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Hello, this is a
collect call from an
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inmate from the Banner County Jail.
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Hello?
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How you doing?
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All right, sweetheart.
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How are you?
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Not so good.
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I know, baby.
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I have to come home.
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I have to come home.
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Baby, I know that. I'm sorry;
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you're going to have
to stay strong.
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Are you saying your prayers?
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Yeah. But, Mom,
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I want to come home.
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Baby, I promise you that we're
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working on that, okay?
I promise you.
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When can I come home?
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Huh?
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When can I come home?
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- Sweetheart.
- Can you try?
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Honey, we're
trying everything we can,
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I promise you. We're trying
everything we can.
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There's nothing more in
the world than I want my
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boy home with me. Okay? We're
doing everything we can here.
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You know how much I love you, baby?
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The prosecutors
are trying to get me
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life with no parole.
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Huh?
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Should minors who
commit murder be sentenced to
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life without parole?
This is a crucial question the
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Supreme Court is going
to be deciding tomorrow,
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that 38 states currently allow life
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without parole for minors
who commit murder,
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but is it constitutional?
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So the court comes
to a fork in the road.
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Make a complete ban on life
without parole for adolescents
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or set an age limit?
Many lives hang in the balance.
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Their brains
are not fully developed,
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they will change, they will
grow. Is this something that we
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can judge them for for
the rest of their lives?
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After Bar was questioned by police,
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he was charged with the
12-year-old's murder.
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Anyone who knows to muffle the gun
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so nobody else hears it has
the mind of an 18-year-old.
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I think everyone is
more than the worst
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thing they've ever
done and I think that policy
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makers can make decisions
about how to punish them.
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But I think children
are uniquely more
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than their worst act, they
have quintessential qualities
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and characteristics that a
decent society, maturing
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society, an evolved society
we believe is
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constitutionally obligated
to recognize and protect.
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High school is a very hard time.
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I had no idea who I was. I had
no idea where I fit in
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among my peers, and I thought
that I was a nobody at my high
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school and I wanted
to be known. And so I tried all
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these different identities and
I couldn't, you know, find an
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identity that I could not be
pushed out of, I guess.
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So I got into Columbine.
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We saw these two kids, they were
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white and they had dark hair.
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upwards of a dozen people
were injured and running out of...
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Columbine kind of created
a subculture for
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disenfranchised kids
who don't fit in anywhere.
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I saw, at the time,
they transcended their high
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school, for the hour that they
did what they did, they were in
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the spotlight and that's
what I wanted.
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I wanted to be in the spotlight.
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Actually I was really
happy to do it.
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Oh yeah?
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Hey, look, it's Cassie.
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Hey, look, I don't know her.
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Hello, Cassie.
I'm getting you on tape, okay?
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Say hi, please.
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Hi.
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Okay, see you.
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When I first met Cassie
Stoddart, I think that the first
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memory I have of her is
we were joking around
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in class and she was
smiling and that's vivid, the
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image I have in my mind now, is
I can't get it out of my mind.
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And, oh, man,
it's hard to talk about...
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but, in the beginning
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she was just a nice person
and she...
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you know... sorry.
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I was attracted to her.
I thought she was a special
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person but she
started going out with this
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other kid I knew in
high school, and it kind of
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struck me hard and I was like,
"Okay, so, I am a loser."
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Wait, have you seen Torey? He's
supposed to meet me here at 7:30
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and it's 8:19. He's an hour late.
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You don't even care, do you? Okay.
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I met Torey Adamcik
in sophomore year.
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He started talking about the
movie "Scream," how it would be
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cool to actually do a
"Scream" type crime.
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And I was like, "Okay."
He's like, "Have you ever
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thought about that? " " Not
really. I've thought about other
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things like Columbine." And he
really was into that and I was
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like, "Well I could either be
alone or I could join his
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plan and be with him and not
be alone."
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Torey got there;
there was about eight
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months where we would come
up every three weeks. And we'd
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leave right after work on
Friday, drive up all night, come
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stay in the hotel. We
wouldn't miss a visit or
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anything. Torey is a
good kid and we enjoy
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the visits, we have a good time
and Torey is the
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same person he was
before he went in.
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My mom still
treats me like a mom and
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she tells me to
brush my teeth as she is leaving
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and exiting and tells me to
go to bed early or whatever,
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just the typical stuff but, I
don't know, I think they're
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just worried about me.
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Just really good kid.
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Torey is a good
kid and Torey is just a
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kind, kind, kind person
and we're still family.
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He's still every bit as much a
part of our family as before.
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I remember the first
article I read about my case.
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Jeez, they made me sound
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like this brutal, cold,
psychopathic killer.
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They were talking about Brian.
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They were making you
just like Brian.
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They put us like
as the same person.
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They lumped them together.
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I only hung out with him
for six weeks before this
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happened.
I think it's crazy how...
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the last week of me being on the
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street and being free really has
affected the rest of my life.
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If you were to watch that video
and nothing had happened,
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it would literally be a joke.
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00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,816
I don't know if it was
my... it was probably my fault;
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I should have seen
it but I just... he did
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not seem capable of
something like this, and it
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completely caught me off guard.
I was just in... I don't know;
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I just couldn't believe it.
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There should be no law against
killing people. I know it's a
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wrong thing but...
Hell.
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You restrict somebody from it,
they're going to want it more.
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We found our victim and, sad
as it may be, she's our friend.
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But you know what?
We all have to make sacrifices.
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Our first victim is
going to be Cassie Stoddart.
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She's going to be alone
in a big, dark house out
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in the middle of nowhere.
How perfect can you get?
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00:10:00,934 --> 00:10:02,401
Holy shit, dude.
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00:10:02,402 --> 00:10:05,061
- I'm horny just thinking about it.
- Hell yeah.
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I don't know if either
of us would have
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done it if we were alone.
We fed off each other, I guess,
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and it was a formula for
disaster in the end.
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The time is 9:50,
September 22nd, 2006.
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We know there are lots
of doors and there are
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lots of places to hide. I
unlocked the back doors.
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It's all unlocked.
Now we just got to wait.
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I was actually the individual
who snuck downstairs and
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locked the basement door.
And it's that one choice where
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I was just kind of going along
with it. I really didn't stop
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and say, "Why am I doing this?"
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I just did it, and that one thing
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00:11:01,795 --> 00:11:08,934
that I did started this whole
thing, and that's something
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00:11:08,935 --> 00:11:15,041
that is hard to deal with
because all I had to do
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was just not do that and this
may have never happened.
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Cassie was there alone, and we
both had masks on.
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He walks up and tells me,
"You do something scary
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that's going to freak her out."
And I'm like, "Okay."
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So I grab a door and I open it
and I slam it. And then
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00:12:07,860 --> 00:12:10,629
we just kind of go into the
room and the crime happens,
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and we stabbed her.
I really don't have a lot of
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vivid memories of
the actual incident.
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00:12:25,745 --> 00:12:28,246
I have what they call...
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flash bulb images of that.
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She's breathing hard and
her eyes are open,
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and she's looking off someplace
else and, uh...
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And then I...
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I remember...
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so many, like...
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00:12:57,109 --> 00:13:01,514
She wasn't screaming but in
my head I could hear that.
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00:13:01,515 --> 00:13:06,250
And I know she screamed before
it happened to her, and uh...
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00:13:08,287 --> 00:13:15,093
but in my memories I
have, she's screaming.
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Okay.
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When it did happen,
I was just too shocked
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to do anything and I just ran
from it and hid from it
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and I made a lot of mistakes.
But...
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they were, I don't know.
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I just think, I look at myself
now and I'm 21 and I think
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00:14:02,909 --> 00:14:08,581
how stupid I was at 16, and I
just think how I feel like I'm
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00:14:08,582 --> 00:14:11,516
paying for somebody else's
mistakes at this point.
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00:14:45,351 --> 00:14:49,855
When I was 13 years old,
I had a friend who was over, he
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00:14:49,856 --> 00:14:54,093
was hanging out at the house and
my mom just went and left on me.
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He said, "Man, you mom's really
a bitch. You should kill her."
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00:14:59,032 --> 00:15:03,135
And I didn't really take it
seriously, but that's the first
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00:15:03,136 --> 00:15:05,804
time the thought was planted in
my head and I started escaping
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00:15:05,805 --> 00:15:09,108
into that daydream. When things
got really bad I could say,
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00:15:09,109 --> 00:15:12,011
"Oh, yeah. One day, they're
going to be gone."
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00:15:12,012 --> 00:15:15,214
In the early
morning hours of December 17,
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00:15:15,215 --> 00:15:19,151
15-year-old Jacob Ind
slaughtered his mother and
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00:15:19,152 --> 00:15:20,619
stepfather in their Woodland Park
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00:15:20,620 --> 00:15:22,821
home with the help of a friend.
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00:15:22,822 --> 00:15:25,146
Jacob Ind reportedly
tried to block out the screaming.
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00:15:25,147 --> 00:15:27,660
His appearance
is that of a studious prep
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00:15:27,661 --> 00:15:31,730
school student. As they say,
Jacob Ind was cold and cruel,
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00:15:31,731 --> 00:15:34,767
that he recruited schoolmate
Gabrial Adams to do the job.
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00:15:34,768 --> 00:15:37,770
The kid was looney tunes
and I just knew he would
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00:15:37,771 --> 00:15:42,074
help so I asked for his help.
I just didn't want anything
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00:15:42,075 --> 00:15:46,011
directly to do with it. I just
wanted the problem solved,
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00:15:46,012 --> 00:15:48,147
things to be gone.
I didn't want to see it,
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00:15:48,148 --> 00:15:51,150
I didn't want to hear it;
I wanted nothing to do with it.
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00:15:51,151 --> 00:15:54,752
I just wanted him gone, and that's
what I thought would happen.
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00:15:57,389 --> 00:16:01,327
I was sleeping when I
heard the gunshots go off.
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00:16:01,328 --> 00:16:08,734
The .22 that I gave Gabrial
really didn't have enough of a
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00:16:08,735 --> 00:16:12,004
punch to get the job done.
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00:16:12,005 --> 00:16:17,276
Went down the hall and saw
their door was open
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00:16:17,277 --> 00:16:22,013
to their bedroom. It was like
1:00 in the morning and...
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00:16:24,483 --> 00:16:28,988
I saw my stepdad.
He was bleeding and...
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00:16:28,989 --> 00:16:31,255
He said he'd been shot.
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00:16:32,424 --> 00:16:36,929
So I went back to my room and
got some pepper spray and
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00:16:36,930 --> 00:16:39,865
I came back and I sprayed him
with the with pepper spray,
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00:16:39,866 --> 00:16:45,804
my mom and stepdad. And I went
into their bathroom and closed
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00:16:45,805 --> 00:16:50,909
the door and I figured, "Okay,
maybe this can end. Maybe this
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00:16:50,910 --> 00:16:55,247
can be over by now."
And it kept going and going,
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00:16:55,248 --> 00:16:57,916
I couldn't see anything but I
heard that there was still a
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00:16:57,917 --> 00:17:04,089
ruckus. I just wanted it to be
over. And so eventually
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00:17:04,090 --> 00:17:10,329
the .357 was in the closet
in the bathroom,
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00:17:10,330 --> 00:17:14,233
and I grabbed that and loaded
it with one bullet.
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00:17:14,234 --> 00:17:18,337
And I opened up the door and I
saw my stepdad there,
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00:17:18,338 --> 00:17:20,039
slumped kind of against a wall
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00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:25,476
and I shot him in the head
and he fell over.
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00:17:28,914 --> 00:17:34,019
I turned around and went back,
put another bullet, and my mom
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00:17:34,020 --> 00:17:35,753
was there.
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00:17:38,157 --> 00:17:41,527
I shot at her and I missed her.
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00:17:41,528 --> 00:17:43,462
And...
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00:17:43,463 --> 00:17:49,134
So I turned around and went back,
put another bullet, and went to
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00:17:49,135 --> 00:17:53,138
shoot her again and she
asked me, "Why?" Because at
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00:17:53,139 --> 00:17:58,143
that point it dawned on her what
was going on. And I told her
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00:17:58,144 --> 00:18:03,114
because she was cruel, and I
shot her, and she fell over.
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00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:21,500
I was just so, I guess,
disturbed by what I saw.
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00:18:21,501 --> 00:18:26,470
I grabbed my alarm clock,
went to the downstairs couch,
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00:18:27,706 --> 00:18:31,276
and I just laid there and
I couldn't think.
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00:18:31,277 --> 00:18:35,946
And I said, "Man, I fucked up.
Fucked up so bad."
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00:18:53,987 --> 00:18:56,068
Our organization is the
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00:18:56,069 --> 00:19:02,474
National Organization of Victims
of Juvenile Lifers, NOVJL.
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00:19:02,475 --> 00:19:05,544
I'm the president of NOVJL,
Jennifer Bishop-Jenkins.
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00:19:05,545 --> 00:19:09,314
Three of my family members were
murdered in Chicago in 1990 by a
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00:19:09,315 --> 00:19:14,352
teenager who is serving three life
without parole sentences in Illinois.
242
00:19:17,222 --> 00:19:19,625
He got mandatory
sentences for Nancy and Richard
243
00:19:19,626 --> 00:19:22,628
but for the baby he got
an optional life sentence.
244
00:19:22,629 --> 00:19:25,564
Nancy was crossing her arms
over her pregnant belly.
245
00:19:25,565 --> 00:19:29,001
He pointed the gun and
fired, and he hit it.
246
00:19:29,002 --> 00:19:30,269
Hi, Jenny.
247
00:19:30,270 --> 00:19:31,537
Hi, Nancy.
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00:19:31,538 --> 00:19:32,971
How are you?
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00:19:32,972 --> 00:19:40,045
My ability to be
Nancy's sister in the world is
250
00:19:40,046 --> 00:19:46,318
entirely about she was murdered.
I cannot be her sister
251
00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:50,956
and not care about that. The
discovery that there was a
252
00:19:50,957 --> 00:19:55,127
movement to free Nancy and
Richard's killer was shocking
253
00:19:55,128 --> 00:19:58,964
and horrifying to me. I actually
think that that has motivated me
254
00:19:58,965 --> 00:20:02,668
more than anything, never to
have any legal finality at all
255
00:20:02,669 --> 00:20:07,673
to your case. I was awake all
night for four straight months
256
00:20:07,674 --> 00:20:09,942
I was so traumatized by this.
257
00:20:09,943 --> 00:20:13,445
I cried all the time, I was worried about
it, I couldn't think, I just thought,
258
00:20:13,446 --> 00:20:15,981
"God, if I have to spend
the rest of my life like this
259
00:20:15,982 --> 00:20:18,550
and my children and my mother,
don't you care about the victims
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00:20:18,551 --> 00:20:21,320
at all? Doesn't this
worry you at all?"
261
00:20:21,321 --> 00:20:24,456
It's at that point that I
realized how absolutely
262
00:20:24,457 --> 00:20:29,627
clueless they are about
the cost of victimization.
263
00:20:32,397 --> 00:20:34,733
I have thought
so often as I have been
264
00:20:34,734 --> 00:20:37,501
down in this basement
where they died,
265
00:20:38,670 --> 00:20:43,408
"Was she angry?
Was she puzzled?
266
00:20:43,409 --> 00:20:47,311
Did she wonder why he had
killed her?
267
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,615
Was she lonely, was she cold?"
268
00:21:06,265 --> 00:21:08,400
It's something that comes over you
269
00:21:08,401 --> 00:21:13,739
when you're down here
but life goes on.
270
00:21:13,740 --> 00:21:18,542
Sometimes you forget
why, but we go on with it.
271
00:21:38,096 --> 00:21:40,032
Brian didn't
want us to know how much
272
00:21:40,033 --> 00:21:46,705
pain he was in, and he kept that
very separate from our life
273
00:21:46,706 --> 00:21:51,677
with him and the family's
life with him.
274
00:21:51,678 --> 00:21:54,479
He just didn't want us to know
how much pain he was in.
275
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,516
That's the thing
that kept us up at night
276
00:21:57,517 --> 00:21:59,251
the most for the longest
amount of time,
277
00:21:59,252 --> 00:22:04,889
is trying to find... trying to
remember something that we missed
278
00:22:09,194 --> 00:22:13,832
We adopted Brian at
birth. When I think about
279
00:22:13,833 --> 00:22:18,537
our relationship and how
strong of a relationship we had
280
00:22:18,538 --> 00:22:21,440
with Brian and how...
281
00:22:21,441 --> 00:22:24,942
good of a
relationship we had with Brian,
282
00:22:29,281 --> 00:22:34,485
if you walked into
our house back then,
283
00:22:37,122 --> 00:22:40,192
we were normal.
284
00:22:40,193 --> 00:22:45,364
And why we didn't
recognize that we had...
285
00:22:45,365 --> 00:22:47,865
such a problem...
286
00:22:51,069 --> 00:22:56,574
is horrific and
something we still cannot...
287
00:22:57,376 --> 00:22:59,643
bear.
288
00:23:04,182 --> 00:23:06,584
Sorry.
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00:23:12,457 --> 00:23:14,626
Hello.This call is subject to
290
00:23:14,627 --> 00:23:18,128
monitoring and recording.
291
00:24:06,611 --> 00:24:09,981
I just had an emotional
visit yesterday; it was really
292
00:24:09,982 --> 00:24:13,718
hard to come here alone. It's
always hard to go to a prison
293
00:24:13,719 --> 00:24:20,192
and it's hard to walk down the
gates and to be buzzed in,
294
00:24:20,193 --> 00:24:22,761
and to wait, and to go to
the searches, and then
295
00:24:22,762 --> 00:24:28,700
just to imagine doing this
forever until I'm dead,
296
00:24:28,701 --> 00:24:34,773
everybody involved is dead
except for Torey and Brian.
297
00:24:34,774 --> 00:24:36,975
They will outlive the
prosecutors and the
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00:24:36,976 --> 00:24:40,345
families and everybody
and there will be...
299
00:24:40,346 --> 00:24:41,613
it will still be going on.
300
00:24:41,614 --> 00:24:45,350
It's just very overwhelming
all the time that there's never
301
00:24:45,351 --> 00:24:48,787
an end in sight or it's
never... it's hard to
302
00:24:48,788 --> 00:24:53,225
imagine how we're going to spend
our life doing this and I'm just
303
00:24:53,226 --> 00:24:59,496
overwhelmed today a
little bit. It's just hard.
304
00:25:30,762 --> 00:25:34,533
My brother is going to
be 26 years old this year,
305
00:25:34,534 --> 00:25:37,802
and he will have spent ten
years, a decade, in prison.
306
00:25:37,803 --> 00:25:40,772
And it's a commitment to stay in
somebody's life with
307
00:25:40,773 --> 00:25:42,473
that circumstance.
308
00:25:46,144 --> 00:25:50,314
The majority
of families forget about them;
309
00:25:51,516 --> 00:25:53,617
I refuse to.
310
00:26:02,894 --> 00:26:06,464
On November 6,
2002, Stacy and Gary Alflen
311
00:26:06,465 --> 00:26:10,368
were shot to death in what many
say was the couple's dream home.
312
00:26:10,369 --> 00:26:12,571
In opening statements,
prosecutors painted the killers
313
00:26:12,572 --> 00:26:15,774
as cold-blooded who
"killed for fun,"
314
00:26:15,775 --> 00:26:19,510
maintaining that Josiah
Ivy acted as the gunman.
315
00:26:29,087 --> 00:26:31,523
My parents visit
him every week, too.
316
00:26:31,524 --> 00:26:37,495
He's chosen to forgive and
he's just so very grateful
317
00:26:37,496 --> 00:26:39,664
of my parent's relationship
and willingness to commit
318
00:26:39,665 --> 00:26:43,768
to visiting him, to be
interactive in his life,
319
00:26:43,769 --> 00:26:47,005
and they have a great
working relationship.
320
00:26:47,006 --> 00:26:50,707
What do you mean they
have a great working relationship?
321
00:26:52,510 --> 00:26:56,414
What I mean by a great
working relationship is that
322
00:26:56,415 --> 00:27:02,085
he's not embittered by anything
that happened in our childhood.
323
00:27:11,730 --> 00:27:15,000
No, my parents spanked
us when we were kids.
324
00:27:15,001 --> 00:27:18,103
I don't know if these days
that's considered abuse
325
00:27:18,104 --> 00:27:21,905
or not, I didn't really look
at it like that.
326
00:27:47,799 --> 00:27:53,638
Okay. Okay, so,
maybe, yeah, there's,
327
00:27:53,639 --> 00:27:57,142
I guess there's some stuff I
really don't want to talk about,
328
00:27:57,143 --> 00:27:59,577
at least not on camera, you know?
329
00:27:59,578 --> 00:28:01,845
But...
330
00:28:07,786 --> 00:28:12,689
I don't ever talk about it, no.
331
00:28:24,836 --> 00:28:28,972
As far as our childhood, it was...
332
00:28:30,208 --> 00:28:31,943
my parents regret a lot of it
333
00:28:31,944 --> 00:28:34,879
and I think they would do
things very differently now
334
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,983
but can't go back in the
past and Josiah has
335
00:28:38,984 --> 00:28:41,820
forgiven my parents.
336
00:28:41,821 --> 00:28:43,621
I know you used the word,
337
00:28:43,622 --> 00:28:48,026
but did you guysgrow up in a cult?
338
00:28:48,027 --> 00:28:50,061
Yeah, when we were younger
339
00:28:50,062 --> 00:28:54,564
we definitely grew up in
a religious cult.
340
00:29:06,978 --> 00:29:12,217
I will tell you, I don't
think... I don't like
341
00:29:12,218 --> 00:29:15,285
remembering our old home.
342
00:29:17,756 --> 00:29:20,023
At the end there...
343
00:29:21,326 --> 00:29:23,161
you know, before Josiah was
344
00:29:23,162 --> 00:29:25,028
going to be sent away.
345
00:29:27,265 --> 00:29:28,833
And you walk in every room
and you have
346
00:29:28,834 --> 00:29:35,005
memories of things that
you'd rather not have.
347
00:29:54,159 --> 00:29:58,730
Do you feel like I'm
still being closed?
348
00:29:58,731 --> 00:30:03,533
I think you're being
as open as you're capable of being.
349
00:30:06,604 --> 00:30:09,840
On the abuse stuff, yeah.
350
00:30:26,424 --> 00:30:28,692
Just...
351
00:31:10,717 --> 00:31:13,104
How old were you when
352
00:31:13,105 --> 00:31:15,340
your stepfather molested you?
353
00:31:15,341 --> 00:31:21,079
Four. Four, five, six.
A little bit of it,
354
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,916
it's still something very
easy to run away from
355
00:31:24,917 --> 00:31:28,318
and not address and not confront.
356
00:31:29,787 --> 00:31:32,957
The brain is a beautiful mechanism
357
00:31:32,958 --> 00:31:35,894
keeping stuff like that shut out.
358
00:31:35,895 --> 00:31:38,863
How long did it go on?
Did your mom know
359
00:31:38,864 --> 00:31:42,166
about it? Did youever tell anybody?
360
00:31:42,167 --> 00:31:45,270
No, God no. I never told
anybody about it.
361
00:31:45,271 --> 00:31:47,839
Can I ask what they did to you?
362
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,675
It's not really something
I like talking about at all.
363
00:31:57,348 --> 00:31:59,817
My daughter started
telling me about this weird kid
364
00:31:59,818 --> 00:32:01,986
in her geometry class
and she said he dressed
365
00:32:01,987 --> 00:32:05,290
like a hippie and she said he
was nice but a little odd.
366
00:32:05,291 --> 00:32:07,358
And then the day of the
murders she said,
367
00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:09,127
"Jacob Ind killed his parents."
368
00:32:09,128 --> 00:32:11,963
And I said, "Is that the kid
you were talking to me about?"
369
00:32:11,964 --> 00:32:16,668
And she said, "Yes." And that's
how Jacob Ind came into my life
370
00:32:16,669 --> 00:32:20,872
because I couldn't get him out
of my mind and I kept thinking,
371
00:32:20,873 --> 00:32:24,608
"What would make a
15-year-old kill his parents?"
372
00:32:30,682 --> 00:32:34,317
He would have us get undressed,
373
00:32:36,421 --> 00:32:38,756
then tie us,
374
00:32:38,757 --> 00:32:43,394
start to masturbate, and after
he was done
375
00:32:43,395 --> 00:32:45,795
he would get dressed
376
00:32:49,133 --> 00:32:50,768
and say,
377
00:32:50,769 --> 00:32:56,439
"You're so fucking dirty. Go
and take a fucking shower."
378
00:32:57,942 --> 00:33:00,845
How do you treat a kid like
a piece of shit? How do you do
379
00:33:00,846 --> 00:33:04,681
that to him? I can't wrap
my brain around that,
380
00:33:05,583 --> 00:33:08,618
just the cruelty of it.
381
00:33:11,723 --> 00:33:13,791
My mom used to give me
enemas when I
382
00:33:13,792 --> 00:33:18,162
was like four or five years old
for reasons that didn't
383
00:33:18,163 --> 00:33:21,933
make any sense. And when
you think back it's like,
384
00:33:21,934 --> 00:33:26,237
"I don't... that's odd."
385
00:33:26,238 --> 00:33:31,042
In traumatized children,
as they become adolescents,
386
00:33:31,043 --> 00:33:35,346
we often see the remains of
the trauma if it has not
387
00:33:35,347 --> 00:33:39,917
been treated, in the form
of depression, aggression,
388
00:33:39,918 --> 00:33:44,055
somebody does something
to them and having
389
00:33:44,056 --> 00:33:50,762
been victimized before, they
overreact it and harm the person
390
00:33:50,763 --> 00:33:54,232
who victimized them.
391
00:33:54,233 --> 00:33:58,836
My stepdad was the source
of terror, slamming me up
392
00:33:58,837 --> 00:34:02,173
against a wall and telling
me he'd crush my head in.
393
00:34:02,174 --> 00:34:07,011
But that was more
tolerable, really to me,
394
00:34:07,012 --> 00:34:11,449
than the cruelty and
coldness in my mom.
395
00:34:11,450 --> 00:34:16,421
That filled me with more despair
than anything else.
396
00:34:16,422 --> 00:34:19,190
I could put up with getting
beat up. That's nothing;
397
00:34:19,191 --> 00:34:22,427
that hurts a little while
and then it goes away.
398
00:34:22,428 --> 00:34:25,163
But being berated for three
hours at a time,
399
00:34:25,164 --> 00:34:28,366
four hours at a time, being
told how you're worthless,
400
00:34:28,367 --> 00:34:30,368
how you deserved what you got.
401
00:34:30,369 --> 00:34:35,339
When I was a little kid,
and this is when I was
402
00:34:35,340 --> 00:34:40,044
getting molested and
probably the worst abuse,
403
00:34:40,045 --> 00:34:45,516
my mom told me never to tell the
cops anything because if I ever
404
00:34:45,517 --> 00:34:50,254
called the cops they would come
and give them a medal because
405
00:34:50,255 --> 00:34:53,925
I was such a horrible,
rotten kid who deserved
406
00:34:53,926 --> 00:34:55,725
what they gave me.
407
00:34:56,527 --> 00:34:59,864
And that stuck with me.
408
00:34:59,865 --> 00:35:06,971
I spoke up as much as I could.
With as weak as I was
409
00:35:06,972 --> 00:35:12,076
at the time I thought I was
screaming from a mountaintop,
410
00:35:12,077 --> 00:35:15,480
though objectively I was making
tiny whimpers.
411
00:35:15,481 --> 00:35:21,785
But I raised every red flag I
could and no one paid attention.
412
00:35:23,087 --> 00:35:28,059
I don't know; it put me in a
very deep, dark place
413
00:35:28,060 --> 00:35:30,660
where I didn't see an option.
414
00:35:36,467 --> 00:35:39,504
We live in a very, very
conservative community.
415
00:35:39,505 --> 00:35:42,440
A lot of people said, "Well, he
killed them because he didn't
416
00:35:42,441 --> 00:35:44,509
want to take out the trash or
whatever." That is not
417
00:35:44,510 --> 00:35:47,378
what happens in parricide
cases; 90% of these kids
418
00:35:47,379 --> 00:35:50,481
are badly abused.
Jacob tried to get help.
419
00:35:50,482 --> 00:35:53,618
His brother tried to get help.
Nobody listened to them,
420
00:35:53,619 --> 00:35:56,120
so Jacob is serving a life
sentence for the sins
421
00:35:56,121 --> 00:35:59,255
of our community.
Nobody helped him.
422
00:36:31,189 --> 00:36:35,693
I joined the Bloods at
around the age of 14,
423
00:36:35,694 --> 00:36:39,630
and as a Blood it didn't really
mean much of anything
424
00:36:39,631 --> 00:36:45,102
except selling crack, getting
into some fights here and
425
00:36:45,103 --> 00:36:50,241
there with the Crips. But
eventually it became more
426
00:36:50,242 --> 00:36:53,377
serious, as they
started shooting at us more,
427
00:36:53,378 --> 00:36:56,347
we started shooting at
them more often.
428
00:36:56,348 --> 00:37:01,886
And the first time that I ever
shot a gun...
429
00:37:01,887 --> 00:37:04,154
I killed someone,
430
00:37:10,461 --> 00:37:15,865
a young man who was just
walking home from work.
431
00:37:17,368 --> 00:37:19,637
We said to that man that day, he
was walking down the street,
432
00:37:19,638 --> 00:37:21,639
we said, "Hey, what's up, Blood?"
433
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,507
He said, "I don't gangbang."
434
00:37:25,576 --> 00:37:27,245
One of the people I was with
435
00:37:27,246 --> 00:37:29,680
jumped out of the car
and said, "I didn't ask
436
00:37:29,681 --> 00:37:32,250
you if you gangbang. I said,
'What's up, Blood?'"
437
00:37:32,251 --> 00:37:34,884
And that young man
took off running.
438
00:37:36,387 --> 00:37:40,089
We laughed,
"Look at him, he's running."
439
00:37:42,627 --> 00:37:44,462
That man got back in
440
00:37:44,463 --> 00:37:47,298
the car, we circle around, we're
going home, we were about to go
441
00:37:47,299 --> 00:37:51,569
home, we weren't even thinking
about this guy anymore.
442
00:37:51,570 --> 00:37:54,571
But then we saw him running
to a house.
443
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:57,341
And when he
444
00:37:57,342 --> 00:38:04,282
got to that house he knocked on
that door and three Crips came
445
00:38:04,283 --> 00:38:06,182
out of that house.
446
00:38:08,319 --> 00:38:10,154
and that's how the whole incident
447
00:38:10,155 --> 00:38:11,955
started.
448
00:38:13,257 --> 00:38:16,761
That's when I made the
decision that I'm going to shoot
449
00:38:16,762 --> 00:38:21,564
a gun at these guys' house
to scare them.
450
00:38:44,889 --> 00:38:48,693
He was just a kid.
At 16 years old, he was very
451
00:38:48,694 --> 00:38:51,395
easily influenced by his friends.
452
00:38:51,396 --> 00:38:54,565
Torey is much more of a
follower than a leader.
453
00:38:54,566 --> 00:38:59,170
Yeah, who I was at that
point and who I am now,
454
00:38:59,171 --> 00:39:01,272
it's like totally different people.
455
00:39:01,273 --> 00:39:04,141
But who Torey was
at that age, at 16, he still
456
00:39:04,142 --> 00:39:06,644
didn't commit this crime.
He's not saying that,
457
00:39:06,645 --> 00:39:08,379
he's not saying that.
458
00:39:08,380 --> 00:39:10,848
I'm saying I
was... I made some mistakes
459
00:39:10,849 --> 00:39:12,183
and I learned from them.
460
00:39:12,184 --> 00:39:14,552
But your mistakes
weren't anything you were
461
00:39:14,553 --> 00:39:17,722
charged with. They weren't
for murder and conspiracy.
462
00:39:17,723 --> 00:39:19,457
Yeah.
463
00:39:19,458 --> 00:39:23,828
That was Brian. It
must be harder, because
464
00:39:23,829 --> 00:39:27,630
you're innocent, to be facing it.
465
00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:30,221
Yeah, I guess.
466
00:39:33,838 --> 00:39:39,343
It's unusual that he
would have that response
467
00:39:39,344 --> 00:39:44,115
and his parents having
that response.
468
00:39:44,116 --> 00:39:51,589
It's a lot to deal with. You
have to accept the societal
469
00:39:51,590 --> 00:39:57,161
brand that you are a convicted
murderer, and that is
470
00:39:57,162 --> 00:40:04,902
a very scary term to have
affixed to your name.
471
00:40:04,903 --> 00:40:08,672
And so it's really hard.
472
00:40:08,673 --> 00:40:15,945
He wants to please his parents,
he wants to go home,
473
00:40:16,580 --> 00:40:21,652
and his kind of behavior is
really common and it's ordinary,
474
00:40:21,653 --> 00:40:25,956
I think. I think what...
475
00:40:25,957 --> 00:40:30,694
makes somebody extraordinary is
476
00:40:30,695 --> 00:40:36,167
when they face everything and
just kinda...
477
00:40:36,168 --> 00:40:37,367
accept it.
478
00:40:38,269 --> 00:40:43,307
It's a hard thing to admit I
killed Cassie Stoddart.
479
00:40:43,308 --> 00:40:46,844
I stabbed a 16-year-old
girl to death,
480
00:40:46,845 --> 00:40:49,312
that's pretty hard to say.
481
00:40:55,386 --> 00:41:00,291
Life never gets so serious
until something like that
482
00:41:00,292 --> 00:41:04,295
happens. I was a 17-year-old
kid; I didn't take anything
483
00:41:04,296 --> 00:41:08,466
serious. I hardly ever went
to school. I was always
484
00:41:08,467 --> 00:41:13,637
skipping class, smoking
weed, getting drunk,
485
00:41:13,638 --> 00:41:18,776
that's all I ever did, sell
drugs. Life wasn't serious.
486
00:41:18,777 --> 00:41:21,512
Nothing was serious...
487
00:41:21,513 --> 00:41:24,747
until I took someone's life.
488
00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:31,187
Man, I wanted to get out of the gang
right then and there, you know?
489
00:41:36,460 --> 00:41:40,897
When I first got
here, I tried to blame others.
490
00:41:44,969 --> 00:41:50,441
And I met this individual in here
and he asked me what happened
491
00:41:50,442 --> 00:41:53,878
in my crime, and I told him,
"Oh, I'm not exactly
492
00:41:53,879 --> 00:41:59,483
sure what happened.
They said I killed her,
493
00:41:59,484 --> 00:42:01,719
I'm not even sure if
I did or not." And he sat me
494
00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:04,687
down and he's like...
495
00:42:05,890 --> 00:42:08,392
"Stop giving me a whole
496
00:42:08,393 --> 00:42:12,363
bunch of bullshit, okay? If you
want my help you have to
497
00:42:12,364 --> 00:42:17,001
completely be honest with me."
498
00:42:17,002 --> 00:42:21,939
And he taught me about how
I owe a tremendous
499
00:42:21,940 --> 00:42:27,578
debt to Cassie Stoddart, and
the only way that I could even
500
00:42:27,579 --> 00:42:34,685
start paying that is
to first of all tell exactly
501
00:42:34,686 --> 00:42:38,121
what happened to her and...
502
00:42:39,056 --> 00:42:43,327
do not dishonor her
in anything that
503
00:42:43,328 --> 00:42:48,666
you do in your life. And I've
tried that; it's very hard,
504
00:42:48,667 --> 00:42:53,069
it's very hard, but I think that...
505
00:42:54,271 --> 00:42:55,639
that's all I can do and
506
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,342
I have the obligation.
I have to do that
507
00:42:58,343 --> 00:43:00,743
or I'm...
508
00:43:03,180 --> 00:43:05,948
a monster, I guess.
509
00:43:37,147 --> 00:43:41,085
When I got to prison, I
still got myself involved in
510
00:43:41,086 --> 00:43:43,654
certain situations that were gang
511
00:43:43,655 --> 00:43:47,791
related. Still, even then, I
felt like they were... it was
512
00:43:47,792 --> 00:43:50,828
like clothes that didn't
fit. It just wasn't me, and
513
00:43:50,829 --> 00:43:53,998
it only took one incident in
prison for me to say,
514
00:43:53,999 --> 00:43:58,769
"I'm living the same
ridiculous way I was living
515
00:43:58,770 --> 00:44:04,575
before I got locked up.
Man, I got to stop this."
516
00:44:04,576 --> 00:44:07,511
A friend of mine got into a
fight with a Crip and
517
00:44:07,512 --> 00:44:11,148
I went to retaliate, after it
was over with I just lined all
518
00:44:11,149 --> 00:44:15,885
of my friends up in the gym and
I told them, "I'm out."
519
00:44:16,954 --> 00:44:21,992
I'd been studying Islam
anyway, and I told them that
520
00:44:21,993 --> 00:44:27,464
I'm going to take this way of
life called Islam; I'm going to
521
00:44:27,465 --> 00:44:32,970
take it serious. And in order to
take it serious, I can't live
522
00:44:32,971 --> 00:44:39,809
two lives because Allah didn't
make two hearts in one breast.
523
00:44:41,745 --> 00:44:46,817
So I chose to live
the life of a Muslim and I left
524
00:44:46,818 --> 00:44:50,620
the life of a Blood behind me.
525
00:45:17,214 --> 00:45:20,818
When I first went to
solitary confinement I was 17.
526
00:45:20,819 --> 00:45:23,220
I was stuck in a cell and I
couldn't run away from who I
527
00:45:23,221 --> 00:45:30,060
was. In solitary, that's where
all the worst of the worst are
528
00:45:30,061 --> 00:45:33,864
which, at the time, I thought
the greatest convicts, the tough
529
00:45:33,865 --> 00:45:36,767
guys are, the real guys are.
But eventually,
530
00:45:36,768 --> 00:45:41,772
I had to decide whether
I wanted to be like
531
00:45:41,773 --> 00:45:45,142
those around me or if I want
to be the type of man
532
00:45:45,143 --> 00:45:49,079
I idealized in my brain.
533
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:54,618
And then I started looking at
myself more in depth and said,
534
00:45:54,619 --> 00:45:57,488
"I don't want to be who I am
right now either. I don't like
535
00:45:57,489 --> 00:46:02,493
who I am right now."
So I started just going layer by
536
00:46:02,494 --> 00:46:07,164
layer through who I was,
through how I thought,
537
00:46:07,165 --> 00:46:10,768
what my outlooks on life were,
characteristics.
538
00:46:10,769 --> 00:46:14,738
And if I didn't like it I'd work
on it, work on that one thing
539
00:46:14,739 --> 00:46:20,544
until I got rid of it,
move to the next item.
540
00:46:20,545 --> 00:46:26,650
And as I learn new lessons from
my studies, I've learned to
541
00:46:26,651 --> 00:46:32,256
apply it into my life.
Forgiveness is one of them,
542
00:46:32,257 --> 00:46:34,457
be a more forgiving person.
543
00:46:37,728 --> 00:46:39,863
To try and have empathy
544
00:46:39,864 --> 00:46:43,901
with others, and to empathize
with where they're coming from
545
00:46:43,902 --> 00:46:47,104
and from their situation
rather than solely
546
00:46:47,105 --> 00:46:51,241
from my own, from judging from
my own experience,
547
00:46:51,242 --> 00:46:54,311
which is definitely a radical
change in thinking for most
548
00:46:54,312 --> 00:46:59,283
people. It really changed how I
looked at the world and how I
549
00:46:59,284 --> 00:47:03,587
viewed human interactions and
dealt with people and to me it's
550
00:47:03,588 --> 00:47:05,823
one of the most important
lessons I've learned
551
00:47:05,824 --> 00:47:07,757
so far in prison.
552
00:47:19,069 --> 00:47:21,071
One of the reasons
why life without parole is
553
00:47:21,072 --> 00:47:25,075
given as a sentence is because
courts find that certain
554
00:47:25,076 --> 00:47:28,345
offenders are so dangerous that
they can never be allowed to
555
00:47:28,346 --> 00:47:30,848
walk among us again, and that's
a hard calculation to make.
556
00:47:30,849 --> 00:47:33,083
Life without parole is a very
rare sentence across the
557
00:47:33,084 --> 00:47:35,219
country; it's very rarely
given and the standards are
558
00:47:35,220 --> 00:47:38,121
really high for any age
offender to ever receive it,
559
00:47:38,122 --> 00:47:39,623
as it should.
560
00:47:39,624 --> 00:47:42,226
But one of the reasons they do
it is because they have found
561
00:47:42,227 --> 00:47:45,162
time and time again that if you
release certain kinds of
562
00:47:45,163 --> 00:47:48,031
offenders they will re-offend
and very violently.
563
00:47:48,032 --> 00:47:51,134
And that's what recidivism is,
is the violent re-offense
564
00:47:51,135 --> 00:47:54,338
that happens when you let an
offender out who is just not
565
00:47:54,339 --> 00:47:56,906
safe to be released.
566
00:48:00,043 --> 00:48:04,648
I started teenkillers.org as a
blog where people have come in
567
00:48:04,649 --> 00:48:07,217
from the outside and posted
their comments, and
568
00:48:07,218 --> 00:48:09,620
there's a posting by an
attorney in California,
569
00:48:09,621 --> 00:48:13,123
Daniel Horowitz, whose wife was
murdered by a juvenile lifer.
570
00:48:13,124 --> 00:48:16,293
If you are willing kill
before you're even 18,
571
00:48:16,294 --> 00:48:20,664
you are so broken inside
that unless you
572
00:48:20,665 --> 00:48:24,001
have some miraculous healing,
unless something
573
00:48:24,002 --> 00:48:27,271
almost extraordinary happens,
all you're going to do is gain
574
00:48:27,272 --> 00:48:31,174
control mechanisms. You're going
to learn how to walk and talk
575
00:48:31,175 --> 00:48:35,010
like a regular person, as
do many serial killers,
576
00:48:38,415 --> 00:48:43,220
but ultimately sieving
underneath is that same sickness
577
00:48:43,221 --> 00:48:47,157
that erupted at least one time
as a juvenile, incapable of
578
00:48:47,158 --> 00:48:50,392
feeling genuine compassion.
579
00:48:51,995 --> 00:48:55,132
For me, one of the
biggest aspects of life without
580
00:48:55,133 --> 00:48:58,869
parole for a juvenile is
that it automatically negates
581
00:48:58,870 --> 00:49:02,940
any chance for rehabilitation,
automatically says,
582
00:49:02,941 --> 00:49:07,277
"What you've done at this early age
583
00:49:07,278 --> 00:49:10,314
completely makes
anything you can do from that
584
00:49:10,315 --> 00:49:14,818
point on immaterial. You've
thrown away your life, you're
585
00:49:14,819 --> 00:49:19,022
worthless, you're trash, we
don't want you."
586
00:49:19,023 --> 00:49:23,060
I want to have a
chance at a life. I understand
587
00:49:23,061 --> 00:49:26,496
that Cassie can't, and...
588
00:49:26,497 --> 00:49:31,233
I never ignore that.
589
00:49:32,102 --> 00:49:36,106
She's dead and not anything
is going to change that.
590
00:49:36,107 --> 00:49:41,812
I did something terrible
and there has to be
591
00:49:41,813 --> 00:49:46,016
consequences for that.
Everything we do in life,
592
00:49:46,017 --> 00:49:47,851
there are always consequences.
593
00:49:47,852 --> 00:49:51,288
Oh, man, my consequence
hurt my dad, my grandma,
594
00:49:51,289 --> 00:49:57,094
my aunts, even my friends
and neighbors at school,
595
00:49:57,095 --> 00:50:02,299
I had no concept that what I was
doing was going to hurt so many
596
00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:08,205
people. I was completely
clueless about it and that's
597
00:50:08,206 --> 00:50:14,845
it's hard for me to build
up much sympathy for my
598
00:50:14,846 --> 00:50:20,115
mom and stepdad, though I did
originally right off the bat.
599
00:50:22,119 --> 00:50:26,390
But for all the innocent people
that were hurt,
600
00:50:26,391 --> 00:50:30,092
like my brother,
and like my family,
601
00:50:31,361 --> 00:50:32,996
it's almost unforgivable.
602
00:50:32,997 --> 00:50:38,402
And it's a weight that I
tried to avoid, tried
603
00:50:38,403 --> 00:50:42,005
to keep off my shoulders for years.
Now...
604
00:50:42,006 --> 00:50:43,907
that I have embraced
605
00:50:43,908 --> 00:50:49,780
it, my driving factor is I have
to make it up to them.
606
00:50:49,781 --> 00:50:53,183
They're the only thing in this
world I give a damn about
607
00:50:53,184 --> 00:50:57,354
anymore, and they're the reason
I want to be the best person
608
00:50:57,355 --> 00:51:00,057
I can be and make
something of myself
609
00:51:00,058 --> 00:51:02,392
is to make it up for them.
610
00:51:02,393 --> 00:51:04,995
I don't know. I have
a lot of ambitions,
611
00:51:04,996 --> 00:51:11,835
and if I were to get out
I'd know exactly
612
00:51:11,836 --> 00:51:16,073
what I do with my life. But
being in here, if that's all I
613
00:51:16,074 --> 00:51:20,844
have is just these... it feels
like all I have is
614
00:51:20,845 --> 00:51:24,414
just to sit here and rot and
there are no redeeming
615
00:51:24,415 --> 00:51:29,119
qualities. There's nothing I can
do really to alleviate
616
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:30,886
any...
617
00:51:33,757 --> 00:51:35,959
I don't know. It's like
just watching yourself
618
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,495
decompose. It's just horrible.
619
00:51:42,599 --> 00:51:49,673
He's been in prison six
years, and he's still on his
620
00:51:49,674 --> 00:51:53,343
first day. He hasn't progressed
621
00:51:53,344 --> 00:51:58,882
at all and it's going to hurt
him in the end, either
622
00:51:58,883 --> 00:52:05,421
psychologically, if he has a
conscience, or in courts.
623
00:52:06,857 --> 00:52:10,894
They don't want to
hear that you're completely
624
00:52:10,895 --> 00:52:16,066
innocent. He's not innocent,
he's not, I'm not innocent,
625
00:52:16,067 --> 00:52:21,138
I'm guilty and he's guilty, and
that's where we all
626
00:52:21,139 --> 00:52:24,506
should start at.
627
00:52:31,214 --> 00:52:34,918
Twenty years. I would say
about 20 years after that
628
00:52:34,919 --> 00:52:42,125
incident I began to try to put
a plan in motion to
629
00:52:42,126 --> 00:52:46,930
instead of feeling bad, feeling
down, feeling depressed about
630
00:52:46,931 --> 00:52:53,270
what I did, to try to help people,
631
00:52:53,271 --> 00:52:56,039
starting with the people
that I was around. I didn't have
632
00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:01,111
to reach out to the free world.
There is a bunch of gangbangers
633
00:53:01,112 --> 00:53:05,949
in prison. So I reached out to
them, let them know,
634
00:53:05,950 --> 00:53:11,021
"Hey, there is a better life
to live for you. There's a
635
00:53:11,022 --> 00:53:14,057
life that makes more sense."
636
00:53:14,058 --> 00:53:17,994
I had a lot of good, positive
mentors in prison, and they
637
00:53:17,995 --> 00:53:20,530
would always hand me a book.
They would always say,
638
00:53:20,531 --> 00:53:23,633
"What have you read
today?" "Well, I haven't read
639
00:53:23,634 --> 00:53:26,069
anything today. " " Well, good
because I have something for
640
00:53:26,070 --> 00:53:30,173
you, here." And I came up like
that in prison.
641
00:53:30,174 --> 00:53:32,175
I grew up like that in prison.
642
00:53:32,176 --> 00:53:35,178
I began to educate others and I
began to pass on those same
643
00:53:35,179 --> 00:53:38,181
things that those men taught me.
I started feeling
644
00:53:38,182 --> 00:53:43,954
like, "This is what I'm supposed
to do." And I wrote
645
00:53:43,955 --> 00:53:51,261
Governor Ritter, I didn't write
and beg him to let me out
646
00:53:51,262 --> 00:53:57,133
of prison; I wrote him and asked
him would it be okay with him if
647
00:53:57,134 --> 00:54:01,104
I were put in a position where I
could try to keep young people
648
00:54:01,105 --> 00:54:04,973
from doing the same stupid thing
that I did.
649
00:54:17,153 --> 00:54:19,756
My wife's son was convicted
of first-degree murder
650
00:54:19,757 --> 00:54:25,428
when he had just turned 17.
Brian just wasn't mature enough.
651
00:54:25,429 --> 00:54:28,064
I thank God that I'm
not judged permanently on how
652
00:54:28,065 --> 00:54:31,334
I acted when I was 16.
We need to fairly
653
00:54:31,335 --> 00:54:36,773
assess mitigating factors in
some of these juvenile cases
654
00:54:36,774 --> 00:54:41,211
and we need to fairly assess
who that person is today.
655
00:54:41,212 --> 00:54:44,614
If I could say something,
all of this makes it sound as if
656
00:54:44,615 --> 00:54:48,551
we're making excuses.
A life was taken.
657
00:54:48,552 --> 00:54:52,889
We cannot mitigate
that, and we cannot say,
658
00:54:52,890 --> 00:54:57,260
"Somehow it's okay because
whether this kid was 15 or
659
00:54:57,261 --> 00:55:01,798
they're 35, somebody was
killed." But I think we have to
660
00:55:01,799 --> 00:55:05,135
look beyond that, and that's
where Sharletta comes in.
661
00:55:05,136 --> 00:55:09,572
Sharletta Evans lost her
3-year-old son, Casson,
662
00:55:09,573 --> 00:55:12,709
to two juvenile lifers in a
drive-by shooting.
663
00:55:12,710 --> 00:55:16,011
Let Sharletta tell her story.
664
00:55:18,315 --> 00:55:21,818
Hello. Thank you,
Mary Ellen.
665
00:55:21,819 --> 00:55:25,188
Seventeen years ago, my
three-year-old son,
666
00:55:25,189 --> 00:55:29,192
Casson Evans, was killed in a
drive-by shooting.
667
00:55:29,193 --> 00:55:32,562
Twenty-one bullets were fired.
One bullet entered the back
668
00:55:32,563 --> 00:55:38,735
window, entered into his temple,
and shattered his brain stem.
669
00:55:38,736 --> 00:55:41,738
So the paramedics showed
up. Right when they came
670
00:55:41,739 --> 00:55:45,942
into the house where
we were standing,
671
00:55:45,943 --> 00:55:49,111
Casson took
his last breath in my arms.
672
00:55:55,118 --> 00:56:01,825
I was overwhelmed with grief and
sorrow, not knowing what to
673
00:56:01,826 --> 00:56:05,695
feel, not knowing to sit down,
stand up, go to sleep, or stay
674
00:56:05,696 --> 00:56:11,735
up. You're just consumed with
sorrow. I knew they were
675
00:56:11,736 --> 00:56:14,937
teenagers but I wanted justice.
676
00:56:17,307 --> 00:56:19,642
Years are going by, one
677
00:56:19,643 --> 00:56:22,645
of the shooters, his mother came
to me after 11 years
678
00:56:22,646 --> 00:56:27,951
and asked me would I beg her
pardon. Would I pardon her son
679
00:56:27,952 --> 00:56:31,488
and her for these deeds that
they've done?
680
00:56:31,489 --> 00:56:37,394
And I'm like, "Wow, are you kidding?
You know? No."
681
00:56:37,395 --> 00:56:42,499
And I just walked away. I began
to argue with God,
682
00:56:42,500 --> 00:56:44,801
I began to cry and
argue with God like,
683
00:56:44,802 --> 00:56:49,339
"What is wrong with these people?
684
00:56:49,340 --> 00:56:51,907
They still don't get it."
685
00:56:52,675 --> 00:56:55,378
I would not forgive anybody and
686
00:56:55,379 --> 00:56:57,512
I'm angry about this.
687
00:57:01,684 --> 00:57:05,321
Right there,
I recognize the presence
688
00:57:05,322 --> 00:57:09,325
of the Lord, the
spirit of God, saying,
689
00:57:09,326 --> 00:57:15,465
"Would you forgive?" My heart
began to soften and
690
00:57:15,466 --> 00:57:20,570
have compassion where I
found myself crying
691
00:57:20,571 --> 00:57:25,909
and praying and literally weeping
692
00:57:25,910 --> 00:57:29,813
for who they really were and
what has happened to them in
693
00:57:29,814 --> 00:57:35,685
their lives that caused this act
of violence, this emptiness within
694
00:57:35,686 --> 00:57:41,491
themselves. This could
actually be my very own son.
695
00:57:41,492 --> 00:57:47,697
My surviving son was at
this time 16 and 17, and this
696
00:57:47,698 --> 00:57:53,736
could very well have been
him. So, I pretty much put
697
00:57:53,737 --> 00:58:01,410
myself in the place of the offender
and the offender's family.
698
00:58:01,411 --> 00:58:09,184
The guilt and the shame is there
for the offender's family.
699
00:58:11,788 --> 00:58:18,994
My whole family, we won't ever
700
00:58:19,896 --> 00:58:23,867
be able to understand what
the victim's families
701
00:58:23,868 --> 00:58:27,135
go through but our whole family...
702
00:58:31,074 --> 00:58:33,341
hurts.
703
00:58:38,548 --> 00:58:43,453
Are we as a society,
are we grown up enough and
704
00:58:43,454 --> 00:58:45,755
spiritual enough to say,
"Okay, there is
705
00:58:45,756 --> 00:58:49,025
redemption and rehabilitation
for some of them?"
706
00:58:49,026 --> 00:58:52,929
And does this person
deserve a second chance at life?
707
00:58:52,930 --> 00:58:56,465
Has he shown a remorse?
What does that look like?
708
00:59:09,812 --> 00:59:12,515
I made terrible decisions then.
709
00:59:12,516 --> 00:59:15,618
They're the worst I've ever made
and I've had to live with those
710
00:59:15,619 --> 00:59:19,022
ever since. There are so many
things that
711
00:59:19,023 --> 00:59:21,623
I should have done differently.
712
00:59:24,060 --> 00:59:27,829
I'm so sorry about what happened
to them.
713
00:59:34,304 --> 00:59:36,571
I don't know.
714
00:59:40,677 --> 00:59:41,778
What if you're wrong?
715
00:59:41,779 --> 00:59:44,981
What if Josiah shot
the two victims?
716
00:59:44,982 --> 00:59:49,519
Wouldn't change how I
love him. It would inevitably
717
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,589
change some things
on how I feel about him but it
718
00:59:52,590 --> 00:59:56,358
wouldn't change how I love him.
I...
719
00:59:59,062 --> 01:00:02,330
I can't...
I can't...
720
01:00:04,133 --> 01:00:06,869
stomach the thought of
721
01:00:06,870 --> 01:00:09,771
him dying in prison.
722
01:00:21,918 --> 01:00:26,122
After the crime had
happened, I had horrific dreams,
723
01:00:26,123 --> 01:00:31,027
bad dreams,
where she was there and just
724
01:00:31,028 --> 01:00:36,933
graphic, gruesome dreams about
her dying.
725
01:00:36,934 --> 01:00:43,805
I would wake up in the night and
I would be scared, terrified.
726
01:00:52,982 --> 01:00:59,856
Now I have dreams of her at
school and everything is good.
727
01:00:59,857 --> 01:01:08,164
She is always smiling but I
always know in the
728
01:01:08,165 --> 01:01:14,237
dream that I killed her, and
those dreams are...
729
01:01:14,238 --> 01:01:16,504
even worse.
730
01:01:20,576 --> 01:01:27,650
And now it's like the
only thing I can do is hurt
731
01:01:27,651 --> 01:01:29,618
myself.
732
01:01:31,220 --> 01:01:35,624
It takes away the pain of...
733
01:01:38,828 --> 01:01:41,830
just knowing what I did.
734
01:01:46,469 --> 01:01:50,206
Remorse equals pain.
You're feeling pain for what
735
01:01:50,207 --> 01:01:53,676
you've done to someone else. And
it's very easy to deny pain and
736
01:01:53,677 --> 01:01:58,448
run away from pain, and I did it
for a long time.
737
01:01:58,449 --> 01:02:01,017
And then I started
becoming aware of
738
01:02:01,018 --> 01:02:06,923
everyone else who was
hurt and feeling remorse for
739
01:02:06,924 --> 01:02:10,226
that and then running away from
that pain as soon as I realized
740
01:02:10,227 --> 01:02:13,496
it. I said, "Whoa, whoa, I don't
want to feel pain. So, no, it's
741
01:02:13,497 --> 01:02:15,898
not my fault that all those
people are hurt. I'm going to
742
01:02:15,899 --> 01:02:19,802
still put it back on my parents.
If they didn't do all that to me
743
01:02:19,803 --> 01:02:23,906
well then these people wouldn't
have been hurt either."
744
01:02:23,907 --> 01:02:28,144
And it took...
745
01:02:28,145 --> 01:02:32,782
probably close
to a decade before I could
746
01:02:32,783 --> 01:02:38,687
have the strength to stop
and say, "No. My fault."
747
01:02:40,289 --> 01:02:42,125
What makes
748
01:02:42,126 --> 01:02:43,926
so much of it worse now,
thinking back at my
749
01:02:43,927 --> 01:02:46,696
childhood, is now that
I'm a grown man, I've
750
01:02:46,697 --> 01:02:50,366
seen kids. I've seen how the
relationship is supposed to be
751
01:02:50,367 --> 01:02:52,668
with your parents.
Obviously, they had to
752
01:02:52,669 --> 01:02:55,104
have been mentally ill.
They're passing
753
01:02:55,105 --> 01:02:58,841
down garbage from their past.
It's a cycle.
754
01:02:58,842 --> 01:03:03,079
They had their own issues that
led into it that lessened their
755
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:07,283
culpability. And when you
start thinking about that
756
01:03:07,284 --> 01:03:09,585
it's like, "Wait a minute, they
didn't deserve what happened to
757
01:03:09,586 --> 01:03:12,889
them that caused them that way."
And it starts feeding into
758
01:03:12,890 --> 01:03:18,261
itself and it's like, "Wow."
If I'm going to say, "I deserve
759
01:03:18,262 --> 01:03:20,663
another shot because I was
screwed up and I didn't...
760
01:03:20,664 --> 01:03:23,900
I was made to be
who I am," then I have to have
761
01:03:23,901 --> 01:03:29,839
the same amount of empathy for
them and what they went through
762
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,540
that made them into who they were.
763
01:03:35,678 --> 01:03:37,880
A decision just
released by the U.S. Supreme
764
01:03:37,881 --> 01:03:40,249
Court will change
the way juveniles are sentenced.
765
01:03:40,250 --> 01:03:42,218
There was another ruling that you
766
01:03:42,219 --> 01:03:45,087
need to know about. The
justices ruled five to four that
767
01:03:45,088 --> 01:03:48,925
life without parole sentences
are cruel and unusual
768
01:03:48,926 --> 01:03:51,661
punishment for juvenile
offenders. That's anyone under
769
01:03:51,662 --> 01:03:54,764
the age of 18 regardless of the
crime.
770
01:03:54,765 --> 01:03:56,899
The ruling could
affect as many as 38 states
771
01:03:56,900 --> 01:03:59,869
where laws allow life without
parole for teenagers.
772
01:03:59,870 --> 01:04:01,938
At first when they came on they
773
01:04:01,939 --> 01:04:05,141
just said, "Life without parole
for juveniles has been
774
01:04:05,142 --> 01:04:08,010
abolished." I was so happy
because they didn't put any
775
01:04:08,011 --> 01:04:13,349
caveats in there, no
stipulations. And, man, I was
776
01:04:13,350 --> 01:04:15,751
jumping up and down in the cell
I was so happy.
777
01:04:15,752 --> 01:04:17,053
What the court held by five to
778
01:04:17,054 --> 01:04:21,023
four, Justice Anthony Kennedy
joining the four liberals said
779
01:04:21,024 --> 01:04:27,163
that, "It is unconstitutional
for a law to say
780
01:04:27,164 --> 01:04:30,666
a juvenile convicted of
murder must automatically serve
781
01:04:30,667 --> 01:04:34,170
life without parole. The judge
or jury has to make a separate
782
01:04:34,171 --> 01:04:37,773
determination about
whether the individual should
783
01:04:37,774 --> 01:04:40,243
serve life without parole.
784
01:04:40,244 --> 01:04:42,078
And the next
hour when the news came
785
01:04:42,079 --> 01:04:46,983
on again they threw in the
little limitations. Mandatory
786
01:04:46,984 --> 01:04:50,786
life without parole was
unconstitutional and that they
787
01:04:50,787 --> 01:04:54,924
could still gives kids
life without parole. And it
788
01:04:54,925 --> 01:04:57,994
tempered us a little bit but
that's the ruling that we
789
01:04:57,995 --> 01:05:04,400
expected all along. So, we're
still very happy and we still
790
01:05:04,401 --> 01:05:07,937
actually can tangibly see
light at the end of the tunnel.
791
01:05:07,938 --> 01:05:13,276
Judges will
have to face that question of,
792
01:05:13,277 --> 01:05:17,914
"Are there children
who should be in the adult
793
01:05:17,915 --> 01:05:23,286
system for long years,
or for life? And how do we
794
01:05:23,287 --> 01:05:28,356
identify which children those are?"
795
01:05:29,058 --> 01:05:30,760
They have, on the one
796
01:05:30,761 --> 01:05:36,866
hand, a terrible
offense, victims whose lives
797
01:05:36,867 --> 01:05:42,371
will never be the same, the
community that's harmed by
798
01:05:42,372 --> 01:05:47,944
feeling unsafe when a crime of
this sort occurs.
799
01:05:47,945 --> 01:05:54,684
And on the other
hand, a young person who is
800
01:05:54,685 --> 01:05:59,422
childish, damaged by trauma,
whose never been arrested
801
01:05:59,423 --> 01:06:05,127
before, who's never had
counseling services before, and
802
01:06:05,128 --> 01:06:10,299
is amenable to rehabilitation.
From my experience, the number
803
01:06:10,300 --> 01:06:16,971
of kids who cannot be
rehabilitated is very small.
804
01:06:56,846 --> 01:07:02,018
On January 8, 2011, one of the
805
01:07:02,019 --> 01:07:05,821
sergeants in my cell house
called me into his
806
01:07:05,822 --> 01:07:09,325
office and spun his
computer around and said,
807
01:07:09,326 --> 01:07:15,364
"Do you recognize this name?" It
was the governor's website and I
808
01:07:15,365 --> 01:07:17,767
said, "Yeah, it's my name."
He said, "What does it say?"
809
01:07:17,768 --> 01:07:22,304
I said, "It says Sean Taylor...
810
01:07:22,305 --> 01:07:28,044
sentenced in 1990 to life for
811
01:07:28,045 --> 01:07:34,984
first-degree murder has had his
sentence commuted...
812
01:07:34,985 --> 01:07:37,252
to parole."
813
01:07:43,926 --> 01:07:47,295
I started crying immediately.
814
01:07:55,271 --> 01:07:57,073
Went back in the cell house
815
01:07:57,074 --> 01:08:00,976
and hugged all my friends and
everybody.
816
01:08:00,977 --> 01:08:05,213
Everybody just was standing
around crying...
817
01:08:06,715 --> 01:08:08,983
praising God.
818
01:08:11,253 --> 01:08:15,925
Everything feels beautiful out
here, man, but I never try to
819
01:08:15,926 --> 01:08:21,197
lose focus. I say, "Even though
I've been blessed and
820
01:08:21,198 --> 01:08:26,936
I'm enjoying my life out here,
there's still always the
821
01:08:26,937 --> 01:08:31,841
mission to make sure that I can
do whatever I can do, whatever I
822
01:08:31,842 --> 01:08:33,909
can do...
823
01:08:33,910 --> 01:08:38,380
whatever I can do to stop
some young person
824
01:08:38,381 --> 01:08:40,549
from doing something like
825
01:08:40,550 --> 01:08:46,055
I did." Messing up their
lives and messing up someone
826
01:08:46,056 --> 01:08:51,025
else's life and causing
grief to someone else's family,
827
01:08:52,495 --> 01:08:56,698
I'll do whatever I
have to do to stop that.
828
01:08:58,167 --> 01:09:01,370
I fully believe,
100%, that I'm going to get
829
01:09:01,371 --> 01:09:05,007
out, especially
with the Supreme Court case that
830
01:09:05,008 --> 01:09:11,046
came down. But the
pragmatist in me, about half of
831
01:09:11,047 --> 01:09:14,550
me, says it's going to be a
couple more years, ten more
832
01:09:14,551 --> 01:09:18,686
years, who knows how long, but
it's going to be a while.
833
01:09:26,695 --> 01:09:27,830
Hello?
834
01:09:27,831 --> 01:09:28,831
Hello.
835
01:09:28,832 --> 01:09:30,498
- Hi.
- Hey, Dad.
836
01:10:08,037 --> 01:10:12,474
I knew that the
truth was terrible.
837
01:10:12,475 --> 01:10:17,445
And I was really
scared of coming clean.
838
01:10:19,014 --> 01:10:22,718
Years after this happened,
we were visiting and I was
839
01:10:22,719 --> 01:10:30,492
like, "No, I am not innocent,
Mom. I had a part in this.
840
01:10:30,493 --> 01:10:34,228
I knew it was going to happen
and I went along with it."
841
01:10:36,599 --> 01:10:43,606
And she was devastated,
of course. She had to accept
842
01:10:43,607 --> 01:10:49,243
that her son had a part in this
horrible crime.
843
01:10:57,052 --> 01:11:02,324
I have personally seen my dad
844
01:11:02,325 --> 01:11:06,362
cry two times, and the first
845
01:11:06,363 --> 01:11:13,502
time was when I won a
scholarship for a science
846
01:11:13,503 --> 01:11:19,141
project I did and the other time
was when he was on the stand in
847
01:11:19,142 --> 01:11:26,314
court and he was crying
because I hurt him so much.
848
01:11:30,119 --> 01:11:35,157
Your parents, they love
you so much and then you show
849
01:11:35,158 --> 01:11:39,827
them this by destroying them.
850
01:11:48,837 --> 01:11:51,706
I got special parents.
851
01:11:57,646 --> 01:12:00,915
I just wish I could go
back in time.71683
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