All language subtitles for Women.Who.Rock.S01E03.WEBRip.x264-ION10

Previously on
Women Who Rock...

The Wilson Sisters of Heart--

they were women who

carved the way
for a lot of us.

At the time,
there weren't very many

bands with girls in.

Joni Mitchell was my queen.

Her voice soared through.

Women had started

asserting their power
through music.

I wanted to be a musician
who happened to be a girl,

not girl musician.

There was suddenly, like,
an underground punk scene,

and it was Blondie, and Patti.

We thought Patti
was the punk priestess,

and Debbie,
she was the punk princess.

I got more power
during my solo career

'cause it was just me.

MTV was
a massive culture shift.

It changed everything.

[amplifier feedback]

[electric guitar strum]

Growing up,
when I discovered

these incredible women
making rock music,

I mean, that's, like--
that's the dream.

People would be like, "Whoa,

look at that little gal
with that big guitar,"

like a novelty.

[Benatar] I wanted
to break the boys' club.

I wanted to break down
that bullshit.

[Khan] I said,
"Let me tell you something.

I'm going to be a star
with or without you."

[Jett] Growing up, I thought,

"There's gotta be other girls

that wanna play rock 'n' roll.

I can't be the only one."

[Twain] There's something
very liberating

about being able to take on
a rock 'n' roll attitude

and not have to abandon your
femininity at the same time.

[Crow] There were lots of
obstacles along the way for me,

but I knew the only person
that could drive my ship

that I felt I could trust
was me.

[Staples] I'm not a diva.

I love people.
I'm a people person.

I'm just Mavis.

Just Mavis.

Yep.

♪♪♪

Mm-hmm.
I still have those curtains.

Well, I really like her.

She had a lot of sass,
so I really like her.

[chuckles]

[Pat Benetar's
"Heartbreaker" plays]

♪♪♪

Love me some Pat.

["Heartbreaker" continues]

♪ Your love
is like a tidal wave ♪

♪ Spinning over my head

I know every word
to that song, yeah.

Badass. [laughs]

♪ You're the right kind
of sinner ♪

♪ To release my inner fantasy

I love the tone of voices.

There's a clarity there,

but at the same time,
she's got that rasp.

[Benatar holding note]

-[lip syncs]
- ♪ You're a heartbreaker

♪ Dream maker

♪ Love taker

♪ Don't you mess around
with me ♪

♪ You're a heartbreaker

♪ Dream maker

♪ Love taker
Don't you mess around ♪

♪ No, no, no

[Benatar] People say,
"Which ones

will you never
get tired of playing?"

That's definitely
number one.

Never tired of it.

Pat Benatar
could really put it across.

She sang rockin' songs,
and yet she was

this petite, cool-looking,

take-no-prisoners
kind of artist.

Those songs, still,
when you hear them,

they are as fresh and as real
as they were then.

They transcend.

From '80 to '84,
I was in a cover band.

I was the keyboard player,

and then
our front singer quit,

and I got catapulted
to the leader of the band,

and it took me a while
to get adjusted

to being the front person,

and at that time,

the music that was out
was Pat Benatar,

and that was what
I cut my teeth on

as far as performing
for audiences.

And you stepped into
the rock chick persona

when you sang those songs.

To sing Pat Benatar,
you had to own it.

You know,
you had to step into it.

She was a standout,

and, you know,
she's had quite a story.

[Benatar]
It just used to irritate me

that so early in life,

you had already been given

a little, like,
thing that you had to be

because you were small,

or a girl, or whatever,
that kind of thing.

So I'm sure that had
a lot to do with it.

So how did you react?

Um, usually punching.
[laughs]

[Benatar] My family
were working-class people.

We were just kind of
scraping by all the time.

My mother had to work as well,

and I saw women wallpapering,

mowing the lawn,

fixing the plumbing,

you know,
doing every single thing.

My mother's paycheck
counted in our house.

The biggest shock of all

was when I got out
in the real world

and somebody was telling me
I couldn't do something

because I was a girl,

and I was like,
"What are you talking about?"

You know what I mean?

Like, what are we
talking about here?

That's not my experience.

In the '70s,

I left New York

and I was working in a bank.

I was planning on
going to school,

but I joined a band.
I just joined a band,

and, you know,
it was, like, a lounge band.

We were, you know,
singing at the Holiday Inn

at the airport
in Richmond, Virginia.

You know, I just thought that,
"This isn't enough."

Like, if you're going
to do this,

you need to really
go back to New York.

And I just decided one day
to go back to New York

and try singing professionally,
so I went, um...

I went to this place
called Catch a Rising Star.

It's a comedy club
in New York,

and I went for an audition,

and I just started
singing there,

and then, I don't know,

it just started to happen
after that.

I sang "Rock-a-bye Your Baby
with a Dixie Melody,"

and I was so scared
that when I finished,

I sang the last notes, you know,
with my eyes closed like that,

and people were screaming,
and I was like,

you know, one eye, like,

"What's happening here?"
you know.

And the guy who owned the club,

he, like,
swung the door open,

and he said, "Come here,"
then he said,

"How come I don't know
who you are?"

I go, "'Cause I just got here,"

and that was
the beginning of everything.

The minute that I met Neil,

it was just insanity.
[laughs]

The minute he played one note,
I knew that was it.

I knew that was exactly
what I was hearing in my head.

And we just went to work,
you know.

We were players first,

before we were ever together
as lovers,

and, uh, 40 years married now.

It was Halloween,
and I dressed up

from this ridiculous movie
called Cat-Women of the Moon.

So I put, like, on
this leotard and these tights

and these little short boots,
so we went,

"Let's all go back up to Catch
and perform in our costumes."

I'm like, "Okay."

I did the same songs
that I had been doing

for, you know,
six, seven months.

Something changed.

People went nuts.
Like, crazy nuts.

♪♪♪

It did something for them,

but it also
did something for me.

I was playing a part--

this other alter ego.

It felt like armor.

It made me feel like,

you know, that.

My way, my terms.

I'm showing you my body
because I want to.

And it worked
for a really long time,

until they wanted it like that,

and then when they wanted it
like that,

I was like, "Mm-mm.

My thing, not yours."

That was it.
Done. No more.

I threw many
record company executives

out of our house--

literally out the door--
for being assholes.

I knew that I had something
they wanted really badly,

and if they were going
to get it,

they were going
to have to do it--

at least halfway my way.

I wanted to break
the boys' club.

I did.

I wanted to break down
that bullshit.

♪♪♪

We had no idea
what was about to happen

because of MTV.

It was a tremendous
culture shift.

Up until that point,

people
could see you in concert,

and they could see you
on Don Kirshner's Rock Concert,

and Midnight Special.

That was it.

I was from a really small town,

and I would go
to Blightmore Drugs,

and all of us kids,
on Saturdays,

would sit there
by this big magazine rack,

and look at all these magazines,

like Rolling Stoneand Creem

and Teen Beatand 16,

and what we thought of
as rock 'n' roll

were in those pictures.

We didn't have MTV.

We didn't have cable.

We didn't have tabloids.

There was none of that,

so it was very imagined

by these incredible portrayals
of who they were in magazines.

♪♪♪

[Benatar] We became
the second video

ever played on MTV.

I'm the first female
to ever be on MTV,

and Neil was
the first guitar player

to ever play on MTV.

The first day that it was on,
we all sat glued to the TV.

We're sitting on the,
you know, horrible bedspread

that's in that crappy motel
that we're in,

you know what I mean?

Watching the TV,
because they had cable,

And after 10 days

of MTV being open
and on the air,

couldn't go anywhere.

We were in Virginia Beach,

and the record
was just flying up the charts

and going crazy.

We were pulling up to a club,

and I'm looking out the window,

and I see cops everywhere,
barricades up.

People are running all over,
screaming, yelling.

I'm thinking, "Oh, my God,

there must have been
a terrible accident.

What happened?"

Well, they oversold the club
by a thousand people,

and they were throwing things
through the windows of the club,

and people were going crazy

because they wouldn't
let them go in.

It was insane.

MTV changed everything.

It was nonstop.

The American living room,
all day, all night.

I learned how to play
the guitar from MTV.

I used to watch
the guitar players.

I used to watch
where they put their fingers,

and I was obsessed with MTV.

I used to run home from school

and just sit there for hours
and watch these videos.

In the big MTV era,

when you had people
like Cyndi Lauper and Madonna,

they came out of
this punk tradition

that was very New York-centric,

that was very loud and brash.

[interviewer] How do you feel
about being chosen

as one of Ms.magazine's
Women of the Year?

Um, I'm flattered.
I really am.

Um, I thought it was
a slumber party,

so I wore some pajamas.

♪ All the men
come in these places ♪

♪ And the men are all the same

♪ You don't look
at their faces ♪

♪ And you don't ask their name

♪ I'm your private dancer

♪ A dancer for money

♪ I'll do
what you want me to do ♪

♪ I'm your private dancer

♪ A dancer for money

♪ And any old music will do

♪ I'm your private dancer

♪ Dancer for money...

Tina Turner
becomes a full-on rock star,

and she does it
by creating a new sound,

but also through this look
that she adopts,

which is the archetypal look
of the mid-'80s

for women in rock.

So she has the wig

that is just her
reclaiming everything

that all those '60s rock dudes
took from her.

It's more Rod Stewart
than Rod Stewart ever could be.

This is a chic designer look.

She's wearing leather,

but it's classy leather,
you know?

It's like North Beach leather.

The spiked heels.

This is, like, high fashion.

We look at it now,

and it just looks
excessive to us,

but at the time,
this was money.

This was power.

This was everything
rock could buy.

They were women
really asserting themselves

in big ways.

Really distinct personas,

and distinct fashion,

and signature outfits,

and hairdos,

and, you know, crucifixes.

♪♪♪

Madonna was a video star
as much as a music star.

She was creating fantasies.

She was projecting an eroticism
that worked on a screen,

and that's what people needed
in the '80s.

[interviewer] Now,
with the single "Like a Virgin,"

how did this song come about
and why?

Well, I was laying in my bed
one night, and...

Well, I mean, it takes one
to know one, doesn't it?

- Um...
- [laughs]

[laughs] Probably.

People started talking
about her,

and writing about her,

and the word "empowered"
arrives.

She's making herself
into a sexual object,

so that's okay.

It was kind of
an interesting moment,

and it definitely changed things
from there on.

Everybody knew in the business

that Madonna
was calling the shots.

She was in control
of her career.

Madonna projected
just absolute self-possession.

She was ultra-feminine.

She had that alpha attitude
associated with men,

and she was not going to be
anybody's good girl

or anybody's victim.

Nobody was quite as bold

in the way
that Madonna was bold.

Berklee had a summer session
that anyone could go to.

At that point,
it was a jazz school.

There were, like, three people
who were into punk and new wave,

so we basically formed a band.

And so that was the first band
that I was ever in.

It was called
The Young Snakes.

The songs we wrote
were just,

you know, atonal,
angular, kind of ridiculous.

I was feeling kind of hemmed in
by, like,

having to keep it angular
and weird all the time,

so the idea of starting a band
that was more song-based

became really appealing,

and that was 'Til Tuesday.

At that point, you know,

the holy grail
was, like, to get signed.

We had a really arresting
'80s new wave look,

and the record company was like,

"We're getting on
this new wave train!"

But they didn't understand it.

You know, they were sort of
used to a sexy '70s look.

So I would get, like,
a lot of,

I'm not going to say
"advice"--

"criticism" is more the word--

and then we'd be subjected to

doofuses coming down
to the studio

and making comments.

They don't know
what they're talking about.

I just could not understand

other people
putting their two cents in

who were not either musicians,

or producers, or...

music fans, even,

And to have that, like,

"the madmen are running
the asylum" feeling

all the time,

or just that, like,

you're being told "no"

by people who don't know
what they're fucking doing,

and who were trying to act

like their jobs
are some mystical secret,

was just very frustrating.

I got a lot of pushback.

You know, they just did
not expect me to say "no"

to anything.

That thing of, like,

not wanting to be seen
as difficult to work with,

is really, you know,
like, really powerful.

So much of our lives,
we don't really get listened to

and acknowledged for
our thoughts and our feelings,

and here were all these people,

and they want to hear you
get real with them,

and the business itself
gets between you and the fans.

The music business
and the marketing people

come in the way and say,
"Oh, wait, stop.

We can't have her out there
representing our label,"

or whatever.
"That won't sell."

♪♪♪

When MTV started,

I felt almost like
there were bands

that were playing to MTV.

They were playing up,
like, more of the visuals.

And it wasn't just about,
like, the live performance.

Back in the day,

you know, the idea of videos
was they're movies.

They're three-minute movies.

So you tell a story.

You have a narrative story.

♪ Hush, hush

♪ Keep it down now

♪ Voices carry

♪♪♪

♪ Hush, hush

♪ Keep it down now

♪ Voices carry

♪ Ah, ah

I would not have
cast that guy.

Like, when they came up
with that guy,

I was like, "What?

Are you out of your mind?"

Like, he was very beefy.

What happened?

Practice run late?

You know,
this little hobby of yours

has gone too far.

Why can't you for once
do something for me?

Like what?

♪ Oh!

♪ He wants me

♪ But only part of the time

You know, that video's
kind of a perfect example

of stuff I did not
have control over.

♪ He wants me

Classic standard things, like,

if you're a band
that's fronted by a woman,

the record cover
is a picture of the woman.

There's no interesting
art piece painting.

It's kind of understood,
like, well,

the whole point
of having a woman in the band

is, like, you know,
that you can look at her.

When we got signed,
you're in a room.

There are a lot of men
in suits

looking at you,

sort of sizing you up in a way,

and it was just this feeling of,

"Is there something expected

that we have to be glamorous,

or look a certain way?

Or is there an expectation

that any sexuality is something
that we'll be selling?"

You're talking about
a time in the music industry,

and this is still
kind of how it is--

it's basically run by men.

You know, the heads
of the record labels are men.

The radio programmers are men.

The marketing heads are men.

The agents are men.

The promoters are men.

So when I was coming up,

I was constantly working

against what people

that were making
the decisions for my career

perceived me to be,

and how they could make
that lucrative.

When you first sign,
they try everything, literally,

because they know they can.

It never stopped.

It was just a continual thing.

It was like,
"Can't you wear this?"

Or, "You know, I'd like it
if you put this makeup on."

Why are you talking to me
about this?

You're not talking to him
about this.

Like, why don't you
mind your business?

There was a lot of
sexualization of women

in the '80s,
and sort of sexploitation.

It seemed like women
were expected to, you know,

pump up the volume,
pump up the breasts,

pump up the lips, you know,
pump up the hair.

It was fun, but I noticed

that we started out
being not really sexualized,

and then as the '80s crept on,
and MTV,

we started wearing
much more sexy outfits.

It was, like,
such a turnaround

from where we'd started,

because, suddenly,

everything that mattered
was about the image,

and if somebody was overweight,

or had imperfect skin,

or you didn't have enough hair,

that all had to be fixed,
you know.

So for Heart, me and Ann,

we'd always felt like

we could be accepted
for exactly who we are,

and how we look,
and how we feel,

but MTV took that away from us
in a lot of ways.

But it's really
what they don't tell you

that comes back
to bite you later.

Record companies and MTV,

they couldn't come up
with content fast enough,

so it became super spendy.

The record companies
make the bands responsible

for a really large portion
of their promotion budget.

You were just digging
a hole for yourself

that was $400,000 deeper
than the day before.

And these video
shoots would take one day,

cost $400,000 to $800,000,

which was sometimes more
than you'd spend on your album,

and then you'd find out
that you were responsible.

It was recoupable
against your royalties.

That's one of the ways
that MTV really just

put the screws to the artists,

But then, you know,
if your video did get played,

then it was great promotion.

To be on MTV was everything.

It was everything,
and it meant, again,

that you made it
if you were able to get on MTV.

When I first started playing,

my dad was in Santana,

and so I knew all the songs.

My dad played every single day
in the home,

practicing the vinyl,

and we hardly turned on
the television at all,

And then he would have
jam sessions

with other percussionists.

He would have his band
rehearse in the living room.

I never took a drum lesson.

I never practiced
a day in my life, ever.

My practicing
was watching him play,

and he noticed that
I loved playing percussion.

My parents never said
because you're a young girl,

or you're a young lady,

that you're not supposed
to play percussion.

That was never
mentioned in my home.

I loved playing
with different people.

I loved being a part of a team,

a part of a group
as a percussionist,

whether it be Marvin Gaye,

Diana Ross,

or Lionel Richie,

you know, all the different
people I've performed with.

At one point,

I was playing
with Lionel Richie,

and Prince was coming out
to see the shows,

and he just said,
"Aren't you tired of,

you know,
playing behind other artists?"

Prince would take on
these women protégés.

They all had great beauty,
great style,

but they were also
incredible musicians,

incredible songwriters.

Someone like Susanna Hoffs,

who had a vocal tone
that no one else could imitate.

The week that I heard
"When Doves Cry"

was the same week

that I got word

that Prince had a song
for The Bangles,

and would I go to Sunset Sound,
the studio, and pick it up?

I still have the very cassette
that I got.

We all hovered around
a cassette player

to play the song.

It was "Manic Monday".

You know, it felt like
I slipped my foot

into the glass slipper.

["Manic Monday" plays]

♪ I was kissing Valentino

♪ By a crystal-blue
Italian stream ♪

♪♪♪

♪ But I can't be late

♪ So then I guess
I just won't get paid ♪

He wrote
so beautifully for women.

You know, I mean,
he just got it.

♪ These are the days...

And he loved
to give these songs away.

He loved doing this.

It was a generous act.

♪ It's just another
manic Monday ♪

♪ Oh, whoa

♪ I wish it were Sunday

♪ Oh, whoa

♪ That's my fun day

♪ Oh, whoa

♪ My I-don't-have-to-run day

♪ Oh, whoa

♪ It's just another
manic Monday ♪

♪ Oh, whoa

♪ I wish it were Sunday

♪ Oh, whoa

♪ Because that's my fun day

♪ It's just another
manic Monday ♪

Prince was able to realize

that these women deserved
to be taken seriously.

Who is a better percussionist
than Sheila E?

I mean, there really isn't one.

I always wanted to be
a solo artist,

so he said, "Well,
let's just make it happen."

I was like, "Okay."

Well, the next thing I know,
I had a record deal.

He's like, "Let's just go
in the studio

and record the record."

And it was done in a week.

"Glamorous Life,"

I knew it was a hit
the first time

I heard the song
on the radio.

["Glamorous Life" plays]

I was driving down
Sunset Boulevard in a Mercedes

'cause I'm living
"the glamorous life".

The top was down.

-Bam!
-[screeching wheels, collision]

A car comes dashing down,
and he hits me.

I get out of the car,
and I'm shaking.

I'm like, "Oh, my God."

I mean, he really smashed
the whole front end of the car.

Cars are stopped,

and no one knows
what's happening,

and I was like,
"Are you okay?"

He's like,
"Yeah. Are you okay?"

and I was like, "Yeah,"

and then I realized
for one second,

I could hear "Glamorous Life"
playing on the radio.

I'm like,
"Do you know this is my song?

This is it! Oh, my God!

This is me, my first time
ever hearing my song,

'Glamorous Life,' ah!"

I'm like,
"Okay, now I've made it.

I get to hear
my song on the radio."

♪ She wants to lead
a glamorous life ♪

♪ She don't need a man's touch

♪ She wants to lead
a glamorous life ♪

♪ Without love, it ain't much

And I was like,

"You have to show me
as who I am first."

That is important.

I am a percussion player

who happens
to sing a little bit,

and can dance,
and loves what I do,

but if I just come out
as a singer,

then I'm like everyone else,

and that's not who I am.

And that was important
to share with the people,

but really, to make sure

that the record company
understood.

♪ Without love, it ain't much

♪♪♪

My thing was

I'm going to have
a strong vision

of what I want to do
as a solo artist,

I don't want to go in
to any label,

like, not knowing who I am,

I know who I am,

and I want that to be known
from the get-go.

This is what
I want to look like,

these are the songs
I'm going to be writing,

this is who I'm going
to be working with.

Being a Black artist,

it's, like,
there are certain boxes

that immediately, you know,
people want to put you in.

I love rock music.
Like I say,

I love jazz music.

I love punk music,

and so I wanted
to just bring all of it in.

I didn't want to be
like anyone else,

and I was very specific
about that

with the label when I signed.

♪ Friends will let you down

♪ Friends won't be around

♪ When you need them most

♪ Where are your friends?

- ♪ Yeah, yeah
- When I did "Friends,"

I thought it would be great
to have Rakim do the verse.

He's one of
my favorite lyricists, rappers,

just one of the best
to ever do it.

I pitched the concept to MCA.

At first, they didn't get it.

There were
no collaborations, really.

There were a couple,

but they hadn't
really done well.

They didn't see
how it would work

because he's Rakim.
"That's hip hop.

Like, how is it
going to work?

You're an R&B, pop singer.

Like, we don't get it."

♪ Friends are hard to find

♪ Friends, yours and mine

♪ I'm talking about
your friends ♪

♪ You used to kiss me
Tell me you missed me ♪

♪ But now
you try to glaze me ♪

♪ Play me, and dis me

♪ I'm wide awake

♪ Ready to break
so we'd argue ♪

♪ What happened to the kisses

♪ And "Ra, how are you?"

It really set the tone

for what we still hear
in music today

with rap song collaborations.

It was a top 10
on multiple charts.

That really
kind of opened the door

for other artists and labels

to know that this, it works.

Jody Watley, as a writer,
I always thought was amazing,

you know what I mean?
Like, it was soul

in a whole different way.

From disco, like, Donna Summer,
and, like, it was--

it was, like,
a very smooth transition,

and to me,
it was because it all--

it all came from this one
source, you know what I mean?

It was all this one thing.
It was all so Black.

I loved it.

In the late '80s,

Black music
was just coming into its own,

and hip-hop was just becoming
what it was going to be.

That scene doesn't get
the credit that it deserves

for changing
pop culture forever.

MC Lyte,

Monie Love,

Salt-N-Pepa,

Queen Latifah,

they were really pioneering,

and they busted
their way through.

You have Sha-Rock.

You have Roxanne Shante.

You have
a lot of 14-year-olds

in, like, the late '70s
in the Bronx,

like, innovating, like Sha-Rock,
just spitting rhymes.

You began to see

the impact that women
were starting to make

on the world of rap,

and the world of pop.

You realize, "Oh, my God.

M.C. Lyte's
playing Carnegie Hall."

You started to see
these kind of,

like, different characters,

and these
different personalities,

and it wasn't, you know,
they weren't all ladylike.

♪♪♪

♪ Push it

♪ Push it good

♪ Push it

♪ Push it real good

Salt-N-Pepa, when
they came out with "Push It,"

they basically pushed
hip-hop to pop radio.

And they had the dance moves,

and they were cute,

and the videos looked cool.

Salt-N-Pepa,
it was so in-your-face,

and they looked like girls

that I saw every day
in my neighborhood.

You felt them.

Visually, they were so fly.

They had amazing haircuts,
and they were colorful,

and they were wearing
men's jackets.

It was women talking about

stuff you didn't hear
women talking about.

"Oh, push it!"
We were like, "Push what?"

We're like, "Are they
saying this? This is amazing."

♪ Can't you hear the music
pumping hard ♪

♪ Like I wish you would

♪ Now push it

♪♪♪

♪ Push it good

Ha, ha, ha, yeah!

♪ Push it real good!

There's a little bit of them
still in me,

in all--
in all parts of my life.

I think there was something
very empowering

about their approach to music
and to lyricism.

Their approach is,
"We're ladies.

We're out to get it,"

and I was like,

"I want to take
this much friggin' control

over my general sexual being."

That's what I got from them,

a sense of command.

So it was this, like,

wonderful mesh of, like,

obviously really creative
and really good,

but then really empowering,

and interesting,

and fresh, and new.

Music was really evolving
at that time,

especially for women.

You felt something changing.

You felt something moving.

It wasn't only crooning
and crying,

and sadness and romance.

♪♪♪

In the mid-to-late '80s,

hip-hop is bubbling under
and taking over,

redefining music,

but outside of
that crucial movement,

we really have
these new archetypes,

who emanate authenticity

and a real sense
of independence.

I always had
a lot of admiration

for Annie Lennox.

She was style.

She was just this voice

that could do anything,
sing anything.

She's a strong representative
of a very liberated thinker,

a very creative, bold artist.

♪♪♪

♪ It seems years
since you held the baby... ♪

Sinead O'Connor

is an incredibly
ruthlessly truthful artist

in revealing
her innermost emotional world

and laying it
all out on the line.

She rocked my world
when she first came out.

♪ Maybe I was mean

♪ But I really don't think so

♪ You asked if I'm scared

♪ And I...

♪ Said so

As young women,

still trying to figure out
what our identity was,

Sinead O'Connor
was, like, profound to us.

She just sort of seemed

completely unlike
any other woman.

These are the young women

who are the spiritual
and the real children

of second-wave feminists,

and this is the first generation

that really grows up
with feminism from childhood on.

A lot of us were taking
women's studies classes,

or, you know, reading

feminist literature
and stuff like that,

or, for me, seeing my mom be,
I guess, a second-wave feminist,

but it didn't always speak
to our personal lives,

or to our daily lives.

The '90s were just,
like, I don't know.

If you were at all feminist,

or had learned about feminism
and knew anything about it,

you were just kind of adrift,
is what I felt like.

Like, there was
nothing going on.

I mean, Timemagazine
declared feminism dead.

It was very lonely.

This is the era of Anita Hill,
let's not forget.

I was very uncomfortable,
and told him so.

However,

to my regret,

in the following few weeks,

he continued to ask me out
on several occasions.

This is the era

of watching a woman
tell her truth

and be shot down

on the biggest stage
of our governmental system,

and there's a direct connection
between this moment

where young women are saying,

"I have to fight for
and demand my own authority,

and I'm going to start
with my own story."

This leads us to artists

who can express themselves
so deeply in their music--

artists like
the bands of Riot Grrrl.

♪♪♪

Riot Grrrl was like

a loose-knit
feminist punk movement.

It was really about
a moment in the '90s

where girls were trying
to support each other,

and support each other's work.

One night,
I was walking around downtown,

and I heard this woman
singing and yelling,

so I walked up
and peeked in the door,

and it was Kathleen Hanna.

She was just screaming
these lyrics.

I was totally afraid of her.

She had this big vein
sticking out of her neck.

I just really saw this person
letting it all hang out.

She wasn't trying
to sit pretty,

or be behaved, or anything,

and I thought,
"Wow, that's so cool."

You can't really get away
from the fact that, like,

Kathleen Hanna rules.

The first time
I heard Bikini Kill records,

my ears were shredded,
and I was blown away.

It was like,
"Whoa. You can do this?

You can put all this out here?"

You can be, like,
absolutely defiant,

demented, transgressive,
confrontational.

The Riot Grrrls were
unfollowing the rules, you know.

They were going for
the raw energy of rock itself,

and instead of anything
pretentious whatsoever.

Kathleen was saying,

"Hey, enough of
this love rock stuff.

What about the girls?

What if we don't want
to be sensitive?

What if we want to, like,
scream about what's happening?"

Bikini Kill, you know,

was saying something important,

like the next level up,
for sure,

from The Runaways.

You know, they were taking it
in a political direction,

which was, by this time,
I think, necessary.

A lot of those kind of
cool girl bands

were coming up,

and it was really great
to see it,

because that was

the next logical step for women

to be taking in music
after the '80s.

It was like,
"Hey, it's about time."

You know, the '80s
postponed it somehow, you know?

Kathleen Hanna
and Allison Wolfe

gave young girls
a sense of place,

and a sense
that they belonged in punk.

If anybody is fucking
with you at this show,

then you need to come
up front and sit on the stage.

It was really important
when Kathleen

started announcing girls
to the front.

It prioritized women

in a scene where we weren't
used to being prioritized.

If you're going to mosh,

why don't you just mosh
in the back

so that the girls can see
people playing instruments

and get inspired?

So I just would invite girls
to the front

and say, "Why don't you guys
come up to the front

and watch for once

instead of holding your
boyfriend's fucking coats

in the back?"

And it worked.

Hit it.

♪♪♪

This ain't no disco.

♪♪♪

It ain't no country club
either.

This is L.A.

♪ "All I want to do

♪ Is have a little fun
before I die" ♪

♪ Says the man next to me

♪ Out of nowhere

♪♪♪

Sheryl Crow is the shit.
So good.

♪ He says his name is William

She's the epitome
of, like, a badass.

That is, like, the word
that comes to me

when I think of Sheryl Crow.

She is the reason
why I do what I do.

Never mind what you feel like.

She's lying to you.

Everything you hear her saying,

you're like, "I believe you."

♪♪♪

♪ They ain't nothing
like Billy and me ♪

♪ 'Cause all I want to do
is have some fun ♪

♪ Until the sun comes up
over Santa Monica Boulevard ♪

Sheryl Crow had some of

the most classic blues
Americana rock songs,

in league with, like,
Tom Petty.

She has some
Tom Petty-level songs.

Does that sound weird?

That sounds
a little fucked up.

She's almost as good--

She's almost as good as man.

Um...

No, Sheryl Crow is
unmistakable.

♪♪♪

Growing up and, like,
hearing her songs on the radio

was so important to me.

She took poetic license
in her verses

to talk about things,

to go into territory that,
like, Bob Dylan would.

I needed that.

I needed to see those things.

I look at power
as being freedom.

You know, for me,
power wasn't dominance.

It was the permission to do
what I knew I could do,

and I had to do
a lot of things wrong

in order to figure out

how to make that happen
for myself.

I toured as a back-up singer
with Michael Jackson,

or for other artists.

You know, the woman
stood in the back

and did sexy moves

and wore a tight black dress.

You know, that was
just never who I was.

Knowing that
you have so much talent,

and standing behind someone else
is pretty--

That's a strong person,
you know,

and being, like, "One day,

you motherfuckers
don't even know."

Sorry for my language,
but it's the truth.

It's like, "One day."

I wanted to be taken seriously,
like the artists

that I had absolutely
loved and adored--

women like Emmylou Harris,

and Rickie Lee Jones,

and certainly Bonnie Raitt,

all these incredible women
who made music that

paved the way for me
to do what I was doing.

Stevie Nicks illustrated

what I felt like
I could be someday.

Her songs were very steeped
in not just rock 'n' roll,

but, like,
Everly Brothers harmonies,

and just great songwriting.

I really saw myself in that.

Cut to, you know,
25 years later,

meeting Stevie Nicks
at a Grammys party,

and she said,
"We should get together.

I love what you do.

I would love to have you
come in and produce me."

It's often been said

that we should never
meet our heroes

for fear of disappointment.

I'm proud to say
I have met my hero,

and she's more wonderful
than I could ever have imagined.

She's an inspiration,
a hero, a friend,

an open, beautiful person.

[applause]

You know,
all the awards in the world

can't measure up
to meeting somebody

that really brought you
to where you are.

For them to ask for you
to be a part of their story,

one of the greatest artists
of all time,

was such a monumental moment
in my career,

and it stays with me always.

♪ And the days go by

♪ Whoa

♪ Doing nothing about them

♪ How much time

♪ Whoa

♪ Will I have to spend

Tuesday Night Music Club
sessions,

a bunch of guys
hanging out in the studio.

We all jammed together.

I was the only girl,
very misfit-y,

kind of "us against the world"
attitude about making music.

When the record took off,

I had a ton of press
that turned sour,

claiming that the men
on my record wrote my record.

Sheryl Crow was not given
her due in her first record

as the truly crucial force
she was and is.

She is just a crucial figure

in the rise of equality

for women
in mainstream popular music.

[Crow] There were
a lot of things

that I just felt, like,
were so unfair,

and that I look at now,
and think

it's just
the product of sexism.

What do we do with a woman
who looks really strong?

"Well, we can't have that."

After selling
nine million copies,

the pressure
of following that up,

it was daunting, going in
and making a second record,

but I knew
I could make that record.

I walked into a studio.

My producer,
who I was counting on,

left after 24 hours,

and out rolls Trina Shoemaker
from underneath the board,

who is a female engineer,

and the next day,
we started working.

It felt natural.

It felt right.

It felt badass.

It felt "eff you."

You know,
it felt all of those things,

but mostly empowering,

to be able to close the door,

and to dig in
to making a record with allies,

and equals, and women.

It feels like a proclamation of,

"I did this,

and you guys didn't believe
in a woman producing,

but here it is,

and, you know,
do what you will with it."

In a lot of ways,
it became my first album.

It became my real...

expression of who I was.

This is a song about a jerk.

I hexed him.

Now he's losing his hair.

♪♪♪

♪ The sky was made
of amethyst ♪

♪ And all the stars
were just like little fish ♪

In the '90s,
it was really easy

to find male bands
that we were attached to,

but we had to look
a little harder

for women
who sounded like those bands,

and what those bands
sounded like to us

was angry, and confident,

and I think we were looking

for women who scared people
and didn't care.

To us, finding Courtney Love
was like finding a universe.

She was our example

of, like,
a woman who intimidated people,

and so we wanted
to be intimidating,

and we wanted to act like that.

♪ You never want it again

♪ Go on, take everything

♪ Take everything

♪ I want you to

♪ Go on, take everything...

Courtney Love
was the first woman

we'd ever seen talk about
things like

sexual assault and...

-...abortion.
-Abortion.

And she, like, had
such a specific level of,

like, middle finger to the air,

"I don't give a fuck
about anything."

I remember seeing
the "Miss World" video

and kind of being scared of it.

Courtney shows
her true mastery of songcraft,

and her ability
to write incredible lyrics

about what it feels like

to want
so desperately

to fit in

with those ideals

that have oppressed women
for so many years,

but at the same time,
to want to destroy them.

A lot of
what the '90s was about

was this huge question of

how do we live as women

within some kind of idea
of the feminine,

but not have it wreck us?

It's such a core problem
of the feminine experience.

Few artists have expressed it

with such open eyes
as Courtney Love has.

Courtney Love told me one time,
just, like, "Just fuck it."

Like, "If something bothers you,
just fuck it.

Like, just get up there
and just kick ass,"

and I loved that
because, first of all,

I wanted to show
all the boys in pop rock

that I could whup their asses.

The landscape of the industry,

when I came out,

was girls just being vulnerable,

being honest,

showing true emotion,

and being unapologetic about it,

which I love, so it
was perfect timing for me

because I needed
to do the same thing.

Women like Courtney Love

and the band Hole.

You had Alanis Morissette,

Fiona Apple,

Tori Amos,

PJ Harvey,

really channeling
this righteous feminist rage

of the era.

And then you had Liz Phair
speaking truth

in these really funny

but extremely honest
confessional songs.

What made their rage
so distinctive was

the simultaneous
vulnerability of it all.

Women have been given
this powerful role

to scream and yell

during times of transition

or grief or pain
for communities.

It's not just something
that happens

in rituals
around the world.

It's something that we see
in popular music,

whether it's Janis Joplin,

Yoko Ono screaming,

Nina Simone.

All of these artists

are also playing that role

as a way for us to process
how we feel.

Alanis Morissette
was an absolute game changer,

who ends up epitomizing

angry women in rock
in the mid-'90s

with Jagged Little Pill.

The first time I remember
hearing Alanis Morissette

was actually
seeing her music video

for "You Oughta Know"
on MuchMusic,

and when they debuted it,
we flipped out,

like, flipped out.

Her frustration and anger,

poof, just, like,
exploded our mind.

She seemed so pissed off,

and it was perfect.

I'd repressed a lot
of my anger for a long time.

It wasn't something that women,

or people in general in society,

were encouraged to do.

If something was bothering me,
I'd hold it in,

and the only way
that I knew how to express it

was through my journal,

and then eventually
through music.

So I think because
I'd repressed it for so long,

there was this urgency
when it first came out.

I was obsessed
with her vulnerability

at the same time,

just, like, kicking doors down,

and just being fearless,

and her lyrics were gnarly.

I'd never heard
lyrics like that before.

♪ Did you forget about me
Mr. Duplicity? ♪

♪ I hate to bug you
in the middle of dinner ♪

♪ It was a slap in the face

♪ How quickly I was replaced

♪ And are you thinking of me

♪ When you fuck her?

♪ 'Cause the love
that you gave... ♪

Alanis Morissette gave us
true commitment.

She committed to her music.

You can hear it.

♪ And every time
you speak her name ♪

♪ Does she know
how you told me ♪

♪ You'd hold me until you died

♪ Until you died

♪ But you're still alive

♪ And I'm here to remind you

♪ Of the mess you left
when you went away ♪

♪ It's not fair to deny me

♪ Of the cross I bear
that you gave to me ♪

♪ You, you, you oughta know

Women in the '90s

and the music
that they were making

finally fully spoke

to the spectrum of women.

Like, they were finally
allowed to sort of be seen,

and the '90s
was really where

we saw women
at the top of the charts,

at the top of sales figures,

getting radio play.

I had never seen
a front woman.

Honestly,
I think Gwen Stefani

is the first front woman
I ever saw.

I didn't know that, like,

girls could be

that level of, like,
in your face,

because I just didn't
see it a lot growing up.

Like, I remember seeing,
like, Nirvana, and being like,

"Oh, you can, like,
have your hair in your face,

and, like, headbang,
and that's a vibe,"

but I didn't realize that,
like,

women could be so,
like, tough,

with the ab-baring crop tops.

Like, there was
this very, like,

feminine thing about her,

but also this just,
like, punk attitude.

I remember she would, like,
spit up in the air on stage,

and I was like, "That's so cool.
I've never seen..."

Like, I had never seen
a girl do that before,

especially at that age.
Like, it was like,

"Don't spit. It's not girly."

She was punk,
but she was also,

you know,
a girly girl.

The first time
that I heard Fiona Apple

and that first album
that came out,

it was like

she wasn't shying away
from the darkness,

and she didn't seem
like she had to, like,

put on this, like, happy face.

Like, she could talk about
her feelings

in a way that felt really real,

and that I really connected to.

It was just so cathartic.

I just listened to that album
on repeat.

I was, like, 14 or 15
when Tidalcame out,

and she was only
a few years older.

I, at that point,
already knew

that I wanted to make music,

and I was here listening
to someone

who's so genius,
and so wise beyond her years,

and so, like,
absolutely vulnerable and tough,

and seemed to only do things
on her own terms,

even as, like.
a 19-, 20-year-old,

and I was just like,

"Oh, man.

If she's making this
at this age,

like, whoa,
I got a lot of work to do."

I was like...

Very few artists
can sort of live without skin,

and I feel like Fiona Apple
is one of those...

one of those artists.

Fiona and early Tori Amos
records,

like Little Earthquakes,

they were dangerous.

They talked about things
that were very dark.

They talked about
sexual assault.

They talked about
very deep, very raw emotions.

My first pro job
as a piano player

was at Mr. Henry's,
the gay bar,

and I guess as a teenage girl,

I needed the gay waiters
to tell me,

"How do you deal with a man

whose hand is kind of
slipping down your back?

How do you place a hand
somewhere else,

and not lose a customer?"

Because you couldn't
lose a customer,

or you would lose your job,

but I said to myself,

"If I don't do something,

I'm going to die
in this bar room

at a piano,

smelling of beer,"

and I hate beer.

So, I didn't do
the clever thing.

I started trying
to become everybody else.

I had sent my songs out
since I was 13

to record people,

and they said,

"You can't be serious
about this.

This girl and her piano thing
is never going to happen."

And after seven years,

I started to believe,
"Well, maybe they're right."

They said,
"You know, get a band,

do dance music,

do metal music,

do anything
but what you're doing,"

and I listened to them.

When I did
what everybody's opinion was,

they called me a bimbo.

The music industry
in the late '80s

didn't know what they wanted.

They wanted
what happened last month.

So I didn't listen
to that lesson

that Rickie Lee
was trying to tell us all,

that if you're you
and you're unique,

there is a place for you.

Rickie Lee blew my mind.

She was saying,
"Tori, you can be Tori.

You just have to go find
what that is."

Central in making
Little Earthquakes

was unzip the skin--

that's what
this record's about--

and I sort of made an oath,

a promise to the muses,

to document life as I saw it.

When you suddenly go
from playing in a club

to being on a label,

and what is the expectation?

You're an artist,

you're creating something,

and you're trying
to honor what that is,

and then there's
the selling part of the thing.

"You've made this thing.

How do we sell it?

And how do we sell you?"

When women come together,

women talk,
women form ideas,

women form coalitions.

We create change.
Women get shit done.

That was innately
intimidating to men

and to the old structure,

which they just--

Everything, they wanted
things to stay the same,

and...

we wanted things to change.

♪♪♪