Original subtitles

>>> HI. I'M ZIWE, ACTRESS, MODEL, POP

STAR. LAST SUMMER, I WENT VIRAL FOR

ASKING HARD-HITTING QUESTIONS. HOW MANY DO YOU HAVE?

AND NOW I FAMOUSLY HAVE A TV SHOW STARRING ME.

TODAY ON "ZIWE," I'LL BE TALKING ABOUT WHITE WOMEN, 55% OF WHICH

VOTED FOR [ BLEEP ] IN THE LAST ELECTION.

THIS IS UP FROM THE 52% THAT VOTED AGAINST THE FIRST

PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE. SO WHAT HAS WHITE WOMEN FEELING

ANGRY ENOUGH TO MARCH ON WASHINGTON?

>> THE WHITE LADY'S FUCKING CRAZY.

>> FRAN LEBOWITZ IS ONE OF NEW YORK CITY'S MOST ICONIC FIGURES

SO I INVITED THE LEGENDARY AUTHOR AND THOUGHT LEADER TO THE

SHOW. SHE SHARES WITH US WHO IS REALLY

IN CHARGE OF THINGS, WHAT SHE THINKS OF ME.

>> YOU COULD BE MISS AMERICA.

>> WOW, DRAG ME.

>> AND SO MUCH MORE.

>> THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT ITSELF REALLY WORKS.

>> AND LATER WE TALK TO THE WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS FEMINIST,

GLORIA STEINEM FOR EVEN MORE INSIGHT.

>> I'M SURE PEOPLE WILL GET MAD AT ME, BUT --

>> "ZIWE" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

>> MY GUEST TODAY IS A LEGEND, AND I HAVE IDOLIZED HER SINCE

SHE SAID YES TO THIS INTERVIEW. PLEASE WELCOME FRAN LEBOWITZ.

>> THANK YOU.

>> FRAN, THANK YOU FOR DOING THE SHOW.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME. I'M TRYING TO BRING BACK YOU'RE

WELCOME BECAUSE OTHERWISE, YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

YOU SAY, THANK YOU, I SAY, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, YOU SAY,

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE, AND THEN IT DOESN'T END.

>> IT'S AN ENDLESS CYCLE UNTIL WE DIE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> I'M HONORED THAT YOU'RE DOING THE SHOW, BUT MY QUESTION IS,

WHY DID YOU AGREE TO THIS? DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?

>> I DON'T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST IDEA WHO YOU ARE.

SOMEONE WHO WORKED FOR YOU WAS INCREDIBLY PERSISTENT.

INCREDIBLY PERSISTENT TO THE POINT WHERE THIS JUST SEEMED

EASIER.

>> SHOUTOUT TO THE PERSISTENCE OF WOMEN OF COLOR, REALLY.

>> YES, OR ANY PERSISTENCE.

>> ONE OF YOUR CONDITIONS OF DOING THIS INTERVIEW WAS

ABSOLUTELY NO GAMES.

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

>> IS THAT STANDARD FOR WHITE WOMEN TO COME ON TO A SHOW AND

DICTATE HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO GO?

>> ONLY BLACK WOMEN THINK WHITE WOMEN ARE IN CHARGE OF THINGS.

>> WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> USUALLY I MAKE YOU WALK BEHIND, I INTRODUCE YOU, BUT I

DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT.

>> I'M FINE.

>> YOU'RE FINE.

>> LET ME TELL YOU SOME THINGS. OKAY, SO, NOW, IT'S NOT MY -- TO

PLAY GAMES.

>> IS THAT A RACIAL CHOICE, FRAN LEBOWITZ?

>> I DON'T PLAY THEM ON JIMMY FALLON.

I DON'T PLAY GAMES PERIOD. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE.

IT HAS TO DO WITH MY OWN LACK OF PLAYFULNESS.

>> YOU'RE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY NO NONSENSE.

>> YEP.

>> WHAT BOTHERS YOU MORE, SLOW WALKERS OF RACISM?

>> IS THAT REAL A QUESTION? WELL, WHAT BOTHERS ME,

DAY-TO-DAY, LIKE, OBVIOUSLY, I ENCOUNTER SLOW WALKERS.

HOWEVER, OBVIOUSLY, IT'S -- THEY'RE NOT COMPARABLE.

>> WHAT PERCENTAGE OF WHITE WOMEN DO YOU HATE?

AND THERE IS A RIGHT ANSWER.

>> YEAH. THERE'S NO RIGHT ANSWER.

I ACTUALLY NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THIS.

I WOULD SAY -- I WOULD SAY THAT I AM LESS CONCERNED WITH RACE

THAN YOU ARE.

>> REALLY?

>> YES.

>> WELL, THAT'S YOUR LIFE.

>> I COULD TELL YOU THIS. I DO NOT HATE ANYONE BECAUSE OF

THEIR RACE.

>> THIS TRACKS. YOU DON'T HATE BLACK PEOPLE.

YOU HATE IDIOTS AND THAT'S ANY COLOR, ANY CREED.

IT'S WHAT MARTIN LUTHER KING PREACHED ABOUT, ACTUALLY.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE NOTICE HOW MUCH WE HAVE IN COMMON.

>> I WOULD ARGUE THAT YOU ARE THE MARTIN LUTHER KING OF, YOU

KNOW, WOMEN WRITERS WHO ARE SATIRICAL.

>> NO ARGUMENT.

>> NEXT, ON "ZIWE,".

>> I KNOW NO ONE IS EVER ALLOWED TO CRITICIZE OBAMA.

>> HERE YOU GO.

>> OH, THANK YOU.

>> YOU SEEM DOWN. IS EVERYTHING ALL RIGHT?

>> I'M WORRIED ABOUT MY DAUGHTER.

>> WHY, DID SHE SMACK YOU?

>> NO. IT'S HER DOLLS.

I JUST WISH SHE'D PLAY WITH SOMETHING MORE EDUCATIONAL.

>> WHAT ABOUT AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS?

>> AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS? AREN'T THOSE FOR LESBIANS?

>> NOT ANYMORE. THANKS TO THE AMERICAN GIRL

DOLLS IMPERIAL WIVES COLLECTION.

>> IMPERIAL WIVES COLLECTION? I'M LISTENING.

>> THE AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS IMPERIAL WIVES COLLECTION IS FOR

NORMAL GIRLS, INSPIRED BY THE WIVES OF SOME OF HISTORY'S MOST

IMPORTANT COLONIZERS. LIKE MRS. WINSLOW.

SHE COMES WITH A BIBLE COVERED IN SMALLPOX.

OR THE COUNTESS. HER HUSBAND STEALS RUBBER FROM

THE AFRICAN CONGO, AND LOOK, UNDER HER GLOVES, THERE'S BLOOD

ON HER HANDS. OR MRS. PRESIDENT'S WIFE.

OH NO, WE'RE OUT OF OIL MONEY. HONEY, TIME TO BOMB THE MIDDLE

EAST AGAIN. OR ANDREA.

LOOK, SHE COMES WITH A COPY OF "WHITE FRAGILITY" AND A KEY

TO A CONDO IN A BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HER REPUBLICAN

PARENTS PAID FOR. AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS IMPERIAL

WIVES COLLECTION.

>> WOW. WHERE DO I GET THESE GORGEOUS

DOLLS?

>> THE STORE.

>> OH. I'LL GO THERE AND BUY THEM.

>> I KNOW NO ONE IS EVER ALLOWED TO CRITICIZE OBAMA, BUT OBAMA --

>> WHY DO YOU START A SNANS LIKE THAT?

>> BECAUSE EVERY TIME I CRITICIZE OBAMA, EVERYONE YELLS

AT ME. THE MAIN CRITICISM I HAVE OF

OBAMA IS THAT HE LOST A CHANCE WHEN THE 2008 CRASH HAPPENED.

YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A REAL CHANCE TO DO WHAT WAS REAL.

[ BLEEP ] OBVIOUSLY THIS IS, YOU KNOW, MY OPINION.

[ BLEEP ]. I'M SURE PEOPLE WILL GET MAD AT

ME.

>> WOW. THAT MAKES ME REALLY SAD TO

THINK. ARE YOU A SOCIALIST?

WAIT, FRAN.

>> I HAVE ACTUALLY PROBABLY -- AM MORE LEFT NOW THAN WHEN I WAS

YOUNG.

>> OH, REALLY?

>> UNNATURAL. LIKE JOE BIDEN, I WAS VERY

HAPPY, OBVIOUSLY, THAT HE WON.

>> YES.

>> JOE BIDEN'S TO THE RIGHT OF ME NOW.

>> SO, HEY, SHOUTOUT, COMRADE FRAN.

HAVE YOU EVER, LIKE, DEMANDED TO SPEAK TO A MANAGER BEFORE?

>> I HAVE ASKED TO SPEAK TO THE MANAGER AT WHOLE FOODS.

I ASKED TO SPEAK TO THE MANAGER WHEN I HAD BEEN WAITING IN LINE

FOR 55 MINUTES IN THE LINE.

>> AT WHOLE FOODS?

>> YES. 55 MINUTES.

I ASKED BECAUSE WHY WERE THERE SO MANY PEOPLE IN LINE?

BECAUSE THERE WERE ONLY FOUR PEOPLE WORKING THE -- WHATEVER

YOU CALL, THE CASH REGISTERER THING.

WHATEVER THEY'RE CALLED.

>> I THINK THEY'RE CALLED CASH REGISTERERS.

>> THEY'RE STILL CALLED CASH REGISTERS?

WHATEVER THEY'RE CALLED. I ASKED TO SPEAK TO A MANAGER.

>> WHERE DO YOU STAND ON AFFIRMATIVE ACTION?

>> IT DEPENDS WHAT PEOPLE MEAN BY IT.

>> IT BENEFITS WHITE LADIES MOSTLY.

>> REALLY?

>> YEAH, STARTING WITH THE FUNDING FOR --

>> THAT WAS FOR SPORTS. YOU KNOW, THERE IS THIS IDEA

THAT ALL WHITE PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY MEN, YOU KNOW,

ACHIEVE EVERYTHING ON THEIR OWN, AND TRUTHFULLY, ALMOST NO ONE

DOES. MOSTLY PEOPLE NEED A LITTLE

HELP.

>> WHENEVER I'M APPLYING FOR A JOB, I IMAGINE WHAT WOULD A

WHITE GUY DO?

>> WHAT THEY DO IS GET BORN.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THIS IN THE "VANITY FAIR" INTERVIEW WHERE

YOU LOOK FOR -- IT'S NOT BLACK GENIUSES THAT YOU WANT TO SEE.

IT'S THE BLACK IMBECILES. SO I PERSONALLY CANNOT WAIT

UNTIL ZIWE JR. IS GETTING NEPOTISM LEFT AND RIGHT.

THAT'S SUCCESS.

>> WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT ITSELF

REALLY WORKED FOR WHAT THEY USED TO TALL THE TALENTED TENTH.

BUT THE UNTALENTED 90th, I DIDN'T SAY IMBECILES, I JUST

SAID UNTALENTED. THE UNTALENTED 90th, AND ITS

WHITE COUNTERPARTS, WHAT ABOUT THESE PEOPLE, WHICH IS MOST

PEOPLE.

>> SHOUTOUT TO ALL THE STUPIDS. THEY DESERVE RIGHTS TOO.

STUPID RIGHTS. STUPID RIGHTS.

>> AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS IMPERIAL WIVES COLLECTION.

>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS.

>> I KNOW.

>> ARE THERE TOO MANY WHITE WOMEN IN NEW YORK AND SHOULD

THEY GO BACK TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM?

>> THERE ARE NOT -- NO. IT'S NOT THE WHITENESS OR LACK

OF WHITENESS. YOU SEEM NOT TO BELIEVE ME.

BUT IT'S TRUE.

>> I BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE NOT CONCERNED WITH HOW ANNOYING

WHITE WOMEN CAN BE, BUT IS THAT IN PART BECAUSE YOU ARE YOURSELF

A WHITE LADY?

>> I THINK I HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLY ACCOMMODATING.

I'VE HAD LIKE 50 COVID TESTS IN THE LAST 48 HOURS, SO I THINK I

SHOULD NOT BE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE.

>> NO, I WOULD ARGUE THAT YOU ARE A BEACON OF WHITE HOPE.

I WOULD ARGUE YOU ARE THE GREAT WHITE HOPE, IF ANYTHING.

>> AND THAT IN COMBINATION WITH BEING MARTIN LUTHER KING.

PERFECT.

>> ONE OF MY FAVORITE THINGS ABOUT YOU IS THAT YOU CALLED

BILL DE BLASIO AN IDIOT. I THINK THAT IS SO FUNNY.

BILL DE BLASIO SINCE SAID HE RAN ON CP TIME.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS?

>> I DO KNOW.

>> WHY WOULD HE SAY THAT?

>> BECAUSE HE'S AN IDIOT.

>> WHAT WOULD IT TAKE FOR YOU TO VOTE FOR ME AS MAYOR?

>> WELL, I WOULD HAVE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT YOU THAN I DO NOW.

>> I'M A YOUNG WOMAN THAT LOVES PEOPLE OF ALL COLORS AND CREEDS.

>> THEN YOU COULD BE MISS AMERICA.

>> OKAY, WOW, DRAG ME.

>> NEXT, MORE FRAN LEBOWITZ AFTER THIS MISLEADING CLIFF

HANGER. RACE WAR.

WHOSE TEAM ARE YOU ON, BLACK PEOPLE OR WHITE PEOPLE?

>> AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS IMPERIAL WIVES COLLECTION.

>> AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS IMPERIAL WIVES COLLECTION.

IN STORES NOW.

>>> RACE WAR. WHOSE TEAM ARE YOU ON, BLACK

PEOPLE OR WHITE PEOPLE?

>> IS THERE A RACE WAR? DID I MISS IT?

I'M HOPING THERE NOT TO BE A REAL WAR LIKE THAT.

>> YEAH, THAT WOULD SUCK.

>> THE RACE WAR YOU HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY, THIS IS JUST A LOSING

BATTLE. THIS WILL END.

>> OKAY, I PRAY. I PRAY FOR THE SWEET RELIEF.

>> IT'S NOT GOING TO END IN TIME.

WE WANT IT TO END, YOU KNOW, TEN YEARS AGO.

IT WON'T.

>> I THINK THAT'S A GREAT NOTE TO LEAVE ON.

>> THAT'S GOOD BECAUSE I ALWAYS END GIVING PEOPLE HOPE.

>> YOU ARE THE GREAT WHITE HOPE. COULD YOU SIGN MY METROPOLITAN?

I'LL GIVE CREDIT TO YOU IF YOU WANT ME TO.

MY DEAR FRIEND, ZIWE -- OH, SHE'S JUST WRITING HER NAME.

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SPELL YOUR NAME.

>> OH, WOW. Z-I-W-E.

YOUR PEER, FRAN LEBOWITZ. DON'T GIVE ME THAT LOOK.

OH, OKAY. SHE'S DRAWING.

WOW. THANK YOU.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> ON A SCALE OF, I NEVER WANT TO SEE YOU AGAIN TO, WOW, YOU'RE

PERFECT, HOW WOULD YOU RATE THIS INTERVIEW?

>> WELL, OBVIOUSLY, PERFECT.

>> OH, OH MY GOD, THANK YOU, FRAN, FOR DOING THE SHOW.

YOU ARE A BEACON OF INTELLECT.

>> BLONDE, BRUNETTE, HAPPY, CAREFREE, NUMBER ONE MOM,

SUBURBIA, NEIGHBORS, SECURITY, BAKE SALE, BLACK FRIENDS, OKAY,

WELL, A COUPLE. REALLY, ZERO.

BUT STILL. HE DOESN'T LIVE HERE.

HI, CAN I HELP YOU? POLICE?

911. DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR KIDS ARE?

WHITE WOMEN. GOT TO LOVE THEM.

BARBECUE KAREN AND BARBECUE BECKY, THE LEGACIES YOU SURELY

RECALL BUT THOSE LADIES FAIR CANNOT

COMPARE TO THE HARLOT WHO STARTED IT ALL

LISA WAS A GAL WHO HAD THE WORLD ON A STRING

THEY SAY EVEN HER TELEPHONE HAD A DIAMOND RING

BUT DESPITE THE VAST ADVANTAGES THAT HELPED HER

AHEAD HER EGO WAS AS FRAGILE AS A

PORCELAIN BED LISA CALLED THE COPS ON BLACK

PEOPLE LISA CALLED THE COPS ON BLACK

PEOPLE TO GIVE HERSELF A RUSH OF POWER

NOW LISA LIVED IN A HIGH-RISE DOWN BY THE MALL

SHE HAD NO FRIENDS AND SHE WOULD WAND THE HALLS

SHE SAW A BLACK NEIGHBOR WAS CHECKING HIS MAIL

SHE SAID, OH, YOU'RE GOING TO JAIL

LISA CALLED THE COPS ON BLACK PEOPLE

EVEN JUST FOR TAKING A STROLL

LISA CALLED THE COPS ON BLACK PEOPLE TO GIVE HERSELF A SENSE

OF CONTROL BEFORE YOU TRY TO CANCEL HER,

YOU OUGHT TO KNOW, LISA PASSED AWAY ABOUT A MONTH AGO

SHE MET SOME POLICE OF COLOR AND HAD A HEART ATTACK

SHE CRIED, WHO DO I CALL WHEN THE COPS THAT I CALL ON THE

BLACK MAN IS BLACK OH, LISA CALLED THE COPS ON

BLACK PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE HER HEART WAS A

SHELL LISA CALLED THE COPS ON BLACK

PEOPLE BUT NOW SHE HAS TO CALL THEM FROM HELL

LISA CALLED THE COPS ON BLACK PEOPLE

LISA CALLED THE COPS ON BLACK PEOPLE

SHE CALLED ON PEOPLE RIGHT IN THIS SONG

SHE CALLED THE POLICE ON ME

>> KAREN, A PEJORATIVE SLANG TERM FOR OBNOXIOUS, ANGRY,

ENTITLED AND OFTEN RACIST MIDDLE-AGED WHITE WOMEN WHO USE

THEIR PRIVILEGE TO DEMAND THEIR WAY AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS.

URBAN DICTIONARY.

>> HE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE YOUR PHONE.

>> I GET IT.

>> HI, I'M KAREN.

>> HI, MY NAME IS KAREN.

>> HI, I'M KAREN.

>> HI, I'M KAREN.

>> NOW, KAREN, YOU KNOW THAT KAREN HAS BECOME A PEJORATIVE

TERM FOR SOME REASON. HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?

>> WHEN THAT FIRST MEME CAME OUT AND IT SAID IT WAS, LIKE, THE,

YOU KNOW, CALL YOUR MANAGER, THAT, I THOUGHT WAS FUNNY,

BECAUSE I AM THAT. MY KIDS SENT IT TO ME RIGHT

AWAY. THEY'RE LIKE, OH MY GOSH, MOM,

LOOK AT THIS, AND IT BECAME NOT FUNNY REALLY QUICKLY.

>> IT STARTED OUT WITH JAN COOK SAYING, LIKE, YOUR WORST FRIEND

IN YOUR FRIEND GROUP IS KAREN, AND THAT WAS IN 2014, AND IT WAS

A STAND-UP THING. THEN IT BECAME, LIKE, KARENS,

YOU KNOW, CALLING THE COPS.

>> BUT CALL IT WHAT IT IS. IF THE ACTION IS RACIST, DON'T

PUT A LABEL ON IT. DON'T PUT A NAME ON IT.

>> DON'T PUT KAREN ON IT.

>> I THINK THE POINT IS, WITH ALL THE VIDEOS THAT HAVE COME

OUT, IS HOW COMMON PLACE THIS BEHAVIOR IS AMONG WHITE WOMEN.

>> I THINK IT SHOULD BE STOPPED.

>> WHEN AMY COOPER PULLED HER HORRIFIC STUNT, I WAS LIKE,

OKAY, YOU KNOW, NOW IT SHOULD BE AMYS, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

SORRY TO AMYS, BUT I WAS LIKE, SHE JUST TRUMPED EVERY KAREN

THERE EVER WAS, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

I HAVE TWO GOOD FRIENDS NAMED AMY.

>> I FIND IT OFFENDING BECAUSE HER NAME ISN'T KAREN SO NOW

WE'RE BEING RACIST. THINK ABOUT IT.

RIGHT NOW, WE'RE CLASSIFYING ALL KARENS ARE GOING TO BE LIKE HER.

THAT'S NOT TRUE.

>> IT'S SEXISM. IT'S AGEIST.

BUT I FEEL LIKE IT'S A SMALL SACRIFICE TO MAKE FOR RACIAL

JUSTICE.

>> YOU'RE A KAREN TO THE CAUSE.

>> YES, I GREW UP IN MULTICULTURAL SETTINGS, WHICH I

THINK DOES HELP, PLUS I TRAVEL A LOT AND I HAVE -- I'M HALF

JEWISH AND HALF W.A.S.P. WHICH TURNS OUT TO BE A QUARTER

NORWEGIAN AND I'M 1.5% PYGMY, IF YOU REALLY LOOK AT YOUR DNA.

WE'RE ALL A MIX OF EVERYTHING. AND WE ALL CAME FROM AFRICA.

>> WE ALL CAME FROM AFRICA.

>> RIGHT.

>> DO YOU THINK KARENS' LIVES MATTER?

>> I THINK THAT KARENS LIVE MATTER BECAUSE IF KARENS LIVES

DON'T MATTER, NO LIVES MATTER.

>> I DON'T DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAID, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU

NEED TO SAY THAT KAREN LIVES MATTER.

>> MOST KARENS ARE GOOD PEOPLE. YOU KNOW, HAVE I CALLED THE

MANAGER BECAUSE SOMETHING WASN'T RIGHT?

MAYBE A HANDFUL OF TIMES.

>> WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU CALLED THE MANAGER?

>> PROBABLY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT TOOK A REALLY LONG TIME TO

SIT DOWN TO EAT. I'VE CALLED MANAGERS TO TELL

THEM WHAT A GREAT JOB PEOPLE ARE DOING.

>> OH.

>> MY HUSBAND AND I, WE ACTUALLY KIND OF MESS WITH THE PEOPLE,

LIKE, IF WE HAVE A SERVER, THEY'LL COME OVER AND WE'LL SAY,

OH, IS YOUR MANAGER HERE? THEY SWEAT IT OUT, THEY'RE

NERVOUS, WHY DO THEY WANT TO TALK TO THE MANAGER?

AND THEN THE MANAGER COMES OVER, AND WE'LL TURN AROUND AND SAY,

MY GOSH, THIS ONE HAS BEEN WONDERFUL.

SO, I LOVE THAT.

>> THERE ARE GOOD KARENS OUT THERE.

>> WOW. AND YOU HEARD IT HERE.

ALL RIGHT, SO, PEOPLE DON'T LOVE THE NAME KAREN BUT SOME PEOPLE

ARE KAREN AND PROUD. AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE TATTOOS FOR

THOSE WHO ARE KAREN AND PROUD. KAREN AND PROUD.

>> IF WE COULD DO ANYTHING AS THE FOUR KARENS HERE, WHAT WE

SHOULD DO IS PUT IT OUT THERE, LET'S BE KIND TO ONE ANOTHER.

LET'S -- BEFORE WE ACT, LET'S THINK, RIGHT?

WAIT, IS THAT A GOOD IDEA, TO CALL THE POLICE?

>> KAREN AND PROUD ON THREE. ONE, TWO, THREE, KAREN AND

PROUD.

>>> I'M WITH HER. NO, I'M WITH HER.

I'M WITH HER. NO, I'M WITH HER.

NO, I'M WITH HER. NO, I'M WITH HER.

AND I'M WITH HER AND HER.

>> AND I'M WITH HER.

>> I'M WITH HER?

>> I'M WITH HER.

>> AND I'M WITH HER.

>> AND I'M WITH HER AND I'M WITH HER.

AND I'M WITH HER. AND I'M WITH HER.

AND I'M WITH HER AND HER AND HER AND HER AND HER.

I'M WITH THEM ALL. WHITE WOMEN.

GOT TO LOVE THEM.

>>> NEXT, WE'LL BE JOINED BY GLORIA STEINEM, ICONIC WRITER,

LECTURER, POLITICAL ACTIVIST HAS BEEN AT THE FOREFRONT OF THE

FEMINIST MOVEMENT SINCE THE 1960s.

THERE SHE IS. HI, GLORIA.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DOING MY SHOW.

YOU ARE A CIVIL RIGHTS ICON.

>> NO, NO, I'M NOT AN ICON. I'M ONE OF THE GIRLS.

>> THAT'S WHAT MAKES YOU AN ICON IS BECAUSE YOU DON'T BELIEVE

YOU'RE AN ICON.

>> NO, DEFINITELY NOT.

>> SO, MY FIRST QUESTION, IS THERE A SPACE FOR KARENS IN YOUR

FEMINISM?

>> OH, I MEAN, DEPENDS IF SHE'S -- IF KAREN IS BEING

HOSTILE TO PEOPLE ON THE BASIS OF ETHNICITY OR RACE, CLASS,

WHATEVER. BUT YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE WE

SHOULD PICK OUT A NAME, YOU KNOW?

IT'S KIND OF MEAN. WHAT ABOUT ALL THE GREAT PEOPLE

NAMED KAREN.

>> KAREN AND PROUD.

>> HAVE YOU EVER CALLED THE POLICE ON A BLACK PERSON BEFORE?

>> I'VE NEVER CALLED THE POLICE ON ANYBODY.

>> WOW. THAT'S A RADICAL ACT.

GLORIA.

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW, IT MAY JUST BE LUCKY, BUT I'VE NEVER

CALLED THE POLICE.

>> HOW MANY BLACK FRIENDS DO YOU HAVE, JUST BALLPARK RANGE?

>> WELL, I NEVER COUNTED. BUT I LUCKED INTO KNOWING A LOT

OF INCREDIBLY GREAT WOMEN.

>> I'M INTRIGUED BY YOUR OPINIONS ON CULTURE.

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THE SONG "W.A.P. .FTS TELL ME

WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A FEMINIST ANTHEM.

THERE'S SOME WHO RES IN THIS HOUSE, GET A BUCKET AND A MOP,

THAT'S SOME WET ASS PUSSY, I'M TALKING WAP, WAP, MACARONI IN A

POT, THAT'S SOME WET ASS PUSSY, WAP

WAP, WAP, WAP. WHEN YOU HEAR THESE LYRICS DO

YOU FEEL EMPOWERED AS A LADY?

>> NO.

>> NO?

>> NO, BUT IT DEPENDS WHO WROTE IT.

THE WORD PUSSY CAN BE USED IN ALL KINDS OF WAYS.

PUSSY POWER ON A SHIRT, YOU KNOW.

I THINK WE NEED TO CONSIDER THE INTENT.

>> LAST QUESTION FOR YOU. WOULD YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF THE

FACE OF WHITE FEMINISM OR THE WHITE FACE OF FEMINISM?

>> FEMINISM EITHER INCLUDES ALL WOMEN OR IT'S NOT FEMINISM.

HELLO?

>> I MEAN, THIS HAS BEEN FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO LEAN INTO ME.

YES. THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME.

IT'S BEEN SUCH A PLEASURE TO TALK TO YOU.

SUCH AN ICON.

>> I SO ENJOYED IT. IT MAKES ME FEEL GOOD ABOUT THE

FUTURE.

>> OH GOD, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT, BUT I HOPE.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU.

>> OKAY.

>>> YOU MIGHT NOT EVEN SEE BUT ALL THE MOVIES OF HUMPHREY

BOGART AND LAUREN BACALL, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THESE MOVIES?

>> I HAVE NOT.

>> YOU SHOULD.

>> I WILL BUT IF IT'S IN BLACK AND WHITE, SOMETIMES I GET

TIRED.

>> YOU DON'T BLIEK BLACK AND WHITE?

IS THAT RACIST?

>> YES, IT IS. I DON'T LIKE THE WHITE PART.

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