Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:34,193 --> 00:00:37,195
♪♪ [Piano: Ragtime, Medium Tempo]
2
00:02:01,238 --> 00:02:03,740
♪♪ [Continues]
3
00:02:12,291 --> 00:02:14,292
♪♪ [Ends]
4
00:02:20,716 --> 00:02:23,176
[Robert Crumb]
If I don't draw for a while, I get really crazy.
5
00:02:23,260 --> 00:02:27,931
I start feeling really, like,
depressed and suicidal if I don't get to draw.
6
00:02:29,099 --> 00:02:32,393
But then some nights when I'm drawing,
I feel suicidal too, so -
7
00:02:32,478 --> 00:02:34,479
[Terry Zwigoff]
What are you trying to get at in your work?
8
00:02:34,563 --> 00:02:36,481
[Laughing]
Jesus.
9
00:02:38,108 --> 00:02:39,609
I don't know.
10
00:02:41,237 --> 00:02:44,864
I don't work in terms of conscious messages.
I can't do that.
11
00:02:44,949 --> 00:02:48,284
It has to be something that I'm
revealing to myself while I'm doing it...
12
00:02:48,369 --> 00:02:50,286
which is hard to explain.
13
00:02:50,371 --> 00:02:53,623
Which means that while I'm doing it,
I don't know exactly what it's about.
14
00:02:53,707 --> 00:02:57,043
You just have to have the -
the courage or the -
15
00:02:57,127 --> 00:02:58,586
to take that chance, you know.
16
00:02:58,671 --> 00:03:01,756
What's gonna come out?
What's coming out of this?
17
00:03:02,925 --> 00:03:04,842
I enjoy drawing. That's all.
18
00:03:04,927 --> 00:03:08,388
It's a deeply ingrained habit.
It's all because of my brother Charles.
19
00:03:10,891 --> 00:03:14,561
Hello, Mother?
I'm in Philadelphia.
20
00:03:14,645 --> 00:03:20,108
I'm gonna give a talk at the -
at the art school downtown tomorrow.
21
00:03:20,192 --> 00:03:23,736
So Terry and this film crew
are here with me.
22
00:03:23,821 --> 00:03:28,199
So, um, they'd like to come over
and drop me off there...
23
00:03:28,284 --> 00:03:31,911
and talk to - possibly to Charles...
24
00:03:31,996 --> 00:03:35,623
about maybe filming him
if you're not up -
25
00:03:35,708 --> 00:03:37,625
He doesn't wanna do it?
26
00:03:37,710 --> 00:03:39,210
Hmm. Okay.
27
00:03:40,754 --> 00:03:42,797
All right.
28
00:03:42,881 --> 00:03:46,092
That's okay. Doesn't matter.
29
00:03:47,678 --> 00:03:50,805
No, if you don't want him to,
I certainly won't - not gonna -
30
00:03:50,889 --> 00:03:53,349
[Chuckles]
Okay.
31
00:03:53,434 --> 00:03:55,435
All right. Bye.
32
00:03:59,023 --> 00:04:01,608
Well, that's that.
33
00:04:09,658 --> 00:04:11,701
I, uh, start with this one...
34
00:04:11,785 --> 00:04:15,747
because it's most probably the thing
that I'm most well known for in the world.
35
00:04:15,873 --> 00:04:20,877
- And you could see it for a long time
on truck mud flaps.
- [Audience Chuckling]
36
00:04:20,961 --> 00:04:23,463
I don't know why it caught
the popular imagination.
37
00:04:23,547 --> 00:04:27,300
It caused me nothing but headaches
for 10 years after I drew it.
38
00:04:27,384 --> 00:04:30,845
Lawsuits and I.R.S. problems.
It was a nightmare.
39
00:04:30,929 --> 00:04:33,473
Just because of this stupid
"Keep on Truckin'."
40
00:04:33,557 --> 00:04:36,934
So don't anybody ever come to me
and say, "Hey, R. Keep on truckin'."
41
00:04:37,019 --> 00:04:38,478
[Laughter]
42
00:04:38,562 --> 00:04:41,189
This is probably the next thing
I'm most well known for.
43
00:04:41,273 --> 00:04:44,484
I'm just trying to, you know,
hook you into the way I am here.
44
00:04:44,568 --> 00:04:46,486
This sold millions of copies.
45
00:04:46,570 --> 00:04:51,616
I got $600 from CBS Records in 1968.
46
00:04:51,700 --> 00:04:54,577
And they kept my artwork.
They stole my artwork.
47
00:04:54,662 --> 00:04:57,330
Those... bastards.
48
00:04:57,414 --> 00:05:03,086
And I heard recently that the original of this
sold at Sotheby's for $21,000.
49
00:05:06,173 --> 00:05:09,509
This is the third thing
I'm the most well known for...
50
00:05:09,593 --> 00:05:12,845
because this was made into
a major full-length animated cartoon...
51
00:05:12,930 --> 00:05:16,641
which was an embarrassment to me
for the rest of my life.
52
00:05:16,725 --> 00:05:19,018
And I have to say
I had nothing to do with the cartoon.
53
00:05:19,103 --> 00:05:22,855
I didn't want them to do it.
I thought they were schlockmeisters.
54
00:05:22,940 --> 00:05:24,857
And they just rolled right over me.
55
00:05:24,942 --> 00:05:29,153
So I had this character killed
in a later story I did.
56
00:05:29,238 --> 00:05:32,699
I had a female ostrich
stab him in the head with an ice pick.
57
00:05:32,783 --> 00:05:34,867
[Laughter]
58
00:05:36,036 --> 00:05:37,704
[Woman]
When I first met him, he never talked.
59
00:05:37,788 --> 00:05:39,997
He just drew the whole time.
He was, like, catatonic...
60
00:05:40,082 --> 00:05:42,625
and the only voice he had was his pen.
61
00:05:42,710 --> 00:05:45,044
He was very productive,
but he was, like, really -
62
00:05:45,129 --> 00:05:47,130
My mother thought he was retarded
when she met him.
63
00:05:47,214 --> 00:05:49,340
She said, you know,
"Some people like cripples.
64
00:05:49,425 --> 00:05:52,677
Some people like retards." What could I say?
65
00:05:52,761 --> 00:05:55,388
She thought I was a real creep
when she first met me.
66
00:05:55,472 --> 00:05:57,557
But soon as we lived
in one place for a long time -
67
00:05:57,641 --> 00:06:00,309
he's known the same people for a long time -
he's more comfortable.
68
00:06:00,394 --> 00:06:02,311
He's a little bit more communicative.
69
00:06:02,396 --> 00:06:04,814
But still, you know, he clams up.
70
00:06:04,898 --> 00:06:08,568
He really gets stilted in his conversation
around anybody he doesn't know really well.
71
00:06:08,652 --> 00:06:10,945
That's why I'm such
an exciting subject for a movie.
72
00:06:11,029 --> 00:06:12,780
[Aline, Laughing]
Yeah, right.
73
00:06:19,830 --> 00:06:21,289
Watch out with those weights.
74
00:06:21,373 --> 00:06:23,750
Don't hit me with those things.
75
00:06:23,834 --> 00:06:26,377
[Aline] Don't go behind me.
76
00:06:26,462 --> 00:06:28,379
[Aline] These rich rednecks
have moved out here...
77
00:06:28,464 --> 00:06:32,091
and built their dream homes
on top of every single hill.
78
00:06:32,176 --> 00:06:36,262
There used to be nothing over here,
and then these people bought this property -
79
00:06:36,346 --> 00:06:38,639
- Shh. They might hear you.
- and built this house.
80
00:06:38,724 --> 00:06:40,641
- Shh. Not too loud.
- Right above our house.
81
00:06:40,726 --> 00:06:43,644
- [Shushing]
- So that it looks right into Robert's studio.
82
00:06:43,729 --> 00:06:47,482
- Quiet.
- I don't care if they hear me.
83
00:06:47,566 --> 00:06:49,901
Couldn't be any ruder than them
putting their house right above mine.
84
00:06:49,985 --> 00:06:51,986
- Tone down.
- What do I care?
85
00:06:53,405 --> 00:06:56,949
I guess not. Since we're moving to France,
what do you care?
86
00:06:57,034 --> 00:06:59,243
Now they have a plan
to widen this road...
87
00:06:59,328 --> 00:07:01,579
and put it right through
where these trees are.
88
00:07:01,663 --> 00:07:04,290
There was a big "X" here
that the surveyors sprayed on here...
89
00:07:04,374 --> 00:07:06,292
and I erased it the other day.
90
00:07:06,376 --> 00:07:10,171
And I took out their sticks
from the other side of the road over there.
91
00:07:10,255 --> 00:07:15,259
They're gonna widen this road and take a big chunk
of land out of that side with all these trees...
92
00:07:15,344 --> 00:07:17,512
and put 12 dream homes back in there.
93
00:07:17,596 --> 00:07:20,473
Me and Aline decided we would
chain ourselves to these oak trees over here...
94
00:07:20,557 --> 00:07:22,266
if they try and take 'em out.
95
00:07:22,351 --> 00:07:25,645
Look. Our house is so humble.
It's nestled against a hill.
96
00:07:25,729 --> 00:07:27,355
- It's tasteful.
- [Laughing] It's tasteful.
97
00:07:27,439 --> 00:07:30,399
All these other houses are orientated
to look down at our place...
98
00:07:30,484 --> 00:07:34,403
because it's like a backdrop for their
air-conditioned nightmare houses.
99
00:07:34,488 --> 00:07:36,697
[Robert]
Each hilltop can view each other hilltop.
100
00:07:36,782 --> 00:07:38,115
The schmucks.
101
00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,118
[Pen Scratching]
102
00:07:47,209 --> 00:07:50,002
♪♪ [Whistling Through Teeth]
103
00:07:50,087 --> 00:07:55,007
I'm drawing some portraits of girls that I had
crushes on in high school in Milford, Delaware.
104
00:07:55,092 --> 00:07:57,260
This one I'm drawing now is Winona Newhouse...
105
00:07:57,344 --> 00:08:00,471
affectionately known among the boys
as "The Shelf "...
106
00:08:00,556 --> 00:08:03,558
'cause she had this,
like, phenomenal rear shelf.
107
00:08:03,642 --> 00:08:06,018
She was nice, too, actually.
She was kind to me.
108
00:08:06,103 --> 00:08:08,145
[Pages Flipping]
109
00:08:08,230 --> 00:08:11,399
This one here - Naomi Wilson -
is this cross-eyed farm girl...
110
00:08:11,483 --> 00:08:13,359
that wore homemade clothes to school.
111
00:08:13,443 --> 00:08:17,113
I secretly had a crush on her.
I was very sexually attracted to her.
112
00:08:17,197 --> 00:08:20,366
And of course you never dare
admit it openly...
113
00:08:20,450 --> 00:08:24,120
that you liked this funky girl
that had B.O. and hairy legs.
114
00:08:24,204 --> 00:08:25,913
[Chuckling]
115
00:08:25,998 --> 00:08:29,166
And this Jean Strahle - I liked her too.
She was also considered a dork.
116
00:08:29,251 --> 00:08:32,378
I remember she was kind of a bookwormy type
that talked with a lisp.
117
00:08:32,462 --> 00:08:34,297
Shapely, powerful legs.
118
00:08:34,381 --> 00:08:36,424
I never actually had any contact
with these girls...
119
00:08:36,508 --> 00:08:39,385
except I used to play footsie with this one.
120
00:08:39,469 --> 00:08:42,388
Ah, where are they now?
121
00:08:42,472 --> 00:08:44,682
It was 30 years ago. Thirty years ago.
122
00:08:44,766 --> 00:08:48,269
They're all middle-aged housewives now.
Jesus, what a thought.
123
00:08:50,022 --> 00:08:51,939
Winona.
124
00:08:52,024 --> 00:08:55,610
I wish she was here now -
the 17-year-old Winona -
125
00:08:55,694 --> 00:08:58,446
instead of this film crew.
126
00:09:07,664 --> 00:09:09,749
When I listen to old music,
it's one of the few times...
127
00:09:09,833 --> 00:09:13,210
when I actually have
a kind of a love for humanity.
128
00:09:13,295 --> 00:09:17,298
You hear the best part of the soul
of the common people, you know.
129
00:09:17,382 --> 00:09:23,220
It's their way of expressing their connection
to eternity or whatever you want to call it.
130
00:09:23,305 --> 00:09:25,306
Modern music doesn't have that.
131
00:09:25,390 --> 00:09:29,644
It's a calamitous loss that people can't
express themselves that way anymore.
132
00:09:30,979 --> 00:09:33,064
[Record Scratching]
133
00:09:33,148 --> 00:09:36,525
♪♪ [Acoustic Guitar: Blues]
134
00:09:59,049 --> 00:10:02,551
[Woman]
♪ The last kind word ♪
135
00:10:02,636 --> 00:10:06,973
♪ I heard my daddy say ♪
136
00:10:07,057 --> 00:10:13,437
♪ Lord, the last kind word
I heard my daddy say♪
137
00:10:16,608 --> 00:10:19,944
♪ I went to the depot ♪
138
00:10:20,028 --> 00:10:24,240
♪ I looked up at the stars ♪
139
00:10:24,324 --> 00:10:27,618
♪ Cried, some train don't come ♪
140
00:10:27,703 --> 00:10:30,496
♪ There'll be some walking done ♪
141
00:10:33,542 --> 00:10:36,961
♪ My mama told me ♪
142
00:10:37,045 --> 00:10:41,048
♪ Just before she died ♪
143
00:10:41,133 --> 00:10:45,219
♪ Lord, precious daughter♪
144
00:10:45,303 --> 00:10:47,346
♪ Don't you be so wild ♪
145
00:10:50,350 --> 00:10:53,728
♪ When you see me comin' ♪
146
00:10:53,812 --> 00:10:57,982
♪ Look 'cross the rich man's field ♪
147
00:10:58,066 --> 00:11:01,444
♪ If I don't bring you flour♪
148
00:11:01,528 --> 00:11:04,280
♪ I'll bring you bolted meal ♪
149
00:11:24,468 --> 00:11:27,636
♪ What you do to me, baby ♪
150
00:11:27,721 --> 00:11:31,849
♪ It never gets out of me ♪
151
00:11:31,933 --> 00:11:35,144
♪ I may not see you ♪
152
00:11:35,228 --> 00:11:38,105
♪ After I cross the deep-blue sea ♪
153
00:11:41,485 --> 00:11:43,986
♪♪ [Guitar Continues]
154
00:11:54,414 --> 00:11:55,748
♪♪ [Ends]
155
00:11:57,167 --> 00:12:00,586
[Robert] So I guess, late 1948,
when I was about five years old...
156
00:12:00,670 --> 00:12:02,963
we moved to this section of Philadelphia.
157
00:12:03,048 --> 00:12:06,050
This is this project
that we lived in right here.
158
00:12:06,134 --> 00:12:09,595
I can't remember which of these places we lived in.
They all look the same.
159
00:12:10,722 --> 00:12:12,765
Jesus. It's grim here.
160
00:12:12,849 --> 00:12:16,268
Oh, my God. This is where
we used to go to the market right here.
161
00:12:16,353 --> 00:12:19,105
There was a little dime store
that sold toys there.
162
00:12:19,189 --> 00:12:23,609
We used to buy candy and stuff in there.
And comic books.
163
00:12:23,693 --> 00:12:28,280
Also, we - just the three brothers,
me and Charles and Maxon -
hung around together a lot.
164
00:12:28,365 --> 00:12:33,327
We used to rummage around
this dump sometimes looking for stuff.
165
00:12:33,411 --> 00:12:36,789
One time, my brother Charles
brought this thing back from the dump.
166
00:12:36,873 --> 00:12:41,293
It was this beautiful wooden truck -
like an ice cream truck made out of wood.
167
00:12:41,378 --> 00:12:44,421
I wanted that thing really bad,
and he wouldn't let me touch it or anything.
168
00:12:44,506 --> 00:12:46,674
He was real spiteful that way.
[Chuckles]
169
00:12:46,758 --> 00:12:48,717
So I made a big fuss,
and I told my mother.
170
00:12:48,802 --> 00:12:51,345
She said, "Charles, let him play with that
when you're through."
171
00:12:51,429 --> 00:12:53,139
Then he said, "Okay."
172
00:12:53,223 --> 00:12:55,141
So about 15 minutes later,
he came in the house and said...
173
00:12:55,225 --> 00:12:57,852
"Okay, Robert, I'm through with it.
You can play with it now."
174
00:12:57,936 --> 00:13:02,439
So I ran outside, and he had smashed it
to smithereens against the wall of the house.
175
00:13:18,540 --> 00:13:20,749
[Robert]
So, Charles, you read any good books lately?
176
00:13:20,834 --> 00:13:22,793
[Laughing]
177
00:13:22,878 --> 00:13:24,795
I guess I have. I don't know.
178
00:13:26,756 --> 00:13:28,424
You seem to be kind of, like...
179
00:13:28,508 --> 00:13:31,010
recycling a lot of these books you've read.
180
00:13:31,094 --> 00:13:33,804
- What do you mean by recycling?
- Like, you're kind of reading -
181
00:13:33,889 --> 00:13:36,724
I mean, you read 'em all 20 years ago.
Now you're reading them all again.
182
00:13:36,808 --> 00:13:40,311
I'm reading them again, yeah.
183
00:13:40,395 --> 00:13:42,354
I do that because there's nothing else to do.
184
00:13:42,439 --> 00:13:45,733
You've read 'em all.
You ever read anything new?
185
00:13:45,817 --> 00:13:50,112
- I haven't read Kant yet or Hegel.
- Do you have any interest in that kind of stuff?
186
00:13:50,197 --> 00:13:53,449
Maybe I'll eventually get around
to reading them. I don't know.
187
00:13:53,533 --> 00:13:55,993
You read any recent writers?
188
00:13:56,077 --> 00:13:59,371
- Not really, no.
- Not interested in them?
189
00:13:59,456 --> 00:14:02,708
Most of them aren't that good.
Most of them aren't that interesting.
190
00:14:02,792 --> 00:14:06,045
They're not nearly as interesting
as the old Victorian writers...
191
00:14:06,129 --> 00:14:10,424
of the late 19th century.
192
00:14:10,508 --> 00:14:15,679
I always kind of envied your life in a way,
'cause my life has become so hectic and -
193
00:14:15,764 --> 00:14:18,557
Why? Because I was so detached
from the human race?
194
00:14:18,642 --> 00:14:20,559
Is that one of the reasons
why you envy me?
195
00:14:20,644 --> 00:14:22,686
This cloistered environment
with your books and -
196
00:14:22,771 --> 00:14:25,898
Believe me, it's nothing to envy.
[Laughs]
197
00:14:28,401 --> 00:14:31,695
Charles is the one that started
this whole comic thing in the family.
198
00:14:31,780 --> 00:14:34,949
He was completely obsessed with comics
when we were kids...
199
00:14:35,033 --> 00:14:37,618
and had absolutely
no other normal kid interests.
200
00:14:37,702 --> 00:14:41,163
He wasn't interested in toys or games.
He didn't play sports.
201
00:14:41,248 --> 00:14:44,625
He didn't do anything but read comics,
draw comics...
202
00:14:44,709 --> 00:14:46,919
think comics and talk 'em.
203
00:14:47,003 --> 00:14:50,923
I mean, I liked drawing, but I have other
drawing interests besides comics.
204
00:14:51,007 --> 00:14:54,510
I like to draw realistic scenes
and, you know...
205
00:14:54,594 --> 00:14:57,179
just pictures of buildings and cars and stuff.
206
00:14:57,264 --> 00:14:59,598
He wasn't interested in that at all.
It was only the comics.
207
00:14:59,683 --> 00:15:02,893
This is the earliest one
that still exists that I have.
208
00:15:02,978 --> 00:15:05,229
Charles drew this one.
209
00:15:05,313 --> 00:15:08,816
That's supposed to be me, and that's him.
[Laughs]
210
00:15:09,943 --> 00:15:12,778
He made me feel absolutely worthless
if I wasn't drawing comics.
211
00:15:12,862 --> 00:15:16,156
I don't think I would've done that.
I don't think I was as far gone as that.
212
00:15:16,241 --> 00:15:17,950
It was, like, insidious.
213
00:15:18,034 --> 00:15:21,287
Maybe I was just unconsciously
imitating the old man.
214
00:15:21,371 --> 00:15:23,289
[Both Laugh]
215
00:15:23,373 --> 00:15:25,291
[Zwigoff]
What was he like when you were growing up?
216
00:15:25,375 --> 00:15:28,377
What, my father?
He was an overbearing tyrant.
217
00:15:28,461 --> 00:15:30,963
- [Laughs]
- Yes, he was.
218
00:15:31,047 --> 00:15:35,509
Maybe I was unconsciously imitating him
when I forced you to draw comic books.
219
00:15:35,593 --> 00:15:37,803
[Laughs]
220
00:15:37,887 --> 00:15:41,473
There's still a kind of sibling rivalry
going on between me and Robert...
221
00:15:41,558 --> 00:15:44,560
like there was when we were little kids
and he was still living at home.
222
00:15:44,644 --> 00:15:49,315
I think it's - I think, basically, that Robert
and I are still competing with each other.
223
00:15:49,399 --> 00:15:54,403
It's, like, when I'm drawing comics, I still think
of Charles's approval when I'm drawing...
224
00:15:54,487 --> 00:15:56,280
and whether or not he's gonna like 'em.
225
00:15:56,364 --> 00:15:59,158
Charles had everybody drawing comics
in the family.
226
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,828
The Animal Town Publishing Company.
227
00:16:02,912 --> 00:16:05,414
That was a kind of club we had
as little kids...
228
00:16:05,498 --> 00:16:08,083
where we sat around and talked about comics.
229
00:16:08,168 --> 00:16:10,169
I was usually the president...
230
00:16:10,253 --> 00:16:13,005
and Robert was usually the vice president.
231
00:16:13,089 --> 00:16:15,799
Carol was usually the secretary.
232
00:16:15,884 --> 00:16:19,178
And Sandy was the treasurer,
and Maxon was the supply boy.
233
00:16:19,262 --> 00:16:21,263
[Laughs]
234
00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:26,060
And he still resents that.
235
00:16:26,144 --> 00:16:30,397
He still resents the fact that we imposed
the role of supply boy on him.
236
00:16:41,826 --> 00:16:44,036
[Door Buzzes]
237
00:16:49,959 --> 00:16:51,919
Max Crumb in Room 310?
238
00:16:54,255 --> 00:16:58,884
♪♪ [Robert Humming]
239
00:17:03,223 --> 00:17:05,015
Maxon was the scapegoat in the family.
240
00:17:05,100 --> 00:17:06,809
Oh, don't talk about it.
241
00:17:06,893 --> 00:17:08,852
There was five kids...
242
00:17:08,937 --> 00:17:11,397
and he was definitely
on the bottom of the heap.
243
00:17:11,481 --> 00:17:13,899
Well, just to explain
is that we had these meetings...
244
00:17:13,983 --> 00:17:16,693
for this club that Charles
put together called the -
245
00:17:16,778 --> 00:17:19,113
Animal Town Comics Club.
246
00:17:19,197 --> 00:17:21,573
Yeah, it had something to do
with comics and all that stuff.
247
00:17:21,658 --> 00:17:26,829
Everybody had their different job - a secretary
and a president and a vice president.
248
00:17:26,913 --> 00:17:30,749
- I was supply boy.
- [Laughing]
249
00:17:30,834 --> 00:17:34,211
I got it a little more heavy, you know,
direct than Robert did or something.
250
00:17:34,295 --> 00:17:38,173
It was the whole thing.
It was this incredible crazy sibling thing...
251
00:17:38,258 --> 00:17:41,093
between me and Charles and Robert
up in this little room upstairs.
252
00:17:41,177 --> 00:17:43,971
And the whole rest of the world
didn't know what the fuck was going on.
253
00:17:44,055 --> 00:17:48,600
It's like these three primordial monkeys
working it out in the trees.
254
00:17:48,685 --> 00:17:53,105
Me and Maxon slept in the same bed together
until we were 16 or something.
255
00:17:53,189 --> 00:17:56,817
Very intimate, you know, close situation.
256
00:18:02,490 --> 00:18:05,159
[Robert]
Charles was real inspired by the Disney movie...
257
00:18:05,243 --> 00:18:07,744
where Robert Newton plays
Long John Silver.
258
00:18:07,829 --> 00:18:12,291
After we saw it on TV in 1955,
we started playing pirates.
259
00:18:12,375 --> 00:18:15,627
You know, like normal kids do.
We'd go out and pretend -
260
00:18:15,712 --> 00:18:19,047
We made this ship out of
an old refrigerator carton and everything.
261
00:18:20,216 --> 00:18:24,052
Charles would walk around town
dressed up like Long John Silver.
262
00:18:24,137 --> 00:18:27,055
He had this old coat of my mother's,
this long green coat.
263
00:18:27,140 --> 00:18:29,933
And he made himself a three-cornered hat
out of some woman's hat.
264
00:18:30,018 --> 00:18:34,104
He had a crutch, and he'd tie up his leg
and go around town that way.
265
00:18:34,189 --> 00:18:38,942
I didn't realize till years later how fixated
Charles really was on this Treasure Island thing.
266
00:18:39,027 --> 00:18:43,822
This thing dominated our play and our fantasy
for six or seven years after that.
267
00:18:43,907 --> 00:18:46,658
We drew these comics about Treasure Island...
268
00:18:46,743 --> 00:18:49,161
and it became this real baroque,
elaborate thing...
269
00:18:49,245 --> 00:18:52,789
way beyond the original Disney film.
270
00:18:52,874 --> 00:18:55,292
This is one of Charles's.
271
00:18:55,376 --> 00:18:57,211
This is one of our two-man comics...
272
00:18:57,295 --> 00:19:00,422
in which he would draw some of the characters
and I would draw some of them.
273
00:19:00,507 --> 00:19:02,633
We'd have them interact with each other.
274
00:19:02,717 --> 00:19:06,345
That was also a great school
of cartooning for me -
275
00:19:06,429 --> 00:19:10,474
was having to come up with
clever retorts to him.
276
00:19:10,558 --> 00:19:14,019
He was actually much cleverer
and funnier than I was.
277
00:19:14,103 --> 00:19:19,024
It actually got kind of tiresome,
but you had to do it. He was in charge.
278
00:19:19,108 --> 00:19:21,777
I had this very definite,
bad problem about Charles.
279
00:19:21,861 --> 00:19:23,904
Sometimes I think a lot of it
had to do with my -
280
00:19:23,988 --> 00:19:27,199
an overly morbid sensitivity to the guy
or something too.
281
00:19:27,283 --> 00:19:31,078
As well as his natural affinity
to get in there and profit off it.
282
00:19:31,162 --> 00:19:33,372
Robert, of course,
was somewhat of a middleman.
283
00:19:33,456 --> 00:19:36,083
It had this way of, like, restricting...
284
00:19:36,167 --> 00:19:40,003
or causing this terrible self-consciousness
and restriction in me as a kid.
285
00:19:40,088 --> 00:19:42,214
I was morbidly modest about my body.
286
00:19:42,298 --> 00:19:44,216
Sex was, like, completely removed.
287
00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:47,678
When it became time for me
to become sexually aware...
288
00:19:47,762 --> 00:19:51,598
when I was in puberty,
sex was nowhere near my life.
289
00:19:51,683 --> 00:19:53,850
- Just absolutely nothing to do with it.
- [Robert] Repressed.
290
00:19:53,935 --> 00:19:57,980
I was so heavily repressed, naturally
I had a feeling that's why the seizures started.
291
00:19:58,064 --> 00:20:02,192
I have these seizures - A seizure's like
a point where your behavior becomes -
292
00:20:02,277 --> 00:20:06,321
I'd have to get into the whole sex trip
which is an awful involved topic.
293
00:20:06,406 --> 00:20:11,076
That's all I thought about when I was
in my late teens and early 20s - was sex.
294
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,414
And I masturbated
about four or five times a week.
295
00:20:15,498 --> 00:20:17,708
How frequently did you -
I don't masturbate anymore.
296
00:20:17,792 --> 00:20:20,627
My sexual desires are completely dead now.
297
00:20:20,712 --> 00:20:24,047
Like I told you the other night,
I can't even get an erection anymore.
298
00:20:24,132 --> 00:20:27,342
- [Robert] Oh, my God.
- [Laughing]
299
00:20:27,427 --> 00:20:31,680
I don't know whether it's one thing,
or maybe it's a combination of things.
300
00:20:31,764 --> 00:20:35,809
Maybe it's a combination of the medication
and the lack of external stimulation.
301
00:20:35,893 --> 00:20:38,645
And maybe approaching old age, too,
has something to do with it.
302
00:20:38,730 --> 00:20:40,647
All those things probably.
303
00:20:40,732 --> 00:20:44,776
I mean, you need some external stimulation
to keep up your interest.
304
00:20:44,861 --> 00:20:46,862
I don't know.
Now that my sexual desires are gone...
305
00:20:46,946 --> 00:20:49,448
I'm not so sure
I want them back again.
306
00:20:51,784 --> 00:20:53,327
[Robert]
My earliest sexual memories?
307
00:20:53,411 --> 00:20:56,121
Well - [Clicks Tongue]
308
00:20:56,205 --> 00:21:01,293
Actually, I remember being,
like, four years old and getting erections -
309
00:21:01,377 --> 00:21:04,713
I think it was my aunt or my mother's sister...
310
00:21:04,797 --> 00:21:08,091
and kind of humping her legs and her shoes
under the table.
311
00:21:08,176 --> 00:21:10,177
I remember going into my mother's closet -
312
00:21:10,261 --> 00:21:13,639
she had these cowboy boots
that she wore when it rained -
313
00:21:13,723 --> 00:21:15,641
and humping those in the closet.
314
00:21:15,725 --> 00:21:17,184
[Laughs]
315
00:21:17,268 --> 00:21:19,645
And singing while I was doing it. Singing -
316
00:21:19,729 --> 00:21:22,564
♪ Jesus loves me
This I know ♪
317
00:21:22,649 --> 00:21:25,108
♪ For the Bible tells me so ♪♪
318
00:21:25,193 --> 00:21:27,194
[Laughing]
319
00:21:28,237 --> 00:21:32,699
When I was about five or six,
I was sexually attracted to Bugs Bunny.
320
00:21:32,784 --> 00:21:38,205
And I cut out this Bugs Bunny off the cover
of a comic book and carried it around with me.
321
00:21:38,289 --> 00:21:42,376
I carried it around in my pocket
and took it out and looked at it periodically.
322
00:21:42,460 --> 00:21:45,671
It got all wrinkled up
from handling it so much...
323
00:21:45,755 --> 00:21:49,883
that I asked my mother to iron it
on the ironing board to flatten it out.
324
00:21:49,967 --> 00:21:52,469
And she did, and I was deeply disappointed...
325
00:21:52,553 --> 00:21:55,764
'cause it got all brown when she ironed it,
and brittle, and it crumbled apart.
326
00:21:57,392 --> 00:21:59,476
- [Zwigoff] What was it about Bugs Bunny
that got you excited?
- I don't know.
327
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,772
I had this sexual attraction
to cute cartoon characters.
328
00:22:03,856 --> 00:22:07,484
[Laughing]
You tell me. I don't know.
329
00:22:07,568 --> 00:22:10,112
♪♪ [Sheena Theme]
330
00:22:10,196 --> 00:22:13,865
That all changed when I turned 12
and I became fixated on Sheena.
331
00:22:13,950 --> 00:22:17,035
[Blowing Horn]
332
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:19,371
Sheena, Queen of the Jungle.
333
00:22:19,455 --> 00:22:22,290
A TV show around, like, '55, '56.
334
00:22:23,626 --> 00:22:27,212
[Blowing Horn]
335
00:22:28,214 --> 00:22:30,549
I became totally obsessed with Sheena.
336
00:22:30,633 --> 00:22:33,969
I went to bed every night thinking about
the things I wanted to do with Sheena.
337
00:22:34,053 --> 00:22:36,555
- [Horn Blows]
- [Monkeys Chattering]
338
00:22:41,144 --> 00:22:44,396
[Charles] Robert was very hung up on sex
when he was a little kid...
339
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,732
even more so than I was.
340
00:22:46,816 --> 00:22:48,817
[Laughing]
I was? Do you think so?
341
00:22:48,901 --> 00:22:53,321
Yeah. I think you were more inhibited
as a child than I was.
342
00:22:53,406 --> 00:22:55,323
Even sexually.
343
00:22:55,408 --> 00:23:01,037
I think you were more afraid of women
than I was, as a young person.
344
00:23:01,122 --> 00:23:03,498
When I was in high school,
I had a few dates with girls.
345
00:23:03,583 --> 00:23:07,836
When you were in high school,
you didn't have any dates at all with anybody.
346
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:09,921
You were actually sort of good-looking
and everything.
347
00:23:10,965 --> 00:23:14,301
[Charles] I was a handsome,
good-looking chap when I was a teenager.
348
00:23:14,385 --> 00:23:17,888
But there was just this something that was
wrong with my personality. I don't know.
349
00:23:17,972 --> 00:23:19,890
[Robert]
The teachers hated him. The kids hated him.
350
00:23:19,974 --> 00:23:24,770
High school was an absolute nightmare.
[Laughs]
351
00:23:24,854 --> 00:23:27,147
I was the most unpopular kid
in the high school.
352
00:23:27,231 --> 00:23:28,899
[Zwigoff]
Why?
353
00:23:28,983 --> 00:23:31,485
People were always picking on me
and beating me up...
354
00:23:31,569 --> 00:23:35,113
and the girls wouldn't have
anything to do with me.
355
00:23:35,198 --> 00:23:37,908
They treated me like I was
the scum of the earth.
356
00:23:39,035 --> 00:23:42,704
[Robert] So, in this strip, I'm talking
all about my problems with women...
357
00:23:42,789 --> 00:23:45,749
starting with high school
where I learned a lot about women.
358
00:23:45,833 --> 00:23:49,085
Because there was this guy named Skutch -
this guy here -
359
00:23:49,170 --> 00:23:53,465
who was, like, the -
kind of this mean bully.
360
00:23:53,549 --> 00:23:57,594
But he was also very charming,
and all the girls liked him.
361
00:23:57,678 --> 00:24:01,973
He was the dreamboat,
but he was also a bully.
362
00:24:02,058 --> 00:24:07,521
And my brother Charles was one of the guys
he singled out for particular attention.
363
00:24:07,605 --> 00:24:13,527
And he had this gang of flunkies that
hung around with him - this guy Skutch.
364
00:24:13,611 --> 00:24:15,904
I just remember this scene where they -
365
00:24:15,988 --> 00:24:19,324
Skutch punches out my brother
in the hallway at school.
366
00:24:19,408 --> 00:24:23,453
That was a very sad sight for me to see.
367
00:24:23,538 --> 00:24:26,581
Charles gave up trying to be popular
or have girlfriends or anything...
368
00:24:26,666 --> 00:24:31,002
after everybody saw that he couldn't
fight back and was beat up by Skutch.
369
00:24:31,087 --> 00:24:33,755
I've been living at home
since I graduated from high school.
370
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,717
I made a few feeble attempts
along the way.
371
00:24:37,802 --> 00:24:41,429
[Robert] In a funny way, you're no worse off
than people that are out there in the world...
372
00:24:41,514 --> 00:24:43,515
that have to deal
with the fuckin' world all the time.
373
00:24:43,599 --> 00:24:47,310
- You gotta take into consideration
the fact that I'm taking tranquilizers.
- That's true.
374
00:24:47,395 --> 00:24:51,189
- And that makes it a lot easier
than it would otherwise be -
- That's true.
375
00:24:51,274 --> 00:24:54,442
by taking these tranquilizers
and antidepressants.
376
00:24:54,527 --> 00:24:56,695
If it wasn't for them,
I'd probably go completely crazy...
377
00:24:56,779 --> 00:24:58,989
living here at home with Mother.
378
00:24:59,073 --> 00:25:00,782
[Both Laughing]
379
00:25:00,867 --> 00:25:03,285
I have to walk on eggs when I'm around her.
380
00:25:03,369 --> 00:25:05,704
- Oh, yeah. You do.
- Yeah.
381
00:25:05,788 --> 00:25:08,164
You can't tell my mother
the absolute truth.
382
00:25:08,249 --> 00:25:10,667
She's in a heavy state of denial
about a lot of things.
383
00:25:10,751 --> 00:25:13,211
I don't think we should be
talking about this.
384
00:25:13,296 --> 00:25:16,047
- [Woman] Where are my kitty cats?
- Also about our mother, she's -
385
00:25:16,132 --> 00:25:19,467
Oh, my God! What's that thing?
I've looked in the house, and they're gone.
386
00:25:19,552 --> 00:25:21,344
She doesn't like you to talk about her -
387
00:25:21,429 --> 00:25:23,138
- Charles!
- What?
388
00:25:23,222 --> 00:25:26,474
- There's a person in the hallway.
- What?
389
00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:29,561
- Fix that thing in the hallway.
- What thing?
390
00:25:29,645 --> 00:25:32,647
- The window.
- What's wrong with it?
391
00:25:32,732 --> 00:25:34,816
[Robert]
It's some film equipment or something.
392
00:25:34,901 --> 00:25:37,402
It's some kind of film equipment, Mother.
393
00:25:37,486 --> 00:25:40,780
- Where are my kitty cats?
- I don't know.
394
00:25:40,865 --> 00:25:42,574
Don't worry about it.
It's all gonna be out of here.
395
00:25:42,658 --> 00:25:45,785
- It'll all be back to normal.
- [Mother Muttering]
396
00:25:45,870 --> 00:25:47,913
[Robert Laughing]
397
00:25:47,997 --> 00:25:49,998
- All the crap goin' on.
- [Robert] Uh-oh.
398
00:25:50,082 --> 00:25:53,335
And here it shows all these girls
talking about how one of their friends...
399
00:25:53,419 --> 00:25:57,088
got a date with Skutch
and how envious they all are.
400
00:25:57,173 --> 00:26:00,383
And this is how I felt about it.
[Laughing]
401
00:26:00,468 --> 00:26:03,094
I'm a little bitter about it
as you can see here.
402
00:26:03,179 --> 00:26:05,764
Then I show here how I thought
that most teenage boys...
403
00:26:05,848 --> 00:26:08,308
are very cruel and aggressive
and everything like that...
404
00:26:08,392 --> 00:26:12,395
and if girls could see that I was more kind
and sensitive, they would like me more.
405
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,357
They're kind of impressed
by the fact that I could draw, but -
406
00:26:15,441 --> 00:26:19,736
I couldn't understand why they liked
these cruel, aggressive guys and not me.
407
00:26:19,820 --> 00:26:22,989
'Cause I was more kind and sensitive
and everything more like them.
408
00:26:23,074 --> 00:26:27,118
I was more like them. I didn't realize that they
didn't want you to be like them, basically.
409
00:26:27,203 --> 00:26:30,455
I felt very hurt
and cruelly misunderstood...
410
00:26:30,539 --> 00:26:32,791
because I considered myself
talented and intelligent.
411
00:26:32,875 --> 00:26:35,835
Yet I was not very attractive physically.
412
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,673
But I didn't think those things really mattered.
It was what's inside that was important.
413
00:26:40,883 --> 00:26:45,220
When I was 13, 14 and trying to be
a normal teenager, I was really a jerk.
414
00:26:45,304 --> 00:26:48,431
I mean, just - I tried to, you know,
act like I thought they were acting.
415
00:26:48,516 --> 00:26:50,642
It just came out all wrong and weird.
416
00:26:50,726 --> 00:26:54,771
So then I just stopped completely
and just became a shadow...
417
00:26:54,855 --> 00:26:56,564
and I wasn't even there.
418
00:26:56,649 --> 00:26:59,317
People weren't even aware
that I was, you know...
419
00:26:59,402 --> 00:27:01,945
in the - in the same world they were in.
420
00:27:02,029 --> 00:27:06,116
And that kind of freed me completely, because
I wasn't under those pressures to be normal.
421
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,159
So I got interested in old-time music...
422
00:27:08,244 --> 00:27:10,829
and went to the black section of town,
knocking on doors...
423
00:27:10,913 --> 00:27:13,623
and looking for old records
and things like that...
424
00:27:13,708 --> 00:27:17,836
that would be unthinkable
if you were gonna be a normal teenager.
425
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,840
Starting about age 17,
I started being driven by that obsession...
426
00:27:21,924 --> 00:27:24,884
that I'll go down in history
as a great artist.
427
00:27:24,969 --> 00:27:26,678
That'll be my revenge.
428
00:27:26,762 --> 00:27:30,515
This is my image celebrating Valentine's Day.
429
00:27:30,599 --> 00:27:33,518
"February 13, 1962.
430
00:27:33,602 --> 00:27:36,938
"I decided to reject conforming
when society rejected me.
431
00:27:37,023 --> 00:27:39,858
"I've heard all that 'be yourself ' stuff.
432
00:27:39,942 --> 00:27:42,569
"When I'm myself, people think I'm nuts.
433
00:27:42,653 --> 00:27:46,656
"Guess I'll have to be satisfied
with cats and old records.
434
00:27:46,741 --> 00:27:49,409
"Girls are just utterly out of my reach.
435
00:27:49,493 --> 00:27:51,411
They won't even let me draw them."
436
00:27:51,495 --> 00:27:54,622
[Laughing]
437
00:27:54,707 --> 00:27:57,584
Yeah, all that changed after I got famous.
438
00:27:57,668 --> 00:27:57,751
[People Chattering]
439
00:27:57,752 --> 00:28:00,670
[People Chattering]
440
00:28:08,846 --> 00:28:11,139
No, I absolutely -
I would love to pose for you.
441
00:28:11,223 --> 00:28:12,891
Oh, excellent. Excellent.
442
00:28:12,975 --> 00:28:15,351
Anytime you wanna come by and visit,
that would be really nice.
443
00:28:15,436 --> 00:28:17,145
Excellent.
444
00:28:17,229 --> 00:28:19,606
I always wanted to see you again, so -
445
00:28:29,033 --> 00:28:32,452
Some of the early Weirdo collages.
446
00:28:33,454 --> 00:28:37,957
And also some publications.
We managed to track them down.
447
00:29:15,871 --> 00:29:18,206
I think Crumb is -
Basically, he's the Brueghel...
448
00:29:18,290 --> 00:29:19,916
of the last half of the 20th century.
449
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,709
There wasn't a Brueghel of the first half...
450
00:29:21,794 --> 00:29:23,378
but there is one of the last half...
451
00:29:23,462 --> 00:29:25,713
and that is Robert Crumb.
452
00:29:25,798 --> 00:29:30,718
Because he gives you
that tremendous kind of impaction...
453
00:29:30,803 --> 00:29:34,806
of lusting, suffering, crazed humanity...
454
00:29:34,890 --> 00:29:38,977
in all sorts of bizarre,
gargoyle-like allegorical forms.
455
00:29:39,061 --> 00:29:42,730
He's just got this very powerful imagination
which goes right over the top a lot of the time.
456
00:29:42,815 --> 00:29:44,816
But it very seldom lies.
457
00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:47,026
To me, he's Mr. Natural.
458
00:29:47,111 --> 00:29:50,738
He accepts women how they really are...
459
00:29:50,823 --> 00:29:53,158
and makes them even more beautiful
than they really -
460
00:29:53,242 --> 00:29:55,160
I mean, like that woman.
461
00:29:55,244 --> 00:30:00,957
I mean, she's really -
She's got energy and form and drive.
462
00:30:01,041 --> 00:30:03,001
These women -
you can't push these women around.
463
00:30:03,085 --> 00:30:04,669
They're not wimps.
464
00:30:04,753 --> 00:30:06,796
He gives power to women.
465
00:30:06,881 --> 00:30:10,049
He made it okay for me to have a butt.
466
00:30:10,134 --> 00:30:13,136
He did a drawing of me,
which I really liked a lot.
467
00:30:13,220 --> 00:30:14,929
It was really me.
468
00:30:15,014 --> 00:30:17,182
It showed my thighs as they really are.
469
00:30:17,266 --> 00:30:18,725
He helped me change my self-image.
470
00:30:18,809 --> 00:30:21,269
I had felt so inadequate before.
471
00:30:21,353 --> 00:30:23,813
It was like I didn't know having a butt -
472
00:30:23,898 --> 00:30:25,857
- Believe me, you're adequate.
- [Laughing]
473
00:30:25,941 --> 00:30:27,442
Oh, you're so adequate.
474
00:30:29,111 --> 00:30:32,322
I feel that Robert's work is one of the...
475
00:30:33,490 --> 00:30:38,203
most pertinent social portraits of an era...
476
00:30:38,287 --> 00:30:41,915
touching issues related to politics...
477
00:30:41,999 --> 00:30:45,418
to sex, to drugs, to religion...
478
00:30:45,502 --> 00:30:48,880
um, to the fine arts.
479
00:30:48,964 --> 00:30:53,593
And I would say that Robert
is the Daumier of our time.
480
00:31:03,479 --> 00:31:05,772
I think he's a very remarkable artist indeed.
481
00:31:05,856 --> 00:31:10,068
The tradition that I see him belonging to
is essentially the one of, you know...
482
00:31:10,152 --> 00:31:13,154
graphic art as social protest,
social criticism...
483
00:31:13,239 --> 00:31:15,573
which, of course, has extremely long roots
and goes back to -
484
00:31:15,658 --> 00:31:17,575
There are elements of Goya in Crumb.
485
00:31:17,660 --> 00:31:21,454
Goya's sense of monstrosity
comes out in those...
486
00:31:21,538 --> 00:31:24,040
menacing bird-headed women
of Crumb's, for instance.
487
00:31:25,626 --> 00:31:29,462
- Robert. In front of all these people?
- In front of all these people.
488
00:31:29,546 --> 00:31:31,756
[Laughing]
Robert!
489
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,758
[Robert]
Down this way. Quick.
490
00:31:43,310 --> 00:31:45,853
[Man]
Looks like the undergrounds are alive and well.
491
00:31:45,938 --> 00:31:47,230
A whole industry sprung up.
492
00:31:47,314 --> 00:31:50,066
They're still reprinting the early ones.
493
00:31:50,150 --> 00:31:51,567
Number two.
494
00:31:51,652 --> 00:31:53,361
Number four.
495
00:31:53,445 --> 00:31:56,197
God only knows how many of those
have been printed by now.
496
00:31:59,910 --> 00:32:02,495
Puke & Explode.
497
00:32:02,579 --> 00:32:05,290
- What's this called?
- It's called Puke & Explode.
498
00:32:05,374 --> 00:32:07,458
- That's new. Who put that out?
- These kids today.
499
00:32:07,543 --> 00:32:09,794
I don't know about these kids today.
500
00:32:09,878 --> 00:32:13,131
So I guess you really started all this.
You created this whole thing.
501
00:32:13,215 --> 00:32:16,134
You're responsible.
502
00:32:16,218 --> 00:32:18,219
I don't like to take credit for that, Don.
503
00:32:18,304 --> 00:32:20,888
Some of this stuff, I know.
Yeah, nobody would, but, um -
504
00:32:20,973 --> 00:32:23,016
[Laughing]
505
00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:25,977
Hey, Robert, I'm a really big fan of yours.
506
00:32:26,061 --> 00:32:29,897
I'm wondering if there's any chance
I can get an autograph from you.
507
00:32:29,982 --> 00:32:33,234
I don't think so.
I don't believe in giving autographs.
508
00:32:35,612 --> 00:32:38,031
Okay, well. Thanks anyway.
509
00:32:40,075 --> 00:32:43,286
Have you, uh -
When are you actually moving?
510
00:32:43,370 --> 00:32:45,621
- Couple months.
- Couple months? Wow.
511
00:32:45,706 --> 00:32:48,499
France isn't, you know, perfect or anything...
512
00:32:48,584 --> 00:32:53,838
but it's just slightly less evil
than the United States, I think.
513
00:32:53,922 --> 00:32:55,923
But that's not why I'm moving, of course.
514
00:32:56,008 --> 00:32:59,093
Talk to my wife
if you want to know why I'm moving.
515
00:32:59,178 --> 00:33:02,305
We do have something here
that we wanted to show you though.
516
00:33:02,389 --> 00:33:04,098
- Oh, yeah?
- Yeah.
517
00:33:04,183 --> 00:33:06,934
From 1967 - rock concert poster.
518
00:33:07,019 --> 00:33:08,770
- Extremely rare item.
- Yeah.
519
00:33:08,854 --> 00:33:11,856
It's my only rock concert poster I ever did.
520
00:33:11,940 --> 00:33:14,609
There's this legend
that I keep hearing all the time.
521
00:33:14,693 --> 00:33:16,194
People telling me, yeah...
522
00:33:16,278 --> 00:33:18,696
"Somebody told me you used to live
with the Grateful Dead...
523
00:33:18,781 --> 00:33:20,782
"down here in the Haight-Ashbury...
524
00:33:20,866 --> 00:33:24,035
and, you know, you hung around
with Jerry Garcia."
525
00:33:24,119 --> 00:33:27,955
I never had anything to do with those guys.
I hated that music.
526
00:33:29,458 --> 00:33:32,210
I went to a couple of those rock concerts
and just fell asleep.
527
00:33:32,294 --> 00:33:35,088
It was completely boring,
that psychedelic music.
528
00:33:35,172 --> 00:33:37,340
- ♪♪ [Drumming]
- [Man Chattering]
529
00:33:37,424 --> 00:33:40,468
I've got something for you.
I wanna tell you a little secret.
530
00:33:40,552 --> 00:33:42,470
It's called Om mani padme hum.
531
00:33:42,554 --> 00:33:45,056
[Continues, Indistinct]
532
00:33:51,980 --> 00:33:55,024
This is where I get recognized more
than any other place in the world...
533
00:33:55,109 --> 00:33:57,110
still, is on Haight Street.
534
00:33:57,194 --> 00:33:59,904
- [Donahue] It's amazing.
- I know. These are my people.
535
00:33:59,988 --> 00:34:02,156
Yeah.
536
00:34:02,241 --> 00:34:03,825
People come up to me and say,
"R. Crumb. Ah!"
537
00:34:03,909 --> 00:34:06,077
Sometimes some guy
will come and sit with me...
538
00:34:06,161 --> 00:34:08,621
and chew my ear off
about all his hopes and dreams.
539
00:34:08,705 --> 00:34:13,000
'Cause usually it's some, like,
broken-down hippie pest guy.
540
00:34:13,085 --> 00:34:16,504
You know. It's never a beautiful,
young 20-year-old girl or nothing.
541
00:34:17,673 --> 00:34:21,300
But it's just so interesting
to come down here and draw people.
542
00:34:21,385 --> 00:34:23,886
That's the main reason I come here,
just to watch people.
543
00:34:28,142 --> 00:34:31,769
This girl was sitting here one day.
Beautiful girl.
544
00:34:31,854 --> 00:34:33,479
And I drew this other girl.
545
00:34:33,564 --> 00:34:36,399
She came up and wanted the drawing,
so I cut it out, gave it to her.
546
00:34:36,483 --> 00:34:39,694
- Ah. Good way to meet girls.
- Right.
547
00:34:39,778 --> 00:34:42,196
I drew this girl,
and she invited me to her house.
548
00:34:42,281 --> 00:34:44,740
- Wow.
- Unfortunately, she wasn't very attractive.
549
00:34:44,825 --> 00:34:46,742
You kept the picture, I see.
550
00:34:46,827 --> 00:34:49,328
[People Chattering Inside]
551
00:34:49,413 --> 00:34:52,665
You know, it's kind of ironic
that you're so identified with the '60s.
552
00:34:52,749 --> 00:34:57,837
But at the time, it didn't seem like you really
fit in with that whole flower child thing.
553
00:34:57,921 --> 00:34:59,630
God knows I tried.
554
00:34:59,715 --> 00:35:04,135
I used to come up here every day
and try and be one of them and -
555
00:35:04,219 --> 00:35:06,804
My main motivation, of course,
was, you know...
556
00:35:06,889 --> 00:35:09,140
to get some of that "free love" action...
557
00:35:09,224 --> 00:35:11,434
but I wasn't too good at it.
558
00:35:11,518 --> 00:35:13,478
People would ask, "Are you a narc"?
559
00:35:13,562 --> 00:35:15,646
They would move away from me
at the love-in.
560
00:35:15,731 --> 00:35:17,815
I looked the same as I do now, basically.
561
00:35:17,900 --> 00:35:22,069
Exactly. You're, in fact - You did have kind
of a costume, but it wasn't the same kind -
562
00:35:22,154 --> 00:35:23,863
It wasn't the right costume.
563
00:35:23,947 --> 00:35:26,657
I remember Janis Joplin
giving me this piece of advice.
564
00:35:26,742 --> 00:35:29,327
She said, "Crumb, what's the matter with you?
Don't you like girls?"
565
00:35:29,411 --> 00:35:31,370
I said, "Of course I like girls.
What do you think?"
566
00:35:31,455 --> 00:35:34,874
She said, "Well, look, just, you know,
let your hair grow long...
567
00:35:34,958 --> 00:35:38,544
"and get one of those satin billowy shirts,
a velvet jacket...
568
00:35:38,629 --> 00:35:40,922
"some bell bottoms and platform shoes.
569
00:35:41,006 --> 00:35:42,965
You'll do all right. You'll do okay."
570
00:35:43,050 --> 00:35:45,760
I just can't - I couldn't do that.
571
00:35:45,844 --> 00:35:48,137
The whole thing was just too -
too silly to me.
572
00:35:48,222 --> 00:35:49,931
I couldn't get with it, you know.
573
00:35:51,934 --> 00:35:53,935
Here's a real beautiful one.
574
00:35:55,270 --> 00:35:57,271
I should get -
575
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:03,444
The work in this book - the art, the feelings -
it's what made me fall in love with Robert.
576
00:36:03,529 --> 00:36:06,906
The way he saw colors
and the way he saw women.
577
00:36:06,990 --> 00:36:11,244
When I was 17 years old,
I looked a lot like that.
578
00:36:11,328 --> 00:36:13,663
So I was what he had been drawing.
579
00:36:13,747 --> 00:36:16,916
I was the embodiment
of what he had been drawing for years.
580
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,545
It's such a sweet, romantic vision of things.
581
00:36:20,629 --> 00:36:23,548
He did this book.
It took him, I think, a year.
582
00:36:23,632 --> 00:36:25,675
That was his life.
583
00:36:25,759 --> 00:36:29,637
And he had just finished the book,
like, days before we met.
584
00:36:29,721 --> 00:36:32,765
[Robert] My parents were always fighting,
and I used to say I'm never getting married.
585
00:36:32,849 --> 00:36:35,726
My father said, "Eh, you'll marry
the first one that comes along."
586
00:36:35,811 --> 00:36:38,312
He was right.
587
00:36:38,397 --> 00:36:42,567
Robert always had a sketchbook
or two going and -
588
00:36:42,651 --> 00:36:45,152
Nothing - He was constantly drawing.
589
00:36:45,237 --> 00:36:47,822
If we were in a restaurant,
he'd draw on the place mat.
590
00:36:47,906 --> 00:36:50,324
If we were on the bus,
he'd draw on his bus ticket.
591
00:36:52,286 --> 00:36:56,747
[Robert]
I had this big change in 1965 and '66.
592
00:36:56,832 --> 00:37:00,084
And it was visionary, you know.
593
00:37:00,168 --> 00:37:05,381
Very powerful, kind of "knock you on your ass"
kind of visionary experience.
594
00:37:06,383 --> 00:37:10,761
This is my sketchbook for 1966
that covers that period.
595
00:37:10,846 --> 00:37:13,222
I took this very weird drug.
596
00:37:13,307 --> 00:37:17,018
Supposedly it was L.S.D.,
but it had a really weird effect...
597
00:37:17,102 --> 00:37:20,479
where it made my brain all fuzzy.
598
00:37:20,564 --> 00:37:22,315
This effect lasted for a couple of months.
599
00:37:22,399 --> 00:37:25,818
I started getting these images,
these kind of cartoon characters like this...
600
00:37:25,902 --> 00:37:29,030
that I'd never drawn before,
with these big shoes and everything.
601
00:37:29,114 --> 00:37:34,201
I let go of trying to have anything like
a coherent, fixed idea about what I was doing...
602
00:37:34,286 --> 00:37:39,707
and I started being able to draw
these stream-of-consciousness comic strips.
603
00:37:39,791 --> 00:37:41,959
Just kind of making up stuff.
604
00:37:42,044 --> 00:37:44,962
It didn't have to make any sense.
It could be - It could be stupid.
605
00:37:45,047 --> 00:37:47,048
It didn't make any difference.
606
00:37:47,132 --> 00:37:49,717
All the characters that I used
for the next several years, I thought up -
607
00:37:49,801 --> 00:37:52,762
all came to me during this period.
608
00:37:52,846 --> 00:37:55,264
These things fit into this vision I was having.
609
00:37:55,349 --> 00:38:01,062
It was a revelation of some seamy side
of America's subconscious.
610
00:38:01,146 --> 00:38:04,440
I remember, when I was drawing this,
there was this young girl there.
611
00:38:04,524 --> 00:38:06,984
She was like, "Oh, isn't that cute!"
612
00:38:07,069 --> 00:38:11,364
And to me, it was all like a horror show,
this whole thing.
613
00:38:11,448 --> 00:38:13,908
And she just thought it was really cute
and happy-looking.
614
00:38:13,992 --> 00:38:18,579
To me, it was just, like, a drawing
of the horror of America.
615
00:39:02,874 --> 00:39:07,586
[Robert] There were all these hippie
underground papers starting up in '66, '67.
616
00:39:07,671 --> 00:39:09,588
Every town had one or two of 'em.
617
00:39:09,673 --> 00:39:14,635
They would print anything if it was related
to the psychedelic experience or the hippie ethic.
618
00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:19,390
So I started submitting
some of these L.S.D.-inspired comics...
619
00:39:19,474 --> 00:39:23,102
that I had been doing in my sketchbooks
to these papers, and they liked them.
620
00:39:23,186 --> 00:39:26,647
Then this guy came along who suggested
I do a whole issue of his paper.
621
00:39:26,732 --> 00:39:30,025
It was called Yarrowstalks.
So I did that, and that went over big.
622
00:39:30,110 --> 00:39:33,154
Then he said, "Why don't you just do
psychedelic comic books?
623
00:39:33,238 --> 00:39:34,864
And I'll publish them for you."
624
00:39:34,948 --> 00:39:39,201
So I set to work,
and I did two whole issues of Zap Comix.
625
00:40:54,528 --> 00:40:58,322
Crumb was incredibly exciting
and incredibly hot.
626
00:40:58,406 --> 00:41:00,825
There were just really a handful of us...
627
00:41:00,909 --> 00:41:04,995
doing this - this new form of comics.
628
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:09,458
And what he was doing
was just more innovative...
629
00:41:09,543 --> 00:41:13,045
than what any of us had even thought of.
630
00:41:15,465 --> 00:41:18,926
[Dana] It was fun to be a part of that
and to see Zap suddenly everywhere...
631
00:41:19,010 --> 00:41:23,138
from this concept of Robert's,
this fantasy of doing his own comic book...
632
00:41:23,223 --> 00:41:25,099
with a glossy cover and actually printed...
633
00:41:25,183 --> 00:41:29,520
to seeing it start turning up in all the windows
on Haight Street, windows around town...
634
00:41:29,604 --> 00:41:31,647
hearing people talk about it...
635
00:41:31,731 --> 00:41:35,317
having the other artists show up at
a certain point and wanting to be a part of it.
636
00:41:35,402 --> 00:41:37,319
It happened very quickly.
637
00:41:37,404 --> 00:41:40,072
It seems to me, in retrospect,
it happened in a matter of weeks.
638
00:41:44,244 --> 00:41:46,245
[No Audible Dialogue]
639
00:42:02,554 --> 00:42:05,139
[Man] Crumb generously
gave the ownership of Zap...
640
00:42:05,223 --> 00:42:06,390
to all the artists.
641
00:42:06,474 --> 00:42:07,850
Basically, there was no editor.
642
00:42:07,934 --> 00:42:09,560
There was a certain point where it seemed...
643
00:42:09,644 --> 00:42:12,396
as though underground comics...
644
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,107
could kind of get into the big time...
645
00:42:15,191 --> 00:42:19,570
and Crumb almost seemed reluctant
to push that sort of thing.
646
00:42:19,654 --> 00:42:21,655
They were offering him 100,000 bucks...
647
00:42:21,740 --> 00:42:24,241
just off the top of the bat...
648
00:42:24,326 --> 00:42:26,327
just to start talking.
649
00:42:26,411 --> 00:42:29,038
Robert turned it down in two seconds.
Actually, he turned it down.
650
00:42:29,122 --> 00:42:32,541
Aline screamed in the background,
"What are you doing, Robert? We need money."
651
00:42:32,626 --> 00:42:36,128
Forget it. I'm not going
on Saturday Night Live.
652
00:42:36,212 --> 00:42:38,422
The Rolling Stones
wanted me to do an album cover.
653
00:42:38,506 --> 00:42:41,800
There was a couple other deals like that.
I just don't know.
654
00:42:41,885 --> 00:42:43,928
This is not something you see every day
in America...
655
00:42:44,012 --> 00:42:46,263
where selling out
is kind of everybody's ambition.
656
00:42:46,348 --> 00:42:50,601
After about a year of recognition
and all the bullshit of fame and all that...
657
00:42:50,685 --> 00:42:52,269
I just said fuck it.
658
00:42:52,354 --> 00:42:57,483
And I started drawing the dark part
of myself again in the comics...
659
00:42:57,567 --> 00:42:59,568
which I'd always kept hidden before.
660
00:42:59,653 --> 00:43:03,155
I was used to what he had been doing...
661
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,866
which was really quite sweet.
662
00:43:05,951 --> 00:43:11,538
Then he did this one that was just
incredibly hostile to women...
663
00:43:11,623 --> 00:43:13,540
very sexually hostile.
664
00:43:13,625 --> 00:43:16,794
I wasn't expecting it, and it was really -
665
00:43:16,878 --> 00:43:19,838
I was really shocked and just taken aback.
666
00:43:19,923 --> 00:43:21,840
And really just kind of like - whack!
667
00:43:21,925 --> 00:43:23,842
It's hard for me to believe...
668
00:43:23,927 --> 00:43:28,389
that he can't just channel himself
into doing better work.
669
00:43:29,933 --> 00:43:34,645
[Woman] I like a lot of his work, and certainly
I don't miss the satirical aspect of it.
670
00:43:34,729 --> 00:43:35,938
Then I find myself having...
671
00:43:36,022 --> 00:43:37,731
a completely different reaction...
672
00:43:37,816 --> 00:43:39,650
perhaps one of being really turned off...
673
00:43:39,734 --> 00:43:41,443
and disgusted.
674
00:43:41,528 --> 00:43:46,156
And you know, this -
this cartoon, Joe Blow...
675
00:43:46,241 --> 00:43:49,785
is one that I thought about, um,
a lot in that light.
676
00:43:49,869 --> 00:43:55,541
On the one hand, it's a satire of a 1950s -
the healthy facade of the American family.
677
00:43:55,625 --> 00:44:00,087
And it kind of exposes
the sickness under the surface.
678
00:44:01,423 --> 00:44:07,302
But at the same time, you sense that Crumb
is getting off on it himself in some other way.
679
00:44:07,387 --> 00:44:10,014
And on another level, it's an orgy.
680
00:44:10,098 --> 00:44:13,892
It's a self-indulgent orgy,
um, in a fantasy.
681
00:44:13,977 --> 00:44:18,814
And the fantasy- Specifically,
this story is a story about a father...
682
00:44:18,898 --> 00:44:22,359
who commands his daughter
to give him a blow job.
683
00:44:22,444 --> 00:44:24,862
And she does, and they wind up having sex.
684
00:44:24,946 --> 00:44:29,033
And the little sort of Leave It to Beaver type
brother character comes running in...
685
00:44:29,117 --> 00:44:31,493
and sees the father and his sister,
and he's shocked and upset.
686
00:44:31,578 --> 00:44:33,495
He goes running to the mother to tell her.
687
00:44:33,580 --> 00:44:38,917
And Mom comes out of a closet
wearing a sort of S-and-M kind of getup.
688
00:44:39,002 --> 00:44:41,045
And the little boy says, "Oh, cool."
689
00:44:41,129 --> 00:44:44,173
The next thing, Mom and son are having sex.
690
00:44:44,257 --> 00:44:47,468
The whole panel ends - The whole cartoon
ends with the parents saying...
691
00:44:47,552 --> 00:44:51,305
"Gee, we should spend more time with the kids.”
Or something like that. Very funny.
692
00:44:51,389 --> 00:44:56,143
Um, so, you know,
you read something like this...
693
00:44:56,227 --> 00:44:59,229
and I think that it has gone over the line...
694
00:44:59,314 --> 00:45:04,985
from a satire of a 1950s, hygienic...
695
00:45:05,070 --> 00:45:08,405
you know, family in denial...
696
00:45:08,490 --> 00:45:12,785
into something which is just
Crumb producing pornography.
697
00:45:12,869 --> 00:45:16,080
And I think this theme in his work
is omnipresent.
698
00:45:16,164 --> 00:45:19,458
It's part of an arrested juvenile vision.
699
00:45:19,542 --> 00:45:24,421
[Hughes] Crumb's material comes out of
a deep sense of the absurdity of human life.
700
00:45:24,506 --> 00:45:26,548
At a certain kind of psychic level,
there aren't any heroes...
701
00:45:26,633 --> 00:45:29,009
there aren't any villains,
there aren't any heroines.
702
00:45:29,094 --> 00:45:31,804
And even the victims are comic.
703
00:45:31,888 --> 00:45:36,391
And, um, I think it's this which people
in America find rather hard to take...
704
00:45:36,476 --> 00:45:39,895
because it conflicts with their basic feelings -
705
00:45:39,979 --> 00:45:44,108
that sort of mixture of utopianism
on one hand and Puritanism on the other...
706
00:45:44,192 --> 00:45:47,361
which is only another kind of utopianism.
707
00:45:47,445 --> 00:45:52,074
Which has given us the kind of messy discourse
that we have today.
708
00:45:52,158 --> 00:45:56,787
So, naturally, Crumb, like all great satirists,
is something of an outsider in his own country.
709
00:46:21,604 --> 00:46:25,524
- ♪♪ [Boom Box]
- ♪ Females on my tip, and it ain't funny ♪
710
00:46:25,608 --> 00:46:28,277
- ♪ Why ♪
- ♪ I don't know, probably 'cause I got money♪
711
00:46:28,361 --> 00:46:30,904
♪ Don't want me
Just want my riches ♪
712
00:46:30,989 --> 00:46:34,158
♪ Things like that
keep stitches on my britches ♪
713
00:46:34,242 --> 00:46:36,201
♪ I wear all 501 s ♪
714
00:46:36,286 --> 00:46:38,787
♪ Many wear Adidas
but I have none ♪
715
00:46:38,872 --> 00:46:40,581
♪ Filas, I'm coolin' ♪♪
716
00:47:02,770 --> 00:47:05,272
[Vehicle Engine Revving]
717
00:47:07,442 --> 00:47:08,942
[Tires Screeching]
718
00:48:20,932 --> 00:48:22,975
[No Audible Dialogue]
719
00:49:04,183 --> 00:49:07,561
♪♪ [Rap Continues]
720
00:49:14,527 --> 00:49:16,570
[Robert]
Jesus! This fucking raging...
721
00:49:18,406 --> 00:49:21,950
epithet music coming out of
every car, every store...
722
00:49:22,035 --> 00:49:24,202
every person's head.
723
00:49:27,623 --> 00:49:30,542
If they don't have noisy radios,
they got earphones on, like...
724
00:49:30,626 --> 00:49:33,045
"Motherfuckin',
cock-suckin' son of a bitch."
725
00:49:33,129 --> 00:49:36,089
That's a lot of aggression.
A lot of anger, a lot of rage.
726
00:49:36,174 --> 00:49:37,924
- ♪♪ [Boom Box]
- ♪ Just callin' to the motherfuck♪
727
00:49:38,009 --> 00:49:41,094
Everybody walks around -
They're walking advertisements.
728
00:49:41,179 --> 00:49:44,306
They've got advertisements
on their clothes, you know.
729
00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:47,934
Go walking around with "Adidas"
written across their chest...
730
00:49:48,019 --> 00:49:50,270
or, you know, "49ers" on their hat.
731
00:49:50,355 --> 00:49:53,315
Jesus. It's pathetic. It's pitiful.
732
00:49:53,399 --> 00:49:55,817
The whole culture's one unified field...
733
00:49:55,902 --> 00:49:59,571
of bought, sold, market-researched everything.
734
00:49:59,655 --> 00:50:02,449
It used to be that people
fermented their own culture.
735
00:50:02,533 --> 00:50:06,495
It took hundreds of years,
and it evolved over time and, you know -
736
00:50:06,579 --> 00:50:09,748
And that's gone in America.
737
00:50:09,832 --> 00:50:14,044
People now don't even have any concept
that there ever was a culture...
738
00:50:14,128 --> 00:50:17,381
outside of this thing
that's created to make money.
739
00:50:17,465 --> 00:50:21,093
Whatever's the biggest, latest thing,
they're into it, you know?
740
00:50:21,177 --> 00:50:23,470
You just get disgusted after a while
with humanity...
741
00:50:23,554 --> 00:50:26,390
for not having more, kind of like...
742
00:50:26,474 --> 00:50:29,601
you know, intellectual curiosity...
743
00:50:29,685 --> 00:50:33,939
about what's behind all this jive bullshit.
744
00:50:50,832 --> 00:50:52,290
[Woman Chuckles]
745
00:50:52,375 --> 00:50:54,960
Charles and I talk quite a bit about things.
746
00:50:55,044 --> 00:50:57,546
- [Charles] We don't really talk that much.
- Yeah, we do.
747
00:50:57,630 --> 00:51:00,298
We hold aloof from each other
for the most part.
748
00:51:00,383 --> 00:51:03,176
You spend all your time down here
watching television...
749
00:51:03,261 --> 00:51:05,595
and doing your crossword puzzles.
750
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:09,391
- I don't watch television all the time.
- I spend most of my time in my room reading books.
751
00:51:09,475 --> 00:51:11,518
I turn it on because it puts me to sleep.
752
00:51:14,021 --> 00:51:16,398
It's a good way to get to sleep.
753
00:51:16,482 --> 00:51:18,775
We're two recluses living in the same house.
754
00:51:18,860 --> 00:51:21,194
I wake up at 3:00 in the morning,
and it's still on.
755
00:51:21,279 --> 00:51:24,698
You do most of the talking
in the relationship, Mother.
756
00:51:24,782 --> 00:51:27,033
There's no doubt about that.
757
00:51:27,118 --> 00:51:28,910
You told me that even though
you take those medications...
758
00:51:28,995 --> 00:51:31,746
that you still feel nervous
and depressed sometimes.
759
00:51:31,831 --> 00:51:36,293
Yeah, but not as much as I would
if I wasn't taking the medication.
760
00:51:36,377 --> 00:51:38,295
[Chuckling]
Jesus.
761
00:51:38,379 --> 00:51:40,505
What do you think would happen
if you stopped taking that stuff?
762
00:51:40,590 --> 00:51:43,133
I don't know. I tried it a couple of times...
763
00:51:43,217 --> 00:51:45,343
and I didn't like what was starting
to happen to me.
764
00:51:45,428 --> 00:51:47,137
- Jesus.
- He gets insomnia.
765
00:51:47,221 --> 00:51:50,098
I felt as if I were becoming
gradually unhinged.
766
00:51:50,183 --> 00:51:53,143
- Oh, man.
- So I got back on them again in a big hurry.
767
00:51:53,227 --> 00:51:55,479
[Laughing]
768
00:51:55,563 --> 00:51:58,398
I tried this a couple of times -
about two or three times.
769
00:51:58,483 --> 00:52:00,650
Do you still think
they're picking my brain, Mother?
770
00:52:00,735 --> 00:52:02,694
Yeah.
771
00:52:04,238 --> 00:52:06,156
[Sighing]
Oh.
772
00:52:07,867 --> 00:52:09,993
You have nothing to hide,
nothing to be ashamed of.
773
00:52:10,077 --> 00:52:12,662
You're a good - He's a good person.
774
00:52:12,747 --> 00:52:16,124
People like Charles.
No, I mean - You know.
775
00:52:17,376 --> 00:52:20,086
Some people like me, and some don't.
776
00:52:20,171 --> 00:52:23,965
I'm a very quiet, well-behaved citizen.
777
00:52:24,050 --> 00:52:27,886
- I've gone from one extreme to the other.
- You've gone in a complete circle.
778
00:52:27,970 --> 00:52:30,180
[Robert]
You used to make trouble on the streets.
779
00:52:30,264 --> 00:52:32,516
One of the last times I went out with you,
we were walking around...
780
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:34,684
and you just went up
to some old lady on the street...
781
00:52:34,769 --> 00:52:39,356
and started, like,
drilling her about her spiritual life.
782
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,859
And she just got really frightened
and threatened to call the police.
783
00:52:42,944 --> 00:52:47,906
Charles goes up to these strangers
on the streets and starts raving at them.
784
00:52:47,990 --> 00:52:49,741
He was just a kid having fun. That's all.
785
00:52:49,825 --> 00:52:53,620
- This was when he was about 30.
- No, he wasn't!
786
00:52:54,622 --> 00:52:59,292
He's still doing that kind of stuff, but now
he doesn't even leave the house anymore.
787
00:52:59,377 --> 00:53:02,212
- He always got in trouble whenever he went out.
- No, he didn't.
788
00:53:02,296 --> 00:53:05,298
Will you give me one good reason
for leaving the house?
789
00:53:05,383 --> 00:53:10,053
At least he's not out taking illegal drugs
or selling illegal drugs.
790
00:53:10,137 --> 00:53:12,806
- No, he's taking legal drugs.
- I'm taking legal dope.
791
00:53:12,890 --> 00:53:16,017
Or being married
and making some woman miserable.
792
00:53:16,102 --> 00:53:18,395
[Robert]
This is true. This is true.
793
00:53:18,479 --> 00:53:22,315
[Mother] One thing that kind of runs -
I spent all this money.
794
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:27,279
And he's got these $200 teeth upstairs,
and he won't wear them.
795
00:53:27,363 --> 00:53:29,364
- They're too uncomfortable.
- They are at first.
796
00:53:29,448 --> 00:53:33,952
You gotta kind of leave them in there.
After a bit, you don't even know they're there.
797
00:53:34,036 --> 00:53:36,288
- What does he need 'em for?
- I never go anywhere. I never see anybody.
798
00:53:36,372 --> 00:53:39,666
What does he need 'em for -
to chew food, or what?
799
00:53:39,750 --> 00:53:41,459
Just pride in his own appearance.
800
00:53:41,544 --> 00:53:44,337
He never goes out.
What does he care what he looks like?
801
00:53:44,422 --> 00:53:46,923
I take a bath about once in six weeks.
802
00:53:47,008 --> 00:53:50,594
[Mother]
I believe in having a certain pride in yourself -
803
00:53:50,678 --> 00:53:55,307
in a way not that your ego gets out of hand
or you're an egomaniac -
804
00:53:55,391 --> 00:53:59,227
Pride can't exist except in relation
to other people.
805
00:53:59,312 --> 00:54:01,229
[Robert]
Yeah. That's right.
806
00:54:05,151 --> 00:54:09,195
I don't know.
Your hygiene habits are pretty good.
807
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:11,948
You're not - You have -
808
00:54:12,033 --> 00:54:14,826
I'm never constipated.
That's about all I can say for myself.
809
00:54:14,910 --> 00:54:17,412
[All Laughing]
810
00:54:20,041 --> 00:54:22,792
[Mother]
Oh, Charles.
811
00:54:22,877 --> 00:54:25,920
- That's something. You don't have hemorrhoids?
- That's a lot, you know.
812
00:54:26,005 --> 00:54:27,464
He doesn't have hemorrhoids.
You're doing good.
813
00:54:27,548 --> 00:54:30,216
Your father used to have trouble that way,
with constipation.
814
00:54:30,301 --> 00:54:33,178
With the bowels, yeah.
He was constipated all the time.
815
00:54:33,262 --> 00:54:35,180
- [Laughing]
- You were really obsessed with -
816
00:54:35,264 --> 00:54:37,349
I could say something, but I won't.
817
00:54:37,433 --> 00:54:39,809
When we were kids,
you were always giving us castor oil.
818
00:54:39,894 --> 00:54:41,645
You were obsessed with constipation.
819
00:54:41,729 --> 00:54:45,940
When all you kids were real little,
I used to have to take care of you by myself.
820
00:54:46,025 --> 00:54:49,152
Remember that period
where you tried giving us all enemas?
821
00:54:49,236 --> 00:54:53,073
- That didn't work out too good.
- I never gave you any enemas.
822
00:54:53,157 --> 00:54:54,324
Somebody -
823
00:54:54,408 --> 00:54:57,452
You would always threaten to give us enemas
if we didn't behave properly.
824
00:54:57,578 --> 00:55:01,581
- No, I did not.
- Somebody tried to give me an enema.
I don't know who it was.
825
00:55:07,713 --> 00:55:10,382
- [Robert] She wouldn't admit it, but -
- [Woman] The house is weird?
826
00:55:10,466 --> 00:55:12,008
It's not just a regular suburban house?
827
00:55:12,093 --> 00:55:14,427
It's a suburban house that's, like, you know -
828
00:55:14,512 --> 00:55:17,222
looks like Whatever Happened to Baby Jane
or something.
829
00:55:17,306 --> 00:55:19,099
What do you mean?
She has weird trinkets around?
830
00:55:19,183 --> 00:55:21,059
She has weird blankets on the walls. She has cats.
831
00:55:21,143 --> 00:55:23,436
The whole place smells like pee and everything.
832
00:55:23,521 --> 00:55:25,939
Don't say that on the film.
833
00:55:26,023 --> 00:55:28,525
- She doesn't want people in the house.
- Oh.
834
00:55:28,609 --> 00:55:33,947
The next thing my mother knows
is this whole crew is filing in the door.
835
00:55:34,031 --> 00:55:37,617
She says, "Oh, no. No pictures!
No pictures. No way, Jose," she says.
836
00:55:37,702 --> 00:55:40,078
[Laughing]
837
00:55:40,162 --> 00:55:43,707
Terry says, "No, no. We're just going upstairs.
We're gonna do it up in Charles's room."
838
00:55:43,791 --> 00:55:48,086
Of course, naturally, then she got into it,
and after a while, you couldn't even shut her up.
839
00:55:48,170 --> 00:55:52,340
She just talked on and on.
She chattered on and on. It was awful.
840
00:55:52,425 --> 00:55:56,928
- Let's see. What year is this? 1970.
- '70. I'd just met you.
841
00:55:57,012 --> 00:56:02,058
This is when I first met you in 1969.
That's me. I remember that.
842
00:56:02,143 --> 00:56:06,438
- This doesn't look like me.
- You're right. It's not good. Let me touch it up.
843
00:56:06,522 --> 00:56:11,735
- The nose is too bulbous.
- The eyes are too far apart also.
844
00:56:11,819 --> 00:56:13,153
Uh-huh.
845
00:56:13,237 --> 00:56:17,240
It's too late now, really. This was 18 years ago.
846
00:56:17,324 --> 00:56:20,201
- God, it just -
- How about this drawing of you?
847
00:56:20,286 --> 00:56:21,995
I remember we were in this restaurant.
848
00:56:22,079 --> 00:56:25,749
- [Furniture Clattering]
- This is ridiculous. Oh, God!
849
00:56:25,833 --> 00:56:27,959
- [Woman] I'm still rolling.
- She almost fell off the roof.
850
00:56:28,043 --> 00:56:31,254
But she can't see the notebook.
That's me?
851
00:56:31,338 --> 00:56:33,298
- I look like -
- That's you with your hair dryer.
852
00:56:33,382 --> 00:56:35,049
[Both Laughing]
853
00:56:35,134 --> 00:56:38,428
There's Terry.
[Laughing]
854
00:56:40,681 --> 00:56:43,057
That's me. I like that drawing.
855
00:56:43,142 --> 00:56:45,643
- That's one of the few drawings I liked.
- This is what you said.
856
00:56:45,728 --> 00:56:49,105
So you're going to sell these books,
and I don't get a percentage?
857
00:56:49,190 --> 00:56:51,900
Yeah. This whole case of sketchbooks here...
858
00:56:51,984 --> 00:56:55,361
I'm giving to this guy for a house in France.
859
00:56:55,446 --> 00:56:58,114
I had a lot of drawings here.
What do I get out of this?
860
00:56:58,199 --> 00:57:01,117
- What drawings?
- Several. I drew that.
861
00:57:01,202 --> 00:57:03,620
- No, Aline drew those.
- You sure?
862
00:57:03,704 --> 00:57:04,746
Yes.
863
00:57:04,830 --> 00:57:06,748
- I drew that.
- No, Aline drew those.
864
00:57:06,832 --> 00:57:08,333
Really?
865
00:57:09,335 --> 00:57:11,419
That's Aline when I first knew her.
866
00:57:11,504 --> 00:57:14,798
You went from this page, where I was on it...
867
00:57:14,882 --> 00:57:17,926
and, like, two pages later, it's Aline?
868
00:57:18,010 --> 00:57:20,678
- How did that happen?
- It was a crazy period.
869
00:57:20,763 --> 00:57:23,515
- That's disgusting.
- [Laughing]
870
00:57:24,725 --> 00:57:25,934
Horrible.
871
00:57:26,018 --> 00:57:28,311
That's you, and that's Aline.
872
00:57:28,395 --> 00:57:31,815
- Oh, Jesus.
- You really, really hated women then.
873
00:57:31,899 --> 00:57:34,651
You think it's improved, um, since then?
874
00:57:34,735 --> 00:57:37,195
Yeah. I hate them a little bit less now.
875
00:57:37,279 --> 00:57:39,781
[All Chattering]
876
00:57:46,622 --> 00:57:50,208
[Robert] Guys like me,
I like certain kinds of women's legs.
877
00:57:50,292 --> 00:57:52,460
- I'm not masochistic.
- [Woman] But you don't like feet.
878
00:57:52,545 --> 00:57:56,005
- You're not heavily into feet.
- I'm not fixated on feet, but I can get into it.
879
00:57:56,090 --> 00:58:00,176
I can - You know, I can have an orgasm...
880
00:58:00,261 --> 00:58:03,388
in playing with someone's foot, but -
[Laughs]
881
00:58:03,472 --> 00:58:07,183
It's not just, you know,
a real narrow fixation or anything.
882
00:58:08,269 --> 00:58:10,603
[Chattering]
883
00:58:10,688 --> 00:58:15,149
It's just that the way the mind of the person
who's interested in legs and feet...
884
00:58:15,234 --> 00:58:17,861
is very different from the mind
of the person who's interested in breasts.
885
00:58:17,945 --> 00:58:20,613
Breast men tend to be aggressive,
outgoing, athletic.
886
00:58:20,698 --> 00:58:22,615
- Whereas people who like the lower body -
- [Robert] She's so frightening.
887
00:58:22,700 --> 00:58:24,701
She has all these types.
She's got 'em all categorized.
888
00:58:24,785 --> 00:58:29,289
People who like the lower body
tend to be frightened, introverted.
889
00:58:29,373 --> 00:58:34,043
It all has to do with being down on the floor
when you were a scared little child...
890
00:58:34,128 --> 00:58:38,089
and looking up at that big tower of Mommy.
891
00:58:38,173 --> 00:58:42,051
What's down there? The feet and the legs.
That's where the security is.
892
00:58:42,136 --> 00:58:45,179
Women go around feeling victimized by men
all the time.
893
00:58:45,264 --> 00:58:47,015
They feel like the men have the power...
894
00:58:47,099 --> 00:58:51,060
and the area where women
can take the power from men is through sex.
895
00:58:51,145 --> 00:58:55,523
Men - because they have
that fetishistic twist to their minds...
896
00:58:55,608 --> 00:58:59,819
because they have that ability to concentrate
on one thing to the exclusion of all else -
897
00:58:59,904 --> 00:59:03,406
can really be manipulated sexually,
where women are not as susceptible.
898
00:59:03,490 --> 00:59:06,326
You are so frightening. Jesus!
899
00:59:06,410 --> 00:59:10,622
Women are susceptible to power.
That's what I find.
900
00:59:10,706 --> 00:59:15,251
Any display of power and -
"Oh, he's so interesting!
901
00:59:15,336 --> 00:59:18,296
"Gee, who's that man over there
who's being so obnoxious and arrogant?
902
00:59:18,380 --> 00:59:19,797
Hmm. He's so interesting."
903
00:59:19,882 --> 00:59:21,257
I'm a career pornographer.
904
00:59:21,342 --> 00:59:22,967
I've been at it for 16 years.
905
00:59:23,052 --> 00:59:25,053
And it was really, I think...
906
00:59:25,137 --> 00:59:26,763
what I was always destined for.
907
00:59:26,847 --> 00:59:28,222
I always loved pornography.
908
00:59:28,307 --> 00:59:29,682
[Chattering]
909
00:59:29,767 --> 00:59:32,769
I took my birthday money when I turned 18 -
'cause I was now legal -
910
00:59:32,853 --> 00:59:35,688
and went to the adult bookstore
and bought pornography.
911
00:59:35,773 --> 00:59:39,943
I went along through some other jobs,
but I always sexualized 'em...
912
00:59:40,027 --> 00:59:43,154
so finding pornography was just right.
913
00:59:43,238 --> 00:59:48,159
I'm the editor of Jugs, Leg Show
and Bust Out right now.
914
00:59:48,243 --> 00:59:52,455
I was also the creator of Big Butt magazine.
915
00:59:52,539 --> 00:59:55,041
We've arranged with Robert
to do a photo shoot today...
916
00:59:55,125 --> 00:59:57,502
which will appear in Leg Show magazine.
917
00:59:57,586 --> 01:00:01,506
We're going to have four or five women
who we think Robert will like...
918
01:00:01,590 --> 01:00:04,133
but there's never any telling
with Robert Crumb.
919
01:00:04,218 --> 01:00:06,803
Here's a girl I wish I could've gotten
for the Crumb shoot.
920
01:00:06,887 --> 01:00:10,598
This is a mother-daughter
dominance team from out in L.A.
921
01:00:10,683 --> 01:00:15,019
"Mother taught me to smother"
is this girl's motto.
922
01:00:15,104 --> 01:00:18,982
We're doing this for the Christmas issue.
The mother's wearing a little red outfit.
923
01:00:19,066 --> 01:00:21,526
As you can see,
we wanted them to do something festive.
924
01:00:21,610 --> 01:00:26,030
- ♪♪ [Band: Ragtime]
- [No Audible Dialogue During Montage]
925
01:01:39,313 --> 01:01:41,272
♪♪ [Ends]
926
01:01:42,733 --> 01:01:46,569
He's definitely a person that would rather
be a brain in a jar than a person in a body.
927
01:01:46,653 --> 01:01:50,490
He's, like - So, basically,
we both focus on my body sexually.
928
01:01:52,034 --> 01:01:56,412
You know, Robert's not too oriented
towards, uh, normal sex...
929
01:01:56,497 --> 01:02:00,041
so there wasn't much in the way
of normal sex in our relationship.
930
01:02:00,125 --> 01:02:04,587
But lots of piggyback rides
and, uh, wrestling around...
931
01:02:04,671 --> 01:02:07,757
and he liked to sit on my shoe a lot.
932
01:02:07,841 --> 01:02:09,759
He never takes his shirt off.
933
01:02:09,843 --> 01:02:12,929
He just likes to sort of, like,
you know, not exist.
934
01:02:13,013 --> 01:02:16,516
[Hanson] Robert is an admitted
compulsive masturbator.
935
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,310
He masturbates four, five times a day.
936
01:02:19,394 --> 01:02:23,439
He has told me that he masturbates
to his own comics.
937
01:02:23,524 --> 01:02:26,567
I'm sure Picasso did. Um -
938
01:02:26,652 --> 01:02:29,028
I think probably, um -
939
01:02:30,572 --> 01:02:32,990
Yeah, I think probably some do.
940
01:02:33,075 --> 01:02:36,119
But I don't think that many artists...
941
01:02:36,203 --> 01:02:40,373
give you such a wide range of masturbatory
possibility as Crumb, you know?
942
01:02:41,375 --> 01:02:43,501
That is, if you like what he likes.
943
01:02:43,585 --> 01:02:45,503
Does he actually do that?
944
01:02:45,587 --> 01:02:48,339
Robert doesn't exaggerate anything
in his comics.
945
01:02:48,423 --> 01:02:50,716
The women are exactly
the way he wants them...
946
01:02:50,801 --> 01:02:53,970
and he really accurately portrays himself...
947
01:02:54,054 --> 01:02:59,350
as the skinny, bad posture,
myopic man he is.
948
01:02:59,434 --> 01:03:03,020
Some people wonder if he doesn't
exaggerate the size of his penis...
949
01:03:03,105 --> 01:03:05,481
which always appears
awfully big in the comics.
950
01:03:05,566 --> 01:03:08,067
Robert does not exaggerate anything.
951
01:03:08,152 --> 01:03:11,529
He is endowed with one of
the biggest penises in the world.
952
01:03:14,575 --> 01:03:17,618
Why do I have
my particular sexual proclivities?
953
01:03:17,703 --> 01:03:19,620
I don't know.
954
01:03:19,705 --> 01:03:21,998
Ask a psychiatrist.
I don't know what it's about.
955
01:03:22,082 --> 01:03:24,000
Well, the thing about Robert is...
956
01:03:24,084 --> 01:03:26,836
I think I always just thought he was kidding
about them, that he was trying -
957
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,255
- You thought I was kidding?
- I mean, I -
958
01:03:31,258 --> 01:03:33,551
That he was trying to be funny, and -
959
01:03:33,635 --> 01:03:36,304
Yeah, that's right, Kathy.
960
01:03:36,430 --> 01:03:40,766
- I couldn't imagine how anyone could
really be serious about these things.
- You weren't laughing.
961
01:03:40,851 --> 01:03:45,021
- What do you think?
- It was just complete chaos, this relationship.
962
01:03:45,105 --> 01:03:48,608
I mean, the crying and all the fighting
started pretty soon actually.
963
01:03:48,692 --> 01:03:51,736
I think you cried, like, the third time
I'd been with you, or something.
964
01:03:51,820 --> 01:03:56,073
Well, what's so horrible about crying?
Why - Why is that so painful to you?
965
01:03:56,158 --> 01:03:59,160
I think, oh, my God. What am I -
How can I deal with it? What should I do?
966
01:03:59,244 --> 01:04:01,370
She's crying. I don't know what to do.
967
01:04:01,455 --> 01:04:05,750
So what you're saying is,
20 years later, you still had no idea...
968
01:04:05,834 --> 01:04:09,086
what you were doing
that could've contributed to that?
969
01:04:09,171 --> 01:04:11,088
No, I guess I don't.
[Laughing]
970
01:04:11,173 --> 01:04:14,842
It was confusing
because he was totally irresponsible.
971
01:04:14,927 --> 01:04:17,011
- Well.
- He would call me up and say...
972
01:04:17,095 --> 01:04:20,389
"I love you. I miss you.
I can't wait to see you."
973
01:04:20,474 --> 01:04:23,643
And then this was -
He was supposed to be 200 miles away.
974
01:04:23,727 --> 01:04:25,728
He said, "I'll see you in a week or two."
975
01:04:25,812 --> 01:04:29,732
And then I'd go out to buy some groceries
two hours later...
976
01:04:29,816 --> 01:04:31,859
and I'd see him with another woman.
977
01:04:31,944 --> 01:04:35,404
And then he'd wonder
why I kicked him or got mad.
978
01:04:35,489 --> 01:04:38,824
- Do you think I'm sadistic?
- Yeah - [Chuckles]
979
01:04:38,909 --> 01:04:41,369
Ow!
980
01:04:41,453 --> 01:04:44,789
Yeah, I think he -
he would always, um, you know, act...
981
01:04:44,873 --> 01:04:47,917
like he was passively a victim.
982
01:04:48,001 --> 01:04:51,837
I used to call it his Ashley Wilkes routine...
983
01:04:51,922 --> 01:04:54,257
- that he would pull -
- [Laughing]
984
01:04:54,341 --> 01:04:58,719
where he was just this passive
victim of circumstance, you know...
985
01:04:58,804 --> 01:05:00,930
in other people's desires...
986
01:05:01,014 --> 01:05:05,559
when really he was just trying to get away
with whatever he could get away with...
987
01:05:05,644 --> 01:05:07,603
and walking all over people.
988
01:05:07,688 --> 01:05:11,107
I walked all over people? Like who? Like you?
989
01:05:11,191 --> 01:05:15,945
You think that you were a good guy,
you were a nice boyfriend to me at the time.
990
01:05:17,489 --> 01:05:21,200
I think maybe I'm just not
a very romantic person. That's all.
991
01:05:21,285 --> 01:05:24,954
I've never been, like - I don't think
I've ever actually, if I really think about it...
992
01:05:25,038 --> 01:05:26,956
ever been in love, you know.
993
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:31,002
Oh, I have many letters where you
said "I love you" hundreds of times.
994
01:05:31,086 --> 01:05:34,088
- Yeah, I was just abusing the word, you know.
- [Laughs]
995
01:05:34,172 --> 01:05:36,465
- I had this overpowering -
- I'm leaving.
996
01:05:36,550 --> 01:05:38,718
- No, I - I was very fond of you.
- [Kick Lands]
997
01:05:38,802 --> 01:05:40,678
Ouch!
998
01:05:40,762 --> 01:05:42,680
I was very fond of you...
999
01:05:42,764 --> 01:05:46,475
and I certainly had the most overpowering lust
for you that you could possibly imagine...
1000
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:49,562
but I wouldn't say that I was in love.
1001
01:05:49,646 --> 01:05:51,564
I just don't - don't have it in me.
1002
01:05:51,648 --> 01:05:54,942
- I've never been in love
with any woman, never been jealous.
- That's horrible.
1003
01:05:55,027 --> 01:05:59,155
The only woman I've ever been in love with
is Sophie, basically, my darling daughter.
1004
01:05:59,239 --> 01:05:59,280
- [Beeping]
- Hey.
1005
01:05:59,281 --> 01:06:02,199
- [Beeping]
- Hey.
1006
01:06:03,243 --> 01:06:05,411
You made me mess up.
You provoked me.
1007
01:06:07,331 --> 01:06:09,248
- Look out. Yeah!
- [Gasps]
1008
01:06:09,333 --> 01:06:11,834
- [Sighs]
- [Imitates Squeak]
1009
01:06:11,918 --> 01:06:13,919
[Beeping]
1010
01:06:24,848 --> 01:06:27,433
[Robert Imitates Shooting Sound]
1011
01:06:27,517 --> 01:06:31,020
I did a bunch of books in the early '70s
that were really self-deprecating.
1012
01:06:31,104 --> 01:06:33,356
My self-hatred was really intense then.
1013
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:36,233
Did you ever see this one?
This one's Twisted Sisters.
1014
01:06:38,195 --> 01:06:40,404
Nice cover. I show myself on the toilet.
1015
01:06:40,489 --> 01:06:43,949
[Laughs]
It got no recognition. Nobody bought it.
1016
01:06:44,034 --> 01:06:46,077
I asked the publisher, you know,
how it was doing.
1017
01:06:46,161 --> 01:06:50,790
He said he was using it for insulation
in the walls of his barn.
1018
01:06:52,376 --> 01:06:55,378
[Zwigoff] What's the gist of your comics?
What are they like?
1019
01:06:55,462 --> 01:06:59,131
They're all about me -
my sex life, my phobias...
1020
01:06:59,216 --> 01:07:02,551
you know, what a disgusting human being
I think I am.
1021
01:07:02,636 --> 01:07:05,346
- You know, I hope -
- But your mother's featured in it a lot too.
1022
01:07:05,430 --> 01:07:08,391
Yeah. Yeah.
It's the way I can tolerate my mother -
1023
01:07:08,475 --> 01:07:11,102
is by drawing really hideous drawings of her...
1024
01:07:11,186 --> 01:07:13,771
like - like this, for example.
1025
01:07:13,855 --> 01:07:17,149
[Laughing] This is after Sophie was born.
My mother came to visit me.
1026
01:07:17,234 --> 01:07:20,027
She was so irritating and so unhelpful.
1027
01:07:20,112 --> 01:07:23,864
She just talks about how she couldn't hold
the baby 'cause she'd just had her nails wrapped.
1028
01:07:23,949 --> 01:07:27,910
My mother yells really loud in the restaurant,
"Got any Sweet'N Low, dear?"
1029
01:07:27,994 --> 01:07:32,331
[Laughs] A real quiet sort of fern-bar
restaurant in San Francisco.
1030
01:07:32,416 --> 01:07:34,834
And every single person
turned around to look, you know?
1031
01:07:34,918 --> 01:07:39,463
She came to the airport with an Afro, dressed
up to the minute in this completely trendy outfit.
1032
01:07:39,548 --> 01:07:42,133
And Robert and I looked
like immigrants just off the boat.
1033
01:07:42,217 --> 01:07:44,552
[Zwigoff] That's your father there
in the middle, on the bottom there?
1034
01:07:44,636 --> 01:07:47,888
That's my mother's husband, yeah.
She had him dressed in a leisure suit.
1035
01:07:47,973 --> 01:07:51,267
When she first met him,
he used to wear, like, baggy brown suits...
1036
01:07:51,351 --> 01:07:53,853
and he had, like, short hair,
and he was kind of fat.
1037
01:07:53,937 --> 01:07:57,106
And she put him on a diet
and put him in, like, safari outfits...
1038
01:07:57,190 --> 01:07:59,150
and made him grow sideburns.
1039
01:07:59,234 --> 01:08:01,235
But he was still real schlubby.
1040
01:08:01,319 --> 01:08:05,906
He had, like, schlubby posture and everything,
but he was real trendily dressed.
1041
01:08:05,991 --> 01:08:08,492
And kind of follow along after her like that.
1042
01:08:08,577 --> 01:08:11,245
- What does she think about your comics?
- She doesn't see them.
1043
01:08:11,371 --> 01:08:14,832
- She also - She's not interested.
- She never asked to see them?
She doesn't know you're a cartoonist?
1044
01:08:14,916 --> 01:08:19,712
No, unconsciously, she must know there's
some things she doesn't want to know about.
1045
01:08:19,796 --> 01:08:24,175
And the other thing is that she doesn't really
take in very much about anybody anyway.
1046
01:08:24,259 --> 01:08:26,177
She's not too interested.
1047
01:08:26,261 --> 01:08:29,555
She came here and she saw this painting
and a bunch of other paintings around...
1048
01:08:29,639 --> 01:08:32,141
and she said,
"Those are nice paintings. Who did them?"
1049
01:08:32,225 --> 01:08:35,227
I said, "I did."
She said, "I didn't know you painted."
1050
01:08:36,730 --> 01:08:39,273
I mean, she sent me to art school.
1051
01:08:39,357 --> 01:08:42,193
She just changed the subject.
"What are we having for dinner?"
1052
01:08:47,365 --> 01:08:51,285
[Robert] One thing you've obviously
already learned is the importance of black.
1053
01:08:51,369 --> 01:08:53,204
- That's good.
- Thanks, Pop.
1054
01:08:57,709 --> 01:09:00,294
- Okay, okay. Enough.
- [Laughs]
1055
01:09:01,379 --> 01:09:04,965
[Jesse] So why this figure?
Why'd you choose this one in particular?
1056
01:09:05,050 --> 01:09:08,177
I like these photos.
They're powerful photos for some reason.
1057
01:09:08,261 --> 01:09:10,846
- This one was easy to draw too, I felt.
- Right.
1058
01:09:10,931 --> 01:09:13,432
But I only pick the attractive ones.
I didn't do the -
1059
01:09:13,517 --> 01:09:16,560
Some of them are ugly, you know.
Her - she's a mess.
1060
01:09:16,645 --> 01:09:18,562
I know. She is, yeah.
1061
01:09:18,647 --> 01:09:21,690
[Robert] The text talks about her
being, like, an alcoholic reprobate.
1062
01:09:21,775 --> 01:09:23,692
They picked her up off the street,
threw her -
1063
01:09:23,777 --> 01:09:25,694
- This one - Oh, God!
- [Jesse Laughs]
1064
01:09:25,779 --> 01:09:28,531
Really a monster. Eeh.
1065
01:09:28,615 --> 01:09:32,201
See, in my drawing of her,
I made her cuter than she really is...
1066
01:09:32,285 --> 01:09:35,746
because I acquired the cuteness curse
when I worked at American Greetings...
1067
01:09:35,830 --> 01:09:38,123
- which I can't shake.
- You see that?
1068
01:09:38,208 --> 01:09:40,543
You got the tilt of her head right.
1069
01:09:40,627 --> 01:09:43,254
- I just noticed that.
- That's hard. That's hard to do.
1070
01:09:43,338 --> 01:09:47,007
You have to really, you know -
Actually, the proportions of this to this.
1071
01:09:47,092 --> 01:09:49,677
You know, is that the same,
or is it shorter?
1072
01:09:49,761 --> 01:09:52,638
I did a lot of erasing in pencil at first.
1073
01:09:52,722 --> 01:09:55,891
[Chair Scraping On Floor]
1074
01:09:55,976 --> 01:10:00,729
What you haven't learned yet is how to cheat,
though, to get the desired effect that you want.
1075
01:10:00,814 --> 01:10:03,065
Like what - draw over the top
of a Xerox or something?
1076
01:10:03,149 --> 01:10:08,070
Well - I mean, what you want is, like, capture
a certain thing about this woman's face.
1077
01:10:08,154 --> 01:10:10,698
A certain defiance
or whatever it is you see in there.
1078
01:10:10,782 --> 01:10:12,408
Yeah, I didn't get it.
1079
01:10:12,492 --> 01:10:15,703
Exaggerate those little things
that give her that look, you know.
1080
01:10:15,787 --> 01:10:20,332
Like the way her teeth are slightly showing,
like she's got a slight sneer, you know.
1081
01:10:20,417 --> 01:10:22,835
I sort of try to do that,
but it's hard with pencil.
1082
01:10:22,919 --> 01:10:25,212
Just exaggerate it a little bit.
You know, cheat it a little bit.
1083
01:10:25,297 --> 01:10:28,757
Like the tilt of the head and the sneer,
you would just make, you know -
1084
01:10:28,842 --> 01:10:31,093
emphasize that.
1085
01:10:31,177 --> 01:10:33,095
You kind of almost
have to do it consciously -
1086
01:10:33,179 --> 01:10:36,515
make a decision of what you want
to bring out in this person's face.
1087
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:38,851
I did that here,
but it still didn't work out.
1088
01:10:38,935 --> 01:10:42,605
[Robert] Well, it's very subtle in that photo.
It's very, very subtle.
1089
01:10:42,689 --> 01:10:45,065
My drawing doesn't capture the hate.
1090
01:10:45,150 --> 01:10:47,610
[Jesse] It kind of does in a way.
You've got the open mouth.
1091
01:10:47,694 --> 01:10:50,946
- That's sort of the key to the whole thing.
- That sneer, you know?
1092
01:10:51,031 --> 01:10:53,824
- Baring the teeth.
- Yeah. That's key.
1093
01:10:53,908 --> 01:10:58,162
You know they obviously ordered her
to sit down and don't move.
1094
01:10:58,246 --> 01:11:02,166
They're gonna take her picture,
and just, you know - "Sit there."
1095
01:11:02,250 --> 01:11:05,169
You can see that she really doesn't like it.
1096
01:11:05,253 --> 01:11:09,173
It'd be good, actually, if you could take
life drawing. I think that'd be really -
1097
01:11:09,257 --> 01:11:12,593
You didn't go to art school,
and look, you're rich and famous.
1098
01:11:12,677 --> 01:11:14,345
- [Laughs]
- Geez.
1099
01:11:14,429 --> 01:11:18,641
We're not talking about rich and famous.
We're talking about learning how to draw.
1100
01:11:18,725 --> 01:11:21,727
A lot of my recent works appear
in this Weirdo magazine.
1101
01:11:21,811 --> 01:11:24,021
These are the kind of guys
who read my work.
1102
01:11:24,105 --> 01:11:26,899
It's kind of an ode
to the Weirdo reader there -
1103
01:11:26,983 --> 01:11:31,820
the hurt, sensitive kind of guy
who doesn't fit in with the normal people.
1104
01:11:31,905 --> 01:11:33,822
Like these people back here.
1105
01:11:33,907 --> 01:11:36,992
She's saying,
"I always hated the Three Stooges."
1106
01:11:37,077 --> 01:11:40,162
Of course, he loves the Three Stooges.
[Laughs]
1107
01:11:41,498 --> 01:11:44,124
This is my source material here.
1108
01:11:44,209 --> 01:11:48,504
I couldn't find any pictures in magazines
of ordinary, modern...
1109
01:11:48,588 --> 01:11:50,506
street scenes in America...
1110
01:11:50,590 --> 01:11:53,050
so I persuaded this guy
that I know in Sacramento...
1111
01:11:53,134 --> 01:11:55,135
to spend a day with me driving around -
1112
01:11:55,220 --> 01:11:57,805
'cause I don't drive,
so couldn't get around and do it myself -
1113
01:11:57,889 --> 01:12:02,101
just to take snapshots of ordinary
street corners in modern America.
1114
01:12:02,185 --> 01:12:04,478
This has been indispensable to me.
1115
01:12:04,562 --> 01:12:06,480
You can't remember these things...
1116
01:12:06,564 --> 01:12:09,108
to draw these modern light poles
and all this crap...
1117
01:12:09,192 --> 01:12:13,070
all this junk
that's on every suburban street.
1118
01:12:13,154 --> 01:12:15,155
I've used it in a lot of places.
1119
01:12:16,825 --> 01:12:19,743
It's background here.
Stuff like that.
1120
01:12:19,828 --> 01:12:23,414
All this back here.
In my story in here, I used it also.
1121
01:12:25,500 --> 01:12:30,379
This whole background, all this stuff,
I put it right over here.
1122
01:12:30,463 --> 01:12:33,841
You can't make up this crap.
You know, it's too complicated.
1123
01:12:33,925 --> 01:12:38,220
On this cover here, I used a bunch
of photos to take that stuff.
1124
01:12:38,304 --> 01:12:42,015
In the real world, this stuff
is not created to be visually pleasing.
1125
01:12:42,100 --> 01:12:45,144
It's just accumulation
of the modern industrial world.
1126
01:12:45,228 --> 01:12:48,564
People don't even notice.
They block it out.
1127
01:12:48,648 --> 01:12:50,941
♪♪ [Piano Notes]
1128
01:12:51,025 --> 01:12:52,943
[Robert]
How about if you play that?
1129
01:12:53,027 --> 01:12:55,404
♪♪ [Playing Song]
1130
01:12:56,406 --> 01:12:58,407
[Aline] Robert and Sophie, come on.
Dinner's ready.
1131
01:12:58,491 --> 01:13:00,409
- Okay.
- Hurry up.
1132
01:13:00,493 --> 01:13:02,995
- [Water Running]
- [Laughing]
1133
01:13:03,079 --> 01:13:05,080
- Oh!
- Go sit down. Get out of here.
1134
01:13:05,165 --> 01:13:07,124
- Who, me?
- No, her.
1135
01:13:07,208 --> 01:13:09,209
She's helping me.
1136
01:13:09,294 --> 01:13:11,462
[Robert]
Now she's break-dancing. Get out of here.
1137
01:13:16,384 --> 01:13:20,429
Come on, Soph.
Come over here and get your plate.
1138
01:13:20,513 --> 01:13:23,140
How's that?
1139
01:13:23,224 --> 01:13:26,894
Okay, then - Give me the gum.
I'll trade you the gum for the plate.
1140
01:13:26,978 --> 01:13:29,938
♪♪ [Ηumming]
1141
01:13:34,194 --> 01:13:36,445
Gotta have my starch and my fat.
1142
01:13:36,529 --> 01:13:38,530
[Sophie]
♪ Whoopee-dee-doo ♪
1143
01:13:39,657 --> 01:13:41,575
Ew. Look at all this food.
1144
01:13:41,659 --> 01:13:41,825
[Man Announcing]
It's fun to eat supper with your family -
1145
01:13:41,826 --> 01:13:44,870
[Man Announcing]
It's fun to eat supper with your family -
1146
01:13:44,954 --> 01:13:48,207
especially when
there is good food on the table.
1147
01:13:48,291 --> 01:13:50,709
Chuck, at least you could manage
to be on time.
1148
01:13:50,794 --> 01:13:53,295
Your mother goes to all the trouble
to prepare a fine meal.
1149
01:13:53,379 --> 01:13:56,089
It's - It's only common courtesy, Chuck.
1150
01:13:56,174 --> 01:13:59,510
I know, but I couldn't help it.
I was late home from school.
1151
01:13:59,594 --> 01:14:02,304
[Robert] Once I reached adolescence,
it was the late '50s...
1152
01:14:02,388 --> 01:14:06,683
and everybody I knew, their families had nothing
to do with the advertisement for itself...
1153
01:14:06,768 --> 01:14:09,978
that the culture was presenting
on the TV screen.
1154
01:14:10,063 --> 01:14:12,022
Why not?
1155
01:14:12,106 --> 01:14:15,734
- Do I have to have a reason?
- But all your friends will be there.
1156
01:14:15,819 --> 01:14:19,446
- [Muffled] I don't care. I'm not -
- Chuck! Don't talk with your mouth full.
1157
01:14:21,115 --> 01:14:25,077
[Man Announcing]
Chew your food well. Chew and chew.
1158
01:14:25,161 --> 01:14:27,996
Doesn't it taste extra good that way?
1159
01:14:29,082 --> 01:14:31,583
[Robert]
The whole thing was just a big false front...
1160
01:14:31,668 --> 01:14:35,504
that was just suffocating
and so dreary and depressing.
1161
01:14:36,673 --> 01:14:39,091
Okay, they grew up in the depression.
All right, all right. I understand.
1162
01:14:39,217 --> 01:14:43,178
They went through the war,
and they just wanted this thing that was
so tight and unthreatening and flat.
1163
01:14:43,263 --> 01:14:45,180
And they wanted a dull lifestyle.
1164
01:14:45,265 --> 01:14:47,266
So they wanted Perry Como...
1165
01:14:47,350 --> 01:14:50,435
and this Ozzie and Harriet shell
that we grew up in.
1166
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:55,899
The whole thing had this kind of creepy,
nightmarish, grotesque quality to it.
1167
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:05,242
This here is the first issue of Zap Comix...
1168
01:15:05,326 --> 01:15:07,494
that I did in late 1967.
1169
01:15:07,579 --> 01:15:11,707
It was, like, you know, the beginning
of all this underground comic nonsense.
1170
01:15:12,917 --> 01:15:15,377
It was all very L.S.D. inspired.
1171
01:15:15,461 --> 01:15:18,964
And a lot of these are things
I redrew from sketchbooks.
1172
01:15:19,048 --> 01:15:21,758
This Whiteman character.
1173
01:15:21,843 --> 01:15:24,469
A lot of this stuff,
I didn't realize when I was doing it...
1174
01:15:24,554 --> 01:15:27,848
what it was really about or, you know,
what it was connected to in my mind.
1175
01:15:27,932 --> 01:15:31,435
And I realized afterwards,
this is really about my father.
1176
01:15:31,519 --> 01:15:35,314
This rigid, kind of, uh...
1177
01:15:35,398 --> 01:15:38,066
gung-ho American kind of a guy.
1178
01:15:38,151 --> 01:15:42,237
But you know, it's a typical
World War II generation man.
1179
01:15:43,323 --> 01:15:45,240
When my father died in '82...
1180
01:15:45,325 --> 01:15:48,577
my aunt gave me all the stuff
that my father had sent her over the years.
1181
01:15:48,661 --> 01:15:52,748
One of the things was this book that he wrote,
Training People Effectively.
1182
01:15:52,832 --> 01:15:56,084
So - I'm not sure what he did for a living
in the last years of his life.
1183
01:15:56,169 --> 01:15:58,670
It had something to do with,
you know, employee motivation...
1184
01:15:58,755 --> 01:16:00,923
for this corporation that he worked for.
1185
01:16:01,007 --> 01:16:04,134
Here's a photo.
[Chuckles]
1186
01:16:04,218 --> 01:16:08,430
I was reading recently about this syndrome
in Japan now that Japanese businessmen have.
1187
01:16:08,514 --> 01:16:11,433
It's something about some smiling disease...
1188
01:16:11,517 --> 01:16:15,896
where they have this, like,
fixed smile on their face all the time.
1189
01:16:15,980 --> 01:16:17,940
I think my father had that.
1190
01:16:18,024 --> 01:16:20,442
The article said
it was a sign of deep depression.
1191
01:16:20,526 --> 01:16:22,778
[Laughing]
He didn't smile when he was home.
1192
01:16:22,862 --> 01:16:25,614
The smile dropped
as soon as he came home.
1193
01:16:25,698 --> 01:16:28,116
He was a grim guy.
He fought in the war and everything.
1194
01:16:28,201 --> 01:16:31,453
He just had a real hard-ass
attitude about life...
1195
01:16:31,537 --> 01:16:36,541
and thought that my mother was
mollycoddling all of us, which she was.
1196
01:16:36,626 --> 01:16:41,296
All three of his sons
ended up being wimpy, nerdy weirdos.
1197
01:16:41,381 --> 01:16:45,258
It kind of broke his heart, I think.
He wanted at least one of us to become a marine.
1198
01:16:47,470 --> 01:16:50,555
My father was real hotheaded,
and he'd just blow his stack...
1199
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:54,393
and just lash out
and just hit you real hard.
1200
01:16:54,477 --> 01:16:58,313
When I was five years old, on Christmas, he -
This whole thing happened...
1201
01:16:58,398 --> 01:17:02,484
where he blew his stack at me,
and that's when he busted my collarbone.
1202
01:17:02,568 --> 01:17:04,486
- [Zwigoff] When you were five?
- Yeah.
1203
01:17:05,738 --> 01:17:08,657
I think Charles had a penchant
for getting in trouble.
1204
01:17:08,741 --> 01:17:11,451
He was very diabolical as a kid.
1205
01:17:11,536 --> 01:17:14,496
And my father would, like,
beat him unmercifully...
1206
01:17:14,580 --> 01:17:17,833
for these things that he was always do -
these crimes he was always committing.
1207
01:17:17,917 --> 01:17:19,918
It just made him worse, I think.
1208
01:17:20,003 --> 01:17:23,130
- I had this subconscious desire to be punished.
- [Zwigoff] Why?
1209
01:17:23,214 --> 01:17:26,008
I don't know. I think it had
something to do with the old man.
1210
01:17:26,092 --> 01:17:30,262
I think it had something to do
with my being brought up by a sadistic bully.
1211
01:17:30,346 --> 01:17:32,264
[Laughing]
1212
01:17:32,348 --> 01:17:34,725
I know there's some connection there
between the two of them...
1213
01:17:34,809 --> 01:17:38,854
although I'm not really sure what it is.
1214
01:17:38,938 --> 01:17:41,231
[Zwigoff] What was your mom like
when you were a kid?
1215
01:17:41,315 --> 01:17:43,275
[Charles]
She was an amphetamine addict...
1216
01:17:43,359 --> 01:17:46,862
and these amphetamines
would make her act real crazy...
1217
01:17:46,946 --> 01:17:49,448
and do and say
all these really crazy things.
1218
01:17:49,532 --> 01:17:53,744
It had an absolutely devastating effect,
I think, on all five of us kids.
1219
01:17:53,828 --> 01:17:55,328
- Do you?
- Yeah.
1220
01:17:55,413 --> 01:17:59,249
It certainly had
a devastating effect on me anyway.
1221
01:17:59,333 --> 01:18:01,543
[Zwigoff]
How did your parents get along?
1222
01:18:01,627 --> 01:18:04,588
They got along fairly well up until the time
I was nine or 10 years old.
1223
01:18:04,672 --> 01:18:08,800
But after that, when Beattie started taking
amphetamines to keep her weight down...
1224
01:18:08,885 --> 01:18:10,802
they had a terrible time.
1225
01:18:10,887 --> 01:18:13,972
They were screaming and yelling
at each other all the time -
1226
01:18:14,057 --> 01:18:16,433
morning, noon and night.
1227
01:18:16,517 --> 01:18:19,144
- [Robert] She'd scratch at the old man's face.
- It was an absolute nightmare.
1228
01:18:19,228 --> 01:18:21,146
Till it looked like ground hamburger.
1229
01:18:21,230 --> 01:18:23,648
He used to put makeup on
when he went to work...
1230
01:18:23,733 --> 01:18:27,402
in an attempt to cover up
the scratches on his face.
1231
01:18:27,487 --> 01:18:29,738
The old man came to me one afternoon
and said...
1232
01:18:29,822 --> 01:18:33,992
"If you don't go out and get a job, Charles,
I'm gonna make your life a hell on earth."
1233
01:18:34,077 --> 01:18:36,078
[Laughing]
1234
01:18:36,162 --> 01:18:40,832
And that's exactly what he started to do -
he started to make my life a hell on earth.
1235
01:18:40,917 --> 01:18:45,087
So to get him off my back,
I took up this job as a telephone solicitor...
1236
01:18:45,171 --> 01:18:47,089
for the Philadelphia Inquirer.
1237
01:18:48,508 --> 01:18:50,675
The reason I stuck it out for a whole year...
1238
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:54,137
is because I was afraid of what
the old man might do to me if I didn't.
1239
01:18:54,222 --> 01:18:56,681
[Robert] That's the last time
you held a job though, right?
1240
01:18:56,766 --> 01:18:59,267
Yeah, and it only lasted for about a year.
1241
01:18:59,352 --> 01:19:01,311
That was back in '69.
1242
01:19:01,395 --> 01:19:04,940
[Robert] The old man was always trying
to make productive citizens out of us.
1243
01:19:05,024 --> 01:19:08,360
Even when I was a teenager,
he forced me to use my drawing talent...
1244
01:19:08,444 --> 01:19:10,946
to go out and draw pictures of houses...
1245
01:19:11,030 --> 01:19:13,281
and then ask the people
if they wanted to buy the pictures.
1246
01:19:13,366 --> 01:19:16,201
- That was mainly the old man's idea, wasn't it?
- It was completely his idea.
1247
01:19:16,285 --> 01:19:18,453
He made me do it.
He told me I had to do it.
1248
01:19:18,538 --> 01:19:21,790
It was a hateful job.
[Laughing]
1249
01:19:21,874 --> 01:19:24,835
When I first got well known,
he was kind of proud of me.
1250
01:19:24,919 --> 01:19:29,297
You know, he heard that I was getting
well known for my work, but he never saw it.
1251
01:19:29,382 --> 01:19:32,467
- I never -
- I don't think he would've approved of your work.
1252
01:19:32,552 --> 01:19:35,679
- Finally somebody -
- He would've disapproved of it
on so-called moral grounds.
1253
01:19:35,763 --> 01:19:38,807
Somebody told me that someone at work
showed him one of my comics...
1254
01:19:38,891 --> 01:19:41,601
and that's when he stopped talking to me.
1255
01:19:41,727 --> 01:19:45,981
He wouldn't speak to me after that,
after he actually saw some of that stuff
I was doing in the early '70s.
1256
01:19:53,573 --> 01:19:56,950
The story in here I had most trouble with
is this one, "A Bitchin' Bod!"
1257
01:19:57,034 --> 01:20:00,120
I got two pages into it and I thought,
"Oh, this is just too -
1258
01:20:00,204 --> 01:20:02,581
"This is too negative,
it's too twisted, it's too upsetting.
1259
01:20:02,665 --> 01:20:04,374
I gotta stop this."
1260
01:20:04,458 --> 01:20:08,962
So I quit working on it,
and I threw the pages in the garbage can.
1261
01:20:09,046 --> 01:20:12,340
And at some point,
Aline came into my studio for something...
1262
01:20:12,425 --> 01:20:16,136
and I decided, well, I'll show her this
and see what she thinks about it.
1263
01:20:16,220 --> 01:20:20,265
So I pulled 'em out of the garbage can,
and I said, "Aline, this thing -
1264
01:20:20,349 --> 01:20:23,268
"What do you think about this?
I threw it away.
1265
01:20:23,352 --> 01:20:27,689
I decided I didn't want to continue it.
It's just too weird. It's just too disturbing."
1266
01:20:27,773 --> 01:20:30,692
She read it and said,
"You have to finish this.
1267
01:20:30,776 --> 01:20:34,487
You just have to do it, obviously.
You've got to see this through."
1268
01:20:34,572 --> 01:20:39,534
I said, "Well, okay, she's a woman.
She said I have to do it, so I'll do it."
1269
01:20:39,619 --> 01:20:43,246
So Flakey Foont answers the door,
and there's this girl's body standing there.
1270
01:20:43,331 --> 01:20:45,832
But what you see
is Mr. Natural's head and his beard...
1271
01:20:45,917 --> 01:20:48,210
over the front of her
where her head should be.
1272
01:20:48,294 --> 01:20:49,836
That's how it starts.
1273
01:20:49,921 --> 01:20:52,589
Flakey Foont, he's very confused by that.
1274
01:20:52,673 --> 01:20:58,011
And, uh, Mr. Natural comes galloping in...
1275
01:20:58,095 --> 01:21:00,180
riding the girl around the room.
1276
01:21:00,264 --> 01:21:03,475
Her body's very frisky,
and you don't see her head at all.
1277
01:21:03,559 --> 01:21:07,812
You just see Mr. Natural's beard
over where her head should be.
1278
01:21:07,897 --> 01:21:12,234
Then she lands in a split...
1279
01:21:12,318 --> 01:21:17,697
and, uh, Mr. Natural starts talking about
what an amazing body this woman has.
1280
01:21:17,782 --> 01:21:20,116
But the head was always a problem...
1281
01:21:20,201 --> 01:21:22,911
'cause she had
such an obnoxious personality.
1282
01:21:22,995 --> 01:21:25,413
Flakey Foont is shocked and horrified...
1283
01:21:25,498 --> 01:21:28,708
when he sees that she actually
doesn't have a head.
1284
01:21:28,793 --> 01:21:30,669
And - [Chuckling]
1285
01:21:30,753 --> 01:21:34,881
Mr. Natural explains, "Let's face it.
She was obnoxious, so I just got rid of the head.
1286
01:21:34,966 --> 01:21:37,259
"You always wanted her,
you always lusted after her.
1287
01:21:37,343 --> 01:21:39,344
Now you can have her
because her head's missing."
1288
01:21:39,428 --> 01:21:42,180
Then he starts explaining
how he took the head off...
1289
01:21:42,265 --> 01:21:45,517
and topped the neck with this little cap...
1290
01:21:45,601 --> 01:21:49,187
and that he -
Mr. Natural says he found out -
1291
01:21:49,272 --> 01:21:53,525
he discovered that there was - that she
had a second, smaller brain in her butt -
1292
01:21:53,609 --> 01:21:57,570
[Chuckling] and that that's
what's making the body function.
1293
01:21:57,655 --> 01:22:00,448
And then he gives Foont directions
on how to feed her.
1294
01:22:00,533 --> 01:22:03,702
You take this cap off,
and you put this funnel down her neck.
1295
01:22:03,786 --> 01:22:06,746
Mr. Natural pulls out
this mannequin head and says...
1296
01:22:06,831 --> 01:22:09,332
"If you take her outside,
you got to put this head on her...
1297
01:22:09,417 --> 01:22:12,919
so people aren't shocked and horrified
by a headless girl walking around."
1298
01:22:13,004 --> 01:22:17,299
And then Mr. Natural leaves and says,
"Don't say I never did anything for you."
1299
01:22:17,383 --> 01:22:21,553
He gives the girl to Foont,
and Foont's kind of getting excited.
1300
01:22:21,637 --> 01:22:24,389
He's got this frisky,
wondrous girl body all to himself...
1301
01:22:24,473 --> 01:22:26,433
to do with whatever he wants.
1302
01:22:26,517 --> 01:22:30,395
He says, "I like it better with just the cap."
He knocks the fake head off.
1303
01:22:30,479 --> 01:22:32,480
He's leading her over to the wall...
1304
01:22:32,565 --> 01:22:36,109
and she accidentally steps on
the fake head and smashes it.
1305
01:22:36,193 --> 01:22:38,695
He pushes her against the wall,
pulls her clothes off...
1306
01:22:38,779 --> 01:22:41,281
and he's admiring her firm and solid butt.
1307
01:22:41,365 --> 01:22:43,950
This is the part where I get excited
when I'm working on it.
1308
01:22:44,035 --> 01:22:46,036
I really enjoy drawing the female form.
1309
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:48,163
I always make a lot of fuss and bother...
1310
01:22:48,247 --> 01:22:50,582
to make sure the figure comes out
just the way I want it.
1311
01:22:50,666 --> 01:22:53,543
The males,
I don't care what they look like that much.
1312
01:22:53,627 --> 01:22:56,421
So he starts to fuck her.
1313
01:22:56,505 --> 01:22:59,341
He penetrates her from behind,
and he's getting really excited.
1314
01:22:59,425 --> 01:23:01,593
At the same time, he feels somewhat guilty.
1315
01:23:01,677 --> 01:23:04,846
And then he's -
While he's in the middle of coming...
1316
01:23:04,930 --> 01:23:09,726
he imagines her severed head...
1317
01:23:09,810 --> 01:23:12,812
and then her face condemning him.
1318
01:23:12,897 --> 01:23:15,774
She says, "You little shit!"
[Laughing]
1319
01:23:15,858 --> 01:23:18,318
Cut to Mr. Natural.
He's home, phone's ringing.
1320
01:23:18,402 --> 01:23:20,862
He's saying, "Well, I got home an hour ago."
Yeah, it's Foont.
1321
01:23:20,946 --> 01:23:22,947
Yeah, he's feeling guilty.
1322
01:23:24,825 --> 01:23:28,495
Foont wants to bring her back over.
He wants to get rid of her. He can't handle it.
1323
01:23:28,579 --> 01:23:30,872
So Mr. Natural says,
"Okay, bring her over."
1324
01:23:30,956 --> 01:23:34,459
He says, "Make sure you put the head
back on before you take her outside."
1325
01:23:34,543 --> 01:23:37,045
So he goes to get the head,
and he realizes it's been smashed.
1326
01:23:37,129 --> 01:23:39,089
He doesn't know what to do.
1327
01:23:39,173 --> 01:23:41,716
Actually, a lot of these poses
in these panels...
1328
01:23:41,801 --> 01:23:45,345
I took from freeze-framing
the Fly Girls on In Living Color.
1329
01:23:45,429 --> 01:23:47,013
[Chuckles]
1330
01:23:47,098 --> 01:23:50,475
So he ties up a T-shirt into a ball
and puts it on top of the cap.
1331
01:23:50,559 --> 01:23:52,477
Then he puts a hat on.
1332
01:23:52,561 --> 01:23:54,729
He pushes her in the car.
1333
01:23:54,814 --> 01:23:56,731
Then we cut to Mr. Natural's house.
1334
01:23:56,816 --> 01:23:59,567
Mr. Natural's saying he's going to regret it
if he doesn't keep her.
1335
01:23:59,652 --> 01:24:03,571
But Mr. Natural says, "All right. Forget it.
Forget it. We'll put the head back."
1336
01:24:03,656 --> 01:24:07,492
Mr. Natural unscrews the clamp,
pulls this pipe out of her.
1337
01:24:07,576 --> 01:24:09,494
Then he reaches in there.
1338
01:24:09,578 --> 01:24:12,664
This is probably the most sickening,
disturbing panel in the whole story.
1339
01:24:12,748 --> 01:24:15,583
Aline says this is the most disturbing part
of the whole thing.
1340
01:24:15,668 --> 01:24:19,212
He's pulling real hard, and he pulls
her head back out by her tongue.
1341
01:24:19,296 --> 01:24:22,590
Her head was actually inside
her body all the time.
1342
01:24:22,675 --> 01:24:26,594
Again, Foont is very shocked,
but then he's relieved that her head is back.
1343
01:24:26,679 --> 01:24:30,390
Mr. Natural says, "Yeah, old African
witch doctor stuff. Nothing special."
1344
01:24:30,474 --> 01:24:33,059
And she just says, "That was so weird!"
1345
01:24:33,144 --> 01:24:34,769
Mr. Natural says, "Yep."
1346
01:24:34,854 --> 01:24:38,440
Then they both realize
the head's back, the trouble's back.
1347
01:24:38,524 --> 01:24:42,235
She says, what happened to her
and what did Mr. Natural do to her...
1348
01:24:42,319 --> 01:24:45,405
and where does he get his crazy ideas?
1349
01:24:45,489 --> 01:24:49,826
At this point, Foont, he feels so guilty,
he starts apologizing to the devil girl...
1350
01:24:49,910 --> 01:24:53,955
for having, like, done the deed to her
when she didn't have her head.
1351
01:24:54,039 --> 01:24:56,082
She says, "What are you saying?"
1352
01:24:56,167 --> 01:25:01,421
She suddenly realizes that Mr. Natural had
handed her over to Foont for him to play with.
1353
01:25:01,505 --> 01:25:05,717
She says, "You gave me to that shmuck
to play with as if I was a piece of meat?"
1354
01:25:05,801 --> 01:25:08,470
He says, "Aw, what the hell's the difference?"
[Chuckling]
1355
01:25:08,554 --> 01:25:10,763
So he tries to get away,
and she's chasing him.
1356
01:25:10,848 --> 01:25:13,600
In the end, she's raging with anger
and she says...
1357
01:25:13,684 --> 01:25:17,103
"Where's a butcher knife?
I'm going to cut both your heads off!"
1358
01:25:17,188 --> 01:25:19,397
Typical comic book ending.
[Chuckles]
1359
01:25:19,482 --> 01:25:23,985
I see a - a theme
running through his work...
1360
01:25:24,069 --> 01:25:26,070
that - that is very frightening...
1361
01:25:26,155 --> 01:25:30,700
and it's the woman with her head
either cut off or somehow distorted -
1362
01:25:30,784 --> 01:25:33,995
something done to it
so that nothing is left but the body.
1363
01:25:34,079 --> 01:25:36,998
And the body, of course,
you can have sex with.
1364
01:25:37,082 --> 01:25:39,751
When, for instance, Crumb draws...
1365
01:25:39,835 --> 01:25:42,337
that little monster, Mr. Natural...
1366
01:25:42,421 --> 01:25:46,341
doing things that you or I would not normally
contemplate doing with a headless woman...
1367
01:25:46,425 --> 01:25:48,134
in that the, uh -
1368
01:25:48,219 --> 01:25:52,430
It is not intended, I imagine,
to be a sort of apologia for beheading...
1369
01:25:52,515 --> 01:25:54,849
or an apologia for rape
or anything like that, no.
1370
01:25:54,934 --> 01:25:57,852
But it is an acknowledgement
that these kinds of fantasy...
1371
01:25:57,937 --> 01:26:01,189
actually do dwell in Homo sapiens -
they're there.
1372
01:26:01,273 --> 01:26:05,193
I'm saying that it's very irresponsible...
1373
01:26:05,277 --> 01:26:10,573
to put dangerous sexual fantasies...
1374
01:26:10,658 --> 01:26:12,575
on paper...
1375
01:26:12,660 --> 01:26:15,995
and make them available to the public.
1376
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:20,667
It's important for women to not just run
in horror from pornographic images...
1377
01:26:20,751 --> 01:26:24,462
and immediately think
that they represent oppression...
1378
01:26:24,547 --> 01:26:27,924
and the power of men
to degrade women...
1379
01:26:28,008 --> 01:26:32,679
and to think, sometimes,
about the fact that they often are -
1380
01:26:32,763 --> 01:26:35,265
They're fantasies of having power.
1381
01:26:35,349 --> 01:26:38,893
They're fantasies
of being able to dominate, um...
1382
01:26:38,978 --> 01:26:42,939
that come out of a fear
of precisely the opposite -
1383
01:26:43,023 --> 01:26:46,818
fear of not being able
to be attractive to women.
1384
01:26:46,902 --> 01:26:49,070
Impotence fears.
1385
01:26:49,154 --> 01:26:53,241
And, uh, fears of powerlessness in general.
1386
01:26:53,325 --> 01:26:55,910
[Zwigoff] How do you feel about the way
he depicts women in his comics?
1387
01:26:55,995 --> 01:26:59,622
Well, he just depicts his id
in its pure form, I think.
1388
01:26:59,707 --> 01:27:03,293
You know, the dark side
of human nature is in every person.
1389
01:27:03,377 --> 01:27:05,461
That's what I was drawn to in his work
to begin with -
1390
01:27:05,546 --> 01:27:09,465
that he just, like, really could
illustrate that really clearly.
1391
01:27:09,550 --> 01:27:12,760
It's really unusual to see it.
I think it's always there, you know?
1392
01:27:12,845 --> 01:27:15,638
- Does any of that bother you?
- No, he's really -
1393
01:27:15,723 --> 01:27:19,100
He's not like that in other ways,
as a person.
1394
01:27:19,184 --> 01:27:22,270
- He gets it out in his artwork. I mean -
- He fools around with other women.
1395
01:27:22,354 --> 01:27:25,106
- How do you deal with that?
- I fool around with other men.
1396
01:27:26,692 --> 01:27:29,652
I have these hostilities toward women.
I admit it.
1397
01:27:29,737 --> 01:27:33,573
I'm - It's out in the open.
I have to put it out there, you know?
1398
01:27:33,657 --> 01:27:36,451
Sometimes I think it's a mistake.
I should never have let it out.
1399
01:27:36,535 --> 01:27:39,495
I'd be, you know, more well-loved,
and I'd be just -
1400
01:27:39,580 --> 01:27:43,249
The whole thing would be a lot simpler
and easier and cleaner if I didn't let it out.
1401
01:27:43,334 --> 01:27:46,753
But it's in there,
and - and it's very strong...
1402
01:27:46,837 --> 01:27:50,381
and it ruthlessly puts -
1403
01:27:50,466 --> 01:27:53,134
forces itself out of me
onto the paper, you know...
1404
01:27:53,218 --> 01:27:55,470
for better or worse.
1405
01:27:55,554 --> 01:27:58,806
When I was, um, about nine or 10,
my brother used to collect Zap Comix.
1406
01:27:58,891 --> 01:28:03,353
And when I saw those,
they really deeply, deeply terrified me.
1407
01:28:03,437 --> 01:28:05,480
Oh, Jesus. Oh!
[Laughing]
1408
01:28:05,564 --> 01:28:09,233
I was deeply upset, and I looked at them
and thought, you know, on some level...
1409
01:28:09,318 --> 01:28:12,820
"This is what I - This is adulthood?
This is what adult women are?
1410
01:28:12,905 --> 01:28:14,822
This is what I grow up into?"
1411
01:28:14,907 --> 01:28:16,908
- And it was horrifying.
- Oh, my God.
1412
01:28:16,992 --> 01:28:20,495
And I wonder if you think about
the effect on people who read it...
1413
01:28:20,579 --> 01:28:23,748
or what you're validating for boys, or-
1414
01:28:23,832 --> 01:28:28,670
I just hope that-that somehow revealing
that truth about myself is somehow helpful.
1415
01:28:28,754 --> 01:28:31,798
I don't know. I just hope that it is.
But I have to do it.
1416
01:28:31,882 --> 01:28:34,008
Maybe - Maybe I shouldn't be allowed.
1417
01:28:34,093 --> 01:28:37,095
Maybe I should be locked up
and my pencils taken away from me.
1418
01:28:37,179 --> 01:28:40,390
I just don't know.
I really can't say, you know?
1419
01:28:40,474 --> 01:28:42,392
I can't defend myself.
1420
01:28:42,476 --> 01:28:45,478
You know, like, my daughter Sophie
was watching Goodfellas.
1421
01:28:45,562 --> 01:28:47,480
We bought a videotape of it.
1422
01:28:47,564 --> 01:28:50,608
The violent part horrified her so deeply,
she started getting a stomachache.
1423
01:28:50,693 --> 01:28:52,694
I shut it off, wouldn't let her watch it.
1424
01:28:52,778 --> 01:28:55,071
Although I think it's a great movie,
truthful movie.
1425
01:28:55,155 --> 01:28:58,866
I got a lot out of seeing it.
It's obviously not for a kid, you know.
1426
01:28:58,951 --> 01:29:02,578
Sometimes, you know,
certain harsh realities of life are -
1427
01:29:02,663 --> 01:29:05,790
You know, you've got to kind of protect
your kids a little bit from that.
1428
01:29:05,874 --> 01:29:09,168
They don't understand a lot of things yet.
Not everything's for children.
1429
01:29:09,253 --> 01:29:11,379
Not everything's for everybody, you know.
1430
01:29:11,463 --> 01:29:17,051
[Zwigoff] Have you gotten criticism about
the way you sometimes draw black people?
1431
01:29:17,136 --> 01:29:20,555
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
But it all came from white liberals.
1432
01:29:20,639 --> 01:29:25,059
[English] Here's an example of the kind of
thing I'm talking about in "Ooga Booga."
1433
01:29:25,144 --> 01:29:28,146
It's actually a mockery of black people.
1434
01:29:28,230 --> 01:29:32,442
It's sort of a vomiting up
of Crumb's own racism...
1435
01:29:32,526 --> 01:29:37,530
his own deepest, um, hostilities and fears.
1436
01:29:37,614 --> 01:29:40,783
Of course, if you have a knee-jerk reaction,
and that's as far as you get...
1437
01:29:40,868 --> 01:29:43,077
then you say he's a racist.
1438
01:29:43,162 --> 01:29:46,914
But once you start thinking about
how he's toying with that...
1439
01:29:46,999 --> 01:29:50,334
and how he's shoving it in your face...
1440
01:29:50,419 --> 01:29:52,837
you start to think about your attitudes...
1441
01:29:52,921 --> 01:29:55,882
and you start to think about the stereotypes -
how they came about.
1442
01:29:55,966 --> 01:29:57,884
You know, it gets very complicated.
1443
01:29:59,595 --> 01:30:01,929
[Robert]
All that stuff I did in the late '60s...
1444
01:30:02,014 --> 01:30:04,807
I didn't really know what it was about
when I did it.
1445
01:30:04,892 --> 01:30:06,559
It was all very instinctive.
1446
01:30:06,643 --> 01:30:08,644
Somehow, the L.S.D. liberated me
in this way...
1447
01:30:08,729 --> 01:30:13,399
that allowed me to just put it down
and not worry about what it meant.
1448
01:30:13,484 --> 01:30:16,110
I had some vague idea
that it meant something...
1449
01:30:16,195 --> 01:30:20,782
but it's only later that I'd look at it
and kind of analyze it and see what it's about.
1450
01:30:20,866 --> 01:30:25,912
Somehow, the term "nigger hearts"
just came into my mind...
1451
01:30:25,996 --> 01:30:27,914
as a product, you know?
1452
01:30:27,998 --> 01:30:31,250
It's like it's some black, deep thing...
1453
01:30:31,335 --> 01:30:34,462
in American, you know,
collective mind or something...
1454
01:30:34,546 --> 01:30:39,175
that has to do with turning
everything over for a buck.
1455
01:30:39,259 --> 01:30:42,887
I don't know. I'm not sure exactly,
but it has some message like that.
1456
01:30:42,971 --> 01:30:44,972
Quite a number of people these days...
1457
01:30:45,057 --> 01:30:47,600
would like this sort of
nice, milky vision of culture...
1458
01:30:47,684 --> 01:30:50,645
in which it's all rather improving
and leads us all towards...
1459
01:30:50,729 --> 01:30:53,648
this sort of nice little
pie-in-the-sky moral heaven...
1460
01:30:53,732 --> 01:30:56,734
where nobody's nasty to anybody else.
1461
01:30:56,819 --> 01:30:59,821
But the only thing is that,
you know, literature, culture, art...
1462
01:30:59,905 --> 01:31:03,574
isn't put there in order to have
that pleasant, normative effect.
1463
01:31:03,659 --> 01:31:08,246
You know, conservatives like to think that
great works of art lead us towards democracy.
1464
01:31:08,330 --> 01:31:09,997
Bull, you know.
1465
01:31:10,082 --> 01:31:14,293
I mean, there are speeches in Shakespeare
that are so full of hatred for the mob.
1466
01:31:14,378 --> 01:31:17,255
They're passionately elitist,
passionately antidemocratic.
1467
01:31:17,339 --> 01:31:20,174
What do you do with somebody like Céline,
who was a Nazi sympathizer...
1468
01:31:20,259 --> 01:31:22,176
but at the same time a great novelist?
1469
01:31:22,261 --> 01:31:24,804
What do you do with - Well, what
do you do with practically anybody...
1470
01:31:24,888 --> 01:31:28,683
who's got a vision of the world that doesn't
accord with the present standards of Berkeley?
1471
01:31:28,767 --> 01:31:31,269
[People Chattering]
1472
01:31:44,199 --> 01:31:46,450
- [Horn Honking]
- [Laughter]
1473
01:32:22,404 --> 01:32:26,240
[Robert]
They're all wearing Raiders and 49ers jackets.
1474
01:32:26,325 --> 01:32:31,245
- Sophie wants us to get her a 49ers jacket.
- [Maxon] She does?
1475
01:32:31,330 --> 01:32:33,831
[Robert]
Why do you want to live in the midst of it?
1476
01:32:33,916 --> 01:32:36,792
[Maxon]
Like Hamlet, I'm too scared to kill myself.
1477
01:32:36,877 --> 01:32:40,212
So you're gonna move to the south of France.
You gonna miss all this?
1478
01:32:40,297 --> 01:32:44,342
[Robert] I'll be out of here in a couple
more months. I can't live in it.
1479
01:32:44,426 --> 01:32:47,845
- I can't take it.
- [Engine Revving]
1480
01:32:47,930 --> 01:32:49,847
Oh! My God.
1481
01:32:51,183 --> 01:32:55,102
They can't wait to have the money
to get their hands on this stuff.
1482
01:32:55,187 --> 01:32:57,772
- iAy caramba!
- iAy caramba!
1483
01:33:00,192 --> 01:33:02,109
iAy caramba!
1484
01:33:05,113 --> 01:33:07,031
It's a beautiful world.
1485
01:33:14,539 --> 01:33:17,291
[Robert]
So you gonna finish this one pretty soon?
1486
01:33:17,376 --> 01:33:21,295
I don't know. It depends on when I'm gonna
have a chance to pick up an oil brush again.
1487
01:33:21,380 --> 01:33:23,839
- You worked on this recently, right?
- Uh -
1488
01:33:23,924 --> 01:33:26,968
- Did you do something to this recently?
- I don't know when was the last time I painted.
1489
01:33:27,052 --> 01:33:29,261
When I was actually working on that,
I was actually thinking of Dian Hanson -
1490
01:33:29,346 --> 01:33:32,139
that portrait of a New York floozy
you were running with.
1491
01:33:32,224 --> 01:33:34,642
- Oh, gosh.
- [Laughing]
1492
01:33:34,726 --> 01:33:39,146
- This one here?
- Yeah. This is a portrait number, you know.
1493
01:33:39,231 --> 01:33:41,649
I keep putting things together
and watch the paint do stuff.
1494
01:33:41,733 --> 01:33:43,734
How come you put
that metallic-looking brassiere on her?
1495
01:33:43,819 --> 01:33:46,278
It has something to do
with her personality was like that.
1496
01:33:46,363 --> 01:33:49,824
She has, like, a very hard,
armored personality. You know.
1497
01:33:49,908 --> 01:33:51,909
And she was a broad underneath it.
1498
01:33:51,994 --> 01:33:55,538
I think that she would find that really
disturbing - that thing you put on her there.
1499
01:33:55,622 --> 01:34:00,167
It actually just reflects the personality -
sort of icy, almost crazed expression in the eyes.
1500
01:34:00,252 --> 01:34:03,671
But there's, like, a warmth and reluctance
in the smile or something.
1501
01:34:03,755 --> 01:34:05,673
- You know what I mean?
- Ah. Interesting.
1502
01:34:05,757 --> 01:34:07,758
- She's in therapy now.
- She is?
1503
01:34:07,843 --> 01:34:10,302
Yeah. She doesn't need therapy.
1504
01:34:10,387 --> 01:34:12,596
She fucks too hard.
How do you cure that except by death?
1505
01:34:12,681 --> 01:34:14,015
Oh!
[Laughing]
1506
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:19,061
You start from a blob.
When you do ink work, you start from a line.
1507
01:34:19,146 --> 01:34:22,189
Somehow, being fixated with -
1508
01:34:22,274 --> 01:34:25,901
Like that one over there. And this is also
an example of being fixated with line.
1509
01:34:25,986 --> 01:34:28,654
I started, like, getting these very detailed -
1510
01:34:28,739 --> 01:34:33,909
You can see a very distinct line thing,
you know, in the character of it.
1511
01:34:33,994 --> 01:34:36,245
[Robert] You're pleased with this
when you look at it now?
1512
01:34:36,329 --> 01:34:38,164
[Maxon]
I like this style a lot.
1513
01:34:39,249 --> 01:34:42,877
[Robert] This is Van Gogh
shooting himself in a cornfield.
1514
01:34:42,961 --> 01:34:44,920
What's the corn? What's that about?
1515
01:34:45,005 --> 01:34:47,465
It's like that Walt Whitman line.
1516
01:34:47,549 --> 01:34:50,551
"Quintillions ripen'd
and the quintillions green."
1517
01:34:50,635 --> 01:34:55,556
He was out picking fruit, or picking -
He was a transient picker.
1518
01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:58,934
He just, like, came to this realization.
It was an abundance of the farm thing.
1519
01:34:59,019 --> 01:35:01,812
The abundance of plant growth.
1520
01:35:01,897 --> 01:35:04,231
He wrote this line.
"Quintillions ripen'd and the quintillions green."
1521
01:35:04,316 --> 01:35:08,194
- The same thing with corn.
- This is a stylized Van Gogh painting.
1522
01:35:08,278 --> 01:35:10,362
Corn has, like, infinite ability,
like primal nature.
1523
01:35:10,447 --> 01:35:13,157
[Robert]
What's with Van Gogh shooting himself?
1524
01:35:13,241 --> 01:35:18,579
His mind went to the place where there's
this infinite abundance, like in an ear of corn.
1525
01:35:18,663 --> 01:35:21,582
- He blew his -
- This is the first oil painting
you ever did, isn't it?
1526
01:35:21,666 --> 01:35:23,584
- Huh?
- Isn't this the first oil painting you ever did?
1527
01:35:23,668 --> 01:35:25,211
That's the first oil I ever did, yeah.
1528
01:35:25,295 --> 01:35:28,422
[Robert] You never drew before,
and it suddenly just came out.
1529
01:35:28,507 --> 01:35:30,966
- It was like something
was released inside of you.
- Something like that.
1530
01:35:31,051 --> 01:35:33,010
I had that first epileptic fit.
It was in the sixth grade.
1531
01:35:33,136 --> 01:35:36,555
- I was drawing this picture of my face
with charcoal in art class.
- Really?
1532
01:35:36,640 --> 01:35:39,850
I said, "Hey, man, you can draw. Look at this."
It started working out.
1533
01:35:39,935 --> 01:35:42,520
It's the first time
I had this artistic experience, you know.
1534
01:35:42,604 --> 01:35:45,940
But it was so violent to me
that I had a fucking seizure or something.
1535
01:35:46,024 --> 01:35:49,026
Ended up in the hospital the next day
or something.
1536
01:35:50,237 --> 01:35:53,781
This is probably one of the last comic covers
Charles ever did.
1537
01:35:53,865 --> 01:35:56,492
It might even be the very last one.
1538
01:35:56,576 --> 01:35:59,120
His psychotic bunny rabbits.
[Chuckles]
1539
01:35:59,204 --> 01:36:01,247
In our late teens, I persuaded Charles...
1540
01:36:01,331 --> 01:36:04,792
that we should send away
for the Famous Artists Talent Test.
1541
01:36:04,876 --> 01:36:08,254
They used to have these ads in magazines.
We each sent away for this test.
1542
01:36:08,338 --> 01:36:11,382
I did mine completely legitimately,
the way you were supposed to.
1543
01:36:11,466 --> 01:36:13,968
But Charles couldn't help himself.
1544
01:36:14,052 --> 01:36:17,805
You were supposed to, uh, complete
the outline figure by drawing a costume on it.
1545
01:36:17,889 --> 01:36:20,141
But he put these pasties on her tits...
1546
01:36:20,225 --> 01:36:24,353
and then started drawing these weird,
psychotic characters in the background.
1547
01:36:24,437 --> 01:36:26,480
Psychotic Mickey Mouse.
1548
01:36:26,565 --> 01:36:29,316
They had an outline
of this barn and this tree.
1549
01:36:29,401 --> 01:36:32,903
You were supposed to, you know,
draw in textures and surfaces.
1550
01:36:32,988 --> 01:36:36,240
They give you suggestions on how to fill in
the textures and all that stuff.
1551
01:36:36,324 --> 01:36:39,201
That's his interpretation of that.
[Chuckling]
1552
01:36:39,286 --> 01:36:42,621
And here was your ability
to arrange elements in a picture.
1553
01:36:42,706 --> 01:36:45,249
They give you objects.
You're supposed to make an arrangement.
1554
01:36:45,333 --> 01:36:47,585
So he did this and this.
[Chuckling]
1555
01:36:48,587 --> 01:36:50,504
"Your imagination as an illustrator.
1556
01:36:50,589 --> 01:36:54,341
Complete the picture by adding whatever
other figures and objects you think are necessary."
1557
01:36:54,426 --> 01:36:57,011
So he drew this girl here and this -
1558
01:36:58,680 --> 01:37:04,018
A week after this came in the mail,
this salesman showed up to grade our tests.
1559
01:37:04,102 --> 01:37:06,896
If you got a good grade on the test,
then you got the privilege...
1560
01:37:06,980 --> 01:37:10,357
of paying $400 to take the course.
1561
01:37:10,442 --> 01:37:13,694
And he just looked at Charles,
and was, like -
1562
01:37:13,778 --> 01:37:16,363
at Charles's - at what he had done,
and he was speechless.
1563
01:37:16,448 --> 01:37:18,365
He didn't know what to say.
1564
01:37:18,450 --> 01:37:22,161
He told me mine was very good and I had
a lot of potential and I should take the course.
1565
01:37:22,245 --> 01:37:24,997
But Charles,
he wouldn't even speak to him.
1566
01:37:26,124 --> 01:37:28,542
He was, uh...
1567
01:37:28,627 --> 01:37:30,711
pretty far gone at that point already.
1568
01:37:32,547 --> 01:37:35,716
This is some of his later work after he -
1569
01:37:35,800 --> 01:37:38,302
sort of the end of his comic period.
1570
01:37:38,386 --> 01:37:40,638
It's from 1961. He's about 18.
1571
01:37:40,722 --> 01:37:44,475
He started developing this weird
wrinkle technique in his drawing...
1572
01:37:44,559 --> 01:37:47,228
and it became stranger and stranger.
1573
01:37:47,312 --> 01:37:50,272
Had nothing to do
with the outside world at all.
1574
01:37:50,357 --> 01:37:53,400
Became more and more ingrown
in this way.
1575
01:37:53,485 --> 01:37:57,321
It had to do with his increasing
alienation from the world.
1576
01:37:57,405 --> 01:37:59,323
Isolation.
1577
01:37:59,407 --> 01:38:01,408
He never went to pen and ink either.
1578
01:38:01,493 --> 01:38:05,537
Never got beyond pencil and crayons,
you know.
1579
01:38:07,749 --> 01:38:11,126
This is some of the last
Treasure Island stuff he did.
1580
01:38:11,211 --> 01:38:13,212
This is, like, late ‘61.
1581
01:38:14,256 --> 01:38:15,923
[Chuckles]
1582
01:38:16,007 --> 01:38:20,844
It's sort of beautifully drawn, except
the wrinkle stuff really gets out of hand here.
1583
01:38:21,846 --> 01:38:25,182
[Laughing]
He got more and more obsessed with that.
1584
01:38:26,685 --> 01:38:29,770
It gets real dark-lookin'.
1585
01:38:29,854 --> 01:38:31,981
He had this fascination
with the relationship...
1586
01:38:32,065 --> 01:38:35,901
between the kid and Long John Silver,
the pirate character...
1587
01:38:35,986 --> 01:38:38,696
which he elaborated on endlessly.
1588
01:38:41,032 --> 01:38:44,952
This is one of our two-mans. You can see
that he's gradually added more and more text.
1589
01:38:45,036 --> 01:38:48,956
More and more -
The writing takes over. Look at that.
1590
01:38:49,040 --> 01:38:51,125
He just lost interest in drawing...
1591
01:38:51,209 --> 01:38:54,336
and then he just went
to this loony writing.
1592
01:38:59,092 --> 01:39:03,887
There's a certain phase of Charles's life
that he had this compulsive graphomania.
1593
01:39:03,972 --> 01:39:07,766
He did dozens of these notebooks.
He gave me a bunch of them.
1594
01:39:07,851 --> 01:39:10,644
People kind of found them fascinating.
The writing -
1595
01:39:10,770 --> 01:39:13,564
- This is upside down,
though it doesn't make any difference.
- Really?
1596
01:39:13,648 --> 01:39:16,984
[Laughs] I don't know whether
it's upside down or right side up.
1597
01:39:17,068 --> 01:39:18,736
This is an early one -
1598
01:39:18,820 --> 01:39:21,572
It started out, when he first
started doing it, it was readable...
1599
01:39:21,656 --> 01:39:24,325
and then it became
gradually less and less readable.
1600
01:39:26,411 --> 01:39:30,581
[Charles] What I definitely need
is some kind of external stimulation...
1601
01:39:30,665 --> 01:39:34,168
to sort of rejuvenate me
and get me going again.
1602
01:39:34,252 --> 01:39:37,838
But I don't know how I'm going
to be able to arrange this eventually.
1603
01:39:37,922 --> 01:39:39,548
I don't know.
1604
01:39:39,632 --> 01:39:42,092
I guess I'll have to start doing that
in a mental hospital.
1605
01:39:42,177 --> 01:39:43,552
[Robert Laughs]
1606
01:39:44,929 --> 01:39:48,015
[Robert] I remember this time we were
at Neal's house, and Mary was there.
1607
01:39:48,099 --> 01:39:50,100
Mary said, "I'm bored.
I'm gonna go take a bath."
1608
01:39:50,185 --> 01:39:53,228
So she got up and she went
in the bathroom and - and -
1609
01:39:53,313 --> 01:39:56,357
I told her not to do it.
I told her not to do it.
1610
01:39:56,441 --> 01:39:59,526
Maxon's eyes just sort of glazed over,
and he got all kind of red.
1611
01:39:59,611 --> 01:40:02,529
He just got up as if he was in a trance,
and he went and he -
1612
01:40:02,614 --> 01:40:04,740
he went up to the bathroom.
1613
01:40:04,824 --> 01:40:07,534
I said, "What are you doing?"
He pushed the bathroom door open.
1614
01:40:07,619 --> 01:40:11,205
Mary was standing there naked,
and she screamed.
1615
01:40:11,289 --> 01:40:13,290
Maxon? She slammed the door.
1616
01:40:13,375 --> 01:40:16,960
I said, "Maxon, come away from there."
I tried to pull him away from the door.
1617
01:40:17,045 --> 01:40:20,672
He was, like, completely in a trance.
He pushed the door open again.
1618
01:40:20,757 --> 01:40:23,592
Mary yelled again,
and then Maxon fell on the floor...
1619
01:40:23,676 --> 01:40:26,053
and had, like, about an eight-minute seizure.
1620
01:40:27,639 --> 01:40:31,683
So what's with these Oriental women
that you were into at this phase?
1621
01:40:31,768 --> 01:40:34,812
You were particularly attracted
to Oriental women.
1622
01:40:34,896 --> 01:40:37,231
[Maxon]
Yeah, I was, when I first started doing this.
1623
01:40:37,315 --> 01:40:39,233
[Robert]
When you were in that phase.
1624
01:40:39,317 --> 01:40:43,195
[Maxon] The phase of molesting women and
getting in trouble with cops and all that stuff.
1625
01:40:43,279 --> 01:40:45,197
[Zwigoff]
Were you actually raping these women?
1626
01:40:45,281 --> 01:40:47,116
No. I didn't get that much into it.
1627
01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:48,867
He'd just tweak them on the street
and run away.
1628
01:40:48,993 --> 01:40:53,414
You've got to do a lot of molesting
before you get to rape. But if you do
a couple years of molesting, you'll get to rape.
1629
01:40:55,708 --> 01:40:57,709
I started molesting when I was, like, 18.
1630
01:40:57,794 --> 01:41:01,213
I started with Chinese women for some
crazy reason, on subways in Philadelphia.
1631
01:41:01,297 --> 01:41:04,216
Then I went through different periods of it,
you know.
1632
01:41:04,300 --> 01:41:06,260
But I'm out of it. It's kind of like -
1633
01:41:06,344 --> 01:41:08,762
I don't know.
It's too much passion, it's too much animal.
1634
01:41:08,847 --> 01:41:12,099
Didn't they put you in some kind of -
in a psycho ward for a few weeks?
1635
01:41:12,183 --> 01:41:15,978
For a couple of weeks. Oh, man.
Two weeks on Haldol will cure anything.
1636
01:41:16,062 --> 01:41:19,398
You'll do anything they tell you
after two weeks on Haldol.
1637
01:41:19,482 --> 01:41:22,234
- [Laughing]
- For a sensible person, it's just terrible.
1638
01:41:22,318 --> 01:41:25,070
You get heavy into molesting,
it's a violent thing, like a crime thing.
1639
01:41:25,155 --> 01:41:28,449
So I get to the point
where I start pulling girls' shorts down.
1640
01:41:28,533 --> 01:41:32,161
I'm walking around this certain district
by the marina, this little shopping district.
1641
01:41:32,245 --> 01:41:35,831
There's this really beautiful
Jewish-looking girl...
1642
01:41:35,915 --> 01:41:38,041
with just, like, obscenely brief shorts on.
1643
01:41:38,126 --> 01:41:40,127
- She goes into this, uh -
- [Robert Laughs]
1644
01:41:40,211 --> 01:41:42,963
She goes into this drugstore, you know.
It's like I'm in a fit.
1645
01:41:43,047 --> 01:41:46,300
I gotta do this to this broad.
She's just too much, you know.
1646
01:41:46,384 --> 01:41:51,263
I gotta do something. I gotta risk my whole life
just to do something to this broad.
1647
01:41:51,347 --> 01:41:54,308
So I go in there -
cold sweat all over the place.
1648
01:41:54,392 --> 01:41:57,978
She doesn't know what's -
She's just casually looking over some shampoo.
1649
01:41:58,062 --> 01:42:00,731
I'm walking around there,
trying not to be obtrusive in this cold sweat.
1650
01:42:00,815 --> 01:42:02,858
She finally goes up to the counter.
1651
01:42:02,942 --> 01:42:05,652
It's like total complete, like,
personal struggle...
1652
01:42:05,737 --> 01:42:08,822
- about this moment I gotta pull this risky trip.
- Oh, my God!
1653
01:42:08,907 --> 01:42:12,117
So I walk up behind her
while she's paying for this fucking shampoo.
1654
01:42:12,202 --> 01:42:15,120
So I grab the bottom of her fuckin' shorts
and I just go -
1655
01:42:15,205 --> 01:42:20,167
Go all the way down,
and her ass pops out like a ripe peach.
1656
01:42:20,251 --> 01:42:24,171
- Oh, God.
- "Oh, Jesus Christ!" she says. "There's someone" -
1657
01:42:24,255 --> 01:42:29,009
Maybe 15 or 20 years from now, I'll be
more willing to talk about it, but not now.
1658
01:42:29,093 --> 01:42:31,553
- [Robert] I told Maxon about it.
- I've still got too many scruples.
1659
01:42:31,638 --> 01:42:34,973
- Did you tell Maxon about them?
- He just thinks you're putting it on.
1660
01:42:35,058 --> 01:42:38,310
Said, Charles confessed to me
when we were adults...
1661
01:42:38,394 --> 01:42:41,522
that there was a while when we were teenagers
that he had to stifle the urge...
1662
01:42:41,606 --> 01:42:43,565
to stick a butcher knife through my heart.
1663
01:42:43,650 --> 01:42:45,651
Like, he'd be laying in bed at night...
1664
01:42:45,735 --> 01:42:49,363
fighting the urge to go down
to that kitchen and get a knife out.
1665
01:42:49,447 --> 01:42:53,867
Or go down to the basement,
get an ax and bash your skull in with it.
1666
01:42:55,453 --> 01:42:57,621
I told Maxon this,
and he said, "Aah, I don't think so."
1667
01:42:57,705 --> 01:43:01,166
- He didn't believe it.
He thought it was all part of the act.
- He thinks it's part of an act.
1668
01:43:01,251 --> 01:43:04,211
- He thinks the whole thing's an act.
- He thinks my whole mental sickness is an act.
1669
01:43:04,295 --> 01:43:07,381
He thinks you've really got it made,
that you really have a cushy position in things...
1670
01:43:07,465 --> 01:43:10,217
because you got the mother's love
and he didn't.
1671
01:43:10,301 --> 01:43:12,261
That's what he thinks.
1672
01:43:12,345 --> 01:43:15,889
He must think I have certain reasons
for putting on this act.
1673
01:43:15,974 --> 01:43:18,350
What does he think those reasons are?
1674
01:43:18,434 --> 01:43:22,646
I don't think he thinks it out too deeply.
He's just reacting. He's in a state of reacting.
1675
01:43:22,730 --> 01:43:26,775
He still has all this anger and resentment
because he wasn't loved by the mother.
1676
01:43:26,859 --> 01:43:30,237
- I know what the homicidal
tendencies stem from now.
- [Zwigoff] You do?
1677
01:43:30,321 --> 01:43:33,407
It stemmed from
an excessive degree of narcissism.
1678
01:43:33,491 --> 01:43:38,203
It seems to me that all I have to do is overcome
this excessive degree of narcissism...
1679
01:43:38,288 --> 01:43:40,914
and my homicidal tendencies will go away.
1680
01:43:40,999 --> 01:43:44,334
- [Robert] You still have these tendencies?
- No, they're pretty well gone by now.
1681
01:43:44,419 --> 01:43:46,253
You think it's the drugs, or what?
1682
01:43:46,337 --> 01:43:50,591
[Zwigoff] What's the connection between
narcissism and the homicidal tendencies?
1683
01:43:50,675 --> 01:43:54,177
Well, when narcissism is wounded...
1684
01:43:54,262 --> 01:43:56,763
it wants to strike back at the person
who wounded it.
1685
01:43:56,848 --> 01:43:59,433
- [Robert] Did I wound your narcissism?
- Many, many times.
1686
01:43:59,517 --> 01:44:02,477
- Oh! Oh, God.
- Many, many times.
1687
01:44:27,712 --> 01:44:30,547
Uh, I made this bed of nails 'cause
I've developed myself in meditation...
1688
01:44:30,632 --> 01:44:32,883
to the point where I have
to use a bed of nails.
1689
01:44:32,967 --> 01:44:36,470
I'm not a very great expert at the nails,
so I cover a portion of the nails...
1690
01:44:36,554 --> 01:44:40,057
with this very thin old bandana
so it's not too painful to me.
1691
01:44:40,141 --> 01:44:44,478
I have to sort of like regulate
the amount of pain that I take with it.
1692
01:44:55,198 --> 01:44:57,658
[Robert]
How long can you sit on those at a time?
1693
01:44:57,742 --> 01:45:01,119
I can sit a couple of hours like this.
This is quite easy.
1694
01:45:01,204 --> 01:45:03,955
So the cloth sort of
cleans your intestines out on the inside.
1695
01:45:04,040 --> 01:45:07,959
Or else you might say
that it gratifies your intestines.
1696
01:45:08,044 --> 01:45:12,756
Every six weeks, very regularly,
I have to pass it through my entire body.
1697
01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:14,800
And, uh...
1698
01:45:14,884 --> 01:45:18,345
it takes three days
for it to come out the other side.
1699
01:45:18,429 --> 01:45:20,681
You don't take the nails
out on the street, right?
1700
01:45:20,765 --> 01:45:24,351
They're prejudiced against people - like,
in the financial district and stuff like that -
1701
01:45:24,435 --> 01:45:26,770
against someone praying in the street.
1702
01:45:26,854 --> 01:45:30,023
You go out with your beggar bowl,
like, just about every day?
1703
01:45:30,108 --> 01:45:33,568
I do that every day. I do it every day, once a day.
It's, like, part of my whole thing.
1704
01:45:33,653 --> 01:45:36,363
At a certain time of day,
I have to go out and meet the public.
1705
01:45:36,447 --> 01:45:38,865
- Put the bowl down, lock in and do it.
- It's your job.
1706
01:45:38,950 --> 01:45:40,617
Yeah, it's a job. It's a dirty job.
1707
01:45:40,702 --> 01:45:44,871
- How long has he had this bed of nails?
- A couple years.
1708
01:45:44,956 --> 01:45:48,375
He sits on it how many times a day?
About three or four times a day?
1709
01:45:48,459 --> 01:45:51,378
- About once a day for a couple hours.
- Does he ever sleep on it?
1710
01:45:51,462 --> 01:45:54,214
No. It's not big enough to sleep on.
He just sits on it.
1711
01:45:54,298 --> 01:45:57,551
- Where did he get this bed of nails?
Did he buy it at some store?
- He made it.
1712
01:45:57,635 --> 01:46:00,387
- You can't buy a bed of nails.
- Just a minute. What is it?
1713
01:46:00,471 --> 01:46:02,514
- What?
- [Mother] How you holding up?
1714
01:46:02,598 --> 01:46:05,142
Not too badly.
1715
01:46:05,226 --> 01:46:07,144
[Robert Chuckling]
1716
01:46:08,312 --> 01:46:11,314
Remember, Mother,
I'm under the influence of medication.
1717
01:46:11,399 --> 01:46:12,899
[Laughs]
1718
01:46:12,984 --> 01:46:16,903
And that's probably helping me through
this thing to a certain extent anyway.
1719
01:46:16,988 --> 01:46:19,823
- [Zwigoff] When did you start taking medication?
- About 20 years ago.
1720
01:46:19,907 --> 01:46:23,243
If only it would do something
about the inner anguish and pain.
1721
01:46:23,327 --> 01:46:26,246
Wasn't that after you attempted suicide,
you started taking those drugs?
1722
01:46:26,330 --> 01:46:29,082
Yeah, I started taking it
after one of my suicide attempts.
1723
01:46:29,167 --> 01:46:32,919
- You drank a bottle of furniture polish.
- Yeah. That was the first time.
1724
01:46:33,004 --> 01:46:37,799
I drank a bottle of furniture polish
and took an overdose of sleeping pills.
1725
01:46:37,884 --> 01:46:40,886
But then I chickened out at the last minute
and went downstairs...
1726
01:46:40,970 --> 01:46:44,973
and asked my mother to take me to the hospital
so I could have my stomach pumped.
1727
01:46:45,057 --> 01:46:47,559
Jesus!
[Chuckling]
1728
01:46:50,021 --> 01:46:52,814
There were about two or three
other attempts besides that one.
1729
01:46:52,899 --> 01:46:55,984
This morning, you were talking about
getting a lobotomy. Jesus Christ.
1730
01:46:56,068 --> 01:46:59,404
- Yes, well - Why not?
- Why not?
1731
01:47:00,948 --> 01:47:02,866
God. Grim. It's grim.
1732
01:47:02,950 --> 01:47:08,455
Charles told me - He confessed to me that
when he first saw Treasure Island in 1950...
1733
01:47:08,539 --> 01:47:13,251
he developed this crush on Bobby Driscoll,
and it never went away.
1734
01:47:13,336 --> 01:47:15,962
Bobby Driscoll's the kid
who plays Jim Hawkins.
1735
01:47:16,047 --> 01:47:20,801
And the root of this whole obsession
was this kid that was in the movie.
1736
01:47:20,885 --> 01:47:25,388
He was drawing this Bobby Driscoll,
this kid, you know, endlessly.
1737
01:47:26,390 --> 01:47:28,642
And when he told me this, I was shocked.
1738
01:47:28,726 --> 01:47:31,436
I had no idea that's what it was about.
1739
01:47:31,521 --> 01:47:34,648
I guess it's caused him
a lot of torment in his life, you know.
1740
01:47:34,732 --> 01:47:39,319
He's never been able
to have any real sexual life at all.
1741
01:47:39,403 --> 01:47:41,279
He's never had sex.
1742
01:47:42,281 --> 01:47:44,991
- I don't think any of them got out, Mother.
- [Mother Chattering]
1743
01:47:45,076 --> 01:47:47,661
The other night when she yelled out,
"Get the hell out of here!"
1744
01:47:47,745 --> 01:47:49,871
and I said, "Who's she talking to?"
what'd you say?
1745
01:47:49,956 --> 01:47:52,666
I said, "She's being pursued
by invisible enemies."
1746
01:47:55,253 --> 01:47:58,380
- Who does she think they are?
- I don't know exactly.
1747
01:47:58,464 --> 01:48:01,883
- It's sort of hard to tell.
- You - You get the residue of her -
1748
01:48:01,968 --> 01:48:03,635
- [Mother] Charles!
- What?
1749
01:48:03,719 --> 01:48:06,096
- Fix that curtain in the hallway.
- Okay.
1750
01:48:09,559 --> 01:48:12,811
- Brought the whole thing down.
You can't do that.
- [Robert] The curtain in the hallway.
1751
01:48:14,397 --> 01:48:17,941
♪♪ [Orchestra: Dramatic]
1752
01:48:18,025 --> 01:48:19,943
[Gunshot]
1753
01:48:27,702 --> 01:48:29,953
♪♪ [Continues]
1754
01:48:31,789 --> 01:48:34,624
- [Clanging]
- [Whistling]
1755
01:48:38,212 --> 01:48:40,130
- [Sophie] Come here.
- What?
1756
01:48:40,214 --> 01:48:42,132
Come here.
1757
01:48:43,634 --> 01:48:45,552
[Jesse]
Let me see that there, please?
1758
01:48:45,636 --> 01:48:47,554
Thanks.
1759
01:48:51,017 --> 01:48:53,018
Let me show you the -
1760
01:48:54,145 --> 01:48:56,146
I did that one, and I did that one.
1761
01:48:56,230 --> 01:48:59,774
- That looks good.
- Let me show you what one it is.
1762
01:49:01,903 --> 01:49:03,820
Dad. [Squeaks]
1763
01:49:05,656 --> 01:49:08,074
This is my character, Dad.
1764
01:49:08,159 --> 01:49:10,827
- That's your character?
- Yeah, yeah.
1765
01:49:10,912 --> 01:49:12,913
- What are biscuit teeth?
- Her dog!
1766
01:49:14,624 --> 01:49:16,583
Biscuit Teeth.
1767
01:49:16,667 --> 01:49:19,169
- That's her dog?
- Yeah!
1768
01:49:19,253 --> 01:49:21,630
It's good the way it is.
1769
01:49:21,714 --> 01:49:24,716
- Give me a break.
- There. Isn’t that a lot better? Look.
1770
01:49:25,760 --> 01:49:27,677
Much better.
1771
01:49:28,888 --> 01:49:31,973
Everything has to be black and white.
Everything has to be old-fashioned.
1772
01:49:32,058 --> 01:49:36,353
[Laughing]
No. It just looks better like that.
1773
01:49:36,437 --> 01:49:39,814
The old man, I think,
took off pretty much for good...
1774
01:49:39,899 --> 01:49:44,110
when I was probably, I don't know,
five or six years old, I guess.
1775
01:49:44,195 --> 01:49:47,113
I can't really remember
that period of time very well...
1776
01:49:47,198 --> 01:49:49,658
but I didn't really see him
too regularly after that.
1777
01:49:49,742 --> 01:49:53,411
You know, he was over here, really,
for the most part. Madison, Dixon.
1778
01:49:53,496 --> 01:49:55,538
Kind of gone most of the time.
1779
01:49:55,623 --> 01:49:59,459
He has sort of - I think he has
sort of a hard time emotionally.
1780
01:49:59,543 --> 01:50:01,461
You know, like he can't - I'll -
1781
01:50:01,545 --> 01:50:05,465
Sometimes I'll just feel like I want to
express affection to the old man, you know.
1782
01:50:05,549 --> 01:50:09,177
Like I feel like I want to put my arm around him
or shake his hand or something...
1783
01:50:09,261 --> 01:50:11,179
or get close in some way.
1784
01:50:11,263 --> 01:50:13,932
He can't do it, you know?
He can't do that.
1785
01:50:18,020 --> 01:50:20,480
- How tight?
- Uh, pretty tight.
1786
01:50:20,564 --> 01:50:23,066
Like that kind of thing?
1787
01:50:23,150 --> 01:50:25,360
What a disaster this is,
taking these records out.
1788
01:50:25,444 --> 01:50:28,279
I was planning just to live here till I died.
[Laughs]
1789
01:50:28,364 --> 01:50:32,409
I didn't want to move out of this place
and move all these damn records.
1790
01:50:33,703 --> 01:50:35,662
[Jesse]
That'll teach you to have a hobby.
1791
01:50:35,746 --> 01:50:39,833
Jesus. Be careful with those.
You break 'em, I'll kill you. God.
1792
01:50:39,917 --> 01:50:43,211
Oy. My copy of Frank Bunch
and His Fuzzy Wuzzies.
1793
01:50:43,295 --> 01:50:45,255
[Jesse Laughs]
1794
01:50:46,257 --> 01:50:48,675
Put those over there on that futon.
1795
01:50:48,759 --> 01:50:51,261
- [Tape Ripping]
- Tight as you can.
1796
01:50:51,345 --> 01:50:53,680
Pull it out, and I'll cut it.
1797
01:50:53,764 --> 01:50:56,182
Jesus, that wife of mine.
1798
01:50:56,267 --> 01:50:59,436
Getting me to move to France,
for God's sake.
1799
01:50:59,520 --> 01:51:03,356
But it's too late now.
The die is cast.
1800
01:51:03,441 --> 01:51:05,942
♪♪ [Ragtime, Slow Tempo]
1801
01:51:39,310 --> 01:51:41,311
♪♪ [Piano Continues]
1802
01:52:28,692 --> 01:52:30,652
♪♪ [Ends]
1803
01:52:44,959 --> 01:52:47,710
A lot of the stuff is in here,
and some of it's in there.
1804
01:52:47,795 --> 01:52:50,296
So I guess pulling up to here
would be the best thing.
1805
01:52:50,381 --> 01:52:52,799
- Or I don't know.
- Okay. We'll have to take a look.
1806
01:52:52,883 --> 01:52:55,552
- We got some plywood
we can put right down here.
- Okay. Good.
1807
01:52:55,636 --> 01:52:59,722
She's having a ball out there,
telling those guys what to do.
1808
01:53:03,853 --> 01:53:07,564
God. Giant trucks are here, everything.
1809
01:53:07,648 --> 01:53:09,315
It's embarrassing.
1810
01:53:14,697 --> 01:53:16,698
[Robert]
Oy, yoy, yoy, yoy, yoy.
1811
01:53:16,782 --> 01:53:20,910
You think those guys look like they're gonna
be sensitive to my record collection?
1812
01:53:20,995 --> 01:53:23,788
[Laughs]
Bunch of football jocks.
1813
01:53:23,873 --> 01:53:27,876
"What do ya got here?
A bunch of old albums or somethin'?"
1814
01:53:32,214 --> 01:53:34,424
[Zwigoff] Is there anything you're
gonna miss about this country?
1815
01:53:34,508 --> 01:53:38,344
A certain relaxed quality that people
have here that Europeans don't have.
1816
01:53:38,429 --> 01:53:41,681
- They're much more formal and everything.
- America's a big "slobville."
1817
01:53:41,765 --> 01:53:46,102
Yeah. It's, like, I went up to get
my friend's belongings up in Eureka.
1818
01:53:46,187 --> 01:53:49,397
It was at these people's house.
I went through their living room.
1819
01:53:49,481 --> 01:53:53,568
They had this couch that - this chair
that was a gold plastic football helmet...
1820
01:53:53,652 --> 01:53:56,196
with a red and blue padded seat.
1821
01:53:56,280 --> 01:54:01,242
They had, like, these double-wide couches
and a four-foot TV screen with Nintendo.
1822
01:54:01,327 --> 01:54:03,244
It was a Ninja Turtle game on there.
1823
01:54:03,329 --> 01:54:07,123
This, like, giant, fat teenager was just
sitting there, mesmerized at this TV set.
1824
01:54:07,208 --> 01:54:09,459
- You don't see too much of that in France.
- Unbelievable.
1825
01:54:09,543 --> 01:54:11,294
[Aline]
Yeah.
1826
01:54:11,378 --> 01:54:14,214
[Zwigoff] Robert, how do you feel
about leaving your family here?
1827
01:54:14,298 --> 01:54:18,509
I don't - I don't have any feelings
about it one way or the other.
1828
01:54:18,594 --> 01:54:21,763
- What do I care?
- Never see that mother or brother anyway.
1829
01:54:21,847 --> 01:54:23,890
- He talks to them, like, once a year.
- Yeah.
1830
01:54:23,974 --> 01:54:25,892
[Zwigoff]
But what about Jesse?
1831
01:54:25,976 --> 01:54:28,186
Jesse. He's kind of devastated
that we're leaving.
1832
01:54:28,270 --> 01:54:31,606
But on the other hand, we told him
he could come and stay with us over there...
1833
01:54:31,690 --> 01:54:33,691
so, you know,
he's kind of thrilled about that.
1834
01:54:33,776 --> 01:54:38,112
We gave him $500 for plane fare,
so he's going to come over there.
1835
01:54:38,197 --> 01:54:41,699
- How about Max?
- Yeah? Max I feel kind of bad about...
1836
01:54:41,784 --> 01:54:46,037
'cause he doesn't have
too many other people to talk to.
1837
01:54:46,121 --> 01:54:49,540
I'm probably his closest human relationship
in the world.
1838
01:54:53,963 --> 01:54:56,506
- These all have records in 'em, huh?
- Yes.
1839
01:54:56,590 --> 01:54:58,883
Those 78s you were talking about?
1840
01:54:58,968 --> 01:55:01,302
Yep.
1841
01:55:03,597 --> 01:55:06,599
So I got no patience
for Hollywood bullshit.
1842
01:55:08,060 --> 01:55:11,604
Well, I -
You know, I can't think in those terms.
1843
01:55:11,689 --> 01:55:16,192
I've already got so much of my life wasted
with those people down there.
1844
01:55:16,277 --> 01:55:20,154
Animation? Forget it. No.
I'm not interested in it at all.
1845
01:55:20,239 --> 01:55:24,284
There hasn't been a decent animated film
made in this country since about 1940.
1846
01:55:24,368 --> 01:55:27,578
No, you're not -
Cherry Poptart is an abomination.
1847
01:55:27,663 --> 01:55:30,623
Larry Welz is an idiot.
It's gonna be a piece of garbage.
1848
01:55:30,708 --> 01:55:33,543
I'm not interested. All right.
1849
01:55:33,627 --> 01:55:35,545
So long.
1850
01:55:35,629 --> 01:55:37,880
[Exhaling]
1851
01:55:37,965 --> 01:55:39,924
Jesus.
1852
01:55:40,009 --> 01:55:42,802
That was a three-way conference call
with this guy Charles Webb...
1853
01:55:42,886 --> 01:55:44,804
who's a friend of Dan O'Neill's.
1854
01:55:44,888 --> 01:55:47,223
They're putting together
the Cherry Poptart film.
1855
01:55:47,308 --> 01:55:49,976
They got on the phone
with some guy in L.A.
1856
01:55:50,060 --> 01:55:52,645
Some guy - "Hey! I'm your kind of guy.
1857
01:55:52,730 --> 01:55:54,897
Remember Tommy Toilet? I loved it!"
1858
01:55:58,736 --> 01:56:01,279
- Jesus.
- They want to make a movie or something?
1859
01:56:01,363 --> 01:56:03,823
A Natural film, of course.
1860
01:56:03,907 --> 01:56:06,743
It's a go project.
1861
01:56:06,827 --> 01:56:08,745
Jesus.
1862
01:56:09,830 --> 01:56:15,043
This is how I felt after that last hell week
of you filming me here.
1863
01:56:16,045 --> 01:56:19,672
"How perfectly goddamned delightful
it all is, to be sure."
1864
01:56:19,757 --> 01:56:23,009
When I was a kid, if I ever started
showing any enthusiasm for anything...
1865
01:56:23,093 --> 01:56:25,094
by brother Charles would always say...
1866
01:56:25,179 --> 01:56:29,057
"How perfectly goddamned delightful
it all is, to be sure."
1867
01:56:29,141 --> 01:56:31,434
Always take the wind out of my sails.
1868
01:56:31,518 --> 01:56:34,395
Even though I don't see him often,
whenever I'm with him...
1869
01:56:34,480 --> 01:56:37,607
it revives that real keen awareness of that...
1870
01:56:37,691 --> 01:56:43,196
of this being very removed
or, you know, extremely separated...
1871
01:56:43,280 --> 01:56:45,782
from the rest of humanity
and the world in general...
1872
01:56:45,866 --> 01:56:48,493
which I kind of like -
I like that feeling.
1873
01:56:48,577 --> 01:56:52,455
"How perfectly
goddamned delightful it all is."
1874
01:57:25,906 --> 01:57:29,909
[Mother] Fix it, Charles.
Put that towel up the way I had it.
1875
01:57:29,993 --> 01:57:31,994
No, first put the towel up.
1876
01:57:33,789 --> 01:57:36,416
Watch you don't pull the shade
all the way off the thing.
1877
01:57:36,500 --> 01:57:38,418
I won't.
1878
01:57:40,921 --> 01:57:44,257
[Mother] Can't come in
and disrupt people's house like this.
1879
01:57:44,341 --> 01:57:47,760
- Where are the babies?
- I don't know. I think the little girl is in my room.
1880
01:57:47,845 --> 01:57:50,847
♪♪ [Piano: Ragtime]
1881
02:00:06,733 --> 02:00:09,235
♪♪ [Ends]
172170
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.