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Hilary Barry: It's been a
harrowing week in the news,
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so now it's something much
lighter and more fun.
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It's time for New Zealand's
favorite pop culture reporter,
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David Farrier.
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David: What do you make
of New Zealanders so far?
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Me? Uh, I think that they're...
They've been nice.
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Everyone has been cool so far.
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David: What's the main thing
you're trying to achieve here?
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Because obviously
you've created a bit of a...
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Survival.
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He's dead.
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- Now we're gonna spin around.
- Yeah.
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Whoa! Holy!
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It's so tiring. Whoa!
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David: And what's your nickname
that you've got now?
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The donkey lady.
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Lady: Look out!
Oh, look, we're going
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to have a reporter kicked.
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It's quite a kick.
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David: I can't say I've everinterviewed anyone
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that looks
exactly like you before.
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Really?
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David: I've made a career out of
looking at the weird
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and bizarre side of life.
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So when I discovered a strange
video online,
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I knew I'd found
my next story.
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Man:
It's good. It's good.
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David: An American company
called Jane O’Brien media
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was running a monthly event.
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Young athletes from anywhere
on the planet could apply.
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If selected they got
free flights to la,
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four nights in a really
nice hotel and $1500 cash.
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It was called competitive
endurance tickling.
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Man: You're with the cet,
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a competitive endurance tickling
group we got here.
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And, uh, first of all I'd like
to give a shout to you,
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Jane O’Brien media,
for making this happen.
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- Thanks, Jane.
- We all appreciate it.
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Fuck off!
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Guys! Oh, my god!
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David: Their Facebook page
was popular,
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with thousands of likes.
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And with everyone in
Adidas gear,
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it seemed to be some
kind of tickling league.
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David: It was one of
the strangest sports I'd seen.
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Man: No!
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David: So, of course,
I told Jane O’Brien media
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I'd like to do an interview.
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Instead of getting a
yes or no, I got this.
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Woman: "To be brutally frank,"
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association with a
homosexual journalist
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is not something
we will embrace.
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We desperately do not want
a homosexual participant base
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applying for this project.
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My concern is that your
journalistic style, fan base,
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and reputation
in your own country.
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"Regards, Debbie Kuhn,
Jane O’Brien media."
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David:
It was a strange response,
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especially considering the
sport did seem slightly...
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Gay.
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And over the coming weeks,
Debbie and Jane kept e-mailing.
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Woman: "The competitive
reality tickling
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is a passionately
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and exclusively heterosexual
athletic endurance activity.
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We have recently read a googled
article about the knowledge
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of your living with a
homosexual partner
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"becoming quite a stir
in New Zealand."
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"The remainder of the globe
does not in all corners
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share some of the more liberal
acceptance of your lifestyle."
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"To me anything concerning
homosexuality
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is at best
an objective disorder."
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"Shame on you!"
"Little gay kiwis." "Faggot."
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David: It was hard to take
the insults seriously,
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given what Jane was producing.
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If anything, it made me
more curious than ever.
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Woman: Your call
has been forwarded
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to the voicemail for
Jane O’Brien media.
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David: With no one picking up
the phone,
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I got my geeky friend Dylan
to do some digging
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into this mysterious company
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and this overly
aggressive woman.
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Dylan: So, I'm going to just
scroll up. So here we go.
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So, it's janeobrienmedia.com.
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It's registered to Nederdietsen.
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David: He discovered that while
Jane O’Brien media
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seemed to be
operated out of America,
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it was owned by a company in
Germany called Nederdietsen,
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which owned nearly 300 domain
names all related to tickling.
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This tickling wormhole was
getting deeper,
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so Dylan and I
blogged about what we'd found.
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Man: So, the pay's good.
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Man: What? Okay, hold on.
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David: Our story
got a lot of attention,
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being picked up
on websites like reddit
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and an American podcast.
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- Man 1: Back up. Back up.
- Man 2: When I say
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competitive tickling, what do
you think I'm talking about?
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Man 1: I mean, I think you're
talking about, uh,
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some sort of organized sport...
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- man 2: Yeah.- ...Of tickling.
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Man 2: Basically what happened
was this kind of blew up
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on the Internet this week,
because a dude in New Zealand,
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a reporter, like, happened
across this Facebook page.
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Man 1: But is it just for fun?
They just...
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I mean,
obviously it's just for fun?
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Man 2: Is it just for fun?
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It's tickling.
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Man 1: Sorry, I don't think that
question's ever been asked
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about tickling before.
It's like a martian question
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- about tickling.
- "Is it for fun?"
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David: People were so interested
by what we discovered,
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Dylan and I decided to make
a documentary
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about this
utterly bizarre subject.
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Two weeks later,
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we heard from Jane O'brien's
New York attorney,
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Romeo Salta.
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He'd recently made
headlines in a case
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involving a gay porn star
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who chopped a man up
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and mailed his body parts
to some politicians.
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Things certainly weren't
getting any less weird.
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His letter told us to stop
what we were doing, or else.
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Soon we were receiving e-mails
from Salta telling us
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that legal action
had been filed in the us.
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I had no money to hire a
New Zealand lawyer,
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let alone face
the American justice system.
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Then, to top it all off,
Jane O’Brien media told us
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they were flying three people
across the world from New York
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to New Zealand to see us.
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They're clearly serious about
stopping this documentary.
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Jane wouldn't tell us what
flight they were arriving on,
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but she did tell us the day.
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So from 05:00 am,
I waited at arrivals.
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Not sure what to expect,
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I figured I'd disarm
the situation
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with a rainbow-colored sign.
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David: How's it going?
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I thought I'd make up
a good welcoming sign.
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Good. How are you, sir?
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That's all right. I thought
I'd arrive. How was the flight?
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Oh, good.
Air New Zealand?
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Oh, good. Hey, guys.
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Kevin, nice to meet you, sir.
David. Nice to meet you.
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You can. I gift this to you.
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As a sign, I thought
it was pretty good.
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Well, look, let's line up
a time to meet this week.
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Marko:
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David: Tomorrow?
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- Adam:
- Marko:
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David:
Okay, tomorrow works well.
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- Kevin:
- Marko:
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David: Oh, that's okay. It's the
New Zealand hospitality.
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- David: You can get me there.
- Kevin:
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David: Yeah, we're just rolling
from the beginning. Yeah, yeah.
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Okay. We've got a thing
in New Zealand,
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we're okay to film
in public spaces.
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So I'm just following
the journey.
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Okay, all right. Well, we're...
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Adam:
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It's not...
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David: Okay. Well, I mean,
we're shooting a documentary,
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so we'll keep... it's a...
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David: Mm.
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David: Okay.
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00:10:05,464 --> 00:10:08,661
Okay. We're okay to film in
public spaces in New Zealand,
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so we're doing that here.
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David:
All right, we'll see you soon.
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- Marko:
- David: Okay, sounds good.
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All right, see you soon.
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David:
No worries. We'll talk soon.
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Marko:
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David: Hey, Marko.
It's Dave Farrier. How are you?
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Yeah, good. How are you
settling into Auckland?
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Okay. No, that sounds
good to me, I think.
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Just, Dylan and I both talked,
and we just weren't confident,
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or didn't think it was
a good idea
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just to go straight to a room.
Maybe it's a cultural thing.
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But a conference room
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- um, of your choosing,- Marko: Okay.
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Whether it's at the Hilton or
elsewhere, is absolutely fine.
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Marko:
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Marko: And, um...
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David:
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Marko:
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Dylan:
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Marko:
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00:12:24,099 --> 00:12:25,409
Dylan:
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Kevin:
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Dylan:
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Kevin:
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Dylan:
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Kevin:
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00:12:39,997 --> 00:12:40,826
David: Sure.
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Dylan:
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00:12:43,771 --> 00:12:47,993
David:
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Kevin:
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00:13:23,510 --> 00:13:25,300
David: Kevin didn't take
to Dylan very well
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and wants to meet me alone.
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00:13:28,533 --> 00:13:31,186
I quickly make this
covert piece of technology.
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00:13:31,603 --> 00:13:33,745
A camera in a coffee cup.
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00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:39,632
Kevin: What's the end game here?
What do you get at the end
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00:13:39,729 --> 00:13:41,071
or even if you get everything
you want?
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00:13:41,169 --> 00:13:44,175
- David: Mm. Mm.
- And what are we risking here?
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00:13:45,072 --> 00:13:48,813
You know, do we really want
someone coming after you
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00:13:48,911 --> 00:13:50,349
with all that money?
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00:13:50,926 --> 00:13:52,364
I've known a lot of
rich people in my life.
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00:13:52,462 --> 00:13:53,483
I've worked for a lot of them.
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00:13:53,581 --> 00:13:55,851
They don't work by the
same set of rules.
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00:13:55,949 --> 00:13:57,930
They don't dangle them out
of buildings any more,
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00:13:58,028 --> 00:13:59,786
but they don't have to.
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00:13:59,884 --> 00:14:02,569
And that's the thing.
They start suing,
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00:14:02,954 --> 00:14:05,768
and you're done halfway through
or a quarter of the way through
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00:14:05,898 --> 00:14:08,039
because it costs so much
to defend yourself.
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00:14:08,105 --> 00:14:09,767
David: So unless...
Essentially, I mean,
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00:14:09,896 --> 00:14:12,614
unless we stop the doco,
we're gonna be fucked.
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00:14:12,871 --> 00:14:14,278
Really. It seems that's
what it comes down to.
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00:14:14,407 --> 00:14:16,453
Kevin: I'm not gonna use those
words directly,
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00:14:16,551 --> 00:14:18,757
because that wouldn't
be prudent.
219
00:14:18,854 --> 00:14:21,732
But... let me rephrase.
Unless you stopped...
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00:14:21,830 --> 00:14:24,452
Unless we can figure out a way
to ameliorate that situation,
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00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:26,308
we all are.
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00:14:32,325 --> 00:14:35,427
David: Facing lawsuits and
a company with deep pockets,
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00:14:35,524 --> 00:14:37,858
I wondered if we should
just walk away.
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00:14:40,963 --> 00:14:42,657
But Dylan was part of this now
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00:14:42,755 --> 00:14:45,536
and didn't want to give in to
a bunch of bullies.
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00:14:46,594 --> 00:14:48,895
Kevin: Dylan wants to
pursue this on his own?
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00:14:49,281 --> 00:14:52,543
David: Uh, I gather from
what he's saying, yeah.
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00:14:52,832 --> 00:14:55,486
Kevin: Okay.
Um, if Dylan wants to do that,
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00:14:55,584 --> 00:14:57,821
Dylan does...
Dylan will do that.
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00:14:57,919 --> 00:15:01,212
If you don't want to do that,
then just walk away from it.
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00:15:01,790 --> 00:15:03,131
David: Yeah.
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00:15:03,421 --> 00:15:06,617
Kevin: And I will... Dylan
will be dealt with accordingly.
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00:15:07,259 --> 00:15:09,465
How was school?
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00:15:09,563 --> 00:15:12,523
Marko: The main thing, David, you know,
that I wanted to tell you is that
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00:15:12,634 --> 00:15:13,975
I think that you're brilliant.
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00:15:14,073 --> 00:15:15,894
And that you have
a great career.
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00:15:15,992 --> 00:15:18,325
So I was really,
really happy to find out
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that you wanted just to
distance yourself from it.
239
00:15:21,495 --> 00:15:25,973
And I don't understand why
Dylan would not want to.
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00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:29,076
What I'm worried about too,
I know Kevin says,
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00:15:29,174 --> 00:15:30,775
"well, if he wants to
go ahead with it,
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00:15:31,957 --> 00:15:32,659
let him go ahead with it."
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00:15:32,660 --> 00:15:33,362
But he'll become a real target,
and believe me,
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it will be really ugly for him.
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00:15:35,061 --> 00:15:36,563
And I would...
I would hate to see that too,
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because I know he has a family
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and, you know, he's probably,
uh, a good bloke down deep.
248
00:15:52,977 --> 00:15:55,310
David: I've never heard threats
like this in my life,
249
00:15:55,631 --> 00:15:58,029
and all of this
over some tickling!
250
00:15:58,894 --> 00:16:01,643
Kevin and Marko fly
back to America.
251
00:16:02,508 --> 00:16:05,610
And a few days later,
Dylan and I follow.
252
00:16:06,604 --> 00:16:09,065
Something about bullies
with way too much money
253
00:16:09,163 --> 00:16:11,049
has convinced me
I shouldn't drop it.
254
00:16:11,562 --> 00:16:15,143
Plus, we think there's a competitive
tickling shoot happening this week.
255
00:16:17,384 --> 00:16:20,325
We've reached out to nearly
a hundred boys in the videos,
256
00:16:20,582 --> 00:16:22,820
but they all seem too
nervous to talk.
257
00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:30,881
Finally TJ agrees to meet us.
258
00:16:34,339 --> 00:16:37,120
We met Kevin Clarke
downtown la somewhere.
259
00:16:37,218 --> 00:16:40,159
I can't remember exactly where
it was at, but it was a studio.
260
00:16:41,761 --> 00:16:43,359
He seemed pretty
normal at the time.
261
00:16:44,608 --> 00:16:46,809
My first impression of him,
you know, he was just, like,
262
00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:48,957
kind of...
Kind of a little weird.
263
00:16:51,294 --> 00:16:52,540
You know,
I was young at the time,
264
00:16:52,637 --> 00:16:53,691
didn't think nothing of it,
265
00:16:53,693 --> 00:16:55,739
and I was like, "cool."
You know, $2000 or whatever,
266
00:16:55,837 --> 00:16:57,114
"yeah. It's gonna be cool."
267
00:17:01,307 --> 00:17:02,776
It was actually a hard
time for my family.
268
00:17:02,778 --> 00:17:06,552
A family member of mine was going through
cancer, and money was tight at the household.
269
00:17:06,650 --> 00:17:09,931
So I was a little bit desperate at the time
as well for money, working on the side,
270
00:17:10,009 --> 00:17:11,831
and doing what I can. So when
I heard this dollar sign,
271
00:17:11,929 --> 00:17:14,129
I was like, "yeah," you know,
"I'll definitely do that."
272
00:17:15,768 --> 00:17:17,269
And then I went inside
273
00:17:17,367 --> 00:17:19,573
and noticed that it was
all guys in there.
274
00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:24,020
And that's when I was like,
"oh, dang!" Like...
275
00:17:27,125 --> 00:17:29,011
And I didn't know I was
gonna get tied down.
276
00:17:29,588 --> 00:17:31,826
I had no idea what it'd be for.
277
00:17:31,924 --> 00:17:33,842
Honestly, I was like,
"okay, what?"
278
00:17:35,379 --> 00:17:38,160
At that point I was like, "all right,
you know what? It's already going down."
279
00:17:38,258 --> 00:17:39,578
I don't really know
what it's for,
280
00:17:39,666 --> 00:17:40,986
"but hopefully
it never gets out."
281
00:18:00,781 --> 00:18:02,250
No, no, no. Not any fuckin'...
282
00:18:02,348 --> 00:18:05,929
Ah! Fuck! That actually
tickles, dude.
283
00:18:08,778 --> 00:18:12,488
Ah! Fuck!
284
00:18:12,586 --> 00:18:15,527
Being violated on so many
different levels right now.
285
00:18:15,625 --> 00:18:18,470
There was other athletes.
There was MMA guys.
286
00:18:18,568 --> 00:18:19,846
There was a bodybuilder,
287
00:18:19,975 --> 00:18:22,885
and then there was a couple
of actors, normal actors.
288
00:18:22,983 --> 00:18:24,389
I've seen some of them on
commercials,
289
00:18:24,487 --> 00:18:26,564
TV commercials. Normal guys.
290
00:18:26,662 --> 00:18:28,994
Like, completely normal people.
291
00:18:30,819 --> 00:18:33,089
Get the fuck off my feet!
292
00:18:33,187 --> 00:18:34,593
It was a torture project.
293
00:18:34,691 --> 00:18:36,992
That's what I believe
Kevin Clarke told me.
294
00:18:37,090 --> 00:18:40,927
There was something to do with even a
military tactic, or something like that.
295
00:18:41,025 --> 00:18:42,623
He was gonna do...
296
00:18:42,817 --> 00:18:45,087
I think he said
Jane was doing a project
297
00:18:45,185 --> 00:18:47,998
on using tickling
as a military tactic.
298
00:18:48,096 --> 00:18:49,150
And at that point, I...
299
00:18:49,248 --> 00:18:51,069
I knew it was complete bullshit,
you know?
300
00:18:51,167 --> 00:18:53,085
I was like, "okay, the military
is gonna use tickling"
301
00:18:53,183 --> 00:18:55,229
as a torture tactic?"
302
00:18:55,326 --> 00:18:57,500
Fuck!
303
00:19:00,029 --> 00:19:03,514
David: When did the video
come back to get you?
304
00:19:04,763 --> 00:19:07,577
About a year, maybe
a little more, ago.
305
00:19:16,538 --> 00:19:18,098
I would Google myself
once in a while,
306
00:19:18,137 --> 00:19:19,191
to read old articles
307
00:19:19,193 --> 00:19:21,313
or see what teams might have
listed me in an article
308
00:19:21,368 --> 00:19:22,390
or try-outs.
309
00:19:27,030 --> 00:19:30,356
And to my surprise,
a video was on YouTube.
310
00:19:30,454 --> 00:19:34,356
Hello. I'm TJ, and I'm here
on a tickling competition.
311
00:19:34,453 --> 00:19:36,819
And, uh, first question is:
"Are you ticklish?"
312
00:19:36,917 --> 00:19:38,931
Well, obviously I'm ticklish if
I'm here, so,
313
00:19:39,029 --> 00:19:40,371
that's kind of
a silly question. But, uh...
314
00:19:40,468 --> 00:19:42,770
It was just me
sitting in front of the camera
315
00:19:42,868 --> 00:19:45,457
talking about the,
uh, tickling process.
316
00:19:45,555 --> 00:19:48,075
Just weird things. And so I was
like, "okay, it's not that bad."
317
00:19:48,850 --> 00:19:50,704
"When you are asked,
'are you ticklish?'
318
00:19:50,802 --> 00:19:53,008
how do you normally
respond and why?"
319
00:19:53,362 --> 00:19:56,784
Normally, I say,
"no, I'm not ticklish."
320
00:19:58,673 --> 00:20:01,870
So I emailed Jane and asked
her to take the video down.
321
00:20:05,552 --> 00:20:07,790
She didn't ever reply.
322
00:20:07,887 --> 00:20:10,125
So I took the matters
into my own hands,
323
00:20:10,286 --> 00:20:12,107
and I, uh, told YouTube that
324
00:20:12,205 --> 00:20:14,219
uh, they're illegally
using my name.
325
00:20:17,549 --> 00:20:21,162
So YouTube took the video down.
That's when it all started.
326
00:20:25,323 --> 00:20:26,921
Woman: "Now, I am laughing."
327
00:20:28,106 --> 00:20:30,376
"I don't think you've grasped
the magnitude
328
00:20:30,474 --> 00:20:31,976
of what you have provoked."
329
00:20:32,457 --> 00:20:34,919
"I'm interested to see how you
handle the fallout.
330
00:20:35,017 --> 00:20:39,398
So far, badly."
"Regards, Debbie J. Kuhn."
331
00:20:39,495 --> 00:20:42,245
That's when this Deborah
person popped into my life.
332
00:20:42,343 --> 00:20:45,349
I mean,
just all hell broke loose.
333
00:20:48,327 --> 00:20:52,389
Every kind of video search you
can find, it was up there.
334
00:20:54,118 --> 00:20:55,876
And then it
pops up in my emails,
335
00:20:55,974 --> 00:20:57,828
and then it pops up
more on YouTube,
336
00:20:58,309 --> 00:20:59,715
and it just starts
appearing everywhere.
337
00:20:59,813 --> 00:21:01,133
This video...
Just, all of them.
338
00:21:01,188 --> 00:21:02,530
All of them start blowing up.
339
00:21:11,713 --> 00:21:13,024
And there was threats.
It said, "watch out!"
340
00:21:13,121 --> 00:21:14,242
Your family better watch out
341
00:21:14,401 --> 00:21:16,190
because we're gonna put your
last name to shame.
342
00:21:16,288 --> 00:21:18,654
"Any time you search your last
name, it's gonna pop up."
343
00:21:18,752 --> 00:21:20,414
Like, direct threats.
344
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:24,605
They ended up making a website,
345
00:21:24,670 --> 00:21:26,043
putting my
personal information:
346
00:21:26,141 --> 00:21:27,867
My name, my address,
347
00:21:27,996 --> 00:21:30,617
my personal phone number,
my email address,
348
00:21:31,579 --> 00:21:33,464
all with just dumb lies.
349
00:21:36,378 --> 00:21:39,288
Then Debbie Kuhn starts going
off on me left and right,
350
00:21:39,386 --> 00:21:41,687
sending emails to the
high school that I coach at.
351
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,078
Woman: "I have additional
information as a past employer.
352
00:21:45,176 --> 00:21:46,934
You don't want this
guy in your league.
353
00:21:47,032 --> 00:21:49,654
Can you afford the distraction,
the press,
354
00:21:49,752 --> 00:21:52,982
with an outed gay guy
having a male tickling fetish,
355
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:54,998
in which he likes to tickle
and be tickled
356
00:21:55,096 --> 00:21:58,037
"by tied-up other gay
athletes and bodybuilders?"
357
00:21:58,135 --> 00:21:59,895
False accusations,
saying I'm a drug addict
358
00:21:59,958 --> 00:22:02,420
and I was a child molester
and I'm gay, and this and that,
359
00:22:02,518 --> 00:22:04,532
which none of those things
have ever been true.
360
00:22:20,276 --> 00:22:21,970
I've always been very proud.
361
00:22:22,068 --> 00:22:23,730
The way I walk around,
I'm proud of who I am.
362
00:22:23,828 --> 00:22:25,073
You know what I mean?
So to speak.
363
00:22:25,171 --> 00:22:26,513
I'm confident in myself
as an athlete,
364
00:22:26,611 --> 00:22:27,921
as a person, as a player.
365
00:22:29,170 --> 00:22:30,416
But when I'd go to try-outs,
366
00:22:30,514 --> 00:22:32,368
the first thing
I would think about is,
367
00:22:32,466 --> 00:22:34,906
"well, I wonder if these coaches
have looked up that video?"
368
00:22:36,689 --> 00:22:38,130
And it's happened.
It has happened.
369
00:22:38,225 --> 00:22:39,854
I've been released
from football teams.
370
00:22:39,952 --> 00:22:41,229
They've told me, uh,
371
00:22:41,327 --> 00:22:43,917
that I'm the best player
on that team at that position,
372
00:22:44,046 --> 00:22:46,731
but because it is
a distraction for the media,
373
00:22:46,829 --> 00:22:47,787
they don't need that attention
374
00:22:47,789 --> 00:22:50,347
and they'll go with somebody else 'cause
they don't feel like explaining it.
375
00:22:50,349 --> 00:22:54,602
You know, and I've actually dealt
with a lot of things because of it.
376
00:22:56,044 --> 00:22:58,922
It's cost me money, it's cost me
jobs, it's caused me harassment,
377
00:22:59,019 --> 00:23:02,025
which is exactly what Debbie
Kuhn and Jane O’Brien wanted.
378
00:23:02,123 --> 00:23:04,808
So, I mean, more or less in
that aspect, they've won.
379
00:23:14,376 --> 00:23:16,998
David: It's obvious we're not
the only ones being harassed
380
00:23:17,095 --> 00:23:18,725
by Jane O’Brien media.
381
00:23:18,823 --> 00:23:22,181
And there are so many websites
made up like tj's
382
00:23:22,278 --> 00:23:23,908
which seem to exist purely
383
00:23:24,005 --> 00:23:25,955
to shame the guys
who've been tickled.
384
00:23:29,060 --> 00:23:32,353
What goes on at these shoots,
and why is she so aggressive?
385
00:23:34,498 --> 00:23:36,000
Dylan's been doing
some research,
386
00:23:36,098 --> 00:23:38,752
and he thinks he knows where
the next shoot is happening.
387
00:23:40,801 --> 00:23:43,071
We stake out the studio,
hoping to find out
388
00:23:43,169 --> 00:23:46,110
how a competitive
tickling shoot goes down.
389
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:48,221
Dominic: Okay, car.
390
00:23:54,749 --> 00:23:56,507
And another car. Two cars.
391
00:23:56,828 --> 00:23:58,234
David: Two cars.
392
00:24:03,868 --> 00:24:05,178
Dominic: Can you see
what the car's doing?
393
00:24:05,276 --> 00:24:06,426
I've lost him.
394
00:24:10,843 --> 00:24:12,924
- Dominic: Who's that guy?
- David: Oh, that's Marko.
395
00:24:15,483 --> 00:24:18,649
Dylan: Oh, yeah. And we've got
four guys going in so far.
396
00:24:18,746 --> 00:24:20,056
Dominic: Four guys.
397
00:24:24,474 --> 00:24:25,994
Dylan: That's the guy
from New Zealand.
398
00:24:26,041 --> 00:24:27,574
David: Yep, there's Kevin.
399
00:24:48,598 --> 00:24:51,188
David: We could hear laughter
coming out of the vents.
400
00:24:55,124 --> 00:24:57,201
It went on for hours,
401
00:24:58,867 --> 00:25:01,329
the boys occasionally
taking breaks.
402
00:25:13,202 --> 00:25:15,162
You know, this is actually
fucking creepy as fuck.
403
00:25:15,218 --> 00:25:17,103
Dylan: Like, this feels
to me like a pep talk.
404
00:25:17,232 --> 00:25:18,254
Dominic: Yeah.
405
00:25:19,951 --> 00:25:21,197
David: As the day wraps up,
406
00:25:21,295 --> 00:25:23,437
I want to give Kevin
one last chance
407
00:25:23,534 --> 00:25:25,420
to talk about what's going on.
408
00:25:26,957 --> 00:25:28,235
With pending lawsuits,
409
00:25:28,332 --> 00:25:31,594
I'm cautious and don't want to
storm into the studio.
410
00:25:33,708 --> 00:25:34,793
David:
They haven't locked the door.
411
00:25:34,891 --> 00:25:36,392
Dylan: I think we go.
412
00:25:39,050 --> 00:25:40,519
All right. Okay, let's go.
413
00:25:41,225 --> 00:25:43,206
- David: We're good?
- Dominic: Yep, we're good.
414
00:25:53,256 --> 00:25:54,373
Dominic: Come this way.
415
00:25:55,815 --> 00:25:58,404
David: Here we go.
We've been spotted.
416
00:26:07,813 --> 00:26:11,395
Hello, Marko. Hey, guys.
417
00:26:20,069 --> 00:26:21,282
Adam, how's it going?
418
00:26:21,380 --> 00:26:22,945
Adam:
419
00:26:24,803 --> 00:26:26,113
Hello, sir.
420
00:26:26,306 --> 00:26:27,808
Kevin:
421
00:26:28,290 --> 00:26:29,471
We're not welcome here?
422
00:26:32,864 --> 00:26:34,462
All right.
Well, we'll head off.
423
00:26:35,424 --> 00:26:36,862
You don't want to do
any final chats or anything?
424
00:26:36,959 --> 00:26:38,109
Last opportunity.
425
00:26:43,039 --> 00:26:44,316
That's all we can do.
426
00:26:51,645 --> 00:26:53,595
Turn right
on Bellevue Avenue,
427
00:26:53,693 --> 00:26:55,386
then take the first right.
428
00:26:56,796 --> 00:27:00,506
I think... yeah, uh,
after New Zealand and that,
429
00:27:00,604 --> 00:27:03,641
I think it's
safe to say that we don't...
430
00:27:03,739 --> 00:27:06,072
We don't have an interview
with Kevin or Marko.
431
00:27:06,714 --> 00:27:07,959
And we certainly
weren't getting
432
00:27:08,057 --> 00:27:10,838
any more of the competitors
to talk on camera.
433
00:27:10,936 --> 00:27:12,694
They were all too terrified,
434
00:27:12,792 --> 00:27:16,533
hoping if they stayed quiet,
the harassment would go away.
435
00:27:18,710 --> 00:27:20,948
Dylan: I mean, are we making the
whole thing worse for everyone
436
00:27:21,046 --> 00:27:22,579
just by even being here?
437
00:27:22,677 --> 00:27:24,339
David: Yeah.
I think it's possible.
438
00:27:24,437 --> 00:27:27,378
I worry that we make it
worse for some people who...
439
00:27:27,668 --> 00:27:29,265
Who've gotten through the
worst of it, you know?
440
00:27:29,363 --> 00:27:30,385
Dylan: Mm.
441
00:27:46,705 --> 00:27:48,910
David: Jane O’Brien clearly
isn't being honest
442
00:27:49,008 --> 00:27:50,510
about what the videos are for.
443
00:27:50,864 --> 00:27:53,166
And I'm convinced that despite
the Adidas gear,
444
00:27:53,264 --> 00:27:55,629
it's not a real sport.
445
00:28:00,143 --> 00:28:01,868
I've tracked down
a man in Florida
446
00:28:01,966 --> 00:28:03,980
who also makes tickling videos,
447
00:28:04,078 --> 00:28:07,531
but, unlike Jane, is more
than happy to talk about it.
448
00:28:35,980 --> 00:28:38,985
Richard: People ask me about
what is the appeal of tickling?
449
00:28:40,395 --> 00:28:42,984
It's kind of like the whips
and chains, you know,
450
00:28:43,082 --> 00:28:45,575
bondage sort of thing, where
somebody's getting flogged.
451
00:28:45,673 --> 00:28:48,966
But it's just really brought
down a level, you know?
452
00:28:49,064 --> 00:28:50,694
It's like kind of a sadistic
453
00:28:50,792 --> 00:28:53,062
exerting your will
on someone else,
454
00:28:53,159 --> 00:28:55,173
and having them do something
out of their control
455
00:28:55,271 --> 00:28:57,796
like laughing without
being able to get away,
456
00:28:57,991 --> 00:29:00,996
as if it's, uh,
tickle torture to them.
457
00:29:02,310 --> 00:29:03,811
David: And a lot of people
don't seem to know
458
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:05,571
about the tickling fetish.
459
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:07,299
Do you think it's a little bit
more unknown?
460
00:29:07,396 --> 00:29:09,346
Oh, totally.
Yeah, completely.
461
00:29:09,444 --> 00:29:11,906
'Cause most people, you know,
know about a foot fetish,
462
00:29:12,707 --> 00:29:14,273
um, but tickling?
463
00:29:14,370 --> 00:29:16,544
Most people are like,
"oh, wow. Is that a thing?"
464
00:29:18,849 --> 00:29:24,414
It was in 1999. I had just
gotten out of grad school,
465
00:29:25,983 --> 00:29:27,741
you know, so I just got
a video camera,
466
00:29:27,839 --> 00:29:29,373
put together a little
business plan,
467
00:29:30,462 --> 00:29:31,484
talked to one of my friends
468
00:29:31,486 --> 00:29:33,531
and he financed me,
when I started the site,
469
00:29:33,629 --> 00:29:35,930
I think for $6000 or $7000.
470
00:29:37,627 --> 00:29:39,737
It got pretty much an
immediate response.
471
00:29:52,633 --> 00:29:53,783
I was making enough
after a year
472
00:29:53,881 --> 00:29:55,735
to quit my job
and do it full-time.
473
00:29:59,416 --> 00:30:00,501
David: So this is it?
474
00:30:00,791 --> 00:30:02,260
- This is it.
- This is the studio.
475
00:30:02,358 --> 00:30:04,243
- Mm-hm.
- The chair.
476
00:30:05,429 --> 00:30:08,114
And then the changing room,
bathroom.
477
00:30:08,308 --> 00:30:10,833
And so, this whole place
is purely for the tickling?
478
00:30:10,931 --> 00:30:12,048
Yes.
479
00:30:15,857 --> 00:30:17,775
David: Oh, so you've got a few
different spaces, right?
480
00:30:17,873 --> 00:30:18,927
Richard: Yeah, yeah.
481
00:30:19,025 --> 00:30:20,590
I used to do all this
out of my house.
482
00:30:20,751 --> 00:30:21,613
David: Yeah.
483
00:30:21,615 --> 00:30:24,076
And then it was, you know,
a parade of people coming in,
484
00:30:24,174 --> 00:30:26,828
do all this, have to clean up.
485
00:30:26,926 --> 00:30:29,675
You know, have to clean
it up before a shoot.
486
00:30:29,773 --> 00:30:32,235
And this way I can walk away.
487
00:30:32,333 --> 00:30:33,354
Yeah, this is great.
488
00:30:33,452 --> 00:30:34,473
Like, "I'm tired. Going home."
489
00:30:34,571 --> 00:30:35,593
David: You're done.
490
00:30:35,594 --> 00:30:37,475
Well, this is work, right?
It's like work, home.
491
00:30:37,546 --> 00:30:38,919
Richard: Mm-hm. Exactly.
492
00:30:39,465 --> 00:30:41,959
Have you done stuff like this
before for anyone else?
493
00:30:42,056 --> 00:30:43,686
Or this sort of a unique
thing for you?
494
00:30:43,784 --> 00:30:45,125
Uh, unique thing.
495
00:30:45,223 --> 00:30:47,589
I never worked for
a tickling site before.
496
00:30:47,687 --> 00:30:48,677
- Okay.
- Man: No.
497
00:30:48,679 --> 00:30:50,597
David: And what did you first
think when you got the pitch?
498
00:30:50,599 --> 00:30:52,420
Man: I mean, I laughed about it.
499
00:30:52,518 --> 00:30:54,243
I'm like,
this can't be really serious,
500
00:30:54,341 --> 00:30:55,906
like, people really can't...
501
00:30:56,004 --> 00:30:58,626
Enjoy watching this
or getting it done.
502
00:30:59,235 --> 00:31:00,352
But, um, I said, "why not?"
503
00:31:00,450 --> 00:31:01,856
You know, I'm more of like
the risk-taker.
504
00:31:01,954 --> 00:31:04,576
I'd rather say I did something
than didn't do something.
505
00:31:04,674 --> 00:31:05,695
So I came down,
506
00:31:07,776 --> 00:31:08,846
really was kind of nervous,
didn't know what to expect.
507
00:31:08,847 --> 00:31:09,918
And then...
But Richard put me at ease,
508
00:31:10,015 --> 00:31:11,869
and once you're trapped
in you're there.
509
00:31:11,967 --> 00:31:14,621
So, I mean, you might
as well enjoy it.
510
00:31:14,814 --> 00:31:15,996
All right.
511
00:31:18,077 --> 00:31:20,987
- Richard: Okay, ready?
- I think you're...
512
00:31:22,397 --> 00:31:23,418
Man:
Take it easy on me today.
513
00:31:23,547 --> 00:31:24,697
Richard: Yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
514
00:31:24,795 --> 00:31:25,816
Man: That's good.
515
00:31:30,841 --> 00:31:32,681
- Got to enjoy my freedom now.
- Richard: Yeah.
516
00:31:33,048 --> 00:31:35,029
- Because I cannot.
- Richard: Wave goodbye.
517
00:31:35,159 --> 00:31:36,692
I am not getting out.
518
00:31:37,846 --> 00:31:39,218
Oh, shit.
519
00:31:41,555 --> 00:31:44,369
The world of tickling.
520
00:31:49,041 --> 00:31:50,542
So, catch your breath.
521
00:31:52,784 --> 00:31:54,861
- Breath caught.
- Okay.
522
00:32:04,013 --> 00:32:06,059
All right.
523
00:32:06,157 --> 00:32:07,877
Now tell everybody
what a tough guy you are.
524
00:32:10,891 --> 00:32:16,329
Just go.
525
00:32:29,353 --> 00:32:30,759
Stop.
526
00:32:38,663 --> 00:32:40,165
Oh, my gosh.
527
00:32:40,774 --> 00:32:42,404
I hate this.
528
00:33:24,739 --> 00:33:26,273
David: So when did you realize
529
00:33:26,371 --> 00:33:31,232
that you found tickling
to be an erotic thing?
530
00:33:32,065 --> 00:33:33,471
Richard: I was very young,
531
00:33:33,601 --> 00:33:38,110
you know, probably five or six.
You know, very, very young.
532
00:33:42,399 --> 00:33:47,164
You see something in a cartoon
or a magazine that, you know,
533
00:33:47,261 --> 00:33:49,243
kind of interests
you as a little kid,
534
00:33:49,341 --> 00:33:51,034
and for me it would be,
you know, like,
535
00:33:51,132 --> 00:33:53,913
cartoon characters being
tickled or tied up or,
536
00:33:54,011 --> 00:33:55,257
you know, that sort of thing.
537
00:33:55,355 --> 00:33:57,913
And it would, you know,
fascinate me,
538
00:33:58,010 --> 00:34:00,216
but I had no idea why.
539
00:34:22,393 --> 00:34:24,951
Richard: How do you feel?
540
00:34:25,432 --> 00:34:26,901
I feel tired.
541
00:34:26,999 --> 00:34:29,172
- I feel sweaty.
- Can I get you some water?
542
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:34,259
Yeah, water would probably work.
543
00:34:35,445 --> 00:34:37,715
Richard: I started to becomecomfortable with this, uh,
544
00:34:37,844 --> 00:34:39,409
fetish and this part of myself,
545
00:34:39,731 --> 00:34:42,512
and started to really realize
that it was a part of myself,
546
00:34:42,610 --> 00:34:43,631
when I...
547
00:34:43,729 --> 00:34:45,935
When I got on AOL
548
00:34:46,448 --> 00:34:48,328
and then did a search
for what I was looking for
549
00:34:48,399 --> 00:34:49,399
and found that, "wow!"
550
00:34:50,958 --> 00:34:51,548
There's actually,
you know, quite a lot of
551
00:34:51,549 --> 00:34:52,870
"other people
that are into this."
552
00:34:59,308 --> 00:35:01,610
At the time,
the late '90s,
553
00:35:01,996 --> 00:35:05,161
was, um, somebody that posted
on the message boards a lot.
554
00:35:06,347 --> 00:35:09,896
And she said her name was
Terri, Terri tickle.
555
00:35:10,217 --> 00:35:14,982
And Terri Disisto, she put
in what her real name was.
556
00:35:16,615 --> 00:35:18,436
She always had a picture
of herself.
557
00:35:18,662 --> 00:35:21,829
You know, a blonde,
pretty, college-aged girl.
558
00:35:22,214 --> 00:35:25,859
And, she always posted
the same verbiage.
559
00:35:25,957 --> 00:35:27,459
Something like,
"this is not porn.
560
00:35:27,557 --> 00:35:29,315
My interest is in tickling."
561
00:35:30,277 --> 00:35:34,338
And she just said that she was
a tickling fanatic and...
562
00:35:34,884 --> 00:35:37,154
But, I mean, these posts
were everywhere.
563
00:35:40,131 --> 00:35:42,304
And then, um, some videos
started popping up,
564
00:35:42,402 --> 00:35:44,416
you know, very,
you know, innocent.
565
00:35:45,921 --> 00:35:48,222
And, those are probably
the first
566
00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:52,829
tickle videos that I
ever saw on the Internet.
567
00:35:56,957 --> 00:35:59,259
David: There are still traces of
Terri tickle online
568
00:36:00,636 --> 00:36:02,266
from the mid-'90s,
569
00:36:02,267 --> 00:36:03,898
and as Richard said,
she was tickle-obsessed.
570
00:36:03,996 --> 00:36:06,425
Like Jane,
she also hired other people
571
00:36:06,523 --> 00:36:08,216
to shoot the videos she wanted.
572
00:36:10,778 --> 00:36:16,023
Well, the, uh,
just strange, rich brat,
573
00:36:16,696 --> 00:36:18,134
I guess you could say.
574
00:36:18,936 --> 00:36:22,517
Someone who, uh,
got her rocks off by, uh,
575
00:36:22,614 --> 00:36:25,236
seeing guys, uh,
tied and tickled.
576
00:36:25,334 --> 00:36:28,019
Obviously an extreme dominatrix.
577
00:36:30,036 --> 00:36:31,282
David: For most of his life,
578
00:36:31,380 --> 00:36:33,170
Dave Starr has worked
on the edges
579
00:36:33,267 --> 00:36:35,121
of the entertainment industry,
580
00:36:35,411 --> 00:36:38,000
even acting in a
couple of pornos.
581
00:36:38,386 --> 00:36:39,599
During the mid-'90s,
582
00:36:39,824 --> 00:36:42,830
he noticed Terri's online posts
wanting tickling videos...
583
00:36:43,536 --> 00:36:44,749
Lots of them.
584
00:36:47,567 --> 00:36:52,235
Dave: Terri was, uh, out there
looking for guys, uh, 18 to 23.
585
00:36:53,229 --> 00:36:57,354
And I, uh, figured
that it would, um...
586
00:36:58,571 --> 00:37:00,744
Be something
right up my alley,
587
00:37:00,842 --> 00:37:02,322
based on my, uh,
working in casting.
588
00:37:06,024 --> 00:37:09,382
David: What sort of things was
she recruiting for specifically?
589
00:37:10,888 --> 00:37:14,469
Uh, tickle torture films.
Tickle torture videos.
590
00:37:15,302 --> 00:37:17,188
Can you turn that thing
around so I can see it?
591
00:37:17,542 --> 00:37:18,659
Man: All right.
592
00:37:20,933 --> 00:37:22,533
- Is that all right?
- Yeah, that's good.
593
00:37:25,859 --> 00:37:29,057
Dave: She claimed it was
for a private collection,
594
00:37:30,979 --> 00:37:33,632
so I was thinking,
"okay, amateur hour."
595
00:37:39,874 --> 00:37:44,895
But me, I rapidly took it
into a professional level.
596
00:37:45,633 --> 00:37:47,934
Man 1:
Okay, are you, uh, ticklish?
597
00:37:48,288 --> 00:37:49,534
Man 2: Uh, yes, I am.
598
00:37:49,888 --> 00:37:51,934
Man 1: Okay,
step forward about a foot.
599
00:37:52,255 --> 00:37:55,708
Okay. Place your hands behind
your head, inter-clasp them.
600
00:37:55,806 --> 00:37:57,660
Step back a little further,
though.
601
00:37:57,758 --> 00:37:59,035
Okay, right about there.
602
00:37:59,133 --> 00:38:00,346
Okay, inter-clasp them
603
00:38:00,444 --> 00:38:02,490
and do not release them
at any time
604
00:38:02,588 --> 00:38:03,929
during the entire tickle test.
605
00:38:04,027 --> 00:38:05,433
Do your worst on this one.
606
00:38:05,883 --> 00:38:07,096
Dave: We would put them
in through
607
00:38:07,194 --> 00:38:09,112
their stage one audition,
608
00:38:09,210 --> 00:38:12,535
which is the questions
and the test tickles.
609
00:38:13,528 --> 00:38:16,246
Man 1: Do not collapse.
Stay looking up at us.
610
00:38:21,846 --> 00:38:23,252
Stay facing us.
611
00:38:30,068 --> 00:38:36,689
Dave: Stage two is tying them to
the table, tickling them,
612
00:38:36,787 --> 00:38:38,705
flipping them over
every 15 minutes,
613
00:38:38,803 --> 00:38:42,065
kind of like a sausage or meat.
614
00:38:45,681 --> 00:38:47,087
Dave: And then after that, uh,
615
00:38:47,185 --> 00:38:50,766
we had the competitive tickling
at that point.
616
00:38:50,864 --> 00:38:53,901
Tickle wars and stuff like that.
617
00:38:53,999 --> 00:38:57,996
And that would involve
a massive production.
618
00:39:11,692 --> 00:39:13,130
Woman: Okay, don't laugh.
619
00:39:13,580 --> 00:39:15,561
You're giggling already,
aren't you?
620
00:39:17,386 --> 00:39:19,496
Well, you just might be
the type of person
621
00:39:19,594 --> 00:39:21,479
that David Starr
is looking for.
622
00:39:21,577 --> 00:39:22,790
He is a Hollywood producer
623
00:39:22,888 --> 00:39:25,286
working on a new
reality-based game show
624
00:39:25,383 --> 00:39:27,589
called tickle talk.
625
00:39:27,943 --> 00:39:31,973
Dave:
626
00:39:37,862 --> 00:39:39,011
Woman: It might be
preferable to
627
00:39:39,109 --> 00:39:41,155
eating rats or grubson survivor
628
00:39:41,253 --> 00:39:42,915
but just barely.
629
00:39:43,013 --> 00:39:46,146
I'm Anne James,
KSEN k96 news.
630
00:39:46,244 --> 00:39:48,993
David: Dave Starr had steady
work for five years,
631
00:39:49,091 --> 00:39:52,192
even when Terri was
hospitalized for six months.
632
00:39:52,769 --> 00:39:53,982
During that time,
633
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:55,645
she just wrote
letters specifying
634
00:39:55,743 --> 00:39:58,524
exactly what she wanted
in the tickling videos.
635
00:39:58,622 --> 00:40:00,699
Terri:
"David, merry Christmas!
636
00:40:00,797 --> 00:40:02,939
So sorry,
I'm in the hospital with mono."
637
00:40:03,036 --> 00:40:05,786
"David, just a few things
I need you to do..."
638
00:40:05,884 --> 00:40:08,346
"Tell them I will send the
computer as soon as I'm well."
639
00:40:08,443 --> 00:40:10,683
"His name is Josh." "I hope
to be online again in Feb."
640
00:40:10,714 --> 00:40:13,751
"I'm still sick in bed."
"That's all for now. Td."
641
00:40:16,953 --> 00:40:19,255
My most ticklish place is,
I guess...
642
00:40:20,217 --> 00:40:24,438
Definitely, like...
It'd have to be in my legs...
643
00:40:25,207 --> 00:40:28,373
More than, like, my armpits
or my feet, I think, but...
644
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:31,092
Dave: At that time
she wanted to put up
645
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:34,387
and did indeed put up
a website for a while, uh,
646
00:40:34,485 --> 00:40:38,098
unauthorized releasing
of the videos...
647
00:40:39,252 --> 00:40:41,105
Against the
agreement of the talent,
648
00:40:41,683 --> 00:40:43,024
and I flipped my lid.
649
00:40:43,442 --> 00:40:45,104
And, lo and behold,
650
00:40:45,202 --> 00:40:48,783
she goes and registers domains
in their names
651
00:40:49,392 --> 00:40:50,989
and then proceeds to...
652
00:40:51,758 --> 00:40:55,660
Release all their content on
to those particular websites.
653
00:41:02,860 --> 00:41:08,490
Alden: She was, like,
sending me emails about, um,
654
00:41:08,588 --> 00:41:09,828
"what do you think
your mother's
655
00:41:09,867 --> 00:41:11,496
gonna think about this?"
656
00:41:11,946 --> 00:41:15,656
And then, like, I'd be like,
you know, "fuck you, bitch."
657
00:41:15,754 --> 00:41:20,135
And she'd be, like...
Like, totally antagonizing.
658
00:41:20,232 --> 00:41:24,774
Like...
I mean, she was such a cunt.
659
00:41:29,255 --> 00:41:32,965
It was an assault not just on
me but on my family, you know?
660
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:36,643
I mean, I couldn't have a more
conservative family, you know?
661
00:41:36,838 --> 00:41:40,388
I'm, I'm in a family full of
republican, military people,
662
00:41:40,485 --> 00:41:43,779
and I'm a...
I was a professional banker.
663
00:41:43,877 --> 00:41:48,130
And here I am, like,
with basically a porn site,
664
00:41:48,228 --> 00:41:51,233
where I'm not naked, but,
I mean, I might as well be.
665
00:41:51,331 --> 00:41:54,209
You know, this was
ruining my life at the time.
666
00:41:54,307 --> 00:41:55,424
That's how I felt.
667
00:41:55,650 --> 00:41:58,687
It certainly was affecting my
ability to function,
668
00:41:58,785 --> 00:42:04,126
because it was
so emotionally draining.
669
00:42:04,287 --> 00:42:09,307
Part of the reason was because
there's nobody to help me.
670
00:42:10,621 --> 00:42:14,587
It's like you lose control over,
you know, your life.
671
00:42:21,660 --> 00:42:25,241
Dave: Well, that's when the,
uh, crap started happening,
672
00:42:25,402 --> 00:42:26,615
uh, with me.
673
00:42:27,673 --> 00:42:30,743
Um, you decide,
"okay, because I, uh,"
674
00:42:30,841 --> 00:42:33,719
I closed down
submissions for her,
675
00:42:33,817 --> 00:42:34,838
and,
676
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:39,222
I guess, I basically was like
her tickling drug dealer,
677
00:42:39,576 --> 00:42:42,837
and, uh, since she wasn't
getting her drug any more,
678
00:42:42,935 --> 00:42:45,460
she was going through
tickle withdrawals.
679
00:42:47,222 --> 00:42:49,012
David: And what happened?
680
00:42:49,813 --> 00:42:53,139
I started, uh,
receiving the, uh,
681
00:42:53,237 --> 00:42:57,074
strange postcards,
and the, uh, strange messages.
682
00:42:57,876 --> 00:43:01,841
The, uh... the, uh, talent was
starting to receive messages.
683
00:43:02,354 --> 00:43:06,799
And, uh, she also deployed a
thing called the phone blaster,
684
00:43:06,897 --> 00:43:13,134
which was to call
everybody with obscene messages.
685
00:43:14,064 --> 00:43:17,677
Woman:
686
00:43:46,351 --> 00:43:48,395
This person's on drugs.
687
00:43:50,253 --> 00:43:54,027
This person's gotta be
on crystal or something,
688
00:43:54,668 --> 00:43:57,802
or taking cocaine up the ass,
or something like that.
689
00:43:58,571 --> 00:43:59,913
It was weird.
690
00:44:02,346 --> 00:44:05,127
I'm glad to be able to make
this available to you.
691
00:44:05,225 --> 00:44:07,750
David: David kept a number of
letters Terri had sent him
692
00:44:07,848 --> 00:44:10,757
and was keen to show me
the extent of the abuse.
693
00:44:11,526 --> 00:44:15,907
- All right.
- This is the magic stuff.
694
00:44:16,997 --> 00:44:18,339
All right, what have we got?
695
00:44:22,371 --> 00:44:24,993
Yeah. Uh,
these are basically copies
696
00:44:25,091 --> 00:44:27,745
of what she would post online.
697
00:44:28,195 --> 00:44:29,857
So who's Barbara?
Is that your...?
698
00:44:29,954 --> 00:44:31,200
That's my mother.
699
00:44:31,873 --> 00:44:33,663
David: "Hairy and horny.
Hairy and horny."
700
00:44:33,761 --> 00:44:35,775
Jewish tickle filmer
David W. Starr
701
00:44:35,873 --> 00:44:37,279
"is hook-nosed,
hairy and horny."
702
00:44:37,376 --> 00:44:42,589
She's used that tagline
for many, many, many times.
703
00:44:42,688 --> 00:44:43,773
What did your...?
704
00:44:44,127 --> 00:44:45,789
What did your mother
think of this stuff
705
00:44:45,887 --> 00:44:47,772
when this turned up? I mean...
706
00:44:47,870 --> 00:44:49,756
Actually, her phrase was, uh...
707
00:44:49,854 --> 00:44:52,732
Here's a, uh, note that she left
me because, uh,
708
00:44:52,829 --> 00:44:54,715
she would hold these for me
in the mail
709
00:44:54,813 --> 00:44:57,818
and basically just say,
"here's another nasty thing."
710
00:44:57,916 --> 00:45:00,218
And that one actually
is unopened.
711
00:45:00,316 --> 00:45:02,874
I've never even opened
it to this date.
712
00:45:04,347 --> 00:45:08,888
And let's see what our little
illustrious friend had to say.
713
00:45:09,369 --> 00:45:11,415
Oh, god. So it's a card.
714
00:45:13,112 --> 00:45:16,086
David: "Roses are red,
violets are bue."
715
00:45:16,184 --> 00:45:17,782
Can't spell worth shit.
716
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,502
"David W. Starr has
brought this upon you."
717
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:23,445
Perhaps you wish,
perhaps instead,
718
00:45:23,543 --> 00:45:25,909
"that David your failure,
not Edward, were dead."
719
00:45:26,007 --> 00:45:28,532
That's a reference to
my brother, who is dead.
720
00:45:29,685 --> 00:45:33,043
That's, uh, really extreme.
A little bit psycho.
721
00:45:33,524 --> 00:45:35,602
But, I mean, what...? When you
were getting all this material
722
00:45:35,700 --> 00:45:38,289
and some of it's talking about
your brother who
723
00:45:38,387 --> 00:45:39,728
- has passed away and...
- Uh-huh.
724
00:45:39,826 --> 00:45:41,008
Writing this stuff
to your mother,
725
00:45:41,106 --> 00:45:43,695
I mean, that,
that must have...
726
00:45:45,105 --> 00:45:48,238
I mean, that... that's not nice
receiving that on weekly basis.
727
00:45:48,336 --> 00:45:52,301
Uh, no, but it was on a
weekly basis, uh, yeah.
728
00:45:54,318 --> 00:45:56,075
Yeah, where did
they have the time?
729
00:45:58,252 --> 00:46:00,170
- Jeez, it's a birthday card.
- Yeah.
730
00:46:00,268 --> 00:46:01,578
"Happy birthday.
731
00:46:02,156 --> 00:46:06,728
Edward Starr dead."
This is really cruel, right?
732
00:46:06,826 --> 00:46:08,072
It's very sick.
733
00:46:12,169 --> 00:46:14,439
David: The more I hear
about Terri Disisto,
734
00:46:14,537 --> 00:46:16,870
the more she sounds
like Jane O’Brien.
735
00:46:17,224 --> 00:46:20,869
To state the obvious, they
both really enjoy tickling.
736
00:46:20,967 --> 00:46:23,813
They also like being in
control and lashing out.
737
00:46:23,910 --> 00:46:25,572
I really appreciate it
and stay in touch.
738
00:46:28,005 --> 00:46:30,050
David: And it turns out
Terri's habits started
739
00:46:30,148 --> 00:46:32,385
way before Dave Starr
got involved.
740
00:46:32,803 --> 00:46:35,040
I've found a journalist who'd
spent a year uncovering
741
00:46:35,138 --> 00:46:38,591
the truth about Terri Disisto
during the '90s.
742
00:46:40,129 --> 00:46:42,751
Hal: Terri Disisto's mo
was to bait these boys
743
00:46:42,849 --> 00:46:44,767
into making
tickling videos with
744
00:46:44,865 --> 00:46:46,718
things that they wanted, right?
745
00:46:47,488 --> 00:46:49,181
You know, I mean,
imagine being a teenage boy,
746
00:46:49,279 --> 00:46:52,157
and, like, you get this random
email saying, you know,
747
00:46:52,255 --> 00:46:54,940
"I saw your posting about the
phish concert, and, uh,
748
00:46:55,038 --> 00:46:56,315
how would you like to go?"
749
00:46:56,413 --> 00:46:58,779
Or, " I can send you
$1000 cash."
750
00:46:58,877 --> 00:47:00,283
And you're like...
You're living in your dorm
751
00:47:00,381 --> 00:47:03,066
at James Madison university.
You're like, "yeah, sure."
752
00:47:03,164 --> 00:47:06,233
You're gonna send me
$1000 cash. Right."
753
00:47:07,195 --> 00:47:09,624
Fedex pulls up in front of your
dorm the next day,
754
00:47:09,722 --> 00:47:12,503
and there is ten $100 bills.
755
00:47:12,857 --> 00:47:14,134
You haven't done anything.
756
00:47:16,152 --> 00:47:18,518
She would just keep sending
them whatever they wanted,
757
00:47:18,616 --> 00:47:21,718
you know. Computers,
cameras, more cash,
758
00:47:21,975 --> 00:47:23,956
tickets to rock concerts.
759
00:47:25,397 --> 00:47:28,275
Then at some point,
even a teenage boy
760
00:47:28,373 --> 00:47:30,451
has all the toys
that they want.
761
00:47:31,316 --> 00:47:33,426
And they say, "I... I'm done."
762
00:47:34,771 --> 00:47:39,376
But I think the thing that
she hates the most was no.
763
00:47:39,633 --> 00:47:43,534
It was like...
A bomb went off.
764
00:47:46,063 --> 00:47:47,469
"And she'd say, " well,
765
00:47:47,598 --> 00:47:51,308
if you don't do it,
I'm gonna make your life hell."
766
00:47:52,749 --> 00:47:54,667
"I'm gonna send clips
of these videos
767
00:47:54,765 --> 00:47:56,171
to your wrestling coach."
768
00:47:56,780 --> 00:47:59,082
"I'm gonna send clips of
these videos to your mom."
769
00:47:59,180 --> 00:48:01,641
"I'm gonna send clips of these
videos to your grandmother."
770
00:48:01,739 --> 00:48:03,260
"I'm gonna send
clips of these videos
771
00:48:03,306 --> 00:48:05,384
to the president
of your university."
772
00:48:05,481 --> 00:48:06,919
"I'm gonna post them
all over the Internet."
773
00:48:07,144 --> 00:48:09,702
"I'm gonna pretend to be you
and do things on the Internet
774
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,262
that are gonna create a terrible
reputation for you."
775
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:16,676
"I'm gonna shut down the entire
college campus computer system
776
00:48:16,774 --> 00:48:19,651
at your college, and they're
gonna think it's you."
777
00:48:21,893 --> 00:48:23,107
And then it happened.
778
00:48:37,124 --> 00:48:39,394
Debbie: The first story I did
was because
779
00:48:39,811 --> 00:48:43,329
she was attacking, um,
Drexel university.
780
00:48:45,122 --> 00:48:49,088
And I found the student who, um,
781
00:48:49,826 --> 00:48:51,647
had made a number
of videos for her.
782
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,173
And when he came to
Philadelphia to go to college,
783
00:48:58,430 --> 00:49:00,667
she wanted him to
continue making these videos,
784
00:49:00,765 --> 00:49:03,931
and he wanted to cut off his
relationship with her.
785
00:49:04,125 --> 00:49:06,842
And she retaliated
on so many levels.
786
00:49:08,604 --> 00:49:10,297
Their email servers' computers
were being shut down
787
00:49:10,395 --> 00:49:12,280
with these
denial-of-service attacks
788
00:49:12,378 --> 00:49:14,968
that indicated that they
were coming from him.
789
00:49:18,202 --> 00:49:19,960
Email-bombing the white house,
790
00:49:20,313 --> 00:49:22,263
indicating that
it came from him.
791
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,005
Yeah, that's pretty serious
stuff when the secret service
792
00:49:26,103 --> 00:49:29,365
shows up in your college dorm
and you're 19 years old.
793
00:49:35,733 --> 00:49:38,482
I was just curious,
and I somehow
794
00:49:38,580 --> 00:49:42,257
started contacting
Terri on AOL.
795
00:49:42,259 --> 00:49:43,472
She had an account.
796
00:49:45,778 --> 00:49:48,271
And we would have these
chats late at night.
797
00:49:49,136 --> 00:49:53,325
And I was curious what kind of
mind was behind this...
798
00:49:53,967 --> 00:49:56,109
Celebrated Internet personage.
799
00:49:57,134 --> 00:49:59,883
And it was,
it was kind of crazy.
800
00:49:59,981 --> 00:50:01,611
We would have
these conversations,
801
00:50:03,532 --> 00:50:04,298
and she would...
802
00:50:04,299 --> 00:50:05,065
When she realized
that I did wine, she would say,
803
00:50:05,163 --> 00:50:08,104
"oh, I'm having a
glass of chardonnay!"
804
00:50:08,202 --> 00:50:12,039
And I could just hear this
voice because as it went on,
805
00:50:12,137 --> 00:50:15,111
it was almost like she was
completely intoxicated
806
00:50:15,336 --> 00:50:18,886
with this power
that she had to...
807
00:50:19,463 --> 00:50:21,381
To be so destructive
against people.
808
00:50:31,718 --> 00:50:35,619
Hal: I got word about a kidwho refused to make the videos.
809
00:50:37,221 --> 00:50:39,683
He posted that
he needed some help,
810
00:50:39,780 --> 00:50:41,922
and somebody said
they would help him.
811
00:50:45,444 --> 00:50:47,714
And somehow he got
emailed a file,
812
00:50:48,995 --> 00:50:52,832
"and he was told, " if you email
this zip file to Terri,
813
00:50:52,930 --> 00:50:54,495
she will leave you alone."
814
00:50:58,112 --> 00:50:59,902
And then he sent me
that zip file.
815
00:51:05,375 --> 00:51:07,836
You know, and I remember
opening it up and thinking...
816
00:51:09,309 --> 00:51:12,635
"Wow! You know, this is it.
Like, this is...
817
00:51:13,052 --> 00:51:14,746
This is the smoking gun."
818
00:51:21,690 --> 00:51:25,016
David: The zip file contained
documents from her hard drive.
819
00:51:25,114 --> 00:51:28,727
As expected, there were files
relating to tickling shoots.
820
00:51:31,193 --> 00:51:36,087
But they also revealed the
true identity of Terri tickle.
821
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:49,782
Hal: David D'Amato.
822
00:51:51,479 --> 00:51:55,029
She is really he, right?
823
00:52:05,077 --> 00:52:08,018
Debbie: He was an assistant
principal in a high school?
824
00:52:10,836 --> 00:52:12,049
I just...
825
00:52:15,058 --> 00:52:18,320
Couldn't believe it.
826
00:52:18,418 --> 00:52:20,943
I don't know why,
but it just seemed...
827
00:52:21,041 --> 00:52:24,686
Here is this sadistic person
exploiting these young people,
828
00:52:25,199 --> 00:52:26,797
often underage,
829
00:52:28,622 --> 00:52:31,691
making their lives miserable,
embarrassing them,
830
00:52:32,397 --> 00:52:34,411
to an extent that it's every...
831
00:52:34,508 --> 00:52:38,154
It goes against everything that
an educator should be doing.
832
00:52:45,387 --> 00:52:47,849
Hal: When I did some more
checking, I found out that
833
00:52:47,947 --> 00:52:51,016
he had worked at, like,
eight schools in ten years.
834
00:52:52,458 --> 00:52:54,056
Which to me was
always a red flag
835
00:52:54,153 --> 00:52:55,559
that there was something
else going on.
836
00:52:55,657 --> 00:52:58,407
I mean, that's more than
just sheer incompetence.
837
00:53:00,936 --> 00:53:04,614
And then I found
social security numbers for her
838
00:53:04,712 --> 00:53:06,757
that he had
gotten fraudulently...
839
00:53:07,495 --> 00:53:09,413
With dead people's names.
840
00:53:13,893 --> 00:53:18,115
So I contacted the FBI.
841
00:53:19,429 --> 00:53:22,114
I turned over all my
information to them.
842
00:53:23,620 --> 00:53:26,913
Within a week, they busted him.
843
00:53:39,267 --> 00:53:41,185
Debbie: We were shocked
at the sentencing
844
00:53:41,378 --> 00:53:43,968
because he got off so easy.
845
00:53:44,066 --> 00:53:46,591
For somebody who had done so
much damage,
846
00:53:47,808 --> 00:53:49,597
to me it was just extraordinary.
847
00:53:50,303 --> 00:53:52,765
And to not, to not have
restrictions on their
848
00:53:52,863 --> 00:53:56,796
Internet access after that,
how could...?
849
00:53:57,373 --> 00:54:00,123
And the... oh! And the idea that
he was going to law school
850
00:54:00,221 --> 00:54:01,754
was just absurd.
851
00:54:04,156 --> 00:54:07,001
David: It turns out
David D'Amato's father, George,
852
00:54:07,099 --> 00:54:09,721
co-founded one of wall street's
biggest law firms,
853
00:54:09,819 --> 00:54:13,912
D'Amato & Lynch, and David
got a really great lawyer.
854
00:54:14,393 --> 00:54:17,239
Instead of prison, D'Amato was
allowed to serve his sentence
855
00:54:17,337 --> 00:54:19,255
in the halfway house
while he studied law
856
00:54:19,353 --> 00:54:22,774
at his father's Alma mater,
Fordham university.
857
00:54:25,271 --> 00:54:27,829
Hal: The judge,
for some reason,
858
00:54:27,926 --> 00:54:31,188
decided that he would endorse
the law school path, right?
859
00:54:32,053 --> 00:54:33,491
Because, like, this is exactly
the kind of person
860
00:54:33,589 --> 00:54:35,251
that should be a lawyer, right?
861
00:54:35,348 --> 00:54:38,450
Somebody who has
defrauded people,
862
00:54:38,548 --> 00:54:40,433
somebody who has
stolen people's identities.
863
00:54:40,531 --> 00:54:42,096
A federal freakin' crime, right?
864
00:54:42,194 --> 00:54:45,296
I mean... like,
you know, stolen identity.
865
00:54:45,393 --> 00:54:47,407
Stolen a social security number
of a dead woman,
866
00:54:47,505 --> 00:54:49,391
of two dead people, right?
867
00:54:51,824 --> 00:54:55,405
"It said, " David D'Amato,
39, of garden city,
868
00:54:55,951 --> 00:54:58,221
plead guilty
for two federal counts of
869
00:54:58,318 --> 00:54:59,660
"computer fraud and abuse."
870
00:55:02,830 --> 00:55:04,940
Nothing about the tickling,
871
00:55:05,037 --> 00:55:08,747
nothing about the boys, nothing
about the identity theft.
872
00:55:08,876 --> 00:55:10,602
Zero. Nothing.
873
00:55:11,564 --> 00:55:14,378
David: Once Fordham became
aware of D'Amato's convictions,
874
00:55:14,475 --> 00:55:16,361
his admission was revoked.
875
00:55:16,459 --> 00:55:17,961
No longer able to study law,
876
00:55:18,058 --> 00:55:20,488
D'Amato finished
his sentence in prison.
877
00:55:20,873 --> 00:55:23,847
But I've realized that
didn't stop the tickling.
878
00:55:24,872 --> 00:55:27,302
David: So, this is 2002. So this
is writing to David Starr,
879
00:55:27,399 --> 00:55:29,445
who would shoot
these boys tickling
880
00:55:29,543 --> 00:55:31,205
and then send the videos...
881
00:55:32,454 --> 00:55:33,540
To Terri. That was a, that's...
882
00:55:33,638 --> 00:55:36,100
Because she,
what she would have is...
883
00:55:36,902 --> 00:55:38,691
- Do you want your glasses?
- Back in the early days...
884
00:55:38,789 --> 00:55:40,674
Yeah. Back in the early days...
885
00:55:42,469 --> 00:55:48,226
Terri would have friends
tickle them and send them the...
886
00:55:48,516 --> 00:55:50,434
They were amateur tapes.
887
00:55:50,531 --> 00:55:52,769
- These are now professional?
- Well, this is...
888
00:55:52,834 --> 00:55:54,336
- Look at the date on it.
- '02?
889
00:55:54,434 --> 00:55:55,584
Look at the date.
890
00:55:56,513 --> 00:55:59,550
- Is the "t" Terri?
- Yeah, it's Terri writing.
891
00:55:59,648 --> 00:56:03,645
So that was during, um,
lock-up time.
892
00:56:03,743 --> 00:56:06,428
Oh, in jail. I get it.
893
00:56:06,526 --> 00:56:11,548
"David, a few other things.
Email... explain my illness."
894
00:56:11,646 --> 00:56:13,660
Oh. "Tell him I'll pay
everything owed"
895
00:56:13,757 --> 00:56:16,571
as soon as the mono is better."
896
00:56:16,669 --> 00:56:22,010
Oh. "Get headshots."
My god! Oh, my god!
897
00:56:23,356 --> 00:56:29,081
"I won't be online for a while
as I am very sick." Oh.
898
00:56:34,938 --> 00:56:39,383
- Couldn't stop.
- No. No.
899
00:56:41,241 --> 00:56:43,542
David: It seems that
since the mid-'90s,
900
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,454
David D'Amato has never
stopped finding elaborate ways
901
00:56:46,552 --> 00:56:48,981
to get young men
to tickle each other.
902
00:56:49,494 --> 00:56:50,996
His persona of Terri tickle
903
00:56:51,094 --> 00:56:54,483
seems to have dropped off the
radar around 2006.
904
00:56:55,221 --> 00:56:58,930
A while later, Jane O’Brien
arrived on the scene.
905
00:57:02,579 --> 00:57:04,401
We've posted
this theory online,
906
00:57:04,498 --> 00:57:07,151
and David D'Amato is not happy.
907
00:57:08,849 --> 00:57:12,366
He's hired not one, but two
private investigators,
908
00:57:12,464 --> 00:57:15,085
one in New Zealand
and one in New York.
909
00:57:16,687 --> 00:57:20,236
The message is clear. They tell
us to stop what we're doing
910
00:57:20,334 --> 00:57:23,883
and that D'Amato has nothing
to do with Jane O’Brien media.
911
00:57:26,764 --> 00:57:28,426
On top of that,
912
00:57:28,427 --> 00:57:30,089
David D'Amato has also hired
a New Zealand lawyer.
913
00:57:30,380 --> 00:57:32,809
He's demanding
an apology and retraction
914
00:57:32,907 --> 00:57:35,785
or else he'll see us
in a New Zealand court.
915
00:57:44,650 --> 00:57:45,767
We're now being attacked
916
00:57:45,865 --> 00:57:48,102
by Jane O'brien's lawyers
on one side
917
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,437
and David D'Amato's
on the other,
918
00:57:50,919 --> 00:57:54,563
both insisting they have
nothing to do with each other.
919
00:57:54,917 --> 00:57:57,635
Once again, we're way
out of our depth.
920
00:58:00,644 --> 00:58:02,178
Things get even more surreal
921
00:58:02,243 --> 00:58:04,097
with a phone call
from Michigan,
922
00:58:04,195 --> 00:58:06,465
where there's a very different
tickling operation
923
00:58:06,563 --> 00:58:08,321
also being run by Jane.
924
00:58:11,458 --> 00:58:15,199
Jordan:
925
00:58:54,048 --> 00:58:56,253
David: So, like,
crime is pretty high...
926
00:58:56,414 --> 00:58:57,980
- Jordan: Yeah...
- ...Here, right?
927
00:58:58,077 --> 00:59:02,714
Murder, robberies, um, rape,
I mean, theft.
928
00:59:02,812 --> 00:59:04,506
It's all up there,
929
00:59:04,604 --> 00:59:07,770
especially for being as small,
um, as what it is.
930
00:59:07,867 --> 00:59:09,689
We've made it now, uh,
931
00:59:09,786 --> 00:59:13,975
on to the top 100 most dangerous
cities in the United States.
932
00:59:14,649 --> 00:59:16,311
David:
Do you think on some level
933
00:59:16,409 --> 00:59:19,542
Jane kind of directed things
here because it is a poor area?
934
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:23,093
Yeah, you know,
the poverty level, you know,
935
00:59:23,191 --> 00:59:24,693
- is easy to target, you know.
- Mm.
936
00:59:24,791 --> 00:59:27,124
Thousands of dollars
in kids' hands is...
937
00:59:27,222 --> 00:59:29,043
That's a,
that's a big, big deal.
938
01:00:13,935 --> 01:00:19,436
David: Jane has taken a liking to one of
muskegon's main sports, mixed martial arts.
939
01:00:19,534 --> 01:00:23,531
A group of young, athletic men
desperate for extra money.
940
01:00:44,268 --> 01:00:47,209
Jordan: That's what she was trying
to do, is break into the MMA world.
941
01:00:48,171 --> 01:00:50,601
Because it's not illegal
to tickle somebody
942
01:00:50,698 --> 01:00:53,512
to get out of a submission
in mixed martial arts.
943
01:00:54,250 --> 01:00:55,687
Like, she was trying
to pitch that
944
01:00:55,785 --> 01:00:56,646
because she, like,
945
01:00:56,648 --> 01:00:59,270
looked it up in all the rules
and everything.
946
01:01:00,168 --> 01:01:03,526
But if you tickle a guy in the
middle of that ring
947
01:01:03,623 --> 01:01:05,157
to get out of a submission,
948
01:01:05,255 --> 01:01:07,748
you might step out of the cage
and get punched in the face.
949
01:01:08,454 --> 01:01:12,868
Like, never in a million years
out of all my fights
950
01:01:13,029 --> 01:01:15,554
would I ever try to
tickle somebody
951
01:01:15,652 --> 01:01:18,945
to get out of a submission.
Fuck, no!
952
01:01:35,518 --> 01:01:36,924
David: As an ex-fighter,
953
01:01:37,022 --> 01:01:40,348
Jordan was paid to recruit
tickling talent in the town.
954
01:01:40,446 --> 01:01:44,123
He's the only one in muskegon
prepared to appear on camera.
955
01:01:45,372 --> 01:01:51,321
She offered my one buddy a
2014 Chevy cruze and $30,000.
956
01:01:51,739 --> 01:01:53,816
- What? What for? To tickle?
- Yeah.
957
01:01:53,977 --> 01:01:57,143
Just 'cause, like,
she liked him.
958
01:01:57,241 --> 01:01:58,358
Yeah, right. She...
He was a favorite.
959
01:01:58,519 --> 01:01:59,829
- Like, yeah.
- Yeah.
960
01:01:59,927 --> 01:02:02,260
Asians and redheads
are what they call premiums.
961
01:02:02,358 --> 01:02:04,660
If you get those, like,
she gives you bonuses.
962
01:02:05,269 --> 01:02:07,154
I'm Jordan Schillaci,
and this is cet.
963
01:02:07,252 --> 01:02:09,329
Uh, we're gonna be
having a discussion,
964
01:02:09,427 --> 01:02:12,049
more of a debate today about
whether tickling
965
01:02:12,147 --> 01:02:15,153
is effective in
a combat situation.
966
01:02:19,314 --> 01:02:21,075
We ended up setting up
a tickle cell. Like,
967
01:02:21,265 --> 01:02:22,466
where you get guys to come in,
968
01:02:22,513 --> 01:02:25,071
"we'll pay you and you
pay them to audition."
969
01:02:25,169 --> 01:02:27,886
No!
970
01:02:30,319 --> 01:02:32,781
So we'd choose a hotel,
nothing fancy,
971
01:02:32,878 --> 01:02:36,748
and, uh, the guys would come
in and hang out, you know,
972
01:02:36,846 --> 01:02:40,971
smoke, drink, eat pizza,
fuckin', and we'd hurry up
973
01:02:41,069 --> 01:02:44,330
and run through, you know,
five, six, seven guys.
974
01:02:49,323 --> 01:02:52,041
So you're... you were looking after
the tickle cell in muskegon?
975
01:02:52,139 --> 01:02:54,216
Yeah, they have them set up
all over the us.
976
01:02:54,314 --> 01:02:57,928
Ohio, Michigan,
Florida, New York.
977
01:02:58,025 --> 01:02:59,815
- I mean, they're everywhere.
- Right.
978
01:02:59,944 --> 01:03:01,863
- And they're all for Jane?
- Yeah.
979
01:03:02,376 --> 01:03:03,686
Fuckin' hell.
980
01:03:09,478 --> 01:03:10,884
Jordan: Well, that's where
a lot of people started
981
01:03:10,982 --> 01:03:12,611
getting really
really upset, man.
982
01:03:12,709 --> 01:03:13,891
Because all of sudden
these videos
983
01:03:13,893 --> 01:03:15,970
that are supposed to be
just auditions were on YouTube,
984
01:03:15,972 --> 01:03:18,850
vimeo, and every other
site you could imagine.
985
01:03:18,948 --> 01:03:21,153
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Nobody was okay with that.
986
01:03:23,427 --> 01:03:24,992
One of the guys, Brodie,
987
01:03:25,090 --> 01:03:28,127
like, his family was very upset
with him. It was all over.
988
01:03:28,225 --> 01:03:30,782
Like, people just picked on him
and picked on him.
989
01:03:31,488 --> 01:03:34,302
You know, he was underage,
still in school.
990
01:03:34,592 --> 01:03:36,765
And it wasn't supposed
to go out on the Internet.
991
01:03:36,863 --> 01:03:39,420
It wasn't supposed to be put up,
and, uh,
992
01:03:39,550 --> 01:03:43,099
you know,
that just kind of sucked.
993
01:03:43,197 --> 01:03:45,243
Because, like I said,
it took Brodie...
994
01:03:45,341 --> 01:03:46,618
It hit one of the hardest.
995
01:03:46,716 --> 01:03:48,185
Like, this whole situation
996
01:03:48,283 --> 01:03:50,585
and then being underage
and his parents.
997
01:03:50,682 --> 01:03:52,728
Who do you have to turn to?
Who are you going to attack?
998
01:03:52,826 --> 01:03:56,119
No... Jane O'brien's a ghost.
Nobody knows who it is.
999
01:03:58,233 --> 01:03:59,767
Jordan: Cody-bear, no.
1000
01:04:00,696 --> 01:04:03,125
This is Colton,
this is my nephew.
1001
01:04:03,223 --> 01:04:04,984
- David: Hey, man.
- Colton, how old are you?
1002
01:04:05,878 --> 01:04:07,124
How old are you?
1003
01:04:07,318 --> 01:04:08,531
- Three.
- You're three?
1004
01:04:08,629 --> 01:04:10,098
You're three? All right.
1005
01:04:10,867 --> 01:04:12,849
- I'm David.
- I'm Phil. How are you doing?
1006
01:04:12,947 --> 01:04:14,160
It's nice to meet you, sir.
1007
01:04:15,185 --> 01:04:17,518
I was really, really reluctant
1008
01:04:17,616 --> 01:04:19,136
when Jordan
started talking about this.
1009
01:04:19,215 --> 01:04:22,189
And he's like, "this lady seems
straight and legit, mom."
1010
01:04:22,287 --> 01:04:25,452
I'm like, you know,
"these... these boys are young."
1011
01:04:25,550 --> 01:04:28,844
It's easy to believe,
but when you're an old mom,
1012
01:04:29,261 --> 01:04:31,914
you're a little more leery
for the boys, and,
1013
01:04:32,044 --> 01:04:34,922
I was very leery
right from get-go
1014
01:04:35,020 --> 01:04:37,001
that the boys were
gonna get into trouble
1015
01:04:37,099 --> 01:04:38,824
and this was not legit.
1016
01:04:48,745 --> 01:04:50,566
Jordan: She has all the money in
the world, it seems like,
1017
01:04:50,664 --> 01:04:52,805
whoever it is,
to be able to do this.
1018
01:04:52,903 --> 01:04:56,068
But they're waiting for
that day that you rely
1019
01:04:56,805 --> 01:04:58,883
on that as a sole income.
1020
01:04:59,204 --> 01:05:01,154
That was her big,
I think, power trip.
1021
01:05:01,252 --> 01:05:04,737
She waited until a bunch of
us relied on that income
1022
01:05:04,834 --> 01:05:07,264
because that was our
only source of income.
1023
01:05:07,362 --> 01:05:09,024
We'd been doing it for so long,
we didn't think...
1024
01:05:09,121 --> 01:05:11,615
She waited until she had
complete control,
1025
01:05:11,713 --> 01:05:13,983
basically, over your situation,
1026
01:05:14,337 --> 01:05:15,774
and that's when she
wanted to yank that rug
1027
01:05:15,872 --> 01:05:17,341
right out from under you.
1028
01:05:22,015 --> 01:05:25,052
David: David D'Amato. Have you
heard that name before?
1029
01:05:25,565 --> 01:05:27,130
In relation to all this stuff?
1030
01:05:28,764 --> 01:05:31,545
I am literally, like,
trembling right now.
1031
01:05:31,643 --> 01:05:32,697
Are you actually shaking?
1032
01:05:32,698 --> 01:05:36,632
Yeah, I'm actually, like,
shaking. Like, I'm not, like...
1033
01:05:36,730 --> 01:05:39,544
Like I said, like, from being
from here, I don't take shit.
1034
01:05:39,642 --> 01:05:42,616
Like, if I met up with that guy,
I'd punch him right out.
1035
01:05:42,714 --> 01:05:44,824
And when he woke up, he'd be
strapped to a chair with a...
1036
01:05:44,921 --> 01:05:45,943
Like, I'd be like,
1037
01:05:46,104 --> 01:05:47,944
"dude, you're telling me
everything right now."
1038
01:05:54,391 --> 01:05:56,628
David: The tickling's still
happening in this town.
1039
01:05:57,110 --> 01:05:59,124
Jordan: The money is endless.
1040
01:05:59,222 --> 01:06:02,259
I've never seen it stop coming
and just flowing in.
1041
01:06:02,357 --> 01:06:04,077
And it's not just through
Michigan and la,
1042
01:06:04,117 --> 01:06:05,202
it's everywhere.
1043
01:06:05,844 --> 01:06:09,618
Like, England,
Australia, Italy.
1044
01:06:09,715 --> 01:06:12,529
I mean, the money's
still coming and going.
1045
01:06:16,786 --> 01:06:18,097
David: This tickling empire
1046
01:06:18,194 --> 01:06:20,495
is way bigger
than we ever imagined.
1047
01:06:22,384 --> 01:06:25,326
We're going to New York
to find David D'Amato.
1048
01:07:01,197 --> 01:07:04,971
I can feel the rich/bad aura.
1049
01:07:07,468 --> 01:07:10,282
David D'Amato's address is
listed in garden city,
1050
01:07:10,380 --> 01:07:12,680
an affluent suburb
of long island.
1051
01:07:15,178 --> 01:07:17,639
He lives on the top floor
of this building.
1052
01:07:19,113 --> 01:07:20,273
Lance:
Lance Roberts speaking.
1053
01:07:20,328 --> 01:07:21,925
David:
Oh, hi. It's David speaking.
1054
01:07:22,023 --> 01:07:24,548
I just wanted to talk to
David D'Amato.
1055
01:07:24,902 --> 01:07:27,556
Lance: Um, okay. I can't
give you his phone number.
1056
01:07:27,685 --> 01:07:28,803
I really can't even
give you any
1057
01:07:28,901 --> 01:07:30,530
personal information on him.
1058
01:07:30,947 --> 01:07:31,968
David: Okay.
1059
01:07:32,386 --> 01:07:33,631
Lance: Do you know him?
1060
01:07:33,729 --> 01:07:36,319
- Yes, I do. Yes.
- You're a friend of his?
1061
01:07:36,417 --> 01:07:39,006
Um, I'm not a friend, no,
but I've, um...
1062
01:07:39,104 --> 01:07:40,541
I've been trying to get
in touch with him
1063
01:07:40,639 --> 01:07:41,949
but have been struggling.
1064
01:07:42,718 --> 01:07:43,759
Lance: Okay, what I do is,
1065
01:07:43,838 --> 01:07:45,595
I have a way of leaving him
a message.
1066
01:07:46,493 --> 01:07:48,635
I can't guarantee that
he's gonna call you back
1067
01:07:48,733 --> 01:07:49,786
if he doesn't know you.
1068
01:07:49,788 --> 01:07:52,538
- Okay, thank you so much. Bye.
- You're welcome.
1069
01:07:59,673 --> 01:08:01,558
David:
D'Amato never calls us back,
1070
01:08:01,657 --> 01:08:04,662
and we've got no other way to
contact him directly.
1071
01:08:06,839 --> 01:08:08,052
So annoying.
1072
01:08:13,717 --> 01:08:15,699
It's all right.
There's still tomorrow.
1073
01:08:19,443 --> 01:08:22,416
David: But that night we get a
frustrating phone call.
1074
01:08:23,666 --> 01:08:26,191
My concern is that we can't
do more or less anything
1075
01:08:26,289 --> 01:08:27,889
we have planned for
the rest of the trip.
1076
01:08:29,232 --> 01:08:30,989
I know. It's, like,
it's fuckin' insane.
1077
01:08:32,942 --> 01:08:34,539
Okay. Bye-bye.
1078
01:08:37,261 --> 01:08:40,106
David: All the threats are
worrying our film's producer.
1079
01:08:40,204 --> 01:08:41,866
He doesn't want us
to risk provoking
1080
01:08:41,964 --> 01:08:44,362
any further legal action
from D'Amato.
1081
01:08:44,875 --> 01:08:45,736
So he's saying,
1082
01:08:45,738 --> 01:08:47,527
"well, what if you do everything
that you were gonna do,
1083
01:08:47,529 --> 01:08:49,639
except don't go and
chase D'Amato down?"
1084
01:08:49,737 --> 01:08:51,302
And I'm like,
"well, anything we do
1085
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:53,254
that lets D'Amato know we're
looking into him again."
1086
01:08:53,352 --> 01:08:55,141
- Well, from now on in is that.
- Yeah, literally.
1087
01:08:55,239 --> 01:08:57,796
So he says, "well, maybe we cut
the thing short, then."
1088
01:08:58,598 --> 01:08:59,843
Just go home."
1089
01:09:00,837 --> 01:09:02,595
I know it's like...
It's fuckin' insane.
1090
01:09:12,420 --> 01:09:15,650
David: The next day we put
chasing D'Amato on hold.
1091
01:09:18,756 --> 01:09:20,738
I want to know how on earth
1092
01:09:20,836 --> 01:09:23,169
a former deputy principal
pays for all this.
1093
01:09:23,747 --> 01:09:27,008
We can't find any sign he's
earning money from the videos,
1094
01:09:27,106 --> 01:09:29,631
but he's spending lots
of money making them.
1095
01:09:30,113 --> 01:09:33,310
He's flying up to ten people
into la almost every month
1096
01:09:33,408 --> 01:09:35,262
from all
over the world,
1097
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:36,829
putting them up
in a nice hotel,
1098
01:09:36,927 --> 01:09:39,164
paying them thousands in cash.
1099
01:09:39,581 --> 01:09:41,182
And that's not even taking
into account
1100
01:09:41,277 --> 01:09:42,558
the cost of running
tickle cells,
1101
01:09:42,620 --> 01:09:44,378
like the one in muskegon.
1102
01:09:46,364 --> 01:09:48,441
Both David's parents
are now deceased,
1103
01:09:48,539 --> 01:09:51,288
but his father's law firm is
one of wall street's biggest.
1104
01:09:52,026 --> 01:09:54,103
Maybe David is
reaping the benefits
1105
01:09:54,105 --> 01:09:55,767
of his father's empire.
1106
01:09:58,233 --> 01:09:59,446
Woman:
D'Amato & Lynch.
1107
01:09:59,544 --> 01:10:03,284
Oh, hi.
I just had an inquiry, um,
1108
01:10:03,382 --> 01:10:06,835
about the relationship with,
uh, um,
1109
01:10:06,933 --> 01:10:11,282
David D'Amato with the company,
the son of George D'Amato.
1110
01:10:11,380 --> 01:10:13,298
Is there someone I could
talk to about this?
1111
01:10:14,836 --> 01:10:18,896
No, I'm sorry. And Mr. D'Amato
has been gone for a long time.
1112
01:10:19,250 --> 01:10:24,431
Yeah, yeah. I'm looking into the
background to his son, David.
1113
01:10:24,529 --> 01:10:26,286
And I'm just trying to figure
out whether he's got
1114
01:10:26,384 --> 01:10:29,294
any financial relationship
with the company still.
1115
01:10:29,392 --> 01:10:32,877
No, I... I really don't know.
I'm sorry, I can't help you.
1116
01:10:32,975 --> 01:10:36,684
Is there someone I could talk to
at D'Amato & Lynch to find out?
1117
01:10:37,582 --> 01:10:40,844
Mm. Not that I believe, no.
I'm sorry.
1118
01:10:40,942 --> 01:10:43,308
Okay, but there must be a
way to find out, surely?
1119
01:10:43,789 --> 01:10:47,563
Um, not here. Thank you.
1120
01:10:59,372 --> 01:11:02,634
Woman: I haven't seen David
in quite a few years.
1121
01:11:02,732 --> 01:11:04,234
I have no knowledge of him now.
1122
01:11:04,843 --> 01:11:07,432
Not in many years have I
had any contact with him,
1123
01:11:07,530 --> 01:11:09,607
so I really couldn't give
you any information.
1124
01:11:09,705 --> 01:11:12,519
David: Yeah, he's been
pretty aggressive towards me,
1125
01:11:12,617 --> 01:11:15,206
so I'm just trying to figure
out what his motivations are...
1126
01:11:15,304 --> 01:11:17,385
Woman: Get away from him,
that's all I can tell you.
1127
01:11:18,183 --> 01:11:21,220
- David: Really?
- Yeah. Stay away from him.
1128
01:11:32,037 --> 01:11:33,923
David: This was every
conversation I had
1129
01:11:34,021 --> 01:11:37,474
with anyone even remotely
related to David D'Amato.
1130
01:11:37,572 --> 01:11:40,578
"I can't tell you anything,
but stay away."
1131
01:11:40,675 --> 01:11:43,041
But all I want to
do is the opposite.
1132
01:11:43,139 --> 01:11:46,465
Someone has to confront this
bully, lawsuits or not.
1133
01:11:59,842 --> 01:12:03,712
Dylan: Okay. So, this is the car
we're looking for.
1134
01:12:03,809 --> 01:12:07,294
It's a Mercedes Benz ml430.
1135
01:12:12,831 --> 01:12:15,901
David: David D'Amato has gone
out of his way to avoid us.
1136
01:12:15,999 --> 01:12:18,748
We figure if we wait outside
his apartment long enough,
1137
01:12:18,846 --> 01:12:20,732
eventually he'll have to leave.
1138
01:12:21,694 --> 01:12:23,771
Dylan: So, that's a Chevrolet.
1139
01:12:24,956 --> 01:12:26,276
Oh, hang on a second,
what's this?
1140
01:12:26,364 --> 01:12:27,418
What's this? What's this?
1141
01:12:28,187 --> 01:12:29,656
Okay, there's a car there.
I can see it.
1142
01:12:29,754 --> 01:12:31,832
Now, just in the edge. Hang on.
1143
01:12:37,625 --> 01:12:39,031
David: A grand Cherokee.
1144
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:42,134
Well, maybe just a Cherokee.
1145
01:12:42,231 --> 01:12:44,021
But it's certainly
not a Mercedes.
1146
01:12:49,750 --> 01:12:52,820
- David: What's the time?
- Dylan: 2:44.
1147
01:12:52,918 --> 01:12:55,699
So we've been here for,
like, four hours?
1148
01:12:59,604 --> 01:13:02,290
David: We've been waiting
like this for days.
1149
01:13:03,507 --> 01:13:04,528
Dylan: Come on.
1150
01:13:04,530 --> 01:13:07,440
David: And it seems like
he'll never come out.
1151
01:13:09,553 --> 01:13:11,274
Dylan: Okay. Let me just check.
It's also...
1152
01:13:11,345 --> 01:13:16,175
It is the right type of car.
It's got white plates.
1153
01:13:16,784 --> 01:13:18,542
Hang on. Hang on. Okay.
1154
01:13:20,271 --> 01:13:21,804
It's him. It's him.
It's him. It's him.
1155
01:13:25,038 --> 01:13:26,924
He's coming out. Just wait here.
1156
01:13:27,021 --> 01:13:29,195
Just sit here.
All right, stay cool.
1157
01:13:30,252 --> 01:13:31,530
Okay, I'm gonna...
1158
01:13:38,378 --> 01:13:39,656
Okay, he's up here.
1159
01:13:47,016 --> 01:13:48,806
He's in the right-hand...
Is he in the left-hand Lane?
1160
01:13:48,904 --> 01:13:50,150
David: Yeah.
1161
01:13:53,221 --> 01:13:54,403
He hasn't turned right.
He's in...
1162
01:13:54,501 --> 01:13:55,522
Whoa! You're one car behind him.
1163
01:13:55,620 --> 01:13:58,274
You're right in his...
In his mirror now.
1164
01:14:15,744 --> 01:14:18,237
- I'm breathing heavily.
- Yeah, same.
1165
01:14:19,358 --> 01:14:21,756
Dylan: Okay. Okay. It's cool.
1166
01:14:21,885 --> 01:14:23,686
We're right behind him now,
so back off a bit,
1167
01:14:23,773 --> 01:14:25,178
so we're not gonna be too close.
1168
01:14:27,195 --> 01:14:28,697
Okay.
1169
01:14:30,011 --> 01:14:32,313
Just stay... stay back.
Stay back, David.
1170
01:14:32,602 --> 01:14:34,072
We're gonna have to
stop right behind him now.
1171
01:14:34,170 --> 01:14:36,290
You might have to take the
camera off the tripod, Dom.
1172
01:14:37,176 --> 01:14:38,870
David: Yeah, camera
off tripod, please.
1173
01:14:40,567 --> 01:14:41,780
Dylan: Starbucks?
Okay, this is perfect.
1174
01:14:41,878 --> 01:14:43,079
David: Okay. He'll be a while.
1175
01:14:44,245 --> 01:14:46,766
Okay. I'm just gonna go and have
conversation when he comes out.
1176
01:14:48,564 --> 01:14:50,289
You've... I've got my
phone if you need me.
1177
01:14:50,387 --> 01:14:51,664
Okay.
1178
01:15:03,250 --> 01:15:05,010
David: I'm about to meet
this man who's been
1179
01:15:05,073 --> 01:15:06,414
such a threatening figure
1180
01:15:06,512 --> 01:15:09,581
in so many lives,
including my own,
1181
01:15:11,247 --> 01:15:14,284
and I have simply no idea
what to expect.
1182
01:15:38,381 --> 01:15:41,387
- Dylan: He's coming out.
- David: Mr. D'Amato.
1183
01:15:42,124 --> 01:15:44,586
- Hi, it's Dave Farrier.
- D'Amato:
1184
01:15:44,684 --> 01:15:46,249
David: Hey, how are you?
1185
01:15:47,466 --> 01:15:49,160
D'Amato:
1186
01:15:49,321 --> 01:15:52,165
David: I just wanted
to talk to you briefly.
1187
01:15:52,999 --> 01:15:54,245
If I could.
1188
01:15:55,430 --> 01:15:57,859
Because I was just...
I'm just worried about...
1189
01:16:00,837 --> 01:16:02,210
The legal letters
you've sent me,
1190
01:16:02,340 --> 01:16:03,781
and I just wanted to know
if we could
1191
01:16:03,876 --> 01:16:05,506
just talk about it face-to-face.
1192
01:16:05,603 --> 01:16:08,225
D'Amato:
1193
01:16:08,355 --> 01:16:09,632
David: Is there?
1194
01:16:09,730 --> 01:16:13,024
D'Amato:
1195
01:16:19,809 --> 01:16:22,590
I'm on a journalism visa,
so I'm, I'm okay to be here.
1196
01:16:22,688 --> 01:16:24,445
I'm okay to be here.
But I just...
1197
01:16:26,526 --> 01:16:28,188
Could we just talk a
little bit about...
1198
01:16:29,117 --> 01:16:31,099
I just wanted to find
out what's going on.
1199
01:16:31,356 --> 01:16:32,601
D'Amato:
1200
01:16:32,699 --> 01:16:36,056
Because the last heard I was
gonna be in a us court
1201
01:16:36,185 --> 01:16:37,239
and a New Zealand court,
1202
01:16:37,241 --> 01:16:39,766
and I really just wanted to
sort this out face-to-face.
1203
01:16:39,864 --> 01:16:41,046
D'Amato:
1204
01:16:41,144 --> 01:16:42,421
And I just want to sort of...
1205
01:16:42,519 --> 01:16:43,880
I mean,
I'm not here to antagonize.
1206
01:16:43,958 --> 01:16:46,292
I just genuinely want
to be able to help out.
1207
01:16:46,390 --> 01:16:48,531
D'Amato:
1208
01:16:48,629 --> 01:16:50,354
Well, you did say you were
gonna sue me.
1209
01:16:50,611 --> 01:16:52,369
And I just wanna sort this
issue out.
1210
01:16:53,746 --> 01:16:55,408
D'Amato:
1211
01:16:55,506 --> 01:16:57,392
Could you contact me
if possible?
1212
01:17:20,912 --> 01:17:23,054
David: I went away feeling numb.
1213
01:17:23,311 --> 01:17:26,923
D'Amato was calm, going
instantly to legal threats,
1214
01:17:27,405 --> 01:17:30,923
which is what he's always done,
I suppose, as Terri,
1215
01:17:31,404 --> 01:17:32,681
as Jane,
1216
01:17:33,290 --> 01:17:34,440
as himself.
1217
01:17:40,617 --> 01:17:43,750
But after all this, I still
couldn't help but wonder
1218
01:17:43,848 --> 01:17:45,669
were we totally certain that
D'Amato
1219
01:17:45,767 --> 01:17:48,964
really was Jane and Debbie?
Could we be wrong?
1220
01:17:50,085 --> 01:17:52,323
So we went back to
where it all started,
1221
01:17:52,420 --> 01:17:53,858
those 300 domain names
1222
01:17:53,956 --> 01:17:56,481
connected to
the Nederdietsen group.
1223
01:17:59,010 --> 01:18:01,599
And that's when things
went a little crazy.
1224
01:18:02,081 --> 01:18:03,422
On one of those
domain names
1225
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:05,438
there was
just a directory listing,
1226
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:08,541
including a folder called
"my documents".
1227
01:18:11,838 --> 01:18:13,532
It looks like D'Amato
has accidently
1228
01:18:13,630 --> 01:18:16,379
made hundreds of his
private files public
1229
01:18:16,765 --> 01:18:18,075
on the Internet.
1230
01:18:23,484 --> 01:18:25,146
There's D'Amato's signature
1231
01:18:25,211 --> 01:18:27,928
on a Nederdietsen
registration form.
1232
01:18:30,713 --> 01:18:33,367
There's also a contract with
the investigation company
1233
01:18:33,464 --> 01:18:35,030
he hired to look into us.
1234
01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:37,205
The address is exactly the same
1235
01:18:37,302 --> 01:18:39,540
as the address used by
Jane O’Brien media
1236
01:18:39,638 --> 01:18:42,419
when booking rooms at the
Hilton in New Zealand.
1237
01:18:45,428 --> 01:18:47,282
Then there are documents
and signatures
1238
01:18:47,380 --> 01:18:49,937
for Debbie Kuhn
and Jane O’Brien...
1239
01:18:51,762 --> 01:18:54,255
Who's also got her
own credit card.
1240
01:18:55,377 --> 01:18:56,783
And it turns out that D'Amato
1241
01:18:56,912 --> 01:18:58,958
did finally
get that law degree,
1242
01:18:59,055 --> 01:19:01,933
from Hofstra university
in 2011.
1243
01:19:03,983 --> 01:19:06,861
He's also been telling the boys
to enter the United States
1244
01:19:06,959 --> 01:19:09,900
on a tourist visa,
even though they're working.
1245
01:19:11,342 --> 01:19:12,779
And it's finally clear to me
1246
01:19:12,877 --> 01:19:15,050
how he funds
his tickling empire.
1247
01:19:17,131 --> 01:19:18,633
As of late 2012,
1248
01:19:18,731 --> 01:19:21,928
he had almost six million
in his checking account.
1249
01:19:23,017 --> 01:19:25,639
And his living expenses were
being paid by a trust
1250
01:19:25,737 --> 01:19:27,558
established by his father.
1251
01:19:30,888 --> 01:19:33,606
He also inherited millions from
his mother's estate
1252
01:19:33,704 --> 01:19:35,652
when she died in 2014.
1253
01:19:38,022 --> 01:19:40,004
It's all family money.
1254
01:19:43,461 --> 01:19:45,315
There are also lots of emails
1255
01:19:45,413 --> 01:19:47,746
sent from Jane O'brien's
legal department.
1256
01:19:48,963 --> 01:19:52,608
With this in mind, we call
in to see Romeo Salta,
1257
01:19:52,706 --> 01:19:54,912
the lawyer hired
by Jane O’Brien media
1258
01:19:55,010 --> 01:19:57,407
who's been sending us all
the legal threats.
1259
01:19:58,145 --> 01:20:00,351
We want to ask him about
the correspondence
1260
01:20:00,448 --> 01:20:02,046
his office has sent us.
1261
01:20:02,528 --> 01:20:04,669
David: But I just thought
you'd be curious to see...
1262
01:20:05,182 --> 01:20:07,324
Things been issued
in la county court,
1263
01:20:07,422 --> 01:20:09,275
that's signed off here
with your name.
1264
01:20:09,693 --> 01:20:12,282
There's another example of that
with that email address.
1265
01:20:12,380 --> 01:20:13,241
Romeo: Yeah.
1266
01:20:13,243 --> 01:20:15,832
To that, as opposed to you. I mean,
we got the one from you originally,
1267
01:20:15,834 --> 01:20:17,464
which we... it's fine. We don't
need to talk about that.
1268
01:20:17,561 --> 01:20:19,383
It's very simple.
I only sent one.
1269
01:20:19,481 --> 01:20:20,502
Dylan: Yeah.
1270
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:21,621
David: Yeah.
1271
01:20:21,719 --> 01:20:23,061
- There's your answer.
- Yeah.
1272
01:20:24,566 --> 01:20:26,260
Romeo: I'll see what I can do to
make those stop.
1273
01:20:26,358 --> 01:20:27,635
Have they stopped?
1274
01:20:27,796 --> 01:20:29,106
Dylan: Uh, we haven't heard
anything for a little while.
1275
01:20:29,204 --> 01:20:30,194
They're listing your address
1276
01:20:30,292 --> 01:20:31,857
as their corporate headquarters,
though.
1277
01:20:33,875 --> 01:20:35,504
- My address?
- Yeah, if you look at...
1278
01:20:35,602 --> 01:20:36,623
David: Your office.
1279
01:20:38,065 --> 01:20:39,087
Dylan: Janeobrienmedia. Com,
1280
01:20:39,088 --> 01:20:40,110
your address is listed as their
corporate headquarters.
1281
01:20:40,464 --> 01:20:42,286
Yeah, but it's not my...
1282
01:20:42,383 --> 01:20:43,821
Dylan: No, no.
On their website at the bottom.
1283
01:20:43,919 --> 01:20:45,548
Romeo: But it's not, um...
1284
01:20:45,902 --> 01:20:47,244
Dylan: I don't know if it's...
1285
01:20:47,342 --> 01:20:48,459
It says
"office of corporate counsel
1286
01:20:48,557 --> 01:20:49,770
and New York headquarters."
1287
01:20:49,868 --> 01:20:51,108
Romeo: Well, that's my address.
1288
01:20:52,458 --> 01:20:54,008
David: Yeah.
1289
01:20:54,009 --> 01:20:55,559
- But it's not their...
- It's crazy. But it's...
1290
01:20:55,721 --> 01:20:58,054
Um, I mean,
is this weird to you?
1291
01:20:58,152 --> 01:20:59,352
That this person
has taken on...
1292
01:20:59,399 --> 01:21:00,612
It is. Of course, it's weird.
1293
01:21:05,892 --> 01:21:08,098
David: Almost every legal letter
we'd received from
1294
01:21:08,196 --> 01:21:09,602
from Salta was fake.
1295
01:21:09,859 --> 01:21:12,385
Like so many things
connected to D'Amato,
1296
01:21:12,483 --> 01:21:13,952
they were all just lies,
1297
01:21:14,465 --> 01:21:17,535
lies to support his addiction
to tickling videos.
1298
01:21:20,801 --> 01:21:24,094
I started this journey curious
about a bizarre sport
1299
01:21:24,192 --> 01:21:26,429
called competitive
endurance tickling,
1300
01:21:27,071 --> 01:21:30,108
but I now think this was
never even about tickling.
1301
01:21:32,957 --> 01:21:36,123
This is about power,
control and harassment.
1302
01:21:36,605 --> 01:21:38,619
It's about one person's
twistedness
1303
01:21:38,716 --> 01:21:40,602
and how far that can go.
1304
01:21:40,700 --> 01:21:43,481
One person who's managed to
shelter himself with money
1305
01:21:43,579 --> 01:21:45,785
to keep his obsession going.
1306
01:21:46,362 --> 01:21:48,439
But now it's his life exposed.
1307
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:51,414
For once, it's him on camera.
1308
01:21:56,631 --> 01:21:57,781
Before we leave America,
1309
01:21:57,879 --> 01:22:00,757
there's one last phone call
I want to make.
1310
01:22:00,855 --> 01:22:02,836
It's a name we found
in the documents,
1311
01:22:02,934 --> 01:22:06,355
one of David D'Amato's last
surviving family members.
1312
01:22:08,020 --> 01:22:09,041
Dorothy: Hello?
1313
01:22:09,139 --> 01:22:11,889
- Oh, hi. Is that Dorothy?
- Yes.
1314
01:22:11,986 --> 01:22:13,872
Oh, hi. My name's David Farrier,
1315
01:22:13,970 --> 01:22:16,815
I'm a journalist from
New Zealand. How are you?
1316
01:22:17,328 --> 01:22:18,734
- Okay.
- Yeah, good.
1317
01:22:18,832 --> 01:22:20,270
Hey, sorry, it's probably a bit
of a strange call
1318
01:22:20,368 --> 01:22:21,448
to receive out of the blue,
1319
01:22:21,614 --> 01:22:25,964
but I'm doing a story about,
uh, David D'Amato.
1320
01:22:28,109 --> 01:22:31,274
- Oh, in what way?
- Um...
1321
01:22:32,363 --> 01:22:34,345
He's been... it's the...
1322
01:22:34,506 --> 01:22:36,647
He's sort of back to the
tickling stuff again.
1323
01:22:37,064 --> 01:22:38,278
Oh, he is?
1324
01:22:38,375 --> 01:22:41,476
- Yeah, he is.
- Oh, god!
1325
01:22:42,597 --> 01:22:44,867
Well, I will tell you that,
1326
01:22:44,965 --> 01:22:48,482
um, I have no contact
with him at all.
1327
01:22:49,796 --> 01:22:52,321
I mean, did you think all this
had sort of come to an end?
1328
01:22:52,834 --> 01:22:54,815
I did think, of course,
it came to an end,
1329
01:22:54,913 --> 01:22:58,111
because he served time,
which I'm sure you know.
1330
01:22:58,208 --> 01:22:59,230
Mm.
1331
01:22:59,328 --> 01:23:01,501
But I don't understand, um...
1332
01:23:03,838 --> 01:23:06,651
I don't understand why he
went back to doing this.
1333
01:23:08,252 --> 01:23:11,513
I'm, like, in shock. How long
has he been doing this?
1334
01:23:13,275 --> 01:23:14,904
It's never stopped.
1335
01:23:19,353 --> 01:23:21,847
I think he has a
split personality.
1336
01:23:21,945 --> 01:23:25,205
He's like that fine line
between genius and insanity.
1337
01:23:27,959 --> 01:23:31,572
I don't know if he's gay
or he's asexual,
1338
01:23:31,670 --> 01:23:34,931
but he's never had a girlfriend
that I ever knew of.
1339
01:23:36,500 --> 01:23:38,898
I asked my husband once, um,
1340
01:23:38,995 --> 01:23:41,969
if he would be upset if
he found out he was gay.
1341
01:23:42,067 --> 01:23:46,545
And he said that he would be
upset but he would get over it.
1342
01:23:46,643 --> 01:23:48,208
But he was an only child,
1343
01:23:48,306 --> 01:23:51,023
and, you know, he wanted
grandchildren.
1344
01:23:53,584 --> 01:23:56,813
He had a very,
very strange childhood.
1345
01:23:57,743 --> 01:24:01,836
The kids used to make
fun of him all the time.
1346
01:24:01,997 --> 01:24:04,363
And she used to...
She... his mother.
1347
01:24:04,461 --> 01:24:06,538
He was very close
to his mother.
1348
01:24:07,115 --> 01:24:09,481
And his mother was very
protective of him.
1349
01:24:09,579 --> 01:24:14,601
She never let him ride a bike
or go skiing or do anything
1350
01:24:14,699 --> 01:24:16,872
because she was always afraid
that he would get hurt.
1351
01:24:17,737 --> 01:24:19,014
And from what I understand,
1352
01:24:19,112 --> 01:24:20,774
the kids used to come around
the house,
1353
01:24:20,872 --> 01:24:22,309
and they used to
make fun of him.
1354
01:24:22,407 --> 01:24:25,797
And once they locked him
in a locker in school.
1355
01:24:29,574 --> 01:24:31,108
And, you know,
he was a teacher...
1356
01:24:32,389 --> 01:24:34,147
And they threw him
out of school.
1357
01:24:34,660 --> 01:24:36,674
You know, I was afraid of him,
1358
01:24:37,187 --> 01:24:41,888
because I'm alone and, um...
Yeah, I was afraid of him.
1359
01:24:41,986 --> 01:24:45,119
So, you know,
I'm afraid of him.
112266
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