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I would move heaven, hell,
and anything in between
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00:00:10,660 --> 00:00:12,233
to get to you.
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00:00:12,266 --> 00:00:16,350
You wouldn't be safe anywhere
if I was mad at you.
4
00:00:16,383 --> 00:00:19,350
And that's not bull.
That's truth.
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00:00:19,383 --> 00:00:22,216
I've went up
against people.
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00:00:22,250 --> 00:00:26,660
You could pull a gun on me,
and if I'm mad at you,
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I'm coming forward.
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00:00:28,483 --> 00:00:31,366
You'd have to
shoot me to stop me,
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00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,200
and if you don't kill me,
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00:00:35,233 --> 00:00:37,383
you're stupid
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00:00:37,416 --> 00:00:41,330
because the next time
you see me--heh--
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00:00:41,660 --> 00:00:42,333
I will kill you.
13
00:00:42,366 --> 00:00:49,450
♪
14
00:00:55,483 --> 00:00:58,350
GUARD: Mr. Kuklinski
we're going to conduct
a pat search here.
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00:00:58,383 --> 00:01:00,330
Put your arm up!
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00:01:15,333 --> 00:01:17,216
INTERVIEWER: How many
people have you killed?
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Approximate guess...
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00:01:29,483 --> 00:01:32,500
approximate,
well, got to be
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00:01:32,830 --> 00:01:34,660
more than a hundred.
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00:01:37,250 --> 00:01:40,216
NARRATOR: After a lifetime
of killing for hire
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00:01:40,250 --> 00:01:42,150
Kuklinski was finally caught
22
00:01:42,183 --> 00:01:46,660
by an undercover ATF agent
wearing a hidden wire.
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00:02:02,660 --> 00:02:05,266
MAN: Richard Kuklinski is one
of the most dangerous criminals
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00:02:05,300 --> 00:02:08,383
we have ever come across
in this state.
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00:02:08,416 --> 00:02:13,660
He murdered by guns,
he murdered by strangulation,
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00:02:13,100 --> 00:02:17,830
he murdered by putting poison
on victims' food.
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00:02:17,116 --> 00:02:19,416
He did all of this
at the same time
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00:02:19,450 --> 00:02:23,216
while exhibiting
a normal placid
family existence.
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00:02:23,250 --> 00:02:26,433
His wife, his children
were uninvolved
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00:02:26,466 --> 00:02:32,200
in criminal activities,
yet we are faced with evidence,
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00:02:32,233 --> 00:02:37,166
convicting evidence
of numerous grisly murders.
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NARRATOR: In l986, the ATF
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and the New Jersey
Organized Crime Task Force
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00:02:42,150 --> 00:02:45,350
set up a road block
outside Kuklinski's home.
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00:02:45,383 --> 00:02:51,200
It took 5 men to bring down
the 6'5", 300-pound killer
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00:02:51,233 --> 00:02:54,830
and force handcuffs on him.
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00:02:54,116 --> 00:02:58,300
The Iceman's career
as a master criminal
was finally over.
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00:02:58,333 --> 00:03:01,183
♪
39
00:03:01,216 --> 00:03:05,183
Richard Kuklinski knows
he will never get out of Jail.
40
00:03:05,216 --> 00:03:08,133
With nothing left to lose,
Kuklinski reveals
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00:03:08,166 --> 00:03:12,216
new secrets about the years
he spent as a contract killer
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00:03:12,250 --> 00:03:15,116
for the Gambino
crime family
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00:03:15,150 --> 00:03:16,466
and tells what happened
in his life
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that turned him into a man
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law enforcement called
the Iceman.
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00:03:22,350 --> 00:03:27,166
♪
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I hated my father.
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If I could have, I probably
would have killed him.
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00:03:35,133 --> 00:03:37,483
Probably would have
felt good about it, too.
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00:03:40,416 --> 00:03:42,333
My father would beat me
just for the--
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00:03:42,366 --> 00:03:44,333
just if I looked at him.
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He gave me this
impersonal feeling I have
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00:03:48,166 --> 00:03:51,233
to when people die
in front of me,
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especially loudmouthed people.
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Loudmouthed people
remind me of my father.
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00:03:58,166 --> 00:04:02,150
Once a loudmouthed person
starts with me, I love it.
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00:04:02,183 --> 00:04:06,366
That's the only
excuse I need.
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00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,150
NARRATOR: One night
in a bar a loudmouth made
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00:04:09,183 --> 00:04:14,483
the mistake of insulting
the 18-year-old Kuklinski
in front of people.
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00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,350
A couple of hours later,
the Iceman saw
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00:04:17,383 --> 00:04:22,166
his chance to get even.
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00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:23,433
KUKLINSKI: I come
out of this bar,
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00:04:23,466 --> 00:04:28,450
and I see him sleeping
in his car.
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00:04:28,483 --> 00:04:30,100
I said, "I got you,
you little sucker.
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00:04:30,133 --> 00:04:33,283
"Now I got you.
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00:04:33,316 --> 00:04:35,450
I'm gonna give you a--
I'm gonna light your fire."
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00:04:35,483 --> 00:04:37,830
And I did.
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00:04:37,116 --> 00:04:40,433
I got myself a bottle,
some gasoline,
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00:04:40,466 --> 00:04:43,433
and I threw it
in the car with him.
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00:04:51,330 --> 00:04:54,660
And he was screaming
and yelling...
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00:04:54,100 --> 00:04:56,400
and burning,
and the car burned.
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00:05:00,100 --> 00:05:02,300
And I could smell him.
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00:05:02,333 --> 00:05:04,183
I walked down the block,
and I could hear him
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00:05:04,216 --> 00:05:06,183
as I turned the corner.
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00:05:06,216 --> 00:05:08,830
He was still yelling.
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00:05:12,150 --> 00:05:13,350
This was a personal thing, yes.
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00:05:13,383 --> 00:05:15,250
See, this was
a guy I disliked.
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00:05:15,283 --> 00:05:17,333
INTERVIEWER:
What did he
do to you?
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00:05:17,366 --> 00:05:19,233
He made me mad.
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00:05:19,266 --> 00:05:22,233
♪
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[Sirens]
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00:05:35,250 --> 00:05:42,660
NARRATOR: By the age of 25,
Richard Kuklinski had
no problem with murder,
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00:05:42,100 --> 00:05:45,250
but now he wanted
to get paid for it.
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00:05:45,283 --> 00:05:49,466
There was money
in contract killing.
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00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,160
To prove himself,
he auditioned
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00:05:52,500 --> 00:05:56,830
for Mafia Capo Roy DeMeo.
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00:05:56,116 --> 00:05:59,183
KUKLINSKI: He said, "Well,
I would expect you to, uh--
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00:05:59,216 --> 00:06:02,200
"if you came with me,
I'd expect you to, uh--
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00:06:02,233 --> 00:06:03,400
"if I told you
to whack somebody,
90
00:06:03,433 --> 00:06:05,466
"you'd whack him
91
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,400
without any question."
92
00:06:10,433 --> 00:06:14,216
So I says, "Well,
I could probably do that."
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00:06:14,250 --> 00:06:16,100
He says, "You probably
could do it,
94
00:06:16,133 --> 00:06:19,183
"or could you do it?
95
00:06:19,216 --> 00:06:20,333
Do you do you think
you could do it?"
96
00:06:20,366 --> 00:06:23,383
I said, "Yeah, I think
I could do it."
97
00:06:23,416 --> 00:06:27,183
So he told Freddy
to get the car.
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00:06:27,216 --> 00:06:28,466
Got the car.
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00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,300
He and I got
in the back seat,
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00:06:30,333 --> 00:06:32,333
and Freddy was driving.
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00:06:32,366 --> 00:06:34,660
We drove someplace.
102
00:06:34,100 --> 00:06:35,250
I don't know where it was.
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00:06:35,283 --> 00:06:37,216
It was someplace
in New York...
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00:06:37,250 --> 00:06:39,466
[Traffic sounds, dog barking]
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and we were sitting
there for a while.
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We got to where
we were going.
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00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,100
We were sitting there
for a while,
108
00:06:44,133 --> 00:06:47,830
and a man came
in the distance.
109
00:06:47,116 --> 00:06:51,216
He was walking his dog
it looked like.
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00:06:51,250 --> 00:06:52,483
So he said, "All right."
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"Take this guy down."
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00:06:59,266 --> 00:07:05,233
I said, "Which--what--which guy
are we talking about here?"
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00:07:05,266 --> 00:07:07,316
So he says,
"The man walking the dog."
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00:07:07,350 --> 00:07:11,660
♪
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00:07:11,100 --> 00:07:13,150
So I got out of the car,
and I started walking
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00:07:13,183 --> 00:07:16,150
towards the man,
and the man was walking his dog
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just like any regular guy.
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As he passed me,
I turned around and shot him.
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00:07:24,660 --> 00:07:26,660
[Gunshot]
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00:07:30,660 --> 00:07:31,466
Freddy and Roy pulled up
in the car,
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I got in the car,
and we drove away,
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00:07:36,300 --> 00:07:40,450
and that is how
I got involved with Roy,
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00:07:40,483 --> 00:07:45,466
with doing things like that.
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00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,660
[Dog barking]
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00:07:52,266 --> 00:07:54,333
NARRATOR: Roy DeMeo's hangout
was the Gemini Lounge
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in Brooklyn, New York.
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It was a house of horrors
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00:07:59,660 --> 00:08:02,660
where over a hundred people
were murdered, chopped up,
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00:08:02,100 --> 00:08:04,250
and disposed of
by DeMeo and his gang
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00:08:04,283 --> 00:08:09,216
of lethal contract killers.
131
00:08:09,250 --> 00:08:12,116
After his proving himself,
Kuklinski quickly became
132
00:08:12,150 --> 00:08:15,216
one of DeMeo's
favorite enforcers.
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00:08:15,250 --> 00:08:22,500
DeMeo ordered the hits,
and Kuklinski executed
them without question.
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00:08:22,830 --> 00:08:29,100
KUKLINSKI: He wanted
this guy taken care of,
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00:08:29,133 --> 00:08:33,183
but he wanted to
talk to him first.
136
00:08:33,216 --> 00:08:38,483
So, uh, when I got
to the place,
137
00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:40,400
I asked the man
for the money.
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00:08:40,433 --> 00:08:42,466
So the guy says he didn't
have it and Roy would
139
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,166
just have to wait until
he got the money to pay him,
140
00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:48,183
and that was that.
141
00:08:48,216 --> 00:08:49,316
He'd have to wait.
142
00:08:49,350 --> 00:08:51,266
So I said to the man, I said,
143
00:08:51,300 --> 00:08:53,433
"Well, you have to
then talk to him.
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00:08:53,466 --> 00:08:56,200
He wants to talk to you."
145
00:08:56,233 --> 00:08:59,166
So I dialed the phone number,
146
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,133
and he got on the phone,
147
00:09:02,166 --> 00:09:05,200
and I say, "Here.
He wants to talk to you".
148
00:09:05,233 --> 00:09:10,660
So he was talking to him,
and, uh, I guess they were
149
00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:11,483
acting like everything was
all right because he got
150
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:13,383
off the phone and he handed
me the phone back.
151
00:09:13,416 --> 00:09:15,200
He says, "See,
I told you he'd wait.
152
00:09:15,233 --> 00:09:16,433
"He's in a better frame of mind.
153
00:09:16,466 --> 00:09:19,233
Don't worry about it.
He wants to talk to you now."
154
00:09:19,266 --> 00:09:22,233
So I picked up the phone,
and he said, "Kill him."
155
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:28,283
So I shot him.
156
00:09:28,316 --> 00:09:31,116
[Gunshot]
157
00:09:31,150 --> 00:09:33,316
Hung up the phone
and walked away.
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00:09:39,483 --> 00:09:47,183
I am just a hard-working
expeditor of sorts.
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00:09:47,216 --> 00:09:50,433
I look at myself as
a person who did something
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00:09:50,466 --> 00:09:53,400
that somebody wanted done,
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and they paid me a good price.
162
00:10:00,133 --> 00:10:03,500
NARRATOR: In the early Eighties,
the Gambinos were feeling
163
00:10:03,830 --> 00:10:05,283
the heat of an intense
investigation
164
00:10:05,316 --> 00:10:09,400
which reached as high
as their boss Paul Castellano.
165
00:10:09,433 --> 00:10:12,200
As the pressure from
law enforcement grew,
166
00:10:12,233 --> 00:10:16,366
the Family began to worry
about potential witnesses.
167
00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,216
One, in particular,
presented a major problem.
168
00:10:20,250 --> 00:10:22,433
His name was Peter Calabro.
169
00:10:22,466 --> 00:10:24,350
The Family ordered a hit,
170
00:10:24,383 --> 00:10:27,250
and Kuklinski
was given the contract.
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00:10:27,283 --> 00:10:31,133
♪
172
00:10:31,166 --> 00:10:35,216
On March 14, 1980,
Kuklinski drove for hours
173
00:10:35,250 --> 00:10:39,100
on a snow-covered road
in Saddle River, New Jersey,
174
00:10:39,133 --> 00:10:43,160
waiting for a call to come
through on his walkie-talkie.
175
00:10:48,233 --> 00:10:53,333
I get a call
that they're on their way,
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00:10:53,366 --> 00:10:57,000
so now they're coming,
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00:10:57,330 --> 00:10:59,160
and it's snowing,
178
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and the roads are very bad,
179
00:11:01,660 --> 00:11:03,416
a lot of snow,
slipping and sliding,
180
00:11:03,450 --> 00:11:07,266
and I was in a van,
181
00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:11,233
so what I figured is
at the last moment--
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00:11:11,266 --> 00:11:13,000
I had a different plan,
183
00:11:13,330 --> 00:11:14,283
but at the last moment,
I decided
184
00:11:14,316 --> 00:11:19,100
"Well, I'm going to
double park this thing."
185
00:11:19,133 --> 00:11:21,160
This will give me
the edge because this
186
00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:24,660
will make him only have
one way to come by,
187
00:11:24,100 --> 00:11:28,133
and that's he has to come
right by this van.
188
00:11:28,166 --> 00:11:31,316
And I go to the back
of the van,
189
00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:35,500
and I go out the back door.
190
00:11:35,830 --> 00:11:39,350
I take the shotgun
with me of course.
191
00:11:39,383 --> 00:11:44,316
So I kneel down,
and I look under the van
192
00:11:44,350 --> 00:11:48,200
so I can see where
he's approximately at.
193
00:11:48,233 --> 00:11:52,250
And so I watch him come up
to where he's almost
in front of the van,
194
00:11:52,283 --> 00:11:53,466
and I stood up...
195
00:11:56,483 --> 00:12:01,166
and as he's going by the van...
196
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,000
I fired.
197
00:12:03,330 --> 00:12:03,483
[Gunshot]
198
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:05,250
[Glass shatters]
199
00:12:08,330 --> 00:12:11,450
I never knew the man--
you know, what he looked like
200
00:12:11,483 --> 00:12:13,250
or what his job was.
201
00:12:13,283 --> 00:12:18,216
Then I found out
the next day that he was police.
202
00:12:18,250 --> 00:12:23,250
MAN ON RADIO: Description
on the vehicle.
203
00:12:23,283 --> 00:12:27,830
KUKLINSKI: But had I been
told to do him away
204
00:12:27,116 --> 00:12:30,166
and I knew he was police,
205
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,266
I most likely would
have done it anyways.
206
00:12:32,300 --> 00:12:37,160
I don't think
I would have said no.
207
00:12:37,500 --> 00:12:39,200
NARRATOR: Kuklinski had
killed a cop,
208
00:12:39,233 --> 00:12:42,233
a cop who had gone bad,
selling information
209
00:12:42,266 --> 00:12:44,233
to the Gambinos,
210
00:12:44,266 --> 00:12:47,150
a cop who was eliminated
before he could turn
211
00:12:47,183 --> 00:12:50,466
state's witness.
212
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,483
For Kuklinski, contracts
like the Calabro murder
were strictly business.
213
00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:00,266
They gave him the money
he needed for his family.
214
00:13:00,300 --> 00:13:03,416
The Iceman was
leading a double life.
215
00:13:03,450 --> 00:13:07,830
He lived on a quiet street
in Bergen County, New Jersey,
216
00:13:07,116 --> 00:13:09,483
surrounded by neighbors
who had no idea
217
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,400
they were living next door
to a Mafia hitman.
218
00:13:13,433 --> 00:13:17,383
He was determined that no one,
not even his own family,
219
00:13:17,416 --> 00:13:22,000
would ever find out
who he really was.
220
00:13:22,330 --> 00:13:27,383
WOMAN: I never questioned him,
and you just knew don't do it.
221
00:13:27,416 --> 00:13:30,316
If he got up up at 2:00
in the morning or during dinner
222
00:13:30,350 --> 00:13:31,483
and put on his shoes
on and walked out the door,
223
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:33,150
you said, "Bye."
224
00:13:33,183 --> 00:13:35,133
You didn't say,
"Where are you going?"
225
00:13:35,166 --> 00:13:36,300
or "Why are you going?"
226
00:13:36,333 --> 00:13:42,160
and it was just understood
that that's the way it was.
227
00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:44,300
KUKLINSKI: I was the happiest
when I was with Barbara.
228
00:13:44,333 --> 00:13:46,266
I never involved her
in anything I ever did,
229
00:13:46,300 --> 00:13:49,333
never told her
anything I did.
230
00:13:49,366 --> 00:13:53,300
If I did, I probably would have
shocked the pants off her.
231
00:13:53,333 --> 00:13:55,466
She knew I had
a violent temper,
232
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,233
and I did have
a violent temper,
233
00:13:58,266 --> 00:14:03,116
but I don't think she thought
I would go as far as I did go.
234
00:14:03,150 --> 00:14:10,200
♪
235
00:14:10,233 --> 00:14:13,660
NARRATOR: Richard's time
with his family was sacred,
236
00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:16,433
and any interference
would throw him into a rage.
237
00:14:16,466 --> 00:14:19,500
It made him even more angry
if it happened
238
00:14:19,830 --> 00:14:24,660
during the holidays.
239
00:14:24,100 --> 00:14:29,400
This fella, he owed me
about $1,600,
240
00:14:29,433 --> 00:14:33,466
So here we come Christmas Eve.
241
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,400
And I go there, and he says,
"Eh, come with me.
242
00:14:35,433 --> 00:14:37,483
"We'll go out,
we'll have a good time,
243
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,383
"we'll party,
we'll meet some broads
244
00:14:40,416 --> 00:14:42,500
with this, that,
and the other thing."
245
00:14:42,830 --> 00:14:47,333
I said, "No, I got to--
I would really like the money.
246
00:14:47,366 --> 00:14:49,000
I got to buy something,"
247
00:14:49,330 --> 00:14:53,233
and, you know, he gave me a...
248
00:14:53,266 --> 00:14:58,466
a story, a bull story.
249
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,333
So I left there.
250
00:15:00,366 --> 00:15:05,100
I was a little bit upset,
got on a bus, went home.
251
00:15:05,133 --> 00:15:11,150
♪
252
00:15:11,183 --> 00:15:14,466
I was putting the toys
together for the kids,
253
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,466
and this thing was
really bugging me.
254
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,300
It was annoying me.
255
00:15:21,333 --> 00:15:24,350
It was just making my whole
disposition bad.
256
00:15:24,383 --> 00:15:29,116
Thought just occurred
to me "This is bullshit."
257
00:15:29,150 --> 00:15:32,133
NARRATOR: It was Christmas Eve
after midnight.
258
00:15:32,166 --> 00:15:34,116
His family was sleeping.
259
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:39,433
Kuklinski got in his car
and drove to New York City.
260
00:15:39,466 --> 00:15:42,250
KUKLINSKI: I went to the bar.
261
00:15:42,283 --> 00:15:44,000
They told me he just left
262
00:15:44,330 --> 00:15:46,160
and he was parked
a couple of blocks down
263
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:48,133
in the parking lot.
264
00:15:48,166 --> 00:15:53,233
The parking lot was closed,
but he was parked in there.
265
00:15:53,266 --> 00:15:55,300
I saw his car,
and his car was running,
266
00:15:55,333 --> 00:15:57,216
but it had snow on it.
267
00:16:03,250 --> 00:16:05,330
So I knocked on the door,
and he says,
268
00:16:05,660 --> 00:16:07,183
"Hey. How are you?
Glad to see you.
269
00:16:07,216 --> 00:16:08,333
Come on. Sit down."
270
00:16:08,366 --> 00:16:09,350
So I go walk
around the passenger side,
271
00:16:09,383 --> 00:16:11,433
sit down,
and I'm talking to him.
272
00:16:11,466 --> 00:16:14,450
I said, "Look.
I really need the money."
273
00:16:14,483 --> 00:16:16,216
I says, "You know,
it's not right.
274
00:16:16,250 --> 00:16:21,830
You've been you've
just been playing me
like a fool here."
275
00:16:21,116 --> 00:16:24,000
I had this pistol
in my hand,
276
00:16:24,330 --> 00:16:26,483
and he just was
annoying me to no end
277
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,416
with this babbling,
278
00:16:30,450 --> 00:16:33,100
and he was just going
on and on...
279
00:16:36,350 --> 00:16:38,660
and I fired.
280
00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:40,116
[Gunshots]
281
00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:41,316
[Car alarm blaring]
282
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:43,200
And I couldn't see
a damn thing
283
00:16:43,233 --> 00:16:48,216
because there was snow
on the windows.
284
00:16:48,250 --> 00:16:51,450
When that flash went off...
285
00:16:51,483 --> 00:16:54,116
I just had spots
before my eyes.
286
00:16:54,150 --> 00:16:57,160
My ears were ringing because
the noise inside the car
287
00:16:57,500 --> 00:16:59,383
when the gun went off.
288
00:16:59,416 --> 00:17:02,200
I couldn't hear, couldn't see.
289
00:17:05,183 --> 00:17:06,466
Then I panicked
290
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,300
because now I don't know
what's going on.
291
00:17:12,350 --> 00:17:17,233
Anyway, I caught the guy
in the temple,
292
00:17:17,266 --> 00:17:21,266
and as he moved back,
293
00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:27,216
the second shot caught him
in under the chin.
294
00:17:27,250 --> 00:17:30,330
Long about the time I could see,
295
00:17:30,660 --> 00:17:37,000
I reached in the man's pocket,
and he had a roll of money.
296
00:17:37,330 --> 00:17:40,500
I took my $1,600
off of him,
297
00:17:40,830 --> 00:17:45,500
put the rest of the money that
was his in his pocket,
298
00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:52,400
got out of the car,
and walked away.
299
00:17:52,433 --> 00:17:57,283
And that's...
300
00:17:57,316 --> 00:18:01,133
what happened one Christmas Eve
in New York City.
301
00:18:01,166 --> 00:18:08,216
♪
302
00:18:12,450 --> 00:18:16,133
NARRATOR: The Iceman had
killed by gun, by knife,
303
00:18:16,166 --> 00:18:19,350
by Molotov cocktail,
and cyanide,
304
00:18:19,383 --> 00:18:23,500
but he also liked
to experiment.
305
00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:25,330
KUKLINSKI: Crossbow--
I just popped the guy
306
00:18:25,660 --> 00:18:28,160
in the forehead with it.
307
00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:34,500
Actually it was just seeing
if it would work.
308
00:18:34,830 --> 00:18:36,133
INTERVIEWER:
What was he doing
at the time?
309
00:18:36,166 --> 00:18:37,416
Looking at me.
310
00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:39,200
Well, was he
sitting down,
311
00:18:39,233 --> 00:18:41,233
or were
you standing
over him, or--
312
00:18:41,266 --> 00:18:44,160
No. He actually bent down
to look in the car window
313
00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:48,500
like I was asking
him directions.
314
00:18:48,830 --> 00:18:50,366
I didn't know the man.
315
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:57,383
♪
316
00:18:57,416 --> 00:18:59,350
Was this
a contract murder,
317
00:18:59,383 --> 00:19:01,233
or was it something
out of anger,
318
00:19:01,266 --> 00:19:05,150
or was it
a personal thing?
319
00:19:05,183 --> 00:19:08,283
Neither.
320
00:19:08,316 --> 00:19:11,366
What was it?
321
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,366
I just wanted to see
if this thing would work.
322
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,200
You mean, you were
experimenting
on somebody?
323
00:19:17,233 --> 00:19:19,366
Right.
324
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,183
Did it work?
325
00:19:22,216 --> 00:19:25,166
It sure did.
326
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,216
It went halfway
into his head.
327
00:19:29,250 --> 00:19:31,433
NARRATOR: Kuklinski was
always looking for new ways
328
00:19:31,466 --> 00:19:35,660
to get away with murder.
329
00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:38,466
In the Eighties, a man who was
nicknamed Mr. Softee
330
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,116
teamed up with Kuklinski.
331
00:19:43,150 --> 00:19:46,330
This harmless-looking
ice cream vendor was
332
00:19:46,660 --> 00:19:49,366
in reality an army-trained
demolitions expert
333
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:54,660
who was a violent
and vicious killer.
334
00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:56,433
MAN: Mr. Softee was
an individual by the name
335
00:19:56,466 --> 00:19:59,133
of Robert Prongay.
336
00:19:59,166 --> 00:20:01,216
He used to operate
a Mr. Softee truck.
337
00:20:01,250 --> 00:20:05,830
That's why he got
the name Mr. Softee.
338
00:20:05,116 --> 00:20:07,316
He became friendly
with Kuklinski,
339
00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:09,383
very friendly with him.
340
00:20:09,416 --> 00:20:15,283
And it is our opinion
that that friendship led
341
00:20:15,316 --> 00:20:18,383
to Richard Kuklinski
learning a lot
342
00:20:18,416 --> 00:20:24,350
about killing with
different types of chemicals
343
00:20:24,383 --> 00:20:26,166
including cyanide.
344
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,450
[Children chattering]
345
00:20:30,483 --> 00:20:33,483
KUKLINSKI: He taught me
a lot basically,
346
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,500
but he was extremely crazy...
347
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,400
but he would read all kinds
of books on destruction
348
00:20:45,433 --> 00:20:51,466
and all kinds of ways to--
to destroy somebody.
349
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,316
He used to go around
in this Mr. Softee truck.
350
00:20:54,350 --> 00:20:57,433
That's how he used
to spot people and...
351
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,350
get the outlay of
the land, you know,
352
00:21:01,383 --> 00:21:03,183
where they were
and easy ways,
353
00:21:03,216 --> 00:21:06,500
and sometimes he'd do it
right from the truck.
354
00:21:06,830 --> 00:21:07,150
And he sold
ice cream?
355
00:21:07,183 --> 00:21:10,150
Yes, he did.
Sold Mr. Softee.
356
00:21:10,183 --> 00:21:11,366
He had one of those
Mr. Softee trucks--
357
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,466
Right--
Did you ever see them?
358
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,000
That's what he sold.
359
00:21:15,330 --> 00:21:16,350
And he sold
ice cream to
the little kids
360
00:21:16,383 --> 00:21:17,316
in the neighborhood?
361
00:21:17,350 --> 00:21:20,116
Yes, he did.
and that's what he did.
362
00:21:20,150 --> 00:21:22,830
He sold--he'd go
into these neighborhoods
363
00:21:22,116 --> 00:21:26,000
and sell ice cream
to the kids
364
00:21:26,330 --> 00:21:28,350
and maybe kill
one of their fathers.
365
00:21:28,383 --> 00:21:34,450
♪
366
00:21:34,483 --> 00:21:39,483
NARRATOR: On August 9, 1984,
Mr. Softee was found dead,
367
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,500
hanging out
of the driver's side seat
368
00:21:42,830 --> 00:21:45,100
in his Mr. Softee
ice cream truck.
369
00:21:45,133 --> 00:21:48,400
He had been killed by multiple
gunshot wounds to the head.
370
00:21:48,433 --> 00:21:56,000
♪
371
00:22:00,150 --> 00:22:03,400
SMITH: I think Kuklinski
killed him because he used him
372
00:22:03,433 --> 00:22:05,183
for his information,
373
00:22:05,216 --> 00:22:07,350
he used him
for his knowledge.
374
00:22:07,383 --> 00:22:09,366
He probably brought
him around,
375
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:14,500
brought him with him
on certain jobs that he did,
376
00:22:14,830 --> 00:22:18,100
and it was--it was time
for the boss to make
377
00:22:18,133 --> 00:22:22,166
the decision that he didn't
want any more loose ends.
378
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,400
He may have said something
the wrong way to Richie.
379
00:22:24,433 --> 00:22:25,400
Who knows?
380
00:22:25,433 --> 00:22:28,160
Whatever it was, Kuklinski
in my opinion,
381
00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:30,233
made the decision
to kill him.
382
00:22:30,266 --> 00:22:36,116
♪
383
00:22:36,150 --> 00:22:39,200
NARRATOR: After Prongay's
murder, Kuklinski was hired
384
00:22:39,233 --> 00:22:44,160
for a dangerous contract
no one else would touch.
385
00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:46,350
It was here in
a crowded discotheque that
386
00:22:46,383 --> 00:22:48,250
the cyanide killing techniques
387
00:22:48,283 --> 00:22:51,466
learned from
Mr. Softee paid off.
388
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,300
KUKLINSKI: I couldn't
get to this person
389
00:22:53,333 --> 00:22:56,133
because he was at a disco.
390
00:22:56,166 --> 00:23:01,166
So...I was really
in a bad way
391
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:10,830
because there was
a time schedule involved,
392
00:23:10,116 --> 00:23:16,830
and I happened to be
watching these people,
393
00:23:16,116 --> 00:23:23,160
and there was a couple
of gay people dancing
and whatever,
394
00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:25,160
and nobody was paying
them no mind whatsoever.
395
00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:27,400
They would walk in anywhere,
go anywhere
396
00:23:27,433 --> 00:23:33,433
because people basically
don't look at gay people,
397
00:23:33,466 --> 00:23:38,250
but the idea came to me,
"Yeah, try to act gay,
398
00:23:38,283 --> 00:23:42,116
"but how in the hell am
I going to get by?
399
00:23:42,150 --> 00:23:43,400
A 300-pound gay man."
400
00:23:43,433 --> 00:23:50,330
I mean, you know, that's
a little bit farfetched.
401
00:23:50,660 --> 00:23:55,400
So I went to
the extreme of farfetched.
402
00:23:55,433 --> 00:23:59,350
I got this loudest costume
you'd ever want to see on.
403
00:23:59,383 --> 00:24:03,333
I mean, I went
full-blown gay person.
404
00:24:03,366 --> 00:24:05,330
Of course, maybe now
the gay people are going to
405
00:24:05,660 --> 00:24:07,216
pissed off at me,
but I'm not saying
406
00:24:07,250 --> 00:24:09,333
anything bad about them.
407
00:24:09,366 --> 00:24:16,216
But I got this
canary yellow sweater
408
00:24:16,250 --> 00:24:18,350
and these bright pants,
409
00:24:18,383 --> 00:24:21,116
and I got these
elevated shoes,
410
00:24:21,150 --> 00:24:22,150
which I'm tall
to begin with.
411
00:24:22,183 --> 00:24:24,383
Now I got these thing--
shoes on,
412
00:24:24,416 --> 00:24:28,100
and I acted like
a full-blown gay person, I mean,
413
00:24:28,133 --> 00:24:34,300
and I got on this thing,
and I'm doing,
414
00:24:34,333 --> 00:24:37,116
this, like, dancing bit,
415
00:24:37,150 --> 00:24:39,100
and I get on to this thing,
and they got these lights.
416
00:24:39,133 --> 00:24:40,350
And I hate those lights,
by the way,
417
00:24:40,383 --> 00:24:42,233
those strobe lights.
418
00:24:42,266 --> 00:24:44,150
Man, I hate those lights.
419
00:24:44,183 --> 00:24:46,133
You can't see good
with them lights,
420
00:24:46,166 --> 00:24:48,300
and it messes up my eyes.
421
00:24:48,333 --> 00:24:52,160
So, anyway, I'm trying
to get close to this guy.
422
00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:55,116
So I'm doing this
crazy thing,
423
00:24:55,150 --> 00:24:57,000
I'm acting real swishy.
424
00:24:57,330 --> 00:24:59,350
I guess that's what
you would call it,
425
00:24:59,383 --> 00:25:05,160
and I get up close
to this guy,
426
00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:08,330
and I bump into him,
427
00:25:08,660 --> 00:25:10,316
but everybody's
bumping into everybody...
428
00:25:14,316 --> 00:25:19,300
and he had a heart attack
429
00:25:19,333 --> 00:25:25,330
because I had
a hypodermic needle.
430
00:25:25,660 --> 00:25:29,266
When I bumped into him,
I--I popped him with the needle.
431
00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:33,160
♪
432
00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:35,266
What was
in the needle?
433
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:38,300
In his case?
434
00:25:38,333 --> 00:25:40,830
Heart attack.
435
00:25:50,166 --> 00:25:51,483
NARRATOR: There was no doubt
that Richard Kuklinski
436
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,100
was a stone-cold killer,
437
00:25:54,133 --> 00:25:58,416
and most people thought
that's why he was
called the Iceman,
438
00:25:58,450 --> 00:26:01,266
but law enforcement had
another reason for pinning
439
00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:04,266
this name on him.
440
00:26:04,300 --> 00:26:06,466
They called him
the Iceman because
441
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,350
to confuse the time of death,
he would take his victims
442
00:26:10,383 --> 00:26:14,383
and put them in a freezer
for long periods of time.
443
00:26:14,416 --> 00:26:20,150
One such victim was
a man named Louis Masgay.
444
00:26:20,183 --> 00:26:23,300
He did too good a job
on this body.
445
00:26:23,333 --> 00:26:27,433
After leaving the body
in a freezer for over two years,
446
00:26:27,466 --> 00:26:32,400
He then took the body out
and dumped it where it was
447
00:26:32,433 --> 00:26:37,383
found before it had thawed out.
448
00:26:37,416 --> 00:26:40,183
So when the medical examiner
does the autopsy
449
00:26:40,216 --> 00:26:43,116
and opens the body up,
450
00:26:43,150 --> 00:26:51,266
he finds ice inside the body
on a warm summer's day.
451
00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:55,283
The medical examiner says,
"There's something wrong here.
452
00:26:55,316 --> 00:27:01,233
This guy couldn't have
died in the past few days."
453
00:27:01,266 --> 00:27:03,400
NARRATOR: After the discovery
of the half frozen body
454
00:27:03,433 --> 00:27:07,100
of Louis Masgay,
the noose began to
455
00:27:07,133 --> 00:27:11,266
tighten around Kuklinski
and his boss Roy DeMeo.
456
00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:13,433
Under pressure
from law enforcement,
457
00:27:13,466 --> 00:27:16,200
DeMeo began to act erratically,
458
00:27:16,233 --> 00:27:18,266
and the Family felt
he was about to crack
459
00:27:18,300 --> 00:27:20,450
and testify against them.
460
00:27:20,483 --> 00:27:24,150
There was no question
in their minds he had to go.
461
00:27:24,183 --> 00:27:27,216
♪
462
00:27:27,250 --> 00:27:30,233
NARRATOR: In l983,
DeMeo's body was found
463
00:27:30,266 --> 00:27:32,383
in a trunk of a car.
464
00:27:32,416 --> 00:27:37,000
He had been shot 5 times
and had been dead a week.
465
00:27:37,330 --> 00:27:42,283
There were some
who thought Kuklinski
might be responsible.
466
00:27:42,316 --> 00:27:45,366
Do you know anything
about his murder?
467
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,433
Who? DeMeo?
468
00:27:46,466 --> 00:27:48,166
Yeah.
469
00:27:50,483 --> 00:27:54,333
He outlived his usefulness,
470
00:27:54,366 --> 00:28:01,160
and he was, uh...
471
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:04,416
running the wrong way.
472
00:28:04,450 --> 00:28:08,150
Apparently everybody
thought he was gonna
run to the law.
473
00:28:16,183 --> 00:28:20,266
What did you feel
when he was killed?
474
00:28:20,300 --> 00:28:22,133
What did you feel
about it?
475
00:28:22,166 --> 00:28:26,366
I was all broken up
over it.
476
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,400
I've got a bridge for you, too,
I want to sell you.
477
00:28:29,433 --> 00:28:31,330
What? I didn't
hear you.
478
00:28:31,660 --> 00:28:32,830
I got a bridge
for you, too.
479
00:28:32,116 --> 00:28:33,166
I want to sell you
a bridge.
480
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,183
I wasn't broken up
over him.
481
00:28:35,216 --> 00:28:38,416
That was a--
my attempt at levity,
482
00:28:38,450 --> 00:28:42,450
but I thought at the time
it couldn't have happened
483
00:28:42,483 --> 00:28:44,350
to a nicer person.
484
00:28:46,133 --> 00:28:47,450
If somebody had
to die that day,
485
00:28:47,483 --> 00:28:50,166
it was a good day
for him to die.
486
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,266
♪
487
00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:56,200
NARRATOR: Over the next 3 years,
488
00:28:56,233 --> 00:28:59,316
The New Jersey Organized Crime
Task Force concentrated
489
00:28:59,350 --> 00:29:02,316
on closing in on Kuklinski.
490
00:29:02,350 --> 00:29:05,330
When Kuklinski began
to feel cornered,
491
00:29:05,660 --> 00:29:08,266
he started eliminating anyone
who could implicate him
492
00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:11,660
in his criminal activities.
493
00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:15,116
If he called you friend,
you had a problem.
494
00:29:15,150 --> 00:29:20,000
Yesterday's friend soon became
tomorrow's enemy.
495
00:29:20,330 --> 00:29:22,483
One of those friends
turned enemy was a man
496
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,350
who had been
Kuklinski's partner.
497
00:29:25,383 --> 00:29:28,400
His name was George Malliband.
498
00:29:28,433 --> 00:29:31,433
KUKLINSKI: Georgie Boy?
Yeah.
499
00:29:31,466 --> 00:29:35,383
Yeah. Liked him.
500
00:29:35,416 --> 00:29:41,200
Actually, yeah,
really liked him.
501
00:29:41,233 --> 00:29:44,830
One of the few people
I ever really liked.
502
00:29:44,116 --> 00:29:47,233
♪
503
00:29:47,266 --> 00:29:50,333
NARRATOR: But Malliband had
developed some bad habits.
504
00:29:50,366 --> 00:29:53,150
He racked up thousands
of dollars in gambling debts
505
00:29:53,183 --> 00:29:55,116
to loan sharks.
506
00:29:55,150 --> 00:29:58,000
Kuklinski had vouched
for him and told Malliband
507
00:29:58,330 --> 00:30:00,500
he'd better pay up.
508
00:30:00,830 --> 00:30:03,466
Then Malliband made
a fatal mistake.
509
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,000
He told Kuklinski that
if he didn't back off
510
00:30:07,330 --> 00:30:10,216
he would hurt his family.
511
00:30:10,250 --> 00:30:13,116
KUKLINSKI: Which really
struck a nerve with me.
512
00:30:13,150 --> 00:30:15,333
It upset me,
but I was trying
513
00:30:15,366 --> 00:30:21,100
not to get upset
with it at that time
514
00:30:21,133 --> 00:30:22,483
because I figured
he was just nervous maybe
515
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:29,466
and was just spouting off,
but apparently he wasn't
516
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,266
NARRATOR: But the Iceman
couldn't forget that
517
00:30:31,300 --> 00:30:33,316
Malliband had threatened
his family,
518
00:30:33,350 --> 00:30:37,450
and several weeks later,
he began to plan his murder.
519
00:30:37,483 --> 00:30:42,400
♪
520
00:30:42,433 --> 00:30:45,330
KUKLINSKI: We got in the van,
521
00:30:45,660 --> 00:30:50,216
and I said, "George,
were you really sincere
522
00:30:50,250 --> 00:30:55,466
"with the fact that
you would hurt my family
523
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,483
to get back at me?"
524
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:04,183
And he said, "That's
the only way I could get you--
525
00:31:04,216 --> 00:31:07,166
"I could get over on you,
get you to do
526
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,266
what I wanted you to do
is to hurt your family."
527
00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:13,200
I said, "But that's
a stupid thing to say, George."
528
00:31:13,233 --> 00:31:16,250
I said, "Knowing how badly--
how sincere I am
529
00:31:16,283 --> 00:31:18,100
about my family."
530
00:31:18,133 --> 00:31:19,416
I said, "For you to say
something like that,
531
00:31:19,450 --> 00:31:23,116
you must realize
you're gonna make me mad."
532
00:31:23,150 --> 00:31:24,316
He says, "No, you
won't be mad."
533
00:31:24,350 --> 00:31:29,330
He says, "Because you'd be
afraid that something
534
00:31:29,660 --> 00:31:30,383
would happen to your family."
535
00:31:30,416 --> 00:31:34,100
I said "Well, you're
very wrong about that George."
536
00:31:34,133 --> 00:31:37,660
I said, "Because I'm gonna
put a stop to that.
537
00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:38,233
"As a matter of fact,
I'm gonna put a stop
538
00:31:38,266 --> 00:31:41,166
to that right now."
539
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,183
And I shot him 5 times.
540
00:31:43,216 --> 00:31:44,366
[Gunshots]
541
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,830
I could see them entering
because he was right here.
542
00:31:49,116 --> 00:31:50,333
We're sitting in the van.
543
00:31:50,366 --> 00:31:53,383
I'm in the driver's seat,
Georgie Boy was over here...
544
00:31:55,150 --> 00:31:59,283
in the next seat, which was,
you know, just like that.
545
00:31:59,316 --> 00:32:01,250
And I went, "Pop, pop, pop,"
546
00:32:01,283 --> 00:32:06,100
and I went "pop, pop."
547
00:32:06,133 --> 00:32:08,366
And I could see
the material moving
548
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:13,000
on his jacket
as these things--
549
00:32:13,330 --> 00:32:17,283
actually, they made
little marks on it,
on the jacket.
550
00:32:17,316 --> 00:32:21,283
I guess they were burn marks
or something.
551
00:32:21,316 --> 00:32:23,166
NARRATOR: Kuklinski's
favorite way of disposing
552
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,000
of bodies was putting them
in barrels,
553
00:32:26,330 --> 00:32:29,283
but with the 6-foot,
300-hundred pound
George Malliband,
554
00:32:29,316 --> 00:32:32,000
it wasn't easy.
555
00:32:32,330 --> 00:32:34,450
KUKLINSKI: So when I got him in,
I had a problem with one leg.
556
00:32:36,366 --> 00:32:38,660
I had a hell
of a problem with the leg,
557
00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:39,316
I'll tell you.
558
00:32:39,350 --> 00:32:42,433
No matter what I did, I couldn't
get that leg in there.
559
00:32:45,416 --> 00:32:47,416
So I had to cut it.
560
00:32:50,333 --> 00:32:52,433
Put the top on.
561
00:32:55,150 --> 00:32:58,483
And I drove down
to Jersey City,
562
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,416
where I dumped him.
563
00:33:06,233 --> 00:33:08,350
NARRATOR: The next morning,
a passerby noticed
564
00:33:08,383 --> 00:33:12,266
a dented steel drum
turned over on its side.
565
00:33:12,300 --> 00:33:14,416
When he walked over
to get a closer look,
566
00:33:14,450 --> 00:33:20,166
he saw a pair of legs,
one of them bloody and hacked.
567
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,216
The body was
George Malliband.
568
00:33:23,250 --> 00:33:29,330
Police knew Kuklinski
was the last person
to see him alive.
569
00:33:31,233 --> 00:33:34,830
The New Jersey
Organized Crime Task Force
570
00:33:34,116 --> 00:33:36,133
now had just one mission,
571
00:33:36,166 --> 00:33:41,160
to gather the evidence
to arrest and convict
Richard Kuklinski.
572
00:33:45,660 --> 00:33:47,216
CARROLL: The final method
that was used was, in fact,
573
00:33:47,250 --> 00:33:50,116
the introduction
of an undercover federal agent,
574
00:33:50,150 --> 00:33:52,200
Dominick Polifrone,
575
00:33:52,233 --> 00:33:54,433
who was able to win
Mr. Kuklinski's confidence
576
00:33:54,466 --> 00:33:57,183
and was able to record
conversations where he
577
00:33:57,216 --> 00:34:00,150
detailed his participation
in these murders.
578
00:34:00,183 --> 00:34:02,250
I portrayed myself
as a hitman,
579
00:34:02,283 --> 00:34:06,333
told him I worked for
the wiseguys downtown New York
580
00:34:06,366 --> 00:34:09,433
and my brother was
a goodfella downtown,
581
00:34:09,466 --> 00:34:16,200
and I went by the name
of Dominick Michael Provenzano.
582
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,250
NARRATOR: The tapes made
by the undercover agent
583
00:34:34,283 --> 00:34:36,366
had nailed Richard Kuklinski,
584
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:41,133
and his career as
a contract killer
was finally over.
585
00:34:41,166 --> 00:34:45,100
At his trial, his family
learned for the first time
586
00:34:45,133 --> 00:34:48,116
that they really didn't
know the Richard Kuklinski
587
00:34:48,150 --> 00:34:52,183
who was also capable
of being the deadly Iceman.
588
00:34:52,216 --> 00:34:56,183
♪
589
00:34:56,216 --> 00:34:59,200
Richard Kuklinski is now
serving multiple life sentences
590
00:34:59,233 --> 00:35:03,366
in New Jersey State
Maximum Security Prison.
591
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,350
Ironically his younger
brother Joey is also
592
00:35:06,383 --> 00:35:09,433
serving a life sentence
in the same prison.
593
00:35:13,266 --> 00:35:15,450
When Joey was 25,
he was convicted
594
00:35:15,483 --> 00:35:19,266
of raping and murdering
a 12-year-old girl.
595
00:35:19,300 --> 00:35:22,316
After he strangled the girl,
he dragged her body
596
00:35:22,350 --> 00:35:25,466
over two adjoining rooftops
and threw her
597
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,350
and her pet dog
to the street 40 feet below.
598
00:35:39,183 --> 00:35:40,450
Do do you want
to talk about
your brother, or--
599
00:35:40,483 --> 00:35:42,100
What do you
want to talk about?
600
00:35:42,133 --> 00:35:43,366
There's nothing
to talk about.
601
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,160
Because we
never brought up
your brother
602
00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:46,416
in the first show,
and--
603
00:35:46,450 --> 00:35:48,330
You want to talk
about him,
604
00:35:48,660 --> 00:35:49,366
we'll talk about him.
605
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:54,333
He's been here
for 25, 27 years,
something like that.
606
00:35:54,366 --> 00:35:57,500
He's been here
a long time.
607
00:35:57,830 --> 00:36:00,100
25 years, I think.
608
00:36:00,133 --> 00:36:01,400
Don't hold me
to that exactly,
609
00:36:01,433 --> 00:36:05,330
but I'm pretty sure
that's c--pretty close.
610
00:36:05,660 --> 00:36:06,433
And he's here
for murder.
611
00:36:06,466 --> 00:36:10,500
Yes.
612
00:36:10,830 --> 00:36:13,333
What happened--
how old was
he when--
613
00:36:13,366 --> 00:36:16,383
He was a young man.
614
00:36:16,416 --> 00:36:21,316
He was in his
20s, I believe.
615
00:36:21,350 --> 00:36:24,233
And what went wrong
in his case?
616
00:36:24,266 --> 00:36:26,450
Do you think he was
a product, also,
617
00:36:26,483 --> 00:36:28,300
of what you
went through?
618
00:36:28,333 --> 00:36:31,416
We come
from the same father.
619
00:36:31,450 --> 00:36:33,300
Do you see him,
Richard?
620
00:36:33,333 --> 00:36:35,116
I pass him.
621
00:36:35,150 --> 00:36:36,250
What do you say,
just "Hello"
622
00:36:36,283 --> 00:36:37,400
and keep on
walking?
623
00:36:37,433 --> 00:36:39,200
"How you doing, Joe?"
624
00:36:39,233 --> 00:36:41,660
"How you?"
625
00:36:41,100 --> 00:36:44,150
"Take care."
626
00:36:44,183 --> 00:36:47,160
That's it?
627
00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:51,160
I told you I have--
do all short stories.
628
00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:55,160
That's being overfriendly
with my brother.
629
00:36:55,500 --> 00:36:57,216
Does he try
to talk to you?
630
00:36:57,250 --> 00:36:59,166
He says less to me,
as a matter of fact.
631
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,366
Sometimes he doesn't
even answer me, I don't think,
632
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,183
thinking about it.
633
00:37:05,433 --> 00:37:08,466
That's too bad.
634
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,250
Depends on how
you look at it.
635
00:37:10,283 --> 00:37:15,500
♪
636
00:37:15,830 --> 00:37:18,233
If by some miracle,
Richard, you got
637
00:37:18,266 --> 00:37:21,660
out of here
tomorrow,
638
00:37:21,100 --> 00:37:22,160
let's say...
639
00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:23,250
Hmm.
640
00:37:23,283 --> 00:37:24,316
for the sake
of argument,
641
00:37:24,350 --> 00:37:28,660
what would you do?
642
00:37:28,100 --> 00:37:29,150
Would you go back
to that life,
643
00:37:29,183 --> 00:37:30,266
or would you
do something else?
644
00:37:30,300 --> 00:37:33,200
No. It's passed me now.
645
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,333
I have 10 years
without violence.
646
00:37:38,366 --> 00:37:41,400
I don't really look forward
to violence anymore.
647
00:37:44,183 --> 00:37:47,200
I don't even think I could
play the game anymore.
648
00:37:47,233 --> 00:37:51,000
Probably get myself shot
the first time out.
649
00:37:51,330 --> 00:37:52,216
I wouldn't do it anyway.
650
00:37:52,250 --> 00:37:56,500
I'd look to retire
in a nice, quiet
place someplace.
651
00:37:56,830 --> 00:37:59,266
no banging doors,
no people yelling
and screaming.
652
00:38:02,300 --> 00:38:07,300
Somewhere if I wanted to
think I could just sit
there and think.
653
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,483
Is there anything
you wouldn't do,
Richard,
654
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,300
for a contract
murder?
655
00:38:19,333 --> 00:38:20,300
Yes.
656
00:38:20,333 --> 00:38:21,433
What wouldn't
you do?
657
00:38:21,466 --> 00:38:23,433
I wouldn't kill a child...
658
00:38:27,350 --> 00:38:30,100
and most likely
wouldn't kill a woman.
659
00:38:40,830 --> 00:38:43,133
Did you ever
let anyone go?
660
00:38:43,166 --> 00:38:47,233
For whatever reason
did you ever decide
to let someone go?
661
00:38:47,266 --> 00:38:49,116
Yes.
662
00:38:53,233 --> 00:38:54,400
But then I thought
better of the idea
663
00:38:54,433 --> 00:38:56,383
and shot him anyway.
664
00:39:00,150 --> 00:39:03,433
Did you ever murder
anyone you liked?
665
00:39:03,466 --> 00:39:06,830
All my friends are dead.
666
00:39:06,116 --> 00:39:10,316
At one point, in time,
I'm sure I liked them.
667
00:39:10,350 --> 00:39:13,116
But not
at the moment
of killing them.
668
00:39:13,150 --> 00:39:15,166
I might have even
liked them then.
669
00:39:21,183 --> 00:39:25,416
Honor among thieves--
there's no such thing.
670
00:39:25,450 --> 00:39:28,116
You see, because
I was put in prison
671
00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:30,416
by a man I knew 30 years,
672
00:39:30,450 --> 00:39:32,266
and I liked him.
673
00:39:32,300 --> 00:39:34,166
Big mistake.
674
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,150
I had one friend too many.
675
00:39:36,183 --> 00:39:39,233
I am now serving multi
life sentences because
676
00:39:39,266 --> 00:39:43,000
of my one friend,
677
00:39:43,330 --> 00:39:45,150
and he's the only
friend I didn't kill.
678
00:39:45,183 --> 00:39:52,233
♪
679
00:40:55,250 --> 00:40:56,216
Hoffa?
680
00:40:56,250 --> 00:40:58,133
Yeah.
681
00:40:58,166 --> 00:41:00,266
I don't know anything
about Hoff, Jimmy Hoffa.
682
00:41:00,300 --> 00:41:03,383
Or the scuttlebutt,
let's say--let's
put it that way.
683
00:41:03,416 --> 00:41:08,160
Scuttlebutt?
He's in a Japanese car.
684
00:41:08,500 --> 00:41:12,150
Supposedly, he was picked up,
put in a drum,
685
00:41:12,183 --> 00:41:14,166
put in the trunk of a car,
686
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,283
put in a crusher
with other cars,
687
00:41:16,316 --> 00:41:21,450
crushed,
and shipped overseas.
688
00:41:21,483 --> 00:41:23,366
That's what I heard.
689
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,830
Don't know.
690
00:41:25,116 --> 00:41:26,333
I think
the last time
I asked you that
691
00:41:26,366 --> 00:41:30,330
you thought he was
a Toyota.
692
00:41:30,660 --> 00:41:31,383
Could be a Toyota.
693
00:41:31,416 --> 00:41:34,133
Some little
Japanese car.
694
00:41:34,166 --> 00:41:41,233
♪
695
00:42:33,450 --> 00:42:36,433
ANNOUNCER:
Now log on to HBO.com
696
00:42:36,466 --> 00:42:38,333
and find out more
about this documentary
697
00:42:38,366 --> 00:42:41,483
and others in the award-winning
"America Undercover" series.
698
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,433
Informative, interactive,
intriguing--
699
00:42:44,466 --> 00:42:48,483
"America Undercover"
at HBO.com.
49717
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