Original subtitles

* *

She's an Academy Award-nominated

and a Golden Globe-winning actress. (whoops)

A producer, an entrepreneur and a mental health advocate.

She's hilarious, and guess what, she's my friend.

I think the last credit is probably the best one.

She's my friend.

I'm talking about Taraji P. Henson.

-Hey. -Oh, look at this.

-Hey. Oh. -Hi. Let me go down here.

Stop doing that. Why do you do that?

-I'm sorry. I'm sorry. -Why do you do that?

You always got to go low. Stay high.

Well, these chairs are pretty low.

-Yes, well, I'm... -For you, huh?

-I'm a small... -So your feet don't dangle like that?

-It's to make me a taller guest. -Well, I need a real chair.

-Sit back in the chair, Taraji. -Um, okay.

I haven't seen you in a long time, Kevin.

It's been a minute. You look amazing.

-Thank you. -Really, really amazing.

-This whole thing. -Thank you. So do you. So do you. So do you.

It's actually been a while. When was the last time I seen you?

"Think Like a Man"?

-No! -No. No.

Puffy's party. Puffy's party.

Okay. Before we start,

get the lay of the land and then I got to talk to my sister.

-Okay. -First and foremost, I miss you.

You don't realize how much you miss a person

till you see 'em, like, in person, face-to-face.

I haven't seen you, T.

It's just made me miss you more. Dead serious.

Oh, you're a horrible actor. Stick to comedy.

-What do you mean? -(clears throat)

-What do you mean? -(laughs)

I just gave you, like, a heartfelt "I miss you."

-That was serious. -Oh...

-You're in my wine cellar, right? -I am?

I know you love wine. That's where we are.

-We're in my wine cellar right now. -But is this just...?

Yes, well, here's what I'm about to tell you...

-I thought I was gonna walk up on it. I'm sorry. -No.

Am I too anxious? It's a pandemic.

-My nerves. My anxiety. -No. Well, don't-- Well, calm down.

-Okay. -You don't have to have nerves and anxiety right now.

-'Cause I'm heart-to-heart? -We have a heart-to-heart.

-Heart-to-heart. -But we have it over a glass of wine.

-Yes, wine. Bring it in. Hello. -Okay. My somm.

-This is my somm. My... -Good evening.

-Good evening. Good evening. -Ms. Henson. Mr. Hart.

-Good evening. -What are we drinking today?

2018 Vin Rouge No 1.

We're drinking a Vin Rouge No 1.

But that's not what I asked for

-when your people called me last night. -What did you want?

-What did you want? -I said Caymus.

-You wanted Caymus? -Yeah.

I don't have Caymus, but I have a cabernet.

-Oh, God. -Mm. -This is a Syrah blend.

I don't drink every cabernet, though.

-Okay. -Okay, I'll try it. I'm-I'm... I'm down for any.

-Well, just try the... -I want to see... I'll try it.

-Try the damn wine. -Mr. Hart, I got a D.

-I'm-a try it. -I'm pouring her first.

Pour her first, man.

-Thank you. -You're very welcome.

I don't know why you have to do this.

You don't even know what this is.

-I'm-a try it, but... -Try it.

You know how when you have your taste buds set

-on something? -Okay?

Okay, so, if I called you and said,

-"Kevin, let's go out to dinner." -Yeah?

"My treat. Where do you want to eat?"

-Okay. -"Pick a place."

-I mean, if it's up to me? -Pick a place.

I'm real big on, uh...

I don't know.

I'd probably...

I'd probably ask for, like, a nice little chicken spot.

Chicken spot. So if I take you to Crustaceans,

and you ask for chicken...

Do they have chicken at Crustaceans?

Um, no.

I'm not, I'm not you. I'm not that picky.

-(laughs) -Okay? I'm not that picky, T.

I know, but you asked me.

-I didn't ask you nothing. -Okay, cheers.

You know how I know I didn't ask you nothing?

Because I don't talk to people before they come on the show.

Your ego is very big, like your glass.

Do you know why I don't talk to people that come

-on the show, or before they come on the show? -Why?

Because I want the conversation to be just raw, real.

-You want this glass instead of mine? -(chuckles)

I have a, I have a Napoleon complex. Give it back.

Okay. I won't, I won't mess with you.

-(laughs) I just love it. -(chuckles) Just-just give it... just give it back.

I... I miss you, Kevin.

First and foremost, let's start here.

-Congrats, okay. -On...?

Congrats on life, on success,

on a continuing climb in this business,

on maintaining a...

straight, dope body of work...

-Thank you. -...over the course of, I mean, what can I say now...

-(scoffs) Don't age me, motherfucker. -How many years now?

-I'm not gonna age you, but when was "Baby Boy?" -No, I'm good.

It was literally, like, 20-something years.

-"Baby Boy." -"Baby Boy" was what? 90...? (mutters)

-No. No, no. -I was 29.

KEVIN: So you're talking...

TARAJI: I was 29 and Tyreese was 19.

KEVIN: (chuckles) "Baby Boy" was in 2...

It was early 2000s, though, right?

-Yeah. Yeah. -I think when it came out.

We filmed it, like, the end of 90...

I think I was 29, so that's 1999, right?

How many years, how many years in the business now for you?

Little over 20. I stopped counting.

-20 years in the business. Strong. -Yeah. Mm-hmm.

And "Baby Boy," the first thing.

-That's the first thing that Taraji P. Henson did. -"Baby Boy" was the first thing.

-Yeah. Uh, no. -That was your arrival to the scene.

That was the first feature.

I came out here to do sitcom, you know?

To-- You came out to L.A.?

I came to L.A. to book a sitcom.

Well, you're from, you're where it's real

-and where it's thug at. -Well, you know, D.C.

-You're from D.C., right? -(chuckles)

-Mmm. -So in D.C., uh,

I already know how-- Now, now-now apologize.

-I'm sorry. -Apologize.

I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.

-Drinking the Rouge 2018. -(laughs): I'm so sorry.

Can I have some when I leave?

Huh? Yes, we can give you whatever you want.

-We gonna go through this. Like... -(gasps)

-I know you like to drink, so we're gonna drink. -This is amazing.

-It's good! -What if I was recovering?

-Well, you're not. -(laughs)

And if you were, then I would be...

-I would've just been like, "All right." -You'd feel... (laughs)

-(chuckles) "Well, get the, uh..." -"Get the grape juice."

"Get the, get the grape juice. Goddamn it, guys.

We made a mistake."

-Um... -This is really good, Kevin.

But D.C. though, I'm saying, like,

what-what is it that sparked the-the exit from D.C. to L.A.?

I graduated from Howard University.

-I was a mother already. -Mm-hmm.

And that baby was looking at me like,

-"What we gonna do now?" -Mm-hmm.

And I was like, "Well, I got to go make this degree pop."

So, my dad actually asked me,

"How do you catch fish on dry land?"

He used to speak in metaphors, and he was really brilliant--

may he rest in peace-- but I was like,

"what-what the hell do you mean, Dad?

Just, like, speak plain English?"

And he was like, "You have a degree in acting.

-You have to go to where the fish are." -Mm-hmm.

"This is dry land, There's no acting jobs here."

So he raised, him-him and my family pulled together

and raised $700 and sent me out to L.A.

And I asked a friend who was working for Delta at the time

for a buddy pass.

I knew I wasn't coming back.

-One way? One way ticket. -One way. One way ticket.

-You and your son or just you at the time? -Me and my son.

-Wow. -My dad tried to keep my son.

He was like... I'm like-- I was like, "You can't keep,

that's my child." Like, I-- He's my responsibility.

I'm not leaving my son with his grandparents.

Just-- I'm not that type of parent.

Like, we're gonna make it together.

And then I got out to L.A. and freaked out.

Like, "Dad, no, I need to send him back."

And he was like, "No, you were right.

He's gonna be your blessing."

And-and, he's-he's alw...

-You know a child is a blessing. Period. -You'll be so blessed.

But coming out here single and trying to tackle Hollywood,

he kept me focused.

'Cause I couldn't club. I couldn't go out.

Like, I was about that business.

And people be like, "You need to go to the clubs."

And I'm like, "Well, I'm smart enough to know that,

-hmm, business ain't happening at a club." -Mm-hmm.

It's too loud, people are drunk. (chuckles)

-They're trying to do something else. -Yeah.

Handle some other kind of...

Back in my heyday.

We not gonna talk about that.

(laughing)

You say TV. That was the beginning stages of it.

What was the road of finding out the audition process?

How did Taraji get seen, or start to get seen

or try to figure out how to get into the, uh, the revolving...

-The business? The business side of acting. -Yeah. The-the business of it.

I had a agent, a local manager in D--

in Maryland at the time.

And she had a couple connects out here.

She hooked me up with this small-time agency.

The first audition they sent me,

-it was for a... a Norman Lear project. -Okay.

They sent me out. So, this is the first...

audition they sent me on.

The same day, I get called back to go to network and studio.

-Off the first audition? -First audition.

-Um... -I mean, this is big for the morale.

-(sputters) Come on. -This is huge,

-huge for the morale. -I'm like, "I made it."

-(laughs) -Yeah, huge for-- And the first thing,

the first thing is always the biggest thing in your eyes.

-Yeah. -Right. But this when I knew there was, uh...

politics, or whatever. I don't know.

Naming, pecking order.

-Like, I had to work my way up to a name. -Mm-hmm.

Because Rain, um, Pryor is

who actually ended up getting it, as she should.

People know her, they don't know me.

-I'm new to the game. -Mm-hmm.

So, that's when I was like, "Oh, okay, I see what it is."

That agency never sent me out on another audition.

But I was smart enough to know y'all got to go.

(scoffs) So I dumped them, and I got another agency.

And that was literally what was going on.

They just didn't get me, you know.

Um, I wasn't "the norm" at the time.

You know, back then, it was like,

-you had to look a certain way. -Mm-hmm.

You know, nowadays...

-I'm glad to be a Black woman. -Yeah.

I've always been glad to be a Black woman, but it's, like,

in Hollywood right now, you can wear your natural.

you can... You know, back then you had to wear straight hair.

You couldn't, you know, be your authentic s...

You were trying to compete, you were trying

-to compete with the... -Well, you had to fit in.

Well, yeah. I mean, and, uh, it was... it was very far

or few and in-between with the opportunities

-for the Black woman. -Absolutely.

They were only telling, like, a couple stories.

A couple of our diverse stories, you know.

-So I was... -What-- and you were mindful of that

-at that point in time in your career? -Uh, well, I knew...

Well, because what I kept getting from my agents

at the time is they kept saying I was "too edgy."

And I'm like, "Too edgy? What?"

That's 'cause you're just thug.

-Well, I am a thug. -Yeah. That's what that is.

-But I'm a trained actress. -Very true.

But you can't judge me on who I am,

-'cause that's never gonna change. -Yeah.

I don't judge you on it. I'm saying, I know...

No, not you.

-I-I'm just saying, I want you to know -(laughs)

-that I know what's in there. -I know you know.

-I know. Yeah, I know you do. -Like... Yeah, like this.

-Like... -You don't, you'll never let me forget.

Like, this, this. You got this thing.

I got all of that.

-Like, what you...? What? -What?

-Yeah. Who you? -What?

-Who you? What? -What?

-Like, that's in there. -Grabbing the bottle.

-Looking for the weapon. Yeah. -Yes. Yes. Yes.

Oh, it's okay. I'm working... I have a therapist.

-Okay. Okay. (laughs) -It's called rage. I'm working on it.

And there are reasons for it. That's why therapy is good.

Okay. Okay, we'll get there. We'll get down there.

-(laughs) -We'll get down there.

I can't, I can't wait to get down there.

No, therapy is great.

But, um, yeah, so it was just a lot of noes,

a lot of knowing, um...

You know, I knew that I had what it took.

I knew that there was a lane

that I had to carve out, like everybody.

I don't think there's anybody that's like someone else.

So whenever you come out here

-you always have to carve out your lane. -Mm-hmm.

Not unless you're saying,

"I want to do exactly what this person did.

-Let's do..." -Unless you want to pattern after an exact individual.

-Yeah, well, who wants to do that? -Mm-hmm.

You know? And that's okay, I'm not judging,

but I wanted to create my own path.

I wanted the naysayers to go like,

"Damn, I'm sorry I second-guessed her."

You know? You should always bet on TPH, baby.

-I like that. -Don't bet against me.

TPH, by the way, is what Taraji,

that's her abbreviation for herself.

That's Taraji P. Henson, just as you're watching...

-(chuckles) -I know you probably thought it was a highway.

-It's not. -(laughs)

That's-that's Taraji. TPH is what she goes by.

* *

* *

So, you know, you're out here. You're in it.

Now you're in the flow of things.

Things are going well. You booked a big role.

-"Baby Boy" pops. Right? -Mm-hmm.

Becomes a major success. RIP to John Singleton.

-Yes. -I had, uh...

I had Cube, and me and Cube talked.

We talked about John Singleton for a minute.

And now you being here, it's amazing

just understanding and realizing

how many careers John Singleton has touched.

How many, you know, platforms he's given

-to birth the stars that we're looking at today. -Mm-hmm.

Is this surreal, after the success of "Baby Boy," for you?

Um, no. I knew it was coming,

but I knew it would be a slow burn.

-Okay. -'Cause by that point

I was really understanding the business,

-and you know what I mean by that. -Mm-hmm.

Um, I knew that Tyreese would pop before I did.

Think about it. After "Baby Boy," he got, um,

-"Transformers" and "Fast and Furious." -(imitates whooshing)

What did I get?

I was on Lifetime

playing a rookie cop on this show called "The Division."

But see, I knew I had to do that.

-That was by choice. -Mm-hmm.

Because you can't keep-- Don't keep--

'Cause I knew I was always getting,

"She's edgy. She's edgy."

-Now I play a edgy role... -Mm-hmm.

...and-and I started-- People were like,

"They-- Where did they find this girl?

She ain't even acting." So I took that as a--

"Okay, you just don't even know what I really can do."

I do Shakespeare in the Park, Chekhov.

I'm a trained actress, right?

Put a chip on your shoulder a little bit?

-Not really. It just... -Okay.

I love when people doubt me.

-I'm sure you understand that. -Absolutely.

-'Cause, uh, you're laughing at a lot of people right now. -Absolutely.

Oh, my God. Not even laughing, watching--

Did you send them their menu of crow,

-and how they would like it? -It's just... I mean, you-you,

you do understand there is a restaurant

-that I'm familiar with. -Serves crow?

-And it serves crow and humble pie. Right? -Whew.

-Humble pie. So... -Yes.

so I think there's nothing better than a, uh,

a best served dish of humble pie,

depending on how you like it.

Some people like it cold, some people like it warm.

-But it's not for me to give. -Yeah.

-It's for you to understand. -To choose. I'm-a give you the menu.

-Yes. You-- -You-you pick how you want that crow.

-Absolutely. -Roasted. How you want it?

-Absolutely. -Fried? (chuckles)

But-- so that, then-- that just fuels me.

And I think it's when you come from nothing,

-you already have a chip on your shoulder. -Mm-hmm.

You already have a lot to prove, right?

That's how I came to Hollywood.

And so everybody's telling me, "Oh, she's too this,

she's too that. She's too this, she's too that."

-I've been hearing that my entire career. -Mm-hmm.

You know? That's why I almost didn't take Cookie.

-Really? -I said no.

I was in a-- I literally left "Person of Interest"

because I didn't like how I was being handled on that show.

I felt like my talent was being marginalized.

And so I...

I remember asking-- they might get mad--

I remember asking Chris Rock...

and who else was in town at the time?

It was Chris Rock and...

-Jamie Foxx... -Okay.

...their opinion-- was it Jamie Foxx?

I don't want to get anybody wrong, but it was somebo--

It was, like, high up that I really respect,

and they just happened to be in New York at the time.

And I bumped into them and I was like,

"You know, I'm really having this issue.

"I-I feel stifled. I can't go on work and do other things.

"And I don't feel like I'm being used enough on this show.

"And I'm a creative, and I'm sitting around

"and I'm rotting in New York.

And I want out."

And they were like, "Oh, no! Don't you do that.

"Don't you leave that show.

"That's gonna be the end of your career. Don't leave."

So then I'm-I'm like...

Don't-- That-that, to me,

was like, I got to prove them wrong

because I felt like I was being marginalized, my talent.

-Mm-hmm. -I didn't...

-I wanted to shine and-and be a creative. -Okay.

And it would be, like, weeks and weeks I wasn't working.

I would work two days here.

-I just-- It wasn't enough for me as a creative. -Mm-hmm.

Thank God, you know,

the producers and the network and I--

They-- You know, what network wants a actor that's not happy?

Like, I would release that actor in a minute if you're not happy.

I literally had to reset,

'cause I-I didn't like acting anymore.

-I really didn't like... -Damn.

Because it was po-- It was too much, uh, "minursha" in it,

-you know what I mean? -What does "minursha" mean?

M-- Am I saying that right?

I said it right.

-Minutiae! (laughs) -Minutiae!

(imitates hiccup) Hiccup. Um, minutiae.

(both laughing)

-Minutiae. -Minutiae.

-Um, you know what that... -(laughs)

Were you trying to be smart, you...

No. I really don't know what it means.

-Do you know what "minutiae" means? -No!

Okay. The mess. The muddle.

-The-the all the red tape. -Okay.

-The details. -Okay.

Yeah. I was just like, I just want to be talented.

I just want to do what I came out here to do.

So I literally was like, let me do a reset.

Let me see how I really feel about this craft

that I thought I loved all my life.

I went to do a play in Pasadena.

Wow.

And... 'Cause that's where I come from-- theater.

To find that-- To just simply spark, spark your love back.

-Absolutely. I had... -I need to fall back in love with this thing.

-You got it. -Got you.

And so I'm in Pasadena.

I didn't care if anybody came to see it.

I didn't care. I was there for my own reason.

It wasn't for casting directors or producers or...

I didn't care,

because I didn't care that that thing sold out.

The first two nights of preview--

not opening night, preview-- they made all their money back.

And from the preview on, that place sold out every night.

How long, how long did the play go?

Six weeks, that's all. Six weeks.

And people were driving--

-Um, you know Pas-- This is not a theater town. -Mm-mmm.

This is not like New York, people go to the theater.

Here, they don't really go to the theater.

So you mean people are traveling to Pasadena.

Pasadena, for anybody that's not from L.A.,

-it's not close. It's out. -It's a distance.

-It's a distance. -Yeah.

And people were coming from miles around.

Crenshaw, Compton. My audience found me.

They saw my name above the title on that play, and they found me.

Not only did they find me, Fox found me,

and they were coming to me every night.

And my manager at the time was like,

"Yeah, go outside and meet Fox.

They're-they're gonna be there after the show." And I'm like,

"For what?" "They got a script."

I said, "Didn't I tell you I don't want to do TV?

-I'm done with TV. I'm done." -Wow.

* *

* *

-Have you ever done theater? -No.

-(exhales) You did, -No.

-uh, "Saturday Night Live," right? -I keep hearing it's...

-Yes. -It's like that.

I keep hearing it's-it's a different monster,

-but it's a rush like no other. -It's a di-- The closest I can get--

Uh, did you get a rush on NB-- on, um...

-"Saturday Night?" -"SNL"? Absolutely.

-Absolutely. Yeah. -'Cause it's-it's boom, boom, boom.

You practice and then you go, right?

-It's live. You're live. -Even... that's

even more fast-paced, but that's what theatre is.

It's live. So if you flub a line,

you better figure out how to make it work.

If the set falls on your head,

you don't have the luxury of take two.

So that's why I feel like a lot of the stronger actors

are comedians 'cause y'all have to do that all the time

with hecklers and stuff like that,

-and people who come from theater. -Mm-hmm.

Because it's live. It's in the moment all the time.

You can't-- Like I said, you don't have the luxury of,

"Take, oh, I messed up. Can I do it again?

-Cut! And reset. Yeah. -(laughs) Right?

No, no, the c-- The audience is already in.

They suspended their disbelief.

They got-- You got to take them with you, you know.

This wine is really good, and I forgot where I was going.

-I could give you. I'm right here with you. -Tell me, what is it?

So, theater. After that, Fox wants to talk to you.

-Fox is outside. -And I finally, um, read the script...

-I'm one of the best listeners ever. -You are incredible.

A listener. Uh, 'cause I'm engaged.

-Your story is that good. -Wow.

If it wasn't, then I'd be lost.

I'd be like, "I don't know where you are,"

and I would find something else to talk about,

-but I want to know, like... -Wow, you're amazing.

-Yes. So, now Fox is there. -(chuckles)

-Fox wants to what? They want to sign you? -So, they send me--

So, I finally read the script, 'cause now Fox is

meeting me backstage every night.

And I'm like, "I guess I better read this script."

So, I start reading the script. I was so scared.

I was like, no, she's horrible.

She calls her gay son the f-bomb.

She beats one with a broom, even though, huh,

you know I'm that kind of mom if you push me.

Um... (laughs) But...

but I was like, I can't do this on TV.

The white people-- oh, my God-- they're gonna be like, "Oh, no."

But, um, once I am scared,

that's when I know I have to do it.

So if I don't feel challenged, I won't...

What was you and-and Lee's conversation

in the beginning stages of-of that?

Lee... So, Lee, um, was overseas

promoting "The Butler" at the time.

And they set up a Skype for us.

And I finally read the script, and I really liked it.

And, like, when I read it, I was like,

"Oh, this is me and Terrence Howard."

-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. -Hands down. This is--

Terrence will kill this role.

And we have that dyna-- Like, I was like, "Oh, my God."

Was Terrence already... was he already the guy?

-No, he was not. -Okay.

I don't know who they had gone out to, but they...

(belches quietly)

(chuckles): Excuse me. I was a lady.

I didn't go... (imitates loud belch)

-But, um... (laughs) -(laughs)

But, um...

But, um, so, they had already gone out to someone.

And so by the time I talk to Lee, I was like,

"Lee, look. I love this project. I think it's great,

but I'm not doing it unless it's Terrence."

-Wow. Wow. -So... Bye-bye. Click, ooh.

Closed him. And next thing you know,

I'm going in to read with Terrence.

-Just like that? -Just like that.

And based off of you and Terrence's history--

Now, before this, just to connect some tissue here,

you know, "Hustle and Flow," you and Terrence did--

amazing movie, amazing project.

-Mm-hmm. Thank you. -Another John Singleton piece.

So, I just want to tag on these relationships real quick.

Um, you and John. What was that relationship for you,

uh, with you in the business in those younger stages?

Because "Hustle and Flow" came after "Baby Boy."

-Yes. -Yes.

So that was a call to you?

-Was that an audition? -No.

Was that you from the gate, or what?

John called me and said, "I have this script,

"'Hustle and Flow.' I want you to read it.

"This dope new director, Craig Brewer.

-He bop, bop, bop." -Okay.

And he was like, "I'm sending you this script.

-You pick the role." -Okay.

"Boo, I need your eyes." That's what he said.

He always talked about my eyes.

Actually, his mother, to this day, calls me Betty Davis--

-Betty Davis eyes. -Wow. Wow.

But, um... So-- And he called me Lucy.

Lucille Ball. (chuckles)

But anyway, so, um,

he called and said, "I need you to-to be in this movie.

It's a independent." Blah, blah, blah.

"I just need your eyes. Read the script."

And, you know, of course Lexus jumped out,

but I was like, no, because remember,

I'm fighting against what Hollywood is telling me.

-You didn't want to be that character. Yeah. -Right.

So I was like, "Nah, I can do that

with my hands behind my back."

I was like, "But this Shug is a quiet...

She's a quiet storm."

-And then I was just drawn... -I was gonna say, you were very, you were very...

-you were very much different. -Oh, God.

Like, she was, she was subdued a little bit, you know.

-She was very... -She was a diamond in the rough.

Very, very, uh... what-what's it--

Like a introvert to a certain degree.

And, you know, when-when she got on the microphone,

she had came out a little bit, but it was very much laid back.

-You weren't as-- You weren't aggressive... -No.

...in-in "Hustle and Flow" at all.

-She was a very different character. -Absolutely.

Her voice-- She had never heard her voice before.

-Absolutely. -Because people had always taken advantage of her,

so she didn't feel important enough to speak up for herself.

-It was a discovery. Mm-hmm. -You know, that's the research I did.

But it was in there, you know. I just went a little further.

I just remember when I read it, I was like,

I want the audience to want

to reach through the screen and hug her,

and get her and take care of her. I just--

Because that's what I felt like when I saw her, when I read her.

And you and Terrence, at the time you guys did this movie,

from the gate, you guys hit it off?

-From the gate? -Terrence didn't want me for Shug.

-Really? -Yeah. You have him on the show and ask him about that.

-Really? -Mm-hmm.

He didn't want you to play the part?

-No, he... (mumbles) -And so, what...

Not until I auditioned.

Then when I auditioned and I came in,

and he was like... (imitates barking)

-(laughs) -Okay. And from that,

-did you guys maintain a relationship? Were you cool? -Yeah. Mm-hmm.

So that way, by the time you got to "Empire,"

and it-- And, you know, you go,

-"Yo, this is Terrence all day." -Yeah.

Terrence finds out. "Oh, my God.

"Taraji, she's on.

My girl relationship, chemistry, energy."

We get here. Lee gets there.

You put this piece to the puzzle together.

From the beginning stages-- here's my biggest question--

did you know this was a success?

Did you expect "Empire" to be what it was?

Like, you know, those TV...

TV shows that are really hit shows,

they don't come often.

-Yeah. -You don't get the ones that reach the global status often.

You guys reached global status.

-That was a monumental hit. -Yeah.

So, for you in the beginning stages,

did you know that, realize that,

when, you know, you guys are pilot and first season?

I knew it would be a hit domestically.

-Okay. Okay. -I wasn't expecting international.

Because I was told my entire career

that Black don't do well overseas.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Then I get overseas to Paris, of all places,

and 1,500 seats, standing room only.

It's "French-speaking" citizens.

They hid me in the audience.

There was a Q and A, Lee's on the stage,

and when they got to the Cookie questions,

he said, "Well, let's ask her."

-Ask her. -Here she is.

Listen to me.

The entire room stood to their feet and like this.

I stood on that stage and ugly-face cried

-in front of those people. -Shocked.

-Because they lied to me. -Yeah.

Then when I go outside,

they weren't greeting me as Cookie.

(in French accent): "Taraji. Taraji.

Taraji, can I please-- Please sign. Taraji."

-They knew who you were. -But they had jackets to all my movies.

-Mm. Mm. -"Baby Boy" included.

Even movies that hit b--

-Um, the one we did, "Not Easily Broken." -Mm-hmm.

This Parisian came out and was like,

"Please, Taraji. Sign, sign."

I said, "What? How you...?

This didn't even go to many theaters."

-But he had it there. -Mm-hmm.

They had it in China when I went.

It's like, so, somebody's been lying to me.

That's why I applaud you and I look up to you,

because you didn't listen.

-You said, "I'm-a do it myself." -Mm-hmm.

And you went abroad. You took your show abroad.

And that's what it takes. It takes, um--

for us especially, um...

This has always been our struggle.

-We're always fighting against everything. -Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

You know, trying to rise above that thumb

-that constantly stays on us, you know. -Mm-hmm.

And I just applaud you for that.

I'm just so proud of you, okay?

I know you-- I'm here to talk to you, but I'm-- You...

I'm so effing proud of you, you know.

And I feel like, I mean, I just watched the whole thing.

I just never forget-- We were on a plane going somewhere.

-People don't understand how-how we're connected, though. -Yeah.

-Right? They-they-- And they're not supposed to. -No, no, no.

They don't know the connective tissue between you and I.

But to give you a little background on it,

you know, "Not Easily Broken..."

-Mm-hmm. -That was a big deal for me.

-Me, too! -That was...

I-I know it was a big deal for you, but I'm saying,

-at that point in my career... -Mm-hmm.

-I needed substance. I needed... -Yep.

I needed movies that were "credible."

-Mm-hmm. -I needed credible actors and actresses

that I could stand alongside.

And I remember me and Morris,

you know, me and Morris were cool.

And he approached me about a project--

it was when I first met Clint Culpepper.

He was like, "Taraji, man. It's gonna be me and Taraji.

It's a big one." And I remember...

I remember my mindset about Taraji.

Oh, my God. This is dope.

Taraji's... She's about--

-It's-it's there. -(chuckles): Oh.

-And Morris was that guy. -Mm-hmm.

And I'm like, "This is great."

And that movie, for me,

it-it acted as a big step for me, mentally,

"Yeah, I'm doing the right thing."

"Think Like a Man," to me, was it.

Like, I was like, "Look at us."

I was just-- I sat back and was like, "Look at us."

You can't write a better...

you can't write a better story.

But the first one, you were still like on a...

-Was still coming up. -Coming up.

But then the second one, they was like,

"Um, Kevin gonna get paid more than everybody."

Okay. (laughs)

(chuckles) I was like,

"What this little motherfucker talking about?"

* *

* *

I want to talk to you now...

You know, you're-you're... you're in the-the world of,

uh, somm, can we get a...

(stammers) D, please.

I was trying to be subtle.

I told you T gonna run through two bottles.

-(laughs) -Goddamn it. Let me keep up.

And whatever-whatever we don't drink,

(whispering): just put it in my trailer.

-I got you. -All right. Thank you.

-He doesn't... -I'll take a little bit, too.

-A little? -No, I mean...

Well, it's-- nothing's a little bit in that big glass.

Well, this is the thing, I have a big glass,

because it's-- it looks-- Shut up, Taraji.

-(laughs) -Okay? Thank you. -Very welcome.

All right, just be quiet, uh...

let's talk about, you know, now.

So this-this monster of "Empire" has grown.

It's huge. Oh, my God. The show's a massive hit.

You guys are in season... you know, I-I don't know what.

Let's just say the height of it.

-Let's say mid-season three, and it's gone. -Mm-hmm.

Um, where are you at within your creative then?

Like, you were discussing getting behind the lens.

-Mm-hmm. -You were discussing projects that you were behind,

that you were developing. Did that happen then?

Like, did that spark the want to want to do it more?

-Or-or was it a little before? -Uh, yeah.

-'Cause I got-- Now I'm on the inside. -Mm-hmm.

-And now they listen to me. -Mm-hmm.

They hear me. I'm making changes in the script.

-Like, "This ain't gonna work." -Mm-hmm.

"You can't do that to Cookie.

"You-you already got people-- She's the hero.

If you do that, we're gonna lose the audience."

Like, I started doing that.

-I was like, "Hmm. I feel good about this." -Mm-hmm.

Then, um, directing producer Sanaa Hamri,

she started noticing what I was doing.

She said, "You know, you need to direct."

And I was like, "Eh, I don't-- Eh. Y'all don't sleep."

(laughs): "I need to go home and go to bed."

And she was like, "Okay, you know,

but I'm just saying. You got the eye."

You know, I kept getting it from the first AD, you know.

All kinds of stuff. So finally, sixth season.

And I was like, "If not now, when?"

Like, you know, I'm sure I'll do another television show,

but, like, who knows when that'll be.

And if I'm gonna direct and get my feet wet,

-I have to do it now. -Why not?

-I'm in love. -I'm protected. I'm in this...

-I want it. I want more. -Really?

I'm in the Directors Guild.

Why? Tell me, tell me what you love the most about it.

I love-- You know what, my favorite is casting,

'cause I have a eye.

I have an eye. I-I just do.

And I understand actors.

I think my most proudest moment was I was directing, um,

uh, one of the actors on our, on, um, "Empire"

from my episode, and it wasn't, like, a major role.

He was, like, a detective or a cop,

and I knew the look, you know, cops. Um...

This one guy came in, and he was out of breath.

He was like... (pants) And he looked all nervous.

His hands were shaking, and I knew he was nervous,

'cause I was in the room, and it's "Empire" and all the feels.

-Mm-hmm. -And I saw it, and I...

He started and-and it wasn't the best read the first time.

And I said, "Slow down."

I said, "W-Why are you breathing heavy?

What happened? What's wrong?"

Oh, my God, Kevin, you have bugs on your, on your...

-All right. -You have bugs.

-Okay. That's just... -Okay?

-Exterminator! I'm sorry. -Stop it. That's not...

(laughs)

He almost flew in my mouth. I almost gagged.

Okay. Anyway, so I go, "What happened?"

(chuckles) He has bugs.

I'm sorry. He has bugs.

-Um, I should have worn my mask. -Just stop. Okay.

Okay.

(takes deep breath)

-The cop, you told the cop. -(chuckles)

You wanted him to calm down. He's flustered.

I wanted-- He told me that he left his picture in the car,

and he ran back to the car. He didn't want to be late.

I said, (exhales) "Leave that alone.

"I don't even care about that.

I just want you to do your best. Start over."

-Mm-hmm. -He nailed it, and I hired him.

-You know how to communicate. -I just know...

You feel like your-your dialogue

with-with your actors and actresses is on point.

Because that's where you come from?

-'Cause you've done it? -Yeah, I just...

When you study theater, I have to build a set,

strike a set, direct, write a play,

-produce a play, direct a play. -Talk your shit, T. Talk your shit, T.

I mean, I have to learn how to do wigs, hair, makeup.

So it's like, you got to learn every aspect of it.

Oh, that's why I'm such a huge crew person.

That's when I come on sets, I speak to everybody,

because it's not-- We-we need a crew.

You know, a director is...

-That's-that's the captain of the ship. -Captain of the ship.

But, you know, you forget to tap into the understanding

-that the director understands everybody's job. -Everybody's job.

And everybody that's there is there

to better service the director.

-How do we help make your day... -Mm-hmm.

...as good as we possibly can?

And in return, how do I get you home early?

How do you do...? That's so good.

-For making my day good. -That's so good.

You know, so, that's be-- that's from theater, though.

Because I had to play every position.

So, I-I'm respectful of everybody's position.

I'm not the actress that gets on set

and try to change the dialogue because I don't know

-what the writer means. That's my job. -Mm-hmm.

My job is to figure out

why the character says it like this.

I know if I change the words, it'll be easier for me.

But that's not Taraji P. Henson.

-That's a whole 'nother character. -It's a character. Mm-hmm.

You know? And, um, those are the things that come with,

when you're trained, you know.

How many, how many episodes did you direct?

-Just one. -Just one?

-But I have a movie I'm about to direct. -Really?

-Yes. -Get out of here, T.

Direct, just-- Are you hired as the director,

-did you develop, produce it? -I'm hired as the director.

Um, it's a feature film, coming of age,

Black, "young girl," coming of age--

which I've never seen that.

-When I grew up, I had Molly Ringwald. -Okay.

And I identified with Molly because she was poor,

-and she came from a single-family home. -Mm-hmm.

But she was still white. (chuckles)

But I've never seen a coming of age

that looked like me.

-So here we come. -Congrats.

I'm so excited.

* *

* *

Do you feel like you've done all that you want to do

as far as being on-screen,

or there's still things left

-that you want to do? -There's still things left.

'Cause you-you've definitely checked

-a lot of boxes. I mean... -Mm-hmm.

And, by checked a lot of boxes, you've shown your range.

-Yeah. -You've shown that, you know,

TP is-is not just a one-note actress.

I'm not so edgy after all.

-Huh? Huh? -No, no, no, no.

-TP has levels. Levels... -Well, I am edgy,

but not in my work.

-Levels on levels. -Clean it up.

-Yeah, you know what I mean. -You are. Levels on--

-No. You absolutely are. -Uh, listen to him. Don't listen to me.

You're absolutely levels on levels.

Uh, and, I mean, look, that display...

Thank you, Kevin. I really appreciate that.

Well, I'm not just saying it to say it.

I'm saying it because I mean it.

Another question. How'd you feel about your Oscar nomination

for "Benjamin Button?"

I mean, when that hit,

that's a different ball game.

That throws you into a different stratosphere.

My nomination meant,

-I guess people were paying attention. -Mm-hmm.

I'm like, "Okay, they know who I am."

-Mm-hmm. -So...

In that category with the other actresses that were in it.

I mean, I was just, I was just so happy

that me and Viola was nominated together. I felt...

(stammers) It just felt good.

KEVIN: That's massive.

TARAJI: It felt good for me,

because I'm always thinking about the younger generation.

-Mm-hmm. -The imagery of that.

Because I grew up-- We always know one...

-Mm-hmm. It's very true. -...you know, one of us.

And it might be just one woman,

-and it might be just a man, you know? -That's very true.

So just the imagery of two,

that, to me, I was so proud.

-That's dope as hell. -Yeah.

You're-you're now a advocate for mental health.

-What does that mean, when you say you're an advocate? -Yes.

Like, what are you, what are you doing? What are you...?

Okay. So I have a, um, mental health organization

that I started called the Boris Lawrence Henson Foundation.

-Okay. -And it's named after my father,

who was a Vietnam vet who suffered from PTSD

and also manic depression.

Uh, bipolar.

I started the foundation because when I was looking

for a therapist, for myself and my son, it was hard.

-Mm-hmm. -Called my best friend,

who runs my foundation, Tracie Jenkins.

Oh, you never, you know, you never made that donation,

but we'll get back to that. So, anyway, um...

but I'm on your show, and I do everything you ask me to.

But that's okay, I'll get back to that.

-Shit. -So anyway, so I did the foundation.

-I remember calling you. I was in Chicago. -Goddamn it.

-Here we go. -And I said, "Hey, are you gonna give it?"

You were like, "Yeah, I'm-a give you all this..."

-Here we go. -This is how I handle it. This is how I handle it.

-And it never got handled. -Here we go. What did I--

How much did I say I was gonna give, T?

-What did I...? -100,000.

Why would you ask?

You better be glad I ain't say a million,

'cause I know you got it.

Taraji, whatever you need from me, you can have it.

-A million. No, I'm joking. -No.

-(laughing): He said "no." -No. No. (laughs)

I backpedaled, didn't I?

T, whatever you need. A million?

-No. I will not... -Okay. 100,000.

-I will give you $100,000. -Did you hear this?

-I'm saying it on the show. I can't go back. -Okay.

I made you double it, 'cause at first you said 50.

-But... Okay. -I-I can't go back. You have $100,000 from me.

It's for a good cause, though, Kevin.

-Seriously. -I'm telling you, you have $100,000 from me.

I'm dead serious.

But so I started it because I knew that...

I was having an issue trying to find a therapist.

I'm privileged. I have money.

-Imagine all the millions of people of color... -That don't...

...that can't-- But, not even don't, we don't talk about it.

Like, it's frowned upon in our, in our community,

in our culture, for some reason.

And I don't, I don't know why, uh,

-but it's-it's looked at as, "What? You in...?" -Weak.

-Weakness. Weakness. -"Come on. Come on. Get your, get your ass out...

What? You're doing...?" It's never...

it's never truly supported from the jump.

-Well... -It's never supported

from the beginning of the curiosity.

-It's deep for us. -Mm-hmm.

Uh, you're talking about over 400 years of oppression.

So you're talking about trauma

that Black people have learned to "normalize."

-Mm-hmm. -Okay? We've been doing it for over 400 years.

-Mm-hmm. -"Normalizing trauma."

I just found out that hush puppies,

hush puppies,

were actually used by runaway slaves

to keep the dogs off of them.

"Hush, puppies."

And we've normalized it.

See, these are things that we've normalized.

So imagine all the other things we've normalized.

-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. -Trying to be strong, push through.

The strength is in vulnerability.

The strength is in saying, "I'm not okay today."

That's the strength. The danger is trying to push through.

The danger is continuing to cope

with all of this compounded trauma

that we have ensued and continue to endure.

We just got another hashtag.

I mean, your kids aren't driving yet,

-but, Kevin, when they do... -Mm-hmm.

Your-- The fear that you will feel

every time your child leaves the house...

-Mm-hmm. -Because they're not gonna know

-that that's Kevin Hart's child. -Yeah.

-They're not, they're not protected at that point. -They don't know.

-You know what I'm saying? -Yeah. Yeah.

It's real fair. It's real-- You-you speak...

Constant state of trauma.

You speak no lies. I mean, it's-it's...

it's insane to hear you speak the way that you speak

because it's... it's eye-opening to me.

Look, I can't say it enough...

I love you.

-And, you know, I don't know if and when... -Okay. I'm sorry.

-I'm trying to be... -Okay. That's not-- Come on.

-I'm trying-- I-I... -It's just...

-It's one gnat. It's one gnat. -I-I love you. Okay.

I don't know. I think he has friends.

But it's not, it's not like it's a lot. Don't...

I-I'm trying to be serious,

-and every time the gnat is... -But it's not--

-It's one gnat. -And I don't want people to be like,

-"Why is she doing that? She's..." -It's one gnat,

and I'll kill it. Don't...

Okay. I'm sorry, Kevin.

I'm in the moment. I told you, I'm very in the moment.

Okay. Don't do that again.

-And I want to show people my shoes. -Stop it.

-Okay? Just stop. -(laughs)

You spoke, you spoke about theater.

And I'll say my last part again.

I meant what I said, just that I love you.

-And genuinely, I'm-I'm... -I love you, too, Kevin. You know that.

I want to make sure that...

I'm available, if ever needed.

Well, answer the fucking phone when I call.

-(chuckles) -Okay. Now, listen...

I call. I text.

I wasn't gonna put you on blast.

You, that's his camera? Look at me.

Okay. All right. That's not... Just look at your camera.

-Okay. I don't know. I like all cameras. -Get out of my camera.

Uh, you're right, though.

-And I will make sure of that, if and when. -(chuckles)

But-but...

-I do. -You do call-- Uh, let me stop.

-I do answer when you call. -'Cause he does, he does. He does. He does.

It's not like you call a lot, but if you do,

-I do answer. -(chuckles)

But that's why I don't call a lot.

'Cause you better answer when I call,

-because I don't call a lot. -I-I understand.

* *

* *

How are you with breaks after work?

-Are you a consistent...? -Yeah.

-Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. -Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

Let me tell you.

I almost died one year.

I did Cookie.

I did-- I left--

We finished Cookie for the season.

I went to do "Proud Mary" right away, which was action.

-Mm-hmm. -And then I went straight to Atlanta

to do another civil rights, uh, Ann Atwater.

So totally different...

I mean, Cookie,

a killer and a civil rights activist.

Then I had to go right back to Cookie.

-No break. -No break at all.

-I almost died. I was in the hospital. -Mentally draining, physical...

Eh. I wasn't taking care of myself and my stomach.

I had stomach issues. I was on my way to stomach cancer.

-What? -The doctor was like,

"If you don't stop doing what you're doing,

"you're gonna get stomach ulcers,

which is then gonna lead to stomach cancer."

My makeup artist, my hairdresser

and my security were in the hospital.

But they had to smuggle me in the hospital.

I passed out on set.

I was like, "I can't. I have to go."

-What? -It was bad.

I was eating up the lining of my stomach.

It was horrible. Horrible. Horrible, horrible.

-During which project? -It was all my life--

drinking coffee on an empty stomach, every morning.

You know, just things started catching up.

And, um...

I never called out for work.

I'm sure you haven't either, Kevin.

Nobody-nobody ever knew?

Did anybody-- does anybody know?

I talked about it on "Dr. Oz."

I was a little vocal about it.

'Cause I didn't want anybody to ever go through

what I went through, and so, um...

(chuckles): It is scary stuff, all that.

And I'll just never forget. I had to change everything.

I had--

And whatever the doctors were giving me wasn't working.

So I had to go to a holistic doctor.

And she ended up-- I literally was eating baby food.

I had lost so much weight.

There is a picture of me when I went to the NAACP.

You can see my bones right here.

I had lost-- I couldn't hold down water, Kevin.

Kevin, I was in Monte Carlo doing press for "Empire."

I was going...

In between interviews, I was throwing up.

I'm a workhorse, so I don't know how to stop.

And you know, our industry, you can't just call off.

-You can't just call off. -Goddamn.

So, I was in the bed with wires and everything.

And I remember coming to, and I was like,

I looked at the time, I was like, "I got to go to work."

And my makeup artist was like,

"If you don't lay your ass back down..."

And she went to get the doctor.

And the doctor had to come in there to say,

"You can't go to work."

I was thinking about my crew.

I was like, "No, no, the crew. We can't take off.

I don't have that kind of job." And he was like,

"You won't ever work again

if you don't take it easy on yourself."

So, you know, when this pandemic happened,

at first, I was like... (groans).

But then I was like,

-"Heed the message." Like, "You need it." -Sit down.

-I was not going to-- I don't know how to sit down. -Sit down.

-I'm listening. -Like...

-I'm not, I'm not-- I-I swear to you. -We're not getting any younger.

I got ten years on you, but still, like,

I'm telling you, this is when that,

all of that hard work will catch up.

-I swear to you. I'm listening. -Did you, were you...?

You the only person that didn't stop working

in the pandemic-- you and Octavia.

(laughs)

-I'm laughing, I'm laughing, -You know, I haven't acted in over a year?

-but it's-it's true, yeah. -But it's okay.

I-I know exactly where I am and why I am where I am.

I sit in front of you, across from you,

as a friend, as a brother,

but as a, as a, like, a real... a real, like,

a real fucking person in your life, right?

And this conversation today is a great one.

It's open dialogue, but it's one where I've learned

so much more about my sister-- things that I've known,

things that I didn't know, things that you went through

that I had no idea about.

But I get the message that you have...

you've basically delivered a message that...

-it wasn't the plan today. -Mm-mmm.

And it's one based off of the experiences.

But I knew what I was coming to say to you.

-I'm-I'm... I'm telling you now, I-I hear you. -(chuckles)

-Yeah. -I hear you. I love you.

I appreciate you.

-And this was everything it was supposed to be. -Yeah.

-Just take care of yourself, Kevin. Please. -I promise you.

-I promise you, I will. -Okay.

-Old dirty D.C. -(laughs)

Taraji P., I love you.

-I love you to death. -I love you more, baby.

Thank you so much for coming on, man.

-Taraji P... -When we gonna be in a movie together?

Hold up! Let me get him to say something else.

Stop. Keep it going.

-Don't nobody... -When are we doing a movie, Kevin?

-Guys, don't let her do this. This is what she does. -Kevin. Kevin!

-Yes, Taraji. -Wait, I want to go to Budapest.

Okay, Taraji. Well, you can't...

What's happening in Budapest? I'm going.

-Kevin, I'm coming. -No. No. You can't...

What if I popped up in Budapest like...

-(laughs) -You can't go to Budapest, okay?

-Why? -Because we're already doing that...

Did you hire a white woman?

No. Taraji, you can't say this.

We-- Edit that out.

-(upbeat music plays) -We'll-- Taraji, no.

(whispers): It's a action... I told you I'm...

(whispers): It's an action movie?

-I know how to do action, Kevin. -Oh, no, uh, don't do it.

Cut that out. Is she showing her stuff?

No! I got pants on!

Okay, don't let her do that.

-Blur that out. This is my show. -(laughs)

I'll protect you. I'll protect you

-on "Hart to Heart." -(laughing)

* *

Today's anecdote is very simple.

Life is like an ocean--

there's waves everywhere.

What I'm saying is, sit down in the chair,

unless you want to get bit.

(chuckles) Think about it.

Think about it. Huh? That's what I'm talking about.

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