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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:07,182 --> 00:00:10,250 It was on my way to college. 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 4 00:00:11,166 --> 00:00:13,157 My dad told me the whole story. 5 00:00:15,068 --> 00:00:19,171 He took the 4 1/2 hour drive to tell me, "I was a KGB spy. 6 00:00:21,005 --> 00:00:22,697 "I was sent here to get closer 7 00:00:22,796 --> 00:00:25,028 "to some important people in politics 8 00:00:25,944 --> 00:00:28,374 "and steal some information." 9 00:00:29,330 --> 00:00:31,739 He told me, "I have another family in Germany 10 00:00:31,837 --> 00:00:36,818 "and I was supposed to go back, but I stayed here for you." 11 00:00:38,929 --> 00:00:41,240 My whole life was not what I thought it was. 12 00:00:44,625 --> 00:00:47,353 My dad is a criminal, that is a fact, 13 00:00:47,454 --> 00:00:51,078 and my dad has hurt a lot of people, that's another fact. 14 00:00:55,221 --> 00:00:58,288 Finding out my dad was a spy turned my life upside down. 15 00:00:59,643 --> 00:01:01,654 I've struggled with relationships 16 00:01:01,753 --> 00:01:04,044 and it's made me doubt my whole upbringing 17 00:01:04,144 --> 00:01:06,215 and who I really am as a person. 18 00:01:08,127 --> 00:01:11,572 I still have so many questions and I really wonder 19 00:01:11,672 --> 00:01:13,564 are there other children of spies out there 20 00:01:13,664 --> 00:01:15,655 who feel like I do. 21 00:01:16,691 --> 00:01:18,742 The two sons of the accused spy couple 22 00:01:18,842 --> 00:01:22,168 in Cambridge, Massachusetts in the custody of US Marshals. 23 00:01:22,268 --> 00:01:23,562 Two of the spies live here 24 00:01:23,662 --> 00:01:25,654 with their two young daughters. 25 00:01:26,769 --> 00:01:29,497 Just seemed like a nice quiet family. 26 00:01:29,597 --> 00:01:31,528 I would have been discombobulated 27 00:01:31,628 --> 00:01:33,798 if I found my parents were spies. 28 00:01:33,899 --> 00:01:36,587 People think that spies are like James Bond 29 00:01:36,687 --> 00:01:38,459 and it is absolutely nothing like that. 30 00:01:38,559 --> 00:01:39,973 The day was one of mourning 31 00:01:40,073 --> 00:01:42,363 for this teenage boy whose parents were sent 32 00:01:42,463 --> 00:01:45,172 to Russia last night as he was left behind. 33 00:01:46,526 --> 00:01:49,173 There are children of spies out there 34 00:01:49,274 --> 00:01:52,381 and they've really gone through some traumatic things. 35 00:01:54,891 --> 00:01:58,556 I know this because my dad was a KGB spy. 36 00:02:01,185 --> 00:02:04,192 My dad is from East Germany or former East Germany 37 00:02:04,292 --> 00:02:06,801 and he was recruited by Russian intelligence. 38 00:02:08,274 --> 00:02:10,923 His real name was Albrecht Dittrich. 39 00:02:11,023 --> 00:02:14,388 He came to America in his 30s under the name Jack Barsky. 40 00:02:14,488 --> 00:02:16,141 The Russians had stolen the identity 41 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:17,536 of a deceased American child 42 00:02:17,636 --> 00:02:19,964 and gave the identity to my dad. 43 00:02:20,065 --> 00:02:22,196 He worked at MetLife as an executive 44 00:02:22,296 --> 00:02:24,188 and he stole American information technology 45 00:02:24,287 --> 00:02:26,279 for the KGB. 46 00:02:28,231 --> 00:02:31,676 My dad met my mother who is an immigrant from Guyana. 47 00:02:31,775 --> 00:02:34,226 They got married and raised my younger brother Jessie and I 48 00:02:34,326 --> 00:02:36,316 in a Pennsylvania suburb. 49 00:02:37,194 --> 00:02:40,540 When I see in the current news about spies, 50 00:02:41,614 --> 00:02:43,786 I'm not really surprised. 51 00:02:43,886 --> 00:02:45,019 There are spies everywhere. 52 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,012 But you don't really hear the stories 53 00:02:47,112 --> 00:02:49,103 of the loved ones of spies. 54 00:02:49,501 --> 00:02:53,942 The fact that my father was a spy tore my family apart 55 00:02:54,043 --> 00:02:55,734 and it completely changed my worldview 56 00:02:55,834 --> 00:02:58,404 and everything I knew about my life. 57 00:02:58,504 --> 00:03:00,197 It was always really hard for me to figure out 58 00:03:00,297 --> 00:03:04,459 who I really am because I didn't have all 59 00:03:04,559 --> 00:03:08,084 of the information that I wanted about my dad and his past. 60 00:03:08,784 --> 00:03:10,325 I have always wondered if there were other people 61 00:03:10,335 --> 00:03:12,387 out there like me. 62 00:03:12,487 --> 00:03:16,052 As a child, I always felt like there was something missing 63 00:03:16,151 --> 00:03:18,422 and I couldn't put my finger on what it was. 64 00:03:20,334 --> 00:03:23,460 I noticed some weird things growing up, 65 00:03:23,561 --> 00:03:25,553 things that I questioned. 66 00:03:28,142 --> 00:03:30,811 We had a house next door when we lived in Pennsylvania. 67 00:03:32,204 --> 00:03:35,690 I never saw anyone come in or out of the house. 68 00:03:35,790 --> 00:03:37,561 The blinds were always shut. 69 00:03:37,662 --> 00:03:40,191 The grass was always perfectly cut. 70 00:03:40,291 --> 00:03:41,823 There was a clothesline out there as well 71 00:03:41,924 --> 00:03:44,353 and I never saw any clothes on the clothesline. 72 00:03:45,627 --> 00:03:48,496 I just had a funny feeling about that house, 73 00:03:49,970 --> 00:03:52,121 a feeling that I was being watched. 74 00:03:55,109 --> 00:03:57,836 It wasn't until many years later that I found out 75 00:03:57,936 --> 00:04:00,725 that the FBI had bought that little blue house next door. 76 00:04:16,140 --> 00:04:18,946 It's been years since I've been back to my childhood home 77 00:04:19,047 --> 00:04:22,095 in Pennsylvania where the FBI caught up with my dad. 78 00:04:22,593 --> 00:04:24,587 My old house. 79 00:04:28,170 --> 00:04:31,356 There's the house that the FBI bought. 80 00:04:34,184 --> 00:04:37,173 Joe Reilly is the FBI agent that caught my dad. 81 00:04:39,204 --> 00:04:41,055 And it just so turns out he's now one 82 00:04:41,156 --> 00:04:42,689 of my dad's good friends. 83 00:04:42,789 --> 00:04:43,726 Hi, Chelsea, how are you? 84 00:04:43,824 --> 00:04:44,521 How are you? 85 00:04:44,622 --> 00:04:46,154 It's been a while. - It's been a few years. 86 00:04:46,255 --> 00:04:48,824 As long as I've known Joe, I've never sat down 87 00:04:48,923 --> 00:04:51,053 with him one on one to talk to him about the investigation 88 00:04:51,154 --> 00:04:52,768 on my dad. 89 00:04:52,867 --> 00:04:53,644 When you lived here, 90 00:04:53,745 --> 00:04:55,434 I remember the first time I saw you. 91 00:04:55,534 --> 00:04:58,643 You were this high and your dad was teaching you 92 00:04:58,744 --> 00:05:00,157 to play basketball in the, 93 00:05:00,258 --> 00:05:02,249 Yeah. in the driveway. 94 00:05:03,484 --> 00:05:05,815 And it was amazing how much 95 00:05:05,912 --> 00:05:08,920 I could learn just by watching you. 96 00:05:09,021 --> 00:05:12,306 I really could see that your dad loved you 97 00:05:12,407 --> 00:05:14,218 and he was very attentive. 98 00:05:14,319 --> 00:05:17,127 How did you guys find out about my dad? 99 00:05:17,225 --> 00:05:21,031 We found out through a defector source, 100 00:05:21,129 --> 00:05:24,557 a man who worked for the KGB in Moscow. 101 00:05:24,655 --> 00:05:28,818 We didn't know about him at all until we got information, 102 00:05:28,919 --> 00:05:31,807 fragments of information from the defector. 103 00:05:31,905 --> 00:05:34,076 We didn't know where he was in the country, 104 00:05:34,177 --> 00:05:36,168 but we narrowed it down to here. 105 00:05:39,993 --> 00:05:42,980 And when we realised we found the right guy, 106 00:05:44,095 --> 00:05:47,381 then it intensified and we started surveillance. 107 00:05:53,057 --> 00:05:56,384 We would surveil from the windows there. 108 00:05:56,481 --> 00:05:59,251 You guys bought the house? 109 00:05:59,350 --> 00:06:01,163 Yeah. 110 00:06:01,264 --> 00:06:04,010 We used the house probably well over a year. 111 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,509 Your dad used to come out and jog down the road. 112 00:06:11,461 --> 00:06:13,451 We would surveil. 113 00:06:14,486 --> 00:06:18,371 I could sit up in that area because that was wide open. 114 00:06:18,470 --> 00:06:19,845 Yeah. 115 00:06:19,946 --> 00:06:22,235 I was pretending to be a birdwatcher 116 00:06:22,336 --> 00:06:25,222 and I had books on ornithology and I had a telescope 117 00:06:25,621 --> 00:06:29,525 and I just sat there when I knew you guys would be outside. 118 00:06:30,919 --> 00:06:33,489 When I found out that the FBI was living next door 119 00:06:33,588 --> 00:06:35,478 to our house in Pennsylvania, 120 00:06:35,579 --> 00:06:37,034 I was completely blown away by that 121 00:06:37,131 --> 00:06:39,126 'cause we never noticed it. 122 00:06:41,198 --> 00:06:44,641 I couldn't believe that they went to such great lengths 123 00:06:44,741 --> 00:06:46,732 to keep eyes on my dad. 124 00:06:47,830 --> 00:06:52,152 You were away one weekend, your whole family. 125 00:06:52,253 --> 00:06:54,741 We had our technical team go in 126 00:06:54,840 --> 00:06:56,993 and they put microphones in the kitchen 127 00:06:58,624 --> 00:07:01,632 and in the family room so we could hear 128 00:07:01,730 --> 00:07:03,464 your dad's conversations. 129 00:07:03,561 --> 00:07:05,773 What were you looking for, like an admission? 130 00:07:05,874 --> 00:07:06,570 Yes. 131 00:07:06,671 --> 00:07:08,720 And we got that about, oh, 132 00:07:08,821 --> 00:07:11,210 just a few weeks after we put the microphones in. 133 00:07:12,484 --> 00:07:14,656 Your dad and your mother had a conversation 134 00:07:14,757 --> 00:07:17,267 in the kitchen about his origin. 135 00:07:18,541 --> 00:07:20,791 Your mother was expressing her disappointment 136 00:07:20,892 --> 00:07:23,003 in not knowing who he really was. 137 00:07:24,277 --> 00:07:26,926 And that's when he told her the truth? 138 00:07:27,027 --> 00:07:28,518 Yeah, he told her everything. 139 00:07:28,618 --> 00:07:31,585 He really didn't think he was gonna get caught out here. 140 00:07:31,686 --> 00:07:32,661 No, he didn't. 141 00:07:32,762 --> 00:07:34,854 He had been here so long. 142 00:07:34,951 --> 00:07:36,643 In fact, when we arrested him, 143 00:07:36,744 --> 00:07:39,832 one of the first things he said to us was, 144 00:07:39,933 --> 00:07:41,146 "What took you so long?" 145 00:07:51,881 --> 00:07:55,247 Our goal was to recruit him, not to put him in prison, 146 00:07:55,347 --> 00:07:58,515 but to get him to work with us. 147 00:07:58,614 --> 00:08:01,741 It's really fascinating to listen to the details 148 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:03,611 of the investigation of my dad, 149 00:08:03,712 --> 00:08:06,837 but there's an emotional side of this that has never really 150 00:08:06,938 --> 00:08:08,930 been discussed in my family. 151 00:08:11,799 --> 00:08:15,582 And I want to know if there's others out there like me. 152 00:08:23,587 --> 00:08:25,579 Dad. 153 00:08:26,058 --> 00:08:28,866 Oh boy, it's been a while huh? 154 00:08:28,967 --> 00:08:30,420 Like two years? 155 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,406 We've been living on different parts of the country 156 00:08:33,504 --> 00:08:36,356 and haven't had time to physically get together. 157 00:08:36,454 --> 00:08:39,262 So, I'm really looking forward to sitting down with him 158 00:08:39,361 --> 00:08:40,417 and talking about the past 159 00:08:40,519 --> 00:08:42,289 and I have some questions for him too. 160 00:08:42,390 --> 00:08:44,680 It's been too long, but you know, you're over there, 161 00:08:44,780 --> 00:08:46,991 I'm over there, then you moved there, and I moved here, 162 00:08:47,089 --> 00:08:49,261 and you got that adventurous gene. 163 00:08:49,361 --> 00:08:50,694 You don't mind leaving. 164 00:08:50,795 --> 00:08:52,646 A lot of people have a problem leaving. 165 00:08:52,747 --> 00:08:53,563 I never had it. 166 00:08:53,664 --> 00:08:56,869 I can pick up and go tomorrow someplace. 167 00:08:56,968 --> 00:09:01,289 If given an opportunity to move to a new country, 168 00:09:01,391 --> 00:09:03,401 and I'm told, okay, you have to leave everything 169 00:09:03,501 --> 00:09:05,353 and everyone behind, you can never see them 170 00:09:05,453 --> 00:09:06,788 or talk to them again, I would do it. 171 00:09:06,886 --> 00:09:08,222 And I wouldn't feel bad about it. 172 00:09:08,321 --> 00:09:10,013 And that kinda scares me a little bit. 173 00:09:10,115 --> 00:09:12,164 Because your attachments 174 00:09:12,266 --> 00:09:14,456 aren't strong enough to keep you someplace. 175 00:09:15,331 --> 00:09:17,262 And I had the same thing going. 176 00:09:17,361 --> 00:09:19,055 I had some attachments, 177 00:09:19,155 --> 00:09:22,103 but in the end, the adventure was more important. 178 00:09:22,901 --> 00:09:24,891 It was, you know, just, I couldn't resist. 179 00:09:25,927 --> 00:09:28,097 So is that why you became a spy? 180 00:09:28,199 --> 00:09:31,405 The KGB was the most powerful single organisation 181 00:09:31,504 --> 00:09:33,317 on the planet and they wanted me. 182 00:09:33,415 --> 00:09:37,338 Boy, that flatters you doesn't it, right? 183 00:09:37,438 --> 00:09:41,164 It was powerful enough to make me say goodbye 184 00:09:41,262 --> 00:09:45,068 to everything and everybody I knew, my entire past. 185 00:09:45,167 --> 00:09:47,376 I'm sure you could do the same thing. 186 00:09:47,878 --> 00:09:49,868 I think it might be genetic. 187 00:09:50,665 --> 00:09:51,561 I'm 30 years old now 188 00:09:51,661 --> 00:09:55,824 and I don't feel capable of having kids 189 00:09:55,923 --> 00:09:59,886 because I know with my ability to disconnect emotionally 190 00:09:59,987 --> 00:10:01,798 even though I feel like I have a lot of love to give 191 00:10:01,897 --> 00:10:03,891 and I feel like I would be nurturing, 192 00:10:04,885 --> 00:10:08,609 it's not gonna be easy for me to overcome that 193 00:10:08,709 --> 00:10:09,606 with my own family. 194 00:10:09,705 --> 00:10:12,853 And I feel so terrified that I would repeat that. 195 00:10:16,038 --> 00:10:16,695 It's one of the things. 196 00:10:16,795 --> 00:10:18,131 You know, people who are not as strong as you 197 00:10:18,229 --> 00:10:20,758 and me have a hard time dealing with that kind of stuff. 198 00:10:20,861 --> 00:10:22,353 Sure, I mean, that's normal. 199 00:10:22,452 --> 00:10:23,708 We're not normal. 200 00:10:23,806 --> 00:10:25,261 No, we're not. 201 00:10:25,361 --> 00:10:27,353 I don't know what normal means. 202 00:10:28,747 --> 00:10:30,560 Yeah, that's nothing to be proud of either. 203 00:10:30,658 --> 00:10:32,650 We just are who we are. 204 00:10:34,484 --> 00:10:39,362 My normal is I grew up with a father who is ex-KGB. 205 00:10:39,463 --> 00:10:42,470 My normal is not knowing the answers to all the questions 206 00:10:42,569 --> 00:10:45,735 that I've been trying to find for my entire life up to now. 207 00:10:45,836 --> 00:10:48,326 That's my normal. 208 00:10:49,044 --> 00:10:52,012 I really wonder do other families of former spies 209 00:10:52,110 --> 00:10:53,804 have to go through the same thing. 210 00:10:53,903 --> 00:10:55,156 I may not have all the answers, 211 00:10:55,259 --> 00:10:58,165 but this just means I need to ask more questions. 212 00:11:03,513 --> 00:11:05,244 I wanna talk to other people who've gone through 213 00:11:05,344 --> 00:11:07,275 what I've gone through. 214 00:11:07,376 --> 00:11:09,546 Today, I'm gonna meet Robert Korczak. 215 00:11:09,648 --> 00:11:11,638 His father was a spy as well. 216 00:11:22,392 --> 00:11:24,283 I read an article about Boris and I found out 217 00:11:24,386 --> 00:11:25,998 his son Robert lives in Virginia 218 00:11:26,097 --> 00:11:28,030 and he was willing to share his story with me. 219 00:11:28,129 --> 00:11:29,940 I wanna know how his father 220 00:11:30,042 --> 00:11:32,034 being a spy has affected his life. 221 00:11:35,299 --> 00:11:40,037 Did you have any strange feelings when you were young? 222 00:11:40,876 --> 00:11:42,251 Starting when? 223 00:11:42,350 --> 00:11:45,636 When my dad was active with the KGB 224 00:11:45,736 --> 00:11:50,017 or when my dad was exposed as a CIA plant? 225 00:11:50,114 --> 00:11:50,892 When did you find out? 226 00:11:50,994 --> 00:11:52,446 Seven, eight, something like that. 227 00:11:52,546 --> 00:11:54,715 Okay, so you found out young. 228 00:11:54,818 --> 00:11:56,511 How did you react? 229 00:11:56,611 --> 00:12:00,474 Well, I reacted by hiding in the foot-well of my dad's car 230 00:12:00,573 --> 00:12:03,362 as we sped through the streets of Copenhagen 231 00:12:05,313 --> 00:12:07,304 while in a car chase. 232 00:12:12,085 --> 00:12:13,140 That's how you found out? 233 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,890 That's when I found out something wasn't right. 234 00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:17,044 Jesus. 235 00:12:17,144 --> 00:12:17,801 Yeah. 236 00:12:17,900 --> 00:12:20,910 That was my introduction to hey, your dad's a spy. 237 00:12:21,008 --> 00:12:23,217 Did someone actually tell you? 238 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,311 My dad, eventually. 239 00:12:26,027 --> 00:12:28,298 It definitely became clear after he was shot. 240 00:12:30,688 --> 00:12:32,679 We're in the fruit department. 241 00:12:37,179 --> 00:12:39,669 He reaches back and he says, "Something bit me." 242 00:12:39,769 --> 00:12:42,659 And he has a little bit of blood on his hand or something. 243 00:12:56,977 --> 00:13:00,940 We go home and I'm lying on the floor watching cartoons 244 00:13:01,041 --> 00:13:04,188 and my dad starts losing the ability to walk. 245 00:13:09,804 --> 00:13:11,916 He was fading in and out of consciousness. 246 00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:17,871 So, it passed eventually like a kidney stone 247 00:13:17,969 --> 00:13:20,958 which he captured in a coffee filter. 248 00:13:22,152 --> 00:13:23,407 It wasn't safe. 249 00:13:23,506 --> 00:13:25,618 I missed nine months of school after that. 250 00:13:26,852 --> 00:13:29,919 My dad's friends were obviously doing as much as they could. 251 00:13:30,955 --> 00:13:34,679 As for me, at 8 1/2, nine years old, 252 00:13:34,779 --> 00:13:37,765 I was the one carrying his nine millimetre Beretta. 253 00:13:40,636 --> 00:13:42,628 I had strict orders. 254 00:13:44,378 --> 00:13:46,371 If somebody knocks at the door, 255 00:13:46,967 --> 00:13:50,612 tell them exactly these words, I'm armed, 256 00:13:50,712 --> 00:13:52,085 I'm going to count to five 257 00:13:52,188 --> 00:13:54,277 and then I'm going to start shooting. 258 00:14:02,407 --> 00:14:04,397 - And did you ever have to-- - No. 259 00:14:05,275 --> 00:14:05,971 Well, that's good. 260 00:14:06,070 --> 00:14:06,846 That is fantastic, 261 00:14:06,948 --> 00:14:10,510 'cause I still have some marbles left because of that. 262 00:14:12,563 --> 00:14:14,378 I can't imagine. 263 00:14:14,477 --> 00:14:16,088 You ever feel paranoid? 264 00:14:16,188 --> 00:14:18,361 I have reoccurring nightmares. 265 00:14:18,458 --> 00:14:19,515 I have-- - Me too. 266 00:14:19,615 --> 00:14:23,337 My reoccurring nightmare for decades now 267 00:14:23,438 --> 00:14:26,585 is that I'm being chased and I have a gun. 268 00:14:28,737 --> 00:14:31,006 The gun always turns into a toy. 269 00:14:35,787 --> 00:14:38,179 I have the exact same one. 270 00:14:40,209 --> 00:14:42,198 I'm always being chased. 271 00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:45,147 I need to defend myself. 272 00:14:47,298 --> 00:14:49,289 But the gun won't work. 273 00:14:51,522 --> 00:14:53,334 Exactly. 274 00:14:53,434 --> 00:14:54,609 That's really interesting that 275 00:14:54,709 --> 00:14:58,192 we have the same kind of recurring nightmare. 276 00:14:58,294 --> 00:15:03,390 Do you feel like, 'cause I feel like I have some traits 277 00:15:04,265 --> 00:15:07,157 that would allow me to do what my dad did. 278 00:15:07,256 --> 00:15:10,541 It scares me a little bit, it's like I could absolutely 279 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,291 right now leave everything behind 280 00:15:13,390 --> 00:15:16,157 and move to another country and not feel bad about it. 281 00:15:16,256 --> 00:15:19,224 You've been keeping people at an arm's length. 282 00:15:19,323 --> 00:15:20,022 Yes. 283 00:15:20,121 --> 00:15:25,022 We are outsiders because there are no kids like us. 284 00:15:26,217 --> 00:15:28,208 We're always gonna be outsiders. 285 00:15:29,282 --> 00:15:31,535 This is why I wanted to meet other people 286 00:15:31,633 --> 00:15:33,563 that share the same thing, 287 00:15:33,664 --> 00:15:36,073 'cause I thought I was the only one. 288 00:15:36,176 --> 00:15:41,154 It is very difficult to have nobody to relate to 289 00:15:41,948 --> 00:15:43,942 about this stuff. 290 00:15:44,698 --> 00:15:48,400 And that's the life of a spy's kid. 291 00:15:54,577 --> 00:15:56,570 I wasn't expecting that. 292 00:15:57,085 --> 00:15:59,080 It's the truth. 293 00:16:00,112 --> 00:16:02,085 More similarities than I thought there would be. 294 00:16:02,186 --> 00:16:03,519 - Me too. - Really? 295 00:16:03,621 --> 00:16:05,231 I'm pretty surprised. 296 00:16:05,333 --> 00:16:08,298 I felt a lot less alone after talking to Robert. 297 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,698 It was like looking in a mirror and he understood me 298 00:16:14,256 --> 00:16:16,227 on a different level than anybody else. 299 00:16:16,323 --> 00:16:18,217 Give me a hug. 300 00:16:18,317 --> 00:16:19,092 Hang in there. 301 00:16:19,195 --> 00:16:21,365 Really confirmed that there's others out there like me 302 00:16:21,462 --> 00:16:22,919 and I don't have to feel alone 303 00:16:23,015 --> 00:16:25,011 in my conflict with my identity. 304 00:16:26,286 --> 00:16:28,933 I'm going to find other children of spies 305 00:16:29,032 --> 00:16:31,025 and hear their stories. 306 00:16:36,324 --> 00:16:38,374 Today, I'm meeting with my mom. 307 00:16:38,474 --> 00:16:41,003 Since my conversation with my dad the other day, 308 00:16:41,105 --> 00:16:43,634 I really just wanted to talk to my mom. 309 00:16:43,733 --> 00:16:45,507 I've made it a point to go visit her 310 00:16:45,605 --> 00:16:48,095 and try to maintain a relationship with her. 311 00:16:48,191 --> 00:16:50,047 But it's always been difficult. 312 00:16:50,143 --> 00:16:52,137 How are you? - I'm good. 313 00:16:52,576 --> 00:16:55,224 Got to talk to dad the other day, got to go see him. 314 00:16:55,324 --> 00:16:55,980 Really? 315 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:57,574 It had been awhile since I've seen him. 316 00:16:57,672 --> 00:16:59,086 And what did you ask him? 317 00:16:59,186 --> 00:17:00,243 We just had a good conversation 318 00:17:00,343 --> 00:17:02,374 relating to his life as a spy. 319 00:17:03,132 --> 00:17:07,572 Did he tell you the truth about things? 320 00:17:07,675 --> 00:17:08,530 Yeah. 321 00:17:08,629 --> 00:17:09,521 All right. 322 00:17:09,626 --> 00:17:11,617 Why, you don't think he's telling the truth? 323 00:17:13,291 --> 00:17:15,280 Not all the time. 324 00:17:15,679 --> 00:17:17,492 My parents are divorced now. 325 00:17:17,591 --> 00:17:20,360 My mom has never really forgiven my dad for being a spy 326 00:17:20,458 --> 00:17:22,947 and flipping her life upside down. 327 00:17:23,050 --> 00:17:25,658 Different times, different things happened 328 00:17:25,759 --> 00:17:27,013 that you didn't know. 329 00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:28,525 Like what? 330 00:17:28,626 --> 00:17:30,795 When I got pregnant with you, 331 00:17:30,896 --> 00:17:35,297 he wasn't really interested in having a family. 332 00:17:35,397 --> 00:17:37,966 So, I said, "If you're not interested in having the baby, 333 00:17:38,067 --> 00:17:41,610 "I'll take my baby home to my mom in Guyana." 334 00:17:42,647 --> 00:17:43,342 For how long? 335 00:17:43,445 --> 00:17:45,434 After my two weeks vacation was up, 336 00:17:46,429 --> 00:17:51,013 I brought you back and he came to pick me up at the airport. 337 00:17:52,995 --> 00:17:57,637 And he says, "Why did you bring the baby back?" 338 00:17:57,733 --> 00:17:58,946 - Really? - Yes. 339 00:17:59,050 --> 00:18:01,021 Hmm. 340 00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:03,212 So, do you believe that or? 341 00:18:03,312 --> 00:18:04,565 I believe anything you tell me. 342 00:18:04,666 --> 00:18:06,396 Okay, so that's what he told me 343 00:18:06,496 --> 00:18:09,007 and your father probably twist it. 344 00:18:09,965 --> 00:18:12,154 So you think everyone's against you. 345 00:18:17,291 --> 00:18:18,907 My mother and I have always 346 00:18:19,004 --> 00:18:21,933 had a very strained relationship. 347 00:18:22,033 --> 00:18:23,485 She really does not like the fact 348 00:18:23,587 --> 00:18:25,954 that I have a good relationship with my dad. 349 00:18:26,054 --> 00:18:29,021 Why didn't he ever say to me in any kind of moments 350 00:18:29,121 --> 00:18:31,572 this is the situation, I really need to tell you something. 351 00:18:31,675 --> 00:18:34,360 I have a wife in Germany, I have two children there. 352 00:18:34,462 --> 00:18:36,550 He never said any of that. 353 00:18:36,650 --> 00:18:38,860 I think my mom is just gonna hold onto that pain 354 00:18:38,962 --> 00:18:42,090 and suffering and she's never gonna let it go. 355 00:18:42,187 --> 00:18:45,154 This is why I don't wanna talk to you about this 356 00:18:45,258 --> 00:18:48,067 because your father like to use his profession 357 00:18:48,166 --> 00:18:52,325 and his smarts and use it on people around him. 358 00:18:52,425 --> 00:18:54,436 One thing I wish I could get across to my mom 359 00:18:54,537 --> 00:18:56,907 is that I'm not choosing sides. 360 00:18:57,008 --> 00:18:59,479 And that I love her just the same as I love my dad. 361 00:19:00,950 --> 00:19:04,296 And I just want her to move on and be happy again. 362 00:19:11,916 --> 00:19:13,371 10 Russian intelligence officers 363 00:19:13,469 --> 00:19:16,912 have been arrested allegedly for spying on the US. 364 00:19:17,016 --> 00:19:20,382 In 2010, the FBI busted a sleeper cell of Russian spies 365 00:19:20,479 --> 00:19:22,612 who were living in the United States. 366 00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:24,641 They posed as ordinary Americans 367 00:19:24,740 --> 00:19:27,133 while secretly feeding information over to Moscow. 368 00:19:27,929 --> 00:19:30,658 Some of them, like Richard and Cynthia Murphy 369 00:19:30,758 --> 00:19:32,527 were married couples who had children born 370 00:19:32,629 --> 00:19:34,283 in the United States. 371 00:19:34,383 --> 00:19:36,392 Some reports said that the marriages were arranged 372 00:19:36,490 --> 00:19:38,740 by the Russian government and that they had kids 373 00:19:38,844 --> 00:19:42,170 to help their cover as regular American families. 374 00:19:42,267 --> 00:19:44,321 I can't imagine finding out that your own birth 375 00:19:44,421 --> 00:19:46,412 was part of a spy operation. 376 00:19:47,487 --> 00:19:50,217 The US government deported the 10 spies to Russia 377 00:19:50,316 --> 00:19:53,045 in exchange for Western spies being held in Moscow. 378 00:19:53,142 --> 00:19:55,431 I watched all of this news unfold just a few years 379 00:19:55,533 --> 00:19:58,103 after my dad told me that he was a Russian spy. 380 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,071 So my first thought was, what happened to the kids? 381 00:20:02,225 --> 00:20:03,516 The day was one of mourning 382 00:20:03,621 --> 00:20:05,229 for this teenage boy whose parents 383 00:20:05,333 --> 00:20:06,903 were sent to Russia last night 384 00:20:07,007 --> 00:20:08,775 as he was left behind. 385 00:20:08,874 --> 00:20:11,525 Juan Lazaro Jr had no idea his parents were spies 386 00:20:11,624 --> 00:20:12,921 and when they were sent to Russia, 387 00:20:13,016 --> 00:20:14,554 he decided to stay in New York. 388 00:20:14,652 --> 00:20:16,104 I tried reaching out to Juan 389 00:20:16,208 --> 00:20:18,478 but he won't return my calls or emails. 390 00:20:19,391 --> 00:20:21,565 The Murphys, two young children, returned to Russia 391 00:20:21,662 --> 00:20:24,094 with their parents where they were repatriated. 392 00:20:25,170 --> 00:20:27,379 Then there was Tim Foley who returned to Russia 393 00:20:27,479 --> 00:20:29,528 with his parents and brother. 394 00:20:29,632 --> 00:20:32,200 Foley was actually his mom's cover name. 395 00:20:32,296 --> 00:20:34,469 In 2010, he was given a Russian passport 396 00:20:34,566 --> 00:20:36,421 with the name Timofei Vavilov, 397 00:20:36,519 --> 00:20:38,853 which was his mom's real last name. 398 00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:41,278 And that really struck me because 10 years ago 399 00:20:41,382 --> 00:20:44,066 I made the decision to change my name from Chelsea Barsky 400 00:20:44,170 --> 00:20:46,142 to Chelsea Dittrich. 401 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:47,931 Dittrich was my dad's real last name. 402 00:20:48,033 --> 00:20:50,324 Barsky was just a name that the KGB stole 403 00:20:50,421 --> 00:20:51,400 and gave to my dad. 404 00:20:51,496 --> 00:20:54,702 Out of respect for the real Jack Barsky and his family, 405 00:20:54,804 --> 00:20:58,008 I just didn't think it made sense to hold onto the name. 406 00:20:58,112 --> 00:21:00,239 And you know, under normal circumstances 407 00:21:00,341 --> 00:21:03,746 I would have been given the Dittrich name. 408 00:21:03,845 --> 00:21:06,775 I was not in normal circumstances obviously. 409 00:21:06,874 --> 00:21:10,937 So, I was given the false name. 410 00:21:12,969 --> 00:21:15,537 My dad's real name is Albrecht Dittrich 411 00:21:15,635 --> 00:21:18,961 and even though he does not use it legally, 412 00:21:19,065 --> 00:21:22,746 it was really important for me to have that emotional tie 413 00:21:22,845 --> 00:21:24,836 to his real name. 414 00:21:29,679 --> 00:21:32,687 I'm going to see my dad today at his house in Atlanta. 415 00:21:32,787 --> 00:21:35,996 Really just wanna know what he really did as a spy. 416 00:21:36,094 --> 00:21:38,740 Why do you have this stupid rock here? 417 00:21:38,844 --> 00:21:40,333 Why is the rock stupid? 418 00:21:40,432 --> 00:21:41,249 Let me tell you what that is. 419 00:21:41,353 --> 00:21:42,046 It's a rock. 420 00:21:42,150 --> 00:21:44,556 Well no, no, this is a paperweight. 421 00:21:44,658 --> 00:21:47,104 That's sort of a memory from the past 422 00:21:47,208 --> 00:21:49,556 that I actually made myself. 423 00:21:53,940 --> 00:21:58,621 That is a replica of a container that I actually used 424 00:21:58,719 --> 00:22:02,545 for handing over material to my handlers. 425 00:22:05,172 --> 00:22:08,161 It's called a container for a dead drop operation. 426 00:22:11,902 --> 00:22:14,231 I've now sort of come to terms with, 427 00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:16,164 okay, he was really a spy. 428 00:22:16,266 --> 00:22:18,737 But now I'm thinking, okay, how did he do it? 429 00:22:19,891 --> 00:22:22,856 Now, I literally slid into a different identity, 430 00:22:22,958 --> 00:22:26,007 you've got to believe that you are that. 431 00:22:26,104 --> 00:22:28,716 So you have to believe your lie. 432 00:22:28,816 --> 00:22:30,787 Yeah, absolutely. 433 00:22:30,883 --> 00:22:32,737 It's just weird when you look back on it. 434 00:22:32,836 --> 00:22:34,969 You blended in so well. 435 00:22:35,066 --> 00:22:37,316 It was just something I did on the side, 436 00:22:37,420 --> 00:22:39,028 like, you know some people play golf 437 00:22:39,132 --> 00:22:43,729 and I did secret messages and did surveillance detection. 438 00:22:43,833 --> 00:22:44,729 It's just the funny thing is that 439 00:22:44,825 --> 00:22:47,258 it's just so like casual to you. 440 00:22:48,490 --> 00:22:49,708 It's very hard to get my dad to have 441 00:22:49,806 --> 00:22:51,937 an emotional conversation because my dad 442 00:22:52,037 --> 00:22:55,720 is just always in an operative mode. 443 00:22:55,821 --> 00:22:58,670 Communication from the centre that was Moscow 444 00:22:58,767 --> 00:23:01,237 to me was always through shortwave radio. 445 00:23:03,191 --> 00:23:04,766 Oh, wait a minute. 446 00:23:04,862 --> 00:23:06,854 Can you hear it? 447 00:23:07,691 --> 00:23:08,586 Oh wow. 448 00:23:08,690 --> 00:23:10,856 Yeah, you can see that. 449 00:23:10,958 --> 00:23:13,106 And this is the fine tuning here. 450 00:23:14,979 --> 00:23:16,970 It's gone. 451 00:23:17,412 --> 00:23:19,758 Yes, this is still used today by the way. 452 00:23:20,679 --> 00:23:22,450 I tell you what I would hear normally, 453 00:23:22,547 --> 00:23:23,525 it would go... 454 00:23:27,527 --> 00:23:29,103 And for like about a half hour. 455 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:30,016 Morse code? 456 00:23:30,115 --> 00:23:31,490 Morse code, exactly. 457 00:23:31,594 --> 00:23:34,479 So this is how you received messages from your bosses. 458 00:23:34,577 --> 00:23:37,345 Right, it's the only way, only shortwave. 459 00:23:37,449 --> 00:23:39,379 How did you send them messages? 460 00:23:39,479 --> 00:23:42,487 Sometimes I had long reports, so I wrote them 461 00:23:42,583 --> 00:23:44,575 and I photographed 'em. 462 00:23:47,167 --> 00:23:52,142 And then I handed the undeveloped film in a container 463 00:23:52,504 --> 00:23:56,385 in what's called a drop operation to a local agent. 464 00:23:56,487 --> 00:23:58,615 I gotta show you how to make one of those containers. 465 00:23:58,719 --> 00:24:00,450 You'll be surprised. 466 00:24:00,548 --> 00:24:03,952 It's so cool to learn how my dad actually did his spy job. 467 00:24:04,054 --> 00:24:07,816 It's so different than it is in the movies. 468 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,286 So, what I have here is the secret piece of material 469 00:24:11,383 --> 00:24:16,225 that I wanna hand in a drop operation to a Soviet agent. 470 00:24:16,325 --> 00:24:17,298 And I wrap it. 471 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,129 So now I need to put this into something 472 00:24:20,229 --> 00:24:22,219 where it looks totally innocent. 473 00:24:23,853 --> 00:24:25,746 This is the stuff you used to make the drop? 474 00:24:25,844 --> 00:24:27,179 Yeah, sure. 475 00:24:27,277 --> 00:24:28,812 Did mom ever catch you doing this? 476 00:24:28,912 --> 00:24:29,606 No. 477 00:24:29,708 --> 00:24:32,275 I did this in this one room that I told your mother, 478 00:24:32,774 --> 00:24:34,550 "That's my room, don't go in there." 479 00:24:34,649 --> 00:24:37,378 This does not require a great deal of skill. 480 00:24:37,475 --> 00:24:39,466 You need a little bit more. 481 00:24:41,858 --> 00:24:44,070 And then we make a dirty rock out of it. 482 00:24:44,167 --> 00:24:46,456 You know, the whole idea is to use something 483 00:24:46,561 --> 00:24:48,811 that's so simple that nobody could even think 484 00:24:48,908 --> 00:24:50,800 that it's something special, you know? 485 00:24:50,899 --> 00:24:55,244 Okay, so when you go and you put this rock 486 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,762 at your location, if you recognise that somebody 487 00:24:59,860 --> 00:25:01,595 is following you, were you trained 488 00:25:01,696 --> 00:25:04,302 on how to evade somebody on foot? 489 00:25:04,403 --> 00:25:06,495 If I'm trying to do an operation, 490 00:25:06,595 --> 00:25:08,005 I abort the operation. 491 00:25:08,108 --> 00:25:09,720 And I don't panic. 492 00:25:09,821 --> 00:25:12,947 Next thing is I go home and see whether there was sign 493 00:25:13,050 --> 00:25:15,379 that somebody was going through my stuff. 494 00:25:16,475 --> 00:25:18,447 And when there was clear evidence 495 00:25:18,550 --> 00:25:21,274 that I was being investigated, 496 00:25:21,378 --> 00:25:24,204 I had a pretty brilliant escape plan. 497 00:25:25,879 --> 00:25:30,916 I would load my bicycle into the trunk of my hatchback 498 00:25:31,014 --> 00:25:35,120 and drive to a road adjacent to a park. 499 00:25:36,157 --> 00:25:39,341 There was a bike path, maybe a quarter mile. 500 00:25:41,370 --> 00:25:43,364 Go through that park. 501 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,711 Come out on the other side. 502 00:25:47,066 --> 00:25:49,036 There was a subway station. 503 00:25:49,134 --> 00:25:51,126 Dive into the subway and I'm gone. 504 00:25:52,163 --> 00:25:54,432 Go to Canada via train. 505 00:25:56,786 --> 00:25:59,509 I also had escape documents. 506 00:25:59,614 --> 00:26:00,586 They were false documents. 507 00:26:00,690 --> 00:26:04,490 I had a Canadian passport and driver's license. 508 00:26:04,594 --> 00:26:05,690 Do you think you would have started 509 00:26:05,786 --> 00:26:07,440 over completely there and... 510 00:26:07,538 --> 00:26:10,427 No, I would have joined my family and I don't know. 511 00:26:10,528 --> 00:26:12,855 Oh, you would have used Canada to go back to Germany? 512 00:26:12,956 --> 00:26:14,949 Oh sure. 513 00:26:15,545 --> 00:26:17,478 So this is where I'm coming to terms 514 00:26:17,576 --> 00:26:20,184 with this whole thing, because that escape, 515 00:26:20,286 --> 00:26:23,552 if you had to use it and you had to go to Canada, 516 00:26:25,346 --> 00:26:26,440 we wouldn't be here right now. 517 00:26:26,538 --> 00:26:28,614 Possibly you wouldn't even be alive. 518 00:26:29,644 --> 00:26:30,624 Or, 519 00:26:30,721 --> 00:26:33,249 or we wouldn't know each other, yeah sure. 520 00:26:33,353 --> 00:26:35,461 Wow, that's just crazy. 521 00:26:40,643 --> 00:26:42,951 Yeah, I didn't expect that. 522 00:26:44,384 --> 00:26:47,749 When my dad came to the US, it wasn't really his goal 523 00:26:47,853 --> 00:26:49,345 to have a family here. 524 00:26:49,442 --> 00:26:51,295 Eventually, he was gonna go back. 525 00:26:51,394 --> 00:26:53,210 I was torn, you know, 526 00:26:53,307 --> 00:26:55,355 I have a child here and I have a family there. 527 00:26:55,460 --> 00:26:58,786 This was for my own personal self-interest. 528 00:26:58,884 --> 00:27:02,509 I should have left you and I didn't. 529 00:27:03,624 --> 00:27:05,478 If I go back, I'm a hero. 530 00:27:05,576 --> 00:27:07,067 The Russians promised me a house. 531 00:27:07,170 --> 00:27:08,701 Everything would have been great. 532 00:27:08,802 --> 00:27:13,780 If I stay, I have possibly the FBI after me, 533 00:27:14,338 --> 00:27:16,331 the KGB after me, 534 00:27:16,931 --> 00:27:18,699 and ultimately you won. 535 00:27:18,798 --> 00:27:20,451 It was close, I have to admit it, 536 00:27:20,556 --> 00:27:23,001 it was really close, but you won. 537 00:27:23,103 --> 00:27:25,095 You and your mother. 538 00:27:27,045 --> 00:27:30,153 My dad's not perfect, but when he decided to stay, 539 00:27:31,152 --> 00:27:32,763 he gave it 100%. 540 00:27:32,863 --> 00:27:36,549 He decided to really stay and be my dad. 541 00:27:36,648 --> 00:27:40,714 And I think I just got very, very lucky in that regard. 542 00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:48,328 I met Robert Korczak, who is also the child of a spy, 543 00:27:48,425 --> 00:27:51,751 and I learned how deeply his family was also affected 544 00:27:51,856 --> 00:27:54,106 by his father's past, but I wanted to learn more. 545 00:27:54,203 --> 00:27:56,894 So I'm meeting with Robert's mom, Barbara, 546 00:27:56,991 --> 00:27:59,482 who like my mom, was also the wife of a spy. 547 00:27:59,578 --> 00:28:03,544 One thing I know about Barbara, is that she and Boris 548 00:28:03,645 --> 00:28:06,809 are still married, and they still live under 549 00:28:06,909 --> 00:28:09,357 the same roof so they have kept their family together and 550 00:28:09,461 --> 00:28:13,585 I'm really interested in knowing how she's been able 551 00:28:13,682 --> 00:28:15,451 to keep the family together despite the things 552 00:28:15,556 --> 00:28:18,324 that they've gone through as a family. 553 00:28:18,423 --> 00:28:20,595 Knowing what you knew about your husband 554 00:28:20,690 --> 00:28:24,336 being a double agent, did you ever confront him? 555 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:30,711 No, because his idea was that working as a double agent, 556 00:28:30,808 --> 00:28:35,609 he is working his way that we can go to the 557 00:28:35,711 --> 00:28:38,259 United States and have better life. 558 00:28:40,609 --> 00:28:44,413 I always felt like we'd be better, more peaceful, 559 00:28:44,516 --> 00:28:47,836 more quiet, if he had just regular job 560 00:28:47,941 --> 00:28:49,932 like everybody else. 561 00:28:50,528 --> 00:28:52,740 Why did this happen to me? 562 00:28:52,836 --> 00:28:57,816 Why just me is exposed to such a strange environment 563 00:28:58,451 --> 00:29:00,586 and strange situations. 564 00:29:00,683 --> 00:29:04,470 I didn't do anything wrong, but it just happened. 565 00:29:09,884 --> 00:29:13,808 At the same time, I felt proud of my husband 566 00:29:13,911 --> 00:29:18,308 because he was extraordinary. 567 00:29:18,411 --> 00:29:20,538 He was not like everybody else. 568 00:29:20,643 --> 00:29:23,846 But he was special, and I like this about him. 569 00:29:23,949 --> 00:29:25,882 But, were you ever angry with him? 570 00:29:25,978 --> 00:29:28,826 It seems like you were sad that, you know, 571 00:29:28,926 --> 00:29:29,864 Why did this happen to me? 572 00:29:29,961 --> 00:29:32,132 My mom had the same reaction. 573 00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:34,403 I, I'm not angry with him. 574 00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:38,326 Because he wanted the best for the family. 575 00:29:39,403 --> 00:29:43,163 Emotionally, I was not involved with his job 576 00:29:43,268 --> 00:29:45,257 so I was just a bystander. 577 00:29:47,905 --> 00:29:52,211 So my role as a wife was support him. 578 00:29:56,432 --> 00:30:00,733 And I had to be strong to keep this family together. 579 00:30:02,405 --> 00:30:07,463 And make them in a loving environment. 580 00:30:09,021 --> 00:30:11,348 The reason I'm getting really emotional right now 581 00:30:11,452 --> 00:30:14,475 is because your attitude is totally different than my mom's. 582 00:30:15,432 --> 00:30:19,318 My mom is the complete opposite of you 583 00:30:19,415 --> 00:30:21,749 in terms of how she took it. 584 00:30:21,845 --> 00:30:24,615 She was like "Why is this happening to me?" 585 00:30:24,713 --> 00:30:27,280 "This was not my plan for my life." 586 00:30:27,385 --> 00:30:31,107 She became angry and bitter and she never let that go. 587 00:30:31,204 --> 00:30:35,129 It's just the pain which she has inside 588 00:30:35,232 --> 00:30:37,720 is keeping her away. 589 00:30:37,819 --> 00:30:41,068 Tell her what bothers you. 590 00:30:41,165 --> 00:30:45,764 What is hurting you inside and ask her the same question. 591 00:30:45,866 --> 00:30:49,991 What is hurting her and how you two can make up 592 00:30:50,088 --> 00:30:52,954 to have mother-daughter relationship. 593 00:30:54,153 --> 00:30:56,540 And see how it's going to work this way. 594 00:30:58,530 --> 00:31:01,021 I really just admired Barbara for her strength more 595 00:31:01,124 --> 00:31:04,232 than anything and especially her choice in wanting 596 00:31:04,328 --> 00:31:06,299 to keep the family together at all costs. 597 00:31:06,398 --> 00:31:11,955 When I talked to her, it really opened my eyes to the pain 598 00:31:12,060 --> 00:31:14,610 that my mom was going through. 599 00:31:14,706 --> 00:31:18,152 Because of what my dad did, this had affected my mom 600 00:31:18,257 --> 00:31:22,277 in a way that I just couldn't understand. 601 00:31:26,181 --> 00:31:28,749 After meeting with Barbara, and taking in her words 602 00:31:28,853 --> 00:31:31,575 of advice, I'm gonna see if there is a possibility 603 00:31:31,681 --> 00:31:35,085 to get my mom to open up. 604 00:31:35,181 --> 00:31:36,673 I just wanted to give you a quick call. 605 00:31:36,777 --> 00:31:41,978 I had this really interesting meeting with another spouse 606 00:31:42,074 --> 00:31:43,768 of a former spy and... 607 00:31:43,864 --> 00:31:47,152 So what it has to do with me? 608 00:31:47,249 --> 00:31:53,286 I thought about our talk, and, and how you processed, 609 00:31:53,383 --> 00:31:58,364 dad being a spy, and how you were pretty angry with him. 610 00:31:59,364 --> 00:32:02,806 And you're even angry with, you know, me and Jesse, and-- 611 00:32:02,903 --> 00:32:05,478 Everything you say, it's like, that's your 612 00:32:05,575 --> 00:32:08,461 point of view of what I'm angry about. 613 00:32:08,565 --> 00:32:10,815 It's not your father being a spy. 614 00:32:10,912 --> 00:32:12,902 He was a damn liar. 615 00:32:13,422 --> 00:32:14,556 Boris Korczak's wife. 616 00:32:14,661 --> 00:32:17,065 She was in your exact position. 617 00:32:17,170 --> 00:32:18,537 She was in your shoes. 618 00:32:18,643 --> 00:32:21,768 She went through a lot of, if not almost all 619 00:32:21,867 --> 00:32:23,440 of the same things that you went through, 620 00:32:23,537 --> 00:32:24,595 based on what you told me. 621 00:32:24,699 --> 00:32:26,386 You don't have a clue, really, 622 00:32:26,489 --> 00:32:28,220 what I've been through. 623 00:32:28,324 --> 00:32:30,853 He didn't want to get married to me. 624 00:32:30,949 --> 00:32:31,963 He didn't want to have you. 625 00:32:32,066 --> 00:32:34,574 And then he had this whole secret background. 626 00:32:35,528 --> 00:32:37,824 I just thought maybe you would want to talk to me 627 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,614 a little bit about this stuff, and-- 628 00:32:39,710 --> 00:32:40,969 I don't want to talk to you about anything 629 00:32:41,066 --> 00:32:44,316 because you have been supporting your father. 630 00:32:44,412 --> 00:32:45,306 He's my father. 631 00:32:45,411 --> 00:32:46,162 And you want me to tell my story? 632 00:32:46,248 --> 00:32:48,374 Right now I don't give a about him 633 00:32:48,478 --> 00:32:50,210 and his spy 634 00:32:50,306 --> 00:32:53,199 He's just a big liar. 635 00:32:53,295 --> 00:32:55,383 He never told me he was married, he never told me 636 00:32:55,489 --> 00:32:57,653 he had children, he just went through the whole life 637 00:32:57,757 --> 00:33:00,961 with me there with this big lie hanging behind him. 638 00:33:01,065 --> 00:33:04,190 I don't care anymore about talking about him 639 00:33:04,287 --> 00:33:05,662 and his bull 640 00:33:05,761 --> 00:33:06,460 Okay? 641 00:33:06,557 --> 00:33:08,528 So I don't need to talk to you about anything 642 00:33:08,632 --> 00:33:10,324 because you don't understand. 643 00:33:10,422 --> 00:33:12,432 That's just bringing up a lot of painful, 644 00:33:12,536 --> 00:33:15,382 hurtful memories that I don't want to talk about. 645 00:33:15,479 --> 00:33:19,085 Okay, Mom, all I really wanted to do was 646 00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:22,114 share the conversation that I had with Barbara 647 00:33:22,211 --> 00:33:24,065 with you, and if you're not-- 648 00:33:24,170 --> 00:33:25,239 Yeah, but I don't care about these people, 649 00:33:25,324 --> 00:33:26,220 I got my own story. 650 00:33:26,315 --> 00:33:27,374 Can I, can I finish? 651 00:33:27,470 --> 00:33:28,287 Can I please finish? 652 00:33:28,386 --> 00:33:30,045 If you are not ready to talk about it, 653 00:33:30,143 --> 00:33:32,315 we can just try another time. 654 00:33:32,411 --> 00:33:33,941 I don't even want to try anytime. 655 00:33:34,045 --> 00:33:35,297 How about that? 656 00:33:35,402 --> 00:33:37,411 Okay, Mom. 657 00:33:37,508 --> 00:33:38,682 Have a good night. 658 00:33:38,786 --> 00:33:40,777 Bye bye. 659 00:33:47,989 --> 00:33:49,161 I think after that phone call, 660 00:33:49,258 --> 00:33:51,989 I'm not going to try anymore. 661 00:33:52,088 --> 00:33:54,661 And I think she's made it pretty clear to me that 662 00:33:54,758 --> 00:33:56,652 she's not ready to forgive. 663 00:33:56,749 --> 00:33:58,979 She's not ready to open up. 664 00:33:59,085 --> 00:34:01,374 She's not ready to move on. 665 00:34:01,470 --> 00:34:03,902 You can't help someone that doesn't want to be helped. 666 00:34:04,777 --> 00:34:06,768 And she's just not ready. 667 00:34:11,069 --> 00:34:14,752 In a traditional family dynamic, you may not 668 00:34:14,855 --> 00:34:16,587 have this kind of drama. 669 00:34:16,685 --> 00:34:20,252 But, this drama was brought on because of the fact 670 00:34:20,352 --> 00:34:22,343 that my dad was a spy. 671 00:34:25,240 --> 00:34:28,168 My dad sent me an email recently and not just to me. 672 00:34:28,267 --> 00:34:30,258 He sent it to the whole family. 673 00:34:31,052 --> 00:34:34,302 He actually opens up the email with saying that, 674 00:34:34,401 --> 00:34:37,328 "Today, I got my second of 15 radiation treatments 675 00:34:37,427 --> 00:34:39,279 for prostate cancer. 676 00:34:39,377 --> 00:34:40,633 I really did not want to mention it 677 00:34:40,735 --> 00:34:43,941 because it is all under control and you should not worry." 678 00:34:44,038 --> 00:34:47,485 He ended the email by saying, "Sorry for all the 679 00:34:47,587 --> 00:34:50,392 medical stuff, but like an older model car, 680 00:34:50,493 --> 00:34:52,743 us veterans must spend a bit more time in the shop. 681 00:34:52,843 --> 00:34:54,834 Love you all, Dad." 682 00:34:55,990 --> 00:34:58,936 I had no idea he had cancer and I couldn't believe that 683 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,070 he would even announce that in an email. 684 00:35:03,896 --> 00:35:05,887 So, what's up? 685 00:35:06,567 --> 00:35:08,558 I got your email. 686 00:35:11,866 --> 00:35:12,802 All right, so I'm sorry. 687 00:35:12,902 --> 00:35:15,549 I should have probably told you earlier that 688 00:35:15,646 --> 00:35:16,665 something was going on. 689 00:35:16,762 --> 00:35:19,293 I was actually trying to keep it a secret. 690 00:35:19,393 --> 00:35:22,280 I didn't respond to the email 691 00:35:22,378 --> 00:35:25,485 because I was pissed that you didn't tell me. 692 00:35:26,003 --> 00:35:28,375 You know, I didn't feel like telling you because to me 693 00:35:28,477 --> 00:35:30,326 it's almost like a non-issue. 694 00:35:30,427 --> 00:35:31,360 I understand, cancer-- 695 00:35:31,463 --> 00:35:33,155 How do you think that's a non-issue? 696 00:35:33,253 --> 00:35:33,910 It's cancer. 697 00:35:34,012 --> 00:35:35,503 Yes, I'm taking things too lightly. 698 00:35:35,607 --> 00:35:40,424 I have always lived without fear. 699 00:35:41,418 --> 00:35:43,552 And I'm not afraid of this either. 700 00:35:43,652 --> 00:35:45,982 How can you operate undercover for 10 years 701 00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:48,369 and be afraid every day that you might go to jail 702 00:35:48,473 --> 00:35:50,860 or that somebody might do something bad to you? 703 00:35:52,375 --> 00:35:55,223 This fearlessness is the way I'm wired, fundamentally, 704 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,727 and you operate like an island, an emotional island. 705 00:35:58,829 --> 00:36:01,098 That's part of my baggage. 706 00:36:02,570 --> 00:36:04,919 It's just not a normal thing. 707 00:36:05,022 --> 00:36:07,928 To have no feelings and no fear. 708 00:36:09,919 --> 00:36:11,576 That's not normal. 709 00:36:11,674 --> 00:36:15,401 You know, this has developed into a pattern, with you. 710 00:36:15,500 --> 00:36:18,785 You told me, on my way to school, that, you know, you were a spy, 711 00:36:18,884 --> 00:36:23,084 and you just kind of dropped me off and said, you know, "Okay, go on, 712 00:36:23,187 --> 00:36:25,178 about your day." 713 00:36:25,696 --> 00:36:27,468 I wasn't able to focus because I spent 714 00:36:27,567 --> 00:36:29,696 so much time processing it. 715 00:36:29,799 --> 00:36:31,727 And it affected me. 716 00:36:31,830 --> 00:36:35,513 And, fast-forward to now, you tell me after the fact 717 00:36:35,611 --> 00:36:39,495 that you have prostate cancer again thinking that it 718 00:36:39,598 --> 00:36:41,651 was not going to affect me, and it did affect me 719 00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:45,312 and that's why I'm asking you to, in the future, 720 00:36:45,410 --> 00:36:48,736 do better at telling me before it becomes a thing 721 00:36:48,839 --> 00:36:50,852 that I will get really upset about. 722 00:36:50,951 --> 00:36:55,830 All right, um, if-- if you 723 00:36:55,928 --> 00:36:57,861 want me to feel guilty, 724 00:36:57,959 --> 00:37:02,120 you just achieved that. 725 00:37:02,223 --> 00:37:03,558 My dad still doesn't get it. 726 00:37:03,656 --> 00:37:07,343 He can't seem to break this spy mode and just be my dad. 727 00:37:07,442 --> 00:37:09,928 Everything is a mission and a strategy with him. 728 00:37:10,031 --> 00:37:12,477 I just want him to see that his actions have consequences 729 00:37:12,580 --> 00:37:14,687 for those who love him like me. 730 00:37:15,567 --> 00:37:16,584 I'll let you know. 731 00:37:16,683 --> 00:37:18,174 I'll keep you more informed. 732 00:37:18,276 --> 00:37:20,267 I promise. 733 00:37:27,111 --> 00:37:29,361 Today I'm going to meet with Boria Sax, 734 00:37:29,459 --> 00:37:33,223 who's the son of Saville Sax, who was a spy. 735 00:37:33,321 --> 00:37:34,419 Are you Boria? 736 00:37:34,517 --> 00:37:35,218 I sure am. 737 00:37:35,317 --> 00:37:36,651 I'm Chelsea, its nice to meet you. 738 00:37:36,750 --> 00:37:38,741 Actually, I give hugs. 739 00:37:48,223 --> 00:37:49,834 How did you find out? 740 00:37:49,933 --> 00:37:53,218 I found out from a journalist. 741 00:37:53,321 --> 00:37:55,888 I was well into middle age. 742 00:37:55,986 --> 00:37:59,433 It was very hard for me to talk about it to anybody. 743 00:37:59,535 --> 00:38:02,937 Eventually, the desire to know, 744 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,165 overcame all of my hesitations. 745 00:38:06,267 --> 00:38:10,250 Things from my childhood started to make sense. 746 00:38:11,401 --> 00:38:14,968 When I was growing up, there were all sorts of tensions 747 00:38:15,071 --> 00:38:16,723 in my home. 748 00:38:16,821 --> 00:38:21,861 People were following my parents around. 749 00:38:21,959 --> 00:38:25,642 That's why this spy thing is so distressing. 750 00:38:25,745 --> 00:38:30,044 It tells you that the world isn't what you think it is. 751 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,084 When I found out that my dad was a former KGB agent, 752 00:38:35,187 --> 00:38:36,995 I had a moment where I thought, 753 00:38:37,098 --> 00:38:40,125 is he who he presented himself to me to be? 754 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,968 There's just so much role playing. 755 00:38:44,067 --> 00:38:45,999 So many disguises. 756 00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:51,078 That finally you have to dig very intensely 757 00:38:51,752 --> 00:38:55,240 to find the real human being beyond all that. 758 00:38:55,341 --> 00:38:59,859 Were you ever able to uncover that about your father? 759 00:38:59,962 --> 00:39:03,048 When I finally found out about this, 760 00:39:03,145 --> 00:39:05,694 he had been dead for some time. 761 00:39:07,685 --> 00:39:11,810 What I saw in Boria Sax was a sadness in his eyes 762 00:39:11,908 --> 00:39:13,883 that made me feel really terrible for him 763 00:39:13,984 --> 00:39:17,984 because he has never been able to have a conversation 764 00:39:18,087 --> 00:39:20,136 with his dad about it. 765 00:39:20,234 --> 00:39:23,359 And I'm able to get the answers that I need out of my dad 766 00:39:23,462 --> 00:39:25,453 because my dad is still here. 767 00:39:26,651 --> 00:39:28,142 I just found out my dad has cancer 768 00:39:28,243 --> 00:39:30,971 and I need to talk to him while I still have the chance. 769 00:39:31,069 --> 00:39:33,502 He needs to know that his spy life has hurt me. 770 00:39:41,386 --> 00:39:43,976 I'm trying to create an environment with my dad 771 00:39:44,079 --> 00:39:46,927 where we can actually talk to each other about 772 00:39:47,025 --> 00:39:49,793 some of the more difficult topics that we've 773 00:39:49,891 --> 00:39:50,985 never been able to talk about. 774 00:39:51,088 --> 00:39:54,351 Particularly, that his actions as a spy has affected me. 775 00:39:55,869 --> 00:40:00,848 The things that you were doing as a spy. 776 00:40:01,204 --> 00:40:05,690 You might think that this didn't have any 777 00:40:05,787 --> 00:40:09,693 affect on the family like me or Jesse. 778 00:40:12,278 --> 00:40:15,166 You weren't directly impacted because it wasn't 779 00:40:15,269 --> 00:40:19,351 like I was absent for long periods of time. 780 00:40:19,452 --> 00:40:20,507 You remember I was always there. 781 00:40:20,604 --> 00:40:22,458 I was always supportive, right? 782 00:40:22,559 --> 00:40:26,083 The things that you did may not have impacted me directly, 783 00:40:26,184 --> 00:40:31,101 but they certainly impacted me psychologically 784 00:40:31,202 --> 00:40:33,251 and emotionally and these are things 785 00:40:33,354 --> 00:40:35,345 that I'm only now realising. 786 00:40:38,412 --> 00:40:43,269 I can only say to everybody who I hurt, I'm sorry. 787 00:40:45,818 --> 00:40:47,034 I can't, I can't. 788 00:40:47,135 --> 00:40:48,150 I didn't intend to. 789 00:40:48,251 --> 00:40:49,863 You know that. 790 00:40:49,961 --> 00:40:53,050 And it's one thing to analyse and to figure out, you know, 791 00:40:53,150 --> 00:40:54,126 where that comes from. 792 00:40:54,226 --> 00:40:56,952 It's another thing to live the life that 793 00:40:57,050 --> 00:41:02,034 you think you want to live as a good person. 794 00:41:03,144 --> 00:41:05,141 And that's what I'm trying to do. 795 00:41:06,653 --> 00:41:08,784 I'm very glad that I've been able to tell him 796 00:41:08,885 --> 00:41:10,894 I'm feeling a certain way and I'm glad he was 797 00:41:10,992 --> 00:41:12,251 willing to listen. 798 00:41:12,351 --> 00:41:17,327 And I feel a lot more comfortable with myself knowing 799 00:41:18,046 --> 00:41:22,845 what I know now about my dad and what his intentions were. 800 00:41:22,943 --> 00:41:25,992 So, Dad, this has been really helpful for me 801 00:41:26,092 --> 00:41:31,068 to be able to tell you, you know, what I think and how I feel. 802 00:41:31,909 --> 00:41:34,916 And this is a conversation we've never had before. 803 00:41:35,016 --> 00:41:39,675 So, um, so thank you for listening to me. 804 00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:41,885 All right girl, baby. 805 00:41:41,983 --> 00:41:48,934 Even though, you know, you're so big, you know, you're still my baby. 806 00:41:49,037 --> 00:41:49,653 All right. 807 00:41:50,351 --> 00:41:52,462 - Love you dad. - I love you. 808 00:42:00,492 --> 00:42:02,820 I reached out to dozens of children of spies, 809 00:42:02,918 --> 00:42:06,127 but the majority of them declined to tell their stories. 810 00:42:06,921 --> 00:42:09,334 But, I've been able to meet some amazing people 811 00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:11,426 who I share a unique bond with. 812 00:42:12,537 --> 00:42:14,528 They've helped me realise I'm not alone. 813 00:42:15,962 --> 00:42:18,653 No matter what country a spy is working for, 814 00:42:18,752 --> 00:42:21,921 the lies, the danger, the lost sense of identity 815 00:42:22,020 --> 00:42:24,845 are passed onto us, their children. 816 00:42:26,479 --> 00:42:28,412 Some of us are separated from our families 817 00:42:28,511 --> 00:42:30,203 or forced into witness protection. 818 00:42:30,305 --> 00:42:32,993 Others go into hiding to escape the scrutiny 819 00:42:33,093 --> 00:42:34,229 of their parents' actions. 820 00:42:34,328 --> 00:42:36,660 Espionage creates many victims. 821 00:42:36,758 --> 00:42:39,627 But the children of spies are among the innocent. 822 00:42:41,497 --> 00:42:43,488 Are we able to help them? 823 00:42:44,328 --> 00:42:46,354 Can they ever come out of the shadows? 59859

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