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- A mix tape to me is an invitation

to enter into someone else's world.

- A mix tape is a set of
songs that are designed

to evoke a specific set of
emotions or a mood or feeling,

or something you're trying to say.

They're basically a letter from
yourself to another person.

A mix tape is utilizing the
finite amount of minutes

to define a musical,
emotional environment,

where you can put it on
and go through your past,

your future, your present, in a way that

is emotionally poignant.

- A mix tape is an instrument that you use

to show someone your coolness,

and the cool things and
culture that you like.

And you put them all together
on one cassette like,

your whole collection of coolness.

- Because of that, it's
incredibly intimate.

When you know someone well
enough to give them a mix,

it's almost like knowing
someone well enough

to say I love you.

You're running that risk of rejection.

- I totally edited the mixes
that people gave to me,

because no one does it better than me.

(laughs)

- A mix tape is the gateway
to the entrance of your soul.

It's either like you're allowed
in or you're fucking denied.

(laughs)

- You have to make great mix
tapes if you're a music lover.

It's just a part of, you
don't have to be a musician.

You just have to love music.

And that first track is so imperative.

- It's really about knowing
what songs sync together,

what songs blend together,
and having, like,

creating a feeling, and
taking people on a journey.

- A mix tape is a traveling sound collage.

A full-circle experience.

- The entire day, spread out musically.

And if it's done properly,

you're gonna have the best
fucking day of your life.

- A mix tape, to me, is
an expression of songs.

- An expression of yourself.

- A communication of some feelings.

- Holds the key to your
whole soul and being.

- Where I've been and where I am now.

- It's an incantation.

It's an invitation.

- It's a perfectly captured moment.

- You make it with great affection.

It takes time.

I put it in the tape deck, I'm like damn!

My hair stands up.

I get all gooey inside.

- A mix tape is an opportunity to express

through the collage of
different artists, a story.

(upbeat music)

(upbeat rock music)

- Hazel was interested in
getting a record player

for a little while.

And so I was researching online

and I found this record player that also

had a tape player built in.

I was like, well that's gotta
be the one we're gonna get.

Got her a Beach House
record, Death Cab record,

stuff like that.

And then I was like, oh wait,

I think I've got that box
of tapes in the garage.

So I went and grabbed
this box of tapes here.

And it's mostly mix tapes,
including the mix tape

that I made for your mother
when we first started dating.

And so we just kind of sat on the floor

and listened to a bunch of these tapes.

So you take the tape,

that's got to be on the left
hand side, put it in here,

turn this on.

We need to plug it in.

(both laughing)

That's an important part.

- [Hazel] Yeah, that might
affect it a little bit.

- [Robert] What was the
first musical format

that you listened to?

Like, did you buy CDs or
was it just digital music?

- No, I think I had, like, a CD player.

I'm sure it was pink or Hello
Kitty, or something like that.

- Something, yeah.

- And yeah, I think I
listened to some CDs.

I remember listening to
Phoenix, "Listzomania."

I have like really
distinct memories of that.

- Really?
- Yeah.

- On CD?

- I think so.

- Did we have that CD?

- Yeah, I think so.

I remember putting it in, and like-

- It was probably a CD-R.

Do you know what a CD-R is?

- No.

- Should we talk about that?
- This is a good start.

- All right, yeah, all right.

(upbeat music)

- Well, the first thing
we had was 8-tracks.

We started out with a
massive amount of 8-tracks,

and then my uncle had an
8-track player in his car,

so that was a big deal.

It was like whenever anybody
got to drive that car

with the 8-track player in it,

they always went crazy over the 8-tracks.

- I hated 8-track right away

because it would break
up one song on the side.

It would go,

it would be like la la la la la kkk-chunk,

then it would be la la la la la.

That's not nice.

They should never have done that.

- Vinyl was a big part of it,

because the record
collections were all vinyl.

So it was like, going
through those and looking

at the album covers.

A lot of albums I know
I knew as a kid and knew

of them just because of the covers

had really dope artwork on them.

Or, you know, something on
the cover that stood out.

- With my mom in Brookline,

I remember not necessarily
what records she'd have on,

but I remember looking
at her record collection

while she was gone, and picking from that

and seeing the record to

the Joe Cocker record,
with his crazy face.

His like ahh face.

- If you were just looking at album covers

and being like, Who is this girl

with all this crazy makeup on?

And then you get home
and it's like Nina Hagen,

and you're like, This is
different, you know what I mean?

(singing in foreign language)

- I definitely remember falling in love

with a lot of imagery,

a lot of album covers.

And I felt like it deepened
the listening experience.

The earliest thing that I can remember,

insofar is developing a
relationship with music

or falling in love with music really comes

from my memories of sharing
time with my father.

Listening to him spin records.

It was never a conscious
thing that we did.

It just seemed like that
was always the fallback.

- My mother was incredibly
eclectic with music.

She has, in my opinion,
pitch perfect taste in music.

While I don't have every record she had,

20 Barbara Streisand
records I can live without.

However, she raised me,
Miles Davis, Bartok,

Broadway show tunes, Jimi
Hendrix, The Beatles,

Bob Dylan, both Guthries, Pete Seeger,

and on and on, and on.

- When I really got,

I was old enough to get my own,

it was like a my first Sony type thing.

It had a cassette player.

It was portable.

Red with like big green and blue buttons,

probably for a little kid.

And I remember my mom allowing
me to purchase "Purple Rain."

(laughing)

Which I used to know all
the words to "Purple Rain",

and I had no idea.

Like, "Darling Nikki", right over my head.

♪ You could say she was a sex fiend ♪

- The very, very, very
first record that I bought

was actually "Hang on
Sloopy" by Jan and Dean,

because I thought that they
were singing Hang on Snoopy.

And I was a big Snoopy fan.

♪ Hanging round the water
fountain, playing the fool ♪

- My idea with the mix
tape was putting a record

on the stereo, holding the
single speaker cassette deck

with a condenser mic to the
speaker and being real quiet,

and recording the song.

- You'd like listen late
night, off the radio.

And at the time, like with the radio shit,

it's not like your CDs or
your records where it records

at a certain level.

Like, however loud you got the radio,

that's how loud it's gonna record.

- Everybody would sit
there with their finger

on the pause button,
waiting for it to come on

and as soon as that show
started on the radio,

you would record it.

And then if you had a
dual cassette recorder,

you could dub that cassette
and then give it to one

of your friends.

- There just wasn't a
lot of money to go around

and to buy records, and
the way that my friends

and I discovered new
music was specifically

through creating tapes.

You didn't let your records go out.

You made a tape.

- I took over one of my parents' cars

and it had a cassette player in it,

and what I wanted was to be
able to play whatever I wanted.

And I never really liked a
whole album all the way through.

I always liked only certain songs.

- The mix tape was kind
of like the equivalent

of your first bike.

Because it was like the first moment

where musical freedom was given to you.

- Let's put Iggy Pop with Guy Lombardo.

Or, I don't know, you
could just do anything.

You could make a tape
and that was, you know,

you were expressing who you were.

- The thing is that people
don't realize between vinyl

and tape is the vinyl is
already the classic record.

That Bowie record is a classic record.

The Metallica record is a classic record

and it's the mix tape is really a view

into what you like and who you are,

and how all these things relate to you.

- I really wanna tap into
my inner feelings the most,

and look at it as a journal,
like a diary entry as well.

This is what I'm feeling.

This is where I've been, and
I'm sharing that in this mix.

- I like being able to
take all of these artists

that you would never
think would go together

and put them together,
because it's about the groove.

It's not about the genre to me.

- You know, mix tapes are
giving people a chance

to really remix the culture
in a weird way, you know?

- One of the earliest memories
I have of sharing music

for people was when a lot
of sort of more salacious

and underground rap and
hip-hop music came around.

It was a lot of music you
didn't want your parents

to know you were listening to,

because they positively
couldn't understand it

and it was ushering you
into a world that you

had absolutely no frame of reference for.

- Like I see this one guy,
he lives in the suburbs

but there's all these bands
he doesn't know about,

and he's gotta hear
them because these bands

are gonna save his life.

So he's gotta get a cassette of it.

And I'm gonna sit up all
night and make this cassette

for him to make this C60 TDK.

It's gonna save his life.

(upbeat music)

- [Robert] All right, so
what's our first step?

- I'll look through my dad's music.

So I'm picking some rockin' songs to show

that I have a rockin' dad.

- So, is there anything that stands out

from what you've looked at so far?

- I've seeing a lot of
My Bloody Valentine.

I mean, there's so many to look through.

So the first one's gotta be good.

That's a lot of pressure.

So some of these don't even
have like words on them.

So, I don't know.

I don't know what that is.

I know "Bizarre Love Triangle."

- Okay.
- I like that one.

"Swap meet."

"Fake Empire."

We definitely care about U2.

Something from The Joshua Tree.

- Gonna put "Live Forever."
- All right.

Definitely something from here.

He loves "Rushmore."

I have a Beach House CD.

The Beatles.

I'm not sure if I should
do "Help," or "Let it Be."

Is it against the rules to put
two songs by the same band in

"Get Me Away From Here, I'm Dying."

"Arcade Fire."

Definitely is gonna go in there.

- Okay.

(upbeat music)

- My early days of making a mix tape.

This is back when I had this many records

and this many cassettes.

You have less of everything.

So everything is of greater importance.

I'm going to take the
entire weekend and I'm going

to take this blank 90-minute tape,

that cost me about an
hour's pay, and I'm going

to make a beautiful environment of music.

90 perfect minutes.

A sonic environment that
you can live in and enjoy.

- You'd get a 90-minute cassette.

You know, a Maxell Type II, of course.

You can't do anything with Type I.

What's Type I?

It's gotta be Type II.

- My go-to mix tape were these,

these blank Maxells, XL IIs.

The 100-minute version,

just because I could fit a
little more music on there.

- Never used the 120s, because the quality

is a little bit shitty.

But 90s.

An XL II 90.

- I think whichever one
was on sale, to be honest

with you, man.

Like whichever I could buy a bundle

of three or five pack bundle.

- I would buy them in
packs of five, right.

You'd buy the five pack.

for, I don't know, $10
or whatever they were.

And they were the gold ones.

- Now I didn't know what was the best.

It just had gold on it.

- It's gold, and so it must be good!

- You pulled that Maxell
Gold out, people knew.

They's like, oh man he's
pulling out the heat.

He's got the heat on that one.

- I don't even know what Type II means.

I have no idea.

I just assume it's better than Type I.

Like Type I is junior.

Or like Type I is like
the entry-level or novice,

and Type II must be like expert.

So I just, you know.

Will we ever solve the mystery?

What's Type II?

I have no idea.

- I'm trying to remember all the brands.

It was like Maxell, Sony, Memorex.

And then the Memorex
commercial where the guy,

was it Memorex or Maxell
where the guy's sitting

in the chair and the wind's blowing?

And we all like, yeah we're going

to get those because that's good sound.

- I would never use Memorex,

even though the commercial is amazing.

(grand orchestral music)

I always get drop-outs.

And someone once told
me, you're just magnetic.

And I just said that's bullshit.

No, I'm not magnetic.

These are shitty tapes.

- Memorex did this dicky
thing during the '80s

where they had the one that
had like pink triangles

and shit on it.

It looked like a fucking explosion

in a "Miami Vice" episode.

It was that thing.

Anytime I saw one of
those, I was like I judged.

I was like, oh you ghetto mix-tape maker.

- When I joined the
band Black Flag in 1981,

I became influenced by
the great producer Spot.

Spot was a TDK man from day one.

And I bought TDK cassettes
because he worked

with them in the studio and
he said, they're reliable.

Batch after batch,
that's my go to cassette.

And so I became a TDK guy.

- This is so fucking nerdy,

but I remember the box itself
was kind of almost curved.

Where the spine had a
little tiny curve to it.

So it kind of felt tactile.

Like in your hand, it felt
substantial and the weight

was beautiful.

I think I actually have
a couple like still in,

I think I might,

I have them somewhere here.

I have them in the,

I still have them in the packaging,

virgin untainted, never been recorded on.

- There was high bias and
like all these weird codes,

what made it sound like
you were getting something,

this is gonna sound good.

It all just sounded like the same tape!

It didn't necessarily sound any better.

It's a fucking cassette.

It's magnetic tape, it's gonna wear out,

so it was always weird
to me that they always

had these BSAFF and LX.

So buy this tape.

It's the best, Memorex,
it's gonna blow your mind.

I was like, mmmm, I still hear a hiss.

(upbeat music)

- There was a 45 a single that
came out in the summer of,

I think, 1975 or '76 called Mr. Jaws.

It would play clips of
songs as the answers

to interview questions.

- [Reporter] We are here on
the beach where a giant shark

has just eaten a girl swimmer.

Well, Mr. Jaws, how was it?

- [Man] Dy-no-mite!

- [Reporter] And what did
she say when you grabbed her?

♪ Please, mister, please ♪

- So I started doing that as a kid.

I would I didn't make a
mix tape full of songs.

I made a mix tape of lines from songs.

- Basically like the mix tape started out

as something specifically put
together as a presentation

of music, but like not necessarily

as one flowing mix of music.

A perfect example of
what I'm trying to say

is like DJ Crazy Toones.

DJ Crazy Toones, his mix
tapes are like movies.

So it's like you start
out with an explosion.

- There was a lot of different acapellas

that DJs used to start off a mix.

So you knew who they were
as soon as they started off.

Like, there used to be
this Tarzan sound effect

that Farley would play on the radio.

(Tarzan shouting)

And you would be like, oh that's Farley.

- The first shit I really started
getting was from New York.

You'd get these DJs from New York

and they'd drop these like mix tapes

with exclusive freestyles over samples

that hadn't been cleared yet or busting

over someone else's beat.

And those were the ones I really, like,

that shit really took off.

- Then we started making these
things called pause mixes.

Everybody that was a kid in the '80s,

or mid to about '85, '86, is
familiar with the pause mix.

Basically, you take
all your favorite songs

and you pause them at certain
points and then you throw in

another song, but you
had to throw it in right

on beat so that it would continue
and make a continuous mix.

- Some tape decks had a harder pause,

so when you let it go it
automatically started recording.

Some of them had slower pauses
so you couldn't really do it,

so there'd be a little lag.

- The number one thing you liked
about the cassette machine,

not necessarily the
Walkman, but the machine

was that goddamn pause button was so tight

that you would not make
mix tapes the way that,

let's say, a love mix tape is.

Which is like here's this
song, it goes into this song,

it goes into this song, and
then here's a full song.

You would make it where it would be like,

I'm gonna take this verse
and then I'm gonna put it

into the bridge of this song,

then I'm gonna take this song

and that's gonna be the chorus.

And you would just hit that
pause button and you were able

to splice together everything you wanted.

- If you wanted to do it like seamless,

you needed to have a mixer.

And I have this, I had this old
Radio Shack 4-channel mixer.

I think I have it back here somewhere.

Yeah, I'm gonna go,

hang on one second.

Yeah, so this is what I had.

This thing right here.

This was the mixer I had.

Left and right and then left and right,

so you'd put one cassette
there and one cassette there

and there was the output.

And then there was another cassette player

recording both of those.

Either it was a turntable
or another cassette player.

So this is my cool little
Radio Shack Realistic mixer

that I used.

I was a little, I was a
perfectionist about it,

so my mix tapes were fucking good.

(tapes scratching)

- So that's how you'd check
to get your first beat,

when you're doing your blend.

Get it right there on the blend and...

(upbeat music)

- We'd take a week

and make a whole tape and then give them

to somebody else and trade them all out.

Every week it would be like,

let me hear what you made this week,

let me hear what you made this week.

- Pretty much mix tapes are
either to make you look cool,

if you're going to blast them, love,

or you're trying to turn
someone on to something.

- It doesn't even involve me.

It just involves what I love.

And I think that's all I'm really trying

to do with my music, is to
show people what I love.

Not because they need to love
it, or it's important to them,

but because it's that five-year-old thing

of look what I made, and,

I think probably mix tapes are,

I think they're one

of the last ways we really
let ourselves do that

before we become adults

and don't do things like that anymore.

- I think the first mix tapes

that I ever made were on a
dual deck cassette player.

And I definitely remember
how much labor went

into making these mixes.

- And then I got one
with a CD player on top,

back when CDs were like $45 a piece.

And so you would have
the CD player on top,

cassette tape there, so then
the whole world was my oyster.

- You have to figure out
first what was the purpose

of the tape?

Was it to inspire emotion?

Was it to turn somebody on to new stuff?

Was it both?

- It just depends what
you're trying to say.

Because that's what mix tapes were.

They were letters to somebody, you know?

- [Robert] Okay, so what we're gonna do,

before you figure out

what order you want everything to be is,

is we're gonna write all the songs.

And then we're gonna look at it

and figure out what
order they should go in.

And so we'll start with CD's.

We have The Cure.

The song is "Push."

And then New Order.

I believe you wanted
"Bizarre Love Triangle."

- Mm-hmm.
- Belle and Sebastian.

- "Get Me Away from Here, I'm Dying."

"Help!"

The Beatles, again.

- "Let it Be", correct?
- Yes.

- Peter Bjorn and John.

"Amsterdam."

Let's do "I Still Haven't
Found What I'm Looking For."

"Fake Empire."

- [Robert] First Nirvana.

I believe you wanted "Swap Meet."

All right, one of your personal favorites.

- Mazzy Star.
- You got that on vinyl.

- It's gonna be an
interesting mix of songs.

- The first track on your mix tape

is the most important thing
ever that you'll ever do

if you decide that you
want to make a mix tape.

- Yeah, it's very important.

You've got to grab the
person's attention immediately.

And I have to grab my own first.

Like, I have to be really into it.

It has to start from
there or else it's kinda,

it's not gonna flow.

- It doesn't matter if
you are a DJ, in a band,

doing a playlist, doing a mix tape.

The first song is what sets
the tone for what is to come.

So when I DJ now, I always play "Gay Bar"

by The Electric Six.

♪ Gay bar, gay bar, gay bar ♪

- It really has to
jumpstart that mix tape.

And if you fail at that, you
will forever be a lost soul

in the mix tape world.

- I saw it as a whole.

The first track was important,

but I think so is the
second, so is the third.

- You have to have a dynamic.

It can't just be this static line.

So, you know, it could be a pop song,

and then a really hot rock song,

and then a slow ballad,
and then like repeat.

- A lot of the process was
what kind of feeling you wanted

to convey, what kind of
emotion you wanted to convey,

or a storyline you wanted to establish.

And so much of that was
done with, you know, key.

I know your people who are
watching this aren't going

to be musicians, but I think

that I always had a
natural instinct for how

to tell a story through different songs,

and the placement of key in
ascending and descending.

What instruments started
off, what instruments ended.

- I remember I did

"Can't You Hear Me Knocking"
into "Everybody Wants Some."

And so there's this
saxophone kind of drum outro

to "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"
and then this drum intro

to "Everybody Wants Some", and it just,

I was so proud of how it sounded.

- I don't know if this is
an experience for others,

but there's songs that I
describe like that song

sounds like what it feels like to be me.

- If you listen to a lot
of my early mix tapes,

Devo and Buzzcocks feature prominently.

Also a song called "Life
of Crime" by The Weirdos.

To this day, I hear it
and go, man, I'm jealous.

I never did anything nearly that good.

- Every mix tape I ever made

had "Charlotte Sometimes" by The Cure.

It was non-negotiable.

- New order, "Bizarre Love Triangle",

The Smiths, "Unlovable",

and I would also have to say,

Pet Shop Boys, "West End Girls."

- PJ Harvey, The Fall, Can.

- Fela Kuti would be
one, Fela and Roy Ayers.

- I guess I would say that
if I had to put one song

on every high school mix tape I ever made,

it's was probably "Let's
Go Crazy" by Prince.

(laughs)

'Cause the beginning is like,

(vocalizing)

"Dearly beloved, we
are gathered here today

to get through this thing called life."

Anything that starts like
that, you should listen

to that man.

(laughs)

- I would often include the X-Ray Spex.

It would usually be right in the middle,

where it would surprise people.

Like, "Oh Bondage! Up Yours!",

of course, famously.

- I would make something so I
could listen to it in the car,

and cruise around, and
surprise people, like,

you'll never guess what's coming next.

And the process was always that.

It was always, like,

trying to do radical
left-turns genre every time.

- There's songs that
shouldn't be on mix tapes.

And I don't know what all of them are.

- I'm gonna drop some
Dr. Demento' in here,

in the middle of like two love songs.

- I think a lot of them
were like Dr. Demento songs.

I just hated to hear
any Dr. Demento songs.

- I used to always put
on monkey-wrench songs

that I knew that they probably would hate.

Like I don't know very many girls

who liked Captain Beefheart, for example.

But I love Captain Beefheart.

And it was like almost,

it was like a dare.

Like, I dare you to like this.

- Me and one of my old friends,

we'd always make mix tapes

and we always said there was
always one song that killed it.

(laughs)

Whether it be It would
always be on the B-side,

but there would be always one song

that just didn't fit
and it just stuck out.

And I would always try to
avoid putting that song on.

But for some reason,

it would always make its
way onto every mix tape.

- Whenever they would say,
"I don't like that song.

Why'd you put that on there?"

I'd be like you're crazy.

And, you know, next thing we
knew we'd get into some sort

of ridiculous argument where
I was definitely wrong.

- What I like to do though
is based on the person

that I make the mix tape
for, kind of feel out

where their edge might be
and try to take them there.

- I always usually had
a Pulp song on there,

and usually Radiohead.

Probably The Ronettes is
usually on the majority

of my mixes.

The Cramps.

I usually like to throw in
some Albinoni to throw people

for a loop, depending on the
mood of what I'm going for.

Not for a dance mix per se,
but maybe a moodier mix.

Oh, Portishead for sure
would 100% go on there,

without any hesitation.

Serge Gainsbourg, 100%.

And maybe some like Astrid Gilberto.

Yeah.

And then maybe Ella Fitzgerald.

Sorry, I'm just making my mix.

(laughs)

I could keep going but I'll stop.

- Your gold tape.

- My gold tape.

- Here we go.

All right, so,

this is our recording side.

I believe this is Side A.

- [Hazel] How do you tell?

- Normally it says A and B on it.

These do not.

(laughing)

- Nice.

- I think it's usually when
all the tape is on one side.

That's the, when it's all on the left,

I think that's I'm going
to find out momentarily,

if it plays and doesn't stop immediately.

(upbeat music)

(indistinct)

(upbeat rock music)

Timing is essential.

- Yeah.

So you just let it play
all the way through?

- Yes.

Believe it or not, we have to
sit through the whole song.

(Hazel laughing)

That's how you used to make mix tapes.

- It became of the utmost
importance to get all

of those 45s onto this
cassette, where the outro

of the song is not cut off by
the intro of the next song,

there's not too much
blank space between songs.

- I remember rewinding
and erasing and rewinding

and hitting record again many times.

I mean, it would take hours.

- Then you'd become a real pro.

And when you're working
in real time, analog,

your mistakes are in real time.

So you play it back and you go, oh no,

I screwed up that song.

I have to re-do the last 23 minutes

of the A-side of this cassette.

And I've been sitting in
this position in front

of the tape deck for like
nine hours making it.

Ahhhh.

- But I think that's
what made it so special

and so meaningful, when
you gave a mix tape

or received a mix tape, especially if it

had homemade artwork on it.

- It's your personality.

Like the mix is a part
of you, and so the art,

they should reflect each other.

- I did like a nail polish
and white out art on it.

- I would cut out stuff from magazines.

Usually the title of the
mix tape would be a quote

from one of the songs
off the mix tape and that

would be like another
thing for them to discover

which song it was.

- I would go out and take
photos of you know trees

and water but make it
intentionally blurry,

so then I would have all
these photos that I'm sure,

like when I went to the Rite
Aid to get these developed

they were like oh sir this whole
stack of photos is garbage,

it's just blurry
water-colory looking stuff.

I'm like yes, that's exactly
what I was going for.

- I used to draw like these,
they're like graffiti letters.

But it wasn't like actual graf.

It was like block letters but
I made them in like bubbles.

And then I would draw like little things

inside like hearts or balloons,
or stars, or whatever.

- I would do multi-colored
magic marker things,

and arrows to this and
that, and asterisks,

and you flip over to the back
cover and duh duh duh duh.

I mean, it was just so,

(laughs)

- I couldn't draw to save my life.

I couldn't.

Just writing the names of the songs

in a way that was legible.

Being a lefty and
dragging your hand across

that glossy sheet was a fucking nightmare.

It would just blur everything out.

There's a whole nother documentary

on being a fucking lefthander,

but being a left-hander
and trying to write shit

on mix tapes.

(sighing)

- Can you imagine the whole process

I just showed you from tape to tape?

- I don't even wanna think about that.

- How about vinyl to tape,

like getting it between the songs?

- That would be torture.

That's just like a whole
nother thing of anxiety

for like one mix tape.

- [Robert] But if somebody gave you one,

knowing that's what they went
through to make it for you?

- Yeah.

- [Robert] Would you
appreciate it more now?

- Yeah.

(upbeat music)

- The very first mix tape
that I was ever exposed

to was a mix tape that my father made that

was called "Mood Pieces."

- [Robert] What was the
inspiration behind this one?

- Just some music that
you could kind of sit back

and get transported away.

To get you in a certain mood, if you will.

And I selected those with
that thought in mind.

- [Robert] What's our favorite
track on this Mood Pieces?

How long since you even
looked or heard at it?

- We actually listened
to a little piece of it

just a little while ago,
but it's been years.

"Big Log" always jumps out.

Marianne Faithfull, "Intrigue."

"Times Square."

Some of the special ones.

- What it really brought to light,

especially because my
father wasn't a musician,

for a non-musician
making a mix tape I guess

is about as close as
a non-musician can get

to using sound to construct
something very personal.

- My musical experience
is me and Ian MacKaye,

we've been best friends since we were 12.

We're now in our 50s.

We're still best friends.

We talk every week and our
conversation often goes to music.

- It was incredibly
laborious to find cool music

back in those days.

So what a lot of us would do,

or what I would do is I would go over

to a friend's house who
had tons of seven-inches,

and he would just,

he or she would just play me seven-inches

and I would record the ones that I liked.

Oh, I like that, let's tape that one.

- I cannot overemphasize
how important this language

was and is between Ian and myself.

And how the cassette, the
mix tape was important

in maintaining and
prolonging that conversation.

- Me and my sister used
to do like mix tape club

where it's literally
fuckin', it's like charades,

you put your hands in the
box, you pull out a subject.

It's like mixes about fucking
breakups or The Yellow Mix.

Where everything has to be yellow.

The Crazy Mix.

I pulled crazy for The Crazy Mix

and it's all either
people that went crazy.

Like Nirvana, he shot himself in the head.

Or fucking Skip Spence.

He went fucking nuts.

Or like songs about being crazy,

like Black Sabbath, "Paranoid."

Daniel Johnston, he went fucking nuts.

"The Story of an Artist",

that's a kill yourself fucking song.

You see the ones with the dots

indicate the people that actually

lost their fucking minds too.

- I wasn't an idea guy or a theme guy.

That was masturbation as
far as I was concerned.

Now you're just jerking off.

But, just make a fucking solid mix tape.

Because I think you get
locked into the theme more

than you get locked into the
flow, for me at that point.

So it was all about the
flow and about a journey,

and about sort of making sense
from one song to the next,

and making sure that you sort of

carried people through something.

So you were never jolted.

I never wanted a song to
come on and be like, oh.

I wanted you to be prepared
for the journey as you went.

- I had access to porno
records when I was younger,

when they put porno on vinyl.

That was always fun to
just throw into a mix tape

or at the very end of the tape, you know.

In my mind, I'd give
a mix tape to somebody

and then the second side and
they'd kind of fall asleep,

it'd be at night, and all
the sudden like, porno.

- It just at some point
it turned into a place

for me where,

yeah, where I could communicate.

Where I could communicate with people.

- The most important thing
about the mix tape, to me,

was my cousin's introduction.

He started talking to me
about bands and he said,

"You know what, I'm going
to make you some tapes."

You know, these mix tapes
were just like the Bible

for me as a teenager.

- I don't wanna go so far as

to say the mix tape saved my life,

but when you're 13 and
everything is that real

and that important, and
that histrionic, yeah.

The fucking mix tape saved my life.

- My high school didn't have,

it wasn't Nobody had good taste.

Nobody.

Only me.

I was the only person that had good taste

in my entire high school.

- When I went to Purchase,

senior, Purchase is
where I went to college,

in '87, my freshman year,
at some point I was,

I don't remember being
given it, it just showed up.

This cassette showed up and
I remember putting it in

and it blowing my fucking mind.

Because it was Siouxsie and the Banshees

and Killing Joke and China
Crisis and Gene Loves Jezebel.

I'm pretty sure there
was probably "Revenge"

from Ministry was on there.

So whoever made it for
me or whoever made it

and left it accidentally in my
dorm, was a cutter for sure.

So that introduced me

to like a whole other fuckin' darker edge.

Because I'm a Phil Collins
fan and his darkness is

♪ One more night ♪

It's not actually cutting.

It's just sort of wishing
you had the strength to cut,

for your pain.

Instead you just write
sappy love songs about it.

Whereas Siouxsie is just like, ahhhhh.

♪ Now she's in purple,
now she's a turtle ♪

♪ Disintegrating ♪

- I was as into making mix tapes
as I was into making music.

It was the same feeling for me.

It was this feeling of creativity

and I made them all the time for everyone.

Yeah, for friends.

I can't even say girlfriends.

But for girls I wanted
to be my girlfriends.

(upbeat music)

- To be honest, it was always about girls.

- I'm going to make you a mix tape,

and it's how I'm going to tell you, hey,

I really like you but
I'm too shy to tell you.

Which is, shyness is, believe it or not,

always been a problem for me.

- I made her a mix tape with
like "The Power of Love"

and fuckin' Peter Cetera.

Oh shit, I even put Robert Palmer's

"I Didn't Mean to Turn You On" on there.

That's how fuckin'
ridiculously ballsy this was.

- I knew there were certain
songs that I had to hit

because I was trying to let her know

just how much I loved her.

- When I first started
working in record stores,

I remember the consistency of being asked

if we had Art of Noise, "Moments in Love."

And I had never heard this
track when I was first asked

for it, but I noticed that the people

that were asking for it were generally men

and it was generally before
they were going on a date.

And once I heard this song,
I got it, immediately.

- The mix tape to woo the female, for me,

was this wonderful night of
living in this illusionary world

of this is going to work out
great because of this cassette.

This is how I can talk to this woman.

I'll let the Platters talk for me

I'll let Richard Berry and Johnny Otis.

- There's certain songs like
Al Green, "Simply Beautiful."

For years, just goes on a mix.

I love that fuckin' song.

And it's not a typical Al Green song.

it's just vulnerable
and sweet and delicate

and that shit plays.

There are certain tracks
that it's like dude,

if you don't like that track,

I don't know if we can continue on.

- I always felt like it was important

to have a really good first side closer

and then a second side opener.

Like it makes you want
to flip the tape over.

Something where it's like an ellipsis.

Like a dot dot dot.

You have to like, oh wait, what's next?

I have to flip this over and
see where he's going with this.

How does he really feel about me?

Check out side two to find out.

- Oh, no!
- Wait.

- We hit the end of Side A.

- What do we-
- We completely miscalculated.

We failed.

(Robert laughing)

- But like, do we have to erase the song?

- Okay, we can either erase the last song,

so that it's clear.

Because that's about two,
three minutes of white noise.

Or we find a shorter song.

Or we leave it as is, but it's
gonna be really distracting.

- We can't leave it like that.

I think...

- [Robert] I think we should try "Help!",

only because it's a shorter
song and we might be able

to get that in there.

- So do we just go back and do-

- [Robert] Yes.

We have to manually go
back and erase over it.

- Oh wow.

(light acoustic guitar music)

- What I was hoping for was
Oh my god, you understand me,

I'm falling all over myself.

You are the one male I've
ever met who gets me.

And it was always like, oh
yeah, I played that tape

with my friends in the car,
and we lost it under the seat,

and there's that really cool song

where there's that really nice beat.

And you're like-

- I'm incredibly selfish.

I don't listen to other
people's mix tapes.

(both laughing)

I mean, I'd read the song list.

And I'd write a thank you note.

- Maybe my first mix tape

was from a boyfriend who was always trying

to get me like certain
music that he liked,

and I'd always be like, that sucks.

I hate that.

- And so you must really enjoy the fact

that you're making it.

This is quality time you're
spending with this person.

She's not in the room.

So it's a perfect relationship.

Nothing can go wrong because
it's completely fictitious.

- The mix is almost like this litmus test,

like, are we going to jibe?

You know what I mean?

Like, getting a mix from somebody,

hearing what they like to listen to,

being exposed to new music,
learning about that person.

And also judging them harshly too.

- It wasn't necessarily coming
from the most selfless place.

It was coming from more of like a,

maybe I thought I was cool
and I wanted them to be cool.

So it wasn't necessarily
coming from an expression

of adoration.

It was actually more coming
from a place of narcissism,

if I'm honest.

- To be real with you, I
didn't even make mix tapes

for other people.

I made mix tapes for myself.

Fuck them.

I don't, like, fuck other people.

I'm like, I bought all
these fucking songs,

I'm making this shit for myself.

- (sighing) I've made so
many break-up cassettes.

(all laughing)

And like put them on
and just like sat there

and howled at the moon.

- I really believe that one of the ways

that I achieved closure
was making this mix tape.

There's some My Bloody Valentine,

there's some Verve, there's some Slowdive.

Actually there's a lot of
Slowdive on this cassette.

- Why?

Because there's something
beautiful about that misery.

- I do have many experiences

where a tape made me
feel even more connected

with people for sure, with my boyfriends,

and my friends.

Especially I say boyfriends
because if they're gonna write,

if they're gonna send you
a love letter in a tape,

you're gonna feel it by
the songs they're putting

on that tape.

- I had moved to
California on my own at 19,

just deer in the headlights,
like just going for it.

And I was lonely.

Like I didn't know anybody.

So my life for probably like two years,

before I really started
getting like a lot of friends,

was work, music.

Those mix tapes really helped
me out and made me feel good.

I remember I bought a car out here

and I could put it in the car

and I just had a good
feeling of like someone, him,

being there.

And him taking the time
and the love to do that.

(upbeat music)

- After you would get that mix,

you would check it on a bunch of things

and the number one thing you
would check it on is the car.

And when you go into the car,

you would have 20 fucking notes,

'cause everything would slightly change.

You'd be like, oh the
bass is way too loud.

Or like oh this thing doesn't
go from left to right,

it goes from right to left.

We've got to change that.

And you would go back with 1000 notes.

- I loved listening to music in the car.

I do that to this day.

I check mixes in the car.

I would put them in order
that I wanted, I would listen

to them in the car, I would
drive around aimlessly,

I would get lost.

I love to drive around and get lost.

- And I had a really good Blaupunkt.

And I had a really good stereo.

I'm in my car right now.

Driving down the 405.

Coming home from Knotts Berry Farm

is what I'm doing right now.

- So apparently the best place

to test a mix tape is in a car,

so we found a car that I can play this in.

So we're gonna do that.

- [Robert] Where did we find it?

On Facebook?

- Yeah, we sent out a message on Facebook.

Like, does anybody have a car
that can play a cassette tape?

So we found somebody.

- We got one.
- We got one.

- We're going for it.
- Let's go.

- [Man] All right, so
let's do the car test.

- Where do I even-

- [Man] Do you remember
what the car test is?

- Like, playing it.
- Yeah.

- So, where?

- [Man] Okay, you need to start the car.

(laughing)

This is lesson one.

This is how you play it in a car.

- Okay, wait.

Okay, okay.
- We're in park, right?

- I don't want to start rolling.

- [Man] Okay, it's in park, right?

Turn off the radio.

- Where?

How?

- [Man] Just press, I
guess the volume button.

Press it.

Okay, well, we'll start there.

- Do I press-
- Yeah, there yo go.

Put the volume up a little bit.

Now put the tape in where
it says logic control deck,

see that?

But you have to put,

see how it's kind of
shaped like a cassette?

- This way?
- Yeah.

Go the other way.
- Flip it around.

- [Man] That's how we used to do it.

- I feel like I'm doing something wrong.

- No, this is correct.
- Okay.

- [Man] Now turn up the volume.

Can you shut that door?

- Oh, it's playing.

It's playing.

- [Man] There you go, there's your mix.

(upbeat rock music)

- Okay, so now we just listen to it?

(upbeat music)

- I remember working my
job as a telemarketer

playing my shit for
people in the parking lot.

And I remember Keith Murray
just came out, so I'd be,

hey you know about that new Keith Murray?

And I'd be playing that.

And the crazy thing is
that was me as a kid.

That was me as a kid.

And now that's my job.

- As a young musician, I
recall making mix tapes

to express sort of the feeling of

where you wanted a band to go,

what the musical styling would be.

Music creates community,

and the types of music create community,

and the stories that music tells

moves forward through us all.

- We weren't trained musicians.

We were all self-taught.

So that's exactly how
we would communicate.

It's the Coltrane area.

Or it's the Blues Explosion part.

We would explain our
songs by describing that

using other artists to
describe, or other songs

to describe them.

- When The Muffs were on tour,

everybody would have a little
box with cassettes tapes

in it, and we would take
turns playing stuff.

- I love mix tapes so
much that there's a song

on the first Morningwood
record called "Jetsetter",

which the full title is
"Jetsetter Music Letter",

♪ This is a Jetsetter Music Letter ♪

Which was the name

of a mix tape that I
made for my best friend,

and I liked the title
and the intention so much

that I used it in a song
that was on our record.

- When we did the first Left Rights,

it really was like a mix tape.

I mean, when we had so
many tracks and wanted it

to flow a certain way, we literally,

I mean, it looked like
a storyboard conference

or like a meeting, or like
when someone in Homeland

is trying to connect the dots
between who the killer is,

solve a murder or something.

We put up index cards of
every song on a huge board,

plus songs that never made it,

and we just kept moving them around

to see what the flow was.

- In fact, I had an argument
with our drummer Roy,

about which song should go
first on our last album.

He really wanted the song "Weird
Boy Next Door" to be first,

and I really wanted the song
"Paint by Numbers" to be first.

And he won.

♪ He's a boy next door, what a boy ♪

♪ Do nothing what he's living for ♪

♪ He's a boy next door, what a boy ♪

♪ Nasty, keep away from him ♪

I realized he was right.

You know, there's a right
way and a wrong way.

(laughs)

It's so sad.

- I think a mix tape is all about,

specifically it's about
using these different songs

to create a dynamic.

There's usually the quiet
part, then it gets rockin',

and you know then it drifts out.

That's the way I think of
albums and even more than that,

it's kind of the way I
think of my, you know,

my career as it were.

Because a mix tape is
kind of a sloppy thing

but it's a really elegant thing,

that to make a good one takes thought.

- One of the reasons why I felt

that I could make a
successful career for myself

as a DJ is because of my
history making mixes for people.

- I think it's a good
interaction to perform live,

especially to improvise.

It's a good challenge
to feel the audience.

To be able to communicate with them

in the most natural way I know
how, which is in the music.

- I saw DJing as a way to
almost make a live mix tape.

- That was exactly the same feeling

as making a good mix tape,

because you're sort of,

you're taking an audience on a journey.

You know, you'd start with an idea

and then you take people on a journey

and bring them down and
bring them back up again.

- I brought my records,

and basically I just went
through my record collection

and found all of my favorite records.

It's records that were all my jams,

stuff that I liked to party to.

Put them in a crate,
put them in BPM order,

and took them to the party.

And started playing.

- It really just came
from the heart though.

It wasn't about beat matching,
which again I beat match now,

but it was more coming from
my heart and telling a story.

And I really don't know
where I'm gonna start.

I kind of have to take a
look at what's happening

on the dance floor.

And that kind of dictates
where I wanna start.

- As much as I want it to be about me

and the songs I pick and
how great I am at it,

I really do try to look at the crowd

and just check their
body language, see who,

how they're talking.

- There's so many people
that have been like,

yo, you remember

when you did your set
and you played that song?

That was my first time hearing it.

Now it's like one of my favorite songs.

Or I played it at my wedding.

Or It's me and my wife's song
now or something like that.

- That's pretty cool
where you can play a song

and it translates and, you
know, it's the feelings

that the people get from the music.

The screaming and the
hollering and people jumping

and just clapping, and
the smiles that you get

from people playing these different songs.

It really keeps it going.

It keeps me going.

- The great Dierdre O'Donoghue,
the sadly passed away DJ,

taught me everything I know
about making a radio show.

And I would go sit with her
and watch her in the '80s

as she would do her Snap show on KCRW,

where I do my radio show now.

And so I'm listening,
she's playing Philip Glass,

which is kind of out there
for an evening listen,

and then she'd play Prince.

I go, okay, that's eclectic.

The pairing.

Why'd you do that?

She goes, you're bringing in a marlin.

You take some line.

Philip Glass, they've got
to work for a few minutes.

This is a seven-minute
cyclical avant piece.

Seven and a half minutes
they have to sit and listen.

No singing.

So you're taking a line.

You're dragging the marlin to the boat.

They've been very good.

They didn't turn off the radio,
so you give them some line.

Good boy.

Give 'em a Prince song.

Give 'em a "Little Red Corvette."

Like, "Oh I love that song."

Give them some line, they can rest.

Then you give them something that's new.

It's the new Go-Between single.

Okay, a little bit of tautness
on the line cause it's new.

Poppy, but it's new.

And then you make them work some more.

She said, "By the time the show is over,

they're in your boat.

You've got them."

(upbeat music)

- So now here we are in present day,

people are making mix
tapes that are on CDs

and it's basically just like your mix.

It's basically just you playing music

like you were playing
at a club, but the art

of people making that specific, you know,

special combination of stuff
for a mix tape is gone,

along with the actual physical
form of a cassette is gone.

- Sometimes to capture the moment

of hanging out with someone,

a Polaroid picture of
it would be a mix tape.

And this is me hanging
out at Ian's bedroom

at Discord house in November
of 1997 and I'm just,

this is "At Ian's."

And it's just me making mix tapes.

And so here's rare Bad Brains.

There's the cassette of the
second ever Bad Brains show,

of which I have the master.

The vocalist gave it to me many years ago.

"Chump Rock."

A girl I was going out with
hated my taste in music.

But she had a stereo so I'd
make mix tapes at her place and,

oh, look at that, "Shaft",
"Kung Fu Fighting",

"Rock Your Baby", "Multi",

the song about the one-armed drummer,

I got that from Chuck Dukowski.

This is some of Chuck
Dukowski's single collection.

♪ Liar, liar, pants on fire ♪

"You're Gonna Miss Me."

This is killer.

"Kick Out the Jams," MC 5.

This would be 1982, this tape.

And so I called it
"Chump Rock" because she

thought I was a chump
for liking these songs.

And there's how I used to sign my name

in the Black Flag days.

Wesley Willis, that's Jello Biafra

making me rare Wesley Willis tapes.

That's Jello's writing, of
unreleased Wesley Willis.

I used to live in a tool
shed, in Black Flag,

and this was music I used
to listen to in my shed.

"Birthday Party."

Ravel doing "Bolero."

Die Haut, the German band.

True West, some LA band.

Richard Berry, who wrote "Louie Louie."

The Bad Brains, Lydia Lunch
and her album "Queen of Siam."

My old punk rock band, UK
USA Number two it's a copy,

it's on new TDK media.

Ian MacKaye and I were driving
once in his car years ago

and he has a cassette in his tape deck.

And I'm recognizing it.

I go, wait a minute, I know this cassette.

He goes, "You made it in 1979,

and it's just been sitting
around ever since."

And I said, well let me copy it.

And so he kept the
original, I kept the copy.

So this is one of the first
mix tapes we ever made.

As I get older and older, my affection

for the cassette and the mix
tape ritual putting analog

to analog, you know, going LP
or single to magnetic tape,

it's a beautiful thing and if
we lose it'll be a real loss.

People will really lose a
joyful, wonderful thing.

Because when you listen to
digital, you are not listening

to music, you are listening
to a bunch of numbers.

- It was a lot of work making
a mix tape, I'm not gonna lie.

It was hours of excruciating
pain and patience.

Like it was a gift, you know what I mean?

When you got a mix tape
from somebody you knew

it was they took their time,

because there was really no way around it.

- A mix tape should be
a tape, a cassette tape.

I mean if you want to
make an 8-track tape,

that would be cool too.

But it has to be a tape.

- This cassette, called
"Long Island Iced Tea",

and it was made by an old
friend of mine, DJ Espiritu.

His name was Joe Espiritu.

Unfortunately he committed
suicide a few years ago,

and I had totally forgotten
that he made me this tape.

He titled it "Long Island Iced Tea"

because he told me a story he
called himself Joey Two-Drinks

because it only took two
drinks for him to get wasted.

Except the night that he
had a Long Island Iced Tea,

and it only took him
one drink to get wasted.

So.

I had totally forgotten about this.

Definitely something that
you cannot, I don't know,

just a burned CD would not carry the same,

have the same gravity emotionally to it.

- CDs still had a lot
of love in them I think.

There's definitely a generation
of kids from the late,

mid-'90s to the mid-2000s who grew up

with the same mentality as, you know,

I spent a lot of time
making this CD for you,

my sweet please be my
sweetheart type of thing.

- Once the CDs started
happening, it was a lot better.

It was a lot better.

Cassettes are annoying.

I don't care who thinks they're cool.

They're dumb.

Nah, they're, see, ah, cassettes.

God.

Such a bummer.

- This is tedious.

(Trey laughs)

♪ I can't see where I am going ♪

We still got a,

a ways.

- How do you think it sounds?
- Terrible.

Awful.

Like-

- Can you lower it all the way down

and let me ask you again?

- How do you think it sounds?

- Terrible.

Like, why?

- [Man] All right, pull it up

so we don't miss the transition.

(upbeat rock music)

- There we go.

(laughing)

- Good transition.
- There you go.

The power of the pause button.

(laughing)

- So is that like a quality transition or-

- [Robert] Yes.

It's pretty good.

- My Dad approves.

- And I preferred actually making mix CDs

because I had much more
control over what you could do.

And it was easier to make
the flow happen, to control,

like you never had a song
cut off halfway through.

- The downside is sometimes
you want to fucking get out

of that song earlier than is allowed,

and it's kind of a pain in the ass to do

unless you have the right equipment.

Like, it took me forever to figure out

that I could end a song early on iTunes,

so I'd just have to play that bitch out.

Like, damn I wish that would
have ended two minutes ago

but I really want that song
on there, so here it is.

- My daughter has
literally never owned a CD.

In middle school, I guess,
she'd have an iPod in the car,

and a song would come on
that I would like and I'd,

oh what's that song?

And she wouldn't have any
idea what the, whose song

or anything, because what
she would do with her friends

is trade what were iPods, like 40 gigs?

20 gigs, 40 gigs?

Just trade an iPod with someone.

Just a whole musical library and world.

- For me, the most
important thing is the song.

You know, it's not the
thing that carries the song.

- I love change.

I welcome change.

I think that people need change to grow.

I also think that, you
know, everything always too

comes full circle.

So, as you can see, LPs are coming back

and now cassettes are starting
to come back around again.

So I think the mix tape is ever-evolving.

- I think that cassettes
are back pretty strong.

The first one that I put
out with a label was 2009,

and I had no idea that they
were on the rise since then.

There's a bunch of
labels, and then even some

of the mainstream labels have
put out cassette versions.

- Nothing's really changed
at the end of the day.

At the end of the day, people
you trust mention something

or play you something that
you think you would like.

The process of how that happens
just kind of has a new face.

But at the end of the
day, it's always people

who have like minds sharing music.

- I feel that anytime a human
being gets to be creative

is an important thing.

And I understand there's
nostalgia and I understand

that people want to hold onto
what they've had in the past,

but the past is the past and
we need to embrace new stuff.

Making a mix tape is
a creative expression.

But I also think making a
playlist is a creative expression.

But I also think, you know,
looking somebody in the eye

and telling them I love
you is as significant

as handing them a mix tape.

(upbeat music)

- The last great mix tape
that I made was for a girl

that I started dating named Jennifer.

After we went out on a couple of dates

and I'm like okay, now it's time.

I must make the greatest
mix tape of all mix tapes.

- I knew already that I
liked him very very much,

but I was not able to express that to him,

so he was very unsure.

But he gave me the tape and I loved it.

And it said "Songs for My Friend Jenn",

and I was disheartened.

Terribly disheartened.

Because I didn't want him to be my friend.

So I went for a drive with my
friend Mike G and we listened

to the tape, over and over and over again.

We broke apart every word of every song,

trying to decide if he was
giving me a secret message

that actually said I
love you and I want you

to have my babies.

- So I think there are two contenders

for what could be the song
that locked it for me.

There is, one of them is a cover.

It's Belly, featuring Tanya Donnelly,

covering a song from The Jungle
Book called "Trust in Me."

Which I think was sort of like a message

like I'm a good guy, I'm not
a bad guy, you can trust me.

And then there's also a song

by a British band called Revolver

called "Painting Pictures."

- Have you heard that song?

It's by Revolver, "Painting Pictures."

It is beautiful, something
like you're painting pictures

in my mind again.

And I just fantasized that I was,

that he would sit around
and think about me

and that he would have the same feelings

for me that I had for him.

So, but it was the Belly song.

It was Belly for sure.

- We dated for three
years, got married in 1998

and we'll celebrate our
19th wedding anniversary

in May of this year.

So it worked.

- I did have a preconceived
notion when I heard your music.

It was the first time in my life I ever

thought I'm old and I don't understand.

- But when did you first hear it?

- Right before we were
going on tour with you.

- We met on tour.

- Yeah, we met on tour and so they were

like you're going to open

for this band Mindless Self Indulgence.

I'm like let me go to
MySpace and check this out.

And I went and heard "Bitches."

♪ Bitches love me cause
they know that I can rock ♪

♪ Bitches love me cause
they know that I can rhyme ♪

I don't understand music anymore.

I guess I'm officially old.

- At 22.
- 22.

And I was like there we go.

- I'm an old lady.

- And then I saw him
perform and I was like,

well, first I met him and I was like,

this guy is exceptionally
nice and outgoing.

And then I was like, and
he's an incredible performer.

And then we hooked up in a stairwell.

And it was-
- Yeah.

- I remember when I started
working in record stores,

I thought, I'm gonna meet
my wife in a record store.

One day I am going to just turn around

and this beautiful girl is
going to be standing there

and she's going to be holding
all of my favorite records,

and that's how our
romance is going to begin.

And 21 years of working in record stores,

I can tell you that moment never arrived.

But one thing that hit
me later on was realizing

that the only way that a
relationship would work

between myself and someone
that loved music just

as much as I did, or do,

is if we liked exactly the same thing.

And if I found myself in a relationship

with someone that loved
black metal or jazz

or other things that I don't listen to,

it wouldn't be a successful
relationship at all.

So I'm very happy that I
found a partner in Marcie,

someone who is willing to go
along for the ride with me,

and in the process
fallen in music with me.

- You grow up your whole life thinking

that your partner has to
like the exact same things

as you and, when you're a teenager,

you're like he's doesn't like that band,

I'm going to break up with him.

- Idiot.

- But then when you
get older I appreciate,

I don't hate anything he likes,

but it's not what my number one choice

would be to listen to.

So-

- Our kid is gonna be fucked up.

- Yeah, they are gonna be an issue.

- Because they're gonna be
listening to old school hip hop,

new wave, upbeat '60s.
- Upbeat '60s.

- Classical music.
- Classical.

- A lot of Pink Floyd.
- Pink Floyd.

- Enya.
- Enya.

- Big Eyna.

- So it's gonna be-

I don't know what that artist is gonna be-

- Come back to us in like
20-some odd years and talk

to our future child, yeah.

- When we got the box out
and we're looking through,

and Jen pulls a couple
tapes out and she's like,

oh wow our friend made some
really nice mix tapes for me.

And I'm like, hey Jen, I think he wanted

to be more than friends with you.

She's like, "Really?"

I'm like, oh, you think?

Just look at the track listing.

You look at all the artwork.

To be fair, to be honest-
- That's a lot of work.

- He put a little more effort
into the artwork than I did.

I mean, maybe my simple
plan worked out better

but that's, you know-
- Quality over quantity.

- A for effort.

- Seriously, that's a lot of work.

- Yeah.

- [Jenn] But, I mean it made me smile.

- I incorrectly thought that perhaps James

and I went on a date to
the Metropolitan Museum

and made mixes and
traded and walked around.

But maybe I did that with somebody else.

- That might have been someone else.

- But it was a great experience.

If only I could remember
who was on the other end

of that mix.

But just know-
- I gotta go.

- It didn't last.
- It didn't?

- Yeah.
- Oh thank God.

- Just so you know.

So that's one I can think
of, incorrectly, in my mind.

Well, I'm just going to put
your face over that memory.

- Yeah, just put my face on that memory.

It'll just be little cutout pictures.

- We have a lot of great
memories at the Museum of Nat,

at the Metropolitan Museum.

It's where we got engaged.

Because of our great
moments like making mixes

and walking around.

(both laughing)

- But he is now married with two kids

and I guarantee you he made
for his wife mix tapes.

for sure.

I'm sure if you asked her,
she would have a mix tape

like this and be like, oh this
is the clincher, right here.

- I maybe about five or six years ago,

I just kind of had a craving to as closely

as we possibly could

from a long distance
recreate the experience

of me sitting with you in the stereo room

and you playing songs for
me, that meant a lot to you.

So I asked you to make me
this mix tape of deep cuts

from different artists that you liked.

And not only did you do that for me,

you also included these
handwritten notes about

what the songs mean to you.

- Some of them were obscure,

like the song "Jay" by Grace Slick.

I never hear that on the radio.

I don't know if I've ever
heard that on the radio,

but it was always special to us.

"Emperor of Wyoming",
Neil Young, which I think

is just a brilliant instrumental piece.

Always evokes memories of
a different time and place.

And I wanted Chris to
hear things that kind

of moved his old man as a younger man.

- The most interesting and
weird part of being a dad

is I started off with like my duty

to give my son a musical education,

and now he gives it right back to me,

which is weird, but great.

Remember the first mix I made you?

- Mm-hmm.

- Yeah, because it's right
here in front of you.

Handy!

- I was in kindergarten
when he gave that to me.

So that was pre-9/11.

So I was like five, like four.

It was right before Clay
was born, my little brother.

So it's "Barracuda", "Better
Living Through Chemistry",

some Queens of the Stone
Age, "Highway Star",

Deep Purple, "We Will Rock
You", "We Are the Champions",

they like have to go together,
you know "Lust for Life",

Iggy Pop, the best, then "Fox
on the Run", "Killy Kill",

which is Rocket from the Crypt

like one of the weirdest bands.

Then there's side B, "Have a
Drink on Me", "Crazy On You",

"I'll Stick Around",
first Foo Fighters album,

the best Foo Fighters
album, "King of the Road",

which introduced me to my
favorite band ever, Fu Manchu.

- I did not know what kind of can of worms

I was opening giving him Fu Manchu.

Good God.

- The stoner rock.

- The one song that I
remember listening to

and really being moved by was "Oh Well."

And I remember we had a
conversation about that

and you said,

this is the sound of Peter
Green losing his mind.

And that is exactly what it is.

It's a song that recreates
a psychotic break.

And every time I hear it,
I hear your voice kind of

talking me through it.

And yeah it's an amazing song.

- I was pleased to hear
HAIM do a version of it.

- Yeah.

- I love "Oh Well", I think
it's an incredible song.

And I thought they rocked with it also.

- Wow.

But they leave the ambient part out,

the ambient part is the best part.

- Chris prefers the ambient part.

- Yes.

- Which is a fine piece of music also.

- Yeah, because I mean it's just charging

through this rocking blues riff,

and then all of a sudden
it just turns into mist.

And that's the most powerful
part of the song for me.

- It's a great contrast.

The electric explosion,
and then segue into that-

- That somber instrumental.

Yeah.

- I mean, this mix tape
just made me who I was.

I don't really care for
curating playlists anymore.

The last one I did is for my girlfriend,

that's pretty much a
version two of this thing.

I don't think I've shown you
before, but it's pretty rad.

I should give it to you.

- Well, I mean, you don't have to share

the mix tape you gave to
your girlfriend with me.

- I mean, it's a good mix tape though!

(both laugh)

- I remember really looking
forward to those moments

where we could be in the room together,

listening to music me asking
you to put on certain songs,

you putting on certain songs
that meant a lot to you,

that now mean a lot to me.

But yeah, I mean, sharing music with you

is by far the most cherished
memory that I have.

- My little bro Keenan,
who is married to Leslie,

drummer of The Red Aunts, Leslie Ishino,

he now makes crazy
bizarre old comic books.

He's got this one called "THE HUMANS",

about an ape biker gang, and
he made a mix tape for it.

He invited a bunch of bands
to do stuff just inspired

by the comic, and each issue

at the back had a link
to download the songs.

And then they put it out
hardform on cassette.

Smelly Tongues is one
of Lesley's other bands.

She is a prolific musician whose played

in other bands like
Alaska and now Red Aunts.

So Smelly Tongues is one of hers.

They still crank stuff out on cassette,

which is awesomely retro and weird.

But yeah, it's always been a family thing.

- When you open the box, you're like wow.

It's really fun to remember,

to reminisce about those
times and what they meant,

and what you felt when you made them,

or when you were given them
and when you listened to them.

I mean, that's what it's all about.

It's about inspiring emotion.

It's about making somebody feel.

- I previewed some of them this morning,

and it just takes me back
to that spot of being 14

and awkward and having
fun with this friend,

being careless, listening to mix tapes

and not having a care in the world.

- My cousin just sent
me shout out, thank you,

Danny sent me all of these
old tapes that he and I made.

And it brought me to
a time that, you know,

we were just like, we were
just some country-ass kids

in a fuckin' town outside of
Detroit, like, with nothing.

And it's like 20 years later,

and I don't see half those kids anymore

and I'm out here in LA.

And like, it's like, damn,

came a long way from government housing.

- I'm not a sentimental person.

I don't want to be young,

I don't want to live in
the past, but it's so great

to be able to put on
a 30-year-old cassette

and have it work.

You put on a certain song,
you go back to that last year

in high school, all the
sudden you are there.

You start sweating, your breath dries up.

You put on the song

that you remember a certain
relationship you had from,

and all the sudden you get
moisture around the eyes.

It's nice to take that trip now and then.

- A movie is an hour and a half,

a short is 15 minutes, but
a song can be two minutes

or five minutes,

but it's still these little

compact hyper-dense emotional moments.

That moment that you
have when you hear a song

and it makes you fuckin',
your skin suddenly feels

like the place you were at when you,

that's a fucking physical reaction.

That's actually happening.

That's not magic.

- I think there's a good
argument that there's

nothing more iconic musically

that crosses more sort
of genres and cultures

or whatever than mix tapes.

- [Robert] How did she react to it?

- She thought it was really cool.

She was like, what are all these bands?

I don't know anything.

She was a total like Black Sabbath

and Rob Zombie kinda girl.

And she didn't know half of these tracks.

And I'm like, how do you
think you know what music is?

- You don't know "Nebula?"

You don't know nothing!

- Seriously.

(all laughing)

- [Man] This is peasant music.

- That's why I don't go outside
and meet people anymore.

They're lesser.

(laughing)

- Oh, I've made a monster.

Jesus Christ.

- Okay, so,

all day the guys have been actually

helping me make a tape for you.

Wait, you've been what have
you been doing all day?

- I've been making a mix tape for you.

- Okay.

- So here it is.

- Aw.

It's gold.

- It's gold.

So, we have all the songs
that are on the mix tape.

Then we just like went through each song

and decided what would go where.

So we just like numbered each.

We knew at the very beginning

that the two Beatles songs were gonna be

at the end of each side.

- Oh, I like that.

It's thematic.

- So that was already set in place,

and we kind of just worked

around that, to figure out what came when.

- Is there like a
loud-quiet-loud thing, or just a-

- It was just,

I mean, I guess.
- Kinda.

- Kinda?

All right, let's take a listen.

(upbeat rock music)

- That's a good one.

(vocalizing)

- [Man] It sounds decent on this.

It's good.

- Dad.

- Sorry.

♪ Something ♪

It's a good song.

Really good.

♪ Filled up my heart with nothing ♪

♪ Someone told me not to cry ♪

Do you remember playing this song?

- Playing it?

Yes.

- At the talent show.
- Yeah.

Our family learned this song

and we played it at a school
talent show when I was like-

- Seven.
- Yeah.

August, what did August?

- He played guitar.
- And you played drums.

- And I sang.

- Uncle Justin played bass.

- Yeah.
- That was good.

- Yeah.

(upbeat rock music)
(vocalizing)

- A mix tape is

how you get laid.

Right?

That's the correct answer?

- Yeah, kinda.

♪ Hold your mistake up ♪

♪ Before they ♪

- I wonder if people will
ever get nostalgic about CDs,

and make a documentary
about mix-CDs, CD-R mixes,

stuff like that.

Is that the sequel?

That's the sequel to this.

Maybe.
- Let's finish this one first.

- You're not feeling it so much.

- Digital Love?
- Yeah, Digital Love?

Yeah, you never know.

- [Man] Give it another decade.

(upbeat rock music)

- I used to go to museums

and listen to mixes all the time,

and I loved walking and
listening to mixes in New York.

- Walking in New York.

- Walking in New York and listening

to your putting your headphones
in and walking super fast.

- So, you put headphones in.

I had a little cassette.

- What, you'd walk like this?

- I was like a guy from the '60s,

but with industrial
music on, walking around.

- What a dork.

- A lot of it is just me.

Rollins Band.

Just when you go live,

there's just tons of examples of,

we would tape every night.

And so you do that for enough decades

and you end up being the steward
of, it's heavy stuff too.

The analog media is literally heavy.

In the Black Flag days, I'd
have all these cassettes.

I'd have to find someone I
knew who I could trust and go,

can I put your stuff, my
stuff in your mom's guest room

for like a year?

These would live in boxes in milk crates

for like 12 months at a time.

A smaller version.

The Black Flag era collection,

which would be the Birthday party stuff.

About half.

But it would live in boxes

at my one normal friend's mom's place,

and between tours I would
go over to her place and go,

hi, I'm your son's friend.

Can I go in that room?

She's like, "Yeah.

Weirdo."

(upbeat electronic music)