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Downloaded from
YTS.MX
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00:00:07,182 --> 00:00:10,250
It was on my way
to college.
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00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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00:00:11,166 --> 00:00:13,157
My dad told me the whole story.
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00:00:15,068 --> 00:00:19,171
He took the 4 1/2 hour drive
to tell me, "I was a KGB spy.
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00:00:21,005 --> 00:00:22,697
"I was sent here to get closer
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"to some important
people in politics
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00:00:25,944 --> 00:00:28,374
"and steal some information."
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00:00:29,330 --> 00:00:31,739
He told me, "I have
another family in Germany
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00:00:31,837 --> 00:00:36,818
"and I was supposed to go back,
but I stayed here for you."
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00:00:38,929 --> 00:00:41,240
My whole life was not
what I thought it was.
12
00:00:44,625 --> 00:00:47,353
My dad is a criminal,
that is a fact,
13
00:00:47,454 --> 00:00:51,078
and my dad has hurt a lot of
people, that's another fact.
14
00:00:55,221 --> 00:00:58,288
Finding out my dad was a spy
turned my life upside down.
15
00:00:59,643 --> 00:01:01,654
I've struggled
with relationships
16
00:01:01,753 --> 00:01:04,044
and it's made me doubt
my whole upbringing
17
00:01:04,144 --> 00:01:06,215
and who I really am as a person.
18
00:01:08,127 --> 00:01:11,572
I still have so many
questions and I really wonder
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00:01:11,672 --> 00:01:13,564
are there other children
of spies out there
20
00:01:13,664 --> 00:01:15,655
who feel like I do.
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00:01:16,691 --> 00:01:18,742
The two sons
of the accused spy couple
22
00:01:18,842 --> 00:01:22,168
in Cambridge, Massachusetts
in the custody of US Marshals.
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00:01:22,268 --> 00:01:23,562
Two of
the spies live here
24
00:01:23,662 --> 00:01:25,654
with their two young daughters.
25
00:01:26,769 --> 00:01:29,497
Just seemed
like a nice quiet family.
26
00:01:29,597 --> 00:01:31,528
I would have been
discombobulated
27
00:01:31,628 --> 00:01:33,798
if I found my
parents were spies.
28
00:01:33,899 --> 00:01:36,587
People think that
spies are like James Bond
29
00:01:36,687 --> 00:01:38,459
and it is absolutely
nothing like that.
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00:01:38,559 --> 00:01:39,973
The day was one of mourning
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00:01:40,073 --> 00:01:42,363
for this teenage boy
whose parents were sent
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00:01:42,463 --> 00:01:45,172
to Russia last night
as he was left behind.
33
00:01:46,526 --> 00:01:49,173
There are children
of spies out there
34
00:01:49,274 --> 00:01:52,381
and they've really gone
through some traumatic things.
35
00:01:54,891 --> 00:01:58,556
I know this because
my dad was a KGB spy.
36
00:02:01,185 --> 00:02:04,192
My dad is from East Germany
or former East Germany
37
00:02:04,292 --> 00:02:06,801
and he was recruited by
Russian intelligence.
38
00:02:08,274 --> 00:02:10,923
His real name was
Albrecht Dittrich.
39
00:02:11,023 --> 00:02:14,388
He came to America in his 30s
under the name Jack Barsky.
40
00:02:14,488 --> 00:02:16,141
The Russians had
stolen the identity
41
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:17,536
of a deceased American child
42
00:02:17,636 --> 00:02:19,964
and gave the identity to my dad.
43
00:02:20,065 --> 00:02:22,196
He worked at MetLife
as an executive
44
00:02:22,296 --> 00:02:24,188
and he stole American
information technology
45
00:02:24,287 --> 00:02:26,279
for the KGB.
46
00:02:28,231 --> 00:02:31,676
My dad met my mother who is
an immigrant from Guyana.
47
00:02:31,775 --> 00:02:34,226
They got married and raised my
younger brother Jessie and I
48
00:02:34,326 --> 00:02:36,316
in a Pennsylvania suburb.
49
00:02:37,194 --> 00:02:40,540
When I see in the
current news about spies,
50
00:02:41,614 --> 00:02:43,786
I'm not really surprised.
51
00:02:43,886 --> 00:02:45,019
There are spies everywhere.
52
00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,012
But you don't really
hear the stories
53
00:02:47,112 --> 00:02:49,103
of the loved ones of spies.
54
00:02:49,501 --> 00:02:53,942
The fact that my father was
a spy tore my family apart
55
00:02:54,043 --> 00:02:55,734
and it completely
changed my worldview
56
00:02:55,834 --> 00:02:58,404
and everything I
knew about my life.
57
00:02:58,504 --> 00:03:00,197
It was always really
hard for me to figure out
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00:03:00,297 --> 00:03:04,459
who I really am because
I didn't have all
59
00:03:04,559 --> 00:03:08,084
of the information that I wanted
about my dad and his past.
60
00:03:08,784 --> 00:03:10,325
I have always wondered if
there were other people
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00:03:10,335 --> 00:03:12,387
out there like me.
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00:03:12,487 --> 00:03:16,052
As a child, I always felt like
there was something missing
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00:03:16,151 --> 00:03:18,422
and I couldn't put my
finger on what it was.
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00:03:20,334 --> 00:03:23,460
I noticed some weird
things growing up,
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00:03:23,561 --> 00:03:25,553
things that I questioned.
66
00:03:28,142 --> 00:03:30,811
We had a house next door when
we lived in Pennsylvania.
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00:03:32,204 --> 00:03:35,690
I never saw anyone come
in or out of the house.
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00:03:35,790 --> 00:03:37,561
The blinds were always shut.
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00:03:37,662 --> 00:03:40,191
The grass was always
perfectly cut.
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00:03:40,291 --> 00:03:41,823
There was a clothesline
out there as well
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00:03:41,924 --> 00:03:44,353
and I never saw any
clothes on the clothesline.
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00:03:45,627 --> 00:03:48,496
I just had a funny
feeling about that house,
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00:03:49,970 --> 00:03:52,121
a feeling that I
was being watched.
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00:03:55,109 --> 00:03:57,836
It wasn't until many years
later that I found out
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00:03:57,936 --> 00:04:00,725
that the FBI had bought that
little blue house next door.
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00:04:16,140 --> 00:04:18,946
It's been years since I've
been back to my childhood home
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00:04:19,047 --> 00:04:22,095
in Pennsylvania where the
FBI caught up with my dad.
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00:04:22,593 --> 00:04:24,587
My old house.
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00:04:28,170 --> 00:04:31,356
There's the house
that the FBI bought.
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00:04:34,184 --> 00:04:37,173
Joe Reilly is the FBI
agent that caught my dad.
81
00:04:39,204 --> 00:04:41,055
And it just so turns
out he's now one
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00:04:41,156 --> 00:04:42,689
of my dad's good friends.
83
00:04:42,789 --> 00:04:43,726
Hi, Chelsea,
how are you?
84
00:04:43,824 --> 00:04:44,521
How are you?
85
00:04:44,622 --> 00:04:46,154
It's been a while.
- It's been a few years.
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00:04:46,255 --> 00:04:48,824
As long as I've known
Joe, I've never sat down
87
00:04:48,923 --> 00:04:51,053
with him one on one to talk
to him about the investigation
88
00:04:51,154 --> 00:04:52,768
on my dad.
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00:04:52,867 --> 00:04:53,644
When you lived here,
90
00:04:53,745 --> 00:04:55,434
I remember the first time
I saw you.
91
00:04:55,534 --> 00:04:58,643
You were this high and
your dad was teaching you
92
00:04:58,744 --> 00:05:00,157
to play basketball in the,
93
00:05:00,258 --> 00:05:02,249
Yeah.
in the driveway.
94
00:05:03,484 --> 00:05:05,815
And it was amazing how much
95
00:05:05,912 --> 00:05:08,920
I could learn just
by watching you.
96
00:05:09,021 --> 00:05:12,306
I really could see
that your dad loved you
97
00:05:12,407 --> 00:05:14,218
and he was very attentive.
98
00:05:14,319 --> 00:05:17,127
How did you
guys find out about my dad?
99
00:05:17,225 --> 00:05:21,031
We found out through
a defector source,
100
00:05:21,129 --> 00:05:24,557
a man who worked for
the KGB in Moscow.
101
00:05:24,655 --> 00:05:28,818
We didn't know about him at
all until we got information,
102
00:05:28,919 --> 00:05:31,807
fragments of information
from the defector.
103
00:05:31,905 --> 00:05:34,076
We didn't know where
he was in the country,
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00:05:34,177 --> 00:05:36,168
but we narrowed it down to here.
105
00:05:39,993 --> 00:05:42,980
And when we realised
we found the right guy,
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00:05:44,095 --> 00:05:47,381
then it intensified and
we started surveillance.
107
00:05:53,057 --> 00:05:56,384
We would surveil from
the windows there.
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00:05:56,481 --> 00:05:59,251
You guys bought the house?
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00:05:59,350 --> 00:06:01,163
Yeah.
110
00:06:01,264 --> 00:06:04,010
We used the house
probably well over a year.
111
00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,509
Your dad used to come out
and jog down the road.
112
00:06:11,461 --> 00:06:13,451
We would surveil.
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00:06:14,486 --> 00:06:18,371
I could sit up in that area
because that was wide open.
114
00:06:18,470 --> 00:06:19,845
Yeah.
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00:06:19,946 --> 00:06:22,235
I was pretending
to be a birdwatcher
116
00:06:22,336 --> 00:06:25,222
and I had books on ornithology
and I had a telescope
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00:06:25,621 --> 00:06:29,525
and I just sat there when I
knew you guys would be outside.
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00:06:30,919 --> 00:06:33,489
When I found out that the
FBI was living next door
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00:06:33,588 --> 00:06:35,478
to our house in Pennsylvania,
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00:06:35,579 --> 00:06:37,034
I was completely
blown away by that
121
00:06:37,131 --> 00:06:39,126
'cause we never noticed it.
122
00:06:41,198 --> 00:06:44,641
I couldn't believe that they
went to such great lengths
123
00:06:44,741 --> 00:06:46,732
to keep eyes on my dad.
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00:06:47,830 --> 00:06:52,152
You were away one
weekend, your whole family.
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00:06:52,253 --> 00:06:54,741
We had our technical team go in
126
00:06:54,840 --> 00:06:56,993
and they put microphones
in the kitchen
127
00:06:58,624 --> 00:07:01,632
and in the family
room so we could hear
128
00:07:01,730 --> 00:07:03,464
your dad's conversations.
129
00:07:03,561 --> 00:07:05,773
What were you looking
for, like an admission?
130
00:07:05,874 --> 00:07:06,570
Yes.
131
00:07:06,671 --> 00:07:08,720
And we got that about, oh,
132
00:07:08,821 --> 00:07:11,210
just a few weeks after we
put the microphones in.
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00:07:12,484 --> 00:07:14,656
Your dad and your mother
had a conversation
134
00:07:14,757 --> 00:07:17,267
in the kitchen about his origin.
135
00:07:18,541 --> 00:07:20,791
Your mother was expressing
her disappointment
136
00:07:20,892 --> 00:07:23,003
in not knowing
who he really was.
137
00:07:24,277 --> 00:07:26,926
And that's when he
told her the truth?
138
00:07:27,027 --> 00:07:28,518
Yeah, he told her everything.
139
00:07:28,618 --> 00:07:31,585
He really didn't think he
was gonna get caught out here.
140
00:07:31,686 --> 00:07:32,661
No, he didn't.
141
00:07:32,762 --> 00:07:34,854
He had been here so long.
142
00:07:34,951 --> 00:07:36,643
In fact, when we arrested him,
143
00:07:36,744 --> 00:07:39,832
one of the first things
he said to us was,
144
00:07:39,933 --> 00:07:41,146
"What took you so long?"
145
00:07:51,881 --> 00:07:55,247
Our goal was to recruit him,
not to put him in prison,
146
00:07:55,347 --> 00:07:58,515
but to get him to work with us.
147
00:07:58,614 --> 00:08:01,741
It's really fascinating
to listen to the details
148
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:03,611
of the investigation of my dad,
149
00:08:03,712 --> 00:08:06,837
but there's an emotional side
of this that has never really
150
00:08:06,938 --> 00:08:08,930
been discussed in my family.
151
00:08:11,799 --> 00:08:15,582
And I want to know if there's
others out there like me.
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00:08:23,587 --> 00:08:25,579
Dad.
153
00:08:26,058 --> 00:08:28,866
Oh boy, it's been a while huh?
154
00:08:28,967 --> 00:08:30,420
Like two years?
155
00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,406
We've been living on
different parts of the country
156
00:08:33,504 --> 00:08:36,356
and haven't had time to
physically get together.
157
00:08:36,454 --> 00:08:39,262
So, I'm really looking forward
to sitting down with him
158
00:08:39,361 --> 00:08:40,417
and talking about the past
159
00:08:40,519 --> 00:08:42,289
and I have some
questions for him too.
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00:08:42,390 --> 00:08:44,680
It's been too long, but
you know, you're over there,
161
00:08:44,780 --> 00:08:46,991
I'm over there, then you
moved there, and I moved here,
162
00:08:47,089 --> 00:08:49,261
and you got that
adventurous gene.
163
00:08:49,361 --> 00:08:50,694
You don't mind leaving.
164
00:08:50,795 --> 00:08:52,646
A lot of people have
a problem leaving.
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00:08:52,747 --> 00:08:53,563
I never had it.
166
00:08:53,664 --> 00:08:56,869
I can pick up and go
tomorrow someplace.
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00:08:56,968 --> 00:09:01,289
If given an opportunity
to move to a new country,
168
00:09:01,391 --> 00:09:03,401
and I'm told, okay, you
have to leave everything
169
00:09:03,501 --> 00:09:05,353
and everyone behind,
you can never see them
170
00:09:05,453 --> 00:09:06,788
or talk to them
again, I would do it.
171
00:09:06,886 --> 00:09:08,222
And I wouldn't
feel bad about it.
172
00:09:08,321 --> 00:09:10,013
And that kinda scares
me a little bit.
173
00:09:10,115 --> 00:09:12,164
Because your attachments
174
00:09:12,266 --> 00:09:14,456
aren't strong enough
to keep you someplace.
175
00:09:15,331 --> 00:09:17,262
And I had the same thing going.
176
00:09:17,361 --> 00:09:19,055
I had some attachments,
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00:09:19,155 --> 00:09:22,103
but in the end, the
adventure was more important.
178
00:09:22,901 --> 00:09:24,891
It was, you know, just, I couldn't resist.
179
00:09:25,927 --> 00:09:28,097
So is that why
you became a spy?
180
00:09:28,199 --> 00:09:31,405
The KGB was the most
powerful single organisation
181
00:09:31,504 --> 00:09:33,317
on the planet and
they wanted me.
182
00:09:33,415 --> 00:09:37,338
Boy, that flatters
you doesn't it, right?
183
00:09:37,438 --> 00:09:41,164
It was powerful enough
to make me say goodbye
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00:09:41,262 --> 00:09:45,068
to everything and everybody
I knew, my entire past.
185
00:09:45,167 --> 00:09:47,376
I'm sure you could
do the same thing.
186
00:09:47,878 --> 00:09:49,868
I think it might be genetic.
187
00:09:50,665 --> 00:09:51,561
I'm 30 years old now
188
00:09:51,661 --> 00:09:55,824
and I don't feel
capable of having kids
189
00:09:55,923 --> 00:09:59,886
because I know with my ability
to disconnect emotionally
190
00:09:59,987 --> 00:10:01,798
even though I feel like I
have a lot of love to give
191
00:10:01,897 --> 00:10:03,891
and I feel like I
would be nurturing,
192
00:10:04,885 --> 00:10:08,609
it's not gonna be easy
for me to overcome that
193
00:10:08,709 --> 00:10:09,606
with my own family.
194
00:10:09,705 --> 00:10:12,853
And I feel so terrified
that I would repeat that.
195
00:10:16,038 --> 00:10:16,695
It's one of the things.
196
00:10:16,795 --> 00:10:18,131
You know, people who
are not as strong as you
197
00:10:18,229 --> 00:10:20,758
and me have a hard time dealing
with that kind of stuff.
198
00:10:20,861 --> 00:10:22,353
Sure, I mean, that's normal.
199
00:10:22,452 --> 00:10:23,708
We're not normal.
200
00:10:23,806 --> 00:10:25,261
No, we're not.
201
00:10:25,361 --> 00:10:27,353
I don't know what normal means.
202
00:10:28,747 --> 00:10:30,560
Yeah, that's nothing
to be proud of either.
203
00:10:30,658 --> 00:10:32,650
We just are who we are.
204
00:10:34,484 --> 00:10:39,362
My normal is I grew up
with a father who is ex-KGB.
205
00:10:39,463 --> 00:10:42,470
My normal is not knowing the
answers to all the questions
206
00:10:42,569 --> 00:10:45,735
that I've been trying to find
for my entire life up to now.
207
00:10:45,836 --> 00:10:48,326
That's my normal.
208
00:10:49,044 --> 00:10:52,012
I really wonder do other
families of former spies
209
00:10:52,110 --> 00:10:53,804
have to go through
the same thing.
210
00:10:53,903 --> 00:10:55,156
I may not have all the answers,
211
00:10:55,259 --> 00:10:58,165
but this just means I need
to ask more questions.
212
00:11:03,513 --> 00:11:05,244
I wanna talk to other
people who've gone through
213
00:11:05,344 --> 00:11:07,275
what I've gone through.
214
00:11:07,376 --> 00:11:09,546
Today, I'm gonna
meet Robert Korczak.
215
00:11:09,648 --> 00:11:11,638
His father was a spy as well.
216
00:11:22,392 --> 00:11:24,283
I read an article about
Boris and I found out
217
00:11:24,386 --> 00:11:25,998
his son Robert lives in Virginia
218
00:11:26,097 --> 00:11:28,030
and he was willing to
share his story with me.
219
00:11:28,129 --> 00:11:29,940
I wanna know how his father
220
00:11:30,042 --> 00:11:32,034
being a spy has
affected his life.
221
00:11:35,299 --> 00:11:40,037
Did you have any strange
feelings when you were young?
222
00:11:40,876 --> 00:11:42,251
Starting when?
223
00:11:42,350 --> 00:11:45,636
When my dad was
active with the KGB
224
00:11:45,736 --> 00:11:50,017
or when my dad was
exposed as a CIA plant?
225
00:11:50,114 --> 00:11:50,892
When did you find out?
226
00:11:50,994 --> 00:11:52,446
Seven, eight,
something like that.
227
00:11:52,546 --> 00:11:54,715
Okay, so
you found out young.
228
00:11:54,818 --> 00:11:56,511
How did you react?
229
00:11:56,611 --> 00:12:00,474
Well, I reacted by hiding in
the foot-well of my dad's car
230
00:12:00,573 --> 00:12:03,362
as we sped through the
streets of Copenhagen
231
00:12:05,313 --> 00:12:07,304
while in a car chase.
232
00:12:12,085 --> 00:12:13,140
That's how you found out?
233
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,890
That's when I found out
something wasn't right.
234
00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:17,044
Jesus.
235
00:12:17,144 --> 00:12:17,801
Yeah.
236
00:12:17,900 --> 00:12:20,910
That was my introduction
to hey, your dad's a spy.
237
00:12:21,008 --> 00:12:23,217
Did someone actually tell you?
238
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,311
My dad, eventually.
239
00:12:26,027 --> 00:12:28,298
It definitely became
clear after he was shot.
240
00:12:30,688 --> 00:12:32,679
We're in the fruit department.
241
00:12:37,179 --> 00:12:39,669
He reaches back and he
says, "Something bit me."
242
00:12:39,769 --> 00:12:42,659
And he has a little bit of
blood on his hand or something.
243
00:12:56,977 --> 00:13:00,940
We go home and I'm lying on
the floor watching cartoons
244
00:13:01,041 --> 00:13:04,188
and my dad starts losing
the ability to walk.
245
00:13:09,804 --> 00:13:11,916
He was fading in and
out of consciousness.
246
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:17,871
So, it passed eventually
like a kidney stone
247
00:13:17,969 --> 00:13:20,958
which he captured
in a coffee filter.
248
00:13:22,152 --> 00:13:23,407
It wasn't safe.
249
00:13:23,506 --> 00:13:25,618
I missed nine months
of school after that.
250
00:13:26,852 --> 00:13:29,919
My dad's friends were obviously
doing as much as they could.
251
00:13:30,955 --> 00:13:34,679
As for me, at 8
1/2, nine years old,
252
00:13:34,779 --> 00:13:37,765
I was the one carrying his
nine millimetre Beretta.
253
00:13:40,636 --> 00:13:42,628
I had strict orders.
254
00:13:44,378 --> 00:13:46,371
If somebody knocks at the door,
255
00:13:46,967 --> 00:13:50,612
tell them exactly
these words, I'm armed,
256
00:13:50,712 --> 00:13:52,085
I'm going to count to five
257
00:13:52,188 --> 00:13:54,277
and then I'm going
to start shooting.
258
00:14:02,407 --> 00:14:04,397
- And did you ever have to--
- No.
259
00:14:05,275 --> 00:14:05,971
Well, that's good.
260
00:14:06,070 --> 00:14:06,846
That is fantastic,
261
00:14:06,948 --> 00:14:10,510
'cause I still have some
marbles left because of that.
262
00:14:12,563 --> 00:14:14,378
I can't imagine.
263
00:14:14,477 --> 00:14:16,088
You ever feel paranoid?
264
00:14:16,188 --> 00:14:18,361
I have reoccurring nightmares.
265
00:14:18,458 --> 00:14:19,515
I have--
- Me too.
266
00:14:19,615 --> 00:14:23,337
My reoccurring
nightmare for decades now
267
00:14:23,438 --> 00:14:26,585
is that I'm being
chased and I have a gun.
268
00:14:28,737 --> 00:14:31,006
The gun always turns into a toy.
269
00:14:35,787 --> 00:14:38,179
I have the exact same one.
270
00:14:40,209 --> 00:14:42,198
I'm always being chased.
271
00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:45,147
I need to defend myself.
272
00:14:47,298 --> 00:14:49,289
But the gun won't work.
273
00:14:51,522 --> 00:14:53,334
Exactly.
274
00:14:53,434 --> 00:14:54,609
That's really interesting that
275
00:14:54,709 --> 00:14:58,192
we have the same kind
of recurring nightmare.
276
00:14:58,294 --> 00:15:03,390
Do you feel like, 'cause I
feel like I have some traits
277
00:15:04,265 --> 00:15:07,157
that would allow me
to do what my dad did.
278
00:15:07,256 --> 00:15:10,541
It scares me a little bit,
it's like I could absolutely
279
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,291
right now leave
everything behind
280
00:15:13,390 --> 00:15:16,157
and move to another country
and not feel bad about it.
281
00:15:16,256 --> 00:15:19,224
You've been keeping
people at an arm's length.
282
00:15:19,323 --> 00:15:20,022
Yes.
283
00:15:20,121 --> 00:15:25,022
We are outsiders because
there are no kids like us.
284
00:15:26,217 --> 00:15:28,208
We're always gonna be outsiders.
285
00:15:29,282 --> 00:15:31,535
This is why I wanted
to meet other people
286
00:15:31,633 --> 00:15:33,563
that share the same thing,
287
00:15:33,664 --> 00:15:36,073
'cause I thought I
was the only one.
288
00:15:36,176 --> 00:15:41,154
It is very difficult to
have nobody to relate to
289
00:15:41,948 --> 00:15:43,942
about this stuff.
290
00:15:44,698 --> 00:15:48,400
And that's the life
of a spy's kid.
291
00:15:54,577 --> 00:15:56,570
I wasn't expecting that.
292
00:15:57,085 --> 00:15:59,080
It's the truth.
293
00:16:00,112 --> 00:16:02,085
More similarities than I
thought there would be.
294
00:16:02,186 --> 00:16:03,519
- Me too.
- Really?
295
00:16:03,621 --> 00:16:05,231
I'm pretty surprised.
296
00:16:05,333 --> 00:16:08,298
I felt a lot less alone
after talking to Robert.
297
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,698
It was like looking in a
mirror and he understood me
298
00:16:14,256 --> 00:16:16,227
on a different level
than anybody else.
299
00:16:16,323 --> 00:16:18,217
Give me a hug.
300
00:16:18,317 --> 00:16:19,092
Hang in there.
301
00:16:19,195 --> 00:16:21,365
Really confirmed that there's
others out there like me
302
00:16:21,462 --> 00:16:22,919
and I don't have to feel alone
303
00:16:23,015 --> 00:16:25,011
in my conflict with my identity.
304
00:16:26,286 --> 00:16:28,933
I'm going to find
other children of spies
305
00:16:29,032 --> 00:16:31,025
and hear their stories.
306
00:16:36,324 --> 00:16:38,374
Today, I'm meeting with my mom.
307
00:16:38,474 --> 00:16:41,003
Since my conversation
with my dad the other day,
308
00:16:41,105 --> 00:16:43,634
I really just wanted
to talk to my mom.
309
00:16:43,733 --> 00:16:45,507
I've made it a point
to go visit her
310
00:16:45,605 --> 00:16:48,095
and try to maintain a
relationship with her.
311
00:16:48,191 --> 00:16:50,047
But it's always been difficult.
312
00:16:50,143 --> 00:16:52,137
How are you?
- I'm good.
313
00:16:52,576 --> 00:16:55,224
Got to talk to dad the
other day, got to go see him.
314
00:16:55,324 --> 00:16:55,980
Really?
315
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:57,574
It had been awhile
since I've seen him.
316
00:16:57,672 --> 00:16:59,086
And what did you ask him?
317
00:16:59,186 --> 00:17:00,243
We just had a
good conversation
318
00:17:00,343 --> 00:17:02,374
relating to his life as a spy.
319
00:17:03,132 --> 00:17:07,572
Did he tell you the
truth about things?
320
00:17:07,675 --> 00:17:08,530
Yeah.
321
00:17:08,629 --> 00:17:09,521
All right.
322
00:17:09,626 --> 00:17:11,617
Why, you don't think
he's telling the truth?
323
00:17:13,291 --> 00:17:15,280
Not all the time.
324
00:17:15,679 --> 00:17:17,492
My parents are divorced now.
325
00:17:17,591 --> 00:17:20,360
My mom has never really
forgiven my dad for being a spy
326
00:17:20,458 --> 00:17:22,947
and flipping her
life upside down.
327
00:17:23,050 --> 00:17:25,658
Different times,
different things happened
328
00:17:25,759 --> 00:17:27,013
that you didn't know.
329
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:28,525
Like what?
330
00:17:28,626 --> 00:17:30,795
When I got pregnant with you,
331
00:17:30,896 --> 00:17:35,297
he wasn't really interested
in having a family.
332
00:17:35,397 --> 00:17:37,966
So, I said, "If you're not
interested in having the baby,
333
00:17:38,067 --> 00:17:41,610
"I'll take my baby home
to my mom in Guyana."
334
00:17:42,647 --> 00:17:43,342
For how long?
335
00:17:43,445 --> 00:17:45,434
After my two weeks
vacation was up,
336
00:17:46,429 --> 00:17:51,013
I brought you back and he came
to pick me up at the airport.
337
00:17:52,995 --> 00:17:57,637
And he says, "Why did
you bring the baby back?"
338
00:17:57,733 --> 00:17:58,946
- Really?
- Yes.
339
00:17:59,050 --> 00:18:01,021
Hmm.
340
00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:03,212
So, do you believe that or?
341
00:18:03,312 --> 00:18:04,565
I believe anything
you tell me.
342
00:18:04,666 --> 00:18:06,396
Okay, so that's
what he told me
343
00:18:06,496 --> 00:18:09,007
and your father
probably twist it.
344
00:18:09,965 --> 00:18:12,154
So you think
everyone's against you.
345
00:18:17,291 --> 00:18:18,907
My mother and I have always
346
00:18:19,004 --> 00:18:21,933
had a very strained
relationship.
347
00:18:22,033 --> 00:18:23,485
She really does
not like the fact
348
00:18:23,587 --> 00:18:25,954
that I have a good
relationship with my dad.
349
00:18:26,054 --> 00:18:29,021
Why didn't he ever say to
me in any kind of moments
350
00:18:29,121 --> 00:18:31,572
this is the situation, I really
need to tell you something.
351
00:18:31,675 --> 00:18:34,360
I have a wife in Germany,
I have two children there.
352
00:18:34,462 --> 00:18:36,550
He never said any of that.
353
00:18:36,650 --> 00:18:38,860
I think my mom is just
gonna hold onto that pain
354
00:18:38,962 --> 00:18:42,090
and suffering and she's
never gonna let it go.
355
00:18:42,187 --> 00:18:45,154
This is why I don't wanna
talk to you about this
356
00:18:45,258 --> 00:18:48,067
because your father like
to use his profession
357
00:18:48,166 --> 00:18:52,325
and his smarts and use
it on people around him.
358
00:18:52,425 --> 00:18:54,436
One thing I wish I
could get across to my mom
359
00:18:54,537 --> 00:18:56,907
is that I'm not choosing sides.
360
00:18:57,008 --> 00:18:59,479
And that I love her just
the same as I love my dad.
361
00:19:00,950 --> 00:19:04,296
And I just want her to
move on and be happy again.
362
00:19:11,916 --> 00:19:13,371
10 Russian
intelligence officers
363
00:19:13,469 --> 00:19:16,912
have been arrested allegedly
for spying on the US.
364
00:19:17,016 --> 00:19:20,382
In 2010, the FBI busted a
sleeper cell of Russian spies
365
00:19:20,479 --> 00:19:22,612
who were living in
the United States.
366
00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:24,641
They posed as ordinary Americans
367
00:19:24,740 --> 00:19:27,133
while secretly feeding
information over to Moscow.
368
00:19:27,929 --> 00:19:30,658
Some of them, like
Richard and Cynthia Murphy
369
00:19:30,758 --> 00:19:32,527
were married couples
who had children born
370
00:19:32,629 --> 00:19:34,283
in the United States.
371
00:19:34,383 --> 00:19:36,392
Some reports said that the
marriages were arranged
372
00:19:36,490 --> 00:19:38,740
by the Russian government
and that they had kids
373
00:19:38,844 --> 00:19:42,170
to help their cover as
regular American families.
374
00:19:42,267 --> 00:19:44,321
I can't imagine finding
out that your own birth
375
00:19:44,421 --> 00:19:46,412
was part of a spy operation.
376
00:19:47,487 --> 00:19:50,217
The US government deported
the 10 spies to Russia
377
00:19:50,316 --> 00:19:53,045
in exchange for Western
spies being held in Moscow.
378
00:19:53,142 --> 00:19:55,431
I watched all of this news
unfold just a few years
379
00:19:55,533 --> 00:19:58,103
after my dad told me that
he was a Russian spy.
380
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,071
So my first thought was,
what happened to the kids?
381
00:20:02,225 --> 00:20:03,516
The day was one of mourning
382
00:20:03,621 --> 00:20:05,229
for this teenage
boy whose parents
383
00:20:05,333 --> 00:20:06,903
were sent to Russia last night
384
00:20:07,007 --> 00:20:08,775
as he was left behind.
385
00:20:08,874 --> 00:20:11,525
Juan Lazaro Jr had no
idea his parents were spies
386
00:20:11,624 --> 00:20:12,921
and when they were
sent to Russia,
387
00:20:13,016 --> 00:20:14,554
he decided to stay in New York.
388
00:20:14,652 --> 00:20:16,104
I tried reaching out to Juan
389
00:20:16,208 --> 00:20:18,478
but he won't return
my calls or emails.
390
00:20:19,391 --> 00:20:21,565
The Murphys, two young
children, returned to Russia
391
00:20:21,662 --> 00:20:24,094
with their parents where
they were repatriated.
392
00:20:25,170 --> 00:20:27,379
Then there was Tim Foley
who returned to Russia
393
00:20:27,479 --> 00:20:29,528
with his parents and brother.
394
00:20:29,632 --> 00:20:32,200
Foley was actually
his mom's cover name.
395
00:20:32,296 --> 00:20:34,469
In 2010, he was given
a Russian passport
396
00:20:34,566 --> 00:20:36,421
with the name Timofei Vavilov,
397
00:20:36,519 --> 00:20:38,853
which was his mom's
real last name.
398
00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:41,278
And that really struck
me because 10 years ago
399
00:20:41,382 --> 00:20:44,066
I made the decision to change
my name from Chelsea Barsky
400
00:20:44,170 --> 00:20:46,142
to Chelsea Dittrich.
401
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:47,931
Dittrich was my
dad's real last name.
402
00:20:48,033 --> 00:20:50,324
Barsky was just a name
that the KGB stole
403
00:20:50,421 --> 00:20:51,400
and gave to my dad.
404
00:20:51,496 --> 00:20:54,702
Out of respect for the real
Jack Barsky and his family,
405
00:20:54,804 --> 00:20:58,008
I just didn't think it made
sense to hold onto the name.
406
00:20:58,112 --> 00:21:00,239
And you know, under
normal circumstances
407
00:21:00,341 --> 00:21:03,746
I would have been given
the Dittrich name.
408
00:21:03,845 --> 00:21:06,775
I was not in normal
circumstances obviously.
409
00:21:06,874 --> 00:21:10,937
So, I was given the false name.
410
00:21:12,969 --> 00:21:15,537
My dad's real name
is Albrecht Dittrich
411
00:21:15,635 --> 00:21:18,961
and even though he does
not use it legally,
412
00:21:19,065 --> 00:21:22,746
it was really important for
me to have that emotional tie
413
00:21:22,845 --> 00:21:24,836
to his real name.
414
00:21:29,679 --> 00:21:32,687
I'm going to see my dad today
at his house in Atlanta.
415
00:21:32,787 --> 00:21:35,996
Really just wanna know what
he really did as a spy.
416
00:21:36,094 --> 00:21:38,740
Why do you have this
stupid rock here?
417
00:21:38,844 --> 00:21:40,333
Why is the rock stupid?
418
00:21:40,432 --> 00:21:41,249
Let me tell you what that is.
419
00:21:41,353 --> 00:21:42,046
It's a rock.
420
00:21:42,150 --> 00:21:44,556
Well no, no, this
is a paperweight.
421
00:21:44,658 --> 00:21:47,104
That's sort of a
memory from the past
422
00:21:47,208 --> 00:21:49,556
that I actually made myself.
423
00:21:53,940 --> 00:21:58,621
That is a replica of a
container that I actually used
424
00:21:58,719 --> 00:22:02,545
for handing over
material to my handlers.
425
00:22:05,172 --> 00:22:08,161
It's called a container
for a dead drop operation.
426
00:22:11,902 --> 00:22:14,231
I've now sort of
come to terms with,
427
00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:16,164
okay, he was really a spy.
428
00:22:16,266 --> 00:22:18,737
But now I'm thinking,
okay, how did he do it?
429
00:22:19,891 --> 00:22:22,856
Now, I literally slid
into a different identity,
430
00:22:22,958 --> 00:22:26,007
you've got to believe
that you are that.
431
00:22:26,104 --> 00:22:28,716
So you have to
believe your lie.
432
00:22:28,816 --> 00:22:30,787
Yeah, absolutely.
433
00:22:30,883 --> 00:22:32,737
It's just weird
when you look back on it.
434
00:22:32,836 --> 00:22:34,969
You blended in so well.
435
00:22:35,066 --> 00:22:37,316
It was just something
I did on the side,
436
00:22:37,420 --> 00:22:39,028
like, you know some
people play golf
437
00:22:39,132 --> 00:22:43,729
and I did secret messages and
did surveillance detection.
438
00:22:43,833 --> 00:22:44,729
It's just the
funny thing is that
439
00:22:44,825 --> 00:22:47,258
it's just so like casual to you.
440
00:22:48,490 --> 00:22:49,708
It's very hard to
get my dad to have
441
00:22:49,806 --> 00:22:51,937
an emotional conversation
because my dad
442
00:22:52,037 --> 00:22:55,720
is just always in
an operative mode.
443
00:22:55,821 --> 00:22:58,670
Communication from the
centre that was Moscow
444
00:22:58,767 --> 00:23:01,237
to me was always through
shortwave radio.
445
00:23:03,191 --> 00:23:04,766
Oh, wait a minute.
446
00:23:04,862 --> 00:23:06,854
Can you hear it?
447
00:23:07,691 --> 00:23:08,586
Oh wow.
448
00:23:08,690 --> 00:23:10,856
Yeah, you can see that.
449
00:23:10,958 --> 00:23:13,106
And this is the
fine tuning here.
450
00:23:14,979 --> 00:23:16,970
It's gone.
451
00:23:17,412 --> 00:23:19,758
Yes, this is still
used today by the way.
452
00:23:20,679 --> 00:23:22,450
I tell you what I
would hear normally,
453
00:23:22,547 --> 00:23:23,525
it would go...
454
00:23:27,527 --> 00:23:29,103
And for like about a half hour.
455
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:30,016
Morse code?
456
00:23:30,115 --> 00:23:31,490
Morse code, exactly.
457
00:23:31,594 --> 00:23:34,479
So this is how you received
messages from your bosses.
458
00:23:34,577 --> 00:23:37,345
Right, it's the only
way, only shortwave.
459
00:23:37,449 --> 00:23:39,379
How did you send
them messages?
460
00:23:39,479 --> 00:23:42,487
Sometimes I had long
reports, so I wrote them
461
00:23:42,583 --> 00:23:44,575
and I photographed 'em.
462
00:23:47,167 --> 00:23:52,142
And then I handed the
undeveloped film in a container
463
00:23:52,504 --> 00:23:56,385
in what's called a drop
operation to a local agent.
464
00:23:56,487 --> 00:23:58,615
I gotta show you how to make
one of those containers.
465
00:23:58,719 --> 00:24:00,450
You'll be surprised.
466
00:24:00,548 --> 00:24:03,952
It's so cool to learn how my
dad actually did his spy job.
467
00:24:04,054 --> 00:24:07,816
It's so different than
it is in the movies.
468
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,286
So, what I have here is
the secret piece of material
469
00:24:11,383 --> 00:24:16,225
that I wanna hand in a drop
operation to a Soviet agent.
470
00:24:16,325 --> 00:24:17,298
And I wrap it.
471
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,129
So now I need to put
this into something
472
00:24:20,229 --> 00:24:22,219
where it looks totally innocent.
473
00:24:23,853 --> 00:24:25,746
This is the stuff you
used to make the drop?
474
00:24:25,844 --> 00:24:27,179
Yeah, sure.
475
00:24:27,277 --> 00:24:28,812
Did mom ever catch
you doing this?
476
00:24:28,912 --> 00:24:29,606
No.
477
00:24:29,708 --> 00:24:32,275
I did this in this one room
that I told your mother,
478
00:24:32,774 --> 00:24:34,550
"That's my room,
don't go in there."
479
00:24:34,649 --> 00:24:37,378
This does not require
a great deal of skill.
480
00:24:37,475 --> 00:24:39,466
You need a little bit more.
481
00:24:41,858 --> 00:24:44,070
And then we make a
dirty rock out of it.
482
00:24:44,167 --> 00:24:46,456
You know, the whole
idea is to use something
483
00:24:46,561 --> 00:24:48,811
that's so simple that
nobody could even think
484
00:24:48,908 --> 00:24:50,800
that it's something
special, you know?
485
00:24:50,899 --> 00:24:55,244
Okay, so when you go
and you put this rock
486
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,762
at your location, if you
recognise that somebody
487
00:24:59,860 --> 00:25:01,595
is following you,
were you trained
488
00:25:01,696 --> 00:25:04,302
on how to evade
somebody on foot?
489
00:25:04,403 --> 00:25:06,495
If I'm trying to do
an operation,
490
00:25:06,595 --> 00:25:08,005
I abort the operation.
491
00:25:08,108 --> 00:25:09,720
And I don't panic.
492
00:25:09,821 --> 00:25:12,947
Next thing is I go home and
see whether there was sign
493
00:25:13,050 --> 00:25:15,379
that somebody was
going through my stuff.
494
00:25:16,475 --> 00:25:18,447
And when there
was clear evidence
495
00:25:18,550 --> 00:25:21,274
that I was being investigated,
496
00:25:21,378 --> 00:25:24,204
I had a pretty
brilliant escape plan.
497
00:25:25,879 --> 00:25:30,916
I would load my bicycle into
the trunk of my hatchback
498
00:25:31,014 --> 00:25:35,120
and drive to a road
adjacent to a park.
499
00:25:36,157 --> 00:25:39,341
There was a bike path,
maybe a quarter mile.
500
00:25:41,370 --> 00:25:43,364
Go through that park.
501
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,711
Come out on the other side.
502
00:25:47,066 --> 00:25:49,036
There was a subway station.
503
00:25:49,134 --> 00:25:51,126
Dive into the
subway and I'm gone.
504
00:25:52,163 --> 00:25:54,432
Go to Canada via train.
505
00:25:56,786 --> 00:25:59,509
I also had escape documents.
506
00:25:59,614 --> 00:26:00,586
They were false documents.
507
00:26:00,690 --> 00:26:04,490
I had a Canadian passport
and driver's license.
508
00:26:04,594 --> 00:26:05,690
Do you think you
would have started
509
00:26:05,786 --> 00:26:07,440
over completely there and...
510
00:26:07,538 --> 00:26:10,427
No, I would have joined
my family and I don't know.
511
00:26:10,528 --> 00:26:12,855
Oh, you would have used
Canada to go back to Germany?
512
00:26:12,956 --> 00:26:14,949
Oh sure.
513
00:26:15,545 --> 00:26:17,478
So this is where
I'm coming to terms
514
00:26:17,576 --> 00:26:20,184
with this whole thing,
because that escape,
515
00:26:20,286 --> 00:26:23,552
if you had to use it and
you had to go to Canada,
516
00:26:25,346 --> 00:26:26,440
we wouldn't be here right now.
517
00:26:26,538 --> 00:26:28,614
Possibly you
wouldn't even be alive.
518
00:26:29,644 --> 00:26:30,624
Or,
519
00:26:30,721 --> 00:26:33,249
or we wouldn't know
each other, yeah sure.
520
00:26:33,353 --> 00:26:35,461
Wow, that's just crazy.
521
00:26:40,643 --> 00:26:42,951
Yeah, I didn't expect that.
522
00:26:44,384 --> 00:26:47,749
When my dad came to the US,
it wasn't really his goal
523
00:26:47,853 --> 00:26:49,345
to have a family here.
524
00:26:49,442 --> 00:26:51,295
Eventually, he
was gonna go back.
525
00:26:51,394 --> 00:26:53,210
I was torn, you know,
526
00:26:53,307 --> 00:26:55,355
I have a child here and
I have a family there.
527
00:26:55,460 --> 00:26:58,786
This was for my own
personal self-interest.
528
00:26:58,884 --> 00:27:02,509
I should have left
you and I didn't.
529
00:27:03,624 --> 00:27:05,478
If I go back, I'm a hero.
530
00:27:05,576 --> 00:27:07,067
The Russians
promised me a house.
531
00:27:07,170 --> 00:27:08,701
Everything would
have been great.
532
00:27:08,802 --> 00:27:13,780
If I stay, I have
possibly the FBI after me,
533
00:27:14,338 --> 00:27:16,331
the KGB after me,
534
00:27:16,931 --> 00:27:18,699
and ultimately you won.
535
00:27:18,798 --> 00:27:20,451
It was close, I
have to admit it,
536
00:27:20,556 --> 00:27:23,001
it was really
close, but you won.
537
00:27:23,103 --> 00:27:25,095
You and your mother.
538
00:27:27,045 --> 00:27:30,153
My dad's not perfect, but
when he decided to stay,
539
00:27:31,152 --> 00:27:32,763
he gave it 100%.
540
00:27:32,863 --> 00:27:36,549
He decided to really
stay and be my dad.
541
00:27:36,648 --> 00:27:40,714
And I think I just got very,
very lucky in that regard.
542
00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:48,328
I met Robert Korczak, who
is also the child of a spy,
543
00:27:48,425 --> 00:27:51,751
and I learned how deeply
his family was also affected
544
00:27:51,856 --> 00:27:54,106
by his father's past, but
I wanted to learn more.
545
00:27:54,203 --> 00:27:56,894
So I'm meeting with
Robert's mom, Barbara,
546
00:27:56,991 --> 00:27:59,482
who like my mom, was also
the wife of a spy.
547
00:27:59,578 --> 00:28:03,544
One thing I know about
Barbara, is that she and Boris
548
00:28:03,645 --> 00:28:06,809
are still married, and
they still live under
549
00:28:06,909 --> 00:28:09,357
the same roof so they have
kept their family together and
550
00:28:09,461 --> 00:28:13,585
I'm really interested in
knowing how she's been able
551
00:28:13,682 --> 00:28:15,451
to keep the family
together despite the things
552
00:28:15,556 --> 00:28:18,324
that they've gone
through as a family.
553
00:28:18,423 --> 00:28:20,595
Knowing what you knew
about your husband
554
00:28:20,690 --> 00:28:24,336
being a double agent, did
you ever confront him?
555
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:30,711
No, because his idea was
that working as a double agent,
556
00:28:30,808 --> 00:28:35,609
he is working his way
that we can go to the
557
00:28:35,711 --> 00:28:38,259
United States and
have better life.
558
00:28:40,609 --> 00:28:44,413
I always felt like we'd
be better, more peaceful,
559
00:28:44,516 --> 00:28:47,836
more quiet, if he had
just regular job
560
00:28:47,941 --> 00:28:49,932
like everybody else.
561
00:28:50,528 --> 00:28:52,740
Why did this happen to me?
562
00:28:52,836 --> 00:28:57,816
Why just me is exposed to
such a strange environment
563
00:28:58,451 --> 00:29:00,586
and strange situations.
564
00:29:00,683 --> 00:29:04,470
I didn't do anything wrong,
but it just happened.
565
00:29:09,884 --> 00:29:13,808
At the same time, I
felt proud of my husband
566
00:29:13,911 --> 00:29:18,308
because he was extraordinary.
567
00:29:18,411 --> 00:29:20,538
He was not like everybody else.
568
00:29:20,643 --> 00:29:23,846
But he was special, and
I like this about him.
569
00:29:23,949 --> 00:29:25,882
But, were you ever
angry with him?
570
00:29:25,978 --> 00:29:28,826
It seems like you were
sad that, you know,
571
00:29:28,926 --> 00:29:29,864
Why did this happen to me?
572
00:29:29,961 --> 00:29:32,132
My mom had the same reaction.
573
00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:34,403
I, I'm not angry with him.
574
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:38,326
Because he wanted the
best for the family.
575
00:29:39,403 --> 00:29:43,163
Emotionally, I was not
involved with his job
576
00:29:43,268 --> 00:29:45,257
so I was just a bystander.
577
00:29:47,905 --> 00:29:52,211
So my role as a wife
was support him.
578
00:29:56,432 --> 00:30:00,733
And I had to be strong to
keep this family together.
579
00:30:02,405 --> 00:30:07,463
And make them in a
loving environment.
580
00:30:09,021 --> 00:30:11,348
The reason I'm getting
really emotional right now
581
00:30:11,452 --> 00:30:14,475
is because your attitude is
totally different than my mom's.
582
00:30:15,432 --> 00:30:19,318
My mom is the complete
opposite of you
583
00:30:19,415 --> 00:30:21,749
in terms of how she took it.
584
00:30:21,845 --> 00:30:24,615
She was like "Why is
this happening to me?"
585
00:30:24,713 --> 00:30:27,280
"This was not my plan
for my life."
586
00:30:27,385 --> 00:30:31,107
She became angry and bitter
and she never let that go.
587
00:30:31,204 --> 00:30:35,129
It's just the pain
which she has inside
588
00:30:35,232 --> 00:30:37,720
is keeping her away.
589
00:30:37,819 --> 00:30:41,068
Tell her what bothers you.
590
00:30:41,165 --> 00:30:45,764
What is hurting you inside
and ask her the same question.
591
00:30:45,866 --> 00:30:49,991
What is hurting her and
how you two can make up
592
00:30:50,088 --> 00:30:52,954
to have mother-daughter
relationship.
593
00:30:54,153 --> 00:30:56,540
And see how it's going
to work this way.
594
00:30:58,530 --> 00:31:01,021
I really just admired
Barbara for her strength more
595
00:31:01,124 --> 00:31:04,232
than anything and especially
her choice in wanting
596
00:31:04,328 --> 00:31:06,299
to keep the family
together at all costs.
597
00:31:06,398 --> 00:31:11,955
When I talked to her, it really
opened my eyes to the pain
598
00:31:12,060 --> 00:31:14,610
that my mom was going through.
599
00:31:14,706 --> 00:31:18,152
Because of what my dad did,
this had affected my mom
600
00:31:18,257 --> 00:31:22,277
in a way that I just
couldn't understand.
601
00:31:26,181 --> 00:31:28,749
After meeting with Barbara,
and taking in her words
602
00:31:28,853 --> 00:31:31,575
of advice, I'm gonna see
if there is a possibility
603
00:31:31,681 --> 00:31:35,085
to get my mom to open up.
604
00:31:35,181 --> 00:31:36,673
I just wanted to give
you a quick call.
605
00:31:36,777 --> 00:31:41,978
I had this really interesting
meeting with another spouse
606
00:31:42,074 --> 00:31:43,768
of a former spy and...
607
00:31:43,864 --> 00:31:47,152
So what it
has to do with me?
608
00:31:47,249 --> 00:31:53,286
I thought about our talk,
and, and how you processed,
609
00:31:53,383 --> 00:31:58,364
dad being a spy, and how you
were pretty angry with him.
610
00:31:59,364 --> 00:32:02,806
And you're even angry with,
you know, me and Jesse, and--
611
00:32:02,903 --> 00:32:05,478
Everything you
say, it's like, that's your
612
00:32:05,575 --> 00:32:08,461
point of view of
what I'm angry about.
613
00:32:08,565 --> 00:32:10,815
It's not your
father being a spy.
614
00:32:10,912 --> 00:32:12,902
He was a damn liar.
615
00:32:13,422 --> 00:32:14,556
Boris Korczak's wife.
616
00:32:14,661 --> 00:32:17,065
She was in your exact position.
617
00:32:17,170 --> 00:32:18,537
She was in your shoes.
618
00:32:18,643 --> 00:32:21,768
She went through a lot
of, if not almost all
619
00:32:21,867 --> 00:32:23,440
of the same things
that you went through,
620
00:32:23,537 --> 00:32:24,595
based on what you told me.
621
00:32:24,699 --> 00:32:26,386
You don't
have a clue, really,
622
00:32:26,489 --> 00:32:28,220
what I've been through.
623
00:32:28,324 --> 00:32:30,853
He didn't want to
get married to me.
624
00:32:30,949 --> 00:32:31,963
He didn't want to have you.
625
00:32:32,066 --> 00:32:34,574
And then he had this
whole secret background.
626
00:32:35,528 --> 00:32:37,824
I just thought maybe you
would want to talk to me
627
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,614
a little bit about
this stuff, and--
628
00:32:39,710 --> 00:32:40,969
I don't want to
talk to you about anything
629
00:32:41,066 --> 00:32:44,316
because you have been
supporting your father.
630
00:32:44,412 --> 00:32:45,306
He's my father.
631
00:32:45,411 --> 00:32:46,162
And you want
me to tell my story?
632
00:32:46,248 --> 00:32:48,374
Right now I don't give
a about him
633
00:32:48,478 --> 00:32:50,210
and his spy
634
00:32:50,306 --> 00:32:53,199
He's just a big liar.
635
00:32:53,295 --> 00:32:55,383
He never told me he was
married, he never told me
636
00:32:55,489 --> 00:32:57,653
he had children, he just
went through the whole life
637
00:32:57,757 --> 00:33:00,961
with me there with this
big lie hanging behind him.
638
00:33:01,065 --> 00:33:04,190
I don't care anymore
about talking about him
639
00:33:04,287 --> 00:33:05,662
and his bull
640
00:33:05,761 --> 00:33:06,460
Okay?
641
00:33:06,557 --> 00:33:08,528
So I don't need to talk
to you about anything
642
00:33:08,632 --> 00:33:10,324
because you don't understand.
643
00:33:10,422 --> 00:33:12,432
That's just bringing
up a lot of painful,
644
00:33:12,536 --> 00:33:15,382
hurtful memories that I
don't want to talk about.
645
00:33:15,479 --> 00:33:19,085
Okay, Mom, all I
really wanted to do was
646
00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:22,114
share the conversation
that I had with Barbara
647
00:33:22,211 --> 00:33:24,065
with you, and if you're not--
648
00:33:24,170 --> 00:33:25,239
Yeah, but I don't
care about these people,
649
00:33:25,324 --> 00:33:26,220
I got my own story.
650
00:33:26,315 --> 00:33:27,374
Can I, can I finish?
651
00:33:27,470 --> 00:33:28,287
Can I please finish?
652
00:33:28,386 --> 00:33:30,045
If you are not ready
to talk about it,
653
00:33:30,143 --> 00:33:32,315
we can just try another time.
654
00:33:32,411 --> 00:33:33,941
I don't even
want to try anytime.
655
00:33:34,045 --> 00:33:35,297
How about that?
656
00:33:35,402 --> 00:33:37,411
Okay, Mom.
657
00:33:37,508 --> 00:33:38,682
Have a good night.
658
00:33:38,786 --> 00:33:40,777
Bye bye.
659
00:33:47,989 --> 00:33:49,161
I think after that phone call,
660
00:33:49,258 --> 00:33:51,989
I'm not going to try anymore.
661
00:33:52,088 --> 00:33:54,661
And I think she's made it
pretty clear to me that
662
00:33:54,758 --> 00:33:56,652
she's not ready to forgive.
663
00:33:56,749 --> 00:33:58,979
She's not ready to open up.
664
00:33:59,085 --> 00:34:01,374
She's not ready to move on.
665
00:34:01,470 --> 00:34:03,902
You can't help someone that
doesn't want to be helped.
666
00:34:04,777 --> 00:34:06,768
And she's just not ready.
667
00:34:11,069 --> 00:34:14,752
In a traditional family
dynamic, you may not
668
00:34:14,855 --> 00:34:16,587
have this kind of drama.
669
00:34:16,685 --> 00:34:20,252
But, this drama was brought
on because of the fact
670
00:34:20,352 --> 00:34:22,343
that my dad was a spy.
671
00:34:25,240 --> 00:34:28,168
My dad sent me an email
recently and not just to me.
672
00:34:28,267 --> 00:34:30,258
He sent it to the whole family.
673
00:34:31,052 --> 00:34:34,302
He actually opens up
the email with saying that,
674
00:34:34,401 --> 00:34:37,328
"Today, I got my second of
15 radiation treatments
675
00:34:37,427 --> 00:34:39,279
for prostate cancer.
676
00:34:39,377 --> 00:34:40,633
I really did not
want to mention it
677
00:34:40,735 --> 00:34:43,941
because it is all under control
and you should not worry."
678
00:34:44,038 --> 00:34:47,485
He ended the email by
saying, "Sorry for all the
679
00:34:47,587 --> 00:34:50,392
medical stuff, but like
an older model car,
680
00:34:50,493 --> 00:34:52,743
us veterans must spend a
bit more time in the shop.
681
00:34:52,843 --> 00:34:54,834
Love you all, Dad."
682
00:34:55,990 --> 00:34:58,936
I had no idea he had cancer
and I couldn't believe that
683
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,070
he would even announce
that in an email.
684
00:35:03,896 --> 00:35:05,887
So, what's up?
685
00:35:06,567 --> 00:35:08,558
I got your email.
686
00:35:11,866 --> 00:35:12,802
All right, so I'm sorry.
687
00:35:12,902 --> 00:35:15,549
I should have probably
told you earlier that
688
00:35:15,646 --> 00:35:16,665
something was going on.
689
00:35:16,762 --> 00:35:19,293
I was actually trying
to keep it a secret.
690
00:35:19,393 --> 00:35:22,280
I didn't respond
to the email
691
00:35:22,378 --> 00:35:25,485
because I was pissed that
you didn't tell me.
692
00:35:26,003 --> 00:35:28,375
You know, I didn't feel like
telling you because to me
693
00:35:28,477 --> 00:35:30,326
it's almost like a non-issue.
694
00:35:30,427 --> 00:35:31,360
I understand, cancer--
695
00:35:31,463 --> 00:35:33,155
How do you think
that's a non-issue?
696
00:35:33,253 --> 00:35:33,910
It's cancer.
697
00:35:34,012 --> 00:35:35,503
Yes, I'm taking
things too lightly.
698
00:35:35,607 --> 00:35:40,424
I have always
lived without fear.
699
00:35:41,418 --> 00:35:43,552
And I'm not afraid of this either.
700
00:35:43,652 --> 00:35:45,982
How can you operate
undercover for 10 years
701
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:48,369
and be afraid every day
that you might go to jail
702
00:35:48,473 --> 00:35:50,860
or that somebody might
do something bad to you?
703
00:35:52,375 --> 00:35:55,223
This fearlessness is the way
I'm wired, fundamentally,
704
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,727
and you operate like an
island, an emotional island.
705
00:35:58,829 --> 00:36:01,098
That's part of my baggage.
706
00:36:02,570 --> 00:36:04,919
It's just not a normal thing.
707
00:36:05,022 --> 00:36:07,928
To have no feelings and no fear.
708
00:36:09,919 --> 00:36:11,576
That's not normal.
709
00:36:11,674 --> 00:36:15,401
You know, this has developed
into a pattern, with you.
710
00:36:15,500 --> 00:36:18,785
You told me, on my way to
school, that, you know, you were a spy,
711
00:36:18,884 --> 00:36:23,084
and you just kind of dropped me
off and said, you know, "Okay, go on,
712
00:36:23,187 --> 00:36:25,178
about your day."
713
00:36:25,696 --> 00:36:27,468
I wasn't able to
focus because I spent
714
00:36:27,567 --> 00:36:29,696
so much time processing it.
715
00:36:29,799 --> 00:36:31,727
And it affected me.
716
00:36:31,830 --> 00:36:35,513
And, fast-forward to now,
you tell me after the fact
717
00:36:35,611 --> 00:36:39,495
that you have prostate
cancer again thinking that it
718
00:36:39,598 --> 00:36:41,651
was not going to affect
me, and it did affect me
719
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:45,312
and that's why I'm asking
you to, in the future,
720
00:36:45,410 --> 00:36:48,736
do better at telling me
before it becomes a thing
721
00:36:48,839 --> 00:36:50,852
that I will get
really upset about.
722
00:36:50,951 --> 00:36:55,830
All right, um, if-- if you
723
00:36:55,928 --> 00:36:57,861
want me to feel guilty,
724
00:36:57,959 --> 00:37:02,120
you just achieved that.
725
00:37:02,223 --> 00:37:03,558
My dad still doesn't get it.
726
00:37:03,656 --> 00:37:07,343
He can't seem to break this
spy mode and just be my dad.
727
00:37:07,442 --> 00:37:09,928
Everything is a mission
and a strategy with him.
728
00:37:10,031 --> 00:37:12,477
I just want him to see that
his actions have consequences
729
00:37:12,580 --> 00:37:14,687
for those who love him like me.
730
00:37:15,567 --> 00:37:16,584
I'll let you know.
731
00:37:16,683 --> 00:37:18,174
I'll keep you more informed.
732
00:37:18,276 --> 00:37:20,267
I promise.
733
00:37:27,111 --> 00:37:29,361
Today I'm going to
meet with Boria Sax,
734
00:37:29,459 --> 00:37:33,223
who's the son of Saville
Sax, who was a spy.
735
00:37:33,321 --> 00:37:34,419
Are you Boria?
736
00:37:34,517 --> 00:37:35,218
I sure am.
737
00:37:35,317 --> 00:37:36,651
I'm Chelsea,
its nice to meet you.
738
00:37:36,750 --> 00:37:38,741
Actually, I give hugs.
739
00:37:48,223 --> 00:37:49,834
How did you find out?
740
00:37:49,933 --> 00:37:53,218
I found out from a journalist.
741
00:37:53,321 --> 00:37:55,888
I was well into middle age.
742
00:37:55,986 --> 00:37:59,433
It was very hard for me to
talk about it to anybody.
743
00:37:59,535 --> 00:38:02,937
Eventually, the desire to know,
744
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,165
overcame all of my hesitations.
745
00:38:06,267 --> 00:38:10,250
Things from my childhood
started to make sense.
746
00:38:11,401 --> 00:38:14,968
When I was growing up, there
were all sorts of tensions
747
00:38:15,071 --> 00:38:16,723
in my home.
748
00:38:16,821 --> 00:38:21,861
People were following
my parents around.
749
00:38:21,959 --> 00:38:25,642
That's why this spy
thing is so distressing.
750
00:38:25,745 --> 00:38:30,044
It tells you that the world
isn't what you think it is.
751
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,084
When I found out that my
dad was a former KGB agent,
752
00:38:35,187 --> 00:38:36,995
I had a moment where I thought,
753
00:38:37,098 --> 00:38:40,125
is he who he presented
himself to me to be?
754
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,968
There's just so
much role playing.
755
00:38:44,067 --> 00:38:45,999
So many disguises.
756
00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:51,078
That finally you have
to dig very intensely
757
00:38:51,752 --> 00:38:55,240
to find the real human
being beyond all that.
758
00:38:55,341 --> 00:38:59,859
Were you ever able to
uncover that about your father?
759
00:38:59,962 --> 00:39:03,048
When I finally
found out about this,
760
00:39:03,145 --> 00:39:05,694
he had been dead for some time.
761
00:39:07,685 --> 00:39:11,810
What I saw in Boria Sax
was a sadness in his eyes
762
00:39:11,908 --> 00:39:13,883
that made me feel
really terrible for him
763
00:39:13,984 --> 00:39:17,984
because he has never been
able to have a conversation
764
00:39:18,087 --> 00:39:20,136
with his dad about it.
765
00:39:20,234 --> 00:39:23,359
And I'm able to get the answers
that I need out of my dad
766
00:39:23,462 --> 00:39:25,453
because my dad is still here.
767
00:39:26,651 --> 00:39:28,142
I just found out
my dad has cancer
768
00:39:28,243 --> 00:39:30,971
and I need to talk to him
while I still have the chance.
769
00:39:31,069 --> 00:39:33,502
He needs to know that
his spy life has hurt me.
770
00:39:41,386 --> 00:39:43,976
I'm trying to create an
environment with my dad
771
00:39:44,079 --> 00:39:46,927
where we can actually
talk to each other about
772
00:39:47,025 --> 00:39:49,793
some of the more difficult
topics that we've
773
00:39:49,891 --> 00:39:50,985
never been able to talk about.
774
00:39:51,088 --> 00:39:54,351
Particularly, that his actions
as a spy has affected me.
775
00:39:55,869 --> 00:40:00,848
The things that you
were doing as a spy.
776
00:40:01,204 --> 00:40:05,690
You might think that
this didn't have any
777
00:40:05,787 --> 00:40:09,693
affect on the family
like me or Jesse.
778
00:40:12,278 --> 00:40:15,166
You weren't directly
impacted because it wasn't
779
00:40:15,269 --> 00:40:19,351
like I was absent for
long periods of time.
780
00:40:19,452 --> 00:40:20,507
You remember I was always there.
781
00:40:20,604 --> 00:40:22,458
I was always supportive, right?
782
00:40:22,559 --> 00:40:26,083
The things that you did may
not have impacted me directly,
783
00:40:26,184 --> 00:40:31,101
but they certainly
impacted me psychologically
784
00:40:31,202 --> 00:40:33,251
and emotionally and
these are things
785
00:40:33,354 --> 00:40:35,345
that I'm only now realising.
786
00:40:38,412 --> 00:40:43,269
I can only say to everybody
who I hurt, I'm sorry.
787
00:40:45,818 --> 00:40:47,034
I can't, I can't.
788
00:40:47,135 --> 00:40:48,150
I didn't intend to.
789
00:40:48,251 --> 00:40:49,863
You know that.
790
00:40:49,961 --> 00:40:53,050
And it's one thing to analyse
and to figure out, you know,
791
00:40:53,150 --> 00:40:54,126
where that comes from.
792
00:40:54,226 --> 00:40:56,952
It's another thing
to live the life that
793
00:40:57,050 --> 00:41:02,034
you think you want to
live as a good person.
794
00:41:03,144 --> 00:41:05,141
And that's what
I'm trying to do.
795
00:41:06,653 --> 00:41:08,784
I'm very glad that I've
been able to tell him
796
00:41:08,885 --> 00:41:10,894
I'm feeling a certain
way and I'm glad he was
797
00:41:10,992 --> 00:41:12,251
willing to listen.
798
00:41:12,351 --> 00:41:17,327
And I feel a lot more comfortable
with myself knowing
799
00:41:18,046 --> 00:41:22,845
what I know now about my dad
and what his intentions were.
800
00:41:22,943 --> 00:41:25,992
So, Dad, this has been
really helpful for me
801
00:41:26,092 --> 00:41:31,068
to be able to tell you, you know, what
I think and how I feel.
802
00:41:31,909 --> 00:41:34,916
And this is a conversation
we've never had before.
803
00:41:35,016 --> 00:41:39,675
So, um, so thank you for
listening to me.
804
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:41,885
All right girl, baby.
805
00:41:41,983 --> 00:41:48,934
Even though, you know, you're so big,
you know, you're still my baby.
806
00:41:49,037 --> 00:41:49,653
All right.
807
00:41:50,351 --> 00:41:52,462
- Love you dad.
- I love you.
808
00:42:00,492 --> 00:42:02,820
I reached out to dozens
of children of spies,
809
00:42:02,918 --> 00:42:06,127
but the majority of them
declined to tell their stories.
810
00:42:06,921 --> 00:42:09,334
But, I've been able to
meet some amazing people
811
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:11,426
who I share a unique bond with.
812
00:42:12,537 --> 00:42:14,528
They've helped me
realise I'm not alone.
813
00:42:15,962 --> 00:42:18,653
No matter what country
a spy is working for,
814
00:42:18,752 --> 00:42:21,921
the lies, the danger,
the lost sense of identity
815
00:42:22,020 --> 00:42:24,845
are passed onto
us, their children.
816
00:42:26,479 --> 00:42:28,412
Some of us are separated
from our families
817
00:42:28,511 --> 00:42:30,203
or forced into
witness protection.
818
00:42:30,305 --> 00:42:32,993
Others go into hiding
to escape the scrutiny
819
00:42:33,093 --> 00:42:34,229
of their parents' actions.
820
00:42:34,328 --> 00:42:36,660
Espionage creates many victims.
821
00:42:36,758 --> 00:42:39,627
But the children of spies
are among the innocent.
822
00:42:41,497 --> 00:42:43,488
Are we able to help them?
823
00:42:44,328 --> 00:42:46,354
Can they ever come
out of the shadows?
59859
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