Original subtitles

"All the ambitious ones

became Nazis."

That's what the old man said.

That's his explanation, or excuse.

No matter,

each day I see the results of that ambition.

Put the gun to your neck, please.

Hold it far away.

It should be hard to do.

Push your shoulders back.

Look into the camera.

Drop your arm.

OUR NAZI

That's Filbert,

his passport picture from 1937.

Alfred Filbert, doctor of law.

Like Thomas says, he's done it all:

deputy chief of foreign intelligence,

head of a mobile killing unit in Russia,

chief of the security police in Lithuania,

high official of the criminal police in Germany.

Then he lived quietly until 1962,

when a German court sentenced him to life imprisonment

for the murder of 11,449 Jewish citizens.

15 years later, in 1977

he was released because of poor health.

Now, here on the shooting stage

he's an actor directed by Thomas Harlan.

Thomas hired him as an actor

because Thomas knows the Nazi past too well

to let just any actor play a part

that only a real professional can play.

Thomas Harlan knows his job and his subject.

His father, Veit Harlan, was a protégé of Goebbels.

Veit Harlan was also a movie director.

He was a star of Nazi cinema.

Like Thomas says: each of them in their way,

Filbert and my father went through it all without ever really understanding.

And nobody can deny it!

The old man got a good contract:

150,000 French francs

to play himself in a dangerous role.

"A Nazi is interrogated by his kidnappers."

I kept my eyes glued to the camera

I had to try to see everything

since my ears were little help.

I mean, hardly any of us spoke German.

And in the beginning

it seemed like we were studying history.

I watched Thomas and Filbert locked in their common past.

But after a while

I wasn't able to tell the past from the present.

There's the curious one.

Can he tell me the story of his scars?

Tell me when to start.

When I was a student

I joined

a student organization.

To be a member

you had to fight six duels.

Try and mix the two.

When you lower light One, raise the other.

That way we see the light change.

Get ready!

You blew it! - I'll try again.

Lower One.

Bring up Two... it looks better.

Turn up Four, lower Two.

We've got to mix them more.

This bone's split.

Here's another splintered bone.

They covered it with leather for the next fight,

the doctor said I could get killed.

Sure, dueling seems dumb!

But when you live through it yourself...

I was a sensitive young man then,

it did me good, it strengthened me.

You learn to keep going

even through blood if necessary

right to the end...

When I met Filbert

not quite a year ago

he didn't remind me of my father, but he shared

the same history as my father.

Both had lived with power,

a really immense power.

I met him while preparing my movie.

He resembled the hero,

whose part I was writing.

It wasn't until our first meetings,

when I felt his nostalgia for the old Nazi times,

and his reverence

for my father, that I realized

to what extent the executions at Vilna

and the crushing of Lithuania,

which Filbert had planned,

were related to

German cinema of that period.

It went right through.

It hit my teeth through the lip.

It was really ugly.

It had to be sewn up. A friend did it,

just a medical student, not a real doctor.

He sewed it up.

He did a good job.

Like they used to darn socks.

So they let me join the organization.

I never thought of dueling again.

You're going to start?

I'm starting.

So, my childhood

and my student years were the best years of my life.

But all the ambitions ones became Nazis.

My father never understood:

after the war he was accused

of war crimes. The Allied Control Council had a law

used to judge intellectuals who incited

other people to murder.

He was acquitted twice

by German courts, after the Nuremberg trials.

What struck me most

about my father's trial

was that the judge himself

was a criminal. His name was Budde.

He had ordered

the execution of a Ukrainian girl

for robbery,

for stealing a scarf during an air raid.

Budde, judge of the Hamburg court, acquitted

my father, as did the court at Cologne.

At the time people thought:

"Such a great artist could not be guilty

of crimes that only SS soldiers had committed."

You don't look very satisfied. - No.

I want him harsh.

Add the One.

That's possible too.

Maybe it's a little too harsh.

Can you soften the light?

Lower the One, it's too strong.

I don't want him to look like he's wearing a death mask.

I can't tell if the lighting's too cruel:

I want a non-light, as if shooting hasn't started yet.

It's finished? - Ask him to lower his hands.

Do you mind lowering your hands, please?

A few weeks before he died

my father asked me to see him.

He lived in Italy.

He asked me to let him die

beside me. And he did.

In Italy

on an island called Capri.

I've looked for his grave, but it's gone.

I don't know.

I looked around, but we couldn't find it,

nor could the gravediggers.

I asked my brother, he didn't know either.

Your grandchildren's names?

What are their names?

What are your grandchildren's names?

Their names!

Of my grandchildren?

Why?

I have three grandchildren.

One in Berlin and two in Stuttgart.

But

I don't know their names.

Electricians!

We've got to change the lights,

to get a different effect on the face.

Lower the Four

and give me a lateral light.

Good, cut Two.

"All my life I've been fascinated by law courts.

Four things always interest me in a city:

public gardens, the market, the cemetery, the law courts.

But now I know from experience

that listening to judgments being made

is different from making them.

In court, you still believe in judging,

as in the hard times, when Christ's voice came."

That's good.

We recorded it.

But I can't speak French.

I haven't had French since school.

You understand?

When I describe my mother

I realize I owe her everything.

My mother was so hard-working!

But I have to say how beautiful she was.

Always well dressed, she made her clothes,

and the children's too.

My father had to go back to school.

He came from the country and he had to learn things all over again,

while we were learning them.

He moves me because he brings up

a very personal story,

my political story with Germany.

And I know lots of old men like him!

As a human being, how can you feel sympathetic towards him

and forget what he's done?

I can't understand that!

Do you think I forget what he's done?

I watch your relationship with him,

and it... it...

Disgusts you? - Yes! Yes!

To touch this person makes me...

I can't find the word. It disgusts me!

I come home and wash my hands 20 times

to make sure nothing stayed on them.

I smell my hands as if...

It's psychological, but that's how it is.

But I'll stay to the end 'cause I hear many things.

I hear what people say.

It's not loyalty to Thomas that keeps me here,

it's because of what I hear and how it helps me.

You can begin.

I was born in Darmstadt on September 8, 1905.

My father was Peter, from Odenwald. My mother was Christiane, from Heidelberg.

What was the prison term you got in 1960-61?

How was the sentence worded? - Life imprisonment.

The year you joined the Party and the SS?

1930... 1932.

You came to Berlin in...?

In 1935.

You became a lieutenant in the SS in...?

1936.

You became deputy chief of the Reich

Counter-Intelligence Service in...?

November 1st, 19...

1939.

You commanded a mobile killing unit, Einsatzgruppe, Commando 9,

from what date?

19...

1941.

The approximate date?

Just before the war started.

With the Soviet Union? - With the Soviet Union.

When was the Commando sent to fight in Russia?

After...

After the war began?

Of course.

Or at the start?

I was sent to Russia.

I recall it was

after my brother made his remark about Hitler.

No, not your personal history: the date in terms of the war.

The invasion of Russia began on June 22nd?

You were in Warsaw? - That's when I left my office

to become head of a commando in Warsaw.

What was its name? - Special Action Commando 9.

Of the Security Police? - The Security Police

and the Intelligence Service.

Who was head of B-Division?

The Chief of Criminal Police, Arthur Nebe.

I can't.

What do you think?

It'd be mean, no?

I can barely hear.

You hear when I speak?

So it's the right sound level.

Please begin. - It was when Heydrich left

that I first heard that Hitler had ordered

the killing of all Jews.

I had...

Excuse me, but your hesitation won't look good here.

Take it again.

It was when Heydrich left that I first heard

that Hitler had ordered the killing of all Jews.

In...

In Warsaw...

I was with Nebe at the casino. I asked him:

"How can one imagine such a thing?"

He said: "I was an engineer corps officer in World War I.

You just put the people in a house and blow it up!"

I asked: "Who'll get all those

badly wounded people out?"

"It'll all work out in the end," Nebe said.

That's what he said.

And I thought: "What can I do about it?"

Then, one Sunday

partisans attacked our headquarters.

I reported the attack to Berlin right away

so that I'd be covered.

I received the order from Berlin

telling us to kill 300 hostages. - Look at us, please.

Then I... I...

Look at the camera, please.

I was given this order from...

Look into the camera. - the general:

and therefore

I ordered the execution of

about 20 Jews in Vilna.

Look left to the camera.

Look left to the camera.

The other camera. - To my right.

And then I...

You can imagine how disturbed my men were

after these executions,

even though this was little compared to what happened later.

I'm sure I'd have even walked home if I could have.

But our orders stated:

"I swear to you Adolf Hitler,

as Fuhrer and Chancellor of the Reich,

loyalty and courage till death.

I swear to you, and to all the authorities set above me,

to be faithful and brave,

and to follow your orders.

I swear...

I swear this to you, so help me God."

If someone in the SS

fails to execute these orders,

he will be severely punished,

as will all the members of his family.

Can we keep shooting?

No more film. - No more film?

Not even for the clap.

I wanted to film the text...

All this happened

only because we had become a dictatorship.

Reported to Berlin

and to division

so I'd be covered.

Adolf Hitler, I swear to you

loyalty and courage till death.

I swear to you,

and to all the authorities set above me,

to be faithful and brave,

so help me God.

If anyone

in the SS

fails to execute these orders

he will be severely punished,

as will all the members of his family.

I said, I only heard about the gas chambers later.

I didn't hear of them in Russia.

Later I heard that Nebe

invented the gas chamber:

he had them built by Rauff.

We should have had bigger close-ups.

So I have a request...

We were very close. - A request!

It doesn't matter if he's in profile.

Put him close to the photo?

Then you can go from big face to big photo...

And now I'll give you the rhythm you need.

I'll set the timing with the questions.

I did it badly before: I got too excited.

Camera! - I don't want to incriminate anyone...

Action! - behind their backs.

But if someone

did me a dirty turn, I would say so.

I can read you a report:

Nebe takes personal responsibility

for blowing up the hospital patients and Jews of Mogilev.

Nebe did it. Widmann criticizes him

for the way he did it.

When I asked Nebe:

"How can anyone carry out such an order?"

He said: "Put them in a house and blow them up."

But I don't know that he did it.

It hurts to talk about this?

Why? - It hurts me because...

I'm German!

And I'm sorry we're still

talking about all this today.

40 years have gone by.

How can I tell if what I say is 100% true?

I take responsibility for what I say...

but I can't answer for what others did.

We're slow today.

We've had film problems,

and we want to take a break now.

How long a break do you need?

Five minutes.

So we'll begin in an hour and a half.

You look tired, please rest.

I have no space to work here!

There's been such suffering today!

Who's responsible for my desk?

The light's been changed.

I can't read, I make noise. Why is this?

I have so much saliva in my mouth.

We're taking a break

so you don't have to make him up.

How are you?

It gets to him: so how worn down he is?

He says he's sorry

the crew doesn't understand German. Be he's lucky!

This film couldn't be made in West Germany.

In East Germany they'd stone him.

Where I live, anyway.

When you grasp what he's saying,

it drives you crazy!

At least while he's saying it.

Then filming stops and I see this broken old man.

But did you hear the ugly things he says?

How he talks about Russia!

But I can't let myself argue.

I just think: "The bill's adding up, and you'll pay!"

That's how Hertz feels: on the last day of shooting

he's going to tell him he's from Israel.

And all that was important

depended on me.

In the police? - In the security police.

All operations with border residents.

Can you show us the organization of your department?

Just write A-B-C-D...

Finish writing...

Please stand up.

Sit down in the chair.

Can you speak?

Don't talk about what just happened, don't allude to it.

When did your brother die?

Where did your brother die?

When did your brother die?

Where did your brother die?

My brother was in a concentration camp: Buchenwald.

He was reported missing.

Who killed him? - Thank you very much.

We're taking a break. I hope you didn't hurt yourself.

An important request!

Get a photo of anyone who came into the frame!

Those who came into the frame

must not leave!

I feel responsible for him,

whether I like it or not.

Even if I feel this responsibility...

as something very heavy,

we're responsible for him!

What was your name in 1945?

Nothing.

Was your section responsible for Russia?

No. - Your brother committed suicide?

No. - Who killed your brother?

I don't know.

You visited him? - I went to see him.

You visited him? - It was forbidden, but I did.

At Sachsenhausen? - No, before his trial...

I visited him in prison.

But never at Buchenwald? - No.

He died at Buchenwald.

Why?

No idea. - Who killed him?

I don't know. - When did he die?

I don't know.

Weren't you punished because of your brother?

Didn't you pay for others' crimes?

I'm aware of that. - Why did you assume others' guilt?

At your trial, why did you spare the members of the army?

To aid my fatherland.

It's obvious you were punished because of your brother.

In what year did he die?

No idea. He was reported missing.

Who disappears in Buchenwald?

"He's missing." That's what they told my family.

He died in Buchenwald. Imagine what they did to him.

How can one go missing from a camp? You're locked up.

Who vanishes from jail? - I can't verify it.

As a lawyer I can only accept facts,

or what I've seen myself. I don't know about anything else...

Nobody ever disappeared from a camp.

How can someone go missing in prison?

A prison's not a concentration camp.

Perhaps he escaped. - Look to your right, into the camera.

Maybe he escaped.

You were punished for what he said.

So was he. Obviously they killed him.

Don't you know they killed him?

You imagine he died of illness? Impossible!

During my trial there were many things I didn't know about.

It was only later...

Did you love your brother deeply?

In Russia, did you think about your brother:

what had happened to him? Was he still alive?

I thought about him.

He'd been in prison two years...

Message for Jimmy!

Move the camera around his head!

Sorry. Speaking French to the cameraman... Just instructions...

Didn't you find it astounding? Just tell me in one sentence...

It certainly made me think.

I'm in a delicate situation.

I'm not sure what I'm doing or why.

So... so I decided to leave.

Thomas wanted to talk to me about it.

Last night he told me

I was wrong to leave, that he was starting to do

what he wanted to from the start,

and that it would be interesting.

In an article Tunnat wrote:

"Waiting to die, the victims sang and prayed."

This happened in Lithuania.

"Waiting to die they sang and prayed." Did you see this?

Yes.

You heard this?

Can you describe it? - I didn't hear what Tunnat heard.

I heard it my way.

These poor people

were always talking to God

while waiting to die.

According to Tunnat, who isn't nasty towards these people,

"The women were executed in their underwear."

That's what happened? - I can't say. I never saw it myself.

But it's possible Tunnat did.

Men had to take off their jackets, women had to take off their dresses.

Is that true? You never saw that?

The women were in underwear.

And the men?

They were in... I don't want to talk about this now.

You don't?

I'm rather upset.

Here's something interesting.

The sound's on?

I have here

a report from the Gestapo,

the original,

and here is something I didn't know:

when Filbert's unit, Commando 9, arrived in Grodno,

which was in Poland near the Lithuanian border,

Filbert took command

of the Lithuanian soldiers,

and began the massacres from the first day:

93 Jewish intellectuals etc.,

with the Lithuanians.

This is in contradiction to what he's said.

Here it is in his own words! The original!

Mr. Sunshine!

See you later. - See you later.

There was a German prosecutor named Neumann, in Paris during the war.

He must've rendered judgments here.

I wasn't in Paris during the war.

I was in the south.

In the South you were better off!

You're well? - Very well.

I don't recognize her!

He wants Thomas. Maybe you can get him to his dressing room?

He won't go.

You come with me to your dressing room? - No.

I'm waiting for Mr. Harlan.

He'll meet us there.

My twin! - How are you?

My twin! - Please don't harp on about that.

How are you? - Very well!

Even better than before. - What's he say?

I've become colder toward him,

while accepting that he lives,

and not wanting him to be harmed.

I'd be pleased if he went home

with some self-awareness.

I'm sure it won't ever happen.

But I've changed:

there's nothing that stops me from being nice to him.

I have a fury

so complete...

I can even eat with him again.

Before, that was hard.

Now it's not a problem.

I looked at myself in the mirror

and I saw I would always treat him like a man.

I'm not obliged to do otherwise.

He and my father are the same.

Except I found my father sympathetic. I loved him.

Filbert doesn't move me.

His old-world graciousness is touching.

He's polite,

but I know who he respects and who he doesn't.

I wouldn't want to be

the person

who insulted the Nazis during the war!

You could talk to my father.

He never persecuted anyone. But being nice doesn't mean much.

Generosity is a character trait

that has little to do with the system you live in.

He could be my father. I'm making a film about my father,

We're all working together

on a movie about this kind of father:

They persist, they aren't throwbacks,

they aren't fossils.

They still threaten us.

Young people will recognize their fathers

and know their father's plot against them.

So many say, "My father won't talk!"

They don't want to be such a son,

and they may die of that, of not having a father.

The fathers never told what happened.

Few kids know their father

as I know mine. It was hard.

Did you know there was Jewish slave labor

whose job was to empty the mass graves

before being executed themselves?

Did you know there's only one photo

of this Jewish work crew

who were commanded

by SS officers?

Do you know this is the only photo that exists

of this Jewish slave labor crew?

Who are these men here?

The ones in the snow, how would you describe them?

They were the gravediggers called shadows

in the slang of SS unit 1005.

They dug up the dead and fed the bones

into this bone-grinder.

This machine crushed the bones

from the mass graves.

This is a bone-grinder.

Please repeat this name: bone-grinder.

Bone-grinder.

I don't understand. - I told them you were upset

by these stories. We all need a break.

And how!

There's hard work to come.

Horrible!

That's why we spend so long on such things.

What those bastards did!

We'll change the subjects.

Here's the only photo of the Jewish work crew from Kulmhof,

who had to dig up the dead and put them into this machine.

The machine ground them into bone-flour.

This flour was sold to a fish farm at Auschwitz,

and those carp ate bone-flour from all Russia.

Flour from five million humans

went to a man at Auschwitz. He's still alive.

He owns a chain of laundromats

around Lake Constance.

He's named Caesar. He raised the carp at Auschwitz,

feeding them bone-flour.

At Kulmhof it was dumped in the river.

Elsewhere it was put in sacks:

the best food for the new race of carp

that Himmler was raising at Auschwitz.

Very upset by such stories, he said:

"Stop talking about those bastards and what they did to me!"

Tomorrow we'll talk tulips or Mona Lisa,

about his brother, his drawings, we'll relax a little.

How good to see clear!

We're on our way!

There he was and I loved him.

I didn't know then

who I loved.

Maybe I don't know even today.

My father was so charming.

Last night two people said to me:

"How can you be so cruel

to that old man who trusts you so?"

Why did my father, who was so charming, never see

that Lublin wasn't so charming?

The ghetto was "charming!"

That was just too much!

I can't accept that he was happy.

That's what happened yesterday on the set:

Filbert was feeling his pleasure

at being alive.

At certain moments happiness is contemptible.

It's the highest form of insensitivity.

No charm cancels the stupidity of that happiness.

When shot, they fell into the trench?

The people fell on top of each other?

They fell on top of each other.

They fell backwards

into the grave

and they fell on top of each other.

Please look to your right. Who do you see in the TV?

Myself.

Look into the camera.

What is the movie on the TV?

You know this movie?

It's called "Immensee".

Who directed it? - The director was Veit Harlan.

Tell me:

Where was your HQ attacked?

In Vilna.

In Vilna.

It was a NKWD building before that,

it was a huge old place.

Try holding the gun like this.

It isn't loaded, is it?

Like this?

And what did the judge say

when he sentenced me?

That if I had killed even one Jew...

I said "No! I didn't do it... I wasn't even there."

The judge said that killing even one Jew

was murder and would get me prison for life.

That's how it is.

So a lot of people must be doing life terms!

All the Berlin police. - Many others too.

The cops could direct traffic in jail.

We can talk more tomorrow.

Last night you were late for dinner,

and now you have to get your make-up off

if you want to be on time.

Sorry.

Who's that for? - For Dr. S.

For him!

You got to the point of giving him flowers!

They're not from me.

You didn't buy them for me?

What's with these flowers?

Thomas had them sent in,

to make things pleasant. It's S's birthday today.

There's even a big cake over there.

He puts down the coffee cup.

You decide if he drinks his coffee, blows the candles.

And after he's seated,

there's a traveling shot back.

So the questioning starts

as the camera withdraws.

He puts his coffee aside:

the image must show a transition

from pleasure to starting work.

Why's he doing that to me?

Why are you doing this? - What?

Robert asks why you do this?

It's joke time!

Just for fun.

I'll whisper the rest in your ear.

Like polite guests, we'll be quiet,

then our talk will begin. - And my voice level?

Soft as possible.

As soft as your courage and strength permit.

We can start.

Please don't show any surprise.

Begin with the phrase "I was born on..."

I was born on September 8th, 1905.

The German court sentenced you to?

Life imprisonment.

The word "liquidation"?

What does "liquidation of German-ness" mean?

I don't know.

What is "German-ness"?

"German-ness" is obvious. It's when one thinks,

feels and acts as a German.

Another word for "physical liquidation of the enemy"?

I don't know. I don't know this expression.

What does "liquidation of Polish identity" mean?

This has nothing to do with me!

I'm showing Robert the ones you like.

Why? - Because he's interested too.

Oh yeah? - You don't want me to?

No.

Robert can't see them?

He can see them later.

What's he say? - "Robert looks at the photos after."

Okay, you can look at the pictures later.

You can look at them after.

He's being temperamental!

You're going to be late getting home. - It's not important.

And I've just had my break.

Why do I always have to look into that thing?

And the photos? - I want to look.

Should the video stop? - Is it worthwhile shooting video now?

He's asking: must you shoot video now?

It bugs him that you shoot while he looks at the photos.

He wants to be left alone to look,

in peace and quiet, but now he always has to look into the camera.

You don't have to look. - But he told me I had to.

Did you tell him to look in the camera?

You just make your statement.

After having suffered a great deal for ten years,

first waiting for my trial,

and then in my prison cell,

I no longer had any hope.

Even though I thought of my family.

I came to the decision...

Wait! Not yet, read the text to the end.

I decided to commit suicide.

The world seemed too horrible...

Don't do it yet.

Now you say...

Please take it in your hands,

the plastic sack.

Look in the camera a moment.

Now please put on the sack.

Don't say anything! Keep looking.

Please look into the camera calmly. Don't make a sound.

No noise yet.

Now please look down at the bag.

Slip it over your head, but don't say anything.

Now tell me all about it.

How long can one hold out inside the sack?

How long can one hold on?

Now you can take it off. Take it off!

Look at the camera, please.

Now tell me, what did our friend the baron say?

He said that when the State is attacked

it has every right to defend itself.

I don't agree. What's your opinion?

Can the state liquidate terrorists

who have killed people, attacked the army, etc.?

To defend itself, can the state also kill?

I prefer not to judge.

If the State can or cannot, the State alone can decide.

I can't take a position, I'm too insignificant.

If you remember,

you had the same problem before,

with the executions in Vilna.

The State chose to dispose of people's lives,

whether you agreed or not.

You accepted that one must obey the state.

When the state

that you have pledged allegiance to under oath...

and...

when the whole general staff

knew exactly what each order meant,

and no general ever said these orders were unjust,

during the meeting with Hitler, before we invaded Russia...

None of these great generals

ever said anything.

What's a little worm like me supposed to say?

This is an injustice and it's painful

that I have to carry out the orders.

I want to repeat this,

that the state became so violent

because Hitler gave it absolute power.

Those of us who had joined the Nazi party,

we were members,

we would have quit if we'd known

the kind of orders we'd be given.

But we couldn't leave.

Where could I go with my family?

To a concentration camp? My children

taken away from me?

That's a hard thing to ask!

Those who lived it know what they had to do.

If I had no family I know what I'd have done.

Talk is cheap... - Please look in the camera.

My unit advanced from Warsaw.

We stayed a night in Treuburg.

Please go a little to your left...

I mean to your right...

Draw a line to the photo. Right up to the photo.

Continue above the photo.

That's very good.

You see the photo. Do you know that man?

Just say yes or no. - Yes.

Can you tell me his name?

Not what he does, only his name.

Do you know the man on your right, below?

A little further on. Know him?

Yes. - Do you know his name?

How about his face?

Don't you know his name?

You don't remember Mr. Kramer?

Can we have some quiet please?

He was afraid for you. - You can die quick.

I've learned you must do that instead of other things.

Other things?

Rather than aim violence at others

it's better to aim it at oneself.

I don't understand.

Forget it. Tell him I'm...

I just couldn't hear you.

Okay, but I can't talk now.

What does he think about the photo of my daughter Keja?

The one I showed him yesterday.

Does he see why I ask him? - Very beautiful.

Certainly. I'm thinking of my grandson.

Me too.

She'll be happy when I'm back.

I'm her only grandfather.

She's a very sweet child.

She's 11 years old.

She does very well at school.

It's beautiful

when one is lucky with one's family.

Okay, let's cut it.

No, wait. Don't cut yet.

It's true, he was lucky with his family.

It would have been awful if that too had failed.

Tell him: most people

weren't as lucky as he was.

If one wants harmony,

one has to learn

how to live with one another.

My wife loves her two children,

she loves her two sons very much.

I do too of course, but a mother is always a mother.

Not like a father who's mostly absent.

How many kids did you kill?

Excuse me? - How many kids did he kill?

I never killed children. - He says none.

I was only present for the execution of men.

That was quite enough for me.

We got the order to include women and children too.

I told them to get someone else to do it for them.

We'll stop now, but we'll end by saying he was lucky

to have been there only for the execution of men.

I could never understand how an American officer...

was able to kill women and children...

in the last war that the Americans were in.

We did it easily in Vietnam.

Without problems?

Without scruples.

When I was in Vilna,

I looked for a doctor to give me

some sick leave, so I could get out of it all.

And I can swear before God

I never shot a single person.

Despite the fact that

I was ordered to do so...

All officers were to kill at least once.

Would you be so kind?

I signed mine.

Will you or won't you?

If he doesn't want to, he can say so.

Please, Jimmy!

Of course not.

You don't want to?

It's a very delicate affair.

Fine, because you don't want to...

Henri's got to sign too.

I signed already. I wrote a little note.

If you ask me...

But if this poses problems for him,

I won't ask him to sign.

Contrary to what I thought about him even last week,

when he attacked me with stories

about what he'd done,

raping women when he was in power, all that,

today he waited until everybody

left the dressing-room,

and then he came up to me and embraced me.

He kissed me, then he began to cry.

He said:

maybe I was the only person he could count on

to say things to,

things he's unable to say,

and will never be able to say for the film.

He told me he's cracking, he's crying

because he's tortured by all that's happened

in his life.

And he's had the same nightmare for 40 years

every night, every single night.

And that in this movie he's forced to say

his only regret is having lost his position in the SS.

He's being made into something.

He's being tortured...

We're doing really monstrous things

and he has no idea, he doesn't know

what the purpose of this movie is.

He feels he has a truth to tell and we won't let him.

I spent years

working like a dog

and look what I got out of it!

To this day I have no contact

with my sister-in-law.

One day they brought me my brother's file, secretly.

An officer brought it to me.

I opened it and there on the first page,

in Himmler's own writing, in his brown ink:

First, after jail my brother goes

to concentration camp.

Second, no further promotion for me.

Third, I am to write a confidential report

on my own family.

Signed, Himmler.

You have showed much courage.

Of course

I have suffered a lot.

So did my parents, especially them.

My father

organized for the Nazis, my mother was in the Nazi Women's League

and I was in the SS.

"The fatherland will reward you."

Oh yes...

Trying to help my brother,

I talked to a man I knew:

Piffrader, he'd been in the foreign legion.

I talked to him...

He'd been Muller's deputy at the Gestapo.

Panzinger was the other,

and they replaced Muller

when he went on vacation.

Let's go back to something:

the courage of the prison guard

who let you see your brother for the last time.

The last time I saw my brother was at Dessau prison.

How was he?

He already had edema,

I was told.

The edema got so bad

that his body was swollen from holding in the water.

I can't go on.

We really loved each other when we were kids,

and now it was so hard to see him

in that condition, in prison.

And my brother's children,

the older one lives in America

he has a good job,

in Philadelphia.

The youngest became German.

After the war they could choose their nationality.

The older was an MP

with the occupation forces in Germany.

I still suffer today, it still hurts very much,

because I was a part of

that society,

so I feel responsible

for what happened to my brother.

Like others, he had a horrible and tragic fate.

On top of that,

my wife's sister was burned to death

in a bombing raid, trapped in a Berlin cellar.

It was horrible.

Have I been cut?

So in 1942,

his brother was put in Buchenwald and never returned.

His tears were provoked by the vision

of his brother and himself.

I imagined I'd pushed him when he burst into tears,

so I wanted to know what really set him off.

I tried to find out.

It was a total surprise.

I never would have believed

that this subject could touch him.

I said: that's not his tragedy.

His tragedy isn't tied to his family feeling.

Family feelings were an excuse to cry,

but seeing his brother in prison

means for Filbert no more promotions in the SS.

Incredible! Just before we cut, he said:

"Me too, I am responsible

for everything that has been done

against myself,

a person who never got the position he deserved."

So he's crying about his own fate.

That and only that!

That's the conclusion of the scene we shot.

Last words before we cut.

I thought that if he cried for himself,

it wasn't out of sadness for his roasted sister-in-law,

roasted is his word, "a little roast,

in her little red coat

that had shriveled up, tiny, tiny."

We talked about this in the suffocation scene:

"roast, tiny, very red."

He returns to these three images: his brother, his sister-in-law, death.

His career was over by the time he worked for the police.

You see how it all fits?

I think we could go back over this,

because we all witnessed the tears.

We saw them run down his cheeks.

And in my enormous innocence,

I thought this man was crying

for all his murders.

A real human being on the set!

We could imagine that we were in front of a human being, who cries!

Who realizes his crimes!

It wasn't that.

Our feelings are different than his.

He cries for himself. - We don't know these tears.

If one of us didn't speak German,

we might imagine that a man was confronting his life,

not necessarily breaking down, but facing up to it.

But he's never faced up to it, never.

I don't really resemble Dr. S.

I think they've hired another stand-in.

Does that make you feel bad?

Well, sure it does.

And then no, not at all!

Now I'm free to do more important things, more interesting for an actor.

And then, "No, nothing at all.

I don't regret anything."

"Not the good, not the bad,

It's all the same to me."

"I've paid a lot, I've swept it away,

forgotten it all, and I'm through with the past!"

Okay, that's it?

I see people talking again.

How can one rip out those vocal cords to get silence?

Is it really impossible? - I'll give it a try.

As soon as I move, look what happens.

It's moved again. Put it back.

Don't move him, we'll move the text.

From here I can't see it right.

The text isn't in the light.

I declare that

I was a member of Special Unit 1005,

called the Welterkommando,

and our duties included...

Unburying... - unburying,

excavation and incineration,

around the mass graves.

When he hesitates Heike, don't slow down.

Yes, unburying, excavation and incineration.

The word unburying is hard, no?

Yes, it is. - Excavation and incineration...

Never heard of that. - Burying, unburying.

It's not an ordinary word.

Excavation and... - Burying,

I can understand, but... - We'll use unburying when we do it.

So, unburying, excavation...

Hold on. Everybody in place.

Can we begin again at incineration? - Unburying,

excavation and incineration

around the mass graves.

Secondly, participation in executions.

Participating in executions as grave

diggers.

That is... - That is.

When the civilian prisoners

finished digging up the dead

and counting them,

they had to be killed as witnesses to a...

a state secret of the Reich. Is that right?

A state secret of the Reich.

We were forced to kill them.

A dirty trick! To have forced these

poor people to kill themselves.

Pushing them to crime, then making them punish themselves.

"Go kill yourselves," just as a thank you!

Allers, who directed this

is a lawyer for the Hamburg shipyards. - I'll be damned.

And what does the German government say?

Ask them.

There were three trials. He's a lawyer, he's ill.

And because of what my brother said against Hitler,

I spent 18 years in prison!

And now! - I've lost my eyesight

because of these problems! - Thank you very much.

And the nervous exhaustion!

Yes, thank you.

All of these kinds of actions, all this stuff...

I didn't do it.

About the gassing: Allers was head of the unit

responsible for action 14-F-13 in the hospitals,

where 180,000 people were killed

by gas. - They said...

these people were mentally ill.

First they were insane, then they were communists.

Seen as crazy because they were communist.

The insane became Jews, Polish intellectuals became insane etc.

Allers ran this program to the end, then he ran shipyards.

That's it. - Not a single trial.

These people were supposed to kill themselves,

obeying the oath: "My honor is my loyalty."

About 200 killed themselves, all but 10.

Now I'm almost convinced,

because of what happened,

they knew what I thought and wanted me

to commit suicide after that action.

He's asking me what I think.

Wait!

He asks me what I think.

I'm not very interested in the details

you discuss with Mr. Harlan.

These are specifics:

aspects more relevant to professionals of the period.

I think you are guilty of great crimes against humanity.

At the same time you are old...

I have a certain respect for you.

Thanks for your frankness! I won't answer that!

Thanks for being so frank. Lovely! Marvelous!

It's not true? - So your opinion is that I'm guilty

of I crime I was forced into!

What I'm saying isn't true?

Thank you! - No, he's furious.

Are you plugged in?

Now connect Thomas's transmitter.

And this movie has been made

to burn into the earth and in the heavens

the fragment of truth

that we can find inside this barbarian,

who has remained a barbarian.

You're not facing a human being.

You see the earthly remains of a man who no longer exists,

and who never did exist as a man.

He's one of the worst individuals the earth has seen,

and he's unlucky enough not to know it.

Today I confront him

with a massacre he committed.

He doesn't know I know about it.

I've studied his story. I know it better than he does,

because I haven't forgotten.

I keep trying to learn.

In this story of his

there's a day at Vileyka in White Russia,

August 20th,

1941

when he brought 100 people to an open trench...

He killed those 100 people. In all he's killed about 100,000.

100 people in Vileyka in front of a trench.

He himself gave the order,

because he was a senior officer, the chief

responsible for all of Lithuania and White Russia.

A miracle happened: two people got away.

Know him?

A unit commanded by Filbert

arrested 100 Jews between Vitebsk and Vileyka.

That's not true! - Stopping by a forest

already used to bury Russian workers.

Tunnat secured the terrain,

while Filbert directed the firing squad.

The wounded were finished off by rifle...

That was Tunnat's unit!

Tunnat was sent there by the general!

They were shot at in bursts,

and then there was firing with machine guns.

Suddenly two men ran...

Wait, you say your side Afterwards. Two men ran...

There was a huge burst of gunfire...

All lies! I was never even there!

I was...

commander in Vitebsk, not Vileyka.

And what about Vilna?

I refuse to talk about that.

I talked enough at my trial.

Do you recognize these men?

One among them might have escaped

miraculously at Vileyka.

My God! - Do you recognize them?

Ask them if they recognize me.

Do you know one of these men?

It has been said that there's a witness to the executions.

I've been tried. I was given life imprisonment

That's enough! - I'm not talking about your trial...

Please stop.

I want to ask you this... - I'm going to leave right now!

Please come back. We can't just stop!

Please come back.

I won't.

I'll take his wig off!

You wanted it done! I'll do it!

I swear to God I never shot anyone!

You must answer me.

Why?

I ask you to look into the camera.

I've always faced you with my camera.

Look at the camera.

I don't want to anymore! It's over!

Say that into the camera.

Have the courage to face me!

I'll read it. - I wasn't there.

Remember the judgment? "In the name of the people..."

I won't look. - It's the original.

I know what's there. - So don't say it's not there.

You can't use my judgment. - You claim it's not there!

"Filbert sent Tunnat with the Jewish prisoners

to dig a mass grave." That's from the judgment.

Filbert asked Tunnat to read the order

and the Jews were executed.

When one starts a work, one should finish it.

Will you return to the stage?

This scares you so much you'll even lie?

I'm not afraid! - You're sneaking away!

What was your part in this?

Reading your judgment I see things that shock me!

You told me the judges said you hadn't killed anyone.

Not true!

Six witnesses say you participated in the executions.

You told me you fired.

Come, I'll explain! - Look at all the people here!

I'm not alone with you.

You said something untrue. You lied to me!

I did not! - You said something false.

You said you never fired. It's written!

I ask you... - You're a coward to do this here!

You're the coward who's afraid to talk

in front of us here. - About lies?

I'm lying?

Me? 1000's were killed by you and your men.

You did it yourself or you ordered it done.

Now I know you lied... - I'll tell you the truth.

Go right ahead! - Not here.

You have to do it in front of all of us! Come along, please.

I've said "please"!

What's the meaning of this?

This is violence!

Please come with me. Don't touch me!

You're touching me!

You're responsible here. - I'm responsible for myself.

Don't pull my arm. I've never done that to you.

Come back inside with us.

Careful with his glasses...

His costume for the film...

I do it gently.

I've been badly hurt.

This came from Auschwitz!

My brother was in Buchenwald,

and he's dead. - It's your own men who killed him!

Absurd!

My whole family was killed.

Roasted in the ovens!

I didn't do it!

You didn't? You killed 8,000 people!

I didn't do it! - You gave orders, you shot...

I never killed anyone!

That's a lie! You lied to us!

No I haven't.

You've lied to all of us.

I don't agree!

We're not wild animals!

If he agrees to talk, okay, but no violence.

I've been wounded again.

Because you fight and try to get out.

You know no one leaves while we're shooting!

Translate.

He says he's wounded.

He says, "You hit me." I said he's been lying to us.

He says that at his trial he never killed, but here's the proof!

He killed on July 10th, 1941.

He began shooting people himself! Here's proof!

10 minutes ago he said: "Don't talk about my trial.

Don't talk about my judgment."

which is the eyewitness account of his crimes! He's admitted

that he was one of the nine people

who met with Heydrich on October 28, 1939,

where the Final Solution was decided:

death to all Polish intellectuals,

liquidation of the Polish clergy and the Jews.

This was decided not in 1942, but on October 28, 1939,

six weeks after the war began. A conference with Heydrich,

all the heads of departments,

and he was one of the nine founders of genocide!

He was there, and he was arrested.

What did you ask me? - We'll talk in front of everybody.

Go on whipping them up!

I'm only translating.

You're exciting them. - What did he say?

He says: "What you do to me is shameful.

You incite them against me.

I'm disgusted with you."

Where'd you find him? - We found him...

Where'd you find him? - In Berlin,

in his apartment. A lawyer told me he was alive.

Later, on the set,

we heard that the old Nazi was willing to continue.

Nothing too serious,

we'd make some apologies and he'd be back, ready to shoot.

And some months later,

when one of the crew saw him in Berlin,

the Dr. confided

in a friendly, even intimate way, that after all,

this experience with the movies had been the greatest moment of his life,

And that, well, that's quite a number, no?

He stopped singing.

He was touched.

He cracked!

Maybe he didn't really crack.

You thought that?

I thought you'd sing with him.

We could have sung...

Shut the door! They'll chew us out.

I prefer The Internationale.

I know the words better.

I don't know Heili-Heilo.

I'm not going to sing alone.

They'll chew us out! What a life!

What do you think? Shall we go on?

We work until the end of the week?

With such a nice crew we could

shoot another one. - It was crazy, but it was different.

Exactly. We all came out of it okay,

and I hope the movie does too.

Can we have absolute silence?