All language subtitles for Buried.2021.S01E01.720p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DDP5.1.H.264-NTb[eztv.re]

af Afrikaans
ak Akan
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bem Bemba
bn Bengali
bh Bihari
bs Bosnian
br Breton
bg Bulgarian
km Cambodian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
chr Cherokee
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
en English
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
ee Ewe
fo Faroese
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French Download
fy Frisian
gaa Ga
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gn Guarani
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ia Interlingua
ga Irish
it Italian
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
rw Kinyarwanda
rn Kirundi
kg Kongo
ko Korean
kri Krio (Sierra Leone)
ku Kurdish
ckb Kurdish (Soranî)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Laothian
la Latin
lv Latvian
ln Lingala
lt Lithuanian
loz Lozi
lg Luganda
ach Luo
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mfe Mauritian Creole
mo Moldavian
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
sr-ME Montenegrin
ne Nepali
pcm Nigerian Pidgin
nso Northern Sotho
no Norwegian
nn Norwegian (Nynorsk)
oc Occitan
or Oriya
om Oromo
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt-BR Portuguese (Brazil)
pt Portuguese (Portugal)
pa Punjabi
qu Quechua
ro Romanian
rm Romansh
nyn Runyakitara
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
sh Serbo-Croatian
st Sesotho
tn Setswana
crs Seychellois Creole
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhalese
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish Download
es-419 Spanish (Latin American)
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
tt Tatar
te Telugu
th Thai
ti Tigrinya
to Tonga
lua Tshiluba
tum Tumbuka
tr Turkish
tk Turkmen
tw Twi
ug Uighur
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
wo Wolof
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:04,796 --> 00:00:07,799 District attorney's office, Edder speaking. 2 00:00:07,841 --> 00:00:11,511 Yes, hello. My wife just gave me some information 3 00:00:11,553 --> 00:00:15,807 that she's been living with 4 00:00:15,849 --> 00:00:20,020 for some time. When she was eight years old, 5 00:00:20,061 --> 00:00:24,024 she saw a murder. 6 00:00:24,065 --> 00:00:25,859 I see. 7 00:00:25,900 --> 00:00:31,031 It-- the murderer was somebody that she... 8 00:00:31,072 --> 00:00:33,241 ...knows quite well. 9 00:00:33,283 --> 00:00:35,201 The murderer or the victim? 10 00:00:35,243 --> 00:00:36,578 Murderer and the victim. 11 00:00:36,619 --> 00:00:39,039 - I see. - Both. 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:44,210 - This was 20 years ago. - So it's been a while. 13 00:00:44,252 --> 00:00:46,546 The case was never closed. 14 00:00:46,588 --> 00:00:49,549 Do you know the name of the suspect? 15 00:00:49,591 --> 00:00:52,802 - Yes, I do. - Could you give me that? 16 00:00:52,844 --> 00:00:56,765 - Okay... - His name is George Franklin. 17 00:00:56,806 --> 00:00:58,516 Okay. 18 00:00:58,558 --> 00:01:00,769 It's her father. 19 00:01:38,973 --> 00:01:41,601 The 1969 murder of a young girl 20 00:01:41,643 --> 00:01:43,645 in the San Francisco area may well have remained 21 00:01:43,686 --> 00:01:46,106 a mystery forever were it not for 22 00:01:46,147 --> 00:01:49,317 the haunting memories of her best friend. 23 00:01:51,277 --> 00:01:53,947 Police had given up hope for solving 24 00:01:53,988 --> 00:01:56,866 the murder until a crucial witness stepped forward. 25 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,044 It was a young woman named Eileen Franklin 26 00:02:08,086 --> 00:02:11,965 who said that she suddenly remembered that when she was 27 00:02:12,006 --> 00:02:14,300 eight years old, she witnessed her father, George Franklin, 28 00:02:14,342 --> 00:02:16,553 molest and murder her best friend. 29 00:02:16,594 --> 00:02:19,639 haunting vocalization 30 00:02:27,147 --> 00:02:30,859 It's a murder case that pits daughter 31 00:02:30,900 --> 00:02:32,402 against father. 32 00:02:34,237 --> 00:02:36,197 A case built 33 00:02:36,239 --> 00:02:39,534 on the daughter's repressed memories from her childhood. 34 00:02:41,911 --> 00:02:44,497 Some psychologists say it is quite possible 35 00:02:44,539 --> 00:02:47,292 Eileen buried such a traumatic memory, 36 00:02:47,876 --> 00:02:52,380 and anything that caused that painful memory to resurface. 37 00:03:08,229 --> 00:03:11,107 - Morning, ladies and gentlemen. - The record will reflect 38 00:03:11,149 --> 00:03:13,318 the presence of the defendant, the counsel and the people 39 00:03:13,359 --> 00:03:15,945 represented. Ms. Tipton, you may call another witness. 40 00:03:15,987 --> 00:03:17,655 - Thank you, your honor. - Our next witness 41 00:03:17,697 --> 00:03:19,741 is Eileen Franklin-Lipsker. 42 00:03:20,325 --> 00:03:22,368 Can you come all the way forward 43 00:03:22,410 --> 00:03:24,704 to the witness stand, please? 44 00:03:26,998 --> 00:03:29,209 You do solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to give 45 00:03:29,250 --> 00:03:32,170 will be the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 46 00:03:32,212 --> 00:03:33,922 - so help you God? - Yes. 47 00:03:39,802 --> 00:03:42,931 Eileen, how old are you? 48 00:03:43,806 --> 00:03:44,849 Twenty-nine. 49 00:03:44,891 --> 00:03:46,601 - Are you married? - Yes. 50 00:03:46,643 --> 00:03:48,561 - And what city do you live in? - Canoga Park. 51 00:03:48,603 --> 00:03:49,938 Do you have children? 52 00:03:49,979 --> 00:03:53,191 - Yes. - What are their ages and gender? 53 00:03:53,233 --> 00:03:56,819 My daughter is six and a half and my son is three and a half. 54 00:03:58,780 --> 00:04:00,406 Do you have brothers and sisters? 55 00:04:00,448 --> 00:04:01,950 Yes, I do. 56 00:04:01,991 --> 00:04:03,701 And how many sisters do you have? 57 00:04:03,743 --> 00:04:05,495 I have three sisters. 58 00:04:05,536 --> 00:04:08,998 - And their names are...? - Kate, Janice and Diana. 59 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,918 - And your brother is George Jr? - Yes. 60 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,212 Where do you fall in the birth order? 61 00:04:14,254 --> 00:04:15,922 I'm in the middle. 62 00:04:15,964 --> 00:04:18,174 Of the five children, you are number three? 63 00:04:18,216 --> 00:04:19,592 Yes. 64 00:04:28,059 --> 00:04:30,019 What is your mother's name? 65 00:04:30,061 --> 00:04:32,021 Leah. 66 00:04:32,063 --> 00:04:34,107 And is your father present in court? 67 00:04:34,148 --> 00:04:35,525 Yes. 68 00:04:48,788 --> 00:04:52,333 Had about a 15-year career in the law before 69 00:04:52,375 --> 00:04:54,168 I got into writing books. 70 00:04:56,004 --> 00:04:58,256 My agent calls one day and said, 71 00:04:58,298 --> 00:05:00,550 "Have you seen this story about the repressed memory? 72 00:05:00,591 --> 00:05:03,011 The women claimed to recover 73 00:05:03,052 --> 00:05:05,513 a memory of her father murdering her playmate. 74 00:05:05,555 --> 00:05:07,265 "I said, no, I hadn't." 75 00:05:08,641 --> 00:05:12,854 It was the first murder case involving a repressed memory. 76 00:05:14,105 --> 00:05:19,277 I was fascinated to see how that would work in the trial. 77 00:05:19,319 --> 00:05:20,903 If it stood all alone, 78 00:05:20,945 --> 00:05:23,156 would it be sufficient for a conviction? 79 00:05:26,159 --> 00:05:27,827 I sat through the trial. 80 00:05:29,537 --> 00:05:33,916 And Eileen is such a dramatic witness. 81 00:05:34,709 --> 00:05:37,003 She's very beautiful. 82 00:05:37,045 --> 00:05:40,173 She's articulate, she's emotional. 83 00:05:42,008 --> 00:05:44,177 And he's sitting there the whole time 84 00:05:44,218 --> 00:05:46,179 like a stone figure. 85 00:05:48,222 --> 00:05:50,850 And every now and then he'll move his head like this 86 00:05:50,892 --> 00:05:54,562 and an odd little smile will flit across his face. 87 00:05:56,397 --> 00:05:58,274 It's like, who is he smiling at, 88 00:05:58,316 --> 00:05:59,859 what does he think is funny? 89 00:06:01,152 --> 00:06:04,197 So it starts to right away turn into 90 00:06:04,238 --> 00:06:07,492 - a good versus evil thing. - He looks evil. 91 00:06:15,124 --> 00:06:17,960 Do you recall the last time you saw Susan Nason? 92 00:06:18,002 --> 00:06:19,212 Yes. 93 00:06:20,838 --> 00:06:23,549 Do you know now of the date of that event, 94 00:06:23,591 --> 00:06:25,385 - when you last saw her? - Yes. 95 00:06:25,426 --> 00:06:29,889 - What date is that? - -September 22nd, 1969. 96 00:06:33,559 --> 00:06:36,062 On the witness stand, 97 00:06:36,104 --> 00:06:41,234 she was the most compelling witness I have ever seen 98 00:06:42,610 --> 00:06:45,071 in 31 years as a prosecutor. 99 00:06:45,822 --> 00:06:51,077 What we were there to do was to prove that George Franklin 100 00:06:51,119 --> 00:06:54,705 had murdered an innocent child, Susan Nason, whose parents, 101 00:06:54,747 --> 00:06:56,749 Margaret and Don Nason, 102 00:06:56,791 --> 00:07:02,004 had suffered for 20 years not knowing who did this and why. 103 00:07:03,589 --> 00:07:05,591 We had to explain to the jury 104 00:07:05,633 --> 00:07:07,593 that she had witnessed her father commit 105 00:07:07,635 --> 00:07:09,929 a murder and that she did repress it. 106 00:07:11,264 --> 00:07:15,393 And then suddenly, out of the blue, 20 years later, 107 00:07:15,435 --> 00:07:16,978 her memory came back to her. 108 00:07:17,019 --> 00:07:19,814 This wasn't going to be a simple, 109 00:07:19,856 --> 00:07:23,609 straightforward eyewitness to a murder case. 110 00:07:25,236 --> 00:07:28,364 In San Mateo County, this was the first repressed 111 00:07:28,406 --> 00:07:31,284 memory case that we had ever dealt with. 112 00:07:32,660 --> 00:07:34,787 And we checked around the state. 113 00:07:34,829 --> 00:07:37,123 I believe we didn't find anybody else 114 00:07:37,165 --> 00:07:39,292 in the state who had experienced this type of 115 00:07:39,333 --> 00:07:41,794 a thing. So it was new in that sense. 116 00:07:41,836 --> 00:07:43,713 And I would say not just 117 00:07:43,754 --> 00:07:46,632 for murder type of a case-- in any case. 118 00:07:50,261 --> 00:07:53,139 I think we were very worried about how it would play out 119 00:07:53,181 --> 00:07:56,934 in court. What will 12 citizens on 120 00:07:56,976 --> 00:07:59,312 the street, who have no experience or knowledge 121 00:07:59,353 --> 00:08:02,482 in crime, justice, 122 00:08:02,523 --> 00:08:06,194 memory, repressed memory-- 123 00:08:06,235 --> 00:08:08,779 how are they going to react to it? 124 00:08:09,405 --> 00:08:13,326 Will they sit there and say, "This sounds suspicious, phony? 125 00:08:13,367 --> 00:08:16,120 How could it be?" Or will they sit there and say, "Yeah, 126 00:08:16,162 --> 00:08:18,206 I can understand how that happened"? 127 00:08:18,247 --> 00:08:21,209 So we did recognize perhaps we were hooking the horse 128 00:08:21,250 --> 00:08:23,961 up to the plow and making new ground here. 129 00:08:27,298 --> 00:08:29,467 Eileen, what city did you live in 130 00:08:29,509 --> 00:08:30,843 when you were in fourth grade? 131 00:08:30,885 --> 00:08:32,803 In Foster City. 132 00:08:35,723 --> 00:08:38,684 Can you describe what that area was like at that time? 133 00:08:40,311 --> 00:08:42,939 It was just beginning to be built up. 134 00:08:42,980 --> 00:08:46,359 There were open fields everywhere. 135 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,696 And just one or two small neighborhoods. 136 00:08:51,531 --> 00:08:54,867 Young couples with children. 137 00:08:58,162 --> 00:09:01,374 My family moved to Foster City in 1964. 138 00:09:01,874 --> 00:09:04,961 We were one of the first 100 or so families. 139 00:09:06,420 --> 00:09:08,548 Most of the families that moved down here 140 00:09:08,589 --> 00:09:11,801 were blue collar families that had two, three, four kids 141 00:09:11,842 --> 00:09:13,594 in their household. 142 00:09:13,636 --> 00:09:18,224 So it was a unique experience growing up with the city. 143 00:09:22,937 --> 00:09:24,647 Foster City is located on 144 00:09:24,689 --> 00:09:29,068 the peninsula, smack between San Francisco and San Jose. 145 00:09:29,777 --> 00:09:32,280 It was a very safe area. 146 00:09:32,321 --> 00:09:34,907 Everybody was looking out for everyone. 147 00:09:36,909 --> 00:09:38,911 We moved into our house the same day 148 00:09:38,953 --> 00:09:40,621 the Franklins moved into their house. 149 00:09:40,663 --> 00:09:43,082 We literally were all moving in at the same time. 150 00:09:45,209 --> 00:09:48,004 The Franklin house was basically directly across 151 00:09:48,045 --> 00:09:49,630 the street from my house. 152 00:09:50,339 --> 00:09:55,261 Leah Franklin, the mom, was about 22 or 23 years old, 153 00:09:55,303 --> 00:09:57,263 and she already had five children. 154 00:09:58,222 --> 00:10:01,809 haunting vocalization 155 00:10:06,063 --> 00:10:09,775 The kids were very energetic, running around, 156 00:10:09,817 --> 00:10:13,529 and they were loud and playing 157 00:10:13,571 --> 00:10:15,281 and fighting with each other. 158 00:10:16,741 --> 00:10:20,328 Eileen was probably the quietest of the bunch. 159 00:10:20,870 --> 00:10:23,289 She was definitely George's favorite. 160 00:10:23,331 --> 00:10:26,125 - He had a nickname for her. - It was Pooh. 161 00:10:27,835 --> 00:10:30,254 When I was growing up, I was... 162 00:10:30,296 --> 00:10:32,590 ...not a very attractive child. 163 00:10:32,632 --> 00:10:36,636 I had bright freckles all over my face and long red hair 164 00:10:36,677 --> 00:10:39,972 and buckteeth, and my dad used to tell me how beautiful 165 00:10:40,014 --> 00:10:41,974 I was when everyone else in the neighborhood 166 00:10:42,016 --> 00:10:44,226 told me how ugly I was. 167 00:10:46,562 --> 00:10:49,357 - And he was irresistible. - When we went out in public, 168 00:10:49,398 --> 00:10:52,026 the waitresses would flirt with him 169 00:10:52,068 --> 00:10:54,236 and women would look at him. 170 00:10:54,278 --> 00:10:57,531 I thought, "My daddy is so handsome and so smart 171 00:10:57,573 --> 00:10:59,992 and so attractive." I just thought he was it. 172 00:11:02,036 --> 00:11:05,081 My dad and I loved each other very, very much. 173 00:11:07,166 --> 00:11:09,460 George Franklin was probably the friendliest 174 00:11:09,502 --> 00:11:14,507 neighbor on the street. They were our next door neighbors 175 00:11:14,548 --> 00:11:18,761 - on my kitchen side. - Our kitchens were back to back. 176 00:11:20,388 --> 00:11:22,848 George Franklin was always beaming. 177 00:11:22,890 --> 00:11:25,518 In fact, I named him a little joke name, 178 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,353 but I won't go there. 179 00:11:27,395 --> 00:11:30,022 I named him Old Flirty Flirt. 180 00:11:30,064 --> 00:11:31,816 That's what I named him. 181 00:11:32,942 --> 00:11:35,736 I never heard anything out of order 182 00:11:35,778 --> 00:11:37,905 that was going on in that house. 183 00:11:39,407 --> 00:11:41,075 Never. 184 00:11:43,744 --> 00:11:46,914 My dad was a firefighter with George Franklin. 185 00:11:47,540 --> 00:11:50,584 My dad thought he was a good firefighter. No question. 186 00:11:50,626 --> 00:11:53,421 When the bell rang, he was there to answer it. 187 00:11:54,797 --> 00:11:58,259 The Franklin daughters took dance from my mom. 188 00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:01,220 She had a studio in the house. 189 00:12:02,263 --> 00:12:05,099 Eileen was here all the time. 190 00:12:06,183 --> 00:12:09,729 I don't remember anything that was suspicious 191 00:12:09,770 --> 00:12:13,399 or odd that would lead you to believe that there is any 192 00:12:13,441 --> 00:12:16,986 particular problems at that house. 193 00:12:17,194 --> 00:12:19,238 George Franklin to the outside world 194 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:24,410 was a married father of five. Firefighter. 195 00:12:24,452 --> 00:12:27,413 I think that was the way he was perceived 196 00:12:27,455 --> 00:12:28,914 in the neighborhood. 197 00:12:29,540 --> 00:12:32,293 Mr. Joe Average Citizen. 198 00:12:35,629 --> 00:12:38,758 Eileen, what school did you attend? 199 00:12:38,799 --> 00:12:40,593 Foster City School. 200 00:12:40,634 --> 00:12:43,471 And what year was it that you started fourth grade? 201 00:12:43,512 --> 00:12:45,473 1969. 202 00:12:46,015 --> 00:12:48,768 When you were that age and in that grade, 203 00:12:48,809 --> 00:12:50,394 who was your closest friend? 204 00:12:52,271 --> 00:12:53,606 Susan. 205 00:12:53,647 --> 00:12:57,526 - Susan who? - -Susan-- Susan Nason. 206 00:12:58,652 --> 00:13:00,488 Would you like a drink of water? 207 00:13:00,529 --> 00:13:02,323 No, I'm fine. 208 00:13:02,364 --> 00:13:05,117 Let me know if you would like a drink of water. 209 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,287 Were you and Susan in the same class 210 00:13:08,329 --> 00:13:09,872 at Foster City Elementary? 211 00:13:09,914 --> 00:13:12,249 - I don't remember. - Were you in the same grade? 212 00:13:12,291 --> 00:13:14,418 - Yes. - The same age? 213 00:13:14,460 --> 00:13:16,128 Yes. 214 00:13:16,170 --> 00:13:18,255 What was the nature of your friendship? 215 00:13:18,297 --> 00:13:20,216 We were best friends. 216 00:13:36,023 --> 00:13:37,775 Good morning, Mrs. Nason. 217 00:13:37,817 --> 00:13:39,151 Good morning. 218 00:13:39,193 --> 00:13:40,778 Could you tell the judge 219 00:13:40,820 --> 00:13:43,697 where you were living on September 22nd, 1969? 220 00:13:43,739 --> 00:13:45,991 In Foster City. 221 00:13:47,660 --> 00:13:49,411 At 1155 Balclutha Drive. 222 00:13:52,665 --> 00:13:54,959 Did Susan come home from school that Monday, 223 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,546 - September 22nd? - Yes, she did. 224 00:13:58,587 --> 00:14:02,132 And what happened after she came home? 225 00:14:03,300 --> 00:14:06,345 Well, she came home with... 226 00:14:06,387 --> 00:14:09,306 ...schoolbooks and a bag 227 00:14:09,348 --> 00:14:12,560 with a friend's shoes in them. 228 00:14:12,601 --> 00:14:14,645 Do you know what friend that was? 229 00:14:14,687 --> 00:14:16,772 That was Celia Oakley. 230 00:14:16,814 --> 00:14:19,149 I saw the shoes in the bag 231 00:14:19,191 --> 00:14:22,695 and she said she wanted to return them to Celia right away. 232 00:14:24,488 --> 00:14:28,367 - Did you okay that? - -Yes, I-- I let her go. 233 00:15:03,402 --> 00:15:06,238 I left some tennis shoes at school. 234 00:15:07,656 --> 00:15:11,827 And Susie was kind enough to bring them over to my house 235 00:15:11,869 --> 00:15:13,746 after school for me. 236 00:15:13,787 --> 00:15:17,374 I remember opening the door and seeing her there, 237 00:15:17,416 --> 00:15:21,587 and she handed me the bag of shoes and I thanked her. 238 00:15:21,629 --> 00:15:25,090 I closed the door and she left. 239 00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:29,094 The police were able to deduce that I was 240 00:15:29,136 --> 00:15:31,263 the last person to see Susie. 241 00:15:34,141 --> 00:15:37,019 After about an hour, 242 00:15:37,061 --> 00:15:40,272 I started looking for her. 243 00:15:40,314 --> 00:15:43,609 I rode all the streets in the neighborhood. 244 00:15:44,818 --> 00:15:47,363 No one had seen her. 245 00:15:51,450 --> 00:15:55,412 I want to appeal to anyone who has any information 246 00:15:55,454 --> 00:15:58,415 that can bring my daughter back to me. 247 00:15:58,457 --> 00:16:01,669 Anything that you see, or find, or hear, 248 00:16:01,710 --> 00:16:05,422 - please tell the police. - Notify someone. 249 00:16:07,007 --> 00:16:08,968 I just want my daughter back. 250 00:16:09,009 --> 00:16:13,222 - More than anything in the world. - And I keep praying. 251 00:16:13,263 --> 00:16:16,141 Please bring her back. 252 00:16:17,559 --> 00:16:19,186 Please. 253 00:16:33,534 --> 00:16:35,494 Foster City police come. 254 00:16:35,536 --> 00:16:39,331 They organize a neighborhood search. 255 00:16:40,874 --> 00:16:44,920 They have over 100 people and they start canvassing 256 00:16:44,962 --> 00:16:46,880 the neighborhood. 257 00:16:47,464 --> 00:16:51,510 The police came and questioned me about every 258 00:16:51,552 --> 00:16:55,681 little detail. Where I was, who I was with, 259 00:16:55,723 --> 00:16:58,892 if I had seen anything unusual. 260 00:16:59,935 --> 00:17:03,522 There was a knock on the door and it was 261 00:17:03,564 --> 00:17:05,399 the Foster City police. 262 00:17:05,441 --> 00:17:07,526 They wanted to know if I'd seen her after school. 263 00:17:07,568 --> 00:17:09,528 When was the last time? 264 00:17:11,196 --> 00:17:15,117 I'm not sure I really knew the extent of what was going on 265 00:17:15,159 --> 00:17:18,746 as a nine-year-old, but it was scary. 266 00:17:19,288 --> 00:17:21,749 It'll be a week tomorrow since the girl vanished 267 00:17:21,790 --> 00:17:25,919 from her Foster City home on the San Francisco peninsula. 268 00:17:25,961 --> 00:17:28,338 Kidnapping is suspected. 269 00:17:29,798 --> 00:17:32,634 Local authorities have conducted both air 270 00:17:32,676 --> 00:17:35,220 and water searches in the past several days. 271 00:17:37,598 --> 00:17:39,892 Foster City's built on the water. 272 00:17:41,101 --> 00:17:43,228 They had boats out there. 273 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,940 There were divers searching the lagoons. 274 00:17:48,108 --> 00:17:52,154 No one suspected anybody in Foster City. 275 00:17:52,613 --> 00:17:57,701 It had to be some sort of boogeyman theory. 276 00:17:57,743 --> 00:18:01,038 That it had to be somebody that came in from outside 277 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,666 of our community to do something this vicious. 278 00:18:04,708 --> 00:18:07,169 George Franklin participated as one 279 00:18:07,211 --> 00:18:09,338 of the neighbors involved in the search 280 00:18:09,379 --> 00:18:11,590 the night that Susan went missing. 281 00:18:13,008 --> 00:18:17,387 They don't have any sense that he might be somehow 282 00:18:17,429 --> 00:18:19,598 responsible for what's happened. 283 00:18:20,474 --> 00:18:22,935 The cops don't talk to Eileen, 284 00:18:22,976 --> 00:18:26,563 although Eileen is Susan's best friend. 285 00:18:27,064 --> 00:18:31,568 No one ever thought that she was a witness to the crime. 286 00:18:32,444 --> 00:18:35,739 Her teacher, Mrs. Larkin, 287 00:18:35,781 --> 00:18:39,493 said, "Every day the children would come to school 288 00:18:39,535 --> 00:18:42,287 and sit in their desks, and every day 289 00:18:42,329 --> 00:18:45,916 I would check off every name on the list, 290 00:18:45,958 --> 00:18:49,545 and next to Susan's name, I would put an A for absent. 291 00:18:50,003 --> 00:18:54,716 And that went on for ten weeks until her body was found. 292 00:18:54,758 --> 00:18:57,803 And then I had to put a line through her name." 293 00:19:07,146 --> 00:19:11,984 It was approximately a mile and a half west 294 00:19:12,025 --> 00:19:15,195 of the Crystal Springs Lakes and on the south side 295 00:19:15,237 --> 00:19:17,281 of Highway 92. 296 00:19:23,620 --> 00:19:25,956 I just walked down over the bank. 297 00:19:25,998 --> 00:19:29,751 There was kind of a trail there, and I just walked out. 298 00:19:29,793 --> 00:19:32,171 What was it that first caught your attention 299 00:19:32,212 --> 00:19:33,881 when you went down there? 300 00:19:33,922 --> 00:19:36,550 Well, this old bedspring that was there. 301 00:19:36,592 --> 00:19:39,344 And just looking around like I do, 302 00:19:39,386 --> 00:19:42,848 I just happened to look down through the springs and I 303 00:19:43,265 --> 00:19:47,102 saw this material of clothing and I guess I just looked closer 304 00:19:47,144 --> 00:19:50,022 and I could see that it was a small body. 305 00:19:50,689 --> 00:19:54,026 Could you tell what condition the body was in? 306 00:19:54,067 --> 00:19:57,905 - It was a decomposed body. - Of a child. 307 00:20:10,417 --> 00:20:12,169 Here's where a young Susan Nason's 308 00:20:12,211 --> 00:20:14,713 badly decomposed body, her skull smashed, 309 00:20:14,755 --> 00:20:16,381 was found Tuesday morning 310 00:20:16,423 --> 00:20:18,383 some 70 days after she vanished without 311 00:20:18,425 --> 00:20:22,346 a trace from her Foster City home just 11 miles away. 312 00:20:22,387 --> 00:20:26,016 The area is a jumble of overgrown bushes off Highway 92 313 00:20:26,058 --> 00:20:30,604 in the middle of the Crystal Springs reservoir watershed. 314 00:20:34,233 --> 00:20:37,277 We have a huge reservoir in this county, 315 00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:39,112 the Crystal Springs Reservoir, 316 00:20:39,154 --> 00:20:41,865 that is a watershed that provides drinking water 317 00:20:41,907 --> 00:20:46,245 to San Francisco and many other places. 318 00:20:47,287 --> 00:20:50,749 And there's a highway running from Foster City 319 00:20:50,791 --> 00:20:54,419 all the way out to the city of Half Moon Bay. 320 00:20:56,713 --> 00:20:59,591 The reservoir is kind of a sacred place. 321 00:20:59,633 --> 00:21:03,262 It's pristine, it's beautiful, it's sacrosanct. 322 00:21:03,303 --> 00:21:05,722 And lo and behold, 323 00:21:05,764 --> 00:21:08,642 there were the remains of a child. 324 00:21:12,437 --> 00:21:16,400 A bottom or a watershed keeper described how 325 00:21:16,441 --> 00:21:17,734 he found the body. 326 00:21:17,776 --> 00:21:19,611 Oh, I just-- hiking around like 327 00:21:19,653 --> 00:21:21,280 I generally do each day, 328 00:21:21,321 --> 00:21:26,076 and I happen to notice an old bedsprings there. 329 00:21:26,118 --> 00:21:29,621 And I looked down through the springs and I saw the skull. 330 00:21:35,502 --> 00:21:38,297 What remains now is to piece together something 331 00:21:38,338 --> 00:21:39,840 from all this that will lead to 332 00:21:39,881 --> 00:21:42,301 the identity of that mad killer who killed young 333 00:21:42,342 --> 00:21:46,805 Susan Nason. The immediate area will be searched totally. 334 00:21:52,185 --> 00:21:56,315 What they find there is the body itself 335 00:21:56,356 --> 00:21:58,108 pretty much mummified. 336 00:22:02,362 --> 00:22:04,823 They find a rock 337 00:22:04,865 --> 00:22:08,118 which has hair and blood on it. 338 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,164 They also find a silver ring that's been crushed 339 00:22:12,205 --> 00:22:15,709 and the stones of which are missing. 340 00:22:21,214 --> 00:22:26,178 The Foster City police chief takes the clothes 341 00:22:26,219 --> 00:22:28,680 to the Nason household, 342 00:22:29,097 --> 00:22:33,685 and Margaret recognizes the A-line dress 343 00:22:33,727 --> 00:22:36,855 as something that she's sewn for Susan. 344 00:22:38,231 --> 00:22:41,026 Of course, we had... 345 00:22:41,651 --> 00:22:45,238 ...never given up hope that she would be found. 346 00:22:48,283 --> 00:22:50,410 What about you, Mrs. Nason? 347 00:22:50,702 --> 00:22:53,705 Well, there was always a slim chance. 348 00:22:53,747 --> 00:22:55,707 I think deep down underneath 349 00:22:55,749 --> 00:22:59,920 we knew that she wasn't alive. 350 00:23:02,964 --> 00:23:06,301 - It was shocking. - It was, "This can't be." 351 00:23:06,343 --> 00:23:09,346 This is one of those classic stories of, 352 00:23:09,388 --> 00:23:11,223 "This doesn't happen here." 353 00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:17,312 Although we're surrounded by big cities that have typical 354 00:23:17,354 --> 00:23:19,815 big city crime, we don't. 355 00:23:20,190 --> 00:23:23,068 So when we get notorious crimes, 356 00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:26,905 it's enormously significant to the members of this community. 357 00:23:29,366 --> 00:23:32,994 The panic grew more and more because the panic was, 358 00:23:33,036 --> 00:23:35,205 the killer is still out there. 359 00:23:35,247 --> 00:23:39,501 Susan Nason's killer could be my nextdoor neighbor. 360 00:23:40,127 --> 00:23:42,212 It could be random. 361 00:23:42,254 --> 00:23:44,589 And people were fearful. 362 00:23:46,299 --> 00:23:50,053 All the kids were becoming paranoid that there was 363 00:23:50,095 --> 00:23:52,556 someone after them in the neighborhood. 364 00:23:54,516 --> 00:23:57,561 And we would always be looking over our shoulder to see 365 00:23:57,602 --> 00:23:59,938 if there was a car following us. 366 00:24:02,232 --> 00:24:05,402 The investigation went out with a whimper, 367 00:24:05,444 --> 00:24:10,157 more than a bang. Weeks became months, became years. 368 00:24:11,658 --> 00:24:14,953 It just kind of went away with time. 369 00:24:20,333 --> 00:24:22,294 Fast forward 20 years. 370 00:24:23,628 --> 00:24:26,965 Eileen Franklin-Lipsker 371 00:24:27,007 --> 00:24:31,219 is a 28-year-old housewife living in Canoga Park, 372 00:24:31,261 --> 00:24:35,056 a suburb of L.A., with two children and her husband. 373 00:24:37,434 --> 00:24:41,313 And that's when the pieces start to come together 374 00:24:41,354 --> 00:24:46,735 for her and she realizes that she witnessed the crime. 375 00:24:48,820 --> 00:24:53,825 At the trial, you start to get the story. 376 00:24:53,867 --> 00:24:56,453 And this is the first time 377 00:24:56,745 --> 00:25:00,832 that Eileen has really told what happened 378 00:25:00,874 --> 00:25:03,168 when she recovered the memory. 379 00:25:06,254 --> 00:25:09,674 Well, I was sitting on the sofa in my family room. 380 00:25:09,716 --> 00:25:11,927 And my daughter was playing on 381 00:25:11,968 --> 00:25:14,513 the floor with some of her little playmates. 382 00:25:14,804 --> 00:25:18,391 And my daughter said something to me which caused me 383 00:25:18,433 --> 00:25:23,647 to look down at her, and I matched her gaze. 384 00:25:23,688 --> 00:25:26,066 And at that moment, 385 00:25:28,026 --> 00:25:31,696 she very closely resembled Susan. 386 00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:39,663 And I remembered... 387 00:25:39,704 --> 00:25:43,166 ...seeing Susan sitting there 388 00:25:43,208 --> 00:25:45,919 and seeing my father with the rock above his head. 389 00:25:51,216 --> 00:25:53,218 Can you show us what position your father's hands 390 00:25:53,260 --> 00:25:55,387 were in when you saw him holding the rock? 391 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,474 He had both of his hands above his head like this, 392 00:25:59,516 --> 00:26:01,059 turned this way. 393 00:26:03,770 --> 00:26:05,564 Over a period of time, 394 00:26:05,605 --> 00:26:10,235 the details of the memory came back in bits and pieces. 395 00:26:11,403 --> 00:26:14,573 She discusses it with her husband, Barry. 396 00:26:15,282 --> 00:26:18,618 District attorney's office, Edder speaking. 397 00:26:28,044 --> 00:26:32,090 We do get people who call up and they're doing it for 398 00:26:32,132 --> 00:26:33,758 a million phony reasons, 399 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,012 whether it be cheap publicity or whatever it may be. 400 00:26:37,053 --> 00:26:39,180 That's not an uncommon experience. 401 00:26:39,222 --> 00:26:41,725 So when I initially heard it, I said, "Interesting," 402 00:26:41,766 --> 00:26:45,228 and I urged investigators, "Play it out, get it to 403 00:26:45,270 --> 00:26:46,938 the point where Eileen's going to talk fully 404 00:26:46,980 --> 00:26:48,607 and see what you have. 405 00:26:48,648 --> 00:26:52,027 They asked if she would be willing to be interviewed 406 00:26:52,068 --> 00:26:55,238 in depth about her recollections of what happened 407 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,949 on September 22nd, 20 years earlier, 408 00:26:57,991 --> 00:27:01,578 - and the arrangements were made. - Two detectives. 409 00:27:01,620 --> 00:27:04,623 Bob Morse and Brian Cassandro flew down to L.A. 410 00:27:04,664 --> 00:27:07,959 and went out to Canoga Park to interview her in her home. 411 00:27:13,173 --> 00:27:17,594 Location is 20458 Blithe in Canoga Park. 412 00:27:17,636 --> 00:27:19,971 Detective Sergeant Bob Morse. 413 00:27:20,013 --> 00:27:23,141 Detective Brian Cassandro. Would you state your full name, ma'am? 414 00:27:23,183 --> 00:27:24,934 Eileen Elizabeth Franklin-Lipsker. 415 00:27:24,976 --> 00:27:27,187 Is it okay if I call you Eileen? 416 00:27:27,228 --> 00:27:29,606 Yes. 417 00:27:29,648 --> 00:27:31,399 Eileen, I was notified by 418 00:27:31,441 --> 00:27:34,027 the District Attorney's office that they had received 419 00:27:34,069 --> 00:27:36,279 a telephone call from your husband with regard 420 00:27:36,321 --> 00:27:40,325 to a murder that had occurred in 1969, correct? 421 00:27:40,367 --> 00:27:41,826 Yes. 422 00:27:41,868 --> 00:27:44,287 First thing any good detective will do, 423 00:27:44,329 --> 00:27:47,248 and they did, was get to know the person, 424 00:27:47,290 --> 00:27:51,127 and then just try to very softly set the stage. 425 00:27:51,169 --> 00:27:53,838 "- We're here. We're open minded. - We just want to hear from you." 426 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,216 And initially, you let the person talk. 427 00:27:56,841 --> 00:28:00,011 Could you start and tell me what happened? 428 00:28:00,595 --> 00:28:05,684 The way I remember it, we were at the reservoirs. 429 00:28:06,267 --> 00:28:09,562 I saw my friend Susan just sitting there, 430 00:28:09,604 --> 00:28:11,398 you know, sitting on a rock 431 00:28:11,439 --> 00:28:14,025 or sitting on something that was slightly elevated, 432 00:28:14,067 --> 00:28:15,985 and when I looked up, 433 00:28:16,027 --> 00:28:20,990 my father had a rock in his two hands, 434 00:28:21,616 --> 00:28:23,201 and was approaching her. 435 00:28:23,952 --> 00:28:26,121 And Susan screamed 436 00:28:26,162 --> 00:28:28,164 and brought her hand to her head. 437 00:28:28,581 --> 00:28:33,044 And he crashed the rock down against her head 438 00:28:33,086 --> 00:28:35,797 where her hands were. 439 00:28:35,839 --> 00:28:40,218 And he did a second blow. 440 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,930 And I must have started running 441 00:28:43,972 --> 00:28:46,349 because he grabbed me and knocked me onto the ground 442 00:28:46,391 --> 00:28:49,310 and held my face down into the ground, 443 00:28:49,352 --> 00:28:53,481 and he told me that if I ever told anyone about this, 444 00:28:53,523 --> 00:28:55,316 he would kill me, 445 00:28:56,067 --> 00:28:59,654 and he kept holding me down 446 00:28:59,696 --> 00:29:01,531 for so long, 447 00:29:01,573 --> 00:29:04,993 had my face into the leaves and stuff on the ground, 448 00:29:05,034 --> 00:29:07,746 and then finally he let me up 449 00:29:07,787 --> 00:29:11,249 and he held me with me sitting on his lap, 450 00:29:11,291 --> 00:29:14,753 and he told me that this was just between us 451 00:29:14,794 --> 00:29:18,006 and that it was over now and I had to just forget it. 452 00:29:19,841 --> 00:29:21,593 It's been 20 years. 453 00:29:21,634 --> 00:29:25,138 Why weren't you here back in 1969, 1970, 454 00:29:25,180 --> 00:29:26,765 or anywhere along the way? 455 00:29:26,806 --> 00:29:30,351 Why weren't you reporting what your memory was? 456 00:29:30,393 --> 00:29:32,395 Her account was, 457 00:29:32,437 --> 00:29:35,482 "I had no memory of this for 20 years. 458 00:29:35,523 --> 00:29:37,734 And the memory came back to me in this way 459 00:29:37,776 --> 00:29:39,360 and it came back to me in pieces." 460 00:29:39,402 --> 00:29:41,613 I don't think any of us could even imagine 461 00:29:41,654 --> 00:29:44,407 what it would be like to witness our parent 462 00:29:44,449 --> 00:29:46,534 murder our friend, 463 00:29:46,576 --> 00:29:49,746 and then be threatened and coerced. 464 00:29:49,788 --> 00:29:52,832 "If you tell anyone, I'll have to kill you." 465 00:29:55,919 --> 00:29:57,712 When I became involved in the case, 466 00:29:57,754 --> 00:30:02,634 I didn't know anything about repressed memory. 467 00:30:02,675 --> 00:30:05,136 I heard what she said and I thought, 468 00:30:05,178 --> 00:30:07,430 "I believe that's possible, 469 00:30:07,472 --> 00:30:09,432 but I want to learn more about it." 470 00:30:09,474 --> 00:30:13,728 I cracked open the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual 471 00:30:13,770 --> 00:30:16,648 of the American Psychiatric Association, 472 00:30:16,689 --> 00:30:19,317 basically the Bible of psychiatrists. 473 00:30:19,818 --> 00:30:24,614 It was definitely recognized as something that does exist. 474 00:30:31,704 --> 00:30:33,790 The issue of repression and dissociation 475 00:30:33,832 --> 00:30:36,626 has always been in psychiatry. 476 00:30:36,668 --> 00:30:40,046 People started to write about it in the 1870s, 477 00:30:40,088 --> 00:30:42,382 and it is always a well-known phenomenon, 478 00:30:42,423 --> 00:30:45,885 that after horrendous experiences, 479 00:30:45,927 --> 00:30:48,972 people couldn't remember things. 480 00:30:50,557 --> 00:30:53,685 The trauma itself messes up your mind. 481 00:30:53,726 --> 00:30:58,898 The mind, brain, body creates a capacity 482 00:30:58,940 --> 00:31:01,025 to just push things away 483 00:31:01,067 --> 00:31:02,819 and put it out of consciousness, 484 00:31:02,861 --> 00:31:04,946 which is a normal reaction. 485 00:31:06,406 --> 00:31:08,867 Your brain self-processing information 486 00:31:08,908 --> 00:31:12,370 and has to defend itself 487 00:31:12,412 --> 00:31:14,372 against what's happening. 488 00:31:14,414 --> 00:31:17,458 And it shuts things down so you get little pieces 489 00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:19,419 and fragments of the whole thing. 490 00:31:32,390 --> 00:31:34,684 The whole term, "repressed memory," 491 00:31:34,726 --> 00:31:37,186 it's simply a way of describing memories 492 00:31:37,228 --> 00:31:40,023 that are more difficult than usual 493 00:31:40,064 --> 00:31:42,191 to bring into consciousness. 494 00:31:42,817 --> 00:31:44,277 They may be difficult 495 00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:46,696 because they're painful to remember 496 00:31:46,738 --> 00:31:48,448 or they say something awful about you. 497 00:31:48,489 --> 00:31:50,241 They often occur in situations 498 00:31:50,283 --> 00:31:52,785 that has been called "betrayal trauma," 499 00:31:52,827 --> 00:31:55,288 in which somebody who is supposed to love and protect you 500 00:31:55,330 --> 00:31:57,790 does something horrible to you. 501 00:32:00,043 --> 00:32:02,378 Well, the greatest conflict is the fact that 502 00:32:02,420 --> 00:32:04,631 I loved my father so much and I adored him, 503 00:32:04,672 --> 00:32:07,050 and that I believe that he loved me. 504 00:32:08,718 --> 00:32:10,053 It's almost a love story 505 00:32:10,094 --> 00:32:12,430 because I cared for him so deeply. 506 00:32:12,472 --> 00:32:14,599 And that's why it was so difficult to come forward. 507 00:32:14,641 --> 00:32:17,602 It was so painfully difficult. 508 00:32:18,019 --> 00:32:20,688 How do you maintain that awareness? 509 00:32:20,730 --> 00:32:22,941 You know, that the person you depend on for survival 510 00:32:22,982 --> 00:32:26,194 and you thought loved you is doing horrible things to you? 511 00:32:26,235 --> 00:32:28,863 The two images just don't go together. 512 00:32:28,905 --> 00:32:30,448 So one way of dealing with it 513 00:32:30,490 --> 00:32:32,617 is to just say it's either one or the other 514 00:32:32,659 --> 00:32:35,036 and I'm not going to remember both at the same time 515 00:32:35,078 --> 00:32:36,663 because it's too painful. 516 00:32:38,623 --> 00:32:40,833 And that was sort of the impression that 517 00:32:40,875 --> 00:32:43,461 I believe we were getting from Eileen, 518 00:32:43,503 --> 00:32:48,424 is that here is somebody suppressing a traumatic memory 519 00:32:48,466 --> 00:32:51,177 in order to be able to live their life 520 00:32:51,219 --> 00:32:53,680 without that dominating their life. 521 00:32:56,349 --> 00:32:58,518 We knew since we're dealing with 522 00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:00,895 this unique circumstance of repressed memory, 523 00:33:00,937 --> 00:33:03,648 we needed to be able to call an expert about, 524 00:33:03,690 --> 00:33:07,443 "Hey, what we have here, does that fit? Not fit?" 525 00:33:07,485 --> 00:33:10,822 And Lenore Terr was our expert. 526 00:33:10,863 --> 00:33:13,825 When one is traumatized, no matter how... 527 00:33:13,866 --> 00:33:16,494 Dr. Lenore Terr, an expert in childhood trauma, 528 00:33:16,536 --> 00:33:18,913 says extremely painful experiences 529 00:33:18,955 --> 00:33:22,750 can remain buried for years then unexpectedly resurface. 530 00:33:22,792 --> 00:33:26,421 The memory would come back because something evoked it, 531 00:33:26,462 --> 00:33:28,172 something just got it started. 532 00:33:28,214 --> 00:33:30,341 And it could be the time of year. 533 00:33:32,385 --> 00:33:34,846 It could be a sound. 534 00:33:37,348 --> 00:33:39,392 It could be a smell. 535 00:33:40,476 --> 00:33:42,812 It could be because one's own child is the same age 536 00:33:42,854 --> 00:33:45,356 that one was at the time of the event 537 00:33:45,398 --> 00:33:47,358 in the first place. 538 00:33:50,737 --> 00:33:54,741 A series of memories began and pieces just came and came. 539 00:33:54,782 --> 00:33:57,535 - I tried to stop them. - I tried to make it go away. 540 00:33:57,577 --> 00:33:59,495 I believed that I was going insane, 541 00:33:59,537 --> 00:34:02,498 that this couldn't possibly be normal, 542 00:34:02,540 --> 00:34:05,293 but they came and came and came. 543 00:34:05,334 --> 00:34:07,211 And after a while, there was just no denying 544 00:34:07,253 --> 00:34:09,297 that I had witnessed the murder 545 00:34:09,338 --> 00:34:11,591 and that my father had done it. 546 00:34:13,134 --> 00:34:16,637 After consulting psychiatrists and other experts, 547 00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:19,807 Elaine Tipton became convinced that Eileen had indeed 548 00:34:19,849 --> 00:34:22,894 repressed her memory as a survival mechanism. 549 00:34:22,935 --> 00:34:25,980 One of the things that I learned is that 550 00:34:26,022 --> 00:34:28,357 the retrieval of the memory has a lot to do with 551 00:34:28,399 --> 00:34:31,152 the person's readiness to remember. 552 00:34:32,445 --> 00:34:33,738 They no longer view themselves 553 00:34:33,780 --> 00:34:36,324 as vulnerable to the perpetrator, 554 00:34:36,365 --> 00:34:38,326 in most cases, the father. 555 00:34:38,367 --> 00:34:40,078 That was certainly true for Eileen. 556 00:34:44,207 --> 00:34:48,086 One day, Elaine Tipton came to my desk and said, 557 00:34:48,127 --> 00:34:49,837 "Guess what? 558 00:34:49,879 --> 00:34:52,256 You're going to assist in the investigation." 559 00:34:53,966 --> 00:34:55,885 Memory isn't evidence. 560 00:34:55,927 --> 00:34:59,639 It's the beginning of a case, maybe, but it's not evidence. 561 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,059 You need to back up that memory with evidence. 562 00:35:03,101 --> 00:35:06,395 So the next step was to further corroborate her statement. 563 00:35:06,437 --> 00:35:08,189 It was put on the front burner 564 00:35:08,231 --> 00:35:10,775 and things started rolling. 565 00:35:10,817 --> 00:35:13,069 The big thing is, is to take a look at 566 00:35:13,111 --> 00:35:15,238 what's been described to you, 567 00:35:15,279 --> 00:35:18,282 the statement that you've obtained from Eileen Franklin. 568 00:35:18,324 --> 00:35:20,201 You look at every minute detail 569 00:35:20,243 --> 00:35:21,786 to see if there are consistencies 570 00:35:21,828 --> 00:35:23,121 and inconsistencies. 571 00:35:23,162 --> 00:35:24,664 And then you go back and say, 572 00:35:24,705 --> 00:35:26,958 "Okay, let's look at the original case." 573 00:35:29,585 --> 00:35:31,754 I'd like to direct your attention 574 00:35:31,796 --> 00:35:36,092 to the afternoon of December 2nd of 1969. 575 00:35:36,134 --> 00:35:39,303 Did you on that day perform an autopsy on the remains 576 00:35:39,345 --> 00:35:40,972 of a young child? 577 00:35:41,013 --> 00:35:42,765 Yes, I did. 578 00:35:42,807 --> 00:35:45,643 Where was the first injury that you observed 579 00:35:45,685 --> 00:35:48,312 to the skeletal remains of Susan Nason? 580 00:35:48,646 --> 00:35:51,899 Well, there was a large defect in the skull 581 00:35:51,941 --> 00:35:53,568 on the right side. 582 00:35:53,609 --> 00:35:56,654 Can you indicate on your own skull 583 00:35:56,696 --> 00:35:58,823 where that injury was located? 584 00:35:58,865 --> 00:36:02,827 Yes, Counsel, it was on the right side towards the back. 585 00:36:13,588 --> 00:36:17,091 The information that she was providing 586 00:36:17,133 --> 00:36:22,013 was matching up identically with the facts of the crime. 587 00:36:23,264 --> 00:36:26,475 She said Susie was wearing brown shoes and white socks, 588 00:36:26,517 --> 00:36:28,519 which we knew she was. 589 00:36:29,312 --> 00:36:31,355 She said the dress was A-line. 590 00:36:32,398 --> 00:36:35,193 She described two blows to the head 591 00:36:35,234 --> 00:36:37,195 with an object such as 592 00:36:37,236 --> 00:36:39,697 the rocks that were recovered from the scene. 593 00:36:40,114 --> 00:36:45,494 But the most significant thing was that her friend's hand-- 594 00:36:45,536 --> 00:36:49,457 Susan's right hand-- was wounded, 595 00:36:49,498 --> 00:36:51,459 injured, bleeding, 596 00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:55,379 and she recalls noticing a silver ring 597 00:36:55,421 --> 00:36:57,381 and that the ring was damaged. 598 00:36:57,423 --> 00:37:01,636 You mentioned on the phone something about a crushed ring? 599 00:37:02,470 --> 00:37:04,013 She used to wear this, 600 00:37:04,055 --> 00:37:07,350 I think it was silver ring with-- 601 00:37:07,391 --> 00:37:09,268 it had a stone in it. 602 00:37:10,770 --> 00:37:13,064 And she had her hands up to her head. 603 00:37:13,105 --> 00:37:16,859 The rock came down and I saw the ring crushed. 604 00:37:18,277 --> 00:37:21,489 Doctor, did you observe any foreign object 605 00:37:21,530 --> 00:37:23,366 on the right hand of Susan Nason? 606 00:37:23,407 --> 00:37:25,034 - Yes, I did. - What was that? 607 00:37:25,076 --> 00:37:28,704 There was a white metal ring on the middle finger. 608 00:37:28,746 --> 00:37:31,415 What was the condition of that ring? 609 00:37:31,457 --> 00:37:33,000 that you observed? 610 00:37:33,042 --> 00:37:35,962 The ring was distorted and partly flattened, 611 00:37:36,003 --> 00:37:40,424 and there was absence of the stone 612 00:37:40,466 --> 00:37:42,468 from its setting. 613 00:37:45,471 --> 00:37:47,431 The crushed ring. 614 00:37:47,473 --> 00:37:49,725 It was all about that crushed ring. 615 00:37:49,767 --> 00:37:54,105 And at that point, Bob, Bryan and our whole bureau 616 00:37:54,146 --> 00:37:58,109 was convinced she was being straightforward and truthful 617 00:37:58,150 --> 00:38:02,363 because Eileen knew information about the killing 618 00:38:02,405 --> 00:38:04,657 that no one should have known. 619 00:38:04,699 --> 00:38:06,409 It was a done deal. 620 00:38:06,742 --> 00:38:10,663 They do the research and they find out that Franklin 621 00:38:10,705 --> 00:38:14,041 was not on duty that day as a fireman in Foster City. 622 00:38:14,083 --> 00:38:16,711 He had no alibi. 623 00:38:16,752 --> 00:38:19,422 So that opens up that possibility. 624 00:38:19,463 --> 00:38:21,632 I decided at a point 625 00:38:21,674 --> 00:38:24,719 that Eileen Franklin was telling us the truth, 626 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,762 that Eileen Franklin's description of what had happened 627 00:38:26,804 --> 00:38:28,973 is indeed what occurred. 628 00:38:29,015 --> 00:38:30,725 In other words, we came to the conclusion 629 00:38:30,766 --> 00:38:32,560 in this office that George Franklin 630 00:38:32,601 --> 00:38:35,646 had committed the murder of Susan Nason. 631 00:38:37,857 --> 00:38:39,734 The investigators came 632 00:38:39,775 --> 00:38:42,403 to the house that Mr. Franklin resided in. 633 00:38:42,445 --> 00:38:44,905 When he opened the door, they said, 634 00:38:44,947 --> 00:38:46,782 "We are here to talk to you 635 00:38:46,824 --> 00:38:49,452 about the murder of Susan Nason." 636 00:38:49,493 --> 00:38:51,579 His only response-- 637 00:38:51,620 --> 00:38:53,998 and we felt this was 638 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,584 an incredibly powerful response was-- 639 00:38:56,625 --> 00:38:58,919 "Have you talked to my daughter?" 640 00:39:02,131 --> 00:39:05,843 After that, he never spoke to the authorities again. 641 00:39:08,012 --> 00:39:09,680 Mr. Franklin, you're under arrest 642 00:39:09,722 --> 00:39:11,265 for the murder of Susan Nason. 643 00:39:11,307 --> 00:39:13,184 In so far as I understand it-- 644 00:39:13,225 --> 00:39:14,935 You have the right to remain silent. 645 00:39:14,977 --> 00:39:16,645 Anything you say can and will be used 646 00:39:16,687 --> 00:39:18,272 against you in a Court of Law. 647 00:39:18,314 --> 00:39:20,358 You have the right to talk to a lawyer, 648 00:39:20,399 --> 00:39:22,234 and have him present with you while being questioned. 649 00:39:22,276 --> 00:39:23,861 Do you understand each of these rights, 650 00:39:23,903 --> 00:39:25,404 I've explained to you? 651 00:39:25,446 --> 00:39:27,114 I'm in a state of shock. 652 00:39:27,156 --> 00:39:29,116 A 50-year-old retired fireman 653 00:39:29,158 --> 00:39:31,118 was in a California courtroom today for a preliminary 654 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,622 hearing in a case police thought they would never solve: 655 00:39:34,663 --> 00:39:37,875 the murder of a child 20 years ago. 656 00:39:40,002 --> 00:39:42,004 I was at work when I heard it. 657 00:39:42,046 --> 00:39:45,257 I didn't believe what I had heard, 658 00:39:45,299 --> 00:39:48,135 so I called KGO 659 00:39:48,177 --> 00:39:50,846 and I asked, I said, "I just heard something 660 00:39:50,888 --> 00:39:53,349 and I want to make sure I heard the right thing." 661 00:39:53,391 --> 00:39:55,476 And then they told me, 662 00:39:55,518 --> 00:39:58,938 yes, that George Franklin had been taken into custody. 663 00:40:00,398 --> 00:40:02,566 I-- I couldn't believe it. 664 00:40:02,608 --> 00:40:06,654 It was very-- a very painful thing to think that, wow, 665 00:40:06,695 --> 00:40:10,408 we were living next door to him. 666 00:40:10,449 --> 00:40:14,578 He took the life of an innocent little girl. 667 00:40:16,288 --> 00:40:17,998 I had no doubt 668 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,918 that she was telling the truth. 669 00:40:22,586 --> 00:40:26,090 It was a sad story, but very true. 670 00:40:27,967 --> 00:40:30,094 What do you say to people who wonder 671 00:40:30,136 --> 00:40:33,639 how a daughter can turn in her own father? 672 00:40:34,932 --> 00:40:37,184 Well, it's not all black and white. 673 00:40:39,186 --> 00:40:42,648 I didn't turn my father in on a whim. 674 00:40:42,690 --> 00:40:45,609 I turned him in for a very serious crime 675 00:40:46,777 --> 00:40:48,779 that he allowed me to witness. 676 00:40:49,989 --> 00:40:52,158 I had to do what I believe is the right thing. 677 00:40:52,199 --> 00:40:55,619 I feel very strongly that I owe this to Susan. 678 00:40:55,661 --> 00:40:59,957 There was nothing I could do at the time to protect her. 679 00:40:59,999 --> 00:41:02,960 And I was the only other person there. 680 00:41:03,002 --> 00:41:07,298 And I just feel that I owe it to her to tell the truth. 681 00:41:09,842 --> 00:41:13,762 I was blown away when my parents told me that 682 00:41:13,804 --> 00:41:17,433 it was George Franklin that was arrested for the crime. 683 00:41:17,475 --> 00:41:21,312 It was still hard for me to picture the guy 684 00:41:21,353 --> 00:41:26,066 that I knew as this vicious person. 685 00:41:27,443 --> 00:41:32,239 So to find out that it was someone that I knew 686 00:41:32,281 --> 00:41:37,161 since I was four years old was pretty shocking. 687 00:41:44,877 --> 00:41:46,462 Franklin had been arrested. 688 00:41:46,504 --> 00:41:48,547 Obviously, his residence was searched, 689 00:41:48,589 --> 00:41:49,840 standard operating procedure. 690 00:41:49,882 --> 00:41:52,510 In that search, 691 00:41:52,551 --> 00:41:55,846 instead of having a whole set of books by Charles Dickens 692 00:41:55,888 --> 00:41:58,516 or somebody like that, he has sex books. 693 00:42:02,478 --> 00:42:05,981 He's got books in there on incest, pedophilia, 694 00:42:06,023 --> 00:42:07,858 deviant sexual behavior. 695 00:42:10,402 --> 00:42:14,198 Magazines that made it very clear what his interest was. 696 00:42:16,867 --> 00:42:19,537 There are stories in there 697 00:42:19,578 --> 00:42:22,373 about men who sleep with their daughters, 698 00:42:22,414 --> 00:42:24,542 "Oral Dad," 699 00:42:24,875 --> 00:42:27,628 "Sex Before Eight or It's Too Late," 700 00:42:27,878 --> 00:42:32,383 and they also found sex toys 701 00:42:32,424 --> 00:42:35,886 that they felt were designed for children. 702 00:42:38,264 --> 00:42:40,516 We found his apartment was 703 00:42:40,558 --> 00:42:42,101 just in disarray. 704 00:42:42,142 --> 00:42:45,688 We found an awful lot of pornographic books. 705 00:42:46,772 --> 00:42:48,107 Bestiality. 706 00:42:48,148 --> 00:42:50,442 - Bestiality? - You mean with animals? 707 00:42:50,484 --> 00:42:52,278 Right. Mm-hmm. 708 00:42:52,319 --> 00:42:54,780 - You're kidding? - You must have been appalled. 709 00:42:55,948 --> 00:42:57,783 Yeah, we were. 710 00:43:02,413 --> 00:43:06,417 Detective Bob Morse and Detective Brian Cassandro 711 00:43:06,458 --> 00:43:09,253 were kind of like the Batman and Robin 712 00:43:09,295 --> 00:43:11,714 of the county sheriff's homicide unit. 713 00:43:11,755 --> 00:43:14,300 They were a pair. 714 00:43:15,301 --> 00:43:17,344 They were the best of the best. 715 00:43:17,386 --> 00:43:20,055 To this day, they remain the two best detectives 716 00:43:20,097 --> 00:43:22,433 that I've seen in my four and a half decades 717 00:43:22,474 --> 00:43:24,101 in this business. 718 00:43:24,810 --> 00:43:27,104 They found an address book 719 00:43:27,146 --> 00:43:30,357 and it had the names of a large number of women. 720 00:43:30,399 --> 00:43:32,443 They went out and interviewed as many of them 721 00:43:32,484 --> 00:43:34,278 as they could contact as possible. 722 00:43:34,820 --> 00:43:38,907 We interviewed numerous female companions 723 00:43:38,949 --> 00:43:41,076 that he had over the years. 724 00:43:41,118 --> 00:43:43,370 And what did they tell you? 725 00:43:43,412 --> 00:43:47,291 Well, the majority of them told us that he was involved 726 00:43:47,333 --> 00:43:50,085 in that type of thing and wanted them to get involved in it, 727 00:43:50,127 --> 00:43:52,004 with the-- with the animals, 728 00:43:52,046 --> 00:43:54,965 um, with their daughters. 729 00:43:55,007 --> 00:43:59,970 In one instance, he solicited an older women 730 00:44:00,012 --> 00:44:03,641 to provide her nine-year-old daughter 731 00:44:03,682 --> 00:44:07,311 for his sexual desires. 732 00:44:19,573 --> 00:44:23,827 haunting vocalization 733 00:44:23,869 --> 00:44:27,456 It was probably early in 1979. 734 00:44:27,498 --> 00:44:31,251 I was at Santa Cruz on the beach, 735 00:44:32,503 --> 00:44:37,174 and George approached me and invited me for breakfast. 736 00:44:38,676 --> 00:44:43,764 - George was a character. - Folksy, colorful, 737 00:44:43,806 --> 00:44:45,849 and he was very smart. 738 00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:49,186 I loved George. 739 00:44:49,228 --> 00:44:52,022 He was a person who believed in you 740 00:44:52,064 --> 00:44:54,274 when you didn't believe in yourself. 741 00:44:56,068 --> 00:45:01,240 However, when he began staying at my apartment more often, 742 00:45:01,281 --> 00:45:06,036 that's when I began to notice that he had been drinking 743 00:45:06,078 --> 00:45:10,290 and drinking heavier and heavier. 744 00:45:10,332 --> 00:45:13,919 It was very, very difficult. 745 00:45:13,961 --> 00:45:17,297 It was destroying me 746 00:45:17,339 --> 00:45:19,216 because I knew he was sick. 747 00:45:20,426 --> 00:45:25,597 I tried to explain to him what a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde 748 00:45:25,639 --> 00:45:29,268 his personality became 749 00:45:29,309 --> 00:45:33,021 between his lovable, encouraging, 750 00:45:33,063 --> 00:45:36,775 cheerful, positive, hardworking self, sober, 751 00:45:37,109 --> 00:45:42,322 and this miserable, defensive, argumentative thug 752 00:45:42,364 --> 00:45:45,743 that he was when he was drunk. 753 00:45:45,784 --> 00:45:47,911 And he disregarded that. 754 00:45:50,789 --> 00:45:52,416 Toward the end of it, he said, 755 00:45:52,458 --> 00:45:54,626 "We ought to go to Disneyland." 756 00:45:55,210 --> 00:45:57,004 So I said, "Okay." 757 00:45:57,963 --> 00:46:00,257 We wandered around the park, 758 00:46:00,299 --> 00:46:04,386 saw a few things, and he had gone elsewhere 759 00:46:04,428 --> 00:46:06,847 for a while while I was shopping. 760 00:46:06,889 --> 00:46:10,934 And I realized when he came back, he was drunk. 761 00:46:12,269 --> 00:46:14,480 And I headed out of the park. 762 00:46:15,773 --> 00:46:17,566 And he ran alongside of me 763 00:46:17,608 --> 00:46:20,444 and I just kept going into the parking lot. 764 00:46:20,486 --> 00:46:22,988 I had my own set of keys to the van. 765 00:46:26,116 --> 00:46:29,411 He came into the van behind me 766 00:46:31,455 --> 00:46:32,998 and he grabbed me 767 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:34,917 and he-- first, he shook my shoulders 768 00:46:34,958 --> 00:46:36,460 and then he grabbed my throat, 769 00:46:36,502 --> 00:46:40,297 and he grabbed it hard and he was squeezing. 770 00:46:40,923 --> 00:46:45,385 I didn't think I would die because I believed 771 00:46:45,427 --> 00:46:48,430 I could get through to him if I could talk. 772 00:46:48,472 --> 00:46:51,475 I couldn't talk with the hands on my throat. 773 00:46:51,517 --> 00:46:55,854 I had to get my arm up there and relieve the throat. 774 00:46:56,313 --> 00:46:59,107 I managed, I think, with my elbow 775 00:46:59,149 --> 00:47:02,027 to get my arm in between me and him. 776 00:47:02,069 --> 00:47:04,363 And I kept saying, 777 00:47:04,404 --> 00:47:06,073 "George, do you know what you're doing?" 778 00:47:06,114 --> 00:47:09,284 "George, do you realize what you're doing? 779 00:47:10,744 --> 00:47:12,788 And he backed off. 780 00:47:13,330 --> 00:47:17,459 I had marks on my throat for days afterwards. 781 00:47:18,961 --> 00:47:20,337 And that was it. 782 00:47:20,379 --> 00:47:23,966 I never wanted to see George again. 783 00:47:34,601 --> 00:47:36,645 Franklin had been arraigned. 784 00:47:36,687 --> 00:47:38,438 He was in custody. 785 00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,649 And Eileen wanted to go visit him. 786 00:47:41,149 --> 00:47:44,486 Eileen did not want this to have to go through a trial 787 00:47:44,528 --> 00:47:46,363 for the harm it would do to the family 788 00:47:46,405 --> 00:47:48,198 to have to relive all of these things. 789 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:50,200 Her goal was to try and convince him, 790 00:47:50,242 --> 00:47:52,870 "Just admit what you did, take responsibility. 791 00:47:52,911 --> 00:47:55,539 Then we don't all have to go through this." 792 00:47:57,541 --> 00:48:01,211 Eileen was escorted up to the visiting area. 793 00:48:01,503 --> 00:48:05,340 She accused him, "You did this, you know you did this!" 794 00:48:06,550 --> 00:48:08,969 You need to tell the truth about this. 795 00:48:09,011 --> 00:48:10,929 You could really heal our family. 796 00:48:10,971 --> 00:48:12,723 You need to do the right thing. 797 00:48:12,764 --> 00:48:14,683 You raised me to do the right thing. 798 00:48:14,725 --> 00:48:17,895 You told me the truth will set you free. 799 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:23,567 "What are you talking about? 800 00:48:23,609 --> 00:48:25,736 - I never did it. - I had nothing to do with it. 801 00:48:25,777 --> 00:48:27,654 I would never harm that little girl." 802 00:48:27,696 --> 00:48:28,989 Nothing like that. 803 00:48:29,031 --> 00:48:30,991 Instead his response was silence 804 00:48:31,033 --> 00:48:33,368 and to take a hand and point up 805 00:48:33,410 --> 00:48:36,038 at the sign over their heads. 806 00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:38,540 He points up to the sign that says, 807 00:48:38,582 --> 00:48:40,626 "Conversations Might Be Monitored," 808 00:48:40,667 --> 00:48:43,921 and does not respond to her specific request. 809 00:48:44,296 --> 00:48:47,299 If a person, when confronted with an accusation, 810 00:48:47,341 --> 00:48:49,593 remains silent or does not offer to explain, 811 00:48:49,635 --> 00:48:53,096 it is an admission by the lack of a denial. 812 00:48:56,642 --> 00:48:58,769 When I went to see my father in jail, 813 00:48:58,810 --> 00:49:00,729 my father never claimed to me that he was innocent 814 00:49:00,771 --> 00:49:02,439 because he couldn't say it to me. 815 00:49:02,481 --> 00:49:04,441 I know the truth and he knows the truth. 816 00:49:04,483 --> 00:49:07,903 And so we had a very spontaneous natural visit. 817 00:49:07,945 --> 00:49:10,572 And that will probably be the last time I see him. 818 00:49:23,669 --> 00:49:26,964 Memory is an issue in every trial. 819 00:49:27,005 --> 00:49:28,465 I can't think of a trial 820 00:49:28,507 --> 00:49:30,384 out of the thousands of trials in this county 821 00:49:30,425 --> 00:49:31,969 where we don't have witnesses. 822 00:49:32,010 --> 00:49:34,638 And if you have witnesses, you've got memories. 823 00:49:36,139 --> 00:49:38,392 There was one key witness in this case. 824 00:49:38,433 --> 00:49:40,936 The key witness was Eileen Franklin. 825 00:49:41,353 --> 00:49:43,939 Everybody knew that without Eileen Franklin, 826 00:49:43,981 --> 00:49:45,691 there is no case. 827 00:49:49,152 --> 00:49:51,571 That jury, all twelve of them 828 00:49:51,613 --> 00:49:54,574 if even one of them did not believe her, 829 00:49:54,616 --> 00:49:56,284 we lose our case. 830 00:49:56,326 --> 00:50:00,080 A review of the authorities would certainly establish that-- 831 00:50:00,122 --> 00:50:03,709 Tipton, of course, led off as a prosecutor must. 832 00:50:04,126 --> 00:50:07,754 She believed Eileen Franklin's story 833 00:50:07,796 --> 00:50:11,925 that she had seen her father kill Susan Nason. 834 00:50:11,967 --> 00:50:16,847 She was coming across as what I would call an avenging angel. 835 00:50:16,888 --> 00:50:20,100 She was going to make the story clear, 836 00:50:20,142 --> 00:50:23,270 and she was going to make George Franklin pay the price. 837 00:50:23,311 --> 00:50:25,772 Surely, and all of its progeny-- 838 00:50:25,814 --> 00:50:30,485 When Eileen testified, the expression of emotion 839 00:50:30,527 --> 00:50:34,531 was as though she was seeing in her head 840 00:50:34,573 --> 00:50:37,284 exactly what she was describing. 841 00:50:38,410 --> 00:50:41,204 And what she was describing was horrific, 842 00:50:41,246 --> 00:50:43,457 it was terrible, it was frightening. 843 00:50:43,957 --> 00:50:47,919 You had to let her know that we were doing the right thing, 844 00:50:47,961 --> 00:50:50,047 this was the right thing, she had witnessed a murder, 845 00:50:50,088 --> 00:50:54,259 we had to bring this killer to justice. 846 00:50:54,551 --> 00:50:58,513 But it was going to rise and fall 847 00:50:58,555 --> 00:51:01,558 in large part on her testimony. 848 00:51:06,271 --> 00:51:08,231 Can you tell me the circumstances 849 00:51:08,273 --> 00:51:10,734 under which you saw Susan on that day? 850 00:51:15,530 --> 00:51:20,577 I was with my father in his Volkswagen van 851 00:51:20,619 --> 00:51:25,582 and we went down Harvester and turned on Balclutha, 852 00:51:25,624 --> 00:51:28,460 and I saw Susan and I... 853 00:51:29,795 --> 00:51:33,048 ...well, I asked if Susan could get in the car with us. 854 00:51:33,090 --> 00:51:37,427 And we stopped, pulled over, and she got into the car. 855 00:51:40,180 --> 00:51:42,432 Do you know where he drove to? 856 00:51:46,812 --> 00:51:48,605 I remember looking out the window 857 00:51:48,647 --> 00:51:50,732 and seeing the reservoirs. 858 00:51:52,275 --> 00:51:56,947 And the next thing that I remember is pulling off 859 00:51:56,988 --> 00:52:00,283 the paved road onto an unpaved area. 860 00:52:03,286 --> 00:52:05,956 What was the next thing that you saw him do? 861 00:52:13,130 --> 00:52:17,968 I went up into the front seat, into the passenger seat, 862 00:52:19,136 --> 00:52:21,388 and when I turned around and looked back into 863 00:52:21,429 --> 00:52:23,473 the back... 864 00:52:24,683 --> 00:52:29,646 ...Susie was on the end of a platform 865 00:52:29,688 --> 00:52:31,648 where the mattress was. 866 00:52:34,442 --> 00:52:37,195 Can you describe the back of the van for us, Eileen? 867 00:52:37,487 --> 00:52:40,824 There was a plywood platform 868 00:52:40,866 --> 00:52:44,327 that had a mattress of some sort on it. 869 00:52:45,537 --> 00:52:48,165 And where was your father positioned 870 00:52:48,206 --> 00:52:50,500 in relation to Susie? 871 00:52:58,216 --> 00:52:59,885 He was on top of her 872 00:52:59,926 --> 00:53:04,055 with his pelvis where-- up against her pelvis 873 00:53:04,097 --> 00:53:05,390 and her legs were apart. 874 00:53:05,432 --> 00:53:07,684 - And her legs were apart? - Yes. 875 00:53:13,732 --> 00:53:16,318 What is the next thing that happened? 876 00:53:19,362 --> 00:53:22,866 She was crying a little bit when we got out of the van. 877 00:53:24,075 --> 00:53:27,704 I was looking at something in my hand 878 00:53:27,746 --> 00:53:29,915 that I picked up off of the ground. 879 00:53:31,875 --> 00:53:34,711 And I saw, um... 880 00:53:37,255 --> 00:53:39,674 ...the frame or the silhouette 881 00:53:39,716 --> 00:53:43,970 of my father with the sun coming up behind it, 882 00:53:44,012 --> 00:53:47,807 and he had his hands up above his head 883 00:53:48,433 --> 00:53:50,727 with a rock in it. 884 00:53:51,394 --> 00:53:52,979 In his hands. 885 00:53:53,563 --> 00:53:55,982 What was the next thing that happened? 886 00:53:56,483 --> 00:53:58,902 I had turned away 887 00:53:58,944 --> 00:54:01,529 and, um... 888 00:54:03,281 --> 00:54:06,284 ...I heard a blow. 889 00:54:10,372 --> 00:54:13,208 Eileen, did you see the defendant kill Susan 890 00:54:13,250 --> 00:54:15,961 on September 22nd, 1969? 891 00:54:17,045 --> 00:54:18,588 Yes, I did. 892 00:54:21,716 --> 00:54:23,551 Thank you, nothing further. 893 00:54:26,638 --> 00:54:30,183 All right. Mr. Horngrad. 894 00:54:30,225 --> 00:54:31,935 Thank you, Your Honor. 895 00:54:31,977 --> 00:54:35,438 If I may, before Ms. Franklin-Lipsker testifies, 896 00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,899 we had indicated to counsel and the court 897 00:54:37,941 --> 00:54:40,527 that we believe there was an issue as to whether or not 898 00:54:40,568 --> 00:54:44,739 Ms. Lipsker had been hypnotized before this revelation, 899 00:54:44,781 --> 00:54:47,075 before going to the authorities. 900 00:54:47,117 --> 00:54:48,618 And I think that puts 901 00:54:48,660 --> 00:54:50,787 the witness' credibility in issue. 902 00:54:50,829 --> 00:54:52,789 And as the court knows, if there has been hypnosis 903 00:54:52,831 --> 00:54:54,624 under the appropriate circumstances, 904 00:54:54,666 --> 00:54:56,209 then this witness is incompetent to testify. 905 00:54:56,251 --> 00:54:57,794 Your Honor, if I may respond. 906 00:54:57,836 --> 00:54:59,796 I think the matter can be quite quickly resolved, 907 00:54:59,838 --> 00:55:01,464 that there will be no evidence that hypnosis 908 00:55:01,506 --> 00:55:03,091 has ever occurred. 909 00:55:03,133 --> 00:55:06,011 I would suggest you just address some questions to 910 00:55:06,052 --> 00:55:08,596 Ms. Franklin-Lipsker in that regard 911 00:55:08,638 --> 00:55:10,473 and then the issue will be submitted. 912 00:55:10,515 --> 00:55:11,975 Thank you, Your Honor. 913 00:55:14,227 --> 00:55:16,771 My cross-examination of Eileen focused on 914 00:55:16,813 --> 00:55:20,483 - all the known lies she told. - And they were legion. 915 00:55:21,860 --> 00:55:24,404 I think this story about Eileen saying 916 00:55:24,446 --> 00:55:25,822 she looked into her daughter's eyes 917 00:55:25,864 --> 00:55:27,907 and it reminded her of Susan's look 918 00:55:27,949 --> 00:55:30,618 and all the rest of it is just a bunch of dramatic nonsense. 919 00:55:30,660 --> 00:55:33,288 If you were going to make up a story, 920 00:55:33,330 --> 00:55:35,790 that's a pretty good one to make up, isn't it? 921 00:55:35,832 --> 00:55:37,500 "I looked into my daughter's eyes 922 00:55:37,542 --> 00:55:38,835 and it reminded me of Susan." 923 00:55:38,877 --> 00:55:41,254 It's-- it sounds concocted. 924 00:55:42,005 --> 00:55:45,425 I was sitting in my family room 925 00:55:45,467 --> 00:55:48,428 and my daughter was sitting on the floor below me 926 00:55:48,470 --> 00:55:50,472 and I was looking at my daughter 927 00:55:50,513 --> 00:55:52,474 and suddenly she just reminded me 928 00:55:52,515 --> 00:55:57,020 so strikingly of Susan at that moment and the memory started. 929 00:55:57,062 --> 00:56:02,150 I realized that my father had murdered Susan. 930 00:56:03,401 --> 00:56:06,529 She had the memory, if she had it at all, 931 00:56:07,697 --> 00:56:10,700 in her therapist's office during hypnosis. 932 00:56:12,035 --> 00:56:13,953 She had said she was hypnotized. 933 00:56:13,995 --> 00:56:16,331 She told people she was hypnotized, 934 00:56:16,373 --> 00:56:18,792 so that obviously was the clue that she was, 935 00:56:18,833 --> 00:56:20,377 in fact, hypnotized. 936 00:56:20,794 --> 00:56:25,715 And if it's hypnotically induced, it's not reliable. 937 00:56:26,466 --> 00:56:28,718 It's an unreliable memory. 938 00:56:30,553 --> 00:56:33,098 Good afternoon. I'm Douglas Horngrad, representing 939 00:56:33,139 --> 00:56:37,060 your father. My question to you, Ms. Lipsker, is, 940 00:56:37,102 --> 00:56:40,230 isn't it true that you were hypnotized 941 00:56:40,271 --> 00:56:42,899 when you had that memory of your dad 942 00:56:42,941 --> 00:56:45,777 being involved in this murder?77920

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.