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>>> HI.
I'M ZIWE, ACTRESS, MODEL, POP
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STAR.
LAST SUMMER, I WENT VIRAL FOR
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00:00:08,996 --> 00:00:13,626
ASKING HARD-HITTING QUESTIONS.
HOW MANY DO YOU HAVE?
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00:00:13,667 --> 00:00:19,215
AND NOW I FAMOUSLY HAVE A TV
SHOW STARRING ME.
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TODAY ON "ZIWE," I'LL BE TALKING
ABOUT WHITE WOMEN, 55% OF WHICH
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00:00:26,263 --> 00:00:27,473
VOTED FOR [ BLEEP ] IN THE LAST
ELECTION.
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THIS IS UP FROM THE 52% THAT
VOTED AGAINST THE FIRST
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PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE.
SO WHAT HAS WHITE WOMEN FEELING
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00:00:34,856 --> 00:00:36,483
ANGRY ENOUGH TO MARCH ON
WASHINGTON?
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00:00:36,524 --> 00:00:39,152
>> THE WHITE LADY'S FUCKING
CRAZY.
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00:00:39,194 --> 00:00:42,572
>> FRAN LEBOWITZ IS ONE OF NEW
YORK CITY'S MOST ICONIC FIGURES
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SO I INVITED THE LEGENDARY
AUTHOR AND THOUGHT LEADER TO THE
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00:00:47,410 --> 00:00:49,204
SHOW.
SHE SHARES WITH US WHO IS REALLY
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00:00:49,287 --> 00:00:51,581
IN CHARGE OF THINGS, WHAT SHE
THINKS OF ME.
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00:00:51,665 --> 00:00:52,666
>> YOU COULD BE MISS AMERICA.
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>> WOW, DRAG ME.
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00:00:53,541 --> 00:00:54,334
>> AND SO MUCH MORE.
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00:00:54,417 --> 00:00:58,005
>> THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
ITSELF REALLY WORKS.
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00:00:58,047 --> 00:01:02,677
>> AND LATER WE TALK TO THE
WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS FEMINIST,
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00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,638
GLORIA STEINEM FOR EVEN MORE
INSIGHT.
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00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:10,226
>> I'M SURE PEOPLE WILL GET MAD
AT ME, BUT --
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>> "ZIWE" STARTS RIGHT NOW.
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>> MY GUEST TODAY IS A LEGEND,
AND I HAVE IDOLIZED HER SINCE
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SHE SAID YES TO THIS INTERVIEW.
PLEASE WELCOME FRAN LEBOWITZ.
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>> THANK YOU.
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>> FRAN, THANK YOU FOR DOING THE
SHOW.
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00:02:03,948 --> 00:02:07,702
>> YOU'RE WELCOME.
I'M TRYING TO BRING BACK YOU'RE
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00:02:07,785 --> 00:02:09,371
WELCOME BECAUSE OTHERWISE, YOU
SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
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YOU SAY, THANK YOU, I SAY, THANK
YOU FOR HAVING ME, YOU SAY,
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THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE, AND
THEN IT DOESN'T END.
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>> IT'S AN ENDLESS CYCLE UNTIL
WE DIE.
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>> THAT'S RIGHT.
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>> I'M HONORED THAT YOU'RE DOING
THE SHOW, BUT MY QUESTION IS,
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WHY DID YOU AGREE TO THIS?
DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?
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>> I DON'T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST
IDEA WHO YOU ARE.
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SOMEONE WHO WORKED FOR YOU WAS
INCREDIBLY PERSISTENT.
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INCREDIBLY PERSISTENT TO THE
POINT WHERE THIS JUST SEEMED
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EASIER.
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>> SHOUTOUT TO THE PERSISTENCE
OF WOMEN OF COLOR, REALLY.
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>> YES, OR ANY PERSISTENCE.
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>> ONE OF YOUR CONDITIONS OF
DOING THIS INTERVIEW WAS
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ABSOLUTELY NO GAMES.
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>> THAT'S CORRECT.
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>> IS THAT STANDARD FOR WHITE
WOMEN TO COME ON TO A SHOW AND
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DICTATE HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO GO?
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>> ONLY BLACK WOMEN THINK WHITE
WOMEN ARE IN CHARGE OF THINGS.
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>> WELCOME.
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>> THANK YOU.
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>> USUALLY I MAKE YOU WALK
BEHIND, I INTRODUCE YOU, BUT I
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DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO DO
THAT.
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>> I'M FINE.
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>> YOU'RE FINE.
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>> LET ME TELL YOU SOME THINGS.
OKAY, SO, NOW, IT'S NOT MY -- TO
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PLAY GAMES.
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00:03:17,525 --> 00:03:21,530
>> IS THAT A RACIAL CHOICE, FRAN
LEBOWITZ?
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>> I DON'T PLAY THEM ON JIMMY
FALLON.
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I DON'T PLAY GAMES PERIOD.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE.
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IT HAS TO DO WITH MY OWN LACK OF
PLAYFULNESS.
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00:03:31,123 --> 00:03:32,416
>> YOU'RE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY NO
NONSENSE.
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>> YEP.
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>> WHAT BOTHERS YOU MORE, SLOW
WALKERS OF RACISM?
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>> IS THAT REAL A QUESTION?
WELL, WHAT BOTHERS ME,
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DAY-TO-DAY, LIKE, OBVIOUSLY, I
ENCOUNTER SLOW WALKERS.
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HOWEVER, OBVIOUSLY, IT'S --
THEY'RE NOT COMPARABLE.
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00:04:00,736 --> 00:04:03,781
>> WHAT PERCENTAGE OF WHITE
WOMEN DO YOU HATE?
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00:04:03,823 --> 00:04:05,199
AND THERE IS A RIGHT ANSWER.
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>> YEAH.
THERE'S NO RIGHT ANSWER.
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I ACTUALLY NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT
THIS.
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I WOULD SAY -- I WOULD SAY THAT
I AM LESS CONCERNED WITH RACE
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THAN YOU ARE.
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00:04:15,669 --> 00:04:16,211
>> REALLY?
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>> YES.
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00:04:17,171 --> 00:04:19,256
>> WELL, THAT'S YOUR LIFE.
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>> I COULD TELL YOU THIS.
I DO NOT HATE ANYONE BECAUSE OF
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THEIR RACE.
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>> THIS TRACKS.
YOU DON'T HATE BLACK PEOPLE.
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00:04:27,222 --> 00:04:29,475
YOU HATE IDIOTS AND THAT'S ANY
COLOR, ANY CREED.
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00:04:29,516 --> 00:04:31,852
IT'S WHAT MARTIN LUTHER KING
PREACHED ABOUT, ACTUALLY.
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00:04:31,894 --> 00:04:35,315
>> A LOT OF PEOPLE NOTICE HOW
MUCH WE HAVE IN COMMON.
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00:04:35,398 --> 00:04:37,859
>> I WOULD ARGUE THAT YOU ARE
THE MARTIN LUTHER KING OF, YOU
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KNOW, WOMEN WRITERS WHO ARE
SATIRICAL.
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>> NO ARGUMENT.
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00:04:44,199 --> 00:04:46,659
>> NEXT, ON "ZIWE,".
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00:04:46,743 --> 00:04:48,995
>> I KNOW NO ONE IS EVER ALLOWED
TO CRITICIZE OBAMA.
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>> HERE YOU GO.
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00:04:54,042 --> 00:05:00,466
>> OH, THANK YOU.
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00:05:00,508 --> 00:05:03,969
>> YOU SEEM DOWN.
IS EVERYTHING ALL RIGHT?
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00:05:04,011 --> 00:05:07,223
>> I'M WORRIED ABOUT MY
DAUGHTER.
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00:05:07,306 --> 00:05:08,098
>> WHY, DID SHE SMACK YOU?
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00:05:08,140 --> 00:05:10,518
>> NO.
IT'S HER DOLLS.
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00:05:10,601 --> 00:05:16,106
I JUST WISH SHE'D PLAY WITH
SOMETHING MORE EDUCATIONAL.
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00:05:16,148 --> 00:05:18,692
>> WHAT ABOUT AMERICAN GIRL
DOLLS?
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>> AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS?
AREN'T THOSE FOR LESBIANS?
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>> NOT ANYMORE.
THANKS TO THE AMERICAN GIRL
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00:05:27,953 --> 00:05:33,041
DOLLS IMPERIAL WIVES COLLECTION.
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00:05:33,124 --> 00:05:36,211
>> IMPERIAL WIVES COLLECTION?
I'M LISTENING.
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00:05:36,253 --> 00:05:39,256
>> THE AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS
IMPERIAL WIVES COLLECTION IS FOR
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NORMAL GIRLS, INSPIRED BY THE
WIVES OF SOME OF HISTORY'S MOST
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IMPORTANT COLONIZERS.
LIKE MRS. WINSLOW.
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SHE COMES WITH A BIBLE COVERED
IN SMALLPOX.
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OR THE COUNTESS.
HER HUSBAND STEALS RUBBER FROM
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THE AFRICAN CONGO, AND LOOK,
UNDER HER GLOVES, THERE'S BLOOD
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ON HER HANDS.
OR MRS. PRESIDENT'S WIFE.
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00:06:00,486 --> 00:06:03,155
OH NO, WE'RE OUT OF OIL MONEY.
HONEY, TIME TO BOMB THE MIDDLE
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00:06:03,197 --> 00:06:06,576
EAST AGAIN.
OR ANDREA.
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00:06:06,617 --> 00:06:10,455
LOOK, SHE COMES WITH A COPY
OF "WHITE FRAGILITY" AND A KEY
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TO A CONDO IN A BLACK
NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HER REPUBLICAN
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PARENTS PAID FOR.
AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS IMPERIAL
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00:06:17,212 --> 00:06:17,879
WIVES COLLECTION.
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00:06:17,921 --> 00:06:22,217
>> WOW.
WHERE DO I GET THESE GORGEOUS
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DOLLS?
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>> THE STORE.
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>> OH.
I'LL GO THERE AND BUY THEM.
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00:06:36,232 --> 00:06:41,738
>> I KNOW NO ONE IS EVER ALLOWED
TO CRITICIZE OBAMA, BUT OBAMA --
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>> WHY DO YOU START A SNANS LIKE
THAT?
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>> BECAUSE EVERY TIME I
CRITICIZE OBAMA, EVERYONE YELLS
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AT ME.
THE MAIN CRITICISM I HAVE OF
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OBAMA IS THAT HE LOST A CHANCE
WHEN THE 2008 CRASH HAPPENED.
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YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A REAL CHANCE
TO DO WHAT WAS REAL.
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00:07:02,092 --> 00:07:04,803
[ BLEEP ] OBVIOUSLY THIS IS, YOU
KNOW, MY OPINION.
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00:07:04,845 --> 00:07:10,809
[ BLEEP ].
I'M SURE PEOPLE WILL GET MAD AT
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ME.
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>> WOW.
THAT MAKES ME REALLY SAD TO
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00:07:20,986 --> 00:07:23,990
THINK.
ARE YOU A SOCIALIST?
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WAIT, FRAN.
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>> I HAVE ACTUALLY PROBABLY --
AM MORE LEFT NOW THAN WHEN I WAS
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YOUNG.
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>> OH, REALLY?
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00:07:28,912 --> 00:07:30,664
>> UNNATURAL.
LIKE JOE BIDEN, I WAS VERY
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00:07:30,747 --> 00:07:31,790
HAPPY, OBVIOUSLY, THAT HE WON.
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00:07:31,831 --> 00:07:32,290
>> YES.
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00:07:32,540 --> 00:07:33,541
>> JOE BIDEN'S TO THE RIGHT OF
ME NOW.
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>> SO, HEY, SHOUTOUT, COMRADE
FRAN.
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00:07:40,548 --> 00:07:45,261
HAVE YOU EVER, LIKE, DEMANDED TO
SPEAK TO A MANAGER BEFORE?
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00:07:45,345 --> 00:07:49,350
>> I HAVE ASKED TO SPEAK TO THE
MANAGER AT WHOLE FOODS.
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I ASKED TO SPEAK TO THE MANAGER
WHEN I HAD BEEN WAITING IN LINE
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FOR 55 MINUTES IN THE LINE.
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>> AT WHOLE FOODS?
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>> YES.
55 MINUTES.
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00:07:58,150 --> 00:08:01,696
I ASKED BECAUSE WHY WERE THERE
SO MANY PEOPLE IN LINE?
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00:08:01,737 --> 00:08:04,156
BECAUSE THERE WERE ONLY FOUR
PEOPLE WORKING THE -- WHATEVER
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00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,951
YOU CALL, THE CASH REGISTERER
THING.
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00:08:06,992 --> 00:08:07,743
WHATEVER THEY'RE CALLED.
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00:08:07,785 --> 00:08:09,913
>> I THINK THEY'RE CALLED CASH
REGISTERERS.
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00:08:09,955 --> 00:08:13,208
>> THEY'RE STILL CALLED CASH
REGISTERS?
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00:08:13,250 --> 00:08:15,544
WHATEVER THEY'RE CALLED.
I ASKED TO SPEAK TO A MANAGER.
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00:08:15,627 --> 00:08:19,631
>> WHERE DO YOU STAND ON
AFFIRMATIVE ACTION?
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00:08:19,715 --> 00:08:20,507
>> IT DEPENDS WHAT PEOPLE MEAN
BY IT.
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00:08:20,590 --> 00:08:22,259
>> IT BENEFITS WHITE LADIES
MOSTLY.
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00:08:22,342 --> 00:08:22,926
>> REALLY?
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>> YEAH, STARTING WITH THE
FUNDING FOR --
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>> THAT WAS FOR SPORTS.
YOU KNOW, THERE IS THIS IDEA
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00:08:29,683 --> 00:08:32,352
THAT ALL WHITE PEOPLE,
ESPECIALLY MEN, YOU KNOW,
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ACHIEVE EVERYTHING ON THEIR OWN,
AND TRUTHFULLY, ALMOST NO ONE
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DOES.
MOSTLY PEOPLE NEED A LITTLE
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HELP.
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00:08:39,652 --> 00:08:42,739
>> WHENEVER I'M APPLYING FOR A
JOB, I IMAGINE WHAT WOULD A
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00:08:42,822 --> 00:08:45,742
WHITE GUY DO?
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00:08:45,783 --> 00:08:47,160
>> WHAT THEY DO IS GET BORN.
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00:08:47,243 --> 00:08:50,663
>> YOU TALK ABOUT THIS IN THE
"VANITY FAIR" INTERVIEW WHERE
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00:08:50,747 --> 00:08:55,710
YOU LOOK FOR -- IT'S NOT BLACK
GENIUSES THAT YOU WANT TO SEE.
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00:08:55,752 --> 00:08:58,839
IT'S THE BLACK IMBECILES.
SO I PERSONALLY CANNOT WAIT
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00:08:58,881 --> 00:09:06,138
UNTIL ZIWE JR. IS GETTING
NEPOTISM LEFT AND RIGHT.
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00:09:06,180 --> 00:09:06,889
THAT'S SUCCESS.
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00:09:07,181 --> 00:09:11,560
>> WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THE
CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT ITSELF
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00:09:11,643 --> 00:09:14,062
REALLY WORKED FOR WHAT THEY USED
TO TALL THE TALENTED TENTH.
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00:09:14,104 --> 00:09:17,691
BUT THE UNTALENTED 90th, I
DIDN'T SAY IMBECILES, I JUST
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00:09:17,775 --> 00:09:21,820
SAID UNTALENTED.
THE UNTALENTED 90th, AND ITS
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00:09:21,863 --> 00:09:24,574
WHITE COUNTERPARTS, WHAT ABOUT
THESE PEOPLE, WHICH IS MOST
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00:09:24,616 --> 00:09:25,074
PEOPLE.
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00:09:25,492 --> 00:09:26,785
>> SHOUTOUT TO ALL THE STUPIDS.
THEY DESERVE RIGHTS TOO.
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00:09:26,868 --> 00:09:31,539
STUPID RIGHTS.
STUPID RIGHTS.
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00:09:31,581 --> 00:09:42,926
>> AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS IMPERIAL
WIVES COLLECTION.
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00:09:53,979 --> 00:09:54,939
>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT WHAT
THIS IS.
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00:09:55,022 --> 00:10:00,486
>> I KNOW.
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00:10:01,362 --> 00:10:04,990
>> ARE THERE TOO MANY WHITE
WOMEN IN NEW YORK AND SHOULD
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00:10:05,032 --> 00:10:06,534
THEY GO BACK TO WHERE THEY CAME
FROM?
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00:10:06,575 --> 00:10:10,497
>> THERE ARE NOT -- NO.
IT'S NOT THE WHITENESS OR LACK
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00:10:10,539 --> 00:10:12,123
OF WHITENESS.
YOU SEEM NOT TO BELIEVE ME.
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00:10:12,207 --> 00:10:14,042
BUT IT'S TRUE.
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00:10:14,084 --> 00:10:17,379
>> I BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE NOT
CONCERNED WITH HOW ANNOYING
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00:10:17,462 --> 00:10:19,589
WHITE WOMEN CAN BE, BUT IS THAT
IN PART BECAUSE YOU ARE YOURSELF
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00:10:19,673 --> 00:10:21,842
A WHITE LADY?
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00:10:21,925 --> 00:10:24,344
>> I THINK I HAVE BEEN
INCREDIBLY ACCOMMODATING.
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00:10:24,427 --> 00:10:29,432
I'VE HAD LIKE 50 COVID TESTS IN
THE LAST 48 HOURS, SO I THINK I
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00:10:29,474 --> 00:10:30,475
SHOULD NOT BE ONE OF THOSE
PEOPLE.
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00:10:30,517 --> 00:10:36,899
>> NO, I WOULD ARGUE THAT YOU
ARE A BEACON OF WHITE HOPE.
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00:10:36,983 --> 00:10:38,109
I WOULD ARGUE YOU ARE THE GREAT
WHITE HOPE, IF ANYTHING.
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00:10:38,150 --> 00:10:41,487
>> AND THAT IN COMBINATION WITH
BEING MARTIN LUTHER KING.
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00:10:41,529 --> 00:10:41,988
PERFECT.
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00:10:42,405 --> 00:10:44,615
>> ONE OF MY FAVORITE THINGS
ABOUT YOU IS THAT YOU CALLED
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00:10:44,657 --> 00:10:47,785
BILL DE BLASIO AN IDIOT.
I THINK THAT IS SO FUNNY.
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00:10:47,869 --> 00:10:51,038
BILL DE BLASIO SINCE SAID HE RAN
ON CP TIME.
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00:10:51,122 --> 00:10:51,789
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS?
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00:10:51,873 --> 00:10:53,040
>> I DO KNOW.
196
00:10:53,124 --> 00:10:53,666
>> WHY WOULD HE SAY THAT?
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00:10:53,749 --> 00:10:56,502
>> BECAUSE HE'S AN IDIOT.
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00:10:56,544 --> 00:10:59,047
>> WHAT WOULD IT TAKE FOR YOU TO
VOTE FOR ME AS MAYOR?
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00:10:59,131 --> 00:11:02,342
>> WELL, I WOULD HAVE TO KNOW
MORE ABOUT YOU THAN I DO NOW.
200
00:11:02,426 --> 00:11:09,057
>> I'M A YOUNG WOMAN THAT LOVES
PEOPLE OF ALL COLORS AND CREEDS.
201
00:11:09,099 --> 00:11:09,975
>> THEN YOU COULD BE MISS
AMERICA.
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00:11:10,058 --> 00:11:12,311
>> OKAY, WOW, DRAG ME.
203
00:11:12,394 --> 00:11:19,026
>> NEXT, MORE FRAN LEBOWITZ
AFTER THIS MISLEADING CLIFF
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00:11:19,067 --> 00:11:19,902
HANGER.
RACE WAR.
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00:11:19,985 --> 00:11:22,488
WHOSE TEAM ARE YOU ON, BLACK
PEOPLE OR WHITE PEOPLE?
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00:11:22,530 --> 00:11:30,788
>> AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS IMPERIAL
WIVES COLLECTION.
207
00:11:40,632 --> 00:11:43,092
>> AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS IMPERIAL
WIVES COLLECTION.
208
00:11:43,176 --> 00:11:44,302
IN STORES NOW.
209
00:11:48,140 --> 00:11:50,309
>>> RACE WAR.
WHOSE TEAM ARE YOU ON, BLACK
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00:11:50,351 --> 00:11:52,478
PEOPLE OR WHITE PEOPLE?
211
00:11:52,519 --> 00:11:55,856
>> IS THERE A RACE WAR?
DID I MISS IT?
212
00:11:55,940 --> 00:11:58,233
I'M HOPING THERE NOT TO BE A
REAL WAR LIKE THAT.
213
00:11:58,317 --> 00:11:59,276
>> YEAH, THAT WOULD SUCK.
214
00:11:59,318 --> 00:12:02,363
>> THE RACE WAR YOU HAVE IN THIS
COUNTRY, THIS IS JUST A LOSING
215
00:12:02,404 --> 00:12:03,155
BATTLE.
THIS WILL END.
216
00:12:03,238 --> 00:12:06,533
>> OKAY, I PRAY.
I PRAY FOR THE SWEET RELIEF.
217
00:12:06,575 --> 00:12:08,202
>> IT'S NOT GOING TO END IN
TIME.
218
00:12:08,243 --> 00:12:11,915
WE WANT IT TO END, YOU KNOW, TEN
YEARS AGO.
219
00:12:11,998 --> 00:12:12,540
IT WON'T.
220
00:12:12,749 --> 00:12:14,209
>> I THINK THAT'S A GREAT NOTE
TO LEAVE ON.
221
00:12:14,292 --> 00:12:18,088
>> THAT'S GOOD BECAUSE I ALWAYS
END GIVING PEOPLE HOPE.
222
00:12:18,171 --> 00:12:23,635
>> YOU ARE THE GREAT WHITE HOPE.
COULD YOU SIGN MY METROPOLITAN?
223
00:12:23,677 --> 00:12:26,304
I'LL GIVE CREDIT TO YOU IF YOU
WANT ME TO.
224
00:12:26,388 --> 00:12:29,766
MY DEAR FRIEND, ZIWE -- OH,
SHE'S JUST WRITING HER NAME.
225
00:12:29,808 --> 00:12:31,559
>> I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SPELL
YOUR NAME.
226
00:12:31,643 --> 00:12:33,895
>> OH, WOW.
Z-I-W-E.
227
00:12:33,937 --> 00:12:41,237
YOUR PEER, FRAN LEBOWITZ.
DON'T GIVE ME THAT LOOK.
228
00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:41,904
OH, OKAY.
SHE'S DRAWING.
229
00:12:41,946 --> 00:12:47,076
WOW.
THANK YOU.
230
00:12:47,159 --> 00:12:49,370
>> YOU'RE WELCOME.
231
00:12:49,412 --> 00:12:52,665
>> ON A SCALE OF, I NEVER WANT
TO SEE YOU AGAIN TO, WOW, YOU'RE
232
00:12:52,707 --> 00:12:55,167
PERFECT, HOW WOULD YOU RATE THIS
INTERVIEW?
233
00:12:55,209 --> 00:12:57,294
>> WELL, OBVIOUSLY, PERFECT.
234
00:12:57,336 --> 00:13:00,340
>> OH, OH MY GOD, THANK YOU,
FRAN, FOR DOING THE SHOW.
235
00:13:00,424 --> 00:13:09,933
YOU ARE A BEACON OF INTELLECT.
236
00:13:09,975 --> 00:13:17,899
>> BLONDE, BRUNETTE, HAPPY,
CAREFREE, NUMBER ONE MOM,
237
00:13:17,941 --> 00:13:21,653
SUBURBIA, NEIGHBORS, SECURITY,
BAKE SALE, BLACK FRIENDS, OKAY,
238
00:13:21,695 --> 00:13:24,115
WELL, A COUPLE.
REALLY, ZERO.
239
00:13:24,198 --> 00:13:27,201
BUT STILL.
HE DOESN'T LIVE HERE.
240
00:13:27,285 --> 00:13:31,080
HI, CAN I HELP YOU?
POLICE?
241
00:13:31,164 --> 00:13:34,250
911.
DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR KIDS ARE?
242
00:13:34,292 --> 00:13:45,178
WHITE WOMEN.
GOT TO LOVE THEM.
243
00:13:46,971 --> 00:13:51,602
BARBECUE KAREN AND BARBECUE
BECKY, THE LEGACIES YOU SURELY
244
00:13:51,643 --> 00:13:58,442
RECALL
BUT THOSE LADIES FAIR CANNOT
245
00:13:58,525 --> 00:14:02,112
COMPARE TO THE HARLOT WHO
STARTED IT ALL
246
00:14:02,154 --> 00:14:05,949
LISA WAS A GAL WHO HAD THE
WORLD ON A STRING
247
00:14:06,033 --> 00:14:10,079
THEY SAY EVEN HER TELEPHONE
HAD A DIAMOND RING
248
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,667
BUT DESPITE THE VAST
ADVANTAGES THAT HELPED HER
249
00:14:14,709 --> 00:14:20,757
AHEAD
HER EGO WAS AS FRAGILE AS A
250
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,594
PORCELAIN BED
LISA CALLED THE COPS ON BLACK
251
00:14:24,636 --> 00:14:33,394
PEOPLE
LISA CALLED THE COPS ON BLACK
252
00:14:33,478 --> 00:14:38,109
PEOPLE TO GIVE HERSELF A RUSH OF
POWER
253
00:14:38,192 --> 00:14:42,363
NOW LISA LIVED IN A HIGH-RISE
DOWN BY THE MALL
254
00:14:42,404 --> 00:14:47,284
SHE HAD NO FRIENDS AND SHE
WOULD WAND THE HALLS
255
00:14:47,368 --> 00:14:52,957
SHE SAW A BLACK NEIGHBOR WAS
CHECKING HIS MAIL
256
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,544
SHE SAID, OH, YOU'RE GOING TO
JAIL
257
00:14:56,585 --> 00:15:01,883
LISA CALLED THE COPS ON BLACK
PEOPLE
258
00:15:01,967 --> 00:15:05,011
EVEN JUST FOR TAKING A
STROLL
259
00:15:05,053 --> 00:15:11,309
LISA CALLED THE COPS ON BLACK
PEOPLE TO GIVE HERSELF A SENSE
260
00:15:11,351 --> 00:15:17,774
OF CONTROL
BEFORE YOU TRY TO CANCEL HER,
261
00:15:17,858 --> 00:15:24,448
YOU OUGHT TO KNOW, LISA PASSED
AWAY ABOUT A MONTH AGO
262
00:15:24,490 --> 00:15:28,828
SHE MET SOME POLICE OF COLOR
AND HAD A HEART ATTACK
263
00:15:28,911 --> 00:15:32,790
SHE CRIED, WHO DO I CALL WHEN
THE COPS THAT I CALL ON THE
264
00:15:32,874 --> 00:15:36,794
BLACK MAN IS BLACK
OH, LISA CALLED THE COPS ON
265
00:15:36,878 --> 00:15:43,968
BLACK PEOPLE
JUST BECAUSE HER HEART WAS A
266
00:15:44,051 --> 00:15:49,725
SHELL
LISA CALLED THE COPS ON BLACK
267
00:15:49,808 --> 00:15:54,146
PEOPLE BUT NOW SHE HAS TO CALL
THEM FROM HELL
268
00:15:54,188 --> 00:16:02,779
LISA CALLED THE COPS ON BLACK
PEOPLE
269
00:16:02,821 --> 00:16:09,536
LISA CALLED THE COPS ON BLACK
PEOPLE
270
00:16:09,620 --> 00:16:12,832
SHE CALLED ON PEOPLE RIGHT IN
THIS SONG
271
00:16:12,916 --> 00:16:20,298
SHE CALLED THE POLICE ON ME
272
00:16:20,340 --> 00:16:24,093
>> KAREN, A PEJORATIVE SLANG
TERM FOR OBNOXIOUS, ANGRY,
273
00:16:24,135 --> 00:16:27,096
ENTITLED AND OFTEN RACIST
MIDDLE-AGED WHITE WOMEN WHO USE
274
00:16:27,138 --> 00:16:30,433
THEIR PRIVILEGE TO DEMAND THEIR
WAY AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS.
275
00:16:30,516 --> 00:16:32,894
URBAN DICTIONARY.
276
00:16:32,936 --> 00:16:35,271
>> HE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE YOUR
PHONE.
277
00:16:35,313 --> 00:16:42,988
>> I GET IT.
278
00:16:43,489 --> 00:16:44,365
>> HI, I'M KAREN.
279
00:16:44,406 --> 00:16:45,574
>> HI, MY NAME IS KAREN.
280
00:16:45,658 --> 00:16:46,075
>> HI, I'M KAREN.
281
00:16:46,158 --> 00:16:50,621
>> HI, I'M KAREN.
282
00:16:50,663 --> 00:16:54,583
>> NOW, KAREN, YOU KNOW THAT
KAREN HAS BECOME A PEJORATIVE
283
00:16:54,625 --> 00:16:56,669
TERM FOR SOME REASON.
HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?
284
00:16:56,710 --> 00:17:01,049
>> WHEN THAT FIRST MEME CAME OUT
AND IT SAID IT WAS, LIKE, THE,
285
00:17:01,091 --> 00:17:04,844
YOU KNOW, CALL YOUR MANAGER,
THAT, I THOUGHT WAS FUNNY,
286
00:17:04,886 --> 00:17:08,515
BECAUSE I AM THAT.
MY KIDS SENT IT TO ME RIGHT
287
00:17:08,598 --> 00:17:10,225
AWAY.
THEY'RE LIKE, OH MY GOSH, MOM,
288
00:17:10,267 --> 00:17:16,314
LOOK AT THIS, AND IT BECAME NOT
FUNNY REALLY QUICKLY.
289
00:17:16,398 --> 00:17:22,487
>> IT STARTED OUT WITH JAN COOK
SAYING, LIKE, YOUR WORST FRIEND
290
00:17:22,529 --> 00:17:24,824
IN YOUR FRIEND GROUP IS KAREN,
AND THAT WAS IN 2014, AND IT WAS
291
00:17:24,907 --> 00:17:28,452
A STAND-UP THING.
THEN IT BECAME, LIKE, KARENS,
292
00:17:28,494 --> 00:17:29,412
YOU KNOW, CALLING THE COPS.
293
00:17:29,495 --> 00:17:31,998
>> BUT CALL IT WHAT IT IS.
IF THE ACTION IS RACIST, DON'T
294
00:17:32,039 --> 00:17:35,084
PUT A LABEL ON IT.
DON'T PUT A NAME ON IT.
295
00:17:35,167 --> 00:17:36,210
>> DON'T PUT KAREN ON IT.
296
00:17:36,294 --> 00:17:39,755
>> I THINK THE POINT IS, WITH
ALL THE VIDEOS THAT HAVE COME
297
00:17:39,839 --> 00:17:44,176
OUT, IS HOW COMMON PLACE THIS
BEHAVIOR IS AMONG WHITE WOMEN.
298
00:17:44,218 --> 00:17:45,386
>> I THINK IT SHOULD BE STOPPED.
299
00:17:45,428 --> 00:17:49,474
>> WHEN AMY COOPER PULLED HER
HORRIFIC STUNT, I WAS LIKE,
300
00:17:49,558 --> 00:17:52,769
OKAY, YOU KNOW, NOW IT SHOULD BE
AMYS, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
301
00:17:52,811 --> 00:17:56,273
SORRY TO AMYS, BUT I WAS LIKE,
SHE JUST TRUMPED EVERY KAREN
302
00:17:56,315 --> 00:17:58,734
THERE EVER WAS, YOU KNOW WHAT I
MEAN?
303
00:17:58,775 --> 00:18:00,986
I HAVE TWO GOOD FRIENDS NAMED
AMY.
304
00:18:01,028 --> 00:18:03,905
>> I FIND IT OFFENDING BECAUSE
HER NAME ISN'T KAREN SO NOW
305
00:18:03,989 --> 00:18:07,534
WE'RE BEING RACIST.
THINK ABOUT IT.
306
00:18:07,617 --> 00:18:11,246
RIGHT NOW, WE'RE CLASSIFYING ALL
KARENS ARE GOING TO BE LIKE HER.
307
00:18:11,288 --> 00:18:11,955
THAT'S NOT TRUE.
308
00:18:12,039 --> 00:18:13,458
>> IT'S SEXISM.
IT'S AGEIST.
309
00:18:13,541 --> 00:18:20,131
BUT I FEEL LIKE IT'S A SMALL
SACRIFICE TO MAKE FOR RACIAL
310
00:18:20,173 --> 00:18:20,631
JUSTICE.
311
00:18:20,798 --> 00:18:21,716
>> YOU'RE A KAREN TO THE CAUSE.
312
00:18:21,799 --> 00:18:24,010
>> YES, I GREW UP IN
MULTICULTURAL SETTINGS, WHICH I
313
00:18:24,052 --> 00:18:29,932
THINK DOES HELP, PLUS I TRAVEL A
LOT AND I HAVE -- I'M HALF
314
00:18:30,016 --> 00:18:34,562
JEWISH AND HALF W.A.S.P. WHICH
TURNS OUT TO BE A QUARTER
315
00:18:34,645 --> 00:18:39,401
NORWEGIAN AND I'M 1.5% PYGMY, IF
YOU REALLY LOOK AT YOUR DNA.
316
00:18:39,443 --> 00:18:42,863
WE'RE ALL A MIX OF EVERYTHING.
AND WE ALL CAME FROM AFRICA.
317
00:18:42,905 --> 00:18:43,489
>> WE ALL CAME FROM AFRICA.
318
00:18:43,572 --> 00:18:47,826
>> RIGHT.
319
00:18:47,868 --> 00:18:51,413
>> DO YOU THINK KARENS' LIVES
MATTER?
320
00:18:51,455 --> 00:18:55,042
>> I THINK THAT KARENS LIVE
MATTER BECAUSE IF KARENS LIVES
321
00:18:55,125 --> 00:18:56,877
DON'T MATTER, NO LIVES MATTER.
322
00:18:56,919 --> 00:18:59,838
>> I DON'T DISAGREE WITH WHAT
YOU SAID, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU
323
00:18:59,922 --> 00:19:03,885
NEED TO SAY THAT KAREN LIVES
MATTER.
324
00:19:03,968 --> 00:19:07,847
>> MOST KARENS ARE GOOD PEOPLE.
YOU KNOW, HAVE I CALLED THE
325
00:19:07,889 --> 00:19:08,848
MANAGER BECAUSE SOMETHING WASN'T
RIGHT?
326
00:19:08,932 --> 00:19:10,767
MAYBE A HANDFUL OF TIMES.
327
00:19:10,809 --> 00:19:14,062
>> WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU
CALLED THE MANAGER?
328
00:19:14,145 --> 00:19:16,981
>> PROBABLY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,
IT TOOK A REALLY LONG TIME TO
329
00:19:17,065 --> 00:19:20,318
SIT DOWN TO EAT.
I'VE CALLED MANAGERS TO TELL
330
00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:23,988
THEM WHAT A GREAT JOB PEOPLE ARE
DOING.
331
00:19:24,072 --> 00:19:24,657
>> OH.
332
00:19:24,990 --> 00:19:27,326
>> MY HUSBAND AND I, WE ACTUALLY
KIND OF MESS WITH THE PEOPLE,
333
00:19:27,368 --> 00:19:32,289
LIKE, IF WE HAVE A SERVER,
THEY'LL COME OVER AND WE'LL SAY,
334
00:19:32,373 --> 00:19:34,375
OH, IS YOUR MANAGER HERE?
THEY SWEAT IT OUT, THEY'RE
335
00:19:34,458 --> 00:19:35,709
NERVOUS, WHY DO THEY WANT TO
TALK TO THE MANAGER?
336
00:19:35,751 --> 00:19:39,255
AND THEN THE MANAGER COMES OVER,
AND WE'LL TURN AROUND AND SAY,
337
00:19:39,338 --> 00:19:40,923
MY GOSH, THIS ONE HAS BEEN
WONDERFUL.
338
00:19:40,965 --> 00:19:44,260
SO, I LOVE THAT.
339
00:19:44,301 --> 00:19:46,137
>> THERE ARE GOOD KARENS OUT
THERE.
340
00:19:46,178 --> 00:19:48,305
>> WOW.
AND YOU HEARD IT HERE.
341
00:19:48,347 --> 00:19:51,852
ALL RIGHT, SO, PEOPLE DON'T LOVE
THE NAME KAREN BUT SOME PEOPLE
342
00:19:51,935 --> 00:19:55,021
ARE KAREN AND PROUD.
AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE TATTOOS FOR
343
00:19:55,063 --> 00:20:04,197
THOSE WHO ARE KAREN AND PROUD.
KAREN AND PROUD.
344
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,830
>> IF WE COULD DO ANYTHING AS
THE FOUR KARENS HERE, WHAT WE
345
00:20:11,913 --> 00:20:17,253
SHOULD DO IS PUT IT OUT THERE,
LET'S BE KIND TO ONE ANOTHER.
346
00:20:17,336 --> 00:20:20,882
LET'S -- BEFORE WE ACT, LET'S
THINK, RIGHT?
347
00:20:20,923 --> 00:20:23,509
WAIT, IS THAT A GOOD IDEA, TO
CALL THE POLICE?
348
00:20:23,551 --> 00:20:25,470
>> KAREN AND PROUD ON THREE.
ONE, TWO, THREE, KAREN AND
349
00:20:25,553 --> 00:20:29,348
PROUD.
350
00:20:34,979 --> 00:20:37,524
>>> I'M WITH HER.
NO, I'M WITH HER.
351
00:20:37,608 --> 00:20:38,901
I'M WITH HER.
NO, I'M WITH HER.
352
00:20:38,984 --> 00:20:43,071
NO, I'M WITH HER.
NO, I'M WITH HER.
353
00:20:43,155 --> 00:20:45,240
AND I'M WITH HER AND HER.
354
00:20:45,282 --> 00:20:46,533
>> AND I'M WITH HER.
355
00:20:46,575 --> 00:20:47,743
>> I'M WITH HER?
356
00:20:47,784 --> 00:20:48,535
>> I'M WITH HER.
357
00:20:48,577 --> 00:20:49,912
>> AND I'M WITH HER.
358
00:20:49,995 --> 00:20:51,079
>> AND I'M WITH HER AND I'M WITH
HER.
359
00:20:51,163 --> 00:20:54,416
AND I'M WITH HER.
AND I'M WITH HER.
360
00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:57,252
AND I'M WITH HER AND HER AND HER
AND HER AND HER.
361
00:20:57,294 --> 00:21:01,257
I'M WITH THEM ALL.
WHITE WOMEN.
362
00:21:01,341 --> 00:21:02,842
GOT TO LOVE THEM.
363
00:21:06,679 --> 00:21:11,684
>>> NEXT, WE'LL BE JOINED BY
GLORIA STEINEM, ICONIC WRITER,
364
00:21:11,768 --> 00:21:14,604
LECTURER, POLITICAL ACTIVIST HAS
BEEN AT THE FOREFRONT OF THE
365
00:21:14,646 --> 00:21:16,189
FEMINIST MOVEMENT SINCE THE
1960s.
366
00:21:16,231 --> 00:21:18,775
THERE SHE IS.
HI, GLORIA.
367
00:21:18,858 --> 00:21:20,193
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DOING MY
SHOW.
368
00:21:20,235 --> 00:21:21,945
YOU ARE A CIVIL RIGHTS ICON.
369
00:21:21,986 --> 00:21:24,864
>> NO, NO, I'M NOT AN ICON.
I'M ONE OF THE GIRLS.
370
00:21:24,948 --> 00:21:28,536
>> THAT'S WHAT MAKES YOU AN ICON
IS BECAUSE YOU DON'T BELIEVE
371
00:21:28,577 --> 00:21:29,203
YOU'RE AN ICON.
372
00:21:29,286 --> 00:21:30,204
>> NO, DEFINITELY NOT.
373
00:21:30,287 --> 00:21:34,500
>> SO, MY FIRST QUESTION, IS
THERE A SPACE FOR KARENS IN YOUR
374
00:21:34,583 --> 00:21:35,042
FEMINISM?
375
00:21:35,376 --> 00:21:40,381
>> OH, I MEAN, DEPENDS IF
SHE'S -- IF KAREN IS BEING
376
00:21:40,422 --> 00:21:48,264
HOSTILE TO PEOPLE ON THE BASIS
OF ETHNICITY OR RACE, CLASS,
377
00:21:48,347 --> 00:21:51,184
WHATEVER.
BUT YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE WE
378
00:21:51,226 --> 00:21:52,644
SHOULD PICK OUT A NAME, YOU
KNOW?
379
00:21:52,686 --> 00:21:55,522
IT'S KIND OF MEAN.
WHAT ABOUT ALL THE GREAT PEOPLE
380
00:21:55,564 --> 00:21:55,981
NAMED KAREN.
381
00:21:56,022 --> 00:21:58,358
>> KAREN AND PROUD.
382
00:21:58,441 --> 00:22:01,236
>> HAVE YOU EVER CALLED THE
POLICE ON A BLACK PERSON BEFORE?
383
00:22:01,319 --> 00:22:02,279
>> I'VE NEVER CALLED THE POLICE
ON ANYBODY.
384
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:09,244
>> WOW.
THAT'S A RADICAL ACT.
385
00:22:09,286 --> 00:22:09,744
GLORIA.
386
00:22:10,203 --> 00:22:10,954
>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW, IT MAY
JUST BE LUCKY, BUT I'VE NEVER
387
00:22:11,037 --> 00:22:12,163
CALLED THE POLICE.
388
00:22:12,205 --> 00:22:15,001
>> HOW MANY BLACK FRIENDS DO YOU
HAVE, JUST BALLPARK RANGE?
389
00:22:15,042 --> 00:22:24,885
>> WELL, I NEVER COUNTED.
BUT I LUCKED INTO KNOWING A LOT
390
00:22:24,969 --> 00:22:26,262
OF INCREDIBLY GREAT WOMEN.
391
00:22:26,345 --> 00:22:33,853
>> I'M INTRIGUED BY YOUR
OPINIONS ON CULTURE.
392
00:22:33,894 --> 00:22:37,983
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THE
SONG "W.A.P. .FTS TELL ME
393
00:22:38,066 --> 00:22:40,777
WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A
FEMINIST ANTHEM.
394
00:22:40,819 --> 00:22:46,575
THERE'S SOME WHO RES IN THIS
HOUSE, GET A BUCKET AND A MOP,
395
00:22:46,617 --> 00:22:52,456
THAT'S SOME WET ASS PUSSY, I'M
TALKING WAP, WAP, MACARONI IN A
396
00:22:52,539 --> 00:22:57,210
POT, THAT'S SOME WET ASS PUSSY,
WAP
397
00:22:57,294 --> 00:23:00,422
WAP, WAP, WAP.
WHEN YOU HEAR THESE LYRICS DO
398
00:23:00,505 --> 00:23:01,883
YOU FEEL EMPOWERED AS A LADY?
399
00:23:01,966 --> 00:23:02,300
>> NO.
400
00:23:02,383 --> 00:23:02,884
>> NO?
401
00:23:03,009 --> 00:23:04,802
>> NO, BUT IT DEPENDS WHO WROTE
IT.
402
00:23:04,886 --> 00:23:07,388
THE WORD PUSSY CAN BE USED IN
ALL KINDS OF WAYS.
403
00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:14,520
PUSSY POWER ON A SHIRT, YOU
KNOW.
404
00:23:14,604 --> 00:23:17,482
I THINK WE NEED TO CONSIDER THE
INTENT.
405
00:23:17,523 --> 00:23:19,609
>> LAST QUESTION FOR YOU.
WOULD YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF THE
406
00:23:19,651 --> 00:23:25,949
FACE OF WHITE FEMINISM OR THE
WHITE FACE OF FEMINISM?
407
00:23:26,033 --> 00:23:32,581
>> FEMINISM EITHER INCLUDES ALL
WOMEN OR IT'S NOT FEMINISM.
408
00:23:32,665 --> 00:23:33,082
HELLO?
409
00:23:33,415 --> 00:23:37,336
>> I MEAN, THIS HAS BEEN
FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC.
410
00:23:37,378 --> 00:23:38,128
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO LEAN INTO
ME.
411
00:23:38,170 --> 00:23:40,798
YES.
THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME.
412
00:23:40,881 --> 00:23:44,301
IT'S BEEN SUCH A PLEASURE TO
TALK TO YOU.
413
00:23:44,385 --> 00:23:44,968
SUCH AN ICON.
414
00:23:45,219 --> 00:23:47,429
>> I SO ENJOYED IT.
IT MAKES ME FEEL GOOD ABOUT THE
415
00:23:47,471 --> 00:23:47,930
FUTURE.
416
00:23:48,263 --> 00:23:49,223
>> OH GOD, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT
THAT, BUT I HOPE.
417
00:23:49,264 --> 00:23:50,809
>> OKAY.
THANK YOU.
418
00:23:50,850 --> 00:23:52,560
>> OKAY.
419
00:23:56,731 --> 00:24:01,319
>>> YOU MIGHT NOT EVEN SEE BUT
ALL THE MOVIES OF HUMPHREY
420
00:24:01,361 --> 00:24:05,573
BOGART AND LAUREN BACALL, HAVE
YOU EVER SEEN THESE MOVIES?
421
00:24:05,657 --> 00:24:06,574
>> I HAVE NOT.
422
00:24:06,658 --> 00:24:07,325
>> YOU SHOULD.
423
00:24:07,575 --> 00:24:09,786
>> I WILL BUT IF IT'S IN BLACK
AND WHITE, SOMETIMES I GET
424
00:24:09,869 --> 00:24:10,286
TIRED.
425
00:24:10,537 --> 00:24:12,247
>> YOU DON'T BLIEK BLACK AND
WHITE?
426
00:24:12,288 --> 00:24:13,039
IS THAT RACIST?
427
00:24:13,081 --> 00:24:15,626
>> YES, IT IS.
I DON'T LIKE THE WHITE PART.
428
00:24:15,676 --> 00:24:20,226
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