All language subtitles for 1x02 wrong man

Her testimony
and the fact that

"it was him
that pulled the trigger"...

It was literally an execution,

and, uh, that's why it was
a good verdict.

How are half of the witnesses
saying it's a juvenile,

and the other half
are saying it's an adult?

And I pushed him hard.

And he started beating
on the desk, saying,

"Look, I did not kill Jose."

We believe that they
caught the right guy,

and now he's playing
mister victim?

Does this reconstruction show

that he was the one
that pulled the trigger?

No.

This is telling us how,
not who.

Detective Rivard knew Evaristo,

had had a series of bad
encounters with him.

Evaristo was, um,
a troubled kid.

Do you have any idea why
this confidential informant

would say you were
the one who did it?

So I think
we have one goal now...

Find the informant.

Nice-looking mountains.

Yeah, we're in... I guess
we're in the lower valley of Yakima,

pretty nice little area
though over here.

Yeah.

Farm country.

We're on our way
to see Jim Rivard,

the detective
in this case.

Can't wait to talk to him.

It'll be interesting
what he saw and heard

the days after this thing,
you know?

Yeah.
Hopefully he'll talk to us.

We need a break.

Yeah, we do.

If this is like
the regular news,

I'll probably talk
for 15 minutes,

and there'll be, like,
30 seconds on the show.

Right. Just be yourself like
you were out in the...

-Oh, yeah, oh, that's...
-I mean, you know, hey,

you're speaking to us
from the heart, man.

Yeah.

So, Jim,
how did you get this case?

Um, at the time,
I was a detective

for the police department,

and it was assigned to me

'cause I was
the detective sergeant.

And how long had you been
a detective?

Uh...

Did this case take place
in '96?

'95.
November 14, 1995.

In '95, okay,
November of '95, well,

I went into detectives about,
I think, July of that year.

-July of that year.
-Yes.

And how many homicides had you
worked prior to this homicide?

-My first one.
-That was your first one?

-Wow.
-Yep.

I spent an extensive
amount of time

with the victim's girlfriend,

and over the entire
course of the case,

I had showed her 11 or 12
different photo lineups,

and nothing came home...
nothing.

As time went on, you know,

we would get different stories
from people, rumors.

You know, we had leads
that would come in,

and they would just go dead.

I also had an informant
that I worked with extensively

in Sunnyside
on drug cases.

He kind of knew what was
going on in that town,

and he would go to a place,
and he would see the drugs,

and then he would come
and tell me and say,

"Hey, Jim,
there's 1/2 pound of marijuana

at 301 Riverview Lane,

and it's in the closet."

One afternoon, he was with me,
and I had asked him

if he had heard anything
about this shooting,

and the informant goes,
"What are you talking about?

I already told you
who shot him."

He says, "Don't you remember?

I told you that
I actually smoked

with the guy that told me

that he wouldn't have
wanted to be the one

that cleaned up the mess
inside that pickup.

I don't know his name."

And I says,
"Well, can you get it?"

And he goes, "Yeah,
I-I-I can probably get it."

A couple weeks goes by, and he
cannot locate this person,

so I says, "Well,
we're gonna have to figure out

another way to find him,
I guess."

In this case,
it's genuinely bizarre.

They had absolutely no reason
to think Evaristo was involved

until an alleged
coincidental meeting.

My informant comes into
the office one afternoon,

and he says,
"Jim, I got three places

where I know there's drugs."

And I said, "Okay. Well,
let's do the search warrant."

So I start typing up
the search warrants,

and a deputy from the
sheriff's office comes to me,

and he says,
"I got this fellow

over in one
of the interview offices.

I just got done
interviewing him," and he says,

"You got anything you want
to talk to him about?"

I looked at him and said,
"Yeah, I'll take a minute

to go talk to him," and I grab
my Polaroid camera off my desk,

and the young man's name
was "Junior" Salas.

And I said,
"Well, you know, Junior,

I was gonna talk to you,

but I really don't have
anything to talk to you about,

but I am gonna
take your picture."

So, why'd you
take his picture?

To this day,
I couldn't tell you why.

And I walked back
to my office,

and I had the picture
in my hand.

It kind of slid across
my desk a couple inches,

and my informant looked at me,
and he says,

"Hey, what do you need me for?"

He says, "That's the guy
right there that told me

he shot him in the head."

And the picture
that I put on my desk,

I put that in a photo lineup,

and I showed it
to the victim/wife,

and I still get
goose bumps to this day.

When she pointed to that
picture, she said, "That's him."

Sergeant Rivard had
the victim's wife

come in to look
at a photo montage,

and I remember
she let out a scream,

and when I turned around,
she was crying,

and she's saying,
"That's the guy that did it."

And do you know who the guy
was that she was identifying?

Well, obviously, the one
that was convicted.

-And who was that?
-I don't remember his name.

You don't remember his name?
-No.

You don't even remember his name?
No.

I remember the tears.

I remember she was crying.

She was... You could see
the fear in her face.

That's how law enforcement

first got to Evaristo
in the first place.

He was not a suspect before.

Nobody identified him
fleeing or coming or going.

That was it...

this snitch who
coincidentally just happened

to see the photos that Rivard
coincidentally just happened

to have taken of the guy

who just happened to be in the
police station being questioned

on something
totally different,

and Ofelia confirms it,
and that's the...

that's the...
the end of the case,

really, as far as
the cops were concerned.

That's, like,
an amazing coincidence.

Coincidence.
What's going on with Rivard?

Why does he even have Evaristo's
pictures out on his desk?

Even the way the pictures are
taken are almost incriminating.

-They're mug shots.
-Yeah, yeah.

They got him to the side
and to the front.

Right.You know, it's very convenient,
the informant.

You know, what takes him
so long to bring it forward?

-Right.
-You know, we know informants.

A lot of them want
to collect money.

You know that, Ira.
It's what they're a snitch for.

This could have been
a payment for him.

Right,
this is a murderer,

not just a little crappy
little drug case.

-This is a great big murder.
-Yeah.

You'd think he'd go
running over to Rivard.

Do you remember the informant
that the prosecution called?

Do you remember him saying
he couldn't remember things?

Oh, yeah.

The prosecution had
asked him some questions.

Okay.

Then the defense
attorney says, "Okay."

He says, "I asked you
a question,

and you gave
a different answer.

Can you explain that?"

And he says, "Oh, yes."
He says, "I can explain that."

He says, "I have been
doctor-diagnosed

with CRS Disease."

And what was CRS?
Did he tell you what that was?

-Yeah, well, they asked him.
-Okay.

It was
Can't Remember Shit.

Everybody is just looking
at the prosecution at that time

because their jaws
just dropped,

you know, that they put
this guy on the stand.

That right there
kind of blew him out

-as far as I was concerned.
-Uh-huh.

I don't know of anybody
in the courtroom

that wasn't surprised.

Do you believe
he's guilty?

I believe,

when that woman
reacted that way,

there's no doubt.

That's what I believe.

There's no doubt
about what?

That the person
she pointed out

is the person
that shot her husband.

That's what I believe.

So you believe
he's guilty because...

No, no, no, no. So you don't believe
he's guilty?

The jury found him guilty.

But you can't say whether
he's innocent or guilty?

The jury
said he was guilty.

I'm asking you.
What do you think, your opinion?

He was found guilty,
so I believe he's guilty.

There was only
two identifications

that convicted him.

-That was it.
-I don't...

Two witnesses.

Would you feel comfortable
with your son

sitting in jail on that?

-Pretty tough.
-It is pretty tough.

Pretty tough.

Yep.

Yeah.

Could you see yourself
sitting in jail

with just two witnesses?

I can only say that I put that
case in front of that jury,

and they made the decision,
and these two people

told what they...
what they... the truth.

In my mind, they told
the truth that day in court

'cause this informant
had no reason to lie,

and I-I just have to believe
what he told me.

When we left Rivard's
house, you know,

I kind of was,
you know, 50/50.

I'd say, "You know what?
This guy seems like

a really nice cop."

I think you and I were both
trying to give him

the benefit of the doubt.

Sorry. We'll go over here
and try to track down this...

this boy, Bill,
that informant.

You can never
trust a snitch.

You play them and work them,
but you can't ever trust them.

No.

Janell actually found
Bill's address for us,

and we were on our way there,
and we decided, said,

"Well, you know what?
This was his informant.

Let's see if he can
contact his informant

and let him know
we're coming."

Okay.And then maybe, you know,

we'd be received
a little bit better. Oh, to... Right.

Rivard had no idea
we're sitting, what, 150 yard,

I mean,
oh, let's go 200 yards,

I guess, as a crow flies
from the informant's house.

Hey, Jim.
How you doing?

Hey, this is Ira again.

Hey, um, your source,

yeah, uh, do you
still have a number for him?

Not sure
where he's living at?

When we started talking
about his informant,

all of a sudden,

he didn't want us talking
to his informant.

Okay.
Thanks a lot.

Appreciate you.
Bye.

Is he gonna call him now?

Yeah, he said, first of all,
he didn't have his number.

He said, "But I might
can find somebody."

I said, "Well, we're right
in the area."

And he said, "Oh, l-let me
make a call right now.

I think I can
find it right now."

So he know exactly
where he's at.

Yeah.

It stinks like hell
around here.

-Oh, my God.
-Yeah. It does.

-God.
-This is definitely cow town.

And that's worse
than dead bodies.

Whoo, golly.

I got extras
if anybody needs extra.

What's going on, Ira?

Oh, I'm telling you man,
this is, like, horrible.

I couldn't handle it.

We sit there,
I'm telling you,

it was probably
less than 5 minutes, right?

He calls back.

Hey, Jim. You found
his house that quick?

You are still a detective,
man.

That is pretty good.

He's just down
the road from you?

Oh, wow,
that's small world.

"And guess what?
He only lives, you know,

a short distance from me.
I didn't know that."

-Oh, you're good!
-0.4 miles.

Within 5 minutes.Now, we're talking about
a rural area, too.

-Yes.
-Okay, this is not Detroit.

Okay. Thanks a lot.
I appreciate you.

Mm-hmm. Bye.

What... what...
what's his story?

He said he, uh...
he called a friend,

a relative of his,
and he told him where he lived,

and he said he discovered

he lived about a mile
away from him,

but he said,
"But I don't know the address."

-Oh, yeah.
-So then he said, um,

he'll... he'll try
to get in touch with him

and try to convince him,

but he probably would need,
like, a couple hours

or something like that.

So what's he trying to say,
don't go up to the door?

So... Well, let's go
see if Bill is there.

Yeah, I agree.

Hey, man, somebody
could mistake us

as some robbers,
you know that?

Cops and robbers.

Here we go.

"Yeah,
I saw this fat white guy

and this black guy with this
white mask, surgical mask on."

White mask. "I don't know what the hell
they were doing."

All right.
Let's see if...

Let's see what old boy is.

At first, he lies and says
he don't know

how to
get in touch with him.

Then he say he might can
get in touch with him,

gets in touch with him,
like, in 5 minutes.

He lives awful damn
close to him.

I know.
That's pretty interesting.

That is, man.

He live right down the street
from his snitch.

That thickens the plot
a little bit, Ira.

It does.

Oh, let's see.

Yeah.

Left the light on.
That don't make any sense.

Hey, Bill!

Blow the horn.

Bill!

There we go.

Bill!

He closed his door.

Mm, mm, mm.

So not only he's a snitch,
he's a rude snitch.

Yeah.

So I think
we need to call Jim

and say,
"Hey, old boy is home.

Call him up and tell him
to talk us."

Yes, let's do that.
Let's do that.

-Right?
-Absolutely.

Yeah.

Hey, Jim.
This is Ira again.

Yeah,
we just got by his house.

His car is there.

You want to try
to give him a call?

Yeah, we right
at his house right now.

Oh, that's beautiful.
That's beautiful.

I appreciate you, man.

Thank you.

He's gonna come
down the street

and talk to him
right quick.

Oh, well, heck.

Well,
this will be interesting, huh?

This is gonna be
real interesting.

We'll see what old boy
has got to say.

Oh, yeah.
I think these guys know

each other a lot
better than we think.

Mm-hmm.

-Oh, there he is.
-Mm-hmm.

All right.

Get the window, Ira.

Yeah, let him.
See if he'll talk to him.

Well, there we go.

He got his PJs on
and everything.

-Oh, man.
-Oh, he just walking right up.

Oh, look at that.

Mm, mm, mm, oh, yeah, you
better close that gate, buddy.

That little thing... That
little monster gonna get you.

Oh, yeah, he's got to be
sweating a little bit.

Oh, yeah.

So he's knocking on the door,
and he's trying to get him,

a-allegedly, to come out
and talk to us.

Right.Now, this is an informant you
haven't seen in years, right?

This is an informant that
you're comfortable enough

to go over there without
your gun in your pajama bottoms.

And then he comes out and says
Bill don't want to talk to us.

He... you know, he wants
some time to think about it,

that kind of thing,
right?

So I thought that
was interesting.

-Yes.
-Hmm.

-That's beyond interesting.
-Yes.

-Wow.
-They into something.

Mm-hmm.

Something's going on.

Well...

Now we got some real
digging to do.

We do.

When we left Rivard's house,

he seemed like he was
really into the case,

seemed like he was really
diligent about the job,

seemed like he really
loved the job,

but later on,
we caught him in a lie

when we started talking
about the informant, Bill.

He didn't want you
talking to him.

He didn't want us talking
to the informant.

It was interesting
that we hadn't been gone

from his house an hour
and 15 minutes.

He's blowing your phone up.

Yes, and then
he kept calling me.

-I mean...
-He kept calling you?

I'm telling you, like,
every 30 minutes on the dot.

So what was that telling
you guys, the way he was acting?

He's trying to control
that situation.

He's trying to find out
what we know.

Right, he wants to know what you
know and what you found out.

He's afraid that we're gonna
find out something

that he don't want us to know.
-I think he is...

He is nervous.

I think that was probably
a sleepless night for him.

Oh, yeah.

This morning, uh,
Detective Rivard called me

while I was eating breakfast
just out the blue.

He wanted to talk to me
about Bill.

And, I mean, for some reason,

this guy is trying to convince
me not to talk to Bill,

and it seems like he's trying
to control our investigation

like he controlled the
investigation 20 years ago.

He kept saying,
"Hey, look, I don't think

you guys need to talk to Bill."

But what I got out
of the conversation

was Detective Rivard is worried
about us talking to him,

and I think he knows this guy
is weak and a little vulnerable,

and I think he knows
this guy will give it up

if we put a little
pressure on him.

Janell tracked him down
through Facebook

and asked him
if he would talk to me.

We obtained his phone number,

and he didn't
call back initially.

You know, he just
kind of ignored it,

and I just was persistent.

I kept calling
and kept calling,

and then I got that call back.

So when he called back,
I just started talking to him,

and then, I just started,
you know,

empathizing with him
about the whole situation

and told me that he was
getting his life together.

I even said a prayer with him
over the phone.

He would say, "Well,
let me think about it.

Let me talk to an attorney,
and I'll call you back."

Couple times,
he wouldn't call back,

so I just keep calling him,

kept calling him,
and kept talking to him.

He was reluctant
to come forward

and actually tell the truth
about the whole thing,

but eventually, he did.

Hey, Bill, how you doing?

-How are you doing?
-Thank you for coming down.

I really appreciate it.

-No problem.
-Have a seat.

All right.

So, I'm glad you showed up,

and at the time all this
took place,

you lived in Sunnyside?
-Yes, sir.

Okay. How long have you lived
in Sunnyside?

-Um, all my life.
-Okay.

Did you have problems with drugs
or anything like that?

You know, I didn't do one drug
until the age of 22.

Mm-hmm.

And then I hit them
pretty hard, absolutely.

And then, during that time,
did you get

in any trouble
with law enforcement?

Lots and lots of it.
It hasn't been easy.

I know.

So, when did you first come
in contact with the police

where you start
doing informant work?

I got pulled over, and I got
caught with methamphetamines,

and, uh, I was arrested
and let go right away

'cause I agreed
to work with Rivard,

and that's when
it all started.

And you helped him
close a lot of cases?

Yes.

Did he ever ask you at any time
to lie on any of those cases?

Well, on a few cases...

...I'd just be given
a piece of paper.

I remember walking
all the way to court.

I didn't know nothing about
what was going on,

reading exactly what I had
supposedly witnessed, and...

-You never witnessed it?
-I never witnessed none of it.

It was like... like a book
report, you know what I mean?

I read it and then
just answered questions.

Okay.

So you just went along with
Detective Rivard told you to do?

Yeah, it was
pretty much a... yeah.

-So on this
Junior Salas case...

-Mm-hmm.
-Okay.

...explain to me how all...
all of it went down.

Well, I was coming
into the department

to collect some money
for something I had done,

and he had just got done
interviewing Salas,

and he was outside
on the sidewalk there,

and Rivard come in,

"You see that piece of shit
right there?"

He said, uh,
"I got to get him."

What that... Was that his exact
words, "I got to get him"?

-"I'm gonna get him, man."
-"I'm gonna get him."

Try to tell me
exactly what happened next.

He gave me some money
to go hang out with him,

gave me a sack of marijuana
to hang out and smoke and...

-Okay.
-...see what he had to say

and, uh, get him to tell me
exactly what he'd done and...

Did he tell you where they hung
out, or did you already know?

Oh, he told me where
they hung out at.

Okay. So you go in, and
he make any admissions to you?

No.

No admissions whatsoever?

So you went back
to Rivard.

-Right.
-And you told him,

"Hey, I couldn't find
out any information."

Right, it was...
you know, right.

And how did that
make Rivard act?

He showed me a photo lineup, so
I, of course, pointed him out.

I knew who he was.

And then he gives you
a document and said,

"This is what happened"?
-Pretty much, yes,

and then I had to
put it in my own writing.

He... He assured me it would
never go to court,

that they already had
another witness that would...

that, you know,
that he would plead out.

You know, at the trial,
you seemed extremely agitated

-with the prosecutor.
-Yeah.

And one time, you said that, um,
you had CRS Syndrome,

Can't Remember Shit Syndrome.
-Shit, yeah.

And why were you
so agitated?

You know, I-I didn't
want to be there,

and I think I was trying
to everything I could do

without making it obvious
that, uh...

that I didn't know
anything.

I can't remember shit
'cause I didn't know shit.

So you never
really knew Salas?

No.

Did you get paid any money
to lie on Salas?

Not at the time,
but the following case,

I was compensated
quite a bit.

Were you aware
that we asked Rivard

if he could tell us
where you lived,

and he told us
he had no idea?

You know, I've been his neighbor
for almost five years.

He stops in occasionally.
I see him all the time.

I'm out in the yard all the time
waving at him. All the time.

So he lied to us? Absolutely,
absolutely lied to you.

Now, why do you think he didn't
want us know where you live?

Because he didn't
want you to find me.

And why do you think
he didn't want us to find you?

It's pretty evident.

It don't take a detective
to figure that one out.

If you encountered
Jim Rivard after today,

uh,
what would you tell him?

You know, I've got absolutely
nothing to say to that man.

Almost, he... Like, he had
two different personalities.

There will be a certain group
of people that'll tell you

he's the greatest guy
in the world,

and there's another
group of people

that'll tell you
what a piece of crap he is.

When did you decide
to tell the truth?

The kid is innocent,

and I've lived with it every day
for 20-plus years,

not near as much as he has,
obviously,

but definitely something
has got to be done.

Would you submit to a polygraph?
I would.

Today, would you submit to a polygraph?
Right now.

Okay.
Lift up your arms.

The way
the polygraph test works

- isn't whether
you're nervous or not. - Right.

-Should be nervous, okay?
-Absolutely.

Uh, because it's not every day
people are taking a polygraph.

Right.

If indeed you told the detective
the full truth,

the polygraph will say so.

Okay.

So I'm gonna ask you
some other questions too

pertaining
to your honesty, okay?

The last thing you want to do
is lie to me

-about anything in this room.
-Right.

-Okay?
-Right.

Just answer my questions
yes or no.

Do you go by
the name of Bill?

Yes.

Did Evaristo Salas
actually confess to you

that he shot anyone?

No.

Did Detective Jim Rivard

provide the information
you testified to at trial?

Yes.

Did you know at the time
of the trial

the information you testified
to on the Salas case was false?

Yes.

-Thank you, sir.
-You're good to go.

Thank you much.

I'm doing what is called
an examiner numerical evaluation.

Okay.
And, uh,

I was giving each of
the charts a hand score...

Okay. ...between, um, minus three,
which is deception,

to plus three,

which is,
uh, non-deception.

I would feel comfortable
enough to call this

a non-deceptive test.

Beautiful.

Well, man, you passed
with flying colors.

-Well, I knew that.
-Thank you very much.

You bet.

-So you knew that, huh?
-I knew that.

I kind of figured it too,
you know?

Thank you
for telling the truth.

-You bet.
-Okay.

And I'm gonna try the hell
to get out of town.Yeah, yeah.

Probably the best thing
I could do.

Well, at least you did
the right thing, right?

-Yeah.
-Well, I really appreciate it.

I feel better about it.
That's all that matters.

Yeah.
Thanks again, man.

I really appreciate that.
-You bet.

Thank you.

-Good morning, everybody.
-Good morning!

How you doing?

We heard there was some news
of... of some urgency,

so what's going on?

Yeah, Bill came onboard,

and, uh, Bill gave up
a lot of information

that's gonna be helpful
to us and passed...

How'd you get him
to do that, Ira?

Oh, just... just stroked him
a little bit,

you know, just kind of,

you know, sand him down
a little bit, you know.

Okay, he claims that Rivard
pressured him

into manufacturing his story.

-He made it...
-It never happened?

He made it all up. Yep.

Okay, Rivard gave him marijuana
to smoke with Evaristo.

Bill claims that he smoked
with Evaristo,

but he never overheard him say
anything that was incriminating.

And remember the photograph
incident where Rivard said

that Bill just noticed
the photograph?

Yeah, that was themoment that
established the identification

and allegedly put Evaristo
on the suspect radar screen.

Well, Bill said that Rivard
pointed him out to Bill.

Whoa. Nice job, man.

Oh, yeah.

And Bill said it's not
the first time he's done it.

And, uh, there was
something else.

Oh, yeah.

Bill said that, um,
a guy walked up to him

a couple of years afterwards

and thanked him
for getting him off.

Wow.

-Interesting.
-Wow.

I'ma show you
a series of photos,

and if you see the guy,

would you just tell me that's
the guy that told you that,

that made that
statement to you?

Do you think
you'll remember him?

I would probably remember him,
and I'll look at each photo,

and I'll tell you
if he's on there.

-Okay.
-Let's have a look.

Okay.

Was it that person?

No?

Was it this person?

And Bill picked out Ricardo

as that...
being that individual

that walked up to him

and thanked him
for getting him off.

He was the real shooter.

You know, if you remember,

a witness claimed to have
heard a woman scream,

"Ricardo, leave him alone,"
just before the murder.

Told me, "You know what?
Thank you, man.

I don't know what you did,
but thank you,"

and, uh, he told me that, uh,
he was the one that done that

and, uh, "I don't know why,
but thank you."

He said he was the one
that did what?

That he's the one that shot
the guy on Saul Road.

He looked at it hard.

I mean, he really
looked at it hard.

He looked like he was afraid,

but he claimed
he's only about 60% sure.

But just by the way
he looked at that photograph,

I think he's a little bit
more than 60% sure.

Oh, wow.

And... And Bill now he's clean
and sober and...

Clean and sober.
He looks good.

You know, he came
with his girlfriend.

You know, and it... you could
tell it was hard.

It was difficult for him.

But I think he wanted to step up
and do the right thing.

We're off to
Detective Jim Rivard's house.

This is a return visit

after we got a little
bit more information.

I'm kind of doubting

Detective Jim Rivard
these days,

so now I'm gonna
use a technique

that I think will be effective,
especially on cops.

I'm gonna blow some smoke
up his ass, basically.

Hey, how you doing?
Listen...

Come on, bud,
we can do it inside,

or it's not too windy back here
if you want to do it here again.

-Um...
-It's up to you.

If you want to come inside,
come inside.

Probably inside 'cause
there's a lot of birds and stuff

like that chirping and stuff
if that's okay with you.

-Yeah, yeah.
-Okay.

Come in.

Oh, my God, man.

This is amazing.

Yeah, I know.

-Oh, my God.
-Yeah, lot of years hunting.

Yeah. I'm getting older, and
it's getting harder now.

-I know.
-So...

That's probably why you're
in such good shape.

-You bet.
-Look at that.

-Oh, yeah.
-Oh, I didn't see the bear.

-Yeah.
-Oh, my God, man.

I'd like to borrow
that bear's hat.

I like that hat.

Oh, yeah.
That was my... my dad's hat.

When he...
-Oh.

When we went riding horses,
he'd wear that hat all the time,

so I figured I'd put it
in a good place.

It always be around.
-Okay. Yeah.

-So...
-That's good, too.

Anyways, Ira, how's it been
going on the investigation?

It's been going good.

-Mm-hmm.
-It's been going really good.

Um, there were some
new developments.

A lot of the stuff
I can't talk about

on camera and stuff like that...
Mm-hmm.

...because it's still
in the process of investigating

and whatever like that,
and there's some legal things.

Mm-hmm. We also talked
to a bunch of guys

that said they were your sources.
Mm-hmm.

And they said they had did
some source work for you,

doing narcotics, you know.
-Mm-hmm.

And, you know, a lot of guys
was talking about, you know,

"This guy is the greatest thing
since sliced bread."

Mm-hmm. You know, saying,
"Hey, he was a good cop.

He looked out for us,
you know?"

And they said, like, a lot of
times, you took guys to rehab

and things like that
and tried to get them clean.

Mm-hmm.
You know, I played fair.

-Mm-hmm.
-I always played fair.

-Yeah.
-I never broke the rules.

Who was your best source?

Well,
there was one individual.

He was my best,
and he was really something.

He could slide into anything.
I... It was amazing.

It just...
-This wouldn't be the same one

that was on the Salas case,
would it?

Well, I'll reserve comment, okay?
Okay.

-Okay?
-Okay.

-And, uh, yeah.
-Well, let me...

Let's talk about the one
that was on the Salas case.

-Okay.
-Was he a good source?

-Yes.
-Or was he...

-He was a good one?
-Yes.

Good.
He never got paid for that?

He never got paid for that.
He didn't get a nickel.

You couldn't even throw him,
like, a little bone...

Nope. Not a... Not a... ...couple, down the line,
just pay him?

Not a penny, nothing.

Well, I'm gonna...
Since you said that,

I want to share
something with you.

Bill kind of said you gave him
double payment afterwards.

He did?

And how you kind of
hid the payment

was you just gave him
a double payment

after the case,

so he technically
got paid,

but, you know,
but it was a double payment.

He said, basically,
you forced him

to lie on different cases
for narcotics. He did?

Yeah, that's what... Yeah,
that's why I was asking you,

you know, how's
your relationship

because something made him
very sour about you.

I would never force him into
lying about anything, and...

Something happened, then,
because he even said...

-Uh-huh.
-...on the Salas case...

Mm-hmm. ...he said that
whole photograph thing...

-Right.
-...he said it never happened.

-You are kidding me?
-Yeah, yeah.

He said,
"We set up Salas."

-Now, I did one of...
-Oh, that's not true.

-I know. I... yeah.
-Absolutely not.

I did one of these,
and I was like,

"You set up Salas?
What do you mean?"

I said,
"Evaristo Salas... Junior?"

I guess he said, one day,
he was in the office.

He was picking up a payment
that you owed him.

He said he saw Salas
walking out, and he said...

I mean, he actually did this.
He pointed like this.

He said, "That's the guy
that killed Jose,"

and he said you said it
as if, like,

"I'm telling you that's
what you need to say." No.

He even signed an affidavit
to all of this.

He took a polygraph too.
Passed.

-He passed it?
-He passed.

Well, how did you find out
where Bill lived?

'Cause you said you didn't
know where Bill lived.

So you stopped by there?

Yeah, see, his mom used to live
in that little single-wide home.

-Okay.
-And I knew that much.

I knew if I went down there, I
could get it out of them, so...

Now I'm not calling you
a liar or anything.

-Oh, no, no, no.
-But I remember...

Yeah. ...you told me you
made a phone call first.

Yeah, I did.
I told you that.

I told you
I made a phone call.

-But you didn't.
-I did not call.

I went down there. Okay.
You just went down there.

-Okay.
-You didn't want me to know.

You know what?

I'm still trying
to protect him.

-Oh, okay.
-Okay?

Okay. I'm still trying to
protect the guy, okay?

Yeah.

I don't want to say...
I don't want to say I lied.

I just want to say that if
he didn't want to talk to you,

I didn't want
to expose him any further

because he had already
been through a lot.

And he...
And he said he feared you.

He feared you.

I know.
He said he feared you.

We just want the truth,
you know, and that's it.

-Hey, and you know what?
-Yeah.

If Bill lied and this guy
is innocent...

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

...I'm gonna be upset,
too.

I know.
I know.

I'm not that great investigator,
this big hero.

I just got lucky.

I mean, I took a picture.

I went back to my desk.

I mean, there's no variance in
my story of what I've told you.

That is what happened.

If Bill lied,

then I guess Bill is gonna
have to answer to the court

and everybody else
for lying, you know?

No, I agree with you.

I believe whoever lied is
gonna have to answer for it.

I really do.
-Exactly.

Whoever...
Whoever told a lie in this case,

I think they're gonna
have to answer for it.

You know, there was one
big lie that I ca--

that I caught him on,

and he couldn't lie
out of it anymore,

and it was when he admitted
to lying to me

about not knowing
where Bill lived,

and his excuse for lying to me

was he was trying
to protect Bill.

He was just trying
to protect Bill.

And I just thought that was
just a weak way of...

to defend that lie.

He should have just admitted,
"Hey, look, I lied

because I didn't want you
to talk to him

for whatever reason."

It's kind of like
a bittersweet moment.

It's kind of a little sad
for law enforcement,

and I think he's a little
worried right now.

Well, Ira, I know
you've done a lot of good work

-on the Salas case.
-Yeah, a lot of good work, Ira.

Ira's the MVP of...
of the Salas case.

Oh, absolutely.

Okay, we're gonna call
Jim Rivard.

We're gonna call Detective Rivard?
Yes.

You've got a good relationship
with him at this point.

One cop to another cop,
you know.

Yeah, I'm anxious
to hear this one.

We always blue no matter
what even if, you know,

he's a little dirty blue.
-All right.

Well, I'm gonna let the blue
do most of the talking.

Here we go.

-Hello?
-Hey, Jim. It's Ira.

How you doing?

Pretty good.

Okay. Hey, I'm here

with, uh, Joe,
Sue-Ann, and Ron.

They're part of the team.

-Hey, Jim.
-Hey, Jim.

-Hey, Jim
-Hey, how you doing?

I've gone beyond

what's required of me,

you know, even talking to
you folks about this case.

I have been advised
by the prosecuting attorney,

by the Chief of Police
of Sunnyside,

by the city manager that,

"Jim, you are not being asked.
You're being interrogated.

You did a job on this case,

and that's what you did,"
and that's what I did, Ira.

I did my job.

You know, I had
a heart operation,

open-heart surgery,
February 1st.

You know, I've had enough
stress put on me over this case

since you've talked to me,
and, uh, you know, I'm...

I don't have anything else
to prove here, Ira.

-I've done my job.
-No, no, I-I agree with you.

-Yeah.
-But you...

But you got to understand
too there's allegation

that there's a innocent
person in jail,

and we're not
interrogating you.

You know that.
You know the difference

between an interrogation
and an interview.

Just put yourself
in my shoes.

If somebody said,
"Look, um, this guy took

a photograph of me
for no reason,

and then, all of a sudden,
less than five minutes later,

somebody is saying I'm the one
that did the murder,"

it would seem a little strange
to you, too, right?

It isn't a perfect world,
Ira.

Right.

It... It just...

All, I can say is

my dad raised me
to be humble.

He raised me to tell the truth,
and that's just who I am, Ira.

-Mm-hmm.
-And you... if you don't want

to believe me that I threw
that picture on that desk,

go ahead and don't believe me,
but that's what happened, Ira.

Have you not been truthful
with us on anything?

One little teeny, whiny,
teeny-weeny little thing,

and I told Ira about it.

Okay.
What is that?

That was when I told you

I called the people
down the road.

I went to their house
'cause I told Ira

that I was still
protecting Bill,

but I'm gonna tell you
that's just the way it is,

and there's nothing else
in this case, Ira, that is...

There's nothing else,
nothing.

Thanks a lot.
We really appreciate you.Yeah, thank you.

You've... You've certainly given
us a lot to think about it.

I appreciate you talking
to us very much.

All right.
Well, you guys have a good day.

-You too.
-Okay.

Take care now, man.

-Mm, bye-bye.
-Be safe.

Well, what do you think?

You guys got to hear him.

He always tells the truth,
but he told a teeny-weeny lie.

Just a teeny weeny lie.

He could've said, "Listen,
I want to let Bill know,

see if he wants
to talk to you,

and then I'll give you
his information

-if he's okay with it."
-Yes, well...

-But he lied first!
-Yes.

His first instinct
was to lie.

My feeling after listening
to him, actually,

is I feel bad for the guy.

He sounds like somebody
desperately

trying to talk himself

into being the person

that he sees himself
as being.

And guess what?

That's exactly what
he wants you to think.

Yep.That's exactly what he want
everybody else to think.

Emmanuel,
what are you doing?

Nothing?

We'll...
We'll see you guys later.

All right,
Dad, be careful.

Okay.

I used to work from
6:00 in the morning

to 7:00, 8:00
in the afternoon.

And my day off, it was Sunday.

I go every week all the way
up there and see him.

He was so far from home
that I still don't want

for him to feel by himself.

All this time
that he's been in jail,

I always try to let him
know that I'm here,

and the only reason I haven't
moved from Sunnyside

is because I don't want for him
to feel like I'm leaving him.

He called me,

and he told me
that it was too hard for him.

He's gonna kill himself.

So... So I told him,

"Hey...

you got to be strong.

I don't...

Motherfucker, you got
into this fucking shit,

and now you... you telling me...

I know what you're going
through, but I'm with you.

I'm here for you."

You have a prepaid call.
This call is from...

Junior.

It's Evaristo?

-Yes, it's me.
-This is Investigator Todd.

How you doing, man?
-Yeah, yeah, it's good.

It's good to talk to you again.
It's been a while.

Yeah, good talking to you,
too.

And how are you
holding up emotionally?

It's a... It's...
It's a rough ride, you know?

You know, I think too much,

and... and... and it can be
a struggle in those areas,

but, um, when it gets rough,
usually I'll head out

and maybe jog a few miles
or... or... or work out or...

That's pretty much been, uh...
been the routine

for the past few
months now, so...

Well, we're gonna raise
your expectations again here

because Ira has done

some really amazing work

and has gotten some
pretty spectacular results.

We had Bill,
who testified against you,

well, we... we talked with him,
and he recanted.

Jim Rivard, the detective
that, uh, arrested you,

may have
instructed him to lie.

Oh, my God.
I'm...

It... It's a shock
because it... it...

What's going through
my mind right now is that,

w-why would you do that
to a 15-year-old kid?

I mean, why... why would you
deliberately do that?

I don't think he thought
you were gonna go to prison.

I think he thought that the case
was gonna be weak enough

that you probably wouldn't
have got convicted.

I think he was gonna try
to teach you a lesson.

I just... I've just been...
I-I've just...

All this... All this time,
I knew it, and when I was...

All these years in the cell

when I would write those
letters asking for help,

you know, I just...
I knew I would...

I would get to this point.
I just didn't know how.

You know, I just didn't know
how long it would take.

And there was moments...

there was moments where...

where I was in despair.

I'm talking broken as a man,

sitting in a cell crying,

begging God for help and...
and just not knowing

or seeing any clear path
that freedom would come.

When I think of...

It's gonna hit me
once I get off the phone,

but I'm...
I'm already in tears right now.

Do you have any other questions
for... for us before we leave?

Did you guys talk to, uh,
Jose Arreola's family?

Yes, we did.

You know, i-it was...

it was a little bittersweet,
you know.

I think the brother kind of
believed that you did it,

but, you know, they're
holding up pretty well.

I just have thought
about them, you know,

because I...
it wasn't just me

that was railroaded
when it came to justice.

It was also them too,
you know.

A wrongful conviction is also
a wrongful acquittal,

and that family didn't get
justice either, you know.

Well... Well, look, man,
we are concluding

this part of the process,

but...
but you're just about to begin

another part
of this process.

Oh, man, that's a...
That's great.

That's... I've been waiting
to hear that

for...
for 21 years, you know.

I've been waiting to hear that.

Anything else we can do
for you this afternoon?

Um...

You guys have done it.

Yeah, you guys...
you guys have done...

Shoot, I-I mean, you guys
have basically, um,

given me what I've been
asking for for 21 years,

so, uh, I'm indebted
to you guys, so...

No, you gave it to yourself.
You stayed persistent.

-You wrote that letter.
-Yeah.

-So...
-I did. I did.

And it was a dark moment,
but I wrote that letter.

I'm gonna run around
this little yard

and celebrate by myself,

you know, maybe tell a few...
a few friends.

-All right?
-All right, man.

All right.
Thank you so much.

-Thank you.
-You're welcome.

Very nice.

-Yeah.
-Very, very nice.

Just think of what
he was... was robbed of,

and for me to...
to be able to hear him,

it's a humbling experience.

When we started this case,
it was... it was a cold case,

a defendant who had been
in prison

for a very long time.

There were places to go, leads,
uh, that could be followed,

that never were followed.

Those leads were followed,
and at this point,

I-I think we're on the cusp
of at least getting Evaristo

a hearing on a motion
for a new trial.

So, good news
for Evaristo Salas...

There's an attorney
willing to take on his case.

Her name is
Laura Shaver.

She's in private practice doing
criminal defense in Seattle,

and she's originally
from Yakima.

-Hi!
-Hello, hello!

-Hi, Laura!
-How are you?

-How we doing?
-Good. How are you guys?

We're curious.

What's your strategy
going forward?

Bill is
sort of a new person.

You know, he seemed fairly
incredible when he testified.

According to, uh,
Ira and... and Joe,

uh, he's a very different
person now.

Uh, it's 20 years later.
He says he's clean.

He's sober.
He has a life.

I think he's a much more
persuasive witness now,

in the flesh, uh,
than he was 20 years ago,

and I think the person who
really persuaded the jury was,

of course, Ofelia,
and we can't get to Ofelia.

She, uh, won't speak

to anybody here.

And I think that... that,
ultimately,

she's going to be crucial

because if she sticks
to her identification,

uh, it's gonna be a lot harder
to get this overturned.

If she allows, on the other
hand, that, you know,

maybe she's not as sure
as she seemed to be,

you know,
that will be different.

Uh, the only other thing
that I want to flag for you

was the team here

put together a really cool

laser-bullet
path trajectory sh-show,

which is
incredibly impressive.

And the conclusion of
the forensic criminologist

that, at least in theory,

Evaristo could have shot
Jose had he been shooting down,

yeah, that's possible
if this was a specific...

a gang-specific signature way
of shooting that...

Right.
I mean, it could've been done.

Well,
that sounds interesting.

But in terms of the way
almost everybody kills

the people they kill,

uh, I don't think
it could've happened

the way the state
said it did.

You can try that,
but it does...

It's great with atmospherics.

It makes any reasonable
person go, "Huh."

-Yeah.
-I don't know.

So the most important,
crucial first step

is to get the hearing ordered.

Likewise.

-Thank you.
-Bye.

-Bye. -Bye. -Bye.