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1
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(BELL TOLLING)
2
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I wasn't asked to write A Day Out.
I never have worked a commission anyway.
3
00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:36,636
I've always written things on spec,
4
00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,709
and I think I'd done two plays
5
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,591
on the stage at that time.
6
00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,879
And then I thought
I'd have a go at writing
7
00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,512
a film or television film,
8
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,637
without having any idea
how it was done, really,
9
00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,598
and there wasn't really anybody
you could ask.
10
00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:05,231
Now, I began by writing down
scraps of dialogue.
11
00:01:05,320 --> 00:01:07,754
I had no idea of the characters,
12
00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,593
but I just wrote down
scraps of dialogue.
13
00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,592
A lot of it,
stuff I remembered from childhood,
14
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,958
and stuff that my mother
and my father used to say.
15
00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,796
And then, I looked at what I'd got
16
00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,318
and started to try and make
characters out of it.
17
00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:30,153
And then I had this notion of...
I know what it was...
18
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:35,234
I saw a photograph of
what was obviously a cycling club,
19
00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:41,315
and thought that would be
a good vehicle, I mean, really.
20
00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:47,872
And so I had this notion
of sending a cycling club on an outing
21
00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,953
to Fountains Abbey,
from Halifax or Hebden Bridge,
22
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,716
Just before the First War.
23
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,917
But it wasn't very dramatic,
24
00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:05,158
and the BBC didn't think
it was very dramatic, because we...
25
00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,113
Stephen Frears...
I showed it to Stephen Frears
26
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,350
and he showed it to Innes Lloyd.
27
00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:14,878
And Innes Lloyd then sent it along
to the script department of the BBC.
28
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,315
And it came back with a note saying,
29
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,358
''We don't like this,
it doesn't go anywhere.''
30
00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:24,230
And Innes Lloyd, who was a wonderful
man and a wonderful producer,
31
00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,231
he wrote a note back saying,
32
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,108
''It goes to Fountains Abbey and back,
and that's quite far enough for me.''
33
00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,557
And then commissioned it.
So we owed it to him.
34
00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:36,995
I knew Stephen Frears socially,
35
00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:43,392
and he maybe had suggested
I write something,
36
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,198
I don't know, I can't remember.
37
00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:51,594
But he didn't...
I wrote it out and showed it to him,
38
00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,750
and he then gave it to Innes Lloyd.
39
00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,230
I mean, I didn't work
with him on it, I...
40
00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:02,591
I just wrote it off, you know,
on spec, really. And...
41
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,478
He'd never made a television film
before this time,
42
00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,915
so it was a first for him as well.
43
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:16,157
Innes Lloyd was
an old-fashioned BBC producer.
44
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,635
And old-fashioned in this sense,
that he...
45
00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,519
He didn't seem like a BBC producer,
for a start. He seemed like...
46
00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:33,276
Like one of those
rather raffish officers
47
00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:38,275
in the desert army in the Second War
who wore cravats,
48
00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,716
and who were rather cavalier
about their uniform.
49
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,190
He was very...
Debonair isn't quite the word,
50
00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,670
but he certainly was
a rather romantic figure.
51
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,719
And what was wonderful about him
52
00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,872
was that he trusted you entirely.
53
00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:02,310
He, I think, had a notion of the...
54
00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,714
The superiority or the sanctity
of the written word.
55
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:11,032
And that was your job
and he was going to support you.
56
00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:16,831
And I never recall ever having to
censor my scripts or to...
57
00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:23,639
And he never told me about
how many viewers we'd had.
58
00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,553
All the stock things which
producers are supposed to care about,
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00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,756
he didn't care about at all.
60
00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:36,068
And he produced everything I did
at the BBC, until...
61
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,189
The last one was
A Question of Attribution, which...
62
00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:44,273
He was quite plainly dying
when we were doing that.
63
00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,351
And that was in 1 991 .
64
00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,959
And I've not really worked
very much with BBC since.
65
00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,033
And it's because he was just
66
00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,877
such a wonderful umbrella
within a large organisation.
67
00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:00,313
You need somebody like that.
68
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:05,315
He knew exactly whom to approach,
he didn't...
69
00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,951
There wasn't... You didn't have to
go through all the formalities.
70
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,953
If he liked it,
he would see that it got made.
71
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:15,992
And they don't work like that now.
72
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,272
I worked with Patricia Routledge
I suppose about half a dozen times.
73
00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:27,319
The first time I saw her
was on the stage of Wyndham's,
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00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,278
I think, in 1 964,
75
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:35,388
when she was in a play by...
I think it was Roger Milner,
76
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,914
called How's the World Treating You?
77
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:44,189
And what was good about her
was that she...
78
00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:47,113
She absolutely got everything
out of a line.
79
00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:51,557
She never threw a line away,
she always got something out of it.
80
00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,269
And reading Orton's diaries
subsequently,
81
00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,316
he saw her and said exactly the same,
82
00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,915
and indeed used her in some
television plays that he wrote.
83
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,232
So, you know that she absolutely
84
00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,229
makes every word count.
That's one thing about her.
85
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:17,350
The other thing is that
her timing is very, very good,
86
00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:18,759
and very...
87
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,833
It's hard to explain, but it's very...
88
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,033
Oh, I mean...
89
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,590
Comedy is always dependent
on timing, but...
90
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,150
Particularly if you're doing,
in her case, monologues.
91
00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:42,158
She can split a second in the sense
that she can deliver the line,
92
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,836
and in delivering, get a glance
into the camera, which...
93
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,594
It's... I can't describe
how she does it,
94
00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,513
but I know she can do it
and nobody else...
95
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,272
There may be better actresses
than she is,
96
00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,239
but there's nobody I've seen
who is better at doing that and doing...
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00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,436
Being so specific and so...
98
00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,956
Having the audience
and yet being in the part.
99
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,429
And she's wonderful at that.
100
00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,830
Normally, i.e. provided Miss Hayman
101
00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,878
isn't paying us one of her state visits,
102
00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:18,238
come half past twelve and I'm ready
to down tools and call it a morning.
103
00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,233
I put on a lick of paint, slip over
and spend a penny in Costing.
104
00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:24,911
I should technically use the one
in Records,
105
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,709
but I've told them that lavatory seat
is a death-trap.
106
00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,597
And I'm not ringing up again.
107
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,831
''Try a bit of Sellotape.''
What are they paid for?
108
00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,551
I'll then route out
Miss Brunskill from 402
109
00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,950
and we'll meander gently over
for our midday meal.
110
00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,070
But you just have to hit it right,
111
00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,469
Because give it another five minutes
and believe me,
112
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,869
that canteen is dog eat dog.
113
00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,390
I wrote A Woman of No Importance
for Patricia Routledge.
114
00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:57,432
She won't thank me for remembering this,
115
00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,637
but when she read it, she said,
''Oh, it's a radio play.''
116
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,837
And she took some convincing,
117
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,435
but once she was convinced,
she did it superbly.
118
00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,999
And vindicated my belief
119
00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,197
that you could actually have
one head on the screen,
120
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:17,872
and that was riveting.
121
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,037
I don't see it
as particularly a bleak play.
122
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,513
Though I say it myself,
it's very funny at the start.
123
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,312
And there are,
even right until she dies,
124
00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,356
there are funny moments.
125
00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:37,989
But...
126
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:46,473
I just felt it was, I hope,
it was honest, that's all.
127
00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:48,710
And also, I thought it was...
128
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,676
It was slightly based on my aunties,
as some of my plays are.
129
00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,119
And her...
130
00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,717
I suppose the word is ''solipsistic.''
131
00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,952
Her total conviction that
she is the centre of the world.
132
00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,398
Even to the extent that the fly,
133
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:16,032
which is in the room as she's dying,
134
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,839
somehow the fly is an indication that...
135
00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,913
The fly has come to see her
rather than anybody else,
136
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,198
is an indication
of her superiority, really.
137
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,070
That seemed to me to be true.
138
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,800
I think in all the films that we made,
139
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,878
I was there, and used to go there...
140
00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,719
I don't think I attained the status
of having a car sent for me
141
00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:47,631
until much later on.
142
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,075
So I used to turn up.
143
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,919
And I used to be there
for various reasons.
144
00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,437
One, I used to like it, and it was
a break from having to sit at my desk.
145
00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,631
Another reason was that,
146
00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:08,510
very often,
the films are set in the north,
147
00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,036
and at that time, I don't know,
148
00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:13,314
for some reason it's got easier,
I think,
149
00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,234
but at that time, actors were less adept
150
00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,278
at doing a northern accent
than they are now.
151
00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,838
Actors are much better mimics now
than they used to be, for some reason.
152
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:31,278
So I often used to be there
slightly as a dialogue coach, really.
153
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,158
And I remember on A Day Out,
154
00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:42,115
Paul Shane, as one of the cyclists,
had to get off his bike
155
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,829
as they got to Fountains Abbey
overlooking this idyllic view,
156
00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,469
and he had to say, ''Eh, my bum is numb.''
157
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:55,191
And he persisted in saying,
''Eh, my bum's numb.''
158
00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:00,910
(LAUGHING) And I couldn't make him see
that there was any difference between
159
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,468
these two ways of saying the line.
160
00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,079
It made me realise that it's hopeless to
give an actor an inflection like that.
161
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:09,752
You just can't do it.
162
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,991
But that was what I was there for,
to actually...
163
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,471
'Cause Stephen, he wasn't from the north
and so he wasn't always sure
164
00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:22,313
how the rhythm of the line should be.
165
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,436
So that was another reason.
166
00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,672
And as I say, I used to...
167
00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,990
I like the company of actors,
they make me laugh.
168
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,356
I mean, they...
169
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:38,070
I mean... And also, it was quite camp,
in the way actors are camp.
170
00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,353
I remember, again, on A Day Out,
Philip Locke, who...
171
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,155
He was quite funny in the sense
that he was slightly odd in the eye.
172
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:53,758
And the actors hadn't woken up to this
until they saw the first rushes.
173
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,753
And they saw that if ever he was
in the background of a scene,
174
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,111
he was the one you watched
'cause he looked slightly peculiar.
175
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,192
(LAUGHING) And so they
learned how to avoid
176
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,078
being upstaged by him
and his odd in the eye-ness.
177
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:12,312
But I remember once, at Fountains,
178
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,075
he had to do a scene
in which he's picking flowers.
179
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,152
And we did the scene
and he picks the flowers,
180
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,390
and at the end of the scene,
when we'd cut,
181
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,040
he then went over to
John Normington and said,
182
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,829
''I brought you some flowers.
I hear your scene just died.''
183
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,712
And it's kind of silliness like that,
I like.
184
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,316
The original ending of A Day Out
wasn't at the war memorial
185
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,712
as it is in the finished version.
186
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,758
It was a series of...
187
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,873
Probably less interesting
in a way, less...
188
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,474
A series of shots of...
189
00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,554
Idyllic sunset shots, really,
of them going home along the road
190
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,871
we'd seen them coming to the Abbey on,
191
00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:04,398
in a very lyrical way,
and with plenty of music.
192
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,391
But the weather made that
absolutely impossible. So...
193
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,549
So then I had to write the scene
at the war memorial.
194
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,872
I never feel quite that it works,
in the sense that...
195
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,029
If you're going to age characters,
196
00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,753
in a way, it's better to see them as...
197
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,149
the older age first.
198
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,670
You've got used to what they look like
in the film as young men.
199
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,514
And then suddenly you see them,
200
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:44,913
the survivors, anyway, of the First War,
are much older, and it just works.
201
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,195
But it's one of those things
where you think,
202
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,555
''Oh, we could do that again.''
203
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,189
I was writing about the First War
in the film.
204
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,111
I mean, throughout, as it were.
205
00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,239
I can't remember now
whether it's in the film, but there's...
206
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,796
I wrote a shot in which,
207
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,512
in the middle of this idyll, as it were,
when they're in the Abbey,
208
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,591
there's distant thunder.
209
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:17,596
And I think somebody is actually
in one of the Abbey drains,
210
00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:19,750
but it could be a trench.
211
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,549
And as it were, it's a prefiguring
of what's going to happen.
212
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:29,680
So I was...
I did know that it was about that.
213
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,716
And it does give a lot of the dialogue
an ironic edge to it,
214
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:40,191
the fact that they are so hopeful
and that the future looks so bright.
215
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,954
Dinner at Noon
came out of my reading a...
216
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,950
The work of an American sociologist
called Erving Goffman.
217
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,037
He wrote a book called
218
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,680
The Presentation of Self
in Everyday Life.
219
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:00,557
He wrote many books.
220
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,519
And I think he's now
rather discredited as a sociologist.
221
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,194
But I've always found
his work fascinating.
222
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:12,752
And he had done his fieldwork in a hotel
223
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,116
on the island of Yell in the Hebrides,
I think,
224
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,634
or the Orkneys, somewhere in Scotland.
225
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,473
And his thesis had been about
226
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,520
the difference in the hotel between
227
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,513
the behaviour behind
the green and beige door
228
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,513
that closed off the public parts
of the hotel from the private parts,
229
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,636
and the way people's behaviour altered
230
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,632
when they moved
from one area into the other.
231
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,837
And I found this fascinating. And so...
232
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,276
I think that was the impulse to go
to the Crown Hotel in Harrogate,
233
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,715
to see whether one could
come across anything like this.
234
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:51,915
Well, of course, we didn't.
235
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,595
And it's not surprising, 'cause I think
Goffman lived for a year in this hotel,
236
00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:00,037
and worked in the kitchen, so he was
in a rather different position.
237
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,271
But that's how it started off.
238
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,796
But then finding it didn't work,
and finding that
239
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,759
we weren't really getting anything,
any interesting material,
240
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,677
I then sat down and wrote out
241
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,389
accounts of the stuff
I remembered from my childhood.
242
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,119
Not particularly about hotels,
but about cafes,
243
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,112
and about eating in public
with my parents.
244
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,955
And how my parents
were always intimidated
245
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,713
by hotels and boarding houses,
and so on.
246
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,309
And I think that struck a chord
with people.
247
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,790
As well as some of the overheard
conversations are very good,
248
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:47,352
the people talking in low voices,
just as my parents would have talked.
249
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,590
Cause they were...
250
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,229
They would never raise their voices
in a cafe,
251
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,834
or in a place where they were
likely to be overheard.
252
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,753
And so I think
that struck a chord with people.
253
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:04,435
I think some of Portrait or Bust
is to with teaching,
254
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,631
but the thing I remember about that
was that it was...
255
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,237
It was written...
256
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:20,154
I think I'd just been made a trustee
of the National Gallery,
257
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,148
which mystified me at the time.
258
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,676
I said to Neil MacGregor,
''Why have you asked me to do it?''
259
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,718
(CHUCKLES) He said, ''Oh, I think
you're the man in the street.''
260
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,236
And anyway, I think
it was made at that time.
261
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:39,314
And it's full of the things which
I very firmly believed, and believe now.
262
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,632
Particularly about access to art,
263
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,554
and about free art galleries.
264
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,158
Because there was a time in the '90s
265
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,950
when there was a very strong move
to charge for galleries,
266
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,792
and it was a battle
that was being fought.
267
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,757
So I think it was to do with that.
268
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,877
So I was quite passionate
about that side of it.
269
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,158
I also... There's a small child
in Portrait or Bust
270
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:13,189
who's standing on his tiptoes
looking at a Barbara Hepworth sculpture.
271
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,708
And he obviously likes it,
this small child.
272
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,598
And I think I saw him as me, really,
273
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,636
and felt that
that was what he was about,
274
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,951
what I'd been like as a child.
And that...
275
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,436
And I think this is how
the documentary ends, that...
276
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,514
I say that I had an easier time of it
than he's going to have,
277
00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:42,478
and it's not fair. And I still...
I do believe that very strongly.
278
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,791
And it links in
with all the other things which...
279
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,358
I think people just think I'm a boring,
old socialist, that's what I am.
280
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:55,355
But, you know, I don't believe
in public school education,
281
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,273
and believe in free education.
282
00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:00,794
And all those things which
283
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,713
the English tend to gloss over
and live with, really.
284
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:20,957
Who stole my heart away
285
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:26,753
Who makes me dream all day
286
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:31,834
Dreams I know can never be true
287
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,949
Seems as though...
288
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,077
ALAN BENNETT:
I'm not interested in spying.
289
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,595
I'm interested in spies
as people, I think.
290
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,552
But the actual spying business itself,
291
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,358
I mean, other people have done it
so well anyway,
292
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,034
but I'm not interested in that.
293
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:56,910
I am interested in how
they came to do what they did.
294
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,748
And how they could,
295
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,678
as Burgess, in An Englishman Abroad,
demonstrated,
296
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:11,550
how they could still regard themselves
as an Englishman abroad.
297
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,110
And it...
298
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,591
It was quite a...
299
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,719
Although it's, in a sense,
a historical play,
300
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,230
the events all happened in the past.
301
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:33,792
That question was very much to the fore
in the '80s when they were written.
302
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,359
When...
303
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,552
Treason was somehow made
the crime of crimes.
304
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,155
And treason didn't necessarily,
under Mrs Thatcher,
305
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,119
necessarily imply
betraying information to...
306
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,589
You know, miners were
practically treasonable,
307
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,194
the way she sold the State.
308
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,114
So, I think it was to do with that.
309
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,156
But it's also to do with
310
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,557
finding myself not...
311
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:10,229
Not shocked by what they did.
312
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,118
I mean, it seemed to me
that the Cambridge spies,
313
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,191
Philby possibly excepted,
314
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:20,354
but Blunt and Burgess were...
315
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,679
Became members of the Communist Party
and became Soviet spies
316
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:28,591
when they were very young men.
317
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,468
But once they had become Soviet spies,
there was no turning back.
318
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,348
They were saddled with that decision
for the rest of their lives.
319
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,233
And yet you could see that
320
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:51,114
everything about Burgess was English,
and inclined himself...
321
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:56,911
All his enthusiasms and all his
social attitudes were English.
322
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:03,155
And yet it was this wrong move
when he was in his 20s
323
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,037
which determined the rest of his life.
324
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,511
Coral played herself.
325
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:12,199
To begin with, I think, 'cause we
daren't imagine anybody else doing it.
326
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,636
I mean, she was
such a formidable personality.
327
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,711
If we'd suggested anybody,
328
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,598
(LAUGHS) she would have
torn them to bits.
329
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,188
But I remember she...
330
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,717
Because she was married to Vincent Price
and lived in Hollywood.
331
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,076
And I was on the phone to her,
332
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,039
and when we were talking about
the letters Burgess had written to her,
333
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:37,839
and I heard about the whole thing.
334
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,435
And she said,
335
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,598
''Who do you think should play me?''
336
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,432
And I heard myself saying,
337
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,636
(LAUGHING)
''Well, would you like to do it?''
338
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:54,111
I don't think it was in my gift, anyway,
but I didn't dare say anything else.
339
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,636
And, of course, it was wonderful,
'cause she carried it off.
340
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,359
And she'd had umpteen facelifts,
341
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,236
but she still was immensely glamorous.
342
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,838
And she was glamorous in a way
that people aren't glamorous now.
343
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:09,638
When she...
344
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,838
She wore a wonderful... This mink
or whatever it was, a fur coat.
345
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,672
But it was a most wonderful garment.
346
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,878
And when she went to get this coat,
at Nathan's, I think,
347
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,597
all the dressers
348
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,990
and the people from
the sewing department and all,
349
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,548
they all came to watch her try it on.
350
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,915
It was an extraordinary scene.
351
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,151
Alan Bates was...
352
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,909
When he was cast in
An Englishman Abroad, to my shame,
353
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,676
he was John Schlesinger's casting,
I didn't think he could do it,
354
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,719
'cause, I said, ''He's not upper-class
and it will show.''
355
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,268
And it didn't show.
356
00:23:54,360 --> 00:23:55,998
And John Schlesinger said,
quite rightly,
357
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,355
''Oh, no, you should cast to the actor,
not the class.''
358
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,158
And he was quite right.
359
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,193
I can't tell any of the stories
I know about Alan
360
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,111
'cause they're so improper.
361
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:12,556
But he would always have you
in hoots of laughter.
362
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:18,556
And he had such a... I mean, an active,
but in many ways disastrous sex life,
363
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,359
that there was always ample material
364
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,152
to convulse you.
365
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,516
And I was quite happy for him to tell me
the same stories time and time again.
366
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,388
I was just as helpless when he told me.
367
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:38,870
When Coral started filming,
she'd already had one bout of cancer.
368
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:44,112
And it recurred
in the course of the film.
369
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,431
So she was...
370
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:53,596
She wasn't actually weakened,
I don't think, except by anxiety.
371
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,879
But the good elements, more than good,
the sort of brave thing about her,
372
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:05,115
she didn't in any way suggest
that she was being brave.
373
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,351
She didn't act the part.
374
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,238
She just shrugged it off.
375
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,392
And John Schlesinger was bothered that
376
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,397
in some of the scenes it might show
in her face that she was a bit haggard.
377
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,471
I don't think it does, but...
378
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,633
But she lived anyway
for quite a while after that.
379
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,356
We shot An Englishman Abroad in Dundee,
380
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,276
some of it in Glasgow.
381
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:41,276
(CHUCKLES) But none of it
did we leave these shores for.
382
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,348
And it's interesting, really,
383
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,238
it educates the eye
when you're looking for locations.
384
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,711
And the reason why Glasgow was chosen,
385
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,634
there is a long row of
early 1 9th-century houses
386
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,153
which have been painted in such a way
387
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,630
that they look slightly like
St Petersburg.
388
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,915
They certainly don't look English.
389
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,391
And then there was a...
390
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,752
I think, is it called the Craig Hall?
391
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,116
There's a concert hall in Dundee
392
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,193
which was built in the '20s or '30s,
393
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,955
and that didn't look English.
394
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,554
And also, happily, in Dundee,
395
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,394
there was a community of Ukrainians
396
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,233
who'd come over to work
in the jute factories.
397
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,880
And so they were used as extras.
398
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,277
But it was...
399
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,756
The usual thing at that time,
if you wanted to suggest Russia,
400
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:46,717
was to film in Helsinki.
401
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,270
But the BBC couldn't afford
to send us to Helsinki, so...
402
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,639
A Question of Attribution
was a play before it was a film.
403
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,669
And it really arose out of my interest
in art history, really.
404
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,119
And I'd...
405
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,997
The time that Blunt was exposed
as a Soviet spy,
406
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,317
I'd made these notes on a possible
conversation with the Queen,
407
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,676
which was actually
the heart of the play.
408
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:47,356
And then I thought
I'd better see whether...
409
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,430
If I was ever going to do
anything about this,
410
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,956
whether there was a painting
in the Royal Collection
411
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,871
they could be discussing.
412
00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:02,832
And then found this picture,
not a great picture by any means,
413
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,357
which had these two figures in it,
414
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,431
and then if you X-rayed it,
415
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,159
if you cleaned it,
there was a third figure.
416
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,912
And if you X-rayed it, a fourth figure.
417
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,639
Then if you turned it around,
there was a fifth figure.
418
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,110
And I found this one Saturday afternoon
419
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,873
in an old copy of
The Burlington Magazine
420
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,315
in the London Library.
421
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,598
The London library on a Saturday
afternoon is not an exciting place,
422
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,831
and there's very, very few people there.
423
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,391
And it seemed to me, it's very seldom
this happens to you when you're writing,
424
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,756
it seemed such a gift,
the plot, from that.
425
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,594
This was such an obvious metaphor
for all the spies
426
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,148
that I thought, ''Well, somebody else
must surely spot this.''
427
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,516
At which point, somebody started
to come up the stairs.
428
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,797
(LAUGHING) And I thought,
''Oh, this is another playwright.''
429
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,670
And I did seriously think
somebody else was on to it.
430
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,398
But anyway, fortunately, they weren't.
431
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,040
So, that's how I came to write the play.
432
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,151
And when we...
433
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,990
When we made the film,
John Schlesinger made the film,
434
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,398
there was a...
435
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,277
Since there was a conversation
with the Queen,
436
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,069
the corgis had to figure.
And my heart sank
437
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,594
when I heard the corgis
were going to figure in this scene,
438
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,478
because my experience, there's always...
439
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,597
When there is an animal on a film,
there's always an animal handler.
440
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,318
And it's a misnomer.
441
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,757
They very seldom can handle the animals
they claim to know intimately.
442
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,638
And so I thought, ''Well, this is going
to lengthen the whole business
443
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,280
''if we have this animal handler.''
444
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,352
But for some reason,
these corgis behaved wonderfully.
445
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,472
And the Queen's entrance is preceded
446
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,313
by the corgis coming in
and scampering around.
447
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:51,719
And they did it perfectly.
448
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,189
Then Prunella Scales
came in as the Queen,
449
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,033
and it was absolutely just spot on.
450
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,796
I think I was interested in Kafka,
because...
451
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,669
I'd started reading him,
452
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,076
and felt that he'd been misconceived.
453
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,997
It seemed to me... I read The Trial,
454
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,518
and I think all I knew
about the trial before that was
455
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,388
I'd seen the Anthony Perkins film,
which is a very...
456
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,832
stock, rather cliched view of Kafka.
Kafka as a cog in...
457
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,955
K, as he is in the book,
as a cog in a wheel
458
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,235
and a faceless man, and so on.
459
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,509
But if you read The Trial, you'll find
it's much more like Alice in Wonderland
460
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,275
than it is like
a parable of bureaucracy.
461
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,353
And I suppose I felt I wanted
to tell people this, in a way.
462
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,237
And the more I read about Kafka,
463
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:57,189
the more effective as a person
he seemed to be.
464
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,551
He was, at that time,
465
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:06,628
presented as being
a hopeless neurotic, really.
466
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,278
And it was quite plain that he wasn't.
467
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,831
He was highly thought of
in this firm in Prague.
468
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,595
And did a great deal of good in his job.
469
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,956
I mean, quite apart
from his literary efforts.
470
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,316
And so, I suppose
it was to do with that, really.
471
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,869
The Insurance Man begins with
a flashback from Prague in 1 944,
472
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:40,275
when the city is being
bombarded or besieged
473
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,396
and the war is going on.
474
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:47,190
And a man, a sick man,
comes to see a doctor.
475
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,919
And the doctor tells him, I think he...
476
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:55,154
He asks him whether he's ever worked
in an asbestos factory.
477
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,797
And he said, yes, he did,
when he was a young man.
478
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,550
And so, then you go back
to the asbestos factory
479
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,030
that Kafka briefly managed.
480
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,755
I think I wanted to do it
that way around,
481
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,798
because if you'd done it
the other way around,
482
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,789
I don't know, it would seem tagged on,
it would seem less believable.
483
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:28,796
But since it was all... It was true that
that was exactly what had happened.
484
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,757
I mean, Kafka
485
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,151
is somehow, in a way that
he himself would have understood,
486
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,754
is somehow stalked by death.
487
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:46,872
He, physically, being so frail,
488
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,715
and then dying from...
489
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,075
He died of TB of the larynx.
490
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,709
And then he died. And then, of course...
491
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,828
the persecution of the Jews
would have seen him off,
492
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:12,392
'cause he would have been
gone to Auschwitz or wherever.
493
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:15,233
And then, if he hadn't,
494
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,118
if he went to America
as his doctor actually did go to...
495
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,955
His doctor was still practising
on Fifth Avenue in the '60s, I think.
496
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,349
If he'd gone to New York,
497
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,234
then, having managed this
asbestos factory for a few months,
498
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,630
that would have caught up with him
and he would have died anyway.
499
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:39,077
And it's as if, in a way, as I say,
he would understand it,
500
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,674
he couldn't escape death.
501
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:50,475
And that seemed to me, I don't know,
Just memorable, really.
502
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:58,388
Proust was a different thing.
It was just his...
503
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,440
His whole way of life fascinated me.
504
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:07,514
The fact that his whole life was geared
towards art, and that he
505
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,074
slept all through the night and...
506
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,039
Slept all through the day
and wrote during the night.
507
00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:19,949
And also, I read a bit about
508
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,397
an episode which wasn't
generally known about him.
509
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:30,079
Inviting a string quartet
back to his apartment
510
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,951
and making them play for him,
playing particular pieces of music.
511
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,715
And then feeding them with food
which were takeaways from the Ritz.
512
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:40,835
And that seemed to me...
513
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,956
And this was in the middle
of the First War.
514
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,477
And that seemed to me
a very romantic episode.
515
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,110
I think if...
516
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,519
It's like An Englishman Abroad.
If there's a plot, give it to me.
517
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,956
I'm very happy to write the piece,
I'm so bad at plots.
518
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,112
I'm just happy when
somebody's had an interesting life
519
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,997
and you can write something about it.
520
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:10,758
I think I haven't written for television
very much since 1 990,
521
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,355
really, since Innes Lloyd died.
And it's because...
522
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,351
Although the late Mark Shivas,
523
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,479
he was the producer for the
second series of Talking Heads.
524
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:23,788
He...
525
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:30,319
And he helped produce
A Private Function.
526
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,634
Nevertheless, I've never found anybody
527
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:37,234
to reproduce the relationship
I had with Innes.
528
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:38,639
And I think that's partly...
529
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:43,475
Also, I've been very happy
at the National Theatre.
530
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,391
I mean, they...
531
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,471
I always say, it's not like work.
I like going there.
532
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,269
It's like... It's play, you know,
and I think that's what I like.
533
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,191
It's going out to play.
534
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,914
I think I don't think about
535
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,198
the disparate audiences of theatre
and television in the sense that
536
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,114
obviously you can reach
far more people on television
537
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,760
than you'd ever do in the theatre.
538
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,030
Partly because I've got an old-fashioned
attachment to the written word.
539
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,395
It seems if you've got it written down,
540
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,314
somebody will do it, either in the
theatre or on television or whatever.
541
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,312
But the important thing
is to get it down, really.
542
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:32,034
I think I was trying
to find significance in the...
543
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:35,515
In ordinary life, because...
544
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:38,792
Really, that was all
that was available to me.
545
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,270
(LAUGHS) I mean,
writers don't lead interesting lives,
546
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,035
or very few writers do,
and I certainly haven't.
547
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:51,990
I mean, I find it a very satisfying
and a very lucky life,
548
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,037
but it can only be said to be
venturesome, really.
549
00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:59,308
But...
550
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,353
It seemed to me there's plenty
going on to write about.
551
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,989
And I still find that.
Touch wood, I don't know.
552
00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:14,029
But it's not... It wasn't a...
553
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,676
It wasn't a kind of determination
554
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,515
to look at one strand of...
Like George Gissing or something,
555
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,752
to look at a certain strand of life.
I... That was just...
556
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,276
And also, if you're a playwright,
557
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,716
very often the dialogue dictates
what you're interested in.
558
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,237
If you hear the voices in your head
and can transcribe them,
559
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:41,719
then you follow the voices.
560
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,236
And the voices in my case
were just ordinary voices,
561
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,993
and so that's probably
where it comes from.
47512
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