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1
00:00:00,066 --> 00:00:03,673
[clock ticking]
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00:00:11,578 --> 00:00:15,547
[music]
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DAVID WOJNAROWICZ:
Testing one, two, three.
4
00:00:17,384 --> 00:00:19,351
Testing one, Mo.
5
00:00:19,352 --> 00:00:21,487
Testing, testing,
testing, testing,
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00:00:21,488 --> 00:00:25,300
testing, test, test, test.
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00:00:38,271 --> 00:00:41,273
DAVID: We rise
to greet the State,
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00:00:41,274 --> 00:00:43,754
to confront the State.
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00:00:48,114 --> 00:00:52,384
When I was diagnosed
with this virus,
10
00:00:52,385 --> 00:00:54,219
it didn't take me long
to realize
11
00:00:54,220 --> 00:00:56,359
I'd contracted
a diseased society as web'.
12
00:01:02,195 --> 00:01:03,695
[static sound]
13
00:01:03,696 --> 00:01:07,473
[music]
14
00:01:12,672 --> 00:01:14,373
DAVID: It could be construed
as critical,
15
00:01:14,374 --> 00:01:16,308
but ix' you're doing
a show of AIDS,
16
00:01:16,309 --> 00:01:18,243
there's absolutely no way
that you can separate
17
00:01:18,244 --> 00:01:19,812
politics from AIDS.
18
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TV REPORTER: For six years,
what's happening
19
00:01:21,181 --> 00:01:22,781
is we update our top stories.
20
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East Germany today
took down the Berlin Wall.
21
00:01:25,151 --> 00:01:26,852
Bottom line
is I may be dying of AiDS
22
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in America in 1989.
23
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Isn't that political?
24
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I don't have health insurance
and that I don't have
25
00:01:32,392 --> 00:01:34,259
economic access
to adequate healthcare.
26
00:01:34,260 --> 00:01:36,328
Isn't that political?
27
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And to try to become
the subject of AiDS
28
00:01:39,099 --> 00:01:43,602
and not have a political tinge
to it is ridiculous.
29
00:01:43,603 --> 00:01:45,437
PHIL ZWICKLER: Who was that?
30
00:01:45,438 --> 00:01:47,439
John McKenzie
is putting this up together
31
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tor Peter something
ox' World News tonight.
32
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- Peter Jennings?
- Yeah.
33
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- You mean like national news?
- Yeah.
34
00:01:55,181 --> 00:01:58,283
Oh, shit. 1 didn't--
I should've had that recorded.
35
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Are you recording
all ox' this today?
36
00:01:59,652 --> 00:02:01,120
- Yeah.
- You're gonna make art
37
00:02:01,121 --> 00:02:02,488
- out of it, huh?
- Yup.
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TV REPORTER:
Tonight in Manhattan,
39
00:02:04,491 --> 00:02:06,258
art exhibit about AIDS is
losing a lot ox' federal money
40
00:02:06,259 --> 00:02:08,427
because of what will be shown
in the exhibit.
41
00:02:08,428 --> 00:02:10,362
TV REPORTER: The chairman
of the NEA states,
42
00:02:10,363 --> 00:02:12,397
โWe find that a large portion
of the content
43
00:02:12,398 --> 00:02:15,267
is political rather than
artistic in nature."
44
00:02:15,268 --> 00:02:17,236
Some of the content
includes criticism
45
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or' Cardinal O'Connor,
Senator William Dannemeyer
46
00:02:19,706 --> 00:02:21,874
of California,
and Senator Jesse Helms
47
00:02:21,875 --> 00:02:24,743
for their support
of the new restrictive law.
48
00:02:24,744 --> 00:02:28,147
Thank you. This weather
is certainly no work ox' art.
49
00:02:28,148 --> 00:02:29,615
PHIL: S0 are you gonna do
Nightline tonight?
50
00:02:29,616 --> 00:02:33,452
Uh, I somehow just can't
see it. Like 1--
51
00:02:33,453 --> 00:02:35,320
D0 you think you'd throw in
a shirt if you did?
52
00:02:35,321 --> 00:02:36,355
Well, that's what
I was thinking of already
53
00:02:36,356 --> 00:02:38,157
my wardrobe.
54
00:02:38,158 --> 00:02:41,860
I mean, I--If I did,
I might wear a ski mask
55
00:02:41,861 --> 00:02:44,296
and Yd, you know,
56
00:02:44,297 --> 00:02:46,899
carry a bucket ox' gasoline.
57
00:02:46,900 --> 00:02:49,710
From Philadelphia,
I'm Terry Gross with Fresh Air.
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00:02:51,738 --> 00:02:53,639
TERRY". The art
ox' David Wojnarowicz
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00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:55,941
has recently been
at the center or' controversy
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00:02:55,942 --> 00:03:00,345
because the subject matter
deals with sexuality and AIDS.
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00:03:00,346 --> 00:03:02,281
Let's talk about
how you started making art.
62
00:03:02,282 --> 00:03:04,516
Now, you came from a really
rough family background.
63
00:03:04,517 --> 00:03:06,418
Your father abused your mother.
64
00:03:06,419 --> 00:03:08,387
You ended up in an orphanage
for a while.
65
00:03:08,388 --> 00:03:10,889
Then your father kidnapped you
from the orphanage.
66
00:03:10,890 --> 00:03:13,258
And you've written
that you later threw yourself
67
00:03:13,259 --> 00:03:15,594
into sex and you became
a hustler for a while.
68
00:03:15,595 --> 00:03:17,429
How did you start
making art?
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00:03:17,430 --> 00:03:19,842
[music]
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00:03:22,735 --> 00:03:24,970
DAVID: Whatever work I've done,
it's always been informed
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00:03:24,971 --> 00:03:28,540
by what I experienced
as an American in this country,
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00:03:28,541 --> 00:03:30,742
as a homosexual in this
country
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00:03:30,743 --> 00:03:33,912
as a person who's legislated
into silence in this country.
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00:03:33,913 --> 00:03:37,449
One, two, three, four,
civil rights or civil war?
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00:03:37,450 --> 00:03:39,585
I'm not gonna be polite
and fuck these people
76
00:03:39,586 --> 00:03:41,553
that want me
to be courageous.
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There's no expression
in that other than silence.
78
00:03:44,324 --> 00:03:46,525
As each T-cell
disappears from my body,
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00:03:46,526 --> 00:03:50,696
it's replaced by 10 pounds
of pressure, 10 pounds of rage.
80
00:03:50,697 --> 00:03:52,598
I tried very hard to be normal
81
00:03:52,599 --> 00:03:54,566
and tried very hard
to be accepted.
82
00:03:54,567 --> 00:03:56,802
On some level,
it's a terrific waste of time.
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00:03:56,803 --> 00:03:58,804
[static sound]
84
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- MAN: Wojnarowicz?
- MAN: Wojnarowicz.
85
00:04:00,540 --> 00:04:01,707
- MAN: Wojnarowicz.
- MAN: Wojnarowicz.
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00:04:01,708 --> 00:04:05,177
DAVID: Fuck you faggot fucker.
87
00:04:05,178 --> 00:04:05,477
DAVID: Fuck you faggot fucker.
88
00:04:05,478 --> 00:04:07,890
[music]
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00:04:11,651 --> 00:04:13,418
STEVEN WOJNAROWKZZ:
David was Mo years younger
90
00:04:13,419 --> 00:04:16,421
than me and Pat
was sort ox' the big gift.
91
00:04:16,422 --> 00:04:19,725
r don't remember him
ever aspiring to do art,
92
00:04:19,726 --> 00:04:21,526
or to be a doctor,
or into lawyer,
93
00:04:21,527 --> 00:04:23,028
or anything else.
94
00:04:23,029 --> 00:04:24,763
I think we were probably
too consumed.
95
00:04:24,764 --> 00:04:26,798
We're frying to survive
in any given moment
96
00:04:26,799 --> 00:04:30,602
than to be worried about
what was going down the road.
97
00:04:30,603 --> 00:04:32,904
Dave and I
used to go out in the woods.
98
00:04:32,905 --> 00:04:35,007
We'd get away from my father.
99
00:04:35,008 --> 00:04:37,976
He was horrific
when he was drunk.
100
00:04:37,977 --> 00:04:39,411
DAVID: I grew up in a tiny
version of hell
101
00:04:39,412 --> 00:04:41,446
called the suburbs.
102
00:04:41,447 --> 00:04:43,749
I had a father who brutalized
both his first and second wives
103
00:04:43,750 --> 00:04:45,617
with physical violence.
104
00:04:45,618 --> 00:04:47,552
Any signs ox' life
in the family he supported
105
00:04:47,553 --> 00:04:49,888
with his paycheck
from his job as a sailor
106
00:04:49,889 --> 00:04:51,823
was met with extreme violence.
107
00:04:51,824 --> 00:04:53,959
In the universe of the -
108
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:55,761
I could think of what it felt
like as a five or six-year-old
109
00:04:55,762 --> 00:04:57,562
being dragged
down a basement stair,
110
00:04:57,563 --> 00:04:59,998
to have my head and body
hit with a dog chain
111
00:04:59,999 --> 00:05:02,401
or somehow a chunk of 2x4.
112
00:05:02,402 --> 00:05:06,405
In my home, one could not laugh,
one could not express boredom,
113
00:05:06,406 --> 00:05:10,008
one could not cry, one could
not play, one could not explore,
114
00:05:10,009 --> 00:05:11,877
one could not engage
in any activity
115
00:05:11,878 --> 00:05:14,846
that showed development
or growth that was independent.
116
00:05:14,847 --> 00:05:17,453
[music]
117
00:05:26,592 --> 00:05:28,627
CYNTHIA CARR: I guess
life on the streets
118
00:05:28,628 --> 00:05:32,764
got really rough and David
ended up in a halfway house.
119
00:05:32,765 --> 00:05:36,501
He had not graduated
from high school at that point.
120
00:05:36,502 --> 00:05:38,103
When he finally went back
to school
121
00:05:38,104 --> 00:05:40,872
was when he discovered
Rimbaud and Genet,
122
00:05:40,873 --> 00:05:44,076
they both
are outlaws and rebels.
123
00:05:44,077 --> 00:05:48,413
And he always identified
with outsiders his whole life.
124
00:05:48,414 --> 00:05:52,651
And these
were the outsider writers.
125
00:05:52,652 --> 00:05:56,429
[cassette recorder clicking]
126
00:05:57,924 --> 00:06:00,892
DAVID: Testing tape journal one,
two, three.
127
00:06:00,893 --> 00:06:03,499
[music]
128
00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,412
[train chugging]
129
00:06:15,074 --> 00:06:16,675
DAVID: So, it looks like
we ended up
130
00:06:16,676 --> 00:06:19,678
in Jamestown, North Dakota.
131
00:06:19,679 --> 00:06:22,681
That's the halfway mark
between east and west.
132
00:06:22,682 --> 00:06:25,060
[music]
133
00:06:27,987 --> 00:06:30,756
DAVID: Feels like something
out of an old west picture,
134
00:06:30,757 --> 00:06:33,959
dusty roads,
old board buildings,
135
00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,628
time family houses
all around it,
136
00:06:36,629 --> 00:06:41,466
great stretches ox' sky,
tong tines ox' trains.
137
00:06:41,467 --> 00:06:44,503
The tracks, when you look
at them, they shimmer.
138
00:06:44,504 --> 00:06:47,706
R looks like thousands ox'
little animals running across.
139
00:06:47,707 --> 00:06:50,475
Then there's the constant
flapping ox' bird wings
140
00:06:50,476 --> 00:06:54,083
like [makes sound]
141
00:06:57,016 --> 00:06:59,851
Occasionally you hear a train
whistling miles away
142
00:06:59,852 --> 00:07:03,755
but the trains
never seem to get here.
143
00:07:03,756 --> 00:07:07,568
[static sound]
144
00:07:10,163 --> 00:07:13,031
- [cassette tape clicking]
- [dog barking]
145
00:07:13,032 --> 00:07:16,501
DAVID: That was - French for,
"All right, pinheads,
146
00:07:16,502 --> 00:07:18,503
I 'm just sitting here
in my sister's apartment
147
00:07:18,504 --> 00:07:20,505
using her tape recorder,
trying to figure out
148
00:07:20,506 --> 00:07:22,441
what the hell to say "
149
00:07:22,442 --> 00:07:26,912
[music]
150
00:07:26,913 --> 00:07:29,448
DAVID: As far as publishing,
forget it.
151
00:07:29,449 --> 00:07:31,616
The last woman
that I sent the manuscript to,
152
00:07:31,617 --> 00:07:34,453
this woman in Black Sun,
Le Soleil Noir,
153
00:07:34,454 --> 00:07:36,521
called me up like after a month
and told me
154
00:07:36,522 --> 00:07:38,824
she wanted to return
my manuscript.
155
00:07:38,825 --> 00:07:40,692
And she said that the people
in the monologues
156
00:07:40,693 --> 00:07:42,794
are wasted lives
and was a wasted time
157
00:07:42,795 --> 00:07:44,496
to write about them.
158
00:07:44,497 --> 00:07:46,164
I mean, everything she said
159
00:07:46,165 --> 00:07:49,701
just reinforced my belief
ox' its importance.
160
00:07:49,702 --> 00:07:52,170
It's like that. I mean,
it's like the galleries, too.
161
00:07:52,171 --> 00:07:54,639
The stuff that I work on
takes so long to do
162
00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:56,575
that the price
that Yd have to ask
163
00:07:56,576 --> 00:07:59,010
ix' I was gonna make a living
off is just too much
164
00:07:59,011 --> 00:08:00,812
especially
since her taste gravitate
165
00:08:00,813 --> 00:08:04,249
towards what will work
in prints.
166
00:08:04,250 --> 00:08:06,117
We been having,
like, just tons and tons
167
00:08:06,118 --> 00:08:10,722
ox' dreams ox' America
and American road and highways.
168
00:08:10,723 --> 00:08:13,191
I really miss
the energy in New York.
169
00:08:13,192 --> 00:08:16,194
Paris gives you a sense
ox' strange security,
170
00:08:16,195 --> 00:08:18,129
which does make me happy.
171
00:08:18,130 --> 00:08:20,098
So, I guess,
H! say goodbye here.
172
00:08:20,099 --> 00:08:25,099
[speaking French]
173
00:08:25,505 --> 00:08:26,882
Bye-bye.
174
00:08:28,674 --> 00:08:33,078
[airplane engine revving]
175
00:08:33,079 --> 00:08:35,213
[camera shutter clicking]
176
00:08:35,214 --> 00:08:37,582
[police siren wailing]
177
00:08:37,583 --> 00:08:40,051
- [water gushing]
- [indistinct chatter]
178
00:08:40,052 --> 00:08:42,053
[girl screams]
179
00:08:42,054 --> 00:08:43,755
[crowd chatter]
180
00:08:43,756 --> 00:08:45,257
[horn honking]
181
00:08:45,258 --> 00:08:46,958
[bell chiming]
182
00:08:46,959 --> 00:08:48,927
[engine revving]
183
00:08:48,928 --> 00:08:50,729
[camera shutter]
184
00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:53,164
DAVID: I 'm just doing a series
of photographs
185
00:08:53,165 --> 00:08:55,233
for the Rimbaud
in New York.
186
00:08:55,234 --> 00:08:57,135
[music]
187
00:08:57,136 --> 00:08:59,070
DAVID: I got a job
in an ad agency
188
00:08:59,071 --> 00:09:00,839
for all ox' Mo
and a ha?! weeks,
189
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,541
operating a staff machine
190
00:09:02,542 --> 00:09:04,142
that! ended up
doing all my homework.
191
00:09:04,143 --> 00:09:07,955
[music]
192
00:09:10,182 --> 00:09:13,885
DAVID: I start at this face
of Arthur Rimbaud glued up
193
00:09:13,886 --> 00:09:18,089
and made a - mask
and by riding in subways
194
00:09:18,090 --> 00:09:20,158
wandering all through
the warehouses
195
00:09:20,159 --> 00:09:22,264
hustling in Times Square.
196
00:09:24,697 --> 00:09:26,698
DAVID KlEHL:
David was taking Rimbaud
197
00:09:26,699 --> 00:09:29,734
through what was his world
in New York.
198
00:09:29,735 --> 00:09:31,670
[music]
199
00:09:31,671 --> 00:09:33,872
MAN". - come on, man. Come on.
200
00:09:33,873 --> 00:09:35,307
DAVID: I grew up as a hustler.
201
00:09:35,308 --> 00:09:37,342
I grew up hustling
in Times Square
202
00:09:37,343 --> 00:09:40,712
and all sorts of places
all around New York.
203
00:09:40,713 --> 00:09:43,023
And then ox' all
different descriptions.
204
00:09:48,688 --> 00:09:52,295
[police siren wailing]
205
00:10:01,133 --> 00:10:03,134
By the time I got
off the streets
206
00:10:03,135 --> 00:10:06,237
when I was about 17 or 18,
I had to turn to making things
207
00:10:06,238 --> 00:10:09,074
because I basically
could never find a place
208
00:10:09,075 --> 00:10:12,611
to ever express
what! had experienced.
209
00:10:12,612 --> 00:10:14,613
r remember one or'
the most emotional experiences
210
00:10:14,614 --> 00:10:18,216
was one day being picked up
by this guy who was very creepy
211
00:10:18,217 --> 00:10:20,785
and I remember lying
on this dirty bed.
212
00:10:20,786 --> 00:10:22,320
R was one ox' these
cheap hotels.
213
00:10:22,321 --> 00:10:25,156
And this guy
was sucking my dick,
214
00:10:25,157 --> 00:10:27,759
his mouth was sticky
and that he even kissed my leg
215
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,260
and there would be
like those gummy
216
00:10:29,261 --> 00:10:31,229
kind ox' stuff on my leg.
217
00:10:31,230 --> 00:10:33,798
And it was all the stuff
that I was really repulsed by
218
00:10:33,799 --> 00:10:35,934
and not enough to not have
a hard on.
219
00:10:35,935 --> 00:10:37,402
I remember feeling all this
220
00:10:37,403 --> 00:10:38,737
incredible emotion
for this guy.
221
00:10:38,738 --> 00:10:40,338
I just felt so sad for him.
222
00:10:40,339 --> 00:10:42,207
At some point, L like,
reached under his arms,
223
00:10:42,208 --> 00:10:44,876
and pulled him up to me,
and kissed him on the mouth,
224
00:10:44,877 --> 00:10:47,178
which is the thing
that I least wanted to do.
225
00:10:47,179 --> 00:10:49,414
He started weeping
and just said,
226
00:10:49,415 --> 00:10:52,017
"Nobody's ever done that."
And ended up giving me
227
00:10:52,018 --> 00:10:55,220
extra money whatever,
which I was quite happy with.
228
00:10:55,221 --> 00:10:59,033
[police siren wailing]
229
00:11:03,429 --> 00:11:05,196
[crowd chatter]
230
00:11:05,197 --> 00:11:06,297
DAVID: It's like a whole
experience
231
00:11:06,298 --> 00:11:08,333
living on the streets
232
00:11:08,334 --> 00:11:10,769
when I ran away from home
of feeling the world's setup
233
00:11:10,770 --> 00:11:15,240
in such a way that it seems
that I 'm constantly working
234
00:11:15,241 --> 00:11:18,943
against it
rather than alongside.
235
00:11:18,944 --> 00:11:22,080
[thunder rumbling]
236
00:11:22,081 --> 00:11:23,882
DAVID: Most guys that I meet,
237
00:11:23,883 --> 00:11:25,817
their lives are just
so completely different.
238
00:11:25,818 --> 00:11:27,919
You know,
there's no real communication
239
00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,789
where I can feel totally free
in expressing my ideas,
240
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:33,958
my desires,
and my experiences.
241
00:11:33,959 --> 00:11:36,127
My experience
as a hustler seems to be
242
00:11:36,128 --> 00:11:38,301
one thing that sits
on the back ox' my shoulder.
243
00:11:40,266 --> 00:11:42,267
[horn honking]
244
00:11:42,268 --> 00:11:44,235
FRAN LEBOWITZ: One thing that's
incredibly hard to convey
245
00:11:44,236 --> 00:11:47,772
to people is the level
of promiscuity of that era.
246
00:11:47,773 --> 00:11:49,240
This is something
that's realty hard
247
00:11:49,241 --> 00:11:50,775
to describe to people younger.
248
00:11:50,776 --> 00:11:52,877
We felt sex was good for you.
249
00:11:52,878 --> 00:11:55,180
That what was bad for you
is not having sex.
250
00:11:55,181 --> 00:11:57,415
And then what was bad tor you
is repression oi' sexuality,
251
00:11:57,416 --> 00:11:59,350
that was bad.
252
00:11:59,351 --> 00:12:02,153
This is before AIDS or before
we were aware of AIDS.
253
00:12:02,154 --> 00:12:04,255
[firework explosion]
254
00:12:04,256 --> 00:12:05,857
[man screams]
255
00:12:05,858 --> 00:12:07,292
[police siren wailing]
256
00:12:07,293 --> 00:12:09,360
[indistinct chatter]
257
00:12:09,361 --> 00:12:11,162
RICHARD KERN: I grew up
in North Carolina.
258
00:12:11,163 --> 00:12:13,398
And when t first moved
to the East Village--
259
00:12:13,399 --> 00:12:15,333
MAN: Smoke, smoke.
260
00:12:15,334 --> 00:12:17,202
RICHARD: --it was cliche things
you see in the movies
261
00:12:17,203 --> 00:12:21,473
ox' drug-dealing places,
dealers standing around
262
00:12:21,474 --> 00:12:24,375
selling coke and dope,
coke and dope, C&D, C&D.
263
00:12:24,376 --> 00:12:26,177
[gunshot]
264
00:12:26,178 --> 00:12:27,979
[glass breaks]
265
00:12:27,980 --> 00:12:30,215
MAN: - real slow, brother.
I said real slow.
266
00:12:30,216 --> 00:12:32,150
- I'll sell that bullshit.
- MAN: That is bullshit.
267
00:12:32,151 --> 00:12:33,818
CARLO MCCORMICK: People forget
how much the rest
268
00:12:33,819 --> 00:12:35,820
of America hated New York.
269
00:12:35,821 --> 00:12:38,056
We were a bunch of junkies
and cocksuckers
270
00:12:38,057 --> 00:12:40,358
as far as America
was concerned, and, you know,
271
00:12:40,359 --> 00:12:42,127
there's a real sense
of cultural decline.
272
00:12:42,128 --> 00:12:44,929
[music]
273
00:12:44,930 --> 00:12:46,865
CARLO". There had been
this huge shift
274
00:12:46,866 --> 00:12:49,901
between the kind of idea/isms
of the '60s
275
00:12:49,902 --> 00:12:51,770
and the first
Civil Rights Movement,
276
00:12:51,771 --> 00:12:53,371
the anti-war movement.
277
00:12:53,372 --> 00:12:56,474
All these things
are derailed by the mid-70s.
278
00:12:56,475 --> 00:12:59,752
And so we were responding
to that in different ways.
279
00:13:02,848 --> 00:13:06,951
[crickets chirping]
280
00:13:06,952 --> 00:13:09,187
DAVID: I walked up to the park,
and the streets
281
00:13:09,188 --> 00:13:14,159
were completely empty,
and traffic was nonexistent.
282
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,029
I had opened up my pants
283
00:13:18,030 --> 00:13:20,031
and I walked up
and down the pathways,
284
00:13:20,032 --> 00:13:22,333
and there's just, like,
this realty quite
285
00:13:22,334 --> 00:13:25,136
sort of loneliness there.
286
00:13:25,137 --> 00:13:26,838
I mean it felt
like it was, like,
287
00:13:26,839 --> 00:13:28,978
you're back
where it started from.
288
00:13:31,043 --> 00:13:32,811
We been filled with this
sense
289
00:13:32,812 --> 00:13:37,081
of, uh, of anxiousness,
290
00:13:37,082 --> 00:13:41,052
and the fact that I'm 26,
I'm thinking about myself
291
00:13:41,053 --> 00:13:44,355
and my values, my actions,
and thinking about the effect
292
00:13:44,356 --> 00:13:46,958
ox' people on people,
wondering if any
293
00:13:46,959 --> 00:13:50,228
ox' it's meaningful,
if it's fume,
294
00:13:50,229 --> 00:13:52,964
frying to figure out what it is
that my life is,
295
00:13:52,965 --> 00:13:54,911
and where We been going.
296
00:13:58,270 --> 00:14:00,405
MAN: This is a man
whose time has come,
297
00:14:00,406 --> 00:14:03,241
a man whose principles
have been familiar to Americans
298
00:14:03,242 --> 00:14:05,977
for 30 years,
a man whose accomplishments
299
00:14:05,978 --> 00:14:07,979
make him the natural choice
300
00:14:07,980 --> 00:14:10,381
for president
of the United States.
301
00:14:10,382 --> 00:14:14,586
RONALD REAGAN: We will make
America great again.
302
00:14:14,587 --> 00:14:15,954
Thank you very much.
303
00:14:15,955 --> 00:14:18,389
[applause]
304
00:14:18,390 --> 00:14:22,093
DAVID: Reagan, as the president
of this country now,
305
00:14:22,094 --> 00:14:25,029
going through a time in my life
that seems desperate,
306
00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:29,410
surreal, awful, and slightly
wondrous all simultaneously.
307
00:14:32,104 --> 00:14:35,506
Met a fellow a month
or so ago, Peter Hujar,
308
00:14:35,507 --> 00:14:38,643
photographer who,
in some interesting ways,
309
00:14:38,644 --> 00:14:42,413
is like a mirror
of scenes I 'm entering.
310
00:14:42,414 --> 00:14:47,414
He has the same desperate
and at times confused outlook,
311
00:14:48,254 --> 00:14:51,956
but minus the one seed
ox' hope that t have in me.
312
00:14:51,957 --> 00:14:55,564
[music]
313
00:14:58,197 --> 00:15:01,532
STEPHEN KOCH: The relationship
between Peter and David
314
00:15:01,533 --> 00:15:05,270
is one oi' the most
interesting relationships
315
00:15:05,271 --> 00:15:09,307
between artists
in a very long time.
316
00:15:09,308 --> 00:15:12,977
More interesting than van Gogh
and Gauguin,
317
00:15:12,978 --> 00:15:16,147
very, very special enemy.
318
00:15:16,148 --> 00:15:18,383
[music]
319
00:15:18,384 --> 00:15:21,052
CYNTHIA: When Peter
started his career
320
00:15:21,053 --> 00:15:23,221
as a photographer
in the '50s,
321
00:15:23,222 --> 00:15:26,090
it was not considered
a real art form.
322
00:15:26,091 --> 00:15:28,559
His photographs
were mostly portraits,
323
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,561
mostly of people he knew,
but he did know
324
00:15:30,562 --> 00:15:32,664
some rather famous people,
you know.
325
00:15:32,665 --> 00:15:36,367
He's truly an artist,
but Peter was very difficult,
326
00:15:36,368 --> 00:15:38,036
and in terms
m' having a career,
327
00:15:38,037 --> 00:15:40,371
he was not very good at it.
328
00:15:40,372 --> 00:15:43,107
FRAN".
These works were very small.
329
00:15:43,108 --> 00:15:45,009
The New York Art World
fit in one restaurant.
330
00:15:45,010 --> 00:15:46,444
One restaurant, okay?
331
00:15:46,445 --> 00:15:48,513
I heard of Peter
before I met him.
332
00:15:48,514 --> 00:15:50,248
The number ox' people
who would have heard of Peter,
333
00:15:50,249 --> 00:15:52,250
you know, 12?
334
00:15:52,251 --> 00:15:54,953
MAN: He may have been a saint
on Avenue A,
335
00:15:54,954 --> 00:15:57,488
but it was underground fame.
336
00:15:57,489 --> 00:16:00,692
He did not have
that standing in the quote,
337
00:16:00,693 --> 00:16:04,562
โreal art world.โ
He was stranded.
338
00:16:04,563 --> 00:16:07,598
Nothing was going nowhere.
339
00:16:07,599 --> 00:16:10,601
PETER HUJAR: Howdy-do,
howdy-do.
340
00:16:10,602 --> 00:16:13,304
This is Huprino again.
341
00:16:13,305 --> 00:16:16,741
I was wondering ix' David's
steamed vegetable was there.
342
00:16:16,742 --> 00:16:20,311
This is Peter fast juice.
343
00:16:20,312 --> 00:16:22,690
[cars honk]
344
00:16:25,617 --> 00:16:27,418
DAVID: Peter last night
in the bar when I told him
345
00:16:27,419 --> 00:16:29,287
about doing a portfolio
and throwing out
346
00:16:29,288 --> 00:16:30,722
all the drawings
so I thought we're -
347
00:16:30,723 --> 00:16:32,724
very upsetting
348
00:16:32,725 --> 00:16:35,293
told me not to throw out
any drawings
349
00:16:35,294 --> 00:16:38,329
no matter what my taste is
and what my ideas are,
350
00:16:38,330 --> 00:16:40,031
ix' I feel it's good enough,
351
00:16:40,032 --> 00:16:42,133
thereโ be somebody
who will pick up on it,
352
00:16:42,134 --> 00:16:44,068
t shouldn't start compromising
353
00:16:44,069 --> 00:16:46,982
and trying to adapt to
other people's taste.
354
00:16:49,708 --> 00:16:51,676
And last night, I was standing
around here 5:00,
355
00:16:51,677 --> 00:16:55,713
6:00 in the morning,
looking through the portfolio,
356
00:16:55,714 --> 00:16:59,250
looking at my photographs.
357
00:16:59,251 --> 00:17:01,319
t was realty startled,
it was like the fist time
358
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,121
that I sat down
and really looked at them
359
00:17:03,122 --> 00:17:05,556
in ages since I did them.
360
00:17:05,557 --> 00:17:09,494
And t realized
that they are good.
361
00:17:09,495 --> 00:17:11,729
And that there's absolutely
no reason for me
362
00:17:11,730 --> 00:17:16,300
to deny them or throw them
away, they're my life.
363
00:17:16,301 --> 00:17:19,437
And t don't owe it to anybody
to distort that
364
00:17:19,438 --> 00:17:21,572
just for their comfort.
365
00:17:21,573 --> 00:17:26,573
CARLO". I think that everything
David thought an artist could
366
00:17:26,578 --> 00:17:30,648
and should be was embodied
by Peter.
367
00:17:30,649 --> 00:17:34,324
And Peter was the purest
of the tot.
368
00:17:36,622 --> 00:17:39,057
[seagulls gawking]
369
00:17:39,058 --> 00:17:42,527
[music]
370
00:17:42,528 --> 00:17:46,397
STEVEN". Peter had tremendous
respect for anyone else
371
00:17:46,398 --> 00:17:50,768
who had that same drive,
called them those people.
372
00:17:50,769 --> 00:17:55,139
And those people were special.
373
00:17:55,140 --> 00:17:58,409
He was a tough judge.
374
00:17:58,410 --> 00:18:03,081
And when he discovered David,
he realized he's one of them.
375
00:18:03,082 --> 00:18:05,616
This guy is one ox' them.
376
00:18:05,617 --> 00:18:08,453
He's talented in a chaotic way.
377
00:18:08,454 --> 00:18:13,257
And Peter saw right away
both the talent and the chaos.
378
00:18:13,258 --> 00:18:15,660
[music]
379
00:18:15,661 --> 00:18:17,662
[car honks]
380
00:18:17,663 --> 00:18:20,098
FRAN: When Peter first met David
and talked about him,
381
00:18:20,099 --> 00:18:22,633
t paid zero attention to Peter
about this. Zero.
382
00:18:22,634 --> 00:18:24,535
I don't pay much attention
to people I was steeping with,
383
00:18:24,536 --> 00:18:26,304
t don't know
why t should pay attention
384
00:18:26,305 --> 00:18:28,172
to people that Peter
was steeping with.
385
00:18:28,173 --> 00:18:30,108
t was under the impression
that he was a teenager
386
00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:31,843
because he had that band
called, like,
387
00:18:31,844 --> 00:18:34,612
4 Teens Kill 3
or 3 Teens Km 4,
388
00:18:34,613 --> 00:18:36,380
which, of course,
We never heard of.
389
00:18:36,381 --> 00:18:38,116
3 TEENS KILL 4: J" Give me all your bibles J"
390
00:18:38,117 --> 00:18:39,250
J" give me all your money,
give me all your bibles J"
391
00:18:39,251 --> 00:18:40,651
J" give me all your money J"
392
00:18:40,652 --> 00:18:42,653
JESSE HULTBERG:
The story about 3 Teens
393
00:18:42,654 --> 00:18:44,522
playing for the first time,
it has to do with Danceteria
394
00:18:44,523 --> 00:18:47,391
being shut down for not having
a liquor license.
395
00:18:47,392 --> 00:18:49,227
Dave and I were busboys
at Danceteria.
396
00:18:49,228 --> 00:18:50,728
We worked together.
397
00:18:50,729 --> 00:18:53,197
R was an interesting crowd
ox' people.
398
00:18:53,198 --> 00:18:55,233
Keith Haring
was a busboy there too,
399
00:18:55,234 --> 00:18:57,735
and Madonna was hanging out.
400
00:18:57,736 --> 00:19:00,505
BRIAN BUTTERICK: They advertised
having a full bar
401
00:19:00,506 --> 00:19:02,340
until 8:00 in the morning.
402
00:19:02,341 --> 00:19:06,844
m the time, mind you,
totally a mob operation.
403
00:19:06,845 --> 00:19:08,446
3 TEENS KILL 4: J" This is a hold up, hold up J"
404
00:19:08,447 --> 00:19:12,250
J" hold up, hold up - J"
405
00:19:12,251 --> 00:19:14,663
[siren blaring]
406
00:19:17,623 --> 00:19:20,691
BRIAN: We were raided,
and a bunch of us went to jail.
407
00:19:20,692 --> 00:19:22,793
David escaped.
408
00:19:22,794 --> 00:19:26,230
And then he had concocted
a Molotov cocktail
409
00:19:26,231 --> 00:19:29,267
apparently when they pulled up
the police vehicle.
410
00:19:29,268 --> 00:19:31,680
[music]
411
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,474
BRIAN: But we couldn't
figure out how to do it
412
00:19:36,475 --> 00:19:39,410
without, you know,
hurting people.
413
00:19:39,411 --> 00:19:41,512
JESSE: We'd spent a night
in jail
414
00:19:41,513 --> 00:19:45,716
and then gtamorized that event,
you know, we put on a show.
415
00:19:45,717 --> 00:19:48,886
BRIAN: Now, l don't know
why we felt we needed a benefit
416
00:19:48,887 --> 00:19:53,324
for funds because the mob
paid for fucking lawyers
417
00:19:53,325 --> 00:19:57,428
so that our case is dismissed.
418
00:19:57,429 --> 00:19:57,562
[music]
419
00:19:57,563 --> 00:19:58,930
[music]
420
00:19:58,931 --> 00:20:00,898
MAN: Jerry?
421
00:20:00,899 --> 00:20:03,901
A time more volume
on the drums.
422
00:20:03,902 --> 00:20:05,736
BRIAN: And anyway
we had a benefit
423
00:20:05,737 --> 00:20:08,372
that we threw together
as 3 Teens Kit! 4.
424
00:20:08,373 --> 00:20:10,641
MAN". Uno, dos, tres, quatro.
425
00:20:10,642 --> 00:20:14,852
J" - see the man twisted J"
426
00:20:17,216 --> 00:20:18,950
J" Really, really, really,
really, really J"
427
00:20:18,951 --> 00:20:22,353
J" Really, really, really - J"
428
00:20:22,354 --> 00:20:24,488
BRIAN: But after we played
the first gig,
429
00:20:24,489 --> 00:20:27,792
Jesse and I and David
wanted to continue it.
430
00:20:27,793 --> 00:20:30,528
JULIE HAIR: I knew
their drummer had fallen out.
431
00:20:30,529 --> 00:20:32,563
t went and bought
a rhythm machine
432
00:20:32,564 --> 00:20:34,465
because I didn't know
how to play anything.
433
00:20:34,466 --> 00:20:35,967
I thought,
โWell, I can push buttons,
434
00:20:35,968 --> 00:20:37,969
so I did that.โ
435
00:20:37,970 --> 00:20:39,470
JESSE". t don't think any ox' us
were very proficient,
436
00:20:39,471 --> 00:20:41,372
but it wasn't really the point.
437
00:20:41,373 --> 00:20:43,608
R was an effort to not
really necessarily make music,
438
00:20:43,609 --> 00:20:46,978
but to have a film almost
for your ears.
439
00:20:46,979 --> 00:20:49,585
[music]
440
00:20:52,718 --> 00:20:55,319
JESSE. We ended up calling it
the Cacophonic Barrage.
441
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,021
[boat honks]
442
00:20:57,022 --> 00:20:58,723
JESSE". As opposed to music.
443
00:20:58,724 --> 00:21:00,758
JULIE: We were really ahead
of our time
444
00:21:00,759 --> 00:21:03,694
with the music samples, and
that was David's instrument.
445
00:21:03,695 --> 00:21:06,631
CARLO". David would come up
to a mic with his handheld
446
00:21:06,632 --> 00:21:09,267
tape recorder and blast sounds.
447
00:21:09,268 --> 00:21:10,735
MAN: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
448
00:21:10,736 --> 00:21:14,038
Yes. Because ox' the guns
and the grenade,
449
00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:16,507
a great equalizer that used
to be something
450
00:21:16,508 --> 00:21:20,544
to a revolver and made all men
six feet tall.
451
00:21:20,545 --> 00:21:22,346
JULIE: I heard a rumor
that Frank Zappa
452
00:21:22,347 --> 00:21:24,649
was in the audience one time
when we played,
453
00:21:24,650 --> 00:21:28,586
and he said that we used
the tapes like lead guitar,
454
00:21:28,587 --> 00:21:30,454
which I thought
was a great comment.
455
00:21:30,455 --> 00:21:33,391
REVEREND JIMMY SWAGGART:
There was a time in America,
456
00:21:33,392 --> 00:21:37,828
that ix' a, โglory holeโ
appears,
457
00:21:37,829 --> 00:21:39,397
the police would throw them
458
00:21:39,398 --> 00:21:44,035
in }ail on morals' charges.
459
00:21:44,036 --> 00:21:46,904
Limp-wristed sissies.
460
00:21:46,905 --> 00:21:50,541
[music]
461
00:21:50,542 --> 00:21:52,943
JULIE: David wasn't really
of the art world.
462
00:21:52,944 --> 00:21:55,546
At that point in time,
he was just an individual
463
00:21:55,547 --> 00:21:57,081
that was doing his thing.
464
00:21:57,082 --> 00:22:00,551
He used to come over
to my house to make art
465
00:22:00,552 --> 00:22:04,388
because there was more room
in my house than in his house,
466
00:22:04,389 --> 00:22:07,491
which is funny, because t had
a tiny East Village apartment
467
00:22:07,492 --> 00:22:10,628
with a bathtub and a kitchen,
and a toilet in the hallway.
468
00:22:10,629 --> 00:22:12,596
We would get on the floor
and make stencils,
469
00:22:12,597 --> 00:22:14,598
and posters for the band.
470
00:22:14,599 --> 00:22:19,403
[music]
471
00:22:19,404 --> 00:22:21,706
DAVID: We made fall posters,
put them up in the street
472
00:22:21,707 --> 00:22:25,910
most of them are -
473
00:22:25,911 --> 00:22:28,045
So we started thinking
about more permanent things,
474
00:22:28,046 --> 00:22:31,882
the most certain thing
out in the street.
475
00:22:31,883 --> 00:22:35,586
- Images around the -
at the street.
476
00:22:35,587 --> 00:22:37,999
[music]
477
00:22:41,426 --> 00:22:42,760
DAVID: But I didn't
have any intention
478
00:22:42,761 --> 00:22:44,895
ox' being a street artist.
479
00:22:44,896 --> 00:22:47,732
I was just being provocative.
480
00:22:47,733 --> 00:22:50,134
MAN". Ready on the firing line.
481
00:22:50,135 --> 00:22:51,902
DAVID: Every night,
I went downtown,
482
00:22:51,903 --> 00:22:54,805
did every gallery door
I could find with images
483
00:22:54,806 --> 00:22:59,806
ox' the burning house,
the plane, and the figure.
484
00:23:00,779 --> 00:23:04,782
R was an aggressive thing.
485
00:23:04,783 --> 00:23:08,719
This idea of New York City
streets filled with soldiers,
486
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,855
that kind ox' tense atmosphere.
487
00:23:10,856 --> 00:23:13,457
MAN: Halt, left flank, halt.
488
00:23:13,458 --> 00:23:15,159
[plane whirring]
489
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,094
[gunshot]
490
00:23:17,095 --> 00:23:21,031
[music]
491
00:23:21,032 --> 00:23:22,867
CARLO". I was this rabid fan
ox' David.
492
00:23:22,868 --> 00:23:25,469
He was pretty obscure
at that time.
493
00:23:25,470 --> 00:23:29,106
But I knew about the piece him
and Julie Hair did
494
00:23:29,107 --> 00:23:31,675
on the Leo Castelli building,
495
00:23:31,676 --> 00:23:34,111
the shrine to contemporary art
at that time.
496
00:23:34,112 --> 00:23:36,180
DAVID: Julie and I wanted to do
a series
497
00:23:36,181 --> 00:23:38,849
of action installations,
which were basically
498
00:23:38,850 --> 00:23:40,951
uninvited installations.
499
00:23:40,952 --> 00:23:45,122
We wanted to open up
what culture was to us
500
00:23:45,123 --> 00:23:49,794
as opposed to what was handled
by rich white people.
501
00:23:49,795 --> 00:23:53,497
JULIE: I don't really remember
any planning stages of this,
502
00:23:53,498 --> 00:23:56,901
but we went to the west side
503
00:23:56,902 --> 00:23:59,503
where all the butchers were.
504
00:23:59,504 --> 00:24:01,205
FRAN: The Meatpacking District,
which used to be
505
00:24:01,206 --> 00:24:04,208
a Meatpacking District,
you would never wanna go there
506
00:24:04,209 --> 00:24:06,110
because of the smell of blood
507
00:24:06,111 --> 00:24:09,079
from the actually butchering
and packing meat.
508
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,982
JULIE: There were big cans
outside of the butchers'
509
00:24:11,983 --> 00:24:14,518
with giant cow bones in them.
510
00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:16,220
So, we've got a bunch ox' bones,
511
00:24:16,221 --> 00:24:18,689
we put them
in this little wagon.
512
00:24:18,690 --> 00:24:20,624
DAVID: We brought
a couple hundred pounds
513
00:24:20,625 --> 00:24:25,162
ox' bloody cow bones,
dumped them into the staircase.
514
00:24:25,163 --> 00:24:28,466
Did a stencil painting with
spray paint ox' the empty plate,
515
00:24:28,467 --> 00:24:29,500
a knife, and a fork.
516
00:24:29,501 --> 00:24:30,835
MAN". Left, right, halt.
517
00:24:30,836 --> 00:24:32,236
DAVID:
And then military bombers,
518
00:24:32,237 --> 00:24:33,871
houses, and planes,
519
00:24:33,872 --> 00:24:35,673
and figures
recoiling on the wall,
520
00:24:35,674 --> 00:24:37,208
and then left.
521
00:24:37,209 --> 00:24:38,976
CARLO". They stenciled
the despair ox' New York
522
00:24:38,977 --> 00:24:40,711
at that time,
and then they poured gallons
523
00:24:40,712 --> 00:24:43,614
and gallons of cow's blood
down the stairs.
524
00:24:43,615 --> 00:24:46,951
DAVID: Nobody seemed to think
anything was amiss.
525
00:24:46,952 --> 00:24:50,020
They had thought it was just
part ox' the art world.
526
00:24:50,021 --> 00:24:52,790
[music]
527
00:24:52,791 --> 00:24:55,793
MAN". Left, right, halt.
528
00:24:55,794 --> 00:25:00,264
[music]
529
00:25:00,265 --> 00:25:01,899
DAVID: Six months later,
530
00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:04,568
I was still doing stuff
on the street.
531
00:25:04,569 --> 00:25:05,736
That's when somebody
approached me
532
00:25:05,737 --> 00:25:07,238
from one ox' the galleries,
533
00:25:07,239 --> 00:25:08,839
asked me ix' I wanted to put
a painting
534
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,141
in one of the shows,
so I said sure.
535
00:25:11,142 --> 00:25:13,713
[music]
536
00:25:16,147 --> 00:25:17,848
CYNTHIA: David ends up
in a show with people
537
00:25:17,849 --> 00:25:20,150
like Julian Schnabel
and David Hockney,
538
00:25:20,151 --> 00:25:21,752
and lots of people
who were famous.
539
00:25:21,753 --> 00:25:25,122
He was completely unknown.
540
00:25:25,123 --> 00:25:27,258
[siren blaring]
541
00:25:27,259 --> 00:25:29,093
ALAN BARROWS: A lot of artists
were doing graffiti
542
00:25:29,094 --> 00:25:31,962
in the East Village.
Keith Haring and Basquiat,
543
00:25:31,963 --> 00:25:33,931
and David was doing it.
544
00:25:33,932 --> 00:25:36,133
SUR RODNEY SUR: There were
no resources like now.
545
00:25:36,134 --> 00:25:37,835
You can go down
to the Lower East Side
546
00:25:37,836 --> 00:25:39,904
and there's like a dozen
young galleries
547
00:25:39,905 --> 00:25:41,772
you've never heard
ox' that are showing style.
548
00:25:41,773 --> 00:25:43,674
There was nothing.
549
00:25:43,675 --> 00:25:46,810
There was SoHo,
and there was uptown,
550
00:25:46,811 --> 00:25:49,780
and there were
these established galleries.
551
00:25:49,781 --> 00:25:52,283
ALAN: We didn't fee!
we had any entree into there
552
00:25:52,284 --> 00:25:55,686
so we created space so we could
show our work and have fun.
553
00:25:55,687 --> 00:25:57,922
[music]
554
00:25:57,923 --> 00:26:00,658
ALAN: Dean Savard and I
started the gallery
555
00:26:00,659 --> 00:26:04,728
through a series
ox' one-night parties.
556
00:26:04,729 --> 00:26:07,898
There was no real intention
oi' making any money.
557
00:26:07,899 --> 00:26:09,934
We would put the art up
for one night,
558
00:26:09,935 --> 00:26:12,703
we invite friends
and sat around on the floor
559
00:26:12,704 --> 00:26:15,810
drinking beer and smoking pot,
talking about art.
560
00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:19,677
GRACIE MANSION: When my gallery
first started,
561
00:26:19,678 --> 00:26:23,013
it had gotten t think
$200 back from my taxes.
562
00:26:23,014 --> 00:26:25,316
And t thought, oh,
let's have a party.
563
00:26:25,317 --> 00:26:27,284
I had photographs
in my bathroom
564
00:26:27,285 --> 00:26:29,853
and my bathroom was a toilet
and three walls
565
00:26:29,854 --> 00:26:31,731
because
the bathtub was in the kitchen.
566
00:26:36,728 --> 00:26:40,197
Never did t think that anybody
would show up after the party.
567
00:26:40,198 --> 00:26:41,966
ALAN: Eventually
we decided that, 0h,
568
00:26:41,967 --> 00:26:44,301
we'll leave the art up
for a little longer.
569
00:26:44,302 --> 00:26:49,073
We were really drawn to David's
militaristic imagery.
570
00:26:49,074 --> 00:26:51,953
We decided that we would
put them into a group show.
571
00:26:55,213 --> 00:26:59,083
We put this realty
large painting that David did.
572
00:26:59,084 --> 00:27:03,153
It was one of the most unusual
things I had seen an artist do
573
00:27:03,154 --> 00:27:06,323
expressing what was going on
around us at the time,
574
00:27:06,324 --> 00:27:08,859
where mankind stood
at that point
575
00:27:08,860 --> 00:27:11,962
where self-annihilation
could occur.
576
00:27:11,963 --> 00:27:14,331
We were actually trying
to sell the work.
577
00:27:14,332 --> 00:27:16,233
Pm trying to remember
how much we were asking for it.
578
00:27:16,234 --> 00:27:19,269
I think probably around $5,000.
579
00:27:19,270 --> 00:27:21,372
Ox' course we didn't sell it
because nobody was coming
580
00:27:21,373 --> 00:27:25,709
into the gallery with that kind
ox' money back then.
581
00:27:25,710 --> 00:27:27,211
SUR: The interesting thing
about the East Village,
582
00:27:27,212 --> 00:27:28,979
so when there were artists
that were realty
583
00:27:28,980 --> 00:27:31,915
kind ox' special,
everybody knew about it
584
00:27:31,916 --> 00:27:33,751
or there'd be this buzz
about it.
585
00:27:33,752 --> 00:27:35,386
So, there was a time bit
of buzz about David.
586
00:27:35,387 --> 00:27:37,187
GRACIE: He had that book,
Sounds in the Distance,
587
00:27:37,188 --> 00:27:38,956
which came out.
588
00:27:38,957 --> 00:27:40,391
And I was so impressed
because on the back
589
00:27:40,392 --> 00:27:42,126
il had Blur
by William Burroughs.
590
00:27:42,127 --> 00:27:44,828
And I was like, oh, my God,
this artist
591
00:27:44,829 --> 00:27:47,197
must be really incredible
because William Burroughs
592
00:27:47,198 --> 00:27:49,767
wrote something about it.
593
00:27:49,768 --> 00:27:53,370
When we did the Famous Show,
which was in '82,
594
00:27:53,371 --> 00:27:56,306
we were looking for portraits
ox' famous people
595
00:27:56,307 --> 00:27:58,809
by famous
and soon to be famous artists.
596
00:27:58,810 --> 00:28:01,445
David brought in this painting,
Peter Hujar
597
00:28:01,446 --> 00:28:04,682
Dreaming about Yukio Mishima
in Saint Sebastian
598
00:28:04,683 --> 00:28:06,216
at the last minute
after everything
599
00:28:06,217 --> 00:28:07,818
was already up in the wall.
600
00:28:07,819 --> 00:28:09,887
- SUR". Typical.
- GRACE". Typical.
601
00:28:09,888 --> 00:28:11,288
SUR". There was like no space
602
00:28:11,289 --> 00:28:12,456
because there were
so many people
603
00:28:12,457 --> 00:28:14,324
and he had a really big piece.
604
00:28:14,325 --> 00:28:15,693
So, where are you gonna put
a really big piece?
605
00:28:15,694 --> 00:28:17,227
You hang it from the ceiling.
606
00:28:17,228 --> 00:28:19,229
GRACIE: That's why
I love this photograph
607
00:28:19,230 --> 00:28:21,432
ox' the opening where you can't
realty see any ox' the art
608
00:28:21,433 --> 00:28:24,401
but you can see David's piece
because it's on the ceiling.
609
00:28:24,402 --> 00:28:27,071
[laughs]
610
00:28:27,072 --> 00:28:29,073
DAVID: The early images
were all simple images.
611
00:28:29,074 --> 00:28:30,441
But t just wanted
to record things
612
00:28:30,442 --> 00:28:32,409
that! (MM see
people recording
613
00:28:32,410 --> 00:28:34,978
and painting at that time.
614
00:28:34,979 --> 00:28:37,881
You know, I wanted to record
my own history
615
00:28:37,882 --> 00:28:40,250
or different history.
616
00:28:40,251 --> 00:28:42,853
And that's what painting
originally was for me.
617
00:28:42,854 --> 00:28:45,789
All the paintings are diaries
that I always thought
618
00:28:45,790 --> 00:28:48,425
as prom' ox' my own existence.
619
00:28:48,426 --> 00:28:50,861
[music]
620
00:28:50,862 --> 00:28:52,239
[music]
621
00:28:56,434 --> 00:28:58,869
MAN". Welcome 3 Teens Kill 4.
622
00:28:58,870 --> 00:29:02,806
[cheers and applause]
623
00:29:02,807 --> 00:29:05,342
MAN: - Reagan. White House
confirmed a short time later
624
00:29:05,343 --> 00:29:07,511
that the President
had indeed been shot.
625
00:29:07,512 --> 00:29:11,081
The President was shot
once in the left chest.
626
00:29:11,082 --> 00:29:13,851
The bullet
entered from the left side.
627
00:29:13,852 --> 00:29:15,519
He is in stable condition.
628
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,187
Mrs. Reagan
rushed to the hospital
629
00:29:17,188 --> 00:29:18,822
and the President
jokingly told her,
630
00:29:18,823 --> 00:29:21,091
โHoney, I forgot to duck.โ
631
00:29:21,092 --> 00:29:23,060
DOUG BRESSLER: 1 think
he misconstrued
632
00:29:23,061 --> 00:29:26,196
that one is celebrating
Reagan's assassination attempt.
633
00:29:26,197 --> 00:29:28,031
R's media critique.
634
00:29:28,032 --> 00:29:29,767
MAN: He was wheeled
into surgery and he quipped
635
00:29:29,768 --> 00:29:32,044
to the doctors, โ! hope
you're all Republicans.โ
636
00:29:36,941 --> 00:29:38,375
We are all
essential laborers J"
637
00:29:38,376 --> 00:29:40,310
J" Laborers, laborers J"
638
00:29:40,311 --> 00:29:42,312
MAN: 3 Teens Kill 4
had a song called Hunger
639
00:29:42,313 --> 00:29:45,916
which was the underclass
and disparity
640
00:29:45,917 --> 00:29:47,484
ox' wealth in this country.
641
00:29:47,485 --> 00:29:49,119
J" I see these things
every day J"
642
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:50,921
3 TEENS KILL 4: J" Every day, every day J"
643
00:29:50,922 --> 00:29:52,456
J" Television candidates
with singular vision J"
644
00:29:52,457 --> 00:29:54,024
3 TEENS KILL 4: Vision,
vision, vision, vision J"
645
00:29:54,025 --> 00:29:55,826
J" Grey images
of freezing homes J"
646
00:29:55,827 --> 00:29:57,261
3 TEENS KILL 4:
โช Homes, homes, homes, homes โช
647
00:29:57,262 --> 00:29:59,029
J" People combing through
garbage reefs J"
648
00:29:59,030 --> 00:30:00,330
3 TEENS KILL 4: J" Garbage reefs,
garbage reefs J"
649
00:30:00,331 --> 00:30:02,099
J" S0 we continue,
so we consume J"
650
00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:03,400
3 TEENS KILL 43 โช S0 We
continue, so we consume J"
651
00:30:03,401 --> 00:30:05,169
J" S0 we continue,
so we consume J"
652
00:30:05,170 --> 00:30:07,337
3 TEENS KILL 43 โช S0 We
continue, so we consume J"
653
00:30:07,338 --> 00:30:09,973
DAVID: last night,
I ran into Brian and Jesse,
654
00:30:09,974 --> 00:30:11,875
discovered them to be
in a big discussion
655
00:30:11,876 --> 00:30:16,380
about the politics m' clubs
and politics ox' dance.
656
00:30:16,381 --> 00:30:19,516
They just did not wanna
hear it.
657
00:30:19,517 --> 00:30:21,351
When you're trying to do
a fucking job
658
00:30:21,352 --> 00:30:23,353
and support yourself
and be able to do things
659
00:30:23,354 --> 00:30:26,924
that you feet realty important.
660
00:30:26,925 --> 00:30:28,325
JESSE. There were lots
of different reasons
661
00:30:28,326 --> 00:30:30,160
why he wanted to leave the
band.
662
00:30:30,161 --> 00:30:32,196
He wanted to do painting.
663
00:30:32,197 --> 00:30:33,964
He wanted to have more control
over whatever he was doing.
664
00:30:33,965 --> 00:30:36,066
r remember having an argument
with David.
665
00:30:36,067 --> 00:30:38,068
He said to me,
โI can'! really be friends
666
00:30:38,069 --> 00:30:41,038
with someone who doesn't like
what I do artistically"
667
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:42,840
I said, โWell, David.
668
00:30:42,841 --> 00:30:44,474
There's a lot of your art
that! don't like
669
00:30:44,475 --> 00:30:46,543
and there's a lot of that anger
that! don't relate to
670
00:30:46,544 --> 00:30:48,956
and don't necessarily
would wanna collaborate with.โ
671
00:30:53,151 --> 00:30:54,585
DAVID: Hi.
This is Helen of Troy
672
00:30:54,586 --> 00:30:57,087
calling from Poughkeepsie.
673
00:30:57,088 --> 00:30:59,923
Oh, I got you on that one.
Ha-ha. Good-bye.
674
00:30:59,924 --> 00:31:03,531
[music]
675
00:31:08,433 --> 00:31:09,571
MAN: Hi. This is -
676
00:31:14,606 --> 00:31:16,573
- DAVID: Why?
- DIRK ROWNTREEI David
677
00:31:16,574 --> 00:31:21,144
came over to our place
early one morning.
678
00:31:21,145 --> 00:31:23,981
He said, โYou guys
got to come to this huge pier
679
00:31:23,982 --> 00:31:27,417
with all these walls
and there's nobody there."
680
00:31:27,418 --> 00:31:31,021
We had to slip
under a chain-link fence,
681
00:31:31,022 --> 00:31:35,492
got into the building,
and it was really impressive,
682
00:31:35,493 --> 00:31:39,329
remarkable space,
for years been abandoned
683
00:31:39,330 --> 00:31:42,140
like a couple football fields
in size.
684
00:31:44,035 --> 00:31:46,370
The idea was for artists
685
00:31:46,371 --> 00:31:49,339
to make work there
surreptitiously.
686
00:31:49,340 --> 00:31:52,542
R was very adventurous
and illegal.
687
00:31:52,543 --> 00:31:54,211
CARLO". And that was very much
connected
688
00:31:54,212 --> 00:31:56,914
to David's knowledge
ox' the piers
689
00:31:56,915 --> 00:32:00,517
as a place for sexual tryst
and that whole subculture
690
00:32:00,518 --> 00:32:03,520
around it in a way
they kind ox' spoiled that spot.
691
00:32:03,521 --> 00:32:05,455
And we can'! go there
for their acts anymore
692
00:32:05,456 --> 00:32:08,458
because there are too many
people traipsing through.
693
00:32:08,459 --> 00:32:12,462
KIKI SMITH: The ground floor
was thousands of square feet
694
00:32:12,463 --> 00:32:14,932
with very high ceilings.
695
00:32:14,933 --> 00:32:17,067
And upstairs there were rooms.
696
00:32:17,068 --> 00:32:19,069
David and I found
697
00:32:19,070 --> 00:32:23,246
piles ox' discarded files
698
00:32:26,277 --> 00:32:29,579
and psychological evaluations
from Bellevue.
699
00:32:29,580 --> 00:32:32,584
[music]
700
00:32:34,452 --> 00:32:36,720
KIKI: They had them draw
pictures of men and women
701
00:32:36,721 --> 00:32:39,589
and, yeah, most were
very, very loose, you know.
702
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:41,325
R's like how you drew
703
00:32:41,326 --> 00:32:43,193
in elementary school
or something like that.
704
00:32:43,194 --> 00:32:45,629
And then others were sort of
more you would say like
705
00:32:45,630 --> 00:32:47,731
in quote "sophisticated,"
or this and that.
706
00:32:47,732 --> 00:32:50,434
But they were very emotional
707
00:32:50,435 --> 00:32:53,737
and had a great deal
of resonance in them.
708
00:32:53,738 --> 00:32:55,439
Hi. David, {his is Kiki.
709
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,174
I think you've got my squeegee
710
00:32:57,175 --> 00:32:59,376
for silkscreening
and I need it.
711
00:32:59,377 --> 00:33:01,111
Okay. Bye-bye-
712
00:33:01,112 --> 00:33:03,146
So, I was doing
a lot ox' silkscreening then
713
00:33:03,147 --> 00:33:06,128
and I taught him
how to make silkscreens.
714
00:33:08,386 --> 00:33:10,654
So we decided
to use these images
715
00:33:10,655 --> 00:33:13,329
and make a collaboration.
716
00:33:20,231 --> 00:33:22,299
MARION SCEMAMA:
The first time I met David,
717
00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:25,602
it wasn't physically.
718
00:33:25,603 --> 00:33:30,245
H was more mind to mind,
like vibration.
719
00:33:32,143 --> 00:33:33,777
R was summer '83.
720
00:33:33,778 --> 00:33:36,546
I wasn't involved
in the art scene.
721
00:33:36,547 --> 00:33:39,216
But one day,
there's a French photographer
722
00:33:39,217 --> 00:33:43,353
who came to visit New York
and he said,
723
00:33:43,354 --> 00:33:45,322
โDid you hear about
the abandoned pier
724
00:33:45,323 --> 00:33:47,057
where all these artists go
725
00:33:47,058 --> 00:33:48,792
and paint on the walls
and do things?โ
726
00:33:48,793 --> 00:33:50,363
And I said, โNo?
727
00:33:53,698 --> 00:33:56,400
He took me there.
728
00:33:56,401 --> 00:33:59,036
I fell in love with that place,
you know.
729
00:33:59,037 --> 00:34:04,037
R was like
so deathly romantic.
730
00:34:04,175 --> 00:34:07,677
One day somebody told me
the story of this artist,
731
00:34:07,678 --> 00:34:10,814
David Wojnarowicz,
who opened the place.
732
00:34:10,815 --> 00:34:14,818
And I remember right away
I had a crush on this guy.
733
00:34:14,819 --> 00:34:18,221
I thought this guy
must really be great, you know,
734
00:34:18,222 --> 00:34:20,090
to open a place like that,
735
00:34:20,091 --> 00:34:24,428
to call people to come
and collaborate and paint.
736
00:34:24,429 --> 00:34:27,535
For me, he was already
somebody special.
737
00:34:29,367 --> 00:34:31,435
CARLO". in the end, you know,
hundreds of artists
738
00:34:31,436 --> 00:34:34,271
were doing things there
and French fashion magazines
739
00:34:34,272 --> 00:34:36,373
were doing shoots in there.
740
00:34:36,374 --> 00:34:39,150
ANDREAS STERZING:
It got so big that police came.
741
00:34:41,312 --> 00:34:44,381
They closed it down.
742
00:34:44,382 --> 00:34:47,784
The whole magic was lost.
743
00:34:47,785 --> 00:34:51,388
They started tearing it down
744
00:34:51,389 --> 00:34:54,224
and I have a picture
ox' the Gagging Cow ox' David's
745
00:34:54,225 --> 00:34:56,501
while it appears
being pulled down.
746
00:34:58,663 --> 00:35:03,840
And then the pier disappeared
into the river and was gone.
747
00:35:05,736 --> 00:35:09,606
t think the East Village scene
exploded at the same time.
748
00:35:09,607 --> 00:35:13,810
ALAN". โwasn't until after he had
his first solo exhibition for us
749
00:35:13,811 --> 00:35:16,413
that everything broke loose.
750
00:35:16,414 --> 00:35:18,482
The first exhibition
was very interesting
751
00:35:18,483 --> 00:35:20,150
in a sense
that it was something
752
00:35:20,151 --> 00:35:21,818
nobody had really seen before,
753
00:35:21,819 --> 00:35:23,720
painting things
that weren't realty intended
754
00:35:23,721 --> 00:35:25,555
to be painted on.
755
00:35:25,556 --> 00:35:28,592
He'd stencil images
over supermarket posters,
756
00:35:28,593 --> 00:35:31,595
trashcan lids, driftwood.
757
00:35:31,596 --> 00:35:33,763
Everything was about
something that was found
758
00:35:33,764 --> 00:35:36,133
and didn't cost anything
because, again,
759
00:35:36,134 --> 00:35:37,667
nobody had any money.
760
00:35:37,668 --> 00:35:40,437
It was that exhibition
that Grace Glueck,
761
00:35:40,438 --> 00:35:43,707
the New York Times art critic
rode up on her bicycle,
762
00:35:43,708 --> 00:35:44,875
started looking
into the artwork,
763
00:35:44,876 --> 00:35:46,810
asking us about the artist
764
00:35:46,811 --> 00:35:50,480
and asked for a photograph
ox' one ox' David's pieces.
765
00:35:50,481 --> 00:35:54,184
DAVID: Grace Glueck showed up
and was really -
766
00:35:54,185 --> 00:35:55,752
that she wanted
to write something.
767
00:35:55,753 --> 00:35:57,854
And so for us,
it was very tongue-in-cheek
768
00:35:57,855 --> 00:36:00,257
you know, did the very
serious interviews.
769
00:36:00,258 --> 00:36:01,625
And she went around - hours
770
00:36:01,626 --> 00:36:03,627
at Gracie's
and suddenly boom.
771
00:36:03,628 --> 00:36:06,897
ALAN: An article appeared
in the Sunday Lifestyle section
772
00:36:06,898 --> 00:36:08,798
of the New York Times.
773
00:36:08,799 --> 00:36:10,500
lt talked about the galleries
in the East Village,
774
00:36:10,501 --> 00:36:11,902
David's artwork.
775
00:36:11,903 --> 00:36:13,503
It was after
that the collectors
776
00:36:13,504 --> 00:36:17,240
really started coming down.
777
00:36:17,241 --> 00:36:21,511
This limousine pulls up
in front ox' our little gritty
778
00:36:21,512 --> 00:36:23,847
drug-infested street.
779
00:36:23,848 --> 00:36:26,516
Robert Pincus-Witten, who was
an art critic in New York,
780
00:36:26,517 --> 00:36:28,451
and a very elegant woman,
781
00:36:28,452 --> 00:36:29,920
comes in at the gallery
782
00:36:29,921 --> 00:36:32,255
and baked at
each piece examining.
783
00:36:32,256 --> 00:36:34,491
Robert's whispering
in her ear.
784
00:36:34,492 --> 00:36:37,594
Soon after he said,
"We'll take this one,
785
00:36:37,595 --> 00:36:39,262
this one, this one,
and this one.
786
00:36:39,263 --> 00:36:40,697
We'll take that one over there.
787
00:36:40,698 --> 00:36:42,332
And it was like, oh, my God.
788
00:36:42,333 --> 00:36:44,334
I practically
ran over to the pier
789
00:36:44,335 --> 00:36:46,703
and then David and Dean
were having a beer.
790
00:36:46,704 --> 00:36:48,972
1 said, โOh, my God.
We sold so much work.โ
791
00:36:48,973 --> 00:36:51,675
R was such a euphoric feeling.
792
00:36:51,676 --> 00:36:53,577
CARLO". All ox' a sudden,
the art worlds gave
793
00:36:53,578 --> 00:36:56,746
this East Village scene
its 15 minutes' fame.
794
00:36:56,747 --> 00:36:57,914
Our neighborhood
now all of a sudden
795
00:36:57,915 --> 00:36:59,749
had 60 galleries in it
796
00:36:59,750 --> 00:37:02,629
and that people were coming
by in limousines.
797
00:37:03,854 --> 00:37:05,455
MAN". โFuck You Faggot Fucker.โ
798
00:37:05,456 --> 00:37:07,424
We were going
around the gallery
799
00:37:07,425 --> 00:37:11,294
putting the names on these
time stickers on the wall.
800
00:37:11,295 --> 00:37:12,829
โAnd what's the name
of this one?โ
801
00:37:12,830 --> 00:37:14,901
And David said,
โFuck You Faggot Fucker.โ
802
00:37:16,867 --> 00:37:20,237
It's a piece of torn paper
that David found on the street
803
00:37:20,238 --> 00:37:23,540
that somebody had written
this homophobic slur on.
804
00:37:23,541 --> 00:37:26,543
And I said,
"David, that's so offensive.
805
00:37:26,544 --> 00:37:28,445
Do we have to call it that?โ
806
00:37:28,446 --> 00:37:31,314
David was like, โThat's
the name that's gonna stick.โ
807
00:37:31,315 --> 00:37:32,849
BARRY BLINDERMAN:
"Fuck Faggot Fucker."
808
00:37:32,850 --> 00:37:34,918
I walked in and the painting
just riveted me.
809
00:37:34,919 --> 00:37:38,388
R's Mo boys kissing
over a map.
810
00:37:38,389 --> 00:37:40,290
And then on the Your comers,
811
00:37:40,291 --> 00:37:43,660
there is Brian Butterick
posing as Saint Sebastian
812
00:37:43,661 --> 00:37:47,731
and there was David
posing in the Christodora.
813
00:37:47,732 --> 00:37:49,966
I said,
"I'll give you $3,000. "
814
00:37:49,967 --> 00:37:51,568
And he said, โSure.โ
815
00:37:51,569 --> 00:37:54,271
Back then 1984,
that was a tot ox' money.
816
00:37:54,272 --> 00:37:57,807
But it's been a prized
possession since then.
817
00:37:57,808 --> 00:37:59,009
MARISSA:
Hi, David. It's Marissa.
818
00:37:59,010 --> 00:38:00,744
Prison Rape is Back.
819
00:38:00,745 --> 00:38:02,779
R just walked in the door
from Montreal.
820
00:38:02,780 --> 00:38:04,948
So could you come and pick
it up as soon as possible?
821
00:38:04,949 --> 00:38:07,284
Thank you. Bye-bye.
822
00:38:07,285 --> 00:38:09,786
MAN: I think a lot of the reason
David is important now
823
00:38:09,787 --> 00:38:12,622
is because people recognized
824
00:38:12,623 --> 00:38:15,058
emergent queer sensibility
in David.
825
00:38:15,059 --> 00:38:17,360
โFm not gay
as in I love you.
826
00:38:17,361 --> 00:38:20,964
I'm queer as in fuck off."
827
00:38:20,965 --> 00:38:25,302
MARION: Everything I did
with David was collaboration.
828
00:38:25,303 --> 00:38:28,972
But the concept ox' it
has always been David.
829
00:38:28,973 --> 00:38:33,973
He proposed to make a poster
about being queer in America.
830
00:38:34,078 --> 00:38:37,347
David knew a place
under the Brooklyn Bridge.
831
00:38:37,348 --> 00:38:39,015
We went there with a truck.
832
00:38:39,016 --> 00:38:41,885
I put some blood
on David's face.
833
00:38:41,886 --> 00:38:44,854
It will lead to a scene
with the lights of the truck
834
00:38:44,855 --> 00:38:46,562
and we took the photo.
835
00:38:50,094 --> 00:38:51,861
When I went to the darkroom
836
00:38:51,862 --> 00:38:56,032
and t started printing
the photo, it scared me.
837
00:38:56,033 --> 00:38:59,369
R really scared me
to see this image ox' David
838
00:38:59,370 --> 00:39:01,705
beat up
coming under the chemicals.
839
00:39:01,706 --> 00:39:03,039
R looked so real.
840
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:04,674
DAVID: A number of months ago,
841
00:39:04,675 --> 00:39:05,809
I read in the newspaper
that there was
842
00:39:05,810 --> 00:39:07,577
a Supreme Court ruling
843
00:39:07,578 --> 00:39:09,446
which states
that homosexuals in America
844
00:39:09,447 --> 00:39:11,381
have no constitutional rights
845
00:39:11,382 --> 00:39:13,483
against the government's
invasion oi' their privacy.
846
00:39:13,484 --> 00:39:16,486
The paper stated only people
who are heterosexual,
847
00:39:16,487 --> 00:39:18,855
or married, or have families
848
00:39:18,856 --> 00:39:20,890
can expect
these constitutional rights.
849
00:39:20,891 --> 00:39:23,960
And realizing I got nothing
left to lose in my actions,
850
00:39:23,961 --> 00:39:27,731
I let my hands become weapons,
my teeth become weapons,
851
00:39:27,732 --> 00:39:29,432
every bone,
and muscle, and fiber,
852
00:39:29,433 --> 00:39:31,134
and ounce ox' blood
because weapons,
853
00:39:31,135 --> 00:39:35,071
and I feel prepared
for the rest ox' my life.
854
00:39:35,072 --> 00:39:36,773
GRACE". Hi, David, it's Gracie.
855
00:39:36,774 --> 00:39:39,509
Can you give me a call at home?
856
00:39:39,510 --> 00:39:40,853
About the Whitney.
857
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,689
'85 was a big year.
858
00:39:52,690 --> 00:39:56,159
David had two major pieces
in the Whitney Biennial.
859
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,027
I mean, that's amazing.
860
00:39:58,028 --> 00:40:00,697
Everything happened
really fast.
861
00:40:00,698 --> 00:40:02,532
Hi, I want to make sure
somebody told you
862
00:40:02,533 --> 00:40:03,933
you made the front page
ox' the Washington Post
863
00:40:03,934 --> 00:40:05,969
on Sunday with the Biennial.
864
00:40:05,970 --> 00:40:08,872
A big reproduction
of your piece, bye-bye.
865
00:40:08,873 --> 00:40:12,909
It was major for all ox' us
to be accepted
866
00:40:12,910 --> 00:40:15,545
in the bigger art world
867
00:40:15,546 --> 00:40:17,414
bu! David wasn't, like,
868
00:40:17,415 --> 00:40:19,716
โOh, my God, I got
into the Whitney Biennial.โ
869
00:40:19,717 --> 00:40:21,451
- Not at all.
- MAN: N0.
870
00:40:21,452 --> 00:40:23,086
GRACIE. No, I mean,
he really thought about
871
00:40:23,087 --> 00:40:25,188
whether he wanted to do it.
872
00:40:25,189 --> 00:40:28,658
MAN: David has a certain
kind of political consciousness
873
00:40:28,659 --> 00:40:31,060
that plays into his work,
who owns it,
874
00:40:31,061 --> 00:40:33,496
where it's shown,
the whole thing.
875
00:40:33,497 --> 00:40:35,565
He was not
particularly thrilled
876
00:40:35,566 --> 00:40:39,569
about a bunch oi' rich money
capitalist people
877
00:40:39,570 --> 00:40:41,638
in the Whitney
thinking that he was great.
878
00:40:41,639 --> 00:40:43,773
There's no gratification
for that in him
879
00:40:43,774 --> 00:40:47,043
and those people are very
classist and judgmental,
880
00:40:47,044 --> 00:40:49,879
he wanted
to be recognized by people
881
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,648
that would appreciate his work,
882
00:40:51,649 --> 00:40:54,451
but the right people
for the right reasons.
883
00:40:54,452 --> 00:40:57,490
You know, Peter Hujar
had a tot of the same attitude.
884
00:41:02,827 --> 00:41:04,227
MAN: Yeah, that's
the only good reason, like,
885
00:41:04,228 --> 00:41:06,463
that there's art stars,
which are people
886
00:41:06,464 --> 00:41:09,468
who make tremendous
amounts ox' money or whatnot.
887
00:41:15,606 --> 00:41:17,017
MAN: I agree.
888
00:41:24,515 --> 00:41:26,115
MAN". That's good. I mean,
889
00:41:26,116 --> 00:41:27,717
it's like they turned
into - manufacturers.
890
00:41:27,718 --> 00:41:28,885
- There's--
- MAN: Yeah, I got--
891
00:41:28,886 --> 00:41:30,153
MAN". --nothing human about it.
892
00:41:30,154 --> 00:41:33,156
There's no hope,
and there's no -
893
00:41:33,157 --> 00:41:35,124
WOMAN: Hey David, did you know
you're in New York Magazine?
894
00:41:35,125 --> 00:41:36,493
They did a review
at the Biennial
895
00:41:36,494 --> 00:41:38,228
and they reproduced your piece
896
00:41:38,229 --> 00:41:40,063
but I also wanted to talk
to you about the Mnuchin.
897
00:41:40,064 --> 00:41:43,099
Okay bye-bye-
898
00:41:43,100 --> 00:41:47,170
WOMAN: Adrian and Robert Mnuchin
were two collectors.
899
00:41:47,171 --> 00:41:50,673
He was on Wall Street
and she had a cashmere store
900
00:41:50,674 --> 00:41:52,141
and her name was Adrian.
901
00:41:52,142 --> 00:41:54,511
Now it's like Adriana
or something.
902
00:41:54,512 --> 00:41:56,646
But anyway,
at that time she was Adrian.
903
00:41:56,647 --> 00:41:58,815
They commissioned David
and it was the most money
904
00:41:58,816 --> 00:42:01,150
that David had ever gotten
tor anything to do
905
00:42:01,151 --> 00:42:04,220
this big installation
in their basement.
906
00:42:04,221 --> 00:42:06,656
He needed the money
so he was glad
907
00:42:06,657 --> 00:42:09,993
that t had made this sate
but a part ox' him
908
00:42:09,994 --> 00:42:13,997
really was very unhappy
about it.
909
00:42:13,998 --> 00:42:16,672
David didn't really like
rich people.
910
00:42:18,536 --> 00:42:21,938
S0 he took all this garbage
off of the street
911
00:42:21,939 --> 00:42:24,613
and put it
into the installation.
912
00:42:27,578 --> 00:42:29,679
CARLO: They were scouring
all the vacant lots
913
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,615
to grab the nastiest shit
they could.
914
00:42:32,616 --> 00:42:34,717
You know, it looked like
the plague had descended
915
00:42:34,718 --> 00:42:36,920
upon their place,
basically filled it with trash
916
00:42:36,921 --> 00:42:38,788
and made a beautiful
installation out of it
917
00:42:38,789 --> 00:42:41,958
but so much ox' it
just looked like tetanus.
918
00:42:41,959 --> 00:42:45,328
WOMAN". And it had bugs.
919
00:42:45,329 --> 00:42:47,964
Adrian was like freaked out
920
00:42:47,965 --> 00:42:49,866
these bugs were being brought
921
00:42:49,867 --> 00:42:53,036
into her pristine brownstone.
922
00:42:53,037 --> 00:42:55,278
Ox' course David loved it,
he brought in more.
923
00:42:57,341 --> 00:42:59,108
GRACE". David, hi, it's Gracie.
924
00:42:59,109 --> 00:43:01,144
I 'm just checking in,
seeing how everything 's
925
00:43:01,145 --> 00:43:02,812
going with the installation,
926
00:43:02,813 --> 00:43:07,283
if you need any help,
and what's up?
927
00:43:07,284 --> 00:43:09,352
Basically just
a what's up call.
928
00:43:09,353 --> 00:43:11,220
Um, okay.
929
00:43:11,221 --> 00:43:13,565
I wanted to talk to you,
okay, bye-bye.
930
00:43:15,326 --> 00:43:18,161
WOMAN: S0 when you look at
the photographs Peter Huja
931
00:43:18,162 --> 00:43:21,164
took ox' that installation,
it was all garbage,
932
00:43:21,165 --> 00:43:24,033
it was great like
a lot ox' figures.
933
00:43:24,034 --> 00:43:25,868
There was the burning child
934
00:43:25,869 --> 00:43:28,071
and there was the big mural
in the background,
935
00:43:28,072 --> 00:43:30,306
there was a tree
and a lot of cow skulls.
936
00:43:30,307 --> 00:43:32,942
R was an incredible
installation.
937
00:43:32,943 --> 00:43:36,813
MAN: Well, in retrospect,
that was Mnuchin.
938
00:43:36,814 --> 00:43:40,149
The A-hole dealer
whose son Steve Mnuchin
939
00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:42,630
is part ox' Trump's cabinet.
940
00:43:44,188 --> 00:43:46,789
I got really angry
of that sudden attention,
941
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:48,358
- money being thrown at me.
- MAN". Yeah.
942
00:43:48,359 --> 00:43:50,259
DAVID: I was starving
for years though here.
943
00:43:50,260 --> 00:43:52,996
And then it suddenly
cross a line where what I make
944
00:43:52,997 --> 00:43:55,765
is feeding me, is--
it's giving me all this stuff
945
00:43:55,766 --> 00:43:58,301
but then I have all this hate
about the structure of that
946
00:43:58,302 --> 00:44:00,069
- because it's so full of shit.
- MAN". Yeah.
947
00:44:00,070 --> 00:44:02,105
DAVID: And this is something
that rattled me.
948
00:44:02,106 --> 00:44:04,240
I realized that
I came out ox' a totally violent
949
00:44:04,241 --> 00:44:06,676
fucked-up background
growing up as a kid,
950
00:44:06,677 --> 00:44:08,778
came to New York,
went out to the streets,
951
00:44:08,779 --> 00:44:10,647
almost died on the streets,
952
00:44:10,648 --> 00:44:12,749
but once you're economics
are taken care of,
953
00:44:12,750 --> 00:44:14,250
once you don't no longer
have to struggle,
954
00:44:14,251 --> 00:44:17,353
pay rent or eat,
any shit that's underneath
955
00:44:17,354 --> 00:44:19,197
goes to the surface.
956
00:44:22,826 --> 00:44:25,695
PM". Hi Dave, this is Pat.
957
00:44:25,696 --> 00:44:29,432
I don't know ix' you're home
or maybe you're sleeping,
958
00:44:29,433 --> 00:44:32,001
well, the first thing
I wanna say
959
00:44:32,002 --> 00:44:35,805
is that your paintings
are fantastic.
960
00:44:35,806 --> 00:44:39,676
I 'm so impressed,
I'm so proud of you,
961
00:44:39,677 --> 00:44:41,911
t tried to take pictures
but they wouldn't
962
00:44:41,912 --> 00:44:43,446
let me use the flash and I...
963
00:44:43,447 --> 00:44:45,281
STEVEN: Patty
was always close to David.
964
00:44:45,282 --> 00:44:47,717
PAT: I love you a lot, bye.
965
00:44:47,718 --> 00:44:51,921
STEVEN". Even after we grew up,
we were completely split up.
966
00:44:51,922 --> 00:44:54,323
So the first time r ever
learned about his artwork,
967
00:44:54,324 --> 00:44:56,693
I picked up some magazines
968
00:44:56,694 --> 00:44:58,394
and there was David
in Life Magazine.
969
00:44:58,395 --> 00:45:00,997
I was so much in awe with--
I was like,
970
00:45:00,998 --> 00:45:03,842
โWow, look where this guy
is at,โ you know.
971
00:45:11,875 --> 00:45:13,843
I finally found a way
to get in touch with him,
972
00:45:13,844 --> 00:45:16,212
it was an interesting thing
to sit down with him,
973
00:45:16,213 --> 00:45:18,781
I came in New York
and he started spewing m'?
974
00:45:18,782 --> 00:45:22,719
about he was
a child prostitute, he's gay.
975
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:27,123
And t get the feeling
that he was testing me.
976
00:45:27,124 --> 00:45:29,225
I think he was afraid
977
00:45:29,226 --> 00:45:33,196
that I would never accept him
being gay.
978
00:45:33,197 --> 00:45:36,399
I just was glad
that he was okay.
979
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,201
David, this is Sieve calling,
980
00:45:38,202 --> 00:45:40,403
I don't know if you need maps
for your artwork
981
00:45:40,404 --> 00:45:43,806
but t just threw out
about 5,000 ox' them today.
982
00:45:43,807 --> 00:45:46,909
I worked for AAA
so he had free maps
983
00:45:46,910 --> 00:45:49,212
whenever he needed them,
Yd make sure he got them.
984
00:45:49,213 --> 00:45:51,147
Maybe I can save you
some money.
985
00:45:51,148 --> 00:45:54,751
Okay. Bye-bye-
986
00:45:54,752 --> 00:45:56,452
RICHARD: Hey David,
this is Richard, you know,
987
00:45:56,453 --> 00:45:58,087
I just wanted to get together
with you and talk about
988
00:45:58,088 --> 00:45:59,222
making a movie
or something like that.
989
00:45:59,223 --> 00:46:01,396
I'm up, give me a buzz, bye.
990
00:46:03,393 --> 00:46:05,161
R was one ox' those nights
991
00:46:05,162 --> 00:46:07,263
David and I
wanted to get high.
992
00:46:07,264 --> 00:46:10,233
I said, โHey, why don't we
try shooting ecstasy?
993
00:46:10,234 --> 00:46:11,804
We got some ox' that.โ
994
00:46:15,973 --> 00:46:20,777
David and I got into this deep,
deep conversation, I said,
995
00:46:20,778 --> 00:46:22,912
โLet's make a movie
where we try to figure out
996
00:46:22,913 --> 00:46:25,381
why young people
are the way they are,
997
00:46:25,382 --> 00:46:29,018
the punks and all that stuff,
and just shot a quick movie."
998
00:46:29,019 --> 00:46:30,887
I think we did it in a day.
999
00:46:30,888 --> 00:46:34,090
David played the father,
Karen Finley played the mother,
1000
00:46:34,091 --> 00:46:36,292
it ended up being
a lot ox' things
1001
00:46:36,293 --> 00:46:39,195
from David's childhood
and he definitely had
1002
00:46:39,196 --> 00:46:41,264
the most fucked-up stories.
1003
00:46:41,265 --> 00:46:43,933
- Don't get away--
- Stop playing with your food.
1004
00:46:43,934 --> 00:46:45,568
Do you call this food'?
1005
00:46:45,569 --> 00:46:47,904
Look, it isn't even fucking
cooked, it's all bloody.
1006
00:46:47,905 --> 00:46:49,405
Shut up.
1007
00:46:49,406 --> 00:46:51,307
RICHARD: David said that
when he was a kid,
1008
00:46:51,308 --> 00:46:52,575
they had a rabbit.
1009
00:46:52,576 --> 00:46:54,210
STEVEN:
My father got us rabbits
1010
00:46:54,211 --> 00:46:56,879
and he said
he gave away the rabbits
1011
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,582
and then Patty
found out somehow
1012
00:46:59,583 --> 00:47:01,517
that he had them butchered
and we winded up
1013
00:47:01,518 --> 00:47:04,487
eating our pet rabbit
which I think was horrific.
1014
00:47:04,488 --> 00:47:06,856
And it really
bothered David too.
1015
00:47:06,857 --> 00:47:09,838
- You know what this is'?
- N0.
1016
00:47:11,562 --> 00:47:13,095
See that'?
1017
00:47:13,096 --> 00:47:14,831
That's my bunny,
what are doing to it'?
1018
00:47:14,832 --> 00:47:17,533
And you know what this is'?
1019
00:47:17,534 --> 00:47:21,003
N0, no, no.
1020
00:47:21,004 --> 00:47:23,406
CYNTHIA: David finally
was starting to deal
1021
00:47:23,407 --> 00:47:26,609
with what had happened to him
during his childhood.
1022
00:47:26,610 --> 00:47:29,378
He started using heroin.
1023
00:47:29,379 --> 00:47:34,379
lt was almost a social drug
in the East Village.
1024
00:47:34,484 --> 00:47:37,320
DAVID: I got so drunk
that I 'm Wing around,
1025
00:47:37,321 --> 00:47:40,523
so I did it in the bathroom.
1026
00:47:40,524 --> 00:47:43,869
The light and everything just
started making me feel sick.
1027
00:47:45,295 --> 00:47:46,996
STEPHEN KOCH:
David took drugs in a way
1028
00:47:46,997 --> 00:47:49,632
that Peter was sure
would destroy him.
1029
00:47:49,633 --> 00:47:53,102
And Peter knew too much
about the way artists
1030
00:47:53,103 --> 00:47:55,371
can sabotage themselves
to let them,
1031
00:47:55,372 --> 00:47:57,240
go one step further.
1032
00:47:57,241 --> 00:47:59,008
At some point, Peter said,
1033
00:47:59,009 --> 00:48:02,211
โDavid, what are those marks
on your arm?โ
1034
00:48:02,212 --> 00:48:04,013
He said, โOh, it's nothing.โ
1035
00:48:04,014 --> 00:48:05,948
He said,
"Don't tell me it's nothing
1036
00:48:05,949 --> 00:48:10,386
and you're going to stop
taking heroin today, right now.
1037
00:48:10,387 --> 00:48:13,556
You will never take it again
as long as you live
1038
00:48:13,557 --> 00:48:17,393
and if you do, I will
never speak to you again,
1039
00:48:17,394 --> 00:48:19,328
you will be dead to me.โ
1040
00:48:19,329 --> 00:48:22,932
FRAN: David started crying
and he'd stopped heroin.
1041
00:48:22,933 --> 00:48:25,434
He never took it again
because Peter was the most
1042
00:48:25,435 --> 00:48:29,205
important relationship
in his life.
1043
00:48:29,206 --> 00:48:30,940
They first had an affair
1044
00:48:30,941 --> 00:48:34,076
but t don't think
that tasted that tong.
1045
00:48:34,077 --> 00:48:36,545
And then they were friends
but at a certain point,
1046
00:48:36,546 --> 00:48:39,615
I really thought of David
as Peter's son.
1047
00:48:39,616 --> 00:48:41,284
Peter didn't think ox' him
as Peter's son
1048
00:48:41,285 --> 00:48:42,485
and probably David didn't
bu! to me,
1049
00:48:42,486 --> 00:48:44,397
that's what it seemed tike.
1050
00:49:11,515 --> 00:49:14,291
TOM RAUFFENBART: I met David
at the Bijou Theater
1051
00:49:16,086 --> 00:49:18,566
which was a gay pom theater.
1052
00:49:20,190 --> 00:49:23,726
Our eyes met and we went
to the bathroom
1053
00:49:23,727 --> 00:49:26,329
and had a little bit of sex
and I said,
1054
00:49:26,330 --> 00:49:28,731
โWhy don't you come over
to my apartment?โ
1055
00:49:28,732 --> 00:49:32,101
Which I rarely did with people
ma! I me! mere,
1056
00:49:32,102 --> 00:49:35,338
but I was just fascinated
with this guy.
1057
00:49:35,339 --> 00:49:37,974
We left and I asked David
what he did and he said
1058
00:49:37,975 --> 00:49:39,342
he was a painter and I said,
1059
00:49:39,343 --> 00:49:41,310
โWhat, ox' houses?โ
And he said,
1060
00:49:41,311 --> 00:49:42,745
โNo, no, no, no,
I paint things.โ
1061
00:49:42,746 --> 00:49:44,647
And apparently
he was quite well-known
1062
00:49:44,648 --> 00:49:46,515
in the East Village
and I didn't know who he was,
1063
00:49:46,516 --> 00:49:48,384
I had no idea.
1064
00:49:48,385 --> 00:49:52,488
So he came over and we had
a really sweet night.
1065
00:49:52,489 --> 00:49:54,190
He left me a little painting
1066
00:49:54,191 --> 00:49:56,292
that he did tor me
that t realty loved.
1067
00:49:56,293 --> 00:49:59,137
And we started
seeing each other.
1068
00:50:01,598 --> 00:50:04,500
I thought my world was very
different after I met David.
1069
00:50:04,501 --> 00:50:07,703
I was totally swept up
with him.
1070
00:50:07,704 --> 00:50:10,473
But here I am, heading out
into the cold winds
1071
00:50:10,474 --> 00:50:12,541
ox' the canyon streets,
walking down and across
1072
00:50:12,542 --> 00:50:14,176
Avenue C towards my home,
1073
00:50:14,177 --> 00:50:15,745
with the smelt
and the taste of him
1074
00:50:15,746 --> 00:50:19,348
wrapped around my neck and jaw
like some scarf.
1075
00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:21,384
And how it follows me
in and out of restaurants
1076
00:50:21,385 --> 00:50:24,086
and past cops,
and early morning children,
1077
00:50:24,087 --> 00:50:26,389
and passed bakery windows
filled with brides and grooms
1078
00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:30,359
on rows, and rows, and rows,
and endless wedding cakes.
1079
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:31,794
PETER: Hey juicy lips,
are you there?
1080
00:50:31,795 --> 00:50:33,729
It's about 12:00..
1081
00:50:33,730 --> 00:50:36,432
MAN: David kept talking
about this best friend of his
1082
00:50:36,433 --> 00:50:39,268
that he had in the East Village
and we had to go see him,
1083
00:50:39,269 --> 00:50:41,037
and his name was Peter
and men Peter,
1084
00:50:41,038 --> 00:50:43,272
and a}! of a sudden I said,
1085
00:50:43,273 --> 00:50:45,041
โAre you talking about
Peter Hujar?โ
1086
00:50:45,042 --> 00:50:46,809
And he said,
โWell, how did you know that?โ
1087
00:50:46,810 --> 00:50:48,544
PETER". Howdy do, howdy do?
1088
00:50:48,545 --> 00:50:51,113
MAN: I said, "Well,
I had a little affair
1089
00:50:51,114 --> 00:50:53,549
in the '70s with Peter
for a month,"
1090
00:50:53,550 --> 00:50:55,284
and I kept thinking,
โOh, great,
1091
00:50:55,285 --> 00:50:57,420
Peter's gonna tell him
I'm an asshole."
1092
00:50:57,421 --> 00:51:01,257
But Peter thought actually
that t was good tor David,
1093
00:51:01,258 --> 00:51:03,092
you know,
that I could help David,
1094
00:51:03,093 --> 00:51:07,063
t could be a settling
kind ox' thing tor him
1095
00:51:07,064 --> 00:51:09,098
which absolutely
probably is true.
1096
00:51:09,099 --> 00:51:12,134
But they were so close
that it was--
1097
00:51:12,135 --> 00:51:13,669
I couldn't even describe
what ma! was,
1098
00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:15,538
much different
than our relationship
1099
00:51:15,539 --> 00:51:17,239
and I was just
trying to figure out
1100
00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:18,641
where I fit in his life.
1101
00:51:18,642 --> 00:51:20,576
He said,
โI have three priorities,
1102
00:51:20,577 --> 00:51:24,146
in this order, Peter,
my art, and you.โ
1103
00:51:24,147 --> 00:51:26,415
And I had to find
that to be okay,
1104
00:51:26,416 --> 00:51:29,218
it was hard at first
but as I looked at it,
1105
00:51:29,219 --> 00:51:30,586
I realized
there was no threat there.
1106
00:51:30,587 --> 00:51:32,421
This was a whole other thing.
1107
00:51:32,422 --> 00:51:35,426
[crowd cheering]
1108
00:51:37,794 --> 00:51:39,428
CARLO: Hi David,
this is Carlo
1109
00:51:39,429 --> 00:51:41,397
wishing you a Happy New Year.
1110
00:51:41,398 --> 00:51:42,798
BRIDGETTE: Hi David,
this is Bridgette,
1111
00:51:42,799 --> 00:51:45,501
I wanted to wish you
Happy New Year.
1112
00:51:45,502 --> 00:51:47,703
MAN". Howdy do, howdy do?
1113
00:51:47,704 --> 00:51:49,405
R's the nufter.
1114
00:51:49,406 --> 00:51:51,140
And the monks last night
were great,
1115
00:51:51,141 --> 00:51:52,308
you would've actually
loved them.
1116
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:53,876
I think there were 10 of them
1117
00:51:53,877 --> 00:51:57,279
and they sang in voices
ma! was like, "Whoa."
1118
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:58,447
You know, deeper than that.
1119
00:51:58,448 --> 00:52:01,183
โOh, uh.โ No, I can'! do R.
1120
00:52:01,184 --> 00:52:05,454
"Oh, hmm, uh. "
1121
00:52:05,455 --> 00:52:06,589
R was really nice,
1122
00:52:06,590 --> 00:52:09,425
they did a healing ceremony.
1123
00:52:09,426 --> 00:52:12,270
Well, anyway, that's all
I have to say, goodbye.
1124
00:52:18,835 --> 00:52:20,903
F RAN : I took Peter to the doctor.
1125
00:52:20,904 --> 00:52:23,539
r don't remember
what was wrong with Peter
1126
00:52:23,540 --> 00:52:27,309
or how Peter left
that made him have that test.
1127
00:52:27,310 --> 00:52:29,145
They didn't tell you there.
1128
00:52:29,146 --> 00:52:31,280
R took Mo weeks
for this test to come back.
1129
00:52:31,281 --> 00:52:35,918
And r remember very much
ma! Peter called me,
1130
00:52:35,919 --> 00:52:37,920
and I can'! describe to you.
1131
00:52:37,921 --> 00:52:40,789
I said, "When-how?"
And he goes, "Fran,"
1132
00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:44,293
and then he made the sound
like, um, like a--
1133
00:52:44,294 --> 00:52:46,362
not a scream
but kind of a scream.
1134
00:52:46,363 --> 00:52:48,464
R more sounded to me
like an animal sound,
1135
00:52:48,465 --> 00:52:50,199
not like a human.
1136
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,569
He said his test
came back positive.
1137
00:52:53,570 --> 00:52:55,671
DAVID: When Peter
was diagnosed with AIDS,
1138
00:52:55,672 --> 00:52:57,273
I came over 10 minutes later.
1139
00:52:57,274 --> 00:52:58,774
He went to meet me at the door
1140
00:52:58,775 --> 00:53:00,643
and there was some
mail letter arrived
1141
00:53:00,644 --> 00:53:02,378
and it fell on the floor
and I remember picking it up
1142
00:53:02,379 --> 00:53:03,946
and turned to him
just to saying,
1143
00:53:03,947 --> 00:53:06,415
even something like
getting a piece ox' mail
1144
00:53:06,416 --> 00:53:08,651
has an entirely
different meaning.
1145
00:53:08,652 --> 00:53:11,487
And from that,
t constructed something
1146
00:53:11,488 --> 00:53:13,661
ox' what this man is facing.
1147
00:53:18,662 --> 00:53:19,962
And I left very sad.
1148
00:53:19,963 --> 00:53:21,797
I felt angry. I felt fear.
1149
00:53:21,798 --> 00:53:25,701
I felt the possibility
oi' my own diagnosis.
1150
00:53:25,702 --> 00:53:27,536
TOM". David was sitting
at the table
1151
00:53:27,537 --> 00:53:28,938
and he was crying
and I didn't know
1152
00:53:28,939 --> 00:53:30,673
what was going on
and he told me
1153
00:53:30,674 --> 00:53:32,841
that Peter
had been diagnosed with AIDS.
1154
00:53:32,842 --> 00:53:34,443
He was destroyed.
1155
00:53:34,444 --> 00:53:35,878
I mean,
it was so emotional for him.
1156
00:53:35,879 --> 00:53:38,914
R was so upsetting.
1157
00:53:38,915 --> 00:53:40,716
ANITA VITALE:
When Peter was diagnosed,
1158
00:53:40,717 --> 00:53:43,519
David asked me
ix' I could help him
1159
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:45,554
because Peter
really had no income.
1160
00:53:45,555 --> 00:53:47,723
He had no money.
He had no--he had nothing
1161
00:53:47,724 --> 00:53:50,526
and he didn't wanna lose
his apartment.
1162
00:53:50,527 --> 00:53:54,396
I worked as Director of
New York City's AIDS Program.
1163
00:53:54,397 --> 00:53:57,633
And it was through Tom
that t met David.
1164
00:53:57,634 --> 00:54:01,605
This was an epidemic
or' great proportions.
1165
00:54:03,807 --> 00:54:06,709
And the city ignored it
tor quite a white.
1166
00:54:06,710 --> 00:54:08,815
m fact, everyone ignored it.
1167
00:54:19,389 --> 00:54:21,890
People with AIDS
who were getting sick
1168
00:54:21,891 --> 00:54:24,727
and losing their jobs,
were coming to apply
1169
00:54:24,728 --> 00:54:28,564
for public assistance
because AIDS
1170
00:54:28,565 --> 00:54:32,334
had a stigma already
none of the traditional systems
1171
00:54:32,335 --> 00:54:34,403
and place wanted anything
to do with them.
1172
00:54:34,404 --> 00:54:36,905
The staff wouldn't touch
their paperwork.
1173
00:54:36,906 --> 00:54:40,251
They often died before
they got any benefits at all.
1174
00:54:42,312 --> 00:54:45,581
Mayor Koch finally decided that
something needed to be done.
1175
00:54:45,582 --> 00:54:48,951
He started a very little
program and r have to say,
1176
00:54:48,952 --> 00:54:52,054
we probably broke every rule
in the book
1177
00:54:52,055 --> 00:54:54,433
in order to get people
what they needed.
1178
00:54:56,359 --> 00:54:58,827
So I went over
like a good caseworker,
1179
00:54:58,828 --> 00:55:00,863
and I fell in love with him.
1180
00:55:00,864 --> 00:55:04,433
I mean,
he was an amazing person.
1181
00:55:04,434 --> 00:55:07,469
I could certainly ease
a lot of his fears,
1182
00:55:07,470 --> 00:55:09,938
he couldn't believe that
he wouldn't lose his apartment
1183
00:55:09,939 --> 00:55:13,609
and he'd have
some kind of income.
1184
00:55:13,610 --> 00:55:15,944
PETER". Hippity-hoppity
happy Easter eggs.
1185
00:55:15,945 --> 00:55:18,981
This is Peter Cottontail.
1186
00:55:18,982 --> 00:55:21,462
This is the
ex-Peter Cottontail.
1187
00:55:24,621 --> 00:55:25,954
Are you there?
1188
00:55:25,955 --> 00:55:27,990
Hello? Howdy do?
1189
00:55:27,991 --> 00:55:29,925
ANITA: Peter was prone
to great depression,
1190
00:55:29,926 --> 00:55:32,928
I mean, he never took a photo
after his diagnosis.
1191
00:55:32,929 --> 00:55:35,466
He gave it up entirely.
1192
00:55:44,874 --> 00:55:46,642
DAVID: A couple of times,
I did confront him
1193
00:55:46,643 --> 00:55:48,510
because I thought he was stuck.
1194
00:55:48,511 --> 00:55:50,346
And that was the only time
I allowed myself
1195
00:55:50,347 --> 00:55:51,814
to confront him
when t thought that he was just
1196
00:55:51,815 --> 00:55:55,017
shutting down
and so full ox' rage
1197
00:55:55,018 --> 00:55:57,931
and not strong enough
to express it.
1198
00:56:07,997 --> 00:56:09,898
And I remember him
threatening to throw himself
1199
00:56:09,899 --> 00:56:11,767
in front of a car
because he was mad.
1200
00:56:11,768 --> 00:56:13,569
And he didn't have the strength
to walk to the curb
1201
00:56:13,570 --> 00:56:17,072
and throw himself
in front of the car.
1202
00:56:17,073 --> 00:56:19,608
He talked about killing himself
endlessly brutally.
1203
00:56:19,609 --> 00:56:21,143
t wanna go to that building
across the street
1204
00:56:21,144 --> 00:56:22,811
and jump off the roof
and he would say,
1205
00:56:22,812 --> 00:56:24,813
"I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna do it. "
1206
00:56:24,814 --> 00:56:26,982
And he would say it every day
until one day we gave him
1207
00:56:26,983 --> 00:56:28,951
a number of a doctor
who would give medicine
1208
00:56:28,952 --> 00:56:30,018
lo kill himself.
1209
00:56:30,019 --> 00:56:31,587
And once I gave him the number,
1210
00:56:31,588 --> 00:56:32,855
he tucked it away
and never spoke
1211
00:56:32,856 --> 00:56:34,733
about killing himself again.
1212
00:56:51,641 --> 00:56:53,876
GRACE".
David had like a huge career,
1213
00:56:53,877 --> 00:56:55,878
then when I did
The Four Elements,
1214
00:56:55,879 --> 00:56:58,714
we didn't sell a thing.
R was over.
1215
00:56:58,715 --> 00:57:00,983
SUR RODNEY SUR: The art world
it very tickle like that.
1216
00:57:00,984 --> 00:57:03,986
Once you start in getting
a certain amount oi' something,
1217
00:57:03,987 --> 00:57:08,657
you have to keep it going,
or it fizzles out.
1218
00:57:08,658 --> 00:57:12,494
t had this naive sense
that once people supported work
1219
00:57:12,495 --> 00:57:15,764
then, that doesn't
just disappear that, you know;
1220
00:57:15,765 --> 00:57:17,633
that they'll watch what you do
1221
00:57:17,634 --> 00:57:19,968
and they'll take interest
and they'll follow it,
1222
00:57:19,969 --> 00:57:22,805
which isn't the case at all.
1223
00:57:22,806 --> 00:57:25,908
CYNTHIA: It was the end
of the East Village scene
1224
00:57:25,909 --> 00:57:28,510
and the so-catted
East Village art
1225
00:57:28,511 --> 00:57:30,855
had just gone out ox' style.
1226
00:57:35,919 --> 00:57:37,786
- [phone beeps]
- PETER: Hi, this is Hujar.
1227
00:57:37,787 --> 00:57:39,922
I'm on my way
to the horse pistol
1228
00:57:39,923 --> 00:57:41,957
to stay there for a while.
1229
00:57:41,958 --> 00:57:46,161
I guess you can find my number
by calling Cabrini Hospital.
1230
00:57:46,162 --> 00:57:48,597
Goodbye.
1231
00:57:48,598 --> 00:57:50,232
WOMAN: He lost weight.
1232
00:57:50,233 --> 00:57:53,135
He had the beginnings
of dementia.
1233
00:57:53,136 --> 00:57:56,205
He just was kind of
fading away.
1234
00:57:56,206 --> 00:57:57,940
DAVID: I'm sitting
in this hospital room
1235
00:57:57,941 --> 00:58:00,776
so high up in the upper
reaches ox' the building
1236
00:58:00,777 --> 00:58:03,178
and leaning against the glass
to the window oi' his room
1237
00:58:03,179 --> 00:58:05,948
where I can see dizzily down
into the street.
1238
00:58:05,949 --> 00:58:09,117
It's a gradual turn of
the Earth outside the windows.
1239
00:58:09,118 --> 00:58:11,997
I wonder what it is to fall
such distances.
1240
00:58:13,957 --> 00:58:17,192
I'm afield he's really dying.
1241
00:58:17,193 --> 00:58:21,530
And he barely opens his eyes
for more than a few seconds.
1242
00:58:21,531 --> 00:58:22,965
And his breath was coming
1243
00:58:22,966 --> 00:58:27,269
in rapid fire bursts
like machine gun.
1244
00:58:27,270 --> 00:58:29,805
A tum from the silence
in the window and look at him
1245
00:58:29,806 --> 00:58:33,275
and an iris appears
beneath one-half lifted eyelid
1246
00:58:33,276 --> 00:58:36,512
and its strength bores
right through me.
1247
00:58:36,513 --> 00:58:38,080
And I turned away
almost embarrassed
1248
00:58:38,081 --> 00:58:42,084
having as much life in me
as he has.
1249
00:58:42,085 --> 00:58:42,451
- MAN: Stand up and fight.
- MAN: Okay.
1250
00:58:42,452 --> 00:58:45,058
- MAN: Stand up and fight.
- MAN: Okay.
1251
00:58:47,690 --> 00:58:50,526
WOMAN: It was Thanksgiving
and I met David
1252
00:58:50,527 --> 00:58:53,228
in Peter's room
at the hospital.
1253
00:58:53,229 --> 00:58:57,733
Ethyl Eichelberger was there
and Peter was in a coma.
1254
00:58:57,734 --> 00:58:59,301
I mean, he really
wasn't responsive
1255
00:58:59,302 --> 00:59:01,009
in any kind ox' way.
1256
00:59:03,907 --> 00:59:08,143
We're all sitting there
and Ethyl says very quietly,
1257
00:59:08,144 --> 00:59:10,312
โHe's not breathing anymore.
1258
00:59:10,313 --> 00:59:12,589
His chest
isn't going up and down.โ
1259
00:59:16,219 --> 00:59:18,053
We called the nurse in.
1260
00:59:18,054 --> 00:59:20,796
And the nurse said,
โYes, he had passed.โ
1261
00:59:26,963 --> 00:59:28,697
And then David says,
1262
00:59:28,698 --> 00:59:30,575
โCould you all
leave me alone with him?โ
1263
00:59:36,573 --> 00:59:38,340
DAVID: If I could attach
our blood vessels
1264
00:59:38,341 --> 00:59:41,743
so that we would become
each other, I would.
1265
00:59:41,744 --> 00:59:44,179
If! could attach
our blood vessels
1266
00:59:44,180 --> 00:59:46,348
in order to anchor you
to the Earth
1267
00:59:46,349 --> 00:59:49,990
to this present time to me,
I would.
1268
00:59:51,754 --> 00:59:55,157
R makes me weep
to feel the history m' you,
1269
00:59:55,158 --> 00:59:57,893
ox' your flesh beneath my hands
1270
00:59:57,894 --> 01:00:00,170
in a time of so much loss.
1271
01:00:02,131 --> 01:00:05,367
R makes me weep
all these moments
1272
01:00:05,368 --> 01:00:09,145
will be lost in time
like tears in rain.
1273
01:00:12,642 --> 01:00:14,815
Smell the flowers
while you can.
1274
01:00:16,779 --> 01:00:20,816
TOM". When Peter died,
I went out to dinner with Anita
1275
01:00:20,817 --> 01:00:24,152
and this nurse,
he was talking about,
1276
01:00:24,153 --> 01:00:26,154
sometimes you could tell
somebody was infected
1277
01:00:26,155 --> 01:00:28,090
because they'd get
a String ox' Pearls
1278
01:00:28,091 --> 01:00:32,761
along your neck which was--
glands would smell up.
1279
01:00:32,762 --> 01:00:34,997
S0 while I'm sitting there,
1280
01:00:34,998 --> 01:00:37,099
running the fingers down
my neck and sure enough
1281
01:00:37,100 --> 01:00:39,808
I have a String ox' Pearls,
swollen glands.
1282
01:00:41,404 --> 01:00:44,306
I decided to get tested.
1283
01:00:44,307 --> 01:00:46,775
R came back positive.
1284
01:00:46,776 --> 01:00:49,344
t had pretty good T cell
at that point.
1285
01:00:49,345 --> 01:00:51,713
I wasn't sick or anything.
1286
01:00:51,714 --> 01:00:54,316
David, he was very sympathetic
and very supportive
1287
01:00:54,317 --> 01:00:56,051
but then at some point,
I said,
1288
01:00:56,052 --> 01:00:57,653
โYou know,
you're being very supportive,
1289
01:00:57,654 --> 01:01:01,223
but you don't know
your status.โ
1290
01:01:01,224 --> 01:01:02,691
DR. BOB FRIEDMAN:
The first time I savv David,
1291
01:01:02,692 --> 01:01:05,427
David had markers of infection,
1292
01:01:05,428 --> 01:01:07,429
ore! candidiasis, thrush.
1293
01:01:07,430 --> 01:01:09,798
Even have a competent
immune system.
1294
01:01:09,799 --> 01:01:12,712
I don't think this came
as a shock to David.
1295
01:01:16,973 --> 01:01:19,975
DAVID: Hi, I just woke up.
1296
01:01:19,976 --> 01:01:23,712
Waking up every hour
1297
01:01:23,713 --> 01:01:25,447
for the last,
1298
01:01:25,448 --> 01:01:27,724
I don't know,
three or four hours.
1299
01:01:32,689 --> 01:01:35,090
So I was diagnosed with ARC
1300
01:01:35,091 --> 01:01:38,093
sometime in the summer.
1301
01:01:38,094 --> 01:01:41,697
Now near the end of November,
1302
01:01:41,698 --> 01:01:44,199
I'm living at Peter's house,
Peter Hujar,
1303
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,670
because t couldn't afford
the other apartment that t had.
1304
01:01:56,746 --> 01:01:58,380
TOM". David came back positive
1305
01:01:58,381 --> 01:02:01,850
but his T cells
were really ravaged.
1306
01:02:01,851 --> 01:02:03,385
David asked Dr. Friedman,
1307
01:02:03,386 --> 01:02:05,754
โDo! have so few
that! can name them?โ
1308
01:02:05,755 --> 01:02:07,255
DR. BOB: Back then,
the magic number
1309
01:02:07,256 --> 01:02:09,758
was 200 T cells.
1310
01:02:09,759 --> 01:02:13,729
If you could keep the patient
at 200 T cells or higher,
1311
01:02:13,730 --> 01:02:16,932
they'd be less
opportunistic infections.
1312
01:02:16,933 --> 01:02:19,334
TOM: He had less than a hundred
when he was tested
1313
01:02:19,335 --> 01:02:21,403
so he was already in bad shape.
1314
01:02:21,404 --> 01:02:23,071
- [phone beeps]
- GRACIE: Peter, hi.
1315
01:02:23,072 --> 01:02:25,107
R's-oh, Peter, oh, my God.
1316
01:02:25,108 --> 01:02:28,009
I'm looking at the name,
what a...
1317
01:02:28,010 --> 01:02:31,513
unbelievable
psychological slur.
1318
01:02:31,514 --> 01:02:34,049
This is Gracie calling
for David.
1319
01:02:34,050 --> 01:02:35,817
He came in to the gallery
and told us.
1320
01:02:35,818 --> 01:02:37,819
He was very quiet about it.
1321
01:02:37,820 --> 01:02:41,089
t mean, he came in and he said
that he'd just been tested
1322
01:02:41,090 --> 01:02:43,291
and he found out
that he had it.
1323
01:02:43,292 --> 01:02:45,360
R was devastating for me.
1324
01:02:45,361 --> 01:02:48,930
I mean, I felt very protective
ox' David.
1325
01:02:48,931 --> 01:02:52,100
When Keith Haring came out
about having AIDS,
1326
01:02:52,101 --> 01:02:54,970
it just seemed like
everybody had to run,
1327
01:02:54,971 --> 01:02:57,773
buy something ox' his because
he was gonna die ox' AIDS.
1328
01:02:57,774 --> 01:02:59,441
He had AIDS
and he was gonna die.
1329
01:02:59,442 --> 01:03:02,911
It was so gross
how Keith was treated
1330
01:03:02,912 --> 01:03:05,847
and how everything around him,
what that was all about,
1331
01:03:05,848 --> 01:03:08,016
and I didn't want that
for David.
1332
01:03:08,017 --> 01:03:10,285
I mean,
I knew how private David was
1333
01:03:10,286 --> 01:03:14,990
and so when he told me,
my first reaction was,
1334
01:03:14,991 --> 01:03:17,192
that we shouldn't tell anyone.
1335
01:03:17,193 --> 01:03:18,927
Which ox' course
is the wrong response
1336
01:03:18,928 --> 01:03:20,295
to have with David.
1337
01:03:20,296 --> 01:03:22,397
That's when I picked up
the phone
1338
01:03:22,398 --> 01:03:24,099
and called Barry Blinderman
and said,
1339
01:03:24,100 --> 01:03:27,202
โYou have to do this
retrospective now,
1340
01:03:27,203 --> 01:03:29,838
like, now.โ
1341
01:03:29,839 --> 01:03:32,841
[engine turbine whirring]
1342
01:03:32,842 --> 01:03:35,143
BARRY: He was right
and that this is what I do,
1343
01:03:35,144 --> 01:03:37,212
books and retrospectives
and...
1344
01:03:37,213 --> 01:03:40,015
that I was an avid fan
of his work.
1345
01:03:40,016 --> 01:03:42,951
I bought the painting,
Fuck You Faggot Fucker,
1346
01:03:42,952 --> 01:03:44,920
back in 1984.
1347
01:03:44,921 --> 01:03:47,322
There was an urgency
to do the show
1348
01:03:47,323 --> 01:03:49,524
while he was alive.
1349
01:03:49,525 --> 01:03:52,894
I wrote a grant to the NEA,
1350
01:03:52,895 --> 01:03:56,064
got the grant worth $ 15,000
1351
01:03:56,065 --> 01:04:00,268
and started working with David
planning the exhibition,
1352
01:04:00,269 --> 01:04:01,873
then the catalog.
1353
01:04:07,043 --> 01:04:09,044
t thought the phrase
โTongues ox' Flameโ
1354
01:04:09,045 --> 01:04:11,179
was very appropriate.
There's a biblical reference.
1355
01:04:11,180 --> 01:04:13,014
R's a reference to a play.
R's a reference
1356
01:04:13,015 --> 01:04:14,282
to a silent movie.
1357
01:04:14,283 --> 01:04:16,484
But mostly Tongues of Flame,
1358
01:04:16,485 --> 01:04:20,355
I'm thinking what a--
an amazing orator he was.
1359
01:04:20,356 --> 01:04:22,224
t was thinking
about the Burning Child,
1360
01:04:22,225 --> 01:04:24,192
t was thinking
about the Burning House,
1361
01:04:24,193 --> 01:04:27,429
the incendiary aspect ox' it,
the passion.
1362
01:04:27,430 --> 01:04:30,465
And it just seemed like
everything that was connected
1363
01:04:30,466 --> 01:04:33,268
with David was on fire.
1364
01:04:33,269 --> 01:04:37,038
[music]
1365
01:04:37,039 --> 01:04:38,440
DAVID: One of the things
that happened
1366
01:04:38,441 --> 01:04:40,876
after my diagnosis
is this thing
1367
01:04:40,877 --> 01:04:43,111
ox' this may be the last work
I do. So it's, like,
1368
01:04:43,112 --> 01:04:46,481
trying to focus everything
and channel it into the square,
1369
01:04:46,482 --> 01:04:48,383
into this photograph,
or into this thing
1370
01:04:48,384 --> 01:04:51,386
that it's all got to go in,
all the anger,
1371
01:04:51,387 --> 01:04:54,289
all the emotions,
all the thoughts.
1372
01:04:54,290 --> 01:04:58,026
I'm working on a series
of sex images
1373
01:04:58,027 --> 01:05:02,264
that take environments
like the sky,
1374
01:05:02,265 --> 01:05:05,367
the ocean, an airplane,
1375
01:05:05,368 --> 01:05:08,603
train movements, a forest,
1376
01:05:08,604 --> 01:05:10,572
and my superimposed,
1377
01:05:10,573 --> 01:05:15,377
a circle that has
a very explicit sex act.
1378
01:05:15,378 --> 01:05:19,014
And most of them
are homosexual acts.
1379
01:05:19,015 --> 01:05:21,996
[music]
1380
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,488
DAVID:
Outside of the sex series,
1381
01:05:26,489 --> 01:05:31,159
I placed these circular images
inside the field of painting
1382
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,662
and so for me the circles
are like cells
1383
01:05:33,663 --> 01:05:36,298
and they contain information.
1384
01:05:36,299 --> 01:05:40,201
And I see them
as microscopic views
1385
01:05:40,202 --> 01:05:43,972
so it's like looking
into the interior ox' something,
1386
01:05:43,973 --> 01:05:48,276
like looking at a spot of blood
and seeing the cells.
1387
01:05:48,277 --> 01:05:51,146
And I also see them
as telescopic view
1388
01:05:51,147 --> 01:05:53,214
so that you could be looking
through a telescope
1389
01:05:53,215 --> 01:05:56,051
and then that says something
to me about surveillance,
1390
01:05:56,052 --> 01:05:57,986
seeing something
from a distance.
1391
01:05:57,987 --> 01:06:01,089
I like the suggestions
of all those things.
1392
01:06:01,090 --> 01:06:03,458
R's about discovery.
1393
01:06:03,459 --> 01:06:05,493
And I use dreams in my work.
1394
01:06:05,494 --> 01:06:07,228
Dreams are very important
to me.
1395
01:06:07,229 --> 01:06:09,030
I usually write them down
all the time.
1396
01:06:09,031 --> 01:06:12,400
The dreams are example
oi' how the imagination
1397
01:06:12,401 --> 01:06:14,938
can bring all boundaries.
1398
01:06:16,305 --> 01:06:18,139
MAN".
His iconography is based off
1399
01:06:18,140 --> 01:06:21,343
this profound sense he had
that he could fry
1400
01:06:21,344 --> 01:06:23,745
to look at the universe.
1401
01:06:23,746 --> 01:06:26,283
Everything organic,
1402
01:06:27,650 --> 01:06:30,552
and everything manmade,
1403
01:06:30,553 --> 01:06:32,387
all the delights,
and all the horrors,
1404
01:06:32,388 --> 01:06:35,290
and trying to put them
together.
1405
01:06:35,291 --> 01:06:39,637
But every aspect of it
would be deeply personal.
1406
01:06:44,166 --> 01:06:45,600
DAVID KIEHL: When Peter died,
1407
01:06:45,601 --> 01:06:48,236
David took photographs
of the head,
1408
01:06:48,237 --> 01:06:50,238
the hands, and the feet.
1409
01:06:50,239 --> 01:06:54,009
There's a tradition
ox' taking death masks
1410
01:06:54,010 --> 01:06:55,643
ox' someone important.
1411
01:06:55,644 --> 01:06:57,479
Hands are important
because they're how
1412
01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:59,514
you physically interact
with the world.
1413
01:06:59,515 --> 01:07:02,384
And then the feet,
t think are very important.
1414
01:07:02,385 --> 01:07:04,386
And that goes back
to the Old Testament
1415
01:07:04,387 --> 01:07:06,154
and the New Testament.
1416
01:07:06,155 --> 01:07:08,289
How do you read people,
you watch their hands
1417
01:07:08,290 --> 01:07:10,525
but it's more important
you watch their feet
1418
01:07:10,526 --> 01:07:12,563
because that's what
anchoring you to the world.
1419
01:07:14,363 --> 01:07:16,331
And he find that all that
all the way through
1420
01:07:16,332 --> 01:07:18,633
classic spiritual literature.
1421
01:07:18,634 --> 01:07:21,770
That iconic letting out
ox' those images,
1422
01:07:21,771 --> 01:07:24,072
incorporating them into Peter
who's our dead
1423
01:07:24,073 --> 01:07:28,209
with that text
is really a call to arms.
1424
01:07:28,210 --> 01:07:30,378
DAVID: I was diagnosed with ARC
recently
1425
01:07:30,379 --> 01:07:32,113
and this is after
the last few years
1426
01:07:32,114 --> 01:07:34,149
of losing count of the friends
and neighbors
1427
01:07:34,150 --> 01:07:36,751
who've been dying slow, vicious,
unnecessary deaths
1428
01:07:36,752 --> 01:07:38,520
because fags, and dykes,
and junkies
1429
01:07:38,521 --> 01:07:41,389
are expendable in this country.
And at the moment,
1430
01:07:41,390 --> 01:07:44,292
at the moment
of my 37-foot tall,
1431
01:07:44,293 --> 01:07:48,763
1,172-p0und man
inside this six-foot body,
1432
01:07:48,764 --> 01:07:50,799
and all I could feel
is the pressure.
1433
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:53,401
All I can feel is the pressure
and the need for relief.
1434
01:07:53,402 --> 01:07:55,537
PAT: David? R's Pat.
1435
01:07:55,538 --> 01:07:58,073
R's been too long
and I want you to know
1436
01:07:58,074 --> 01:08:00,408
that I think of you
and I love you a lot,
1437
01:08:00,409 --> 01:08:02,377
and I hope all is well.
1438
01:08:02,378 --> 01:08:04,079
DAVID: Last night
I talked to my sister
1439
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:08,149
for the first time
in seven months I think.
1440
01:08:08,150 --> 01:08:11,097
I told her about my diagnosis
and...
1441
01:08:12,288 --> 01:08:14,622
it was rough for me anyway.
1442
01:08:14,623 --> 01:08:16,762
I thought she handled it
pretty well.
1443
01:08:18,294 --> 01:08:19,773
But then who knows.
1444
01:08:20,830 --> 01:08:22,697
I remember Pa! once say to me,
1445
01:08:22,698 --> 01:08:25,667
she will never get AIDS
or something like that because,
1446
01:08:25,668 --> 01:08:27,602
โFm not one of those people
that ran around
1447
01:08:27,603 --> 01:08:30,505
to have sex with everybody.โ
1448
01:08:30,506 --> 01:08:32,507
Then I remember
I didn't correct her.
1449
01:08:32,508 --> 01:08:35,376
[chuckles]
1450
01:08:35,377 --> 01:08:37,254
I mean, how do you begin?
1451
01:08:40,649 --> 01:08:41,783
STEVEN". Dave, are you home?
1452
01:08:41,784 --> 01:08:43,422
R's Steve calling again.
1453
01:08:44,487 --> 01:08:45,620
OKAY'
1454
01:08:45,621 --> 01:08:47,789
BYE-bye.
1455
01:08:47,790 --> 01:08:50,558
After he had AIDS,
we were fine
1456
01:08:50,559 --> 01:08:53,862
but there came that day
when t catted him on the phone
1457
01:08:53,863 --> 01:08:56,731
when I told him our Aunt Helen
was coming to visit.
1458
01:08:56,732 --> 01:08:58,733
Boy that set him oft.
1459
01:08:58,734 --> 01:09:01,236
DAVID: Look, if it comes out
whether about my girlfriend
1460
01:09:01,237 --> 01:09:02,670
or we have girlfriends,
1461
01:09:02,671 --> 01:09:04,305
I 'm gonna tell him
I 'm homosexual.
1462
01:09:04,306 --> 01:09:05,507
And if it comes up,
H! tell him
1463
01:09:05,508 --> 01:09:07,375
that t have this virus.
1464
01:09:07,376 --> 01:09:09,244
h' it goes far enough,
H! fucking confront him
1465
01:09:09,245 --> 01:09:11,546
and ask him why the fuck
they let the psychotic
1466
01:09:11,547 --> 01:09:13,748
do this damage to us
all these fucking years
1467
01:09:13,749 --> 01:09:16,217
and-and not do
a fucking thing about it,
1468
01:09:16,218 --> 01:09:18,553
and like talk about their God
and all this other shit
1469
01:09:18,554 --> 01:09:20,522
when they watched this guy
what he did to us.
1470
01:09:20,523 --> 01:09:22,857
I'm tired of living these hes
with these people
1471
01:09:22,858 --> 01:09:24,659
and I'm tired of hiding
from these people
1472
01:09:24,660 --> 01:09:26,394
because I'm afraid of who I am
1473
01:09:26,395 --> 01:09:28,496
or because I have problems
with who I am.
1474
01:09:28,497 --> 01:09:30,298
And I'm not gonna
go through it anymore.
1475
01:09:30,299 --> 01:09:31,733
STEVEN". โThis is not the place,โ
I said,
1476
01:09:31,734 --> 01:09:33,935
"if you wanna confront
Aunt Helen,
1477
01:09:33,936 --> 01:09:36,538
then go to Detroit
and confront her.
1478
01:09:36,539 --> 01:09:38,273
But you're not coming here.โ
1479
01:09:38,274 --> 01:09:40,508
He went into a rage
that frightened me.
1480
01:09:40,509 --> 01:09:42,677
DAVID: Don't insult me
by inviting me to come
1481
01:09:42,678 --> 01:09:44,445
after the relatives leave.
1482
01:09:44,446 --> 01:09:46,848
That's right.
Out ox' sight, okay?
1483
01:09:46,849 --> 01:09:49,751
Get the fuck out of our sight
until it's comfortable,
1484
01:09:49,752 --> 01:09:51,786
until we can deal with you
sitting here
1485
01:09:51,787 --> 01:09:55,924
with your homosexuality
with your AIDS.
1486
01:09:55,925 --> 01:09:57,759
Yeah, right, sorry for myself.
1487
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:00,228
I'm the one
who's fucking dying, asshole.
1488
01:10:00,229 --> 01:10:02,397
I'm the one who's got
to fucking confront things
1489
01:10:02,398 --> 01:10:04,699
before t go,
and that's what t wanna do.
1490
01:10:04,700 --> 01:10:07,202
I wanna clear the fear
out ox' my head.
1491
01:10:07,203 --> 01:10:09,604
STEVEN". R was so painful to me,
1492
01:10:09,605 --> 01:10:11,806
the way that he and t
interacted.
1493
01:10:11,807 --> 01:10:13,708
If! could do it
all over again,
1494
01:10:13,709 --> 01:10:16,311
I-I'd tried to do it
a little differently.
1495
01:10:16,312 --> 01:10:18,713
DAVID: S0, are you afraid to
tell your children I have AIDS ?
1496
01:10:18,714 --> 01:10:21,382
STEVEN". And then he starts
saying, โOh, your kids know
1497
01:10:21,383 --> 01:10:23,284
that you have a faggot
for a brother? "
1498
01:10:23,285 --> 01:10:24,919
DAVID: That's not what I said.
I said, "Are you afraid
1499
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:26,654
to tell your kids I have AIDS?โ
1500
01:10:26,655 --> 01:10:28,656
STEVEN: And I said,
โDavid, they're young.โ
1501
01:10:28,657 --> 01:10:30,892
One's three years old,
the other one's six.
1502
01:10:30,893 --> 01:10:32,961
DAVID: It's too messy for me
to be in your fucking lives,
1503
01:10:32,962 --> 01:10:34,963
so save it. Save it, Steven.
1504
01:10:34,964 --> 01:10:36,564
I don't need this from you.
1505
01:10:36,565 --> 01:10:37,899
I don't need
this kind of insult.
1506
01:10:37,900 --> 01:10:39,801
I fucking face this every day
1507
01:10:39,802 --> 01:10:42,637
and I don't need it
from โfamily?
1508
01:10:42,638 --> 01:10:44,005
You understand?
1509
01:10:44,006 --> 01:10:45,974
Well, let the conversation end,
Steve.
1510
01:10:45,975 --> 01:10:48,343
We never see each other again.
Goodbye.
1511
01:10:48,344 --> 01:10:50,278
[phone slams shut]
1512
01:10:50,279 --> 01:10:51,986
STEVEN: And then,
I never saw him again.
1513
01:10:53,616 --> 01:10:57,518
[thunder rumbles]
1514
01:10:57,519 --> 01:10:59,787
DAVID: I feel pretty crazy
recently
1515
01:10:59,788 --> 01:11:01,756
Bot ox' anxiety.
1516
01:11:01,757 --> 01:11:05,227
At some point I realize
I was just afraid ox' dying.
1517
01:11:06,662 --> 01:11:08,863
Throughout all my life
We tried to maintain
1518
01:11:08,864 --> 01:11:11,866
some kind ox' complete control
ox' myself
1519
01:11:11,867 --> 01:11:13,735
and where We come from.
1520
01:11:13,736 --> 01:11:15,503
All I see is kid hustling
1521
01:11:15,504 --> 01:11:16,938
and all the scenes
in the streets.
1522
01:11:16,939 --> 01:11:18,873
Sometimes it came close
to deem,
1523
01:11:18,874 --> 01:11:21,476
and at times
I nearly starved,
1524
01:11:21,477 --> 01:11:25,480
maybe a need more self-control,
this--the mask,
1525
01:11:25,481 --> 01:11:29,784
this enormous rage that t carry
or may carry
1526
01:11:29,785 --> 01:11:32,487
from all those experiences.
1527
01:11:32,488 --> 01:11:35,490
Like, because I fear
and lost control ox' that rage,
1528
01:11:35,491 --> 01:11:37,792
H! still
become indiscriminate
1529
01:11:37,793 --> 01:11:39,961
in terms of what it attacks.
1530
01:11:39,962 --> 01:11:43,698
But really and truly I think
I'm afield of losing my mind
1531
01:11:43,699 --> 01:11:46,801
at some point
to some degenerative disease
1532
01:11:46,802 --> 01:11:50,738
like meningitis, or seizures,
or whatever.
1533
01:11:50,739 --> 01:11:54,976
I don't wanna lose touch
with words.
1534
01:11:54,977 --> 01:11:58,646
I wanna be able to provoke
some change
1535
01:11:58,647 --> 01:12:00,915
in whatever limited fashion
1536
01:12:00,916 --> 01:12:03,351
in people, in a person.
1537
01:12:03,352 --> 01:12:04,986
And I always had this fantasy
1538
01:12:04,987 --> 01:12:07,055
that ix' I were
to ever become ill
1539
01:12:07,056 --> 01:12:10,558
and if I were to become so weak
that I couldn't leave the house
1540
01:12:10,559 --> 01:12:12,894
which is another fear for me,
1541
01:12:12,895 --> 01:12:15,763
or at least be able to tell
that if I could keep wording
1542
01:12:15,764 --> 01:12:18,066
even if it's with a pencil
held between my teeth
1543
01:12:18,067 --> 01:12:20,902
touching each key
letter for letter,
1544
01:12:20,903 --> 01:12:23,538
despite rage, despite illness,
1545
01:12:23,539 --> 01:12:26,713
despite pain,
t hope that my mind...
1546
01:12:28,377 --> 01:12:29,913
continues.
1547
01:12:31,847 --> 01:12:34,382
MARION SCEMAMA:
AIDS was revealing exactly
1548
01:12:34,383 --> 01:12:36,851
what society was about.
1549
01:12:36,852 --> 01:12:38,920
That was already there
in his work,
1550
01:12:38,921 --> 01:12:41,589
he knew already
what that world was about.
1551
01:12:41,590 --> 01:12:44,559
He knew the structure
that sustained power.
1552
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:46,961
He knew in the manipulation
that people
1553
01:12:46,962 --> 01:12:48,996
would like to live differently.
1554
01:12:48,997 --> 01:12:50,898
So the illness became a weapon
1555
01:12:50,899 --> 01:12:53,801
against politics
ox' the society.
1556
01:12:53,802 --> 01:12:55,937
DAVID: When I was diagnosed
with this virus,
1557
01:12:55,938 --> 01:12:58,072
it didn't take me long
to realize
1558
01:12:58,073 --> 01:13:01,876
I contracted a diseased
society as web'.
1559
01:13:01,877 --> 01:13:03,678
CROWD: Stand tough, stand tall,
1560
01:13:03,679 --> 01:13:05,580
it's time to march
on city hall.
1561
01:13:05,581 --> 01:13:07,582
REPORTER". Thousands
of demonstrators demand
1562
01:13:07,583 --> 01:13:09,384
that New York City
do more to help
1563
01:13:09,385 --> 01:13:11,018
those suffering from AIDS.
1564
01:13:11,019 --> 01:13:13,955
CROWD: Healthcare has arrived.
Healthcare has arrived.
1565
01:13:13,956 --> 01:13:16,691
NARRATOR: The scene
evoked memories of the '60s.
1566
01:13:16,692 --> 01:13:18,426
MAN: Civil rights or civil war'?
1567
01:13:18,427 --> 01:13:20,928
MAN: David and I
went to Act Up meetings.
1568
01:13:20,929 --> 01:13:22,597
We marched with Act Up.
1569
01:13:22,598 --> 01:13:24,432
The city is dying.
1570
01:13:24,433 --> 01:13:25,833
DAVID: In some level,
the most interesting thing
1571
01:13:25,834 --> 01:13:27,602
that they have is information
1572
01:13:27,603 --> 01:13:29,776
ox' what was happening
in the hospitals.
1573
01:13:30,939 --> 01:13:34,142
[baby crying]
1574
01:13:34,143 --> 01:13:36,577
DAVID: They were strapping
minority babies to beds
1575
01:13:36,578 --> 01:13:39,180
and giving hah' ox' them
placebos.
1576
01:13:39,181 --> 01:13:40,882
Basically,
they're stealing these babies
1577
01:13:40,883 --> 01:13:42,784
from their parents saying,
1578
01:13:42,785 --> 01:13:45,086
โThis is the only way
your baby can get treatment.
1579
01:13:45,087 --> 01:13:46,888
Sign this form,โ
1580
01:13:46,889 --> 01:13:50,958
killing half of them purposely
with placebos.
1581
01:13:50,959 --> 01:13:53,928
That atone t thought
was so outrageous.
1582
01:13:53,929 --> 01:13:55,630
And all these
information packets
1583
01:13:55,631 --> 01:13:57,732
were given to the media,
I thought,
1584
01:13:57,733 --> 01:13:59,834
โWell, Jesus,
this will change everything.โ
1585
01:13:59,835 --> 01:14:01,569
I mean, how naive I was.
1586
01:14:01,570 --> 01:14:03,671
CROWD: Forty-something dead
per day.
1587
01:14:03,672 --> 01:14:05,540
Where was the help'?
1588
01:14:05,541 --> 01:14:10,541
SINGER: J" Don't treat me
like a science toy J"
1589
01:14:10,579 --> 01:14:13,614
MAN". We went down to Washington
when Act Up demonstrated
1590
01:14:13,615 --> 01:14:16,083
at the FDA.
1591
01:14:16,084 --> 01:14:18,553
REPORTER". Hundreds
or' angry demonstrators
1592
01:14:18,554 --> 01:14:21,535
effectively shutdown
the FDA today.
1593
01:14:22,524 --> 01:14:24,158
MAN". First in his land.
1594
01:14:24,159 --> 01:14:27,163
[music]
1595
01:14:30,699 --> 01:14:32,967
Demonstrators said
the AIDS crisis and the -
1596
01:14:32,968 --> 01:14:34,869
continue to grow every day.
1597
01:14:34,870 --> 01:14:37,238
Charging that the government's
response to the AIDS disease
1598
01:14:37,239 --> 01:14:38,873
is woefully inadequate,
1599
01:14:38,874 --> 01:14:40,908
they say the demonstrations
will continue.
1600
01:14:40,909 --> 01:14:42,910
MAN: Until I die.
1601
01:14:42,911 --> 01:14:44,879
MAN".
Act Up made these tombstones
1602
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:46,981
and then laid down
like we were dying.
1603
01:14:46,982 --> 01:14:48,816
[indistinct chatter]
1604
01:14:48,817 --> 01:14:50,685
CROWD: Fight until we die.
1605
01:14:50,686 --> 01:14:52,987
MAN". Behind the barricade.
1606
01:14:52,988 --> 01:14:54,121
Behind the barricade.
1607
01:14:54,122 --> 01:14:55,823
MAN". And so they arrested us.
1608
01:14:55,824 --> 01:14:57,992
Bu! it got headlines.
1609
01:14:57,993 --> 01:15:01,262
Photographs ox' the tombstones
came up many times.
1610
01:15:01,263 --> 01:15:02,897
CROWD". One, two, three, Your.
1611
01:15:02,898 --> 01:15:04,799
Civil rights or civil war.
1612
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:06,634
MAN: David got arrested
a couple more times.
1613
01:15:06,635 --> 01:15:08,069
MAN: Civil rights or civil war.
1614
01:15:08,070 --> 01:15:09,704
DAVID: For my own taste,
I would say
1615
01:15:09,705 --> 01:15:11,272
we got a little bit
more violent,
1616
01:15:11,273 --> 01:15:13,508
expressive a little stronger.
1617
01:15:13,509 --> 01:15:16,010
That was one of the few things
that people wit! respond to.
1618
01:15:16,011 --> 01:15:18,279
And I'm waking up more and more
from daydreams
1619
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:21,716
of tipping Amazonian blowdarts
in 'infected blood'
1620
01:15:21,717 --> 01:15:23,284
and spitting them
at the exposed necklines
1621
01:15:23,285 --> 01:15:25,052
oi' certain politicians.
1622
01:15:25,053 --> 01:15:27,288
I'm not gonna be polite.
And fuck these people
1623
01:15:27,289 --> 01:15:29,290
that want me to be courageous.
1624
01:15:29,291 --> 01:15:32,226
You know, t resent that,
โOh, how great he was,
1625
01:15:32,227 --> 01:15:33,961
how courageous he was.โ
1626
01:15:33,962 --> 01:15:36,197
All the way up to the end.
1627
01:15:36,198 --> 01:15:39,509
There's no expression in that
other than silence.
1628
01:15:41,937 --> 01:15:44,739
DAVID: Somebody once said to me
that if you spit
1629
01:15:44,740 --> 01:15:48,776
a piece of gum on the sidewalk,
it's nothing,
1630
01:15:48,777 --> 01:15:51,245
but if ten people
or a hundred people,
1631
01:15:51,246 --> 01:15:53,581
or a thousand people
spit their gum
1632
01:15:53,582 --> 01:15:56,751
onto the same sidewalk
people have to deal with it,
1633
01:15:56,752 --> 01:15:59,854
they become stuck in it
when they walk {Waugh it.
1634
01:15:59,855 --> 01:16:02,657
And t see that as part
ox' a relationship
1635
01:16:02,658 --> 01:16:04,592
with art.
1636
01:16:04,593 --> 01:16:08,062
When people put themselves
on the line in their work,
1637
01:16:08,063 --> 01:16:10,965
whether it's music, writing,
photography, painting,
1638
01:16:10,966 --> 01:16:14,702
or whatever in terms of Culture
with a capital C,
1639
01:16:14,703 --> 01:16:17,805
they apply a tiny amount
ox' pressure
1640
01:16:17,806 --> 01:16:20,808
against the system ox' control
1641
01:16:20,809 --> 01:16:23,611
that would willingly jump
into fascism
1642
01:16:23,612 --> 01:16:26,881
if there wasn't enough pressure
on its throat.
1643
01:16:26,882 --> 01:16:28,349
[music]
1644
01:16:28,350 --> 01:16:30,217
[beeping]
1645
01:16:30,218 --> 01:16:33,120
DAVID: We are born
into a pre-invented existence
1646
01:16:33,121 --> 01:16:36,057
within a tribal nation
of zombies.
1647
01:16:36,058 --> 01:16:38,626
The government
has a day-to-day job,
1648
01:16:38,627 --> 01:16:41,162
maintaining an illusion
oi' a one-tribe nation.
1649
01:16:41,163 --> 01:16:43,664
And inside
of that one-tribe nation,
1650
01:16:43,665 --> 01:16:46,200
there's actually millions
of tribes.
1651
01:16:46,201 --> 01:16:49,604
Historically minorities
have always been expendable
1652
01:16:49,605 --> 01:16:50,845
in this country.
1653
01:16:52,274 --> 01:16:55,076
Historically, art was made
1654
01:16:55,077 --> 01:16:56,911
by certain classes ox' people
1655
01:16:56,912 --> 01:16:59,380
for a certain classes
ox' people.
1656
01:16:59,381 --> 01:17:02,817
What I make in my work
is a record ox' things
1657
01:17:02,818 --> 01:17:07,388
that challenges the record
that we're given daily,
1658
01:17:07,389 --> 01:17:10,825
whether it's in the newspapers,
to the television,
1659
01:17:10,826 --> 01:17:12,994
or through the politicians.
1660
01:17:12,995 --> 01:17:14,829
WOMAN: I chose to stay
and fight.
1661
01:17:14,830 --> 01:17:17,276
I chose to stay and fight.
1662
01:17:23,338 --> 01:17:25,840
DAVID:
If I were a violent person,
1663
01:17:25,841 --> 01:17:28,709
I would go
into the Nation's Capitol
1664
01:17:28,710 --> 01:17:31,779
and start annihilating
the people that I believe
1665
01:17:31,780 --> 01:17:34,949
responsible for this
pie-invented existence,
1666
01:17:34,950 --> 01:17:37,863
but the originators
are long dead.
1667
01:17:39,154 --> 01:17:40,921
The way things
are set in motion
1668
01:17:40,922 --> 01:17:42,323
in terms ox' society,
1669
01:17:42,324 --> 01:17:44,358
it's like a machine
that runs itself
1670
01:17:44,359 --> 01:17:47,895
that can't stop.
It can run by itself,
1671
01:17:47,896 --> 01:17:51,332
think by itself,
police enforce it,
1672
01:17:51,333 --> 01:17:53,334
- schools enforce it.
- [bell ringing]
1673
01:17:53,335 --> 01:17:55,670
DAVID: Government officials
enforce it.
1674
01:17:55,671 --> 01:17:59,006
Even the stupidity
ox' large populations
1675
01:17:59,007 --> 01:18:01,308
enforce it.
1676
01:18:01,309 --> 01:18:04,654
MAN". Raise all the glory
while we do it to them again.
1677
01:18:06,081 --> 01:18:10,785
[crowd chatter]
1678
01:18:10,786 --> 01:18:12,720
MAN: Cardinal O'Connor
has helped tens of thousands
1679
01:18:12,721 --> 01:18:14,355
ox' people
to the?! unnecessary deaths
1680
01:18:14,356 --> 01:18:17,391
through the denial of pertinent
safe sex information.
1681
01:18:17,392 --> 01:18:19,960
He obviously prefers coffins
to condoms.
1682
01:18:19,961 --> 01:18:22,697
- Safe sex information.
- I know why we're here today.
1683
01:18:22,698 --> 01:18:24,298
This is Jesus Christ.
1684
01:18:24,299 --> 01:18:27,134
I am in front of St. Patrick's
Cathedral on Sunday.
1685
01:18:27,135 --> 01:18:29,837
We're here reporting
on a major AIDS activist
1686
01:18:29,838 --> 01:18:32,206
and abortion rights activist
demonstration.
1687
01:18:32,207 --> 01:18:34,375
Inside, Cardinal O'Connor
1688
01:18:34,376 --> 01:18:37,044
is busy spreading his lies
and rumors
1689
01:18:37,045 --> 01:18:39,213
about the position
of lesbians and gays.
1690
01:18:39,214 --> 01:18:40,881
DAVID: They act as if--
because there's this
1691
01:18:40,882 --> 01:18:42,450
abstract flea
ox' what religion is,
1692
01:18:42,451 --> 01:18:44,218
of what God is,
1693
01:18:44,219 --> 01:18:46,087
that this man is untouchable
and he's not.
1694
01:18:46,088 --> 01:18:47,888
And this church
can be shutdown
1695
01:18:47,889 --> 01:18:49,924
the same way he shuts down
abortion clinics,
1696
01:18:49,925 --> 01:18:52,760
the same way he prevents people
getting information
1697
01:18:52,761 --> 01:18:54,995
or making personal decisions
about their life,
1698
01:18:54,996 --> 01:18:56,873
he can be shutdown.
1699
01:18:58,734 --> 01:19:00,000
ls the green light on?
1700
01:19:00,001 --> 01:19:01,435
PHIL: Green light's not on
but, uh--
1701
01:19:01,436 --> 01:19:03,204
- DAVID: Let's see this.
- PHIL: Yeah.
1702
01:19:03,205 --> 01:19:04,739
- The green light's on.
- DAVID: Yeah. S0 it's on.
1703
01:19:04,740 --> 01:19:06,373
- PHIL: It's rolling'?
- DAVID: Yeah.
1704
01:19:06,374 --> 01:19:08,976
PHIL: East Germany today
took down the Berlin Wall.
1705
01:19:08,977 --> 01:19:11,746
BARRY". Back at that time,
David had a big body ox' work
1706
01:19:11,747 --> 01:19:14,348
and it was really strong stuff
bu! his career,
1707
01:19:14,349 --> 01:19:16,317
kind of, flattened out.
1708
01:19:16,318 --> 01:19:20,087
The publicity from his
contribution to the catalogue
1709
01:19:20,088 --> 01:19:22,056
for Witnesses."
Against Our Vanishing.
1710
01:19:22,057 --> 01:19:24,158
And Artists Space
was what brought him
1711
01:19:24,159 --> 01:19:26,060
to the national stage,
1712
01:19:26,061 --> 01:19:29,263
and it wasn't for an artwork,
it was for an essay
1713
01:19:29,264 --> 01:19:31,766
that he wrote in the catalogue.
1714
01:19:31,767 --> 01:19:33,300
DAVID: I...
1715
01:19:33,301 --> 01:19:35,069
I wouldn't say derogatory,
you know,
1716
01:19:35,070 --> 01:19:36,971
I don't think
I'm-I'm being that critical.
1717
01:19:36,972 --> 01:19:39,907
NAN GOLDIN: I asked David
to write for the catalogue.
1718
01:19:39,908 --> 01:19:41,475
There aren't such
intense people
1719
01:19:41,476 --> 01:19:43,978
in the world anymore.
But he was a genius
1720
01:19:43,979 --> 01:19:47,248
which I don't use
for anyone else I can think ox'.
1721
01:19:47,249 --> 01:19:49,884
BARRY". David's essay
was talking about
1722
01:19:49,885 --> 01:19:53,988
how the imagination
was the last frontier
1723
01:19:53,989 --> 01:19:56,490
for creative freedom,
1724
01:19:56,491 --> 01:19:58,993
that in his imagination
1725
01:19:58,994 --> 01:20:01,562
he can douse Jesse Helms
with gasoline
1726
01:20:01,563 --> 01:20:05,099
and set his putrid ass on fire,
I quote,
1727
01:20:05,100 --> 01:20:09,069
or throw William Dannemeyer
off the Empire State Building
1728
01:20:09,070 --> 01:20:12,239
and made a reference
to Cardinal O'Connor,
1729
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:13,941
total enemy of the state,
1730
01:20:13,942 --> 01:20:17,945
called him that fat cannibal
in skirts
1731
01:20:17,946 --> 01:20:20,449
in the house
ox' walking swastikas.
1732
01:20:21,817 --> 01:20:25,052
Now, this didn't play well.
1733
01:20:25,053 --> 01:20:27,054
With the establishment.
1734
01:20:27,055 --> 01:20:29,390
Tonight the Manhattan Art
Exhibit about AIDS
1735
01:20:29,391 --> 01:20:31,158
is losing a lot
of federal money
1736
01:20:31,159 --> 01:20:33,494
because of what
will be shown in the exhibit.
1737
01:20:33,495 --> 01:20:35,462
The chairman of the NEA states,
1738
01:20:35,463 --> 01:20:37,598
โWe find that a large portion
of the content
1739
01:20:37,599 --> 01:20:40,334
is political rather than
artistic in nature."
1740
01:20:40,335 --> 01:20:43,003
It is the fact that I maybe
dying 0f AIDS in 1989,
1741
01:20:43,004 --> 01:20:44,438
is that not political?
1742
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:46,407
It is a fact that I don't have
health insurance
1743
01:20:46,408 --> 01:20:48,576
and I don't have access
to adequate healthcare,
1744
01:20:48,577 --> 01:20:51,946
is that not political?
1745
01:20:51,947 --> 01:20:54,949
And I, you know,
I think that says it clearly.
1746
01:20:54,950 --> 01:20:58,219
BARRY". This is Washington
and Helms was on a rampage.
1747
01:20:58,220 --> 01:21:00,321
He'd already racked up
Mapplethorpe,
1748
01:21:00,322 --> 01:21:02,523
got him to court room
to cancel their show.
1749
01:21:02,524 --> 01:21:04,458
He'd already racked up
Piss Christ.
1750
01:21:04,459 --> 01:21:06,360
I mean, this was the time
1751
01:21:06,361 --> 01:21:08,896
and they were looking
for the trifecta,
1752
01:21:08,897 --> 01:21:11,065
the third thing,
and David Wojnarowicz
1753
01:21:11,066 --> 01:21:12,499
was perfect for this.
1754
01:21:12,500 --> 01:21:15,970
This senator is unwilling
to spend one penny.
1755
01:21:15,971 --> 01:21:18,205
I'm sad to see that, um,
1756
01:21:18,206 --> 01:21:21,375
Congress might not feel
that this show
1757
01:21:21,376 --> 01:21:24,178
should be supported
by any American taxpayer.
1758
01:21:24,179 --> 01:21:27,214
Is this about homophobia
or what is it about?
1759
01:21:27,215 --> 01:21:29,016
I--I'm confused by it.
1760
01:21:29,017 --> 01:21:30,451
PHIL:
What are you thinking about?
1761
01:21:30,452 --> 01:21:32,386
Uh, no. lt's just that,
uh, you know,
1762
01:21:32,387 --> 01:21:34,655
when I'm talking to this
journalist from the "lime.
1763
01:21:34,656 --> 01:21:36,924
N0, he said that the NEA
is claiming
1764
01:21:36,925 --> 01:21:38,525
that what I said was horrible,
monstrous,
1765
01:21:38,526 --> 01:21:40,461
you know,
inflammatory, this, that.
1766
01:21:40,462 --> 01:21:42,997
And most terrible things that
they can't even repeat them.
1767
01:21:42,998 --> 01:21:45,232
And I said like, โA study done
in the art violence
1768
01:21:45,233 --> 01:21:48,135
in America found that
there was increasing numbers
1769
01:21:48,136 --> 01:21:50,271
of homosexual teenagers
that were murdered
1770
01:21:50,272 --> 01:21:51,538
or beaten up.
1771
01:21:51,539 --> 01:21:53,474
And that Dannemeyer
tried to supress
1772
01:21:53,475 --> 01:21:55,075
that pan of the study
1773
01:21:55,076 --> 01:21:57,077
because it contained
the word homosexual.
1774
01:21:57,078 --> 01:22:00,281
Therefore, William Dannemeyer
condones the murder
1775
01:22:00,282 --> 01:22:03,117
and terrorizing
or' homosexual teenagers
1776
01:22:03,118 --> 01:22:05,085
and no gesture,
I could make it
1777
01:22:05,086 --> 01:22:08,555
even approximate the violence
of what these people have done.
1778
01:22:08,556 --> 01:22:12,559
I'm not gonna sit still
and be silent about it.
1779
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:14,395
PHIL: How heroic.
1780
01:22:14,396 --> 01:22:16,171
To the barricades!
1781
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:34,081
PHIL: But what's happening now'?
1782
01:22:34,082 --> 01:22:35,416
DAVID: Uh, Susan called out
1783
01:22:35,417 --> 01:22:37,017
and it turns out that, uh,
1784
01:22:37,018 --> 01:22:38,585
the NEA approached Susan
1785
01:22:38,586 --> 01:22:40,654
and now they're doing
a pint press conference
1786
01:22:40,655 --> 01:22:43,157
issuing statements
and Susan does this -
1787
01:22:43,158 --> 01:22:46,293
liberal motherfucking stance
of here,
1788
01:22:46,294 --> 01:22:47,394
"I think there are
certain issues
1789
01:22:47,395 --> 01:22:49,163
that are not resolved here ."
1790
01:22:49,164 --> 01:22:51,031
And I said,
โWhat the fuck are you doing?โ
1791
01:22:51,032 --> 01:22:54,134
I said, "These assholes have
themselves against the wall
1792
01:22:54,135 --> 01:22:56,203
over all these issues,
over a homophobia,
1793
01:22:56,204 --> 01:22:58,072
legislative silence
of homosexuals
1794
01:22:58,073 --> 01:22:59,740
and lesbians in this country.
1795
01:22:59,741 --> 01:23:02,109
What you're doing is you're
avoiding the whole fucking thing
1796
01:23:02,110 --> 01:23:04,378
for your funding
as if you're a collaborator.
1797
01:23:04,379 --> 01:23:06,480
You and your whore
and it's indicative
1798
01:23:06,481 --> 01:23:09,717
of the whole
fucking art world.
1799
01:23:09,718 --> 01:23:12,119
PHIL: David was more skeptical
1800
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:14,088
and more negative
about the art world
1801
01:23:14,089 --> 01:23:15,756
than he was about Jesse Helms
1802
01:23:15,757 --> 01:23:17,758
because he thought
that curators of the art work!
1803
01:23:17,759 --> 01:23:21,328
hid art with queer ideas
1804
01:23:21,329 --> 01:23:25,466
and just anything that was out
of the White one-tribe nation
1805
01:23:25,467 --> 01:23:27,701
as he said was being censored
by the museum.
1806
01:23:27,702 --> 01:23:30,371
You didn't need Jesse Helms
and people like that
1807
01:23:30,372 --> 01:23:34,074
because the museums were
already doing the job for you.
1808
01:23:34,075 --> 01:23:35,486
Okay, thanks.
1809
01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:40,150
Okay-
1810
01:23:41,483 --> 01:23:42,553
Okay-
1811
01:23:46,588 --> 01:23:48,155
PHIL: What happened'?
1812
01:23:48,156 --> 01:23:50,295
She's fine.
She's, like, uh...
1813
01:23:51,726 --> 01:23:54,728
She said that she could stay
in her statement
1814
01:23:54,729 --> 01:23:58,332
that this is a failure
of the government
1815
01:23:58,333 --> 01:24:02,403
to confront homophobia
in the society,
1816
01:24:02,404 --> 01:24:05,706
the legislation
into silence of homosexuals.
1817
01:24:05,707 --> 01:24:10,344
And it's the failure to provide
safe sex information
1818
01:24:10,345 --> 01:24:11,612
people with AIDS so that-uh,
1819
01:24:11,613 --> 01:24:14,685
so they can make
informed decisions.
1820
01:24:16,284 --> 01:24:17,718
PHIL: Did she say that
to the press'?
1821
01:24:17,719 --> 01:24:19,353
This is her statement.
1822
01:24:19,354 --> 01:24:23,290
She's--and that she's gonna
thank me, uh,
1823
01:24:23,291 --> 01:24:25,059
from the bottom other heart,
1824
01:24:25,060 --> 01:24:27,506
uh, for what she's learned.
1825
01:24:33,635 --> 01:24:36,548
I feel, you know, I feel
pretty emotional about it.
1826
01:24:40,241 --> 01:24:41,652
Oh, man.
1827
01:24:43,611 --> 01:24:46,615
[music]
1828
01:24:51,386 --> 01:24:53,754
MAN: This show does contain
10 years of work
1829
01:24:53,755 --> 01:24:57,124
starting with David's
early street stencil pieces
1830
01:24:57,125 --> 01:24:59,660
to work that was
just made yesterday
1831
01:24:59,661 --> 01:25:01,295
especially for this gallery.
1832
01:25:01,296 --> 01:25:02,663
S0 without further ado,
1833
01:25:02,664 --> 01:25:04,731
I like to introduce
David Wojnarowicz.
1834
01:25:04,732 --> 01:25:07,736
[applause]
1835
01:25:11,573 --> 01:25:14,241
DAVID:
Thanks a lot for coming tonight.
1836
01:25:14,242 --> 01:25:17,411
I don't think anybody expected
a crowd into this.
1837
01:25:17,412 --> 01:25:19,346
This is kind of strange
and emotional for me
1838
01:25:19,347 --> 01:25:20,647
to be standing in a room
1839
01:25:20,648 --> 01:25:23,283
filled with artifacts
of my life.
1840
01:25:23,284 --> 01:25:25,252
Each painting, photograph,
and sculpture
1841
01:25:25,253 --> 01:25:27,754
has built into it
a particular frame of mind
1842
01:25:27,755 --> 01:25:29,289
that only I can know
1843
01:25:29,290 --> 01:25:30,757
given that I've always
felt alienated
1844
01:25:30,758 --> 01:25:33,427
in this country
we call America.
1845
01:25:33,428 --> 01:25:36,597
If I say I'm homosexual,
is that something new to you?
1846
01:25:36,598 --> 01:25:38,632
Does that make you nervous?
1847
01:25:38,633 --> 01:25:40,467
D0 you think
it would be a crime,
1848
01:25:40,468 --> 01:25:42,202
the denial of information
and only kill people
1849
01:25:42,203 --> 01:25:43,670
that you didn't feel
comfortable with?
1850
01:25:43,671 --> 01:25:45,305
Do you stop to get to know
the person
1851
01:25:45,306 --> 01:25:46,807
you sit or walk next to
in the school?
1852
01:25:46,808 --> 01:25:48,575
Do you make it comfortable
tor that person
1853
01:25:48,576 --> 01:25:51,211
to express ideas that
might change your ideas?
1854
01:25:51,212 --> 01:25:52,479
And I wake up every morning.
1855
01:25:52,480 --> 01:25:53,881
I wake up every morning
1856
01:25:53,882 --> 01:25:55,816
of this killing machine
called America.
1857
01:25:55,817 --> 01:25:58,285
And I carry this rage
like a blood-filled egg
1858
01:25:58,286 --> 01:26:01,455
as each T-cell disappears
from my body
1859
01:26:01,456 --> 01:26:03,423
is replaced by
10 pounds of pressure,
1860
01:26:03,424 --> 01:26:05,192
10 pounds of rage.
1861
01:26:05,193 --> 01:26:07,728
And t focus that rage
is not in my resistance
1862
01:26:07,729 --> 01:26:09,630
but the focus
is starting stow
1863
01:26:09,631 --> 01:26:12,232
and the egg
is starting to crack.
1864
01:26:12,233 --> 01:26:13,233
Thank you.
1865
01:26:13,234 --> 01:26:14,635
[applause]
1866
01:26:14,636 --> 01:26:16,870
P H I L:
David became the local hero
1867
01:26:16,871 --> 01:26:21,608
in a town that needed a voice
like this so badly.
1868
01:26:21,609 --> 01:26:23,477
DAVID:
When I first went out there,
1869
01:26:23,478 --> 01:26:25,679
I knew that it was like
a fairly conservative town.
1870
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:27,814
t mean, t had fantasies
ox' people with torch
1871
01:26:27,815 --> 01:26:29,453
storming the gallery.
1872
01:26:31,352 --> 01:26:32,953
And the days that followed,
1873
01:26:32,954 --> 01:26:34,388
people would come running over
to talk to me
1874
01:26:34,389 --> 01:26:36,256
when they spotted me.
1875
01:26:36,257 --> 01:26:40,260
R was an extremely emotional
positive response.
1876
01:26:40,261 --> 01:26:41,662
BARRY".
I should probably tell you
1877
01:26:41,663 --> 01:26:43,964
how the controversy happened
1878
01:26:43,965 --> 01:26:47,534
about a month into the show.
1879
01:26:47,535 --> 01:26:49,937
There was one page in the book.
โwas a black and while,
1880
01:26:49,938 --> 01:26:54,775
homage to Jean Genet
who is one of David's heroes.
1881
01:26:54,776 --> 01:26:56,677
I didn't know it was in color.
1882
01:26:56,678 --> 01:26:58,278
He just gave us the black
and white
1883
01:26:58,279 --> 01:27:00,847
when we put it in the book.
1884
01:27:00,848 --> 01:27:04,418
Jean Genet has a plate over his
head that looks like a halo.
1885
01:27:04,419 --> 01:27:06,820
There's angels with Tommy Guns,
1886
01:27:06,821 --> 01:27:08,855
and in the right-hand comer,
1887
01:27:08,856 --> 01:27:11,959
there's a picture
of Jesus Christ
1888
01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:14,338
with a hypodermic on his arm.
1889
01:27:16,364 --> 01:27:18,232
It didn't make
no never mind to me,
1890
01:27:18,233 --> 01:27:21,401
but one of the people
that got ahotd of the book
1891
01:27:21,402 --> 01:27:22,636
was Dana Rohrabacher,
1892
01:27:22,637 --> 01:27:23,770
the right wing politician
1893
01:27:23,771 --> 01:27:26,615
from Orange County, California.
1894
01:27:31,980 --> 01:27:36,450
Rohrabacher put together
a screed
1895
01:27:36,451 --> 01:27:40,020
with a Xerox image of Christ
with injectable
1896
01:27:40,021 --> 01:27:41,822
talking about,
1897
01:27:41,823 --> 01:27:44,791
โYou know what your NEA money
is going for,
1898
01:27:44,792 --> 01:27:47,394
15,000 wen! to a show
1899
01:27:47,395 --> 01:27:51,565
that has anal
and oral homosexual sex,
1900
01:27:51,566 --> 01:27:52,866
it's like a circus.
1901
01:27:52,867 --> 01:27:55,435
This exhibition,
Tongues of Flame
1902
01:27:55,436 --> 01:27:59,439
is an orgy
of degenerate depravity. "
1903
01:27:59,440 --> 01:28:02,444
[music]
1904
01:28:14,289 --> 01:28:17,057
BARRY: Then I started getting
letters and threats
1905
01:28:17,058 --> 01:28:20,360
from people
to the university saying,
1906
01:28:20,361 --> 01:28:21,928
โWe hear you have
this exhibition
1907
01:28:21,929 --> 01:28:25,499
that is morally unacceptable.โ
1908
01:28:25,500 --> 01:28:27,571
People would come to the show.
1909
01:28:30,371 --> 01:28:32,806
And Yd end up
having contest with them
1910
01:28:32,807 --> 01:28:34,474
about who can quote
me Bible better,
1911
01:28:34,475 --> 01:28:36,310
me or them.
1912
01:28:36,311 --> 01:28:37,711
I'm frying to explain to them
1913
01:28:37,712 --> 01:28:39,479
that Jesus was
the man of sorrows
1914
01:28:39,480 --> 01:28:41,782
and he was here to cleanse us
of our sins.
1915
01:28:41,783 --> 01:28:44,985
And if that meant
taking on the pain ox' a junky,
1916
01:28:44,986 --> 01:28:47,330
then that's what Christ
would have to do.
1917
01:28:49,324 --> 01:28:51,326
[music]
1918
01:28:55,096 --> 01:28:56,730
BARRY". And a}! of a sudden,
1919
01:28:56,731 --> 01:28:59,966
I get a copy
ox' a Mo-page pamphlet
1920
01:28:59,967 --> 01:29:03,804
that has excerpts
ox' David's greatest hit
1921
01:29:03,805 --> 01:29:05,405
from Donald Willdmon
1922
01:29:05,406 --> 01:29:09,343
and the American Family
Association.
1923
01:29:09,344 --> 01:29:13,480
Donald Wildmon got Pepsi
to stop using Madonna
1924
01:29:13,481 --> 01:29:16,917
as a spokesperson because
ox' cones that she was wearing
1925
01:29:16,918 --> 01:29:20,020
and she was being
anti-religious
1926
01:29:20,021 --> 01:29:21,555
and it would only -
have been sent
1927
01:29:21,556 --> 01:29:23,490
thousands ox' church-goers
1928
01:29:23,491 --> 01:29:25,992
and any senator or congressman
1929
01:29:25,993 --> 01:29:28,695
who hadn't gotten it
from Rohrabacher.
1930
01:29:28,696 --> 01:29:31,865
I sent that to David
and I said,
1931
01:29:31,866 --> 01:29:33,433
"Look at this."
1932
01:29:33,434 --> 01:29:36,813
And that's when the shit -
1933
01:29:38,706 --> 01:29:41,508
[music]
1934
01:29:41,509 --> 01:29:43,543
TERRY GROSS". Coming up,
Wojnarowicz explains
1935
01:29:43,544 --> 01:29:45,912
why he's suing a group
that's trying to cut off
1936
01:29:45,913 --> 01:29:47,748
government funding
of the arts.
1937
01:29:47,749 --> 01:29:50,083
DAVID: Donald Wildmon went
through a catalogue,
1938
01:29:50,084 --> 01:29:51,885
went through it
with a pa?! ox' scissors.
1939
01:29:51,886 --> 01:29:54,388
He searched out
what he perceived to be
1940
01:29:54,389 --> 01:29:56,690
tiny details oi' paintings
or photographs
1941
01:29:56,691 --> 01:29:59,593
that involved in the portrayal
ox' sexual activity.
1942
01:29:59,594 --> 01:30:03,096
Sometimes, using less than Mo
percent ox' a single painting,
1943
01:30:03,097 --> 01:30:07,401
it represented these mutilated
fragments as my work.
1944
01:30:07,402 --> 01:30:10,404
TERRY". This week, Wojnarowicz
took Wildmon to court
1945
01:30:10,405 --> 01:30:12,105
for violating his copyright
1946
01:30:12,106 --> 01:30:15,609
and distorting his work
by taking it out oi' context.
1947
01:30:15,610 --> 01:30:20,610
WENDY OLSOFF: What I remember
was the whole courtroom
1948
01:30:20,615 --> 01:30:23,717
completely full of artists
and friends of David,
1949
01:30:23,718 --> 01:30:25,752
and Reverend Wiidmon
sitting there
1950
01:30:25,753 --> 01:30:26,920
like he was in hell,
like in his mind
1951
01:30:26,921 --> 01:30:29,890
in the most awful place
1952
01:30:29,891 --> 01:30:31,925
that the Lord
could have possibly put him
1953
01:30:31,926 --> 01:30:34,628
through as full of sinners
and Sodomites
1954
01:30:34,629 --> 01:30:36,663
and blasphemers all around him.
1955
01:30:36,664 --> 01:30:38,165
WOMAN:
And people dressed in black.
1956
01:30:38,166 --> 01:30:39,166
WEN DY: And everyone
was dressed in black
1957
01:30:39,167 --> 01:30:40,801
and he looked tortured.
1958
01:30:40,802 --> 01:30:43,806
[music]
1959
01:30:55,116 --> 01:30:58,485
FRAN: This is something
that I argued with David about
1960
01:30:58,486 --> 01:31:00,821
numerous times.
And David was sick.
1961
01:31:00,822 --> 01:31:04,491
I said to him, โYou know, you
don't have this time to waste.
1962
01:31:04,492 --> 01:31:06,460
You're not gonna change
the?! minds.
1963
01:31:06,461 --> 01:31:08,161
They don't have minds.
1964
01:31:08,162 --> 01:31:10,597
The so-called fleas
ox' these people like Wildmon,
1965
01:31:10,598 --> 01:31:12,098
they're not ideas.
1966
01:31:12,099 --> 01:31:14,701
They are aspects ox' bigotry.
1967
01:31:14,702 --> 01:31:16,203
There are always people
like this.
1968
01:31:16,204 --> 01:31:18,138
Sometimes they're more powerful
than others.โ
1969
01:31:18,139 --> 01:31:21,241
That was a moment of power
for those kind of -
1970
01:31:21,242 --> 01:31:23,944
and those kind ox' people.
We're in one now, again.
1971
01:31:23,945 --> 01:31:25,979
But in between,
they lost power.
1972
01:31:25,980 --> 01:31:29,783
And in the end, they never have
the power ox' an artist.
1973
01:31:29,784 --> 01:31:31,952
David Wojnarowicz
is more valuable
1974
01:31:31,953 --> 01:31:34,054
than every one of these
preachers that ever lived
1975
01:31:34,055 --> 01:31:38,725
as a person and as what
he put into the world.
1976
01:31:38,726 --> 01:31:41,495
WEN DY: David was being casted
as that angry young man
1977
01:31:41,496 --> 01:31:43,797
who was just screaming
all the time.
1978
01:31:43,798 --> 01:31:47,267
And people had told him
that he was not a good painter.
1979
01:31:47,268 --> 01:31:50,477
[music]
1980
01:31:52,807 --> 01:31:54,641
WENDY:
So, he was challenging himself
1981
01:31:54,642 --> 01:31:58,211
to make beautiful paintings
of flowers.
1982
01:31:58,212 --> 01:32:01,047
But within that, of course,
he put his writing.
1983
01:32:01,048 --> 01:32:06,048
And he did it in a way
that melded with the pictures.
1984
01:32:06,053 --> 01:32:08,088
Bu! as he read the works,
1985
01:32:08,089 --> 01:32:09,723
he realized
he was telling stories
1986
01:32:09,724 --> 01:32:12,926
ox' death and politics.
1987
01:32:12,927 --> 01:32:16,272
I mean, it's just really sad,
beautiful show.
1988
01:32:18,299 --> 01:32:21,001
DAVID: I wonder what this
little bug does in the world,
1989
01:32:21,002 --> 01:32:22,948
what his job is.
1990
01:32:25,106 --> 01:32:28,208
And if this little bug dies,
1991
01:32:28,209 --> 01:32:30,110
if the world feels it,
1992
01:32:30,111 --> 01:32:31,878
I mean,
does the Earth feel it'?
1993
01:32:31,879 --> 01:32:35,315
Does the world get a little
lighter in the rotation?
1994
01:32:35,316 --> 01:32:37,159
MAN: There's another one here.
1995
01:32:38,786 --> 01:32:41,855
DAVID:
S0, you think they're married?
1996
01:32:41,856 --> 01:32:44,962
Or are they homosexuals
on vacation'?
1997
01:32:46,060 --> 01:32:47,694
[music]
1998
01:32:47,695 --> 01:32:50,764
MARION:
David was HI V-positive in '88.
1999
01:32:50,765 --> 01:32:53,800
I went to New York a lot,
a lot of time
2000
01:32:53,801 --> 01:32:56,269
to work with him until 1991.
2001
01:32:56,270 --> 01:33:00,206
I mean, for me, he wasn't sick.
2002
01:33:00,207 --> 01:33:04,144
You couldn't see on his face,
on his body he was sick.
2003
01:33:04,145 --> 01:33:06,313
Until the last trip with him,
2004
01:33:06,314 --> 01:33:11,217
there's one moment where I felt
this virus took his mind.
2005
01:33:11,218 --> 01:33:13,220
[engine revving]
2006
01:33:15,256 --> 01:33:19,726
MARION: May 1991, we did
this trip in the Southwest.
2007
01:33:19,727 --> 01:33:23,597
[engine revving]
2008
01:33:23,598 --> 01:33:25,899
MARION:
We were in this valley driving
2009
01:33:25,900 --> 01:33:28,068
and I said to David,
โLet's stop here.
2010
01:33:28,069 --> 01:33:31,338
I would like to take photos.โ
2011
01:33:31,339 --> 01:33:34,074
David said, "Look,
I'm not really feeling good.
2012
01:33:34,075 --> 01:33:35,909
I stay in the car. Go on.
2013
01:33:35,910 --> 01:33:37,744
I just want to stay here.โ
2014
01:33:37,745 --> 01:33:38,815
[car door slams]
2015
01:33:41,749 --> 01:33:44,628
MARION: I don't know.
Maybe I left half hour.
2016
01:33:47,321 --> 01:33:49,255
Then I came back to the car
2017
01:33:49,256 --> 01:33:53,927
and David was laying down
with the seat down.
2018
01:33:53,928 --> 01:33:55,929
He was, like...
2019
01:33:55,930 --> 01:33:59,332
white, completely white.
2020
01:33:59,333 --> 01:34:02,002
1 said, "David."
And he didn't answer to me.
2021
01:34:02,003 --> 01:34:03,269
He wasn't sleeping.
2022
01:34:03,270 --> 01:34:05,138
His eyes were open.
2023
01:34:05,139 --> 01:34:08,375
And then he looked at me
2024
01:34:08,376 --> 01:34:11,144
and he wasn't there.
2025
01:34:11,145 --> 01:34:14,347
He was somewhere.
I don't know where.
2026
01:34:14,348 --> 01:34:16,349
t started getting scared.
2027
01:34:16,350 --> 01:34:21,221
I touched his face saying,
"David, David, David, David."
2028
01:34:21,222 --> 01:34:24,290
And then he came back slowly
to consciousness
2029
01:34:24,291 --> 01:34:27,360
and then he started laughing
like nothing happened,
2030
01:34:27,361 --> 01:34:32,198
like, he wasn't aware,
like, he has been here.
2031
01:34:32,199 --> 01:34:35,702
That's the moment
I felt that, uh,
2032
01:34:35,703 --> 01:34:38,912
something was shifting
in his mind.
2033
01:34:43,377 --> 01:34:46,079
DAVID: Actually
I blanked and I,
2034
01:34:46,080 --> 01:34:48,915
you know,
my memory seems to come and go.
2035
01:34:48,916 --> 01:34:51,418
H forget so many things,
uh, these days
2036
01:34:51,419 --> 01:34:53,420
where it just seems
huge blocks ox' time
2037
01:34:53,421 --> 01:34:55,188
are suddenly gone and then--
2038
01:34:55,189 --> 01:34:57,396
- MARION: David.
- DAVID: --they come back.
2039
01:35:00,194 --> 01:35:03,763
MARION: The same trip David
took his camera and he said,
2040
01:35:03,764 --> 01:35:06,166
โI would like you
to take a photo ox' me,
2041
01:35:06,167 --> 01:35:10,203
like, if I was buried.โ
2042
01:35:10,204 --> 01:35:14,340
So, we silently start digging
2043
01:35:14,341 --> 01:35:17,788
and I cover him with sand
and earth.
2044
01:35:22,450 --> 01:35:26,352
I took different photos.
I took photos from behind.
2045
01:35:26,353 --> 01:35:28,888
R was very strong,
very strong.
2046
01:35:28,889 --> 01:35:31,893
[music]
2047
01:35:41,368 --> 01:35:44,871
MARION: And that was the fast
trip we did together.
2048
01:35:44,872 --> 01:35:46,406
We never met again.
2049
01:35:46,407 --> 01:35:49,743
We spoke over the phone,
but we never met again.
2050
01:35:49,744 --> 01:35:52,748
[music]
2051
01:35:59,253 --> 01:36:02,989
TOM". I guess it was about
September ox' '91.
2052
01:36:02,990 --> 01:36:05,125
He catted me
in the middle ox' the night,
2053
01:36:05,126 --> 01:36:07,227
probably around 2:00
in the morning.
2054
01:36:07,228 --> 01:36:10,230
He said that he had a fever
and he was shaking.
2055
01:36:10,231 --> 01:36:12,132
And so, I came over.
2056
01:36:12,133 --> 01:36:13,500
I put him under a quilt
2057
01:36:13,501 --> 01:36:15,535
and he was just
really shivering,
2058
01:36:15,536 --> 01:36:17,137
like, he couldn't stop.
2059
01:36:17,138 --> 01:36:18,471
And that was
the beginning ox' it.
2060
01:36:18,472 --> 01:36:21,007
That was the start of it.
2061
01:36:21,008 --> 01:36:23,309
From then on,
things started to slowly
2062
01:36:23,310 --> 01:36:25,311
but surely go downhill.
2063
01:36:25,312 --> 01:36:28,081
He was hospitalized
for eight to ten days.
2064
01:36:28,082 --> 01:36:31,317
They did tests,
but then he went home.
2065
01:36:31,318 --> 01:36:32,919
And literaliy, from then on,
2066
01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:35,421
he was never really much
out of bed.
2067
01:36:35,422 --> 01:36:37,090
WOMAN: Hf, David -
2068
01:36:37,091 --> 01:36:40,326
I have a friend
who's on the board of directors
2069
01:36:40,327 --> 01:36:42,195
for The Museum of Modem Art.
2070
01:36:42,196 --> 01:36:44,831
He's interested in getting
Peter into the museum.
2071
01:36:44,832 --> 01:36:46,366
Call them
so they can talk to you, okay?
2072
01:36:46,367 --> 01:36:48,501
Bye.
2073
01:36:48,502 --> 01:36:51,506
[music]
2074
01:37:03,217 --> 01:37:05,952
MAN: When U2 did a concert
out at the Meadowlands
2075
01:37:05,953 --> 01:37:08,822
in New Jersey,
they sent a limousine for us.
2076
01:37:08,823 --> 01:37:11,524
And before the concert,
we met with them.
2077
01:37:11,525 --> 01:37:13,493
Bono wanted to know
it we wanted to pray with them.
2078
01:37:13,494 --> 01:37:15,161
We said, โNo.
t think we'll pass on that.
2079
01:37:15,162 --> 01:37:16,470
Thank you .โ
2080
01:37:19,433 --> 01:37:21,034
Bu! it was just so special.
2081
01:37:21,035 --> 01:37:22,335
I mean, he was thrilled.
2082
01:37:22,336 --> 01:37:24,971
He was really
really thrilled.
2083
01:37:24,972 --> 01:37:26,472
NIKKI:
Hi, David. It's Nikki.
2084
01:37:26,473 --> 01:37:28,608
- Says that you went back
in the hospital.
2085
01:37:28,609 --> 01:37:30,310
So, I hope you're okay.
2086
01:37:30,311 --> 01:37:32,145
DR. BOB". He was in
and out of Cabrini
2087
01:37:32,146 --> 01:37:33,479
a number of times.
2088
01:37:33,480 --> 01:37:35,148
And after one ox' them,
he said,
2089
01:37:35,149 --> 01:37:38,184
"I 'm never going back again."
2090
01:37:38,185 --> 01:37:40,520
Homecare was established
in that loft
2091
01:37:40,521 --> 01:37:43,156
of the movie theater for him.
2092
01:37:43,157 --> 01:37:45,158
That became a hospital room.
2093
01:37:45,159 --> 01:37:47,594
And most patients
didn't have that at that time.
2094
01:37:47,595 --> 01:37:49,596
David was one
ox' the fist people
2095
01:37:49,597 --> 01:37:51,598
to have that level of homecare.
2096
01:37:51,599 --> 01:37:54,567
And probably that was the force
ox' his personality
2097
01:37:54,568 --> 01:37:57,437
and Tom's
organizational skills.
2098
01:37:57,438 --> 01:37:59,873
If not for Tom,
that wouldn't have happened.
2099
01:37:59,874 --> 01:38:01,107
[beeping sound]
2100
01:38:01,108 --> 01:38:04,277
PAT WOJNAROW K31:
David? David?
2101
01:38:04,278 --> 01:38:05,879
Hello?
2102
01:38:05,880 --> 01:38:07,413
R's Pat.
2103
01:38:07,414 --> 01:38:10,350
I just want to let you know,
I talked to Tom
2104
01:38:10,351 --> 01:38:12,518
and I told him when
I 'm coming in.
2105
01:38:12,519 --> 01:38:16,256
I'm worried about you.
I hope...
2106
01:38:16,257 --> 01:38:18,424
t just hope that
you have someone around you
2107
01:38:18,425 --> 01:38:22,362
and, uh, well, H! talk to you
tomorrow, okay?
2108
01:38:22,363 --> 01:38:25,298
Take care. Bye-bye.
2109
01:38:25,299 --> 01:38:27,567
JUDY GLANTZMAN:
His decline was speeding up.
2110
01:38:27,568 --> 01:38:29,302
Dementia was setting in.
2111
01:38:29,303 --> 01:38:31,037
R was in and out.
2112
01:38:31,038 --> 01:38:32,538
R was getting
more and more difficult
2113
01:38:32,539 --> 01:38:34,485
and he was more and more
tired.
2114
01:38:37,311 --> 01:38:39,245
Things were happening
for David.
2115
01:38:39,246 --> 01:38:41,547
And you could tell David,
MOMA had just bought Fire
2116
01:38:41,548 --> 01:38:42,682
and he was just kind ox' like,
2117
01:38:42,683 --> 01:38:45,451
"That's wonderful. "
2118
01:38:45,452 --> 01:38:47,620
And you could tell him
five minutes later
2119
01:38:47,621 --> 01:38:49,956
and he would not remember.
R was like Groundhog Day,
2120
01:38:49,957 --> 01:38:51,591
you could just absolutely
tell him the same thing over.
2121
01:38:51,592 --> 01:38:53,960
And he had absolute happiness.
2122
01:38:53,961 --> 01:38:55,695
[David humming]
2123
01:38:55,696 --> 01:38:58,398
JUDY". R was a very beautiful
wide-eyed David.
2124
01:38:58,399 --> 01:38:59,999
R wasn't like it wasn't him.
2125
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:01,301
But he was joyous.
2126
01:39:01,302 --> 01:39:03,503
[David humming]
2127
01:39:03,504 --> 01:39:05,538
TOM". Dr. Bob said,
โAreal person comes out
2128
01:39:05,539 --> 01:39:07,340
when they get into dementia.
2129
01:39:07,341 --> 01:39:09,242
h' they're nasty at core,
they'll be nasty.โ
2130
01:39:09,243 --> 01:39:13,179
But David was as sweet
as he could be.
2131
01:39:13,180 --> 01:39:15,281
R was heartbreaking for me.
2132
01:39:15,282 --> 01:39:17,250
He didn't think anybody
would stick around
2133
01:39:17,251 --> 01:39:18,952
that he got sick
or he was dying.
2134
01:39:18,953 --> 01:39:21,020
He was very much afraid
of that.
2135
01:39:21,021 --> 01:39:24,157
And I think as a result ox' how
badly he was treated as a kid,
2136
01:39:24,158 --> 01:39:26,359
you know, there was
a tremendous sadness and fear
2137
01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:28,094
for me worrying about him
2138
01:39:28,095 --> 01:39:31,264
and knowing he was just
getting worse and worse.
2139
01:39:31,265 --> 01:39:33,433
Bu! at the same time,
I felt grateful
2140
01:39:33,434 --> 01:39:38,371
that! could be therefor him.
2141
01:39:38,372 --> 01:39:40,473
DAVID: Looking out the windows,
I can place myself
2142
01:39:40,474 --> 01:39:42,642
somewhere out in that sky,
2143
01:39:42,643 --> 01:39:44,344
lie down in that texture
2144
01:39:44,345 --> 01:39:48,448
and dream ox' years
and years ox' sleep.
2145
01:39:48,449 --> 01:39:51,150
And L-and I talk.
2146
01:39:51,151 --> 01:39:52,986
And I talk inside
my head m' change
2147
01:39:52,987 --> 01:39:55,399
and of peace for this body
beside me.
2148
01:39:59,626 --> 01:40:02,129
Smell the flowers
while you can.
2149
01:40:06,533 --> 01:40:10,336
TOM: July 22nd,
he died at the apartment.
2150
01:40:10,337 --> 01:40:13,306
And there were like
12 of us mere,
2151
01:40:13,307 --> 01:40:16,175
all oi' his friends,
his sister.
2152
01:40:16,176 --> 01:40:19,412
WOMAN: The nurse said to Tom,
"I think he's gone."
2153
01:40:19,413 --> 01:40:22,181
And, um...
2154
01:40:22,182 --> 01:40:24,650
that was it.
2155
01:40:24,651 --> 01:40:28,221
[music]
2156
01:40:28,222 --> 01:40:31,324
DR. BOB". R's no one thing
ma! look David's life,
2157
01:40:31,325 --> 01:40:32,792
it was the burden or' carrying
2158
01:40:32,793 --> 01:40:35,762
alt those illnesses
in that one body
2159
01:40:35,763 --> 01:40:38,698
that was just too much
tor one body to bear.
2160
01:40:38,699 --> 01:40:41,703
[music]
2161
01:40:45,672 --> 01:40:47,440
TOM". There were a lot ox' tears
during that time.
2162
01:40:47,441 --> 01:40:49,409
There were a lot of tears then.
2163
01:40:49,410 --> 01:40:52,078
But I've came a great deal
of distance now, of course.
2164
01:40:52,079 --> 01:40:54,514
And you know, in some ways,
it's even hard to remember him
2165
01:40:54,515 --> 01:40:56,516
which I don't like.
2166
01:40:56,517 --> 01:40:59,285
R's what time does to you.
2167
01:40:59,286 --> 01:41:00,720
But he's always here.
2168
01:41:00,721 --> 01:41:02,355
You know, he's always here
no matter what.
2169
01:41:02,356 --> 01:41:04,461
I know he's here.
2170
01:41:07,361 --> 01:41:11,264
[music]
2171
01:41:11,265 --> 01:41:14,269
[indistinct chatter]
2172
01:41:17,404 --> 01:41:20,408
[music]
2173
01:41:42,296 --> 01:41:45,565
Oh, my God. Here we are.
2174
01:41:45,566 --> 01:41:49,235
I said I'm not going to cry
and I'm already tearing up.
2175
01:41:49,236 --> 01:41:51,682
It has been so long coming -
2176
01:41:55,576 --> 01:41:57,078
Here it is.
2177
01:41:59,746 --> 01:42:01,447
R's a time overwhelming,
isn't it?
2178
01:42:01,448 --> 01:42:02,756
Wow.
2179
01:42:04,485 --> 01:42:06,686
Look at all of this.
2180
01:42:06,687 --> 01:42:08,488
TOM: All the Peter Hujar
dreaming -
2181
01:42:08,489 --> 01:42:10,323
- ANITA RAUFFENBART: Yeah.
- TOM: Peter was quite
2182
01:42:10,324 --> 01:42:12,859
an extraordinary character
and they were so connected.
2183
01:42:12,860 --> 01:42:14,127
Yeah.
2184
01:42:14,128 --> 01:42:15,428
TOM: Anita, there's your monkey.
2185
01:42:15,429 --> 01:42:16,596
WENDY:
There's is your monkey, sweetie.
2186
01:42:16,597 --> 01:42:18,664
ANITA: Oh. Yes, it is.
[laughs]
2187
01:42:18,665 --> 01:42:20,533
TOM: David painted it for Peter.
2188
01:42:20,534 --> 01:42:22,468
And it was over his bed
while he was sick.
2189
01:42:22,469 --> 01:42:23,803
- WENDY: Yes.
- TOM:And when he died,
2190
01:42:23,804 --> 01:42:25,505
they--they gave it to Anita.
2191
01:42:25,506 --> 01:42:27,473
- Kept it for 20 years.
- TOM: Yeah.
2192
01:42:27,474 --> 01:42:30,776
ANITA: And I'm so sorry.
I needed to sell it. [laughs]
2193
01:42:30,777 --> 01:42:33,312
If I could but it back
from that woman, I would.
2194
01:42:33,313 --> 01:42:36,149
Peter would always say
that the monkey was carrying
2195
01:42:36,150 --> 01:42:38,351
the weight of the world
on his shoulders
2196
01:42:38,352 --> 01:42:41,387
the way David did it.
2197
01:42:41,388 --> 01:42:43,189
TOM: This has always
been a favorite.
2198
01:42:43,190 --> 01:42:44,423
When I first saw it,
2199
01:42:44,424 --> 01:42:46,626
it really kind of
moved me a lot.
2200
01:42:46,627 --> 01:42:49,195
At that point,
David was not feeling very well
2201
01:42:49,196 --> 01:42:52,632
and ljust kept thinking
of extinction and Wojnarowicz.
2202
01:42:52,633 --> 01:42:54,634
He's so clever.
He really was.
2203
01:42:54,635 --> 01:42:57,809
He had such a great
childish imagination.
2204
01:43:00,807 --> 01:43:03,910
DAVID: Imagination is the key
to breaking through
2205
01:43:03,911 --> 01:43:05,912
the borders of countries.
2206
01:43:05,913 --> 01:43:10,583
We can break through existing
structures ox' government.
2207
01:43:10,584 --> 01:43:14,353
The work that anybody
does as an artist,
2208
01:43:14,354 --> 01:43:16,856
you know,
it doesn't reflect resistance
2209
01:43:16,857 --> 01:43:18,591
then they're -
2210
01:43:18,592 --> 01:43:22,228
a system of control
become more perfect.
2211
01:43:22,229 --> 01:43:25,231
MAN". We rise to greet the state
2212
01:43:25,232 --> 01:43:27,667
to confront the state.
2213
01:43:27,668 --> 01:43:27,700
SINGER: I- โช
2214
01:43:27,701 --> 01:43:32,309
SINGER: I- โช
2215
01:43:34,741 --> 01:43:38,978
And you thought
I was just no strength J"
2216
01:43:38,979 --> 01:43:41,781
You thought
I was just - J"
2217
01:43:41,782 --> 01:43:45,918
J" You thought I was just worth
a picture J"
2218
01:43:45,919 --> 01:43:48,621
To- of thoughts
and times- J"
2219
01:43:48,622 --> 01:43:50,723
[music]
2220
01:43:50,724 --> 01:43:51,828
[glass breaks]
2221
01:43:53,961 --> 01:43:56,562
[music]
2222
01:43:56,563 --> 01:43:58,564
SINGER: J" Lies they tell us,
lies they live J"
2223
01:43:58,565 --> 01:44:00,700
J" What is it
that lies can give'? J"
2224
01:44:00,701 --> 01:44:02,969
J" Peace or hatred,
love or fear? J"
2225
01:44:02,970 --> 01:44:04,704
Who will lie
the most this year'? J"
2226
01:44:04,705 --> 01:44:06,772
J" Lies they tell us,
lies they live J"
2227
01:44:06,773 --> 01:44:08,708
J" What is it that lies
can give'? J"
2228
01:44:08,709 --> 01:44:10,943
J" Peace or hatred,
love or fear? J"
2229
01:44:10,944 --> 01:44:14,880
J" Who will lie the most
this year'? J"
2230
01:44:14,881 --> 01:44:17,917
PETER: This is Hujar
at noon on Sunday
2231
01:44:17,918 --> 01:44:19,552
you wanna hear some Italian?
2232
01:44:19,553 --> 01:44:20,553
Listen.
2233
01:44:20,554 --> 01:44:24,257
[woman speaks Italian]
2234
01:44:24,258 --> 01:44:25,658
PETER: Did you like ma?
2235
01:44:25,659 --> 01:44:27,393
Oh, she's been imitating
an American.
2236
01:44:27,394 --> 01:44:29,897
How about that?
Anyway, goodbye.
2237
01:44:33,734 --> 01:44:35,601
MAN". See you later, gator.
2238
01:44:35,602 --> 01:44:38,606
[birds chirping]
2239
01:44:40,841 --> 01:44:43,822
- [laughter]
- SINGER: J" - your heart J"
188002
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