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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,066 --> 00:00:03,673 [clock ticking] 2 00:00:11,578 --> 00:00:15,547 [music] 3 00:00:15,548 --> 00:00:17,383 DAVID WOJNAROWICZ: Testing one, two, three. 4 00:00:17,384 --> 00:00:19,351 Testing one, Mo. 5 00:00:19,352 --> 00:00:21,487 Testing, testing, testing, testing, 6 00:00:21,488 --> 00:00:25,300 testing, test, test, test. 7 00:00:38,271 --> 00:00:41,273 DAVID: We rise to greet the State, 8 00:00:41,274 --> 00:00:43,754 to confront the State. 9 00:00:48,114 --> 00:00:52,384 When I was diagnosed with this virus, 10 00:00:52,385 --> 00:00:54,219 it didn't take me long to realize 11 00:00:54,220 --> 00:00:56,359 I'd contracted a diseased society as web'. 12 00:01:02,195 --> 00:01:03,695 [static sound] 13 00:01:03,696 --> 00:01:07,473 [music] 14 00:01:12,672 --> 00:01:14,373 DAVID: It could be construed as critical, 15 00:01:14,374 --> 00:01:16,308 but ix' you're doing a show of AIDS, 16 00:01:16,309 --> 00:01:18,243 there's absolutely no way that you can separate 17 00:01:18,244 --> 00:01:19,812 politics from AIDS. 18 00:01:19,813 --> 00:01:21,180 TV REPORTER: For six years, what's happening 19 00:01:21,181 --> 00:01:22,781 is we update our top stories. 20 00:01:22,782 --> 00:01:25,150 East Germany today took down the Berlin Wall. 21 00:01:25,151 --> 00:01:26,852 Bottom line is I may be dying of AiDS 22 00:01:26,853 --> 00:01:28,487 in America in 1989. 23 00:01:28,488 --> 00:01:30,489 Isn't that political? 24 00:01:30,490 --> 00:01:32,391 I don't have health insurance and that I don't have 25 00:01:32,392 --> 00:01:34,259 economic access to adequate healthcare. 26 00:01:34,260 --> 00:01:36,328 Isn't that political? 27 00:01:36,329 --> 00:01:39,098 And to try to become the subject of AiDS 28 00:01:39,099 --> 00:01:43,602 and not have a political tinge to it is ridiculous. 29 00:01:43,603 --> 00:01:45,437 PHIL ZWICKLER: Who was that? 30 00:01:45,438 --> 00:01:47,439 John McKenzie is putting this up together 31 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,142 tor Peter something ox' World News tonight. 32 00:01:50,143 --> 00:01:51,643 - Peter Jennings? - Yeah. 33 00:01:51,644 --> 00:01:55,180 - You mean like national news? - Yeah. 34 00:01:55,181 --> 00:01:58,283 Oh, shit. 1 didn't-- I should've had that recorded. 35 00:01:58,284 --> 00:01:59,651 Are you recording all ox' this today? 36 00:01:59,652 --> 00:02:01,120 - Yeah. - You're gonna make art 37 00:02:01,121 --> 00:02:02,488 - out of it, huh? - Yup. 38 00:02:02,489 --> 00:02:04,490 TV REPORTER: Tonight in Manhattan, 39 00:02:04,491 --> 00:02:06,258 art exhibit about AIDS is losing a lot ox' federal money 40 00:02:06,259 --> 00:02:08,427 because of what will be shown in the exhibit. 41 00:02:08,428 --> 00:02:10,362 TV REPORTER: The chairman of the NEA states, 42 00:02:10,363 --> 00:02:12,397 โ€œWe find that a large portion of the content 43 00:02:12,398 --> 00:02:15,267 is political rather than artistic in nature." 44 00:02:15,268 --> 00:02:17,236 Some of the content includes criticism 45 00:02:17,237 --> 00:02:19,705 or' Cardinal O'Connor, Senator William Dannemeyer 46 00:02:19,706 --> 00:02:21,874 of California, and Senator Jesse Helms 47 00:02:21,875 --> 00:02:24,743 for their support of the new restrictive law. 48 00:02:24,744 --> 00:02:28,147 Thank you. This weather is certainly no work ox' art. 49 00:02:28,148 --> 00:02:29,615 PHIL: S0 are you gonna do Nightline tonight? 50 00:02:29,616 --> 00:02:33,452 Uh, I somehow just can't see it. Like 1-- 51 00:02:33,453 --> 00:02:35,320 D0 you think you'd throw in a shirt if you did? 52 00:02:35,321 --> 00:02:36,355 Well, that's what I was thinking of already 53 00:02:36,356 --> 00:02:38,157 my wardrobe. 54 00:02:38,158 --> 00:02:41,860 I mean, I--If I did, I might wear a ski mask 55 00:02:41,861 --> 00:02:44,296 and Yd, you know, 56 00:02:44,297 --> 00:02:46,899 carry a bucket ox' gasoline. 57 00:02:46,900 --> 00:02:49,710 From Philadelphia, I'm Terry Gross with Fresh Air. 58 00:02:51,738 --> 00:02:53,639 TERRY". The art ox' David Wojnarowicz 59 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:55,941 has recently been at the center or' controversy 60 00:02:55,942 --> 00:03:00,345 because the subject matter deals with sexuality and AIDS. 61 00:03:00,346 --> 00:03:02,281 Let's talk about how you started making art. 62 00:03:02,282 --> 00:03:04,516 Now, you came from a really rough family background. 63 00:03:04,517 --> 00:03:06,418 Your father abused your mother. 64 00:03:06,419 --> 00:03:08,387 You ended up in an orphanage for a while. 65 00:03:08,388 --> 00:03:10,889 Then your father kidnapped you from the orphanage. 66 00:03:10,890 --> 00:03:13,258 And you've written that you later threw yourself 67 00:03:13,259 --> 00:03:15,594 into sex and you became a hustler for a while. 68 00:03:15,595 --> 00:03:17,429 How did you start making art? 69 00:03:17,430 --> 00:03:19,842 [music] 70 00:03:22,735 --> 00:03:24,970 DAVID: Whatever work I've done, it's always been informed 71 00:03:24,971 --> 00:03:28,540 by what I experienced as an American in this country, 72 00:03:28,541 --> 00:03:30,742 as a homosexual in this country 73 00:03:30,743 --> 00:03:33,912 as a person who's legislated into silence in this country. 74 00:03:33,913 --> 00:03:37,449 One, two, three, four, civil rights or civil war? 75 00:03:37,450 --> 00:03:39,585 I'm not gonna be polite and fuck these people 76 00:03:39,586 --> 00:03:41,553 that want me to be courageous. 77 00:03:41,554 --> 00:03:44,323 There's no expression in that other than silence. 78 00:03:44,324 --> 00:03:46,525 As each T-cell disappears from my body, 79 00:03:46,526 --> 00:03:50,696 it's replaced by 10 pounds of pressure, 10 pounds of rage. 80 00:03:50,697 --> 00:03:52,598 I tried very hard to be normal 81 00:03:52,599 --> 00:03:54,566 and tried very hard to be accepted. 82 00:03:54,567 --> 00:03:56,802 On some level, it's a terrific waste of time. 83 00:03:56,803 --> 00:03:58,804 [static sound] 84 00:03:58,805 --> 00:04:00,539 - MAN: Wojnarowicz? - MAN: Wojnarowicz. 85 00:04:00,540 --> 00:04:01,707 - MAN: Wojnarowicz. - MAN: Wojnarowicz. 86 00:04:01,708 --> 00:04:05,177 DAVID: Fuck you faggot fucker. 87 00:04:05,178 --> 00:04:05,477 DAVID: Fuck you faggot fucker. 88 00:04:05,478 --> 00:04:07,890 [music] 89 00:04:11,651 --> 00:04:13,418 STEVEN WOJNAROWKZZ: David was Mo years younger 90 00:04:13,419 --> 00:04:16,421 than me and Pat was sort ox' the big gift. 91 00:04:16,422 --> 00:04:19,725 r don't remember him ever aspiring to do art, 92 00:04:19,726 --> 00:04:21,526 or to be a doctor, or into lawyer, 93 00:04:21,527 --> 00:04:23,028 or anything else. 94 00:04:23,029 --> 00:04:24,763 I think we were probably too consumed. 95 00:04:24,764 --> 00:04:26,798 We're frying to survive in any given moment 96 00:04:26,799 --> 00:04:30,602 than to be worried about what was going down the road. 97 00:04:30,603 --> 00:04:32,904 Dave and I used to go out in the woods. 98 00:04:32,905 --> 00:04:35,007 We'd get away from my father. 99 00:04:35,008 --> 00:04:37,976 He was horrific when he was drunk. 100 00:04:37,977 --> 00:04:39,411 DAVID: I grew up in a tiny version of hell 101 00:04:39,412 --> 00:04:41,446 called the suburbs. 102 00:04:41,447 --> 00:04:43,749 I had a father who brutalized both his first and second wives 103 00:04:43,750 --> 00:04:45,617 with physical violence. 104 00:04:45,618 --> 00:04:47,552 Any signs ox' life in the family he supported 105 00:04:47,553 --> 00:04:49,888 with his paycheck from his job as a sailor 106 00:04:49,889 --> 00:04:51,823 was met with extreme violence. 107 00:04:51,824 --> 00:04:53,959 In the universe of the - 108 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:55,761 I could think of what it felt like as a five or six-year-old 109 00:04:55,762 --> 00:04:57,562 being dragged down a basement stair, 110 00:04:57,563 --> 00:04:59,998 to have my head and body hit with a dog chain 111 00:04:59,999 --> 00:05:02,401 or somehow a chunk of 2x4. 112 00:05:02,402 --> 00:05:06,405 In my home, one could not laugh, one could not express boredom, 113 00:05:06,406 --> 00:05:10,008 one could not cry, one could not play, one could not explore, 114 00:05:10,009 --> 00:05:11,877 one could not engage in any activity 115 00:05:11,878 --> 00:05:14,846 that showed development or growth that was independent. 116 00:05:14,847 --> 00:05:17,453 [music] 117 00:05:26,592 --> 00:05:28,627 CYNTHIA CARR: I guess life on the streets 118 00:05:28,628 --> 00:05:32,764 got really rough and David ended up in a halfway house. 119 00:05:32,765 --> 00:05:36,501 He had not graduated from high school at that point. 120 00:05:36,502 --> 00:05:38,103 When he finally went back to school 121 00:05:38,104 --> 00:05:40,872 was when he discovered Rimbaud and Genet, 122 00:05:40,873 --> 00:05:44,076 they both are outlaws and rebels. 123 00:05:44,077 --> 00:05:48,413 And he always identified with outsiders his whole life. 124 00:05:48,414 --> 00:05:52,651 And these were the outsider writers. 125 00:05:52,652 --> 00:05:56,429 [cassette recorder clicking] 126 00:05:57,924 --> 00:06:00,892 DAVID: Testing tape journal one, two, three. 127 00:06:00,893 --> 00:06:03,499 [music] 128 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,412 [train chugging] 129 00:06:15,074 --> 00:06:16,675 DAVID: So, it looks like we ended up 130 00:06:16,676 --> 00:06:19,678 in Jamestown, North Dakota. 131 00:06:19,679 --> 00:06:22,681 That's the halfway mark between east and west. 132 00:06:22,682 --> 00:06:25,060 [music] 133 00:06:27,987 --> 00:06:30,756 DAVID: Feels like something out of an old west picture, 134 00:06:30,757 --> 00:06:33,959 dusty roads, old board buildings, 135 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,628 time family houses all around it, 136 00:06:36,629 --> 00:06:41,466 great stretches ox' sky, tong tines ox' trains. 137 00:06:41,467 --> 00:06:44,503 The tracks, when you look at them, they shimmer. 138 00:06:44,504 --> 00:06:47,706 R looks like thousands ox' little animals running across. 139 00:06:47,707 --> 00:06:50,475 Then there's the constant flapping ox' bird wings 140 00:06:50,476 --> 00:06:54,083 like [makes sound] 141 00:06:57,016 --> 00:06:59,851 Occasionally you hear a train whistling miles away 142 00:06:59,852 --> 00:07:03,755 but the trains never seem to get here. 143 00:07:03,756 --> 00:07:07,568 [static sound] 144 00:07:10,163 --> 00:07:13,031 - [cassette tape clicking] - [dog barking] 145 00:07:13,032 --> 00:07:16,501 DAVID: That was - French for, "All right, pinheads, 146 00:07:16,502 --> 00:07:18,503 I 'm just sitting here in my sister's apartment 147 00:07:18,504 --> 00:07:20,505 using her tape recorder, trying to figure out 148 00:07:20,506 --> 00:07:22,441 what the hell to say " 149 00:07:22,442 --> 00:07:26,912 [music] 150 00:07:26,913 --> 00:07:29,448 DAVID: As far as publishing, forget it. 151 00:07:29,449 --> 00:07:31,616 The last woman that I sent the manuscript to, 152 00:07:31,617 --> 00:07:34,453 this woman in Black Sun, Le Soleil Noir, 153 00:07:34,454 --> 00:07:36,521 called me up like after a month and told me 154 00:07:36,522 --> 00:07:38,824 she wanted to return my manuscript. 155 00:07:38,825 --> 00:07:40,692 And she said that the people in the monologues 156 00:07:40,693 --> 00:07:42,794 are wasted lives and was a wasted time 157 00:07:42,795 --> 00:07:44,496 to write about them. 158 00:07:44,497 --> 00:07:46,164 I mean, everything she said 159 00:07:46,165 --> 00:07:49,701 just reinforced my belief ox' its importance. 160 00:07:49,702 --> 00:07:52,170 It's like that. I mean, it's like the galleries, too. 161 00:07:52,171 --> 00:07:54,639 The stuff that I work on takes so long to do 162 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:56,575 that the price that Yd have to ask 163 00:07:56,576 --> 00:07:59,010 ix' I was gonna make a living off is just too much 164 00:07:59,011 --> 00:08:00,812 especially since her taste gravitate 165 00:08:00,813 --> 00:08:04,249 towards what will work in prints. 166 00:08:04,250 --> 00:08:06,117 We been having, like, just tons and tons 167 00:08:06,118 --> 00:08:10,722 ox' dreams ox' America and American road and highways. 168 00:08:10,723 --> 00:08:13,191 I really miss the energy in New York. 169 00:08:13,192 --> 00:08:16,194 Paris gives you a sense ox' strange security, 170 00:08:16,195 --> 00:08:18,129 which does make me happy. 171 00:08:18,130 --> 00:08:20,098 So, I guess, H! say goodbye here. 172 00:08:20,099 --> 00:08:25,099 [speaking French] 173 00:08:25,505 --> 00:08:26,882 Bye-bye. 174 00:08:28,674 --> 00:08:33,078 [airplane engine revving] 175 00:08:33,079 --> 00:08:35,213 [camera shutter clicking] 176 00:08:35,214 --> 00:08:37,582 [police siren wailing] 177 00:08:37,583 --> 00:08:40,051 - [water gushing] - [indistinct chatter] 178 00:08:40,052 --> 00:08:42,053 [girl screams] 179 00:08:42,054 --> 00:08:43,755 [crowd chatter] 180 00:08:43,756 --> 00:08:45,257 [horn honking] 181 00:08:45,258 --> 00:08:46,958 [bell chiming] 182 00:08:46,959 --> 00:08:48,927 [engine revving] 183 00:08:48,928 --> 00:08:50,729 [camera shutter] 184 00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:53,164 DAVID: I 'm just doing a series of photographs 185 00:08:53,165 --> 00:08:55,233 for the Rimbaud in New York. 186 00:08:55,234 --> 00:08:57,135 [music] 187 00:08:57,136 --> 00:08:59,070 DAVID: I got a job in an ad agency 188 00:08:59,071 --> 00:09:00,839 for all ox' Mo and a ha?! weeks, 189 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,541 operating a staff machine 190 00:09:02,542 --> 00:09:04,142 that! ended up doing all my homework. 191 00:09:04,143 --> 00:09:07,955 [music] 192 00:09:10,182 --> 00:09:13,885 DAVID: I start at this face of Arthur Rimbaud glued up 193 00:09:13,886 --> 00:09:18,089 and made a - mask and by riding in subways 194 00:09:18,090 --> 00:09:20,158 wandering all through the warehouses 195 00:09:20,159 --> 00:09:22,264 hustling in Times Square. 196 00:09:24,697 --> 00:09:26,698 DAVID KlEHL: David was taking Rimbaud 197 00:09:26,699 --> 00:09:29,734 through what was his world in New York. 198 00:09:29,735 --> 00:09:31,670 [music] 199 00:09:31,671 --> 00:09:33,872 MAN". - come on, man. Come on. 200 00:09:33,873 --> 00:09:35,307 DAVID: I grew up as a hustler. 201 00:09:35,308 --> 00:09:37,342 I grew up hustling in Times Square 202 00:09:37,343 --> 00:09:40,712 and all sorts of places all around New York. 203 00:09:40,713 --> 00:09:43,023 And then ox' all different descriptions. 204 00:09:48,688 --> 00:09:52,295 [police siren wailing] 205 00:10:01,133 --> 00:10:03,134 By the time I got off the streets 206 00:10:03,135 --> 00:10:06,237 when I was about 17 or 18, I had to turn to making things 207 00:10:06,238 --> 00:10:09,074 because I basically could never find a place 208 00:10:09,075 --> 00:10:12,611 to ever express what! had experienced. 209 00:10:12,612 --> 00:10:14,613 r remember one or' the most emotional experiences 210 00:10:14,614 --> 00:10:18,216 was one day being picked up by this guy who was very creepy 211 00:10:18,217 --> 00:10:20,785 and I remember lying on this dirty bed. 212 00:10:20,786 --> 00:10:22,320 R was one ox' these cheap hotels. 213 00:10:22,321 --> 00:10:25,156 And this guy was sucking my dick, 214 00:10:25,157 --> 00:10:27,759 his mouth was sticky and that he even kissed my leg 215 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,260 and there would be like those gummy 216 00:10:29,261 --> 00:10:31,229 kind ox' stuff on my leg. 217 00:10:31,230 --> 00:10:33,798 And it was all the stuff that I was really repulsed by 218 00:10:33,799 --> 00:10:35,934 and not enough to not have a hard on. 219 00:10:35,935 --> 00:10:37,402 I remember feeling all this 220 00:10:37,403 --> 00:10:38,737 incredible emotion for this guy. 221 00:10:38,738 --> 00:10:40,338 I just felt so sad for him. 222 00:10:40,339 --> 00:10:42,207 At some point, L like, reached under his arms, 223 00:10:42,208 --> 00:10:44,876 and pulled him up to me, and kissed him on the mouth, 224 00:10:44,877 --> 00:10:47,178 which is the thing that I least wanted to do. 225 00:10:47,179 --> 00:10:49,414 He started weeping and just said, 226 00:10:49,415 --> 00:10:52,017 "Nobody's ever done that." And ended up giving me 227 00:10:52,018 --> 00:10:55,220 extra money whatever, which I was quite happy with. 228 00:10:55,221 --> 00:10:59,033 [police siren wailing] 229 00:11:03,429 --> 00:11:05,196 [crowd chatter] 230 00:11:05,197 --> 00:11:06,297 DAVID: It's like a whole experience 231 00:11:06,298 --> 00:11:08,333 living on the streets 232 00:11:08,334 --> 00:11:10,769 when I ran away from home of feeling the world's setup 233 00:11:10,770 --> 00:11:15,240 in such a way that it seems that I 'm constantly working 234 00:11:15,241 --> 00:11:18,943 against it rather than alongside. 235 00:11:18,944 --> 00:11:22,080 [thunder rumbling] 236 00:11:22,081 --> 00:11:23,882 DAVID: Most guys that I meet, 237 00:11:23,883 --> 00:11:25,817 their lives are just so completely different. 238 00:11:25,818 --> 00:11:27,919 You know, there's no real communication 239 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,789 where I can feel totally free in expressing my ideas, 240 00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:33,958 my desires, and my experiences. 241 00:11:33,959 --> 00:11:36,127 My experience as a hustler seems to be 242 00:11:36,128 --> 00:11:38,301 one thing that sits on the back ox' my shoulder. 243 00:11:40,266 --> 00:11:42,267 [horn honking] 244 00:11:42,268 --> 00:11:44,235 FRAN LEBOWITZ: One thing that's incredibly hard to convey 245 00:11:44,236 --> 00:11:47,772 to people is the level of promiscuity of that era. 246 00:11:47,773 --> 00:11:49,240 This is something that's realty hard 247 00:11:49,241 --> 00:11:50,775 to describe to people younger. 248 00:11:50,776 --> 00:11:52,877 We felt sex was good for you. 249 00:11:52,878 --> 00:11:55,180 That what was bad for you is not having sex. 250 00:11:55,181 --> 00:11:57,415 And then what was bad tor you is repression oi' sexuality, 251 00:11:57,416 --> 00:11:59,350 that was bad. 252 00:11:59,351 --> 00:12:02,153 This is before AIDS or before we were aware of AIDS. 253 00:12:02,154 --> 00:12:04,255 [firework explosion] 254 00:12:04,256 --> 00:12:05,857 [man screams] 255 00:12:05,858 --> 00:12:07,292 [police siren wailing] 256 00:12:07,293 --> 00:12:09,360 [indistinct chatter] 257 00:12:09,361 --> 00:12:11,162 RICHARD KERN: I grew up in North Carolina. 258 00:12:11,163 --> 00:12:13,398 And when t first moved to the East Village-- 259 00:12:13,399 --> 00:12:15,333 MAN: Smoke, smoke. 260 00:12:15,334 --> 00:12:17,202 RICHARD: --it was cliche things you see in the movies 261 00:12:17,203 --> 00:12:21,473 ox' drug-dealing places, dealers standing around 262 00:12:21,474 --> 00:12:24,375 selling coke and dope, coke and dope, C&D, C&D. 263 00:12:24,376 --> 00:12:26,177 [gunshot] 264 00:12:26,178 --> 00:12:27,979 [glass breaks] 265 00:12:27,980 --> 00:12:30,215 MAN: - real slow, brother. I said real slow. 266 00:12:30,216 --> 00:12:32,150 - I'll sell that bullshit. - MAN: That is bullshit. 267 00:12:32,151 --> 00:12:33,818 CARLO MCCORMICK: People forget how much the rest 268 00:12:33,819 --> 00:12:35,820 of America hated New York. 269 00:12:35,821 --> 00:12:38,056 We were a bunch of junkies and cocksuckers 270 00:12:38,057 --> 00:12:40,358 as far as America was concerned, and, you know, 271 00:12:40,359 --> 00:12:42,127 there's a real sense of cultural decline. 272 00:12:42,128 --> 00:12:44,929 [music] 273 00:12:44,930 --> 00:12:46,865 CARLO". There had been this huge shift 274 00:12:46,866 --> 00:12:49,901 between the kind of idea/isms of the '60s 275 00:12:49,902 --> 00:12:51,770 and the first Civil Rights Movement, 276 00:12:51,771 --> 00:12:53,371 the anti-war movement. 277 00:12:53,372 --> 00:12:56,474 All these things are derailed by the mid-70s. 278 00:12:56,475 --> 00:12:59,752 And so we were responding to that in different ways. 279 00:13:02,848 --> 00:13:06,951 [crickets chirping] 280 00:13:06,952 --> 00:13:09,187 DAVID: I walked up to the park, and the streets 281 00:13:09,188 --> 00:13:14,159 were completely empty, and traffic was nonexistent. 282 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,029 I had opened up my pants 283 00:13:18,030 --> 00:13:20,031 and I walked up and down the pathways, 284 00:13:20,032 --> 00:13:22,333 and there's just, like, this realty quite 285 00:13:22,334 --> 00:13:25,136 sort of loneliness there. 286 00:13:25,137 --> 00:13:26,838 I mean it felt like it was, like, 287 00:13:26,839 --> 00:13:28,978 you're back where it started from. 288 00:13:31,043 --> 00:13:32,811 We been filled with this sense 289 00:13:32,812 --> 00:13:37,081 of, uh, of anxiousness, 290 00:13:37,082 --> 00:13:41,052 and the fact that I'm 26, I'm thinking about myself 291 00:13:41,053 --> 00:13:44,355 and my values, my actions, and thinking about the effect 292 00:13:44,356 --> 00:13:46,958 ox' people on people, wondering if any 293 00:13:46,959 --> 00:13:50,228 ox' it's meaningful, if it's fume, 294 00:13:50,229 --> 00:13:52,964 frying to figure out what it is that my life is, 295 00:13:52,965 --> 00:13:54,911 and where We been going. 296 00:13:58,270 --> 00:14:00,405 MAN: This is a man whose time has come, 297 00:14:00,406 --> 00:14:03,241 a man whose principles have been familiar to Americans 298 00:14:03,242 --> 00:14:05,977 for 30 years, a man whose accomplishments 299 00:14:05,978 --> 00:14:07,979 make him the natural choice 300 00:14:07,980 --> 00:14:10,381 for president of the United States. 301 00:14:10,382 --> 00:14:14,586 RONALD REAGAN: We will make America great again. 302 00:14:14,587 --> 00:14:15,954 Thank you very much. 303 00:14:15,955 --> 00:14:18,389 [applause] 304 00:14:18,390 --> 00:14:22,093 DAVID: Reagan, as the president of this country now, 305 00:14:22,094 --> 00:14:25,029 going through a time in my life that seems desperate, 306 00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:29,410 surreal, awful, and slightly wondrous all simultaneously. 307 00:14:32,104 --> 00:14:35,506 Met a fellow a month or so ago, Peter Hujar, 308 00:14:35,507 --> 00:14:38,643 photographer who, in some interesting ways, 309 00:14:38,644 --> 00:14:42,413 is like a mirror of scenes I 'm entering. 310 00:14:42,414 --> 00:14:47,414 He has the same desperate and at times confused outlook, 311 00:14:48,254 --> 00:14:51,956 but minus the one seed ox' hope that t have in me. 312 00:14:51,957 --> 00:14:55,564 [music] 313 00:14:58,197 --> 00:15:01,532 STEPHEN KOCH: The relationship between Peter and David 314 00:15:01,533 --> 00:15:05,270 is one oi' the most interesting relationships 315 00:15:05,271 --> 00:15:09,307 between artists in a very long time. 316 00:15:09,308 --> 00:15:12,977 More interesting than van Gogh and Gauguin, 317 00:15:12,978 --> 00:15:16,147 very, very special enemy. 318 00:15:16,148 --> 00:15:18,383 [music] 319 00:15:18,384 --> 00:15:21,052 CYNTHIA: When Peter started his career 320 00:15:21,053 --> 00:15:23,221 as a photographer in the '50s, 321 00:15:23,222 --> 00:15:26,090 it was not considered a real art form. 322 00:15:26,091 --> 00:15:28,559 His photographs were mostly portraits, 323 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,561 mostly of people he knew, but he did know 324 00:15:30,562 --> 00:15:32,664 some rather famous people, you know. 325 00:15:32,665 --> 00:15:36,367 He's truly an artist, but Peter was very difficult, 326 00:15:36,368 --> 00:15:38,036 and in terms m' having a career, 327 00:15:38,037 --> 00:15:40,371 he was not very good at it. 328 00:15:40,372 --> 00:15:43,107 FRAN". These works were very small. 329 00:15:43,108 --> 00:15:45,009 The New York Art World fit in one restaurant. 330 00:15:45,010 --> 00:15:46,444 One restaurant, okay? 331 00:15:46,445 --> 00:15:48,513 I heard of Peter before I met him. 332 00:15:48,514 --> 00:15:50,248 The number ox' people who would have heard of Peter, 333 00:15:50,249 --> 00:15:52,250 you know, 12? 334 00:15:52,251 --> 00:15:54,953 MAN: He may have been a saint on Avenue A, 335 00:15:54,954 --> 00:15:57,488 but it was underground fame. 336 00:15:57,489 --> 00:16:00,692 He did not have that standing in the quote, 337 00:16:00,693 --> 00:16:04,562 โ€œreal art world.โ€œ He was stranded. 338 00:16:04,563 --> 00:16:07,598 Nothing was going nowhere. 339 00:16:07,599 --> 00:16:10,601 PETER HUJAR: Howdy-do, howdy-do. 340 00:16:10,602 --> 00:16:13,304 This is Huprino again. 341 00:16:13,305 --> 00:16:16,741 I was wondering ix' David's steamed vegetable was there. 342 00:16:16,742 --> 00:16:20,311 This is Peter fast juice. 343 00:16:20,312 --> 00:16:22,690 [cars honk] 344 00:16:25,617 --> 00:16:27,418 DAVID: Peter last night in the bar when I told him 345 00:16:27,419 --> 00:16:29,287 about doing a portfolio and throwing out 346 00:16:29,288 --> 00:16:30,722 all the drawings so I thought we're - 347 00:16:30,723 --> 00:16:32,724 very upsetting 348 00:16:32,725 --> 00:16:35,293 told me not to throw out any drawings 349 00:16:35,294 --> 00:16:38,329 no matter what my taste is and what my ideas are, 350 00:16:38,330 --> 00:16:40,031 ix' I feel it's good enough, 351 00:16:40,032 --> 00:16:42,133 thereโ€œ be somebody who will pick up on it, 352 00:16:42,134 --> 00:16:44,068 t shouldn't start compromising 353 00:16:44,069 --> 00:16:46,982 and trying to adapt to other people's taste. 354 00:16:49,708 --> 00:16:51,676 And last night, I was standing around here 5:00, 355 00:16:51,677 --> 00:16:55,713 6:00 in the morning, looking through the portfolio, 356 00:16:55,714 --> 00:16:59,250 looking at my photographs. 357 00:16:59,251 --> 00:17:01,319 t was realty startled, it was like the fist time 358 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,121 that I sat down and really looked at them 359 00:17:03,122 --> 00:17:05,556 in ages since I did them. 360 00:17:05,557 --> 00:17:09,494 And t realized that they are good. 361 00:17:09,495 --> 00:17:11,729 And that there's absolutely no reason for me 362 00:17:11,730 --> 00:17:16,300 to deny them or throw them away, they're my life. 363 00:17:16,301 --> 00:17:19,437 And t don't owe it to anybody to distort that 364 00:17:19,438 --> 00:17:21,572 just for their comfort. 365 00:17:21,573 --> 00:17:26,573 CARLO". I think that everything David thought an artist could 366 00:17:26,578 --> 00:17:30,648 and should be was embodied by Peter. 367 00:17:30,649 --> 00:17:34,324 And Peter was the purest of the tot. 368 00:17:36,622 --> 00:17:39,057 [seagulls gawking] 369 00:17:39,058 --> 00:17:42,527 [music] 370 00:17:42,528 --> 00:17:46,397 STEVEN". Peter had tremendous respect for anyone else 371 00:17:46,398 --> 00:17:50,768 who had that same drive, called them those people. 372 00:17:50,769 --> 00:17:55,139 And those people were special. 373 00:17:55,140 --> 00:17:58,409 He was a tough judge. 374 00:17:58,410 --> 00:18:03,081 And when he discovered David, he realized he's one of them. 375 00:18:03,082 --> 00:18:05,616 This guy is one ox' them. 376 00:18:05,617 --> 00:18:08,453 He's talented in a chaotic way. 377 00:18:08,454 --> 00:18:13,257 And Peter saw right away both the talent and the chaos. 378 00:18:13,258 --> 00:18:15,660 [music] 379 00:18:15,661 --> 00:18:17,662 [car honks] 380 00:18:17,663 --> 00:18:20,098 FRAN: When Peter first met David and talked about him, 381 00:18:20,099 --> 00:18:22,633 t paid zero attention to Peter about this. Zero. 382 00:18:22,634 --> 00:18:24,535 I don't pay much attention to people I was steeping with, 383 00:18:24,536 --> 00:18:26,304 t don't know why t should pay attention 384 00:18:26,305 --> 00:18:28,172 to people that Peter was steeping with. 385 00:18:28,173 --> 00:18:30,108 t was under the impression that he was a teenager 386 00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:31,843 because he had that band called, like, 387 00:18:31,844 --> 00:18:34,612 4 Teens Kill 3 or 3 Teens Km 4, 388 00:18:34,613 --> 00:18:36,380 which, of course, We never heard of. 389 00:18:36,381 --> 00:18:38,116 3 TEENS KILL 4: J" Give me all your bibles J" 390 00:18:38,117 --> 00:18:39,250 J" give me all your money, give me all your bibles J" 391 00:18:39,251 --> 00:18:40,651 J" give me all your money J" 392 00:18:40,652 --> 00:18:42,653 JESSE HULTBERG: The story about 3 Teens 393 00:18:42,654 --> 00:18:44,522 playing for the first time, it has to do with Danceteria 394 00:18:44,523 --> 00:18:47,391 being shut down for not having a liquor license. 395 00:18:47,392 --> 00:18:49,227 Dave and I were busboys at Danceteria. 396 00:18:49,228 --> 00:18:50,728 We worked together. 397 00:18:50,729 --> 00:18:53,197 R was an interesting crowd ox' people. 398 00:18:53,198 --> 00:18:55,233 Keith Haring was a busboy there too, 399 00:18:55,234 --> 00:18:57,735 and Madonna was hanging out. 400 00:18:57,736 --> 00:19:00,505 BRIAN BUTTERICK: They advertised having a full bar 401 00:19:00,506 --> 00:19:02,340 until 8:00 in the morning. 402 00:19:02,341 --> 00:19:06,844 m the time, mind you, totally a mob operation. 403 00:19:06,845 --> 00:19:08,446 3 TEENS KILL 4: J" This is a hold up, hold up J" 404 00:19:08,447 --> 00:19:12,250 J" hold up, hold up - J" 405 00:19:12,251 --> 00:19:14,663 [siren blaring] 406 00:19:17,623 --> 00:19:20,691 BRIAN: We were raided, and a bunch of us went to jail. 407 00:19:20,692 --> 00:19:22,793 David escaped. 408 00:19:22,794 --> 00:19:26,230 And then he had concocted a Molotov cocktail 409 00:19:26,231 --> 00:19:29,267 apparently when they pulled up the police vehicle. 410 00:19:29,268 --> 00:19:31,680 [music] 411 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,474 BRIAN: But we couldn't figure out how to do it 412 00:19:36,475 --> 00:19:39,410 without, you know, hurting people. 413 00:19:39,411 --> 00:19:41,512 JESSE: We'd spent a night in jail 414 00:19:41,513 --> 00:19:45,716 and then gtamorized that event, you know, we put on a show. 415 00:19:45,717 --> 00:19:48,886 BRIAN: Now, l don't know why we felt we needed a benefit 416 00:19:48,887 --> 00:19:53,324 for funds because the mob paid for fucking lawyers 417 00:19:53,325 --> 00:19:57,428 so that our case is dismissed. 418 00:19:57,429 --> 00:19:57,562 [music] 419 00:19:57,563 --> 00:19:58,930 [music] 420 00:19:58,931 --> 00:20:00,898 MAN: Jerry? 421 00:20:00,899 --> 00:20:03,901 A time more volume on the drums. 422 00:20:03,902 --> 00:20:05,736 BRIAN: And anyway we had a benefit 423 00:20:05,737 --> 00:20:08,372 that we threw together as 3 Teens Kit! 4. 424 00:20:08,373 --> 00:20:10,641 MAN". Uno, dos, tres, quatro. 425 00:20:10,642 --> 00:20:14,852 J" - see the man twisted J" 426 00:20:17,216 --> 00:20:18,950 J" Really, really, really, really, really J" 427 00:20:18,951 --> 00:20:22,353 J" Really, really, really - J" 428 00:20:22,354 --> 00:20:24,488 BRIAN: But after we played the first gig, 429 00:20:24,489 --> 00:20:27,792 Jesse and I and David wanted to continue it. 430 00:20:27,793 --> 00:20:30,528 JULIE HAIR: I knew their drummer had fallen out. 431 00:20:30,529 --> 00:20:32,563 t went and bought a rhythm machine 432 00:20:32,564 --> 00:20:34,465 because I didn't know how to play anything. 433 00:20:34,466 --> 00:20:35,967 I thought, โ€œWell, I can push buttons, 434 00:20:35,968 --> 00:20:37,969 so I did that.โ€œ 435 00:20:37,970 --> 00:20:39,470 JESSE". t don't think any ox' us were very proficient, 436 00:20:39,471 --> 00:20:41,372 but it wasn't really the point. 437 00:20:41,373 --> 00:20:43,608 R was an effort to not really necessarily make music, 438 00:20:43,609 --> 00:20:46,978 but to have a film almost for your ears. 439 00:20:46,979 --> 00:20:49,585 [music] 440 00:20:52,718 --> 00:20:55,319 JESSE. We ended up calling it the Cacophonic Barrage. 441 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,021 [boat honks] 442 00:20:57,022 --> 00:20:58,723 JESSE". As opposed to music. 443 00:20:58,724 --> 00:21:00,758 JULIE: We were really ahead of our time 444 00:21:00,759 --> 00:21:03,694 with the music samples, and that was David's instrument. 445 00:21:03,695 --> 00:21:06,631 CARLO". David would come up to a mic with his handheld 446 00:21:06,632 --> 00:21:09,267 tape recorder and blast sounds. 447 00:21:09,268 --> 00:21:10,735 MAN: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. 448 00:21:10,736 --> 00:21:14,038 Yes. Because ox' the guns and the grenade, 449 00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:16,507 a great equalizer that used to be something 450 00:21:16,508 --> 00:21:20,544 to a revolver and made all men six feet tall. 451 00:21:20,545 --> 00:21:22,346 JULIE: I heard a rumor that Frank Zappa 452 00:21:22,347 --> 00:21:24,649 was in the audience one time when we played, 453 00:21:24,650 --> 00:21:28,586 and he said that we used the tapes like lead guitar, 454 00:21:28,587 --> 00:21:30,454 which I thought was a great comment. 455 00:21:30,455 --> 00:21:33,391 REVEREND JIMMY SWAGGART: There was a time in America, 456 00:21:33,392 --> 00:21:37,828 that ix' a, โ€œglory holeโ€œ appears, 457 00:21:37,829 --> 00:21:39,397 the police would throw them 458 00:21:39,398 --> 00:21:44,035 in }ail on morals' charges. 459 00:21:44,036 --> 00:21:46,904 Limp-wristed sissies. 460 00:21:46,905 --> 00:21:50,541 [music] 461 00:21:50,542 --> 00:21:52,943 JULIE: David wasn't really of the art world. 462 00:21:52,944 --> 00:21:55,546 At that point in time, he was just an individual 463 00:21:55,547 --> 00:21:57,081 that was doing his thing. 464 00:21:57,082 --> 00:22:00,551 He used to come over to my house to make art 465 00:22:00,552 --> 00:22:04,388 because there was more room in my house than in his house, 466 00:22:04,389 --> 00:22:07,491 which is funny, because t had a tiny East Village apartment 467 00:22:07,492 --> 00:22:10,628 with a bathtub and a kitchen, and a toilet in the hallway. 468 00:22:10,629 --> 00:22:12,596 We would get on the floor and make stencils, 469 00:22:12,597 --> 00:22:14,598 and posters for the band. 470 00:22:14,599 --> 00:22:19,403 [music] 471 00:22:19,404 --> 00:22:21,706 DAVID: We made fall posters, put them up in the street 472 00:22:21,707 --> 00:22:25,910 most of them are - 473 00:22:25,911 --> 00:22:28,045 So we started thinking about more permanent things, 474 00:22:28,046 --> 00:22:31,882 the most certain thing out in the street. 475 00:22:31,883 --> 00:22:35,586 - Images around the - at the street. 476 00:22:35,587 --> 00:22:37,999 [music] 477 00:22:41,426 --> 00:22:42,760 DAVID: But I didn't have any intention 478 00:22:42,761 --> 00:22:44,895 ox' being a street artist. 479 00:22:44,896 --> 00:22:47,732 I was just being provocative. 480 00:22:47,733 --> 00:22:50,134 MAN". Ready on the firing line. 481 00:22:50,135 --> 00:22:51,902 DAVID: Every night, I went downtown, 482 00:22:51,903 --> 00:22:54,805 did every gallery door I could find with images 483 00:22:54,806 --> 00:22:59,806 ox' the burning house, the plane, and the figure. 484 00:23:00,779 --> 00:23:04,782 R was an aggressive thing. 485 00:23:04,783 --> 00:23:08,719 This idea of New York City streets filled with soldiers, 486 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,855 that kind ox' tense atmosphere. 487 00:23:10,856 --> 00:23:13,457 MAN: Halt, left flank, halt. 488 00:23:13,458 --> 00:23:15,159 [plane whirring] 489 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,094 [gunshot] 490 00:23:17,095 --> 00:23:21,031 [music] 491 00:23:21,032 --> 00:23:22,867 CARLO". I was this rabid fan ox' David. 492 00:23:22,868 --> 00:23:25,469 He was pretty obscure at that time. 493 00:23:25,470 --> 00:23:29,106 But I knew about the piece him and Julie Hair did 494 00:23:29,107 --> 00:23:31,675 on the Leo Castelli building, 495 00:23:31,676 --> 00:23:34,111 the shrine to contemporary art at that time. 496 00:23:34,112 --> 00:23:36,180 DAVID: Julie and I wanted to do a series 497 00:23:36,181 --> 00:23:38,849 of action installations, which were basically 498 00:23:38,850 --> 00:23:40,951 uninvited installations. 499 00:23:40,952 --> 00:23:45,122 We wanted to open up what culture was to us 500 00:23:45,123 --> 00:23:49,794 as opposed to what was handled by rich white people. 501 00:23:49,795 --> 00:23:53,497 JULIE: I don't really remember any planning stages of this, 502 00:23:53,498 --> 00:23:56,901 but we went to the west side 503 00:23:56,902 --> 00:23:59,503 where all the butchers were. 504 00:23:59,504 --> 00:24:01,205 FRAN: The Meatpacking District, which used to be 505 00:24:01,206 --> 00:24:04,208 a Meatpacking District, you would never wanna go there 506 00:24:04,209 --> 00:24:06,110 because of the smell of blood 507 00:24:06,111 --> 00:24:09,079 from the actually butchering and packing meat. 508 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,982 JULIE: There were big cans outside of the butchers' 509 00:24:11,983 --> 00:24:14,518 with giant cow bones in them. 510 00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:16,220 So, we've got a bunch ox' bones, 511 00:24:16,221 --> 00:24:18,689 we put them in this little wagon. 512 00:24:18,690 --> 00:24:20,624 DAVID: We brought a couple hundred pounds 513 00:24:20,625 --> 00:24:25,162 ox' bloody cow bones, dumped them into the staircase. 514 00:24:25,163 --> 00:24:28,466 Did a stencil painting with spray paint ox' the empty plate, 515 00:24:28,467 --> 00:24:29,500 a knife, and a fork. 516 00:24:29,501 --> 00:24:30,835 MAN". Left, right, halt. 517 00:24:30,836 --> 00:24:32,236 DAVID: And then military bombers, 518 00:24:32,237 --> 00:24:33,871 houses, and planes, 519 00:24:33,872 --> 00:24:35,673 and figures recoiling on the wall, 520 00:24:35,674 --> 00:24:37,208 and then left. 521 00:24:37,209 --> 00:24:38,976 CARLO". They stenciled the despair ox' New York 522 00:24:38,977 --> 00:24:40,711 at that time, and then they poured gallons 523 00:24:40,712 --> 00:24:43,614 and gallons of cow's blood down the stairs. 524 00:24:43,615 --> 00:24:46,951 DAVID: Nobody seemed to think anything was amiss. 525 00:24:46,952 --> 00:24:50,020 They had thought it was just part ox' the art world. 526 00:24:50,021 --> 00:24:52,790 [music] 527 00:24:52,791 --> 00:24:55,793 MAN". Left, right, halt. 528 00:24:55,794 --> 00:25:00,264 [music] 529 00:25:00,265 --> 00:25:01,899 DAVID: Six months later, 530 00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:04,568 I was still doing stuff on the street. 531 00:25:04,569 --> 00:25:05,736 That's when somebody approached me 532 00:25:05,737 --> 00:25:07,238 from one ox' the galleries, 533 00:25:07,239 --> 00:25:08,839 asked me ix' I wanted to put a painting 534 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,141 in one of the shows, so I said sure. 535 00:25:11,142 --> 00:25:13,713 [music] 536 00:25:16,147 --> 00:25:17,848 CYNTHIA: David ends up in a show with people 537 00:25:17,849 --> 00:25:20,150 like Julian Schnabel and David Hockney, 538 00:25:20,151 --> 00:25:21,752 and lots of people who were famous. 539 00:25:21,753 --> 00:25:25,122 He was completely unknown. 540 00:25:25,123 --> 00:25:27,258 [siren blaring] 541 00:25:27,259 --> 00:25:29,093 ALAN BARROWS: A lot of artists were doing graffiti 542 00:25:29,094 --> 00:25:31,962 in the East Village. Keith Haring and Basquiat, 543 00:25:31,963 --> 00:25:33,931 and David was doing it. 544 00:25:33,932 --> 00:25:36,133 SUR RODNEY SUR: There were no resources like now. 545 00:25:36,134 --> 00:25:37,835 You can go down to the Lower East Side 546 00:25:37,836 --> 00:25:39,904 and there's like a dozen young galleries 547 00:25:39,905 --> 00:25:41,772 you've never heard ox' that are showing style. 548 00:25:41,773 --> 00:25:43,674 There was nothing. 549 00:25:43,675 --> 00:25:46,810 There was SoHo, and there was uptown, 550 00:25:46,811 --> 00:25:49,780 and there were these established galleries. 551 00:25:49,781 --> 00:25:52,283 ALAN: We didn't fee! we had any entree into there 552 00:25:52,284 --> 00:25:55,686 so we created space so we could show our work and have fun. 553 00:25:55,687 --> 00:25:57,922 [music] 554 00:25:57,923 --> 00:26:00,658 ALAN: Dean Savard and I started the gallery 555 00:26:00,659 --> 00:26:04,728 through a series ox' one-night parties. 556 00:26:04,729 --> 00:26:07,898 There was no real intention oi' making any money. 557 00:26:07,899 --> 00:26:09,934 We would put the art up for one night, 558 00:26:09,935 --> 00:26:12,703 we invite friends and sat around on the floor 559 00:26:12,704 --> 00:26:15,810 drinking beer and smoking pot, talking about art. 560 00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:19,677 GRACIE MANSION: When my gallery first started, 561 00:26:19,678 --> 00:26:23,013 it had gotten t think $200 back from my taxes. 562 00:26:23,014 --> 00:26:25,316 And t thought, oh, let's have a party. 563 00:26:25,317 --> 00:26:27,284 I had photographs in my bathroom 564 00:26:27,285 --> 00:26:29,853 and my bathroom was a toilet and three walls 565 00:26:29,854 --> 00:26:31,731 because the bathtub was in the kitchen. 566 00:26:36,728 --> 00:26:40,197 Never did t think that anybody would show up after the party. 567 00:26:40,198 --> 00:26:41,966 ALAN: Eventually we decided that, 0h, 568 00:26:41,967 --> 00:26:44,301 we'll leave the art up for a little longer. 569 00:26:44,302 --> 00:26:49,073 We were really drawn to David's militaristic imagery. 570 00:26:49,074 --> 00:26:51,953 We decided that we would put them into a group show. 571 00:26:55,213 --> 00:26:59,083 We put this realty large painting that David did. 572 00:26:59,084 --> 00:27:03,153 It was one of the most unusual things I had seen an artist do 573 00:27:03,154 --> 00:27:06,323 expressing what was going on around us at the time, 574 00:27:06,324 --> 00:27:08,859 where mankind stood at that point 575 00:27:08,860 --> 00:27:11,962 where self-annihilation could occur. 576 00:27:11,963 --> 00:27:14,331 We were actually trying to sell the work. 577 00:27:14,332 --> 00:27:16,233 Pm trying to remember how much we were asking for it. 578 00:27:16,234 --> 00:27:19,269 I think probably around $5,000. 579 00:27:19,270 --> 00:27:21,372 Ox' course we didn't sell it because nobody was coming 580 00:27:21,373 --> 00:27:25,709 into the gallery with that kind ox' money back then. 581 00:27:25,710 --> 00:27:27,211 SUR: The interesting thing about the East Village, 582 00:27:27,212 --> 00:27:28,979 so when there were artists that were realty 583 00:27:28,980 --> 00:27:31,915 kind ox' special, everybody knew about it 584 00:27:31,916 --> 00:27:33,751 or there'd be this buzz about it. 585 00:27:33,752 --> 00:27:35,386 So, there was a time bit of buzz about David. 586 00:27:35,387 --> 00:27:37,187 GRACIE: He had that book, Sounds in the Distance, 587 00:27:37,188 --> 00:27:38,956 which came out. 588 00:27:38,957 --> 00:27:40,391 And I was so impressed because on the back 589 00:27:40,392 --> 00:27:42,126 il had Blur by William Burroughs. 590 00:27:42,127 --> 00:27:44,828 And I was like, oh, my God, this artist 591 00:27:44,829 --> 00:27:47,197 must be really incredible because William Burroughs 592 00:27:47,198 --> 00:27:49,767 wrote something about it. 593 00:27:49,768 --> 00:27:53,370 When we did the Famous Show, which was in '82, 594 00:27:53,371 --> 00:27:56,306 we were looking for portraits ox' famous people 595 00:27:56,307 --> 00:27:58,809 by famous and soon to be famous artists. 596 00:27:58,810 --> 00:28:01,445 David brought in this painting, Peter Hujar 597 00:28:01,446 --> 00:28:04,682 Dreaming about Yukio Mishima in Saint Sebastian 598 00:28:04,683 --> 00:28:06,216 at the last minute after everything 599 00:28:06,217 --> 00:28:07,818 was already up in the wall. 600 00:28:07,819 --> 00:28:09,887 - SUR". Typical. - GRACE". Typical. 601 00:28:09,888 --> 00:28:11,288 SUR". There was like no space 602 00:28:11,289 --> 00:28:12,456 because there were so many people 603 00:28:12,457 --> 00:28:14,324 and he had a really big piece. 604 00:28:14,325 --> 00:28:15,693 So, where are you gonna put a really big piece? 605 00:28:15,694 --> 00:28:17,227 You hang it from the ceiling. 606 00:28:17,228 --> 00:28:19,229 GRACIE: That's why I love this photograph 607 00:28:19,230 --> 00:28:21,432 ox' the opening where you can't realty see any ox' the art 608 00:28:21,433 --> 00:28:24,401 but you can see David's piece because it's on the ceiling. 609 00:28:24,402 --> 00:28:27,071 [laughs] 610 00:28:27,072 --> 00:28:29,073 DAVID: The early images were all simple images. 611 00:28:29,074 --> 00:28:30,441 But t just wanted to record things 612 00:28:30,442 --> 00:28:32,409 that! (MM see people recording 613 00:28:32,410 --> 00:28:34,978 and painting at that time. 614 00:28:34,979 --> 00:28:37,881 You know, I wanted to record my own history 615 00:28:37,882 --> 00:28:40,250 or different history. 616 00:28:40,251 --> 00:28:42,853 And that's what painting originally was for me. 617 00:28:42,854 --> 00:28:45,789 All the paintings are diaries that I always thought 618 00:28:45,790 --> 00:28:48,425 as prom' ox' my own existence. 619 00:28:48,426 --> 00:28:50,861 [music] 620 00:28:50,862 --> 00:28:52,239 [music] 621 00:28:56,434 --> 00:28:58,869 MAN". Welcome 3 Teens Kill 4. 622 00:28:58,870 --> 00:29:02,806 [cheers and applause] 623 00:29:02,807 --> 00:29:05,342 MAN: - Reagan. White House confirmed a short time later 624 00:29:05,343 --> 00:29:07,511 that the President had indeed been shot. 625 00:29:07,512 --> 00:29:11,081 The President was shot once in the left chest. 626 00:29:11,082 --> 00:29:13,851 The bullet entered from the left side. 627 00:29:13,852 --> 00:29:15,519 He is in stable condition. 628 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,187 Mrs. Reagan rushed to the hospital 629 00:29:17,188 --> 00:29:18,822 and the President jokingly told her, 630 00:29:18,823 --> 00:29:21,091 โ€œHoney, I forgot to duck.โ€œ 631 00:29:21,092 --> 00:29:23,060 DOUG BRESSLER: 1 think he misconstrued 632 00:29:23,061 --> 00:29:26,196 that one is celebrating Reagan's assassination attempt. 633 00:29:26,197 --> 00:29:28,031 R's media critique. 634 00:29:28,032 --> 00:29:29,767 MAN: He was wheeled into surgery and he quipped 635 00:29:29,768 --> 00:29:32,044 to the doctors, โ€œ! hope you're all Republicans.โ€œ 636 00:29:36,941 --> 00:29:38,375 We are all essential laborers J" 637 00:29:38,376 --> 00:29:40,310 J" Laborers, laborers J" 638 00:29:40,311 --> 00:29:42,312 MAN: 3 Teens Kill 4 had a song called Hunger 639 00:29:42,313 --> 00:29:45,916 which was the underclass and disparity 640 00:29:45,917 --> 00:29:47,484 ox' wealth in this country. 641 00:29:47,485 --> 00:29:49,119 J" I see these things every day J" 642 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:50,921 3 TEENS KILL 4: J" Every day, every day J" 643 00:29:50,922 --> 00:29:52,456 J" Television candidates with singular vision J" 644 00:29:52,457 --> 00:29:54,024 3 TEENS KILL 4: Vision, vision, vision, vision J" 645 00:29:54,025 --> 00:29:55,826 J" Grey images of freezing homes J" 646 00:29:55,827 --> 00:29:57,261 3 TEENS KILL 4: โ™ช Homes, homes, homes, homes โ™ช 647 00:29:57,262 --> 00:29:59,029 J" People combing through garbage reefs J" 648 00:29:59,030 --> 00:30:00,330 3 TEENS KILL 4: J" Garbage reefs, garbage reefs J" 649 00:30:00,331 --> 00:30:02,099 J" S0 we continue, so we consume J" 650 00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:03,400 3 TEENS KILL 43 โ™ช S0 We continue, so we consume J" 651 00:30:03,401 --> 00:30:05,169 J" S0 we continue, so we consume J" 652 00:30:05,170 --> 00:30:07,337 3 TEENS KILL 43 โ™ช S0 We continue, so we consume J" 653 00:30:07,338 --> 00:30:09,973 DAVID: last night, I ran into Brian and Jesse, 654 00:30:09,974 --> 00:30:11,875 discovered them to be in a big discussion 655 00:30:11,876 --> 00:30:16,380 about the politics m' clubs and politics ox' dance. 656 00:30:16,381 --> 00:30:19,516 They just did not wanna hear it. 657 00:30:19,517 --> 00:30:21,351 When you're trying to do a fucking job 658 00:30:21,352 --> 00:30:23,353 and support yourself and be able to do things 659 00:30:23,354 --> 00:30:26,924 that you feet realty important. 660 00:30:26,925 --> 00:30:28,325 JESSE. There were lots of different reasons 661 00:30:28,326 --> 00:30:30,160 why he wanted to leave the band. 662 00:30:30,161 --> 00:30:32,196 He wanted to do painting. 663 00:30:32,197 --> 00:30:33,964 He wanted to have more control over whatever he was doing. 664 00:30:33,965 --> 00:30:36,066 r remember having an argument with David. 665 00:30:36,067 --> 00:30:38,068 He said to me, โ€œI can'! really be friends 666 00:30:38,069 --> 00:30:41,038 with someone who doesn't like what I do artistically" 667 00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:42,840 I said, โ€œWell, David. 668 00:30:42,841 --> 00:30:44,474 There's a lot of your art that! don't like 669 00:30:44,475 --> 00:30:46,543 and there's a lot of that anger that! don't relate to 670 00:30:46,544 --> 00:30:48,956 and don't necessarily would wanna collaborate with.โ€œ 671 00:30:53,151 --> 00:30:54,585 DAVID: Hi. This is Helen of Troy 672 00:30:54,586 --> 00:30:57,087 calling from Poughkeepsie. 673 00:30:57,088 --> 00:30:59,923 Oh, I got you on that one. Ha-ha. Good-bye. 674 00:30:59,924 --> 00:31:03,531 [music] 675 00:31:08,433 --> 00:31:09,571 MAN: Hi. This is - 676 00:31:14,606 --> 00:31:16,573 - DAVID: Why? - DIRK ROWNTREEI David 677 00:31:16,574 --> 00:31:21,144 came over to our place early one morning. 678 00:31:21,145 --> 00:31:23,981 He said, โ€œYou guys got to come to this huge pier 679 00:31:23,982 --> 00:31:27,417 with all these walls and there's nobody there." 680 00:31:27,418 --> 00:31:31,021 We had to slip under a chain-link fence, 681 00:31:31,022 --> 00:31:35,492 got into the building, and it was really impressive, 682 00:31:35,493 --> 00:31:39,329 remarkable space, for years been abandoned 683 00:31:39,330 --> 00:31:42,140 like a couple football fields in size. 684 00:31:44,035 --> 00:31:46,370 The idea was for artists 685 00:31:46,371 --> 00:31:49,339 to make work there surreptitiously. 686 00:31:49,340 --> 00:31:52,542 R was very adventurous and illegal. 687 00:31:52,543 --> 00:31:54,211 CARLO". And that was very much connected 688 00:31:54,212 --> 00:31:56,914 to David's knowledge ox' the piers 689 00:31:56,915 --> 00:32:00,517 as a place for sexual tryst and that whole subculture 690 00:32:00,518 --> 00:32:03,520 around it in a way they kind ox' spoiled that spot. 691 00:32:03,521 --> 00:32:05,455 And we can'! go there for their acts anymore 692 00:32:05,456 --> 00:32:08,458 because there are too many people traipsing through. 693 00:32:08,459 --> 00:32:12,462 KIKI SMITH: The ground floor was thousands of square feet 694 00:32:12,463 --> 00:32:14,932 with very high ceilings. 695 00:32:14,933 --> 00:32:17,067 And upstairs there were rooms. 696 00:32:17,068 --> 00:32:19,069 David and I found 697 00:32:19,070 --> 00:32:23,246 piles ox' discarded files 698 00:32:26,277 --> 00:32:29,579 and psychological evaluations from Bellevue. 699 00:32:29,580 --> 00:32:32,584 [music] 700 00:32:34,452 --> 00:32:36,720 KIKI: They had them draw pictures of men and women 701 00:32:36,721 --> 00:32:39,589 and, yeah, most were very, very loose, you know. 702 00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:41,325 R's like how you drew 703 00:32:41,326 --> 00:32:43,193 in elementary school or something like that. 704 00:32:43,194 --> 00:32:45,629 And then others were sort of more you would say like 705 00:32:45,630 --> 00:32:47,731 in quote "sophisticated," or this and that. 706 00:32:47,732 --> 00:32:50,434 But they were very emotional 707 00:32:50,435 --> 00:32:53,737 and had a great deal of resonance in them. 708 00:32:53,738 --> 00:32:55,439 Hi. David, {his is Kiki. 709 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,174 I think you've got my squeegee 710 00:32:57,175 --> 00:32:59,376 for silkscreening and I need it. 711 00:32:59,377 --> 00:33:01,111 Okay. Bye-bye- 712 00:33:01,112 --> 00:33:03,146 So, I was doing a lot ox' silkscreening then 713 00:33:03,147 --> 00:33:06,128 and I taught him how to make silkscreens. 714 00:33:08,386 --> 00:33:10,654 So we decided to use these images 715 00:33:10,655 --> 00:33:13,329 and make a collaboration. 716 00:33:20,231 --> 00:33:22,299 MARION SCEMAMA: The first time I met David, 717 00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:25,602 it wasn't physically. 718 00:33:25,603 --> 00:33:30,245 H was more mind to mind, like vibration. 719 00:33:32,143 --> 00:33:33,777 R was summer '83. 720 00:33:33,778 --> 00:33:36,546 I wasn't involved in the art scene. 721 00:33:36,547 --> 00:33:39,216 But one day, there's a French photographer 722 00:33:39,217 --> 00:33:43,353 who came to visit New York and he said, 723 00:33:43,354 --> 00:33:45,322 โ€œDid you hear about the abandoned pier 724 00:33:45,323 --> 00:33:47,057 where all these artists go 725 00:33:47,058 --> 00:33:48,792 and paint on the walls and do things?โ€œ 726 00:33:48,793 --> 00:33:50,363 And I said, โ€œNo? 727 00:33:53,698 --> 00:33:56,400 He took me there. 728 00:33:56,401 --> 00:33:59,036 I fell in love with that place, you know. 729 00:33:59,037 --> 00:34:04,037 R was like so deathly romantic. 730 00:34:04,175 --> 00:34:07,677 One day somebody told me the story of this artist, 731 00:34:07,678 --> 00:34:10,814 David Wojnarowicz, who opened the place. 732 00:34:10,815 --> 00:34:14,818 And I remember right away I had a crush on this guy. 733 00:34:14,819 --> 00:34:18,221 I thought this guy must really be great, you know, 734 00:34:18,222 --> 00:34:20,090 to open a place like that, 735 00:34:20,091 --> 00:34:24,428 to call people to come and collaborate and paint. 736 00:34:24,429 --> 00:34:27,535 For me, he was already somebody special. 737 00:34:29,367 --> 00:34:31,435 CARLO". in the end, you know, hundreds of artists 738 00:34:31,436 --> 00:34:34,271 were doing things there and French fashion magazines 739 00:34:34,272 --> 00:34:36,373 were doing shoots in there. 740 00:34:36,374 --> 00:34:39,150 ANDREAS STERZING: It got so big that police came. 741 00:34:41,312 --> 00:34:44,381 They closed it down. 742 00:34:44,382 --> 00:34:47,784 The whole magic was lost. 743 00:34:47,785 --> 00:34:51,388 They started tearing it down 744 00:34:51,389 --> 00:34:54,224 and I have a picture ox' the Gagging Cow ox' David's 745 00:34:54,225 --> 00:34:56,501 while it appears being pulled down. 746 00:34:58,663 --> 00:35:03,840 And then the pier disappeared into the river and was gone. 747 00:35:05,736 --> 00:35:09,606 t think the East Village scene exploded at the same time. 748 00:35:09,607 --> 00:35:13,810 ALAN". โ€œwasn't until after he had his first solo exhibition for us 749 00:35:13,811 --> 00:35:16,413 that everything broke loose. 750 00:35:16,414 --> 00:35:18,482 The first exhibition was very interesting 751 00:35:18,483 --> 00:35:20,150 in a sense that it was something 752 00:35:20,151 --> 00:35:21,818 nobody had really seen before, 753 00:35:21,819 --> 00:35:23,720 painting things that weren't realty intended 754 00:35:23,721 --> 00:35:25,555 to be painted on. 755 00:35:25,556 --> 00:35:28,592 He'd stencil images over supermarket posters, 756 00:35:28,593 --> 00:35:31,595 trashcan lids, driftwood. 757 00:35:31,596 --> 00:35:33,763 Everything was about something that was found 758 00:35:33,764 --> 00:35:36,133 and didn't cost anything because, again, 759 00:35:36,134 --> 00:35:37,667 nobody had any money. 760 00:35:37,668 --> 00:35:40,437 It was that exhibition that Grace Glueck, 761 00:35:40,438 --> 00:35:43,707 the New York Times art critic rode up on her bicycle, 762 00:35:43,708 --> 00:35:44,875 started looking into the artwork, 763 00:35:44,876 --> 00:35:46,810 asking us about the artist 764 00:35:46,811 --> 00:35:50,480 and asked for a photograph ox' one ox' David's pieces. 765 00:35:50,481 --> 00:35:54,184 DAVID: Grace Glueck showed up and was really - 766 00:35:54,185 --> 00:35:55,752 that she wanted to write something. 767 00:35:55,753 --> 00:35:57,854 And so for us, it was very tongue-in-cheek 768 00:35:57,855 --> 00:36:00,257 you know, did the very serious interviews. 769 00:36:00,258 --> 00:36:01,625 And she went around - hours 770 00:36:01,626 --> 00:36:03,627 at Gracie's and suddenly boom. 771 00:36:03,628 --> 00:36:06,897 ALAN: An article appeared in the Sunday Lifestyle section 772 00:36:06,898 --> 00:36:08,798 of the New York Times. 773 00:36:08,799 --> 00:36:10,500 lt talked about the galleries in the East Village, 774 00:36:10,501 --> 00:36:11,902 David's artwork. 775 00:36:11,903 --> 00:36:13,503 It was after that the collectors 776 00:36:13,504 --> 00:36:17,240 really started coming down. 777 00:36:17,241 --> 00:36:21,511 This limousine pulls up in front ox' our little gritty 778 00:36:21,512 --> 00:36:23,847 drug-infested street. 779 00:36:23,848 --> 00:36:26,516 Robert Pincus-Witten, who was an art critic in New York, 780 00:36:26,517 --> 00:36:28,451 and a very elegant woman, 781 00:36:28,452 --> 00:36:29,920 comes in at the gallery 782 00:36:29,921 --> 00:36:32,255 and baked at each piece examining. 783 00:36:32,256 --> 00:36:34,491 Robert's whispering in her ear. 784 00:36:34,492 --> 00:36:37,594 Soon after he said, "We'll take this one, 785 00:36:37,595 --> 00:36:39,262 this one, this one, and this one. 786 00:36:39,263 --> 00:36:40,697 We'll take that one over there. 787 00:36:40,698 --> 00:36:42,332 And it was like, oh, my God. 788 00:36:42,333 --> 00:36:44,334 I practically ran over to the pier 789 00:36:44,335 --> 00:36:46,703 and then David and Dean were having a beer. 790 00:36:46,704 --> 00:36:48,972 1 said, โ€œOh, my God. We sold so much work.โ€œ 791 00:36:48,973 --> 00:36:51,675 R was such a euphoric feeling. 792 00:36:51,676 --> 00:36:53,577 CARLO". All ox' a sudden, the art worlds gave 793 00:36:53,578 --> 00:36:56,746 this East Village scene its 15 minutes' fame. 794 00:36:56,747 --> 00:36:57,914 Our neighborhood now all of a sudden 795 00:36:57,915 --> 00:36:59,749 had 60 galleries in it 796 00:36:59,750 --> 00:37:02,629 and that people were coming by in limousines. 797 00:37:03,854 --> 00:37:05,455 MAN". โ€œFuck You Faggot Fucker.โ€œ 798 00:37:05,456 --> 00:37:07,424 We were going around the gallery 799 00:37:07,425 --> 00:37:11,294 putting the names on these time stickers on the wall. 800 00:37:11,295 --> 00:37:12,829 โ€œAnd what's the name of this one?โ€œ 801 00:37:12,830 --> 00:37:14,901 And David said, โ€œFuck You Faggot Fucker.โ€œ 802 00:37:16,867 --> 00:37:20,237 It's a piece of torn paper that David found on the street 803 00:37:20,238 --> 00:37:23,540 that somebody had written this homophobic slur on. 804 00:37:23,541 --> 00:37:26,543 And I said, "David, that's so offensive. 805 00:37:26,544 --> 00:37:28,445 Do we have to call it that?โ€œ 806 00:37:28,446 --> 00:37:31,314 David was like, โ€œThat's the name that's gonna stick.โ€œ 807 00:37:31,315 --> 00:37:32,849 BARRY BLINDERMAN: "Fuck Faggot Fucker." 808 00:37:32,850 --> 00:37:34,918 I walked in and the painting just riveted me. 809 00:37:34,919 --> 00:37:38,388 R's Mo boys kissing over a map. 810 00:37:38,389 --> 00:37:40,290 And then on the Your comers, 811 00:37:40,291 --> 00:37:43,660 there is Brian Butterick posing as Saint Sebastian 812 00:37:43,661 --> 00:37:47,731 and there was David posing in the Christodora. 813 00:37:47,732 --> 00:37:49,966 I said, "I'll give you $3,000. " 814 00:37:49,967 --> 00:37:51,568 And he said, โ€œSure.โ€ 815 00:37:51,569 --> 00:37:54,271 Back then 1984, that was a tot ox' money. 816 00:37:54,272 --> 00:37:57,807 But it's been a prized possession since then. 817 00:37:57,808 --> 00:37:59,009 MARISSA: Hi, David. It's Marissa. 818 00:37:59,010 --> 00:38:00,744 Prison Rape is Back. 819 00:38:00,745 --> 00:38:02,779 R just walked in the door from Montreal. 820 00:38:02,780 --> 00:38:04,948 So could you come and pick it up as soon as possible? 821 00:38:04,949 --> 00:38:07,284 Thank you. Bye-bye. 822 00:38:07,285 --> 00:38:09,786 MAN: I think a lot of the reason David is important now 823 00:38:09,787 --> 00:38:12,622 is because people recognized 824 00:38:12,623 --> 00:38:15,058 emergent queer sensibility in David. 825 00:38:15,059 --> 00:38:17,360 โ€œFm not gay as in I love you. 826 00:38:17,361 --> 00:38:20,964 I'm queer as in fuck off." 827 00:38:20,965 --> 00:38:25,302 MARION: Everything I did with David was collaboration. 828 00:38:25,303 --> 00:38:28,972 But the concept ox' it has always been David. 829 00:38:28,973 --> 00:38:33,973 He proposed to make a poster about being queer in America. 830 00:38:34,078 --> 00:38:37,347 David knew a place under the Brooklyn Bridge. 831 00:38:37,348 --> 00:38:39,015 We went there with a truck. 832 00:38:39,016 --> 00:38:41,885 I put some blood on David's face. 833 00:38:41,886 --> 00:38:44,854 It will lead to a scene with the lights of the truck 834 00:38:44,855 --> 00:38:46,562 and we took the photo. 835 00:38:50,094 --> 00:38:51,861 When I went to the darkroom 836 00:38:51,862 --> 00:38:56,032 and t started printing the photo, it scared me. 837 00:38:56,033 --> 00:38:59,369 R really scared me to see this image ox' David 838 00:38:59,370 --> 00:39:01,705 beat up coming under the chemicals. 839 00:39:01,706 --> 00:39:03,039 R looked so real. 840 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:04,674 DAVID: A number of months ago, 841 00:39:04,675 --> 00:39:05,809 I read in the newspaper that there was 842 00:39:05,810 --> 00:39:07,577 a Supreme Court ruling 843 00:39:07,578 --> 00:39:09,446 which states that homosexuals in America 844 00:39:09,447 --> 00:39:11,381 have no constitutional rights 845 00:39:11,382 --> 00:39:13,483 against the government's invasion oi' their privacy. 846 00:39:13,484 --> 00:39:16,486 The paper stated only people who are heterosexual, 847 00:39:16,487 --> 00:39:18,855 or married, or have families 848 00:39:18,856 --> 00:39:20,890 can expect these constitutional rights. 849 00:39:20,891 --> 00:39:23,960 And realizing I got nothing left to lose in my actions, 850 00:39:23,961 --> 00:39:27,731 I let my hands become weapons, my teeth become weapons, 851 00:39:27,732 --> 00:39:29,432 every bone, and muscle, and fiber, 852 00:39:29,433 --> 00:39:31,134 and ounce ox' blood because weapons, 853 00:39:31,135 --> 00:39:35,071 and I feel prepared for the rest ox' my life. 854 00:39:35,072 --> 00:39:36,773 GRACE". Hi, David, it's Gracie. 855 00:39:36,774 --> 00:39:39,509 Can you give me a call at home? 856 00:39:39,510 --> 00:39:40,853 About the Whitney. 857 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,689 '85 was a big year. 858 00:39:52,690 --> 00:39:56,159 David had two major pieces in the Whitney Biennial. 859 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,027 I mean, that's amazing. 860 00:39:58,028 --> 00:40:00,697 Everything happened really fast. 861 00:40:00,698 --> 00:40:02,532 Hi, I want to make sure somebody told you 862 00:40:02,533 --> 00:40:03,933 you made the front page ox' the Washington Post 863 00:40:03,934 --> 00:40:05,969 on Sunday with the Biennial. 864 00:40:05,970 --> 00:40:08,872 A big reproduction of your piece, bye-bye. 865 00:40:08,873 --> 00:40:12,909 It was major for all ox' us to be accepted 866 00:40:12,910 --> 00:40:15,545 in the bigger art world 867 00:40:15,546 --> 00:40:17,414 bu! David wasn't, like, 868 00:40:17,415 --> 00:40:19,716 โ€œOh, my God, I got into the Whitney Biennial.โ€œ 869 00:40:19,717 --> 00:40:21,451 - Not at all. - MAN: N0. 870 00:40:21,452 --> 00:40:23,086 GRACIE. No, I mean, he really thought about 871 00:40:23,087 --> 00:40:25,188 whether he wanted to do it. 872 00:40:25,189 --> 00:40:28,658 MAN: David has a certain kind of political consciousness 873 00:40:28,659 --> 00:40:31,060 that plays into his work, who owns it, 874 00:40:31,061 --> 00:40:33,496 where it's shown, the whole thing. 875 00:40:33,497 --> 00:40:35,565 He was not particularly thrilled 876 00:40:35,566 --> 00:40:39,569 about a bunch oi' rich money capitalist people 877 00:40:39,570 --> 00:40:41,638 in the Whitney thinking that he was great. 878 00:40:41,639 --> 00:40:43,773 There's no gratification for that in him 879 00:40:43,774 --> 00:40:47,043 and those people are very classist and judgmental, 880 00:40:47,044 --> 00:40:49,879 he wanted to be recognized by people 881 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,648 that would appreciate his work, 882 00:40:51,649 --> 00:40:54,451 but the right people for the right reasons. 883 00:40:54,452 --> 00:40:57,490 You know, Peter Hujar had a tot of the same attitude. 884 00:41:02,827 --> 00:41:04,227 MAN: Yeah, that's the only good reason, like, 885 00:41:04,228 --> 00:41:06,463 that there's art stars, which are people 886 00:41:06,464 --> 00:41:09,468 who make tremendous amounts ox' money or whatnot. 887 00:41:15,606 --> 00:41:17,017 MAN: I agree. 888 00:41:24,515 --> 00:41:26,115 MAN". That's good. I mean, 889 00:41:26,116 --> 00:41:27,717 it's like they turned into - manufacturers. 890 00:41:27,718 --> 00:41:28,885 - There's-- - MAN: Yeah, I got-- 891 00:41:28,886 --> 00:41:30,153 MAN". --nothing human about it. 892 00:41:30,154 --> 00:41:33,156 There's no hope, and there's no - 893 00:41:33,157 --> 00:41:35,124 WOMAN: Hey David, did you know you're in New York Magazine? 894 00:41:35,125 --> 00:41:36,493 They did a review at the Biennial 895 00:41:36,494 --> 00:41:38,228 and they reproduced your piece 896 00:41:38,229 --> 00:41:40,063 but I also wanted to talk to you about the Mnuchin. 897 00:41:40,064 --> 00:41:43,099 Okay bye-bye- 898 00:41:43,100 --> 00:41:47,170 WOMAN: Adrian and Robert Mnuchin were two collectors. 899 00:41:47,171 --> 00:41:50,673 He was on Wall Street and she had a cashmere store 900 00:41:50,674 --> 00:41:52,141 and her name was Adrian. 901 00:41:52,142 --> 00:41:54,511 Now it's like Adriana or something. 902 00:41:54,512 --> 00:41:56,646 But anyway, at that time she was Adrian. 903 00:41:56,647 --> 00:41:58,815 They commissioned David and it was the most money 904 00:41:58,816 --> 00:42:01,150 that David had ever gotten tor anything to do 905 00:42:01,151 --> 00:42:04,220 this big installation in their basement. 906 00:42:04,221 --> 00:42:06,656 He needed the money so he was glad 907 00:42:06,657 --> 00:42:09,993 that t had made this sate but a part ox' him 908 00:42:09,994 --> 00:42:13,997 really was very unhappy about it. 909 00:42:13,998 --> 00:42:16,672 David didn't really like rich people. 910 00:42:18,536 --> 00:42:21,938 S0 he took all this garbage off of the street 911 00:42:21,939 --> 00:42:24,613 and put it into the installation. 912 00:42:27,578 --> 00:42:29,679 CARLO: They were scouring all the vacant lots 913 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,615 to grab the nastiest shit they could. 914 00:42:32,616 --> 00:42:34,717 You know, it looked like the plague had descended 915 00:42:34,718 --> 00:42:36,920 upon their place, basically filled it with trash 916 00:42:36,921 --> 00:42:38,788 and made a beautiful installation out of it 917 00:42:38,789 --> 00:42:41,958 but so much ox' it just looked like tetanus. 918 00:42:41,959 --> 00:42:45,328 WOMAN". And it had bugs. 919 00:42:45,329 --> 00:42:47,964 Adrian was like freaked out 920 00:42:47,965 --> 00:42:49,866 these bugs were being brought 921 00:42:49,867 --> 00:42:53,036 into her pristine brownstone. 922 00:42:53,037 --> 00:42:55,278 Ox' course David loved it, he brought in more. 923 00:42:57,341 --> 00:42:59,108 GRACE". David, hi, it's Gracie. 924 00:42:59,109 --> 00:43:01,144 I 'm just checking in, seeing how everything 's 925 00:43:01,145 --> 00:43:02,812 going with the installation, 926 00:43:02,813 --> 00:43:07,283 if you need any help, and what's up? 927 00:43:07,284 --> 00:43:09,352 Basically just a what's up call. 928 00:43:09,353 --> 00:43:11,220 Um, okay. 929 00:43:11,221 --> 00:43:13,565 I wanted to talk to you, okay, bye-bye. 930 00:43:15,326 --> 00:43:18,161 WOMAN: S0 when you look at the photographs Peter Huja 931 00:43:18,162 --> 00:43:21,164 took ox' that installation, it was all garbage, 932 00:43:21,165 --> 00:43:24,033 it was great like a lot ox' figures. 933 00:43:24,034 --> 00:43:25,868 There was the burning child 934 00:43:25,869 --> 00:43:28,071 and there was the big mural in the background, 935 00:43:28,072 --> 00:43:30,306 there was a tree and a lot of cow skulls. 936 00:43:30,307 --> 00:43:32,942 R was an incredible installation. 937 00:43:32,943 --> 00:43:36,813 MAN: Well, in retrospect, that was Mnuchin. 938 00:43:36,814 --> 00:43:40,149 The A-hole dealer whose son Steve Mnuchin 939 00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:42,630 is part ox' Trump's cabinet. 940 00:43:44,188 --> 00:43:46,789 I got really angry of that sudden attention, 941 00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:48,358 - money being thrown at me. - MAN". Yeah. 942 00:43:48,359 --> 00:43:50,259 DAVID: I was starving for years though here. 943 00:43:50,260 --> 00:43:52,996 And then it suddenly cross a line where what I make 944 00:43:52,997 --> 00:43:55,765 is feeding me, is-- it's giving me all this stuff 945 00:43:55,766 --> 00:43:58,301 but then I have all this hate about the structure of that 946 00:43:58,302 --> 00:44:00,069 - because it's so full of shit. - MAN". Yeah. 947 00:44:00,070 --> 00:44:02,105 DAVID: And this is something that rattled me. 948 00:44:02,106 --> 00:44:04,240 I realized that I came out ox' a totally violent 949 00:44:04,241 --> 00:44:06,676 fucked-up background growing up as a kid, 950 00:44:06,677 --> 00:44:08,778 came to New York, went out to the streets, 951 00:44:08,779 --> 00:44:10,647 almost died on the streets, 952 00:44:10,648 --> 00:44:12,749 but once you're economics are taken care of, 953 00:44:12,750 --> 00:44:14,250 once you don't no longer have to struggle, 954 00:44:14,251 --> 00:44:17,353 pay rent or eat, any shit that's underneath 955 00:44:17,354 --> 00:44:19,197 goes to the surface. 956 00:44:22,826 --> 00:44:25,695 PM". Hi Dave, this is Pat. 957 00:44:25,696 --> 00:44:29,432 I don't know ix' you're home or maybe you're sleeping, 958 00:44:29,433 --> 00:44:32,001 well, the first thing I wanna say 959 00:44:32,002 --> 00:44:35,805 is that your paintings are fantastic. 960 00:44:35,806 --> 00:44:39,676 I 'm so impressed, I'm so proud of you, 961 00:44:39,677 --> 00:44:41,911 t tried to take pictures but they wouldn't 962 00:44:41,912 --> 00:44:43,446 let me use the flash and I... 963 00:44:43,447 --> 00:44:45,281 STEVEN: Patty was always close to David. 964 00:44:45,282 --> 00:44:47,717 PAT: I love you a lot, bye. 965 00:44:47,718 --> 00:44:51,921 STEVEN". Even after we grew up, we were completely split up. 966 00:44:51,922 --> 00:44:54,323 So the first time r ever learned about his artwork, 967 00:44:54,324 --> 00:44:56,693 I picked up some magazines 968 00:44:56,694 --> 00:44:58,394 and there was David in Life Magazine. 969 00:44:58,395 --> 00:45:00,997 I was so much in awe with-- I was like, 970 00:45:00,998 --> 00:45:03,842 โ€œWow, look where this guy is at,โ€œ you know. 971 00:45:11,875 --> 00:45:13,843 I finally found a way to get in touch with him, 972 00:45:13,844 --> 00:45:16,212 it was an interesting thing to sit down with him, 973 00:45:16,213 --> 00:45:18,781 I came in New York and he started spewing m'? 974 00:45:18,782 --> 00:45:22,719 about he was a child prostitute, he's gay. 975 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:27,123 And t get the feeling that he was testing me. 976 00:45:27,124 --> 00:45:29,225 I think he was afraid 977 00:45:29,226 --> 00:45:33,196 that I would never accept him being gay. 978 00:45:33,197 --> 00:45:36,399 I just was glad that he was okay. 979 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,201 David, this is Sieve calling, 980 00:45:38,202 --> 00:45:40,403 I don't know if you need maps for your artwork 981 00:45:40,404 --> 00:45:43,806 but t just threw out about 5,000 ox' them today. 982 00:45:43,807 --> 00:45:46,909 I worked for AAA so he had free maps 983 00:45:46,910 --> 00:45:49,212 whenever he needed them, Yd make sure he got them. 984 00:45:49,213 --> 00:45:51,147 Maybe I can save you some money. 985 00:45:51,148 --> 00:45:54,751 Okay. Bye-bye- 986 00:45:54,752 --> 00:45:56,452 RICHARD: Hey David, this is Richard, you know, 987 00:45:56,453 --> 00:45:58,087 I just wanted to get together with you and talk about 988 00:45:58,088 --> 00:45:59,222 making a movie or something like that. 989 00:45:59,223 --> 00:46:01,396 I'm up, give me a buzz, bye. 990 00:46:03,393 --> 00:46:05,161 R was one ox' those nights 991 00:46:05,162 --> 00:46:07,263 David and I wanted to get high. 992 00:46:07,264 --> 00:46:10,233 I said, โ€œHey, why don't we try shooting ecstasy? 993 00:46:10,234 --> 00:46:11,804 We got some ox' that.โ€œ 994 00:46:15,973 --> 00:46:20,777 David and I got into this deep, deep conversation, I said, 995 00:46:20,778 --> 00:46:22,912 โ€œLet's make a movie where we try to figure out 996 00:46:22,913 --> 00:46:25,381 why young people are the way they are, 997 00:46:25,382 --> 00:46:29,018 the punks and all that stuff, and just shot a quick movie." 998 00:46:29,019 --> 00:46:30,887 I think we did it in a day. 999 00:46:30,888 --> 00:46:34,090 David played the father, Karen Finley played the mother, 1000 00:46:34,091 --> 00:46:36,292 it ended up being a lot ox' things 1001 00:46:36,293 --> 00:46:39,195 from David's childhood and he definitely had 1002 00:46:39,196 --> 00:46:41,264 the most fucked-up stories. 1003 00:46:41,265 --> 00:46:43,933 - Don't get away-- - Stop playing with your food. 1004 00:46:43,934 --> 00:46:45,568 Do you call this food'? 1005 00:46:45,569 --> 00:46:47,904 Look, it isn't even fucking cooked, it's all bloody. 1006 00:46:47,905 --> 00:46:49,405 Shut up. 1007 00:46:49,406 --> 00:46:51,307 RICHARD: David said that when he was a kid, 1008 00:46:51,308 --> 00:46:52,575 they had a rabbit. 1009 00:46:52,576 --> 00:46:54,210 STEVEN: My father got us rabbits 1010 00:46:54,211 --> 00:46:56,879 and he said he gave away the rabbits 1011 00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,582 and then Patty found out somehow 1012 00:46:59,583 --> 00:47:01,517 that he had them butchered and we winded up 1013 00:47:01,518 --> 00:47:04,487 eating our pet rabbit which I think was horrific. 1014 00:47:04,488 --> 00:47:06,856 And it really bothered David too. 1015 00:47:06,857 --> 00:47:09,838 - You know what this is'? - N0. 1016 00:47:11,562 --> 00:47:13,095 See that'? 1017 00:47:13,096 --> 00:47:14,831 That's my bunny, what are doing to it'? 1018 00:47:14,832 --> 00:47:17,533 And you know what this is'? 1019 00:47:17,534 --> 00:47:21,003 N0, no, no. 1020 00:47:21,004 --> 00:47:23,406 CYNTHIA: David finally was starting to deal 1021 00:47:23,407 --> 00:47:26,609 with what had happened to him during his childhood. 1022 00:47:26,610 --> 00:47:29,378 He started using heroin. 1023 00:47:29,379 --> 00:47:34,379 lt was almost a social drug in the East Village. 1024 00:47:34,484 --> 00:47:37,320 DAVID: I got so drunk that I 'm Wing around, 1025 00:47:37,321 --> 00:47:40,523 so I did it in the bathroom. 1026 00:47:40,524 --> 00:47:43,869 The light and everything just started making me feel sick. 1027 00:47:45,295 --> 00:47:46,996 STEPHEN KOCH: David took drugs in a way 1028 00:47:46,997 --> 00:47:49,632 that Peter was sure would destroy him. 1029 00:47:49,633 --> 00:47:53,102 And Peter knew too much about the way artists 1030 00:47:53,103 --> 00:47:55,371 can sabotage themselves to let them, 1031 00:47:55,372 --> 00:47:57,240 go one step further. 1032 00:47:57,241 --> 00:47:59,008 At some point, Peter said, 1033 00:47:59,009 --> 00:48:02,211 โ€œDavid, what are those marks on your arm?โ€œ 1034 00:48:02,212 --> 00:48:04,013 He said, โ€œOh, it's nothing.โ€œ 1035 00:48:04,014 --> 00:48:05,948 He said, "Don't tell me it's nothing 1036 00:48:05,949 --> 00:48:10,386 and you're going to stop taking heroin today, right now. 1037 00:48:10,387 --> 00:48:13,556 You will never take it again as long as you live 1038 00:48:13,557 --> 00:48:17,393 and if you do, I will never speak to you again, 1039 00:48:17,394 --> 00:48:19,328 you will be dead to me.โ€œ 1040 00:48:19,329 --> 00:48:22,932 FRAN: David started crying and he'd stopped heroin. 1041 00:48:22,933 --> 00:48:25,434 He never took it again because Peter was the most 1042 00:48:25,435 --> 00:48:29,205 important relationship in his life. 1043 00:48:29,206 --> 00:48:30,940 They first had an affair 1044 00:48:30,941 --> 00:48:34,076 but t don't think that tasted that tong. 1045 00:48:34,077 --> 00:48:36,545 And then they were friends but at a certain point, 1046 00:48:36,546 --> 00:48:39,615 I really thought of David as Peter's son. 1047 00:48:39,616 --> 00:48:41,284 Peter didn't think ox' him as Peter's son 1048 00:48:41,285 --> 00:48:42,485 and probably David didn't bu! to me, 1049 00:48:42,486 --> 00:48:44,397 that's what it seemed tike. 1050 00:49:11,515 --> 00:49:14,291 TOM RAUFFENBART: I met David at the Bijou Theater 1051 00:49:16,086 --> 00:49:18,566 which was a gay pom theater. 1052 00:49:20,190 --> 00:49:23,726 Our eyes met and we went to the bathroom 1053 00:49:23,727 --> 00:49:26,329 and had a little bit of sex and I said, 1054 00:49:26,330 --> 00:49:28,731 โ€œWhy don't you come over to my apartment?โ€œ 1055 00:49:28,732 --> 00:49:32,101 Which I rarely did with people ma! I me! mere, 1056 00:49:32,102 --> 00:49:35,338 but I was just fascinated with this guy. 1057 00:49:35,339 --> 00:49:37,974 We left and I asked David what he did and he said 1058 00:49:37,975 --> 00:49:39,342 he was a painter and I said, 1059 00:49:39,343 --> 00:49:41,310 โ€œWhat, ox' houses?โ€œ And he said, 1060 00:49:41,311 --> 00:49:42,745 โ€œNo, no, no, no, I paint things.โ€œ 1061 00:49:42,746 --> 00:49:44,647 And apparently he was quite well-known 1062 00:49:44,648 --> 00:49:46,515 in the East Village and I didn't know who he was, 1063 00:49:46,516 --> 00:49:48,384 I had no idea. 1064 00:49:48,385 --> 00:49:52,488 So he came over and we had a really sweet night. 1065 00:49:52,489 --> 00:49:54,190 He left me a little painting 1066 00:49:54,191 --> 00:49:56,292 that he did tor me that t realty loved. 1067 00:49:56,293 --> 00:49:59,137 And we started seeing each other. 1068 00:50:01,598 --> 00:50:04,500 I thought my world was very different after I met David. 1069 00:50:04,501 --> 00:50:07,703 I was totally swept up with him. 1070 00:50:07,704 --> 00:50:10,473 But here I am, heading out into the cold winds 1071 00:50:10,474 --> 00:50:12,541 ox' the canyon streets, walking down and across 1072 00:50:12,542 --> 00:50:14,176 Avenue C towards my home, 1073 00:50:14,177 --> 00:50:15,745 with the smelt and the taste of him 1074 00:50:15,746 --> 00:50:19,348 wrapped around my neck and jaw like some scarf. 1075 00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:21,384 And how it follows me in and out of restaurants 1076 00:50:21,385 --> 00:50:24,086 and past cops, and early morning children, 1077 00:50:24,087 --> 00:50:26,389 and passed bakery windows filled with brides and grooms 1078 00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:30,359 on rows, and rows, and rows, and endless wedding cakes. 1079 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:31,794 PETER: Hey juicy lips, are you there? 1080 00:50:31,795 --> 00:50:33,729 It's about 12:00.. 1081 00:50:33,730 --> 00:50:36,432 MAN: David kept talking about this best friend of his 1082 00:50:36,433 --> 00:50:39,268 that he had in the East Village and we had to go see him, 1083 00:50:39,269 --> 00:50:41,037 and his name was Peter and men Peter, 1084 00:50:41,038 --> 00:50:43,272 and a}! of a sudden I said, 1085 00:50:43,273 --> 00:50:45,041 โ€œAre you talking about Peter Hujar?โ€œ 1086 00:50:45,042 --> 00:50:46,809 And he said, โ€œWell, how did you know that?โ€œ 1087 00:50:46,810 --> 00:50:48,544 PETER". Howdy do, howdy do? 1088 00:50:48,545 --> 00:50:51,113 MAN: I said, "Well, I had a little affair 1089 00:50:51,114 --> 00:50:53,549 in the '70s with Peter for a month," 1090 00:50:53,550 --> 00:50:55,284 and I kept thinking, โ€œOh, great, 1091 00:50:55,285 --> 00:50:57,420 Peter's gonna tell him I'm an asshole." 1092 00:50:57,421 --> 00:51:01,257 But Peter thought actually that t was good tor David, 1093 00:51:01,258 --> 00:51:03,092 you know, that I could help David, 1094 00:51:03,093 --> 00:51:07,063 t could be a settling kind ox' thing tor him 1095 00:51:07,064 --> 00:51:09,098 which absolutely probably is true. 1096 00:51:09,099 --> 00:51:12,134 But they were so close that it was-- 1097 00:51:12,135 --> 00:51:13,669 I couldn't even describe what ma! was, 1098 00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:15,538 much different than our relationship 1099 00:51:15,539 --> 00:51:17,239 and I was just trying to figure out 1100 00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:18,641 where I fit in his life. 1101 00:51:18,642 --> 00:51:20,576 He said, โ€œI have three priorities, 1102 00:51:20,577 --> 00:51:24,146 in this order, Peter, my art, and you.โ€œ 1103 00:51:24,147 --> 00:51:26,415 And I had to find that to be okay, 1104 00:51:26,416 --> 00:51:29,218 it was hard at first but as I looked at it, 1105 00:51:29,219 --> 00:51:30,586 I realized there was no threat there. 1106 00:51:30,587 --> 00:51:32,421 This was a whole other thing. 1107 00:51:32,422 --> 00:51:35,426 [crowd cheering] 1108 00:51:37,794 --> 00:51:39,428 CARLO: Hi David, this is Carlo 1109 00:51:39,429 --> 00:51:41,397 wishing you a Happy New Year. 1110 00:51:41,398 --> 00:51:42,798 BRIDGETTE: Hi David, this is Bridgette, 1111 00:51:42,799 --> 00:51:45,501 I wanted to wish you Happy New Year. 1112 00:51:45,502 --> 00:51:47,703 MAN". Howdy do, howdy do? 1113 00:51:47,704 --> 00:51:49,405 R's the nufter. 1114 00:51:49,406 --> 00:51:51,140 And the monks last night were great, 1115 00:51:51,141 --> 00:51:52,308 you would've actually loved them. 1116 00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:53,876 I think there were 10 of them 1117 00:51:53,877 --> 00:51:57,279 and they sang in voices ma! was like, "Whoa." 1118 00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:58,447 You know, deeper than that. 1119 00:51:58,448 --> 00:52:01,183 โ€œOh, uh.โ€œ No, I can'! do R. 1120 00:52:01,184 --> 00:52:05,454 "Oh, hmm, uh. " 1121 00:52:05,455 --> 00:52:06,589 R was really nice, 1122 00:52:06,590 --> 00:52:09,425 they did a healing ceremony. 1123 00:52:09,426 --> 00:52:12,270 Well, anyway, that's all I have to say, goodbye. 1124 00:52:18,835 --> 00:52:20,903 F RAN : I took Peter to the doctor. 1125 00:52:20,904 --> 00:52:23,539 r don't remember what was wrong with Peter 1126 00:52:23,540 --> 00:52:27,309 or how Peter left that made him have that test. 1127 00:52:27,310 --> 00:52:29,145 They didn't tell you there. 1128 00:52:29,146 --> 00:52:31,280 R took Mo weeks for this test to come back. 1129 00:52:31,281 --> 00:52:35,918 And r remember very much ma! Peter called me, 1130 00:52:35,919 --> 00:52:37,920 and I can'! describe to you. 1131 00:52:37,921 --> 00:52:40,789 I said, "When-how?" And he goes, "Fran," 1132 00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:44,293 and then he made the sound like, um, like a-- 1133 00:52:44,294 --> 00:52:46,362 not a scream but kind of a scream. 1134 00:52:46,363 --> 00:52:48,464 R more sounded to me like an animal sound, 1135 00:52:48,465 --> 00:52:50,199 not like a human. 1136 00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,569 He said his test came back positive. 1137 00:52:53,570 --> 00:52:55,671 DAVID: When Peter was diagnosed with AIDS, 1138 00:52:55,672 --> 00:52:57,273 I came over 10 minutes later. 1139 00:52:57,274 --> 00:52:58,774 He went to meet me at the door 1140 00:52:58,775 --> 00:53:00,643 and there was some mail letter arrived 1141 00:53:00,644 --> 00:53:02,378 and it fell on the floor and I remember picking it up 1142 00:53:02,379 --> 00:53:03,946 and turned to him just to saying, 1143 00:53:03,947 --> 00:53:06,415 even something like getting a piece ox' mail 1144 00:53:06,416 --> 00:53:08,651 has an entirely different meaning. 1145 00:53:08,652 --> 00:53:11,487 And from that, t constructed something 1146 00:53:11,488 --> 00:53:13,661 ox' what this man is facing. 1147 00:53:18,662 --> 00:53:19,962 And I left very sad. 1148 00:53:19,963 --> 00:53:21,797 I felt angry. I felt fear. 1149 00:53:21,798 --> 00:53:25,701 I felt the possibility oi' my own diagnosis. 1150 00:53:25,702 --> 00:53:27,536 TOM". David was sitting at the table 1151 00:53:27,537 --> 00:53:28,938 and he was crying and I didn't know 1152 00:53:28,939 --> 00:53:30,673 what was going on and he told me 1153 00:53:30,674 --> 00:53:32,841 that Peter had been diagnosed with AIDS. 1154 00:53:32,842 --> 00:53:34,443 He was destroyed. 1155 00:53:34,444 --> 00:53:35,878 I mean, it was so emotional for him. 1156 00:53:35,879 --> 00:53:38,914 R was so upsetting. 1157 00:53:38,915 --> 00:53:40,716 ANITA VITALE: When Peter was diagnosed, 1158 00:53:40,717 --> 00:53:43,519 David asked me ix' I could help him 1159 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:45,554 because Peter really had no income. 1160 00:53:45,555 --> 00:53:47,723 He had no money. He had no--he had nothing 1161 00:53:47,724 --> 00:53:50,526 and he didn't wanna lose his apartment. 1162 00:53:50,527 --> 00:53:54,396 I worked as Director of New York City's AIDS Program. 1163 00:53:54,397 --> 00:53:57,633 And it was through Tom that t met David. 1164 00:53:57,634 --> 00:54:01,605 This was an epidemic or' great proportions. 1165 00:54:03,807 --> 00:54:06,709 And the city ignored it tor quite a white. 1166 00:54:06,710 --> 00:54:08,815 m fact, everyone ignored it. 1167 00:54:19,389 --> 00:54:21,890 People with AIDS who were getting sick 1168 00:54:21,891 --> 00:54:24,727 and losing their jobs, were coming to apply 1169 00:54:24,728 --> 00:54:28,564 for public assistance because AIDS 1170 00:54:28,565 --> 00:54:32,334 had a stigma already none of the traditional systems 1171 00:54:32,335 --> 00:54:34,403 and place wanted anything to do with them. 1172 00:54:34,404 --> 00:54:36,905 The staff wouldn't touch their paperwork. 1173 00:54:36,906 --> 00:54:40,251 They often died before they got any benefits at all. 1174 00:54:42,312 --> 00:54:45,581 Mayor Koch finally decided that something needed to be done. 1175 00:54:45,582 --> 00:54:48,951 He started a very little program and r have to say, 1176 00:54:48,952 --> 00:54:52,054 we probably broke every rule in the book 1177 00:54:52,055 --> 00:54:54,433 in order to get people what they needed. 1178 00:54:56,359 --> 00:54:58,827 So I went over like a good caseworker, 1179 00:54:58,828 --> 00:55:00,863 and I fell in love with him. 1180 00:55:00,864 --> 00:55:04,433 I mean, he was an amazing person. 1181 00:55:04,434 --> 00:55:07,469 I could certainly ease a lot of his fears, 1182 00:55:07,470 --> 00:55:09,938 he couldn't believe that he wouldn't lose his apartment 1183 00:55:09,939 --> 00:55:13,609 and he'd have some kind of income. 1184 00:55:13,610 --> 00:55:15,944 PETER". Hippity-hoppity happy Easter eggs. 1185 00:55:15,945 --> 00:55:18,981 This is Peter Cottontail. 1186 00:55:18,982 --> 00:55:21,462 This is the ex-Peter Cottontail. 1187 00:55:24,621 --> 00:55:25,954 Are you there? 1188 00:55:25,955 --> 00:55:27,990 Hello? Howdy do? 1189 00:55:27,991 --> 00:55:29,925 ANITA: Peter was prone to great depression, 1190 00:55:29,926 --> 00:55:32,928 I mean, he never took a photo after his diagnosis. 1191 00:55:32,929 --> 00:55:35,466 He gave it up entirely. 1192 00:55:44,874 --> 00:55:46,642 DAVID: A couple of times, I did confront him 1193 00:55:46,643 --> 00:55:48,510 because I thought he was stuck. 1194 00:55:48,511 --> 00:55:50,346 And that was the only time I allowed myself 1195 00:55:50,347 --> 00:55:51,814 to confront him when t thought that he was just 1196 00:55:51,815 --> 00:55:55,017 shutting down and so full ox' rage 1197 00:55:55,018 --> 00:55:57,931 and not strong enough to express it. 1198 00:56:07,997 --> 00:56:09,898 And I remember him threatening to throw himself 1199 00:56:09,899 --> 00:56:11,767 in front of a car because he was mad. 1200 00:56:11,768 --> 00:56:13,569 And he didn't have the strength to walk to the curb 1201 00:56:13,570 --> 00:56:17,072 and throw himself in front of the car. 1202 00:56:17,073 --> 00:56:19,608 He talked about killing himself endlessly brutally. 1203 00:56:19,609 --> 00:56:21,143 t wanna go to that building across the street 1204 00:56:21,144 --> 00:56:22,811 and jump off the roof and he would say, 1205 00:56:22,812 --> 00:56:24,813 "I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. " 1206 00:56:24,814 --> 00:56:26,982 And he would say it every day until one day we gave him 1207 00:56:26,983 --> 00:56:28,951 a number of a doctor who would give medicine 1208 00:56:28,952 --> 00:56:30,018 lo kill himself. 1209 00:56:30,019 --> 00:56:31,587 And once I gave him the number, 1210 00:56:31,588 --> 00:56:32,855 he tucked it away and never spoke 1211 00:56:32,856 --> 00:56:34,733 about killing himself again. 1212 00:56:51,641 --> 00:56:53,876 GRACE". David had like a huge career, 1213 00:56:53,877 --> 00:56:55,878 then when I did The Four Elements, 1214 00:56:55,879 --> 00:56:58,714 we didn't sell a thing. R was over. 1215 00:56:58,715 --> 00:57:00,983 SUR RODNEY SUR: The art world it very tickle like that. 1216 00:57:00,984 --> 00:57:03,986 Once you start in getting a certain amount oi' something, 1217 00:57:03,987 --> 00:57:08,657 you have to keep it going, or it fizzles out. 1218 00:57:08,658 --> 00:57:12,494 t had this naive sense that once people supported work 1219 00:57:12,495 --> 00:57:15,764 then, that doesn't just disappear that, you know; 1220 00:57:15,765 --> 00:57:17,633 that they'll watch what you do 1221 00:57:17,634 --> 00:57:19,968 and they'll take interest and they'll follow it, 1222 00:57:19,969 --> 00:57:22,805 which isn't the case at all. 1223 00:57:22,806 --> 00:57:25,908 CYNTHIA: It was the end of the East Village scene 1224 00:57:25,909 --> 00:57:28,510 and the so-catted East Village art 1225 00:57:28,511 --> 00:57:30,855 had just gone out ox' style. 1226 00:57:35,919 --> 00:57:37,786 - [phone beeps] - PETER: Hi, this is Hujar. 1227 00:57:37,787 --> 00:57:39,922 I'm on my way to the horse pistol 1228 00:57:39,923 --> 00:57:41,957 to stay there for a while. 1229 00:57:41,958 --> 00:57:46,161 I guess you can find my number by calling Cabrini Hospital. 1230 00:57:46,162 --> 00:57:48,597 Goodbye. 1231 00:57:48,598 --> 00:57:50,232 WOMAN: He lost weight. 1232 00:57:50,233 --> 00:57:53,135 He had the beginnings of dementia. 1233 00:57:53,136 --> 00:57:56,205 He just was kind of fading away. 1234 00:57:56,206 --> 00:57:57,940 DAVID: I'm sitting in this hospital room 1235 00:57:57,941 --> 00:58:00,776 so high up in the upper reaches ox' the building 1236 00:58:00,777 --> 00:58:03,178 and leaning against the glass to the window oi' his room 1237 00:58:03,179 --> 00:58:05,948 where I can see dizzily down into the street. 1238 00:58:05,949 --> 00:58:09,117 It's a gradual turn of the Earth outside the windows. 1239 00:58:09,118 --> 00:58:11,997 I wonder what it is to fall such distances. 1240 00:58:13,957 --> 00:58:17,192 I'm afield he's really dying. 1241 00:58:17,193 --> 00:58:21,530 And he barely opens his eyes for more than a few seconds. 1242 00:58:21,531 --> 00:58:22,965 And his breath was coming 1243 00:58:22,966 --> 00:58:27,269 in rapid fire bursts like machine gun. 1244 00:58:27,270 --> 00:58:29,805 A tum from the silence in the window and look at him 1245 00:58:29,806 --> 00:58:33,275 and an iris appears beneath one-half lifted eyelid 1246 00:58:33,276 --> 00:58:36,512 and its strength bores right through me. 1247 00:58:36,513 --> 00:58:38,080 And I turned away almost embarrassed 1248 00:58:38,081 --> 00:58:42,084 having as much life in me as he has. 1249 00:58:42,085 --> 00:58:42,451 - MAN: Stand up and fight. - MAN: Okay. 1250 00:58:42,452 --> 00:58:45,058 - MAN: Stand up and fight. - MAN: Okay. 1251 00:58:47,690 --> 00:58:50,526 WOMAN: It was Thanksgiving and I met David 1252 00:58:50,527 --> 00:58:53,228 in Peter's room at the hospital. 1253 00:58:53,229 --> 00:58:57,733 Ethyl Eichelberger was there and Peter was in a coma. 1254 00:58:57,734 --> 00:58:59,301 I mean, he really wasn't responsive 1255 00:58:59,302 --> 00:59:01,009 in any kind ox' way. 1256 00:59:03,907 --> 00:59:08,143 We're all sitting there and Ethyl says very quietly, 1257 00:59:08,144 --> 00:59:10,312 โ€œHe's not breathing anymore. 1258 00:59:10,313 --> 00:59:12,589 His chest isn't going up and down.โ€œ 1259 00:59:16,219 --> 00:59:18,053 We called the nurse in. 1260 00:59:18,054 --> 00:59:20,796 And the nurse said, โ€œYes, he had passed.โ€œ 1261 00:59:26,963 --> 00:59:28,697 And then David says, 1262 00:59:28,698 --> 00:59:30,575 โ€œCould you all leave me alone with him?โ€œ 1263 00:59:36,573 --> 00:59:38,340 DAVID: If I could attach our blood vessels 1264 00:59:38,341 --> 00:59:41,743 so that we would become each other, I would. 1265 00:59:41,744 --> 00:59:44,179 If! could attach our blood vessels 1266 00:59:44,180 --> 00:59:46,348 in order to anchor you to the Earth 1267 00:59:46,349 --> 00:59:49,990 to this present time to me, I would. 1268 00:59:51,754 --> 00:59:55,157 R makes me weep to feel the history m' you, 1269 00:59:55,158 --> 00:59:57,893 ox' your flesh beneath my hands 1270 00:59:57,894 --> 01:00:00,170 in a time of so much loss. 1271 01:00:02,131 --> 01:00:05,367 R makes me weep all these moments 1272 01:00:05,368 --> 01:00:09,145 will be lost in time like tears in rain. 1273 01:00:12,642 --> 01:00:14,815 Smell the flowers while you can. 1274 01:00:16,779 --> 01:00:20,816 TOM". When Peter died, I went out to dinner with Anita 1275 01:00:20,817 --> 01:00:24,152 and this nurse, he was talking about, 1276 01:00:24,153 --> 01:00:26,154 sometimes you could tell somebody was infected 1277 01:00:26,155 --> 01:00:28,090 because they'd get a String ox' Pearls 1278 01:00:28,091 --> 01:00:32,761 along your neck which was-- glands would smell up. 1279 01:00:32,762 --> 01:00:34,997 S0 while I'm sitting there, 1280 01:00:34,998 --> 01:00:37,099 running the fingers down my neck and sure enough 1281 01:00:37,100 --> 01:00:39,808 I have a String ox' Pearls, swollen glands. 1282 01:00:41,404 --> 01:00:44,306 I decided to get tested. 1283 01:00:44,307 --> 01:00:46,775 R came back positive. 1284 01:00:46,776 --> 01:00:49,344 t had pretty good T cell at that point. 1285 01:00:49,345 --> 01:00:51,713 I wasn't sick or anything. 1286 01:00:51,714 --> 01:00:54,316 David, he was very sympathetic and very supportive 1287 01:00:54,317 --> 01:00:56,051 but then at some point, I said, 1288 01:00:56,052 --> 01:00:57,653 โ€œYou know, you're being very supportive, 1289 01:00:57,654 --> 01:01:01,223 but you don't know your status.โ€œ 1290 01:01:01,224 --> 01:01:02,691 DR. BOB FRIEDMAN: The first time I savv David, 1291 01:01:02,692 --> 01:01:05,427 David had markers of infection, 1292 01:01:05,428 --> 01:01:07,429 ore! candidiasis, thrush. 1293 01:01:07,430 --> 01:01:09,798 Even have a competent immune system. 1294 01:01:09,799 --> 01:01:12,712 I don't think this came as a shock to David. 1295 01:01:16,973 --> 01:01:19,975 DAVID: Hi, I just woke up. 1296 01:01:19,976 --> 01:01:23,712 Waking up every hour 1297 01:01:23,713 --> 01:01:25,447 for the last, 1298 01:01:25,448 --> 01:01:27,724 I don't know, three or four hours. 1299 01:01:32,689 --> 01:01:35,090 So I was diagnosed with ARC 1300 01:01:35,091 --> 01:01:38,093 sometime in the summer. 1301 01:01:38,094 --> 01:01:41,697 Now near the end of November, 1302 01:01:41,698 --> 01:01:44,199 I'm living at Peter's house, Peter Hujar, 1303 01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,670 because t couldn't afford the other apartment that t had. 1304 01:01:56,746 --> 01:01:58,380 TOM". David came back positive 1305 01:01:58,381 --> 01:02:01,850 but his T cells were really ravaged. 1306 01:02:01,851 --> 01:02:03,385 David asked Dr. Friedman, 1307 01:02:03,386 --> 01:02:05,754 โ€œDo! have so few that! can name them?โ€œ 1308 01:02:05,755 --> 01:02:07,255 DR. BOB: Back then, the magic number 1309 01:02:07,256 --> 01:02:09,758 was 200 T cells. 1310 01:02:09,759 --> 01:02:13,729 If you could keep the patient at 200 T cells or higher, 1311 01:02:13,730 --> 01:02:16,932 they'd be less opportunistic infections. 1312 01:02:16,933 --> 01:02:19,334 TOM: He had less than a hundred when he was tested 1313 01:02:19,335 --> 01:02:21,403 so he was already in bad shape. 1314 01:02:21,404 --> 01:02:23,071 - [phone beeps] - GRACIE: Peter, hi. 1315 01:02:23,072 --> 01:02:25,107 R's-oh, Peter, oh, my God. 1316 01:02:25,108 --> 01:02:28,009 I'm looking at the name, what a... 1317 01:02:28,010 --> 01:02:31,513 unbelievable psychological slur. 1318 01:02:31,514 --> 01:02:34,049 This is Gracie calling for David. 1319 01:02:34,050 --> 01:02:35,817 He came in to the gallery and told us. 1320 01:02:35,818 --> 01:02:37,819 He was very quiet about it. 1321 01:02:37,820 --> 01:02:41,089 t mean, he came in and he said that he'd just been tested 1322 01:02:41,090 --> 01:02:43,291 and he found out that he had it. 1323 01:02:43,292 --> 01:02:45,360 R was devastating for me. 1324 01:02:45,361 --> 01:02:48,930 I mean, I felt very protective ox' David. 1325 01:02:48,931 --> 01:02:52,100 When Keith Haring came out about having AIDS, 1326 01:02:52,101 --> 01:02:54,970 it just seemed like everybody had to run, 1327 01:02:54,971 --> 01:02:57,773 buy something ox' his because he was gonna die ox' AIDS. 1328 01:02:57,774 --> 01:02:59,441 He had AIDS and he was gonna die. 1329 01:02:59,442 --> 01:03:02,911 It was so gross how Keith was treated 1330 01:03:02,912 --> 01:03:05,847 and how everything around him, what that was all about, 1331 01:03:05,848 --> 01:03:08,016 and I didn't want that for David. 1332 01:03:08,017 --> 01:03:10,285 I mean, I knew how private David was 1333 01:03:10,286 --> 01:03:14,990 and so when he told me, my first reaction was, 1334 01:03:14,991 --> 01:03:17,192 that we shouldn't tell anyone. 1335 01:03:17,193 --> 01:03:18,927 Which ox' course is the wrong response 1336 01:03:18,928 --> 01:03:20,295 to have with David. 1337 01:03:20,296 --> 01:03:22,397 That's when I picked up the phone 1338 01:03:22,398 --> 01:03:24,099 and called Barry Blinderman and said, 1339 01:03:24,100 --> 01:03:27,202 โ€œYou have to do this retrospective now, 1340 01:03:27,203 --> 01:03:29,838 like, now.โ€œ 1341 01:03:29,839 --> 01:03:32,841 [engine turbine whirring] 1342 01:03:32,842 --> 01:03:35,143 BARRY: He was right and that this is what I do, 1343 01:03:35,144 --> 01:03:37,212 books and retrospectives and... 1344 01:03:37,213 --> 01:03:40,015 that I was an avid fan of his work. 1345 01:03:40,016 --> 01:03:42,951 I bought the painting, Fuck You Faggot Fucker, 1346 01:03:42,952 --> 01:03:44,920 back in 1984. 1347 01:03:44,921 --> 01:03:47,322 There was an urgency to do the show 1348 01:03:47,323 --> 01:03:49,524 while he was alive. 1349 01:03:49,525 --> 01:03:52,894 I wrote a grant to the NEA, 1350 01:03:52,895 --> 01:03:56,064 got the grant worth $ 15,000 1351 01:03:56,065 --> 01:04:00,268 and started working with David planning the exhibition, 1352 01:04:00,269 --> 01:04:01,873 then the catalog. 1353 01:04:07,043 --> 01:04:09,044 t thought the phrase โ€œTongues ox' Flameโ€œ 1354 01:04:09,045 --> 01:04:11,179 was very appropriate. There's a biblical reference. 1355 01:04:11,180 --> 01:04:13,014 R's a reference to a play. R's a reference 1356 01:04:13,015 --> 01:04:14,282 to a silent movie. 1357 01:04:14,283 --> 01:04:16,484 But mostly Tongues of Flame, 1358 01:04:16,485 --> 01:04:20,355 I'm thinking what a-- an amazing orator he was. 1359 01:04:20,356 --> 01:04:22,224 t was thinking about the Burning Child, 1360 01:04:22,225 --> 01:04:24,192 t was thinking about the Burning House, 1361 01:04:24,193 --> 01:04:27,429 the incendiary aspect ox' it, the passion. 1362 01:04:27,430 --> 01:04:30,465 And it just seemed like everything that was connected 1363 01:04:30,466 --> 01:04:33,268 with David was on fire. 1364 01:04:33,269 --> 01:04:37,038 [music] 1365 01:04:37,039 --> 01:04:38,440 DAVID: One of the things that happened 1366 01:04:38,441 --> 01:04:40,876 after my diagnosis is this thing 1367 01:04:40,877 --> 01:04:43,111 ox' this may be the last work I do. So it's, like, 1368 01:04:43,112 --> 01:04:46,481 trying to focus everything and channel it into the square, 1369 01:04:46,482 --> 01:04:48,383 into this photograph, or into this thing 1370 01:04:48,384 --> 01:04:51,386 that it's all got to go in, all the anger, 1371 01:04:51,387 --> 01:04:54,289 all the emotions, all the thoughts. 1372 01:04:54,290 --> 01:04:58,026 I'm working on a series of sex images 1373 01:04:58,027 --> 01:05:02,264 that take environments like the sky, 1374 01:05:02,265 --> 01:05:05,367 the ocean, an airplane, 1375 01:05:05,368 --> 01:05:08,603 train movements, a forest, 1376 01:05:08,604 --> 01:05:10,572 and my superimposed, 1377 01:05:10,573 --> 01:05:15,377 a circle that has a very explicit sex act. 1378 01:05:15,378 --> 01:05:19,014 And most of them are homosexual acts. 1379 01:05:19,015 --> 01:05:21,996 [music] 1380 01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,488 DAVID: Outside of the sex series, 1381 01:05:26,489 --> 01:05:31,159 I placed these circular images inside the field of painting 1382 01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,662 and so for me the circles are like cells 1383 01:05:33,663 --> 01:05:36,298 and they contain information. 1384 01:05:36,299 --> 01:05:40,201 And I see them as microscopic views 1385 01:05:40,202 --> 01:05:43,972 so it's like looking into the interior ox' something, 1386 01:05:43,973 --> 01:05:48,276 like looking at a spot of blood and seeing the cells. 1387 01:05:48,277 --> 01:05:51,146 And I also see them as telescopic view 1388 01:05:51,147 --> 01:05:53,214 so that you could be looking through a telescope 1389 01:05:53,215 --> 01:05:56,051 and then that says something to me about surveillance, 1390 01:05:56,052 --> 01:05:57,986 seeing something from a distance. 1391 01:05:57,987 --> 01:06:01,089 I like the suggestions of all those things. 1392 01:06:01,090 --> 01:06:03,458 R's about discovery. 1393 01:06:03,459 --> 01:06:05,493 And I use dreams in my work. 1394 01:06:05,494 --> 01:06:07,228 Dreams are very important to me. 1395 01:06:07,229 --> 01:06:09,030 I usually write them down all the time. 1396 01:06:09,031 --> 01:06:12,400 The dreams are example oi' how the imagination 1397 01:06:12,401 --> 01:06:14,938 can bring all boundaries. 1398 01:06:16,305 --> 01:06:18,139 MAN". His iconography is based off 1399 01:06:18,140 --> 01:06:21,343 this profound sense he had that he could fry 1400 01:06:21,344 --> 01:06:23,745 to look at the universe. 1401 01:06:23,746 --> 01:06:26,283 Everything organic, 1402 01:06:27,650 --> 01:06:30,552 and everything manmade, 1403 01:06:30,553 --> 01:06:32,387 all the delights, and all the horrors, 1404 01:06:32,388 --> 01:06:35,290 and trying to put them together. 1405 01:06:35,291 --> 01:06:39,637 But every aspect of it would be deeply personal. 1406 01:06:44,166 --> 01:06:45,600 DAVID KIEHL: When Peter died, 1407 01:06:45,601 --> 01:06:48,236 David took photographs of the head, 1408 01:06:48,237 --> 01:06:50,238 the hands, and the feet. 1409 01:06:50,239 --> 01:06:54,009 There's a tradition ox' taking death masks 1410 01:06:54,010 --> 01:06:55,643 ox' someone important. 1411 01:06:55,644 --> 01:06:57,479 Hands are important because they're how 1412 01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:59,514 you physically interact with the world. 1413 01:06:59,515 --> 01:07:02,384 And then the feet, t think are very important. 1414 01:07:02,385 --> 01:07:04,386 And that goes back to the Old Testament 1415 01:07:04,387 --> 01:07:06,154 and the New Testament. 1416 01:07:06,155 --> 01:07:08,289 How do you read people, you watch their hands 1417 01:07:08,290 --> 01:07:10,525 but it's more important you watch their feet 1418 01:07:10,526 --> 01:07:12,563 because that's what anchoring you to the world. 1419 01:07:14,363 --> 01:07:16,331 And he find that all that all the way through 1420 01:07:16,332 --> 01:07:18,633 classic spiritual literature. 1421 01:07:18,634 --> 01:07:21,770 That iconic letting out ox' those images, 1422 01:07:21,771 --> 01:07:24,072 incorporating them into Peter who's our dead 1423 01:07:24,073 --> 01:07:28,209 with that text is really a call to arms. 1424 01:07:28,210 --> 01:07:30,378 DAVID: I was diagnosed with ARC recently 1425 01:07:30,379 --> 01:07:32,113 and this is after the last few years 1426 01:07:32,114 --> 01:07:34,149 of losing count of the friends and neighbors 1427 01:07:34,150 --> 01:07:36,751 who've been dying slow, vicious, unnecessary deaths 1428 01:07:36,752 --> 01:07:38,520 because fags, and dykes, and junkies 1429 01:07:38,521 --> 01:07:41,389 are expendable in this country. And at the moment, 1430 01:07:41,390 --> 01:07:44,292 at the moment of my 37-foot tall, 1431 01:07:44,293 --> 01:07:48,763 1,172-p0und man inside this six-foot body, 1432 01:07:48,764 --> 01:07:50,799 and all I could feel is the pressure. 1433 01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:53,401 All I can feel is the pressure and the need for relief. 1434 01:07:53,402 --> 01:07:55,537 PAT: David? R's Pat. 1435 01:07:55,538 --> 01:07:58,073 R's been too long and I want you to know 1436 01:07:58,074 --> 01:08:00,408 that I think of you and I love you a lot, 1437 01:08:00,409 --> 01:08:02,377 and I hope all is well. 1438 01:08:02,378 --> 01:08:04,079 DAVID: Last night I talked to my sister 1439 01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:08,149 for the first time in seven months I think. 1440 01:08:08,150 --> 01:08:11,097 I told her about my diagnosis and... 1441 01:08:12,288 --> 01:08:14,622 it was rough for me anyway. 1442 01:08:14,623 --> 01:08:16,762 I thought she handled it pretty well. 1443 01:08:18,294 --> 01:08:19,773 But then who knows. 1444 01:08:20,830 --> 01:08:22,697 I remember Pa! once say to me, 1445 01:08:22,698 --> 01:08:25,667 she will never get AIDS or something like that because, 1446 01:08:25,668 --> 01:08:27,602 โ€œFm not one of those people that ran around 1447 01:08:27,603 --> 01:08:30,505 to have sex with everybody.โ€œ 1448 01:08:30,506 --> 01:08:32,507 Then I remember I didn't correct her. 1449 01:08:32,508 --> 01:08:35,376 [chuckles] 1450 01:08:35,377 --> 01:08:37,254 I mean, how do you begin? 1451 01:08:40,649 --> 01:08:41,783 STEVEN". Dave, are you home? 1452 01:08:41,784 --> 01:08:43,422 R's Steve calling again. 1453 01:08:44,487 --> 01:08:45,620 OKAY' 1454 01:08:45,621 --> 01:08:47,789 BYE-bye. 1455 01:08:47,790 --> 01:08:50,558 After he had AIDS, we were fine 1456 01:08:50,559 --> 01:08:53,862 but there came that day when t catted him on the phone 1457 01:08:53,863 --> 01:08:56,731 when I told him our Aunt Helen was coming to visit. 1458 01:08:56,732 --> 01:08:58,733 Boy that set him oft. 1459 01:08:58,734 --> 01:09:01,236 DAVID: Look, if it comes out whether about my girlfriend 1460 01:09:01,237 --> 01:09:02,670 or we have girlfriends, 1461 01:09:02,671 --> 01:09:04,305 I 'm gonna tell him I 'm homosexual. 1462 01:09:04,306 --> 01:09:05,507 And if it comes up, H! tell him 1463 01:09:05,508 --> 01:09:07,375 that t have this virus. 1464 01:09:07,376 --> 01:09:09,244 h' it goes far enough, H! fucking confront him 1465 01:09:09,245 --> 01:09:11,546 and ask him why the fuck they let the psychotic 1466 01:09:11,547 --> 01:09:13,748 do this damage to us all these fucking years 1467 01:09:13,749 --> 01:09:16,217 and-and not do a fucking thing about it, 1468 01:09:16,218 --> 01:09:18,553 and like talk about their God and all this other shit 1469 01:09:18,554 --> 01:09:20,522 when they watched this guy what he did to us. 1470 01:09:20,523 --> 01:09:22,857 I'm tired of living these hes with these people 1471 01:09:22,858 --> 01:09:24,659 and I'm tired of hiding from these people 1472 01:09:24,660 --> 01:09:26,394 because I'm afraid of who I am 1473 01:09:26,395 --> 01:09:28,496 or because I have problems with who I am. 1474 01:09:28,497 --> 01:09:30,298 And I'm not gonna go through it anymore. 1475 01:09:30,299 --> 01:09:31,733 STEVEN". โ€œThis is not the place,โ€œ I said, 1476 01:09:31,734 --> 01:09:33,935 "if you wanna confront Aunt Helen, 1477 01:09:33,936 --> 01:09:36,538 then go to Detroit and confront her. 1478 01:09:36,539 --> 01:09:38,273 But you're not coming here.โ€œ 1479 01:09:38,274 --> 01:09:40,508 He went into a rage that frightened me. 1480 01:09:40,509 --> 01:09:42,677 DAVID: Don't insult me by inviting me to come 1481 01:09:42,678 --> 01:09:44,445 after the relatives leave. 1482 01:09:44,446 --> 01:09:46,848 That's right. Out ox' sight, okay? 1483 01:09:46,849 --> 01:09:49,751 Get the fuck out of our sight until it's comfortable, 1484 01:09:49,752 --> 01:09:51,786 until we can deal with you sitting here 1485 01:09:51,787 --> 01:09:55,924 with your homosexuality with your AIDS. 1486 01:09:55,925 --> 01:09:57,759 Yeah, right, sorry for myself. 1487 01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:00,228 I'm the one who's fucking dying, asshole. 1488 01:10:00,229 --> 01:10:02,397 I'm the one who's got to fucking confront things 1489 01:10:02,398 --> 01:10:04,699 before t go, and that's what t wanna do. 1490 01:10:04,700 --> 01:10:07,202 I wanna clear the fear out ox' my head. 1491 01:10:07,203 --> 01:10:09,604 STEVEN". R was so painful to me, 1492 01:10:09,605 --> 01:10:11,806 the way that he and t interacted. 1493 01:10:11,807 --> 01:10:13,708 If! could do it all over again, 1494 01:10:13,709 --> 01:10:16,311 I-I'd tried to do it a little differently. 1495 01:10:16,312 --> 01:10:18,713 DAVID: S0, are you afraid to tell your children I have AIDS ? 1496 01:10:18,714 --> 01:10:21,382 STEVEN". And then he starts saying, โ€œOh, your kids know 1497 01:10:21,383 --> 01:10:23,284 that you have a faggot for a brother? " 1498 01:10:23,285 --> 01:10:24,919 DAVID: That's not what I said. I said, "Are you afraid 1499 01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:26,654 to tell your kids I have AIDS?โ€œ 1500 01:10:26,655 --> 01:10:28,656 STEVEN: And I said, โ€œDavid, they're young.โ€œ 1501 01:10:28,657 --> 01:10:30,892 One's three years old, the other one's six. 1502 01:10:30,893 --> 01:10:32,961 DAVID: It's too messy for me to be in your fucking lives, 1503 01:10:32,962 --> 01:10:34,963 so save it. Save it, Steven. 1504 01:10:34,964 --> 01:10:36,564 I don't need this from you. 1505 01:10:36,565 --> 01:10:37,899 I don't need this kind of insult. 1506 01:10:37,900 --> 01:10:39,801 I fucking face this every day 1507 01:10:39,802 --> 01:10:42,637 and I don't need it from โ€œfamily? 1508 01:10:42,638 --> 01:10:44,005 You understand? 1509 01:10:44,006 --> 01:10:45,974 Well, let the conversation end, Steve. 1510 01:10:45,975 --> 01:10:48,343 We never see each other again. Goodbye. 1511 01:10:48,344 --> 01:10:50,278 [phone slams shut] 1512 01:10:50,279 --> 01:10:51,986 STEVEN: And then, I never saw him again. 1513 01:10:53,616 --> 01:10:57,518 [thunder rumbles] 1514 01:10:57,519 --> 01:10:59,787 DAVID: I feel pretty crazy recently 1515 01:10:59,788 --> 01:11:01,756 Bot ox' anxiety. 1516 01:11:01,757 --> 01:11:05,227 At some point I realize I was just afraid ox' dying. 1517 01:11:06,662 --> 01:11:08,863 Throughout all my life We tried to maintain 1518 01:11:08,864 --> 01:11:11,866 some kind ox' complete control ox' myself 1519 01:11:11,867 --> 01:11:13,735 and where We come from. 1520 01:11:13,736 --> 01:11:15,503 All I see is kid hustling 1521 01:11:15,504 --> 01:11:16,938 and all the scenes in the streets. 1522 01:11:16,939 --> 01:11:18,873 Sometimes it came close to deem, 1523 01:11:18,874 --> 01:11:21,476 and at times I nearly starved, 1524 01:11:21,477 --> 01:11:25,480 maybe a need more self-control, this--the mask, 1525 01:11:25,481 --> 01:11:29,784 this enormous rage that t carry or may carry 1526 01:11:29,785 --> 01:11:32,487 from all those experiences. 1527 01:11:32,488 --> 01:11:35,490 Like, because I fear and lost control ox' that rage, 1528 01:11:35,491 --> 01:11:37,792 H! still become indiscriminate 1529 01:11:37,793 --> 01:11:39,961 in terms of what it attacks. 1530 01:11:39,962 --> 01:11:43,698 But really and truly I think I'm afield of losing my mind 1531 01:11:43,699 --> 01:11:46,801 at some point to some degenerative disease 1532 01:11:46,802 --> 01:11:50,738 like meningitis, or seizures, or whatever. 1533 01:11:50,739 --> 01:11:54,976 I don't wanna lose touch with words. 1534 01:11:54,977 --> 01:11:58,646 I wanna be able to provoke some change 1535 01:11:58,647 --> 01:12:00,915 in whatever limited fashion 1536 01:12:00,916 --> 01:12:03,351 in people, in a person. 1537 01:12:03,352 --> 01:12:04,986 And I always had this fantasy 1538 01:12:04,987 --> 01:12:07,055 that ix' I were to ever become ill 1539 01:12:07,056 --> 01:12:10,558 and if I were to become so weak that I couldn't leave the house 1540 01:12:10,559 --> 01:12:12,894 which is another fear for me, 1541 01:12:12,895 --> 01:12:15,763 or at least be able to tell that if I could keep wording 1542 01:12:15,764 --> 01:12:18,066 even if it's with a pencil held between my teeth 1543 01:12:18,067 --> 01:12:20,902 touching each key letter for letter, 1544 01:12:20,903 --> 01:12:23,538 despite rage, despite illness, 1545 01:12:23,539 --> 01:12:26,713 despite pain, t hope that my mind... 1546 01:12:28,377 --> 01:12:29,913 continues. 1547 01:12:31,847 --> 01:12:34,382 MARION SCEMAMA: AIDS was revealing exactly 1548 01:12:34,383 --> 01:12:36,851 what society was about. 1549 01:12:36,852 --> 01:12:38,920 That was already there in his work, 1550 01:12:38,921 --> 01:12:41,589 he knew already what that world was about. 1551 01:12:41,590 --> 01:12:44,559 He knew the structure that sustained power. 1552 01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:46,961 He knew in the manipulation that people 1553 01:12:46,962 --> 01:12:48,996 would like to live differently. 1554 01:12:48,997 --> 01:12:50,898 So the illness became a weapon 1555 01:12:50,899 --> 01:12:53,801 against politics ox' the society. 1556 01:12:53,802 --> 01:12:55,937 DAVID: When I was diagnosed with this virus, 1557 01:12:55,938 --> 01:12:58,072 it didn't take me long to realize 1558 01:12:58,073 --> 01:13:01,876 I contracted a diseased society as web'. 1559 01:13:01,877 --> 01:13:03,678 CROWD: Stand tough, stand tall, 1560 01:13:03,679 --> 01:13:05,580 it's time to march on city hall. 1561 01:13:05,581 --> 01:13:07,582 REPORTER". Thousands of demonstrators demand 1562 01:13:07,583 --> 01:13:09,384 that New York City do more to help 1563 01:13:09,385 --> 01:13:11,018 those suffering from AIDS. 1564 01:13:11,019 --> 01:13:13,955 CROWD: Healthcare has arrived. Healthcare has arrived. 1565 01:13:13,956 --> 01:13:16,691 NARRATOR: The scene evoked memories of the '60s. 1566 01:13:16,692 --> 01:13:18,426 MAN: Civil rights or civil war'? 1567 01:13:18,427 --> 01:13:20,928 MAN: David and I went to Act Up meetings. 1568 01:13:20,929 --> 01:13:22,597 We marched with Act Up. 1569 01:13:22,598 --> 01:13:24,432 The city is dying. 1570 01:13:24,433 --> 01:13:25,833 DAVID: In some level, the most interesting thing 1571 01:13:25,834 --> 01:13:27,602 that they have is information 1572 01:13:27,603 --> 01:13:29,776 ox' what was happening in the hospitals. 1573 01:13:30,939 --> 01:13:34,142 [baby crying] 1574 01:13:34,143 --> 01:13:36,577 DAVID: They were strapping minority babies to beds 1575 01:13:36,578 --> 01:13:39,180 and giving hah' ox' them placebos. 1576 01:13:39,181 --> 01:13:40,882 Basically, they're stealing these babies 1577 01:13:40,883 --> 01:13:42,784 from their parents saying, 1578 01:13:42,785 --> 01:13:45,086 โ€œThis is the only way your baby can get treatment. 1579 01:13:45,087 --> 01:13:46,888 Sign this form,โ€œ 1580 01:13:46,889 --> 01:13:50,958 killing half of them purposely with placebos. 1581 01:13:50,959 --> 01:13:53,928 That atone t thought was so outrageous. 1582 01:13:53,929 --> 01:13:55,630 And all these information packets 1583 01:13:55,631 --> 01:13:57,732 were given to the media, I thought, 1584 01:13:57,733 --> 01:13:59,834 โ€œWell, Jesus, this will change everything.โ€œ 1585 01:13:59,835 --> 01:14:01,569 I mean, how naive I was. 1586 01:14:01,570 --> 01:14:03,671 CROWD: Forty-something dead per day. 1587 01:14:03,672 --> 01:14:05,540 Where was the help'? 1588 01:14:05,541 --> 01:14:10,541 SINGER: J" Don't treat me like a science toy J" 1589 01:14:10,579 --> 01:14:13,614 MAN". We went down to Washington when Act Up demonstrated 1590 01:14:13,615 --> 01:14:16,083 at the FDA. 1591 01:14:16,084 --> 01:14:18,553 REPORTER". Hundreds or' angry demonstrators 1592 01:14:18,554 --> 01:14:21,535 effectively shutdown the FDA today. 1593 01:14:22,524 --> 01:14:24,158 MAN". First in his land. 1594 01:14:24,159 --> 01:14:27,163 [music] 1595 01:14:30,699 --> 01:14:32,967 Demonstrators said the AIDS crisis and the - 1596 01:14:32,968 --> 01:14:34,869 continue to grow every day. 1597 01:14:34,870 --> 01:14:37,238 Charging that the government's response to the AIDS disease 1598 01:14:37,239 --> 01:14:38,873 is woefully inadequate, 1599 01:14:38,874 --> 01:14:40,908 they say the demonstrations will continue. 1600 01:14:40,909 --> 01:14:42,910 MAN: Until I die. 1601 01:14:42,911 --> 01:14:44,879 MAN". Act Up made these tombstones 1602 01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:46,981 and then laid down like we were dying. 1603 01:14:46,982 --> 01:14:48,816 [indistinct chatter] 1604 01:14:48,817 --> 01:14:50,685 CROWD: Fight until we die. 1605 01:14:50,686 --> 01:14:52,987 MAN". Behind the barricade. 1606 01:14:52,988 --> 01:14:54,121 Behind the barricade. 1607 01:14:54,122 --> 01:14:55,823 MAN". And so they arrested us. 1608 01:14:55,824 --> 01:14:57,992 Bu! it got headlines. 1609 01:14:57,993 --> 01:15:01,262 Photographs ox' the tombstones came up many times. 1610 01:15:01,263 --> 01:15:02,897 CROWD". One, two, three, Your. 1611 01:15:02,898 --> 01:15:04,799 Civil rights or civil war. 1612 01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:06,634 MAN: David got arrested a couple more times. 1613 01:15:06,635 --> 01:15:08,069 MAN: Civil rights or civil war. 1614 01:15:08,070 --> 01:15:09,704 DAVID: For my own taste, I would say 1615 01:15:09,705 --> 01:15:11,272 we got a little bit more violent, 1616 01:15:11,273 --> 01:15:13,508 expressive a little stronger. 1617 01:15:13,509 --> 01:15:16,010 That was one of the few things that people wit! respond to. 1618 01:15:16,011 --> 01:15:18,279 And I'm waking up more and more from daydreams 1619 01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:21,716 of tipping Amazonian blowdarts in 'infected blood' 1620 01:15:21,717 --> 01:15:23,284 and spitting them at the exposed necklines 1621 01:15:23,285 --> 01:15:25,052 oi' certain politicians. 1622 01:15:25,053 --> 01:15:27,288 I'm not gonna be polite. And fuck these people 1623 01:15:27,289 --> 01:15:29,290 that want me to be courageous. 1624 01:15:29,291 --> 01:15:32,226 You know, t resent that, โ€œOh, how great he was, 1625 01:15:32,227 --> 01:15:33,961 how courageous he was.โ€œ 1626 01:15:33,962 --> 01:15:36,197 All the way up to the end. 1627 01:15:36,198 --> 01:15:39,509 There's no expression in that other than silence. 1628 01:15:41,937 --> 01:15:44,739 DAVID: Somebody once said to me that if you spit 1629 01:15:44,740 --> 01:15:48,776 a piece of gum on the sidewalk, it's nothing, 1630 01:15:48,777 --> 01:15:51,245 but if ten people or a hundred people, 1631 01:15:51,246 --> 01:15:53,581 or a thousand people spit their gum 1632 01:15:53,582 --> 01:15:56,751 onto the same sidewalk people have to deal with it, 1633 01:15:56,752 --> 01:15:59,854 they become stuck in it when they walk {Waugh it. 1634 01:15:59,855 --> 01:16:02,657 And t see that as part ox' a relationship 1635 01:16:02,658 --> 01:16:04,592 with art. 1636 01:16:04,593 --> 01:16:08,062 When people put themselves on the line in their work, 1637 01:16:08,063 --> 01:16:10,965 whether it's music, writing, photography, painting, 1638 01:16:10,966 --> 01:16:14,702 or whatever in terms of Culture with a capital C, 1639 01:16:14,703 --> 01:16:17,805 they apply a tiny amount ox' pressure 1640 01:16:17,806 --> 01:16:20,808 against the system ox' control 1641 01:16:20,809 --> 01:16:23,611 that would willingly jump into fascism 1642 01:16:23,612 --> 01:16:26,881 if there wasn't enough pressure on its throat. 1643 01:16:26,882 --> 01:16:28,349 [music] 1644 01:16:28,350 --> 01:16:30,217 [beeping] 1645 01:16:30,218 --> 01:16:33,120 DAVID: We are born into a pre-invented existence 1646 01:16:33,121 --> 01:16:36,057 within a tribal nation of zombies. 1647 01:16:36,058 --> 01:16:38,626 The government has a day-to-day job, 1648 01:16:38,627 --> 01:16:41,162 maintaining an illusion oi' a one-tribe nation. 1649 01:16:41,163 --> 01:16:43,664 And inside of that one-tribe nation, 1650 01:16:43,665 --> 01:16:46,200 there's actually millions of tribes. 1651 01:16:46,201 --> 01:16:49,604 Historically minorities have always been expendable 1652 01:16:49,605 --> 01:16:50,845 in this country. 1653 01:16:52,274 --> 01:16:55,076 Historically, art was made 1654 01:16:55,077 --> 01:16:56,911 by certain classes ox' people 1655 01:16:56,912 --> 01:16:59,380 for a certain classes ox' people. 1656 01:16:59,381 --> 01:17:02,817 What I make in my work is a record ox' things 1657 01:17:02,818 --> 01:17:07,388 that challenges the record that we're given daily, 1658 01:17:07,389 --> 01:17:10,825 whether it's in the newspapers, to the television, 1659 01:17:10,826 --> 01:17:12,994 or through the politicians. 1660 01:17:12,995 --> 01:17:14,829 WOMAN: I chose to stay and fight. 1661 01:17:14,830 --> 01:17:17,276 I chose to stay and fight. 1662 01:17:23,338 --> 01:17:25,840 DAVID: If I were a violent person, 1663 01:17:25,841 --> 01:17:28,709 I would go into the Nation's Capitol 1664 01:17:28,710 --> 01:17:31,779 and start annihilating the people that I believe 1665 01:17:31,780 --> 01:17:34,949 responsible for this pie-invented existence, 1666 01:17:34,950 --> 01:17:37,863 but the originators are long dead. 1667 01:17:39,154 --> 01:17:40,921 The way things are set in motion 1668 01:17:40,922 --> 01:17:42,323 in terms ox' society, 1669 01:17:42,324 --> 01:17:44,358 it's like a machine that runs itself 1670 01:17:44,359 --> 01:17:47,895 that can't stop. It can run by itself, 1671 01:17:47,896 --> 01:17:51,332 think by itself, police enforce it, 1672 01:17:51,333 --> 01:17:53,334 - schools enforce it. - [bell ringing] 1673 01:17:53,335 --> 01:17:55,670 DAVID: Government officials enforce it. 1674 01:17:55,671 --> 01:17:59,006 Even the stupidity ox' large populations 1675 01:17:59,007 --> 01:18:01,308 enforce it. 1676 01:18:01,309 --> 01:18:04,654 MAN". Raise all the glory while we do it to them again. 1677 01:18:06,081 --> 01:18:10,785 [crowd chatter] 1678 01:18:10,786 --> 01:18:12,720 MAN: Cardinal O'Connor has helped tens of thousands 1679 01:18:12,721 --> 01:18:14,355 ox' people to the?! unnecessary deaths 1680 01:18:14,356 --> 01:18:17,391 through the denial of pertinent safe sex information. 1681 01:18:17,392 --> 01:18:19,960 He obviously prefers coffins to condoms. 1682 01:18:19,961 --> 01:18:22,697 - Safe sex information. - I know why we're here today. 1683 01:18:22,698 --> 01:18:24,298 This is Jesus Christ. 1684 01:18:24,299 --> 01:18:27,134 I am in front of St. Patrick's Cathedral on Sunday. 1685 01:18:27,135 --> 01:18:29,837 We're here reporting on a major AIDS activist 1686 01:18:29,838 --> 01:18:32,206 and abortion rights activist demonstration. 1687 01:18:32,207 --> 01:18:34,375 Inside, Cardinal O'Connor 1688 01:18:34,376 --> 01:18:37,044 is busy spreading his lies and rumors 1689 01:18:37,045 --> 01:18:39,213 about the position of lesbians and gays. 1690 01:18:39,214 --> 01:18:40,881 DAVID: They act as if-- because there's this 1691 01:18:40,882 --> 01:18:42,450 abstract flea ox' what religion is, 1692 01:18:42,451 --> 01:18:44,218 of what God is, 1693 01:18:44,219 --> 01:18:46,087 that this man is untouchable and he's not. 1694 01:18:46,088 --> 01:18:47,888 And this church can be shutdown 1695 01:18:47,889 --> 01:18:49,924 the same way he shuts down abortion clinics, 1696 01:18:49,925 --> 01:18:52,760 the same way he prevents people getting information 1697 01:18:52,761 --> 01:18:54,995 or making personal decisions about their life, 1698 01:18:54,996 --> 01:18:56,873 he can be shutdown. 1699 01:18:58,734 --> 01:19:00,000 ls the green light on? 1700 01:19:00,001 --> 01:19:01,435 PHIL: Green light's not on but, uh-- 1701 01:19:01,436 --> 01:19:03,204 - DAVID: Let's see this. - PHIL: Yeah. 1702 01:19:03,205 --> 01:19:04,739 - The green light's on. - DAVID: Yeah. S0 it's on. 1703 01:19:04,740 --> 01:19:06,373 - PHIL: It's rolling'? - DAVID: Yeah. 1704 01:19:06,374 --> 01:19:08,976 PHIL: East Germany today took down the Berlin Wall. 1705 01:19:08,977 --> 01:19:11,746 BARRY". Back at that time, David had a big body ox' work 1706 01:19:11,747 --> 01:19:14,348 and it was really strong stuff bu! his career, 1707 01:19:14,349 --> 01:19:16,317 kind of, flattened out. 1708 01:19:16,318 --> 01:19:20,087 The publicity from his contribution to the catalogue 1709 01:19:20,088 --> 01:19:22,056 for Witnesses." Against Our Vanishing. 1710 01:19:22,057 --> 01:19:24,158 And Artists Space was what brought him 1711 01:19:24,159 --> 01:19:26,060 to the national stage, 1712 01:19:26,061 --> 01:19:29,263 and it wasn't for an artwork, it was for an essay 1713 01:19:29,264 --> 01:19:31,766 that he wrote in the catalogue. 1714 01:19:31,767 --> 01:19:33,300 DAVID: I... 1715 01:19:33,301 --> 01:19:35,069 I wouldn't say derogatory, you know, 1716 01:19:35,070 --> 01:19:36,971 I don't think I'm-I'm being that critical. 1717 01:19:36,972 --> 01:19:39,907 NAN GOLDIN: I asked David to write for the catalogue. 1718 01:19:39,908 --> 01:19:41,475 There aren't such intense people 1719 01:19:41,476 --> 01:19:43,978 in the world anymore. But he was a genius 1720 01:19:43,979 --> 01:19:47,248 which I don't use for anyone else I can think ox'. 1721 01:19:47,249 --> 01:19:49,884 BARRY". David's essay was talking about 1722 01:19:49,885 --> 01:19:53,988 how the imagination was the last frontier 1723 01:19:53,989 --> 01:19:56,490 for creative freedom, 1724 01:19:56,491 --> 01:19:58,993 that in his imagination 1725 01:19:58,994 --> 01:20:01,562 he can douse Jesse Helms with gasoline 1726 01:20:01,563 --> 01:20:05,099 and set his putrid ass on fire, I quote, 1727 01:20:05,100 --> 01:20:09,069 or throw William Dannemeyer off the Empire State Building 1728 01:20:09,070 --> 01:20:12,239 and made a reference to Cardinal O'Connor, 1729 01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:13,941 total enemy of the state, 1730 01:20:13,942 --> 01:20:17,945 called him that fat cannibal in skirts 1731 01:20:17,946 --> 01:20:20,449 in the house ox' walking swastikas. 1732 01:20:21,817 --> 01:20:25,052 Now, this didn't play well. 1733 01:20:25,053 --> 01:20:27,054 With the establishment. 1734 01:20:27,055 --> 01:20:29,390 Tonight the Manhattan Art Exhibit about AIDS 1735 01:20:29,391 --> 01:20:31,158 is losing a lot of federal money 1736 01:20:31,159 --> 01:20:33,494 because of what will be shown in the exhibit. 1737 01:20:33,495 --> 01:20:35,462 The chairman of the NEA states, 1738 01:20:35,463 --> 01:20:37,598 โ€œWe find that a large portion of the content 1739 01:20:37,599 --> 01:20:40,334 is political rather than artistic in nature." 1740 01:20:40,335 --> 01:20:43,003 It is the fact that I maybe dying 0f AIDS in 1989, 1741 01:20:43,004 --> 01:20:44,438 is that not political? 1742 01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:46,407 It is a fact that I don't have health insurance 1743 01:20:46,408 --> 01:20:48,576 and I don't have access to adequate healthcare, 1744 01:20:48,577 --> 01:20:51,946 is that not political? 1745 01:20:51,947 --> 01:20:54,949 And I, you know, I think that says it clearly. 1746 01:20:54,950 --> 01:20:58,219 BARRY". This is Washington and Helms was on a rampage. 1747 01:20:58,220 --> 01:21:00,321 He'd already racked up Mapplethorpe, 1748 01:21:00,322 --> 01:21:02,523 got him to court room to cancel their show. 1749 01:21:02,524 --> 01:21:04,458 He'd already racked up Piss Christ. 1750 01:21:04,459 --> 01:21:06,360 I mean, this was the time 1751 01:21:06,361 --> 01:21:08,896 and they were looking for the trifecta, 1752 01:21:08,897 --> 01:21:11,065 the third thing, and David Wojnarowicz 1753 01:21:11,066 --> 01:21:12,499 was perfect for this. 1754 01:21:12,500 --> 01:21:15,970 This senator is unwilling to spend one penny. 1755 01:21:15,971 --> 01:21:18,205 I'm sad to see that, um, 1756 01:21:18,206 --> 01:21:21,375 Congress might not feel that this show 1757 01:21:21,376 --> 01:21:24,178 should be supported by any American taxpayer. 1758 01:21:24,179 --> 01:21:27,214 Is this about homophobia or what is it about? 1759 01:21:27,215 --> 01:21:29,016 I--I'm confused by it. 1760 01:21:29,017 --> 01:21:30,451 PHIL: What are you thinking about? 1761 01:21:30,452 --> 01:21:32,386 Uh, no. lt's just that, uh, you know, 1762 01:21:32,387 --> 01:21:34,655 when I'm talking to this journalist from the "lime. 1763 01:21:34,656 --> 01:21:36,924 N0, he said that the NEA is claiming 1764 01:21:36,925 --> 01:21:38,525 that what I said was horrible, monstrous, 1765 01:21:38,526 --> 01:21:40,461 you know, inflammatory, this, that. 1766 01:21:40,462 --> 01:21:42,997 And most terrible things that they can't even repeat them. 1767 01:21:42,998 --> 01:21:45,232 And I said like, โ€œA study done in the art violence 1768 01:21:45,233 --> 01:21:48,135 in America found that there was increasing numbers 1769 01:21:48,136 --> 01:21:50,271 of homosexual teenagers that were murdered 1770 01:21:50,272 --> 01:21:51,538 or beaten up. 1771 01:21:51,539 --> 01:21:53,474 And that Dannemeyer tried to supress 1772 01:21:53,475 --> 01:21:55,075 that pan of the study 1773 01:21:55,076 --> 01:21:57,077 because it contained the word homosexual. 1774 01:21:57,078 --> 01:22:00,281 Therefore, William Dannemeyer condones the murder 1775 01:22:00,282 --> 01:22:03,117 and terrorizing or' homosexual teenagers 1776 01:22:03,118 --> 01:22:05,085 and no gesture, I could make it 1777 01:22:05,086 --> 01:22:08,555 even approximate the violence of what these people have done. 1778 01:22:08,556 --> 01:22:12,559 I'm not gonna sit still and be silent about it. 1779 01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:14,395 PHIL: How heroic. 1780 01:22:14,396 --> 01:22:16,171 To the barricades! 1781 01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:34,081 PHIL: But what's happening now'? 1782 01:22:34,082 --> 01:22:35,416 DAVID: Uh, Susan called out 1783 01:22:35,417 --> 01:22:37,017 and it turns out that, uh, 1784 01:22:37,018 --> 01:22:38,585 the NEA approached Susan 1785 01:22:38,586 --> 01:22:40,654 and now they're doing a pint press conference 1786 01:22:40,655 --> 01:22:43,157 issuing statements and Susan does this - 1787 01:22:43,158 --> 01:22:46,293 liberal motherfucking stance of here, 1788 01:22:46,294 --> 01:22:47,394 "I think there are certain issues 1789 01:22:47,395 --> 01:22:49,163 that are not resolved here ." 1790 01:22:49,164 --> 01:22:51,031 And I said, โ€œWhat the fuck are you doing?โ€œ 1791 01:22:51,032 --> 01:22:54,134 I said, "These assholes have themselves against the wall 1792 01:22:54,135 --> 01:22:56,203 over all these issues, over a homophobia, 1793 01:22:56,204 --> 01:22:58,072 legislative silence of homosexuals 1794 01:22:58,073 --> 01:22:59,740 and lesbians in this country. 1795 01:22:59,741 --> 01:23:02,109 What you're doing is you're avoiding the whole fucking thing 1796 01:23:02,110 --> 01:23:04,378 for your funding as if you're a collaborator. 1797 01:23:04,379 --> 01:23:06,480 You and your whore and it's indicative 1798 01:23:06,481 --> 01:23:09,717 of the whole fucking art world. 1799 01:23:09,718 --> 01:23:12,119 PHIL: David was more skeptical 1800 01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:14,088 and more negative about the art world 1801 01:23:14,089 --> 01:23:15,756 than he was about Jesse Helms 1802 01:23:15,757 --> 01:23:17,758 because he thought that curators of the art work! 1803 01:23:17,759 --> 01:23:21,328 hid art with queer ideas 1804 01:23:21,329 --> 01:23:25,466 and just anything that was out of the White one-tribe nation 1805 01:23:25,467 --> 01:23:27,701 as he said was being censored by the museum. 1806 01:23:27,702 --> 01:23:30,371 You didn't need Jesse Helms and people like that 1807 01:23:30,372 --> 01:23:34,074 because the museums were already doing the job for you. 1808 01:23:34,075 --> 01:23:35,486 Okay, thanks. 1809 01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:40,150 Okay- 1810 01:23:41,483 --> 01:23:42,553 Okay- 1811 01:23:46,588 --> 01:23:48,155 PHIL: What happened'? 1812 01:23:48,156 --> 01:23:50,295 She's fine. She's, like, uh... 1813 01:23:51,726 --> 01:23:54,728 She said that she could stay in her statement 1814 01:23:54,729 --> 01:23:58,332 that this is a failure of the government 1815 01:23:58,333 --> 01:24:02,403 to confront homophobia in the society, 1816 01:24:02,404 --> 01:24:05,706 the legislation into silence of homosexuals. 1817 01:24:05,707 --> 01:24:10,344 And it's the failure to provide safe sex information 1818 01:24:10,345 --> 01:24:11,612 people with AIDS so that-uh, 1819 01:24:11,613 --> 01:24:14,685 so they can make informed decisions. 1820 01:24:16,284 --> 01:24:17,718 PHIL: Did she say that to the press'? 1821 01:24:17,719 --> 01:24:19,353 This is her statement. 1822 01:24:19,354 --> 01:24:23,290 She's--and that she's gonna thank me, uh, 1823 01:24:23,291 --> 01:24:25,059 from the bottom other heart, 1824 01:24:25,060 --> 01:24:27,506 uh, for what she's learned. 1825 01:24:33,635 --> 01:24:36,548 I feel, you know, I feel pretty emotional about it. 1826 01:24:40,241 --> 01:24:41,652 Oh, man. 1827 01:24:43,611 --> 01:24:46,615 [music] 1828 01:24:51,386 --> 01:24:53,754 MAN: This show does contain 10 years of work 1829 01:24:53,755 --> 01:24:57,124 starting with David's early street stencil pieces 1830 01:24:57,125 --> 01:24:59,660 to work that was just made yesterday 1831 01:24:59,661 --> 01:25:01,295 especially for this gallery. 1832 01:25:01,296 --> 01:25:02,663 S0 without further ado, 1833 01:25:02,664 --> 01:25:04,731 I like to introduce David Wojnarowicz. 1834 01:25:04,732 --> 01:25:07,736 [applause] 1835 01:25:11,573 --> 01:25:14,241 DAVID: Thanks a lot for coming tonight. 1836 01:25:14,242 --> 01:25:17,411 I don't think anybody expected a crowd into this. 1837 01:25:17,412 --> 01:25:19,346 This is kind of strange and emotional for me 1838 01:25:19,347 --> 01:25:20,647 to be standing in a room 1839 01:25:20,648 --> 01:25:23,283 filled with artifacts of my life. 1840 01:25:23,284 --> 01:25:25,252 Each painting, photograph, and sculpture 1841 01:25:25,253 --> 01:25:27,754 has built into it a particular frame of mind 1842 01:25:27,755 --> 01:25:29,289 that only I can know 1843 01:25:29,290 --> 01:25:30,757 given that I've always felt alienated 1844 01:25:30,758 --> 01:25:33,427 in this country we call America. 1845 01:25:33,428 --> 01:25:36,597 If I say I'm homosexual, is that something new to you? 1846 01:25:36,598 --> 01:25:38,632 Does that make you nervous? 1847 01:25:38,633 --> 01:25:40,467 D0 you think it would be a crime, 1848 01:25:40,468 --> 01:25:42,202 the denial of information and only kill people 1849 01:25:42,203 --> 01:25:43,670 that you didn't feel comfortable with? 1850 01:25:43,671 --> 01:25:45,305 Do you stop to get to know the person 1851 01:25:45,306 --> 01:25:46,807 you sit or walk next to in the school? 1852 01:25:46,808 --> 01:25:48,575 Do you make it comfortable tor that person 1853 01:25:48,576 --> 01:25:51,211 to express ideas that might change your ideas? 1854 01:25:51,212 --> 01:25:52,479 And I wake up every morning. 1855 01:25:52,480 --> 01:25:53,881 I wake up every morning 1856 01:25:53,882 --> 01:25:55,816 of this killing machine called America. 1857 01:25:55,817 --> 01:25:58,285 And I carry this rage like a blood-filled egg 1858 01:25:58,286 --> 01:26:01,455 as each T-cell disappears from my body 1859 01:26:01,456 --> 01:26:03,423 is replaced by 10 pounds of pressure, 1860 01:26:03,424 --> 01:26:05,192 10 pounds of rage. 1861 01:26:05,193 --> 01:26:07,728 And t focus that rage is not in my resistance 1862 01:26:07,729 --> 01:26:09,630 but the focus is starting stow 1863 01:26:09,631 --> 01:26:12,232 and the egg is starting to crack. 1864 01:26:12,233 --> 01:26:13,233 Thank you. 1865 01:26:13,234 --> 01:26:14,635 [applause] 1866 01:26:14,636 --> 01:26:16,870 P H I L: David became the local hero 1867 01:26:16,871 --> 01:26:21,608 in a town that needed a voice like this so badly. 1868 01:26:21,609 --> 01:26:23,477 DAVID: When I first went out there, 1869 01:26:23,478 --> 01:26:25,679 I knew that it was like a fairly conservative town. 1870 01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:27,814 t mean, t had fantasies ox' people with torch 1871 01:26:27,815 --> 01:26:29,453 storming the gallery. 1872 01:26:31,352 --> 01:26:32,953 And the days that followed, 1873 01:26:32,954 --> 01:26:34,388 people would come running over to talk to me 1874 01:26:34,389 --> 01:26:36,256 when they spotted me. 1875 01:26:36,257 --> 01:26:40,260 R was an extremely emotional positive response. 1876 01:26:40,261 --> 01:26:41,662 BARRY". I should probably tell you 1877 01:26:41,663 --> 01:26:43,964 how the controversy happened 1878 01:26:43,965 --> 01:26:47,534 about a month into the show. 1879 01:26:47,535 --> 01:26:49,937 There was one page in the book. โ€œwas a black and while, 1880 01:26:49,938 --> 01:26:54,775 homage to Jean Genet who is one of David's heroes. 1881 01:26:54,776 --> 01:26:56,677 I didn't know it was in color. 1882 01:26:56,678 --> 01:26:58,278 He just gave us the black and white 1883 01:26:58,279 --> 01:27:00,847 when we put it in the book. 1884 01:27:00,848 --> 01:27:04,418 Jean Genet has a plate over his head that looks like a halo. 1885 01:27:04,419 --> 01:27:06,820 There's angels with Tommy Guns, 1886 01:27:06,821 --> 01:27:08,855 and in the right-hand comer, 1887 01:27:08,856 --> 01:27:11,959 there's a picture of Jesus Christ 1888 01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:14,338 with a hypodermic on his arm. 1889 01:27:16,364 --> 01:27:18,232 It didn't make no never mind to me, 1890 01:27:18,233 --> 01:27:21,401 but one of the people that got ahotd of the book 1891 01:27:21,402 --> 01:27:22,636 was Dana Rohrabacher, 1892 01:27:22,637 --> 01:27:23,770 the right wing politician 1893 01:27:23,771 --> 01:27:26,615 from Orange County, California. 1894 01:27:31,980 --> 01:27:36,450 Rohrabacher put together a screed 1895 01:27:36,451 --> 01:27:40,020 with a Xerox image of Christ with injectable 1896 01:27:40,021 --> 01:27:41,822 talking about, 1897 01:27:41,823 --> 01:27:44,791 โ€œYou know what your NEA money is going for, 1898 01:27:44,792 --> 01:27:47,394 15,000 wen! to a show 1899 01:27:47,395 --> 01:27:51,565 that has anal and oral homosexual sex, 1900 01:27:51,566 --> 01:27:52,866 it's like a circus. 1901 01:27:52,867 --> 01:27:55,435 This exhibition, Tongues of Flame 1902 01:27:55,436 --> 01:27:59,439 is an orgy of degenerate depravity. " 1903 01:27:59,440 --> 01:28:02,444 [music] 1904 01:28:14,289 --> 01:28:17,057 BARRY: Then I started getting letters and threats 1905 01:28:17,058 --> 01:28:20,360 from people to the university saying, 1906 01:28:20,361 --> 01:28:21,928 โ€œWe hear you have this exhibition 1907 01:28:21,929 --> 01:28:25,499 that is morally unacceptable.โ€œ 1908 01:28:25,500 --> 01:28:27,571 People would come to the show. 1909 01:28:30,371 --> 01:28:32,806 And Yd end up having contest with them 1910 01:28:32,807 --> 01:28:34,474 about who can quote me Bible better, 1911 01:28:34,475 --> 01:28:36,310 me or them. 1912 01:28:36,311 --> 01:28:37,711 I'm frying to explain to them 1913 01:28:37,712 --> 01:28:39,479 that Jesus was the man of sorrows 1914 01:28:39,480 --> 01:28:41,782 and he was here to cleanse us of our sins. 1915 01:28:41,783 --> 01:28:44,985 And if that meant taking on the pain ox' a junky, 1916 01:28:44,986 --> 01:28:47,330 then that's what Christ would have to do. 1917 01:28:49,324 --> 01:28:51,326 [music] 1918 01:28:55,096 --> 01:28:56,730 BARRY". And a}! of a sudden, 1919 01:28:56,731 --> 01:28:59,966 I get a copy ox' a Mo-page pamphlet 1920 01:28:59,967 --> 01:29:03,804 that has excerpts ox' David's greatest hit 1921 01:29:03,805 --> 01:29:05,405 from Donald Willdmon 1922 01:29:05,406 --> 01:29:09,343 and the American Family Association. 1923 01:29:09,344 --> 01:29:13,480 Donald Wildmon got Pepsi to stop using Madonna 1924 01:29:13,481 --> 01:29:16,917 as a spokesperson because ox' cones that she was wearing 1925 01:29:16,918 --> 01:29:20,020 and she was being anti-religious 1926 01:29:20,021 --> 01:29:21,555 and it would only - have been sent 1927 01:29:21,556 --> 01:29:23,490 thousands ox' church-goers 1928 01:29:23,491 --> 01:29:25,992 and any senator or congressman 1929 01:29:25,993 --> 01:29:28,695 who hadn't gotten it from Rohrabacher. 1930 01:29:28,696 --> 01:29:31,865 I sent that to David and I said, 1931 01:29:31,866 --> 01:29:33,433 "Look at this." 1932 01:29:33,434 --> 01:29:36,813 And that's when the shit - 1933 01:29:38,706 --> 01:29:41,508 [music] 1934 01:29:41,509 --> 01:29:43,543 TERRY GROSS". Coming up, Wojnarowicz explains 1935 01:29:43,544 --> 01:29:45,912 why he's suing a group that's trying to cut off 1936 01:29:45,913 --> 01:29:47,748 government funding of the arts. 1937 01:29:47,749 --> 01:29:50,083 DAVID: Donald Wildmon went through a catalogue, 1938 01:29:50,084 --> 01:29:51,885 went through it with a pa?! ox' scissors. 1939 01:29:51,886 --> 01:29:54,388 He searched out what he perceived to be 1940 01:29:54,389 --> 01:29:56,690 tiny details oi' paintings or photographs 1941 01:29:56,691 --> 01:29:59,593 that involved in the portrayal ox' sexual activity. 1942 01:29:59,594 --> 01:30:03,096 Sometimes, using less than Mo percent ox' a single painting, 1943 01:30:03,097 --> 01:30:07,401 it represented these mutilated fragments as my work. 1944 01:30:07,402 --> 01:30:10,404 TERRY". This week, Wojnarowicz took Wildmon to court 1945 01:30:10,405 --> 01:30:12,105 for violating his copyright 1946 01:30:12,106 --> 01:30:15,609 and distorting his work by taking it out oi' context. 1947 01:30:15,610 --> 01:30:20,610 WENDY OLSOFF: What I remember was the whole courtroom 1948 01:30:20,615 --> 01:30:23,717 completely full of artists and friends of David, 1949 01:30:23,718 --> 01:30:25,752 and Reverend Wiidmon sitting there 1950 01:30:25,753 --> 01:30:26,920 like he was in hell, like in his mind 1951 01:30:26,921 --> 01:30:29,890 in the most awful place 1952 01:30:29,891 --> 01:30:31,925 that the Lord could have possibly put him 1953 01:30:31,926 --> 01:30:34,628 through as full of sinners and Sodomites 1954 01:30:34,629 --> 01:30:36,663 and blasphemers all around him. 1955 01:30:36,664 --> 01:30:38,165 WOMAN: And people dressed in black. 1956 01:30:38,166 --> 01:30:39,166 WEN DY: And everyone was dressed in black 1957 01:30:39,167 --> 01:30:40,801 and he looked tortured. 1958 01:30:40,802 --> 01:30:43,806 [music] 1959 01:30:55,116 --> 01:30:58,485 FRAN: This is something that I argued with David about 1960 01:30:58,486 --> 01:31:00,821 numerous times. And David was sick. 1961 01:31:00,822 --> 01:31:04,491 I said to him, โ€œYou know, you don't have this time to waste. 1962 01:31:04,492 --> 01:31:06,460 You're not gonna change the?! minds. 1963 01:31:06,461 --> 01:31:08,161 They don't have minds. 1964 01:31:08,162 --> 01:31:10,597 The so-called fleas ox' these people like Wildmon, 1965 01:31:10,598 --> 01:31:12,098 they're not ideas. 1966 01:31:12,099 --> 01:31:14,701 They are aspects ox' bigotry. 1967 01:31:14,702 --> 01:31:16,203 There are always people like this. 1968 01:31:16,204 --> 01:31:18,138 Sometimes they're more powerful than others.โ€œ 1969 01:31:18,139 --> 01:31:21,241 That was a moment of power for those kind of - 1970 01:31:21,242 --> 01:31:23,944 and those kind ox' people. We're in one now, again. 1971 01:31:23,945 --> 01:31:25,979 But in between, they lost power. 1972 01:31:25,980 --> 01:31:29,783 And in the end, they never have the power ox' an artist. 1973 01:31:29,784 --> 01:31:31,952 David Wojnarowicz is more valuable 1974 01:31:31,953 --> 01:31:34,054 than every one of these preachers that ever lived 1975 01:31:34,055 --> 01:31:38,725 as a person and as what he put into the world. 1976 01:31:38,726 --> 01:31:41,495 WEN DY: David was being casted as that angry young man 1977 01:31:41,496 --> 01:31:43,797 who was just screaming all the time. 1978 01:31:43,798 --> 01:31:47,267 And people had told him that he was not a good painter. 1979 01:31:47,268 --> 01:31:50,477 [music] 1980 01:31:52,807 --> 01:31:54,641 WENDY: So, he was challenging himself 1981 01:31:54,642 --> 01:31:58,211 to make beautiful paintings of flowers. 1982 01:31:58,212 --> 01:32:01,047 But within that, of course, he put his writing. 1983 01:32:01,048 --> 01:32:06,048 And he did it in a way that melded with the pictures. 1984 01:32:06,053 --> 01:32:08,088 Bu! as he read the works, 1985 01:32:08,089 --> 01:32:09,723 he realized he was telling stories 1986 01:32:09,724 --> 01:32:12,926 ox' death and politics. 1987 01:32:12,927 --> 01:32:16,272 I mean, it's just really sad, beautiful show. 1988 01:32:18,299 --> 01:32:21,001 DAVID: I wonder what this little bug does in the world, 1989 01:32:21,002 --> 01:32:22,948 what his job is. 1990 01:32:25,106 --> 01:32:28,208 And if this little bug dies, 1991 01:32:28,209 --> 01:32:30,110 if the world feels it, 1992 01:32:30,111 --> 01:32:31,878 I mean, does the Earth feel it'? 1993 01:32:31,879 --> 01:32:35,315 Does the world get a little lighter in the rotation? 1994 01:32:35,316 --> 01:32:37,159 MAN: There's another one here. 1995 01:32:38,786 --> 01:32:41,855 DAVID: S0, you think they're married? 1996 01:32:41,856 --> 01:32:44,962 Or are they homosexuals on vacation'? 1997 01:32:46,060 --> 01:32:47,694 [music] 1998 01:32:47,695 --> 01:32:50,764 MARION: David was HI V-positive in '88. 1999 01:32:50,765 --> 01:32:53,800 I went to New York a lot, a lot of time 2000 01:32:53,801 --> 01:32:56,269 to work with him until 1991. 2001 01:32:56,270 --> 01:33:00,206 I mean, for me, he wasn't sick. 2002 01:33:00,207 --> 01:33:04,144 You couldn't see on his face, on his body he was sick. 2003 01:33:04,145 --> 01:33:06,313 Until the last trip with him, 2004 01:33:06,314 --> 01:33:11,217 there's one moment where I felt this virus took his mind. 2005 01:33:11,218 --> 01:33:13,220 [engine revving] 2006 01:33:15,256 --> 01:33:19,726 MARION: May 1991, we did this trip in the Southwest. 2007 01:33:19,727 --> 01:33:23,597 [engine revving] 2008 01:33:23,598 --> 01:33:25,899 MARION: We were in this valley driving 2009 01:33:25,900 --> 01:33:28,068 and I said to David, โ€œLet's stop here. 2010 01:33:28,069 --> 01:33:31,338 I would like to take photos.โ€œ 2011 01:33:31,339 --> 01:33:34,074 David said, "Look, I'm not really feeling good. 2012 01:33:34,075 --> 01:33:35,909 I stay in the car. Go on. 2013 01:33:35,910 --> 01:33:37,744 I just want to stay here.โ€œ 2014 01:33:37,745 --> 01:33:38,815 [car door slams] 2015 01:33:41,749 --> 01:33:44,628 MARION: I don't know. Maybe I left half hour. 2016 01:33:47,321 --> 01:33:49,255 Then I came back to the car 2017 01:33:49,256 --> 01:33:53,927 and David was laying down with the seat down. 2018 01:33:53,928 --> 01:33:55,929 He was, like... 2019 01:33:55,930 --> 01:33:59,332 white, completely white. 2020 01:33:59,333 --> 01:34:02,002 1 said, "David." And he didn't answer to me. 2021 01:34:02,003 --> 01:34:03,269 He wasn't sleeping. 2022 01:34:03,270 --> 01:34:05,138 His eyes were open. 2023 01:34:05,139 --> 01:34:08,375 And then he looked at me 2024 01:34:08,376 --> 01:34:11,144 and he wasn't there. 2025 01:34:11,145 --> 01:34:14,347 He was somewhere. I don't know where. 2026 01:34:14,348 --> 01:34:16,349 t started getting scared. 2027 01:34:16,350 --> 01:34:21,221 I touched his face saying, "David, David, David, David." 2028 01:34:21,222 --> 01:34:24,290 And then he came back slowly to consciousness 2029 01:34:24,291 --> 01:34:27,360 and then he started laughing like nothing happened, 2030 01:34:27,361 --> 01:34:32,198 like, he wasn't aware, like, he has been here. 2031 01:34:32,199 --> 01:34:35,702 That's the moment I felt that, uh, 2032 01:34:35,703 --> 01:34:38,912 something was shifting in his mind. 2033 01:34:43,377 --> 01:34:46,079 DAVID: Actually I blanked and I, 2034 01:34:46,080 --> 01:34:48,915 you know, my memory seems to come and go. 2035 01:34:48,916 --> 01:34:51,418 H forget so many things, uh, these days 2036 01:34:51,419 --> 01:34:53,420 where it just seems huge blocks ox' time 2037 01:34:53,421 --> 01:34:55,188 are suddenly gone and then-- 2038 01:34:55,189 --> 01:34:57,396 - MARION: David. - DAVID: --they come back. 2039 01:35:00,194 --> 01:35:03,763 MARION: The same trip David took his camera and he said, 2040 01:35:03,764 --> 01:35:06,166 โ€œI would like you to take a photo ox' me, 2041 01:35:06,167 --> 01:35:10,203 like, if I was buried.โ€œ 2042 01:35:10,204 --> 01:35:14,340 So, we silently start digging 2043 01:35:14,341 --> 01:35:17,788 and I cover him with sand and earth. 2044 01:35:22,450 --> 01:35:26,352 I took different photos. I took photos from behind. 2045 01:35:26,353 --> 01:35:28,888 R was very strong, very strong. 2046 01:35:28,889 --> 01:35:31,893 [music] 2047 01:35:41,368 --> 01:35:44,871 MARION: And that was the fast trip we did together. 2048 01:35:44,872 --> 01:35:46,406 We never met again. 2049 01:35:46,407 --> 01:35:49,743 We spoke over the phone, but we never met again. 2050 01:35:49,744 --> 01:35:52,748 [music] 2051 01:35:59,253 --> 01:36:02,989 TOM". I guess it was about September ox' '91. 2052 01:36:02,990 --> 01:36:05,125 He catted me in the middle ox' the night, 2053 01:36:05,126 --> 01:36:07,227 probably around 2:00 in the morning. 2054 01:36:07,228 --> 01:36:10,230 He said that he had a fever and he was shaking. 2055 01:36:10,231 --> 01:36:12,132 And so, I came over. 2056 01:36:12,133 --> 01:36:13,500 I put him under a quilt 2057 01:36:13,501 --> 01:36:15,535 and he was just really shivering, 2058 01:36:15,536 --> 01:36:17,137 like, he couldn't stop. 2059 01:36:17,138 --> 01:36:18,471 And that was the beginning ox' it. 2060 01:36:18,472 --> 01:36:21,007 That was the start of it. 2061 01:36:21,008 --> 01:36:23,309 From then on, things started to slowly 2062 01:36:23,310 --> 01:36:25,311 but surely go downhill. 2063 01:36:25,312 --> 01:36:28,081 He was hospitalized for eight to ten days. 2064 01:36:28,082 --> 01:36:31,317 They did tests, but then he went home. 2065 01:36:31,318 --> 01:36:32,919 And literaliy, from then on, 2066 01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:35,421 he was never really much out of bed. 2067 01:36:35,422 --> 01:36:37,090 WOMAN: Hf, David - 2068 01:36:37,091 --> 01:36:40,326 I have a friend who's on the board of directors 2069 01:36:40,327 --> 01:36:42,195 for The Museum of Modem Art. 2070 01:36:42,196 --> 01:36:44,831 He's interested in getting Peter into the museum. 2071 01:36:44,832 --> 01:36:46,366 Call them so they can talk to you, okay? 2072 01:36:46,367 --> 01:36:48,501 Bye. 2073 01:36:48,502 --> 01:36:51,506 [music] 2074 01:37:03,217 --> 01:37:05,952 MAN: When U2 did a concert out at the Meadowlands 2075 01:37:05,953 --> 01:37:08,822 in New Jersey, they sent a limousine for us. 2076 01:37:08,823 --> 01:37:11,524 And before the concert, we met with them. 2077 01:37:11,525 --> 01:37:13,493 Bono wanted to know it we wanted to pray with them. 2078 01:37:13,494 --> 01:37:15,161 We said, โ€œNo. t think we'll pass on that. 2079 01:37:15,162 --> 01:37:16,470 Thank you .โ€œ 2080 01:37:19,433 --> 01:37:21,034 Bu! it was just so special. 2081 01:37:21,035 --> 01:37:22,335 I mean, he was thrilled. 2082 01:37:22,336 --> 01:37:24,971 He was really really thrilled. 2083 01:37:24,972 --> 01:37:26,472 NIKKI: Hi, David. It's Nikki. 2084 01:37:26,473 --> 01:37:28,608 - Says that you went back in the hospital. 2085 01:37:28,609 --> 01:37:30,310 So, I hope you're okay. 2086 01:37:30,311 --> 01:37:32,145 DR. BOB". He was in and out of Cabrini 2087 01:37:32,146 --> 01:37:33,479 a number of times. 2088 01:37:33,480 --> 01:37:35,148 And after one ox' them, he said, 2089 01:37:35,149 --> 01:37:38,184 "I 'm never going back again." 2090 01:37:38,185 --> 01:37:40,520 Homecare was established in that loft 2091 01:37:40,521 --> 01:37:43,156 of the movie theater for him. 2092 01:37:43,157 --> 01:37:45,158 That became a hospital room. 2093 01:37:45,159 --> 01:37:47,594 And most patients didn't have that at that time. 2094 01:37:47,595 --> 01:37:49,596 David was one ox' the fist people 2095 01:37:49,597 --> 01:37:51,598 to have that level of homecare. 2096 01:37:51,599 --> 01:37:54,567 And probably that was the force ox' his personality 2097 01:37:54,568 --> 01:37:57,437 and Tom's organizational skills. 2098 01:37:57,438 --> 01:37:59,873 If not for Tom, that wouldn't have happened. 2099 01:37:59,874 --> 01:38:01,107 [beeping sound] 2100 01:38:01,108 --> 01:38:04,277 PAT WOJNAROW K31: David? David? 2101 01:38:04,278 --> 01:38:05,879 Hello? 2102 01:38:05,880 --> 01:38:07,413 R's Pat. 2103 01:38:07,414 --> 01:38:10,350 I just want to let you know, I talked to Tom 2104 01:38:10,351 --> 01:38:12,518 and I told him when I 'm coming in. 2105 01:38:12,519 --> 01:38:16,256 I'm worried about you. I hope... 2106 01:38:16,257 --> 01:38:18,424 t just hope that you have someone around you 2107 01:38:18,425 --> 01:38:22,362 and, uh, well, H! talk to you tomorrow, okay? 2108 01:38:22,363 --> 01:38:25,298 Take care. Bye-bye. 2109 01:38:25,299 --> 01:38:27,567 JUDY GLANTZMAN: His decline was speeding up. 2110 01:38:27,568 --> 01:38:29,302 Dementia was setting in. 2111 01:38:29,303 --> 01:38:31,037 R was in and out. 2112 01:38:31,038 --> 01:38:32,538 R was getting more and more difficult 2113 01:38:32,539 --> 01:38:34,485 and he was more and more tired. 2114 01:38:37,311 --> 01:38:39,245 Things were happening for David. 2115 01:38:39,246 --> 01:38:41,547 And you could tell David, MOMA had just bought Fire 2116 01:38:41,548 --> 01:38:42,682 and he was just kind ox' like, 2117 01:38:42,683 --> 01:38:45,451 "That's wonderful. " 2118 01:38:45,452 --> 01:38:47,620 And you could tell him five minutes later 2119 01:38:47,621 --> 01:38:49,956 and he would not remember. R was like Groundhog Day, 2120 01:38:49,957 --> 01:38:51,591 you could just absolutely tell him the same thing over. 2121 01:38:51,592 --> 01:38:53,960 And he had absolute happiness. 2122 01:38:53,961 --> 01:38:55,695 [David humming] 2123 01:38:55,696 --> 01:38:58,398 JUDY". R was a very beautiful wide-eyed David. 2124 01:38:58,399 --> 01:38:59,999 R wasn't like it wasn't him. 2125 01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:01,301 But he was joyous. 2126 01:39:01,302 --> 01:39:03,503 [David humming] 2127 01:39:03,504 --> 01:39:05,538 TOM". Dr. Bob said, โ€œAreal person comes out 2128 01:39:05,539 --> 01:39:07,340 when they get into dementia. 2129 01:39:07,341 --> 01:39:09,242 h' they're nasty at core, they'll be nasty.โ€œ 2130 01:39:09,243 --> 01:39:13,179 But David was as sweet as he could be. 2131 01:39:13,180 --> 01:39:15,281 R was heartbreaking for me. 2132 01:39:15,282 --> 01:39:17,250 He didn't think anybody would stick around 2133 01:39:17,251 --> 01:39:18,952 that he got sick or he was dying. 2134 01:39:18,953 --> 01:39:21,020 He was very much afraid of that. 2135 01:39:21,021 --> 01:39:24,157 And I think as a result ox' how badly he was treated as a kid, 2136 01:39:24,158 --> 01:39:26,359 you know, there was a tremendous sadness and fear 2137 01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:28,094 for me worrying about him 2138 01:39:28,095 --> 01:39:31,264 and knowing he was just getting worse and worse. 2139 01:39:31,265 --> 01:39:33,433 Bu! at the same time, I felt grateful 2140 01:39:33,434 --> 01:39:38,371 that! could be therefor him. 2141 01:39:38,372 --> 01:39:40,473 DAVID: Looking out the windows, I can place myself 2142 01:39:40,474 --> 01:39:42,642 somewhere out in that sky, 2143 01:39:42,643 --> 01:39:44,344 lie down in that texture 2144 01:39:44,345 --> 01:39:48,448 and dream ox' years and years ox' sleep. 2145 01:39:48,449 --> 01:39:51,150 And L-and I talk. 2146 01:39:51,151 --> 01:39:52,986 And I talk inside my head m' change 2147 01:39:52,987 --> 01:39:55,399 and of peace for this body beside me. 2148 01:39:59,626 --> 01:40:02,129 Smell the flowers while you can. 2149 01:40:06,533 --> 01:40:10,336 TOM: July 22nd, he died at the apartment. 2150 01:40:10,337 --> 01:40:13,306 And there were like 12 of us mere, 2151 01:40:13,307 --> 01:40:16,175 all oi' his friends, his sister. 2152 01:40:16,176 --> 01:40:19,412 WOMAN: The nurse said to Tom, "I think he's gone." 2153 01:40:19,413 --> 01:40:22,181 And, um... 2154 01:40:22,182 --> 01:40:24,650 that was it. 2155 01:40:24,651 --> 01:40:28,221 [music] 2156 01:40:28,222 --> 01:40:31,324 DR. BOB". R's no one thing ma! look David's life, 2157 01:40:31,325 --> 01:40:32,792 it was the burden or' carrying 2158 01:40:32,793 --> 01:40:35,762 alt those illnesses in that one body 2159 01:40:35,763 --> 01:40:38,698 that was just too much tor one body to bear. 2160 01:40:38,699 --> 01:40:41,703 [music] 2161 01:40:45,672 --> 01:40:47,440 TOM". There were a lot ox' tears during that time. 2162 01:40:47,441 --> 01:40:49,409 There were a lot of tears then. 2163 01:40:49,410 --> 01:40:52,078 But I've came a great deal of distance now, of course. 2164 01:40:52,079 --> 01:40:54,514 And you know, in some ways, it's even hard to remember him 2165 01:40:54,515 --> 01:40:56,516 which I don't like. 2166 01:40:56,517 --> 01:40:59,285 R's what time does to you. 2167 01:40:59,286 --> 01:41:00,720 But he's always here. 2168 01:41:00,721 --> 01:41:02,355 You know, he's always here no matter what. 2169 01:41:02,356 --> 01:41:04,461 I know he's here. 2170 01:41:07,361 --> 01:41:11,264 [music] 2171 01:41:11,265 --> 01:41:14,269 [indistinct chatter] 2172 01:41:17,404 --> 01:41:20,408 [music] 2173 01:41:42,296 --> 01:41:45,565 Oh, my God. Here we are. 2174 01:41:45,566 --> 01:41:49,235 I said I'm not going to cry and I'm already tearing up. 2175 01:41:49,236 --> 01:41:51,682 It has been so long coming - 2176 01:41:55,576 --> 01:41:57,078 Here it is. 2177 01:41:59,746 --> 01:42:01,447 R's a time overwhelming, isn't it? 2178 01:42:01,448 --> 01:42:02,756 Wow. 2179 01:42:04,485 --> 01:42:06,686 Look at all of this. 2180 01:42:06,687 --> 01:42:08,488 TOM: All the Peter Hujar dreaming - 2181 01:42:08,489 --> 01:42:10,323 - ANITA RAUFFENBART: Yeah. - TOM: Peter was quite 2182 01:42:10,324 --> 01:42:12,859 an extraordinary character and they were so connected. 2183 01:42:12,860 --> 01:42:14,127 Yeah. 2184 01:42:14,128 --> 01:42:15,428 TOM: Anita, there's your monkey. 2185 01:42:15,429 --> 01:42:16,596 WENDY: There's is your monkey, sweetie. 2186 01:42:16,597 --> 01:42:18,664 ANITA: Oh. Yes, it is. [laughs] 2187 01:42:18,665 --> 01:42:20,533 TOM: David painted it for Peter. 2188 01:42:20,534 --> 01:42:22,468 And it was over his bed while he was sick. 2189 01:42:22,469 --> 01:42:23,803 - WENDY: Yes. - TOM:And when he died, 2190 01:42:23,804 --> 01:42:25,505 they--they gave it to Anita. 2191 01:42:25,506 --> 01:42:27,473 - Kept it for 20 years. - TOM: Yeah. 2192 01:42:27,474 --> 01:42:30,776 ANITA: And I'm so sorry. I needed to sell it. [laughs] 2193 01:42:30,777 --> 01:42:33,312 If I could but it back from that woman, I would. 2194 01:42:33,313 --> 01:42:36,149 Peter would always say that the monkey was carrying 2195 01:42:36,150 --> 01:42:38,351 the weight of the world on his shoulders 2196 01:42:38,352 --> 01:42:41,387 the way David did it. 2197 01:42:41,388 --> 01:42:43,189 TOM: This has always been a favorite. 2198 01:42:43,190 --> 01:42:44,423 When I first saw it, 2199 01:42:44,424 --> 01:42:46,626 it really kind of moved me a lot. 2200 01:42:46,627 --> 01:42:49,195 At that point, David was not feeling very well 2201 01:42:49,196 --> 01:42:52,632 and ljust kept thinking of extinction and Wojnarowicz. 2202 01:42:52,633 --> 01:42:54,634 He's so clever. He really was. 2203 01:42:54,635 --> 01:42:57,809 He had such a great childish imagination. 2204 01:43:00,807 --> 01:43:03,910 DAVID: Imagination is the key to breaking through 2205 01:43:03,911 --> 01:43:05,912 the borders of countries. 2206 01:43:05,913 --> 01:43:10,583 We can break through existing structures ox' government. 2207 01:43:10,584 --> 01:43:14,353 The work that anybody does as an artist, 2208 01:43:14,354 --> 01:43:16,856 you know, it doesn't reflect resistance 2209 01:43:16,857 --> 01:43:18,591 then they're - 2210 01:43:18,592 --> 01:43:22,228 a system of control become more perfect. 2211 01:43:22,229 --> 01:43:25,231 MAN". We rise to greet the state 2212 01:43:25,232 --> 01:43:27,667 to confront the state. 2213 01:43:27,668 --> 01:43:27,700 SINGER: I- โ™ช 2214 01:43:27,701 --> 01:43:32,309 SINGER: I- โ™ช 2215 01:43:34,741 --> 01:43:38,978 And you thought I was just no strength J" 2216 01:43:38,979 --> 01:43:41,781 You thought I was just - J" 2217 01:43:41,782 --> 01:43:45,918 J" You thought I was just worth a picture J" 2218 01:43:45,919 --> 01:43:48,621 To- of thoughts and times- J" 2219 01:43:48,622 --> 01:43:50,723 [music] 2220 01:43:50,724 --> 01:43:51,828 [glass breaks] 2221 01:43:53,961 --> 01:43:56,562 [music] 2222 01:43:56,563 --> 01:43:58,564 SINGER: J" Lies they tell us, lies they live J" 2223 01:43:58,565 --> 01:44:00,700 J" What is it that lies can give'? J" 2224 01:44:00,701 --> 01:44:02,969 J" Peace or hatred, love or fear? J" 2225 01:44:02,970 --> 01:44:04,704 Who will lie the most this year'? J" 2226 01:44:04,705 --> 01:44:06,772 J" Lies they tell us, lies they live J" 2227 01:44:06,773 --> 01:44:08,708 J" What is it that lies can give'? J" 2228 01:44:08,709 --> 01:44:10,943 J" Peace or hatred, love or fear? J" 2229 01:44:10,944 --> 01:44:14,880 J" Who will lie the most this year'? J" 2230 01:44:14,881 --> 01:44:17,917 PETER: This is Hujar at noon on Sunday 2231 01:44:17,918 --> 01:44:19,552 you wanna hear some Italian? 2232 01:44:19,553 --> 01:44:20,553 Listen. 2233 01:44:20,554 --> 01:44:24,257 [woman speaks Italian] 2234 01:44:24,258 --> 01:44:25,658 PETER: Did you like ma? 2235 01:44:25,659 --> 01:44:27,393 Oh, she's been imitating an American. 2236 01:44:27,394 --> 01:44:29,897 How about that? Anyway, goodbye. 2237 01:44:33,734 --> 01:44:35,601 MAN". See you later, gator. 2238 01:44:35,602 --> 01:44:38,606 [birds chirping] 2239 01:44:40,841 --> 01:44:43,822 - [laughter] - SINGER: J" - your heart J" 188002

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