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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:27,560 This programme contains very strong language and some scenes of a sexual nature. 2 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,400 MUSIC: "C'mon Everybody" by Eddie Cochrane 3 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:12,680 Wonder what we'll get. 4 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,880 I'd like a nice juicy murder, lashings of blood. 5 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:18,600 Oh, don't say that. 6 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,360 I don't even like going in the butcher's. 7 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,680 D'you know how long a trial goes on? As long as it takes, I imagine. 8 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,920 No, but, I mean, do they have breaks, like if someone wanted the toilet? 9 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,200 Yes, I was wondering that. 10 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:37,360 The jury system has been going for 800 years, so I should think they would have thought of that by now. 11 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,880 I should cocoa! Oh, right. 12 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,320 Thank you. 13 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,520 Follow me, please. 14 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,560 Members of the jury, as your name is called, you will stand, 15 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,640 take the book in your right hand, and read the words on the card. 16 00:02:15,640 --> 00:02:18,440 Raymond Charles Topping. 17 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,120 I swear by Almighty God... 18 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,560 ..I will well and truly try the several issues joined... 19 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,520 Keith Ernest Gray. 20 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,400 ..and a true verdict give according to the evidence. 21 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,720 'I don't mind telling you, I was terrified.' 22 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,360 I'd never been in a court before, or even been stopped by a policeman, 23 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:06,400 so when the summons came, I thought, "This is it, they got me now!" 24 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,040 'I was actually quite pleased to get the summons.' 25 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:17,400 I thought it might be quite a diversion, for while I was waiting for what happened next. 26 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,240 'My life was at a bit of a standstill, to be quite frank with you.' 27 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:26,560 Members of the jury, the prisoner at the Bar, Penguin Books Limited, 28 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:33,040 is charged with publishing an obscene article, to wit, a book entitled Lady Chatterley's Lover. 29 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,240 To this indictment it has pleaded not guilty and it is your charge 30 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:42,480 to say, having heard the evidence, whether it be guilty or not. 31 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:49,880 If Your Lordship pleases, I appear, with my learned friend Mr Morton, to prosecute in this case. 32 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:54,960 Members of the jury, it was learnt earlier this year that Penguin Books 33 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,680 proposed to publish this book, Lady Chatterley's Lover. 34 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:05,600 As a result of that, the company were seen by the police, and so it comes about 35 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:11,000 that you find yourselves in the jury box to give your judgement on Lady Chatterley's Lover. 36 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:15,880 I quote from the Obscene Publications Act of 1959. 37 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:20,800 "A book is to be deemed to be obscene if its effect, taken as a whole, 38 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:26,440 "is such as to tend to deprave and corrupt persons who are likely to read it." 39 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:33,560 So, does this book, might this book, deprave and corrupt anyone who might be likely to read it? 40 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:39,480 And my learned friend will doubtless argue that the book is not obscene, and that even if it were, 41 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:44,400 its literary merit would warrant its publication as being for the public good. 42 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,200 The prosecution will invite you to say that this book does tend 43 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,840 to introduce lustful thoughts in the minds of those who read it. 44 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:53,680 It goes further, you may think. 45 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,280 It sets upon a pedestal promiscuous and adulterous intercourse. 46 00:04:57,280 --> 00:05:03,240 It commends, indeed, it even sets out to commend sensuality almost as a virtue. 47 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:08,920 It encourages, and indeed advocates coarseness and vulgarity of thought and language. 48 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:14,600 You may think that it must tend to deprave the minds, certainly of some, and you may think of many 49 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:20,480 of those persons who are likely to purchase it at the price of three shillings and sixpence. 50 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,320 You may think that one of the ways in which you can test the book 51 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,880 is to ask yourselves, once you have read it, this question - 52 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,800 would you approve of your young sons, your young daughters - 53 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,120 because girls can read as well as boys - reading this book? 54 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:42,960 Is it a book that you would even wish your wife or servants to read? 55 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,400 LAUGHTER 56 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,880 Well, let us turn now to the book itself. 57 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,720 I'd actually read the book years ago, well, glanced through it. 58 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,400 Ray, my first husband, had picked a copy up in Paris. 59 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,240 To tell the truth, I wasn't really interested then, 60 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,120 not that interested in other people's sex lives. 61 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,760 I was too involved in our own, 62 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,760 Ray's and mine. Then. 63 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:19,160 It is, if I may summarise, the story of Lady Chatterley, 64 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,040 a young woman whose husband is wounded in the First World War, 65 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:28,960 paralysed from the waist downwards so that he is unable to have any sexual intercourse. 66 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:35,760 It describes how this woman, deprived of sex from her husband, satisfies her sexual desires - 67 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:40,280 a sex-starved girl - how she satisfies that starvation 68 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:45,600 with a particularly sensual man who happens to be her husband's gamekeeper. 69 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:52,040 There are, I think, 13 episodes of sexual intercourse described in the greatest detail. 70 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,320 The curtains are never drawn. 71 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,400 One follows them not only into the bedroom but into bed. 72 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,400 But that is not strictly accurate, members of the jury, 73 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,520 because one starts in my lady's boudoir, 74 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,080 then one goes to the floor of a hut in the forest, 75 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:12,240 then we see them again in the forest, in the undergrowth, in the pouring rain, 76 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,760 both of them stark naked and dripping with raindrops. 77 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:22,720 Then in the keeper's cottage, first in the evening on the hearthrug, then in the morning in bed. 78 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,560 And then we move to Bloomsbury and we have it all over again 79 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,640 in the attic of a Bloomsbury boarding house! 80 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:34,360 When you read these passages you may well think that sex is dragged in 81 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:39,360 at every conceivable opportunity and you may think that the story is little more than padding. 82 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:44,480 Hmm. Now we come to the language. 83 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,800 The book abounds in bawdy conversation. 84 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,800 These matters are not normally voiced in this court, 85 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:57,280 but when it forms the whole subject matter of the prosecution, then we cannot avoid voicing them. 86 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:03,760 The word fuck or fucking occurs no less than 30 times. 87 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,400 Cunt...14 times. 88 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:11,320 Balls...13 times. 89 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,720 Shit and arse, six times apiece. 90 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,720 Cock, four times. 91 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:21,320 Piss, three times. And...so on. 92 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:26,120 Lady Chatterley and the gamekeeper are, you may think, little more than bodies, 93 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,000 bodies which continuously have sexual intercourse with each other. 94 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,560 You will see, for example, on page seven... 95 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:37,640 My Lord, I object! The Act says the book must be judged as a whole. 96 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:42,960 To consider particular passages without having read the whole book would be to prejudge the issue. 97 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:49,440 It was not my intention to prejudice or inflame the jury's minds before they read the book. 98 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,040 No-one is suggesting that, Mr Griffith-Jones. 99 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:59,040 But the book is charged as a whole, and perhaps the better course is for the jury to read the book first, 100 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:04,480 before hearing evidence about the whole book or any particular passages in it. 101 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,600 As Your Lordship pleases. 102 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:12,720 Well, the question now, then, is the reading of the book, is it not? 103 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,480 How shall that be done? 104 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,480 Perhaps the jury should take the book home, my Lord? 105 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,320 I think not. 106 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,280 I think they should read it here. 107 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:27,880 I am sorry, members of the jury, I don't want to condemn you to any kind of discomfort, 108 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:32,000 but if you were to take the book home, there might be distractions. 109 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:37,000 You should read the book through in the jury room, taking as much time as you need. 110 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,000 I suppose it might take a day or two. 111 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,720 Then we will all come back here and proceed with the case. 112 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,680 All rise! 113 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,760 Help yourselves to copies and make yourselves comfortable. 114 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,600 The lunch break will be at 12.30. 115 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,240 This is a bit of all right. Beats working, eh? 116 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:01,640 There's to be no discussion until after you've completed your reading. 117 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:18,120 "Ours is essentially a tragic age, so we refuse to take it tragically. 118 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,240 "The cataclysm has happened..." 119 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,960 "This was Constance Chatterley's position. 120 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,360 "The war had brought the roof down over her head. 121 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,240 "She had married Clifford Chatterley when he was home on leave. 122 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,960 "They had a month's honeymoon, then he went back to Flanders 123 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,120 "to be shipped over to England again, six months later, more or less in bits..." 124 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:36,960 "He was not really downcast. 125 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:41,240 "He had a bath-chair with a small motor attachment..." 126 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,840 "I'm sorry we can't have a son, she said..." 127 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,480 "It would be almost a good thing if you had a child by another man..." 128 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,840 "This is the new gamekeeper, Mellors..." 129 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:55,000 "The keeper's cottage looked uninhabited, it was so silent and alone. 130 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,000 "She went round the side of the house, turned the corner and stopped. 131 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:06,280 "In the little yard, two paces beyond her, the man was washing himself, utterly unaware. 132 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:12,480 "He was naked to the hips, his velveteen breeches slipping down over his slender loins..." 133 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:32,240 I didn't know where to look, when he was saying those words. 134 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,920 Some people thought it was funny. I did laugh, I couldn't help it. 135 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:40,720 It was just, I dunno, I'd never heard anyone say words like that in a posh voice. 136 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:46,200 It was the absurdity of it. Yeah. Exactly. The place for words like that is the gutter, not in court. 137 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,920 I don't see why he felt he had to say them out loud, we all know what they all are, after all. 138 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:52,720 I call it rank bad taste. 139 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,720 I suppose he felt he was doing his duty, like. 140 00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:00,640 I think he was enjoying himself no end. Like a little boy saying, "Pee-po belly bum drawers"! 141 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,920 So what do we all think of the book so far? 142 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,120 We're not supposed to discuss it until we've finished it. 143 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,200 Come on, of course they know we're going to talk about it. 144 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,880 Well, she certainly puts herself about a bit, don't she? Lady C. 145 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:24,040 Two Germans, that Michaels bloke, and we haven't even got to the gamekeeper yet. 146 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,880 Is that what the aristocracy's like? In my experience, yes. 147 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,640 I suppose they've got the leisure time for it. Exactly. 148 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,760 What do you think of it? 149 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,760 I'm rather enjoying it, so far. 150 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,320 Although he does make an awful song and dance about it. 151 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,520 It's only sex, after all, isn't it? 152 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,240 "One evening she escaped after tea. 153 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:57,480 "It was late, and she fled across the park like one who fears to be called back. 154 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:03,400 " 'I'd love to see the chicks!' she said, panting, glancing shyly at the keeper, almost unaware of him." 155 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,400 "The man standing above her laughed, and crouched down, 156 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,840 "and put his hand with quiet confidence slowly into the coop. 157 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,920 "And slowly, softly, with sure, gentle fingers, 158 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:20,400 "he felt among the bird's feathers and drew out a faintly-peeping chick in his closed hand..." 159 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,080 "She took the drab little thing between her hands, 160 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,560 "and there it stood, on its impossible little stalks of legs, 161 00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:30,800 "its atom of life trembling through its almost weightless feet into Connie's hands..." 162 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,200 "Suddenly he saw a tear fall on her wrist. 163 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,840 "Her face was averted, and she was crying blindly. 164 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:42,360 "His heart melted suddenly, and he put out his hand and laid his fingers on her knee. 165 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,360 " 'You shouldn't cry,' he said softly. 166 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:53,080 "He laid his hand on her shoulder, and softly, gently, it began to travel down the curve of her back, 167 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:59,040 "blindly, with a blind stroking motion, to the curve of her loins, 168 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,960 "and there his hand, softly, softly, stroked the curve of her flank, 169 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,680 "in the blind instinctive caress." 170 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,680 Funny old way to spend a day. Yeah, I'll say. 171 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:17,520 Better than work, though. 172 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,320 I'm Helena, by the way. Keith. 173 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,360 Pleased to meet you, Keith. 174 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,120 So, what's the work you're not doing today? Invoice clerk. 175 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:28,640 For a wholesale grocers. 176 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,320 Don't you like it? I hate it. 177 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,800 Same thing over and over again - adding up, adding up, adding up, 178 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,840 then the supervisor checks 'em all on an adding machine. It's all pointless. 179 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,000 They'll replace us all with machines. 180 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,720 I can't wait. What'll you do then? 181 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,840 Dunno. 182 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,400 Maybe I'll retrain as a gamekeeper! 183 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,760 Well, it does sound like rather a good job. 184 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,160 Are you married, Keith? 185 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,920 I am, as it happens, yeah. Are you? 186 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:03,000 Yes and no. In the process of divorcing, just waiting for my papers to come through. 187 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,360 Oh, right. My life's in a sort of limbo at the moment. 188 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:12,800 No proper home. I'm living in a little flat over a shop, just round the corner actually. Oh, yeah? 189 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:14,560 I, er, I turn off here. 190 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,200 Are you in a hurry, Keith? 191 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:24,480 No, not especially. There's something I'd like to show you...something I saw this morning. 192 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,280 It's just down here. 193 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:28,760 All right, then. 194 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,320 Look. Chicks. 195 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,480 Open your hands. 196 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,120 Don't you like it? I dunno. 197 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,880 I don't wanna hurt it. You won't hurt it. 198 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:01,480 There. 199 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,520 Look, what is this? 200 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:13,240 You know what it is. Look, I'd better get going. 201 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,920 I thought we might have a cup of tea. You haven't got time? 202 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,440 No, I think I'd...you know, 203 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,440 better get going. OK, then. 204 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,880 See you in court tomorrow. Yeah. 205 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,400 See you tomorrow. 206 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,200 So what was it like, then? 207 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,280 It was all right. Did you get your dinner? Yeah. 208 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,040 What was it like? It was all right. Not bad. 209 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,200 So did you get on a case? Yeah. Was it a murder? 210 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:02,920 No, nothing like that. 211 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,400 What, then? 212 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,920 We're not supposed to discuss it. Come on, you can tell me. 213 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,520 It's about a book. Lady Chatterley's Lover. 214 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,640 We've got to read it and decide if it should be banned. 215 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,880 That's supposed to be the most disgusting book out! 216 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:22,760 And you're reading it! Yeah. 217 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,480 The judge won't let the case start till we've read it. 218 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:29,160 So I've been hard at work all day, you've been reading a dirty book! 219 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,440 Yeah, that's right. 220 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,040 What's it like? 221 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,600 It's all right. 222 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,000 I like it, as it happens. Dirty bugger. 223 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,040 What? 224 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,320 What's the matter? I dunno. Nothing. 225 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,040 You know what it is. 226 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:35,000 "He held her fast and she felt his urgency... 227 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,280 "She saw his eyes, tense and brilliant, fierce, not loving... 228 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:40,960 "But her will had left her... 229 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,280 "For a moment he was still inside her, turgid there and quivering. 230 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,680 "Then as he began to move, in the sudden, helpless orgasm, 231 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,360 "there awoke in her new strange thrills rippling inside her. 232 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:56,640 "Rippling, rippling, rippling, 233 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:02,440 "like a flapping overlapping of soft flames, soft as feathers, 234 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:07,400 "running to points of brilliance, exquisite, exquisite, 235 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,320 "and melting her all molten inside... 236 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:14,000 "And as it subsided, he subsided too and lay utterly still, unknowing, 237 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,920 "while her grip on him slowly relaxed, and she lay inert. 238 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,560 "And they lay, and knew nothing, not even of each other, both lost. 239 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,040 " 'It's good when it's like that,' he said. 240 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:27,160 " 'Most folks live their whole life through and they never know it.' " 241 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,360 I thought I'd missed you. 242 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:50,920 Well, now you've caught me. 243 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,680 We could have that cup of tea today if you wanted to. 244 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,960 Sure you're not wanted at home? 245 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,960 No, Sylvia doesn't get home from work till half-past-six. 246 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:04,880 OK, then. 247 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,400 Now what? 248 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,240 'Members of the jury,' 249 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:53,040 you have heard from my learned friend the nature of the case for the prosecution. 250 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,960 He has told you in general terms what the book is about, 251 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:04,680 he has told you that it is full of repeated descriptions of sexual intercourse, and so it is. 252 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,320 He has told you it contains many four-letter words, and so it does. 253 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,360 Sorry, too many things. 254 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:17,120 You may be asking yourselves, why should any publisher want to publish such a book? 255 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:23,160 Well, Allen Lane, Sir Allen Lane as he is now, 256 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,320 founded Penguin Books 257 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:30,840 so that ordinary people could buy all the great books in our literature 258 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,920 at a reasonable cost. 259 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,240 The whole of Shakespeare, 260 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,680 the whole of Shaw, and now the whole of Lawrence. 261 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:46,160 Few people will disagree that Lawrence is one of the greatest writers of this century, 262 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,640 and Lady Chatterley's Lover is an essential novel 263 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:55,160 if we are to properly understand what Lawrence had to say, 264 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,680 and to properly understand Lady Chatterley's Lover, 265 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,320 we must be able to read it... 266 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:06,920 unexpurgated - to read the book Lawrence actually wrote. 267 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,880 It is a book about England, 268 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,560 about our society. 269 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:18,720 Lawrence wanted to say something about our society in this book. 270 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:24,080 He thought the ills in our society would not be cured by political action, 271 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:30,400 that the remedy lay in the restoration of right relations between human beings, 272 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,520 particularly in the union, 273 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,240 the physical union, 274 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,400 between man and woman. 275 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,160 Are you all right, Keith? 276 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,640 Not regretting it, I hope? No. 277 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,640 I'm just... 278 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,240 I've never done anything like this before. 279 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,320 Oh, dear. 280 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,440 Have I corrupted you? No. 281 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:23,680 I didn't mean that. 282 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,360 I thought about doing it with you, 283 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:31,360 yesterday and today. Did you? 284 00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:33,560 Of course I did. Couldn't you tell? 285 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,560 I thought it was just me. Oh, no. 286 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,560 I've never met anyone like you before. 287 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,360 You don't know me yet, Keith. 288 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:44,880 Yeah, I do. 289 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,760 In one way, I do. 290 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,840 Yes. 291 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,320 Yes, you do. 292 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,520 Could I see you? 293 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,040 All of you? 294 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,360 Yes, of course. 295 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:10,400 You could have before, it was just we seemed to be in rather a hurry. 296 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,600 Help me. 297 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,800 Now I feel shy. 298 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,240 Now you. 299 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,400 You're beautiful. 300 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,240 DOOR SLAMS 301 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,320 Keith? In here! 302 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,200 What you doing in there with the door locked? Nothing. 303 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,080 Just having a wash. Having a wash? What's that all about? 304 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,480 Just felt like it. It's stuffy in that jury room. 305 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,640 Stuffy, sweaty. Everyone smoking. 306 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,720 And reading that dirty book. You feel dirty. 307 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,760 You've got very particular. I've always been particular. 308 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,520 I'm not complaining. Kiss? 309 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,760 # Old Keith Gray, he's a funny 'un Got a face like a pickled onion 310 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,040 # Got a nose like a squashed tomato and legs like matchsticks! # 311 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,520 Oi! 312 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,440 You do smell lovely and clean. 313 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,640 I'm doing your favourite tonight. Yeah? 314 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,920 'I call Sir Allen Lane.' 315 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:13,360 Sir Allen, when you founded Penguin Books, what was the idea you had in mind? 316 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:18,520 My idea was to produce a book which would sell for the price of ten cigarettes, 317 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,200 For people like myself, who left school at 16 or earlier, 318 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,040 my idea was it would be another form of education. 319 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,440 And what about this particular book? 320 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,440 We wanted to round off our DH Lawrence collection. 321 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,400 Very important writer, very important book. 322 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,240 I felt it had to be done. 323 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,120 Did you consider publishing an expurgated version? 324 00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:42,160 No. All our books are published as the author wrote them. 325 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,960 I wouldn't consider doing it any other way. Thank you, Sir Allen. 326 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,960 Sir Allen, I have read a newspaper report, in the Manchester Guardian, 327 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,280 in which you expressed an opinion that Lady Chatterley's Lover is no great novel. 328 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,040 Was that your view? 329 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,280 No, it was not. As I said, I think it is a very important novel. 330 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,720 And you don't recall ever expressing any other view? 331 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,320 No, I do not. 332 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,840 I do remember saying I might go to prison for publishing it, 333 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,760 and I am prepared to go to prison if the case goes against us, 334 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,240 because I am sure it is quite right to publish it. 335 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,920 No further questions. 336 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,800 My Lord, I want to make clear that calling witnesses 337 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:34,120 to the literary merit of this book is not in any sense an admission that the book is obscene. 338 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:36,240 That is understood. 339 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,280 I call Mr Graham Hough. 340 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:49,800 You are lecturer in English and Fellow of Christ's College, Cambridge? 341 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,720 And you are the author of The Dark Sun, a study of DH Lawrence? 342 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,320 That's right. Will you tell us something of Lawrence's place in English literature? 343 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,800 He's the most important novelist of this century and one of the greatest novelists of any century. 344 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,640 I don't think that's disputed. And where would you place this book? 345 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,560 I don't think it's the best of his novels, nor the least good, either. 346 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,400 It has been said by my learned friend that, "Sex is dragged in 347 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,040 "at every opportunity, and that the plot is little more than padding." 348 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,880 If that were true, would it be a serious criticism of the book? 349 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,440 If it were true, it would be, but in my view it's utterly false. 350 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:30,840 The sexual passages may be the heart of the book, but they only occupy some 30 pages in a book of 300. 351 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,440 The book is about much more than a series of sexual acts. 352 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,400 What about the four-letter words? 353 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:41,720 In Lawrence's view there is no proper language to speak of sexual matters. He is trying to redeem 354 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,760 the traditional words, now considered obscene, and to use them in an entirely serious context. 355 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:52,520 I don't think he is successful, but that's what Lawrence was trying to do. Thank you. 356 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:57,800 You have told us, Mr Hough, that this is not Lawrence's best book. 357 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,080 Do you know of the writer Katherine Anne Porter? 358 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,120 She's a distinguished American short-story writer. 359 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,760 Just so. This is what she wrote about Lady Chatterley's Lover. 360 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:15,360 "A dreary, sad performance, with some passages of unintentional hilarious low comedy, 361 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:21,840 "one scene at least simply beyond belief in a book written with such inflamed apostolic solemnity." 362 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,120 What do you think of that judgement? Obviously, I disagree with it. 363 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,600 She goes on to say, "This is the fevered daydream of a dying man, 364 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:36,520 "sitting under his umbrella pines in Italy, indulging his sexual fantasies." 365 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:41,520 Might this not be, in fact, the fevered daydream of a dying man? 366 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,760 Lawrence wasn't dying when he wrote this book. He died some two years later. 367 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,040 He was ill when he wrote the book. 368 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,000 Thank you. 369 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,600 Now, would you agree that a good book by a good writer, 370 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,200 generally speaking, should not repeat things again and again? 371 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,200 It's a tiresome habit, is it not? 372 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:05,520 Not necessarily. Repetition can be used to great literary and emotional effect. 373 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,720 There is a great deal of it in the Bible. 374 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:12,040 I am talking about this book at the moment. Have you a copy of it? Yes. 375 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,920 Could you look at page 177? 376 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,080 I will read it to you, if the court will forgive 377 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,720 my miserable attempt to pronounce the local dialect. 378 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,200 " 'Th'art good cunt, though, aren't ter? 379 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:31,040 " 'Best bit o' cunt left on earth. When ter likes! When tha'rt willin!' 380 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,440 " 'What is cunt?' she said. 381 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,200 " 'An' doesn't ter know? Cunt!' # 382 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,120 I need not go on reading. Just glance down the page. 383 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:45,920 Cunt appears, fuck appears, cunt appears, fuck appears, all in the space of about 12 lines. 384 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,360 Is that a realistic conversation, even between the gamekeeper and the baronet's wife? 385 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,480 Is this a good piece of writing? 386 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,960 I don't think it's successful, but I can see what he's trying to do. 387 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,760 I am not asking you what he is trying to do! Is it a good piece of writing? 388 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,520 Er, well, I think it's a failure. 389 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,000 You agree with me in this, that in this book of such high merit, 390 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,480 there is at least one passage of very low merit? 391 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,560 Yes... Thank you, Mr Hough. 392 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,000 Well, he made mincemeat out of him. 393 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,800 Mr Hough did seem to be on the defensive, rather. 394 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,440 He left him in tatters, no contest. 395 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,120 I think he should have stood up for that passage. 396 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,120 It's a playful sort of conversation, 397 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,720 between two lovers who know each other very well? 398 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:35,080 He's teasing her, making a thing about the class difference, and she's playing up to it. 399 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:42,880 When she says, "What is...?" You know - she's playing a game. Of course she knows what it is, really. 400 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,480 But a lady would never say that word. I think she might. 401 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,080 It's the middle classes that are prudish about four-letter words. 402 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,840 The aristocracy use them just as freely as the lower classes. There you are. 403 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,160 Well, I don't like having my nose rubbed in it. 404 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,240 What a curious thing to say. 405 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,200 It's only a book, after all. 406 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,200 Books can't harm you, can they? 407 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,520 I think that's what we're here to decide. 408 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,560 About this particular book, I mean. 409 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,800 Yes, I suppose we are. 410 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:19,080 Miss Gardner, you are Reader in Renaissance Literature at Oxford University. 411 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,080 What do you think of DH Lawrence? 412 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,800 He is one of the greatest writers of the 20th century. 413 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,680 You are not, I think, an admirer of this particular book? 414 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,640 I think it's a remarkable book. 415 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,840 I don't think it's a wholly successful novel, 416 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,400 although I think certain passages are amongst the greatest things that he ever wrote. 417 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:43,840 It has been said in court that the four-letter words form the whole subject matter for the prosecution, 418 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,440 and that the words fuck or fucking occur not less than 30 times. 419 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:56,120 Now, what, in your view, is the relation of the four-letter words in this book to its literary merit? 420 00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:01,200 I don't think any words are disgusting or obscene in themselves. 421 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:06,920 It depends on the context, and I would say that by the end of the book Lawrence goes very far 422 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:12,760 to redeem this word and make one feel that it is the only word that the character could use. 423 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:18,840 By the time one gets to the last page, one feels that this word has taken on a great depth of meaning. 424 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,680 You said that certain passages are some of the greatest things that Lawrence wrote. 425 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,960 Which passages did you have in mind? 426 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,680 Some of the passages which describe the sexual act 427 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:36,080 and some of the passages in which the characters talk about sexual relations between men and women. 428 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,360 Including four-letter words? 429 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:46,120 Yes. I think Lawrence succeeds, far beyond expectation, in communicating an experience of great importance 430 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:53,160 and great value, which very few other writers have really attempted with such courage and devotion. 431 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,160 Thank you. 432 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,280 Mr Griffith-Jones? 433 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:09,800 No questions, Your Honour. 434 00:34:11,720 --> 00:34:17,120 So...she liked the dirty bits best! 435 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,080 Miss Helen Gardner, eh? Wonder what she knows about it! 436 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:26,440 Must be more to her than meets the eye! Your friend Mr Griffith-Jones was rendered speechless. 437 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,400 Well, I'm not surprised, old bird like that sticking up for the dirty bits. 438 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,440 They're not dirty bits. 439 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,480 Oh, I beg your pardon. What would you call them, then? 440 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,280 I can't remember how she put it. 441 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:42,720 She said those passages communicate an experience of great importance, 442 00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:45,480 and very few writers have even attempted it. 443 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,000 And what's the point of that? 444 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,080 We all know...what it's like. 445 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:56,320 What's the point in going on about it, except to get people feeling fruity. Excuse me. 446 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,000 I call 'em dirty bits cos that's what they are. 447 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,960 Sex doesn't have to be dirty. Oh, pardon me, Vicar! 448 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,040 That's the whole thing what he's on about in the book. I stand corrected! 449 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,120 D'you fancy a breath of fresh air? 450 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:13,760 All right. 451 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,480 Well. 452 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,680 Horrible man. 453 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,360 I liked it, when you told him off. 454 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,040 I didn't have the words to do it properly. 455 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,280 I felt like smacking him one on the nose. 456 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,600 I think people knew what you meant. 457 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,840 She was good, that woman. 458 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,680 Miss Helen Gardner. It was brave of her. 459 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:52,160 Of course people are going to say, "What does she know about it, an old spinster like that?" 460 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,000 Yeah. I thought that too. 461 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,440 I liked what you said. 462 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:02,120 Were you thinking about you and me? Yeah. 463 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:05,960 And them in the book. 464 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:15,000 The first time me and you talked, and you said, "It's only just sex, isn't it?" 465 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,160 I thought that sounded so sophisticated. 466 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:18,680 I was just trying to be smart. 467 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,240 Cos it's never only sex, though, is it? I mean, 468 00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:25,240 it's not really something you can say "it's only" about. 469 00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:27,360 There's always more to it than that. 470 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,360 It shakes you up. 471 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,920 Turns you inside out...sometimes. 472 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,960 Yes. 473 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,320 Mrs Bennett, you're a Fellow of Girton College, 474 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,320 you teach young people, you have children of your own. 475 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,360 What view do you think this book puts forward about marriage? 476 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,440 That it should be a complete relationship, including the physical. 477 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,640 And that one party in the marriage can go off and have affairs? 478 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,400 Lawrence believed that if it was a complete sham, then the marriage vows could be broken. 479 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,400 Oh, I see. 480 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:27,320 But in fact he shows the woman breaking her marriage vows without any compunction at all, 481 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,320 without even telling her husband. 482 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,120 And isn't that indeed what Lawrence himself did? 483 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,000 He ran off with his friend's wife, didn't he? Yes, he did, but... 484 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,480 And it's just this type of behaviour that's depicted in this book? 485 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,080 A woman is shown... A man running off with another man's wife! 486 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,000 The whole book is about that subject, is it not? Adultery! 487 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:52,080 Infidelity! Without a hint that there might be something wrong in the act of adultery. 488 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:57,400 Without a hint that there might be something dishonest, something cruel about infidelity. 489 00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,480 If you put it like that... Thank you. 490 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:07,640 Mrs Bennett, it is clear from the book that the husband told her to go and have a child by another man. 491 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,640 Yes. 492 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:14,560 And I would like to add, respecting Lawrence's own conduct, 493 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,040 that his own marriage lasted the whole of his life. 494 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,480 What's the matter? 495 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,400 Nothing. I thought you liked rissoles. 496 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,760 I do like rissoles. I was just thinking. 497 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,840 Thinking what? Nah... No, go on. 498 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,960 I like to know what thoughts are going on in the great brain. 499 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,680 I haven't got a great brain. 500 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,720 Sometimes I think I haven't got a brain at all. 501 00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:52,520 Well, that proves it, doesn't it, thinking that? 502 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,720 That's a deep thought. 503 00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:59,880 I don't think thoughts like that. I just think thoughts like, "What are we going to have for supper?" 504 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:05,520 What were you thinking about? I was thinking...you know, DH Lawrence? 505 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,560 He ran off with his friend's wife. 506 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,000 I'm not surprised, what I've heard about him. 507 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,840 They got married, and they stayed married till he died. 508 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,680 I'm glad to hear it. 509 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,880 'Call the Bishop of Woolwich.' 510 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:29,840 Bishop, what, if any, would you say, are the moral or ethical values of this book? 511 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,480 Lawrence didn't have a Christian view of sex, 512 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,880 and the sexual relationship depicted in the book is not one that I would regard as ideal, 513 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:43,160 but what I think Lawrence is trying to do is to portray the sex act as something essentially sacred. 514 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,240 Archbishop William Temple once... 515 00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:49,240 Just a moment, Bishop, I just want to get this right. 516 00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:52,240 He was trying to portray the sex relation...? 517 00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:57,560 As something essentially sacred. Yes, I thought that was it. 518 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:03,600 Go on. I was about to quote Archbishop William Temple. 519 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,240 He once said that Christians didn't make jokes about sex 520 00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:11,200 for the same reason as they didn't make jokes about Holy Communion - 521 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,840 not that it is sordid, but because it is sacred. 522 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,440 And I think that is how Lawrence saw it. 523 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,400 I see. 524 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:26,800 It has been suggested that Lawrence places upon a pedestal promiscuous and adulterous intercourse. 525 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,000 That seems a distorted way of looking at it. 526 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:35,160 If the jury read the last two pages, for example, there is a most moving advocacy of chastity, 527 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:41,000 and I think the effect of the book as a whole is against, rather than for, promiscuity. 528 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:50,720 Bishop, are you asking the jury to accept that this book is a valuable work on ethics? 529 00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:57,560 It doesn't set out to be a work on ethics, but it does have ethical values. 530 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,560 Is it, in your view, a book which Christians ought to read? 531 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,320 Yes, I think it is. 532 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:11,480 No further questions. 533 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,880 Well, I don't call him much of a bishop. 534 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,200 Never heard anything like it in my life. 535 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:28,200 The man's obviously some cranky fellow-travelling toady to the intelligentsia. 536 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,400 I don't know where they found him. 537 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,680 There must be at least two dozen bishops who wouldn't give that book house-room. 538 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:39,360 I don't mind telling you, I'm getting sick of it, this parade of know-alls who, 539 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:45,360 one after another tie themselves in knots trying to tell us that what is obviously a dirty book 540 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,640 is something every boy and girl should read. 541 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:02,760 What are you thinking? 542 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:06,360 I dunno. 543 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,280 I think maybe we should stop doing this. 544 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,920 You're not tired of me already? 545 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,680 No. 546 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,320 Christ, no. 547 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,320 But, you know - Sylvia. I don't want to hurt her. 548 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,040 You don't have to. 549 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,000 What she doesn't know can't hurt her, can it? Suppose not. 550 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,480 What's she like - Sylvia? 551 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,320 I've known her so long, it's hard for me to say. 552 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,040 She's pretty. 553 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:45,360 Year younger than me. We were going out together when she was 14 and I was 15. Childhood sweethearts. 554 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,160 Yeah, if you like. 555 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,320 D'you have good sex with her? 556 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,320 Yeah. You know, it's all right. 557 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,360 You don't have to answer me, it's none of my business. 558 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,000 Yeah...it's fine, but, you know, 559 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,800 I think we had our best moments a long time ago, maybe even before we did it properly. 560 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,480 It was so exciting, getting to know each other, 561 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,200 all that wrestling, getting to first base, second base, third base. 562 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:12,960 She made me struggle for it, 563 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:19,640 but it was like, I dunno, discovering hidden treasure, all bit by bit, each bit better than the last bit. 564 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,680 All that went on for months, years. 565 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,560 It sounds nice. 566 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,560 An old-fashioned courtship. Yeah. 567 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,600 Yeah, it was, I suppose. 568 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,840 Not like him and her in the book. Or you and me. No. 569 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,120 What about you? What was he like, your husband? 570 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:41,760 Ray? I suppose you'd have to call him a charming bastard. 571 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:47,200 He was married to someone else when I met him. Couldn't resist him. 572 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,760 He was very good at all that, very good at sex as well. 573 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,720 Not very good at paying the bills, not very good at telling the truth. 574 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,760 I had a lot of fun with him. 575 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,960 Actually, I adored him. 576 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,680 It took me years to realise he was a cold-hearted bastard 577 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,080 who didn't really give a damn about anyone but himself. 578 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,240 Thank God we never had a child. 579 00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:13,080 Did he go with other women? 580 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:14,920 I should say so. 581 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,200 Mind you, I had affairs too. 582 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,840 He didn't mind, because he didn't care. 583 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,680 I pretended to be happy, even to myself, I think. 584 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:26,760 And then I stopped pretending. 585 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:29,880 So you're not happy? 586 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,320 Oh, I've got nothing to complain about. 587 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,120 I'm over him now. Much better off without him. 588 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,160 I don't even hate him any more. 589 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:49,440 Am I the first since you split up with him? No. 590 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,960 The best, though. 591 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,960 We're not going to stop this, are we? Not yet, anyway? 592 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,520 No. 593 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,280 I don't think I could. 594 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,080 Nor me. 595 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,320 Call Richard Hoggart. 596 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,320 Mr Hoggart, would you tell us a little about yourself? 597 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,320 I was born into the working class, in Leeds. 598 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,920 I went to the local elementary school, and won a scholarship togrammar school, 599 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,720 and then went on to university where I took an English degree. 600 00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:49,040 A background rather like Lawrence's own, then. 601 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:53,040 Lawrence didn't go to university, he went to a teacher's training college. 602 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:58,120 And perhaps there's something particular about a Nottinghamshire mining village upbringing. 603 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:02,400 We're not all the same, us working class lads, you know. No, indeed. 604 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,360 And you are now a Senior Lecturer in English at Leicester University, 605 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:10,760 and you lecture on Lawrence to the young people under your care. Yes, I do. 606 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:15,320 This book, Lady Chatterley's Lover, has been described in Court 607 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:20,560 as little more than vicious indulgence in sex and sensuality. 608 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,640 Is that a valid description of the book? 609 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,720 Not at all. It is not vicious. 610 00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:28,480 It is highly virtuous, and if anything puritanical. 611 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,800 Did you say... 612 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,880 virtuous and puritanical? Yes, sir. 613 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,160 I believe it's a very moral book. 614 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:41,800 In fact, you could say that the physical, sexual side is not that important to Lawrence. 615 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,480 I know that sounds paradoxical. 616 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:48,720 What Lawrence is interested in is a relationship which is, in the deepest sense, spiritual. 617 00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:50,640 It's a kind of sacrament for him. 618 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:55,240 So what exactly do you mean by saying that this is a moral book? 619 00:46:55,240 --> 00:47:00,280 I mean that the overwhelming impression I get, as a careful reader, 620 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:06,760 is of the enormous reverence which must be paid by one human being to another in a physical relationship. 621 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,240 These relationships are not matters in which we use each other like animals. 622 00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:14,800 This spirit seems to me to pervade the book throughout, 623 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:19,480 and so I would call the book highly moral and not at all degrading of sex. 624 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,400 And the four-letter words have been referred to. What is your view on them? 625 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:29,400 They are part of the normal discourse of many people, and not only working class people. 626 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,360 They are used very freely indeed in everyday life. 627 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:38,240 50 yards from the court this morning I heard a man say "fuck" three times as he passed me. 628 00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:41,640 He said, "Fuck it, fuck it, fuck it!" as he went past. 629 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:46,440 If you have worked on a building site, as I have, you will hear it over and over again. 630 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,320 The word is used in contempt, of course, as a term of abuse. 631 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:54,680 Lawrence wanted to re-establish its proper use. Which is? 632 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,600 As the word for the sexual act. 633 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:02,560 We have no word in English for it that isn't either a long abstraction, 634 00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:09,720 or a euphemism, and we're constantly running away from it, or dissolving into dots, in a passage like this. 635 00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:12,400 Lawrence wanted us to say, "This is what one does." 636 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:17,600 In a simple, ordinary way, one fucks - with no sniggering or dirt. 637 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,200 One fucks. 638 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:30,440 I wonder, Mr Hoggart, do you belong to that body of people who oppose all prosecutions for obscenity? 639 00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:36,520 Not at all. But I do resent the fact that ordinary men and women should be prevented 640 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:40,960 from reading a serious book by a great writer who has something of importance to say. 641 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,640 I see. 642 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:49,160 Now, you described this book as "highly virtuous, if not puritanical". 643 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:53,880 That is your genuine and considered view, is it? Yes, it is. 644 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:59,520 Well, perhaps I've spent my whole life under a misapprehension of the meaning of the word "puritanical". 645 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,080 Can you enlighten me? 646 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,440 Yes. Many people live their lives under the same misapprehension. 647 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,680 This is the way that language decays. 648 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:14,480 Today, the word has been extended to mean someone who's against anything pleasurable, particularly sex. 649 00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:19,440 Its true meaning is somebody who belongs to the tradition of British Puritanism, 650 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:25,600 and the defining feature of that is an intense sense of responsibility for one's conscience. 651 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,120 In this sense, the book is puritanical. 652 00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,720 I am obliged to you for that lecture. 653 00:49:31,720 --> 00:49:33,640 In fact, one could say... JUDGE MOANS 654 00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,280 Mr Hoggart, I don't want to stop you if you have something further to say, 655 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:42,960 but the question I want to ask you is quite a simple one to answer without another lecture. 656 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,880 We are not at Leicester University at the moment. 657 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:52,240 Now I want to see more precisely what you describe as "puritanical". 658 00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:56,440 Would you look at page 222 of the book? 659 00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:02,240 Lady Chatterley is drying her hair in front of the fire, after one of their bouts, 660 00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:05,440 when he took her, and I quote, "like an animal. 661 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,480 "He stroked her tail with his hand, 662 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:13,680 "long and subtly taking in the curves and the globefulness. 663 00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,520 " 'Tha's got such a nice tail on thee. 664 00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,480 " 'It's the nicest, nicest woman's arse as is. 665 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,800 " 'An' ivery bit of it is woman, woman, sure as nuts. 666 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:29,440 " 'Thart not one of them button arsed lasses as should be lads, are ter! 667 00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:34,960 " 'Tha's got a real soft sloping bottom on thee, as a man loves in 'is guts.' " 668 00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:39,080 Is that a passage you would describe as "puritanical"? 669 00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:42,160 Yes, puritanical, and poignant, and tender. 670 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,520 "All the while he spoke he exquisitely stroked the rounded tail, 671 00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:51,600 "till it seemed as if a slippery sort of fire came from it into his hand. 672 00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:57,160 "And his fingertips touched the two secret openings to her body, 673 00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:03,080 "time after time, with a soft little brush of fire." Is that puritanical? 674 00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:04,800 Yes, indeed it is. 675 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:09,680 I see. " 'An' if tha shits an' if tha pisses, I'm glad. 676 00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:16,040 " 'I don't want a woman as couldna shit nor piss.' " Is that puritanical? Yes, it is. 677 00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:20,680 " 'Here tha shits and here tha pisses an' I lay my hand on 'em both and I like thee for it. 678 00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:24,760 " 'I like thee for it. Tha's got a proper woman's arse, proud of itself. 679 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,560 " 'It's none ashamed of itself, this isna." 680 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:34,240 "He laid his hand close and firm over her secret places, in a kind of close greeting." 681 00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:36,960 And that is puritanical, is it? 682 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:41,920 In my view, it is puritanical, and poignant, and tender. 683 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,360 Do you feel puritanical? 684 00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:57,800 Not really. Tell you the truth, I didn't have the faintest idea what he was talking about, that man. 685 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,360 He was saying that sex is like a sacrament, or it was for Lawrence 686 00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,360 and for Mellors and Lady Chatterley. 687 00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,520 What's that got to do with Lawrence? 688 00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,560 That Bishop said that Lawrence wasn't even a Christian. 689 00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,120 I think he worshipped his penis. I think most men do, actually. 690 00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,240 The stuff you come out with. 691 00:52:13,240 --> 00:52:16,560 Well, it's true, isn't it? I don't worship my...penis. 692 00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,000 No, but you follow it where it leads, don't you? 693 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:21,720 Is that what happened with me and you? 694 00:52:21,720 --> 00:52:23,360 Isn't it? 695 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,040 Look, it's stirring, I think it overheard us. 696 00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,520 John Thomas. 697 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:33,600 That chap was wrong, wasn't he? 698 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,400 Lawrence wasn't all for plain speaking, not altogether. 699 00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:40,960 Mellors has a pet name for it - his penis is John Thomas and her vagina's Lady Jane. 700 00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:47,880 When he's weaves flowers through her pubic hair, and she winds creeping Jenny round his penis. 701 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,840 Would you like me to do that for you? 702 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,600 If you like. 703 00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:56,960 I think we should try out everything they try out, don't you? All right. 704 00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:58,640 Not many forests round here, though. 705 00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,200 We'll have to improvise. 706 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,600 Meanwhile... 707 00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,840 D'you like this? 708 00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:16,280 Yeah. 709 00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:22,120 Sylvia won't do anything like this. She says it's dirty. 710 00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:23,720 Poor Sylvia. 711 00:53:23,720 --> 00:53:25,920 I'll have to write her a little note, 712 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:27,680 tell her what she's missing. 713 00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,200 PANTING 714 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:44,160 I wish... 715 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:45,840 What? 716 00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,520 It could be just you and me. 717 00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:50,840 That's what he said in the book. 718 00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,960 But the world's so full of other people. 719 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:07,160 Old Parker was in a right mood today. Was he? 720 00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,280 Yeah. Taking it out on everyone. 721 00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,800 Just because he's the boss, he thinks he can carry on like a two year old in a tantrum. 722 00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,280 Nasty old bugger. Yeah. What can you do, though? 723 00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,000 I tell you what I do. 724 00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,240 I look at the clock, and I think, in two hours' time, or whatever it is, 725 00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:27,040 I'll be home, with somebody who's so much nicer than you, you old bugger. 726 00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:31,200 Well, look at you. I was only paying you a compliment! 727 00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:56,880 Well, who'd have thought it? What? 728 00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:58,840 You and I together in bed, like this. 729 00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:00,680 And all thanks to DH Lawrence. 730 00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:05,400 Actually, I've decided I'm not that keen on DH Lawrence or his gamekeeper. 731 00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,960 Why's that, then? He's always telling her things, going on at her. 732 00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,760 This is how life ought to be, this is what's wrong with women, 733 00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:13,640 this is what I like and don't like. 734 00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,280 And when they make love, it's always him in charge. 735 00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:20,960 I thought that's what you all like. Well, you're wrong. Anyway, you're not like that. 736 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,200 I might be, given the chance. 737 00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,120 I don't think so. And you've got a sense of humour. 738 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,480 When you really think about it, it's not a great book at all, 739 00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,440 it's a lot of preaching and bullying and wishful thinking. 740 00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:36,440 It got you going, though. Yes, I know, and I'm so ashamed. 741 00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,440 Anyway, it wasn't the book that got me going, 742 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,520 it was you, with your bedroom eyes. 743 00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,160 I'd never have thought those wicked thoughts about any of those other men. 744 00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:51,200 What's so special about me? 745 00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,800 Oh, now he's fishing for compliments! 746 00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,880 But I'll tell you. It's your innocence. I'm not that innocent. 747 00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,600 Yes, you are, you're innocent, like an animal. 748 00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,600 There's no guile about you. 749 00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,720 And from the first look, I could tell you really want it, 750 00:56:07,720 --> 00:56:09,960 all of it. 751 00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,720 I don't think most men do, 752 00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:14,960 they just pretend they do, 753 00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,360 or they really want something else - 754 00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:19,000 power usually... 755 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,360 to get you where they want you. 756 00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,800 So I'm different, am I? 757 00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:25,320 Yes, you are. 758 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,600 You make me happy. 759 00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:39,160 I call Mr Francis Cammaerts. 760 00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:42,760 Call Mr John Connell. 761 00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,400 Miss Sarah Beryl Jones. 762 00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,480 Mr Norman St John Stevas. 763 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:51,800 I call Dr James Hemming. 764 00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,440 Mr Francis Williams. 765 00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,400 Call Anne Scott-James 766 00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,360 Mr Raymond Williams. 767 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,280 Call Mr CK Young. 768 00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:05,960 Call Mr Iain Foster. 769 00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:07,880 Dr CV Wedgwood. 770 00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,480 I call Sir Stanley Unwin. 771 00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:13,640 Professor Kenneth Muir. 772 00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:15,200 Mr Cecil Day-Lewis. 773 00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,320 Call Miss Dilys Powell. 774 00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,200 Mr Walter Allen. 775 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:20,800 Call Mr Roy Jenkins. 776 00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:22,960 Mr Stephen Potter. 777 00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:26,040 Call Miss Janet Adam-Smith. 778 00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:27,920 Mr Noel Annan. 779 00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,440 Mr Hector Hetherington. 780 00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:36,200 Mr Hetherington, you are editor of the Manchester Guardian, 781 00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:38,800 and a member of the Royal Commission on the Police. 782 00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:43,840 Would you tell us what you would say is the theme or meaning of Lady Chatterley's Lover? 783 00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,880 Well, the importance of the book to me 784 00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:51,440 was as an exposition of the beauty and goodness of physical love at its best... 785 00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:52,920 JUDGE GROANS 786 00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:57,560 ..of the redeeming power of sex, and the importance of tenderness. 787 00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,040 Thank you. 788 00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,160 No questions. 789 00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:14,840 Mr Gardener, it is in my mind that the jury may be wondering how much longer this is going to go on. 790 00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,360 How many more witnesses may we expect? 791 00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:21,320 My Lord, I intend to call no witnesses. 792 00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:28,440 Mr Gardiner? My Lord, I have another 36 witnesses waiting to testify to the merit of Lady Chatterley's Lover, 793 00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:35,120 but in view of my learned friend's indication that there will be no witnesses for the prosecution, 794 00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:39,840 I propose to call only one more witness. 795 00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:41,800 Call Miss Bernadine Wall. 796 00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:57,280 Miss Wall, you've just come down from Cambridge? That's right. 797 00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,600 And you're writing a novel yourself, I gather. 798 00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,200 Yes. And you have read Lady Chatterley's Lover? 799 00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:06,720 Yes. I read it first in an expurgated edition, then more recently as Lawrence wrote it. 800 00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,640 And what's your opinion of the unexpurgated version? 801 00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:13,120 It was much better. It gave a positive contrast. 802 00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:17,200 The love affair contrasted with the deadness of the industrial society he was describing. 803 00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:24,280 It held out a hope that this was not all, that there was some way out of this drab, daily existence. 804 00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,080 Thank you. 805 00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:37,720 Now, as to the four-letter words in the book, had you known them before you read the book? Yes, of course. 806 00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:42,720 From what sort of age? My Lord, what has this to do with the literary merit of the book? 807 00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:44,760 Very little, I should think. 808 00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:46,480 My Lord, I'll withdraw the question. 809 00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,000 And while I am on my feet, my Lord, 810 00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:54,920 might I ask whether anybody who has just come down from Cambridge can be tendered as a literary expert? 811 00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:58,040 She has started to write a novel. 812 00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:02,240 So she has, my Lord. I suppose we must all start somewhere. 813 01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:07,960 Carry on, Mr Gardiner. From the point of view of literary merit, 814 01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:11,200 how does this book compare with others you have read, 815 01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:15,240 in its treatment of human relations, including sexual relations? 816 01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,920 It treats that relationship with great dignity. 817 01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,720 More so, I think, than any novel I have ever read. 818 01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:23,320 Thank you, Miss Wall. 819 01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:27,600 No questions. 820 01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:34,600 Fuck. Fucking. 821 01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:38,520 That was a lovely fuck. 822 01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:43,440 I love your cock in my cunt. 823 01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:47,520 Go on. 824 01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:49,160 Now you say something. 825 01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:53,560 I love the feel of your... 826 01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:55,680 Go on. 827 01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:57,880 Cunt round my cock. No, I don't like it. 828 01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:01,840 I mean, I like it, but I don't like saying it out loud like that, it's like talking dirty. 829 01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:03,440 And what's wrong with talking dirty? 830 01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,680 I bet you don't normally use words like that. 831 01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:07,440 Yes, you're right. 832 01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,080 But I can with you. 833 01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:11,120 Why's that? Because I'm a bit of rough? 834 01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:13,360 You're not a bit of rough, Keith. 835 01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:17,000 I think you're rather more respectable than me. 836 01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:18,640 What I meant was... 837 01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,160 ..this is our own little world here, 838 01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:26,520 we can say what we like. Yeah. 839 01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:28,000 Suppose so. 840 01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,520 I know it's not easy to say those words, 841 01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:35,880 but it felt all right just then. 842 01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:37,400 It felt truthful. 843 01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:43,440 And I think DH Lawrence would have thoroughly approved of me. 844 01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,040 And you must have liked it. 845 01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:47,600 Tell you the truth... 846 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:51,640 ..I was a bit shocked to hear that from a woman. 847 01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:53,360 You were, weren't you? 848 01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:56,960 You're so sweet. 849 01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:02,880 What? 850 01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:04,560 What's the matter? 851 01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:07,600 I don't like being patronised, that's what's. I wasn't. Truly. 852 01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:12,080 You don't think of me as equal, that's why it's all so easy for you. Well, if you're going to sulk... 853 01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:14,640 I'm not sulking, I'm just saying what's true. 854 01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:19,920 This is all a game for you. I'm just...an amusement to you, 855 01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:23,440 and when jury service is over, that's it, off you'll go, never a backward look. 856 01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:27,240 What was your plan? To dedicate the rest of your life to me? 857 01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:30,240 You're the one who's married, after all. 858 01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:32,400 Do you want to stop this now? Because you can if you like. 859 01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:36,360 No. I don't want to stop. Then let me say what I was going to just now. 860 01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:39,040 These times with you, 861 01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,400 they've been the best times I've had since... 862 01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,960 ..I don't know when. 863 01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,440 You make me happy. 864 01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:50,400 I love... 865 01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,200 I love making love with you. 866 01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:58,960 Fucking. 867 01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,360 Yes. Fucking. 868 01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:03,240 Yeah, you're right. 869 01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:04,840 That's what it is. 870 01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:07,720 Why call it anything else? 871 01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,320 Fucking. 872 01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:12,560 Cock. Cunt. 873 01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:18,080 You know what? You've got a wonderful cunt. 874 01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:24,640 Well, I think it's probably quite an ordinary cunt, 875 01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:27,280 but it's all for you. This week. 876 01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,800 This week for certain, 877 01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,680 after that, who knows? 878 01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:36,480 I think we should make the most of it. Don't you? 879 01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:48,760 She made me feel like...a God or something. 880 01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:50,760 When we were in her little flat, 881 01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:55,520 it felt like we had the whole world in there. 882 01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,040 The funny thing was... 883 01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:04,160 ..it didn't make me go off Sylvia or nothing. 884 01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:07,280 I felt so... 885 01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,040 happy, strong... 886 01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:12,720 ..confident. 887 01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:14,920 I thought, 888 01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,440 "What's wrong with a man having two women?" 889 01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:22,400 Well, we really do have a mixed jury tonight. 890 01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:24,120 Let's have the first record. 891 01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:30,680 MUSIC: "Blue Angel" by Roy Orbison 892 01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:53,320 What you looking at? See anything you like? 893 01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:57,520 Yeah. Want to do anything about it? 894 01:04:57,520 --> 01:04:59,240 Yeah. 895 01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,680 Don't mind if I do. 896 01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,560 It's not nine o'clock yet. 897 01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:10,000 I don't care. Neither do I, then. 898 01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:38,800 Come on. Let's get this off. No, I'll be cold. No, you won't. 899 01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:52,600 That's it. 900 01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:54,520 That's nice, that is. 901 01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:09,960 And this is nice. 902 01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:11,880 And this is. 903 01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:15,400 Hey, I don't like that. Shush. You will. 904 01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:17,600 I promise. Let me. 905 01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:21,760 No, leave off. Keith! 906 01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:47,520 SOBBING 907 01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:53,240 What's the matter? 908 01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:57,600 What is it? Come on, Sylve. Turn round. 909 01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:02,920 Don't touch me, you bastard! Come on, Sylve. What's the matter? You know what's the matter! What? 910 01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,960 You've got another woman, haven't you? How could I have another woman? 911 01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:08,760 I don't know, but you have, haven't you? 912 01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:11,080 You've got another woman and you do that with her! 913 01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:15,360 Oh, come on, Sylve, don't cry. Get off me! It's true, isn't it? 914 01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:19,240 It's true! 915 01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:21,440 Yes, it's true. 916 01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:26,240 Oh, Christ. Look... I don't want to know anything about it! 917 01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:28,280 I don't want to know anything about her! 918 01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:32,560 You can go to her if you like! 919 01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:35,720 Just leave me alone, that's all! 920 01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:46,760 Members of the jury, 921 01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:49,360 this case has lasted several days, 922 01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:56,800 and you have listened to a great deal of evidence and argument with great patience and close attention. 923 01:07:56,800 --> 01:08:01,800 You have heard a great number of witnesses testify to the merit of this book, 924 01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:03,960 and not one of them 925 01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:07,480 thought it liable to deprave or corrupt. 926 01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:12,320 And what has the prosecution produced? 927 01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:15,600 Not one single witness has been found 928 01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:22,400 to come to court to say anything against Lawrence, or his book. 929 01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:27,760 The prosecution has made a point of reminding you that this is a book published at three and sixpence, 930 01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:31,120 and thus affordable to anybody. 931 01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:37,840 There is a suggestion that it might be all right if it were published as an expensive limited edition, 932 01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:41,280 not for the common man or woman. 933 01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:48,560 My learned friend asks, "Is it a book you would even wish your wife or your servants to read?" 934 01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:52,920 Now, I don't want to upset the prosecution by suggesting 935 01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:56,440 that there are nowadays some people who don't have servants. 936 01:08:57,480 --> 01:09:03,800 But isn't everybody, whether earning £10 a week, or £20 a week, 937 01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:08,080 equally interested in the society in which we live... 938 01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:14,080 ..and equally involved in the problems of relationships, 939 01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:18,160 including sexual relationships? 940 01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:24,320 And shouldn't wives be allowed to read about these things, as well as their husbands? 941 01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:27,120 And isn't it time 942 01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:30,840 we rescued Lawrence's name 943 01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:34,720 from the quite unfair reputation it has had, 944 01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:37,600 and allow our people... 945 01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:41,880 ..his people - 946 01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:44,280 to judge for themselves? 947 01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:49,440 Members of the jury... 948 01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:54,440 ..I leave Lawrence's reputation, 949 01:09:54,440 --> 01:09:57,160 and the reputation of Penguin Books... 950 01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,000 ..in your hands. 951 01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:15,000 Members of the jury, as you will now know, 952 01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:20,080 this case is one of immense importance, with huge and far-reaching consequences. 953 01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:25,040 In a matter of such gravity, I do not propose to waste your time by answering debating points. 954 01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:29,920 It is easy enough to poke fun at the prosecution, especially in a case of this kind, 955 01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,800 but I am not going to refer to any such matters. 956 01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:39,800 Now, my learned friend has examined a number of witnesses in support of the book. 957 01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:43,960 Who have we had? Bishops, prebendaries, other clergymen, 958 01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:50,440 school teachers, a fashion editor, even a young girl who has just started her first novel. 959 01:10:50,440 --> 01:10:53,680 All under the guise of literary experts. 960 01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:58,000 I know that you will not be browbeaten by evidence given by these people. 961 01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:00,720 You will judge this as ordinary people, 962 01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:07,080 your feet on the ground, reading this book and judging it according to your own moral standards. 963 01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:09,560 And there must be standards, must there not? 964 01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:13,560 There must be some restraint, or the floodgates will open. 965 01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:18,360 "A book of moral purpose," one witness called it. 966 01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:20,520 What moral purpose? 967 01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:25,160 If your husband can't satisfy you, go and copulate with other men until you find someone who can. 968 01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:29,200 Isn't that what a young person reading the book would take from it? 969 01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:36,400 Remember that you, and you alone, are the sole judge of the facts in this case. 970 01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:38,520 And in this context, 971 01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:44,440 I would ask your forgiveness for referring you to a passage on page 246. 972 01:11:44,440 --> 01:11:49,160 It is a passage that has not previously been referred to during this trial. 973 01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:56,200 It is that passage which describes what is called "the night of sensual passion". 974 01:11:56,200 --> 01:12:02,320 "It was a night of sensual passion, in which she was a little startled and almost unwilling. 975 01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:05,560 "Though a little frightened, she let him have his way." 976 01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:10,920 Not very easy, you know, to know what he is driving at in that passage. 977 01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:13,920 "And the reckless, shameless sensuality 978 01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:20,720 "shook her to her foundations, stripped her to the very last, and made a different woman of her. 979 01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:26,320 "Burning out the shames, the deepest, oldest shames, in the most secret places. 980 01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:31,640 "It cost her an effort to let him have his way and his will of her." 981 01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:36,800 One wonders why, with all the experiences that had gone before. 982 01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:43,960 "It took some getting at, the core of the physical jungle, the last and deepest recess of organic shame." 983 01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:48,640 I don't know. Is this stuff having a good influence on the young reader? 984 01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:53,160 Members of the jury, do you not think this book has a false conception 985 01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:56,360 of what proper thought and conduct ought to be? 986 01:12:56,360 --> 01:13:00,200 In a time when some proper conception is so badly needed? 987 01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:03,160 I submit to you that there can be but one answer. 988 01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:11,320 Members of the jury, we are approaching the end of this case, 989 01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:14,640 to which you have listened with the greatest care and attention. 990 01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:19,040 I propose that we adjourn until tomorrow, when I will sum up the evidence, 991 01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:23,440 and you will retire to consider your verdict. 992 01:13:23,440 --> 01:13:25,040 All rise! 993 01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:29,080 Let off a bit early today, then! 994 01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:31,000 Time off for good behaviour! 995 01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:33,080 See you in the morning. Right-o. 996 01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:34,600 Evening. 997 01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:38,560 What's the matter? 998 01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:49,320 See that? All right for some, eh? 999 01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:01,040 Well, I was quite surprised at Griffith-Jones today. 1000 01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:03,760 "The night of sensual passion!" 1001 01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,200 I didn't get what he was on about. 1002 01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:09,520 Really? Didn't you? I didn't get it. 1003 01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:12,440 He was talking about buggery, Keith. 1004 01:14:12,440 --> 01:14:15,160 Was he? 1005 01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:20,440 That's what homos do, isn't it? Well, not just homos, actually. 1006 01:14:20,440 --> 01:14:21,920 Bloody hell. 1007 01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:25,400 You mean, you? 1008 01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:29,840 It was something Ray was rather keen on. 1009 01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:31,840 I didn't actually care for it very much. 1010 01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:34,840 Bloody hell. 1011 01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:37,000 Ain't it against the law? 1012 01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:59,080 What's wrong? Sylvia knows. 1013 01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:03,360 You told her? She just sort of knew. I couldn't deny it. I've never been any good at telling lies. 1014 01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:05,520 No. 1015 01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:09,720 What did you tell her about me? Nothing. She didn't want to know. 1016 01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:11,720 She's all upset. 1017 01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:15,040 That's why you nearly didn't come today. Yeah. 1018 01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:18,280 But you did come. 1019 01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:20,320 I couldn't help myself. 1020 01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:26,320 Well, since you are here... 1021 01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:57,280 You don't have to. 1022 01:15:57,280 --> 01:15:58,720 I want you to. 1023 01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:02,440 I want us to do everything they did. 1024 01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:08,680 I want to give you everything she gave him. 1025 01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:11,320 I want you to give me everything he gave her. 1026 01:16:20,280 --> 01:16:26,480 "She had to be a passive, consenting thing, like a slave, a physical slave. 1027 01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:32,080 "Yet the passion licked round her, consuming, 1028 01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:38,240 "and when the sensual flame of it pressed through her bowels and breast, she thought she was dying. 1029 01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:42,040 "She often wondered what Abelard meant, when he said that in their year of love, 1030 01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:46,720 "he and Heloise had passed through all the stages and refinements of passion. 1031 01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:52,160 "She felt, now, she had come to the real bed-rock of her nature, 1032 01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:55,360 "and was essentially shameless." 1033 01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:07,880 Stay with me. 1034 01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:09,440 Please? 1035 01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:30,160 In a bleak warehouse near London Airport, 1036 01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:35,760 tens of thousands of copies of Lady Chatterley's Lover are being packaged up and made ready for delivery. 1037 01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:38,000 It's in the hands of the jury. 1038 01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,840 Will they go on sale or be pulped? 1039 01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:48,360 Members of the jury, you are the sole judges of the facts. 1040 01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:52,040 As we all know, these days the world seems to be full of experts. 1041 01:17:52,040 --> 01:17:56,440 But our criminal law is based on the view that the jury takes of the facts, 1042 01:17:56,440 --> 01:18:00,320 and not the view that experts say you should take. 1043 01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:06,920 You've got to look at the book as one you yourselves might have bought for three shillings and sixpence, 1044 01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:12,360 and then you must ask yourselves the question, "Does it tend to deprave and corrupt?" 1045 01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:16,880 Now, you have been told that it is a moral tract, 1046 01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:20,280 and a book that Christians should read. 1047 01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:22,560 But what do you think? 1048 01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:25,200 What is the story? 1049 01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:29,080 A woman has sexual intercourse before she is married, 1050 01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:34,920 and then, after she is married, commits adultery with someone called Michaelis, 1051 01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:39,600 and then proceeds to have adulterous intercourse with her husband's gamekeeper. 1052 01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:43,080 And that is described, you may think, 1053 01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:45,120 in the most lurid way. 1054 01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:50,440 If you have any reasonable doubt whether it has been proved to your satisfaction 1055 01:18:50,440 --> 01:18:56,040 that the tendency of this book is to deprave and corrupt morals, of course you will acquit. 1056 01:18:56,040 --> 01:18:59,960 On the other hand, if you are satisfied that the book 1057 01:18:59,960 --> 01:19:06,040 does have a tendency to deprave and corrupt, of course you will not hesitate to say so. 1058 01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:11,360 Now, a vast number of witnesses have been called. 1059 01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:16,040 But you are not governed by the opinions they have expressed. 1060 01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:19,120 You are the judges of the matter. 1061 01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:24,720 You might think that some of them proceeded on the basis, 1062 01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:28,840 this is a book by Lawrence, therefore this is a good book. 1063 01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:32,240 You must make up your own minds about that. 1064 01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:39,840 So, if you'd be kind enough to retire and consider your verdict and tell me how you find. 1065 01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:44,040 All rise! 1066 01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:01,160 Well, who'd like to start us off? 1067 01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:05,520 Well, I'd say guilty. If that's not a dirty book, I don't know what is. 1068 01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:11,520 I mean, a laugh's a laugh, but I don't mind saying I found it quite shocking in parts. 1069 01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:13,360 And as to literary merit? 1070 01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:17,160 I don't think it's clever sticking in those four-letter words in. 1071 01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:22,080 My dad used to say swearing was the sign of an impoverished vocabulary. 1072 01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:25,600 I agree with him. I think it should be banned. 1073 01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:30,520 The judge seemed to think we should return a guilty verdict. 1074 01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:33,040 He also said we didn't have to follow his opinion. 1075 01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:37,440 True. It's interesting that the prosecution didn't call any expert witnesses. 1076 01:20:37,440 --> 01:20:40,680 They didn't need any. It's like the judge said. 1077 01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:43,480 I think it's rather more likely that they couldn't find any. 1078 01:20:43,480 --> 01:20:45,680 You think it should be banned. 1079 01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:50,840 Do you really think it might deprave or corrupt anybody? 1080 01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:54,360 That's not the point. It should be banned on grounds of public decency. 1081 01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:56,360 It's exactly as the prosecution put it. 1082 01:20:56,360 --> 01:21:01,760 Publish this and you've opened the floodgates, you've opened the way for any kind of filthy rubbish. 1083 01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:05,840 We'll be poisoning the minds of our own children, and generations to follow. 1084 01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:09,720 Is this what we want the 1960s to be? 1085 01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:15,520 Is this what we fought two world wars for, the freedom to publish dirty books? 1086 01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:17,720 But this isn't a dirty book! 1087 01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:20,960 There's nothing dirty about sex. 1088 01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:23,200 It's natural, isn't it? 1089 01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:29,080 And I don't like the idea of anyone telling me what I'm allowed to read and not allowed to read. 1090 01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:33,480 And I don't want to be the one to tell anyone else, except my own kids, 1091 01:21:33,480 --> 01:21:39,560 and they're grown up now anyway, and they can choose for themselves. Cos that's what we're here for, isn't it, 1092 01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:42,840 to say if other people can read it? 1093 01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:45,360 Well, it hasn't done any of us any harm, has it? 1094 01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:47,960 I wonder if it has. 1095 01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:02,800 Do any of us think that we have been depraved or corrupted by reading Lady Chatterley's Lover? 1096 01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:06,080 Well, who'd answer yes to a question like that? 1097 01:22:06,080 --> 01:22:11,200 That is the question we are asked to answer. 1098 01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:18,760 And perhaps the best way to answer it is to ask ourselves, have I been depraved or corrupted by this book? 1099 01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:23,960 We've been picked at random - 12 ordinary men and women. 1100 01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:28,560 If the book has a tendency to deprave and corrupt, 1101 01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:33,640 then it's likely, isn't it, that it would have had that effect on us, 1102 01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:37,600 or at least some of us. So, has it? 1103 01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:45,480 Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I've been a bit...you know...shook up by it. 1104 01:22:45,480 --> 01:22:53,160 Reading this book, I feel like I might be missing out on things, you know...sex and that. 1105 01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:56,600 I don't mean to say I've never had it or anything, 1106 01:22:56,600 --> 01:22:59,760 but not like in the book. 1107 01:22:59,760 --> 01:23:02,440 And it sort of makes you think, 1108 01:23:02,440 --> 01:23:08,120 "Maybe I should," sort of thing, but I don't suppose I ever shall. 1109 01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:13,440 Is that depraved and corrupted? I wouldn't have thought so. Wouldn't you? 1110 01:23:13,440 --> 01:23:17,280 I think our friend here has put his finger on something. What it is is this, 1111 01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:20,760 the man who wrote this book is saying sex is everything, 1112 01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:26,160 and any kind of behaviour is justified in the search for sex, sex, and more sex! 1113 01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:32,560 He's saying it's perfectly fine for women to behave like whores before marriage and in marriage, 1114 01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:39,280 it's perfectly fine to hold your marriage vows with contempt, all for the sake of sex. 1115 01:23:39,280 --> 01:23:46,640 He's telling us that we should indulge and satisfy our appetites like farmyard animals! 1116 01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:50,080 If that's not depraving and corrupting, I don't know what is! 1117 01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:53,840 All he's doing is asking us to think about our lives. 1118 01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:57,000 And what result has that had in your case, may I ask? 1119 01:23:57,000 --> 01:23:59,840 Or perhaps I don't need to ask. 1120 01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:06,400 I wouldn't say I'd been depraved or corrupted by Lady Chatterley's Lover, 1121 01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:10,920 but I would say I've been affected by it. 1122 01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:13,760 But that's not a bad thing, that's a good thing, isn't it? 1123 01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:16,600 He's challenging us to look at our lives. 1124 01:24:16,600 --> 01:24:19,200 He's saying that some things are so... 1125 01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:22,040 special, 1126 01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:24,520 they're worth sacrificing anything for. 1127 01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:30,840 And sex...really good sex... is such a strong thing, 1128 01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:35,520 it just smashes up your whole life and puts it together in a different way. 1129 01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:41,560 If you find that passion and tenderness with someone... 1130 01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:45,600 ..you have to follow it. 1131 01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:49,000 That's what he's saying. 1132 01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:52,080 But you can't just live your whole life like that. 1133 01:24:52,080 --> 01:24:54,520 Maybe Lawrence could, but we can't. 1134 01:24:56,920 --> 01:25:00,000 I mean, you'd just burn yourself up... 1135 01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:01,920 ..wouldn't you? 1136 01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:04,480 Wouldn't it be worth it? 1137 01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:15,800 They're coming back. 1138 01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:51,800 Members of the jury, are you agreed upon your verdict? We are. 1139 01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:58,040 Do you find that Penguin Books are guilty or not guilty of publishing an obscene article? 1140 01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:03,160 Not guilty. 1141 01:26:03,160 --> 01:26:06,480 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 1142 01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:09,840 Silence in court! 1143 01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:15,040 Silence in court! 1144 01:26:16,520 --> 01:26:18,840 Silence in court! 1145 01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:23,800 I still don't know whether we done the right thing. 1146 01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:27,480 Not the verdict - I mean, me and Helena. 1147 01:27:27,480 --> 01:27:32,240 It was thinking about Sylvia and the baby coming, that and thinking, 1148 01:27:32,240 --> 01:27:36,720 "Well, like Helena said - sex isn't everything." 1149 01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:38,720 Maybe I was wrong. 1150 01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:41,600 But in a funny sort of way, 1151 01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:45,560 I think it was good for us, me and Sylvia, I mean. 1152 01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:47,760 Not at first, of course. 1153 01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:50,000 A bit rough at first, 1154 01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:52,480 but we stayed together. 1155 01:27:54,800 --> 01:27:56,920 It seems funny now, 1156 01:27:56,920 --> 01:27:59,600 all that passion. 1157 01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:02,680 All such a long time ago. 1158 01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:06,800 Yes, I married again, to a very nice man indeed. 1159 01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:09,200 He died three years ago. We were very happy. 1160 01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:12,120 I was very lucky. 1161 01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:13,640 But the most intense, the most important experience of my life, I'd have to say, 1162 01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:18,320 But the most intense, the most important experience of my life, I'd have to say, 1163 01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:23,000 was that week of sex, that week of love I had with Keith. 1164 01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:26,640 My Chatterley affair. 1165 01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:39,280 The time now is five minutes to 12, to zero hour, because here in this bookshop in the heart of London, 1166 01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:43,080 Lady Chatterley goes on sale at 12 noon sharp. 1167 01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:47,400 So let's wait and see how the rush develops and see what happens. 1168 01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:53,400 One copy only. 1169 01:28:53,400 --> 01:28:55,240 Thank you. 1170 01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:58,520 Two, please. One only. Only one. 1171 01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:01,800 Why are you buying a copy? Just to see what it's about. 1172 01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:03,200 Why do you want a copy? 1173 01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:07,040 We've heard so much about it, I just want to have a look. How about you? 1174 01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:10,320 I shall be doing a course on the modern novel at university. 1175 01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:13,160 Why do you want a copy of Lady Chatterley? 1176 01:29:13,160 --> 01:29:16,600 How about you? Just to find out what it's all about. 1177 01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:19,800 Why do you want a copy? I'm buying it for somebody else. 1178 01:29:19,800 --> 01:29:21,600 You're buying it for somebody else? 1179 01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:24,960 Why do you want a copy? For my wife. For your wife? 1180 01:29:31,080 --> 01:29:34,560 Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd 105501

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