Original subtitles

(drum and bass instrumental)

- I think a night at an unlicensed boxing do, a good one,

is better then going to, I don't know, Earls Court,

or the GMEX up in Manchester, and see Hamed ponce about

and knock some geezer out in 30 seconds,

and it's cost you a fortune, you know.

It's a much better night, there's no doubt about it.

Unlicensed boxing nights, if you hit the right night,

is a good night. (ethereal ambient music)

As good a night out as you'll go anywhere.

- Sell-outs, I mean Roy Shaw fought,

well it sold out Alexander Palace.

- Now, I know it's not proper boxing,

but that's not really what you was going there for you know?

Very few people go to boxing to watch the finer art

of the Queensberry rules, they go to watch

two testosterone filled men try and hurt each other

as much as they can, only using the rules

that they are given.

- All right, but I got a lot of respect

for unlicensed boxing, because I mean sometimes

you see guys that, you see a lot of heart.

(ethereal ambient music)

- Yeah I mean there's shows all round the country.

It's becoming really popular.

Yeah, I can't see it being televised

or anything like that, I think it'll always

be underground.

That's what makes it what it is.

That's what makes people want to watch it, you know?

- Right, everywhere you look there's what they call

semi-pro unlicensed fights everywhere now,

and they sell out!

You'd be surprised, they sell out.

And then you got some professional fights

and they're shockingly horrible.

You'd be surprised, they're big names

but no-one's coming to watch.

But, maybe lacks the spice and excitement

that there is in unlicensed, you know what I mean?

If you come to an unlicensed fight, at Caesars,

you are definitely gonna have fun, you know what I mean?

There's a, the atmosphere itself is really good, you know?

And you will have fun to be honest, you know?

(electronic ambience)

- The word unlicensed come from

the British Boxing Board of Control,

which was a bit cheeky really,

'cause it makes it sound illegal, which it isn't.

But they branded it unlicensed because it wasn't

licensed, like, to the Board.

Which,

it all started when,

when Roy Shaw come out of prison as you probably know,

and he tried to get his pro license.

And because he had a criminal record,

and that mixed together with a little bit of his age,

they give him an hard time and said, they refused him.

So, in them days you didn't have as much

as what we had today with restricting the trade

and all that type of stuff, so the lawyers what were

gonna go around and doing that, so the only option

they had was they went like, put two fingers up to them

and went "I tell you what, we're gonna do our own thing."

- Unlicensed boxing was known to be a little bit more,

the rules were a bit more lax, so you got more action.

This brought out stars such as Lenny McLean, Roy Shaw,

Harry Starbuck, Columbo, and right now you're only

allowed to punch that guy in three minute intervals

with sponges tied to your hand.

Well years ago, you know, you could throw the odd nut,

knee him, right?

When he went down you could get away

with the odd kick in the head, you know?

It was a lot more exciting, you know?

And you very rarely got one stretch on for 12 or 13 rounds,

you know what I mean, they were over

in three or four minutes.

(ethereal ambient music)

Friends that were made in there,

and the enemies that were made in there,

and if walls could talk then Caesars

used to be The Cat's Whiskers then.

Caesars could be the best storyteller in the world,

you know?

The actual building smelt like combat, right?

I dunno what it was like on the normal Saturday night

dancing, but it was still a bloodbath right?

The place just smelt like you should fight in it.

Whatever that smelt like, it looked like,

you know, there was dents in the wall,

there was (laughs) you know, you could look,

it just looked agg.

The Roy Shaw and Lenny McLean fights actually brought

the whole of unlicensed boxing into the public eye.

Right, they were individual stars anyway,

in the criminal fraternity, right?

They were, you know, for their own individual reasons.

You know, they were stars anyway, so for them two

to actually end up having combat of each other,

that was,

you know, as entertaining as Rooney and Beckham

having a one against one foot--

you know it was something to watch,

and they all had their own following.

- But Lenny was a big strong guy, hell of a strong guy.

The first fight, Roy beat him, which is a shame

it wasn't caught on film, but he did beat him.

I was actually there.

Second fight,

Lenny beat him,

and the third fight, you know,

we've all seen it on The Guv'nor.

Lenny destroyed Roy.

You know, Roy said he was on them pills, the ginseng.

You know, if he says he was on them,

he must have been on them.

There was a big age difference,

hell of a lot of age difference, you know,

between Lenny and Roy.

You know, Lenny was what?

28 was he?

28, something like-- you know he weren't in,

Roy was like, nearly 40, or in his 40's.

You know, it was a big age difference,

big height difference, and Frank Warren even said,

if Lenny would've turned pro, he would have been a good pro.

- Because most of these fights had to happen, low-key,

undercover, and no-one couldn't see.

You couldn't advertise it, you couldn't put a poster up

or a flyer, or see if you could sell some more tickets.

All done through word of mouths and down the boozer.

Well Joey Pyle wanted to spice it up, you know,

he wanted to put some publicity round it

and earn some proper money, like winner take all,

10 grand and things like that.

Well, I don't know if you're aware,

but professional fighters can go home with

two and 300 quid!

You know what I mean?

That's all they get!

Four, five, 600 quid or something,

and you can't have another fight for seven weeks!

Works out at £75.00 a week to be a professional boxer.

You understand what I mean, well if you get one of these,

like, Lenny McLean fights and Roy Shaw,

that conjured up the imagination,

winner take all, it was two men, you know,

they didn't even want a round, they didn't want a bell.

They weren't technically the greatest boxers

in the world, but they loved a scrap, you know.

And they actually weren't cutting it on the skill level,

but they were making up for it in the arsehole level, right?

In the guts, and the Rocky stuff, you know what I mean?

So they, it sort of branched out and then

the unlicensed boxing came in, which is,

I mean personally I think it was a little bit better

a few years ago, when there weren't so many, sort of,

health and safety rules around it, you know?

Now you've got a doctor and you've got a ref

that does know what he's talking about,

and the rounds are more or less the same time each one.

You know what I mean, but in them days,

it was, there weren't no doctor present

and you just battered the living daylights out of each other

until someone was bleeding a lot or lying on the floor.

- Maybe the fellas were a bit more angrier,

back in the day, you know?

'Cause obviously back in the day, you could have a little

punch up and it was all cool.

Nowadays you've gotta have things in place, like doctors,

St. John's Ambulance, medicals,

weigh-ins.

You've got to do things a different way,

which is taken care of by the other half of the team.

- Can I just say that, being an unlicensed show,

it means, now there's no government mandate

in this country for a Boxing Board of Control.

Now the Boxing Board of Control are a limited company.

They are a company, end of story.

No-one,

can say that they have got a government mandate

whatsoever, so anyone can put a boxing show on.

(crowd cheering) (ambient music)

- [Peter Stoten] I reckon it's a bit-- a lot more gore,

a lot of villainry,

a lot of razzmatazz,

you know?

It's a bit-- yeah, I think it's more interesting to watch

than your clean-cut boxing, your white collar,

or your amateur.

- Stan Butler?

(crowd cheers)

Thank God!

Come on, they're gonna put you on!

(crowd cheering and clapping)

There is a terrific atmosphere here at Caesars,

there's never been, as far as I'm aware, a special night.

We have the odd title fight of course we do,

but, you know, people come here 'cause they know

they get great value for money.

They see guys really going for it,

and I thoroughly enjoy it.

- I would rather go to an unlicensed show

than go to a,

most pro shows.

Obviously like, when you got a big show like

a Ricky Hatton show, or David Haye show

at O2 Arena, d'you know what I mean?

The hype's there, so you're looking forward to it.

But if someone said to me tomorrow night

"Joe, come to York Hall"

It's just a standard, run of the mill eight fight card

or something like that, I'd go

"I can't be bothered."

You know, 'cause you know what you're gonna go and see.

You know, you might get a couple of good fights, you might.

But you come to an unlicensed show,

you know you might get two guys in the ring,

never boxed before.

And they ain't got a clue how to box,

but they gotta stand there and swing fuck out of each other,

trying to hit each other, it's entertaining!

And then on the top of the bill you might get someone like,

you know, like Sven Hamer fighting another,

fighting an ex-ABA champion.

Two big heavyweight guys gonna stand there

and throw bombs at each other, so you know,

across the field you've got like a,

you know it's an entertainment evening.

I wouldn't say it's a boxing paradise,

or a boxing connoisseur, but for entertaining evening

the unlicensed is hard to beat.

- It's a very primitive sport as you probably appreciate.

There's a massive amount of skill involved as well,

and boxing, you know, boxing's one of those things

that is not that difficult to pick up,

but it can take a lifetime to master.

(crowd calling out to the boxers)

- [Man] Go on Scott!

- [Woman] Go on Scott!

- Well the Guv'nor title is something which we inherited.

There was a big dip, when Lenny and Roy give up,

it went, you know, it was useless.

And then Alan Mortlock was doing the shows,

he was doing it, and then Ricky English started

doing a few of the shows, and then Ricky came to me

and we was doing a few of the shows,

and then we resurrected the Guv'nor title.

And, you know, Sven won that,

and we had Norman Buckland won it,

Joe Kacz,

then he beat Sven.

When Sven Hamer defended, he had it for about five years

then Joe Kacz beat him,

and then,

then Joe Kacz was stripped

and Norman Buckland won it.

Norman Buckland give it up, and Joe Kacz come back

and won it again, and he fought Gary Sayers for it

when they all went outside the ring (laughs)

they both went over the top and they started punching

each other outside the ropes, and that was

a bloody night that was.

So, it's still there, but Sven Hamer would have

held his own with Lenny and Roy.

You know, on his day, Sven was a good pro.

I used to promote him in the pros, promote him at Wembley,

won the Intercontinental title, he was a good fighter.

- Well, as things stand, I've got

one, two, three,

four,

five, six, seven, eight, nine,

10, 11,

12, 13, 14, 15, 16,

17 boxers.

Now one of them boxers, six people are comin' with him.

Another one of them boxers,

is two.

Another one, is three.

So realistically there are 17 people + 6 + 2 + 2,

that's 10, there's 27 people.

But sometimes what I do, that's my half of things.

My partner, who organizes all the doctors, the rings,

the venue, tickets, posters, he's got his boxers

and he does his half of things,

so now I've gotta ring the Luton boys,

make sure they're up to scratch.

Jameson,

it's Uncle Teddy,

what's happening boy?

Jameson! (laughs)

You thought it was the IRA, yeah?

(laughs)

You really gotta leave women alone

when you're comin' up to your fight.

You want that aggression, 'cause if you got

a smile on your face when you get in the ring, mate,

someone's gonna wipe it for ya.

D'ya know what I mean, and then when you wake up

you won't be-- yeah, when you wake up now

you're not gonna be thinking about birds,

you're gonna be thinking how many, sort of like,

your reputation's out of the window.

You'll be seeing birds and stars.

"Hey Teddy, what's wrong with me?

"Turn the Christmas lights off."

(laughs) They're not on!

Right, let me get on with some work.

I'll speak to you later, bye.

The way I got in to it all, was years ago with me mate,

Darren, he went and put his-self up for a fight

and because we knew it was this prize fighting,

I wanted to make sure that he was in good condition.

I used to be in good condition them times.

So I wanted to make sure he was in good condition,

so I said to him "I will train ya,

"and I will help you sell your tickets."

So, off we went, we done two training sessions

and that was the last I saw of him.

So I used to, sort of like, have a go at his Mrs,

Sarah, love her little soul, saying to her like

"If he gets knocked out it's your fault!"

(laughs) Right.

So after that, it was just sort of like, in and out,

in and out, in and out, until a year ago

when I decided, like, time to take this thing

a little bit more serious.

Once you've had that talk,

- Yeah, (mumbles) - I don't think any

of the other talk will really affect ya.

'Cause if I started saying t'ya

"No, it's an easy one."

You would say "Hold up a minute,

"he can't be telling the truth,

"he can't be telling the truth."

- Stitched up!

- You know what I mean? - Probably three of them

come out at once.

(laughing)

- And once you've had that talk,

- Tag you and tag 'em in.

- once you've been knocked out, you'll learn from it,

pick yourself up, brush yourself off and start again.

- Well what is it, the other one?

No, you don't really feel the punches anyway,

until you wake up.

(laughing)

- If you don't know the right promoter,

and you don't know, basically you've got,

you haven't got your toes dipped in any pies,

then you're not gonna be earning any money in it.

So basically, you could just be training for nothing.

But if you sort of get the right promoter,

the right team behind you, then you can earn

some serious money out of it, and become a success.

- A lot of the boys, yeah, when we used

to first come and sit down in here,

they never had nothin' better doin',

just arguing and fighting amongst themselves.

Now, we encourage them, if you got an argument,

bring it to the table.

If you got beef, bring it to the table.

- Sort it out. - Sort it out basically,

you know?

Instead of talking about who can do

and who can't do, you got beef, bring it to the table,

and then we resolve it that way,

and then everyone have a little bit

of respect for each other.

Just a little bit.

- Yeah, I think that it is the real--

it's the original unlicensed venue, you know.

Caesar's Mean Machine, of their Guv'nor title

goes back from the days of Lenny McLean, Roy Shaw,

and it is the original unlicensed underground,

you know what I mean?

I think we got the best fighters, but it's really that,

that name, you know?

(crowd cheering) - Ladies and gentlemen,

in the Blue corner, from Tooting,

Dean Hawkins! (crowd cheering)

Five two-minute rounds, fastest (mumbles) ever.

- [Man] Come on Dean!

- [Crowd Chanting] Deano, Deano, Deano, Deano, Deano, Deano!

(bell rings)

- [Man] Go on son!

(crowd shouting) Jab, jab, jab!

Go on! - Go on!

- [Man] Do him, do him!

Do him Dean, do him!

Jab, use that jab, Dean, use the jab!

- [Announcer] One!

Two!

Three!

Four!

Five!

Six! - Dean, Dean!

Keep your hands up!

Dean, keep your hands up!

Go on!

Go on son!

Go on!

Get him son!

(mumbles)

Do him!

That's it, now (mumbles) again!

- [Crowd Chanting] Deano, Deano, Deano!

Deano, Deano!

Deano, Deano!

- [Man] Use your jab!

Jab, jab!

- Hit him! - Go on!

- [Referee] One, two, three,

four,

five,

six,

seven,

eight, and time over!

(crowd cheering) - Yes!

Your brains have gone!

- You know it's interesting that,

if anyone wants to go to a boxing match,

I think it's probably best to start

at something like this, or an amateur show.

Because if you go to a pro show, then you come here,

the huge difference is that, I think these

are more fun that pro shows.

Pro shows are, you know, they're run very, very tightly,

and everyone knows what they're doing.

Here it's a little bit anarchic,

but it's possibly more fun.

So do it this way round.

Come to one of these first, go to a pro show later,

but don't do it the other way round

because the expectations you'll have

will be completely different.

(mumbles) please welcome into the ring,

Mr Joey Pyle! (crowd cheering)

- You've gotta like the sport to go to it.

You're not gonna spend £45.00--

I mean I wouldn't spend £45.00

to go and watch fuckin' snooker, you know what I mean?

So, it's for a like, you know what I mean,

if you like boxing you're gonna watch it,

if you don't, you're not. (audience whistling)

(clapping) (intro rap music)

♪ Nobody touch me ♪

♪ Nobody want me ♪

♪ Nobody cut me your man here ♪

(gun shots)

♪ That's what I deal with ♪

- [Announcer] Thank you Giles.

And across the ring, ladies and gentlemen,

will you please, please,

give a big warm welcome to, from Brixton, Allen Kitson!

- My name is Allen David Kitson,

nickname K.O. Kitson, K.O. Mean Machines Kitson,

and I'm from Brixton, South West Nine.

(rap music)

Well that's the thing, I mean I'm not the most

over-confident person, I've got confidence you get me?

But I know I'm 33 years old and know it's a late start.

All I can do is give what I can give,

and I know that who I am, the person that I am,

I've got-- you get me?

You know what I'm saying, I know I'm a pretty good boxer,

I've trained for a long time,

I've got a bit of experience, and,

I enjoy it,

and I love it,

and that's it.

(drum and bass instrumental) (crowd shouting)

- [Man] Toes, keep on them toes!

(crowd shouting)

- It's all about winning for me.

Like, I don't think I don't know

if I could deal with a loss too well.

When I say I couldn't deal with a loss too well,

I got no problem losing to my opponent,

I mean if I'm beaten by an opponent as far as I'm concerned

he's a good fighter, he's better than me--

He must be better than me, and I gotta have

a great respect for him.

I've got no problem losing to him,

I've got a sportsman--

I'm a very good sportsman, I've got no problem.

But I'd be very hurt for my supporters

and people have come out, come out for me to see me fight

and stuff like that, you get me?

Yeah, I would definitely fight 'em for my supporters.

I will be trying my best.

No matter what, you're gonna get a fight from me.

(crowd shouting)

- A lot of the boys, as I said, come off of the street.

Rather than stab each other up or shooting each other,

if you've got a problem, isn't it a better place to do it

in the ring, in front of 800 people?

And may the best man win and take the prize!

You know, and, you know,

everyone's fighting against knife crime,

no-one wants to see anyone get stabbed up,

it's not really a fair way of doing something.

So ultimately, yeah, I think most people

would prefer to come and watch two people

who are having an argument or a dispute,

get in the ring and resolve it with a pair of gloves,

and the safety-net of doctors, ambulances,

and a Ref.

So yeah, ultimately I would prefer to watch it

that way as well, rather than someone getting shot

or stabbed, 'cause it's a waste of time.

- Before I started boxing, I was like a very aggressive

person, loud, shouting at people, fighting.

Just basically when I'm going out clubbing

I just wanted to get in a fight or whatever.

But now I've started boxing and that,

I've learned to calm down and, it's not worth

fighting people in the street or whatever,

just take that anger into the ring.

(ethereal melody)

If I stayed unfocused, I think I'd be in prison,

or sad to say, probably dead.

Just the worst really, like the worst things that can--

that can happen really, yeah.

- I'd be probably, I'd be probably selling drugs

or robbing like a lot of my friends in Brixton,

like my mates I grew up with, you get me?

Or just, yeah I'd be, or in jail, probably.

- Not everyone can see it's a good thing, like,

take for instance I got this, 16, he was 16 at the time,

his name was Troy, and he had a lot of potential.

He was really good, well versatile,

fuckin' he was a kickboxer and he was a boxer,

he just wanted a chance.

He comes from a background of like, fostering

and seeing a lot of heroin use, and he was thieving

and using drugs himself.

And me and Joe got him away from that side of the life,

into boxing and he's fighted on a couple of shows,

and the police come to the show, said "He's in foster care.

"He's 16 years old, blah blah blah blah,

"he's not to be fighting on the show."

So the police have basically cut off that avenue

where he could have a good life and something good,

you know what I mean, sports and fuckin'--

and they've sent him back to the avenue of nicking cars

and blah blah blah.

But anyway, that was about a year and something ago,

he's old enough now and he's gonna be fighting

on the next show, and he's one to watch for,

he's gonna be good.

- Got into unlicensed boxing, it was quite funny actually.

Me clutch went in me car,

and basically I needed to find a way to pay for it.

Seen a few fights, went down to Streatham

and basically got involved from it from there.

They asked whether anyone wants to take part

and, you know, I took part.

- [Announcer] Round one!

(bell rings)

(crowd shouting)

(crowd cheering)

- Never stepped in the ring before,

thought I'll give it a go.

Yeah, good nights actually, it's, you know,

something I've wanted to get involved in.

I could never be a pro, but, you know,

just gave me the opportunity to do it.

You wanna go to the next best thing.

Some people take up amateur, some people want to make money.

To be honest, I like to

make a bit of money (ethereal ambient music)

and have a bit of fun at the same time.

- Basically, my first fight for Mean Machine,

the guy come in the changing rooms and he said

"Who's Peter Stoten?"

I said "I am."

And he said "Ah, I'm not fighting you."

And this was at five to seven, just as I'd sold

thousands of pounds worth of tickets.

Everyone was coming in, so I was gutted, I was sick.

So my brother's come in, and he said "Right."

He said "I'll box ya.

"If I get paid, I'll box ya."

He had his kits and his shawl.

I mean he's a very good boxer,

being coming from a fighting family,

and he took his kit off,

got in the ring and we done a three round exhibition,

and it brought the house down.

And on that performance, Joe's offered me a title fight

straight away.

Which I won, and then I won a second title.

It just meant so much to me, it sort of,

give me a worth in life, you know?

I'm really proud of them titles, I put a lot of work in.

Now I'm gonna be fighting for the heavyweight title.

I'll have three different titles in two different weights,

no-one's ever done that, so I'm over the moon.

(ethereal ambient music)

(crowd talking)

- Right, listen now, this is once again

the first champion contest on the program.

It is a contest of four two-minute rounds

in the heavyweight division to decide the destination

of the British Heavyweight Championship.

Will you please welcome, the challenger for the title,

from Birmingham, boxing off the red corner, please welcome

Adam Geritty!

Come on make him feel at home!

(crowd clapping and whistling)

And across the ring, boxing out of the blue corner,

The Pride of Gravesend, the reigning heavyweight

champion of Britain, in the second event

of his title night, and the reigning English champion,

please welcome Peter Stoten!

(crowd cheering)

(mumbles) crown prince of boxing, your referee once again,

Mr Wayne Alexander, thank you.

(crowd talking excitedly)

- [Crowd Member] Go on, Pete!

(crowd talking and shouting)

(clapping)

- Go on, Pete! - Go on, Pete!

(crowd talking)

- [Woman] Come on, Pete, knock-out!

(clapping)

- [Man] Go on Pete!

- [Woman] Go on Pete!

(crowd cheering and clapping)

(crowd cheering and clapping)

(cheering)

(whistling)

(crowd cheering and clapping)

(crowd cheering and clapping)

(whistling)

(crowd talking)

(whistling)

- Good day, (mumbles)

Right, Wayne!

Give him the belt.

(cheering)

Pride of Great Britain, The Pride of Gravesend,

The Assassin, Peter Stoten!

(crowd cheering and clapping)

And please show your appreciation,

decent boxer, Mark Geritty!

Thanks (mumbles)

(clapping)

(crowd cheering and clapping)

- Well, November, it's probably my best knock-out ever.

It was against Paul Hill, it was challenging for

the British title in only my second fight.

You know what, I don't think anyone's ever done that.

And that particular fight was just so focused,

I went out there, I hit him with two--

He was a world champion kickboxer.

I hit him with two body-shots and then come out

and threw probably the best right hand anyone's ever seen.

It was voted the best knock-out of the year.

I K.O'd him, and it was just amazing.

But, you know, I put in about eight weeks training for that.

I must have spent two, £300.00 in professional trainers,

and it just lasted that quick.

People say "Was I bothered?"

No I wasn't, you know.

(ethereal ambient music) - My mates,

they like the idea, they think that it's good.

You know, they probably think one day

you become a celebrity, it's not that easy.

But me mum, bless her, she's a bit worried,

but all parents are.

Yeah, I get good support.

Me sister, me brother in law, they give me support.

All my mates, really, they just want me to do well.

(crowd shouting)

Win, lose or draw, it feels like you been in a car crash.

Got a bad whiplash, takes you about a week to recover,

but it's worth it if you get paid well.

(crowd cheering)

- I know it's unlicensed boxing at Caesars,

but I'm living my dream, I'm boxing, I'm back in the ring

doing something that I've always wanted to do.

I'm not gonna kid myself, I don't know how far

I'm gonna go with it, or how far this is gonna take me,

but I'm living my dream.

(crowd talking)

- [Man] Hands up, straight in there!

(audience member shouting)

- [Crowd] Oh! (clapping)

- [Boxer] Look at his mouth, man!

- Hey, get back!

- Take it out!

(mumbles)

- Take it out quick!

- [Boxer] We're boxing now man, come on man!

(crowd talking)

(somber melody)

(clapping and cheering)

(clapping)

- A lot of people, I fell into the trap of

"Because I could have a little bit of a row

"on the cobbles, I actually believed I'd be a good boxer."

Well that's a completely different game.

You know,

trying to train your body to actually fight

in three minute bursts,

and you're only allowed to hit someone

with two sponges tied to you hand, you know what I mean?

It's sort of cut down there, cut down an awful lot

of the rules that I had in my head

about the way to fight, you know.

(crowd talking)

- [Announcer] Round one!

(bell rings)

(crowd cheering)

(crowd screaming and clapping)

- As you know, 'cause it's prize fighting,

and the winner takes the prize basically, yeah?

You know, a lot of them come straight

from the street, they've got no intentions of training.

They see it as like "I can have a good tear-up

"on the street, I'll get in the ring

"and I'll have the same tear-up."

A lot of boxers now, if you want to do something

properly, take it serious, and they train

as a, as standard sort of thing, an average standard.

When you train, you've got a better chance

of walking out of the ring.

When you don't train, you've got more of a chance

of getting knocked out of the ring (laughs)

or knocked down in the ring, in my opinion.

But there's guys that,

defeat science.

And they get in there, they haven't trained at all,

and they win all the time, you know?

If you've got a bit of skill, then you're half in front.

- Some of these people don't realize they want to do it

until later on in life, you know, and obviously

the amateur boxing thing, is something really

they get into at 11, 12, so a lot of these people

now have got into it, just switched on,

realized what they wanna do.

I mean you do see some real talent.

- Jab!

And again!

(mumbles)

Pop, pop!

Drop, that's it.

Drop, and pow!

Bring it up when you do that.

See that's good.

All right, sails down!

Bang!

And again, bang!

That's good!

- You know it's not like a fight on the street,

little blow out for a minute, you know,

it's literally you're in the ring,

you're both in there to do a job,

there's rules and regulations,

you touch the gloves and you get on with the business.

So, you gotta train, you ain't gotta cut corners.

You cut the corners, you cheat yourself really,

that's my main philosophy.

- If you channel yourself, if you're training for boxing

you channel yourself to your boxing.

You know where you're going, you're gonna push yourself

to go that way.

You've gotta have heart, you've gotta have arsehole,

you can't put any of those into a fighter.

That human being has to have that in 'em.

Also you need to have a punch.

If you don't have a punch you definitely gotta have a chin,

and an ability, you gotta have a certain amount of ability.

If you aint got any of those, then I'd definitely

go into something else.

(up tempo bass instrumental)

- Boxing's a very dangerous game, you know what I mean?

If you don't train, yeah, your whole body

is kind of, at a stage where you can--

anything can happen to you.

But if you train your muscles a lot, and everything's ready,

know what I mean?

If someone hits you with a good punch in the head,

you know what I mean, you could get really hurt,

or in the ribs or anywhere.

You get internal bleeding, or anything you know?

And these people, they take a big risk going in the ring

without training.

You know, you can see how people look, you know what I mean?

"Oh, I'm just gonna get three and then out."

But you can get really hurt.

'Cause one punch in the wrong place of the body

could cause a blood clot, could cause a,

anything can happen to you, you know?

And then, that could be the end of the story for you.

- Well, I normally start my workout

with a bit of stretching, just to loosen up the muscles.

Then I go into shadow boxing, which is mainly practicing

moves for the type opponent you're gonna be boxing.

This time I'm fighting a tall guy,

so I was a lot of head movement,

a lot of body shots.

And then generally after that I move on

to a bit of bag work, again just practicing

the same sort of punches, practicing moves.

You know,

general fitness.

And then, what I was doing then,

I was doing strength exercises.

The basic press-up which everyone knows,

and then I was moving on to neck exercises

where I was rolling on my neck.

They're designed really for strengthening the neck muscles

so you can take a punch better.

Yeah just generally strengthening the neck muscles,

and then, sort of, sit-ups where you stand up.

Again that's for the stomach muscles and the leg muscles,

and, you know, basically they work a lot better

than, sort of, weight training, them sort of exercises.

Although I do do a bit of, incorporate a bit

of weight training into my regime.

Agh, agh, agh, agh!

- Good, and again.

Agh, agh, agh, agh!

I train generally six days a week.

Sometimes twice a day, I'm a full-time fighter.

Basically I have one or two rest days a week.

I do a lot of my preparation at the Peacock,

'cause you're training around

a lot of professional fighters.

It's a 50 mile round trip for me, but you know,

it doesn't bother me, and generally you got the

best trainers up here, and the best fighters,

and yeah, I love it.

- I got plenty of kids coming in like I said, you know, and,

I've got

all different ages and sizes,

and people who are unfit, and it's not all about

just about boxing, it's about fitness as well.

So although I've got professional fighters,

I have the general public coming in

to get themselves in shape, and they do it

like our boxer would do it, but they don't get hit.

That's the only difference.

- Double jab!

Double jab! (laughing)

One two three!

Three!

One two three! - Come on!

- Come on! - You're under strain now!

- One two!

Four! - Come on, you're under

strain now, you're putting on the pressure!

- Time!

- Well done, he's putting you under pressure,

that's what you want! (laughing)

Dedicated, they're strong, you know, they look fit,

they train hard, and I think you know,

with a bit of encouragement, you got one or two lads here

that could go quite a way.

(ambient music)

- I've been training recently, five, six days a week,

including that with my work,

But, you know, you need to have a good old rest

before your fight, so you can go out like a firecracker.

(drum and bass instrumental)

- All the training that you've done has paid off.

I heard this saying not too long ago actually,

it's the first time I've heard it, but,

if you train hard, you'll fight easy,

and I like that, and it makes sense.

I think that's good stuff, yeah.

I'll train every day.

Part of the reason I train every day

is just to keep in the lifestyle I'm at and like--

If I weren't training every day, then I'd be looking

to do other things like, wander to the pub,

which is bad thing.

- Right, 'cause you're going forward, forward, forward,

and you're only learning one thing,

which is just coming forwards, so I want you to come back.

So I'm just gonna start, just gonna be pushing you back.

Keep yourself together, yeah?

So as I'm pushing you back, just a little one, two, yeah?

But you keep moving backwards, that's it,

and you're gonna keep your form,

you're gonna keep your footwork,

and all the time, I just want you

up and down with your head, up and down

with your head, yeah?

Shoulders moving, head moving.

(chiming)

Okay.

Right, jab!

And again, and again!

Good.

One, two.

Right, you gotta cut the ring off, you're moving around.

You're always just trying to keep control of the ring.

Two, good!

Jab!

Good, two.

Two again.

Three.

And move around.

Keep the ring, keep the ring.

You're in control.

Jab.

Good.

Good!

Two.

Two again.

Two again.

Yeah? Shouldn't be able to do that.

Hands up, good. (ambient music)

A lot of these fights, you know,

you've got 25, 30 year old, you've got

fights that are promoted King of the Gypsies, if you like.

Then you've got, you know, some traveler

coming from Wales to meet somebody from Southampton,

you know, you've got this type of thing going on.

And again, it tends to be, they bring their supporters

and you've got the excitement of that going on.

- This fight thing's taking off all over the country.

Now you're gonna have your preferences.

Some people like the MMA, some people

like the cage fighting, some people like the professional.

But in my opinion, you know, and I know a good fight

when I see it, I've been round plenty, you know?

A night out at a good unlicensed boxing do,

is better than any amateur, it's better than

any professional.

A good night out at an unlicensed do,

is the best night you will get in the boxing game.

Better than any of that cage fighting,

I mean who wants to go and see Alex Reed ponce about,

lie about his record, and hopefully, like you know,

get a picture of Jordan there,

flashing her pony little diamond ring that she's just got.

- The recognition that you're fighting in front

of Roy Shaw and Joe Pyle, and this is legendary

and they are legendary people.

So, you know what I mean, if you've--

know what I mean, it's just a part of the tapestry

you can choose to be a part of it.

Know what I mean, you'll always be remembered

if you fight here.

If you go and fight anywhere else,

you'll fuckin' be forgotten in a week.

But you have one fight here, you're remembered forever.

- Go on Gary! - Go on Gal!

(crowd shouting)

- [Announcer] Round one!

(bell rings)

(crowd shouting)

- [Woman] Go on Gal!

(crowd cheering)

(screaming)

- [Man] Get in the ring!

(crowd cheering and clapping)

Get in the ring!

- [Crowd Chanting] Gary, Gary, Gary!

(ethereal ambient music)

(crowd talking)

- [Coach] Get enough, find the spot.

- [Announcer] Oh, one,

two,

three,

four,

five,

six,

seven,

eight,

nine you're out!

- Guy got in the ring, literally Sven beat him

before the guy even put his gloves on.

The bloke was terrified.

Sven hit him, went over, didn't want to get back up.

Couple of fellas in the crowd went "Boo!"

Know what I mean, shouting, screaming "I'll fight ya!"

So he went "Right, you wanna fight him?

"Get in the fuckin' ring and fight him."

So the fellas jumped up and said "I'll fight."

Next thing you know, we're gloving him up,

ambulance crew's gone mad, doctor's gone mad,

"Joe, what are you doing?"

I said "Oh, let 'em do it."

They can't fight a pro fighter.

- No no. - You can't get in the ring

after you've been sitting there

drinking booze - Ah no, I don't want it

- all night long. - for that (mumbles)

- You might think you can do it, you know what I mean?

You got in with a pair of jeans on (mumbles)

game boy, you know what I mean?

They'll be turning up to it, you know what I mean,

you know, well done you made the show, made him on that.

But, you know, bet a lot of bollocks.

But you can't hope to compete with a guy

who's been training for like six, eight weeks,

he's got arms like that, he's fit as a fiddle,

ex pro fighter, only going one way.

There's only one way that fight's gonna go.

He's gonna knock you out, he's gonna hurt ya.

And, you know, and that's what happened,

literally knocked the kid clean out of the ring.

(crowd shouting)

(clapping and cheering)

(whistling)

- [Announcer] Seconds out, round one.

(bell ringing)

(crowd cheering)

- [Crowd] Oh!

(crowd cheering and clapping)

- Break, break, break!

(crowd clapping)

- [Crowd Chanting] Who are ya, who are ya, who are ya,

who are ya, who are ya, who are ya, who are ya?!

(crowd shouting)

(crowd cheering)

(bell ringing) - S'enough, that's enough!

(crowd cheering) That's enough!

(crowd whistling and clapping)

Fuckin' stupid!

Don't be silly, no more!

That's it or the show shuts down!

That's it or the show's off!

We'll cancel the show now!

No more, that's enough.

You were silly not to give in, no more.

- And so, the kid still wanted to get in,

we had to hold him down and said

"Look, look, that's it mate."

You know what I mean?

You know, you're gonna end up down fuckin' St. George's

hospital if you carry on.

And it was the same as the one later on in the night.

It was the same as that one, you know,

he got in, he had a good go.

Had a-- tried to stick the nut in,

the elbows and the knees, everything else.

But the other kid was a fit kid,

and when he's hit him, when the other guy got--

you know give it 30, 60 seconds, bam!

Slamming in, all of a sudden like, you know,

you go out, you hit a bag for 60 seconds.

You stand there full pelt, 60 seconds, hitting a bag right?

Right, after 60 seconds you'll be going (panting)

you can't fuckin' breathe.

And the other kid just stood back, let him done it,

he took the shots on the arms,

and when the other kid got tired, that was how you, bang!

And hit him, and that was it.

Guy couldn't even hold his hands up, he was so fucked.

- [Announcer] Seconds out, first round!

(bell ringing)

(crowd cheering)

(cheering)

No, no, no, no, no, that's not how we like to fight.

That's not how we like to fight.

Keep it clean or we stop the fight, easy as that!

- [Referee] Back!

Back, and you!

- [Announcer] Keep it clean or the fight gets stopped,

what do you want?

Gotta be clean!

Oh, he slipped over!

Can we keep away from the ring please?

- [Man] Keep it clean!

(crowd jeering and clapping)

- [Announcer] He slipped.

That's a slip.

Box on!

(crowd cheering and clapping)

One!

Two!

Three!

Four!

Five!

Six!

Seven!

Eight!

(bell ringing)

(clapping)

- Oi!

Oi, oi fuck off!

Oi, shut your mouth you cunt!

Oi!

- [Announcer] Caller, ten seconds!

Seconds out, second round!

(bell ringing)

- [Woman] Come on!

(crowd cheering)

- [Announcer] Oh he's, oh no no!

No, no, no, no, no!

All right, clear the room please, clear the room.

Don't start please!

(glass breaking)

(screaming)

- Colin Wilby, yeah Colin, that was a good fight

with some of the fights we had.

Norman Buckland, that was a funny fight, when,

when he jumped out of the ring before the fight

and started fighting with all the Arsenal supporters.

(laughs) Someone was shouting out to him

"You fat bastard!"

Or something like that.

He stand in the corner, took his robe off

and decided to jump out the ring,

and jump in the middle of all these fighters,

all these Arsenal boys and started having a punch up

with the lot of them.

That was before the fight even started.

You know, we had to jump in, stop the fight

"Norman, get back in the ring!"

- [Interviewer] Did they still fight after?

- Yeah, then he got in, knocked the other one out, and that.

Punched the other guy up the balls.

The other guy (laughs) punched him, so he's gone over,

and we've had to get him out the ring.

That was a crazy night.

- I think unlicensed boxing had a bad name.

I think that unlicensed boxing is pulling itself

out of that doldrum, if you like.

I mean the days back in the 70s and the 80s,

when you've got these great big fat guys,

and, you know, let's all fight

for the Guv'nor championship et cetera,

and to an extent that's still going on.

But more and more and more unlicensed fights,

they tend to have a younger type of fighter.

You've got kids almost, 20 years, 25 years old

going out there and doing it,

and you've got people that are almost

on the top of the game doing it.

People that can't, they haven't got the time

to go down the amateur route, and certainly

don't want to go to the professional.

And so they're taking more,

pride over their appearance,

they're making themselves fitter,

and I think that with the shows themself

being run in a much better light,

and much more professionally handled,

the whole thing, I think, has come out of that, that bad--

You know, there is one or two, shows about

and fights that still happen,

and things that aren't regulated properly.

But as long as the doctor's there,

as long as you've got a good ref in there,

as long as you've got good judges in there,

and just as important, you've got a good crowd,

you've got a good fight.

- I wouldn't say it has a bad name, no.

I wouldn't say it has a bad name,

I'd say since that Guy Ritchie came along

and made that Snatch film, you know,

that probably didn't do it any favors.

So people think there's a lot of gambling going on

and, you know, people throwing fights.

But it's not like that.

I think unlicensed boxing can get, you know,

like youngsters off the street.

You know, they're not fuckin' about with the gear,

or the drugs or whatever.

(crowd cheering)

- Not too many years ago, funny enough,

they used to bite, and head-butt, and stamp.

And it was really, I think it's gone

a really lot forward now.

I mean you got all the doctors at ringside,

you got all the ring-girls, Wendy and the Mean Girls.

You know, it's all really a proper outfit now.

- Well it used to be the ferocity of the fights.

There used to be hardly any rules, but now like,

this last two years, like it's more Queensberry.

But I think people still come 'cause they still

all know the reputation it used to have.

Fuckin' stamping on the, stamping on the heads

and all that sort of thing,

but that's not allowed these days.

When it was, I started about three years ago,

two, two and a half years was it now?

- [Man] Yeah, about three.

- It was still a bit naughty then.

I've jumped over a few people's heads in here,

but they wouldn't allow it now.

Totally (whistles) get disqualified straight away.

(ethereal ambient music) (crowd shouting)

(crowd screaming and shouting)

- Well some people get too into it, you know.

You're always gonna find like, these, like,

over-passionate people, but that could often

be alcohol fueled couldn't it?

I mean, you know, I've only ever seen

security come to the ringside once or twice in London,

they've handled it really well, they're very professional

their security.

Like a sport like boxing, it's gladiatorial isn't it?

So it's gonna fuel passion, and people are gonna get

exuberant and over-excited.

'Specially if they've gone all the way up there,

little team of them, on the bus, on the train,

in a load of cars from somewhere else.

You know what I mean?

And their man's lost, you know?

They've been full of the joys of Spring,

thinking he's gonna win, he hasn't, you know.

So whether they're feeling let down,

or what emotions are going through 'em

I don't know, but, they do get upset now and again.

(crowd cheering and clapping)

(whistling)

(cheering)

- I've had an awful lot of criticism,

from a lot of people about unlicensed boxing.

All I would say is, (rock guitar instrumental)

before they can talk about it,

they've got to see it.

And nine times out of 10, they simply haven't.

(arpeggiated electronic melody)

- Yeah well, basically my role in the whole affair is,

I encourage the boxers,

distribute their tickets and posters to them,

for the South East of England.

And sometimes as you know, Luton, Bognor, whatever.

On the night, look after all the boxers.

Make sure that they're happy with their opponents.

Help out with matching the boxers,

and basically just keep an eye on things

where me partner can't, basically.

- Boxing's booming again at the moment.

Promoting's a pain in the arse.

Absolute pain in the arse, I dunno why I do it, you know?

If I promoted for a living, I'd have been skint years ago,

I wouldn't have done it.

But, I love it, d'ya know what I mean?

I love the game, and you know, even tonight

I was meant to fight (mumbles)

"Joe, what are you fighting for, 44 years of age?"

I say "'Cause every time I see the guys

"want to get in the ring, I want to get in there

"and do it."

You know, so like a promoter basically, you know,

it's a pain in the arse with fighters pulling out

on you all the time.

You know, they ring you up "I've got a cold."

Or, today's Mother's Day, we got a show tonight,

Mother's Day.

Do you know what, I've never known so many fellas

take their mums our for Sunday lunch,

you know, on Sunday night!

It's unbelievable, had one today, you know,

"Joe, I can't make it" and all that,

"I'm taking me mum out with me," oh yeah, all right, yeah,

you know what I mean, you're yella!

- [Announcer] Seconds out,

round-- - Hold on, hold on,

hold on, hold on, call the knock-out first, fuck sake!

(laughing)

You on fucking drugs?!

- [Announcer] Seconds out, round one!

- [Man] Come on mate! (bell ringing)

- [Woman] Go on!

- [Man] Go on Sven!

(crowd cheering)

- [Announcer] Fight back son!

- [Man] That's it Sven!

(clapping)

- [Announcer] Oh, that's what we wanna see!

(mumbles)

(crowd cheering)

- [Man] Take your time, take your time!

Take your fuckin' time!

(crowd cheering and whistling)

- [Announcer] Whoo!

- Break it up, break it up,

all right, all right, - You gotta work him out!

- break it up! - Walk him out!

- [Audience Member] Work behind that jab Sven,

work behind that jab!

- Get a jab goin, come on now! - That's it!

Good lad, pull that jab!

Good lad!

Every time Sven, that's good! - That's it Sven!

And again mate, pile it through!

In the body, Sven, in the body!

(crowd talking)

- [Man] Body Sven!

Oh!

That's it and again son,

come on! (bell ringing)

- [Announcer] Oh!

One!

The bell's gone, two!

Three!

Four!

Five!

He's out, he's out!

Good night Nigel!

(crowd cheering and whistling)

(clapping)

Roll him on his side!

- Where's the ambulance?

Where's the doctor?

- I think you've got all walks of lifes in the boxing game.

A lot of them are boys that used to be a bit,

in the pub, few pints, "I can have a tear-up."

Then you got a lot of them that, were sort of like,

training to be boxers, wanted to go pro or semi-pro.

Didn't get that

break.

Got a nice crowd that will follow them

and they still wanna do it.

With boxing if you haven't made it by a certain age,

it's very unlikely that you're gonna be a semi-pro

or a pro boxer, and I think they can tell by the time

you're 15 or 16 nowadays, you know,

if you're gonna be any good.

But a lot of them, obviously if you're paying your money

to go to a boxing club, and you're half decent,

they're not gonna say to you "Nah, we don't want ya."

They're gonna still take your money, and say

"Come on, we'll get you in the ABAs,

"we'll get you semi-pro, we'll get you pro."

And, you know, ultimately that's what they do,

that's what they run, a gym. (crowd cheering)

But a lot of the boys who come to fight,

are boys that just aint gonna have

the opportunity of getting on the pro

or the semi-pro stage.

(crowd cheering)

(crowd cheering and clapping)

- One,

two,

three,

four,

five, six. - I mean I might not be right

on this, but I think like, since the European laws

have come along, and all the different acts,

that there's so many different, you know like,

different associations with boxing now.

It aint like in the 70s, when Ali was the champion

and everyone crowded round the black-and-white in 1973

to watch him fight whoever, you know?

It's different now, you can set up this,

you can set up that.

You can't get done for misrepresentation, whatever.

You know, and everyone wants to

steal a bit for their-self, you know?

'Cause at the end of the day, like the amateur guys

have still got money-men behind 'em,

putting on the show, you know?

So they're fighting for their few quid ain't they?

- [Announcer] Seconds out, first round!

(bell ringing)

(crowd cheering)

- [Crowd] Oh!

(cheering, clapping and whistling)

(bell ringing)

(applause)

- [Crowd] Oh!

(cheering)

- Well, to get it right, a lot, if you wanna get it right.

If you don't wanna get it right, you just wanna throw

someone in with someone, then you don't do nothing do you?

You just wait until the day and go "Well, they'll do it."

But to get it right, you know we watch DVDs,

I watch old fights,

and see if there's an old opponent

that's gonna fight, and I see how he fights,

and see if someone's suitable.

(crowd talking)

- [Woman] Come on!

- [Man] Go on!

Go on!

(whistling and clapping)

- The fighters that actually perform here,

come from all over the place.

We get them from Wales, we get them from the South Coast,

we've had them from-- we got a guy

who came down from Aberdeen today.

They vary in ability, to be honest with you.

I'm actually sometimes pleasantly surprised,

but other times not at all.

The standard of the boxing is kind of give and take really.

I mean you get some kids, you think right!

You know, he could possibly make a professional,

but you get some guys that haven't got a clue.

But having said that, this level of boxing

isn't about being a world champion.

It's about going out there and having a lot of fun.

(bass instrumental) (crowd cheering)

- Take your time! - Come on!

- [Man] That's it, take your time!

Take your time!

(crowd cheering)

Yes!

(crowd cheering)

- Basically they could be first-timers.

You know, i.e. the guys that have,

they haven't got a clue about fighting.

I mean the promoters don't always know,

they'll get a phone call and the guy will tell them

he's done this, and he's done that, a lot of the time.

They're lying, you know, and they just get up there

and they're crap, like you know?

- Apparently there's this man called Kevin the sens--

Dave The Sensation, you know what I mean?

And, Thompson, I'd never heard of him before.

And then, so he comes up and

they tell me I'm gonna fight him.

I looked him up, anywhere, no video, nothing about him.

I asked everyone, no-one had ever heard of him before.

He's from Scotland, I looked through the internet,

Dave Thompson, The Sensation, nothing about him.

And I was kind of in the dark, you know?

And I thought he was gonna be some secret weapon

(laughs) from Scotland, so I did,

I trained really, really hard for this fight, you know?

I trained really, really, really hard.

And when the night came, you know, when I saw him,

my first look of him, I was like "Is this the Sensation?"

He didn't look like someone who did

a lot of training, you know?

He was a bit chubby and all that.

But you don't judge a book by its cover, you know?

And I said "All right, let's see what happens in the ring."

(crowd talking) - First round.

(bell ringing)

- [Crowd] Oh!

(cheering and clapping)

- One, two, three, - Get up!

- four, five, six - Get up, get up!

- You okay?

Are you absolutely sure you're okay?

Convince me.

(mumbles)

(crowd shouting and clapping)

- I will fight with you!

What are you gonna do man?

- All right then guys, can I just tell you

that one of the main, in fact the main objective

of any referee, is to ensure the safety of the boxer.

(clapping)

- I mean, he was-- that was embarassin'.

I mean, he'd told the promoter he'd,

he'd boxed for the Commonwealth Games, and this and that,

and he just didn't really try.

I mean, I would be embarrassed to fight someone like that.

It doesn't make Joe Kacz look good,

he puts a lot of hard work in.

It doesn't make him look good.

- No you get all different sorts of fights.

You get, you get a couple of handbag fights, maybe.

- [Interviewer] Tell us, what's a handbag fight?

- Well a handbag fight's where the boys,

they can throw punches,

but they're used to throwing punches in crowds.

So you aint gotta really,

you aint gotta worry about hitting no-one,

'cause if you're in a crowd you just throw punches

and you hit 'em. (laughs)

Whereas a proper boxer now, he'll pick his punches

and he'll pick his target,

so it's a complete different level of boxing.

But on the night, I dunno, if you were saying to me

on average, how many fights do I think would be good,

I would say out of 15, 12, 13.

And you'll have two funny fights.

And the two funny fights could be

that the two fellas are just different kind of boxers,

and they just can't seem to hit each other.

- [Announcer] Round one!

(bell ringing)

- [Man] Go on son, go!

(crowd shouting)

- A big fight for me, a memorable one,

was Joe,

Kacz.

And Sven Hamer.

That was really memorable, and you know,

I was proud of Sven.

Because no matter what Joe done,

he was hitting Sven with all his best shots,

but Sven just kept coming forward.

- He was the Guv'nor, the title holder.

So probably been the Guv'nor for 10 years,

and no-one had beaten him.

And, he'd had his record of knocking people out

and all that.

He's an ex-pro, with quite a good record,

and big stocky fella, you know?

And I trained for him, and I was ready!

So I'm ready to go the distance with him,

you know what I mean?

The fight was quite a challenge to be honest,

we did five, three-minutes.

He didn't expect me to be what I was, you know what I mean?

'Cause when then bell went off, I caught him a few punches

and I shook him, you know?

And he was very unprepared.

(crowd shouting)

- [Woman] Come on Sven!

(crowd cheering and clapping)

He had three belts, and the three belts were,

one was a Joe Pyle belt, and he had the Guv'nor belt,

and then he had another EBF belt.

So I took the three belts off him

'cause he put them on the line on the night.

So from nowhere I had myself three belts!

And there it was, the Guv'nor! (laughs)

(crowd shouting)

(crowd cheering)

(cheering and clapping)

So, being the Guv'nor, you kind of inherit

the bad boy,

underground title,

that these tough men did hold back in the day.

And Sven Hamer had the title for 10 years.

You know what I mean, everyone who tried to beat him failed,

he either knocked them out or stopped them,

and then that's what happened.

And overnight, suddenly, I was the Guv'nor!

And I was like "Oh!"

I dunno, you know what I mean?

'Cause they thought I was gonna lose anyway,

never heard of me, and he thought he was gonna

go through his motions.

But he came to fight, you know what I mean?

But I beat him!

- You know, he didn't knock him out.

He might have beat him, but he didn't knock him out.

And it was a good fight!

Sven was the champion, I think, for about eight years

at that stage, and being a champion for so long,

it's easy to become complacent, in the sense of

you know, no-one aint come forward that is a real challenge.

You know, and all of a sudden you've got another challenger,

and, you know, you just hadn't

turned your switch on completely.

You know, you've only given it sort of like 50, 60%

of what you should have done.

If he had sort of like, I dunno,

trained to his usual standard of training

he could have, would have easier beat Joe.

- I went to a pro show, and there was,

I'm not gonna name names, but there was two well known

black heavyweights fighting each other

at ExCel Center in London, and believe me,

I ran out of the place.

I felt like going to see the promoter

and saying to him like "I tell you what,

"can I have me money back?"

You know what I mean, "You robbed me, absolutely dire."

And you know, and I've been to shows like what we have

and the entertainment's been absolutely fantastic,

from two boys who have never boxed before.

You know, but have stood toe-to-toe

and had a proper, proper punch-up.

You know, but then you're talking about the skills.

You know when we had Floyd Havard boxing,

Floyd Havard, you know, ex British Champion,

ex European Champion, fought John John Molina

for the World Title.

You know, you aint gonna get much better,

on a semi-pro unlicensed show than a fighter like that.

(bass instrumental)

- [Crowd] Come on Floyd!

- [Woman] Come on!

(applause)

(crowd cheering and clapping)

- Box on!

(crowd cheering)

- [Announcer] We don't often see you, Dan.

(crowd talking)

- Over the last 10 years, it's become more apparent

that people wanna go into something other than amateur,

but not professional.

Amateur stops at 34 years old.

That leaves a great big scope, 10, 15 years

of people still in their prime, that wanna do something.

So we're quite happy (crowd shouting)

as a boxing club, to start training people for unlicensed.

But we have our own strict rules as well.

You know, we're not having any

of the big fat, don't wanna train, people.

We just want to get them in, we want to train them

to the best of our ability, we want them to be the best

that they can be before they get in,

or we're not putting them in.

And once all that criteria's filled,

and we feel that we've done a good enough job,

and then they can be happy with their performance.

Anybody that's not 100%, we wouldn't put in to the,

in to the fight themself.

(crowd cheering)

- That's it boy, - Let's get on him again,

- land on him. - jump on him!

- Put your hands up! - Jump on him!

- Pace yourself son,

Pace yourself. - Jump and move,

jump and move.

- Well professional boxing's obviously a lot better,

although you do see some good lads in unlicensed boxing.

The amateur people, I mean I don't know about nationwide,

but down here they don't like us.

They've had a letter out, they don't want anyone

associating with unlicensed boxing.

They won't box amateur again if they do.

There seems to be a real big rivalry.

- Boxing's boxing, you know what I mean?

Amateur, pro, boxing's boxing, you know what I mean?

Once a fighter comes to fight, they come to fight.

The things that sometimes, a bit,

some unlicensed fights are not very--

they go a bit wild, you know?

And then that's what usually happens.

But boxing's boxing, you know what I mean?

- The amateurs don't want anyone fighting for unlicensed,

because they want to keep 'em for theirselves.

They know that they don't pay 'em nothing, you know.

The chances of like, some amateur trainer down here

finding someone who's gonna go on to be a pro,

like the odds of that are astronomical, aren't they?

They're not gonna find one, you know.

So they go and sell 50 or 60 tickets with us,

or with anyone in unlicensed boxing,

they're gonna earn some money.

Whereas poncing about with a head-guard,

they're not gonna earn anything are they?

Apart from a night out for the family

and a bit of crap dinner.

(crowd talking)

- [Man] Go on James,

go on son! - Go on Mickey.

- [Man] Fuckin' hold it.

- Standards at some fights are really, really good.

Good standards, you know?

Some really, really good fights.

And some fights, are a bit disgraceful.

(crowd cheering)

(woman screaming)

Yeah.

But the last few shows have been really good, you know?

Honestly, the last few shows, the standards

have been really good, better than what you see

in other shows, you know?

I went to Brentwood and watched a few fights down there.

I was appalled, you know?

But, I could only say, a lot of guys

that come to Caesars now, are really good.

- Well, they say a man's gotta do what a man's got to do.

I'm not for the unlicensed boxing, you know.

I like to do it strictly for medical reasons,

and for-- far as I know there isn't medical,

checks are not really done, so I'm not a supporter

of unlicensed boxing.

But if guys wanna do it, it's entirely up to them.

You know, I'm not gonna say "You can't do it."

Everyone's got free, to do what they want to do.

But it's not something I would go into, myself.

- It's good in a sense.

I mean, myself, I had 60 amateur fights 10 years ago.

I'm 35 now, I'm a bit too old to turn professional,

but it gives people like me a chance to get back in the ring

and show what they can do.

There's no discrimination about your age or anything.

You know, as long as you can box, you can do it again.

It gives me so much fulfillment to get back

in the ring again, at my age you know?

- I'm 35 to be honest, yeah?

And no good promoter want to sign with you

when you're that age, they bring excuses and all that.

And then, and I put up with the hassle, of turning pro.

When you turn pro, you have to have at least £700.00

for your medical.

That comes with all the necessary requirements,

you know what I mean?

So everyone thinks, if I have to pay £700.00 to box,

how much am I gonna earn?

You know, how many times am I gonna fight?

See, that puts you off, first time,

thinking about the license fee of £700.00,

the medical and all that.

It's like a daytime robbery to be honest, yeah?

And people get put off because of that.

- These guys, you know like they've been retired, and,

they've got an entourage.

They've got people who'll come and see 'em, you know,

and then like all of a sudden they're on the scrapheap.

Now if they've got another 10 years in 'em,

kids, mortgages, that sort of thing, you know?

They want to fight on.

Well why shouldn't they be allowed to?

- Unlicensed fighting is very, as I've just said,

is on akin with the amateur.

You've got shorter rounds, yes,

and there's just as much excitement in it.

You tend to have short, sharp, quick shocks if you like.

There's a lot more knock-outs, maybe, you know.

And you can see people with skill, that quite obviously

need four, five, six, seven rounds,

and you sit there and you think to yourself, you know,

"God, if that guy had another two rounds,

"he'd win this fight!" (chiming)

But he hasn't, he's got three rounds,

and that's exactly the same as amateur.

And because it's the same as amateur,

it's pulled back into that realm.

It's in that boundary, just like the amateurs.

So, yes, you do get as excited.

I get as excited at watching one of these unlicensed fights

as I do with an amateur fight.

Maybe not so with the professional fight,

just because the longevity of the fight.

You know there's another seven, eight, nine,

10 rounds to go.

Of course you're gonna be more excited, if it's a good fight

you want it to carry on, you know,

as I'm sure the boxers do.

But, no, it's three rounds, (chiming)

and I think that with the level of fitness

that these guys have, three rounds is perfect for them.

And that's what they're to aspire to.

(crowd shouting and chanting)

- [Announcer] One!

Two!

Three, and a bit.

- You do see some talent there,

and wonder why they're doing that?

And then I come to the conclusion, they're doing that

because what they're trying to do is gain

a lot of experience, and use that over and above

their sparring that they're doing in the gym.

And then maybe take that step into the professional ring.

But yeah, there's a lot of talent out there.

- What stops some guys becoming professional fighters

generally is their level of ability really.

These guys come in here for fun, they don't do it

because they want to go anywhere,

they do it because they want their mates

to have a nice night out,

they want to earn a couple of quid,

get a win and they often fight friends actually,

and that's what we've seen here this, at this venue.

And it's great fun!

(drum and bass instrumental)

- Pay £25.00 to go and watch a pro fight,

you're gonna sit there for eight, nine, 10,

11, 12 rounds.

And you're gonna watch 12 rounds of jabbin'

and bobbin' and weavin',

and people who have got the real blood-lust

would rather pay £45.00

and watch boxing that's three rounds,

and people who are actually gonna fucking go

hell for leather for three rounds.

People pay to go and watch people get knocked out.

That's the one reason they go to watch unlicensed boxing,

to watch people go to kip.

(drum and bass instrumental)

I like boxing to be more savage.

I think the ferocity brings, people come to see

the fighters be ferocious, you know what I mean?

Lenny McLean, he was a good fighter

'cause of the presence he carried with him.

Same as Roy Shaw, the agh!

You know what I mean, know what I mean?

That draws people in.

- The atmosphere is mental.

I mean the first fight I had, you know,

at first I weren't shitting it, but when the bell went

that's when your legs start to go.

You panic and you go in as fast as you can.

I did that, but cardio seemed to fuck me up

(laughs) at the end of the day.

- I won't lie, it's not nice, I don't--

that's the worst bit of it.

I think, I fainted a couple of times,

on the way from the changing room to the ring.

That's just, the fuckin', you know what I mean?

You feel the, it's like you're gonna shit yourself but,

1,000 times worse.

Your heart's thumping, you know what I mean?

And like, you look down at your chest

and you can see your fuckin', your chest shimmering

from your heart beat, and like (exhales),

and you get in the ring, then everyone (cheering)

then it sort of goes then, and like sort of

it all takes over, then you just gotta

get it in your head that you've gotta

fuckin' hurt the geezer who's standing over there,

know what I mean, get in there and hurt him.

- How about you? - Nerve wracking,

awful, just no, 'cause I'm with him

all the time before the fight.

- When I walk out of the changing rooms,

I think it was the time before last,

and I try and look where she was,

and I caught a fuckin' glimpse of ya,

and I thought "Fuck me, you look worse

"than I fuckin' feel!"

(laughs)

- It is so nerve wracking.

- You'd gone white.

- Mmhmm.

- Whiter than me. - Yeah, I don't move

until he's had his fights.

- Well basically, everyone I've hit sort of fallen over.

And I mean, he's been in the ring

with some really, really good fighters.

Sparred loads of rounds with top names.

He just basically, you know, he messed me about,

he was laughin' at me, telling me I couldn't hit.

You know what I mean, just doing old tricks

what an old pro does, you know?

And a lot of the time I was falling for it,

but, you know, he was trying to draw me in,

to lure me in to a false sense of security,

and I wasn't having any of that.

I sort of boxed clever, I boxed smart.

I was very disappointed that I couldn't

treat the fans to a knock-out,

because I sold the most tickets there,

and I really wanted to look, you know, good.

But I won at the end of the day,

and that's all I could do, you know?

- [Referee] Please step back!

Step back!

- Go on (mumbles)! - Go on that's it!

- [Man] Just lift your arms John.

Go on son!

Work that jab!

Work him on the jab.

- You know, you can hit a guy with your best shot

and you know, even if it really hurts him

he'll smile at ya, and you think to yourself

"Ah, no, I've hit him with my best shot!"

And he's like, you know, he might inside be feeling, agh!

But yeah, a lot of them, especially old pros like that

they do all the old tricks, laugh at you, wave you in

to try and get you to come in, and then boom!

You know, they knock you out.

And you've got to be very, you've got to sort of

shut it off, you know?

And this guy, he kept hitting me round the back of the head

on the break.

It messes all your balance up when you get hit there.

- [Man] Go on Peter!

All right Pete. - Break (mumbles) step back!

- [Man] With your back hand Pete.

(bell ringing, crowd clapping)

- I'm gonna be the next big name.

I've got the heavyweight title coming up next,

vacated by Colin Wilby.

I'll have two, three different titles

at two different weights.

I'll be the Super Cruiserweight Champion,

and the Heavyweight Champion, no-one's ever done that.

And I'm gonna defend that for the next five years,

and be unbeaten.

And I'm gonna give it back, a new glitz to it all.

(crowd talking)

- [Man] And we free for the jab!

- That's it! - Oh, yes!

- Come on! - That's it, it's quality!

- [Woman] Ricky, Ricky!

- And again, work the jab. - Ricky!

- [Man] That's right, yeah!

(crowd cheering and clapping)

Go on Peter!

Just do your thing, do your thing!

That's it! - Yeah, we like it!

- [Man] Come on!

- I think the future, well there'll always be,

there'll always be a little bit of unlicensed boxing,

but I think it's had its heyday.

You know, when it was like, illegal to do, and all that,

that was half of its,

appeal.

And because it was illegal,

and there was no rules around it,

you did get better fights!

And I'm afraid now while there's the cage fighting around,

where they're allowed to do mixed martial arts and all that,

the,

unlicensed boxing is gonna come second to that I'm afraid.

Now it's had its heyday, it'll always do it,

it'll always be it, and you'll have the bare knuckles

at the odd gypsy sites and all that.

But it's been and had its heyday, you know?

But with the actual, petering out

of the unlicensed game, right?

It's lost a lot of individual stars,

and it's lost a lot of places that actually became famous,

like for instance Caesars.

You know, that was a Mecca.

You know, it was a Mecca for the fight game.

And I for one will miss Caesars a lot,

and I think an awful lot of other people will.

And it was a very sad day when it closed down,

especially for the boxing fraternity,

and made a lot of people rich.

The place made a lot of people famous.

It ended a lot of people's lives, going to Caesars,

and it made a lot of people's lives.

You know, the actual club itself, breathed, it lived,

it was a person, you know what I mean?

It was a person, not a building,

and it's like a person dying, Caesars' closing.

It's like a genuine funeral.

And that is the God's honest truth,

however pathetic that might come out,

Caesars was a person, a living person.

And when that place shut it was like a funeral.

(somber piano solo)

In it's day,

as it was actually turning, not illegal, but unlicensed,

it was the most exciting thing out there to watch.

(electronic dance music)