All language subtitles for The way down S01E02_English

[waves crashing]

["Sharp Dressed Man"
by ZZ Top playing]

♪♪♪

♪ Clean shirt ♪

♪ New shoes ♪

♪ And I don't know
where I am goin' to ♪

♪ Silk suit...♪

I've known Joe

since I was 16 years old,

and he was 21 years old
or something like that.

We met in acting class.

♪ Every girl crazy
'bout a sharp-dressed man ♪

We were in acting class
together for

I would say six years total,

and we used to rehearse
50 hours a week,

every single day.

Look what I found.
Tarzan.

- Hi, Joe, how are you?
- I'm fine, how are you?

[Antonio] He was
"Tarzan in Manhattan."

It was a TV movie
of the week.

[Tarzan yell]

[Antonio]
He was 6'2", 6'3".

Blue eyes, gorgeous skin,
gorgeous teeth.

Stunning.

Back then he would
walk into a room

and women would
just fall all over him.

- Okay. Here we go.
- What are we talking about?

Well, let's just
make it up here.

[Natasha]
When he met Gwen,

I feel like
he won the lottery,

and he also
was cast in her production.

She honed in on him,

he saw an opportunity in her,
and it was a match made in--

in Revenant Fellowship heaven.

[theme music playing]

God has taken
86 pounds off of me.

[woman]
I have lost 53 pounds.

I have lost 50 pounds
just following my wife.

She has lost 178.

I had sleep apnea.
I had high blood pressure.

I had acid reflux.

I'm not on any
medications anymore.

I don't have to use
a machine to breathe at night.

I'm just free.

[applause]

I've always looked
for God's guidance,

and so apparently
He was able to use me.

Even at a young age,
I adored Him.

And so, He used me,

and what I do
in this program

is teach people how to stop

bowing down
to the refrigerator

and how to bow back down
to Him.

We just thank you for
this teaching

that has given us freedom

and kept our weight off
all this time, God.

[interviewer]
Do you think it's appropriate

for you to use the Holocaust...

- I believe that--
- ...to promote

- your weight loss plan?
- I can give--I can give you--

Okay. That--that's enough.
I think--let's just--

- Let's go. Let's go.
- Okay.

[Gwen] What does
the state of the church

have to do with weight loss?

The answer is everything.

I've known for some time
that resistance

to doing the will of God
was increasing in the church,

but we're headed for trouble,

and someone has got to
warn the people.

♪♪♪

[Natasha]
Say hello, Joe.

Hello, Joe.

[Natasha]
Joe was very attractive,

and his attitude
that he didn't want you

made you more interested.

From 1984,
Joe and I dated on and off.

There were red flags
all over the place,

but when you see somebody
who's so good-looking

and you want to be
with them,

you push away the red flags.

I was young, you know,
and I thought

that's what life was,

but life is not looks.

And that's a lesson for me,

and it's also a lesson
for Gwen. [chuckles]

Joe was born in San Diego

and spent most of his life
in California.

His mom married a very wealthy
CEO of Wells Fargo Bank,

and he lived
in Newport Beach,

and his stepdad had
race cars and a plane,

and he was exposed to
the rich lifestyle.

And he also dated women

that could fulfill
his lifestyle needs.

[Antonio]
There was a lady in our class,

Dorrie Forstmann was her name.
I remember her.

Tall blonde,
really beautiful lady,

and she was in her 50s.

I know that he
moved into her house.

And she had bought him
a Harley-Davidson.

Now, you've got to remember,
he's not working.

I don't even actually know

how he paid
for his acting classes.

She might have paid for them.

And something happened,
so she--

either he cheated on her
or something,

but she kicked him out

and lit that
Harley-Davidson on fire.

And then he moved on
to another one.

And he didn't get his own place

and start working at a job.

He moved into
somebody else's place.

[Natasha]
He bought a piece of land

in the desert
next to Palmdale.

He lived in a double-wide
mobile home,

smoked a lot of pot
and took a lot of drugs.

He's had drug problems
since he was 14, he said.

He was a recluse.

He's evaded taxes.
I mean,

his whole life is how to evade
paying anything,

but having a lifestyle of fun

and doing
what he likes to do,

mostly his hobbies--
flying, falconry.

In 2007, I cut off
all communication with him

and I was done,
until December of 2008.

He called me up.

At that age, my biological
clock was ticking,

and I still had hope,
maybe, for him.

I fell for him again.

♪ Honeysuckle, honeydew,
double scoop of love ♪

♪ These are things
our little girl is made of ♪

My daughter was born on
November 29, 2010.

[voice breaking] That's
the best day of my life.

That's the best day of my life.

[Joe]
Oh, sweetheart, I love you.

- Miss you.
- You know I love you, right?

[baby exclaims]

- I love you, too.
- And you're my mama.

[Antonio]
She was so excited about

the prospect
of living with him,

and she was happy
when they moved to Nashville.

She was like, "Oh, we gotta
get more furniture and stuff,

"but it's gonna be great.

And Joe's pursuing
his country music career."

I'm thinking,
when did he start that?

♪♪♪

♪ The soul of my father ♪

♪ Is alive inside of me ♪

[Natasha]
Our agreement was that

he would attempt
his music career

until our daughter was
of kindergarten age,

and at that point,
we would relocate to Chicago

where I have a home,

I have 30 relatives
within a 4-mile radius,

where I can find work,
where he could find work.

When it came time to move,

he didn't want to move.
He didn't want to work.

And in 2015,

in order stop me from
taking our daughter to Chicago,

he filed with the police
and the children's department

that I sexually abused
our 4-year-old daughter.

And our little girl watched
as the police took me away.

I was just thinking
on the ride in the car, like,

"How could this
be happening to me?"

They interviewed
with many doctors,

the child, and they
found out that he was lying.

She's so loving and protective
of her daughter.

So, for him to do that,

I don't think
that's a good person.

That's not...

a religious person.
[chuckles]

That's not a spiritual person.

That's not a person
with a conscience.

[Natasha] Since that day,
he never looked at me

in my eyes again.

He was a handyman
and belonged to

a networking group locally

that turned him
onto the church,

and then he met

Gwen Shamblin.

She's a very wealthy woman,
and so this was

a huge opportunity for him.

[Joe]
Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

- [cheering and applause]
- We love you.

We love you.

[Terasee Morris] He wants
to become a country music star.

They have a recording studio

in Remnant Fellowship.

So, of course
he would marry Gwen!

♪♪♪

[Joe]
♪ You're a carousel ♪

♪ You're a wishing well ♪

♪ And you light me up ♪

♪ When you ring my bell ♪

I really feel that he wasn't
so much in love with her

as he was charming her
to get what he wanted.

Because it was
all about his music career.

And now that didn't happen,

so now he's got another career.

Hey, everybody.
We want to welcome you

to "Life with Gwen and Joe."

I'm Joe. This is Gwen.

And we're here for
another exciting show.

What are we gonna
talk about today, darling?

- Well, today--
- [Natasha] To hear him talking

on his show,
"Life with Gwen and Joe"

like he is some preacher
with abundance of this

greatness in his life
and some Gandhi,

it was just mind-boggling.

God--God is
the ultimate architect,

the ultimate orchestrator
of--of--

of the heart and the mind.

When I saw the tapes
of him and Gwen,

I was rolling down laughing,

because he's acting
like he's sincere,

like he's this Bible thumper,
and he's not.

He's playing a part,
and it's for money.

[laughs]

Are you laughing
with me or at me?

[Gina Graves]
He's hardly been in the church.

He doesn't know anything
about Weigh Down or,

you know, all of that.

And now all of a sudden,
he's a leader?

I mean, it's just a sham

is what they say.
It's just a sham.

I am the luckiest guy
in the world, aren't I?

- [laughs] I'm the luckiest.
- [cheers and applause]

- I'm the luckiest.
- I love you.

Oh, I love you.

I had a lot of respect
for Gwen,

and I enjoyed Gwen's services.
I learned from it.

But after Joe Lara
come into the picture,

her sermons got real short,

and they would take vacations.

She was doing everything
she could

to keep Joe happy,
and to my knowledge,

that's what she's still doing.

To me, Joe Lara

is a bought-and-paid-for-
by-Gwen-Shamblin escort.

It's plain as it gets.

He was flat broke,

and he seen an opportunity
and he took it.

You can't blame him.

I don't blame him, you know?

But, it is what it is.

[Rev. Rafael Martinez]
One of the most amazing things

about Gwen Shamblin

is her perfect ability

to completely control
her history

and act as if David Shamblin,

her husband of 40 years,
never existed.

[Helen Byrd]
I just don't understand

how you can get divorced
and then, like,

before the ink is dry,
you're engaged.

Get the fuck
outta here with that. Okay?

Just--just--just--

miss me completely,
like the broad side of a bus.

Just miss me completely
with that.

[Richard Morris]
All I know about David Shamblin,

when Gwen first started doing

the Weigh Down Workshop
tapes back in the late '90s,

he was very visible.

He was very much
a part of it.

He even came out
for curtain calls

at the end
of some of her videos.

But I began to notice
that he never made

an appearance
there at the church.

David Shamblin
has a master's in divinity.

That's what pastors do to
become prepared for ministry.

He was one of
the original eight,

that small group
that started Remnant.

But he quickly
withdrew from it

because he was totally
disenchanted with the notion

that his wife was
making money with religion.

[Helen] David was
kind of hidden from view.

Gwen would say that she,

you know, she loved him
and she served him

and everything else
like that,

but he would not come
to the festivals.

He didn't come to church.

He definitely
didn't represent everything

that Gwen was saying was
right or righteous

because, you know,
he was overweight.

So how could he be right or
righteous if he's overweight?

[Natasha] David Shamblin
did not want a divorce.

He was begging his wife
to stay in the marriage,

and he was offering her
more money,

and she had to give up
a lot of her assets

and her money to marry Joe.

[Megan Cox] I think she thought
that was her major coup.

Now she's out there
with a husband

who supports her 100 percent.

Does he really?
I don't know. I mean,

he's an actor.
He can play the part.

He can be exactly
what she needs him to be.

But, I mean, at what cost
for her, though, you know?

She went against everything
she's always said to get that.

A lot of people have come from

what we'd call
dysfunctional homes,

but now's our chance
in this generation

to stop these
generational curses

and get in there
and realize that,

you know,
we've got to go for it.

There's obviously cases
of divorce that,

you know, God allows
as much as he hates it.

[Gina]
She has not let any woman

divorce their husband
ever in that place,

and all of us women that had
biblical authority, you know--

infidelity--we couldn't.

All those years we couldn't.

[Helen] All of those years

you have told people to
suffer through their marriage,

but then
whenever the spirit hits you,

you done had
a whole change of heart.

Well, now it's okay
to get divorced.

It's okay now.
Now it's okay. Yeah, right.

Uh-huh. Miss me.

[Bob]
God come off his throne,

allowed Gwen to get a divorce,

and both my boys called me

and said, "Dad, you better
get your boots on,

'cause you gonna
be getting a divorce, too."

And I said, "What are y'all
talking about?"

And, uh, they said,
"If Gwen got a divorce,

"Mom's gonna get
a divorce too,

'cause she gotta be
just like Gwen."

And here's where we are today.

I'm originally from Oklahoma.

I was born and bred a cowboy.

We moved here,
be nine years in December,

when I bought the place.

We joined
Remnant Fellowship in 2002.

First, Sherry, my wife,

she was taking
Weigh Down classes,

and then she decided
she wanted to join the church.

Well, I was raised Baptist,
ma'am,

and this is Remnant Fellowship.

I'm a Choctaw
and Cherokee Indian.

I'm spiritual,
but I'm not religious.

But she said, "If you'll
move me to Tennessee,

I'll never ask
for nothing else."

And I said,
"Do you promise?"

Truth of the matter is,
Sherry got a taste

of the society life
up there at Ashlawn.

Her expectations of a husband
was not me, not anymore.

She left the 13th day
of January.

I haven't seen
or talked to her.

I sent her a text
on Valentine's Day, told her

[voice breaking]
I loved her, I always would.

But I knew it was over.

So, we're in a divorce case.

We had a mediation,

and I offered her
a good settlement.

She come back
and upped it $50,000,

and I knew then,
somebody is backing her,

'cause she did not have
that kind of money.

I don't have
that kind of money.

At my age, I am not able
to go get a job.

I turned 68 couple weeks ago.

I have two titanium knees,
I have a welded wrist,

and I've been battling
throat cancer

for the last seven years,
and I'm a diabetic.

So, who is gonna hire
a man like that?

We are a blessed group
of people

to be able to worship God
as we do, aren't we?

- It's amazing.
- [cheers and applause]

[Bob]
To me, the devil is a myth,

but I've met Gwen Shamblin,
and she's real.

Gwen made the statement

that if you want to
control anyone,

you take away
the thing they love the most.

Sherry knows how much I love
this place.

It's no secret.

I have put my heart,
and all my money

and my life into this place.

I built it from scratch.

And Joe Lara
made the statement, he said,

"I would love to have this."

And when
I heard him say that,

all I could say was,
"Oh, hell.

Something's fixin' to happen."

I'm ready to sell,
but I'm not gonna lose my place

to people that want it
for nothing.

I've worked too hard,

and I will fight
to my last breath.

♪ Oh, foggy days ♪

♪ My mind's in a haze ♪

Hey, guys. My name
is Michael Shamblin,

and I'm standing here
with a few very special people

that I'm going
to introduce to you.

Standing to my right
right here

is my lovely wife,
Erin Shamblin,

and standing next to her
is my sister,

Michelle
Elizabeth Shamblin.

And standing next to her is
my brother-in-law,

Brandon Hannah.

Michael Shamblin
and Elizabeth Hannah

can do no wrong.

And they are the prince
and the princess of Remnant,

the golden children.

They have all the wisdom,

all knowledge,
and all gifting,

and they are second
in command in hierarchy

over any other leader.
That's a fact.

Everything has got to be
about God first.

If you will seek first
the relationship with Him,

then everything will be
added to you as well.

[Jessica Cox] Elizabeth
was the youth group leader.

Used to be super approachable,

super friendly, down to earth.

I loved her when I was a kid.

[Rachel Phillips] She was
always real lively, you know?

A lot like her mom.

Over the years, she's allowed

the mentality of Remnant

to really take over her

and not allow her to process

the things
that have happened to her.

Don't you want kids
like this?

- Don't you want--
- [applause starting]

Yes. Don't you want...

[Helen]
There is a concerted effort

to sort of hide things

so that you can keep
that façade of,

"Oh, this the most
perfect place on earth,

and this is God's kingdom."

And so when Elizabeth,
you know, she lost a child,

that wasn't really talked about.

- ♪♪♪
- [distant siren wailing]

[Gina] A lot of prayer
requests started going out

through text and tweets,

"Please pray for Baby Henley.

They're rushing him
to the hospital."

No one ever really
acknowledged that he died.

I mean, I think, like,
word of mouth kind of spread,

but there wasn't any, like,
official anything

from Gwen or anybody.

[Rachel]
He died in his sleep.

He was five months old.

But the way that Remnant
works when it comes to death

is you don't--
you don't grieve.

You don't--you move on.

[Gina] The next morning
we all go into church,

and it was like walking
into a funeral home,

and we didn't know how to--
how do we deal with this?

You know, because Gwen,
that's all she talked about

was all these blessings
from God

if you obey and if
you're in the true church.

And now the leader's grandson
has just died.

And if anything bad
ever happened to the church,

God was judging us,
so everybody

was looking
at themselves going,

"Was it me?
Did I cause this?"

I mean, this is just how--
the depths of

where she had us
in our walk with God.

And then the next thing was

"We're not gonna talk
about this anymore."

They knew people were gonna
be questioning,

"What's going on here?
Why would this be happening?

"God's judging us somehow,

and if it's not us,
is it them?"

So they were shutting that
all down.

Well, then me and my husband
got a call

from someone in the leadership

saying we needed to come in
for a "family checkup,"

under the pretense of we know
that the Shamblin-Hannah family

is not being judged by God,

and so, therefore, it has
to be someone in the church.

And so we're bringing in
the "strugglers"

to just assess how
you're doing

because God's bringing
judgment on this church,

and we want to know
where it's coming from.

♪♪♪

[Rachel]
Since that happened,

whenever I'd see
a picture of Elizabeth,

she looked like she was
playing a part,

and it looks like
it's wearing on her.

I mean, she's rail thin,
her eyes are sunken.

She looks sad.

I couldn't even imagine
if I lost one of my children,

and to have to act
like nothing happened,

and to not be able
to grieve that child.

[Elizabeth]
This is the true church,

and that is because
you are the genuine article,

and that's the difference.

I mean, when I was in school,
all the guys

could not wait to go to college
in some distant place,

and I just wanted
to stay here.

I wanted to be near you,

but that was because
of the fruit

that was coming
from your life, and...

I don't know of another
preacher's child that can say

that their parent,
who is a preacher,

lives out what they preach,
and I can.

- I can say that.
- Well, and I'm not saying--

there may be some out there,
but the thing--I pray--

Thank you for that.
I appreciate that. Thank you.

- [applause]
- Thank you.

When Gwen steps down,

the reins will got
to Elizabeth and not Michael,

although Michael is the oldest.

But, um...

Michael doesn't want it.

It's time for
people our age to quit--

don't be like everybody else.

Why are you trying to just

join the crowd
of rebellious kids?

They're gonna
be nowhere, and in five years,

they're gonna be depressed,
overweight,

their marriages
are gonna fall apart,

if they even get married.
They're gonna get divorced.

All of these horrible things
are happening right now,

and it's just getting worse,
so you've got to start over.

We're starting a new trend.
And that trend is obedience.

[Terasee] In the beginning
when we first got

introduced to Michael
through Gwen's videos,

he had so much personality.

He was effervescent.
He was happy.

You could tell he was happy,

and now, he hardly says a word.

♪ Walking past
the blocks of stone ♪

♪ Where I used
to call my home ♪

♪ Now we're free
to sing in our own way.

Michael is
like a music machine.

I would call him like
a Mozart.

He's constantly got music
going in his head.

I think
if Michael had a choice

and his mother wasn't
so prominent

and had this huge empire,

he would not be a part of it.

I don't believe
that he would be.

♪♪♪

♪ It's a very big world ♪

♪ I have to say ♪

♪ And it's not too hard
to be carried away ♪

[Autumn Williamson]
Michael left the church

a few different times.

He was the lead musician,
so he would sing

all of the songs,
record everything.

He was the person
that orchestrated

the musicals that we had.

He was just generally
the music man in that church.

So when he left, I just
kind of wondered what it was.

[Gina]
Gwen had said that he wanted

to get this record deal,

and she wanted him
to use his gift in the church,

and he left the church,
and when he came back,

he was just different.
He seemed angry.

And he would show up
for church with sunglasses on,

messed-up hair,
crumpled clothes,

and if his glasses came off,
bloodshot eyes.

He looked like he'd been

sleeping on the streets
for three days.

He was just a mess.

Like, what is going on
with Michael Shamblin?

Michael suffers
with depression,

and that's "not allowed"
at Remnant Fellowship.

You are not allowed
to be depressed.

He's very like his father.

Michael goes up and down
in his weight,

and when he is overweight,

he is not on the stage

except to do his own songs.

And then once he finishes
his music,

he's gone, he's off the stage.

So there's a lot of things

that are
in Michael's life that

aren't according to
Remnant Fellowship philosophy.

And so Gwen cannot use him
as a model,

and that's
where the problem is.

Because she would love
to put Michael up front,

but she can't.

After I had left, I had
a phone call from someone who

our families were friends
when I was within Remnant,

and, um, he had told me

Michael... [sighs]
had been having affairs

with girls within Remnant,

waitresses at J. Alexander's,

one of their
favorite restaurants.

He confessed that the songs
that he wrote

for Remnant were actually

songs about
fighting against Remnant.

He's definitely a tortured soul.

♪♪♪

["Sarah"] I remember vividly
one of the evenings

where my ex-husband and I
were dancing

on the main floor
after a wedding.

I remember the dress
I was wearing,

and I remember the looks.

That look that undresses you.

That was the look that
I remember Michael giving.

And I remember looking back

and thinking,
"This is the way out.

This is the way."

I was one of the few
that ended up learning about

the Weigh Down Workshop

after having joined
Remnant Fellowship.

However, I didn't realize how
intertwined the two were.

I lived with disordered eating

throughout my entire
adolescent years

in high school
and college years.

If I continued to practice
the teachings

of Remnant Fellowship,

I knew I was going to die.

I was told by Gwen
that if I were to leave,

that every dollar
was gonna be used

in court proceedings
to support my ex

to fight for full custody
of my child.

I knew, having suffered once
in trying to exit

and being unsuccessful,

I knew it was going to have to
take something grand,

something big,
something tangible.

Something that I could use.

Something that would
prevent Gwen

from taking a step forward,

and that was gonna be
her own child.

It wasn't long after
that we met.

We met privately.

Knowing he was
constantly monitored,

the messages were kept short.

Basically,
"I want to see you."

"Let's meet."
"When can we meet?"

He always brought over
a bottle of Jack Daniels

and had already
been consuming alcohol.

It was always evident.

You could see the pain
in his eyes

as he revealed
the long suffering

that he had endured
because of his mom.

The fact that he was
in a loveless marriage...

and had to perform his
own duties to please his mom.

He told me
that he was so angry

he would shoot at the church
at night sometimes.

I remember telling myself,
"I hope my child

is never in that place
for the day that he loses it."

When I felt strong enough
to leave,

I texted Michael, and I said,
"You tell your mom to stop

"with the legal fight.

Otherwise
everything comes out."

Things began to turn.

Fortunately,
after a long battle,

now I have full custody.

I do take ownership
in the fact

that I took part
in his vulnerability,

in his pain,

but when I thought
about the pain

that his mom has created
for hundreds,

that couldn't even compare.

Jackson texted me
about two weeks ago now.

He said he wanted
to meet for coffee,

and so I agreed to meet
with him.

And he was pretty quick.

Pretty early in
the conversation he informed me

that he was going
to propose to my daughter.

You know, we knew
it was coming eventually.

We knew they'd get married
and, you know, we--

still, it doesn't feel good.

I mean, you can know
someone's dying

and still not be happy
when they do.

And in addition to that,

it started to become
more clear

that we weren't going
to be involved

in the wedding.

We started texting
with our daughter,

and in those text messages,
we were pretty explicit

about, you know, we're
not gonna go to a wedding

that's in the cult building.

We're not gonna go to a wedding
where Gwen is officiating.

And she basically said,

"Well, if you don't come,
that's your choice."

The biggest thing I worry about,
besides obviously

potentially permanently
losing Delaney,

is not being allowed to
have a relationship

with any children
they might have.

And, if it were
to come to a point

where she decided to leave
the cult and he didn't,

and they have kids,
we've seen how that happens.

We've seen how that works.

They round up the lawyers

and it gets real ugly
and real messy real fast.

[Natasha] I have paid over,
easy, $200,000

in defense of myself,
and it's gotten me nowhere.

And that finalized my decision

that I'm done with lawyers,

and I'm gonna represent myself.

I'm working
four jobs right now,

and at the same time,

I've been practicing,
I've been reading.

I've been becoming a lawyer
in the last year.

And now I'm up against
not just the father anymore.

I'm up against Gwen Shamblin.

I'm up against
a Remnant Fellowship attorney.

[Rachel] This same attorney
also has represented many other

Remnant men
whose wives have left.

They're happy to take care of
those legal fees in order to--

if there's children involved,
that they're gonna be

kept within the fold,

that those children
aren't going

to be lost
to the wayward parent.

That they are going
to be Remnant,

that they are going to be

a bigger group
because of the children.

[child on phone]
Daddy, can I call my mom back

when we get back to the house?

[Joe speaking indistinctly]

[child sighs] He said...

he'll talk to me about it
when he gets home.

[Natasha]
When you're dealing with...

manipulative people
with a lot of money,

they can hire people
to follow you.

They try to intimidate you
and harass you.

I went to get gas, and I said,

"Mom, look at that car
that's stopped

at the gas station
where we stopped,

but nobody's getting out."

I mean, you don't stop
at a gas station

and sit in your car, right?

Right at the gas pump.

And then we got on the freeway,

and then we were both thinking
that they were following us.

I would not put it past
these people to follow me

for the next three months,

especially because
they're losing.

So, it behooves them
to try to get dirt on me

during the next three months
while we go to--

it's gonna be war by the time
I get back to court

on November 10.

[Paul Morantz]
A cult is by definition

a group of people that have
a common bond or belief

that maybe is
not mainstream.

There's nothing
really wrong with that.

That's certainly within

our First Amendment rights
to believe.

What usually is talked about
is what the experts call

a destructive cult
or an abusive cult.

What happens is
is that instead of the group

existing to serve
the needs of the followers,

the followers exist to
serve the need of the leader.

Gwen, you make religion fun.

We never had---

- [applause]
- Religion was never fun

until we came here.

There's never a dull moment,
that's for sure.

[Stuart Watson]
My problems with

these huge,
personality-driven,

money-based, money-grubbing
churches are

that they have nothing to do

with the ideals
that they purport,

and they exploit

their particular place
in the tax code

to hide what it is they're
really doing, which is

to fund someone's ego and
their greed

and their lust for power,
control, or something else,

and just their abject avarice.

[Helen]
When I first joined the church,

I felt like it was less
about money.

But as I was in the church,

everything got a little
bit more ostentatious,

a little bit more grand,

a little bit more weird,
a little bit, you know--

a little bit more fake.

[Gary Blackburn]
From what I've been told

by multiple members
of that church,

you can't criticize her.

You can't criticize
how she dresses,

the provocative nature
in which she came to dress.

With a man, that would
be called middle-age crazy.

[laughs]

[Rachel]
She went from the '90s,

early 2000s
Southern housewife look

to looking more like...

[chuckles]

a strung-out hooker?

[laughs]

Sorry.

[interviewer] Did she always
have that hair?

[laughing] No.

It's gotten taller every
year she's been there.

No one's gonna say
anything to her.

Everybody's gonna tell her
it looks wonderful.

[laughs]

[screaming]

[Teri Phillips]
She gets all her services free.

Somebody comes in
and does her hair for free.

You know, her nails,
they do it for free.

Cooking, they do it for free.

Everything's free, you know.

It's a service,

for God, so to speak.

[Autumn] This lady has
a Porsche, a Hummer,

a side house, a mansion.

I'm like, how do you have
all of this money?

Where is this coming from?

From us.

Every time we buy your books
at our little work--

They call it a "workshop."
It's like a gift shop

and there's mugs,
t-shirts, tote bags,

and their, you know,
workbooks.

Not only do you have to buy
the DVD, but you

also have to buy the workbook,

and then the journal
on top of that.

She is selling
a really good game.

For anybody that wants to take
Weigh Down Advanced,

week one is this Sunday, so--

[Rachel] You always had
to be in a Weigh Down class.

They were not complimentary,
given by the church.

You had to pay for them.

Instead of buying food,
extra food this week,

buy this and
keep it by your side.

[Gina] It is always
talked about behind the scenes

about supporting the church,
and especially during

all the different "festivals"

when everybody comes in
from across the nation.

It's all talked about how

you bring your gifts
to the church.

And people would literally
bring gifts,

like baskets of bread
and things.

And at one point
it was said from stage,

"We're not doing that
this year. Just bring money.

"We need money.

That's what you need to
be bringing to God."

[Terasee]
Within Remnant Fellowship

there is a real estate company,

a financial planning company.

There's a car service place.

There is Exodus Industries,

and they do plumbing,

air conditioning,
electrical work.

Exodus Industries
is a business arm

that Remnant Fellowship
developed

using the labor
of people

who come to
the community there

as a means of providing

a full-blown profit
and income for the group.

["Sarah"] For years,
there has been encouragement

to have everything created,

everything accessible
from within.

No longer do many people
have to go outside

to get dentistry services
or to see a pulmonologist,

to get their hair done,
to get their Botox,

to get their car fixed.

It was marketed as a,

"We have
all of these amazing talents

that--why would you go
somewhere else?"

[Gail] That's her goal,

is to make
Remnant self-sufficient

so we don't have to depend--

"We." [chuckles]

Don't have to depend
on the outside world at all.

You know, I taught piano, and
I had a big group of students

all in Remnant.

But when I'm
thinking about leaving,

I'm thinking about
all that income I'm gonna lose.

So, yeah, it's all control.

It's all just manipulation,
every bit of it.

I've been trying to gather
quantifiable data

to measure
how much our finances

are helped by the true church.

A church hides behind
its religious status.

It is a black box,
and you can never see

exactly how much is going in

or exactly how much
is coming out.

I wish I could form a church

and take all my expenses
and marketing

and put them
on the church side,

and then I just get
all the money,

and I have people
who will pay for my brand

to just be Jesus and
golden, you know.

At the same time,
Jesus doesn't get that money,

I get the money.
I get the money.

Why? Because God
wants me to have it.

No one is holding
these people accountable.

They are the institution
and the institution is them.

And the downside is,
when they stumble,

there are a lot
of good, well-meaning,

gold-hearted people
who seriously get hurt.

After an
eight-and-a-half day trial,

the judge concluded that

the parenting plan remain
the same,

which is 50/50 shared custody.

They filed a motion in
limine from the beginning

to disallow me
to mention or speak about

or introduce evidence
about the church

because of freedom of religion,

which is a huge factor
in this case.

I plan to appeal, however.

One of Joe's counsel
had contacted me.

[line ringing]

- Natasha?
- [Natasha] Yes.

Jason Whatley, how are you?

[Natasha]
I'm good, thank you.

Good. Listen,
thanks for taking my call.

You did a hell of a job
in court.

Do--I've never seen anybody

that wasn't a lawyer

do anything close to that.

And, you know,
it's just a shame that you guys,

you know, you have
a beautiful little girl,

and I know
it's been hell,

and I know both of you
would probably raise your hand

and say "I've done things
and said things

that I shouldn't have,"
or whatever.

But he--I had
a long talk with him.

He wants to put all this
behind him

and figure out
how to end the fighting.

[Natasha]
He could start by admitting

that there was never
any sexual abuse by me.

[Jason]
Well, I--I think he

I think he would
readily admit that.

I think that--
I think he would.

I've already
started writing my appeal,

and once you file an appeal,
it is public record,

and that's one of the reasons

they do not want me
to go further,

and that's one of the reasons

that Jason Whatley
called me up.

It's all based on
what's in the best interests

of Gwen Shamblin Lara and
the church and their reputation,

and not in the best interest
of our child.

You notice yourself
that this place

is different
from other churches.

Even though Satan
will try to twist this

and say that we're either

on one end of the spectrum,
bizarre,

or the other end
of the spectrum,

we're not different at all.

But you know and I know,
Satan knows,

and the world knows

we are different.

[Morantz]
A cult leader comes on to say,

"Oh, a workshop for diets
and I can make money"

and, you know,
this looks good.

And then
they become paranoid

and concentrate on enemies.

To accuse me
of being deceptive

is a very strong language,

because I've been led
by God to do this.

[Gail] She was so concerned
about what she looked like,

what the church looked like
to the world.

I mean, she said it
all the time:

"You gotta make Zion
look good.

"You don't glorify God,

"you don't make
the church look good

"if you're overweight

or if your children
are not obedient."

Police raid a business
in connection

with a Brentwood-based
church, Remnant Fellowship.

They say it's part
of a murder investigation.

Two members of the church,
Joseph and Sonia Smith,

were arrested in Atlanta
for allegedly

beating their 8-year-old
son to death.

Detectives hope the search
will yield evidence

that may explain
what the Smiths were thinking,

and what role, if any,
their religious beliefs

played in
the death of their child.

Investigators worry
there may be more victims.

♪♪♪