All language subtitles for Getting.Over.2018.1080p.WEBRip.x264.AAC5.1-[YTS.MX]

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Congratulations, big.

Happy Bar Mitzvah and mazel tov
and all that kind of stuff.

Say to Jason, as long
as you stay a Yankee fan

have a happy Bar Mitzvah.

[Jason] As far as I knew,
I had a pretty good childhood.

May he be as proud of
his future as he is today

and may he be as happy
as he is today.

[Jason] My grandparents,
my mother, and I

were a pretty close-knit family,

and even though I only met
my father a couple of times

I felt like a normal kid
growing up in the Bronx.

Jason, this is Arnie.
Good luck, good health.

Your father loves you,
and he's sorry he can't be here.

[Jason] I can probably
count on both hands

the number of times I saw
my father during his life.

This is a photograph
of Joe Charnick

in his uniform, in early 1942,
with his short stay in the army.

I'm Arnie Charnick,
one of his two sons.

His other son's name
is Ray Charnick.

I'm 50, and Ray is 46.

It's 1997.

[elevator bell dings]

[Jason] In 1997, my uncle
recorded the last time

I would ever see
my father alive.

He was dying of AIDS,
a disease he caught

from a lifetime of IV drug use.

-We're bringing you your son.
-[Ray] Oh yeah?

-How you doing?
-Oh, man. Good.

-Oh, man.
-What's up?

-How you been?
-Good, I didn't think
I would see you again.

Oh, man, it's been
a long time for this.

[Jason]
I knew so little about my dad,

and what I found out
later would shatter

everything I thought I knew.

Yeah, well,
look at me now, this is me.

I held you when you were born.

I saw you when your ear came
out of the birth canal, man.

Big guy, kid.

Ain't nobody gonna
mess with him.

-[Arnie] No.
-[indistinct]
Wow, you're a monster, man.

-[Arnie] The monster lives.
-I just never pictured this...

Oh, yeah, this just came in
about a year, two years ago...

I'm bugging out over here.
I can't believe it.

Move the chair over.

You know your own strength.

Wow, man.

[Jason] My father died
shortly after our meeting.

When my mom died nine
days after my father,
I was devastated.

It was a much deeper,
much more personal thing to me.

I didn't have anyone
to ask for advice.

Nothing was clicking,
and I couldn't get
any forward momentum

going in my life and my career,

so, I was just going through
the motions at that point.

New York just wasn't
working for me anymore.

Before leaving,
my Uncle Arnie handed me
18 hours of tapes

of my father's last days.

See if we can get
his story on tape,

a legacy maybe
for his son, Jason.

[Jason] I packed them
with the rest of my boxes
and headed west.

LA wasn't any better
than New York.
I still felt alone.

I just had a real hard time
being just a mid-20s guy

who was getting
his career started

who didn't have many friends
and... because I was alone,

and I was trying to find

people to share
my life without here,

and it was just
really, really tough.

I also had to acknowledge
that I have the same

-addictive nature as my father.
-Wow, you're a monster, man.

[Jason] The biggest battle
I've had in my life

has been my addiction to food.

When I had last saw my father
I had bloomed over 320 pounds.

I finally decided
to look at the tapes.

My life was a bit
shiftless for a while.

I started filling it up
by watching these tapes,

and once I started watching
them I couldn't stop.

I was up watching
and transcribing these tapes

at one, two, three
in the morning,

all throughout the night
for, like, two weeks straight.

What my father said in
these tapes would redefine

everything I knew growing up.

It's like I'm appearing
on the John Leno show
or something.

[Arnie] Just start
anywhere you want.

I've probably been
running the streets

and using junk and
in and out of prison

for possibly the last
three decades, about 30 years.

Let me try to clarify this
the best I can.

Being on parole
for the four to eight,

I violated parole,
I went back upstate.

While on parole,
I again violated parole,
same parole officer.

I got a two and a half
to five-year sentence...

...that brings us to 1992.

I was out a short
period of time,

and I got an unauthorized
use of a motor vehicle.

Another one was for
missing a parole report...
I was discharged.

It was right across
the road to Comstock Station.

...and I started getting
high immediately.

He violated me again.

While I'm out now I get
pinched for the robbery

that occurred
in my brother's apartment.

My brother had been in Mexico,
and I had been paroled,

and I tried to extort them
for as much money as I can

when I found out that they
didn't have any kind of paper

saying that they are
renting an apartment.

Police busted me a couple of
days later doing my laundry,

and I got a four
to eight sentence.

[sighs]

You know, it's funny, I, uh...

I'm in my own house,
and I'm a little bit nervous

to talk to the camera,
say some things.

I've been talking out loud
for... [chuckles]

a couple of weeks now
as I'm watching
through these tapes,

and, uh,
you know, it's weird.

You hear your father talk
about certain memories,

things that you remember,

that he remembers these
same things as well,

and I'm going back
through my mind,

and I hear my dad
talk about times

that we would go
visit him in prison.

[Ray]
My wife came up to visit,

told me she had about
a quarter of an ounce

of reefer to give me...
to get me so-called started.

I remember trying to figure
out how I would get this

wrapped in Saran wrap, tight,

you know, the size
of my finger, passed to me.

I mean, you're not allowed
to have your hands on the table.

You're not allowed
to hold hands.

No kissing before or after.

The idea came to me
we got to do this now.

I'm gonna put my leg
as far as I can,

let her put it in my boot.

I went to the bathroom which
is the first cell on the flats,

and I greased up,
so, they say, which means

I put some Vaseline on my ass

that was brought down
ahead of time behind my ears,

and I keestered
the object, the reefer.

They picked me up
on the 45th day,

and I went to Sing Sing
to await transfer.

At that time, my wife
had come and brought me

a balloon full of Valiums.

It must have been between
60 and 90 Valiums,

and Sing Sing is very loose.

It was no problem
getting the Valiums in.

-And, uh...
-[Arnie] Up the keester again?

Yeah.

It's weird 'cause I'm redefining
all these memories

that have been
going on in my head.

My mom would smuggle him drugs.

Ninety Valium here, a quarter
ounce of marijuana there.

Who brings drugs to a prison
in the first place?

Why would you lug
along your child

and take the risk
that you would get caught

with those kinds of drugs?

I can't imagine what my mother

could have possibly
have been thinking.

I mean, these memories are
really very vivid in my mind.

[Ray] I went from
Clinton to Comstock.

Ninety days after you go
into the institution...

without any disciplinary action

you can get a family picnic
program in the trailer.

My father is speaking about...
he got approved
for this program,

and one time he speaks he says
it only happened one time

that my mom and I
went to visit him.

[Ray] Yeah, she came up
with the kid.

He was a couple of years old.

Yeah, he didn't know
where he was. He had a ball.

I was probably around
four years old, and he goes,

"Ah, the kid didn't know
where he was. He had a ball."

One, just a little throwaway
line about it.

Well, he got it half right.

I did have a ball,
and to this day,

I am 36 years old now,
and guessing that it was

about 32, 33 years ago,

it has been one of the most
vivid, vibrant memories

in my life, in my mind,
for the past 30, 32, 33, years.

It was me and a bunch
of other kids,

and we would go out
into this little center
courtyard and play.

It was one of those things
where the kids hang on,

and it's like a little
spinning wheel.

[theme music plays]

[Jason]
I remember being inside

watching the Superman
TV program in color.

I remember seeing
the opening credits

with Superman
flying through the air.

Actually, he was just there
and the background was moving,

but he says that I had
no idea where I was,

but I remember it so vividly.

In fact, my wife was still
on methadone program.

I remember now,
she had to leave her bottles

with a civilian
right outside the trailers

and each day pick up
her dose, drink it there,

and come back in.

Getting drugs was
absolutely no problem

on the family reunion.

I mean, forget it.
You're all alone.

You're kinda looking under
the lamps for bugs.

[Arnie] Did she you bring any?

Yes, she brought about
90 Valiums, I think.

Ninety Valium.
Ninety Valium.

How she would even
come about 90 Valium

is astounding to me.

[TV announcer]
With powers and abilities

far beyond those
of mortal men...

[Jason]
I could very well have been,

you know,
staring at the television
just like that watching Superman

while they were inside
popping Valium.

[soft chuckle]

Um... I guess I must have been a
real tough kid to deal with

that the one time
we go up to see him

that they need to
just pop pills.

[Ray] I got out where
I told my wife to meet me

by the tower at the big wall,
and she was there, new car.

[Arnie] With the kid?

[Ray] No, not with the kid.
She was there herself.

I remember getting in
the car in the front,

you know,
giving her a hug, getting close,

and the first thing I did
was take some Valiums
out of her pocketbook

and I had three,
ten milligram Valiums.

So actually,
probably within seven minutes

of my release from prison
I'm already high.

I don't know how
much longer it was.

It might have been
just a day or two

when I said to my wife,

"Listen, I'm going to cop.
I'm going to get high."

And, she said she was clean,

but I went through the projects
at Marble Hill to cop,

and of course, she told me
to get her one too.

[Arnie] Jason is just,
he's there though?

He's in his crib?
He's a kid, how old?

-He's got a bed.
-[Arnie] He's got a bed?

He's in his own room.

[Arnie]
How old is he at this time?

He's like two or three
years old or four?

[Ray] No, he's...

Five years old,
something like that.

[Arnie] How did you feel
about him at the time?

Oh, I felt great,
but ill at ease around him.

I didn't know what to say,
I didn't know how to
be a father.

He's watching TV
or Willy Wonka's
Chocolate Factory,

I remember the show.

[Man] Hurry up, Violet.

[Charlie] This way, grandpa.

♪ There is no life I know

♪ To compare with
pure imagination ♪

He comes up to me and says,
"Hey, Jason,"

while I'm watching Willy Wonka
and the Chocolate Factory.

He says, "Hey, Daddy."

But he didn't seem too excited
about me being there anyway.

I was like, "Yeah, Dad,
you know, whatever.

I'm watching TV,"

which if you know me now

only makes sense that I would
have been watching TV.

Uh...

But I felt...

as soon as I heard
him say it,

I felt... a guilt.

I... I don't know how you can
place the blame

on a little five-year-old kid,
but I felt guilty.

It would have been nice if I had
a welcome home sign on the door

or a little party or something.

I just spent
four years in prison.

I mean, that's what most people
get when they get released.

Their families are happy
to have them back.

At the time I was
too busy watching TV

to maybe turn around
and give him a hug and be like,

"Hey, Daddy, I haven't seen
you in god knows how long.
Let's hang out."

[Ray] These are
the tracks of my tears.

[Jason] He made his decision to
live this kind of life,

decided that sticking
a needle in his arm

was more important than me,
and I don't hold it against him.

Maybe a little bit,
[chuckles]

but, you know, I can't imagine
if he was straight,

if he was not on drugs at all,

he would have made a different
decision, if he was around.

You know, I think
I would have been a fun kid
to be around to raise.

[Ray] My wife who has
a big problem getting a hit

and able to send it
into her vein,

she doesn't want to be bothered,

so usually she goes
off into the bathroom.

Our little son is running
around the apartment,

I'm on parole,
I just got paroled,

knock on the door, no answer.

"Janet, come on.

You're in there too long, Janet.

Would you come on, please?
We got to go."

Now I'm bugging out.

"Janet?"

I break the bathroom door down.

I kick the door in,
my in-laws' house,

I actually broke
the wooden door.

My wife was on the floor.
She had OD'd seriously.

I did not know
what to do at all.

I mean, I was like...
[whooshing]

[Arnie indistinct]

Well, you know,
I can't leave her,

but I'm going back to jail
if I don't leave her.

It's just so fucked up to me.

It is so fucked up that A,

my parents were stupid enough,

foolish, fucking mental
to put needles in their arm

in A, my grandparents' house
and B, while I was there,
running around.

What are you sticking
needles in your arm for

when a little child
is running around?

I can't... I don't know.

And, she's blue.

And, finally
I got her out of it.

Janet opened her eyes,
like, slowly,

and the first thing
she said was,

"Can I get my shot now?"

Unbelievable. The shot she had
just did almost killed her.

She opened her eyes
and didn't move.

She was in the same position
laying on the floor,

and said, "Ray, can you
hook up my shot for me?"

But, that's what happens.

I cannot get across
plainly enough

how vivid this memory
is in my mind,

that I've had for 30 years,
30 plus years,

of my mother slipping
and hitting her head
in the bathroom

in my grandmother's house,
my grandma and grandpa's house,

of her slipping and hitting
her head in the bathtub,

and my father, during one of
the brief periods of times
we was home,

breaking the door down
and saving her.

'Cause it was a heroic moment
to me, I suppose.

You know, being a kid,
and you see your dad storm in

and break the door down,
and "I'm going
to save your mom."

I can count on both hands
the number of times

I saw my dad in my entire life,

and to have this one
main memory of him,

saving my mom from-from hitting
her head in the bathtub...

and to now know
that she OD'd on heroin...

We used to call it
not overdosing, but I would say,

"Man, that dope was good.
I went out."

"I fell out."

It's just fucked up, man,
to learn that this heroic image

that I had of my father
was actually,

he had just gotten high
by sticking a needle in his arm,

and my mom was getting high,
and she put in too much,

and she fell out, she OD'd.

And, it's just really
fucked up to know...

To have one of your
oldest memories

redefined right before your eyes

is a really, really
intense, twisted,

weird, strange feeling.

My mom was also
a stone-cold drug addict
when I was a child.

She had also, at least
for a brief period of time,
chosen drugs over me.

Well, I don't know if I can
say anything could hurt more.

[Ray] You could call it a game
when I started using drugs.

The possibility of hurting
somebody didn't exist.

It was get over
getting the money,

get over copping the drugs
without getting busted,

and get over in shooting it
and getting a decent bag.

That's it.
Now you're resolved.

That was a good day,

but the getting over
did not work.

I ended up with AIDS,
I live in a nursing home,

and there's no way
can I equate...

a possible win
with getting over.

[Jason]
Clearly, there's a lot of things
that I'm learning right now

that I had not known before,

like my mom was also
a pretty hardcore heroin user,

my father's life, you know,
crimes that he committed,

things... deeds that he did
to live, to survive.

A lot of stuff
that I didn't know.

Part of me feels like I should
be a different person.

I do feel something is
changing inside of me right now.

I was totally just ignorant.

You know, my mother did a very
good job of shielding me

from what was going on.

I was going to school,
I was doing my own thing,

and he was living his own life,
and I had no idea what that was.

[Ray] When the mind starts
asking questions about...

How come I can't remember
earlier than, like,
fifth and sixth grade,

when I'm talking to people
who remember

when they were four,
five years old.

I start to get a little scared,

but as you put
more things together,

such as the memory,
and the neighborhood,

and moving, and school,

some kind of
anti-administration settled in.

I did get into some problems
at Brooklyn Tech, you know,

forging notes to try
to get around my lateness
of the day,

or whatever, until that added up
to three years of that.

[Arnie] So, you're telling me
your first scam was forgery?

Yeah, yeah.

Who are you to tell me
I can't go home?

This is a free country.

[Jason] To get more of
a grasp on his existence

outside of me

for all those years

I see our paths now

as some sort of parallel,

not necessarily that
our lives were in parallel,

but to see that we were
both going through our lives

together on these
separate paths.

My mother is passed away now.

I don't have anyone else
to call upon...

and I still have
a lot of questions.

The only person I could
turn to is my Uncle Arnie.

It was time to go home.

There's more to me than there
was a month ago, a week ago.

There's more to who I am,
there's more to where I'm from,

and there's more
to come as well.

Like, there's things
I don't even know yet.

I realize now how
important it is

for me to come and reconnect
with this place.

It's really hard
to verbalize it.

It's my heart, it's my soul,
it's where I belong,

but at the same time
I know I can't be here.

I'm trying to keep that spark
of a sense of community

and connectedness and...

you know, and just that New York
heart and soul alive in me

'cause if I let it die,
and I let that connection
to this place die...

I can't have it.
I can't have it.

This is where I'm from.
This is where
I'll always be from.

Being back in New York
for the first time in 15 years

it felt like
nothing had changed.

New York is like that,
and Arnie was still living here,

still living in the same
apartment he'd called home
for the last 40 years.

It seems fitting
that I'd stay there, too,

in the same exact room
my father had crashed in
all those years ago.

[Arnie] I used to find it very
difficult to watch the tapes.

My reaction to it within
about eight to ten minutes

of viewing the tapes
was to fall asleep.

It was some kind of emotional
escape or something, I guess.

[Jason] It took me 15 years
to watch them
in the first place,

and I couldn't be more of
a procrastinator about that.

Every time...
I couldn't do it,
couldn't do it.

What made you decide to
want to record those videos?

-'Cause of the timing.
-[Jason]
Was it 'cause he was close?

The timing was
'cause he was near death,

so, something had a jig.

I pride myself on getting
creative ideas on something

sometimes under a little
deadline thing or something...
come up with an idea.

[Jason] So, you got some
equipment from some people...

Because I had the idea

it coincided with
the luck that he was at

the Cardinal Cooke Center
for dying AIDS patients.

You're still in jail,
but you can leave
for two hours every day.

So, it really was quite
a... altogether time there.

[Jason] Do you remember that
day at all when I showed up?

Sure.

The last time I saw you
was in Goldwater.

-[Jason] Five years ago, yeah?
-[Ray] Five years ago.

-You look good.
-So do you.

He seems real solid,
but obese at the same time.

-[Arnie] Right.
-You know what I mean?

[Arnie]
You wouldn't call him fat.

You call him solid,
solidly obese.

I was shocked when I said,

"Listen,
I'll get you McDonald's."

He said, "No."

When I was living back
with Janet and him,

she said, "Before you
finish the hamburger..."

He's, uh...

I think he'll be all right.
I think he'll lose that weight.

[Arnie] He's gonna have
to commit himself to it.

Yeah, it's not too healthy
to be that heavy.

-Hmm?
-[Arnie]
Look, Joe was a gambler,

we're drug addicts,
and he's an overeater.

Everybody's got there problems.

I will hint that our household

and our life in the Bronx
during our boyhood

was unique and
different and odd,

and I did not find out
the answers to why our family

was so different from others

until I was about 15 years old,
Ray was 11 years old.

It might be that
one right there.

-That's it.
-Right where it pushes
in the corner of the wall.

Just look at the number,
but I'm trying to do it by feel.

-1147.
-[Ray] That's it.

[Arnie] My grandfather,
Izzy, planted this tree
in something like 1967.

[Ray] About 40 years ago.

[Arnie] This tree
is about 40 years old.

Lots of baseball we played here.

Slug.

That was Chinese Handball.

-Slug, we used to call it.
-[Ray] We never called it slug.

I called it slug,
same thing I call this.

Here's the question,
who lived here?

[Ray] Who lived here?
Great important friends?

I wouldn't call 'em great
importance whatsoever,
but here's the hint--

[Ray] The only guy that
I know was there was Jushy.

[Arnie] The hint was mom
would say,

"Go get your father. He's over
Jushy's house," the bookie.

This is where dad would
hang out with his card players.

[Ray] Probably one of the
only Jewish bookies around.

I remember
going into the apartment,

and I was hanging out...
and one of the older guys says,

"Your father will be
with you in a minute.

Go wait in the room,"
and when I went into the room

there was a good
eight to ten shortwave radios

with horse races
coming over here,

and about four or five phones
going off at the same time.

Jushy and Schmeny
and Pussy and Private Joe.

[Arnie] Private Joe...

Private Joe was my father.

Now, I inherited a bit
of a gambling thing.

Matter of fact, I have a
poker game at my house tonight.
Did you, uh...

[Ray] I have a poker game
today, too, to be honest
with you.

You have to hustle.

So, both of us are
playing poker tonight.

We can't lose.
Where I am, we can't lose

because you don't
put anything in,

but you get a dollar
for every hand you win.

My father had the cheapest
radio made in this solar system,

and it would be such
a tinny sound.

[Arnie] Staticky, tinny.

[Ray] Staticky, tinny.

[Arnie]
I see that as his escape.

He just disappeared
into that staticky world.

[Ray] Like zombies, that's the
way it was, when I was a kid.

When I was younger,
I didn't analyze things.

I wasn't into psychology.

He was definitely
what they call 7:30 material,

and that's to determine
whether he's criminally
insane or not.

We're sitting in front of
1147 Manor Avenue in the Bronx

where we were kids together.

We lived with
my mother and father

in this apartment
on the first floor.

Someone else lives
in there right now,

but they're not home, so we
can't go into the apartment,

and right upstairs
in the top apartment

my grandmother and grandfather,
Izzy and Ida, lived,

and they owned the building.

Did you feel like I did?

That there was something
a little different?

[Ray] Oh, yeah, I definitely
felt there was something

-missing in the puzzle, but...
-We didn't know what it was.

[Ray] I can't... Right.

[Arnie] In 1962,
when I was 14 and you were ten,

mom opened the door
and there were
two military guys,

military MP's,
military policemen,
standing at the door,

and they were looking
for Joe, for dad.

And, he in fact was,
for lack of a better word,

hiding from being caught
for desertion from the army.

He basically hid here
with his mother and father.

He just stayed as a young man.

He lived with them,
so he didn't have to work,

and he continues
to do very little

except take little
under the table jobs

and get paid very,
very little money.

He wasn't hiding in the closet,

but he was doing as little...
the most minimum, minimum

low prior life
that he could possibly get

because he was afraid if his
name should pop up somewhere,

if he was to buy a car,
if he had a credit card

or whatever you got to do,
social security pop up,

his name would be registered

as a guy who was
being looked for.

I've always operated
on that that was a pretty,

maybe down pat,
but pretty good answer

for, uh, the fact
that you, perhaps,

have skirted the edge of society
in your criminal way,

and I have skirted the edge
of society in my artistic way.

I've never
carried identification.

It seems to me
that that relates to, like,
I don't want to be identified.

I don't want any credentials.

I've never had a credit card,
never even written a check.

Even though I'm 50 years old,
and I'm somewhat successful
in my own field,

I'm respected for my talent,

I've lived it in almost
a folk hero, romantic notion

of the artist as a rebel,
outside of the picture,

outside of the framework.

This is how I understood
that because of what dad did,

the hiding,
it affected our lives.

[Ray]
It's not as easy as all that.

What is not
as easy as all that?

[Ray] Patting me on the back,
and saying,

"Listen, I found the answer

to why I hop on a plane
and go to Bohemia,

and you hop on a boat to
go to the Lower East Side.

And I'm doing my artwork
in Jamaica,

And you're shooting dope
on Avenue C.

I got the reason why we do that,
and here's what it is.

We don't have to be
doing that anymore."

No, untrue.

[Ray] No, I know once
we were locked into it

there'd be no changing it.

You were already
on your mission.

I wish there was
a wand where they can...

Wave the wand and then say,

"Okay, I wish
the drug scene stops.

I wish the whole...

the entire criminality
and abandoned building living

and everything so crazy stop,"
But there is no wand.

It's not like I lived every day
since I'm 14 thinking,

"Well that's the answer to
my life. That's the answer.

That's why I'm having trouble
getting into the picture,

why I'm on the
outside looking in

because of how we were raised."

♪ I'm on the outside
looking in ♪

♪ I want to be
I want to be ♪

♪ Back on the inside

♪ With you

Yeah.

[Jason] We are
on our way to Manor Avenue

to the childhood home of
where Arnie and Ray grew up.

We can't even get
into the building.

Oh, yes, we can.

Oh, there it is.

That's the apartment
right there in the front.

None of these gates were here.

I got to pee so bad,
I hope they let us in.

So do I.

It's a different door,
literally, but the same doorway.

Grandparents lived
right above us.

Let's see if he's here.

[doorbell rings]

Yeah, look at this. Wow, this is
a weird feeling for me, man.

See, this was the place,
bathroom over there,

little kitchen here.

This was the room
I shared with my brother.

[Jason] So, it's just
a one-bedroom apartment?
Two-bedroom?

-[man] Two bedroom.
-[Arnie]
Two bedrooms in the front.

This is the room
I shared with my brother,

so, I'm sitting right over here.

-Okay.
-You see the doorway?

Right. All right,
so you're here.

I'm sitting there watching
the TV and somebody
opens the door,

and there's two military
police standing there,
come looking for my father.

[man] Your father?
Why were they looking for him?

-'Cause he deserted the army
in 1942.
-[man] Oh, okay.

[laughs]

They didn't find him
'til 20 years later.

The whole time
I'm living here as a kid

with my brother and my mother,

we didn't know
that my father was hiding.

And my father never spoke,

-and he always
just sat in that room.
-Sat in that room.

And, I never knew why.

But, on that day,
the next day, when my mother

was telling me the story why

I started to know that we were
hiding the whole time.

When my father was finally
free of the army,

my grandmother and father
sold the building,
moved to Florida,

Then my family moved
to the projects across town,

Marble Hill projects,
and that's where my brother...

I was already out of the house,
I was living my life
as a 20-year-old,

my brother was 16
and started doing heroin,

and he just
went off in the '70s.

In the '70s and '80s.

And, here's the key.
You ready for this?

[man] Ready for what?

If you add up the times

my brother spent in prison,

he was a junkie
and a thief, conman,

-all of that, for 30 years.
-[man] Wow.

-But for 20... 20.
-[man] He was hiding?

-Twenty, no,
20 of those 30 years
-[man] Uh-huh.

he was in prison.
Not... not for
a 20-year sentence,

but as a repeat offender,
two to four,

four to eight,
he'd do two years.

And, the total amount of time
he spent in the system

was 20 years...

-Which is exactly...
-[man] Twenty years...

Which is exactly the 20 years
that my father was hiding.

The point is,
somebody had to pay the dues.

My father got off.

He didn't go to prison
or get shot,

of course, he's mentally
disturbed 'cause of
how he lived.

But somebody... it's like,

Okay, somebody's got
to pay the fucking dues.

Somebody's got to
pay the price here.

-And my brother...
-[man indistinct]

And my brother...
My brother, he paid
for the sins of the father.

He did 20 years. I think,
"Well, how could that be?

That's 20 years, 20..."

It's like a story.
You can't write the script.

[man on PA indistinct]

I got some info
from a buddy of mine

who I went to elementary school
with in the Bronx.

He's a lawyer now, and he
gave me the name and number

of someone to speak to at
the Bronx County Courthouse

to get some more information
on my dad's criminal record,

so I'm gonna go inside
and see what they have.

Any drug addict's
wrap sheet will explain,

or you can look at it and
know just when he went off

and started really abusing,

because you don't
get enough money

with the con game that I used
to use in the beginning

'cause I'm not really
conning anybody.

They're happy to give me
three dollars,

and I'm happy to take it,
period, end of story.

So, I just came out
of the courthouse,

spoke to a guy in there, uh,
in their microfilm room.

He said they didn't have
the records on microfilm,

but he looked it up
by hand, and they got...

The earliest one
they got is April 3rd, 1971.

He was indicted in robbery
in the first degree,

plead guilty
to attempted robbery,

and got five years probation.

They gave me the
indictment number, 21-85-71.

If I didn't get these...

breaking points
by going to prison,

whatever the length of time was,

I can be pretty sure I would
have been deceased already.

You see the front here
and the back,

a lot of light, a lot of space.

It's my apartment and my studio
for the last 34 years.

So, this was the place where
there were NYU students
living here once?

[Arnie] This was the apartment
that I sublet

to three NYU students,
once in the winter

when I went to Mexico
with my girlfriend, Sherry,

and Ray didn't barge in.

He simply said to them
he was my brother,

and they figured, "Well, his
brother needs to get something

out of the apartment,"
standard routine,

which is to turn into
a menacing, menacing...

All of a sudden, he can be...

He's got his teeth in,
he's smiling,

and he seems like a jovial,
affable chap,

and the next thing you know
he's holding his back pocket

as if he's gonna
take out a knife...

or his coat pocket
and snarlingly, menacingly says,

"Please don't make me
do something to you

I don't want to do,"
as if he would hurt you

or stab you or maim you
if you don't give him
what he requires.

And all three students
gave up whatever they had.
They were scare shitless.

If you see the irony, he told
them that he was my brother,

so he had a record,
and the police simply

went looking around
for the description
of the guy who was my brother.

Once he showed up
as Ray Charwick

he was put back in
for another two to four,
or something like that.

I don't remember what.
I get all the prison
and the parole times mixed up.

It happened over
a 30-year period.

[Jason] There's a lot of stuff
in there to get confused about.

[Arnie] If you're starting me
on a litany of the people
that Ray ripped off,

close friends and me,
then that would be
a whole rap in that direction

that I don't have to
necessarily start, so...

[Jason] You don't
want to talk about that?

-It seems like you remember.
-Part of me
wants to spew about it, sure...

-[Jason] Go ahead.
-to say that he robbed me,
but saying those words alone.

He robbed
my closest friends, yeah.

[Jason] How many times
would you say he robbed you?

Well, that depends
if robbing my friends

is not robbing me of their
trust and all of that.

A friend of mine trusted him

to sell Christmas trees
one winter.

Sam would front the money
for the Christmas trees,

and Ray would sell the trees,
get cash all the time,
and give Sam his cut.

Ray did that for
a couple of weeks for Sam,

blew my mind, made some money,
seemed to stay straight.

And then when it was over,

within three days later,
he... burst his way

into Sam's house
and stole an overcoat

worth a lot of money, and cash,

by threatening
and intimidating Sam,

his complete, trusting padrone.

When you called me
in I think '87,

probably shortly after
you were diagnosed with HIV,

this was after a couple of years

-where I had finally
cut you off.
-Mm-hmm.

I felt that the haunting,
get rid of the haunting,

the rip-off,
gonna rip me off a few times,

you were haunting my mind,
you were always there.

I couldn't figure you out...
'cause you were lying to me
all the time.

I was convinced that you were
a pathological liar

in terms of the whole drug,
survival thing,

so I had to cut you off,
so I cut you off.

I stopped visiting you
in prison,

and I stopped seeing you.

So, when you called me
and told me that you had HIV,
I didn't believe you.

-[Ray] Mm-hmm.
-To me it was like
a last-ditch effort.

-[Ray] A last con, yeah.
-Or, the last con.

That I couldn't think of
anything else to use.

[Arnie] You had run out
of every scam.

That's it. The only thing
I could have used was that.

[Arnie] It was
the last final plea.

And, I understand you feeling
that way very easily.

All I'm pointing out
when I'm rapping about this

is that when one is
the victim or subject
to a pathology of lying,

one starts to not
believe anything anymore.

All this stuff that is
thrown right in my face,

I had blocks against it.

All I can tell you
is that for many years

I felt a victim
of the ultimate conman.

The ultimate conman had me
in such a defensive place

that it actually made me
look at the whole
world differently.

Every new thing
that happens I think,

"Are they getting over on me?
Is this getting over on me?

Don't get over. I don't want
to hear it anymore,"

and in a way you set me up
for my skin being thickened.

Every lie that you told me,

my skin got thicker
and thicker and thicker,
my psychic scale.

I would have
actually appreciated

if I could de-thicken
my skin a little bit,

so I could be a little more
sensitive to the world.

I do remember
he did call me to tell me

that he was allowed to go
to the federal penitentiary

for a year down in Talladega
and spend a year there.

So somehow, he was smart
enough to finagle that

which was pretty amazing.

I finally made it
to Talladega, Alabama...

and I met a couple of guys
from the state system, in fact.

I was a little scared at first
because I didn't know the
way their system was run,

number one. Number two...

you know, being in a state where

I didn't even know
the way they would take

a junkie from New York City.

You know...

They weren't too fond of it,
put it that way.

I found out pretty quick.

Well, let me tell
you what happened

while I'm working
in the rec shack.

The last 30 game winner,
pitching, Detroit Tigers,

Mr. Denny McClain,
a baseball player in the '60s,

an excellent pitcher,
was doing time
in Talladega also.

Talladega was a
college campus, it really was.

Except for the fact
that you couldn't go home,

you wouldn't be able to tell it
from a college campus,

and they had a lot of
people in that place,
a lot, a lot of people.

The humorous aspect of it
that I remember

was that Denny McClain
loved to drink Pepsi,

and Ray had a connection
to swag Pepsi.

Ray was smart enough to
make some connections
along the way for some things.

[Ray] I used to get,
I think it was,

a case and a half
of Pepsi a day.

Sometimes Denny would come to me

as if I was a guy
selling heroin.

The guy needed a fix.

He was certainly
hooked on these Pepsis.

You never saw him without one,

and it was a good financial
arrangement for me.

[Jason] So, what are your
initial thoughts
after you see that?

Do you remember
anything specifically?

I saw you had
an instant reaction

to Pepsi being your heroin.

First of all... I hope you know
your dad was a
bookmaker in jail.

[Jason]
It wouldn't surprise me.

He was the main guy in jail

because he had all
the access to all the units,

someone had to be,
so he was the local bookmaker.

Of course, in that environment
you pay with Pepsi,

you pay with cakes,
you pay with cookies,

peanuts, tuna fish,
whatever the hell it is.

And, um, so, he was the guy,
and he had a whole crew

that would move his
paperwork around for him,

take care of the bets,
and he paid those guys, too.

Did he tell you about
burning the cell?

They burnt him
out of his cell once.

I'm coming out of this sleep.

I don't know
really what's happening,

and I'm in the cubicle
that's on fire.

They left a sign on my cell.

You know...

"Do not let out.
AIDS infected human being."

That's what it was.
They found out he had AIDS.

[Jason] And, they found out
he had AIDS.

And, nobody understood
AIDS at the time,

so they figured he was gonna
spread it to everybody.

People found out, and hey,

if we got somebody
next to us with that

we just run 'em out of town.

They didn't want to
take a chance drinking
at the same fountain.

I think the real culprit...
mission of these people

was to get him out of the pod
because they were scared.

Davey, hey, hi, how are you?

-Jason.
-Good to see you again.

-So, this is...
-[Arnie] Hey, Dave.

You might remember...

You don't look
too familiar to me.

But, it's only 50 years,
give or take.

It's good to see you.
Hey, come on in.

Awesome, awesome. Come on in,
and we'll chat a little bit.

[David] All right, all right.

It's like the other side
of the world here,

that's for sure,
but I'm still curious

how'd you get
in touch with Dave?

Oh, well, actually...
I'll let you tell the story.

-He found me on Facebook.
-He found you?

He found me on Facebook.

I'll let you tell the story.

-You found him?
-Yeah.

This summer,
my daughter who's 25,

just happened to need
a tonsillectomy

'cause she'd been getting
a lot of sore throats.

She lives about 50,
60 miles from here,

but I was visiting
and hanging out with her

and trying to tell her
stories to cheer her up

'cause she wasn't
feeling real well,

so I was telling her
some stories of my childhood

and some of the weird things
kids did to each other,

some of them a
little unprintable,

but you know how
weird we were in the Bronx

-with some of the other kids.
-From the old neighborhood?

From the old neighborhood,
from grade school,

from whatever, or as we
called it, public school.

And my...
Her mother, my ex-wife,

says to me,
just literally out of the blue,

'cause I'm talking
about people and giving names

she says, "You know, is there
anybody from your childhood

who you haven't
had any contact with

that if you could
you'd like to find?"

And, I guess it was fate
or something,

because it's not like
I think about it all the time.

The first name,
and a picture of his face

popped into my head,
and I said Raymond Charnick.

My brother was the first name?

[Dave]
First name that came out.

The only name,
the only thing I said.

[Jason] Why was he so
memorable from those days?

What I remember about
your father was one,

he had the palest
blonde hair, beautiful.

[Arnie] Almost albino.

[Dave] He always combed it,
and he dressed much nicer

than we did as kids.

Ray always looked nice,
and even as a kid,

girls seemed to like him,
even as a ten and 11-year-old.

-[Arnie] He was a
very good-looking kid.
-[Jason] A ladies' man?

As Dave said,
he always looked nice.

We were poor,
but Ray his whole life,

-'til the end,
-Well, neatness...

had a thing about neatness
and orderliness.

-And, you remember that?
-Yeah.

-It just was...
-He just always looked nice.

...something noticeable, and he
had a little bit of presence

related to that,
but he was a nice boy.

-He really was a very nice,
sweet kid.
-He was a sweet kid.

And, the word I use,
which you didn't think of then,

but I would use now was calm.

Some of us were a
little nutsier, I think.

[Jason] Well, I mean,
you're 12 years old,

you're running around
just being boisterous.

[Dave] He really
wasn't that way,

and that was
something different.

So, we could spend time
and hang out and do whatever.

[Jason] So if you guys,
especially if you shared
a backyard,

were you at their house a lot?

Were you at my
grandparents' house?

He says he doesn't remember.

I was around the house,
more in the front.

[stutters]

You know, my recollection is
there wasn't a lot of inviting
into the house.

[Arnie] There wasn't.
I told you, my family was
not exactly a social family.

So, it was never like,
"Oh, Ray, tell Davey...

Ray would come over
for lunch and dinner."

We always went somewhere.
People hardly ever came to us.

It was actually
more the other way around.

-Okay.
-I don't even remember any
contact with your father.

My father was hiding
from being caught

for desertion in World War II.

I was probably
about 17 years old

when I went into the park
and had Melvin Brown

get me off with a shot.

But to sit here...

To sit down and try to use
every cell I have

to figure out why I did that...

It is virtually impossible
to understand

why somebody would leave
their room in the projects,

go downstairs, walk across
the street and shoot heroin.

[Arnie]
Let me ask you a question.

-That room that you left
in the projects...
-Yeah.

across the street, was anything
happening in that room?

Well, my brother used to
have a bed in that room
at the same time,

but I don't think he
really ever lived there.

-[Jason] You leave
the city entirely...
-Yep.

and then he decides
to go into this stuff.

And, then he decided
to go into the stuff.

[Jason] And, then he goes
into the park and meets
with Melvin.

Pretty much it seems to be--

Everything is empty
after that point.

That's what I...
pretty easy to say.

He kept coming home to a very
empty life in his apartment

-once I was officially gone.
-[Jason] Did you... do you...

I felt guilty about that
for 20 years,

'cause I feel like
I abandoned my brother,

and that was the color
of my 20s, 30s, and 40s.

There wasn't anything
happening in that house.

There wasn't anything
happening on that block.

In fact, nothing was happening.

Even if something bad happened,
it would have been good,
I think,

because you need
more stimulation

than to just go to school
and come back.

It's hard to picture this,

but the household
that I lived in

in the Bronx with my brother
and my mother and father

was devoid...
devoid of culture in any way.

There were no books,
no record players,

nothing like that at all.

Black and white TV that
didn't work that good at all.

My mother used to
go back behind there

with her screwdriver
and somehow get the snow

to clear up a little bit.

We didn't even get it until
about 1961 or something,

and so, one memory my
brother and I share

is that very, very little
happened in that apartment.

So, when I went to music and art
high school in 1960

and met kids whose parents
played at the Philharmonic
with jazz musicians,

or actual artists who were
raising their kids in Manhattan,

uh, it was a total blast
of...

cultural information

that intrigued me enough
to just want to be
involved in that only.

And I can't remember what was
going down in our lives,

but I can remember
him and me playing in a box

with two holes cut out
of it in a bedroom.

It was an empty stove box
or refrigerator,

and that was our little fort.

Why I can remember that
particular thing, I don't know.

It was just because
there's no reason

to remember things that far back

or all the pain
tries to cover up those years.

[Jason] What would
drive someone to do that?
You know, so...

Well, let's talk
about this for a second.

Your father was vulnerable.

He was and had to
be wildly insecure.

[Jason] Sure, absolutely.

Terrified on some level
that he would be caught.

So, had he not been in the Bronx

he may not have
been near a park,

and he may not have had
access to someone
who offered him heroin.

He may have grown up in
Kansas City or South Bend.

He might have gone into a bar,

and he might have started
a long career drinking,

but once he did accept it,

what the heroin did was
it removed his anxiety...

-[Jason] Absolutely.
-...and his stress.

-[Jason] He says as much.
-Yeah, of course.

I mean, that's what it's about.

You're suddenly whole
and well and comfortable,

and you're 17, and probably
for the first time in his life

those horrible voices
that were in his head,

that were in his heart,
that were in his soul were gone.

So, I have a lot of sympathy
and tenderness for him...

-[Jason] Mm-hmm.
-...and all those
who suffer, you know?

[Jason] Making this movie,
seeing, you know...

learning more about
just what the mind of an addict

is all about and why they
make the choices that they do

-and how they're not
made in a vacuum.
-He didn't have a choice.

[Jason] Yeah, the choices
are not made in a vacuum,

and then you learn that
they're not really choices.

-He didn't have a choice.

[Jason] That's when you
start to learn...

[Stuart] He was a poor boy
who got caught up in something

that was much bigger than him,

and he was not
offered a way out.

It's not that we
don't want to change,

and it's not that...

we don't know how to change,
it's just that we can't.

I'm not one to place blame,
and I'm not one to hold grudges.

Right, and you've
always felt compassion

for the fact that Joe
didn't have much of...
or any life at all.

[Ray] Yeah, of course. I'm as
sensitive as the next guy.

When you hear the guy's a fiend,
a dope fiend, a drug addict,

it doesn't mean
that he has no feeling.

He might have too many,
too much... too many...

-He's got to get rid of some
by masking it with the drugs.
-[Arnie] Right.

[Jason] You see it
every step of the way

as a choice that you just make,

and you don't see all
the other stuff around you.

You don't fill in that picture,

and that's why I wanted to
speak to you and see that side.

I was intrigued
when you called me by this

because I immediately
recognized how...

powerful this conversation
you're having with yourself
could be.

I say to myself if I know
what I want to go back to...

why don't I just do it?

And, the reason is, is that
I hadn't done it...

for 17 years,

and after a period of time
you just cannot...

revert back, and you...

You hurt because
you've changed so much,

and the people
around you see it,

and you realize it, and it
doesn't matter who you talk to

or what you do...
it never goes away.

I don't make
moral judgments about this.

People become dependent on it,
and it takes over.

The brain is now saying,
"I need this for my survival,

and I will kill, I will screw,

I will do anything
that's necessary

for me to get what I need."

And, this is happening
on a subliminal level.

So, you're talking about
individuals who

will be making choices
that are geared towards getting
what they believe they need.

[Jason]
This is 2861 Exterior Street.

We're in the Marble Hill
projects in the Bronx.

This is where my dad moved
with my grandparents

after Arnie moved to
Cooper Union for school.

Uh, supposedly, my dad one day
just came out into the park,

and it's probably
this green area right here,

which is funny, because
even though I lived

maybe five minutes
back that way,

I've never been in
this central area.

All the buildings for
the Marble Hill projects

are all in one big circle,

and they said that he
walked into the park one day

and asked big bad
Melvin Brown to hook him up,

and they were living here.

I always thought the park,
I figured he went
to a park somewhere,

but this is probably
what was happening.

There's all these
benches around.

He was probably
sitting on the bench,

and he probably
went up to wherever

big bad Melvin Brown was
on one of these benches

and probably did his first
shot of heroin right here.

It's a different vibe
here than Manor Avenue,

there's no doubt about it.

Already with a house with
no love and no emotion,

and here you are with just
gray, drab, red buildings.

You lose your sense of identity.
There's garbage everywhere.

I mean, this green area
should be gorgeous
and beautiful,

rain or shine,
and there's bags in the trees,

and garbage,
pizza boxes, beer boxes.

It's probably the same way
back in the '50s,

so why would anywhere care?

Why not escape?

Why wouldn't you want to
walk into this area

and be anywhere else but here?

So, stick a needle in your arm,

you can go anywhere
while still not having

to leave the confines
of this block.

So, I do, actually...

This is the first time
I've ever been here,
like I said.

I can understand
a little bit more

why he would feel that way,
why he would do that.

I don't know why he would
go from zero to heroin,

but I can definitely
at least understand

why there would be
a sense of disconnect.

I feel sorry for my dad because
he never got the opportunity
to break out.

He was already in prison,
so I understand it.

I feel sorry that that's
the life that was given to him,
you know,

and hopefully I can do
a little part

to try to break out of that
and do something different

for my family and my future
and not restrict them.

This is not the same Bronx.
This is not my Bronx.

This is his Bronx.
I love my mother.

I miss my mother more than
anything else right now

'cause she must have tried
her God damnedest

to keep me out
of this type of shit,

to have heroin users
ten minutes from your doorstep.

Let's get out of here.

I mean shit, look at that.
There's a dead bird
right on the ground.

What does that tell you
about this place?

Anxiety is pain.
Pain creates anger.

All of these things are
horrible things to live with,

and what makes it go away?

Another fix, and it's easy,

and there's no instruction
manual necessary,

no psychiatrist,
no psychologist, no group work.

-[Jason] Right, right.
-You know?

You're a kid.

Even the smart choice
on some level.

So, do you think he knew
it wasn't a good idea?
Of course.

So, yeah, that's
about five, six months

before he passed away.

-[David] How old was he?
-[Arnie] He died at 47.

[Jason] So what happened,
I had actually just graduated
from college,

and I came back and visited him,
showed him my college diploma.

Nobody in our family's
ever got a college degree.

[Arnie]
It's pretty amazing, right?

I did two,
about two and half years.

[overlapping chatter]

Bachelor of Arts
in Psychology?

[Jason] Yeah, psychology.

Shaking me out, dude.

[laughs]

Oh, man, with all
the honors and everything.

[Jason] And then one day
just took off from there.

[Arnie] They found
crack vials under his bed.

So, what did he use?
All sorts of things?

He started as a heroin...
and he confessed to me--

-That was the '60s still?
-Right, and he said--

-[Jason]
That was... that's only...
-He made that face, right?

No, no,
that's pretty much how he was.

[David] I mean, the eyes.
Oh, God.

I was his health proxy...

making decisions about
keeping him on any life support,

and I was
driving across country,

and when I got to
Bisbee, Arizona,

where my kids' mother lives,

I got a call from
the prison hospital at Bellevue

asking me what to do
'cause he was ready to go,

and I said, "Of course,
pull the plug."

So, the next day I called
the medical examiner's office
in New York,

and the receptionist
who answered the phone,

she said, either blurted it out,
she said,

"You know, sir, if you don't
claim a body in New York

we will bury the body
on Hart Island,"

and it's off of
City Island in the Bronx.

That's an uninhabited island
where they bury the bodies

of unclaimed people.

And when I heard her
say it was Hart Island,

I took it quite personally
in a good way, because we...

My brother and I used to play
on Orchard Beach in City Island

and look out
and see this island,

but not know what it was
all about when we were kids,

so I thought that was
a perfect, complete circle

for Ray to be buried
by the state on an island

off of where we used to
play when we were kids.

So, I agreed to that.

I said, "Lady, I'm not
coming to New York.

I'm not gonna have
anybody pick up his body

to have it cremated
or anything.

I'm not gonna claim the body.

Bury him on Potter's Field
in the Bronx."

[train rumbling]

[Jason]
So, we're going on Wednesday.

So, I'm gonna get a chance
to visit the island.

[Arnie] This is springtime.

It's supposed to be
lovely weather,

and you'll see
a beautiful place.

Because, without prompting
you too much,

if I remember right,
at the time,

you would have not made
the decision that I made,

to bury... as his son,
if it was your decision,

you probably would not have
gone with the unclaimed body
to Potter's Field.

[Jason] No, no...

Since I'm actually telling
you the whole story

and still trying
to convince you.

How many times do I have
to tell you the story
to convince you?

-[Jason]
Listen, I would be lying...
-It doesn't matter.

[Jason] If I, you know...
[stuttering]

I'll tell you the truth,
and I'll be honest with you,

I don't know if I've
told you this before.

Be honest with me.

[Jason] It's... I'm not upset
at you or anybody in our family

that made that decision,
and ever since, you know,

like you said, I've heard
the story a few times.

That's the last time
I'm gonna tell it.

-[Jason]
And it's a good story.
-No more takes.

[Jason] And... it makes sense,
and I like that reason.

The only thing that still,
to this day upsets me,

if anything,
is nobody asked me.

-What can I expect from this?
-What can you expect?

How the hell
am I supposed to know
what you're supposed to expect?

[chuckles]
I have no idea.

[man] What's going
through your head right now?

I'm just anxious. I'm anxious
to see what it looks like,

what the island looks like,
and what the area is.

I've never been to
City Island before.

Coming up on the island,
Hart Island where
my dad is buried,

and it's very tranquil,
isolated.

It's gorgeous.

It really is.

It's not nearly as dark
as you would imagine it to be.

It's a beautiful place.
I get it now.

Yeah, I'm... I'm pleased.

The escape thing, I've always
equated the two together,

jokingly calling myself
the escape artist,

because I was technically
an artist with the paint,

so the obvious play of word
there, the escape artist...

And Ray I used to
call the con artist

because he was always conning
people to get over on them,

but... at one point
I sorta thought

it was really
the other way around

because Ray had been
covered for 30 years.

He was either high
and didn't care,

or he was in prison where
they were taking care of him
with three meals.

And so he sort of escaped
the responsibility of life,

so, in a sense,
I still have to think of him
as the escape artist.

I was this artist
making paintings,
trying to sell to people.

So, in a way
I felt I was conning them

into buying something
I was making,

so the whole thing
flipped around,

and I became the con artist,
and he was the escape artist

'cause he really
escaped responsibility.

And, in fact, of being a father.

How did you feel
about your father, Joe?

Do you remember how
you felt about him?

-No feelings about my father.
-[Arnie] No feelings.

Did you feel like
you had a father?

-[Ray] No.
-[Arnie]
You know he was there, right?

[Ray] No.

[Arnie] You wasn't sure
if he was there or not?

[Ray] I wasn't sure whether
I was even adopted or not.

I questioned that a lot, yeah.

[Arnie] You felt that
you could have been adopted?

Mm-hmm.

I even asked my mother that
last year for the first time.

[Arnie] Really?

Yeah, because I just
felt out of the picture.

[Arnie] There never
seemed to be a connection?
There never seemed to be a...

[Ray] Other than... Other than
knowing we're all related,

but not acting
or feeling related.

I know you're my brother.
I know she's my grandmother.

She knows dad's her son,
all these things,

but that's all it is, is that...

-[Arnie] Detachment?
-You know...

It's a scary thing to not
remember your childhood.

I really believe that
something happened to me,

and I might have been in a coma.
Nobody just forgets.

You know, your brain is capable
of so many functions.

How do you forget everything
that you grew up?

I mean, I have
no connection at all.

[Jason] To say that
I was disconnected

from my friends and family
when I started this journey

would be an understatement.

Without my parents,
without a family,

I felt alone in this
world yet again,

but as I was finally getting
the chance to know my dad

and learn more about him
and who I was

and where I came from,
the funniest thing
started to happen.

I ended up meeting
the love of my life,

got married, and not only
reconnected with my uncle,

but the rest of my
extended family as well.

People I practically
abandoned when I moved to LA,

returned to my life
closer than ever before.

And as the next chapter in my
life is just getting started,

the void I had when I first
watched these tapes

has now been filled
with a love and a happiness

I have never known before.

[Arnie] Do you mind
that we're doing this?

I don't like it, it hurts.

It hurts, it's... because...

It hurts because it's scary.

-[Arnie] But even though...
-Because...

[Arnie] You're intelligent,
and if we keep talking about it,

-and we kept an understanding--
-See, you say I'm intelligent,

and I know I am intelligent,
but maybe I'm so good,

so good at conning people,

maybe I'm conning you
about my intelligence.

Maybe I actually don't know
what I'm talking about,

but I'm such a good con artist

that I have you believing
that I'm intelligent,

but actually,
I'm using all my energy now

to make everything up, so you
would think I'm intelligent.

I'm just trying to show you
how the lack of love

and the manipulation
and the con games

and the prison and the drugs

do not set up for
a good life experience.

I don't think anybody
will understand

that I hurt 25 hours a day.

There is no let up.

It's not good for a person
with my physical maladies
right now.

I am stressed out
25 hours a day...

because I'm always
busy analyzing why I feel
the way I do.

When I feel really good,
I question whether
I'm on my way...

I'm dying, because I'm not
supposed to feel good.

How the... how can I feel good?

I get scared that I'm dying

because I don't associate
feeling good.

For the last 30 years
I have not felt good,

so that feeling now
is too hard to deal with.

It's so far removed
that I got myself convinced

I'm not supposed to feel good.

[Arnie] I see your pain,
and I'm feeling it for sure.

I told Sky in the beginning
it was all an experiment.

I said it can either be...
this whole thing
could be good for you,

or it can drain you
and it can be bad for you.

So far, well, I understand.

[Arnie] I don't want to
put you through it.

Right now, it's doing both.

It's... making me feel good
that I'm understanding more

about my life experiences
and family,

and it's also draining me
emotionally at the same time.

[Arnie]
Any recurring kinda dreams?

I dream about things
that are prison related.

[Arnie]
Being hung out on a limb?

No...
[Arnie]
Being hung out on a limb, or...?

I had a recurring dream...
when I was very young.

-It was a long time ago.
-[Arnie] What was it?

You don't have to give detail,
but what was the essence...?

That I was able to fly,
that's... you know.

[Arnie] You were flying?

[Ray] Yeah, I had my arms out
and I'd run down Manor Avenue,

and I'd take off,
and I'd fly above,
you know, calm.

Yeah, no, I see myself
being relaxed and chilled,

and then I knew I was
gonna run out of gas,

so I got to come down.

[Arnie] With your case,
that might relate
to getting high,

but you know that standard
psychology behind a flying dream

is that you feel free and in
your life you're actually free.

[Ray] It was recurring enough.

[Arnie] How old were you,
do you remember, generally?

[Ray] I have no idea,
but I know it was up until
not long ago that I got 'em.

[woman] Did it make you feel
good when you had that dream?

[Ray] Yeah.

[Jason] I have to
thank my uncle for
the great gift of these tapes.

I only met my father five times,

and now I've spent more time
watching his interviews

than ever talking with him,

but to see him convey
at least some regret,

some self-awareness,
and to know that

as all these things
were happening

and as this evil gripped him,

he still had some love
in his heart.

He had something that
heroin could never touch.

I get that he loved me.

It didn't take everything.

And for me, it has to be enough.