Original subtitles

Narrator: JESUS CHRIST IS THE KEY FIGURE

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, THE SON OF GOD.

THE STORIES OF HIS HEALINGS, MIRACLES, AND EVEN ARREST

AND CRUCIFIXION ARE LEGENDARY,

BUT WHO WAS HE?

WAS HE REALLY YESHUA BEN JOSEPH,

AND WAS HE THE KING OF THE JEWS OR JUST A HUMBLE CARPENTER?

DID HE HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH MARY MAGDALENE,

AND WHAT EVENTUALLY HAPPENED TO JESUS?

WAS HE CRUCIFIED IN JERUSALEM, OR AS SOME CLAIM,

WAS HE SMUGGLED OUT OF THE CITY ALIVE,

AND ABOVE ALL, WHAT HISTORICAL EVIDENCE

IS THERE THAT ANY OF THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENED?

THE HISTORICAL JESUS IS A COMPLETE ENIGMA.

IT'S ALMOST AS IF HE DIDN'T EXIST.

WHAT WE HAVE IS A CHARACTER

THAT WAS CREATED HUNDREDS OF YEARS LATER.

HE WAS A RELIGIOUS LEADER.

HE WAS THE MESSIAH PROPHESIZED IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.

HE WAS THE SON OF GOD WHO CAME TO BECOME

THE CENTRAL FIGURE IN CHRISTIANITY.

THERE ARE TWO THINGS TO REALIZE ABOUT JESUS.

ONE, HE REALLY EXISTED,

AND TWO, HE WAS NOT REMOTELY LIKE THE JESUS OF THE GOSPELS.

ANY TRADITIONS ABOUT THE HISTORICAL JESUS

WERE PURELY ORAL,

SOMETHING CHRISTIANS MIGHT HAVE TALKED ABOUT.

THE GOSPEL WRITERS ALSO BORROWED STUFF FROM OTHER RELIGIONS.

♪♪

♪♪

-- Captions by VITAC -- www.vitac.com

CAPTIONS PAID FOR BY DISCOVERY COMMUNICATIONS

♪♪

THE JESUS OF THE BIBLE IS WELL-KNOWN,

HIS HEALINGS, HIS MIRACLES, HIS TRIAL, AND HIS CRUCIFIXION.

YOU WOULD PRESUME THAT ALL OF THOSE EVENTS

WOULD BE PART OF THE HISTORICAL RECORD,

BUT THE PROBLEM IS THEY AREN'T.

THE HISTORICAL JESUS IS SOMETHING OF A MYSTERY.

Gough: JESUS WAS A JEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADER

FROM 2,000 YEARS AGO.

THE CONVENTIONAL STORY IS THAT KINGS ANTICIPATED HIS BIRTH.

HIS MOTHER DIDN'T HAVE SEX.

IT WAS AN IMMACULATE CONCEPTION.

HE STARTS HIS MISSION AT 30. HE'S QUITE A REBEL.

THE ROMANS GET A BIT, YOU KNOW, WORRIED ABOUT HIM.

HE'S CRUCIFIED, DIED AND IS RESURRECTED THREE DAYS LATER.

WELL, PERSONALLY, I WOULDN'T SAY THAT THE JESUS AS WRITTEN

AND EVOKED IN THE BIBLE DID EXIST IN THAT WAY

'CAUSE HE DID ALL SORTS OF MIRACLES,

AND HE KIND OF FLOATED UP TO HEAVEN AND BACK DOWN AGAIN.

I DON'T THINK ANY OF THAT HAPPENED,

BUT I THINK WE CAN SAY THAT THE HISTORICAL JESUS

AS IN SOMEONE FOR WHOM THERE'S EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE

THAT HE ACTUALLY EXISTED IS TRUE.

WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW FROM THE GOSPELS

IS HE WAS AN APOCALYPTIC PREACHER

FROM A PARTICULARLY ROUGH END OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, GALILEE,

GOT HIMSELF INTO TROUBLE WITH THE PRIESTS IN JERUSALEM,

CRUCIFIED BY THE ROMANS AND DIED,

AND THAT'S ALL WE KNOW FOR CERTAIN

ABOUT THE HISTORICAL JESUS.

♪♪

Narrator: SO WHAT REFERENCES TO JESUS ARE THERE

IN THE WRITINGS OF THE TIME?

WHAT ARE THE FACTS THAT A WHOLE RELIGION HAS BEEN BASED ON?

THERE IS LITTLE HARD EVIDENCE.

FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS,

A JEWISH HISTORIAN FROM THE TIME OF JESUS,

ONLY MAKES TWO REFERENCES TO HIM,

AND ONE OF THESE IS DEBATABLE.

JOSEPHUS' WRITINGS COVER A NUMBER OF FIGURES

FAMILIAR TO BIBLE READERS.

HE DISCUSSED JOHN THE BAPTIST,

JAMES, THE BROTHER OF JESUS, PONTIUS PILATE,

THE HIGH PRIESTS AND THE PHARISEES,

BUT JESUS, THE SON OF GOD,

IS AT BEST ONLY MENTIONED TWICE.

HE WRITES ABOUT EVERYTHING,

EVERY LITTLE DETAIL ABOUT LIFE IN JUDEA

AT THIS TIME EXCEPT JESUS.

ACTUALLY, HE DOES MENTION THE WORD MESSIAH,

BUT EVEN THAT MENTION OF THE WORD MESSIAH TELLS SCHOLARS

THAT'S NOT WHAT A JEWISH MAN WOULD CALL THE CHRISTOS.

HE DOESN'T CALL IT CHRISTIANITY,

SO IT'S AN INDICATION THAT IT'S A FRAUD THAT WAS ADDED LATER.

THE JEWISH MESSIAH WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PURE

AND SIMPLE A GREAT MILITARY LEADER

WHO WOULD KICK THE ROMANS OUT,

AND OBVIOUSLY JESUS FAILED ON THAT COUNT TOTALLY,

BUT THE WHOLE IDEA OF BEING THE SON OF GOD

WAS GRAFTED ON BY HIMSELF

AND/OR THE EARLY CHRISTIANS.

♪♪

Narrator: IN THE EPISTLES OF ST. PAUL

WRITTEN 25 YEARS AFTER JESUS' DEATH,

IT'S CLAIMED THAT JESUS WAS EXECUTED BY PILATE.

WE KNOW FOR A FACT THAT PONTIUS PILATE DID EXIST,

AND THE ROMAN WRITER TACITUS WROTE ABOUT A CHRISTOS,

BUT IT WOULD APPEAR THAT ALL MENTIONS OF CHRIST OR JESUS

WERE ACTUALLY SECONDHAND RETELLINGS OF OTHER ACCOUNTS.

NOTHING AT ALL WAS DIRECT.

Gough: THE ROMAN HISTORIAN TACITUS IS INTERESTING

'CAUSE HE USES THE RIGHT PHRASE, THE CHRISTOS,

BUT THE EARLIEST COPY WE HAVE OF WHAT HE WROTE

IS THE 11th CENTURY.

THE FIRST REFERENCE OF HIS WORK IS THE 15th CENTURY,

SO IT JUST ADDS TO THE BELIEF THAT THIS IS, IN HINDSIGHT,

SOMEONE ADDING SOME ELEMENTS TO HIS WRITING,

TALKING ABOUT CHRISTIANITY THAT THEY HAD LEARNED

AND HEARD ABOUT MUCH AFTER THE EVENT.

IT'S EXTRAORDINARY BECAUSE RELIGION DEMANDS CERTAINTY,

AND THE ONE THING WE DON'T HAVE ABOUT JESUS IS CERTAINTY.

THE STORY THAT WE NOW HAVE WAS MANUFACTURED

DECADES AND HUNDREDS OF YEARS LATER.

THE VERY FIRST REFERENCES WE HAVE IN THE GOSPELS

DON'T COME UNTIL 60 YEARS AFTER HIS DEATH,

AND THE TEXTS GO THROUGH MANY, MANY EVOLUTIONS,

SO THE PROCESS OF MAKING JESUS INTO CHRIST, THE GOD,

IS A LONG ONE HAPPENING ALL OVER THE ROMAN EMPIRE FOR CENTURIES.

♪♪

Narrator: IF THE JESUS CHRIST IN THE BIBLE

WAS ACTUALLY BASED ON REAL PEOPLE AND REAL PLACES,

THEN THE SO-CALLED GARDEN TOMB IN JERUSALEM

IS A GOOD PLACE TO VISIT.

INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER JAMIE THEAKSTON

IS TRYING TO FIND THE TRUTH

ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OF THE HISTORICAL JESUS.

DR. EYAL MIRON IS A LEADING JEWISH SCHOLAR

AND HAS AGREED TO SHOW HIM THIS HISTORICAL SITE.

♪♪

SO THIS IS THE GARDEN TOMB. IS THAT RIGHT?

YES, INDEED. THIS IS THE GARDEN TOMB,

AND ACTUALLY, WHAT THEY HAVE HERE

IS A TOMB SUPPOSEDLY FROM THE SECOND TEMPLE PERIOD

WHICH WAS PROBABLY THE TOMB WHERE JESUS WAS BURIED IN.

RIGHT, SO THE TOMB ITSELF PREDATES JESUS.

NOW IN ACTUALITY,

THE TOMB ITSELF BELONGS TO THE FIRST TEMPLE PERIOD

WHICH IS MUCH, MUCH EARLIER THAN THE TIME OF JESUS.

I'D SAY ABOUT 800 YEARS BEFORE THE TIME OF JESUS.

RIGHT.

BUT IT HAS BEEN ALTERED SINCE THEN.

WHAT YOU SEE IN FRONT OF YOU AT THE MOMENT ARE THE CARVINGS

AND TOOLINGS OF THE BEDROCK DONE DURING THE CRUSADER ERA

INCLUDING, FOR INSTANCE, THIS BEAUTIFUL CHANNEL

WHICH IS ACTUALLY A TROUGH USED BY THE CRUSADERS

FOR THEIR HORSES AND DONKEYS.

THERE WAS A STABLE HERE IN THE 12th CENTURY.

YOU SEE, THIS IS KIND OF HOW I'D IMAGINED

JESUS' TOMB TO LOOK LIKE.

-MM-HMM. -BUT MAYBE WITH A BIG --

WAS THERE A ROCK THAT WAS ROLLED IN FRONT OF THE TOMB?

WELL, YOU'D EXPECT TO HAVE THE ROCK HERE, ROLLING STONE,

ACCORDING TO WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE BURIAL

DURING THE SECOND TEMPLE PERIOD,

AND THAT WAS AT LEAST NOT A TYPICAL WAY OF BURIAL,

BUT YOU FIND IT IN SOME MAJOR SITES, MAJOR BURIAL SITES.

Narrator: THE GARDEN TOMB IN JERUSALEM

EXISTED IN JESUS' TIME.

IT EVEN HAD A LARGE ROLLING STONE AT THE FRONT

TO CLOSE IT OFF,

BUT DO SCHOLARS BELIEVE IT REALLY IS HIS TOMB,

AND WHAT DOES THIS TELL US ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OF JESUS

AT THIS TIME IN HISTORY?

♪♪

Narrator: MATCHING THE BELIEF IN JESUS

TO ACTUAL PHYSICAL SITES IN JERUSALEM

IS A DIFFICULT TASK, LIKE THE GARDEN TOMB

THAT IS BELIEVED TO BE HIS POSSIBLE BURIAL SITE.

IT LOOKS RATHER GRAND.

IS THAT HOW A MAN OF JESUS' STATURE WOULD HAVE BEEN BURIED?

WELL, ACTUALLY, IT IS QUITE SMALL.

IGNORE THE FACADE HERE.

THIS WAS DONE MUCH,

MUCH LATER THAN THE TIME OF THE BURIAL HERE.

DURING THE BURIAL PERIOD, THAT WOULD BE A ROCK STOP,

AND THERE WOULD BE A NICE LITTLE HOLE HERE OPENING

INTO A VERY SMALL AND COZY CHAMBER FOR BURIAL,

AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU IN A MOMENT,

SO IT WAS ACTUALLY QUITE SMALL, AND PEOPLE LIKE JESUS,

EVEN THOUGH HE WAS TRIED AS A REBEL

AND EVEN THOUGH HE WAS CRUCIFIED,

THEY WOULD BE TURNED OVER TO THE FAMILIES

TO BE BURIED PROPERLY ACCORDING TO JEWISH CUSTOM.

WE DO KNOW THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE SUCH AN EXAMPLE IN ARCHAEOLOGY.

IN JERUSALEM IN THE 1970s,

THE SKELETON OF A JEW CALLED JEHOHANAN,

THE SON OF HAGKOL,

WAS DISCOVERED IN THE NORTH SIDE OF JERUSALEM,

AND AN 11-CENTIMETER NAIL

WAS ACTUALLY PIERCED INTO HIS HEEL BONE.

THIS IS THE ONLY ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE OF CRUCIFIXION

THAT WE HAVE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD,

AND HE WAS BURIED PROPERLY IN A TYPICAL JEWISH BURIAL PLACE.

I'D EXPECT THAT THE SAME HAPPENED WITH JESUS.

-CAN WE TAKE A LOOK INSIDE? -YES, OF COURSE.

PLEASE BE MY GUEST.

Picknett: THE GARDEN TOMB IS DEFINITELY

PART OF THE JESUS TOURISM,

THE THEME PARK THAT IS JERUSALEM,

BUT IT HAS CERTAIN ELEMENTS GOING FOR IT.

I MEAN, WE JUST DON'T KNOW

WHETHER IT WAS JESUS' TOMB OR NOT.

I MEAN, IT COULD HAVE BEEN.

IT CERTAINLY DATES FROM BEFORE HIS TIME.

IT COULD HAVE BEEN.

ONE MAJOR POINT, THOUGH, WITH ALL OF THESE PLACES --

EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT GENUINE,

THEY ARE HALLOWED BY BELIEF BY GENERATIONS OF BELIEVERS

WHO POUR THEIR FAITH AND THEIR EMOTION INTO IT.

♪♪

SO WHAT WE ACTUALLY SEE HERE IS ACTUALLY THE TOMB

FOLLOWING THE TIME OF JESUS IN THE BYZANTINE ERA.

THAT'S ABOUT 3, 400 YEARS LATER,

AND THESE ALTERATIONS MADE THE TOMB

LOOK THE WAY IT LOOKS TODAY

WITH THESE BATHTUBS OR TROUGHS FOR THE BURIAL OF THE BODIES.

WE HAVE ONE HERE, TWO THERE, THIRD ONE OVER THERE,

BUT ORIGINALLY, THE FIRST TEMPLE TOMB WOULD LOOK A BIT DIFFERENT.

THERE WOULD BE SHELVES ON WHICH THE BODIES WOULD BE PUT ON

JUST LIKE BED AT HOME.

IN YOUR OPINION, IS THIS THE TOMB OF JESUS?

IT'S VERY HARD TO TELL.

THE TOMB EXISTED IN THE TIME OF JESUS,

BUT ACCORDING TO THE NEW TESTAMENT

IN THE GOSPELS,

IT SAYS THAT JESUS WAS BURIED IN A NEW TOMB.

IN THE TIME OF JESUS, THIS TOMB WAS ALREADY 800 YEARS OLD.

SO THE EVIDENCE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT SUGGESTS

THAT THIS WASN'T JESUS' TOMB.

INDEED, INDEED.

THE GARDEN TOMB IS A FASCINATING ALTERNATIVE

FOR A TRUE SITE POTENTIALLY OF WHERE JESUS WAS BURIED,

AND YOU GO THERE TODAY, AND IT JUST FEELS RIGHT,

AND IT'S JUST VERY UNDERSTATED.

THE PEOPLE WHO SORT OF TAKE YOU AROUND THERE

AREN'T PUSHING IT DOWN YOUR THROAT

THAT THIS IS THE SITE WHERE HE WAS BURIED,

BUT IT'S THE KIND OF PLACE THAT LOOKS LIKE,

YOU KNOW, WHERE IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED,

AND BURIALS HERE GO BACK TO THE 5th CENTURY OR FURTHER B.C.,

SO IT REALLY TICKS A LOT OF BOXES.

♪♪

Narrator: IF THE EVIDENCE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT DOES, IN FACT,

RULE OUT THE GARDEN TOMB AS JESUS' BURIAL PLACE,

PERHAPS THE NEXT LOCATION

THAT JAMIE INVESTIGATES

WILL PROVE MORE PROMISING.

MANY CHRISTIANS BELIEVE THAT THE ACTUAL SITE

OF THE CRUCIFIXION AND THE BURIAL OF CHRIST

CAN BE FOUND IN THE CHURCH OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE

RIGHT IN THE HEART OF JERUSALEM.

COULD JESUS' BODY REALLY HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED

AND ENTOMBED ALL AT THE SAME LOCATION?

♪♪

-THIS IS IT. -WELL, YES, JAMIE, INDEED.

THIS IS THE HOLY SEPULCHRE CHURCH.

THEN YOU CAN SEE, IT IS INDEED QUITE BUSY TODAY.

FOR MANY CHRISTIANS ALL OVER THE WORLD,

THIS IS THE HOLIEST SITE ON EARTH.

THIS IS THE PLACE WHERE JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED.

THIS IS THE PLACE OF BURIAL,

AND IT IS ALSO THE PLACE OF RESURRECTION.

-CAN WE GO AND TAKE A LOOK? -BY ALL MEANS.

Narrator: SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT AT THE TIME OF JESUS,

THIS SITE WOULD HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE THE MUCH SMALLER

WALLED CITY OF JERUSALEM.

IF TRUE, THEN THE LOCATION IS SUPPORTED BY THE BIBLICAL CLAIM

THAT JESUS' TOMB WAS INDEED SOMEWHERE OUTSIDE OF THE CITY.

WELL, BASICALLY, JAMIE, WHAT WE SEE HERE IS THE UNCTION STONE.

ACCORDING TO THE GOSPEL OF JOHN, ONCE THE BODY OF JESUS

WAS TAKEN DOWN FROM THE CROSS, IT WAS LAID DOWN,

AND HIS DISCIPLES PREPARED IT FOR BURIAL.

ACCORDING TO THE LOCAL TRADITION,

THIS IS THE ACTUAL PLACE WHERE THAT TOOK PLACE,

AND THESE PILGRIMS COMING IN TOUCHING THE STONE,

RUBBING IT WITH ALL SORTS OF SOUVENIRS

THAT THEY WILL TAKE BACK HOME AS BLESSED SOUVENIRS.

MM-HMM. OKAY, SO THEY WOULD TOUCH THIS.

YOU CAN TOUCH IT. YES, OF COURSE.

AND PEOPLE WILL TRAVEL ALL AROUND THE WORLD

TO DO THIS, TO TOUCH THE STONE.

ABSOLUTELY.

IT'S THE PEAK OF THE EXPERIENCE HERE IN JERUSALEM,

THE ENTIRE HOLY SEPULCHRE CHURCH AND OF COURSE TOUCHING THE PLACE

WHERE THE BODY OF CHRIST ONCE LAID.

AND WHAT WOULD IN ORDER TO MEAN TO TOUCH THE STONE

OR TO RUB YOUR SOUVENIRS ON THE STONE,

THAT IT BECOMES BLESSED OR...

IT BECOMES BLESSED, YES, AND IT IS INDEED BELIEVED

ONE OF THE ONLY PLACES WHERE YOU CAN ACTUALLY TOUCH HOLINESS.

Selwood: YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE ROMANS RAZED JERUSALEM.

JOSEPHUS SAYS THAT ANYONE WHO WENT WOULD NEVER HAVE KNOWN

EVEN A CITY HAD BEEN THERE,

SO WHATEVER ARCHAEOLOGICAL VESTIGES

THERE WERE OF JESUS' TIME WERE GONE.

THE ROMANS WIPED THEM OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH.

WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT SITES NOW

THAT ARE THE HOLY SITES OF JERUSALEM,

ONE HAS TO BEAR THAT IN MIND AND REALIZE

THESE WERE RECOGNIZED LATER,

SO THE CHURCH OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE, FOR EXAMPLE,

IS A BYZANTINE CREATION BY THE EMPRESS HELENA.

THIS COMES ALONG IN THE 300s.

THAT'S THREE CENTURIES AFTER JESUS.

THE GARDEN TOMB IS DISCOVERED IN THE 20th CENTURY.

ALL OF THESE AREAS HAVE TRADITIONS

THAT GROW UP AROUND THEM,

BUT FUNDAMENTALLY, THEY ARE ALL LATER,

AND THEY ARE ADDED ONTO A CITY THAT HAD BEEN THOROUGHLY ERASED.

Narrator: THE EXAMINATION OF THE HISTORICAL EVIDENCE

VERSUS THE BELIEF OF JESUS' DEATH IN JERUSALEM

CONTINUES IN THE HOLY SEPULCHRE

WHERE IT IS CLAIMED HE WAS BURIED AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD,

BUT IS THIS LOCATION THE REAL PLACE

ACCORDING TO LEADING ARCHAEOLOGISTS?

♪♪

Narrator: THERE IS MUCH DEBATE OVER THE HISTORICAL SITES

CONNECTED TO JESUS CHRIST IN JERUSALEM.

BUT WHAT IS THE PROOF THAT THE CHURCH OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE

IS THE ACTUAL PLACE WHERE HE WAS CRUCIFIED

AND THEN BURIED?

OKAY. SO WHAT HAVE WE GOT IN HERE?

SO WE JUST ENTERED THE CHAPEL OF ADAM.

ACCORDING TO MEDIEVAL TRADITIONS, ON THIS ROCK,

THE ROCK OF GOLGOTHA, JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED,

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE THE ROCK ITSELF

PRESERVED BEHIND THIS LITTLE WINDOW.

ACCORDING TO LEGEND, THE SKULL OF ADAM

WAS ACTUALLY ENTOMBED RIGHT UNDER THE CROSS,

AND A DROP OF BLOOD CAME DOWN ON THE SKULL OF ADAM,

AND HE MOMENTARILY RESURRECTED. -HANG ON.

I THOUGHT THAT JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED ON CALVARY.

TRUE, CALVARY IS ACTUALLY THE NAME OF THE SITE.

IT COMES FROM THE WORD MEANING SKULL,

BUT WE ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT A ROCK STOP

ON WHICH HIS CROSS WAS POSITIONED,

AND THIS IS THE BASIS OF THAT ROCK STOP.

IN A MOMENT, WE'LL BE ON TOP OF THAT AT THE SITE OF CALVARY.

-RIGHT. -BUT THAT'S ALSO CALVARY.

OKAY.

IT'S A CHAPEL AT THE BASES OF CALVARY.

I THINK I UNDERSTAND, AND WHAT HAVE WE GOT NEXT?

-THE ACTUAL SITE OF THE CROSS. -SHOULD WE GO AND TAKE A LOOK?

YEP. LET'S GO.

Green: IT SEEMS RATHER CONVENIENT AND SUSPICIOUS

THAT IT'S SUCH A COMPACT SITE.

I MEAN, IT'S ALMOST LIKE A KIND OF DISNEY WORLD

FOR PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST.

YOU CAN GO THERE, GET YOUR FILL,

GET YOUR LITTLE SOUVENIRS AND THEN LEAVE,

AND MUCH OF THIS DATES BACK TO THE CRUSADES,

BUT THAT IN ITSELF WAS 1,000 YEARS AFTER THE EVENTS DEPICTED,

SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, EVEN, YOU KNOW,

THE MOST KIND OF WELL BELIEVING CHRISTIAN

WOULD BE ENTITLED TO FEEL A LITTLE BIT OF DOUBT, LIKE,

"HOW DO WE KNOW IT WAS THIS EXACT SPOT?"

♪♪

THIS IS QUITE SOMETHING, SO WHAT'S THIS?

THIS IS THE TOP OF THE ROCK WE'VE SEEN EARLIER

IN THE CHAPEL OF ADAM.

-RIGHT. -RIGHT.

WE WERE AT THE FOOT OF THE BEDROCK.

NOW WE'RE AT THE TOP OF THE ROCK STOP,

AND ACCORDING TO TRADITION,

THIS IS THE PRECISE LOCATION PLACE.

THIS LOOKS BEAUTIFUL, HUH?

YEAH, YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE JESUS IN THE MIDDLE.

YOU CAN SEE MARY, HIS MOTHER,

AND JOHN THE APOSTLE

AND THE INSCRIPTION ON TOP OF HIS HEAD

BASICALLY THE TITLE OF HIS CRIME.

RIGHT.

"CLAIMING TO BE THE KING OF THE JEWS,"

IN GREEK THAT'S IN AND HEBREW.

♪♪

McMahon: IDENTIFYING THE PLACE OF CRUCIFIXION

IS COMPLETELY GUESSWORK.

IT'S TAKING SCRIPTURE AND THEN TRYING TO BASICALLY CRAM

REAL PLACES INTO THE BIBLE,

AND WHEN YOU GO TO THE HOLY SEPULCHRE,

YOU THINK, "THIS DOESN'T LOOK LIKE

"WHERE JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED. IT'S NOT EVEN ON A HILL.

IT'S INSIDE THE CITY WALL. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE,"

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS ALL ABOUT FAITH.

♪♪

OKAY, JAMIE. WE ARE ENTERING THE HOLY OF HOLIES.

WOW. THIS IS IT.

THE HOLY SEPULCHRE CHURCH, THIS CHAMBER

IS THE CHAMBER OF THE ANGEL

WHERE THE WOMEN WHO CAME TO JESUS' TOMB

AFTER THE RESURRECTION SAW THE ANGEL WAITING FOR THEM,

AND THIS IS THE INNER SANCTUM.

THIS IS TRULY THE HOLY OF HOLIES FOR MANY CHRISTIANS.

THIS IS JESUS' TOMB HERE.

THIS IS JESUS' TOMB.

OH, WOW. THAT'S AMAZING.

I KNOW IT DOESN'T LOOK MUCH LIKE A TOMB

BECAUSE IT IS NOW COVERED WITH THESE SLABS,

STONE SLABS WHICH ARE MUCH, MUCH LATER THAN THE TIME OF

JESUS, BUT IT WAS TAKEN OUT A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO

BY AN ARCHAEOLOGICAL TEAM FROM ATHENS,

AND YES, THERE IS A TOMB UNDERNEATH,

AND IT IS A PART OF A CAVE IN WHICH

THIS IS JUST ONE OF THE BENCHES OR ONE OF THE PLACES

WHERE THE BODIES WOULD BE PUT ON.

SO AS FAR AS THE BIBLE IS CONCERNED

AND MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS AROUND THE WORLD,

THIS IS THE TOMB OF CHRIST. -INDEED.

FOR US AS HISTORIANS, ARCHAEOLOGISTS,

PEOPLE OF THE ACADEMY,

THIS IS A GENUINE JEWISH TOMB FROM AROUND THE TIME OF JESUS.

SO THE ONLY EVIDENCE,

ONLY ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE WE HAVE OF JESUS' TOMB

IS THE FACT THAT IT WAS A TOMB AT THE RIGHT TIME.

INDEED, AND IT'S NOT ALONE.

THERE ARE OTHER TOMBS AROUND US, AND THEY ALL BELONG

TO A CEMETERY FROM THE SECOND TEMPLE PERIOD.

REGARDLESS OF THE HISTORICAL EVIDENCE,

IT'S STILL AN EXTRAORDINARY PLACE.

-IT IS. -IT FEELS...

-TRUE. -YOU CAN'T HELP BUT FEEL...

-I TOTALLY AGREE. -IT'S A SPECIAL PLACE, RIGHT?

IT IS INDEED, INDEED.

A RATIONAL MIND RESPECTFULLY IS GONNA QUESTION

WHETHER OR NOT THE HISTORICAL SITE IS WHAT IT SAYS IT IS.

IS IT REALLY THE SITE OF THE CRUCIFIXION

AND THEN A FEW FEET WHERE HE WAS LAID DOWN

AFTER THE CROSS AND THEN BURIED?

IT IS UNCERTAIN WHEN THIS ALL BECAME A BIT OF A PILGRIM SITE,

BUT IT APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN A SYMBOLIC REPRESENTATION

FOR THE STORY WHICH ITSELF IS ALLEGORICAL,

BUT IT'S A SYMBOLIC REPRESENTATION

OF WHERE IT HAPPENED.

HISTORIANS TODAY WOULD TELL YOU, "NO, IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

"THEY ALL WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED IN THE SAME PLACE,

AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE THE CITY WALLS, NOT WITHIN."

♪♪

Narrator: THE PROBLEM WITH THE HISTORICAL JESUS IS,

WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?

YES, THE LOCATIONS, THE PHYSICAL PLACES THAT JESUS WAS SAID

TO HAVE VISITED DO EXIST, BUT WHAT SUBSTANTIATION IS THERE

THAT HE WAS ACTUALLY THERE AT THE RIGHT TIME?

MARTY FRIEDLANDER IS A LOCAL GUIDE IN JERUSALEM

WHO HAS AGREED TO SHOW JAMIE SOME OF THE KEY SITES THAT JESUS

IS SAID TO HAVE VISITED ACCORDING TO THE NEW TESTAMENT.

SO WHEN WE LOOK AT THE BIBLICAL EVIDENCE OF JESUS

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, WHAT DO THE GOSPELS TELL US

AND SPECIFICALLY IN TERMS OF WHERE WE ARE NOW?

OH, FUNNY YOU SHOULD MENTION IT.

JUST OVER THIS WALL BEHIND THAT BUILDING

IS THE BETHESDA POOL WHICH IS MENTIONED IN THE BOOK OF JOHN

WHERE JESUS PERFORMS HIS FIRST MIRACLE HERE IN JERUSALEM.

HE RESTORES A --

WELL, HE TAKES A HANDICAPPED GENTLEMAN

WHO HAS A HARD TIME GETTING TO THE POOL IN TIME.

APPARENTLY, THERE'S A RIPPLE OF THE WATER ONCE A DAY,

AND THE FIRST GUY WHO WAS ABLE TO JUMP IN, HE'LL BE HEALED.

OKAY, BUT IF WE DISCOUNT

THE MORE MIRACULOUS STORIES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

BECAUSE I WANT TO FOCUS MORE ON THE HISTORY.

-I WANT TO GET SOME PROOF -- -MM-HMM.

...OF JESUS' EXISTENCE, WHAT ELSE?

WHAT OTHER PLACES NEARBY WILL HELP US WITH THAT?

WELL, JUST OVER THAT WAY IS WHERE THE TEMPLE STOOD,

AND THAT, THE PLATFORM

ON WHICH THE DOME OF THE ROCK IS BUILT TODAY,

IT'S THE SAME PLATFORM ON WHICH JESUS AND EVERY OTHER JEW

WHO WAS MAKING A PILGRIMAGE UP TO JERUSALEM,

THEY WOULD HAVE WALKED ON. THAT'S LEGIT.

IS THERE ANY ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE OF JESUS' EXISTENCE?

THAT'S A TOUGH ONE,

AND I WOULD SAY THE ANSWER HAS GOT TO BE NO.

HAVE WE SCIENTIFIC PROOF THAT,

"YES, THIS IS THE CROSS ON WHICH HE WAS CRUCIFIED"?

-NO. -NO.

IT BOILS DOWN TO, DO YOU BELIEVE IT,

AND IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IT, THEN YOU'LL MAKE SURE

THAT YOU'LL WRAP YOUR SCIENTIFIC MIND AROUND IT

AND SAY, "YES, THIS IS PROOF."

VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING WAS LOST BY THE ROMANS,

THE GREAT SUPPRESSION AFTER THE REBELLIONS,

BUT THE ONE THING THAT REMAINS PROBABLY ACCURATE

IS THE VIA DOLOROSA WHICH IS WHERE JESUS

IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE CARRIED THE CROSS FROM PILATE

TO THE SITE OF THE CRUCIFIXION.

THAT MUST BE ACCURATE FOR THE SIMPLE REASON

IT'S THE ONLY DIRECT ROUTE FROM THE TWO POINTS,

AND THE ROMANS USED IT.

Narrator: WAS JESUS ACTUALLY PARADED DOWN VIA DOLOROSA

BEFORE BEING CRUCIFIED AND BURIED IN JERUSALEM?

IF SO, WHERE DID HE RISE FROM THE DEAD?

IF JESUS WAS INDEED EXECUTED BY THE ROMANS,

WHAT FACTS SUPPORT THE CRUCIFIXION AND DEATH

OF JESUS CHRIST,

AND IS THE HISTORY SUPPORTED BY REAL PEOPLE AND PLACES?

EXPERT OPINION IS STILL DIVIDED.

SO IS THIS THE VIA DOLOROSA? WE'RE ON THE --

YEAH, WE'RE ABOUT TO START OFFICIALLY THE VIA DOLOROSA

AT THE FIRST STATION OF THE CROSS.

OKAY, AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT STATIONS OF THE CROSS, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

THESE ARE STATIONS ALONG THE WAY OF THE SUFFERING OF JESUS.

FROM STATION ONE WOULD BE WHEN HE'S BEING SENTENCED TO DEATH

CULMINATING IN STATION 13, 14

WHEN HE'S ALREADY BEING PLACED IN THE TOMB

AT THE END OF THE LINE.

SO WHAT HAVE WE GOT THROUGH HERE?

ENTERING THE SECOND STATION OF THE CROSS.

OKAY, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

MEANS THE FIRST STATION, JESUS WAS BEING SENTENCED.

YEP.

IN THIS CASE, LITERALLY RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET

ACCORDING TO THE CURRENT GEOGRAPHY,

AND THEN HE'S BEING HANDED OVER TO THE ROMAN POLICE

WHO ARE GOING TO BE EXECUTING THE SENTENCE.

-AND THAT'S HERE. -THAT'S GOING TO BE HERE.

IT'S REALLY EASY FOR US TO FORGET THAT THERE WERE DOZENS

AND PROBABLY DOZENS OF MESSIAHS THAT CAME INTO JERUSALEM

KNOWING THAT THE OLD TESTAMENT HAD PROPHESIZED

THAT A MESSIAH WOULD COME AND RESCUE THE JEWS,

SO TIME AND TIME AGAIN, HERE COMES A MESSIAH.

HE'S GOT A CROSS. HE'S ON A DONKEY.

THERE'S PALM TREES.

HE HAS A CULT OF FOLLOWERS, AND, YOU KNOW, THE JEWISH ELDERS

MUST HAVE BEEN JUST ROLLING THEIR EYES.

"NOT ANOTHER ONE, REALLY?

"JESUS CHRIST, THAT'S WHAT YOUR NAME IS?

OKAY, NEXT."

IF HE WAS THE PERSON THAT BIBLE SAYS HE WAS,

THEN HE WAS A POLITICAL AGITATOR.

AS A POLITICAL AGITATOR,

HE WOULD HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED BY THE ROMANS,

AND HIS BODY WOULD HAVE BEEN EITHER LEFT TO ROT ON THE CROSS

OR THROWN ON THE RUBBISH HEAPS FOR THE DOGS.

IF THERE WERE VARIOUS CHRISTIANS THAT WROTE THE STORY,

AND IT WAS A MYTH, DO YOU NOT THINK THEY WOULD HAVE COME UP

WITH A DIFFERENT METHOD OF HAVING THEIR MESSIAH DIE

BECAUSE IT'S A PRETTY BRUTAL, HORRIBLE WAY OF DYING?

NO, BECAUSE IT HAS -- IT'S GROUNDED IN THE FACT.

THE ROMANS DID, IN FACT, CRUCIFY PEOPLE IN PUBLIC.

THERE WAS AN OSSUARY, A LITTLE BONE BOX,

FOUND HERE IN JERUSALEM AT A CONSTRUCTION SITE

THAT FOUND A HEEL BONE WITH A NAIL STILL STUCK IN IT,

SO HE WASN'T THE ONLY PERSON CRUCIFIED.

SO WE KNOW CRUCIFIXIONS HAPPENED.

-YEAH. -THAT'S A HISTORICAL FACT.

WE KNOW THAT THAT'S HOW THEY USED TO KILL...

-[ SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY ] -CORRECT, YEAH.

Green: THE ROMANS BELIEVED IN UPHOLDING THE MOST STRINGENT,

RIGOROUS FORM OF DISCIPLINE.

THEY HATED ANYONE THAT REPRESENTED

A THREAT TO LAW AND ORDER,

AND JESUS CREATED DISTURBANCES IN THE TEMPLE,

AND HE WAS SEEN TO BE GENERATING

A KIND OF AN INDEPENDENT POWER BASE

BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE LOYAL TO HIM AND HIM ONLY,

LIKE, ABOVE AND BEYOND THE ROMAN EMPIRE,

SO THEY TREATED HIM AS THEY TREATED SUCH PEOPLE

WHO TENDED TO CHALLENGE THE STATUS QUO BRUTALLY,

AND THAT LED TO HIS ARREST

AND EVENTUALLY HIS SAVAGE EXECUTION.

♪♪

I DON'T THINK THAT THE JEWISH ASSESSMENT

HAD SUCH AN ISSUE WITH HIM.

I THINK HE WAS ONE OF MANY AGITATORS

FROM THE STICKS OR FROM THE CITIES,

BUT THEY CERTAINLY WEREN'T GOING TO SAY,

"WE MUST PUT THIS FELLOW TO DEATH."

THAT WAS NOT THE JEWISH CHARACTER.

RIGHT.

BUT WHAT WAS CERTAINLY IN CHARACTER WAS FOR THE ROMANS --

THE ROMAN EMPIRE KEEPS ITSELF IN BUSINESS

BY BEING INCREDIBLY VIOLENT AND MURDEROUS

AND PUTTING OUT ANY SORT OF SPARK OF REBELLION

AT THE GET-GO,

AND THAT'S WHAT HE REPRESENTED TO THEM.

Picknett: WHAT PEOPLE DON'T REALLY GET IS

THAT JESUS WASN'T IMPORTANT IN HIS OWN DAY.

HE WAS BARELY KNOWN,

AND TO PUT HIM IN CONTEXT IN THE YEAR

THAT HE'S COMMONLY THOUGHT TO HAVE DIED,

A.D. 33, PONTIUS PILATE EXECUTED BY CRUCIFIXION

300 WOULD-BE MESSIAHS IN JERUSALEM.

JESUS WAS JUST ONE OF THEM.

♪♪

Narrator: ACCORDING TO SOME, THE CRUCIFIXION TOOK PLACE

WHERE THE CHURCH OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE STANDS TODAY

WHICH IN THE TIME OF JESUS

COULD HAVE BEEN ON THE EDGE OF THE OLD JERUSALEM CITY LIMITS,

BUT ARCHAEOLOGISTS ARGUE THAT CRUCIFIXIONS

ALWAYS TOOK PLACE OUTSIDE OF THE CITY WALLS,

AND SOME BELIEVE THAT THEY KNOW THE SPOT

NEAR THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, A VERY REMOTE PLACE AT THE TIME.

DR. EYAL MIRON KNOWS THE SITE WELL

AND HAS AGREED TO SHOW JAMIE THE POSSIBLE LOCATION

WHERE JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED.

THIS BUSTLING BUS PARK WOULD HAVE BEEN,

ACCORDING TO SOME, THE ACTUAL CRUCIFIXION SITE

IN THE SECOND TEMPLE PERIOD, AMAZINGLY AS IT LOOKS.

REALLY?

YES, THE NEW TESTAMENT DOESN'T ACTUALLY SPECIFY

THE LOCATION OF THE CRUCIFIXION.

IT JUST -- THE GOSPELS SAY THAT IT WAS DONE

IN A PLACE CALLED GOLGOTHA,

MEANING THE SKULL HILL OR JUST A SKULL, ACTUALLY.

THIS IS THE HILL, AND YOU CAN SEE

THAT THERE ARE TWO CAVES HERE LOOKING LIKE EYES,

AND THEN YOU HAVE THE MOUTH AND MAYBE A NOSE OVER HERE,

SO IT DOES LOOK LIKE A SKULL AND --

AND THIS IS, IN THIS ROCK FACE HERE, THE SKULL.

AND THAT'S EXACTLY IT, SO HE SAID,

"MAYBE THIS IS THE SKULL HILL, AND IF HE'S RIGHT,

THEN THE CRUCIFIXION MIGHT HAVE TAKEN PLACE RIGHT HERE."

HAPPENED HERE.

AND THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN CROSSES ALL THE WAY --

WELL, EITHER ALL THE WAY UP HERE OR DOWN HERE FOR PEOPLE TO SEE.

YOU'D LIKE IT TO BE CLOSER TO THE PUBLIC.

SO WOULD YOU SAY JESUS' CRIME FITS THE PUNISHMENT AT THE TIME?

MOST SCHOLARS WOULD AGREE THAT HE WAS CONSIDERED

TO BE A REBEL BECAUSE HE --

WHEN PILATE ASKS HIM, "ARE YOU THE KING OF THE JEWS?"

HE REPLIES, "YOU SAID IT," MEANING HE DOESN'T DENY THAT,

SO IF SOMEONE CLAIMS THAT HE'S THE KING OF THE JEWS

WHEN THERE'S AN EMPEROR IN THE ROMAN EMPIRE,

THAT MEANS THAT HE'S A REBEL,

AND IN THAT CASE, HE WILL BE CRUCIFIED.

Narrator: SO DO THE VARIOUS SITES IN JERUSALEM

ADD CREDIBILITY TO THE CRUCIFIXION

AND RISING FROM THE DEAD OF JESUS CHRIST,

OR IS THE CONNECTION STILL TOO LOOSE TO BE REAL?

♪♪

Narrator: JERUSALEM HAS BEEN CONNECTED TO CHRISTIANITY

FOR MOST OF THE LAST 2,000 YEARS,

BUT CAN JESUS CHRIST

HISTORICALLY BE TRACED TO THE CITY?

WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE?

MANY OF THE SITES ASSOCIATED WITH JESUS CHRIST TODAY,

PARTICULARLY THE ONES THAT DRAW IN SO MANY VISITORS,

ARE OF QUITE A SPURIOUS FABRICATION,

AND IT HAS A SENSE OF A SORT OF A SITE OF PILGRIMAGE,

SO PEOPLE COMING IN IN THEIR COACHES

TO SEE WHERE CHRIST WAS CRUCIFIED,

WHERE HE WAS BURIED.

I QUESTION HOW THEY COULD POSSIBLY KNOW

WHAT PRECISE SPOT ALL THESE,

YOU KNOW, EPOCHAL EVENTS TOOK PLACE ON.

WHEN YOU'RE AT THE SITE OF THE CRUCIFIXION,

THERE'S THESE BENCHES, AND YOU SIT DOWN ON THE BENCHES,

AND YOU THINK, "OKAY, I'M GOING TO FEAST MY EYES

"ON SOMETHING PROFOUND AND SOMETHING REALLY MOVING,

"PERHAPS A RECREATION OF THE THREE CROSSES

"AND PERHAPS, YOU KNOW, A RECREATION OF MARY MAGDALENE

AND ALL OF THE MARYS AND JOSEPH OF ARIMATHEA."

NO. ALL YOU SEE IS BUSES.

IT'S THE CRUDEST, UNSANCTIFIED THING YOU CAN IMAGINE.

♪♪

Narrator: THE NEW TESTAMENT HAS A NARRATIVE OF JESUS

BEING IN AND AROUND JERUSALEM LEADING UP TO HIS CRUCIFIXION --

IN THE GARDEN OF GETHSEMANE, IN THE LAST SUPPER ROOM

AND WALKING DOWN THE VIA DOLOROSA,

BUT IN RECENT YEARS, A DIFFERENT SITE

HAS INTERESTED SCHOLARS AND EXPERTS.

IT'S A PLACE LOCATED IN THE SUBURBS OF JERUSALEM

AND IS CALLED THE TALPIOT TOMB.

ON THE THIRD FLOOR OF THIS UNASSUMING APARTMENT BLOCK,

THERE IS AN OUTDOOR TERRACE,

AND IT'S ON THIS TERRACE THAT A REMARKABLE DISCOVERY WAS MADE.

♪♪

BENEATH THIS STONE SLAB ARE 10 OSSUARIES,

SIX INSCRIBED WITH EPIGRAPHS

INCLUDING ONE WHICH WAS INTERPRETED AS JESUS,

SON OF JOSEPH.

THE INSCRIPTION WAS ONLY PARTIALLY LEGIBLE,

AND ITS TRANSLATION AND INTERPRETATION

HAS BEEN WILDLY DISPUTED,

BUT WAS THIS THE TRUE TOMB OF THE MAN CALLED JESUS?

♪♪

THERE ARE SO MANY TOURIST SITES IN JERUSALEM

THAT WHEN YOU APPROACH THIS TOMB, YOU EXPECT IT TO BE,

YOU KNOW, DECORATED LIKE ALL OF THE REST, BUT IT'S NOT.

THERE'S CATS CRAWLING ON TOP OF IT.

IT'S, YOU KNOW, OPEN TO THE ELEMENTS.

THERE'S RAILINGS.

THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT IT THAT SAYS, "WE VALUE THIS.

WE THINK THIS IS AUTHENTIC,"

AND NOT AT ALL WHAT YOU'D EXPECT FROM SOMEBODY WHO HAS,

YOU KNOW, BURIED THE SON OF GOD HERE.

♪♪

A CONTROVERSIAL DOCUMENTARY FILM, "THE LOST TOMB OF JESUS,"

WAS PRODUCED IN 2007 BY DIRECTOR JAMES CAMERON

AND INVESTIGATIVE ARCHAEOLOGIST SIMCHA JACOBOVICI.

IT GRABBED THE WORLD'S ATTENTION.

THEY CLAIM THAT THIS WAS THE JESUS FAMILY TOMB

AND THAT ONE OF THE OSSUARIES CONTAINED

THE REMAINS OF JESUS OF NAZARETH

AND THAT HE HADN'T RISEN FROM THE DEAD.

THE CONTROVERSY WAS HUGE, MAKING HEADLINES AROUND THE WORLD.

HAD THE TOMB OF JESUS BEEN FOUND AT LAST?

♪♪

THIS COULD HAVE BEEN

THE GREATEST DISCOVERY OF ALL TIME,

THE TOMB OF JESUS CHRIST WITH JAMES CAMERON

AND ALL HIS CREDIBILITY BEHIND IT, BUT NO.

IT ENDS UP BEING A FRAUD.

Selwood: YOU ONLY HAVE TO GOOGLE JESUS TO REALIZE

THAT HE IS ONE OF THE LARGEST INDUSTRIES

AND BUSINESSES ON THE PLANET.

WE LIVE IN AN AGE WHEN PEOPLE REQUIRE PROOF OF THINGS,

SO IT'S NOT SURPRISING THAT PEOPLE HAVE COME UP

WITH ALL SORTS OF BOGUS ARCHAEOLOGY THAT PROVES JESUS.

THE WHOLE TALPIOT TOMB PHENOMENON, REALLY,

SHOWS HOW DESPERATE PEOPLE ARE

TO PUNCTURE THE STORY OF THE SON OF GOD,

TO LITERALLY BRING HIM DOWN TO EARTH

BECAUSE THE IDEA CHRISTIANS HAVE, OF COURSE,

IS THAT JESUS WAS TAKEN BODILY INTO HEAVEN.

THEREFORE, THERE WOULD BE NO BODY LEFT, NO BONES, NOTHING,

AND TO FIND A TOMB OR OSSUARY

WHICH HAS BITS OF BONE IN IT BELONGING TO JESUS,

WELL, THAT SHOWS YOU HOW WRONG THE CHURCH HAS BEEN, DOESN'T IT?

♪♪

Narrator: THE CURIOUS THING IS THAT A NUMBER OF ACADEMICS

FROM ACROSS THE WORLD CAN'T FIND HARD EVIDENCE

FOR THE EXISTENCE OF JESUS.

BEYOND FAITH, ARE THERE ANY FACTS THAT CAN HELP

TO UNCOVER THE MYSTERY AND CORROBORATE THE STORIES?

JAMIE GOT IN TOUCH WITH AN AUSTRALIAN ACADEMIC

AND AUTHOR, RAPHAEL LATASTER.

SO, RAPHAEL, DO YOU THINK THE MAN KNOWN AS JESUS

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ACTUALLY EXISTED?

I am actually a Jesus agnostic,

but I do favor the ahistoricity view.

I see that Jesus probably did not exist

because the sources for Jesus,

I think there's a lot of problems with them,

and an alternative theory about Christian origins

I think is much more plausible.

BECAUSE PRESUMABLY SOMEONE HAD TO START CHRISTIANITY, RIGHT?

Yes, and I think that someone is someone like Paul,

not necessarily Paul the apostle,

but someone like Paul.

Paul gives us the earliest Christian sources.

He speaks of the celestial son of man

which some Jews at the time already believed in,

and this person, in my view,

evolved to become the Jesus we know and love,

and I think someone just like Paul

basically started Christianity.

They thought they had visions of the celestial son of man

just like Paul did.

Narrator: ARE THERE AN INCREASING

AMOUNT OF SCHOLARS AND ACADEMICS

WHO CAN'T FIND PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE

AND DEATH OF JESUS CHRIST?

IF SO, WHY?

♪♪

Narrator: IT'S ONE OF THE BIG QUESTIONS OF TODAY.

WAS THE STORY OF JESUS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

BASED ON FACT OR JUST A POWERFUL STORY

WITH AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE, AND IF IT'S TRUE,

IS THERE EVIDENCE TO BE FOUND IN JERUSALEM TODAY?

♪♪

I THINK IT WOULD BE FAIR TO SAY THAT YESHUA BEN JOSEPH

WAS A REAL, LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING,

PROBABLY NOT A GOD OR NOT THE SON OF GOD

AS FAR AS WE KNOW.

HOWEVER, ABOUT 100 OR 150 YEARS LATER

WHEN PEOPLE CAME TO COMPILE THE SORT OF DEFINITIVE VERSIONS

OF THE SCRIPTURES OF THE NEW TESTAMENT,

THEY HAD THIS URGENT DEMAND, THIS SORT OF URGENT IMPULSE

TO TRANSFORM THE MAN INTO A SORT OF A DIVINE SUPERHERO

AND CRAFT A STORY,

A SERIES OF STORIES THAT WERE COMPLETELY UNFORGETTABLE

AND WOULD HAVE SUCH A TRANSFORMATIVE IMPACT

ON PEOPLE'S LIVES, SO IT WAS THE LATER WRITERS

MYTHOLOGIZING THE REAL SORT OF HUMAN BEING

FROM 150 YEARS EARLIER.

♪♪

SOME OF THE MORE MIRACULOUS EVENTS IN THE GOSPELS,

TURNING WATER INTO WINE,

I THINK WE CAN KIND OF DISCOUNT THOSE,

BUT IT SEEMS TO ME FEASIBLE THAT A MAN EXISTED

AND WAS CAUSING PROBLEMS FOR THE ROMANS,

AND IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT UNLIKELY TO ME.

Regarding miracles and claims about Gods,

yes, these things almost certainly didn't happen

with our current naturalistic understandings of science

and how the world works, but you're right.

The idea of historical Jesus,

it shouldn't seem that implausible.

However, when you really look at the evidence,

and you see that there's a lot of problems

in the writings of Paul, who's one of the --

who actually is the earliest Christian author,

and you see him not talking about the historical Jesus,

and you see the best sources that we have are the gospels,

and there's plenty of questions

about the reliability of those sources,

you start thinking, "Okay, there's problems here."

♪♪

Narrator: JERUSALEM AND ITS RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS CHRIST

IS CLEARLY FUNDAMENTAL TO CHRISTIANS.

THE MASSES FLOCK TO SEE THE BIBLICAL SITES

WHERE THEIR MESSIAH ONCE STOOD,

BELIEVING WITHOUT A DOUBT HE DID PREACH HERE,

DID AGGRAVATE THE ROMANS AND WAS INDEED CRUCIFIED

SOMEWHERE IN THIS CITY.

Selwood: THROUGHOUT HISTORY, WE'VE HAD ONE JESUS.

FASCINATINGLY, NOW WE HAVE TWO.

PEOPLE LOOK AT JESUS THE RELIGIOUS FIGURE

AND JESUS THE HISTORICAL FIGURE,

AND THAT'S NOW INGRAINED AND ACCEPTED.

Picknett: CHRISTIANS CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

THEY SAY, "I KNOW IN MY HEART THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD,

"AND HE LOVES ME, ETC, BUT LOOK.

"IF YOU LOOK IN THE BIBLE, HE WENT THERE,

"AND HE DID THIS AT THIS TIME,

"AND LOOK WHO WAS EMPEROR AT THE TIME,

AND YOU CAN PIN IT DOWN HISTORICALLY, CAN'T YOU?"

BUT ACTUALLY, MOST OF THE TIME, YOU CAN'T,

AND THEY'RE CONFUSING THEIR EMOTIONS WITH FACTS,

BUT THE MAN WHO LIVED WAS JUST A MAN.

IT SOUNDS A BIT HARSH TO SAY WE HAVE BEEN HOODWINKED,

BUT WE HAVE.

THERE WAS A CHARACTER THAT THEY WANTED TO MAKE OUT

TO BE VERY, VERY SPECIAL THAT WE COULD LOOK UP TO,

A CHARACTER THAT WAS A CONDUIT TO GOD,

BUT THAT CHARACTER NEVER EXISTED.

IN A COURT OF LAW, NO JURY WOULD SAY,

"YES, THE HISTORICAL EVIDENCE PROVES IT."

ON THE CONTRARY, AND OVER TIME, THE INSTITUTIONS KIND OF SAID,

"HMM, PEOPLE BELIEVE THIS HAPPENED.

YOU KNOW, WE CAN USE THAT."

PEOPLE FORGOT IT WAS ALLEGORY.

IT WAS SACRED, BUT IT WASN'T HISTORICAL.

♪♪

Narrator: THEY ARE TWO OF THE GREAT QUESTIONS TODAY.

DID JESUS CHRIST REALLY EXIST,

AND WAS HIS INCREDIBLE STORY ACTUALLY TRUE?

♪♪

IT'S THE BASIS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT

AND FUNDAMENTAL TO CHRISTIANITY.

WHILE THE CITY OF JERUSALEM AND ALL OF ITS SITES

ARE THERE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE,

THERE IS LITTLE TANGIBLE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE

THAT A MAN KNOWN AS YESHUA BEN JOSEPH WAS EVER HERE.

♪♪

THERE ARE A FEW HISTORICAL REFERENCES TO HIM,

BUT MOST WRITTEN REPORTS START AT LEAST A CENTURY

AFTER HIS DEATH.

AND AS A RESULT, THE QUESTIONS REMAIN.

PERHAPS WE SHOULD ADD A THIRD QUESTION --

DOES ACTUALLY PROVING HIS EXISTENCE,

HIS LIFE AND HIS DEEDS REALLY MATTER,

OR IS FAITH ENOUGH?