All language subtitles for Building the Inferno (2006)

l think Jigoku is unusual

for a Japanese film.

Because the word ''horror''
didn't yet exist in Japan,

l imagine that audiences wouldn't
have had any idea what to call it.

Shintoho was considered
a good-for-nothing company.

People thought it was
a factory of wicked movies.

People thought Jigoku was
another of ''those Shintoho films.''

Everybody ignored it.

l'll strangle you!

He'd come up
with unexpected ideas.

l think Mr. Nahagawa tried

quite a number of really strange
and unusual things in this film.

Harumi!

l still don't know

whether Jigoku fits into
the simple category of ''horror.''

He'd already been called
a master filmmaker by that time.

He wore wooden clogs called geta,
which was really unusual.

Here was a film director
wearing these clogs right on the set.

My first impression of him was
''the old man next door.''

That actually made me
feel closer to him.

When we were working in Kyoto,

l once asked him
''Why don't we go for a drink?''

He said, ''That would be nice.''

Then he added

''But l can't go in these clothes.
l need to change.''

So that he could change
out of the shirt he wore to work

l gave him a ride to his hotel.

l waited for him in the car.

After a while he came out

but l couldn't see
any difference in his clothes.

His attire was
exactly the same as before.

Films shouldn't be
difficult to understand.

Some directors talk big,

but all they make
are incomprehensible films.

Mr. Nakagawa was
the complete opposite of that.

What was great about him
was that he was unassuming.

He gave credit
to his entire cast and crew.

That's why l respected him.

The exact year l met him

was 1950, l think.

lt was on a Kanjuro Arashi film.

Mr. Nahagawa
was the director.

However
since l was just a new recruit,

my task was just to carry money
and deliver messages,

and l seldom spoke with him.

My impression was that
he drank from morning till night.

The first time l met Nakagawa

was on a TV movie project.

Looking back on it,
l was very impertinent.

l was very disrespectful
of the screenwriter on the project.

After the first meeting between
Nakagawa and the cast and crew,

l approached him and said,
''Some lines felt wrong,

so l've made some changes
that seemed appropriate.''

His reply was, ''You fool.''

l was offended by his words.

He exited the room
Ieaving me behind, feeling indignant.

Then the door opened again,

and he called out, ''Hey, you.''

''ln the future, feel free to tell me
what you think just like you did now.''

Mr. Nakagawa
directed horror films

for one studio, Shintoho.

There was an infamous producer there,
Mitsugu Okura.

He always wanted to make
summer horror films

and he would have
Mr. Nakagawa shoot them.

Mr. Nakagawa would think,
''What, another one?''

Japanese films
of the horror genre

are generally made
in volume for summer release.

This is because
by giving the audience chills,

these films have the effect

of providing a cooling respite
from the heat.

That's why so many
are released in summer.

Well, my impression is,

although Shintoho
took on the Toho name

it was nowhere
near the size of the big studio.

l really think it represents
the poor, low-budget aspect

of the Japanese film industry.

Mr. Nakagawa made 97 films,

and only eight of them
are horror films.

At the time

ghost movies and other genre films
released on a weekly basis

were made by ''B-grade'' directors.

As in A-B-C.

lt meant they were
considered lower-tier directors.

He created the masterpiece
Ghost Story of Yotsuya,

and then Jigoku.

l understand very well that,
as a result,

Mr. Nakagawa
acquired quite a reputation.

Originally, however, making this type
of movies wasn't his strong point.

l think many of his works

were small, unassuming films
that really shone.

He really loved people,

people who lived life
to the fullest.

He depicted them
with warmth in his films.

That was my impression
of his work.

He liked movies

but when he was young,
he was actually a Iiterary youth,

though, of course,
he loved movies.

l once heard him say
that his favorite director

was Yasujiro Ozu.

Film directors are arrogant
and generally don't watch films.

Even Ozu said

''Films are something you create,
not something you watch.''

Mr. Nakagawa watched
more films than other directors.

He was full of curiosity...

and he'd go
to the movies by himself.

He saw
Iots of foreign movies too,

and l think
he admired Chaplin the most.

When The Exorcist opened,

we went
to the premiere together.

l'm sure
he saw other films too.

He wasn't living in Tokyo and had
to travel quite a ways to get there.

You have to be a real moviegoer
to do something Iike that.

Nakagawa's attitude didn't change

whether he was talking to
a company president or anybody else.

ln fact, after a shoot

Nakagawa would tell Okura,
''Let's have some drinking money.''

And the fact that Okura complied

shows he was
quite a character himself.

But the money wasn't
just to buy drinks for Nakagawa.

He'd pitch in
money of his own too

to treat the whole crew
to food and drink.

This made for an environment

where discussions
about the project would crop up.

ln a sense, Nakagawa's
style of filmmaking

was reflected in the way
he interacted with his crew

in these daily informal
gatherings after work.

He'd draw out people's strengths,

and then it was his job
to orchestrate them.

That's why gatherings and parties
play a significant role in Jigoku.

l think they're based
on his own personal experience.

Let the girl serve us sake.

Otherwise we won't let you by.

Fueno, you bumped into her.

You refuse
to hand the girl over?

Then l'll take her by force!

Stop this!

- Who are you?
- Remove your hat.

The first time Nakagawa and Amachi
worked together on a major project

was Ghost Story of Yotsuya.

Before that

Amachi played supporting roles

in Nakagawa's films.

Before Ghost Story of Yotsuya,

he made a film called
The Military Policeman and the Ghost,

and Amachi played
a relatively important role

as a really cruel and evil officer
in the military police.

After working together
on that movie

they teamed up again
for Ghost Story of Yotsuya.

Originally,
the role of lemon Tamiya

that Amachi played
in Ghost Story of Yotsuya

was to be played

by one of Shintoho's
box-office stars.

But through some turn of events,

Amachi ended up playing
the role of lemon.

Through that single change
in casting,

Amachi grew greatly as an actor,

and Ghost Story of Yotsuya
gained a realistic quality

that took it beyond
the usual period horror movie.

l can't kill Oiwa.

You still won't do it?

Then let's do this:

l'll get hold of some poison
imported from the West.

Poison?

This was followed by Jigoku.

Congratulations.

Tamura!

Surprised to see me?

Of course, Amachi and l
got along during filming,

but l wasn't
particularly close to him.

That's because
he was very good-looking,

which made it
sort of intimidating to approach him.

He was very popular
with the girls too.

l was really jealous.

ln a sense, he was
a totally different actor than l was.

He was good
at playing handsome,

earnest, hard-working men,

or detectives, ''master detectives.''

Especially
with the advent of television,

the camera really captured
his natural charm.

He passed away
very young, though.

That was a real shame.

Nakagawa loved to drink
and to get together with people.

ln that kind of setting
he would draw out

creative ideas
from the people he worked with.

But Amachi didn't drink at all.

Normally, nondrinkers
wouldn't join in the parties.

But l think through his work,

Amachi conveyed to Nakagawa

that he was able to do his job

even if he couldn't
join in the drinking.

That's my guess.

l'll be going now.

lt would be a shame to keep you
from your wedding preparations.

Wait!

Following on that experience

of playing lemon,

who descends into self-loathing
as he tries to Iive his Iife

with the sole purpose
of succeeding in the world,

the character
Amachi plays in Jigoku

is much, much more timid.

The role challenged him to play

a passive character.

Nakagawa worked with his actors

without locking them
into a pattern

or casting them
according to type.

Rather, he'd expand
each actor's natural abilities

each time they teamed up.

l think that way of working

was particularly evident with Amachi.

lemon...

how could you do it?

How could you poison me Iike that?

Ghost Story of Yotsuya:

lt was because he made that film

that he was busy every summer

directing lots of horror movies
for television.

He used to say,
''Thanks to Ghost Story of Yotsuya,

l got to work
on all kinds of projects.''

Since the film was a success
he felt good and confident,

and he went on filming
the world he wanted to create.

That was Jigoku.

Have you heard
of the plank of Carneades?

The Greek philosopher Carneades
posed this question:

There's a plank,

and two people are drowning.

lf one of them hangs on to the plank,
the other will die.

ln such a situation

if the one with the plank
gets rid of the one without,

is that person guilty?

That's more or less the idea of
''an act of necessity.''

Mr. Nakagawa said

it may not be guilt in a legal sense,
but it is guilt.

Just as we were speaking of this,
a news report came on

about a fisherman
catching fish in the Tama River.

The fish he caught...

were possibly poisonous,

so instead of eating them himself,
he sold them.

There are a lot of people
who do bad things Iike that.

We were discussing this topic,
saying that in a period drama

a man Iike that wouIdn't be forgiven.
He'd be slashed to pieces.

We started to talk about Faust.

A person is doing something bad,

but the agent causing
the person to do bad things

is the person's own alter ego.

And then somehow we started saying,

''Let's do it.''

A while later
Mr. Okura called in Mr. Nakagawa,

asking if he had
any good projects in mind.

Nakagawa said
he'd like to shoo ta film

about bad people
who should go to hell.

Mr. Okura said, ''All right.
Make a film called 'Heaven and Hell.'''

When we completed the script,

Okura scolded us, saying
heaven was nowhere to be seen.

l dodged the issue by saying

l would write about heaven
in the sequel.

My impression is that
Jigoku contains

many Western elements.

l say that

because of the devil-like character
played by Yoichi Numata.

The role he plays

is to lure the protagonist into evil.

That theme is common in the West

but seIdom seen in Japanese films.

lt gives a Mephistophelean,
devil-like impression.

You're a demon!
You're the accursed god of death!

Leave us alone!

That's right.
l'm a demon.

l'm the god of death.

Shiro!

He told me that
just like Goethe's Faust,

it was about
the outside and inside

of a person.

l simply replied, ''l see.''

l thought hard but couIdn't figure out
what the outside and inside meant.

After a while
l started to think:

''Whatever happens, happens.''

At that time
l was the kind of actor

who was inclined

to prepare for a role intellectually.

As a result, little by little,
l was getting cornered.

l wondered:
''Do l need to change the way l work?''

Because l wanted to find a way

to break down my own barriers.

Next we have
the godlike director

of this charmingly shabby
old folks' home,

the Tenjoen,
or ''Heavenly Garden.''

Not content
with this pretty mistress,

he has another in town

the plump owner
of the Tonchuken Tavern.

Tamura, that's enough!

So l acted the way I felt,

thinking it would be okay
if the director yelled at me.

But Mr. Nakagawa just
silently observed my acting,

and the result is what you see.

This is a rare character

for Japanese film,

and l guess...

director Nobuo Nakagawa

probably wanted to create
a story with a Western touch.

Hell itself appears in the Buddhist
religious tradition from ancient times,

and of course it's long been
a popular theme in the West.

But you seIdom see it
in Japanese films.

Originally it came
from my memory

of paintings of hell
in a temple.

When l was a kid
l wanted to become a Buddhist monk.

One of my best friends
was the child of a temple keeper,

and l'd go to the temple
every day to play.

There was a depiction
of the inferno there.

Just as we began work
on Jigoku,

an expensive book of ezoshi –
old illustrated booklets – was published.

When l showed the book
to Mr. Nakagawa, he said...

''Now l remember.''

That's how
that imagery started.

As far as religion goes...

it's said that if you do
something wrong, you go to hell.

First you cross the Sanzu,

and when you've crossed
the Sanzu

you're in the afterworld.

What awaits you in the afterworld

is a trial by the Judge of Hell.

Based on the results of that trial,

different hells are assigned to people
according to their sins.

That idea is true
to Buddhist tradition

but it's not the approach
we took in this film.

ln this movie

the protagonist
went through all kinds of hells,

because we wanted to illustrate

that these hinds of hells existed.

The whole of hell
was meant to be shown in the film.

Nakagawa's production designer

was a man named
Haruyasu Kurosawa.

The production design
in Nakagawa's films is brilliant.

l remember one scene very well.

There's a dead man lying
on an asphalt road.

There's dark water
spread over the paved road.

The shape the water takes

is Iike a spider's web.
It's really disturbing.

The hit-and-run victim
is lying in the middle of it.

They created
such a terrifying image

simply by splashing water
on the pavement

in that particular shape.

lt cost nothing
to splash some water around.

More than 15 years ago,

when l made my first horror film,
entitled Sweet Home

l contacted Mr. Kurosawa

and asked him
if he'd do the production design.

Unfortunately, he was busy
making TV commercials.

He was very interested,
but the scheduling didn't work out,

and l didn't get
to work with him.

This scene of hell

was filmed on the largest
soundstage at Shintoho,

and there were no props.

Just a huge, empty set.

Because l was working
somewhere else

l wasn't there myself,
but l heard about it later.

The set was filled
with countless actors playing sinners.

The actors themselves
dug the pits they were in.

The studio had
so little money at the time.

lt was right before
the company went bankrupt.

However, everyone wanted,

if nothing else,
to finish making the movie,

and to make it good.

Under ordinary circumstances,

the stage carpenters and others
would have done the digging.

But the actors joined in
digging the holes.

That stands out clearly
in my memory.

Because our budget was small,

we tried to compensate
by being resourceful and innovative.

When the Judge of Hell appears

and then we switch to a mirror

the small mirror
turns around and around.

For that shot
we used a washtub.

We put water in it,
added some colors

stirred the water
and filmed it from above.

The one set we actually built
was Needle Hell.

We used plastic for the set,

but the rest was mostly
done with Iighting.

We couldn't do it any other way.

Mr. Okura wanted us
to create those things.

''They want to see what the place is like
where the Judge of Hell lives.''

But we'd have quick/y
run out of money.

lnstead, we decided to hire
Kanjuro Arashi and use close-ups.

Mr. Nakagawa had been
making films

ever since he was a young director
in a certain tradition:

When shooting a scene in an inn,

even if they needed only one room,
they would construct the whole inn.

He'd learned his trade
in that environment.

So even though
the budget was low,

it's still amazing that he decided

to use Kurosawa's ideas.

Nakagawa's style of directing

was always to start
with a blank slate.

He made a variety
of different types of films.

ln the case of Jigoku,

he experimented a great deal.

More than any other of his films,
this was like a canvas

on which he experimented
with many things.

Tamura...

you sold the most precious thing
a man can possess:

You gave your conscience
over to evil.

Those who sign away
their conscience

suffer all the torments
of bottomless Hell.

l myself don't like gory movies.

Moreover, older Japanese movies
didn't show blood.

There used to be
an unstated rule about that

but from a certain point on,

they began to insert scenes
full of bloodshed.

That 40-minute sequence
is actually

what Okura wanted in the film

and what he considered
its most important elements:

the erotic, grotesque,
and nonsensical.

l think Okura wanted
more of those things.

But l think what Nakagawa
most wanted to show

was people
before and after that sequence.

Psychological suffering

can't be rendered
in visible form

So...

when we take suffering
and give it physical form,

we can only resort
to showing physical torture.

But the film is strictly
about psychological suffering,

though expressed
in visual images.

Shiro!

Yukiko! Harumi!

There are two sides
to every person.

A person is a combination
of these two sides.

That means, if not Faust,

at least what
we intended to present

is that the character of Numata

also represents
the other side of Shiro.

That's why l wrote,

''As long as you are Iike this,

l will never vanish,''

or something to that effect.

ln a less original movie,
the same actor plays both roles.

Like a doppelgänger...

or Jekyll and Hyde.

l didn't want to make the film that way.
l made it as you see it.

l always feel that

even when work is a struggle,
it's still enjoyable.

But this one was a real struggle.

l couldn't play the role
to the best of my ability,

and that was unfortunate.

l couldn't really
understand the role.

l wanted to do it
with a fuller understanding.

But maybe acting can't be
clearly understood.

Perhaps l'd encounter
the same difficulty today.

So you want to turn me in
for manslaughter?

We're the ones who killed him.

We caused it.

Let's go together.

Please.

That might ease your conscience,
but l'm not interested.

lt'd be stupid.

He was drunk.
He ran into the road.

lt was basically suicide.
Besides, he was just some yakuza scum.

He's not worth
the best years of our lives.

Thirty years ago, maybe 40,

the idea of ''original sin''

was very much on my mind.

What is karmic retribution?

Even if you don't violate the law,
evil deeds are evil deeds.

The idea that people go to hell

became the starting point.

Looking back now,

l feel we succeeded
in making the topic easy to digest.

But on the other hand

l also feel we didn't have to make it
in such a crudely popular fashion.

l feel both ways.

l remember Masahiro Ogi's
review of Jrgohu.

lt was full of harsh criticism.

''This film is Iike a tumor

that Shintoho developed
in its death throes.''

Some critics praised it profusely,

and others said
we rushed into production

because the company was folding.

They called the film
''a half-baked oddity.''

Opinions were extreme/y divided.

ln terms of box office...

because it was right before

the distribution system
of the company collapsed,

revenue was not very substantial.

Even so, l heard there were
more viewers than expected.

Not surprisingly,
about 40% of viewers

found the film disturbing.

ln other words, there was this urge
to see something scary.

But l was surprised
that many young people said

that they were moved
or the film was impressive.

But not the older people.

Everyone at the company
was pretty surprised by this.

Nakagawa often said, ''Akira Kurosawa
and Kon Ichikawa are so successful.

l'm the only one
who isn't critically respected.''

But that wasn't true.

Jigoku was real/y
ahead of its time.

That's what makes it so great.

lt was really pioneering.

l think the way ghosts
are presented in Japanese film

was established

mainly by Nakagawa.

ln the West
what's considered frightening

is an entity that attacks people

or exercises some effect on them.

l think that's central
to the Western sense of terror.

ln contrast, in Japan,

l think the frightening entities in film

and in traditionaI Japanese storytelling

are passive and don't do
anything in particular to us.

lt's this utter passivity
that causes our fear.

l think that's the fundamental
difference between the two traditions.

lemon...

the Tamiya bloodline
will end with you.

The way ghosts appear
in Japanese kaidan films

has been copied and adopted

by all the representative directors

in Japanese horror film today.

Hideo Nakata has copied it.

l have.

Takashi Shimizu has also.

The creators of
the Japanese Ring

invited Yoichi Numata

who appeared in Jigoku,
to perform in the film.

l heard it was
because they saw Jigoku.

They must have been surprised
because he'd aged so much.

ln Japan, we began our attempts

to restore that legacy of Japanese
ghost films in the 1990s.

Every film of Nakagawa's

is shot with a benevolent gaze.

ln the last scene of Jigoku,

you see lotus petals
falling in the background.

That image symbolizes

purification of the heart and mind.

Nakagawa always inserted
that kind of scene.

His horror films weren't meant
simply to scare people.

They would end with a scene

that had a cathartic effect
on the heart and mind.

l hadn't seen it in decades.

Honestly,
l wondered if l really wrote it.

l grabbed the screenplay
and took a look

which confirmed
that l did indeed write it.

Although it had been
shortened a great deal,

it really was my own work.

lt was quite a strange feeling.

l wish Mr. Nakagawa
was still around

to see the reputation his films
have acquired around the world.

l wish Mr. Nakagawa
could experience some of this.

He was right after all.

He created
many pioneering films.

They were all fun movies
that everyone could understand.

They were all
technically wonderful too.

He was very talented.

l wish l could tell him

''The world has finally
acknowledged your work.''

ln Japan...

l don't think l've ever shown
Nakagawa's films to my students.

lf l did, they would say,

''Oh, so that's where
Mr. Kurosawa gets his ideas.''

So l try not to show them
in Japan.

l think he's yet to receive
full critical appreciation.

Even in Japan,
Nakagawa is just beginning

to be truly appreciated,
l would say.

ln Eastern Asia, there are
mountain hermits called sennin.

They live on mist.

He was somehow always
aloof from worldly matters,

and he had the air of a sennin.

He was also fond of sake.

But this sennin
was afraid of his wife.

He used to say

he'd be full of drunken bluster
when he headed home

but he was still afraid
of her when he got there.

''Dear Mr. Nakagawa,''
l want to say,

''come back and see us again!''