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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,520 MAN: It became clear that there was a pattern of attacks 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,360 on elderly people within the South East London area... 3 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,560 To rape them and sexually assault them - hideous crimes. 4 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,360 Operation Minstead had gone on years 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,200 and became a subject of derision as far as the police were concerned. 6 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:27,160 The fact that it's elderly people in kind of the autumn of their lives 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:28,760 and something like this happens to them, 8 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:30,560 I can't imagine 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,120 any of them ever came anywhere near recovering from it. 10 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:39,640 MAN: I knew I had to do everything I could to bring that to an end. 11 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,040 NEWSCAST: It was a crime of almost breath-taking callousness. 12 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,040 NEWSCAST: The man who tried to kill her 13 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:45,920 will never be free to harm again. 14 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:47,520 NEWSCAST: The audio was too graphic to be broadcast. 15 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,760 The life sentence may provide some closure for his victims' families. 16 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:51,600 Nine men were killed when the inferno swept through the building. 17 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,280 ..targeted young women unable to defend themselves. 18 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,200 NARRATOR: Colin Sutton was a detective chief inspector 19 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,560 and senior investigating officer in the Metropolitan Police. 20 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:10,680 He led the investigations 21 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,640 into some of the most-complex and high-profile cases ever, 22 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:15,920 bringing dangerous criminals to justice. 23 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,040 NEWSCAST: He showed his cowardliness... 24 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,000 NEWSCAST: ..then heard screaming... NEWSCAST: The Night Stalker... 25 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,480 NEWSCAST: ..pulls out the gun. Another 146 victims. 26 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,480 NARRATOR: In this series he will take you inside those cases 27 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,920 and show you how he caught these criminals 28 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,160 using nothing but pure detective work. 29 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,680 This is The Real Manhunter. 30 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,600 NEWSCAST: ..now been found guilty on all 25 of those charges. 31 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,240 NEWSCAST: ..the oldest victim, 89. 32 00:01:39,320 --> 00:01:41,640 NEWSCAST: The officer in charge described it as a senseless tragedy. 33 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:43,560 NEWSCAST: The life sentence may provide some closure 34 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,400 for his victims' families. 35 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,520 (EERIE MUSIC) 36 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,440 ELDERLY WOMAN ON PHONE: 37 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,280 MAN: 38 00:02:09,640 --> 00:02:11,400 WOMAN: 39 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,320 It became clear we were dealing with an evil human being, 40 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:49,120 a ruthless individual. 41 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,480 A lot of his victims suffered at his hands 42 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,120 but suffered in silence 43 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,240 and never actually reported them 44 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,440 but carried it with them to their graves. 45 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,720 The Night Stalker was a clever and sophisticated criminal. 46 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:05,160 There's no doubt of that. 47 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,280 He thought about what he was doing. 48 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,560 He thought about how he might get caught 49 00:03:09,640 --> 00:03:13,440 and he thought of ways to avoid getting caught. 50 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,560 For 17 years this man had struck fear into a community, 51 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:21,160 and that couldn't continue. 52 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,960 I knew I had to do everything I could to bring that to an end. 53 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:30,280 NEWSCAST: An investigation is underway 54 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,440 following a burglary and sexual assault 55 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:33,760 in the Shirley area of Croydon last night. 56 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:35,480 The victim, an elderly woman in her 80s, 57 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,320 was woken by an intruder who had broken in. 58 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:39,480 Police have yet to confirm if it is linked to a series of attacks 59 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,800 by a man known as the Night Stalker. 60 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:47,080 During the 1990s there was a pattern of attacks on elderly people 61 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,040 within the South East London area. 62 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,640 Speculation - could one person be responsible, 63 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,000 who by then had been given the nickname 'Night Stalker'. 64 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:58,880 This had been running for 17 years, 65 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,640 and there didn't seem to be any answers as to who this man was. 66 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,520 At that particular period in South East London, 67 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,520 there were thousands of elderly people 68 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,520 living in fear of this criminal. 69 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,320 He had an air of invincibility about him. 70 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,480 The numbers were large. 71 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:19,320 Mainly they were incidents where a prowler had broken in at night, 72 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,600 woken up the occupants, who were always elderly, 73 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,200 occasionally indecently assaulted them 74 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:28,280 but not always indecently assaulted them, 75 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,080 and on several occasions he'd raped them. 76 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,800 You couldn't serve as either a uniformed or detective 77 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,840 in South East London and not know about Operation Minstead. 78 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,560 I was promoted from detective sergeant to detective inspector 79 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,280 in January 2009. 80 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,200 I was selected to join Operation Minstead 81 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:48,800 and I'd been there about three months 82 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,360 and Colin appeared early summer of 2009. 83 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,320 Up until Colin arriving, I was kind of the only manager on the ground, 84 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,840 so to have another...for Colin to come as SIO was a relief to me. 85 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:07,480 In April 2009, I was still the leader of my murder team at Putney. 86 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,160 The new commander of the Homicide and Serious Crime Command 87 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,640 left a message for me saying could I go up and see him 88 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,880 at Scotland Yard just to have a chat 89 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,640 and then asked me what I knew about Operation Minstead. 90 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:23,280 I just knew that Operation Minstead was South East London, 91 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,760 that it was a long-running investigation 92 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:29,880 into a series of rapes and burglaries of old people. 93 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:35,960 My team had been successful in other cases, high-profile cases, 94 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,960 and just wanted somebody to have a look at it. 95 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,480 (SIREN WAILS) 96 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:55,240 This is Lewisham Police Station where Operation Minstead was based. 97 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:56,280 I'd never been here before. 98 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,320 I was asked to come over and have a look 99 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,320 and see if I could come up with any ideas. 100 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,160 This is where it was based, so I came. 101 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,040 But I met the team and realised how small it was 102 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,160 and how difficult their task was 103 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,240 in trying to catch this guy 104 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,720 that had been committing these terrible offences for so long. 105 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,280 It was a case that seriously needed solving. 106 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,040 I was pleased to have the opportunity to try and contribute to that. 107 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,880 When I first came here to take a look, 108 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:26,840 I knew very little about the case, 109 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,320 and I was brought up to speed 110 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,520 by going to a meeting of all the supervisors. 111 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,520 We sat down and they were discussing the lines of inquiry 112 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,760 and what was going on and I made a few notes. 113 00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:40,200 The first one was the suspect's description. 114 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:44,080 That was based on victim statements and victim accounts. 115 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,080 It was very, very generic, 116 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,840 but it was allegedly a black male, 117 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:50,720 light skinned to dark skinned, 118 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,080 normally dressed in dark clothing from head to foot. 119 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,800 The age range varied from the 30s to...upper 40s, 120 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,160 quite well built, average height 121 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,600 and normally wearing a balaclava or some sort of face covering. 122 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:06,760 And then it was obviously the offender's DNA, 123 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:10,120 which at that stage had been left at various scenes, 124 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,120 so we were using that to eliminate people in a mass DNA screening. 125 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,080 One of our victims had said 126 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,720 that when the perpetrator had woken her up, 127 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,680 he was dressed in dark clothing, 128 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,600 potentially could have been wearing 129 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,920 a motorcycle helmet and motorcycle clothing, 130 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,240 and then when he left, 131 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,560 she thought she heard the engine of a motorcycle. 132 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,080 So on that basis, a line of inquiry was started 133 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,880 to trace motorcycle licence holders in that area. 134 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,400 It was a very large line of inquiry 135 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,840 and it essentially was suspended pretty soon into my tenure. 136 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,280 Where you've got lots of cases going back over many years, 137 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,560 there's no substitute for just locking yourself away 138 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,400 to get a feel of what they were about and what was happening. 139 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,480 So, for the first kind of couple of weeks I was a sponge, 140 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,640 I was soaking up the information rather than sort of processing it 141 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,560 and thinking about it and looking at what it might mean 142 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,680 and where we could go. 143 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:06,240 I got on very well with Colin. 144 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,560 He was an established SIO with a good reputation on the command. 145 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:13,080 I was a brand-new detective inspector, kind of finding my feet. 146 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,840 I knew about investigation and I knew about homicide investigations 147 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,440 and obviously this type of investigation, as well. 148 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,040 Colin had an advantage in that he could brief upwards 149 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,160 with the management team of the Homicide Command. 150 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,320 He brought elements in the investigation 151 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,760 that I couldn't bring to it and obviously another perspective. 152 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:30,360 What became clear 153 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:36,160 is that these offences were confined to a pretty exact geographical area. 154 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,480 If you took that part of Greater London, south of the River Thames, 155 00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:44,440 and to the east of the A23 at Croydon, 156 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,000 that was his hunting ground. 157 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,480 So it's like a quarter of Greater London. 158 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:51,400 And there were one or two offences just over the border into Surrey, 159 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:56,480 but mostly it was kind of outer South East London. 160 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:13,240 What came to be regarded as offence number one in the Minstead series 161 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,440 took place in Wickham Road in Shirley in October 1992. 162 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,000 The police got a message 163 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,240 that there'd been a burglary at a bungalow 164 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,440 where an 84-year-old woman lived on her own. 165 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,400 And when police turned up and responded to this call, 166 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,080 that was when the victim confided in them 167 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,760 that not only had she been burgled and had property stolen, 168 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:39,720 but that she'd also been raped. 169 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,920 Now, most burglars run a mile if there is somebody in the house. 170 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,360 They want to burgle a house that's empty. 171 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,800 But in this case 172 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:53,160 there was interaction between the burglar and the victim. 173 00:09:54,680 --> 00:09:59,000 It was late in the evening on 12 October 1992. 174 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:03,240 A man in a balaclava broke in, went down the side of this house here, 175 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,880 removed a pane of glass from the window. 176 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,480 He'd removed it whole. He hadn't smashed it. 177 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:12,400 He'd kind of peeled away the fitting and taken out the pane of glass 178 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,640 and set it down quite sort of carefully 179 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,920 and had gone in through the window. 180 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,520 At some point during his progress through the house, 181 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,920 he'd been removing lightbulbs from their fittings, 182 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,200 presumably so that if the victim woke up 183 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,840 and tried to switch the light on then there would be no light. 184 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,240 He also cut the telephone wires, 185 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,640 because when the ordeal was over 186 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,600 and the victim went to try and phone for help, 187 00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:43,800 she found that her phone had been disconnected. 188 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,080 He went into her bedroom, 189 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:50,080 and this 84-year-old lady was confronted with the horror 190 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:56,440 of being awoken in her own bed by a figure looming over her with a torch, 191 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,560 a dark figure, 192 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,200 hand over her mouth, telling her not to make a noise. 193 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,240 And her ordeal went on for something like two hours. 194 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,080 And during that time the intruder raped her 195 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:15,400 before stealing some jewellery and 250 pounds in cash. 196 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,640 A terrible crime, a terrible ordeal 197 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,920 for an old lady to have to go through in her own home. 198 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,040 You can only imagine how terrifying it must have been for her 199 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,120 in the dark in that house on her own. 200 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,520 She should feel safe there - it's her own home, 201 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,320 and she's got this intruder doing these terrible things to her. 202 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,360 He eventually leaves her after two hours 203 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,040 and she wants to raise the alarm and finds that her phone's been cut off - 204 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:47,760 she can't phone anybody. 205 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,240 So she walks along to where her niece lives nearby 206 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,240 and she asks her niece to raise the alarm, 207 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,680 and police are told that there's been a burglary, 208 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,280 and it's just been an overnight burglary, 209 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,840 and they turn out, attend the burglary, 210 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:05,840 and it's at that point that the lady reveals that she's been raped, 211 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,280 that she's been raped in her own home in the middle of the night 212 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:09,440 by this intruder. 213 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,960 Once he'd overpowered his victim, 214 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,640 he used to spend considerable time in the address, 215 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,240 either going around himself 216 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,480 or speaking to the actual victim themselves, 217 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:20,040 and he showed caring attributes, 218 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,200 which is very unusual for an offender. 219 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,000 The victim told them 220 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,960 that the rapist had kissed her on the lips and on the cheek. 221 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,240 It had the investigators a little bit sort of confused and bemused. 222 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,960 Is he trying to kind of make things right and just smooth things over 223 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,320 and maintain a good relationship with them? 224 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,760 Or is he trying to persuade them that they shouldn't tell the police 225 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,520 and, you know, they shouldn't come after him? 226 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,520 Almost more disturbing and confusing for the victims 227 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,480 who were probably not able to think straight, 228 00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:56,920 having just been the victim of such a horrible crime. 229 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:02,320 It's just this really unusual way in which he treated the victim, 230 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,120 almost with sensitivity and a degree of compassion, 231 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:12,760 having just inflicted the most barbaric of acts and assaults on her. 232 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,920 There really is no other way to investigate an allegation of rape 233 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:24,640 but to subject the victim again to another intrusive 234 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,920 and, you know, uncomfortable experience 235 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,040 of being medically examined and forensic swabs being taken, 236 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:32,760 because if you haven't got the evidence 237 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,000 you can get from that examination of those swabs, 238 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,800 you're never going to prove the case further down the line anyway. 239 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:44,800 So she's taken to the suite and she's examined and swabs are taken, 240 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,800 and from those swabs and particularly from her clothing, 241 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,000 from her pyjamas and some of the bedding here, 242 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,280 there was semen, and it was from that semen 243 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,560 that a full male DNA profile was later distilled. 244 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,600 COLIN SUTTON: In 1992 the use of DNA as an investigative tool 245 00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:02,960 was kind of in its infancy. 246 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,680 The database was very small, 247 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,680 so although there was semen present from the rape... 248 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,840 on both the swabs and the old lady's pyjamas... 249 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,840 it wasn't until some years later 250 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,160 that those objects were resubmitted to the laboratory 251 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,440 and yielded a male DNA profile. 252 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,200 At first the police weren't aware 253 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,440 that, you know, this was gonna be part of a series. 254 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:34,680 Obviously there had been no other similar offences in the recent past, 255 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,440 and this was thought, really, to be very much of a one-off. 256 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,680 The investigation stayed with the local borough. 257 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,200 It's their task for the local CID to investigate it, 258 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,000 and so it stayed there, and they did investigate it 259 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,880 and they got nowhere and didn't find the suspect, 260 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,280 and it was kind of filed as unsolved. 261 00:14:54,440 --> 00:15:00,120 As time went on, we realised that this was a series 262 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,560 and that these sort of houses 263 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,560 and this type of 1930s semi-detached houses or bungalows 264 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,080 in these essentially quiet and residential 265 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,160 parts of South East London 266 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:13,920 were the hunting ground for the Night Stalker. 267 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,920 Six years later, in September 1998, 268 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:30,560 there was a significant attack 269 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,760 just outside the Met Police area in Warlingham in Surrey. 270 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,800 It's important in the story of the Night Stalker 271 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,240 because it was in Warlingham, in this road, 272 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:45,120 that the second offence took place where the suspect left DNA. 273 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,600 The 81-year-old victim was in bed, lived alone. 274 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,400 She had mobility problems. 275 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,480 And the suspect came along, 276 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,240 entered through that gate, down the side of the house, 277 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,480 and he had a large screwdriver, and he tried to prise a window open. 278 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,560 And then he realised there was a key 279 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,000 hanging on a string on the fence near the back door. 280 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:06,040 The victim had left that 281 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,520 for her carers and her family to let themselves in if they needed to. 282 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:10,920 So he used that - 283 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,120 'why bother with the screwdriver when I've got the key?' 284 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:18,400 But those actions of trying to break in with the screwdriver 285 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:23,200 became very important, because every tool like this, every screwdriver, 286 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,600 has a unique shape. 287 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,480 Microscopically the marks that that screwdriver makes 288 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,480 are different to other screwdrivers. 289 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,080 And what happens is the scenes of crime officers 290 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,480 will take a plaster cast from the mark that that leaves 291 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:45,040 and that can then be microscopically photographed and examined. 292 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,520 And when there are other marks at other crime scenes, 293 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,240 they can be compared, 294 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,400 and the comparison of those marks can link two crime scenes 295 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,400 in very much the same way 296 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,720 that a DNA profile or a fingerprint might link them. 297 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,400 He was in the premises for some time, 298 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,760 and he did make an attempt to rape the victim 299 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,960 but it wasn't successful. 300 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:13,200 He asks her for money, and she said she didn't have any. 301 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:19,680 Then he climbs on top of her and he begins to indecently assault her. 302 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,440 He tries to pull her legs apart - he's going to rape her - 303 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:23,600 he undid his trousers, 304 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,840 but she yells out in pain from her chronic arthritis 305 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,280 as he tries to move her legs, 306 00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:35,000 then she almost feigns illness, feigns that she's passed out. 307 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,200 And this seemed to concern him, and he stopped. 308 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,520 In fact he had so much concern for her, it seems, 309 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,720 he then tried to find a pulse to make sure she was still alive 310 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,000 and he picked up her wrists and looked at that. 311 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,960 And he left. And the ordeal for her was over quite quickly. 312 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,040 There was a genuine fear 313 00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:57,080 of a reprisal. 314 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,720 In this case, the fear was more that the intruder would return, 315 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,320 and so it wasn't until the following morning when she spoke to her son 316 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,000 that she reported the offence. 317 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,440 He wasn't able to perform the act, 318 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,880 but in doing so he did ejaculate, 319 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,640 and there was semen found on the carpet in her bedroom. 320 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:20,520 From that semen a full male DNA profile was extracted, 321 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,480 and it matched exactly the profile from the 1992 offence. 322 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,760 Now we had two rapes by the same unknown person. 323 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,640 We had a series. We had Operation Minstead. 324 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,560 This then enlightened them 325 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,080 to the prospect that they were dealing with a serial rapist, 326 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,640 a serial sex offender targeting elderly people. 327 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,560 It wasn't long before this started filtering out to the media 328 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,000 and reports of sexual offences 329 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,320 began being attributed to someone who we call the Night Stalker. 330 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,760 Night Stalker was something invented by the press. 331 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,800 The people running the investigation in the early 2000s 332 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:04,480 were not particularly happy with, 333 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,840 because it was felt that it accentuated the fear 334 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,120 that these people should be in. 335 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,120 The police didn't particularly like that phrase being used, 336 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,640 but it was easy for us to describe to the public 337 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,080 that this was someone who was breaking in at night time. 338 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,080 Part of the strategy very much 339 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:27,920 was to try not to have elderly ladies in South East London 340 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,760 having to live their lives in fear. 341 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,520 If you look at the media reporting of Operation Minstead 342 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,200 throughout its history, 343 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,800 the focus is always on the sexual element of the crimes, 344 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,920 and what this does, or this did, 345 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:48,240 was to, I think, focus the methods of investigation that we used 346 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,640 onto those which are used for rape and sexual offences, 347 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,320 and very much that became DNA. 348 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,000 The team was concentrating their efforts 349 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,040 on trying to get DNA swabs from suspects, 350 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:10,480 compare that with the DNA they had from the first two crime scenes. 351 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,880 I'm pretty sure that those on that team in 1998 352 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:19,720 would have thought that it would be quite a quick job. 353 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,120 They just needed to find this guy - 354 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,160 and his DNA, we'll put in on the database, 355 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:29,160 once that DNA's there, it matches up, game over, job done. 356 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,800 Sadly that's not what happened. 357 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,520 The DNA in itself ultimately proved to be fruitless. 358 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,280 They were trying to get scientists to do really difficult things. 359 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:43,160 The two main scientific pieces of work that went on 360 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:48,880 were around physical characteristics from the DNA profile and ancestry. 361 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:54,040 The profile showed this man was black by ethnicity 362 00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:59,880 but that his skin was likely to be pale, freckled, 363 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:04,120 and that his hair would be ginger or very light. 364 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:06,960 The ancestry said 365 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,800 that our suspect was likely have come from the Lesser Antilles 366 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,920 and most likely Trinidad and Tobago. 367 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,160 What that caused the investigation team to do 368 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,600 was to take the publicity campaign about Operation Minstead to Trinidad, 369 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,000 in case somebody over there recognised the person it might be. 370 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,360 They wanted to go for a little swim after work. 371 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,480 A photographer from a Sunday newspaper was on hand 372 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,080 to catch them in their speedos lying around the pool. 373 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,640 A rather unfortunate interpretation was put on that. 374 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,480 They could have been more circumspect in what they did. 375 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,880 It resulted in an article in one of the newspapers 376 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,480 where they're called the Frying Squad. 377 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,640 It just kind of debased the sort of gravity of the situation 378 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,240 and of the investigation, 379 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,760 and ultimately it was something 380 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,280 that didn't take the investigation 1mm further. 381 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:00,960 When I arrived in January 2009, 382 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,680 a very large mass DNA screening exercise had been in operation 383 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,520 for about 11 years. 384 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,920 Certainly it involved officers going to the home addresses 385 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,280 of people who'd been identified 386 00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:12,360 that might fit the description of the suspect 387 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,720 and essentially persuading them to give an elimination swab. 388 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,120 Then obviously that would be sent to the Forensic Science Service. 389 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,760 And because of the age range that was being looked at, 390 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,160 these were black men who'd grown up in South East London 391 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,000 during the late 1970s and the 1980s. 392 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,200 And during that time, 393 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,120 I think that their contact with the Metropolitan Police 394 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,760 may not necessarily have been positive. 395 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:43,120 You're then going around and saying, "Can I have a sample of your DNA 396 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,800 that we can compare with our crime scene," 397 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,960 and no matter how many promises I made 398 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,880 that that sample would be destroyed if it was not you, 399 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:57,040 the mistrust that had built up over a couple of decades was still there, 400 00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:03,080 and it meant that cooperation was rarely given, in truth. 401 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,960 We'd eliminated 2,000 people and we had another 2,000 to do, 402 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,360 so that would have taken another 11 years. 403 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,640 When I first went over there, it just so happened that that week 404 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:18,240 they had had one man who had offered up his swab for DNA, 405 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,160 which meant that the whole operation 406 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,440 to try to find the Night Stalker by DNA swabbing 407 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,000 was going to be fraught with difficulties. 408 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,040 And I wrote in the margin of my book 409 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:33,400 at that first meeting a couple of days into my review, 410 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,280 "What if we didn't have DNA?" 411 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,000 The Night Stalker operated over a very large area of London 412 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,200 in the South East, south London and Surrey... 413 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,240 a total of about 2.5 million people. 414 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,200 Again, this is a typical road 415 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,400 right in the middle of his favourite hunting grounds. 416 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:58,320 And you can see there 1930s houses and bungalows, semis. 417 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,560 You can still point out houses 418 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,920 that show there's an old person that lives there. 419 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,560 The house hasn't been modernised, 420 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,840 the garden is kept in a way and hasn't been changed into a driveway. 421 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,720 And that was what he based his crime upon. 422 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,160 Your typical Minstead victim had their windows done in the '80s. 423 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,640 They were replaced by UPVC windows with external beading. 424 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:29,880 And he knew that, so a lot of his victims had the same sort of window 425 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,560 that he was very expert at breaking in through, 426 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,320 and that was because it had external beading he could rip out, 427 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,840 take the pane of glass out, and he was in. 428 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,720 He would start his surveillance, his sort of his reconnaissance, 429 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,360 days before he committed the offence, 430 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,200 but then he would often sit there for hours at a time 431 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,840 looking to see what was going on 432 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,600 and to make sure he understood what the habits were 433 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,000 in that particular address. 434 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,360 It adds another, more sinister dimension 435 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,320 that he spent so long researching his victims, 436 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,680 watching the premises and seeing who was coming and going 437 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,680 and what their behaviour patterns were 438 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,480 and just planning how he was going to conduct his next attack. 439 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,920 The occupier went to bed, 440 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,360 and he could tell that by the lights moving from downstairs to upstairs 441 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:20,720 and then going out. 442 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,640 He would look to make sure there was only one person living there, 443 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,760 because by and large he wanted to attack premises 444 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,240 where somebody lived on their own. 445 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,080 One of the first things that I had to do 446 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,840 when I went over to look and do the, sort of, review on Operation Minstead 447 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,440 was to get up to speed with the old cases. 448 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:45,720 The most troubling of those 449 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:46,800 at that time 450 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,240 was a case in 1999 451 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:53,520 of an 88-year-old woman who lived on her own in a bungalow in Orpington. 452 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,360 At 3:00 in the morning 453 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,640 she's awoken by sensing that there's somebody in her bedroom, 454 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,320 and she looks up through the gloom 455 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,400 and sees that there's this man standing at the foot of her bed. 456 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,960 He put a gloved hand over her mouth and said, "I want your money." 457 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,400 And she sort of muttered something and he took his hand away 458 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,840 and she said, "Look, there's no money here in the bedroom. 459 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,360 If you want me to give you my money, 460 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,520 you'll have to get me up and take me to my living room." 461 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,600 And so he sort of pulled her up off of the bed, 462 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,200 ushered her through to the living room, 463 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,280 where she found her purse and her handbag 464 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:37,560 and she gave him the purse, 465 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:42,360 and he emptied the contents of the purse into his pockets. 466 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,320 He pulled her up from a chair that she'd been sitting in, 467 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,320 placed her on the edge of the sofa... 468 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,040 pulled up her nightdress and raped... 469 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,200 her several times. 470 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:00,440 And... 471 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:07,360 left her battered, bleeding, in such a state 472 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,360 that when she was able to raise the alarm 473 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,440 by pressing her CareLink panic button, 474 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,960 police attended and called an ambulance straightaway 475 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,480 and she was taken straight to hospital. 476 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,080 She required emergency surgery. 477 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,920 It's the closest that the Night Stalker ever came 478 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,360 to killing somebody there and then. 479 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,360 Had she not received medical help, she would have died, 480 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:33,640 would have bled to death. 481 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,840 She never went back to her bungalow where she'd been for 25 years. 482 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,080 She was discharged from hospital into sheltered accommodation... 483 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,520 and although the physical injuries had healed up, 484 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,960 the psychological injuries never did, 485 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,360 and she took that night of terror and pain to the grave with her. 486 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,040 She was very wary, very frightened, really. 487 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:02,360 You see, it ruined her life in a way, didn't it? 488 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,240 There she was, living in her own home, 489 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,040 and suddenly the world fell apart. 490 00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:13,920 She always used to say she hoped he would be caught before she died. 491 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,840 She had these terrible nightmares, so she dreaded the nights, 492 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,840 she dreaded going to bed 493 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,800 and going to sleep. 494 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,040 Well, it would be very difficult for me as a 56-year-old male 495 00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:25,720 to understand what an elderly victim would go through 496 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,400 in these circumstances. 497 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,560 These are people in their twilight of their years. 498 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,320 It must have been absolutely terrifying for them. 499 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,160 And in relation to that, 500 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,720 they were staying awake during the night 501 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,600 'cause they didn't wanna become one of his victims, 502 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,080 and they were sleeping during the day. 503 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,240 We saw it time and again with the victims. 504 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:44,560 There was this sort of stoicism. 505 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,000 It's the, you know, the spirit of the Blitz or something like that. 506 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,680 It's kind of... 'cause it was that generation... 507 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,400 and that's why they tried in some ways to block it out. 508 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:56,640 They weren't complainers. 509 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,520 They didn't like speaking to the police about what happened to them. 510 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,120 And we agreed that if the victims of the Night Stalker 511 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,720 had been aged between 18 and 36 512 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,280 rather than 58 and 96, 513 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,400 there would have been much more publicity 514 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:18,760 and that for some reason, the aged victims were not as newsworthy. 515 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,360 You can't name victims of sexual assaults, 516 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,720 and while that's quite right and quite understandable, 517 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,800 it meant that the suffering that they endured was somehow anonymised 518 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,360 and the impact of his crimes 519 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,880 I don't think was truly appreciated. 520 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,040 I have no doubt if it hadn't been that particular generation 521 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:39,400 that had been targeted, 522 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,080 more resources would have had to been brought to bear. 523 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,880 In May 2009, 524 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,680 I finally got my chance to see one of these crime scenes for myself. 525 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:56,840 You know, I'd immersed myself 526 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,320 reading all this detail about all these crimes going back. 527 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,080 It was down in Croydon on a road called Princes Avenue. 528 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:09,840 For me, it was interesting not just to see what an offence looked like 529 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,800 but to see how the team were responding to it. 530 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,800 This bungalow was the scene of the first Minstead Night Stalker offence 531 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:19,880 that I went to in person 532 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,880 after I started to go over there to do my review. 533 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,720 There was a 78-year-old lady who lived here on her own. 534 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,600 When we came to do our investigation, 535 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,920 we found that he'd gained entrance by that gate at the side 536 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,320 to the rear garden. 537 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,920 He'd actually been into another garden of a neighbour 538 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,480 and borrowed a pitchfork from their shed 539 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,520 and used that to force the window open at this bungalow. 540 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,120 She goes to bed, 9pm. 541 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,400 She's a frail woman, she needs a frame to walk with. 542 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:57,120 She's awoken at 4:00 in the morning by this, to her, huge man, 543 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,480 sitting astride her on her bed. 544 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,960 It's dark and he's holding her down. 545 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:06,240 At some point when the Night Stalker was on top of her, 546 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,280 he starts caressing her. 547 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,880 He asks her quite politely, "Would you like more," 548 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,400 and she equally politely declines and said, "No, thank you." 549 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,120 It's another one of these cases 550 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,520 where he has shown a degree of concern or care for the victim. 551 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,080 She needed to go to the toilet, 552 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,240 so she asks him if he'll go and fetch her walking frame and he does, 553 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,120 and she'd also tried to find an emergency pendant 554 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:29,560 on the bedside table, 555 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,800 but she didn't know the intruder had seen it first and hidden it from her. 556 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,000 He's asked her about things in the house. 557 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,120 He's rummaged through all her drawers. 558 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,800 And he's a bit frustrated because he can't find any money. 559 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,880 The ordeal this lady suffered was only about half-an-hour in length, 560 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,840 managed to find 20 pounds or so in coins and cash. 561 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,600 That was all that she lost. 562 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,760 Once he'd gone she locked the back door again 563 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,720 to kind of make sure he wasn't gonna come back, 564 00:31:58,800 --> 00:31:59,960 and went to sleep, 565 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,640 and it wasn't until after she woke up at 9:00 566 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,680 that she used the landline in the premises to raise the alarm. 567 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,400 When I arrived here, I saw what there was of the Minstead team, 568 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,720 very busy, knocking on houses doing door-to-door inquiries, 569 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,960 looking for CCTV, looking for any kind of clues, 570 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,960 evidence they might find in the locality, 571 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,280 just like they would do if it were a murder investigation. 572 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,120 So, I suppose, although it was the very first one I came out to, 573 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,520 really this was the sort of seeds to my thinking 574 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,760 that this comprehensive investigation of every single case 575 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:39,800 was just too resource intensive. 576 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,080 We were getting two, sometimes three a night 577 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:45,720 when he was busy. 578 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,880 You just cannot keep doing this kind of ultimate model of investigation 579 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,680 that you use for homicides. 580 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,760 I still think that may have been counterproductive 581 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,600 to finding a strategy that would actually take him down. 582 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:10,680 GOOD EVENING FROM THE SEVEN 583 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,120 Colin came in and, by thinking outside the box, 584 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:15,600 by taking a fresh approach, 585 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:20,120 he decided that this was someone that needed to be looked at 586 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,440 as a burglar rather than a sex offender. 587 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:24,520 Up until then 588 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,440 we'd only been looking at offences that involved a sexual assault 589 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,640 or very high Minstead indicator. 590 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,520 So what we decided to do was kind of target every single burglary 591 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,360 overnight on elderly people in South East London. 592 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,560 In that time period there would've been many more offences 593 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,280 where there was no forensic link 594 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,000 which had been carried out by the Night Stalker 595 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,320 and which where the police were totally oblivious to and unaware of. 596 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,640 I'd got my intelligence team to give me a print-out 597 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,160 of what could have been Minstead offences, 598 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,720 and that was where you got to about 100 offences. 599 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,160 We decided to just target our resources 600 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,560 where we could get things really quickly 601 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,920 and all aimed at identifying the offender, 602 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,160 not proving that he committed the offence. 603 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,280 All the evidence needed to put him in prison for a very long time 604 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,200 had already been preserved. 605 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:17,840 We didn't need to prove that he was committing these new offences. 606 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,760 We didn't need to get every available scrap of evidence 607 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,400 from these new offences. 608 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,400 We could treat them as intelligence opportunities. 609 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:29,880 In other words, 610 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,920 we can look at them to try and find the features of the offence 611 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,680 which might help us identify him. 612 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,560 I had a view that, if we were to use crime-pattern analysis 613 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,240 and sort of analytical minds to try and predict what was happening 614 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,560 and to understand where this man was offending, 615 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,400 then we needed to have all the information possible. 616 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,200 This change in the thrust of the investigation 617 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,760 gave birth to what was called Minstead Lite. 618 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,920 I was desperate to prove that Minstead was throwing away offences 619 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,560 and intelligence opportunities 620 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,680 by leaving crimes to be looked at and investigated by the borough, 621 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,240 and I thought I was gonna have to go through 622 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,320 years and years of crime reports to prove this. 623 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,840 But such a case fell into my lap. 624 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,600 By May 2009, the investigative strategy of Minstead Lite 625 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,360 was being written but hadn't officially come into play. 626 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,760 During that time there was an overnight burglary in Farnaby Road. 627 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,000 It was not an offence 628 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,640 that we would normally have taken on an investigation, 629 00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:31,480 but we applied the Minstead Lite principles 630 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,560 and went down there to use it as a test case. 631 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,680 The house was occupied by an elderly lady and her son, 632 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,160 who himself was in his 60s. 633 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:43,200 So it was given back to the borough to investigate. 634 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:49,280 He'd broken in, and he'd clearly broken in in the normal sort of way - 635 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,120 at the rear with a pane of glass - 636 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,560 and moved things around inside the house 637 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,320 but hadn't actually stolen anything. 638 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,680 He wasn't there for very long and decided for whatever reason 639 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,280 that he was gonna abort and leave, and he did. 640 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,520 And when the borough CID were investigating the crime, 641 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,400 the son of the victim told them 642 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,200 that there was a carton of orange juice in the kitchen 643 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,080 which seemed to have lessened in volume overnight, 644 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,560 as if somebody had drunk from it. 645 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,640 And he knew he hadn't, his mother hadn't, 646 00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:22,400 and the scenes-of-crime officer from the borough, doing the right thing, 647 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,760 swabbed the mouth of the carton, submitted it for DNA analysis 648 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,920 and very quickly afterwards 649 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,400 was presented with a full male DNA profile 650 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,720 which matched the other Minstead crime scenes. 651 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,560 We hadn't had a DNA hit now for about four years at that stage, 652 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,520 so it was significant that we knew it was the Night Stalker 653 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,160 and what that meant was we could draw on further resource. 654 00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:47,800 It also gave us a very, very good break 655 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,720 in that we had some CCTV from a nearby house, 656 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,600 and that was pretty much one of the first occasions 657 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,360 in the length of the inquiry 658 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,520 where we were certain that it was the actual Night Stalker. 659 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,480 We had the time that the intruder left the house 660 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,600 because the son, the victim, told us. 661 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:09,880 We went to the CCTV and we saw the bottom half of the Night Stalker 662 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,400 walking that way. 663 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,440 What we then did was look back on the same CCTV, 664 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,760 because we thought, "If he's walking that way, 665 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,600 he must have walked the other way to get there," 666 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,760 and he had, but what shocked us was how long before. 667 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,320 It was like three hours before. 668 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,200 He'd obviously been at that scene for a significant amount of time 669 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:28,720 and felt confident enough 670 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,880 to not only be in the vicinity of the Farnaby Road address 671 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,200 for three hours, 672 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,280 but he'd obviously done a burglary two or three doors down 673 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,920 and one round the corner on the same evening - 674 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,640 very confident that he wouldn't be caught. 675 00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:45,880 And since he'd only spent around about half-an-hour at the most 676 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,520 in this house, 677 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:53,320 we know he spent in excess of 2.5 hours sitting in that back garden, 678 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,520 watching the house, waiting for the lights to go out, 679 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,720 waiting for his time to strike and to break in. 680 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,360 And you can just imagine, can't you? He's sitting watching the windows, 681 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,640 and what he's waiting for is for all those lights to go out, 682 00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:08,840 you know, the downstairs ones to go out maybe, 683 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,600 the top-floor ones come on and then go out 684 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,120 and then makes his move. 685 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,680 Somehow that seemed really quite sinister to us, 686 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,520 the thought of this man sort of sitting unseen 687 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,520 in the dark in a garden, watching people in their own home. 688 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,400 The investigation had to change... had to change direction. 689 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,280 We had to change tactics. 690 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,280 We had to get one step ahead of him. 691 00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:37,160 The only way we were going to catch him 692 00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:39,120 was if we were to catch him in the act. 693 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,240 And that's why we had to become a night-duty burglary squad 694 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:43,960 and get out at night-time. 695 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,360 Had the police carried on the way they were, 696 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,520 before Colin arrived, 697 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,920 the Night Stalker would never have been caught. 698 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,600 It's as simple as that. 699 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,200 We were dealing with an evil human being, a ruthless individual. 700 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,880 Two things were certain - the Night Stalker would strike again. 701 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,160 That couldn't continue. 702 00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:05,480 I had to do everything I could to bring that to an end. 703 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,600 A large part of being a leader of any team 704 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,960 is to make sure that those on the team below you 705 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,880 are operating to the best of their ability, 706 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,600 and often that would mean 707 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,000 making sure they're doing the things they're good at 708 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,960 and you're giving the right tasks to the right people. 709 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,360 The proposal to go to Minstead Lite was surprisingly well received. 710 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:35,720 It depends on the situation 711 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,880 whether you're going to encounter resistance or not. 712 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,280 You know, it's... If you're going in raking over somebody else's work 713 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,640 and you tell them that you think they're not doing it properly 714 00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:47,880 and they should be doing it a different way, 715 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,360 then that's something that's quite inflammatory. 716 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:50,880 Nobody likes to be in that position. 717 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,960 I think at this stage in Operation Minstead, 718 00:39:54,040 --> 00:40:00,720 everybody was just accepting of the fact that we weren't coping, 719 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:03,760 and if it carried on in the way that it was going, 720 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,960 it was going to fall over. 721 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,160 I think in terms of the team, 722 00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:11,560 they saw it as a great sort of release for them, 723 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,120 because they were struggling under the burden 724 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,160 of trying to do this high-level, complete investigation 725 00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:21,840 for every single one of these crimes that was being reported. 726 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,160 Each morning when I went in... 727 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:29,360 there was kind of two streams of information 728 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,880 which might be able to tell me that there'd been an incident overnight 729 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,520 which was worthy of our attention. 730 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,720 The intelligence team on Operation Minstead 731 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,760 had a search which ran overnight every night or early in the morning 732 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,280 to see reported crimes, 733 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,240 not just in London actually but in the whole sort of home counties, 734 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,360 to see if there were any crimes that fitted our criteria 735 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,000 so they could flag them up, 736 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:53,840 and then on top of that, 737 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,240 you had the great awareness that there was 738 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,920 within the Metropolitan Police, particularly in South East London, 739 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,480 as to the possibility of Minstead cases. 740 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,880 There was an offence in June 2009 that chimed with the team. 741 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:09,440 It really struck a chord with the team 742 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,800 about how vulnerable these elderly people were. 743 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:17,680 There was a report of a burglary on a 93-year-old lady. 744 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,400 It was in his favourite hunting ground. 745 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,600 And given the age of the victim 746 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,520 and the interaction between the victim and the burglar, 747 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,600 it was clearly going to be something for Minstead to look at. 748 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,400 When I heard about this case, 749 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,640 I thought, well, if she's very frail and she's that old, 750 00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:37,080 there were dangers here, 751 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,920 so I'm gonna go down and make sure that we do everything we need to do 752 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,480 in case she takes a turn for the worse. 753 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,760 So I went down to Shirley, where she lived. 754 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,040 She lived in a large detached house 755 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,680 in prime sort of stockbroker-belt country. 756 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:56,080 And there was an elderly lady there, 757 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,640 hadn't said anything to the initial investigating officers 758 00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:02,000 from the borough or any of our officers until Colin arrived. 759 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:07,320 This lady was gradually becoming more and more infirm, 760 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:12,160 and she'd lost the sight in one eye and her mobility was difficult. 761 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,160 I went in, and one of the family liaison officers said to her, 762 00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:19,400 "Oh, this is Mr Sutton. He's the boss, you see," 763 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,320 so she said, "Oh, hello. Hello, Mr Sutton." 764 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,040 So I said, "Oh, no, you can call me Colin." 765 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:24,600 And I tried to sort of talk to her. 766 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,240 And she was - she had this lovely sort of cut-glass accent almost. 767 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,680 She was, you know, very well-spoken lady and... 768 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,760 even in the dire position that she was 769 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:37,240 she sort of maintained a dignity. 770 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:44,240 When I said hello to her, she extended her hand, and I took it, 771 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,840 and it wasn't to shake hands, it was to hold hands. 772 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:49,080 While she was holding my hand, 773 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,320 she got her other hand and put it on top, 774 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,960 so she was sort of hanging onto my hand with both hands, 775 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,960 and she pulled me in towards her 776 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,800 and almost whispered to me, "He interfered with me, you know." 777 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:07,080 And I realised in that second 778 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,640 the kind of courage that it had taken her to make that disclosure. 779 00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:13,240 She hadn't told the officers that were there before. 780 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,600 It was the first time we knew she'd been indecently assaulted. 781 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,520 She seemed to form a bond with Colin quite quickly, 782 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,160 and I know that she held his hand 783 00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:25,800 and she told him, the first person, 784 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,520 that she'd been sexually assaulted by the offender. 785 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,000 And that really... that seemed to affect Colin. 786 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:33,840 I just wanted to cry when she said that to me. 787 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,160 I just felt so, so sorry for her, 788 00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:39,040 and I kind of remembered that she was one of scores, 789 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,920 you know, 100 or more people that had been through this. 790 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,760 It was the first time I had met a live victim there and then 791 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,400 in her own home. 792 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,600 She only had, I think, one living relative, 793 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,520 and she was a daughter who lived in South Africa. 794 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:54,240 And she was unable to return at that time, 795 00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,200 and this lady from that day, she essentially stopped eating. 796 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,200 She gave up on living, really, 797 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,320 and it was only a matter of weeks and she was dead. 798 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,840 And I never saw her again. 799 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,960 Her daughter never saw her again. 800 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,320 And because of the difficulties with the causation, 801 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,360 there was never going to be any realistic prospect 802 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,160 of charging the Night Stalker with her murder or manslaughter. 803 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:23,680 But you know he killed her. 804 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,920 He killed her just as surely as if he'd stabbed her or shot her. 805 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:29,920 It just took a little bit longer. 806 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:41,360 You've got an offender here 807 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,120 who's breaking into homes in the middle of the night, 808 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,920 waking up his victims by shining a torch into their eyes, 809 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,480 sexually assaulting them. 810 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,480 It's not just terrifying for the elderly, 811 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:53,800 it's also terrifying for the families of the elderly 812 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,120 who'd be concerned about their mothers. 813 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,000 There's was often a balance to be struck in terms of publicity about it 814 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:06,400 because you've got the idea that you're going to arouse public fear 815 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,480 and you're gonna make people fear crime more than they ought to, 816 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,000 because the chances of it happening to them are quite small 817 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,920 but they'll see it in the newspapers and on TV 818 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:16,760 and think, "I'm gonna become a victim." 819 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:18,640 And you have to balance that 820 00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:22,000 with the idea that you're going to make people more aware 821 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:26,280 and that will make them take better precautions. 822 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,400 And you've also got the fact of what's the publicity going to do 823 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:30,600 in terms of the offender? 824 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,240 It could make him go underground. It could make him stop. 825 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:34,600 And there was a pattern which emerged 826 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,400 that he would go off the radar. 827 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:37,680 Perhaps he got nervous. 828 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,280 There was certainly a theory that one of the Minstead appearances 829 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,720 on BBC Crimewatch made him stop offending for a long while. 830 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,920 A 999 call tape was played, 831 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,840 and it kind of shamed him into realising what he'd done. 832 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:05,080 The fact is that if people are determined to break into a premises, 833 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,320 to a house, any premises, 834 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,440 then given enough time and equipment, they probably can. 835 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,680 Most of the security that you can equip your house with 836 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:17,280 is about delaying. 837 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,600 You know, it's things that will take time, 838 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:24,120 and the hope is is that while the person who's trying to break in 839 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:25,800 is spending a lot of time, 840 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:30,280 then they might be seen and somebody will call the police 841 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,360 and they might be intercepted. 842 00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,360 But it is very difficult 843 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,480 to make a house completely impregnable to a burglar. 844 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,320 Certainly many of the houses that the Night Stalker selected 845 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,160 for his victims had had very little spent on them. 846 00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:50,680 One offence that I remember quite well 847 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,960 is that there was an offence on 6 June 2009 in Queenhill Road, 848 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,400 which is South Croydon, 849 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,080 just off Selsdon High Street. 850 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,640 There was a Saturday afternoon in early June. 851 00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:03,840 It was the home of an 82-year-old woman. 852 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,360 She was living alone in a semidetached house. 853 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,400 She suffered quite badly from dementia 854 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,120 and she was having real difficulties 855 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,320 in expressing to the officers what had happened. 856 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:16,960 While we knew there'd been an intruder, 857 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:18,600 the lady who lived here on her own, 858 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,160 she couldn't give us any more details beyond that. 859 00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:22,840 So we didn't really know if anything had been stolen. 860 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,880 We didn't if she'd been assaulted, if there was any sexual assault. 861 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,600 It was very regular that he would target people who had dementia - 862 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:31,520 I personally think deliberately, 863 00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,040 but as you can imagine a lot of elderly people do have dementia, 864 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,360 and it makes it extremely difficult for the police 865 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,640 to get any information from them to help identify the offender. 866 00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:44,120 At the time, there was an extension being built on this house 867 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:45,800 in the next street. 868 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,640 It was like a building site there effectively, 869 00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:50,440 and he was able to get through there - it was insecure - 870 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:52,320 into the back garden of this house, 871 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:56,720 and it's from there that he removed the pane of glass and broke in. 872 00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:58,640 It was roughly on this spot here 873 00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:01,360 that Nathan Eason, my DI, and I had a conversation. 874 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,800 We had officers all around this street investigating this break-in, 875 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:06,840 and we didn't really know what had happened 876 00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,120 because the victim couldn't tell us. They were weary. 877 00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,320 They'd been responding to two or three offences a night 878 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:13,920 for most of that week, 879 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:15,800 and we were just chasing shadows. 880 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,840 And almost simultaneously Nathan and I said, "We can't keep doing this." 881 00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:21,760 His offending had increased massively. 882 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,760 We had a...you know, it's a large area of South East London. 883 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,000 Two million people live in that area, 884 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,520 but we knew the areas he favoured, 885 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,680 and I felt that, as did everybody else on the team, 886 00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:37,400 that if we had enough resources 887 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,160 we would be able to target the areas that he liked to offend in the most. 888 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,000 I'd had these sort of half ideas 889 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,120 that really some sort of proactive operation 890 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,560 was going to have to be the answer, 891 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,560 but I also knew that I'd need a lot of support 892 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,080 both from those on the team below me 893 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,760 and indeed a lot of support from those above me 894 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:56,880 if we were going to do it properly. 895 00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:58,400 Everything that the operation had been doing 896 00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,600 for most of its 17 years was focused on DNA. 897 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,520 And the major plank of what they were trying to achieve 898 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:10,240 was to take swabs from as many people on the list as possible, 899 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,080 until they took the swab from the right man 900 00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:13,120 and everything would be fine. 901 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,400 I took the view that wasn't gonna happen, 902 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,120 so we had to do something else, and that something else 903 00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:26,000 didn't involve doing an investigation of offences after they'd happened, 904 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,200 because quite frankly we'd been doing that for years and it hadn't worked. 905 00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,720 We needed something new. We needed a different approach. 906 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,920 A different approach had to be surveillance, 907 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,960 waiting for this prolific burglar 908 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,080 to come and commit an offence in front of our eyes 909 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:42,600 and catch him in the act. 910 00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,520 When I went across to Lewisham Police Station 911 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,040 to begin my review of Operation Minstead 912 00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,320 and I really didn't know anybody at all, 913 00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,960 Nathan was the first police officer I spoke to on Minstead. 914 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:03,040 He was supremely kind of supportive of me 915 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,640 and gave me his backing to everything I was trying to do, really, 916 00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:09,200 and I tried to repay that 917 00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,240 by keeping the pressure from above away from him 918 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:12,800 so that he could get on and do his job 919 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,640 and manage the team in the way that he did. 920 00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:18,000 By the kind of end of September, beginning of October 2009, 921 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,680 we were planning a very large proactive operation 922 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,520 in an attempt to catch the Night Stalker, 923 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,240 where we discussed what...you know, the resources that were required 924 00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:28,520 and obviously we had to get approval for the operational plan. 925 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,080 In the past I'd been involved with a burglar, 926 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,080 when I was a PC at Tottenham. 927 00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,280 A guy called Errol Dobson, he used take people's louvre windows out. 928 00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,000 And he wasn't sophisticated, 929 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:42,040 and we could just round up, you know, a dozen, 20 people 930 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,200 and sit and wait for him to commit the crime right in front of us. 931 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:46,720 The principle was the same, 932 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,680 what we were trying to do with the Night Stalker, 933 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,960 but he was so much cleverer. He was so much more cunning. 934 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,720 And he was doing it over such a big area 935 00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:58,640 that we needed to have our tactics and our resources refined 936 00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:01,160 in the same way if we were going to match him. 937 00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:04,720 I knew that if I was gonna do this surveillance operation 938 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,560 the way I wanted, I needed some help from all across the Met. 939 00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:13,560 So what I did was I booked a meeting room at Scotland Yard 940 00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:17,040 to see some people of equivalent rank to me. 941 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,320 I sent out an email to a dozen or so of them to say, 942 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,480 "Can you come to a meeting at Scotland Yard?" 943 00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,600 When I get there, there was probably twice that number of people, 944 00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:27,360 and I think that was really encouraging, 945 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,800 because, certainly my view from the time I'd been there, 946 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,960 I'd sensed, actually Minstead was a little bit of a backwater 947 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,600 that people got sort of shoved into and nobody really cared about. 948 00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,240 We went to the meeting. 949 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,320 Colin was able to persuade them that the plan looked like a good one, 950 00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:43,960 as we were essentially pushing against an open door 951 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,280 in relation to the senior echelons of the Metropolitan Police Service. 952 00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:48,680 It was just a case of 953 00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,440 did we have the right plan with the resources that we wanted. 954 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,800 I presented it, without a PowerPoint presentation 955 00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,200 or handouts or graphs or whatever. 956 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,080 I just kind of said, "You know, this is happening now. 957 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,560 We're in the midst 958 00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:09,520 of the most prolific spell of Minstead Man's activity in 17 years. 959 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:15,320 I've had a 93-year-old tell me that he interfered with her. 960 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,240 I've got an 88-year-old lady who's going for a HIV test. 961 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,240 You know, we need to stop it." 962 00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:23,680 What it took was guts, 963 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:25,920 because you are talking about 964 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:30,520 putting huge amounts of resources onto the streets, 965 00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,640 and the cost of that would be astronomical. 966 00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:37,040 Part of the operational plan was to have surveillance teams 967 00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:41,360 and observation points in areas where the Night Stalker was active. 968 00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,760 The first step on the road to the surveillance operation 969 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,680 really was to work out where we were going to do it. 970 00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:50,760 Colin wanted to draw up an area 971 00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:56,080 which could feasibly be watched by a dragnet operation. 972 00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:59,120 Initially, when the intelligence analyst started looking at this, 973 00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:00,240 produced the very first map 974 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:01,320 and it was huge, 975 00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,040 and so we had to refine it. 976 00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:04,760 We went back to the drawing board 977 00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,640 and we found another area still in that Shirley cluster 978 00:53:07,720 --> 00:53:09,160 but in a smaller area. 979 00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:12,720 Even so, something like one in every six Minstead offences 980 00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,520 took place in the area, 981 00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:17,280 and that was a smaller area we were able to control 982 00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,480 with, we thought, around about 70 officers. 983 00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,840 So that was the plan which was hatched, 984 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,720 and that was the plan I took to the force tasking group. 985 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,760 As a result of that meeting, a call went out across the Met, 986 00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:30,000 to all the murder teams, 987 00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:33,640 asking for DCs to go over and work on the case, 988 00:53:33,720 --> 00:53:37,840 and I volunteered to go, as it was a case I wanted to get involved in. 989 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,120 It had the backing of the commissioner - 990 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:41,160 Paul Stevenson at the time - 991 00:53:41,240 --> 00:53:44,960 and it had the backing of the senior management team at the Met. 992 00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,600 However, if it resulted in no-one being found 993 00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,240 and a huge bill for overtime being submitted 994 00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,600 then there was only one person that was gonna get the blame, 995 00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:57,360 and that would have been Colin. 996 00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,440 When the proactive operation began, 28 October, 997 00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,360 it was ran from a very large control room up in Vauxhall, 998 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,760 it's called Central 3000. 999 00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,080 It's an absolute sort of state-of-the-art facility 1000 00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:24,160 that its primarily used for very serious things 1001 00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:26,280 like terrorist or kidnap incidents. 1002 00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:31,680 It's essentially a large room with lots of sort of desk consoles 1003 00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,440 with computers and telephones and radio channels on them 1004 00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:40,640 and along one wall is a bank of... I think it's 18 screens. 1005 00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:44,440 There was a surveillance control, there was the operational control, 1006 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,040 which either myself or Colin were running, 1007 00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,400 and there were other officers monitoring assets 1008 00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,120 in the control room, 1009 00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,560 so there's probably about 16-20 people 1010 00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:54,640 in the control room at any one time. 1011 00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:58,040 You had a very large number of officers out on the streets, 1012 00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:59,760 and we had Minstead officers 1013 00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:03,480 that were going to monitoring addresses where we had alarms in. 1014 00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:06,280 Everybody was static, 1015 00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:10,920 tucked away in a place where anybody walking or driving through the area 1016 00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,800 would just have no chance of seeing them. 1017 00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:18,520 And to back that up, apart from we had some air support, as well, 1018 00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,240 but we had a mobile surveillance team 1019 00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:26,360 that was situated outside the area that we were surveilling. 1020 00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:32,040 The reason for that was that if we stopped four people 1021 00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,400 during the course of the investigation 1022 00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,960 who weren't the Night Stalker, 1023 00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,640 that the word would get on the sort of grapevine 1024 00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:41,760 that the police were doing a big operation there, 1025 00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,760 and it would effectively blow the surveillance. 1026 00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:46,480 It'd be no good anymore. 1027 00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:51,040 The night shift would start with a briefing at Lewisham Police Station, 1028 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,040 and there'd be about 70 officers including the surveillance teams. 1029 00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,200 We'd be given an update on the case... 1030 00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,360 Either myself or Colin would brief on what was expected of them, 1031 00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,600 what their roles were, what to do in the event of anything happening. 1032 00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:07,560 I was allocated the role of being in a mobile unit in a car, 1033 00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,960 and I was with two other officers, in the area but out of sight, 1034 00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,200 and to be in radio contact with the rest of the team. 1035 00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,120 And then they would be sent to their operational areas 1036 00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:19,800 with the right communication and the right assets and resources. 1037 00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,160 And then everybody goes down to Shirley. 1038 00:56:23,240 --> 00:56:27,200 They're in their OPs by 11pm. 1039 00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,840 I'm at Central 3000 with the inside team there, 1040 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:32,760 waiting for this prolific burglar 1041 00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,920 to come and commit an offence in front of our eyes. 1042 00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,120 And, you know, the time came it started to get light 1043 00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:10,440 and we thought, "Well, he's never gonna come." 1044 00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:12,560 And nothing happens essentially. 1045 00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:14,760 Very little moves all night. 1046 00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:19,120 One or two vehicles pass by, no pedestrians, and we all go home. 1047 00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,880 First night of surveillance passed through, we thought, 1048 00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:31,160 without any incident. Nothing happened. 1049 00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,160 It wasn't until I got back into Lewisham the next morning 1050 00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:38,120 that I found out that overnight there had been three burglaries 1051 00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,920 which we thought were almost certainly Night Stalker jobs. 1052 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:46,440 And those offences had happened just outside the boundary 1053 00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:48,080 of our surveillance operation. 1054 00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,600 The first two were in this road here. 1055 00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:56,560 The first of those was an attempt where he failed for once 1056 00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,920 to get the glass out and didn't manage to get in, 1057 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,880 so he tried again at another house just down the road. 1058 00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,680 Now, the annoying thing about this 1059 00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:09,280 is that this location here is literally 100 yards north 1060 00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:11,640 of where our surveillance area started. 1061 00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:15,640 He was that close to us on the very first night and we've missed it. 1062 00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:19,000 But there was more to it than that, 1063 00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:25,200 because the third burglary took place about a mile in that direction, 1064 00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,720 just down by the Royal Bethlem Hospital. 1065 00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,000 The only way that the Night Stalker could have got 1066 00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:34,280 from this burglary here to the third one down there 1067 00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:37,480 was right through the plot where we were doing our surveillance. 1068 00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:41,880 It was obvious a vehicle must have been used. 1069 00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,960 You couldn't walk from the second to the third burglary. 1070 00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:47,080 And when you looked at the map, 1071 00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,920 the only logical way to drive that journey 1072 00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:53,080 would be straight down our plot. 1073 00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:57,360 There was a school which had CCTV on Orchard Way, 1074 00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:02,200 and there were a couple of frames that showed a vehicle going past 1075 00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:04,520 at about the right time. 1076 00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,160 And although it was a very grainy shot 1077 00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:08,440 and it just showed the top of the car, 1078 00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,040 we were able to show that to the experts 1079 00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:15,040 and they were able to identify it was a Vauxhall Zafira 1080 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:17,840 and what sort of model and the colour. 1081 00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:19,480 They also found a man 1082 00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,440 who used to work for the Metropolitan Police, actually, 1083 00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:24,000 and he lived on Orchard Way 1084 00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,400 and he had his own CCTV 1085 00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:29,200 on his own cars on the drive. 1086 00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:34,120 There was enough to show a car parking up 1087 00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:36,960 adjacent to where somebody would have gone 1088 00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:38,640 to commit the third burglary, 1089 00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:40,520 and even at one point 1090 00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:44,440 his footage showed somebody walking around the car. 1091 00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,840 All of a sudden we knew what sort of car, 1092 00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:50,640 what make and model and colour was driven by the Night Stalker, 1093 00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:52,440 and that appeared a huge step forward, 1094 00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,880 but I had to kind of temper the optimism 1095 00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,440 because I'd been there before in other cases, 1096 00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:03,920 and just knowing a make, model and colour of a car is a start, 1097 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,840 but it can mean a whole load of work beyond that 1098 01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:11,320 to try and find that one car and to use it evidentially. 1099 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,120 And what I did know was that if we were going to do that, 1100 01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,080 we wouldn't going to have time to do the surveillance. 1101 01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:17,320 It was a kind of either/or. 1102 01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,080 The resources either had to be on finding the car 1103 01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:21,640 or doing the surveillance. 1104 01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,720 Having worked with Colin, 1105 01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:26,320 I knew him and trusted him 1106 01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:30,200 and had faith in what he was doing 1107 01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,240 and could understand the logic behind his thought process 1108 01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:38,160 and wanted it to work and believed it would work, 1109 01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:41,440 and, you know, that kept the whole thing going. 1110 01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,440 We're doing the surveillance. That's our main choice. 1111 01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:52,360 After the investigation that took place when I first joined the team 1112 01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:57,240 was that the Night Stalker was stealing victims' cashpoint cards 1113 01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,960 and then going to a nearby cashpoint 1114 01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,800 and using the card to withdraw money. 1115 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:04,160 When he started in 1992, 1116 01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,160 almost all pensioners got their state pension 1117 01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,080 with a book at the post office in cash. 1118 01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:12,600 But then obviously technology came along, 1119 01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,360 and people had bank cards to prevent cash being stolen. 1120 01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:18,080 What he did was he started taking their debit cards 1121 01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,440 and most of them were so frightened or terrorised by him 1122 01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:24,120 that they gave him the PIN numbers. 1123 01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:25,960 After he'd committed his rapes 1124 01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:28,840 he went to their bank and withdrew money. 1125 01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:30,440 One of the areas we targeted 1126 01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:32,320 for the main surveillance operation in October 1127 01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:33,960 was a cashpoint in Honor Oak, 1128 01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:35,760 which was attached to an off-licence. 1129 01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:37,240 The relevance of that 1130 01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:41,920 was is that in 2007 the Night Stalker had used that cashpoint 1131 01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,480 with victims' credit cards to get money out of their accounts. 1132 01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:52,640 We were pretty certain it was him, 1133 01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:54,480 but there was no detail, they weren't able to assist us. 1134 01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:57,480 It was such a disappointment. 1135 01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:00,400 He'd obviously wanted to keep himself just as secure 1136 01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:02,360 from any cameras around the cashpoint 1137 01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:05,600 as he did when he went in to commit the offences. 1138 01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:10,240 As the 2009 proactive operation began to gather pace, 1139 01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:14,560 we decided to get some better-quality cameras fitted 1140 01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,080 in that area around that cashpoint in Honor Oak. 1141 01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:19,160 As a result of that, 1142 01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:21,480 we got some really good images of the Night Stalker 1143 01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:23,720 when he came from two addresses 1144 01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,960 with the victim's credit card and attempted to withdraw cash. 1145 01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:29,600 Unfortunately, we didn't see his face, 1146 01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:33,640 but there's some excellent detail in the clothing, his height and build, 1147 01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:35,600 which gave us really good intelligence. 1148 01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:41,640 A couple of nights after this, 1149 01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:46,640 there is another attempt to use a stolen debit card at a cash machine. 1150 01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:50,320 The cash machine this time was at a branch of the HSBC bank 1151 01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:52,880 that was then on the corner of West Fulham Road. 1152 01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:57,040 The local police had been round with kind of public appeal posters 1153 01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:58,960 about Operation Minstead 1154 01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:01,640 with an EFIT on of Minstead Man, 1155 01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:04,400 and the bank, being public spirited, 1156 01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,520 had put one of these posters in their window, 1157 01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:08,760 and the poster in the window 1158 01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:11,680 was literally three feet away from the cash machine. 1159 01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:15,360 So, you've got Minstead Man standing there, 1160 01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,120 trying to steal money from one of his victim's accounts, 1161 01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:23,440 and just there by his head is an E-Fit of him staring at himself. 1162 01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:25,880 As it turned out previously, 1163 01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:29,040 he didn't need to worry because he looked nothing like the EFIT. 1164 01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:32,600 That's all I'm gonna say about that. 1165 01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:45,040 That first night was, for all intents and purposes, 1166 01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:48,160 really quite quiet for all of us involved in the investigation. 1167 01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:49,240 When we went in 1168 01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:50,560 for the second night of surveillance, 1169 01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:53,000 it occurred to us that the reason 1170 01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:57,080 we hadn't been aware of these offences going on the night before 1171 01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:00,640 was that we weren't monitoring the CAD messages live. 1172 01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:01,840 CAD is shorthand for: 1173 01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:05,680 Essentially it's just electronic messages. 1174 01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:07,520 They get passed between police stations 1175 01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:09,040 and police operational units 1176 01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:11,440 and from the centre, which is New Scotland Yard. 1177 01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:14,600 On the second night of the main proactive operation, 1178 01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:16,280 there was an interesting development. 1179 01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,160 We picked up a CAD from Lambeth, 1180 01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:20,840 and what had taken place 1181 01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,920 was that a woman had been in bed 1182 01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:28,200 when she heard what she thought was somebody going through her side gate. 1183 01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:31,080 She was certain somebody was trying to break into her house. 1184 01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:34,400 She dialled 999, the call was dealt with 1185 01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:36,760 with the kind of seriousness and priority that it should had been. 1186 01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:40,720 Uniformed officers were dispatched to the address. 1187 01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:42,520 He came into the room, saw her on the phone, 1188 01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:45,160 took it from her, threw it away and ran. 1189 01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,520 And he ran down the road as quickly as he could, 1190 01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:50,440 and a police car came round of the T junction 1191 01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:52,600 and they drove up towards it 1192 01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:54,800 and he veered off and went down the side of a house, 1193 01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:56,480 down sort of an alley, 1194 01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:58,800 where the car couldn't go, so an officer got out of the car, 1195 01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,880 a young officer, fit officer, gave chase. 1196 01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:04,560 It was an incredible account. He chased him for nearly two miles 1197 01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:09,040 through streets parks, rivers, over walls and fences. 1198 01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:13,760 And eventually over a wall and into the carpark of a megastore, 1199 01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:16,240 and when the officer came over the wall, 1200 01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:20,440 he couldn't see where this figure he'd been chasing had gone, 1201 01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:22,880 and he'd got away. 1202 01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:25,040 But we were that close. You know, he was that close. 1203 01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:27,880 We were ten seconds behind Minstead Man at one point. 1204 01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:30,120 I remember one of my colleagues telling... 1205 01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:31,240 you know, it was incredulous... 1206 01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:32,800 He just couldn't believe he'd got away. 1207 01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:35,640 That by the time he'd got to top of the wall, he had disappeared. 1208 01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:37,200 But you could hear a pin drop in there. 1209 01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:42,200 It was a very, very tense moment for the people at the controls, 1210 01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:46,880 thinking that any second we might actually have him. 1211 01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,440 He might actually be in the custody with a police officer. 1212 01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:51,120 But of course it didn't happen. 1213 01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:55,280 From that we realised that the Night Stalker must be a very fit man 1214 01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:58,880 who is able to run quickly and for quite a long time. 1215 01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:00,560 What could happen? Well, he could just stop. 1216 01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:02,840 He could just go to ground. 1217 01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:04,720 He could just give up. 1218 01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:06,680 He could say to himself, 1219 01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:10,560 "You've had a good run. You're going to get caught if you keep going. 1220 01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:12,800 You better stop now." And he might not ever offend again. 1221 01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:14,240 Colin wanted to keep it out of the press 1222 01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:18,440 because he didn't want to risk the suspect going to ground 1223 01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:20,960 and then us losing the opportunity to actually catch him. 1224 01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:23,800 I had a reasonable enough relationship with Colin 1225 01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:27,400 to ring him up, and he was at pains, great pains, to say, 1226 01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,480 "Please desist from publishing this story." 1227 01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:33,760 There was a possibility that it could drive him undercover. 1228 01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:37,160 Obviously we weren't to be aware at that point 1229 01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:40,960 of the huge operation that had been launched by the police 1230 01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:42,960 to try and find him. 1231 01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:44,640 Immediately after the second night 1232 01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:47,000 when he was almost caught in Southwark, 1233 01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:51,880 we then had a two-week period where it was absolutely quiet. 1234 01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:55,240 Silence. No indications that he was out and about on the streets. 1235 01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:57,240 No calls, no information whatsoever, 1236 01:06:57,320 --> 01:06:59,760 and we were concerned that he'd gone to ground, 1237 01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:01,560 which obviously gave us the indication it was him 1238 01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:02,800 that was chased. 1239 01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:06,760 I was absolutely confident that if we stayed there, 1240 01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:08,120 eventually he'd come back 1241 01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:09,960 and he'd commit a crime in front of us. 1242 01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:11,800 I just couldn't put a time limit on that. 1243 01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:15,560 I was gonna keep my nerve. 1244 01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:17,240 The team were ready to keep their nerve. 1245 01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:19,440 It was a question to me as to whether those above me 1246 01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:21,160 would sanction it to keep going. 1247 01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:24,120 I was encouraged by the senior management of the MPS, 1248 01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:26,960 who essentially held their nerve and stayed with it, 1249 01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:28,160 but we were very concerned 1250 01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:30,040 that he could seriously injure or kill somebody, 1251 01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:31,600 so obviously that was one of the factors 1252 01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:32,800 they had to take into account. 1253 01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:34,360 And so we kept going and we kept going 1254 01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:37,960 and we kept going and kept going. And we'd now done 16 nights, 1255 01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:42,280 and from a personal point of view, it was absolutely fatiguing. 1256 01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:46,080 In the two-week period afterwards, I wasn't available. 1257 01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:47,440 I was on a course at Hendon, 1258 01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:51,680 and so Colin was running the operational side up in Central 3000, 1259 01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:53,200 so he was on his own. 1260 01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:56,200 So for two weeks he couldn't help me out with the control room 1261 01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:58,200 or at Lewisham during the day, 1262 01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:01,480 so I'm doing the briefing at 9:00, 9:30 at Lewisham, 1263 01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:04,520 going in and doing effectively a night duty 1264 01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:07,080 until half 5:30, 6:00 in the morning, 1265 01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:09,880 going home for a few hours sleep, 1266 01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:12,720 back into Lewisham again for 9:00 for the briefing. 1267 01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:14,760 The surveillance went on for a couple of weeks, 1268 01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:16,880 but despite the time that it was taking, 1269 01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:18,960 I still had faith in Colin 1270 01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:22,080 and that the operation was going to be successful. 1271 01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:26,800 Surveillance work can be sometimes quite boring, really, 1272 01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,640 because for most of the time nothing happens, 1273 01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:32,840 but you can't afford to take the chance of falling asleep. 1274 01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:34,840 You've got to be alert and awake. 1275 01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:37,760 We really, really wanted to get hands on this guy, 1276 01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:40,920 and we were all behind Colin 1277 01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:45,840 and supporting...his plans, really, to keep it going. 1278 01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:56,440 I finished my course on Friday 13 November. 1279 01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:58,440 I realised he was probably exhausted, 1280 01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:01,280 so I offered to do the weekend and potentially the week after that, 1281 01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:04,320 so I was up there on Friday the 13th of the evening. 1282 01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:06,760 I said, "Well, you know, I'm sorted out tonight, 1283 01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:09,560 but come in on Saturday. Do Saturday and Sunday, 1284 01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:12,240 and I can have two days off. That would be fantastic." 1285 01:09:12,320 --> 01:09:13,920 That Saturday night I... 1286 01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:19,080 I stayed at home for the first night for, you know, nearly three weeks 1287 01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:23,280 and watched the football, had a glass of wine or whiskey or something, 1288 01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:25,720 and it was sort of relaxing time and me to catch up on my sleep. 1289 01:09:30,440 --> 01:09:34,440 We started at the normal time on 14 November, about 11pm, 1290 01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:37,360 and it was a pretty quiet evening from my memory. 1291 01:09:37,440 --> 01:09:39,800 Nothing particularly exciting happening at any the cashpoints 1292 01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:41,160 and in any of the areas. 1293 01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:45,520 And then in the early hours we got a call over the radio 1294 01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:47,960 from one of the officers in one of the observation points. 1295 01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:52,640 The Vauxhall Zafira was seen nearby old people's type housing, 1296 01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:54,000 from one of the observation points, 1297 01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:56,280 and that had been put up to the whole team. 1298 01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:59,080 Soon after that, a man fitting the description of the Night Stalker 1299 01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:01,840 was seen running from one of these houses. 1300 01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:04,280 The suspect running towards a Vauxhall Zafira 1301 01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:06,000 was exceptionally important to us, 1302 01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,680 because we'd identified prior to that night 1303 01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:11,040 that the Night Stalker was using a type B Vauxhall Zafira. 1304 01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:13,240 So as far as we was concerned, game on. 1305 01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:17,640 And he got in the Zafira, the lights came on and he drove off. 1306 01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,800 And he drives off up Orchard Way, 1307 01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:26,400 where there are lots of static observation posts. 1308 01:10:26,480 --> 01:10:30,440 Now, the plan was not to stop anybody or to arrest anybody 1309 01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:32,120 here on the plot, 1310 01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,200 because if it was the wrong man, 1311 01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:40,400 we'd probably have the details of our surveillance operation leak out. 1312 01:10:40,480 --> 01:10:42,720 An officer or two from the OP went to the actual address 1313 01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:44,640 where he was seen coming from, 1314 01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:47,280 and the information I received back in the control room 1315 01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:50,400 was it looks like that address had been attempted to be forced. 1316 01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:52,840 You know, in my mind I'm thinking, 1317 01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:55,480 "Well, he's not a resident of this address, 1318 01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:59,400 so it's likely to be a burglar, hence the Night Stalker." 1319 01:10:59,480 --> 01:11:02,640 The Night Stalker was driving quite quickly for some of this. 1320 01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:04,960 He got up to nearly 60mph in parts. 1321 01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:06,800 I'm convinced, and so are the rest of the team 1322 01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:08,480 that he knew he was being followed 1323 01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:11,880 and that he essentially tried to get away by speeding. 1324 01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:13,840 What the surveillance team were able to do 1325 01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,720 was somebody using his local knowledge took a side turning 1326 01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,240 and went on ahead of him to slow him down, 1327 01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:25,760 which enabled the following surveillance team to catch up. 1328 01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:30,000 By now we have a convoy of about four police vehicles, 1329 01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:35,040 and one of those vehicles is equipped with covert, blue lights and sirens. 1330 01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:37,680 He couldn't know that when we stopped him 1331 01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:41,320 it was because we'd followed him all the way from Shirley. 1332 01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:45,200 We just wanted him to think it was a random stop in the street, 1333 01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:47,040 so that if it was the wrong man, 1334 01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:50,040 then we wouldn't jeopardise the surveillance operation. 1335 01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:54,800 You can see we're on a reasonably wide and busy sort of main road, 1336 01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:57,480 and that's fine, because we can keep control, 1337 01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:01,240 but then the Zafira indicates and turns left 1338 01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:03,880 onto a very different road. 1339 01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:06,280 The character of the buildings changed. 1340 01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:09,200 Suddenly we're into a residential street. 1341 01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:12,080 It's very much the sort of place 1342 01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:15,360 where the Night Stalker would make his attacks. 1343 01:12:15,440 --> 01:12:18,000 So, a decision was made to stop him there and then, 1344 01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:20,680 so he couldn't get away, get out the vehicle and do a runner. 1345 01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:23,760 It became an easy decision for Nathan to say, "Strike now." 1346 01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:30,560 It was utter confusion when he gets stopped. 1347 01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:33,240 I phoned one of the Operation Minstead sergeants 1348 01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,040 and I asked him to find out what was going on. 1349 01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,320 Had he been spoken to? Who was this man? 1350 01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:39,760 Get some information off of him, 1351 01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:42,080 so that we didn't make an unnecessary arrest. 1352 01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:44,080 The officer asked him a few questions 1353 01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:45,440 that led him to believe 1354 01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:50,120 that we had a person who was very likely to be our Night Stalker. 1355 01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:51,920 And the officer asked him his name 1356 01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,800 and he said his name was Kelvin Grant. 1357 01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:58,440 The officer said, "OK, have you got any ID on you?" And he said, "No." 1358 01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:01,240 And they started to have a look, and he saw in that... 1359 01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:05,000 could see in the centre console of the car there was some cards, 1360 01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:06,640 and he saw the name on there was: 1361 01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:12,880 Some of the clothing from, I think it was in August 2009, 1362 01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:15,440 that he wore when he approached the cashpoint with his hood up 1363 01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:18,880 and gloves on etc, that clothing was found in his car - 1364 01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:21,080 direct link from images we had 1365 01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:23,240 from the cashpoint to his arrest. 1366 01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:26,960 When they looked in the glove compartment of the car, 1367 01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:29,240 there was a balaclava-ry, woollen sort of hat 1368 01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:31,240 which fitted with the description 1369 01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:35,640 given by so many of the Minstead victims after their crimes. 1370 01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:38,120 When they looked in the boot, there was even more sort of evidence, 1371 01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:43,360 because there was a grey fleecy top, 1372 01:13:43,440 --> 01:13:47,480 can of petrol, pair of shoes, a crowbar and a big screwdriver. 1373 01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:50,400 The Night Stalker was finally stopped 1374 01:13:50,480 --> 01:13:52,280 and the handcuffs were put on him 1375 01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:55,920 and we were able to identify him as Delroy Grant. 1376 01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:01,040 Delroy Grant was arrested. 1377 01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:11,200 About 1:30 my mobile rang and it was Nathan. 1378 01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:14,400 And he uttered the immortal words, 1379 01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:16,920 "Hello, Colin. I think we've got him," 1380 01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:20,760 to which I replied, "Are you joking?" 1381 01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,200 And he said, "Would I really ring you up at 1:30 in the morning 1382 01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:24,640 and joke about something like that?" 1383 01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:27,600 As far as I was concerned, the description, the method, 1384 01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:29,080 the vehicle he was using, 1385 01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:31,840 some various items that were seen through the vehicle window 1386 01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,000 prior to it being removed, 1387 01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:36,640 we were pretty certain that he was our man, 1388 01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:39,160 so we were happy, very happy. 1389 01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:42,200 No, I didn't feel any guilt that I'd been in the control room 1390 01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:44,440 when the Night Stalker had been arrested and Colin wasn't - 1391 01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:45,600 I felt none at all, 1392 01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:47,640 and it was the butt of many jokes, as you can imagine, 1393 01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:49,360 for weeks and weeks afterwards 1394 01:14:49,440 --> 01:14:50,640 that I'd been on a course, 1395 01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:52,360 stepped in and that night he'd been arrested. 1396 01:14:52,440 --> 01:14:54,680 The simple fact was there was no way I was going back to sleep, 1397 01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:56,680 because I was just too sort of excited and wound up 1398 01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:59,000 by hearing the story of his arrest, 1399 01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:01,480 so I drove into Lewisham and went into the charge room, 1400 01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:05,200 and that's when I was introduced to Delroy Grant for the first time, 1401 01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:08,240 and I finally got my eyes on Minstead Man. 1402 01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:11,080 One of the officers sort of said, "This is Mr Sutton. He's the boss," 1403 01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:12,320 and... 1404 01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:14,640 Delroy Grant shook his... shook my hand. 1405 01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:16,880 He extended his hand, shook hands, bowed his head. 1406 01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:19,520 A bit of a surprise that he was so polite 1407 01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:20,960 and so sort of deferential. 1408 01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:22,480 I've never had somebody 1409 01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:25,480 who was so willing to strike up an irrelevant conversation 1410 01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:28,160 and to kind of prolong it as he was. 1411 01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:31,400 It was a window to me 1412 01:15:31,480 --> 01:15:35,880 to the kind of Delroy Grant that people were going to tell us about 1413 01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:37,760 over the coming weeks. 1414 01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:40,440 What struck me was how fit he was for a man of his age, 1415 01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:42,480 and then all the scenes I'd been to... 1416 01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:44,560 some of the windows that he'd managed to enter, 1417 01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:46,440 and I remember standing there with Colin saying, 1418 01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:48,160 "How did somebody get into that window?" 1419 01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:50,280 And it all started to come together 1420 01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:52,960 of how wiry, muscular and how flexible he was, 1421 01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:55,080 and that just gave me even more reason 1422 01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:57,200 to believe that we'd got the right person. 1423 01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:03,320 They booked him in and they took his clothing from him and bagged it, 1424 01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:04,440 in case it was evidential, 1425 01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:06,480 and there's a very obscure provision 1426 01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:08,840 in the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1427 01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:11,200 whereby interviews can be conducted with people 1428 01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:13,360 if there is a life at risk 1429 01:16:13,440 --> 01:16:14,880 without solicitors and rights. 1430 01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:18,200 And the officers said to him, "Look, have you been anywhere? 1431 01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:21,040 Is there an old lady lying somewhere with injuries 1432 01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:23,880 who needs medical assistance because you've been there tonight?" 1433 01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:26,040 He was quite sort of chilling in his reply when he said, 1434 01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:29,720 "I've not visited anybody tonight." 1435 01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:34,400 That was his reply, "I've not visited anybody tonight." 1436 01:16:34,480 --> 01:16:37,040 When he was asked to give his fingerprints, 1437 01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:40,440 he made an off-the-record comment, if you like, 1438 01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:43,080 to the officers doing it, saying, "It's pointless you doing this. 1439 01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:45,120 You know that I always wore gloves." 1440 01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:47,240 A sample had been taken when he'd been arrested, 1441 01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:49,000 which is pretty standard. 1442 01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:52,040 That was then couriered by officers by hand 1443 01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:53,560 to the Forensic Science Service. 1444 01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:57,440 The opened up their lab, and by 4pm that afternoon 1445 01:16:57,520 --> 01:17:01,840 it was confirmed that we...it was him, and he was the Night Stalker. 1446 01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:04,040 Delroy Grant was 53 years old. 1447 01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:07,320 He lived in Brockley Mews in South East London 1448 01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:09,160 with his second wife, 1449 01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:13,600 who suffered from degenerative and progressive multiple sclerosis. 1450 01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:19,240 After Grant was charged, I became the family liaison officer, 1451 01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:21,920 which is an unusual thing to happen, 1452 01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:26,160 but in this case the family really were victims of his, as well, 1453 01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:29,120 because they were innocent people 1454 01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:32,480 who all of a sudden had their world turned upside-down 1455 01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:34,160 by what had happened. 1456 01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:36,760 It was obvious the police were searching the house 1457 01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:38,240 and it didn't take long 1458 01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:40,880 for the local community to realise who had been arrested 1459 01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:44,080 and where he lived, so their lives were... 1460 01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:48,080 made incredibly difficult by what had happened. 1461 01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:51,560 Despite the DNA hit, they still couldn't believe that their father 1462 01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:53,440 was the Night Stalker. 1463 01:17:54,840 --> 01:17:56,440 He was a good father. 1464 01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:58,360 He enjoyed cricket. 1465 01:17:58,440 --> 01:18:01,160 People spoke of him well. 1466 01:18:01,240 --> 01:18:04,480 No-one really had anything bad to say on him. 1467 01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:06,120 He's such a nice guy 1468 01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:08,720 but I just can't... The shock... It's unbelievable. 1469 01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:11,720 You know, totally devoted to his wife and children, 1470 01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:13,760 and as I said, it's just come to a shock 1471 01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:16,680 in this small, tight-knit community. 1472 01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:21,280 He was registered as someone that was a carer for his wife, Jennifer. 1473 01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:26,360 Of course, the only footnote perhaps to add to it 1474 01:18:26,440 --> 01:18:27,880 is that the car he was driving, 1475 01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:30,600 the car he was allotted on the Motability Scheme 1476 01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:33,000 for driving Jennifer around, 1477 01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:37,120 was also the car he was driving out to the scenes of his attacks. 1478 01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:40,720 So it really was like he was living this kind of double life, 1479 01:18:40,800 --> 01:18:44,720 and in the early days of his incarceration at the police station, 1480 01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:47,840 there was an officer taking him some food into his cell. 1481 01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:51,000 He said to her, "I've got a thing about this DNA, really." 1482 01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:52,600 He said, "You need to be really careful. 1483 01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:54,160 I don't want to drop anyone in it, 1484 01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:58,320 but you do want to check my son's DNA, 1485 01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:00,720 'cause I understand it could be quite close to mine, 1486 01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:05,280 and I think it's quite likely that he's committed these offences, 1487 01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:07,400 not me, so you need to have a look at my son," 1488 01:19:07,480 --> 01:19:11,800 at that point trying to throw the suspicion off himself, 1489 01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:13,320 which is breath taking, really. 1490 01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:18,520 The question that everybody wanted answered after he was arrested 1491 01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:20,520 was was he in the system? 1492 01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:21,920 And what they meant by that was 1493 01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:23,480 did we have a file on our database 1494 01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:25,280 relating to Delroy Grant? 1495 01:19:27,480 --> 01:19:30,400 And the answer to that is yes. 1496 01:19:30,480 --> 01:19:34,720 At the start of his spree in the summer of 1999, 1497 01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:38,520 he committed a burglary in Bromley. 1498 01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:42,520 The local Neighbourhood Watch coordinator had seen a BMW car 1499 01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:45,800 acting suspiciously at the time of a burglary 1500 01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:49,600 and he'd taken the number of that BMW. 1501 01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:54,400 He saw a man get out of the car, put a balaclava on, 1502 01:19:54,480 --> 01:19:57,680 put a set of gloves on and go towards his neighbour's address. 1503 01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:01,280 What happened - that was investigated by Bromley Borough. 1504 01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:02,920 Bromley Borough officer 1505 01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:05,200 did some cursory police national computer checks 1506 01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:06,800 and found two Delroy Grants 1507 01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:09,680 that she thought were likely to be the suspect. 1508 01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:13,320 One had an address in Leicester, one had an address in Dulwich. 1509 01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:15,840 Not unreasonably, she assumed that the Dulwich one 1510 01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:18,320 would be the one she was looking for, 1511 01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:19,960 because it was South East London. 1512 01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:24,520 That man, that Delroy Grant, was the wrong one. 1513 01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:27,400 The one that lived at Brockley Mews had formerly lived in Leicester. 1514 01:20:27,480 --> 01:20:29,280 That was our Delroy Grant, the one we arrested, 1515 01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:31,080 the one that was in the cells. 1516 01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:33,960 Where it was crucial to Operation Minstead 1517 01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:38,120 was that the wrong Delroy Grant had had his DNA taken 1518 01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:41,600 when arrested for other offences, and was on the database. 1519 01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:46,160 So when they asked for the DNA from the Minstead crime scene 1520 01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:49,280 to be compared to Delroy Grant's DNA, 1521 01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:53,680 they compare it to the wrong one, the wrong DNA - there's no match. 1522 01:20:55,080 --> 01:20:56,920 And from that point onwards, 1523 01:20:57,000 --> 01:21:00,640 Delroy Grant of Brockley Mews is on the Minstead computer 1524 01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:03,680 as eliminated by DNA. 1525 01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:09,840 What's also just a salutary lesson to how these things should be checked, 1526 01:21:09,920 --> 01:21:14,560 in 2001 somebody did phone the incident room and say, 1527 01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:16,840 "I've seen all your publicity about Minstead 1528 01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:20,760 and I think Delroy Grant of Brockley Mews could be your man. 1529 01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:22,480 I think he might have done it." 1530 01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:26,320 The first thing they do is they go to the database - 'eliminated by DNA'. 1531 01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:30,920 Even if they had swabbed all the 20,000 people on their list, 1532 01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:32,800 he wasn't one of them. 1533 01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:39,760 So that mistake, that assumption and lack of checking by that one officer 1534 01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:42,560 poisoned it forevermore, 1535 01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:46,440 and Delroy Grant had another ten years of liberty 1536 01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:50,680 and dozens more old people were victimised while he was free. 1537 01:22:03,440 --> 01:22:05,640 He pleaded not guilty 1538 01:22:05,720 --> 01:22:11,920 and ran what can only be described as the most incredible defence 1539 01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:14,160 I think I've ever heard. 1540 01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:18,800 Essentially he said that his first wife in 1979, 1541 01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:24,080 when they were splitting up, had saved semen from when they'd had sex, 1542 01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:26,800 when she had employed a third person 1543 01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:30,360 to deposit it around the crime scenes. 1544 01:22:30,440 --> 01:22:33,800 It was just a fantasy defence of the very first order. 1545 01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:36,040 It was just completely incredible. 1546 01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:38,720 Thanks to Tim and Kaye. We'll just break in. 1547 01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:41,440 We've got some news coming in from Woolwich Crown Court. 1548 01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:43,480 This is where the trial of Delroy Grant, 1549 01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:47,280 accused of being the notorious Night Stalker, is taking place. 1550 01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:50,880 Delroy Grant, the man accused of being the Night Stalker, 1551 01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:54,240 has been found guilty of 29 counts 1552 01:22:54,320 --> 01:23:00,040 of preying on 18 elderly men and women between 1992 and 2009. 1553 01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:03,560 They said that he was responsible for some of the most awful 1554 01:23:03,640 --> 01:23:05,720 and disturbing crimes in the history of Scotland Yard. 1555 01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:07,520 So that's a line just coming in to us there, 1556 01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:11,840 that the police are apologising for missed chances to stop Delroy Grant. 1557 01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:13,160 The judge said 1558 01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:16,680 that he would have to serve 27 years 1559 01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:21,720 before he was eligible to apply for parole from his life sentence. 1560 01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:26,160 And that means that the absolute youngest that Delroy Grant could be 1561 01:23:26,240 --> 01:23:30,200 before he's released back into the world would be 81 years old. 1562 01:23:30,280 --> 01:23:32,560 And were that to happen, 1563 01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:36,400 I guess we have to think that he would be... 1564 01:23:36,480 --> 01:23:38,920 you know, he'll be posing little threat by that time. 1565 01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:44,600 The number of offences that we had by the time that I left 1566 01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:48,040 are that he was involved in 204, 1567 01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:50,200 many of which included indecent assaults 1568 01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:52,960 and five of which included rapes. 1569 01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:55,480 He was a sexual predator 1570 01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:57,480 who just committed 1571 01:23:57,560 --> 01:23:59,480 the most barbaric crimes 1572 01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:00,720 with meticulous planning, 1573 01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:03,760 some of which we probably don't know about. 1574 01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:08,720 It may well be that a lot of his victims suffered at his hands 1575 01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:11,120 but suffered in silence 1576 01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:13,280 and never actually reported them 1577 01:24:13,360 --> 01:24:15,440 but carried it with them to their graves. 1578 01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:18,080 Most of them are deceased now unfortunately. 1579 01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:21,040 I hope the families don't think about him, and they're just... 1580 01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:25,120 they can get a very small iota of satisfaction 1581 01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:28,440 in the fact that he is no longer doing the same things 1582 01:24:28,520 --> 01:24:30,640 to other people that happened to their families. 1583 01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:32,880 We went through an exercise with family liaison officers 1584 01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:35,920 of phoning and telling the victims that somebody had been arrested, 1585 01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:39,360 and one of the victims said that back to her, she said, 1586 01:24:39,440 --> 01:24:42,320 "That's great. I can go back to sleeping at night now." 1587 01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:45,960 I think he thought he was invincible. 1588 01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:47,240 I think he thought he'd never get caught. 1589 01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:50,360 He was arrested on the 17th day of the surveillance operation. 1590 01:24:51,720 --> 01:24:55,840 So you had 17 years on the one hand, 17 days on the other. 1591 01:24:55,920 --> 01:24:58,400 It was only Colin's fresh impetus 1592 01:24:58,480 --> 01:25:01,400 which led to Delroy Grant being caught. 1593 01:25:01,480 --> 01:25:05,400 I always knew that I wanted to go to get in front of him. 1594 01:25:05,480 --> 01:25:09,440 I believed from really early on that we needed to ignore the DNA, 1595 01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:10,760 we needed to catch a burglar. 1596 01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:14,360 Everybody kept telling me, "We're not a burglary squad." 1597 01:25:14,440 --> 01:25:16,800 They needed to be a burglary squad. 1598 01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:18,520 That's when we got him. 1599 01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:21,560 Captioned by Ai-Media ai-media.tv 139161

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