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the U.S Marine Corps so uh is
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so
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let me present you Mr Kaufman and
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overall thank you very much for being
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here with us today
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um
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yeah thanks for having me on uh on your
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program
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all right so um yeah let's go straight
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into Carson to to begin with um
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so what do you think about Russian
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retreat was just like something
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inevitable for them maybe in a few
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months because of the attrition of the
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fighting or this was just a measure in
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order to do to say okay we are going to
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secure the whole front we are going to
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say bye to her son and and that's what
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we are trying to do what do you think
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yeah so I think the Russian military was
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on the wrong end of a battle defined by
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attrition
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I thought that the main reason they
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withdrews they were being pressed out
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and they could have maintained the
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position there longer but the reality is
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that there were no prospects in staying
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in Kirsten on the right Bank of the
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river first the Russian military had no
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chance of a counter-offensive there
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right so any territory they lost they
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were going to essentially uh be steadily
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pressed towards the river and towards
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the main Crossing Point second they were
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down to a set of fairies and one main
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crossing point at novocac of kadam
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third I think the bigger issue was the
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need for them to conserve ammunition
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they used up too much artillery
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ammunition over the spring and summer
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and they had to consolidate the front
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and elect a more defensive strategy this
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looked to be sir vegan's argument based
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on anecdotal evidence of what we know uh
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was his position
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and that's why they were drew that said
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as you probably know they withdrew with
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the bulk of their Force intact and their
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equipment and they stripped a lot of the
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equipment they couldn't actually take
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with them and it was a pretty organized
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cohesive operation a retrograde
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operation that looked very different
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than what happened on archive or even in
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Limon
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so uh the bulk of the forces that they
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had and they use mobilized Personnel
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that they deployed to cover their
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retreat
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we're able to get across the river and
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now you see some of them being
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redeployed to fight at Bachman uh I will
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tell you that your son of a solves
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interesting battle
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um
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you know I won't say that I especially
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spent the tremendous amount of time
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there but I did get to go there in
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October myself so I was uh
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uh let's say uh near relatively near the
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front lines but
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um it it was a grinding fight okay
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Ukraine had basically uh
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two stages where the pushed Russian
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Force was pretty hard at the beginning
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around uh August 29th 30th and then
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again a month later beginning of October
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but the losses were significant on both
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sides and despite everything that's been
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said about the efficacy of High Mark
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strikes the truth is that after four
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months the Russian military still could
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Supply artillery to the front and still
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could withdraw from across the river
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so it it's a very effective system but
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it's also a very valuable lesson for
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folks who believe in silver bullets in
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individual Technologies rather than the
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aggregate effect of these capabilities
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and how forces are able to employ them
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all right so um generally speaking
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um we could say or I I think that's your
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opinion right that there wasn't an
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immediate threat to the logistics of
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Carson it wasn't like you know all
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Crossings are getting bombed and all of
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that just that it was a decision in
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order to reinforce the whole front
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that's it well no I mean it was growing
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I think Russian military saw the writing
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on the wall that over time that position
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was going to become untenable
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and uh there was no point to stand
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yourself because it was just a question
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of time right Ukraine could have kept
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that offensive going well into the
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winter and then into the spring
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and I think from the Russian point of
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view if they were going to withdraw
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eventually what was the point
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right because they could save a lot on
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front of space
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then fix their Force density to to
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territory ratio and redeploy on other
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parts of the front so I think that
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actually was withdrawing from Crystal
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was probably one of the smarter things
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they could have done from a strategy
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perspective yeah absolutely
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um now what about the the quality of the
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mobility mobilized forces on both armies
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do you think that any of them has a
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higher quality than the other are they
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more or less equivalent what do you
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think on that
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well I mean one of the questions first
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question was how would we know right so
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right mobilization usually starts off
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as a pretty chaotic and haphazard
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process because militaries are not set
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up to take in such large numbers of
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personnel even when they say they are
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they aren't right
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um
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you know on the Ukrainian side they
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enacted mobilization at the outside of
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the war they quickly found that they
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actually didn't have a lot of the
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equipment and the weapons that they
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would need to equip the force and
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mobilization was Ukraine's principal
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strategy for dealing with a large-scale
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Russia invasion
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mobilization provide the Manpower they
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needed they created additional units
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battalions with them and they raised
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their Force Readiness by a substantial
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amount they too were in practice a
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partial mobilization Army
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uh it it had demonstrable effects
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several months into the war right
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mobilized Personnel allowed Ukraine to
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hold the line in the spring and in the
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summer although they too had morale
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issues they do had they also had a lot
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of problems with folks that had very
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little training that were deployed and
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that weren't very interoperable with
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other parts of the force in general
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um
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the unintangeables you know I think it's
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pretty obvious that the Ukrainian
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military's favor okay but good luck
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measuring those you know why we call
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them intangible it's because you can't
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measure them if you can measure them
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then they would be tangibles right so
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analytically you know it's it's a bit of
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a salt licking ice cream cone to try to
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try to imagine metrics for intangibles
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but
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um on the Russian side mobilization
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started off quite poorly but that's
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because they were not mobilizing in the
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spring when they still had the force and
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the Personnel to train it a lot of the
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equipment right and I would have been
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much more dangerous if they done in
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April they were mobilizing into the
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Windsor when they already spent a lot of
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the personnel and the equipment they had
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to equip an additional part of the force
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and they weren't deploying them in for
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an offensive they were essentially
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deploying them as a desperate measure to
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stabilize the line all right so the
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first people they threw up the line were
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just there to try to hold it
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but you know after after now we can say
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uh
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around maybe two months or so or a bit
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less than that you can see that it's a
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phase process that the initial Personnel
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they deployed did actually help them
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stabilize the line that probably they're
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going to conduct a rotation but the rest
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of the units are in training and maybe
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about half are in Russia half are in
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Ukraine and it's going to continue on as
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a phase process and you won't be able to
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really judge its effects for probably
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another three months from my point of
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view February is a good time to look to
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see what Russia can or can't get out of
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mobilization
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people are are a bit overly eager to
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make uh claims in the space but for
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Ukraine mobilization showed its real
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effects more towards May June and for
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Russia I don't think you're going to see
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enough to have a judgments about what
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judgment mobilization will yield for
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them until later this winter you know
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the quality I think Ukraine overall is
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better off and Ukraine has the benefit
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of having access to different Western
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training programs although they're quite
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small you know there's a program in the
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UK it's only for a couple of weeks and
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it's fairly anemic in terms of its
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throughput rate it's it's an effort that
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will scale but if you think about the
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size of the Ukrainian military and if
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you think about how many additional
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units they create of immobilized
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Personnel relative to the number of
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people being trained it'll take quite a
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bit of time uh what else can I say in
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this on this matter all right and what
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about the industrial part of the
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mobilization do you think that Russian
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industry can get enough resources in
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order to increase their artillery
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Immunity on production you know when uh
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to a strategic effects or do you think
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that they will have to you know to um to
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trust in different countries in order to
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get enough ammunition to deal with such
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thing
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so those are two separate questions so
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first can I get the resources to make I
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guess your questions about artillery I
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mean probably their main choke point
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will be on the chemical side right not
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in the actual making of artillery shells
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part and they've definitely mobilized
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ships across the defense I've gone to
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double and triple shifts so they think
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they have the components right you see
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them making deliveries throughout the
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course of the year
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uh
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I don't know the actual state of the
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industry in the choke points I'll be
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very honest I've seen a bunch of folks
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try to examine the space but it's not
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very easy
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are they going to need to try to get
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ammunition from countries like North
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Korea yeah most definitely nobody's
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going to make enough ammunition for
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their use rate the Russian military is a
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fires-based military it's going to
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consume ammunition at an incredible rate
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even if they try to conserve it okay
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nobody can make ammunition to sustain a
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conventional War at this intensity of
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fighting it's a problem by the way it's
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a problem on the the western side too
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just to be clear the
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Ukraine consumption of artillery
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ammunition relative to what is being
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produced on a monthly basis in the
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countries that are supplying it is an
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issue
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it's a medium to long-term issue it's
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not an issue website for tomorrow but it
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is most definitely a problem
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so yeah the the long story is short is
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no Russia's not going to be able to
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produce enough artillery ammunition to
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sustain the war at this rate
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and they're going to have to try to
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depend on external sources they can get
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to them or they have to change things up
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write that and now that um you know
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Ukraine as they are suffering with all
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of these attacks on their electricity
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Network and all of that as they will try
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to counter attack let's say uh attack
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inside Russia attack their sometimes
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their uh their own electric Network all
292
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of that kind of things
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do you think that uh to a certain extent
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um let's say oh sorry sorry I forget the
295
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question sorry
296
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um
297
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um okay so let's go into military
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culture because it was something I was
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00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:54,600
really curious about it and do you think
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in the end that
301
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um in comparison to strategy doctoring
302
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equipment uh it is very important or
303
00:12:00,060 --> 00:12:05,579
what you think on it how you evaluate it
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yeah I think military culture is very
305
00:12:05,579 --> 00:12:07,920
important
306
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um
307
00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:12,120
you know culture often will supersede
308
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Doctrine at the end of the day Doctrine
309
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,880
can be whatever you like and Doctrine
310
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can be really brilliant theoretically
311
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:19,800
right but then when you try to turn into
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practice you find that aspects of your
313
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:24,000
military culture are are such that the
314
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,620
doctrine doesn't work in practice right
315
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,540
so for example
316
00:12:25,620 --> 00:12:29,220
challenges the Russian military has is
317
00:12:27,540 --> 00:12:32,820
doctrinally they're fairly rigid
318
00:12:29,220 --> 00:12:35,519
tactically and they put together uh
319
00:12:32,820 --> 00:12:37,160
Maneuvers through kind of individual
320
00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:40,019
battle drills and are pieced together
321
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,820
the Tactical level formations don't have
322
00:12:40,019 --> 00:12:43,260
much of a planning staff right so the
323
00:12:41,820 --> 00:12:45,060
commander picks the course of action
324
00:12:43,260 --> 00:12:47,339
then they sort out logistics and they're
325
00:12:45,060 --> 00:12:49,260
very heavily driven and the challenge in
326
00:12:47,339 --> 00:12:51,839
that system is it's a garbage in garbage
327
00:12:49,260 --> 00:12:54,899
out system if that is bad then the
328
00:12:51,839 --> 00:12:59,420
planning's very bad and the Maneuvers
329
00:12:54,899 --> 00:12:59,420
selected is isn't going to work okay
330
00:12:59,519 --> 00:13:03,060
um what that means in practice is you
331
00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:04,800
know about mdp sort of military
332
00:13:03,060 --> 00:13:05,779
decision-making process what that means
333
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,420
in practice
334
00:13:05,779 --> 00:13:11,040
is that uh doctrinally it makes sense
335
00:13:09,420 --> 00:13:13,079
given the quality of the force they have
336
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,760
because a lot of the thinking is much
337
00:13:13,079 --> 00:13:16,440
more when it comes to operational art
338
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,300
and higher echelons
339
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,100
but tactical level they have big issues
340
00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:22,560
because the military culture in Russia
341
00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:25,320
is one where people
342
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:28,380
um falsify what happened all the time
343
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:31,019
and so they write that you know 100 of
344
00:13:28,380 --> 00:13:33,060
the helicopters took off and struck you
345
00:13:31,019 --> 00:13:35,459
know 70 percent of targets but that's
346
00:13:33,060 --> 00:13:37,260
not what happened at all and then
347
00:13:35,459 --> 00:13:39,380
commanders are operating on that base
348
00:13:37,260 --> 00:13:43,459
and you can see in this war
349
00:13:39,380 --> 00:13:47,459
that you know a an attack is conducted
350
00:13:43,459 --> 00:13:49,139
by a set of units who believe that they
351
00:13:47,459 --> 00:13:51,000
are following up an initial offensive
352
00:13:49,139 --> 00:13:53,639
and that offensive had already broken
353
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,200
through or degraded defensive lines but
354
00:13:53,639 --> 00:13:56,760
that didn't happen basically everybody
355
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,139
reports success when it didn't take
356
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,399
place so it's a system of weak
357
00:13:58,139 --> 00:14:01,680
accountability and law of falsification
358
00:13:59,399 --> 00:14:03,240
and it has nothing to do with corruption
359
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:06,380
um it has a lot to do with just military
360
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:09,959
culture so that's one area where you see
361
00:14:06,380 --> 00:14:12,300
uh Russian military culture
362
00:14:09,959 --> 00:14:14,279
um not meshing well at all with
363
00:14:12,300 --> 00:14:16,860
doctrinally how they like to do things
364
00:14:14,279 --> 00:14:18,540
uh particularly tactical level
365
00:14:16,860 --> 00:14:20,220
um that shows a much more interesting
366
00:14:18,540 --> 00:14:22,980
conversation writ large if you want to
367
00:14:20,220 --> 00:14:25,260
get into it we can get into it but I I
368
00:14:22,980 --> 00:14:27,660
actually would say that
369
00:14:25,260 --> 00:14:30,779
um in some respects Russia and Ukraine
370
00:14:27,660 --> 00:14:33,899
Doctrine are not that dissimilar
371
00:14:30,779 --> 00:14:36,180
yeah that's the the other point um how
372
00:14:33,899 --> 00:14:39,120
different you maybe you don't know this
373
00:14:36,180 --> 00:14:40,740
to such extent but
374
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:43,320
um how different is the Ukrainian
375
00:14:40,740 --> 00:14:45,180
military culture from Russian
376
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,380
yeah I mean that's where that's where a
377
00:14:45,180 --> 00:14:50,100
lot of differences
378
00:14:46,380 --> 00:14:52,860
probably line on Military culture uh
379
00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:55,820
Ukraine's uh I would say much more of a
380
00:14:52,860 --> 00:14:59,279
ground up decision-making military where
381
00:14:55,820 --> 00:15:01,260
there is preference given to veterans in
382
00:14:59,279 --> 00:15:04,560
decision making and it's a much more
383
00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:06,779
democratic uh process in um in military
384
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,339
planning and suicide views
385
00:15:06,779 --> 00:15:11,220
also Ukraine's different military
386
00:15:08,339 --> 00:15:13,320
culture in that uh they they care much
387
00:15:11,220 --> 00:15:15,240
more about the force in the Russian
388
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,980
military you can see officers have a
389
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:20,760
fairly callous approach to how they use
390
00:15:16,980 --> 00:15:23,459
troops they have a very sort of early to
391
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:26,040
mid uh 20th century mentality in how
392
00:15:23,459 --> 00:15:27,660
they treat the force and how they uh
393
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,100
deal with personality they don't care
394
00:15:27,660 --> 00:15:30,899
about they don't care about the
395
00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:32,760
individual Warfighter whereas ukrainians
396
00:15:30,899 --> 00:15:34,380
do you see the way Ukraine tries to
397
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,120
fight is actually focused on forced
398
00:15:34,380 --> 00:15:37,620
preservation and not throwing away
399
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,420
people
400
00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:40,740
um I think I saw from my point of
401
00:15:39,420 --> 00:15:42,480
anecdotally I just saw a big difference
402
00:15:40,740 --> 00:15:46,079
in accountability
403
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,880
on the gram side and that's a aspect of
404
00:15:46,079 --> 00:15:49,740
culture it's not something you can
405
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,600
easily train sorry anybody who's
406
00:15:49,740 --> 00:15:52,860
listening to this on HR who thinks that
407
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:56,160
annual
408
00:15:52,860 --> 00:15:58,500
um uh trainings via PowerPoint Institute
409
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,880
a military culture of accountability I
410
00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:02,220
don't think that's the case all right
411
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:04,139
it's the kind of thing that uh stems
412
00:16:02,220 --> 00:16:05,699
from leadership and by the way another
413
00:16:04,139 --> 00:16:07,920
thing that people think is true but
414
00:16:05,699 --> 00:16:10,079
really isn't that this big difference is
415
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:13,199
because Ukraine has an NCO Court not
416
00:16:10,079 --> 00:16:15,120
really I mean Ukraine doesn't have a
417
00:16:13,199 --> 00:16:17,339
western style NCO core actually how
418
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,620
would it have a western style nco4 if
419
00:16:17,339 --> 00:16:23,279
like half the military is mobilized okay
420
00:16:19,620 --> 00:16:26,160
to begin with as of since February okay
421
00:16:23,279 --> 00:16:27,959
where did all these ncos suck all these
422
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,579
uncles come from you don't see that
423
00:16:27,959 --> 00:16:32,519
actually in Ukrainian military so much
424
00:16:29,579 --> 00:16:35,100
like you see uh
425
00:16:32,519 --> 00:16:36,720
soldiers independent of rank but with
426
00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:40,680
veterans say
427
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:43,440
right uh take on initiative take on
428
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:45,060
leadership and yes Ukraine has on CEOs
429
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,459
but a lot of that is kind of validation
430
00:16:45,060 --> 00:16:50,040
and projecting I think in in Western
431
00:16:47,459 --> 00:16:51,720
military is because it's a strong desire
432
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,820
to believe that Russians are doing
433
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,259
poorly because they're not like us and
434
00:16:53,820 --> 00:16:57,120
ukrainians are doing well because they
435
00:16:55,259 --> 00:17:00,000
are like us that's not really true
436
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,560
actually in terms of force structure and
437
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,779
Legacy inheritance from the Soviet Union
438
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,819
the Ukraine military is a lot closer to
439
00:17:03,779 --> 00:17:09,240
the Russian military than people think
440
00:17:05,819 --> 00:17:12,720
yeah absolutely agree on that by the way
441
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:14,459
um now I don't want to steal you so much
442
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,040
time so I will ask you just the last
443
00:17:14,459 --> 00:17:19,380
question and which is I'm speaking about
444
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:21,720
the Strategic culture do you think that
445
00:17:19,380 --> 00:17:25,559
the Russians really are willing to
446
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:28,079
sustain a high intensity two three four
447
00:17:25,559 --> 00:17:30,900
years war or they are just trying to
448
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:33,540
okay let's stabilize this maybe launch a
449
00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:35,880
small offensive in dombas whatever but
450
00:17:33,540 --> 00:17:38,660
let's end the war as soon as possible
451
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,660
what do you think
452
00:17:39,539 --> 00:17:43,320
so
453
00:17:40,980 --> 00:17:44,940
my last name says that this war is going
454
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,679
to go on that the Russian leadership is
455
00:17:44,940 --> 00:17:48,320
committed to it Wars are fundamentally
456
00:17:46,679 --> 00:17:51,720
contests of Wills
457
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:53,580
and uh they have the world to keep it
458
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,380
going their main problem is that they
459
00:17:53,580 --> 00:17:57,059
have a mismatch between military means
460
00:17:55,380 --> 00:18:00,299
and political aims they don't have the
461
00:17:57,059 --> 00:18:02,880
military means and
462
00:18:00,299 --> 00:18:04,919
even though they've downsized kind of I
463
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,020
think minimal War aims are still well
464
00:18:04,919 --> 00:18:10,500
beyond what what the military can
465
00:18:07,020 --> 00:18:12,919
actually achieve I think that if if
466
00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:15,480
there's any variation on that strategy
467
00:18:12,919 --> 00:18:16,799
it's that Russian leadership at some
468
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,020
point would be willing to pursue a
469
00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:20,940
ceasefire but that's only so they can
470
00:18:19,020 --> 00:18:23,400
reconstitute the force and then launch
471
00:18:20,940 --> 00:18:24,840
uh continuation War that's one of the
472
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,820
likelier trajectory actually of this
473
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:29,160
conflict is that however it ends there
474
00:18:26,820 --> 00:18:31,080
probably will be a follow-on war if
475
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:34,020
neither side achieves what they think
476
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:35,700
are are at least their minimal War aims
477
00:18:34,020 --> 00:18:37,980
yeah I think the main challenge in the
478
00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:39,360
Russian military's side is it has to do
479
00:18:37,980 --> 00:18:41,720
with sustainability material
480
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:45,059
availability and sustainability right
481
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:46,740
Manpower quantitatively they fix to an
482
00:18:45,059 --> 00:18:47,640
extent qualitatively they still have big
483
00:18:46,740 --> 00:18:49,200
issues
484
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,760
artillery ammunition is going to be the
485
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,740
probably the biggest constraint on the
486
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:56,520
Russian military moving forward
487
00:18:52,740 --> 00:18:58,559
and secondarily equipment and the
488
00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,620
political Lucia may have
489
00:18:58,559 --> 00:19:03,539
the the world to continue the war right
490
00:19:01,620 --> 00:19:05,100
but they're going to consistently be
491
00:19:03,539 --> 00:19:07,440
running up against
492
00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:10,740
actual material constraints and the fact
493
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:12,780
that the the military uh has fairly
494
00:19:10,740 --> 00:19:15,059
consistently underperformed although in
495
00:19:12,780 --> 00:19:16,679
the last month month and a half you've
496
00:19:15,059 --> 00:19:18,299
probably seen
497
00:19:16,679 --> 00:19:20,039
the songs that build the revision of
498
00:19:18,299 --> 00:19:22,080
Russian strategy and more competent
499
00:19:20,039 --> 00:19:24,000
leadership come into effect on their
500
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,760
survey can and more importantly a
501
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,860
stronger linkage between the military
502
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,179
and the political leadership's
503
00:19:28,860 --> 00:19:31,980
understanding of what's actually
504
00:19:30,179 --> 00:19:34,320
happening in the war because previous to
505
00:19:31,980 --> 00:19:36,960
that it seemed clear to me
506
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,520
that Putin had very little idea of the
507
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,640
reality on the ground and he was being
508
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:44,220
fed uh a very Rosy picture where the war
509
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:46,919
was going and Russian prospects for
510
00:19:44,220 --> 00:19:48,299
success and after Hurricane was no
511
00:19:46,919 --> 00:19:50,940
longer possible to feed him this
512
00:19:48,299 --> 00:19:52,679
information which by the way goes back
513
00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:56,760
to the earlier part of our conversation
514
00:19:52,679 --> 00:19:59,220
about military culture right if if
515
00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:01,260
company commanders make things up and
516
00:19:59,220 --> 00:20:03,720
Battalion commanders made things up that
517
00:20:01,260 --> 00:20:05,820
the end at the end of that string
518
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,340
they're the chief of general staff in a
519
00:20:05,820 --> 00:20:10,620
meeting who is saying things about
520
00:20:08,340 --> 00:20:13,620
what's happening in the war and Russian
521
00:20:10,620 --> 00:20:16,380
prospects in the war to Putin and he too
522
00:20:13,620 --> 00:20:18,179
is dissembling right and you can see how
523
00:20:16,380 --> 00:20:19,919
this carries through
524
00:20:18,179 --> 00:20:21,539
like can you see the you can see the
525
00:20:19,919 --> 00:20:24,140
coherency of the system and the problem
526
00:20:21,539 --> 00:20:27,600
of that military culture
527
00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:30,600
all right so so that's all
528
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:33,000
um thank you really Matt for for with us
529
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,620
with for being with us uh here today
530
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,539
sorry for because I was a little bit
531
00:20:34,620 --> 00:20:39,480
nervous to be fair and yeah that's it
532
00:20:36,539 --> 00:20:41,039
thank you very much really I'm sorry uh
533
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:44,160
thanks for having me on your program and
534
00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:45,780
enjoy uh your weekend and uh but let's
535
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,419
find an opportunity to chat again maybe
536
00:20:45,780 --> 00:20:50,960
at some point down why oh I would love
537
00:20:48,419 --> 00:20:53,960
to so thank you very much
538
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,960
foreign
539
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,280
bye everyone
540
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:05,179
oh
541
00:21:02,580 --> 00:21:05,179
I will
40000
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