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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:10,100 On 27th July 50 years ago, the decriminalisation of sexual acts between consenting males 2 00:00:10,100 --> 00:00:13,800 over 21 - in private - in England and Wales 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:15,920 was given the royal assent by a young queen. 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,160 And I can only imagine what my father would have thought 5 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,680 as he took the 8.17 train from Witham into Liverpool Street, 6 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,200 and then the news, homosexuality had been legalised, 7 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,280 not knowing that, far away across the country, 8 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,280 I was sitting there in my little shorts, 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,520 plotting and preparing for a long career as, you know, 10 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:42,760 a screaming queen! 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,600 Since then, a lot has changed for gay people in Britain. 12 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,360 There we go. I do. 13 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,440 What do you call yourself now, then? 14 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,040 An accidental lesbian. Right. 15 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,160 Tres-bien. Tres-bien! 16 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,160 But in the long journey towards mainstream acceptance, 17 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,360 has something also been lost? 18 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,520 It was rare to be gay, and it was fun finding a world that was. 19 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,360 Have we sacrificed community and the spirit of the outsider 20 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,000 for the rather conservative values of the straight world? 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,800 Never in a million years would I have thought 22 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,040 that I could marry a man. 23 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,200 I'm taking a trip around the country to see just how much a nation 24 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,920 that used to lock men up for being homosexual has really changed. 25 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,600 Excuse me, sir. Do you know that he's bent? 26 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:34,680 Well, I do now. 27 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,360 Is Britain finally able to accept the full 50 shades of gay? 28 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,680 To many people, the idea of being criminalised for being gay 29 00:01:54,680 --> 00:02:00,440 might seem like ancient history, but even after decriminalisation, 30 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,800 gay men still risked police persecution and disgrace. 31 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,600 In Manchester, I'm visiting a now boarded-up public convenience 32 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,680 with former police officer Roger. 33 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,840 And you were a young police officer. Yes, I was. Yes. 34 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:22,920 And you were sent down there to do what? 35 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:25,480 We were in what was called the plainclothes department. 36 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,080 It was a licensing vice department and we would look 37 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,440 into complaints and take whatever action we thought was necessary. 38 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,000 So you would come down here and what would happen, exactly? 39 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,760 Well, you'd come down the staircase here and see men using these 40 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:51,560 toilets in and out, in and out, 41 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,280 but then you'd notice that some men weren't going in and out 42 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,320 and we would wait and watch, see what they were doing. 43 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,200 Did they have to do something that was incriminating? 44 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,000 What we would find sometimes, the men were masturbating. Hm. 45 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,840 Not each other, that would be an offence of gross indecency, 46 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,920 but what you'd find, they'd be standing, facing the wall 47 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:14,720 and masturbating, and staying there for a period, 48 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,840 looking sideways and that would... That would be enough? 49 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,560 That would be our... Yeah, importuning. 50 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,480 So you'd go and stand next to somebody, I'd be here, 51 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:29,040 observed by you coming and going as someone who's not leaving. Yes. 52 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,320 And then you move up towards here... 53 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,280 Probably here. I love you saying there. 54 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,000 How are you going to see if I've got an erection from over there? 55 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,680 We can see over the top. If it comes up high? 56 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,160 And we can probably see your arm moving for masturbation. 57 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,440 And then, so, wank, wank, wank, wank, wank, 58 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,320 and then look, look, look, look, look, and then you'd say... 59 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:51,760 I'm a police officer, 60 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,560 I'm arresting you for importuning for an immoral purpose. 61 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,800 And what were their faces like at that point? 62 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,240 Aghast. Aghast? Yeah. 63 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,280 When these things happened and you saw that aghast face, 64 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,600 and you knew someone was going to get a criminal record, 65 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,360 basically, for these things, didn't they? Yes. 66 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,840 It's quite a responsibility, in a way. 67 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:18,400 It was, and I wasn't happy about it because my true feelings were 68 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,560 live and let live, but that was my job at the time 69 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,720 and I had to do that. I didn't have a choice, really. 70 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,960 It's kind of unimaginable that you'd have to... 71 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,240 You'd think people would even think of going down to a 72 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,440 public toilet to have sex, really. 73 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,960 It's like being in the Titanic here, almost. 74 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,440 It wasn't probably to have sex, it was more to pick up. Yeah. 75 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,760 We used to be arresting people for importuning 76 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,840 because we thought they were then going to commit... An immoral act. 77 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,880 It must have seemed like the end of the world for a poor guy 78 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:06,240 who's already hiding his sexual identity to be suddenly faced with 79 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,720 the, kind of, spotlight of a court appearance and in the courts, 80 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,360 always, there were journalists from the local paper 81 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,440 just on the off-chance that something exciting would happen, 82 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,600 so you really had a chance to be quite... 83 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,800 ..ruined by these experiences, right up, I think, until the '70s. 84 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,240 But this dangerous and illicit atmosphere didn't put any of us off. 85 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:34,720 In fact, in some ways, 86 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,720 it strengthened the sense of solidarity we felt. 87 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,760 You walked into the shadows and found a whole new world. 88 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,360 My parents sent me to a sixth form college in London 89 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,920 and I was what was called a PG - a paying guest - 90 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,240 in a very nice house, and they had two dogs called Samson and Biscuit. 91 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,560 I would take Samson and Biscuit for a walk and, one day, 92 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,840 I saw this extraordinary figure in total black leather 93 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:11,560 and I had never, ever seen anything like this before. He squeaked. 94 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:16,280 He had, like, high boots on, he had a biker's hat, and we couldn't 95 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:19,720 believe what was happening, me and Samson and Biscuit, and... 96 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,640 He turned left in this road, and we followed, 97 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,200 and then he went into this pub and we followed and we went, 98 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,320 looked through the windows of this pub 99 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,920 and it was full of cowboys and Indians... 100 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,080 ..and more of these people in extraordinary leather outfits. 101 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,120 The next day, I decided I'd go in myself. 102 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:44,640 Right in the heart of respectable West London, 103 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,840 this scene of fantasy and defiance would open my eyes. 104 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:53,560 I'm now on my way into the renowned ex-Coleherne Arms, 105 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,920 which has now been renamed The Pembroke. 106 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,160 It was quite an extraordinary place and every time I used to come, 107 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,920 I used to walk around the block about five times 108 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,160 before coming in to get the courage up, to make sure there 109 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,360 were no friends of my parents or something who would see me going in 110 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,480 because it was a well-known den of iniquity. 111 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,280 Coming to the Coleherne meant so much more 112 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,560 than just coming for a drink in a bar. 113 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,400 You were joining a community with its own codes, 114 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,400 its sense of identity and belonging, 115 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:25,680 and even its own language. 116 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,680 I'm meeting up with some of the other surviving stalwarts 117 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,160 from the old days. 118 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:33,680 I loved Polari. 119 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:35,840 Can you speak any Polari? I remember it. 120 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,160 Vada your eek. Vada your eek, yeah. 121 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,000 If someone gives me a phone, I should read you the beginning 122 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,480 of the Bible in Polari cos it's absolutely brilliant. 123 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,400 Yes, "In the beginning, Gloria created heaven and the earth. 124 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,520 "And the earth was nanti form and void, 125 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,440 "and munge upon the eke of the deep. 126 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,400 "And the Fairy of Gloria trolled upon the eke of the aquas. 127 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,360 "And Gloria cackled, 'Let there be sparkle.' And there was sparkle. 128 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,720 "And Gloria vardad the sparkle, that it was bona. 129 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,200 "And Gloria medzered the sparkle from the munge. 130 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,000 "And Gloria screeched the sparkle journo, 131 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,000 "and the munge she screeched nochy. 132 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,160 "And the bijou nochy and the morning were the first journo." 133 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:11,960 LAUGHTER 134 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:13,920 It's genius. 135 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:18,000 The thing I remember about coming in here was that there 136 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,680 was something about, you counted just for daring to come in, somehow. 137 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,440 Yes. Because we were still... 138 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,000 We weren't illegal in the '70s and '80s, 139 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,360 but it was still a difficult position, 140 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,640 so the whole feeling of community, which there really was in the '70s, 141 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:38,080 particularly since it was such a small community, that seems to me... 142 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:39,160 It's all gone. 143 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:43,080 That community that we had because of it, the joy was finding 144 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,320 other people who were like you in those sort of situations. 145 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,800 It was exciting to meet people, to find people who were gay. 146 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:56,920 It was rare to be gay and it was fun finding a world that was. 147 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,920 Even after the change in the law in '67, all through the '70s, 148 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:06,440 the television imagery was still either screaming queens 149 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,520 or people who were deviants. It was so negative. 150 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,440 There were no positive role models. But it made us resilient. 151 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,520 Even the feyest queen is actually quite macho in a way 152 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,080 because they knew how to protect themselves. Oh, absolutely. 153 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,960 If you're going to be camp or drag or semi-drag or anything, 154 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,840 you had to be tough as nails. 155 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,800 One of the things that was marvellous about the time in here, 156 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,360 everyone would be standing, quite a lot of people on their own, 157 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,280 you could just go up behind them and fiddle with their bums 158 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,840 or touch their cock and stuff like that, and no-one really minded. 159 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,000 If they didn't want it, they would just push you off. 160 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,600 Let's go outside and go around the corner. 161 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,760 All the motorbikes were here. Yes. 162 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,040 And everyone stood at this corner. 163 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,040 That was quite intimidating, arriving at this corner. Yeah. 164 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,400 And then cruising would happen round here. 165 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,800 And this is where my friend Tom Bell lived, 166 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,600 and we used to just sit in this window at closing time in the pub 167 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,360 and if we saw someone we fancied, 168 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,440 we'd come beetling out and follow them around, 169 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,160 cos everyone just went round and round and round the block. 170 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,800 You'd go to the end here, and then you could go into the mews 171 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,080 back there, and then that's where, quite often, 172 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,280 things really kicked off. This was great. 173 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,040 Oh, yes. 174 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,280 You used to go through here and then you'd be found like this. 175 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,040 It used to look different in the dark. 176 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,320 You'd disappear round the corner, get arranged and then... 177 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:36,600 LAUGHTER 178 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,240 Happy memories? Yes. Without a doubt. 179 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:40,880 Really, really happy, yeah. 180 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,040 Although I loved the camaraderie and the spirit of defiance of the 181 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,800 gay scene in those days, it's hard to convey at this distance just how 182 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,800 weird and conflicted wider British attitudes to homosexuality seemed. 183 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,280 It had been legal to be gay for ten years, but I don't think that 184 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,040 really had changed very much, to be quite honest. 185 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,640 I think it was still seen as... 186 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,200 ..something quite horrific. 187 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,040 I find them to dress very effeminate, 188 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,000 plus speak very effeminate as well, you know? 189 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,880 The way they walk and the way they talk. 190 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,360 And yet, at the same time, 191 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,080 the likes of Freddie Mercury and David Bowie were massive stars. 192 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,040 Extraordinary things happening in mainstream television, 193 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:36,360 it's all about drag. 194 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,640 England was a very, very peculiar place because it was 195 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:44,600 just a huge, mass of different standards and contradictions. 196 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,080 APPLAUSE 197 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,160 Oh, what a gay day. How are you? All right? 198 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,720 So did that sexually messed-up and deeply hypocritical nation 199 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,160 I remember really vanish into thin air? 200 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,400 I'm setting off around Britain to find out. 201 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:17,360 she had an elaborate kind of, erm, ritual which she had lovely... 202 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:18,640 She was lovely, my mum. 203 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,760 She had hair like this and she'd pull up strands 204 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,880 and she backcombed then, like this, and they'd stand up 205 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,560 and then she had this big can of Elnett hairspray and I would hold 206 00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:33,040 the Elnett and she would backcomb the thing and I'd go, kssssssh! 207 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:40,160 Like this and I was obviously enthralled by this process 208 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,760 and one day she said... We caught each other's eyes in the mirror 209 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:49,200 and she said, "I'll kill you if you're queer." And I went, "Oh!" 210 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,840 So I knew by that point there was going to be some 211 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:53,120 kind of battle ahead. 212 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,440 Of course she didn't mean it and mother came round in the end. 213 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:04,200 Since those days, gay visibility has become part of the cultural mainstream 214 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,920 but I wonder if it's been on terms dictated by the straight world. 215 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,480 My own career took a new turn as Julia Roberts' 216 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,640 gay sidekick in My Best Friend's Wedding. 217 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:20,520 And he comes towards you, the moves of a jungle cat 218 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:25,600 and although you quite correctly sense that he is...gay, 219 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:31,000 like most devastatingly handsome single men of his age are, 220 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:37,480 you think, "What the hell. Life goes on." 221 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:43,000 Maybe there won't be a marriage, maybe there won't be sex... 222 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:50,080 ..but by God, there'll be dancing. 223 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,840 As this scene shows, it was a gift of a role 224 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,600 but on the other hand, my character was the heroine's witty 225 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,560 sidekick and not, unfortunately, the romantic lead. 226 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,080 20 years later, there's possibly a greater range of gay 227 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,400 characters in mainstream film and television. 228 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,400 WOLF WHISTLE 229 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,040 Oh, my God! 230 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,200 Looking pretty hot there in your Marigolds. 231 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,600 Want me to keep them on? 232 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:32,040 I'm watching Hollyoaks and basically this is like porn. 233 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,840 Well, the reason I'm so fascinated by Hollyoaks, is that it's full of 234 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:50,600 young people, some of them gay, but a lot of them straight and play... 235 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,440 Playing in mainstream television, 236 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,600 going into the houses of everyone around England. 237 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,800 You know, amazing gay stories including crystal meth 238 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:06,120 addiction and HIV. There's no holds barred in the Hollyoaks approach. 239 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,320 Kieron is gay and plays gay character, Ste. 240 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,680 Parry is straight and plays Ste's gay lover, Harry. 241 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,200 I've come to visit them on set in Liverpool. 242 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,640 It's been challenging at various points in my career being gay, 243 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,000 at least certainly for when I was younger, 244 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,200 it was suddenly a much more complicated thing. 245 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,000 How does it feel... How does it feel for you? 246 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:37,920 Before I came out publicly, I ended up coming out on a television show. 247 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,440 Oh, right. Hang on, let's go back. So when you came into this show... 248 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,880 When I was first in the show, my character was straight. 249 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,880 Hadn't explored his sexuality and I wasn't out publicly, either. 250 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,160 But you were gay then. Yeah. Right. But not publicly. 251 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,360 I remember before I did it, there was one person that was like, 252 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,880 as soon as you do this, you're going to end your career. 253 00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,280 And I'll never forget those words. 254 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,480 But in actual fact, it was completely the opposite 255 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,840 and I can't believe that I was ever in the closet, as they say. 256 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,520 You, for example, aren't gay. No. 257 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,160 So that must be quite a pressure in one sense. How does that feel? 258 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,640 Erm... I don't really know. To me, because I've had no... 259 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,840 Anyone that comes up to me in the street and says, 260 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,520 I like your character and stuff, 261 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,000 I've been really lucky that no-one said anything negative or 262 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,240 no-one's come up to me and said anything homophobic 263 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,440 which I thought would be if I was on their screens every day. 264 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,360 Who, for example, is the fan base? Is it girls, is it gays or is it...? 265 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,480 A lot of teenage girls, I think, love it but the female fan base 266 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,600 are the ones that obviously get involved on the social media. 267 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,720 They have this thing called FanFicts where 268 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,160 they create their own storylines... You should be doing. 269 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,920 What they should be doing. Lots of them are sexual ones, as well. 270 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,040 It's a lot of teenage girls that write these FanFicts. 271 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,040 Maybe straight sexuality, because of porn and everything, 272 00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:01,040 it's become quite shocking to young girls and maybe this is slightly... 273 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:05,480 There's a little bit of distance for them and they can observe men but 274 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,160 without feeling that, God, they're going to have to do all of this... 275 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,480 Fantasy to it. It's strange, though. 276 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,120 For all the shades of gay on display in Hollyoaks, 277 00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:21,400 it's striking that some of the most popular gay characters seem 278 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,240 to appeal to teenage girls. 279 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,640 But enough of youth and beauty in Liverpool. 280 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,680 I want to go to a conventional British wedding. 281 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,760 To many, the clearest indication of a gay friendly Britain was 282 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,680 the legalisation of gay marriage in 2013. 283 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,680 I'm not a particular fan of marriage in general. 284 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,480 Either straight or gay, to be honest. 285 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,040 In my day, they were kind of slightly gruesome events where the 286 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,520 stag do, some poor hookers would be got in to give blow jobs 287 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,440 to men on coke under the table 288 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:04,400 and I always found it quite horrible and none of the marriages lasted. 289 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,120 And I remember thinking, thank God, I'm gay 290 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:11,120 and I don't have to go through all this. 291 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,440 I'm on my way to one of the most impeccably respectable gay 292 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:17,640 weddings of the season. 293 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,640 Paul Burrell is the former royal butler 294 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,000 and the man Princess Diana called, Her Rock. 295 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,000 At a five-star hotel in the Lake District, 296 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,600 he's preparing for his wedding to his partner, Coop. 297 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,760 Until recently, Paul was in a heterosexual marriage 298 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,040 and has two grown-up sons. 299 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,360 Here we are today and you are getting married. Tell me one thing. 300 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:52,080 Was civil partnership not enough? No. So why is that? 301 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,880 Because marriage now between two men, 302 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,160 after all the struggles that people are enduring and everything 303 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,600 else, and everything that's happened in history, 304 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,440 now is a time to stand up and say, "Yes, we can get married, yes, 305 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,080 "we can stand side-by-side in public," 306 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,240 and that is fantastic for me. 307 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,160 Never in a million years would I have thought that 308 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:13,400 I could marry a man. 309 00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:19,120 I'm in my element as I help Paul with the floral 310 00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:20,400 arrangements for the day. 311 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:25,720 Pull it through their like that and then pull it up like that. OK? 312 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,440 Fill me in on the format of the day. 313 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,680 OK, ceremony is going to be in that room, there. 314 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,200 And then we come down and I think that's when it's going to 315 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:41,280 really hit me that I'm actually getting married to a man. 316 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,960 This is the man! 317 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:48,560 To that man. How embarrassing. And do you know? 318 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:54,280 It's only been, for me, a couple of months since I... 319 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,520 I hate this word, came out. It's horrible, it's horrible. Is it? 320 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,480 Yes. Oh, right. Yes. 321 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,840 Because I wanted to marry Coop, 322 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,400 our bands had to be read and then the media found out and I was outed. 323 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,600 Oh, they didn't think you were gay before? 324 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,440 I mean you're very butch, I understand, 325 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,880 but I thought you were married but gay-ish. Gay-ish. 326 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:21,040 What is gay, Rupert? Well, I don't need to give you a geographical... 327 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,400 You see I think we are all on that sliding scale. 328 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,520 How did being gay hit you when you were aged 18, 19? 329 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,680 When I was reaching puberty, of course, 330 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,440 you begin to realise then who you're attracted to and I was going 331 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,360 to a boy's school and I thought, there's something wrong with me. 332 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:38,920 Why do I feel this way? 333 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,960 After football and rugby, 334 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,000 getting changed and going into the showers was a nightmare for me. 335 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,760 You should've come to my school. Was it much fun at your school? 336 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:49,360 Unbelievable, my school. 337 00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:53,400 I had sex with almost everybody in the school before I was eight. 338 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,240 So when did you have your first... 339 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,560 When did it kind of hit you being properly gay? 340 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,440 When you came to London? 341 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:01,960 Coming to London, of course, 342 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,840 as a young 18-year-old having no sexual experience at all, was 343 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,800 an eye-opener and going to work at Buckingham Palace, of course... 344 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,440 Was that aged 18. 18. My first job. 345 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,680 The royal family seem to be rather gay friendly to you 346 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,120 if you ask me, it seems. 347 00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:18,480 I met, of course, every member of the royal family 348 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,600 and all their friends too. And it is a very flamboyant society. 349 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,800 The thing is, the institution of marriage, 350 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,680 as the Queen said to me one day whilst we were feeding the corgis, 351 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,040 she said, "Do you know, Paul, marriage is a fine institution 352 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,040 "and when you have children inside a marriage, 353 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,800 "it's a wonderful foundation on which to build your life. 354 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,640 "Have you thought about getting married?" 355 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,400 And I said, "Well, Your Majesty, I have, yes, 356 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,280 I'd love to have children." She said, "Well, look around the palace. 357 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,640 "There's some beautiful young girls around the palace." 358 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,040 And your wife was one of them? 359 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,760 My wife was one of them so I went into the Queen's bedroom one 360 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,440 day and there's this young girl pulling over-the-counter pain 361 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,080 over the Queen's bed and she says, "Could you give me hand with this?" 362 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,560 And I did. I pulled over the... And I thought, you are very sweet. 363 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,040 And that was my wife. I met why wife in the Queen's bedroom. 364 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,000 Will she be coming tomorrow? No. 365 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,520 I don't think it would be appropriate for her to be here. 366 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,000 Because this is another world, it's a different world. 367 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,520 Rupert, I am absolutely amazed that you do not 368 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:19,000 believe in the institution of gay marriage. 369 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,960 As a gay achievement, I absolutely see it as being a major thing. 370 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,640 For me, personally, 371 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,120 I suppose I was just brought up not to like marriage. 372 00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:32,720 But that's sad and you'll never wake up with a partner whom you've 373 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,480 just married and say, "I'm going to spend the rest of my life with you." 374 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,520 Yes, but I could be saying that to someone I hadn't been married to. 375 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,960 Yes, you could, but it's still transient. 376 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,680 The whole of life is transient. We mustn't get into a fight about it. 377 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,640 One other question. Is it very rude? 378 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,520 Do you think I could see your outfit? 379 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,840 There we go. I do. 380 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,960 Yes, well, you see tomorrow, you said, "Will Diana be with me?" 381 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:09,280 She will because she had those made for me and so I'll wear those tomorrow. 382 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,920 They're gorgeous, aren't they? Yes, they're lovely. 383 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,920 Is this everyone...? Yes, this is my family. 384 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,640 Hello, hello. 385 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,080 Good to see you. Are you good? 386 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,320 Rupert, this is my little baby, Nick. 387 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,240 Hi there, how are you? And Alex. Hi, Alex, how are you? 388 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:34,840 Thank you very, very much. Have a lovely time. We well. Bye. 389 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:40,480 It's a long road from the coal hearne to a wedding in the Lake District. 390 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,600 But when it comes to gay acceptability in Britain, 391 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,560 I sense there's still some way to go. 392 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,400 I think everything at the moment is Alice in Wonderland in our country. 393 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,000 Nothing is quite what it seems 394 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,160 so there's Paul Burrell's wedding accepted by everyone around. 395 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,440 The hotel, the people working in the hotel, no-one raised eyebrows 396 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,680 but elsewhere, you can just never tell how things are. 397 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,640 Now that you can't say faggot or poof or all the things that you 398 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,920 used to be able to say, you now don't really know who's 399 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,160 thinking faggot or poof. 400 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,200 So the gay world should not just think, "Oh, the job's being done." 401 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,960 but being an outsider brought with it a marvellous sense of freedom. 402 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,880 You felt you belonged nowhere and everywhere. 403 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,040 It feels as if there's no sense of community in the same 404 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,760 way as there was. 405 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,560 Now, on Grindr, you just send a picture of your arsehole 406 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,480 and say, "I'm five minutes away." 407 00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:57,560 Hooking up for sex is now infinitely easier. 408 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,520 We've all become more virtual. 409 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,960 The world is a screen where anything is available at a swipe, 410 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,880 and I wonder about the consequences for gay life. 411 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,960 At a nightclub called Heaven in London, 412 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,960 I'm meeting my old friend, DJ Fat Tony. 413 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,160 A self-described former junkie, he now helps other gay men 414 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,240 who are addicted to chem-sex, drug-fuelled sex parties. 415 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,200 The gay scene at the moment, the way it stands, 416 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,960 you don't go out to pick up men. 417 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,960 You don't go out to find sex. You don't go out for a date. 418 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,480 It's all done by iPhone. It comes to you. 419 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,560 The sad thing about it for me 420 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,240 is the fact that the gay scene has lost that intimacy. 421 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,720 Sex parties took over, so people stay in now. 422 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,360 They stay in and they do their drugs at home. 423 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:44,160 They kind of think it's glamorous to slam. 424 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,360 They think it's glamorous to have these sex parties where 425 00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:50,200 they've got 20 guys in the house all weekend, 426 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,880 that rotate from house to house. 427 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,240 These kids, they don't go to one sex party. 428 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,520 They go out on a Thursday or a Friday, 429 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,240 they go to a sex party, they stay there for 24 hours. 430 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,680 From the minute they go in that house, they are all on Grindr. 431 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,000 They're all sitting there on those apps looking for the next party. 432 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,040 They exhaust the drugs at that party, they go to the next party. 433 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,640 What is the solution? 434 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,200 Do you, for example, agree with the legalisation of drugs? 435 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,120 That's a tough one, because, you know, for me... 436 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,640 Drugs aren't the problem for me. 437 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,720 I'm the problem. What made you stop? 438 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,800 I got to that point in my life where it was either stopping or dying. 439 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,520 Right. I literally weighed 7st, I had no teeth, 440 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,760 I'd pulled all my teeth out. I had a thing called meth mouth, 441 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,680 where, when I smoked cigarettes, I used to have to literally 442 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,240 open my mouth, like that, because my cheeks would stick together. 443 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:47,160 Do you think a need to conform is driving people to excess? 444 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,000 Oh, without a doubt. We don't have tribes any more. 445 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,520 We don't have that look. We don't have punks. 446 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,080 We don't have all of that freedom of the way we are, 447 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,680 but what we do have is, we have this conformity to be a gay male, 448 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,440 to go to the gym, to take steroids, to be as pumped 449 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,880 and ripped as possible, and to do as many drugs as possible. 450 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,360 That's our aim. 451 00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:10,480 That's kind of, like, the gay lifestyle that we have today. 452 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:11,880 You know? 453 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,320 Growing up around that and being a 16-, 17-year-old kid that 454 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:20,040 strives to be the perfect gay male, it's conforming. 455 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,600 Of course it is. 456 00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:30,360 With some gay men in Tony's world behaving in self-destructive ways, 457 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:33,960 perhaps we can't really say that the problems of being 458 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,520 gay in Britain have entirely gone away, 459 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,960 and in some communities, the path to acceptance is much slower. 460 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:57,240 The lyrics and performances like this show that 461 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,720 overt homophobia is still seen as OK in some Jamaican music, for example. 462 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,160 I'm meeting rapper Jay Rouge and his friend Hannah, 463 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,840 whose plucky reaction to the hostility they'd experienced 464 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,040 strikes a powerful chord. 465 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:19,040 # When will the change The change gon' come? 466 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,800 # The change is gonna come 467 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,240 # I swear down I will make your pussy run 468 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,120 # If you regret, say you've fucked it, this one 469 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:28,920 # You're over there shouting Yo, suck your mum 470 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,160 # Batty boy, he take it up the bum 471 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,960 # I'm looking like she's got the wrong one 472 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,680 # Tolerance? I ain't got none 473 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,400 # You seein' me I'm a gangsta gay. # 474 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,560 So, were you always out gay? No? 475 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,760 Not at all? No. No. 476 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,360 I was outed. 477 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,240 My cousin, who I was really close to, she knew. 478 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,120 We had a disagreement... Right. ..and then she told my family. 479 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,600 My family are from Jamaica. Jamaica, 480 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,280 that's the one thing I really don't understand, 481 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,440 is the homophobia in Jamaica. 482 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,560 It's more of a thing where they are just set in their ways. 483 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,800 It's been there for so long. It's one of the most homophobic places, 484 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,800 and it's got such a large homosexual population, 485 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,320 but growing up in my community, 486 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,240 I listened to hip-hop, 487 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,080 it was very homophobic, so even if no-one said to you 488 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,800 being gay is wrong, the songs told you gay is wrong. 489 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,120 So, when I was outed, everyone who was close to me, 490 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,680 like, in my family, I lost. 491 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,600 Coming out, not through choice, I dated someone at my church. 492 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,800 I really, really, really was in love with them, but then 493 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:43,000 a deacon at my church found out and ended up going to the person's... 494 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,800 well, my ex's house, and telling her mother and threatening 495 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,800 to tell my mother, and having the pastor talk to me and stuff. 496 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:58,000 It was ridiculous. Yeah, my mother struggles with it. Still? Yes. 497 00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,560 I think she always will. 498 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,600 What about the music business and being gay? 499 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,800 What's that like? 500 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,160 It's one of them taboo things, especially rapping as well, 501 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,440 because obviously it's more seen as a butch thing, 502 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,720 more of like, you know, homeboy thing, girls and money and stuff, 503 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,440 but when we talk about dick and stuff, it's like, "Wow!" 504 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,280 So, it's a bit of a controversial thing. Tell me about the lyrics. 505 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,640 They're quite explicit, these lyrics. 506 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,160 My lyrics are explicit because when I spit 507 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,760 I feel like I shouldn't have to dumb down or water down anything 508 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,360 that's got to do with me, 509 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,040 because of how I was treated in the black community, 510 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,360 and because I feel like no-one should have to 511 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,160 suppress their feelings, or be oppressed or be depressed, 512 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,800 and I've been through all those stages. 513 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,800 So I'm basically unapologetically gay and, also, 514 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,720 literally just saying, "Fuck you, it is what it is." 515 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,520 # You puts it in my mouth I'm gonna feel you growin' 516 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,520 # Sink it in deep Feel it in my throat 517 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,360 # The face fucking me You know I'm not gaggin' 518 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:03,000 # And when you're bustin' nuts You know I'm swallowin'... # 519 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,320 In the black community, things can still be fairly complicated, 520 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,240 and I think his way of dealing with it, 521 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,160 his way of giving himself courage is, in a way, 522 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,880 to make his lyrics very, very explicit 523 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,960 and very, very shocking, so that at least, in the middle of that shock, 524 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,720 he is out there saying, "This is who the fuck I am, and get used to it." 525 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,320 The feeling of gay identity still being a struggle, 526 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,360 and perhaps a source of secret shame, 527 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,840 isn't always to be found in the places you might most expect it. 528 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,600 In 2007, former Chief Executive of BP, Lord Browne, 529 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,440 was forced to resign after a scandal involving a male escort 530 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,560 he'd met on a website called suitedandbooted.com. 531 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,280 I'd made my mind up that I was absolutely 532 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,320 going to keep my sexuality to myself. 533 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:12,400 I had decided that I was going to run two lives - a public life 534 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,640 and a private life - 535 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,160 so I decided to have an escort once in a while... Heaven. 536 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,360 Then I found one, and I made a relationship with him. Mm-hm. 537 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:27,480 The big mistake of course was, this was not really a relationship, 538 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,800 so we stopped it, 539 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:35,640 and then he sold his story to the Mail On Sunday. 540 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:42,240 So, in 2007, I think, right at the beginning of the year, 541 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,280 I get a phone call from the BP press office, 542 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,600 I'm on New Year's holiday, 543 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,200 they're saying, "Well, John, the Mail On Sunday is on the phone..." 544 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,840 This was a Friday. 545 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,800 "..and they've got 39 questions, or something, 546 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,360 "and they're all about you being gay. Is that true?" 547 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,840 What was the feeling of sheer cold terror? 548 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,560 Terrifying. Terrifying? 549 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,680 And on May 1st 2007, 550 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,640 I had decided that I would resign from BP. 551 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,000 What you think about the City of London? Is it easy... 552 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,640 It's mixed. It's very mixed. 553 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,680 What I'm struck by, I think it is the case still, 554 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:35,040 that two-thirds of gay graduates 555 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,840 who have been open at university 556 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,040 go back into the closet when they go into business. Really? 557 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,520 And most of that's in finance. Still now? Still now. 558 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,880 Hmm. The top 500 companies in the entire world, 559 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:53,680 you'd think that there are a few gay people running those, 560 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,960 statistically, you know, 25, maybe 5%. 561 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,680 Actually, there is one, and that's Tim Cook. 562 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,800 Everyone is either in the closet, or no gay person made it 563 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,440 to the top of one of the big 500 companies in the world. 564 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,800 Which is impossible. Which is impossible. 565 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,720 I mean, I don't think my role model was a role model 566 00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:16,800 I'd want anyone to follow, in hiding their sexuality, 567 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,680 and now you don't have to. You really don't have to. Hmm. 568 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,440 In your head, you have these terrible fears that, you know, 569 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,360 now everyone knows I'm gay, I'm an open homosexual, 570 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,200 no-one will take me seriously, no-one will talk to me. 571 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,160 All my friends will go away, 572 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,520 people will cross the street, no government will take me seriously, 573 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,160 they'll try and put me in jail in the Middle East... 574 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,600 Uganda. ..and Russia and so forth. Actually, none of that was true. 575 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,040 And people would stop me in the street and want to shake my hand 576 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,000 and say, "We're right with you. We're right with you." 577 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,080 If Lord Browne has realised that his world 578 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,240 isn't as prejudiced as he feared it would be, all across Britain 579 00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:03,840 gay men and women have been making a similar discovery. 580 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,880 Well, here I am again. 581 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,440 Now I'm in Southend, dragged up in my hard hat again, as usual, 582 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,800 and I'm off to find a gay carpenter called Steve 583 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,520 on this building site on the Chichester Road in Southend. 584 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,080 So, let's go. 585 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:23,840 Excuse me, I'm looking for Steve. 586 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,640 I'm Steve. You're Steve? I'm Rupert. How are you doing, Rupert? 587 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,520 How are you? How many people are working on this site? 588 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,120 There's probably about 30 builders at the moment, I think. 589 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,640 And are these people you work with all the time? 590 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,080 No, they change every day. They change every day? 591 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,400 Yeah, so sometimes when you're coming out as gay, I might sit 592 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,480 in the lunch room and someone will go, "What's your wife's name?" 593 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,440 And I'm like, "I'm into guys." 594 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,680 And it's one of those things - I either say or I just keep quiet 595 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,480 and don't say. I don't lie, I just don't say anything. 596 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:52,960 That's quite interesting. 597 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,960 Because I'm sort of coming out every job that I go to, yeah. 598 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,240 When I first came out, there weren't any gay builders around, 599 00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:01,440 so this young labourer that was working for me 600 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,160 at the time came into work and said to me, 601 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,400 "I heard you're a bit of a batty boy, you like it up the arse," 602 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,000 and I just stood at the top of this scaffold thinking, "Shit." 603 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,800 It was like a pause moment for ages, and I said to him, "Why? 604 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,240 "Have you got a fucking problem with it?" 605 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:17,760 "No, no, I've not got a problem with it," 606 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,840 and he just suddenly backed down, 607 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,320 but for about three months no-one spoke about it. 608 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,560 I knew people knew, but they didn't know how to talk to me 609 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,240 until the youngsters, I think 610 00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:30,160 it was more the youngsters who started with a bit of banter, 611 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,880 then it became more acceptable 612 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,440 and they could communicate through banter. Right. 613 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,760 Excuse me, sir. Do you know that he is bent? 614 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,720 I do now. Did you know before? No. 615 00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:45,360 Is he the first bent person you have ever come across on a building site? 616 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,280 Yes. Yes? To be honest, yeah. 617 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,440 And what you think about that? 618 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,240 It's all right. It don't matter to me. 619 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,320 And have you ever come across anyone else? 620 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,440 No, not that I know of. But you never know, do you? 621 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,400 Steve here is gay. Did you that before? This morning, yeah. 622 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,720 This morning? Yeah. Was it a shock? Not really, no. 623 00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:13,080 Did these reactions surprise you? No, not really. I think nowadays... 624 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,400 Talking about your sexuality, no-one's really that interested. 625 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,520 Bothered. Everyone just wants to know that they can get on. 626 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,560 No-one's really bothered what you do back at home. 627 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,760 It's always nice to come back to the town you were brought up in. 628 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,960 But I never thought I'd come back to the lesbian capital of Britain. 629 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:39,720 They reckon it could be as high as one in ten 630 00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:42,960 declaring themselves lesbian. 631 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,960 So, I'm watching Bernard Ingham, 632 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,360 Margaret Thatcher's former press secretary, 633 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,720 returning to Hebden Bridge 15 years ago, 634 00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:59,640 and he's absolutely appalled that there are so many lesbians there. 635 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,720 He's pretty appalling. 636 00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:04,960 I'm surprised he's not in the Tory government right now. 637 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,720 I'm on my way to Hebden Bridge myself, 638 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:13,640 and Bernard's words make me more, not less, keen to experience it. 639 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,640 I'm very much looking forward to letting my inner lesbian come out. 640 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,440 I joined the local women's choir for a rousing rendition 641 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:39,680 of I Am Woman. 642 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,720 # If I have to, I can do anything 643 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:48,800 # I am strong 644 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:49,920 # Strong 645 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,680 # I am invincible 646 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:52,960 # Invincible 647 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,040 # I am woman. # 648 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,400 THEY LAUGH AND CHEER 649 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,480 I feel really empowered! 650 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:03,920 THEY LAUGH 651 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,480 Hebden Bridge looks like any gritty, Northern, former mill town. 652 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,360 But it's also a vision of how much Britain has changed. 653 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,320 At the school gates, I meet mums, Amanda and Debbie. 654 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:24,080 In this school, how many of the kids are from same-sex couples? 655 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,200 I'm not sure about how many, in terms of percentage of this school, 656 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,200 but the primary school that the kids came from last year... Mmm. 657 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,000 ..over 50% of the kids - there's about 20 kids in that class - 658 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,640 about 50% of them had lesbian mums. Right. 659 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,840 So we didn't have to explain anything, cos it was done for us. 660 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,360 And what about... Between children themselves, obviously, 661 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,640 there's some children who have two mothers, and then some children 662 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,840 who have a mother and father. How did they talk among themselves, 663 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,760 for example, when they talk about fathers and stuff like that? 664 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,920 Some kids here have two mums and two dads. Right. 665 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,440 So they might have used a gay male as a donor. 666 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,480 A friend or some sort of... A friend. Yeah, right. 667 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,200 So they might have two dads, two mums. 668 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,640 We've also got friends that have said to us their kids have 669 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,560 come home and gone, "It's not fair, Billie's got two mums 670 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,280 "and I've only got one." But actually, you know... 671 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,280 One of the issues we've got in Hebden, though, 672 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,400 which probably doesn't happen anywhere else, is quite a lot 673 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:16,640 of lesbians use the same clinic in Manchester. 674 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,680 So we have this kind of conversation about, "OK, what was your 675 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,000 "donor profile? What did it look like?" 676 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,120 "OK, well, I went for the fireman, I went for the GP, 677 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:26,560 "I went for the security guard." 678 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,080 And then we kind of go, "Oh, OK, great, they're not... 679 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:30,360 "biological siblings." 680 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:34,800 Hello, gorgeous. Hello. 681 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:36,000 How are you? 682 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,440 Hiya. Hello! 683 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,600 That's Rupert. Hello, Rupert Everett. 684 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,200 THEY LAUGH 685 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,480 How are you? Good. What's your name? Alfie. 686 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,280 Excellent. Hi, there. Hello. I'm Rupert. Nice to meet you. 687 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,200 What's your name? Billie. Billie. Will we walk through the park with 688 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:54,840 you all? ALL: Yeah. Absolutely. 689 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,400 Are you applying for the job, Alfie? 690 00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:59,560 THEY LAUGH 691 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,000 So when Debbie and I decided that we wanted to have children, 692 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:12,080 at that point we had to pay for magic seed, didn't we? 693 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:17,520 So we went to a doctor who could get us some magic seed, 694 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,280 and your donor offered to come along... 695 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:21,880 Sperm. Oh, Billie. 696 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,400 THEY LAUGH AND GIGGLE 697 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,120 What's a sperm? They've obviously discovered it. Oh, my God! 698 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,600 Our kind of attitude towards it is that we just keep talking 699 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,080 when they ask and stuff like that. 700 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,840 And they can meet him, if they want to. 701 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,840 I mean, I think Hebden's been fantastic for us. 702 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,800 So when we first had Billie, we lived in a different town 703 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,240 and we got quite a lot of... 704 00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:42,440 Harassment. 705 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:43,400 When you've experienced homophobia from an early age, 706 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,600 it's really exhausting. And to come here, it just feels like 707 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,080 you can recover. That's how I feel. 708 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,800 I feel like I've recovered. Living here, your sexuality doesn't matter. 709 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,320 You're seen as a parent first, and you can just get on with 710 00:41:58,320 --> 00:41:59,920 being a parent. 711 00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:02,120 And that's all we've ever wanted, really. Yeah. 712 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,000 Can't get a better place, can you? 713 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,240 No, you're right. I think it's just really lovely. 714 00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:06,400 Are you happy here? Yeah. 715 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:07,520 And it isn't just lesbians who feel freed up by the atmosphere 716 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,000 of Hebden. 717 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,960 The owners of the local tea shop, Charlie and Kim, 718 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,080 moved here four years ago to find a place they could be themselves. 719 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,640 When you met...? I was still living male, yeah. 720 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,760 And did you always think, in the back of your mind, 721 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,120 that you wanted to...? Yeah, I had been thinking it for quite 722 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,480 a long time. 723 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:44,160 It was kind of a process of sort of getting up the courage, I suppose. 724 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,720 Dunno, it seemed to have, like, a stigma attached to it, you know. 725 00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:49,520 We thought we were gonna lose the business. 726 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,320 I had to sort of, like, prepare myself that my transition 727 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,680 was gonna be seen by the whole town and everybody was gonna be 728 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,600 involved in it. 729 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,040 You know... I mean, but Kim presented quite male, really, 730 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:00,880 when we first met, you know. 731 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,280 A lot of people were really quite shocked. 732 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,560 It's such a difficult journey you're negotiating. 733 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,280 Did you ever, at any point, think of splitting up, 734 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,120 or did you always think of going straight on through? 735 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,640 I always wanted to be with Kim, that's never come under question. 736 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,280 You know, it's just whether or not I could handle everything 737 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,320 that came with that, really, you know? 738 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,880 And, you know, throughout the whole journey, we've not known 739 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,680 how I'm gonna end up feeling towards Kim, 740 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:27,120 if the attraction's gonna fade. 741 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,880 And, luckily, you know... 742 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,480 Which has been a strange experience for me. 743 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,120 My sexuality's completely opened up, you know, throughout this journey. 744 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,080 Really? Yeah, you know. So, it's like, obviously, I'm in a 745 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,640 committed relationship with Kim, so I can't really go and explore, 746 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,800 you know, the women. But I do feel differently about 747 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,920 my own sexuality now. 748 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,800 What would you describe yourself as now? 749 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,240 An accidental lesbian, tresbian. 750 00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:54,600 Tresbian. Tresbian! 751 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,200 I don't know. I don't really see myself in any boxes, really. 752 00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,880 Right, just the same as... Just happen to love Kim. Yeah. 753 00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,000 Do you think here was a key place for this to happen, 754 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,840 or do you think you could have done it anywhere? 755 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,760 I'll tell you a funny thing that happened once. 756 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,760 So I was in there and I was scooping ice cream, 757 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:13,320 and I was like bent over the ice cream freezer, scooping away. 758 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,720 And a woman came in with her granddaughter and she said, 759 00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:19,960 "Oh, do you want an ice cream? We'll get the lady to get you one 760 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,560 "in a minute." And I was like, "Oh, brilliant, lady." 761 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,920 And then I turned round and she was like, "Sorry, man." 762 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,960 And then she went... 763 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,720 And then after that, she goes, "I mean, lady. Oh!" 764 00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:32,240 And she got herself really upset. 765 00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:32,400 She was really upset! 766 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:33,880 And I'd forgotten all about it. 767 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,400 And then about a week later, she came in with a card, 768 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,320 she was mortified that she'd offended me. 769 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,880 And I was like, "You haven't offended me. 770 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,960 "If you were doing something to be cruel, that would be offensive, 771 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,120 "but you just didn't know what to say." 772 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,560 Being in Hebden, I mean, on the whole it's been so supportive, 773 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:53,640 we've been so well received, you know. 774 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:55,800 It's just such an extraordinary place. 775 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,440 How does the straight community...? 776 00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,480 How does everyone work in with each other? 777 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,320 It just is. I never give it a second thought, 778 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,640 in any way, shape or form. 779 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,800 Nobody does, do they? I don't think... 780 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:08,800 I think if you're... 781 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,200 I think, in a privileged position, you don't realise 782 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,840 what a privileged position, you know... 783 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,040 lesbian people have, and I'd never considered that, actually. 784 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,720 That it is just as it is. 785 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:26,200 You know, and how comfortable everybody feels. That's remarkable. 786 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,200 It's just an amazing, kind of, success story. 787 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,040 In a way that the whole world has managed to create this place, 788 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,840 this cafe, you two. 789 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,400 It's incredible, really. Yeah. 790 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,560 For some young gay people, the painful experience of coming out 791 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,160 is still a million miles from the welcome of Hebden Bridge. 792 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,640 But the town represents the best of modern Britain. 793 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,720 A place where it's acceptable to be any shade of gay or straight. 794 00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:57,440 Where sexuality becomes just one part of who you are. 795 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,240 Now, 50 years after decriminalisation, 796 00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:06,440 there's clearly no going back. 797 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,200 45 of the MPs in this place, 14% of the total, are out gay - 798 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:15,920 a new record. 799 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,200 And none of the major parties, at least, would ever dream 800 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,320 of reversing the direction of travel. 801 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,760 We are, of course, a minority. We will always need to be vigilant. 802 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,640 But in 2017, there's no better place in the world than Great Britain 803 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:33,480 to be gay. 804 00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:04,000 Subtitles by Ericsson 71100

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