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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:20,454 - All right. - I gotta tell you, 2 00:00:20,495 --> 00:00:26,015 I'm real proud to introduce this next artist 3 00:00:26,015 --> 00:00:28,655 whose name's become synonymous 4 00:00:28,655 --> 00:00:32,855 with courage and integrity. 5 00:00:32,894 --> 00:00:35,094 Ladies and gentlemen, Sin�ad O'Connor. 6 00:00:44,816 --> 00:00:45,856 Thank you. 7 00:02:02,022 --> 00:02:04,382 I didn't mean to be strong. 8 00:02:04,382 --> 00:02:06,582 I wasn't thinking to myself, I must be strong. 9 00:02:06,583 --> 00:02:07,743 I didn't know I was strong. 10 00:02:10,863 --> 00:02:14,583 I did suffer through a lot because everybody felt 11 00:02:14,583 --> 00:02:16,423 it was okay to kick the shit out of me. 12 00:02:18,264 --> 00:02:22,024 I regret that I was so sad because of it. 13 00:02:22,063 --> 00:02:24,223 I regret that I spent so many years 14 00:02:24,224 --> 00:02:26,024 very lonely and isolated, really. 15 00:02:34,105 --> 00:02:36,385 Ran down And the lady said it 16 00:02:36,386 --> 00:02:38,226 Got torn down And the priest just said it 17 00:02:40,426 --> 00:02:44,226 Got burned down, ooh 18 00:02:44,225 --> 00:02:49,385 They give me five years Ooh, five years 19 00:02:49,385 --> 00:02:50,745 It's my turn 20 00:02:53,627 --> 00:02:59,147 Oh, oh, Jerusalem 21 00:03:02,907 --> 00:03:08,427 Oh, oh, Jerusalem 22 00:03:16,148 --> 00:03:18,068 There was no therapy when I was growing up. 23 00:03:18,068 --> 00:03:21,388 So the reason I got into music group was therapy, 24 00:03:21,389 --> 00:03:23,189 which is why it was such a shock for me 25 00:03:23,189 --> 00:03:25,629 to become a pop star, it's not what I wanted. 26 00:03:25,628 --> 00:03:28,988 I just wanted to scream. 27 00:03:36,390 --> 00:03:39,710 Everybody in music has a story in terms of their upbringing 28 00:03:39,710 --> 00:03:42,070 or where they came from or what they went through. 29 00:03:43,831 --> 00:03:46,191 There's something they need to get off their chest, 30 00:03:46,190 --> 00:03:48,030 and perhaps we all need a bit of love and affection 31 00:03:48,030 --> 00:03:49,230 that we didn't get anywhere else 32 00:03:49,230 --> 00:03:50,870 but we get by making music. 33 00:03:50,870 --> 00:03:54,430 Come on over there and sit down. 34 00:03:54,471 --> 00:03:57,231 They're all, they're all looking at you, Sin�ad, 35 00:03:57,271 --> 00:03:58,751 out there in television land. 36 00:03:58,791 --> 00:03:59,831 They're saying "Mother of God, 37 00:03:59,872 --> 00:04:01,072 what did she do with her head? 38 00:04:01,072 --> 00:04:02,712 Isn't that a disgrace? 39 00:04:02,711 --> 00:04:04,271 I hope my daughter wouldn't turn out like that." 40 00:04:04,272 --> 00:04:05,712 - Isn't that what you're saying? - Yes, you are. 41 00:04:05,712 --> 00:04:07,632 - Already, you are. - How are you then? 42 00:04:07,632 --> 00:04:09,272 - I'm fine, thank you. How are you? - Well done so far. 43 00:04:09,272 --> 00:04:11,872 Now from Glenageary, you were a difficult child, 44 00:04:11,872 --> 00:04:14,512 Sin�ad O'Connor, you were difficult growing up. 45 00:04:14,512 --> 00:04:16,552 You went through a lot of schools, did you not? 46 00:04:16,553 --> 00:04:19,993 I think quite a few, at the expense of my father. 47 00:04:19,993 --> 00:04:22,353 How many schools did you go through and why? 48 00:04:22,353 --> 00:04:27,353 Um... I think, I don't know how many, Dad? About five. 49 00:04:27,354 --> 00:04:28,994 Five or six. 50 00:04:28,994 --> 00:04:30,994 How many schools did she go through? 51 00:04:30,994 --> 00:04:32,354 - I'd say no more than five or six. - - Five or six. 52 00:04:32,393 --> 00:04:34,193 That's a bit exaggerated actually. 53 00:04:34,234 --> 00:04:36,194 That's in one year, of course. 54 00:04:36,194 --> 00:04:39,914 And for me 55 00:04:39,955 --> 00:04:45,395 Some scarlet ribbons 56 00:04:45,395 --> 00:04:49,235 Scarlet ribbons 57 00:04:49,235 --> 00:04:53,075 For my hair... 58 00:04:53,076 --> 00:04:55,396 My very first musical memory 59 00:04:55,395 --> 00:04:59,435 is my father singing to me, "Scarlet Ribbons". 60 00:04:59,435 --> 00:05:01,595 I just remember being blown away. 61 00:05:01,596 --> 00:05:03,516 Like I remember like yesterday I was lying on my pillow 62 00:05:03,517 --> 00:05:04,797 and my dad would sing the song to me 63 00:05:04,836 --> 00:05:06,516 and I was like, "Oh, my God." 64 00:05:06,517 --> 00:05:08,117 The angels came in the window. 65 00:05:08,117 --> 00:05:13,277 ...all the streets were dark. 66 00:05:13,278 --> 00:05:15,918 When I'm 11, my brother comes home with " Slow Train Coming," 67 00:05:15,916 --> 00:05:17,676 which completely changes my life 68 00:05:17,717 --> 00:05:19,197 and makes me want to be a musician, 69 00:05:19,237 --> 00:05:21,437 and makes me want to be an artist, 70 00:05:21,437 --> 00:05:23,117 and makes me know what kind of artist I want to be 71 00:05:23,158 --> 00:05:25,518 because of the song "Gotta Serve Somebody." 72 00:05:25,558 --> 00:05:28,278 And I was obsessed with Bob Dylan from then on. 73 00:05:37,799 --> 00:05:40,799 My mother had this fantastic record collection 74 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,039 which she would spread out on the dining room table 75 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,600 every morning like a deck of cards. 76 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,560 Her musical tastes ranged from John Lennon 77 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,320 right through awful kind of HMS Pinafore, Light Opera, 78 00:05:54,361 --> 00:05:56,721 right through to, like, Porgy and Bess. 79 00:05:56,721 --> 00:05:58,681 And also in those days, musicals were huge. 80 00:05:58,721 --> 00:06:00,441 That was all that was ever on telly, 81 00:06:00,481 --> 00:06:02,161 was these just high class musicals, you know. 82 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:03,720 My mother always had the soundtracks to them. 83 00:06:07,801 --> 00:06:10,201 My father was into cello, 84 00:06:10,202 --> 00:06:12,202 which I used to find just too sad, given our circumstances. 85 00:06:16,403 --> 00:06:18,843 My parents separated when I was quite young, 86 00:06:20,403 --> 00:06:22,123 and my mother was a very violent woman, 87 00:06:22,162 --> 00:06:24,282 not a healthy woman mentally at all. 88 00:06:24,322 --> 00:06:26,602 And she was physically 89 00:06:26,603 --> 00:06:28,683 and verbally and psychologically, 90 00:06:28,683 --> 00:06:30,283 spiritually and emotionally abusive. 91 00:06:35,643 --> 00:06:37,323 My mother was a beast, 92 00:06:37,364 --> 00:06:40,804 and I was able to soothe her with my voice, 93 00:06:40,804 --> 00:06:43,244 I was able to use my voice to make the devil fall asleep. 94 00:06:45,364 --> 00:06:47,084 My father is the type of man that didn't want 95 00:06:47,084 --> 00:06:48,644 anyone talking about what happened, 96 00:06:48,644 --> 00:06:50,244 and that's what was wrong with me. 97 00:06:50,285 --> 00:06:51,885 It wasn't talked about, even in the family. 98 00:06:55,085 --> 00:06:58,125 The cause of my own abuse was the church's effect 99 00:06:58,165 --> 00:07:02,685 on this country, which had produced my mother. 100 00:07:05,126 --> 00:07:08,726 I spent my entire childhood being beaten up 101 00:07:08,725 --> 00:07:10,725 because of the social conditions 102 00:07:10,766 --> 00:07:12,406 under which my mother grew up 103 00:07:12,406 --> 00:07:14,286 and under which her mother grew up 104 00:07:14,326 --> 00:07:16,166 and under which her mother and her mother grew up. 105 00:07:20,167 --> 00:07:23,087 I would compare Ireland to an abused child. 106 00:07:29,448 --> 00:07:33,568 I'd a terrible 107 00:07:33,568 --> 00:07:39,168 Broken heart 108 00:07:40,889 --> 00:07:45,729 I'd a terrible 109 00:07:45,769 --> 00:07:48,689 Broken heart... 110 00:07:48,689 --> 00:07:50,289 I began studying scriptures 111 00:07:50,289 --> 00:07:52,089 when I was very small, 112 00:07:52,089 --> 00:07:53,769 because I wanted to see what was in this book 113 00:07:53,809 --> 00:07:55,649 that they were using to oppress my people. 114 00:07:58,890 --> 00:08:00,450 Why were my grandparents so miserable 115 00:08:00,490 --> 00:08:02,450 that they couldn't have a kiss 116 00:08:02,450 --> 00:08:04,330 without feeling like they were going to burn in hell? 117 00:08:13,971 --> 00:08:16,051 The church influenced everything. 118 00:08:16,052 --> 00:08:19,572 If it was a sin, then it was against the law of the state. 119 00:08:19,572 --> 00:08:22,172 So divorce, contraception, 120 00:08:22,171 --> 00:08:24,731 and anything that didn't agree entirely 121 00:08:24,732 --> 00:08:27,252 with a very narrow view of the Catholic church, 122 00:08:27,253 --> 00:08:28,773 it was simply not allowed. 123 00:08:30,933 --> 00:08:34,213 It affected every level of society. 124 00:08:34,212 --> 00:08:37,012 It was a mortal sin, for example, 125 00:08:37,013 --> 00:08:39,173 to go to a dance in some diocese, 126 00:08:39,172 --> 00:08:41,132 that didn't end at midnight. 127 00:08:41,173 --> 00:08:44,813 It was a mortal sin to eat meat on a Friday. 128 00:08:44,853 --> 00:08:47,613 You could go to hell for eating a sausage on a Friday. 129 00:08:49,255 --> 00:08:51,415 Everything was gathered around 130 00:08:51,454 --> 00:08:54,334 the power of the church over its people. 131 00:08:56,974 --> 00:08:59,294 I had loved the Catholic church, 132 00:08:59,295 --> 00:09:01,215 and I had grown up so religious, 133 00:09:01,215 --> 00:09:04,055 like stupidly religious. 134 00:09:04,055 --> 00:09:07,655 I made my holy communion and I took it seriously. 135 00:09:07,695 --> 00:09:10,415 That was a contract with the holy spirit I made, 136 00:09:10,416 --> 00:09:13,016 and I believed it all, and I was trying to live it. 137 00:09:27,257 --> 00:09:30,257 I went into care when I was 14, 138 00:09:30,257 --> 00:09:32,617 into care home for want of a better description. 139 00:09:34,178 --> 00:09:35,978 I was a bit messed up. 140 00:09:35,978 --> 00:09:37,818 And it wasn't acknowledged 141 00:09:37,818 --> 00:09:39,258 what had happened to me in my mother's house. 142 00:09:41,697 --> 00:09:45,097 I was unmanageable, really, so they didn't want me at home. 143 00:09:48,418 --> 00:09:51,178 The place was called "An Grianan", which means "The Sunrise." 144 00:09:53,379 --> 00:09:56,299 An Grianan was a residential training centre 145 00:09:56,300 --> 00:09:58,700 run by a religious order, by sisters. 146 00:10:01,620 --> 00:10:04,220 The girls came from mixed backgrounds. 147 00:10:04,219 --> 00:10:06,059 Some had come from other children's homes, 148 00:10:06,060 --> 00:10:07,940 have been in care all their lives. 149 00:10:07,980 --> 00:10:11,260 Others had come from insecure family settings 150 00:10:11,300 --> 00:10:13,460 and they needed somewhere where there was structure 151 00:10:13,501 --> 00:10:15,661 and safety for a few years. 152 00:10:18,381 --> 00:10:20,021 They got a guitar teacher in 153 00:10:20,022 --> 00:10:21,982 who was the loveliest woman alive, 154 00:10:22,021 --> 00:10:23,301 who I still know and I still talk to now and then. 155 00:10:23,302 --> 00:10:25,302 She's bloody lovely. 156 00:10:25,301 --> 00:10:26,701 If not for her, I wouldn't have made it through that place. 157 00:10:28,741 --> 00:10:30,221 The first night, I was there 158 00:10:30,222 --> 00:10:32,102 doing music with the girls, 159 00:10:32,102 --> 00:10:34,702 I asked her, would she like to sing a song for us. 160 00:10:34,702 --> 00:10:37,102 And I won't forget it as long as I live, 161 00:10:37,143 --> 00:10:40,623 because we were just stunned. 162 00:10:42,744 --> 00:10:45,504 We needed to encourage her in this wonderful talent. 163 00:10:49,343 --> 00:10:51,703 Ooh, I'm freezing! 164 00:10:59,225 --> 00:11:01,065 When we decided to get married, 165 00:11:01,064 --> 00:11:04,624 I asked Sin�ad then to do the solo. 166 00:11:04,625 --> 00:11:07,305 And she sang "Evergreen," which was my favourite song. 167 00:11:10,625 --> 00:11:14,665 One love 168 00:11:14,665 --> 00:11:19,465 Ageless and ever 169 00:11:19,466 --> 00:11:23,626 Evergreen 170 00:11:23,626 --> 00:11:25,626 The emotion of the song 171 00:11:25,627 --> 00:11:28,107 almost brought people to tears. 172 00:11:28,147 --> 00:11:31,307 - It was stunning. - It was absolutely stunning. 173 00:11:37,907 --> 00:11:42,467 In the congregation was her brother, Paul Byrne, 174 00:11:42,468 --> 00:11:44,988 and then he was forming this band called In Tua Nua. 175 00:11:48,028 --> 00:11:50,228 We were searching for a singer. 176 00:11:50,229 --> 00:11:54,509 So when I heard this voice, it stopped me in my tracks. 177 00:11:54,548 --> 00:11:57,308 After chatting with Sin�ad on the steps of the church, 178 00:11:57,308 --> 00:12:00,548 I'd arranged to go up and see her at An Grianan. 179 00:12:00,549 --> 00:12:04,269 We gave her a tape and she phoned the next day. 180 00:12:04,269 --> 00:12:06,269 She had the lyrics and the melody done. 181 00:12:10,510 --> 00:12:14,270 So we went back up the next night and she sang it to us, 182 00:12:14,269 --> 00:12:15,589 and it was spectacular. 183 00:12:18,630 --> 00:12:21,390 We had to book a couple of hours on a Wednesday afternoon 184 00:12:21,390 --> 00:12:24,230 because Sin�ad got a half day from school on a Wednesday. 185 00:12:24,271 --> 00:12:27,231 Picked her up, did two hours of vocals with her, 186 00:12:27,231 --> 00:12:31,111 and then had her back before the nuns noticed she was missing. 187 00:12:31,111 --> 00:12:33,831 So the first song that I wrote, 188 00:12:33,832 --> 00:12:35,952 which became their first single, was called "Take My Hand." 189 00:12:35,952 --> 00:12:37,512 It was a result of the punishment 190 00:12:37,511 --> 00:12:39,991 the nun meted out to me one day, 191 00:12:40,032 --> 00:12:42,352 the nun, she could be terribly kind, 192 00:12:42,352 --> 00:12:45,512 but she could also be terribly cruel as well. 193 00:12:45,513 --> 00:12:48,913 Where I was, was attached to a Magdalene Laundry. 194 00:12:48,953 --> 00:12:51,753 She sent me to sleep in the hospice part of the laundry 195 00:12:51,753 --> 00:12:53,473 as punishment a couple of times, 196 00:12:53,474 --> 00:12:55,434 to remind me that if I didn't behave myself, 197 00:12:55,433 --> 00:12:58,473 I was going to end up like these women. 198 00:12:58,513 --> 00:13:00,993 When I went up, there was no staff there with the ladies. 199 00:13:01,033 --> 00:13:03,033 There was never any nuns or nurses. 200 00:13:03,034 --> 00:13:05,874 And the poor ancient ladies who were the Magdalene girls 201 00:13:05,914 --> 00:13:08,154 were lying in their beds calling out for nurses all night 202 00:13:08,154 --> 00:13:10,954 that never came, it was awful. 203 00:13:10,994 --> 00:13:13,314 I didn't know what to do, and obviously, I was terrified. 204 00:13:22,235 --> 00:13:26,955 Take my hand 205 00:13:35,196 --> 00:13:37,116 These women, 206 00:13:37,117 --> 00:13:38,837 we're now talking about the early '80s, 207 00:13:38,838 --> 00:13:41,798 some of them have been there from the 1920s. 208 00:13:41,797 --> 00:13:45,397 These women, who through no fault of their own, 209 00:13:45,396 --> 00:13:47,956 had just been put in by the courts and by men. 210 00:13:50,277 --> 00:13:53,037 Very often the cases were they had been raped 211 00:13:53,038 --> 00:13:57,118 by maybe the local priest, the doctor, the father, 212 00:13:57,118 --> 00:14:00,358 or some pillar of society. 213 00:14:02,479 --> 00:14:04,319 They had to pay the price 214 00:14:04,358 --> 00:14:05,638 and were locked away for their whole lives. 215 00:14:13,839 --> 00:14:16,159 The whole of Ireland talks about these ladies, 216 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,640 but I met them, I met them at their most vulnerable. 217 00:14:25,401 --> 00:14:28,081 These people convinced my father that they could help me 218 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,440 with whatever behavioural issues I had 219 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,320 as a result of what had happened to me growing up. 220 00:14:33,321 --> 00:14:35,321 But they didn't, they just shut the door in his face 221 00:14:35,321 --> 00:14:37,681 when he dropped me there, they took his money. 222 00:14:39,242 --> 00:14:41,602 The problems were compounded. 223 00:14:41,601 --> 00:14:42,721 We all were walking around thinking we were terrible people 224 00:14:42,722 --> 00:14:45,402 that didn't deserve to live. 225 00:14:45,443 --> 00:14:47,643 My father, I'm sure the world would acknowledge, 226 00:14:47,642 --> 00:14:48,762 deserves a refund. 227 00:14:50,962 --> 00:14:55,402 Young woman With a drink in her hand 228 00:14:55,443 --> 00:15:00,283 She liked to listen To rock and roll 229 00:15:00,283 --> 00:15:05,763 She moves with the music 230 00:15:05,804 --> 00:15:09,844 'Cause it never gets old 231 00:15:11,403 --> 00:15:14,403 Sin�ad and I met when we were 232 00:15:14,404 --> 00:15:16,604 both around 18 years old. 233 00:15:19,005 --> 00:15:20,765 We were very close for a number of years 234 00:15:20,765 --> 00:15:23,325 until life kind of took us in different directions. 235 00:15:25,326 --> 00:15:29,406 She really wanted to be doing her music. 236 00:15:29,406 --> 00:15:31,926 I think she really knew what she wanted to do, 237 00:15:31,926 --> 00:15:33,246 but I don't quite know if she knew 238 00:15:33,245 --> 00:15:35,365 what path it would take her on. 239 00:15:37,446 --> 00:15:39,646 I put an ad in Hot Press magazine 240 00:15:39,686 --> 00:15:42,446 that I was a singer and I wanted to find a band to join. 241 00:15:42,447 --> 00:15:44,767 And I remember going into these suburban houses, 242 00:15:44,806 --> 00:15:47,286 doing auditions for these various different bands. 243 00:15:47,287 --> 00:15:50,327 Eventually I ended up meeting this dude called Colm Farrelly 244 00:15:50,327 --> 00:15:52,127 who was putting together this band. 245 00:15:52,128 --> 00:15:56,488 Ton Ton Macoute, so I became the singer in that band. 246 00:15:56,527 --> 00:15:59,247 I had a job at the Bad Ass Cafe on Crown Alley, 247 00:15:59,288 --> 00:16:01,008 and we used to rehearse right across the road from it. 248 00:16:01,007 --> 00:16:03,007 We did nothing but rehearse live, 249 00:16:03,008 --> 00:16:05,048 which is why I love live performing. 250 00:16:05,048 --> 00:16:06,648 And every rehearsal was like a gig. 251 00:16:08,769 --> 00:16:11,369 Nigel Grainge and Chris Hill came over to Dublin 252 00:16:11,369 --> 00:16:13,049 to see us, Ton Ton Macoute. 253 00:16:19,289 --> 00:16:21,569 About six months later, my mother unfortunately died, 254 00:16:21,569 --> 00:16:25,129 very selfishly. 255 00:16:25,129 --> 00:16:28,649 Months after that, I get a phone call from Chris and Nigel. 256 00:16:28,691 --> 00:16:30,091 He said, "Well, why don't you come to London 257 00:16:30,090 --> 00:16:32,130 and do some demos?" 258 00:16:54,252 --> 00:16:57,692 For five long years 259 00:16:57,692 --> 00:17:00,132 I thought you were my man 260 00:17:01,812 --> 00:17:05,052 But I found out 261 00:17:05,052 --> 00:17:09,572 I'm just a link In your chain 262 00:17:09,573 --> 00:17:13,013 You got me Where you want me 263 00:17:13,014 --> 00:17:15,254 I ain't nothin' But your fool 264 00:17:17,094 --> 00:17:20,014 You treated me mean 265 00:17:20,054 --> 00:17:23,014 Oh, you treated me cruel 266 00:17:30,335 --> 00:17:32,895 I worked with Sin�ad from her arrival in London 267 00:17:32,895 --> 00:17:35,055 through to the development of and the recording 268 00:17:35,055 --> 00:17:37,135 of her first album, "Lion and the Cobra." 269 00:17:41,136 --> 00:17:43,496 Our job as a sort of group of musicians from the outset 270 00:17:43,496 --> 00:17:45,776 was to help her to find her feet. 271 00:17:45,816 --> 00:17:47,816 She'd already found her voice, 272 00:17:47,816 --> 00:17:50,216 but she wanted to find the sort of musical clothing 273 00:17:50,256 --> 00:17:54,176 that she wanted to wrap around that amazing voice. 274 00:17:54,216 --> 00:17:55,696 What's it called? 275 00:17:55,697 --> 00:17:57,457 Um, we haven't got a name for it yet. 276 00:17:57,497 --> 00:17:59,657 So we went into a rehearsal studio in Putney 277 00:17:59,657 --> 00:18:01,657 and started to routine the songs 278 00:18:01,657 --> 00:18:04,457 and get used to the dynamics and arrangements. 279 00:18:04,458 --> 00:18:06,978 It makes a big difference if you can go in 280 00:18:07,017 --> 00:18:08,537 and rehearse for a long time. 281 00:18:12,578 --> 00:18:16,698 Nigel Grange was the head of Ensign at the time. 282 00:18:16,698 --> 00:18:19,218 He was quite used to putting people into a position 283 00:18:19,219 --> 00:18:22,819 of being able to work for long periods. 284 00:18:22,819 --> 00:18:24,219 So he's a kind of nurturer. 285 00:18:25,900 --> 00:18:29,820 I'm just as guilty as you 286 00:18:29,819 --> 00:18:33,299 I'm just as ashamed as you 287 00:18:36,340 --> 00:18:39,180 The first time I heard Sin�ad's voice, 288 00:18:39,180 --> 00:18:40,820 it's just unbelievable. 289 00:18:40,820 --> 00:18:42,820 It was jumping octaves 290 00:18:42,821 --> 00:18:47,221 and going from whisper to scream in half a second. 291 00:18:47,221 --> 00:18:49,261 I mean, it was just amazing, 292 00:18:49,262 --> 00:18:52,382 a young kid from Dublin, you know. 293 00:18:52,421 --> 00:18:57,701 And 294 00:18:57,741 --> 00:19:00,301 I'm just as guilty as you 295 00:19:07,382 --> 00:19:08,982 You often hear artists saying 296 00:19:08,983 --> 00:19:11,183 that they're channelling something. 297 00:19:11,223 --> 00:19:12,983 I think actually you're channelling yourself. 298 00:19:12,982 --> 00:19:15,582 Your subconscious is talking to you. 299 00:19:15,583 --> 00:19:17,263 I just had these songs inside me 300 00:19:17,263 --> 00:19:19,623 that had to come out. 301 00:19:19,623 --> 00:19:23,063 They were very, very personal 302 00:19:23,064 --> 00:19:25,664 and they were sort of cathartic, really. 303 00:19:25,704 --> 00:19:28,824 There were kind of songs to help her, to heal her. 304 00:19:33,305 --> 00:19:35,865 In some respects, I think the band that we were, 305 00:19:35,904 --> 00:19:37,984 the band of musicians who were around her, 306 00:19:37,984 --> 00:19:39,904 were something of a family for her. 307 00:19:41,464 --> 00:19:42,664 We were safe. 308 00:19:48,546 --> 00:19:52,106 Fachtna O'Ceallaigh had been Boomtown Rats' manager 309 00:19:52,107 --> 00:19:54,507 and had run U2's label. 310 00:19:54,506 --> 00:19:57,586 He came over to London and became Sin�ad's manager. 311 00:20:02,307 --> 00:20:04,707 I had a great time hanging out with Fachtna, 312 00:20:04,706 --> 00:20:06,666 and Fachtna used to bring me to Portobello Road on Saturdays, 313 00:20:06,707 --> 00:20:10,347 where he had his friend Lepkey, and Leroy. 314 00:20:10,347 --> 00:20:12,107 He used to have the Dread Broadcasting Company 315 00:20:12,108 --> 00:20:13,548 and they had the open mics. 316 00:20:18,828 --> 00:20:20,388 Bearing in mind I'm Irish 317 00:20:20,428 --> 00:20:21,948 and I've come from the theocracy, 318 00:20:21,948 --> 00:20:23,468 and these guys were coming along 319 00:20:23,508 --> 00:20:25,388 roaring about the Pope is the devil, 320 00:20:25,389 --> 00:20:26,989 and fucking burn the Vatican and all this stuff, 321 00:20:26,988 --> 00:20:28,628 so that was like, "Oh, my God, I'm home." 322 00:20:28,629 --> 00:20:30,269 I couldn't believe it. 323 00:20:30,269 --> 00:20:32,549 I fell in love with Rasta at that point. 324 00:20:39,390 --> 00:20:43,870 Love to everyone. You're back in tune to The Rankin' Miss P, 325 00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:46,709 on DBC, the Dread Broadcasting Corporation, 326 00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:50,550 103.8 every Friday. 327 00:20:52,311 --> 00:20:54,511 We're electric, y'all. 328 00:21:02,711 --> 00:21:04,751 She was really shy 329 00:21:04,751 --> 00:21:08,151 and she was living down in east London with her auntie. 330 00:21:08,152 --> 00:21:11,872 She didn't know anyone, and so we just hung out. 331 00:21:11,872 --> 00:21:14,312 We did a lot of driving around London, you know, 332 00:21:14,312 --> 00:21:17,312 with the stereo on, just having a great time actually, 333 00:21:17,352 --> 00:21:18,752 just being kids, to be honest. 334 00:21:24,352 --> 00:21:29,872 Ensign wanted Sin�ad to be a musical commodity. 335 00:21:29,913 --> 00:21:32,193 They wanted me to grow the hair long 336 00:21:32,194 --> 00:21:34,514 and wear short skirts and high heels, 337 00:21:34,513 --> 00:21:36,473 makeup and the whole works, 338 00:21:36,474 --> 00:21:38,234 write songs that wouldn't challenge anything. 339 00:21:38,235 --> 00:21:40,235 But then I come from a country where 340 00:21:40,274 --> 00:21:43,314 there used to be riots in the streets over plays. 341 00:21:44,796 --> 00:21:46,676 That's what art is for. 342 00:21:49,315 --> 00:21:52,995 That led to her deciding to shave off all her hair. 343 00:22:13,237 --> 00:22:15,237 At the time, I was her closest female friend. 344 00:22:15,237 --> 00:22:18,117 I think... I went to see some friends, 345 00:22:18,118 --> 00:22:20,158 and when I got back to her flat, 346 00:22:20,157 --> 00:22:22,077 she wouldn't open the door. 347 00:22:22,078 --> 00:22:24,118 She just said, "I can't, I can't. 348 00:22:24,158 --> 00:22:26,038 You got to look through the letter box, 349 00:22:26,038 --> 00:22:27,918 I've done something and you're going to kill me." 350 00:22:27,958 --> 00:22:29,758 I looked through the letterbox and there she was 351 00:22:29,759 --> 00:22:32,519 with a completely shaved head. 352 00:22:38,919 --> 00:22:41,039 The label were trying to brand Sin�ad 353 00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:44,079 with those really obvious generic female labels. 354 00:22:44,079 --> 00:22:46,479 Obviously she was having absolutely none of it. 355 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,560 You just looked at somebody and went, 356 00:22:51,561 --> 00:22:54,001 "We know now what we're dealing with." 357 00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:59,600 It's a powerful statement for a woman because she says, 358 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:00,720 "Don't fuck with me." 359 00:23:05,761 --> 00:23:08,081 Me and John were friends for a year 360 00:23:08,122 --> 00:23:10,522 before, you know, we ever went out with each other. 361 00:23:10,561 --> 00:23:12,561 We were both going out with different people and everything. 362 00:23:12,562 --> 00:23:14,122 And then we just kind of drifted into it, 363 00:23:14,162 --> 00:23:15,722 and then within a month I was pregnant. 364 00:23:19,322 --> 00:23:21,442 The record companies in those days had their own doctors 365 00:23:21,483 --> 00:23:23,563 that they sent you to. 366 00:23:23,562 --> 00:23:26,442 The doctor announces that the record company have spent 367 00:23:26,443 --> 00:23:28,163 a hundred thousand pounds making your record, 368 00:23:28,163 --> 00:23:30,363 you owe it to them not to have this baby. 369 00:23:32,044 --> 00:23:34,564 Ensign tried to dissuade her 370 00:23:34,563 --> 00:23:38,883 from carrying on the pregnancy and giving birth to Jake, 371 00:23:38,923 --> 00:23:43,563 and thankfully, she obviously stood her ground, 372 00:23:43,564 --> 00:23:47,204 but they did put pressure on her to terminate the pregnancy. 373 00:23:49,205 --> 00:23:51,085 That was the final straw for me. 374 00:23:51,084 --> 00:23:53,284 I was sick of the fuckin' record anyway. 375 00:23:53,285 --> 00:23:54,445 I hated the fuckin' record. 376 00:23:57,525 --> 00:23:59,725 There was a big fallout. 377 00:23:59,765 --> 00:24:03,085 Fachtna O'Ceallaigh was working very hard 378 00:24:03,085 --> 00:24:06,125 to persuade the label to just give her scope, 379 00:24:06,126 --> 00:24:08,086 to just change tack. 380 00:24:08,086 --> 00:24:11,206 Basically they said, "Have a go." 381 00:24:11,206 --> 00:24:13,086 In my part, it was a response to them 382 00:24:13,126 --> 00:24:15,446 telling me I owe it to them to not have my baby. 383 00:24:15,447 --> 00:24:16,767 And I was like, "well, it ain't worth it 384 00:24:16,767 --> 00:24:19,247 for a shit fuckin' record." 385 00:24:19,287 --> 00:24:22,287 I just knew that I didn't want any man telling me 386 00:24:22,287 --> 00:24:25,647 who I could be or what I could be or what to sound like. 387 00:24:25,647 --> 00:24:27,487 I came from a patriarchal country 388 00:24:27,487 --> 00:24:29,687 where I'm being told everything I can and can't do 389 00:24:29,687 --> 00:24:31,767 because I'm a girl. 390 00:24:31,768 --> 00:24:34,088 I figured, well, if I didn't take it from the system 391 00:24:34,128 --> 00:24:35,848 and I didn't take it from my daddy, 392 00:24:35,848 --> 00:24:37,728 I ain't taking it from anybody else. 393 00:24:37,768 --> 00:24:39,288 Can I do two? 394 00:24:50,169 --> 00:24:52,089 The whole of "The Lion and the Cobra" 395 00:24:52,090 --> 00:24:55,330 was completely scrapped and we started again. 396 00:24:55,330 --> 00:24:58,450 That was a really important turning point in that record. 397 00:24:58,490 --> 00:25:03,570 The second version was fresher, younger, and spontaneous. 398 00:25:03,571 --> 00:25:05,291 Put your hands on me 399 00:25:05,290 --> 00:25:11,050 Put 'em on, put 'em on Put 'em on me 400 00:25:15,011 --> 00:25:19,931 Hands, gimme love 401 00:25:24,372 --> 00:25:29,212 Hands, gimme those 402 00:25:32,252 --> 00:25:34,812 I want your 403 00:25:34,853 --> 00:25:36,293 Gimme, yes 404 00:25:39,453 --> 00:25:41,733 Gimme this 405 00:25:44,974 --> 00:25:46,974 When we got the first album cover, 406 00:25:46,974 --> 00:25:49,174 I was frozen like a rabbit in the headlights 407 00:25:49,173 --> 00:25:50,413 getting my picture taken. 408 00:25:52,774 --> 00:25:55,774 Put on the album and got me to scream along with the album. 409 00:25:55,774 --> 00:25:57,134 So that's why there's the picture of me 410 00:25:57,134 --> 00:25:58,774 looks like I'm screaming, 411 00:25:58,775 --> 00:26:00,295 which they wouldn't use in America 412 00:26:00,334 --> 00:26:01,614 because it was too aggressive-looking 413 00:26:01,615 --> 00:26:04,015 as far as they were concerned. 414 00:26:04,055 --> 00:26:05,415 I didn't realize that they'd have to do 415 00:26:05,456 --> 00:26:07,336 a different one for America. 416 00:26:07,335 --> 00:26:08,935 It was only when it came out and I thought, 417 00:26:08,936 --> 00:26:10,696 "Yeah, of course they couldn't have 418 00:26:10,695 --> 00:26:12,455 a picture of her screaming." 419 00:26:12,495 --> 00:26:15,535 You know, that would scare too many people. 420 00:26:15,536 --> 00:26:17,816 I had to photograph her for the cover 421 00:26:17,816 --> 00:26:20,336 from the shoulders up 422 00:26:20,336 --> 00:26:22,456 because the record company didn't want to see her pregnant. 423 00:26:22,457 --> 00:26:24,257 Once we had got the pictures 424 00:26:24,256 --> 00:26:27,056 that we knew the record company needed, 425 00:26:27,057 --> 00:26:29,737 we just did what we wanted. 426 00:26:29,737 --> 00:26:32,177 It was, you know, a joy to photograph 427 00:26:32,218 --> 00:26:34,778 this little girl with her bald head and her big belly, 428 00:26:34,777 --> 00:26:37,737 amazing looking. 429 00:26:37,778 --> 00:26:41,418 I think her image screamed more than feminism, 430 00:26:41,458 --> 00:26:43,138 beyond feminism at the time. 431 00:26:43,178 --> 00:26:46,938 I think it was just like non-binary, 432 00:26:46,938 --> 00:26:52,338 incredible intersectional feminist attitude. 433 00:26:52,379 --> 00:26:57,099 Her fashion sense was like 35 years ahead of the time. 434 00:26:59,459 --> 00:27:02,099 People found it problematic just because 435 00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:06,260 they read the language of skinhead into the shaved head. 436 00:27:06,260 --> 00:27:09,180 It suggested some kind of aggression, 437 00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:11,420 but actually the beauty of her features, 438 00:27:11,461 --> 00:27:13,061 the quality of her eyes, 439 00:27:13,061 --> 00:27:16,941 it created a fantastic contradiction. 440 00:27:16,940 --> 00:27:19,700 As a filmmaker, gave me a very graphic, powerful image 441 00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:22,300 from the get-go. 442 00:27:22,341 --> 00:27:23,901 Anytime I worked with John Maybury, 443 00:27:23,901 --> 00:27:25,421 it was amazing 'cos he came with 444 00:27:25,421 --> 00:27:28,501 a whole gang of glorious queens. 445 00:27:28,542 --> 00:27:33,142 The set makers, stylists, the makeup people, you know, 446 00:27:33,182 --> 00:27:37,222 and they like genuinely adored me. 447 00:27:45,583 --> 00:27:48,343 I felt so safe and looked after. 448 00:27:48,343 --> 00:27:50,103 I felt like I had like a hundred daddies. 449 00:27:55,584 --> 00:27:59,664 You do 450 00:27:59,664 --> 00:28:03,584 Something to me 451 00:28:07,064 --> 00:28:10,224 She recognized in us kind of a sense of 452 00:28:10,225 --> 00:28:13,865 some kind of kindred spirit, but there was no judgement. 453 00:28:13,865 --> 00:28:17,465 There was no critiquing in any kind of personal terms. 454 00:28:17,505 --> 00:28:20,505 And she was free to be who she wanted to be within that 455 00:28:20,546 --> 00:28:24,706 because everyone else was free to be who they wanted to be. 456 00:28:24,706 --> 00:28:27,786 I had never, until I went to London, seen gay people. 457 00:28:27,826 --> 00:28:30,106 They were so inspiring and still are to me, 458 00:28:30,106 --> 00:28:32,506 especially the ones that were dressing like women. 459 00:28:34,227 --> 00:28:36,147 You couldn't do that in Ireland. 460 00:28:36,187 --> 00:28:37,747 You'd have the shit kicked out of you, you know? 461 00:28:41,188 --> 00:28:44,228 Let me live 'neath your spell 462 00:28:44,229 --> 00:28:48,309 Do do that voodoo 463 00:28:48,348 --> 00:28:51,948 That you do so well 464 00:28:53,588 --> 00:28:58,468 For you do 465 00:28:58,509 --> 00:29:02,669 Something to me 466 00:29:02,709 --> 00:29:07,069 That nobody else 467 00:29:07,068 --> 00:29:12,628 Can do 468 00:29:12,629 --> 00:29:17,669 That nobody else 469 00:29:19,630 --> 00:29:25,110 Can do 470 00:29:33,511 --> 00:29:37,151 Why I like performing and why I like singing loud 471 00:29:37,151 --> 00:29:39,271 and stuff like that is because 472 00:29:39,272 --> 00:29:42,912 I am quietly spoken and quite withdrawn... 473 00:29:42,912 --> 00:29:46,392 and into myself, and in my, sort of, normal life, 474 00:29:46,393 --> 00:29:49,713 so it's quite a release to climb on the stage and scream for an hour. 475 00:29:49,753 --> 00:29:53,393 At the end of my day 476 00:29:53,392 --> 00:29:55,272 Nothing would 477 00:29:55,273 --> 00:29:59,313 Nothing would Please me better 478 00:29:59,353 --> 00:30:04,833 Than I find that you're there When I wake 479 00:30:07,154 --> 00:30:11,154 Just like you Said it would be 480 00:30:11,155 --> 00:30:13,755 Just like you Said it would be 481 00:30:15,714 --> 00:30:17,994 Just like you Said it would be 482 00:30:19,995 --> 00:30:22,595 Just like you Said it would be 483 00:30:24,236 --> 00:30:28,436 Will you be my lover? 484 00:30:28,436 --> 00:30:32,196 Will you be my mama? 485 00:30:32,196 --> 00:30:35,996 I said will you my my mama? 486 00:30:38,996 --> 00:30:40,956 There are a lot of songs that I've written 487 00:30:40,957 --> 00:30:44,317 about my mother's death or in response to her death. 488 00:30:44,357 --> 00:30:46,637 And " Troy," I think was the first one. 489 00:30:48,318 --> 00:30:50,318 It's also the first song I've wrote 490 00:30:50,317 --> 00:30:52,997 where I'm telling anybody about anything that's happened. 491 00:30:52,998 --> 00:30:54,998 I'll remember it 492 00:30:57,598 --> 00:31:01,438 Dublin in a rainstorm 493 00:31:01,438 --> 00:31:05,878 And sitting In the long grass in summer 494 00:31:05,878 --> 00:31:09,118 Keeping warm... 495 00:31:09,119 --> 00:31:10,719 One of the very traumatic things 496 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,480 that happened to me growing up, 497 00:31:12,479 --> 00:31:14,439 was that my mother had me living in the garden. 498 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,280 So once when I was eight-and-a-half, 499 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:21,000 I lived in the garden 24/7 for a week or two. 500 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,520 I'm talking in that song about that experience, 501 00:31:23,559 --> 00:31:25,599 the whole thing of sitting in the long grass in summer 502 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,440 trying to keep warm. 503 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,560 So I'm out in the garden in the fucking dark 504 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,360 and when it's coming to dusk and I still hate dusk 505 00:31:32,401 --> 00:31:34,281 to this day, I don't mind if it's day or night, 506 00:31:34,321 --> 00:31:36,841 but dusk, I don't like. 507 00:31:36,881 --> 00:31:38,841 And I'd be looking up at the only window 508 00:31:38,842 --> 00:31:41,002 at the side of the house where she'd have a light on 509 00:31:41,041 --> 00:31:43,521 and I'd be screaming, begging her to let me in. 510 00:31:43,521 --> 00:31:45,121 And she wouldn't let me in, the light would go off, 511 00:31:45,162 --> 00:31:46,802 the house go dark. 512 00:31:49,762 --> 00:31:52,202 Every other song I'm writing is about somebody else 513 00:31:52,202 --> 00:31:53,882 or from the point of view of somebody else. 514 00:31:53,923 --> 00:31:56,403 "Troy" is the first song I've written about me. 515 00:31:56,443 --> 00:32:00,163 It's not a song, it's a fucking testament. 516 00:32:03,002 --> 00:32:06,282 And you should've Left the light on 517 00:32:06,283 --> 00:32:10,643 You should've Left the light on 518 00:32:10,684 --> 00:32:15,524 Then I wouldn't have tried You'd never have known 519 00:32:18,805 --> 00:32:22,205 And I wouldn't have Pulled you tighter 520 00:32:22,205 --> 00:32:26,245 No, I wouldn't have Pulled you close 521 00:32:26,284 --> 00:32:27,684 I wouldn't have screamed 522 00:32:27,725 --> 00:32:31,085 No, I can't let you go 523 00:32:31,085 --> 00:32:34,165 If the door wasn't closed 524 00:32:34,206 --> 00:32:38,046 No, I wouldn't have Pulled you to me 525 00:32:38,046 --> 00:32:42,126 No, I wouldn't have kissed Your face 526 00:32:42,166 --> 00:32:44,886 You wouldn't have Begged me to hold you 527 00:32:44,887 --> 00:32:49,447 If we hadn't been there In the first place 528 00:32:49,446 --> 00:32:54,926 Oh, but I know you Wanted me to be there 529 00:32:54,967 --> 00:32:58,367 Oh, oh 530 00:32:58,368 --> 00:33:03,808 Every look That you threw told me so 531 00:33:07,249 --> 00:33:09,009 "Troy" is not safe. 532 00:33:09,048 --> 00:33:10,728 I don't need to dig that up again. 533 00:33:10,728 --> 00:33:12,168 It's like trauma therapy. 534 00:33:13,889 --> 00:33:16,289 There would've been no point writing 535 00:33:16,328 --> 00:33:18,608 and/or going around the world screaming "Troy" 536 00:33:18,609 --> 00:33:20,729 into microphones, if there wasn't going to come a day, 537 00:33:20,730 --> 00:33:23,090 one day that I didn't need to do that anymore. 538 00:33:26,210 --> 00:33:30,690 Make no difference What you say 539 00:33:30,731 --> 00:33:32,611 You're still a liar 540 00:33:34,810 --> 00:33:36,610 You're still a liar 541 00:33:38,770 --> 00:33:41,810 You're still a liar 542 00:33:55,332 --> 00:33:57,692 Sin�ad was pregnant all through the making 543 00:33:57,732 --> 00:33:59,332 of "The Lion and the Cobra" 544 00:33:59,372 --> 00:34:01,372 And I think in many ways, actually, 545 00:34:01,372 --> 00:34:04,772 it was quite grounding to have a baby very young. 546 00:34:04,773 --> 00:34:07,973 In some way, I think it probably kept us sane. 547 00:34:09,813 --> 00:34:14,173 There's nothing more deep and real than a baby. 548 00:34:14,214 --> 00:34:16,054 And there's nothing more fake and unimportant 549 00:34:16,053 --> 00:34:19,293 than fame, really. 550 00:34:19,293 --> 00:34:21,213 Dana Dane making her first appearance on Top of the Pops. 551 00:34:21,214 --> 00:34:23,174 Here's another lady making her first appearance. 552 00:34:23,174 --> 00:34:24,734 She's got an excellent new album out at the moment 553 00:34:24,734 --> 00:34:26,294 called "The Lion and the Cobra", 554 00:34:26,334 --> 00:34:28,614 and a single Mandinka at 22 in the charts. 555 00:34:28,615 --> 00:34:30,455 This is Sin�ad O'Connor. 556 00:34:32,735 --> 00:34:34,455 I remember watching 557 00:34:34,496 --> 00:34:36,176 Sin�ad on Top of the Pops. 558 00:34:36,175 --> 00:34:38,775 It's just seemed quite surreal to be honest, 559 00:34:38,775 --> 00:34:40,895 because she was just my friend, 560 00:34:40,895 --> 00:34:45,575 but she was this other person in other people's eyes. 561 00:34:47,016 --> 00:34:50,856 I'm dancing the seven veils 562 00:34:50,857 --> 00:34:54,857 Want you to pick up My scarf 563 00:34:54,857 --> 00:34:58,617 See how The black moon fades 564 00:34:58,617 --> 00:35:02,417 Soon I can give you My heart 565 00:35:15,738 --> 00:35:18,858 I don't know no shame 566 00:35:18,859 --> 00:35:20,219 I feel no pain 567 00:35:20,219 --> 00:35:25,019 I can't see the flame 568 00:35:27,059 --> 00:35:31,939 But I do know Mandinka 569 00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:40,060 I do know Mandinka 570 00:35:42,341 --> 00:35:47,541 I do know Mandinka 571 00:35:49,580 --> 00:35:51,420 I do 572 00:35:54,062 --> 00:35:56,782 When "Mandinka" was released, 573 00:35:56,781 --> 00:35:58,621 it just jumps out of the radio, it was one of those songs. 574 00:35:58,622 --> 00:36:03,862 Oh, oh, oh Oh, oh, oh 575 00:36:03,863 --> 00:36:08,743 I do, oh, oh, oh 576 00:36:10,263 --> 00:36:15,743 I said I do 577 00:36:17,103 --> 00:36:21,103 I swear I do... 578 00:36:21,104 --> 00:36:22,904 You know, it was almost like she had always been there 579 00:36:22,903 --> 00:36:25,423 once she came on the scene because you really 580 00:36:25,424 --> 00:36:27,984 couldn't imagine your life without her at that point. 581 00:36:27,984 --> 00:36:32,144 I do Mandinka... 582 00:36:32,144 --> 00:36:35,984 I heard "Mandinka" at a club in Boulder, Colorado. 583 00:36:36,024 --> 00:36:38,544 I just remember hearing the voice and it's nothing 584 00:36:38,545 --> 00:36:42,185 other than something that stops you in your tracks. 585 00:36:42,225 --> 00:36:44,545 Soon I can give You my heart... 586 00:36:44,546 --> 00:36:47,946 I hear that voice and I feel comforted. 587 00:36:56,705 --> 00:36:58,585 And that first album, like, 588 00:36:58,586 --> 00:37:01,466 the entire thing was just stunning. 589 00:37:01,507 --> 00:37:05,027 Telling me he'd be home 590 00:37:05,067 --> 00:37:08,707 Sailed the seas For a hundred years 591 00:37:08,707 --> 00:37:13,787 Leaving me all alone 592 00:37:13,787 --> 00:37:16,867 "The Lion and the Cobra" was an amazing album 593 00:37:16,868 --> 00:37:19,268 just because there was no filler on it. 594 00:37:19,268 --> 00:37:20,988 So as a critic, you know, that was one of the first things 595 00:37:20,988 --> 00:37:22,948 that drew me to it. 596 00:37:22,948 --> 00:37:26,068 She also has a very singular voice and perspective 597 00:37:26,068 --> 00:37:29,948 and very strong personality-wise. 598 00:37:29,989 --> 00:37:31,789 To me, it was like the whole package. 599 00:37:31,789 --> 00:37:34,189 I remember the day The young man came 600 00:37:34,229 --> 00:37:37,909 He said, "Your Jackie's gone We got lost in the rain" 601 00:37:37,949 --> 00:37:41,149 And I ran to the beach 602 00:37:41,150 --> 00:37:42,990 And laid me down... 603 00:37:42,989 --> 00:37:45,229 The thing about "The Lion and the Cobra" is, 604 00:37:45,230 --> 00:37:48,590 you don't get that as a debut album every day. 605 00:37:48,590 --> 00:37:51,550 Those things come like once in a lifetime. 606 00:37:51,551 --> 00:37:53,151 Like the back of his hand 607 00:37:53,151 --> 00:37:56,071 He'll be back sometime 608 00:37:56,110 --> 00:37:58,150 Laughing at you... 609 00:37:58,151 --> 00:37:59,951 And many times in your performances, 610 00:37:59,990 --> 00:38:02,750 there's an intensity, almost a rage burning inside of you. 611 00:38:02,751 --> 00:38:04,271 Where does that come from? 612 00:38:04,312 --> 00:38:06,752 You're a small, demure, quiet sort of person. 613 00:38:06,752 --> 00:38:08,352 I don't know. 614 00:38:08,352 --> 00:38:09,672 Perhaps there's something twisted about me 615 00:38:09,672 --> 00:38:12,272 that I haven't realized yet. 616 00:38:12,272 --> 00:38:14,912 You've also said that non-traditional Irish musicians 617 00:38:14,913 --> 00:38:18,553 seem to have to leave Ireland to make it. 618 00:38:18,592 --> 00:38:21,712 If you're a woman in particular, and unless 619 00:38:21,752 --> 00:38:24,912 you're very sort of timid and you want to make 620 00:38:24,913 --> 00:38:27,713 nice Irish music, which I respect and everything, 621 00:38:27,713 --> 00:38:29,513 life can be very difficult for you because people 622 00:38:29,513 --> 00:38:32,353 can't actually handle a woman doing anything different. 623 00:38:37,515 --> 00:38:40,315 When I leave Ireland, it's virtually unheard of 624 00:38:40,314 --> 00:38:42,714 for a woman to be making her own living 625 00:38:42,714 --> 00:38:44,794 and independent of men. 626 00:38:47,715 --> 00:38:51,115 The Irish fucking constitution still contains the wording 627 00:38:51,115 --> 00:38:53,155 that a woman's place is in the home. 628 00:38:53,155 --> 00:38:57,715 So I was very lucky, from 1985 I was making my own living. 629 00:38:57,756 --> 00:39:00,756 So many people in this country, women in particular, 630 00:39:00,757 --> 00:39:04,917 had to say no when they wanted to say yes to themselves, 631 00:39:04,956 --> 00:39:07,796 or be open about their anger. 632 00:39:07,836 --> 00:39:10,916 At that time in Ireland, women weren't allowed to be angry. 633 00:39:10,957 --> 00:39:12,757 And I think that might've been hard for some of them 634 00:39:12,796 --> 00:39:14,756 because, you know, they had spent their whole life 635 00:39:14,797 --> 00:39:16,477 saying no to themselves. 636 00:39:26,477 --> 00:39:28,557 Tonight, the Grammy awards are presenting 637 00:39:28,558 --> 00:39:31,078 best rock vocal performance female. 638 00:39:31,078 --> 00:39:33,158 Our first performer is 21 years old, 639 00:39:33,198 --> 00:39:35,398 comes from Ireland and with her very first album, 640 00:39:35,398 --> 00:39:37,758 "The Lion and the Cobra", she has served notice 641 00:39:37,759 --> 00:39:39,599 that this is no ordinary talent. 642 00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:42,119 Ladies and gentlemen, please meet Sin�ad O'Connor. 643 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,760 I'm dancing the seven veils 644 00:40:01,761 --> 00:40:05,521 Want you to pick up My scarf 645 00:40:05,521 --> 00:40:09,401 See how The black moon fades 646 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,080 Soon I can Give you my heart... 647 00:40:13,121 --> 00:40:15,001 I remember talking to her the next day and she said, 648 00:40:15,041 --> 00:40:18,321 "Oh, my God, I went on stage and Stevie Wonder 649 00:40:18,322 --> 00:40:20,962 was sitting in the front row." 650 00:40:20,962 --> 00:40:24,882 And we were Stevie Wonder freaks. 651 00:40:24,923 --> 00:40:27,483 So this was quite a leap, you know. 652 00:40:27,523 --> 00:40:29,843 I don't know no shame 653 00:40:29,842 --> 00:40:31,362 I feel no pain 654 00:40:31,363 --> 00:40:36,243 I can't see the flame 655 00:40:38,163 --> 00:40:43,843 But I do know Man-din-ka 656 00:40:45,844 --> 00:40:48,244 You know, you're there and you're looking 657 00:40:48,245 --> 00:40:50,005 at all these people that you've watched on the television 658 00:40:50,005 --> 00:40:51,805 and there's people like Quincy Jones and Stevie Wonder 659 00:40:51,804 --> 00:40:53,444 and I was just like... 660 00:40:53,445 --> 00:40:57,245 I do know Mandinka... 661 00:40:57,285 --> 00:40:59,445 As I sang Mandinka, I had "Jake's baby girl" 662 00:40:59,485 --> 00:41:01,965 on the back of my pants and I had Public Enemy logo painted 663 00:41:01,965 --> 00:41:03,845 into the side of my head. 664 00:41:03,846 --> 00:41:06,126 They decided they wouldn't go to the Grammy's 665 00:41:06,125 --> 00:41:08,485 quite rightly because they were protesting. 666 00:41:10,927 --> 00:41:14,807 I protested the Grammy's in 1989 667 00:41:14,806 --> 00:41:16,806 because they refused to recognize 668 00:41:16,807 --> 00:41:18,727 rap music and hip-hop 669 00:41:18,726 --> 00:41:21,206 as a legitimate musical category. 670 00:41:21,207 --> 00:41:23,807 I thought it was like admirable 671 00:41:23,807 --> 00:41:27,127 when she put the Public Enemy logo on her head. 672 00:41:27,128 --> 00:41:29,288 With Sin�ad O'Connor, you didn't get the sense 673 00:41:29,287 --> 00:41:30,967 that she was just being pretentious, 674 00:41:31,008 --> 00:41:32,648 that she was fake. 675 00:41:32,648 --> 00:41:34,168 It was like, yeah, 676 00:41:34,208 --> 00:41:36,888 she seriously has issues with this. 677 00:41:36,888 --> 00:41:39,128 This is what's going to drive her artistry, 678 00:41:39,128 --> 00:41:40,488 she's committed to that. 679 00:41:49,009 --> 00:41:51,609 It was a brilliant performance. 680 00:41:51,609 --> 00:41:53,849 At that point, she was the darling of everyone. 681 00:41:59,369 --> 00:42:00,969 In one way, I loved it. 682 00:42:00,970 --> 00:42:03,370 Obviously I was a very young woman 683 00:42:03,370 --> 00:42:06,130 and you kind of fantasize about being famous. 684 00:42:06,170 --> 00:42:09,730 In another way, I was frightened by it. 685 00:42:09,731 --> 00:42:12,131 What maybe was difficult for me was the timing 686 00:42:12,131 --> 00:42:14,091 of the success thing, it meant that I suddenly had 687 00:42:14,131 --> 00:42:18,171 this identity and I didn't feel like it was really me. 688 00:42:18,172 --> 00:42:21,892 To be honest, I also had very little self-esteem. 689 00:42:21,931 --> 00:42:24,811 I couldn't understand why anyone liked my records. 690 00:42:28,452 --> 00:42:31,012 Let me tell you how stupid I am. Um... 691 00:42:31,012 --> 00:42:33,092 Okay. 692 00:42:33,133 --> 00:42:34,893 We were sitting here doing this interview 693 00:42:34,893 --> 00:42:37,613 and I had accepted the fact that your head was shaved 694 00:42:37,613 --> 00:42:40,293 and didn't even think about it very much. 695 00:42:40,294 --> 00:42:42,614 Well, that's good, that means we don't have to talk about it. 696 00:42:42,612 --> 00:42:44,652 I know, but I see, everybody else in America 697 00:42:44,653 --> 00:42:46,413 is looking at me saying, 698 00:42:46,414 --> 00:42:48,734 "Why doesn't that idiot ask her why her head is shaved?" 699 00:42:48,773 --> 00:42:50,973 So now I'm doing it. 700 00:42:50,974 --> 00:42:54,014 I just cut my hair because I wanted to cut my hair, you know? 701 00:42:54,014 --> 00:42:56,214 It's like, you know, I wear red knickers one day 702 00:42:56,254 --> 00:42:58,574 because I want to wear red knickers, you know? 703 00:42:58,575 --> 00:43:00,415 And then black another day. 704 00:43:00,415 --> 00:43:02,055 We wouldn't call those knickers though, we'd call it... 705 00:43:02,095 --> 00:43:03,855 No. 706 00:43:11,815 --> 00:43:16,015 We got married at the spiritualist centre in Sloane Square 707 00:43:16,015 --> 00:43:19,175 and we'd been going to the spiritualist centre a lot 708 00:43:19,176 --> 00:43:21,736 because obviously, Sin�ad lost her mom, 709 00:43:21,776 --> 00:43:23,936 I'd lost my dad and a sister. 710 00:43:23,937 --> 00:43:26,177 And we were kind of trying to make 711 00:43:26,176 --> 00:43:29,936 some kind of spiritual connections if we could. 712 00:43:29,937 --> 00:43:32,537 It was a sort of a therapy for us in a way. 713 00:43:32,537 --> 00:43:36,057 We had an amazing time there, so we got married there. 714 00:43:36,057 --> 00:43:37,817 It was brilliant, it was a great day. 715 00:43:50,378 --> 00:43:54,778 In 1989, we filmed Hush-a-Bye Baby in Derry. 716 00:43:54,779 --> 00:43:57,379 And it was in that film Hush-a-Bye Baby 717 00:43:57,379 --> 00:43:59,819 that Sin�ad made her acting debut. 718 00:44:01,619 --> 00:44:03,379 She came over with John. 719 00:44:03,380 --> 00:44:05,820 She was fairly newly married, I think. 720 00:44:05,820 --> 00:44:07,820 She brought her little son, Jake, 721 00:44:07,860 --> 00:44:10,380 who was just a toddler at that stage. 722 00:44:10,420 --> 00:44:14,900 Of course, I only have eyes for Lecce Loves. 723 00:44:22,021 --> 00:44:24,941 Jesus Christ, Nigella. 724 00:44:24,941 --> 00:44:27,341 We'll be barred and it'll be your fault. 725 00:44:27,342 --> 00:44:29,822 Sloppy tit, going on about what's his face. 726 00:44:35,021 --> 00:44:37,461 We were trying to contribute to the debate 727 00:44:37,462 --> 00:44:41,182 that was raging in Ireland at the time about abortion rights 728 00:44:41,182 --> 00:44:44,462 and women's sexuality and how women were being treated. 729 00:44:44,463 --> 00:44:46,423 And I think she had exactly the same feelings 730 00:44:46,463 --> 00:44:49,543 like so many thousands of other women, 731 00:44:49,584 --> 00:44:52,944 especially young women. 732 00:44:52,944 --> 00:44:55,904 It's about a 15-year-old school girl who gets pregnant 733 00:44:55,943 --> 00:44:59,583 and about the obvious trauma and awfulness 734 00:44:59,584 --> 00:45:01,584 that she goes through because of the fact 735 00:45:01,584 --> 00:45:03,584 that she's pregnant and the fact that teenage pregnancy 736 00:45:03,584 --> 00:45:05,784 is just the worst thing that could possibly happen 737 00:45:05,784 --> 00:45:08,664 and people aren't very supportive about it in general. 738 00:45:08,705 --> 00:45:11,425 And girls are made to feel as if they're sluts 739 00:45:11,425 --> 00:45:14,425 and they're some sort of whore, you know, 740 00:45:14,426 --> 00:45:16,306 for sleeping with somebody and things like that. 741 00:45:16,305 --> 00:45:18,105 And because of things like the church 742 00:45:18,145 --> 00:45:20,785 and the contraceptive laws and all that sort of thing 743 00:45:20,785 --> 00:45:21,865 and the abortion laws. 744 00:45:27,266 --> 00:45:31,466 In the 80s and 90s and obviously the decades before that, 745 00:45:31,467 --> 00:45:35,067 women were treated abominably in Ireland. 746 00:45:35,067 --> 00:45:40,987 Women's lives were patrolled and investigated and surveilled 747 00:45:40,987 --> 00:45:45,187 and tampered with every minute of their lives. 748 00:45:45,227 --> 00:45:46,867 It was appalling. 749 00:45:52,268 --> 00:45:53,828 There was a sense of being in this 750 00:45:53,829 --> 00:45:55,949 little backward place, you know, 751 00:45:55,948 --> 00:45:57,908 where the light wasn't really shining brightly 752 00:45:57,909 --> 00:45:59,989 and you couldn't get contraception, 753 00:46:00,028 --> 00:46:03,988 you couldn't get condoms, so this was a big issue. 754 00:46:03,989 --> 00:46:07,269 You didn't talk about sex and you certainly didn't talk about abortion. 755 00:46:10,390 --> 00:46:12,790 It's quite a similar story to your own, isn't it? 756 00:46:12,790 --> 00:46:14,590 No. 757 00:46:14,590 --> 00:46:16,750 You had a baby when you were very young. 758 00:46:16,791 --> 00:46:20,991 Last time you told me that there were certain attitudes in Ireland. 759 00:46:21,031 --> 00:46:22,671 Yeah, except I had a baby when I was 20 760 00:46:22,669 --> 00:46:24,669 and I was living in London and I had enough money 761 00:46:24,670 --> 00:46:27,110 to get a nanny and I had a boyfriend who was living with me 762 00:46:27,111 --> 00:46:29,231 and I wasn't in school. 763 00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:33,830 And I was in a society that doesn't look down on pregnancy 764 00:46:33,832 --> 00:46:35,752 as much as Ireland does. 765 00:46:35,751 --> 00:46:39,711 So I don't think you can compare that to a 15-year-old girl 766 00:46:39,752 --> 00:46:42,752 who has no money and no boyfriend and no support 767 00:46:42,753 --> 00:46:44,193 from anybody, you know what I mean? 768 00:46:44,232 --> 00:46:47,792 - I think I was in very... - nice circumstances 769 00:46:47,792 --> 00:46:50,152 compared to those girls. 770 00:46:59,434 --> 00:47:03,034 It seems years Since you held the baby... 771 00:47:03,034 --> 00:47:04,754 When you put your first album out, 772 00:47:04,794 --> 00:47:06,594 you don't really expect anything to happen. 773 00:47:06,594 --> 00:47:09,194 You don't have any expectations in you when you do that. 774 00:47:09,193 --> 00:47:13,153 You're not aware of the whole world 775 00:47:13,155 --> 00:47:15,035 of goodies and baddies 776 00:47:15,034 --> 00:47:17,474 to be discovered. 777 00:47:17,515 --> 00:47:20,755 And I remember I was quite taken aback by the whole thing, 778 00:47:20,795 --> 00:47:23,715 amused at the idea of me sitting and doing press conferences 779 00:47:23,756 --> 00:47:24,836 and things like that because it was just 780 00:47:24,835 --> 00:47:27,835 like completely ludicrous. 781 00:47:27,835 --> 00:47:29,835 You know, at the time that I had my baby 782 00:47:29,876 --> 00:47:31,916 and put my album out I was 20, 783 00:47:31,915 --> 00:47:34,275 which was extremely young. 784 00:47:34,316 --> 00:47:37,756 And now I'm 23 which is still extremely young 785 00:47:37,796 --> 00:47:42,356 and I'm still developing my "personality", in inverted commas. 786 00:47:42,396 --> 00:47:45,396 And I'm still discovering things about myself 787 00:47:45,397 --> 00:47:47,557 and about the world, you know? 788 00:47:47,557 --> 00:47:50,797 So naturally, I'm not going to be the same 789 00:47:50,797 --> 00:47:52,277 as I was when I was 20. 790 00:47:54,997 --> 00:47:57,957 When the album "I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got", 791 00:47:57,958 --> 00:48:02,438 was finished, we took it into Nigel Grange in Ensign 792 00:48:02,478 --> 00:48:05,438 and he said, "This is like reading somebody's diaries. 793 00:48:05,478 --> 00:48:07,438 I'm not putting it out." 794 00:48:07,439 --> 00:48:09,359 Sin�ad just said, "Well, that's it," 795 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,120 you know, end of story. 796 00:48:12,118 --> 00:48:13,798 Didn't compromise it in any way. 797 00:48:15,959 --> 00:48:18,839 Well, I am far more proud of this album 798 00:48:18,839 --> 00:48:20,399 than I was of the last one. 799 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,520 I feel that it's much more truly reflective 800 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:24,240 of me than the last one was. 801 00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:25,600 And I've had much more involvement in it 802 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:26,680 than I had in the last one. 803 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,360 The way she grew in confidence 804 00:48:31,361 --> 00:48:32,961 was something else. 805 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,240 She's a powerful, sexual being. 806 00:48:38,281 --> 00:48:43,121 I think she was enjoying playing with the gender roles, 807 00:48:43,122 --> 00:48:45,042 the kind of toughness of the leather jacket 808 00:48:45,081 --> 00:48:48,161 and the toughness of denim or the Dr. Martin boots 809 00:48:48,162 --> 00:48:52,442 or whatever it was that she was bringing at the time. 810 00:48:52,483 --> 00:48:54,963 There's always still this beautiful woman, 811 00:48:54,963 --> 00:48:56,563 beautiful girl inside of that. 812 00:48:56,562 --> 00:48:59,642 So she was playing with gender herself. 813 00:49:03,963 --> 00:49:09,163 She came to understand the nature of what we were doing 814 00:49:09,164 --> 00:49:11,604 with pop videos and also, obviously, at a certain point 815 00:49:11,604 --> 00:49:16,124 with a certain video, we came to understand just how much 816 00:49:16,125 --> 00:49:19,925 the videos could change the perception of the music 817 00:49:19,924 --> 00:49:21,284 and her as a musician. 818 00:49:36,406 --> 00:49:38,406 "The Nothing Compares To You" video, 819 00:49:38,446 --> 00:49:42,006 she came back with all the rushes on a VHS 820 00:49:42,045 --> 00:49:44,165 and we've stuck it into the video machine, I was watching it. 821 00:49:44,166 --> 00:49:47,246 And that's when I thought, "Wow, this is really, 822 00:49:47,246 --> 00:49:48,846 really special." 823 00:49:52,607 --> 00:49:56,167 The video was shot both in studio and it was shot 824 00:49:56,168 --> 00:49:59,888 in the Parc Saint-Cloud, which is this beautiful 825 00:49:59,888 --> 00:50:03,088 18th-century park just outside of Paris. 826 00:50:09,007 --> 00:50:12,047 The extraordinary close-up work that John did 827 00:50:12,048 --> 00:50:15,448 with the lighting camerawoman, Dominique Le Rigoleur, 828 00:50:15,448 --> 00:50:19,288 who we chose particularly because we wanted a female 829 00:50:19,290 --> 00:50:23,850 to create a relationship between Sin�ad and the camera. 830 00:50:30,410 --> 00:50:32,490 In between takes, 831 00:50:32,490 --> 00:50:36,170 Sin�ad would click on some really heavy duty dub reggae 832 00:50:36,211 --> 00:50:38,891 and light up a spliff, and be bopping around the studio. 833 00:50:42,211 --> 00:50:44,891 We weren't in a kind of particularly sombre mood. 834 00:50:46,851 --> 00:50:50,651 Looking into my monitor, looking down that lens, 835 00:50:50,651 --> 00:50:54,531 I saw right there, this connection coming down the camera... 836 00:50:55,732 --> 00:50:57,812 It was like, "Oh, okay, 837 00:50:57,812 --> 00:51:00,692 this is really something else. 838 00:51:00,692 --> 00:51:03,732 It's not my direction, it's not the cinematography, 839 00:51:03,733 --> 00:51:05,293 it's entirely her." 840 00:51:08,492 --> 00:51:10,452 If you don't 841 00:51:10,493 --> 00:51:12,853 identify emotionally with a song, you can't sing it. 842 00:51:33,575 --> 00:51:35,495 I didn't know I was gonna cry singing it. 843 00:51:35,534 --> 00:51:37,134 I didn't cry in the studio, 844 00:51:37,175 --> 00:51:38,735 it was just because of the big eye on me 845 00:51:38,775 --> 00:51:40,415 in the form of a camera. 846 00:51:45,135 --> 00:51:47,775 Every time I sing the song, I think of my mother. 847 00:51:50,856 --> 00:51:53,056 I never stopped crying for my mother for, Jesus, 848 00:51:53,056 --> 00:51:56,296 I couldn't face being in Ireland for 13 years. 849 00:51:56,297 --> 00:51:59,657 I never even called home, I just cut myself off entirely 850 00:51:59,657 --> 00:52:03,897 but it took me, I would say, 25 years to stop crying. 851 00:52:03,937 --> 00:52:07,217 So yeah, I was thinking of her and I suppose my subconscious 852 00:52:07,218 --> 00:52:09,898 was thinking of that little girl that sat in the garden. 853 00:52:15,057 --> 00:52:17,657 I think it's funny that the world fell in love with me 854 00:52:17,658 --> 00:52:19,938 because of crying and a tear. 855 00:52:19,978 --> 00:52:21,618 I went and did a lot of crying 856 00:52:21,618 --> 00:52:22,818 and everybody was like, "Oh, you crazy bitch," 857 00:52:22,819 --> 00:52:24,859 but actually, hold on. 858 00:52:24,858 --> 00:52:26,818 You fell in love with that tear, that was a mirror. 859 00:52:35,180 --> 00:52:38,700 Sit yourself down, well done. 860 00:52:38,699 --> 00:52:41,179 - The hair is growing! - Just a little bit. 861 00:52:41,180 --> 00:52:43,060 Just a little bit, a wee bit. 862 00:52:43,060 --> 00:52:44,580 How are you then? 863 00:52:44,580 --> 00:52:46,260 I'm grand, I'm a bit tired, but I'm fine. 864 00:52:46,261 --> 00:52:47,901 - A little bit tired, yeah. - So we're told. 865 00:52:47,940 --> 00:52:49,580 Good to see you. Will you be number one on Monday? 866 00:52:49,621 --> 00:52:50,861 I don't know, you know. 867 00:52:53,301 --> 00:52:54,981 You're all very kind. 868 00:52:55,021 --> 00:52:56,061 I don't want to count my chickens. 869 00:52:56,062 --> 00:52:58,302 You know what I mean? 870 00:52:58,301 --> 00:53:00,821 Half of me sorta says, oh, well, you know, 871 00:53:00,861 --> 00:53:02,341 it doesn't really make a difference, 872 00:53:02,342 --> 00:53:04,022 but then the other half is sort of going, 873 00:53:04,022 --> 00:53:05,942 oh, please, God, please.- 874 00:53:05,942 --> 00:53:07,662 It would be nice, wouldn't it? 875 00:53:07,702 --> 00:53:09,102 We shouldn't even be thinking about this. 876 00:53:09,143 --> 00:53:10,143 Shouldn't even be thinking about it, okay. 877 00:53:10,142 --> 00:53:11,902 When will you know? 878 00:53:11,902 --> 00:53:13,982 Ten to three on Sunday afternoon. 879 00:53:17,183 --> 00:53:19,463 But I've got to try not to think about it. 880 00:53:19,504 --> 00:53:21,184 The song went number one, 881 00:53:21,223 --> 00:53:24,223 everywhere in the world pretty much. 882 00:53:24,223 --> 00:53:26,223 Then everything changed overnight. 883 00:53:26,264 --> 00:53:30,064 - And the winner is... - Sin�ad O'Connor. 884 00:53:30,104 --> 00:53:32,264 - Sin�ad O'Connor. - Sin�ad O'Connor. 885 00:53:35,585 --> 00:53:36,665 I don't really know what to say, 886 00:53:36,665 --> 00:53:37,945 except thank you very much. 887 00:53:38,905 --> 00:53:40,865 You know, peace. 888 00:53:44,944 --> 00:53:47,464 It's Sin�ad O'Connor. 889 00:53:49,186 --> 00:53:51,306 Sin�ad, "Nothing Compares To You." 890 00:53:53,586 --> 00:53:55,826 The level of when "Nothing Compares To You" 891 00:53:55,866 --> 00:53:57,586 became a hit was extraordinary. 892 00:53:57,626 --> 00:53:59,186 It really was off the scale. 893 00:54:00,427 --> 00:54:02,347 She was the biggest thing. 894 00:54:02,347 --> 00:54:03,787 I mean you think of artists like Billie Eilish now 895 00:54:03,827 --> 00:54:06,067 or Amy Winehouse, 896 00:54:06,067 --> 00:54:08,587 you know that level of intensity that's on you. 897 00:54:08,586 --> 00:54:13,106 And also if you're incredibly iconic in your look 898 00:54:13,107 --> 00:54:15,107 and your style and your passion, 899 00:54:15,107 --> 00:54:16,867 then there's a lot of focus on you. 900 00:54:21,748 --> 00:54:24,668 I didn't realize how huge the single and the album were. 901 00:54:24,708 --> 00:54:26,308 I really didn't. 902 00:54:26,308 --> 00:54:27,748 And I looked in some magazine the other day 903 00:54:27,788 --> 00:54:30,188 and it said that the record had been 904 00:54:30,228 --> 00:54:33,468 something like the fourth biggest record in America, 905 00:54:33,509 --> 00:54:34,989 I nearly dropped dead. 906 00:54:34,988 --> 00:54:36,788 I didn't have the slightest idea. 907 00:54:36,789 --> 00:54:39,029 The single went to number one in America. 908 00:54:39,070 --> 00:54:41,830 She was suddenly a major act. 909 00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:50,950 Hello! 910 00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:56,150 The tour got bigger and bigger instead of theatres, 911 00:54:56,151 --> 00:54:59,751 we got into arenas and stadiums. 912 00:55:01,631 --> 00:55:04,671 It seems like years Since you held the baby 913 00:55:04,671 --> 00:55:07,991 While I wrecked the bedroom 914 00:55:08,032 --> 00:55:12,152 You said it was Dangerous after Sunday 915 00:55:12,152 --> 00:55:15,272 And I knew you loved me... 916 00:55:15,271 --> 00:55:17,551 She seemed to take it all in her stride. 917 00:55:17,552 --> 00:55:19,952 There were some days when she was sort of like, 918 00:55:19,953 --> 00:55:23,153 "Oh, this is a bit much," most of the time she seemed to enjoy it. 919 00:55:23,153 --> 00:55:24,753 There was obviously a feeling of like, 920 00:55:24,753 --> 00:55:26,353 "Oh, well, this is going to be great." 921 00:55:26,353 --> 00:55:27,953 It was going to be good anyway, 922 00:55:27,993 --> 00:55:29,513 but this is going to be really good. 923 00:55:40,434 --> 00:55:45,314 I am stretched On your grave 924 00:55:45,315 --> 00:55:50,595 And will lie there forever 925 00:55:50,595 --> 00:55:55,715 If your hands were in mine 926 00:55:55,715 --> 00:56:00,475 I'd be sure we'd not sever 927 00:56:03,396 --> 00:56:09,756 My apple tree My brightness 928 00:56:09,757 --> 00:56:15,197 It's time we were together 929 00:56:18,637 --> 00:56:23,917 For I smell of the earth 930 00:56:23,917 --> 00:56:29,837 And am worn By the weather... 931 00:56:29,838 --> 00:56:31,838 About halfway through the tour, 932 00:56:31,879 --> 00:56:33,959 we did a place in New Jersey. 933 00:56:33,958 --> 00:56:36,038 It was an open air venue. 934 00:56:36,039 --> 00:56:38,399 For some reason, 935 00:56:38,398 --> 00:56:39,958 they always played the National Anthem before the main act. 936 00:56:39,998 --> 00:56:41,078 Sin�ad got to hear about it, and said 937 00:56:41,078 --> 00:56:43,518 "There's no way. 938 00:56:43,519 --> 00:56:45,839 I'm not going on stage if you play the National Anthem." 939 00:56:45,839 --> 00:56:49,039 So there was a bit of an argument between management 940 00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,240 and management of the venue, 941 00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,119 but in the end, the venue relented, they said, 942 00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:54,440 - "Alright, alright. - If you don't want it played, 943 00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,880 we won't play it." 944 00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:58,880 And I thought, "Oh, this is going to be everywhere tomorrow." 945 00:56:58,881 --> 00:57:02,001 Going down to breakfast, you hear the immortal words. 946 00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,360 "Oh, God, have you seen the papers?" 947 00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:09,800 First, the explosion, then the fallout. 948 00:57:09,801 --> 00:57:12,241 Hi, 95.5 PLJ, it's Fast Jimmy, 949 00:57:12,242 --> 00:57:15,242 and you will hear no Sin�ad O'Connor on this radio station. 950 00:57:15,242 --> 00:57:17,282 Sin�ad O'Connor is being shaved 951 00:57:17,282 --> 00:57:19,802 from the airwaves because of a recent refusal 952 00:57:19,802 --> 00:57:23,002 to perform in concert if the National Anthem was played. 953 00:57:23,042 --> 00:57:25,082 With American soldiers on foreign soil 954 00:57:25,081 --> 00:57:26,721 poised for conflict, 955 00:57:26,762 --> 00:57:29,082 patriotism is running at fever pitch. 956 00:57:29,083 --> 00:57:31,283 We decided Monday morning, that since we played 957 00:57:31,322 --> 00:57:33,082 the National Anthem on our station 958 00:57:33,123 --> 00:57:35,363 to support the troops over in the Middle East, 959 00:57:35,364 --> 00:57:36,964 that she probably wouldn't welcome 960 00:57:36,963 --> 00:57:38,283 being played on our station either. 961 00:57:38,323 --> 00:57:39,963 The wrong time, the wrong place 962 00:57:39,964 --> 00:57:41,884 and the wrong way to throw a tantrum. 963 00:57:41,884 --> 00:57:43,004 Someone should just have said to her, 964 00:57:43,044 --> 00:57:44,244 within her own management, 965 00:57:44,283 --> 00:57:46,403 "Sin�ad, shut up." 966 00:57:46,444 --> 00:57:48,404 You don't like America, then get the hell out. 967 00:57:48,404 --> 00:57:50,724 My opinion is she should go back to Ireland 968 00:57:50,724 --> 00:57:52,684 or wherever the hell she is from. 969 00:57:52,685 --> 00:57:56,285 Don't tell my country, you can't play the National Anthem. 970 00:57:56,285 --> 00:58:00,485 I didn't put the marine green on to listen to some bald-headed Irish girl 971 00:58:00,485 --> 00:58:02,845 tell me I can't hear my National Anthem. 972 00:58:02,886 --> 00:58:05,566 She wants the money, the fame and the glorification. 973 00:58:05,566 --> 00:58:08,046 But she's going to have to be sensitive to some issues. 974 00:58:08,085 --> 00:58:10,525 One extreme patriot is Frank Sinatra, 975 00:58:10,565 --> 00:58:12,885 who said he would like to kick her ass. 976 00:58:12,886 --> 00:58:15,326 "At his age, he couldn't lift his leg high enough 977 00:58:15,367 --> 00:58:17,647 to kick her ass", says Sin�ad's father, John O'Connor. 978 00:58:21,206 --> 00:58:22,846 As soon as someone highlighted 979 00:58:22,887 --> 00:58:24,567 that it had to be played, she would say, 980 00:58:24,567 --> 00:58:26,207 - "- Well, you can't censor me. - This is my show 981 00:58:26,248 --> 00:58:28,848 and why are you telling me what to do?" 982 00:58:28,847 --> 00:58:31,367 America is the land of free speech, and they're telling her 983 00:58:31,367 --> 00:58:34,487 she's not allowed to have her free speech. 984 00:58:34,487 --> 00:58:39,287 - Issue number 3, the bald chick. - What's with her head? 985 00:58:39,288 --> 00:58:42,208 - Let's start with the chick. - What gives, Cue ball? 986 00:58:42,249 --> 00:58:45,409 I'm looking at you. I'm thinking 14 in the side pocket. 987 00:58:49,010 --> 00:58:50,730 I can't believe you're talking 988 00:58:50,728 --> 00:58:52,768 about my hair with all the bloody starvation 989 00:58:52,809 --> 00:58:55,009 and the suffering in the world right now. 990 00:58:57,609 --> 00:59:01,849 - Come on, swing baby, you're platinum. - Forget the head. 991 00:59:01,890 --> 00:59:05,050 Put a bag over it and do your business. 992 00:59:05,051 --> 00:59:06,971 I think that, certainly, the industry 993 00:59:06,970 --> 00:59:10,090 can be extremely patronizing towards women. 994 00:59:10,131 --> 00:59:12,291 You're supposed to have long hair wear push-up bras 995 00:59:12,330 --> 00:59:15,410 and lip gloss, you know, and shut up and sing. 996 00:59:15,451 --> 00:59:18,011 Maybe if I was a man, there wouldn't be such a fuss about it 997 00:59:18,010 --> 00:59:19,730 you know what I mean? 998 00:59:19,771 --> 00:59:21,451 It's just not expected of women, I don't know. 999 00:59:21,491 --> 00:59:25,171 But then nothing about me, particularly, in people's minds, 1000 00:59:25,172 --> 00:59:28,412 conforms to what a woman should conform to. 1001 00:59:28,413 --> 00:59:30,053 But I don't know if it's so much a conscious problem 1002 00:59:30,092 --> 00:59:32,492 that they have because I'm a woman. 1003 00:59:32,493 --> 00:59:37,093 I think it's because I'm not a conformist on any level. 1004 00:59:37,092 --> 00:59:39,252 You know what I mean? 1005 00:59:39,253 --> 00:59:40,373 Tell me about this row about the National Anthem, 1006 00:59:40,373 --> 00:59:42,493 were you right to get into that? 1007 00:59:42,533 --> 00:59:44,733 I don't think it was a situation being wrong or right. 1008 00:59:44,733 --> 00:59:46,773 It was a situation of, I acted at the time 1009 00:59:46,813 --> 00:59:50,613 in the way that I felt would be most true to myself. 1010 00:59:50,654 --> 00:59:52,534 I didn't mean to offend anybody. 1011 00:59:52,534 --> 00:59:56,214 I did it because I have a huge problem 1012 00:59:56,215 --> 00:59:57,695 with the censorship movement 1013 00:59:57,693 --> 00:59:58,933 that's happening in America at the moment. 1014 00:59:58,934 --> 01:00:00,934 It has terrible implications. 1015 01:00:00,934 --> 01:00:02,814 The idea that artists, you know, 1016 01:00:02,815 --> 01:00:04,975 painters, photographers, musicians, poets, 1017 01:00:05,015 --> 01:00:06,535 and people like that 1018 01:00:06,535 --> 01:00:08,215 are being told what they may and may not say 1019 01:00:08,256 --> 01:00:09,936 and what they may or may not write about. 1020 01:00:09,935 --> 01:00:11,895 - Where is that happening? - -In America, 1021 01:00:11,896 --> 01:00:15,016 in particular among the Black community it's happening. 1022 01:00:15,016 --> 01:00:16,936 So, I have two problems with it. 1023 01:00:16,936 --> 01:00:19,016 First of all, that I don't think censorship should happen 1024 01:00:19,016 --> 01:00:20,696 at all to anybody. 1025 01:00:20,695 --> 01:00:21,895 But secondly, I think that a lot of the time 1026 01:00:21,896 --> 01:00:23,096 there's a lot of White artists 1027 01:00:23,136 --> 01:00:24,936 who are very offensive as well, 1028 01:00:24,937 --> 01:00:26,337 and they don't get censored. 1029 01:00:26,376 --> 01:00:28,456 So it leaves me thinking that it's 1030 01:00:28,457 --> 01:00:31,217 a slightly racist problem as well. 1031 01:00:31,257 --> 01:00:33,217 So, you know, if it happened now, 1032 01:00:33,257 --> 01:00:35,657 I might've reacted in a different way, 1033 01:00:35,658 --> 01:00:37,938 I didn't realize that people would take such offence to it. 1034 01:00:37,937 --> 01:00:40,697 - Because I didn't mean offence. - You know what I mean? 1035 01:00:40,697 --> 01:00:42,057 The problem is that a lot of people would say, 1036 01:00:42,098 --> 01:00:44,098 well, you didn't not take the money. 1037 01:00:44,097 --> 01:00:45,537 You know, if they asked me for the money, 1038 01:00:45,538 --> 01:00:47,058 I would gladly have given it to them. 1039 01:00:47,058 --> 01:00:48,378 - You would, you would. - All the money? 1040 01:00:48,378 --> 01:00:50,658 - Absolutely. - All the money, Sin�ad? 1041 01:00:50,658 --> 01:00:53,298 Can't go through life giving back the money. 1042 01:00:53,339 --> 01:00:54,899 I don't perform or make records or do anything 1043 01:00:54,939 --> 01:00:56,339 in order to make money. 1044 01:00:56,379 --> 01:00:57,579 It's not the thing that I hold 1045 01:00:57,579 --> 01:00:59,659 most important in my life. 1046 01:00:59,659 --> 01:01:01,779 Well, I heard that she doesn't like Ireland 1047 01:01:01,780 --> 01:01:04,580 and she doesn't like the USA. 1048 01:01:04,579 --> 01:01:07,179 So they're going to be handing out American flags. 1049 01:01:07,219 --> 01:01:10,259 So we're going to wave it at her and see what she does. 1050 01:01:10,260 --> 01:01:12,940 Controversy surrounds her wherever she is. 1051 01:01:12,940 --> 01:01:14,060 Why do you think that is? 1052 01:01:14,060 --> 01:01:15,900 Just because of who she is. 1053 01:01:15,901 --> 01:01:18,421 - I don't think she gets a fair... - because of the way she looks, 1054 01:01:18,421 --> 01:01:19,901 I don't think people treat her fairly. 1055 01:01:22,102 --> 01:01:23,862 It's a very patriotic country. 1056 01:01:23,901 --> 01:01:25,901 And a lot of people have been told 1057 01:01:25,901 --> 01:01:29,221 that I have some sort of anti-American feeling, 1058 01:01:29,261 --> 01:01:31,621 which is very irresponsible on behalf of the media, 1059 01:01:31,662 --> 01:01:35,462 because that does put a person in a situation 1060 01:01:35,502 --> 01:01:37,182 where literally their life could be at risk. 1061 01:01:37,182 --> 01:01:38,702 You know what I mean? 1062 01:01:41,342 --> 01:01:42,982 When the press started to attack her 1063 01:01:42,983 --> 01:01:45,463 that was really difficult. 1064 01:01:45,463 --> 01:01:49,503 They arrived at the door in London and Jake was with me 1065 01:01:49,503 --> 01:01:51,703 and he was only very young 1066 01:01:51,703 --> 01:01:53,903 and they started to fire questions, 1067 01:01:53,903 --> 01:01:56,103 you know, while Jake was next to me. 1068 01:01:56,104 --> 01:01:58,944 - And I just, I just was... - I was absolutely furious. 1069 01:02:04,104 --> 01:02:09,504 Margaret Thatcher on TV 1070 01:02:09,504 --> 01:02:14,664 Shocked by the deaths That took place in Beijing... 1071 01:02:14,705 --> 01:02:17,265 She's always championed justice. 1072 01:02:17,265 --> 01:02:19,265 You know, if something wasn't right, 1073 01:02:19,265 --> 01:02:21,945 she would step in and try and do something about it. 1074 01:02:24,826 --> 01:02:26,826 Listen, this song that I heard, 1075 01:02:26,826 --> 01:02:28,506 "Black Boys on Mopeds" 1076 01:02:28,507 --> 01:02:30,707 about the treatment of Black people in England. 1077 01:02:30,705 --> 01:02:33,745 Very political, Sin�ad. 1078 01:02:33,746 --> 01:02:35,466 Well you can't really talk about racism 1079 01:02:35,467 --> 01:02:36,987 without being political. 1080 01:02:36,986 --> 01:02:40,106 Yes. True, true. 1081 01:02:40,107 --> 01:02:41,747 England's not The mythical land 1082 01:02:41,747 --> 01:02:45,027 Of Madame George and roses 1083 01:02:45,028 --> 01:02:48,268 It's the home of police 1084 01:02:48,268 --> 01:02:52,068 Who kill Black boys On mopeds 1085 01:02:52,069 --> 01:02:55,109 And I love my boy 1086 01:02:55,148 --> 01:02:59,068 And that's why I'm leaving 1087 01:02:59,068 --> 01:03:02,708 I don't want him To be aware that there's 1088 01:03:02,709 --> 01:03:06,709 Any such thing as grieving 1089 01:03:09,390 --> 01:03:14,470 Young mother Down at Smithfield 1090 01:03:14,509 --> 01:03:18,869 5:00 a.m., looking for food For her kids... 1091 01:03:18,870 --> 01:03:20,870 We were living in Stoke Newington 1092 01:03:20,910 --> 01:03:23,710 when she wrote that song, you know, it was around us, 1093 01:03:23,750 --> 01:03:27,470 you know, that kind of police versus the Black community. 1094 01:03:27,470 --> 01:03:29,110 It was ugly at that point, 1095 01:03:29,111 --> 01:03:31,111 particularly in that part of London. 1096 01:03:31,111 --> 01:03:33,071 The police are picking on children! 1097 01:03:33,111 --> 01:03:34,511 I write songs about things 1098 01:03:34,551 --> 01:03:36,471 that I feel strongly about. 1099 01:03:36,511 --> 01:03:38,351 It's not consciously to write a political song 1100 01:03:38,351 --> 01:03:39,871 or consciously to make a statement about anything. 1101 01:03:39,911 --> 01:03:42,351 And I think that that's what every person's duty 1102 01:03:42,352 --> 01:03:45,912 to themselves is, is to act on their feelings and to say, 1103 01:03:45,952 --> 01:03:48,392 when they think something's wrong. 1104 01:03:48,393 --> 01:03:50,233 It doesn't matter whether they're, you know, a singer, or whatever they are. 1105 01:03:50,232 --> 01:03:52,272 Yes, and take the consequences. 1106 01:03:52,313 --> 01:03:53,553 I imagine so. 1107 01:03:58,713 --> 01:04:00,513 I'm an Irish artist, 1108 01:04:00,553 --> 01:04:02,073 and there's a tradition among Irish artists 1109 01:04:02,073 --> 01:04:04,033 of being agitators and activists. 1110 01:04:04,073 --> 01:04:06,073 You know, whether they're playwrights or poets. 1111 01:04:08,274 --> 01:04:11,074 An artists job is sometimes to create 1112 01:04:11,114 --> 01:04:13,914 the difficult conversations that need to be had. 1113 01:04:13,914 --> 01:04:15,634 And it's none of my business, 1114 01:04:15,675 --> 01:04:17,755 what anyone thinks of me when I do that. 1115 01:04:22,515 --> 01:04:24,635 The right to choose an abortion, 1116 01:04:24,635 --> 01:04:27,555 the right to information on where to obtain one. 1117 01:04:27,555 --> 01:04:30,315 In Dublin's O'Connell street, singer Sin�ad O'Connor 1118 01:04:30,315 --> 01:04:34,235 speaks out against her country's stringent abortion laws. 1119 01:04:34,276 --> 01:04:37,476 Abortion will be legalized in this country very soon. 1120 01:04:37,516 --> 01:04:39,276 Let's have another referendum 1121 01:04:39,317 --> 01:04:42,317 when only women of childbearing age vote 1122 01:04:42,317 --> 01:04:45,077 for the right to choose their own destiny. 1123 01:04:45,077 --> 01:04:47,517 What I believe is that you cannot take away 1124 01:04:47,516 --> 01:04:49,276 a person's right to choose. 1125 01:04:49,277 --> 01:04:51,957 It is not a pro-abortion or an anti-abortion issue. 1126 01:04:51,957 --> 01:04:54,157 The issue is the right to choose. 1127 01:04:54,197 --> 01:04:56,797 The church deliberately distract us from that, 1128 01:04:56,838 --> 01:04:59,998 by making it into an either anti or for, 1129 01:04:59,998 --> 01:05:01,838 - you know what I mean? - But it's not that. 1130 01:05:01,839 --> 01:05:03,799 It's the right to choose your own destiny. 1131 01:05:03,798 --> 01:05:05,478 And it's none of anybody else's business, 1132 01:05:05,478 --> 01:05:08,518 not your mother or your father or anybody else. 1133 01:05:08,519 --> 01:05:09,639 Or your priest. 1134 01:05:12,519 --> 01:05:14,759 I never felt that Sin�ad would cave 1135 01:05:14,799 --> 01:05:18,199 to any pressure. Ever. 1136 01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:23,640 Then she just seemed to become really controversial about everything. 1137 01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:25,520 Two weeks before the Grammys, 1138 01:05:25,521 --> 01:05:27,881 O'Connor threw down the gauntlet to her peers 1139 01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,240 announcing she would not attend the ceremonies 1140 01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:32,680 because the music industry was driven by greed 1141 01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:34,440 and artists were not speaking out 1142 01:05:34,441 --> 01:05:36,521 against the war in the Gulf. 1143 01:05:36,561 --> 01:05:39,081 It is the creative community that are driven by greed. 1144 01:05:39,121 --> 01:05:40,881 That's why none of them are saying anything 1145 01:05:40,881 --> 01:05:42,241 because they're afraid their careers 1146 01:05:42,242 --> 01:05:43,842 are going to be in jeopardy. 1147 01:05:43,881 --> 01:05:46,601 It's why nobody has said anything about the war. 1148 01:05:46,642 --> 01:05:48,922 When Sin�ad refused to perform at the Grammys, 1149 01:05:48,921 --> 01:05:51,201 I was under a lot of pressure to change her mind. 1150 01:05:51,242 --> 01:05:53,962 As if that were even possible. 1151 01:05:53,961 --> 01:05:56,601 It wasn't like threatening-threatening, 1152 01:05:56,642 --> 01:06:00,922 but I felt that my career could certainly be in jeopardy, 1153 01:06:00,962 --> 01:06:02,522 and Sin�ad's as well. 1154 01:06:02,563 --> 01:06:04,403 These were powerful people in the industry. 1155 01:06:07,724 --> 01:06:10,644 I didn't think that the powers that be were ready for her. 1156 01:06:12,203 --> 01:06:14,283 Where she's from, 1157 01:06:14,283 --> 01:06:18,803 artists had always stepped forward and said things, 1158 01:06:18,844 --> 01:06:21,564 but maybe in different genres, 1159 01:06:21,605 --> 01:06:25,045 and not so much as a pop superstar. 1160 01:06:25,045 --> 01:06:28,165 And Sin�ad O'Connor, well, she was becoming a pop superstar. 1161 01:06:34,244 --> 01:06:37,124 Okay, so this is my favourite place in the universe, 1162 01:06:37,125 --> 01:06:39,045 which is St. Mark's place. 1163 01:06:39,086 --> 01:06:41,166 All the Rastas live there, 1164 01:06:41,166 --> 01:06:42,846 and all the Irish people live here, which is why I like it, 1165 01:06:42,846 --> 01:06:44,126 because Rastas and Irish people should live together, 1166 01:06:44,126 --> 01:06:46,126 since they're both the same. 1167 01:06:46,126 --> 01:06:47,686 And this is Sin�. 1168 01:06:50,926 --> 01:06:53,486 The object of my game coming into the music business was 1169 01:06:53,487 --> 01:06:57,087 I really saw it as something like a bit of a chess game. 1170 01:06:57,086 --> 01:06:59,166 Could I get from one side of the board to the other 1171 01:06:59,167 --> 01:07:01,527 and still be myself and still be true to my reasons 1172 01:07:01,528 --> 01:07:03,448 for being in the music business? 1173 01:07:03,487 --> 01:07:05,567 And also, I suppose, spiritually true to myself, 1174 01:07:05,608 --> 01:07:07,568 do you know what I mean? 1175 01:07:07,607 --> 01:07:09,007 The music business can be a bit of a vampiric arena. 1176 01:07:09,008 --> 01:07:10,528 That's Charlie. 1177 01:07:10,528 --> 01:07:12,328 The first one's Charlie, and that's Charlton. 1178 01:07:12,329 --> 01:07:14,449 - Say hello to Jake. - Hi, Jake. 1179 01:07:14,489 --> 01:07:15,969 Gary. 1180 01:07:16,009 --> 01:07:17,249 - Yes? - Say hello to Jake. 1181 01:07:17,288 --> 01:07:18,568 - Him Jake. - That's Gary. 1182 01:07:18,609 --> 01:07:19,609 Maybe we'll get to see you, Jake. 1183 01:07:19,648 --> 01:07:20,808 He's really mad. 1184 01:07:20,808 --> 01:07:23,408 Hi, Jake, how're you doing? 1185 01:07:23,409 --> 01:07:27,129 - Say hello to Jake. - Jake. How are you? 1186 01:07:27,129 --> 01:07:28,889 You can go around trying to please everyone 1187 01:07:28,930 --> 01:07:31,210 as if you're in a popularity contest, 1188 01:07:31,210 --> 01:07:33,490 and yeah, that might get you lots and lots of money, 1189 01:07:33,490 --> 01:07:35,810 but that's not necessarily going to be keeping the contract 1190 01:07:35,810 --> 01:07:37,010 that you made with yourself. 1191 01:07:44,251 --> 01:07:45,691 That was the last one, wasn't it? 1192 01:07:45,691 --> 01:07:47,251 That was the very last one. 1193 01:07:47,250 --> 01:07:49,490 Okay, can we go on from a bit before? 1194 01:07:49,531 --> 01:07:52,251 - Yes. - - I didn't want to fall into that trap then 1195 01:07:52,292 --> 01:07:54,652 of you know, the follow up album to the number one, single. 1196 01:07:54,652 --> 01:07:56,692 And so I was kind of buying myself some time really, 1197 01:07:56,692 --> 01:07:58,492 creatively speaking. 1198 01:07:58,492 --> 01:08:00,132 Because you've had that hit record, 1199 01:08:00,172 --> 01:08:01,972 all of a sudden you could go in there 1200 01:08:01,972 --> 01:08:03,492 and tell them you want to make a record of farts, 1201 01:08:03,492 --> 01:08:04,492 and they'll say, "Yeah, sure. Okay." 1202 01:08:09,732 --> 01:08:12,412 Let's listen back and make sure we love this arrangement. 1203 01:08:12,413 --> 01:08:15,733 - Okay? - - I think there's a huge pressure from labels 1204 01:08:15,733 --> 01:08:18,493 when an artist has a worldwide number one. 1205 01:08:18,494 --> 01:08:21,494 And I think with the, "Am I Not Your Girl" album, 1206 01:08:21,534 --> 01:08:25,054 this was a great antidote, really to what happened. 1207 01:08:25,094 --> 01:08:29,934 And it had the most amazing team of arrangers, musicians, 1208 01:08:29,934 --> 01:08:33,134 and of course, legendary Phil Ramone producing. 1209 01:08:33,134 --> 01:08:36,134 It was just such a joy that record. 1210 01:08:51,056 --> 01:08:54,536 We used to go out walking 1211 01:08:54,537 --> 01:08:57,977 Hand in hand 1212 01:08:57,977 --> 01:09:01,657 You told me all The big things 1213 01:09:01,697 --> 01:09:04,737 You had planned... 1214 01:09:04,738 --> 01:09:06,338 I did love the record, and I loved making it. 1215 01:09:06,377 --> 01:09:08,497 It was just astonishing being in a room 1216 01:09:08,497 --> 01:09:10,217 with that band every day. It was just like, "Oh, my God." 1217 01:09:10,217 --> 01:09:11,777 I was quite intimidated actually. 1218 01:09:11,778 --> 01:09:13,698 I was quite scared to open my mouth 1219 01:09:13,697 --> 01:09:15,537 because the band were just so ridiculously brilliant 1220 01:09:15,578 --> 01:09:18,898 and I couldn't see myself as being anyway good. 1221 01:09:18,898 --> 01:09:22,378 Am I not your girl? 1222 01:09:22,419 --> 01:09:25,899 Am I not your girl? 1223 01:09:25,899 --> 01:09:28,739 Am I not your girl? 1224 01:09:28,739 --> 01:09:31,059 Am I not. 1225 01:09:36,899 --> 01:09:39,339 There were things going on in my own life. 1226 01:09:39,340 --> 01:09:41,140 Things I was discovering that my mother had done 1227 01:09:41,140 --> 01:09:43,260 that I didn't know about. 1228 01:09:43,260 --> 01:09:47,220 And then I had come across an article about families 1229 01:09:47,220 --> 01:09:49,540 who had been trying to lodge complaints 1230 01:09:49,541 --> 01:09:51,941 against the church for sexual abuse 1231 01:09:51,940 --> 01:09:54,180 and were being silenced. 1232 01:09:56,741 --> 01:10:00,861 Basically fucking everything I had been raised to believe was a lie. 1233 01:10:00,862 --> 01:10:03,702 You know, that everything about the Catholic church was a lie. 1234 01:10:05,542 --> 01:10:10,902 Ave, ave, ave Maria 1235 01:10:10,943 --> 01:10:13,583 At the end of the line of bishops, walked the Pope. 1236 01:10:13,582 --> 01:10:16,622 And as the crowd noticed him, they broke into cheering and clapping. 1237 01:10:19,942 --> 01:10:22,782 I took two things out of my mother's house. 1238 01:10:22,783 --> 01:10:24,303 One was her cookery book, 1239 01:10:24,344 --> 01:10:26,384 and the next was a picture of the Pope, 1240 01:10:26,423 --> 01:10:29,023 which had been on her bedroom wall. 1241 01:10:29,064 --> 01:10:31,344 Young people of Ireland, 1242 01:10:32,624 --> 01:10:33,944 I love you. 1243 01:10:38,224 --> 01:10:40,584 He didn't fucking love me. 1244 01:10:40,584 --> 01:10:42,904 And I could fuckin' cry right now saying it. 1245 01:10:44,185 --> 01:10:46,025 You know, it was such a lie. 1246 01:10:46,025 --> 01:10:48,105 Now we know what a lie that was. 1247 01:10:48,106 --> 01:10:50,186 He was so involved in covering up 1248 01:10:50,185 --> 01:10:52,985 what happened to everybody. 1249 01:10:53,026 --> 01:10:55,066 And I had a right to fight that evil 1250 01:10:55,106 --> 01:10:57,226 because I loved the church. 1251 01:10:57,225 --> 01:10:58,945 I'm going to go on Saturday Night Live 1252 01:10:58,986 --> 01:11:00,586 and I've got fuck all to lose 1253 01:11:00,585 --> 01:11:02,065 because no one could do jack shit to me 1254 01:11:02,106 --> 01:11:03,666 that hasn't been done already. 1255 01:11:16,547 --> 01:11:18,387 I had booked her on Saturday Night Live. 1256 01:11:18,388 --> 01:11:20,348 Now this was for her third record, 1257 01:11:20,387 --> 01:11:24,187 which was, "Am I Not Your Girl." 1258 01:11:24,188 --> 01:11:27,148 It's a great booking, the record was just coming out, 1259 01:11:27,188 --> 01:11:30,028 and this would really help it. 1260 01:11:30,028 --> 01:11:32,148 Ladies and gentlemen, Sin�ad O'Connor. 1261 01:11:41,629 --> 01:11:45,389 Until the philosophy 1262 01:11:45,389 --> 01:11:48,749 Which holds one Race superior 1263 01:11:48,750 --> 01:11:52,510 And another 1264 01:11:52,510 --> 01:11:55,390 Inferior 1265 01:11:55,391 --> 01:11:58,151 Is finally 1266 01:11:58,151 --> 01:12:01,151 And permanently 1267 01:12:01,152 --> 01:12:03,192 Discredited... 1268 01:12:03,190 --> 01:12:05,230 The song is also very important. 1269 01:12:05,231 --> 01:12:07,271 You know, it's a Rastafari song. 1270 01:12:10,271 --> 01:12:12,231 It's a speech that the Emperor Haile Selassie 1271 01:12:12,272 --> 01:12:14,952 had made at the United Nations, and then Bob Marley 1272 01:12:14,992 --> 01:12:17,192 turned it into a song. 1273 01:12:17,193 --> 01:12:21,113 First class and second class Citizens of any nation 1274 01:12:21,113 --> 01:12:24,153 Until the colour Of a man's skin 1275 01:12:24,154 --> 01:12:27,074 Is of no more significance 1276 01:12:27,112 --> 01:12:29,032 Than the colour of his eyes 1277 01:12:29,073 --> 01:12:30,993 I've got to say war... 1278 01:12:30,993 --> 01:12:32,513 ...war 1279 01:12:32,513 --> 01:12:35,953 War in the east 1280 01:12:35,953 --> 01:12:39,193 War in the west 1281 01:12:39,194 --> 01:12:42,314 War up north 1282 01:12:42,314 --> 01:12:45,474 War down south 1283 01:12:45,475 --> 01:12:48,355 There's war 1284 01:12:48,394 --> 01:12:51,914 And rumours of war 1285 01:12:51,915 --> 01:12:54,395 Until that day 1286 01:12:54,395 --> 01:13:00,195 There is no continent Which will know peace 1287 01:13:00,235 --> 01:13:05,715 Children, children 1288 01:13:05,716 --> 01:13:07,716 Fight 1289 01:13:07,757 --> 01:13:11,117 We find it necessary 1290 01:13:11,116 --> 01:13:14,396 We know we will win 1291 01:13:14,437 --> 01:13:17,317 We have confidence 1292 01:13:17,317 --> 01:13:19,997 In the victory 1293 01:13:19,997 --> 01:13:22,917 Of good 1294 01:13:22,917 --> 01:13:28,077 Over evil 1295 01:13:31,358 --> 01:13:32,958 Fight the real enemy. 1296 01:13:39,958 --> 01:13:42,998 Nobody knows what to do. 1297 01:13:42,999 --> 01:13:46,199 My blood has run cold. 1298 01:13:46,239 --> 01:13:48,759 She blows a candle out, she goes off stage, 1299 01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:51,360 she goes into her dressing room and she's so happy. 1300 01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:53,480 You know, she had pulled this off. 1301 01:13:53,519 --> 01:13:56,559 And I had gone into the dressing room after her, 1302 01:13:56,599 --> 01:13:59,559 and I said, "You know, I can't get you out of this." 1303 01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:02,000 - And she said, "You know what? - I don't want you to." 1304 01:14:04,801 --> 01:14:06,641 What effect do you think 1305 01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:07,960 this is gonna have on your career, Sin�ad? 1306 01:14:09,161 --> 01:14:11,321 I don't know. 1307 01:14:11,322 --> 01:14:13,282 Do you care? 1308 01:14:13,281 --> 01:14:16,921 Um, well, it depends on what you mean by... 1309 01:14:16,921 --> 01:14:19,481 - I don't know. - You'd have to say what you meant. 1310 01:14:19,521 --> 01:14:22,321 Do you think what you have done 1311 01:14:22,322 --> 01:14:24,722 will make you more popular with your fans? 1312 01:14:24,722 --> 01:14:26,482 Less popular with your fans? 1313 01:14:26,482 --> 01:14:30,722 Or will it just be something that Sin�ad O'Connor did 1314 01:14:30,723 --> 01:14:31,963 in a rash moment? 1315 01:14:33,403 --> 01:14:35,723 - Well, I can't really say. - I don't know. 1316 01:14:35,723 --> 01:14:39,163 Are you prepared to accept the consequences, 1317 01:14:39,203 --> 01:14:42,283 which you said don't seem to be negative, right? 1318 01:14:42,283 --> 01:14:43,763 Of what you're doing? 1319 01:14:43,764 --> 01:14:45,204 What consequences? 1320 01:14:45,204 --> 01:14:47,964 Well, look at the alternative. 1321 01:14:48,004 --> 01:14:50,804 Sin�ad O'Connor is no stranger to controversy. 1322 01:14:50,805 --> 01:14:53,205 A master of the shock tactics. 1323 01:14:53,204 --> 01:14:55,484 But this time some are questioning whether she went too far. 1324 01:14:55,485 --> 01:14:57,005 No response yet from the Pope, 1325 01:14:57,006 --> 01:14:59,006 but church spokesmen say that he will no doubt 1326 01:14:59,004 --> 01:15:01,484 forgive Sin�ad O'Connor for her bout of Vatican bashing 1327 01:15:01,485 --> 01:15:03,525 on NBC's Saturday Night Live. 1328 01:15:03,524 --> 01:15:05,244 The controversy for singer Sin�ad O'Connor 1329 01:15:05,245 --> 01:15:07,325 as she strikes a sour note with Catholics. 1330 01:15:07,326 --> 01:15:09,326 NBC has been at pains to stress 1331 01:15:09,325 --> 01:15:11,725 it doesn't condone what she did. 1332 01:15:11,766 --> 01:15:13,726 The network says O'Connor's tirade caught them off guard. 1333 01:15:13,767 --> 01:15:15,967 NBC logged a thousand complaint calls... 1334 01:15:15,966 --> 01:15:18,886 Her actions Saturday night were spontaneous, 1335 01:15:18,927 --> 01:15:21,247 certainly unauthorized by NBC, 1336 01:15:21,286 --> 01:15:24,166 and NBC was offended by what she did. 1337 01:15:24,207 --> 01:15:26,927 The Catholic league for religious and civil rights 1338 01:15:26,927 --> 01:15:30,207 is pressuring record stores to stop selling recordings 1339 01:15:30,207 --> 01:15:32,487 by O'Connor and her record company. 1340 01:15:32,527 --> 01:15:35,407 During the lunch hour, they passed out leaflets, 1341 01:15:35,408 --> 01:15:37,888 urging customers to join their boycott. 1342 01:15:37,888 --> 01:15:40,208 Some didn't need any encouragement. 1343 01:15:40,208 --> 01:15:42,208 I thought it was repulsive. 1344 01:15:42,209 --> 01:15:45,329 Anyone that sends us in their tapes, 1345 01:15:45,328 --> 01:15:47,088 we're going to chop up these tapes. 1346 01:15:47,129 --> 01:15:49,169 Actually, we were just going to send them to her. 1347 01:15:49,208 --> 01:15:51,488 Someone said, don't send the tapes new. 1348 01:15:51,529 --> 01:15:54,289 Break them up, 'cause she'll sell them again. 1349 01:15:54,289 --> 01:15:55,769 So we're going to break them up 1350 01:15:55,769 --> 01:15:57,369 and put them in a trunk, 1351 01:15:57,370 --> 01:15:59,010 and have someone deliver them to her 1352 01:15:59,010 --> 01:16:00,450 in Ireland or wherever she may be. 1353 01:16:03,891 --> 01:16:06,291 I would've grabbed her by her eyebrows. 1354 01:16:08,050 --> 01:16:10,530 Sin�ad O'Connor..., you know and so on. 1355 01:16:10,571 --> 01:16:12,371 Or you just don't like that she tore up a picture of the Pope. 1356 01:16:12,370 --> 01:16:14,570 Oh, no, Sin�ad O'Connor is completely a robot brain. 1357 01:16:14,571 --> 01:16:16,651 - She has messages... - She's like Victorian, 1358 01:16:16,650 --> 01:16:19,650 she has messages where she slaps onto art like labels. 1359 01:16:19,691 --> 01:16:21,251 But I'll tell you one thing, she was very lucky 1360 01:16:21,292 --> 01:16:23,452 it wasn't my show. 1361 01:16:23,451 --> 01:16:26,691 'Cause if it was my show, I would've gave her such a smack. 1362 01:16:30,972 --> 01:16:32,732 Sin�ad O'Conner, who's big theme is child abuse... 1363 01:16:32,772 --> 01:16:34,572 - All right? - It all comes from child abuse. 1364 01:16:34,572 --> 01:16:36,572 In the case of Sin�ad O'Conner, child abuse was justified. 1365 01:16:41,293 --> 01:16:43,893 I got a little bit worried, 1366 01:16:43,894 --> 01:16:46,894 you know when things were going really badly in the press for her. 1367 01:16:46,934 --> 01:16:50,214 It was a terrible time for us. 1368 01:16:50,214 --> 01:16:52,014 And just created this hatred. 1369 01:16:52,013 --> 01:16:54,333 It was unbelievable. 1370 01:16:54,374 --> 01:16:57,694 I had fan letters with death threats to myself, 1371 01:16:57,734 --> 01:16:59,414 death threats to Sin�ad, 1372 01:16:59,414 --> 01:17:01,974 and one day I took in a sack load of letters 1373 01:17:01,974 --> 01:17:04,054 that were directly threatening either to her 1374 01:17:04,095 --> 01:17:07,055 or to me, or any of our team. 1375 01:17:07,056 --> 01:17:10,256 I was watching it with some friends as it happened. 1376 01:17:10,296 --> 01:17:13,776 And we were all applauding and cheering and were like, 1377 01:17:13,775 --> 01:17:15,855 "Feminist performance art, on TV. 1378 01:17:15,855 --> 01:17:18,895 When does that ever happen?" 1379 01:17:18,895 --> 01:17:22,095 I can't sit here and tell you that I was all like, 1380 01:17:22,136 --> 01:17:23,856 - "- Oh, no, Sin�ad O'Connor is an icon. - She's ahead of her time." 1381 01:17:23,857 --> 01:17:26,337 I don't think I was saying that then. 1382 01:17:26,376 --> 01:17:29,256 I think I probably was joining in, "Oh, God, what's she doing now?" 1383 01:17:29,257 --> 01:17:31,337 There was this idea that she was a bit of a joke. 1384 01:17:32,657 --> 01:17:34,697 Fight the real enemy. 1385 01:17:34,697 --> 01:17:37,257 When she does a concert in New York city, 1386 01:17:37,257 --> 01:17:39,457 if she has the guts to ever do a concert 1387 01:17:39,457 --> 01:17:41,137 in New York City again, 1388 01:17:41,138 --> 01:17:42,658 after one of her songs, 1389 01:17:42,657 --> 01:17:44,777 I'm going to jump up on stage 1390 01:17:44,818 --> 01:17:47,098 and tear up a photo of Uncle Fester. 1391 01:17:56,498 --> 01:17:58,818 Do you enjoy shocking people? 1392 01:17:58,818 --> 01:18:00,978 No, but I enjoy a good debate. 1393 01:18:00,979 --> 01:18:03,179 Did you realize the consequences at the time? 1394 01:18:03,179 --> 01:18:08,539 I don't think it's a good idea to talk about it here, tonight. 1395 01:18:08,540 --> 01:18:10,940 So you don't want to talk about it at all. 1396 01:18:10,980 --> 01:18:12,620 Some other time, I'll talk to you about it. 1397 01:18:12,660 --> 01:18:14,260 But obviously you don't have any regrets. 1398 01:18:14,261 --> 01:18:15,581 No, absolutely not. 1399 01:18:17,660 --> 01:18:20,660 I'm real proud... 1400 01:18:20,661 --> 01:18:23,181 to introduce this next artist 1401 01:18:23,180 --> 01:18:27,340 whose name's become synonymous with courage, 1402 01:18:27,381 --> 01:18:29,741 and integrity. 1403 01:18:29,741 --> 01:18:32,341 Ladies and gentleman, Sin�ad O'Connor. 1404 01:18:53,384 --> 01:18:54,464 Thank you. 1405 01:18:58,824 --> 01:19:01,384 I'm on stage and the audience start making this 1406 01:19:01,383 --> 01:19:02,943 mad noise where half of them are booing 1407 01:19:02,983 --> 01:19:04,503 and half of them are cheering. 1408 01:19:04,544 --> 01:19:06,584 And it's the fucking weirdest noise 1409 01:19:06,624 --> 01:19:08,264 - I've ever heard in my life. - And it makes me want to puke. 1410 01:19:24,345 --> 01:19:26,745 My song that I was supposed to sing 1411 01:19:26,746 --> 01:19:29,546 at Madison Square Garden was "I Believe in You." 1412 01:19:29,545 --> 01:19:32,505 This song was to be sung in a whisper, 1413 01:19:32,506 --> 01:19:33,946 and I knew that I couldn't 1414 01:19:33,947 --> 01:19:35,947 because I wouldn't be heard, 1415 01:19:35,946 --> 01:19:37,626 I would have been drowned out and I couldn't have that. 1416 01:19:40,067 --> 01:19:42,907 "Are you going to stand by me" 1417 01:19:42,907 --> 01:19:45,067 was almost what I felt God was saying to me. 1418 01:19:45,068 --> 01:19:47,068 "Are you going to fucking stand by me, 1419 01:19:47,067 --> 01:19:48,547 or are you going to pussy out here 1420 01:19:48,547 --> 01:19:49,707 and walk off stage." 1421 01:19:55,268 --> 01:19:57,868 Okay, turn this up. 1422 01:19:57,908 --> 01:20:00,988 Until the philosophy 1423 01:20:00,989 --> 01:20:03,669 Which holds one Race superior 1424 01:20:03,709 --> 01:20:07,909 And another inferior 1425 01:20:07,949 --> 01:20:09,949 Is finally 1426 01:20:09,949 --> 01:20:14,429 And permanently discredited 1427 01:20:14,429 --> 01:20:16,469 And abandoned 1428 01:20:16,509 --> 01:20:20,349 Everywhere is war 1429 01:20:20,350 --> 01:20:23,510 Until there's no longer 1430 01:20:23,511 --> 01:20:27,231 First class or Second class citizens 1431 01:20:27,231 --> 01:20:29,431 Of any nation 1432 01:20:29,430 --> 01:20:32,550 Until the colour Of a man's skin 1433 01:20:32,550 --> 01:20:35,990 Is of no more significance 1434 01:20:36,031 --> 01:20:37,991 Than the colour of his eyes 1435 01:20:37,991 --> 01:20:40,511 I've got to say war 1436 01:20:40,552 --> 01:20:44,312 Until, the basic Human rights 1437 01:20:44,352 --> 01:20:47,152 Are equally Guaranteed to all 1438 01:20:47,193 --> 01:20:49,593 Without regard to race 1439 01:20:49,632 --> 01:20:51,832 I say war 1440 01:20:51,872 --> 01:20:53,632 And until 1441 01:20:53,632 --> 01:20:56,752 The ignoble And unhappy regime 1442 01:20:56,753 --> 01:20:59,113 Which holds all Of us through 1443 01:20:59,153 --> 01:21:02,153 Child abuse, yeah 1444 01:21:02,153 --> 01:21:04,713 Child abuse, yeah 1445 01:21:04,714 --> 01:21:07,994 Subhuman bondage 1446 01:21:07,994 --> 01:21:10,074 Has been toppled 1447 01:21:10,115 --> 01:21:12,555 Utterly destroyed 1448 01:21:12,554 --> 01:21:15,994 Everywhere is war 1449 01:21:24,155 --> 01:21:27,075 Everything kind of coalesced into that moment. 1450 01:21:27,116 --> 01:21:28,716 Someone who grew up in a household 1451 01:21:28,755 --> 01:21:30,915 of abuse and rejection, 1452 01:21:30,916 --> 01:21:32,916 then being rejected, 1453 01:21:32,956 --> 01:21:35,796 by what probably felt like the whole entire world, 1454 01:21:35,795 --> 01:21:40,155 re-traumatizing her in front of the world, 1455 01:21:40,156 --> 01:21:42,836 it made me feel demoralized, as a woman. 1456 01:21:44,477 --> 01:21:46,157 People that would boo Sin�ad O'Connor, 1457 01:21:46,196 --> 01:21:49,876 what were they doing at a Bob Dylan concert? 1458 01:21:49,878 --> 01:21:52,198 She's taken quite a beating, in the world, 1459 01:21:52,197 --> 01:21:54,397 because, the world does not take kindly, 1460 01:21:54,398 --> 01:21:57,638 to having its program interrupted. 1461 01:21:57,637 --> 01:22:00,237 The smooth flow of entertainment must not be interrupted. 1462 01:22:05,438 --> 01:22:06,838 "My name is Sin�ad O'Connor, 1463 01:22:06,839 --> 01:22:08,399 and I'm learning to love myself. 1464 01:22:09,638 --> 01:22:11,118 I am deserving, 1465 01:22:11,159 --> 01:22:13,399 I deserve to be treated with respect, 1466 01:22:13,399 --> 01:22:15,599 I deserve not to be treated like dirt, 1467 01:22:15,599 --> 01:22:16,919 I deserve to be listened to. 1468 01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:18,720 My name is Sin�ad O'Connor, 1469 01:22:18,719 --> 01:22:21,719 I am a woman, I have something to offer, 1470 01:22:21,759 --> 01:22:23,399 I am and have always been carrying a lot of grief, 1471 01:22:23,440 --> 01:22:25,720 from my lost childhood, 1472 01:22:25,719 --> 01:22:27,559 and for the effects of its horror and violence on my life. 1473 01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:29,520 I find it hard to be myself, 1474 01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:31,400 to show my feelings. 1475 01:22:31,440 --> 01:22:33,440 To get to the joy, 1476 01:22:33,441 --> 01:22:35,161 I need to release the pain, which is blocking me. 1477 01:22:35,161 --> 01:22:38,521 If I do not do this, I will not survive. 1478 01:22:38,521 --> 01:22:40,961 I was angry before, because I was frightened, 1479 01:22:41,002 --> 01:22:43,482 but I know that if you could really listen, 1480 01:22:43,481 --> 01:22:45,481 you'd see that we do not know what we are doing, 1481 01:22:45,481 --> 01:22:48,161 when we mock the expression of human feeling. 1482 01:22:48,161 --> 01:22:51,001 When we scoff at the sound of our children's keening, 1483 01:22:51,042 --> 01:22:53,282 there's a mirror into which we are not looking. 1484 01:22:57,403 --> 01:22:59,003 There's no way I'm going to shut my mouth, 1485 01:22:59,002 --> 01:23:00,602 I am a battered child, 1486 01:23:00,603 --> 01:23:02,843 and the whole bloody world is gonna know about it, 1487 01:23:02,843 --> 01:23:04,683 the same as they are gonna know about every other battered child. 1488 01:23:04,682 --> 01:23:06,682 They are not going to be able to shut us up, 1489 01:23:06,723 --> 01:23:08,763 just because they don't want to hear about it. 1490 01:23:11,763 --> 01:23:14,403 We all have, mental health issues, 1491 01:23:14,404 --> 01:23:16,364 you know, on one level, 1492 01:23:16,404 --> 01:23:18,324 and it's very important for us to recognize that, 1493 01:23:18,324 --> 01:23:20,564 and I think that's something that Sin�ad O'Connor 1494 01:23:20,565 --> 01:23:22,245 did way before anybody else. 1495 01:23:24,125 --> 01:23:26,365 I was always being crazied by the media, 1496 01:23:26,405 --> 01:23:28,565 made out to be crazy. 1497 01:23:28,564 --> 01:23:31,364 I don't blame anybody, for thinking I was crazy, 1498 01:23:31,365 --> 01:23:33,205 or for hating me for it, or whatever, 1499 01:23:33,205 --> 01:23:35,005 'cause they didn't know, I mean, it was a crazy idea, 1500 01:23:35,005 --> 01:23:36,525 I mean, this bitch is saying that, 1501 01:23:36,526 --> 01:23:37,646 priests are raping children, 1502 01:23:37,646 --> 01:23:39,246 I mean, Jesus Christ, 1503 01:23:39,245 --> 01:23:40,805 of course it seemed crazy to them. 1504 01:23:42,846 --> 01:23:45,326 Sin�ad was put into isolation. 1505 01:23:45,366 --> 01:23:47,286 She, was still making great music, 1506 01:23:47,327 --> 01:23:49,087 still making great records, 1507 01:23:49,085 --> 01:23:51,725 but we didn't hear them and we didn't see them. 1508 01:23:51,766 --> 01:23:54,526 In those days, if the press weren't talking about you, 1509 01:23:54,567 --> 01:23:57,207 if you weren't on the radio, if you weren't on TV screens, 1510 01:23:57,207 --> 01:23:59,327 you might as well have not existed. 1511 01:23:59,367 --> 01:24:00,967 Which is what happened with Sin�ad, 1512 01:24:00,967 --> 01:24:02,367 she just disappears. 1513 01:24:05,288 --> 01:24:07,688 I have about a ten-year period 1514 01:24:07,688 --> 01:24:09,448 I don't remember much, 1515 01:24:09,487 --> 01:24:10,447 because it suddenly became a free for all 1516 01:24:10,488 --> 01:24:12,528 for everybody around me, 1517 01:24:12,527 --> 01:24:16,007 personally and publicly to treat me like shit basically. 1518 01:24:18,768 --> 01:24:20,648 They didn't like what they saw on the mirror, 1519 01:24:20,649 --> 01:24:22,209 I understand that now, 1520 01:24:22,249 --> 01:24:24,009 but when I was younger, I was just hurt. 1521 01:24:31,809 --> 01:24:34,569 The willingness to tell her story, 1522 01:24:34,569 --> 01:24:37,609 to share her personal pain, her struggles, 1523 01:24:37,650 --> 01:24:40,930 to share them, with Ireland and with the world, 1524 01:24:40,930 --> 01:24:44,290 I think has given people, the courage to do the same. 1525 01:24:48,851 --> 01:24:51,011 On behalf of this state, 1526 01:24:51,012 --> 01:24:53,892 the government and our citizens, 1527 01:24:53,931 --> 01:24:57,811 deeply regret, and apologize unreservedly, 1528 01:24:57,811 --> 01:24:59,411 to all those women, 1529 01:24:59,411 --> 01:25:01,411 for the hurt that was done to them, 1530 01:25:01,412 --> 01:25:03,572 for the, any stigma they have suffered, 1531 01:25:03,572 --> 01:25:05,972 as a result of the time they spent, 1532 01:25:05,972 --> 01:25:07,532 in the Magdalene Laundries. 1533 01:25:09,573 --> 01:25:12,573 Today, we live in a very different country, 1534 01:25:12,613 --> 01:25:14,573 with a very different consciousness, 1535 01:25:14,613 --> 01:25:16,213 and a very different awareness. 1536 01:25:20,453 --> 01:25:23,013 An Ireland where we have more compassion, 1537 01:25:23,014 --> 01:25:27,534 more empathy, more insight, more heart. 1538 01:25:27,534 --> 01:25:32,654 We do, because at last, we are learning those terrible lessons. 1539 01:25:32,654 --> 01:25:36,014 We do, because at last we're giving up our secrets. 1540 01:25:41,055 --> 01:25:43,615 In Ireland, it's being called a quiet revolution, 1541 01:25:43,615 --> 01:25:45,215 and a victory for women. 1542 01:25:45,215 --> 01:25:47,535 The once conservative nation, voted yes 1543 01:25:47,576 --> 01:25:50,456 to repeal a constitutional ban on abortion. 1544 01:25:58,737 --> 01:26:00,217 Yeah, I'm proud to be Irish today. 1545 01:26:00,216 --> 01:26:02,296 I think Ireland's coming so far, 1546 01:26:02,296 --> 01:26:04,416 in the last ten years, and I think it's really showing 1547 01:26:04,417 --> 01:26:05,537 that we're not so influenced 1548 01:26:05,536 --> 01:26:07,336 by the church as much anymore. 1549 01:26:10,498 --> 01:26:12,298 Wherever there's that righteous anger 1550 01:26:12,337 --> 01:26:14,457 of a woman now, who is making a difference, 1551 01:26:14,498 --> 01:26:16,498 who's changing things, 1552 01:26:16,538 --> 01:26:18,618 who's standing up and being courageous. 1553 01:26:18,618 --> 01:26:22,098 That is where the little sparks of Sin�ad are. 1554 01:26:28,618 --> 01:26:31,778 We are seeing the rights that people fought for being pulled back, 1555 01:26:31,819 --> 01:26:33,659 being diminished, 1556 01:26:33,659 --> 01:26:36,099 and... to look at the power of speaking out, 1557 01:26:36,100 --> 01:26:39,260 and she is the absolute epitome of what that power is. 1558 01:26:41,340 --> 01:26:43,820 We need to keep showing how effective it is, 1559 01:26:43,820 --> 01:26:45,740 and how important it is. 1560 01:26:52,580 --> 01:26:54,740 Women's bodies are under attack! 1561 01:26:54,741 --> 01:26:56,501 - What do we do? - Stand up, fight back! 1562 01:27:04,902 --> 01:27:06,782 There's a lot of artists that came afterward, 1563 01:27:06,782 --> 01:27:09,542 that were able to say and speak their mind, 1564 01:27:09,542 --> 01:27:10,822 and spill their soul. 1565 01:27:12,902 --> 01:27:15,902 She broke the ice for a whole decade 1566 01:27:15,943 --> 01:27:17,743 or two decades of artists after her. 1567 01:27:36,024 --> 01:27:37,904 A government inquiry last year 1568 01:27:37,904 --> 01:27:39,104 found some Irish bishops 1569 01:27:39,144 --> 01:27:40,944 put their church's reputation 1570 01:27:40,985 --> 01:27:43,105 before the interests of their flock, 1571 01:27:43,105 --> 01:27:46,825 actively covering up clerical child abuse for 30 years. 1572 01:27:46,865 --> 01:27:49,105 But the scandals go far beyond Ireland, 1573 01:27:49,145 --> 01:27:51,145 and touch the Vatican directly. 1574 01:27:51,185 --> 01:27:53,785 Last week, it was alleged that Pope Benedict, 1575 01:27:53,825 --> 01:27:55,625 then known as Cardinal Ratzinger, 1576 01:27:55,665 --> 01:27:57,825 had prevented the church trial, 1577 01:27:57,826 --> 01:28:00,986 of an American paedophile priest, in the 1990s. 1578 01:28:01,026 --> 01:28:04,426 The church in Ireland, must acknowledge before the Lord 1579 01:28:04,466 --> 01:28:07,906 and others, the serious sins committed 1580 01:28:07,947 --> 01:28:10,187 against defenceless children. 1581 01:28:16,107 --> 01:28:19,547 Sin�ad O'Connor as an artist, forged her own path 1582 01:28:19,588 --> 01:28:22,628 in a world that just was not ready for her. 1583 01:28:22,628 --> 01:28:24,508 This young upstart, 1584 01:28:24,508 --> 01:28:26,868 with the most beautiful voice you can imagine, 1585 01:28:26,908 --> 01:28:32,668 showed up, and just rocked the shit out of the horse cart. 1586 01:28:32,709 --> 01:28:34,669 I don't want to see her as a martyr, 1587 01:28:34,708 --> 01:28:36,628 because she's a three-dimensional human being. 1588 01:28:36,629 --> 01:28:39,109 She makes mistakes, she's a weirdo, she's great, 1589 01:28:39,108 --> 01:28:41,868 she's a lot of different things. 1590 01:28:41,869 --> 01:28:43,669 She did not deserve what she got. 1591 01:28:48,710 --> 01:28:52,470 I regret that people treated me like shit, 1592 01:28:52,471 --> 01:28:56,711 and I regret that I was so wounded already 1593 01:28:56,750 --> 01:29:00,430 that that really, really killed me and hurt me. 1594 01:29:00,470 --> 01:29:02,550 You know? 1595 01:29:02,551 --> 01:29:04,791 They all thought that I should be made a mockery of 1596 01:29:04,791 --> 01:29:07,471 for throwing my career down the drain. 1597 01:29:07,471 --> 01:29:09,071 I never set out to be a pop star, 1598 01:29:09,112 --> 01:29:11,072 it didn't suit me being a pop star. 1599 01:29:11,072 --> 01:29:14,112 So I didn't throw away any fucking career that I wanted. 1600 01:29:14,112 --> 01:29:17,392 Didn't change my attitude. 1601 01:29:17,392 --> 01:29:19,312 I wasn't sorry, I didn't regret it, 1602 01:29:19,352 --> 01:29:23,072 it was the proudest thing I've ever done as an artist. 1603 01:29:23,112 --> 01:29:26,832 They broke my heart and they killed me, but I didn't die. 1604 01:29:28,912 --> 01:29:30,592 They tried to bury me, 1605 01:29:30,593 --> 01:29:32,033 they didn't realize I was a seed. 1606 01:29:35,193 --> 01:29:40,033 Thank you for hearing me 1607 01:29:42,033 --> 01:29:46,953 Thank you for hearing me 1608 01:29:48,994 --> 01:29:53,874 Thank you for hearing me 1609 01:29:55,836 --> 01:30:01,196 Thank you for hearing me 1610 01:30:06,956 --> 01:30:12,956 Thank you for loving me 1611 01:30:12,997 --> 01:30:17,877 Thank you for loving me 1612 01:30:19,238 --> 01:30:24,838 Thank you for loving me 1613 01:30:24,877 --> 01:30:30,077 Thank you for loving me 1614 01:30:34,438 --> 01:30:40,198 Which means forsaking me 1615 01:30:40,199 --> 01:30:46,039 Thank you for seeing me 1616 01:30:46,079 --> 01:30:52,079 Thank you for seeing me 1617 01:30:52,079 --> 01:30:57,679 Thank you for seeing me 1618 01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:07,760 And for not leaving me 1619 01:31:07,801 --> 01:31:12,881 And for not leaving me 1620 01:31:14,281 --> 01:31:20,241 And for not leaving me 1621 01:31:20,242 --> 01:31:25,482 And for not leaving me 1622 01:31:29,603 --> 01:31:35,443 Thank you For staying with me 1623 01:31:35,482 --> 01:31:41,882 Thank you For staying with me 1624 01:31:41,923 --> 01:31:47,243 Thank you For staying with me 1625 01:31:47,284 --> 01:31:53,004 Thank you For staying with me 1626 01:31:57,044 --> 01:32:02,804 Thanks for not hurting me 1627 01:32:02,805 --> 01:32:08,285 Thanks for not hurting me 1628 01:32:08,285 --> 01:32:14,245 Thanks for not hurting me 1629 01:32:14,245 --> 01:32:20,045 Thanks for not hurting me 1630 01:32:24,606 --> 01:32:30,526 You are gentle with me 1631 01:32:30,567 --> 01:32:35,407 You are gentle with me 1632 01:32:36,887 --> 01:32:42,927 You are gentle with me 1633 01:32:42,928 --> 01:32:48,408 You are gentle with me 1634 01:32:52,130 --> 01:32:57,930 Thanks for silence with me 1635 01:32:57,929 --> 01:33:03,089 Thanks for silence with me 1636 01:33:04,489 --> 01:33:10,369 Thanks for silence with me 1637 01:33:10,370 --> 01:33:15,690 Thanks for silence with me 1638 01:33:20,251 --> 01:33:26,411 Thank you for holding me 1639 01:33:26,411 --> 01:33:32,771 And saying I could be 1640 01:33:32,772 --> 01:33:38,612 Thank you For saying, "Baby" 1641 01:33:38,652 --> 01:33:43,492 Thank you for holding me 1642 01:33:48,013 --> 01:33:53,653 Thank you for helping me 1643 01:33:53,654 --> 01:33:59,454 Thank you for helping me 1644 01:33:59,495 --> 01:34:05,255 Thank you for helping me 1645 01:34:05,294 --> 01:34:09,054 Thank you 1646 01:34:09,055 --> 01:34:12,655 Thank you for helping me 1647 01:34:15,456 --> 01:34:21,576 Thank you For breaking my heart 1648 01:34:21,576 --> 01:34:27,336 Thank you For tearing me apart 1649 01:34:27,376 --> 01:34:30,736 Now I've a strong 1650 01:34:30,776 --> 01:34:33,776 Strong heart 1651 01:34:33,817 --> 01:34:36,937 Thank you 1652 01:34:36,977 --> 01:34:42,817 For breaking my heart 128700

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