Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:38,690
They had
a series of murders
2
00:00:38,820 --> 00:00:42,040
during a satanic ritual
in the woods.
3
00:00:46,650 --> 00:00:49,350
Carl Drew was initially charged
with two murders.
4
00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:53,480
That of Doreen Levesque
and Karen Marsden.
5
00:01:03,100 --> 00:01:07,670
There's no physical evidence
at all tying Carl Drew
to these crimes.
6
00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,590
That night that she was supposed
to have been killed,
7
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,280
I was
at my stepmother's wedding.
8
00:01:12,420 --> 00:01:15,200
I had photos of me there.
9
00:01:17,070 --> 00:01:19,810
[woman] Robin was also indicted
for murder.
10
00:01:19,940 --> 00:01:22,470
She turned state's evidence.
11
00:01:31,650 --> 00:01:34,790
Robin was only 17 years old
at the time.
12
00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,740
Robin was caught in the middle
of all of this.
13
00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,920
The bottom line
is that Carl was a pimp,
14
00:01:41,050 --> 00:01:44,710
and Robin Murphy,
she was trying to be a pimp,
15
00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,840
at this time,
in the same area as Carl.
16
00:01:48,970 --> 00:01:53,150
Robin wanted control. She didn't
want to be a prostitute.
17
00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,590
Robin could eat pizza
and kill you right after that.
18
00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:02,550
You know, Robin is the one
who was the main character
in putting him away.
19
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,900
Robin Murphy came before
the state parole board
20
00:02:06,030 --> 00:02:09,520
and admitted to them
that she had lied.
21
00:02:12,130 --> 00:02:14,000
Robin masterminded all of this.
22
00:02:14,130 --> 00:02:19,870
[man] You know, you have
to give credit to Robin Murphy.
23
00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,010
The only thing you can say
is that she's a lot smarter
24
00:02:23,140 --> 00:02:25,310
than all the fucking people
involved in the case.
25
00:02:27,970 --> 00:02:31,280
[Murphy]
26
00:02:42,510 --> 00:02:44,550
And now I'm just not
gonna lie anymore.
27
00:02:47,860 --> 00:02:50,640
♪♪♪
28
00:04:00,450 --> 00:04:02,240
[Murphy groans]
29
00:04:14,420 --> 00:04:18,120
The stories I told,
I wanna take personal
responsibility for.
30
00:04:18,250 --> 00:04:20,300
I'm not looking to say,
"Oh, well, the DA did this
31
00:04:20,430 --> 00:04:23,870
and the police officers
did that." I'm not doing that.
32
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,440
I tried really hard numerous
times to tell the truth.
33
00:04:28,570 --> 00:04:31,880
No one cares.
34
00:04:32,010 --> 00:04:35,750
I wish that people really knew
what really happened.
35
00:04:44,020 --> 00:04:47,190
I thought I was all grown up
at a very young age.
36
00:04:47,330 --> 00:04:51,420
Probably because of the things
that happened didn't allow me
to be a kid.
37
00:04:51,550 --> 00:04:56,640
♪♪♪
38
00:04:56,770 --> 00:05:00,600
[woman] Robin had
a very traumatic childhood.
39
00:05:00,730 --> 00:05:04,040
Um, from, I would say,
pre-teen years on.
40
00:05:04,170 --> 00:05:05,950
I think she kind of
fell through the cracks.
41
00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,000
Nowadays, I think Department
of Children and Families
42
00:05:08,130 --> 00:05:09,740
would be involved.
43
00:05:09,870 --> 00:05:11,700
And unfortunately,
that wasn't the case
44
00:05:11,830 --> 00:05:14,530
back in, you know, the '70s.
45
00:05:14,660 --> 00:05:16,880
[woman] I met Robin Murphy.
46
00:05:17,010 --> 00:05:19,310
She was 12 and I was 12.
47
00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:24,580
My family pretty much
fell apart when I was ten.
48
00:05:24,710 --> 00:05:29,060
My father became
a very abusive alcoholic.
49
00:05:29,190 --> 00:05:31,670
I ran away.
50
00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,770
She gave her mom a phone call.
Her mother didn't even know me.
51
00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:38,720
And she let me stay
at that house.
52
00:05:42,510 --> 00:05:45,640
[Murphy] I met her when I was,
yeah, when I was about 12.
53
00:05:45,780 --> 00:05:47,600
I felt bad for her.
54
00:05:47,730 --> 00:05:50,350
Wanted my mother to take her in.
55
00:05:52,090 --> 00:05:56,000
[Hindle] I think her mother
was working at a bar.
56
00:05:56,130 --> 00:06:00,620
There was no, uh, no parent
in that house at all.
There was no parent.
57
00:06:03,230 --> 00:06:05,190
Like, altogether,
I probably saw her mother
when I was living there
58
00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,540
like five times.
59
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,850
[Murphy] With pretty much
having an absent parent,
60
00:06:16,980 --> 00:06:18,980
yeah, I kinda had
to make my own decisions.
61
00:06:19,110 --> 00:06:22,730
And I realized there
was nobody there.
62
00:06:22,860 --> 00:06:28,910
So... there was that clingy
thing to whoever was there.
63
00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:34,690
Her father was living
on County Street in Fall River.
64
00:06:34,820 --> 00:06:39,310
And twice I walked
from one side of the city
65
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,350
with Robin 'cause she wanted
to see her dad.
66
00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,530
[Murphy] I told my mother
I wanted to go live
with my father at one point.
67
00:06:48,140 --> 00:06:52,970
[Hindle] Her dad wouldn't
even open the door, said,
"Go away, I'm married."
68
00:06:53,100 --> 00:06:56,150
She wanted to be accepted
by her dad.
69
00:06:56,280 --> 00:06:59,280
And her dad certainly
didn't accept her.
70
00:06:59,410 --> 00:07:02,900
[Murphy] I was like, yeah,
no, I don't do this anymore.
71
00:07:07,030 --> 00:07:09,900
Robin was like the head
of the household at 12.
72
00:07:10,030 --> 00:07:14,690
She was-- she'd be the one
cooking that terrible chicken
with those russet potatoes
73
00:07:14,820 --> 00:07:18,080
and a can of corn
every damn night.
74
00:07:18,220 --> 00:07:21,960
Robin had three brothers.
75
00:07:22,090 --> 00:07:25,790
Bobby, the oldest brother, um,
76
00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,180
Mark,
77
00:07:28,310 --> 00:07:30,920
and Kelly.
78
00:07:34,750 --> 00:07:37,150
She was just totally on her own.
79
00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,670
12 years old, you know,
Bobby, her brother Bobby,
80
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,240
used to rape her, and nothing...
81
00:07:43,370 --> 00:07:45,980
Yeah, everything was always
hush-hush. Everything
was hush-hush back then.
82
00:07:51,470 --> 00:07:54,900
She said, "I don't wanna get
pregnant from my brother.
83
00:07:55,030 --> 00:07:57,600
My mom... my mom won't
love me anymore."
84
00:07:59,950 --> 00:08:03,300
[Kenyon] I think, with Robin,
85
00:08:03,430 --> 00:08:05,570
I think there's a denial factor.
86
00:08:05,700 --> 00:08:08,920
And maybe at that age,
not even knowing it's...
it's wrong.
87
00:08:09,050 --> 00:08:11,220
You know, maybe having
an inkling that this
is inappropriate.
88
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,010
But not really understanding
the gravity of what
was happening.
89
00:08:17,190 --> 00:08:19,970
Did you, uh, try and talk
to people about it?
90
00:08:20,100 --> 00:08:23,890
-I did. Deaf ears.
-Yeah.
91
00:08:24,020 --> 00:08:26,760
[Murphy] Um, my oldest brother
acted like things
never happened.
92
00:08:30,370 --> 00:08:33,330
Bobby was older than Robin.
His birthday was in November.
93
00:08:33,460 --> 00:08:37,770
That's all I remember.
But he was 16. Yeah.
94
00:08:37,900 --> 00:08:41,210
Four years older than Robin.
95
00:08:41,340 --> 00:08:44,170
[Murphy] I think,
as far as parenting goes,
on my mother's side,
96
00:08:44,300 --> 00:08:47,960
she did her best
with what she had.
97
00:08:48,090 --> 00:08:52,270
That's it. How do you deal
with things? I think
in her generation,
98
00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,010
you dealt with things by
sweeping them under the carpet.
99
00:08:55,140 --> 00:09:00,010
You don't take them out
into, you know, to other people.
100
00:09:05,370 --> 00:09:10,940
I met Robin, I wanna say
I was 16 or 17 years old.
101
00:09:11,070 --> 00:09:14,680
Which makes this young lady
11 or 12.
102
00:09:14,810 --> 00:09:16,330
Very young.
103
00:09:16,460 --> 00:09:20,990
I had seen her around town
in Fall River.
104
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,910
Because I wasn't too far away
from Fall River,
105
00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,260
and I had some friends
in Fall River, you know.
106
00:09:27,390 --> 00:09:30,520
And I had family members
that were in Fall River.
107
00:09:30,650 --> 00:09:34,700
So I would see her
here and there.
108
00:09:34,830 --> 00:09:40,100
And I had heard conversations
about her being around
in my father's life.
109
00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,060
Andy Maltais, he was very active
on the street.
110
00:09:50,150 --> 00:09:53,890
I was in front
of the Superior Court House.
111
00:09:54,020 --> 00:09:57,980
Um, lived near there,
about half a block.
112
00:09:58,110 --> 00:10:01,120
And he gave me a ride
down the street.
113
00:10:01,250 --> 00:10:05,730
-[director]
-[Murphy] Um... 11?
114
00:10:09,130 --> 00:10:13,130
[man] Andy was
the strangest character
probably of all.
115
00:10:13,260 --> 00:10:14,960
Uh, you could
walk the streets
116
00:10:15,090 --> 00:10:18,260
of Fall River
for a month,
117
00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,440
and you will not see anyone
with cowboy boots
118
00:10:20,570 --> 00:10:23,570
and a buckle that says "Texas"
on it and pill buttons.
119
00:10:23,710 --> 00:10:26,580
Andy Maltais
was dressed that way.
120
00:10:26,710 --> 00:10:33,410
He did wear boots
and he did have a big,
I guess, western belt buckle.
121
00:10:33,540 --> 00:10:38,940
I don't know exactly how
to describe him. We didn't...
we didn't go out to dinner.
122
00:10:39,070 --> 00:10:41,240
He was a character.
He was a character.
123
00:10:41,370 --> 00:10:43,250
He was an older guy.
124
00:10:43,380 --> 00:10:46,030
He lived with his mother,
first of all.
125
00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,340
And he was like, uh,
a wimpy guy.
126
00:10:49,470 --> 00:10:52,780
I don't think anyone
thought much of Andy.
127
00:10:57,740 --> 00:11:00,480
I was molested and raped
by Andy Maltais,
128
00:11:00,610 --> 00:11:03,090
starting at age 11.
129
00:11:03,220 --> 00:11:07,270
I wasn't performing
cult meetings
in the Freetown State Forest.
130
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,800
Andy was molesting me
in the Freetown State Forest.
131
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,320
She just ended up, I think,
being revictimized over
and over and over.
132
00:11:18,460 --> 00:11:21,410
Starting at 11.
133
00:11:21,550 --> 00:11:24,850
[Desouto] Andy was
a pedophile, basically.
134
00:11:24,980 --> 00:11:27,380
He liked young girls.
135
00:11:27,510 --> 00:11:32,120
He would drive around
and find these young girls.
136
00:11:32,250 --> 00:11:36,650
And people like that,
they're predators.
137
00:11:36,780 --> 00:11:40,170
He had a pattern of what we
would now say is grooming.
138
00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:44,520
You know, get in her good graces
and get her things
and take her around and,
139
00:11:44,660 --> 00:11:47,570
you know, eventually
sexually abuse her.
140
00:11:47,700 --> 00:11:52,580
[Murphy] He actually took me
to meet his mother at one point.
141
00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:55,670
Which I found very weird.
142
00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:00,630
My dad was always a part
of my life,
143
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:02,540
whether he was home
or not home.
144
00:12:02,670 --> 00:12:05,420
My mom and him separated
145
00:12:05,550 --> 00:12:08,110
because my dad
would like to go out at night.
146
00:12:14,290 --> 00:12:16,210
He liked younger women.
I mean, I don't know
what to tell you.
147
00:12:16,340 --> 00:12:19,170
But that was just his thing.
148
00:12:22,300 --> 00:12:25,170
[Murphy] I know that
at one point,
149
00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:27,390
the school that
I was going to...
150
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,920
Maybe I was in... jeez.
151
00:12:31,050 --> 00:12:32,620
Seventh grade?
152
00:12:32,750 --> 00:12:35,140
The school called my mother
and wanted to know
153
00:12:35,270 --> 00:12:37,660
who the man was in the red car
154
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,540
that was waiting
for me every day.
155
00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:41,840
And that was Andy Maltais.
156
00:12:41,970 --> 00:12:44,150
My mother asked me
and I told her it
was none of her business.
157
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,200
And that was good enough.
158
00:12:46,330 --> 00:12:49,330
I don't know
if it's she didn't care
159
00:12:49,460 --> 00:12:53,640
or she just didn't know
what to do about it.
160
00:12:53,770 --> 00:12:58,290
No one stood up for her. You
know, she kind of had to learn
to handle things by herself.
161
00:12:58,420 --> 00:13:03,340
Um, and had a very skewed
view of what's appropriate
and what's not appropriate
162
00:13:03,470 --> 00:13:07,170
and very limited trust
in people.
163
00:13:09,650 --> 00:13:13,660
Robin Murphy tried
to find other victims.
164
00:13:13,790 --> 00:13:19,920
So she... would not have
to have any kind of sexual
relationship with Andy Maltais.
165
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,450
Andy Maltais, he was gonna
give me a ride home.
166
00:13:28,590 --> 00:13:33,590
And she told me he'd be safe
and he wasn't.
167
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,370
He raped me.
168
00:13:35,510 --> 00:13:37,330
Repeatedly.
169
00:13:41,470 --> 00:13:45,910
Nobody knows. I guess everybody
who's watching it is gonna know
about me now.
170
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:47,130
But it's okay.
171
00:13:48,650 --> 00:13:52,960
He tied my hands behind a...
172
00:13:53,090 --> 00:13:54,830
pine tree.
173
00:13:59,140 --> 00:14:01,050
And he was masturbating.
174
00:14:01,180 --> 00:14:03,490
And then broke my virginity.
175
00:14:03,620 --> 00:14:07,230
And then he put a stick
in my vagina...
176
00:14:09,370 --> 00:14:11,150
and told me if I said anything,
177
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,670
my parents and my sister
were gonna be dead.
178
00:14:14,810 --> 00:14:20,160
And I didn't want him
to kill my... kill my parents.
179
00:14:20,290 --> 00:14:22,250
Or kill my sister.
180
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,740
I went to the police station
and told them about Andy.
181
00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:38,790
They wouldn't even take my
statement 'cause I was only 12.
182
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,400
They didn't care.
They didn't care.
183
00:14:44,970 --> 00:14:48,270
[Murphy] I guess it was
something that was overlooked.
184
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,670
And I don't mean
to put men down,
185
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,410
but it seems like men
were always privileged
and women were not.
186
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,640
Nowadays, the lens on that
is much different.
187
00:15:02,770 --> 00:15:05,730
But even through the police
reports and looking at stuff,
188
00:15:05,860 --> 00:15:08,950
it does appear that they really
just were, "No big deal."
189
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,220
[director]
190
00:15:25,830 --> 00:15:27,270
No.
191
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:28,750
No, uh...
192
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,490
Because we were, at that time,
193
00:15:31,620 --> 00:15:34,710
we were just interested in...
in homicides.
194
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,060
Uh...
195
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:41,850
They didn't care.
196
00:15:41,980 --> 00:15:44,760
They still don't.
They still don't.
197
00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:47,770
[Silvia] The only defense
Robin has
198
00:15:47,900 --> 00:15:52,250
is she was sexually abused
and brutalized as a child.
199
00:15:52,380 --> 00:15:55,560
Uh, and psychologically
that damaged her.
200
00:15:55,690 --> 00:15:58,340
But she isn't fit
to be among society.
201
00:15:58,470 --> 00:16:01,610
I consider her
a dangerous person.
202
00:16:01,740 --> 00:16:05,130
They didn't give a flying fuck.
There you go, I'm sorry.
203
00:16:05,260 --> 00:16:08,090
For God's sakes... oh.
204
00:16:08,220 --> 00:16:10,620
Oh, boy, oh, boy, oh, boy.
205
00:16:10,750 --> 00:16:14,970
[Boyle] I don't know, I think
it may have been the time.
206
00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:19,630
People in the '70s
and even the early '80s.
207
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:24,330
Uh, child rape cases
were not pursued
208
00:16:24,460 --> 00:16:26,760
the way they are today.
209
00:16:26,890 --> 00:16:29,200
They may have thought
that it was consensual.
210
00:16:29,330 --> 00:16:31,720
So it's all okay.
211
00:16:31,860 --> 00:16:33,120
Uh, it's not.
212
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,960
[man] Okay, there was a long
relationship with Andy Maltais.
213
00:16:45,090 --> 00:16:48,480
-Yes, sir.
-About roughly six years?
214
00:16:48,610 --> 00:16:51,660
-Since you were
11 or 12 years old?
-Correct.
215
00:16:51,790 --> 00:16:55,660
-He was 44 at the time, right?
-Okay. I'm really not sure.
216
00:16:55,790 --> 00:17:00,450
Okay. Something regarding
your childhood,
217
00:17:00,580 --> 00:17:05,450
um, and, you know,
uncontroverted trauma
218
00:17:05,580 --> 00:17:08,630
that you experienced
when you were very young.
219
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,680
Um, it accounts for a lot
of your actions.
220
00:17:13,810 --> 00:17:15,900
But there's a...
there are a lot of things
221
00:17:16,030 --> 00:17:18,900
that... that does
not account for.
222
00:17:19,030 --> 00:17:22,300
And, you know, when... when...
223
00:17:22,430 --> 00:17:24,780
A lot of things,
you took it upon yourself
224
00:17:24,910 --> 00:17:29,040
to make this so much
more complicated.
225
00:17:34,830 --> 00:17:36,880
[Hindle] Andy bought me two
puppies after he molested me.
226
00:17:37,010 --> 00:17:40,750
And he did call my
parents' house one time.
227
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,800
And my father
picked up the phone.
228
00:17:43,930 --> 00:17:48,670
My dad knew something was up,
but he didn't say anything.
229
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:54,500
That made it worse for me.
That made it worse for me.
230
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:57,510
Andy killed my other puppy
in front of me.
231
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,030
He says, "Now this
is gonna be your father."
232
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,900
That experience has traumatized
my life for the rest of my life.
233
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,210
The nightmares don't go away.
234
00:18:09,870 --> 00:18:12,830
[Kenyon] A lot of times kids
who are victimized and abused
235
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,700
continue to be victimized
and abused by other people.
236
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:19,440
Um, you know, almost like
they have a target on them.
237
00:18:19,570 --> 00:18:23,100
Um, I think with Robin,
it definitely impacted
238
00:18:23,230 --> 00:18:27,540
any form of any close
relationship she had
with anyone.
239
00:18:27,670 --> 00:18:31,150
[woman] What did you perceive
as behaviors or character traits
240
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,330
that you needed to address
during your incarceration?
241
00:18:34,460 --> 00:18:36,980
-Um...
-To be rehabilitated.
242
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:40,640
I would say, um, anger.
243
00:18:40,770 --> 00:18:44,070
But the anger came from hurt.
244
00:18:44,210 --> 00:18:48,560
And that came as a result
of, uh, abuse.
245
00:18:48,690 --> 00:18:50,650
And neglect.
246
00:18:51,950 --> 00:18:54,560
Abuse from male figures.
247
00:18:54,690 --> 00:18:58,780
Um, and neglect
from a mother figure
who was kind of not there.
248
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:04,230
She was busy trying
to make ends meet
to bring up four kids.
249
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:08,360
If you don't walk through that
and you don't forgive the past,
250
00:19:08,490 --> 00:19:10,800
then you don't get to grow up.
251
00:19:10,930 --> 00:19:13,150
And you stay angry.
252
00:19:14,410 --> 00:19:17,720
♪♪♪
253
00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:33,300
Robin, she got pregnant.
254
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:35,560
Had a son.
255
00:19:35,690 --> 00:19:38,300
I believe she was barely 16.
256
00:19:40,130 --> 00:19:44,180
I had a gay brother.
He was two years older than me.
257
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,450
When Robin told me
she was pregnant,
258
00:19:57,580 --> 00:19:59,630
I went to the house
and we talked.
259
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,760
She said, "I was raped
and I'm effing pregnant."
260
00:20:06,550 --> 00:20:09,460
And her mom took the child.
261
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:11,940
I think having a baby
and being gay...
262
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,210
At that point she was gay.
263
00:20:15,730 --> 00:20:17,600
That really messed her head up.
264
00:20:32,660 --> 00:20:34,270
I know she doesn't want
to talk about it.
265
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,930
I think, in a broad term
of, you know, getting pregnant,
266
00:20:38,060 --> 00:20:40,540
I think it kind of forced her
to grow up quicker
267
00:20:40,670 --> 00:20:44,890
than I think any teenage parent
ends up having to do.
268
00:20:45,020 --> 00:20:46,850
[Hindle] Everything spiraled
with Robin.
269
00:20:46,980 --> 00:20:50,030
The older she got,
having a child,
270
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,600
hormones after having a child
at a young age,
271
00:20:54,730 --> 00:20:56,510
depressed all the time.
272
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,380
[Murphy]
273
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,090
[Fitzgerald] Sonny Sparda,
she was a friend of Robin's.
274
00:21:13,220 --> 00:21:14,920
And they were allegedly,
275
00:21:15,050 --> 00:21:16,880
they were having
a lesbian relationship.
276
00:21:17,010 --> 00:21:22,450
[Silvia] Sonny Sparda
had a history of prostitution.
277
00:21:22,580 --> 00:21:25,190
And, um, she lived
at Harbor Terrace
278
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,200
which was a housing development
no longer in existence.
279
00:21:29,330 --> 00:21:33,550
[man] Robin was over there
constantly. And Sonny was
friendly with Carl Drew.
280
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,460
She was friendly
with the whole group.
281
00:21:38,290 --> 00:21:42,770
[Murphy] I know that I never
enjoyed the company of men...
282
00:21:42,910 --> 00:21:44,690
sexually.
283
00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:48,870
So we kind of hung
to the gay bars.
284
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,000
I met Sonny there.
285
00:21:51,130 --> 00:21:55,740
Um, she seemed nice.
286
00:21:55,870 --> 00:21:58,530
That got different
really quick, but...
287
00:21:58,660 --> 00:22:01,140
at the time she seemed nice.
288
00:22:01,270 --> 00:22:03,580
We spent a lot of time
in Sonny's apartment.
289
00:22:03,710 --> 00:22:07,360
It was a place for us to meet.
290
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:11,240
It's hard to understand it.
Why would they wanna... want
291
00:22:11,370 --> 00:22:14,760
the police detectives around
in Sonny Sparda's apartment?
292
00:22:14,890 --> 00:22:20,810
But they thought they could
gather the information from us.
293
00:22:20,940 --> 00:22:24,950
Um, we knew we could get
information from them.
294
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,430
And they were too afraid
to keep us away.
295
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:32,000
The amount of time we spent
with these girls is incredible.
296
00:22:32,130 --> 00:22:34,520
[Murphy] To me,
they were never cops.
297
00:22:34,650 --> 00:22:36,650
They had badges.
298
00:22:36,790 --> 00:22:40,050
They just didn't operate
like police officers.
299
00:22:40,180 --> 00:22:44,010
There was some concerns
about how Fall River
300
00:22:44,140 --> 00:22:47,320
was getting information
from informants.
301
00:22:47,450 --> 00:22:51,230
They were perceived as hanging
out with them too much.
302
00:22:51,370 --> 00:22:54,500
Um, drinking with them.
303
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:58,460
Uh, getting too...
the perception was that they
were getting too friendly.
304
00:22:58,590 --> 00:23:00,940
We were given the green light
by our commander at the time.
305
00:23:01,070 --> 00:23:04,420
So anything that we had to do
to do that,
306
00:23:04,550 --> 00:23:08,770
including us bringing alcohol,
marijuana into the apartment,
we did it.
307
00:23:10,910 --> 00:23:13,130
[Kenyon] You had girls
being exploited,
308
00:23:13,260 --> 00:23:15,080
and they just weren't
particularly concerned
309
00:23:15,210 --> 00:23:18,520
about the exploitation factor
of those girls.
310
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:25,140
[Murphy] I was with a friend.
311
00:23:25,270 --> 00:23:28,660
We went to buy marijuana
from someone.
312
00:23:28,790 --> 00:23:33,540
And Carl Drew was seated
on a couch.
313
00:23:33,670 --> 00:23:36,450
'Cause I remember backing up
and saying, "Come on,
I wanna get out of here."
314
00:23:36,580 --> 00:23:40,680
He just had an icy stare.
I didn't like the look of him.
315
00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:45,770
So I end up meeting Robin
at Sonny's.
316
00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:48,900
We didn't get along. She had
an attitude when she talked.
317
00:23:49,030 --> 00:23:51,990
You know, you're supposed
to pay attention to her
or listen to her.
318
00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:54,380
And I was above
and beyond all that stuff.
319
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,780
[Murphy] He was just
a really intimidating guy.
320
00:23:58,910 --> 00:24:01,650
Hearing stories about him...
321
00:24:01,780 --> 00:24:05,220
I didn't believe them.
322
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:08,570
They just seemed too out there
to be true.
323
00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:16,360
Robin had this disposition
that she tried to act like a man
324
00:24:16,490 --> 00:24:18,450
and we're having
a heated argument.
325
00:24:18,580 --> 00:24:21,240
And I got to a point
where I wanted to punch her.
326
00:24:21,370 --> 00:24:24,980
But I didn't. I end up
open slapping her
and knocking her on her ass.
327
00:24:31,550 --> 00:24:34,030
[Murphy] Carl had come
to Sonny's house.
328
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,080
And Karen Marsden was with him.
329
00:24:37,210 --> 00:24:41,390
And he was upset with her
for some reason.
330
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,910
Karen was seated in a chair
where I couldn't see her.
331
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,870
Carl kept pacing back and forth.
So I got up.
332
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,830
Pissed off,
went in the bathroom.
333
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,180
And she said,
"What's the matter with you?"
334
00:24:51,310 --> 00:24:53,750
I said, "He's a jerk."
335
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,320
Karen Marsden,
she was a sweet person.
336
00:24:56,450 --> 00:24:58,710
She was concerned about her son.
337
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,020
For a 17-year-old, yes,
I loved her. Yes.
338
00:25:03,150 --> 00:25:05,850
It was somebody that was there.
339
00:25:05,980 --> 00:25:10,810
She told me her introduction
to being a prostitute for Carl
340
00:25:10,940 --> 00:25:15,290
was she told me
a story about him
341
00:25:15,420 --> 00:25:17,900
choking her one night
at the Holiday Inn.
342
00:25:19,900 --> 00:25:21,730
She passed out.
And when she woke up,
343
00:25:21,860 --> 00:25:24,210
she was laying on the bed
344
00:25:24,340 --> 00:25:26,560
and he was dripping blood
down on her forehead.
345
00:25:31,310 --> 00:25:35,090
Carl decided he should
take her car
346
00:25:35,220 --> 00:25:41,060
and basically, um,
had her doing drugs.
347
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:43,100
Very unfortunate.
348
00:25:43,230 --> 00:25:47,890
I took her to
the Corrigan Mental Health Unit.
349
00:25:48,020 --> 00:25:52,370
I needed somebody to look at her
and try to help her.
350
00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:57,900
Um, they gave her Haldol,
Haldol, whatever
the heck that is
351
00:25:58,030 --> 00:25:59,940
and sent her on her way.
352
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,120
Um, that was
how they treated that.
353
00:26:02,250 --> 00:26:06,210
Drugs with more drugs
and more drugs.
354
00:26:06,340 --> 00:26:10,610
I noticed recently that
355
00:26:10,740 --> 00:26:15,700
my involvements with people
have always been
with broken people.
356
00:26:21,970 --> 00:26:23,750
[Hindle] Robin's father
let her down,
357
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,060
for not caring.
358
00:26:26,190 --> 00:26:29,320
Or having the time for her.
359
00:26:29,450 --> 00:26:31,450
Then you got Andy.
360
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:33,720
And then you got Carl Drew.
361
00:26:35,410 --> 00:26:37,900
[Kenyon] They have, you know,
made their case
362
00:26:38,030 --> 00:26:40,990
on Robin being a central figure
in this
363
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:43,950
and her being
a main perpetrator,
364
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,470
um, instead of a victim.
365
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:51,340
She fell in with this crowd
of people, Carl Drew included,
366
00:26:51,470 --> 00:26:55,040
who was a known pimp
in Fall River and in his
20s at the time.
367
00:26:55,170 --> 00:26:59,440
So to put it on her,
that she, at 17,
368
00:26:59,570 --> 00:27:04,010
you know, was pimping out
other girls who
were older than her,
369
00:27:04,140 --> 00:27:06,400
I think was very short-sighted.
370
00:27:06,530 --> 00:27:10,010
Robin did a lot of intimidation,
not only with Karen,
371
00:27:10,150 --> 00:27:12,450
who she totally controlled,
372
00:27:12,580 --> 00:27:15,240
but she did a lot of
intimidation with everyone else
who worked the street.
373
00:27:15,370 --> 00:27:19,500
Keep in mind, Robin was only
17 years old at the time.
374
00:27:19,630 --> 00:27:24,290
But, um, a very violent person.
375
00:27:24,420 --> 00:27:28,470
[Kenyon] They weren't fully
grasping, you know, that she
was an exploited victim.
376
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,990
[Silvia] She may have been
a child at 17 years old,
377
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,300
or considered a child.
378
00:27:33,430 --> 00:27:35,210
Robin didn't need
any protection.
379
00:27:35,340 --> 00:27:38,220
So there's this group
of prostitutes
380
00:27:38,350 --> 00:27:40,920
and they're being controlled
by Carl Drew,
381
00:27:41,050 --> 00:27:42,530
who's a motorcycle
and tough guy.
382
00:27:42,660 --> 00:27:45,400
-A 16-year-old girl.
-Mm-hm.
383
00:27:45,530 --> 00:27:48,050
-Doesn't seem to fit...
-Just as violent, if not more.
384
00:27:48,180 --> 00:27:50,930
You look at her, you say, "Ooh.
385
00:27:51,060 --> 00:27:52,840
She's sweet and innocent."
386
00:27:52,970 --> 00:27:54,800
That was not the case.
387
00:27:56,370 --> 00:27:59,720
It's very frustrating
to have people
388
00:27:59,850 --> 00:28:04,030
even now refer to her
as a prostitute or as a pimp,
389
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,420
um, when she was clearly
victimized and was
trafficked herself
390
00:28:08,550 --> 00:28:10,950
in with this group of adults.
391
00:28:12,380 --> 00:28:15,080
♪♪♪
392
00:28:17,690 --> 00:28:21,480
[Fitzgerald] I was on call
that weekend. Doreen Levesque.
393
00:28:21,610 --> 00:28:25,700
We found her under the bleachers
at Diamond Vocational
High School in Fall River.
394
00:28:27,570 --> 00:28:31,140
She had been severely beaten
and was, you know, killed.
395
00:28:31,270 --> 00:28:36,490
[Murphy] Karen said
that Carl killed a girl
under the bleachers.
396
00:28:36,620 --> 00:28:41,280
I insisted, "Nah. He's just
told you that to, you know,
get you to walk right."
397
00:28:44,980 --> 00:28:47,460
-[man] That's Karen
telling you this?
-Karen was telling me that. Yes.
398
00:28:47,590 --> 00:28:49,550
Were you present when,
we're talking about,
399
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,770
do you know the girl that was
found behind the bleachers?
400
00:28:51,900 --> 00:28:55,470
-Yes, that was Doreen Levesque.
-Doreen Levesque. Right.
401
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,860
Karen used to call me on the
phone all the time, you know,
402
00:28:58,990 --> 00:29:02,340
Drew's gonna threaten her.
I said, "Karen,
we'll take care of you.
403
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:05,090
We'll move you somewhere.
We'll do something for you."
404
00:29:05,220 --> 00:29:07,390
"No, I don't want to go.
I don't want to leave."
405
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,610
So Carl smashed her head in
with rocks.
406
00:29:09,740 --> 00:29:13,700
And she was crying and she
had holy water in her pocket.
407
00:29:13,830 --> 00:29:17,580
[woman] Doreen
was the first victim.
408
00:29:17,710 --> 00:29:23,410
But the most astonishing thing
is that before
the Karen Marsden murder,
409
00:29:23,540 --> 00:29:28,070
Robin Murphy had been a witness
to the murder
of another young prostitute,
410
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,070
Barbara Raposa.
411
00:29:32,550 --> 00:29:36,600
[Silvia] That homicide
involved Andy Maltais and Robin.
412
00:29:36,730 --> 00:29:38,600
Carl wasn't present.
413
00:29:38,730 --> 00:29:40,900
Uh, none of the other actors
were present.
414
00:29:44,780 --> 00:29:47,130
[Murphy] I don't like
to bring that up, I have to say.
415
00:29:47,260 --> 00:29:49,910
Um, because Andy died.
416
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:59,920
♪♪♪
417
00:30:15,460 --> 00:30:19,030
It was a wooded area
but clearly seen from the road.
418
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:20,340
You could drive in there.
419
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:22,860
It was a sort
of a lover's lane.
420
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,650
There was a gentleman
who was walking his beagle dog.
421
00:30:29,780 --> 00:30:31,520
The ground was frozen.
422
00:30:31,650 --> 00:30:34,830
And the dog went over,
was licking the dead body.
423
00:30:37,530 --> 00:30:39,920
That was a Saturday in January.
424
00:30:40,050 --> 00:30:41,970
And it was cold.
425
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,270
And she was frozen solid.
426
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,280
Her face was smashed in.
427
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:55,850
In the area where we found her,
there were some cement blocks.
428
00:30:57,590 --> 00:31:00,850
A cement block did
serious damage to her face.
429
00:31:02,460 --> 00:31:04,990
She was... severely beaten.
430
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,650
[Silvia] The body was
completely frozen, rock solid,
431
00:31:11,780 --> 00:31:15,000
when we removed it
from that location.
432
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:26,920
What we did was interviewed
everyone we could think of
433
00:31:27,050 --> 00:31:30,360
that was directly or indirectly
involved with her.
434
00:31:33,150 --> 00:31:36,150
[Fitzgerald] We tied
the connection together
that she was Andy's girlfriend
435
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,410
and it developed from there.
436
00:31:41,070 --> 00:31:43,850
The only time I knew of Barbara
was he spoke with me
437
00:31:43,980 --> 00:31:45,720
about having a female
in his life
438
00:31:45,860 --> 00:31:48,340
and that he had a new woman
in his life
439
00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:53,040
and that he really cared for her
and that she really
needed his help.
440
00:31:58,170 --> 00:32:02,350
She was 17 and he was 40.
441
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,050
And she started dating him.
I tried to...
442
00:32:06,180 --> 00:32:07,440
get her away from him.
443
00:32:07,570 --> 00:32:10,180
But she thought he was great.
444
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:12,660
'Cause, at first, he was nice.
445
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,190
But then he started, you know,
giving her more and more drugs.
446
00:32:19,370 --> 00:32:22,540
I was best friends with her
sister since second grade.
447
00:32:23,550 --> 00:32:27,590
She told me when Barbara
was five months' pregnant,
448
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,420
that it might be Andy's.
449
00:32:30,550 --> 00:32:33,210
She had a son.
450
00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:37,430
She was younger, so, you know,
451
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,780
a lot of people take that
like that's a bad thing
452
00:32:39,910 --> 00:32:43,480
because it was like probably
a 20 years age difference.
453
00:32:43,610 --> 00:32:47,480
But I have aunts and uncles
today that are that far apart
and they're still married.
454
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,050
Barbara was... I'm gonna cry.
455
00:32:54,180 --> 00:32:56,620
Was a good girl.
456
00:32:56,750 --> 00:32:59,800
She was, um...
457
00:32:59,930 --> 00:33:03,370
In grammar school,
she did all the right things.
458
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,280
That's why I'm here.
459
00:33:07,420 --> 00:33:10,110
I don't remember...
460
00:33:11,900 --> 00:33:16,470
them talking about her
at length ever.
461
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,950
Um...
462
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,650
I don't remember
any pictures of her.
463
00:33:21,780 --> 00:33:23,260
She was a beautiful girl.
464
00:33:26,740 --> 00:33:30,310
And, um,
justice wasn't done for her.
465
00:33:33,140 --> 00:33:35,660
[Silvia] I really didn't know
much about Barbara
466
00:33:35,790 --> 00:33:37,580
until we found her body.
467
00:33:37,710 --> 00:33:40,360
[Desouto] The night
that she disappeared,
468
00:33:40,490 --> 00:33:43,410
she was thinking of leaving,
469
00:33:43,540 --> 00:33:45,540
and she was getting
a clearer head.
470
00:33:45,670 --> 00:33:49,590
And she was finally thinking,
"I have a life to live,
471
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:54,510
I have a son,
I'm gonna fix this and get out."
472
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,290
And she disappeared.
And she was killed.
473
00:33:59,950 --> 00:34:04,170
[Fitzgerald] Barbara was,
affiliating is probably
the correct word,
474
00:34:04,300 --> 00:34:05,730
with this other guy.
475
00:34:05,860 --> 00:34:10,350
But Andy was jealous
of their relationship.
476
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,920
That's really part
of an abusive relationship.
477
00:34:14,050 --> 00:34:16,700
She wants to leave Fall River.
478
00:34:16,830 --> 00:34:18,570
She wants to move on
with her life,
479
00:34:18,700 --> 00:34:21,320
'cause she is really only a kid.
480
00:34:21,450 --> 00:34:24,490
He doesn't want her to leave.
481
00:34:24,620 --> 00:34:27,190
Andy wasn't the main suspect
in the case.
482
00:34:28,930 --> 00:34:30,630
I was 100 percent convinced
483
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,590
that he didn't murder
Barbara Raposa.
484
00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:36,420
The medical examiner testified
485
00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:40,550
that from the wounds he saw
on Barbara Raposa,
486
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,470
whoever did that would have
been covered with blood.
487
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,950
Andy lived with his mother.
488
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,910
It was a very small apartment.
489
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,700
Andy's mother said she
didn't hear him come in late.
490
00:34:53,830 --> 00:34:57,050
When he came in, she didn't
hear him take a shower.
491
00:34:57,180 --> 00:34:59,480
She didn't find
any bloody clothes.
492
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,230
My father was not there.
493
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,580
He was home in bed.
494
00:35:08,710 --> 00:35:13,280
Just like my mammy said,
she's not gonna lie.
495
00:35:13,410 --> 00:35:15,410
She's a French woman
from Canada.
496
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,770
Andy... really wouldn't...
wouldn't stay away
from the police.
497
00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:31,560
I mean, he was at the police
station all the time saying,
498
00:35:31,690 --> 00:35:33,040
"You know,
I just thought of something,
499
00:35:33,170 --> 00:35:35,520
maybe I can help you out
on this."
500
00:35:35,650 --> 00:35:39,610
And they strung him along.
501
00:35:39,740 --> 00:35:43,880
I think he thought he was some
kind of a junior G-man.
I don't really know.
502
00:35:44,010 --> 00:35:47,310
I found that people
who commit homicide
503
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,880
want to tell someone.
504
00:35:50,010 --> 00:35:55,280
Sounds strange, but they want
to tell you what they did.
505
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,420
Midnight, I think on a Friday
or Saturday evening,
506
00:36:06,550 --> 00:36:10,690
Andy Maltais came
into our office.
507
00:36:10,820 --> 00:36:12,430
Came in with his cowboy boots
508
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,820
and his cowboy buckle
and his shirt.
509
00:36:16,950 --> 00:36:19,430
[Silvia] And he came in holding
a Bible.
510
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:20,700
I said, "Andy, why the Bible?"
511
00:36:20,830 --> 00:36:22,610
And he said he was with God now.
512
00:36:22,740 --> 00:36:24,700
But prior to that,
he'd been with the devil.
513
00:36:27,310 --> 00:36:29,970
[Macy] It was crazy. First of
all, he didn't have a lawyer.
514
00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:34,010
And I'm not sure he would
have listened to a lawyer
at that point if he had one.
515
00:36:34,140 --> 00:36:37,800
[Silvia] We gave him
his Miranda warnings.
516
00:36:37,930 --> 00:36:40,020
His rights.
517
00:36:40,150 --> 00:36:43,540
[Macy] Andy just kept telling
the police, as far as I recall,
518
00:36:43,670 --> 00:36:45,200
"Look, I know what I'm doing."
519
00:36:47,980 --> 00:36:50,770
[Silvia] There was
quite a bit of...
520
00:36:50,900 --> 00:36:53,820
conversation about God
and about Satan,
521
00:36:53,950 --> 00:36:56,950
and I really worked him over
with that.
522
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,300
But that went on
for about, uh, 48 hours.
523
00:37:01,430 --> 00:37:04,610
We had no sleep.
We just kept working
and working that issue.
524
00:37:06,180 --> 00:37:08,660
For whatever reason,
525
00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:11,700
he wanted to...
call it whatever you want,
526
00:37:11,830 --> 00:37:14,710
cooperate, participate.
527
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,970
You know, he wanted to be
involved with the police.
528
00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:22,630
He probably would have stayed
there for 84 hours
if they wanted him to.
529
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:27,680
Andy, he wasn't too bright.
You know?
530
00:37:27,810 --> 00:37:30,370
But you could talk him into
saying he raped his own mother.
531
00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:35,470
I wanna be careful with my
words, 'cause the police
were just doing their job.
532
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,250
But basically, they played him.
533
00:37:39,950 --> 00:37:41,910
[Silvia] I asked him
to close his eyes,
534
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,000
and I said,
"You know what I see, Andy?
535
00:37:45,130 --> 00:37:49,040
I see you killing Barbara."
536
00:37:49,170 --> 00:37:51,570
And that's when he said,
you know,
537
00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:53,480
"I can see it too.
538
00:37:53,610 --> 00:37:57,400
I can see in my mind
where this body is."
539
00:37:57,530 --> 00:37:58,970
He wanted to take us there.
540
00:37:59,100 --> 00:38:00,970
Obviously, we did that.
541
00:38:01,100 --> 00:38:04,020
[Fitzgerald] When Andy wanted
to go to the scene
542
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:07,240
of where Barbara Raposa
had been killed,
543
00:38:07,370 --> 00:38:10,630
we took him to the scene
down there. It was a very,
very cold day.
544
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,240
And that's when he said, uh,
545
00:38:13,370 --> 00:38:15,590
talking about
having had his dream
546
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:20,250
and seeing her smashed
in the face and killed.
547
00:38:20,380 --> 00:38:25,340
He claimed that he saw
her murder in a vision.
548
00:38:25,470 --> 00:38:29,910
He's in a tree or he's hovering
above the murder scene.
549
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:35,180
And he is witnessing that,
as if he is clairvoyant.
550
00:38:35,310 --> 00:38:38,180
They turn it around against him.
551
00:38:38,310 --> 00:38:40,840
And also because he had a dream.
552
00:38:40,970 --> 00:38:45,190
What, you mean to tell me
if I had a dream last night
553
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,890
that God showed me something
in a dream, which He does speak
to people through dreams...
554
00:38:50,020 --> 00:38:52,150
Don't happen often,
but it does happen.
555
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,720
That's in His word. I'm not God,
but that's His word.
556
00:38:57,900 --> 00:38:59,980
[Macy] I never
considered it a confession.
557
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,680
I don't consider it
a confession now.
558
00:39:02,810 --> 00:39:06,340
[Silvia] We finally
arrested Andy Maltais.
559
00:39:13,350 --> 00:39:15,960
[Maltais] My dad was my best
friend. I was looking for him.
560
00:39:16,090 --> 00:39:18,870
We had stayed
in constant contact.
561
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,570
You know, I was 19 years old.
562
00:39:21,700 --> 00:39:24,970
And we had plans to hook up
563
00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:28,010
and meet each other
in Fall River.
564
00:39:28,140 --> 00:39:32,800
Well, I went to go meet him,
and he was nowhere to be found.
565
00:39:36,460 --> 00:39:38,890
That's when I found out
that they arrested him.
566
00:39:41,940 --> 00:39:44,860
They arrested him.
I said, "What do you mean
they arrested him?"
567
00:39:46,900 --> 00:39:48,690
"They arrested him for murder."
568
00:39:48,820 --> 00:39:50,770
I said, "You people
are out of your mind!
569
00:39:52,340 --> 00:39:55,340
He didn't kill anybody."
570
00:39:55,480 --> 00:40:01,050
And after Andy admitted to it,
Robin came through
with the full story.
571
00:40:01,180 --> 00:40:06,010
[Murphy] Andy told me that
Barbara was laying dead
somewhere in the woods.
572
00:40:06,140 --> 00:40:09,580
And of course, I told him no,
she's probably just running away
from you.
573
00:40:09,710 --> 00:40:12,270
He said, "No.
574
00:40:12,410 --> 00:40:15,410
She is laying in the woods."
575
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,980
[Murphy] Andy Maltais
told me a story
576
00:40:23,110 --> 00:40:24,810
that angels carried him
over Barbara
577
00:40:24,940 --> 00:40:26,770
while she was being murdered.
578
00:40:26,900 --> 00:40:28,640
He said that Barbara
was bludgeoned to death
579
00:40:28,770 --> 00:40:31,080
before she was found.
580
00:40:31,210 --> 00:40:34,250
That angels carried him over,
she was in a wooded area,
581
00:40:34,380 --> 00:40:37,780
that she was tied up
and beaten to death with a rock.
582
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:40,080
When I told the police that,
583
00:40:40,220 --> 00:40:44,090
they said he had told them
the same story.
584
00:40:44,220 --> 00:40:48,090
I said, "Well, if I was there,
if I was in the car with him,
is that good?
585
00:40:48,220 --> 00:40:50,830
Does that pick him up?"
586
00:40:50,970 --> 00:40:53,920
And it did.
587
00:40:54,060 --> 00:40:58,840
She turned around and said that
she was in the car with Barbara
and Andy.
588
00:40:58,970 --> 00:41:01,500
[Macy] Andy's statements
didn't help him.
589
00:41:01,630 --> 00:41:04,500
Without Robin Murphy, they
wouldn't have had a case at all.
590
00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:07,110
I thought she was lying
from the first day I met her.
591
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:09,980
But I could never get her
into a position
592
00:41:10,110 --> 00:41:13,120
where she was so contradictory
593
00:41:13,250 --> 00:41:15,290
that it was obvious
she was lying.
594
00:41:15,420 --> 00:41:19,040
Andy Maltais' lawyer asked me
if I lied about Andy
595
00:41:19,170 --> 00:41:22,080
because of what he did to me
when I was a kid.
596
00:41:22,210 --> 00:41:25,870
I didn't say he
murdered Barbara
597
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,960
because of what he did to me.
598
00:41:29,090 --> 00:41:31,880
But so that he couldn't
do it to anyone else.
599
00:41:33,790 --> 00:41:35,620
And it worked.
600
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,720
[Boyle] Her coming forward
was definitely
601
00:41:50,850 --> 00:41:53,160
a way of... of fighting back
602
00:41:53,290 --> 00:41:56,160
and regaining some power
in her life.
603
00:41:56,290 --> 00:41:59,860
Andy Maltais abused her,
604
00:41:59,990 --> 00:42:03,040
ruined her life, hurt her,
605
00:42:03,170 --> 00:42:07,820
physically, emotionally,
mentally.
606
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,520
Andy Maltais, he should
have been castrated.
607
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,570
He should have been castrated.
608
00:42:16,270 --> 00:42:18,970
This is the site where the state
says Andre Maltais
609
00:42:19,100 --> 00:42:21,230
beat Barbara Raposa to death
with a rock
610
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,970
back in November of 1979.
611
00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:29,240
[Murphy] The police took me
to where she was found
612
00:42:29,370 --> 00:42:32,940
and basically said,
"So, the car came in this way.
613
00:42:33,070 --> 00:42:34,290
You remember
this bump over here?"
614
00:42:34,420 --> 00:42:36,850
And I just, you know,
"Yep, yep."
615
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,040
[Macy] Robin,
she was very smart.
616
00:42:47,170 --> 00:42:49,210
The best witness I ever saw.
617
00:42:49,340 --> 00:42:52,830
I used to be
a very good storyteller.
618
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:57,530
And it got my needs met.
619
00:42:57,660 --> 00:42:59,530
[Macy] She had gone over
the transcript.
620
00:42:59,660 --> 00:43:02,140
She had figured out
what I was doing.
621
00:43:02,270 --> 00:43:05,230
She was a very,
very smart witness.
622
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:10,800
[Maltais] We watched him
go in and out of the courthouse
in a wheelchair.
623
00:43:10,930 --> 00:43:12,800
Because through all of this,
he had a stroke.
624
00:43:12,930 --> 00:43:14,630
He had three strokes.
625
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,160
The third one caused his whole
left side to shut down,
626
00:43:18,290 --> 00:43:19,900
so he barely could walk.
627
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:28,210
He had strange sexual
proclivities, shall we say.
628
00:43:28,340 --> 00:43:32,080
And the prosecution
felt that they really needed
629
00:43:32,210 --> 00:43:37,090
to introduce some of this
equipment in the trial.
630
00:43:37,220 --> 00:43:42,480
[Silvia] Andy Maltais talked
about a bag of tricks
that he had.
631
00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:45,530
A bag of tricks,
all sexual items that he used,
632
00:43:45,660 --> 00:43:49,100
vibrators and rope
and handcuffs.
633
00:43:49,230 --> 00:43:52,540
Gags.
634
00:43:52,670 --> 00:43:57,460
We had court stenographers.
We had little old ladies
in the back row.
635
00:43:57,590 --> 00:44:00,020
And they were shocked.
636
00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:05,380
I know at the trial,
Robin claimed
637
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:08,640
Maltais had molested her
when she was a child.
638
00:44:08,770 --> 00:44:12,690
[Charigbliss] Andy Maltais,
I don't know whether
he saw it as wrong.
639
00:44:12,820 --> 00:44:16,650
I think he knew it was wrong,
but it was a wrong
that he could accept.
640
00:44:16,780 --> 00:44:22,130
It's not a wrong that you
or I would accept or most
normal people would accept.
641
00:44:22,260 --> 00:44:25,050
But he was like, "Oh, yeah.
I did that."
642
00:44:25,180 --> 00:44:27,790
And he seemed detached.
643
00:44:28,970 --> 00:44:31,100
His general demeanor
644
00:44:31,230 --> 00:44:35,580
was just almost accepting
of his own behavior.
645
00:44:35,710 --> 00:44:39,190
You know, he didn't see
the world the way you and I do.
646
00:44:41,460 --> 00:44:45,810
It was disturbing to me
to watch a man...
647
00:44:47,380 --> 00:44:49,330
try and make sense of his life.
648
00:44:49,460 --> 00:44:50,420
And he couldn't.
649
00:44:50,550 --> 00:44:53,340
He just couldn't.
650
00:44:53,470 --> 00:44:54,860
It's kind of pathetic.
651
00:45:00,740 --> 00:45:05,090
[Silvia] Andy ended up
in state prison
for the mentally impaired
652
00:45:05,220 --> 00:45:08,310
and died later of a stroke.
653
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,140
[Maltais] He always tried
to be strong for us kids.
654
00:45:12,270 --> 00:45:15,450
But you could
see the brokenness.
655
00:45:15,580 --> 00:45:18,010
You could see the suffering
in him.
656
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,980
Did you ever meet Andy Maltais
before all this happened?
657
00:45:34,030 --> 00:45:35,120
[director] Yeah.
658
00:45:40,990 --> 00:45:44,260
♪♪♪
659
00:45:58,270 --> 00:46:01,580
[Boyle] Robin Murphy, you
have her as the key witness
660
00:46:01,710 --> 00:46:04,370
in a homicide case.
661
00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:08,060
And now you have, you know,
the Karen Marsden murder.
662
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,030
Uh...
663
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:11,080
On February 8th,
664
00:47:11,210 --> 00:47:12,480
uh, Karen and I
were out together.
665
00:47:12,610 --> 00:47:15,310
We parted ways.
666
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,130
Um...
667
00:47:18,270 --> 00:47:21,530
I went to Maureen
Sparda's house, aka Sonny.
668
00:47:21,660 --> 00:47:23,400
-[woman] Uh-huh.
-Um...
669
00:47:23,530 --> 00:47:26,190
My intent that night
was to cheat on Karen,
670
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,490
uh, with Maureen Sparda.
671
00:47:30,630 --> 00:47:35,460
The next day, Karen...
672
00:47:35,590 --> 00:47:37,110
didn't go back
to her grandmother's.
673
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:41,770
Um, and I couldn't
find her anywhere.
674
00:47:41,900 --> 00:47:44,420
I had talked
to the state police.
675
00:47:44,550 --> 00:47:47,120
Um, they couldn't
do anything about it.
676
00:47:47,250 --> 00:47:50,120
[Murphy]
677
00:47:59,390 --> 00:48:01,530
Carl Drew wasn't
getting arrested
678
00:48:01,660 --> 00:48:05,180
for murdering the woman
who said he was gonna do it.
679
00:48:05,310 --> 00:48:08,490
I really wanted him
to not hurt anybody else.
680
00:48:08,620 --> 00:48:10,190
That's all.
681
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:15,890
[female reporter] Grand jury
murder indictments
were handed down today
682
00:48:16,020 --> 00:48:19,240
for the death of 20-year-old
Karen Marsden.
683
00:48:19,370 --> 00:48:22,110
[Joaquim] Ron Pina was the
district attorney at the time.
684
00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:23,290
I'm sure he was under
a lot of pressure
685
00:48:23,420 --> 00:48:25,510
to get this straightened out.
686
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,340
So he corralled Robin.
687
00:48:29,470 --> 00:48:33,340
We have an individual
who has come forward
and talked to us
688
00:48:33,470 --> 00:48:36,780
and has testified
or spoken to us
689
00:48:36,910 --> 00:48:39,870
and identified exactly what
we feel happened that night.
690
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,520
The night when, uh,
Karen Marsden disappeared.
691
00:48:43,650 --> 00:48:47,530
We finally concocted
a story of how she was killed.
692
00:48:47,660 --> 00:48:49,310
[Murphy]
693
00:48:57,490 --> 00:49:00,320
I mean, here...
here they've got one witness
694
00:49:00,450 --> 00:49:02,590
that they can
make one deal with,
695
00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:07,330
that serves up on
a silver platter two murders.
696
00:49:07,460 --> 00:49:09,940
You know, it solves everything.
697
00:49:11,420 --> 00:49:13,340
[Murphy]
698
00:49:35,230 --> 00:49:38,140
♪♪♪
699
00:49:40,540 --> 00:49:41,630
[Murphy] When they
found the skull,
700
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,670
I went there.
701
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,850
I drove to the scene
with the state trooper.
702
00:49:47,980 --> 00:49:49,850
So I did know the layout.
703
00:49:49,980 --> 00:49:52,380
But not because I had
ever been there before.
704
00:49:52,510 --> 00:49:54,420
[Murphy]
705
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,700
Prosecutors have an obligation
to do justice,
706
00:50:14,830 --> 00:50:16,570
not just get convictions.
707
00:50:16,700 --> 00:50:19,660
But this was a DA who had
708
00:50:19,790 --> 00:50:21,970
a bunch of unsolved murders
on his hands
709
00:50:22,100 --> 00:50:25,370
and who was approaching
an election campaign.
710
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:28,720
And he was far more interested
711
00:50:28,850 --> 00:50:32,240
in answering public outcry
712
00:50:32,370 --> 00:50:34,420
than he was in doing justice.
713
00:50:34,550 --> 00:50:36,810
We were able to determine
that, uh,
714
00:50:36,940 --> 00:50:39,470
there may have been
more than one individual
involved in the crime.
715
00:50:45,950 --> 00:50:48,040
[Murphy]
716
00:51:16,420 --> 00:51:17,590
[Murphy laughs]
717
00:51:46,970 --> 00:51:49,840
Prosecutors in the mid-1980s
718
00:51:49,970 --> 00:51:55,320
who have been exposed
to this satanic ritual narrative
719
00:51:55,460 --> 00:51:58,150
might be a lot more likely
720
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,720
to assume that there's something
devil-y going on there.
721
00:52:02,850 --> 00:52:06,250
The willingness by police
officers and attorneys
722
00:52:06,380 --> 00:52:08,730
to embrace these stories
723
00:52:08,860 --> 00:52:12,470
is rooted in the fact
that many of them
724
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:17,170
were already primed
by a literal Bible belief.
725
00:52:17,300 --> 00:52:22,660
The city of Fall River,
we have like nine Catholic
consecrated churches
726
00:52:22,790 --> 00:52:26,880
in the city, which was
one of the largest anywhere
in the United States.
727
00:52:27,010 --> 00:52:32,140
[Andrews] They had been primed
to believe in a God and a devil.
728
00:52:32,270 --> 00:52:37,150
They would naturally drift
into the narrative that, well,
Satan was behind this.
729
00:52:40,850 --> 00:52:42,680
[Murphy]
730
00:53:05,790 --> 00:53:08,750
[Murphy] I plead guilty
to murder in the second degree.
731
00:53:12,790 --> 00:53:13,920
Kenny Sullivan.
732
00:53:14,060 --> 00:53:17,320
He told me I'll get out
in 12 years.
733
00:53:21,020 --> 00:53:24,280
And I would like it at first
because I'm gay.
734
00:53:24,410 --> 00:53:27,720
But did I think women would
still want me at the age of 50?
735
00:53:30,030 --> 00:53:32,330
So I pled guilty that day.
736
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:36,340
♪♪♪
737
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,610
[McPhee] You have
a 16, 17-year-old girl
738
00:54:31,740 --> 00:54:34,440
who is very articulate
739
00:54:34,570 --> 00:54:38,970
and who can be prompted
to say pretty much anything
that people wanted her to say
740
00:54:39,100 --> 00:54:44,150
in order to have the headlines
that these Fall River satanic
cult murders were solved.
741
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,710
"Nothing to worry about, folks,
we put the people away."
742
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:51,670
[Silvia] Without Robin,
the district attorney
didn't have Carl.
743
00:54:51,810 --> 00:54:54,160
It was almost like
she was the prize
744
00:54:54,290 --> 00:54:56,550
to solve this serious crime
745
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,420
and to put Carl away
at whatever cost.
746
00:55:02,900 --> 00:55:07,650
[McPhee] Robin Murphy looked
a lot different in 1980
than she does today.
747
00:55:07,780 --> 00:55:11,000
In 1980, she looked like
an innocent girl next door.
748
00:55:11,130 --> 00:55:13,390
They intentionally dressed
her up to look that part.
749
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,790
You know, she's wearing little
pleated skirts and, you know,
750
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:22,840
uh, button-up blouses
and her long hair is cascading
over her shoulders
751
00:55:22,970 --> 00:55:28,020
and she's talking about the
horrific abuse she suffered
at the hands of Carl Drew.
752
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:30,630
I mean, who are you
gonna believe?
753
00:55:54,350 --> 00:55:58,050
Just as we have a God, I do
believe that we have a Satan.
754
00:55:58,180 --> 00:56:02,480
And I also believe that good
always overcomes evil.
755
00:56:02,620 --> 00:56:03,960
It's just how I was raised.
756
00:56:04,090 --> 00:56:06,400
You know,
there's a lot of questions,
757
00:56:06,530 --> 00:56:09,750
and they're probably all going
to remain unanswered.
758
00:56:12,890 --> 00:56:15,890
♪♪♪
759
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,650
[indistinct]
760
00:56:44,660 --> 00:56:46,050
All right. A little nervous.
761
00:56:46,180 --> 00:56:49,790
I've never
been on camera before, so...
762
00:56:52,140 --> 00:56:53,880
Um...
763
00:56:54,010 --> 00:56:55,670
once.
764
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,670
I was probably about
maybe ten or 11.
765
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:00,980
My mother's house got raided.
766
00:57:01,110 --> 00:57:03,810
And, um, they had arrested her.
767
00:57:05,370 --> 00:57:06,770
I don't remember
who the cop was,
768
00:57:06,900 --> 00:57:08,990
but I talked to a cop
769
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,080
and I told him about what I saw
and, uh,
770
00:57:12,210 --> 00:57:15,120
I thought it'd get my mother
out of jail.
771
00:57:15,250 --> 00:57:17,730
I don't think
he took me serious.
772
00:57:22,170 --> 00:57:24,170
[coughs]
773
00:57:24,310 --> 00:57:27,180
So when I was probably about,
I don't know, five or six,
774
00:57:27,310 --> 00:57:29,750
I had told my mother that, um...
775
00:57:31,790 --> 00:57:33,920
I had saw these people...
776
00:57:37,270 --> 00:57:39,450
killing... killing a girl.
777
00:57:55,730 --> 00:57:59,040
♪♪♪
68433
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.