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Welcome back to a nagging see the future.
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I am the real concern,
I'll be your host for
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this very exciting panel
for our next session.
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Our panel discussion
will be looking at the
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topic of academic careers
outside of academia.
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The COVID pandemic has shown
that the world needs researchers
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of the highest caliber to address
the challenges we all face.
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To discuss this topic, we're going
over to Sydney, Australia, where
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we have a panel of three very
distinguished speakers Warwick Dawson.
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Miss Wong won. Miss Sarah Haigh.
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Warwick Dawson is the director of
Knowledge Exchange and a division of
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research and enterprise at the
University of New South Wales, Sydney,
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is responsible for knowledge,
exchange and IP commercialization,
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with an emphasis on enabling
and facilitating external partnerships
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and engagement within users to
translate the university's excellent
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research outcomes into use for social
progress and economic prosperity.
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Miss Warwick from the University of
New South Wales is Dr Wan Wong,
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head of the university's Twitch
Innovation Precinct and conjoint
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senior lecturer in the School of
Civil and Environmental Engineering,
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Wan as a research fellow in
the Human S.W. Schools of
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Chemical Engineering in Civil
and Environmental Engineering.
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She has completed
her PhD at Moscow
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Center for Membrane
Science and Technology,
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UN S.W., and is a specialist in
the design of membrane models
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and processes for water and
wastewater treatment plants.
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Computational fluid dynamics. Modeling
of membrane separation processes.
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And diagnosis of various
modes of water treatment plants.
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WOW.
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Wine has more than
15 years experience in
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the water industry in
Australia, China and Europe,
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leading or managing
many successful
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research projects with
industry and government.
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In her current role, Wine is
responsible for delivering the University
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of South Wales strategy research
partnerships with Chinese industry
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and has managed more
than 160 projects since 2016.
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Dr Sara Hay is research engagement
director at the Faculty of Engineering
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and Information Technology at
the University of Technology Sydney,
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where she leads the development
of strategies to increase research
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funding from industry, government
and grant funding bodies.
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Prior to this role, she was a
research development manager
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and served several postdoctoral
research fellow positions
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at different engineering schools
at the University of South Wales.
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She holds a PhD in
nanotechnology from
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Nanyang University of
Technology in Singapore.
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Wow.
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Please post any questions you
may have for the panel in the Q&A box
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or responses to your questions
will be available after the conference.
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In the official See the
Future conference report,
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please use the chat facility to
communicate with other conference
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delegates and to contact the see of
future conference management team.
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So at this point, I'm going to
turn it over to Mr Warwick Dawson
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to this really phenomenal
and very important
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panel where we're
talking about clean water.
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Warwick over to you.
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Thank you so much, Daryl
and colleagues and I go,
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It's really great to be
with you this afternoon
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and to share some of our perspectives
on career pathways outside academia.
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So welcome, Yuan. Welcome, Sarah.
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Thank you so much for your time today.
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We'll dove straight into it.
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You maybe if you'd just tell me a
little bit more about your current role.
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Briefly, what your main activities
are and how long you've been doing it?
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Coincidence Warwick?
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So I'm the director of torch
innovation present at the U.S. Embassy.
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My job mainly is to
identify industry partners
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that are interested in
US subdues technologies
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and help US lobby
researchers to collaborate with
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industries, scale up their
ideas and the technologies.
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From laboratory scale to an
industrial or commercial scale that can
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share and serve the community
saw real world problems, et cetera.
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So I have been working on
this role since 2016, so this year
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actually also marks the five
year anniversary for my job.
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That's really great. Congratulations.
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And Sarah, briefly,
what's your current
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role in and how long
have you been doing it?
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Looks like I'm the
director of research
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engagement in Faculty
of India and its UTS,
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and I need the development of
the strategies that generate that.
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Increased volume in
research, funding from
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industry governments
and other funding bodies,
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and in particular, I work with
researchers on a specific funding
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opportunities to support applicants
to submit high quality proposal,
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review draft application and
provide a strategic feedback
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to enhance the
competitiveness of their proposal.
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And I have been in this role for
about two years and eight months.
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Excellent.
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And I've had the pleasure of
working in teams currently with Johan
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and previously with Sarah, so
it's great to be together today.
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And for myself, as Daryl
introduced really the role
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of the team that I lead,
which is knowledge exchange.
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It's really about connecting researchers
and their expertize with external
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organizations so that together we can
translate and transfer that knowledge
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into impact for the benefit
of the broader community.
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And I've been in this role for four years.
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But altogether, working in
leadership roles in university research
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management for 26 years, as
well as four years in industry.
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So let's go back in time
now, starting with you, Sarah.
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Where did you what did you
study at university and where and
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what were your career aspirations
back when you were studying?
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I studied nanotechnology at
Nanyang Technological University
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in Singapore, and like most of
the researchers, I should say,
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I wanted to make a positive
major impact in my field and I chose
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nanotechnology because
it's a multidisciplinary field that,
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in simple words, it is studies how
properties of the smallest particles
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in the world can revolutionize and
have a big impact in many applications.
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Go ahead and Yuan, what did
you study in that way and what
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were your aspirations back in
the day when you were studying?
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So I would say chemical
engineer by training.
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I completed my benchmark
engineering degree in Tianjin University in
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China, which actually ranked number
one in chemical engineering in China.
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Then I completed my masters
by research and the Ph.D. degrees
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both at the School of Chemical
Engineering at the UN. Established
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but also I have a I got
a graduate certificate on
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research, management
and the commercialization,
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which was actually part of
the Australian Commonwealth
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Governments Commercialization
Training Scheme
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that provided to a Ph.D.
student in STEM disciplines.
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So as you saw my starting pathway.
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So I actually wanted to be a research
engineer, a team leader and director.
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Yeah, R&D, department of a world leading
research institutions or leading company.
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And to do this, I need to
have deep understandings
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on both technology front,
but also management skills.
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Yeah, that's great, and that may not
have worked out how you expected,
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but I'm sure that you
used those skills that
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you learned in that
certificate to good effect.
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So for myself, a little bit different.
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I studied commerce and law
at U. A.W. back in the late 80s,
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and I didn't really know where
that degree would lead me,
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but I thought that
probably I'd end up in a
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company or in some
business of some sort.
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I was very fortunate to secure some
part time employment during my study,
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which actually
helped me decide the
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jobs that I didn't want
to do when I finished.
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So that in itself was of some value.
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So back to you, un, once
you finished your study, what
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was your first job and
what did you like about it?
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So I was actually appointed as a
postdoc research fellow by Million
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Dollar Industry, founded the
Australian Research Council project.
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So I was responsible for the day to
day management of the whole project,
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including development of the
technologies that the industry partners want.
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So milestone delivery? They asked.
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We saw industry partners and
they if they're from both Australia and
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China and also mentoring the students
and also for 30 research students.
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So lots of things, that's my first
job after completing my degree.
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And what did you like about it?
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So actually being a researcher,
you always need to find new
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solutions that normally do
not exist in the in the current
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what you need to, you
know, you always need to.
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You know what? And
there's almost no routine work.
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So like every day is a fresh day,
and then there are always challenges,
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and sometimes you just simply do
not know where I can find a solution.
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But once you pass that point and
you do find a solution, you feel like
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you really make a breakthrough
and then you feel proud of yourself.
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So that, like a full feeling is this
is really a good, really rewarding.
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And then you are also well
respected by the communities, so so
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that there's quite a lot of passion
points of being a researcher.
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So you consider yourself to
be a researcher in that role.
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Which is.
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Yeah, so, so so I think
so, so so a lot of the like the
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lost, there was a lot of
different, difficult moments.
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But like we just simply because because,
you know, we're in the 21st century.
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So a lot of things that you
those have been, especially if we
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want to work with for industry to
deliver a solution or technology
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that the industry can use is it's
just difficult because because what
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what has what had been developed
is already there and the the like,
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our problems are all really
difficult ones, but we just need to
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being innovative and and find
the solutions and work really hard.
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Yeah. So lots of problem solving
there and finding ways forward.
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Sarah, how about you?
What was your first job once
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you finished studying and
what did you like about it?
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Like you on? I was also a postdoctoral
research fellow at the NSW, and I
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was working on synthesizing
knowledge fluid for solar thermal collectors.
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And as a researcher, I should say that
you would never get bored and what?
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You would get disappointed a lot.
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It was full of ups and downs.
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You could walk on a project
and run experiments for
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months with absolutely no
progress, as you all mentioned.
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And finally, one day
you make a breakthrough
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and get the result that
you wanted for ages.
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And when that happens, that moment
of joy is worth all that's how it works.
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Excellent.
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Now I presume that you
were both on relatively short
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fixed term contracts in
these roles, is that right?
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Yes. Three years.
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So I got a three year appointment with
I renewed just a year by year after that.
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Right. So a little bit uncertain in
terms of, you know, what the future held.
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Which brings us to the next.
Actually, I should just share with you.
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So my first role after my degree was
on the graduate program of a very big
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Australian company that operates
around the world in the metals industry.
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It's not as BHP.
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And I stayed there for three years.
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And I, you know, as with most first
jobs, everything was new and exciting,
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and I learned a lot
about work and being part
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of a big corporate
business through that time.
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So let's now start thinking
about the transition from
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being a researcher to moving
into research management.
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Maybe, Sarah, if we could start with you.
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What was your thought process?
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Obviously, you've mentioned that
some aspects of being a researcher
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are really exciting and the highs
were high, but the lows were low.
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So what started you on the the
thought process or the pathway
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to thinking about transitioning
to research management?
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I think the main reason was like
during my time postdoc positions, I
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had the opportunity to work in a
very collaborative research groups,
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and I was given the
opportunity to review and
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comment regularly on
work of other researchers.
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And I find it very
enjoyable to be
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exposed to a variety
of interesting projects.
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And later, in my postdoc
position, when I started
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getting involved in research
proposal development,
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I realized actually I was
really good at it and enjoyed
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supporting others to develop
their ideas into academic narratives.
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And I started to think of this
as what I'm going to pursue and
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excited to learn more about the
research support career paths.
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And so for me, it was kind
of like a gradual transition,
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and I realized that
supporting one idea to
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become a project by
ensuring it is funded
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is kind of like as
important as generating
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00:14:01,836 --> 00:14:05,501
the idea and ultimately
delivering the project.
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00:14:05,541 --> 00:14:07,986
That's great. Joanne, how
about you? What was your
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trigger for starting to
think about transitioning?
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So because of my research
experience I had was
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actually dealing with
industry partners very closely.
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And then I had an opportunity to join
our research show in China in 2015.
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Then I realized, although I was
dealing with Australian, with our
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industry partners a lot and also
some of the Chinese industry partners.
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But there are still lots
of things that I really don't
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know about what industries
sees the innovation needs crop,
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which are very different
from the academics view.
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So, so which makes me
think there's a real need
230
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that that the people
really need to fill this gap.
231
00:15:11,856 --> 00:15:15,844
So we need to bring the
the great innovations from the
232
00:15:15,856 --> 00:15:19,856
laboratories of universities
to the to the real world.
233
00:15:20,506 --> 00:15:24,426
So so someone needs to come
back the industry and the and
234
00:15:24,438 --> 00:15:28,506
the academics have to make
sure academics really understand
235
00:15:29,646 --> 00:15:34,150
what they do and how they can help
industry and make an impact on that.
236
00:15:34,190 --> 00:15:35,383
I'm thinking.
237
00:15:35,423 --> 00:15:39,385
And then there and then you can
start to move to a stage to establish this
238
00:15:39,397 --> 00:15:43,423
touching the vision precinct from
2016, and I've changed to my current job.
239
00:15:48,119 --> 00:15:49,267
Excellent.
240
00:15:49,307 --> 00:15:52,170
So, yeah, thanks, Sarah.
241
00:15:52,210 --> 00:15:54,882
So for me, I spent three
years at BHP on the
242
00:15:54,894 --> 00:15:57,638
graduate program and
it's a very big company,
243
00:15:57,678 --> 00:16:00,273
and they like their staff
to move around quite a
244
00:16:00,285 --> 00:16:02,998
lot to experience different
parts of the business.
245
00:16:03,038 --> 00:16:06,290
But when it was my turn to move
around, I just got married to my wife
246
00:16:06,302 --> 00:16:09,427
had just got a job in Sydney and
we just bought a house in Sydney.
247
00:16:09,467 --> 00:16:12,502
So it really wasn't a
good time for me to move,
248
00:16:12,514 --> 00:16:15,497
and I happened to see
a job advertised at A.W.
249
00:16:15,537 --> 00:16:19,582
In fact, which obviously I had some
affinity because I'd studied there
250
00:16:19,594 --> 00:16:23,537
for five years and the job was
about negotiating research contracts.
251
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,764
And I just spent three
years at BHP negotiating
252
00:16:26,776 --> 00:16:29,417
contracts, albeit not
research, but construction.
253
00:16:29,457 --> 00:16:32,503
But nevertheless, there's
obviously some similarities.
254
00:16:32,543 --> 00:16:35,588
So I thought that I would have
the skills and experience for the role.
255
00:16:37,566 --> 00:16:38,781
There was actually two jobs.
256
00:16:38,821 --> 00:16:42,285
One was the contract negotiation,
another one was a more generic
257
00:16:42,297 --> 00:16:45,399
research post award
administrator and I applied for both.
258
00:16:45,439 --> 00:16:49,457
I did get interviewed for the Post
Award, but I did get interviewed
259
00:16:49,469 --> 00:16:53,439
for the contract negotiation role
and I was ultimately successful.
260
00:16:53,721 --> 00:16:56,721
Well, in that
application now when I
261
00:16:56,733 --> 00:17:00,396
was a student in
business and law faculties,
262
00:17:00,436 --> 00:17:04,424
I just wasn't exposed to and
didn't really understand just the
263
00:17:04,436 --> 00:17:08,436
massive, massive research
effort that goes on in a university,
264
00:17:08,627 --> 00:17:11,784
particularly in science,
engineering and medicine,
265
00:17:11,796 --> 00:17:14,655
but also in the non
stem disciplines as well.
266
00:17:14,695 --> 00:17:16,904
So it was a real eye
opener to move it
267
00:17:16,916 --> 00:17:19,535
to a university in a
very different capacity.
268
00:17:19,575 --> 00:17:22,533
Obviously, when you're a
student, you're quite focused on
269
00:17:22,545 --> 00:17:25,770
completing your studies and
getting your degree and moving on.
270
00:17:25,810 --> 00:17:29,405
But to work at a university
and to be exposed to this
271
00:17:29,417 --> 00:17:32,957
incredible, incredible
depth and breadth of activity
272
00:17:32,997 --> 00:17:36,701
undertaken by really, really
smart people who were on,
273
00:17:36,741 --> 00:17:39,411
you know, average
pay on short term
274
00:17:39,423 --> 00:17:43,000
contracts, it was just it
was a real eye opener
275
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,674
and it really literally changed
the course of my entire career.
276
00:17:46,714 --> 00:17:50,154
And it was really fascinating
and wonderful time.
277
00:17:50,194 --> 00:17:54,389
And I also realized that I really
wanted to be part of an organization
278
00:17:54,401 --> 00:17:58,194
that was helping people to
fulfill and achieve their potential.
279
00:18:01,383 --> 00:18:04,425
So I wasn't so concerned
that I wasn't a researcher, but
280
00:18:04,437 --> 00:18:07,490
also able to bring some
skills and value to researchers.
281
00:18:07,530 --> 00:18:11,166
Then working together, we could
really make a difference in the world.
282
00:18:11,206 --> 00:18:14,642
So that was, you know, I
kind of found the sweet spot, if
283
00:18:14,654 --> 00:18:18,340
you like, that really resonated
with my own intrinsic values,
284
00:18:18,380 --> 00:18:25,259
but also was part of a much bigger,
really important activity in society.
285
00:18:25,299 --> 00:18:26,616
Okay, enough about me.
286
00:18:26,656 --> 00:18:29,842
Maybe you can actually, Sarah,
287
00:18:29,882 --> 00:18:33,117
tell us about the research
management roles that you've had in
288
00:18:33,129 --> 00:18:36,480
your career to date since you
transitioned from being a postdoc?
289
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:37,807
Yeah.
290
00:18:37,847 --> 00:18:41,103
Look, I already had a
chat about my control.
291
00:18:41,143 --> 00:18:44,732
Yeah, but prior to that's one I
was a research development
292
00:18:44,744 --> 00:18:47,795
manager in the Social
Strategy Office at the NSW.
293
00:18:47,835 --> 00:18:50,825
Your team, where my
role was mainly focused on
294
00:18:50,837 --> 00:18:54,349
providing strategic advice
to researchers with regards
295
00:18:54,389 --> 00:19:00,060
to available funding opportunities and
developing high quality grant proposal.
296
00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:04,055
Great and Yuan, you've had one
research management role, and
297
00:19:04,067 --> 00:19:08,100
you're still in it and you're
doing a great job, shall I say.
298
00:19:08,721 --> 00:19:10,898
Thank you.
299
00:19:10,938 --> 00:19:13,915
You're not going to float like a postdoc.
300
00:19:13,955 --> 00:19:17,582
Even being like my post
experience is quite like a
301
00:19:17,594 --> 00:19:21,375
research management rather
than doing pure research.
302
00:19:21,415 --> 00:19:23,683
So I was never doing fundamental research.
303
00:19:23,723 --> 00:19:30,856
But now it's just and I have access to a
broader communities and the stakeholders.
304
00:19:32,695 --> 00:19:35,767
Then how about you, I'm
sure you have lots to tell.
305
00:19:35,807 --> 00:19:37,424
So, yeah.
306
00:19:37,464 --> 00:19:40,003
26 years I've had a few
different roles, so I started
307
00:19:40,015 --> 00:19:42,519
negotiating research
contracts, as I just mentioned,
308
00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:45,472
and I did that for
five years, and then I
309
00:19:45,484 --> 00:19:48,826
moved to another
research intensive university,
310
00:19:48,866 --> 00:19:51,426
the other one in Sydney,
and I headed up the team there
311
00:19:51,466 --> 00:19:55,426
that looked after all aspects of
competitive grant funding from government
312
00:19:55,466 --> 00:19:59,414
did that for 10 years had
the amazing opportunity
313
00:19:59,426 --> 00:20:03,466
to build a new team largely
from scratch from 2005
314
00:20:03,709 --> 00:20:06,452
and spent five of the last
five years of my time there.
315
00:20:06,492 --> 00:20:08,341
It was really fantastic.
316
00:20:08,381 --> 00:20:10,853
The university was
performing really well, was
317
00:20:10,865 --> 00:20:13,455
leading the nation in
competitive grant funding.
318
00:20:13,495 --> 00:20:17,366
And in addition, thanks to the
hard work of my team mates,
319
00:20:17,406 --> 00:20:20,399
we were one of ranked
one of the highest performing
320
00:20:20,411 --> 00:20:22,953
professional staff
teams in the university.
321
00:20:22,993 --> 00:20:27,042
Back in 2010, I shifted back to
you, A.W., where I had studied and
322
00:20:27,054 --> 00:20:30,993
worked previously, and I've
had four roles in the last 11 years.
323
00:20:32,034 --> 00:20:35,791
Ironically, when I
returned in 2010, it was to a
324
00:20:35,803 --> 00:20:40,034
somewhat similar role to
the one that I'd had in 1994,
325
00:20:40,281 --> 00:20:43,392
which was creating a team
to support researchers who
326
00:20:43,404 --> 00:20:46,644
were receiving all sorts of
funding other than grants.
327
00:20:46,684 --> 00:20:49,603
So contract research or tenders.
328
00:20:49,643 --> 00:20:53,314
And this is evolves in various
forms over the last 11 years,
329
00:20:53,354 --> 00:20:56,736
I've had the opportunities
twice more to create
330
00:20:56,748 --> 00:21:00,496
teams from scratch, which
has been hugely rewarding.
331
00:21:00,536 --> 00:21:03,872
And as I mentioned, currently
focusing on the tech transfer,
332
00:21:03,884 --> 00:21:06,793
translation and generating
impact from our research.
333
00:21:08,419 --> 00:21:11,584
Okay, Sara, back to you. What do
you enjoy about research management?
334
00:21:13,258 --> 00:21:17,216
Well, first of all, I should
say, in my opinion, academics
335
00:21:17,228 --> 00:21:20,592
are one of the most
hardworking people on planet.
336
00:21:20,632 --> 00:21:24,538
And that's the reason, to be honest,
I'm not helping them to make their
337
00:21:24,550 --> 00:21:28,632
dream come true by enabling them
to turn their ideas into actual projects.
338
00:21:29,343 --> 00:21:33,139
And as a research engagement
manager, I get to do this by
339
00:21:33,151 --> 00:21:36,827
helping researchers identify
the right funding schemes,
340
00:21:36,867 --> 00:21:40,316
right industry partners and
getting their project funded,
341
00:21:40,328 --> 00:21:43,789
which is critical to make
the intended scientific impact.
342
00:21:43,829 --> 00:21:47,187
I find it very enjoyable
and satisfying to enable
343
00:21:47,199 --> 00:21:50,299
adoption of research
findings by the industry
344
00:21:50,339 --> 00:21:54,198
as it ensures immediate impact
of the research on the society.
345
00:21:55,749 --> 00:21:58,053
That's great, U.N., How about you?
346
00:21:58,093 --> 00:22:00,166
Yeah, I agree with Sarah to some.
347
00:22:00,206 --> 00:22:04,828
So I think most people don't know
how hard academics need to work now,
348
00:22:04,868 --> 00:22:08,826
how many hours they walk, and
they and like many, a few of them
349
00:22:08,866 --> 00:22:11,749
have real holidays
throughout the years and years.
350
00:22:11,789 --> 00:22:14,307
So, so but I do see.
351
00:22:14,347 --> 00:22:21,371
So actually, I don't think
publishing papers are difficult.
352
00:22:21,411 --> 00:22:24,924
What's really difficult
it is how you can
353
00:22:24,936 --> 00:22:29,217
convince a mystery partner
to use your technology.
354
00:22:29,257 --> 00:22:33,213
Then your innovation technologies
could have could be applied
355
00:22:33,225 --> 00:22:37,257
to the real world and help
communities and have a real impact.
356
00:22:38,825 --> 00:22:42,552
Otherwise, you end up just
having your name on papers.
357
00:22:42,592 --> 00:22:46,040
I don't think that's
really rewarding, but a
358
00:22:46,052 --> 00:22:49,359
lot of researchers,
although they want to,
359
00:22:49,399 --> 00:22:55,631
but they don't know how to actually access
and how to communicate with industries.
360
00:22:55,671 --> 00:23:01,105
So that's that's something I'm really
excited about the research management role
361
00:23:01,145 --> 00:23:06,758
and opportunities to work with broader
stakeholders from different areas.
362
00:23:06,798 --> 00:23:12,806
So research background, government
agencies, investors or industry.
363
00:23:12,846 --> 00:23:16,047
So, so across fault.
364
00:23:16,087 --> 00:23:20,849
And also help researchers
to understand how to transmit.
365
00:23:20,889 --> 00:23:23,621
How to transform their
ideas and the innovations
366
00:23:23,633 --> 00:23:26,544
from lab scales to commercial
and commercial scale.
367
00:23:26,584 --> 00:23:30,697
And also, another thing is
different from being just a researcher
368
00:23:30,709 --> 00:23:34,584
that I only know one area I
can actually access technologies.
369
00:23:36,102 --> 00:23:40,230
Also, my own expertize, I'm
the facilitator communications
370
00:23:40,242 --> 00:23:44,102
and discussions and
collaborations across disciplines.
371
00:23:46,306 --> 00:23:49,092
So between researchers
and the and the
372
00:23:49,104 --> 00:23:52,476
from different industries,
schools, faculties.
373
00:23:52,516 --> 00:23:55,230
So that's really exciting.
374
00:23:55,270 --> 00:23:56,316
Yeah, I fully agree.
375
00:23:56,356 --> 00:24:02,218
It's a really critical role
enabling and facilitating.
376
00:24:02,258 --> 00:24:05,690
So I often talk about the
complementary expertize that we bring.
377
00:24:05,730 --> 00:24:09,635
Obviously, the researchers are the
subject matter experts, and they're
378
00:24:09,647 --> 00:24:13,730
the ones that have the critical
knowledge in developing new technologies,
379
00:24:14,689 --> 00:24:19,039
new disclosures and
new ways of doing things.
380
00:24:19,079 --> 00:24:22,567
But it's working hand
in hand with people like
381
00:24:22,579 --> 00:24:26,004
ourselves who bring
that commercial business,
382
00:24:26,044 --> 00:24:29,068
you know, know-how and
expertize that working together,
383
00:24:29,108 --> 00:24:31,293
we can be so powerful
and it can be so fulfilling
384
00:24:31,305 --> 00:24:33,590
and rewarding, bringing
these technologies to life.
385
00:24:33,630 --> 00:24:37,592
The other thing I would say and
I've kind of alluded to it already is just
386
00:24:37,604 --> 00:24:41,630
being part of high energy, high
performing teams has been really rewarding.
387
00:24:41,670 --> 00:24:43,540
You often find that in
research management
388
00:24:43,552 --> 00:24:45,785
teams in universities
because they're very driven.
389
00:24:45,825 --> 00:24:49,261
Often they're researchers
like the two of you who bring
390
00:24:49,273 --> 00:24:52,597
that's that drive and
enthusiasm, energy and passion.
391
00:24:52,637 --> 00:24:53,677
So that's been really fun.
392
00:24:53,715 --> 00:24:57,032
Just, you know, I think of my
current team and you've just got
393
00:24:57,044 --> 00:25:00,215
lots of different backgrounds
and lots of different skills.
394
00:25:00,255 --> 00:25:03,763
It's really diverse
and it really makes for
395
00:25:03,775 --> 00:25:08,255
complementarity in high
performance and something else.
396
00:25:08,729 --> 00:25:10,684
Johan, that you mentioned is the variety.
397
00:25:10,724 --> 00:25:12,559
So every day literally is a new adventure.
398
00:25:12,599 --> 00:25:15,186
You don't know
what's going to land in
399
00:25:15,198 --> 00:25:18,131
your inbox or on a
desk any particular day.
400
00:25:18,171 --> 00:25:21,741
And so working in a central
research management office in a large
401
00:25:21,753 --> 00:25:25,498
research intensive university is
really hard to beat, in my opinion.
402
00:25:25,538 --> 00:25:28,453
Okay, a couple more questions for you.
403
00:25:28,493 --> 00:25:32,299
And what do you think are
the benefits of previously
404
00:25:32,311 --> 00:25:36,128
being a researcher in your
research management role?
405
00:25:37,895 --> 00:25:41,741
So I think having a research
background make me understand research
406
00:25:41,753 --> 00:25:45,895
like what researchers think better
so really and understand their needs.
407
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,703
And though why it's difficult,
why it might be difficult with
408
00:25:55,715 --> 00:25:59,840
them to work with industry and
where their frustration came from.
409
00:26:01,052 --> 00:26:08,115
And also, you maybe be just
surprised to see real researchers.
410
00:26:08,155 --> 00:26:11,967
They really just think about technology.
411
00:26:12,007 --> 00:26:15,540
So how I bring a tech
and technical solution
412
00:26:15,552 --> 00:26:19,728
rather than whether it is
a cost effective solution.
413
00:26:19,768 --> 00:26:23,657
But industry is all about cost benefit.
414
00:26:23,697 --> 00:26:26,361
So, so it's really
different. You just need to.
415
00:26:26,401 --> 00:26:30,023
So lots of training that we
can provide to researchers
416
00:26:30,035 --> 00:26:33,868
which one I was a researcher
I didn't think about either.
417
00:26:33,908 --> 00:26:39,006
But now, because I work on my
new research management role.
418
00:26:39,046 --> 00:26:44,777
So, so this is something like because
I was doing what researchers think,
419
00:26:44,817 --> 00:26:47,390
and now I have no
communications with the
420
00:26:47,402 --> 00:26:50,542
industry, so how I can
bring them together better.
421
00:26:50,582 --> 00:26:51,660
Yeah.
422
00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:53,905
I and I'm often reminded
of a conversation
423
00:26:53,917 --> 00:26:56,238
I had with an industry
person who said that,
424
00:26:56,278 --> 00:26:59,480
you know, at 80 per cent solution
today is much more valuable
425
00:26:59,492 --> 00:27:02,862
to them than 100 percent solution
in a month or six months time.
426
00:27:02,902 --> 00:27:06,031
And so that's one of the messages
that we need to keep reinforcing.
427
00:27:06,071 --> 00:27:07,307
Sarah, how about you?
428
00:27:07,347 --> 00:27:10,089
What are the benefits of
previously being a researcher?
429
00:27:10,129 --> 00:27:12,744
Well, I also think there
are many benefits.
430
00:27:12,784 --> 00:27:14,704
For example, as a researcher,
431
00:27:14,744 --> 00:27:17,155
I was really familiar
with lifecycle of a
432
00:27:17,167 --> 00:27:19,821
research project from
ideation to development
433
00:27:19,861 --> 00:27:23,206
and how a research proposal
is developed by academics.
434
00:27:23,246 --> 00:27:26,348
And I familiar with how
academics think like as
435
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:29,473
you all mentioned and
what they value the most.
436
00:27:29,513 --> 00:27:32,086
And I take all of these
are really helpful in
437
00:27:32,098 --> 00:27:34,345
a successful research
management career
438
00:27:34,385 --> 00:27:37,053
because you understand
the research as you know
439
00:27:37,065 --> 00:27:39,800
what they exactly want
and how we can help them.
440
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,161
That's great.
441
00:27:41,201 --> 00:27:43,407
OK, second last question.
442
00:27:43,447 --> 00:27:47,404
Are there any skills that you
didn't have when you transitioned
443
00:27:47,416 --> 00:27:51,447
to research management that
you've realized now that you needed?
444
00:27:54,406 --> 00:28:01,640
Um, so I think a lot of things
like, for example, the how to.
445
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,302
So, so like the whole
app management
446
00:28:04,314 --> 00:28:07,588
and the commercialization
of business models,
447
00:28:07,628 --> 00:28:11,490
how we find a it is a
flexible business model
448
00:28:11,502 --> 00:28:15,628
that work for researchers
but also for industry.
449
00:28:18,913 --> 00:28:22,808
And I think UCB is
doing really well on that
450
00:28:22,848 --> 00:28:30,848
and also because I'm a I came
from a engineering background
451
00:28:32,471 --> 00:28:39,118
and as a female and also a not
an English speaking countries.
452
00:28:39,158 --> 00:28:45,792
So a lot of the communication skills
that I and it's really important for me,
453
00:28:45,832 --> 00:28:48,811
not just so
especially talking in a
454
00:28:48,823 --> 00:28:52,645
language that not that
I'm not familiar with.
455
00:28:52,685 --> 00:28:55,139
So not from my own technical background.
456
00:28:56,767 --> 00:28:59,932
And also a team management
team management skills.
457
00:28:59,972 --> 00:29:03,269
So I think on that point, the
research management like
458
00:29:03,281 --> 00:29:07,191
researcher managers actually
sort of a luckier than researchers.
459
00:29:07,231 --> 00:29:12,264
So as you said, like we have a
team like high performing team
460
00:29:12,304 --> 00:29:16,256
that we can work with almost
support each other and we
461
00:29:16,268 --> 00:29:20,304
have great mentors and team
members, so everyone helps.
462
00:29:21,966 --> 00:29:26,014
But researchers, I think they
work on more individual basis.
463
00:29:26,054 --> 00:29:30,007
And then and a lot of it,
like they have students, good
464
00:29:30,019 --> 00:29:34,054
students and the less less
strong, less strong students.
465
00:29:35,105 --> 00:29:38,636
So but they don't just need
to work with all of them to
466
00:29:38,648 --> 00:29:42,191
bring a solution to deliver
their research innovations.
467
00:29:42,231 --> 00:29:45,415
And I think how so to
understand people and to
468
00:29:45,427 --> 00:29:49,032
communicate with people
are really important skills.
469
00:29:49,072 --> 00:29:51,912
Yeah. Fully agree with that one.
How about you, sir? What do you think?
470
00:29:53,553 --> 00:29:57,602
So I do believe that I was very
lucky to start my research support
471
00:29:57,614 --> 00:30:01,553
career with some of the best
mentors in Australia like yourself.
472
00:30:01,876 --> 00:30:04,756
And having access to these
mentors helped me a lot.
473
00:30:04,796 --> 00:30:08,512
But definitely, yes, there are a lot of
the skills that I needed to strengthen.
474
00:30:08,552 --> 00:30:12,040
For example, as a recession
division manager, I needed to be a
475
00:30:12,052 --> 00:30:15,774
good facilitator and understand
the language of industry partners.
476
00:30:15,814 --> 00:30:17,462
Also, I needed to strengthen my
477
00:30:17,474 --> 00:30:20,152
negotiation skills to be
able to close the deal.
478
00:30:20,192 --> 00:30:24,488
I know most of the ladies are really
within bargaining doing shopping,
479
00:30:24,528 --> 00:30:28,457
but it's really important you
actually stress and your negotiating
480
00:30:28,469 --> 00:30:32,528
skill as well to close the deal
and also be apart from all of these.
481
00:30:32,819 --> 00:30:36,462
You need to also have an
in-depth understanding of many
482
00:30:36,474 --> 00:30:40,520
ideas that contribute to being
a successful research manager,
483
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,844
including basic contract management,
IP and finance to some extent.
484
00:30:47,681 --> 00:30:51,415
So for me, I'll talk a bit
more about the relationship
485
00:30:51,427 --> 00:30:54,696
skills because the
longer I work in leadership,
486
00:30:54,736 --> 00:30:56,951
the more I realized
that these are critical.
487
00:30:56,991 --> 00:30:59,399
So we've started to call
them human skills because
488
00:30:59,411 --> 00:31:02,115
they're the skills that humans
need in order to succeed.
489
00:31:02,155 --> 00:31:04,479
That includes listening.
490
00:31:04,519 --> 00:31:07,905
Relationship management, project
management, those sorts of things.
491
00:31:07,945 --> 00:31:10,897
For me, as a leader,
there's a strategic element.
492
00:31:10,937 --> 00:31:14,234
So I'm not trying to always think
about what's coming next, what's over
493
00:31:14,246 --> 00:31:17,693
the horizon that I need to be thinking
out, planning for or preparing for.
494
00:31:17,733 --> 00:31:20,292
And the last one that's
really been important
495
00:31:20,304 --> 00:31:23,042
these last couple of
crazy years is flexibility.
496
00:31:23,082 --> 00:31:25,725
So I'm fortunate
to have a team of
497
00:31:25,737 --> 00:31:29,453
people that I can
completely trust at all times.
498
00:31:29,493 --> 00:31:33,062
And so we've been able to allow
people the freedom to decide when
499
00:31:33,074 --> 00:31:36,600
and where they work, and we're
all accountable for the outcomes.
500
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,598
So once you've got that
sort of high trust arrangement,
501
00:31:40,610 --> 00:31:43,729
it makes flexibility a
lot more manageable.
502
00:31:43,769 --> 00:31:45,974
Now the last question,
Sara, we'll start with you.
503
00:31:46,014 --> 00:31:48,845
What's one or two pieces
of advice that you might want
504
00:31:48,857 --> 00:31:51,649
to give to people that are
considering the transition
505
00:31:51,689 --> 00:31:55,353
from being a researcher
to a research manager?
506
00:31:55,393 --> 00:31:59,202
And what advice is that if you
enjoy being part of a many great
507
00:31:59,214 --> 00:32:03,393
initiatives, if you enjoy working
with a broad range of stakeholders,
508
00:32:04,181 --> 00:32:06,629
including academics and industry partners?
509
00:32:06,669 --> 00:32:10,688
And if you really care about
science and scientific contribution
510
00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:14,669
but don't enjoy long term focus
on a particular research topic,
511
00:32:15,215 --> 00:32:17,242
I think you would
definitely enjoy
512
00:32:17,254 --> 00:32:19,992
transitioning into a
research management role.
513
00:32:20,032 --> 00:32:22,776
I know it might look at the transition,
514
00:32:22,816 --> 00:32:26,138
but I can assure you that this
is only because we have been
515
00:32:26,150 --> 00:32:29,318
trained to think of academic
job as the main career path
516
00:32:29,358 --> 00:32:34,112
the university sector for PSG
graduates, which is not true.
517
00:32:34,152 --> 00:32:35,736
It's great.
518
00:32:35,776 --> 00:32:43,776
So I think it's really important to assess
yourself what you are really good at.
519
00:32:45,575 --> 00:32:49,876
So because research and the
management are actually quite different,
520
00:32:49,888 --> 00:32:53,575
and I think there's a one
senior manager from us, Gabriel,
521
00:32:54,413 --> 00:32:57,020
who used to say
there are a lot of
522
00:32:57,032 --> 00:33:00,550
academics and the
researchers at universities,
523
00:33:00,590 --> 00:33:04,079
but very few of them can
be real managers because
524
00:33:04,091 --> 00:33:07,381
they really just require
different skill sets.
525
00:33:07,421 --> 00:33:10,090
So it is not just what you want to do,
526
00:33:10,130 --> 00:33:17,281
but also like what what
your character characters are
527
00:33:17,321 --> 00:33:22,600
and the what you are structured
to really do a good self evaluation.
528
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:23,980
I think it's important.
529
00:33:26,428 --> 00:33:30,034
For me, I would say keep
all your options open because
530
00:33:30,046 --> 00:33:33,401
you just don't know where
a path is going to lead.
531
00:33:33,441 --> 00:33:36,419
So for example, my role
when I first moved into
532
00:33:36,431 --> 00:33:39,358
research management
was negotiating contracts,
533
00:33:39,398 --> 00:33:42,031
however, sitting all
around me literally with
534
00:33:42,043 --> 00:33:44,803
people that were looking
at the grants process.
535
00:33:44,843 --> 00:33:46,630
And so I was curious.
536
00:33:46,670 --> 00:33:50,537
I wondered what on earth they were
doing all hours of the day and night.
537
00:33:50,577 --> 00:33:52,722
So I took an interest.
I, you know, got to
538
00:33:52,734 --> 00:33:54,991
know what they were
doing. I let you skills.
539
00:33:55,031 --> 00:33:57,334
I helped out with major deadlines.
540
00:33:57,374 --> 00:33:58,852
And if I hadn't done that, I would.
541
00:33:58,892 --> 00:34:01,608
There's no way I would have
got my next role at the University
542
00:34:01,620 --> 00:34:04,392
of Sydney, which was quite a
significant promotion at the time.
543
00:34:04,432 --> 00:34:07,129
So you just never know
where different parts
544
00:34:07,141 --> 00:34:10,152
are going to lead, so
keep all your options open.
545
00:34:10,192 --> 00:34:13,381
And finally, ask lots of
questions. Never guess.
546
00:34:13,421 --> 00:34:17,519
And if you're a supervisor or a
leader listening to this session, strongly
547
00:34:17,531 --> 00:34:21,421
encourage your team members to
always ask lots of questions no matter,
548
00:34:22,667 --> 00:34:25,751
you know, give them the
permission to do that without
549
00:34:25,763 --> 00:34:28,458
feeling that it's in any
way a negative thing,
550
00:34:28,498 --> 00:34:30,840
because that will
build the trust and the
551
00:34:30,852 --> 00:34:33,654
rapport that you need
to deliver a great service.
552
00:34:33,694 --> 00:34:36,111
So thank you very much, Joanne and Sara.
553
00:34:36,151 --> 00:34:39,924
It's great to have shared
the last 35 minutes with you.
554
00:34:39,964 --> 00:34:43,259
Thanks for the contributions
that you've made to research
555
00:34:43,271 --> 00:34:46,350
management and look forward
to seeing you again soon.
556
00:34:46,390 --> 00:34:47,879
Back to you, Darryl.
557
00:34:49,886 --> 00:34:53,981
On behalf of In, I don't see the
future team, we want to thank
558
00:34:53,993 --> 00:34:57,774
you Warrick, Yuan and Sarah
for the most excellent panel.
559
00:34:57,814 --> 00:35:02,216
Please be sure to come back for
the next session of See the Future.
560
00:35:02,256 --> 00:35:06,214
Also, be sure to post your questions
in the Q&A box and note that
561
00:35:06,226 --> 00:35:10,256
the responses will be published
in the official conference report.
562
00:35:10,657 --> 00:35:14,450
Also, please be sure to visit
our sponsors and exhibitors
563
00:35:14,462 --> 00:35:17,743
who have made this list.
See the future possible.
564
00:35:17,783 --> 00:35:20,430
Also, I just want to
thank you to welcome to
565
00:35:20,442 --> 00:35:23,161
your host for this
segment of See the Future.
566
00:35:23,201 --> 00:35:27,062
And we want to thank you for
attending the See the Future Conference.53210
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