Original subtitles

I know where it was. - You do?

Was it?

Is it gone? - I think it might be gone.

It was right here.

We picked it up, we touched it.

- Did you walk with it? - No.

- It was not over there. It's a tin. Can.

It's gonna be dirty looking, remember.

Because remember there was like a weird line.

And we made a joke about how it was sitting right on that line.

That line is the water, Greg.

You found it? - Maybe.

Wait you found it?

Be careful with those logs, Greg.

- I don't know if it's it. - I can tell.

It has that creek. Let's see.

I think that's it! That's it!

It's behind that pillar?

- This? - I think that's it, right?

That is it, yes.

- This is the one? - Yeah.

About three months after getting back from shooting

Hellier Season One,

I'm watching one of the early cuts.

With our Season One cameraman, Rashad.

And it looks at me and he says "isn't it a little weird that

it never occurred to any of us

to grab the tin can from the tunnel?

And my brain just kind of melted.

I mean, we literally run the Travelling Museum of

the Paranormal and the Occult.

There is no reason why, as curators of that museum,

Greg and I just wouldn't have tucked it away in the backpack.

It makes literally zero sense.

I don't know why that didn't happen, we had

plenty of time to take it we looked at it,

we kicked it around, it was really weird

that we didn't take it.

Not a single one of us had thought about that

for months.

So with two days left to go, we got in the car and we drove

to Hellier.

It's weird, I think back a lot to that moment.

And it felt like we were ghosts there.

Like we were still sort of there in some way, but we were these

ghosts that kind of just exist in that space now.

And I really felt that, as if we were walking in our own footsteps.

Strand had not been to Hellier before, and wanted to see what it

was all about.

And so we decided let's go see "David's house."

It was really strange to us that we couldn't find it the last time

we were there, but while Karl was editing he was able to scrub

through the footage and find the address on the mailbox.

So with the exact address it was really easy to go out to the spot.

And when we got there... everything made sense to us.

This was the place right here.

Ok, stop. - It's fucking gone.

- Is it burned? - It burned.

- It burned down.

- Wow, it's gone! - It's gone!

The reason that we could not find David's house

is because it had burned to the ground.

We had probably driven right past it and didn't even realize it.

Hellier comes out.

I mean our case, what we have been working on for the last year.

Something that has been in process

for almost half a decade now.

Will be revealed to the public.

And now we're literally sending the biggest signal.

We're releasing the project.

Obviously I hope someone out there knows who David is,

I hope somebody out there knows who Terry is,

I hope Terry and David see Hellier.

I hope they see the project

and that it's enough to make them reach out to us.

I hope people who have had similar experiences to David's

reach out to us.

I hope people who maybe have an expertise that we don't have

reach out to us.

I hope the public helps, I hope they assist.

I think we're going to get interesting leads

out of finally making this thing public.

All we can do is hope.

Greg and Dana Newkirk are a part of

a new YouTube series called "Hellier"

It's a five part series that you can pull

up, and I can honestly say after catching it about a week ago,

it's very impressive.

And what a great documentary it is,

it's incredibly refreshing. I mean this is a story that we've been covering

on the show over a few years or so, we've spoken to Greg

and Dana about it in the past, we've covered some of their

blog posts about it.

I had no idea how good it was going to be.

- It's dropping today.

I've been watching it on YouTube,

it's called "Hellier." Hellier!

- It was created by Greg and Dana Newkirk, and I want to say it

is a breath of fresh air in the world of paranormal activity,

docu-series, where you really get to see what it's like to watch four people

go down the rabbit hole of high strangeness...

I'm already making a plan to binge

watch, and if it's anything like the trailer looks,

you might as well just binge watch it and stay up until

5 AM anyway.

This is a well-produced, creepy film

that delves into UFOlogical topics

I never thought I'd see in a documentary aimed at a broad paranormal audience.

I'm calling it right now, this

film series is essential.

It's essential viewing, it's essential to our understanding I believe

of everything weird..."

It was everywhere. People

were responding to it in a way that I never could have

anticipated.

"Hellier" basically goes... viral.

Everyone is talking about this project.

In ways we... we still struggle to understand, I think.

We start to get tons of emails.

But it was a ton of information, it was a lot of people. Specifically from

the Kentucky area who were reaching out to us to say

"weird shit is happening here too."

You know they were letting us know, "I'm experiencing this stuff, my family

has experienced this stuff, people in my community have experienced

this stuff. It's happening here.

And it's really cool that I finally have something I can point

people towards."

"I found a three-toed footprint, or I saw a UFO in this area,"

or "I have a friend who saw these weird creatures in mineshafts."

All of these people start to reach out about the stories they have had,

The blogs started to pick it up. The UFO crowd then started to

chime in on the case.

People who knew the cipher start to pick up on "Hellier."

And they start to send us their reads on some of the emails.

To us, we were seeing people who have no knowledge

of what we were on to

were starting to get so close to where we were,

we knew that there was something to the cipher. It was working.

This guy named John emails Greg, because he did a cipher 11

analysis on the Terry Wriste emails.

But some guy sat down and put a whole bunch of cipher values.

And literally found the word "ash" out of the Terry Wriste email.

A lot of his analysis kinda pulls out words related to the case,

and kind of reconfigures them in interesting ways.

And kind of draws conclusions from it.

But one of the most interesting

and telling parts of that,

was his analysis of Wriste's misspelling of the word

"window" into "wind" and""

"Ow" equals "ash."

He found that very significant because the words around it

added up to "Indrid Cold" and "John Keel."

So he thought that "ash" was some sort of a significant

connection to those two names,

and he started looking up towns with the word "Ash" in them.

And he was just looked in the wrong direction. He was finding

a bunch of different towns with the word "ash" in the name...

and thinking those were the towns.

He just never looked at Ashland.

They keep going the wrong direction.

But it was so strange that those even popped up.

That this guy found it through the email. Through a cipher.

The Ashland stuff is particularly strange.

There was a night where there was basically a synchronicity

storm. And it hit all of these people on social media at once.

And I got a message on Twitter from a guy named Chad

who really got into the first season of Hellier

and was doing a deep dive trying himself to find

the place that Indrid Cold and Terry met.

He was talking to me about how he was frustrated because he

found all of this information from the other clues that Terry gives.

But he couldn't quite find a Wagon Wheel restaurant.

And the only Wagon Wheel that he could remember,

is a Wagon Wheel restaurant in a town that he used to spend time in

called Ashland, Ohio.

Not Ashland Kentucky, which is the location, but Ashland, Ohio.

So Chad was having a synchronicity himself without realizing it.

But then later that same night, Greg is listening to a podcast

roundtable discussing "Hellier."

And they just start talking about hanging out at the

Wagon Wheel when they were younger.

I spent a lot of time during the summer as a kid

just hanging out at the Dixie Mart near my house.

- No doubt, yeah I hung out at the Wagon Wheel, dude.

- I was at Taco Bell.

It was just a throwaway line, it had nothing to do with

the interview with Terry.

It had nothing to do with "Hellier", it was just something they

were talking about.

That same night, Andy Colvin, the editor of

"Flying Saucer to the Center of Your Mind",

which was such a big part of our Hellier research

reaches out, and says "hey, I have information

I'll send you about Indrid Cold's house.

I found Indrid Cold's house. I think I did.

Now, it was not the same place. It was based on different texts.

But the fact that that came in at the same time all of these

Ashland syncs were happening,

and that it had to do with Indrid Cold's house, it was so pointed.

It was hard to ignore.

There were a lot of people who became really invested in "Hellier",

who really enjoyed it.

But the people I did not expect to hear from so much, was the

occult community. There were Occultists and people invested in

magic and witchcraft, who saw something in "Hellier."

When we realized how invested occultists had become,

in "Hellier's" story, was when things got really, really strange.

At one point, Greg forwarded me an email from January 23rd.

That email was the starting point of a huge change in

perspective about this phenomena.

His name is Jeff Ritzmann. And he sends me this email

with a very intriguing subject heading that says

"David and Terry are Sigils."

And he lays out this whole idea that he thinks

someone is doing some sort of magic ritual.

And that Terry and David are ideas.

And they're meant for people to see them and feel something.

What he essentially says is that "Hellier" as a whole is some sort

of a hyper-sigil.

The case itself is a hyper sigil.

Potentially even the documentary that we're making

is part of this magic working.

I thought that that was really interesting.

That was really compelling.

But what I think made it more compelling was that he introduced

the concept, to me, of liminality, marginality, and anti-structure.

A lot of what he's talking about is drawn from the work of a

parapsychologist by the name of George P. Hansen.

And he wrote a book called "The Trickster and the Paranormal."

These are anthropological concepts that George Hansen applied

to the paranormal. No one had ever done that before.

And he found a lot of consistencies.

And that just started showing up everywhere.

We started to recognize it everywhere.

We were talking about it this whole time and didn't know it.

And those seem like big, heady words. But what he's really laying out is this

idea that in-between states, marginalized people,

and disarray

tend to manifest paranormal activity.

Liminality just means a state of being in-between,

it's kind of a transitionary state that's neither here nor there.

I've never seen the mothman as like a sinister thing.

I've almost seen it more as like a signifier of change.

The teenage state, of being in-between. Like, severe...

Not a child, not an adult. - ...marginality and in-between.

- Poltergeist activity happens to little girls going through puberty most often.

- Exactly. What are the most haunted places in the world?

They're hotels, they're prisons, hospitals, asylums, train stations,

places where people are moving,

When people start to build on a house,

they make an addition or they're tearing part of the house down,

paranormal activity tends to manifest,

they start to see ghosts.

They start to experience poltergeist activity

because the house is in a liminal state, it's not quite finished.

- Even railroad tracks. - Highways, bridges, borders.

There's a trend I started to notice, of bridges and borders.

The bridge is going from one place to another. It's a transition

type of place.

Marginality is people or places or things that exist kind of

on the fringes of society.

They're kind of pushed to the outside, kind of looked at sideways a little bit.

Even when we first got the emails from Amy

one of the things that we talked about was that she was a marginalized person.

So obviously she's not... she's an ostracized part

of the community already.

Yeah but that's what I mean. - So the police wouldn't take her

seriously anyway.

- My personal thoughts on that is that I would find that as more evidence

rather than the lack thereof.

Yeah. I actually agree.

- I find credibility in the type of person that she is

because of that.

We've been digging into these people involved in this case

and how many of them have such horrible backstories.

Criminal activity, all that stuff.

It's almost like the phenomena attracts to it.

Well I think that's an interesting point because you rarely ever see

a like really nice, midwestern housewife possessed by a demon. You see somebody

whose life is in chaos.

They're hoarders, they're criminals, they're people that have attracted

a weird supernatural element to them because of the way that they live.

And antistructure just means what it sounds like. It's not structured,

it's chaotic.

So you bring in liminality and marginality through

all of the main characters in the Hellier case.

You've got the Hopkinsville goblin family who were carnies.

You have David who was marginalized within his community

by the people who lived there and he literally just moved to that house

and was settling into that house in an in-between physical state.

It's not even necessarily a mental state, it's like literally

being in-between living in one place and another.

- Absolutely. - And then you have Amy,

who was literally living in a trailer in Somerset, Kentucky.

A moveable, liminal state.

And the phenomena is reaching out to her.

Once something solid is gained, the high strangeness doesn't

seem to follow those types of people.

It follows the people who are in between.

So we're in the winter months, we can't really go and film

anything right now.

The winter months are Dana and I's time off.

That's when we really don't have anything going on, and so

all I can do is dwell, and think on this case, and think about what

we're going to do about everything.

Greg and I run the Travelling Museum of the Paranormal

and the Occult

and we have a Patreon that involves museum members.

And so one of the things that we like to do

is we'll do live investigations. And we stream them to the

museum group.

So sometimes we'll go to haunted locations, or if we get new

objects we'll do experiments with them.

But they're all streamed live to that group of Patreon subscribers.

Hey everybody

guess where we are?

So we thought, "well let's go do a live investigation at the tunnel

where we found the tin can.

And we'll just see what we see."

There's a few things we want to attempt.

This is the first investigation we've done here since we

were here in 2017.

Careful with the beam there, Greg.

I'm going to put the can in your hands after a few minutes.

Ok.

It takes three of us.

There's three of us here. What do we need to do?

- I just heard um...

Three tones that went boo, boo, boo.

Use the sounds.

That was music... it sounded like.

You figured it out.

Who is Terry Wriste?

Use... tone.

Use the tone?

In the space.

Or... in the through, it was like... you found it, you found it.

- Use the tones. - Where is the space to use

the tones?

- Sound. Bing bing.

- Bing bing.

What is that tone? I wish we like knew a specific--

- It's playing tones. - Man.

- Bing, bing, bing.

Say it for me. That was loud.

the bings]

Right. Bing bing.

- You did it.

Very good.

Do you have more tones?

There's always been this thing about sound...

- Make it.

Make a... make a...

Make something.

Bing bing.

Bing, bing, bing.

- This is Dana, I'm just going to say this now so that I don't forget,

I feel like we're supposed to make something that plays those tones.

Ok.

I think that's what I'm trying to... what they're trying to tell me.

Or that vibration? It said yep yep, you made it.

You make it.

- So here's what's so interesting about that. I believe I talked to

Karl about this one day, but he was even stumbling on research

- talking about how things opened up. - A door.

- A door, would literally open up

when you play certain sounds.

A way through. - A way through.

- With vibration. [Tyler[ With vibrations, yes!

- Bing, bing, bing.

Bing, bing, bing. So I've literally come across...

It sounds so weird!

- I have literally come across reports talking about people being in caverns,

singing a song or hearing music

and something opens up.

They'll see something step out. - Build it.

- Build it, build sounds! - Make it.

It's like chanting, vibrations opening up doorways.

underground.

- Doorways underground. - Bing, bing, bing.

- Like that.

This is unbelievable.

We have to do that.

Bing bing bing

Bing bing bing

I enjoy this.

- Again

You got a handle on it.

It's so clear right now!

My God, we've gotta

Dana] You've got it

Play those sounds.

- Ok, Three, Two, One

Go faster tempo, again.

- Good.

My God!

So if we build a device that makes those

- Star sounds.

- Star sounds. - If we build a device that

makes those noises and we bring it in, or take it somewhere,

where do we take it?

- Vibration.

Where do we need to use that?

A way through.

Constant.

Wait. Do we have to play it constantly?

- Bing, bing, bing. It keeps doing it now.

Bing, bing, bing.

- All... always.

Always.

- Bing, bing, bing.

Where do we use this? That's the question.

We're a bit overwhelmed at the moment.

- In the space between.

In the space between.

The space between.

- One part... - I couldn't make that up.

- Where's the second one? - Telephone.

One part of a telephone...

One part of a telephone?

- He's calling.

He's calling?

How do we answer?

- The dead one.

- Woah. That was something big. - What was that?

What was that?

- Don't trust Jack.

Or Dale.

Don't trust Jack or Dale.

Don't trust Jack or Dale...

Well that's really... specific.

Yeah.

- Or Doug.

Or Doug?!

Fuck.

Who's Doug?

Who's Jack?

- Coyote.

Coyote... my god.

- My god. - A trickster.

A trickster entity.

- What was the sound again?

What did she say?

What was the sound again?

- Good.

Good.

- Good.

Unbelievable!

- Make the tones.

Bing, bing, bing!

- The telephone

Do you hear that?

We're hearing more noises behind us.

- Do the work.

Do the work. We're trying. Trying our best, our damndest.

Thank you for talking to us. - Do the work.

- We'll do the work. We are.

- Build it. Don't quit!

- We're not. - We're never gonna quit.

- Don't stop.

I'm never gonna stop.

Ok thank you.

We'll talk again soon.

- Be strong.

I felt like that live investigation actually

ended up being more important than I initially thought it would be.

I thought that we would go back and experience the same kind

of feeling, and maybe get a few more interesting pieces of information.

But I didn't think that going into it we would have this task

that we then would kind of have to undertake at that point.

And we have to like either... make something that will play

those sounds... at a certain point I thought that we were supposed

to be playing the sounds all at once.

- Mmhm

- Like bing, bing, bing, but like all at once.

Each one of those tones.

Oooh... interesting. Because that would make a more...

Like a harmonic.

- ... complete noise.

Like I felt like there were...

- Then play it because there would be a "wooop" constantly,

play it constantly you said.

That's EXACTLY what that means!

So we have to take those three notes and put them together

Constantly, as in unison.

I totally think that they were trying to say, don't play

them as like ding ding ding,

But play them all at once, in a harmony but constantly.

And it'll help open something. Vibrationally.

Wait, I just remembered a phrase that is so obvious,

there was a phrase you said, you go "it takes three."

It takes three of you.

My god you're right! Three of you!

Three of you! It takes three of you doing it!

Yeah, three notes.

I think the notes, more than anything,

excited the hell out of me. Because now it gave us

something to use inside of the caves.

It felt revelatory.

There's so many tales, alone, of doorways opening up.

People encountering these strange creatures saying that

a door would open in a solid layer of rock, and they would walk

through and it would just seal up.

We left the entire investigation thinking ok, we need to build something that

makes these noises and we need to somehow use them in a particular place.

So to hear that come through an Estes session was both very intriguing,

and slightly concerning.

Simply because we don't really know who or what is telling us

to open this doorway.

And then, we get an email from a guy who claims

that he met Terry Wriste.

Well here's one more, I'll throw one more by you, you can chew on,

might have a lead on somebody who knows Terry Wriste.

yeah.

You will when you hear it, it's the fucking...

Here will you hold this for a second? Let me grab this email.

It's the fucking guy.

- Connor, what you're about to hear is... so insane.

I was initially very skeptical because we were expecting, and have

received emails from people who are claiming different things.

People have created fake Facebook profiles for people like Terry and David.

It's something we naturally expect as a side effect.

So this is the title of the email:

"Terry Wriste was very much a real person and that may have been his name."

Thursday. February 21st, 2019. 6:38 P.M.

"Wriste is a Tennessee name. It originates around the Cumberland Plateau.

If you check the social security death index you should see

Wriste as a name that has died in Kentucky or Tennessee.

It's more common towards Nashville, Memphis, and towards Fort Campbell

area of Tennessee and Kentucky.

Now, how I know this and my memories of Terry Wriste:"

This guy Von lays out this story about how he met Terry when he was a kid.

And that this guy left such an impression on him, that he

remembers it pretty clearly all these years later.

He said it happened in the mid to late 90's, and he met him

when he was going to shoot guns with one of his dad's friends.

"In the 70's. western North Carolina, east Georgia, and Tennessee became

havens for fringe groups we call militia-type.

The most prominent in my area was led by a guy from Maine named Nord Davis.

In the 70's, he and around 8 families moved in. And until the very early 90's

when Nord finally became sick, they would only deal in silver and gold

and that's how they bought their land and anything they owned.

Nord would also bring in speakers and people he'd meet on the

gun show circuit.

My dad worked at a place which made gear cases for outboard motors.

It was a manufacturing plant. When I went up there one weekend

to deliver the equipment for cutting and rolling hay

we ran into a Vietnam vet and his friend Terry.

Terry had been a tunnel rat in Vietnam.

Because Charlie used the tunnel systems, they'd send a man of

smaller build into the suspected VC tunnels with a

hand grenade, a combat knife, and usually two 1911 pistols.

The object was to crawl like a rat through the tunnel,

kill a sentry, shoot to cause commotion or shoot to kill,

and then throw the hand grenade and leave.

Terry maintained that he encountered not only VC down there,

but other anomalous beings.

Spider-like creatures, little men, etc.

This is odd because since 2010,

as the tunnel rats have gradually been dying off,

more have shared stories of running into huge man-sized spiders or goblin-like

creatures in the tunnels.

And that the tunnels were actually constructed by the goblins,

but enlarged by the Viet Cong.

Terry spoke at Northpointe teams, did a firearms demo,

and that was the last I ever heard of him.

I remember speaking to him around 1993-1995."

Seems like a prime time right there, that's when Greenfield would have

talked to him.

"I know the Wriste name comes from the area I described, I know people with

that last name.

I had students with that last name."

A day later he emails this little tidbit:

"Whether intentional or not, Terry misidentifies counties and locations

in North Georgia.

For example, "Deliverance" was shot and set in Rayburn County, Georgia

not White County.

The large gorge he refers to is either Habersham or Stevens County.

Not White County."

I'm still not convinced that's his actual name, but

this guy sounds like he met Terry.

I loved it! The Vaughn email drove me wild.

I loved everything about it. It painted such a perfect portrait

of Terry Wriste, where he fit like a puzzle piece that made sense.

Saying he was a tunnel rat or he was experiencing all these things in Vietnam

and developing these personality traits that ended up leading him down this path

of hunting monsters, I think was fantastic.

I don't know if we believed it right away but it

was something that totally piqued my fascination with this story.

It started to place Terry Wriste in the realm that he may have been a real person.

When you're dealing with people who send you emails about cases that

you're actively working on,

I think it's healthiest to usually approach them

with a healthy amount of skepticism. And I

initially allowed myself to be excited about the email from Vaughn,

but at the same time I kind of pulled myself back and

allowed myself to also think "maybe this is just a person who is

trying to get us excited or toss himself into the conversation.

And that I think is the healthiest place for me to kind of come at a lot of

those types of emails that do tend to get our attention.

And definitely go into the pile of emails that are ones that we

need to actively pursue.

And I'm exchanging emails with him and they're just getting more detailed.

I really start to think... this is our guy.

This is the Terry that we're looking for. This guy met Terry Wriste.

"We drove a short distance to GM and to his BIL gun range.

A guy was waiting for him that had a military jeep.

It was something like a 517 or a 715, or a 175 military jeep pickup.

He had a box built into the back that was basically a gun safe,

and he could hide it by pulling a piece of metal over the safe

and it just looked like the back of a truck bed was there.

He had a safe full of garands.

He had a Texas-built Springfield M1A that had been converted to select fire.

He had an M1 carbine that was an M2 configuration with the select fire.

He had more semi-autos and had a Colt 1911 and Beretta 92's

and the rarest thing he had was an S&W 76 that was built for special forces.

I remember telling him "Hello Mr. Reiss"

He told me his name was "Wriste", pronounced "Ree-st."

The name stuck with me, but I never thought Terry Wriste being

pronounced "Terry Wriste", being like terrorist. It did not hit me as a pun.

While we were loading magazines, he went to his jeep and got a case

of no-name ketchup.

He put up fresh targets, then he put up the bottles of ketchup anywhere he could.

So he comes back, and he fires one shot into a ketchup bottle.

He laughed and said "that's how you take the lid off a communist."

He puts the M1A in full auto,

and he could just barely control it. Mowing down those bottles of ketchup.

"Tell you what, seeing those ketchup tops pop is like watching Charlie lose his

head permanent. Reminds me of being a tunnel rat. I feel like fighting."

He seemed like a different person.

I asked GM later what Terry Wriste did for a living.

GM said he was partially service connected disability.

He always had guns and he followed the gun show circuit

and sold pamphlets.

He claimed to like spelunking. He said he was a river rat.

Loved the rivers. He listed off every major river in the region,

including some most people didn't like because they were too far

back in the boonies."

We should talk to him.

- I mean, he looks like he's super down to talk, the guy is even talking about

getting stuff notarized, he's serious about it.

The reason I wanted to pursue the email from Vaughn,

these details about Terry, was because

it was the best lead that we had on Terry outside of Allen Greenfield.

This guy knew something.

What was the detail about "Hellier" that made you say

"I need to email these guys?"

Wriste.

It was like being sixteen and being creeped out again by Wriste.

The fact that somebody had written about him,

he was claiming to go into caves and blow things up.

And there was this very strange person I met when I was younger.

And it was... it was actually kind of an uncomfortable moment.

The first thing that I noticed about Vaughn, was that he seemed frightened.

Fear was very palpable. And there was a reason that he was that frightened.

And that isn't very comforting.

Was he a tunnel rat? - He was a sapper.

A combat engineer. And apparently part of what his duties was, was he

was a tunnel rat. That's what he said.

And he had the build for it.

He was not a particularly tall person, he was about 5'7"

I think if he had boots on, which he did, he'd be about 5'8".

He was very thin, but he was exceptionally strong.

He was a volatile person. He was exceptionally intelligent,

he was well-read.

And he was surprised to find a kid in the mountains who could talk to him.

Knew what the Apocrypha was, knew about Gnostic texts, hidden text.

And he was interested in that.

He was interested in how much I knew. And he wasn't going to give me any

new information, he was seeing what I knew that he could gain.

Honestly, I read some of it and I can't remember any of it.

I mean I've looked at doing ciphers before,

and I've wondered if it was just an esoteric way of doing rituals,

and then I saw in there that he was talking about blowing up...

and I said "that's the same son of a bitch that I met."

Because he did say that he encountered things in Vietnam

that we would consider cryptids.

This man was erudite, he was intelligent, he was unstable.

He clearly did not like the government.

And he had... he didn't refer to it as magic,

he said "I have interest in esoterica."

He said "it's been part of a line of work."

- So you're fairly certain that Wriste, pronounced "Reest", was his actual name?

Yep. That's what... well he said "this is my real driver's license."

- And he said "look at these others", and he was really proud of the fact that

he had gotten one over on the government.

It is strange though that Allen Greenfield says that Terry Wriste is a fake name.

And Vaughn says it's not.

And at first I think, well that's strange. Maybe they're not the same person.

But I know that when I was concealing David's name,

I was still calling him David.

Sometimes the easiest place to hide is right in plain sight.

I've read about how psychologists evaluate people.

Well, he wasn't interested in making a psychological evaluation.

He was interested in seeing what your beliefs were, what your commitment

to them was, and

what knowledge you had, were you on the same wavelength as him.

Did you have knowledge that he could get out of you

and he not give up exactly what he was doing.

He would have been an expert poker player.

Do you want to hear them?

He used every inappropriate comment you could make

towards... he even called them "Orientals" when he was being civil,

ok? And even at that time that wasn't appropriate.

- Did you ever hear him use the word "sluf"?

- Yes.

- No. You heard him say that word, sluf?

- Yeah.

But, see when he was out there and he was shooting,

he did use that, but he was talking... he used so many

different expletives,

and he was angry about so many different things.

Do you think Terry would be happy that we're trying so hard to find him?

I think he'd get a kick out of it.

- Yeah? Find out who he really is?

Don't think he'd like the idea necessarily of finding who he really is.

But the idea that "I'm still out there and I'm still in circulation"?

He'd get a kick out of that.

So my, my concern with what we're doing right now...

I think we're all on the same page where we don't really want to,

we don't want to dox Terry.

We don't want to

we don't want to tell people "his name is Joe Brown and he lives in this place"

right?

I think we're trying to find him because we have questions we want to ask him.

He had roots in Kentucky.

He wasn't going to come out and openly say that.

But he knew too much about Kentucky.

Too much about where things were, what was going on,

the history.

After he had left, I actually said

"is there a chance I'm going to run into that guy again?"

What I was asking was:

"Am I going to get clipped in the middle of town from 500 yards away?"

Vaughn was... I mean... what freaked me out even more was the fact that

Vaughn was clearly rethinking talking to us on camera after we were done.

I think I'd like to meet Terry Wriste on a good day and not a bad day.

I'd like to meet him if we're doing what he thinks we're supposed to be doing.

I don't think I'd want to meet him if he disagrees.

Fuck yeah I want to meet Terry Wriste!

Are you out of your mind?!

Of course!

God. I think Terry and I would have a lot to talk about.

So we're at this point where we've got this guy who says he's personally met

Terry Wriste. And has a lot of information about him.

There's an entire community of occultists who are picking "Hellier" apart and

giving us really detailed explanations for why we're doing some sort of an

initiation ritual.

We're not sure for who. Maybe it's for Terry, maybe it's for an ultraterrestrial.

We don't know.

But no matter which way we look now, all the roads point to one person.

And we can't go any further without talking to them.

And that person

is Allen Greenfield.

Literally there have been half a dozen people who've come and said

"you know you're doing a ritual for Greenfield, right?"

"He can't do it himself anymore so you guys are doing it for him."

A lot of them think that we're doing an initiation of some kind.

It's other people, it's ritual magicians, who are coming in and saying

"you guys are doing a ritual."

"It's obvious. You guys are being initiated for something."

I want to ask him, I mean at this point I hope he brings this up

automatically, but if he doesn't bring this up himself,

I want to say "you know there's a lot of people who've come

to us. This has resonated with the magical community quite a bit.

And they all seem to believe that we're doing some sort of ritual.

Is that possible?

And if it is,

what's the purpose of that ritual

in your view? Seeing what's going on,

having watched "Hellier," what's the purpose of this ritual?"

So if he doesn't automatically bring that up that's kind of suspicious.

- Right.

There he is.

♪ "Wolves" by Samantha Cay Royall