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"All the ambitious ones
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became Nazis."
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That's what the old man said.
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That's his explanation, or excuse.
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No matter,
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each day I see
the results of that ambition.
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Put the gun to your neck, please.
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Hold it far away.
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It should be hard to do.
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Push your shoulders back.
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Look into the camera.
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Drop your arm.
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OUR NAZI
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That's Filbert,
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his passport picture from 1937.
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Alfred Filbert, doctor of law.
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Like Thomas says,
he's done it all:
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deputy chief of foreign intelligence,
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00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,198
head of a
mobile killing unit in Russia,
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chief of the security police in Lithuania,
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00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,631
high official of
the criminal police in Germany.
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Then he lived quietly until 1962,
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when a German court
sentenced him to life imprisonment
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for the murder
of 11,449 Jewish citizens.
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00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,794
15 years later, in 1977
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he was released
because of poor health.
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Now, here on the shooting stage
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he's an actor
directed by Thomas Harlan.
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Thomas hired him as an actor
30
00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,423
because Thomas knows
the Nazi past too well
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00:02:45,640 --> 00:02:48,712
to let just any actor play a part
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00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:51,742
that only a real professional can play.
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00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,556
Thomas Harlan knows
his job and his subject.
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00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,300
His father, Veit Harlan,
was a protégé of Goebbels.
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00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,228
Veit Harlan was also a movie director.
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00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,114
He was a star of Nazi cinema.
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00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,673
Like Thomas says:
each of them in their way,
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00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:19,904
Filbert and my father went through it all
without ever really understanding.
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00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,664
And nobody can deny it!
40
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,618
The old man got a good contract:
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00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,789
150,000 French francs
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to play himself in a dangerous role.
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00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,992
"A Nazi is interrogated
by his kidnappers."
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00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,027
I kept my eyes glued to the camera
45
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I had to try to see everything
46
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since my ears were little help.
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I mean,
hardly any of us spoke German.
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And in the beginning
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00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,549
it seemed like
we were studying history.
50
00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:11,264
I watched Thomas and Filbert
locked in their common past.
51
00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,024
But after a while
52
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I wasn't able to tell
the past from the present.
53
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There's the curious one.
54
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Can he tell me the story of his scars?
55
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Tell me when to start.
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00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,426
When I was a student
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I joined
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00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,298
a student organization.
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00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:08,879
To be a member
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00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:14,314
you had to fight six duels.
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Try and mix the two.
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00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:23,030
When you lower light One,
raise the other.
63
00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,823
That way we see the light change.
64
00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:27,989
Get ready!
65
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You blew it!
- I'll try again.
66
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,179
Lower One.
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00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,579
Bring up Two... it looks better.
68
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,354
Turn up Four, lower Two.
69
00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,157
We've got to mix them more.
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00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,588
This bone's split.
71
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,660
Here's another splintered bone.
72
00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,341
They covered it with leather
for the next fight,
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00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,952
the doctor said I could get killed.
74
00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:21,146
Sure, dueling seems dumb!
75
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,436
But when you
live through it yourself...
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00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,314
I was a sensitive young man then,
77
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:34,220
it did me good,
it strengthened me.
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00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,315
You learn to keep going
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00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,992
even through blood if necessary
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00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,305
right to the end...
81
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,033
When I met Filbert
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00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,384
not quite a year ago
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00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,632
he didn't remind me of my father,
but he shared
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00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,676
the same history as my father.
85
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,860
Both had lived with power,
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00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,151
a really immense power.
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00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,752
I met him while preparing my movie.
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00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,741
He resembled the hero,
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whose part I was writing.
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00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,920
It wasn't until our first meetings,
91
00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,636
when I felt his nostalgia
for the old Nazi times,
92
00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,797
and his reverence
93
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,714
for my father, that I realized
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to what extent
the executions at Vilna
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00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,396
and the crushing of Lithuania,
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00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,059
which Filbert had planned,
97
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:45,957
were related to
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00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,876
German cinema of that period.
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It went right through.
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00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,702
It hit my teeth through the lip.
101
00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,278
It was really ugly.
102
00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:05,987
It had to be sewn up.
A friend did it,
103
00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,784
just a medical student,
not a real doctor.
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00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,823
He sewed it up.
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00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,902
He did a good job.
106
00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,783
Like they used to darn socks.
107
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So they let me join the organization.
108
00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,744
I never thought of dueling again.
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You're going to start?
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00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:36,637
I'm starting.
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00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:49,263
So, my childhood
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00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,633
and my student years
were the best years of my life.
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00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,956
But all the ambitions ones
became Nazis.
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00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,157
My father never understood:
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00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,266
after the war he was accused
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00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,872
of war crimes.
The Allied Control Council had a law
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00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,829
used to judge intellectuals
who incited
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00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,749
other people to murder.
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00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,716
He was acquitted twice
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00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,140
by German courts,
after the Nuremberg trials.
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00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,264
What struck me most
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00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,756
about my father's trial
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00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,476
was that the judge himself
124
00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,543
was a criminal.
His name was Budde.
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00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:20,918
He had ordered
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00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,197
the execution of a Ukrainian girl
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00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,916
for robbery,
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00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,640
for stealing a scarf during an air raid.
129
00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,706
Budde, judge of the Hamburg court,
acquitted
130
00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,069
my father,
as did the court at Cologne.
131
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,701
At the time people thought:
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00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,719
"Such a great artist
could not be guilty
133
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,515
of crimes that
only SS soldiers had committed."
134
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,160
You don't look very satisfied.
- No.
135
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,345
I want him harsh.
136
00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,111
Add the One.
137
00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,077
That's possible too.
138
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,260
Maybe it's a little too harsh.
139
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,437
Can you soften the light?
140
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,664
Lower the One, it's too strong.
141
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:25,420
I don't want him to look like
he's wearing a death mask.
142
00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:30,237
I can't tell
if the lighting's too cruel:
143
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:37,143
I want a non-light,
as if shooting hasn't started yet.
144
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,835
It's finished?
- Ask him to lower his hands.
145
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,226
Do you mind
lowering your hands, please?
146
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,992
A few weeks before he died
147
00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:59,115
my father asked me to see him.
148
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,557
He lived in Italy.
149
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,459
He asked me to let him die
150
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,384
beside me.
And he did.
151
00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:16,717
In Italy
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00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,025
on an island called Capri.
153
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,301
I've looked for his grave,
but it's gone.
154
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,197
I don't know.
155
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,719
I looked around,
but we couldn't find it,
156
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,230
nor could the gravediggers.
157
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,379
I asked my brother,
he didn't know either.
158
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,997
Your grandchildren's names?
159
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,437
What are their names?
160
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,520
What are
your grandchildren's names?
161
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,197
Their names!
162
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,505
Of my grandchildren?
163
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,621
Why?
164
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,516
I have three grandchildren.
165
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,224
One in Berlin and two in Stuttgart.
166
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:32,638
But
167
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,539
I don't know their names.
168
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,277
Electricians!
169
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,359
We've got to change the lights,
170
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,594
to get a different effect on the face.
171
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,919
Lower the Four
172
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,660
and give me a lateral light.
173
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,998
Good, cut Two.
174
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,980
"All my life I've been fascinated
by law courts.
175
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,238
Four things always interest me in a city:
176
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,628
public gardens, the market,
the cemetery, the law courts.
177
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,265
But now I know from experience
178
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,996
that listening
to judgments being made
179
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,157
is different from making them.
180
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,103
In court,
you still believe in judging,
181
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,836
as in the hard times,
when Christ's voice came."
182
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:46,793
That's good.
183
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,948
We recorded it.
184
00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:58,861
But I can't speak French.
185
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,418
I haven't had French since school.
186
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,957
You understand?
187
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,000
When I describe my mother
188
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,309
I realize I owe her everything.
189
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,590
My mother was so hard-working!
190
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,862
But I have to say
how beautiful she was.
191
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,590
Always well dressed,
she made her clothes,
192
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,701
and the children's too.
193
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,676
My father had to go back to school.
194
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:45,875
He came from the country and
he had to learn things all over again,
195
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,664
while we were learning them.
196
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,503
He moves me because he brings up
197
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,677
a very personal story,
198
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,440
my political story with Germany.
199
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,026
And I know lots of old men like him!
200
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,780
As a human being, how can you
feel sympathetic towards him
201
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,344
and forget what he's done?
202
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,665
I can't understand that!
203
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,679
Do you think I forget what he's done?
204
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,226
I watch your relationship with him,
205
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:22,420
and it... it...
206
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,711
Disgusts you?
- Yes! Yes!
207
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:32,579
To touch this person makes me...
208
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,357
I can't find the word.
It disgusts me!
209
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,554
I come home
and wash my hands 20 times
210
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,981
to make sure nothing stayed on them.
211
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,340
I smell my hands as if...
212
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,941
It's psychological,
but that's how it is.
213
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,480
But I'll stay to the end
'cause I hear many things.
214
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,820
I hear what people say.
215
00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,795
It's not loyalty to Thomas
that keeps me here,
216
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,358
it's because of what I hear
and how it helps me.
217
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,341
You can begin.
218
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,341
I was born in Darmstadt
on September 8, 1905.
219
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:32,504
My father was Peter, from Odenwald.
My mother was Christiane, from Heidelberg.
220
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,078
What was the prison term
you got in 1960-61?
221
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,864
How was the sentence worded?
- Life imprisonment.
222
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,823
The year you joined
the Party and the SS?
223
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:48,193
1930... 1932.
224
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,625
You came to Berlin in...?
225
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,184
In 1935.
226
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,108
You became
a lieutenant in the SS in...?
227
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,397
1936.
228
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,550
You became deputy chief of the Reich
229
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,036
Counter-Intelligence Service in...?
230
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,504
November 1st, 19...
231
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,309
1939.
232
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:28,064
You commanded a mobile killing unit,
Einsatzgruppe, Commando 9,
233
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,237
from what date?
234
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,238
19...
235
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:35,862
1941.
236
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,754
The approximate date?
237
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,637
Just before the war started.
238
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,625
With the Soviet Union?
- With the Soviet Union.
239
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,900
When was the
Commando sent to fight in Russia?
240
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,719
After...
241
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,237
After the war began?
242
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,033
Of course.
243
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,197
Or at the start?
244
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,063
I was sent to Russia.
245
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,385
I recall it was
246
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,752
after my brother
made his remark about Hitler.
247
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:18,070
No, not your personal history:
the date in terms of the war.
248
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,513
The invasion of Russia
began on June 22nd?
249
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:28,663
You were in Warsaw?
- That's when I left my office
250
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,397
to become head
of a commando in Warsaw.
251
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:38,959
What was its name?
- Special Action Commando 9.
252
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,380
Of the Security Police?
- The Security Police
253
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,637
and the Intelligence Service.
254
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,218
Who was head of B-Division?
255
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,389
The Chief of Criminal Police,
Arthur Nebe.
256
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,837
I can't.
257
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,357
What do you think?
258
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,157
It'd be mean, no?
259
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,620
I can barely hear.
260
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,037
You hear when I speak?
261
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,178
So it's the right sound level.
262
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:14,061
Please begin.
- It was when Heydrich left
263
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,301
that I first heard
that Hitler had ordered
264
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,788
the killing of all Jews.
265
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:28,465
I had...
266
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:33,479
Excuse me,
but your hesitation won't look good here.
267
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,387
Take it again.
268
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,298
It was when Heydrich left
that I first heard
269
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,310
that Hitler had ordered
the killing of all Jews.
270
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,797
In...
271
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,639
In Warsaw...
272
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:56,266
I was with Nebe at the casino.
I asked him:
273
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,622
"How can one imagine such a thing?"
274
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,620
He said: "I was an
engineer corps officer in World War I.
275
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,464
You just put the people
in a house and blow it up!"
276
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,832
I asked:
"Who'll get all those
277
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,309
badly wounded people out?"
278
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,993
"It'll all work out in the end,"
Nebe said.
279
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,635
That's what he said.
280
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,988
And I thought:
"What can I do about it?"
281
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,218
Then, one Sunday
282
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,559
partisans attacked our headquarters.
283
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,185
I reported the attack
to Berlin right away
284
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,909
so that I'd be covered.
285
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,952
I received the order from Berlin
286
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:09,586
telling us to kill 300 hostages.
- Look at us, please.
287
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,838
Then I... I...
288
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,631
Look at the camera, please.
289
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,480
I was given this order from...
290
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,876
Look into the camera.
- the general:
291
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,585
and therefore
292
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,101
I ordered the execution of
293
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,738
about 20 Jews in Vilna.
294
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,076
Look left to the camera.
295
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,580
Look left to the camera.
296
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,470
The other camera.
- To my right.
297
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,983
And then I...
298
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,780
You can imagine
how disturbed my men were
299
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,220
after these executions,
300
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,504
even though this was little
compared to what happened later.
301
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:19,219
I'm sure I'd have even walked home
if I could have.
302
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,039
But our orders stated:
303
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,039
"I swear to you Adolf Hitler,
304
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,618
as Fuhrer and Chancellor of the Reich,
305
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,548
loyalty and courage till death.
306
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:39,863
I swear to you,
and to all the authorities set above me,
307
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,151
to be faithful and brave,
308
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,738
and to follow your orders.
309
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:50,738
I swear...
310
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,419
I swear this to you,
so help me God."
311
00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:00,501
If someone in the SS
312
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,755
fails to execute these orders,
313
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,236
he will be severely punished,
314
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,104
as will all the members of his family.
315
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,019
Can we keep shooting?
316
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,311
No more film.
- No more film?
317
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,458
Not even for the clap.
318
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,114
I wanted to film the text...
319
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,357
All this happened
320
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,780
only because
we had become a dictatorship.
321
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,541
Reported to Berlin
322
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,343
and to division
323
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,756
so I'd be covered.
324
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,792
Adolf Hitler, I swear to you
325
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,825
loyalty and courage till death.
326
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,111
I swear to you,
327
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,797
and to all
the authorities set above me,
328
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,029
to be faithful and brave,
329
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,437
so help me God.
330
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,309
If anyone
331
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,797
in the SS
332
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:45,829
fails to execute these orders
333
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,350
he will be severely punished,
334
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,110
as will all the members of his family.
335
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:59,144
I said, I only heard about
the gas chambers later.
336
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:01,500
I didn't hear of them in Russia.
337
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,098
Later I heard that Nebe
338
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,618
invented the gas chamber:
339
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,036
he had them built by Rauff.
340
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:15,114
We should have had bigger close-ups.
341
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,824
So I have a request...
342
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,431
We were very close.
- A request!
343
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,063
It doesn't matter if he's in profile.
344
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,637
Put him close to the photo?
345
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,504
Then you can go
from big face to big photo...
346
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,476
And now I'll give you
the rhythm you need.
347
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,798
I'll set the timing
with the questions.
348
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,550
I did it badly before:
I got too excited.
349
00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:51,355
Camera!
- I don't want to incriminate anyone...
350
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,598
Action!
- behind their backs.
351
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,020
But if someone
352
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,551
did me a dirty turn,
I would say so.
353
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,071
I can read you a report:
354
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,705
Nebe takes personal responsibility
355
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,319
for blowing up the hospital patients
and Jews of Mogilev.
356
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,343
Nebe did it.
Widmann criticizes him
357
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,985
for the way he did it.
358
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,955
When I asked Nebe:
359
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,959
"How can anyone
carry out such an order?"
360
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,619
He said: "Put them in a house
and blow them up."
361
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,036
But I don't know that he did it.
362
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,197
It hurts to talk about this?
363
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:41,221
Why?
- It hurts me because...
364
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,519
I'm German!
365
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,260
And I'm sorry we're still
366
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,551
talking about all this today.
367
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,269
40 years have gone by.
368
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:03,021
How can I tell
if what I say is 100% true?
369
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,157
I take responsibility for what I say...
370
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,024
but I can't answer
for what others did.
371
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,397
We're slow today.
372
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,557
We've had film problems,
373
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,754
and we want to take a break now.
374
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,590
How long a break do you need?
375
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,189
Five minutes.
376
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,826
So we'll begin in an hour and a half.
377
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,997
You look tired, please rest.
378
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,343
I have no space to work here!
379
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,200
There's been such suffering today!
380
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,386
Who's responsible for my desk?
381
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,580
The light's been changed.
382
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,304
I can't read, I make noise.
Why is this?
383
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,019
I have so much saliva in my mouth.
384
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,709
We're taking a break
385
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,992
so you don't have to make him up.
386
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,517
How are you?
387
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,437
It gets to him:
so how worn down he is?
388
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,464
He says he's sorry
389
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,146
the crew doesn't understand German.
Be he's lucky!
390
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,159
This film couldn't
be made in West Germany.
391
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,307
In East Germany they'd stone him.
392
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,477
Where I live, anyway.
393
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,428
When you grasp what he's saying,
394
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,597
it drives you crazy!
395
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,781
At least while he's saying it.
396
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,391
Then filming stops
and I see this broken old man.
397
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,548
But did you hear
the ugly things he says?
398
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,320
How he talks about Russia!
399
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,904
But I can't let myself argue.
400
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,784
I just think:
"The bill's adding up, and you'll pay!"
401
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,630
That's how Hertz feels:
on the last day of shooting
402
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,514
he's going to tell him he's from Israel.
403
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,714
And all that was important
404
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,424
depended on me.
405
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,380
In the police?
- In the security police.
406
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,230
All operations with border residents.
407
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,235
Can you show us
the organization of your department?
408
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,394
Just write A-B-C-D...
409
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,425
Finish writing...
410
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,154
Please stand up.
411
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,789
Sit down in the chair.
412
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,117
Can you speak?
413
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,158
Don't talk about what just happened,
don't allude to it.
414
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,144
When did your brother die?
415
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,156
Where did your brother die?
416
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,031
When did your brother die?
417
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,305
Where did your brother die?
418
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,836
My brother was
in a concentration camp: Buchenwald.
419
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,078
He was reported missing.
420
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,072
Who killed him?
- Thank you very much.
421
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,472
We're taking a break.
I hope you didn't hurt yourself.
422
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,037
An important request!
423
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:34,400
Get a photo of anyone
who came into the frame!
424
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,753
Those who came into the frame
425
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,940
must not leave!
426
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,792
I feel responsible for him,
427
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,954
whether I like it or not.
428
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:22,393
Even if I feel this responsibility...
429
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,718
as something very heavy,
430
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,059
we're responsible for him!
431
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,716
What was your name in 1945?
432
00:34:41,240 --> 00:34:43,197
Nothing.
433
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,661
Was your section
responsible for Russia?
434
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,396
No.
- Your brother committed suicide?
435
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,639
No.
- Who killed your brother?
436
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,820
I don't know.
437
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,192
You visited him?
- I went to see him.
438
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,859
You visited him?
- It was forbidden, but I did.
439
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,630
At Sachsenhausen?
- No, before his trial...
440
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,663
I visited him in prison.
441
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,837
But never at Buchenwald?
- No.
442
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,316
He died at Buchenwald.
443
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,820
Why?
444
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,509
No idea.
- Who killed him?
445
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,756
I don't know.
- When did he die?
446
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,553
I don't know.
447
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,185
Weren't you punished
because of your brother?
448
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,546
Didn't you pay for others' crimes?
449
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:43,541
I'm aware of that.
- Why did you assume others' guilt?
450
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:50,154
At your trial, why did you spare
the members of the army?
451
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,742
To aid my fatherland.
452
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,909
It's obvious you were punished
because of your brother.
453
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,316
In what year did he die?
454
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,989
No idea.
He was reported missing.
455
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,397
Who disappears in Buchenwald?
456
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,197
"He's missing."
That's what they told my family.
457
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,468
He died in Buchenwald.
Imagine what they did to him.
458
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,071
How can one go missing from a camp?
You're locked up.
459
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,342
Who vanishes from jail?
- I can't verify it.
460
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,678
As a lawyer I can only accept facts,
461
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,760
or what I've seen myself.
I don't know about anything else...
462
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,306
Nobody ever disappeared from a camp.
463
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,598
How can someone
go missing in prison?
464
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,946
A prison's not
a concentration camp.
465
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:54,064
Perhaps he escaped.
- Look to your right, into the camera.
466
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,957
Maybe he escaped.
467
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,832
You were punished for what he said.
468
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,670
So was he.
Obviously they killed him.
469
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,190
Don't you know they killed him?
470
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,825
You imagine he died of illness?
Impossible!
471
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,501
During my trial there were many things
I didn't know about.
472
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:17,393
It was only later...
473
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,984
Did you love your brother deeply?
474
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,784
In Russia,
did you think about your brother:
475
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,624
what had happened to him?
Was he still alive?
476
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,517
I thought about him.
477
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:40,029
He'd been in prison two years...
478
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:42,197
Message for Jimmy!
479
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,279
Move the camera around his head!
480
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,389
Sorry. Speaking French to the cameraman...
Just instructions...
481
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,662
Didn't you find it astounding?
Just tell me in one sentence...
482
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,394
It certainly made me think.
483
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,877
I'm in a delicate situation.
484
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:11,029
I'm not sure what I'm doing or why.
485
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,110
So... so I decided to leave.
486
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,671
Thomas wanted
to talk to me about it.
487
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,499
Last night he told me
488
00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:32,556
I was wrong to leave,
that he was starting to do
489
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,194
what he wanted to from the start,
490
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,698
and that it would be interesting.
491
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,982
In an article Tunnat wrote:
492
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,546
"Waiting to die,
the victims sang and prayed."
493
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,037
This happened in Lithuania.
494
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:56,665
"Waiting to die they sang and prayed."
Did you see this?
495
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:58,382
Yes.
496
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,231
You heard this?
497
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:08,236
Can you describe it?
- I didn't hear what Tunnat heard.
498
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,750
I heard it my way.
499
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,759
These poor people
500
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,429
were always talking to God
501
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,678
while waiting to die.
502
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,430
According to Tunnat,
who isn't nasty towards these people,
503
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,520
"The women were executed
in their underwear."
504
00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:34,840
That's what happened?
- I can't say. I never saw it myself.
505
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,795
But it's possible Tunnat did.
506
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,427
Men had to take off their jackets,
women had to take off their dresses.
507
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,020
Is that true?
You never saw that?
508
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,629
The women were in underwear.
509
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,391
And the men?
510
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,433
They were in...
I don't want to talk about this now.
511
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,628
You don't?
512
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,676
I'm rather upset.
513
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,064
Here's something interesting.
514
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,621
The sound's on?
515
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,420
I have here
516
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,758
a report from the Gestapo,
517
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,917
the original,
518
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,466
and here is something I didn't know:
519
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,754
when Filbert's unit, Commando 9,
arrived in Grodno,
520
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:39,594
which was in Poland
near the Lithuanian border,
521
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:46,706
Filbert took command
522
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,543
of the Lithuanian soldiers,
523
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,707
and began the massacres
from the first day:
524
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,746
93 Jewish intellectuals etc.,
525
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,917
with the Lithuanians.
526
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,818
This is in contradiction
to what he's said.
527
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,501
Here it is in his own words!
The original!
528
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,378
Mr. Sunshine!
529
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,879
See you later.
- See you later.
530
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:11,349
There was a German prosecutor
named Neumann, in Paris during the war.
531
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,074
He must've rendered judgments here.
532
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,463
I wasn't in Paris during the war.
533
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,144
I was in the south.
534
00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:38,358
In the South you were better off!
535
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,580
You're well?
- Very well.
536
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,426
I don't recognize her!
537
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,919
He wants Thomas. Maybe you can
get him to his dressing room?
538
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,117
He won't go.
539
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,269
You come with me to your dressing room?
- No.
540
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,236
I'm waiting for Mr. Harlan.
541
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,114
He'll meet us there.
542
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,387
My twin!
- How are you?
543
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,103
My twin!
- Please don't harp on about that.
544
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,036
How are you?
- Very well!
545
00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:59,906
Even better than before.
- What's he say?
546
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,945
I've become colder toward him,
547
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,743
while accepting that he lives,
548
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,338
and not wanting him to be harmed.
549
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,839
I'd be pleased if he went home
550
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,583
with some self-awareness.
551
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,918
I'm sure it won't ever happen.
552
00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:26,394
But I've changed:
553
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,594
there's nothing that stops me
from being nice to him.
554
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,157
I have a fury
555
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,781
so complete...
556
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,299
I can even eat with him again.
557
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,745
Before, that was hard.
558
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,120
Now it's not a problem.
559
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,233
I looked at myself in the mirror
560
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,070
and I saw I would
always treat him like a man.
561
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,875
I'm not obliged to do otherwise.
562
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,464
He and my father are the same.
563
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,502
Except I found my father sympathetic.
I loved him.
564
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:05,677
Filbert doesn't move me.
565
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,157
His old-world graciousness is touching.
566
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,460
He's polite,
567
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,798
but I know who he respects
and who he doesn't.
568
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,757
I wouldn't want to be
569
00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:21,197
the person
570
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,800
who insulted the Nazis during the war!
571
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,037
You could talk to my father.
572
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:34,581
He never persecuted anyone.
But being nice doesn't mean much.
573
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,557
Generosity is a character trait
574
00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:42,790
that has little to do
with the system you live in.
575
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,589
He could be my father.
I'm making a film about my father,
576
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,356
We're all working together
577
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,382
on a movie
about this kind of father:
578
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,390
They persist,
they aren't throwbacks,
579
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,557
they aren't fossils.
580
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,138
They still threaten us.
581
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,550
Young people
will recognize their fathers
582
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,473
and know their father's
plot against them.
583
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,991
So many say,
"My father won't talk!"
584
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:19,224
They don't want to be such a son,
585
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,420
and they may die of that,
of not having a father.
586
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,799
The fathers
never told what happened.
587
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,310
Few kids know their father
588
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,557
as I know mine.
It was hard.
589
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:37,478
Did you know there was
Jewish slave labor
590
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,663
whose job was
to empty the mass graves
591
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,520
before being executed themselves?
592
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,396
Did you know
there's only one photo
593
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,101
of this Jewish work crew
594
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,148
who were commanded
595
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:05,463
by SS officers?
596
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,358
Do you know this is
the only photo that exists
597
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,632
of this Jewish slave labor crew?
598
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,987
Who are these men here?
599
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:32,298
The ones in the snow,
how would you describe them?
600
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,946
They were the gravediggers
called shadows
601
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,141
in the slang of SS unit 1005.
602
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,706
They dug up the dead
and fed the bones
603
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,503
into this bone-grinder.
604
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,950
This machine crushed the bones
605
00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:54,823
from the mass graves.
606
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,270
This is a bone-grinder.
607
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,629
Please repeat this name:
bone-grinder.
608
00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:07,393
Bone-grinder.
609
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:20,546
I don't understand.
- I told them you were upset
610
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,320
by these stories.
We all need a break.
611
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,557
And how!
612
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,156
There's hard work to come.
613
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:31,560
Horrible!
614
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,310
That's why we
spend so long on such things.
615
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,317
What those bastards did!
616
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,477
We'll change the subjects.
617
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:52,594
Here's the only photo
of the Jewish work crew from Kulmhof,
618
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,187
who had to dig up the dead
and put them into this machine.
619
00:48:57,720 --> 00:49:01,350
The machine ground them
into bone-flour.
620
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:05,554
This flour was sold
to a fish farm at Auschwitz,
621
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:10,677
and those carp
ate bone-flour from all Russia.
622
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,220
Flour from five million humans
623
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,353
went to a man at Auschwitz.
He's still alive.
624
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,258
He owns a chain of laundromats
625
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,797
around Lake Constance.
626
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:28,239
He's named Caesar.
He raised the carp at Auschwitz,
627
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,143
feeding them bone-flour.
628
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,858
At Kulmhof
it was dumped in the river.
629
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,640
Elsewhere it was put in sacks:
630
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,514
the best food
for the new race of carp
631
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:43,418
that Himmler
was raising at Auschwitz.
632
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,744
Very upset by such stories,
he said:
633
00:49:53,960 --> 00:50:00,275
"Stop talking about those bastards
and what they did to me!"
634
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,638
Tomorrow we'll talk tulips
or Mona Lisa,
635
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:08,198
about his brother, his drawings,
we'll relax a little.
636
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,589
How good to see clear!
637
00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:15,380
We're on our way!
638
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,184
There he was and I loved him.
639
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:23,560
I didn't know then
640
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,157
who I loved.
641
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,068
Maybe I don't know even today.
642
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,185
My father was so charming.
643
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,222
Last night two people said to me:
644
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,909
"How can you be so cruel
645
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,033
to that old man
who trusts you so?"
646
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,664
Why did my father,
who was so charming, never see
647
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:49,258
that Lublin wasn't so charming?
648
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,276
The ghetto was "charming!"
649
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,517
That was just too much!
650
00:50:55,720 --> 00:50:58,155
I can't accept that he was happy.
651
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,986
That's what happened
yesterday on the set:
652
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,745
Filbert was feeling his pleasure
653
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,237
at being alive.
654
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:17,901
At certain moments
happiness is contemptible.
655
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,106
It's the highest form
of insensitivity.
656
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,997
No charm cancels
the stupidity of that happiness.
657
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,068
When shot,
they fell into the trench?
658
00:51:35,240 --> 00:51:38,039
The people fell on top of each other?
659
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,354
They fell on top of each other.
660
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,110
They fell backwards
661
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,277
into the grave
662
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,620
and they fell on top of each other.
663
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,993
Please look to your right.
Who do you see in the TV?
664
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,437
Myself.
665
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,670
Look into the camera.
666
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,554
What is the movie on the TV?
667
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,477
You know this movie?
668
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,020
It's called "Immensee".
669
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:20,631
Who directed it?
- The director was Veit Harlan.
670
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:22,547
Tell me:
671
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,115
Where was your HQ attacked?
672
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:28,478
In Vilna.
673
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,099
In Vilna.
674
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:35,997
It was a NKWD building before that,
675
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,305
it was a huge old place.
676
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,438
Try holding the gun like this.
677
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,340
It isn't loaded, is it?
678
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:35,997
Like this?
679
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:39,738
And what did the judge say
680
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,159
when he sentenced me?
681
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,478
That if I had killed even one Jew...
682
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:52,233
I said "No! I didn't do it...
I wasn't even there."
683
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:56,355
The judge said
that killing even one Jew
684
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,439
was murder
and would get me prison for life.
685
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:01,597
That's how it is.
686
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:06,192
So a lot of people
must be doing life terms!
687
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,381
All the Berlin police.
- Many others too.
688
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,547
The cops could
direct traffic in jail.
689
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,879
We can talk more tomorrow.
690
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,505
Last night you were late for dinner,
691
00:55:21,720 --> 00:55:26,181
and now you have to
get your make-up off
692
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:28,710
if you want to be on time.
693
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:30,900
Sorry.
694
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,024
Who's that for?
- For Dr. S.
695
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:55,957
For him!
696
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:59,551
You got to the point
of giving him flowers!
697
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:01,900
They're not from me.
698
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,396
You didn't buy them for me?
699
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,185
What's with these flowers?
700
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:14,000
Thomas had them sent in,
701
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:19,539
to make things pleasant.
It's S's birthday today.
702
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:23,797
There's even a big cake over there.
703
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,717
He puts down the coffee cup.
704
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:41,039
You decide if he drinks his coffee,
blows the candles.
705
00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:43,983
And after he's seated,
706
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:47,079
there's a traveling shot back.
707
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,598
So the questioning starts
708
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,821
as the camera withdraws.
709
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,699
He puts his coffee aside:
710
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:01,038
the image must show a transition
711
00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:03,744
from pleasure to starting work.
712
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:36,236
Why's he doing that to me?
713
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,875
Why are you doing this?
- What?
714
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,151
Robert asks why you do this?
715
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:43,636
It's joke time!
716
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:45,797
Just for fun.
717
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,556
I'll whisper the rest in your ear.
718
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,946
Like polite guests,
we'll be quiet,
719
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,793
then our talk will begin.
- And my voice level?
720
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,196
Soft as possible.
721
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:04,303
As soft as
your courage and strength permit.
722
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:08,397
We can start.
723
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,032
Please don't show any surprise.
724
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:44,754
Begin with the phrase
"I was born on..."
725
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,938
I was born
on September 8th, 1905.
726
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,983
The German court sentenced you to?
727
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,436
Life imprisonment.
728
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:01,873
The word "liquidation"?
729
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,266
What does
"liquidation of German-ness" mean?
730
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,585
I don't know.
731
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:09,837
What is "German-ness"?
732
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:14,637
"German-ness" is obvious.
It's when one thinks,
733
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,150
feels and acts as a German.
734
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:21,149
Another word for
"physical liquidation of the enemy"?
735
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:24,671
I don't know.
I don't know this expression.
736
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,271
What does
"liquidation of Polish identity" mean?
737
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,949
This has nothing to do with me!
738
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:36,636
I'm showing Robert the ones you like.
739
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:39,583
Why?
- Because he's interested too.
740
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,070
Oh yeah?
- You don't want me to?
741
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:44,873
No.
742
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:48,820
Robert can't see them?
743
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:50,997
He can see them later.
744
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,113
What's he say?
- "Robert looks at the photos after."
745
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,267
Okay,
you can look at the pictures later.
746
00:59:57,480 --> 00:59:59,620
You can look at them after.
747
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,916
He's being temperamental!
748
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,664
You're going to be late getting home.
- It's not important.
749
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:14,635
And I've just had my break.
750
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:19,474
Why do I always have to
look into that thing?
751
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:22,388
And the photos?
- I want to look.
752
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:27,197
Should the video stop?
- Is it worthwhile shooting video now?
753
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,228
He's asking:
must you shoot video now?
754
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:36,477
It bugs him that you shoot
while he looks at the photos.
755
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:39,559
He wants to be left alone to look,
756
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:46,200
in peace and quiet, but now
he always has to look into the camera.
757
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:53,271
You don't have to look.
- But he told me I had to.
758
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:57,262
Did you tell him
to look in the camera?
759
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:00,861
You just make your statement.
760
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:05,677
After having suffered a great deal
for ten years,
761
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:10,230
first waiting for my trial,
762
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:15,031
and then in my prison cell,
763
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:20,308
I no longer had any hope.
764
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,840
Even though I thought of my family.
765
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:26,659
I came to the decision...
766
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:31,155
Wait! Not yet,
read the text to the end.
767
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:35,718
I decided to commit suicide.
768
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:41,624
The world seemed too horrible...
769
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:45,157
Don't do it yet.
770
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:47,837
Now you say...
771
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:51,466
Please take it in your hands,
772
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:53,637
the plastic sack.
773
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:57,677
Look in the camera a moment.
774
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,520
Now please put on the sack.
775
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:04,789
Don't say anything!
Keep looking.
776
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:09,062
Please look into the camera calmly.
Don't make a sound.
777
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:12,660
No noise yet.
778
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:17,957
Now please look down at the bag.
779
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,619
Slip it over your head,
but don't say anything.
780
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:26,785
Now tell me all about it.
781
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,464
How long can one hold out
inside the sack?
782
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,058
How long can one hold on?
783
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:45,432
Now you can take it off.
Take it off!
784
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:51,997
Look at the camera, please.
785
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:58,515
Now tell me,
what did our friend the baron say?
786
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:04,424
He said that
when the State is attacked
787
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:06,745
it has every right to defend itself.
788
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:09,156
I don't agree.
What's your opinion?
789
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,944
Can the state liquidate terrorists
790
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:17,154
who have killed people,
attacked the army, etc.?
791
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:21,298
To defend itself,
can the state also kill?
792
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:25,539
I prefer not to judge.
793
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:33,025
If the State can or cannot,
the State alone can decide.
794
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:37,029
I can't take a position,
I'm too insignificant.
795
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,276
If you remember,
796
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:43,555
you had the same problem before,
797
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:47,440
with the executions in Vilna.
798
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,864
The State chose
to dispose of people's lives,
799
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:54,037
whether you agreed or not.
800
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,551
You accepted that
one must obey the state.
801
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:00,710
When the state
802
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,942
that you have
pledged allegiance to under oath...
803
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,037
and...
804
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,898
when the whole general staff
805
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:16,476
knew exactly what each order meant,
806
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:20,071
and no general ever said
these orders were unjust,
807
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:25,150
during the meeting with Hitler,
before we invaded Russia...
808
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:28,341
None of these great generals
809
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,474
ever said anything.
810
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,503
What's a little worm like me
supposed to say?
811
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:39,908
This is an injustice and it's painful
812
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:42,760
that I have to carry out the orders.
813
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:53,240
I want to repeat this,
814
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:57,070
that the state became so violent
815
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:01,797
because Hitler
gave it absolute power.
816
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:05,072
Those of us
who had joined the Nazi party,
817
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,840
we were members,
818
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:11,466
we would have quit if we'd known
819
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:14,627
the kind of orders we'd be given.
820
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:18,551
But we couldn't leave.
821
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:22,599
Where could I go with my family?
822
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:28,181
To a concentration camp?
My children
823
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:30,596
taken away from me?
824
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,990
That's a hard thing to ask!
825
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:40,989
Those who lived it know
what they had to do.
826
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:44,864
If I had no family
I know what I'd have done.
827
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:58,259
Talk is cheap...
- Please look in the camera.
828
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:09,156
My unit advanced from Warsaw.
829
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,099
We stayed a night in Treuburg.
830
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:15,555
Please go a little to your left...
831
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:18,946
I mean to your right...
832
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:23,788
Draw a line to the photo.
Right up to the photo.
833
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,148
Continue above the photo.
834
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:35,037
That's very good.
835
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:39,632
You see the photo.
Do you know that man?
836
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:42,357
Just say yes or no.
- Yes.
837
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:44,870
Can you tell me his name?
838
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:47,909
Not what he does, only his name.
839
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:54,040
Do you know the man
on your right, below?
840
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:56,880
A little further on.
Know him?
841
01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:00,027
Yes.
- Do you know his name?
842
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:02,556
How about his face?
843
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:05,271
Don't you know his name?
844
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,264
You don't remember Mr. Kramer?
845
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:25,018
Can we have some quiet please?
846
01:08:34,440 --> 01:08:37,239
He was afraid for you.
- You can die quick.
847
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:45,058
I've learned you must do that
instead of other things.
848
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:55,901
Other things?
849
01:08:59,960 --> 01:09:03,146
Rather than aim violence at others
850
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:06,280
it's better to aim it at oneself.
851
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:15,877
I don't understand.
852
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:19,117
Forget it.
Tell him I'm...
853
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:21,824
I just couldn't hear you.
854
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:24,839
Okay, but I can't talk now.
855
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:41,873
What does he think about the photo
of my daughter Keja?
856
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:45,559
The one I showed him yesterday.
857
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,437
Does he see why I ask him?
- Very beautiful.
858
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:02,418
Certainly.
I'm thinking of my grandson.
859
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:05,866
Me too.
860
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:09,118
She'll be happy when I'm back.
861
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:15,556
I'm her only grandfather.
862
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:25,595
She's a very sweet child.
863
01:10:28,440 --> 01:10:30,659
She's 11 years old.
864
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:34,105
She does very well at school.
865
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:38,996
It's beautiful
866
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:42,386
when one is lucky with one's family.
867
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:47,156
Okay, let's cut it.
868
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,360
No, wait.
Don't cut yet.
869
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:05,067
It's true,
he was lucky with his family.
870
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:16,902
It would have been awful
if that too had failed.
871
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:25,020
Tell him: most people
872
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:28,278
weren't as lucky as he was.
873
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:38,104
If one wants harmony,
874
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:42,585
one has to learn
875
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:45,440
how to live with one another.
876
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:51,711
My wife loves her two children,
877
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:54,116
she loves her two sons very much.
878
01:11:56,560 --> 01:12:01,100
I do too of course,
but a mother is always a mother.
879
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:07,272
Not like a father
who's mostly absent.
880
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:13,760
How many kids did you kill?
881
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:17,860
Excuse me?
- How many kids did he kill?
882
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:24,272
I never killed children.
- He says none.
883
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:29,024
I was only present
for the execution of men.
884
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:32,633
That was quite enough for me.
885
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:42,867
We got the order
to include women and children too.
886
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:46,744
I told them to get someone else
to do it for them.
887
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:56,141
We'll stop now,
but we'll end by saying he was lucky
888
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:59,910
to have been there
only for the execution of men.
889
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:06,938
I could never understand
how an American officer...
890
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:10,745
was able to kill women and children...
891
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:15,261
in the last war
that the Americans were in.
892
01:13:21,440 --> 01:13:23,784
We did it easily in Vietnam.
893
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:30,277
Without problems?
894
01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:32,437
Without scruples.
895
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:45,981
When I was in Vilna,
896
01:13:47,480 --> 01:13:52,316
I looked for a doctor to give me
897
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:57,424
some sick leave,
so I could get out of it all.
898
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:00,339
And I can swear before God
899
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:03,064
I never shot a single person.
900
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:10,637
Despite the fact that
901
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:14,026
I was ordered to do so...
902
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:17,221
All officers were to kill at least once.
903
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:45,676
Would you be so kind?
904
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:00,796
I signed mine.
905
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:07,596
Will you or won't you?
906
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,319
If he doesn't want to,
he can say so.
907
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:27,220
Please, Jimmy!
908
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:42,277
Of course not.
909
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:45,624
You don't want to?
910
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:48,869
It's a very delicate affair.
911
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:57,800
Fine, because you don't want to...
912
01:15:58,440 --> 01:16:00,750
Henri's got to sign too.
913
01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:04,910
I signed already.
I wrote a little note.
914
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:55,837
If you ask me...
915
01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:03,190
But if this poses problems for him,
916
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:05,357
I won't ask him to sign.
917
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:18,101
Contrary to what I thought about him
even last week,
918
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:20,960
when he attacked me with stories
919
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:24,423
about what he'd done,
920
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:28,304
raping women
when he was in power, all that,
921
01:17:29,440 --> 01:17:32,558
today he waited until everybody
922
01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:35,070
left the dressing-room,
923
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:39,103
and then he came up to me
and embraced me.
924
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:44,309
He kissed me,
then he began to cry.
925
01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:46,261
He said:
926
01:17:46,480 --> 01:17:50,303
maybe I was the only person
he could count on
927
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:52,591
to say things to,
928
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:55,383
things he's unable to say,
929
01:17:58,440 --> 01:18:01,660
and will never
be able to say for the film.
930
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:05,191
He told me he's cracking,
he's crying
931
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:09,349
because he's tortured
by all that's happened
932
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,060
in his life.
933
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:17,820
And he's had
the same nightmare for 40 years
934
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:20,475
every night, every single night.
935
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:25,436
And that in this movie
he's forced to say
936
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:31,238
his only regret
is having lost his position in the SS.
937
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:37,708
He's being made into something.
938
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:40,139
He's being tortured...
939
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:44,309
We're doing really monstrous things
940
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:49,116
and he has no idea,
he doesn't know
941
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:53,316
what the purpose of this movie is.
942
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:57,680
He feels he has a truth to tell
and we won't let him.
943
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:00,476
I spent years
944
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:03,115
working like a dog
945
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:07,758
and look what I got out of it!
946
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:13,464
To this day I have no contact
947
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:15,877
with my sister-in-law.
948
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:25,303
One day they brought me
my brother's file, secretly.
949
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:28,911
An officer brought it to me.
950
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:33,318
I opened it
and there on the first page,
951
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:38,754
in Himmler's own writing,
in his brown ink:
952
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:41,338
First,
after jail my brother goes
953
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:43,540
to concentration camp.
954
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:47,948
Second,
no further promotion for me.
955
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:51,992
Third,
I am to write a confidential report
956
01:19:52,680 --> 01:19:55,115
on my own family.
957
01:19:57,760 --> 01:19:59,717
Signed, Himmler.
958
01:19:59,920 --> 01:20:02,139
You have showed much courage.
959
01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:04,599
Of course
960
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:09,354
I have suffered a lot.
961
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:12,579
So did my parents,
especially them.
962
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:14,757
My father
963
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:19,989
organized for the Nazis, my mother
was in the Nazi Women's League
964
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:22,596
and I was in the SS.
965
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:26,741
"The fatherland will reward you."
966
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:29,757
Oh yes...
967
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:32,960
Trying to help my brother,
968
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:36,583
I talked to a man I knew:
969
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:40,316
Piffrader,
he'd been in the foreign legion.
970
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:42,740
I talked to him...
971
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:46,476
He'd been
Muller's deputy at the Gestapo.
972
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:50,317
Panzinger was the other,
973
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:53,228
and they replaced Muller
974
01:20:53,440 --> 01:20:56,592
when he went on vacation.
975
01:20:57,680 --> 01:20:59,637
Let's go back to something:
976
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:03,424
the courage of the prison guard
977
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:08,354
who let you see your brother
for the last time.
978
01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:12,986
The last time I saw my brother
was at Dessau prison.
979
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:16,865
How was he?
980
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:19,778
He already had edema,
981
01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:24,360
I was told.
982
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:28,909
The edema got so bad
983
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:33,273
that his body was swollen
from holding in the water.
984
01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:39,791
I can't go on.
985
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:48,238
We really loved each other
when we were kids,
986
01:21:50,160 --> 01:21:52,903
and now it was so hard to see him
987
01:21:54,160 --> 01:21:56,538
in that condition, in prison.
988
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:04,554
And my brother's children,
989
01:22:05,480 --> 01:22:08,393
the older one lives in America
990
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:12,504
he has a good job,
991
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:14,797
in Philadelphia.
992
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:18,277
The youngest became German.
993
01:22:18,480 --> 01:22:22,110
After the war
they could choose their nationality.
994
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:25,758
The older was an MP
995
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:30,389
with the occupation forces in Germany.
996
01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:38,990
I still suffer today,
it still hurts very much,
997
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:46,358
because I was a part of
998
01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:49,037
that society,
999
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:55,238
so I feel responsible
1000
01:22:55,440 --> 01:22:58,148
for what happened to my brother.
1001
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:02,548
Like others,
he had a horrible and tragic fate.
1002
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:04,837
On top of that,
1003
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:08,317
my wife's sister
was burned to death
1004
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:11,263
in a bombing raid,
trapped in a Berlin cellar.
1005
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:15,789
It was horrible.
1006
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:31,157
Have I been cut?
1007
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:54,020
So in 1942,
1008
01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:58,218
his brother was put in Buchenwald
and never returned.
1009
01:23:59,920 --> 01:24:03,379
His tears were provoked
by the vision
1010
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:05,819
of his brother and himself.
1011
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:10,580
I imagined I'd pushed him
when he burst into tears,
1012
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:15,908
so I wanted to know
what really set him off.
1013
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:19,784
I tried to find out.
1014
01:24:20,400 --> 01:24:22,380
It was a total surprise.
1015
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:24,557
I never would have believed
1016
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:27,343
that this subject could touch him.
1017
01:24:27,560 --> 01:24:29,665
I said:
that's not his tragedy.
1018
01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:33,339
His tragedy isn't
tied to his family feeling.
1019
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:36,541
Family feelings
were an excuse to cry,
1020
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:39,138
but seeing his brother in prison
1021
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:42,876
means for Filbert
no more promotions in the SS.
1022
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:47,392
Incredible!
Just before we cut, he said:
1023
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:51,901
"Me too, I am responsible
1024
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:55,748
for everything that has been done
1025
01:24:56,720 --> 01:24:58,825
against myself,
1026
01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:04,156
a person who never got
the position he deserved."
1027
01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:08,662
So he's crying about his own fate.
1028
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:11,077
That and only that!
1029
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:17,794
That's the conclusion
of the scene we shot.
1030
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:20,517
Last words before we cut.
1031
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:24,590
I thought that
if he cried for himself,
1032
01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:28,862
it wasn't out of sadness
for his roasted sister-in-law,
1033
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:31,640
roasted is his word,
"a little roast,
1034
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:34,514
in her little red coat
1035
01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:39,035
that had shriveled up,
tiny, tiny."
1036
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:42,187
We talked about this
in the suffocation scene:
1037
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:45,620
"roast, tiny, very red."
1038
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:50,301
He returns to these three images:
his brother, his sister-in-law, death.
1039
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:54,787
His career was over
by the time he worked for the police.
1040
01:25:55,240 --> 01:25:57,380
You see how it all fits?
1041
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:03,065
I think we could go back over this,
1042
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:05,715
because we all witnessed the tears.
1043
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:08,867
We saw them run down his cheeks.
1044
01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:12,027
And in my enormous innocence,
1045
01:26:12,240 --> 01:26:15,790
I thought this man was crying
1046
01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:18,505
for all his murders.
1047
01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:20,717
A real human being on the set!
1048
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:26,040
We could imagine that we were
in front of a human being, who cries!
1049
01:26:26,240 --> 01:26:28,709
Who realizes his crimes!
1050
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:32,780
It wasn't that.
1051
01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:36,346
Our feelings are different than his.
1052
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:40,344
He cries for himself.
- We don't know these tears.
1053
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:44,157
If one of us didn't speak German,
1054
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:48,394
we might imagine
that a man was confronting his life,
1055
01:26:49,480 --> 01:26:53,997
not necessarily breaking down,
but facing up to it.
1056
01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:58,075
But he's never faced up to it, never.
1057
01:26:58,480 --> 01:27:03,077
I don't really resemble Dr. S.
1058
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:10,078
I think they've hired
another stand-in.
1059
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:13,071
Does that make you feel bad?
1060
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:16,944
Well, sure it does.
1061
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:20,438
And then no, not at all!
1062
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:26,238
Now I'm free to do more important things,
more interesting for an actor.
1063
01:27:26,440 --> 01:27:29,865
And then, "No, nothing at all.
1064
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:33,744
I don't regret anything."
1065
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:39,712
"Not the good, not the bad,
1066
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:42,503
It's all the same to me."
1067
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:53,666
"I've paid a lot,
I've swept it away,
1068
01:27:53,880 --> 01:27:59,148
forgotten it all,
and I'm through with the past!"
1069
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:01,194
Okay, that's it?
1070
01:28:01,400 --> 01:28:04,677
I see people talking again.
1071
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:09,394
How can one rip out those vocal cords
to get silence?
1072
01:28:09,600 --> 01:28:12,786
Is it really impossible?
- I'll give it a try.
1073
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:25,940
As soon as I move,
look what happens.
1074
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:29,594
It's moved again.
Put it back.
1075
01:28:30,040 --> 01:28:32,509
Don't move him,
we'll move the text.
1076
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:41,225
From here I can't see it right.
1077
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:46,674
The text isn't in the light.
1078
01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:49,917
I declare that
1079
01:28:50,120 --> 01:28:53,340
I was a member of Special Unit 1005,
1080
01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:55,620
called the Welterkommando,
1081
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:59,470
and our duties included...
1082
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:03,071
Unburying...
- unburying,
1083
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:06,398
excavation and incineration,
1084
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:09,513
around the mass graves.
1085
01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:13,270
When he hesitates Heike,
don't slow down.
1086
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:19,226
Yes, unburying,
excavation and incineration.
1087
01:29:19,440 --> 01:29:21,397
The word unburying is hard, no?
1088
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:24,877
Yes, it is.
- Excavation and incineration...
1089
01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:28,505
Never heard of that.
- Burying, unburying.
1090
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:30,939
It's not an ordinary word.
1091
01:29:31,240 --> 01:29:34,995
Excavation and...
- Burying,
1092
01:29:35,200 --> 01:29:39,319
I can understand, but...
- We'll use unburying when we do it.
1093
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:42,866
So, unburying, excavation...
1094
01:29:43,080 --> 01:29:46,744
Hold on.
Everybody in place.
1095
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:53,397
Can we begin again at incineration?
- Unburying,
1096
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,547
excavation and incineration
1097
01:29:56,760 --> 01:29:59,195
around the mass graves.
1098
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:03,463
Secondly, participation in executions.
1099
01:30:03,960 --> 01:30:08,591
Participating in executions
as grave
1100
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:11,025
diggers.
1101
01:30:11,240 --> 01:30:13,220
That is...
- That is.
1102
01:30:13,440 --> 01:30:15,397
When the civilian prisoners
1103
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:20,436
finished digging up the dead
1104
01:30:20,640 --> 01:30:22,916
and counting them,
1105
01:30:23,120 --> 01:30:27,000
they had to be killed
as witnesses to a...
1106
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:29,874
a state secret of the Reich.
Is that right?
1107
01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:33,300
A state secret of the Reich.
1108
01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:37,272
We were forced to kill them.
1109
01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:42,740
A dirty trick!
To have forced these
1110
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:45,476
poor people to kill themselves.
1111
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:50,152
Pushing them to crime,
then making them punish themselves.
1112
01:30:50,360 --> 01:30:53,103
"Go kill yourselves,"
just as a thank you!
1113
01:30:53,320 --> 01:30:55,300
Allers, who directed this
1114
01:30:55,520 --> 01:30:58,501
is a lawyer for the Hamburg shipyards.
- I'll be damned.
1115
01:30:58,720 --> 01:31:01,701
And what does
the German government say?
1116
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:03,957
Ask them.
1117
01:31:04,160 --> 01:31:07,437
There were three trials.
He's a lawyer, he's ill.
1118
01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:12,840
And because of
what my brother said against Hitler,
1119
01:31:13,240 --> 01:31:15,744
I spent 18 years in prison!
1120
01:31:19,280 --> 01:31:21,556
And now!
- I've lost my eyesight
1121
01:31:21,760 --> 01:31:24,343
because of these problems!
- Thank you very much.
1122
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:26,904
And the nervous exhaustion!
1123
01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:29,157
Yes, thank you.
1124
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:36,991
All of these kinds of actions,
all this stuff...
1125
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:39,340
I didn't do it.
1126
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:42,871
About the gassing:
Allers was head of the unit
1127
01:31:43,080 --> 01:31:46,596
responsible for action 14-F-13
in the hospitals,
1128
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:49,019
where 180,000 people were killed
1129
01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:51,197
by gas.
- They said...
1130
01:31:51,400 --> 01:31:53,437
these people were mentally ill.
1131
01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:56,439
First they were insane,
then they were communists.
1132
01:31:57,120 --> 01:31:59,589
Seen as crazy
because they were communist.
1133
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:04,033
The insane became Jews,
Polish intellectuals became insane etc.
1134
01:32:04,240 --> 01:32:08,507
Allers ran this program to the end,
then he ran shipyards.
1135
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:12,350
That's it.
- Not a single trial.
1136
01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:16,258
These people
were supposed to kill themselves,
1137
01:32:16,480 --> 01:32:18,790
obeying the oath:
"My honor is my loyalty."
1138
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:21,913
About 200 killed themselves,
all but 10.
1139
01:32:24,400 --> 01:32:26,744
Now I'm almost convinced,
1140
01:32:29,320 --> 01:32:31,960
because of what happened,
1141
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:34,743
they knew what I thought
and wanted me
1142
01:32:34,960 --> 01:32:37,668
to commit suicide
after that action.
1143
01:32:38,920 --> 01:32:40,877
He's asking me what I think.
1144
01:32:41,080 --> 01:32:42,639
Wait!
1145
01:32:43,640 --> 01:32:45,745
He asks me what I think.
1146
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:50,499
I'm not very interested
in the details
1147
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:53,360
you discuss with Mr. Harlan.
1148
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:01,590
These are specifics:
1149
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:05,866
aspects more relevant
to professionals of the period.
1150
01:33:14,400 --> 01:33:20,237
I think you are guilty of
great crimes against humanity.
1151
01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:29,559
At the same time you are old...
1152
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:34,038
I have a certain respect for you.
1153
01:33:34,240 --> 01:33:38,632
Thanks for your frankness!
I won't answer that!
1154
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:43,914
Thanks for being so frank.
Lovely! Marvelous!
1155
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:48,785
It's not true?
- So your opinion is that I'm guilty
1156
01:33:49,600 --> 01:33:51,796
of I crime I was forced into!
1157
01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:54,071
What I'm saying isn't true?
1158
01:33:54,280 --> 01:33:56,784
Thank you!
- No, he's furious.
1159
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:28,877
Are you plugged in?
1160
01:34:29,080 --> 01:34:31,720
Now connect Thomas's transmitter.
1161
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:34,396
And this movie has been made
1162
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:37,752
to burn into the earth
and in the heavens
1163
01:34:37,960 --> 01:34:39,997
the fragment of truth
1164
01:34:40,200 --> 01:34:43,181
that we can find
inside this barbarian,
1165
01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:45,437
who has remained a barbarian.
1166
01:34:45,640 --> 01:34:47,859
You're not facing a human being.
1167
01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:52,438
You see the earthly remains
of a man who no longer exists,
1168
01:34:52,640 --> 01:34:55,712
and who never did exist as a man.
1169
01:34:55,920 --> 01:35:00,312
He's one of the worst individuals
the earth has seen,
1170
01:35:00,520 --> 01:35:04,184
and he's unlucky enough
not to know it.
1171
01:35:05,320 --> 01:35:08,472
Today I confront him
1172
01:35:09,080 --> 01:35:11,959
with a massacre he committed.
1173
01:35:12,160 --> 01:35:14,231
He doesn't know I know about it.
1174
01:35:14,440 --> 01:35:18,832
I've studied his story.
I know it better than he does,
1175
01:35:20,040 --> 01:35:22,919
because I haven't forgotten.
1176
01:35:23,280 --> 01:35:25,237
I keep trying to learn.
1177
01:35:25,440 --> 01:35:27,784
In this story of his
1178
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:31,459
there's a day
at Vileyka in White Russia,
1179
01:35:32,880 --> 01:35:34,917
August 20th,
1180
01:35:36,640 --> 01:35:38,597
1941
1181
01:35:39,240 --> 01:35:44,508
when he brought 100 people
to an open trench...
1182
01:35:44,720 --> 01:35:49,385
He killed those 100 people.
In all he's killed about 100,000.
1183
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:53,140
100 people in Vileyka
in front of a trench.
1184
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:55,957
He himself gave the order,
1185
01:35:56,160 --> 01:35:59,107
because he was a senior officer,
the chief
1186
01:35:59,320 --> 01:36:02,745
responsible for
all of Lithuania and White Russia.
1187
01:36:03,440 --> 01:36:07,957
A miracle happened:
two people got away.
1188
01:36:08,160 --> 01:36:10,117
Know him?
1189
01:36:11,080 --> 01:36:13,390
A unit commanded by Filbert
1190
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:16,638
arrested 100 Jews
between Vitebsk and Vileyka.
1191
01:36:16,840 --> 01:36:19,514
That's not true!
- Stopping by a forest
1192
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:22,394
already used to bury Russian workers.
1193
01:36:22,600 --> 01:36:25,786
Tunnat secured the terrain,
1194
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:28,947
while Filbert
directed the firing squad.
1195
01:36:29,160 --> 01:36:32,676
The wounded
were finished off by rifle...
1196
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:34,985
That was Tunnat's unit!
1197
01:36:35,200 --> 01:36:38,784
Tunnat was sent there
by the general!
1198
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:40,957
They were shot at in bursts,
1199
01:36:41,160 --> 01:36:43,959
and then there was
firing with machine guns.
1200
01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:48,957
Suddenly two men ran...
1201
01:36:49,160 --> 01:36:53,518
Wait, you say your side Afterwards.
Two men ran...
1202
01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:56,463
There was
a huge burst of gunfire...
1203
01:36:56,680 --> 01:37:00,947
All lies!
I was never even there!
1204
01:37:01,160 --> 01:37:02,423
I was...
1205
01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:06,338
commander in Vitebsk,
not Vileyka.
1206
01:37:08,080 --> 01:37:10,720
And what about Vilna?
1207
01:37:11,280 --> 01:37:13,420
I refuse to talk about that.
1208
01:37:14,280 --> 01:37:16,317
I talked enough at my trial.
1209
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:18,591
Do you recognize these men?
1210
01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:22,146
One among them
might have escaped
1211
01:37:22,360 --> 01:37:24,340
miraculously at Vileyka.
1212
01:37:24,560 --> 01:37:27,234
My God!
- Do you recognize them?
1213
01:37:27,440 --> 01:37:29,818
Ask them if they recognize me.
1214
01:37:32,640 --> 01:37:35,223
Do you know one of these men?
1215
01:37:35,440 --> 01:37:39,593
It has been said that
there's a witness to the executions.
1216
01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:43,350
I've been tried.
I was given life imprisonment
1217
01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:47,395
That's enough!
- I'm not talking about your trial...
1218
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:49,273
Please stop.
1219
01:37:49,640 --> 01:37:53,634
I want to ask you this...
- I'm going to leave right now!
1220
01:37:54,520 --> 01:37:57,103
Please come back.
We can't just stop!
1221
01:37:59,360 --> 01:38:01,317
Please come back.
1222
01:38:03,520 --> 01:38:04,874
I won't.
1223
01:38:06,440 --> 01:38:08,477
I'll take his wig off!
1224
01:38:08,680 --> 01:38:10,876
You wanted it done!
I'll do it!
1225
01:38:11,080 --> 01:38:14,061
I swear to God
I never shot anyone!
1226
01:38:19,360 --> 01:38:21,795
You must answer me.
1227
01:38:22,000 --> 01:38:23,957
Why?
1228
01:38:25,320 --> 01:38:28,631
I ask you to look into the camera.
1229
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:33,743
I've always faced you with my camera.
1230
01:38:36,480 --> 01:38:38,699
Look at the camera.
1231
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:42,437
I don't want to anymore!
It's over!
1232
01:38:43,080 --> 01:38:45,356
Say that into the camera.
1233
01:38:45,560 --> 01:38:47,779
Have the courage to face me!
1234
01:38:55,680 --> 01:38:58,115
I'll read it.
- I wasn't there.
1235
01:38:58,320 --> 01:39:01,301
Remember the judgment?
"In the name of the people..."
1236
01:39:02,560 --> 01:39:05,359
I won't look.
- It's the original.
1237
01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:08,308
I know what's there.
- So don't say it's not there.
1238
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:13,117
You can't use my judgment.
- You claim it's not there!
1239
01:39:13,320 --> 01:39:16,597
"Filbert sent Tunnat
with the Jewish prisoners
1240
01:39:16,800 --> 01:39:20,794
to dig a mass grave."
That's from the judgment.
1241
01:39:21,000 --> 01:39:23,799
Filbert asked Tunnat
to read the order
1242
01:39:24,000 --> 01:39:26,276
and the Jews were executed.
1243
01:39:26,480 --> 01:39:30,269
When one starts a work,
one should finish it.
1244
01:39:30,801 --> 01:39:32,758
Will you return to the stage?
1245
01:39:35,160 --> 01:39:37,720
This scares you so much
you'll even lie?
1246
01:39:37,920 --> 01:39:40,560
I'm not afraid!
- You're sneaking away!
1247
01:39:40,760 --> 01:39:42,740
What was your part in this?
1248
01:39:42,961 --> 01:39:46,955
Reading your judgment
I see things that shock me!
1249
01:39:47,160 --> 01:39:51,393
You told me the judges said
you hadn't killed anyone.
1250
01:39:51,601 --> 01:39:53,558
Not true!
1251
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:56,878
Six witnesses say
you participated in the executions.
1252
01:39:57,080 --> 01:39:59,879
You told me you fired.
1253
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:03,960
Come, I'll explain!
- Look at all the people here!
1254
01:40:04,160 --> 01:40:06,117
I'm not alone with you.
1255
01:40:06,321 --> 01:40:09,541
You said something untrue.
You lied to me!
1256
01:40:09,760 --> 01:40:12,264
I did not!
- You said something false.
1257
01:40:12,480 --> 01:40:15,700
You said you never fired.
It's written!
1258
01:40:17,240 --> 01:40:20,790
I ask you...
- You're a coward to do this here!
1259
01:40:21,000 --> 01:40:23,708
You're the coward
who's afraid to talk
1260
01:40:23,921 --> 01:40:27,312
in front of us here.
- About lies?
1261
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:28,874
I'm lying?
1262
01:40:29,080 --> 01:40:33,506
Me? 1000's were killed
by you and your men.
1263
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:37,418
You did it yourself
or you ordered it done.
1264
01:40:37,640 --> 01:40:41,463
Now I know you lied...
- I'll tell you the truth.
1265
01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:43,637
Go right ahead!
- Not here.
1266
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:47,868
You have to do it in front of all of us!
Come along, please.
1267
01:40:48,520 --> 01:40:50,739
I've said "please"!
1268
01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:56,037
What's the meaning of this?
1269
01:40:57,560 --> 01:40:59,517
This is violence!
1270
01:41:00,480 --> 01:41:02,858
Please come with me.
Don't touch me!
1271
01:41:03,080 --> 01:41:05,151
You're touching me!
1272
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:09,071
You're responsible here.
- I'm responsible for myself.
1273
01:41:09,280 --> 01:41:12,830
Don't pull my arm.
I've never done that to you.
1274
01:41:13,160 --> 01:41:15,300
Come back inside with us.
1275
01:41:15,520 --> 01:41:17,477
Careful with his glasses...
1276
01:41:20,561 --> 01:41:23,383
His costume for the film...
1277
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:47,957
I do it gently.
1278
01:41:57,200 --> 01:41:59,157
I've been badly hurt.
1279
01:42:02,360 --> 01:42:04,317
This came from Auschwitz!
1280
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:07,024
My brother was in Buchenwald,
1281
01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:11,152
and he's dead.
- It's your own men who killed him!
1282
01:42:11,360 --> 01:42:13,192
Absurd!
1283
01:42:13,400 --> 01:42:16,313
My whole family was killed.
1284
01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:21,946
Roasted in the ovens!
1285
01:42:22,160 --> 01:42:24,117
I didn't do it!
1286
01:42:24,680 --> 01:42:28,378
You didn't?
You killed 8,000 people!
1287
01:42:28,600 --> 01:42:31,581
I didn't do it!
- You gave orders, you shot...
1288
01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:36,357
I never killed anyone!
1289
01:42:36,600 --> 01:42:39,786
That's a lie!
You lied to us!
1290
01:42:40,000 --> 01:42:41,957
No I haven't.
1291
01:42:42,161 --> 01:42:44,721
You've lied to all of us.
1292
01:42:55,281 --> 01:42:57,238
I don't agree!
1293
01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:00,917
We're not wild animals!
1294
01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:06,350
If he agrees to talk, okay,
but no violence.
1295
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:10,917
I've been wounded again.
1296
01:43:11,120 --> 01:43:15,182
Because you fight and try to get out.
1297
01:43:15,400 --> 01:43:19,064
You know no one leaves
while we're shooting!
1298
01:43:19,281 --> 01:43:21,261
Translate.
1299
01:43:21,480 --> 01:43:24,359
He says he's wounded.
1300
01:43:25,041 --> 01:43:29,069
He says, "You hit me."
I said he's been lying to us.
1301
01:43:29,280 --> 01:43:34,514
He says that at his trial he never killed,
but here's the proof!
1302
01:43:34,720 --> 01:43:37,030
He killed on July 10th, 1941.
1303
01:43:37,240 --> 01:43:41,666
He began shooting people himself!
Here's proof!
1304
01:43:41,880 --> 01:43:45,226
10 minutes ago he said:
"Don't talk about my trial.
1305
01:43:45,440 --> 01:43:48,262
Don't talk about my judgment."
1306
01:43:48,480 --> 01:43:53,145
which is the eyewitness account
of his crimes! He's admitted
1307
01:43:53,360 --> 01:43:55,579
that he was one of the nine people
1308
01:43:55,800 --> 01:43:59,191
who met with Heydrich
on October 28, 1939,
1309
01:43:59,400 --> 01:44:03,064
where the Final Solution was decided:
1310
01:44:03,280 --> 01:44:05,784
death to all Polish intellectuals,
1311
01:44:06,001 --> 01:44:09,426
liquidation of
the Polish clergy and the Jews.
1312
01:44:09,640 --> 01:44:14,840
This was decided not in 1942,
but on October 28, 1939,
1313
01:44:15,200 --> 01:44:20,036
six weeks after the war began.
A conference with Heydrich,
1314
01:44:20,680 --> 01:44:22,876
all the heads of departments,
1315
01:44:23,080 --> 01:44:27,541
and he was one
of the nine founders of genocide!
1316
01:44:28,240 --> 01:44:31,358
He was there,
and he was arrested.
1317
01:44:31,560 --> 01:44:36,703
What did you ask me?
- We'll talk in front of everybody.
1318
01:44:36,920 --> 01:44:39,116
Go on whipping them up!
1319
01:44:39,560 --> 01:44:41,597
I'm only translating.
1320
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:44,304
You're exciting them.
- What did he say?
1321
01:44:44,520 --> 01:44:47,433
He says:
"What you do to me is shameful.
1322
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:50,792
You incite them against me.
1323
01:44:52,120 --> 01:44:54,157
I'm disgusted with you."
1324
01:44:54,360 --> 01:44:56,670
Where'd you find him?
- We found him...
1325
01:44:56,881 --> 01:44:59,385
Where'd you find him?
- In Berlin,
1326
01:45:00,120 --> 01:45:04,637
in his apartment.
A lawyer told me he was alive.
1327
01:45:56,520 --> 01:45:58,864
Later, on the set,
1328
01:45:59,080 --> 01:46:01,959
we heard that the old Nazi
was willing to continue.
1329
01:46:02,161 --> 01:46:04,198
Nothing too serious,
1330
01:46:04,401 --> 01:46:08,589
we'd make some apologies
and he'd be back, ready to shoot.
1331
01:46:10,801 --> 01:46:12,758
And some months later,
1332
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:16,237
when one of the crew
saw him in Berlin,
1333
01:46:16,920 --> 01:46:19,196
the Dr. confided
1334
01:46:19,400 --> 01:46:24,782
in a friendly, even intimate way,
that after all,
1335
01:46:25,360 --> 01:46:30,139
this experience with the movies
had been the greatest moment of his life,
1336
01:46:31,520 --> 01:46:35,150
And that, well,
that's quite a number, no?
1337
01:48:30,600 --> 01:48:32,580
He stopped singing.
1338
01:48:35,600 --> 01:48:37,705
He was touched.
1339
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:41,757
He cracked!
1340
01:48:45,400 --> 01:48:47,744
Maybe he didn't really crack.
1341
01:48:48,160 --> 01:48:50,117
You thought that?
1342
01:48:50,920 --> 01:48:53,799
I thought you'd sing with him.
1343
01:48:58,080 --> 01:49:00,037
We could have sung...
1344
01:49:01,120 --> 01:49:03,703
Shut the door!
They'll chew us out.
1345
01:49:15,720 --> 01:49:17,996
I prefer The Internationale.
1346
01:49:19,760 --> 01:49:22,912
I know the words better.
1347
01:49:23,160 --> 01:49:25,300
I don't know Heili-Heilo.
1348
01:49:31,200 --> 01:49:34,022
I'm not going to sing alone.
1349
01:49:35,921 --> 01:49:38,117
They'll chew us out!
What a life!
1350
01:49:38,320 --> 01:49:41,199
What do you think?
Shall we go on?
1351
01:49:41,880 --> 01:49:44,315
We work until the end of the week?
1352
01:49:44,520 --> 01:49:47,831
With such a nice crew we could
1353
01:49:48,560 --> 01:49:52,748
shoot another one.
- It was crazy, but it was different.
1354
01:49:52,960 --> 01:49:56,180
Exactly.
We all came out of it okay,
1355
01:49:56,480 --> 01:49:58,756
and I hope the movie does too.
1356
01:49:59,601 --> 01:50:01,581
Can we have absolute silence?
98492
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