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604 Iberville:
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Located at the intersection of Chartres and Iberville Streets,
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a couple blocks away from the famed Canal Street in New Orleans, Louisiana.
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With records dating back to the mid-1800's,
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this three-story building has had a rich history.
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It once housed a cotton mill
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and has been the home to countless cocktail lounges.
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Typically, a bar could be found on the first floor,
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while the third floor consisted of rental rooms
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that were more than likely used as flop houses for sailors and other visitors.
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But in 1970, the second floor was vacant
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and an unlikely fellow by the name of Phil Esteve
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would make a decision that would inadvertently impact the history of New Orleans.
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Phil, after high school,
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decided to go into the seminary,
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and that didn't work out for him.
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After that he went into the Navy,
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and of course, that didn't work out for him,
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so he come back home to New Orleans.
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He asked a friend,
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"well, I'm torn between opening a gay bar or opening a gift shop",
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and his friend said,
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"well, if I only had a dollar,
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I would buy a beer before I would buy a knick-knack".
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The Up Stairs Lounge opened on Halloween of 1970.
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It's a very much a party atmosphere. They just had fun.
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The Up Stairs Lounge was kind of out of the way by French Quarter standards.
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It's out on the very edge of the Quarter.
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It's not near the brightly lit, tourist friendly part of Bourbon Street.
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It wasn't necessarily a rough part of the Quarter,
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but, at that time,
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Hustler's Row was right around the corner.
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But, I never regarded it as being dangerous or anything.
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The Up Stairs Lounge -
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You could go up a flight of stairs that turned to the left,
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and there was like a big, metal fire door there.
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Initially, it was full...
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Well, it still is, full of drainage pipes from the water
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that was run up into the building long after the building was constructed.
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Phil and Buddy draped all that with colorful fabric
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so that the entrance would be inviting.
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The Up Stairs bar was divided into three sections,
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with like a big, archway.
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In the physical bar -
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the bar stools, were in the first section,
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and the second section had tables and chairs
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and a little dance floor,
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and in the third section, it was like a completely different world.
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It was a small theater, with a stage and little chairs set up.
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The walls were covered with red flocked wallpaper
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and the carpet was a reddish-orange color
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and the bar counter was a similar color.
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So it was very bright.
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There were also some beefcake posters that were very famous in the 1970s:
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You know, Burt Reynolds lying on his bearskin rug
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and Mark Spitz and that itty bitty swimsuit with seven gold medals.
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The first time I went there and opened the door, I closed it.
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I was scared. [laughs]
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I couldn't go in it.
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Every time, when you open the door,
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everybody looks like that at ya...
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and then you close the door...
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So I got up enough courage and I went in
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and you know, had a beer and that,
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everything was fine.
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I felt really safe, and I would go often,
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especially Sunday to Beer Busts.
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It was the most fun part of all.
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It was more like a social club you might say, than a bar.
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It wasn't so much of a cruising or
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pickup or hustler bar or anything like that.
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I'm not gonna sit here and say that nothing...
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ever happened along those lines on occasion,
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but mostly, it was just a gathering place of friends.
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I used to take my little, black, shaggy haired dog up there.
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His name was Jocko.
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He'd sit up on a bar stool
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and have a little bowl of milk and vodka.
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[Laughter]
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and wander around.
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But we just said he was a "bar hound".
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[Laughter]
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I met my first lover, Reginald Adams, at the Up Stairs.
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He was the first black man that I ever knew,
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because people were very segregated back then.
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And there were only a few bars
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that didn't care -
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that would let blacks and whites in.
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The Up Stairs was one of them.
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I was sitting at the bar and he offered to buy me a drink.
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The bartender came over,
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it was Buddy Rasmussen, he was also the bar manager,
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he asked me,
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you know,
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if you want to meet this guy, he wants to send you a drink.
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I said "sure".
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It was love at first sight.
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And the more I got to know him, the more I loved him.
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It was much more difficult to be interracial in the South
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in the 1970s.
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Because we actually had that discussion.
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We sat down when we decided to move in together,
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because he said, "well, you know you're gonna lose some of your friends".
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But we decided we wanted to be together,
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so we were gonna be together.
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And it didn't really matter who accepted us or who didn't.
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I figured if they were friends of mine and they were true friends,
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they would accept him and he said the same thing.
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We felt at home at the Up Stairs Lounge.
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Phil Esteve, the owner and Buddy Rasmussen,
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his head bartender and general manager -
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They went out of their way to create events that would bring people in.
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There was always something fun going on there.
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There was a stage where
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dramatic performances would take place.
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They were written as melodramas,
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but most of the casting was cross-gender.
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Men were playing the women's roles.
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Sometimes women would play men's roles.
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And instead of being called "melodramas",
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they were nicknamed "Nellydramas".
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And that was in a room where instead of regular theater seating,
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people would sit around these these big spools that were used to hold cable.
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Buddy would put bowls of popcorn on the table
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and when the villain appeared on stage,
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people would "boo" and throw popcorn at the villain.
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I was usually cast as "Little Nellie".
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[Laughter] Hmm... hated that.
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I wanted to be the villain at one time
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and Bettye said, "you are not villain character". [Laughter]
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You know, I said "okay, so I'm 'Little Nellie' character?"
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[Laughter]
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You know so,
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yeah, I was always "Little Nell".
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One time, I played the part as a stand-in for the lead character in one of them.
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I played the part of the "Infamous Memphis Queen",
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which was really fun.
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That was a real fun role, you know?
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But we had a good time.
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There was a baby grand piano.
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A young man named David Stuart Gary would play there regularly.
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He was nicknamed "Piano Dave".
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And when he was playing, there would be sing-alongs.
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At the end of the beer bust,
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everybody would hold hands and get in a circle
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and sing, "United We Stand, Divided We Fall".
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It was just a song that everybody was singing by the "Brotherhood of Man".
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You know, and they played the piano,
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and we'd be singing to it and just kind of holding arms together,
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and we'd kind of sway.
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It was, I guess, it was kind of spiritual in a way.
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In a sense that we were united together
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in a brother/sisterhood bond.
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[Song: "United We Stand"]
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The third room would soon serve yet another purpose.
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The Metropolitan Community Church was founded by the Reverend Troy Perry
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in Los Angeles, California in 1968.
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The MCC would be a Christian Church
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serving the often neglected religious, spiritual and social needs
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of the gay community.
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His vision spread quickly.
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In the early 1970s,
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congregations were forming around the country,
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including in New Orleans.
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The Elysian Fields parish of MCC New Orleans held its first meeting in April of 1971
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under the guidance of Reverend David Solomon,
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co-coordinator of the New Orleans chapter
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of the Gay Liberation Front.
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After struggling to find a consistent location to worship,
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Reverend Solomon announced that the Lord
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directed him to a theater in the back of the bar in the French Quarter,
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and the owners had made it available on Sunday evenings, free of charge.
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The first worship service was held in the third room at the Up Stairs Lounge on May 19, 1971.
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Services continued under the leadership of Deacon Bill Larson
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with the help of Associate Pastor Mitch Mitchell.
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Bill was older than me.
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I remember that. [Laughter]
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I remember too, that Bill was a Lay Methodist Minister
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when he came in to MCC
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and in those days,
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honey, if you told me you had a called to minister,
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I laid hands on you right there.
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There was no committee like there is today in the Metropolitan Community Church.
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I wanted so bad to have people who had a burden like I did to help out.
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He was just a very concerning person.
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He was very devoted.
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He was devoted to the church.
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He was devoted to the members of the church.
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He was a very loving person.
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Mitch and his partner were like two kids,
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they way I remember them. [Laughter]
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They could be very...
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what word do I want to use?
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They were so funny sometimes,
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but bordering on not knowing when not to be kids,
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if that that makes any sense.
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Mitch was
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just
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very much in love with Horace,
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and Horace vice-versa.
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Mitch thought this is an act!
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"I can't believe he loves me like he does."
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Well, he really did!
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He loved him!
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Mitch wanted to be involved with the MCC.
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He became an Associate Pastor.
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To me, MCC,
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Metropolitan Community Church, was my surrogate family.
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I didn't feel comfortable with my own family
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because I was gay.
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I didn't feel comfortable in my jobs.
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So the social circle was MCC.
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Now, being there at the Up Stairs Lounge in the third room,
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some people thought it would be good to
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bring more congregants.
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It was bigger and spacious and
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the social hour that followed afterward
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and then the Beer Bust that followed after that
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was conducive to meeting other people
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and feeling, you know, very safe in that environment.
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But the outlook from the gay community outside the bar
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who didn't go there was,
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"a gay church in a gay bar?"
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It didn't lend credibility to the word "church".
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So a congregation,
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other people in the group,
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wanted the congregation to move to another building
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to have the church service.
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Bill Larson and
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Reverend Bill Richardson of St. George's Episcopal Church,
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especially Reverend Bill Richardson,
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thought it would be more appropriate
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to lend the use of the chapel to MCC.
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It was a wonderful thing to be gifted with that use.
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It helped with the congregation
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putting no money toward the rent
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to save money for a rent to own or lease to own building.
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The congregation quickly accrued enough money in its treasury to lease a place of their own.
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Located in the Garden District,
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the double Creole Cottage housed the sanctuary on one side
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and Deacon Bill Larson's rectory on the other.
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And while worship services were no longer held at the Up Stairs,
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many congregates continued the tradition of attending the Sunday Beer Busts after church.
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This proved no different on Sunday, June 24, 1973.
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It was the usual Beer Bust.
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Everybody's laughin' and cuttin' up and talkin'.
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You know, and dancin' and stuff like that.
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And then they had a piano player in there.
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There was a buzzer at the bottom of the stairs.
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Cab drivers or delivery drivers would buzz
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when they needed to alert people upstairs that they were there.
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The buzzer kept going off.
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Whether it was somebody down on the street trying to warn them
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or if it was a short in the wire,
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No one really knows what happened,
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but the buzzer kept going off.
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Buddy Rasmussen turned to Luther Boggs who was sitting closest to the door and said
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"Luther, would you go see who in the hell is ringing that buzzer!"
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So Luther opened the door.
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The fire burst into the bar!
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All of a sudden, you heard people screamin'.
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From laughter to screamin'.
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I could see the glow of the flames
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and all of a sudden,
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the flames,
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that curtain that was hanging at the top,
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it just kind of like shot straight across that,
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and oddly enough,
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it was the indoor-outdoor carpeting and
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the fire actually lifted that carpeting up.
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It was like floating up with the,
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I think the flames were just going under it.
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Flames were just swirling all around me in the air,
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and the fire just ripped across the Up Stairs Lounge.
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It was pandemonium instantly,
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when the fire came into the bar.
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It was the end of a Beer Bust and many had had lots to drink
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and then the windows were right there.
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They thought that would be a quick exit,
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so they just ran to the windows.
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They had a big window here,
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and I think, it was three windows. Wasn't it three?
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Okay, one there, one there, one there.
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And you saw people run that way and I went to the middle one and
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miraculously got through the bars,
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and then hit the ground.
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People, you know,
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blocked my fall, and I woke up in a hospital.
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Jean Gosnell was sitting near the front of the bar near Luther Boggs,
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when Luther went to open the door and the fire came in, and
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obviously everyone near the fire escape wanted to get out the fire escape quickly.
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It was taking too long to open it,
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so Luther ended up pushing Jean through the glass -
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Broke a couple of her teeth.
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She spit them out. They went out onto the fire escape.
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Luther said, "I'm burning Jean! Help me! Help me!"
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And she just tried to beat out some of the flames.
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She ended up being severely burned as well.
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Luther jumped down into the street,
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Jean ran up the fire escape to the third floor
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where she waited 'til the fire department rescued her.
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Someone ran into the bathroom, which was right by the fire escape
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and warned his friend to come out of the bar and
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that guy came out of the bathroom, saw the fire right there,
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jumped through the fire escape into the street.
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He looked up to see his friend.
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His friend never made it out.
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Two bodies were found in the bathroom.
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Another body was found right in front of the fire escape.
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So that fire escape was cut off within seconds.
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Buddy Rasmussen had been in the Fire Division in the Air Force
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and as soon as he saw the fire,
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he went down the length of the bar,
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telling everyone, "Follow me, follow me, follow me, follow me".
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He ended up leading about 25 people out through the second room to the fire door in the third room.
19:24.100 --> 19:28.260
[Ricky Everett] Buddy is the one who grabbed me and took us out that door.
19:28.260 --> 19:30.880
He saved my life.
19:30.880 --> 19:34.220
I had a friend visiting me from Atlanta
19:34.220 --> 19:36.460
and when we were going out,
19:36.460 --> 19:39.360
he was coming out behind me,
19:39.360 --> 19:41.020
and I turned to look back behind me,
19:41.020 --> 19:42.720
and he wasn't there.
19:42.720 --> 19:44.660
He had somehow gotten in front of me
19:44.660 --> 19:47.080
and I didn't realize it.
19:47.080 --> 19:48.740
And so I turned back,
19:48.740 --> 19:52.600
and at the same time, Mitch Mitchell was going back in the door,
19:52.600 --> 19:55.860
going looking for his lover, Horace.
19:55.860 --> 19:58.440
Horace Broussard.
19:58.440 --> 20:03.940
So Mitch and I went back in at the same time
20:03.940 --> 20:06.920
and he just like disappeared off into the flames.
20:06.920 --> 20:08.820
20:08.820 --> 20:12.100
I would die for my partner.
20:12.100 --> 20:16.120
And when they told me about how Mitch got out,
20:16.120 --> 20:19.340
I know how he felt.
20:19.340 --> 20:22.520
I would have probably done the same thing -
20:22.520 --> 20:26.300
tried to get back in and get my partner out of that inferno.
20:26.300 --> 20:27.680
[Sobbing]
20:27.680 --> 20:31.120
And he rushed back into the building.
20:31.120 --> 20:33.260
20:33.260 --> 20:38.460
And the FBI found their bones together,
20:38.460 --> 20:41.460
laying on top of each other.
20:41.460 --> 20:45.960
[choking back tears]
20:45.960 --> 20:50.840
The only thing that saved me out of it was,
20:50.840 --> 20:52.300
20:52.300 --> 20:53.140
It was,
20:53.140 --> 20:53.980
it was a miracle.
20:53.980 --> 20:56.040
God did a miracle there.
20:56.040 --> 21:00.100
It was like a blanket covered me from the head to toe
21:00.100 --> 21:02.800
and it wasn't like an imaginary thing.
21:02.800 --> 21:05.560
I could feel it physically on my body.
21:05.560 --> 21:08.360
And at the same time,
21:08.360 --> 21:10.560
I knew it was God
21:10.560 --> 21:12.060
and so I turned
21:12.060 --> 21:14.960
and I couldn't see the door, where it was,
21:14.960 --> 21:16.020
that I came into,
21:16.020 --> 21:17.840
because of all the flames.
21:17.840 --> 21:22.360
But I knew the direction, so I just went on out.
21:22.360 --> 21:24.860
I got out on the rooftop and
21:24.860 --> 21:28.960
there wasn't anybody there, except one man,
21:28.960 --> 21:31.500
and he told me very gently,
21:31.500 --> 21:34.300
to step down through the window there -
21:34.300 --> 21:38.600
that it was an apartment and just follow the stairs down to the street.
21:38.600 --> 21:41.900
And I walked at Bourbon Street to Iberville and took a left
21:41.900 --> 21:43.140
and as I took a left,
21:43.140 --> 21:46.580
I could see all the commotion
21:46.580 --> 21:47.700
going up and down the street.
21:47.700 --> 21:50.040
There were fire engines still coming and
21:50.040 --> 21:53.360
there was a crowd assembling on the corner.
21:53.360 --> 21:55.580
As I got up to the crowd on the corner,
21:55.580 --> 21:58.480
there was a policeman there saying, "you can't go any further than that".
21:58.480 --> 21:59.780
I said, "I've got to get back in there."
21:59.780 --> 22:02.840
I said "my lover is waiting for me. He's upstairs in the bar."
22:02.840 --> 22:04.560
He said, "that's the place that's on fire"!
22:04.560 --> 22:06.100
It was,
22:06.100 --> 22:08.100
a shock and
22:08.100 --> 22:10.560
22:10.560 --> 22:12.580
in my mind, it was like,
22:12.580 --> 22:14.400
"What's going on? What's going on?"
22:14.400 --> 22:15.740
I was questioning myself.
22:15.740 --> 22:17.900
Was I really seeing what I was seeing?
22:17.900 --> 22:20.660
Because it was hard for me to believe that.
22:20.660 --> 22:23.220
I wasn't gone that long.
22:23.220 --> 22:26.980
We were gonna take Adam and Buddy to dinner
22:26.980 --> 22:30.780
and then Reggie said, "how much cash do you have on you?"
22:30.780 --> 22:31.660
and I said well, I don't have much cash
22:31.660 --> 22:34.620
but I can run home and get the checkbook.
22:34.620 --> 22:37.780
And he said, "I'll go get it."
22:37.780 --> 22:39.940
I said, "no, you just ordered a fresh drink. I'm done.
22:39.940 --> 22:41.780
I'll get a drink when I get back."
22:41.780 --> 22:44.760
So I ran out the door to go get the checkbook.
22:44.760 --> 22:47.080
It couldn't have taken more than 10 minutes
22:47.080 --> 22:50.820
and here the place was on fire.
22:50.820 --> 22:53.160
A friend of mine came running up to me
22:53.160 --> 22:56.360
and told me that a lot of people got out over the...
22:56.360 --> 22:58.680
They went.. there was a theater in the back.
22:58.680 --> 23:01.080
They went through the theater in the back and over the roof
23:01.080 --> 23:05.140
and they got out over on the
23:05.140 --> 23:07.360
Chartres Street side.
23:07.360 --> 23:09.540
So I thought, well maybe Reggie was over there.
23:09.540 --> 23:11.540
So I tried to walk around to Canal Street
23:11.540 --> 23:12.680
and come around that way,
23:12.680 --> 23:17.200
but they had most of Chartres blocked off with fire engines, because the bar being on the corner,
23:17.200 --> 23:22.100
they had fire engines on both streets that met on the corner there.
23:22.100 --> 23:25.640
I just kept looking through the crowd hoping to see Reggie and Adam.
23:25.640 --> 23:27.260
23:27.260 --> 23:30.700
On the street, after the fire, was like,
23:30.700 --> 23:32.320
just chaos!
23:32.320 --> 23:35.060
Crowds of people looking and watching.
23:35.060 --> 23:40.020
There were medical people there treating wound victims,
23:40.020 --> 23:42.440
people crying,
23:42.440 --> 23:45.840
and you know, it was a bad scene.
23:45.840 --> 23:48.840
There was one fella, his name was Luther.
23:48.840 --> 23:50.420
They had brought him out on a stretcher
23:50.420 --> 23:54.620
and I photographed him and he was in such pain.
23:54.620 --> 23:56.400
He was just screaming.
23:56.400 --> 23:58.760
He was lying on his back on the stretcher.
23:58.760 --> 24:02.560
His arms were up, his clothes were burnt off of him,
24:02.560 --> 24:04.520
all of his hair was burnt,
24:04.520 --> 24:07.140
and the smell of a burning building,
24:07.140 --> 24:09.260
the smell of burning flesh,
24:09.260 --> 24:11.300
just...
24:11.300 --> 24:12.520
uh..
24:12.520 --> 24:15.020
It was an awful smell.
24:15.020 --> 24:21.100
Bill Larson tried to escape by crawling out of a window,
24:21.100 --> 24:22.920
but was ultimately trapped
24:22.920 --> 24:25.780
by the window framing and by the bars that were there
24:25.780 --> 24:28.520
to prevent people from falling out of the windows.
24:28.520 --> 24:32.860
I saw the Reverend's body
24:32.860 --> 24:37.240
hanging halfway out the window,
24:37.240 --> 24:40.660
burned.
24:40.660 --> 24:45.320
I was just so totally horrified!
24:45.320 --> 24:46.680
24:46.680 --> 24:48.320
I looked at the other window,
24:48.320 --> 24:49.980
and I couldn't tell what that was.
24:49.980 --> 24:52.180
It was the person's rear
24:52.180 --> 24:54.560
trying to back through the window,
24:54.560 --> 25:00.560
and he had brown boots with a brass buckle on the boot
25:00.560 --> 25:04.020
and he was like in a fetus position
25:04.020 --> 25:08.220
trying to get out of the window and couldn't get through.
25:08.220 --> 25:12.540
And that was the window that was next to the one where the Reverend was
25:12.540 --> 25:16.740
and it also had a stack of bodies of people
25:16.740 --> 25:17.860
that were trying to get out
25:17.860 --> 25:22.180
and apparently, they just pressed up against the wall and the window
25:22.180 --> 25:23.560
and just, you know, they couldn't get out.
25:23.560 --> 25:24.960
They just burned there.
25:24.960 --> 25:29.260
When Buddy Rasmussen led people out the back way down into the street,
25:29.260 --> 25:33.460
he came around to the front of the bar where people were still struggling to get out the windows.
25:33.460 --> 25:36.860
He looked up, and he saw his lover, Adam, still sitting on the stool.
25:36.860 --> 25:38.340
He had not moved off his stool.
25:38.340 --> 25:41.200
He was sitting there waving his arms amidst the flames,
25:41.200 --> 25:42.500
screaming.
25:42.500 --> 25:44.140
And the last that Buddy saw of Adam
25:44.140 --> 25:46.620
was when a fire hose stream of water
25:46.620 --> 25:49.440
knocked Adam off his stool.
25:49.440 --> 25:54.580
25:54.580 --> 25:58.620
I started volunteering for the Red Cross on this Fire Watch Program
25:58.620 --> 26:00.300
going to fire scenes.
26:00.300 --> 26:02.980
We immediately swung into action.
26:02.980 --> 26:05.620
They had fellow Red Cross workers there,
26:05.620 --> 26:07.400
because the canteen truck was there,
26:07.400 --> 26:10.540
and we started tending to the injured
26:10.540 --> 26:12.540
and getting them off to hospitals.
26:12.540 --> 26:14.720
We had first-aid training.
26:14.720 --> 26:20.020
Of course, back then, first-aid training wasn't to the level of first responders,
26:20.020 --> 26:21.400
paramedic training of today.
26:21.400 --> 26:24.380
But, you know, we did what we can and that's another thing:
26:24.380 --> 26:28.580
With all of these things, is that you just switch into action.
26:28.580 --> 26:32.160
There's 29 fatalities at the Up Stairs Lounge,
26:32.160 --> 26:33.780
up there on the second floor
26:33.780 --> 26:37.800
and a good many of them were all piled against that front,
26:37.800 --> 26:40.300
you know, wall.
26:40.300 --> 26:43.920
And the firemen were having a lot of trouble getting those apart,
26:43.920 --> 26:45.140
putting them in body bags.
26:45.140 --> 26:46.940
They would put them in a snorkel fire truck
26:46.940 --> 26:49.910
that was right by the fire escape on Iberville Street
26:49.910 --> 26:51.180
and they would bring them down.
26:51.180 --> 26:55.420
So we would assist in taking the body bags off of there,
26:55.420 --> 26:58.120
and putting them into the coroner's unit.
26:58.120 --> 27:05.280
So we weren't exactly involved in recovering the remains,
27:05.280 --> 27:09.020
but we were in a way, because we were the part downstairs and all.
27:09.020 --> 27:10.720
We were on a street part.
27:10.720 --> 27:14.720
I was dispatched from the scene to Charity Hospital
27:14.720 --> 27:18.320
and I just walked in and stood in the emergency room,
27:18.320 --> 27:22.660
kind of up against the wall, right inside the doors that swung in.
27:22.660 --> 27:23.680
Lots of noise.
27:23.680 --> 27:24.960
Lots of moaning
27:24.960 --> 27:26.960
and you know,
27:26.960 --> 27:30.000
men howling in pain.
27:30.000 --> 27:34.160
The nurses and the interns and residents and doctors
27:34.160 --> 27:36.360
really were working together,
27:36.360 --> 27:37.820
hustling,
27:37.820 --> 27:38.980
yelling at each other,
27:38.980 --> 27:40.640
yelling to each other, you know.
27:40.640 --> 27:43.260
But they were racing against the clock
27:43.260 --> 27:45.060
to try to save as many as they could.
27:45.060 --> 27:47.800
Drawing blood, applying gauze and
27:47.800 --> 27:48.940
medication and you know,
27:48.940 --> 27:51.480
cutting people's clothing off to get to the wounds.
27:51.480 --> 27:56.080
And you know, they were triaging, doing their jobs.
27:56.080 --> 27:59.380
Again, very professional. Very caring.
27:59.380 --> 28:01.720
Doing what doctors and nurses were trained to do.
28:01.720 --> 28:02.240
28:02.240 --> 28:04.800
I ran up and down the hallway in Charity Hospital
28:04.800 --> 28:06.880
and asked
28:06.880 --> 28:09.060
Rusty Quinton and several other people,
28:09.060 --> 28:12.000
they're all deceased now,
28:12.000 --> 28:13.740
if they had seen Reggie.
28:13.740 --> 28:17.680
And none of them recalled seeing him.
28:17.680 --> 28:20.420
And they were also firemen and people there
28:20.420 --> 28:21.860
and one of the firemen explained to me
28:21.860 --> 28:23.240
that people sitting at the piano
28:23.240 --> 28:26.600
didn't make it out.
28:26.600 --> 28:30.040
At that time, he said there was no way of
28:30.040 --> 28:34.080
telling me if they were gonna be able to identify him
28:34.080 --> 28:36.980
because most of them were burned beyond recognition
28:36.980 --> 28:39.240
that we're sitting in that area.
28:39.240 --> 28:40.240
28:40.240 --> 28:46.060
News of the New Orleans fire quickly reached Reverend Troy Perry in Los Angeles.
28:46.060 --> 28:50.600
He learned that countless members of the Metropolitan Community Church
28:50.600 --> 28:52.600
were seriously injured or killed,
28:52.600 --> 28:55.700
including two clergy.
28:55.700 --> 28:56.920
28:56.920 --> 28:58.420
On the surface,
28:58.420 --> 29:02.800
this grim scene looked all too familiar to Reverend Perry
29:02.800 --> 29:06.940
and the Metropolitan Community Church.
29:06.940 --> 29:09.200
In January of the same year,
29:09.200 --> 29:13.240
an arsonist torched the MCC Mother Church in Los Angeles,
29:13.240 --> 29:16.020
nearing total destruction.
29:16.020 --> 29:17.900
Three months later,
29:17.900 --> 29:22.980
the MCC meeting place in Nashville, Tennessee was set on fire.
29:22.980 --> 29:25.980
And while no one was injured during these attacks,
29:25.980 --> 29:28.940
no one was arrested either.
29:28.940 --> 29:32.340
The New Orleans fire was the third in six months
29:32.340 --> 29:34.740
and it would be the deadliest single event
29:34.740 --> 29:40.040
to affect the Metropolitan Community Church.
29:40.040 --> 29:43.820
Troy immediately assembled a diverse and experienced team
29:43.820 --> 29:45.560
to travel to New Orleans
29:45.560 --> 29:47.160
to assist with recovery
29:47.160 --> 29:50.480
and help mobilize the community.
29:50.480 --> 29:55.720
The first to join Perry were MCC Reverends John Gill from Atlanta
29:55.720 --> 29:59.900
and Paul Breton from Washington, D.C..
29:59.900 --> 30:04.800
Morty Manford, president of the Gay Activist Alliance in New York and
30:04.800 --> 30:10.800
Morris Kight, the Director of the Los Angeles Gay and Lesbian Community Services Center,
30:10.800 --> 30:13.920
soon joined the delegation.
30:13.920 --> 30:17.960
Both men had a great deal of experience dealing with the press,
30:17.960 --> 30:20.840
city officials and law enforcement.
30:20.840 --> 30:21.720
30:21.720 --> 30:23.640
When I arrived in New Orleans,
30:23.640 --> 30:26.920
Reverend John Gill picked me up at the airport
30:26.920 --> 30:30.140
and once we arrived at Bill's house,
30:30.140 --> 30:32.640
it was devastation.
30:32.640 --> 30:34.340
Devastation.
30:34.340 --> 30:38.020
Everybody crying.
30:38.020 --> 30:39.920
All of us
30:39.920 --> 30:41.940
30:41.940 --> 30:45.180
trying to come to terms.
30:45.180 --> 30:49.560
We preachers trying to reassure everybody,
30:49.560 --> 30:52.420
no, God does not hate us.
30:52.420 --> 30:55.440
This is not God who did this,
30:55.440 --> 30:59.680
any more than God killed Jews in the Holocaust.
30:59.680 --> 31:03.600
This is mass murder.
31:03.600 --> 31:06.080
This is not God angry at us.
31:06.080 --> 31:08.080
Some human being did this,
31:08.080 --> 31:10.900
not God.
31:10.900 --> 31:12.640
It was very rough.
31:12.640 --> 31:16.120
And we had announced when we arrived,
31:16.120 --> 31:19.120
that we were gonna hold a press conference
31:19.120 --> 31:23.340
at five o'clock in the afternoon on top of the Marriott.
31:23.340 --> 31:27.460
And of course, we walked over and looked down and there was ...
31:27.460 --> 31:30.760
31:30.760 --> 31:34.360
The next street over was where the bar was at -
31:34.360 --> 31:36.200
the Up Stairs Lounge.
31:36.200 --> 31:40.400
And we looked at the burned out front of it.
31:40.400 --> 31:45.360
But here we are, and the first thing that happened was
31:45.360 --> 31:47.860
we pick up the newspapers and
31:47.860 --> 31:51.680
my God, I went, I mean, through the roof!
31:51.680 --> 31:56.360
It quoted Major Morris of the police department:
31:56.360 --> 31:59.400
We may have a long time to find out who these people were.
31:59.400 --> 32:01.340
This is a bar frequented by,
32:01.340 --> 32:03.100
now what I remember was,
32:03.100 --> 32:07.400
"thieves, burglars and queers".
32:07.400 --> 32:08.440
So when he said it,
32:08.440 --> 32:09.940
I just hit the ceiling!
32:09.940 --> 32:11.200
I mean,
32:11.200 --> 32:12.360
I went nuts!
32:12.360 --> 32:13.760
And of course, the press shows up
32:13.760 --> 32:15.380
because this is the first time
32:15.380 --> 32:18.300
New Orleans has ever had homosexuals
32:18.300 --> 32:23.500
who were willing to talk in front of TV cameras in broad daylight,
32:23.500 --> 32:27.080
and I mean, we had talked before and they could tell it!
32:27.080 --> 32:30.780
So I said, "You know, this has got to stop!"
32:30.780 --> 32:33.740
I said, "this is not thieves, burglars and queers".
32:33.740 --> 32:38.100
"This is somebody's mother, father, daughter, son."
32:38.100 --> 32:41.260
I said, "these are human beings who have burned to death"!
32:41.260 --> 32:43.440
I said, "we've heard the jokes.
32:43.440 --> 32:46.220
We know what people are saying.
32:46.220 --> 32:47.880
'What are you gonna bury them in?
32:47.880 --> 32:49.920
Fruit jars?'"
32:49.920 --> 32:52.120
I mean,
32:52.120 --> 32:54.080
comments that were made!
32:54.080 --> 32:54.720
32:54.720 --> 32:56.640
The reaction to it
32:56.640 --> 32:59.400
32:59.400 --> 33:04.040
certainly spoke to the homophobia,
33:04.040 --> 33:05.880
not necessarily of the city,
33:05.880 --> 33:09.240
but society in general, as far as I'm concerned.
33:09.240 --> 33:12.620
I remember one photographer, older man,
33:12.620 --> 33:15.180
referred to it as "The Fruit Fry"
33:15.180 --> 33:17.200
And others talked about, you know,
33:17.200 --> 33:19.280
"roasting the fags" and that kind of stuff.
33:19.280 --> 33:21.600
All the kind of bigoted epithets.
33:21.600 --> 33:23.680
It wasn't constant, but I heard it.
33:23.680 --> 33:24.460
33:24.460 --> 33:27.640
Everybody was trying to find out who had made it out,
33:27.640 --> 33:30.760
who had perished.
33:30.760 --> 33:36.680
What do we do if we got word that our friends had perished?
33:36.680 --> 33:39.260
How do you contact the family?
33:39.260 --> 33:43.540
It was just so much uncertainty, as what to do.
33:43.540 --> 33:44.820
And again,
33:44.820 --> 33:48.060
having to go to work the next day and
33:48.060 --> 33:49.660
pretend as if it didn't bother you,
33:49.660 --> 33:51.660
or you hadn't heard about it,
33:51.660 --> 33:52.919
because,
33:52.920 --> 33:55.540
we couldn't come out at work.
33:55.540 --> 33:57.340
So you had to pretend:
33:57.340 --> 33:58.760
"Oh, there was a fire?"
33:58.760 --> 34:01.160
"Oh, did somebody die?"
34:01.160 --> 34:02.380
While inside,
34:02.380 --> 34:03.960
there was a lump in your throat
34:03.960 --> 34:06.120
that was enough to choke you.
34:06.120 --> 34:09.480
But that was just part of the play-acting
34:09.480 --> 34:13.160
that we all learned to do back in those days.
34:13.160 --> 34:15.520
Apparently, after the fire,
34:15.520 --> 34:18.580
both Mayor Landrieu and Governor Edwin Edwards
34:18.580 --> 34:20.700
thought that it was
34:20.700 --> 34:24.680
unnecessary or politically risky
34:24.680 --> 34:28.140
to acknowledge the suffering and the deaths
34:28.140 --> 34:29.680
of gay men.
34:29.680 --> 34:31.620
34:31.620 --> 34:33.660
And so they didn't want to do it.
34:33.660 --> 34:36.220
Both were called repeatedly
34:36.220 --> 34:38.340
and asked to issue statements
34:38.340 --> 34:40.300
and neither would.
34:40.300 --> 34:45.000
Within eight months prior to the Up Stairs fire,
34:45.000 --> 34:48.840
there were two very serious tragedies in New Orleans,
34:48.840 --> 34:51.260
both of them fire related.
34:51.260 --> 34:56.460
The Rault Center fire killed six people.
34:56.460 --> 35:00.280
And when that happened, the Mayor, Moon Landrieu,
35:00.280 --> 35:02.340
Governor Edwin Edwards
35:02.340 --> 35:06.020
and Archbishop Philip Hannan,
35:06.020 --> 35:11.080
made many public statements to the press
35:11.080 --> 35:13.680
about how this was a huge tragedy
35:13.680 --> 35:17.780
and a day of mourning was declared for the city.
35:17.780 --> 35:22.220
The death toll from the Howard Johnson's incident
35:22.220 --> 35:24.860
was 10.
35:24.860 --> 35:27.640
And again, Mayor Moon Landrieu,
35:27.640 --> 35:29.400
Governor Edwin Edwards,
35:29.400 --> 35:31.440
Archbishop Hannan,
35:31.440 --> 35:33.920
all made statements to the news -
35:33.920 --> 35:38.820
to newsprint sources, to television journalists, to radio journalists.
35:38.820 --> 35:41.980
Archbishop Hannan went to the hospital
35:41.980 --> 35:46.000
to comfort survivors and their families.
35:46.000 --> 35:50.120
He also preached the funeral mass for two of the dead.
35:50.120 --> 35:51.520
35:51.520 --> 35:54.680
Then a few months later, the Up Stairs Lounge fire happened
35:54.680 --> 35:56.640
and the ultimate death toll was 32.
35:56.640 --> 36:00.520
So it was double that of the Howard Johnson's incident
36:00.520 --> 36:04.540
and the Rault Center incident, combined.
36:04.540 --> 36:06.240
All three men:
36:06.240 --> 36:08.820
the Governor, the Mayor, the Archbishop -
36:08.820 --> 36:11.140
were completely silent.
36:11.140 --> 36:13.300
There was no day of mourning.
36:13.300 --> 36:15.500
There were no public statements.
36:15.500 --> 36:19.280
They seemed to have actively avoided the press.
36:19.280 --> 36:21.180
36:21.180 --> 36:24.580
It was as though those lives didn't count.
36:24.580 --> 36:25.720
36:25.720 --> 36:29.440
I lost my grandmother and two uncles in the fire.
36:29.440 --> 36:31.460
It was devastating to my family -
36:31.460 --> 36:34.800
losing three members of our family at one time.
36:34.800 --> 36:39.020
How can any family recover easily?
36:39.020 --> 36:41.680
The non-acknowledgment
36:41.680 --> 36:44.500
was a slap in the face of every family member,
36:44.500 --> 36:46.800
not just my family.
36:46.800 --> 36:47.420
36:47.420 --> 36:51.280
Mitch and his partner had their kids that weekend -
36:51.280 --> 36:54.820
two sons.
36:54.820 --> 36:56.940
And I was worried that they had taken them to the bar,
36:56.940 --> 36:59.240
because sometimes in New Orleans you could get away with that,
36:59.240 --> 37:01.560
I mean, as long as there was an adult with the kid.
37:01.560 --> 37:02.840
So we're all trying to figure out,
37:02.840 --> 37:04.660
"where are the kids"?
37:04.660 --> 37:05.220
37:05.220 --> 37:08.380
They took us the movies, and said that they were going to go get
37:08.380 --> 37:10.600
some drinks, I think, or something,
37:10.600 --> 37:12.520
and go to a meeting.
37:12.520 --> 37:13.880
Me and my brother
37:13.880 --> 37:15.880
went to see 'The World's Greatest Athlete'.
37:15.880 --> 37:18.560
I'll never forget that as long as I live.
37:18.560 --> 37:22.420
They kept on running it over and over and over,
37:22.420 --> 37:25.460
hoping somebody would show up and pick us up,
37:25.460 --> 37:27.800
but nobody did.
37:27.800 --> 37:28.940
I knew something was wrong.
37:28.940 --> 37:30.680
I felt something was wrong.
37:30.680 --> 37:33.900
'Cuz Daddy ain't never left us like that before.
37:33.900 --> 37:38.240
You know, he's always come back and got us, you know.
37:38.240 --> 37:41.920
And they kept on playing and playing and playing
37:41.920 --> 37:45.120
and they never showed back up.
37:45.120 --> 37:50.280
I didn't know for a whole week that my Dad had died.
37:50.280 --> 37:53.140
But a government official or you know,
37:53.140 --> 37:56.160
police chief or mayor or
37:56.160 --> 37:57.660
anybody...
37:57.660 --> 38:00.140
Nobody ever
38:00.140 --> 38:02.900
said "sorry for your loss" or
38:02.900 --> 38:05.200
"sorry this happened to y'all" or what.
38:05.200 --> 38:07.560
You know, nothing!
38:07.560 --> 38:09.580
And it does make me angry!
38:09.580 --> 38:11.640
It really does!
38:11.640 --> 38:14.560
Because all them lives was snuffed out
38:14.560 --> 38:15.760
like a candle!
38:15.760 --> 38:16.520
Just [pfft]!
38:16.520 --> 38:17.920
That was it
38:17.920 --> 38:19.570
and
38:19.570 --> 38:22.360
nobody cared about them.
38:22.360 --> 38:26.180
So the largest challenge was trying to deal
38:26.180 --> 38:28.240
with the living.
38:28.240 --> 38:31.820
I knew that the people here needed some help
38:31.820 --> 38:33.130
and
38:33.130 --> 38:35.900
the help can range anywhere from just
38:35.900 --> 38:38.840
having a good shoulder to cry on,
38:38.840 --> 38:40.960
to a good hug,
38:40.960 --> 38:42.760
to
38:42.760 --> 38:45.200
people trying to work with them
38:45.200 --> 38:47.220
and go through their pain and their sorrow
38:47.220 --> 38:48.820
as they went through it.
38:48.820 --> 38:51.520
That's very much
38:51.520 --> 38:54.160
something that's needed by human beings
38:54.160 --> 38:55.520
is the ability to cry -
38:55.520 --> 38:58.820
the ability to feel empathy from other people.
38:58.820 --> 39:03.320
Sometimes just knowing somebody, somewhere cares,
39:03.320 --> 39:06.900
makes all the difference in the world!
39:06.900 --> 39:11.360
I started meeting people and
39:11.360 --> 39:14.680
ministering with people,
39:14.680 --> 39:17.680
touching people, holding people, going to the funeral homes,
39:17.680 --> 39:19.420
going to the hospitals -
39:19.420 --> 39:22.780
The hospital visitations were the ones that were the hardest to do.
39:22.780 --> 39:24.440
One of the things that I -
39:24.440 --> 39:26.280
I've always believed is important,
39:26.280 --> 39:28.100
is when I go see someone in the hospital,
39:28.100 --> 39:30.380
is the importance of touch,
39:30.380 --> 39:32.640
just holding a person's hand,
39:32.640 --> 39:35.740
being very important for that person's healing.
39:35.740 --> 39:37.960
I was not able to
39:37.960 --> 39:39.420
anoint them for healing
39:39.420 --> 39:40.820
or to give them communion
39:40.820 --> 39:42.640
because of the fear of infection.
39:42.640 --> 39:44.300
Jean Gosnell,
39:44.300 --> 39:46.700
Jim Hambrick and Luther Boggs
39:46.700 --> 39:49.900
were the three people that I remember the most,
39:49.900 --> 39:53.240
that I visited in the hospital regularly.
39:53.240 --> 39:56.360
Luther's spirits were very high.
39:56.360 --> 40:01.120
Luther was determined that he was going to get out of the hospital
40:01.120 --> 40:05.480
and he was going to go back to work
40:05.480 --> 40:10.660
and he was not going to let a little thing like getting burnt keep him down.
40:10.660 --> 40:13.200
His words, not mine.
40:13.200 --> 40:15.520
But Luther was just an absolutely wonderful person,
40:15.520 --> 40:18.280
always asking about others,
40:18.280 --> 40:23.540
never once, do I remember him complaining about his own pain or injury,
40:23.540 --> 40:25.360
even though he was badly injured
40:25.360 --> 40:27.840
and he became one of the deceased.
40:27.840 --> 40:30.560
40:30.560 --> 40:33.380
But I had to go to the hospital
40:33.380 --> 40:36.740
every day for a while
40:36.740 --> 40:40.440
because I had like third-degree burns on my face and
40:40.440 --> 40:44.410
this arm, here, here and all down here.
40:44.410 --> 40:47.600
And they had to peel the skin off me.
40:47.600 --> 40:51.380
They kind of scraped it and then peel it.
40:51.380 --> 40:53.360
I was like, "Oh, God".
40:53.360 --> 40:55.060
And it made you so weak
40:55.060 --> 40:56.680
and you were so tired.
40:56.680 --> 40:57.760
You know, like I said,
40:57.760 --> 40:59.720
when I got home, I just slept.
40:59.720 --> 41:01.840
Slept, slept, slept.
41:01.840 --> 41:04.200
I had a hard time eating.
41:04.200 --> 41:06.300
I lost tons of weight.
41:06.300 --> 41:07.620
I lost about,
41:07.620 --> 41:10.680
maybe 40 pounds.
41:10.680 --> 41:15.680
I mean all I wanted to do was just be alone.
41:15.680 --> 41:17.820
I don't think I ever felt loneliness in my life
41:17.820 --> 41:19.300
until that point.
41:19.300 --> 41:21.960
For days, I kept expecting him to come through the door.
41:21.960 --> 41:23.100
I called my mother
41:23.100 --> 41:25.040
and she came over and she stayed with me.
41:25.040 --> 41:27.120
She said, "you would get up and fix breakfast,
41:27.120 --> 41:29.340
and lay his clothes out of work and everything,
41:29.340 --> 41:31.540
like he was going to get up and go to work."
41:31.540 --> 41:33.240
She said, "you were kind of in a daze".
41:33.240 --> 41:34.360
41:34.360 --> 41:37.520
It's, it's an emptiness.
41:37.520 --> 41:40.980
You feel totally helpless.
41:40.980 --> 41:45.640
It's just like a deep, black hole
41:45.640 --> 41:48.540
and you just keep waiting for answers
41:48.540 --> 41:50.320
and none come.
41:50.320 --> 41:51.140
41:51.140 --> 41:55.160
This is the first time we've had members murdered!
41:55.160 --> 41:56.940
This is the first for us!
41:56.940 --> 41:57.880
We started looking around.
41:57.880 --> 41:59.780
What are we going to do?!
41:59.780 --> 42:02.260
And then, God bless Father Richardson!
42:02.260 --> 42:04.340
He said, "we're gonna open the church up for prayer
42:04.340 --> 42:06.020
and just a small service.
42:06.020 --> 42:07.520
I know you're gonna do something later,
42:07.520 --> 42:09.180
but just something."
42:09.180 --> 42:10.660
And we got there and we had about
42:10.660 --> 42:14.120
maybe 35 people there.
42:14.120 --> 42:17.600
People couldn't quit crying.
42:17.600 --> 42:21.780
It was more like we went in and cried together,
42:21.780 --> 42:23.860
held each other,
42:23.860 --> 42:26.220
waddled through a little,
42:26.220 --> 42:28.900
a very short, little service.
42:28.900 --> 42:31.100
It was heartbreaking.
42:31.100 --> 42:32.520
42:32.520 --> 42:35.300
At the conclusion of the memorial service,
42:35.300 --> 42:38.400
Reverend Perry declared a National Day of Mourning
42:38.400 --> 42:41.100
to be observed around the country.
42:41.100 --> 42:43.240
He also announced the creation of
42:43.240 --> 42:46.380
the National New Orleans Memorial Fund.
42:46.380 --> 42:46.920
42:46.920 --> 42:52.100
We set up a memorial fund for the people who were affected by the fire
42:52.100 --> 42:55.760
and the memorial fund was to raise money
42:55.760 --> 42:57.920
to generically
42:57.920 --> 43:02.180
try to alleviate their needs, if we possibly could.
43:02.180 --> 43:05.100
Sometimes it was to help bury the person.
43:05.100 --> 43:08.680
Sometimes it was
43:08.680 --> 43:11.440
to help a person get resettled
43:11.440 --> 43:13.380
after coming out of the hospital.
43:13.380 --> 43:18.420
Other times, it was to help with other expenses that the person may have had.
43:18.420 --> 43:22.600
So what we wanted to do with the Memorial Fund, was to make money available
43:22.600 --> 43:24.600
basically upon request.
43:24.600 --> 43:26.380
Somebody would call us and say
43:26.380 --> 43:29.600
this is what the situation is
43:29.600 --> 43:31.440
and then we would write out a check
43:31.440 --> 43:33.640
and send it to that person right away
43:33.640 --> 43:34.560
and it would be,
43:34.560 --> 43:36.840
would be a "no questions asked".
43:36.840 --> 43:39.600
What we didn't realize at that time,
43:39.600 --> 43:43.540
was that our organizing abilities
43:43.540 --> 43:47.380
at the time of the fire,
43:47.380 --> 43:50.460
and the start of the National New Orleans Memorial Fund,
43:50.460 --> 43:54.320
was the foundation stone, the cornerstone if you will,
43:54.320 --> 43:57.720
for what would happen ten years later with the AIDS epidemic
43:57.720 --> 44:01.140
of establishing our organizations at that time,
44:01.140 --> 44:03.580
for dealing with that epidemic.
44:03.580 --> 44:05.060
44:05.060 --> 44:07.760
The next morning, The Times-Picayune
44:07.760 --> 44:11.020
published an article about the memorial service,
44:11.020 --> 44:14.800
and it identified St. George's Episcopal Church.
44:14.800 --> 44:15.520
44:15.520 --> 44:19.360
"Well, I just finished reading, when the phone rang."
44:19.360 --> 45:45.680
45:45.680 --> 45:50.420
There were multiple attempts to find a church
45:50.420 --> 45:55.740
where there could be a large-scale memorial service for all the dead.
45:55.740 --> 45:56.940
I kept pushing.
45:56.940 --> 46:03.060
I called Baptist churches that laughed and hung up on me.
46:03.060 --> 46:04.740
I started calling everybody
46:04.740 --> 46:06.200
I thought where someone told me
46:06.200 --> 46:07.900
there might be somebody
46:07.900 --> 46:11.100
"liberal" enough to let us hold our service there,
46:11.100 --> 46:13.360
but were willing to take the heat.
46:13.360 --> 46:16.040
And I was used to having to take the heat,
46:16.040 --> 46:17.880
and I knew what heterosexuals -
46:17.880 --> 46:20.160
they were persecuted worse than we were
46:20.160 --> 46:22.440
when they were friends of ours.
46:22.440 --> 46:24.760
So I said, "what do we do?"
46:24.760 --> 46:27.620
I called the Archbishop's office
46:27.620 --> 46:30.440
and they wanted to know if anybody who had died was Catholic
46:30.440 --> 46:32.700
and I said "well, I think...."
46:32.700 --> 46:35.060
[Office response:] "They would have to call - the families would.
46:35.060 --> 46:37.060
We don't give our church,
46:37.060 --> 46:38.940
let anybody use our churches
46:38.940 --> 46:40.770
for something like that."
46:40.770 --> 46:42.920
They were very nasty on the phone.
46:42.920 --> 46:44.320
I couldn't get over it.
46:44.320 --> 46:46.940
They contacted a Lutheran Church
46:46.940 --> 46:50.020
who said well, "we won't let you use our church,
46:50.020 --> 46:52.920
but you might try this,
46:52.920 --> 46:53.860
this,
46:53.860 --> 46:55.820
this church over here.
46:55.820 --> 46:58.580
It's in a black neighborhood.
46:58.580 --> 46:59.720
It has a black minister,
46:59.720 --> 47:02.880
and they're very tolerant of aliens there."
47:02.880 --> 47:05.120
They used the word "aliens"!
47:05.120 --> 47:10.120
As though gays and lesbians come from outer space or something!
47:10.120 --> 47:12.580
47:12.580 --> 47:18.140
I wanted to use a church property,
47:18.140 --> 47:19.500
but we kept looking and saying,
47:19.500 --> 47:21.460
"if we CAN'T, what do we do?"
47:21.460 --> 47:23.520
Finally we said, "ok,
47:23.520 --> 47:25.140
we will hold the service right here,
47:25.140 --> 47:28.360
in front of the of the Up Stairs Lounge."
47:28.360 --> 47:29.360
47:29.360 --> 47:31.780
I found out that there was a Vieux Carre Commission
47:31.780 --> 47:35.920
and they had the power to shut down a street if they needed to.
47:35.920 --> 47:37.600
And so I went to the Vieux Carre Commission
47:37.600 --> 47:39.200
and they said, "Yes."
47:39.200 --> 47:40.580
They would shut down the streets
47:40.580 --> 47:42.320
so we could hold the service in the street,
47:42.320 --> 47:44.340
if I couldn't find a place.
47:44.340 --> 47:45.080
47:45.080 --> 47:48.420
Many people were hurt by the fact
47:48.420 --> 47:51.800
that churches were not paying attention to those who were injured.
47:51.800 --> 47:56.060
Churches were not paying attention to those who had died.
47:56.060 --> 47:58.960
And that was very painful.
47:58.960 --> 48:00.720
48:00.720 --> 48:02.800
Religion,
48:02.800 --> 48:04.680
love it or hate it,
48:04.680 --> 48:08.260
religion plays a very important part in lives of people
48:08.260 --> 48:10.820
and they grow up with it
48:10.820 --> 48:13.180
and they have certain expectations
48:13.180 --> 48:17.100
and even if there's a point at which...
48:17.100 --> 48:19.580
48:19.580 --> 48:23.720
religion says to you, "you don't belong here anymore",
48:23.720 --> 48:27.520
you want to feel that at the time of death,
48:27.520 --> 48:29.660
that at least religion will respond at that point of time,
48:29.660 --> 48:32.360
simply out of empathy,
48:32.360 --> 48:34.600
out of some type of compassion.
48:34.600 --> 48:37.200
And I think the churches at the time of the fire,
48:37.200 --> 48:39.980
the response of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese,
48:39.980 --> 48:43.500
was most definitely, beyond any question of doubt,
48:43.500 --> 48:45.660
Anti-Christian.
48:45.660 --> 48:50.720
It was contrary to what
48:50.720 --> 48:52.900
I believe the Gospel calls us to do.
48:52.900 --> 48:54.560
Now admittedly,
48:54.560 --> 48:59.180
the Catholic Church has historically regarded homosexuality as a sin
48:59.180 --> 49:01.840
or an aberration.
49:01.840 --> 49:04.980
49:04.980 --> 49:08.640
But even the earliest news reports
49:08.640 --> 49:15.080
were dealing with the possibility that the fire had been intentionally set.
49:15.080 --> 49:21.900
Certainly, a church leader could have gone on record as saying
49:21.900 --> 49:25.600
that murdering multiple people
49:25.600 --> 49:27.360
was wrong.
49:27.360 --> 49:31.540
Certainly, a church leader could have gone on record as saying
49:31.540 --> 49:34.720
that he wished the police,
49:34.720 --> 49:37.240
that he prayed the police
49:37.240 --> 49:41.700
would have every success in apprehending the culprit.
49:41.700 --> 49:45.060
Certainly, a church leader could have said,
49:45.060 --> 49:50.320
even though I disagree with the way these people live their lives,
49:50.320 --> 49:56.020
they should not have been the victims of an arsonist.
49:56.020 --> 49:58.740
Because Jesus was the man who sat down
49:58.740 --> 50:04.040
with prostitutes and tax collectors and all kinds of undesirables,
50:04.040 --> 50:08.160
and he found room in his heart for those people and
50:08.160 --> 50:12.160
Archbishop Hannan could have and should have done the same.
50:12.160 --> 50:13.600
50:13.600 --> 50:18.180
Not all churches were hostile and devoid of compassion.
50:18.180 --> 50:21.360
With the blessing of Bishop Finis Crutchfield,
50:21.360 --> 50:23.760
Reverend Edward Kennedy opened the doors to
50:23.760 --> 50:27.320
St. Mark's Methodist Church for the memorial service.
50:27.320 --> 50:28.300
50:28.300 --> 50:31.680
Yeah, I think Bishop Crutchfield thought it was important
50:31.680 --> 50:36.940
for St. Mark's to host the memorial service -
50:36.940 --> 50:40.880
was one, because he knew his own,
50:40.880 --> 50:45.520
you know, personal struggles and
50:45.520 --> 50:47.860
wished the church,
50:47.860 --> 50:50.340
at least in this moment,
50:50.340 --> 50:52.900
you know, would do the right thing.
50:52.900 --> 50:57.520
But I also think that it was an opportunity
50:57.520 --> 51:00.960
for the Bishop to use his influence
51:00.960 --> 51:03.360
in a way that
51:03.360 --> 51:05.820
spoke to the,
51:05.820 --> 51:07.240
at least in part,
51:07.240 --> 51:09.720
this church's commitment
51:09.720 --> 51:11.640
to justice.
51:11.640 --> 51:12.580
51:12.580 --> 51:14.940
We started passing out leaflets.
51:14.940 --> 51:17.000
All in the Vieux Carre.
51:17.000 --> 51:19.160
I had thousands printed,
51:19.160 --> 51:21.700
inviting people to the memorial service.
51:21.700 --> 51:25.660
I was shocked at the businesses who put them up.
51:25.660 --> 51:27.480
I mean businesses I wouldn't have expected.
51:27.480 --> 51:31.160
I was shocked at the ones who wouldn't put them up.
51:31.160 --> 51:34.140
And then I got a message - Morris and I.
51:34.140 --> 51:39.020
We went over to meet with the "business owners" of gay bars.
51:39.020 --> 52:05.840
52:05.840 --> 52:08.800
One of them made the mistake right off the bat,
52:08.800 --> 52:11.220
of calling me a "carpetbagger"!
52:11.220 --> 52:12.680
Well, I'm a Southerner!
52:12.680 --> 52:15.620
To call somebody a "carpetbagger"
52:15.620 --> 52:18.580
was a put-down of the worst sort!
52:18.580 --> 52:19.960
That meant something bad -
52:19.960 --> 52:22.920
people who came to take advantage of a situation.
52:22.920 --> 52:24.460
That's the way I took it!
52:24.460 --> 52:27.840
He's accusing me of coming in here somehow to take advantage of this!
52:27.840 --> 52:30.260
I had paid my own way there.
52:30.260 --> 52:32.260
The others paid their way there.
52:32.260 --> 52:33.520
None of us had money.
52:33.520 --> 52:35.600
I mean, we were not rich people
52:35.600 --> 52:37.300
and I like to remind people of that!
52:37.300 --> 52:38.800
We didn't have to go,
52:38.800 --> 52:40.320
but we did!
52:40.320 --> 52:43.160
And so, for somebody to do that
52:43.160 --> 52:44.820
and to say that in such a way
52:44.820 --> 52:48.440
to make it sound like we were opportunists there,
52:48.440 --> 52:51.060
was very, very upsetting.
52:51.060 --> 52:53.040
I thought it was grandstanding,
52:53.040 --> 52:54.760
self-serving
52:54.760 --> 52:56.960
and I thought it was gonna hurt us.
52:56.960 --> 52:59.120
Hurt us and the city.
52:59.120 --> 53:02.280
None of us saw the Up Stairs fire as,
53:02.280 --> 53:04.760
uh,
53:04.760 --> 53:07.920
as, as a problem
53:07.920 --> 53:10.840
with the police versus gays
53:10.840 --> 53:12.700
or the straights versus gays
53:12.700 --> 53:14.640
or the city versus gays.
53:14.640 --> 53:17.660
I mean, we didn't see it as a political thing.
53:17.660 --> 53:21.040
The whole idea of
53:21.040 --> 53:23.540
activism was
53:23.540 --> 53:25.080
53:25.080 --> 53:27.720
not even considered!
53:27.720 --> 53:30.420
I went up and told him,
53:30.420 --> 53:32.880
"I hate to take the wind out of your sails,
53:32.880 --> 53:39.120
I just don't think the fire was that big of deal in New Orleans."
53:39.120 --> 53:40.420
It was a horrible thing,
53:40.420 --> 53:41.620
it was a tragedy,
53:41.620 --> 53:43.040
blah, blah, blah...
53:43.040 --> 53:45.060
but, I mean, it was not personal!
53:45.060 --> 53:49.220
I said, "It. Is. A. Big. Deal!
53:49.220 --> 53:52.020
Over 20 people are dead!
53:52.020 --> 53:54.160
That's a big deal!"
53:54.160 --> 53:57.180
And I said, "it happened in one of OUR bars!
53:57.180 --> 53:58.960
THAT's a big deal!
53:58.960 --> 54:02.160
Members of my church are dead in that property!
54:02.160 --> 54:04.220
THAT's a big deal!!"
54:04.220 --> 54:05.340
54:05.340 --> 54:07.260
Maybe we should have been,
54:07.260 --> 54:10.720
you know, more compassionate.
54:10.720 --> 54:12.820
Maybe we should have been...
54:12.820 --> 54:15.560
there should have been more solidarity.
54:15.560 --> 54:18.020
There simply wasn't.
54:18.020 --> 54:24.020
54:24.020 --> 54:26.060
The day of the funeral,
54:26.060 --> 54:27.720
we gathered together,
54:27.720 --> 54:31.480
and I had no idea whether there would be people there or not
54:31.480 --> 54:34.340
and people started coming in.
54:34.340 --> 54:36.320
I was never...
54:36.320 --> 54:38.190
54:38.190 --> 54:42.860
Again, people who don't understand those time periods -
54:42.860 --> 54:45.440
how rough it was -
54:45.440 --> 54:47.780
I was never more proud
54:47.780 --> 54:51.700
to see all these GLBT people coming in for that service.
54:51.700 --> 54:55.080
We filled the balcony. We filled the church.
54:55.080 --> 54:55.940
54:55.940 --> 55:02.080
It meant everything that the Bishop of the Methodist Church had the guts to come to this service.
55:02.080 --> 55:05.520
I saw people there react,
55:05.520 --> 55:08.060
knowing, the gay folks who were there,
55:08.060 --> 55:11.140
the Methodists, that their Bishop was there!
55:11.140 --> 55:13.640
And he wasn't there to shut anything down!
55:13.640 --> 55:16.140
He was there to be be respectful
55:16.140 --> 55:18.540
and to be a part of the congregation.
55:18.540 --> 55:20.920
He said, "I want to come today to let you know",
55:20.920 --> 55:23.420
he says that,
55:23.420 --> 55:29.200
"many of those people who were burned to death in that fire were my friends".
55:29.200 --> 55:31.980
And, the way he said it,
55:31.980 --> 55:33.900
Let me know, again,
55:33.900 --> 55:35.180
he knew gay people.
55:35.180 --> 55:37.600
I mean, this is whatever he may have been at that time.
55:37.600 --> 55:39.300
I didn't know anything.
55:39.300 --> 55:42.960
That he, you know, he knew, at least.
55:42.960 --> 55:44.080
And he said,
55:44.080 --> 55:46.560
"No, no..I also want to let you know that,
55:46.560 --> 55:49.920
in the Methodist Church in Louisiana,"
55:49.920 --> 55:51.340
he says that,
55:51.340 --> 55:54.180
"I wanted you to know that everybody here's not a redneck..."
55:54.180 --> 55:56.420
[Laughter]
55:56.420 --> 56:00.580
and he says, "number two, this pastor's not acting on his own".
56:00.580 --> 56:04.580
Reverend Kennedy absolutely had the support of his Bishop.
56:04.580 --> 56:05.960
56:05.960 --> 56:09.060
We opened the service
56:09.060 --> 56:12.380
with Reverend Paul Breton, if I remember right,
56:12.380 --> 56:14.620
who opened with prayer,
56:14.620 --> 56:18.680
John Gill led the music and read a scripture,
56:18.680 --> 56:21.480
then I preached:
56:21.480 --> 56:24.180
"Our friends will always have respect because
56:24.180 --> 56:26.620
they will forever be in our hearts!
56:26.620 --> 56:29.680
The memory of our loved ones is so visible,
56:29.680 --> 56:32.180
that I can almost feel their presence!
56:32.180 --> 56:33.420
If they could speak,
56:33.420 --> 56:34.400
they would tell us,
56:34.400 --> 56:37.580
'Hold our heads high'"!
56:37.580 --> 56:39.360
56:39.360 --> 56:42.880
When I finish preaching and
56:42.880 --> 56:46.060
Reverend John Gill got up and led the song,
56:46.060 --> 56:48.760
the pastor of the church passed me a note up,
56:48.760 --> 56:51.520
and he said, "Reverend Perry, to give you a heads-up,
56:51.520 --> 56:54.340
there is a camera crew who is set up
56:54.340 --> 56:57.900
across the street from the church
56:57.900 --> 56:59.860
and they're going to film you all as you come out.
56:59.860 --> 57:01.180
Now, there's a side door.
57:01.180 --> 57:02.520
There's a way to get out of this building:
57:02.520 --> 57:04.980
You will go out in an alley.
57:04.980 --> 57:06.420
And you tell the people, the ones who are frightened,
57:06.420 --> 57:07.780
that they can go out that way."
57:07.780 --> 57:09.920
So I got up and I said, "I'm so sorry."
57:09.920 --> 57:11.840
I said, "I feel like I've lied to you all".
57:11.840 --> 57:14.760
I said, "I cannot control what happens outside of this building,
57:14.760 --> 57:16.040
but I can control in here.
57:16.040 --> 57:18.560
I told you there would be no cameras".
57:18.560 --> 57:22.320
I said, "well, they've set up their cameras all across the street.
57:22.320 --> 57:23.920
They're waiting for everybody to leave.
57:23.920 --> 57:27.520
The pastor of the church told me this is the way you can leave the building, without being seen.
57:27.520 --> 57:28.940
So you who need to do it,
57:28.940 --> 57:31.560
this is how you get out of the building and go into the alley".
57:31.560 --> 57:34.200
And with that, a woman up in the balcony started screaming,
57:34.200 --> 57:35.060
"NO!"
57:35.060 --> 57:35.600
57:35.600 --> 57:36.500
"No!"
57:36.500 --> 57:37.560
"No!"
57:37.560 --> 57:39.800
"We came in the front door,
57:39.800 --> 57:42.180
we're gonna leave by the front door!"
57:42.180 --> 57:45.020
It's an old Southern thing, but it was the truth.
57:45.020 --> 57:46.700
But I'll tell you,
57:46.700 --> 57:51.580
I watched literally, people pick themselves up -
57:51.580 --> 57:54.360
People slumped over all at once stood tall,
57:54.360 --> 57:57.500
like, "if I'm gonna be on television, by God,
57:57.500 --> 57:58.620
57:58.620 --> 58:00.680
[voice cracking with emotion]
58:00.680 --> 58:04.240
I'm not gonna go out hiding my face."
58:04.240 --> 58:05.800
Nobody...
58:05.800 --> 58:07.900
nobody left by the side door.
58:07.900 --> 58:13.420
58:13.420 --> 58:17.520
The news coverage was picked up by the AP wire services
58:17.520 --> 58:19.720
and it went nationwide.
58:19.720 --> 58:24.820
Bill Larson was identified as being a homosexual pastor
58:24.820 --> 58:28.620
of a homosexual church.
58:28.620 --> 58:32.660
His mother was so horrified and shamed by the news coverage,
58:32.660 --> 58:35.260
that she refused to claim his body
58:35.260 --> 58:38.100
and take it home for burial.
58:38.100 --> 58:42.640
Ultimately, she released it to the Metropolitan Community Church.
58:42.640 --> 58:43.780
58:43.780 --> 58:45.660
There was not much left of his body
58:45.660 --> 58:48.260
so what was left of his body was cremated
58:48.260 --> 58:50.360
and the ashes were in an urn
58:50.360 --> 58:52.660
which they took back to their church.
58:52.660 --> 58:56.380
And for many years, that urn was housed in the altar
58:56.380 --> 59:00.620
that they used in the New Orleans chapter of the MCC,
59:00.620 --> 59:02.300
So that every time they had a service,
59:02.300 --> 59:06.680
people were literally saying prayers over his body.
59:06.680 --> 59:10.060
His remains now are in a vault
59:10.060 --> 59:13.160
donated by a member of the MCC,
59:13.160 --> 59:15.920
in the St. Roch Cemetery
59:15.920 --> 59:17.520
in New Orleans.
59:17.520 --> 59:19.780
He shares the space with other people.
59:19.780 --> 59:23.400
His name is not on the tablet on the outside.
59:23.400 --> 59:26.720
[solemn music]
59:26.720 --> 59:31.440
There were three victims of the fire whose bodies were never identified.
59:31.440 --> 59:33.160
There was a fourth victim,
59:33.160 --> 59:35.300
identified as Ferris LeBlanc,
59:35.300 --> 59:38.000
but his body was never claimed.
59:38.000 --> 59:39.540
59:39.540 --> 59:41.480
According to local laws,
59:41.480 --> 59:46.460
unclaimed bodies must be buried under the category of "indigents".
59:46.460 --> 59:49.420
And since Ferris LeBlanc was never claimed,
59:49.420 --> 59:52.560
and three other people were never identified,
59:52.560 --> 59:54.660
therefore couldn't be claimed,
59:54.660 --> 59:59.700
all four were buried in the New Orleans Pauper Cemetery.
59:59.700 --> 01:00:04.280
The MCC offered to pay for dignified burials for the men,
01:00:04.280 --> 01:00:08.040
but seeing that the church had no legal ties to the victims,
01:00:08.040 --> 01:00:10.860
the city refused to release the bodies.
01:00:10.860 --> 01:00:18.000
[somber music]
01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:22.680
Churches,
01:00:22.680 --> 01:00:25.480
People,
01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:28.660
Governments -
01:00:28.660 --> 01:00:32.340
Nobody gives a damn.
01:00:32.340 --> 01:00:34.000
Bodies burned so bad,
01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:37.340
that there was nothing left but the bones,
01:00:37.340 --> 01:00:41.440
and they were seared to the floor.
01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:43.800
What little flesh there was left on some of the bodies,
01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:45.440
the FBI come in...
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:46.880
It was so bad,
01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:49.360
they had to take the fingertips off the bodies.
01:00:49.360 --> 01:00:54.320
[crying]
01:00:54.320 --> 01:00:58.220
So bad, they had to take the jaws out of all the skulls.
01:00:58.220 --> 01:00:59.320
How do you like that?
01:00:59.320 --> 01:01:01.980
The last remaining thing you have that people can identify you by -
01:01:01.980 --> 01:01:04.340
your teeth?
01:01:04.340 --> 01:01:06.240
32 people.
01:01:06.240 --> 01:01:07.640
01:01:07.640 --> 01:01:09.940
But they were just queers, you know.
01:01:09.940 --> 01:01:12.280
[sobbing]
01:01:12.280 --> 01:01:15.820
I had never seen the worst in my life
01:01:15.820 --> 01:01:18.120
of human nature.
01:01:18.120 --> 01:01:19.520
01:01:19.520 --> 01:01:23.400
It wasn't that New Orleans was any worse than anywhere else.
01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:25.820
It could have been in any city,
01:01:25.820 --> 01:01:28.760
and it probably would have been that way,
01:01:28.760 --> 01:01:31.680
in that time period.
01:01:31.680 --> 01:01:33.160
I want to tell you something!
01:01:33.160 --> 01:01:34.860
I want you to remember that those 30 people
01:01:34.860 --> 01:01:39.160
In New Orleans were human beings before they were anything else!
01:01:39.160 --> 01:01:41.020
We don't know what happened yet.
01:01:41.020 --> 01:01:45.300
The police now are saying they don't find any evidence that it was arson,
01:01:45.300 --> 01:01:47.380
but I've heard that story before!
01:01:47.380 --> 01:01:49.600
I know good and well, that if there had been 50 or
01:01:49.600 --> 01:01:53.820
even 30 individuals who were prominent in the community in New Orleans,
01:01:53.820 --> 01:01:55.260
outside of our community,
01:01:55.260 --> 01:01:57.940
they would be turning that town upside down,
01:01:57.940 --> 01:01:59.740
trying to find out what happened!
01:01:59.740 --> 01:02:01.120
01:02:01.120 --> 01:02:06.500
Investigators began concentrating on the possibility of arson.
01:02:06.500 --> 01:02:10.820
The investigation revealed that the fire started on or near
01:02:10.820 --> 01:02:13.780
the 2nd and 3rd step of the stairwell
01:02:13.780 --> 01:02:17.240
leading up to the main entrance of the lounge.
01:02:17.240 --> 01:02:19.500
While examining the stairwell,
01:02:19.500 --> 01:02:23.380
Major Henry Morris recovered an empty can of lighter fluid
01:02:23.380 --> 01:02:26.020
at the base of the stairs.
01:02:26.020 --> 01:02:30.240
The wooden stairs had been covered in highly flammable carpet.
01:02:30.240 --> 01:02:35.940
It was installed before flammability standards were established in 1971.
01:02:35.940 --> 01:02:39.400
"The majority of fires are preventable."
01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:44.700
Drapery and highly combustible wood paneling used to decorate the stairwell
01:02:44.700 --> 01:02:47.400
provided even more fuel for the fire,
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:51.420
causing flames to race up the stairs toward the landing.
01:02:51.420 --> 01:02:54.620
By the time Luther Boggs opened the door,
01:02:54.620 --> 01:02:59.240
the stairwell was fully engulfed in flames.
01:02:59.240 --> 01:03:02.480
Once the blaze exploded into the lounge,
01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:06.580
the fire spread rapidly, at a very high temperature.
01:03:06.580 --> 01:03:12.940
This was evident by the extensive char left on the walls throughout the building.
01:03:12.940 --> 01:03:16.820
Accelerated by the combustible carpet and wooden panels,
01:03:16.820 --> 01:03:22.000
the fire's intensity was also fueled by the bar's distinctive decor,
01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:25.400
including the red rayon flocked wallpaper,
01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:28.580
posters and drapery.
01:03:28.580 --> 01:03:33.360
The fire blocked the only obvious way in and out of the bar.
01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:36.780
While there was a second exit located in the third room,
01:03:36.780 --> 01:03:38.380
the one leading to the roof,
01:03:38.380 --> 01:03:41.380
the exit was not obvious to patrons.
01:03:41.380 --> 01:03:45.380
The path to the door was obstructed by the stage and scenery.
01:03:45.380 --> 01:03:50.820
It would seem that only the bar manager knew of the door's existence.
01:03:50.820 --> 01:03:53.900
People searched for another way out.
01:03:53.900 --> 01:03:59.580
Many of the windows on the second floor were sealed over with wood paneling.
01:03:59.580 --> 01:04:02.940
Panic-stricken patrons ran to the remaining windows,
01:04:02.940 --> 01:04:04.760
ripped opened the wooden shutters
01:04:04.760 --> 01:04:06.440
and kicked out the glass,
01:04:06.440 --> 01:04:11.840
only to find their escape blocked by horizontal metal bars.
01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:15.600
Since the windows spanned nearly floor-to-ceiling,
01:04:15.600 --> 01:04:18.520
metal rods had been installed across each window
01:04:18.520 --> 01:04:21.720
as a safety precaution by previous tenants.
01:04:21.720 --> 01:04:25.120
They were installed to prevent people from falling through openings
01:04:25.120 --> 01:04:27.680
when the windows were raised.
01:04:27.680 --> 01:04:31.720
Ironically, a feature that was designed to keep people safe,
01:04:31.720 --> 01:04:34.300
wound up killing them.
01:04:34.300 --> 01:04:37.640
23 bodies were found next to the windows,
01:04:37.640 --> 01:04:40.680
stacked on top of each other.
01:04:40.680 --> 01:04:45.420
With a total of 13 engine companies and four ladder companies,
01:04:45.420 --> 01:04:47.140
the fire was brought under control
01:04:47.140 --> 01:04:50.620
within 15 minutes of the initial alarm.
01:04:50.620 --> 01:04:52.980
And despite their rescue efforts,
01:04:52.980 --> 01:04:54.980
the arsonist had ultimately caused
01:04:54.980 --> 01:04:58.820
the deadliest fire in New Orleans History.
01:04:58.820 --> 01:05:01.200
01:05:01.200 --> 01:05:05.840
But the identity of the arsonist remained a mystery.
01:05:05.840 --> 01:05:08.460
While there were several false confessions,
01:05:08.460 --> 01:05:10.860
the newspaper focused on one suspect
01:05:10.860 --> 01:05:14.380
who allegedly committed the crime.
01:05:14.380 --> 01:05:16.400
Investigators soon learned
01:05:16.400 --> 01:05:20.520
that the suspect was in California at the time of the fire,
01:05:20.520 --> 01:05:24.980
therefore, he was eliminated as a suspect.
01:05:24.980 --> 01:05:30.460
An anonymous letter was even sent to New Orleans Fire Chief William McCrossen,
01:05:30.460 --> 01:05:33.060
apologizing for the fire.
01:05:33.060 --> 01:05:37.300
But the investigation soon focused on an alleged hustler,
01:05:37.300 --> 01:05:39.480
who was identified by patrons as
01:05:39.480 --> 01:05:43.400
causing trouble in the bar earlier in the evening:
01:05:43.400 --> 01:05:47.300
26 year-old, Rodger Dale Nunez.
01:05:47.300 --> 01:05:48.880
According to reports,
01:05:48.880 --> 01:05:52.460
Rodger was irritating people in the bar.
01:05:52.460 --> 01:05:55.660
Michael Scarborough, an Up Stairs Lounge regular,
01:05:55.660 --> 01:05:58.700
grew weary of his obnoxious behavior.
01:05:58.700 --> 01:06:02.040
A confrontation soon followed.
01:06:02.040 --> 01:06:06.600
When Nunez approached his table and began harassing Scarborough,
01:06:06.600 --> 01:06:08.460
Michael jumped up from his chair,
01:06:08.460 --> 01:06:10.400
punched Nunez in the face,
01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:12.860
knocking him to the floor.
01:06:12.860 --> 01:06:16.120
According to Scarborough's statement to investigators,
01:06:16.120 --> 01:06:19.400
Rodger then looked up from the floor and said,
01:06:19.400 --> 01:06:22.680
"I'm going to burn you all out".
01:06:22.680 --> 01:06:24.680
After witnessing the altercation,
01:06:24.680 --> 01:06:31.100
Buddy Rasmussen instructed his bartender to kick Rodger out of the bar.
01:06:31.100 --> 01:06:32.920
There are a couple of things that might
01:06:32.920 --> 01:06:35.960
have led Rodger Nunez to start the fire.
01:06:35.960 --> 01:06:38.420
01:06:38.420 --> 01:06:42.800
One was, he was thrown out of the bar and was angry.
01:06:42.800 --> 01:06:49.080
The other, is that he seems to have suffered from,
01:06:49.080 --> 01:06:51.600
what we would now call, "internalized homophobia".
01:06:51.600 --> 01:06:57.640
In 1973, it was termed "sexual orientation disorder".
01:06:57.640 --> 01:06:59.400
01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:02.340
Someone who just
01:07:02.340 --> 01:07:07.260
was uncomfortable with or
01:07:07.260 --> 01:07:10.860
horrified by the fact that he was gay.
01:07:10.860 --> 01:07:14.340
So imagine for a moment, it's 1973.
01:07:14.340 --> 01:07:18.780
You come from a small town, deep in rural Louisiana.
01:07:18.780 --> 01:07:21.700
Your whole life you've been told by the church,
01:07:21.700 --> 01:07:23.400
by people at school,
01:07:23.400 --> 01:07:25.740
by medical professionals
01:07:25.740 --> 01:07:29.720
who still then regarded homosexuality as a mental disorder -
01:07:29.720 --> 01:07:31.500
Imagine you've been told that you're sick.
01:07:31.500 --> 01:07:32.960
That you're diseased.
01:07:32.960 --> 01:07:35.920
That you're morally unfit.
01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:39.700
And then you're in New Orleans
01:07:39.700 --> 01:07:44.480
and you're circulating in a more or less,
01:07:44.480 --> 01:07:48.260
openly gay environment
01:07:48.260 --> 01:07:50.840
and possibly, for the first time in your life,
01:07:50.840 --> 01:07:52.780
feeling really comfortable
01:07:52.780 --> 01:07:58.900
or getting to the point where you think you could maybe feel comfortable,
01:07:58.900 --> 01:08:03.520
being accepted by the "queers" and the "freaks",
01:08:03.520 --> 01:08:07.060
and then they throw you out.
01:08:07.060 --> 01:08:10.720
It's really easy to imagine
01:08:10.720 --> 01:08:14.300
him trying to strike back at people.
01:08:14.300 --> 01:08:15.440
01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:17.380
A few months after the fire,
01:08:17.380 --> 01:08:21.680
Rodger married a woman named Elaine.
01:08:21.680 --> 01:08:25.800
Even his marriage to her indicates internalized homophobia.
01:08:25.800 --> 01:08:28.400
First of all, it still happens today:
01:08:28.400 --> 01:08:31.180
that a lot of gay men try to cure themselves
01:08:31.180 --> 01:08:34.660
by entering into a heterosexual marriage.
01:08:34.660 --> 01:08:38.060
She was questioned by fire marshal investigators,
01:08:38.060 --> 01:08:42.500
at which point, she told them that their marriage had never been consummated,
01:08:42.500 --> 01:08:46.600
and that he admitted to her after they had gotten married,
01:08:46.600 --> 01:08:50.020
that he was homosexual.
01:08:50.020 --> 01:08:52.520
Rodger had a grand mal seizure
01:08:52.520 --> 01:08:55.700
during the first interrogation by the fire investigators,
01:08:55.700 --> 01:08:57.440
so he was brought to the hospital.
01:08:57.440 --> 01:08:59.440
That was a few days after the fire.
01:08:59.440 --> 01:09:03.920
The fire investigators did not interrogate him again until September 18th -
01:09:03.920 --> 01:09:05.900
almost two months after the fire.
01:09:05.900 --> 01:09:10.360
When the arson investigation team for the Fire Marshal's interviewed Rodger Nunez,
01:09:10.360 --> 01:09:12.040
they gave him a stress test.
01:09:12.040 --> 01:09:17.420
When he answered questions related to the fire
01:09:17.420 --> 01:09:20.660
and denied responsibility,
01:09:20.660 --> 01:09:24.960
the Dektor PSE showed signs of stress,
01:09:24.960 --> 01:09:28.980
which suggested he was lying when he said he knew nothing about the fire.
01:09:28.980 --> 01:09:29.660
01:09:29.660 --> 01:09:32.040
But it turns out, he also had a brain tumor.
01:09:32.040 --> 01:09:37.200
So I don't know if the grand mal seizure was a direct result of the brain tumor or not.
01:09:37.200 --> 01:09:40.760
I don't know if he had a brain tumor at the time, and that affected his judgment,
01:09:40.760 --> 01:09:43.640
and that's why he made such a poor judgment.
01:09:43.640 --> 01:09:47.840
He ended up committing suicide in November of 1974,
01:09:47.840 --> 01:09:52.120
and of course, there's no reason to know if that was because he felt guilt over the fire.
01:09:52.120 --> 01:09:54.420
He could have been distraught over the brain tumor.
01:09:54.420 --> 01:09:58.080
01:09:58.080 --> 01:10:03.560
I think that Rodger Nunez is the probable arsonist
01:10:03.560 --> 01:10:08.360
and my reason for believing that
01:10:08.360 --> 01:10:11.600
mostly has to do with
01:10:11.600 --> 01:10:14.260
the people who came forward after his death
01:10:14.260 --> 01:10:16.040
and said that when he was drunk,
01:10:16.040 --> 01:10:18.000
he would confess,
01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:20.720
and then when he was sober, he would retract.
01:10:20.720 --> 01:10:24.680
There's an old saying, it goes back to the ancient Romans:
01:10:24.680 --> 01:10:26.780
"In Vino Veritas" -
01:10:26.780 --> 01:10:29.600
"In Wine There Is Truth".
01:10:29.600 --> 01:10:32.620
There's something about alcohol
01:10:32.620 --> 01:10:34.500
that lowers inhibitions
01:10:34.500 --> 01:10:37.760
and makes people
01:10:37.760 --> 01:10:39.860
want to unburden themselves.
01:10:39.860 --> 01:10:41.120
01:10:41.120 --> 01:10:46.360
But, I do not believe
01:10:46.360 --> 01:10:49.640
that the person who did this,
01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:51.760
when they set this fire,
01:10:51.760 --> 01:10:55.580
had ANY
01:10:55.580 --> 01:10:58.940
idea,
01:10:58.940 --> 01:11:02.500
notwithstanding what they may have said before,
01:11:02.500 --> 01:11:04.600
that it would do what it did!
01:11:04.600 --> 01:11:07.580
01:11:07.580 --> 01:11:09.560
I just can't believe it.
01:11:09.560 --> 01:11:10.240
01:11:10.240 --> 01:11:15.060
The fire was started by a can of Ronsonol lighter fluid.
01:11:15.060 --> 01:11:18.120
It was apparently purchased at a Walgreens drugstore
01:11:18.120 --> 01:11:21.000
a block away from the Up Stairs Lounge.
01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:22.420
At the time,
01:11:22.420 --> 01:11:24.880
Ronsonol was sold in three sizes:
01:11:24.880 --> 01:11:26.400
a four and a half ounce can,
01:11:26.400 --> 01:11:27.480
a seven ounce can
01:11:27.480 --> 01:11:29.560
and a twelve ounce can.
01:11:29.560 --> 01:11:34.140
The clerk at the tobacco counter reported this young man,
01:11:34.140 --> 01:11:35.960
who she described,
01:11:35.960 --> 01:11:37.060
physically it was a match,
01:11:37.060 --> 01:11:40.840
and she described him looking very nervous and distraught.
01:11:40.840 --> 01:11:44.780
And he was looking for the four and a half ounce can
01:11:44.780 --> 01:11:46.280
and there weren't any on the shelves,
01:11:46.280 --> 01:11:48.080
and she said they were out of stock.
01:11:48.080 --> 01:11:53.940
So she sold this young man a seven ounce can of lighter fluid instead.
01:11:53.940 --> 01:11:58.360
If you were intending to start a fire and hurt people,
01:11:58.360 --> 01:12:05.100
you wouldn't be looking for the smallest size can of lighter fluid.
01:12:05.100 --> 01:12:07.800
And when Miss Fury
01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:10.160
told the writer Johnny Townsend,
01:12:10.160 --> 01:12:13.100
that Rodger had confessed to her
01:12:13.100 --> 01:12:15.480
that he had set the fire,
01:12:15.480 --> 01:12:17.180
she said that he was weeping
01:12:17.180 --> 01:12:19.240
and said over and over,
01:12:19.240 --> 01:12:20.570
that he didn't mean to do it.
01:12:20.570 --> 01:12:23.220
He just wanted to scare people.
01:12:23.220 --> 01:12:28.600
And that's consistent with a man looking for the smallest size can of lighter fluid.
01:12:28.600 --> 01:12:31.040
01:12:31.040 --> 01:12:34.260
What he didn't know,
01:12:34.260 --> 01:12:36.660
was that the carpet
01:12:36.660 --> 01:12:39.080
was basically a firebomb waiting to happen,
01:12:39.080 --> 01:12:42.400
under the right circumstances.
01:12:42.400 --> 01:12:45.760
And that the lighter fluid, in a stairwell
01:12:45.760 --> 01:12:47.940
that acted as a chimney flue,
01:12:47.940 --> 01:12:53.280
would create exactly the set of circumstances needed
01:12:53.280 --> 01:12:55.740
to cause the damage that he did.
01:12:55.740 --> 01:12:58.520
Now there's no way he could have known that.
01:12:58.520 --> 01:13:02.280
So I think Rodger Nunez is responsible for the fire,
01:13:02.280 --> 01:13:08.100
but I also think the fire was just a childish prank gone hideously wrong.
01:13:08.100 --> 01:13:10.500
01:13:10.500 --> 01:13:15.020
I can forgive him for
01:13:15.020 --> 01:13:17.360
what he did, because,
01:13:17.360 --> 01:13:19.060
you know, like Jesus said,
01:13:19.060 --> 01:13:21.980
"they know not what they do".
01:13:21.980 --> 01:13:25.380
And I don't think he really knew what the consequences would be.
01:13:25.380 --> 01:13:27.940
He never really knew
01:13:27.940 --> 01:13:29.480
how many people he would hurt
01:13:29.480 --> 01:13:31.400
or how many lives he would touch.
01:13:31.400 --> 01:13:33.780
01:13:33.780 --> 01:13:35.660
It's difficult.
01:13:35.660 --> 01:13:37.230
01:13:37.230 --> 01:13:41.360
But again, the man was sick.
01:13:41.360 --> 01:13:43.920
He has to have been sick!
01:13:43.920 --> 01:13:44.840
01:13:44.840 --> 01:13:47.760
But absolutely somewhere,
01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:49.760
you have to have forgiveness,
01:13:49.760 --> 01:13:52.080
and we will never know who did it, but if he did,
01:13:52.080 --> 01:13:54.600
of course he's forgiven.
01:13:54.600 --> 01:13:57.100
It'll never help bring back the dead
01:13:57.100 --> 01:13:59.040
and he's dead too.
01:13:59.040 --> 01:14:00.960
If he's the one who did it,
01:14:00.960 --> 01:14:05.400
he was the 33rd person to die as a result of that fire,
01:14:05.400 --> 01:14:07.800
and we have to remember that.
01:14:07.800 --> 01:14:10.200
01:14:10.200 --> 01:14:15.960
The memorial service did not end my grieving process.
01:14:15.960 --> 01:14:18.900
Something happened to me, personally, you know.
01:14:18.900 --> 01:14:22.580
Losing a family.
01:14:22.580 --> 01:14:25.280
A walking nervous breakdown.
01:14:25.280 --> 01:14:28.260
Things happened to people
01:14:28.260 --> 01:14:29.860
after the fire -
01:14:29.860 --> 01:14:33.440
the people that survived
01:14:33.440 --> 01:14:35.240
and the friends of people -
01:14:35.240 --> 01:14:41.320
the friends who were friends of the survivors and of the dead,
01:14:41.320 --> 01:14:43.480
They had to deal with it in their own way.
01:14:43.480 --> 01:14:44.420
01:14:44.420 --> 01:14:45.960
I drank a lot.
01:14:45.960 --> 01:14:47.960
That helped me get through it.
01:14:47.960 --> 01:14:51.460
I think I drank rum every day, for like two years.
01:14:51.460 --> 01:14:53.780
I would get up and get ready and go to work or on my lunch hour
01:14:53.780 --> 01:14:58.000
I'd go have a couple of rum and Cokes and then go back to work and then I'd go home and have a couple more
01:14:58.000 --> 01:15:02.160
rum and Cokes, and watch TV until I fell asleep.
01:15:02.160 --> 01:15:06.080
And I had several people who had approached me during that time to go on dates and stuff,
01:15:06.080 --> 01:15:07.640
and I wouldn't do it because I felt like
01:15:07.640 --> 01:15:09.580
if I got close to somebody,
01:15:09.580 --> 01:15:10.820
I would have to go through that again.
01:15:10.820 --> 01:15:12.920
He might die and I'd have to go through it again.
01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:13.420
01:15:13.420 --> 01:15:15.540
I'd try to sleep at night.
01:15:15.540 --> 01:15:17.360
I'd wake up with nightmares.
01:15:17.360 --> 01:15:20.020
I'd see those people burning again, you know.
01:15:20.020 --> 01:15:21.380
01:15:21.380 --> 01:15:24.160
We were damaged emotionally.
01:15:24.160 --> 01:15:24.800
01:15:24.800 --> 01:15:27.960
Like I say, I feel like I've been...
01:15:27.960 --> 01:15:30.540
been robbed and cheated,
01:15:30.540 --> 01:15:32.520
because I missed all his life.
01:15:32.520 --> 01:15:33.100
01:15:33.100 --> 01:15:35.460
I used to be kind of angry with God,
01:15:35.460 --> 01:15:38.100
just not long afterward, thinking,
01:15:38.100 --> 01:15:39.320
"Why did you save ...
01:15:39.320 --> 01:15:40.140
Why am I..
01:15:40.140 --> 01:15:41.800
Why do I have to go through...?"
01:15:41.800 --> 01:15:46.360
I mean, I went through emotions like the rest of us did,
01:15:46.360 --> 01:15:47.980
just heavy emotions.
01:15:47.980 --> 01:15:49.920
And I'd tell God,
01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:52.940
I said, "Thank you. You saved my life."
01:15:52.940 --> 01:15:55.720
"Thank you for not letting me burn up."
01:15:55.720 --> 01:15:58.300
And I'd say, "but next time,
01:15:58.300 --> 01:16:00.080
just let me die".
01:16:00.080 --> 01:16:02.620
01:16:02.620 --> 01:16:05.820
The fire affected Phil tremendously.
01:16:05.820 --> 01:16:08.460
Emotionally, because he lost a lot of friends,
01:16:08.460 --> 01:16:10.460
but it also affected him financially
01:16:10.460 --> 01:16:12.380
for the next 10 or 11 years.
01:16:12.380 --> 01:16:16.140
He fought legal battles constantly.
01:16:16.140 --> 01:16:17.940
It basically bankrupted him.
01:16:17.940 --> 01:16:18.680
01:16:18.680 --> 01:16:23.620
Many of the people who were survivors or their families of the people who died,
01:16:23.620 --> 01:16:25.200
tried to sue Phil Esteve
01:16:25.200 --> 01:16:27.200
and they tried to sue the city,
01:16:27.200 --> 01:16:29.800
but the the verdict was finally,
01:16:29.800 --> 01:16:31.600
it wasn't the city's fault that the bar burned,
01:16:31.600 --> 01:16:34.080
and it wasn't Phil Esteve's fault that the bar burned,
01:16:34.080 --> 01:16:36.340
it was the arsonist's fault that the bar burned.
01:16:36.340 --> 01:16:38.310
01:16:38.310 --> 01:16:40.760
The status of the case, I suppose
01:16:40.760 --> 01:16:43.860
based on the New Orleans Police Department's case files,
01:16:43.860 --> 01:16:46.360
is it's closed.
01:16:46.360 --> 01:16:51.780
They basically closed it on August 30th of 1973
01:16:51.780 --> 01:16:56.700
and there's no indication that they've ever continued it since then.
01:16:56.700 --> 01:17:00.620
The question that sticks in my mind is
01:17:00.620 --> 01:17:04.440
why the police stopped their investigation when they did.
01:17:04.440 --> 01:17:08.120
And the police, by the way, never questioned the man they had identified as the suspect.
01:17:08.120 --> 01:17:10.720
The fire marshal investigation team did,
01:17:10.720 --> 01:17:13.200
but the police never did.
01:17:13.200 --> 01:17:14.020
01:17:14.020 --> 01:17:17.740
I think the police could have made more of an effort to find out who did it,
01:17:17.740 --> 01:17:19.940
whether it was Rodger or someone else.
01:17:19.940 --> 01:17:23.080
There could have at least had been an arrest that made an attempt.
01:17:23.080 --> 01:17:25.400
I think the gay community
01:17:25.400 --> 01:17:26.610
would have
01:17:26.610 --> 01:17:30.720
been able to overcome this tragedy better,
01:17:30.720 --> 01:17:34.100
if they had felt there was a good faith effort
01:17:34.100 --> 01:17:36.000
at capturing the person who was responsible,
01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:37.400
and I don't think that happened.
01:17:37.400 --> 01:17:38.080
01:17:38.080 --> 01:17:42.620
The arson investigation unit of the State Fire Marshal
01:17:42.620 --> 01:17:46.040
continued pursuing the case until 1980,
01:17:46.040 --> 01:17:52.320
at which point, the man, who I believe then was State Fire Marshall Frank Locascio Jr.,
01:17:52.320 --> 01:17:55.060
basically closed it for the team,
01:17:55.060 --> 01:17:57.560
recognizing that
01:17:57.560 --> 01:17:59.420
the suspect was dead -
01:17:59.420 --> 01:18:03.100
had been dead for six years by that point.
01:18:03.100 --> 01:18:07.340
That no one was going to come forward with any information
01:18:07.340 --> 01:18:09.020
to further solidify the case
01:18:09.020 --> 01:18:10.780
and even if they did,
01:18:10.780 --> 01:18:13.380
how do you try a dead suspect?
01:18:13.380 --> 01:18:16.500
So, it was officially closed.
01:18:16.500 --> 01:18:17.460
01:18:17.460 --> 01:18:21.580
The Up Stairs Lounge fire forced New Orleans to acknowledge,
01:18:21.580 --> 01:18:23.520
yes, we do have a gay community here.
01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:25.200
It's something everybody knew,
01:18:25.200 --> 01:18:28.780
but something nobody ever talked about.
01:18:28.780 --> 01:18:30.540
Two months after the fire or three months,
01:18:30.540 --> 01:18:34.020
in September of 1973,
01:18:34.020 --> 01:18:36.240
The arch-conservative, Times-Picayune,
01:18:36.240 --> 01:18:38.820
ran a week-long series of articles
01:18:38.820 --> 01:18:40.800
that focused on the gay community
01:18:40.800 --> 01:18:44.120
and the very first one had a headline that read,
01:18:44.120 --> 01:18:48.620
"Gay Community Surfaces In Fire Tragedy",
01:18:48.620 --> 01:18:50.200
or something to that effect.
01:18:50.200 --> 01:18:54.600
There were in-depth articles about "what does it mean to be gay?"
01:18:54.600 --> 01:18:57.020
And "what does it mean to be gay in New Orleans"?
01:18:57.020 --> 01:18:58.600
And I don't think that would have happened
01:18:58.600 --> 01:19:01.140
had it not been for the Up Stairs Lounge fire.
01:19:01.140 --> 01:19:04.020
The fire definitely changed my
01:19:04.020 --> 01:19:06.000
personal view point,
01:19:06.000 --> 01:19:08.760
my perspective on gay people,
01:19:08.760 --> 01:19:10.460
because,
01:19:10.460 --> 01:19:14.680
I don't know that I ever really knew anyone up close
01:19:14.680 --> 01:19:16.760
who was gay.
01:19:16.760 --> 01:19:18.000
The first thing it taught me is that
01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:20.100
these are human beings and they're suffering.
01:19:20.100 --> 01:19:23.980
They bleed like I do. They hurt like I do.
01:19:23.980 --> 01:19:26.280
And..
01:19:26.280 --> 01:19:29.360
sometimes you need to have your eyes opened
01:19:29.360 --> 01:19:32.040
to have your heart opened as well,
01:19:32.040 --> 01:19:34.740
and it brought home their humanity to me
01:19:34.740 --> 01:19:37.500
in a way that, you know,
01:19:37.500 --> 01:19:40.780
I don't know when that would have happened otherwise.
01:19:40.780 --> 01:19:45.460
Whether or not the Up Stairs Lounge launched
01:19:45.460 --> 01:19:47.880
the gay rights movement in New Orleans,
01:19:47.880 --> 01:19:50.320
is a matter of fierce debate
01:19:50.320 --> 01:19:52.720
among New Orleans gay activists,
01:19:52.720 --> 01:19:57.400
and I spoke to people on both sides of that question.
01:19:57.400 --> 01:19:58.660
01:19:58.660 --> 01:20:02.020
Some people say yes, it absolutely did.
01:20:02.020 --> 01:20:06.260
It raised consciousness. It got people organized.
01:20:06.260 --> 01:20:09.520
Language to that effect, is in the memorial plaque
01:20:09.520 --> 01:20:12.960
that's in the sidewalk outside of the bar.
01:20:12.960 --> 01:20:17.800
The plaque indicates that the fire was responsible for
01:20:17.800 --> 01:20:22.000
getting an LGBT rights movement going in New Orleans.
01:20:22.000 --> 01:20:24.200
A number of other people argue
01:20:24.200 --> 01:20:26.860
that it wasn't the Up Stairs fire at all.
01:20:26.860 --> 01:20:28.780
That
01:20:28.780 --> 01:20:33.220
concentrated sustained activism
01:20:33.220 --> 01:20:37.940
didn't get started in New Orleans for another four years,
01:20:37.940 --> 01:20:39.800
until 1977.
01:20:39.800 --> 01:20:42.840
And what happened in 1977,
01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:44.900
was Anita Bryant had been booked
01:20:44.900 --> 01:20:50.740
to perform in the New Orleans Summer Pops Symphony concert.
01:20:50.740 --> 01:20:54.340
The city's gay and lesbian population
01:20:54.340 --> 01:21:00.000
turned out in the thousands to protest her performance.
01:21:00.000 --> 01:21:04.560
Some people say that that, is really the start
01:21:04.560 --> 01:21:08.960
of sustained, organized gay activism in New Orleans.
01:21:08.960 --> 01:21:11.020
01:21:11.020 --> 01:21:14.220
For decades, on the anniversary of the fire,
01:21:14.220 --> 01:21:15.480
efforts have been made
01:21:15.480 --> 01:21:18.500
to honor the dead and promote healing.
01:21:18.500 --> 01:21:22.520
Some anniversaries have been more visible than others.
01:21:22.520 --> 01:21:26.180
A permanent historical marker was enshrined in the sidewalk
01:21:26.180 --> 01:21:29.360
outside the former entrance of the Up Stairs Lounge
01:21:29.360 --> 01:21:33.240
during the 30th Anniversary in 2003.
01:21:33.240 --> 01:21:34.840
01:21:34.840 --> 01:21:37.860
City officials in 1973,
01:21:37.860 --> 01:21:42.760
didn't want to acknowledge it had taken place.
01:21:42.760 --> 01:21:48.780
In 2013, on the 40th Anniversary of the fire,
01:21:48.780 --> 01:21:53.020
Mayor Mitch Landrieu, son of Mayor Moon Landrieu,
01:21:53.020 --> 01:21:56.180
who had been mayor in 1973,
01:21:56.180 --> 01:21:58.980
proclaimed a day for the Up Stairs victims.
01:21:58.980 --> 01:21:59.920
01:21:59.920 --> 01:22:02.720
I believe that the memorial provided
01:22:02.720 --> 01:22:06.020
a large measure of healing for the community.
01:22:06.020 --> 01:22:10.760
For the ones who hated to talk about it
01:22:10.760 --> 01:22:13.800
because of the hurt and loss that they suffered.
01:22:13.800 --> 01:22:16.480
Some of them were able to attend the memorial.
01:22:16.480 --> 01:22:20.300
It was an odd mixture of both tragedy and triumph.
01:22:20.300 --> 01:22:21.500
We were there to commemorate.
01:22:21.500 --> 01:22:22.940
We were there to remember
01:22:22.940 --> 01:22:25.120
and there to honor.
01:22:25.120 --> 01:22:28.140
[Reading of the victims' names]
01:22:28.140 --> 01:22:31.740
And it was a very solemn occasion,
01:22:31.740 --> 01:22:34.060
but at the same time,
01:22:34.060 --> 01:22:38.540
there was also great joy in just reveling in the progress
01:22:38.540 --> 01:22:40.640
we have made as a community,
01:22:40.640 --> 01:22:42.060
and yet with a tinge of regret
01:22:42.060 --> 01:22:45.120
that these 32 people weren't there to see it.
01:22:45.120 --> 01:22:49.140
[Jazz Procession Music]
01:22:49.140 --> 01:22:51.380
01:22:51.380 --> 01:22:57.140
I felt that the victims were finally getting some recognition
01:22:57.140 --> 01:23:03.360
that hadn't yet been fully forthcoming.
01:23:03.360 --> 01:23:06.740
If I was up there, I'd say, "wow it's about time".
01:23:06.740 --> 01:23:11.800
[Laughter]
01:23:11.800 --> 01:23:13.540
Uh,
01:23:13.540 --> 01:23:15.620
truly.
01:23:15.620 --> 01:23:17.600
About time.
01:23:17.600 --> 01:23:19.100
01:23:19.100 --> 01:23:22.820
In 2013, when Gregory Aymond,
01:23:22.820 --> 01:23:26.340
the sitting Archbishop,
01:23:26.340 --> 01:23:30.060
finally released a statement about the fire at the Up Stairs Lounge,
01:23:30.060 --> 01:23:32.140
I had kind of mixed feelings.
01:23:32.140 --> 01:23:34.080
On one hand,
01:23:34.080 --> 01:23:38.600
he was acknowledging that the church should have made a statement
01:23:38.600 --> 01:23:40.300
at the time,
01:23:40.300 --> 01:23:44.500
to acknowledge the sufferings and the victims and their families.
01:23:44.500 --> 01:23:46.060
On the other hand,
01:23:46.060 --> 01:23:48.920
his statement was very heavily qualified.
01:23:48.920 --> 01:23:52.900
He said, "if" we did not release a statement at the time.
01:23:52.900 --> 01:23:55.560
Well, there's no "if" about it.
01:23:55.560 --> 01:24:01.340
So when people apologize, but the word "if" occurs,
01:24:01.340 --> 01:24:03.740
it's kind of a non-apology.
01:24:03.740 --> 01:24:06.800
I would have been more impressed if
01:24:06.800 --> 01:24:10.500
any members of the Chancery of the Archdiocese
01:24:10.500 --> 01:24:12.180
from that time period,
01:24:12.180 --> 01:24:13.660
would have come up and said,
01:24:13.660 --> 01:24:16.980
"we were wrong".
01:24:16.980 --> 01:24:19.020
That would have impressed me.
01:24:19.020 --> 01:24:21.040
01:24:21.040 --> 01:24:23.880
But not a vacant, "we were wrong",
01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:25.340
Not a, you know,
01:24:25.340 --> 01:24:28.280
an empty mea culpa.
01:24:28.280 --> 01:24:30.180
And I believe the Archbishop,
01:24:30.180 --> 01:24:32.780
for me, the Archbishop made just a very,
01:24:32.780 --> 01:24:35.100
a very empty motion.
01:24:35.100 --> 01:24:39.080
It was a sad, very sad day for a lot of people
01:24:39.080 --> 01:24:41.440
when the Roman Catholic Archdiocese
01:24:41.440 --> 01:24:43.740
failed to respond.
01:24:43.740 --> 01:24:46.280
01:24:46.280 --> 01:24:49.860
And another good thing I think the Archbishop could have said is,
01:24:49.860 --> 01:24:52.040
"We will not do this in the future.
01:24:52.040 --> 01:24:54.520
We will not prejudge people
01:24:54.520 --> 01:24:56.500
simply because they
01:24:56.500 --> 01:24:58.320
01:24:58.320 --> 01:25:02.900
were in a place we did not necessarily frequent ourselves."
01:25:02.900 --> 01:25:05.320
01:25:05.320 --> 01:25:07.380
Simply say, "we will not do this again".
01:25:07.380 --> 01:25:10.000
Had he said that,
01:25:10.000 --> 01:25:11.920
that might have impressed me.
01:25:11.920 --> 01:25:13.960
01:25:13.960 --> 01:25:16.700
These people lost their lives
01:25:16.700 --> 01:25:18.760
and their friends
01:25:18.760 --> 01:25:20.120
and their lovers
01:25:20.120 --> 01:25:23.660
and there are families who lost people they loved.
01:25:23.660 --> 01:25:27.640
They took a lot of love out of the world.
01:25:27.640 --> 01:25:30.480
I don't think that's ever good to take love out of the world.
01:25:30.480 --> 01:25:32.840
He left a void in a lot of people's lives.
01:25:32.840 --> 01:25:34.020
01:25:34.020 --> 01:25:37.600
I live with what happened to my Dad every day!
01:25:37.600 --> 01:25:39.460
01:25:39.460 --> 01:25:43.100
I believe my Dad was stuck in two worlds:
01:25:43.100 --> 01:25:45.720
He wanted this world with us
01:25:45.720 --> 01:25:48.080
and he wanted that world too,
01:25:48.080 --> 01:25:51.600
and I think he got caught between.
01:25:51.600 --> 01:25:53.720
Because, I mean,
01:25:53.720 --> 01:25:56.960
he always told Horace he would come back down to him,
01:25:56.960 --> 01:25:59.600
when he went back to Alabama.
01:25:59.600 --> 01:26:00.840
01:26:00.840 --> 01:26:03.380
I believe my Dad loved Horace, I really do.
01:26:03.380 --> 01:26:05.880
They were both good people -
01:26:05.880 --> 01:26:07.440
Caring,
01:26:07.440 --> 01:26:10.120
very caring,
01:26:10.120 --> 01:26:13.940
very loving people,
01:26:13.940 --> 01:26:16.600
and then had their love took away.
01:26:16.600 --> 01:26:19.560
01:26:19.560 --> 01:26:21.480
Reggie gave me the name "Regina".
01:26:21.480 --> 01:26:22.840
When I first did the drag show,
01:26:22.840 --> 01:26:26.840
I was trying to think of a name to use on stage.
01:26:26.840 --> 01:26:29.740
His name was Reginald Eugene Adams.
01:26:29.740 --> 01:26:32.180
He knew Latin. He said it meant "queen".
01:26:32.180 --> 01:26:34.740
He said I got the perfect name for you. It's "Regina".
01:26:34.740 --> 01:26:37.860
He said you'll be Regina, because you're a queen.
01:26:37.860 --> 01:26:39.940
You'll always be my queen.
01:26:39.940 --> 01:26:41.720
So when he died, I said,
01:26:41.720 --> 01:26:44.500
"'You'll always be with me",
01:26:44.500 --> 01:26:48.380
and I legally changed my name to "Regina Adams"
01:26:48.380 --> 01:26:49.480
because of him,
01:26:49.480 --> 01:26:53.560
because he's the one true love of my life.
01:26:53.560 --> 01:26:57.360
I still pray and I still remember him in my prayers
01:26:57.360 --> 01:26:58.760
and I still talk to him and
01:26:58.760 --> 01:27:00.220
I still tell him I love him,
01:27:00.220 --> 01:27:01.860
and I will see you someday.
01:27:01.860 --> 01:27:03.820
I'll be with you.
01:27:03.820 --> 01:27:06.460
01:27:06.460 --> 01:27:08.020
I just think that
01:27:08.020 --> 01:27:10.420
there would have been a lot more
01:27:10.420 --> 01:27:12.560
success stories like those,
01:27:12.560 --> 01:27:15.100
as far as long-term relationships.
01:27:15.100 --> 01:27:18.040
People think, oh, it was a sleazy, seedy bar in the French Quarter
01:27:18.040 --> 01:27:20.180
and people were just having sex with everybody,
01:27:20.180 --> 01:27:23.080
but I think,
01:27:23.080 --> 01:27:25.240
if given the opportunity,
01:27:25.240 --> 01:27:28.560
we'd have seen more love come out of that
01:27:28.560 --> 01:27:30.620
and I think that's part of the tragedy here,
01:27:30.620 --> 01:27:35.060
is that those relationships never had a chance.
01:27:35.060 --> 01:27:38.720
These were real people who had lives,
01:27:38.720 --> 01:27:42.620
and it just doesn't seem right to not remember them.
01:27:42.620 --> 01:27:44.440
01:27:44.440 --> 01:27:47.880
If I could say something to him right now,
01:27:47.880 --> 01:27:50.360
01:27:50.360 --> 01:27:53.240
I would say, "Dad,
01:27:53.240 --> 01:27:55.620
I hope I turned out as good as you.
01:27:55.620 --> 01:27:58.560
I...I hope I turned out...
01:27:58.560 --> 01:28:00.720
that you're not ashamed of me.
01:28:00.720 --> 01:28:02.960
01:28:02.960 --> 01:28:05.280
And that I still miss you.
01:28:05.280 --> 01:28:06.480
01:28:06.480 --> 01:28:09.520
And I still love you.
01:28:09.520 --> 01:28:12.340
01:28:12.340 --> 01:28:16.200
And I hope my family
01:28:16.200 --> 01:28:17.760
has turned out, you know,
01:28:17.760 --> 01:28:20.120
to make you proud.
01:28:20.120 --> 01:28:22.000
Because you make me proud.
01:28:22.000 --> 01:28:22.720
01:28:22.720 --> 01:28:25.400
[choking back tears]
01:28:25.400 --> 01:28:26.000
01:28:26.000 --> 01:28:28.980
You make me proud."
01:28:28.980 --> 01:28:30.600
01:28:30.600 --> 01:28:35.620
It's just important for people to know what hatred and anger can do.
01:28:35.620 --> 01:28:37.400
You know, it can kill people.
01:28:37.400 --> 01:28:38.940
Lots of people.
01:28:38.940 --> 01:28:41.800
You know, it could cause a lot of harm.
01:28:41.800 --> 01:28:45.840
You know, people suffering because their loved ones were killed,
01:28:45.840 --> 01:28:48.780
because of anger and hatred.
01:28:48.780 --> 01:28:51.780
And so, it's got to be told.
01:28:51.780 --> 01:28:53.880
It's got to be, like,
01:28:53.880 --> 01:28:56.500
up in people's faces, so to speak,
01:28:56.500 --> 01:28:59.700
to where they have to recognize it
01:28:59.700 --> 01:29:03.880
and realize "hey, as a society, we have to change,
01:29:03.880 --> 01:29:05.820
and guard ourselves,
01:29:05.820 --> 01:29:08.380
so that we don't allow this to happen."
01:29:08.380 --> 01:29:09.860
01:29:09.860 --> 01:29:11.480
So,
01:29:11.480 --> 01:29:13.480
it is one of those things that happened,
01:29:13.480 --> 01:29:15.900
that, um,
01:29:15.900 --> 01:29:18.820
I hope will NEVER be repeated again.
01:29:18.820 --> 01:29:22.300
I hope nobody EVER has to live through what we did
01:29:22.300 --> 01:29:26.160
and what we saw, when we went to New Orleans, Louisiana.
01:29:26.160 --> 01:29:28.980
Never again, will I,
01:29:28.980 --> 01:29:29.920
you know,
01:29:29.920 --> 01:29:32.040
face that kind of stuff -
01:29:32.040 --> 01:29:33.020
I hope not!
01:29:33.020 --> 01:29:35.140
I pray not.
01:29:35.140 --> 01:29:37.140
But if it does happen,
01:29:37.140 --> 01:29:39.600
[voice cracking]
01:29:39.600 --> 01:29:41.640
Don't give up the struggle and the fight,
01:29:41.640 --> 01:29:42.900
as I tell people.
01:29:42.900 --> 01:29:44.420
Go and bury our dead,
01:29:44.420 --> 01:29:46.860
hold a service,
01:29:46.860 --> 01:29:51.920
and get ready to still make a difference in this world!
01:29:51.920 --> 01:29:55.220
01:29:55.220 --> 01:30:01.040
[mournful cello music]
01:30:01.040 --> 01:32:29.800
01:32:29.840 --> 01:32:34.820
[Song: "Upstairs Inferno", by Rachel Panay]
01:32:34.820 --> 01:36:44.340
113650
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