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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:20,153 --> 00:00:24,357 [men speaking] 2 00:00:58,958 --> 00:01:03,897 [police radio chatter] 3 00:01:08,201 --> 00:01:10,703 Good afternoon. Initial reports indicated 4 00:01:10,770 --> 00:01:12,238 that a plane crashed into the water 5 00:01:12,305 --> 00:01:14,574 just off the shore of the Fate Sanders recreational area. 6 00:01:14,641 --> 00:01:16,910 We do anticipate search-and-rescue efforts 7 00:01:16,976 --> 00:01:19,279 to continue through the night. 8 00:01:19,379 --> 00:01:21,548 We will provide updates as we have them. 9 00:01:21,614 --> 00:01:24,150 [police radio chatter] 10 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:28,922 The search continues 11 00:01:28,988 --> 00:01:31,391 after a plane went down into Percy Priest Lake. 12 00:01:31,458 --> 00:01:34,260 Investigators updated us just about an hour ago, 13 00:01:34,327 --> 00:01:36,629 and they told me that their rescue efforts 14 00:01:36,729 --> 00:01:38,665 have now turned into recovery efforts. 15 00:01:42,435 --> 00:01:43,937 Rutherford County officials 16 00:01:44,003 --> 00:01:45,672 just confirmed the seven people on board 17 00:01:45,772 --> 00:01:49,175 are all leaders at Remnant Fellowship Church in Brentwood. 18 00:02:09,128 --> 00:02:10,530 [videographer] This is a legal video deposition 19 00:02:10,630 --> 00:02:13,867 of Gwen Shamblin on May 23, 2019. 20 00:02:13,967 --> 00:02:16,169 Court reporter, would you please swear in the witness. 21 00:02:16,269 --> 00:02:17,537 [court reporter] Will you raise your right hand? 22 00:02:17,637 --> 00:02:18,872 Do you swear or affirm 23 00:02:18,972 --> 00:02:20,273 the testimony that you give in this matter 24 00:02:20,340 --> 00:02:21,307 will be the truth, the whole truth 25 00:02:21,374 --> 00:02:22,308 and nothing but the truth? 26 00:02:22,375 --> 00:02:23,309 - I do. - Okay. 27 00:02:25,778 --> 00:02:28,781 [attorney] What is your position with Remnant Fellowship? 28 00:02:30,350 --> 00:02:32,852 I am one of the leaders. 29 00:02:35,288 --> 00:02:38,491 Have any of the members of Remnant Fellowship 30 00:02:38,558 --> 00:02:41,361 been asked to leave Remnant Fellowship 31 00:02:41,461 --> 00:02:43,563 because they're overweight 32 00:02:43,663 --> 00:02:47,534 after being there for a long period of time? 33 00:02:47,634 --> 00:02:50,003 No. 34 00:02:50,069 --> 00:02:53,473 Have you ever shunned a member of your Remnant Fellowship 35 00:02:53,540 --> 00:02:56,176 because they had not yet lost all of their weight? 36 00:02:56,242 --> 00:02:57,177 Never. 37 00:02:58,678 --> 00:03:02,015 Do you encourage members of the Remnant Fellowship 38 00:03:02,081 --> 00:03:05,685 not to socialize with non-Remnant members? 39 00:03:05,752 --> 00:03:06,686 No. 40 00:03:08,521 --> 00:03:09,722 To your knowledge, 41 00:03:09,822 --> 00:03:11,324 do any of the members of the Remnant Fellowship 42 00:03:11,391 --> 00:03:13,660 consider you to be a prophet? 43 00:03:20,166 --> 00:03:23,102 God has taken 86 pounds off of me. 44 00:03:23,203 --> 00:03:25,038 I have lost 53 pounds. 45 00:03:25,104 --> 00:03:27,407 I have lost 50 pounds just following my wife. 46 00:03:27,507 --> 00:03:29,175 She has lost 178. 47 00:03:29,242 --> 00:03:31,778 I had sleep apnea. I had high blood pressure. 48 00:03:31,878 --> 00:03:33,780 I had acid reflux. 49 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,515 I'm not on any medications anymore. 50 00:03:35,582 --> 00:03:37,884 I don't have to use a machine to breathe at night. 51 00:03:37,951 --> 00:03:38,885 I'm just free. 52 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,723 I've always looked for God's guidance, 53 00:03:43,790 --> 00:03:46,392 and so, apparently, he was able to use me. 54 00:03:46,459 --> 00:03:49,429 Even at a young age, I adored him, 55 00:03:49,529 --> 00:03:51,731 and so he used me. 56 00:03:51,798 --> 00:03:54,234 And what I do in this program is teach people 57 00:03:54,300 --> 00:03:58,204 how to stop bowing down to the refrigerator 58 00:03:58,271 --> 00:04:00,940 and how to bow back down to him. 59 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:02,575 [woman] We just thank you for this teaching 60 00:04:02,642 --> 00:04:03,910 that has given us freedom 61 00:04:03,977 --> 00:04:07,247 and kept our weight off all this time, God. 62 00:04:07,313 --> 00:04:09,816 Do you think it's appropriate for you to use the Holocaust 63 00:04:09,916 --> 00:04:12,085 to promote your weight-loss plan? 64 00:04:12,151 --> 00:04:14,487 - I can give you-- - Okay, that--that's enough, 65 00:04:14,587 --> 00:04:17,090 I think. Let's go. Let's go. 66 00:04:17,156 --> 00:04:19,125 [Gwen] What does the state of the church 67 00:04:19,225 --> 00:04:20,727 have to do with weight loss? 68 00:04:20,793 --> 00:04:24,664 The answer is everything. 69 00:04:24,764 --> 00:04:26,499 I've known for some time 70 00:04:26,599 --> 00:04:28,334 that resistance to doing the will of God 71 00:04:28,434 --> 00:04:30,003 was increasing in the church, 72 00:04:30,103 --> 00:04:31,904 but we're headed for trouble, 73 00:04:31,971 --> 00:04:35,108 and someone has got to warn the people. 74 00:04:50,623 --> 00:04:57,463 ♪♪♪ 75 00:05:05,371 --> 00:05:07,140 Brentwood is located 76 00:05:07,206 --> 00:05:08,841 in the wealthiest county in Tennessee. 77 00:05:08,941 --> 00:05:11,311 It feels safe and protected 78 00:05:11,377 --> 00:05:14,681 from the harsh realities of the real world. 79 00:05:14,781 --> 00:05:17,550 People sometimes refer to it as the Brentwood Bubble. 80 00:05:22,455 --> 00:05:23,956 You grow up with the same people 81 00:05:24,023 --> 00:05:26,292 from kindergarten through high school. 82 00:05:26,359 --> 00:05:28,027 You know the community members. 83 00:05:28,127 --> 00:05:30,697 Everyone goes to football games on Friday night 84 00:05:30,797 --> 00:05:32,231 and goes to church on Sunday mornings. 85 00:05:32,332 --> 00:05:33,866 There's a church on almost every corner, 86 00:05:33,966 --> 00:05:35,868 I mean, kind of in the same way 87 00:05:35,968 --> 00:05:38,471 there's a Starbucks on every corner. 88 00:05:39,739 --> 00:05:42,241 Most everyone's on the same kind of class. 89 00:05:42,342 --> 00:05:44,844 There's not a lot of racial diversity. 90 00:05:44,911 --> 00:05:47,714 There's not a lot of diversity of any sort. 91 00:05:47,814 --> 00:05:50,750 Because it's in that bubble, I think I am surprised 92 00:05:50,850 --> 00:05:54,420 that more people don't know that live right there 93 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,422 about this place. You know? 94 00:05:58,991 --> 00:06:02,562 The house that I grew up in and lived in for over 20 years 95 00:06:02,662 --> 00:06:05,598 is about a mile from Remnant Fellowship Church, 96 00:06:05,698 --> 00:06:09,035 so I drove by all the time. 97 00:06:09,102 --> 00:06:14,173 It's surreal to just see it standing there in an open field. 98 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:15,575 There's a church next door, 99 00:06:15,675 --> 00:06:18,745 so it just kind of flows and fits in with Brentwood. 100 00:06:18,845 --> 00:06:20,279 You know, church after church. 101 00:06:20,380 --> 00:06:22,782 And you would never guess that this church 102 00:06:22,882 --> 00:06:26,085 was so different from all the others. 103 00:06:36,195 --> 00:06:38,865 [singing] 104 00:06:57,283 --> 00:07:00,253 ♪♪♪ 105 00:07:00,319 --> 00:07:01,654 [man] There are guesses 106 00:07:01,754 --> 00:07:04,090 about how many people are members of the church. 107 00:07:04,157 --> 00:07:07,393 We suspect it's around 2,000. 108 00:07:07,460 --> 00:07:09,962 Most of the church resides in Brentwood, 109 00:07:10,062 --> 00:07:11,964 and there have been quite a few families 110 00:07:12,064 --> 00:07:15,234 who have relocated from out of state to Brentwood 111 00:07:15,301 --> 00:07:17,770 just so they could be there at the church. 112 00:07:17,837 --> 00:07:20,973 ♪♪♪ 113 00:07:21,073 --> 00:07:23,776 [woman] The heart of the church is in Brentwood. 114 00:07:23,843 --> 00:07:27,079 Forty acres. Huge church. Beautiful church. 115 00:07:27,146 --> 00:07:29,682 And members either share housing 116 00:07:29,782 --> 00:07:31,951 or live very close to the church. 117 00:07:32,018 --> 00:07:36,022 And Ashlawn is less than five minutes away. 118 00:07:37,990 --> 00:07:41,194 [woman] Gwen Shamblin's Ashlawn plantation, 119 00:07:41,294 --> 00:07:46,032 I think it's a seven-bedroom, 25-acre estate. 120 00:07:46,132 --> 00:07:48,367 I mean, if you can park your helicopter there, 121 00:07:48,468 --> 00:07:51,771 then you can probably imagine that it's fairly big. 122 00:07:51,838 --> 00:07:54,273 It's right in the center of Brentwood 123 00:07:54,340 --> 00:07:56,175 near the Franklin border, 124 00:07:56,275 --> 00:07:59,479 and it's used as an event venue for Remnant Fellowship. 125 00:07:59,545 --> 00:08:02,482 The weddings are very abundant, 126 00:08:02,548 --> 00:08:05,685 very overdone. 127 00:08:05,785 --> 00:08:10,189 It's all about reputation and appearances. 128 00:08:12,191 --> 00:08:15,127 [woman] They want you to be clones of them. 129 00:08:15,194 --> 00:08:18,364 Everyone dresses the same way, 130 00:08:18,464 --> 00:08:20,566 and the children are dressed 131 00:08:20,666 --> 00:08:22,835 in, I would say, turn-of-the-century 132 00:08:22,902 --> 00:08:25,338 with lots of ruffles and lace. 133 00:08:25,404 --> 00:08:30,376 And even the little boys look like Little Lord Fauntleroy. 134 00:08:30,476 --> 00:08:32,845 And the people are always happy. 135 00:08:32,912 --> 00:08:35,081 Or they "look" happy. 136 00:08:36,849 --> 00:08:39,085 [Glen] How members of Remnant behave 137 00:08:39,185 --> 00:08:40,887 is a bit like "The Handmaid's Tale" 138 00:08:40,987 --> 00:08:42,421 and "Stepford Wives." 139 00:08:42,522 --> 00:08:45,157 There is a little bit of this fake persona 140 00:08:45,224 --> 00:08:48,594 and over-the-top bubbly, happy 141 00:08:48,694 --> 00:08:51,264 that, you know, is just for show. 142 00:08:51,364 --> 00:08:56,903 I am right now on fire... 143 00:08:57,003 --> 00:09:02,074 - Go. - ...for God to get his way. 144 00:09:02,174 --> 00:09:04,277 That's what I want. 145 00:09:04,377 --> 00:09:07,446 God to get his way. 146 00:09:07,547 --> 00:09:10,950 When Gwen first started, I truly believed 147 00:09:11,050 --> 00:09:13,052 she really wanted to help people. 148 00:09:13,119 --> 00:09:16,255 She was so charismatic. 149 00:09:16,355 --> 00:09:18,457 And the joy on Gwen's face 150 00:09:18,558 --> 00:09:21,127 when she would talk about the Lord-- 151 00:09:21,227 --> 00:09:25,431 And when Gwen would talk about just her relationship with God, 152 00:09:25,531 --> 00:09:30,436 there was so much joy there that you wanted what she had. 153 00:09:30,536 --> 00:09:33,773 [all] ...all about God! 154 00:09:33,873 --> 00:09:37,310 It was teaching you how to focus on God 155 00:09:37,410 --> 00:09:40,947 and how to really grow your relationship with God, 156 00:09:41,047 --> 00:09:43,983 and it was probably one of the best times of my life, 157 00:09:44,083 --> 00:09:45,284 believe it or not. 158 00:09:45,384 --> 00:09:48,120 It was one of the best times of my life. 159 00:09:48,220 --> 00:09:50,156 [man] You have this person and a whole movement 160 00:09:50,256 --> 00:09:52,458 who really wanna do whatever God wants them to do 161 00:09:52,558 --> 00:09:55,127 and are idealistic and wanna change the world 162 00:09:55,227 --> 00:09:56,462 with their faith. 163 00:09:56,562 --> 00:09:58,097 It sucks you in, you know. 164 00:09:58,164 --> 00:10:00,333 And it's not till you get a good way in 165 00:10:00,433 --> 00:10:01,467 that you see some of the other stuff 166 00:10:01,567 --> 00:10:03,336 that's behind the curtain. 167 00:10:16,782 --> 00:10:18,818 [Glen] I wanted to raise children 168 00:10:18,918 --> 00:10:23,189 that would be good citizens, hard-working, successful. 169 00:10:23,289 --> 00:10:25,524 You talk to 'em about drugs and alcohol 170 00:10:25,625 --> 00:10:28,027 and driving too fast and teenage pregnancy, 171 00:10:28,127 --> 00:10:30,630 but you never think to coach your kids on a cult. 172 00:10:30,696 --> 00:10:33,332 It's just-- It's not in the manual. 173 00:10:35,601 --> 00:10:40,172 Both my oldest and youngest are very independent. 174 00:10:40,272 --> 00:10:43,142 Delaney wasn't as much. 175 00:10:43,209 --> 00:10:45,311 She's extremely smart. 176 00:10:45,378 --> 00:10:47,213 She's one of these kids that get straight A's 177 00:10:47,313 --> 00:10:48,714 without cracking a book. 178 00:10:48,814 --> 00:10:51,183 She's very, very intelligent. 179 00:10:53,319 --> 00:10:54,720 [Carey] We'd heard very few rumors 180 00:10:54,820 --> 00:10:57,723 about Remnant Fellowship Church. 181 00:10:57,823 --> 00:11:00,526 But you never really would hear any details 182 00:11:00,626 --> 00:11:02,461 because, of course, those things are coming from people 183 00:11:02,528 --> 00:11:03,963 who really didn't have experience. 184 00:11:04,030 --> 00:11:08,200 It was just outsiders hearing just that they're weird 185 00:11:08,300 --> 00:11:10,670 or that they're kind of shut people off 186 00:11:10,736 --> 00:11:12,805 and they're not inclusive, stuff like that. 187 00:11:12,872 --> 00:11:17,076 But it wasn't anything super concerning at that point. 188 00:11:19,245 --> 00:11:21,080 So when she met Jackson, 189 00:11:21,180 --> 00:11:23,516 I said, "You don't treat him any different," 190 00:11:23,582 --> 00:11:27,753 because I knew that that was probably a thing 191 00:11:27,853 --> 00:11:29,755 that some people probably treated him different 192 00:11:29,855 --> 00:11:32,158 because of the church he went to. 193 00:11:33,693 --> 00:11:36,696 And at some point, I started to feel like 194 00:11:36,762 --> 00:11:38,931 there was probably something else going on 195 00:11:39,031 --> 00:11:40,199 that she wasn't telling us. 196 00:11:46,105 --> 00:11:49,742 [Glen] We became aware of it in 2016. 197 00:11:49,842 --> 00:11:51,444 They were in the same grade together, 198 00:11:51,544 --> 00:11:53,379 and she started taking an interest in this boy 199 00:11:53,446 --> 00:11:55,281 and they were in a play together. 200 00:11:55,381 --> 00:11:57,416 [Carey] She was in the midst of applying for colleges, 201 00:11:57,516 --> 00:12:00,286 trying to figure out what she wanted to do with her life. 202 00:12:00,386 --> 00:12:05,091 You know? Just senior year was kind of traumatic for her. 203 00:12:05,191 --> 00:12:11,130 [Glen] We were told by one ex-member of Remnant 204 00:12:11,230 --> 00:12:14,100 that they had a high opinion of Jackson. 205 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,603 He's very much extroverted. He talks a lot. 206 00:12:17,703 --> 00:12:19,605 He's generally friendly. 207 00:12:19,705 --> 00:12:23,609 But because of what I know, there's an undercurrent there, 208 00:12:23,709 --> 00:12:27,379 and you kind of realize the game he's playing. 209 00:12:30,950 --> 00:12:32,885 [Carey] I knew something wasn't right, 210 00:12:32,952 --> 00:12:36,322 so I went into her room and said, "Let me have your phone." 211 00:12:36,422 --> 00:12:39,925 I went on and I saw some very graphic-- 212 00:12:39,992 --> 00:12:44,163 them reliving some physical encounters. 213 00:12:44,263 --> 00:12:46,732 So I took her phone and I called Glen, 214 00:12:46,799 --> 00:12:48,134 and I said, "You need to come home right now 215 00:12:48,234 --> 00:12:50,503 'cause we have a problem." 216 00:12:51,570 --> 00:12:54,774 [Glen] We had started a little bit of research on Remnant, 217 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,643 and we had found some disturbing things. 218 00:12:57,743 --> 00:13:01,280 So I met Jackson and Delaney at Cracker Barrel. 219 00:13:01,347 --> 00:13:02,848 I asked him directly. 220 00:13:02,948 --> 00:13:05,818 I said, "Do you intend to convert Delaney 221 00:13:05,918 --> 00:13:06,852 to your religion?" 222 00:13:06,952 --> 00:13:09,188 And he said, "Yes, I do." 223 00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:13,526 At this point, he had been pretty arrogant. 224 00:13:13,626 --> 00:13:15,461 Then I pulled out the text messages, 225 00:13:15,528 --> 00:13:18,330 and his entire countenance changed. 226 00:13:18,430 --> 00:13:22,802 I said, "I do not want them seeing each other anymore." 227 00:13:22,868 --> 00:13:25,371 It felt like the problem was solved. 228 00:13:25,471 --> 00:13:27,373 It felt like it was over. 229 00:13:27,473 --> 00:13:29,441 We found out fairly quickly it wasn't. 230 00:13:31,210 --> 00:13:33,279 [Carey] Delaney was saying, "We're not dating, 231 00:13:33,345 --> 00:13:34,814 we're not dating." 232 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,615 I said, "Then what are you doing?" 233 00:13:36,682 --> 00:13:39,718 "Well, we just don't like to put a label on it like that." 234 00:13:39,819 --> 00:13:44,156 Well, you know, in my mind, I'm going, 235 00:13:44,223 --> 00:13:46,859 "He's forcing her to make a decision. 236 00:13:46,959 --> 00:13:48,561 He's not going to make that commitment 237 00:13:48,661 --> 00:13:49,795 until she joins the church." 238 00:13:52,531 --> 00:13:53,999 There's a letter where I think 239 00:13:54,066 --> 00:13:55,701 it looks like Jackson's handwriting, 240 00:13:55,801 --> 00:13:59,705 and it was several explanations about what to say to us 241 00:13:59,805 --> 00:14:02,541 when she did not want to be engaged 242 00:14:02,641 --> 00:14:05,177 in the conversation that we were wanting to have 243 00:14:05,244 --> 00:14:07,146 if it involved Remnant. 244 00:14:08,681 --> 00:14:11,584 [Glen] She was being coached to be deceptive. 245 00:14:11,684 --> 00:14:14,053 We found emails where she was told, 246 00:14:14,153 --> 00:14:15,354 "Don't forget to delete your emails," 247 00:14:15,421 --> 00:14:16,922 don't forget to change your password, 248 00:14:17,022 --> 00:14:18,424 don't forget to use your other email address." 249 00:14:18,524 --> 00:14:20,526 We think there are email addresses out there 250 00:14:20,593 --> 00:14:22,194 we don't know about, and we believe 251 00:14:22,261 --> 00:14:25,331 she probably deleted lots of emails. 252 00:14:25,397 --> 00:14:28,033 She was told, "There's evil in your house, 253 00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:32,338 and there's shadows, darkness." 254 00:14:33,372 --> 00:14:34,874 [Carey] And the next week or so, 255 00:14:34,940 --> 00:14:37,409 I just had that feeling that there was something wrong, 256 00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:41,747 and I went into her room and I found a burner phone, 257 00:14:41,847 --> 00:14:45,117 and I called her in and I said, "What is this?" 258 00:14:45,217 --> 00:14:47,519 I said, "Who gave it to you?" And she wouldn't tell me. 259 00:14:47,586 --> 00:14:51,023 So apparently that day she had walked to church, 260 00:14:51,090 --> 00:14:52,725 and one of their church members 261 00:14:52,791 --> 00:14:54,460 took her to Walgreen's or wherever 262 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,629 and bought her a phone so that she could keep it hidden 263 00:14:56,729 --> 00:15:00,199 so that they could continue to have communication with her. 264 00:15:02,034 --> 00:15:06,772 It started to be where it wasn't Delaney anymore. 265 00:15:08,073 --> 00:15:12,077 And you could tell in her eyes... 266 00:15:15,381 --> 00:15:17,650 that we were kind of losing her. 267 00:15:21,754 --> 00:15:24,823 [Glen] Gwen Shamblin's motivation isn't money. 268 00:15:25,658 --> 00:15:28,160 It was almost be easier if it was. 269 00:15:28,260 --> 00:15:32,231 But I think--I think her motivation is power. 270 00:15:44,910 --> 00:15:47,913 [Gwen's voice] 271 00:16:00,993 --> 00:16:02,661 ...of mistakes and trials, 272 00:16:02,761 --> 00:16:05,531 hardships, and finally victories. 273 00:16:05,631 --> 00:16:07,266 Now that I look back on it, 274 00:16:07,333 --> 00:16:09,635 this is what God was preparing me for 275 00:16:09,702 --> 00:16:11,670 even early in life. 276 00:16:13,272 --> 00:16:18,377 Gwen Shamblin really is a product of her culture. 277 00:16:18,477 --> 00:16:20,145 She's a Tennessean, 278 00:16:20,212 --> 00:16:22,281 and southerners are a unique people. 279 00:16:22,348 --> 00:16:24,149 They're wonderful people. 280 00:16:24,216 --> 00:16:26,218 They're people of faith. They're hard-working. 281 00:16:26,318 --> 00:16:27,820 And Gwen Shamblin's the same way. 282 00:16:29,621 --> 00:16:33,892 We southerners grow up in a culture 283 00:16:33,993 --> 00:16:39,164 understanding the Bible in a particular way. 284 00:16:39,231 --> 00:16:40,899 And we understand Jesus. 285 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,036 We understand that religion 286 00:16:44,136 --> 00:16:48,374 in a very particular way that you wouldn't understand 287 00:16:48,474 --> 00:16:51,744 if you grew up in Boston or in New York, you know. 288 00:16:51,844 --> 00:16:55,180 It's a different view, 289 00:16:55,247 --> 00:16:59,918 and that view is nobody else but Jesus, 290 00:17:00,019 --> 00:17:01,754 nobody even close, 291 00:17:01,854 --> 00:17:04,590 and that the Bible is literally true 292 00:17:04,690 --> 00:17:09,995 and that it is your job, above anything else, 293 00:17:10,062 --> 00:17:13,699 to recruit people to that way of view. 294 00:17:15,034 --> 00:17:19,038 ♪♪♪ 295 00:17:19,104 --> 00:17:21,373 Ms. Shamblin grew up 296 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,877 in one of the most conservative religious environments 297 00:17:24,943 --> 00:17:27,079 in our region: the Church of Christ. 298 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,284 The church she grew up in forbad women speaking in church, 299 00:17:32,384 --> 00:17:35,387 and now she's the pastor of a church. 300 00:17:35,454 --> 00:17:38,057 It used to be very sectarian. 301 00:17:38,123 --> 00:17:40,125 We were the only ones going to heaven, you know. 302 00:17:40,225 --> 00:17:41,360 I remember when I was a kid, 303 00:17:41,427 --> 00:17:42,528 I used to tell my little Catholic friends 304 00:17:42,594 --> 00:17:44,797 they were probably going to hell. 305 00:17:45,564 --> 00:17:48,467 The Church Of Christ is a protestant church movement 306 00:17:48,567 --> 00:17:51,070 that began in the 1800s, 307 00:17:51,136 --> 00:17:53,972 and it was an amalgamation of several different groups 308 00:17:54,073 --> 00:17:55,541 with the same ideas, 309 00:17:55,607 --> 00:17:57,976 and one of these ideas was restorationism. 310 00:17:58,077 --> 00:18:01,814 That simply being the belief that a recovery 311 00:18:01,914 --> 00:18:04,550 of your original Christian practice and thought 312 00:18:04,616 --> 00:18:06,985 derived only from scripture 313 00:18:07,086 --> 00:18:10,089 was the only way to reapproach truth. 314 00:18:10,155 --> 00:18:13,759 And they, of course, believed that they'd come across it, 315 00:18:13,826 --> 00:18:15,894 that they are restoring lost truth. 316 00:18:18,664 --> 00:18:20,933 [Adam] Church of Christ-ers have that mindset of, like, 317 00:18:20,999 --> 00:18:22,601 it is possible for human beings 318 00:18:22,668 --> 00:18:24,336 to sort of build the right church. 319 00:18:24,436 --> 00:18:25,804 We're gonna look in the scriptures, 320 00:18:25,904 --> 00:18:28,140 and we're gonna figure out what we have to do 321 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,577 to make God's church perfect here on earth. 322 00:18:31,643 --> 00:18:34,346 And I think Gwen just kind of went into a different direction 323 00:18:34,446 --> 00:18:35,848 but certainly overboard. 324 00:18:35,948 --> 00:18:38,584 [Gwen's voice] 325 00:18:50,863 --> 00:18:52,264 [Rev. Martinez] Her mother apparently 326 00:18:52,331 --> 00:18:55,601 was of the persuasion that you had to clean your plate 327 00:18:55,667 --> 00:18:57,202 back in those days. 328 00:18:57,302 --> 00:19:00,205 Since she was the one of, like, three or four kids, 329 00:19:00,305 --> 00:19:03,208 she wanted to make sure she got her fair share. 330 00:19:03,308 --> 00:19:05,878 Her father would notice 331 00:19:05,978 --> 00:19:09,515 how her eyes were bigger than her head. 332 00:19:09,615 --> 00:19:12,317 She believed that she needed to clean her plate, 333 00:19:12,384 --> 00:19:13,785 get all she could, 334 00:19:13,852 --> 00:19:17,556 but that she always had a restless hunger for more. 335 00:19:17,656 --> 00:19:20,726 She traces that back and tributes that restless hunger 336 00:19:20,826 --> 00:19:22,494 as part of this sinfulness, 337 00:19:22,561 --> 00:19:25,330 as part of a lack of self-control. 338 00:19:25,397 --> 00:19:28,800 When she finally left home and went to college, 339 00:19:28,867 --> 00:19:32,171 she gained 14 or 15 pounds of excess weight. 340 00:19:32,237 --> 00:19:34,406 That's where she begins her discussion 341 00:19:34,506 --> 00:19:37,676 of trying to understand what it means to be a thin eater 342 00:19:37,743 --> 00:19:40,646 who could eat but not gain weight. 343 00:19:40,712 --> 00:19:42,848 And as she was going through college, 344 00:19:42,915 --> 00:19:44,483 becoming a nutritionist, 345 00:19:44,550 --> 00:19:47,586 she began to understand the science behind nutrition, 346 00:19:47,686 --> 00:19:51,089 but all the other influences that she's been involved with 347 00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:53,058 were there in the back of her head. 348 00:19:53,158 --> 00:19:55,727 They were there waiting to come forth. 349 00:19:55,827 --> 00:19:57,563 If you've tried to lose weight 350 00:19:57,663 --> 00:20:00,699 with a low fat, high protein, even liquid diets, 351 00:20:00,766 --> 00:20:02,935 all to no avail, there are a number of books 352 00:20:03,035 --> 00:20:05,204 that suggest you appeal to a higher power. 353 00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:09,007 Books like "The Divine Diet," "Body by God." 354 00:20:09,074 --> 00:20:12,844 There's even "What would Jesus Eat?" just to name a few. 355 00:20:16,548 --> 00:20:19,051 [Rev. Martinez] She had been throughout the early '80s 356 00:20:19,117 --> 00:20:21,887 sharing her wisdom, what she had found about this thin eater, 357 00:20:21,954 --> 00:20:25,524 to listen to your body, to follow hunger cues. 358 00:20:25,591 --> 00:20:28,627 To her, it was divine revelation. 359 00:20:28,727 --> 00:20:31,563 Every time you want to go to food, 360 00:20:31,630 --> 00:20:35,467 and it may be 15, 20 times a day, run to God. 361 00:20:35,567 --> 00:20:37,269 She started incorporating scripture, 362 00:20:37,369 --> 00:20:40,472 and people started to come, but they would lose some weight, 363 00:20:40,572 --> 00:20:42,474 and they would start to gain it back. 364 00:20:42,574 --> 00:20:48,080 And she finally asked the Lord what's going on, 365 00:20:48,146 --> 00:20:50,749 and he said that they-- To her, he said-- 366 00:20:50,816 --> 00:20:53,885 To Gwen, she heard God say 367 00:20:53,952 --> 00:20:58,991 that "they are not following me and my son. 368 00:20:59,091 --> 00:21:00,659 They're not being obedient." 369 00:21:00,759 --> 00:21:03,095 And that's how all of this started. 370 00:21:03,161 --> 00:21:06,064 What I do in this program is teach people 371 00:21:06,131 --> 00:21:10,736 how to stop bowing down to the refrigerator 372 00:21:10,802 --> 00:21:12,838 and how to bow back down to him. 373 00:21:14,239 --> 00:21:15,440 [Rev. Martinez] Other Christian diets 374 00:21:15,507 --> 00:21:17,175 had taught the same general principles, 375 00:21:17,276 --> 00:21:19,911 but she in turn expanded on it, 376 00:21:19,978 --> 00:21:23,248 and she began developing these Bible studies 377 00:21:23,315 --> 00:21:27,119 that became the foundation for the Weigh Down Workshop. 378 00:21:27,185 --> 00:21:30,188 [woman] Hey, guys, welcome to week 6 of Weigh Down. 379 00:21:30,289 --> 00:21:32,190 Debbie, if you want to lead us in prayer. 380 00:21:32,291 --> 00:21:34,159 [Teri] A neighbor across the street told me about it. 381 00:21:34,259 --> 00:21:35,661 She said that it's a great diet 382 00:21:35,761 --> 00:21:38,363 where you don't have to count calories. 383 00:21:38,463 --> 00:21:40,699 You don't have to exercise. 384 00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:43,035 And you could stop in the middle of a piece of pizza 385 00:21:43,135 --> 00:21:45,270 or stop in the middle of a candy bar 386 00:21:45,337 --> 00:21:46,705 and not eat the rest. 387 00:21:46,805 --> 00:21:49,508 And I thought, "No way! There's no such thing." 388 00:21:49,608 --> 00:21:53,512 The basic principles were, you know, you can eat 389 00:21:53,612 --> 00:21:56,481 whatever you want. 390 00:21:56,548 --> 00:21:58,350 No foods are bad. 391 00:21:58,450 --> 00:22:01,386 Jesus declared all foods clean in Mark 7. 392 00:22:01,486 --> 00:22:02,954 So there was freedom 393 00:22:03,021 --> 00:22:07,225 in "I can actually eat pizza and chocolate and lose weight?" 394 00:22:07,326 --> 00:22:08,727 That intrigued me. 395 00:22:08,827 --> 00:22:12,230 The world will say you can't eat that way and lose weight. 396 00:22:12,331 --> 00:22:15,901 What you did is you waited for physical hunger, 397 00:22:16,001 --> 00:22:18,637 and you ate till you're satisfied. 398 00:22:18,704 --> 00:22:21,206 And the times that you weren't hungry, you went to God. 399 00:22:21,306 --> 00:22:24,376 You prayed. You gave that desire for the food to him. 400 00:22:24,476 --> 00:22:25,911 [Gwen] They can only think about food 401 00:22:26,011 --> 00:22:27,846 when their stomach growls, 402 00:22:27,913 --> 00:22:31,583 and that eliminates a lot of focus on food. 403 00:22:31,683 --> 00:22:33,418 [Helen] What Gwen would say 404 00:22:33,518 --> 00:22:38,223 is you have breakfast and lunch and dinner on your body. 405 00:22:38,323 --> 00:22:40,559 If you don't have your growl, you know, 406 00:22:40,659 --> 00:22:42,594 but your body needs some food, 407 00:22:42,694 --> 00:22:44,763 it's just going to take the fat away from your body. 408 00:22:44,863 --> 00:22:47,099 It's just going to take all of the extra breakfasts 409 00:22:47,199 --> 00:22:49,034 and lunches that you've had 410 00:22:49,101 --> 00:22:51,436 and you're gonna lose weight and you're gonna feel great. 411 00:22:51,536 --> 00:22:53,538 You're gonna have more energy, 412 00:22:53,605 --> 00:22:56,108 and you're gonna be right with God 413 00:22:56,208 --> 00:22:57,776 because you're gonna be thinner. 414 00:23:01,613 --> 00:23:03,915 I started losing weight immediately. 415 00:23:04,015 --> 00:23:05,717 I mean, like-- 416 00:23:05,784 --> 00:23:09,121 Within two months, I had lost 27 pounds. 417 00:23:09,221 --> 00:23:15,026 So the program itself works, and it's simply portion control. 418 00:23:15,093 --> 00:23:18,029 [Gina] Gwen always touted 419 00:23:18,096 --> 00:23:20,232 that this was, like, some revolutionary thing 420 00:23:20,298 --> 00:23:21,933 that God had given her. 421 00:23:22,033 --> 00:23:25,737 Yet, it's been around forever, and I'm finding that out now. 422 00:23:25,804 --> 00:23:28,807 You know, she didn't have-- nor does she still-- 423 00:23:28,907 --> 00:23:31,109 have the corner on the market in intuitive eating. 424 00:23:31,209 --> 00:23:34,146 God revealed to me that this was the true deliverance 425 00:23:34,246 --> 00:23:37,549 and that the key to permanent weight control 426 00:23:37,616 --> 00:23:39,985 is a matter of the heart. 427 00:23:40,085 --> 00:23:42,821 It plays to what every American adult 428 00:23:42,921 --> 00:23:47,092 is obsessed about: their weight. You know? 429 00:23:47,159 --> 00:23:49,995 And if you think about how many Americans are evangelical 430 00:23:50,095 --> 00:23:53,932 who have been thought that all the answers are in the Bible 431 00:23:53,999 --> 00:23:56,601 and that if we just studied the scriptures hard enough, 432 00:23:56,668 --> 00:23:59,104 we'll see God's way. 433 00:23:59,171 --> 00:24:00,639 [Rev. Martinez] They trusted Gwen Shamblin 434 00:24:00,739 --> 00:24:03,308 because they felt, "Look, she's a church member." 435 00:24:03,408 --> 00:24:06,678 She uses the Bible. 436 00:24:06,778 --> 00:24:09,181 She's speaking to people who are in churches 437 00:24:09,281 --> 00:24:11,149 who have the same convictions. 438 00:24:11,249 --> 00:24:12,818 You fall out of love with the food, 439 00:24:12,918 --> 00:24:14,119 and you fall in love with God. 440 00:24:14,186 --> 00:24:15,987 It was the way he intended it to happen. 441 00:24:16,087 --> 00:24:19,024 [Rev. Martinez] That bridging of that gap 442 00:24:19,124 --> 00:24:22,828 is how she was able to gain the traction she gained 443 00:24:22,928 --> 00:24:25,997 within the church and within culture. 444 00:24:26,097 --> 00:24:28,166 It became quite--quite a runaway success. 445 00:24:28,266 --> 00:24:31,770 Weigh Down began five years ago in a Baptist church. 446 00:24:31,837 --> 00:24:35,373 It spread by word of mouth to more than 250,000 people 447 00:24:35,474 --> 00:24:38,710 in over 14,000 churches and 70 countries. 448 00:24:40,378 --> 00:24:42,814 [Teri] Weigh Down Workshop classes were in churches. 449 00:24:42,881 --> 00:24:45,851 I mean, it was thousands of churches all over the country. 450 00:24:45,951 --> 00:24:47,185 Just about every church on the corner 451 00:24:47,285 --> 00:24:48,353 would have the Weigh Down Workshops. 452 00:24:48,453 --> 00:24:50,222 - Hi, Ms. Shamblin. - Yes! 453 00:24:50,322 --> 00:24:51,690 How are you? I'm Jackie Taylor, 454 00:24:51,790 --> 00:24:53,725 one of the producers here. My sister's on your diet. 455 00:24:53,825 --> 00:24:55,660 You have to sign a copy of your book for my mom. 456 00:24:55,727 --> 00:24:57,028 Her birthday's tomorrow. 457 00:24:57,128 --> 00:25:00,866 [Rev. Martinez] She was on "20/20," CBS, NBC. 458 00:25:00,966 --> 00:25:03,335 It was just a massive media hit. 459 00:25:03,401 --> 00:25:06,638 [reporter] To her followers, she is sort of a modern-day Moses. 460 00:25:06,705 --> 00:25:10,342 Her book has already sold more than 400,000 copies. 461 00:25:10,408 --> 00:25:12,244 [Teri] I thought of her as a star. 462 00:25:12,344 --> 00:25:17,015 She had this large, flat-screen TV in one of her rooms. Huge. 463 00:25:17,082 --> 00:25:18,583 And "Larry King Live" was playing-- 464 00:25:18,683 --> 00:25:20,585 her interview with "Larry King Live"-- 465 00:25:20,685 --> 00:25:22,587 just over and over. 466 00:25:22,687 --> 00:25:24,689 I think what we have not addressed 467 00:25:24,756 --> 00:25:27,492 is that this is a void inside of us. 468 00:25:27,559 --> 00:25:29,427 We were made to be addictive. 469 00:25:29,528 --> 00:25:31,696 And I'm not asking people not to be addictive. 470 00:25:31,763 --> 00:25:35,200 I'm saying transfer over this addiction to God, 471 00:25:35,267 --> 00:25:37,202 the only thing that can love you back 472 00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:39,538 without, you know, robbing you blind. 473 00:25:39,604 --> 00:25:41,206 [Gina] There was a lot going on. 474 00:25:41,273 --> 00:25:42,774 It was really exciting. 475 00:25:42,874 --> 00:25:44,242 The Larry King days, 476 00:25:44,342 --> 00:25:46,444 the, you know, the Doubleday bestseller days, 477 00:25:46,545 --> 00:25:48,113 and her book tour days. 478 00:25:48,213 --> 00:25:50,882 That was the height when she would go and do 479 00:25:50,949 --> 00:25:52,450 all these tours all over the country. 480 00:25:52,551 --> 00:25:54,286 They're called Rebuilding the Wall. 481 00:25:54,386 --> 00:25:56,454 And she would have everybody on stage. 482 00:25:56,555 --> 00:25:59,257 They would get on stage, and they would hold their clothes up 483 00:25:59,357 --> 00:26:00,592 where they've lost all this weight. 484 00:26:00,692 --> 00:26:03,562 I've lost 117 pounds by the grace of God. 485 00:26:03,628 --> 00:26:07,899 I'm from Denver, Colorado, and I've lost 196 pounds. 486 00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:12,971 - I've lost 156 pounds now. - [applause] 487 00:26:13,071 --> 00:26:14,472 [reporter] All of the members 488 00:26:14,573 --> 00:26:16,708 usually have words of thanks to Gwen 489 00:26:16,775 --> 00:26:19,611 for helping them lose the weight and keep it off, 490 00:26:19,711 --> 00:26:22,314 something no other diet has been able to do for them. 491 00:26:22,414 --> 00:26:24,382 I just have always wanted to see you. 492 00:26:24,449 --> 00:26:25,951 - Oh, come here. - [applause] 493 00:26:26,051 --> 00:26:29,955 [Gina] She loved on everybody, you know, just lots of love 494 00:26:30,055 --> 00:26:32,490 and, you know, made you feel really great. 495 00:26:32,591 --> 00:26:36,061 That was something that I, you know, had missing in me. 496 00:26:36,127 --> 00:26:38,296 So I soaked that all up. 497 00:26:38,396 --> 00:26:41,099 You know, I was in awe. It was just like, "Wow. 498 00:26:41,166 --> 00:26:43,468 This person has just been put here on this earth 499 00:26:43,568 --> 00:26:44,569 to change my life. 500 00:26:44,636 --> 00:26:46,004 And so you wanna get around them. 501 00:26:46,104 --> 00:26:47,839 I wanted to be her best friend. 502 00:26:47,939 --> 00:26:51,142 It is the truth, and it is the answer to that bondage. 503 00:26:51,242 --> 00:26:53,678 It is a bondage. You are enslaved 504 00:26:53,778 --> 00:26:57,182 to all the diet foods and all the regulations. 505 00:26:57,282 --> 00:26:58,783 And it's just a freedom 506 00:26:58,850 --> 00:27:02,320 to know that you're not gonna be enslaved to that anymore. 507 00:27:02,420 --> 00:27:06,825 It is extremely unusual to have a religious group 508 00:27:06,925 --> 00:27:08,660 in the Christian faith led by a woman, 509 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:13,632 to have a matriarchal lineage, to have a feminine force. 510 00:27:13,698 --> 00:27:18,803 The wife is incidental in most of these evangelical churches. 511 00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:21,606 [Rev. Martinez] The core audience for Weigh Down Workshop 512 00:27:21,673 --> 00:27:25,176 were women that felt they had great needs in their life 513 00:27:25,276 --> 00:27:26,878 that weren't being spoken to 514 00:27:26,978 --> 00:27:29,214 by the traditional church that they were in. 515 00:27:29,314 --> 00:27:31,883 They were also confessing what they were seeing in the church 516 00:27:31,983 --> 00:27:33,485 by way of hypocrisy. 517 00:27:33,551 --> 00:27:35,220 They were seeing the preachers. 518 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,123 They were seeing the big fat cat leaders in the churches 519 00:27:38,189 --> 00:27:42,360 living such immoral and materialistic lives. 520 00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:45,730 So they began to view the Weigh Down Workshop 521 00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:49,067 and its teaching and its claims and what Gwen was saying 522 00:27:49,167 --> 00:27:51,569 as an alternative, as an outlet 523 00:27:51,670 --> 00:27:54,072 to help get those needs met. 524 00:27:54,172 --> 00:27:55,640 It seems like I talk too fast 525 00:27:55,707 --> 00:27:57,976 because I'm so excited about God. 526 00:27:58,043 --> 00:27:59,911 She's so passionate for God. 527 00:28:00,011 --> 00:28:01,980 She was one of the first women that I've ever seen 528 00:28:02,047 --> 00:28:03,348 that just loved God 529 00:28:03,415 --> 00:28:06,418 and taught you how to have a relationship with God. 530 00:28:06,518 --> 00:28:10,255 It did radically change me in many, many ways, 531 00:28:10,355 --> 00:28:13,324 and it was one of the best times of my life early on. 532 00:28:14,726 --> 00:28:18,263 It really pointed me to look into God for everything 533 00:28:18,363 --> 00:28:21,733 and examining your life of just, you know, areas 534 00:28:21,833 --> 00:28:25,270 that you've put more of a priority on than on God. 535 00:28:25,370 --> 00:28:28,073 Are you worried at all that you're sending the message 536 00:28:28,173 --> 00:28:30,742 that God only likes thin people? 537 00:28:30,842 --> 00:28:32,777 Mm-mmm. I don't think he looks at the outside 538 00:28:32,877 --> 00:28:34,179 so much as the heart. 539 00:28:34,245 --> 00:28:36,181 That's what he says. I think he's jealous. 540 00:28:36,247 --> 00:28:41,953 He's jealous of us worshipping, you know, objects more than him. 541 00:28:42,053 --> 00:28:44,789 [Rev. Martinez] She was continually cranking out 542 00:28:44,889 --> 00:28:47,892 more curricula, more media with the same message. 543 00:28:47,959 --> 00:28:50,528 As the fortunes began to grow, 544 00:28:50,595 --> 00:28:53,231 as she began to get more and more of a following, 545 00:28:53,298 --> 00:28:56,234 she was broadening things towards believing 546 00:28:56,301 --> 00:28:58,069 that her message was going to apply-- 547 00:28:58,136 --> 00:28:59,938 it was applicable to any personal problem. 548 00:29:00,038 --> 00:29:04,142 They're laying down cigarettes, alcohol, pornography. 549 00:29:04,242 --> 00:29:06,411 We're getting truckloads of letters 550 00:29:06,478 --> 00:29:09,047 of things that are happening as people have been able 551 00:29:09,114 --> 00:29:10,782 to transfer a relationship with food 552 00:29:10,882 --> 00:29:12,984 to a relationship with God. 553 00:29:13,084 --> 00:29:15,587 [Rev. Martinez] She just continually asserts 554 00:29:15,653 --> 00:29:20,492 that she is a purveyor of this wonderful message. 555 00:29:20,592 --> 00:29:23,161 "We want to teach you permanent weight loss, 556 00:29:23,261 --> 00:29:26,331 but more than that, we want to teach you... 557 00:29:26,431 --> 00:29:27,799 fulfillment of life." 558 00:29:27,899 --> 00:29:30,001 She uses all the verbiage 559 00:29:30,101 --> 00:29:33,438 of recruitment to a cause, 560 00:29:33,505 --> 00:29:35,607 to a personal quest. 561 00:29:35,673 --> 00:29:37,509 She beckoned to people. 562 00:29:37,609 --> 00:29:41,179 There's a way to what she called the Promised Land. 563 00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:51,422 [crickets chirping] 564 00:29:54,125 --> 00:29:56,327 [Glen] There was a person I had come in contact with 565 00:29:56,427 --> 00:29:58,930 who used to be at Remnant, him and his whole family, 566 00:29:58,997 --> 00:30:01,132 and they got out, and I had asked him 567 00:30:01,199 --> 00:30:04,269 if he would be willing to meet with Delaney 568 00:30:04,335 --> 00:30:05,937 and talk about their experience. 569 00:30:09,007 --> 00:30:10,675 [Carey] Delaney agreed to go. 570 00:30:10,775 --> 00:30:12,477 And it just happened to be a Wednesday night, 571 00:30:12,544 --> 00:30:14,646 'cause that's when this person could meet us. 572 00:30:14,712 --> 00:30:17,715 And, of course, that meant she was gonna miss church. 573 00:30:17,816 --> 00:30:20,051 So the day that it happened, 574 00:30:20,151 --> 00:30:22,987 um, she started to panic. 575 00:30:24,189 --> 00:30:26,191 [Glen] She started to renege on it a bit 576 00:30:26,291 --> 00:30:28,660 and didn't want to 'cause she didn't want to miss church. 577 00:30:28,726 --> 00:30:31,963 But I told her you committed, and they're already locked in, 578 00:30:32,030 --> 00:30:33,131 and so we're gonna go. 579 00:30:35,066 --> 00:30:36,668 [Carey] So that night we went 580 00:30:36,734 --> 00:30:40,004 and met with this ex-church member and his daughter. 581 00:30:40,071 --> 00:30:42,674 They decided they were gonna leave the church. 582 00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:46,077 And when they left, no one would talk to them. 583 00:30:46,177 --> 00:30:50,381 Basically, their life as they knew it was just done. 584 00:30:50,481 --> 00:30:53,718 And he was so kind and so informative. 585 00:30:53,818 --> 00:30:56,421 And I remember Delaney just sitting there 586 00:30:56,521 --> 00:30:58,256 acting like a five-year-old. 587 00:30:58,356 --> 00:31:01,059 Like, "I don't wanna listen to this." 588 00:31:01,159 --> 00:31:02,660 She wouldn't ask any questions, you know. 589 00:31:02,727 --> 00:31:03,828 It was just kind of like, 590 00:31:03,895 --> 00:31:05,430 there was nothing out of that conversation 591 00:31:05,530 --> 00:31:08,733 that would have helped her, in her brain. 592 00:31:11,769 --> 00:31:13,438 [Glen] Delaney came home with me in my truck, 593 00:31:13,538 --> 00:31:15,707 and when I backed into the driveway, 594 00:31:15,773 --> 00:31:17,408 got out, went into the house. 595 00:31:17,508 --> 00:31:19,777 And she didn't follow me, but that didn't surprise me. 596 00:31:19,878 --> 00:31:21,746 I figured she probably was fuming 597 00:31:21,846 --> 00:31:23,715 and needed to cool off a little bit. 598 00:31:23,781 --> 00:31:26,851 A few minutes later, I realized she hadn't come in, 599 00:31:26,918 --> 00:31:31,122 so I went back out to get her, and she was gone. 600 00:31:33,024 --> 00:31:35,193 We went driving around looking for her, 601 00:31:35,260 --> 00:31:36,794 but it wasn't very long. 602 00:31:36,895 --> 00:31:39,964 And we got a text message from someone else's phone number 603 00:31:40,064 --> 00:31:42,267 that said, "I'm safe. 604 00:31:42,367 --> 00:31:45,570 I'm at someone's house. Don't worry about me." 605 00:31:50,074 --> 00:31:51,776 [Carey] My concern is that at some point 606 00:31:51,876 --> 00:31:53,211 she would want to get out. 607 00:31:53,278 --> 00:31:54,746 But yet, it's going to be one of those things 608 00:31:54,812 --> 00:31:56,281 where she's not going to be able to 609 00:31:56,381 --> 00:31:59,083 because...they're gonna-- 610 00:31:59,150 --> 00:32:01,119 They don't let you leave. 611 00:32:07,225 --> 00:32:12,096 ♪ We will glorify the King of kings ♪ 612 00:32:12,163 --> 00:32:16,801 ♪ We will glorify the Lamb ♪ 613 00:32:16,901 --> 00:32:21,839 ♪ We will glorify the Lord of lords ♪ 614 00:32:21,940 --> 00:32:23,808 ♪ Who is the great I Am ♪ 615 00:32:23,908 --> 00:32:25,343 [Adam] Coming out of the church background 616 00:32:25,443 --> 00:32:27,412 that Gwen and I share, 617 00:32:27,478 --> 00:32:31,082 there's a real emphasis on lay leadership. 618 00:32:31,149 --> 00:32:33,985 So I think that she sort of came along this idea 619 00:32:34,085 --> 00:32:35,520 of, like, "Oh, people can lose weight 620 00:32:35,620 --> 00:32:37,488 if they eat this certain way, 621 00:32:37,588 --> 00:32:40,525 and it's God's way of people losing weight, 622 00:32:40,625 --> 00:32:42,360 and I'm the one with the message." 623 00:32:42,460 --> 00:32:44,362 She cashed in on it, 624 00:32:44,462 --> 00:32:47,498 but also, I think, in her mind, you know, 625 00:32:47,598 --> 00:32:49,634 brought God's kingdom into earth with that. 626 00:32:49,701 --> 00:32:55,006 But God's church is supposed to be a place where it's pure... 627 00:32:56,641 --> 00:33:00,778 where there isn't anything unholy. 628 00:33:00,845 --> 00:33:03,514 Selfish, selfishness, 629 00:33:03,614 --> 00:33:08,720 self-loving, self-centered people...are-- 630 00:33:08,820 --> 00:33:10,888 have gotten inside the church, 631 00:33:10,989 --> 00:33:15,193 and this is the abomination 632 00:33:15,293 --> 00:33:18,396 that has led to her desolation. 633 00:33:18,496 --> 00:33:20,665 [Rev. Martinez] She began to believe 634 00:33:20,732 --> 00:33:23,701 that the Weigh Down Workshop message 635 00:33:23,801 --> 00:33:26,170 was the answer for all the world's evils. 636 00:33:26,237 --> 00:33:27,705 She had the truth. 637 00:33:27,805 --> 00:33:30,408 Christian perfectionism could only be achieved 638 00:33:30,508 --> 00:33:32,677 by following her message. 639 00:33:32,744 --> 00:33:35,046 And so from that point on, she began realizing, 640 00:33:35,146 --> 00:33:37,315 "Well, there needs to be a new church. 641 00:33:37,382 --> 00:33:40,585 There needs to be a new restoration." 642 00:33:40,685 --> 00:33:44,255 And, of course, that's when she incorporated in 1999 643 00:33:44,355 --> 00:33:46,657 the Remnant Fellowship Church. 644 00:33:51,396 --> 00:33:54,732 [Glen] Remnant in itself is a very elitist name. 645 00:33:54,832 --> 00:33:56,868 They're claiming to be the remnant 646 00:33:56,934 --> 00:33:58,369 of the Christian church 647 00:33:58,436 --> 00:34:03,374 and that no other church is--is the Christian church. 648 00:34:03,441 --> 00:34:04,609 It's only theirs. 649 00:34:04,709 --> 00:34:06,911 It was in the Old Testament, 650 00:34:07,011 --> 00:34:10,415 but the only time you see it mentioned in the New Testament 651 00:34:10,515 --> 00:34:12,683 is in the final book of the New Testament 652 00:34:12,750 --> 00:34:14,118 which is Revelation. 653 00:34:14,218 --> 00:34:18,790 And there is a remnant of 144,000 believers. 654 00:34:18,890 --> 00:34:21,392 But that's in the very end times. 655 00:34:21,459 --> 00:34:25,296 Now, it's interesting that cults glom onto that 656 00:34:25,396 --> 00:34:27,131 and say, "If you wanna be part of this remnant, 657 00:34:27,231 --> 00:34:30,101 then you need to be part of this group." 658 00:34:30,201 --> 00:34:33,204 God Almighty, the God of the universe 659 00:34:33,271 --> 00:34:38,709 says I can't go to heaven unless I lay down greed. 660 00:34:38,776 --> 00:34:40,278 Then I knew I was onto something, 661 00:34:40,378 --> 00:34:41,979 and also that's when-- 662 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,649 It took fear. It was fear of God. 663 00:34:44,749 --> 00:34:46,484 [man] The fear of God is the basis 664 00:34:46,584 --> 00:34:49,554 for her start-up church called Remnant Fellowship. 665 00:34:49,620 --> 00:34:52,457 Weigh Down members formed the core of the congregation. 666 00:34:52,557 --> 00:34:54,158 The church and Gwen Shamblin 667 00:34:54,258 --> 00:34:56,794 were thrust into the Christian media spotlight. 668 00:34:56,894 --> 00:34:59,430 That's when Shamblin defied the orthodox Christian belief 669 00:34:59,497 --> 00:35:02,233 of the Trinity--the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit-- 670 00:35:02,300 --> 00:35:04,102 saying God is above all. 671 00:35:04,168 --> 00:35:08,339 The Trinity is everything when it comes to Christian theology. 672 00:35:08,439 --> 00:35:10,174 You have the Father, 673 00:35:10,274 --> 00:35:13,911 who is the Lord we often think of in the Old Testament 674 00:35:13,978 --> 00:35:16,514 who gives the Ten Commandments and that kind of thing. 675 00:35:16,614 --> 00:35:19,016 But you have the Son who died for our sins. 676 00:35:19,117 --> 00:35:20,952 And then you have the Holy Spirit 677 00:35:21,018 --> 00:35:23,154 who is today indwelling believers 678 00:35:23,254 --> 00:35:25,690 and is our guide and our teacher. 679 00:35:25,790 --> 00:35:27,692 Without the Trinity, 680 00:35:27,792 --> 00:35:30,828 you lose the deity of Christ, 681 00:35:30,928 --> 00:35:33,531 and if we lose the deity of Christ, 682 00:35:33,631 --> 00:35:38,102 then we lose his power to give us salvation. 683 00:35:38,169 --> 00:35:40,104 The teaching against the Trinity 684 00:35:40,171 --> 00:35:43,841 has been regarded as heresy for centuries. 685 00:35:43,941 --> 00:35:48,379 She had views that seemed designed 686 00:35:48,479 --> 00:35:50,548 to separate her from others, 687 00:35:50,648 --> 00:35:53,885 to try to increase her panache, so to speak, or her appeal. 688 00:35:53,985 --> 00:35:56,154 She was very rigid, 689 00:35:56,220 --> 00:35:59,557 very unforgiving, which is typical of zealots 690 00:35:59,657 --> 00:36:01,893 no matter what their subject matter. 691 00:36:01,993 --> 00:36:03,828 [Teri] In 2000, and I was there 692 00:36:03,895 --> 00:36:06,364 at the Desert Oasis in Nashville when this happened, 693 00:36:06,464 --> 00:36:08,666 she introduced her church. 694 00:36:08,733 --> 00:36:12,670 God is rebuilding this city with a righteous remnant, 695 00:36:12,737 --> 00:36:16,073 whether you want to be a part of it or not. 696 00:36:16,174 --> 00:36:18,376 And just as in Nehemiah's day, 697 00:36:18,476 --> 00:36:23,714 he has chosen only the obedient survivors from the exiles, 698 00:36:23,814 --> 00:36:26,517 those who returned and obeyed his commands. 699 00:36:27,418 --> 00:36:30,688 [Teri] Half the people accepted her message, 700 00:36:30,755 --> 00:36:33,090 and the other half left 701 00:36:33,191 --> 00:36:37,428 because she denied the Trinity in this message. 702 00:36:37,528 --> 00:36:40,097 [Adam] That was kind of a real watershed moment 703 00:36:40,198 --> 00:36:42,099 for her movement because lots of churches 704 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:43,401 were like, "Oh, no. No, no, no, no. 705 00:36:43,501 --> 00:36:45,369 We can't have this in our churches anymore." 706 00:36:45,436 --> 00:36:47,605 And churches were bailing on them right and left. 707 00:36:47,705 --> 00:36:50,908 [Gina] People started calling in, angry people, 708 00:36:51,008 --> 00:36:52,777 and I'm fielding all these calls. 709 00:36:52,877 --> 00:36:56,247 Pastors livid, yelling, screaming. 710 00:36:56,347 --> 00:37:00,885 And people shipping books and tapes back in mass. 711 00:37:00,952 --> 00:37:05,256 It was awful, awful times to be working on the phones. 712 00:37:05,356 --> 00:37:08,459 [man] The woman behind the Weigh Down Workshop, 713 00:37:08,559 --> 00:37:12,563 Gwen Shamblin, is being sued by several former employees. 714 00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:14,732 Among their claims, being pressured 715 00:37:14,799 --> 00:37:18,469 to join Shamblin's church, Remnant Fellowship. 716 00:37:18,569 --> 00:37:20,805 I was employed by five women 717 00:37:20,905 --> 00:37:24,141 who had worked at the Weigh Down Workshop. 718 00:37:24,242 --> 00:37:27,144 They felt that their rights were being violated 719 00:37:27,245 --> 00:37:28,646 from a religious standpoint 720 00:37:28,746 --> 00:37:30,314 because they were being required, 721 00:37:30,414 --> 00:37:32,049 as a condition of their employment, 722 00:37:32,116 --> 00:37:34,819 to attend Ms. Shamblin's church. 723 00:37:34,919 --> 00:37:37,989 So we filed five lawsuits 724 00:37:38,089 --> 00:37:41,325 which we then combined into one case 725 00:37:41,425 --> 00:37:43,761 and ultimately settled those cases. 726 00:37:43,828 --> 00:37:48,799 It was in the course of that that I took her deposition. 727 00:37:48,899 --> 00:37:52,770 When people were in prison camps and ate less food, 728 00:37:52,837 --> 00:37:55,239 they lost weight. 729 00:37:55,306 --> 00:37:57,808 All of 'em. 730 00:37:57,908 --> 00:38:00,478 [Gary] Ms. Shamblin, surely you're not making a comparison 731 00:38:00,578 --> 00:38:03,681 between the force of starvation of a population 732 00:38:03,781 --> 00:38:06,851 and middle-class Americans' eating habits. 733 00:38:06,951 --> 00:38:08,986 Are you honestly doing that? 734 00:38:10,154 --> 00:38:12,123 I have been for 15 years, 735 00:38:12,189 --> 00:38:14,692 and a lot of people have responded. 736 00:38:14,792 --> 00:38:17,762 I don't know that she ever really understood 737 00:38:17,828 --> 00:38:19,697 how offensive it was. 738 00:38:19,797 --> 00:38:24,535 I think her inability to see how offensive that example would be 739 00:38:24,635 --> 00:38:26,504 is a manifestation of the zealotry. 740 00:38:28,005 --> 00:38:29,373 L. Ron Hubbard said 741 00:38:29,473 --> 00:38:33,044 the best way to make money is to start a religion. 742 00:38:33,144 --> 00:38:34,945 Not just a church. A whole religion. 743 00:38:35,012 --> 00:38:40,885 Jesus, ichthys, the fish, the cross, the Bible, 744 00:38:40,985 --> 00:38:43,354 the whole nine yards, it's all smoke and mirrors. 745 00:38:43,454 --> 00:38:47,058 This is not about theology at all. 746 00:38:47,158 --> 00:38:49,527 That's all a sideshow. 747 00:38:49,627 --> 00:38:54,799 It's about money, prestige, power. 748 00:38:56,334 --> 00:38:58,035 That's her holy trinity. 749 00:38:58,135 --> 00:38:59,870 [man] They're opening a new headquarters 750 00:38:59,970 --> 00:39:01,639 in Franklin, Tennessee next year, 751 00:39:01,706 --> 00:39:04,909 and Shamblin expects plenty of people to help fill it. 752 00:39:05,009 --> 00:39:07,178 [Gwen] So, yeah, I mean, this is an uphill battle. 753 00:39:07,244 --> 00:39:08,846 I mean, I think you'll see me again. 754 00:39:08,913 --> 00:39:12,650 Because what this does is it stirs up people. 755 00:39:12,717 --> 00:39:16,754 Because I'm questioning the most thing that matters-- 756 00:39:16,854 --> 00:39:19,056 their church and their salvation. 757 00:39:28,199 --> 00:39:30,935 Lift up Jerusalem and make this place 758 00:39:31,035 --> 00:39:33,070 a light to the world 759 00:39:33,170 --> 00:39:35,673 with directions for the exiles who come home 760 00:39:35,740 --> 00:39:38,609 and have pointed everything up to you 761 00:39:38,709 --> 00:39:40,878 that you are everything. 762 00:39:40,945 --> 00:39:44,215 You are the God of all. 763 00:39:44,281 --> 00:39:47,118 [Gina] One of her big premises for this church 764 00:39:47,218 --> 00:39:49,620 was people out in the world 765 00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:51,889 that are doing these classes in other false churches 766 00:39:51,956 --> 00:39:53,724 are gaining their weight back. 767 00:39:53,791 --> 00:39:57,428 So this church is her, you know, big savior 768 00:39:57,528 --> 00:39:59,764 to help people keep their weight down 769 00:39:59,864 --> 00:40:02,600 and stay, you know, saved. 770 00:40:02,700 --> 00:40:04,735 It was all about salvation. 771 00:40:04,802 --> 00:40:08,406 And, um, nothing to do with Jesus Christ. 772 00:40:08,472 --> 00:40:10,641 It was about being thin. 773 00:40:12,209 --> 00:40:13,944 [Terasee] If you're not losing weight, 774 00:40:14,044 --> 00:40:16,814 like, you don't lose more than two pounds that week, 775 00:40:16,914 --> 00:40:18,816 you are told to fast. 776 00:40:18,916 --> 00:40:22,219 And there are people who have fasted 40 days. 777 00:40:22,286 --> 00:40:24,488 I mean, I was told myself 778 00:40:24,588 --> 00:40:27,324 that I needed to just quit eating to lose more weight. 779 00:40:27,425 --> 00:40:32,096 I had lost 130 pounds within 18 months. 780 00:40:32,163 --> 00:40:35,633 But they wanted me to fast to lose more weight. 781 00:40:35,733 --> 00:40:39,470 And it's the faster you do it, the holier you are. 782 00:40:39,570 --> 00:40:43,941 The unrepentant gravitate quickly to the dark places, 783 00:40:44,008 --> 00:40:47,645 the dark churches that do not turn on the light 784 00:40:47,745 --> 00:40:50,848 for the fear of offending any members, 785 00:40:50,948 --> 00:40:53,684 stepping on any toes. 786 00:40:53,784 --> 00:40:58,989 Because the pain of the light 787 00:40:59,089 --> 00:41:01,759 of the guilt 788 00:41:01,826 --> 00:41:03,527 is overwhelming. 789 00:41:03,627 --> 00:41:05,095 [Gina] The overarching theme 790 00:41:05,162 --> 00:41:07,531 of everything that she ever taught in there 791 00:41:07,631 --> 00:41:12,369 was always being under God's authority, which was her. 792 00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:15,206 Everything fell around that. 793 00:41:15,306 --> 00:41:17,508 And then everything else was about the weight 794 00:41:17,608 --> 00:41:18,709 and what you look like. 795 00:41:18,809 --> 00:41:22,179 So we were constantly being told 796 00:41:22,279 --> 00:41:24,548 every time we were together. 797 00:41:24,648 --> 00:41:27,551 And then the other leaders, you know, backing it up 798 00:41:27,651 --> 00:41:30,187 that she was the voice from God. 799 00:41:30,287 --> 00:41:32,223 She was the one hearing from God. 800 00:41:32,323 --> 00:41:35,226 She was the prophet of God. 801 00:41:35,326 --> 00:41:37,862 And who are we to think we could question 802 00:41:37,962 --> 00:41:39,897 what God's telling her? 803 00:41:41,632 --> 00:41:45,002 What must one actually believe or do 804 00:41:45,069 --> 00:41:48,672 to be considered a true adherent 805 00:41:48,739 --> 00:41:51,575 of God's true religion? 806 00:41:51,675 --> 00:41:54,211 I've asked all these questions 807 00:41:54,311 --> 00:41:59,083 and wondered if there was a church, a true church 808 00:41:59,183 --> 00:42:02,086 on this earth or not. 809 00:42:02,186 --> 00:42:05,523 Or was it just going to exist in heaven? 810 00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:07,358 I have good news. 811 00:42:07,424 --> 00:42:10,861 I have found God's church. 812 00:42:10,928 --> 00:42:15,099 [applause] 813 00:42:15,199 --> 00:42:18,736 [Gina] I mean, she's just playing God on earth. 814 00:42:18,836 --> 00:42:21,238 It's wrecking families. It's wrecking kids. 815 00:42:21,338 --> 00:42:23,541 It's giving them eating disorders. 816 00:42:23,607 --> 00:42:25,342 It's ruining marriages. 817 00:42:25,409 --> 00:42:27,578 It's giving people PTSD, 818 00:42:27,678 --> 00:42:31,282 social anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts, 819 00:42:31,382 --> 00:42:33,584 self-harm, you know. 820 00:42:33,684 --> 00:42:36,620 I mean, all of these things 821 00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:40,758 because of this person that just has to look good 822 00:42:40,858 --> 00:42:42,560 in her community. 823 00:42:44,762 --> 00:42:46,797 She's gone to another level. 824 00:42:46,897 --> 00:42:49,066 Um, another level of crazy. 825 00:42:49,133 --> 00:42:51,569 Another level of--She-- 826 00:42:51,635 --> 00:42:54,805 It's her way, you know. It's nothing about God. 827 00:42:54,905 --> 00:42:57,908 It's not been about God in a long time. 828 00:42:57,975 --> 00:42:59,476 It's been about Gwen, 829 00:42:59,577 --> 00:43:03,647 and she's going to twist and manipulate the Bible 830 00:43:03,747 --> 00:43:06,584 into fitting her agenda. 831 00:43:07,918 --> 00:43:10,588 ♪ Glory to God ♪ 832 00:43:10,654 --> 00:43:15,459 ♪ In the highest ♪ 833 00:43:15,559 --> 00:43:19,630 [Terasee] My real prayer is that it implodes, 834 00:43:19,730 --> 00:43:21,832 that Remnant Fellowship implodes. 835 00:43:21,932 --> 00:43:23,801 I almost thought it was gonna happen 836 00:43:23,901 --> 00:43:25,502 when Gwen married Joe. 837 00:43:25,603 --> 00:43:26,971 I really did. 838 00:43:27,071 --> 00:43:28,739 I thought surely, 839 00:43:28,806 --> 00:43:32,610 surely people are gonna get it, 840 00:43:32,676 --> 00:43:36,480 that she's not all she cracks herself up to be. 841 00:43:36,580 --> 00:43:38,649 I vow to only look forward with you 842 00:43:38,749 --> 00:43:40,084 into this incredible journey 843 00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:43,754 that the Lord has in store for us. 844 00:43:43,821 --> 00:43:45,356 And if the dark forces 845 00:43:45,456 --> 00:43:47,758 should ever manifest themselves against us, 846 00:43:47,825 --> 00:43:50,494 I vow to never stand behind you, 847 00:43:50,594 --> 00:43:52,963 'cause I'll be in front of you. 848 00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:55,265 [ applause ] 849 00:44:00,638 --> 00:44:03,607 My name is Natasha Pavlovich. 850 00:44:03,674 --> 00:44:06,877 I had a daughter with Joe Lara 851 00:44:06,977 --> 00:44:10,547 who married Gwen Shamblin, 852 00:44:10,648 --> 00:44:14,785 and we are all in juvenile court 853 00:44:14,852 --> 00:44:18,522 fighting for the custody of our daughter. 854 00:44:26,797 --> 00:44:30,067 It's heartbreaking because you have to be strong, 855 00:44:30,167 --> 00:44:33,137 and inside, when you're talking to her, 856 00:44:33,203 --> 00:44:34,672 you really wanna fall apart. 857 00:44:34,738 --> 00:44:36,407 [girl laughing] 858 00:44:36,507 --> 00:44:39,743 [Natasha speaking foreign language] 859 00:44:39,843 --> 00:44:41,845 When my daughter is with me, 860 00:44:41,912 --> 00:44:48,752 she's free to express herself for who she is. 861 00:44:48,852 --> 00:44:51,588 When she's over there, she doesn't have that freedom. 862 00:44:51,689 --> 00:44:55,259 She's not allowed to have friends 863 00:44:55,359 --> 00:44:57,327 outside of Remnant Fellowship. 864 00:44:57,394 --> 00:45:01,031 She's not allowed any extracurricular activities 865 00:45:01,098 --> 00:45:03,100 outside of their compound. 866 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,404 Life for my daughter would be in a capsule 867 00:45:07,504 --> 00:45:12,242 and subject to all of their brainwashing, 868 00:45:12,342 --> 00:45:15,779 and that's what I'm afraid of. 869 00:45:15,879 --> 00:45:19,917 They want to take my daughter away from me 870 00:45:20,017 --> 00:45:23,387 to make the father the primary parent. 871 00:45:23,454 --> 00:45:25,055 No. 872 00:45:25,122 --> 00:45:26,957 No. 873 00:45:27,057 --> 00:45:33,263 You know, I had to keep convincing myself no 874 00:45:33,363 --> 00:45:37,801 because the alternative would be to submit, 875 00:45:37,901 --> 00:45:41,872 and I will never, so help me God, 876 00:45:41,939 --> 00:45:47,277 submit not to protect my daughter. Never. 877 00:45:47,377 --> 00:45:50,280 It's okay. You know what? You're strong. 878 00:45:50,380 --> 00:45:53,083 And guess who you're gonna see tomorrow. 879 00:45:53,150 --> 00:45:57,454 Guess who you're gonna see tomorrow. Molly. 880 00:45:57,554 --> 00:45:59,323 Yeah. Yeah. 881 00:45:59,423 --> 00:46:03,994 My daughter is the nucleus, the focus of my life. 882 00:46:04,094 --> 00:46:08,432 She deserves to reach her own potential in life, 883 00:46:08,499 --> 00:46:10,501 to make her own decisions, 884 00:46:10,601 --> 00:46:14,671 and not to be controlled by the decisions, influences, 885 00:46:14,772 --> 00:46:18,976 and authoritarianism of Gwen Shamblin. No. 886 00:46:19,076 --> 00:46:23,847 [clock ticking] 887 00:46:23,947 --> 00:46:26,617 Gwen Shamblin was not expecting 888 00:46:26,683 --> 00:46:29,653 for me to be such a strong person 889 00:46:29,753 --> 00:46:31,755 that stands up for herself. 890 00:46:31,822 --> 00:46:35,692 She was expecting me to go away like all the others. 891 00:46:35,793 --> 00:46:40,497 Surprise. Surprise. I ain't going anywhere. 66267

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