Original subtitles

I always knew that this problem was big.

I always knew that there was nothing special about me

and that this had happened.

I think that once I began teaching,

I just accessed a new level of rage about the institution

and also just our larger society that allows this to happen.

We've had a reckoning for men in film,

we've had a reckoning for predators in the church.

Yet then, classrooms.

I think that the bad guys are not only the individual actors,

but I think it is also, in a much larger way,

the problem of the administration.

No institution wants to take the responsibility

that they had a teacher who was abusive

and who was abusing their students.

There are no accountability systems for that.

It's incredibly frustrating,

and it's incredibly demoralizing.

- Hi. - Hello.

You look super MILF-y.

Oh, my God. It's so heavy.

- Here. It's all right. I got muscles. - Wait. Don't do that. I need a hug.

Do you remember when none of these overpasses and freeway things were here?

I remember when none of this existed.

Yeah. It was just, like, the country.

Being back on the highway with you,

I don't think you and I have driven together

since we were in the car and that kid flipped his Mustang.

And he slammed on his brakes

and then literally, like, flipped twice into the field.

And they were in a convertible.

That is literally one of the last memories I have...

- Wow. - ...of us hanging out.

- A car crash? - Mm-hmm.

Oh, my God!

Look at it. It makes me so sad.

I can't believe you haven't driven by here already.

Oh, my God. That was my house.

I was, like, devastated when we had to move away.

I was, like, totally devastated

'cause we had to move into, like, that really small place...

KATIE; I remember that being a time where you were really defensive.

It was over everything.

And looking back, I had no idea why, but...

As a teenager, Cheryl and I were inseparable.

Like, it wasn't a normal friendship.

It was... We were inseparable.

We had, like, a 6:00 p.m. phone call.

Whoever I was dating,

she was dating as well.

So I feel like she would have had no choice but to pull away

when something like that happens.

All of a sudden, she wasn't talking to me.

This is the girl who had told me every phone call she'd had with a boy,

every crush, every song she'd listened to since we were eight.

She stopped coming around, she stopped telling me things,

she stopped calling, and I didn't know what happened at all.

I just knew she was mad and then she was gone.

I remember feeling entirely isolated.

I mean, we didn't have a lot of people anyway.

And he took my best friend.

I feel really nervous because it's becoming clear

what the sort of consequences are gonna be

of bringing all of this stuff to the fore.

I didn't call up everybody and say,

"Hey, did you guys know I was involved with a teacher?"

Just like, "Do you wanna, like, process through this?"

After I left Little Elm.

And so I feel guilty exposing it in a way.

I feel like I'm betraying something I learned early in my life

that isn't very polite, which is, you know,

telling the truth about these things

and asking other people to come and tell the truth as well.

- Cheryl. - Yeah, darling?

This one?

Or is this too professional brunch-y?

No, no, no. I think it's great.

And also, like, we're 38,

so professional brunch-y is fine.

Don't ever say that again.

Are you nervous? I'm nervous for...

I just don't know who's actually gonna come to this thing.

I heard back from one of the girls that we went to school with

and she was, like, seemingly pretty pissed.

And I guess I'm worried that I'm becoming a person

that people can sort of direct their fear at

because I'm doing this.

It's like now I'm gonna be the enemy because I'm, you know,

I'm talking about this on a sort of bigger platform.

Okay.

When I started working on this project,

I knew that that I was gonna be stepping in some stuff

and I knew that I was gonna be kind of confronting people

about things that they didn't want to talk about,

but what I was interested in

was trying to open up this dialogue.

Coming forward about something isn't just about coming forward about it,

it's not just telling your side of it.

There's other people that had their own experiences

that have an impact on the meaning of your story.

But a lot of people who looked the other way then,

still refuse to take accountability for their actions now.

I'm just seeing how difficult it's gonna be.

Like, I feel...

I'm bummed.

So I've done every... I've, like, I've reached out

to basically everybody that I can reach out to at this point.

I wrote Brandi and Mandy again, but I didn't hear back from them.

I also tried to reach out to JD.

I thought I had a number for him, but the guy didn't respond,

so I don't know if it's his number or not.

I don't think that they're all gonna respond to me, honestly.

Like, I think some of them are slow playing,

which makes sense, but...

Let me check my Facebook.

All right. I'm gonna write Brandi Preas.

Was she in that after-school theater group of...

- Yeah. - ...kids? Okay.

Look at you. Oh, my God!

Hi!

Hi.

Oh, There I am again.

What is going on here?

We do not look happy. Neither one of us.

I think this was Shayna.

- There's Mandy and... - Yes.

...and Nathaniel.

Yeah, so I reached out to them. They don't wanna...

- They don't wanna be part of this. - Okay.

I was trying to get them to sort of talk about, you know, their experience,

but I don't know.

Have they... have they responded at all

or are they just straight up ignoring everything?

So there's been like a little bit of communication, but mostly it's just...

I got one that was, like, not hostile, but definitely like,

"Leave me alone. I don't wanna talk about this."

So I don't know.

I would... My thing is depending on their position,

like if they had the same experience with you,

maybe a bit of shame and they just don't want it brought back up.

Yeah.

You know, I...

I had issues, you know, with wanting to come forward because...

my anger towards you...

was awful.

I hated you.

I wanted nothing to do with you. I blamed you. I don't know why.

I saw

your attachment to each other.

I could see how he was favoring you.

We felt like you never got bad directions.

You always got the part.

Most people assumed you had the influence over him

and you were calling the shots in a lot of ways.

I mean, if I were to act it out, I'd be like, "Oh, my gosh."

It's like, "She's just so in love with him.

"It's just gross!"

I mean, like we did the, you know, the whole teenager angsty, "Ugh!"

It's just all we could focus on was you.

And we were a bunch of assholes about it.

And that's why I wanna do this, and that's why I did this.

I wanna go back,

and this was one of the starting points of a lot of negativity.

And so let's...

let's clear it.

- Thank you. - Mm-hmm.

After the anger settled,

there was guilt,

a lot of guilt.

The guilt for the anger, the guilt for not seeing it,

the guilt for just saying...

You know, blaming a kid instead of an adult.

Sadly, women are responsible for it all.

We get blamed for it all.

With Cheryl, people blamed her because women

get blamed for men's actions all the time.

Because someone has to be accountable and why would it be him?

If an adult male was after you,

it was because there was something you were doing.

There was something you were doing to make that adult male attracted to you.

So...

you know, when we started seeing that relationship,

I... I did... I did start getting kind of bad vibes about it,

but at the same time, I think some other people took it more as a joke,

more of saying Cheryl was looking for attention.

You know, I hung out with a lot of guys in athletics,

and a lot of it was, why Cheryl would pay attention

to this dorky teacher.

And maybe if there really was something going on,

one of the other adults, one of the other teachers

would speak up and say something.

Mexican rice, blend hot sauce.

Yeah, so this is from our Mexico trip

- senior year. - Stop it.

Crystal, you're making me sick.

No, no, no.

Oh, here comes the dancing.

Oh, no!

Oh, my God. Yeah, get it, Cheryl.

It's so weird to, like...

I don't know, think about this time.

It's very strange.

This is fun. Like, it's funny 'cause you watch this stuff

and looking back, it's super fun.

But then sometimes it's like you realize

there was so much shit, you know, going on.

There's just like so much...

- Yeah. - ...other stuff, you know?

I don't know.

- There's me and Tom. - You and Tom.

You were close with Tom too, right?

Yeah, yeah. I did two trips with Tom.

He was crazy. He was such a crazy teacher.

It's hard to... it's hard to describe his classes 'cause they were so...

he was... It's stuff that you couldn't get away with now.

No, no...

My role was I was a Spanish teacher.

I was hired in 1997

and basically the department was a disaster

and so I had to create a new culture,

and Cheryl became part of that culture

and one of my most beloved and amazing students.

It was a very small district.

I mean the graduating class, I think, of Cheryl, was not even 100.

And so we were encouraged and I think rightly so

that, you know, get with these kids, know them, know who they are.

And all of us were young teachers at that time.

There are so many different hats that teachers wear.

It's really

not just standing up in front of the class and delivering information.

It's helping take these children

and help mold them into functioning adults.

The majority of the teachers that I interacted with

seemed to really care about the students

and wanted to help make their lives better.

You do what's best for the kid. It was spaghetti education.

You just threw everything at the wall and you saw what'd stick.

The rules were very vague.

But the fact was you built those relationships,

that intimate, you know,

"Hey, I want you... I want to continue with you."

I mean, you know, the teachers

that really wanted the kids to like them...

did things to make the kids like them.

You know, I might ask my students, "What did you do over the weekend?"

But that's different than saying, "Hey, Friday night, you know, what...

"Did you go to the club? What clubs did you go to?"

And, "Oh, I was out at clubs Friday night too," you know,

and trying to seem hip.

But it never occurred to me

that somebody at that point would take it further.

There's that one percent that screws it up for everyone.

With him, it hit me on a personal level.

This son of a you-know-what was someone

who I viewed as a friend,

but you break a rule like that, you break a rule like that

and use me,

all of us paid the price for it.

All of us.

And I will never forgive him for that. Ever.

Here is the play by number 11, Landen Chambers.

Stopped by a pack of Lobos

at the 42 yard line. First and ten for the Panthers.

"It is hard to decipher my current feeling.

"I'm happy because of the events that have taken place,

"yet sad that some have to.

"Suspicious minds make me weak.

"They sit in their houses with picket fences and laugh at me.

"I just get so angry.

"Why do they always ruin our fun?

"I just want to be happy.

"I just want to keep the smile.

"The only way I can is through him."

We as humans just in general, tend to bond.

I mean, that's what we want to do with people,

and so the grooming process is designed to make a bond.

You're invested...

and you believe that they are too.

And so when it comes to moments that you might feel uncomfortable with

that you might think, "Mm, this doesn't feel right to me,"

you're not gonna be very motivated to speak out against that.

I tried to talk to Cheryl about the situation.

When I heard the rumor,

I called her and tried to talk to her about it.

She denied it. Straight away, denied it.

She said, "People are blowing it out of proportion."

That it's not... Nothing's happening. "Everything's fine."

And so I just kind of had to trust my friend at her word.

I think it's really similar

to falling into a domestic violence relationship.

You know, it starts with sort of this excitement and romance,

it doesn't start off as horrible or sad or dark or depressing,

so I think it's incredibly difficult to expect a young person

to be able to see what is happening at the time.

I wanted to just be with him.

I wanted to feel in those little, concentrated periods of time

that I was with my boyfriend.

Like, I saw him as my boyfriend.

And in my mind, he was the one who had everything on the line.

Like, he was risking his entire life for me.

It made me feel so special.

It made me feel so important to know that

if somebody found out about us, like, he could get fired.

Why would he do that unless he loved me?

Secrets aren't love, and by isolating the victim,

you're able to take away the sort of checks and balances

and you're able to take away the opportunity for a friend

or a family member or an outsider to be like,

"Huh, that's kind of messed up. Like, why is that happening?"

I couldn't tell anybody about what was going on.

Like, I couldn't tell anybody about my relationship with him.

And so it just got more and more and more and more like tunnel vision,

and the tunnel just led straight to him.

The secrecy was almost like a spiritual corner

that we both could be together in.

It wasn't real. It was pretend.

I mean, it didn't feel real

until the whole thing about my mother finding my journal.

What was your impetus for looking for the journal?

Something wasn't right.

And mostly, I got that vibe from you with your...

your attitude,

but I think you were acting different,

so I looked through your backpack.

There was a map to, like, a park

in Denton.

And I thought that seemed strange.

There was a couple of things that I read that were about play rehearsal

and that you were being more intimate with him,

that it wasn't like another school mate or something.

So... my first thought was

if anybody knew anything that was going on,

it would be Tom.

When her mother approached me to talk about it,

I was entirely blown away.

I literally looked at Theresa

and said, "Are you... What are you talking about?"

And then she showed me the diary,

she showed me the journal, she showed me the stuff.

I'm going, "Oh, my God."

And she said, "I need to talk to him."

I had to go and invent a story to get him to my house.

And then her mother...

uh, pounced.

I started talking to them and telling them about...

...what I had found in your backpack.

And he was just like, "Oh, no, no, no.

"That's not it at all."

His concept was that you were writing about what you were seeing

in his relationship with his wife.

He totally said, "No, no, you're misinterpreting."

"All this stuff, that's not about me.

"That's... You know, that's her, you know, creative writing."

And, you know, I supported him. He was my friend.

I... I basically talked Theresa down.

"Okay, listen, I guarantee this is not happening.

"This is not what's going on."

By the time we were through talking,

I felt a little foolish that I had even brought that to their attention then

because it was your diary,

it was your...

things that you were writing.

And then I thought, "Oh." I thought I'd made a big mistake

by bringing that out into the open.

When it was over, I felt like...

I had to be completely wrong about my gut feeling.

That's kind of a bummer

because it sort of throws me under the bus in a way.

Oh, well, definitely,

definitely.

I mean, you know, I think the whole intent of that conversation was

for me to feel like

fantasizing and writing in your journal,

that completely would be a normal thing for a teenage girl to do.

I think nobody in that room wanted it to be true.

Nobody looked at my emails, nobody looked at any of that stuff.

Everybody kind of believed him.

They didn't kind of believe him. They believed him.

And they all kind of, like, hugged it out or whatever

and left it.

But of course, all of the kids in school were talking about it.

You know, there were rumors,

you know, everybody knew something was weird.

It wasn't right.

But like, we were just hiding in plain sight.

Southern culture is very much you don't air your dirty laundry,

you don't talk about it, you don't tell someone else about it.

That's really the heart of it,

is that you don't talk about the hard stuff.

Everything is fine all the time.

Everything is fine.

I wasn't looking for it. I wasn't keeping an eye out for it.

You know, I was... I was very naive and I was very trusting

that adults are gonna make the right decision.

And that wasn't the only reason.

I mean, it was definitely a male-dominated school.

The principal was male, the assistant principal was male.

And, you know, you just kind of learned that you didn't want to kind of

get sideways with any of them

if you wanted your life to just be smooth.

Women are told to trust men.

And that is, you know, steeped in patriarchy,

steeped in misogyny, steeped in rape culture.

It makes it so easy for predators to take advantage.

It just makes it so easy.

People are not interested in facing this kind of story

because it is shocking, it is disturbing,

and school districts

are interested in protecting themselves

and the decisions that they make.

Call it nepotism, call it cronyism,

call it circling the wagons.

It is... up that these kids are not being protected

by the very people who take that job, who take the oath

and say, "Yeah, I will protect your children above all else."

Your job as an administrator in education is always to protect your employees.

That's being a good leader.

However, if your system is failing,

then you are definitely not doing your job.

You believe these men are good people,

you believe that they are people who would do the right thing as well,

and...

you know, we know better.

Okay, I'm gonna show you this thing.

Do you remember looking at... Do you remember this journal at all?

Probably not, huh?

This was the poem that he gave me in the hall.

He put it in my hand and he said, "This is for you."

And it was the...

moment where it all changed.

Like, I became something else.

I remember it. I don't wanna read it.

I don't wanna read it at all actually.

Can you tell... can you tell me you remember this?

Okay.

Hey, what's going on?

Can you tell me what's so upsetting about this?

Yes, you did show that to me.

He was discussing...

His longing.

I just... I know that's where it goes,

and I didn't even have to read past it.

He was longing for you.

I remember being really angry, and you were excited.

And I was freaking out.

I think that I was conflicted

because you were finally, like, excited about a boy

and you were always so critical of them.

I took it to my parents.

I said something to them,

but everybody else, they just...

They weren't... They didn't listen.

The shitty poem. What the...?

- Hello? - Hello. Come in.

You are grounded.

- Come here. - So grounded.

You do not know how grounded you are.

Hi.

Cheryl was like my second daughter.

And, you know, Katie and Cheryl were very involved in everything in school.

I mean, they were... they were both, at that time, cheerleading

and doing the things that you do at that age.

And then the next thing you know...

Cheryl changed. You know, something changed.

You know, we had discussed Cheryl

in the context of the inappropriate relationship in the house.

I think my dad had hoped that it was more so gossip.

When Katie found the poem, she told us about it

and Katie's dad was like, "That's not right.

"That is not... That shouldn't be happening.

"And what do we do?"

And I said, "You're gonna go down there," 'cause I was... I was mad.

He walked into the office and they said, "Who are you here to see?"

And he said, "I wanna start at the top."

They didn't take it serious.

They shut him down.

You know, told him there was nothing going on.

Laughed at him, made him feel like an idiot.

You know, "You need to look in your own house

and not in our house," you know, like, just made him feel awful.

So then we got this letter mailed to us March 10th, 2000.

"I wanted to offer my appreciation for the time you spent with me.

"I agree with you that we have found ourselves

"in a less than desirable situation.

"In time, this issue will pass.

"All parties involved will cease from discussing the issue

"of an alleged inappropriate relationship between a student and a teacher.

"With the knowledge that I have investigated the issue

"and found it to be lacking merit.

"Again, I offer my sincere appreciation for having come in my office,

"thus permitting me to intervene in the matter."

I got called into the principal's office.

And...

the principal was there

and the counselor was there and they sat me down in this chair.

And they said,

"Are you involved

"in a sexual relationship with the teacher?"

I just remember channeling him and...

just trying to turn into a cool cucumber.

And I just said... I just said... I said, "No."

Like in a question, "No?"

And then that was it. They sent me out of the room.

This was the inflection point.

This was the point where something could've changed

and it would have been very easy, but nothing was

because it was much more convenient for the administration to just

slide it right under the rug and keep going.

If they had told my mother

what was happening,

if they had told my mother that they were even calling me

into the office to ask me about these things,

if the administration had told her

that my best friend, Katie, was the person who had told her father about this,

it would've put more questions in her mind.

But they didn't.

It would've made the school look bad.

They don't want anything public,

they don't want anything to appear like anything is wrong.

They want to just handle it and make sure it's quiet.

I went to school the next week

and our Spanish teacher, Mr. Warrick,

kind of backed me into the corner.

And he basically told me that

he would fail me if I continued to run my mouth

like a spoiled, entitled...

little girl.

I was removed from my Spanish class

and placed in a distance learning environment.

And I stayed there.

I quite honestly do not remember

the conversation that you are talking about.

I'm not trying to be... No, I'm trying to...

I think... I'm going through the Rolodex of my memory,

but I can't remember the conversation you're talking about.

I'm sorry.

There's so many things in this section

I'm just looking at right now.

It's like Nabokov and Henry Miller and Of Mice and Men.

And, like, all of that stuff that's on this row.

And I just remember, like,

coming here and, like, thinking of this big artist life

that I was gonna live, you know what I mean?

Just sitting and...

reading and dreaming and all of that, you know?

Like Lolita, you know,

I was like obsessed with it.

When I first read Lolita, he had sort of given it to me.

So I just read it as quickly as I possibly could,

like, read it cover to cover.

I don't know. I just...

I guess I used to, like, compare myself to Lolita sometimes.

And then I think in the very beginning, he was like,

"No, no, no, it's nothing like that. It's nothing like that.

"That's not our relationship." But then I think he kind of...

played the game, you know? And was like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is."

In his way. But, you know, like...

Yeah, I don't know.

I might need to take a break honestly, if that's okay.

I'm just feeling a little, like, drained.

Yeah.

I'm gonna get these colored pencils because...

- Oh, yeah. I forgot about them. - ...why not?

Here. I'll put 'em here.

Okay.

- You're an artist and I'm not, so... - I'm not an artist.

- I'm just... - I'm already at a disadvantage here.

Oh, this is a competitive sport?

Yeah. Isn't everything?

There's a lot of stuff that, like, you and I didn't talk about

- over the years and... - No.

...I'm trying to be, like, as honest and detailed

and all of that, as possible.

- You know? - Yeah.

So why didn't you wanna talk to me about it?

Like, why didn't you wanna ask me about it?

You know, it just...

You know, after a while, you just...

You want everybody to say, "You know what?

"Just get over it and forget about it and let's move on with our lives,"

because that's...

I mean, that's what...

what people need to do, get on with their lives.

But that would be one of my questions to you is,

did you feel like you were going to just not talk about it

for the rest of your life?

Yeah, I think so. But also I think I was so kind of ashamed

because the whole narrative is,

"Well, Cheryl, you were so mature. We expected a lot out of you," you know?

But then the problem is that...

You weren't, you were 16.

The people that think you should have known better,

I mean, jeez, they're the stupid ones in this because they're not looking at it

from the... from the right direction.

You know, you were a target of something and from someone

that was obviously an expert at it.

I mean, I should have...

You know,

I think now you look at anything and you say...

going forward, my very first gut instinct,

I'm going with it no matter what.

Parents in general make a lot of mistakes too,

so I feel bad about...

about how all that happened.

So you know, you can't change anything now,

you can just maybe learn from it.

Doing this, I think it's an eye opener for everybody.

You're better off if you just get everything out on the table.

And I think that probably will make you sleep better at night, too, right?

Yeah.

There are just going to be people who are predators,

but I think that what we can shift is that middle ground

where people are justifying or normalizing behavior that is toxic.

Like, people would joke about students having sex with their teachers

like it was funny.

I don't think anybody really understood what the fallout of that was,

what I went through, how it affected me, how it affected my relationships,

and how it affected my sex life.

It's hard, you know?

Like, it's... hard.

Hello.

Sorry, I didn't know how much vegetable we needed, so...

- We didn't need any vegetable. - Yeah, I know but I brought chips...

- I told you I would take care of all this. - I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.

But I did it anyway, 'cause you don't show empty-handed, you know?

I've got food all ready to go whenever we get done

with whatever this is, this beginning thing.

- We'll break and have some food. - Yeah.

So help yourself. Do you want some...

I got... I got... like I said, I got Topo Chico if you want.

- That sounds amazing. - No. Not a problem.

In reality,

no one is prepared for teaching. No one.

No one can walk in the classroom and go like, "I got this."

- Yeah. - It doesn't happen. It never happens.

Most of our teacher education was...

quite literally bullshit.

It was theories of education, how to teach people.

It had nothing to do with how to interact with kids

and nothing to do with, like, the rules.

And then you get these 23, 24-year-olds and you toss 'em into the classroom?

- It was a disaster waiting to happen. - Yeah.

There was just... There was a lot of stuff going on at the school

where it was pointing to this thing happening with

- me and him. - Mm-hmm.

I know that you were defending him and you did...

You know, he was your friend, you trusted him and stuff.

But I just wonder if there was any other...

Was there... Were there... Was there any other time

where you thought, "Maybe this is true," like, "Maybe this is happening"?

Because there was...

- There were rumors. - No, that's a good question.

It's a totally... it's a totally honest question.

But, you know, it was just like...

You know, we... We just... We...

We trusted our instincts more than we trusted our professionalism,

if that makes any sense. We just kind of said, "Oh, there's no way.

"Nope. Not gonna happen."

It just wasn't gonna... You know, "There was nothing going on.

"It was no big deal."

But we were young. I mean, we were like, what,

eight years older than you?

Mm. Yeah, like 13.

- Yeah. - Yeah.

No, I was... You were 17, I was, well, 27.

- So yeah, okay, 11, 12 years. - Yeah.

And, you know, we didn't know the rules.

We were dumb-ass kids thinking that we were

behaving like adults.

- And... - You were really dumb-ass adults

behaving like kids though, you know what I mean?

But, yeah, we were just making it up as we go along, you know?

And so all that mix

of relationships and everything,

it just kind of all got tossed into a blender.

I mean, I've had relationships with female students,

nothing like that,

but I've had those close relationships where they look at me

as something more than a teacher, as a guardian, as a mentor.

It's the curse of being a male teacher

that anytime a teenage girl would have some sort of, like,

connection with you,

they would flag you, they'd bring you in.

It was the classic,

"Is anything going on?

"Anything happening?"

And of course I would tell, "No, there's nothing."

I had one time where I was brought in

and they said, "Well, we heard you're having sex on your teacher desk."

And I go, "Have you seen my desk lately?

"That's my filing system. I would never screw my filing system up.

"So whatever they're saying. No.

"Invest... Investigate me. Please investigate me."

And so as a male teacher, especially as a young male teacher...

Unfortunately, that's par for the course.

It is. It is what it is.

Who is there to protect us? Nobody.

Nobody is there to protect us.

Women are a threat.

And it's so...

It is so deep, deep within us.

I need to control you because I can't control myself around you.

Try to be welcomed into the world with that body.

Try to not fight with your friends.

Like, try to not try to please your teachers.

Like, the constant negotiation of, like,

your dangerous body in the world is, like, maddening.

And if you constantly have to negotiate that scrutiny,

then you have to look for affirmation somewhere,

you have to get validation from some place

because you have to find safety.

And so I think it's important for me

to make sure that other girls did not feel alone

in the same way that I did.

Let's start with just something super simple.

Can you tell me about why you wanted to participate

in this documentary?