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The Brady Bunch
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The Brady Bunch
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That's the way
we became the Brady Bunch
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If you drive from
Redwood City to Half Moon Bay,
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you go on Highway 92,
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which goes up over
the Santa Cruz Mountains.
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And pass this site
where Susan's body was found.
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As it happens,
the cold air from the ocean
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runs into the hot
air from the valley
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and they hit
and it causes a fog.
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To the point
where you're driving up
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to the top of the mountain
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from Foster City or Redwood City
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and it's bright sun
and you get to the top of it,
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literally at the top where
this convection has happened.
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And it turns dark
and I don't mean just fog.
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It turns black.
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I remember one night
driving back from a rough day
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in the trial and going up.
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It was gradual,
getting darker, darker, darker--
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What human
beings do to each other.
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The trauma that children suffer.
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And I get to
the top and it's pitch black
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and I go,
"To hell with this, man."
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I turned around,
went back into the sunlight.
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- Prostitution.
- You became a prostitute.
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I have to look at it now
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and see that I was
trained from the earliest age
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that my value
was in my sexuality.
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And...
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I can look back now and see
that there is a certain amount
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of power in being sexual
when you're a prostitute.
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Because you say when,
you say how long,
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you say yes, you say no.
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As a child,
I never had that luxury.
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And so it's a really warped
way to view the situation.
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But I can see now
how well it fits together.
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Studies show that
the vast majority of sex workers
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were sexually
abused as children.
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It's the rule,
not the exception.
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I've talked with sex
workers who say, you know,
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"At that moment,
I feel powerful.
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"You know,
I'm in charge. I call the shots.
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"I tell him what he
can do and what he can't.
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"I get paid for it."
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And you know, you can look at it
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from another
point of view and say,
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it's sad and it's degrading.
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But in a way,
they kind of keep reprocessing
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the experience as
though they're in control.
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The memories,
as Eileen described them,
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definitely did not
come out all at once.
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A series of months went by
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and different pieces
of the memory would come up.
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And a lot of that involved
sexual misconduct by her father,
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by George Franklin.
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I thought it was a very
sad thing to have to grow up
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under those circumstances
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that you had to go to
bed at night and you know,
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that your father
is going to come in
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and do something
very harmful to you.
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And it made me very sad because
they were very sweet girls.
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We would just talk
about kind of nothing,
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little children things.
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And I would
always give her a treat.
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At that time it
was Tootsie Pops.
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It was like a suckle on a stick,
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but it was a Tootsie pop.
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And in the midst
of their conversation,
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they would always say,
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"Our dolls come alive at night."
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As an incest survivor,
I fit the profile very well.
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I became
heavily involved in drugs
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and resorted to prostitution.
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I was arrested for prostitution
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and pled guilty
because I was guilty.
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And in my naivete,
that's what I believe
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you're supposed to do.
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And I was very
concerned that as a mother,
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if this arrest came out,
it would scar my children.
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But keeping
the murder of Susan Nason quiet
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was far worse
than having people know
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that I had a bad past.
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There was just a lot of things
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that were very consistent
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with her being
emotionally traumatized,
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having childhood trauma,
psychic trauma,
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very intelligent woman.
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Very capable, very articulate.
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She never finished high school.
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She had all sorts of other,
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you know, what people
might call failures in her life.
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There was
a picture that was forming
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of someone whose adolescence
had really gone off the rails.
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We had to
explain to the jury how,
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given the life that she
lived behind the closed doors
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of the Franklin household,
what she was exposed to
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at the hands of her father.
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This particular child
repressed the memory
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of this particular day.
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Well, I think first of all,
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there is,
what kind of person is there?
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But I think also how
repeated is the event?
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Dr. Terr's testimony,
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which was very
crucial for the prosecution--
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She was talking
about how a repressed memory
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- can occur in a person.
- And it can do from trauma.
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But she really made the point,
it requires multiple trauma.
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Once it happens a lot,
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you start,
you start developing defenses.
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You figure out
a way to anticipate.
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You say, "I'm going
to pretend I'm invisible,"
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as Eileen did.
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In psychiatry, we call
these things "dissociation",
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which is to separate
yourself from what's going on,
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to feel unreal or to
feel as though you're not there.
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Or to feel as though
the world is not real.
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Terr comes in as
a highly respected psychiatrist
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who has studied trauma
and its effect on children.
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She articulated a theory.
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one incident
unlikely to be repressed.
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multiple
traumas likely to be repressed.
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When the person is
overwhelmed repeatedly,
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they actually learn to repress.
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I felt like
the jury needs to know
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that Eileen
herself was molested by him
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because it will help
them better understand
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how and why Eileen might
repress the memory of the murder
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that she had witnessed.
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Ultimately, the judge agreed
that for that limited purpose,
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Eileen would be
allowed to testify
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to the sexual molestations
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that were committed
by her father against her.
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The vast majority
of my memories of sexual abuse
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came after
the memories of the murder.
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I was in shock.
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I couldn't believe
that there were more things
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that I had forgotten.
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I had never heard the word,
"repressed," before.
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I thought, "How can I possibly
forget all these things
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"that happened to me?"
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The memory's there,
it's just very deep down
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so that suddenly
the memory starts coming
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and it can come in bits.
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Or it can come
in the whole piece.
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Lenore Terr had
a theory that she was pushing.
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If you're traumatized once,
you'll remember it.
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But if you're traumatized
over and over and over and over,
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then you're going to repress it.
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It goes against
everything we know about memory,
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which basically says the more
times something happens,
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the better your memory,
not the worse.
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But in any event,
that's why the story came out
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that Eileen had not
only repressed her memory
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for this particular murder,
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but she'd also
repressed a whole bunch
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of other traumatic memories,
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sexual abuse ostensibly
done to her by her father
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and other men who joined in.
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And so now you had
the collection of traumas
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that could be repressed
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and fit with Dr. Terr's
Type one, Type two theory.
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I thought, this is so fishy.
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There's just something
fishy about this whole story.
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Eileen tells
the story in which her father
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held her down while
another man rapes her.
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When she first told
the story to the prosecution
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and which was recorded
and given to the defense,
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her rapist was a Black man.
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In the trial, that story changed
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and the Black man
became a white man
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and the white man
became her godfather.
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At one point, she's remembering
that her father held her down
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while a Black man raped her.
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Later on, that story changes
and it's her white godfather
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who was raping her.
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Well, why did you
say it was a Black man?
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Because, well, the white
godfather was raping her.
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There was a Jimi Hendrix
poster on the wall.
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She said, "I was looking
at a poster of Jimi Hendrix
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"and I superimposed
that on my rapist.
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"and thought that was the Black
man that was raping me."
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That shows
the way her memory works,
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in the way
things can shift around
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as time goes on and she
learns to explain things.
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It undermined
the credibility of her memories.
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I remember arguing to the jury
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that it's a good
thing that Jimi Hendrix
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isn't on trial here today
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because based on her testimony,
you could convict.
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There were definite gaps
in her recounting that event.
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That was a piece of her story,
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her testimony that the defense
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obviously would
want to show to the jury.
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Like what kind of memory
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is this that changes,
that evolves?
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But I think we all know
that if we try to reach back
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and try to remember something,
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we may not remember
all of it accurately.
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But the essence
of what we remember is...
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truth.
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Unfortunately,
with rape and with sexual abuse,
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there is no witness there.
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Usually it's just you,
the person it's happening to.
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One person, I don't care
if it's Mother Teresa.
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One person's word
will not carry the day.
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Jurors need more.
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They need corroboration.
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Whatever it may be, we needed
to help them believe her.
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There was one woman
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that George Franklin
had a relationship with,
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and I believe she'd been
interviewed over the phone.
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I just had a gut feeling
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I wanted to meet
this woman myself.
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Female intuition.
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We went down, we met her.
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It was the two
detectives and myself.
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She said I never recognized
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any abnormal behaviors in him,
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or he certainly never
admitted to killing a child.
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And I finally just said,
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"Well, how did the
relationship end? Just curious."
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She says, "Oh, I broke
up with him after he told me
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00:16:03,712 --> 00:16:06,632
he'd had sex with his daughter."
225
00:16:13,263 --> 00:16:16,433
Eileen grew up in
a picture perfect neighborhood
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in Foster City, California.
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00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,689
She is the middle daughter
in a family of five children.
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00:16:21,730 --> 00:16:25,693
Neighbors describe them as
a typical all-American family.
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Mother, a housewife.
230
00:16:27,528 --> 00:16:30,531
Father, a fireman.
231
00:17:03,355 --> 00:17:05,107
George Jr. was the only boy.
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00:17:05,149 --> 00:17:08,986
He was not a bulky,
tough looking kid.
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I've heard
several of the kids tell me
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of an incident more than once
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where the senior George
picked the junior George up
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00:17:17,369 --> 00:17:21,040
by the head
and threw him into a wall.
237
00:17:23,250 --> 00:17:27,921
We interviewed her sisters,
her brother.
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00:17:27,963 --> 00:17:30,174
They were difficult to work with
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00:17:30,215 --> 00:17:33,802
because they feared
their father, even as adults.
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00:17:33,844 --> 00:17:37,431
His family were
literally terrified of the man.
241
00:17:37,473 --> 00:17:44,730
Franklin was a totally
controlling, violent, angry man.
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He was a drinker and he took
out all of that on his kids.
243
00:17:52,446 --> 00:17:54,239
Kate Franklin told the story
244
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about how she had
violated some rule.
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And he said to her,
"You're going to get it."
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00:18:01,747 --> 00:18:05,167
So Kate called
the police and she said,
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00:18:05,209 --> 00:18:09,254
"My father has threatened
to beat me up when I come home."
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I felt for them.
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I felt great empathy for them
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because they had
all in their own ways,
251
00:19:05,811 --> 00:19:07,646
gone on about their lives.
252
00:19:07,688 --> 00:19:10,399
And I don't think
any of them had much,
253
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,901
if any, relationship
with their father.
254
00:19:12,943 --> 00:19:17,072
When this happened,
everything blew open for them
255
00:19:17,114 --> 00:19:19,241
and everything
that had happened to them
256
00:19:19,283 --> 00:19:20,659
in their childhoods.
257
00:19:20,701 --> 00:19:22,411
It was horrible for them
258
00:19:22,452 --> 00:19:25,539
but because they
were part of the story
259
00:19:25,581 --> 00:19:29,042
there was no avoiding it.
260
00:19:29,084 --> 00:19:33,380
I was the sexual assault
investigator for the unit.
261
00:19:33,422 --> 00:19:36,884
We knew that
George Franklin was a pedophile.
262
00:19:36,925 --> 00:19:40,304
So therefore,
you ask, did he, in any way,
263
00:19:40,345 --> 00:19:42,681
lead you to
believe he was interested
264
00:19:42,723 --> 00:19:44,433
in young pre-puberty girls?
265
00:19:44,474 --> 00:19:47,227
Anything that would
give away that kind of behavior
266
00:19:47,269 --> 00:19:49,438
because that kind
of behavior is going
267
00:19:49,479 --> 00:19:53,192
to back up what
Eileen Franklin had told us?
268
00:20:35,817 --> 00:20:38,445
Did you talk to your
mother about this at all?
269
00:20:38,487 --> 00:20:41,365
- My mother was asleep.
- She was on medications
270
00:20:41,406 --> 00:20:43,742
for nervous breakdowns
that she'd had.
271
00:20:43,784 --> 00:20:48,163
She was really aware, I guess,
of what was going on.
272
00:20:57,172 --> 00:21:00,217
It was hard to hear it.
273
00:21:00,259 --> 00:21:02,761
A lot of it, I had to tell you.
274
00:21:02,803 --> 00:21:04,554
But I have no
doubt of the truth of it
275
00:21:04,596 --> 00:21:07,683
because so many
of the stories matched up.
276
00:21:07,724 --> 00:21:11,853
Every form of dysfunction
that I've ever encountered.
277
00:21:11,895 --> 00:21:14,523
I saw in that family.
278
00:21:14,564 --> 00:21:17,192
It was a house of hell.
279
00:21:26,618 --> 00:21:28,120
For many Americans,
280
00:21:28,161 --> 00:21:31,081
the world incest
is shrouded in mystery.
281
00:21:31,123 --> 00:21:33,292
It is the unthinkable,
the unspeakable.
282
00:21:33,333 --> 00:21:35,627
An ugly crime that targets
the most innocent among us,
283
00:21:35,669 --> 00:21:37,129
our children.
284
00:21:37,170 --> 00:21:40,257
The taboo against
incest is so strong
285
00:21:40,299 --> 00:21:43,010
that almost no one
has wanted to know about it
286
00:21:43,051 --> 00:21:45,137
or talk about it.
287
00:21:45,178 --> 00:21:47,306
One in every five girls
288
00:21:47,347 --> 00:21:49,933
and one in seven
boys is sexually abused
289
00:21:49,975 --> 00:21:52,519
by a closer
extended family member.
290
00:21:57,691 --> 00:22:01,653
In the 60s and 70s,
there was very little awareness
291
00:22:01,695 --> 00:22:04,823
of childhood sexual abuse.
292
00:22:04,865 --> 00:22:06,325
The first edition of
293
00:22:06,366 --> 00:22:08,285
the Comprehensive Textbook
of Psychiatry
294
00:22:08,327 --> 00:22:10,746
said that there
were 40,000 cases a year
295
00:22:10,787 --> 00:22:12,998
in the United States.
296
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,834
And that was
a grotesque underestimate.
297
00:22:15,876 --> 00:22:18,962
The estimates are there
are three million cases a year.
298
00:22:19,004 --> 00:22:21,465
One million
of which get attention.
299
00:22:21,506 --> 00:22:24,259
- The other two, nothing happens.
- They're not reported.
300
00:22:24,301 --> 00:22:27,095
It meant that there
was an enormous amount
301
00:22:27,137 --> 00:22:29,514
of child molestation cases,
incest cases,
302
00:22:29,556 --> 00:22:32,184
horrific cases
that went on and on
303
00:22:32,225 --> 00:22:34,519
and repeated
themselves year after year.
304
00:22:34,561 --> 00:22:36,021
Families would say,
305
00:22:36,063 --> 00:22:37,606
we've got to keep
this within ourselves.
306
00:22:37,647 --> 00:22:39,358
This is an embarrassment
to the entire family.
307
00:22:39,399 --> 00:22:41,193
And so don't
anybody bring it out.
308
00:22:41,234 --> 00:22:43,195
And I think that was
something at work here
309
00:22:43,236 --> 00:22:44,988
in the Franklin family.
310
00:22:45,030 --> 00:22:47,699
- Just keep everything quiet.
- You don't ever say anything.
311
00:22:47,741 --> 00:22:50,202
- People won't believe you.
- Whatever it may be.
312
00:22:52,245 --> 00:22:54,373
We learned about the bad things
313
00:22:54,414 --> 00:22:56,541
that went on in
the Franklin household
314
00:22:56,583 --> 00:22:59,920
when we got the discovery
from the prosecutor.
315
00:22:59,961 --> 00:23:02,172
Not all the stories were pretty,
316
00:23:02,214 --> 00:23:04,383
but that wasn't
what the case was about.
317
00:23:04,424 --> 00:23:07,761
The case was about whether
or not he killed Susan Nason.
318
00:23:07,803 --> 00:23:11,390
It was a searing hot potato
thrown into the jury's lap.
319
00:23:11,431 --> 00:23:14,351
And it would distract
them from their true duty.
320
00:23:16,353 --> 00:23:19,981
They wanted it in to
show that he was a bad guy.
321
00:23:21,900 --> 00:23:25,195
Eileen's sister,
Janice, was also convinced
322
00:23:25,237 --> 00:23:26,905
their father was guilty.
323
00:23:26,947 --> 00:23:30,325
She described the home
they grew up in this way.
324
00:23:30,367 --> 00:23:34,371
It was a combination
of their alcoholism
325
00:23:34,413 --> 00:23:37,165
in the home, physical violence,
physical abuse,
326
00:23:37,207 --> 00:23:39,501
mental and emotional abuse.
327
00:23:41,294 --> 00:23:44,381
So I have a sister
that's a year older than me.
328
00:23:44,423 --> 00:23:46,174
Janice had come
to the conclusion
329
00:23:46,216 --> 00:23:48,260
that my father had
murdered Susan Nason
330
00:23:48,301 --> 00:23:51,096
through some of my father's
conversations with her
331
00:23:51,138 --> 00:23:53,098
and his actions the night
332
00:23:53,140 --> 00:23:57,936
that the police came to the
house when Susan disappeared.
333
00:23:57,978 --> 00:24:02,774
In 1984, Janice goes to the
Foster City Police Department.
334
00:24:02,816 --> 00:24:05,402
She told them that she suspected
335
00:24:05,444 --> 00:24:09,072
that her father had
murdered Susan Nason.
336
00:24:09,114 --> 00:24:11,408
Janice remembers quite clearly
337
00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:13,618
coming back in
the house the night
338
00:24:13,660 --> 00:24:16,997
that Susan Nason disappeared
and facing her father,
339
00:24:17,038 --> 00:24:21,668
who gave her a look
that froze her in her tracks.
340
00:24:21,710 --> 00:24:25,797
The biggest problem
she has is the time of day
341
00:24:25,839 --> 00:24:28,300
that she says it happened.
342
00:24:28,341 --> 00:24:31,803
She says,
"I came home around four o'clock
343
00:24:31,845 --> 00:24:35,724
"and there he was home."
344
00:24:35,765 --> 00:24:39,895
And according to
undisputable facts,
345
00:24:39,936 --> 00:24:44,399
Susan Nason was seen at 3:15.
346
00:24:44,441 --> 00:24:46,943
45 minutes could
not have been enough time
347
00:24:46,985 --> 00:24:50,947
for all of the driving
and the killing and coming back.
348
00:24:50,989 --> 00:24:55,619
So the specific result
of the allegation was dismissed
349
00:24:55,660 --> 00:25:00,957
because the time
periods didn't match up.
350
00:25:00,999 --> 00:25:03,084
Janice's
statement was alibing George
351
00:25:03,126 --> 00:25:04,503
because she put
him in the house,
352
00:25:04,544 --> 00:25:06,129
in the chair at
4:00 in the afternoon,
353
00:25:06,171 --> 00:25:07,589
at the time of the killing.
354
00:25:07,631 --> 00:25:09,591
But she later
danced back from that
355
00:25:09,633 --> 00:25:11,510
and changed her story when
she saw it wasn't consistent
356
00:25:11,551 --> 00:25:14,554
with the known facts and tried
to take the alibi away.
357
00:25:37,702 --> 00:25:41,373
Janice hates
her father, doesn't she?
358
00:25:41,414 --> 00:25:43,208
Objection, calls for an opinion.
359
00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:45,877
Sustained.
360
00:25:45,919 --> 00:25:54,469
Janice, ever in any way
encourage you to go forward
361
00:25:54,511 --> 00:25:59,057
with this
prosecution in any way?
362
00:25:59,099 --> 00:26:01,434
Did she encourage
me to go forward?
363
00:26:01,476 --> 00:26:03,937
To encourage you to go
forward with this prosecution
364
00:26:03,979 --> 00:26:06,273
at any time in any way?
365
00:26:06,314 --> 00:26:07,941
Objection as to relevance,
366
00:26:07,983 --> 00:26:09,401
Her state of mind, Your Honor.
367
00:26:09,442 --> 00:26:11,236
This is her sister.
368
00:26:11,278 --> 00:26:14,406
We do allege that
there was a measure
369
00:26:14,447 --> 00:26:17,867
of collaboration
between this witness
370
00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:20,370
and Janice Franklin.
371
00:26:22,872 --> 00:26:28,086
I think Eileen
was on a revenge trip.
372
00:26:28,128 --> 00:26:31,798
Janice was in on a lie
373
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,260
and the two daughters
conspired together
374
00:26:35,302 --> 00:26:40,098
to present a compelling
case against George.
375
00:26:40,140 --> 00:26:44,227
And they were both on
a jihad to convict their father.
376
00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:47,522
And then
the mother joined the jihad.
377
00:27:09,461 --> 00:27:12,714
When Leah Franklin
took the stand for the trial,
378
00:27:12,756 --> 00:27:14,674
she decided to
volunteer something.
379
00:27:14,716 --> 00:27:17,135
But it wasn't just
a routine thing like, you know,
380
00:27:17,177 --> 00:27:19,137
what she had for
breakfast that day.
381
00:27:19,179 --> 00:27:22,182
She volunteers
that George Franklin
382
00:27:22,223 --> 00:27:24,351
at the time of this murder,
383
00:27:24,392 --> 00:27:26,895
had come to her
with a blood soaked shirt
384
00:27:26,936 --> 00:27:28,605
and asked her to wash it.
385
00:27:28,647 --> 00:27:32,233
I remember George asking me
386
00:27:32,275 --> 00:27:34,778
to wash
a shirt that blood on it
387
00:27:34,819 --> 00:27:38,782
and he gave me information that
it was a shirt he used painting
388
00:27:38,823 --> 00:27:41,701
that he had injured himself
while he was painting.
389
00:27:41,743 --> 00:27:45,664
It was in that span of time
Susan was missing,
390
00:27:45,705 --> 00:27:47,582
but her body had not
been discovered.
391
00:27:47,624 --> 00:27:49,793
Almost certain of that.
392
00:27:49,834 --> 00:27:52,754
It was a white
shirt that she described.
393
00:27:52,796 --> 00:27:54,506
And Eileen had
described her father
394
00:27:54,547 --> 00:27:57,008
wearing a white
T-shirt with an open,
395
00:27:57,050 --> 00:27:58,802
checkered Pendleton over it.
396
00:27:58,843 --> 00:28:02,430
He immediately gave
her an explanation and said,
397
00:28:02,472 --> 00:28:07,227
"I got it bloody
during a painting accident."
398
00:28:07,268 --> 00:28:09,688
Very implausible.
399
00:28:13,233 --> 00:28:15,694
One item in
the prosecution's case
400
00:28:15,735 --> 00:28:20,073
was Leah's testimony
that George had brought her
401
00:28:20,115 --> 00:28:24,536
a bloodstained shirt
and asked her to wash it.
402
00:28:24,577 --> 00:28:26,496
Pretty damning
piece of evidence,
403
00:28:26,538 --> 00:28:30,583
except for the fact
that Horngrad had asked her
404
00:28:30,625 --> 00:28:34,337
about a blood soaked shirt
at the preliminary hearing,
405
00:28:34,379 --> 00:28:37,465
and she said she
didn't remember it.
406
00:28:42,595 --> 00:28:45,932
Leah testified at
the preliminary hearing,
407
00:28:45,974 --> 00:28:47,767
and so I asked her,
408
00:28:47,809 --> 00:28:49,853
"Anything unusual
happened that day?
409
00:28:49,894 --> 00:28:51,730
"Anything
memorable happened that day?"
410
00:28:51,771 --> 00:28:53,815
And the answer was no,
"Like what?" She said.
411
00:28:53,857 --> 00:28:55,900
And I said something like,
you know,
412
00:28:55,942 --> 00:28:58,486
"He came home with a gun or he
came home with a bloody shirt?
413
00:28:58,528 --> 00:29:00,864
"Or he came home and confessed a
murder or something like that."
414
00:29:00,905 --> 00:29:02,574
"Oh, nothing like that."
415
00:29:02,615 --> 00:29:04,659
But once we get to trial,
416
00:29:04,701 --> 00:29:07,203
everything's evolving and
the drumbeat of the prosecution
417
00:29:07,245 --> 00:29:08,997
and the emotional investment
418
00:29:09,038 --> 00:29:11,416
and the conviction and suddenly
the testimony changes.
419
00:29:11,458 --> 00:29:14,753
Doug Horngrad asked in
court whether I remembered
420
00:29:14,794 --> 00:29:17,422
a bloody shirt. And at
the preliminary hearing,
421
00:29:17,464 --> 00:29:19,799
I said "No." And at that point,
422
00:29:19,841 --> 00:29:23,178
I began to have
a glimmer of remembering it.
423
00:29:23,219 --> 00:29:26,389
And then I went home
and I tried to remember it.
424
00:29:26,431 --> 00:29:28,641
And then over the weekend,
425
00:29:28,683 --> 00:29:33,897
I remembered and I am
sure of what I'm saying.
426
00:29:35,899 --> 00:29:38,401
It does bring
once again into question
427
00:29:38,443 --> 00:29:40,945
about how
the Franklin memory works,
428
00:29:40,987 --> 00:29:42,739
because here is
Leah possibly recovering
429
00:29:42,781 --> 00:29:44,824
a repressed
memory of the bloody shirt
430
00:29:44,866 --> 00:29:49,287
that she didn't remember
at the preliminary hearing.
431
00:29:49,329 --> 00:29:51,998
And so what
looked very suspicious
432
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,294
and incriminating was,
in fact, just flat out wrong.
433
00:29:58,421 --> 00:30:00,256
Maybe she thought, you know,
434
00:30:00,298 --> 00:30:01,633
her daughter
needed a little help
435
00:30:01,674 --> 00:30:03,551
getting her
ex-husband convicted.
436
00:30:03,593 --> 00:30:06,471
And so she threw
that bloody shirt story in.
437
00:30:08,681 --> 00:30:13,770
And just like Leah and Janice,
438
00:30:13,812 --> 00:30:15,814
Eileen told different versions
439
00:30:15,855 --> 00:30:18,525
to different
people at different times.
440
00:30:20,109 --> 00:30:21,653
No, that's fine.
441
00:30:21,694 --> 00:30:23,738
Does court wish to see it?
442
00:30:23,780 --> 00:30:26,157
Your Honor,
may I approach the witness?
443
00:30:26,199 --> 00:30:29,786
Please. I'm showing you a copy--
444
00:30:29,828 --> 00:30:32,997
I'm asking you to
take a look at it--
445
00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:35,667
Of the transcript
of your conversation
446
00:30:35,708 --> 00:30:37,836
with the prosecutor
about the time of day
447
00:30:37,877 --> 00:30:40,338
that you remembered initially
when this had occurred.
448
00:30:40,380 --> 00:30:42,215
Do you think that might
refresh your recollection?
449
00:30:42,257 --> 00:30:44,384
Yes, I recall this.
450
00:30:46,553 --> 00:30:50,014
Can you remember in your
mind what happened that day?
451
00:30:50,056 --> 00:30:51,933
Yes.
452
00:31:24,424 --> 00:31:28,636
One of the things that
I found particularly peculiar,
453
00:31:28,678 --> 00:31:30,805
I guess, about the story
454
00:31:30,847 --> 00:31:34,851
is that originally
Eileen said that they see Susie
455
00:31:34,893 --> 00:31:36,561
and Susie gets in the van
456
00:31:36,603 --> 00:31:39,230
and this all
happened in the morning.
457
00:31:39,272 --> 00:31:41,941
But then she apparently learns
458
00:31:41,983 --> 00:31:47,030
that Susie didn't
disappear until the afternoon.
459
00:31:47,071 --> 00:31:51,951
And so she changes her story.
460
00:31:51,993 --> 00:31:53,745
I'm sorry?
461
00:31:53,786 --> 00:31:55,914
Do you recall what time of day
462
00:31:55,955 --> 00:31:58,541
was it the last
time you saw Susan?
463
00:32:01,210 --> 00:32:04,088
It was late afternoon.
464
00:32:04,130 --> 00:32:07,091
And now it's
all in the afternoon
465
00:32:07,133 --> 00:32:09,260
that Eileen and her father
are driving through the streets.
466
00:32:09,302 --> 00:32:10,845
They see Susie and gets in.
467
00:32:10,887 --> 00:32:13,765
So you can see
how this story changes
468
00:32:13,806 --> 00:32:16,768
when she's fed
some new information
469
00:32:16,809 --> 00:32:21,272
that made her original
story unlikely or impossible.
470
00:32:21,314 --> 00:32:23,524
So you told the prosecutor
471
00:32:23,566 --> 00:32:25,401
that Susan was picked up
472
00:32:25,443 --> 00:32:27,946
by you and your dad in
the early morning hours.
473
00:32:27,987 --> 00:32:29,739
Isn't that what
you initially told us?
474
00:32:29,781 --> 00:32:31,908
Yeah, that's what
I initially thought.
475
00:32:31,950 --> 00:32:39,290
Now, you say that
your dad picked Susan up
476
00:32:39,332 --> 00:32:41,250
- in the afternoon.
- Is that what you're saying now?
477
00:32:41,292 --> 00:32:42,877
That's what I'm saying.
478
00:32:42,919 --> 00:32:45,964
When in your
mind did that change?
479
00:32:46,005 --> 00:32:48,633
When I started
thinking about it,
480
00:32:48,675 --> 00:32:50,635
about exactly what time it was?
481
00:32:50,677 --> 00:32:52,929
Because the more
I thought about the sun
482
00:32:52,971 --> 00:32:56,516
being behind
my father when I saw his frame
483
00:32:56,557 --> 00:32:58,476
with the locks up, I thought,
484
00:32:58,518 --> 00:33:00,812
"How can that be morning unless
it was very early morning?
485
00:33:00,853 --> 00:33:02,772
Maybe I'm mistaken
and it's afternoon."
486
00:33:09,153 --> 00:33:12,532
She had some
explanation that involved having
487
00:33:12,573 --> 00:33:16,160
some sunlight in her flashback.
488
00:33:20,790 --> 00:33:22,458
This was her attempt,
489
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:24,919
I think at an explanation
for why her story changed.
490
00:33:24,961 --> 00:33:28,589
But it wasn't
very compelling to me.
491
00:33:28,631 --> 00:33:34,012
Her story was evolving and she
was shifting her testimony
492
00:33:34,053 --> 00:33:37,849
to fit the known
facts as well as she could.
493
00:33:41,978 --> 00:33:44,564
It was a work in progress.
494
00:33:51,487 --> 00:33:57,493
Recall telling the prosecution
495
00:33:57,535 --> 00:33:59,370
that your sister, Janice,
496
00:33:59,412 --> 00:34:03,666
was in your father's van when
you stopped to pick up Susan?
497
00:34:03,708 --> 00:34:06,878
Yes, I do.
498
00:34:06,919 --> 00:34:10,798
At the beginning,
she said Janice was in the van.
499
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,302
That was a powerful
piece of corroboration.
500
00:34:14,343 --> 00:34:19,348
Morris called it when
he heard it from Eileen,
501
00:34:19,390 --> 00:34:22,977
"That's our cherry on the cake."
502
00:34:23,019 --> 00:34:26,898
Only to find when
they talked to Janice
503
00:34:26,939 --> 00:34:30,568
that she had no
memory of being in the van.
504
00:34:34,030 --> 00:34:36,824
Eileen,
was there another witness?
505
00:34:38,951 --> 00:34:41,579
Was there another
witness in the van at the time
506
00:34:41,621 --> 00:34:44,207
that Ms. Nason was picked up?
507
00:34:44,248 --> 00:34:48,252
Other than you?
508
00:34:48,294 --> 00:34:52,173
I think that Janice
was outside of the van.
509
00:34:52,215 --> 00:34:55,176
- So the answer is no.
- I'm sorry.
510
00:34:55,218 --> 00:34:56,928
The answer to
the question is no.
511
00:34:56,969 --> 00:34:58,513
There was not
another witness in the van.
512
00:34:58,554 --> 00:35:00,473
There was not
another witness in the van.
513
00:35:00,515 --> 00:35:02,642
Now when did that memory change?
514
00:35:04,769 --> 00:35:07,396
I can't say.
515
00:35:07,438 --> 00:35:10,316
Did you talk to Janice
about what she remembered
516
00:35:10,358 --> 00:35:12,443
of September 22nd, 1969?
517
00:35:12,485 --> 00:35:15,029
No, I didn't.
518
00:35:15,071 --> 00:35:19,492
And do you know now,
as you sit here
519
00:35:19,534 --> 00:35:23,913
what Janice says about
whether she was in the van
520
00:35:23,955 --> 00:35:25,873
or not, September 22nd, 1969?
521
00:35:25,915 --> 00:35:27,750
Do you know what she's saying?
522
00:35:27,792 --> 00:35:29,961
- No.
- No idea?
523
00:35:30,002 --> 00:35:32,004
No.
524
00:35:33,548 --> 00:35:37,969
Between the time you
first told the authorities
525
00:35:38,010 --> 00:35:39,637
that Janice was in the van--
526
00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:41,305
that statement
you made in November--
527
00:35:41,347 --> 00:35:43,307
At the time that
your memory changed,
528
00:35:43,349 --> 00:35:45,309
was anyone else
living in your house
529
00:35:45,351 --> 00:35:47,061
other than yourself,
your husband and your children?
530
00:35:47,103 --> 00:35:48,396
No.
531
00:35:48,437 --> 00:35:51,149
And where was Janice?
532
00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:53,401
- I'm sorry?
- Where was Janice?
533
00:35:53,442 --> 00:35:55,486
Oh, I thought you
included an answer.
534
00:35:55,528 --> 00:35:57,113
Oh, I'm sorry.
535
00:35:57,155 --> 00:35:58,906
Let me rephrase
the question again.
536
00:35:58,948 --> 00:36:01,284
Between November of '89,
537
00:36:01,325 --> 00:36:03,286
and you first made
the statement to the police
538
00:36:03,327 --> 00:36:06,164
in January of '90,
has your memory changed?
539
00:36:06,205 --> 00:36:09,292
Other than yourself,
your husband and your children,
540
00:36:09,333 --> 00:36:11,669
was anyone living in
your home in Canoga Park?
541
00:36:11,711 --> 00:36:14,672
Yes, Janice was.
542
00:36:14,714 --> 00:36:16,465
Mark Twain said,
"If you don't lie,
543
00:36:16,507 --> 00:36:19,218
"you don't have to
remember what you just said."
544
00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:22,013
So she's running around
trying to clean up the story.
545
00:36:22,054 --> 00:36:25,433
- Why? Why?
- Because it's not true.
546
00:36:25,474 --> 00:36:28,477
Repression is
something that's very difficult
547
00:36:28,519 --> 00:36:30,062
for people to understand.
548
00:36:30,104 --> 00:36:32,899
But there's no motivation
for making up a story.
549
00:36:32,940 --> 00:36:34,358
Other people that have discussed
550
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:35,902
their repressed memories,
551
00:36:35,943 --> 00:36:37,653
I can't see any motive
they could possibly have
552
00:36:37,695 --> 00:36:39,572
for telling their stories.
553
00:36:39,614 --> 00:36:43,618
Why would she make this
accusation if it weren't true?
554
00:36:43,659 --> 00:36:47,830
Well, the obvious
answer to that is revenge.
555
00:36:47,872 --> 00:36:49,832
She's getting even with George,
556
00:36:49,874 --> 00:36:52,710
for all the stuff he did to her.
557
00:36:52,752 --> 00:36:57,173
This family rumor or
family lore or family suspicion
558
00:36:57,215 --> 00:36:59,717
that George Franklin
was responsible
559
00:36:59,759 --> 00:37:03,387
for killing Susan Nason
grew from their knowledge
560
00:37:03,429 --> 00:37:06,015
of his cruel temperament.
561
00:37:06,057 --> 00:37:07,642
They knew who he was.
562
00:37:07,683 --> 00:37:11,562
They knew the violence
inside the guy, you know?
563
00:37:11,604 --> 00:37:13,522
If you accept the idea
564
00:37:13,564 --> 00:37:16,400
that she was
sexually and physically abused
565
00:37:16,442 --> 00:37:19,028
as well as emotionally
abused by her father,
566
00:37:19,070 --> 00:37:21,364
you could imagine
that there was a fair amount
567
00:37:21,405 --> 00:37:24,492
of underlying resentment
of him for what he did.
568
00:37:24,533 --> 00:37:29,247
And this may have been
her way of punishing him
569
00:37:29,288 --> 00:37:32,500
and sort of humiliating
him in front of the world.
570
00:37:32,541 --> 00:37:35,962
And the messy detail
about whether he's the one
571
00:37:36,003 --> 00:37:38,172
that killed
Susan Nason or somebody else
572
00:37:38,214 --> 00:37:41,175
may have seemed
less important than her
573
00:37:41,217 --> 00:37:44,553
taking a public stance
that he did terrible things
574
00:37:44,595 --> 00:37:47,431
and this is wrong
and he should go to jail for it.
575
00:37:50,059 --> 00:37:51,435
What's that line?
576
00:37:51,477 --> 00:37:54,605
Happy families are
all unhappy families
577
00:37:54,647 --> 00:37:56,732
each in their own way.
578
00:37:56,774 --> 00:37:58,734
This was an unhappy family
579
00:37:58,776 --> 00:38:02,905
and George was on trial
for his behavior in the home.
580
00:38:02,947 --> 00:38:05,074
while he was
a husband and father.
581
00:38:05,116 --> 00:38:08,786
That's what he was on trial for.
582
00:38:08,828 --> 00:38:10,454
Do you ever have a thought
583
00:38:10,496 --> 00:38:12,915
about your
father going to prison?
584
00:38:12,957 --> 00:38:15,126
Yes, I did.
585
00:38:15,167 --> 00:38:17,837
And what did you think of that?
586
00:38:17,878 --> 00:38:20,256
I didn't like the idea.
587
00:38:20,298 --> 00:38:22,466
Why?
588
00:38:26,595 --> 00:38:30,349
Because I don't like the idea
of my father going to prison.
589
00:38:30,391 --> 00:38:36,772
Well, what then stimulated you
590
00:38:36,814 --> 00:38:39,900
to tell the police?
591
00:38:39,942 --> 00:38:45,990
Well, I think
I had to balance...
592
00:38:46,032 --> 00:38:47,908
several things.
593
00:38:47,950 --> 00:38:51,370
I had to balance
my feelings for my father
594
00:38:51,412 --> 00:38:58,002
against the truth
and against the fact
595
00:38:58,044 --> 00:39:01,172
that I was a witness to a crime.
596
00:39:27,615 --> 00:39:32,787
The essence of my closing
argument to the jury was,
597
00:39:32,828 --> 00:39:35,164
was she credible or was she not?
598
00:39:35,206 --> 00:39:37,750
You have to be
open to the possibility
599
00:39:37,792 --> 00:39:39,710
that this is a real memory
600
00:39:39,752 --> 00:39:43,923
and that she did repress it.
601
00:39:43,964 --> 00:39:49,011
I remembered
looking into Susie's eyes.
602
00:39:49,053 --> 00:39:52,223
There were moments through
603
00:39:52,264 --> 00:39:54,642
this trial where
she would say something
604
00:39:54,683 --> 00:39:57,353
where there would almost
be a stillness in the courtroom.
605
00:39:57,395 --> 00:40:00,064
He had both of his
hands above his head like this.
606
00:40:00,106 --> 00:40:03,859
A lot of specific
detail in her recall
607
00:40:03,901 --> 00:40:06,904
was not anywhere in the records.
608
00:40:06,946 --> 00:40:10,908
I heard the second blow.
609
00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:15,079
It just was
registering as authentic.
610
00:40:15,121 --> 00:40:18,499
Like she was saying true things.
611
00:40:18,541 --> 00:40:21,585
Like she was speaking the truth.
612
00:40:21,627 --> 00:40:25,923
So I said,
if you saw the physical evidence
613
00:40:25,965 --> 00:40:27,591
and you saw the photographs
614
00:40:27,633 --> 00:40:29,677
and you heard from
all the other witnesses
615
00:40:29,718 --> 00:40:32,430
and the significant
amount of corroboration
616
00:40:32,471 --> 00:40:34,723
where what she's
describing is born out
617
00:40:34,765 --> 00:40:36,642
in so many different ways,
618
00:40:36,684 --> 00:40:40,938
would it even matter
why she didn't come forward
619
00:40:40,980 --> 00:40:42,648
for 20 years?
620
00:40:42,690 --> 00:40:46,110
If I told anyone,
he would have to kill me.
621
00:40:46,152 --> 00:40:47,903
I played her tape.
622
00:40:47,945 --> 00:40:52,241
That's the last
thing that the jury heard.
623
00:41:18,476 --> 00:41:21,812
It was such a childlike way
624
00:41:21,854 --> 00:41:24,607
of processing what
she had just witnessed
625
00:41:24,648 --> 00:41:28,652
and processing her
own fear and her concern.
626
00:41:28,694 --> 00:41:33,157
He, George Franklin,
could not have cared less.
627
00:41:33,199 --> 00:41:37,745
He left that body in that place
628
00:41:37,786 --> 00:41:43,375
where her grave
was a rocky crevice.
629
00:41:43,417 --> 00:41:47,546
Her headstone
was an old box spring
630
00:41:47,588 --> 00:41:50,174
and the only visits to her grave
631
00:41:50,216 --> 00:41:53,802
were made by wild
animals and insects.
632
00:41:56,263 --> 00:41:57,848
At the end of the day,
633
00:41:57,890 --> 00:41:59,892
I said it's as simple as this:
634
00:41:59,934 --> 00:42:02,436
If you believe she was present
635
00:42:02,478 --> 00:42:06,065
when her father
murdered Susan Nason, that's it.
636
00:42:06,106 --> 00:42:09,944
He is guilty
of first degree murder.
637
00:42:09,985 --> 00:42:14,532
And that's the verdict
that you have to return.
638
00:42:14,573 --> 00:42:17,326
Eileen Franklin Lipsker
has said bringing charges
639
00:42:17,368 --> 00:42:19,370
against her
father has been difficult
640
00:42:19,411 --> 00:42:22,289
and will probably always
have an impact on her life.
641
00:42:22,331 --> 00:42:23,874
Now it's up to
George Franklin's attorneys
642
00:42:23,916 --> 00:42:25,793
to present their side.
643
00:42:25,834 --> 00:42:28,337
They say there are too many
inconsistencies in her recall.
644
00:42:38,931 --> 00:42:43,143
My closing focused
a lot on all the inconsistencies
645
00:42:43,185 --> 00:42:46,063
in her testimony.
646
00:42:46,105 --> 00:42:48,190
That was really what
the whole trial was about.
647
00:42:48,232 --> 00:42:53,070
It was about her credibility
or her lack of credibility.
648
00:42:53,112 --> 00:42:55,531
I felt like she had
been caught in so many lies
649
00:42:55,573 --> 00:42:57,700
that the jury
couldn't accept that as true.
650
00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:19,888
It's very hard
to say whether or not
651
00:43:19,930 --> 00:43:22,474
Eileen believed this story
without getting into her head.
652
00:43:22,516 --> 00:43:25,269
However,
if you really believe this,
653
00:43:25,311 --> 00:43:26,770
then why are you working so hard
654
00:43:26,812 --> 00:43:29,898
to make up
certain aspects of it?
655
00:43:29,940 --> 00:43:32,401
Why are you changing
your story all the time?
656
00:43:32,443 --> 00:43:33,944
The prosecution's position was
657
00:43:33,986 --> 00:43:35,738
whenever she said
something that was correct,
658
00:43:35,779 --> 00:43:37,406
it was correct,
659
00:43:37,448 --> 00:43:39,074
that whenever she said
something that was wrong,
660
00:43:39,116 --> 00:43:41,702
it was just attributed to
the evolution of her memory.
661
00:43:41,744 --> 00:43:44,413
But curiously enough,
her memory always evolved
662
00:43:44,455 --> 00:43:45,956
consistent with the known facts
663
00:43:45,998 --> 00:43:47,708
as she became aware of them.
664
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:50,794
So I infer from that
that it's a made up story.
665
00:43:52,755 --> 00:43:55,382
What if I were to tell
you that my memory came back
666
00:43:55,424 --> 00:43:59,136
as a result of hypnosis?
667
00:43:59,178 --> 00:44:00,929
Now, if it is so
668
00:44:00,971 --> 00:44:03,599
that she did retrieve
the memory in hypnosis...
669
00:44:07,353 --> 00:44:11,440
Then perhaps she believed it
670
00:44:11,482 --> 00:44:14,652
and then was so
invested in the story
671
00:44:14,693 --> 00:44:16,779
that she had to do
everything she could
672
00:44:16,820 --> 00:44:18,781
to shore up
the story and change her story
673
00:44:18,822 --> 00:44:20,866
to the existing facts.
674
00:44:33,170 --> 00:44:35,464
I felt good at the closing
675
00:44:35,506 --> 00:44:38,258
because I believed
that at the end of the day,
676
00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:40,135
juries pretty much get it right.
677
00:44:40,177 --> 00:44:43,555
And I had faith that
they would do the right thing.
678
00:45:11,542 --> 00:45:19,091
The jury deliberated
for less than a day.
679
00:45:19,133 --> 00:45:22,636
For a murder case, then and now,
that's very fast.
680
00:45:22,678 --> 00:45:26,515
That's very, very fast.
681
00:45:26,557 --> 00:45:28,767
It was going to be guilty,
not guilty.
682
00:45:28,809 --> 00:45:31,478
That was it.
683
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,439
But you never know.
684
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,858
You never know until you hear
those words in the jury room.
685
00:45:42,030 --> 00:45:43,991
A judge in Redwood City,
California,
686
00:45:44,032 --> 00:45:46,744
today sentenced George Franklin
Senior to life in prison
687
00:45:46,785 --> 00:45:49,747
for the 1969 murder
of an eight year old girl.
688
00:45:49,788 --> 00:45:51,915
The case was
reopened 20 years later
689
00:45:51,957 --> 00:45:55,210
when Franklin's daughter
said she suddenly remembered
690
00:45:55,252 --> 00:45:58,338
seeing the crime.
691
00:46:07,806 --> 00:46:10,726
Eileen, are you relieved?
692
00:46:10,768 --> 00:46:12,853
Eileen, can we
talk to you for a second?
693
00:46:12,895 --> 00:46:15,063
How do you feel?
694
00:46:25,991 --> 00:46:27,826
Some people thought,
695
00:46:27,868 --> 00:46:29,703
"Well, of course, it
would be a quick 'not guilty,'
696
00:46:29,745 --> 00:46:32,414
"because it's just
so fantastical to think
697
00:46:32,456 --> 00:46:34,124
"that this could have happened
698
00:46:34,166 --> 00:46:35,959
"and she could have
repressed the memory of it."
699
00:46:36,001 --> 00:46:38,545
Who would
believe a story like that?
700
00:46:38,587 --> 00:46:43,509
But 12 people sat
through a five week jury trial
701
00:46:43,550 --> 00:46:47,930
and they found her
testimony to be compelling
702
00:46:47,971 --> 00:46:50,599
and believable
and credible and corroborated
703
00:46:50,641 --> 00:46:54,311
by a lot of other evidence.
704
00:46:54,353 --> 00:46:56,605
- Mrs. Nason.
- Could you talk to us?
705
00:46:56,647 --> 00:46:58,982
Just give us one comment.
706
00:46:59,024 --> 00:47:00,692
I wanted to be there.
707
00:47:00,734 --> 00:47:02,653
I wanted to hear a conclusion
708
00:47:02,694 --> 00:47:05,072
to what happened to my daughter.
709
00:47:05,113 --> 00:47:07,658
Thank you, Mrs. Nason.
710
00:47:13,789 --> 00:47:16,458
Here is a first
degree murder conviction
711
00:47:16,500 --> 00:47:19,419
based on repressed memory.
712
00:47:19,461 --> 00:47:22,881
No semen,
no hair fiber, nothing.
713
00:47:22,923 --> 00:47:24,925
Nothing but repressed memory.
714
00:47:24,967 --> 00:47:28,512
The jurors found
Eileen compelling and credible.
715
00:47:28,554 --> 00:47:30,514
There were things
that she couldn't have known
716
00:47:30,556 --> 00:47:31,723
unless it actually happened.
717
00:47:31,765 --> 00:47:33,100
No one could have told her.
718
00:47:33,141 --> 00:47:34,935
No one could have
made it up for her.
719
00:47:34,977 --> 00:47:36,937
The way she described
Susan as holding her hands
720
00:47:36,979 --> 00:47:40,023
and the way that
the ring was crushed,
721
00:47:40,065 --> 00:47:42,776
the whole thing
fitted together very well.
722
00:47:42,818 --> 00:47:46,405
Were you worried that
they might not believe you?
723
00:47:46,446 --> 00:47:48,866
I don't think I was worried
that they wouldn't believe me
724
00:47:48,907 --> 00:47:52,828
but I didn't know what
other evidence was available.
725
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:55,372
So, of course, I had
doubts whether they were convict
726
00:47:55,414 --> 00:47:57,040
or not at times.
727
00:47:57,082 --> 00:47:58,792
But I didn't think
they would ever disbelieve me.
728
00:47:58,834 --> 00:48:01,378
Are you happy? Relieved?
729
00:48:01,420 --> 00:48:04,047
Well, I'm overwhelmed.
730
00:48:07,009 --> 00:48:08,635
What will you do now?
731
00:48:08,677 --> 00:48:10,888
I'm going to go home
and just go on with my life.
732
00:48:10,929 --> 00:48:12,389
Raise my kids.
733
00:48:12,431 --> 00:48:13,724
Congratulations.
734
00:48:13,765 --> 00:48:15,475
Thank you.
735
00:48:15,517 --> 00:48:17,352
I feel great. I feel great.
736
00:48:17,394 --> 00:48:21,315
Once again, the jurors
in this county have done it.
737
00:48:21,356 --> 00:48:26,570
They saw through all
the smoke and did their job.
738
00:48:26,612 --> 00:48:30,616
They're heroes.
739
00:48:30,657 --> 00:48:34,786
After the trial,
Detective Moore said to me,
740
00:48:34,828 --> 00:48:36,622
"I'm gonna tell you something,
741
00:48:36,663 --> 00:48:38,957
"but I'm going to
hire you as my lawyer.
742
00:48:38,999 --> 00:48:42,127
"Here's a dollar. We
have a lawyer-client privilege?"
743
00:48:42,169 --> 00:48:43,670
And I said, "Yeah."
744
00:48:43,712 --> 00:48:46,965
He said,
"There's other murders here.
745
00:48:47,007 --> 00:48:49,968
"We got to get
other things on this guy."
746
00:49:01,939 --> 00:49:04,858
Do new memories still come out?
747
00:49:04,900 --> 00:49:07,319
Yes.
748
00:49:07,361 --> 00:49:11,281
Have you remembered witnessing
749
00:49:11,323 --> 00:49:15,118
any other crimes that
your father's committed?
750
00:49:17,913 --> 00:49:22,334
I just--I've been
asked not to comment on it.62337
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