where he could hardly talk? 1297 01:13:23.133 --> 01:13:25.300 You check the front door or the back? 1298 01:13:25.300 --> 01:13:27.100 Did you check the front door or the back door? 1299 01:13:27.100 --> 01:13:27.867 Yeah. 1300 01:13:27.867 --> 01:13:28.933 [Tom] Which door? 1301 01:13:28.933 --> 01:13:30.200 Both. 1302 01:13:30.200 --> 01:13:31.200 [Tom] Both doors. Did you check the side door? 1303 01:13:31.200 --> 01:13:32.367 No. 1304 01:13:32.367 --> 01:13:33.367 [Tom] You didn't go to the side door? 1305 01:13:33.367 --> 01:13:34.600 I don't remember. 1306 01:13:34.600 --> 01:13:35.533 [Tom] You don't remember. 1307 01:13:35.533 --> 01:13:37.167 Did you go to the Greenhouse? 1308 01:13:37.167 --> 01:13:38.333 [Dylan] No. 1309 01:13:38.333 --> 01:13:39.700 You didn't go to the Greenhouse? 1310 01:13:39.700 --> 01:13:42.733 Dylan, Dylan, I wanna talk about... 1311 01:13:44.100 --> 01:13:46.333 I wanna talk about the Greenhouse. 1312 01:13:48.933 --> 01:13:50.200 Dylan. 1313 01:13:50.867 --> 01:13:52.267 Dylan was a heroin addict, 1314 01:13:52.267 --> 01:13:54.933 And he needed a source for heroin. 1315 01:13:54.933 --> 01:13:59.267 Once Kurt Cobain was dead, his source became Courtney Love. 1316 01:13:59.267 --> 01:14:01.967 His loyalty became Courtney Love. 1317 01:14:02.967 --> 01:14:04.200 He was very dependent on her. 1318 01:14:04.200 --> 01:14:06.567 We've since learned that she paid his rent 1319 01:14:06.567 --> 01:14:09.670 For many, many years, supplied the money 1320 01:14:09.670 --> 01:14:12.567 For his heroin, and almost everybody around Kurt. 1321 01:14:12.567 --> 01:14:13.867 They were dependent on Courtney, 1322 01:14:13.867 --> 01:14:15.767 They were dependent on Courtney's money. 1323 01:14:19.400 --> 01:14:22.767 It's a waste of time, waste of time. 1324 01:14:31.133 --> 01:14:34.133 I felt it was my duty to notify my client 1325 01:14:34.133 --> 01:14:36.500 That I was starting to dig into some directions 1326 01:14:36.500 --> 01:14:39.533 That she may not want me to be looking into, 1327 01:14:39.533 --> 01:14:42.233 But I was determined to do it and I thought 1328 01:14:42.233 --> 01:14:45.900 That she deserved to know that I was going to do this. 1329 01:14:47.900 --> 01:14:50.533 She got the message, I'm sure, from that. 1330 01:14:50.533 --> 01:14:52.967 I was insinuating that I suspected her 1331 01:14:52.967 --> 01:14:54.833 Of being involved in this. 1332 01:14:55.667 --> 01:14:57.667 A few days after that letter was sent, 1333 01:14:57.667 --> 01:14:59.867 I got a phone call from Courtney. 1334 01:15:00.600 --> 01:15:03.167 She wasn't livid, she wasn't even angry. 1335 01:15:03.167 --> 01:15:05.400 She didn't mention the letter, in fact. 1336 01:15:05.400 --> 01:15:08.900 I basically said I'm going to continue with my investigation 1337 01:15:08.900 --> 01:15:11.633 With or without your cooperation. 1338 01:15:52.400 --> 01:15:53.633 Here's all you have to do to bring this 1339 01:15:53.633 --> 01:15:55.767 To a quick end and solve all of your problems. 1340 01:16:34.467 --> 01:16:39.467 (Ominous music) 1341 01:17:13.700 --> 01:17:18.633 (Eerie music) 1342 01:17:22.600 --> 01:17:27.600 (Sad guitar music) 1343 01:18:03.667 --> 01:18:05.833 Yes, hi, I'm looking for Kurt. 1344 01:18:07.400 --> 01:18:08.533 Hello? 1345 01:18:08.533 --> 01:18:13.533 (Sad guitar music) 1346 01:18:23.233 --> 01:18:24.700 Hello? 1347 01:18:26.233 --> 01:18:27.800 Yes, hi. Someone's gonna get really fucked up over there 1348 01:18:27.800 --> 01:18:29.467 If I don't talk to Kurt. 1349 01:18:31.833 --> 01:18:34.300 Hi, this is Julie Bernstein. 1350 01:18:34.300 --> 01:18:36.867 I really need to speak to my client Kurt. 1351 01:18:36.867 --> 01:18:38.233 Get him on the fucking phone! 1352 01:18:38.233 --> 01:18:43.200 (Sad guitar music) 1353 01:18:52.600 --> 01:18:54.167 Yes, yeah, thank you. 1354 01:18:54.167 --> 01:18:55.767 No, no problem. 1355 01:18:56.533 --> 01:18:57.933 Yeah, Delta's fine. 1356 01:18:57.933 --> 01:19:02.933 (Sad guitar music) 1357 01:20:49.967 --> 01:20:54.967 (Eerie music) 1358 01:21:11.670 --> 01:21:12.933 [Voiceover] with the 20th anniversary approaching, 1359 01:21:12.933 --> 01:21:15.833 Detective Mike Ciesynski re-examined the case files 1360 01:21:15.833 --> 01:21:18.900 Of an assignment early in his fledgling career, 1361 01:21:18.900 --> 01:21:22.333 The investigation into the death of Kurt Cobain. 1362 01:21:22.700 --> 01:21:24.733 You can never really realize what type 1363 01:21:24.733 --> 01:21:26.867 Of conspiracy theorists are gonna come out 1364 01:21:26.867 --> 01:21:28.300 Of the woodwork. 1365 01:21:28.300 --> 01:21:31.933 The amount of heroin that he injected was 10 times 1366 01:21:31.933 --> 01:21:35.600 What, normally, anybody would've taken, 1367 01:21:35.600 --> 01:21:37.400 Even a heavy heroin user. 1368 01:21:37.400 --> 01:21:41.967 I believe he gave himself a fatal dose of black tar heroin. 1369 01:21:42.833 --> 01:21:47.833 (Eerie music) 1370 01:21:51.500 --> 01:21:53.933 [Voiceover] Detective Mike Ciesynski found four rolls 1371 01:21:53.933 --> 01:21:56.733 Of undeveloped crime scene photos. 1372 01:21:56.733 --> 01:21:59.670 Two of those photos were released, 1373 01:21:59.670 --> 01:22:01.367 Taken the day his body was found. 1374 01:22:01.367 --> 01:22:04.567 In hindsight, I think I would've developed the film. 1375 01:22:04.567 --> 01:22:05.967 [Voiceover] Did you find anything different 1376 01:22:05.967 --> 01:22:08.367 That made you believe it's anything but suicide? 1377 01:22:08.367 --> 01:22:09.767 No, nothing. 1378 01:22:09.767 --> 01:22:12.133 What are people gonna gain from seeing pictures 1379 01:22:12.133 --> 01:22:13.333 Of Kurt Cobain? 1380 01:22:13.333 --> 01:22:15.233 How is that gonna benefit anybody? 1381 01:22:15.233 --> 01:22:18.200 It wasn't gonna change my decision that this was a suicide, 1382 01:22:18.200 --> 01:22:20.667 And actually I'm the one who makes the decision finally, 1383 01:22:20.667 --> 01:22:22.670 Do we go forward or not. 1384 01:22:22.670 --> 01:22:25.400 There is never one item that I said definitely 1385 01:22:25.400 --> 01:22:27.767 That this actually was suicide, but um... 1386 01:22:43.600 --> 01:22:47.300 Any re-examination should not even be actively 1387 01:22:47.300 --> 01:22:50.800 Participated in by the Seattle Police Department. 1388 01:22:50.800 --> 01:22:54.533 To expect them to conduct an objective, detached, 1389 01:22:54.533 --> 01:22:57.300 Unbiased investigation, come back 20 years later 1390 01:22:57.300 --> 01:22:59.833 And say, "Hey man, we blew it?" 1391 01:22:59.833 --> 01:23:03.800 It flies in the face of common sense. 1392 01:23:03.800 --> 01:23:07.900 The Kurt Cobain death demands a re-opening 1393 01:23:07.900 --> 01:23:12.467 By an objective set of experts, and until that is done, 1394 01:23:12.467 --> 01:23:15.433 Then one cannot feel comfortable in saying 1395 01:23:15.433 --> 01:23:20.333 That Kurt Cobain's death was a clear-cut suicide. 1396 01:23:23.200 --> 01:23:27.233 (Eerie music) (Rain) 1397 01:23:27.233 --> 01:23:29.333 For me, the most compelling piece of evidence 1398 01:23:29.333 --> 01:23:33.670 That convinces me, almost to a certainty, 1399 01:23:33.670 --> 01:23:36.100 That Kurt was murdered, was the level of heroin in his body. 1400 01:23:37.667 --> 01:23:40.333 There's never been a documented case in the history 1401 01:23:40.333 --> 01:23:43.367 Of law enforcement where somebody could have 1402 01:23:43.367 --> 01:23:47.100 The level of heroin in their body that Kurt did, 1403 01:23:47.100 --> 01:23:51.833 Still remain conscious, and still led to a suicide. 1404 01:23:53.467 --> 01:23:56.367 We talked to an FBI expert, and he said, 1405 01:23:56.367 --> 01:23:58.667 "If you wanna get away with murder," 1406 01:23:59.333 --> 01:24:01.167 "You kill a junkie." 1407 01:24:01.167 --> 01:24:06.167 It's very easy to make a murder look 1408 01:24:06.233 --> 01:24:09.400 Look like an accidental overdose or a suicide. 1409 01:24:10.670 --> 01:24:14.467 It's the perfect crime, and it happens all the time. 1410 01:24:16.670 --> 01:24:20.700 We know that Kurt and Courtney had a prenuptial agreement. 1411 01:24:21.533 --> 01:24:23.467 They were in the process of getting a divorce. 1412 01:24:23.467 --> 01:24:26.670 This was confirmed, they were divorcing. 1413 01:24:26.670 --> 01:24:27.867 He was leaving her. 1414 01:24:28.467 --> 01:24:30.467 If the divorce had gone through, 1415 01:24:31.100 --> 01:24:34.267 She would've received a very small settlement 1416 01:24:34.267 --> 01:24:36.633 As a result of the prenuptial agreement. 1417 01:24:37.133 --> 01:24:41.670 When he died, she co-inherited an estate worth 1418 01:24:41.670 --> 01:24:44.233 Possibly more than a billion dollars in future royalties. 1419 01:24:45.670 --> 01:24:47.433 Police immediately look at motive. 1420 01:24:47.433 --> 01:24:48.900 Here's the motive. 1421 01:24:51.433 --> 01:24:54.667 No matter what anybody believes, this happened 1422 01:24:54.667 --> 01:24:58.533 Far too quickly for the kinds of things to be accomplished 1423 01:24:58.533 --> 01:25:03.267 That need to be done in this kind of death investigation. 1424 01:25:03.267 --> 01:25:07.633 We should, in fact, have taken steps to study patterns 1425 01:25:07.633 --> 01:25:12.633 Involved in the behavior of key individuals who had a motive 1426 01:25:13.500 --> 01:25:15.800 To see Kurt Cobain dead. 1427 01:25:16.767 --> 01:25:20.367 This would be in fact, a classical example for how 1428 01:25:20.367 --> 01:25:23.670 An investigation should not be done. 1429 01:25:23.670 --> 01:25:26.900 If, in fact, Kurt Cobain was murdered, as opposed 1430 01:25:26.900 --> 01:25:30.900 To having committed suicide, and it was possible 1431 01:25:30.900 --> 01:25:34.367 To learn that, shame on us for not doing that. 1432 01:25:34.367 --> 01:25:37.167 That was, in fact, our responsibility. 1433 01:25:37.167 --> 01:25:40.200 Should the case be re-opened? 1434 01:25:40.200 --> 01:25:43.670 My answer is unequivocally, unhesitatingly, 1435 01:25:43.670 --> 01:25:45.667 "Yes, the case should be re-opened." 1436 01:25:45.667 --> 01:25:47.433 It's about right and wrong. 1437 01:25:47.433 --> 01:25:51.633 It's about honor, it's about ethics. 1438 01:25:51.633 --> 01:25:53.400 If we didn't get it right the first time, 1439 01:25:53.400 --> 01:25:56.233 We damn well better get it right the second time. 1440 01:25:56.233 --> 01:25:58.267 And I would tell you right now that if I were the 1441 01:25:58.267 --> 01:26:01.667 Chief today, I would re-open this investigation. 1442 01:26:07.100 --> 01:26:12.100 (Birds chirping) (Eerie music) 1443 01:26:32.767 --> 01:26:37.767 (Guitar music) 1444 01:26:58.400 --> 01:27:03.400 (Rock music) 114112

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