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00:00:06,572 --> 00:00:10,377
[clock ticking]
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00:00:12,853 --> 00:00:17,853
Provided by explosiveskull
https://twitter.com/kaboomskull
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00:00:18,350 --> 00:00:22,288
[music]
4
00:00:22,321 --> 00:00:24,123
DAVID WOJNAROWICZ:
Testing one, two, three.
5
00:00:24,155 --> 00:00:26,091
Testing one, two.
6
00:00:26,125 --> 00:00:28,227
Testing, testing,
testing,
7
00:00:28,260 --> 00:00:31,798
testing, testing,
test, test, test.
8
00:00:44,844 --> 00:00:47,814
DAVID: We rise
to greet the State,
9
00:00:47,847 --> 00:00:50,450
to confront the State.
10
00:00:54,686 --> 00:00:59,125
When I was diagnosed
with this virus,
11
00:00:59,158 --> 00:01:00,759
it didn't take me long
to realize
12
00:01:00,792 --> 00:01:03,295
I'd contracted
a diseased society as well.
13
00:01:08,766 --> 00:01:10,435
[static sound]
14
00:01:10,468 --> 00:01:14,173
[music]
15
00:01:19,378 --> 00:01:21,114
DAVID: It could be construed
as critical,
16
00:01:21,147 --> 00:01:22,849
but if you're doing
a show of AIDS,
17
00:01:22,882 --> 00:01:24,784
there's absolutely no way
that you can separate
18
00:01:24,816 --> 00:01:26,551
politics from AIDS.
19
00:01:26,584 --> 00:01:27,719
TV REPORTER: For six years,
what's happening
20
00:01:27,753 --> 00:01:29,522
as we update our top stories.
21
00:01:29,555 --> 00:01:31,691
East Germany today
took down the Berlin Wall.
22
00:01:31,724 --> 00:01:33,593
DAVID: Bottom line
is I may be dying of AIDS
23
00:01:33,626 --> 00:01:35,228
in America in 1989.
24
00:01:35,260 --> 00:01:37,229
Isn't that political?
25
00:01:37,263 --> 00:01:39,132
I don't have health insurance
and that I don't have
26
00:01:39,165 --> 00:01:40,800
economic access
to adequate healthcare.
27
00:01:40,832 --> 00:01:42,868
Isn't that political?
28
00:01:42,902 --> 00:01:45,638
And to try to pretend
that the subject of AIDS
29
00:01:45,671 --> 00:01:50,343
cannot have a political tinge
to it is ridiculous.
30
00:01:50,376 --> 00:01:52,210
PHIL ZWICKLER: Who was that?
31
00:01:52,243 --> 00:01:54,180
DAVID: John McKenzie
is putting this up together
32
00:01:54,212 --> 00:01:56,681
for Peter something
of World News tonight.
33
00:01:56,715 --> 00:01:58,384
- Peter Jennings?
- Yeah.
34
00:01:58,417 --> 00:02:01,721
- You mean like national news?
- Yeah.
35
00:02:01,754 --> 00:02:04,823
Oh, shit. I didn't...
I should've had that recorded.
36
00:02:04,856 --> 00:02:06,391
PHIL: Are you recording
all of this today?
37
00:02:06,424 --> 00:02:07,593
- Yeah.
- You're gonna make art
38
00:02:07,626 --> 00:02:09,328
- out of it, huh?
- Yup.
39
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:10,829
TV REPORTER: Tonight,
a Manhattan art exhibit
40
00:02:10,862 --> 00:02:12,798
about AIDS is losing
a lot of federal money
41
00:02:12,830 --> 00:02:15,167
because of what will be shown
in the exhibit.
42
00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:16,902
TV REPORTER: The chairman
of the NEA states,
43
00:02:16,936 --> 00:02:18,938
"We find that a large portion
of the content
44
00:02:18,971 --> 00:02:21,807
is political rather than
artistic in nature."
45
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,776
Some of the content
includes criticism
46
00:02:23,808 --> 00:02:26,444
of Cardinal O'Connor,
Senator William Dannemeyer
47
00:02:26,478 --> 00:02:28,614
of California,
and Senator Jesse Helms
48
00:02:28,646 --> 00:02:31,483
for their support
of the new restrictive law.
49
00:02:31,516 --> 00:02:34,686
Thank you. This weather
is certainly no work of art.
50
00:02:34,719 --> 00:02:36,489
PHIL: So are you gonna do
Nightline tonight?
51
00:02:36,521 --> 00:02:39,724
Uh, I somehow just can't
see it. I mean, I...
52
00:02:39,758 --> 00:02:41,661
PHIL: Do you think you'd put on
a shirt if you did?
53
00:02:41,693 --> 00:02:42,894
DAVID: Well, that's what
I was thinking of already,
54
00:02:42,927 --> 00:02:44,697
my wardrobe.
55
00:02:44,729 --> 00:02:48,600
I mean, I... if I did,
I might wear a ski mask
56
00:02:48,633 --> 00:02:50,835
and I'll, you know,
57
00:02:50,868 --> 00:02:53,639
carry a bucket of gasoline.
58
00:02:53,671 --> 00:02:56,408
TERRY: From Philadelphia,
I'm Terry Gross with Fresh Air.
59
00:02:58,509 --> 00:03:00,378
The art
of David Wojnarowicz
60
00:03:00,412 --> 00:03:02,682
has recently been
at the center of controversy
61
00:03:02,715 --> 00:03:06,885
because the subject matter
deals with sexuality and AIDS.
62
00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,820
Let's talk about
how you started making art.
63
00:03:08,854 --> 00:03:11,257
Now, you came from a really
rough family background.
64
00:03:11,289 --> 00:03:12,959
Your father abused your mother.
65
00:03:12,991 --> 00:03:14,926
You ended up in an orphanage
for a while.
66
00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,629
Then your father kidnapped you
from the orphanage.
67
00:03:17,663 --> 00:03:19,731
And you've written
that you later threw yourself
68
00:03:19,764 --> 00:03:22,334
into sex and you became
a hustler for a while.
69
00:03:22,367 --> 00:03:23,969
How did you start
making art?
70
00:03:24,002 --> 00:03:26,538
[music]
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00:03:29,508 --> 00:03:31,711
DAVID: Whatever work I've done,
it's always been informed
72
00:03:31,743 --> 00:03:35,281
by what I experienced
as an American in this country,
73
00:03:35,313 --> 00:03:37,483
as a homosexual
in this country,
74
00:03:37,515 --> 00:03:40,652
as a person who's legislated
into silence in this country.
75
00:03:40,686 --> 00:03:43,990
One, two, three, four,
civil rights or civil war?
76
00:03:44,022 --> 00:03:46,324
I'm not gonna be polite,
and fuck these people
77
00:03:46,358 --> 00:03:48,294
that want me
to be courageous.
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00:03:48,326 --> 00:03:50,862
There's no expression
in that other than silence.
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00:03:50,895 --> 00:03:53,265
As each T cell
disappears from my body,
80
00:03:53,299 --> 00:03:57,436
it's replaced by 10 pounds
of pressure, 10 pounds of rage.
81
00:03:57,468 --> 00:03:59,337
I tried very hard to be normal
82
00:03:59,371 --> 00:04:01,307
and tried very hard
to be accepted.
83
00:04:01,340 --> 00:04:03,542
On some level,
it's a terrific waste of time.
84
00:04:03,574 --> 00:04:05,543
[static sound]
85
00:04:05,576 --> 00:04:07,280
- MAN: Wojnarowicz?
- MAN: Wojnarowicz.
86
00:04:07,312 --> 00:04:08,446
- MAN: Wojnarowicz.
- MAN: Wojnarowicz.
87
00:04:08,479 --> 00:04:10,917
DAVID: Fuck you faggot fucker.
88
00:04:12,050 --> 00:04:14,586
[music]
89
00:04:18,423 --> 00:04:19,959
STEVEN WOJNAROWICZ:
David was two years younger
90
00:04:19,992 --> 00:04:22,962
than me, and Pat
was sort of the big girl.
91
00:04:22,995 --> 00:04:26,465
I don't remember him
ever aspiring to do art,
92
00:04:26,497 --> 00:04:28,067
or to be a doctor,
or a lawyer,
93
00:04:28,100 --> 00:04:29,769
or anything else.
94
00:04:29,802 --> 00:04:31,470
I think we were probably
too consumed
95
00:04:31,502 --> 00:04:33,538
with trying to survive
in any given moment
96
00:04:33,572 --> 00:04:37,343
than to be worried about
what was going down the road.
97
00:04:37,375 --> 00:04:39,644
Dave and I
used to go out in the woods.
98
00:04:39,677 --> 00:04:41,747
We'd get away from my father.
99
00:04:41,779 --> 00:04:44,716
He was horrific
when he was drunk.
100
00:04:44,750 --> 00:04:46,519
DAVID: I grew up in a tiny
version of hell
101
00:04:46,552 --> 00:04:48,354
called the suburbs.
102
00:04:48,387 --> 00:04:50,488
I had a father who brutalized
both his first and second wives
103
00:04:50,521 --> 00:04:52,358
with physical violence.
104
00:04:52,391 --> 00:04:54,093
Any signs of life
in the family he supported
105
00:04:54,125 --> 00:04:56,628
with his paycheck
from his job as a sailor
106
00:04:56,661 --> 00:04:58,563
was met with extreme violence.
107
00:04:58,596 --> 00:05:00,699
In the universe of the forest,
108
00:05:00,733 --> 00:05:02,500
I didn't think of what it felt
like as a five or six-year-old
109
00:05:02,533 --> 00:05:04,103
being dragged
down a basement stair,
110
00:05:04,136 --> 00:05:06,739
to have my head and body
hit with a dog chain
111
00:05:06,771 --> 00:05:08,940
or a sawed-off chunk of 2x4.
112
00:05:08,973 --> 00:05:12,944
In my home, one cannot laugh,
one cannot express boredom,
113
00:05:12,978 --> 00:05:16,749
one cannot cry, one cannot
play, one cannot explore,
114
00:05:16,781 --> 00:05:18,616
one cannot engage
in any activity
115
00:05:18,649 --> 00:05:21,586
that showed development
or growth that was independent.
116
00:05:21,620 --> 00:05:23,956
[music]
117
00:05:33,165 --> 00:05:35,367
CYNTHIA CARR:
This life on the streets
118
00:05:35,401 --> 00:05:39,504
got really rough and David
ended up in a halfway house.
119
00:05:39,538 --> 00:05:43,042
He had not graduated
from high school at that point.
120
00:05:43,074 --> 00:05:44,843
When he finally went back
to school
121
00:05:44,877 --> 00:05:47,612
was when he discovered
Rimbaud and Genet.
122
00:05:47,646 --> 00:05:50,816
They both
are outlaws and rebels.
123
00:05:50,848 --> 00:05:54,954
and he always identified
with outsiders his whole life
124
00:05:54,987 --> 00:05:59,391
and these
were the outsider writers.
125
00:05:59,425 --> 00:06:02,929
[cassette recorder clicking]
126
00:06:04,730 --> 00:06:07,633
DAVID: Testing tape journal,
one, two, three.
127
00:06:07,665 --> 00:06:10,002
[music]
128
00:06:14,173 --> 00:06:17,910
[train chugging]
129
00:06:21,846 --> 00:06:23,415
DAVID: So, it looks like
we ended up
130
00:06:23,449 --> 00:06:26,419
in Jamestown, North Dakota.
131
00:06:26,451 --> 00:06:29,422
That's the halfway mark
between east and west.
132
00:06:29,454 --> 00:06:31,757
[music]
133
00:06:34,759 --> 00:06:37,495
DAVID: Feels like something
out of an old west picture,
134
00:06:37,528 --> 00:06:40,699
dusty roads
and old board buildings,
135
00:06:40,732 --> 00:06:43,169
little family houses
all around you,
136
00:06:43,201 --> 00:06:48,007
great stretches of sky,
long lines of trains.
137
00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,043
The tracks, when you look
at them, just shimmer.
138
00:06:51,076 --> 00:06:54,447
It looks like thousands of
little animals running across.
139
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,016
Then there's the constant
flapping of bird wings
140
00:06:57,048 --> 00:07:00,786
like [makes sound].
141
00:07:03,788 --> 00:07:06,591
Occasionally, you hear a train
whistling miles away,
142
00:07:06,625 --> 00:07:10,495
but the trains
never seem to get here.
143
00:07:10,528 --> 00:07:14,065
[static sound]
144
00:07:16,935 --> 00:07:19,771
- [cassette tape clicking]
- [dog barking]
145
00:07:19,805 --> 00:07:23,042
DAVID: That was doggie French
for, "Hi, pinheads."
146
00:07:23,074 --> 00:07:25,043
I'm just sitting here
in my sister's apartment
147
00:07:25,076 --> 00:07:27,045
using her tape recorder,
trying to figure out
148
00:07:27,079 --> 00:07:28,980
what the hell to say.
149
00:07:29,014 --> 00:07:33,651
[music]
150
00:07:33,685 --> 00:07:35,987
DAVID: As far as publishing,
forget it.
151
00:07:36,021 --> 00:07:38,157
The last woman
that I sent the manuscript to,
152
00:07:38,189 --> 00:07:40,992
this woman in Black Sun,
Le Soleil Noir,
153
00:07:41,026 --> 00:07:43,062
called me up like after a month
and told me
154
00:07:43,095 --> 00:07:45,564
she wanted to return
my manuscript.
155
00:07:45,596 --> 00:07:47,233
You know, she said that
the people in the monologues
156
00:07:47,266 --> 00:07:49,535
are wasted lives
and it was a waste of time
157
00:07:49,567 --> 00:07:51,036
to write about them.
158
00:07:51,069 --> 00:07:52,905
I mean, everything she said
159
00:07:52,937 --> 00:07:56,241
just reinforced my belief
of its importance.
160
00:07:56,274 --> 00:07:58,911
It's like that. I mean,
it's like the galleries, too.
161
00:07:58,944 --> 00:08:01,180
The stuff that I work on
takes so long to do
162
00:08:01,213 --> 00:08:03,115
that the price
that I'd have to ask
163
00:08:03,148 --> 00:08:05,751
if I was gonna make a living
off is just too much
164
00:08:05,783 --> 00:08:07,552
especially
since her tastes gravitate
165
00:08:07,586 --> 00:08:10,990
towards Woolworthian prints.
166
00:08:11,023 --> 00:08:12,858
I've been having,
like, just tons and tons
167
00:08:12,891 --> 00:08:17,263
of dreams of America
and American road and highways.
168
00:08:17,295 --> 00:08:19,865
I really miss
the energy in New York.
169
00:08:19,898 --> 00:08:22,935
Paris gives you a sense
of strange security,
170
00:08:22,968 --> 00:08:24,870
which does make me happy.
171
00:08:24,903 --> 00:08:26,838
So, I guess
I'll say goodbye here.
172
00:08:26,872 --> 00:08:32,043
[speaking French]
173
00:08:32,076 --> 00:08:33,578
Bye-bye.
174
00:08:35,246 --> 00:08:39,817
[airplane engine revving]
175
00:08:39,850 --> 00:08:41,953
[camera shutter clicking]
176
00:08:41,986 --> 00:08:44,122
[police siren wailing]
177
00:08:44,155 --> 00:08:46,791
- [water gushing]
- [indistinct chatter]
178
00:08:46,825 --> 00:08:48,794
[girl screams]
179
00:08:48,826 --> 00:08:50,296
[crowd chatter]
180
00:08:50,328 --> 00:08:51,996
[horn honking]
181
00:08:52,029 --> 00:08:53,698
[bell chiming]
182
00:08:53,731 --> 00:08:55,668
[engine revving]
183
00:08:55,701 --> 00:08:57,135
[camera shutter]
184
00:08:57,168 --> 00:08:59,904
DAVID: I was doing a series
of photographs
185
00:08:59,937 --> 00:09:01,973
of Arthur Rimbaud
in New York.
186
00:09:02,006 --> 00:09:03,875
[music]
187
00:09:03,908 --> 00:09:05,811
DAVID: I got a job
in an ad agency
188
00:09:05,844 --> 00:09:07,580
for all of
two and a half weeks,
189
00:09:07,613 --> 00:09:09,081
operating a stat machine.
190
00:09:09,114 --> 00:09:10,883
Then I ended up
doing all my own work.
191
00:09:10,916 --> 00:09:14,654
[music]
192
00:09:16,955 --> 00:09:20,359
DAVID: I statted this face of
Arthur Rimbaud, blew it up,
193
00:09:20,392 --> 00:09:24,830
and made a flat mask,
I'm riding subways
194
00:09:24,863 --> 00:09:26,899
wandering all through
the warehouses,
195
00:09:26,932 --> 00:09:28,967
hustling in Times Square.
196
00:09:31,269 --> 00:09:33,238
DAVID KIEHL:
David was taking Rimbaud
197
00:09:33,270 --> 00:09:36,274
through what was his world
in New York.
198
00:09:36,307 --> 00:09:38,210
[music]
199
00:09:38,243 --> 00:09:40,613
MAN: [indistinct]
Come on, man. Come on.
200
00:09:40,645 --> 00:09:42,046
DAVID: I grew up as a hustler.
201
00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,083
I grew up hustling
in Times Square
202
00:09:44,115 --> 00:09:47,251
and all sorts of places
all around New York.
203
00:09:47,284 --> 00:09:49,721
Men of all different
descriptions.
204
00:09:55,259 --> 00:09:56,596
[police siren wailing]
205
00:10:07,905 --> 00:10:09,807
By the time I got
off the streets
206
00:10:09,841 --> 00:10:12,977
when I was about 17 or 18,
I had to turn to making things
207
00:10:13,010 --> 00:10:15,813
because I basically
could never find a place
208
00:10:15,846 --> 00:10:19,150
to ever express
what I had experienced.
209
00:10:19,183 --> 00:10:21,153
I remember one of
the most emotional experiences
210
00:10:21,186 --> 00:10:24,956
was one day being picked up
by this guy who was very creepy
211
00:10:24,990 --> 00:10:27,326
and I remember lying
on this dirty bed.
212
00:10:27,359 --> 00:10:29,061
It was one of these
cheap hotels.
213
00:10:29,094 --> 00:10:31,897
And this guy
was sucking my dick,
214
00:10:31,929 --> 00:10:34,298
his mouth was sticky,
and that he would kiss my leg
215
00:10:34,331 --> 00:10:36,031
and there would be
like this gummy
216
00:10:36,033 --> 00:10:38,003
kind of stuff on my leg.
217
00:10:38,035 --> 00:10:40,338
And it was all this stuff
that I was really repulsed by
218
00:10:40,371 --> 00:10:42,674
and not enough to not have
a hard on.
219
00:10:42,707 --> 00:10:44,142
I remember feeling all this
220
00:10:44,176 --> 00:10:45,277
incredible emotion
for this guy.
221
00:10:45,309 --> 00:10:47,078
I just felt so sad for him.
222
00:10:47,111 --> 00:10:49,014
At some point, I, like,
reached under his arms,
223
00:10:49,047 --> 00:10:51,417
and pulled him up to me,
and kissed him on the mouth,
224
00:10:51,450 --> 00:10:53,919
which is the thing
that I least wanted to do.
225
00:10:53,951 --> 00:10:56,154
He started weeping
and just said,
226
00:10:56,187 --> 00:10:58,756
"Nobody's ever done that."
And ended up giving me
227
00:10:58,789 --> 00:11:01,959
extra money, whatever,
which I was quite happy with.
228
00:11:01,993 --> 00:11:03,663
[police siren wailing]
229
00:11:10,201 --> 00:11:11,937
[crowd chatter]
230
00:11:11,970 --> 00:11:13,038
DAVID: It's like a whole
experience
231
00:11:13,071 --> 00:11:15,074
living on the streets
232
00:11:15,106 --> 00:11:17,308
when I ran away from home
of feeling the world's setup
233
00:11:17,341 --> 00:11:21,980
in such a way that it seems
that I'm constantly working
234
00:11:22,013 --> 00:11:25,484
against it
rather than alongside.
235
00:11:25,517 --> 00:11:28,821
[thunder rumbling]
236
00:11:28,854 --> 00:11:30,422
DAVID: Most guys that I meet,
237
00:11:30,455 --> 00:11:32,357
their lives are just
so completely different.
238
00:11:32,389 --> 00:11:34,460
You know,
there's no real communication
239
00:11:34,493 --> 00:11:37,329
where I can feel totally free
in expressing my ideas
240
00:11:37,361 --> 00:11:40,498
or my desires
or my experiences.
241
00:11:40,532 --> 00:11:42,868
My experience
as a hustler seems to be
242
00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:45,003
one thing that sits
on the back of my shoulder.
243
00:11:47,038 --> 00:11:48,941
[horn honking]
244
00:11:48,974 --> 00:11:50,943
FRAN LEBOWITZ: One thing that's
incredibly hard to convey
245
00:11:50,975 --> 00:11:54,312
to people is the level
of promiscuity of that era.
246
00:11:54,346 --> 00:11:56,014
This is something
that's really hard
247
00:11:56,047 --> 00:11:57,349
to describe to people
who are younger.
248
00:11:57,381 --> 00:11:59,417
We thought sex
was good for you.
249
00:11:59,451 --> 00:12:01,920
That what was bad for you
is not having sex.
250
00:12:01,952 --> 00:12:04,155
And then what was bad for you
is repression of sexuality,
251
00:12:04,188 --> 00:12:06,024
that was bad.
252
00:12:06,057 --> 00:12:08,894
This is before AIDS or before
we were aware of AIDS.
253
00:12:08,927 --> 00:12:10,995
[firework explosion]
254
00:12:11,028 --> 00:12:12,397
[man screams]
255
00:12:12,429 --> 00:12:14,031
[police siren wailing]
256
00:12:14,065 --> 00:12:16,100
[indistinct chatter]
257
00:12:16,134 --> 00:12:17,836
RICHARD KERN: I grew up
in North Carolina.
258
00:12:17,869 --> 00:12:20,072
And when I first moved
to the East Village...
259
00:12:20,105 --> 00:12:21,974
MAN: Smoke, smoke.
260
00:12:22,006 --> 00:12:23,941
RICHARD: ...it was cliche things
you see in the movies
261
00:12:23,975 --> 00:12:28,213
of drug-dealing places,
dealers standing around
262
00:12:28,245 --> 00:12:31,115
selling coke and dope,
coke and dope, C&D, C&D.
263
00:12:31,149 --> 00:12:32,918
[gunshot]
264
00:12:32,951 --> 00:12:34,519
[glass breaks]
265
00:12:34,552 --> 00:12:36,955
MAN: - real slow, brother.
I said real slow.
266
00:12:36,988 --> 00:12:38,891
- I'll sell that bullshit.
- MAN: That is bullshit.
267
00:12:38,923 --> 00:12:40,358
CARLO MCCORMICK: People forget
how much the rest
268
00:12:40,392 --> 00:12:42,361
of America hated New York.
269
00:12:42,394 --> 00:12:44,797
We were a bunch of junkies
and cocksuckers
270
00:12:44,830 --> 00:12:47,099
as far as America
was concerned, and, you know,
271
00:12:47,131 --> 00:12:48,866
there's a real sense
of culture decline.
272
00:12:48,899 --> 00:12:51,470
[music]
273
00:12:51,503 --> 00:12:53,405
CARLO: There had been
this huge shift
274
00:12:53,437 --> 00:12:56,441
between the kind of idealisms
of the '60s
275
00:12:56,474 --> 00:12:58,310
and the first
Civil Rights Movement,
276
00:12:58,342 --> 00:13:00,111
the anti-war movement.
277
00:13:00,144 --> 00:13:03,215
All these things
had derailed by the mid-70s.
278
00:13:03,248 --> 00:13:06,252
And so we were responding
to that in different ways.
279
00:13:09,421 --> 00:13:13,492
[crickets chirping]
280
00:13:13,524 --> 00:13:15,927
DAVID: I walked up to the park,
and the streets
281
00:13:15,961 --> 00:13:20,832
were completely empty,
and traffic was nonexistent.
282
00:13:20,865 --> 00:13:24,569
I had opened up my pants
283
00:13:24,602 --> 00:13:26,572
and I walked up
and down the pathways,
284
00:13:26,605 --> 00:13:29,074
and there's just, like,
this really quiet
285
00:13:29,106 --> 00:13:31,876
sort of loneliness there.
286
00:13:31,909 --> 00:13:33,377
I mean, I felt like
I was, like,
287
00:13:33,410 --> 00:13:35,480
you know, back where
I'd started from.
288
00:13:37,615 --> 00:13:39,350
I've been filled
with this sense
289
00:13:39,384 --> 00:13:43,622
of, uh, of anxiousness,
290
00:13:43,654 --> 00:13:47,592
and the fact that I'm 26,
I'm thinking about myself
291
00:13:47,625 --> 00:13:51,096
and my values, my actions,
and thinking about the effect
292
00:13:51,129 --> 00:13:53,498
of people on people,
wondering if any
293
00:13:53,530 --> 00:13:56,968
of it's meaningful,
if it's futile,
294
00:13:57,001 --> 00:13:59,503
trying to figure out what it is
that my life is,
295
00:13:59,537 --> 00:14:01,407
and where I've been going.
296
00:14:05,043 --> 00:14:07,144
MAN: This is a man
whose time has come,
297
00:14:07,177 --> 00:14:09,981
a man whose principles
have been familiar to Americans
298
00:14:10,014 --> 00:14:12,516
for 30 years,
a man whose accomplishments
299
00:14:12,549 --> 00:14:14,519
make him the natural choice
300
00:14:14,552 --> 00:14:17,122
for president
of the United States.
301
00:14:17,154 --> 00:14:21,326
RONALD REAGAN: We will make
America great again.
302
00:14:21,359 --> 00:14:22,494
Thank you very much.
303
00:14:22,527 --> 00:14:25,129
[applause]
304
00:14:25,163 --> 00:14:28,634
DAVID: Reagan, as the president
of this country now,
305
00:14:28,667 --> 00:14:31,570
going through a time in my life
that seems desperate,
306
00:14:31,602 --> 00:14:36,107
surreal, awful, and slightly
wondrous all simultaneously.
307
00:14:38,677 --> 00:14:42,247
Met a fellow a month
or so ago, Peter Hujar,
308
00:14:42,279 --> 00:14:45,384
photographer who,
in some interesting ways,
309
00:14:45,417 --> 00:14:49,153
is like a mirror
of scenes I'm entering.
310
00:14:49,187 --> 00:14:54,993
He has the same desperate
and at times confused outlook,
311
00:14:55,025 --> 00:14:58,496
but minus the one seed
of hope that I have in me.
312
00:14:58,529 --> 00:15:02,268
[music]
313
00:15:04,970 --> 00:15:08,273
STEPHEN KOCH: The relationship
between Peter and David
314
00:15:08,306 --> 00:15:12,009
is one of the most
interesting relationships
315
00:15:12,043 --> 00:15:16,048
between artists
in a very long time.
316
00:15:16,081 --> 00:15:19,518
More interesting
than van Gogh and Gauguin,
317
00:15:19,551 --> 00:15:22,687
very, very special
and unique.
318
00:15:22,721 --> 00:15:25,123
[music]
319
00:15:25,155 --> 00:15:27,591
CYNTHIA: When Peter
started his career
320
00:15:27,625 --> 00:15:29,961
as a photographer
in the '50s,
321
00:15:29,995 --> 00:15:32,630
it was not considered
a real art form.
322
00:15:32,663 --> 00:15:35,299
His photographs
were mostly portraits,
323
00:15:35,332 --> 00:15:37,302
mostly of people he knew,
but he did know
324
00:15:37,335 --> 00:15:39,403
some rather famous people,
you know.
325
00:15:39,437 --> 00:15:43,108
He's truly an artist,
but Peter was very difficult,
326
00:15:43,140 --> 00:15:44,575
and in terms
of having a career,
327
00:15:44,609 --> 00:15:47,112
he was not very good at it.
328
00:15:47,144 --> 00:15:49,648
FRAN:
These works were very small.
329
00:15:49,681 --> 00:15:51,550
The New York Art World
fit in one restaurant.
330
00:15:51,582 --> 00:15:53,184
One restaurant, okay?
331
00:15:53,217 --> 00:15:55,252
I heard of Peter
before I met him.
332
00:15:55,285 --> 00:15:56,988
The number of people
who would have heard of Peter,
333
00:15:57,022 --> 00:15:58,991
you know, 12?
334
00:15:59,024 --> 00:16:01,493
MAN: He may have been a saint
on Avenue A,
335
00:16:01,525 --> 00:16:04,228
but it was underground fame.
336
00:16:04,261 --> 00:16:07,431
He did not have
that standing in the quote,
337
00:16:07,465 --> 00:16:11,302
"real art world."
He was stranded.
338
00:16:11,336 --> 00:16:14,339
Nothing was going nowhere.
339
00:16:14,371 --> 00:16:17,341
PETER HUJAR: Howdy-do,
howdy-do.
340
00:16:17,375 --> 00:16:20,044
This is Hujarino again.
341
00:16:20,077 --> 00:16:23,481
I was wondering if David
Steamed Vegetable was there?
342
00:16:23,514 --> 00:16:27,052
This is Peter Fast Juice.
343
00:16:27,085 --> 00:16:29,388
[cars honk]
344
00:16:32,389 --> 00:16:34,158
DAVID: Peter last night
in the bar when I told him
345
00:16:34,192 --> 00:16:36,028
about doing a portfolio
and throwing out
346
00:16:36,061 --> 00:16:37,461
all the drawings
that I thought were
347
00:16:37,495 --> 00:16:39,464
aggressive or upsetting
348
00:16:39,496 --> 00:16:42,033
told me not to throw out
any drawings.
349
00:16:42,067 --> 00:16:45,070
No matter what my taste is
and what my ideas are,
350
00:16:45,102 --> 00:16:47,038
if I feel it's good,
there will be somebody
351
00:16:47,072 --> 00:16:48,673
who will pick up on it,
352
00:16:48,706 --> 00:16:50,609
I shouldn't start compromising
353
00:16:50,642 --> 00:16:53,479
and trying to adapt
to other people's taste.
354
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,283
And last night, I was standing
around here 5:00,
355
00:16:59,317 --> 00:17:02,453
6:00 in the morning,
looking through the portfolio,
356
00:17:02,486 --> 00:17:05,790
looking at my photographs.
357
00:17:05,824 --> 00:17:08,060
I was really startled,
it was like the first time
358
00:17:08,093 --> 00:17:09,661
that I sat down
and really looked at them
359
00:17:09,693 --> 00:17:12,297
in ages since I did them.
360
00:17:12,329 --> 00:17:16,233
And I realized
that they are good.
361
00:17:16,267 --> 00:17:18,470
And there's absolutely
no reason for me
362
00:17:18,502 --> 00:17:22,840
to deny them or throw them
away, they're my life.
363
00:17:22,874 --> 00:17:26,178
And I don't owe it to anybody
to distort that
364
00:17:26,211 --> 00:17:28,313
just for their comfort.
365
00:17:28,346 --> 00:17:33,317
CARLO: I think that everything
David thought an artist could
366
00:17:33,351 --> 00:17:37,389
and should be was embodied
by Peter.
367
00:17:37,422 --> 00:17:40,826
And Peter was the purest
of the lot.
368
00:17:43,394 --> 00:17:45,596
[seagulls gawking]
369
00:17:45,630 --> 00:17:49,267
[music]
370
00:17:49,299 --> 00:17:53,137
STEVEN: Peter had tremendous
respect for anyone else
371
00:17:53,171 --> 00:17:57,509
who had that same drive,
called them "those people."
372
00:17:57,541 --> 00:18:01,679
And "those people"
were special.
373
00:18:01,712 --> 00:18:05,149
He was a tough judge.
374
00:18:05,182 --> 00:18:09,621
And when he discovered David,
he realized he's one of them.
375
00:18:09,653 --> 00:18:12,356
This guy is one of them.
376
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:15,193
He's talented in a chaotic way.
377
00:18:15,226 --> 00:18:19,798
And Peter saw right away
both the talent and the chaos.
378
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:22,399
[music]
379
00:18:22,432 --> 00:18:24,402
[car honks]
380
00:18:24,434 --> 00:18:26,637
FRAN: When Peter first met David
and talked about him,
381
00:18:26,671 --> 00:18:29,374
I paid zero attention to Peter
about this. Zero.
382
00:18:29,406 --> 00:18:31,275
I don't pay that much attention
to people I was sleeping with,
383
00:18:31,308 --> 00:18:32,844
I don't know
why I should pay attention
384
00:18:32,876 --> 00:18:34,645
to people that Peter
was sleeping with.
385
00:18:34,679 --> 00:18:36,648
I was under the impression
that he was a teenager
386
00:18:36,681 --> 00:18:38,583
because he had that band
called, like,
387
00:18:38,615 --> 00:18:41,353
4 Teens Kill 3
or 3 Teens Kill 4,
388
00:18:41,385 --> 00:18:42,854
which, of course,
I've never heard of.
389
00:18:42,886 --> 00:18:43,988
3 TEENS KILL 4:
♪ Give me all your bibles ♪
390
00:18:44,021 --> 00:18:45,856
♪ Give me all your money,
give me all your bibles ♪
391
00:18:45,890 --> 00:18:47,392
♪ Give me all your money ♪
392
00:18:47,424 --> 00:18:49,394
JESSE HULTBERG:
The story about 3 Teens
393
00:18:49,426 --> 00:18:51,228
playing for the first time,
it has to do with Danceteria
394
00:18:51,261 --> 00:18:53,932
being shut down for not having
a liquor license.
395
00:18:53,964 --> 00:18:55,766
David and I were busboys
at Danceteria.
396
00:18:55,799 --> 00:18:57,469
We worked together.
397
00:18:57,501 --> 00:18:59,738
It was an interesting crowd
of people.
398
00:18:59,770 --> 00:19:01,772
Keith Haring
was a busboy there too,
399
00:19:01,806 --> 00:19:04,476
and Madonna was hanging out.
400
00:19:04,509 --> 00:19:07,245
BRIAN BUTTERICK: They advertised
having a full bar
401
00:19:07,278 --> 00:19:08,880
until 8:00 in the morning.
402
00:19:08,913 --> 00:19:13,384
In the time, mind you,
totally a mob operation.
403
00:19:13,417 --> 00:19:15,186
3 TEENS KILL 4:
♪ This is a hold up, hold up ♪
404
00:19:15,220 --> 00:19:18,789
♪ hold up, hold up - ♪
405
00:19:18,823 --> 00:19:21,360
[siren blaring]
406
00:19:24,394 --> 00:19:27,432
BRIAN: We were raided,
and a bunch of us went to jail.
407
00:19:27,464 --> 00:19:29,533
David escaped.
408
00:19:29,567 --> 00:19:32,770
And then he had concocted
a Molotov cocktail,
409
00:19:32,804 --> 00:19:35,807
somehow he was gonna blow up
the police vehicle.
410
00:19:35,839 --> 00:19:38,376
[music]
411
00:19:41,412 --> 00:19:43,215
BRIAN: But he couldn't
figure out how to do it
412
00:19:43,248 --> 00:19:45,951
without, you know,
hurting people.
413
00:19:45,983 --> 00:19:48,252
JESSE: We spent the night
in jail
414
00:19:48,286 --> 00:19:52,457
and then glamorized that event,
you know, we put on a show.
415
00:19:52,490 --> 00:19:55,626
BRIAN: Now, I don't know
why we felt we needed a benefit
416
00:19:55,660 --> 00:19:59,864
for funds because the mob
paid for fucking lawyers
417
00:19:59,896 --> 00:20:03,968
who got our cases dismissed.
418
00:20:04,001 --> 00:20:05,669
[music]
419
00:20:05,702 --> 00:20:07,638
MAN: Jerry?
420
00:20:07,672 --> 00:20:10,642
A little more volume
on the drums.
421
00:20:10,674 --> 00:20:12,476
BRIAN: And anyway,
we had a benefit
422
00:20:12,509 --> 00:20:14,913
so we threw together a band,
3 Teens Kill 4.
423
00:20:14,945 --> 00:20:17,381
MAN: Uno, dos, tres, quatro.
424
00:20:17,414 --> 00:20:23,754
♪ Hear the man whisper,
see the man twistin' ♪
425
00:20:23,788 --> 00:20:25,690
♪ Louie, Louie, Louie,
Louie, Louie ♪
426
00:20:25,722 --> 00:20:28,893
♪ Louie, Louie, Louie,
Louie [indistinct] ♪
427
00:20:28,925 --> 00:20:31,028
BRIAN: Then after we played
the first gig,
428
00:20:31,061 --> 00:20:34,531
Jesse and I and David
wanted to continue it.
429
00:20:34,565 --> 00:20:37,269
JULIE HAIR: I knew
their drummer had fallen out.
430
00:20:37,301 --> 00:20:39,303
I went and bought
a rhythm machine
431
00:20:39,336 --> 00:20:41,006
because I didn't know
how to play anything.
432
00:20:41,038 --> 00:20:42,706
I thought,
"Well, I can push buttons,
433
00:20:42,740 --> 00:20:44,709
so I did that."
434
00:20:44,741 --> 00:20:46,010
JESSE: I don't think any of us
were very proficient,
435
00:20:46,044 --> 00:20:47,912
but it wasn't really the point.
436
00:20:47,944 --> 00:20:50,347
It was an effort to not
really necessarily make music,
437
00:20:50,381 --> 00:20:53,718
but to have a film almost
for your ears.
438
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:56,288
[music]
439
00:20:59,490 --> 00:21:01,859
JESSE: We ended up calling it
the Cacophonic Barrage.
440
00:21:01,893 --> 00:21:03,761
[boat honks]
441
00:21:03,795 --> 00:21:05,462
JESSE: As opposed to music.
442
00:21:05,496 --> 00:21:07,499
JULIE: We were really ahead
of our time
443
00:21:07,531 --> 00:21:10,434
with the use of samples, and
that was David's instrument.
444
00:21:10,468 --> 00:21:13,371
CARLO: David would come up
to a mic with his handheld
445
00:21:13,403 --> 00:21:15,807
tape recorder and blast sounds.
446
00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:17,509
MAN: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
447
00:21:17,541 --> 00:21:20,711
Yes. Because the guns
and the grenade,
448
00:21:20,744 --> 00:21:23,048
are great equalizers.
It used to be said
449
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,084
that a revolver
made all men six feet tall.
450
00:21:27,117 --> 00:21:28,886
JULIE: I heard a rumor
that Frank Zappa
451
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,389
was in the audience one time
when we played,
452
00:21:31,422 --> 00:21:35,326
and he said that we used
the tapes like lead guitar,
453
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:36,994
which I thought
was a great comment.
454
00:21:37,028 --> 00:21:39,931
REVEREND JIMMY SWAGGART:
There was a time in America,
455
00:21:39,963 --> 00:21:44,568
that if a, "glory hole"
appears,
456
00:21:44,602 --> 00:21:45,937
the police would throw them
457
00:21:45,970 --> 00:21:50,775
in jail on morals charges.
458
00:21:50,807 --> 00:21:53,644
Limp-wristed sissies.
459
00:21:53,678 --> 00:21:57,082
[music]
460
00:21:57,115 --> 00:21:59,683
JULIE: David wasn't really
of the art world.
461
00:21:59,717 --> 00:22:02,086
At that point in time,
he was just an individual
462
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,821
that was doing his thing.
463
00:22:03,855 --> 00:22:07,092
He used to come over
to my house to make art
464
00:22:07,125 --> 00:22:11,128
because there was more room
in my house than in his house,
465
00:22:11,162 --> 00:22:14,031
which is funny, because I had
a tiny East Village apartment
466
00:22:14,065 --> 00:22:17,369
with a bathtub in the kitchen,
and a toilet in the hallway.
467
00:22:17,402 --> 00:22:19,136
We would get on the floor
and make stencils,
468
00:22:19,170 --> 00:22:21,139
and posters for the band.
469
00:22:21,172 --> 00:22:25,943
[music]
470
00:22:25,977 --> 00:22:28,446
DAVID: We made 12 posters,
put them up in the street,
471
00:22:28,479 --> 00:22:32,650
most of them are ripped down
immediately.
472
00:22:32,682 --> 00:22:34,786
So we started thinking
about more permanent things,
473
00:22:34,818 --> 00:22:38,623
so I started going out
in the street.
474
00:22:38,655 --> 00:22:42,126
I would put up images around
Astor Place along 8th Street.
475
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,696
[music]
476
00:22:47,999 --> 00:22:49,500
DAVID: But I didn't
have any intention
477
00:22:49,534 --> 00:22:51,636
of being a street artist.
478
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:54,472
I was just being provocative.
479
00:22:54,505 --> 00:22:56,875
MAN: Ready on the firing line.
480
00:22:56,907 --> 00:22:58,642
DAVID: One night,
I went downtown,
481
00:22:58,675 --> 00:23:01,545
did every gallery door
I could find with images
482
00:23:01,578 --> 00:23:07,519
of the burning house,
the plane, and the figure.
483
00:23:07,551 --> 00:23:11,522
It was an aggressive thing.
484
00:23:11,556 --> 00:23:15,460
This idea of New York City
streets filled with soldiers,
485
00:23:15,492 --> 00:23:17,595
that kind of tense atmosphere.
486
00:23:17,627 --> 00:23:19,997
MAN: Halt, left flank, halt.
487
00:23:20,030 --> 00:23:21,899
[plane whirring]
488
00:23:21,932 --> 00:23:23,835
[gunshot]
489
00:23:23,867 --> 00:23:27,771
[music]
490
00:23:27,805 --> 00:23:29,606
CARLO: I was just a rabid fan
of David.
491
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,009
He was pretty obscure
at that time.
492
00:23:32,042 --> 00:23:35,846
But I knew about the piece him
and Julie Hair did
493
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,216
on the Leo Castelli building,
494
00:23:38,249 --> 00:23:40,852
the shrine to contemporary art
at that time.
495
00:23:40,884 --> 00:23:42,921
DAVID: Julie and I wanted to do
a series
496
00:23:42,953 --> 00:23:45,589
of action installations,
which were basically
497
00:23:45,623 --> 00:23:47,692
uninvited installations.
498
00:23:47,724 --> 00:23:51,862
We wanted to open up
what culture was to us
499
00:23:51,895 --> 00:23:56,533
as opposed to what was handled
by rich white people.
500
00:23:56,567 --> 00:24:00,038
JULIE: I don't really remember
any planning stages of this,
501
00:24:00,070 --> 00:24:03,640
but we went to the west side
502
00:24:03,673 --> 00:24:06,043
where all the butchers were.
503
00:24:06,076 --> 00:24:07,945
FRAN: The Meatpacking District,
which used to be
504
00:24:07,979 --> 00:24:10,949
a meat packing district,
you would never wanna go there
505
00:24:10,981 --> 00:24:12,850
because of the smell of blood
506
00:24:12,884 --> 00:24:15,819
from the actually butchering
and packing meat.
507
00:24:15,853 --> 00:24:18,722
JULIE: There were big cans
outside of the butchers'
508
00:24:18,756 --> 00:24:20,992
with giant cow bones in them.
509
00:24:21,025 --> 00:24:22,961
So, we got a bunch of bones,
510
00:24:22,993 --> 00:24:25,230
we put them
in this little wagon.
511
00:24:25,262 --> 00:24:27,164
DAVID: We brought
a couple hundred pounds
512
00:24:27,198 --> 00:24:31,903
of bloody cow bones,
dumped them into the staircase.
513
00:24:31,935 --> 00:24:35,005
Did a stencil painting with
spray paint of the empty plate,
514
00:24:35,038 --> 00:24:35,973
a knife, and a fork.
515
00:24:36,007 --> 00:24:37,542
MAN: Left, right, halt.
516
00:24:37,575 --> 00:24:38,977
DAVID:
And then military bombers,
517
00:24:39,009 --> 00:24:40,545
houses, and planes,
518
00:24:40,577 --> 00:24:42,212
and figures
recoiling on the wall,
519
00:24:42,246 --> 00:24:43,948
and then left.
520
00:24:43,980 --> 00:24:45,650
CARLO: They stenciled
the despair of New York
521
00:24:45,682 --> 00:24:47,251
at that time,
and then they poured gallons
522
00:24:47,285 --> 00:24:50,153
and gallons of cow's blood
down the stairs.
523
00:24:50,186 --> 00:24:53,690
DAVID: Nobody seemed to think
anything was amiss.
524
00:24:53,723 --> 00:24:56,760
They had thought it was just
part of the art world.
525
00:24:56,794 --> 00:24:59,531
[music]
526
00:24:59,564 --> 00:25:02,534
MAN: Left, right, halt.
527
00:25:02,567 --> 00:25:07,005
[music]
528
00:25:07,038 --> 00:25:08,573
DAVID: Six months later,
529
00:25:08,605 --> 00:25:11,108
I was still doing stuff
on the street.
530
00:25:11,142 --> 00:25:12,277
That's when somebody
approached me
531
00:25:12,309 --> 00:25:13,977
from one of the galleries,
532
00:25:14,010 --> 00:25:15,646
asked me if I wanted to put
a painting
533
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,882
in one of the shows,
so I said sure.
534
00:25:17,914 --> 00:25:20,218
[music]
535
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,589
CYNTHIA: David ends up
in a show with people
536
00:25:24,622 --> 00:25:26,891
like Julian Schnabel
and David Hockney,
537
00:25:26,923 --> 00:25:28,292
and lots of people
who were famous.
538
00:25:28,326 --> 00:25:31,863
He was completely unknown.
539
00:25:31,895 --> 00:25:33,998
[siren blaring]
540
00:25:34,030 --> 00:25:35,832
ALAN BARROWS: A lot of artists
were doing graffiti
541
00:25:35,865 --> 00:25:38,702
in the East Village.
Keith Haring and Basquiat,
542
00:25:38,736 --> 00:25:40,672
and David was doing it.
543
00:25:40,704 --> 00:25:42,874
SUR RODNEY SUR: There were
no resources like now
544
00:25:42,906 --> 00:25:44,608
where you can go down
to the Lower East Side
545
00:25:44,642 --> 00:25:46,644
and there's like a dozen
young galleries
546
00:25:46,676 --> 00:25:48,312
you've never heard
of that are showing stuff.
547
00:25:48,346 --> 00:25:50,213
There was nothing.
548
00:25:50,247 --> 00:25:53,351
There was SoHo,
and there was Uptown,
549
00:25:53,384 --> 00:25:56,320
and there were
these established galleries.
550
00:25:56,354 --> 00:25:59,023
We didn't feel
we had any entree into there
551
00:25:59,056 --> 00:26:02,226
so we created space so we could
show our work and have fun.
552
00:26:02,259 --> 00:26:04,662
[music]
553
00:26:04,694 --> 00:26:07,197
ALAN: Dean Savard and I
started the gallery
554
00:26:07,230 --> 00:26:11,269
through a series
of one-night parties.
555
00:26:11,301 --> 00:26:14,638
There was no real intention
of making any money.
556
00:26:14,672 --> 00:26:16,673
We would put the art up
for one night,
557
00:26:16,707 --> 00:26:19,243
we'd invite friends,
we'd sat around on the floor
558
00:26:19,276 --> 00:26:22,314
drinking beer and smoking pot,
talking about art.
559
00:26:24,682 --> 00:26:26,250
GRACIE MANSION: When my gallery
first started,
560
00:26:26,282 --> 00:26:29,753
I had gotten I think
$200 back from my taxes.
561
00:26:29,787 --> 00:26:32,056
And I thought, oh,
let's have a party.
562
00:26:32,088 --> 00:26:34,024
I had photographs
in my bathroom
563
00:26:34,057 --> 00:26:36,394
and my bathroom was a toilet
and three walls
564
00:26:36,426 --> 00:26:38,228
because
the bathtub was in the kitchen.
565
00:26:43,299 --> 00:26:46,937
Never did I think that anybody
would show up after the party.
566
00:26:46,971 --> 00:26:48,705
ALAN: Eventually,
we decided that, oh,
567
00:26:48,739 --> 00:26:51,042
we'll leave the art up
for a little longer.
568
00:26:51,075 --> 00:26:55,813
We were really drawn to David's
militaristic imagery.
569
00:26:55,846 --> 00:26:58,650
We decided that we would
put him into a group show.
570
00:27:01,986 --> 00:27:05,823
We put this really
large painting that David did.
571
00:27:05,855 --> 00:27:09,894
It was one of the most unusual
things I had seen an artist do,
572
00:27:09,926 --> 00:27:13,063
expressing what was going on
around us at the time,
573
00:27:13,096 --> 00:27:15,400
where mankind stood
at that point
574
00:27:15,432 --> 00:27:18,702
where self-annihilation
could occur.
575
00:27:18,736 --> 00:27:21,072
We were actually trying
to sell the work.
576
00:27:21,105 --> 00:27:22,973
I'm trying to remember
how much we were asking for it.
577
00:27:23,007 --> 00:27:26,009
I think probably around $5,000.
578
00:27:26,042 --> 00:27:28,111
Of course we didn't sell it
because nobody was coming
579
00:27:28,144 --> 00:27:32,250
into the gallery with that kind
of money back then.
580
00:27:32,282 --> 00:27:33,950
SUR: The interesting thing
about the East Village though,
581
00:27:33,983 --> 00:27:35,720
when there were artists
that were really
582
00:27:35,752 --> 00:27:38,455
kind of special,
everybody knew about it
583
00:27:38,489 --> 00:27:40,290
or there'd be this buzz
about it.
584
00:27:40,324 --> 00:27:42,125
So, there was a little bit
of buzz about David.
585
00:27:42,159 --> 00:27:43,928
GRACIE: He had that book,
Sounds in the Distance,
586
00:27:43,961 --> 00:27:45,430
which came out.
587
00:27:45,462 --> 00:27:47,030
And I was so impressed
because on the back
588
00:27:47,064 --> 00:27:48,865
it had a blurb
by William Burroughs.
589
00:27:48,898 --> 00:27:51,368
And I was like, oh, my God,
this artist
590
00:27:51,402 --> 00:27:53,938
must be really incredible
because William Burroughs
591
00:27:53,971 --> 00:27:56,307
wrote something about it.
592
00:27:56,339 --> 00:28:00,110
When we did the Famous Show,
which was in '82,
593
00:28:00,144 --> 00:28:03,047
we were looking for portraits
of famous people
594
00:28:03,079 --> 00:28:05,348
by famous
and soon to be famous artists.
595
00:28:05,382 --> 00:28:08,186
David brought in this painting,
Peter Hujar
596
00:28:08,219 --> 00:28:11,221
Dreaming about Yukio Mishima
in Saint Sebastian
597
00:28:11,255 --> 00:28:12,957
at the last minute
after everything
598
00:28:12,990 --> 00:28:14,325
was already up on the wall.
599
00:28:14,357 --> 00:28:16,426
- SUR: Typical.
- GRACIE: Typical.
600
00:28:16,460 --> 00:28:17,961
SUR: There was like no space
601
00:28:17,994 --> 00:28:19,129
because there were
so many people
602
00:28:19,163 --> 00:28:20,998
and he had a really big piece.
603
00:28:21,030 --> 00:28:22,165
So, where are you gonna put
a really big piece?
604
00:28:22,199 --> 00:28:23,835
You hang it from the ceiling.
605
00:28:23,867 --> 00:28:25,769
GRACIE: That's why
I love this photograph
606
00:28:25,803 --> 00:28:28,172
of the opening where you can't
really see any of the art
607
00:28:28,204 --> 00:28:31,141
but you can see David's piece
because it's on the ceiling.
608
00:28:31,174 --> 00:28:33,810
[laughs]
609
00:28:33,844 --> 00:28:35,813
DAVID: The early images
were all very simple imagines.
610
00:28:35,846 --> 00:28:37,248
But I just wanted
to record things
611
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,149
that I didn't see
people recording
612
00:28:39,182 --> 00:28:41,519
and painting at that time.
613
00:28:41,551 --> 00:28:44,421
You know, I wanted to record
my own history
614
00:28:44,454 --> 00:28:46,990
or different history.
615
00:28:47,023 --> 00:28:49,392
And that's what painting
originally was for me.
616
00:28:49,425 --> 00:28:52,329
All the paintings are diaries
that I always thought
617
00:28:52,363 --> 00:28:55,166
as proof of my own existence.
618
00:28:55,199 --> 00:28:58,937
[music]
619
00:29:03,207 --> 00:29:05,409
MAN: Welcome 3 Teens Kill 4.
620
00:29:05,442 --> 00:29:09,346
[cheers and applause]
621
00:29:09,380 --> 00:29:11,048
MAN: Official
from the Reagan White House
622
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:12,783
confirmed a short time later
623
00:29:12,817 --> 00:29:14,285
that the President
had indeed been shot.
624
00:29:14,317 --> 00:29:17,821
The President was shot
once in the left chest.
625
00:29:17,855 --> 00:29:20,391
The bullet
entered from the left side.
626
00:29:20,423 --> 00:29:22,259
He is in stable condition.
627
00:29:22,292 --> 00:29:23,927
Mrs. Reagan
rushed to the hospital
628
00:29:23,961 --> 00:29:25,363
and the President
jokingly told her,
629
00:29:25,395 --> 00:29:27,831
"Honey, I forgot to duck."
630
00:29:27,865 --> 00:29:29,800
DOUG BRESSLER: It could be
misconstrued
631
00:29:29,834 --> 00:29:32,937
that one is celebrating
Reagan's assassination attempt.
632
00:29:32,970 --> 00:29:34,572
It's media critique.
633
00:29:34,605 --> 00:29:36,374
MAN: He was wheeled
into surgery and he quipped
634
00:29:36,406 --> 00:29:38,542
to his doctors, "I hope
you're all republicans."
635
00:29:43,513 --> 00:29:45,115
♪ We are
non-essential laborers ♪
636
00:29:45,148 --> 00:29:47,050
♪ Laborers, laborers ♪
637
00:29:47,084 --> 00:29:49,053
MAN: 3 Teens Kill 4
had a song called Hunger
638
00:29:49,086 --> 00:29:52,455
which was about the underclass
and disparity
639
00:29:52,489 --> 00:29:54,225
of wealth in this country.
640
00:29:54,258 --> 00:29:55,593
♪ I see these things
every day ♪
641
00:29:55,625 --> 00:29:57,327
3 TEENS KILL 4:
♪ Every day, every day ♪
642
00:29:57,361 --> 00:29:59,130
♪ Television candidates
with singular vision ♪
643
00:29:59,163 --> 00:30:00,498
3 TEENS KILL 4: ♪ Vision,
vision, vision, vision ♪
644
00:30:00,530 --> 00:30:02,232
♪ Grey images
of freezing homes ♪
645
00:30:02,266 --> 00:30:03,601
3 TEENS KILL 4:
♪ Homes, homes, homes, homes ♪
646
00:30:03,634 --> 00:30:05,303
♪ People combing through
garbage reefs ♪
647
00:30:05,336 --> 00:30:06,604
3 TEENS KILL 4: ♪ Garbage reefs,
garbage reefs ♪
648
00:30:06,636 --> 00:30:08,371
♪ So we continue,
so we consume ♪
649
00:30:08,404 --> 00:30:09,973
3 TEENS KILL 4: ♪ So we
continue, so we consume ♪
650
00:30:10,007 --> 00:30:11,442
♪ So we continue,
so we consume ♪
651
00:30:11,474 --> 00:30:14,077
3 TEENS KILL 4: ♪ So we
continue, so we consume ♪
652
00:30:14,111 --> 00:30:16,514
DAVID: Last night,
I ran into Brian and Jesse,
653
00:30:16,547 --> 00:30:18,348
discovered them to be
in a big discussion
654
00:30:18,382 --> 00:30:23,120
about the politics of clubs
and politics of bands.
655
00:30:23,153 --> 00:30:26,257
I just did not wanna
hear it.
656
00:30:26,289 --> 00:30:28,091
When you're trying to do
a fucking job
657
00:30:28,125 --> 00:30:30,094
and support yourself
and be able to do things
658
00:30:30,126 --> 00:30:33,463
that you feel
are really important.
659
00:30:33,497 --> 00:30:35,032
JESSE: There were lots
of different reasons
660
00:30:35,065 --> 00:30:36,901
why he wanted to leave
the band.
661
00:30:36,933 --> 00:30:38,603
He wanted to do painting.
662
00:30:38,635 --> 00:30:40,503
He wanted to have more control
over what he was doing.
663
00:30:40,537 --> 00:30:42,606
I remember having an argument
with David.
664
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,609
He said to me,
"I can't really be friends
665
00:30:44,642 --> 00:30:47,577
with someone who doesn't like
what I do artistically."
666
00:30:47,611 --> 00:30:49,380
I said, "Well, David.
667
00:30:49,413 --> 00:30:51,214
There's a lot of your art
that I don't like
668
00:30:51,248 --> 00:30:53,284
and there's a lot of that anger
that I don't relate to
669
00:30:53,317 --> 00:30:55,452
and don't necessarily
wanna collaborate with."
670
00:30:59,923 --> 00:31:01,325
DAVID: Hi.
This is Helen of Troy
671
00:31:01,357 --> 00:31:03,627
calling from Poughkeepsie.
672
00:31:03,661 --> 00:31:06,464
Oh, I got you on that one.
Ha-ha. Good-bye.
673
00:31:06,497 --> 00:31:10,235
[music]
674
00:31:15,204 --> 00:31:16,273
PETER: Hi. This is Hujar.
675
00:31:21,311 --> 00:31:23,313
- PETER: Bye.
- DIRK ROWNTREE: David
676
00:31:23,346 --> 00:31:27,684
came over to our place
early one morning.
677
00:31:27,718 --> 00:31:30,521
He said, "You guys
got to come to this huge pier
678
00:31:30,554 --> 00:31:34,158
with all these walls
and there's nobody there."
679
00:31:34,191 --> 00:31:37,560
We had to slip
under a chain-link fence,
680
00:31:37,594 --> 00:31:42,232
got into the building,
and it was a really impressive,
681
00:31:42,266 --> 00:31:46,070
remarkable space,
for years had been abandoned
682
00:31:46,103 --> 00:31:48,640
like a couple football fields
in size.
683
00:31:50,606 --> 00:31:53,109
The idea was for artists
684
00:31:53,143 --> 00:31:56,079
to make work there
surreptitiously.
685
00:31:56,113 --> 00:31:59,283
It was very adventurous
and illegal.
686
00:31:59,316 --> 00:32:00,951
CARLO: And that was very much
connected
687
00:32:00,984 --> 00:32:03,453
to David's knowledge
of the piers
688
00:32:03,487 --> 00:32:07,258
as a place for sexual tryst
and that whole subculture
689
00:32:07,290 --> 00:32:10,260
around it and in a way
they kind of spoiled that spot.
690
00:32:10,294 --> 00:32:12,229
And no one could go there
for their acts anymore
691
00:32:12,261 --> 00:32:15,198
because there were too many
people traipsing through.
692
00:32:15,231 --> 00:32:19,202
KIKI SMITH: The ground floor
was thousands of square feet
693
00:32:19,236 --> 00:32:21,405
with very high ceilings.
694
00:32:21,438 --> 00:32:23,607
And upstairs there were rooms.
695
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,609
David and I found
696
00:32:25,642 --> 00:32:29,948
piles of discarded files
697
00:32:33,049 --> 00:32:36,319
and psychological evaluations
from Bellevue.
698
00:32:36,353 --> 00:32:39,289
[music]
699
00:32:41,191 --> 00:32:43,461
KIKI: They had them draw
pictures of men and women
700
00:32:43,493 --> 00:32:46,329
and, yeah, most were
very, very loose, you know.
701
00:32:46,363 --> 00:32:48,065
It's like how you drew
702
00:32:48,097 --> 00:32:50,032
in elementary school
or something like that.
703
00:32:50,034 --> 00:32:52,370
And then others were sort of
more you would say like
704
00:32:52,403 --> 00:32:54,471
in quote "sophisticated,"
or this or that.
705
00:32:54,505 --> 00:32:57,174
But they were very emotional
706
00:32:57,207 --> 00:33:00,478
and had a great deal
of resonance in them.
707
00:33:00,510 --> 00:33:02,178
Hi. David, this is Kiki.
708
00:33:02,211 --> 00:33:03,713
I think you've got my squeegee
709
00:33:03,747 --> 00:33:06,116
for silkscreening
and I need it.
710
00:33:06,150 --> 00:33:07,651
Okay. Bye-bye.
711
00:33:07,683 --> 00:33:09,686
So, I was doing
a lot of silkscreening then
712
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,623
and I taught him
how to make silkscreens.
713
00:33:15,159 --> 00:33:17,395
So we decided
to use these images
714
00:33:17,428 --> 00:33:20,031
and make a collaboration.
715
00:33:26,804 --> 00:33:29,040
MARION SCEMAMA:
The first time I met David,
716
00:33:29,073 --> 00:33:32,343
it wasn't physically.
717
00:33:32,375 --> 00:33:36,748
It was more mind to mind,
like vibration.
718
00:33:38,714 --> 00:33:40,518
It was summer '83.
719
00:33:40,550 --> 00:33:43,287
I wasn't involved
in the art scene.
720
00:33:43,319 --> 00:33:45,755
But one day,
there's a French photographer
721
00:33:45,788 --> 00:33:50,094
who came to visit New York
and he said,
722
00:33:50,126 --> 00:33:52,062
"Did you hear about
the abandoned pier
723
00:33:52,096 --> 00:33:53,596
where all these artists go
724
00:33:53,630 --> 00:33:55,533
and paint on the walls
and do things?"
725
00:33:55,566 --> 00:33:57,067
And I said, "No."
726
00:34:00,471 --> 00:34:03,140
He took me there.
727
00:34:03,173 --> 00:34:05,576
I fell in love with that place,
you know.
728
00:34:05,608 --> 00:34:10,713
It was like
so deathly romantic.
729
00:34:10,746 --> 00:34:14,417
One day, somebody told me
the story of this artist,
730
00:34:14,451 --> 00:34:17,554
David Wojnarowicz,
who opened the place.
731
00:34:17,588 --> 00:34:21,492
And I remember right away
I had a crush on this guy.
732
00:34:21,525 --> 00:34:24,762
I thought this guy
must really be great, you know,
733
00:34:24,795 --> 00:34:26,563
to open a place like that,
734
00:34:26,597 --> 00:34:31,168
to call people to come
and collaborate and paint.
735
00:34:31,201 --> 00:34:34,271
For me, he was already
somebody special.
736
00:34:36,139 --> 00:34:38,174
CARLO: In the end, you know,
hundreds of artists
737
00:34:38,208 --> 00:34:40,811
were doing things there
and French fashion magazines
738
00:34:40,844 --> 00:34:43,114
were doing shoots in there.
739
00:34:43,146 --> 00:34:45,650
ANDREAS STERZING:
It got so big that police came.
740
00:34:47,885 --> 00:34:51,122
They closed it down.
741
00:34:51,155 --> 00:34:54,525
The whole magic was lost.
742
00:34:54,557 --> 00:34:58,128
They started tearing it down
743
00:34:58,161 --> 00:35:00,763
and I have a picture
of the Gagging Cow of David's
744
00:35:00,797 --> 00:35:03,201
while the pier
is being pulled down.
745
00:35:05,434 --> 00:35:10,574
And then the pier disappeared
into the river and was gone.
746
00:35:12,509 --> 00:35:16,347
I think the East Village scene
exploded at the same time.
747
00:35:16,380 --> 00:35:18,215
ALAN: It wasn't until David had
748
00:35:18,248 --> 00:35:20,550
his first solo exhibition
for us
749
00:35:20,583 --> 00:35:23,153
that everything broke loose.
750
00:35:23,186 --> 00:35:25,221
The first exhibition
was very interesting
751
00:35:25,255 --> 00:35:26,690
in a sense
that it was something
752
00:35:26,722 --> 00:35:28,558
nobody had really seen before,
753
00:35:28,592 --> 00:35:30,461
painting things
that weren't really intended
754
00:35:30,494 --> 00:35:32,296
to be painted on.
755
00:35:32,329 --> 00:35:35,332
He'd stencil images
over supermarket posters,
756
00:35:35,364 --> 00:35:38,334
trashcan lids, driftwood.
757
00:35:38,367 --> 00:35:40,503
Everything was about
something that was found
758
00:35:40,536 --> 00:35:42,672
and didn't cost anything
because, again,
759
00:35:42,706 --> 00:35:44,341
nobody had any money.
760
00:35:44,373 --> 00:35:47,177
It was that exhibition
that Grace Glueck,
761
00:35:47,210 --> 00:35:50,446
the New York Times art critic
rode up on her bicycle,
762
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:51,615
started looking
at the artwork,
763
00:35:51,648 --> 00:35:53,550
asking us about the artist
764
00:35:53,583 --> 00:35:57,221
and asked for a photograph
of one of David's pieces.
765
00:35:57,253 --> 00:36:00,723
DAVID: Grace Glueck showed up,
and it was really a joke to us
766
00:36:00,757 --> 00:36:02,425
that she wanted
to write something.
767
00:36:02,458 --> 00:36:04,594
And so for us,
it was very tongue-in-cheek,
768
00:36:04,628 --> 00:36:06,797
you know, did the very
serious interviews.
769
00:36:06,829 --> 00:36:08,364
And she went around
to other galleries
770
00:36:08,398 --> 00:36:10,367
like Gracie's
and suddenly boom.
771
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,637
ALAN: An article appeared
in the Sunday Lifestyle section
772
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:15,539
of the New York Times.
773
00:36:15,572 --> 00:36:17,240
It talked about the galleries
in the East Village,
774
00:36:17,273 --> 00:36:18,641
David's artwork.
775
00:36:18,675 --> 00:36:20,244
It was after
that the collectors
776
00:36:20,277 --> 00:36:23,780
really started coming down.
777
00:36:23,813 --> 00:36:28,251
This limousine pulls up
in front of our little gritty
778
00:36:28,284 --> 00:36:30,587
drug-infested street.
779
00:36:30,621 --> 00:36:33,257
Robert Pincus-Witten, who was
an art critic in New York,
780
00:36:33,289 --> 00:36:34,992
and a very elegant woman,
781
00:36:35,025 --> 00:36:36,594
comes into the gallery.
782
00:36:36,626 --> 00:36:38,795
They looked at
each piece, examining.
783
00:36:38,829 --> 00:36:41,231
Robert's whispering
in her ear.
784
00:36:41,264 --> 00:36:44,335
Soon after he said,
"We'll take this one,
785
00:36:44,367 --> 00:36:45,802
this one, this one,
and this one.
786
00:36:45,835 --> 00:36:47,437
We'll take that one
over there."
787
00:36:47,471 --> 00:36:48,871
And it was like, oh, my God.
788
00:36:48,905 --> 00:36:50,874
I practically
ran over to The Pyramid
789
00:36:50,907 --> 00:36:53,443
and David and Dean
were having a beer.
790
00:36:53,476 --> 00:36:55,712
I said, "Oh, my God.
We sold so much work."
791
00:36:55,746 --> 00:36:58,414
It was such a euphoric feeling.
792
00:36:58,447 --> 00:37:00,317
CARLO: All of a sudden,
the art worlds gave
793
00:37:00,349 --> 00:37:03,487
this East Village scene
its 15 minutes fame.
794
00:37:03,519 --> 00:37:04,655
Our neighborhood
now all of a sudden
795
00:37:04,688 --> 00:37:06,490
had 60 galleries in it
796
00:37:06,523 --> 00:37:09,327
and that people were coming
by in limousines.
797
00:37:10,626 --> 00:37:11,996
ALAN: "Fuck You Faggot Fucker."
798
00:37:12,028 --> 00:37:13,963
We were going
around the gallery
799
00:37:13,996 --> 00:37:17,835
putting the names on these
little stickers on the wall.
800
00:37:17,867 --> 00:37:19,570
"And what's the name
of this one?"
801
00:37:19,603 --> 00:37:21,606
And David said,
"Fuck You Faggot Fucker."
802
00:37:23,639 --> 00:37:26,777
It's a piece of torn paper
that David found on the street
803
00:37:26,809 --> 00:37:30,280
that somebody had written
this homophobic slur on.
804
00:37:30,313 --> 00:37:33,283
And I said,
"David, that's so offensive.
805
00:37:33,317 --> 00:37:35,019
Do we have to call it that?"
806
00:37:35,052 --> 00:37:37,855
David was like, "That's
the name, it's gonna stick."
807
00:37:37,887 --> 00:37:39,656
BARRY BLINDERMAN:
"Fuck Faggot Fucker."
808
00:37:39,690 --> 00:37:41,659
I walked in and the painting
just riveted me.
809
00:37:41,692 --> 00:37:44,927
It's two boys kissing
over a map.
810
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:46,829
And then on the four corners,
811
00:37:46,862 --> 00:37:50,400
there is Brian Butterick
posing as Saint Sebastian
812
00:37:50,434 --> 00:37:54,471
and there was David
posing in the Christodora.
813
00:37:54,503 --> 00:37:56,706
I said,
"I'll give you $3,000."
814
00:37:56,739 --> 00:37:58,442
And he said, "Sure."
815
00:37:58,474 --> 00:38:00,810
Back then 1984,
that was a lot of money.
816
00:38:00,844 --> 00:38:04,548
But it's been a prized
possession since then.
817
00:38:04,581 --> 00:38:05,749
MARISSA:
Hi, David. It's Marissa.
818
00:38:05,782 --> 00:38:07,418
Prison Rape is back.
819
00:38:07,451 --> 00:38:09,519
It just walked in the door
from Montreal.
820
00:38:09,552 --> 00:38:11,688
So could you come and pick
it up as soon as possible?
821
00:38:11,722 --> 00:38:13,824
Thank you. Bye-bye.
822
00:38:13,856 --> 00:38:16,527
MAN: I think a lot of the reason
David is important now
823
00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:19,362
is because people recognized
824
00:38:19,396 --> 00:38:21,731
emergent queer sensibility
in David.
825
00:38:21,764 --> 00:38:23,900
"I'm not gay
as in I love you.
826
00:38:23,934 --> 00:38:27,705
I'm queer as in fuck off."
827
00:38:27,737 --> 00:38:31,841
MARION: Everything I did
with David was collaboration.
828
00:38:31,875 --> 00:38:35,713
But the concept of it
has always been David.
829
00:38:35,746 --> 00:38:40,818
He proposed to make a poster
about being queer in America.
830
00:38:40,851 --> 00:38:43,887
David knew a place
under the Brooklyn Bridge.
831
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,755
We went there with a truck.
832
00:38:45,789 --> 00:38:48,625
I put some blood
on David's face.
833
00:38:48,657 --> 00:38:51,594
We lit the scene
with the lights of the truck
834
00:38:51,628 --> 00:38:53,064
and we took the photo.
835
00:38:56,867 --> 00:38:58,602
When I went to the darkroom
836
00:38:58,635 --> 00:39:02,773
and I started printing
the photo, it scared me.
837
00:39:02,806 --> 00:39:05,909
It really scared me
to see this image of David
838
00:39:05,942 --> 00:39:08,445
beat up
coming under the chemicals.
839
00:39:08,478 --> 00:39:09,780
It looked so real.
840
00:39:09,813 --> 00:39:11,148
DAVID: A number of months ago,
841
00:39:11,181 --> 00:39:12,548
I read in the newspaper
that there was
842
00:39:12,581 --> 00:39:14,117
a Supreme Court ruling
843
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:15,985
which states
that homosexuals in America
844
00:39:16,018 --> 00:39:17,920
have no constitutional rights
845
00:39:17,954 --> 00:39:20,023
against the government's
invasion of their privacy.
846
00:39:20,056 --> 00:39:23,025
The paper stated only people
who are heterosexual,
847
00:39:23,059 --> 00:39:25,596
or married, or have families
848
00:39:25,628 --> 00:39:27,630
can expect
these constitutional rights.
849
00:39:27,664 --> 00:39:30,701
And realizing I got nothing
left to lose in my actions,
850
00:39:30,733 --> 00:39:34,471
I let my hands become weapons,
my teeth become weapons,
851
00:39:34,503 --> 00:39:35,972
every bone,
and muscle, and fiber,
852
00:39:36,005 --> 00:39:37,875
and ounce of blood
become weapons,
853
00:39:37,907 --> 00:39:41,811
and I feel prepared
for the rest of my life.
854
00:39:41,844 --> 00:39:43,513
GRACIE: Hi, David, it's Gracie.
855
00:39:43,547 --> 00:39:46,048
Can you give me a call at home?
856
00:39:46,081 --> 00:39:47,550
About the Whitney.
857
00:39:56,092 --> 00:39:59,430
'85 was a big year.
858
00:39:59,463 --> 00:40:02,900
David had two major pieces
in the Whitney Biennial.
859
00:40:02,932 --> 00:40:04,768
I mean, that's amazing.
860
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,438
Everything happened
really fast.
861
00:40:07,471 --> 00:40:09,072
Hi, I want to make sure
somebody told you
862
00:40:09,105 --> 00:40:10,673
you made the front page
of the Washington Post
863
00:40:10,706 --> 00:40:12,708
on Sunday for the Biennial.
864
00:40:12,742 --> 00:40:15,612
A big reproduction
of your piece, bye-bye.
865
00:40:15,644 --> 00:40:19,650
It was major for all of us
to be accepted
866
00:40:19,682 --> 00:40:22,018
in the bigger art world
867
00:40:22,052 --> 00:40:23,954
but David wasn't, like,
868
00:40:23,987 --> 00:40:26,456
"Oh, my God, I got
into the Whitney Biennial."
869
00:40:26,489 --> 00:40:27,990
- Not at all.
- MAN: No.
870
00:40:28,023 --> 00:40:29,826
GRACIE: No, I mean,
he really thought about
871
00:40:29,860 --> 00:40:31,929
whether he wanted to do it.
872
00:40:31,961 --> 00:40:33,764
SUR RODNEY SUR:
David has a certain kind
873
00:40:33,797 --> 00:40:35,465
of political consciousness
874
00:40:35,498 --> 00:40:37,800
that plays into his work,
who owns it,
875
00:40:37,833 --> 00:40:40,036
where it's shown,
the whole thing.
876
00:40:40,070 --> 00:40:42,105
He was not
particularly thrilled
877
00:40:42,137 --> 00:40:46,108
about a bunch of rich money
capitalist people
878
00:40:46,141 --> 00:40:48,177
in the Whitney
thinking that he was great.
879
00:40:48,210 --> 00:40:50,513
There's no gratification
for that in him
880
00:40:50,547 --> 00:40:53,784
and those people are very
classist and judgmental.
881
00:40:53,817 --> 00:40:56,619
He wanted
to be recognized by people
882
00:40:56,652 --> 00:40:58,120
that would appreciate his work,
883
00:40:58,153 --> 00:41:00,990
but the right people
for the right reasons.
884
00:41:01,023 --> 00:41:03,993
You know, Peter Hujar
had a lot of the same attitude.
885
00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:10,968
DAVID: Yeah,
it's only been recently
886
00:41:11,001 --> 00:41:13,003
that there's art stars,
there's people
887
00:41:13,036 --> 00:41:15,972
who make tremendous
amounts of money overnight.
888
00:41:22,112 --> 00:41:23,713
DAVID: I agree.
889
00:41:31,086 --> 00:41:32,956
DAVID: That's it, I mean,
890
00:41:32,989 --> 00:41:34,590
it's like they turned
into little mini factories.
891
00:41:34,623 --> 00:41:35,725
- There's...
- PETER: Yeah, I got...
892
00:41:35,759 --> 00:41:37,159
DAVID: ...nothing human about it.
893
00:41:37,193 --> 00:41:39,897
There's no odor,
there's no stink.
894
00:41:39,929 --> 00:41:41,864
GRACIE: Hey, David, did you know
you're in New York Magazine?
895
00:41:41,898 --> 00:41:43,033
They did a review
at the Biennial
896
00:41:43,065 --> 00:41:44,967
and they reproduced your piece
897
00:41:45,001 --> 00:41:46,803
but I also wanted to talk
to you about the Mnuchin.
898
00:41:46,835 --> 00:41:49,839
Okay, bye-bye.
899
00:41:49,873 --> 00:41:53,911
WOMAN: Adrian and Robert Mnuchin
were two collectors.
900
00:41:53,943 --> 00:41:57,213
He was on Wall Street
and she had a cashmere store
901
00:41:57,246 --> 00:41:58,882
and her name was Adrian.
902
00:41:58,914 --> 00:42:01,050
Now it's like Adriana
or something.
903
00:42:01,083 --> 00:42:03,185
But anyway,
at that time she was Adrian.
904
00:42:03,219 --> 00:42:05,556
They commissioned David
and it was the most money
905
00:42:05,588 --> 00:42:07,891
that David had ever gotten
for anything to do
906
00:42:07,923 --> 00:42:10,960
this big installation
in their basement.
907
00:42:10,994 --> 00:42:13,196
He needed the money
so he was glad
908
00:42:13,228 --> 00:42:16,732
that I had made this sale
but a part of him
909
00:42:16,766 --> 00:42:20,737
really was very unhappy
about it.
910
00:42:20,769 --> 00:42:23,172
David didn't really like
rich people.
911
00:42:25,108 --> 00:42:28,679
So he took all this garbage
off of the street
912
00:42:28,711 --> 00:42:31,114
and put it
into the installation.
913
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:36,219
CARLO: They were scouring
all the vacant lots
914
00:42:36,251 --> 00:42:39,155
to grab the nastiest shit
they could.
915
00:42:39,188 --> 00:42:41,257
You know, it looked like
the plague had descended
916
00:42:41,291 --> 00:42:43,660
upon their place,
basically filled it with trash
917
00:42:43,693 --> 00:42:45,329
and made a beautiful
installation out of it
918
00:42:45,362 --> 00:42:48,699
but so much of it
just looked like tetanus.
919
00:42:48,731 --> 00:42:52,068
GRACIE: And it had bugs.
920
00:42:52,101 --> 00:42:54,704
Adrian was like freaked out
921
00:42:54,737 --> 00:42:56,606
these bugs were being brought
922
00:42:56,639 --> 00:42:59,775
into her pristine brownstone.
923
00:42:59,809 --> 00:43:01,979
Of course David loved it,
he brought in more.
924
00:43:04,114 --> 00:43:05,849
GRACIE: David, hi, it's Gracie.
925
00:43:05,882 --> 00:43:07,884
I'm just checking in,
seeing how everything's
926
00:43:07,916 --> 00:43:09,318
going with the installation,
927
00:43:09,351 --> 00:43:14,023
if you need any help,
and what's up?
928
00:43:14,056 --> 00:43:16,092
Basically just
a what's up call.
929
00:43:16,126 --> 00:43:17,961
Um, okay.
930
00:43:17,994 --> 00:43:20,064
I wanted to talk to you,
okay, bye-bye.
931
00:43:21,998 --> 00:43:24,900
GRACIE: So when you look at
the photographs Peter Hujar
932
00:43:24,934 --> 00:43:27,903
took of that installation,
it was all garbage,
933
00:43:27,936 --> 00:43:30,773
it was great like
a lot of figures.
934
00:43:30,806 --> 00:43:32,408
There was the burning child
935
00:43:32,442 --> 00:43:34,811
and there was the big mural
in the background,
936
00:43:34,844 --> 00:43:37,047
there was a tree
and a lot of cow skulls.
937
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:39,682
It was an incredible
installation.
938
00:43:39,715 --> 00:43:43,353
CARLO: Well, in retrospect,
that was Mnuchin.
939
00:43:43,385 --> 00:43:46,889
The A-hole dealer
whose son Steve Mnuchin
940
00:43:46,922 --> 00:43:49,125
is part of Trump's cabinet.
941
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,329
DAVID: I got really angry
of that sudden attention,
942
00:43:53,362 --> 00:43:55,031
- money being thrown at me.
- MAN: Yeah.
943
00:43:55,065 --> 00:43:57,000
DAVID: I was starving
for years earlier,
944
00:43:57,032 --> 00:43:59,735
and then it suddenly crossed
a line where what I make
945
00:43:59,768 --> 00:44:02,304
is feeding me, is...
it's giving me all this stuff
946
00:44:02,338 --> 00:44:05,042
but then I have all this hate
about the structure of that
947
00:44:05,074 --> 00:44:06,842
- because it's so full of shit.
- MAN: Yeah.
948
00:44:06,876 --> 00:44:08,845
DAVID: And this is something
that rattled me.
949
00:44:08,878 --> 00:44:10,981
I realized that
I came out of a totally violent
950
00:44:11,014 --> 00:44:13,216
fucked-up background
growing up as a kid,
951
00:44:13,248 --> 00:44:15,317
came to New York,
went onto the streets,
952
00:44:15,351 --> 00:44:17,186
almost died on the streets,
953
00:44:17,219 --> 00:44:19,288
but once your economics
are taken care of,
954
00:44:19,322 --> 00:44:21,124
once you no longer
have to struggle
955
00:44:21,157 --> 00:44:24,094
to pay rent or eat,
any shit that's underneath
956
00:44:24,126 --> 00:44:25,895
goes to the surface.
957
00:44:29,398 --> 00:44:32,234
PAT: Hi Dave, it's Pat.
958
00:44:32,268 --> 00:44:36,173
I don't know if you're home
or maybe you're sleeping,
959
00:44:36,206 --> 00:44:38,742
well, the first thing
I wanna say
960
00:44:38,775 --> 00:44:42,345
is that your paintings
are fantastic.
961
00:44:42,378 --> 00:44:46,216
I'm so impressed,
I'm so proud of you,
962
00:44:46,248 --> 00:44:48,451
I tried to take pictures
but they wouldn't
963
00:44:48,485 --> 00:44:50,187
let me use the flash and I...
964
00:44:50,219 --> 00:44:52,021
STEVEN: Patty
was always close to David.
965
00:44:52,054 --> 00:44:54,257
PAT: I love you a lot, bye.
966
00:44:54,289 --> 00:44:58,461
STEVEN: Even after we grew up,
we were completely split up.
967
00:44:58,494 --> 00:45:01,063
So the first time I ever
learned about his artwork,
968
00:45:01,097 --> 00:45:03,233
I picked up some magazines
969
00:45:03,266 --> 00:45:05,135
and there was David
in Life Magazine.
970
00:45:05,168 --> 00:45:07,738
I was so much in awe with...
I was like,
971
00:45:07,771 --> 00:45:10,340
"Wow, look where this guy
is at," you know.
972
00:45:18,447 --> 00:45:20,382
I finally found a way
to get in touch with him,
973
00:45:20,416 --> 00:45:22,885
it was an interesting thing
to sit down with him,
974
00:45:22,918 --> 00:45:25,321
I came to New York
and he started spewing off
975
00:45:25,355 --> 00:45:29,259
about he was
a child prostitute, he's gay.
976
00:45:29,291 --> 00:45:33,864
And I get the feeling
that he was testing me.
977
00:45:33,896 --> 00:45:35,965
I think he was afraid
978
00:45:35,998 --> 00:45:39,935
that I would never accept him
being gay.
979
00:45:39,969 --> 00:45:43,139
I just was glad
that he was okay.
980
00:45:43,172 --> 00:45:44,974
David, this is Steve calling,
981
00:45:45,007 --> 00:45:47,143
I don't know if you need maps
for your artwork
982
00:45:47,177 --> 00:45:50,347
but I just threw out
about 5,000 of them today.
983
00:45:50,380 --> 00:45:53,450
I worked for AAA
so he had free maps
984
00:45:53,483 --> 00:45:55,952
whenever he needed them,
I'd make sure he got them.
985
00:45:55,985 --> 00:45:57,887
Maybe I can save you
some money.
986
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,290
Okay. Bye-bye.
987
00:46:01,324 --> 00:46:03,193
RICHARD: Hey David,
this is Richard, you know,
988
00:46:03,226 --> 00:46:04,561
I just wanted to get together
with you and talk about
989
00:46:04,594 --> 00:46:05,961
making a movie
or something like that.
990
00:46:05,994 --> 00:46:08,097
I'm up, give me a buzz, bye.
991
00:46:10,166 --> 00:46:11,902
It was one of those nights
992
00:46:11,934 --> 00:46:14,003
David and I
wanted to get high.
993
00:46:14,036 --> 00:46:16,972
I said, "Hey, why don't we
try shooting ecstasy?
994
00:46:17,005 --> 00:46:18,307
I've got some of that."
995
00:46:22,478 --> 00:46:27,317
David and I got into this deep,
deep conversation, I said,
996
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:29,451
"Let's make a movie
where we try to figure out
997
00:46:29,485 --> 00:46:32,122
why young people
are the way they are,
998
00:46:32,155 --> 00:46:35,559
the punks and all that stuff,"
and just shot a quick movie.
999
00:46:35,592 --> 00:46:37,494
I think we did it in a day.
1000
00:46:37,527 --> 00:46:40,831
David played the father,
Karen Finley played the mother,
1001
00:46:40,864 --> 00:46:43,032
it ended up being
a lot of things
1002
00:46:43,065 --> 00:46:45,935
from David's childhood
and he definitely had
1003
00:46:45,969 --> 00:46:48,003
the most fucked-up stories.
1004
00:46:48,036 --> 00:46:50,472
- Don't get away...
- Stop playing with your food.
1005
00:46:50,505 --> 00:46:52,308
Do you call this food?
1006
00:46:52,342 --> 00:46:54,443
Look, it isn't even fucking
cooked, it's all bloody.
1007
00:46:54,476 --> 00:46:56,145
Shut up.
1008
00:46:56,179 --> 00:46:58,048
RICHARD: David said that
when he was a kid,
1009
00:46:58,081 --> 00:46:59,316
they had a rabbit.
1010
00:46:59,349 --> 00:47:00,984
STEVEN:
My father got us rabbits
1011
00:47:01,016 --> 00:47:03,419
and he said
he gave away the rabbits
1012
00:47:03,452 --> 00:47:06,322
and then Patty
found out somehow
1013
00:47:06,356 --> 00:47:08,258
that he had them butchered
and we winded up
1014
00:47:08,291 --> 00:47:11,228
eating our pet rabbit
which I think was horrific.
1015
00:47:11,260 --> 00:47:13,396
And it really
bothered David too.
1016
00:47:13,429 --> 00:47:16,333
- You know what this is?
- No.
1017
00:47:18,333 --> 00:47:19,869
See that?
1018
00:47:19,902 --> 00:47:21,370
That's my bunny,
what are doing to it?
1019
00:47:21,403 --> 00:47:24,273
And you know what this is?
1020
00:47:24,306 --> 00:47:27,543
No, no, no.
1021
00:47:27,577 --> 00:47:30,146
CYNTHIA: David finally
was starting to deal
1022
00:47:30,179 --> 00:47:33,349
with what had happened to him
during his childhood.
1023
00:47:33,382 --> 00:47:36,118
He started using heroin.
1024
00:47:36,152 --> 00:47:41,224
It was almost a social drug
in the East Village.
1025
00:47:41,257 --> 00:47:44,059
DAVID: I got some junk
that I had lying around,
1026
00:47:44,092 --> 00:47:47,263
so I did it in the bathroom.
1027
00:47:47,297 --> 00:47:50,400
The light and everything just
started making me feel sick.
1028
00:47:52,068 --> 00:47:53,536
STEPHEN KOCH:
David took drugs in a way
1029
00:47:53,568 --> 00:47:56,373
that Peter was sure
would destroy him.
1030
00:47:56,405 --> 00:47:59,643
And Peter knew too much
about the way artists
1031
00:47:59,675 --> 00:48:02,112
can sabotage themselves
to let that
1032
00:48:02,144 --> 00:48:03,980
go one step further.
1033
00:48:04,012 --> 00:48:05,481
At some point, Peter said,
1034
00:48:05,514 --> 00:48:08,951
"David, what are those marks
on your arm?"
1035
00:48:08,985 --> 00:48:10,553
He said, "Oh, it's nothing."
1036
00:48:10,585 --> 00:48:12,488
He said,
"Don't tell me it's nothing
1037
00:48:12,521 --> 00:48:17,126
and you're going to stop
taking heroin today, right now.
1038
00:48:17,159 --> 00:48:20,297
You will never take it again
as long as you live
1039
00:48:20,329 --> 00:48:24,134
and if you do, I will
never speak to you again,
1040
00:48:24,166 --> 00:48:26,068
you will be dead to me."
1041
00:48:26,101 --> 00:48:29,471
CYNTHIA: David started crying
and he'd stopped heroin.
1042
00:48:29,505 --> 00:48:32,175
He never took it again
because Peter was the most
1043
00:48:32,208 --> 00:48:35,945
important relationship
in his life.
1044
00:48:35,978 --> 00:48:37,413
FRAN: They first had an affair
1045
00:48:37,447 --> 00:48:40,617
but I don't think
that lasted that long.
1046
00:48:40,650 --> 00:48:43,286
And then they were friends
but at a certain point,
1047
00:48:43,318 --> 00:48:46,355
I really thought of David
as Peter's son.
1048
00:48:46,389 --> 00:48:48,024
Peter didn't think of him
as Peter's son
1049
00:48:48,056 --> 00:48:49,224
and probably David didn't
but to me,
1050
00:48:49,257 --> 00:48:50,426
that's what it seemed like.
1051
00:49:18,286 --> 00:49:20,990
TOM RAUFFENBART: I met David
at the Bijou Theater
1052
00:49:22,592 --> 00:49:25,262
which was a gay porn theater.
1053
00:49:26,728 --> 00:49:30,466
Our eyes met and we went
to the bathroom
1054
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:33,068
and had a little bit of sex
and I said,
1055
00:49:33,101 --> 00:49:35,471
"Why don't you come over
to my apartment?"
1056
00:49:35,505 --> 00:49:38,641
Which I rarely did with people
that I met there,
1057
00:49:38,673 --> 00:49:42,077
but I was just fascinated
with this guy.
1058
00:49:42,110 --> 00:49:44,513
We left and I asked David
what he did and he said
1059
00:49:44,547 --> 00:49:46,081
he was a painter and I said,
1060
00:49:46,114 --> 00:49:48,050
"What, of houses?"
And he said,
1061
00:49:48,083 --> 00:49:49,418
"No, no, no, no,
I paint things."
1062
00:49:49,452 --> 00:49:51,321
And apparently
he was quite well-known
1063
00:49:51,353 --> 00:49:53,255
in the East Village
and I didn't know who he was,
1064
00:49:53,289 --> 00:49:55,057
I had no idea.
1065
00:49:55,090 --> 00:49:59,228
So he came over and we had
a really sweet night.
1066
00:49:59,262 --> 00:50:00,730
He left me a little painting
1067
00:50:00,762 --> 00:50:03,032
that he did for me
that I really loved.
1068
00:50:03,065 --> 00:50:05,634
And we started
seeing each other.
1069
00:50:08,371 --> 00:50:11,240
I felt my world was very
different after I met David.
1070
00:50:11,273 --> 00:50:14,443
I was totally swept up
with him.
1071
00:50:14,476 --> 00:50:17,212
DAVID: So here I am, heading out
into the cold winds
1072
00:50:17,246 --> 00:50:19,282
of the canyon streets,
walking down and across
1073
00:50:19,315 --> 00:50:20,717
Avenue C towards my home,
1074
00:50:20,750 --> 00:50:22,485
with the smell
and the taste of him
1075
00:50:22,518 --> 00:50:26,088
wrapped around my neck and jaw
like some scarf.
1076
00:50:26,121 --> 00:50:28,123
And how it follows me
in and out of restaurants
1077
00:50:28,157 --> 00:50:30,626
and past cops,
and early morning children,
1078
00:50:30,659 --> 00:50:33,128
and past bakery windows
filled with brides and grooms
1079
00:50:33,161 --> 00:50:37,099
on rows, and rows, and rows
of endless wedding cakes.
1080
00:50:37,132 --> 00:50:38,534
PETER: Hey, juicy lips,
are you there?
1081
00:50:38,568 --> 00:50:40,403
It's about 12:00...
1082
00:50:40,436 --> 00:50:43,173
TOM: David kept talking
about this best friend of his
1083
00:50:43,206 --> 00:50:45,809
that he had in the East Village
and we had to go see him,
1084
00:50:45,842 --> 00:50:47,577
and his name was Peter
and then Peter,
1085
00:50:47,610 --> 00:50:49,813
and all of a sudden I said,
1086
00:50:49,846 --> 00:50:51,514
"Are you talking about
Peter Hujar?"
1087
00:50:51,547 --> 00:50:53,550
And he said,
"Well, how did you know that?"
1088
00:50:53,583 --> 00:50:55,285
PETER: Howdy-do, howdy-do?
1089
00:50:55,318 --> 00:50:57,653
TOM: I said, "Well,
I had a little affair
1090
00:50:57,686 --> 00:51:00,289
in the '70s with Peter
for a month,"
1091
00:51:00,322 --> 00:51:01,824
and I kept thinking,
"Oh, great,
1092
00:51:01,858 --> 00:51:04,160
Peter's gonna tell him
I'm an asshole."
1093
00:51:04,193 --> 00:51:07,797
But Peter thought actually
that I was good for David,
1094
00:51:07,829 --> 00:51:09,632
you know,
that I could help David,
1095
00:51:09,664 --> 00:51:13,603
I could be a settling
kind of thing for him
1096
00:51:13,635 --> 00:51:15,637
which actually
probably is true.
1097
00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:18,674
But they were so close
that it was...
1098
00:51:18,708 --> 00:51:20,410
I couldn't even describe
what that was,
1099
00:51:20,443 --> 00:51:22,278
much different
than our relationship
1100
00:51:22,311 --> 00:51:23,780
and I was just
trying to figure out
1101
00:51:23,813 --> 00:51:25,414
where I fit in his life.
1102
00:51:25,447 --> 00:51:27,317
He said,
"I have three priorities,
1103
00:51:27,349 --> 00:51:30,686
in this order, Peter,
my art, and you."
1104
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,155
And I had to find
that to be okay,
1105
00:51:33,188 --> 00:51:35,757
it was hard at first
but as I looked at it,
1106
00:51:35,791 --> 00:51:37,327
I realized
there was no threat there.
1107
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,162
This was a whole other thing.
1108
00:51:39,195 --> 00:51:42,132
[crowd cheering]
1109
00:51:44,567 --> 00:51:46,168
CARLO: Hi David,
this is Carlo
1110
00:51:46,202 --> 00:51:48,138
wishing you a Happy New Year.
1111
00:51:48,170 --> 00:51:49,605
BRIDGETTE: Hi David,
this is Bridgette,
1112
00:51:49,639 --> 00:51:52,242
I wanted to wish you
Happy New Year.
1113
00:51:52,275 --> 00:51:54,443
PETER: Howdy-do, howdy-do?
1114
00:51:54,476 --> 00:51:56,145
It's the nufter.
1115
00:51:56,179 --> 00:51:57,680
And the monks last night
were great,
1116
00:51:57,713 --> 00:51:58,848
you would've actually
loved them.
1117
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:00,549
I think there were 10 of them
1118
00:52:00,583 --> 00:52:03,820
and they sang in voices
that was like, "Whoa."
1119
00:52:03,853 --> 00:52:05,188
You know, deeper than that.
1120
00:52:05,221 --> 00:52:07,724
"Oh, uh." No, I can't do it.
1121
00:52:07,757 --> 00:52:12,195
"Oh, hmm, uh."
1122
00:52:12,228 --> 00:52:13,329
It was really nice,
1123
00:52:13,362 --> 00:52:16,166
they did a healing ceremony.
1124
00:52:16,199 --> 00:52:18,768
Well, anyway, that's all
I have to say, goodbye.
1125
00:52:25,608 --> 00:52:27,644
FRAN:
I took Peter to the doctor.
1126
00:52:27,677 --> 00:52:30,280
I don't remember
what was wrong with Peter
1127
00:52:30,313 --> 00:52:33,849
or how Peter felt
that made him have that test.
1128
00:52:33,882 --> 00:52:35,684
They didn't tell you there.
1129
00:52:35,717 --> 00:52:37,819
It took two weeks
for this test to come back.
1130
00:52:37,853 --> 00:52:42,659
And I remember very much
that Peter called me,
1131
00:52:42,692 --> 00:52:44,661
and I can't describe to you.
1132
00:52:44,693 --> 00:52:47,529
I said, "What... how are you?"
And he goes, "Fran,"
1133
00:52:47,563 --> 00:52:50,833
and then he made the sound
like, um, like a...
1134
00:52:50,865 --> 00:52:52,902
not a scream
but kind of a scream.
1135
00:52:52,934 --> 00:52:55,204
It more sounded to me
like an animal sound,
1136
00:52:55,237 --> 00:52:56,739
not like a human.
1137
00:52:56,771 --> 00:53:00,309
He said his test
came back positive.
1138
00:53:00,342 --> 00:53:02,411
DAVID: When Peter
was diagnosed with AIDS,
1139
00:53:02,445 --> 00:53:03,813
I came over 10 minutes later.
1140
00:53:03,846 --> 00:53:05,548
He went to meet me at the door
1141
00:53:05,581 --> 00:53:07,483
and there was some
mail that had arrived
1142
00:53:07,516 --> 00:53:08,918
and it fell on the floor and I
remember him picking it up
1143
00:53:08,951 --> 00:53:10,686
and turning
and just saying,
1144
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:12,955
"Even something like
getting a piece of mail
1145
00:53:12,989 --> 00:53:15,391
has an entirely
different meaning."
1146
00:53:15,423 --> 00:53:18,228
And from that,
I constructed something
1147
00:53:18,260 --> 00:53:20,362
of what this man is facing.
1148
00:53:25,434 --> 00:53:26,702
And I felt very sad.
1149
00:53:26,735 --> 00:53:28,538
I felt angry. I felt fear.
1150
00:53:28,570 --> 00:53:32,442
I felt the possibility
of my own diagnosis.
1151
00:53:32,474 --> 00:53:34,277
TOM: David was sitting
at the table
1152
00:53:34,309 --> 00:53:35,612
and he was crying
and I didn't know
1153
00:53:35,644 --> 00:53:37,347
what was going on
and he told me
1154
00:53:37,380 --> 00:53:39,582
that Peter
had been diagnosed with AIDS.
1155
00:53:39,614 --> 00:53:41,250
He was destroyed.
1156
00:53:41,284 --> 00:53:42,619
I mean,
it was so emotional for him.
1157
00:53:42,652 --> 00:53:45,655
It was so upsetting.
1158
00:53:45,688 --> 00:53:47,456
ANITA VITALE:
When Peter was diagnosed,
1159
00:53:47,489 --> 00:53:50,259
David asked me
if I could help him
1160
00:53:50,293 --> 00:53:52,295
because Peter
really had no income.
1161
00:53:52,327 --> 00:53:54,463
He had no money.
He had no... he had nothing
1162
00:53:54,496 --> 00:53:57,266
and he didn't wanna lose
his apartment.
1163
00:53:57,300 --> 00:54:00,937
I worked as Director of
New York City's AIDS Program.
1164
00:54:00,969 --> 00:54:04,373
And it was through Tom
that I met David.
1165
00:54:04,407 --> 00:54:08,311
This was an epidemic
of great proportions.
1166
00:54:10,579 --> 00:54:13,449
And the city ignored it
for quite a while.
1167
00:54:13,481 --> 00:54:15,518
In fact, everyone ignored it.
1168
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,630
People with AIDS
who were getting sick
1169
00:54:28,664 --> 00:54:31,467
and losing their jobs,
were coming to apply
1170
00:54:31,500 --> 00:54:34,436
for public assistance.
1171
00:54:34,469 --> 00:54:36,972
Because AIDS had
a stigma already,
1172
00:54:37,005 --> 00:54:39,641
none of the traditional systems
in place
1173
00:54:39,675 --> 00:54:41,377
wanted anything
to do with them.
1174
00:54:41,409 --> 00:54:43,645
The staff wouldn't touch
their paperwork.
1175
00:54:43,679 --> 00:54:46,750
They often died before
they got any benefits at all.
1176
00:54:48,884 --> 00:54:52,322
Mayor Koch finally decided that
something needed to be done.
1177
00:54:52,355 --> 00:54:55,692
He started a very little
program and I have to say,
1178
00:54:55,724 --> 00:54:58,795
we probably broke every rule
in the book
1179
00:54:58,827 --> 00:55:00,929
in order to get people
what they needed.
1180
00:55:02,931 --> 00:55:05,567
So I went over
like a good caseworker,
1181
00:55:05,601 --> 00:55:07,603
and I fell in love with him.
1182
00:55:07,635 --> 00:55:10,972
I mean,
he was an amazing person.
1183
00:55:11,005 --> 00:55:14,009
I could certainly ease
a lot of his fears,
1184
00:55:14,043 --> 00:55:16,679
he couldn't believe that
he wouldn't lose his apartment
1185
00:55:16,711 --> 00:55:20,349
and he'd have
some kind of income.
1186
00:55:20,382 --> 00:55:22,617
PETER: Hippity-hoppity
happy Easter eggs.
1187
00:55:22,650 --> 00:55:25,721
This is Peter Cottontail.
1188
00:55:25,755 --> 00:55:27,957
This is the
ex-Peter Cottontail.
1189
00:55:31,393 --> 00:55:32,694
Are you there?
1190
00:55:32,728 --> 00:55:34,731
Hello? Howdy-do?
1191
00:55:34,764 --> 00:55:36,666
ANITA: Peter was prone
to great depression,
1192
00:55:36,699 --> 00:55:39,668
I mean, he never took a photo
after his diagnosis.
1193
00:55:39,702 --> 00:55:41,971
He gave it up entirely.
1194
00:55:51,646 --> 00:55:53,382
DAVID: A couple of times,
I did confront him
1195
00:55:53,416 --> 00:55:55,051
because I thought he was stuck.
1196
00:55:55,083 --> 00:55:56,885
And that was the only time
I allowed myself
1197
00:55:56,918 --> 00:55:58,554
to confront him
when I thought that he was just
1198
00:55:58,586 --> 00:56:01,757
shutting down
and so full of rage
1199
00:56:01,791 --> 00:56:04,626
and not strong enough
to express it.
1200
00:56:14,769 --> 00:56:16,639
And I remember him
threatening to throw himself
1201
00:56:16,672 --> 00:56:18,507
in front of a car
because he was mad.
1202
00:56:18,541 --> 00:56:20,109
But he didn't have the strength
to walk to the curb
1203
00:56:20,141 --> 00:56:23,745
and throw himself
in front of the car.
1204
00:56:23,778 --> 00:56:26,148
He talked about killing himself
endlessly, brutally.
1205
00:56:26,181 --> 00:56:27,817
"I wanna go to that building
across the street
1206
00:56:27,849 --> 00:56:29,485
and jump off the roof"
and he would say,
1207
00:56:29,518 --> 00:56:31,487
"I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna do it."
1208
00:56:31,519 --> 00:56:33,722
And he would say it every day
until one day we gave him
1209
00:56:33,755 --> 00:56:35,690
a number of a doctor
who would give medicine
1210
00:56:35,724 --> 00:56:36,826
to kill himself.
1211
00:56:36,858 --> 00:56:38,193
And once I gave him the number,
1212
00:56:38,226 --> 00:56:39,594
he tucked it away
and never spoke
1213
00:56:39,628 --> 00:56:41,431
about killing himself again.
1214
00:56:58,213 --> 00:57:00,615
GRACIE:
David had like a huge career,
1215
00:57:00,648 --> 00:57:02,617
then when I did
The Four Elements,
1216
00:57:02,650 --> 00:57:05,454
we didn't sell a thing.
It was over.
1217
00:57:05,487 --> 00:57:07,722
SUR RODNEY SUR: The art world
if very fickle like that.
1218
00:57:07,755 --> 00:57:10,725
Once you start getting
a certain amount of something,
1219
00:57:10,759 --> 00:57:15,197
you have to keep it going,
or it fizzles out.
1220
00:57:15,231 --> 00:57:19,035
DAVID: I had this naive sense
that once people supported work
1221
00:57:19,068 --> 00:57:22,505
then, that doesn't
just disappear that, you know,
1222
00:57:22,538 --> 00:57:24,106
that they'll watch what you do
1223
00:57:24,139 --> 00:57:26,709
and they'll take interest
and they'll follow it,
1224
00:57:26,742 --> 00:57:29,545
which isn't the case at all.
1225
00:57:29,577 --> 00:57:32,648
CYNTHIA: It was the end
of the East Village scene
1226
00:57:32,681 --> 00:57:35,050
and the so-called
East Village art
1227
00:57:35,083 --> 00:57:37,553
had just gone out of style.
1228
00:57:42,690 --> 00:57:44,526
- [phone beeps]
- PETER: Hi, this is Hujar.
1229
00:57:44,559 --> 00:57:46,661
I'm on my way
to the horse pistol
1230
00:57:46,695 --> 00:57:48,698
to stay there for a while.
1231
00:57:48,731 --> 00:57:52,902
I guess you can find my number
by calling Cabrini Hospital.
1232
00:57:52,934 --> 00:57:55,137
Goodbye.
1233
00:57:55,170 --> 00:57:56,972
ANITA: He lost weight.
1234
00:57:57,005 --> 00:58:00,009
He had the beginnings
of dementia.
1235
00:58:00,041 --> 00:58:02,944
He just was kind of
fading away.
1236
00:58:02,978 --> 00:58:04,680
DAVID: I'm sitting
in his hospital room
1237
00:58:04,713 --> 00:58:07,517
so high up in the upper
reaches of the building
1238
00:58:07,550 --> 00:58:09,919
and leaning against the glass
to the window of his room
1239
00:58:09,952 --> 00:58:12,688
where I can see dizzily down
into the street.
1240
00:58:12,721 --> 00:58:15,858
It's a gradual turn of
the Earth outside the windows.
1241
00:58:15,891 --> 00:58:18,695
I wonder what it is to fall
such distances.
1242
00:58:20,728 --> 00:58:23,865
I'm afraid he's really dying.
1243
00:58:23,898 --> 00:58:28,069
And he barely opens his eyes
for more than a few seconds.
1244
00:58:28,103 --> 00:58:29,771
And his breath was coming
1245
00:58:29,804 --> 00:58:34,009
in rapid fire bursts
like machine gun.
1246
00:58:34,043 --> 00:58:36,546
I turn from the silence
in the window and look at him
1247
00:58:36,579 --> 00:58:40,016
and an iris appears
beneath one half-lifted eyelid
1248
00:58:40,048 --> 00:58:43,052
and its strength bores
right through me.
1249
00:58:43,085 --> 00:58:44,820
And I turn away
almost embarrassed,
1250
00:58:44,853 --> 00:58:48,824
having as much life in me
as he has.
1251
00:58:48,856 --> 00:58:51,760
- MAN: Stand up and fight.
- MAN: Okay.
1252
00:58:54,262 --> 00:58:57,065
ANITA: It was Thanksgiving
and I met David
1253
00:58:57,099 --> 00:59:00,135
in Peter's room
at the hospital.
1254
00:59:00,168 --> 00:59:04,272
Ethyl Eichelberger was there
and Peter was in a coma.
1255
00:59:04,306 --> 00:59:06,041
I mean, he really
wasn't responsive
1256
00:59:06,074 --> 00:59:07,710
in any kind of way.
1257
00:59:10,679 --> 00:59:14,884
We're all sitting there
and Ethyl says very quietly,
1258
00:59:14,916 --> 00:59:17,052
"He's not breathing anymore.
1259
00:59:17,085 --> 00:59:19,087
His chest
isn't going up and down."
1260
00:59:22,925 --> 00:59:24,794
We called the nurse in.
1261
00:59:24,827 --> 00:59:27,297
And the nurse said,
"Yes, he had passed."
1262
00:59:33,735 --> 00:59:35,170
And then David says,
1263
00:59:35,204 --> 00:59:37,073
"Could you all
leave me alone with him?"
1264
00:59:43,144 --> 00:59:45,081
DAVID: If I could attach
our blood vessels
1265
00:59:45,114 --> 00:59:48,284
so that we would become
each other, I would.
1266
00:59:48,317 --> 00:59:50,920
If I could attach
our blood vessels
1267
00:59:50,952 --> 00:59:53,088
in order to anchor you
to the Earth,
1268
00:59:53,121 --> 00:59:56,692
to this present time, to me,
I would.
1269
00:59:58,293 --> 01:00:01,896
It makes me weep
to feel the history of you,
1270
01:00:01,929 --> 01:00:04,634
of your flesh beneath my hands,
1271
01:00:04,666 --> 01:00:06,869
in a time of so much loss.
1272
01:00:08,903 --> 01:00:12,108
It makes me weep,
all these moments
1273
01:00:12,141 --> 01:00:15,845
will be lost in time
like tears in rain.
1274
01:00:19,213 --> 01:00:21,317
Smell the flowers
while you can.
1275
01:00:23,284 --> 01:00:27,355
TOM: When Peter died,
I went out to dinner with Anita
1276
01:00:27,389 --> 01:00:30,893
and this nurse,
he was talking about,
1277
01:00:30,925 --> 01:00:32,894
sometimes you could tell
somebody was infected
1278
01:00:32,927 --> 01:00:34,864
because they'd get
a string of pearls
1279
01:00:34,896 --> 01:00:39,300
along your neck which was
glands that would swell up.
1280
01:00:39,333 --> 01:00:41,736
So while I'm sitting there,
1281
01:00:41,769 --> 01:00:43,838
I run the fingers down
my neck and sure enough
1282
01:00:43,871 --> 01:00:46,308
I have a string of pearls,
swollen glands.
1283
01:00:48,177 --> 01:00:51,047
I decided to get tested.
1284
01:00:51,079 --> 01:00:53,315
It came back positive.
1285
01:00:53,347 --> 01:00:56,085
I had pretty good T cell
at that point.
1286
01:00:56,117 --> 01:00:58,253
I wasn't sick or anything.
1287
01:00:58,286 --> 01:01:01,056
David, he was very sympathetic
and very supportive
1288
01:01:01,090 --> 01:01:02,792
but then at some point,
I said,
1289
01:01:02,824 --> 01:01:04,125
"You know,
you're being very supportive,
1290
01:01:04,159 --> 01:01:07,963
but you don't know
your status."
1291
01:01:07,996 --> 01:01:09,231
DR. BOB FRIEDMAN:
The first time I saw David,
1292
01:01:09,264 --> 01:01:12,168
David had markers of infection,
1293
01:01:12,201 --> 01:01:14,170
oral candidiasis, thrush.
1294
01:01:14,202 --> 01:01:16,338
He didn't have a competent
immune system.
1295
01:01:16,371 --> 01:01:19,208
I don't think this came
as a shock to David.
1296
01:01:23,478 --> 01:01:26,715
DAVID: Hi, I just woke up.
1297
01:01:26,748 --> 01:01:30,251
Waking up every hour
1298
01:01:30,284 --> 01:01:32,187
for the last,
1299
01:01:32,221 --> 01:01:34,222
I don't know,
three or four hours.
1300
01:01:36,791 --> 01:01:39,228
[yawns]
1301
01:01:39,260 --> 01:01:41,831
So I was diagnosed with ARC
1302
01:01:41,864 --> 01:01:44,833
sometime in the summer.
1303
01:01:44,867 --> 01:01:48,237
Now near the end of November,
1304
01:01:48,269 --> 01:01:50,940
I'm living at Peter's house,
Peter Hujar,
1305
01:01:50,972 --> 01:01:54,177
because I couldn't afford
the other apartment that I had.
1306
01:02:03,318 --> 01:02:05,121
TOM: David came back positive
1307
01:02:05,153 --> 01:02:08,389
but his T cells
were really ravaged.
1308
01:02:08,422 --> 01:02:10,058
David asked Dr. Friedman,
1309
01:02:10,092 --> 01:02:12,294
"Do I have so few
that I can name them?"
1310
01:02:12,327 --> 01:02:13,996
DR. BOB: Back then,
the magic number
1311
01:02:14,028 --> 01:02:16,297
was 200 T cells.
1312
01:02:16,331 --> 01:02:20,269
If you could keep the patient
at 200 T cells or higher,
1313
01:02:20,302 --> 01:02:23,405
there'd be less
opportunistic infections.
1314
01:02:23,438 --> 01:02:26,075
TOM: He had less than a hundred
when he was tested
1315
01:02:26,108 --> 01:02:28,144
so he was already in bad shape.
1316
01:02:28,177 --> 01:02:29,812
- [phone beeps]
- GRACIE: Peter, hi.
1317
01:02:29,844 --> 01:02:31,846
It's... oh, Peter, oh, my God.
1318
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,550
I'm looking at the name,
what a...
1319
01:02:34,583 --> 01:02:38,253
unbelievable
psychological slur.
1320
01:02:38,286 --> 01:02:40,789
This is Gracie calling
for David.
1321
01:02:40,822 --> 01:02:42,357
He came in to the gallery
and told us.
1322
01:02:42,391 --> 01:02:44,293
He was very quiet about it.
1323
01:02:44,326 --> 01:02:47,829
I mean, he came in and he said
that he'd just been tested
1324
01:02:47,862 --> 01:02:50,031
and he found out
that he had it.
1325
01:02:50,065 --> 01:02:52,101
It was devastating for me.
1326
01:02:52,134 --> 01:02:55,471
I mean, I felt very protective
of David.
1327
01:02:55,503 --> 01:02:58,840
When Keith Haring came out
about having AIDS,
1328
01:02:58,873 --> 01:03:01,509
it just seemed like
everybody had to run,
1329
01:03:01,543 --> 01:03:04,313
buy something of his because
he was gonna die of AIDS.
1330
01:03:04,346 --> 01:03:06,181
He had AIDS
and he was gonna die.
1331
01:03:06,215 --> 01:03:09,451
It was so gross
how Keith was treated
1332
01:03:09,483 --> 01:03:12,387
and how everything around him,
what that was all about,
1333
01:03:12,420 --> 01:03:14,556
and I didn't want that
for David.
1334
01:03:14,590 --> 01:03:17,026
I mean,
I knew how private David was
1335
01:03:17,059 --> 01:03:21,530
and so when he told me,
my first reaction was
1336
01:03:21,563 --> 01:03:23,865
that we shouldn't tell anyone.
1337
01:03:23,898 --> 01:03:25,467
Which of course
is the wrong response
1338
01:03:25,500 --> 01:03:27,036
to have with David.
1339
01:03:27,068 --> 01:03:29,137
That's when I picked up
the phone
1340
01:03:29,170 --> 01:03:30,839
and called Barry Blinderman
and said,
1341
01:03:30,873 --> 01:03:33,943
"You have to do this
retrospective now,
1342
01:03:33,976 --> 01:03:36,378
like, now."
1343
01:03:36,411 --> 01:03:39,380
[engine turbine whirring]
1344
01:03:39,414 --> 01:03:41,884
BARRY: She was right
and that this is what I do,
1345
01:03:41,916 --> 01:03:43,952
books and retrospectives
and...
1346
01:03:43,985 --> 01:03:46,554
I was an avid fan
of his work.
1347
01:03:46,588 --> 01:03:49,490
I bought the painting,
Fuck You Faggot Fucker,
1348
01:03:49,523 --> 01:03:51,460
back in 1984.
1349
01:03:51,492 --> 01:03:54,063
There was an urgency
to do the show
1350
01:03:54,096 --> 01:03:56,264
while he was alive.
1351
01:03:56,297 --> 01:03:59,434
I wrote a grant to the NEA,
1352
01:03:59,467 --> 01:04:02,605
got the grant worth $15,000
1353
01:04:02,637 --> 01:04:07,009
and started working with David
planning the exhibition,
1354
01:04:07,041 --> 01:04:08,376
then the catalogue.
1355
01:04:13,614 --> 01:04:15,583
I thought the phrase
"Tongues of Flame"
1356
01:04:15,617 --> 01:04:17,920
was very appropriate.
It's a biblical reference.
1357
01:04:17,952 --> 01:04:19,554
It's a reference to a play.
It's a reference
1358
01:04:19,588 --> 01:04:21,023
to a silent movie.
1359
01:04:21,056 --> 01:04:23,157
But mostly, Tongues of Flame,
1360
01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:27,096
I'm thinking what a...
an amazing orator he was.
1361
01:04:27,128 --> 01:04:28,963
I was thinking
about the Burning Child,
1362
01:04:28,996 --> 01:04:30,932
I was thinking
about the Burning House,
1363
01:04:30,965 --> 01:04:34,168
the incendiary aspect of it,
the passion.
1364
01:04:34,202 --> 01:04:37,206
And it just seemed like
everything that was connected
1365
01:04:37,239 --> 01:04:40,009
with David was on fire.
1366
01:04:40,041 --> 01:04:43,578
[music]
1367
01:04:43,612 --> 01:04:45,146
DAVID: One of the things
that happened
1368
01:04:45,179 --> 01:04:47,415
after my diagnosis
is this thing
1369
01:04:47,449 --> 01:04:49,652
of this may be the last work
I do. So it's, like,
1370
01:04:49,684 --> 01:04:53,221
trying to focus everything
and channel it into the square,
1371
01:04:53,255 --> 01:04:55,124
or into this photograph,
or into this thing
1372
01:04:55,157 --> 01:04:58,126
that it's all got to go in,
all the anger,
1373
01:04:58,159 --> 01:05:01,029
all the emotions,
all the thoughts.
1374
01:05:01,063 --> 01:05:04,566
I'm working on a series
of sex images
1375
01:05:04,599 --> 01:05:09,004
that take environments
like the sky,
1376
01:05:09,036 --> 01:05:12,106
the ocean, an airplane,
1377
01:05:12,139 --> 01:05:15,344
train movements, a forest,
1378
01:05:15,376 --> 01:05:17,313
and I'll superimpose
1379
01:05:17,346 --> 01:05:22,117
a circle that has
a very explicit sex act.
1380
01:05:22,150 --> 01:05:25,554
And most of them
are homosexual acts.
1381
01:05:25,586 --> 01:05:28,490
[music]
1382
01:05:31,092 --> 01:05:33,228
DAVID:
Outside of the sex series,
1383
01:05:33,260 --> 01:05:37,699
I placed these circular images
inside the field of painting
1384
01:05:37,733 --> 01:05:40,402
and so for me the circles
are like cells
1385
01:05:40,434 --> 01:05:43,038
and they contain information.
1386
01:05:43,070 --> 01:05:46,741
And I see them
as microscopic views
1387
01:05:46,775 --> 01:05:50,512
so it's like looking
into the interior of something,
1388
01:05:50,545 --> 01:05:55,017
like looking at a spot of blood
and seeing the cells.
1389
01:05:55,050 --> 01:05:57,686
And I also see them
as telescopic views
1390
01:05:57,719 --> 01:05:59,755
so that you could be looking
through a telescope
1391
01:05:59,788 --> 01:06:02,590
and then that says something
to me about surveillance,
1392
01:06:02,623 --> 01:06:04,525
seeing something
from a distance.
1393
01:06:04,559 --> 01:06:07,629
I like the suggestions
of all those things.
1394
01:06:07,661 --> 01:06:10,198
It's about discovery.
1395
01:06:10,231 --> 01:06:12,233
And I use dreams in my work.
1396
01:06:12,266 --> 01:06:13,768
Dreams are very important
to me.
1397
01:06:13,802 --> 01:06:15,570
I usually write them down
all the time.
1398
01:06:15,603 --> 01:06:19,140
The dreams are an example
of how the imagination
1399
01:06:19,173 --> 01:06:21,443
can break all boundaries.
1400
01:06:23,077 --> 01:06:24,679
CARLO:
His iconography is based off
1401
01:06:24,713 --> 01:06:28,083
this profound sense he had
that he could try
1402
01:06:28,115 --> 01:06:30,485
to look at the universe.
1403
01:06:30,518 --> 01:06:34,389
Everything organic,
1404
01:06:34,422 --> 01:06:37,291
and everything manmade,
1405
01:06:37,324 --> 01:06:39,127
all the delights,
and all the horrors,
1406
01:06:39,161 --> 01:06:42,030
and trying to put them
together.
1407
01:06:42,063 --> 01:06:46,335
But every aspect of it
would be deeply personal.
1408
01:06:50,739 --> 01:06:52,273
DAVID KIEHL: When Peter died,
1409
01:06:52,306 --> 01:06:54,776
David took photographs
of the head,
1410
01:06:54,809 --> 01:06:56,778
the hands, and the feet.
1411
01:06:56,811 --> 01:07:00,548
There's a tradition
of taking death masks
1412
01:07:00,581 --> 01:07:02,384
of someone important.
1413
01:07:02,416 --> 01:07:04,219
Hands are important
because they're how
1414
01:07:04,251 --> 01:07:06,255
you physically interact
with the world.
1415
01:07:06,288 --> 01:07:09,123
And then the feet,
I think are very important.
1416
01:07:09,157 --> 01:07:11,126
And that goes back
to the Old Testament
1417
01:07:11,159 --> 01:07:12,693
and the New Testament.
1418
01:07:12,726 --> 01:07:14,829
How do you read people,
you watch their hands
1419
01:07:14,862 --> 01:07:17,265
but it's more important
you watch their feet
1420
01:07:17,298 --> 01:07:19,300
because that's what's
anchoring you to the world.
1421
01:07:21,135 --> 01:07:23,072
And you find that
all the way through
1422
01:07:23,105 --> 01:07:25,373
classic spiritual literature.
1423
01:07:25,407 --> 01:07:28,510
That iconic letting out
of those images,
1424
01:07:28,543 --> 01:07:30,612
incorporating them into
Peter Hujar Dead
1425
01:07:30,644 --> 01:07:34,750
with that text
is really a call to arms.
1426
01:07:34,782 --> 01:07:37,118
DAVID: I was diagnosed with ARC
recently
1427
01:07:37,152 --> 01:07:38,653
and this was after
the last few years
1428
01:07:38,686 --> 01:07:40,688
of losing count of the friends
and neighbors
1429
01:07:40,722 --> 01:07:43,492
who've been dying slow,
vicious, unnecessary deaths
1430
01:07:43,525 --> 01:07:45,327
because fags, and dykes,
and junkies
1431
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:48,130
are expendable in this country.
And at the moment,
1432
01:07:48,163 --> 01:07:50,833
at the moment
I'm a 37-foot tall,
1433
01:07:50,865 --> 01:07:55,503
1,172-pound man
inside this six-foot body,
1434
01:07:55,536 --> 01:07:57,538
and all I could feel
is the pressure.
1435
01:07:57,572 --> 01:08:00,142
All I can feel is the pressure
and the need for relief.
1436
01:08:00,175 --> 01:08:02,277
PAT: David? It's Pat.
1437
01:08:02,309 --> 01:08:04,612
It's been too long
and I want you to know
1438
01:08:04,646 --> 01:08:07,149
that I think of you
and I love you a lot,
1439
01:08:07,181 --> 01:08:09,117
and I hope all is well.
1440
01:08:09,150 --> 01:08:10,685
DAVID: Last night
I talked to my sister
1441
01:08:10,719 --> 01:08:14,690
for the first time
in seven months I think.
1442
01:08:14,722 --> 01:08:17,592
I told her about my diagnosis
and...
1443
01:08:18,859 --> 01:08:21,362
it was rough for me anyway.
1444
01:08:21,395 --> 01:08:23,465
I thought she handled it
pretty well.
1445
01:08:24,865 --> 01:08:27,569
But then who knows.
1446
01:08:27,601 --> 01:08:29,438
I remember Pat
once saying to me,
1447
01:08:29,470 --> 01:08:32,406
she will never get AIDS
or something like that because,
1448
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:34,342
"I'm not one of those people
that run around
1449
01:08:34,376 --> 01:08:37,246
to have sex with everybody."
1450
01:08:37,279 --> 01:08:39,248
Then I remember
I didn't correct her.
1451
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:41,917
[chuckles]
1452
01:08:41,949 --> 01:08:43,751
I mean, how do you begin?
1453
01:08:47,421 --> 01:08:48,523
STEVEN: Dave, you home?
1454
01:08:48,556 --> 01:08:50,126
It's Steve calling again.
1455
01:08:51,259 --> 01:08:52,360
Okay.
1456
01:08:52,394 --> 01:08:54,530
Bye-bye.
1457
01:08:54,563 --> 01:08:57,298
After he had AIDS,
we were fine
1458
01:08:57,332 --> 01:09:00,602
but there came that day
when I called him on the phone
1459
01:09:00,635 --> 01:09:03,472
when I told him our Aunt Helen
was coming to visit.
1460
01:09:03,505 --> 01:09:05,440
Boy, that set him off.
1461
01:09:05,472 --> 01:09:07,775
DAVID: Look, if it comes up
whether about my girlfriend
1462
01:09:07,809 --> 01:09:09,411
or we have girlfriends,
1463
01:09:09,444 --> 01:09:10,846
I'm gonna tell him
I'm homosexual.
1464
01:09:10,878 --> 01:09:12,247
And if it comes up,
I'll tell him
1465
01:09:12,279 --> 01:09:13,849
that I have this virus.
1466
01:09:13,881 --> 01:09:15,783
If it goes far enough,
I'll fucking confront him
1467
01:09:15,817 --> 01:09:18,287
and ask him why the fuck
they let the psychotic
1468
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:20,488
do this damage to us
all these fucking years
1469
01:09:20,521 --> 01:09:22,757
and-and not do
a fucking thing about it,
1470
01:09:22,791 --> 01:09:25,293
and like talk about their God
and all this other shit
1471
01:09:25,327 --> 01:09:27,262
when they watched this guy,
what he did to us.
1472
01:09:27,295 --> 01:09:29,597
I'm tired of living these lies
with these people
1473
01:09:29,631 --> 01:09:31,400
and I'm tired of hiding
from these people
1474
01:09:31,432 --> 01:09:32,868
because I'm afraid of who I am
1475
01:09:32,900 --> 01:09:35,237
or because I have problems
with who I am.
1476
01:09:35,270 --> 01:09:36,838
And I'm not gonna
go through it anymore.
1477
01:09:36,871 --> 01:09:38,407
STEVEN: "This is not the place,"
I said,
1478
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:40,675
"if you wanna confront
Aunt Helen,
1479
01:09:40,708 --> 01:09:43,278
then go to Detroit
and confront her.
1480
01:09:43,310 --> 01:09:44,813
But you're not coming here."
1481
01:09:44,845 --> 01:09:47,248
He went into a rage
that frightened me.
1482
01:09:47,282 --> 01:09:49,418
DAVID: Don't insult me
by inviting me to come
1483
01:09:49,451 --> 01:09:50,985
after the relatives leave.
1484
01:09:51,019 --> 01:09:53,588
That's right.
Out of sight, okay?
1485
01:09:53,622 --> 01:09:56,490
Get the fuck out of our sight
until it's comfortable,
1486
01:09:56,524 --> 01:09:58,527
until we can deal with you
sitting here
1487
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:02,664
with your homosexuality,
with your AIDS.
1488
01:10:02,697 --> 01:10:04,498
Yeah, right, sorry for myself.
1489
01:10:04,532 --> 01:10:06,768
I'm the one
who's fucking dying, asshole.
1490
01:10:06,801 --> 01:10:08,937
I'm the one who's got
to fucking confront things
1491
01:10:08,970 --> 01:10:11,440
before I go,
and that's what I wanna do.
1492
01:10:11,472 --> 01:10:13,742
I wanna clear the fear
out of my head.
1493
01:10:13,774 --> 01:10:16,344
STEVEN: It was so painful to me,
1494
01:10:16,377 --> 01:10:18,546
the way that he and I
interacted.
1495
01:10:18,579 --> 01:10:20,448
If I could do it
all over again,
1496
01:10:20,481 --> 01:10:22,850
I-I'd tried to do it
a little differently.
1497
01:10:22,884 --> 01:10:25,453
DAVID: So, are you afraid to
tell your children I have AIDS?
1498
01:10:25,487 --> 01:10:27,922
STEVEN: And then he starts
saying, "Oh, your kids know
1499
01:10:27,956 --> 01:10:29,824
that you have a faggot
for a brother?"
1500
01:10:29,858 --> 01:10:31,659
DAVID: That's not what I said.
I said, "Are you afraid
1501
01:10:31,693 --> 01:10:33,395
to tell your kids I have AIDS?"
1502
01:10:33,427 --> 01:10:35,396
STEVEN: And I said,
"David, they're young."
1503
01:10:35,430 --> 01:10:37,633
One's three years old,
the other one's six.
1504
01:10:37,666 --> 01:10:39,701
DAVID: It's too messy for me
to be in your fucking life,
1505
01:10:39,734 --> 01:10:41,703
so save it. Save it, Steven.
1506
01:10:41,735 --> 01:10:43,305
I don't need this from you.
1507
01:10:43,337 --> 01:10:44,639
I don't need
this kind of insult.
1508
01:10:44,672 --> 01:10:46,541
I fucking face this every day
1509
01:10:46,573 --> 01:10:49,377
and I don't need it
from "family."
1510
01:10:49,411 --> 01:10:50,746
You understand?
1511
01:10:50,779 --> 01:10:52,714
Well, let the conversation end,
Steve.
1512
01:10:52,747 --> 01:10:54,883
We never see each other again.
Goodbye.
1513
01:10:54,916 --> 01:10:56,818
[phone slams shut]
1514
01:10:56,850 --> 01:10:58,686
STEVEN: And then,
I never saw him again.
1515
01:11:00,387 --> 01:11:04,059
[thunder rumbles]
1516
01:11:04,091 --> 01:11:06,527
DAVID: I'm just feeling
pretty crazy recently,
1517
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:08,496
lot of anxiety.
1518
01:11:08,529 --> 01:11:11,766
At some point I realize
I was just afraid of dying.
1519
01:11:13,435 --> 01:11:15,604
Throughout all my life
I've tried to maintain
1520
01:11:15,636 --> 01:11:18,606
some kind of complete control
of myself
1521
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:20,475
and where I've come from.
1522
01:11:20,507 --> 01:11:22,043
All the scenes
as a kid hustling
1523
01:11:22,077 --> 01:11:23,612
and all the scenes
in the streets.
1524
01:11:23,645 --> 01:11:25,614
Sometimes I came close
to death,
1525
01:11:25,646 --> 01:11:28,015
and the times
that I nearly starved,
1526
01:11:28,048 --> 01:11:32,019
maybe a need for self-control,
this... to mask,
1527
01:11:32,052 --> 01:11:36,524
this enormous rage that I carry
or may carry
1528
01:11:36,557 --> 01:11:39,027
from all those experiences.
1529
01:11:39,060 --> 01:11:42,030
I guess I fear loss of
control, let that rage,
1530
01:11:42,063 --> 01:11:44,533
It'll spill
and become indiscriminate
1531
01:11:44,565 --> 01:11:46,702
in terms of what it attacks.
1532
01:11:46,734 --> 01:11:50,438
But really and truly I think
I'm afraid of losing my mind
1533
01:11:50,471 --> 01:11:53,541
at some point
to some degenerative disease
1534
01:11:53,574 --> 01:11:57,479
like meningitis, or seizures,
or whatever.
1535
01:11:57,511 --> 01:12:01,716
I don't wanna lose touch
with words.
1536
01:12:01,750 --> 01:12:05,386
I wanna be able to provoke
some change
1537
01:12:05,420 --> 01:12:07,655
in whatever limited fashion
1538
01:12:07,689 --> 01:12:09,891
in people, in a person.
1539
01:12:09,923 --> 01:12:11,726
And I always had this fantasy
1540
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:13,795
that if I were
to ever become ill
1541
01:12:13,828 --> 01:12:17,099
and if I were to become so weak
that I couldn't leave the house
1542
01:12:17,131 --> 01:12:19,634
which is another fear for me,
1543
01:12:19,667 --> 01:12:22,504
or at least be able to tap
at a fucking keyboard
1544
01:12:22,537 --> 01:12:24,740
even if it's with a pencil
held between my teeth
1545
01:12:24,773 --> 01:12:27,641
touching each key
letter for letter,
1546
01:12:27,675 --> 01:12:30,078
despite rage, despite illness,
1547
01:12:30,110 --> 01:12:33,414
despite pain,
I hope that my mind...
1548
01:12:34,948 --> 01:12:36,617
...continues.
1549
01:12:38,619 --> 01:12:40,921
MARION SCEMAMA:
AIDS was revealing exactly
1550
01:12:40,954 --> 01:12:43,591
what society was about.
1551
01:12:43,625 --> 01:12:45,659
That was already there
in his work,
1552
01:12:45,693 --> 01:12:48,130
he knew already
what the world was about.
1553
01:12:48,162 --> 01:12:51,098
He knew the structure
that sustained power.
1554
01:12:51,131 --> 01:12:53,701
He knew in the manipulation
of people
1555
01:12:53,734 --> 01:12:55,737
who would like
to live differently.
1556
01:12:55,770 --> 01:12:57,639
So the illness became a weapon
1557
01:12:57,671 --> 01:13:00,541
against politics
of the society.
1558
01:13:00,574 --> 01:13:02,676
DAVID: When I was diagnosed
with this virus,
1559
01:13:02,710 --> 01:13:04,813
it didn't take me long
to realize
1560
01:13:04,845 --> 01:13:08,616
I contracted a diseased
society as well.
1561
01:13:08,649 --> 01:13:10,418
CROWD: Stand tough, stand tall,
1562
01:13:10,452 --> 01:13:12,119
it's time to march
on city hall.
1563
01:13:12,153 --> 01:13:14,122
REPORTER: Thousands
of demonstrators demand
1564
01:13:14,154 --> 01:13:15,923
that New York City
do more to help
1565
01:13:15,957 --> 01:13:17,659
those suffering from AIDS.
1566
01:13:17,692 --> 01:13:20,694
CROWD: Healthcare is a right.
Healthcare is a right.
1567
01:13:20,728 --> 01:13:23,431
NARRATOR: The scene
evoked memories of the '60s.
1568
01:13:23,465 --> 01:13:24,966
MAN: Civil rights or civil war?
1569
01:13:24,998 --> 01:13:27,668
MAN: David and I
went to Act Up meetings.
1570
01:13:27,702 --> 01:13:29,137
We marched with Act Up.
1571
01:13:29,170 --> 01:13:30,971
The city is dying.
1572
01:13:31,005 --> 01:13:32,574
DAVID: In some level,
the most interesting thing
1573
01:13:32,606 --> 01:13:34,141
that they have is information
1574
01:13:34,175 --> 01:13:36,478
of what was happening
in the hospitals.
1575
01:13:37,712 --> 01:13:40,882
[baby crying]
1576
01:13:40,914 --> 01:13:43,118
DAVID: They were strapping
minority babies to beds
1577
01:13:43,150 --> 01:13:45,921
and giving half of them
placebos.
1578
01:13:45,953 --> 01:13:47,621
Basically,
they're stealing these babies
1579
01:13:47,654 --> 01:13:49,457
from their parents saying,
1580
01:13:49,490 --> 01:13:51,827
"This is the only way
your baby can get treatment.
1581
01:13:51,859 --> 01:13:53,627
Sign this form,"
1582
01:13:53,661 --> 01:13:57,698
killing half of them purposely
with placebos.
1583
01:13:57,731 --> 01:14:00,668
That alone I thought
was so outrageous.
1584
01:14:00,702 --> 01:14:02,170
And all these
information packages
1585
01:14:02,203 --> 01:14:04,473
were given to the media,
I thought,
1586
01:14:04,506 --> 01:14:06,575
"Well, Jesus,
this will change everything."
1587
01:14:06,608 --> 01:14:08,109
I mean, how naive I was.
1588
01:14:08,141 --> 01:14:10,211
CROWD: Forty something death
per day.
1589
01:14:10,244 --> 01:14:12,079
Where was the help?
1590
01:14:12,113 --> 01:14:17,118
SINGER: ♪ Don't treat me
like a science toy ♪
1591
01:14:17,150 --> 01:14:20,154
TOM: We went down to Washington
when Act Up demonstrated
1592
01:14:20,188 --> 01:14:22,824
at the FDA.
1593
01:14:22,856 --> 01:14:25,092
REPORTER: Hundreds
of angry demonstrators
1594
01:14:25,126 --> 01:14:28,030
effectively shut down
the FDA today.
1595
01:14:29,096 --> 01:14:30,898
DAVID: First in his land.
1596
01:14:30,931 --> 01:14:33,868
[music]
1597
01:14:37,271 --> 01:14:39,707
Demonstrators say the AIDS
crisis and the anger over it
1598
01:14:39,740 --> 01:14:41,576
continue to grow every day.
1599
01:14:41,609 --> 01:14:43,979
Charging that the government
response to the AIDS disease
1600
01:14:44,011 --> 01:14:45,546
is woefully inadequate,
1601
01:14:45,579 --> 01:14:47,649
they say the demonstrations
will continue.
1602
01:14:47,681 --> 01:14:49,650
MAN: Until I die.
1603
01:14:49,684 --> 01:14:51,619
TOM:
Our group made these tombstones
1604
01:14:51,653 --> 01:14:53,722
and then laid down
like we were dying.
1605
01:14:53,755 --> 01:14:55,556
[indistinct chatter]
1606
01:14:55,590 --> 01:14:57,225
CROWD: Fight until we die.
1607
01:14:57,257 --> 01:14:59,728
MAN: Behind the barricade.
1608
01:14:59,761 --> 01:15:00,862
Behind the barricade.
1609
01:15:00,895 --> 01:15:02,564
TOM: And so they arrested us.
1610
01:15:02,596 --> 01:15:04,733
But it got headlines.
1611
01:15:04,765 --> 01:15:08,002
Photographs of the tombstones
came up many times.
1612
01:15:08,036 --> 01:15:09,637
CROWD: One, two, three, four.
1613
01:15:09,671 --> 01:15:11,539
Civil rights or civil war.
1614
01:15:11,573 --> 01:15:13,173
TOM: David got arrested
a couple more times.
1615
01:15:13,207 --> 01:15:14,809
MAN: Civil rights or civil war.
1616
01:15:14,841 --> 01:15:16,176
DAVID: For my own taste,
I wish they
1617
01:15:16,210 --> 01:15:18,012
would get a little bit
more violent,
1618
01:15:18,046 --> 01:15:20,048
express it a little stronger.
1619
01:15:20,081 --> 01:15:22,751
That was one of the few things
that people will respond to.
1620
01:15:22,783 --> 01:15:24,952
And I'm waking up more and more
from daydreams
1621
01:15:24,985 --> 01:15:28,256
of tipping Amazonian blowdarts
in 'infected blood'
1622
01:15:28,288 --> 01:15:30,024
and spitting them
at the exposed necklines
1623
01:15:30,057 --> 01:15:31,792
of certain politicians.
1624
01:15:31,826 --> 01:15:34,029
I'm not gonna be polite,
and fuck these people
1625
01:15:34,061 --> 01:15:36,030
that want me to be courageous.
1626
01:15:36,064 --> 01:15:38,967
You know, I resent that,
"Oh, how great he was,
1627
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:40,702
how courageous he was."
1628
01:15:40,734 --> 01:15:42,938
All the way up to the end.
1629
01:15:42,970 --> 01:15:46,007
There's no expression in that
other than silence.
1630
01:15:48,710 --> 01:15:51,279
DAVID: Somebody once said to me
that if you spit
1631
01:15:51,311 --> 01:15:55,317
a piece of gum on the sidewalk,
it's nothing,
1632
01:15:55,350 --> 01:15:57,986
but if ten people
or a hundred people,
1633
01:15:58,019 --> 01:16:00,121
or a thousand people
spit their gum
1634
01:16:00,154 --> 01:16:03,291
onto the same sidewalk
people have to deal with it,
1635
01:16:03,323 --> 01:16:06,594
they become stuck in it
when they walk through it.
1636
01:16:06,627 --> 01:16:09,197
And I see that as part
of a relationship
1637
01:16:09,229 --> 01:16:11,131
with art.
1638
01:16:11,164 --> 01:16:14,802
When people put themselves
on the line in their work,
1639
01:16:14,836 --> 01:16:17,706
whether it's music, writing,
photography, painting,
1640
01:16:17,738 --> 01:16:21,241
or whatever in terms of Culture
with a capital C,
1641
01:16:21,274 --> 01:16:24,278
they apply a tiny amount
of pressure
1642
01:16:24,311 --> 01:16:27,349
against the system of control
1643
01:16:27,381 --> 01:16:30,150
that would willingly jump
into fascism
1644
01:16:30,184 --> 01:16:33,622
if there wasn't enough pressure
on its throat.
1645
01:16:33,654 --> 01:16:35,090
[music]
1646
01:16:35,122 --> 01:16:36,957
[beeping]
1647
01:16:36,990 --> 01:16:39,860
DAVID: We are born
into a pre-invented existence
1648
01:16:39,894 --> 01:16:42,797
within a tribal nation
of zombies.
1649
01:16:42,829 --> 01:16:45,166
The government
has a day-to-day job,
1650
01:16:45,198 --> 01:16:47,902
maintaining an illusion
of a one-tribe nation.
1651
01:16:47,935 --> 01:16:50,205
And inside
of that one-tribe nation,
1652
01:16:50,238 --> 01:16:52,941
there's actually millions
of tribes.
1653
01:16:52,974 --> 01:16:56,144
Historically, minorities
have always been expendable
1654
01:16:56,176 --> 01:16:57,345
in this country.
1655
01:16:59,046 --> 01:17:01,815
Historically, art was made
1656
01:17:01,849 --> 01:17:03,652
by certain classes of people
1657
01:17:03,685 --> 01:17:06,121
for certain classes
of people.
1658
01:17:06,154 --> 01:17:09,357
What I make in my work
is a record of things
1659
01:17:09,390 --> 01:17:14,128
that challenges the record
that we're given daily,
1660
01:17:14,162 --> 01:17:17,365
whether it's in the newspapers,
through the television,
1661
01:17:17,398 --> 01:17:19,734
or through the politicians.
1662
01:17:19,766 --> 01:17:21,368
WOMAN: I've chosen to stay
and fight.
1663
01:17:21,402 --> 01:17:23,971
I've chosen to stay and fight.
1664
01:17:30,110 --> 01:17:32,380
DAVID:
If I were a violent person,
1665
01:17:32,412 --> 01:17:35,250
I would go
into the nation's capital
1666
01:17:35,283 --> 01:17:38,319
and start annihilating
the people that I believe
1667
01:17:38,351 --> 01:17:41,689
responsible for this
pre-invented existence,
1668
01:17:41,722 --> 01:17:44,393
but the originators
are long dead.
1669
01:17:45,926 --> 01:17:47,461
The way things
are set in motion
1670
01:17:47,494 --> 01:17:49,130
in terms of society,
1671
01:17:49,162 --> 01:17:51,098
it's like a machine
that runs itself
1672
01:17:51,131 --> 01:17:54,435
that can't stop.
It can run by itself,
1673
01:17:54,469 --> 01:17:58,073
think by itself,
police enforce it,
1674
01:17:58,105 --> 01:18:00,074
- schools enforce it.
- [bell ringing]
1675
01:18:00,108 --> 01:18:02,210
DAVID: Government officials
enforce it.
1676
01:18:02,243 --> 01:18:05,747
Even the stupidity
of large populations
1677
01:18:05,779 --> 01:18:08,048
enforce it.
1678
01:18:08,082 --> 01:18:11,153
DAVID: Raise all the glory
while we do it to them again.
1679
01:18:12,854 --> 01:18:17,324
[crowd chatter]
1680
01:18:17,358 --> 01:18:19,260
DAVID: Cardinal O'Connor
has helped tens of thousands
1681
01:18:19,292 --> 01:18:21,161
of people
to their unnecessary deaths
1682
01:18:21,194 --> 01:18:24,064
through the denial of pertinent
safe sex information.
1683
01:18:24,097 --> 01:18:26,501
He obviously prefers coffins
to condoms.
1684
01:18:26,533 --> 01:18:29,237
- Safe sex information.
- Find out why we're here today.
1685
01:18:29,270 --> 01:18:31,039
This is Jesus Christ.
1686
01:18:31,072 --> 01:18:33,875
I am in front of St. Patrick's
Cathedral on Sunday.
1687
01:18:33,908 --> 01:18:36,377
We're here reporting
on a major AIDS activist
1688
01:18:36,409 --> 01:18:38,947
and abortion rights activist
demonstration.
1689
01:18:38,979 --> 01:18:41,115
Inside, Cardinal O'Connor
1690
01:18:41,149 --> 01:18:43,785
is busy spreading his lies
and rumors
1691
01:18:43,818 --> 01:18:45,954
about the position
of lesbians and gays.
1692
01:18:45,987 --> 01:18:47,422
DAVID: They act as if...
because there's this
1693
01:18:47,454 --> 01:18:49,189
abstract idea
of what religion is,
1694
01:18:49,222 --> 01:18:50,891
of what God is,
1695
01:18:50,925 --> 01:18:52,827
that this man is untouchable
and he's not.
1696
01:18:52,859 --> 01:18:54,429
And this church
can be shut down
1697
01:18:54,462 --> 01:18:56,464
the same way he shuts down
abortion clinics,
1698
01:18:56,497 --> 01:18:59,300
the same way he prevents people
getting information
1699
01:18:59,332 --> 01:19:01,536
or making personal decisions
about their life,
1700
01:19:01,569 --> 01:19:03,371
he can be shut down.
1701
01:19:05,305 --> 01:19:06,807
Is the green light on?
1702
01:19:06,841 --> 01:19:08,176
PHIL: Green light's not on
but, uh...
1703
01:19:08,208 --> 01:19:09,877
- DAVID: Let's see this.
- PHIL: Yeah.
1704
01:19:09,911 --> 01:19:11,246
- The green light's on.
- DAVID: Yeah. So it's on.
1705
01:19:11,279 --> 01:19:13,214
- PHIL: It's rolling?
- DAVID: Yeah.
1706
01:19:13,247 --> 01:19:15,517
REPORTER: East Germany today
took down the Berlin Wall.
1707
01:19:15,550 --> 01:19:18,286
BARRY: Back at that time,
David had a big body of work
1708
01:19:18,319 --> 01:19:21,089
and it was really strong stuff
but his career,
1709
01:19:21,122 --> 01:19:23,057
kind of, flattened out.
1710
01:19:23,090 --> 01:19:26,828
The publicity from his
contribution to the catalogue
1711
01:19:26,860 --> 01:19:28,796
for Witnesses:
Against Our Vanishing.
1712
01:19:28,829 --> 01:19:30,899
And Artists Space
was what brought him
1713
01:19:30,931 --> 01:19:32,800
to the national stage,
1714
01:19:32,833 --> 01:19:36,003
and it wasn't for an artwork,
it was for an essay
1715
01:19:36,037 --> 01:19:38,306
that he wrote in the catalogue.
1716
01:19:38,338 --> 01:19:40,041
DAVID: I...
1717
01:19:40,073 --> 01:19:41,809
I wouldn't say derogatory,
you know,
1718
01:19:41,842 --> 01:19:43,577
I don't think
I'm-I'm being that critical.
1719
01:19:43,610 --> 01:19:46,447
NAN GOLDIN: I asked David
to write for the catalogue.
1720
01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:48,215
There aren't such
intense people
1721
01:19:48,248 --> 01:19:50,518
in the world anymore.
But he was a genius
1722
01:19:50,551 --> 01:19:53,988
which I don't use
for anyone else I can think of.
1723
01:19:54,020 --> 01:19:56,423
BARRY: David's essay
was talking about
1724
01:19:56,457 --> 01:20:00,528
how the imagination
was the last frontier
1725
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:03,230
for creative freedom,
1726
01:20:03,264 --> 01:20:05,533
that in his imagination
1727
01:20:05,565 --> 01:20:08,302
he can douse Jesse Helms
with gasoline
1728
01:20:08,336 --> 01:20:11,840
and set his putrid ass on fire,
I quote,
1729
01:20:11,872 --> 01:20:15,609
or throw William Dannemeyer
off the Empire State Building
1730
01:20:15,643 --> 01:20:18,980
and made a reference
to Cardinal O'Connor,
1731
01:20:19,012 --> 01:20:20,480
total enemy of the state,
1732
01:20:20,514 --> 01:20:24,418
called him that fat cannibal
in skirts
1733
01:20:24,452 --> 01:20:27,155
in the house
of walking swastikas.
1734
01:20:28,355 --> 01:20:31,592
Now, this didn't play well
1735
01:20:31,626 --> 01:20:33,595
with the establishment.
1736
01:20:33,627 --> 01:20:36,130
Tonight, a Manhattan art
exhibit about AIDS
1737
01:20:36,162 --> 01:20:37,898
is losing a lot
of federal money
1738
01:20:37,931 --> 01:20:40,234
because of what
will be shown in the exhibit.
1739
01:20:40,268 --> 01:20:42,203
The chairman of the NEA states,
1740
01:20:42,235 --> 01:20:44,338
"We find that a large portion
of the content
1741
01:20:44,372 --> 01:20:47,075
is political rather than
artistic in nature."
1742
01:20:47,108 --> 01:20:49,543
It's a fact that I maybe
dying of AIDS in 1989.
1743
01:20:49,577 --> 01:20:51,246
Is that not political?
1744
01:20:51,279 --> 01:20:53,147
It's a fact that I don't have
health insurance
1745
01:20:53,180 --> 01:20:55,316
and I don't have access
to adequate healthcare.
1746
01:20:55,349 --> 01:20:58,485
Is that not political?
1747
01:20:58,519 --> 01:21:01,489
And I, you know,
I think that says it clearly.
1748
01:21:01,521 --> 01:21:04,958
BARRY: This is Washington
and Helms was on a rampage.
1749
01:21:04,992 --> 01:21:07,061
He'd already racked up
Mapplethorpe,
1750
01:21:07,094 --> 01:21:09,264
gotten the Corcoran
to cancel their show.
1751
01:21:09,296 --> 01:21:11,198
He'd already racked up
Piss Christ.
1752
01:21:11,231 --> 01:21:13,100
I mean, this was the time
1753
01:21:13,134 --> 01:21:15,435
and they were looking
for the trifecta,
1754
01:21:15,469 --> 01:21:17,605
the third thing,
and David Wojnarowicz
1755
01:21:17,637 --> 01:21:19,306
was perfect for this.
1756
01:21:19,340 --> 01:21:22,510
This senator is unwilling
to spend one penny.
1757
01:21:22,542 --> 01:21:24,679
I'm saddened to see that, um,
1758
01:21:24,712 --> 01:21:28,116
Congress might not feel
that this show
1759
01:21:28,149 --> 01:21:30,919
should be supported
by the American taxpayer.
1760
01:21:30,952 --> 01:21:33,954
Is this about homophobia
or what is it about?
1761
01:21:33,988 --> 01:21:35,556
I... I'm confused by it.
1762
01:21:35,588 --> 01:21:37,190
PHIL:
What are you thinking about?
1763
01:21:37,224 --> 01:21:39,127
I mean, no. Just that,
uh, you know,
1764
01:21:39,159 --> 01:21:41,395
I'm talking to this
journalist from the Times,
1765
01:21:41,429 --> 01:21:43,463
you know, he said that the NEA
is claiming
1766
01:21:43,497 --> 01:21:45,266
that what I said was horrible,
monstrous,
1767
01:21:45,298 --> 01:21:47,201
you know,
inflammatory, this, that.
1768
01:21:47,234 --> 01:21:49,537
The most terrible things that
they can't even repeat them.
1769
01:21:49,569 --> 01:21:51,972
And I said like, "A study done
on violence
1770
01:21:52,006 --> 01:21:54,676
in America found that
there was increasing numbers
1771
01:21:54,708 --> 01:21:57,010
of homosexual teenagers
that were murdered
1772
01:21:57,043 --> 01:21:58,378
or beaten up.
1773
01:21:58,412 --> 01:22:00,213
And that Dannemeyer
tried to suppress
1774
01:22:00,247 --> 01:22:01,615
that part of the study
1775
01:22:01,649 --> 01:22:03,618
because it contained
the word homosexual.
1776
01:22:03,650 --> 01:22:07,020
Therefore, William Dannemeyer
condones the murder
1777
01:22:07,054 --> 01:22:09,657
and terrorizing
of homosexual teenagers
1778
01:22:09,689 --> 01:22:11,558
and no gesture
I could make could
1779
01:22:11,591 --> 01:22:15,295
even approximate the violence
of what these people have done.
1780
01:22:15,328 --> 01:22:19,299
I'm not gonna sit still
and be silent about it.
1781
01:22:19,332 --> 01:22:21,134
PHIL: How heroic.
1782
01:22:21,167 --> 01:22:22,670
To the barricades!
1783
01:22:39,052 --> 01:22:40,621
PHIL: But what's happening now?
1784
01:22:40,654 --> 01:22:42,156
DAVID: Uh, Susan called up,
1785
01:22:42,189 --> 01:22:43,557
and it turns out that, uh,
1786
01:22:43,591 --> 01:22:45,326
the NEA approached Susan
1787
01:22:45,359 --> 01:22:47,395
and now they're doing
a joint press conference
1788
01:22:47,427 --> 01:22:49,697
issuing statements
and Susan does this paltry
1789
01:22:49,729 --> 01:22:53,033
liberal motherfucking stance
of here,
1790
01:22:53,067 --> 01:22:54,101
"I think there are
certain issues
1791
01:22:54,135 --> 01:22:55,670
that are not resolved here."
1792
01:22:55,703 --> 01:22:57,538
And I said,
"What the fuck are you doing?"
1793
01:22:57,570 --> 01:23:00,675
I said, "These assholes have
themselves against the wall
1794
01:23:00,707 --> 01:23:02,743
over all these issues,
over homophobia,
1795
01:23:02,777 --> 01:23:04,612
legislative silence
of homosexuals
1796
01:23:04,645 --> 01:23:06,481
and lesbians in this country.
1797
01:23:06,514 --> 01:23:08,649
What you're doing is you're
avoiding the whole fucking thing
1798
01:23:08,681 --> 01:23:11,118
for your funding. I said,
"You're a collaborator.
1799
01:23:11,152 --> 01:23:13,221
You and your board
and it's indicative
1800
01:23:13,253 --> 01:23:16,457
of the whole
fucking art world."
1801
01:23:16,489 --> 01:23:18,658
PHIL: David was more skeptical
1802
01:23:18,692 --> 01:23:20,627
and more negative
about the art world
1803
01:23:20,661 --> 01:23:22,430
than he was about Jesse Helms
1804
01:23:22,462 --> 01:23:24,431
because he thought
that curators of the art world
1805
01:23:24,465 --> 01:23:28,069
hid art with queer ideas
1806
01:23:28,101 --> 01:23:32,206
and just anything that was out
of the White one-tribe nation
1807
01:23:32,238 --> 01:23:34,442
as he said was being censored
by the museums.
1808
01:23:34,475 --> 01:23:37,111
You didn't need Jesse Helms
and people like that
1809
01:23:37,144 --> 01:23:40,614
because the museums were
already doing the job for you.
1810
01:23:40,648 --> 01:23:42,182
Okay, thanks.
1811
01:23:45,653 --> 01:23:46,654
Okay.
1812
01:23:48,255 --> 01:23:49,257
Okay.
1813
01:23:53,359 --> 01:23:54,694
PHIL: What happened?
1814
01:23:54,728 --> 01:23:56,797
She's fine.
She's, like, uh...
1815
01:23:58,466 --> 01:24:01,469
She said that she could say
in her statement
1816
01:24:01,502 --> 01:24:05,073
that this is a failure
of the government
1817
01:24:05,105 --> 01:24:09,143
to confront homophobia
in the society,
1818
01:24:09,176 --> 01:24:12,447
it's the legislation
into silence of homosexuals.
1819
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:17,084
And it's the failure to provide
safe sex information
1820
01:24:17,118 --> 01:24:18,419
to people with AIDS so that... uh,
1821
01:24:18,452 --> 01:24:21,389
so they can make
informed decisions.
1822
01:24:22,856 --> 01:24:24,391
PHIL: Did she say that
to the press?
1823
01:24:24,425 --> 01:24:25,827
This is her statement.
1824
01:24:25,859 --> 01:24:29,830
She's... and that she's gonna
thank me, uh,
1825
01:24:29,863 --> 01:24:31,598
from the bottom of her heart,
1826
01:24:31,631 --> 01:24:34,201
uh, for what she's learned.
1827
01:24:40,407 --> 01:24:43,244
I feel, you know, I feel
pretty emotional about it.
1828
01:24:46,814 --> 01:24:48,349
Oh, man.
1829
01:24:50,384 --> 01:24:53,320
[music]
1830
01:24:58,158 --> 01:25:00,494
MAN: This show does contain
10 years of work
1831
01:25:00,528 --> 01:25:03,664
starting with David's
early street stencil pieces
1832
01:25:03,697 --> 01:25:06,400
to work that was
just made yesterday
1833
01:25:06,432 --> 01:25:07,835
especially for this gallery.
1834
01:25:07,868 --> 01:25:09,403
So without further ado,
1835
01:25:09,435 --> 01:25:11,471
I like to introduce
David Wojnarowicz.
1836
01:25:11,505 --> 01:25:14,442
[applause]
1837
01:25:18,345 --> 01:25:20,780
DAVID:
Thanks a lot for coming tonight.
1838
01:25:20,814 --> 01:25:24,152
I don't think anybody expected
a crowd this big.
1839
01:25:24,185 --> 01:25:25,887
This is kind of strange
and emotional for me
1840
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:27,387
to be standing in a room
1841
01:25:27,421 --> 01:25:29,824
filled with artifacts
of my life.
1842
01:25:29,856 --> 01:25:31,792
Each painting, photograph,
and sculpture
1843
01:25:31,824 --> 01:25:34,494
has built into it
a particular frame of mind
1844
01:25:34,528 --> 01:25:35,796
that only I can know
1845
01:25:35,828 --> 01:25:37,497
given that I've always
felt alien
1846
01:25:37,530 --> 01:25:40,167
in this country
we call America.
1847
01:25:40,201 --> 01:25:43,337
If I say I'm homosexual,
is that something new to you?
1848
01:25:43,369 --> 01:25:45,372
Does that make you nervous?
1849
01:25:45,405 --> 01:25:47,175
Do you think
it would be a crime,
1850
01:25:47,207 --> 01:25:48,742
the denial of information
only killed people
1851
01:25:48,775 --> 01:25:50,411
that you didn't feel
comfortable with?
1852
01:25:50,444 --> 01:25:51,812
Do you stop to get to know
the person
1853
01:25:51,845 --> 01:25:53,581
you sit or walk next to
in this school?
1854
01:25:53,613 --> 01:25:55,348
Do you make it comfortable
for that person
1855
01:25:55,381 --> 01:25:57,751
to express ideas that
might change your ideas?
1856
01:25:57,784 --> 01:25:59,220
And I wake up every morning.
1857
01:25:59,252 --> 01:26:00,621
I wake up every morning
1858
01:26:00,654 --> 01:26:02,557
to this killing machine
called America.
1859
01:26:02,590 --> 01:26:04,824
And I'm carrying this rage
like a blood-filled egg
1860
01:26:04,858 --> 01:26:08,195
as each T cell disappears
from my body
1861
01:26:08,229 --> 01:26:09,963
and is replaced by
10 pounds of pressure,
1862
01:26:09,997 --> 01:26:11,865
10 pounds of rage.
1863
01:26:11,899 --> 01:26:14,468
And I focus that rage
into non-violent resistance
1864
01:26:14,501 --> 01:26:16,369
but the focus
is starting to slip
1865
01:26:16,403 --> 01:26:18,773
and the egg
is starting to crack.
1866
01:26:18,805 --> 01:26:19,773
Thank you.
1867
01:26:19,806 --> 01:26:21,375
[applause]
1868
01:26:21,408 --> 01:26:23,611
PHIL:
David became the local hero
1869
01:26:23,644 --> 01:26:28,349
in a town that needed a voice
like this so badly.
1870
01:26:28,381 --> 01:26:30,217
DAVID:
When I first went out there,
1871
01:26:30,251 --> 01:26:32,420
I knew that it was like
a fairly conservative town.
1872
01:26:32,453 --> 01:26:34,555
I mean, I had fantasies
of people with pitchforks
1873
01:26:34,587 --> 01:26:35,956
storming the gallery.
1874
01:26:37,925 --> 01:26:39,560
In the days that followed,
1875
01:26:39,592 --> 01:26:40,927
people would come running over
to talk to me
1876
01:26:40,961 --> 01:26:42,797
when they spotted me.
1877
01:26:42,829 --> 01:26:46,800
It was an extremely emotional
positive response.
1878
01:26:46,833 --> 01:26:48,402
BARRY:
I should probably tell you
1879
01:26:48,435 --> 01:26:50,705
how the controversy happened
1880
01:26:50,738 --> 01:26:54,275
about a month into the show.
1881
01:26:54,307 --> 01:26:56,676
There was one page in the book.
It was a black and white,
1882
01:26:56,710 --> 01:27:01,515
homage to Jean Genet
who is one of David's heroes.
1883
01:27:01,547 --> 01:27:03,416
I didn't know it was in color.
1884
01:27:03,449 --> 01:27:04,818
He just gave us the black
and white
1885
01:27:04,851 --> 01:27:07,587
when we put it in the book.
1886
01:27:07,621 --> 01:27:10,958
Jean Genet has a plate over his
head that looks like a halo.
1887
01:27:10,990 --> 01:27:13,560
There's angels with Tommy Guns,
1888
01:27:13,594 --> 01:27:15,596
and in the right-hand corner,
1889
01:27:15,628 --> 01:27:18,698
there's a picture
of Jesus Christ
1890
01:27:18,731 --> 01:27:20,835
with a hypodermic in his arm.
1891
01:27:22,935 --> 01:27:24,804
It didn't make
no never mind to me,
1892
01:27:24,837 --> 01:27:27,942
but one of the people
that got a hold of the book
1893
01:27:27,975 --> 01:27:29,377
was Dana Rohrabacher,
1894
01:27:29,409 --> 01:27:30,510
the right wing politician
1895
01:27:30,543 --> 01:27:33,314
from Orange County, California.
1896
01:27:38,752 --> 01:27:42,990
Rohrabacher put together
a screed
1897
01:27:43,023 --> 01:27:46,761
with a Xerox image of Christ
with the injectable
1898
01:27:46,793 --> 01:27:48,595
talking about,
1899
01:27:48,628 --> 01:27:51,532
"Do you know what your NEA
money is going for?
1900
01:27:51,564 --> 01:27:53,933
15,000 went to a show
1901
01:27:53,966 --> 01:27:58,305
that has anal
and oral homosexual sex,
1902
01:27:58,338 --> 01:27:59,739
it's like a circus.
1903
01:27:59,773 --> 01:28:01,976
This exhibition,
Tongues of Flame,
1904
01:28:02,009 --> 01:28:05,979
is an orgy
of degenerate depravity."
1905
01:28:06,012 --> 01:28:08,949
[music]
1906
01:28:20,860 --> 01:28:23,797
BARRY: Then I started getting
letters and threats
1907
01:28:23,831 --> 01:28:26,900
from people
to the university saying,
1908
01:28:26,934 --> 01:28:28,668
"We hear you have
this exhibition
1909
01:28:28,702 --> 01:28:32,039
that is morally unacceptable."
1910
01:28:32,072 --> 01:28:34,074
People would come to the show.
1911
01:28:36,944 --> 01:28:39,547
And I'd end up
having contests with them
1912
01:28:39,579 --> 01:28:41,015
about who can quote
the Bible better,
1913
01:28:41,047 --> 01:28:42,849
me or them.
1914
01:28:42,882 --> 01:28:44,385
I'm trying to explain to them
1915
01:28:44,417 --> 01:28:45,952
that Jesus was
the man of sorrows
1916
01:28:45,985 --> 01:28:48,521
and he was here to cleanse us
of our sins.
1917
01:28:48,555 --> 01:28:51,726
And if that meant
taking on the pain of a junky,
1918
01:28:51,759 --> 01:28:53,828
then that's what Christ
would have to do.
1919
01:28:55,895 --> 01:28:57,831
[music]
1920
01:29:01,868 --> 01:29:03,403
BARRY: Then all of a sudden,
1921
01:29:03,436 --> 01:29:06,707
I get a copy
of a two-page pamphlet
1922
01:29:06,739 --> 01:29:10,543
that has excerpts
of David's greatest hits
1923
01:29:10,577 --> 01:29:11,945
from Donald Wildmon
1924
01:29:11,979 --> 01:29:15,883
and the American Family
Association.
1925
01:29:15,916 --> 01:29:20,020
Donald Wildmon got Pepsi
to stop using Madonna
1926
01:29:20,052 --> 01:29:23,657
as a spokesperson because
of cones that she was wearing
1927
01:29:23,689 --> 01:29:26,760
and she was being
anti-religious
1928
01:29:26,793 --> 01:29:28,095
and evidently
that had been sent
1929
01:29:28,127 --> 01:29:30,029
to thousands of church-goers
1930
01:29:30,063 --> 01:29:32,733
and any senator or congressman
1931
01:29:32,765 --> 01:29:35,435
who hadn't gotten it
from Rohrabacher.
1932
01:29:35,469 --> 01:29:38,605
I sent that to David
and I said,
1933
01:29:38,639 --> 01:29:40,074
"Look at this."
1934
01:29:40,106 --> 01:29:43,511
And that's when the shit
hit the fan.
1935
01:29:45,479 --> 01:29:48,048
[music]
1936
01:29:48,081 --> 01:29:50,083
TERRY GROSS: Coming up,
Wojnarowicz explains
1937
01:29:50,117 --> 01:29:52,653
why he's suing a group
that's trying to cut off
1938
01:29:52,685 --> 01:29:54,487
government funding
of the arts.
1939
01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:56,823
DAVID: Donald Wildmon went
through a catalogue,
1940
01:29:56,856 --> 01:29:58,626
went through it
with a pair of scissors.
1941
01:29:58,658 --> 01:30:00,927
He searched out
what he perceived to be
1942
01:30:00,961 --> 01:30:03,431
tiny details of paintings
or photographs
1943
01:30:03,463 --> 01:30:06,132
that involved in the portrayal
of sexual activity.
1944
01:30:06,166 --> 01:30:09,837
Sometimes, using less than two
percent of a single painting.
1945
01:30:09,869 --> 01:30:13,940
He represented these mutilated
fragments as my work.
1946
01:30:13,974 --> 01:30:16,944
TERRY: This week, Wojnarowicz
took Wildmon to court
1947
01:30:16,976 --> 01:30:18,878
for violating his copyright
1948
01:30:18,912 --> 01:30:22,149
and distorting his work
by taking it out of context.
1949
01:30:22,181 --> 01:30:27,153
WENDY OLSOFF: What I remember
was the whole courtroom
1950
01:30:27,186 --> 01:30:30,457
completely full of artists
and friends of David,
1951
01:30:30,490 --> 01:30:32,493
and Reverend Wildmon
sitting there
1952
01:30:32,525 --> 01:30:35,061
like he was in hell,
like in his mind
1953
01:30:35,095 --> 01:30:36,864
in the most awful place
1954
01:30:36,896 --> 01:30:38,666
that the Lord
could have possibly put him
1955
01:30:38,698 --> 01:30:41,167
there was... full of sinners
and Sodomites
1956
01:30:41,201 --> 01:30:43,203
and blasphemers all around him.
1957
01:30:43,237 --> 01:30:44,872
WOMAN:
And people dressed in black.
1958
01:30:44,904 --> 01:30:45,872
WENDY: And everyone's
dressed in black
1959
01:30:45,905 --> 01:30:47,541
and he looked tortured.
1960
01:30:47,573 --> 01:30:50,510
[music]
1961
01:31:01,889 --> 01:31:05,025
FRAN: This is something
that I argued with David about
1962
01:31:05,057 --> 01:31:07,560
numerous times.
And David was sick.
1963
01:31:07,594 --> 01:31:11,030
I said to him, "You know, you
don't have this time to waste.
1964
01:31:11,064 --> 01:31:13,000
You're not gonna change
their minds.
1965
01:31:13,033 --> 01:31:14,902
They don't have minds.
1966
01:31:14,935 --> 01:31:17,137
The so-called ideas
of these people like Wildmon,
1967
01:31:17,170 --> 01:31:18,838
they're not ideas.
1968
01:31:18,872 --> 01:31:21,242
They are aspects of bigotry.
1969
01:31:21,274 --> 01:31:23,009
There are always people
like this.
1970
01:31:23,042 --> 01:31:24,944
Sometimes they're more powerful
than others."
1971
01:31:24,978 --> 01:31:27,981
That was a moment of power
for those kind of churches
1972
01:31:28,015 --> 01:31:30,684
and those kind of people.
We're in one now, again.
1973
01:31:30,716 --> 01:31:32,719
But in between,
they lost power.
1974
01:31:32,752 --> 01:31:36,523
And in the end, they never have
the power as an artist.
1975
01:31:36,556 --> 01:31:38,692
David Wojnarowicz
is more valuable
1976
01:31:38,725 --> 01:31:40,794
than every one of these
preachers that ever lived
1977
01:31:40,827 --> 01:31:45,266
as a person and as what
he put into the world.
1978
01:31:45,298 --> 01:31:48,034
WENDY: David was being cast
as that angry young man
1979
01:31:48,068 --> 01:31:50,538
who was just screaming
all the time.
1980
01:31:50,570 --> 01:31:54,007
And people had told him
that he was not a good painter.
1981
01:31:54,041 --> 01:31:56,978
[music]
1982
01:31:59,579 --> 01:32:01,180
WENDY:
So, he was challenging himself
1983
01:32:01,213 --> 01:32:04,952
to make beautiful paintings
of flowers.
1984
01:32:04,984 --> 01:32:07,787
But within that, of course,
he put his writing.
1985
01:32:07,820 --> 01:32:12,792
And he did it in a way
that melded with the pictures.
1986
01:32:12,826 --> 01:32:14,828
But as you read the works,
1987
01:32:14,860 --> 01:32:16,262
you realized
he was telling stories
1988
01:32:16,296 --> 01:32:19,667
of death and politics.
1989
01:32:19,699 --> 01:32:22,970
I mean, it's just a really sad,
beautiful show.
1990
01:32:25,005 --> 01:32:27,740
DAVID: I wonder what this
little bug does in the world,
1991
01:32:27,774 --> 01:32:29,644
what his job is.
1992
01:32:31,877 --> 01:32:34,948
And if this little bug dies,
1993
01:32:34,981 --> 01:32:36,850
if the world feels it,
1994
01:32:36,882 --> 01:32:38,652
I mean,
does the Earth feel it?
1995
01:32:38,685 --> 01:32:42,056
Does the world get a little
lighter in the rotation?
1996
01:32:42,088 --> 01:32:43,858
MAN: There's another one here.
1997
01:32:45,359 --> 01:32:48,596
DAVID:
So, you think they're married?
1998
01:32:48,628 --> 01:32:51,666
Or are they homosexuals
on vacation?
1999
01:32:52,832 --> 01:32:54,233
[music]
2000
01:32:54,266 --> 01:32:57,304
MARION:
David was HIV-positive in '88.
2001
01:32:57,337 --> 01:33:00,341
I went to New York a lot,
a lot of the time,
2002
01:33:00,373 --> 01:33:03,010
to work with him until 1991.
2003
01:33:03,042 --> 01:33:06,947
I mean, for me, he wasn't sick.
2004
01:33:06,979 --> 01:33:10,884
You couldn't see on his face,
on his body he was sick.
2005
01:33:10,917 --> 01:33:13,053
Until the last trip we did,
2006
01:33:13,086 --> 01:33:17,958
there's one moment where I felt
this virus took his mind.
2007
01:33:17,990 --> 01:33:19,926
[engine revving]
2008
01:33:22,029 --> 01:33:26,266
MARION: May 1991, we did
this trip in the Southwest.
2009
01:33:26,298 --> 01:33:30,136
[engine revving]
2010
01:33:30,170 --> 01:33:32,640
MARION:
We were in Death Valley driving
2011
01:33:32,672 --> 01:33:34,807
and I said to David,
"Let's stop here.
2012
01:33:34,841 --> 01:33:38,078
I would like to take photos."
2013
01:33:38,110 --> 01:33:40,814
David said, "Look,
I'm not really feeling good.
2014
01:33:40,846 --> 01:33:42,649
I stay in the car. Go on.
2015
01:33:42,682 --> 01:33:44,283
I just want to stay here."
2016
01:33:44,317 --> 01:33:45,319
[car door slams]
2017
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:51,125
MARION: I don't know.
Maybe I left half hour.
2018
01:33:54,094 --> 01:33:55,996
Then I came back to the car
2019
01:33:56,029 --> 01:34:00,668
and David was laying down
with the seat down.
2020
01:34:00,701 --> 01:34:02,670
He was, like...
2021
01:34:02,703 --> 01:34:06,073
white, completely white.
2022
01:34:06,105 --> 01:34:08,742
I said, "David."
And he didn't answer to me.
2023
01:34:08,774 --> 01:34:10,009
He wasn't sleeping.
2024
01:34:10,042 --> 01:34:11,878
His eyes were open.
2025
01:34:11,912 --> 01:34:15,115
And then he looked at me
2026
01:34:15,148 --> 01:34:17,885
and he wasn't there.
2027
01:34:17,917 --> 01:34:21,087
He was somewhere.
I don't know where.
2028
01:34:21,121 --> 01:34:23,090
I started getting scared.
2029
01:34:23,122 --> 01:34:27,960
I touched his face saying,
"David, David, David, David."
2030
01:34:27,993 --> 01:34:31,030
And then he came back slowly
to consciousness
2031
01:34:31,064 --> 01:34:34,101
and then he started laughing
like nothing happened,
2032
01:34:34,134 --> 01:34:38,939
like he was nowhere,
like he has been here.
2033
01:34:38,971 --> 01:34:42,242
That's the moment
I felt that, uh,
2034
01:34:42,274 --> 01:34:45,412
something was shifting
in his mind.
2035
01:34:50,149 --> 01:34:52,819
DAVID: Actually,
I blanked and I,
2036
01:34:52,853 --> 01:34:55,456
you know,
my memory seems to come and go.
2037
01:34:55,488 --> 01:34:58,157
I... I forget so many things,
uh, these days
2038
01:34:58,190 --> 01:35:00,159
where it just seems
huge blocks of time
2039
01:35:00,193 --> 01:35:01,929
are suddenly gone and then...
2040
01:35:01,962 --> 01:35:04,098
- MARION: David.
- DAVID: ...they come back.
2041
01:35:06,966 --> 01:35:10,304
MARION: The same trip David
took his camera and he said,
2042
01:35:10,337 --> 01:35:12,906
"I would like you
to take a photo of me,
2043
01:35:12,939 --> 01:35:16,944
like, if I was buried."
2044
01:35:16,976 --> 01:35:21,081
So, we silently start digging
2045
01:35:21,113 --> 01:35:24,284
and I cover him with sand
and earth.
2046
01:35:29,221 --> 01:35:33,092
I took different photos.
I took photos from behind.
2047
01:35:33,126 --> 01:35:35,429
It was very strong,
very strong.
2048
01:35:35,462 --> 01:35:38,399
[music]
2049
01:35:48,140 --> 01:35:51,411
MARION: And that was the last
trip we did together.
2050
01:35:51,444 --> 01:35:53,213
We never met again.
2051
01:35:53,246 --> 01:35:56,283
We spoke over the phone,
but we never met again.
2052
01:35:56,315 --> 01:35:59,252
[music]
2053
01:36:06,025 --> 01:36:09,529
TOM: I guess it was about
September of '91.
2054
01:36:09,563 --> 01:36:11,864
He called me
in the middle of the night,
2055
01:36:11,898 --> 01:36:13,967
probably around 2:00
in the morning.
2056
01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:16,970
He said that he had a fever
and he was shaking.
2057
01:36:17,002 --> 01:36:18,871
And so, I came over.
2058
01:36:18,904 --> 01:36:20,239
I put him under a quilt
2059
01:36:20,273 --> 01:36:22,275
and he was just
really shivering,
2060
01:36:22,309 --> 01:36:23,877
like, he couldn't stop.
2061
01:36:23,909 --> 01:36:25,144
And that was
the beginning of it.
2062
01:36:25,177 --> 01:36:27,547
That was the start of it.
2063
01:36:27,581 --> 01:36:30,050
From then on,
things started to slowly
2064
01:36:30,082 --> 01:36:32,051
but surely go downhill.
2065
01:36:32,085 --> 01:36:34,822
He was hospitalized
for eight to ten days.
2066
01:36:34,854 --> 01:36:38,057
They did tests,
but then he went home.
2067
01:36:38,091 --> 01:36:39,526
And literally, from then on,
2068
01:36:39,559 --> 01:36:42,162
he was never really much
out of bed.
2069
01:36:42,194 --> 01:36:43,896
PENNY: Hi, David,
Penny Arcade.
2070
01:36:43,930 --> 01:36:47,067
I have a friend
who's on the board of directors
2071
01:36:47,100 --> 01:36:48,869
for The Museum of Modern Art.
2072
01:36:48,902 --> 01:36:51,371
He's interested in getting
Peter into the museum.
2073
01:36:51,404 --> 01:36:53,106
Call me
so I can talk to you, okay?
2074
01:36:53,139 --> 01:36:55,242
Bye.
2075
01:36:55,274 --> 01:36:58,211
[music]
2076
01:37:09,989 --> 01:37:12,492
TOM: When U2 did a concert
out at the Meadowlands
2077
01:37:12,524 --> 01:37:15,362
in New Jersey,
they sent a limousine for us.
2078
01:37:15,395 --> 01:37:18,265
And before the concert,
we met with them.
2079
01:37:18,297 --> 01:37:20,233
Bono wanted to know
if we wanted to pray with them.
2080
01:37:20,266 --> 01:37:21,902
We said, "No.
I think we'll pass on that.
2081
01:37:21,935 --> 01:37:23,170
Thank you."
2082
01:37:26,206 --> 01:37:27,574
But it was just so special.
2083
01:37:27,606 --> 01:37:29,009
I mean, he was thrilled.
2084
01:37:29,042 --> 01:37:31,511
He was really,
truly thrilled.
2085
01:37:31,543 --> 01:37:33,313
KIKI:
Hi, David. It's Kiki.
2086
01:37:33,345 --> 01:37:35,348
Siobhan says that you went back
in the hospital.
2087
01:37:35,381 --> 01:37:37,049
So, I hope you're okay.
2088
01:37:37,082 --> 01:37:38,885
DR. BOB: He was in
and out of Cabrini
2089
01:37:38,918 --> 01:37:40,220
a number of times.
2090
01:37:40,252 --> 01:37:41,889
And after one of them,
he said,
2091
01:37:41,921 --> 01:37:44,924
"I'm never going back again."
2092
01:37:44,957 --> 01:37:47,260
Homecare was established
in that loft
2093
01:37:47,293 --> 01:37:49,896
of the movie theater for him.
2094
01:37:49,930 --> 01:37:51,899
That became a hospital room.
2095
01:37:51,931 --> 01:37:54,333
And most patients
didn't have that at that time.
2096
01:37:54,367 --> 01:37:56,336
David was one
of the first people
2097
01:37:56,368 --> 01:37:58,337
to have that level of homecare.
2098
01:37:58,371 --> 01:38:01,307
And probably that was the force
of his personality
2099
01:38:01,341 --> 01:38:04,177
and Tom's
organizational skills.
2100
01:38:04,210 --> 01:38:06,413
If not for Tom,
that wouldn't have happened.
2101
01:38:06,445 --> 01:38:07,648
[beeping sound]
2102
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:11,018
PAT WOJNAROWICZ:
David? Dave?
2103
01:38:11,051 --> 01:38:12,419
Hello?
2104
01:38:12,452 --> 01:38:14,221
It's Pat.
2105
01:38:14,253 --> 01:38:17,090
I just want to let you know,
I talked to Tom
2106
01:38:17,122 --> 01:38:19,259
and I told him when
I'm coming in.
2107
01:38:19,292 --> 01:38:22,996
I'm worried about you.
I hope...
2108
01:38:23,029 --> 01:38:25,098
I just hope that
you have someone around you
2109
01:38:25,131 --> 01:38:29,101
and, uh, well, I'll talk to you
tomorrow, okay?
2110
01:38:29,135 --> 01:38:32,039
Big kiss. Bye-bye.
2111
01:38:32,072 --> 01:38:34,307
JUDY GLANTZMAN:
His decline was speeding up.
2112
01:38:34,341 --> 01:38:36,043
Dementia was setting in.
2113
01:38:36,076 --> 01:38:37,577
It was in and out.
2114
01:38:37,609 --> 01:38:39,278
It was getting
more and more difficult
2115
01:38:39,311 --> 01:38:41,180
and he was more and more
tired.
2116
01:38:44,083 --> 01:38:45,952
Things were happening
for David.
2117
01:38:45,985 --> 01:38:48,287
And you could tell David
that MoMA had just bought Fire
2118
01:38:48,320 --> 01:38:49,422
and he was just kind of like,
2119
01:38:49,456 --> 01:38:52,192
"That's wonderful."
2120
01:38:52,225 --> 01:38:54,361
And you could tell him
five minutes later
2121
01:38:54,394 --> 01:38:56,496
and he would not remember.
It was like Groundhog Day,
2122
01:38:56,529 --> 01:38:58,332
you could just absolutely
tell him the same thing over.
2123
01:38:58,364 --> 01:39:00,500
And he had absolute happiness.
2124
01:39:00,533 --> 01:39:02,436
[David humming]
2125
01:39:02,469 --> 01:39:05,137
It was a very beautiful
wide-eyed David.
2126
01:39:05,171 --> 01:39:06,539
It wasn't like it wasn't him.
2127
01:39:06,573 --> 01:39:08,041
But he was joyous.
2128
01:39:08,073 --> 01:39:10,242
[David humming]
2129
01:39:10,275 --> 01:39:12,278
TOM: Dr. Bob said,
"A real person comes out
2130
01:39:12,311 --> 01:39:14,081
when they get into dementia.
2131
01:39:14,113 --> 01:39:15,982
If they're nasty at core,
they'll be nasty."
2132
01:39:16,015 --> 01:39:19,719
But David was as sweet
as he could be.
2133
01:39:19,752 --> 01:39:22,021
It was heartbreaking for me.
2134
01:39:22,055 --> 01:39:23,990
He didn't think anybody
would stick around
2135
01:39:24,024 --> 01:39:25,425
if he got sick
or he was dying.
2136
01:39:25,457 --> 01:39:27,493
He was very much afraid
of that
2137
01:39:27,527 --> 01:39:30,697
and I think as a result of how
badly he was treated as a kid.
2138
01:39:30,729 --> 01:39:33,099
You know, there was
a tremendous sadness and fear
2139
01:39:33,132 --> 01:39:34,701
for me worrying about him
2140
01:39:34,734 --> 01:39:38,005
and knowing he was just
getting worse and worse.
2141
01:39:38,037 --> 01:39:40,172
But at the same time,
I felt grateful
2142
01:39:40,206 --> 01:39:42,275
that I could be there for him.
2143
01:39:45,145 --> 01:39:47,214
DAVID: Looking out the windows,
I can place myself
2144
01:39:47,247 --> 01:39:49,383
somewhere out in that sky,
2145
01:39:49,416 --> 01:39:51,083
lie down in that texture
2146
01:39:51,117 --> 01:39:55,188
and dream of years
and years of sleep.
2147
01:39:55,220 --> 01:39:57,690
And I... and I talk.
2148
01:39:57,724 --> 01:39:59,525
And I talk inside
my head of change
2149
01:39:59,559 --> 01:40:02,096
and of peace for this body
beside me.
2150
01:40:06,399 --> 01:40:08,635
Smell the flowers
while you can.
2151
01:40:13,305 --> 01:40:17,076
TOM: July 22nd,
he died at the apartment.
2152
01:40:17,109 --> 01:40:20,046
And there were like
12 of us there,
2153
01:40:20,079 --> 01:40:22,716
all of his friends,
his sister.
2154
01:40:22,748 --> 01:40:26,153
CYNTHIA: The nurse said to Tom,
"I think he's gone."
2155
01:40:26,185 --> 01:40:28,721
And, um...
2156
01:40:28,755 --> 01:40:31,391
that was it.
2157
01:40:31,423 --> 01:40:34,761
[music]
2158
01:40:34,793 --> 01:40:38,064
DR. BOB: It's no one thing
that took David's life,
2159
01:40:38,097 --> 01:40:39,533
it was the burden of carrying
2160
01:40:39,565 --> 01:40:42,501
all those illnesses
in that one body
2161
01:40:42,534 --> 01:40:45,439
that was just too much
for one body to bear.
2162
01:40:45,471 --> 01:40:48,408
[music]
2163
01:40:52,444 --> 01:40:54,180
TOM: There were a lot of tears
during that time.
2164
01:40:54,213 --> 01:40:56,182
There were a lot of tears then.
2165
01:40:56,216 --> 01:40:58,618
But I've gained a great deal
of distance now, of course.
2166
01:40:58,650 --> 01:41:01,253
And you know, in some ways,
it's even hard to remember him
2167
01:41:01,287 --> 01:41:03,256
which I don't like.
2168
01:41:03,288 --> 01:41:05,826
It's what time does to you.
2169
01:41:05,859 --> 01:41:07,394
But he's always here.
2170
01:41:07,426 --> 01:41:09,628
You know, he's always here
no matter what.
2171
01:41:09,662 --> 01:41:11,164
I know he's here.
2172
01:41:14,134 --> 01:41:17,804
[music]
2173
01:41:17,837 --> 01:41:20,774
[indistinct chatter]
2174
01:41:24,176 --> 01:41:27,113
[music]
2175
01:41:48,868 --> 01:41:52,305
Oh, my God. Here we are.
2176
01:41:52,337 --> 01:41:55,774
I said I wasn't going to cry
and I'm already tearing up.
2177
01:41:55,807 --> 01:41:58,377
It has been so long coming.
2178
01:42:02,347 --> 01:42:03,583
Here it is.
2179
01:42:06,519 --> 01:42:08,188
It's a little overwhelming,
isn't it?
2180
01:42:08,220 --> 01:42:09,455
Wow.
2181
01:42:11,256 --> 01:42:13,425
Look at all of this.
2182
01:42:13,458 --> 01:42:15,228
TOM: All the Peter Hujar
dreaming photos.
2183
01:42:15,261 --> 01:42:16,863
- ANITA RAUFFENBART: Yeah.
- TOM: Peter was quite
2184
01:42:16,895 --> 01:42:19,599
an extraordinary character
and they were so connected.
2185
01:42:19,631 --> 01:42:20,666
Yeah.
2186
01:42:20,699 --> 01:42:21,934
TOM: Anita, there's your monkey.
2187
01:42:21,967 --> 01:42:23,302
WENDY:
There's your monkey, sweetie.
2188
01:42:23,336 --> 01:42:25,338
ANITA: Oh. Yes, it is.
[laughs]
2189
01:42:25,371 --> 01:42:27,274
TOM: David painted it for Peter.
2190
01:42:27,306 --> 01:42:29,208
And it was over his bed
while he was sick.
2191
01:42:29,242 --> 01:42:30,543
- WENDY: Yes.
- TOM: And when he died,
2192
01:42:30,577 --> 01:42:32,244
they... he gave it to Anita.
2193
01:42:32,278 --> 01:42:34,213
- Kept it for 20 years.
- TOM: Yeah.
2194
01:42:34,247 --> 01:42:37,517
ANITA: And I'm so sorry
I needed to sell it. [laughs]
2195
01:42:37,550 --> 01:42:39,853
If I could buy it back
from that woman, I would.
2196
01:42:39,886 --> 01:42:42,689
Peter would always say
that the monkey was carrying
2197
01:42:42,721 --> 01:42:44,890
the weight of the world
on his shoulders
2198
01:42:44,923 --> 01:42:47,927
the way David did it.
2199
01:42:47,961 --> 01:42:49,729
TOM: This has always
been a favorite.
2200
01:42:49,761 --> 01:42:50,963
When I first saw it,
2201
01:42:50,997 --> 01:42:53,365
it really kind of
moved me a lot.
2202
01:42:53,399 --> 01:42:55,735
At that point,
David was not feeling very well
2203
01:42:55,768 --> 01:42:59,372
and I just kept thinking
of extinction and Wojnarowicz.
2204
01:42:59,404 --> 01:43:01,373
He's so clever.
He really was.
2205
01:43:01,407 --> 01:43:04,511
He had such a great
childish imagination.
2206
01:43:07,579 --> 01:43:10,649
DAVID: Imagination is the key
to breaking through
2207
01:43:10,682 --> 01:43:12,652
the borders of countries.
2208
01:43:12,685 --> 01:43:17,324
We can break through existing
structures of government.
2209
01:43:17,356 --> 01:43:20,894
The work that anybody
does as an artist,
2210
01:43:20,926 --> 01:43:23,596
if it doesn't
reflect resistance
2211
01:43:23,630 --> 01:43:25,332
then they're helping
2212
01:43:25,364 --> 01:43:28,768
a system of control
become more perfect.
2213
01:43:28,801 --> 01:43:31,771
DAVID: We rise to greet
the state,
2214
01:43:31,804 --> 01:43:34,407
to confront the state.
2215
01:43:34,439 --> 01:43:38,811
[indistinct lyrics]
2216
01:43:41,514 --> 01:43:45,719
♪ And you thought
I was just no strength ♪
2217
01:43:45,752 --> 01:43:49,022
♪ You thought
I was just photos ♪
2218
01:43:49,055 --> 01:43:52,659
♪ You thought I was just
words and pictures ♪
2219
01:43:52,692 --> 01:43:55,362
♪ You've seen a thousand times ♪
2220
01:43:55,395 --> 01:43:57,464
[music]
2221
01:43:57,497 --> 01:43:58,532
[glass breaks]
2222
01:44:00,733 --> 01:44:03,302
[music]
2223
01:44:03,336 --> 01:44:05,305
SINGER: ♪ Lies they tell us,
lies they live ♪
2224
01:44:05,337 --> 01:44:07,439
♪ What is it
that lies can give? ♪
2225
01:44:07,472 --> 01:44:09,708
♪ Peace or hatred,
love or fear? ♪
2226
01:44:09,742 --> 01:44:11,444
♪ Who will lie
the most this year? ♪
2227
01:44:11,476 --> 01:44:13,512
♪ Lies they tell us,
lies they live ♪
2228
01:44:13,546 --> 01:44:15,448
♪ What is it that lies
can give? ♪
2229
01:44:15,480 --> 01:44:17,684
♪ Peace or hatred,
love or fear? ♪
2230
01:44:17,716 --> 01:44:21,621
♪ Who will lie the most
this year? ♪
2231
01:44:21,654 --> 01:44:24,658
PETER: This is Hujar
at noon on Sunday,
2232
01:44:24,690 --> 01:44:26,292
you wanna hear some Italian?
2233
01:44:26,326 --> 01:44:27,293
Listen.
2234
01:44:27,327 --> 01:44:30,797
[woman speaks Italian]
2235
01:44:30,829 --> 01:44:32,465
PETER: Did you like that?
2236
01:44:32,497 --> 01:44:33,932
Oh, she's been imitating
an American.
2237
01:44:33,966 --> 01:44:36,603
How about that?
Anyway, goodbye.
2238
01:44:40,506 --> 01:44:42,342
DAVID: See you later, gator.
2239
01:44:42,375 --> 01:44:45,311
[birds chirping]
2240
01:44:47,613 --> 01:44:49,916
- [laughter]
- SINGER: ♪ ...your heart ♪
2241
01:44:51,016 --> 01:44:53,586
[musical flourish]
2242
01:44:53,675 --> 01:44:58,675
Provided by explosiveskull
https://twitter.com/kaboomskull
187827
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