Original subtitles

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Today's episode features a man,

a myth, a legend,

a rebel, a PK.

That's slang for "preacher's kid."

I'm talking about actor, writer, director, producer,

-uh... -NICK CANNON: Rapper!

I wasn't gonna put it in there, but if you want me to, rapper.

-Nick Cannon, ladies and gentlemen. -Yeah!

-How are you, sir? -Man, I don't want to hear that fake shit, man.

I don't... We ain't got time for all of that, man.

-What do you mean, man? -Come on, man.

Brother, welcome to my... This is my area, man.

-Th-This is you? -Yeah, this my area.

This what you... It's nice.

-You in my wine cellar, bro. -This is nice.

-It's suede and wood and... -You like that?

-Rich. -Nick, I'm-a drink some wine. Are you gonna have some wine?

You know I don't drink, man. But I...

Whatever you tell me to do, man. I'll be...

If you don't drink, I don't want you here to lose your mind

-on my account. -I mean, I was like... Whatever, man.

-I'm-I'm following you. -I have a... I have a sommelier.

What the f... What is that?

-Huh? -Can we talk like we normally talk?

After you address the fact that I have a sommelier.

(laughs): What is a...? That's-- 'cause I was gonna say,

-what, uh, is a somm...? -You want to know what it is, right?

-No. -Uh, D-DLynn?

-Yeah, hey, brother. How you doing, man? -I don't... I mean,

-I got some of the... -I got a sommelier. -Mr. Hart. Mr. Cannon.

-NICK: What does that mean? -Nick, take a glass of wine.

-I will! I... -KEVIN: Give Nick a glass of wine.

I don't drink, though. This is...

-What is this today? -This is bad. (chuckles)

2017 North Coast Syrah.

(whoops) Not a North Coast Syrah!

Are you just really just trying to show me how rich you are?

-No. -Is that what this is about? (laughing)

-Like, is this what we doing? -No.

-H-How much is that bottle of wine? -None of your business, Nick.

But you can't get it in the States.

-I bet. Sure. Of course. -May I?

Give him a... Give him a little bit. It's wine.

-You got to let me know how much it cost. -KEVIN: Right there.

-That's good. That's good. -That's good.

-It's grapes. It's wine, man. -DLYNN: Enjoy.

-I'm not an adult like that, man. -KEVIN: Thank you, man.

-I don't know what this stuff tastes like. -KEVIN: Brother,

-it's wine. -You ain't got no Capri Suns or...?

-No, I ain't got no Capri Suns, man. -All right.

It's wine. Some of the best conversations in life

-happen over a glass of wine. -I'm not at that level yet.

-My mama still drink box wine. -What?

-Okay, well, that's... -(laughs) That's-that's my level of wine.

That just mean that you living where you're supposed to live.

-Cheers, man. To a great conversation. -Yeah. Yeah.

-Great dialogue. That's... -Real conversation.

No, Nick. Fake.

I mean, 'cause I don't know, like, how far...

-Like, we talk every day. -We talking.

We're gonna talk how we talk. We're just giving people

-a chance to see it, that's all. -All right.

-We gonna talk like we really talk? -Hmm?

-Or we gonna... Okay. -Deadass.

How we... How we really talk.

That's what makes this show good, man.

It's the, uh, it's the versions...

A'ight, that's what the... That's what the... Okay.

-That's your first. That's how... -(laughing)

I want to let... I want to let you guys know:

he's not playing when he says he doesn't drink.

-Like, that's-that's really... -Why do y'all drink this shit?

(both laugh)

-Force of habit. -Uh, here's where I want to start, man.

I want to start on, of course, our beginning. Right?

-Man. Yeah. -I think before we get into, uh,

the depth behind the conversation,

I want people to understand how far we go back, man.

And you're-you're talking about, of course,

the early stages of stand-up comedy...

-Yeah. -...uh, for both of us.

But, more importantly, I'm gonna go back

to the beginning of "Wild 'N Out."

You know, when you and I got a chance

-to really mend that friendship that was already there. -Facts.

Man, I will tell you. I mean, I don't even know

if you remember this. I remember it was some random-ass party.

Uh, I had heard about you for a long time, and I...

And, "There's this cat on the East Coast. Funny dude."

Like, and he was coming out,

and, you know how it is, it was the days of the holding deals.

-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. -You know what I mean? And if that was...

When you were a comedian, that was...

-It was a big deal. -You got a holding deal, you made it.

-The biggest deal ever. Mm-hmm. -That's when... Yeah. Uh...

And someone at a network was like,

"Yeah, this guy, Kevin Hart, he's really funny."

And then we met at a party, and you was, like...

Even back then, you was, like, the humblest, coolest dude.

And I'm like, man, I've been... You know, we on the ground.

We still... This stand-up days,

and, like, I don't even think...

I'm early Nickelodeon stuff.

I don't even know if I was on Nickelodeon yet.

And you're like, "Man, we the youngest guys out here doing it.

We got an opportunity. We should link up."

I'm like, "Yeah, whatever."

And literally, I learned so much from you

in the stand-up game 'cause you took it...

Like, from that night, we would pull up,

and whether we was going to the Comedy Union,

-to all those different spots... -Mm-hmm.

And I would just watch you work, man.

And you had... You got, like...

There's an East Coast comedy approach,

and then there's a West Coast comedy approach.

East Coast comedy approach, you go up

-five, six times a night. -It's a grind.

-It's seven... It's seven days a week. -Yeah.

Out here, it's kind of... You know, it's more like,

oh, you get up somewhere. Somebody else

might have a room on Wednesday night.

Somebody got a room on Thursday night.

It's real casual. But you're grinding.

The way I watched you build jokes and work, man.

I was like, "Man, I got to...

If I want to be funny, I got to be like that dude."

I'll tell you this before we get into "Wild 'N Out,"

before we get into you, the Bay Area competition,

you know, the-the real arrival of Nick Cannon,

uh, and that-that young... that young energy

that was attached to stardom quickly.

-Yeah. -I'm-a tell you, dude, there was a...

There was a high... a high amount of envy

-that I had for you. -(chuckles) I... It's still there.

-Don't you tell 'em different. -Yeah, I can't. I'm not...

-I'm not gonna say it's gone. -You still hate me.

-I did say it as if it's gone. Like, I did... -(laughing)

I did say it as if it's no more.

No, there was a high amount of envy

early on in our careers

because I remember you were clicking so fast.

-Right, right. -Like, it was...

-You were putting the beats together so quick. -Yeah.

And I-I will never forget the "Drumline" opportunity

-and the movie and when you were casted in it. -Yeah.

-Yeah. -KEVIN: Where-where every young...

This is every young, Black actor

-in Hollywood at the time. -Everybody.

-Rappers, too. Everybody. -I mean, everybody.

-This was... This was the role of a lifetime for so many. -Yeah.

And I remember when you got the part

-and there was no animosity. There was no... -Yeah.

There was no ill will like,

"Damn, I can't believe I didn't get it.

-Damn, it went to Nick Cannon. Ugh!" -Yeah. (laughs)

Like, there was... It was like, "That's a good dude, man."

-Yeah. Nah. -"That's a good dude."

-That's real. -"He deserved it."

And you-you not only rocked that opportunity

but, as others came,

you know, we developed a great energy.

-Yeah. -And-and it's always been that-that yin and yang.

It's interesting, too, 'cause, I mean,

when you talk about that... 'Cause clearly,

I'm not a competitive person by any means,

but I also understand what you're talking about

out here when you're like, "I want to get that spot,

-that grind." -Mm-hmm.

And that's why, even when we were younger,

like, I never saw anything as, like...

Like, we joke around with, like, the hate and all,

but I've always been nothing but proud of you

because, one, it's enough for us all to get out-out of here.

But more than anything, like, I think--

we talked about this back in the day--

when we would watch cats that we, you know, looked up to,

whether it's the Eddies or the Keenens and stuff,

we-we saw a cool little blueprint like,

-"Oh, Kev does this shit amazing. Nick does..." -Mm-hmm.

You know what I mean? And, so, it was always because

we were clicking on so many different levels

that all I could do is learn from you.

All I could do is want to move that way.

So even when it come... came to, like, auditioning and even...

One, I never booked shit from auditions.

I was always like, "Yo, I got to make my own."

Like, just that stand-up hustle was like,

"I got to write my own shit. I got to produce my own shit."

So when shit would come across

where people actually wanted to give it to me,

I was, like...

-Blown away. -Yeah. So...

-You're taken aback by it. -Yeah, but even...

And that's when we see each other out here,

and we all on the same grind.

We all on the same hustle.

I think that's what people within the game

appreciate and understand.

And I think people... There's a... I don't know

if it's our generation or different generations.

There's always, like, a-a energy of, like,

comedians were super competitive or did...

Like, "Oh, I don't want that person to get that.

Oh, I should've got it. I'm funnier than..."

-I don't ever feel that. -It's crabs in a barrel.

Yeah. I don't feel like we have that, though.

-No. We never... -I seen the older cats have that.

And then even people who are not really intrinsic into it

who maybe want to be a part of it.

But cats who are out here really getting it?

They know that grind of writing jokes, telling...

It's 3:00, 4:00 in the morning, trying to figure out

what your set is gonna be for tomorrow, like...

Well, you're-you're experiencing it at a different level

because you act now as a...

as a springboard to the higher levels of success.

Whether you realize it or not,

-the-the gateway of Nick Cannon... -Right.

I'm talking about "Wild 'N Out."

-I'm talking about what that now is, right? -Right. I hear you. Yeah.

Right? Like, you know, you're-you're a portal.

-You-You go through this thing, through this machine. -Right.

And the now want is the next level of success,

because there have been people that have used that platform

-and that it's been monumental for. -Yeah, man.

I... And it's funny, like,

'cause I don't like to think of it like that,

'cause you remember when we was there, when we started it.

I mean, you was in the, uh...

-You did me the favor. -In the beginning.

-In the beginning stages. -(laughs) Yeah.

When we were... When... First of all,

we used to just be at places like the Comedy Union

and different clubs where they in the Valley and stuff.

And we'd just be talking shit,

-being silly like we-we always are. -Mm-hmm.

And I remember at some point, it was like,

"Yo, Nick, you on now. Won't you put some of us on?"

I was like, "A'ight, well..." Rented out the Comedy Union,

-got some cameras together... -Don't speed past that,

'cause that's a... that's a real important fact, man,

-that-that most don't know. -Good.

It was... It was a real... It was a real ask

-of, "Yo, man, you out getting it." -Yeah.

-(laughs) Right. -"You out here getting it."

-Like, you got the real pressure. -Right, right.

-I stayed away from the pressure. -(laughs) Right.

I-I didn't... Y-You... Nobody saw me.

I would... I would come in, and I'm there for a minute,

-and I'm out. -Yeah.

You got the pressure.

I don't even want to call it pressure.

-Let's just call it an ask. -"We saw you

-from here as a kid with us, and now you on." -And-and...

-"And we know you." -Right.

-"And you eating." -Yeah.

"I don't like you eating, man. Come on, Nick."

-W-Well, we... Yeah. -"Let us... Let us eat, too."

-Yeah. -And you didn't just hear that and walk away from that.

You-you responded. You was like, "All right. All right, cool."

So, this-this "Wild 'N Out" thing

-was then birthed, right? -Yeah. Right.

It was then birthed. Who-who was a part of the creative

in the beginning stages of "Wild 'N Out"?

NICK: Man, I mean, same guys we still rock with

to this... to this day.

Uh, Nile Evans, Chris Spencer.

Uh... I remember just... Even...

We just got a room of all of us together.

Uh, i-it was like, "Yo, we just gonna do the stuff that we do."

We all would do little stupid improv games.

We'd all be rapping, and so I was like, "How does..."

And-and inspired by everything

from, you know, "Uptown Comedy Club"

-that we would see. -Mm-hmm.

Uh, "Apollo Comedy Hour,"

"ComicView," "Def Jam," all of those things.

And all the same type of people had worked on all of that stuff,

so we were like, "Yo, let's just do what we do

-on some improv stuff but mix some hip-hop in it." -Mm-hmm.

And at the time, I just knew I wanted to mix

hip-hop and comedy and stand-up together

and put my friends on.

KEVIN: Remember the beginning stages of "Wild 'N Out."

All I remember is there...

We didn't have, like, places to go and chill,

-so we were all in the back of the Union. -Yeah.

-You had, like, water coolers. -Yeah.

-There were some drinks. No... -Little patio area.

It was nothing crazy, but everybody was there

for the support, for the love.

Everybody came out that night, like, and it was...

I-I had no idea what it would be.

I mean, obviously, I had the relationships

with, like, MTV,

and I-I think that was right when "Drumline" was popping.

And even my team and people were like,

"Why are you doing stuff on television?

-You're a movie star now." -Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And, "You know, you do..." And I was like, "Look,

this is... this is my roots. This is what I come from."

Stand-up and, you know, improv, I'm-a always want to do this.

And it was just a passion project at the time

to help put my friends on, and...

-It turned into what it turned into. -Yeah.

-Yeah. -It became the thing that MTV pushed the most.

And then from there, you know, life-life just changed.

We got... We started to get older,

and it was like, "Man, how long we gonna do this?"

And, you know, it's like, "Ooh, we did ten episodes.

"Oh, we did 25. Oh, we're doing...

We did 50 episodes!"

And then from that point, it's like,

"Okay, we've created this brand."

And even when you look at it today, man,

I think it's the longest-running Black comedy,

-urban comedy in television history... -Absolutely.

-Absolutely. -...just based off of how long we've been rocking.

-So... Yeah, yeah. -Quietly, though.

Quietly. Like, I don't... I don't think people understand

the true success of the show.

They don't understand the true trajectory

that that show went on and that it put you on

just from a producing standpoint, right?

And that was the thing, too. Because of that fact

that I rented out the comedy club...

-By yourself. -...rented out my own cameras,

-used my own money, then went to them... -By yourself.

...that allowed, you know, my team

to get the best deal possible

and have ownership in this brand to, you know...

Even when... Later times, however...

15 years later, I was able to have so much leverage

when actually doing business dealings.

And, you know, as we all know, content is king

-and ownership and IP. -Mm-hmm.

So I-I... I learned that at an early age by accident

because I just...

Nobody understood what I was trying to do,

and I was never scared to put my own money up,

especially for my team or for my friends.

So, it just... It was a benefit.

People looked up. They looked up like,

-"Hey, you know you own 'Wild 'N Out,' right?" -Yeah.

I was about to tell you. You know, you just said, like,

"As-as we all know." But people don't know.

-Yeah. (laughs) -You know, there's a lot of people that don't,

-that don't grasp that. -And we had forgot. Yeah.

'Cause it's like... It had went... You know,

obviously, I was doing movies, music, other things,

and when it was the time to bring it back around,

I actually went with MTV and-and Viacom at the time.

And we went out to Madison Ave. to...

We went out and... together as a team

to sell to advertisers, to...

And that's-that's the time I was like, "Oh, I...

-own this..." (laughs) -"I'm a part of the... I'm a part of the business."

-Yeah, yeah, yeah. -"Oh, I'm here

"because I'm actually a part of the IP.

-This is... This is different." -Yeah. Facts.

Yeah. It's a different conversation.

And that was a learning experience, as well,

'cause, you know, you're sitting up with these people,

and you understand people's dollar spends

and marketing budgets and how it...

And what demographic they're trying to hit.

Oh, this a whole nother aspect of the game, even creatively,

but I never thought I would be a part of it.

Now, you know, I mean,

you've mastered it, you know, beautifully,

and even now we can sit up and have conversations

on a creative level.

We can talk about the marketing. We can talk about the approach.

We can talk about all type of layouts to where...

Uh, I don't know, we-we might be the first of the generation

-to do that because... -To do it... To do it and truly understand it.

-And have access to do it. -Yeah. You know,

when we look at our...

you know, the generation before us--

granted, you know, this generation, we salute,

we give flowers to, we bow down to

'cause they open up these doors--

but the opportunities of now

may not have been presented correctly then

for a lot of them to grasp the understanding of that ownership.

Yeah, and they had to play by the rules.

-Mm-hmm. -Like, now it's... There are no rules.

You create the rules. You've done stuff

in the space of social media and in-in new content

that has never been done before.

Well, I mean, it didn't exist then.

-Yeah. -They didn't have that tool then.

Facts. So, but even there were cats,

you know, people I still look up to to this day,

like a Spike Lee.

I mean, you watch what he did not only in his own films

but even in the space of, like,

what he did with the Jordan brand.

So they were cutting-edge on that,

but we were able to reap those benefits

to say, "Oh, we know what them marketing dollars are.

"We know what that is. Let's apply that

-and, you know, create content." -But where did you get that?

You've always been a guy that...

You understand that one plus one equals two.

-Right, right. -And-and with or without

the business of entertainment, you've-you've...

you've still implemented yourself

into other things, other revenue streams.

My question is, where did that come from?

Is that... Is that a family... Is that a family-learned trait?

Yeah. I mean, I think I definitely...

I mean, we all come... When you come from the mud,

when you got to make something out of nothing,

that's just what it is. The-the hustle is in us.

It's... And you see an opportunity,

you're like, "I want as much of that as possible."

-Mm-hmm. -My-my dad was cut from that same cloth

of just being an entrepreneur,

and my dad was doing everything from having...

trying to have a ministry to running his own business

to working for Coca-Cola to Frito-Lay to...

You know, like, so watching somebody

just really grind at that level...

And even, you know, my mom,

you know, being a teenager, having me, going to school,

three or four jobs, night school...

I just came from, like,

"Yo, these people are not gonna stop."

-You were around the hustle. Mm-hmm. -Yeah.

So I think that was just in me. And then I would...

I credit stand-up, honestly.

I mean, I was... I came out here as a teenager.

-You started when you was 15, 16. -Yeah, yeah.

Like... And that's professionally.

Before, I mean, I was doing talent shows

and all of that stuff at, like, 11, 12,

but by the time I got out there and really was on the road,

-I was 15. -How? How so early?

Well, the church, you know what I mean?

My dad would be speaking and then doing... So I would...

You know, talent shows and different church events.

-I was... I was, you know, the Christian. -The devil.

-(laughs) Yeah. -You were the devil.

Telling Jesus jokes. Open up for the preacher man.

And... But from that,

they was like, "Oh, there's something there."

And trying to do music at the same time.

Music in the church and flipping it

and going and doing the worldly stuff.

And by the time I got out there, my dad was like,

"Yo, this kid gonna do whatever he wants."

And it started even in space-- 'cause a lot of times,

th-those preachers who be trying to, you know,

get to the megapastor level,

they got to start on, like, public access,

and so that's what my dad was doing.

He... And I learned how to work...

I was his crew. I worked the cameras.

-I was the audio guy. -Wow.

And, so, 12, 13 years old, I'm in spaces like this.

-Wow. -Learning lighting, learning how to do that.

And then that just gave me that-that hustle energy.

So, when we got to the... out there doing stand-up,

-I was like, "Yo." -You've been doing this.

-This is what it is. -"I-I've been doing this for so long,

-I'm-I'm already comfortable in this environment." -Yeah.

I had no idea that you was behind-the-scenes that young.

-Public access. Like, you'd have to be... -Yeah.

You know, they'd be in there doing all type of...

Like, it's four different television programs a day,

and you got to work on all of them.

You're really controlling the-the stuff.

You're really behind-the-scenes

-doing the behind-the-scenes work. -Yeah. Yeah.

Like, I had a... I had a talk show

when I was, like, 11, 12 called "Who's Got the Wisdom."

-"Who's..." (laughs) -(laughs)

I had on a trench coat. I come out

like the ... from "The Twilight Zone."

"So, let me tell you who's got the wisdom."

-Who's got the wisdom. -'Cause of my...

Of course, my dad probably came up with the concept,

but I'm up there trying to have a one-on-one conversation

with, like, local mayors

and congressmen and stuff, but it's a kid.

Like, people would come in.

Because this was in North Carolina at the time.

People would come in. Like, I was interviewing,

like, Gladys Knight and Ramsey Lewis and Don King.

-Do you have any of that footage? -Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

-It's all... I mean, it's... -What are you doing with it?

My dad, he got, like, tapes and tapes of it.

What do you mean? Do you understand what that sizzle is?

Damn. It's-it's out there.

* *

Was your family always super supportive to your wants?

To-to the... To the goals of you and entertainment?

-Like, when you embraced comedy and stand-up... -Yeah.

-...was there ever pushback? -Once they realized

I wasn't gonna be no damn preacher.

(laughs) They was like, "Let him... Let him go."

-Did they want that? -Yeah, but, you know, I mean

that I was always a rebellious kid.

You know, PK's always challenging.

Like, I do way too much sinning to try to be anybody's preacher.

I know you do now, but back then?

I was a rebel, though. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, I was... I was... I challenged my dad.

And, you know, coming from... I didn't grow up with my dad,

so I kind of end... We end...

We met as a, "A'ight.

Um, you want to try to tell me what to do?"

And luckily we found that space.

-How old? How old were you when you... -Like 11, 12?

-Uh-huh. -You know what I mean? Uh, that's when my mom

figured it was time for me to go learn how to be a man

and live with my dad in creative spaces

like the church and-and public access television.

And that kind of allowed us to kind of build,

and-and from there, that's where the career started.

-Now, before... -He said, like, "He ain't gonna be in the church,

but he gonna do something."

But before you met your dad,

before your mom made that decision

-to open that door up... -Yeah.

...was there, like, uh...

Was there bad energy because of...

Nah. You see, what's dope about my family structure--

and I would say it's probably more unorthodox than most--

but, uh, my parents were teenagers when they had me.

-Mm-hmm. -So they were literally in high school.

I went to my dad's high school graduation.

(laughs): Like, like, so, the fact that...

I feel like we kind of grew up together.

So, my dad moved to North Carolina,

where part of our family was,

to go to college and become a minister.

My mom was working, grinding.

You know, nursing school

and working at Jack in the Box

and trying to go to college, become an accountant.

So I watched them go to school and rise and come up,

so even if I wanted to have, like, a grudge,

and "Where were you?" And that, like...

-They were kids, man. Like... -Yeah.

And as I got older, you know,

it was never like they weren't there.

And the beautiful thing, even, about my father

and, uh, his side of family

was his mother and his father embraced me as their own child.

(chuckles): So... And my mother, as well, you know what I mean?

So we was all living in the projects together,

you know what I'm saying? So, it was...

it was a cool look to where

even though my parents were so young

that they were never a couple,

it was still a family unit amongst us.

-So, I... -You guys have held onto that.

-To this day. -Very, very close until this day?

-Yeah. And it-it's a vibe, man. -Yeah.

I-I mean, clearly we all come from it and-and could...

If we wanted to be bitter about things...

I always say, "Man, ain't no point in getting bitter.

-Just get better." And that's... -What time...

What time... What time are you gaining?

What time are you gaining from a... from a bitter...

from-from a bitter attitude

-or a bitter approach? -Man, I mean, you do it brilliantly, man.

Your relationship with your pops, man.

I love... First of all, I love your dad.

He's probably my favorite. I don't care.

-Whatever event I go to... (laughing) -KEVIN: Nuts.

-My dad is nuts. -Okay.

I don't want to hang out with nobody...

My dad's nuts, man.

-...but Kev's pop. -(chuckles)

And-and it's because he's gonna be

in the corner: "Look at these motherfuckers."

-Yeah, he-he does... He... I've never seen... -(laughs)

I've never seen anybody that's just more...

He's just... He's just...

He-he shouldn't ever be where he is.

He is amazing, man.

He's the guy that just shouldn't be there.

No, I remember at the wedding, yo.

I didn't hang out with everybody.

It's a beautiful... It's, like, just the most beautiful shit

you ever seen in your life.

Like, fucking Alicia Keys

is singing y'all down the aisle, like...

-And then your dad is like, "Look at this shit." (laughs) -(laughs)

"What, these ... gonna pay Alicia Keys

to come to the... I could have sang this shit."

-It was, like, hilar... -Did you hear my-my dad's speech?

My dad's speech at the reception,

he goes, "Eniko, welcome to the wild side."

-(laughing) -And then... and then walked off.

What are you... What are you doing, man?

And laughed. (imitates laughter) And laughed.

-Like, he's never... He's never not been inappropriate. -Man.

I can tell you, I'll give you one more...

one more story about my dad

when I was like, "This is just who he is."

My mom's sister had passed away.

My mom was already... My mom had already passed.

-Mm. -So, my Aunt Mae passed away,

and, you know, I-I got to go and just make sure

-I-I pay my respects on behalf of my... -Right, right.

Just me, my brother, my mom.

-I want to be there, right? -Right.

I get there, and my dad, he's like,

"Yo, I'm-a come, too." I'm like, "All right."

It's a funeral. First of all, my dad shows up in white linen.

-My dad, my dad had on a white linen... -(laughing): At a funeral.

A white linen outfit, right?

So, it's before the funeral starts.

It's me, uh, at the time, my Aunt Patsy, uh, my cousins.

We were just standing in a little circle.

My dad came up in the middle of the circle.

He goes, "They dropping like flies, ain't they?"

-(laughing) -(chuckling): And I said, "Jesus Christ."

He just...

-Man, he's amazing, yo. -He just equated

my mom's sister's death to a fly.

"They dropping like flies, ain't they?"

-In his white linen. -Yeah.

"I hope I ain't next!" He's...

-Look, you can't change him. -Dressed like he going

-to a Diddy summer party. -You can't change him.

-Uh... -But he reminds me of my dad. I mean, same. That's why--

and I think that's even probably why you and I are so close,

because we have such similar upbringings

-to where it's like... -Absolutely.

We could be mad at our fathers

-if we wanted to, but for what? -For what? For what?

Man, like, we could...

Like, we didn't grow up in the normal way,

and we used our tests as testimonies, man.

-And that's really what it is. -You say "rebel."

You say you were a rebel.

Uh, I got to be honest, brother. It's still there.

-You still very much are. Uh... -Yeah, I mean,

I'm-I'm probably the only person on, uh, prime-time TV

-with neck tattoos. (laughs) -Yeah, I mean, listen, it's...

At this point, Nick, I've lost control.

I don't know what to say to you. I don't know.

-And I'll leave you alone. -You've tried to reel me in

on a lot of these conversations.

I leave you alone, though, because you are...

you're-you're beyond intelligent.

-Well, thank you, man. -Right? You're beyond intelligent.

So, I'm gonna... I don't have to say how smart you are.

-You're beyond that. -I appreciate it.

But you are also very determined

when you make the choice to be determined.

Yeah, can't nobody tell me nothing at the end of the day.

Like, especially if I have my mind set on something.

A-And usually, 'cause I'm-I'm a very strategic

-and calculated individual... -Very.

So I'm not... Even though my shit seem like it's gonna be...

I've probably thought it out,

thought every scenario, and then I act on it.

So, once I get there, even when people have tried

to, you know, reel it back in...

And we've had these conversations of, like,

"Man, Nick, why would you..." I'm like, "I don't care."

I don't give a... I don't care what people think.

So, that side comes out when I stand firm on my beliefs

-and when I stand firm with just being solid. -Mm-hmm.

'Cause at the end of the day, I know I come

from a-a strong moral compass of, like...

I just want to be good to people. I just want to go...

And you the same way, man. Like, you just want

to be able to say, "Look, I'm blessed,

so now I want to be a blessing to people."

And when-when anyone actually tries to challenge that,

then I'll probably buck up.

-Mm-hmm. -And-and that's why I always try to be,

you know, the-the dude that's gonna...

gonna zig when everybody else is zagging.

Here-Here's my thing that I found out about you, man.

You're very well-read.

There's-there's so much knowledge in there

-and-and information. -(chuckles)

When it comes to our culture, when it comes to Black people,

when it comes to the heritage,

when it comes to, you know, ancestors,

-where we're from, you're so well-read. -Yeah.

When-when did you start the search

for the abundance of information?

Man, that shit, honestly, was...

That was probably an insecurity more than anything.

Because I came into entertainment

and my career at such a young age,

I ended up skipping stuff like college and...

And I... So, I would get in forums

and have conversations, and I would feel

like I didn't have the wherewithal

to have a strong dialogue based off of anything.

So I just wanted to learn. I wanted a college education.

I wanted to appear to be smart.

But then once you get to that space where...

Now, like, I realize I'm in circles

where I don't want people to know how smart I am.

-Hmm. -I don't want to get in there and, like, try to be like,

"Well, I'm this, and I have this because..."

You know, first of all, nobody likes a know-it-all.

-Mm-hmm. -Nobody wants to be in a room

where everyone's like, "Hey, well, did you know this?

-Well, I just finished reading this book." -Mm-hmm.

So, I try to fall back on it now,

but now it's just such a passion and a habit that...

-I just love education. I love learning, man. -Mm-hmm.

And I never want to stop learning, so...

But I find myself, like, probably...

And this is probably just recently, you know what I mean?

Even with all of this stuff that I went through

in the-the last year or two, I was like,

"All right, sometimes you ain't got to tell everybody

everything that you know or everything..."

Like, but I used to want to do that.

-I wanted to prove to people how smart I was. -That's learned.

-That's learned, though. Right? -Yeah.

Like, it's a... it's a... it's a learned...

-it's a learned trait, a learned quality. -Yeah.

Because there is a moment

where there-there's a want for approval

within the thing that you now have.

You want... You want to see people go, "Oh, that's dope."

-Yeah. -"Oh, man, that's amazing that you..."

There's-there's a want for that.

But then after receiving that, you realize

that it's not as important as you once thought it was.

And that's the thing. That's-that's just our nature

and our culture because we have been so downtrodden

as a people to where it used to be illegal to read.

It used to be they...

Education wasn't something that was...

It was a privilege

even if we had the opportunity to go to school.

So you wanted to be like, "Look, I'm not wasting this space.

"I'm a... I actually can, uh, sit

"and have intellectual conversations

"on many levels because this...

"because I value it in the same way

that someone who is perceived to be better than me values it."

A-And that's even, like, that's from us getting money

and, you know, our love for-for the finer things,

'cause we want to show that, you know,

we have value in this space, as well.

But once you actually get to have knowledge yourself,

you know that, you know, none of that

has anything to do with it when you know...

Th-The strongest education I can have

is to understand who I am.

That's-that's a great segue to my next question, man.

You said something, uh, earlier on

-when you like, "Look..." -We're being fucking very serious here.

-This is great. I told you. I told you it's a great... -(laughs)

I told you it's great dialogue.

-This is real stuff. -This is... Yes.

It's a different version of me.

-It's why I wanted to do this. -This isn't how we talk every day.

-Yes, this is a... It's a... This is a great... -(laughing)

A great dialogue, okay?

Uh, here's a piece that I want to go back to.

You said, like, you know,

certain things, you just don't care.

-"I don't... I don't care what people think." -Yeah.

There was a moment where you and I,

we were having some talks, right?

-As-as shit hit the fan. -Yeah.

-Right, right. -You-You're no stranger to stepping in it.

-I'm no stranger to stepping in it. -I feel like our shit...

We-we volleyball with shit.

-We t... We shit... Tennis shit. -Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

'Cause, like, I'll be in some shit, and I'm like...

-But it's never at the same time. -Never at the same time.

I can always check on you.

-You've always been able to check on me. -Yeah.

If it happened at the same time, I'm-I'm scared

-of-of the lack of support. -Yeah, that would be crazy.

We-We've visited each other in the hospital

-multiple times. (laughs) -Yes. Yes, we have. Yes, we have.

There was a moment when you were going through your bout

and you...

you felt...

you felt the need to say, "The biggest hurt

is seeing my people turn on me."

-Ah, man. -"Seeing my people turn on me."

-Right? -Yeah, that shit. I was in therapy

for a long time about that shit.

Granted, like, okay, I know this group of people

is probably gonna feel this way.

Uh, but then, when the people

who are supposed to have your back start...

you're like, "Wait, hol... I'm trying...

-I'm repping for us." -Yeah.

That's when you find yourself, like,

"Okay, one, how serious is this?"

'Cause everybody sees this as a game,

uh, and-and a hustle and a grind and shit we talk about.

But when you actually talk about the principles

of who you are as a person

-and people start to question that... -Question.

...you're like, "Oh, shit. Wait, okay,

-what are... what are we even doing right now?" -Mm-hmm.

Because... And that's even, like...

I never wanted to be a leader.

I never wanted to be the voice of a certain group of people.

But then, when people just naturally start

to look at you for that and then they, like,

don't fuck with you because you might not have...

shared the common opinion of them

or you might have done something differently

than they would have done it, then you have

to really, like, find your own common ground

and be like, I'm-a stand in this regardless if my mama like it,

regardless if my kids like it,

regardless if my community likes it, regardless...

And that space, that-that's a growing point.

And that's when we would have these talks. I'm like, "Man..."

'Cause then you get to that place, be like,

-"Man, don't nobody fuck with me." -Yeah.

It's-it's... It's the thing that...

I won't even lie to you.

At one point, it was a...

-It was the biggest fear that I had in my career. -Mm.

-Mm. -The biggest fear is

-what if nobody don't like me? -Right.

What if they decide to not like me

or accept me or my talent?

-That was the fear. -Because the grind

is always about how likable you...

How-how how many people like you,

-how many followers... -It's about the acceptance.

-Yeah, it's about being accepted. -Right?

It's about... It's about the acceptance.

And-and it took me...

it took me going through the things that I went through

-to go, "Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute." -Yeah. Yeah.

"Oh, you're never going to make them all happy."

-And that's it. It's about... Fuck. -You're never gonna

-please them all. -Gives a fuck about what others think.

-Exactly. -You know, other people's opinions about me

-is none of my business. -Exactly.

It's about... Because, really,

when you're doing it for the acceptance,

then, really, that's the work you got to do within

because you're yearning for... There's something empty.

-Mm-hmm. -But now, like, man, I love being flawed.

I love knowing the fact that, like, I be fucking up.

-Mm-hmm. -(laughs) Like, just...

It's such a comfortable space to be in

because I'm happy with who I am.

I'm happy with the decisions I make.

And when I'm not happy with it,

that means I got to go work on me.

I'm not blaming it on a community, I'm not...

And that's what I really had to get to, because...

-Just like... -You were angry. You were angry.

-Yeah, I was mad, 'cause I'm like... -You was pissed off.

'Cause first of all, I was already on my, like,

-militant shit, right? -Mm-hmm.

Just from all of the learning that I've had.

And I'm like, "Yo, they really...

"They really fucking with us on so many different levels

"to a place where this is indoctrinated in us

from colonization."

-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. -You know what I mean?

And when you see that level of it,

you f... you get angry for humanity,

you know what I mean? (chuckles)

-Well... -And then, when I find that out...

And then I'm like, "All right, I'm trying to build us."

And then the people you trying to build ain't fucking with you.

-That's-that's where your frustration came from. -Yeah.

I feel like your frustration came

from you actually being on the front line.

-Yeah. -Not because it was the cool thing to do,

but it was because it was the right thing to do.

-Right, right. -You-you not only said,

-"I'm willing to lose everything for this..." -Right.

"...because that's how important this is."

-You felt like that's the stamp to show, "Guys, I'm..." -Right.

-"This is... This is a passion." -Yeah.

"Like, right is right, wrong is wrong,

"and what's wrong is-is so blatant

"that I want to be a part of somehow making it right,

"and this is gonna be my effort.

This is my energy."

And when you gave that,

went through what you went through,

and then it seemed like there was an about-face

-where people all of a sudden forgot that... -Yeah.

...that acted as a... as a nice little...

as a nice little stab to the heart.

-Yeah. -Because it was the...

it was the last thing that you would expect.

And it's one of those things, too,

because a-a little bit of that...

And it goes back to what we were talking about earlier

of just acceptance and even...

I wanted people to understand that I was intelligent.

I wanted people to understand

how, you know, "down" I was,

how in tuned.

And then when you're trying to do

all of the right things for that acceptance

and then you realize they're never gonna accept you.

-Mm-hmm. -You know, uh, whether people want to label you as corny

or label you as a sellout or label you...

Because, first of all, success is intimidating.

-Mm-hmm. -And, so, even dealing with that from a young age

mixed in with when we start doing with...

dealing with social issues,

then you start to question

the communities in which you're a part of.

And then, when you get to that space, you're like...

You-you never... One, you never want to speak bad

about your own or what you believe your own to be.

And then you, also, then you find yourself like,

"All right, well, if I'm trying to build myself up,

"I don't have to talk bad about the other people

even if my people want me to talk bad about other people."

-You don't have to. -Yeah. And I learned...

I'm-a be honest, man. I learned that from some cat,

you know, some of the best to ever do it,

and really having to take some of those lessons from, like,

you know, you know, Harry Belafonte, you know?

-KEVIN: Wow. -NICK: Who's still one of the coldest

-and one of the... -KEVIN: Wow.

NICK: From activism to entertainers.

And then even, you know, Dick Gregory.

-Cussed me out in that hospital. -Cussed... He...

Kev came to see me in the hospital and got cussed out

-by Dick Gregory. -KEVIN: Cussed me out.

-Dick Gregory. -NICK: But... And he literally, like,

-He don't give a fuck. -No.

Like, just every-every word out his mouth,

-"motherfucker" this. -I did nothing. All I did

-was come to the hospital, Dick. -"Fuck you doing?"

"What you doing? What you doing here?" Dick, I came to see Nick.

-Yeah. "How much money you got?" (laughing) -You know, Dick...

I was like, "Dick, I don't want talk to you

about the... What are you talking about?"

"You ain't putting that money in Black banks."

Nobody told me I should.

Nobody told me what to do, Dick.

-"Well, don't do it, then." -Well... (laughs)

I said... I said, "Dick, what did I do?"

"Yeah, you stupid mother..." I just...

I've never been cussed out for no reason.

'Cause he-he'll tell you straight, "I was...

"I was running across this motherfucking country

"w-with, uh, Muhammad Ali.

-No, I-I... We really ran." -"We ran. I really ran.

-I-I ain't talking about no bus!" -"We ran."

"Stupid mother..."

-"Dick, I never said you didn't." -I just said...

"You think you in shape? You think you got to hustle, Hart?

-Huh?" -"No. No, Dick, I didn't."

-By the way, Nick... Nick knows... -"Huh?"

-He always hit you with the "Huh?" -When I tell you the...

Nick... The people that Nick know,

you just go, "How did this happen?"

Like when I... Nick was in the hospital.

-You're-you're battling lupus. -Yeah.

-Yeah. -You're in the bed. He's sick.

-Blood clots. -Why is Dick... Why is Dick Gregory here, Nick?

-Cussing people out. -H-How did this happen?

-(laughing) -Why would he be here on the same night?

I had so many questions.

It was a brilliant night, though, man.

A-And just even but... Life lessons, man.

They... These are people that paved the way for us,

and all we can do is sit back and listen.

And-and that's really where I got to those spaces.

And even when I was met with my own challenges,

it's like, "Man, just go within."

Because, as we know-- you know, man--

we built for this.

-Absolutely. -Tough times don't last,

-but tough people do. -Ooh.

Who is Nick Cannon as a dad, then?

Segueing off of that and you talking

-about energy to the kids. -Yeah.

I mean, right now, Nick Cannon as a dad...

-The number's growing. -I'm a dad to a whole bunch of motherfuckers.

-(laughs) -Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, I mean,

-you just had... you just had a new baby, right? -Yeah.

-Uh... -Yeah. It's crazy,

-our kids are so similar in ages. -Same-same ages.

Um, I get to that space, man,

of there's a level of responsibility...

-Total-total number. -I don't know that.

-You gonna put me on the spot right here? -I'm saying...

It's like Spades. I got eight and a possible nine.

(both laughing)

-I like children, damn it! I like having... -Okay. All right.

-You like procreating. -I'm out here.

-You're procreating. -Procreating.

You want... You want the-the Cannon...

The name... The Cannon name is gonna live on, all right?

-Forever. -Forever. But-but coming from a space of like,

"Man, I'm really trying to build and-and...

and establish as much as I possibly can."

Because I feel, like, as a provider, so...

I mean, right now, as we sit here,

you know, being... Even having six kids,

it-it gives me the ability to say,

"Man, I can affect so much."

And-and even, you know,

me and Mariah's twins are, like...

Just seeing what that entity building now...

They're gonna be... They preteens.

And I'm like, damn, I didn't know

that that was gonna turn into that

and then watch a legacy come out of that.

And-and my youngest. Having, you know, a new baby girl

and watching her have...

It's a different world. So, that's, like...

That responsibility to be able to say,

"Not only did I put this energy into this space,

"but now I have to be man enough

"to stand firm in who I am

-so that I can be an example to them." -Yes.

And that's a... And that's vulnerability.

That's-that's emotions. That's, like...

So, I'll-I'll never try to get it right.

I'll never try to be that perfect example,

you know what I mean? Like, as-as cliché as it sound...

-That's strong to say. That's strong. -Yeah.

'Cause I ain't trying to be a role model

'cause a role is something you play.

You know what I mean? We just out here trying to be authentic.

We're trying to be real models. We trying... Not even a model.

-We trying to be real humans. -"Not trying to be a role model

because a role is something that you play."

-Strong. Strong. -(stammering)

You're out here talking isms, man.

-You know. (laughs) -No, no, I'm... Listen, I...

I'm-I'm picking up a lot of the stuff that you're laying down.

I love to talk to you because I listen.

I find myself just honestly listening.

Okay, so, on some... on some real shit,

let's talk this for a second,

'cause this is what I struggle with,

and I see you deal with it very well.

'Cause n-naturally, I'm an introvert.

-I don't... -You-you... You fall back.

The bigger a room gets, you fade to the background.

-Yeah, and you... -You don't... You don't like the...

You effortlessly walk into a room and control the energy.

-Mm-hmm. -I don't like controlling the energy in the room.

-Why? -You... It's...

I don't know.

I don't want that responsibility.

But I don't think it's more of a responsibility.

-I think that, you know, sometimes... -I'd rather observe.

I'm an introvert. I'm a natural introvert,

but even into that question,

because you do it so effortlessly.

You move... You move like a king.

You move, you walk in. "Oh, shit, that's Kevin Hart."

You're like... I'd rather be a little bit more silent,

and I think that's an insecurity of mine,

because I have this...

I struggle with...

As much as I don't want to be accepted,

as much as I want to be different from everybody,

I think coming up the way we came up,

I have this issue with...

I call it just... It's real ... syndrome.

-(laughing) -You can't.

-You can't call it that. -But that's what it is.

Well, you can't call it that. You got to...

-Somebody else has to have that discovery. -Because the... Okay.

So, I'll say just like this, and it's real common.

-We're sitting up here. There's cameras and... -Yeah.

This is... This... Man, this is...

Hopefully, like I said, it'll be documented.

Like, "Man, those two friends, two brothers

-sitting up there, having a great conversation." -It will be.

But to the cat that's on the block,

to the cat that doesn't get to experience

these rooms that you control when you walk in,

are we really connecting?

Are we actually being our authentic selves?

Right now you are. To hear you talk...

-I love talking to you, because flawed, unflawed... -Right.

...you're-you're you.

-Right. -And, you know, the way you talk,

the way you speak...

People, this here, man...

You're so comfortable with being uncomfortable.

-(laughs) -Y-You're so...

-Right, right. -You're so okay with saying,

"Yo, therapy. I'm not getting it right.

I don't know this." Or, "Trying to figure this out."

"Why do people care? I don't know, man."

Like, it's... You're asking yourself these questions.

You're trying to figure this stuff out.

You're-you're a work in progress, as am I.

As am I. A forever work in progress.

And here's the thing: we're never going to get it right!

-It's never gonna be perfect! -(chuckles) Facts.

-We're never gonna walk on a straight line. -Yeah.

We're still gonna trip. We're still gonna fall.

But if we can continue to be better

than we were the day before

or the week before, then we're doing our job.

This right here, to me,

this is... this is doing our job.

-Mm. -This was a dope-ass conversation,

and it was real.

People don't get to hear us talk like this.

-Nah, that's real shit. -And that's what this is about.

-How much I owe you? -You don't owe me anything,

-but... -(laughs) The therapist, when they say shit like that,

-they charge me afterwards. -They charge. No, no charge, man.

Nick, I appreciate you coming on, man.

Amazing conversation. Great dialogue.

That's what this is about, man.

-That's what "Hart to Heart" is about. -That's what it is.

I'll be damned if we didn't just have one.

Yeah, that was... That was some real heartfelt shit.

It damn sure was. Nick Cannon. Hmm?

Next time I come here, you can have some Capri Suns.

No. No Capri Suns, okay? How much are they paying you?

-Are you getting a check from them? -I-I should!

-I want to talk to you about that. -As much as I...

-At least send me some free. -You got a Capri Sun deal?

-I should get one. -Did you get a Capri Sun deal?

-I need one. 'Cause... -That's the guy who's always...

Did you get a Capri Sun deal?!

'Cause I got a guy who's over at Capri Sun.

Life anecdotes. I believe in 'em.

Life is nothing without a full stomach.

What I'm saying is, use the bathroom twice

during the week and once on Sunday.

Figure it out on your own time. (chuckles)

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