All language subtitles for Philly.D.A.S01E08.1080p.WEBRip.x264-BAE_Track03

- Previously on "Philly DA"...

- You got to get away
from cash bail

'cause there's some people
who just can't pay bail.

- Exactly.
- This is bail reform 1.0.

There's gonna be a 2.0.

- We will not allow a price tag
on our freedom.

- Phase one felt like a victory.

Ultimately, we want
to end cash bail.

- They elected us.

Those are the people
to whom we answer,

and all great changes
come from movements.

- You are not being fair.

I think you better go see
what your job description was.

- Krasner, he's a loser.

All he wants to do
is let everybody go.

[pensive music]

♪

♪

- It is my pleasure to introduce

District Attorney Larry Krasner.

- So I came here
to shamelessly recruit.

You don't know you want to be
a progressive DA until you see

what a progressive DA's office
is doing.

When the pirates
take over the ship,

you're gonna have to change
some of the crew.

We're going to 25 law schools
all over the country,

California, Texas, the South,
the Midwest, Northeast.

Hello. How you doing?

I want good lawyers.

[laughter]

We are looking for people
who want to be prosecutors

but not if they think
that the TV show

"Law & Order" got it right.

We need people

who will change
the culture of these offices

because culture will eat policy
all day long.

That is the thing about being
a district attorney.

You have the power to say, "No,
I'm not gonna charge that."

"Yes, I am gonna charge that."

- For those of us who fought
against the system

for so many years,

to knock your head against
the wall every single day

and then to find yourself
in a situation

where you can change the rules.

- In Philly, the number

of future years of incarceration

is half as much as it was
before I was in office.

We divert more cases,
offer shorter sentences.

We got ten innocent people
out of prison.

We hired a criminologist who
was afraid he'd catch on fire

when he walked in the door.

I am not a person who believes

that there should be
a complete abolition of jails.

Some crimes merit incarceration
and some of them don't.

But someone who has
genuine compassion

and knowledge in this field

ought to be making
those decisions,

even though it might
keep you up at night

for the rest of your damn life.

- We're gonna need an army
of lawyers

like you to be able to do this.

- There is a group,

nationally,
of progressive prosecutors.

We are out there.
And this movement is real.

You don't just want
to fight the good fight.

You want to win.

♪

Are we winning?
- I think so.

It's a new crop
of folks, though.

It's only been
a couple of years.

We just have to remind people,
"We just got here."

I tell people all the time,
I cannot dismantle a system

that has existed for as long
as it has

in two months
that gets to all of it.

Can't get to all of it
fast enough.

- I mean, you must feel like
you're doing something right

when Donald Trump
wants to wave his fist at you.

[laughter]

- I feel a lot of pressure,
particularly from those

who want so badly
for the system to be better

and look at you for that.
How do you deal with that?

- Hmm.
I usually think of the pressure

coming from the people
who don't want the system

to be better.
[laughter]

I don't want to...
- Do you?

- I feel more pressure coming
from the opposition.

- Really?
- I kind of feel like

the people
who want it to change,

even if it's not changing
as quickly as they would like

or as completely
as they would like,

even if we have not abolished
prisons yet, you know?

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- I feel more pressure
from the opposition.

- I just assume they're gonna
be opposition.

It's just... I think I assume

that there's a certain element
of folks that,

no matter what you do,
don't want you to do it.

It is the people
who have been...

and have been
disenfranchised for so long,

who have lost complete
and utter faith,

that I worry about the most

because every setback
feels like, "We knew

it wasn't gonna change."
And you're like, "Oh, my God.

"Bear with me.

We're not gonna change things
overnight."

- Say I...
- I...

- I believe...
- I believe...

- I believe that we will win!
- I believe that we will win!

- Now tell me what democracy
looks like!

- This is what democracy
looks like!

- Show me what
democracy looks like!

- This is what democracy
looks like!

- Show me what democracy
looks like!

- This is what democracy
looks like!

- Now make some noise!

[cheers and applause]

- All right, all right.

Let's give it up to him.

Today's event
is about listening.

And instead of having
our elected

and other officials
in our city do the talking,

they're gonna be
listening on today.

It's we the people.

- Yes! Make some noise!
- And you are in charge.

So today, we're here
to hold a hearing

about ending cash bail
and pretrial detention.

Come on, we're gonna change
the world.

A people's state.

[applause]

[somber music]

- My name is Veronica,
and at the age of 52,

I was incarcerated
for the first time

and held on cash bail
for 90 days.

During those 90 days,

I missed the birth
of one of my grandchildren.

The law claims that you are
innocent until proven guilty.

But by holding me pretrial,

the criminal injustice system

had already decided
I was guilty.

- 10%, or $250 cash,
would have enabled me

to bail out or be free.
$250.

- It might as well
have been a million,

'cause the 200 and some dollars
I had, the police took it.

- I'm in a regular
$10-an-hour job.

I couldn't afford that.

- If I am too dangerous
to be let out on the street,

I don't think that $5,000 later,

I get less dangerous
to get out on the street.

[applause]

- Right now,
it was really fitting

that we give our panelists
a turn to speak.

And if you could keep it
to two sentences,

that would be great.

- Come on, Larry.
- Mm-hmm.

[laughter]

- Stand up, Larry.

- I really just
got to do two sentences?

So I think that, number one,
we do need to end cash bail.

We have always needed
to end cash bail.

[applause]

Number two, I intend to push,

with the
First Judicial District...

because the judges are the ones
who make the decisions...

A narrative
which tells a true story.

And the only way to do that
is with data.

And we can use that story with
the public,

with the press.

And if we're able to do
that effectively,

then we will have
a compelling argument

that's gonna get us somewhere.

- Come on.
- Thank you.

- Larry Krasner
was able to craft

this phase one of bail reform.

And that became, like,
the first step towards us

getting to a process
to actually end cash bail.

We're grateful
that we have someone

to move the ball forward.

But please do not think
that phase one

is the end-all, be-all

or that we claim it
as a victory.

We need the Office
of the DA, Larry Krasner,

to take a bold step forward
to end cash bail

as a practice in Philadelphia.

[quiet music]

♪

- So for some reason,

when I'm nervous about meetings,

I just print a lot of things,
so I printed a lot of things.

You and I have talked
about this before.

Based both on your work
as an office

and the work of advocates
on the outside,

we have reduced
the jail population

by 42.7% as of yesterday.

However, what we have many
of the magistrates doing,

even in the wake
of your important reform,

is setting bail.

We bailed out a pregnant woman
for $50.

- $50.
We bailed out mothers...

- We bailed out mothers
who were there for 14 months.

We're still locking people
up on bails.

- Well, I'll tell you, you know,

one of the interesting things
about the study

of our bail policies was that,

while, generally, these...

bail commissioners, magistrates,

whatever you call them... while
generally, they were doing

what we wanted
on the misdemeanors,

they did not do what we wanted
on 2/3 of the felonies.

That seems to be
where they drew the line.

- That is completely
unacceptable.

- If we can't statutorily
eliminate bail in Pennsylvania,

then what we can do is take
a version of our bail policy,

which perhaps identifies
additional offenses,

and we can try to work
with a presumption

that they get out.

- Presumption of release.
That would clear out

so many people
from the arraignment system,

from the jails.

Like, I remember deeply,
the time when I was arrested,

and you were my attorney,
and I was sitting in the jail,

and there was a woman who was
screaming the entire time

we were there.
She was sent back on a bail.

I don't remember
how many thousands of dollars.

That wouldn't happen anymore.
We wouldn't have to do that.

I think that it's about
trying to figure out

culturally how we prove it

that most human beings,

even at the highest levels,
an aggravated assault,

most human beings,
if we let them go,

will come back
and won't get arrested again.

I want to win.

I want humans
to be out of cages.

That's why we didn't take
a purely abolitionist position.

We want to support you
as you're engaging

in these deep questions
with the court.

- You know, there could be some
really constructive stuff here.

I just don't know to what
extent the system is able

to... to change this much.

But we will... I mean,
over time, it is.

- It's not easy.
But I worry that, God forbid,

like when you retire
or go to a beach,

we get someone else in here.

So I really think this is
the highest stakes possible.

[ambient electronic music]

[background chatter]

- We're running
a little behind today.

- Okay.

♪

- Thank you.

- And just grab a seat here.

- You're a former
police officer.

- Yeah, I was.
I was.

- Where were you
a police officer?

- Prince George's County,
Maryland.

- Tell us about that.
- It was... I would say,

I definitely don't regret
having had the experience.

It eventually kind of got
to a point where I felt

that things
were being asked of me

that I really, frankly,

just wasn't really comfortable
with doing,

and so I started actually
looking at alternative careers.

And so I...

- But you see yourself
as a trial lawyer?

- I do, absolutely.

- So you've seen court
from the point of view

of a law enforcement officer.
- Right.

- What was the big difference,
if any?

- As prosecutors, our role
is in some ways

to be kind of a check
on the police department.

One of the most eye-opening
things

was to get a police report

and immediately be able
to start reading

between the lines of,
you know, in my experience,

this doesn't sound like

what probably
should have been done.

It's problems
with the reasonable suspicion,

the probable cause,
there's some issues here.

At the same time,

you can't have
an antagonistic relationship

to where every time
they come in,

you're looking at each other
sideways and you're arguing

and, you know,
you put them on the stand

and the case falls apart.

So I think really
just reassuring them

that none of this is personal,

that the whole point of this
is to achieve justice.

- What should we,
as African American men,

be doing as prosecutors
that's different

from, perhaps, others
who are in the same field?

- Definitely, there's a lot
of pressure

from the
African American community

because a lot of times,
there's this view that...

- We're locking up brothers.
- Exactly.

- And sisters.
- And, you know, why are you

with them and you're the enemy,
and all these types of things.

And I think all prosecutors
should actually be doing it,

but I think, especially
as an African American male,

you really have a special duty
to make sure

that you're not just moving
the assembly line along

but something that can be done
that maybe doesn't necessarily

have to involve
this defendant going to prison.

You really have to take
that extra moment to really...

examine what it is you're doing.

- Any questions of us?
- Um...

So, I guess, obviously,
the elephant in the room

would be where do you see
the relationship

in terms of the office

and the police department
moving forward?

- It's about communication,
about what's going on,

and we're looking
for people like yourself

who might have an interest
in working here

to be a part
of that kind of communication.

[phone ringing]

[indistinct chatter]

- Is a RSP always graded
as a third degree felony?

- Yes.
- It's all relative to whether

or not you have a prior.
- Oh, wait. Here you go.

- And this person has no priors.

- Some hieroglyphics

I don't understand.
Is that English?

- Hmm.
- Right?

I don't know what that says.

VECSL?

- FTA.
Failed to appear.

- UUA with RSP.
Unauthorized use

of an automobile
and receiving stolen property.

- EWOC, endangering
the welfare of a child.

- I was thinking "Star Wars."

[laughter]

- This is
my first prostitution case.

I don't think we're even
prosecuting this case.

- At least they didn't give her
a PIC charge for this

like they're doing
in Allegheny County.

- What are they giving
a PIC charge for?

- For the condom.

Possession of
an instrument of crime.

- Oh, my God.
- Isn't that ridiculous?

♪

- It's long days, but work
I can actually get behind,

whereas, when I started
at the department,

it was just like,

"What are you actually
doing to the community?"

I think, as a Black officer,

that was something
I really wrestled with.

There were definitely days
where I just dreaded

going to work.
I'm putting on my uniform,

and I'm thinking,
"I don't want to go in."

You make these arrests,
and it's painful because,

on the one hand,
you almost feel like

you're contributing
to the problem in a way

because you're locking up
another young Black male

for a felony that's gonna
keep him from voting,

that's gonna keep him
from getting a job,

that's gonna send him
to a prison

where he's gonna learn
to become a better criminal.

But the same time,
you still have this job

to protect the community.
It really is the situation

where you almost feel
like you're caught

between these
two different worlds.

Some of my friends
from law school look it as,

if you have any role in
the criminal justice system,

then you're part of the problem.

Bottom line is, those positions,

they're gonna be filled
with somebody.

And if it's not people

who look
at the role of prosecution

with a respect
for the power that it entails,

it's gonna be filled
with people who look at it as,

"I'm here to put
people in prison."

So if I'm in this position,
then I could be addressing

the things that have
brought people

into the system.

[pensive music]

♪

- A rash of shootings
will be the subject

of an emergency meeting

in Southwest Philadelphia
tonight.

Three teenagers were shot
in the same neighborhood

between Sunday night
and Monday morning.

- We've now had 355 homicides
in Philadelphia in 2019.

That's two more than last year.

- So this meeting
is about a call for action.

We got to save our kids.

- We're gonna be targeting
prolific offenders,

the most violent offenders
in your neighborhood.

So we're asking you
to support us.

So if you see the police
out there make an arrest

and you see
who they're arresting,

if they're the problem child
in your neighborhood,

please don't give
the police a hard time.

And I will guarantee you this...

You're hearing it
from my mouth...

That the police
will not violate your rights.

I will make sure of that.

- There's some impression that,
if you're in a neighborhood

or the hood,
that you don't like cops.

So let's stand and give the cops

a round of applause, please.

[somber music]

♪

- All right, everyone.
Why don't we get started?

- A number of crimes that are
on the crime status sheet,

they are becoming more serious.

And I'd like to understand
a little bit

about what the DA's plan,
and probably in concert

with the police department's
plan, is

for security overall

and for the policing
of the area.

- We have some different ideas
about criminal justice.

I think there's been a lot
of attention on the reform.

And I think that's good
because I think, ultimately,

the system will work better

with the kind of changes
that we're looking for.

But it doesn't mean
that those serious,

violent crimes
are not being prosecuted,

particularly
when it comes to shootings,

when it comes to homicides.

So we're looking to spend
less time on the small stuff

and more time on the big stuff.

- Good evening.
Thank you for coming.

We have this town hall format
to address a recent increase

in crimes in our South
Philadelphia neighborhoods.

- We have a DA
that doesn't care.

The no cash bail policy
doesn't work,

and neither does his ideas

of not charging
for quality of life crimes

so he can say crime
is down and it's not.

- My kids are afraid to walk
from 2700 block of Smedley

to my mother's at 2800
if she needs sugar or milk.

- The police do their jobs,
lock everybody up,

and Krasner lets them out.

- Hi.
My name is Lyandra Retacco.

I'm from
the District Attorney's Office.

And I didn't want to interrupt
or say anything

to the people who were speaking
'cause I want to hear you.

- [indistinct]

[crowd murmurs]

What I can say...

- Please let her speak.

- Their hands are tied
because of you guys.

Their hands are tied.

They can't do nothing
because of you guys.

They hate your policies.
They hate them.

And they're paid
to protect them.

- Let's take a step back

'cause this is not
what we're here for.

We want to be here because
we care about the city too.

And we want to be able...

[angry shouting]

I'm just asking you
to take a step back.

- Fine. Sit down and shut up,
would you?

- Hey, hey, hey, hey.
No, no, no, no.

[applause]

- You can't defend yourself.

- Hi, Reuben.
- Welcome to the oval table.

- The oval table top?

- Yay!

- When I see stories coming out
in the press

around extraordinary, tragic
acts of harm and violence,

how in an environment

where we've passed
the murder rate of last year,

where we have the highest rate
since 2007,

how do we lift up the need,
in fact,

for more decarceration?

- Phase one has been
really exciting for all of us.

We'd love to dig deeper
into phase two

and what that can mean
in terms of expansion.

- Lyandra and I spend
three hours a week

listening to police captains
or community groups saying...

- Or elected officials.

- "Y'all are not doing
anything."

Oh, yeah, I forgot about them.

People think
there's a sense of lawlessness

because the only narrative
that's being carried

is because there's no bail,

it means we're not
charging people.

The only thing
you should be doing

is detaining people
on pretrial detention,

with or without the cash bail.
- Yes.

- This is one of
the biggest problems.

I don't care what
you've been charged with,

terrible aggravated assault,
you're still innocent.

There's a serious problem

with
cross-racial identifications.

And the more serious the charge,

the more likelihood that
you're gonna have

innocent Black people sitting
in prison

for something they didn't do

because it's a terrible charge.

But I feel like this
fundamentally gets lost

in that initial conversation
about bail.

All of those charging documents
are just that, charges.

They're nothing else.
Sorry. That was a...

- Yeah, yeah.
- No, no.

- We agree.
- But like, to the victim

of the crime or the community
at large,

we say that repeatedly,

and they're like,
"Yeah. I don't care."

- Bail is supposed to be
about coming to court.

It's not supposed to be
about giving the community

a break and...

- And it's not supposed to be
preemptive punishment.

- Exactly right.
But in order for us

to have that conversation,
we have to force it.

- And we're kind of stuck
in the middle of,

we agree we don't want someone
to have a cash bail

or be detained for reasons
other than immediate harm

to others
or themselves or flight risk.

But at the same time,
we are being held responsible

for having
interventions created.

And we don't think that

it should be
criminal justice interventions.

We're trying to change
that conversation,

and we could really use
some support on the call

is not just for us
to end cash bail.

But the call is
for public health officials

to step up
and take more responsibility

for public health problems.

- I mean, if we're serious
about replacing cash bail,

we need something to replace it
with. That's the problem.

- We don't have anything
to replace it with.

Talking about
#EndCashBail right now,

totally honest,
I don't think we're ready.

And it scares me.

[light music]

- I was incarcerated
as a juvenile.

So I was no stranger
to these systems

because they became normalized
in my environment.

People don't need to be saved.
They need to be empowered.

What people need is access
to resource and a voice

and a decision-making process
that impacts their lives.

Larry kept his word.

He began to have
these monthly meetings with us

where we bring
different issues to the table.

I don't remember any DA

making himself
accessible to the community,

particularly around ideas
and decision making.

We were looked at
as the people throwing rocks

at the government.

So this is unique

in the history of Philadelphia.

[upbeat music]

♪

- Since we put in the bail plan,

it's been a 100-person
reduction every week.

And that's not gonna
last forever.

- Well, here's the problem.

If you're gonna ask
for a lot of money

over what the mayor is saying,
you need to say,

"This is what this buys us."

So your problem is gonna be,

you're gonna show
people savings.

But if the other folks
don't capture that value,

then it can't be reinvested
to what you want.

- We're doing 200 resentencings
of juvenile lifers.

Some of these people,
under the last administration,

were being offered 65 years,
which is not an offer at all.

The vast majority of them
were going to say

some other number, like 30.

If you are saving...

- [sneezes]
- Bless you.

- 35 years' worth of $42,000,

you're talking about one person

and $1 1/2 million in savings.

You start taking those numbers
and multiplying them out.

I mean...

- They don't care
about any of that.

- They don't care
about $100 million?

- Nothing.
You are talking philosophy,

and they are talking, "Today,
what is in my bank account?"

That's all
they're interested in.

- Because we're moving
the cases along more quickly,

the backlog is reduced.

The period of time
from commencement of a case

until release from jail

has shortened from an average
of 120 days to 90 days.

You know, I mean,
does that do it?

Not really.

We might have to do
some napkin calculations

because just a reduction
in courtrooms.

- If you can't write it in a
small eighth grade newspaper,

no one's gonna understand it.

♪

- Our next department is
District Attorney's Office.

- First of all,

we have a terrible issue
around shootings.

We have a terrible issue
around homicides.

This is what keeps
the police commissioner and me,

and, I'm sure, all of you,
up at night,

but the time to tell
a simplistic story

about how bad people
just commit crime,

and it's got nothing
to do with education,

it's got nothing
to do with poverty...

that time is over.

What we are talking about here
is a systemic problem,

and we cannot arrest
our way out of it.

Yes, handcuffs are a part
of what we have to do.

But the reality is,
if you're gonna spend

all of your money on
supervision and incarceration,

then you're not gonna have it
for public schools,

you're not gonna have it
for drug treatment,

and you're not gonna have it
for the services in place

so that
when people are not in custody,

there is something to do.

If the state is not gonna
have to spend a fortune

to put people in jail
for too long,

then they should be able
to reinvest it in Philadelphia

and things that prevent crime.

- The system of justice,
whether we like it or not,

has been and is based on roles.

And the role of the prosecutor

is to present
vigorous prosecution.

That's how our system works.

I'm not really that interested,
quite frankly,

as a primary issue
of saving funds

because, to me,
the prosecutor is there

for public safety reasons,
saving lives,

preventing physical harm,
danger to the population...

[voice fading]

- Big-city,
ward machine politics,

elected officials,
blah, blah, blah.

You can't do anything.
A lot of what is happening

is nothing
but institutional resistance.

We have a systemic failure
when it comes to bail.

We need to have
funding of programs

for people who are released
without paying bail

but who have significant issues,

be they mental health issues,
homelessness, extreme poverty.

Some of these other
law enforcement entities,

they have all kinds
of power reasons

and all kinds of money reasons
not to want that reform.

A lot of what they do is rooted
in some terrible history.

So we, the outsiders, need
to go inside of government,

we need to take it over,

we need to make it work for us.

Part of my hesitation is
I also know...

that there's danger
in holding that power,

that there's danger that you
become what you fought against.

♪

Mmm.

- Hey, Krasner.
How are you?

- Good morning.

- Just don't make it colder
in here, like...

- Oh, sorry.

- You're really... all right.

Do whatever.
It's your room.

It's...

- The thing that I struggle
with, for bail

and having a real discussion
about getting rid of cash bail

is I don't know
what we replace it with.

So I want to try to figure out
if we can make

some recommendations
about how to do bail 2.0.

- Okay.
- So they're talking about

bringing in all cases,
what is the cutoff point?

- $100,000 and less.
Attempt murders,

guns, all of them,
I'm willing to look at them.

I'm just not going to have
the presumption

that I'm looking for ways
to get you out.

I'm gonna be saying
no a lot more.

And we're gonna be tracking it.

- We all agree that if you are
dealing drugs,

get caught, and then get bail,

then go deal some more drugs,
that's a bad thing?

- But so then the question
becomes,

what are we comfortable with
or if... 'cause yes...

- The idea is not
to let everybody out.

That's not what they've done
in D.C. ever.

They actually keep
a lot of people.

They keep 12%.

- And then for the ACLU
type people,

for the people on the left,

I don't think that I, at least,

am gonna be able to inform

the discussions about bail
for the Bail Coalition

for at least
a couple of months at best.

While we get a sense
of what we are comfortable with

as far as pretrial conditions

that aren't bail
like they have in D.C.

- We do need to have a 2.0.
Even if the only thing our 2.0.

does is says we got it right

or it says we shouldn't have
let this group of people out.

I mean, we have to be looking
at that, too,

looking at... we
have to be looking at

where people who should have
been in get out, right?

- Mm-hmm.

- But I think we should have
some kind of mental deadline.

The ideal time, I think,
would be...

assuming that things go well,

would be when we're seeing that,

you know,
crime is dropping consistent

with the normal fall cycle.

And so we wouldn't be subject
to immediate

slamming politically
or in the press

because we're
in the middle of a spike.

That would be the best time
to roll something out.

[somber electronic music]

♪

- Okay. We did phase one.

Is there any updates
on phase two?

- Yeah.
So we still need to do more

to determine what we think
phase two should be.

And adding additional charges,

whether it's more misdemeanors
or felonies as well.

- Phase two is way harder.

Like, the low-hanging fruit
from our perspective

is mostly gone.

And then we're talking
about crimes

that involve harm to others
or guns.

And those are
hard conversations to have.

Doesn't mean we're not
heading in that direction,

but ideally, we'd be heading
in that direction

and we'd have more services

hooked up at the moment
of arraignment.

- Yeah.

- And so we're balancing
a lot of things here

including making sure
that suddenly somebody

doesn't get released
and shoot somebody.

And that's not an excuse.

- The activists who believe
that attaching a dollar amount

to someone's freedom
is evil, I get that.

I understand that completely.

But that's the system that
we're working in right now.

- There's lots of room
for improvement

in pretrial services.

For example,
day reporting centers,

places where people can go
to check in during pretrial

rather than being in jail.

Another example is GPS
electronic ankle monitors.

We don't have that capacity
in Philadelphia.

Our only tool now is
send someone to jail or not.

- If there's no condition
or combination of conditions

that can assure
the safety of the community,

you got to hold
that guy pretrial.

It is a responsibility
that we took on when we said

that we were gonna be
the District Attorney's Office.

- The end terms of bail
of phase two.

This is the list
that we're putting forward.

All quality of life offenses,
all drug charges,

all misdemeanors,
criminal trespass, burglary,

any instances where the only
charge is a firearm charge.

- This is
a very reasonable list.

I think anytime I say
all anything to my boss,

he gets nervous.
The all misdemeanors,

including simple assault,
is going to be problematic.

- Larry, let's end cash bail
in Philadelphia today

through the power
of your office.

And if the judges impose it,
that's something different.

But we need to hear
that commitment from Larry.

Now he is a politician

'cause now he does have
to worry about public opinion.

So I think some of the decisions

he's made has reflected that.

- We are reviewing the policies

and trying to figure out
what steps we can take.

- I don't think it's something
that would happen fast.

And it has the potential,
at least, to be controversial.

And so I just don't know.

- It seems like we're having
the same conversation

we had three times.
And you're kind of saying

the same things
you said three meetings ago.

For me, personally, I've been
through this whole system.

I've been through
the foster care system.

I've been through
the prison system.

I've been charged as an adult.
I did 18 months for a case

I didn't commit and then
the case got thrown out.

My family's been destroyed
by these systems.

And so for me
to come up in here and act

like it's not an urgency,

that's not real for me.
Y'all have made progress.

But the thing is,
we need to be clear

about what steps
are gonna happen next

so that we can know
what's going on,

so that we can feel good
about this.

And I don't feel good
about this.

I'm gonna be real with y'all.

- I understand your frustration.

Trust me that I feel it as well.

But we're at an impasse
at this point for this thing

because I don't want to just
say something to placate you

and be wrong.

And I don't know how long
it's gonna take.

I hate it.

It's hard to reconcile

that the people who I worked
so closely with

and shoulder to shoulder with

see me as the enemy now,
see us as the enemy now.

But that is also part of what
we took on when we came here.

- Me being in a room with people

that don't have experience
of being in the system

but work in the system
and have a lot of power

makes me kind of agitated.
You might get the right person

that doesn't initially want
to make the change.

But who knows, some people
do stick to their guns

and fight for change.
A lot of people don't.

A lot of people,
their momentum starts to drift

and they start
to fight less and less.

I don't rely on
any of these systems.

I don't trust them.
It's really hard.

[distant laughter]

[uneasy music]

♪

[indistinct radio chatter]

- You got it.

That overlaps that.
- Yeah.

- Hey. How's it going?
How's it going?

- Hi. Nice to meet you.
- Pernell, good to meet you.

- How you doing?
Good to meet you.

- We get everything here,
PCP, crack, coke.

Some blocks have it all.

You know,
try to hold down those corners.

Right here, Pernell.

This is the specific street
that our captain asked us

to stay
in the area of and patrol.

- [indistinct shout]

- Mm-hmm.

- He just turned,
looked away from us,

and yelled.

- There it is.
[man yelling]

- Something in Spanish,
but basically,

"The cops are coming."

Hundreds of people enter
this block to buy drugs

every day with those kids
out there

playing in the street,
just as you saw.

- Yeah.

- So it's not just
about the drugs.

It's about what comes along
with the drugs.

You know, the violence,
the gunfights.

The same people get in
and out of jail.

And they go right back
to where they're hanging out

and there's no repercussions.

We lock people up,

and then we see
these cases just disappear.

- Never get, like,
one court notice for them.

- As an officer, to me,

that was always one
of those frustrating things.

It's just like,
"Oh, it's the bad stop."

And then they hang up the phone
and you're like,

"Wait, wait.
What's wrong with the stop?"

So when, you know,
the assistant district attorney

gets a case, they look at it,
they're like, "Okay, well,

I feel like this is an issue.
So I'm just gonna drop it."

And they don't say anything
to the officer.

- Yeah.
Because the police officer

thinks that he's done a good job

or a good stop or arrest.

And then, when it disappears,
who knows?

But there's still
the ultimate goal

of putting the bad guy in jail.

[indistinct radio chatter]

[siren wails]

We just got a call

about somebody ODing
in a basement.

[suspenseful music]

[engine revving]

♪

- I think a lot of people
still haven't realized

that the justice system

isn't gonna be able to solve
a lot of these problems.

Police, prosecutors
a lot of times

are charged
with being social workers

and going into these situations.

But there really just isn't time

to deal with problems

that have had weeks, months,
years, decades to form.

- Police!
- Police.

- You got somebody overdose
here in the basement?

- A lot of people
in the system aren't there

because they're evil
or they're bad people.

They're just there because
of their circumstances.

Until we address
those social problems

that we have in this country,
we're not gonna be able

to fully get the criminal
justice system on track.

- Is that what I'm coming
to understand here?

- Well, you know,
that's our mistake.

- Hey, all right.
- Pleasure.

Have a good day.
Thank you.

- It's such a pain in the neck

to deal with reimbursement.
Hey.

- How you doing, sir?
- How are you?

- Pernell Jackson.
Good to meet you, sir.

- Nice to meet you, Pernell.

- Yes, sir.
- You're really short.

- Just a little bit.

- You're killing it
in law school.

- I'm trying to.
I'm trying to, sir.

- Well, you're succeeding
in killing it.

- Thank you, sir.

- So tell me
about going to college,

being a police officer,
tell me about that.

- Yes, sir.

I was in college when September
11th actually occurred.

So I finished the degree,
the wars were still

going strong.

I ended up enlisting
and joined the Army,

spent a year in Afghanistan.
I think, when I started to see

some of the things
that were going on

in terms of police departments
in the country,

especially with people of color,

there was really a desire
to pursue that career

in the sense of,
I can be the person

who can do it the right way,

not just locking people up,
but actually doing the job

the way it's supposed
to be done.

- So you do have
a really interesting

three-dimensional background
in this stuff.

What are we doing wrong?

- As far as criminal
justice, sir?

- Well, what is this office
doing wr...

I know you haven't been here
long, you may not know

everything we're doing.

But is there anything you know
that we are doing

that you think
we are doing wrong?

- I don't know if there's a way
to reach out in terms

of the police department.
And I believe there is,

I think, some kind of training
in terms of what the office

does with the police officers.
But I think if there were a way

to provide
a little more education,

just the basics as far
as reasonable suspicion,

probable cause, I think that's
something that will help,

because, from what I've seen,

there's still a lot
of frustration

with a lot of officers
when they come over,

and there's something that
they've done that they feel

they've done their job.

And I mean, not something
that they've maliciously...

- I understand.

People who thought
what they were doing was okay,

they weren't out
to game the system,

they show up in court,

and then some DAs
who actually know a little bit

about probable cause
and search and seizure say,

"Hey, you can't do that,
so I can't do the case."

- Absolutely.
- They're frustrated

because no one told them
they were doing anything wrong.

They thought they were
following the rules.

I hear that.

It was great
talking to you, Pernell.

- Thank you very much
for your time, sir.

- It was great talking to you.
A real pleasure.

- Good to speak to you.

- What's up, Larry?

- Nice to meet you.
- You all right with me.

- Well, good.
I appreciate that.

- Hey, you all right?

- I appreciate that.
- Hey, you all right with me.

- I have to have a meeting
with the bail funds

about targeting emails
at Lyandra

over cash bail decisions.

- What are they doing?
- They had a weekend campaign

where they phone called
and emailed Lyandra

complaining about cash bail
being set on someone

with what they believe is just
a simple possession case.

But I would like
to try to figure out

a more effective way
for them to...

- Brings things into
our attention.

- Give feedback and... right,
as opposed to have it be,

like, a Twitter thing.

- An angry activist thing.
- Why don't we just have

a meeting with them real quick,
like half an hour meeting

and just say,
"What are you guys gonna do?

"Here's what we're doing.
Let's be nice.

"We know it's urgent
for you guys.

We'll be as responsive
as humanly possible."

- We just had like
three meetings with them.

- There's only a few points
they can target

in the entire system,
and we're clearly one of them.

And we're saying
we're cooperative

to the degree
where we're permitted to be.

- I think the point is, like,
if you're gonna be advocating

to end cash bail,

then you have to be building up
the alternative to it.

So, like, can we release people
to your... your recognizance?

Will you be responsible
24 hours for these individuals?

No, never.

- Do you think they would?
- No.

- But that's at least something
to ask them.

You know, it's, like,
that's a real thing.

- I think that we've been
patient,

like, as a working group,

understanding all of
the different challenges of us

as crazy-ass leftists
or whatever.

But we do want to say that
we're not taking off the table

for ourselves
the idea of publicly saying

that we don't think
that you guys have done enough.

Like, if we put out statements
saying you guys

haven't done enough
because, Larry, when we worked,

engaging with you
as you were running,

when we worked engaging
with you on the transition,

that was something
you asked us to do.

You asked us to do that.
And I just want to remark

that's something
we might end up doing.

- Hey. First of all,
I would never limit

whatever you want
to do in public.

You know, our decisions
have consequences.

Your decisions
have consequences.

Do whatever you think
is appropriate.

- I think, aren't you also
just concerned

that, you know,

the cases where the amount
is really high,

that your district attorneys
are asking for?

- Of course I am.
But one thing that would be

extremely helpful to me
and to us

is not... is to add another layer
to what you're doing.

Not simply to say, "Look, here's

"one of your 25 cases
where you have a presumption,

"it's not an absolute,
it's a presumption,

"that you're not gonna seek bail

"but you sought bail.
Give us that information.

"But give us the other thing,

"which is did the representative

"of the DA's Office in the room
say why?

"Did they say, you know,

"'This is a domestic
violence case where blah,

blah, blah, blah, blah.'"
Then we can much more rapidly

identify violations
of our policy

and also areas where
we could improve the policy.

- If a reason is not given,
we cannot write it down.

- Here's the other thing where
I'm going to push back

a little... wait,
wait, wait a minute.

- I'm not going to be called
to the carpet

on every single case.
We can't be.

- One of the things we should
think about is the people

that's primarily been bailed out

from both bail funds,

if you look at the records,
most of the people,

the failure to appear
is very low, most of them...

- 3%.
- Most of those case are being

dismissed, if not outright,
you know, just beaten.

- Yeah.
- So I think it bodes well

for you to consider,

you know, the work that's
being done by the bail funds,

because if the goal
is to get to justice,

that's actually
what's happening.

- I think there's no question
that the work

that the bail funds have done
is wonderful, absolutely.

But we're at a point now
where the next step is gonna be

even harder than the steps
that we've gotten to for here.

And we need to figure out
what our roles are here.

And if we've reached a point
where we can't collaborate

anymore... I don't
want that to be the case.

But if we reached a point where
we can't collaborate anymore

because there's stuff
that needs to be built

outside of this conversation,

okay, I don't want that
to be the case.

But we've got to... but when
we're talking about resetting

the table, that's what
we're trying to figure out.

- You know, if you need to say
something,

fine, you do whatever
you need to do.

We're gonna use
our legal experience,

legal training, legal skills,
experience in the field,

and we know that you are gonna
use your experience as well.

All right?

It is important that
we're able to talk directly

and express frustrations
to each other.

I'm frustrated.

I know you're frustrated.

And I respect that.

We need to be able
to communicate like that

in order to keep this going.

- I have a lot
of major personal pride

and, like, love
and respect for Larry

and for everyone on that team.

But it's because of the work
that we need to do.

It's because of, like,
the life's work.

But the thing that gives us
the power to sit at that table

is what we can do
in the street, I think.

- That's what got Larry
into office,

you know, to be honest.

And that's what people said
to him when he got into office.

I know, there are friends
of mine up against the law,

and that's what we said
to Larry, just like, "Oh, yeah.

"We will be outside
of your house,

picketing, if you mess up."

You know,
so this is like a reminder

that that's what got you there.

This is what's
gonna be behind you

and also pushing you
throughout your tenure.

And this is what you'll have
to answer to as well.

So for me, it was just, like,
less of a threat

and more of a reminder of, like,

who you're sitting
at the table with.

- Okay.
- Oh, no. Like this.

- I don't know what to do.
- I was like, "What is this?"

- One, two, three.
- Go team!

[talking indistinctly]

- We came here to bring change.

And we did not come here
to bring glacial change

or to be patient with a system

that should have been fixed
a long time ago.

The activist has
a prophetic voice.

They articulate
our highest aspirations.

You are always gonna have
some people

who think you're not
far right enough,

others who think
you're not far left enough.

Progressive prosecution
is different

than what some people
imagine it to be.

Today, there will be
100 new cases

in the city of Philadelphia,
and a lot of them

will be very violent cases
and will be serious cases,

and something has to be done
about them now.

♪

I have spent
a lot of time in jails,

not as someone
who was a defendant,

but as someone who was hearing
the life stories of people.

The work tells you a lot
about what's possible

and what is not possible.

Is it possible for us
to eliminate prisons and jails

in my lifetime
in the United States?

No.

Is it possible for us
to reimagine them

in a way that is rehabilitative
instead of punitive?

Yes, it is.
It takes time.

And you have to work
with the art of the possible

instead of simply expecting
absolutely everything

to be your way right now.

Movements progress,
and they change.

The younger generation
steps on the shoulders

of the last generations and say,

"This is how
you could have done better.

You didn't do enough.
You should have done more."

That's how it's supposed to be.

[electronic music]

♪

[birds chirping]

[indistinct chatter]

- But the other part is like,

I'm sure there's gonna be
things that...

♪

- How you doing today?
- Good.

- This is a very
significant day for you.

It's the first day
of your new career

and the beginning
of your professional life.

But it's also a very
significant day for us.

You are the first class
of new DAs

that was 100% selected by us.

You are each here

because you wanted to be
in this DA's office,

not just any
prosecutor's office,

but you wanted to be here
in Philadelphia.

Mark this day on your calendar

as one of the most important
days of your life.

It certainly is one of mine
as well. Welcome.

[applause]

♪

- There are moments in history

that are bigger than all of us.

And participating in that moment

without knowing the outcome
is the important part.

- There has been this phenomena

of elevating
the progressive prosecutor

as the savior
of the justice system.

We are not saviors.
We are not saviors.

- The attorneys will now
be sworn in

as assistant district attorneys.

- We've been doin' this work
for decades.

We're always trying to undo
500 years of racism.

The only thing I can say is,
we have a lot more work to do.

- All rise.

- We can't learn
all the lessons here

in the Krasner administration.

All we've done
is cracked the ice

and opened things up
a little bit.

- Raise your right hand
and repeat after me.

I do solemnly swear or affirm...

all: I do solemnly swear
or affirm...

- I will support
the Constitution

of the United States...

all: I will support
the Constitution

of the United States...

- And the Constitution of the
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

all: And the Constitution

of the Commonwealth
of Pennsylvania.

I will maintain the respect

due to courts of justice
and judicial officers.

I will not counsel or maintain
any suit or proceeding

which shall appear to me to be
unjust with truth and honor,

and will never seek
to mislead the judge or jury

by any artifice or false
statement of fact or law.

I will never reject the cause

of the defenseless or oppressed.

- Congratulations.

[applause]

- Hey, hey, hey.

- He was the first person
we hired.

- Wow.

- Did you know that?
- I didn't know.

I didn't know.
I was trying to get there.

I was trying
to get there, though.

- He was the very first person
we hired for this class.

And he's just outstanding.

And we're looking forward
to his bright future.

- Thank you.

What exactly is
the system here to do?

We're the ones to say,
"This is what prosecution

is going to be."
I'm just not sure

what we'll see
when we get to the other side.

But I mean, certainly, it's
gonna be different than it was.

- If you want to talk
about when is this movement

gonna get to the point
where it's won major battles,

in my mind,
it will be another 20 years.

And this will be one step

on what is a long path
to get there.

[stirring music]

♪

- [chanting] Say his name!
- George Floyd!

- Say his name!
- George Floyd!

- Say his name!
- George Floyd!

- Say his name!
- George Floyd!

- Say his name!
- George Floyd!

- Say his name!
- George Floyd!

- Say his name!
- George Floyd!

- ♪ Hang on every day,
yeah hey ♪

♪ Hang on in there, mama

- Protestors took action

tearing down memorials

to the country's racist history.

- The city of Philadelphia

has removed the statue

of former Mayor Frank Rizzo

overnight.

Many Philadelphians say
that the statue represents

racism and police brutality.

- It sends a message
that change is coming.

- ♪ Hang on every day

♪ Hang on, mama, mama

♪ Hang on every day

♪ We got to

♪ Hang on every day

♪ Yeah, hang on,
hang on baby ♪