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I was 21 years old.
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00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,211
I was a pin-up model.
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00:02:58,470 --> 00:03:00,928
I was working
with a photographer
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00:03:01,098 --> 00:03:03,761
and he said
that Universal
5
00:03:03,934 --> 00:03:06,642
or UI,
as it was called then
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00:03:06,645 --> 00:03:09,809
are looking for somebody
to pose in a film.
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00:03:09,815 --> 00:03:13,354
So I called
and made an appointment.
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00:03:13,568 --> 00:03:17,107
I went and spoke
with Mr. Hitchcock
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00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,863
and basically
had to strip down.
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00:03:20,033 --> 00:03:22,116
Got dressed
again and then
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00:03:22,119 --> 00:03:24,657
was interviewed by,
uh, Janet Leigh
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00:03:24,663 --> 00:03:26,529
and I had to strip down
for her, too.
13
00:03:26,707 --> 00:03:29,541
Well, just in my
underpants, but anyway..
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00:03:29,710 --> 00:03:33,750
My body was very
similar to hers. So I got hired.
15
00:03:33,922 --> 00:03:35,538
I had to report
for makeup
16
00:03:35,549 --> 00:03:38,041
I don't know,
one or two days later
17
00:03:38,051 --> 00:03:40,293
and there's
the red light flashing
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00:03:40,470 --> 00:03:42,883
and "No admittance"
and all of this.
19
00:03:43,056 --> 00:03:45,719
And I thought, "Oh, God.
20
00:03:45,892 --> 00:03:48,851
You know, here they're
expecting a stripper."
21
00:03:49,020 --> 00:03:52,229
I was not quite
completely nude.
22
00:03:52,399 --> 00:03:55,642
I had, uh, what we called
a crotch patch.
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00:03:55,819 --> 00:03:57,355
During filming
with the shower
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00:03:57,362 --> 00:03:58,398
going and everything
25
00:03:58,613 --> 00:03:59,854
it would come loose.
26
00:04:00,031 --> 00:04:01,897
I told Hitchcock, I said
27
00:04:02,075 --> 00:04:03,177
"Why don't we
take this thing off?"
28
00:04:03,201 --> 00:04:06,035
And he says, "No. No."
29
00:04:06,037 --> 00:04:08,029
The whole time
he wore a suit
30
00:04:08,206 --> 00:04:10,539
black tie, white shirt.
31
00:04:10,542 --> 00:04:13,285
I was hired
for two or three days
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00:04:13,295 --> 00:04:15,582
and wound up working
for seven.
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00:04:17,257 --> 00:04:19,715
It's extraordinary
that it took so long
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00:04:19,718 --> 00:04:21,801
to do that
p... one particular scene
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00:04:22,012 --> 00:04:24,345
because that was about
a third of what
36
00:04:24,347 --> 00:04:26,339
Janet Leigh had to work
for the movie.
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00:04:26,349 --> 00:04:28,841
There were 78
pieces of film
38
00:04:28,852 --> 00:04:31,720
in about 45 seconds.
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00:04:31,730 --> 00:04:34,393
Spending seven days
on one small set
40
00:04:34,399 --> 00:04:36,231
shooting, you know,
such a short scene
41
00:04:36,401 --> 00:04:38,108
was pretty much
unheard of.
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00:04:38,111 --> 00:04:39,272
Generally these days,
you're lucky
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00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:40,986
if you get
one day to kill someone.
44
00:04:40,989 --> 00:04:42,321
Oh, it has to be
an obsession.
45
00:04:42,491 --> 00:04:44,323
You're shooting that over
the course of seven days
46
00:04:44,326 --> 00:04:46,363
that is absolutely
an obsession.
47
00:04:46,369 --> 00:04:48,656
Hitchcock thought
to film this murder
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00:04:48,830 --> 00:04:50,308
separately from the rest
of this movie
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00:04:50,332 --> 00:04:51,948
which meant
in a way that
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00:04:52,125 --> 00:04:54,367
murder was now
going to be
51
00:04:54,377 --> 00:04:57,370
an acceptable
part of entertainment.
52
00:04:57,547 --> 00:04:59,709
There was violence
in American films
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00:04:59,716 --> 00:05:01,673
but nothing
like "Psycho."
54
00:05:01,676 --> 00:05:04,635
Nothing that intimate,
nothing that designed
55
00:05:04,638 --> 00:05:07,551
nothing that
kind of remorseless.
56
00:05:07,724 --> 00:05:09,886
I think he knew
what he had on his hands.
57
00:05:10,060 --> 00:05:11,722
And he probably
felt like
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00:05:11,895 --> 00:05:14,182
the whole film
hinged on that moment
59
00:05:14,189 --> 00:05:16,021
that's this
crucible moment.
60
00:05:16,191 --> 00:05:18,729
You should've seen
the blood.
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00:05:18,902 --> 00:05:21,394
The whole,
the whole place was..
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00:05:21,571 --> 00:05:22,903
Well it's,
it's too horrible
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00:05:23,073 --> 00:05:25,110
to describe. Dreadful.
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00:05:25,283 --> 00:05:28,492
It's, I think
the first modern..
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00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,288
...expression of..
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00:05:32,290 --> 00:05:34,407
...the female body
under assault.
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00:05:34,626 --> 00:05:36,037
And in some ways
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00:05:36,211 --> 00:05:38,328
it's its most
pure expression.
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00:05:38,338 --> 00:05:41,877
Because
it is devastating.
70
00:05:42,092 --> 00:05:46,837
Women had top billing
in the '30s and '20s.
71
00:05:46,847 --> 00:05:49,430
And that slowly evaporated
during the forties.
72
00:05:49,641 --> 00:05:51,678
And by the time we got
to the end of the '50s
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00:05:51,685 --> 00:05:54,018
women were, you know,
secondary in movies.
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00:05:54,187 --> 00:05:56,019
And Hitch, sort of,
that's what the movie does
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00:05:56,022 --> 00:05:57,809
in a way, say that
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00:05:57,816 --> 00:05:59,182
he's killing off
the woman.
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00:05:59,359 --> 00:06:01,351
And it was really
the first A movie
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00:06:01,528 --> 00:06:03,110
to deal
with this kind of
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00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:06,023
horror, trashy,
tabloid stuff.
80
00:06:06,241 --> 00:06:07,698
Nobody wanted to make it
81
00:06:07,701 --> 00:06:09,158
and they went,
"Are you nuts?
82
00:06:09,327 --> 00:06:10,158
"You just did
"North by Northwest"
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00:06:10,328 --> 00:06:11,535
"this incredible hit
84
00:06:11,538 --> 00:06:12,658
"now you want to do
this like
85
00:06:12,706 --> 00:06:14,493
"black and white,
what is this thing?"
86
00:06:14,499 --> 00:06:17,458
I have just made
a motion picture
87
00:06:17,460 --> 00:06:19,452
"North By Northwest."
88
00:06:19,629 --> 00:06:21,040
"North by Northwest"
was like
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00:06:21,256 --> 00:06:24,374
the ultimate achievement
in... on every level.
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00:06:24,593 --> 00:06:26,380
It was grand entertainment,
it was classy
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00:06:26,553 --> 00:06:28,966
it had movie stars, and it,
you know, it was, it was
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00:06:29,139 --> 00:06:30,300
beautiful,
it was colorful.
93
00:06:30,515 --> 00:06:32,677
So, w... how are you gonna
follow that up
94
00:06:32,684 --> 00:06:33,720
with a prank?
95
00:06:33,894 --> 00:06:35,806
I once made a movie, uh
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00:06:35,979 --> 00:06:38,471
rather tongue-in-cheek,
called "Psycho."
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00:06:38,648 --> 00:06:39,855
- Yes.
- It was a..
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00:06:39,858 --> 00:06:41,941
It was, it was a big joke,
you know?
99
00:06:42,152 --> 00:06:43,392
And I was horrified
to find that
100
00:06:43,486 --> 00:06:45,148
some people
took it seriously.
101
00:06:45,322 --> 00:06:47,439
It was intended
to cause people
102
00:06:47,616 --> 00:06:50,233
to scream and yell
and so forth
103
00:06:50,452 --> 00:06:52,785
uh, but no more than
the screaming and yelling
104
00:06:52,996 --> 00:06:55,079
on a switchback railway.
105
00:06:55,081 --> 00:06:58,995
Those of us who work in the
horror genre rarely wear tuxedos.
106
00:06:59,002 --> 00:07:01,745
This is not a movie that
wears a tuxedo either.
107
00:07:01,755 --> 00:07:05,089
This is a movie that's very
much jeans and a T-shirt.
108
00:07:05,091 --> 00:07:08,380
But it's told by a guy
who wears a tuxedo.
109
00:07:08,386 --> 00:07:10,469
He wanted to stray
beyond his comfort zone.
110
00:07:10,639 --> 00:07:11,925
One of the things
he was up to is
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00:07:12,140 --> 00:07:14,223
"You don't know me
at all."
112
00:07:14,392 --> 00:07:17,385
And that's what "Psycho"
is really about.
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00:07:17,562 --> 00:07:19,144
What attracted you
to this one then?
114
00:07:21,399 --> 00:07:24,483
I think the murder
in the bathtub.
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00:07:24,694 --> 00:07:25,935
Coming out of the blue
116
00:07:26,112 --> 00:07:30,072
you know,
that was about all.
117
00:07:30,075 --> 00:07:34,035
Hitchcock was very, very
aware of his competition.
118
00:07:34,037 --> 00:07:37,280
He realized that Clouzot
had done the kind of movie
119
00:07:37,290 --> 00:07:40,283
that he felt that he should
and could be making.
120
00:07:40,502 --> 00:07:43,370
And of course,
when critics started
121
00:07:43,380 --> 00:07:45,793
calling Clouzot
"The French Hitchcock.."
122
00:07:45,966 --> 00:07:48,458
Well, you were invading
his territory then
123
00:07:48,635 --> 00:07:50,251
and he, believe me,
he took notice.
124
00:07:50,428 --> 00:07:51,839
"Psycho" is really
the moment
125
00:07:51,846 --> 00:07:53,462
where the gloves
come off.
126
00:07:53,473 --> 00:07:55,385
It does feel
like Hitch's revenge
127
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,637
on Hollywood
to some extent.
128
00:07:57,811 --> 00:08:00,929
In so many levels,
it's, um, his masterpiece.
129
00:08:01,106 --> 00:08:04,474
I s... continue to feel like, the movie
is an act of aggression
130
00:08:04,693 --> 00:08:07,436
against his fans,
his critics, actors.
131
00:08:07,612 --> 00:08:09,569
- Yeah.
- It's, it just feels angry.
132
00:08:09,739 --> 00:08:12,447
Like, he was hurt
and he had to hurt back.
133
00:08:12,450 --> 00:08:14,282
The sudden violence
of the shower scene
134
00:08:14,452 --> 00:08:17,695
in "Psycho"
was meaningful to him
135
00:08:17,872 --> 00:08:20,706
for reasons that dated
back you know, 20 years
136
00:08:20,875 --> 00:08:23,458
to the origins
of World War II.
137
00:08:23,628 --> 00:08:27,087
Hitchcock thought
that the UK
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00:08:27,298 --> 00:08:31,212
and the United States were
insufficiently prepared
139
00:08:31,428 --> 00:08:35,342
for the dangers and
horrors of World War II.
140
00:08:35,557 --> 00:08:39,346
There were several moments in
his movies that spoke to that.
141
00:08:39,519 --> 00:08:41,226
You can hear the bombs
falling on the streets
142
00:08:41,229 --> 00:08:43,016
and the homes.
Don't tune me out.
143
00:08:43,189 --> 00:08:45,932
Hang on a while, this is a
big story and you're a part of it.
144
00:08:46,109 --> 00:08:47,549
It's too late to do
anything here now
145
00:08:47,652 --> 00:08:49,564
except stand in the dark
and let them come.
146
00:08:49,738 --> 00:08:52,446
What's the matter
with us?
147
00:08:52,449 --> 00:08:54,361
We not only let the Nazi
do our rowing for us
148
00:08:54,367 --> 00:08:56,529
but our thinking!
149
00:08:56,536 --> 00:08:58,493
Ye Gods
and little fishes!
150
00:08:58,663 --> 00:09:00,780
One of them was
"Shadow of a Doubt"
151
00:09:00,790 --> 00:09:01,951
only about a year
and a half
152
00:09:02,125 --> 00:09:03,536
after Pearl Harbor
153
00:09:03,543 --> 00:09:06,286
set in Santa Rosa
in California.
154
00:09:06,296 --> 00:09:07,753
You can see how
in that movie
155
00:09:07,756 --> 00:09:09,839
he's kind of chastising
156
00:09:10,008 --> 00:09:13,547
this town
for being naive.
157
00:09:13,553 --> 00:09:14,669
You live in a dream.
158
00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:16,921
You're a sleepwalker,
blind.
159
00:09:17,098 --> 00:09:19,465
How do you know
what the world is like?
160
00:09:19,642 --> 00:09:22,760
Do you know the world
is a foul sty?
161
00:09:22,937 --> 00:09:24,974
Do you know if you ripped
the fronts off houses
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00:09:25,148 --> 00:09:26,684
you'd find swine?
163
00:09:26,858 --> 00:09:27,974
He was basically saying
164
00:09:27,984 --> 00:09:31,068
"America,
you were way too naive.
165
00:09:31,237 --> 00:09:34,196
"You think you're safe
in your shower, at home
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00:09:34,365 --> 00:09:37,324
"with, you know, your family
and loved ones nearby?
167
00:09:37,494 --> 00:09:40,612
No. You're not. Sorry."
168
00:09:40,789 --> 00:09:42,451
Hitchcock
had many obsessions
169
00:09:42,624 --> 00:09:44,704
but one of them that he
talked about with "The Birds"
170
00:09:44,834 --> 00:09:45,995
was the randomness
of life.
171
00:09:46,169 --> 00:09:49,333
There is no explanation
for the birds attacking.
172
00:09:49,339 --> 00:09:51,046
To him that was life.
173
00:09:51,216 --> 00:09:53,082
There you are,
everything's fine and then
174
00:09:53,259 --> 00:09:54,904
someone gets cancer and
they're dead two weeks later.
175
00:09:54,928 --> 00:09:58,012
Or your life is good and then
you get hit by a bus.
176
00:09:58,223 --> 00:10:01,512
Hitchcock was someone who,
for several years now
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00:10:01,684 --> 00:10:05,803
was showing up on people's TV sets,
on Sunday nights.
178
00:10:05,980 --> 00:10:09,189
The victim tumbled or fell
with a horrible cash.
179
00:10:09,192 --> 00:10:12,185
I think the back broke immediately
it hit the floor.
180
00:10:12,403 --> 00:10:14,440
It was, it's difficult
to describe
181
00:10:14,447 --> 00:10:16,063
the way that the, the..
182
00:10:16,074 --> 00:10:17,781
He was an icon.
183
00:10:17,784 --> 00:10:19,696
He was this sort of
184
00:10:19,869 --> 00:10:23,328
avuncular,
yet creepy guy
185
00:10:23,498 --> 00:10:28,163
who was presenting sex
and violence to Americans
186
00:10:28,336 --> 00:10:31,670
leavened with black humor,
every Sunday night.
187
00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,880
And Americans were comfortable
with him by 1960.
188
00:10:36,052 --> 00:10:38,715
If someone else
had made "Psycho"
189
00:10:38,888 --> 00:10:40,129
it's quite possible
that the reaction
190
00:10:40,140 --> 00:10:42,132
would not have been
the same.
191
00:10:42,142 --> 00:10:45,977
"Psycho" came at a very unique time
in American pop culture.
192
00:10:45,979 --> 00:10:49,347
It almost pre-dates
the turmoil and the shock
193
00:10:49,524 --> 00:10:51,265
and the trauma
that were to come
194
00:10:51,442 --> 00:10:53,559
in the 1960's
with racial violence
195
00:10:53,736 --> 00:10:56,353
with political
assassinations.
196
00:10:56,573 --> 00:10:59,065
I'm not saying that
Hitchcock anticipated it
197
00:10:59,242 --> 00:11:01,029
and knew
what he was up to.
198
00:11:01,035 --> 00:11:02,617
But what he did know
199
00:11:02,620 --> 00:11:07,081
is that he was trapped
by his past
200
00:11:07,083 --> 00:11:09,746
that it was not a time
anymore for Grace Kelly.
201
00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:12,377
It was not
a time anymore for
202
00:11:12,547 --> 00:11:16,336
what he called "Beautiful
technicolor baubles."
203
00:11:16,342 --> 00:11:18,083
When you look
at "Psycho"
204
00:11:18,094 --> 00:11:20,507
and you look at those
magnificent
205
00:11:20,722 --> 00:11:22,759
elegant, big, rich
206
00:11:22,932 --> 00:11:26,050
technicolor films
of the fifties
207
00:11:26,227 --> 00:11:29,061
you know
that something changed.
208
00:11:29,230 --> 00:11:31,017
I think that "Psycho'
209
00:11:31,024 --> 00:11:34,517
was his response
to movies changing
210
00:11:34,527 --> 00:11:37,270
and to upping the ante
211
00:11:37,488 --> 00:11:40,026
and not wanting
to be forgotten.
212
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,285
1959 is, that was the year
of "Some Like it Hot."
213
00:11:44,454 --> 00:11:48,744
"Suddenly, Last Summer,"
and "Anatomy of a Murder."
214
00:11:48,750 --> 00:11:52,243
All three of those movies
pushed boundaries.
215
00:11:52,253 --> 00:11:56,167
So, there was something
in the air, culturally speaking
216
00:11:56,341 --> 00:11:58,674
that Hollywood
was already tapping into.
217
00:12:03,932 --> 00:12:05,548
"Psycho" comes out
at this period
218
00:12:05,767 --> 00:12:07,679
where we're post
atomic age
219
00:12:07,685 --> 00:12:09,972
but pre-civil rights.
220
00:12:11,898 --> 00:12:12,684
You know,
if you think about
221
00:12:12,690 --> 00:12:15,057
the horror
movie violence
222
00:12:15,068 --> 00:12:18,061
they were science
gone wrong
223
00:12:18,279 --> 00:12:20,679
but you don't really feel like
it was going to happen to you.
224
00:12:21,950 --> 00:12:23,782
"Psycho" you felt
could happen to you.
225
00:12:23,952 --> 00:12:25,614
This was the first movie
that showed, yeah
226
00:12:25,828 --> 00:12:29,287
you can be vulnerable,
naked, alone in a shower
227
00:12:29,457 --> 00:12:31,949
and someone who is wearing
the clothes
228
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,667
of their dead mother
is going
229
00:12:33,670 --> 00:12:35,377
to come in
and just stab you
230
00:12:35,380 --> 00:12:37,497
because that's what
they're going to do.
231
00:12:39,634 --> 00:12:43,048
Americans were kind of
obsessed with domesticity.
232
00:12:43,221 --> 00:12:45,804
They wanted
to tell themselves that
233
00:12:45,974 --> 00:12:48,933
in their private personal
domestic spaces
234
00:12:49,143 --> 00:12:51,260
at least there
235
00:12:51,271 --> 00:12:53,388
they were safe.
236
00:12:53,398 --> 00:12:55,685
The Soviets
and whomever else
237
00:12:55,900 --> 00:12:57,311
they couldn't possibly
get to you
238
00:12:57,527 --> 00:12:58,938
in your bathroom!
239
00:13:00,321 --> 00:13:03,189
A few days
after "Psycho"
240
00:13:03,199 --> 00:13:07,068
begins shooting
in November of 1959
241
00:13:07,078 --> 00:13:10,242
the Clutter family
in Kansas is murdered.
242
00:13:10,248 --> 00:13:12,285
Those are the
"In Cold Blood" murders.
243
00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:13,786
You're not
living next door
244
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,043
to the Norman Rockwell
family anymore.
245
00:13:16,045 --> 00:13:17,805
You're living next door
to the Manson family.
246
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,088
This is the new,
modern American family
247
00:13:20,091 --> 00:13:21,957
which is
v... very much inspired
248
00:13:21,968 --> 00:13:23,529
Tobe Hooper's "The Texas
Chainsaw Massacre."
249
00:13:28,683 --> 00:13:33,178
The first Playboy Club
opens in Chicago.
250
00:13:33,354 --> 00:13:36,222
The most famous
sitcom stars
251
00:13:36,232 --> 00:13:37,848
of the 1950s
252
00:13:38,026 --> 00:13:42,270
Lucille Ball and Ricky
Ricardo are divorced.
253
00:13:42,447 --> 00:13:46,566
The birth control pill
is approved by the FDA.
254
00:13:46,743 --> 00:13:48,063
You could look
at the shower scene
255
00:13:48,119 --> 00:13:50,486
as this buildup of tension
of all of these things
256
00:13:50,496 --> 00:13:52,078
all of these
American fears
257
00:13:52,248 --> 00:13:54,456
in the,
of the quiet 50s.
258
00:13:54,625 --> 00:13:55,866
It's... it's all
gonna explode
259
00:13:56,044 --> 00:13:57,706
and it comes out
in this scene.
260
00:14:09,932 --> 00:14:13,266
While I was on the critic's
list in New York for review.
261
00:14:13,436 --> 00:14:17,146
The press was all invited
to the theater
262
00:14:17,148 --> 00:14:20,562
the day it opened at 10:00
or 10:30 in the morning
263
00:14:20,735 --> 00:14:22,192
with the
first performance.
264
00:14:22,362 --> 00:14:25,275
As you went in,
Hitchcock's voice was
265
00:14:25,281 --> 00:14:28,149
blaring
on loudspeakers saying
266
00:14:28,326 --> 00:14:31,569
"Nobody will be allowed
in after the picture starts
267
00:14:31,788 --> 00:14:34,622
and please don't reveal
the ending."
268
00:14:34,791 --> 00:14:37,829
Before "Psycho,"
you know, movies for
269
00:14:37,835 --> 00:14:40,578
as a form of entertainment were
relatively disposable.
270
00:14:40,588 --> 00:14:42,955
There was a tremendous,
compared to today
271
00:14:43,132 --> 00:14:46,091
a tremendous coming and
going in movie theaters.
272
00:14:46,260 --> 00:14:50,550
And Hitchcock brilliantly
said we don't want
273
00:14:50,556 --> 00:14:53,924
anyone coming in after the
beginning of this film.
274
00:14:54,102 --> 00:14:57,266
It changed the way films
are exhibited.
275
00:14:57,271 --> 00:15:00,480
The reason was because
the leading lady, Janet Leigh
276
00:15:00,650 --> 00:15:02,858
was killed off a third
of the way through
277
00:15:03,027 --> 00:15:05,360
I didn't want people
whispering to each other
278
00:15:05,530 --> 00:15:07,567
"When is Janet Leigh
coming on?"
279
00:15:09,117 --> 00:15:11,734
He wanted to build
anticipation.
280
00:15:11,911 --> 00:15:14,119
The bathroom.
281
00:15:14,330 --> 00:15:17,198
Something terrible
happens in a bathroom.
282
00:15:17,375 --> 00:15:18,866
We know this
from the trailer.
283
00:15:18,876 --> 00:15:20,020
We don't know
it's Janet Leigh
284
00:15:20,044 --> 00:15:22,036
because it's Vera Miles
in the trailer
285
00:15:22,213 --> 00:15:23,875
and not Janet Leigh.
286
00:15:26,259 --> 00:15:28,467
The minute
the curtain opened
287
00:15:28,636 --> 00:15:31,549
and started stabbing
288
00:15:31,722 --> 00:15:36,342
there was, there was
a sustained shriek
289
00:15:36,352 --> 00:15:37,352
from the audience.
290
00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:41,722
Like that, cons... you,
uh, you couldn't hear
291
00:15:41,732 --> 00:15:43,724
anything
of the soundtrack
292
00:15:43,734 --> 00:15:47,068
through the entire
shower scene.
293
00:15:47,071 --> 00:15:48,903
So you had the screams
from Janet Leigh
294
00:15:48,906 --> 00:15:50,317
the screams
from all the women
295
00:15:50,491 --> 00:15:52,403
surrounding you
in the theater
296
00:15:52,577 --> 00:15:54,337
and the high shrieking
strings from Herrmann.
297
00:15:54,370 --> 00:15:57,534
That must have been
total mayhem.
298
00:15:57,540 --> 00:16:01,159
It was actually the first time
in the history of movies
299
00:16:01,335 --> 00:16:04,123
where it wasn't safe to be
in the movie theater.
300
00:16:04,338 --> 00:16:06,876
And when I walked out
into Times Square
301
00:16:07,049 --> 00:16:08,961
at noon..
302
00:16:09,135 --> 00:16:10,671
...I felt
I had been raped.
303
00:16:15,183 --> 00:16:17,891
In 1895,
when the Lumiere Brothers
304
00:16:18,060 --> 00:16:22,555
really first showed film
to an audience
305
00:16:22,773 --> 00:16:24,605
one of the fragments
they showed was
306
00:16:24,609 --> 00:16:28,774
of a train pulling
into a station.
307
00:16:28,779 --> 00:16:30,315
And the,
the legend has it
308
00:16:30,323 --> 00:16:31,842
they thought the train
was going to hit them
309
00:16:31,866 --> 00:16:33,949
and they were screaming
and it was like
310
00:16:33,951 --> 00:16:35,192
caused a... a
stampede of people
311
00:16:35,369 --> 00:16:36,780
trying to evacuate this
312
00:16:36,787 --> 00:16:38,119
this room
that it was screened in.
313
00:16:38,289 --> 00:16:41,032
They did not, they didn't
understand the concept.
314
00:16:41,209 --> 00:16:42,369
You know,
"Psycho" comes along
315
00:16:42,418 --> 00:16:44,876
and has a similar
kind of impact.
316
00:16:45,046 --> 00:16:46,708
It's the only movie
in my childhood
317
00:16:46,881 --> 00:16:48,998
that my mom wouldn't
let me go and see.
318
00:16:49,008 --> 00:16:50,590
Which was kind
of ridiculous
319
00:16:50,593 --> 00:16:52,960
because I was seeing
nothing but horror films
320
00:16:53,137 --> 00:16:55,675
every single weekend,
two of them, in fact.
321
00:16:55,848 --> 00:16:58,966
But "Psycho?"
No. I couldn't go.
322
00:16:58,976 --> 00:17:00,245
As a kid when
I would hear about it
323
00:17:00,269 --> 00:17:01,389
I thought the name
was cycle.
324
00:17:01,479 --> 00:17:03,391
Like it was about some
killer on a motorcycle.
325
00:17:03,606 --> 00:17:06,974
But, um, I actually got,
got this Super 8 version
326
00:17:06,984 --> 00:17:09,021
and just,
like, constantly ran
327
00:17:09,028 --> 00:17:10,439
the movie over
and over again.
328
00:17:12,323 --> 00:17:15,031
When audiences saw this
329
00:17:15,034 --> 00:17:17,026
really
likeable character.
330
00:17:17,203 --> 00:17:21,197
Someone who is quite relatable in
terms of, I need more money
331
00:17:21,207 --> 00:17:24,791
I'm growing older,
the man that I love won't marry me.
332
00:17:24,961 --> 00:17:26,121
They, they
were really hooked.
333
00:17:26,254 --> 00:17:29,213
Oh, Sam,
let's get married.
334
00:17:33,511 --> 00:17:36,049
Yeah, and live with me
in a storeroom
335
00:17:36,222 --> 00:17:38,384
behind a hardware store
in Fairvale.
336
00:17:38,391 --> 00:17:39,757
We'll have
lots of laughs.
337
00:17:39,934 --> 00:17:41,971
"Of course she's going
to survive the movie!
338
00:17:42,144 --> 00:17:44,261
It's Janet Leigh."
339
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,847
Instead,
she takes a shower.
340
00:17:46,857 --> 00:17:49,224
Out of nowhere,
she's murdered
341
00:17:49,443 --> 00:17:52,436
by... an old lady?
342
00:17:52,613 --> 00:17:54,229
Who I can't even see?
343
00:17:54,448 --> 00:17:56,735
What the fuck
is going on here?
344
00:17:56,951 --> 00:18:00,911
He has broken the
covenant of filmmaker and audience
345
00:18:01,122 --> 00:18:04,741
and the audience
cannot wait to see more.
346
00:18:04,750 --> 00:18:07,538
He was
a respected director
347
00:18:07,712 --> 00:18:11,331
and you know, she was
a bona fide movie star
348
00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:14,048
and I think you kind of
get into the thrill
349
00:18:14,051 --> 00:18:17,340
of that
possible shockwave
350
00:18:17,513 --> 00:18:19,721
which obviously
happened.
351
00:18:19,724 --> 00:18:22,182
And I think
that moment signaled
352
00:18:22,351 --> 00:18:23,887
new American cinema.
353
00:18:24,061 --> 00:18:25,973
Maybe new world cinema,
in certain ways.
354
00:18:26,188 --> 00:18:27,874
Now I don't know that
that had ever been done.
355
00:18:27,898 --> 00:18:29,434
- Right.
- Uh, you know, uh..
356
00:18:29,609 --> 00:18:32,192
Or maybe there's some
obscure Czechoslovakian film
357
00:18:32,194 --> 00:18:33,059
that did it and there's
a guy going like..
358
00:18:35,114 --> 00:18:36,776
- I did it first!
- Yeah.
359
00:18:36,991 --> 00:18:39,108
I can think of things that
culturally have got us
360
00:18:39,285 --> 00:18:41,026
thinking about that
structure for instance
361
00:18:41,245 --> 00:18:43,362
um, the first season
of "Game of Thrones"
362
00:18:43,539 --> 00:18:45,155
in which
our most appealing
363
00:18:45,374 --> 00:18:46,785
character of Ned Stark
364
00:18:47,001 --> 00:18:49,789
is just sort of cruelly
killed in front of us.
365
00:18:53,716 --> 00:18:56,925
Culturally, we had to be
reminded of the power
366
00:18:56,927 --> 00:18:58,543
of that
narrative trope.
367
00:18:58,763 --> 00:19:01,003
The reality is, he used the whole
first half of the movie
368
00:19:01,182 --> 00:19:03,014
as a ruse to get you
to this house.
369
00:19:03,184 --> 00:19:04,661
And the only way you're
going to get to this house
370
00:19:04,685 --> 00:19:07,428
is if you believe
that she's someone who's
371
00:19:07,605 --> 00:19:09,346
stolen $40,000.
372
00:19:09,357 --> 00:19:13,226
And that she's gotten
off on the wrong freeway exit
373
00:19:13,402 --> 00:19:16,440
and is on this little tiny road
where nobody goes by.
374
00:19:16,447 --> 00:19:18,247
There's a lot of things
he's saying here about
375
00:19:18,366 --> 00:19:21,450
our society that was
changing at that point.
376
00:19:21,619 --> 00:19:23,110
We were trying to get
as fast as we could
377
00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:25,954
from Los Angeles to
Chicago or New York.
378
00:19:26,123 --> 00:19:27,614
And going into
these little towns
379
00:19:27,792 --> 00:19:30,000
was not
necessary anymore.
380
00:19:30,169 --> 00:19:31,605
And Norman doesn't even
seem to mind.
381
00:19:31,629 --> 00:19:32,981
He's ready to change
the bed sheets
382
00:19:33,005 --> 00:19:34,121
every day
with nobody there.
383
00:19:34,131 --> 00:19:36,373
One by one,
you drop the formalities.
384
00:19:36,550 --> 00:19:38,416
I shouldn't even bother
changing the sheets
385
00:19:38,427 --> 00:19:40,589
but old habits die hard.
386
00:19:42,765 --> 00:19:45,929
When she's driving off
with the $40,000
387
00:19:45,935 --> 00:19:50,100
she's on the road
and she's in the west.
388
00:19:50,272 --> 00:19:53,265
There's something fundamentally
American about that dating back
389
00:19:53,442 --> 00:19:55,399
all the way
to Manifest Destiny.
390
00:19:55,569 --> 00:20:00,109
"Go west! Find your fate,
find your freedom."
391
00:20:00,282 --> 00:20:02,490
Marion tries
to do just that.
392
00:20:02,493 --> 00:20:05,281
And that's where
she meets her fate.
393
00:20:11,127 --> 00:20:13,164
It's interesting to
compare the novel "Psycho"
394
00:20:13,170 --> 00:20:15,036
with the movie
"Psycho."
395
00:20:15,214 --> 00:20:16,876
The shower scene
is a lot different.
396
00:20:17,091 --> 00:20:18,502
It's really brief
in the book.
397
00:20:18,509 --> 00:20:20,842
So on page 28
398
00:20:21,011 --> 00:20:22,798
um, here's
the shower scene.
399
00:20:27,309 --> 00:20:29,301
"The roar
was deafening.
400
00:20:29,478 --> 00:20:32,437
"The room was beginning
to steam up.
401
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,602
"That's why she didn't
hear the door open
402
00:20:34,775 --> 00:20:37,939
"or note the sound
of footsteps.
403
00:20:38,112 --> 00:20:40,354
"And at first when the
shower curtains parted
404
00:20:40,364 --> 00:20:43,152
"the steam
obscured the face.
405
00:20:43,159 --> 00:20:45,242
"Then she did
see it there
406
00:20:45,453 --> 00:20:48,116
"just a face, peering
through the curtains
407
00:20:48,289 --> 00:20:50,622
"hanging in mid-air
like a mask.
408
00:20:50,624 --> 00:20:52,616
"A half-scarf
concealed the hair
409
00:20:52,626 --> 00:20:55,289
"and the glassy eyes
stared inhumanly.
410
00:20:55,463 --> 00:20:58,376
"But it wasn't a mask.
It couldn't be.
411
00:20:58,549 --> 00:21:00,711
"The skin had been
powdered dead white
412
00:21:00,885 --> 00:21:04,845
"and two hectic spots of rouge
centered on the cheekbones.
413
00:21:04,847 --> 00:21:08,306
"It wasn't a mask, it was
the face of a crazy woman.
414
00:21:08,309 --> 00:21:11,177
"Mary started to scream
and then the curtain parted further
415
00:21:11,395 --> 00:21:14,513
"and a hand appeared,
holding a butcher knife.
416
00:21:14,690 --> 00:21:18,650
"It was the knife, that a
moment later cut off her scream..
417
00:21:18,861 --> 00:21:20,102
...and her head."
418
00:21:26,744 --> 00:21:29,407
The fact that Hitchcock
brought Saul Bass in to work
419
00:21:29,580 --> 00:21:33,164
on the shower scene as its
own, kind of independent thing
420
00:21:33,334 --> 00:21:35,917
uh, says to me
that he knew
421
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,536
that, uh, he had to do
something special
422
00:21:37,713 --> 00:21:38,713
with the shower scene.
423
00:21:40,090 --> 00:21:42,582
"Interior,
Mary in shower.
424
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,298
"We see the bathroom
door being pushed slowly open.
425
00:21:47,348 --> 00:21:50,466
"The noise of the shower
drowns out any sound.
426
00:21:50,643 --> 00:21:53,431
"The door is then slowly
and carefully closed.
427
00:21:53,604 --> 00:21:55,186
"And we see
the shadow of a woman
428
00:21:55,356 --> 00:21:57,689
"fall across
the shower curtain.
429
00:21:57,858 --> 00:22:00,350
"Mary's back is turned
to the curtain.
430
00:22:00,569 --> 00:22:03,312
"The white brightness
of the bathroom is almost blinding.
431
00:22:03,489 --> 00:22:05,151
"Suddenly we see
the hand reach up
432
00:22:05,324 --> 00:22:07,782
"grasp the shower curtain,
rip it aside.
433
00:22:07,952 --> 00:22:11,241
"Cut to Mary,
extreme close up.
434
00:22:11,455 --> 00:22:13,447
"As she turns
in response to the feel
435
00:22:13,624 --> 00:22:16,412
"and sound of the shower curtain
being torn aside.
436
00:22:16,585 --> 00:22:20,078
"A look of pure horror
erupts in her face.
437
00:22:20,089 --> 00:22:21,671
"A low, terrible groan
438
00:22:21,674 --> 00:22:24,417
"begins to rise up
out of her throat.
439
00:22:24,593 --> 00:22:26,630
"A hand comes
in the shot.
440
00:22:26,637 --> 00:22:28,720
"The hand holds
an enormous bread knife.
441
00:22:28,931 --> 00:22:31,048
"The flint of the blade
shatters the screen
442
00:22:31,058 --> 00:22:34,017
"to an almost total
silver blankness.
443
00:22:34,186 --> 00:22:35,347
"The slashing.
444
00:22:35,563 --> 00:22:37,930
"An impression
of a knife slashing
445
00:22:37,940 --> 00:22:40,774
"as if tearing at the very screen,
ripping the film.
446
00:22:40,776 --> 00:22:43,894
"Over it the brief
gulps of screaming.
447
00:22:44,071 --> 00:22:46,905
"And then silence.
448
00:22:47,074 --> 00:22:50,317
"And then the dreadful
thump as Mary's body falls in the tub.
449
00:22:50,494 --> 00:22:53,032
"Reverse angle,
the blank whiteness
450
00:22:53,205 --> 00:22:55,071
"the blur
of the shower water
451
00:22:55,249 --> 00:22:57,741
"the hand pulling
the shower curtain back.
452
00:22:57,751 --> 00:23:00,915
"We catch one flicker
of a glimpse of the murderer.
453
00:23:00,921 --> 00:23:04,335
"A woman, her face
contorted with madness
454
00:23:04,508 --> 00:23:06,625
"her head wild
with hair
455
00:23:06,635 --> 00:23:09,002
"as if she were wearing
a fright-wig.
456
00:23:09,013 --> 00:23:11,096
"And then we see
only the curtain
457
00:23:11,265 --> 00:23:13,097
"closed across the tub
458
00:23:13,267 --> 00:23:15,475
"and hear the rush
of the shower water.
459
00:23:15,686 --> 00:23:19,475
"Above the shower-bar we see
the bathroom door open again
460
00:23:19,648 --> 00:23:22,857
"and after a moment we hear t
he sound of the front door slamming.
461
00:23:23,027 --> 00:23:26,145
"Cut to the dead body.
462
00:23:26,322 --> 00:23:28,655
"Lying half in,
half out of the tub.
463
00:23:28,824 --> 00:23:31,988
"The head tumbled over,
touching the floor.
464
00:23:32,161 --> 00:23:36,326
"The hair wet, one eye
wide open as if popped.
465
00:23:36,332 --> 00:23:40,417
"One arm lying limp and
wet along the tile floor.
466
00:23:40,628 --> 00:23:42,665
"Coming down
the side of the tub
467
00:23:42,671 --> 00:23:45,459
"running thick and dark
along the porcelain
468
00:23:45,674 --> 00:23:47,666
"we see many small
threads of blood.
469
00:23:49,261 --> 00:23:51,127
"Camera moves away
from the body
470
00:23:51,138 --> 00:23:54,176
"travels slowly across
the bathroom
471
00:23:54,183 --> 00:23:57,676
past the toilet,
out into the bedroom."
472
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,983
I think that the shower
scene elevated film.
473
00:24:09,156 --> 00:24:12,320
Not the horror genre specifically,
but film making in general.
474
00:24:12,493 --> 00:24:15,201
Over and over again and it
keeps showing you new things.
475
00:24:15,371 --> 00:24:18,535
I think it's one of those
spectacular pieces of work.
476
00:24:18,707 --> 00:24:22,542
The film is moving
inexorably to that scene.
477
00:24:22,544 --> 00:24:26,083
You don't know it as a,
as a viewer.
478
00:24:26,090 --> 00:24:28,332
Sam, this
is the last time.
479
00:24:29,969 --> 00:24:32,677
I pay, too.
480
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,842
They also pay
who meet in hotel rooms.
481
00:24:36,392 --> 00:24:38,475
There are plenty of motels
in this area.
482
00:24:38,477 --> 00:24:41,686
You should've,
I mean, just to be safe.
483
00:24:41,855 --> 00:24:45,940
M... mother. My, my, my mother,
uh, what is the phrase?
484
00:24:47,486 --> 00:24:50,194
She isn't
q... quite herself today.
485
00:24:50,364 --> 00:24:53,232
Hitchcock was amazing
at setting everything up.
486
00:24:53,409 --> 00:24:57,870
When she's packing
to go to see her boyfriend
487
00:24:58,038 --> 00:24:59,904
you see the showerhead
in the background.
488
00:25:00,082 --> 00:25:01,539
And it's very specific
489
00:25:01,709 --> 00:25:03,496
the shower is right over
her shoulder.
490
00:25:03,669 --> 00:25:05,376
You know, when it
comes to Norman, when he
491
00:25:05,546 --> 00:25:07,458
t... t, he talks about the
bathroom and he like stutters
492
00:25:07,464 --> 00:25:08,650
and he can't
really say "Toilet"
493
00:25:08,674 --> 00:25:09,754
you know,
or, or "Bathroom."
494
00:25:11,010 --> 00:25:12,126
And the, uh..
495
00:25:15,014 --> 00:25:16,175
...over there..
496
00:25:16,348 --> 00:25:18,214
- The bathroom.
- Yeah.
497
00:25:18,392 --> 00:25:19,953
That's what's, what's
great about Hitchcock.
498
00:25:19,977 --> 00:25:21,177
I mean, he always,
really, like
499
00:25:21,270 --> 00:25:23,182
tunes into those
c... character moments.
500
00:25:23,355 --> 00:25:25,221
That desperate drive
at the beginning.
501
00:25:25,232 --> 00:25:26,598
It's crazy good.
502
00:25:26,775 --> 00:25:28,016
The notion
of getting clean
503
00:25:28,235 --> 00:25:29,271
that's her ark.
504
00:25:29,445 --> 00:25:30,445
She can't see because
505
00:25:30,529 --> 00:25:32,566
of the density
of the water
506
00:25:32,573 --> 00:25:33,573
which
is really beautiful
507
00:25:33,699 --> 00:25:37,318
because she's drowning
in her worry and fear.
508
00:25:37,327 --> 00:25:39,535
The slashing
of the wipers
509
00:25:39,538 --> 00:25:41,530
presages the slashing of,
of the knife.
510
00:25:41,707 --> 00:25:43,949
It sort of,
it's a very violent and wet
511
00:25:44,126 --> 00:25:47,290
and sloshy, sharp,
stabbing motion.
512
00:25:47,504 --> 00:25:49,086
And it's a long build-up
513
00:25:49,256 --> 00:25:51,839
but we have no idea
that the rain that's going to
514
00:25:51,842 --> 00:25:53,253
come down upon
her later is going to
515
00:25:53,427 --> 00:25:55,589
include her own blood.
516
00:25:55,763 --> 00:25:57,299
I certainly
get the sensation
517
00:25:57,514 --> 00:25:59,631
that the shower scene
was something that Hitchcock
518
00:25:59,641 --> 00:26:01,601
had probably been
working towards all of his life.
519
00:26:07,983 --> 00:26:09,474
Is he cleaning house?
520
00:26:09,651 --> 00:26:12,268
He's washing down
the bathroom walls.
521
00:26:12,446 --> 00:26:14,563
Hmm! Must've
splattered a lot.
522
00:26:17,242 --> 00:26:19,780
Well, why not? That's
what we're all thinking.
523
00:26:19,995 --> 00:26:21,598
He killed her in there,
he has to clean up
524
00:26:21,622 --> 00:26:22,954
those stains
before he leaves.
525
00:26:22,956 --> 00:26:24,851
W... you really can't talk
about the shower scene
526
00:26:24,875 --> 00:26:26,867
without talking about
the rest of the film.
527
00:26:26,877 --> 00:26:29,585
Without the parlor scene,
obviously
528
00:26:29,588 --> 00:26:31,625
the shower scene
doesn't really work nearly as well
529
00:26:31,799 --> 00:26:33,711
because the parlor scene
is a sort of really sad
530
00:26:33,717 --> 00:26:35,333
beautiful connection
531
00:26:35,511 --> 00:26:37,924
that comes
before this savagery.
532
00:26:38,097 --> 00:26:39,713
Is your time so empty?
533
00:26:39,890 --> 00:26:41,176
No. Uh..
534
00:26:42,810 --> 00:26:45,143
Well, I... I
run the office.
535
00:26:45,312 --> 00:26:48,350
And, uh, tend the cabins
and grounds and, and do little
536
00:26:48,524 --> 00:26:50,607
uh, errands
for my mother
537
00:26:50,818 --> 00:26:54,402
the ones she allows I
might be capable of doing.
538
00:26:54,571 --> 00:26:55,982
Do you go out
with friends?
539
00:26:59,576 --> 00:27:01,533
Well, a... a boy's best
friend is his mother.
540
00:27:01,745 --> 00:27:06,206
There's a very loaded preamble
to the shower scene.
541
00:27:06,375 --> 00:27:08,332
Wouldn't it be better
if you put her..
542
00:27:10,212 --> 00:27:11,703
...some place..
543
00:27:15,509 --> 00:27:18,968
You mean an institution?
A madhouse?
544
00:27:18,971 --> 00:27:20,712
Look how still he is.
545
00:27:20,931 --> 00:27:24,424
Whereas before he was
fidgety and moving around
546
00:27:24,601 --> 00:27:27,264
suddenly he
became very still.
547
00:27:27,437 --> 00:27:29,165
Maybe that's the moment
he decided to kill her.
548
00:27:29,189 --> 00:27:30,430
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
549
00:27:30,607 --> 00:27:32,564
Yeah, he's super
confident now.
550
00:27:32,734 --> 00:27:34,851
Yeah, he's barely
moving his head.
551
00:27:36,530 --> 00:27:38,772
- Just his eyes
- Wow.
552
00:27:38,782 --> 00:27:41,490
Oh, he's so angry.
553
00:27:41,493 --> 00:27:43,735
- And she just got terrified.
- Yeah.
554
00:27:43,745 --> 00:27:45,236
Oh, y... you're not, uh
555
00:27:45,414 --> 00:27:47,094
you're not going back
to your room already?
556
00:27:47,207 --> 00:27:50,666
"Perhaps I'll go back
to my room now, Norman.
557
00:27:50,669 --> 00:27:52,786
"It's been lovely
to chat.
558
00:27:52,796 --> 00:27:54,458
Terribly sorry
about your loneliness."
559
00:27:55,966 --> 00:27:58,458
Whoa!
560
00:27:58,468 --> 00:28:01,427
This is the first moment
that you're with him and not her.
561
00:28:01,430 --> 00:28:03,217
Yeah, she literally
walks away from camera.
562
00:28:03,432 --> 00:28:05,032
- Yeah, right.
- And then we're with him.
563
00:28:05,058 --> 00:28:06,515
- My job here is done.
- Yeah.
564
00:28:06,518 --> 00:28:08,555
I'm no longer the
protagonist of this story.
565
00:28:08,729 --> 00:28:11,346
There was a private
supper here.
566
00:28:12,733 --> 00:28:14,440
And, uh..
567
00:28:14,610 --> 00:28:16,818
Oh, by the way,
this picture..
568
00:28:18,113 --> 00:28:20,400
...has great
significance..
569
00:28:22,284 --> 00:28:23,991
...because..
570
00:28:26,955 --> 00:28:29,618
Uh, let's go along
to cabin number one.
571
00:28:33,712 --> 00:28:36,455
The painting
that Mr. Bates removed
572
00:28:36,632 --> 00:28:39,466
to become the peeping Tom,
was actually
573
00:28:39,468 --> 00:28:42,381
a 16th or early
17th century painting.
574
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,008
"Susanna and the Elders"
is actually a morality story
575
00:28:48,018 --> 00:28:51,762
about a virtuous woman
who bathed in her garden
576
00:28:51,939 --> 00:28:55,398
and was spied on
by two elder men.
577
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,609
And the theme burgeoned
578
00:28:58,612 --> 00:29:02,196
possibly as the result
of counter reformatory motives.
579
00:29:02,366 --> 00:29:04,779
It was either that
or it was simply an excuse
580
00:29:04,952 --> 00:29:09,071
for painting
female nudity.
581
00:29:09,289 --> 00:29:12,248
Now, the interesting thing
about it is, it's about adultery.
582
00:29:12,251 --> 00:29:14,413
And it's fascinating
because
583
00:29:14,419 --> 00:29:16,661
Mary,
who's in the shower
584
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,543
is kind
of cleansing herself
585
00:29:19,549 --> 00:29:23,213
of committing adultery
with a married man.
586
00:29:23,387 --> 00:29:25,424
In art history,
there were about three
587
00:29:25,597 --> 00:29:27,930
or four different phases
of how artists
588
00:29:27,933 --> 00:29:31,643
depicted Susanna
and the Elders.
589
00:29:31,812 --> 00:29:35,897
Lucas van Leyden shows
the two Elders in prominence
590
00:29:35,899 --> 00:29:39,188
whereas
the small Susanna
591
00:29:39,361 --> 00:29:41,273
is bathing
in the far distance.
592
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,488
But by the time
you get to Tintoretto
593
00:29:43,657 --> 00:29:45,865
she's full frontal.
594
00:29:46,034 --> 00:29:48,196
Rubens begins
to take and probe
595
00:29:48,203 --> 00:29:51,412
the psychological
intensity of the moment.
596
00:29:51,415 --> 00:29:55,534
Rembrandt's using the power of
lightness and darkness
597
00:29:55,711 --> 00:29:58,374
of highlights
to enhance the drama.
598
00:29:58,588 --> 00:30:00,170
The interesting thing
about the painting
599
00:30:00,340 --> 00:30:03,799
is that you've got full
frontal nudity of Susanna
600
00:30:03,969 --> 00:30:07,053
and yet the two elders
are not simply looking at her
601
00:30:07,055 --> 00:30:09,763
they're actually groping
and violating her.
602
00:30:09,766 --> 00:30:12,554
It's an almost
a rape scene
603
00:30:12,561 --> 00:30:14,803
that's taking place
before our eyes.
604
00:30:14,980 --> 00:30:17,848
It's... it's an amazing painting
that he picked.
605
00:30:17,858 --> 00:30:20,521
It's not any old
baroque painting.
606
00:30:20,527 --> 00:30:23,019
It's voyeurism.
607
00:30:23,030 --> 00:30:25,693
He removes the
voyeuristic painting
608
00:30:25,866 --> 00:30:29,325
to become the voyeur
looking in on the shower.
609
00:30:29,494 --> 00:30:32,157
He could have picked
from 50 different examples
610
00:30:32,164 --> 00:30:34,204
but he chose this one because
it had the most amount
611
00:30:34,291 --> 00:30:37,500
of information that he
could use for his film.
612
00:30:39,588 --> 00:30:41,454
I love that there is
a hole in the wall
613
00:30:41,465 --> 00:30:43,422
the size of his face
614
00:30:43,425 --> 00:30:46,463
which tells you that he's been doing
this more than once
615
00:30:46,636 --> 00:30:48,798
and he's made it
comfortable for himself.
616
00:30:48,972 --> 00:30:51,180
The notion that he's
looking just as you are
617
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:53,137
it binds you with him.
618
00:30:53,143 --> 00:30:55,510
And when you eliminate
those walls
619
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,058
and you're now
watching him
620
00:30:58,065 --> 00:31:01,308
and you're watching, and
you're watching together
621
00:31:01,485 --> 00:31:03,772
then you are
in a new place
622
00:31:03,779 --> 00:31:05,896
where things can get
a lot scarier.
623
00:31:06,114 --> 00:31:08,527
"Psycho" is delineated
from the other works
624
00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:12,614
of his oeuvre
by those gazes.
625
00:31:12,621 --> 00:31:14,203
The birds
are looking at us
626
00:31:14,206 --> 00:31:15,697
each individual bird
627
00:31:15,874 --> 00:31:18,332
dead bird,
is looking at us.
628
00:31:18,502 --> 00:31:21,586
Mother is looking at us
from eyeless sockets.
629
00:31:21,755 --> 00:31:24,793
Dead Marion
with her eye open.
630
00:31:24,966 --> 00:31:27,504
The stare includes
and indicts us
631
00:31:27,511 --> 00:31:30,379
at the same time.
632
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:32,927
It's a mirror image,
you know, it goes both ways.
633
00:31:32,933 --> 00:31:34,799
We're looking into
the eyes of death
634
00:31:34,976 --> 00:31:37,218
and the eyes of death
are looking at us.
635
00:31:37,396 --> 00:31:40,730
And it's inclusive
and horrifying.
636
00:31:40,732 --> 00:31:43,816
The laughing
and the tears..
637
00:31:43,819 --> 00:31:46,186
...and the cruel eyes
studying you.
638
00:31:46,363 --> 00:31:47,570
My mother, there?
639
00:31:49,908 --> 00:31:52,525
God is studying you,
because there are a number of
640
00:31:52,702 --> 00:31:55,069
you know, God point-of-view
shots in "Psycho"
641
00:31:55,288 --> 00:31:57,496
just as there are
in "The Birds."
642
00:31:57,666 --> 00:32:00,579
Hitchcock's God
is cruel and arbitrary
643
00:32:00,585 --> 00:32:03,453
a bit like some kind of
bird of prey or raptor
644
00:32:04,631 --> 00:32:06,543
which is, uh, gazing down
rather coldly and disinterestedly
645
00:32:06,550 --> 00:32:08,382
on its human subjects.
646
00:32:10,429 --> 00:32:13,297
In the shower sequence,
the violence is directed
647
00:32:13,306 --> 00:32:16,549
and that knife
is coming towards us
648
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,894
so we're being punished
for being the voyeurs.
649
00:32:20,063 --> 00:32:22,180
There are consequences
to watching
650
00:32:22,190 --> 00:32:24,022
and being watched.
651
00:32:24,192 --> 00:32:25,979
In the character
of James Stewart
652
00:32:26,194 --> 00:32:29,562
if we identify
with him in "Rear Window"
653
00:32:29,739 --> 00:32:32,948
has a very literal, great fall
at the end of it
654
00:32:32,951 --> 00:32:35,238
where he breaks
the other leg
655
00:32:35,245 --> 00:32:39,285
meaning another six,
eight months of pain and itchiness
656
00:32:39,499 --> 00:32:41,582
and not being able
to screw Grace Kelly.
657
00:32:41,751 --> 00:32:45,495
All of those things are
pertinent to Hitchcock.
658
00:32:45,672 --> 00:32:48,039
I'll bet you
nine people out of ten..
659
00:32:49,718 --> 00:32:53,177
...if they see
something across
660
00:32:53,180 --> 00:32:56,969
like a woman undressing
and going to bed
661
00:32:57,142 --> 00:33:00,010
or even sometimes
a man puttering around
662
00:33:00,187 --> 00:33:02,224
his room
doing nothing..
663
00:33:05,066 --> 00:33:07,228
...nine people out of ten
will stay and look.
664
00:33:09,613 --> 00:33:11,445
They won't turn away
and say
665
00:33:11,448 --> 00:33:13,235
"It's none
of my business"
666
00:33:13,408 --> 00:33:15,741
and pull down
their own curtain.
667
00:33:15,744 --> 00:33:17,076
They won't do it.
668
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,827
In the beginning
in the movie
669
00:33:21,833 --> 00:33:24,200
you're flying into a window
with the blinds closed
670
00:33:24,377 --> 00:33:27,245
so you're starting off
as a voyeur.
671
00:33:27,422 --> 00:33:29,414
And if you think about it,
if the movie's opening
672
00:33:29,591 --> 00:33:31,423
from the point of view
of a fly
673
00:33:31,426 --> 00:33:32,712
it changes
the whole context
674
00:33:32,886 --> 00:33:34,297
of what the meaning
of the movie is.
675
00:33:34,471 --> 00:33:36,758
I'm not even going
to swat that fly.
676
00:33:36,932 --> 00:33:40,141
I hope they are watching.
They'll see.
677
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:43,769
They'll see and they'll
know and they'll say
678
00:33:43,939 --> 00:33:47,353
"Why, she wouldn't
even harm a fly."
679
00:33:47,526 --> 00:33:50,064
I think the voyeurism
actually has a payoff
680
00:33:50,237 --> 00:33:51,899
in the shower scene.
681
00:33:51,905 --> 00:33:55,319
It's Hitchcock's way of setting
the bomb under the table
682
00:33:55,325 --> 00:33:57,658
which is something he liked
to do to create dramatic irony.
683
00:34:43,623 --> 00:34:45,080
Hello?
684
00:34:45,083 --> 00:34:47,416
I think at this point,
we start to wonder
685
00:34:47,419 --> 00:34:49,188
what's going on in his head
and what's gonna happen
686
00:34:49,212 --> 00:34:51,829
because of this look
on his face.
687
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,127
This is so interesting,
as an actor, what is he playing.
688
00:34:54,301 --> 00:34:57,385
He's playing, "Oh, God, don't let
my mother kill this girl."
689
00:34:57,387 --> 00:35:01,347
Norman Bates is presented
in all these little
690
00:35:01,516 --> 00:35:04,805
you know, encapsulated moments
throughout the film
691
00:35:04,978 --> 00:35:07,058
and in much the same way that
the murder is presented
692
00:35:07,230 --> 00:35:10,064
in encapsulated
moments of images
693
00:35:10,233 --> 00:35:12,020
and compositions
cut together.
694
00:35:12,235 --> 00:35:16,400
So, I think that
th... the movie is
695
00:35:16,406 --> 00:35:19,319
it's about
fragmentation.
696
00:35:19,326 --> 00:35:21,363
It is fragmentation.
697
00:35:24,331 --> 00:35:26,698
Norman goes
up to the house.
698
00:35:26,708 --> 00:35:29,041
It's very important
that the audience
699
00:35:29,044 --> 00:35:31,161
sees him leave
700
00:35:31,379 --> 00:35:34,497
because he is reacting
to a third character
701
00:35:34,507 --> 00:35:36,715
that we think
is in the house
702
00:35:36,885 --> 00:35:39,502
mother, but that
is really in his mind.
703
00:35:41,931 --> 00:35:43,923
He goes to the stairs
and he looks up and he looks like
704
00:35:43,933 --> 00:35:47,176
he's sad 'cause he realizes mom's
not at home upstairs.
705
00:35:47,354 --> 00:35:49,220
Then he goes and flops
into the kitchen
706
00:35:49,397 --> 00:35:51,810
like a dejected
little school boy.
707
00:35:51,983 --> 00:35:55,897
Then he sits there like, "Oh rats,
I can't have dinner with
708
00:35:56,071 --> 00:35:57,812
the lady I want
to have dinner with."
709
00:35:58,031 --> 00:36:00,899
I imagine he must have done that a lot
when mother was alive.
710
00:36:01,076 --> 00:36:02,511
That she must have yelled at him
and he would just go
711
00:36:02,535 --> 00:36:04,472
in the kitchen when he couldn't
get what he wanted
712
00:36:04,496 --> 00:36:06,863
when she was berating him
for whatever he wasn't
713
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,373
living
up to her standards.
714
00:36:09,542 --> 00:36:11,829
There's a lot one could say about
Hitchcock mothers.
715
00:36:21,012 --> 00:36:24,096
Are you quite sure she didn't
come down here to see you
716
00:36:24,265 --> 00:36:27,429
to capture the rich Alex
Sebastian for a husband?
717
00:36:27,435 --> 00:36:29,973
Now, get shaved before
your father gets home.
718
00:36:30,146 --> 00:36:32,854
You gentlemen aren't really trying
to kill my son, are you?
719
00:36:35,610 --> 00:36:38,569
When you talk about
what is sacred in America
720
00:36:38,571 --> 00:36:41,905
people talk about mom
and apple pie.
721
00:36:41,908 --> 00:36:44,742
Mom is good,
we love mom.
722
00:36:44,911 --> 00:36:48,404
We are mom. We are good.
723
00:36:48,415 --> 00:36:52,034
On the other hand, there's
something else going on
724
00:36:52,252 --> 00:36:55,962
in 1950's American
culture and society
725
00:36:55,964 --> 00:36:58,206
where mom
726
00:36:58,383 --> 00:37:02,548
is also suspect.
727
00:37:02,554 --> 00:37:05,342
There was a serious
social panic in America
728
00:37:05,515 --> 00:37:07,472
about
juvenile delinquency.
729
00:37:07,475 --> 00:37:10,309
One thing that this
social panic resulted in
730
00:37:10,478 --> 00:37:12,811
was this fear
that moms were going
731
00:37:12,981 --> 00:37:16,315
to shelter
and spoil children
732
00:37:16,484 --> 00:37:20,444
possibly America itself,
to death.
733
00:37:20,655 --> 00:37:22,487
All of the sitcoms
734
00:37:22,490 --> 00:37:24,277
"Father Knows Best"
735
00:37:24,284 --> 00:37:25,650
"Ozzie and Harriett"
736
00:37:25,827 --> 00:37:27,568
where mother
never did anything.
737
00:37:27,579 --> 00:37:30,196
All she did
was take care
738
00:37:30,206 --> 00:37:32,823
of the house
and the kids.
739
00:37:33,001 --> 00:37:35,288
Lunch is practically ready and
David has to get dressed.
740
00:37:35,462 --> 00:37:37,704
Get dressed?
You mean dressed up?
741
00:37:37,881 --> 00:37:39,817
Well, yes. You want to look nice
when Nancy gets here.
742
00:37:39,841 --> 00:37:42,800
The director who exposes
743
00:37:42,969 --> 00:37:46,883
the horror of the American
family in the '50s
744
00:37:47,056 --> 00:37:50,265
without making a horror
movie is Douglas Sirk.
745
00:37:50,435 --> 00:37:53,849
You see, Kay,
I love Ron.
746
00:37:53,855 --> 00:37:56,136
You love him so much
you're willing to ruin all our lives?
747
00:37:56,191 --> 00:37:57,932
You can't
really think that.
748
00:37:57,942 --> 00:38:00,229
What else can I think?
749
00:38:00,236 --> 00:38:04,230
In Sirk, it's the whole
construction of the family.
750
00:38:04,407 --> 00:38:07,616
It's not until "Psycho,"
though, where the mother
751
00:38:07,619 --> 00:38:09,702
is literally a monster
752
00:38:09,704 --> 00:38:11,696
when you see her
at the end.
753
00:38:11,706 --> 00:38:14,323
I think my mother
scared me
754
00:38:14,501 --> 00:38:16,242
when I was
three months old.
755
00:38:17,879 --> 00:38:20,087
You see,
she said, "Boo!"
756
00:38:20,089 --> 00:38:22,672
I don't know
how many times in "Psycho"
757
00:38:22,842 --> 00:38:25,676
do people
talk about mother.
758
00:38:25,845 --> 00:38:27,757
Oh, we can see
each other.
759
00:38:27,764 --> 00:38:29,630
We can even have dinner.
760
00:38:29,849 --> 00:38:31,636
But respectably.
761
00:38:31,810 --> 00:38:33,802
In my house, with my mother's
picture on the mantel
762
00:38:33,812 --> 00:38:36,805
and my sister helping me
broil a big steak for three.
763
00:38:38,316 --> 00:38:40,603
And after the steak,
do we send sister
764
00:38:40,610 --> 00:38:42,379
to the movies, turn mama's
picture to the wall?
765
00:38:42,403 --> 00:38:43,403
Sam!
766
00:38:43,571 --> 00:38:45,278
Patricia Hitchcock
767
00:38:45,281 --> 00:38:48,365
talks about, she
offers her a tranquilizer.
768
00:38:48,368 --> 00:38:49,700
Have you got
some aspirin?
769
00:38:49,869 --> 00:38:51,701
I've got something,
not aspirin.
770
00:38:51,871 --> 00:38:54,158
My mother's doctor gave them to me
the day of my wedding.
771
00:38:54,165 --> 00:38:57,078
Teddy was furious when he found out
I'd taken tranquilizers.
772
00:38:58,670 --> 00:39:00,536
A... any calls?
773
00:39:00,755 --> 00:39:04,248
Teddy called me. My mother called
to see if Teddy called.
774
00:39:04,425 --> 00:39:07,634
Even in that office,
the influence
775
00:39:07,637 --> 00:39:10,345
the negative influence
of mothers
776
00:39:10,348 --> 00:39:13,557
and here it's on women,
not on men.
777
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,519
So, the fact that
Norman Bates' mother
778
00:39:16,688 --> 00:39:19,522
we realize eventually
it's Norman Bates himself
779
00:39:19,691 --> 00:39:21,771
might have, on an unconscious
level, audiences saying
780
00:39:21,860 --> 00:39:24,728
"A-ha! I knew it!
781
00:39:24,737 --> 00:39:26,478
"Mom is gonna kill us!
782
00:39:26,489 --> 00:39:28,697
Mom is gonna be
the death of us all!"
783
00:39:47,677 --> 00:39:50,294
Okay, once more
onto the bridge.
784
00:39:51,681 --> 00:39:53,638
Back to the primal
moment.
785
00:39:56,060 --> 00:39:59,098
Marion is doing her
accounting here
786
00:39:59,272 --> 00:40:01,889
figuring out how much
she spent on the car.
787
00:40:03,318 --> 00:40:06,402
She's making
the decision to
788
00:40:06,613 --> 00:40:07,774
return the money.
789
00:40:07,947 --> 00:40:10,655
Nice little bit
of handy exposition.
790
00:40:10,867 --> 00:40:13,075
I always
write down my math.
791
00:40:13,286 --> 00:40:15,369
It's charming, you know.
792
00:40:15,371 --> 00:40:17,112
It's still an old movie,
let's face it.
793
00:40:19,792 --> 00:40:23,661
She throws the paper
in the toilet bowl
794
00:40:23,671 --> 00:40:25,663
and then, to cap it off,
she flushes it.
795
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,383
Right from the beginning
you know you're in new territory.
796
00:40:30,386 --> 00:40:33,675
In 1960, nobody had shown
a toilet before.
797
00:40:33,681 --> 00:40:36,094
The flushing toilet
is a clear indication that
798
00:40:36,100 --> 00:40:39,389
the scene to come is going
to break one or two taboos.
799
00:40:39,562 --> 00:40:42,805
Details are important, you know,
in the building of suspense.
800
00:40:42,982 --> 00:40:45,224
You know that those details are all
going to add up
801
00:40:45,401 --> 00:40:47,063
to something
much more monumental
802
00:40:47,070 --> 00:40:48,686
than the simplicity
of these shots.
803
00:40:50,156 --> 00:40:52,068
Hitchcock
was a Victorian.
804
00:40:52,075 --> 00:40:55,113
Victorians
thought that a bright
805
00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:58,203
white, tiled bathroom
was sanitary.
806
00:40:58,206 --> 00:41:00,914
That's the term
they used.
807
00:41:00,917 --> 00:41:05,207
His bathroom in his home
was bright, white tiles.
808
00:41:05,380 --> 00:41:09,465
He thought that invading the
sanctity of the bathroom
809
00:41:09,467 --> 00:41:12,881
was a cool and
subversive thing to do.
810
00:41:13,054 --> 00:41:17,389
He did it in his silent films,
he did it in "Spellbound."
811
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,389
But showing that brightness, it was
a way of saying
812
00:41:21,562 --> 00:41:24,851
look at how I'm defiling the sanctity
of the bathroom.
813
00:41:24,857 --> 00:41:26,723
And I'm doing it
almost bloodlessly.
814
00:41:26,901 --> 00:41:30,394
Coincidentally, this scene
was extremely influential
815
00:41:30,405 --> 00:41:32,897
on a scene in
"The Conversation"
816
00:41:33,074 --> 00:41:35,487
which I edited
back in 1973.
817
00:41:35,493 --> 00:41:37,359
A murder
has been committed
818
00:41:37,578 --> 00:41:40,286
and Gene Hackman
comes into
819
00:41:40,456 --> 00:41:42,243
the bathroom
of a hotel room
820
00:41:42,417 --> 00:41:44,625
but the room
is completely clean.
821
00:41:44,794 --> 00:41:47,502
And he pulls
the curtain apart
822
00:41:47,672 --> 00:41:49,914
just as in "Psycho"
the mother
823
00:41:50,091 --> 00:41:53,084
pulls the curtain apart
but it's empty.
824
00:41:53,261 --> 00:41:55,753
He goes to the drain of the tub
and runs his fingers
825
00:41:55,972 --> 00:41:58,760
around the drain to see
if there was any telltale
826
00:41:58,933 --> 00:42:02,051
signs of blood,
and there's nothing.
827
00:42:02,061 --> 00:42:05,554
He goes over to the toilet
to jiggle the handle
828
00:42:05,565 --> 00:42:08,228
and the toilet
suddenly backs up.
829
00:42:08,401 --> 00:42:11,394
So it's a kind
of i... inverse version
830
00:42:11,404 --> 00:42:13,862
of the "Psycho" scene.
831
00:42:13,865 --> 00:42:16,824
The toilet and the flushing
of the toilet
832
00:42:16,993 --> 00:42:20,532
the shower curtain, the drain, all
of these things were
833
00:42:20,705 --> 00:42:24,039
definitely imprinted
upon us by "Psycho."
834
00:42:24,250 --> 00:42:26,492
Now, one of
the most beautiful
835
00:42:26,502 --> 00:42:29,461
famous
leading ladies in 1960
836
00:42:29,464 --> 00:42:33,208
just stripped in front of us
and stepped into a shower.
837
00:42:33,426 --> 00:42:35,713
It's like, "Holy shit,
where are we going now?"
838
00:42:35,928 --> 00:42:38,261
Man, that must have been
crazy racy for 1960.
839
00:42:38,264 --> 00:42:39,675
I don't even understand.
840
00:42:39,682 --> 00:42:40,763
Hitchcock knew that
841
00:42:40,975 --> 00:42:42,637
American
men were curious
842
00:42:42,810 --> 00:42:44,551
about Janet Leigh.
843
00:42:44,729 --> 00:42:48,222
And so the idea
of having her in a shower
844
00:42:48,441 --> 00:42:52,606
in a stance that seems
very suggestive, was a huge deal.
845
00:42:52,779 --> 00:42:56,614
Seeing her full body
behind that curtain
846
00:42:56,783 --> 00:42:59,241
it's brilliant
because it's translucent.
847
00:42:59,410 --> 00:43:01,322
It's not transparent
848
00:43:01,496 --> 00:43:03,954
it's not opaque,
but it's translucent
849
00:43:04,123 --> 00:43:07,082
enough to see her
and titillate us
850
00:43:07,085 --> 00:43:10,578
but not enough to really
be graphic yet.
851
00:43:10,755 --> 00:43:12,997
Whole theory is that
you have to discover
852
00:43:13,007 --> 00:43:14,999
the sex in the woman
853
00:43:15,218 --> 00:43:16,218
and not have it..
854
00:43:18,638 --> 00:43:21,472
...stuck all over her
like labels, you know.
855
00:43:23,226 --> 00:43:25,013
And, uh, there's nothing
else to look for
856
00:43:25,228 --> 00:43:26,344
nothing to discover.
857
00:43:29,398 --> 00:43:31,685
Do we know anybody who
turns a shower on before it gets..
858
00:43:31,692 --> 00:43:33,354
Uh, I mean,
I don't act that way.
859
00:43:33,528 --> 00:43:37,693
I don't turn
a shower on... like that.
860
00:43:37,865 --> 00:43:41,279
I run it and then get in
when I know that it's safe.
861
00:43:41,285 --> 00:43:45,871
And look at that almost
sexual expression on her face.
862
00:43:46,082 --> 00:43:49,166
She's being rained upon,
and it's cleansing.
863
00:43:49,168 --> 00:43:53,082
It's warm and she's happy and she's
like, made up her mind.
864
00:43:53,256 --> 00:43:56,215
The natural sounds kind of put you
in the perspective of
865
00:43:56,217 --> 00:43:59,381
you know, we all become Janet Leigh,
but not as attractive.
866
00:43:59,554 --> 00:44:01,448
Through other movies
like "Rear Window" and "Birds"
867
00:44:01,472 --> 00:44:04,385
he knows when the lack of music can
be as effective as music.
868
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:25,987
I think there's almost
no moment
869
00:44:26,164 --> 00:44:29,748
when we see Marion
with a genuine smile.
870
00:44:29,917 --> 00:44:33,831
There's almost no moment where, where
she's allowed to feel
871
00:44:33,838 --> 00:44:36,501
good about
what her life is like.
872
00:44:36,674 --> 00:44:39,212
She's happy
for the first time.
873
00:44:39,427 --> 00:44:41,714
We're going into a scene
which on the one hand
874
00:44:41,888 --> 00:44:44,380
is, um, quite liberating
for the character
875
00:44:44,557 --> 00:44:46,514
but at the same time,
it's clearly really
876
00:44:46,684 --> 00:44:49,677
what we're watching
is the liberation of Hitchcock
877
00:44:49,854 --> 00:44:51,220
of his own
repressed desires
878
00:44:51,397 --> 00:44:53,684
finally being writ
large on screen.
879
00:44:53,858 --> 00:44:56,726
Hitchcock
viewed the world
880
00:44:56,736 --> 00:44:58,978
as a very imperfect
moral machine.
881
00:44:59,155 --> 00:45:02,990
And he always had this..
882
00:45:03,159 --> 00:45:06,243
...biblical, almost, sense of doom
and punishment.
883
00:45:06,412 --> 00:45:09,621
You know, that befalls
those that tangle
884
00:45:09,624 --> 00:45:12,287
with sin
in a casual way.
885
00:45:12,293 --> 00:45:14,626
Even his most
un-Hitchcockian movie
886
00:45:14,795 --> 00:45:16,627
which is
"Mr. and Mrs. Smith"
887
00:45:16,797 --> 00:45:20,666
which I love,
punishes banality.
888
00:45:20,676 --> 00:45:24,260
She makes a moral decision
to take back that money, and in
889
00:45:24,430 --> 00:45:27,423
you know, and suffer whatever
punishment will come her way.
890
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:29,887
I stepped into a private
trap back there
891
00:45:30,061 --> 00:45:34,055
and... I'd like to go back
and try to pull myself out of it..
892
00:45:36,776 --> 00:45:38,358
...before it's too late
for me, too.
893
00:45:38,361 --> 00:45:39,693
This is very important.
894
00:45:39,695 --> 00:45:41,778
Very important
narratively because
895
00:45:41,948 --> 00:45:45,066
it doesn't come, uh,
in the middle of a heist
896
00:45:45,076 --> 00:45:47,033
or in the middle
of the robbery
897
00:45:47,203 --> 00:45:50,742
or as she's escaping
with the money on the road.
898
00:45:50,915 --> 00:45:53,328
And it turns out, bang,
it doesn't make a damn
899
00:45:53,501 --> 00:45:56,460
bit of difference because the universe
doesn't give a shit.
900
00:45:56,462 --> 00:45:59,125
I think, uh, that is, um
901
00:45:59,298 --> 00:46:00,914
a true sign
of his Catholicism
902
00:46:01,133 --> 00:46:02,840
and... and his sense
of doom
903
00:46:03,010 --> 00:46:05,798
about a sin that
cannot be washed away
904
00:46:05,972 --> 00:46:07,634
literally, with water.
905
00:46:07,848 --> 00:46:09,760
You know,
it cannot be purged
906
00:46:09,934 --> 00:46:13,803
except by blood and violence and
paying the price.
907
00:46:13,813 --> 00:46:16,396
She's punished
for the worst crime
908
00:46:16,565 --> 00:46:20,605
which is sexually arousing
Norman Bates.
909
00:46:20,611 --> 00:46:22,603
You know, you get this
strain again and again.
910
00:46:22,822 --> 00:46:25,439
I mean, think of
"Strangers on a Train"
911
00:46:25,616 --> 00:46:28,984
where Robert Walker, you know,
strangles this poor girl.
912
00:46:28,995 --> 00:46:31,783
Again, what does
he strangle her for?
913
00:46:31,789 --> 00:46:33,325
Because
she's a loose woman
914
00:46:33,499 --> 00:46:36,412
who is in
Farley Granger's way..
915
00:46:36,585 --> 00:46:39,043
I... I mean, that's a
foreshadowing of "Psycho."
916
00:46:41,215 --> 00:46:43,172
That's her point of view
of the shower
917
00:46:43,342 --> 00:46:44,753
that puts us,
the audience
918
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,797
as if we're
in the shower with her.
919
00:46:47,013 --> 00:46:50,006
It makes us feel just
as vulnerable as she is.
920
00:46:50,182 --> 00:46:53,425
It's spraying at us and it's creating
a sonic curtain.
921
00:46:53,436 --> 00:46:56,429
She can't hear him
coming.
922
00:46:56,439 --> 00:46:59,102
Gee, I'm sorry I didn't hear you
in all this rain.
923
00:46:59,108 --> 00:47:03,443
And that's why that shot
is bad news.
924
00:47:03,612 --> 00:47:06,025
You know, the shots
change in their level of symmetry
925
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:07,560
during the course
of the sequence.
926
00:47:07,616 --> 00:47:09,699
That's order
at the beginning
927
00:47:09,702 --> 00:47:12,991
and then oddly, it'll be echoed
by the eye, and the drain
928
00:47:12,997 --> 00:47:15,455
and Norman Bates'
peephole through his office
929
00:47:15,624 --> 00:47:19,789
and those things start
to rhyme after awhile in a great way.
930
00:47:19,795 --> 00:47:21,502
How do you point
a camera at a shower head
931
00:47:21,505 --> 00:47:23,337
without the lens
getting sprayed?
932
00:47:23,341 --> 00:47:25,549
Move the camera
back enough
933
00:47:25,718 --> 00:47:28,301
plug some of the holes
so that the spray shoots outward.
934
00:47:28,471 --> 00:47:30,212
Very simple
and elegant solution.
935
00:47:32,058 --> 00:47:35,517
There's nothing unusual
about the pacing here.
936
00:47:35,686 --> 00:47:38,895
It's at a rather leisurely
four and a half seconds
937
00:47:39,065 --> 00:47:41,478
per cut on average.
938
00:47:41,484 --> 00:47:45,194
So it's the calm
before the storm, let's say.
939
00:47:45,404 --> 00:47:48,192
And now here's
what I would call a strange cut
940
00:47:48,366 --> 00:47:50,278
what I call
the wet hair cut
941
00:47:50,451 --> 00:47:53,239
which is her
washing herself
942
00:47:53,412 --> 00:47:54,948
with her head
tilted back
943
00:47:55,122 --> 00:47:56,954
and then
it suddenly cuts
944
00:47:56,957 --> 00:47:59,950
to the same
kind of an angle
945
00:48:00,127 --> 00:48:04,792
really a jump cut, except now
her hair is completely wet.
946
00:48:04,965 --> 00:48:08,629
This would give the lie
to somebody who said
947
00:48:08,636 --> 00:48:10,923
this scene
was shot exactly
948
00:48:11,097 --> 00:48:12,633
as the storyboards
were done
949
00:48:12,807 --> 00:48:15,470
because you never
would storyboard
950
00:48:15,643 --> 00:48:16,929
a moment like that.
951
00:48:17,103 --> 00:48:18,639
You think you're gonna
be watching her
952
00:48:18,854 --> 00:48:20,891
go through the whole
process in real time
953
00:48:20,898 --> 00:48:23,641
but that cut
jumps you ahead.
954
00:48:23,818 --> 00:48:28,279
It feels very bold
and confident.
955
00:48:28,447 --> 00:48:31,030
Now, we... we cut
to the showerhead
956
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:32,760
but it's a side angle
on the shower head
957
00:48:32,952 --> 00:48:36,616
not this sort of
subjective point of view.
958
00:48:36,789 --> 00:48:39,327
When we were looking
at her, she was facing left to right
959
00:48:39,500 --> 00:48:40,832
away from the shower.
960
00:48:42,294 --> 00:48:44,206
And when we
cut back to her
961
00:48:44,213 --> 00:48:47,206
we come around
to the other side of the stageline.
962
00:48:47,383 --> 00:48:50,296
What's behind her
now is the shower curtain
963
00:48:50,511 --> 00:48:51,592
not the wall.
964
00:48:53,055 --> 00:48:54,341
And now
there's another cut
965
00:48:54,348 --> 00:48:57,182
again it's a kind
of awkward jump cut.
966
00:48:57,351 --> 00:49:00,935
Objectively, there would be
no reason to do that.
967
00:49:00,938 --> 00:49:03,476
But it's unsettling
because
968
00:49:03,649 --> 00:49:08,314
there's a big empty
space, which is itself unsettling.
969
00:49:08,487 --> 00:49:11,821
What is going to fill
that empty space?
970
00:49:11,991 --> 00:49:15,325
The audience starts to look over
into that negative space
971
00:49:15,536 --> 00:49:18,370
and feeling like, "Why
am I looking over here?"
972
00:49:18,539 --> 00:49:21,202
The door opens,
you see the shadow
973
00:49:21,417 --> 00:49:22,828
and then Norman's
figure.
974
00:49:23,043 --> 00:49:24,875
And that's
the mounting terror
975
00:49:24,879 --> 00:49:25,619
where you say
to yourself
976
00:49:25,796 --> 00:49:27,287
"Oh, my God.
Oh, my God."
977
00:49:27,465 --> 00:49:32,051
And that is the difference
between suspense and surprise.
978
00:49:32,261 --> 00:49:36,050
The idea of menace
in a shadowy figure.
979
00:49:36,056 --> 00:49:38,719
I think that that's
Hitchcock's fear.
980
00:49:38,893 --> 00:49:41,055
Who is the menacing
figure
981
00:49:41,228 --> 00:49:44,346
in A... Alfred Hitchcock's
own life?
982
00:49:44,356 --> 00:49:48,020
By the time he gets to "Psycho,"
that person is unleashed.
983
00:49:50,029 --> 00:49:51,770
Here you see, uh,
Margo Epper
984
00:49:51,947 --> 00:49:54,940
the stunt woman,
coming toward.
985
00:49:54,950 --> 00:49:57,613
How do you not reveal
who that is?
986
00:49:57,786 --> 00:50:01,780
I've been taking the rap for that
sequence for 20 years now
987
00:50:01,957 --> 00:50:05,041
but that's not me
behind the curtain.
988
00:50:05,044 --> 00:50:08,583
I was in New York that day
rehearsing a Broadway show.
989
00:50:08,756 --> 00:50:10,088
Every time
they kept shooting it
990
00:50:10,257 --> 00:50:12,044
you kept seeing
the stunt woman's face.
991
00:50:12,218 --> 00:50:13,959
One of the makeup
men decided
992
00:50:13,969 --> 00:50:15,255
what if we blackened
her face?
993
00:50:15,429 --> 00:50:17,295
And so they... they tried
that a couple of times
994
00:50:17,306 --> 00:50:19,263
and they went darker
and darker and darker
995
00:50:19,266 --> 00:50:21,883
until they... they
achieved that effect.
996
00:50:22,061 --> 00:50:24,223
I talked with Janet Leigh
about what she thought
997
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:27,394
she saw coming at her,
and, and she clearly
998
00:50:27,399 --> 00:50:30,688
saw Norman
coming at her
999
00:50:30,861 --> 00:50:32,318
and that's what
she played.
1000
00:50:32,321 --> 00:50:34,404
So the reality
for her was
1001
00:50:34,573 --> 00:50:37,657
I'm going to die
this way by this person
1002
00:50:37,826 --> 00:50:39,112
who tried
to befriend me
1003
00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:41,202
and I tried
to be polite to.
1004
00:50:41,413 --> 00:50:42,620
You're very kind.
1005
00:50:44,583 --> 00:50:47,951
It's all for you.
I'm not hungry, go ahead.
1006
00:50:48,170 --> 00:50:50,662
It really does lend
an extra air of horror
1007
00:50:50,839 --> 00:50:53,547
and pathos
to that moment.
1008
00:50:53,717 --> 00:50:55,800
And that wallpaper
in the background
1009
00:50:55,970 --> 00:50:58,251
"The Shining," so many horror
movies try to have that like
1010
00:50:58,305 --> 00:51:01,048
perfect Hitchcock,
Bates Motel wallpaper.
1011
00:51:01,058 --> 00:51:03,391
This floral pattern
that juxtaposed with this
1012
00:51:03,394 --> 00:51:06,478
black silhouette of the knife
and the hair of mother
1013
00:51:06,647 --> 00:51:08,309
it's really,
really terrifying.
1014
00:51:08,315 --> 00:51:09,977
The shape always
kind of tortured me.
1015
00:51:10,150 --> 00:51:12,858
Almost like a weird
mushroom-shaped head.
1016
00:51:13,028 --> 00:51:14,985
I don't know, kind of lame
to me, for some reason.
1017
00:51:14,989 --> 00:51:19,108
I, I'd always wished that this shot
looked a little scarier.
1018
00:51:19,285 --> 00:51:23,370
When my grandfather first
saw the first rough cut of "Psycho"
1019
00:51:23,372 --> 00:51:24,452
um, he didn't
like it at all
1020
00:51:24,540 --> 00:51:26,100
He was just gonna
cut it down to an hour
1021
00:51:26,250 --> 00:51:28,367
and make it part
of the TV show.
1022
00:51:28,544 --> 00:51:30,877
Bernard Herrmann convinced
him to create the most like
1023
00:51:31,046 --> 00:51:34,790
famous scared chord music in... in
horror cinema history.
1024
00:51:34,967 --> 00:51:37,380
It's so engrained in pop
culture, to where..
1025
00:51:39,054 --> 00:51:40,511
It, it is,
it is transcendent.
1026
00:51:40,514 --> 00:51:43,006
My seven year old daughter
knows that
1027
00:51:43,225 --> 00:51:44,785
but she doesn't know
what it comes from.
1028
00:51:45,811 --> 00:51:47,289
But, you know,
she's made that joke.
1029
00:51:48,689 --> 00:51:50,225
Like, I don't know
where she got it.
1030
00:51:50,399 --> 00:51:52,127
- That's incredible.
- She has no idea it's from "Psycho."
1031
00:51:52,151 --> 00:51:55,019
It's evolutionary, like
we're just born knowing
1032
00:51:55,029 --> 00:51:58,147
the shower scene
from "Psycho."
1033
00:51:58,324 --> 00:52:00,190
I wanted a tattoo
1034
00:52:00,367 --> 00:52:02,905
and I thought,
it must be that one cue
1035
00:52:03,078 --> 00:52:04,694
by Bernard Herrmann
1036
00:52:04,705 --> 00:52:09,075
the most amazing cue ever made
in cinematic history.
1037
00:52:09,084 --> 00:52:12,122
It has so little
to do with harmony.
1038
00:52:12,129 --> 00:52:16,089
It is just
sheer terror.
1039
00:52:16,091 --> 00:52:18,959
The way that music was used in
movies to scare people really
1040
00:52:19,136 --> 00:52:20,752
changed after "Psycho."
1041
00:52:20,763 --> 00:52:22,755
If you wanna make
something scary
1042
00:52:22,765 --> 00:52:24,367
you put in those strings,
and you're like..
1043
00:52:25,434 --> 00:52:26,536
If you slow
it down you get..
1044
00:52:29,146 --> 00:52:32,059
What I really adore
about Herrmann is
1045
00:52:32,232 --> 00:52:36,317
the way that he realized
that in the limitation
1046
00:52:36,528 --> 00:52:38,690
there is actually
a much more
1047
00:52:38,864 --> 00:52:41,106
powerful statement
to be made.
1048
00:52:41,283 --> 00:52:43,445
He did "The Day
the Earth Stood Still"
1049
00:52:43,452 --> 00:52:46,911
and he wrote it for seven Theremins
and only copper horns.
1050
00:53:00,219 --> 00:53:02,211
Herrmann wrote,
"Living Doll"
1051
00:53:02,429 --> 00:53:03,949
which I think is one
of the best scores
1052
00:53:04,056 --> 00:53:06,139
that they had on
"Twilight Zone."
1053
00:53:06,141 --> 00:53:09,475
It's like
a bass clarinet
1054
00:53:09,478 --> 00:53:11,435
or it might have been
a contra bassoon
1055
00:53:11,647 --> 00:53:14,515
a glockenspiel
and a harp.
1056
00:53:14,525 --> 00:53:16,437
He was definitely
an experimenter.
1057
00:53:16,652 --> 00:53:19,144
He's the one who taught me
that you can kind of do
1058
00:53:19,154 --> 00:53:21,362
anything anywhere,
if it works.
1059
00:53:21,573 --> 00:53:23,940
What I think is also
absolutely genius about
1060
00:53:24,159 --> 00:53:27,778
the shower scene is that the way
Herrmann spotted it.
1061
00:53:27,788 --> 00:53:30,906
Uh, the spotting is deciding
when do you start a cue
1062
00:53:31,083 --> 00:53:32,995
when do you end a cue.
1063
00:53:33,001 --> 00:53:36,836
It starts with the... the
toilet flushing.
1064
00:53:36,839 --> 00:53:38,046
She steps
into the shower
1065
00:53:38,257 --> 00:53:40,965
there is no music
at all whatsoever.
1066
00:53:41,135 --> 00:53:43,593
This composer does not prepare us
for the onslaught
1067
00:53:43,762 --> 00:53:45,503
that is about
to happen.
1068
00:53:45,681 --> 00:53:47,263
When Janet Leigh
walks into the shower
1069
00:53:47,433 --> 00:53:50,141
and she pulls
the curtain closed
1070
00:53:50,310 --> 00:53:52,267
you can actually
hear the sound
1071
00:53:52,438 --> 00:53:54,304
of the rings on the bar
that and it goes
1072
00:53:55,607 --> 00:53:56,814
You see the villain
coming too
1073
00:53:56,984 --> 00:53:58,896
no music,
no music at all.
1074
00:53:59,111 --> 00:54:02,024
The curtain gets swept aside,
we get the first sting..
1075
00:54:05,701 --> 00:54:09,695
This is... this is the rush of
Janet Leigh's heartbeat.
1076
00:54:09,705 --> 00:54:12,948
From the moment that we,
as an audience, completely realize
1077
00:54:13,125 --> 00:54:16,835
"Okay, this girl is being
brutally butchered here"
1078
00:54:16,837 --> 00:54:19,545
and we see this,
and the music goes..
1079
00:54:25,304 --> 00:54:27,170
She falls to the floor
1080
00:54:27,347 --> 00:54:30,306
the heartbeat slows
because she's dying.
1081
00:54:30,476 --> 00:54:33,059
And then,
in her last gasp
1082
00:54:33,228 --> 00:54:36,221
that music
basically leaves her
1083
00:54:36,231 --> 00:54:38,769
and all we have is the sound
of the falling curtain
1084
00:54:38,942 --> 00:54:40,649
and her head
smacking to the ground.
1085
00:54:40,861 --> 00:54:43,103
How genius is that?
1086
00:54:43,322 --> 00:54:46,315
That's Herrmann.
That's not Hitch.
1087
00:54:46,325 --> 00:54:47,361
That's Bernie.
1088
00:54:47,367 --> 00:54:49,734
We used
the original score
1089
00:54:49,912 --> 00:54:51,403
um, Bernard Herrmann's
original score
1090
00:54:51,580 --> 00:54:53,071
for our temp music,
of course.
1091
00:54:53,248 --> 00:54:55,205
While we were editing the film
1092
00:54:55,209 --> 00:54:57,041
and then Danny came
and re-recorded it
1093
00:54:57,211 --> 00:54:59,669
and it was
so beautiful.
1094
00:54:59,838 --> 00:55:02,080
It's a perfect score.
1095
00:55:02,257 --> 00:55:04,089
When I was given the job,
I mean
1096
00:55:04,092 --> 00:55:06,926
it really was
a holy scripture for me.
1097
00:55:07,095 --> 00:55:11,055
There was one beat in a meeting with
some of the producers
1098
00:55:11,225 --> 00:55:14,389
of like, maybe because it's in color,
we should do it with
1099
00:55:14,394 --> 00:55:16,477
uh, brass and woodwinds
and percussion and do it
1100
00:55:16,688 --> 00:55:17,916
with a full orchestra,
I was like
1101
00:55:17,940 --> 00:55:19,852
"No, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no.
1102
00:55:20,067 --> 00:55:23,651
Please, please. I beg you.
Don't make me do that."
1103
00:55:23,654 --> 00:55:27,614
I had visions
of a very grumpy
1104
00:55:27,783 --> 00:55:28,944
Bernard Herrmann
1105
00:55:29,117 --> 00:55:31,359
his ghost coming into my
room and I'd wake up
1106
00:55:31,537 --> 00:55:32,994
in the middle of the night
and he'd be there going
1107
00:55:32,996 --> 00:55:34,828
"You little asshole,
what have you done?"
1108
00:55:36,959 --> 00:55:39,076
A knife is raised up
1109
00:55:39,086 --> 00:55:42,955
and now,
the murder scene begins
1110
00:55:42,965 --> 00:55:44,831
and the pace
of the cutting
1111
00:55:45,050 --> 00:55:46,916
it's going
to shrink dramatically.
1112
00:55:46,927 --> 00:55:49,465
And there it is,
beautiful
1113
00:55:49,638 --> 00:55:51,880
cathartic,
unbelievably savage..
1114
00:55:53,559 --> 00:55:57,678
...intimate and just
wrong on so many levels.
1115
00:55:57,688 --> 00:55:59,930
That... that looks awful.
That... that is..
1116
00:56:03,527 --> 00:56:07,191
Wow. Wow. Man, oh, man.
1117
00:56:07,364 --> 00:56:09,651
And he his way of reaching
out and grabbing you
1118
00:56:09,825 --> 00:56:12,158
by the throat
and saying, "Look! Look!
1119
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:13,696
You will look at this."
1120
00:56:13,871 --> 00:56:17,330
It was a perfect,
stainless steel trap.
1121
00:56:17,499 --> 00:56:21,539
You could not run away from it,
it was, uh, inflicting damage
1122
00:56:21,753 --> 00:56:23,745
but at the same time,
you knew
1123
00:56:23,922 --> 00:56:25,458
you were in
the hands of a master.
1124
00:56:25,632 --> 00:56:27,669
There was nothing
to do but submit.
1125
00:56:27,843 --> 00:56:31,007
The "Psycho" shower scene is
cut very much like a... an action scene.
1126
00:56:31,013 --> 00:56:32,379
George Tomasini
was a master.
1127
00:56:32,389 --> 00:56:34,130
What he did with
the shower scene changed
1128
00:56:34,141 --> 00:56:35,598
the language of cinema.
1129
00:56:35,767 --> 00:56:38,680
Uh, the editor suddenly became
a much more important
1130
00:56:38,687 --> 00:56:39,687
piece of the puzzle.
1131
00:56:39,855 --> 00:56:41,972
You had to think
about a cut
1132
00:56:41,982 --> 00:56:43,751
'cause a cut was gonna take you
four minutes to make
1133
00:56:43,775 --> 00:56:45,482
and splice
and check it.
1134
00:56:45,652 --> 00:56:48,986
And now, you can make
a cut every 12 seconds or something.
1135
00:56:49,156 --> 00:56:52,024
The planning, the consideration,
the thinking that went
1136
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:55,318
into designing some of these films
is astonishing.
1137
00:56:55,495 --> 00:56:59,364
Motion pictures were 14 years old before
somebody got the idea
1138
00:56:59,374 --> 00:57:01,457
that you could
make a cut.
1139
00:57:01,627 --> 00:57:03,209
Because it's violent
what's happening
1140
00:57:03,378 --> 00:57:06,667
you're looking at
an image, a visual field
1141
00:57:06,882 --> 00:57:10,091
that is very detailed
and full of motion
1142
00:57:10,260 --> 00:57:12,172
and then, instantly
1143
00:57:12,346 --> 00:57:14,679
it is removed and replaced
with another image.
1144
00:57:14,681 --> 00:57:17,515
In a sense, the audience
should kind of
1145
00:57:17,726 --> 00:57:19,888
crash through the windshield
of this experience.
1146
00:57:20,062 --> 00:57:22,429
Hitchcock and Tomasini
knew exactly
1147
00:57:22,439 --> 00:57:23,680
where the audience
was looking.
1148
00:57:23,857 --> 00:57:27,191
They ended up working
the disorientation
1149
00:57:27,361 --> 00:57:31,480
drawing you into Marion's sense
of confusion and terror.
1150
00:57:31,490 --> 00:57:34,278
Every single cut that
Tomasini does is you..
1151
00:57:34,451 --> 00:57:36,512
By the time you've caught up
to what you're looking at
1152
00:57:36,536 --> 00:57:39,700
in the new shot, he's already
cut to another shot.
1153
00:57:39,873 --> 00:57:42,661
It's a kaleidoscope
of these images crashing
1154
00:57:42,834 --> 00:57:47,044
into your cranium, but it's very planned,
and it feels that way.
1155
00:57:47,047 --> 00:57:49,630
It's order and chaos come
crashing up against each other.
1156
00:57:49,633 --> 00:57:53,252
- It's a magic act. Truly.
- Yeah.
1157
00:57:53,428 --> 00:57:55,545
'Cause people walked out
of the cinema feeling
1158
00:57:55,722 --> 00:57:58,760
like they had seen, like shocked,
you know, beyond belief
1159
00:57:58,934 --> 00:58:02,098
'cause there was nothing like that
in cinema prior to that.
1160
00:58:02,104 --> 00:58:03,824
And yet they hadn't
actually seen the things
1161
00:58:03,981 --> 00:58:06,268
that they thought they saw. That's
an incredible thing.
1162
00:58:11,071 --> 00:58:14,781
The use of the sound
effects, um, that... are
1163
00:58:14,783 --> 00:58:16,615
I think, I think
a huge contributor
1164
00:58:16,785 --> 00:58:18,321
to the violence
of the scene.
1165
00:58:18,537 --> 00:58:20,494
The stabbing sounds
in particular.
1166
00:58:20,664 --> 00:58:24,829
How do you come up
with the sound of
1167
00:58:24,835 --> 00:58:27,543
what happens when a butcher
knife strikes flesh?
1168
00:58:27,546 --> 00:58:30,459
The soundman
came up with the idea of
1169
00:58:30,465 --> 00:58:33,253
what about a knife
stabbing melons?
1170
00:58:38,306 --> 00:58:41,140
So, knowing Hitchcock,
you would have to bring
1171
00:58:41,309 --> 00:58:45,474
lots of melons and arrange
them on a big table.
1172
00:58:45,647 --> 00:58:48,230
There'd be Crenshaw
melons, and you know
1173
00:58:48,233 --> 00:58:49,644
any kind of melon
that you can imagine
1174
00:58:49,651 --> 00:58:50,892
of very,
very different sizes.
1175
00:58:50,902 --> 00:58:52,438
So, I think
they had about
1176
00:58:52,612 --> 00:58:55,025
two dozen
and some backups.
1177
00:58:57,743 --> 00:58:59,780
So, there's
the prop man
1178
00:58:59,786 --> 00:59:02,369
stabbing melon,
melon, melon, melon.
1179
00:59:02,539 --> 00:59:04,531
Next melon,
melon, melon.
1180
00:59:04,541 --> 00:59:06,578
And so by the end of it
Hitchcock knew the one
1181
00:59:06,752 --> 00:59:08,334
that sounded most
like, sinew and
1182
00:59:08,503 --> 00:59:10,836
sounded the way he
thought it should sound.
1183
00:59:11,006 --> 00:59:13,464
So, when they were
through demonstrating
1184
00:59:13,675 --> 00:59:15,132
all of these
different melons
1185
00:59:15,343 --> 00:59:16,584
all he said was..
1186
00:59:18,722 --> 00:59:20,463
"...Casaba."
1187
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:21,784
That's all they
needed to know.
1188
00:59:38,617 --> 00:59:42,736
I think the whole key to the sound
of the Casaba melon
1189
00:59:42,913 --> 00:59:45,075
is that the inner gooey
part is very small
1190
00:59:45,290 --> 00:59:47,498
and there's a very
thick layer of fruit
1191
00:59:47,667 --> 00:59:49,203
that you have
to stab through.
1192
00:59:49,377 --> 00:59:50,584
- It's very dense.
- Dense?
1193
00:59:50,754 --> 00:59:53,087
Not hollow, like a lot
of the other melons
1194
00:59:53,090 --> 00:59:54,547
sounded a
little bit hollow.
1195
00:59:54,549 --> 00:59:56,541
And I'm sure,
with his eyes closed
1196
00:59:56,551 --> 00:59:58,508
Hitchcock was probably
hearing that.
1197
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:02,259
To my ear, the Casaba
melon sounds more like dry
1198
01:00:02,432 --> 01:00:05,971
bony stabbing, as opposed
to wet, gooey stabbing.
1199
01:00:06,144 --> 01:00:07,430
The starchiness
and the thickness
1200
01:00:07,604 --> 01:00:09,641
probably gives you,
more of that viscera
1201
01:00:09,815 --> 01:00:10,976
the crunchiness
or the...
1202
01:00:10,982 --> 01:00:13,224
- Viscera.
- Viscera.
1203
01:00:13,401 --> 01:00:16,565
Hitchcock also had them
bring a sirloin
1204
01:00:16,571 --> 01:00:20,906
a really big
thing of sirloin.
1205
01:00:21,076 --> 01:00:23,489
I don't eat meat,
and so I'm nearly nauseous
1206
01:00:23,703 --> 01:00:25,945
telling you this but,
uh, in any case
1207
01:00:26,164 --> 01:00:27,951
Hitchcock thought that would be
a really great idea.
1208
01:00:27,958 --> 01:00:30,666
And they did,
in fact, stab
1209
01:00:30,836 --> 01:00:33,874
a big, big,
big slab of steak.
1210
01:00:34,047 --> 01:00:36,960
And so that sound
is interspersed with melon.
1211
01:00:46,893 --> 01:00:48,259
And the soundman
took it home and had it
1212
01:00:48,270 --> 01:00:49,886
for dinner that night.
1213
01:00:50,063 --> 01:00:52,305
The stabbing sound
in "Psycho"
1214
01:00:52,482 --> 01:00:54,690
is not a Hollywood
sound effect
1215
01:00:54,693 --> 01:00:56,730
it is a natural
sound effect
1216
01:00:56,903 --> 01:00:58,895
which makes it
all the more horrible.
1217
01:00:59,072 --> 01:01:00,938
You could take the
combination of like, an arrow
1218
01:01:00,949 --> 01:01:03,657
a literal arrow
or an axe hitting
1219
01:01:03,827 --> 01:01:07,241
and you add to that a pipe
in the mud kind of gush
1220
01:01:07,247 --> 01:01:10,160
and you add to that some
sort of like, uh, like a leather rip
1221
01:01:10,375 --> 01:01:12,742
and you could make
the sound design stab
1222
01:01:12,919 --> 01:01:14,376
that would
feel horrible.
1223
01:01:15,839 --> 01:01:17,205
Marion turns.
1224
01:01:18,341 --> 01:01:19,047
We have three close-ups
1225
01:01:19,217 --> 01:01:20,879
getting
increasingly tighter
1226
01:01:21,052 --> 01:01:23,339
to the point that now
we're looking at nothing
1227
01:01:23,513 --> 01:01:24,879
but her open mouth.
1228
01:01:24,890 --> 01:01:26,722
The three quick cuts
which makes me
1229
01:01:26,892 --> 01:01:28,758
happy to be an editor.
1230
01:01:28,935 --> 01:01:32,053
I've seen some of Saul Bass'
boards and you'll see
1231
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:33,971
cut one and cut three
1232
01:01:33,982 --> 01:01:35,974
but the idea of drawing
the three together
1233
01:01:36,151 --> 01:01:38,017
really feels like something
that's, uh... uh,
1234
01:01:38,028 --> 01:01:39,644
kind of a joyful
discovery
1235
01:01:39,821 --> 01:01:42,313
in feeling your way through things
in the cutting room.
1236
01:01:42,490 --> 01:01:44,652
Hitchcock does the thing here that
he does in "The Birds" too
1237
01:01:44,659 --> 01:01:46,616
to show something
that's shocking.
1238
01:01:47,537 --> 01:01:49,620
An on-axis cut
1239
01:01:49,789 --> 01:01:52,281
boom, boom, boom.
1240
01:01:52,292 --> 01:01:53,954
It's a psychological
cut.
1241
01:01:54,127 --> 01:01:55,709
People always think
it's s... something that Hitchcock
1242
01:01:55,712 --> 01:01:58,796
came up with, but I actually
always traced it back
1243
01:01:58,965 --> 01:02:00,957
to the
original "Frankenstein"
1244
01:02:01,134 --> 01:02:04,047
directed by
James Whale in 1931.
1245
01:02:04,221 --> 01:02:05,962
In a way it was
the same effect because
1246
01:02:06,139 --> 01:02:07,859
they were showing you
something so grotesque
1247
01:02:08,016 --> 01:02:09,452
something that you had
never seen before.
1248
01:02:09,476 --> 01:02:13,641
People wanted to go to the movie
just to see how shocking it was.
1249
01:02:13,855 --> 01:02:16,375
There's something called an American
cut when you're editing, which is
1250
01:02:16,399 --> 01:02:19,688
just like jump cutting into a close-up
from a wide shot.
1251
01:02:19,861 --> 01:02:21,297
And I know whenever I do it in a movie
when I'm working with
1252
01:02:21,321 --> 01:02:23,028
Sam Raimi, he's
always like, tortured.
1253
01:02:23,031 --> 01:02:24,634
He's like, "Why do you
do those stupid cuts?"
1254
01:02:24,658 --> 01:02:26,510
And I always go, "It's, uh, it's
an American cut."
1255
01:02:26,534 --> 01:02:29,402
And he always says, "That's more like
a C... Canadian cut."
1256
01:02:29,621 --> 01:02:31,738
There's something really
visceral about cutting
1257
01:02:31,748 --> 01:02:35,037
from a wide shot
jumping into a, a close-up.
1258
01:02:35,043 --> 01:02:38,036
Now we have
a lower angle
1259
01:02:38,046 --> 01:02:39,912
that is not
a subjective angle
1260
01:02:39,923 --> 01:02:42,461
this is not
what Marion sees
1261
01:02:42,634 --> 01:02:45,798
but it's maximized
for threat.
1262
01:02:45,971 --> 01:02:48,463
There's a lot of defensive shots
that make it look like
1263
01:02:48,473 --> 01:02:50,009
she's trying
to fight him off
1264
01:02:50,016 --> 01:02:51,496
that makes you feel
that you're there.
1265
01:02:52,852 --> 01:02:54,309
We've jumped
the stage line here
1266
01:02:54,479 --> 01:02:57,347
which is another
disorienting thing.
1267
01:02:57,524 --> 01:03:00,892
In violence, and in love,
interestingly
1268
01:03:01,069 --> 01:03:04,187
it's actually good
to cross the stageline
1269
01:03:04,364 --> 01:03:07,857
because it gives you that
subjective sense of a kind of
1270
01:03:07,867 --> 01:03:09,608
d... dizzy delirium.
1271
01:03:11,746 --> 01:03:14,238
You see Norman's hand
with the knife come laterally
1272
01:03:14,416 --> 01:03:16,658
across and
break the lines.
1273
01:03:16,668 --> 01:03:20,161
It's so great because
it's violating the purity.
1274
01:03:20,338 --> 01:03:22,375
The water is going
in the opposite direction
1275
01:03:22,549 --> 01:03:25,041
of the knife, so there's
all these great angles
1276
01:03:25,051 --> 01:03:27,589
that are again, like, German
expressionist cinema
1277
01:03:27,762 --> 01:03:29,424
that Hitchcock
had been exposed to
1278
01:03:29,597 --> 01:03:33,181
in the early '20's when he first
started his career.
1279
01:03:33,351 --> 01:03:35,751
This overhead shot, it's like the
whole shot is out of focus.
1280
01:03:35,854 --> 01:03:37,595
And, you know,
they used it anyway.
1281
01:03:37,772 --> 01:03:40,731
I can imagine sitting in with
studio executives now
1282
01:03:40,900 --> 01:03:42,712
and them saying, "Oh, you know,
you've got this one shot
1283
01:03:42,736 --> 01:03:44,255
"that's so out of focus,
we really didn't need to take
1284
01:03:44,279 --> 01:03:45,565
that shot out
of the edit."
1285
01:03:45,739 --> 01:03:47,008
But thank goodness
they left it in
1286
01:03:47,032 --> 01:03:48,694
because it's such
a great shot.
1287
01:03:48,908 --> 01:03:52,072
The knife is already
through the frame
1288
01:03:52,245 --> 01:03:55,204
before we, the audience,
are really able to lock onto
1289
01:03:55,206 --> 01:03:56,788
what we're looking at.
1290
01:03:56,958 --> 01:03:58,540
Our face
gravitates to Marion
1291
01:03:58,710 --> 01:04:01,748
and then to the negative
space to see where did the knife go?
1292
01:04:01,755 --> 01:04:04,589
They force the audience
to fill in the blank.
1293
01:04:04,799 --> 01:04:08,292
Her right to left
movement carries us
1294
01:04:08,303 --> 01:04:10,260
right to the cut and
right where her face is
1295
01:04:10,430 --> 01:04:11,841
there's the knife.
1296
01:04:11,848 --> 01:04:13,714
That knife never makes
connection with her
1297
01:04:13,933 --> 01:04:16,175
but in my mind
I see him stabbing her.
1298
01:04:16,394 --> 01:04:17,851
It's crazy.
1299
01:04:17,854 --> 01:04:20,892
Hitchcock is going
in 360 degrees.
1300
01:04:21,066 --> 01:04:23,228
All of these things that
you're not supposed to do
1301
01:04:23,234 --> 01:04:25,772
in narrative storytelling,
he's doing to give you
1302
01:04:25,945 --> 01:04:27,686
this feeling of
complete disorientation.
1303
01:04:29,783 --> 01:04:31,820
Every time we cut back
to Norman's form
1304
01:04:31,993 --> 01:04:34,076
we're grounded again.
1305
01:04:34,245 --> 01:04:36,487
Back to Norman, but now
we're slightly tighter.
1306
01:04:36,498 --> 01:04:38,160
Cut to Marion,
we are tighter.
1307
01:04:38,333 --> 01:04:40,120
Norman, tighter.
1308
01:04:40,293 --> 01:04:43,627
And then, in the intersecting
water over and over again
1309
01:04:43,797 --> 01:04:46,505
to the shot,
the one shot
1310
01:04:46,508 --> 01:04:48,374
that convinces me as
a viewer
1311
01:04:48,385 --> 01:04:51,799
that Marion
has been stabbed.
1312
01:04:51,805 --> 01:04:53,637
The knife never connects
with the skin
1313
01:04:53,807 --> 01:04:55,890
but what about
this shot here?
1314
01:04:56,059 --> 01:04:58,893
I'm telling you, folks,
that is penetration.
1315
01:04:59,062 --> 01:05:01,850
Hitchcock got away with,
uh, showing
1316
01:05:02,023 --> 01:05:04,891
my belly button on film.
1317
01:05:05,068 --> 01:05:08,436
All the beach towel movies, you know,
with Annette Funicello
1318
01:05:08,446 --> 01:05:10,246
they had bikinis, but they
had to have them up
1319
01:05:10,407 --> 01:05:11,943
over their belly button.
1320
01:05:12,117 --> 01:05:15,155
He explained to me
that he, he says
1321
01:05:15,328 --> 01:05:17,536
"Paramount Special Effects
Department made
1322
01:05:17,705 --> 01:05:20,413
"for me a torso
of rubber.
1323
01:05:20,417 --> 01:05:22,534
"You plunge the knife in,
blood would spurt out.
1324
01:05:22,544 --> 01:05:23,910
"Oh, it was wonderful.
1325
01:05:24,087 --> 01:05:26,044
I didn't use it at all."
1326
01:05:26,214 --> 01:05:27,955
"You didn't use it at all?"
"No, no, no.
1327
01:05:27,966 --> 01:05:31,130
The knife never
touches the body."
1328
01:05:31,302 --> 01:05:33,715
Goes back to Eisenstein
and the whole idea
1329
01:05:33,888 --> 01:05:35,845
of editing,
uh, cutting.
1330
01:05:35,849 --> 01:05:37,841
Montage.
1331
01:05:38,017 --> 01:05:39,697
He didn't want a
plastic knife or anything.
1332
01:05:39,853 --> 01:05:41,685
He use the knife.
1333
01:05:41,688 --> 01:05:45,022
He had marks on there like
blood, and he pressed it
1334
01:05:45,024 --> 01:05:48,233
against my stomach
and then pulled it out.
1335
01:05:49,863 --> 01:05:52,571
And then, in the film
they reversed it
1336
01:05:52,574 --> 01:05:53,735
showing it going in.
1337
01:05:56,244 --> 01:05:58,702
Hitchcock, I think,
it's safe to say
1338
01:05:58,705 --> 01:06:01,368
spent an entire career
thumbing his nose at the censors.
1339
01:06:04,252 --> 01:06:07,620
The last shot of "North by
Northwest" is a, is a train
1340
01:06:07,630 --> 01:06:12,625
entering a tunnel, like a very
unsubtle sexual metaphor
1341
01:06:12,635 --> 01:06:14,877
and then we pick that up with
a post coitus in "Psycho."
1342
01:06:15,054 --> 01:06:17,637
Wow. That's interesting.
1343
01:06:21,561 --> 01:06:23,803
You know, the Production
Code Administration
1344
01:06:24,022 --> 01:06:27,231
still mattered
at that time.
1345
01:06:27,442 --> 01:06:30,901
And then in trying to get
the movie approved
1346
01:06:30,904 --> 01:06:33,567
by the Legion
of Decency.
1347
01:06:33,573 --> 01:06:36,361
If either one of those
had been a problem
1348
01:06:36,576 --> 01:06:39,740
as far as the production and
distribution of "Psycho"
1349
01:06:39,954 --> 01:06:42,742
it would not have been
the phenomenon that it was.
1350
01:06:42,916 --> 01:06:45,329
There was a little
negotiation going on.
1351
01:06:45,335 --> 01:06:47,668
He said, "I'll reshoot
the beginning.
1352
01:06:47,670 --> 01:06:50,037
You... you can come
and watch me shoot it."
1353
01:06:50,215 --> 01:06:51,251
They never showed up.
1354
01:06:51,424 --> 01:06:55,293
All he did was
tell the whole crew
1355
01:06:55,303 --> 01:06:56,919
we're gonna just
send the scene back.
1356
01:06:57,096 --> 01:07:00,555
We're not gonna cut
one frame from it, and he didn't.
1357
01:07:00,725 --> 01:07:03,092
He just kept basically
telling them, you're prudes
1358
01:07:03,269 --> 01:07:05,761
and you're actually
horn dog prudes
1359
01:07:05,939 --> 01:07:09,057
because you're seeing
something that isn't there.
1360
01:07:09,234 --> 01:07:11,271
So everything stayed
in the way he wanted it.
1361
01:07:11,277 --> 01:07:13,439
He got away with it.
1362
01:07:13,613 --> 01:07:15,525
You contrast Hitchcock
1363
01:07:15,740 --> 01:07:18,448
making a disturbing,
shocking movie
1364
01:07:18,451 --> 01:07:20,534
that revolves
around sex and violence.
1365
01:07:20,745 --> 01:07:23,328
and a deeply
disturbed protagonist
1366
01:07:23,498 --> 01:07:25,911
with a movie that came out
the very same year
1367
01:07:25,917 --> 01:07:29,661
within a few months of it,
like Michael Powell's "Peeping Tom."
1368
01:07:29,837 --> 01:07:33,126
That movie, a lot of people see
as having ruined
1369
01:07:33,299 --> 01:07:35,632
Michael Powell's
career.
1370
01:07:35,802 --> 01:07:38,122
You know, Val Lewton, who these
guys know I'm obsessed with
1371
01:07:38,179 --> 01:07:42,719
but you know, he was the master of,
you saw nothing, ever.
1372
01:07:42,725 --> 01:07:44,762
There's no cat
in "Cat People."
1373
01:07:44,936 --> 01:07:46,393
Right. Right, right,
1374
01:07:46,604 --> 01:07:47,970
There's no cat people
in "Cat People."
1375
01:07:47,981 --> 01:07:49,142
There's shadows.
1376
01:07:49,315 --> 01:07:50,431
There's some shadows.
1377
01:07:50,608 --> 01:07:52,270
Every one
of his films was
1378
01:07:52,277 --> 01:07:55,645
the title promised something that
you never actually saw.
1379
01:07:55,655 --> 01:07:57,988
You never, there's no leopard man
in "Leopard Man."
1380
01:07:58,157 --> 01:08:02,026
And the most chilling murder in all
of Val Lewton's canon
1381
01:08:02,036 --> 01:08:05,074
takes place on the other
side of a closed door
1382
01:08:05,081 --> 01:08:06,321
from the perspective
of a mother
1383
01:08:06,374 --> 01:08:08,741
who is hearing her
daughter get slaughtered.
1384
01:08:08,918 --> 01:08:12,082
And you just see the blood
seep in under the crack in the door.
1385
01:08:12,088 --> 01:08:15,001
You n... you never
see it, you never see it at all.
1386
01:08:15,174 --> 01:08:18,292
And that seems to me
like the roots of the shower scene.
1387
01:08:18,469 --> 01:08:20,802
- Totally.
- I would like to throw one in there.
1388
01:08:20,972 --> 01:08:22,338
Uh, like,
one film into the mix
1389
01:08:22,557 --> 01:08:25,721
which has one particular
mind-blowing scene
1390
01:08:25,727 --> 01:08:28,686
which I would call horror,
and that's "Irreversible."
1391
01:08:28,855 --> 01:08:29,855
Yeah!
1392
01:08:30,023 --> 01:08:31,417
And here's the thing
about that rape scene.
1393
01:08:31,441 --> 01:08:33,979
It's like, it's, i... it, what
is it like, 15 minutes long?
1394
01:08:33,985 --> 01:08:37,524
It's something, and they don't
really show anything.
1395
01:08:37,697 --> 01:08:39,438
There's no nudity,
there's no nothing.
1396
01:08:39,449 --> 01:08:42,408
It's just one shot
that lingers.
1397
01:08:46,289 --> 01:08:47,530
The rape scene
in "Irreversible"
1398
01:08:47,707 --> 01:08:48,934
and the shower scene
in "Psycho"
1399
01:08:48,958 --> 01:08:50,995
are exact inverses.
1400
01:08:51,169 --> 01:08:54,378
The shower scene
is incredibly close..
1401
01:08:54,380 --> 01:08:56,588
...and frenetic.
1402
01:08:56,591 --> 01:08:58,423
And the rape scene
in "Irreversible"
1403
01:08:58,426 --> 01:09:00,167
is incredibly distant
and still.
1404
01:09:02,180 --> 01:09:04,843
The shots of the mother
are out of focus
1405
01:09:05,058 --> 01:09:07,721
the focus is on the water,
not the mother.
1406
01:09:07,894 --> 01:09:11,137
You could argue that this is
Marion's subjective
1407
01:09:11,314 --> 01:09:14,352
point of view that she
doesn't see who it is clearly
1408
01:09:14,525 --> 01:09:17,233
because
she's so confused.
1409
01:09:17,403 --> 01:09:19,816
Very quick cutting here,
on the average
1410
01:09:20,031 --> 01:09:24,696
one shot every three-quarters of a
second, 18 frames.
1411
01:09:25,870 --> 01:09:28,829
And the audience in 1960
would be having
1412
01:09:28,998 --> 01:09:31,206
um, they would be
seeing something
1413
01:09:31,376 --> 01:09:33,413
in a way that they were
not used to seeing it.
1414
01:09:35,463 --> 01:09:37,045
I was always surprised
that they got away with this.
1415
01:09:37,048 --> 01:09:38,789
Just the amount of like,
naked breast
1416
01:09:38,966 --> 01:09:40,298
that they were
able to show.
1417
01:09:40,301 --> 01:09:43,794
It had to be done
impressionistically.
1418
01:09:43,805 --> 01:09:47,139
So it was done with
little pieces of film.
1419
01:09:47,141 --> 01:09:49,349
The head,
the feet, the hand.
1420
01:09:50,895 --> 01:09:53,228
Parts of the torso.
1421
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:55,931
The shot of her feet
is the very first cut of blood
1422
01:09:56,109 --> 01:09:58,271
that we've had
in this entire piece.
1423
01:09:58,486 --> 01:10:02,526
The blood starts to spatter
into the water rather than flow.
1424
01:10:02,699 --> 01:10:05,908
You know, you see
spots hitting like a dark rain
1425
01:10:06,077 --> 01:10:09,411
and then it just is absorbed
by the water and it spreads out
1426
01:10:09,580 --> 01:10:12,789
in a very kind of haunting,
haunting way.
1427
01:10:12,959 --> 01:10:14,700
My mom loves
to tell me that
1428
01:10:14,877 --> 01:10:17,119
"Oh, you know that,
uh, the blood going down the drain
1429
01:10:17,338 --> 01:10:19,441
in "Psycho" is chocolate syrup, right?
- Chocolate syrup. Yeah.
1430
01:10:19,465 --> 01:10:21,252
So, is anyone in this
room going to tell us
1431
01:10:21,426 --> 01:10:23,292
that that's not
actually chocolate syrup?
1432
01:10:23,302 --> 01:10:25,715
They had a can
of Hershey's syrup
1433
01:10:25,930 --> 01:10:27,421
which was watered down
1434
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:29,302
and that's what
they used for blood.
1435
01:10:29,475 --> 01:10:32,309
But they had to dribble it
around me and on me.
1436
01:10:32,478 --> 01:10:35,266
I deliberately made the
film in black and white
1437
01:10:35,273 --> 01:10:39,187
because I knew that
if it has been in color
1438
01:10:39,193 --> 01:10:41,901
uh, the draining away of blood
would have been too repulsive.
1439
01:10:45,700 --> 01:10:47,111
The knife comes through
1440
01:10:47,118 --> 01:10:49,485
and even though it's just
swinging through frame
1441
01:10:49,662 --> 01:10:51,824
my brain is telling me
she's just gotten stabbed
1442
01:10:51,998 --> 01:10:53,705
squarely in the back.
1443
01:10:53,708 --> 01:10:57,201
And then,
to the sneaky cut
1444
01:10:57,211 --> 01:11:00,795
that Tomasini
has put into the film.
1445
01:11:00,965 --> 01:11:03,332
Starting here with her hand out
of focus at the front
1446
01:11:03,342 --> 01:11:05,379
it's going
towards the wall.
1447
01:11:05,386 --> 01:11:07,048
Your eyes
are super confused here
1448
01:11:07,054 --> 01:11:09,046
because you're looking
at a negative space
1449
01:11:09,223 --> 01:11:11,260
a... and just
the wall tile.
1450
01:11:11,267 --> 01:11:14,260
Her hand starts
to come in and instantly
1451
01:11:14,437 --> 01:11:16,224
there's a jump cut.
1452
01:11:16,397 --> 01:11:18,935
If you watch
that at full speed
1453
01:11:18,941 --> 01:11:21,183
itjust looks
like, bam.
1454
01:11:21,194 --> 01:11:25,404
It ends up making it feel like she's
slamming against the wall.
1455
01:11:25,406 --> 01:11:27,272
His exit
is also tremendous
1456
01:11:27,283 --> 01:11:30,117
that quick move,
without looking back.
1457
01:11:30,286 --> 01:11:32,824
He doesn't even stand there to
make sure she's dead. He leaves.
1458
01:11:32,830 --> 01:11:36,494
It's almost like a time cut, where he's
already out the door.
1459
01:11:36,667 --> 01:11:39,125
And I think part of it is, they were
really trying to hide
1460
01:11:39,337 --> 01:11:40,703
you know, who it was.
1461
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:42,291
And they were tired
of showing that lame shot
1462
01:11:42,298 --> 01:11:43,834
where his head looked
like a mushroom.
1463
01:11:43,841 --> 01:11:46,379
The shot of the hand,
it looks like a starfish
1464
01:11:46,385 --> 01:11:47,967
against the wall.
1465
01:11:47,970 --> 01:11:50,804
It's just a hand, the least important
part of her body
1466
01:11:51,015 --> 01:11:53,052
right now after she's been
hacked to death.
1467
01:11:53,059 --> 01:11:57,554
And you see the life ebbing
out of her body through her hand.
1468
01:11:57,730 --> 01:12:00,313
So, the scene becomes
all about her hands, if you watch it.
1469
01:12:00,483 --> 01:12:02,941
Hand. And then, hand.
1470
01:12:02,944 --> 01:12:06,437
And you watch it go.
1471
01:12:06,614 --> 01:12:08,981
Trying to grab onto something.
Hand going down the wall.
1472
01:12:08,991 --> 01:12:10,857
She turns around,
where's her hand?
1473
01:12:11,035 --> 01:12:12,947
You know, that's kind of the,
that's the big question.
1474
01:12:12,954 --> 01:12:14,848
And if you actually watch
the opening scene of "Jurassic Park"
1475
01:12:14,872 --> 01:12:16,329
it's the same thing,
it's, you know
1476
01:12:16,332 --> 01:12:17,652
it doesn't matter
that... that guy
1477
01:12:17,792 --> 01:12:19,112
that got eaten
by the velociraptor
1478
01:12:19,210 --> 01:12:20,621
you barely
see his face.
1479
01:12:20,628 --> 01:12:23,371
But what's important,
and you watch is
1480
01:12:23,548 --> 01:12:25,039
he's grabbing
onto his hand.
1481
01:12:25,258 --> 01:12:26,715
Hand reaches out.
1482
01:12:26,884 --> 01:12:28,967
Hands touching
the thing.
1483
01:12:28,970 --> 01:12:31,758
And I think that's part of the ways
that he kind of is able to
1484
01:12:31,931 --> 01:12:34,264
bring the audience
into her death
1485
01:12:34,433 --> 01:12:37,096
rather than just, watching her,
watching her die.
1486
01:12:37,270 --> 01:12:41,355
Now she's begging for her life,
trying to hold herself up.
1487
01:12:41,524 --> 01:12:44,107
The way that her hair leaves
like a trail behind her
1488
01:12:44,277 --> 01:12:45,939
it follows her down..
1489
01:12:46,153 --> 01:12:48,566
I mean, it's an
incredibly haunting image.
1490
01:12:48,739 --> 01:12:50,651
And it's a wall.
1491
01:12:50,658 --> 01:12:52,274
You know,
you had depth before
1492
01:12:52,285 --> 01:12:54,948
and now she's just flat
against nothingness.
1493
01:12:54,954 --> 01:12:56,411
Nobody did this before.
1494
01:12:58,833 --> 01:13:01,997
Deaths were quick
in movies.
1495
01:13:02,169 --> 01:13:05,753
And although actors
loved to make the most of them
1496
01:13:05,756 --> 01:13:09,249
this is so obviously
directed in such a way.
1497
01:13:09,427 --> 01:13:11,488
You know, in "Torn Curtain,"
there's this endless scene
1498
01:13:11,512 --> 01:13:13,344
of trying
to kill someone.
1499
01:13:13,514 --> 01:13:14,925
It's not bloody
but it's graphic.
1500
01:13:15,099 --> 01:13:17,432
Even "Frenzy"
is fairly graphic
1501
01:13:17,435 --> 01:13:19,848
uh, compared
to "Psycho."
1502
01:13:20,021 --> 01:13:22,559
But "Psycho" has the
effect of being graphic
1503
01:13:22,565 --> 01:13:25,103
much like "Texas Chainsaw
Massacre" later was.
1504
01:13:26,694 --> 01:13:30,233
I love how slow it is,
how much time it takes.
1505
01:13:30,406 --> 01:13:32,944
There's all this negative
space on the left hand side.
1506
01:13:33,117 --> 01:13:35,484
This is
absolutely intentional.
1507
01:13:35,494 --> 01:13:37,406
Hitchcock
is mirroring the shot
1508
01:13:37,580 --> 01:13:39,162
at the beginning
of the sequence
1509
01:13:39,332 --> 01:13:40,698
where Marion
is showering
1510
01:13:40,708 --> 01:13:42,540
in exactly the right hand
side of the frame.
1511
01:13:42,710 --> 01:13:45,999
It is the book end that
makes the shower scene.
1512
01:13:46,172 --> 01:13:49,415
My favorite cut is the hand coming
around onto the curtain
1513
01:13:49,592 --> 01:13:52,380
and it's all of a sudden
from the staccato rhythms
1514
01:13:52,553 --> 01:13:54,920
you end up with this
really fluid shot
1515
01:13:55,097 --> 01:13:59,057
that has a sort of almost, kind of,
poetic and sad quality to it.
1516
01:13:59,060 --> 01:14:01,552
She's dying and
there's a softness to it
1517
01:14:01,729 --> 01:14:04,267
and it makes it
just instantly emotional.
1518
01:14:04,482 --> 01:14:07,099
It's really,
really a great cut.
1519
01:14:07,109 --> 01:14:09,066
It's... it's one of the
best cuts I've ever seen.
1520
01:14:10,696 --> 01:14:13,109
You can just
barely see the outline
1521
01:14:13,282 --> 01:14:17,026
of my breast in that shot.
That's my hand.
1522
01:14:17,203 --> 01:14:20,287
And you can tell the difference
on my knuckles there.
1523
01:14:20,456 --> 01:14:23,290
The, uh, ring finger
is disfigured a bit.
1524
01:14:23,292 --> 01:14:25,158
The nail is darker
1525
01:14:25,336 --> 01:14:28,420
than a regular
fingernail.
1526
01:14:28,589 --> 01:14:31,423
When I was three years old,
I... I reached down to help my
1527
01:14:31,592 --> 01:14:33,128
brother on a,
uh, lawn mower
1528
01:14:33,302 --> 01:14:36,136
push lawn mower and,
pssh, cut it off.
1529
01:14:39,642 --> 01:14:44,182
This is he shot that, uh,
Cecil B. DeMille actually did first
1530
01:14:44,188 --> 01:14:46,020
in "The Ten
Commandments"
1531
01:14:46,232 --> 01:14:49,191
where Sally Lung
pulls down on the curtain.
1532
01:14:52,947 --> 01:14:55,860
This shot, the... the down shot, she
just feels so vulnerable
1533
01:14:55,866 --> 01:14:57,482
like a,
like a dying animal.
1534
01:14:57,493 --> 01:14:59,155
It's just such a, again,
such a bold shot
1535
01:14:59,161 --> 01:15:02,120
because s... so much like,
nudity is revealed.
1536
01:15:02,123 --> 01:15:05,833
There is a shot
in the shower scene
1537
01:15:06,002 --> 01:15:07,459
that was never used
1538
01:15:07,628 --> 01:15:09,308
that is one of the most
heartbreaking shots
1539
01:15:09,380 --> 01:15:11,337
I've ever seen.
1540
01:15:11,340 --> 01:15:14,458
Anne Heche, she was definitely
willing to do stuff.
1541
01:15:14,468 --> 01:15:17,677
That one shot at the end, where
she's slumped over
1542
01:15:17,888 --> 01:15:21,006
that was the shot that
Hitchcock could not use.
1543
01:15:21,225 --> 01:15:22,511
But it was storyboarded.
1544
01:15:22,685 --> 01:15:25,268
There were objections
to using that
1545
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:27,516
and perhaps, Hitch felt
1546
01:15:27,523 --> 01:15:29,043
that it wasn't
really necessary anyway.
1547
01:15:30,026 --> 01:15:31,767
Then we return to
1548
01:15:31,944 --> 01:15:33,310
the motif
of the showerhead
1549
01:15:33,487 --> 01:15:35,649
the impassive eye,
which has just watched
1550
01:15:35,656 --> 01:15:37,693
this horrible
thing happen.
1551
01:15:37,700 --> 01:15:40,238
This shot of the showerhead at the
beginning of the scene
1552
01:15:40,453 --> 01:15:43,161
was one of joy, she was
going to get a new start.
1553
01:15:43,164 --> 01:15:46,532
And now that same water
is washing away
1554
01:15:46,709 --> 01:15:49,827
the evidence of her
existence and the murder.
1555
01:15:50,004 --> 01:15:53,213
The water keeps running
and the blood flows
1556
01:15:53,382 --> 01:15:55,089
but the heart
is stopping.
1557
01:15:55,259 --> 01:15:58,627
It's just such an amazing
image to see her life
1558
01:15:58,846 --> 01:16:00,633
flowing down the drain.
1559
01:16:00,639 --> 01:16:02,551
You know,
what a metaphor that is.
1560
01:16:05,186 --> 01:16:07,269
And then switches
to the eye, right?
1561
01:16:09,774 --> 01:16:11,106
Aw, come on.
1562
01:16:12,943 --> 01:16:14,559
That's so good.
1563
01:16:15,362 --> 01:16:18,230
I wonder how long this
shot is, how long she had to hold.
1564
01:16:18,407 --> 01:16:19,113
To get her eye to stay..
1565
01:16:19,283 --> 01:16:20,774
Just to make sure
that her eye didn't twitch.
1566
01:16:20,785 --> 01:16:23,243
You can t... you can
see a tiny bit, I mean..
1567
01:16:23,245 --> 01:16:25,988
Oh, my God,
that's incredible.
1568
01:16:25,998 --> 01:16:28,331
The pointless s... spiraling
of the universe
1569
01:16:28,501 --> 01:16:30,834
and the way that everything is
ultimately drawn down
1570
01:16:31,003 --> 01:16:33,290
the plughole
towards oblivion
1571
01:16:33,464 --> 01:16:35,205
towards meaningless
death.
1572
01:16:35,382 --> 01:16:38,671
I think to some extent we are
looking at Hitchcock's fears
1573
01:16:38,677 --> 01:16:40,213
as well
as his obsessions.
1574
01:16:43,099 --> 01:16:45,967
You see it in "Barton Fink," you see
it in so many movies.
1575
01:16:45,976 --> 01:16:47,717
And you're like, why is he
going inside the drain?
1576
01:16:47,728 --> 01:16:49,688
Why is he going inside,
are we going to go inside?
1577
01:16:51,398 --> 01:16:53,264
That is the moment
of "Psycho"
1578
01:16:53,275 --> 01:16:55,983
where everything
changes.
1579
01:16:56,153 --> 01:16:59,317
This was made by
1580
01:16:59,490 --> 01:17:01,573
an auteur filmmaker
1581
01:17:01,742 --> 01:17:04,450
and that is
a very personal stamp.
1582
01:17:06,247 --> 01:17:07,829
It's a rupture
in the movie
1583
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:09,326
but the movie
never achieves
1584
01:17:09,333 --> 01:17:11,575
this kind
of poetry again.
1585
01:17:11,585 --> 01:17:13,952
And you begin
to realize that
1586
01:17:14,130 --> 01:17:16,622
"Oh, this was
what really
1587
01:17:16,632 --> 01:17:19,090
mattered most
to Hitchcock."
1588
01:17:19,093 --> 01:17:22,257
Tomasini has done
a clockwise turn optically
1589
01:17:22,263 --> 01:17:24,380
which then
right about here
1590
01:17:24,390 --> 01:17:27,804
hooks back up
to the 24 frame footage.
1591
01:17:30,729 --> 01:17:33,312
I'm just amazed
that they were able to get that clean.
1592
01:17:33,315 --> 01:17:35,602
Usually, when you do
an optical, it's pretty grainy.
1593
01:17:35,609 --> 01:17:37,771
But it looks so smooth
and so beautiful.
1594
01:17:37,945 --> 01:17:39,527
It's surprising
an... an... and seamless
1595
01:17:39,738 --> 01:17:41,070
from where they go
to live action.
1596
01:17:41,073 --> 01:17:42,985
It's I... like, one of
the greatest opticals
1597
01:17:43,159 --> 01:17:44,445
in the history
of movies.
1598
01:17:44,618 --> 01:17:47,201
It's also kind of like
what the title sequence
1599
01:17:47,371 --> 01:17:48,737
is doing in "Vertigo."
1600
01:17:48,956 --> 01:17:50,618
It's a theme that
runs through this film
1601
01:17:50,624 --> 01:17:51,831
and then later on,
of course
1602
01:17:52,001 --> 01:17:53,492
it's not style
just for style's sake.
1603
01:17:53,669 --> 01:17:55,251
It's... it's
got content.
1604
01:17:55,254 --> 01:17:57,496
The cameras were huge
1605
01:17:57,506 --> 01:18:01,170
and very difficult
to manipulate.
1606
01:18:01,385 --> 01:18:04,048
You can actually
see pictures
1607
01:18:04,054 --> 01:18:06,137
of Hitchcock
behind a Mitchell
1608
01:18:06,307 --> 01:18:08,344
and you get a sense
of what it was like
1609
01:18:08,350 --> 01:18:10,137
riding on that carriage
1610
01:18:10,311 --> 01:18:14,100
behind that huge
locomotive of a camera.
1611
01:18:14,273 --> 01:18:16,606
Whereas today,
it's a snap.
1612
01:18:16,609 --> 01:18:18,646
You just do it like
Gus Van Sant.
1613
01:18:18,819 --> 01:18:20,856
In the remake,
he did it all live action.
1614
01:18:27,661 --> 01:18:29,573
The pullback
from her eye
1615
01:18:29,788 --> 01:18:33,077
was a whole
robotic camera move.
1616
01:18:33,250 --> 01:18:34,707
I seriously followed
1617
01:18:34,877 --> 01:18:38,086
the original film
shot by shot.
1618
01:18:38,255 --> 01:18:42,295
I was able to cut it
exactly like the original
1619
01:18:42,468 --> 01:18:43,754
and we watched it
1620
01:18:43,761 --> 01:18:47,254
and it was weird
and it didn't work.
1621
01:18:47,431 --> 01:18:50,469
I said, "Well, Gus, you know,
come over, watch the scene."
1622
01:18:50,643 --> 01:18:52,555
I said, "I have
a few reservations
1623
01:18:52,561 --> 01:18:54,769
"over like,
how it's playing right now
1624
01:18:54,939 --> 01:18:57,022
and it doesn't feel like
the shower scene yet."
1625
01:18:57,191 --> 01:19:00,434
We went in
and tried to make it
1626
01:19:00,444 --> 01:19:02,936
a little more
Gus Van Sant-y.
1627
01:19:03,155 --> 01:19:04,737
To duplicate something,
like
1628
01:19:04,907 --> 01:19:07,115
as iconic
as the shower scene
1629
01:19:07,326 --> 01:19:11,320
I really think it was just,
it wasn't going to work.
1630
01:19:11,538 --> 01:19:13,279
It just didn't
and it just didn't.
1631
01:19:15,292 --> 01:19:18,581
I always love the placement
of those drops of water
1632
01:19:18,754 --> 01:19:21,337
because
they're like tears.
1633
01:19:21,507 --> 01:19:25,251
Right at the end, there's
a little flicker in her eye
1634
01:19:25,427 --> 01:19:27,965
little highlight
in her eye.
1635
01:19:28,180 --> 01:19:30,046
Yeah, and you can see
her eye move.
1636
01:19:30,224 --> 01:19:34,468
There's a tight, slight
blink of the eye there.
1637
01:19:35,521 --> 01:19:39,105
Hitchcock almost
fetishistically
1638
01:19:39,108 --> 01:19:41,851
lingers in this
post-mortem moment.
1639
01:19:42,027 --> 01:19:44,485
This is what happens
after you die
1640
01:19:44,488 --> 01:19:46,104
and no one turns off
the water.
1641
01:19:46,115 --> 01:19:49,654
Hitch had a little
snap of the finger
1642
01:19:49,868 --> 01:19:51,734
to let Janet know
when the camera had passed
1643
01:19:51,912 --> 01:19:54,120
and was going to pan
into the room.
1644
01:19:54,123 --> 01:19:56,160
It, it took
a lot of takes.
1645
01:19:56,166 --> 01:19:58,203
I could feel
the moleskin
1646
01:19:58,377 --> 01:20:02,166
pulling away
from my top part.
1647
01:20:02,172 --> 01:20:04,380
And so, I could
feel this..
1648
01:20:04,550 --> 01:20:06,166
It was just kind of
like going..
1649
01:20:07,928 --> 01:20:11,797
And I thought,
"You know what?
1650
01:20:11,974 --> 01:20:14,432
"I don't want to do
this damn thing again.
1651
01:20:14,435 --> 01:20:16,051
I really don't want to."
1652
01:20:16,061 --> 01:20:18,348
And there are all the guys
on the scaffolding.
1653
01:20:18,355 --> 01:20:22,144
And I said, "I don't, I'm not going
to be modest," you know.
1654
01:20:22,359 --> 01:20:23,019
Let 'em look.
1655
01:20:25,446 --> 01:20:27,187
Why would you cut
to the shower there?
1656
01:20:27,364 --> 01:20:28,855
I don't think
the reason has
1657
01:20:28,866 --> 01:20:31,233
anything to do
with artistic decision.
1658
01:20:31,243 --> 01:20:34,862
It's... it's the solution
to some problem that he had.
1659
01:20:35,039 --> 01:20:37,076
After my grandfather
filmed "Psycho"
1660
01:20:37,249 --> 01:20:39,286
it had been shown
to all the executives.
1661
01:20:39,460 --> 01:20:41,201
The last person he showed it
to was my grandmother
1662
01:20:41,211 --> 01:20:43,203
and they were sitting
in the screening room
1663
01:20:43,380 --> 01:20:46,168
and he's panning out and she looks at
my grandfather and says
1664
01:20:46,175 --> 01:20:47,791
"Hitch, you can't
release this."
1665
01:20:47,801 --> 01:20:48,962
And he said, "Why not?"
1666
01:20:48,969 --> 01:20:51,006
And she goes, "Janet Leigh
took a breath."
1667
01:20:51,013 --> 01:20:53,471
They couldn't reshoot it,
Janet was gone.
1668
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:55,256
Uh, they didn't
have the budget.
1669
01:20:55,434 --> 01:20:59,178
So they simply cut back to the
showerhead spewing water.
1670
01:21:02,316 --> 01:21:06,856
And then,
that cynical camera move.
1671
01:21:06,862 --> 01:21:11,323
She made her moral decision and
this is what it got her.
1672
01:21:11,492 --> 01:21:13,092
There's an image
of the uncaring universe
1673
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:14,742
if you want one.
1674
01:21:14,912 --> 01:21:16,869
And you see the headline there,
"Okay."
1675
01:21:16,872 --> 01:21:17,872
I... i... it
is not okay.
1676
01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:19,497
Nothing is okay.
1677
01:21:19,666 --> 01:21:21,282
He always comes back
to his McGuffin
1678
01:21:21,460 --> 01:21:24,498
which is the $40,000.
1679
01:21:24,505 --> 01:21:27,339
Then he throws the newspaper
into the quagmire.
1680
01:21:27,341 --> 01:21:29,799
It goes down
with the car.
1681
01:21:30,010 --> 01:21:32,127
And the audience says,
that's j... the
1682
01:21:32,137 --> 01:21:34,299
the... the,
that's the money
1683
01:21:34,306 --> 01:21:36,138
that we thought was
important in this story.
1684
01:21:36,308 --> 01:21:37,719
It's totally
unimportant.
1685
01:21:37,726 --> 01:21:39,286
This is the one other
thing in the movie
1686
01:21:39,311 --> 01:21:40,643
that always tortured me.
1687
01:21:40,813 --> 01:21:42,145
The greatest scene
in movie history
1688
01:21:42,147 --> 01:21:43,479
ends on a sour note
1689
01:21:43,482 --> 01:21:46,020
with a bad ADR line
1690
01:21:46,026 --> 01:21:47,642
that has been the doom
of so many movies.
1691
01:21:54,451 --> 01:21:55,612
Here comes Norman
1692
01:21:55,786 --> 01:21:56,947
just wondering
what happened
1693
01:21:57,121 --> 01:21:59,864
and oh, my,
he can't believe it.
1694
01:21:59,873 --> 01:22:01,910
Another murder at the motel.
How did that happen?
1695
01:22:03,919 --> 01:22:06,127
It's an extraordinary
aftermath.
1696
01:22:06,130 --> 01:22:09,294
It's a crucial piece
of the filmmaking
1697
01:22:09,466 --> 01:22:13,506
to sort of let the consequence
of it actually land.
1698
01:22:13,512 --> 01:22:15,845
It's not about getting
the bloodstains out of the tub.
1699
01:22:16,014 --> 01:22:18,256
It's about this
1700
01:22:18,434 --> 01:22:22,895
incredibly
laborious process
1701
01:22:23,063 --> 01:22:25,476
that this unbearably
1702
01:22:25,482 --> 01:22:27,599
damaged soul
1703
01:22:27,776 --> 01:22:30,143
needs to work through.
1704
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:34,189
It demands not just that
we watch as we watched
1705
01:22:34,366 --> 01:22:36,278
the murder
of Marion Crane
1706
01:22:36,452 --> 01:22:38,694
but we're also
voyeurs to
1707
01:22:38,871 --> 01:22:42,364
the horror
of Norman's world.
1708
01:22:42,541 --> 01:22:44,954
For me,
the cleanup represents
1709
01:22:45,127 --> 01:22:49,417
Alfred Hitchcock's
sense of orderliness
1710
01:22:49,590 --> 01:22:53,004
sense of, I wasn't sexually
aroused by this woman
1711
01:22:53,177 --> 01:22:55,385
and I'm just
going to pretend
1712
01:22:55,554 --> 01:23:00,265
that this unhappy episode
just didn't even occur.
1713
01:23:00,267 --> 01:23:04,181
I think that cleaning
always represents
1714
01:23:04,354 --> 01:23:05,720
sexual guilt.
1715
01:23:05,731 --> 01:23:07,723
You care
about this guy.
1716
01:23:07,733 --> 01:23:10,271
And I know it sounds
crazy, but you do.
1717
01:23:10,277 --> 01:23:13,020
You want to know what's
going to happen to him.
1718
01:23:13,030 --> 01:23:15,363
You want to know is he
going to be free of this
1719
01:23:15,532 --> 01:23:17,239
or is it going
to consume him?
1720
01:23:17,409 --> 01:23:20,243
The fact that he is able
to get you to care
1721
01:23:20,245 --> 01:23:22,862
is one of the miracles
of the movie.
1722
01:23:25,501 --> 01:23:28,164
"Psycho" obviously
has influence
1723
01:23:28,378 --> 01:23:30,461
on a whole
host of movies.
1724
01:23:30,631 --> 01:23:33,669
"Psycho" is the mother
of the slasher genre.
1725
01:23:33,842 --> 01:23:37,802
The shower scene is really
the first, um, fully sexualized
1726
01:23:37,804 --> 01:23:39,295
on-screen, um,
knife attack.
1727
01:23:39,473 --> 01:23:41,840
You have Mario Bava
in Italy
1728
01:23:41,850 --> 01:23:44,593
and he's taking the visuals
of the "Psycho" scene.
1729
01:23:44,770 --> 01:23:46,978
In Italy, in the '60s
1730
01:23:47,147 --> 01:23:48,747
they didn't have
the same censorship laws
1731
01:23:50,150 --> 01:23:51,937
Bava takes
the Hitchcock style
1732
01:23:51,944 --> 01:23:56,154
and really creates
the Italian Giallo film.
1733
01:23:56,156 --> 01:23:58,022
Dario Argento
burst onto the scene
1734
01:23:58,200 --> 01:24:00,237
with "Bird with
the Crystal Plumage"
1735
01:24:00,244 --> 01:24:03,658
determined to present murder
as a form of fine art
1736
01:24:03,664 --> 01:24:06,907
consistently sexualizes
and fetishizes the killings
1737
01:24:06,917 --> 01:24:10,376
um, um, tries to present them
as something beautiful
1738
01:24:10,379 --> 01:24:13,042
cathartic and almost
orgasmic which happens
1739
01:24:13,048 --> 01:24:14,459
again and again
in his work.
1740
01:24:16,468 --> 01:24:18,710
Then, of course,
the American films
1741
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:20,461
started imitating
Italian films.
1742
01:24:20,639 --> 01:24:23,097
And you get the wave
of slasher films of the '80s kicking off
1743
01:24:23,267 --> 01:24:24,929
with John Carpenter's
"Halloween."
1744
01:24:25,143 --> 01:24:27,260
"Psycho" might have also
really have started
1745
01:24:27,437 --> 01:24:30,396
the rather negative trend
of victims undressing
1746
01:24:30,566 --> 01:24:32,168
before they're butchered,
which is something
1747
01:24:32,192 --> 01:24:35,651
that haunted slasher cinema
throughout the '70s.
1748
01:24:35,654 --> 01:24:38,146
Martin Scorsese
talks about
1749
01:24:38,323 --> 01:24:41,316
the construction
of the fight
1750
01:24:41,326 --> 01:24:44,660
in "Raging Bull,"
with Sugar Ray Robinson.
1751
01:24:44,663 --> 01:24:46,370
I literally got
shot-by-shot breakdown
1752
01:24:46,373 --> 01:24:48,160
of the shower scene
in "Psycho"
1753
01:24:48,333 --> 01:24:50,495
and really got
my original storyboards
1754
01:24:50,669 --> 01:24:52,911
for this one sequence
shot-by-shot
1755
01:24:52,921 --> 01:24:54,332
and shot it
in that order.
1756
01:24:56,300 --> 01:24:57,882
I don't believe
film influences
1757
01:24:58,051 --> 01:25:00,509
the culture in this
way anymore.
1758
01:25:00,679 --> 01:25:03,843
When a... a moment of
violence is so suggestive
1759
01:25:04,016 --> 01:25:06,099
so new, so unlike
anything we've seen
1760
01:25:06,268 --> 01:25:07,759
that it just becomes
1761
01:25:07,769 --> 01:25:09,681
part of the cultural
conversation
1762
01:25:09,688 --> 01:25:10,928
and I think
that's what happened
1763
01:25:11,064 --> 01:25:12,305
with the shower scene.
1764
01:26:12,959 --> 01:26:15,918
I'm on this TV show
called "Screen Queens."
1765
01:26:17,881 --> 01:26:19,281
I've been asked
to get in the shower
1766
01:26:19,383 --> 01:26:21,466
and take pictures
before.
1767
01:26:21,468 --> 01:26:25,257
I've been asked
to recreate it.
1768
01:26:25,430 --> 01:26:27,262
And I've said
"No" every time
1769
01:26:27,432 --> 01:26:29,845
because of course, um, this is
my mother's legacy
1770
01:26:29,851 --> 01:26:32,969
and it is not mine to,
to play in.
1771
01:26:33,146 --> 01:26:34,933
It's her sandbox.
1772
01:26:35,107 --> 01:26:38,851
But my mother's been
gone now over 10 years.
1773
01:26:39,027 --> 01:26:42,191
And this
is a great show.
1774
01:26:42,197 --> 01:26:45,065
And it was
a really respectful
1775
01:26:45,283 --> 01:26:47,866
funny, homage.
1776
01:26:50,330 --> 01:26:52,367
And so the Red Devil
comes along
1777
01:26:52,374 --> 01:26:54,616
he rips open the curtain
1778
01:26:54,793 --> 01:26:56,785
but I'm not there.
1779
01:26:57,003 --> 01:27:00,417
And that second I come from
behind the bathroom door
1780
01:27:00,590 --> 01:27:03,958
attack him and right before I do,
I look at him and go
1781
01:27:04,136 --> 01:27:06,628
"I saw that movie like,
50 times!"
1782
01:27:15,731 --> 01:27:17,563
I went back to Chicago
1783
01:27:17,774 --> 01:27:21,142
shot the, uh,
September 1960 cover.
1784
01:27:22,988 --> 01:27:24,149
I worked
at the Playboy Club
1785
01:27:24,322 --> 01:27:27,110
until probably October
of that year.
1786
01:27:27,117 --> 01:27:30,576
I was one of, uh, the original,
uh, bunnies there.
1787
01:27:30,579 --> 01:27:32,366
I never mentioned
"Psycho."
1788
01:27:34,332 --> 01:27:37,370
The shot
I didn't like was
1789
01:27:37,544 --> 01:27:40,537
when, uh, Tony Perkins
pulls me out of the tub
1790
01:27:40,714 --> 01:27:44,003
and wraps me in the,
in the shower curtain.
1791
01:27:44,176 --> 01:27:47,169
He picks me up to
carry me out to the trunk.
1792
01:27:47,179 --> 01:27:49,887
Well, he, he gets me up about,
I don't know, six, nine inches
1793
01:27:50,056 --> 01:27:52,048
off the floor
and drops me back down
1794
01:27:52,058 --> 01:27:55,927
because he... he wasn't in a position
to pick up a dead weight.
1795
01:27:56,146 --> 01:27:57,986
He picks me up,
puts me on his knees and then..
1796
01:28:00,192 --> 01:28:01,808
...and that's me.
1797
01:28:01,985 --> 01:28:04,853
And that's, uh, out to the car
and that's the end of me.
146977
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