All language subtitles for out.en

- For weeks previously I'd wanted to

tell them, because I was just tired.

You get tired of living like a double life

from your house and with your friends.

I told my mom.

My dad was in the living room.

I was in the pool room, the game room.

And I was sitting on the pool table.

I don't remember what let into it other

than I just really wanted to tell them.

I wanted them to know so it was out there.

I knew something was gonna
happen but I just wanted them

to know so that I didn't feel like

I was hiding myself from them.

Because I mean, they're my parents.

(ambient music)

They were talking about this
program, Love in Action.

They said to fill out this application

type thing to get into the program.

But like, I took and I was like
procrastinating or whatever.

And then when they confronted me about

it I just told them I
wasn't going to apply.

Because I asked them
what it was and they said

well they don't really know
exactly what it's about

but it's like group therapy and

individual therapy and family therapy.

I wasn't sure what I was getting into

and so I didn't really even fill

out an application at all
to get into the program.

After they had told me
that they didn't know

exactly what was going to
happen was when I found

the rules of the program that
had been emailed to them.

I found all of them, in detail, about what

was going to happen and everything so

I was really upset because
my parents just lied to me.

I think my parents, they
went into it thinking that it

was going to change something,
and change my orientation.

And so I was really hesitant.

I guess that was the big thing
is I thought I was going into

something that was going to
make my life worse forever.

That's how it happened.

- We're going to turn
now to an issue that has

people around the country
taking sides this morning

all because of a teenager who seems to

have issued a kind of cry for help.

His parents enlisted him
in one of the faith based

programs which claim to help
people reject homosexuality.

The programs used to be reserved

for adults but now, for teens.

And here's this young man's story.

(pop music)

- These protesters
are standing in front

of Love in Action in
Raleigh, a new facility

that helps teens forsake homosexuality.

Reverend John Smid is Love in
Action's executive director.

- I don't believe that people choose

to have homosexual thoughts or feelings.

- Smid says
his organization is

Christ centered and has already helped

a couple dozen teenagers
resist homosexual temptations.

- On a hot
Thursday afternoon, protesters

are fired up and Love in
Action is taking the heat.

- We believe that organizations
such as Love in Action

and specifically Love in
Action, have a deceptive policy.

- You can be a--

- Good Christian.

- And be--

- Homosexual.

(pop music)

- Welcome ladies and gentlemen to

this edition of The 700 Club.

Can parents change their
children's sexual orientation?

One Memphis father says the
answer is emphatically yes.

And that's just what he's trying

to do for his 16 year old son.

(suspenseful music)

- When I got there it was
a total stripping away.

The first thing was all
about stripping away.

They inspected my bags which, it felt

like such a bizarre violation.

- We went into an office
where they had to go through

all my things that I had with
me like my wallet and stuff.

They took out things that would like,

I forget what they called them.

- Gay contraband?

I think it was mostly for this

whole F.I. thing, the false image.

Was I bringing anything with me that

represented the old life, the gay life.

- I can't remember but it was
like one CD out of 50 that

I brought, and there was like
50 Christian CDs and I had

one CD from like, a Broadway musical.

And they were like, oh, we can't

have you with the musical stuff.

I think it was like Beauty and

the Beast or something like that.

- But then they wanted to
take this Bach CD I had.

And I said, but it's
Bach, he's a Christian.

- At that point we weren't
allowed to talk to anyone,

any other clients or anything.

- Can't watch
TV, can't listen to music,

can't listen to the radio,
can't read the newspaper.

- Couldn't go anywhere unless you

were with two other people.

There were certain places
in the city you couldn't go.

- I had to get my hair cut shorter

because it had to be above your ear.

- There was a real
emphasis on gender roles

as far as what was deemed masculine

and what was deemed as feminine.

- Every now and then I would
wear something that someone

would be like, I would like
to challenge that shirt,

I think it's a little
too tight or something.

And I'm like, it fits me fine.

- One time they brought
a mechanic by so we could

learn the basics of car maintenance.

- You had to wear socks with, if

you wore sandals or something.

- One time we
went to batting cages where

we went to go conquer our
fears about old sports

anxieties that we had
so we'd hit a baseball.

- I don't know.

I just, some of the rules
I didn't understand.

- And then every now and
then I would sit with my legs

crossed like this or
I would wear something

and the group leader would
just kind of look around

at everyone in the group and he's like,

we need to have, all the men need

to do like, a femininity check.

- When you're there because
your parents found out that

you're gay, that's what's on
your mind the entire time.

So basically everything that
they talk about is filtering

through this I'm here
because I'm gay filter.

And that's what it comes out as.

- I was desperate, absolutely desperate.

I thought I was gonna destroy myself.

I thought, probably
the closest I ever got,

I'm not sure that I ever
had suicidal ideation

but I think I did have some
level of suicidal thoughts

or running away and just, you know,

completely getting away from all of it.

And in some regards Love
in Action offered that.

They offered a real
complete break of running

off to Memphis, Tennessee,
which who knew where that was?

And starting all over
and completely wiping out

everything that had happened in the past

and starting over again and at the time

that actually seemed like
a really great offer.

- If it means giving up
whatever career I have

and moving to a city I don't know and

spending a lot of money because I said

you know what, it doesn't
matter what it takes.

- Quite honestly I was really
nervous because in my mind

if this didn't work, I was doomed.

I was really, literally doomed.

If they couldn't fix me my life was over.

- Love in Action started in 1973

and I became the director in 1990.

In 1994 we moved the ministry from

Northern California to Memphis.

And the reason we moved
is that we found that we

were overwhelming the
churches we were a part of.

They were small churches
and Love in Action had grown

to the place where we
were almost the majority

of the people in the church
and we wrestled through that

trying to figure out how to resolve that.

And I looked around the
country and I found five cities

that I was looking at, and one

of the cities was here in Memphis.

- What I knew about Love
in Action is it was a place

where an adult might go,
like alcoholics anonymous or

ALANON or one of those programs to say

Lord, I'm addicted to gayness,
please make me better.

- What was immediately apparent
to me was that they offered

treatment or some kind
of therapy for behaviors.

One of which they listed
as homosexual behavior.

They also offered it for
drug and alcohol abuse

and addiction to pornography
and sex addiction.

- At the time what we
understand is they take people

who are homosexual on the
premise that it's strictly

behavioral and can be cured and

treated it like a drug
and alcohol program.

- It was so weird to see all the things

they clumped together as
being of the same ilk.

- But according to

Reverend John Smid,
homosexuals do have a choice.

And his life is a perfect example.

Smid is Love in Action's
executive director

and he left the homosexual
lifestyle in 1984.

He's been happily married
since 1988 and wants

others like him who have
struggled with homosexual

feelings to know that they don't have

to act on their same sex attractions.

- And I just see so many people

who want to discount my life.

And my story, my life,
my experience counts.

And I have found tremendous
freedom from homosexuality

and a deep level of change in my life

that would have never occurred had I never

been given the opportunity
to leave homosexuality.

- I think very subconsciously I knew

all the way up until I was 21
but I wasn't consciously aware

that I had same sex
attractions until I was 21.

Up until that point I was
in, I think, such denial

that I didn't know what
to do with those feelings.

I remember in Dallas there
was a strip of gay clubs

and I remember just getting in
my car and driving downtonwn

and driving down the strip and hoping

nobody saw me and then leaving.

And I'd do that for
like a year or two just

trying to get as close as I could to the

culture without ever coming out publicly.

Because at the time I was not a minister

but I was on the staff at a church.

- I think I was 16 and I went
to Albany, the state capital,

with all these other musicians
from around the state.

And they had this crazy
situation where they put

four guys to a room with two beds.

So, without going into
details, things happened.

But the next day I'm
at breakfast and one of

the leaders, the adult leaders,
called me over and said

we got a report that there
was an incident last night.

Did you do this to this boy?

And the thing was, it
wasn't like did you do this

to this boy, it was like,
this is what we did together.

After I told my whole story
and they looked at me with

these angry, hard,
astonished, shocked looks,

I then said but I don't
want to be this way.

This is bad and I want to
change, I really want to change.

- I probably went to like seven or eight

different therapists trying
to find the right person,

trying to find somebody
that I could identify with

and we can talk about my
story in a meaningful way.

But most of those counselors
came from a Christian

theological approach and
I went to them exclusively

to say how do I curb this
sinful behavior in my life.

- I then realized I
need to become straight.

I need to change, I need to
repent of being a homosexual.

And I even heard a
Christian talk about how

God could deliver and change drug addicts,

and prostitutes, and even homosexuals.

And that's how they said
it, even homosexuals.

- It was really just a matter
of if I want to be close

to God I have to end these
same sex attractions.

I never believed that
those things could be,

it was like oil and water,
they would never pair.

It was pretty cut and dry for me.

There really was simply no other option.

- If you have teenagers you probably know

how difficult it is for
everybody in a family.

It gets even more
complicated though if your

child comes to you and says I'm gay.

And here's something
that really struck us.

There is a radical step
some parents are taking

all over the country when
they confront that issue.

They're actually sending
their gay children

off to a kind of camp to
try to make them straight.

- Well I was talking to some
friends of mine who they have

MySpace accounts, and I've got
one too but I don't usually

check the bulletins, and
so they were looking at the

bulletins and they were like
oh my God, our friend Zach

he's going to a straight camp like

and But I'm a Cheerleader.

- Now when you're on someone's
friends list on MySpace

anytime they send out a bulletin,

the bulletin goes to everyone.

So sometimes I'll get bulletins
from people who I haven't

talked to in weeks or
months or maybe even a year.

One of the people that I
got a bulletin from that was

rather alarming was from Zach.

And it said something like
anti-communist gay camp.

And I opened the bulletin
and it said if I seem

screwed up after this summer
it's because I'm screwed up.

My parents have made me go to a

fundamentalist Christian camp for gays.

- So I looked and it had all these rules

that he had posted about the camp.

And we like, read them over a two hour

period because there were
like 83 million of these rules

and so it took us a really
long time to read them.

But we did, and so then we
forwarded them to everybody

we knew because we
thought it was so crazy.

- When I realized what was
happening, that he was being

sent to Love in Action, Love
in Action had actually come to

my private school, I was
in like a Christian school,

and so obviously I was scared because

I knew what they were all about.

- So when I first heard about
Love in Action, all I could

think about was that movie,
But I'm a Cheerleader.

- I was once a gay.

I work for a place called True Directions

who help people like yourself.

- Like a homosexuals anonymous.

- And what I didn't realize is
how accurate that movie was.

- Joining us now is the president of the

world's largest ex-gay
ministry, Exodus International.

Please welcome Alan Chambers to the show.

Thank you so much.

Just talk to me for a second
and explain to me what

the premise is and why
this organization exists.

- For 31 years Exodus has
been helping people who are

affected by what we call
unwanted homosexuality.

It's my story.

I didn't choose to feel
gay, I didn't wake up one

morning and out of life's
great big buffet decide

oh, I think I'll be gay today.

- Okay, what happened?

- It was something that developed

over a long course of time.

I think it's something
that's very complex.

I didn't ask for it, I didn't want

to be that way, and yet
for a period of my life

I felt like this is who I have to be.

You do have to look yourself
in the mirror every morning

and decide this is who I am
and this is who I want to be.

And at a pivotal point
in my life I decided

this isn't who I am and
this isn't who I want to be.

And that's what the ministry
of Exodus is all about.

We're here for people who
want a different alternative.

- And I, see now when you say it that way

I don't understand what the problem is.

- One of the things that
happened in my involvement

with Love in Action
happened when I started

hearing a lot more stories and experiences

of teenagers moving into
homosexual promiscuity,

homosexual behavior, homosexual
pornography on the internet.

And so we thought well we
can maybe offer a day program

where we could begin to
kind of help these kids with

some of the tools that
we knew were valuable.

So we decided to make
a full fledged effort

to start it in June of 2005.

- It's called Refuge,

and it's run by Reverend John Smid

as part of the larger
program, Love in Action.

- I was just so angry that my

parents weren't accepting
who I thought I was

and that they were
sending me to get fixed.

I told all my friends they were
sending me to straight camp.

- His parents, Sharon

and Larry, didn't like it at all.

- I'd had enough.

As a parent, and I felt
that with my beliefs

and with my rights that
this the way it's gonna be.

- Sharon packed
up the family camper,

leaving Pensacola, Florida, driving

Ben 8 hours to Tennessee.

In Memphis they met program
director Reverend Smid.

Married 16 years, he renounced
his own homosexuality

two decades ago after
attending a similar program.

- I find it very sad and
depressing and I think

it's destructive personally
for adults to feel like

they need to go into a program like that.

But it's not my place to
really question that decision.

However, when you are putting
in children under 18, minors,

without their consent then that's just a

whole another level of being wrong.

- That you can take your kid to a camp

and have them shamed, shame therapy.

The idea that you can shame them

into being something that they are not,

it's something that didn't
sit very well with me.

Especially not as a new parent.

Because the last thing I ever

wanted my child to feel was shame.

- At first my mom tried to
convince me that I didn't know

what homosexuality was
and that just because

I act a certain way or if I do

certain things doesn't make me gay.

And she just didn't think that

I understood what homosexuality was.

And my dad for I guess the first week,

he really didn't talk to me.

- I was, just turned 17 when I came out.

When I came out to my
parents it was because they'd

gotten my report card for
the last semester or whatever

and my grades were just terrible.

And they just started
going, like my dad was like

is it drugs, is it alcohol, is it a girl?

And when he said is it a girl I just like,

I rolled my eyes in a kind of funny way

and he just got real quiet and got real

serious and he's like what's
that supposed to mean?

- It was like the week after,
it was the week of exams,

the last day of school,
so it kind of went away

until right after school was over.

And they said that they
wanted to leave it alone

so I wasn't stressed out
for my exams and things.

About that time was when they
brought up, like, therapy.

- At first it seemed
like everything was fine.

They were fairly supportive, fairly,

I think mostly just not
necessarily stunned.

I'm sure they knew.

But they seemed very supportive at first.

That lasted for all of
about three weeks I'd say.

And then they started making

appointments with several counselors.

The last counselor we saw
was actually in St. Louis.

He works for a fundamentalist
church up there.

He told my parents exactly what

they wanted to hear
and recommended refuge.

We only went to see him once.

And that day that he talked
to my parents by themselves

without me in the room, I
didn't know it but they agreed

to send me to Love in Action
while I was out of the room.

And um, got all the paperwork
setup and everything.

I didn't find out I was going until,

it was a month before we left.

- Homosexuality will disappoint you.

Not just because I say so, because

there's a lot of people who say so.

And even if there weren't
any people standing up for

the truth saying that
homosexuality will disappoint you

because we've been there, in God's word

it says this isn't what
I've created you for.

I didn't created you for this.

This is a counterfeit of my best.

I'm not gonna ask for a show of hands

but I bet there's some people in

here whose hearts are sick tonight.

Many of you wouldn't be here tonight

if your hearts weren't sick.

I don't mean you're sick people,

I mean your hearts are sick.

You need some healing.

You need something that
only God can give you.

And I'll be very honest with you.

For the last 15 years I've been coming

to the Exodus Conference, God is here.

He will meet your need if you trust him,

if you ask him to do
something in your life.

- It's June 1st and I'm heading
back from Colorado Springs

going back home and I have a layover

and change of planes in Atlanta.

And I'm walking through
the Atlanta airport

and who is walking
towards me but John Smid.

And I was like, John?

He's like, Peterson?

I'm like, hey how are you?

So I said John, hmm, I've been hearing

stuff that doesn't sound quite right.

I said is it true John
you've got minors in

there who are placed in the
program against their will?

And he said yeah, we do.

Some of them are there against their will.

Their parents placed them
there because they're Christian

parents, they want their
kids to live a Godly life.

And I just said wow, I don't know,

it doesn't seem right to me.

And unbeknownst to me
and I think John even,

at that very moment
Zach had begun his blog.

And all of this stuff was happening,

beginning to happen, in Memphis.

And the protests were beginning to form

and neither one of us knew it.

As we stood there that in just a few days

later that it was all gonna blow up.

- I don't know that I'd ever really

taken the organization very seriously

until I received an email and a subsequent

phone call from E.J. Friedman.

Just as I was getting ready
to leave to go out of town to

visit my parents, and he had
all the information about Zach.

It was so serious and so honest.

And I told Charlotte, my
wife, that we were gonna

have to wait a little while
because I really thought

it was important to get
this piece of information

circulating before I
left to go out of town.

- I went to this blog and
front and center is this story.

And I was like what, what is going on?

And then there's like a link at

the bottom, it went to Chris Davis's blog.

And then there was like
another link to another blog.

And that was the first time
that I realized that this idea

of viral media, uh, because
literally it was like

link, link, link, and the virus
began and it was spreading.

- I was amazed to see these people.

Like, thousands of people
that had come to find out

about this, that genuinely cared

about what was happening to him.

- There had already been
talks of like, protests.

Like, you know, kinda just joking around

but they were like we should
go out there with signs

that say like, Free Zach.

- We started talking about it then

we got really serious about actually

showing some support and going out.

- Yeah.

We were like, who can we call?

- We want to do something.

We're thinking of having a protest.

What do we need to do?

We wanted to get your opinion
because you're an organizer.

I was like, right on, let's do this.

- We just hopped in the car and

we went to the Love in Action site

and we kind of peeked around like

what is this place, what's going on?

And we just went to see what
our options would be with

what we were gonna do and
what the facility looked like.

- We started to get really excited

about this whole situation.

You know it was kind of like
this summer project of purpose.

- So I have here this
first press release that I

wrote entitled Demonstration
Protesting the Refuge Program

that Tries to Convert
Homosexuals to Heterosexuals.

- The only thing that made
it a little not exciting

was that we were really worried.

We were worried that we
couldn't talk to Zach

and we didn't know whether
or not he was okay with this.

- The bottom line was like
when you read the blog

and you understood what
Zach's situation was

he just, I guess was
trusting in unconditional

love from his parents and
so he came out to them.

And their response was to
be like, no you're not and

now you have to do this so that we

can fix what's wrong with you.

- Yeah it was just really weird
having only really recently

met Zach and being
friends with him for such

a short amount of time and
you know, you feel like

I want to get to know somebody.

And then the next day it's like, oh

he's going to be gone because
he's going to be straight now.

It's just weird.

I mean how can you not protest,

someone not being able to be themselves?

- And I don't think anybody
would ever imagine this.

That that voice, that little
tiny voice would be heard.

(soft piano music)

- It's okay, to be gay.

It's okay, to be gay.

It's okay, to be gay.

It's okay, to be gay.

- If you did not choose this program,

we're here to tell you you can be proud.

You can be open and you can
be gay and a good Christian.

And then we say to all of you
kids in there who are in there

against your will, we support you.

There's nothing wrong with you.

- Homosexuality is not a sin.

Homosexuality is not an addiction.

- Sexual identity has been
linked to 30% of teen suicides.

- Why aren't the kids allowed to journal?

Why aren't the kids allowed
to communicate with anyone?

- If you're out and you're
happy clap your hands.

If you're out and you're
happy clap your hands.

If you're out and you're happy
and you're feeling really

snappy, if you're out and
you're happy clap your hands.

- Several dozen protesters
unite today against

what they say is an anti-gay organization.

- We're here to show them that
this isn't the only choice.

Shame and fear is not the only choice.

- He says this
program teaches children,

among other things, they don't

have to live a homosexual lifestyle.

- Homosexuality is not an addiction,

homosexuality is not an addiction,

homosexuality is not an addiction,

we love you just the way you are.

We love you just the way you are.

- And it would
get loud occasionally,

loud enough where we
had to stop for a while

and wait for it to kind of die down.

- I just wanted to uh, thank
all of y'all for coming, okay.

- It looked like
everyone, even the staff

was pretty flustered,
they weren't expecting it

at all I don't think and
they were pretty confused

and a little scared and they
had no idea what was going on,

they didn't know what to do.

- The morning of the first day I went

there were like a few protesters.

It was interesting to see that
there were a few protesters.

But they were actually on the property

and at this point and that
didn't go over well with my dad.

- We're here to present
the gospel of Jesus Christ.

- Okay, so
parents bring their gay teens

in here and you guys tell them what?

- Well we don't believe
that their kids are gay.

We don't believe that
anyone necessarily is gay.

We believe that uh, unhealthy
behavior is a choice.

- We understand you might be scared.

We understand your
parents don't accept you

but they will learn to accept you.

We support you.

- Well we, we were fired up.

Everything was going extremely well.

- You have to
feel like it's an addiction

which is what your website calls it.

- Right well, it just kind

of begs the question,
what if they want this?

- Well if they want that,
all blessings to them.

And that's fine.

We know a lot of people come in here

because their parents make them.

- We knew that
the leader of the organization

was named John Smid and so we had

this kind of chant that we had created.

- Why John Smid?

- Yeah he
was kind of our target.

He was the figurehead of Love in Action

as far as we were concerned.

He was the one we wanted to reach.

He was the one that was responsible.

- You know the megaphone and someone

was calling my name and I
just thought oh my gosh,

where did they find this,
how do they know we're here?

You know I don't know how this happened.

It was a complete mystery to me

as to what was really happening.

Um, and I just thought Lord, I

just need to get through this day.

Shortly after that
someone came in and said

the reason they're here is because

one of the kids that's in the program

put something on his blog yesterday.

And people found out about the blog.

And so we all went to the blog and

read what he had said
and uh, I was just amazed

at what he said and what
was going on outside.

So in many ways I just wanted to kinda

let the street be what it was.

You know I just, internally I thought if

I don't feed it maybe they'll go away.

- Can a person change their sexuality?

Can a gay person become straight?

That question is at the
heart of the discussion today

among members of the American
Psychological Association.

They're asking if psychologists
should do so-called

reparative, or conversion
therapy on gay patients.

- Now this is from the American
Psychological Association,

their statement on sexual orientation.

Quote, research findings
suggest that efforts to repair

homosexuals are nothing
more than social prejudice

garbed in psychological accoutrement.

- Ethically we wish to
do no harm in psychology.

I mean that is one of the major ethical

principles, do no harm.

We've done harm over the years.

We have had aversion therapy,
we've had drug therapy,

we've had shock treatment,
we've done all kinds of things.

For decades psychologists and
psychiatrists were trying to

change sexual orientation
and they didn't succeed.

- Dr. Joseph Nicolosi
is at the center of this.

He's an unorthodox Catholic psychologist.

He runs the National
Association for the Research

and Therapy of Homosexuality.

- Homosexuality as we said
is a gender identity problem.

- Nicolosi
concludes boys can become gay

if they don't get enough
attention from their fathers

or if they were abused as children.

- The guy with a homosexual
problem does not trust men.

When he begins to trust men,
his homosexuality disappears.

- Some research shows that
the effort to change one's

sexual orientation,
even if not successful,

can have benefit for
the person seeking it.

Other research has suggested
that those efforts are harmful.

So I would say that we need
more research about the subject.

- Before at Love in Action,

Ben planned to go to New
York to study journalism.

Now he's part of a
church group and plans to

study psychology in
Memphis with an eye towards

theology and the seminary.

As for wife and children.

- It's possible.

I think I'm attracted to
women enough right now that

it can eventually develop
into a relationship.

I know I'm capable of that.

If I don't get that, that's fine.

Celibacy is an option for me right now.

- The country's
leading psychiatric

associations don't believe in this therapy

and say it's dangerous to attempt.

- They felt more depressed, more anxious.

Some people felt suicidal.

Some people found that
the treatment interfered

with their ability to go on
with their lives as gay people.

So a lot of harm is done by
these kinds of treatments.

- Current psychoanalytical
theory is radically

different than it was back in
the 60s, yet the reparative

therapy movement still
looks back to those origins.

A lot of what reparative therapists taught

deals with stereotypes and not with fact.

And a lot of what reparative therapists

have to say is opinion and not fact.

- What we've found through psychology

and through counseling is that when

individuals are struggling
with homosexuality

or GLBT identity it's usually
because of the messages

and the information they've learned

through growing up in a homophobic
or heteros-exist society.

It's just what we live in.

It's like, we all breathe it in,

it's really impossible to not come up

in this society without having some kind

of negative perspective
about GLBT identity.

- Love in Action focuses
a lot on lifestyle

and sexuality and stuff like that

and acts like all their
is to being a gay person,

being queer, is sex, sex, sex, sex, sex.

And it just completely
factors out that like,

no this is emotion, this is love.

This is how you feel about somebody.

This is the person who you
see yourself being with in

the future, who you see that you're

gonna raise children with.

Who you, you know, you
are, who you connect with.

And it, to take that aspect
of somebody away from them

or for them to try to take
it away from themselves,

yeah that's gonna hurt, it's not

um, it's not the American dream.

- Joining us this morning
are Brandon Tidwell

and Gerrard Wellman, both of whom attended

that program in the past few years.

But they both were adults when they went

and made the decision
on their own to go there

and exited with very
different viewpoints, okay.

So before we begin, let's
start with mutual ground here.

What the program does.

I'm gonna run through the list I saw.

You all tell me if this is right.

No physical contact while you're there.

No campy behavior, not
sure what that means.

No eye contact.

No outside media.

And a moral inventory
of the worst thing that

you did in this area, is that right?

- Absolutely, yes.

- The basis of the program
is the moral inventory.

It's where you're supposed to go

back to some previous sexual encounter.

- You had to pick actually
the worst moral inventory

you had and you had to share that in

front of the audience, telling like your

deepest darkest secrets in front

of this group of people
you didn't even know.

And then they prepped the
audience and told the audience

to not say we love you or
we forgive you but to talk

about how much that experience hurt them.

- It's a conditioning
thing where after so long

it's just, shame, shame
shame, shame with anything.

- They would spin
it so that gay people are

degenerate, that they're
miserable, that they're living

lies, they're lying to
themselves, to their families,

to their friends, that there's no way

they can be happy because they're gay.

- This one guy, he um, was young.

He was one of the youngest people

they ever had at that point.

And one night they had a funeral for him.

It was like this crazy way to try

to make him get scared straight.

So we were all downstairs in the office

and they said okay we're gonna
go up to the meeting room.

And we went up there
and this young man was

already in the room, on a
table, like he was dead.

With this weird music playing and candles.

And we had to stand
around him and talk about

what a shame he didn't
live his life right.

It was like this crazy,
scary thing of like

if you don't change,
you're gonna end up dead.

- I didn't ever get the
feeling that it was safe.

I just got the feeling
that it was just very

controlling and it's very intrusive.

- I talked to my family for the

first time after four or five weeks.

And it was not like they said, okay,

here's the cellphone
or here's the payphone,

knock yourself out,
you've got ten minutes.

You like sat down in the office with a

counselor and you re-introduce yourself.

Hey Melissa, this is your
brother formerly known

as Brandon, now known as Brandon,

your free and straight brother.

- It gets me upset
thinking about it too just,

how crazy some of us got there.

- People were there to change, definitely.

I think most of the people
that were desperate,

ridiculously desperate like this

is the last thing they had left.

- One of my closest friends
there attempted suicide

and um, I found his truck
at the end of the driveway

with all these photographs
of his children.

And he had this note,

he had this note just about
what a horrible person he was

and he gave up, you know
that he's such a bad person.

He took all these pills and
went off into the fields to die.

- We get parents out here who think

that because organizations like

this exist, I can fix my child.

- No, but that's not the case.

You know for me this is
a personal choice for me.

You can't your child.

Your child has to choose the
path that is best for them

and the path that they
want for their life.

And so for me as a
parent of a young child,

if my kid has something going
on in his life that is like,

I need to get this kid into counseling,

I'm gonna put all the resources
out there to make sure

that my kid has the best
resources at his disposal.

- Joe Stark did what

he believed any responsible
Christian parent would do.

In late May, Stark's 16 year old

son Zach told his parents he was gay.

The Starks, devout Christians,

enlisted the help of Love
in Action International.

It's a Memphis based
ministry that provides

prevention and treatment for behaviors

like homosexuality and drug addiction.

But little did the Starks
know that their actions

would create a firestorm
among local homosexuals.

In an exclusive interview with CBN news,

Joe Stark talked about his decision

to enroll Zach in the
Love in Action program

and the controversy that followed.

- We felt very good about
Zach coming here because, um,

to let him see for himself, um,

the destructive lifestyle, what
he has to face in the future

and to give him some options that

society doesn't give him today.

- I think one of the biggest
concerns that we had was

the parents in a way were
becoming victims of this kind of

information that was
going out on behalf of

Love in Action staff
and via their website.

- They would try and give
us figures from like,

statistical reports
about, you know, suicide

or um, AIDS, or just about
how no gay people are ever

together longer than such
and such amount of time,

that it's purely for sex
and there's no love really.

It's all a false sense of love.

They definitely did their
best to spin the homosexual

lifestyle as the least
pleasant thing imaginable.

That's a nice way of putting it.

They spun it as being worse
than death, as living,

as like being dead on earth

basically because it's so terrible.

- Knowing that your son, by the age of 30,

statistics say that he could
either have AIDS or be dead...

- As for Zach
Stark, the jury is still out.

But his father remains steadfast that

he made the right decision for his son.

- To me it's not what's
right and what's left,

it's what's right and what is wrong.

And my wife and I will stand
by that until the day we die.

As far as homosexuality is
not in God's plan, it's wrong.

- A Christian organization
dedicating to equipping

and uniting agencies and
individuals to effectively

communicate the message of
liberation from homosexuality.

I asked you a few minutes
ago and I may have misquoted

when I said, but does this not say

Exodus has the ability to change

a person from being homosexual to not?

- No, not at all.

We can't change people.

- I'm sorry.

We can play the semantic
game all you want,

but if I go and liberate
Iraq, I've changed Iraq.

You're liberating a homosexual,

you're changing a homosexual.

Or am I reading the wrong dictionary?

- Well, I honestly don't
know where you got that from.

- It's from policy on
homosexuality from your website.

- You know

you can be a good Christian
and also be homosexual.

- For the
second week in a row,

gay rights activists
are raising their voices

in front of Love in Action's new

recovery treatment center in Raleigh.

- What
does love in action look like?

This is what love in action looks like.

- Ultimately we
decided we would do this.

We were gonna go there every single day

that he had to be in the
program in order to support him.

- Make sure to be here
Monday morning, 8:30,

but try and come back
every morning if you can.

- As far as
protests, as far as everything

got to be a lot more organized.

There was a lot more
thought process behind us.

- We really like, that's when
we got in like serious mode.

You know we stayed up for
like two days straight.

We were up until like five a.m.

We had mothers, fathers, we had doctors,

we had psychologists, we had teachers,

we had lawyers, we had you know, kids.

- We want people to make informed choices

about what they're gonna
do with their lives.

We don't want people to
be shamed into changing

who they are for the
sake of an organization.

- The big day when there

was a love of press there it was

actually because Love in Action
called a press conference.

- Up until this point, other than

small interactions with
them at their facilities

we had no real communication with them.

So we didn't really know, you know,

it's like are they just
not gonna handle this?

Are they just ignoring it?

Because we're not going anywhere.

- We're here to show them that
somebody cares about them.

We're here to show them that
this isn't their only choice.

Shame and fear is not the only choice.

- While police stayed outside

to make sure the protest stayed peaceful,

inside the facility sanctuary
the executive director

of Love in Action and a
panel of supporters held a

press conference to tell their
side and answer questions.

- These behaviors can
successfully be treated

through conventional
methods of addiction therapy

which include a spiritual
model of treatment.

- When we are trying to
help someone reorient their

behaviors and the way that
they think about themselves,

there are therapeutic
techniques and there are ways

in which we can assist
that awareness process.

Some people refer to that as brainwashing.

I think it's a semantics question.

- It's all about managing
your simple desires.

That's the whole point
of the Christian life is

managing what you want to do based

on what is appropriate for you to do.

- And to me that's a real deception.

I mean that is a way to shame people

and to spread self hatred.

- When you ask someone to live in a lie,

it's a dangerous, dangerous
slope that you're running down.

You know you can be a

good Christian and also be homosexual.

- We also sort of came
out with a consensus

about how we would conduct
ourselves in these protests.

How we would conduct ourselves to people,

to staff members, and sort of
our approach was one of love.

- The next day I remember driving through

and I heard something different.

I heard these people in
the street saying to us

as we left, God loves you, God loves you.

And I just felt a complete shift in the

way I perceived the entire process.

So for the next week and
a half, every time I would

come to work or leave,
instead of feeling frustrated

or angry or embarrassed, I felt

loved and cared for by a God that loves me

using whatever vehicle he
chose to use to tell me that.

- Zach originally was only
gonna be there for two weeks.

That turned into eight weeks.

A lot of people were like, how can

we support you, how can we help?

And at first we didn't know how.

But then we knew we wanted
to go to Washington D.C.

And meet with national queer
rights GLBT organizations

to get advice, to get help.

Because we knew at a certain
point there was this end.

Eight weeks, Zach was gonna get out.

And we wanted to know how to handle that.

- As this hit the media
the way that it did,

I felt concerned about how this
could impact Love in Action.

- At this point the New York
Times article was hitting.

CNN, Good Morning America,
there had been talks of Oprah,

maybe doing a show, all
kinds of rumors at this point

because it seemed like
this was never gonna stop.

It had gotten so big.

- Critics of a local
ministry that claims to curb

homosexual feelings are
feeling the national spotlight.

Action News 5's George Brown is live

at the Love in Action Headquarters.

George, good evening.

- Well Ursula the demonstrators
today say they basically

are here today to show their support

for those who are enrolled in
the Love in Action program.

We're gonna pan over and
show you this demonstration

that started up again
about half an hour again.

This is one that has happened
many times by this group,

one that has gotten attention after a

teenager blogged that he'd
been forced into the program.

Now the attention is coming from

international TV news channels.

- Should a child,
should a teenager, should

anyone be forced into the program?

By their parents, just even coerced?

- We respect a parent's responsibility

to raise their child as they see fit.

- Parents should not feel forced.

Parents felt shamed by the
church to do this and I think

it's unfortunate that they had

to make the decision they made.

It's very dangerous.

- Teens don't always want to do things.

I mean, should teens not be allowed to go

to school because they
don't want to go to school?

Of course not.

- Wow, again this is

a debate that's gonna go on and on.

And Zach as we say is
getting out tomorrow.

- I will say that I was proud
that you guys were out here

portraying a great image
of love and acceptance

which is what I think it most important

for the people inside those walls.

There's a lot of confusion,
there's a lot of shame,

there's a lot of guilt that
happens inside those walls

and it's an unfortunate
reality, but it is happening.

- I want him to know that people

support him and everybody cares a lot.

And that we're gonna be there
for him when he gets out.

Hopefully he'll still be the
Zach that I know and love

but if he's not I'm gonna
love him just the same.

- I'm out here to support my gay daughter

because if she doesn't have
the support of her parents

who brought her into this
world, who are supposed to love

her unconditionally, who can
she count on in this world?

How can she love herself if I

can't love her unconditionally?

- You're perfect because
you're intrinsically flawed

like everyone else in the world and

you're you, and I'm glad you're you.

And I'm sorry they ever put you in there.

Forgive them for they
know not what they do.

- I still don't understand a
lot of things about my faith

and about being gay but
I knew that I was tired

of being told that I
was bad and I was wrong

and I was evil and corrupt because

simply I had an attraction to other men.

- I graduated from the program.

Went on, you know, started my ex-gay life.

And then literally woke up
one day and I was in bed

and I was like, what
the hell are you doing?

This is crazy.

There's nothing wrong with you.

Sure, things need to be changed,

we all need change, but the
gay thing is not your problem.

And that's when I started
to break to break free.

- Rarely was anybody successful
that left the program.

Because it was just impossible
to replicate what was

happening inside of those four

walls in any other environment.

As I began to engage, get a
job, get back into society,

I realized how much damage
that they had done in

those three months and it
took me years to unfold that.

- When I woke up that day
I was like, okay, I'm gay.

Then I was like, what does that even mean?

I don't even know.

I mean, all that I knew
about gay was all the

negative stereotypes that I
learned from all those years.

And so I was like, do I go to a gay club?

I'll never forget the
first time I took communion

with these gay Christians,
I really thought

that I was like, selling
my soul to the devil.

I was like, oh I'm
crossing a line right now.

- You got back home and nothing
changed with your parents

in that sense of their
acceptance of who you are?

- No.

What did change though
is now they had learned

all the tools they needed
from Love in Action

to continue what they did there at home.

- And what's that?

They learned more hate?

- Not more hate, more ways
of trying to internalize

this homophobia, trying to make me feel

guilty and ashamed of who I was.

My mom kind of took it
on herself to do what

the program couldn't, I guess, and she

just got real antagonistic
and real hateful

toward me on an escalating scale.

I told my mom I was gonna
be leaving and she came down

and in a fit of rage
just kind of beat me into

a corner of my room and was
just shouting and yelling

and hateful things, just terrible.

My dad had to physically pull
my mom off of me and pull

her out of my room so that I could run out

and get in my car, lock
myself in my car, 'cause he

wasn't able to hold onto her for very long

and she chased me out to my
car and was beating on my

car door as I was pulling
out of the driveway.

And I had to like almost
run over her to get out.

And that was when I moved out.

(melancholy music)

- I remember uh, not really knowing

whether the protests ended or not.

There were so many things
that were still happening.

The emails escalated,
the whole media frenzy,

and the internet expanse of
information was pretty profound

in the way that it was
impacting me every day.

- A Memphis based group
that claims to teach

young people to overcome homosexuality

through Christian principles is being

ordered by the state to shut down.

- Why are they picking on Love in Action?

- This letter from the
Department of Health

says the organization may
be operating illegally.

Fox 13's Curtis Jay is live
in the newsroom with more.

- Yeah Steve, this is the
letter the state of Tennessee

sent Love in Action saying
that it is operating illegally,

it is in violation of a state law.

- Every day was another day
of kind of battling something.

- Before
today's deadline the state

of Tennessee gave Love in
Action organizers three options.

Change their mission, get a state

mental health license, or shut down.

The group answered back by filing

a federal lawsuit against the state.

- Attorney Nate Kellum

says government has no right
to regulate Love in Action.

- It's just repugnant for
a faith based institution,

a Christian ministry, to come under

the regulation of the state.

- The ministry
believes the state's action

not only violates the group's
Constitutional freedoms,

they also lost $80,000 in lost enrollment.

But reporters weren't the only ones

taking notes at today's news conference.

- What about the former

clients that say that there has been

damage done through the
practices at Love in Action?

- I'm not aware of any such allegations.

And I know that the people that

get help at the Love in
Action are very appreciative.

Thank you.

- What about the major
medical health thing?

Psychological associations
and their statements?

Are you aware of those statements?

- I'm not aware of any such statements.

- When the protests and the
subsequent events took place

in 2005 something pretty significant

started happening in me.

I recognized I started
experiencing a conflict

with Love in Action and where I was going.

And that conflict became
really a challenge for me

to the point where I no longer

was a fit to remain at Love in Action.

Many times the people that I've
known or churches I've been

a part of didn't really
have an interest or desire

to reach the gay community
with a message of hope

and a relationship with Christ.

And I'm not talking about
change from homosexuality

I'm just talking about reaching people

with the message of the gospel.

That started to just burn within me,

just a desire to kind
of completely change my

whole burden in terms of
response to homosexuality.

And so as a result of that
I did some thinking and

evaluating and compiled an apology.

And it basically approached the

issue of the teenage refuge program.

It also involved my years
at Exodus International

and some things that I
really needed to kind of

own up to that I thought would be helpful.

So the apology I said if
there's anything that I've done

as the leader of these
ministries or as a person

that has offended you or
hurt you, please contact me.

Today I may be in a better position

because my heart is in a different place.

- Well we're back and that was
a clip from the documentary

This is What Love in Action
looks like, which focuses

on converting gays to become straight.

John Smid was the man you
saw at the end of that clip

and a leader in the
conversion therapy movement.

But in a blog posting just
over a week ago, Smid said

that the therapy does not
work, even going so far

as to say he has never met a man

who experienced change from
homosexual to heterosexual.

- I mean, of course I
wish it didn't happen

and it was really sad, um, coming

out and that happening.

I mean, I do plan on continuing like,

pursuing homosexual relationships.

I haven't changed my mind
because of anything that happened

to me that homosexuality
is bad and that I want

to suppress those emotions or those

feelings or anything like that.

Well right now I'm just going to college.

I mean, my life right
now, I just work a lot.

So it's more, I guess, normal.

I can hang out with the friends
I want to hang out with.

Like, with my parents, if we don't talk

about the issue then it's not an issue.

So I mean it's kind of to where
they're leaving it up to me.

- It's been one year since a

mid-south teenager's blog
brought the spotlight

on a program called Love in Action.

- Lance Carroll went

though the refuge program last summer.

He says he was told to be
ashamed of his homosexuality.

The only thing that got him through,

he says, were the protesters outside.

- I believe it's wrong that
these people should be allowed

to prey on teenagers, who
are in their formative years.

I came back for the one
year protest hoping maybe

to possibly you know,
kind of, well in a selfish

way bring things to a closure for me.

I mean, just to be able
to go back there and not

have to be in that environment
that I was for so long.

But also to, you know, help raise

awareness that this is wrong.

And it should not be
able to force people into

any type of program against their will.

- I think that they have to
realize, parents who realize

that if the child is wanting to do it,

isn't willing to do
it, then it's not going

to go they way they want it to.

Some people want to say well, you know,

drug addicts sometimes you have
to force to go into therapy.

But on the subject of homosexuality I

don't feel that's a good idea.

- Realistically I'd like to see it so that

parents can't force
their kids to go there.

I mean, if you're a thirty
something you know, adult

who wants to waste their
money and their time

doing this, that's your business.

You can go do it.

It's your body, it's your soul,

it's your mind, go for it.

But kids who are forced to
go there is another story.

I don't think that's right at all.

- For a young person, that
critical part of their life

when they are just trying
to figure out who they are,

to be told that there's
something fundamentally wrong

with them that even God finds offensive,

I can't imagine any good coming from that.

And I really believe that
if a parent knew the sort of

damage they were doing to their kid,

they would pull their kid out
of that program immediately.

- Today marks an important
moment in the movement

to reconcile ex-gays
with the Christian faith.

Two years ago I stood here
with a handful of brave souls,

many who are here today, to
declare a message of hope.

That God loves gay men
and women and does not

demand us to change our identity.

As an ex-gay survivor and a
former client of Love in Action,

I know how important
this simple message is.

I walked out of that
experience really feeling

like I had done the right thing.

That it was not about Zach,
it was about the tons of kids

like Zach and the people
like myself who even

went voluntarily, that if
you're a person of faith

you don't have to abandon your faith

in order to be real and true to yourself.

That there is another way.

I hope to be a voice
among many who are calling

for God's love and acceptance
to prevail in this struggle.

Today we also celebrate a milestone,

the closing of the
refuge program for teens.

(soft piano music)

- We didn't change history
but we changed that history.

There's no refuge program anymore

And sure there are hundreds
of like minded programs

opening all over Alaskan Sarah Palin,

but in the meantime.

- It was time that people
sort of stood up and if

not stopped it, at least
made people aware of what

was really happening there.

And I think it took this
kind of focused, concentrated

effort to get people to
pay attention and say

you know, I'm a good Christian,

I don't even think it's right to be gay,

but I don't think you
should shame a child.

I don't think that shame is something that

we want to make our children feel.

That doesn't make them
healthy, that doesn't make

them happy, that's not going

to make the world a better place.

- So there is public awareness
and even that is a success.

Even the idea that, you know,
when other programs like

this pop up there will be people

that have heard of it
before, know what happened

here in Memphis, know
what's happened in the past,

and have information to go on in starting

their own campaign or fighting

against it in their own ways.

So we won.

- It only takes one person.

If one person can be
convinced, if you're able to

educate one person then
all of it mattered.

But accepting that it
may only be one person

is the hardest part that
many of us have to face.

It might only be one person.

One person's a whole lot.

Look what one person can do.

(uplifting music)