All language subtitles for Fall.River.S01E02c

Fall River

it was a rough place.

There were so many girls working the
streets of Fall River at that time.

There were traffic jams on
Friday and Saturday evenings.

Doreen at age 17, she
should be in high school.

Not working the streets.

The brutality of her
murder is chilling.

She was face down. She was
just about completely nude.

She was prostituting
in Fall River.

And the investigation sort
of went in that direction.

That's apparently when
she ran into Carl Drew.

Carl Drew was known as someone

who was on the street
daily, was a pimp.

For some reason, I had a
bad reputation out there

that people knew not to... not to
mess with anything that was mine.

He drugged those girls up.

Carl Drew, did he know me? No.

Did I know who he was? Yes.

Carl Drew used Satanism as a way to
control... to control the women on the street.

They brought her in a room and they tied
her up and they dripped blood all over here.

They had big crosses hung from the
ceiling upside down and everything.

Karen was really
upset with Carl Drew.

She called him the devil. She said
that he was going to kill her.

The police came to my
mother's house and they questioned me.

'Cause Karen was missing.

And at that point we knew
she probably was not missing.

Robin was caught in
the middle of all this.

Robin was only 17
years old at the time.

Robin was also
indicted for murder.

She turned state's evidence.

It has also
been revealed that her murder

was a ritualistic killing
tied to a satanic cult

that exists among prostitutes
and pimps in Fall River.

Robin says that Carl
Drew, the son of Satan,

told them that they had to participate
because they were offering her soul to Satan.

The state police dogs were hitting
on the blood where she was killed

where her throat was
cut and she bled out.

Carl Drew had nothing
to do with these murders.

Everybody knows it.

Everybody.

They came to my house
and they said that

I was being arrested for, uh,

parole violation for
whereabouts unknown.

They didn't handcuff
me or nothing.

And they had me walking down
the stairs in front of them.

I knew something was up.

Back then, you had
15 days to wait

before you got a hearing for
a parole violation and...

And on the 15th day, they
tell me I was going to court.

Grand jury murder
indictments were handed down today

for the death of
20-year-old Karen Marsden.

The next thing I know, I'm
being accused of murder.

Hello, this is
a prepaid collect call from...

An inmate at

Massachusetts Department
of Corrections.

Carl Drew was initially
charged with two murders.

That of Doreen Levesque
and Karen Marsden.

But the prosecution ultimately only
decided to take one of the cases to trial.

And that was the murder
of Karen Marsden.

The investigators and the
prosecution had a weak case.

They had a series of murders,

they didn't really have
any forensic evidence

that tied Carl Drew to
either of these murders.

And they decided that the
Levesque case was so weak

that they would rather put
that into evidence against him

without having to go through
the process of trying him

and maybe having him
acquitted on that case.

They tried me for
the Karen Marsden case.

They used the Doreen Levesque case as
a motive for me killing Karen Marsden.

They're sitting there saying the
reason I killed Karen Marsden

is 'cause she witnessed me
killing Doreen Levesque.

Unfortunately, there
is this prior bad acts doctrine

which allows evidence
of prior bad acts

to come into evidence simply if it shows
motive or a consistent course of conduct.

Even though there's not been a
trial on those prior charges.

The thinking was that
Doreen was killed because

she wouldn't work for Carl Drew.

And no one tells
Carl Drew, "No."

Doreen Levesque, she was a
nice girl and I would say...

You wouldn't think
that she was underage.

But then I found out that
she was only 17 at the time.

And I wouldn't have
nothing to do with her.

That's not true.

He knew Doreen, she
was working the street.

He had intimidated her, he told
her not to work the street.

We had talked to so many
young ladies on the street.

And we had some
great informants.

Alan Silvia pulled me in the police
department and, you know what I mean,

asked me if I knew anything about
Doreen Levesque and all that stuff.

And at first, I didn't... I
didn't even realize who she was.

Spent very little
time questioning Carl Drew.

But he also wasn't someone that we
went to on the street to talk to.

Well, that night that she was
supposed to have been killed,

I was at my stepmother,
who was getting married.

And it was like a gay wedding.

And I was there at the wedding.

I had photos of me there.

There were many aspects
that corroborated.

Carl's innocence story

that had been omitted or
trampled under at trial.

Carl, uh, had a grossly
inexperienced attorney defending him.

John Birkness was assigned
to Carl for the murder trial.

He was a nice man, but I don't think he
should have been given that assignment.

John Birkness, he had never
worked a murder case before.

And after Carl's case, he
never worked another one again.

So, you know, right from the
get-go, he pretty much just

got railroaded every which way.

There were these four people

who claimed to have witnessed
Karen Marsden's murder.

Robin Murphy, Carol Fletcher,

Willie Smith, and Carl Davis.

The two men were charged and the
two women were given immunity deals

to testify against the men.

They were all connected.
They all knew each other.

They were all
working the streets.

And all that shit.

Robin
and Carol Fletcher.

They were the witnesses
that were at the scene.

The deal with Carol Fletcher was an
easy one for the prosecution to make.

Because she was there,
she witnessed it,

but she was not involved
with the actual killing.

She was one of these little
girls, what they call a barfly.

You know what I mean? She would do tricks
for draft beers and all that stuff.

Robin, that was a little
bit more problematic.

We first heard about
Robin Murphy from the police.

And it was a very different
person that they trotted

into court some months later.

She came in with her little Peter Pan
collar and a gold cross on her neck.

And she looked like butter
wouldn't melt in her mouth.

Robin looked like the girl
next door when she was cleaned up.

So putting her before a jury
was better for the prosecution.

The DA's office gave her
a deal for her star testimony.

She was given
second-degree murder.

In Massachusetts, second-degree
murder, there's eligibility for parole.

First-degree murder, there's
no eligibility for parole.

So if you could stand, Miss
Murphy, as well as anyone here in the room

who is here to give testimony,

stand and raise
their right hand.

Robin Murphy and
Karen Marsden were pinpointed

at the home of the foster
parents of Karen Marsden's child

between 7:45 and 8:30 at night.

Robin Murphy showed up
at her home in Fall River

shortly before 10:00.

So that leaves a less
than two hour window.

They allegedly hitchhiked
to downtown Fall River,

which would have taken
at least 20 minutes.

They were threatened by
Carl and several people

who allegedly were involved
in the murder scene.

They drove, uh,

a half an hour from Fall
River to this woods.

That's where they
dragged her out of the car,

ripped her hair out,
punched her in the face,

ripped all her
clothes off of her.

Robin Murphy actually
killed Karen Marsden.

But she says that she
did it because Carl Drew,

who was present, made her do
it and she feared for her life.

She probably told
the truth whenever she could.

But if it wasn't convenient,
then we'd tell a lie.

I think you have to find
that she was at the scene

and that she knows a good
deal more than she's telling

because lawyers are asking
very specific questions

to get at the
information they want.

That doesn't necessarily paint an
honest picture of what happened.

They drove half an hour
from Fall River to this woods,

half an hour each way.

And they spent 60 to 90 minutes

doing this ritual murder,

after which they claimed
they burned the body,

and it took a long time
for that body to burn.

So that's about three to
four hours worth of activity

that couldn't have taken
place in the two hours.

Do I
think she was a liar?

Yes.

They're saying that I did this.

That I cut the poor girl's
head off and all that stuff.

The easiest story
to remember is the truth.

When you make up a story,

you have no memory to go back
to when you retell that story.

If the first story's made up,

every single time you tell that
story you're gonna screw it up.

You're gonna tell
it differently.

Every time
Robin told the story,

there would be some little differences,
there'd be changes in the story.

And as a result, that
complicated the investigation.

And that could have posed a
really serious, serious problem

for the prosecution.

That's why Carol became such a
really key element in the case.

Carol was a friend
of Robin Murphy and Karen.

She was another prostitute.

We spoke to her several times.

And she, you know,

did admit that she
had been there,

that it was her rental car that they had
used to drive Karen down to Westport.

And she told us the whole
story of when it happened.

There wasn't any
cross-examination

that you would expect a
real trained attorney...

This is a murder case now.

We did get
the rental car that Carol

had driven with that
group that night

and had it tested by the state
police crime lab for blood.

Never found any blood.

Carl's alibi was that he
had been in a particular bar

and had spoken with a particular
bartender that he knew well

and several other associates
in that bar on that night,

and had several people who
could corroborate each other.

On February
8th, a Friday,

and Friday nights is one
of the busiest nights,

we were on the pier.

The lawyer got
money to hire an investigator

and tasked the investigator to go out
and interview the alibi witnesses.

And what happened was that
Birkness didn't bother

to talk to the investigator

until he checked in
with him a year later.

And when he checked in with him, he
found out that the investigator had died.

So he hired a new investigator

to go back to these
witnesses and say to them,

"Do you remember a year ago,
when Carl Drew was with you

between this time and that time
on the night of the murder?"

I mean, good luck.

I guess what you could say would probably
amount to forensic evidence back then

is there was a ring on the
finger of Karen Marsden.

And this girl named Leah Johnson
was given the ring by Carl Drew.

Leah Johnson was
Carl Drew's girlfriend.

And she had some of the
possessions, at least a ring,

for sure, of Karen Marsden.

And she received
it the same day,

the day after Karen's death.

Well, we...

And she brought the ring to the state police
and said, "Carl Drew gave me this ring.

I think it's Karen's."

And then Karen's mother
went on the stand and said,

"Yeah, that's my
daughter's ring."

So how did
Carl get the ring

when Karen was wearing it the
night that she was murdered?

The ring placed Carl at
the scene of the homicide.

That's pretty solid.

If it's in fact true.

Leah Johnson,

also alleged to be a
confession witness,

who Carl Drew
allegedly described

a dream that he had in which

there was a satanic murder ritual in the
woods of, uh, the victim, but only as a dream.

But none of this
satanic ritual evidence

had to do with Karen
Marsden's murder.

It was just sort of coloring.

There is long been a tendency
for generations to freak out

about the fact that we
are all in moral decline.

I'd like to begin with a fact.

A simple yet shocking fact.

That a moral decay is spreading
through our country...

The world's going straight
to hell in a handbasket.

And they say that we have a moral decline
and that the families are breaking up

and there's a drug plague
and we're going to lose.

The satanic panic was this time.
It was the 1980s to about 1995

where there was a moral panic
happening all across the United States.

And they were kicking over every
rock looking for the devil.

Alpine police
say five young Alpine men

are accused of conducting
satanic rituals.

Friday morning, we had
a call at the Catholic church.

When I arrived, I
noticed two pentagrams

and an inverted cross.

The Puritans absolutely
believed in a material Satan

who worked on people's bodies.

But that Satan goes away
for, like, 200 years

and then shows back
up in the 1980s.

Police take
away boxes full of bones

and satanic paraphernalia.

The root to the satanic panic actually
leaned back into the mid-20th century.

That was the time when we were sort
of head-to-head against Russia.

In this Cold War, perhaps
even more than in a normal war,

understanding the communist
enemy is terribly important.

They're traitors to America. Why
don't we do something about it!

They are enemies! They
are not Americans!

A way for the United States
to position itself as morally superior

was to align ourselves with God.

Our Constitution
was written by men

who put their trust in God.

Christian equals us versus everybody
else who doesn't believe in God is evil.

So the USSR became satanic.

And we began to incorporate
"in God we trust"

into the national conversation.

We saw televangelists
like Billy Graham

waltzing in and out
of the White House.

To lead America to
the dawning of a new day,

with renewed trust in God...

If you have a culture that's
primed to believe that stuff,

all it takes is one spark
and you've got panic.

In 1980, there was a book that
came out called Michelle Remembers.

And it was about this woman who had
apparently had repressed memories

of her childhood and being
ritually abused by Satanists.

And this was extracted
by her psychiatrist.

And they published
together this book.

Over the
course of several months,

Pazder hypnotized Michelle.

I'm going to count
backwards from ten to one.

And strongly, strongly encouraged
her to recover memories

of having been ritually
abused by her mother

and a group of local
Satan worshippers.

The Virgin Mary
literally appears to her

and encourages Michelle to go
forth and basically warn people

that Satan is coming and
we're all in grave danger.

That book propelled

a decade and a half of
fear and paranoia and panic

and the ruining of lives all
across the United States.

Whether Satan exists
is a matter of belief.

But we are certain
that Satanism exists.

To some it's a religion. To
others it's the practice of evil

in the devil's name.

It exists and is flourishing.

What Ruth saw
when she followed them inside

would later be locked
away to reappear only

for a psychiatrist during
a hypnosis session.

There are absolutely
people in the mid-1980s

who are like, "Actual Satan is working through
people and Satan is coming for our kids"

"and working through our local officials
and possibly our law enforcement," whatever.

Ruth tells
of a room with an altar,

a table with a black cloth on it
and a big book and lots of candles.

On the table is her daughter who's being
sexually fondled by most of the men.

I want it to stop.

My mother
keeps her door locked

during the daytime and she
used to didn't do that.

And then... and most people just,
you know, taking precautions.

It's like anything else.

Once it hits the news media,

you got a hundred
people calling you.

Detective Alan
Alves of the Freetown Police

is an expert on satanic cults.

Some of them are
way off and stuff like that.

Some you looked into and they
turned out to be factual.

Other parts of the country,
there's human sacrifice.

Uh, we don't wanna
see any of that.

Our investigation went way up

even to government
officials and so forth.

The willingness by
police officers and attorneys

and even people in the
mental health profession

to embrace these stories
is rooted in the fact

that if you are one of the people
who's in a moral panic about the devil,

you will see patterns which
to you are warning signs

that the devil is there.

The question is, is
there a well-organized plot,

an insidious design right now to program
and influence the minds of our children

towards the occult
and witchcraft?

Yes, there's a vast movement toward the
occult within the cartoon and toy industry.

Eighty percent of all cartoons
deal directly with the occult.

Smurfs representing
animated dead people.

My Little Pony was satanic.

Uh, Rainbow Brite,

the rainbow was a symbol
of the New World Order

and she had an upside-down
pentagram branded on her face.

So if the cartoon says that a
character has occult powers,

then when the child
plays with the toy,

he is going to use
that toy to cast spells

or do whatever the toy
does in the cartoon,

and they imagine themselves
with these occult powers.

There was all kind
of dolls with the eye cut out

because they give the children
drugs and everything else

when they were molesting
them and so forth.

There is great utility in
othering somebody else.

So if I disagree with
you, that's one thing.

But if you are of the
devil, if you're demonic,

if you're evil,

well, now, you know, everything
goes to a whole other level.

That is what $10,000
worth of burning records looks like.

The Bible says what
the standards should be

for morality, for a young
person or for any person.

And the rock groups go
against what the Bible say.

What out of all of those satanic
stories could you ever put your finger on and say,

"There's proof."

There is no proof.

It's what anybody believes
at any given moment.

There are some very obvious ritualistic
markings that will appear on a body

that is the result
of satanic killings.

There's often times a cut
that goes from behind the ear

all the way down to the throat.

Another thing that is often times
done in ritualistic homicides

is a penis is placed inside the
mouth of the deceased person.

I think everybody was starting
to realize, you know, this

this doesn't make
a lot of sense.

The
case appeared to crumble

and the charges against
all the men were dropped.

Uh... no, it wasn't.

No, it wasn't.

It was crushed.

You know, I'm not saying that
no one ever did a heinous deed

in the name of the devil because
they believed in a literal Satan.

But in the larger picture against
the backdrop of the satanic panic,

you know, almost all
of the accusations made

that Satan was
supposedly behind,

all of those just vanished,
they dissolved, they fell apart.

There was nothing to them.

Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, because a lot of important
people are involved in it.

I don't wanna sound
like a... um

"conspiry" theorist, you know.

A lot of important people
were involved, you know?

I... even today.

Q is about
getting to the truth

by educating people about the
truth about what's really going on.

They take children and they
sacrifice these children.

It's part of Satanism.

The satanic panic
continues today.

- It's evil!
- QAnon,

there's a vast satanic conspiracy
of Democratic pedophiles

trying to take over the
world. I mean, that's...

That is straight-up
satanic panic.

My fellow Americans,

I stand here with all
the feelings I do,

disgusted with this lie

that Biden has been chosen.

This is now our greatest
fight since the Civil War.

The battle of
righteousness versus Satan.

Yes, Satan.

Because these leftists are evil.

They're doctors, they're
lawyers, police officers

and stuff molesting kids
and everything else.

They shut it down, uh

- The Attorney
General's office.

Yeah, yes it is. Yeah.

Yeah.

People
romanticize this case.

They are looking at it as
this is this satanic cult

that's worshipping in
the Freetown State Forest

and they're, you know, killing
babies and cats and dogs and sheep

and whatever and they've got
altars hidden deep into the woods.

And that's not what
this case was about.

The things that were let into
evidence of satanic worshipping and stuff,

I mean, come on.

Why was that even let in?

It's just a bunch of bullshit.

I wasn't brought up
in a religious family.

I never studied any
kind of religion.

My religion back then was women.

I just loved being around women.

I'm not saying that Carl Drew

necessarily participated
in these murders, but

I think it's impossible

to control women to the
degree in which he did

without some sort
of fear of violence.

It was a short time the jurors
were out, the next thing I know,

you know, I'm being called out there and
was standing up in front of the jury.

And I stood there and says,
"Guilty of first-degree murder."

And I'm in the shock of my life.

Carl Drew was sentenced
for all of his natural life.

To be imprisoned.

After Carl had a trial,

the other people he was charged
with in the same series of events,

their charges were dismissed.

If Massachusetts had the death penalty, this
would have been a death penalty eligible case.

Uh, undeniably. In fact, the death penalty
had just been eradicated right before.

So if Massachusetts was a
different sort of state,

Carl Drew would
be dead right now.

Carl is in prison for one case,

Karen Marsden's case.

The Doreen Levesque
case is open.

It's unsolved.

I knew Paul Carey.

He was a former police
detective sergeant.

And he was a friend of my dad's.

Paul Carey,
we were very close.

I worked with him for

probably six of my 19 years

in major crimes division.

He participated in
the investigation

every step of the
way, along with myself

and Detective Joaquim.

I mean, it was a night
detective division.

The day guys, I wasn't in
charge of nothing in the day.

That was just the sergeant.
Detective sergeant.

But they asked me if I would take
over the night detective division.

And I said I would.

Alan and I worked
nights, and eventually

Paul Carey came down

and started working
nights with us.

Nobody worked the case except
me and Alan and Tommy Joaquim.

When I was like 18 or 19,

Paul Carey came by and he
said he'd recently retired.

He had mentioned that he was gonna be teaching
some classes just part-time, you know,

at local colleges or
whatnot, just to stay busy

'cause he didn't want to
sit around doing anything.

And that he was gonna
be a private detective.

So, and I was in community
college at the time.

And he came by and dropped off a couple
of milk crates of the actual trial.

And he said, "Why don't you take a look at
these? Read these. Tell me what you think."

He goes, "Now, just so you know,
all of these cases are my case.

I was the detective sergeant
of the team at the time.

And I just wanna get
to the bottom of it."

He dropped off like
four or five more milk crates

of daily logs, day by day
of what was happening.

And I started with the very first day
of the Doreen Levesque body being found.

And went all the
way until the day

they arrested Carl Drew.

Now, this wasn't like I sat down
casually, while watching Wheel of Fortune.

We're talking a
lot of stuff here.

He said, "So now
that I'm retired,

it's been my mission for years.

I've known this
guy's been innocent.

I just couldn't prove it while I
was still a part of the department."

Paul told me that he would go to
the jail to meet with Carl quite often.

Which was a shock to me.

Until the day that Paul
died and passed away,

he's always believed
in my innocence.

He wanted
to speak to the

district attorney at the time.

Asked me to speak to
the district attorney

to talk about Carl
Drew's innocence.

I thought it was
all very strange.

I, me, and him. It's all
him. It's all him.

He's an "I" person.
Right? He's an "I" person.

I'm surprised he doesn't have a sore back
from patting himself all the time. You know?

You could tell him I said so.

He's like, "I'd like to
track down everybody from the trial."

Just get the truth. If they all
come back and say, 'You know what?

What I said there was the truth and
he did it, '" he said, "Then, fine."

And he asked me if I
would help him do that.

He said, "You're
good with computers.

You know, here's a list
of names of people.

Can you find them?"

Paul begins a six-year hunt

for Carol Fletcher
and Leah Johnson.

And these were not
easy people to find.

We tracked down
Leah Johnson first.

She was locked up for
drug charges, uh, cocaine.

And so, "Find out when
she's gonna get out."

We were right in front of
the prison when she got out.

And then Paul rolled down
the window and he goes,

"Leah!"

And she looked,
she's like, "Yeah?"

Goes, "Come here,
you remember me?"

She looks in, she goes,
"Yeah, you're Paul Carey."

And he goes, "That's right.
You need a ride somewhere?"

She goes, "Well, yeah,
if you wouldn't mind."

Paul had been working on this
for... what, 32, 33 years.

You know, it's chilling to
hear his voice on there.

Go ahead, Chris,
you ask the question.

Did he say
it was Karen's ring?

Leah Johnson said, "Oh, yeah.
You know, the whole ring story?

That's a bullshit story."

Yeah, yeah.

Testimony's supposed
to be voluntary.

And a prosecutor can always say,

"I decided not to charge this
person with this other crime"

and give them immunity in exchange for
their testimony against this person.

Now, telling someone that you're
not gonna send them to prison

if they testify for you
is inherently coercive.

What'd they say
would happen to you?

Who told you that?
Anyone in particular or...?

You say it
definitely wasn't true, Leah.

- They actually showed you that?

Before you went
to court or anything?

- Yeah. I...
- Oh, my God.

And what did they tell
you how it happened?

Oh, my God.
They said that to you?

She signed an
affidavit. She's recorded.

She recants her testimony knowing she
could get in legal trouble for that.

The chances that he
was gonna find these people

was pretty slim, much less
find them still coherent.

Much less find them
willing to testify.

We located
Carol Fletcher.

She was in a shelter
in Baltimore, Maryland.

Me and Paul drove down
there early in the morning.

We left at like four. We got
there probably around lunchtime.

Something like that.

And, uh, and we walked in
there and I asked for Carol.

Today's the
23rd of May, 2003.

I'm at the home of Carol Brooks,
who was Carol Fletcher in 1980.

She's a very
fragile, nervous wreck.

She's got tons of anxiety.
She's on a bunch of medications.

And you can sit and just see when
she's talking in this interview,

I can remember that tape
when you're playing it.

So she really had, uh, she
really put you in fear of Carl Drew?

She's just saying, you know,

he wasn't there.

Now, you were
never a Carl Drew fan,

so you have no reason
to tell me a story

that he wasn't there, the
only reason you're telling me

is because he wasn't
there, I assume.

This was a long process. It took
some time to get her to open up.

After, you know, many pots
of coffee and many donuts...

Carol finally broke.

You were driving around, Carol, on
February the 8th, around whatever time it was?

Did you go anywhere
then? Or did you just, uh...

She said that to you?

She... but she
didn't say who it was?

Or who was there?

She told you that?

What kind of car was it?

A green Duster. Yeah.

Um...

And then
what did you do?

She said, this is
what really happened,

was that Karen was coerced onto
the roof of Harbor Terrace,

Carl wasn't even there, it
never happened in the woods.

It was on the roof
of Harbor Terrace,

which blew us away. We
had no idea about it.

How was
Karen? Was she...

Yeah, she was crying, huh?

Robin pulled out a knife,
grabbed her by the hair,

pulled out a knife.

You saw what you saw...

You don't know whether
she was killed,

but you saw what you
saw and you left?

- Right.
- On the roof?

You saw her pulling
the hair out?

The knife
and, uh, and you left?

The revelation that we got from Carol
that no one had ever gotten before

was that Carol witnessed

Robin Murphy killing
Karen Marsden.

Or she was right nearby
when it happened.

Robin Murphy actually
killed Karen Marsden.

The DA's office made a mistake.

Here was finally
independent evidence

that Murphy had killed Marsden
without Carl Drew being present.

She beat the Fall River police
department, she got away with murders,

then she went over their heads and
went directly to the prosecutor.

Robin
masterminded all of this.

I say she's the
mastermind? Yeah, she was.

At 17 years old, she was able to
convince the district attorney

and the courts Carl
was gonna kill her,

and that she had no choice but to
testify against Carl for what he did.

You know, you have to
give credit to Robin Murphy.

You know, the only thing you can
say is that she's a lot smarter

than all the fucking people
involved in the case.

I filed the motion for
new trial in September of 2003.

But in May of 2004,

Robin Murphy came up for parole.

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony
that you give to the Massachusetts parole...

Detective Sergeant Paul
Carey never really thought

talking to Robin was
gonna be beneficial.

Because Robin is a manipulator.

She was up for parole soon.
She's not gonna tell on herself.

Robin Murphy manipulated them.

She committed these crimes.

Robin Murphy came before
the state parole board

and admitted to them
that she had lied.

And also, she denied
killing anybody.

It was a really
alarming parole hearing.

And the parole
board member said,

"Hold on, hold on.

Let me get this straight.
You're saying that you lied?

Do you not have any
remorse for this?"

She made up this whole
story about Carl.

It was... it was all bullshit.

All bullshit.

If Carl had the opportunity

to testify against Robin,

I think he would have.

He could have done that,

if he was given the same offer.

But he wasn't.

After listening
to her testimony,

the parole board, the
state parole board,

paroled her.

They believed her enough to put her back
on the street after she'd pled guilty.

She beat the parole board by
saying, "I'm a changed person.

I'm gonna be a good
girl, I promise."

And she was able to get out again, even
though they knew she had changed her story.

I tried to speak to
Robin. I went to her house.

I reached out to her attorney.

She steadfastly
refused to speak to me.

I think I got her
on the phone once.

And she called me a liar.

She hasn't told her story.
You know, it's funny,

I kind of lost track of Robin Murphy
shortly after she was released.

And I was really hoping
they'd put her back in prison.

Robin was finally granted parole
in early 2000. She was released.

She was out for about
seven years, till 2011.

She'd got into a relationship
with a... another felon.

And, unfortunately, that
violated her parole conditions.

Miss Murphy, you pled
guilty and you were committed,

uh, on a second-degree
life sentence

as a result of your plea?

Yes, sir.

Uh, since that time, you
were paroled in 2004.

- Correct?
- Yes, sir.

- You're now back on a revocation?
- Yes, sir.

- Of that parole? Okay.
- Yes, sir.

My regret
in all that is

no one will ever find
out what really happened.

Because what I said has
now become what happened.

So the real story won't
really never come out.

Hello, this
is a prepaid collect call.

- How you feeling?
- Exhausted.

- Yeah.
- Yeah.

I like how you know
a lot of pieces

and it seems like no one else
ever put any of that together.

- I don't know that...
- I just find it amazing.

That's crazy.

I tried really hard numerous
times to tell the truth.

No one cares.

I wish that people really
knew what really happened.