All language subtitles for Dark side of 90s S01E01_English

‐I thought the most
outrageous thing

I could do in this lifetime

was to have sex with 300 men,
so I did it.

‐In the '90s,
talk shows are the most

provocative thing on television.

‐You had Oprah, Sally, Phil,
Geraldo, myself.

‐At one time,
there were two dozen talk shows

competing in the marketplace.

‐You need to find your own man.

‐And the most violent.

‐The fists would start flying,
the chairs would start falling.

‐They literally tore
the place apart.

‐No boundaries
go uncrossed.

‐You can't just do this to me!

‐None delved as low
as Jerry Springer.

‐We were the bad guys.

‐Until a murder...

‐You rub two sticks together and
you get fire.

‐...forces a reckoning.

‐It literally became
a matter of life and death.

♪♪

[ Internet dial up ]

♪♪

‐It is very hard to forgive you
for what you did to me,

but I do forgive you.

[ Applause ]

‐Daytime talk shows.

No other form of media mirrors

the American psyche
quite like them,

‐How many women have gone
to the grave

never saying anything?

‐Today, people are revealing...
‐And in the 90s,

they flood the airwaves
completely.

‐At one time, there were
two dozen talk shows

competing in the marketplace for
essentially the same audience.

‐Oprah, Sally,
Phil, Geraldo, myself.

Marilu Henner,
Charles Perez,

Vanessa somebody that was on
"The Cosby Show".

‐We all went after those topics

that people
had never seen before.

‐What starts out as a forum
to discuss social issues

and current events quickly
devolves into pure spectacle.

‐"Oprah" was
like the mom show.

And then you had "Maury".

‐When it comes to
three‐year‐old Kanaya,

you are not the father.

‐That was "You are
not the father"

or "You are the father."

Jerry Jones was like more of
a social issues kind of thing.

‐You never fit in?
Shy? Bookworm?

‐Yeah.
‐Geeky, sort of?

‐But when it comes to trash TV,
one name says it all.

‐[ Audience chanting
"Jerry!" ]

[ Cheers and applause ]

‐"Jerry Springer" was the show
where everybody would fight.

‐Obviously, she's not doing
something right in the bedroom

or he wouldn't be coming ‐‐
‐[ Audience shouts ]

‐That was the fighting
show, and, like,

and that's kind of
what people would tune in for

and it's definitely
what people would go

to tapings of the show to see.

[ Cheers and applause ]

‐None delved as low
as Jerry Springer.

‐Here she is ‐‐ Mom!

[ Cheers and applause ]

‐He was the absolute lowest
of the low.

‐[ Audience chanting
"Jerry!"]

‐I'm Robert Feder.

I'm a journalist who's been
covering the media in Chicago

for more than 40 years.

‐[ Audience chanting
"Jerry!" ]

‐The irony is that there was
a point

at which
"The Jerry Springer Show"

was the number one talk show
in daytime television.

It actually beat
Oprah Winfrey at its peak.

And yet it was a talk show where
there was very little talking.

People didn't talk.

It was about the conflict
and the "Jerry! Jerry!"

I think most people
were watching it and saying,

"Who are these people?"

‐The guests, especially on a
show like "Jerry Springer",

they want to feel like they're
leaving a mark on the world,

and, you know,
unless they become

a serial killer
or sprout two heads,

how are they going
to get on television?

‐You say you've been a dog.

Who have you been a dog
with?

‐Her best friend.

‐[ Audience cheering ]

‐My name's Laura Grindstaff.

I'm a professor of sociology
at UC Davis

and I'm the author
of a book titled

"The Money Shot:

Trash, Class, and the Making of
TV Talk Shows".

‐She also once worked on
"The Jerry Springer Show".

‐I think most people
who are in college

in the '90s watched at least
some "Jerry Springer".

‐Me and my roommates
would watch "Jerry Springer"

and just smoke, like, terrible
dirt weed all the time.

[ Laughs ]

My name is Katie Rife,
and my first job out of college

was as an associate producer
on "The Jerry Springer Show".

I think it was the car
crash quality of it,

you know, the kind of gawking
at a car crash thing.

‐You can't just do this to me!
No!

‐Make it interesting
with the sound off,

because a lot of people are just
flipping through the TV.

You hit
"The Jerry Springer Show",

it's got to make them
want to stop.

I'm Richard Dominick,
and at one time,

I was the executive producer
of "The Jerry Springer Show".

Can we back up a little bit?

‐In 1991,

Dominick is first hired
to be

just one of Jerry Springer's
half dozen producers.

‐When I first started
on "Springer" in Cincinnati,

I didn't know
what to expect.

I knew he was a newscaster
and he won an Emmy Awards

for being the most popular
newscaster in Cincinnati.

And then all of a sudden,
this guy came in

and he just looked like a wreck.
His hair was all messed up

and he had on a sweater
that was too big

and he had sneakers on
and jeans.

And we started talking and
making jokes and he sat down.

He lit a cigar, and
I was a cigar smoker,

and we just hit it off
right away.

‐What a lot of people don't
remember about Jerry Springer

is that Jerry Springer
was the mayor of Cincinnati

who literally had
to step down from office

because he got caught paying
a prostitute with a check.

‐He had written a check
to a sex worker,

and so he was traced back
to that sex worker,

and, you know.

So he had a bit
of a scandalous past himself,

even when he was a politician.

And so people knew him before
"The Jerry Springer Show".

‐If you've just joined us,
this is our first show,

and we're putting together
people

who haven't seen each other
for 35 years.

‐Back before I took over
the show,

when it was a very
serious program,

the people running the show,
Multimedia Entertainment,

they go over step by step,
word for word,

what they wanted him to say.

And he's dressed
in a banker suit

and he's got these big,
stupid glasses on

like Larry King,
you know, those big things.

And his hair
was all slicked back

and he looked so uncomfortable.

It was like they had programmed

or were trying to program
a robot,

because in their head,
he was Phil Donahue.

‐Springer launched his talk show
as a sort of Phil Donahue lite.

‐People often think about
the origins of talk shows

as sort of beginning
with Phil Donahue.

He really innovated this format.

He explored reproductive rights,
child custody issues, equal pay.

He had the silly moments
on there, too,

but he tended to mix
the political,

the personal, and entertainment
together in a kind of package

that was more
socially conscious

than you would sort of see
coming up afterwards.

‐This audience wants in here.

‐Phil Donahue, on one occasion

to try to contain
an unruly audience member

who started yelling out
questions in the audience,

Phil Donahue literally stepped
across a light grid

and put a microphone
in the person's mouth.

That's what started
the audience

getting an opportunity
to speak back.

‐"Phil Donahue, Phil Donahue,
Phil Donahue."

That's all I ever heard.
"Phil Donahue."

And I was so tired
of hearing Phil Donahue's name.

To the people running
"The Jerry Springer Show",

he was a god to them.

And Jerry didn't want to be
the next Phil Donahue.

I just thought, "My God,
this isn't right.

This is not the guy."

The guy who I met upstairs
on the sixth floor ‐‐

he's a TV guy.

People are going
to like that guy.

They're not gonna
like this guy.

‐Jerry Springer was going to be
a serious talk show host.

One of the famous lines
he said at that time was,

"You won't see me dancing
with the Chippendale dancers."

Well, that turned out
to be quite ironic,

since that would
have been mild

compared to what the show
eventually evolved into.

[ Laughter ]

[ Audience cheering ]

‐If you go back and look at the
original "Jerry Springer Show",

the original
"Jerry Springer Show"

was as calm as Phil Donahue

and even calmer
than my show.

‐We have a nice surprise
for you today, okay?

You are going to meet
your daughter, Sandy,

who you have not seen
in 35 years. Sandy?

[ Applause ]
Sandy?

‐When I think back to that
first season in Cincinnati,

in my opinion,
it was just dreadful, boring,

and he had a million and one
cards in his hands, and...

it wasn't working
and it was obvious

it wasn't going to work.

‐For its second season,

Multimedia Entertainment
and NBC‐owned studios team up

and relocate "The Springer Show"
from Cincinnati to Chicago.

The move does little
to boost their ratings,

but for Richard Dominick,

it means a promotion
to executive producer.

‐I was asked to take over
the show,

so I said, "Yeah,
of course, absolutely."

And they said, "We're going to
cancel the show in November."

And this was April.
It was like, ay‐yi‐yi.

So that's when we decided,
"Hey,

let's turn the tables
on everybody

and let's keep the show
on the air."

And if we could stick it
to Multimedia

and we can make this work

and we can stay
on the air past November,

great.
It'll be a battle won.

‐To turn those tables,

"The Jerry Springer Show"
will take its cue from one

of the most brutal episodes
of television ever aired.

‐In the '90s,
"The Jerry Springer Show"

will evolve into a spectacle
of violence and human indignity.

But that inspiration
actually starts with this guy.

‐Let me tell you
the story of Geraldo Rivera.

In 1986, Geraldo Rivera's career
had come to a standstill.

He had been a high profile
correspondent for ABC News

when Tribune Entertainment

approached him about doing a
live special

from the Lexington Hotel
in Chicago

to uncover
whatever hidden treasures

or secrets
were in the vault in this hotel

that was once controlled
by Al Capone.

[ Gunfire ]

The hype was relentless.

For weeks,
people were talking about

what's Geraldo going to find in
Al Capone's vault,

and at the final minutes
of the special,

they break through
the vault walls

and what they find
is absolutely nothing.

‐All right.

We'll be right back after these
commercial messages.

We'll see what
we got here.

‐No bodies, no treasure,
no guns, no nothing.

And then the ratings
came out the next morning,

and it turned out to have been
the highest rated syndicated

special in history.

For an encore,

Tribune Entertainment
hired Geraldo Rivera

to host a talk show.

‐That Capone
special proved that all sizzle

and no steak could still
deliver meaty ratings.

But on his new talk show,

Geraldo decides
to see what happens

when you serve up
real controversy.

‐Fast forward to when
the chair incident occurred.

‐Okay.
[ Cheers and applause ]

‐The show featured a panel
of young

white supremacists youth, who
are sort of pitted against

a black activist,
Roy Innis.

Things got very heated
and a fight erupted.

A brawl erupted.

‐[ Audience shouting ]

‐This was a shocking moment.

But the ratings went through
the roof,

and in a way, it sort of set

the stage for ‐‐ gave permission
for other shows

to kind of follow suit.

‐Geraldo got his nose broken,

and that became the new standard
of outrageous television ‐‐

the conflicts, the fighting,

the emotion that was allowed
to be presented on daytime TV.

‐Many talk shows switched gears
by infusing conflict and topics

designed to shock.

‐I defy any of the hosts back
then to say

that they weren't approaching

and trying to do
the most salacious topics

that they could possibly do.
And that was all of us.

A lot of people, you know,
look back and don't remember,

you know, Oprah was the one
who put on, for the first time,

she started showing strippers.

She started showing you,
you know, call girls.

She started showing you
a segment of society

that no one had ever got
a chance to see before.

‐As trashiness becomes
the new standard,

it becomes clear
that Jerry Springer

needs to change his image
if he hopes to stay on the air.

And his new executive producer

is the perfect person
to provide the makeover.

‐We kind of knew
we were getting canceled,

so that's when we decided,
"Let's go have some fun."

So right away, boom,
we changed everything.

Now, we got a chance not to be
Phil Donahue.

We had a chance to be
Jerry.

In a second,
the snap of the fingers,

Jerry went out there
and was himself.

Jerry never knew
what they were going to say.

Jerry went with the flow, and
that's why Jerry was so good.

And that's why the show
worked.

He got rid of everything,

all that burden,

those chains they had
wrapped around him ‐‐ gone.

‐In 1994,

the new and improved
"Jerry Springer Show "

hits the airwaves.

‐He also told me that, you know,
he was in love with you

and he's going to marry you.
Bull[bleep], bitch.

[ Audience cheers ]

So that was the beginning of it,
of the nightmare of television.

[ Laughs ]

And I happened to be brushing
down at her tail end,

and she lifted her tail up
and...

[ Audience laughs, groans ]

There it was in all its glory.

[ Audience groans ]

‐In the beginning,
we did some really marvelous ‐‐

"I Married a Horse".

It went out on the air,
9:00 in the morning

in New York City

and it got pulled immediately
out of national syndication.

And we were almost fined
and closed down for a while.

We did shows like that.

‐There was virtually
nothing of human depravity

that could be imagined

that wasn't considered
appropriate for that show.

‐I thought the most
outrageous thing I could do

in this lifetime was to have sex
with 300 men.

So I did it.
[ Chuckles ]

‐The Springer Show
quickly catches up

to the tabloid‐y content

that the other shows
are experimenting with.

‐I'm really a man.

[ Audience cheers ]

‐A man who cut off
his own male organ.

‐But the outrageous topics

stop others dead
in their tracks.

‐I remember one particular show

that the producer
asked me to do,

and I was told over
and over again, "Look, you know,

Sally just did it last week.

Phil just did it last week.
Oprah just did a piece about it.

You need to do this."
And I was like,

"I can't stand this topic," and
I'll tell you what it was.

The topic was something
called infantilism,

where these people used
to dress up as babies,

and Sally Jessy Raphael
had did a show

where she literally
put people in baby pens

and put people in diapers
literally on her set.

And I left fingernail marks

down the hallway
going into the studio

because I just didn't feel
right about doing this topic.

And I was like, you know,
"I'm not doing that. Period.

They can come out
and talk to me,

but I'm not going to have them
dress up like little babies."

‐While the theatrics repel
some talk show hosts,

Jerry Springer embraces it
completely.

‐We did the Siamese twins
connected to the head

and one of them's on the gurney,

and it had to be more than
just talking to them.

So one of them liked
country music.

"Really? Okay. How would you
like to perform?"

‐♪ Walking away ♪

♪ I saw a side of you ♪

♪ That I knew was there
all along ♪

♪ And that some day... ♪

‐And you had this marvelous
piece of television.

‐You can draw a line

from the freak shows,

touring vaudeville freak shows
of the 1930s

to "The Jerry Springer Show".

There is a direct line there.

They serve
the same cultural purpose,

which is for the average person
to tune in,

look at these people and go,
"Well, my life's not so bad."

[ Laughs ]

‐It was Richard Dominick
who brought

not only a new energy
to the show, but

a complete lack of morality,
a complete lack of any concern

for whether the guests on
the show were being exploited

or whether the product
being put out

was even decent for consumption
by audiences.

‐It never gets acknowledged
that people

who have never been
on TV before,

who were never considered
important enough to be on TV,

had their moment, had their
chance to tell their story.

‐Does your mom know what you do?

‐And then all of a sudden,
the numbers were going up,

and suddenly, they realized,

"Hey, maybe we got
something here."

The two big syndicators
that carried us,

they were excited that
their numbers were going up.

They didn't care what we were
putting on the air.

They're selling advertising and
making money and they want more.

‐The only metric that mattered
to Richard Dominick

was the ratings.

He was willing to do anything
he could to succeed.

‐He doesn't love you!

‐By its fourth season,
"The Jerry Springer Show"

makes a profound switch.

No longer content
with what critics

call "freak show voyeurism",

physical fights begin
to dominate every episode.

[ Audience cheering ]

‐The fists would start flying,
the chairs would start falling

before you even knew
what was going on.

‐Oh, my God. They got Klans guys
picking up chairs

and throwing them
into the audience.

And oh, that lady got up
and pulled the wig off

the other lady and started
beating her with the wig.

And you never saw anything
like that before.

‐If anyone should be credited
with what happened,

it is Richard Dominick.

Jerry Springer
was just along for the ride.

Richard Dominick is the guy
who drove the car off the cliff.

[ Audience cheering ]

‐O.J. Simpson is sitting
in the back seat

and he has a gun at his head.

‐If there's one image
that defines the shift

in media during the 1990s,
it's this,

the slowest high speed
chase ever captured on video

as O. J. Simpson flees police
in a borrowed white Ford Bronco.

The manhunt and the trial

that follow
become a media spectacle.

‐The jury deserves to get
the truth.

‐And break records by pulling in
a television audience

of over 150 million viewers.

‐Not only was it a media circus,

it was like this tourist
attraction for a while.

It was really bizarre
with all of the courtroom drama

and the characters that emerged
from the courtroom drama.

‐If it doesn't fit,
you must acquit.

‐The O. J. Simpson trial
allowed TV news to go

where it hadn't gone before.

‐Hugh Grant
and Elizabeth Hurley,

the perfect
show business couple.

But in the early hours
of this morning,

Hugh Grant was seen by officers
picking up unknown prostitutes.

‐Celebrity lives and personal
lives and sexual proclivities.

It became much more salacious.

‐I did not have sexual relations
with that woman,

Miss Lewinsky.

‐They didn't use
the term "reality television"

at that point, but that is kind
of what it was sort of like,

this ongoing observational
reality drama.

‐It's time to make sense
of America's healthcare system.

‐In those years,
Jerry Springer said,

"Why is it okay
for the local news to do that

when all I'm doing
is I'm bringing people on,

they're talking about
the same thing?"

‐Who's got the man living
with her? Me or her?

‐[Bleep]

‐What are you doing? No.
Don't take your boot off.

‐Huh?

[ Audience cheering ]

‐But "The Springer Show's"
penchant

for turning personal issues
into high stakes drama

soon takes a hard left
turn to violence.

‐Working behind the scenes,
first as an intern

and then
as a production assistant,

of course, I saw plenty
of fights on stage.

I mean, it was, at that point,
almost expected.

The bouncers who were at every
show always had something to do.

‐You get people up there
and they're telling their story

and somebody says something,
they get mad, they get up,

and they whack them.

Women did that a lot.

‐You need to stay
out of her life,

and you need to find
your own man.

[ Cheers and applause ]

‐When two women got up
and were angry,

they literally tore
the place apart.

‐[ Audience chanting "Jerry!" ]

‐And that happened
almost immediately

because when we started to deal
with real people,

with real subjects,
the real things that happened

in their life,
you got to expect real emotion.

‐It was about putting violence
on television.

It was about the unexpected,

and it was about drawing
a crowd.

Who doesn't stop to look
at a car wreck?

‐You rub two sticks together
and you get fire.

So it's quite orchestrated.

But then what's always
the spontaneous,

sort of "authentic" part of it

is exactly how people react
and how far do they go?

‐None of the violence
can take place

without producers
handpicking guests

who are willing to unleash their
rage on national television.

‐It's always, "Oh,
they put on trash people."

They weren't trash people.
They were good people.

"Oh, they put on sluts
and this and dope addicts."

Stop it already.
We didn't ‐‐

These are good, solid people
who came on the show

and probably had more guts
than half of the people

out there
who criticized them at the time.

‐[ Audience booing ]

‐Sometimes, you would get people
who genuinely thought

that they didn't have
any other option

except for trying to
resolve it this way.

Some people were honestly
just messy,

messy people who loved drama

and wanted a free trip
and wanted attention.

‐They would fly in people
from all over the country.

They would put them up
in hotels,

give them a room service
allowance.

They would drive them
by limo to the studio.

And this could be
the biggest day of their lives.

‐When all the guests
arrived in Chicago,

you kind of get them settled
in their rooms

and then you take them out
to dinner.

[ Glasses clink ]

I was on the family drama team,

and a big part of
hanging out with the guests

was you were kind of making sure
that they didn't get too drunk

to show up to the show
the next day.

They must have had a problem
with that in the past,

because I remember
being explicitly told

to make sure
they don't get too drunk.

And then the next day,
they would come into the office

and meet the producer.

And the producer is the one
who would get them all riled up,

tell them, "You need
to confront her,

you need to clear the air,

you need to tell everybody
the truth,"

and all this kind of stuff,
and the producer's

the one that would get them
all ready to come out on stage.

‐[ Audience cheering ]

‐Everything that producers do
from the moment

they put the feelers out
to find guests,

finding other people
to go on the show with them,

everything is really geared
toward getting the money shot.

And by that, I mean this sort
of expression of raw emotion

on the part of the guests.

‐Tell me we will still try to be
friends, please.

‐This could be
dissolving into tears.

‐This could be erupting in rage
and disbelief

when you find out
your boyfriend of seven years

has been sleeping
with your best friend.

And that's what producers
want to see.

That is the goal, right,
of ordinary people

performing on television
during this era.

The money shot is that moment
when a guest loses their cool.

‐[ Audience cheering ]

‐Yeah, I got your hair, bitch!
I got your hair!

That's right, bitch!
That's right!

‐One of my most memorable days

on "Jerry Springer" is
my producer

hands me a list of groceries
and some cab fare and says,

"Go buy everything
on this list at the store."

And it was all
Thanksgiving foods.

This was an episode
where we had a family

that was having
some kind of drama.

They sat all the members
of this family down at a big,

long table

with all this soft throwable
food in front of them.

And it was a food fight.

‐You know what? I'm not losing
weight for you!

‐[ Cheers and applause ]

‐I remember one of the women
in the family

was just really upset.

She was really upset
with how this was going.

It was kind of dawning on her
what was really happening.

And during
the commercial breaks,

I remember standing there
asking her

to please not touch her face

and please don't wipe the food
off of her face for continuity.

And she's like
very emotionally upset.

She's realizing what's
happening. She's humiliated.

And I couldn't even offer her
any kind of sympathy

or comfort in that moment,

because my main job
at that moment

was to make sure that she looked
as ridiculous as possible

when the commercial break
was over.

That was the moment I felt
the absolute worst to be there.

‐One of my jobs was to help
make sure

that the guests left the stage

and went to the green room
and got their things together,

and there's a saying
in the industry,

"Bring them in by limo,
send them home by cab,"

because now that
they've delivered

what you need them to do,

they, you know ‐‐
let's get them out the door.

‐With "The Springer Show"
grabbing headlines

by getting humiliating money
shots out of its guests,

other shows scramble
to keep up.

‐Your son.
[ Cheers and applause ]

"The Jenny Jones Show"
succeeds

when one guest
makes front page news

when he murders another guest.

‐We're good friends.

‐Well, guess what? It's Scott
that has a crush on you.

‐You lied to me.

[ Cheers and applause ]

‐In the '90s, personal conflict

becomes a staple
of daytime talk,

and no one hits below the belt
like Springer.

That is,
until Jenny Jones pushes

one of her guests too far.

‐Now, which of these ways
would you choose to reveal

your secret crush on someone?

A ‐‐ would you write
that person a letter?

B ‐‐ would you tell the person
in private

in case he rejects you?

Or C ‐‐ would you tell that
person that you're gay

and you hope he is
on national television

in front of millions?

[ Cheers and applause ]

‐There was a man who was asked
to come on

"The Jenny Jones Show"

and someone was going to reveal
a secret crush to him,

and then it turned out to be
another man who we already knew.

And this had kind of been
going on off camera

already, where the one guy
was kind of aggressively

pursuing the other guy
and he wasn't interested.

And then it elevated
to a new level

when it was on
national television.

‐Did you have any idea
that he liked you this much?

‐No, no, no.
I did not.

‐Can you tell us
what your status is?

I mean, are you involved
with anybody or....

‐No, but I am definitely
heterosexual,

I guess you could say.

‐Three days later,

the person who was the object of
that crush murdered the guest.

‐He goes home and he sees a note
written by Scott,

that, "If you really want
to get it off,

I'm the only one
who has the right tool."

‐The show didn't actually
even air. It was a taping.

And it was a couple of days
after the taping

that Jonathan Schmitz
killed Scott Amedure.

‐...his brother's death.

‐But because they're
both men and Schmitz

did not identify as gay,

he felt humiliated
by the admission.

There was a lot of debate about,

well, was Jenny Jones
really responsible?

‐Jenny Jones is called to
testify

and is questioned about
her demeanor on the show

and how she seemed to relish
in Jonathan's discomfort.

‐Did you ever think that
if you didn't go for that

extra little set up to pull
that last bit of emotion out,

that maybe this terrible
tragedy,

this terrible tragedy
which brings us together

today wouldn't have occurred?

‐I don't know what you're
talking about.

On the stand,
she had very little to say.

‐The whole industry,
in some ways,

I think had a certain liability.

‐I think it was the idea
that it could have happened

on any of these shows

and it happened to be "The
Jenny Jones Show" that it was.

There was a reexamination

of what was going on
with the foreman.

Are these ambushes right?
Is it moral? Is it proper?

Are they encouraging violence?
Have they gone too far?

‐Now it literally became
a matter of life and death.

‐It was at that point
that Oprah really kind of said,

"I'm doing a different
kind of show now."

And not coincidentally,

she became much more focused
on celebrity guests.

‐The murder doesn't just
make Oprah clean up her act.

Montel,
Jenny Jones, even Geraldo

decided
to change directions.

‐You had everybody running
like chickens without a head.

The one that really gets me
is Geraldo.

The biggest ‐‐

Here he's got a show
called "Geraldo",

and he's trying to do
what we're doing

and he thinks he's cool

when he's being who he is.

And then all of a sudden,
that happens.

Jenny Jones ‐‐ boom.

And all of a sudden,
the next day,

it's "The Geraldo Rivera Show",

and now he's wearing his glasses

because he's going to do
an intelligent show,

and he looked like a moron.

Okay, Geraldo,
if you happen to see this,

you looked like a moron

because you're a hypocrite,

and all of a sudden,
you ran scared.

‐Richard Dominick
looked at the same set of facts

and he went
in the opposite direction.

He decided, "If all of these
other talk shows

are going to pull back
from the outrageousness,

we're going to move forward."

‐Let's hear what Anna has
to say about this.

The other woman.
Here's Anna.

[ Cheers and applause ]

‐[Bleep]

‐Jerry Springer continued
on doing what he does best,

which is to provide
a cultural cartoon

for the entertainment
of viewers.

‐When the Jenny Jones murder
happened,

it rocked television.

Honestly,
did not rock us at all.

‐In fact, "The Springer
Show's" ratings soar

and they claim
the number two spot

in daytime television,
right behind Oprah.

But not everyone is impressed
by Jerry's success,

and soon, the media start
pinning the Jenny Jones murder

on both Springer
and Richard Dominick.

‐People turned on our show
as if we did it.

Before,
Jenny Jones was baking muffins.

Now she was trying
to imitate us,

and then we got
the blame for it.

We never brought somebody on
and surprised them.

We didn't.

We said,
"This is going to happen

or this is going to happen,
and you got to be okay with it."

And if they even for a moment
had to think about it,

I wouldn't put them on.

We're not going to allow that
to happen.

‐Blaming Springer
for the Jenny Jones murder

does little
to change their content.

[ Gunfire ]

But when two teenagers shoot up
their high school in Colorado,

people question
whether they might have learned

such violence.

The answer that many come up
with is daytime talk.

And it's raining king,
Jerry Springer.

‐There was a point
where "The Jerry Springer Show"

became the villain.

‐It's double action.
It's still loaded.

‐By the late '90s,
mass shootings

involving teenagers
are on the rise.

[ Gunshot ]

‐Got some beef with me?

[ Gunshots ]

‐Between 1996 and 1999,
eight separate middle school

shootings rocked the nation,

culminating in the mass murder
at Columbine.

‐Shot being fired. There's
police officers

standing at the door,
and it looks like...

‐Rather than
blaming lack of gun control,

both media pundits
and religious officials

turned their attention
towards Jerry Springer.

‐Things started to turn more
dark in the United States

when mass shootings
in schools, Columbine,

I think we all had to reassess
where America was headed

and whether any of these
programs, including Jerry's,

had anything to do with it.

‐You had this horrible Columbine
massacre at a school

with these two cuckoos

who walked in
with guns and raincoats.

And the next day, they're saying
we were responsible.

‐There were forces in Chicago.

A Catholic priest named
Michael Pfleger led a protest

and actually brought picketers
and petitions

and marches to NBC Tower
to protest Jerry Springer

and to try to get him
off the air.

‐Very righteous man.

He got a group of people to
picket and they're making noise

and people were screaming
outside of the building

and walking around
with picket signs

that says "Springer Show
is Satan". We're not Satan.

‐I think it would be
too difficult

to draw a straight line
from what was going on

to what occurred
in terms of the actual violence

being played out,

but I do believe that shows
like "Springer" dramatized

a coarseness
that was pervading society.

‐"The Springer Show" is well
used to receiving criticism,

especially from
religious voices.

It's long been par
for the course,

but then Oprah jumps
into the fray.

‐I don't think that
it was a calculated effort

to target Springer,

but Richard Dominick still took
her negative comments

as a challenge.

‐There came a point in the show
where "The Springer Show"

was number two
in the ratings of daytime.

There was only "Oprah"
ahead of us,

but she started making me angry

because she's sitting on
top of the heap,

and every time I turn around, I
hear, "Oprah said this.

Oprah said that."

She says it in the press.

And the only thing
I ever said was,

"If you want to save the whales,
call Oprah.

If you're sleeping with a whale,

called
'The Jerry Springer Show'."

That's the only thing
I ever said publicly,

but to the staff, I said,

"You know what?
I want to beat her."

‐Give me another shot, Jerry.
‐Oh, yeah.

‐By 1998, Jerry Springer
was number one.

He was still front page
news in Chicago

for everything that was going on
with the show.

And there were still people
who were complaining

about the fights
and the violence.

That was when it was
at its peak.

Into that comes
the Chicago City Council.

‐If it's a crime
to slap your wife

at Sox Park or Soldier Field,

then it's a crime
to slap your wife on the stage

at "The Springer Show".

‐An alderman named Ed Burke

decided to go after Springer

on the basis of the fights that
were being shown on the program.

Basically, his case was there's
only two possibilities ‐‐

if those fights are real,
then that is assault

and the Chicago police ought to
be arresting those people.

If those fights are not real,
then it's fraud

and it shouldn't be allowed
to be shown on television.

‐If I was to suddenly grab
this book

and walk up to you
and smack you with it...

‐Yeah?

‐...would you think that
I was committing a violation?

‐You want him to do it?
[ Chuckles ]

‐Jerry, much to his credit,

showed up and testified
without being subpoenaed

and made a mockery
of the whole thing.

I mean, basically,
he treated it all as a joke

because the fact
is it really was a joke.

‐Let me ask the question.
Would you like me to

have a reporter read
the question back to you?

It calls for a yes or no answer.
‐Yes. Would you please do it?

Because at least she won't be
yelling. Go ahead.

[ Laughter ]

‐It was purely for headlines.

It was pure grandstanding
in the classic political sense.

And Jerry Springer,

who was a politician before
he ever got into television,

knew that better than anyone.

‐They asked him if he wanted
to make a statement,

and he said,
"I am not now,

nor have I ever been a member
of the Communist Party."

And we just laughed at them.

‐It was a wonderful performance.

He was not concerned at all that
this was going to amount

to anything of
any substance at all.

‐[ Crowd chanting "Jerry!" ]

‐The negative media attention
bolsters Springer's ratings

even more,

but his particular strain
of trash esthetics

will give birth
to a new kind of entertainment,

one that will change
the country.

‐Pay attention. Please.

‐During the '90s, Jerry Springer
endures criticism

from almost every angle,
but through it all, he survives.

In fact, he thrives.

To his fan base,
he can do no wrong.

‐It's hard to describe today
just how big he was

for the few years
that he was on top.

He wrote a best‐selling book,
he recorded a song.

Even the outtakes of the show
sold millions of copies.

He became such a huge cultural
and social phenomenon

that it far exceeded the show.

‐But as the decade
comes to an end,

talk shows like Springer's start
to see their ratings decline.

‐I think it just had its heyday.

I mean, you can't sustain
for more than a decade

that kind of programing
unless you have more innovation.

‐How many times can you watch
somebody rip off a wig

and hit the gal?

You can only be shocking
for so long.

And then, you know,
you need to be beheading,

and you're not going
to get that.

‐Instead of public executions,

a new type of entertainment
hits our screens,

one that's been spliced from
the exact same DNA as trash TV.

‐I was arrested!
‐Prostitution whore!

You were [bleep] engaged
19 times?!

You [bleep] bitch!

[Bleep]

[ Dishes crash ]

‐Springer opened the can
of craziness and wild things.

‐Reality shows are the bird
that evolved

from the dinosaur of '90s
talk shows.

A lot of the tactics
are the same.

Particularly shows like
"The Real Housewives"

[laughs]

is definitely an outgrowth
of Jerry Springer

because people want
to see people fight

on those shows, too.

‐No ifs, ands, or buts.
Daytime TV was the beginning

and laid the groundwork
for what we call reality TV.

It gives people the same
vicarious, salacious thrill

that they were getting
and looking at someone else.

‐Part of reality TV's
mass appeal

is that it blurs the line

between truth and fiction,

making it so powerful a medium

that it ends up transforming
American politics.

‐There's a lot of things
that go into

the mix of a cultural system

that would end up
electing a reality star

as a president, who behaved,
in my view,

worse than
any "Jerry Springer" guest.

Everything is sort of
confrontational,

loud, in your face, brash,
conflictual.

Reality television
might have given him

a platform for that.

‐If you took what we did
in the 1990s

and showed it today
in its entirety,

the cancel culture ‐‐
people's heads would explode.

It's not going to work because
Jerry was in the '90s

and that's when
it shocked everybody.

‐[ Audience chanting "Jerry!" ]

‐We have to say this about
Jerry.

For all his faults,

he was the first to admit that
he was doing a stupid talk show

and that there was no more
significance to it than that.

‐Somebody said,
"Were you ever offended

by any of the guests on the
show, by something they did?"

And the answer was no.

When the man said
"I married a horse,"

I said, "I'd love to see
a picture of the bride."