All language subtitles for Paradise.Lost.S01E01.1080p.WEBRIP-OSN

Okay

Where were these found, guys?

Green one on the left side there

red one on the right side

- "231"
- 231

"Don't let nobody come up here
don't want nobody in here"

"The police in West Memphis, Arkansas"

"confirmed today that three young
boys were brutally murdered"

"The bodies of Weaver
Elementary second graders"

"Stephen Branch, Christopher
Byers and Michael Moore"

"were pulled from a shallow
creek earlier today"

"There are rumors that the boys
may have been sexually mutilated"

"The police say that they do not yet
have any suspects of the case"

"The missing 8 year old boys
were discovered in an area"

"known as Robin Hood Hills"

"a secluded patch of hills behind
the Blur Beacon Truck Watch"

"along Interstate 40 in West Memphis"

"Moon is full never seems to change"

"Just labeled mentally deranged"

"Imagine all the evil
that you could think of"

"to how someone could be murdered"

"And that's how these three children died"

- "No things to make my brain seem"
- "No family should have to go"

"through this. Unfortunately, it's gonna
happen again somewhere"

"Another town, it's gonna
happen again, I'm sure"

- "They keep me locked up in this cage"
- "Lot of bad people out there"

- "in the world"
- "I don't know why these"

"three little boys were murdered"

"Did they see something they
weren't supposed to see?"

"Did they hear things they weren't supposed
to hear? I, I don't know that"

"I see no reason, I, I see no motive"

"for why these three little
boys were murdered"

"Live from KAIT-8 TV"

"good neighbors you can turn to for news"

"weather and sports"

"Tony Brooks, Diana Davis"

"Terry Wood and Dick Clay"

"This is KAIT-8 News"

- Good evening, I'm Diana Davis
- And I'm Tony Brooks

In a statement given to police and
obtained by a Memphis newspaper

17 year old Jessie Misskelley

allegedly confesses to watching
two other suspects choke

rape and sexually mutilate three
West Memphis second graders

- Jenna Newton reports
- "According to the published report"

"Misskelley told the police he watched"

"18 year old Damien Echols"

"and 16 years old Jason Baldwin"

"brutalize the children with
a club and a knife"

"The reports says Misskelley told police"

"Echols and Baldwin raped one of the boys"

"and sexually mutilated another
as part of a cult ritual"

"Misskelley is quoted as saying he did not"

"take part in the rape and mutilation"

"but that he helped subdue
one victim who tried to escape"

"At a press conference
Inspector Gary Gitchell"

"said the case against the
accused teens is very strong"

Scale of one to ten how solid
do you think the case is?

Eleven

"It appears Satanic worship may
have played a role in the murders"

"Since the very beginning
of the investigation"

"people all around West Memphis"

"have come forward with
stories of Satanic cults"

Reverend Tommy Stacy's church

is down the street from where
the bodies were found

One year ago Damien Echols
told the church's youth minister

he had a pact with the devil
and he was going to hell

I, I do know that my youth director

uh, talked to Damien extensively

at the revival that we had

and he told him that he could not be saved

that he could not give his heart to Jesus

And my youth director then
tried to get him to take a Bible

and he made the statement
that he could not take the Bible

because if he did, the rest
of them would get him

In West Memphis, Jenna Newton
KAIT-8 Night News

Christopher never hurt anybody

He had a gentle loving and giving heart

And they crucified him in those woods

"and they humiliated his little body"

They took his little manhood
before he even knew what it was

And I hate them for it

I never hated anybody in my life

And I hate these three

And the mothers that bore them

I can't imagine

what was going through Michael's mind

You know, was he...

calling for me?

"How long did they leave him there tied up"

on that ditch bank before
they decided to kill him

I mean, what were they doing to him?

Was he, was he conscious or unconscious?

Did he watch the other two boys

- get cut?
- "He was really being killed"

"by real monsters"

God, I'm on TV

Now, Pam, first of all what is, uh

what are you holding in your hand

- In my hand, uh
- what's the...

It's Stevie's Boy Scout

I got it back yesterday

And I been wearing it
around my head, like this

Did he, did he like scouting?

Oh, he loved it, he loved it
yeah. He loved it

"Do you blame yourself for this?"

I have, I have

I've been a, I've, I have
been on a guilt trip about it

but, it wasn't my fault, I was at work

Have you contemplated joining Stevie

- uh, before your natural...
- Have I thought

- Would I ever...
- Have you though about suicide?

Have I? Oh

Uh...

Suicide?

I've, I've felt like dying, but not suicide

you know, no, not suicide

Do you feel that the people that were
doing this were worshipping, uh...

Satan? Yes, I do

- Why?
- And... Just look at the freaks

I mean, just look at them

They look like punks

Well, Jess told me he didn't do it

didn't have anything to do with it
he wasn't there

And I believe him

"I think the cops just
can't find who done it"

and they gotta put it on somebody

I wanna tell the whole
world, my son is innocent

because I know he is innocent

"I know where he was"

and I know he's innocent

and I wanna tell the world
and I want the world to know

This boy is not capable

of the crime that he's
uh, been arrested for

Uh, I've seen him take a little kitten

and, and love it just like
you, you'd love a little baby

"It's like a nightmare"

"A nightmare that you can't wake up from"

Our son's innocent

We intend to prove it

"Yea, though I walk through the valley"

"of the shadow of death"

I shall fear no evil

And I'm not scared of the devil

I gotta know who my comforter is

Thy rod and thy staff comfort me

And I thank you, Lord, for letting me be
able to believe in that with all my heart

"I hope ya'll really believe
in your master the Satan"

Sleuthfoot, devil himself

cause he's not gonna help you

He's gonna laugh at you
mock at you and torture you

He didn't need your help, the
devil's got all the devils he needs

The good Lord said Lucifer
and a third of the angels

were cast from heaven. He didn't need them

but he took their mind
and he manipulated them

and they prayed to Satan
and they prayed to the devil

and they had their Satanic
worship services out here

and they had all types of wild
homosexual orgies I've been told

Crazy things

To me, this place as I stand

is like hell on earth

Because I know that three babies

were killed right out here where I stand

I know my son was castrated

and possibly laid there on
that bank and bled to death

I know he was choked

I know one boy's head was
beat in beyond recognition

I know one little boy was
skinned almost like a animal

Cut, had to shave his head, had...

all types of injuries to the head

where they just keep beating
and pounding on him

and killing him and killing him

"It's like they enjoyed it"

"They killed him 2 or 3 times"

Jessie Misskelley Jr.

Jason Baldwin

Damien Echols

I hope your master the
devil does take you soon

I want you to meet him real soon

And the day you die, I'm gonna praise God

And I make you a promise, the day you die

every year on May 5th

I'm gonna come to your graveside

I'm gonna spit on you

I'm gonna curse the day you were born

And I'm sure while I'm standing there

I'm gonna have to have
other bodily functions

let go upon your grave

I promise you as God is my witness

I'll visit all three of your graves

The statement Jessie
made to the police is...

is a lie, it's not true, you know

I don't see why he would do something
like that to another person

I can see where they might think I was in a
cult cause I wear Metallica T-shirts

and stuff like that, but...

I didn't do nothing like that

I couldn't kill an animal or a person

I don't worship the devil
or anything like that

I worship God, you know, like everybody

every normal person in this

around here does. I got a favorite pet

a pet iguana

I've had it a little over a year now

I usually go fishing by myself
right in my back yard

Just go out there and my
pet cat would be out there

his name's Charlie

Whenever I catch a fish
I just give it to him

I didn't kill there three little boys

I didn't kill these three little boys

They were under a lot of pressure

they had to find somebody

to lay this off on before people
started losing their jobs

And the public was getting real upset

and saying the cops were incompetent

couldn't do their jobs, so they
had to do something fast

And we were like, we
were the obvious choice

because we stood out from everybody else

So it worked out to their advantage

No one's gonna be saying that you're
stupid or that you're dump

or, or, or making fun of you

but the court should be
very interested in determining

exactly what level you're functioning

uh, how well you're able to read

how well you're able to
write, things of that nature

- Uh, huh. Mhmm
- Does that make sense?

Okay, so, if the court determines that

that you're operating, uh, below average

then there's a possibility that
the court will not be allowed

or the state will not be allowed to impose
the death penalty against you

- Do you understand what that means?
- Yeah

We've got about 10 weeks before
the trial comes up in January

Yeah

Are you looking forward
to having the trial?

A little bit, not much

- Hello
- "Operator, I have a collect call"

- "your name, please?"
- "Jessie"

- "Will you pay? Thank you"
- Yes, ma'am

- Hey, son. How you doing?
- "Hey"

- "Fine, I'm doing all right"
- Doing all right, that's good

- "My hand still hurts"
- Your hand still hurts?

- "Yeah"
- Did you find out if it broke or not?

"No, I ain't found out"

"It, I can move it"

Well, if you can move it, it's not broke

"It, it, it hurts"

Well, if you can move it, it's not broke
it's gonna hurt for a while

cause you bruised it pretty good

You just gotta learn not to hit
them walls, his somebody else

- "You, there wasn't nobody"
- Jack his jaw

- "in my room to hit"
- Oh, okay

- "I just kept, I didn't hit the wall"
- Why...

- "I hit the commode"
- Hit the commode?

"Yeah, hit it on the side"

- Well, you can sure...
- "Didn't even put a dent in it either"

- "That must be a hard commode, man"
- I heard that

- "What time ya'll gonna come up?"
- I don't know

"Ya'll can come up anytime
cause ya'll be here with me"

Well, uh...

We'll see you Saturday

They're gonna have to go
through the metal detector

when they come through the front door

Uh, every, I want everybody to do that

They've got that portable
thing that they can bring from

Little Rock if you need it

Like the airport deal?

But we couldn't afford no
3000 dollar metal detector

so what I planned on doing
was using two portables

at this door, that's why I wanted

all, everybody outside of lawyers

and I want them to come through this door

Yeah, there's a potential, uh, uh

problem area with the, the...

the strong feelings of the family

and, and that's to be understood

so security, not only coming
in and out of the courtroom

is, is a problem, but, uh...

keeping the on lookers and the family

and, and people segregated from

from the, the accused is another problem

that you'll, you'll have Darwin

My intention was to bring this boy in

before, long before court

and have him inside

Obviously I'm very concerned about security

simply because of the death threats and
other things that have happened

but, uh, I don't want to give
the jury the impression

if we have 20 state troopers

and 50 county deputies

and, and, uh, it's gonna
give the impression

to the jury that my client is a very
dangerous person which he's not

And I don't want the jury
to get the wrong impression

I don't want there to be such
a circus in the courtroom

with reporters and cameras

that the jury forgets about
what they're here for

and that is to administer justice

We expect the proof's going to
show that this defendant confessed

that he was not coerced

uh...

they, we do not contend that
the proof's going to show

that every word that came out
of his mouth was the truth

Ladies and gentlemen, the jury

this statement that Mr. Misskelley gave the
West Memphis Police Department

is a false story

The interrogation techniques
that were deployed

against Mr. Misskelley at
the time of his statement

on June the 3rd, rendered him

completely incapable

it, it broke his will, they scared
him beyond all measures

The proof is going to show

that this defendant

was an accomplice to Damien
Echols and Jason Baldwin

in the commission of
these horrifying murders

and we will ask you

to return your verdict of guilty

on three counts of capital murder

"We don't know what the truth is"

But when it really gets down to brass tacks

his daddy and I are gonna
look him square in the eyes

and say son, did you do this?

Did, was you even there?

That's when we will believe

Well, if he told me he did it

which I don't believe he did

but if he told me he did it

he'd have to do his time

Suffer the consequences

If admits to this, he would
be strictly on his own

- We wouldn't even send him a dollar
- No

- for a pack of cigarettes
- No, no, you're wrong there

- Yes, we would. No
- No, I would

He's my son

I'll send him money

- But he will have to do his time
- This is...

I wouldn't give him a nickel

- He's my son
- No, we could be

- talking about, we could be
- He's my flesh and blood

talking about my son

- Well?
- If my son did something that horrible

that, no, I wouldn't give him a nickel

- Let him suffer
- You can't turn your blood away

I don't know how you say you could

and we're gonna have a problem over this

But I know how it is being up
in there in jail without anything

Well, that's beside the
point. If he, if he's guilty

if he's guilty of doing this
to these three little boys

- No
- He's not

Well, I'm saying he's not, too

but...

if he happens to be, if it's proven

no, forget it, no

- No
- Well, I don't believe he did it

I'll never believe he did it

This is to Jessie Jr.

today's his 18th birthday

and I haven't seen him

I don't know where to go see him at

and we'll sing happy birthday to him

"Happy birthday to you"

"Happy birthday to you"

"Happy birthday dear Jessie"

"Happy birthday to you"

"Happy birthday to you"

"Happy birthday to you"

"Happy birthday dear Jessie"

"Happy birthday to you"

And don't smoke too much

Now he's legal to get a...

Yeah, he's legal to smoke now

"I may not be his biological mother but
giving birth don't make a parent"

And I've had him since he was 4

And, it took me about a year

to assure that little boy I was
gonna be here for him

He wouldn't wanna go to school

he wouldn't wanna go outside and play

because he was afraid I wouldn't
be here when, when he come in

And when he was in kindergarten
if he happened to come in

and I happened to not be
where he could see me

when he first come in, he'd be hysterical

when I got to him

And...

I've always known that...

he was...

he had a problem

And I...

I've always been real protective of him

Mom sent me this one

"There are all sorts of sons"

"Sons can be slouchy"

"Sons can be sweet"

"Sons can be grouchy"

"This is sons can be neat"

"Sons can be broke"

"Sons can be well to do"

"But no son could ever
be loved more than you"

and it says happy birthday

I cry a lot when I'm in here cause
I miss my family and everything

and, and I just cry a lot, you know

After that, I go to bed

try to sleep

"My name is Alice Sanders"

"My son was Antonio Sanders"

"and he got killed Halloween night 1990"

"My name is Brenda McLean and
my brother was stabbed to death"

I'm Brenda East, and my son Robert

23 at the time, was murdered in 1990

My name's Ann Marlin, my daughter
was Sheila Elrod Dixon

she was murdered January the 12th of 91

I'm Wanda Writning

my daughter was murdered

January 27th

we think, we're not sure

They're calling it a crime of passion

He not only throwed her out
and let her lay two weeks

he poured acid on her
to deteriorate her body

I didn't have the pleasure of...

telling my daughter goodbye

Funeral was a closed casket

This is what I had on the casket

and it's still very unreal to me

When the telephone rings
I expect it to be her

My name is Todd Moore

My son was Michael Moore
he was murdered along with

Christopher Byers and
Stephen Branch, May 5th, 1993

I cannot describe the pain

that my family has went through, you know

they didn't just kill my son
they killed a part of me

They killed a part of my wife, our daughter

I'm so frustrated because it seems
like they have so much rights

we have no rights. Like it
had in the paper the other day

now taxpayers of Crittenden County are
gonna have to buy them a suit

because they don't want
them to go into court

looking like what they are, criminals

They're in jail. They
should wear jail clothes

Why do they need to have a
nice suit bought by the county?

So they look presentable, they don't
want them in shackles and chains

You know, these are not
boys that murdered our kids

You know, they stopped being boys
you know, when they planned this

and I hear, I sit there and
watch their parents and stuff

coming out of court crying
talking about their sons' rights

what about our son's rights?

Where in the hell was his
rights out there on that ditch bank?

He had no rights. He had the
rights to be brutally murdered

be beat to death, an 8 year old little boy

Where was his rights?

I'm Diane Moore, Michael Moore's mother

Last week in, in Flash market

the Echols man was
in there, staring me down

Like it was my fault that I had a child

that his child could murder

We set in that big store
we seen the people

that are supporting these people

that look at us like we're scum

And these other people are just

the greatest thing that they've ever known

And now they wanna to have
him all just dressed up

and act like little
choirboys in court and...

here you go, He didn't do anything wrong

My son didn't do anything
wrong, he's just a boy

Now on June the 3rd, did you have a, an
assignment to locate a particular person?

My assignment was to contact
Jessie Misskelley Jr.

At that time was the defendant a suspect?

- No, sir
- If he was not a suspect

why were you assigned to contact him?

He was a, a friend with, uh

friends with Damien Echols
and Jason Baldwin

What if anything did he tell you

uh, during this conversation
before the tape recording?

Okay, he has told us that he had attended
some Satanic cult type meetings

That boys along with girls would attend

there would be sessions of sex

uh, orgies as he called them

Uh, that...

dogs and animals had been killed

and, in fact, those animals

portions of them have been
eaten by the members

"I believe is there's angels on earth"

I believe there's demons on earth

And I believe there's
angels try to help people

I believe demons try to possess

and hurt people to do the devil's will

just how angels try to help
people to do God's will

"Oh, worship the king"

"of glorious above"

"and gratefully sing"

"his wonderful love"

- "Our children..."
- "This time Mark is gonna sing a song"

"entitled Whatever it Takes"

a beautiful song, ya'll listen to him
as he comes and shares. Mark

I believe the Lord is gonna direct
me, guide me and lead me

And we're gonna give the glory to him

"There's a voice calling me"

"from an old rugged tree"

"And it whispers"

"draw closer to me"

"Lead this world far behind"

"there are no lights to blind"

"and a new place"

"in there you will find"

"For whatever it takes"

"to draw closer to the Lord"

"that's what I'll be willing to do"

"For whatever it takes"

"to be more like you"

"that's what I'll be willing to do"

- "I'll take sunshine..."
- There's no doubt in your mind

that at about 5, 30 a.m. Jessie was sitting

- in that spot...
- He was sitting right down here

I had seen the police over there twice

I'd also seen little Jessie
over there and very competent

- and he, and he was talking to me
- Police officer talked to him?

- Yes, sir
- They had to find somebody

to pin this on

This publicity was getting out of hand

Could ask those folks inside
to step out for just a second?

Uh, I know that I've talked to

to each of you, if not directly indirectly

We need to be very, very careful about

who we talk to with regard to
the media involved in this case

there are several members of the media

who apparently have no ethics

and have decided that they're gonna do
everything they can to dig up

mud and sling mud

it's not gonna do anything but hurt Jessie

and his chances of receiving a fair trial

You as, as friends of Jessie
and relatives of Jessie

are prime targets for these
members of the press

and if we just remember the one rule is

don't talk to anybody and we
won't have to worry about it

Does that make sense?

So again I, I caution you
not to talk to anybody

in the press, it's just gonna hurt us

- thanks
- "grace"

"for my will to break"

"that's what"

"I'll be willing to do"

"That's what"

"I'll be willing to do"

Head it up

You know one thing I like about
this right there black powder gun

is they can't pull any
type of ballistics on it

if by some chance you was
to shoot something with it

every bullet rifles through the
chamber just a little bit different

So, they just can't pull no
ballistics off this

There's a few people I wouldn't
mind going on shooting with it

but, hopefully the courts and the justice
system take care of them, but

they reach prison, they
gonna get took care of

I told Todd I could save
the state a lot of money

They'd just let me line those
three son of a guns up

I'd say this one here's for you Jessie
we gonna go for the jug of water

Oh, Jessie, I done blowed
you half in two, son

Now this one here is for you Damien

you that black circle right in the middle

Oh, you got hurt

Damn, that sure looked painful, didn't it?

Yeah, hey, Jason

I want you to smile and
blow me a kiss for this one

Now, let's go back to Jessie

I just wounded him, I want him to bleed

a little bit like he made my baby bleed

Oh, Jessie

Yeah, that breaks my heart
thinking about that scum

Cause this right here's all
that needs to be done to him

is just shot slowly

With a real nice firearm

and you ain't got no consideration
or no feeling who it's aiming at

just like they didn't care
about killing my baby

I'd be happy lining them up

I wouldn't have no problem with it

I think old Jessie's still kicking a little

Ya'll go ahead and put
him out of this misery

What kind of, what kind of
range we got in the courtroom?

Uh, probably about 10 foot right here

Go ahead and waste old Jessie

Don't see that being much of a problem

No

Cause I can just see the scum

That's good

Go ahead, he's wiggling

All right

Oh, I could live with that

During the course of these conversations

was anything shown to the defendant?

- Yes, sir
- All right, what was shown to him?

Yeah, there was a picture that
Inspector Gitchell showed him

Okay, and what was that a picture of?

of one of the victims

When I showed Jessie this photograph

and he took it into his hand

and he just, he just went
back in his chair like this

And, and he just locked in on it

fixed in on the photograph
and just kept staring at it

and staring at it

Initially, Mr. Misskelley

denied any involvement
whatsoever in this, didn't he?

Yes, sir, he did

Officer Ridge

the photograph that was just
introduced into evidence depicting

uh, one of the boys' bodies

- that was shown to Jessie?
- Yes, sir

And this was immediately
prior to him admitting

and telling you the story about being
present when the boys were killed?

Shortly before, yes, sir

Why did you guys do that?

There had to be a reason to do that

There were times when
Jessie would not be talking

he's, he's getting slower with information

he's, he's telling us things that are just

it's over and over the same thing

those techniques are
used to evoke a response

You and Inspector Gitchell did
these things to invoke a response

- Yes
- Invoke a confession

Invoke a response, to keep him talking

Did it ever occur to you that
Mr. Misskelley has a mental handicap?

No, sir. It didn't to me on that day

Do you have any special training dealing
with people with mental handicaps?

- No, sir
- Did it ever occur to you that

that this was gonna scare him
showing him a picture of a body?

That it would scare him? I don't know

I, I guess, he's scared into
making a statement. Yes, sir

"I, I'm getting nervous every day"

- Why?
- "Why?"

- Oh
- "Why?"

- Okay
- "That's a stupid question"

- "Okay"
- "I, boy, I can barely hold this phone"

"Well, it's just getting closer
and closer and closer"

- I know
- "I just, I don't wanna even"

"think about it. I can imagine
what they're gonna do to me"

"I can imagine. But I'm not
gonna think that though"

Think good thoughts, okay
while I'm on the phone

- "Huh?"
- Talk, talk about something good

- while I'm on the phone. Hey
- "Yeah"

You're supposed to be talking
to me, not your friends

"Well, we talking about something else"

"These people make me mad"

- "You know it?"
- Uh, huh

"They, they get to go out
and screw people and I can't"

Oh

"Well, ya'll do. But I can't do that"

Well, you will later

- "I will later?"
- Mhmm

"How do you know?"

- "I mean, if I can get out we will..."
- I know that

"but if I don't get out we won't"

"What I was gonna ask you
that last, that Sunday?"

- "Uh, huh"
- "That I had, I dreamed about you?"

- "Uh, huh"
- "Yu won't believe what I was dreaming"

"It, it freaked me out
Wanna hear it? Huh?"

Yeah

"We was, we was having sex, all right?"

- Okay
- "We went to, we went to a bathroom"

"we had sex"

"We were, when I was going through, going
uh, going out the front door"

"we had sex out there
We're doing it out in the yard"

"in front of everybody, it freaked me out"

"I woke up. Boy, I was sweating bad"

"Man, I hope that dream come true quick"

"What are you donna do
when you get off the phone?"

- Sneak back home
- "Go back home"

- Uh, huh
- "I'm gonna go back home too"

- "when I get off the phone"
- I wish you could

- "Huh?"
- I wish you could

"Yeah, well, my time's up, okay?"

- "Okay"
- "I gotta go, okay"

- "Okay. I Love you too"
- "Love you"

"Bye bye"

- Can you get it in there...
- Yeah

I think those two ought to do fine

Yeah, I'm sure they will both

Yeah, this one's good
this one came out

Okay

Oh

Be different from any other Christmas

Be one we'll never forget

Yeah, I know, it's the
first one without him

Ah

Wish you could have been
here to hear me sing lately

He liked to hear me sing

I think his little Christmas tree
it'll stay there real well

It's in there tied enough, I don't think
the wind will blow it over or anything

Come here, and kneel down here by me

Oh, God, why did you let this happen?

Please help us through it

God, please, help us through this

"This is a, uh, enlarged photograph
of the crime scene"

This is the ditch where
the bodies were found

Michael Moore was found in this area right
here at the bottom of the screen

Steve Branch was found just, just behind
where these trees are in the stream

and Christopher Byers was found
just below that body right here

This is Exhibit 22

Which is the body of Michael Moore

after removing him from the water

the way he was found

This is the body of Steve Branch

Steve Branch is the young man
that had the injuries to his face

Is it a particular part of his face?

On the left side, in there

State's Exhibit 24

the body of Christopher Byers

And what kind of injuries did Chris Byers
have, that you observed?

It looked as though his
penis had been removed

Could you see the pictures
from where you were sitting?

Yeah, that's why I had to leave

Why?

Because I'm always alone with seeing
my little boy the way he was

I'll always have that picture
of what he looked like

- In my mind
- But you never knew until now

You were worried early on that

that you said early on that you
really didn't want to know

but now, you're hearing it. I mean, is it

a lot harder than what you thought
it was gonna be, to hear?

It's a whole lot harder than
I thought it would be

It's like going back to May 5th
and reliving it all over again

Inspector Gitchell, let's talk
about the things that, that

Jessie told you that are
just absolutely incorrect

Now on page 9 of his statement

Inspector Gitchell, Jessie says that the
murders took place around noon

how did you know that was incorrect?

Because the boys, the young
boys were still in school

Did at any time when he
was telling you these things

that you knew were incorrect

did it ever occur to you that what
he was telling you was false

his entire story was false?

In Jessie's case I feel like he did
tell us a good bit of the truth

but then they also lessen
their activity in a statement

That's, uh, just common

at least in my 20 years' career...

Is it common for the
police to simply ignore

these big obvious problems

and just assume that everything
else that he's telling you

has, has gotta be correct?

Uh, Jessie simply got confused

"Uh, you and I can tell the cops"

that we know what our rights are and, uh

basically go to hell, we're not gonna sit
here and take this and walk out

Jessie Misskelley has no concept
of being able to leave a police station

I mean, the only thing that
they, the prosecution has

has put on against Jessie is this wild
story that he told the police

And I hope that the fact that there's no
physical evidence linking him

him to the crime scene, is gonna
have a lot of impact on the jury

And we're talking about reasonable doubt

- Uh...
- But, but I think you need to deal with

the lack of physical evidence, not just

not, not just let them
get away with the fact

that they were in the water
and it all washed away

A crime scene that clean has
to be purposefully planned

done that way

Okay, the, the, that the fact
that it looked washed down

- was not just happenstance
- Right, okay

- Okay, the, the, the...
- That's probably something

- like you said we can, maybe...
- Somebody, somebody

somebody intentionally

purposefully...

with great cunning and intelligence

tried to get, get rid of

every spot of blood, semen, uh

mud, footprint, anything
that may have been there

they purposefully tried
to get rid of all that

An 18 and a 17 and a 16 year
old kid don't pull this off, no

Lot of, I think there's a lot of

professional killers who don't
leave it this clean, you know

I really do believe that if the jury hears

what lust serial killers are like

and what they do and how
they leave crime scenes

the missing evidence the souvenirs

I, I have no doubt where there's
a serial killer around that

that did these murders, I have no doubt
hell, he may be in Idaho now

But, I mean, I, I'm, I don't have
any doubt about it, you know

you know, It's somebody who
knew what they were doing

had done it before, and probably
has done it since then or

or will definitely do it again

Are you aware of any personality traits

of people who are likely
to possibly confess?

Low I.Q

Highly suggestible

always attempting to solve
the immediate stress factor

Get the interrogators off my back

and just let me go home

Naively assumes that they can all
straighten it out later on

It's extremely difficult

for the average person to believe

that someone would confess
to a crime that they didn't do

and what I didn't like
about this confession

is that most of it emanated
from questions right off the bat

Without, without any narrative
of any, any length at all

Without any descriptions about feelings

or conversations or anything

I, I just don't understand

uh, if he was in fact
involved in this crime

how he made a mistake on the time factor

And the thing that really
bothers me is the ligature

what was used to tie up the, the victims

now he certainly knows the
difference between, uh...

shoelaces and a rope

That should have been a, a signal
that something was radically wrong

that's when the questions should
have been more probing

to determine whether or not he was making
it up or giving a valid confession

Out of the 100 or more
people that ya'll talked to

are you aware of anybody
other than the defendant

who told you one of the victims

that had their genitals removed

and one of them had cuts
to the side of the face

and it been some grabbing of the ears?

Uh, there was no one else that
mentioned those particular injuries

and you yourself Mr. Fogelman

you're pointing to the wrong
side of the cheek

Was there any kind of emotional response?

He had tears coming down his eyes

Right. Had ya'll yelled at him
or been mean to him or...

- No, sir
- threatened him or promised him

anything, done any of those things?

- None of these things happened whatsoever
- All right

Dr. Ofshe, could you give
us some examples of

of the police being coercive

leading or suggestive during
the course of the interrogation?

Yes, I can. Perhaps the most

powerful example, in my opinion

is the example of the 8 revisiting

of the question of the time
at which the killings occurred

The first example occurs of page 3

Detective Ridge says, all right
when did you go with them?

Mr. Misskelley says, that morning

Detective Ridge asks

"I'm not saying when they called you"

"I'm saying what time was it that you
were actually there in the park?"

Mr. Misskelley says, about noon

Detective Ridge now says

"Okay, was it after school had let out?"

This is immediately after
Jessie saying it's at noon

he's now suggesting it must be later

by saying is it after school let out

Jessie says, yes

Detective Ridge follows up with his victory

on page 24

and this time Detective
Ridge says and I quote

"Okay, the night you were in the woods"

"uh, had you all been in the water?"

Jessie replies

"Yeah, we'd been in the water, we were
in it that night playing around in it"

This is the first time in the record

that it is directly suggested to Jessie

that the correct answer
is this happened at night

immediately upon that being suggested

Jessie

is, responds by accepting and now
he starts to use the word at night

Where he had never used it before

that is an influence tactic

it is a way of getting someone
to accept something

out of pressure and out of suggestion

But that's one example, there
are many other examples

of manipulation on important points
throughout this record

Mr. Ofshe

is your going rate approximately
300 dollars an hour?

- No, that's not
- What is it?

My rate is 150 dollars
an hour for consultation

and 300 dollars an hour for time
spent in court or in deposition

So, if you're initially asked
to evaluate a case

you don't get the 300 dollars an hour

unless you give an
opinion that is consistent

with what the person who
asked you wants to hear

They don't call you as a witness, you don't
get your 300 dollars an hour, correct?

Incorrect

I don't know what the terminology
is in Berkeley, California

but when the defendant

identified who it was who was castrated

when he indicated that one
of the boys was cut in the face

you don't know and you
can't give an opinion

that any of those questions
were coercive, can you?

No, I can't because the record
that we are dealing with

is very incomplete

because this part of the record is preceded

as everyone agrees

by over two hours of interrogation

in which many subjects were discussed

for which we have no record

"Welcome to where time stands still"

"No one leaves and no one will"

"Moon is full, never seems to change"

"Just labeled mentally deranged"

"Dream the same thing every night"

"I see our freedom in my sight"

"No locked doors, no windows barred"

"No things to make my brain seem scarred"

"Sleep my friend and you will see"

"The dream is my reality"

"They keep me locked up in this cage"

"Can't they see it's why
my brain says rage?"

"Sanitarium"

"Jessie Misskelley"

"didn't tell the police anything"

"that they didn't already know"

they led him through this
entire taped statement

and ladies and gentlemen of the jury

we don't know what happened before they
turned the tape recorder on

They didn't videotape it

the officers didn't take
notes on all the questions

they testified to that

They even testified they couldn't remember
some of the things they asked him

How do we know what really happened?

The defense through bringing
in so called experts

such as Mr. Ofshe

have tried through smoke
and mirrors to make it sound like

a person that confesses
to such a heinous crime

and admits their involvement and gives you
specific details in the involvement

that's indicative of someone who
was forced or coerced to confess

Ladies and gentlemen the jury, my client

little Jessie Misskelley

is an innocent man

He's innocent

And I would ask you to
go back to that jury room

and bring back a verdict
that rings of justice

truth and justice

And I would ask you to bring back a verdict

that you can live with
for the rest of your life

See this picture, this is
this is the Moore boy

This defendant won't look up

he won't look at you

But this defendant's actions

and you just think about it

If this defendant does not
chase down Michael Moore

if he does not run through the
woods and chase him down

and bring him back

Michael Moore lives

Michael Moore gets to go home at night

his parents get to be with him

But because of this defendant's actions

because of what Jessie Misskelley Jr. did

Michael Moore's dead

Stevie Branch is dead

Chris Byers is dead

And there's no getting around

I think when you go back and
you apply your common sense

and you do what's right and you think
about the evidence in this case

you're gonna know that
what the evidence shows

is that this defendant

ran down Michael Moore

that this defendant was there

he was involved and he's guilty of three
counts of capital murder

3, 2, 1

"The jury went out at 4, 20 this afternoon"

"they'll decide if Jessie
Misskelley is guilty"

"in the deaths of Christopher Byers
Michael Moore and Steven Branch"

"Misskelley is charged
with a capital murder"

"and if guilty could get the death penalty"

"Two other teenagers charged in the crime"

"will be tried later this
month in Jonesboro"

"In Corning, Wade Hoffman, ARN News"

Short but sweet

I wanna tell you something
twitch your nose

and make them come back with
a non-guilty verdict, can you?

If I could twitch my nose and
do that I'd have been

- gone a long time ago
- We've been praying to God

- There's still hope
- That's right

- There's still hope
- I'm not giving up though

No, no, no, no, no

Don't ever. Don't give, don't get
in there and get mad and go

Oh, don't ever get mad...

They tell me, how come he
always keeps his head down?

- Well...
- Because I was told

- to keep my head down
- That's right

If you'd raised up, looking around, then
they would be saying something else

- so that don't matter
- They're gonna, they're gonna

That's like they're saying
about, uh, Damien

Oh, it's Jason looking around

- No...
- Damien is a good kid

- That's what it was...
- I guess...

- I don't know
- I don't know, I don't know about him

I didn't realize how much
I loved him, until this

I always loved him but this is just...

- Well, thanks a lot
- I mean, no

I always loved you, I'm just
saying I didn't realize how much

You're coming home

Gotta get out of here

Just say a prayer

- when the jury comes out
- Yeah

Oh, I know...

Cause we'll be sitting and saying one...

- for you
- Hopefully I'm gonna get out

Sure, hope so. We hope
we can carry you home

This is kind of horrible, oh, my God

But you got it...

"All right, ladies and gentlemen
I, I, in the audience"

I am acutely aware

that...

your feelings are on edge

that there is a great
deal of emotion involved

but the court cannot
tolerate and will not tolerate

any verbal outbursts, and
a display of emotion whatsoever

And I, I recognize that that's difficult

and that's why I'm warning you in advance

Uh, the verdicts read as follow, uh...

"We the jury find Jessie
Lloyd Misskelley Jr."

"guilty of first degree murder
in the death of Michael Moore"

"We the jury find Jessie Lloyd
Misskelley Jr. guilty"

"of second degree murder
in the death of Stevie Branch"

"We the jury find Jessie
Lloyd Misskelley Jr."

"guilty of second degree
murder in the death"

"of Chris Byers, signed by
T.J. Williams, foreman"

All right, Mr. Misskelley, if you could

come around to the front here and stand

All right Mr. Misskelley, did you hear the

the jury's finding and the
reading of verdict in your case?

- Yes, sir
- Do you have any legal reason

or cause to tell the court why sentence
should not be imposed at this time?

You'll have to, I heard you but you
need to answer out a little bit louder

- No, sir
- All right

Uh, is there anything you wanna
say before sentence is imposed?

You have the right to, to make any
statement that you care to at this time

- No
- Are you satisfied

with the service and advice of your
attorneys through this trial?

- Yes, sir
- All right, all right

based upon the jury's verdict finding
you guilty of first degree murder

in the death of Michael Moore
you'll be sentenced to

to the Arkansas Department
of Corrections for a term of life

in the count involving the
death of Steven Branch

the jury having found you guilty
of second degree murder

you'll be sentenced to an
additional term of 20 years

and in regard to the death
of Christopher Byers

the jury having found you
guilty of second degree murder

you'll be sentenced to an
additional term of 20 years

"in the Arkansas Department of Corrections"

"That is you will receive a
life sentence plus 40 years"

It's hard to think of how you...

it would have gone any other
way but you never can tell

with a jury of 12 and they
could have found a verdict

of not guilty and, uh...

we had to sit there and tell ourselves

God grant us the serenity to accept
the things we cannot change

the courage to change the things we can

and the wisdom to know the difference

So we had to be willing
to accept what happened

and thankfully the verdict went our way

Well, there must be mixed emotions because

you have the guilty verdict but
you, you still have a loss to deal with

This doesn't change anything

- Our son was still murdered
- Christopher is dead

- Our son is still dead
- And he was tortured to death

by three murdering bastards on a ditch bank

he was 8 years old

And guilty is guilty

and I hope the little sucker
when he hits Cummings

they get his ass right off the bat

Because he deserves to be tortured

and punished for the rest of his life

for murdering three 8 year old children

Jessie, how come you kept
your head down the whole time?

Jessie, you held your head
down through most of the trial

anything you wanna say now?

Did you do it, Jessie?

Okay, get that back, get a hold of him

Did you do it, Jessie?

Do you have something to say?

How are you feeling right now?

Prison's not a safe place

Jessie, sweetie

I'mma mail him a skirt

One down, two to go

Hopefully the same thing
will happen to the next two

and we'll get the same verdict

They found my son's
testicles in a jar of alcohol

in Damien Echols' house

With his fingerprints on the jar

Now, how do you dispute that?

Some idiots started a rumor saying that

uh, they found, um...

children's sexual parts

uh, under my bed or in my house

and...

it was no body parts in my house or...

It's, it's, I think maybe the police
had something to do with it

just...

cause how, if they can make
us look bad in front of the public

then people are gonna...

kind of have their minds made up

before anything ever comes out

We wanna talk to you about
all this stuff in the paper

about a deal with Jessie

um, we, right now

we don't know what his
situation is although we think

that he is more inclined
to testify right now

than he has been at any point up to now

The Friday that Jessie was convicted

they questioned him, the
officers who took him down

inquired of him what had really happened

and apparently, Jessie
contrary to somebody

that was innocent that
would say things like, gee

I've just been convicted

and I didn't do it and
what a terrible injustice

Jessie talked all the way
down there about how he

committed the crime and specific details

Unfortunately, we need
his testimony real bad

Um, if it was a perfect world

you know, we would take what
we have on Jessie and leave it

and we'd go and get the other two

And get them and be happy, but it's not

and, uh...

we need his testimony to be sure
we get convictions on the other two

I think we're gonna negotiate
his sentence down

some in order to get him to testify

He's not gonna, you know, testify just

out of the goodness of his heart

The only way that I think that
he will be willing to testify

is if the life sentence is removed

And I do wanna say all is
not lost if he doesn't testify

Uh, but the odds are reduced significantly

Um, we've still got some evidence

What we've got besides Jessie

is we've got

a, a fiber that was found on, um...

it was found on Stevie's shirt

that matched the fiber from
Jason Baldwin's mother

which is called secondary transfer

We've got a fiber from a shirt

or a couple of fibers from a
shirt found at Echols' house

found, uh, one of them
was on like the Cub Scout

Michael's Cub Scout cap
another one maybe on the shirt

now, that matched Damien's

Fiber evidence it's, it's, in my opinion
better than hair evidence

but they can't say that it came
from that particular garment

to the exclusion of all others

Uh, we've got, uh...

the Hollingsworth clan that says they saw
Damien and Domini out on the service road

We've got some, uh...

uh, kids that say that Damien at, a

they heard him at a girls' softball
game overheard him say

that he killed the three boys

and he was gonna kill two more
before he turned himself in

- And...
- They haven't scare them off like they

- did the other ones?
- Well, no, not yet

And, we've got, uh...

a guy that was in jail with Jason

who says that Jason made some
incriminating statements to him

now, there are some things that
they will, are gonna try to do

to attack this kid's credibility

But, uh, and then we've got
the knife that was found

uh, in the lake behind Jason's house

so that's what we've got, but that's all

- basically that we've got
- And you asked what the odds

were of convicting them without Jessie

and it's, uh, you know 50, 50
might be, might be good

The only way he'll come up there
is sit down in that witness chair

and testify that they cut him a sweet deal

You take all the things that
are wrong with his statement

and then add to the, add to the recipe mix

that I'm talking now because I got
a sweet deal and I'm not gonna

I'm gonna get out in ten years

How pitiful. I may get out in ten years

well heck, who wouldn't sing?

You know what I'm saying? So he
then he, then his evidence

his statement, his whole thing looks bad

and that's, if that's their best evidence

and trust me it is, if they can't
use that statement against you

they got nothing

And this dog and pony show is over

- Good morning
- Good morning

Are the rumors false about
Jessie turning state's evidence?

Yes

- Good morning
- Is it true that Jessie's going

- to testify against Damien and Jason?
- It's false

I just left Jessie at the jail and he told
me that he was not gonna testify

he, he didn't wanna get up there and lie

Uh, the officers have been working
on him real hard, but...

he wasn't gonna listen to them and, uh...

this was his decision. It's final

But, he can always change his mind again

I, you know, he has, he's a
very confused and scared kid

and, and the officers
have scared him to death

Yeah, they have. Well, I told
him last night, I said, Jessie

if you're get up there and lie
I'm gonna be in that courtroom

And you're gonna have
to sit there and tell that lie

when you know that I'm
sitting there listening to you

when you know I know
the truth that you're lying

Damien, are you in a cult?
Are you in a cult, Damien?

Damien, are you worried about
Jessie testifying against you?

In looking at young people
involved in the occult

do you see any particular type of dress?

I have personally observed people wearing

uh, black fingernails

having their hair painted black

wearing black T-shirts

sometimes, they will tattoo themselves

Do you have an opinion as to whether or not

there are occult overtones
or evidence of occult involvement

uh, in these particular murders?

Well, the date being close to

uh, Veltane

- What is that?
- A holiday, May 1st

Also, uh, the day before
that is Walpurgnacht

Then you go into, uh, the fact that some

uh, groups of occult cult groups

or, uh, will use a full moon

Uh, in several occult books

they will talk about the
life force of the blood

usually the younger the individual

the more pure it is

The more power or the force it has

A lot of times they will take blood

and store it for other services

and other use

as well as consume it, or bathe in it

Now, the...

the items drawn on the front

- uh, what is that?
- That is a...

that is a pentagram, that
happens to be a wiccan

or white witchcraft pentagram

All right, now if you'd open
look to the front page

- Yes, sir
- All right

Now, explain what that is

- That's confusion to me
- All right

And the reason why, we
got a, a white witchcraft

uh, wiccan, pentagram

then we have upside down crosses

which comes from another type of occultism

What type of occultism do the upside down

- crosses...
- That's black witchcraft

Is it Wicca, Satanism or both?

- both
- Okay

And did you notice anything in particular

uh, about the book?

There's a chapter in here
called Rise of the Devil

and, uh...

it is underlined in red

and there. there is a
couple sentences in there

reference to uh, blood and its life force

How, how were you accepted into enrollment

at Colombia Pacific University?

I had to fill out a, uh...

and several series of papers
including all my education

background, experience

Did you ever fill out
a little flier like this?

- No, sir
- That said

call toll free for information
on how to become a doctor?

This is a mail order college, isn't it?

What classes did you take
between 1980 and 1982

to obtain your master's degree?

- What classes... I testified
- What classes?

I'm asking you what classes

- what classes did you take?
- I said...

I told you, I answered that before, none

You did not take any classes

between 1982 and 1984 when
you became a Ph.D.

What classes did you take?

- None
- None

Okay

Is it your opinion

and do you want to tell this jury

that these crimes

were motivated by occult beliefs?

Yes

"We're not trash, by no means"

My son was born in West Memphis

he was raised in West Memphis

and for the life of me I cannot understand

why people has got this bad image of him

So what if he wore a black trenchcoat

He's not the only one that does

You know, so what if he wore black T-shirts

black pants

Johnny Cash wears black, doesn't he?

Well, I wear black, Michelle wears black

- Um, Domini wears black
- I wear black

It's we're all just
partial to black, I guess

I like black myself

And I'm by no means no
devil worshipper, nor is he

He was going to school, he wanted
to go to school to be a priest

He was faithful in the church

and he looked into a little bit of Wicca

but he, he never went to it

and I think if people looked into what

to what Wicca is, they would
understand it a little better

The only thing wiccans
do is worship the earth

People probably think that
I'm in Satanism because

usually what people don't
understand they try to destroy

or ridicule

try to make it look bad or wrong

West Memphis is pretty much like

sick as Salem, right now

Because everything that happens there
every crime no matter what it is

it's blamed an Satanism

You've been previously sworn

- Yes
- Yes, sir. That's correct

Please state your name for the court

Damien Wayne Echols

Why did you change your name?

I was very involved in the Catholic church

And we were going over different names

of the saints, St. Michael's
was where I went to church at

And we heard about this

uh, guy from the Hawaiian, uh
Hawaiian Islands

um, Father Damien

that took care of lepers

until he finally caught the
disease his self and died

All right, was that the reason you
chose Damien as your first name?

- Yes, it is
- Okay, did the choosing of the name

Damien have anything to do
with any type of horror movies

Satanism, cultism, any of that nature?

- Nothing whatsoever
- Okay

All right, after the time period that you
were really into the Catholic religion

did you start focusing on
another particular religion?

- Wicca
- Wicca, all right

Could you explain to the ladies
and gentlemen of the jury

what, some principles
about the Wicca religion

Um...

it acknowledges a goddess
in a higher regard as a god

because people have always said
we're all God's children

and men cannot have children

Um...

it's basically like a close
involvement with nature

Is there a difference between

the Wicca religion and witchcraft?

Wicca is also called witchcraft

the word, uh, Wicca was bastardized

it originally meant wise one

Did the fact that

you like to wear black all the time

were you different in other ways as well?

Yes, I've never had
a lot of the same interests

that other people have like sports

things like that, I've never
been into anything like that

Well, did it

did it help you deal with other people

to have people kind of

standoffish and sort of back away from you?

Yeah, it would make

it was like a defense mechanism
it would make people think like

well, he's weird, I'm
not gonna go around him

so, it kept people away

The state had introduced

the book Never On A Broomstick

Are familiar with that particular book?

- Yes, I am
- All right, where did you

get that book, Damien?

At the library in Crittenden County

all the books that they were, uh

getting tired of or had
for a long time, I guess

they all had them sitting on a rack

out from that they were selling
for 10 cents each, so, I got it

All right, did you underline any
of those portions in the book?

No, that was done when I got it
I think it was because somebody

had a report to do or something
because all through the books

there's like little notes, uh...

certain dates and stuff

like from the 1600s

in the outside margin

So, was that book kind of
like a history of, of witchcraft?

- and how it's developed over the ages?
- Yes

- Yes
- Okay

Are you familiar with the
contents of that notebook?

- Yes, I am
- I noticed on the inside

of the front cover there, there appears
to be a couple of quotes there

- Yes
- Could you, uh...

read each of those to the jury and then
tell them where that came from

"Life is but a walking shadow"

"it is a tale told by an idiot"

"full of sound and
fury, signifying nothing"

That's from A Midsummer Night's Dream
by William Shakespeare, um

"Pure black looking clear"

"my work is soon done here"

"try getting back from me
that which used to be"

That is of a Metallica tape

called Injustice for all

talks about how warped
the court systems are

and stuff like that

On May the 5th

did you kill Michael Moore?

No, I did not

On May the 5th

- did you kill Stevie Branch?
- No, I did not

On May the 5th

did you kill Chris Byers?

No, I did not

Have you ever participated
in any type of human sacrifice?

No, I have not

19 year old Damien Echols
admits he stands out in a crowd

He says he loves heavy metal music

like...

Sure that little...
Practices the Wicca religion

3, 2, 1

19 year old Damien Echols
says he's. 3, 2, 1

19 year old Damien Echols
admits he stands out in a crowd

He says he likes to wear
black most of the time

practices the Wicca religion

and loves heavy metal music

but he says he's definitely not a killer

"I believe they did it"

and if they were to be
set free on the street

then they would have to
look behind their back

watch behind their back to see if Pam Hobbs

wasn't following them because...

I'm just saying this as a human, you know

I, I would, I believe
I'd try to kill them too

if they ever walked the
streets and I'm still alive

I believe I'd be stalking them

To do to them...

probably shoot them

and then cut them up

When I was at the courtroom
and Damien walked past me

I wanted to just go over
there and take my hand

and just claw down his face

Inflict any kind of pain
that I could inflict on him

I know eventually we're
gonna have to forgive him

I know that and I understand that

But when it happens in your
home and you watch your

your wife lose her mind, you know

whatever happened to her

your home is tore apart

busted up

I don't feel it's fair

right now for someone to ask me to forgive

the ones that caused it

It, It'd take some time

a long time before I could forgive them

You, you say that it's gonna take time

We don't know how much time we got

Pam, we wouldn't be able
to see Stevie again

We have to forgive in our heart

because the Lord

forgave us

He forgave us

He shedded his blood for us
He shedded his blood for them

And, he just, he just asks us to

to have a...

a, a forgiving spirit

And I refuse

to serve sin and Satan

Because I'm gonna see Stevie again

I'm gonna be with Stevie again
I'm gonna be with my mother again

I'm gonna be with her mother, your
grandmothers, both of them

I'm gonna be with all my loved ones

that have passed on and went to Heaven

If you could speak to the families

of these, of these kids
who think you did it

you know, what would you say to them?

I don't know

Jason was my best friend, we
did about everything together

It was kind of like we even
lived together most of the time

stayed at each other's houses

wore each other's clothes

It was more like we were brothers

We used to go out and
snake hunt all the time

Snakes and music were like
about our whole life really

We lis, we were like all the
time looking for new groups

that we would like or something
our favorite kind of music

were like Slayer, Metallica

Megadeth

U2

We'd do just about everything together

Now, I wanna draw your attention
back to August of last year

were you in the Creget County
Juvenile Detention Facility?

- Yes, I was
- Okay, what were you in there

- for at the time?
- Burglary

Okay, and...

when you were there

was there a Jason Baldwin in the general
detention facility at the same time?

- Yes
- Now, while you were in contact

with this Jason Baldwin

was there anything mentioned
about this involvement

in the murders of the three 8 year olds?

Yes, well, he was sitting up playing spades

and I wanted to get to
know everybody off in there

cause, I don't know what you call it, but

I just wanted to get to know

And I just straight out
asked him if he did it

he denied it. First time

Okay. Did you have an occasion again

while you were in the
detention facility to ask him

was he involved in the murders
of the three 8 year olds

Yes, I think it was like the next day

I believe it was the next day

And can you tell us what the
scenar, what was going on

what was happening
at the time that occurred?

Well, me and Jason Baldwin
were scraping up the cards

going ourselves for lunch, I said just
between me and you, I won't say a word

Uh, did you do it? And he said yes

and he went into detail about it

You said he went in more detail
what did he tell you?

He told me, uh

how he dismembered the kid

or I don't know exactly how many kids
he just said he dismembered them

he sucked the blood from the penis

and the scrotum, and
put the balls in his mouth

Now, Michael

when was it that

you came forward with this information?

I'm not really sure, I believe it
was like a couple of months later

What caused you to some forward

at that point in time, why, why

did Michael Carson no longer
wanna stay uninvolved

why didn't you come
forward in February this year?

Cause I saw the family on TV

Saw how broken hearted they were
about their children being missing

And I got a soft heart, I couldn't take it

Now, he tells you this
and then you're silent

from August

until February, is that right?

- Yes, sir
- And then the second conversation

you've ever had with this
young man in his entire life

he tells you all this stuff

- Yes, sir
- After he's had one

- conversation with you
- Yes, sir

"One day when I was up here in Jonesboro
working and the phone rings"

secretary says, you won't know who
he is but he needs to talk to you

I pick up the phone, he
says I'm Danny Williams

I'm embarrassed to tell
you what I need to tell you

He said, but I work with the...

the Juvenile Department here and
I do drug and alcohol counseling

And there's a guy named Michael Carson

who's gonna testify that Jason
confessed to him in the jail

and I know he's lying

I said, what are you talking
about? He said, well

he said, several months ago

Michael Carson was one of
the kids that I worked with

And... he and I had a conversation

where I told him that this Jason Baldwin

had been accused of killing 3 boys

and sexually mutilating them

And basically, he gave Michael Carson

the details that he
testifies to at the trial

At the time Carson says nothing

And, then he later, Carson later tells him

he says, hey, by the way
Danny I've, I'm telling the police

you know, Jason confessed to me

And so he calls me up, said, hey
no, no, no, he said, this kid's a liar

he's no good, I know he's lying

And the only reason
he's got this information

- is because I gave it to him
- The counselor of this kid

called the prosecution and told them

what a liar he was

and the prosecution still used the kid

- That's right
- and now they're trying to keep out

the fact, the background of the kid

Obviously we wanna get that information out

but the judge acts like he
may not let us use him at all

We should absolutely be able to

uh, le the jury know
that he is LSD dependent

because it does affect
his ability to recall

You know, the judge takes
us, takes all that away from us

- yeah, the kid looks pretty believable
- Not only are they

are they keeping out the background
of the kid when he testifies

so the jury doesn't have all the eggs

but now they're keeping out the counselor
who even knows about this kid

who told them the story in the first place

prior to him ever telling the police

All that goes to the credibility

I think that would've shown the jury that
he didn't have that kind heart

- that, uh, soft heart that, uh
- Yeah

- he tried to tell...
- That's right

Detective Allen, I want
to direct your attention to, uh

November 17th, 1993

were you asked to, uh...

make contact with some, uh

property owners at Lakeshore Trailer Park

and also get with the Arkansas
State Police dive team?

- Yes, sir. I was
- And, uh...

after a period of time, of

of, um...

searching, do you know whether
any items were recovered?

- Uh, yes, sir
- All right

Marked for identification
purposes is state's exhibit 77

and I ask you if you can identify that

Yes, uh, I can identify this by my

uh, 11, 17 of 93

M. Allen, that I put here

- Where did you get the knife?
- I, I got this knife

from a diver with the
with the state police

How long did this search take place?

- How long?
- Yes, sir

From my memory, I'm thinking maybe 10, 30
a.m. is about the time they got suited up

and, and started, started to look

And you quit, you quit it when?

They located the...

knife at 11, 35 a.m.

- So what, it...
- Or 11, 30, 11, 35

- About an hour. Could you...
- About an hour and a half, yeah

Are you telling this jury that this
knife is the murder weapon?

Is that what you're telling this jury?

No, sir, I'm not telling the jury that

Okay, now that we get, let me tell you that

What day were these individuals charged?

what day did you all charge Damien Echols

with this crime? Was it June the 3rd?

- Yes, sir
- And what day was it

that you were out there
searching this lake?

This was on 11, 17 of 93

November 17 of 1993

- Yes, sir
- That's all

The damn system stinks

They're playing with our lives

and there's nothing right about it

It's kind of like the Nazis, you know

they can just take somebody's word

and come in their house and take you away

And basically, that's what they did

because of what Jessie told them

Even though it had all those
inconsistencies in it

If we had money, do you think these
3 boys would've been picked up?

They found people that they
knew that didn't have money

some boys that been
in a little bit of trouble

They thought we didn't care

They were wrong

They're bad wrong

I don't believe that chil, that children

could be that cold blooded

as what happened to those boys

And state's exhibit 67-A

shows the, um...

the hogtying fashion on the
the hands were hogtied

um, to the feet, behind the
back and this is the photograph

um, showing that the shoelaces

And that injury, um...

you say is, is typical of a
of a belt injury

the belt has a little buckle
and that's what the

the buckle, that's that little one that
goes back and forth, left and right

that's the base of the, the latch

Here, this red area here

this is the, uh, the shaft of the penis

And here is where the scrotal sack and
testies should be and they're missing

So, what we have is that the, the skin

covering the penis and
the head of the penis

had been copped off
it's gone, it's not there

In layman's language, that I, I understand

with respect, his penis has
not been cut off, has it?

No, the, the skin has, has
been taken off the penis

And basically, it would take some skill

and precision to do that, wouldn't it?

- I would think so
- Okay

If this was to be done

this dissection

where the skin is cut off

that would take a very sharp
instrument, would it not?

- Um, I think it would
- Okay

- Such as a razor
- Or a sharp knife

- Or a very sharp knife
- Right

Doctor, if you were to do this

with the skill and the precision and
the knowledge that you take

how long would it take you to do that?

It would take me some time

It'd take you longer than 5 to 10 minutes

- I would think so
- And that's at, in your lab

- I would think so
- With a scalpel

- Is that correct. Now, Doctor
- That's correct

If we add it to the equation

that you were in the dark

could you, could you do this in the dark?

You, Doctor, could you do it in the dark?

It'd be difficult

Could you do this in the water?

You, Doctor, could
you do this in the water?

I think it'd be very difficult to do

If you were doing it in the dark

in the water with mosquitoes all around you

would that make it
even much more difficult?

I would think so

It would take you, it would
be a very tedious task for you

- It... It would
- A skilled pathologist

Now, isn't true, Doctor

that people have 5, about 5 pints of blood?

- A little more than that, yes
- Okay

Um, now, if I poured out 5 pints of blood

out here on the floor, it'd
make a big mess, wouldn't it?

- Yes
- And it would be

almost impossible to clean up

Well, you could do it, but...

- not very easily...
- It'd be very difficult, wouldn't it?

- It's not easy to clean blood
- Okay

Does blood soak into the ground?

- Um, yes, it does
- Okay

Doctor, with this homicide

we're talking about here today

would you agree with me that this could've
happened in one of three ways

These injuries could've
happened in the water

these injuries could've
happened on the bank

there by the side of the ditch, or it could
have happened somewhere else

Would you agree with me
those are the 3 possibilities

- of how this could've happened?
- Yes

Okay, now, with your knowledge
of the amount of blood

that was lost from not only Chris Byers

but these other boys who've had some pretty
they're gonna bleed as well, won't they?

- Oh, yes
- Okay, do you have

an opinion as to whether you
could clean up that amount of blood

at a scene in the dark

do you have an opinion as to that?

I think it'd be quite difficult to do

to have... um

injuries of this nature

without having any blood

I mean, that's, I, I would question that

- about the blood
- Okay

Unless it happened in the water
or it happened some other place

Okay. And you, again, Doctor
stated that you couldn't

you couldn't do this in the water

- Personally, I, I don't think I could
- Okay

I don't get off on hurting people

or...

inflicting pain on the
rest of the human race

or just...

causing destruction for
the purpose of destruction

I've probably been in one
or two fights in my entire life

Um...

And especially a child

Because they didn't do anything
to deserve what they got

Um...

And I believe whatever you do

to someone else, whether it's good or bad

it's eventually gonna come
back around to you

Even the person who did this
if they're not caught and punished

then something will happen in their life

where they will be punished

"People here kept telling
me not to go out with him"

Something like devil worshipper
and stuff and I met him

in Wal-Mart

and he followed me around like a puppy dog

And we just started talking and
you know, he was real sweet

not like everybody else
was making him out to be

and that night we started going out and...

that was like a month

he called me up on the telephone
at my dad's girlfriend's house

he goes, will you marry me? I'm like, what?

And he goes, will you marry me?

I said, can you repeat that one more time?

And he goes, will you
marry me? And I said, yeah

When I got pregnant, I had this big
picture painted in my mind that

you know, Damien's gonna be there and

I get to yell at him when I have the baby

And instead I was yelling at her

I miss him so much

I mean, I don't know if
he'll ever see the baby

they won't let him touch the baby

It makes me so pissed off

It's just, I just felt different
when he was born

It was...

It made me feel like

I guess just real good inside, just

to think that I gave life
to another human being

something completely separate
from me, but still part of me

I just hope that I'll be
there when he grows up

to watch him

You're familiar with a fellow
named Aleister Crowley?

- I know who he is. I know who he is
- You've heard of him? Okay

Uh, and...

he's the guy who kind of professes, he's

he's a noted author in the field
of Satanic worship, right?

I've never, I, I know who he is, but I've
never saw any of his books, personally

All right, not really much
of a follower of his?

I would've read him if I saw him

- but he just never...
- Okay

But Aleister Crowley is a guy that

based on his writings

believes in human sacrifice, doesn't he?

He also believe he was God, though, so

Okay, and...

he also had writings that indicated

that children were the best type
of human sacrifice, correct?

- Yes, sir
- Okay

But, Aleister Crowley doesn't have any
particular significance to you?

I know who he is

I've read a little bit about him but I've
never read anything by him

Let me show you

a copy of some documents
do you recognize that?

- Yes
- Okay, what is that?

Um, it, it was this paper I had on

uh, different alphabets

for like translations, where
you could write things

that nobody could read and
this was one of the forms

Oh, okay, well, where'd you have that at?

Where did, when did you do that
write those things out?

- Sometime before I was arrested, I guess
- All right

Are you sure that you hadn't done
those since you were arrested

while you've been staying in jail?

I don't know, I might have

So, what, whose names are
written on that document?

Mine, Jason's

my son's, uh, one that
says Aleister Crowley

- and...
- Just wait, wait, who?

- Aleister Crowley
- Yeah

this is a document that you've written
while you've been waiting in jail

- for trial, right?
- If you say so

Well, you wrote it
correct, that's your writing?

- Mhmm
- Okay

- You recall when you wrote it?
- Not really

What I'm gonna ask you is that
this Damien Seth Ezeriah Echols

your son, he wasn't born until after
you were placed in jail, correct?

- Yes
- Okay. So if you've got his name

listed on this document
then this document

had been generated
after he was born, right?

- Yes
- Okay, so this is something

you've written since you've
been sitting in here in jail

- waiting for trial
- Yes

And what you were doing was
writing out various names

in different type alphabets, correct?

From the way it looks here I was
practicing, trying to memorize them

Okay, and one of the names
that you picked out

to write about was this fellow named
Aleister Crowley, correct?

- Mhmm
- Is that just, just a

total coincidence you just pulled
his name out of the air?

No, it's just the same
book that I had with this

the different alphabets in it, it
also had stuff about him in it

Well, did you have the book out there
at the time you were doing this?

Mm, this was just from
what I remembered myself

where I was practicing, trying to memorize

- get it all in my head, or...
- So

so you were going over it and
working on it in your head

and at that point in time

you write all this down from memory?

- Mhmm
- The people that are listed on here

- you've got your name here, right?
- Mhmm

And then Jason Baldwin which
is your best friend, right?

And then you've got Damien Seth
Ezeriah Echols, that's your son?

- Yes, it is
- Okay, and then the only other name

on this document besides yourself

your best friend, and your son

- is Aleister Crowley, correct?
- Yes, sir

I believe this witness has requested
not to be photographed?

That's correct, your honor

Would you state your name for the jury?

- Christine Ann Bickle
- Okay

and, do like you just did and speak up
best you can, okay, Christie?

- Yeah, are you nervous?
- Yes

All right, okay

did you hear somebody say something

about the murder of the three little boys?

Yes, I heard, um, Damien Echols
say that he killed the three boys

Where were you, was he saying
that to you or what were you doing?

I was walking by with my friend

Christine, I'm Scott Davidson and I've got
a couple questions to ask you too, okay?

- Okay
- Okay

Um, first of all, uh...

do you remember what day
this was that heard this?

- No, sir
- That's the first time

- you'd ever seen him in your life?
- Yes, sir

What did he say before you say
that he said he killed those 3 boys?

- What'd he say before that?
- I don't know

- What'd he say after that?
- I don't know

And how, how close were you to him?

I wasn't close

- Did he scream it?
- I don't know

- Did he yell it?
- I don't know

- Call your next witness
- Call Jody Medford

And again, this witness was requested
not to be photographed

Jody, I want to direct
your attention to, uh...

May of 1993, after the murders
of the three little boys

Uh, did you have occasion
to be at the softball field

and, and hear a comment
in regard to the murders?

- Yes, sir
- All right

Tell the jury, uh, first
tell the jury first what you heard

He said, I killed the little boys
and before I turn myself in

I'm gonna kill to more and I already
have one of them picked out

You didn't recognize anybody
else that was with him?

Um, I saw Jason Baldwin there

Had you heard people talking
about Damien before this?

Yes, sir

Did you think...

did you think he was kind
of weird or something?

Yes, sir, cause he was dressed all in black

and his hair was jet black and long

and shaved on the side

Margaret, two teenage girls
took the stand this morning

and they said they heard Damien
Echols confess to the murders

of three 8 year old boys last May

one of the girls said she over
heard Damien Echols say

I killed the three boys and
I'm going to kill two more

I already have one picked out

Later in the afternoon when the defense
began presenting its witnesses

Damien Echols himself took the stand

He said he thought the girls were lying

and that they were
making up those statements

He also said he did not practice Satanism

and denied any involvement
in the murders of Chris Byers

Michael Moore, and Stevie Branch

Were you working at Bojangles Restaurant

on the evening of May 5th of 1993?

- Yes, sir
- Could you tell us what happened?

Well, it was about 9, 30 at night

uh, I found a black gentleman sitting in
the women's restroom on the commode

and there was blood
dripping off of his forearm

But he had mud on his feet

and he seemed to be
disarrayed when I talked to him

I called the police then

- What happened then?
- It was a female officer

for the West Memphis Police Department

and, uh, she pulled on the
light and I saw her coming

I went up to the front door
but she kept coming around

she went to the drive through window

So you did not go in the restaurant

- No, sir, I did not
- Did you ever find

- this bleeding black man?
- No, sir, I did not

Do you have a report that you
made regarding this incident?

No, sir, I did not

And you're out looking for some boys
and you're out in that area

and you hear about someone
bleeding, did that

did anything go off in
your mind thinking that

- something may be going on?
- Okay, first of all

you gotta understand
is the different area I went to

it was a different ward

I did not connect the two at all

Well... it may have been outside your ward

but distance wise between the
area where you were looking

and where, where this restaurant was
it's not a long distance, is it?

- No, sir, it's really not
- Okay

Did any officer come
out there that evening?

Not that evening

Uh, were you working on the
day of May 6th of 1993?

Yes, sir. Two detectives came out

and they took a report
as far as what I'd seen

uh, description of the gentleman

and then they took blood
scrapings off the wall

All right, detective Ridge
what is the date that you sent

the blood scrapings off to the
crime lab to be analyzed?

- They were never sent
- They were never sent?

That's correct

All right, where are the, the
blood samples at this time?

I don't know, sir, they're lost

- They're lost?
- Yes, sir, that's my mistake

I lost a piece of evidence

Most of the time he came up
with the stupid ideas

I guess I influenced him about as much
as he influenced me, I guess

Most of the time we didn't really set out
to so something in particular

we just started hanging around
and whatever happened

just usually happened

Sometimes good, sometimes bad

We were just sitting on the couch watching
TV the night we were arrested

And pigs busted in, started
running all over the house

We tried to hide in the bedroom
when the cops first came

but they wouldn't leave

We ran in the bedroom, turned the light off

- maybe they'll go away
- I know

We saw the lights go out

- And Domini turned them back on. Oh
- No, it was my sister

"Well, the interesting thing
about it is, is that, the"

the, the one knife that
we know somebody owns

is the Byers knife, we
know he owns that knife

He's got the motive
his son who he's upset with

his son was the only one mutilated

the other two weren't mutilated

He's, he's, he's got
knowledge about the area

he knows when the search is over with

He's big enough that he can carry the
boys there and throw them in

- He's a jeweler
- A jeweler

he's precise enough to have, to have
committed that mutilation

All of the pieces fit together

with somebody in a different location

killing the boys in a different location

Because there's no mosquito bites on them

So we know that after the boys were killed

and during, they weren't outside

They had to be inside cause there's
no mosquito bites on them

So that means they were carried
from a death scene some place

unconscious and brought down to the river

and they had to be killed shortly
before they brought down there

because they all died
within a short period of time

So after they were bled to death
after they were bludgeoned

and unconscious, somebody
had to take those three

take them to the scene and dump them

In order to do that, you gotta be
physically strong enough

to carry a 50 to 60 year old
unconscious kid

who's hogtied

Ja, Jason couldn't have done it

in his best day, he
couldn't carry a little baby

with those little skinny arms of his

so when we look at this whole thing

all the pieces that they
tried to put together

none of it fits with Jason

and just about all of it fits
towards a person like Byers

When did you receive that knife?

On the...

I believe it was on
the 8th, I've gone Jan...

it's hard to make this
out, January 8th, 1994

All right, and, who did you
receive this knife from?

I received it from, uh...

- you mean how did I actually receive it?
- No, who did you

receive the knife from?

I received it from, uh...

Joe and, uh, the people with HBO

- Okay
- Productions

- Okay, Bruce and the other one
- Bruce and Joe

- wherever he is. All right
- Yes

Upon receiving that knife
what did you do with it?

I saw what I thought to be some
type of substance on the knife

and, actually, I did know what it was

I in turn sent this knife to Genetic Design

When the knife was received by your firm

did you or your lab run tests
on that particular knife?

There was a small amount
of what appeared to be blood

um, that was dried or tissue

in a, a crevice on the knife where
the knife bolts when it locks

The results of the test showed us that, um

there was DNA, um, present on the knife

and that we were able to get a type, uh

using a test called HLA BQ Alpha

and Mr. Byers had the same type that was
detected form the specimen from the knife

Okay, and what was the BQ
Alpha type for Christopher Byers?

It was also the same type

So, the blood on the knife

and...

Christopher Byers' blood

and John Mark Byers' blood
all had the same type

Correct

- Judge, if I could approach the witness
- All right

Take a look at, at that knife, Doctor

And I'm gonna call that
for identification purposes

The John Mark Byers knife

Doctor, did you make the
comparison with this knife

E-6 and, and compared that
with some of the wounds

- that you found on Chris Byers?
- Yes, I did

All right, does that knife
appear to be a serrated knife?

Yes, this is a serrated knife

Do you have an opinion
if some of the wounds

that you found on Chris
Byers were consistent

with wounds which would have been caused

by that type of serrated knife?

Well, some of the wounds that have the
smaller serrated, um, patterns

um, could have been, um

inflected with a knife having
this type of, um, serration

How do you think this has gone over
so far on the Mark Byers aspect?

Obviously we thought long
and hard about mentioning

a father as a possible suspect

I hate having to do that, but
the way the circumstances are

it's just coming out whether
we really want it to or not

I mean, you know, we had suspicion
even before the knife showed up

Do you think anybody realizes
the reason for the 3 day delay

in Jessie's trial was waiting on that

the DNA test to come
back on that Byers knife?

I doubt it, and even after
the results came back

and it showed that it could be Mark's blood

as well as Chris's blood

that doesn't alleviate

the fact that he said no one had
ever cut themself on the knife

And it shouldn't have blood on it at all

Well, do you think the theory
or the argument at least that

it wasn't that the blood
was found on the blade

which could be easily wiped off
but it was back in the hinges

that you normally wouldn't think

if you were wiping off the blood you
wouldn't think the blood would be

inside the hinges and that's where
they found that particular blood

- How do we get that in? Just ask
- Well

Gitchell?

Ask Byers, I mean, we could
put Byers up on the stand

I think the jury expects to see him now

Oh, they wanna see him up there
they wanna see what he has to say

- don't you think so?
- I think so, yes

Mr. Byers, I need to ask you about

the defense exhibit number E-6

this particular folding lock
blade Kershaw knife, if I could

- approach the witness, your honor
- Yes

Take a look at that knife, please

Had that knife ever been used before?

Used for what?

Used for any purpose

I've had trimmed toenails with it

I had, uh, attempted to

trim on some venison that I had

- I...
- You attempted to

trim on some venison
when was it you attempted

to trim on some venison?

Somewhere time around
the Thanksgiving holidays

Do you recall being asked on January 26th

this is on page 3

By inspector Gitchell

"Had you ever taken that knife
hunting or used it recently?"

Do you remember being asked that
question by Inspector Gitchell?

Specifically, no, sir. He
asked me a lot of questions

All right, do you remember
giving the answer

"No, that knife had not been used at all"

"It had just been kept up"

"put in my dresser and I didn't use it"

"and the reason why was
because if the serrated edges"

Do you recall giving that answer to, uh
Inspector Gitchell on the 26th?

No, sir, I don't recall giving
him that exact answer

I'm sure his question
wouldn't have been asked

- exactly like your question was
- All right

did Gitchell tell you

"Let me explain a problem we had"

"and you need to answer this for me"

"we have found blood on this knife"

Did Gitchell ask you that question?

I don't remember if he
said there was or not

Did you tell Gitchell you had no idea

how Chris's blood could be on that knife?

Yes, sir. I would not have any idea

If his blood was on that knife, I
would not know how it got there

Did you have any idea how
human blood was on that knife?

Well, yes, I would have
an idea, I cut my thumb

All right

Is it true that you never told Inspector
Gitchell on January 26th

that you ever cut your thumb with
that particular knife, did you?

Yes, sir. Seems like during the course
of the day, I did tell him that

Okay, was that during the taped
conversation or was that after?

- I don't remember
- Okay

On the top of page 8

you recall being asked the question

"I have no idea, no idea"

"how it could have any human blood on it"

- You recall giving that answer?
- Yes, sir

Then do you recall stating

"I don't even remember
nicking myself with it"

"cutting the dinner meat or anything"

- Is that the answer you gave?
- Yes, sir

- And is that the truth?
- Uh...

at the time when he was questioning me

I didn't re, I mean, I might
not have remembered

we were getting ready
to go into trial, uh...

Did you remember on this date

cutting yourself with the venison
or not cutting yourself?

- The date that Gary questioned?
- The day that Gary questioned

- Yes, sir
- I might not have remembered it

at that time when he was questioning me

but I could've remembered it later on

in the day and talked to him about it

Okay

Earlier that afternoon, had
you given Chris a whipping?

Approximately around 5, 30

This was about 5, 30 and
was, was this with a belt?

- Yes, sir
- Okay, and approximately

how many times did you
hit him with the belt?

I spanked him 2 or 3 times

And on what part of body did you spank him?

It would've been just on his behind

Okay, was his, uh...

was he wearing his pants or did
he have to pull his pants down?

- No, he had on blue jeans
- Okay

The judge back there during the last recess

before you were recalled, says
that you have a brain tumor

you're being treated, do you wanna
talk about that? Is it true?

- It's been rumored, it's...
- Yes, I have a brain tumor

- And you're being treated for it?
- Yes, I'm being treated for it

I need to ask you one question and

and I hope you won't get angry

but has this, this even the suggestion

that you may have had something
to do with the murders

of these boys caused any problems

uh, within your, your family

or with any of the other
uh, victims' families?

- No
- they all

they all know the truth, and no

Did you have anything to
do with these boys' deaths?

No more than you did

Fogelman says you're buying a new house
is that why you're leaving West Memphis?

- I didn't say that
- Fogelman did this morning

Yeah, he said that's why you were late

- Yeah, we might try to move
- Out of West Memphis?

Well, somewhere, I mean, you would
probably wanna move, you know

Could you say where you're gonna
move? Do you wanna say...

- No
- Let me ask you a question

Mr. Sullivan, would you
wanna live in a house

that your baby died less than
three fourths of a mile from it?

- I wouldn't, no
- No, okay

That answers the question, come on

You're talking about your
whole family, though, right?

- you're not just talking about you
- You wouldn't move

and leave your wife and children
somewhere, would you?

Not if we were gonna stay together, no

Okay

I mean, some of the questions
you ask are kind of ridiculous

you know, I know you
might ask them yourself

they're kind of odd or strange or different

or however you'd like to comment on them

but some of them it seems like you
just use a little common sense

and think about what you would do
or how you would feel

some of the questions you fellows
would maybe have to ask

- Well, the only thing is, we have
- We have to ask them

to ask them because
we can't quote ourselves

- We have to...
- I know, but then a lot of times

things are printed in the paper
that people did not say

and the news media

I'm not saying which individual

says they got a confidential informer

you don't have a confidential informer

over, your confidential informer
is your imagination

- Well...
- You know, there's a lot of thing that's

printed in the paper
that people did not say

But the media has the rights
to print what they wanna print

You know, victims don't have any rights

Now that I've heard him talk

I don't, I kind of had an
idea what he was like

when he talked, but after he talked

he wasn't anything like I thought he'd be

How is he?

I see him now as more like a human being

than I did before. Now I see him
as kind of a new personality

Uh, from a defense side point

I've never been a defense attorney, but...

to put him on the witness stand

sure seemed to be an awful big gamble

and I can't understand the mindset
that puts you in the position

where you're willing to take that gamble

Especially when you follow it up

with the Mr. Bojangles accusations

it didn't make any sense

Cause it, to me, if I were on the jury

it would look like just some
something desperate

You know, they're gonna cast blame on
anybody and everybody they can

Which, and the defense didn't have the
guts to actually ask him did he do it

The song that I wrote
can relate to Metallica

The Sanitarium

Cause I feel like all those times
I was in the hospital I didn't need it

It...

It was just the police, another
way for them setting me up

when they couldn't send
me to prison or something

like, well, we'll get him out
of our way for a little while, but

Sending him somewhere else

I like Metallica because...

well, all...

hard music like that because

it like gives me an adrenaline rush

and...

makes me feel more alive

Now, during the course of...

uh, talking to Mr. Echols

did you ask him

who did he think did it and why?

In one area he says

he had an opinion for who could've done
the murders as being someone sick

and that it was some type of thrill-kill

he also stated that the penis was
a symbol of power in his religion

known as Wicca. He also stated that

the number 3 is a sacred
number in the belief

And did he tell you anything
about demonic forces?

Yes, sir, he said that all people
have a demonic force in them

and that, uh, person would have
no control over that demonic force

Mr. Echols is not the only person
that told you that the children

kids probably died of mutilation, was he?

No, sir

And, Mr. Echols, you asked him

uh, something to the effect of what types
of books did he enjoy reading?

- Yes, sir
- Okay, and...

um... and he told you

I think, is it Anton Levy and Stephen King?

- Yes, sir
- Okay

Now, in your opinion, is there
anything unusual about

those being the type of books
that Mr. Echols likes to read?

Anton LeVey is a book of Satanic
rules and involvement

Uh, Stephen King

seems to be horror movies

uh, horror books

and if you're asking if I felt that
was strange, yes, sir, I did

All right

Now, let me refer you
back to your statement

that you gave Officer Ridge

Did you tell him in that statement

that you had been a member of
a white witch group for 5 years?

- No
- Okay

I've never been a member of any group

And so if he put that in his report
you're saying that's inaccurate

- Yes, I am
- He made that up

Yes, I am

On question number 9

how do you think it would, the person feels

that did this? The answer was

"Probably makes them feel good
gives them power"

Now, I guess Officer Ridge said that, too

No, I used common sense on that

- Okay
- If someone was doing it

then they must've wanted to

and if they were doing
something they wanted to

it must've made them happy
I don't think they were doing it

because someone forced them to
or because they didn't want to

Okay, so, in your mind

the person that killed these three kids

it's common sense that killing three 8 year
olds would make you feel good?

Whoever did it, it must have

Okay, did you also tell him

that each person had a
demonic side to him?

I believe every person has
a good side and a bad side

- Yes
- Well, did you, were those your words

when you referred, when
he's got written down here

he stated that there was no control
of the demonic portion of people?

He asked me did I think there
were some people that, that

that could not control that side
I said, yes, I guess there is

It also states that Damien stated that the
younger the victim was made more innocent

and in turn more power would be
given the person doing the killing

- Right
- Okay, did you say that?

- Yes
- Okay, those are your words

- Mhmm
- Did you pick that up

when you were studying to be a Catholic?

No, I saw that on several movies, books

Question number 11, when he asked you

"How do you think they died?"

and it, the answer is
mutilation, cut up all three

"heard they were in the water drowning"

"Cut up one more than the others"

Is that again what Officer
Ridge said and you just agreed?

No, I had saw that on TV

newspapers, people talking

And...

you knew about the drowning

- Correct?
- I knew they were in the water, I

- didn't know that they drowned
- You knew that one was

- cut up more than the others
- He asked me was it possible

he said, do you think one was
hurt worse than the others

- I said, yeah I guess
- Oh, so again

that particular area's one of
those things where Officer Ridge

told you and that wasn't your response

you just responded about the
drowning and mutilation

If he didn't get the answer he liked
he would go back

- and try to get me say something else
- And it's your testimony

specifically that you weren't
the one who said

one was cut up more than the other

- No, I didn't
- It was Officer Ridge who said that

I agreed with him when he said that

Okay. And if he says something
different that's be

he'd, he'd be lying about it, right?

- you're the one telling the truth
- I wouldn't put it past him

Damien, we're getting close to the end now

How do you feel so far?

I feel good, so far, so far

to me, it looks like we've got it beat

What do you think the worst thing
for us right now has been?

The three weeks we've been over here
what has hurt you the most?

I only know of two things
that have really hurt

that one kid getting up there with Jason

- Yeah
- and, um... those girls

The Thursday's newspaper which addressed
you testifying on Wednesday

was real good. I talked
about that you did well

but Friday's regarding your Thursday
testimony wasn't as good

- What do you think?
- I think I did real good

on the first day and the second day

it didn't look as good because Davis kept
trying to trip me or something

There was one point in there
though, where he asked you

he says it looks like you're
just changing your story

to fit whatever comes up

and you said, yeah

I was just like halfway listening to him

After all I was, I was real nervous
when I first got up there

enough to keep my attention
focused and everything, but

after I was up there a few minutes
I started daydreaming

Daydreaming

Maybe they'll only halfway kill
you when they convict you

- Halfway? How'll they do that?
- Yeah

I don't know, maybe they'll start
daydreaming and forget what they're doing

Anything wrong with wearing black
in and of itself?

No

Anything wrong with heavy
metal stuff, in and of itself? No

The book he has, anything
wrong in and of itself? No

But when you look at it together

and you get, you begin to
see inside Damien Echols

You see inside that person

and you look inside there
and there's not a soul in there

My client is a teenager

and we certainly didn't
hide that fact from you

And the fact that my
client did some writing

take these back, go back and
read them, go read all these

But this in and of itself
is no evidence of murder

and even if you added all the other things

quote, trappings of occultism
according to Dr. Griffiths

that has nothing to do
with this case whatsoever

Is it a coincidence

this knife is found behind

in the lake, hidden

behind Jason Baldwin's house?

There are marks on Christopher Byers

where you got like a dash where it's a cut

a cut and an open space
a cut and an open space

And if you take this knife

you can see it leaves

a cut and an open space
a cut and an open space

Now, if you take

this knife

exhibit, defense exhibit 6

and even with the slightest pressure

it makes a straight line

Crime scene

it doesn't fit for a kid

to bleed to death

and not leave a drop behind

For all the other injuries to their faces

these other injuries gonna bleed too

And there's not a drop of blood

not a drop of blood?

Look at history

Look at hundreds of
years of religious history

There have been hundreds of people
killed in the name of religion

It is a motivating force

it gives people who want to do evil

want to commit murders, a reason
to do what they're doing

Satanic panic

Yeah, that's a scary thing

But it's a scarier thing to convict
somebody with no evidence

If you can't figure it out
if it doesn't make sense

let's call it a cult killing and
find somebody weird

Find somebody who wears black

They let one thing

go by the wayside

Is that there's nothing that links
Jason to these activities

Not one witness says

that's what he does, that's his beliefs

We don't have a writing
not a drawing, not a picture

not a person, nothing

links him to it

But that doesn't matter

doesn't matter to them because
he's sitting over there with Damien

they want you to convict him

Guilty by association is a horrible thing

Damien, do you think he looks like you?

I don't know, not really

I think he's got Domini's ears

- Can you change his diapers, Damien?
- Hopefully not

So, do you think you'll be spending more
time with your child, Damien?

Hopefully

Come on, Damien, it's time

So what's his first words
gonna be, not guilty?

Um, his first words will be capital murder

What's it feel like to be, go
through a month long trial?

accused of something you didn't do

Horrible

- are you nervous now?
- Yeah

I mean, there's nothing we can do right
now but sit around and wait but...

um, you, you got anything you wanna ask me?

Where do we go if, um

the jury comes back out
and says I'm not guilty?

Well, where do you wanna go?

- Um...
- where do you wanna go?

- Disneyland maybe, yeah
- Would you? Would you like to go

to Disneyland? Have you, have you
ever been anywhere out of...

Have you ever been on a trip at all?

- Haver Springs
- Haver Springs

Well, I tell you what, my man
I, I, it'd be a joy to take you

You'd like to go? You would, wouldn't you?

Yeah

Do understand now why we, uh

- Why we didn't want you to testify?
- Yeah

Can you see how it hurt
Damien? You, I think it did

And then see how they
talked about his witnesses

- Mhmm
- See, they don't have anything to talk

about us

They don't have anything to talk about
cause we didn't give them a chance

And, uh...

Oh, man

It's heavy

Do you think that, um...

this will change at all?

How you treat your friends?

Yeah

What do you think this would do?

What do you think this is
gonna do to you and Damien?

You and your friendship with Damien?

- Stop it, I guess, yes
- Would you stop being his friend?

I wouldn't be his enemy, but

after this, probably wouldn't
be around or nothing

You, you heard what was said about him

Do you think he could have done it?

- Isn't that what they said?
- Yeah, you think he could've

Do you think Damien could
have killed those little boys?

They made it seem like he did

- What do you think?
- I don't know

If you were on that jury, you'd have, would
you have a hard time letting him go?

Based on what you heard?

Yeah

I would, too

Would you let yourself go?

Yeah, if I was up there
I'd let myself go, yeah

That's the thing I wanted to hear

Cause you know you did good, don't you

Yeah

Did Paul surprise you, on his closing?

I think Paul should have left out
the guilt by association part

- that's not
- He came hard at that part, did he?

Mhmm

Did you have any idea he was gonna do that?

Mhmm

But I thought he'd be smart
enough to stay away from it

Hurt your feelings?

I wanted to strangle him

- Were you watching the jury?
- Mhmm

How do you pick it?

With my finger, no

Um...

Now I think it was probably about 60, 40

40 for and 60 against

Once you get out of here
you gonna buy a bear?

A whiskey

Not a beer

And I'll buy the Bojangles chicken

I'm gonna get a cigar

cut it open and dump all the tobacco out

fill it with marijuana
smoke the whole thing

I mean, we gotta get you out
of here, you gotta go to work

we need to pay my bill

Maybe get a job at a
gas station or something

Change my name to Bob Smith

All right, ladies and gentlemen
the bailiffs inform me

uh, that you've arrived at verdicts

if you, if you have, pass them to the
bailiff, please, or the sheriff and...

Thank you

The first verdict reads as follows

"We the jury find Damien Echols
guilty of capital murder"

"in the death of Stevie Branch"

"We the jury find Damien Echols
guilty of capital murder"

"in the death of Chris Byers"

"We the jury find Damien Echols
guilty of capital murder"

"in the death of Michael Moore"

"We the jury find Jason Baldwin
guilty of capital murder"

"in the death of Chris Byers"

"We the jury find Jason Baldwin
guilty of capital murder"

"in the death of Stevie Branch"

"We the jury find Jason Baldwin
guilty of capital murder"

"in the death of Michael Moore"

All of the verdicts are
signed by the foreman

And ladies and gentlemen
it's necessary at this time

that the court poll the jury
as to all six verdicts

so, when your name is called

if these six verdicts represent
your individual verdict

then answer yes as your name is called

- Juror number 1
- Yes

- Juror number 2
- Yes

- Juror number 3
- Yes

"Juror number 4"

- "Juror number 5"
- "Yes"

- "Juror number 6"
- "Yes"

- "Juror number 7"
- "Yes"

The prosecution didn't have any evidence

but they don't care

Just because somebody wears
black and has different beliefs

they're gonna convict them of something

- Poor, poor parents
- Yeah

I'm sorry for them, but...

I ain't, I ain't sorry for them

- I'm sorry for the kids
- I ain't sorry for them

I don't give a damn about the parents
but I'm sorry for the kids

I ain't even sorry...

I ain't sorry for anybody

There's no reason they're...

kill three more boys

that didn't do a damn thing

Right now I wish I was a witch

Talk about a spell on somebody
boy, I'd put a good one on

I guess Gitchell goes out with a big bang
didn't know he was fucking gonna retire

He said he was gonna retire, now
he's probably gonna run for office

I got an office for him

Mayor of hell

Far as I'm concerned
West Memphis can go to hell

West Memphis is hell

I have, uh, put my 20 years in

and, uh, hopefully this is the last case
I'll have of this magnitude

Uh, hopefully it's my last case

And, uh, I'm leaving on a high note

so there's no better way to leave than
your head up high and proud

Well, you know, I, I don't, I don't

I'm not surprised if that, that's
what you're asking

you know, I told you earlier I thought
the evidence was, was

more than sufficient to make those findings

They will kill no more babies
No more babies will they kill

Let's go

The black one...

Here you go

Let's go

- You gonna get out
- I know

- You gonna get out
- I know

Damien, did you do it?

- You're gonna fry, Damien
- How are you feeling now, Damien?

You're gonna fry, Damien

"Gonna fry"

- See you in hell, Damien
- We know you're innocent, Jason

I knew from when I was real small that

people were gonna know who I was
I always had that feeling

I just never knew how they were gonna learn

And, I kind of enjoy it
because now after if I die

people are gonna remember me forever

they're gonna talk about
me for years, people...

in West Memphis will
tell their kids stories

it, it'll be like, sort of like I'm the
West Memphis boogeyman

Little kids'll be looking under their
bed before they go to be

Damien might be under there