All language subtitles for Saxophone.Colossus.1986.1080p.WEBRip.x264.AAC-[YTS.MX].eng

- Before a concert
I try to meditate

on what I have to do,
I try to block out

any extraneous thoughts.

I try to think about what
it's going to be like,

I try to will the
band to sound good.

I try to act in a positive way,

and I try to create a
picture of what I hope

is going to happen on the stage.

So it's sort of a
meditation, in a way,

prior to performing.

[upbeat jazz music]

[crowd applauding]

Of course, I was born here,
number one, in Harlem,

and the great excitement
here in New York, of course.

I always felt New York was
the center of a lot of music,

at least during the time
when I was growing up.

52nd Street was where
everybody was playing

and I had a chance to

really hear some of
the great musicians.

And you know, there's
just the energy,

the wonderful energy that is
in New York and nowhere else.

- My first memories of
Sonny Rollins is when he

recorded with J.J
Johnson for Prestige.

I had been hearing
about him a little bit,

they kept saying there's
this tenor player up town

who's really upsetting everybody

and I heard that some of the
test pressings on this date

and was kind of impressed
and was told about him

in the studio,
they way he stood,

I guess he impressed
this friend of mine

who had seen him and that
he really assumed the very

planted stance and
dug in and just blew.

I guess the first reaction
to hearing him in person was,

and also on that
record was that,

here was a guy who had
heard Charlie Parker

and was putting that
kind of knowledge

into the tenor saxophone
differently, say,

than Dexter Gordon, who was
acknowledged to be the first

to translate Charlie
Parker's mode to the tenor.

Because at that time, people
were very rigid and they said,

"Oh yes, you can sound like
that on alto, like Bird,

"but you can't play
like that on tenor."

And each little step of
the way had to be won

in people's minds.

Sonny, even in his rawest
period, in that first period

when a lot of critics
were putting him down,

I felt he had something very,
very personal and unique

to say and certainly he was
not the polished Sonny Rollins

that he would become
after the Chicago period

and coming back with Max
Roach and Clifford Brown

and really turning
everyone's heads arounds,

that's when he really
established himself.

But I feel all through
the earlier period,

'51 through '53, he played
a lot of valuable music

as we know from
listening to the records.

- I started listening to
Sonny in 1965 and 1966,

and the thing that
hit me the most

was the extraordinary
personal authority of the man

in the way he played, in the
way he addressed the audience,

in the way he addressed
the piece of music.

The incident at Saugerties
where he jumped off the cliff

is not uncharacteristic of
Sonny because he always had

a very strong visual sense,
he's a performer who likes to

keep the audience entertained.

I remember the one time
there was a concert in '66

called Titans of the Tenor
that he shared a bill on

with Coleman Hawkins, Zoot
Sims, and John Coltrane,

and Dave Lampert was
the MC and he said,

"And now Sonny Rollins,"

and a much shorter
fellow walked out,

it was Yusef Lateef, whom
Sonny had just convinced

to come along for the
gig, who was not billed,

and after Yusef
played several chords,

Sonny walked out, all in black,

black Keds sneakers, black
pants, black T-shirt,

walked straight to
the back of the stage,

and started to improvise
chords behind Lateef

and then came up for,
I think he was playing

Hold 'Em Joe with Calypso,

and then went into
a whole incredible

15, 20 minute solo thing.

And the control of
the horn, the time,

the phrasing,
everything about it

just held you in your seat.

And so even if you were a
novice, as I was at that time,

there was something about
Rollins that was so compelling

that you understood him.

I never understood,
I used to see reviews

where people would
talk about him being

too complex or intellectual

and the great
thing about Rollins

is that he is a communicator,
he always tells a story.

I think he's the most
compelling tenor saxophonist

we have right now.

- Whenever talking
about Sonny Rollins

I almost feel the need to
preface anything I might say

by pointing out that
I consider him to be

the greatest living
jazz improvisor.

Of course, that puts
the standards higher

by which you have to
judge Sonny Rollins

and you can only
imagine the standards

by which he must judge himself.

Play time for us is
work time for him.

We just go to
enjoy his concerts.

To him it means something
else, something much greater

seems to be a stake and I
think some of that tension

communicates itself
to an audience

and it becomes
pretty fascinating.

- I dropped out of
the jazz scene in 1959

which was more well known,

that was the bridge period

when I practiced on
the bridge for a while.

As you know, I'm always
trying to improve myself

and I'm partly a
self-taught musician

and all my career I've been
trying to improve my craft.

So at that point
I had dropped out

and figured I'd
stay away from music

and the music
scene and everybody

and just try to
improve my playing

and I studied
piano for it again.

And so, that was a
very important period,

a publicized period.

I had been practicing on
the bridge and I think

a jazz writer had
seen us on the bridge,

seen me on the bridge practicing

and he wrote a
little story about it

and it became famous,
infamous Sonny Rollins

practicing alone on the bridge.

So when I finally came
back to the jazz scene

and I came back to appearing,

I was appearing in a night
club and I made my debut again,

I recorded for RCA at
that time and we thought,

well it would be
apropos if we named

the album The Bridge, or at
least some songs in the album.

- Although I never
saw Sonny Rollins

practicing on the bridge,

I did see him blowing
into a little closet

in his apartment
on Grand Street,

he used that to muffle the sound

so he wouldn't bother anybody
and he could play at any hour.

He also had a board on
which he did exercises.

He was drinking orange juice,
he was into Rosicrucianism,

and a complete contrast
from the guy who had been

strung out a few years earlier.

So he did a complete about-face,
he started really working

on physical fitness and he
knew that in order to be

a tenor player, to
have the endurance

to play that instrument,
that he had to be in shape

and he talked about this.

- Any instrument eventually
gets to be a part

of the person playing it,
it's a very personal thing.

And the saxophone
is closer to me,

I hate to say it's almost
closer than Lucille.

But she knows this already
so she's not jealous.

Before I was married
to Lucille, though,

I did have problems
with girlfriends

and my saxophone
though, I must say that.

And one of them broke up
my saxophone at one time

when she was mad at me.

I was playing a
very important job

at the Five spot with
Mingus and a lot of people.

But the saxophone
is very close to you

and it's a very
delicate instrument

and the slightest
thing can change the

nuance that you put into it.

So it can drive you crazy.

It can drive you crazy
because even if you know what

you want to play, sometimes
it doesn't come out

because of the
differences in the horn

and it might not be
working exactly right

or something like that.

So it's a very
close relationship.

- Obviously I think
he's important.

And just as obviously, I have
a hard time explaining why

to a general audience,
why he is so important.

It's almost gotta be accepted.

In one sense, he's never
been as influential

at any given period
as say, Miles Davis,

well, as Miles Davis
has been throughout

Miles Davis' whole career.

But he's never been
as important as Miles,

he's never been as
influential as Coletrane was

in the mid to late '60s,

or Ornette Coleman during
much of that same time.

And I think one of the
reasons is he's never,

unlike them, he never formed
the band in his own image.

He's never been
successful at doing that.

And in a way, that almost
enhances his appeal,

that lack of context.

It's just Sonny Rollins as
the single most excellent

standard of jazz you
can possibly imagine.

- Jazz is a music that's made
be people playing together

but the master improvisers
are always the ones

who set the tone,
they take the lead,

the bring everyone
in around them

and Sonny Rollins is
someone who has listened

to all the great
players before him

and come up with
something of his own

and that's the way
the music moves along.

His tone is so personal,

that deep sound of his is
like no other saxophonist.

His sense of time, the
rhythmic displacement,

his pauses, his rests,
the way he then comes

rushing up from behind the beat.

His ability to play at length

and still come up
with interesting ideas

is something that
stands out in my mind.

- One of the most important
aspects of Sonny's influence

on jazz is his
ability to improvise

an extended solo and
keep your attention

and not just go through the
cycle of choruses and chords.

I guess the first
examples were, again,

an unlikely song,
Irving Berlin's

There's No Business
Like Show Business,

and There Are Such Things

which has a a terrific
cadenza at the end.

And he figured out how
to alternate the chorus

and the verse in such a way

to constantly keep you
a little bit off balance

while you're listening
to the performance.

And then he developed
this subsequent record

with a piece called Blue 7,

and in writing about that I'd,

Gunther Schuller coined the
phrase thematic improvisation,

well he meant by that was
that Sonny will take a theme

and he will use the
melody to govern

the improvisational ideas
that follow rather than simply

playing rote on
the chord changes.

And actually, Rollins has
a lot of different ways

that he organizes improvisations

but the end product is that
combining them together

he manages to sustain
interest for say,

five, six choruses,

10, 12 minutes in a way
that very few improvisers

have ever been able to do.

And it never becomes just
a self-indulgent howl

or a kind of
emotional outpouring.

It's always logical,

it's always a kind of
Aristotelian perfection

of beginning and a
middle and an end

and he takes you someplace
and you know where he's going.

One of the pitfalls of
that kind of playing

is that with Sonny, as
I mentioned earlier,

there's no hiding for him.

You always know when
he's playing very well

and when he's not because
it's all right there

on the plate for you.

- Whenever I try to
create anything, solos
when I'm playing,

what I'm basically trying
to do is to blot out my mind

as much as possible.

And of course I've already
learned the material,

so after learning the material

then I try to blot
out my mind and just

let it flow by itself.

So I try not to really think
too much about what I'm playing

when I'm soloing.

So I sorta have the
structure already

and then I just try to create
and let it come by itself.

[applauding]

[audience applauding]

- At certain points during
my playing I leave the stage.

Sometimes I go out
into the audience

and I get feedback
from the audience.

They stimulate me to do more

and to get into different areas.

And this is sort of
what I had in mind

when I was doing that concert.

I figured that I
would leave the stage,

jump down off of the stage
and then come back onto stage.

And at first I said no,
I looked and I figured

it might be too steep but I
thought I could manipulate it

and I tried, at first I didn't.

And it was unfortunate because
I did sustain a broken heel.

But I kept playing and I
was very happy about that

and I was happy that a lot
of the people didn't realize

that I was actually
hurt or anything

and they thought it was just
a part of the performance.

- At the time that
Sonny came along,

jazz was grappling with
the problem of standards

and how to play them and what
to do to find new material.

The previous generation,
Parker and Gillespie had taken

a lot of standard tunes and
written their own chords

and their own melodies and
added substitute chords

to the original
chord progressions.

Rollins went back and
found all kinds of pieces

that jazz musicians did
not know what to do with

or would not have
known what to do with

if he hadn't played them.

Things like Jolson's songs
and I'm an Old Cow Hand,

Toot Toot Tootsie and
all kinds of ballads

and he made them credible as
music, let alone as jazz music.

He proved, and Miles Davis
is someone else who did this,

that if you find the right
tempo, the right attack,

the right approach
for a piece of music,

you can make it work for you.

And so Rollins, even at
the height of free jazz,

never had to turn
away from that.

The whole standards record, he
did a lot of those standards,

weren't really standards
until he brought them back

into the jazz meilleur.

- Right, he one time
described it as,

I was starting to
do a list of them,

and he said, he named a
few others and he said,

"Songs no one ever
recorded before

"and no one will
ever record again."

And as somebody else
pointed out to me

when I told that to them,

of course they never
record them again,

it's because Sonny has made
the definitive versions.

It'd be crazy to record
some of those songs again.

- Well, I met Lucille in Chicago

when I was playing
Max Roach's group.

And Lucille was a friend
of a friend of mine,

actually it was a musician
that I was rehearsing with

at the time, and this
musician had a girlfriend

who was a girlfriend of
Lucille's so they both

got together, I think,

and came down to see
us play some place.

- The same girl or woman
that Sonny talked about

who was my friend had
told me a lot about Sonny.

She sort of wanted us to meet.

And when I met him I knew,

I knew right away

that this was going to
be something special.

I don't believe
he did but I did.

And I was determined
that this was the guy.

She told me not to do
this because she said

you're gonna get hurt
and don't get involved.

Just have a good time
but don't get involved.

But I did. [laughs]

I did the booking
for a long time.

Now I just do the managing
and occasional booking.

- Occasionally booking.

- But I love it.

And the producing came
about because I was always

involved anyway and
starting about '78,

there was a particularly
difficult record,

the Don't Stop the
Carnival album,

which was a...

There were great
problems with that album

and Sonny was reluctant to
go in the studio to mix it

so Orrin and I, Orrin Keepnews,

who was Sonny's
producer at that time.

- [Sonny] At that time, yeah.

- Decided that if Sonny
would let us we would mix it

to spare him.

And I think he was
sort of at the point,

he said, "Okay, go ahead."

And so then it just
changed from there.

And finally we decided that
we wanted to do everything

our own way instead
of having anybody else

to say do this this way
or this way or this way,

we wanted to do it the way

that was most
comfortable for Sonny.

And it wasn't
anything against Orrin

because we're still
friends but it was

just we wanted to
do it all our way.

- Sonny Rollins on
records is very often not

the Sonny Rollins
that we hear live.

When I first started
reading jazz criticism

and listening to the records,
I remember a critic reviewing

the recording he made for
RCA in the early '60s of

If Ever I Would Leave You
and saying it's a good record

but it certainly can't
compare with the extraordinary

performance he gave at
such and such a place.

And I thought this
is remarkable.

It seemed to me, I was
very naive of course,

and I thought it's amazing
that they wouldn't keep

doing takes until they
got something as good.

But really that's been a
constant throughout his career.

We all have memories of some
To a Wild Rose that he played

that we'll never forget and
the version on the record

isn't quite up to that.

Every time for a long
time in the mid-'70s

whenever I reviewed
Sonny in concert

I would get letters from
people around the country

telling me that I was nuts.

How can you compare the
latest Sonny Rollins record

with Way Out West or
Saxophone Colossus or Workout?

And I would always tell them
you have to see him live.

And then finally in late '70s,

or I guess it was
maybe the early '80s,

Fantasy put out Don't
Stop the Carnival

and it's got two
performances on it,

Silver City and Autumn Nocturne

that are among the great
Rollins masterpieces.

And two of the people who
had written me those letters

wrote me back and said,
"Just heard that record,

"now I understand what
you were talking about."

So, Rollins really is the
ultimate example of a musician

who proves the old
adage about jazz

which is that the music
is very much a process of

communication between a
player and the audience

and sometimes for Sonny
it just does not happen

when he's playing
to a glass booth.

- In his defense though, Gary,

don't you think the
records are getting better?

- Oh yes, I'm glad
you said that.

- [Francis] He's
abandoned that approach.

Not bringing in Donald
Byrd or whomever.

- Ever since Sonny and Lucille
started producing themselves,

I think the records
have gotten better.

- I get very angry and I
get these nice fantasies.

I think I told you of
having a jazz critic up to

a 39th floor apartment
and telling him

to look out the window and
just step further, further.

I have very nice fantasies.

[speaking Japanese]

[banging drums]

- I've always wanted, actually,

to work in different
musical environments.

The opportunity to do
this piece came about

through my sponsors
here in Japan.

And they asked me would I
like to do an orchestral piece

this time around.

So of course I said
I'd love to do it.

I've never done anything
quite like this before

and because of that, of course,

I sought the help of
a good friend of mine,

old musical companion of
mine, Heikki Sarmanto.

- I was in South America
doing some playing

and I came back to Helsinki,

I flew first to New York
and stayed there one day.

And I was trying to call
my old friend Sonny Rollins

but I couldn't reach
him in New York.

I spent there only one night
and then I commuted back home

to Helsinki and as I
walk into my apartment

with all the luggage in
my hand, the phone rings.

And guess who it is?

It's Sonny.

And Sonny says, "I have
this thing in Japan.

"Would you be interested?"

[piano music]

- The themes were mine.

I labored over
them for some time

trying to come up
with what would sound

proper in this context.

And I asked Heikki to
orchestrate them for me

and to also conduct
the orchestra for me.

[singing]

- And back to the beginning.

And there the trumpets are
beginning this letter here.

Trumpets are coming in.

[singing]

While that's coming, the
trumpets are coming in.

[singing]

Very Spanish feeling.

[Heikki mumbles]

[singing]

Then we go to that theme.

[singing]

That's it, the rest right?

One very important thing
is that those ideas

he had originally created,
those little thematic patterns,

they were so incredibly
strong, melodic,

very meaningful melodies.

They were the seed
for this whole piece.

If you have even a tiny
little thematic pattern,

just a couple of bars, but
if it's really good, strong,

original line, from
that you can make

a whole big tree grow up.

- I have been called

a spontaneous
orchestrator and so on.

Of course this is not a
spontaneous orchestration

in that sense but I hope to
bring some of those qualities

to this piece in that I will
still be improvising myself

on many sections of it.

No two performances of this
concerto will be alike.

And in that sense, it will
be true to what I'm about.

It is very much structured.

And what will be different
will be my relation

to the structure, each
time will be different.

- I put them all together
because we all have to play it.

That should be it because

they keep the whole
thing together.

- They need a little soft--
- Yeah, a little soft there.

I think it's going to
be a dynamite concert.

[laughs]

Probably like most premieres,

it's not gonna be
technically finished yet

but it will have the first
performance excitement.

- I'm actually quite
excited about it

and looking forward to it.

[dramatic orchestral music]

When I first came to
Japan sometime ago

I was very pleased to find
that the Japanese fans

were very much aware
of the birth dates

and the history of all
of the jazz musicians,

myself included.

And I was very much
excited about that.

And I find that they're
a very good audience.

Very fine audience.

They take their
music very seriously.

They keep up with
everything that's happening,

all the latest
developments in the music.

- These musicians here in
the symphony orchestra,

they are just
amazingly professional.

It's a very difficult piece
of music, my goodness,

and they have never been
playing this type of music

because frankly, I have never
heard this type of piece

being written for
symphony orchestra.

So this whole experience
was very new for all of us,

for Sonny, myself
and the orchestra.

- I try to always

inject in my work with a

spiritual quality, it
sounds kind of grandiose

to put it in that way but...

I have studied
Zen in Japan here.

I did study.

I studied yoga in India.

Of course, I was born a
Christian in the United States

and I found elements
of all these religions

that are quite
similar in many ways.

So, philosophy,
religion, spirituality,

all these things, it's
never very far away from

what I'm doing at any time.

And I'm sure that when
I'm playing here in Japan

that's the case as it
is when I'm playing

in the United States and
other parts of the world.

[dramatic orchestral music]

[audience applauding]

My parents come from the
Caribbean area of the world,

the islands, and

it might be significant that
Japan of course is an island.

And on our last trip to Japan,
there's an area of Japan

near Hiroshima and we were
traveling from one part

of Japan to another and
we were nearing Hiroshima

and I happened to, it was
striking the resemblance

between the island and
the area in the Caribbean,

it was very much similar.

And it never really occurred
to me until then but

it so happened that after
that, not too long after that,

a Japanese friend of mine
brought up the fact that

perhaps this is the reason
why I'm so liked in Japan

because the island
connection is there

in some mysterious way.

So being a guy that's
kind of mysterious myself,

I thought hey, it's
alright, why not?

So I'm all for it
if that's happening.

I've been here now, this
will be my twelfth time

that I've been in
Japan for a tour.

So I think the
Japanese people like me

and I like the Japanese people.

I like all people, I
consider myself like most

jazz musicians do as diplomats
of course and ambassadors

for the United States and we're
usually treated quite well

around the world and so I
take my job in that respect

quite seriously.

And I find that I've been
accepted here by the Japanese

and I also accept them and
like them quite a great deal.

[audience applauding]

I'm not that well-known.

I'm not the most famous
person in the world

so a lot of places
where we play,

people don't know
anything about me at all.

I have played places where
I play in front of people

that really don't know
anything about me.

So in a way, when I'm
presented as the greatest

or one of the greatest
or something like that,

it gives me a little leeway
and people are not quite so

hostile and judging of me.

So I'm able to sort of walk
in and feel a little more

able to lead into things
in a more natural way

instead of really having to

prove everything I play
every minute that I play it.

I don't feel I'm the
greatest anything,

I still feel I'm a
developing musician

so as far as I'm
concerned I'm still

proving it to
myself all the time,

but it's good when I don't
have to prove it to audiences.

- One thing I'd like
to say about Sonny,

and we haven't touched
on it, is his marvelous

interpretation of his
West Indian heritage

and the way he plays
those kind of songs.

And I remember being down in
Saint Thomas for the first time

and this was after Sonny

had done the song
called St. Thomas,

and walking along
the street one night

passing under a window where
there was a dance going on

and the saxophone player
in that band down there,

who was not a jazz band,
they were playing Calypso,

but the sound that he
got was exactly the sound

that Sonny can get when he
wants to duplicate that style

in addition to doing
a lot of other things

with the improvisation
on something like

Don't Stop the Carnival
or Hold 'Em Joe.

- There was a time in my
career when I thought that my

soloing and my playing
would be able to turn

the world around.

I'd be able to change
politics and influence things

for the better.

I don't have these
illusions anymore.

Now, all I want to
do is to maybe bring

enjoyment to myself and
enjoyment to those people that

appreciate a little bit of
my art and what I'm doing.

And I think that just being
able to do that is plenty.

- To me, and people could
say I'm not objective,

I feel his playing is much
stronger and more beautiful now

than it's ever been.

I think not only, and I'm
not talking just technically,

but I think because he's changed
as a person over the years

and I sense more, and somebody
else commented on this

the other day so
it's not just me,

that there's now more
warmth and more feeling

and more depth than
ever in his playing.

And I've never heard
him play better

and I honestly mean that.

And I'm in awe of his
playing aside from loving him

as my husband, I think
he's spectacular.