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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:07,960 ANNE: Is that you, Mark? 'Yeah, Mum, it's me. 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,520 'You're not gonna believe this. I'm sitting next to Dad!' 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:12,640 He's alive! 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,160 Mark, you have your father back. I'm so happy for you. 5 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,400 Would you mind? It's just a thing we do with our clients. 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,160 CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKS 7 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,840 OFFICER: John Darwin? I'm arresting you on suspicion of fraud. 8 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:26,920 This is ridiculous. 9 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:29,160 'Since our dad was arrested, 10 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,840 'we are very much in an angry and confused state of mind.' 11 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,760 The front cover of today's Daily Mirror simply reads: 12 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,280 "John never had amnesia." 13 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,480 Firstly, I think you're a good person who, 14 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,680 for reasons that are probably very complicated, 15 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:46,040 did a truly dreadful thing. 16 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:47,480 Second, tell the police the truth 17 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:49,960 and start rebuilding your relationship with your boys. 18 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,960 Anne Darwin? I'm arresting you on suspicion of fraud. 19 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,880 We've not spoken to either of our parents, 20 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,440 and at this present time, we want no further contact with them. 21 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,560 JOURNALISTS YELL, CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICK 22 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:10,440 'We've not spoken to either of our parents, and at this present time, 23 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,640 'we want no further contact with them.' 24 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:21,074 Support us and become VIP member to remove all ads from www.OpenSubtitles.org 25 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:37,200 Anne. Hello. 26 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,840 Hello, I'm Nicola. 27 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,240 Hello, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. 28 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:46,360 How long will I get? 29 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,800 Do you think, in prison? How long might I get? 30 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:53,680 So, it's very simple. 31 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,880 We stick her in one room, stick him in another, 32 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,360 and we play them off. 33 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,240 Bottom line, Anne, the more honest you are with us, 34 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,960 the more information you can give us about what actually happened here, 35 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,880 the quicker we'll have all this sorted. OK? 36 00:02:08,920 --> 00:02:10,920 Yes. Good. 37 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,480 And so we are interviewing her at the same time as speaking to you, 38 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,760 which means any answers you give us, we'll be checking with her 39 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,960 to see if they tally up and vice versa, 40 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:21,000 does that make sense? 41 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:22,360 Yes. Good. 42 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,800 Although do bear in mind that Anne does not have 43 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,640 a very sophisticated grasp of financial matters. 44 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,640 Right. Just the one brain cell, you see. 45 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:33,440 Your wife of 34 years. 46 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:34,760 Tell me about it. 47 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,960 Would you like me to repeat the question, Anne? 48 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:39,920 No, I heard the question. 49 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,000 When I started the insurance claim, I still believed him to be dead. 50 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,040 You took quite a long time to answer that. 51 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:53,080 But she did. 52 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:54,920 I'm just wondering why you hesitated? 53 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,120 She's answered the question. Can you move on, please? 54 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,280 Just remember, Anne, this is your interview. 55 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,160 This is your chance to tell us your side of things. 56 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:08,720 He turned up half way through. 57 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:09,800 'It's not true.' 58 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:11,680 I turned up after they'd been paid out. 59 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,120 I thought you said you couldn't remember when you turned up. 60 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:15,880 The specific month, I said. 61 00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:18,080 But you can specifically remember 62 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,000 that it was after the claim was settled? 63 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:21,520 Yes. 64 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,920 Erm... Which month was the claim settled, then? 65 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,640 Ah. Nice try. I don't remember. 66 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,680 This isn't the "yes, no" game, John. 67 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,720 Your wife has already told us that you never had amnesia. 68 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,320 She's mistaken. Perhaps she's forgotten. 69 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,840 Yes, he told me he'd faked the whole thing. 70 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,000 His disappearance? Yes. 71 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,760 For financial reasons? Yeah. 72 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,040 Did he tell you where he'd been? 73 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,360 No. "Around and about," he said. 74 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:56,520 HE SCOFFS 75 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,760 For over a year? Y-Yes. 76 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:01,560 OK. 77 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,080 But why didn't you go straight to the police at that point? 78 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,240 He said if we went to the police 79 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,400 we'd have to pay the insurance money back immediately, 80 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,480 and then we'd be back where we'd started. 81 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,160 Facing bankruptcy? Yes. 82 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,800 So what was his plan at this point? 83 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,400 For me to sell all the other houses, and then hand himself in 84 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,880 when we were in a position to pay the money back. 85 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,760 OK. And how's that plan going? Well, I'm here, aren't I? 86 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,120 I'm not with you. Why else do you think I returned? 87 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,440 I don't know, why did you? To pay the money back. 88 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,000 Oh, so you've made contact with the insurance companies, then? 89 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,320 Well, I would have, if you hadn't arrested me. 90 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,040 So it's our fault. We spoilt your plan? 91 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:49,240 You and the press. 92 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:51,560 Ah, well, apologies. Accepted. 93 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,120 Can I just ask, though, John, 94 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,120 if your plan was to sell all the properties, 95 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,400 with the intention of paying the money back 96 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:02,520 when you got straight 97 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,440 why did you move to Panama? 98 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:10,200 No comment. 99 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,080 And buy a flat there? 100 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,680 No comment. And a plot of land? 101 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,240 No comment. 102 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:22,640 Well, Anne, why did you just go along with it? 103 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,880 Why didn't you tell him it was wrong and dishonest? 104 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,440 I should have and. 105 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:30,800 I should have told the boys at that point, 106 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:32,640 but he said if I went to the police, 107 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,440 he'd tell them I was in it from the start. 108 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,760 You were an adult. You could've refused. 109 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,920 And I bitterly regret my decision, but 110 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:44,800 he was hard to resist - John was very forceful. 111 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,040 Anne. 112 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:53,960 Why... 113 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,640 Why don't you just tell us the truth? 114 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,400 You were in on it from the start, weren't you? 115 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,160 She's answered the question. Can you move on, please? 116 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,000 So the, er, life insurance policies that you took out 117 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,320 just three months before you went missing, 118 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,440 is that date relevant, John? 119 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:18,880 You tell me. 120 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,200 No, you tell me. That's how this works. 121 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:22,760 Is that date relevant? No. 122 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,960 No? So it's pure coincidence 123 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,920 that you took out a life insurance policy in December 2001, 124 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,440 which then allowed your wife to make a very large claim 125 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,680 just 12 weeks later? Yes. 126 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,160 Is it also a coincidence that on a computer hard drive, 127 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,560 taken from your house soon after your disappearance, 128 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,920 we've since found a downloaded file 129 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,000 titled "Missing Persons and Police Investigations"? 130 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,600 One of the boys must have downloaded that. 131 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,960 It was dated a month before you went missing, John. 132 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:57,800 Fair play. 133 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,240 That's a tricky one. 134 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,760 OK, I'm now showing Anne Exhibit AB01, 135 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,160 which is a copy of a library card, registered at Hartlepool library, 136 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,800 in the name of "John Jones". 137 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,480 Anne, can you tell me who you see 138 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:17,800 on that photo? 139 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:20,200 SOFTLY: It's John. 140 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,920 Except this fella has a beard. 141 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,760 I presume you can grow a beard? Yes. 142 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,240 OK, so is that you, but with a beard? 143 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:32,440 Maybe. 144 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,320 John, I'm asking if you can identify yourself. 145 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,200 No comment. OK, well 146 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,280 perhaps you could read two things out for me, then. 147 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,920 The date it was issued and the address. 148 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,280 22nd of April 2002. 149 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:53,840 Address, Number Four, The Cliff, Seaton Carew. OK. 150 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,200 So just four weeks after you went missing, 151 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,280 a man who looked very much like you... 152 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,760 Ah, yeah, but with a beard, yeah, 153 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,960 applies for a library card and gives your home address. 154 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,520 But this man's called John Jones! 155 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,840 Come on, Anne, he was living at number four from day one, wasn't he? 156 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,160 No. And you knew from day one. 157 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:17,840 I didn't. 158 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,680 Were your boys in on it, too? No, absolutely not. 159 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,800 Cos our economic crime unit is finding all sorts of things. 160 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,360 What things? Money transfers to Mark and Anthony, 161 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,240 fake property sales to Mark. 162 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,360 Basically money laundering, very serious of fence. 163 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,200 That was just an inheritance tax thing. 164 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,320 Please, they never knew anything about any of this, please. 165 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,320 It's interesting how upset you're getting, 166 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:49,200 and I tell you, I do not wanna have to bring your lads in. 167 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:50,760 Please don't. 168 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,280 The best way to head that off is for you tell us the whole truth. 169 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,360 You were in on it from the start, weren't you? 170 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:57,560 No. 171 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,920 And you knew John was perfectly fine when you dialled 999 172 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:02,640 and said he was missing. 173 00:09:02,680 --> 00:09:06,480 In fact, I'm surprised the attending officer didn't see wet footprints 174 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,000 going up the stairs. 175 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:10,640 Am I right? 176 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:15,960 No comment. 177 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:18,440 'Have a seat.' 178 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,880 So, we need to have a talk about bail. 179 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:28,280 No. No bail. 180 00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:33,120 You do understand what happens now, don't you, Anne? 181 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:37,360 Anyone not released on bail is kept in a prison, 182 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,720 on remand, until their trial. 183 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:43,440 Where would I even go? 184 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:49,400 I only have one friend, and she won't speak to me now. 185 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,080 Obviously none of my family would want me, so where would I even go? 186 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,000 DISTANT SIRENS WAIL 187 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:02,840 OFFICER: Mind the step. 188 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,440 Take a seat here, please. DOOR SLAMS. 189 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,640 Heya. Hey. 190 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:33,560 It's all good, no-one's followed me. 191 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,600 I know you think I'm overreacting but last night 192 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,760 there were about 50 of them outside the house. 193 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,560 Lou's had to go stay with her parents. 194 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:44,160 I've had to check in here. 195 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,760 So I just spoke to the police again. And? 196 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:49,640 They'll want to interview us at some point. 197 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:51,360 As "witnesses", apparently, now. 198 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,160 Well, we don't do anything without a solicitor. 199 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:55,880 I'll call my lawyer, shall I (?) 200 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:57,920 Uncle Michael's sorting us out with one. 201 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:00,520 How is he? 202 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:02,680 Same as all of us. 203 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:06,560 I just can't stop thinking about the 204 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,240 literally hundreds of times we went up there, Mark 205 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,280 to keep her spirits up whilst we were dying inside. 206 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,200 'Do you know how it makes me feel, mate?' 207 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,560 Makes me really hate her. 208 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:27,800 I'm raging about them both, but at least he only told one lie. 209 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:30,920 An evil, horrible one, 210 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:33,920 but it was just one. 211 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:34,960 'Anne Darwin?' 212 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:40,280 'She lied to us every day for five-and-a-half years. 213 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,280 'Every single day.' 214 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:43,800 You start thinking, 215 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,800 "Well, if she could lie so easily about that," 216 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,080 "about our actual dad being dead" 217 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:53,040 "what else could she have lied about?" 218 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:55,440 OFFICER: Clothes in here. 219 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:57,720 Put your wedding ring in here. 220 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,080 And then I think, "Wow, is it all just some" 221 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,040 "fucked-up lie?" 222 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:12,200 Our family 223 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,120 our childhood 224 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,200 our whole life with them? 225 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,680 Did either of them ever even genuinely love us? 226 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,200 PRISONERS CHAT INDISTINCTLY 227 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:36,440 So that's me. 228 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,320 That's where I am, mate. 229 00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:44,560 ANNE: 'And here I was. 230 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,160 'Where I'd feared ending up all my life. 231 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,200 'Utterly alone.' 232 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,520 DOOR BANGS 233 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,000 LATCH CLUNKS, KEYS JANGLE 234 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,880 WOMEN SHOUT DISTANTLY 235 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,400 'It's from John.' 236 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:22,040 "Dear Dad, just to let you know, please don't worry." 237 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:25,240 Carry on. 238 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,200 Sorry. That's it. 239 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,880 JOHN ON PHONE: 'I really don't think you've given any thought 240 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:38,560 'as to what it's like for me. 241 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,400 'An ex-prison officer in prison. 242 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,880 'I've had my food spat in, I've been punched, abused verbally. 243 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,560 Whatever you think it's like for you, 244 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,840 it's so much worse for me. 245 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:51,480 'Except it wasn't. 246 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,960 'John had already given up his boys once, 247 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,600 'without a second thought, really. 248 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,680 'For me, it felt like my heart had been ripped out.' 249 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,800 'My darling son, I wanted to write you again 250 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,920 'to tell you how profoundly sorry I am for what I have done. 251 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,960 'I will never be able to explain my actions, 252 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,560 'because what I did was as inexplicable 253 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,320 'as it was unforgiveable. 254 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:22,640 'But what I can say is that I love you so much. 255 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,960 'I always have loved you, and I always will love you, 256 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,960 'even if you never want to see me again. 257 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,560 'Which I fully expect to be the case.' 258 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:36,560 HE SIGHS 259 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,880 'And indeed, despite the dozens of letters I wrote to them 260 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,520 'over the next few months, neither replied. 261 00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:59,600 'How could I possibly blame them? 262 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:01,920 'And so, finally 263 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:07,080 'finally, I realised there was only one way forward 264 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,840 'if I ever wanted to see them again.' 265 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,200 'I lied.' 266 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,000 I was in on it from the very start. 267 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,160 So you knew, before he went out in the canoe, 268 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,440 that he intended to fake his own death? 269 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:27,680 Yes, I did. 270 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,760 And when you reported him missing? I knew he was fine. 271 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,080 In fact, I'd picked him up from North Gare beach 272 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:34,440 about two hours before 273 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,400 and then driven him to Durham station, 274 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,240 where he got the train to the lakes 275 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,720 and camped by a stream for the next three weeks. 276 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,000 He then came back to Seaton 277 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:47,200 and lived between numbers three and four for the next five years. 278 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,280 I never wanted to do any of it. 279 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,240 And I tried constantly to persuade him not to. 280 00:15:58,400 --> 00:15:59,920 But I did do it. 281 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:02,920 I was in on it 282 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:05,400 from the very beginning. 283 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,480 And I'm very, very sorry. 284 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,120 OK. 285 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:40,480 Yes. 286 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,440 I faked it all. 287 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,120 DOOR CLANGS 288 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,760 Oh, my God. John. 289 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,000 HE BREATHES DEEPLY 290 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,760 They said I could see you for two minutes. Who did? 291 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:16,840 J... please... 292 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,640 Cos we're all we have now, love. Each other... 293 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,520 John, someone could walk in... We just have to stick together. 294 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:23,880 OFFICER: That's enough, fella. 295 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:26,560 Right, out, now! 296 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,760 I also wanted to tell you 297 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,800 that I forgive you, Anne. 298 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:39,360 WHISPERING: I do. 299 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:49,920 Call me, Anne! 300 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:52,680 DOOR BANGS 301 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,640 'Even harder than confessing to the police 302 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,680 'was telling my parents that the daughter they had always adored 303 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,840 'had betrayed every single principle they had ever believed in. 304 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,760 'I fully expected them to disown me. 305 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:30,120 'But I am guilty.' 306 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,680 Well, that's what I'm saying, if we can prove that you were coerced, 307 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,120 then no, you're not. 308 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:38,960 I didn't have to do anything. 309 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,040 I was an adult, I made my own choices. 310 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:42,960 He never threatened me or hurt me. 311 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,760 Physically, no, but emotionally? 312 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,360 Every day of your life together, as I understand it, 313 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,920 and I think I can argue that that wears a person down, 314 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,280 day after day year after year, 315 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,640 till they no longer have the strength to resist. 316 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,360 So what would I get? For a guilty plea, I mean. 317 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,400 Maybe... three years? 318 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,880 Four, four-and-a-half if you go not guilty and lose. 319 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,600 Which I should stress is entirely possible. 320 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,040 It's a tough defence to prove. 321 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,080 But if it succeeded? 322 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:21,840 Well, then you'd walk free. 323 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,640 'It was a horrible decision to have to make. 324 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,400 'And for many weeks, 325 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:35,440 'I had absolutely no idea what the right thing to do was.' 326 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,320 WOMEN LAUGH 327 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,960 ON PA SYSTEM: 'Officers requested in rec area three. 328 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,200 'Please report to Officer Crenshaw.' 329 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,800 'And then a few days before my first hearing, 330 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,880 'my parents came to see me. 331 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,920 'These good, good people, 332 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,960 'my flesh and blood who had been so shamed and let down, 333 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,320 'told me whatever I'd done, they still loved me. 334 00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:05,680 'That they would always love me.' 335 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,880 I'm so scared my parents will die before I get out. 336 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,080 And I think, if I could just see my boys 337 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,440 talk to them, maybe I could... 338 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,000 And he did make me do it, he really did. 339 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,160 I... I tried to stop him so many times. 340 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,920 OK, well, the pre-trial hearing is in three weeks. 341 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,120 How do you want to plead? I want to go not guilty. 342 00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:51,560 'And then, finally, the day arrived. 343 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,400 'I'm not sure what I was most scared of 344 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:59,280 'the trial itself or seeing my boys in court. 345 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,640 'A torment John avoided by already pleading guilty. 346 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,760 'I was on my own.' 347 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,680 OFFICER: OK, Anne, it's time. 348 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,080 BARRISTER: 'Members of the jury, the defendant stands before you, 349 00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:19,280 'charged with 15 counts of deception and money laundering. 350 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,280 'Mrs Darwin's defence is one of marital coercion, 351 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,640 'but, for this to succeed, it must be shown 352 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:31,120 'that her husband was present each time an of fence was committed. 353 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:32,520 'It is the Crown's submission 354 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,920 'that not only was her husband very often not present, 355 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,840 'but that over a period of five-and-a-half years, 356 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,760 'and with multiple opportunities to end the deceit, 357 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,040 'she in fact repeatedly offended 358 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:51,200 'willingly, individually and actively.' 359 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,760 'We will furthermore show 360 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,560 'that, far from being a submissive and coerced wife, 361 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:03,040 'Mrs Darwin was in fact a clever and ingenious liar 362 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,720 'who was able to effortlessly deceive 363 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,960 'on an almost industrial scale. 364 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,080 'To the police, to the Coroner's Court, 365 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:12,800 'to her work friends and colleagues 366 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,000 'and, perhaps most shamefully, to her own children.' 367 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:18,400 All rise. 368 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,160 And lastly, members of the jury, 369 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,960 as sons, daughters, mothers yourself, 370 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,280 I will ask you, when you look at that infamous photo 371 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,600 in a Panamanian estate agent, 372 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,120 if you see a terrified woman, 373 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,960 coerced in to telling her children their father was dead, 374 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,160 or if you see a devious and wily woman, 375 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,240 smiling at the prospect of a new life 376 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:43,880 in a tropical paradise, 377 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,560 paid for with the fruits of her dreadful fraud. 378 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,240 It crushed my world. 379 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,360 Of course it did. 380 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,840 I loved him. He was... He was a great dad. 381 00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,800 Crushed my entire world. 382 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,240 'It might have appeared like I took control, but I didn't really.' 383 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,960 It was only ever within the confines of what he ultimately wanted. 384 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,600 Are you a good liar, Mrs Darwin? 385 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,320 I hope not. Well, did you convince your sons 386 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:15,440 for five-and-a-half years their father was dead? 387 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,960 Yes. And the police? 388 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,360 Yes. And the coroner? 389 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,360 So, you are telling the court, on oath, 390 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,680 that he forged your signature? 391 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,080 He made a footer template of it on his computer. 392 00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:34,760 So any letter, any instruction to a bank or lawyer or whoever, 393 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,360 he could write it 394 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,880 and it would appear to be from you? Yes. 395 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,080 So, you had no idea at all? 396 00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:43,400 She told me it was to do with inheritance tax. 397 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,280 And you believed her? 398 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:48,360 She was my mother. 399 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,120 And was money important to him? Yes. 400 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,200 And the appearance of it? Maybe. 401 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:55,840 And your mother? 402 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,560 Er... I'd always thought the opposite. 403 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,000 "I cannot wait to join you, my darling. 404 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,080 "Missing you so much." 405 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:07,000 "All my love." 406 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,600 "Kiss, kiss, kiss." 407 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,480 Who wrote that? 408 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:14,560 I did. 409 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,640 "Generally, I only ever take her out to vote." 410 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,880 He actually said that? Yes. 411 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,120 To a friend of his in front of you? 412 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,440 Yes. I think he thought it was funny. 413 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,880 Angry, betrayed 414 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,040 stupid. 415 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,520 I felt all of that. 416 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,960 I still do. Every single day, I... still have very negative... 417 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,720 Where was John when you roped your unwitting children 418 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,240 into laundering money for you? 419 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,760 He was in Panama. 420 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,880 My point is that he wasn't standing over you 421 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,360 as you spoke to the bank, 422 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,240 forcing you to commit a criminal act, was he? 423 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,680 He didn't need to actually be in the room. 424 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,280 He was on the end of an email, or phone, or just in my head. 425 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,440 You can fight your corner, can't you? 426 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:06,560 I can now. 427 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,520 Under immense pressure, in a public trial. 428 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,960 But not, apparently, at home with your non-violent husband. 429 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,120 You don't know what to think. 430 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,240 I mean, it took me a long time to even believe the photo was real, 431 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,320 that any parent could have done such a thing. 432 00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:25,080 It took me a long time to accept that. 433 00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:28,320 I'm not even sure I have. Maybe I never will. 434 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:31,720 Can I ask, why didn't you just leave him? 435 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,520 This man you claim was an oppressive bully. 436 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,480 I wanted to keep the family together. 437 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:43,520 You "wanted to keep the family together"? 438 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,160 Oh, the irony, Mrs Darwin. 439 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:48,800 And let me ask you this. 440 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,120 If you hadn't have picked John up from North Gare, 441 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,200 if you'd have said to him on the phone, 442 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,520 "Oh, I can't go through with this," or, "I'm not doing this to my boys," 443 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,600 what were you frightened was going to happen to you 444 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,240 for disobeying his request? 445 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,040 Was he going to beat you up? No. 446 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,000 Were you scared that when he got home, 447 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,920 he might manipulate you a bit? 448 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,160 I was frightened that he might leave me. 449 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:25,800 'The jury took less than four hours to reach a verdict.' 450 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,120 I accept that your husband, John Darwin, 451 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,080 was the driving force behind this deceit, 452 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:35,160 but you, Anne, although perhaps initially unconvinced, 453 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,760 went on to contribute to its success and play your part very efficiently. 454 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,040 In my judgment, you operated as a team, 455 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,800 each adding something to the joint venture. 456 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,400 And it is the duration of the offending, 457 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,120 its multi-faceted nature, 458 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,960 and, in particular, the grief inflicted over the years 459 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,440 to the real victims, your own children, 460 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:02,320 that make this a case that merits a particularly severe sentence. 461 00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:04,240 Anne Catherine Darwin, 462 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,320 I sentence you to a term of six years and six months. 463 00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:09,840 Take her down. 464 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,520 'It was three months longer than John got, 465 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,160 'but then I was their mother. 466 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,880 'I think most people felt I'd got what I deserved.' 467 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,000 DOOR CLANGING SHUT 468 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,160 'And so it began. 469 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,400 'Six years and six months, minus parole. 470 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,720 'I tried to keep busy. 471 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,520 'Keep myself distracted. 472 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:50,920 'I continued to write to the boys, never really expecting a reply. 473 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,160 'And John continued to write and call.' 474 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,880 Look, money's not going to be an issue, love. 475 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,880 Trust me. Our story sells. 476 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:03,640 'And I wanted to cut him off, I really did, but it was hard. 477 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,920 'After 35 years, and with nothing else in my life, 478 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,520 'even about a bad future felt better than none whatsoever.' 479 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:13,960 Fear not. 480 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:19,200 We play our cards right, we are going to be sitting pretty. 481 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,560 'And then eight months into my time inside, 482 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,480 'the prison chaplain suggested I speak to a counsellor 483 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,520 'because I could not rid myself of thoughts of death.' 484 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,720 GRACE: 'What would you like to get from these sessions?' 485 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,600 I suppose to wake up every day not hating myself would be a start. 486 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,720 And how do you think you could get to that place? 487 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:53,840 Through my family. 488 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:56,640 My children. 489 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,600 By somehow showing them that this is not who I am, 490 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,200 that I did a terrible, terrible thing, but... 491 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,560 I don't think that I'm a terrible person. 492 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,200 I don't expect forgiveness. 493 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,600 I never expected to be forgiven. I just ask for second chance. 494 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,520 To show them that... I could be a good mother again. 495 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,800 Be the person I used to be, or should have been. 496 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,560 Could may be even still. 497 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,400 And who was that? 498 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,880 She was kind, I think. 499 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:40,480 And loving. 500 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,080 With conscience. She knew right from wrong. 501 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,000 And she didn't want much. 502 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,240 A happy family, enough money to pay the bills. 503 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:00,800 A simple life. 504 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,800 So, how do you get back to her? 505 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,520 I don't know. 506 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,040 OK, mate. You take care. 507 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,360 How is he? 508 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:19,720 Angry. 509 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,360 Sad. 510 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,480 Laughing about it, and then... crying. 511 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,520 Fucked up, basically. 512 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:36,960 And you? 513 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,600 It just feels like they're both dead. 514 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:47,840 I'm not sure I can bear that. 515 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,160 'I was never a confident person.' 516 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,840 When I look back... my first encounter with him, 517 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,640 John... was when I was 14 on the bus. 518 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,440 And he knocked my school hat off. 519 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,480 It was just a silly joke, and. 520 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,920 I'm sure he didn't mean to, but... he made me feel stupid. 521 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,800 More stupid. 522 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,800 I was already very aware I wasn't academic, like him. 523 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:29,880 But 524 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:35,160 maybe that set the tone, as it were. 525 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,320 Because he was the only boy I ever... 526 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,480 And I went straight from my parents' house 527 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,040 to living with him after we got married, so. 528 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,800 I never knew anything but him. 529 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,920 How he spoke to me... how he regarded me. 530 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,680 And I think that's been quite a thing, 531 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,120 for the last 35 years. 532 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,000 Anne? 533 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,040 Hope it's good news. 534 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:27,480 Thank you. 535 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,040 'Dear Mum, I hope you are well 536 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,000 'and not finding things too difficult. 537 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,240 'We are all still trying to adjust to what has happened, 538 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,400 'which has not been easy. 539 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,600 'But I would like to come and see you, 540 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,200 'so I'll send a request today. 541 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,040 'Take care of yourself. Mark.' 542 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,600 SHE SOBS 543 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,280 I'm just not there. 544 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,720 You don't have to apologise. 545 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,200 HE SIGHS 546 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,880 Maybe it's the baby, just... HE EXHALES SHARPLY 547 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,360 knowing I could never do anything to hurt him. 548 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,200 But either way, I'm just not there. 549 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,040 PEOPLE CHATTERING 550 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:06,920 Mum? 551 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,320 We didn't even know until the trial 552 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,320 that you'd been in on it from the start. 553 00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:35,280 That when you hugged me 554 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,000 that first night I came up 555 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:40,560 you knew! 556 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,480 I'm so sorry. 557 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,000 Everything we found out, you made us find out in public. 558 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,640 Online, newspapers. 559 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:51,920 In a bloody court room, Mam! 560 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,000 And there is no excuse. 561 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,840 A reason'd help. 562 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,320 Why, after everything you'd done, you still kept lying. 563 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,960 For the same reason I ever did, Mark, just the shame. 564 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,680 The terrible, terrible guilt and shame I felt. 565 00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:05,800 So it was about you, is it? 566 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,840 H-How telling the truth would make YOU feel? 567 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,480 I knew it would break your hearts, love. 568 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,160 No, no, no, no. No! No! You don't... 569 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,520 Don't you dare cry! I'm sorry. 570 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,720 And I just kept thinking, hoping, praying, 571 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,920 all along that there would be some way I could fix it 572 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,320 before that had to happen, but there just never was. 573 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,800 No, you were probably too preoccupied 574 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,720 drinking pina coladas on the beach! 575 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,720 GRACE: 'What did you expect?' 576 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,760 No more than what I got. 577 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,040 ANNE SNIFFLES But I suppose... 578 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,440 I thought I might be left feeling a tiny scrap of hope. 579 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,400 And again, I know I don't deserve that, but 580 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,800 it doesn't stop me yearning for it. 581 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,160 SHE SNIFFLES 582 00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:12,720 It's been so long. 583 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:16,520 DOOR BUZZES Am I sorry? 584 00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:20,960 Well, that I got caught, yes. Very! 585 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,800 But seriously, of course, if what I did 586 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,320 upset you, then yes. 587 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,400 Of course I'm sorry. 588 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,000 Tell me about the American woman. 589 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,200 And all the others you've been writing 590 00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:44,760 your shabby little letters to. 591 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,480 'I know what should be the first step.' 592 00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:58,800 "Should"? 593 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,280 Well, because whether I could actually do it not, I don't know. 594 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,920 And what are we talking about? 595 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,360 Leaving him. 596 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,360 OK. 597 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,920 And why might you not be able to do that? 598 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,000 I find the idea petrifying. 599 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,400 Despite all the wrongs you feel he's done you? 600 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:23,840 Yes. 601 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:28,600 And what specifically is it that you're scared of? 602 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,120 Everything. 603 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,920 I've never lived any part of my life on my own. 604 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,240 I wouldn't know how to even be, who I even am. I mean, 605 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,880 for my entire adult life, 606 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,320 I've just been an extension of him, really. 607 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,440 Or not even that, just a nothing. 608 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:52,680 Invisible. 609 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,760 And so starting again, from scratch 610 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,240 trying to create a new me at the age of nearly 60 611 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:05,960 it makes me sick with fear, Grace. 612 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,520 Slightly different tack. Does John make you happy? 613 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,480 He has done at times in our life. 614 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,280 I'm not happy now, obviously, 615 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,720 and haven't been much in the last ten years or so, 616 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:18,400 but before that, yes. 617 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,160 But on balance? Would you say he's been good for you? 618 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,480 He gave me two beautiful sons. 619 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,120 'I knew what she wanted me to say, but as ridiculous as it may seem. 620 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,200 'I just didn't feel strong enough to be on my own.' 621 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,480 He's beautiful, mate. Must have Lou's genes. 622 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,920 Well, I bloody hope so. 623 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,280 Wouldn't want too many of our side in there. 624 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,840 No, fair enough. 625 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,200 Flick was just saying you saw her again last week. 626 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:04,680 Yeah. 627 00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:09,000 And how was it? 628 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,240 It's still hard. 629 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,240 I'm not quite sure what I'm hoping for. 630 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,000 I think... 631 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,400 I think I've just come to the conclusion 632 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,680 that I'd prefer to have her in my life than not. 633 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,320 Dad? 634 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:34,920 Harder. 635 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:38,960 I'm not sure he really gets it. 636 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,560 Or ever will. 637 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,080 So, I wrote to her yesterday. 638 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:52,800 Requested a visit. 639 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:55,880 OK. 640 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,360 So... all I'll say 641 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,360 just don't expect any... blinding moment of forgiveness. 642 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,200 Cos my guess is that ain't gonna happen. 643 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,840 I think it's just gonna be this very long, slow 644 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,200 accommodation. 645 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:29,920 DOOR CLOSING 646 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,200 Hello, Mam. 647 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:54,120 Hello, love. Thank you so much coming. 648 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:55,440 I'm so pleased to see you. 649 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,280 Well, I couldn't not let you meet this little fella, could I? 650 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,400 I don't know what to say. How old is he? 651 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,120 He's four months now. 652 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,440 He's beautiful. 653 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,640 He takes after his mother. 654 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,880 Who asked me to say hello and that she sends you her love. 655 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,400 That's incredibly kind of her. 656 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,400 Please send her my love and huge congratulations. 657 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,520 Would you like to hold him? 658 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,080 I would, very much. 659 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,200 BABY FUSSES 660 00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:51,040 Aw... 661 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,520 'It was an extraordinary act of generosity 662 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,280 'that I didn't deserve. 663 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,160 'And it finally gave me the strength 664 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,440 'to do what I had needed to do for so long.' 665 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:03,920 BABY BABBLES, SHE LAUGHS 666 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,520 PHONE RINGS 667 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:11,760 Hello? 668 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,640 What the hell's going on? 669 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,720 You've stopped writing. You haven't been taking my calls. 670 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,280 Why? 671 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,200 You don't make me happy, John. 672 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,040 I think you haven't for many years. 673 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:25,480 You don't hear me. 674 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,320 'You don't listen to me...' That is total rubbish, Anne. 675 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,720 'You don't know what you're...' You're not listening now. 676 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,520 Just stop talking, please. Just stop always talking and listen. 677 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,240 But much more important than any of that, 678 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,320 I don't think you love me, John. 679 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:42,920 I do. 680 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,440 I do love you, Anne, very much. 681 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,400 Or why would I have stayed with you for all these years? 682 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,720 'Don't do this.' 683 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,640 Don't throw 36 years and two smashing boys away. 684 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,400 'We can be happy again.' 685 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,400 I promise we can. 686 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,720 No. 687 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,560 I don't think you do love me. 688 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,240 Or maybe you just don't know what proper love is. 689 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:12,880 Please. 690 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:17,160 And either way... I don't love you any more. 691 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:18,880 You've hurt me too much. 692 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,560 You do love me. 'No.' 693 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,440 No, I don't. And I want a divorce. 694 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,920 'About eight months before my release, 695 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,400 'I was transferred to an open prison 696 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,800 'to help prepare me for my return to normal life. 697 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:04,240 'And then in March 2011, a few days shy of nine years 698 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,440 'since John had paddled out to sea, 699 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,800 'I was released to a halfway house in Leeds. 700 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,200 'I was finally free. 701 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,560 'I'm not sure I'll ever truly understand 702 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,800 'why I made the choices I did. 703 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:35,240 'It was, as my counsellor said, complicated. 704 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:38,760 'My children still struggle 705 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,240 'and will certainly never be able to forget what I did to them, 706 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,640 'nor should they. 707 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:46,960 'We all know we're on a journey 708 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,240 'that will last the rest of our lives, 709 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,240 'but we are at least on that journey. 710 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,840 'And for that gift, 711 00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,520 'I remain more grateful to them 712 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,600 'than it will ever be possible to express. 713 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:14,080 'They say the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference, 714 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,280 'which is what I now feel for my ex-husband. 715 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,640 'But I wish him well 716 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,120 'and sincerely hope that he finds happiness. 717 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:29,720 'I will try to do the same. 718 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:36,000 'I will also keep trying to find me.' 719 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,400 Subtitles by accessibility@itv.com 719 00:46:16,305 --> 00:47:16,266 Advertise your product or brand here contact www.OpenSubtitles.org today 54260

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