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[Pivar] The story is-is more bizarre
than-than people begin to realize.
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[Oxenberg] She says, "Jeffrey
has to have three orgasms a day,
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and I help him 'cause I cannot
keep up with his libido."
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[Farmer] Ghislaine would go and
get people out of Central Park.
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And I saw her give her
phone number to a girl,
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and then that child showed up.
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Miss Maxwell did explain that there
would be a lot of women around.
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[Miles] She said, "You'll see
lots of bees around the honey pot,
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00:00:32,554 --> 00:00:34,730
but I'm the queen bee,
always remember that."
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00:00:34,860 --> 00:00:38,864
Miss Maxwell is the
reason that I was abused.
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She led me into that situation.
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[Helm] Everybody wants
to talk about him,
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00:00:44,174 --> 00:00:46,437
and it's not focused
on Ghislaine.
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She facilitated it. She
made the network happen.
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00:00:56,012 --> 00:00:59,885
I love the smell
of the ocean spray.
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The sound of the waves.
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The cry of the sea birds.
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The sunsets, the sunrises.
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I love the ocean.
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[reporter] In New York,
stunning testimony today
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from an alleged victim in
the sex trafficking trial
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of Jeffry Epstein's
companion Ghislaine Maxwell.
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[reporter 2] The first of
Ghislaine Maxwell's four accusers,
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testifying under
the pseudonym Jane,
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graphically described
the first time
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Jeffrey Epstein
sexually abused her.
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Some of the details are
absolutely harrowing.
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Maxwell, she says,
fondled her breasts.
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Jeffrey Epstein sexually
assaulted her with sex toys
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when she was 14 years old.
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It's a trial a quarter
century in the making.
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And of course since that time,
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the victims have been
looking for a reckoning.
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[Sigrid McCawley] I've been
working with the survivors
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00:01:55,941 --> 00:01:57,943
of Jeffrey Epstein
and Ghislaine Maxwell
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00:01:58,074 --> 00:02:00,990
for about seven years now.
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00:02:01,121 --> 00:02:05,212
I think for any of the women
who are being called to testify,
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00:02:05,342 --> 00:02:08,084
there's a lot of anxiety with
having to face your abuser
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00:02:08,214 --> 00:02:10,042
in a court of law.
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00:02:10,130 --> 00:02:11,890
There will be a lot of
relief in this as well,
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00:02:11,914 --> 00:02:13,785
because they'll
have the opportunity
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00:02:13,916 --> 00:02:16,832
to talk to the jurors about
what happened to them.
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00:02:16,962 --> 00:02:19,748
There's been a
lot of speculation
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00:02:19,878 --> 00:02:23,317
about why it took so long for
Maxwell to be held accountable.
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00:02:23,447 --> 00:02:25,971
That involves
power and privilege
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in a way that was unique
to this circumstance.
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00:02:30,933 --> 00:02:33,414
Well, there's so many of
us that have walked around
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00:02:33,544 --> 00:02:37,853
feeling like we don't have the
right to speak up for ourselves.
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00:02:37,983 --> 00:02:40,029
I definitely need to
be here to show her
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that everything that
she's taken from me,
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I'm taking it all back.
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It has to be the turning point,
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00:02:49,995 --> 00:02:53,695
that society as a whole puts
that stake in the ground,
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00:02:53,825 --> 00:02:55,566
draws that line and says
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you cannot get away
with these things
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00:02:58,787 --> 00:03:01,311
just because of who you are
and how much money you have.
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00:03:01,442 --> 00:03:04,053
[dramatic music]
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[dialing telephone]
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00:03:19,024 --> 00:03:21,505
[ringing tone]
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00:03:21,592 --> 00:03:24,595
[ticking]
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00:03:49,141 --> 00:03:52,928
[Spencer Kuvin] I'm an attorney
practicing in West Palm Beach, Florida.
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00:03:53,058 --> 00:03:55,539
I represented one of the first
young victims to come forward
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00:03:55,670 --> 00:03:58,890
here in Palm Beach County
against Mr. Epstein.
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Through that process
we began to understand
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00:04:02,329 --> 00:04:07,638
the full breadth of
Mr. Epstein's sexual conspiracy,
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00:04:07,769 --> 00:04:10,250
and the organization
which involved Maxwell,
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00:04:10,380 --> 00:04:11,879
as well as many of
the other young girls
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00:04:11,903 --> 00:04:13,731
that she had trained.
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00:04:40,932 --> 00:04:44,893
These were young girls, some of
them as young as 14 years old,
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00:04:45,023 --> 00:04:47,635
who did not have the
wherewithal to understand
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00:04:47,722 --> 00:04:50,768
what they were getting
themselves into.
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00:04:50,899 --> 00:04:52,659
[police officer] The premises
desired to be searched
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is a two-story,
single-family residence,
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00:04:54,859 --> 00:04:57,166
occupied or under the
control of Jeffrey Epstein,
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00:04:57,297 --> 00:05:00,169
white male, date
of birth 1.20.53.
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00:05:00,300 --> 00:05:02,321
[Spencer Kuvin] The first
young lady that I represented
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00:05:02,345 --> 00:05:04,608
never specifically
mentioned Maxwell.
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00:05:04,739 --> 00:05:06,436
But there was this
older, British,
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00:05:06,523 --> 00:05:08,743
distinguished lady
behind the scenes.
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00:05:08,873 --> 00:05:11,920
They didn't know who she was.
She was answering the door.
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00:05:12,050 --> 00:05:14,183
She was escorting
people through.
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00:05:14,270 --> 00:05:16,553
She was telling them, "Oh, go
up there. Go into that room,"
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00:05:16,577 --> 00:05:18,666
or "Go into the kitchen."
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00:05:18,796 --> 00:05:21,669
When my clients visited,
they would frequently see
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00:05:21,799 --> 00:05:25,020
pictures of Ghislaine Maxwell
with very famous individuals,
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00:05:25,150 --> 00:05:29,111
and it was very clear she was
very wealthy and powerful.
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00:05:29,241 --> 00:05:32,462
But at the beginning we
weren't really focused on her,
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00:05:32,593 --> 00:05:36,423
so we never learned the full
breadth of her part in this
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00:05:36,510 --> 00:05:38,120
until much later on.
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00:05:38,250 --> 00:05:40,078
We were focused on Epstein.
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00:05:40,209 --> 00:05:42,385
Later during the investigation,
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00:05:42,516 --> 00:05:44,909
when interviewing and
conducting the deposition,
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00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,739
the name Maxwell would
come up repeatedly.
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00:05:48,870 --> 00:05:50,804
Ghislaine Maxwell was a
lot more than just someone
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00:05:50,828 --> 00:05:52,917
who stayed in a room at
the Palm Beach mansion.
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00:05:53,048 --> 00:05:56,094
She was directing the activities
that were going on there.
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00:05:56,225 --> 00:05:58,793
What we came to learn is that
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00:05:58,923 --> 00:06:01,665
by the time of
this investigation,
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00:06:01,796 --> 00:06:03,363
Maxwell had stepped away
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00:06:03,450 --> 00:06:05,669
from the direct
recruitment of young girls.
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00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,586
She had trained
primary recruiters.
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00:06:09,717 --> 00:06:14,504
Those primary recruiters then
would train local recruiters
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00:06:14,635 --> 00:06:16,680
to get girls to come
over to the house.
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00:06:18,116 --> 00:06:19,640
This sexual pyramid scheme
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00:06:19,770 --> 00:06:23,383
really had Ghislaine
Maxwell at the top.
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00:06:23,513 --> 00:06:25,645
We as attorneys
wanted to talk to her.
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00:06:25,776 --> 00:06:27,909
We knew that she was
jet-setting across the world.
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00:06:28,039 --> 00:06:29,519
We knew that she
could fly to France
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00:06:29,650 --> 00:06:32,783
or Virgin Islands at any moment.
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00:06:32,914 --> 00:06:34,872
We had heard that
she was at some kind
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00:06:35,003 --> 00:06:38,702
of a private benefit event
up in New York at one point,
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00:06:38,833 --> 00:06:42,227
so we had hired process servers
to go and try and serve her.
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00:06:42,358 --> 00:06:44,665
Unfortunately, that
ended up in a failure.
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00:06:44,794 --> 00:06:46,754
They couldn't get in
and get her served.
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00:06:46,884 --> 00:06:49,452
So we were never able to issue
a subpoena to her at the time,
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00:06:49,539 --> 00:06:52,934
because she had essentially
disappeared in the wind.
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00:07:07,339 --> 00:07:09,603
[Cathy] I went down
to tidy his room,
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00:07:09,733 --> 00:07:13,476
and there on his dresser
was the arrest warrant.
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00:07:13,563 --> 00:07:15,913
I actually didn't read
what the thing was
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00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,568
until he actually told
us up in the kitchen.
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I think I was too
frightened to snoop.
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00:07:20,395 --> 00:07:23,530
When he spoke to
us on that morning,
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00:07:23,660 --> 00:07:27,577
he said it was for
solicitation of a minor
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for prostitution, huh?
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00:07:29,361 --> 00:07:30,774
- Something like that.
- Something like that.
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00:07:30,798 --> 00:07:32,234
In all honesty, I was shocked.
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00:07:32,364 --> 00:07:34,628
- We were shocked.
- We were both shocked.
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00:07:34,758 --> 00:07:36,169
The way it was explained
to us was basically
129
00:07:36,193 --> 00:07:38,109
a "slap on the wrist" fine,
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00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,285
like a traffic fine that
they're charging him with,
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00:07:40,372 --> 00:07:42,157
well, it seemed like it.
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00:07:42,287 --> 00:07:44,607
So I said, "Well, just pay the
fine and get over and done."
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00:07:44,725 --> 00:07:46,727
"Get it out of the news.
Get everything sorted."
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00:07:46,857 --> 00:07:49,425
At that point in the relationship
between the two of them,
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00:07:49,556 --> 00:07:52,254
I think it was pretty
antagonistic at points.
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00:07:52,384 --> 00:07:55,170
He actually told us...
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that, um... she'd gone.
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00:07:58,260 --> 00:08:00,001
Yeah, one day she's...
139
00:08:00,131 --> 00:08:02,873
One day, he walked into the
kitchen and he said, "It's over."
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00:08:03,004 --> 00:08:05,789
I actually felt quite
sorry for him at the time.
141
00:08:05,876 --> 00:08:08,226
[Miles] It was a
bit... traumatic.
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00:08:08,357 --> 00:08:12,448
Traumatic. We had a couple
of fighting matches.
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00:08:12,579 --> 00:08:14,276
I wouldn't go too
deep into that.
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00:08:14,406 --> 00:08:18,193
No, I know, which is
understandable, um...
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00:08:18,323 --> 00:08:23,198
So you could see this
relationship was moving
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00:08:23,328 --> 00:08:25,330
in a different direction, yeah.
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00:08:33,948 --> 00:08:38,692
Miss Maxwell was not around,
um, for... for quite a while.
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00:08:38,822 --> 00:08:40,452
She got involved with a
man that does computers,
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00:08:40,476 --> 00:08:42,478
as far as I remember.
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00:08:42,609 --> 00:08:45,089
[Cathy] She was completely
just out of the whole...
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00:08:45,220 --> 00:08:47,091
- [Miles] Out of the loop.
- Out of the loop.
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00:08:47,222 --> 00:08:49,342
So you could see she'd started
a new life for herself,
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00:08:49,441 --> 00:08:52,749
which I thought was
good for her, you know.
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The relationship uh,
between Epstein and Maxwell,
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00:08:58,146 --> 00:09:01,671
who was dominant,
who was subservient,
156
00:09:01,758 --> 00:09:05,545
how many of the
strategies and tactics
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00:09:05,675 --> 00:09:09,636
for recruiting and grooming
uh, came from Maxwell,
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00:09:09,766 --> 00:09:11,507
and how much came from Epstein,
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00:09:11,638 --> 00:09:14,771
uh, we'll never probably
know completely.
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00:09:14,902 --> 00:09:19,471
But what we do know is that
Maxwell bears responsibility
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00:09:19,602 --> 00:09:23,998
not only for the
young women and girls
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00:09:24,128 --> 00:09:26,087
who she personally recruited,
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00:09:26,174 --> 00:09:30,178
but also for her role in
the overall enterprise,
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00:09:30,265 --> 00:09:33,616
where she would recruit somebody
to recruit somebody else,
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00:09:33,747 --> 00:09:37,272
to recruit somebody else,
to recruit somebody else.
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00:09:37,401 --> 00:09:39,970
I think that one of
the cruelest things
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that Epstein and Maxwell did
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is to induce, coerce,
these young girls
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00:09:46,890 --> 00:09:50,546
to bring in other young girls.
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[Phillips] It has been a
really big journey for me
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00:09:52,504 --> 00:09:54,245
to actually get to that point
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00:09:54,332 --> 00:09:55,943
where I'm not in denial anymore,
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00:09:56,073 --> 00:09:59,468
and I can say, "Yeah,
I was abused too."
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00:09:59,599 --> 00:10:03,167
I was already in the islands
next to him, in St. John's,
175
00:10:03,254 --> 00:10:05,387
and I just was with a friend,
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00:10:05,517 --> 00:10:08,608
and she asked me to go
with her to the island.
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00:10:08,695 --> 00:10:11,393
So I didn't know about
this whole private island
178
00:10:11,523 --> 00:10:13,569
and, like, who
Jeffrey Epstein was.
179
00:10:13,700 --> 00:10:15,919
I didn't know anything when
I went with her that day.
180
00:10:16,006 --> 00:10:18,182
I had only met
Jeffrey pretty briefly
181
00:10:18,269 --> 00:10:20,924
before someone was
sent to our room
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00:10:21,055 --> 00:10:24,493
to, uh, bring us
there for a massage.
183
00:10:24,624 --> 00:10:26,974
And so I just thought, OK,
well, it's kind of weird,
184
00:10:27,104 --> 00:10:29,106
but I trust the girl
that brought me.
185
00:10:29,237 --> 00:10:31,369
So, um, yeah, we
went to his room,
186
00:10:31,500 --> 00:10:34,634
and I realized at the time that
the girl that brought me there,
187
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she had done this before,
188
00:10:36,026 --> 00:10:37,245
so she was very comfortable,
189
00:10:37,375 --> 00:10:38,681
and she was massaging him,
190
00:10:38,812 --> 00:10:40,857
and I kind of just
took her lead.
191
00:10:40,988 --> 00:10:45,035
And then, um...
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00:10:45,166 --> 00:10:47,995
pretty quickly
afterwards, you know,
193
00:10:48,082 --> 00:10:51,694
is when Jeffrey, um,
194
00:10:51,825 --> 00:10:53,696
started touching
me inappropriately,
195
00:10:53,827 --> 00:10:58,614
and that's, like, when
the abuse happened, um...
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00:10:58,745 --> 00:11:01,182
I was really confused
about what happened.
197
00:11:01,312 --> 00:11:02,792
I just, like, realized
198
00:11:02,923 --> 00:11:04,620
maybe that's why she
brought me there,
199
00:11:04,751 --> 00:11:06,883
was kind of to lure me to him,
200
00:11:07,014 --> 00:11:10,321
and she was the one who
got paid for bringing me.
201
00:11:10,452 --> 00:11:14,064
She made it seem like it
was like no big deal at all.
202
00:11:14,195 --> 00:11:16,632
It was hard for me to deal with
it for many years after that.
203
00:11:16,763 --> 00:11:20,288
And then hearing so many other
women had the exact same story
204
00:11:20,418 --> 00:11:22,812
of another young person,
another young woman,
205
00:11:22,943 --> 00:11:26,990
bringing them to
Jeffrey for a massage,
206
00:11:27,077 --> 00:11:29,253
but then getting
sexually abused.
207
00:11:29,384 --> 00:11:31,603
And every time I hear it,
I'm just like thinking,
208
00:11:31,734 --> 00:11:34,694
"That was me, that was me."
209
00:11:36,826 --> 00:11:39,960
I'm headed to the
Ghislaine Maxwell trial.
210
00:11:40,090 --> 00:11:42,789
This is just like
another step for me
211
00:11:42,919 --> 00:11:46,575
just to realize and kind
of move on and heal.
212
00:11:54,104 --> 00:11:56,628
This whole nightmare
never would have happened
213
00:11:56,759 --> 00:11:58,674
if it wasn't for Ghislaine.
214
00:11:58,805 --> 00:12:02,112
The woman who brought
me to Jeffrey's island
215
00:12:02,243 --> 00:12:04,549
was recruited by her.
216
00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:08,249
There were so many
people that she brought
217
00:12:08,379 --> 00:12:11,643
that brought others,
that brought others,
218
00:12:11,774 --> 00:12:16,387
so it was just all
these, like, layers.
219
00:12:16,518 --> 00:12:18,738
It's scary that I fit
into that story somehow.
220
00:12:20,827 --> 00:12:23,786
[Boies] That's the way
pyramid schemes work.
221
00:12:23,917 --> 00:12:28,095
That's the way enterprises
of this scope and scale work.
222
00:12:28,225 --> 00:12:32,490
That was part of the power,
223
00:12:32,621 --> 00:12:37,321
part of the reason why
it was able to recruit
224
00:12:37,452 --> 00:12:41,151
not just a handful
of young girls,
225
00:12:41,282 --> 00:12:44,285
but dozens, hundreds
of young girls.
226
00:12:46,417 --> 00:12:50,595
There was no one
else in the pyramid
227
00:12:50,682 --> 00:12:52,815
who had her position.
228
00:12:52,946 --> 00:12:57,428
No one else who had
her wealth, her status.
229
00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,954
No one else did Epstein
give $30 million to.
230
00:13:01,084 --> 00:13:06,176
So if you put Epstein at
the top of the pyramid,
231
00:13:06,307 --> 00:13:10,006
Maxwell's right next to him.
232
00:13:10,137 --> 00:13:12,052
And the only question is,
233
00:13:12,182 --> 00:13:16,056
is she right next to
him at the same level,
234
00:13:16,186 --> 00:13:17,884
or is she right next to him
235
00:13:18,014 --> 00:13:21,409
at the level
immediately below him?
236
00:13:21,539 --> 00:13:24,629
[reporter] Jeffrey Epstein's
personal 727 aircraft
237
00:13:24,716 --> 00:13:28,285
arrived at PBIA from
Newark at 5 p.m.
238
00:13:28,416 --> 00:13:30,592
The investor, traveling
with a small entourage,
239
00:13:30,722 --> 00:13:32,812
was met at the private
Galaxy Aviation.
240
00:13:40,515 --> 00:13:43,257
Jeffrey Epstein went to jail
just before ten this morning.
241
00:13:43,387 --> 00:13:45,259
He pleaded guilty in open court.
242
00:13:45,346 --> 00:13:47,000
He agreed to serve
a total of 18 months
243
00:13:47,130 --> 00:13:48,871
in a Palm Beach
detention facility,
244
00:13:48,958 --> 00:13:51,787
12 for felony solicitation
of prostitutes,
245
00:13:51,918 --> 00:13:55,878
and an additional six for procuring
persons under 18 for prostitution.
246
00:13:56,009 --> 00:13:59,055
The guilty plea and deal
end a years-long process
247
00:13:59,186 --> 00:14:02,363
that could have sent Epstein
to jail for 15 years.
248
00:14:02,493 --> 00:14:04,844
I couldn't believe that he
got the sweetheart deal.
249
00:14:04,974 --> 00:14:06,541
The federal
government interviewed
250
00:14:06,671 --> 00:14:08,412
at least 40 young girls,
251
00:14:08,499 --> 00:14:10,937
but, for some reason,
the government decided
252
00:14:11,067 --> 00:14:13,417
that they were
gonna use one case
253
00:14:13,548 --> 00:14:15,811
as the case that they
would convict him of.
254
00:14:15,942 --> 00:14:17,136
They're letting him
out during the day
255
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:18,640
to walk around and have lunch,
256
00:14:18,770 --> 00:14:20,729
and have massages at his office.
257
00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:22,470
He got out after only one year.
258
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,864
[reporter] A few
steps, a smile,
259
00:14:24,994 --> 00:14:27,388
and a wave to the
deputy at the door.
260
00:14:27,518 --> 00:14:29,738
We watched Jeffrey
Epstein walk out of jail,
261
00:14:29,869 --> 00:14:32,262
but only his attorneys
heard from him.
262
00:14:32,349 --> 00:14:34,149
He's very happy that his
jail sentence is over
263
00:14:34,221 --> 00:14:36,919
and uh, he can begin a
new chapter in his life.
264
00:14:37,050 --> 00:14:39,574
[Kuvin] They entered
into what's called
265
00:14:39,704 --> 00:14:41,663
a non-prosecution agreement.
266
00:14:41,793 --> 00:14:44,057
That prevented any
further prosecution
267
00:14:44,187 --> 00:14:45,885
of not just Jeffrey Epstein,
268
00:14:46,015 --> 00:14:48,322
but also any others
269
00:14:48,452 --> 00:14:50,237
who may have been involved.
270
00:14:52,369 --> 00:14:54,981
Maxwell is not mentioned,
271
00:14:55,068 --> 00:14:58,071
and we have to assume
that that was intentional.
272
00:14:58,201 --> 00:15:01,117
Jeffery probably told
her, "Just disappear,
273
00:15:01,248 --> 00:15:03,685
go away, stay away
from all of this,
274
00:15:03,815 --> 00:15:07,863
and don't worry about it,
I'll take care of it."
275
00:15:07,994 --> 00:15:12,607
[Boies] The non-prosecution
agreement was a corrupt agreement,
276
00:15:12,737 --> 00:15:15,871
and it should never have let
277
00:15:16,002 --> 00:15:18,569
people like Maxwell walk.
278
00:15:18,700 --> 00:15:20,789
I think it led
279
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,881
to a sense of invulnerability,
280
00:15:26,012 --> 00:15:28,362
uh, it-it led to a
sense of confidence,
281
00:15:28,492 --> 00:15:32,322
that having beat
that, she was free.
282
00:15:43,420 --> 00:15:47,033
[ticking]
283
00:15:50,514 --> 00:15:53,387
If the United Nations create
284
00:15:53,517 --> 00:15:55,693
a stand-alone ocean
development goal,
285
00:15:55,824 --> 00:15:57,478
that is a needle mover.
286
00:15:57,565 --> 00:16:00,655
That will make new
laws, new governance,
287
00:16:00,785 --> 00:16:03,005
and a new way at
looking at the ocean,
288
00:16:03,136 --> 00:16:05,094
and that is what will
change the world.
289
00:16:05,225 --> 00:16:06,225
Thank you.
290
00:16:16,497 --> 00:16:18,344
So how does it... does it
all look? Is my hair good?
291
00:16:18,368 --> 00:16:20,936
Do I...? It's all
good? [laughs]
292
00:16:21,067 --> 00:16:23,678
[woman] All right,
we're rolling.
293
00:16:23,808 --> 00:16:26,309
[woman 2] Ghislaine, you've been a
philanthropist your whole career.
294
00:16:26,333 --> 00:16:28,988
Tell us about your idea
and how global citizens
295
00:16:29,118 --> 00:16:31,207
can save our common oceans.
296
00:16:31,338 --> 00:16:33,427
The ocean is absolutely vital
297
00:16:33,557 --> 00:16:36,038
to all planetary life systems.
298
00:16:36,169 --> 00:16:38,345
I call it the blue
heart of the planet.
299
00:16:43,393 --> 00:16:48,529
I met Ghislaine at a party at
the Four Seasons restaurant.
300
00:16:48,659 --> 00:16:51,401
There was a lot of
major celebrities there,
301
00:16:51,532 --> 00:16:53,708
a lot of air kissing going on.
302
00:16:53,838 --> 00:16:55,840
She knew a lot of people there.
303
00:16:55,970 --> 00:16:58,408
I thought she was
utterly charming.
304
00:16:58,539 --> 00:17:01,020
I had no clue, um,
305
00:17:01,150 --> 00:17:03,283
that she was involved
in any of these things.
306
00:17:03,412 --> 00:17:05,285
The thing that she
talked about the most
307
00:17:05,415 --> 00:17:07,417
was, of course, the ocean.
308
00:17:07,547 --> 00:17:11,900
I mean, in many ways, the
ocean became like her baby.
309
00:17:12,031 --> 00:17:15,817
Your excellencies, presidents,
lords, ladies and gentlemen,
310
00:17:15,947 --> 00:17:18,211
um, I just would like
to thank you so much,
311
00:17:18,341 --> 00:17:20,300
and it's such a
honor to be here.
312
00:17:20,430 --> 00:17:22,519
Who doesn't wanna
have a clean ocean?
313
00:17:22,650 --> 00:17:25,435
I mean, it's, you know, it's
kind of a worthy project.
314
00:17:25,566 --> 00:17:27,196
[Ghislaine] All you're signing
is that you want the ocean
315
00:17:27,220 --> 00:17:28,917
to be sustainably managed.
316
00:17:29,048 --> 00:17:31,398
And that is the message we're
bringing here. Thank you.
317
00:17:31,528 --> 00:17:32,528
[man] Thank you.
318
00:17:35,402 --> 00:17:38,840
At the end of the night,
the party's breaking up,
319
00:17:38,970 --> 00:17:42,235
and she asked me, "Can
you give me a lift home?"
320
00:17:42,322 --> 00:17:44,237
I drove her home
and dropped her off
321
00:17:44,367 --> 00:17:46,065
in front of her townhouse.
322
00:17:46,195 --> 00:17:49,416
And then she made this
astonishing offer.
323
00:17:49,546 --> 00:17:53,855
She says to me, uh, "If
you come in and fuck me,
324
00:17:53,985 --> 00:17:56,510
I will tell you the
secrets of my father."
325
00:17:57,728 --> 00:18:00,514
I was completely speechless,
326
00:18:00,601 --> 00:18:02,907
and I came up with
a very lame excuse
327
00:18:03,038 --> 00:18:05,867
that I needed to go
home and walk the dog.
328
00:18:05,997 --> 00:18:09,349
And she knew it was a
kind of a BS excuse,
329
00:18:09,436 --> 00:18:12,352
but she gave me a kiss on
the cheek and she said,
330
00:18:12,482 --> 00:18:14,441
uh, you know, "Hope
to see you soon."
331
00:18:14,571 --> 00:18:16,791
It's kind of like, by day,
332
00:18:16,921 --> 00:18:19,750
she's very, very involved
333
00:18:19,837 --> 00:18:24,015
in trying to save the oceans
uh, and-and fix the world,
334
00:18:24,146 --> 00:18:28,324
but by night, it's like turning
into Dracula or something.
335
00:18:28,455 --> 00:18:30,413
It was like a switch.
336
00:18:32,241 --> 00:18:35,723
[Celhia de Lavarene] I just
came back from uh, Haiti,
337
00:18:35,853 --> 00:18:40,031
where children are
trafficked for sex.
338
00:18:40,162 --> 00:18:44,166
And I wanted to open
uh, a safe uh, haven,
339
00:18:44,297 --> 00:18:47,604
if we can say, to
help those kids.
340
00:18:47,735 --> 00:18:52,218
And my friend decided to have
a fundraising event for that.
341
00:18:52,305 --> 00:18:55,699
I hear that uh,
Ghislaine Maxwell came.
342
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:58,702
I don't know why she
was in the picture.
343
00:18:58,789 --> 00:19:01,792
I didn't even know who she was.
344
00:19:01,923 --> 00:19:05,492
I guess it's because the
French ambassador was there
345
00:19:05,622 --> 00:19:07,494
and she wanted to look good.
346
00:19:07,624 --> 00:19:11,367
She was in the picture
and then she left.
347
00:19:11,498 --> 00:19:14,240
I know one thing.
348
00:19:14,370 --> 00:19:21,072
That woman you're talking about,
uh, Maxwell, did not give a cent.
349
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,555
[Boies] The way she was
able to manipulate the media
350
00:19:25,686 --> 00:19:29,342
to think of her as a,
quote, environmentalist,
351
00:19:29,472 --> 00:19:33,433
um, as opposed to
a sex trafficker,
352
00:19:33,563 --> 00:19:36,566
um, probably continued
to contribute
353
00:19:36,697 --> 00:19:41,049
to her sense of being above
the law, of being invulnerable.
354
00:19:41,180 --> 00:19:43,182
I think it led her
355
00:19:43,312 --> 00:19:46,489
to be perhaps careless.
356
00:19:46,620 --> 00:19:50,014
It may have contributed
to her ultimate undoing.
357
00:19:55,716 --> 00:19:58,371
[reporter] Emotions running high
in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial.
358
00:19:58,501 --> 00:20:01,374
A tearful accuser
said she was 14
359
00:20:01,504 --> 00:20:04,855
when Maxwell told her
she had a great body
360
00:20:04,986 --> 00:20:07,510
for Jeffrey Epstein
and his friends.
361
00:20:09,425 --> 00:20:12,341
We're up to our third accuser,
and her name is Carolyn.
362
00:20:12,472 --> 00:20:15,431
She is testifying
under her first name,
363
00:20:15,562 --> 00:20:20,001
and she is the second accuser
to allege that Ghislaine Maxwell
364
00:20:20,088 --> 00:20:23,657
had fondled her breasts
when she was 14 years old.
365
00:20:23,787 --> 00:20:26,486
She said she was brought
into Epstein's orbit
366
00:20:26,616 --> 00:20:29,097
via Virginia Giuffre, Roberts,
367
00:20:29,228 --> 00:20:31,969
who was a-a very key figure
368
00:20:32,056 --> 00:20:34,755
in the whole Ghislaine
Maxwell saga.
369
00:20:36,931 --> 00:20:40,978
Virginia was one of the first
people, if not the first person,
370
00:20:41,109 --> 00:20:44,068
to come forward
with the evidence
371
00:20:44,199 --> 00:20:47,420
that not only were
Epstein and Maxwell
372
00:20:47,550 --> 00:20:49,726
abusing young women themselves,
373
00:20:49,857 --> 00:20:51,728
but they were
actually trafficking
374
00:20:51,859 --> 00:20:53,426
young women to other men.
375
00:20:55,079 --> 00:20:57,995
The highest profile person
376
00:20:58,082 --> 00:21:01,085
that uh, Virginia uh, identified
377
00:21:01,216 --> 00:21:04,480
as someone to whom
she was trafficked
378
00:21:04,567 --> 00:21:08,179
by Epstein and Maxwell
was Prince Andrew.
379
00:21:22,933 --> 00:21:25,719
Ghislaine woke me up in
the morning, excited,
380
00:21:25,849 --> 00:21:28,504
and she said, "You're
gonna meet a prince today."
381
00:21:28,635 --> 00:21:30,767
Ghislaine said, "He's
coming back to the house,
382
00:21:30,854 --> 00:21:33,944
and I want you to do for him
what you do for Epstein."
383
00:21:34,075 --> 00:21:37,948
The abuse went on for a
little bit in the bathroom,
384
00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:39,602
and then it continued
to the bedroom,
385
00:21:39,733 --> 00:21:43,084
and he wasn't rude
or anything about it,
386
00:21:43,214 --> 00:21:45,042
he said, you know, thank you.
387
00:21:47,262 --> 00:21:51,092
[Boies] My first reaction
was did this really happen?
388
00:21:51,222 --> 00:21:53,399
You know, is it-is
it really true?
389
00:21:53,486 --> 00:21:56,793
To hear that...
390
00:21:58,404 --> 00:22:01,494
a member of the royal family,
391
00:22:01,624 --> 00:22:03,496
a prince of England, uh,
392
00:22:03,626 --> 00:22:07,630
was engaged in that conduct, um,
393
00:22:07,761 --> 00:22:10,111
was-was something that
I found surprising,
394
00:22:10,241 --> 00:22:12,722
uh, shocking, disturbing.
395
00:22:12,853 --> 00:22:15,725
Sex trafficking tends to be
something that you associate
396
00:22:15,856 --> 00:22:17,771
with Third World countries.
397
00:22:17,901 --> 00:22:19,947
It's not something
that you think happens
398
00:22:20,077 --> 00:22:22,428
in the United States,
in the United Kingdom.
399
00:22:29,391 --> 00:22:32,263
She said she had sex
with you three times.
400
00:22:32,351 --> 00:22:35,310
Once in a London house when
she was trafficked to you.
401
00:22:35,441 --> 00:22:36,790
- In Maxwell's house.
- Yes.
402
00:22:36,877 --> 00:22:38,661
Once in New York,
403
00:22:38,792 --> 00:22:41,229
a month or so later,
at Epstein's mansion.
404
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:43,797
And once on his private island
405
00:22:43,927 --> 00:22:46,495
in a group of seven
or eight other girls.
406
00:22:49,063 --> 00:22:50,238
No.
407
00:22:50,891 --> 00:22:52,762
She says she dined with you,
408
00:22:52,849 --> 00:22:56,026
danced with you at Tramp
nightclub in London.
409
00:22:56,113 --> 00:23:00,161
She went on to have sex with
you in a house in Belgravia
410
00:23:00,291 --> 00:23:03,033
belonging to Ghislaine
Maxwell, your friend.
411
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:04,120
Your response?
412
00:23:04,208 --> 00:23:05,906
I have no recollection
413
00:23:06,036 --> 00:23:08,343
of ever meeting this lady.
414
00:23:10,911 --> 00:23:13,609
[McCawley] I talked to
my partner, David Boies,
415
00:23:13,740 --> 00:23:16,873
and he said, "I have this
new case that's come in
416
00:23:17,004 --> 00:23:18,745
that I think really
is suited for you
417
00:23:18,875 --> 00:23:22,183
because of the work you've
done um, in foster care
418
00:23:22,313 --> 00:23:25,491
and with sex
trafficking victims."
419
00:23:25,621 --> 00:23:29,190
I went to New York and
I met with Virginia,
420
00:23:29,277 --> 00:23:31,714
and within moments
of that meeting,
421
00:23:31,845 --> 00:23:35,979
my life really turned
upside down in many ways.
422
00:23:36,110 --> 00:23:38,895
Virginia made public that
Maxwell had been involved
423
00:23:39,026 --> 00:23:41,289
at the head of the
sex trafficking scheme
424
00:23:41,376 --> 00:23:43,378
along with Epstein.
425
00:23:43,465 --> 00:23:45,400
[reporter] Can I ask you about
the- the-all the allegations
426
00:23:45,424 --> 00:23:46,624
that have come out, Ghislaine?
427
00:23:48,949 --> 00:23:50,820
Have you got no comment at all?
428
00:23:50,951 --> 00:23:53,388
I've made a
statement. Thank you.
429
00:23:53,519 --> 00:23:57,000
Then Maxwell came forward
and made the statement
430
00:23:57,131 --> 00:24:01,178
that Virginia's claims
were, quote, obvious lies.
431
00:24:01,309 --> 00:24:04,051
That gave us the hook to be able
to sue Maxwell for defamation,
432
00:24:04,181 --> 00:24:06,227
and that really
started the journey
433
00:24:06,357 --> 00:24:09,230
in being able to hold
Maxwell accountable
434
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:11,145
for the crimes she committed.
435
00:24:11,275 --> 00:24:15,410
We were a tight female team,
and we just dug into it.
436
00:24:15,541 --> 00:24:17,412
We pieced together
the flight logs
437
00:24:17,543 --> 00:24:19,501
in a way that no
one ever had before,
438
00:24:19,632 --> 00:24:21,372
to really map that out
439
00:24:21,460 --> 00:24:24,463
and understand the
trafficking scheme as a whole.
440
00:24:24,593 --> 00:24:26,290
We had the police reports
441
00:24:26,421 --> 00:24:30,120
from the 2005
investigation in Florida
442
00:24:30,207 --> 00:24:32,862
that showed Maxwell at
the centerpiece of this,
443
00:24:32,949 --> 00:24:35,691
helping arrange the girls,
being very active there,
444
00:24:35,778 --> 00:24:37,911
despite her claims
that she was not.
445
00:24:38,041 --> 00:24:40,914
We spoke to many, many survivors
446
00:24:41,044 --> 00:24:43,264
of Epstein and Maxwell's abuse.
447
00:24:43,394 --> 00:24:46,310
Some of those survivors
uh, would say,
448
00:24:46,441 --> 00:24:48,530
"I-I can't give you any
information. I'm too scared."
449
00:24:48,661 --> 00:24:51,315
It was a very scary time period.
450
00:24:51,446 --> 00:24:55,494
I myself had threats and
I was scared at times.
451
00:24:55,624 --> 00:24:59,193
I also had people following me.
452
00:24:59,323 --> 00:25:01,848
As you can imagine, there are
incredibly powerful people
453
00:25:01,978 --> 00:25:05,329
who are involved in this
sex trafficking scheme.
454
00:25:05,460 --> 00:25:06,548
They certainly didn't like
455
00:25:06,679 --> 00:25:08,724
that I was turning over stones,
456
00:25:08,855 --> 00:25:10,509
finding out more information.
457
00:25:19,779 --> 00:25:21,694
Maxwell's deposition
is significant
458
00:25:21,824 --> 00:25:24,566
because it's really the
only document we have
459
00:25:24,697 --> 00:25:27,700
that shows testimony
she has given
460
00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:30,920
about the sexual
trafficking scheme.
461
00:25:31,051 --> 00:25:33,357
One of the things that
stood out to me right away
462
00:25:33,488 --> 00:25:37,579
was how obstructionist
Maxwell was going to be.
463
00:25:37,710 --> 00:25:40,147
I asked her a-a pretty
simple question,
464
00:25:40,234 --> 00:25:43,324
"So, Miss Maxwell, when did
you first recruit a female
465
00:25:43,454 --> 00:25:45,500
to work for Mr. Epstein?"
466
00:25:45,631 --> 00:25:49,199
She said, "I don't understand
what you mean by female."
467
00:25:49,330 --> 00:25:51,724
"I don't understand what
you mean by recruit."
468
00:25:51,854 --> 00:25:54,161
"Please be more
specific and clear."
469
00:25:54,291 --> 00:25:58,078
So that just shows
you how difficult
470
00:25:58,165 --> 00:26:00,384
she was willing to
make that deposition,
471
00:26:00,515 --> 00:26:03,387
how she was going
to stop at nothing
472
00:26:03,518 --> 00:26:06,260
to um, not give information.
473
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:08,107
Maxwell definitely had
an air of entitlement,
474
00:26:08,131 --> 00:26:10,438
is the best way I
can describe it.
475
00:26:10,525 --> 00:26:12,745
"How dare you bring me
into a conference room
476
00:26:12,875 --> 00:26:14,398
and ask me questions."
477
00:26:14,485 --> 00:26:17,097
"I know presidents.
I know princes,
478
00:26:17,227 --> 00:26:18,664
and I should not be bothered
479
00:26:18,794 --> 00:26:21,144
with these kinds
of allegations."
480
00:26:21,275 --> 00:26:24,278
There was another significant
moment in the deposition
481
00:26:24,408 --> 00:26:28,064
where she actually gets so
frustrated with me and so angry
482
00:26:28,195 --> 00:26:31,851
that she slams her fist on
my conference room table,
483
00:26:31,981 --> 00:26:33,809
causing my court reporter's
484
00:26:33,940 --> 00:26:36,290
uh, stenographer
machine to fall over.
485
00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:38,422
And my court
reporter looked at me
486
00:26:38,553 --> 00:26:39,859
and said, "I'm so scared."
487
00:26:39,989 --> 00:26:42,078
In that moment, I realized
488
00:26:42,165 --> 00:26:44,994
what the women that I
represent have gone through,
489
00:26:45,081 --> 00:26:47,562
and to-to see how
willing she was
490
00:26:47,693 --> 00:26:49,053
to come forward in
that environment
491
00:26:49,129 --> 00:26:51,827
and attack at this level
492
00:26:51,958 --> 00:26:56,005
um, just confirmed everything
that I knew about her.
493
00:26:56,136 --> 00:27:00,575
In the final analysis, they paid
a lot of money to resolve it.
494
00:27:00,706 --> 00:27:03,404
The result of the
defamation case
495
00:27:03,534 --> 00:27:05,232
was very important to Virginia,
496
00:27:05,319 --> 00:27:09,062
not only because of the
economic security it gave her,
497
00:27:09,192 --> 00:27:11,717
but also it was a vindication.
498
00:27:11,804 --> 00:27:15,198
Remember, she had been
accused by Maxwell
499
00:27:15,329 --> 00:27:16,983
of making this all up.
500
00:27:17,113 --> 00:27:19,942
I sometimes felt angry
501
00:27:20,073 --> 00:27:23,642
at the way she dismissed
502
00:27:23,729 --> 00:27:26,035
the victims of the
sex trafficking,
503
00:27:26,166 --> 00:27:30,866
but there were times when
I-I felt sorry for her too.
504
00:27:30,953 --> 00:27:33,390
You know, I tried to understand
505
00:27:33,477 --> 00:27:39,440
what led somebody
to do these things.
506
00:27:39,527 --> 00:27:41,964
I would never describe
her as a victim,
507
00:27:43,618 --> 00:27:45,620
but I would describe her
508
00:27:45,707 --> 00:27:50,930
as a damaged human being,
509
00:27:51,060 --> 00:27:54,629
and what caused that
damage, I don't know.
510
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,284
I've never been
able to understand
511
00:27:57,414 --> 00:28:01,288
why after our civil
litigation was resolved,
512
00:28:01,418 --> 00:28:05,292
Maxwell did not go
to the prosecutors
513
00:28:05,379 --> 00:28:07,120
and try to do a deal.
514
00:28:07,250 --> 00:28:08,904
She could have
given them Epstein.
515
00:28:09,035 --> 00:28:10,863
Now, maybe she was just still
516
00:28:10,993 --> 00:28:15,911
too under Epstein's sway,
517
00:28:16,042 --> 00:28:19,219
but she somehow almost seemed
518
00:28:19,349 --> 00:28:22,222
to put that out of her mind
519
00:28:22,352 --> 00:28:26,269
and go forward uh, as is-
as if it didn't happen.
520
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,317
She should have known that
her days were numbered.
521
00:28:38,455 --> 00:28:42,764
[Anne McElvoy] She started to
turn up more again in London
522
00:28:42,895 --> 00:28:45,549
in the late 20 teens.
523
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,117
I felt that was
probably quite shrewd
524
00:28:48,248 --> 00:28:50,380
and strategic on her part,
525
00:28:50,511 --> 00:28:53,035
that she wanted
something that was away
526
00:28:53,122 --> 00:28:54,863
from the whole Epstein story.
527
00:28:54,994 --> 00:28:57,736
I think probably also
she wanted to know
528
00:28:57,866 --> 00:29:00,826
if London was still
talking to her.
529
00:29:00,956 --> 00:29:04,090
Things were clearly still
unraveling at a-at a rate,
530
00:29:04,220 --> 00:29:08,137
of which I certainly was
not aware at the time.
531
00:29:08,268 --> 00:29:10,313
You would never be able to tell,
532
00:29:10,444 --> 00:29:12,074
if you met Ghislaine
Maxwell, what was going on.
533
00:29:12,098 --> 00:29:14,448
I mean, it was always
the same smooth,
534
00:29:14,578 --> 00:29:16,624
ocean-going confidence.
535
00:29:16,755 --> 00:29:18,626
I met her uh, through friends
536
00:29:18,757 --> 00:29:22,586
who'd brought her to a
party that we were at.
537
00:29:22,717 --> 00:29:25,764
We talked about
our Oxford years.
538
00:29:25,894 --> 00:29:28,288
And she said "It was a
great time, wasn't it?"
539
00:29:28,418 --> 00:29:30,333
And I said, "Yeah,
it was a great time."
540
00:29:30,464 --> 00:29:33,119
And she said, "Yes,
it's... it's sad, isn't it,
541
00:29:33,249 --> 00:29:35,556
how things turn out?"
542
00:29:40,474 --> 00:29:42,084
[newsreader] A judge
ruled this afternoon
543
00:29:42,171 --> 00:29:44,608
that federal prosecutors
broke the law
544
00:29:44,739 --> 00:29:47,786
when they signed a plea
agreement with Jeffrey Epstein.
545
00:29:47,916 --> 00:29:49,483
That's because the
agreement was hidden
546
00:29:49,613 --> 00:29:51,833
from 30 of his underage victims.
547
00:29:51,964 --> 00:29:53,617
The case received
renewed attention
548
00:29:53,748 --> 00:29:55,445
after theMiami Herald published
549
00:29:55,576 --> 00:29:57,708
a lengthy investigation
into the plea deal.
550
00:30:08,719 --> 00:30:11,984
[Christina Oxenberg]
January 2019,
551
00:30:12,114 --> 00:30:15,422
oddly enough she likes,
552
00:30:15,509 --> 00:30:18,817
clicks "like", on an
Instagram post of mine.
553
00:30:18,904 --> 00:30:21,602
And her timing was
pretty appalling
554
00:30:21,732 --> 00:30:23,865
because by now I
know everything,
555
00:30:23,996 --> 00:30:27,260
and I'm furious, I'm appalled,
556
00:30:27,347 --> 00:30:29,392
I'm disgusted.
557
00:30:29,479 --> 00:30:31,873
Because 20 years ago,
558
00:30:32,004 --> 00:30:35,790
Ghislaine told me that she
recruits three girls a day,
559
00:30:35,921 --> 00:30:39,185
but she was using
the word "girls."
560
00:30:39,315 --> 00:30:42,318
I literally just thought
she was just talking about
561
00:30:42,449 --> 00:30:44,886
human beings, women.
562
00:30:45,017 --> 00:30:48,411
In that article,
I see all of that,
563
00:30:48,542 --> 00:30:52,807
and I'm horrified...
564
00:30:52,938 --> 00:30:55,679
that she was talking
about children.
565
00:30:55,810 --> 00:30:57,551
We had been discussing children.
566
00:30:57,681 --> 00:31:00,684
It was hard to take on, um...
567
00:31:00,815 --> 00:31:03,470
on a lot of levels,
because, um...
568
00:31:04,775 --> 00:31:08,127
I felt responsible, in a way,
569
00:31:08,257 --> 00:31:09,868
that I had known information
570
00:31:13,349 --> 00:31:16,091
that could have maybe
made a difference.
571
00:31:16,222 --> 00:31:19,268
And, um, I felt sick.
572
00:31:19,399 --> 00:31:22,054
I was disgusted with her.
573
00:31:22,184 --> 00:31:26,667
I felt I had let humanity down.
574
00:31:26,797 --> 00:31:30,105
And yet I didn't know
what I didn't know.
575
00:31:38,984 --> 00:31:41,595
The billionaire American
financier Jeffrey Epstein
576
00:31:41,725 --> 00:31:44,337
has been formally charged
with the sex trafficking
577
00:31:44,467 --> 00:31:47,601
of dozens of underage
teenage girls.
578
00:31:47,731 --> 00:31:51,518
The alleged behavior
shocks the conscience.
579
00:31:51,648 --> 00:31:56,131
And while the charge conduct
is from a number of years ago,
580
00:31:56,218 --> 00:31:58,220
it is still profoundly important
581
00:31:58,307 --> 00:32:02,616
to the many alleged
victims, now young women.
582
00:32:02,746 --> 00:32:06,359
They deserve their day in court.
583
00:32:06,489 --> 00:32:08,491
[McCawley] This is a
great day for victims,
584
00:32:08,622 --> 00:32:12,800
and I am humbled and
inspired by their voices.
585
00:32:12,931 --> 00:32:15,194
Our clients are
extremely gratified
586
00:32:15,324 --> 00:32:17,979
that these charges have
finally been brought.
587
00:32:22,679 --> 00:32:27,206
[reporter] Jeffrey Epstein found
dead in an apparent suicide.
588
00:32:27,293 --> 00:32:29,773
The financier,
arrested on charges
589
00:32:29,860 --> 00:32:31,819
that he ran a sex
trafficking ring,
590
00:32:31,950 --> 00:32:34,778
apparently killed
himself today in prison.
591
00:32:34,865 --> 00:32:36,998
[reporter] He took
the easy way out,
592
00:32:37,085 --> 00:32:38,565
not having to face justice,
593
00:32:38,695 --> 00:32:40,959
not having to face the victims,
594
00:32:41,046 --> 00:32:42,980
And now it's entirely possible
this entire-this entire thing
595
00:32:43,004 --> 00:32:45,180
may be put in a file
and never seen again.
596
00:32:47,704 --> 00:32:50,881
[Helm] I had plugged
my phone in to charge,
597
00:32:51,012 --> 00:32:52,772
and when I plugged it in, I
accidentally had swiped it
598
00:32:52,796 --> 00:32:54,450
to, like, the news thing.
599
00:32:54,581 --> 00:32:57,279
Then there was his face.
600
00:32:57,366 --> 00:33:00,848
I looked at this
headline, and it read:
601
00:33:00,979 --> 00:33:05,374
"Jeffrey Epstein found in
fetal position in jail cell."
602
00:33:05,505 --> 00:33:07,898
I was shaking, you know.
603
00:33:08,029 --> 00:33:10,640
My heart was racing.
I was scared.
604
00:33:10,771 --> 00:33:12,512
I was... I was crying.
605
00:33:12,642 --> 00:33:15,863
I... I didn't know what to do.
606
00:33:15,994 --> 00:33:18,126
I had spent 17 years
607
00:33:18,257 --> 00:33:22,696
replaying all of
that countless times.
608
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:29,224
And I had spent 17 years...
609
00:33:32,010 --> 00:33:36,362
keeping that in a very,
very tightly sealed,
610
00:33:36,492 --> 00:33:40,453
buttoned-up space of shame.
611
00:33:40,540 --> 00:33:45,110
It was like a re-traumatization
all over again.
612
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,068
It was...
613
00:33:47,155 --> 00:33:51,594
The world, you know, shifted.
614
00:33:51,725 --> 00:33:54,379
But I knew, that was that
moment that I was, like,
615
00:33:54,510 --> 00:34:00,038
"You are not gonna sit here
anymore and stay silent."
616
00:34:03,737 --> 00:34:06,870
"It's not how Jeffrey died,
but it's how he lived,
617
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,656
and we need to get to the bottom
618
00:34:09,786 --> 00:34:12,571
of everybody who was
involved with that,
619
00:34:12,702 --> 00:34:14,225
starting with Ghislaine Maxwell.
620
00:34:14,356 --> 00:34:17,359
I went to New York City
621
00:34:17,490 --> 00:34:20,100
and spoke in federal court
622
00:34:20,232 --> 00:34:23,191
in August of 2019.
623
00:34:23,321 --> 00:34:26,542
I said, "Ghislaine Maxwell
needs to be held accountable
624
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:30,633
because she's what
got me there."
625
00:34:30,763 --> 00:34:34,462
She groomed me to walk myself
626
00:34:34,594 --> 00:34:36,813
to the home of a
predator willingly.
627
00:34:36,944 --> 00:34:39,077
If it were not for her,
628
00:34:39,207 --> 00:34:42,906
I would not have been abused.
629
00:34:43,037 --> 00:34:44,865
Jeffrey Epstein may be dead,
630
00:34:44,995 --> 00:34:49,826
but the investigation continues
into his web of abuse.
631
00:34:49,913 --> 00:34:51,959
According to new reports,
632
00:34:52,046 --> 00:34:54,701
the FBI has launched
an investigation
633
00:34:54,831 --> 00:34:57,486
of the British socialite
Ghislaine Maxwell.
634
00:34:57,617 --> 00:34:59,271
The big question,
Lady Victoria, now
635
00:34:59,401 --> 00:35:01,577
is where is Ghislaine Maxwell?
636
00:35:01,664 --> 00:35:04,406
You knew her well. When did you
last have any contact with her?
637
00:35:04,537 --> 00:35:09,063
I haven't seen her since
September last year.
638
00:35:09,194 --> 00:35:12,153
Um, I don't think
we'll... you're gonna...
639
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:13,502
No one's gonna find her.
640
00:35:13,633 --> 00:35:15,765
[ticking]
641
00:35:19,421 --> 00:35:22,511
[reporter] For months, prosecutors
say Ghislaine Maxwell hid away
642
00:35:22,642 --> 00:35:24,339
in this New Hampshire mansion.
643
00:35:24,470 --> 00:35:28,213
But Thursday, FBI
agents moved in.
644
00:35:28,300 --> 00:35:29,866
[woman] Good morning.
645
00:35:29,953 --> 00:35:31,520
Today we announce charges
646
00:35:31,607 --> 00:35:33,696
against Ghislaine Maxwell
647
00:35:33,827 --> 00:35:39,049
for helping Jeffrey Epstein
sexually exploit and abuse
648
00:35:39,137 --> 00:35:41,530
multiple minor girls
649
00:35:41,661 --> 00:35:47,014
who were as young
as 14 years old.
650
00:35:47,101 --> 00:35:50,974
The moment I got the phone call
that Maxwell had been arrested,
651
00:35:51,061 --> 00:35:53,412
I called all of my clients.
652
00:35:53,542 --> 00:35:56,589
I remember crying on
the phone with them.
653
00:35:56,676 --> 00:35:59,418
It was around nine
o'clock in the morning,
654
00:35:59,548 --> 00:36:02,812
and I got a phone
call from my lawyer,
655
00:36:02,943 --> 00:36:06,990
and she let me know that
Ghislaine had been arrested.
656
00:36:07,077 --> 00:36:11,169
And... I... It wa...
657
00:36:11,299 --> 00:36:13,606
I mean, it was like a
cel... It was a celebration.
658
00:36:13,736 --> 00:36:17,871
I was laughing and
crying at the same time.
659
00:36:18,001 --> 00:36:20,439
Today, after many years,
660
00:36:20,569 --> 00:36:24,791
Ghislaine Maxwell
finally stands charged
661
00:36:24,921 --> 00:36:27,315
for her role in these crimes.
662
00:36:27,446 --> 00:36:29,143
She had hoped she
could be released
663
00:36:29,230 --> 00:36:32,146
to a luxury hotel in New
York to wait out the trial,
664
00:36:32,277 --> 00:36:34,844
but ultimately a judge said
there were no set of conditions
665
00:36:34,975 --> 00:36:36,803
that could ensure
she would not flee,
666
00:36:36,933 --> 00:36:38,544
the risk simply too great.
667
00:36:40,850 --> 00:36:42,809
[reporter] After
a life of luxury,
668
00:36:42,939 --> 00:36:45,246
this is now Ghislaine
Maxwell's stone-cold reality.
669
00:36:45,333 --> 00:36:48,728
Denied bail, imprisoned
in solitary confinement,
670
00:36:48,815 --> 00:36:50,686
and heavily guarded here,
671
00:36:50,817 --> 00:36:52,906
at the Metropolitan
Detention Center in Brooklyn,
672
00:36:52,993 --> 00:36:55,996
with her trial at
least a year away.
673
00:36:56,126 --> 00:36:59,826
[Maloney] I'm still
in a state of shock.
674
00:36:59,956 --> 00:37:02,307
I can't believe that Ghislaine
675
00:37:02,394 --> 00:37:05,701
would have stooped
to that level.
676
00:37:05,832 --> 00:37:07,399
I really...
677
00:37:07,529 --> 00:37:09,575
Part of me doesn't
want to believe it,
678
00:37:09,705 --> 00:37:12,708
and part of me
doesn't believe it.
679
00:37:12,839 --> 00:37:15,189
Not the Ghislaine I knew.
680
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,976
But, then again, a lot
can happen in 40 years.
681
00:37:20,107 --> 00:37:21,467
I'm sure that there
are many people
682
00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:23,893
who do not view
Ghislaine Maxwell
683
00:37:24,024 --> 00:37:26,853
through those lenses of
a predator or a monster.
684
00:37:26,983 --> 00:37:31,597
They view her as whatever
fun party they attended,
685
00:37:31,727 --> 00:37:35,253
or whatever holiday
they attended with her.
686
00:37:35,383 --> 00:37:37,733
She's not walking around
687
00:37:37,864 --> 00:37:40,475
shouting to the world
that she was a predator.
688
00:37:40,562 --> 00:37:45,437
She wasn't sharing that at
the holiday parties, you know.
689
00:37:45,524 --> 00:37:47,526
So I don't necessarily
blame folks
690
00:37:47,656 --> 00:37:51,225
that can't see her that way.
691
00:37:51,356 --> 00:37:55,621
I think that sometimes people
have very deep, dark secrets,
692
00:37:55,751 --> 00:37:58,014
and this is a very
deep, dark secret
693
00:37:58,145 --> 00:38:00,321
that she carried on, you know.
694
00:38:00,408 --> 00:38:02,845
The unfortunate
harsh reality it is
695
00:38:02,976 --> 00:38:05,283
for those that love
and care for her.
696
00:38:06,545 --> 00:38:09,069
[ticking]
697
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,203
We're back this
morning with the latest
698
00:38:13,291 --> 00:38:15,597
on the Ghislaine Maxwell
sex trafficking trial.
699
00:38:15,728 --> 00:38:17,947
She denies all of the
charges against her.
700
00:38:18,078 --> 00:38:22,561
[reporter] Three women who say
as teenagers they were exploited
701
00:38:22,691 --> 00:38:25,433
have so far given
evidence at this trial.
702
00:38:28,262 --> 00:38:31,700
Today began the long anticipated
testimony of Annie Farmer,
703
00:38:31,787 --> 00:38:33,702
the only accusing witness
704
00:38:33,789 --> 00:38:36,009
stepping forward against
Ghislaine Maxwell
705
00:38:36,139 --> 00:38:37,924
in her real name.
706
00:38:38,054 --> 00:38:41,536
And it began with the
prosecution saying,
707
00:38:41,667 --> 00:38:43,451
"Is there anyone
in this courtroom
708
00:38:43,582 --> 00:38:45,410
who has ever given
you a massage?"
709
00:38:45,540 --> 00:38:49,762
And she said yes and
identified the defendant.
710
00:38:49,892 --> 00:38:53,156
She said that she
was asked to disrobe
711
00:38:53,287 --> 00:38:57,900
and told to turn around,
lying on her back,
712
00:38:57,987 --> 00:39:00,816
that Ghislaine Maxwell
pulled down the sheet,
713
00:39:00,947 --> 00:39:04,080
exposing her breast and
touching her breast.
714
00:39:06,126 --> 00:39:09,042
It was definitely Ghislaine
who asked me first
715
00:39:09,172 --> 00:39:11,261
about my sister Annie.
716
00:39:13,089 --> 00:39:16,702
Because I was always bragging
about her to everyone.
717
00:39:16,832 --> 00:39:18,660
I mean, she was my whole
world, so I was like,
718
00:39:18,747 --> 00:39:20,749
"Oh, my gosh, my
sister's the smartest,
719
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,491
the most beautiful,
the most angelic."
720
00:39:23,578 --> 00:39:25,798
And I had definitely
bragged about her
721
00:39:25,928 --> 00:39:28,278
to Epstein and to Ghislaine.
722
00:39:28,366 --> 00:39:31,281
This is in 1995. I
was in Palm Beach.
723
00:39:31,412 --> 00:39:33,719
And I was sitting
outside by the pool,
724
00:39:33,849 --> 00:39:35,329
and Ghislaine was, you know,
725
00:39:35,460 --> 00:39:38,854
leaning on a chaise,
and she said,
726
00:39:38,985 --> 00:39:41,640
"Oh, it's too bad Annie's
not here with us, you know."
727
00:39:41,770 --> 00:39:43,182
"It would be very nice
to have her here."
728
00:39:43,206 --> 00:39:44,730
And I said, "Oh,
she would love it."
729
00:39:44,817 --> 00:39:46,906
"She would have so
much fun, definitely."
730
00:39:59,179 --> 00:40:03,662
Ghislaine's role with Annie
was huge, it-it's everything,
731
00:40:03,792 --> 00:40:08,971
because my mother and
everyone believed,
732
00:40:09,102 --> 00:40:11,583
we all believed, that
Annie would be safe
733
00:40:11,713 --> 00:40:14,063
with a married couple.
734
00:40:14,194 --> 00:40:16,675
They told my mother
that they were married.
735
00:40:16,805 --> 00:40:18,720
They told me they were married,
736
00:40:18,807 --> 00:40:20,983
you know, right when I first
started working for them,
737
00:40:21,114 --> 00:40:22,768
but it was to make us feel safe.
738
00:40:22,898 --> 00:40:26,859
Because what woman is gonna
attack a child, right?
739
00:40:26,946 --> 00:40:28,730
We didn't know that
women did that.
740
00:40:28,861 --> 00:40:32,038
And we didn't understand
when we found out
741
00:40:32,168 --> 00:40:34,214
how a woman could
participate in this.
742
00:40:34,344 --> 00:40:36,216
It was really the
most shocking part.
743
00:40:44,093 --> 00:40:47,053
[Klasfeld] So, after two
very brisk weeks of trial,
744
00:40:47,183 --> 00:40:49,272
the government has rested,
745
00:40:49,403 --> 00:40:52,580
and it's rested with
this explosive testimony
746
00:40:52,711 --> 00:40:54,626
from Annie Farmer.
747
00:40:54,756 --> 00:40:56,454
The other witnesses were crying
748
00:40:56,584 --> 00:40:59,631
as they recounted these
really troubling memories.
749
00:40:59,718 --> 00:41:01,676
With Annie Farmer, it's
a different dynamic.
750
00:41:01,763 --> 00:41:04,374
It's the unflappable
Annie Farmer.
751
00:41:04,505 --> 00:41:06,681
I did tell Annie
that I was very...
752
00:41:06,768 --> 00:41:08,378
I- that I was very proud of her,
753
00:41:08,466 --> 00:41:12,905
that she... that
she was so brave.
754
00:41:13,035 --> 00:41:16,778
She did it for everybody, like
Virginia and Teresa and myself.
755
00:41:16,909 --> 00:41:19,259
She's just that
generous, you know,
756
00:41:19,389 --> 00:41:21,435
that she would be
thinking of everyone.
757
00:41:21,566 --> 00:41:24,482
This trial is
incredibly important
758
00:41:24,569 --> 00:41:26,614
for everyone who's
ever suffered,
759
00:41:26,745 --> 00:41:30,052
I think, any kind
of sexual abuse.
760
00:41:30,183 --> 00:41:33,229
I'm concerned, very
concerned, if she's released.
761
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,015
Um, if she's not
held accountable,
762
00:41:36,145 --> 00:41:38,974
that would be very damaging.
763
00:41:39,105 --> 00:41:43,239
I reported this thing 26 years
ago to the federal government.
764
00:41:43,370 --> 00:41:47,853
They nursed it, allowed it to
exist very clearly for 26 years.
765
00:41:47,983 --> 00:41:49,637
And it just makes me really mad
766
00:41:49,768 --> 00:41:53,119
that, um, these people
are able to get away
767
00:41:53,249 --> 00:41:54,990
with abusing as many
people as they do,
768
00:41:55,121 --> 00:41:57,166
'cause you don't recover
from those things.
769
00:41:57,253 --> 00:42:00,343
They have all that power,
all that credibility,
770
00:42:00,474 --> 00:42:03,782
and Ghislaine gave... lent
that credibility to Epstein.
771
00:42:03,912 --> 00:42:05,740
That's what she provided
in this charade.
772
00:42:05,871 --> 00:42:07,655
What it did do to
me, this experience,
773
00:42:07,786 --> 00:42:09,048
is it took away my trust
774
00:42:09,178 --> 00:42:11,311
in every human
being on this earth,
775
00:42:11,441 --> 00:42:13,356
because if you can't
trust the people
776
00:42:13,487 --> 00:42:16,838
who are running the whole
show, who can you trust?
777
00:42:21,147 --> 00:42:24,542
[Helm] Walking into
that courtroom,
778
00:42:24,672 --> 00:42:29,851
my body was shaking,
my heart was racing.
779
00:42:29,982 --> 00:42:33,420
Being in the same
room with Ghislaine
780
00:42:33,551 --> 00:42:37,424
for the first time in 19 years,
781
00:42:37,555 --> 00:42:42,037
I was overwhelmed physically.
782
00:42:42,168 --> 00:42:45,824
Her and I looked
straight at one another.
783
00:42:45,954 --> 00:42:49,697
I didn't look away,
not... I didn't blink.
784
00:42:49,828 --> 00:42:51,220
She looked away.
785
00:42:54,659 --> 00:43:00,012
This is me asserting my
freedom, and asserting my power,
786
00:43:00,142 --> 00:43:04,494
and taking back what
was taken from me.
787
00:43:08,890 --> 00:43:11,240
But I couldn't help but notice,
788
00:43:11,371 --> 00:43:13,416
some of her body
language, you know,
789
00:43:13,547 --> 00:43:16,463
just tossing her hair all about,
790
00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:19,335
like, she didn't
really come across
791
00:43:19,422 --> 00:43:24,079
as someone fearful of outcomes.
792
00:43:24,210 --> 00:43:27,256
And that seems to be what
she's still carrying,
793
00:43:27,387 --> 00:43:34,612
that presumption that all
will turn out in her favor,
794
00:43:34,699 --> 00:43:39,094
and that's someone
that's unwell.
795
00:43:39,225 --> 00:43:42,141
That's complete disconnect
from what she's done.
796
00:43:42,271 --> 00:43:44,423
[reporter] Now to Lower Manhattan,
where the Ghislaine Maxwell
797
00:43:44,447 --> 00:43:47,842
sex trafficking trial
is now in its 12th day.
798
00:43:47,973 --> 00:43:49,907
Well, first of all, the defense
team for Ghislaine Maxwell,
799
00:43:49,931 --> 00:43:52,412
they did not start off
the day today well at all,
800
00:43:52,499 --> 00:43:54,501
the judge scolding them
801
00:43:54,632 --> 00:43:57,852
for not having some of their
witnesses ready to testify.
802
00:43:57,983 --> 00:44:01,987
Now, one of them is going to
be ignoring a federal subpoena,
803
00:44:02,117 --> 00:44:04,990
another one has COVID,
another one is 81 years old,
804
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,906
lives in the UK and cannot
be here until Monday,
805
00:44:08,036 --> 00:44:11,779
and then a fourth witness
who is scheduled to testify
806
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:13,912
is pleading the Fifth.
807
00:44:19,918 --> 00:44:22,790
[Klasfeld] The defense case
rested only two days in
808
00:44:22,921 --> 00:44:24,618
in the trial of
Ghislaine Maxwell,
809
00:44:24,749 --> 00:44:26,881
and usually when
asked whether or not
810
00:44:27,012 --> 00:44:28,946
a criminal defendant will
testify in their defense,
811
00:44:28,970 --> 00:44:30,406
it's yes or no.
812
00:44:30,537 --> 00:44:32,495
Not Ghislaine
Maxwell. She said:
813
00:44:32,626 --> 00:44:34,976
"Your Honor, the government
has not proven its case
814
00:44:35,063 --> 00:44:36,630
beyond a reasonable doubt,
815
00:44:36,761 --> 00:44:39,894
and so there is no need
for me to testify."
816
00:44:40,025 --> 00:44:41,722
And that's the kind
of Ghislaine Maxwell
817
00:44:41,809 --> 00:44:43,681
we've seen throughout
this trial.
818
00:44:43,811 --> 00:44:46,248
Confident, relaxed,
awaiting a fate
819
00:44:46,379 --> 00:44:48,947
that could see the rest
of her life in prison.
820
00:44:49,077 --> 00:44:51,689
If she's feeling any
sense of panic over that,
821
00:44:51,819 --> 00:44:54,779
she's not putting on a
face that would show that.
822
00:45:04,136 --> 00:45:06,355
[ticking]
823
00:45:12,274 --> 00:45:14,712
[reporter] Breaking news in
the Ghislaine Maxwell trial.
824
00:45:14,842 --> 00:45:17,366
She has been convicted.
825
00:45:17,497 --> 00:45:20,935
[reporter 2] She stood there stony-faced
as the jury read out the verdict.
826
00:45:21,066 --> 00:45:22,894
When the jury filed out,
827
00:45:23,024 --> 00:45:25,940
Ghislaine Maxwell
poured a glass of water,
828
00:45:26,027 --> 00:45:29,814
hugged one of her lawyers and
was led out of the courtroom.
829
00:45:29,944 --> 00:45:32,207
Ghislaine Maxwell
just got convicted
830
00:45:32,338 --> 00:45:34,949
of five of six of the
serious counts against her,
831
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:36,908
including the most
serious counts,
832
00:45:37,038 --> 00:45:38,474
sex trafficking of a minor,
833
00:45:38,605 --> 00:45:41,434
which has a possible
maximum penalty
834
00:45:41,564 --> 00:45:43,262
of 40 years imprisonment.
835
00:45:43,392 --> 00:45:45,090
[camera shutters click]
836
00:45:45,177 --> 00:45:47,527
[reporter] Mr. Maxwell,
Mr. Maxwell,
837
00:45:47,657 --> 00:45:50,095
can we have a statement on
behalf of the family, please?
838
00:45:50,182 --> 00:45:52,010
What is your reaction
to the verdict?
839
00:45:52,140 --> 00:45:56,144
We firmly believe in
Ghislaine's innocence.
840
00:45:56,275 --> 00:45:59,278
Obviously we are very
disappointed with the verdict.
841
00:45:59,408 --> 00:46:02,411
We have already started
working on the appeal.
842
00:46:02,498 --> 00:46:05,414
Everyone, be healthy.
Have a happy new year.
843
00:46:21,909 --> 00:46:25,173
It's a tremendous
relief to be here.
844
00:46:25,304 --> 00:46:28,655
I- I, um, wasn't sure that
this day would ever come,
845
00:46:28,786 --> 00:46:32,964
and uh, I just feel so grateful
that the jury believed us
846
00:46:33,094 --> 00:46:36,141
and sent a strong
message that perpetrators
847
00:46:36,271 --> 00:46:39,927
of sexual abuse and exploitation
will be held accountable,
848
00:46:40,014 --> 00:46:42,712
no matter how much power and
privilege that they have.
849
00:46:44,976 --> 00:46:47,761
[Anne McElvoy] I don't think
the verdict was a shock,
850
00:46:47,892 --> 00:46:51,591
but I did find it-it
made me recoil.
851
00:46:52,853 --> 00:46:56,639
Looking at Ghislaine Maxwell
striding around Oxford
852
00:46:56,770 --> 00:46:59,599
all those years ago,
853
00:46:59,729 --> 00:47:01,775
there was something
very attractive,
854
00:47:01,906 --> 00:47:05,648
very engaging,
commanding about her,
855
00:47:05,735 --> 00:47:09,348
and that did make
her someone you...
856
00:47:09,478 --> 00:47:14,353
people wanted to know,
they enjoyed her company.
857
00:47:14,483 --> 00:47:17,486
And yet those same attributes
858
00:47:17,573 --> 00:47:21,751
were turned to... really to
something very, very wicked.
859
00:47:23,928 --> 00:47:26,408
If you'd said to
me this is where
860
00:47:26,539 --> 00:47:28,019
Ghislaine Maxwell will end up,
861
00:47:28,149 --> 00:47:32,110
this is what you'd be
talking about today,
862
00:47:32,197 --> 00:47:35,243
I'd have said, "That's crazy.
You've got the wrong person."
863
00:47:39,117 --> 00:47:42,294
What Epstein did
864
00:47:42,381 --> 00:47:45,079
is almost a microcosm
865
00:47:45,210 --> 00:47:47,386
of how the world works,
866
00:47:47,516 --> 00:47:49,823
of very rich and powerful people
867
00:47:49,954 --> 00:47:54,697
exploiting people without
that wealth and power.
868
00:47:54,828 --> 00:47:58,876
She was the facilitator
of that rapacity,
869
00:47:59,006 --> 00:48:03,358
that predatory determination
to meet your needs
870
00:48:03,445 --> 00:48:06,622
regardless of
anybody else's costs.
871
00:48:09,016 --> 00:48:12,237
Maxwell did not do this
because Epstein told her to.
872
00:48:12,367 --> 00:48:16,284
She did it in her-her
own agency, her own will.
873
00:48:16,415 --> 00:48:19,809
She chose to perpetrate these
crimes against young victims,
874
00:48:19,940 --> 00:48:22,725
and she benefited
from those crimes.
875
00:48:22,856 --> 00:48:26,207
[Boies] Epstein and Maxwell could
not have accomplished what they did
876
00:48:26,338 --> 00:48:28,427
acting alone.
877
00:48:28,514 --> 00:48:32,953
They could not have had the
scope and scale and duration
878
00:48:33,084 --> 00:48:35,477
of the sexual
trafficking and abuse.
879
00:48:35,608 --> 00:48:40,047
Their collaborators, their
enablers, their coconspirators
880
00:48:40,134 --> 00:48:43,268
are all people who need
to be brought to justice.
881
00:48:43,398 --> 00:48:46,358
The horrible heartache,
882
00:48:46,488 --> 00:48:48,926
collective heartache,
of all of this.
883
00:48:50,753 --> 00:48:53,713
For these two people
884
00:48:53,843 --> 00:48:57,064
to have created
for so many people,
885
00:48:57,195 --> 00:48:58,936
and then so many other
people off of that,
886
00:48:59,066 --> 00:49:01,547
families and parents
and all the other things
887
00:49:01,634 --> 00:49:06,160
that... that stem off of
this, you know, shame on you.
888
00:49:06,291 --> 00:49:08,119
Shame on you, so...
889
00:49:13,733 --> 00:49:15,126
And not on me.
890
00:49:17,171 --> 00:49:22,960
I don't wish... harm.
891
00:49:23,090 --> 00:49:25,658
However, she does not
deserve to be free.
892
00:49:25,788 --> 00:49:28,226
I can only hope
893
00:49:28,313 --> 00:49:31,533
that at some point
894
00:49:31,664 --> 00:49:35,711
she admits to herself
895
00:49:35,842 --> 00:49:37,061
what she's done,
896
00:49:37,191 --> 00:49:39,106
'cause I don't think she has,
897
00:49:39,237 --> 00:49:42,762
at this point... no.
71321
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