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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,240 [pensive music playing] 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 4 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:55,600 [film camera rolling] 5 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,400 [Dave] Whisky is boiled beer. It's simple as that. 6 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:34,560 You take the cereal, you grind it up, you add hot water to it. 7 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,760 That converts starch into sugar. 8 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:38,800 You add yeast to that sweet liquid. 9 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:40,480 That ferments it into a beer. 10 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,560 And then you boil it in a copper still. 11 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,000 Alcohol boils at a lower temperature to water. 12 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,720 So all the flavours you've created during fermentation 13 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,840 and the flavours from the cereal itself end up being concentrated. 14 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,280 Then you're going to take that, 15 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,480 and because it's still fairly rough around the edges, 16 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,040 you're going to age it in oak casks. 17 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,160 And the oak casks mellow it out, add more flavour itself, 18 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:04,920 because it's coming out of the oak, 19 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,360 and it softens out, and boom, there you have it. 20 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:09,840 That's whisky. 21 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,160 [pensive music playing] 22 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:43,880 [Dave] I'm biased because I'm Glaswegian. 23 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,120 And, you know, I haven't lived there for a long time, 24 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:46,040 but, you know, where's home? 25 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:47,080 Glasgow's home. 26 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,320 It's incredibly friendly, it's incredibly funny, 27 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,960 it's working class, it's an architectural splendour. 28 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:02,240 It's been at the heart of incredible movements in art and design, 29 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,680 and music, and whisky-making, and trade and industry. 30 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,560 It's been a place of incredible poverty. 31 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:16,960 It's frustrating and it's tough at times, but, yeah, that's life. 32 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,920 And it's where I was brought up.[laughs] 33 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,200 That's it, you know. 34 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,160 And you've got to accept it in all its kind of messy contradictions. 35 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,480 That's kind of Scottish, I think. 36 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:31,480 My dad was a whisky drinker. 37 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,800 He would have one dram every night when he came home from work. 38 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,160 I got to a certain age. 39 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,160 I suppose I must have been like 10 or 11, 40 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,320 and I was allowed to add the water to his whisky, 41 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,040 and he was very particular about it. 42 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,960 You know, the tap had to run for a certain amount of time. 43 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,640 You had to judge exactly the coldness of the water. 44 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,520 And exactly the right amount of water had to go into the whisky, 45 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,320 just enough to kind of cloud the dram, 46 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,800 so you get that viscometry going on in there. 47 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,920 And it would just be that one dram of a blended whisky every night, 48 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:03,280 unless his family were around. 49 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,680 And at that point, all my uncles and aunts would arrive. 50 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,560 And all the men drank whisky, apart from my Aunt Mary. 51 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,880 My Aunt Mary drank whisky and soda. 52 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,080 She was considered quite racy for doing that. 53 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,600 There'd be music, there'd be… there'd be fiddles. 54 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,920 Uncle Tom would have a fiddle out, my Aunt Jean would be at the piano. 55 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,160 Everybody'd be singing songs, you'd be doing your party pieces. 56 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:24,880 All my cousins would be around. 57 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,560 All the adults smoked in those days, so you'd find yourself… 58 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:30,960 It was a bit like an Ivor Cutler scene. 59 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,400 You'd find yourself kind of on the carpet underneath this layer of smoke. 60 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,080 So, I suppose even from an early age, 61 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,960 I was aware of whisky's ability to pull people together. 62 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,560 It was part and parcel of being a community, 63 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:45,440 part and parcel of being a family. 64 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,160 And I think when you look at whisky from a historical point of view, 65 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,400 you realise that once you cut through all the business 66 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,240 and everything surrounding whisky, that that's what its role has been. 67 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,480 Somehow, whisky has a greater function, 68 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:06,280 and its greater function is this sense of being part of an environment, 69 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:07,520 part of a culture. 70 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,720 And because it's part of an environment, it's an expression of that environment, 71 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,480 an expression of who you are. 72 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:18,880 Therefore, there's a direct link between that and art and literature. 73 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,840 It's gone beyond just this thing in the glass, 74 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,240 and it's somehow rippled out across the whole of Scottish culture. 75 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,440 [pensive music continues] 76 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:42,640 [ocean waves crashing] 77 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,600 [Dave] Islay is this wee island off the coast of Scotland. 78 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,560 It's a hundred miles due west of Glasgow. 79 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:54,960 And it has everything you need in one place to make great whisky. 80 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:59,960 It's a great example of how the rock and the climate 81 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,160 bring barley into life and bring farming into life 82 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,040 and allow the possibility of whisky to be made. 83 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,080 And you've also got just remarkable people 84 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,120 who understand how to manipulate all these things 85 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,480 to make something which is compelling. 86 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:20,920 And they're also quite thirsty, 87 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,880 so they've been doing it quite a long time. 88 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:30,280 You've got to have a bit of fun with whisky. 89 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,480 [man] Of course you have. That's what whisky's all about. Fun. 90 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,320 [Dave] Do you think people are a bit too serious about it? 91 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,120 [Iain] Well, it's good to be serious. 92 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,760 We wanna be serious ourselves when we're doing it, 93 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:43,960 but it's nice to get a wee bit of fun. 94 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,640 -Aye, because you kinda… You miss that. -Oh, definitely. 95 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,240 You know you guys. You're there to put smiles on people's faces, aren't you? 96 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:52,560 [Iain] Hopefully. 97 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:55,360 [Dave] How long has the family been here on Islay? 98 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:56,960 How… How do you date it back? 99 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,280 Well, we can date it back a long, long time. 100 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,920 I think… Definitely over 200 years. 101 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,960 [Dave] What was it like growing up on Islay? Was there whisky around? 102 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:09,440 [Iain] Yes, there was whisky along. 103 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,560 My grandfather liked whisky, and my late dad liked whisky too. 104 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,040 My late dad worked on Laphroaig for a long time. 105 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,040 And he would enjoy a dram. 106 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,120 They weren't big drinkers, it was just when they were going out, 107 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,520 special occasions, having a few drams. 108 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,280 And what would he have drunk then, your dad and your granddad? 109 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,600 -[exhales] Anything they would get. -[both laugh] 110 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:39,360 [Dave] But it seems to me whisky-making, when you were growing up, 111 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,240 was much more like the old ways of doing it, 112 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:42,720 -like the old farm way of doing it. -[Iain] Yes. 113 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,280 [Dave] You know, you would close down in the summer, 114 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,800 you… you would cut your peat, you would distil over the winter, 115 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,120 your cattle would get the draff and etcetera, etcetera. 116 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,360 Distilleries in the old days were only going for so long. 117 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,840 In the summertime, they used to stop, go out to the peat moss, 118 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,640 cut the peats, lift them and take them home. 119 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,080 [Dave] So what you're cutting now is what, hundreds of years… 120 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,920 [Iain] Yes. Thousands of years old, yes. 121 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,200 [Dave] Tell me what the difference between the top peat and the bottom peat is. 122 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,040 [Iain] Well, you see there, the top peat is very stringy, 123 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,320 and the bottom peat looks more like coal. 124 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:21,560 The top peat's giving you the smoke, whereas bottom peat is burning like coal. 125 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,640 So, the distilleries want the top peat because… 126 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,520 -Yes, to get smoke. -Right. 127 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,440 [soothing music playing] 128 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:36,039 [Dave] There's a distinct possibility. 129 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:41,400 that Islay was where distillation made its first footfall in Scotland, 130 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:46,200 thanks to the arrival there of a family of doctors called the Beatons. 131 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,240 And they began distilling from beer, 132 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,840 a drink which became known as "uisge beatha", water of life. 133 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,440 The Beatons were the loyal doctors to a household in Ireland, 134 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,680 and that household married into the McDonalds, 135 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,240 and when that sort of alliance 136 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,800 was done about the 1300s at that point, 137 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,440 then, you know, that aqua vie, uisge beathaproduction 138 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,680 then would have come to Islay as medicine. 139 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,360 [Georgie] It would have come into the royal household, into the court. 140 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,320 It would have been used as medicine. 141 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,440 Of course, we know as well it's not just medicine it was used for, 142 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,920 and then it would be, as you would see in story and song, 143 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,360 that it was actually used before going to battle and celebrations, 144 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:30,720 things like that as well. 145 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,720 But that's where the sort of secret of distillation would have journeyed in. 146 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,920 So Islay was important for so many different levels, 147 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,480 but, actually, the people and the type of people 148 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:41,120 that were actually living here and ruling huge swathes 149 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,720 of Ireland and Scotland from Islay 150 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:45,640 would have actually brought that here to the royal household. 151 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:47,640 -[Dave] So it had strategic importance. -[Georgie] Absolutely. 152 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,400 [Dave] And then something which was, you know, able to be produced 153 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:51,840 because of the conditions 154 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,840 and something which was of high quality and using the herbs 155 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,480 and everything which was growing because of these conditions. 156 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:02,440 Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, everything came together for being a perfect place. 157 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,720 [wind blowing] 158 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,560 [Dave] I seem to have spent a bit of time wandering around graveyards. 159 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,680 [Claire] I think that's the thing when you're interested in the past and… 160 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,840 -It happens to me a lot. -[both laughing] 161 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,240 This is a dedication to the Beaton physicians of Islay. 162 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,560 I mean, it's an… an example of the stature that they had 163 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,280 and how highly esteemed they were at that point in history. 164 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:41,200 And these two doctors, it's believed, are linked to the Patrick Beaton, 165 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,080 who was Robert the Bruce's head physician. 166 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,840 It's interesting to see that distillation is first found, you know, 167 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:55,360 around about the time the Beatons arrived in Scotland, it's first documented. 168 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,800 It's hard to think where else it could come from at that point in history, 169 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:02,640 because they brought so much skill and knowledge with them. 170 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,160 I suppose, these days, you say, "Well, they're doctors". 171 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,160 But in those days, they're… they're quasi-magicians, 172 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:14,200 they're druids, they are… they are possessors of incredible facts. 173 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,240 -[Claire] It was very dangerous times. -[Dave] It started in the century, yes. 174 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,680 [Claire] And Neal Beaton, in fact, was accused of witchcraft. 175 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,800 The accusation was based on him admitting 176 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:29,120 that he could tell the properties of plants 177 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:35,240 through taste, and by colour, and by smell. 178 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,040 And that's an early form of chemistry. 179 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,280 I mean, that's how… that's how we discovered chemistry. 180 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,800 You know, he was a pioneer at the time, but he was accused of witchcraft for this 181 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:50,080 because it was not something that his society understood. 182 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,160 [pensive music playing] 183 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,200 [Dave] Storytelling is cultural history. 184 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:06,560 Sometimes it seems fantastical, 185 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:11,280 and it might just be a poetic way of describing a truth. 186 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,520 So the… the potential origins of distillation 187 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:20,600 and, you know, why… why distillation was a secret guarded 188 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:23,280 primarily by women for a long time 189 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,760 becomes part and parcel of that great story about the Queen of the Sidhe, 190 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,640 the fairy queen in Fairy Hill on Islay, 191 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,640 summoning the women of the islands to Fairy Hill, 192 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,840 where once they had arrived and the doors on the hill had opened 193 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,360 and… and all the women of the islands entered, 194 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:46,440 she poured them, into their scallop shells, a liquid, 195 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,240 and the liquid was knowledge. 196 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,200 You know, there… there's, you know, 197 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,760 the knowledge of distillation encapsulated. 198 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:58,560 And there's wise women, there's… there's power, there's information, 199 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,440 and it's rooted in the landscape, it's rooted in the place. 200 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,240 It's a story of… of incredible beauty, 201 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,200 but there's a real… there's an abiding truth at the heart of it, 202 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,280 and the abiding truth is, you know, women had this knowledge. 203 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,040 But it's a much more interesting way of saying it 204 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,880 rather than, you know, actually your great-granny, you know, 205 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,320 picked these herbs off the rocks. 206 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,600 You know, you take it off into this… this mythic realm, 207 00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:24,280 and it just, it creates even greater power. 208 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:25,720 Fantastic. 209 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,360 [Claire] Yeah, I think so. I think if we went for the… 210 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:30,960 That's super nutty. That's got the macadamia nut… 211 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:32,600 -Yes! -…kind of thing going on. 212 00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:35,720 Now that you've said that, I can totally get that nuttiness. 213 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,600 [Dave] We had this mad idea that if uisge beathawas made in Islay, 214 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:43,120 we might as well recreate it. 215 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,920 So we went around the island and picked a whole number of different herbs, 216 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,200 for their curative and aromatic purposes. 217 00:13:50,680 --> 00:13:52,480 So there's angelica, there's wild thyme, 218 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:56,160 there's hog seed, creeping thistle, and meadowsweet. 219 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,880 All went into our brand-new, yet ancient recipe. 220 00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:03,480 -[James] So we just… load it up? -[Claire] Yeah. 221 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:11,040 This is really hubble-bubble toil and trouble. [laughs] 222 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,160 [Dave] We have, of course, taken out a licence for this. 223 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:15,240 [James chuckles] Yes. 224 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,880 Just in case anyone from HMRC is watching. 225 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:20,280 [Claire laughs] 226 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,440 -Honest folks. -[Claire] All above board. 227 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,240 No excise man to be chasing us. 228 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,720 [Dave] So just kinda coming back to the principles of this… 229 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,600 I mean, Scotland has the right terroir, 230 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,120 the right conditions for growing barley, for growing oats, 231 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,320 and therefore people began to make spirit from what grew around them. 232 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,800 Presumably, the people who were here originally, you know, 233 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,080 if they were making medicine or uisge beathasor whatever, 234 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,880 you know, they're still only going to be using what grows around them. 235 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:56,880 The old adage is, medieval times, 236 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,760 you never made it seven miles from home, so it would have been… 237 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,880 These days, there's such a focus on provenance and local, and… 238 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,240 You know, that-- You had little choice in that, I suppose, back then. 239 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,960 Each region, each village, each family would have had their own little take, 240 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:15,440 everyone's mum's clootie dumplings 241 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,760 are always the best there's ever been, so… [laughs] 242 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,760 [James] You know, very often, it's the most everyday plants 243 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:23,120 that are giving you such fabulous-- 244 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:24,320 I mean hogweed. 245 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,440 You'll find precious few folk around 246 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,680 that realise the… the massive explosion of flavour 247 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,480 you'll get out something as basic as hogweed, hog seeds. 248 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,560 Here are people who are living within a landscape, you know, 249 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,000 and actually know every nuance. 250 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,080 You know, they understand the movements of the deer, 251 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:42,200 they understand the seasons, 252 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,120 they understand the plants, etcetera, etcetera. 253 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,360 And it… it filters through into the poetry and the song. 254 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:49,360 But it's also here. 255 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,840 You know, it's also here in distillation, and it's here, presumably, 256 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,360 you know, in some tangential way, 257 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,560 in the flavours that they're going to be producing in their whiskies. 258 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,320 [seagulls squawking] 259 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,080 [Georgie] It's a communal thing, really, isn't it? 260 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,120 I think it would have been very much around the, 261 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:11,920 "this is the grain that we have", you know, 262 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,160 within a family or a small community. 263 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,800 And they would be making it communally, for sharing communally. 264 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,120 It was never about selling whisky. 265 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:19,640 It was always about sharing whisky 266 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,920 and always about sharing stories and times together. 267 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,480 And I think that's very much, you know, a part of the culture on Islay is that, 268 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,280 because you are more isolated, 269 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,240 that what you have belongs to everyone within your community, 270 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:33,800 and everyone is there to help each other. 271 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:35,680 I think that that probably hasn't changed. 272 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,120 I think that's the way that's always been. 273 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,920 [Niall] But also a long, dark winter. 274 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,480 -[Dave laughs] -[Niall] You know… 275 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:45,880 And there wasn't an awful lot. 276 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,400 You know, the crops were in, the peats were cut, 277 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,480 the animals were back in from the sheilings. 278 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,640 They've distilled their spirit and they're sitting there, 279 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,000 it's dark at half past 4:00. 280 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,480 It's not light really until nine o'clock in the morning. 281 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:04,040 There was a really rich oral culture of stories, and tales and traditions. 282 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,640 They had to do this, because if they didn't, what would they do? 283 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,319 You know, and whisky would have played a large part in that as well. 284 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:17,280 [liquid trickling] 285 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:18,560 [Claire] Oh, hold on, we're coming. 286 00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:23,760 That's sweet. 287 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:26,359 That's really sweet. [chuckles] 288 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,760 That's the… That's the angelica. 289 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:30,840 Oh, yeah, wow. 290 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,440 -[Claire] I think it's angelica. -That's extraordinary. 291 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:34,520 It's really come through. 292 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,960 -[Claire] Yes, it really, really did. -[Dave] It's really, really intense. 293 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:38,120 [Claire] Oh, my goodness. 294 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,240 [Dave] That's fantastic. I can live with that. 295 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,000 [Dave] Traditionally, with uisge beathas, they ended up being coloured. 296 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:50,440 So we might colour this one up. 297 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,320 I think we'll just kind of experiment and see if… 298 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,480 You know, just to give it a tiny little bit of colour. 299 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,640 I love it. Love it. [laughs] 300 00:17:58,720 --> 00:17:59,880 [sniffs] Yep, really nice. 301 00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:03,160 -[Dave] We have uisge beatha. -[Claire speaking in Irish] 302 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,280 -Oh, yeah, it's all coming together there. -[Dave] Yeah. 303 00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:07,720 You do get that orange back from the angelica. 304 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,840 It's fantastic. You know, it takes you right back 305 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,360 to the early days of… of distillation. 306 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,040 This is what it would have been like, you know. 307 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,560 -Yay! -[all laughing] 308 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,480 ["Mo Thruaigh Leir Thu 'Ille Bhuidhe" playing] 309 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:27,280 ♪ Mo thruaigh leir thu ille bhuidhe ♪ 310 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:32,520 ♪ 'S ann an duigh tha'n deigh ort ♪ 311 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:33,800 [Dave] From a historical point of view, 312 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:38,960 how important was song to… to the Gaelic-speaking community? 313 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,360 [Rachel] Every task would have a song to go along with it. 314 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,440 A good example is like a waulking song, not a walking along the road, 315 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:46,600 but waulking the tweed. 316 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,400 So women would sit around a table 317 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,080 and sort of beat the tweed to shrink it and make it water-tight. 318 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,600 And so this would have a kind of specific kind of beat and a rhythm, 319 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,400 and… and they would sing these waulking songs. 320 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,080 For me, even though, like, a lot were eventually written down, 321 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,400 Gaelic poetry is, in fact, lyrics. 322 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,520 There's a turn of phrase that I really like, that people often use, 323 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,320 which is, "so-and-so gave me this song". 324 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,560 You know, there's sort of people giving these songs, 325 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,680 passing them on through, you know, the generations, 326 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,360 which is a lovely… lovely thing. 327 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:25,440 ♪ Mo thruaigh leir thu ille bhuidhe ♪ 328 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,800 [Rachel] So, the song, "Mo Thruaigh Leir Thu 'Ille Bhuidhe", it's called. 329 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,120 "'Ille Bhuidhe" is the blond-haired boy. 330 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,520 And I didn't know this, it was the great Kenna Campbell 331 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,720 who told me once that the blond-haired boy was actually the whisky. 332 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:47,800 And the verses sing about smuggling whisky from Ireland over to Scotland. 333 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,280 It's got a lot of momentum, the song. 334 00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:51,400 It kind of just sort of chugs along, you know. 335 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:05,480 [Dave] Over the past two days, 336 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,640 we have indulged in something which is quasi-legal… 337 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,440 [people laughing] 338 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,720 [Dave] Umm, to recreate an uisge beatha. 339 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,120 So this is what we're going to be drinking. 340 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,520 ["Mo Thruaigh Leir Thu 'Ille Bhuidhe" continues] 341 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,120 [Dave] Martin Martin, whose name keeps reappearing, 342 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:29,280 wrote this account of… of drinking in the islands of Scotland 343 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:33,760 when he was travelling, stravaiging around the beginning of the 18th century, 344 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,840 and it goes something like this. 345 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,320 The manner of their drinking was called a "streah a 'round". 346 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,840 [Dave] And a cup would be passed from one to the other, 347 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:47,240 and the cup would be drained, 348 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,920 and the drinking would go on 24, sometimes 48 hours. 349 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,840 -[people laughing] -[Dave] You're here for a while, guys. 350 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:57,840 Until all became drunk. 351 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:02,600 And there were men stationed at the door with wheelbarrows, taxi firms… 352 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,880 -[people laughing] -[Dave] …to carry them off. 353 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,920 Then you look at it a bit more closely and you say, 354 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,360 "Actually, this is an important moment in the history of whisky, 355 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,280 for this is an account of whisky actually becoming part of us". 356 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,080 It's not-- It's a community gathering together. 357 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,640 And automatically, even these days, we gather together in circles. 358 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,760 It's democratic. Nobody is sitting at the head of the table. 359 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,720 And you can imagine just the cup getting passed from one to the other, 360 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,200 and the conversation starting, 361 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,440 and it's going to be about crops or it's going to be about marriages. 362 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,440 It might be about war or whatever, but it's a community coming together 363 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,800 and it's whisky sitting there at the heart of it. 364 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:42,520 And for me, that account is whisky becoming part of us. 365 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,400 So here's to whisky being part of us. 366 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,680 -[people speaking in Irish] -[Dave] And I hope you like it. 367 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,000 [pensive music playing] 368 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:15,360 My official first dram was just after my dad died. 369 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,960 And my Uncle Tom took me to the pub 370 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:22,320 and went up to the bar, and he just ordered two whiskies. 371 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,720 And it was-- 372 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,720 I remember thinking at the time, you know, this is an important moment, 373 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:35,600 because this somehow was a confirmation that things had changed. 374 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,000 I was a man. Something had happened. 375 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:41,840 And it was a way of perhaps getting over grief, 376 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,320 it was a way of him in his own really lovely, quiet ways of saying, 377 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,120 "All right, boy, you know, you've grown up". 378 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,240 [indie music playing] 379 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:12,320 [singing indistinctly] 380 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,120 So you probably don't have a clue who's gonna walk through the door next, 381 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,320 because, suddenly, you've got an international audience, 382 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,120 you've got locals coming in, you've got students coming in, 383 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:32,960 all different age groups, etcetera, etcetera. 384 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,400 I had a guy in last night who had 20 minutes before his train at Central, 385 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:42,000 and so he was in for one dram, one last dram before he left Scotland, 386 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,240 which was really nice, but he put us under a bit of pressure. 387 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:45,520 [Frank] You know, I'm going, "All right, okay, 388 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,320 so how long have we got to pick this? Would you like…" 389 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,200 "No, I just want one dram now". I was like, "All right, fine". 390 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,920 There's more people talking about it, and there's more people talking about it 391 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,760 in ways that people who are not natural whisky drinkers 392 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,840 might get on board with more. 393 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,600 Once you're in the door, once you've got a dram in your hand, 394 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,440 you have something you're drinking, something you like, you don't like, 395 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:07,920 you can express an opinion on it, 396 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,720 and you might end up talking to the guy next to you and asking what he's drinking. 397 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,840 Are you drinking the same thing or are you drinking a different thing? 398 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,080 And you'll end up chatting about it 399 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:15,360 because you've now got a shared vocabulary. 400 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,320 You've never met this person before in your life, 401 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,560 but you've now got something to talk about. 402 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,520 It's not difficult to make whisky. 403 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,240 It's difficult to make good whisky, but it's not difficult to make whisky. 404 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,080 It was always a simple drink. 405 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,240 Everything else that we've added to it over the years 406 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,840 is just because we like getting into the nitty-gritty of something. 407 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,360 You get people who have more of an interest in provenance, 408 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,680 about who's making it, where it's made, and what it's made from. 409 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,400 And that then plays right into whisky's real house. 410 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,120 That gives them a chance to talk about everything 411 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:46,640 that's ever gone on in Scotland. 412 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,040 [Dave] For it's such a humble drink. 413 00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:49,880 You know, you think of it. You know, it's what? 414 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,000 You know, barley, water, yeast, and oak. 415 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:53,840 Boom, there you go. Thank you very much. 416 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,320 [Frank] It's guys making it in a cave by a bong. 417 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,400 You're not talking about a château in France surrounded by vineyards. 418 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,800 -[Dave] Thanks a lot, man. [laughs] -It's good to see you. 419 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,400 [Frank and Dave speaking in Irish] 420 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:18,560 How are you? 421 00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:31,040 [Dave] So one of the interesting parallels that exist between whisky and the arts 422 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:33,240 is this idea of the continual. 423 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,320 That the artist, the musician, the whisky maker, 424 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,640 is a link in a chain that goes back for centuries. 425 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,560 There's this tradition, but it's a tradition 426 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,240 that continually adds new variants and elements 427 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,440 in order for it to grow and evolve. 428 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,360 It's like singing a ballad. 429 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,320 The words are there, the tune is there, but if you're singing that old song today, 430 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,840 you're going to be putting your own spin on it. 431 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,760 And it's this balance that exists between tradition and innovation 432 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,760 that are the roots of creativity. 433 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,520 And that's what fascinates me about whisky. 434 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,640 And I think that is what roots whisky in the culture. 435 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,280 ["Firewater" playing] 436 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,040 ♪ How can I ever know you? ♪ 437 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,840 ♪ How can I ever know you? ♪ 438 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:43,080 ♪ I know your way your way of living Till I know your way of dying ♪ 439 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:52,640 ♪ And how will I remember Till I taste the nectar of your ember? ♪ 440 00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:01,520 ♪ Where is the firewater tonight? Where is the firewater? ♪ 441 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,240 [Alasdair] I'm always kind of writing, but at the same time, 442 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,880 I'm… I'm also researching traditional songs. 443 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,120 So, you know, while I'm waiting for a new… 444 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,440 a new batch of self-written material to kind of germinate, 445 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,240 I'll be focusing more on the traditional songs. 446 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,960 ♪ How can I ever know you? ♪ 447 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,080 ♪ How can I ever know you? ♪ 448 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,280 ♪ How can I know you're full grown Till I've known you as a child? ♪ 449 00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:48,800 [Dave] You've got traditional songs, but you've got electronics and-- 450 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,240 But you've got a 19th century piano. 451 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,600 I mean, how important is it for you 452 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,600 to be constantly moving the tradition forward, 453 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,680 being aware of what's around it without actually losing what makes it special? 454 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:08,680 I think of what the great English folk singer, Martin Carthy, said, 455 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,000 something along the lines of, 456 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,560 "You know, the worst thing that you can do with these songs is just not sing them". 457 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,800 You know, it's… I think as long as you have love and respect, and… 458 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,400 treat them with care, you can be as radical as you like. 459 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,160 ♪ Clear as a firewater ♪ 460 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:31,440 ♪ Sky above us, soil beneath us We'll build our library of aethers ♪ 461 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,000 ♪ Library of aethers ♪ 462 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:40,120 ♪ Library of aethers We'll build our library of aethers ♪ 463 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,680 ♪ Library of aethers ♪ 464 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:49,040 ♪ Where is the firewater? Tonight, where is the firewater? ♪ 465 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,960 ♪ Where is the firewater? ♪ 466 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,880 ♪ Where is the firewater? ♪ 467 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,960 [Dave] My lightbulb moment, my whisky epiphany, 468 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,920 took place in the far northwest of Scotland. 469 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,720 The three of us decided to go to a cèilidh in Ullapool, 470 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,200 which is about 30 miles away. 471 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,840 And knew that a whole bunch of friends 472 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,640 would have a head start on us in terms of the drink, 473 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,280 so we decided we would try and achieve some… some degree of parity, 474 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,480 on the road down to Ullapool. 475 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,520 And two of us began drinking. 476 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,200 The driver didn't, I hasten to add. 477 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,800 And I looked out the window, and there was this landscape, 478 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,720 there was the incredible moorland, 479 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:37,400 and sudden mountains rearing up and lochans and the sun just going down. 480 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,400 And I took another sip, and I realised that this whisky is from this place. 481 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,280 You know, this is more than just a drink. 482 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,800 This is a manifestation of place. 483 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,280 The people who made this have created it. 484 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,960 You know, it was a spark of creativity. 485 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,320 And, you know, whisky, suddenly, for me, at that particular point, 486 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,080 became something I wanted to learn more and more about. 487 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,200 Whisky suddenly became more than just something 488 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,480 that was made in this kind of obscure thing called a distillery 489 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,400 and actually became part of a creative impulse. 490 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,960 And that was it. I fell in love. 491 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:24,000 I asked you, as we were wandering here, you know, about your whisky epiphany, 492 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,040 you know, that moment where everything just went "wow". 493 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:29,800 You said it was Talisker. 494 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,600 My wife and I, girlfriend at the time, 495 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,320 had been picking grapes in France, got friendly with an American guy, 496 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:35,560 who was also picking grapes. 497 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,640 He was from California. He said, "Oh, hey, I'm coming to Scotland". 498 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,880 So he came to stay with us in my student flat in Edinburgh, 499 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,720 and he said, "Can we go and look at some distilleries?" 500 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,360 So I borrowed my auntie's car, my Auntie Jenny from Lochgelly, 501 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,560 I borrowed her car, and we drove around the north of Scotland 502 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,880 visiting as many distilleries as we could. 503 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,280 -No real plan to it at all. -[Dave] Yes. 504 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,560 But we had some amazing nights. 505 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,120 And one in particular, we were staying in a youth hostel in Uig, 506 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,720 I think, Isle of Skye, way in the middle of nowhere, 507 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,360 and we knew that the local whisky was Talisker, 508 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,760 and we walked into this quite a rough bar, I would say. 509 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,880 You know, the piano player stopped playing as we walked in through the front door. 510 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,720 The barman was kind of polishing glasses, looking at us a wee bit suspect, you know. 511 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,960 Walked up and said, "Two Taliskers, please". 512 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,160 And he went, "Sixty, 70 or 100 proof?" 513 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:26,560 I went, "Hundred". 514 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:31,160 -The piano player starts playing again. -[Dave and Ian laughing] 515 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,960 [Ian] I mean, that wee tour I did with my friend was a fantastic adventure. 516 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,720 An adventure in place, an adventure in geography, and meeting people. 517 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,360 You go to Shetland, different people. 518 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,600 People are very different from the people on the mainland. 519 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,280 You go to Aberdeen, people are different from Dundee, 520 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,160 different from Inverness, different from Glasgow. 521 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:49,720 Go to Western Isles, different again. 522 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,960 So it's this very multifarious small country. 523 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,960 And the whisky's part of that, because every whisky is different. 524 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,800 Every whisky's different, every whisky is particular to that area. 525 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,320 And all the cultures and all the people are different. 526 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,640 The language is different. The way we talk is different. 527 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,360 It's a very insular country in some ways but also a very outward-looking country. 528 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,640 It's a country that's very proud of its past but very fixed on the future. 529 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,600 It's a country that is open to change but is also wary of change. 530 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,320 It's a complicated place, a really complicated place. 531 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:27,920 [birds chirping] 532 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,400 [Alasdair] I find it helps to make me stupid. 533 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:41,680 I've got a very active brain, but if I stupefy myself with whisky, 534 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,240 I fall asleep easier. 535 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,320 It makes it easy for… easier… 536 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,720 for intellectually active folk, 537 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,040 who find their intelligence a bit of a pest, 538 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:58,960 to stupefy themselves. 539 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,640 In relation to Scotland, if you look at it, 540 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,520 you'll see that it is like… 541 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,320 a large collection of islands jammed together. 542 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,320 This was brought forcibly to me by… 543 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,160 a French filmmaker. 544 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,000 The way he put it was that the… 545 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,480 that Glasgow had little to do with Edinburgh, 546 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,360 that the Highlands had little to do with the Lowlands, 547 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,000 and that the Borders were distinct as well. 548 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,120 And you can see it running right through, that… 549 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,680 that the nations that Scotland was eventually gathered together 550 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:50,400 from all had their capital cities 551 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,080 on a variety of different volcanic rocks. 552 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,720 Edinburgh Castle, Dumbarton. 553 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,080 These different nations 554 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,160 were always squabbling or fighting with each other. 555 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:11,239 The unifying power that made the Highlands and Lowlands and… 556 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,920 and the other lords and lairds cooperate 557 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,719 was the English attempt to take over, 558 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:26,480 and the Scots united to prevent that… 559 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,320 for a long time. 560 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:39,719 When I was at university, there was quite a thing for the Caledonian Antisyzygy, 561 00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:42,600 being where extremes meet. 562 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:44,239 In MacDiarmid's phrase. 563 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,440 So it's that kind of tension between polar… polarities. 564 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,560 It's in all of us, this Jekyll and Hyde, this… 565 00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:53,360 this tension between doing good and doing-- and breaking the rules. 566 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,320 It's fun to break the rules, it's fun to be Mr Hyde, 567 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,800 it's fun to make up your own rules for living, 568 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,720 and not have to live by society's rules. 569 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,000 Isn't this antisyzygy thing a peculiar Scottish phenomenon? 570 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,280 Or do we just think it is because we're Scottish? 571 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:12,920 It permeates our literature in a way that I don't see in other cultures. 572 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:19,320 Specifically in literature, I think that notion of the divided self 573 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,800 is everywhere in Scottish poetry and fiction and drama. 574 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,440 Maybe it's peculiar in some ways to smaller countries 575 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,480 that feel smothered by bigger cultures next door to them. 576 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:35,520 But I do think that there's a darkness in the Scottish soul. 577 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,520 You've got long dark nights, right? 578 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,840 Long dark nights, when we just tend to sit and brood. 579 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,320 We brood, we drink whisky, and we read books. 580 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,120 [baby crying] 581 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,520 [Ian] It's the man himself, Fergusson, striding with his books. 582 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,240 -Yeah. That looks cool. -Good man. And he's buried here. 583 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,280 -Let's go and have a wee chat with him. -I've not been here for ages. 584 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,240 Yeah, Fergusson is one of these poets that I wasn't aware of 585 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:09,640 when I was at school. 586 00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:13,240 At primary school, we had Burns drummed into us, by the Burns Club. 587 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,160 And then suddenly, you know, 588 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:17,840 you became aware of this guy, Robert Fergusson, 589 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,840 who had been writing these extraordinary long poems about Edinburgh 590 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,360 that were very much about the city of the time, 591 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:25,640 and he'd been forgotten about. 592 00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:29,080 [Dave] But also, he wrote about whisky, which nobody was doing. 593 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,640 Uh-huh. So, I was wondering if, at his grave, 594 00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:34,440 perhaps you could read the first four verses 595 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,600 of "The Kings Birth-Day in Edinburgh". 596 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,400 -The King's Birth-Day in Edinburgh. -[Dave] Which ended in a riot. 597 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:40,760 [Ian] Yeah, quite. Of course. 598 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,480 But, I mean, I'm no poet myself, but I'll give it my best shot. 599 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,200 "The Kings Birth-Day in Edinburgh. 600 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,440 I sing the day sae aften sung Wi' which our lugs hae yearly rung 601 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,200 In whase loud praise the Muse has dung A' kind o' print 602 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,080 But wow, the limmer's fairly flung There's naithing in't 603 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,440 I'm fain to think the joy's the same In London town as here at hame 604 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,040 Whare fouk o' ilka age and name Baith blind an' cripple 605 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:12,680 Forgather aft, O fy for shame To drink an' tipple 606 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:18,040 O Muse, be kind, an' dinna fash us To flee awa' beyont Parnassus 607 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,520 Nor seek for Helicon to wash us That heath'nish spring 608 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,440 Wi' Highland whisky scour our hawses An' gar us sing 609 00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:30,880 Begin then, dame, ye've drunk your fill You woudna hae the tither gill? 610 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,760 You'll trust me, mair would do you ill An' ding you doitet 611 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,920 Troth 'twould be sair against my will To hae the wyte o't". 612 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,040 I would change that line. 613 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,800 I would sort of switch those words around, but that's me, you know. 614 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,560 [chuckles] I don't understand all of that, but it's lovely, 615 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,520 and it's musical, and it is about whisky. 616 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,640 It's a lovely thing for a nation to have its own drink. 617 00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:54,120 I mean, whisky has been hugely successful. 618 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,360 I mean, Fergusson was the first to start recording it in literature, really, 619 00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,880 and doing it in a way that said, look, this is part of the people, 620 00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:03,080 this is the people's drink, this is part of our culture, our nation. 621 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,680 It's this drink is closely linked in with us. 622 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,120 The Edinburgh he's talking about is an Edinburgh that, 623 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,520 when people come here, now in contemporary times, 624 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,120 they want to see that Edinburgh. 625 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,400 And because the Old Town is fairly intact, or a lot of it's fairly intact, 626 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,920 they can see his Edinburgh, they can see Fergusson's Edinburgh, 627 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,520 they can see the Edinburgh of Burns and Robert Louis Stevenson. 628 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,920 So when you go down these wee alleyways off the Royal Mile 629 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,200 or into a kirkyard, like Cannongate Kirkyard, 630 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,560 you will encounter the Edinburgh that would have been known intimately 631 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:30,880 by people like Robert Fergusson. 632 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,360 This is what he would have seen, this is where he would have walked around, 633 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,120 and these are the bars he would have gone into. 634 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,240 And there is that myth of the writer, the hard-drinking writer, 635 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,720 which, you know, has always been there. 636 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,720 And you look at the number of great writers who've been done down by it. 637 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,880 And who's to say it didn't play a small part 638 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,360 in the downfall of Robert Fergusson? 639 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,720 I mean, he did end up in a lunatic asylum, he did end up his days impoverished. 640 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,880 And, you know, sometimes a drink brings out the worst in you 641 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,880 as well as best in you, and not everybody can handle it. 642 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,880 [pensive music playing] 643 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,840 [Dave] The song you're gonna be singing for us, can you tell us about that? 644 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,720 [Alasdair] Yeah, the song is called "Johnny My Man". 645 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,840 And I think it was first published around 1850, 646 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:27,200 and I suppose it's basically a song about the perils of drink. 647 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,240 ♪ Oh, Johnny my man ♪ 648 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:38,520 ♪ Do you no think o' risin' ♪ 649 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,800 ♪ The day is far spent ♪ 650 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:47,640 ♪ And the nicht's coming on ♪ 651 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,920 ♪ The siller's a' done ♪ 652 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,880 ♪ And the stoup steamed the foyer ♪ 653 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,760 What I love about this song is that it's, it's the wife 654 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,440 that is the person who is saying, 655 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,040 "your… your babies are crying, your babies are starving, 656 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:10,280 you've got to come home". 657 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,440 And I think that's what makes it so powerful 658 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,120 and less of a kind of a preachy ballad 659 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,200 and more of something that really gets to the heart of the matter, 660 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,240 which is this absent father, absent husband, 661 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:26,360 who is basically being kind of ground down by the perils of whisky. 662 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,560 [Dave] Well, you know, it's kind of the emotional impact. 663 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,000 ♪ Come in by, my dearie ♪ 664 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:37,720 ♪ And sit down beside me ♪ 665 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,920 ♪ For it's time enough yet ♪ 666 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:47,960 ♪ To be gaun awa' hame ♪ 667 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,760 ♪ How about Johnny my man? ♪ 668 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:58,800 ♪ When we first fell a-courtin' ♪ 669 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:03,960 ♪ There was naething but love then ♪ 670 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,680 ♪ To trouble our mind ♪ 671 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,200 ♪ And we spent all our days ♪ 672 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:19,280 ♪ 'Mang the sweet-scented roses ♪ 673 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:24,360 ♪ And we never thought ♪ 674 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:29,120 ♪ Towards gang awa' hame ♪ 675 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,080 I was thinking about it on the train… on the train on the way down here, 676 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,960 like about analogies between the process of making whisky 677 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,000 and then the process of making music and… 678 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,840 And I kind of think of both of them in alchemical ways, 679 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,560 in that you're taking these base elements 680 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,160 and, you know, combining them and processing them, 681 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,960 working intensely and carefully with them 682 00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,000 to… to create something new and unique. 683 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,440 And, you know, I suppose every… every whisky is unique. 684 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,200 Every… Every new piece of music 685 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,280 that's been created by this alchemical means is unique. 686 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,680 It's a kind of paradox because you're doing something 687 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,360 that is ancient and has been done countless times before, 688 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,080 you know, with whisky, with music, with any kind of art, 689 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,200 yet you're also… you're also creating something 690 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,480 that's never been created before. 691 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,160 You know, just because of the particular arrangement of the elements 692 00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:31,680 that you're working with. 693 00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:37,040 ♪ But thae days are a' past ♪ 694 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:43,400 ♪ And will never return, love ♪ 695 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,520 ♪ So sit down beside me ♪ 696 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:52,120 ♪ Nor think o' gaun hame ♪ 697 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,760 History is a kind of slippery thing. Everybody's got their own interpretation. 698 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,800 So this is my interpretation of the history of whisky, 699 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,600 in a fairly condensed, distilled form. 700 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,760 If you take the Beatons, the Beatons are coming from a medicinal side, 701 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,240 and at the same time, contemporaneous to that, 702 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,400 you have alchemists looking at distillation 703 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:18,320 in a completely different way, 704 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,000 in a much more kind of abstract and philosophical way, 705 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:25,480 including the great mad alchemist, John Damian, 706 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,280 who was the court alchemist to King James IV, 707 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:34,160 and who decreed at one point that he had learned how to fly 708 00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:38,320 and… and said he could fly from the battlements of Stirling Castle. 709 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,680 And he made himself a set of wings, feathery wings, 710 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:43,520 and leapt off the battlements 711 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,240 and plummeted into a dung heap at the bottom 712 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,320 and broke his… broke his thighbone. 713 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:50,360 I think as a result of that, 714 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,920 people look at alchemists as being kind of charlatans, 715 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:53,960 but they weren't. 716 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,760 A lot of them were actually very, very serious scientists. 717 00:43:58,080 --> 00:43:59,360 So you kinda got two schools. 718 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,040 You've got this kind of medicinal school 719 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,760 and you've got the more theoretical school from alchemy, 720 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:09,240 and you've got places such as Lindores, where monks were distilling. 721 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,440 Again, possibly for medicine and medicinal purposes, 722 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,720 but also equally perhaps for experimental purposes. 723 00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:20,760 The knowledge of distillation then spreads out across the community, 724 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,520 so that the people themselves began to make a distillate, 725 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:25,960 probably flavoured up. 726 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:27,240 And then slowly but surely, 727 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,320 the medicinal side simply disappears completely. 728 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,680 [synth music playing] 729 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,880 [Dave] Distillation was an agricultural activity, 730 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:52,560 so the knowledge of distillation, the use of distillation, 731 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,040 and the development of this thing that we call whisky 732 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:56,800 spreads across the whole of Scotland. 733 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,160 And one of the most important areas which began to develop 734 00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:03,280 is what we now refer to as Speyside. 735 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,880 Because what happened at that particular point is that 736 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:12,000 there's various changes in laws and taxation, 737 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:17,360 which effectively criminalised small-scale distillation. 738 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:22,840 And as a result, this kind of smuggling era, as it's called, 739 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,720 begins to… begins to start, begins to commence. 740 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:28,000 When you think of it in this way, 741 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,600 you know, where is the best place to make illicit hooch? 742 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,720 The best place to make illicit hooch is somewhere which is hard to get to. 743 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,200 Somewhere which is hard to police. 744 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,720 And if you go to the southern part of Speyside, 745 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,040 into the braes of Glenlivet and the southern part, 746 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,080 which is very wild, very rough, lots of kind of hidden little valleys, 747 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,360 they're hard to police. 748 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:57,000 If you wanna hide away, this is… this is the place, isn't it? 749 00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,960 Time to get the hiking boot on, I would say? 750 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,080 [Dave] I think so. Off we go. 751 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,200 [man] Well, it's pretty fertile as well, though. 752 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,080 I mean, it's kinda… It's high up, it's green there. 753 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,760 But it's completely… You're pretty much completely surrounded by hills. 754 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,560 This is a perfectly cut location. 755 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:28,040 Long winter months where the… the area could be cut off. 756 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:29,960 You didn't have modern snowploughs. 757 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,840 What a great time to turn that… that summer barley… 758 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:35,440 Turn that summer barley into… 759 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,360 …into a cash crop that you can sell to the middle men, 760 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:40,960 and it'll be smuggled away. 761 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:44,920 [Dave] Tell us about Scalan, then. 762 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:51,120 [Alan] Scalan is fascinating, because in the 17th century, this was a college. 763 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:55,800 College of Scalan. And this is where the priests came to do their training. 764 00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,680 Remote, because we were after the Reformation. 765 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:04,680 But these guys went to Rome, they read the classics, 766 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,720 but they also had to farm for themselves. 767 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,320 The burn. Water supply, good, clean water supply, 768 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,440 and lots of springs on the sides of the hills. 769 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,560 So a lot of ale, bread… 770 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,080 And who knows what else. You know? 771 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,280 -Maybe do a bit of brewing. A wee ale. -Right. 772 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:24,240 -You might just boil it, and it's whisky. -Aye, just by accident, Your Honour. 773 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,400 Yeah. Just, "Oh! Perfect!" 774 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:27,680 Just dropped it in the soup pot by mistake. 775 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,560 And you've got plenty-- If somebody is forming a lookout, 776 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,320 they've plenty of time to see anybody coming, 777 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,360 because the redcoats would be coming in over that hill there. 778 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:49,240 [Dave] Because they're hard to police, they begin to specialise, 779 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:53,680 and you see these kind of centres of excellence beginning to spring up. 780 00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:58,560 So it began to build a reputation. It began to be branded. 781 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:05,280 People began asking for Glenlivet Whisky, because it was a sign of the good stuff. 782 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:21,960 [Andrew] The first record of whisky came when the legs of the horses 783 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:27,400 pulling the coal down from Dunfermline got a bit tangled up 784 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:31,080 and they were dressed with a dressing of aqua vitae. 785 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:32,360 [both laughing] 786 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,400 That's… As far as I could make out, that was in 1768. 787 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:42,040 In the early part of the 18th century, 788 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,720 you had… if you… if you had a still, you had to have it licensed. 789 00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:49,720 And then Lord Bruce, 790 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:55,320 who was made responsible for collecting the duties… 791 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,280 Whether he collected a little extra as well, I don't know. 792 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,320 It wasn't until 1800 793 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,840 that we built a large shop, 794 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:12,200 which had everything in it for the men to work. 795 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:13,960 And by pure chance, 796 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:19,600 this volume here has survived. 797 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:25,120 It's from 1824 to about 1826, 798 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,600 and in it is recorded 799 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:34,280 the amount of whisky that went through the shop in Charlestown, 800 00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:40,000 and it amounted to just under 6,500 gallons. 801 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,640 Now I'm not certain whether they were Imperial gallons 802 00:49:45,720 --> 00:49:47,440 or whether they were Scottish gallons, 803 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:53,960 but considering there were only 132 houses in the village of Charlestown, 804 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:55,240 this is not bad going. 805 00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,760 -That's a… That's a fair amount. -Yeah. 806 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:00,720 [indistinct chatter] 807 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,120 [Dave] We navigate our lives by our sense of smell. 808 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:21,520 And it's remarkable how many aromas are triggered by our childhood memories. 809 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:27,320 And the smell of vanilla for me was eating ice cream in Millport in the summer. 810 00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:29,120 It was only years later, 811 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,840 when I was walking around Glasgow's Botanic Gardens, 812 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:33,480 that I found vanilla growing. 813 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,360 And the smell of coconut for me was hot gorse flowers. 814 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,560 Whisky has this ability to take you on a journey into your past 815 00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,680 and also into its landscape. 816 00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,000 Every sniff, every sip will take you deeper in. 817 00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,560 And once you begin to be aware of the aromas around you, 818 00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,360 so you begin to consciously engage with the world. 819 00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,520 And you know, what is better than engaging with the world? 820 00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,200 Gaelic poetry also has this vivid engagement 821 00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,240 with landscape and the senses. 822 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:12,640 Like whisky-making, it's a manifestation of place and creative thinking. 823 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,600 -[water running] -[birds chirping] 824 00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,000 [wind blowing] 825 00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:29,000 -[Dave] You know this book, don't you? -[Alan] Nan Shepherd, yeah, yeah. 826 00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,720 [Dave] There's a thing in it I wanted to have a wee read of. 827 00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:37,600 This is her. She's walking into… 828 00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,240 And as Robert McFarlane said, she didn't walk up a mountain, she walked into one. 829 00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:42,680 -Walked into it. -Yeah. 830 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:44,560 -So it was all-encompassing. -Yeah. 831 00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:45,680 Yes, exactly. 832 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,680 You know, what's the point of just getting to the top? 833 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,080 [Dave] You know, it's actually getting in and understanding it. 834 00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:51,520 That's… That's more important. 835 00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,080 [Alan] I probably totally agree with that, you know, because-- 836 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,200 Yeah, let's… let's climb that mountain. 837 00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,480 We've bagged a Corbett. Let's get up there, let's get down again. 838 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:00,920 -What are we missing? -Yes. 839 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,160 I'll tell you what you're missing. See there? Here we go. 840 00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:07,840 "Each of the senses is a way into what the mountain has to give". 841 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:10,960 "The palate can taste the wild berries, blaeberry, 842 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,200 wild free-born cranberry, and most subtle and sweet of all, 843 00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,120 the averin or cloudberry, a name like a dream". 844 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,240 "The juicy gold globe melts against the tongue, 845 00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,000 but who can describe a flavour?" 846 00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:24,000 "So with the scents". 847 00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,520 "All the aromatic and heady fragrances, 848 00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,760 pine and birch, bog myrtle, the spicy juniper, 849 00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:31,920 heather and the honey-sweet orchis, 850 00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,360 and the clean smell of wild thyme mean nothing at all in words". 851 00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,680 -"They are there to be smelled". -Yes. 852 00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:40,760 And you see, the first time I read that, I went, 853 00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,760 "All right, I might as well give up, 854 00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,800 for that means, like, whisky-tasting notes mean nothing", you know? 855 00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:47,040 [both laughing] 856 00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:51,880 But then, if you look at it, it's really about experiencing it. 857 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,760 It's about, when you are out and about, you live it, you pick up something, 858 00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:57,800 and I spotted you, as we were walking up the road, 859 00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:59,480 you picked a rose and you smelled the rose. 860 00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:01,440 -Yeah, that's it. -You know? And it's… 861 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,640 it's living and understanding what the aromas are around you. 862 00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:07,600 The sense is, is that it started years ago in this… 863 00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,040 Everybody was, "Oh, there are big, black mountains behind 864 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,480 and oh, it's such a barren terrain". 865 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:15,560 [Alan] No, it's not. 866 00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,840 It's fragrant. Today, the mist's down. 867 00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:23,560 There's a bit of moisture in the air. The countryside's very fragrant. 868 00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:25,720 Now, that-- 869 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:30,240 There's a coconut, the whins, the broom and things, it's passed. 870 00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,680 But you get that coconut when it's out, and… 871 00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,960 It's… It's more than that. And you're right. 872 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,640 She walked into the mountain, yes. Yeah. 873 00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:48,600 [Dave] When you're sitting there 874 00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,600 and you're standing there in your library, with all these bottles in front of you 875 00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:54,800 in all the different colours, all the different aromas, 876 00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:56,000 how do you navigate? 877 00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:57,520 What's the process? 878 00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:02,160 I'm looking for what I would describe as weight, 879 00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:07,120 intensity of aroma and defining character. 880 00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:14,960 So it could be that it's really heavy, it's very vanilla, 881 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:16,920 but there's a spike of citrus in there. 882 00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,120 [Sarah] But it could be very vanilla with not so much citrus, 883 00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,800 there's a hint of dried fruit coming in there. 884 00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,480 But sometimes, you'll find that vanilla with dried fruit, and you go, 885 00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:28,960 "Oh, where does this go?" 886 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:33,840 "It doesn't fit in either of the places for the whiskies that I'm trying to make". 887 00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,280 "Am I gonna make a new product with it?" 888 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,400 And sometimes I'm not sure, so I'll just put it to the side, 889 00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:43,720 and I'll bring it back out at a later day and say, 890 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,360 "Oh, yeah, actually, that's gonna be much better 891 00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,480 for 15-year-old or for 18-year-old", and I'll put it away entirely, 892 00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:54,560 or I'll ring-fence it for potential future new products. 893 00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:56,320 [Dave] So, I mean, it sounds… 894 00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:00,000 I suppose it can sound analytical. And it has to be analytical, you know. 895 00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,880 That's fitting, that's not fitting, etcetera, etcetera. 896 00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,440 How-- Where does the creative process come in then? 897 00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,640 If you think about an artist, 898 00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:11,400 everyone's got the ability to paint a picture. 899 00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:14,920 And everyone's got the ability to create colour. 900 00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,600 It's just unfortunate some folk will make a muddy brown. 901 00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:18,600 [both laugh] 902 00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,880 They can't do purples, they can't make it look beautiful, 903 00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:23,520 but they'll still make a picture. 904 00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:28,880 And it's the same thing for whisky-making. It's… I believe it's artistic. 905 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:34,920 It's about being able to tell a story through flavour and aroma. 906 00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:43,000 [Dave] So there's 130 distilleries operational in Scotland at the moment. 907 00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:48,560 Each one creating something which is unique to that specific place. 908 00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,840 If you talk to the real experts of whisky, 909 00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:57,080 and you say, "Well, why do two distilleries sitting next to each other 910 00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,520 make fundamentally different-flavoured spirits?" 911 00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,080 They will eventually go, "We don't know". 912 00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:07,080 There is something magic about location. 913 00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,320 There is something about specific spot 914 00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:14,440 where a distillery is that will create a flavour that is unique to that place, 915 00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:16,720 and nobody knows why that is there. 916 00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:17,920 And thank God they don't. 917 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,600 Because there is a mystery to whisky. 918 00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:22,720 There is something magical about it. 919 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:27,720 There is this ability of a distillery or a spirit from a distillery 920 00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:32,120 to somehow literally distil the place in which it's been created. 921 00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,320 [upbeat music playing] 922 00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:58,640 [whistle blows] 923 00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,600 [Dave] In the 1860s, the railway arrives in Speyside. 924 00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,840 And this is good from a whisky point of view, 925 00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,320 because it allows the whisky to get out of the region 926 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,560 and also allows coal and casks to come in. 927 00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:23,400 The railway also brings visitors, 928 00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:27,120 because by this time, the Highlands of Scotland are a destination 929 00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:28,880 for middle-class English tourists. 930 00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:30,720 And they're coming up to shoot, and to fish, 931 00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,400 and to gaze at romantic vistas. 932 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:36,600 Because Scotland is hip. 933 00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,840 So enter whisky, which now begins to gain respectability. 934 00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,320 There's a lovely account 935 00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:53,320 of drinking around this time, which describes how a toddy trolley 936 00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,160 was brought out at the end of this rather grand meal, 937 00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:03,520 allowing everyone to make a toddy to his, and it was always his, own specification. 938 00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:07,400 And it speaks of how the aromas of the whisky, and the lemon, 939 00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,520 and the honey and the hot water would mingle with that 940 00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:12,840 of the Romanée-Conti and Lafite. 941 00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,360 We've moved a long way from Highlanders sitting around 942 00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:17,960 drinking out of scallop shells. 943 00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,800 [soothing music playing] 944 00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:42,480 [music stops] 945 00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:47,520 [birds chirping] 946 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:51,280 [Dave] So Scotland changes in the 19th century. 947 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,720 You know, it ceases to be this kind of scary place, 948 00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:59,360 you know, where peculiar people, hairy people in odd dress were living, 949 00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:01,040 to become something that was fashionable. 950 00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:04,120 [Nick] Queen Victoria made Scotland famous. 951 00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,720 She had a distillery on the doorstep of Balmoral. 952 00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:11,120 John Begg, who owned Royal Lochnagar, was known as the Queen's loyal distiller. 953 00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:15,320 And his whisky actually was, for a while, very fashionable and popular in London. 954 00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,280 Because London was a window for the world. 955 00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,600 It wasn't just about what people in London saw, 956 00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:22,080 it was about all those people who came to London. 957 00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:23,920 [Dave] And who made this happen then? 958 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,040 [Nick] I mean, it's the great sort of Scottish, 959 00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:29,880 mid- to late-Victorian Scottish sense of entrepreneurship. 960 00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,800 And this… I think this belief… 961 00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,560 Because that's what you see when you really try to get inside 962 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:37,600 the heads of these people and look at what they were doing. 963 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:39,800 This belief that you could do anything you want to 964 00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:43,200 if you really tried hard enough, you know. 965 00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:47,040 I mean, just think of saying, "We're going to make a hundred cases", 966 00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,480 you know, when all you've been doing is working in a grocery shop, 967 00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:55,240 and then suddenly it goes from a hundred cases to 10,000 cases. 968 00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:56,960 And, you know, by the turn of the century, 969 00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:00,280 these companies are producing thousands and thousands 970 01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:04,800 of cases of whisky, which means raw materials, not just whisky. 971 01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:11,600 It's glass, it's cork, it's closures, it's cases, it's packing, it's transport. 972 01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:13,480 It's never been done before. 973 01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:16,040 And they're just making this stuff up on the hoof. 974 01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:24,200 Running right through this house, underneath where we're sitting here, 975 01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:27,840 is a long corridor, and out of it runs the cellar, 976 01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,440 but at the end of the corridor is the nursery. 977 01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:37,560 And when I was four and five years old, I used to hear "tinkle, tinkle, tinkle", 978 01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,560 and this was my father coming with the butler 979 01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:43,760 with the keys to the cellar, tinkle, tinkle, 980 01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,960 and I went along and helped them. 981 01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:52,240 So the butler heaved it over like this, and I stood underneath… 982 01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,120 with this, 983 01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,640 and I put it in there, 984 01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:02,080 and I held it, and glug, glug, glug, you'll see it from there. 985 01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:05,360 And as soon as that was finished, I went… [sniffs] 986 01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,240 [both laughing] 987 01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:10,600 That was my first Savoy. 988 01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,280 -That was your first Savoy? Aged four? -Yeah. Yes. 989 01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:18,640 In the days after the first war, 990 01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:25,360 gentlemen still maintained the discipline 991 01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:30,640 of there being no bottles of whisky seen anywhere in the house. 992 01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:35,160 And instead of that, you… you had these lovely little… 993 01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:37,760 -decanters. -Very beautiful. 994 01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:39,160 Later on, 995 01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,680 if you had visitors and it was found 996 01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:47,120 that some of the gentlemen wanted to drink whisky at dinner, 997 01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:49,280 this was produced. 998 01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:54,520 And this was very quietly slipped down beside the gentleman's place, 999 01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:56,560 and he gave himself a dram, 1000 01:01:56,640 --> 01:02:01,080 and then, just as quietly, it was removed and put back again. 1001 01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:05,080 So never was a bottle seen anywhere near the table. 1002 01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,160 -So it was discretion at all times. -Yes, yes. 1003 01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:10,280 And I think these are rather fun. 1004 01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:11,680 [Dave] They're rather beautiful. 1005 01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:18,280 The novelist Sir Walter Scott 1006 01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:20,920 helped to create this romantic view of Scotland. 1007 01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:25,880 By the end of the 19th century, this image had become increasingly 1008 01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:28,120 clichéd and sentimentalised. 1009 01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:30,400 Scotland had been reduced to this shorthand 1010 01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:33,280 of tartan, stags and an emptied landscape. 1011 01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,560 It's what blended whisky picked up on 1012 01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:38,880 as it began to sell itself around the world. 1013 01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:40,680 Welcome to Scotch-land. 1014 01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,600 As a result, by the start of the 20th century, 1015 01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:49,360 the close ties between Scottish culture and whisky had been loosened. 1016 01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:53,680 It was made here, but it no longer reflected the reality of the country. 1017 01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:06,280 There was a rear-guard action to try and reclaim a singular Scottish identity, 1018 01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,080 and this was fought by artists and a number of writers, 1019 01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:13,720 such as the poet Hugh MacDiarmid, and the novelist Neal M Gunn, 1020 01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,000 both of whom used whisky as a metaphor 1021 01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:19,000 for the state of the nation and Scottish identity. 1022 01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,320 I was just thinking that if you look at the way 1023 01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:45,400 that Scottish literature was in the 19th century, tail-end of the 19th century, 1024 01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:48,240 it was all very couthy, it was very sentimentalised, 1025 01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:49,320 it was all Kailyard. 1026 01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,600 And you look at the way whisky was sold 'round about the same time, 1027 01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:56,160 it was this kind of Harry Lauder, music-hall "Scotch-land" kind of thing. 1028 01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:58,680 In some ways, 1029 01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,360 I'm just wondering whether whisky, at that point, as literature did, 1030 01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,880 kind of lost touch with the culture. 1031 01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:06,000 [Ian] Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1032 01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:07,600 I mean, I do wonder about that, because that did persist… 1033 01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:11,040 That Kailyard Scottishness did persist when I was a kid. 1034 01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:14,320 The White Heather Clubon TV and all these kinds of shows 1035 01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:17,760 that were just people going "hee yeuch" and burling around in kilts 1036 01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:19,680 and then drinking a whisky in between times. 1037 01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,160 And you're going, "That is… That is a Scotland". 1038 01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:23,560 "That is a version of Scotland". 1039 01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:27,160 And it's a version that could sell itself quite successfully to tourists. 1040 01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:30,160 But as you've suggested, it was another Scotland 1041 01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:33,200 that MacDiarmid wrote about in A Drunk Man Looks at the Thistle. 1042 01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:34,880 Umm… [stuttering] 1043 01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,800 -A poem that's awash in alcohol. -Yeah, yeah. 1044 01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:41,760 [Nick] The tartan and the heather thing is a bit of a myth. 1045 01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:46,640 Okay? And it's one of those things that we hear so much about. 1046 01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:49,760 You know, the Scotch whisky industry… 1047 01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,240 Well, it needs to get away from tartan and heather. 1048 01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,480 Sure, people used Highland imagery, 1049 01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:58,560 and the reason for using Highland imagery was very important. 1050 01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,400 Blends needed to be seen as being authentic. 1051 01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:03,640 They needed to be seen as being legitimate. 1052 01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:05,120 So it wasn't as much about tartan and heather, 1053 01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:08,320 it was about the authenticity of the product at a time 1054 01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,240 when, publicly, the authenticity of the product 1055 01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:14,440 was being questioned to a great extent. 1056 01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,760 Scots went all the way around the Empire and beyond, you know, 1057 01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:19,680 and they took all of these things with them. 1058 01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:21,920 And they took tartan with them. 1059 01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:25,080 I mean, whisky didn't take tartan there, they took them there. 1060 01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:28,600 All the Scottish soldiers that were 'round the world in the 18th century 1061 01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,880 were taking tartan there, which was when it first became known. 1062 01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:34,480 I remember going to somewhere in South Africa 1063 01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:37,880 where there was a tribe who wear tartan as their costume, 1064 01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:41,160 because they were beaten in some battle by Scottish soldiers, 1065 01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:45,080 and they adopted tartan as a sign of respect for these warriors. 1066 01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:49,200 So you can't just pin tartan on to whisky. It's a much bigger thing, you know. 1067 01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:52,000 [pensive music playing] 1068 01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:17,840 [Dave] The Kingdom of Fife is this fascinating little area of Scotland. 1069 01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:20,400 It's kind of Scotland in miniature in many ways. 1070 01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:23,760 You had heavy industry, you had mining, 1071 01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:26,920 you had leather works, you got fishing as well, 1072 01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:28,000 you got agriculture, 1073 01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,920 you've got seats of learning such as St Andrews. 1074 01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:36,360 But it's also home to this extraordinarily new community 1075 01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:42,720 of artists, and musicians, and painters and distillers 1076 01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:47,440 who are out there creating something 1077 01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:49,680 really new and compelling. 1078 01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:52,480 Especially the East Neuk of Fife, 1079 01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:55,960 which is the extreme east end of Fife. 1080 01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:59,760 It… It's a place where thinkers go 1081 01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:04,480 to actually work out what they want to do. 1082 01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:07,120 It gives people a bit of space. 1083 01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:09,360 People are… are making their music 1084 01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,800 and making their art, and making their beer or whisky 1085 01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:17,920 in the way that they want to make it, rather than being beholden to the market. 1086 01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:19,480 If you like it, that's brilliant. 1087 01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:22,040 If you don't like it, well, that's unfortunate. 1088 01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:24,760 But you know what? It's what I want to do. 1089 01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:27,760 This is me expressing myself creatively. 1090 01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:32,200 [insects chirping] 1091 01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:36,600 [Dave] So you've left the high-flying corporate world, 1092 01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:40,240 and you're now here in shorts and a t-shirt, 1093 01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,000 in an empty space in the East Neuk of Fife. 1094 01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:44,840 [Stephen] I think I always wore shorts and a t-shirt. 1095 01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,000 -[Dave] That's true. -[Stephen laughs] 1096 01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:53,360 We're gonna make a Lambic-style farmhouse beer. 1097 01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:57,320 Up here, we'll have a coolship for cooling down the wort, 1098 01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:58,920 and then getting in wild yeasts. 1099 01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:02,440 The important thing is we don't… we don't clean the rafters. 1100 01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:04,520 -[Dave] Okay. -Which is not, 1101 01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,200 you know, Environmental Health like you to have everything really clean. 1102 01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,760 [laughs] So when I… when I… 1103 01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,240 You know, they were talking about us coating, 1104 01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:15,520 painting the rafters, 1105 01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:17,800 and I was saying, "No, but we want fruit flies 1106 01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:23,040 and we want beasties to come in to spread the yeast around". 1107 01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:24,960 -[Dave] You want it to be foosty. -[Stephen] Yeah. 1108 01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:28,279 So, through here, we've got your distillery. 1109 01:08:28,359 --> 01:08:30,319 Yeah, we're putting a small distillery in. 1110 01:08:30,399 --> 01:08:31,560 -[Dave] Okay. -[Stephen] We want to make 1111 01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:33,600 farmhouse-style whisky. 1112 01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:37,840 So using wild ferments from here, 1113 01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:43,760 and hopefully, we'll make quite a kind of heavy spirit. 1114 01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:46,000 [birds chirping] 1115 01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:47,160 [Dave] Are you going… 1116 01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:50,880 Are you just going back to this kind of supposed golden age of whisky? 1117 01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:53,160 [Stephen] No, no. I'm not into that. 1118 01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:57,000 But I want to make something that's really good quality that I can control. 1119 01:08:57,080 --> 01:09:01,000 And because we want to remain a small business, 1120 01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:02,160 it doesn't need to be scalable. 1121 01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:04,359 We'll fill half a cask a week. 1122 01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:07,560 And then after we've filled them, we'll leave the space in there for oxygen. 1123 01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:09,359 -[Dave] So just like that? -[Stephen] Yeah. 1124 01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:10,359 -Bit of space. -[Dave] All right. 1125 01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:13,520 Which, you know, I think people would do, if it wasn't for accountants, 1126 01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:15,760 because, you know, you've got to maximise. 1127 01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:16,840 That's an accountant's nightmare 1128 01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:18,880 that you have space that would be lying empty. 1129 01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:20,000 -Yeah. -Umm… 1130 01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:21,960 But I think that's a better thing for flavour. 1131 01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,279 [Stephen] I think that there's so many small producers. 1132 01:09:26,359 --> 01:09:30,160 The ones that survive are the ones that do things in a… 1133 01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:33,760 quite a stubborn way. 1134 01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:36,960 There's a rebelliousness as well. 1135 01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:39,040 And you see that… 1136 01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:42,760 that's a kind of common link in the people who are trying to do something different. 1137 01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:46,880 There is a great Scottish word, "thrawn", you know, which kind of means… 1138 01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:52,040 It's not stubborn, it's a determination to do what you think is right. 1139 01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,000 [Stephen] I think Francis at Daftmill is an example of that. 1140 01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:58,280 Somebody just doing things the way they want to do them. 1141 01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:04,840 So, tell us about this. 1142 01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,880 So here you are, you're a successful farmer, you're making-- 1143 01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:09,960 -Am I? -You're growing barley for… 1144 01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:11,520 Yes, I'm being nice to you, you know. 1145 01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:13,920 [Dave laughs] You're growing barley for distillers, 1146 01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,080 you've got your cattle, you've got your vegetables, 1147 01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:19,320 and then you go, one day, you wake up and you go, 1148 01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:22,360 "I know. I'm gonna make whisky". So what-- 1149 01:10:22,440 --> 01:10:24,160 -It wasn't really a "one day" thing. -[laughs] 1150 01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:28,640 It was an idea that kicked around for a long, long time, 1151 01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:31,240 but nothing ever happened with it. 1152 01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:32,920 You know, we just thought, 1153 01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:36,600 wouldn't it be nice one day to have our own distillery? 1154 01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:41,600 Because, you know, we've always drunk plenty of whisky, so… 1155 01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:44,200 [Francis] And we grew the barley that made the whisky, 1156 01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:47,200 so it would be quite nice to do the bit in the middle as well. 1157 01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:53,760 We spent a long time figuring out if… 1158 01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:56,080 you know, if it was possible to do it. 1159 01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:58,000 You know, could… could we do it? 1160 01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:00,920 Maybe we didn't think long enough on "Should we do it?" 1161 01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:02,560 Time is the main thing. 1162 01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:07,240 You know, the amount of hours that we have got to spend in the distillery, 1163 01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:10,640 compared to spend on the tractor seat. 1164 01:11:11,480 --> 01:11:12,880 So, you know… [clears throat] 1165 01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:18,240 The farm pays the wages at the moment, so it takes priority. 1166 01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:21,920 We can only make whisky in the… in the quieter times, 1167 01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:23,760 in mid-summer and mid-winter. 1168 01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:27,320 Spring and autumn is busy times on the farm, so… 1169 01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:30,960 [Dave] And you've also been very… 1170 01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:36,600 determined in only releasing the whisky when you felt it was ready. 1171 01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:39,560 I remember I've pestered you for years, sort of saying, "Come on!" 1172 01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:42,400 "When are you going to release it, your first whisky?" 1173 01:11:42,480 --> 01:11:46,080 And it's only just come out, and that's, what, 15 years after you started, so… 1174 01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:47,640 Why that way? 1175 01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:49,720 [Francis] It wasn't ready. 1176 01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:53,800 Things take time. 1177 01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:54,840 [Dave] So it's your whisky. 1178 01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:56,760 -You're making it to the style you want. -Yeah, yeah. Yes. 1179 01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:59,200 [Dave] And it'll be ready when you say it's ready. 1180 01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:00,120 -That's pretty much it. -[Dave] Yeah. 1181 01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:10,200 The smell in here is absolutely amazing. 1182 01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:13,600 You know, you just open that door, and this wonderful sweet waft of… 1183 01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,560 [Francis] Bit of wood and damp earth and… 1184 01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:19,760 the magic that is a warehouse. 1185 01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:22,880 -[Dave] You never tire of this, do you? -[Francis] No. 1186 01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:25,960 [Dave] When you're out in the field, I mean, do you kind of-- 1187 01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:29,240 Are you surrounded by different smells? Are you consciously smelling things? 1188 01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:30,400 [Francis] Yeah, you know. 1189 01:12:30,480 --> 01:12:34,360 You know, like the harvest times, straw has a wonderful smell, 1190 01:12:34,440 --> 01:12:36,760 and you sometimes pick that up in a whisky. 1191 01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:40,080 You come around here and you think, 1192 01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:42,600 "Wow, this is an ancient old traditional distillery", 1193 01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:45,840 but actually, what you're doing is making it in a… 1194 01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:50,200 in a true traditional model, but in a 21st century way. 1195 01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:51,640 Yeah. But it's the same. 1196 01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:53,240 [Francis] If you want to go back to the past, 1197 01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:55,680 which bit of the past do you want to go back to? 1198 01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:58,240 Because it always changed back then as well. 1199 01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:00,440 Things have always changed, but… 1200 01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:03,880 sometimes things get better, sometimes not. 1201 01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:09,040 The seasonal aspect of it is… is very traditional. 1202 01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:13,640 You know, farm… farmers made whisky when… when they weren't farming. 1203 01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:15,400 You know, distilling is like curling. 1204 01:13:15,480 --> 01:13:18,160 You know, it's a winter sport best done by farmers. 1205 01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:21,520 So that aspect is… is very traditional, 1206 01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:25,400 but we're not afraid to use an electric motor, 1207 01:13:25,480 --> 01:13:28,000 if it makes life easier for you. 1208 01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:31,080 You know, we're not-- It's not a working museum. 1209 01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:35,880 We try to make a whisky 1210 01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:40,400 that sort of represents the area that we're making it in, you know. 1211 01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:43,640 We don't have big hills 1212 01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:46,120 or rugged coastline or what not. 1213 01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:48,720 You know, it's a soft and gentle sort of landscape. 1214 01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:54,400 So, the whisky that we are making kinda matches that, I think, anyway. 1215 01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:59,760 When you're trying to sell it to someone else, 1216 01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:01,960 you know, it seems a bit incongruous to say, 1217 01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:04,800 "This is a really wild whisky. Try this". 1218 01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:07,720 "Where are you from?" "Oh, the Lowlands of Fife". 1219 01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:24,360 [Dave] I wanna talk more about the East Neuk. 1220 01:14:24,440 --> 01:14:26,400 -It fascinates me. -[Stephen] Yeah. 1221 01:14:26,480 --> 01:14:30,360 There seems to just be this incredible community of like-minded people, 1222 01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:34,200 thrawn people, but creative people who just seem to have congregated. 1223 01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:39,280 You get musicians and artists and… 1224 01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:41,440 dreamers, I guess. 1225 01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:44,320 -That's… That's… -[Dave] Yeah, but why here? 1226 01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:50,000 Why can't dreamers exist in the Borders or Edinburgh or wherever? 1227 01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:53,480 [Stephen] It's… It's that social thing of the people being pushed to the… 1228 01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,440 the physical fringes of society anyway. 1229 01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:57,680 So you get, umm… 1230 01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:01,000 What happens… What always happens 1231 01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:03,640 in the history on the fringes of the coast, 1232 01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:07,800 where there's less kind of-- there are fewer rules. 1233 01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:11,480 There isn't employment, so people have to do their own thing. 1234 01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,440 And I think that probably lends itself to creativity. 1235 01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:18,760 Do you know, the same thing's probably happening in Spain and Greece just now. 1236 01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:21,400 Places that have gone through really bad times. 1237 01:15:21,480 --> 01:15:24,960 And then, young people start getting more creative 1238 01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:28,680 and start working out, "Okay, we don't have a natural job to go into". 1239 01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:30,360 [Dave] You've gotta make stuff. 1240 01:15:30,440 --> 01:15:31,520 [Stephen] Yeah, you've got to make things. 1241 01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:36,880 [James] I don't consider what I do to be traditional at all. 1242 01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:38,280 I mean, I do sing traditional songs 1243 01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:43,440 and I love a lot of traditional music, as I've said, but I write songs. 1244 01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:45,920 You know, I write songs about my belly button. 1245 01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:50,080 It's pop music. It's just not very popular, what I do, you know. 1246 01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:53,200 ♪ My hands around your waist ♪ 1247 01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:59,040 ♪ Ignoring the usual ♪ 1248 01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:02,080 ♪ Commotion of the touch ♪ 1249 01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:10,520 ♪ 'Cause you mean you've been feeling At least a token of my offering ♪ 1250 01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:16,600 ♪ And the drink or whatever May smooth us through the rest ♪ 1251 01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:22,400 [James] As an artist, it's important for me to totally disassociate myself 1252 01:16:22,480 --> 01:16:24,680 and not consider what anyone else is doing, 1253 01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:27,800 and just concentrate on what's in my head and getting that out. 1254 01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:29,200 And I think that is another… 1255 01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:31,600 Great thing that Cellardyke gives 1256 01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:33,800 is that there's hardly anything going on here. 1257 01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:36,200 So, you know, I can't go and say, 1258 01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:39,800 "You know, when Kate Bush did her… did her shows just a few years ago, 1259 01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:41,520 she didn't do any in Cellardyke". 1260 01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:43,080 -[Dave laughs] -You know? [laughs] 1261 01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:47,440 [James] So that is another reason. It takes you out of being… 1262 01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:52,520 a working professional musician, 1263 01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:57,000 which is obviously a valuable thing to just being a musician, an artist, 1264 01:16:57,080 --> 01:16:59,840 somebody expressing themselves through music. 1265 01:16:59,920 --> 01:17:01,320 And because the whole… 1266 01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:05,600 the whole city is so far away, 1267 01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:08,720 it is possible to divorce oneself from that 1268 01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:12,600 and just get back to the… the soul of it. 1269 01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:20,760 ♪ We talk about the night And the company we came ♪ 1270 01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:29,760 ♪ We hear the advice of our conscience And our morals ♪ 1271 01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:32,840 [James] In the old days, I used to get asked, I mean, I still get asked, 1272 01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:36,080 "Do you think where you're from affects the sound of your music?" 1273 01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:38,280 And I used to say no. But I think… 1274 01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:43,200 I think it has to affect anyone creative doing creative things. 1275 01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:45,920 Their area has to affect them, you know. 1276 01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:50,840 ♪ At this time tomorrow ♪ 1277 01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:07,360 [Stephen] I don't view booze as being any different from any of the other arts or-- 1278 01:18:07,440 --> 01:18:10,960 You know, booze, music, painting, 1279 01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:14,280 it's all just one creative thing. 1280 01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:17,000 The majority of folk who do stuff… 1281 01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:22,440 So the majority of people who work in whisky or do the art 1282 01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:26,280 or make the music they are making, 1283 01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:31,240 they're constricted-- you're constricted by either a company 1284 01:18:31,320 --> 01:18:33,080 and a company's budgets or shareholders, 1285 01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:38,880 or you're constricted by a record label and their… their commercial demands, 1286 01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:41,000 or you're constricted by a publishing company 1287 01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:44,600 and what they want to make sure is commercially relevant. 1288 01:18:45,480 --> 01:18:47,120 And I think that's 90 percent of the people. 1289 01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:48,920 And I think the… the… 1290 01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:54,080 What they do, from a creative level, is slightly curbed. 1291 01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:57,480 So they do… they can do an amazing job, but it's slightly curbed, 1292 01:18:57,560 --> 01:18:59,880 and so they don't fully get to where they need to be. 1293 01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:04,960 I think there's then maybe, like, say, ten percent. I don't know. 1294 01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:08,520 Five percent, one percent, a small percentage of people, 1295 01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:13,040 who are-- have a kind of different approach to it, 1296 01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:16,440 where they collect things, 1297 01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:21,400 or they collect knowledge or instruments 1298 01:19:21,480 --> 01:19:23,200 or ideas, 1299 01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:26,000 and they know what to do with those things, 1300 01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:27,760 they know how they fit together properly. 1301 01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:31,320 And great… great blenders do that, and great artists do that. 1302 01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:34,000 And then from that, they create something special. 1303 01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:36,280 [acoustic music playing] 1304 01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:41,880 [James] One of the biggest moments for me was finding a CD 1305 01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:44,320 -by a lady called Anne Briggs. -[Dave] Mm-hmm. 1306 01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:47,000 And she looked so bonnie on the cover and I thought, I'll get that. 1307 01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:49,200 And just falling in love with it. 1308 01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:51,400 Absolutely falling in love with this… 1309 01:19:52,440 --> 01:19:54,960 the lyric, and the voice, and the… 1310 01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:58,360 and the way she put things over, and the kind of… 1311 01:19:59,920 --> 01:20:02,600 despair in her… in her sound. 1312 01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:04,280 [James] So Anne Briggs would tell the story, 1313 01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:06,720 and then the gap would just be right, it was just… 1314 01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:09,920 It was perfect, it was serene. It was just beautiful. 1315 01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:13,640 And the way she sang the stories, it was just so… 1316 01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:19,800 There was just sort of… love to them, 1317 01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:23,600 but not over-emotive, not over-pretty, 1318 01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:26,280 and just gorgeous. 1319 01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:30,840 ♪ And the river is all the music ♪ 1320 01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:34,760 ♪ I would ever have ♪ 1321 01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:40,040 ♪ A long, long day since… ♪ 1322 01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:41,760 [Dave] Anne Briggs is amazing. 1323 01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:44,160 I first came across her 1324 01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:48,040 and Scottish singers like Dick Gaughan in the 1980s. 1325 01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:49,720 This wasn'tThe White Heather Club 1326 01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:52,360 and all those couthy wee songs we were brought up with. 1327 01:20:52,440 --> 01:20:56,720 It wasn't what we were used to thinking traditional Scottish music was about. 1328 01:20:57,440 --> 01:21:01,240 And at the same time, writers like Alasdair Gray, James Kelman and others 1329 01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:05,280 were starting to write about our Scotland and using our language. 1330 01:21:06,520 --> 01:21:08,440 These singers and writers were incredibly important 1331 01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:11,760 because they gave my generation and the generation after it 1332 01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:14,560 encouragement to do things on their own terms. 1333 01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:17,920 We began to look to Scotland and not London as a point of reference. 1334 01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:21,400 And as a result, a new creative movement was born. 1335 01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:25,160 The one thing that was missing from it was whisky. 1336 01:21:25,240 --> 01:21:27,040 [acoustic music playing] 1337 01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:53,440 ♪ Whisky ♪ 1338 01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:56,960 ♪ Whisky is my name ♪ 1339 01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:04,720 ♪ Rollin', rollin' around ♪ 1340 01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:06,720 [Stephen] The Scots Cellaris a great book. 1341 01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:08,560 [Dave] Yeah, I love that. I love that… 1342 01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:10,480 The reason… One reason I love that is 1343 01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:16,080 it tells the truth about whisky in terms of how it was being prepared. 1344 01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:18,000 Yeah, I thought-- I'm sure I've got it. 1345 01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:21,080 You know, you think, oh, whisky cocktails was a new thing, and look… 1346 01:22:22,440 --> 01:22:24,080 These are old, old recipes. 1347 01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:25,400 ♪ No more air ♪ 1348 01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:30,160 Do you want to try this one? You have to neck that. 1349 01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:32,680 ♪ Whisky, I love you ♪ 1350 01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:35,920 And what's this one here with all the dials in it? 1351 01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:40,040 Yeah, that was a prototype, which was conductive ink. 1352 01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:42,560 So you touched the label, 1353 01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:46,240 and then you heard a story, and it's sat on a plinth, 1354 01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:49,040 and as the… the whisky went down, 1355 01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:52,360 the stories got a little bit more bawdy. 1356 01:22:52,440 --> 01:22:54,080 -[Dave chuckles] -Is that the right word? Drunk. 1357 01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:56,360 [laughs] 1358 01:22:56,440 --> 01:22:58,320 ♪ You knew now… ♪ 1359 01:22:58,400 --> 01:22:59,560 [Stephen] Floyd on Hangovers. 1360 01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:01,760 -[chuckles] -It's a great book. 1361 01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:06,160 This was a project about… 1362 01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:09,120 [sighs] It was really… 1363 01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:13,000 Like, it was about a band that played on its own. 1364 01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:16,280 So, you know, and was influenced by different things. 1365 01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:21,000 So it was influenced by… by how popular it was, 1366 01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:24,360 and it was about kind of the ego of the band. 1367 01:23:24,440 --> 01:23:28,800 So we created a whisky that you could drink with it. 1368 01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:32,040 You know, as a whisky company, the one thing you can do is kind of… 1369 01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:36,440 you can try and stimulate artists to create things. 1370 01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:40,880 And you can make a whisky that can go with it or that can go alongside it. 1371 01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:44,840 You can't-- There's a certain bit where you can't really get any further. 1372 01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:49,520 As a whisky company, you can't make art or you can't make music, 1373 01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:53,720 but you can encourage the artists and musicians to do it. 1374 01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:56,840 But I still don't quite understand how it worked, though. 1375 01:23:56,920 --> 01:23:58,400 -No, neither do I. -All right. 1376 01:23:58,480 --> 01:24:00,480 -[Dave and Stephen laugh] -[Dave speaking in Irish] 1377 01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:03,040 [pensive music playing] 1378 01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:11,440 [film camera rolling] 1379 01:24:13,440 --> 01:24:16,600 [Dave] Whisky was big brands, you know, and it was old men, 1380 01:24:16,680 --> 01:24:20,800 and this real, kind of hardcore puritanical view of what whisky was. 1381 01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:23,880 Undiluted, strong male drink. 1382 01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:28,360 And I think what happens in the 1990s onwards, 1383 01:24:28,440 --> 01:24:32,720 when single malt begins to really build itself, 1384 01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:36,640 and people begin to talk about flavour rather than brand, 1385 01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:41,480 talk about place rather than advertising, 1386 01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:43,680 you begin to see 1387 01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:46,920 a new generation beginning to become interested in it. 1388 01:24:47,440 --> 01:24:52,560 The links between it and us in our daily lives 1389 01:24:52,640 --> 01:24:55,400 suddenly become more obvious. 1390 01:24:56,280 --> 01:25:01,080 Links that had, I think, really been lost for… for generations, 1391 01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:04,280 for a long, long time, are suddenly beginning to be re-established. 1392 01:25:04,360 --> 01:25:06,200 And as a result of this, 1393 01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:10,520 so you then have a new generation of bartenders, 1394 01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:14,040 you have a new generation of distillers as well, 1395 01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:16,240 who begin to look at whisky in a different way. 1396 01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:20,160 Let… Let's mix with it, let's drink it in different ways, 1397 01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:23,320 let's find these links which exist. 1398 01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:26,800 It can actually be exciting and innovative once again. 1399 01:25:32,240 --> 01:25:33,800 [indistinct chatter] 1400 01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:36,560 [Ryan] So, I'm Ryan Chetiyawardana, or Mr Lyan, 1401 01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:39,240 and I'm a bartender based in London. 1402 01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:40,960 [Dave] But at heart, you're a Scot somehow. 1403 01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:43,600 Yeah, adopted Scot. I think there's always that connection with it, 1404 01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:47,400 and it still feels like home, coming back to Edinburgh. 1405 01:25:47,480 --> 01:25:51,480 [Dave] You're noted and highly-praised, and justifiably highly-praised, 1406 01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:53,080 for being one of the most innovative 1407 01:25:53,160 --> 01:25:55,360 and forward-thinking bartenders on the planet. 1408 01:25:55,440 --> 01:25:58,680 [Ryan] We don't drink the same way that our ancestors did. 1409 01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:02,720 You know, not everybody is gonna be able to pick up a neat whisky 1410 01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:06,400 and dissect the flavours and be able to approach that. 1411 01:26:06,480 --> 01:26:08,440 Really, it's not that accessible to a lot of people. 1412 01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:10,880 So it's trying to find new ways of connecting people, 1413 01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:13,680 but it's also about representing modern Scotland. 1414 01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:15,800 You can travel through the Highlands and it… 1415 01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:18,320 it does echo those wonderful pictures of the past, 1416 01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:21,280 but there is also a very different side of the country that, 1417 01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:23,440 you know, is about the new culture of it. 1418 01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:26,760 The music, the people, the art, and that's being reflected in the spirit. 1419 01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:28,200 You know, it's a spirit of the people. 1420 01:26:28,280 --> 01:26:31,040 I think what I'm most interested in, from your perspective, 1421 01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:32,840 is how do we move things forward? 1422 01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:35,520 To innovate, you don't need to forget the past. 1423 01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:37,960 You just need to be able to continue to evolve 1424 01:26:38,040 --> 01:26:40,200 and keep some of those things that are still relevant, 1425 01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:42,320 and… and preserve that stuff as well. 1426 01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:44,120 And I think that's where you start to understand 1427 01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:47,000 not everything then will become etched in history. 1428 01:26:47,080 --> 01:26:49,440 You know, some of the new innovations will die, 1429 01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:51,640 but, you know, some of them will also become 1430 01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:55,160 part of the kind of next generation's tradition. 1431 01:26:58,200 --> 01:27:02,560 [Dave] So that kind of cultural aspect of Scotch, that cultural terroir… 1432 01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:05,360 -Yeah. -…is real and valid? 1433 01:27:05,440 --> 01:27:09,080 I'm desperate for someone to say yes, otherwise I've wasted the entire film. 1434 01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:11,760 -It's-- -[Ryan and Dave laughing] 1435 01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:14,640 No, it's… It is. It's the cultural terroir of it. 1436 01:27:14,720 --> 01:27:17,440 Any artistic endeavour is a communication. 1437 01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:19,280 It's trying to find a way of connecting with people. 1438 01:27:19,360 --> 01:27:21,400 And… And whisky is one of those things. 1439 01:27:21,480 --> 01:27:26,000 And I think it's… it's been very scared of losing its crown 1440 01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:28,560 and kind of opening up some of those new conversations 1441 01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:31,160 and trying to find new ways to connect with people. 1442 01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:34,040 And all those other things have moved on, you know. [stammers] 1443 01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:36,040 All of the other creative endeavours have-- 1444 01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:37,800 You know, Scotland's a hotbed for it. 1445 01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:40,160 It's incredible to see all those things happening here. 1446 01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:43,440 And they have a real, direct, honest connection 1447 01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:44,760 with people around the world, 1448 01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:49,240 yet it's still trying to kind of falsify this old image, 1449 01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:51,600 whereas that old image can remain part of it, 1450 01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:54,160 it just needs to also represent the modern way with it as well. 1451 01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:57,520 [bar music playing] 1452 01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:26,320 [indistinct chatter] 1453 01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:33,600 [Dave] Over the years, I've come to believe 1454 01:28:33,680 --> 01:28:36,320 that whisky is a cultural product. 1455 01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:38,480 It doesn't sit apart from people's lives. 1456 01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:40,720 It's part and parcel of who we are. 1457 01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:44,960 You know, Scotland's conditions, its geology, its terroir, its weather, 1458 01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:46,520 dictate that barley grows here, 1459 01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:49,040 and that's why we make whisky to begin with. 1460 01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:51,720 And the reason-- And because we make whisky here, 1461 01:28:51,800 --> 01:28:53,920 and because of the way it's been drunk and sung about 1462 01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:56,240 and talked about and written about over the years, 1463 01:28:56,320 --> 01:28:58,240 it's become part and parcel of who we are. 1464 01:28:59,440 --> 01:29:01,560 We've been making whisky for a long time, and we make great whisky. 1465 01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:05,440 And… And over the next year, I think there's liable to be 140 distilleries 1466 01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:06,960 operational in Scotland. 1467 01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:09,920 So, great, boom times for scotch. 1468 01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:11,920 And that's good. That's a great challenge. 1469 01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:15,440 And I think what we have to do, and I don't wish to preach here, 1470 01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:17,080 but I think what we have to do collectively, 1471 01:29:17,160 --> 01:29:21,000 as people who love whisky, is not just talk about product, 1472 01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:24,880 not just talk about our heads and be analytical about it, 1473 01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:27,880 but actually start talking about whisky from our hearts. 1474 01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:30,160 Because it is part of who we are. 1475 01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:34,440 And it's been part of who we are as Scots for hundreds and hundreds of years. 1476 01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:37,360 It's what music's been about and it's what art has been about. 1477 01:29:37,440 --> 01:29:41,200 And that interface, that linking together of everything, 1478 01:29:41,280 --> 01:29:43,640 is vitally important to moving whisky forward. 1479 01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:48,680 ♪ Well, oot o' the East There cam a hard man ♪ 1480 01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:52,440 ♪ Oh-ho, a' the way frae Brigton ♪ 1481 01:29:52,520 --> 01:29:56,880 ♪ Ah-ha, glory hallelujah ♪ 1482 01:29:56,960 --> 01:30:01,640 ♪ Cod liver oil and the orange juice ♪ 1483 01:30:03,640 --> 01:30:07,800 ♪ He went intae a pub And he cam oot paralytic ♪ 1484 01:30:07,880 --> 01:30:11,760 ♪ Oh-ho, VP and cider ♪ 1485 01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:16,120 ♪ Ah-ha, what a hell of a mixture ♪ 1486 01:30:16,200 --> 01:30:20,760 ♪ Cod liver oil and the orange juice ♪ 1487 01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:27,000 ♪ Does this bus go Tae the Dennistoun Palais? ♪ 1488 01:30:27,080 --> 01:30:30,880 ♪ Oh-ho, I'm lookin' fur a lumber ♪ 1489 01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:35,320 ♪ Ah-ha, glory hallelujah ♪ 1490 01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:39,520 ♪ Cod liver oil and the orange juice ♪ 1491 01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:50,200 ♪ In the dancin', he met Hairy Mary ♪ 1492 01:30:50,280 --> 01:30:54,120 ♪ Oh-ho, the flooer o' the Gorbals ♪ 1493 01:30:54,200 --> 01:30:58,480 ♪ Ah-ha, glory hallelujah ♪ 1494 01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:02,080 ♪ Cod liver oil and the orange juice ♪ 1495 01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:06,080 ♪ He says, "Hey, Mary, are you dancing?" ♪ 1496 01:31:06,160 --> 01:31:10,240 ♪ "And oh, no It's just the way I'm staunin'" ♪ 1497 01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:14,520 ♪ Ah-ha, glory hallelujah ♪ 1498 01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:18,120 ♪ Cod liver oil and the orange juice ♪ 1499 01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:24,000 ♪ He says, "Hey, Mary You're one in a million, oh-ho" ♪ 1500 01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:26,200 ♪ "So's yer fucking chances" ♪ 1501 01:31:26,280 --> 01:31:30,600 ♪ Ah-ha, glory hallelujah ♪ 1502 01:31:30,680 --> 01:31:34,160 ♪ Cod liver oil and the orange juice ♪ 1503 01:31:34,240 --> 01:31:38,200 ♪ He says, "Hey, Mary, can I run ye hame?" ♪ 1504 01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:42,360 ♪ Oh-ho, I've got a pair of sandshoes ♪ 1505 01:31:42,440 --> 01:31:46,520 ♪ "Ah, ha-ha, ye're hell of a funny" ♪ 1506 01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:51,200 ♪ Cod liver oil and the orange juice ♪ 1507 01:31:57,040 --> 01:32:01,200 ♪ Well, doon through the back-close An' intae the dunny ♪ 1508 01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:05,200 ♪ Oh-ho, it wasnae fur the first time ♪ 1509 01:32:05,280 --> 01:32:09,400 ♪ Ah-ha, glory hallelujah ♪ 1510 01:32:09,480 --> 01:32:12,960 ♪ Cod liver oil and the orange juice ♪ 1511 01:32:13,040 --> 01:32:17,120 ♪ And then came her mammy Goin' tae the cludgie ♪ 1512 01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:21,000 ♪ Oh-ho, I buggered off sharpish ♪ 1513 01:32:21,080 --> 01:32:25,360 ♪ Ah-ha, glory hallelujah ♪ 1514 01:32:25,440 --> 01:32:29,560 ♪ Cod liver oil and the orange juice ♪ 1515 01:32:35,800 --> 01:32:40,000 ♪ Hairy Mary's lookin' for her hard man ♪ 1516 01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:43,840 ♪ Oh-ho, he's jined the Foreign Legion ♪ 1517 01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:48,160 ♪ Ah-ha, Sahara unner ra camels ♪ 1518 01:32:48,240 --> 01:32:51,720 ♪ Cod liver oil and the orange juice ♪ 1519 01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:55,920 ♪ Then Hairy Mary's had a little baby ♪ 1520 01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:59,560 ♪ Oh-ho, her faither's in the army ♪ 1521 01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:04,080 ♪ Ah-ha, glory hallelujah ♪ 1522 01:33:04,160 --> 01:33:08,160 ♪ Cod liver oil and the orange juice ♪ 1523 01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:18,480 ♪ From oot o' the East Over came a hard man ♪ 1524 01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:22,600 ♪ Oh-ho, a' the way frae Brigton ♪ 1525 01:33:22,680 --> 01:33:27,040 ♪ Ah-ha, glory hallelujah ♪ 1526 01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:33,040 ♪ Cod liver oil and the orange juice ♪ 1527 01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:35,360 [crowd cheering, applauding] 127953

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