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1
00:01:23,349 --> 00:01:26,750
[Woman]
Youhave to be veryaggressive
to be a scuiptor. Reaiiy.
2
00:01:34,494 --> 00:01:37,930
To have the energy,
soyou see something iike this,
3
00:01:38,031 --> 00:01:40,295
you see that
it doesn`t hurt anybody.
4
00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:41,924
It`s an inert thing.
5
00:01:42,035 --> 00:01:46,768
And the oniypart
is to iook at it and say, ""Gee. ``
6
00:01:46,873 --> 00:01:50,206
You see?
You see i m mediately this twisting.
7
00:01:50,310 --> 00:01:52,540
That is to be a sculptor, right.
8
00:01:52,645 --> 00:01:54,772
So it is aggressive. It is.
9
00:01:54,881 --> 00:01:57,475
It means that I- This is-
I don`t like it that way.
10
00:01:57,584 --> 00:02:00,747
I want it myway.
It is aggressive. Right.
11
00:02:00,854 --> 00:02:04,483
Sowhy not?.
[ ciattering]
12
00:02:04,591 --> 00:02:06,752
[ Woman #2 ]
It`s aiso a difference in the way...
13
00:02:06,860 --> 00:02:09,090
that we think commoniy
women and men act, right?
14
00:02:09,195 --> 00:02:12,756
We think that women
add up the smiies and try to piease,
15
00:02:12,866 --> 00:02:15,300
and the men cut through.
16
00:02:15,401 --> 00:02:17,369
[ Woman ]
Oh, I see.
17
00:02:17,470 --> 00:02:19,529
I hadn`t thought ofthat.
18
00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,608
No, I hadn`t thought ofthat, Amei.
19
00:02:23,710 --> 00:02:26,873
I `m very grateful for your input.
[Amei ]
Sometimes.
20
00:02:26,980 --> 00:02:29,039
But this is not what I said.
21
00:02:29,149 --> 00:02:34,416
I did not say that women
are different from men,
because it`s obvious to me.
22
00:02:34,521 --> 00:02:36,989
I don`t have to prove it, right?.
23
00:02:38,191 --> 00:02:40,159
It`s obvious.
24
00:02:49,169 --> 00:02:53,003
But it is difficult to be a woman
and to be likable.
25
00:02:53,106 --> 00:02:56,007
You see, this desire to be likable,
26
00:02:56,109 --> 00:03:00,205
it-it-it is a-
it is really a pain in the neck.
27
00:03:00,313 --> 00:03:05,216
How areyou going to be likable, huh,
and beyourself?.
28
00:03:05,318 --> 00:03:08,583
So there are doubts there. Right.
29
00:03:08,688 --> 00:03:11,555
I`m fuii ofdoubts. Right.
30
00:03:19,532 --> 00:03:22,558
Somebodymight say,
""What is the use ofscuipture?
31
00:03:22,669 --> 00:03:26,002
Why doyou make scuipture?
What`s the use of it?``
32
00:03:26,105 --> 00:03:28,801
An artisan wiii say that,
you see.
33
00:03:28,908 --> 00:03:34,676
You see, I have a bone
ofcontention, as I said,
with crafts- craftsmen and artisans,
34
00:03:34,781 --> 00:03:38,308
uh, because theirproofofsuccess...
35
00:03:38,418 --> 00:03:41,546
is reaiiy whether it seiis or not.
36
00:03:41,654 --> 00:03:45,351
Myproofofsuccess
is whether it does something to me,
37
00:03:45,458 --> 00:03:49,690
it makes me a nicerperson
and it gives me pieasure.
38
00:03:49,796 --> 00:03:52,458
You understand?.
This is very, very different.
39
00:03:57,237 --> 00:03:59,205
[ Hammering]
40
00:03:59,305 --> 00:04:01,705
[ Louise ]
A scuipture is a probiem to be resoived.
41
00:04:01,808 --> 00:04:06,370
And it is a pieasure
to find a soiution. Right.
42
00:04:06,479 --> 00:04:11,644
Afteryou have found the soiution,
weii, you iet go ofthe object.
43
00:04:11,751 --> 00:04:17,519
So that the purpose of scul pture
is really self-knowledge. Right.
44
00:04:17,624 --> 00:04:19,615
And Montaigne has said that.
45
00:04:19,726 --> 00:04:22,957
Montaigne said,
""Know yourself.``
46
00:04:23,062 --> 00:04:27,499
And I think that ifhe had- ifhe had
been given to talk a little bit more,
47
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,934
hewould have said,
""Knowyourselfin orderto be happy.``
48
00:04:32,038 --> 00:04:33,938
That`s what he meant.
49
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,739
[Beii chimes ]
50
00:04:42,215 --> 00:04:45,412
That is whyl was abie
to work forso manyyears...
51
00:04:45,518 --> 00:04:50,319
with a compiete ignorance
ofthe market.
52
00:04:50,423 --> 00:04:53,187
It is not me
who ignored the market.
53
00:04:53,293 --> 00:04:58,253
It is the market who ignored me,
and it was okay. You see, it was-
54
00:04:58,364 --> 00:05:01,663
It did not-
It did not discourage me at all.
55
00:05:01,768 --> 00:05:03,827
[Amei]
But didit seem okayat the time?
56
00:05:03,936 --> 00:05:07,201
Or didat the time didyou
sometimes get discouraged byit?
No, it was very difficult.
57
00:05:07,307 --> 00:05:10,834
It was very difficult
to stand the competition.
58
00:05:10,943 --> 00:05:14,003
But, uh, it was part of a-
59
00:05:15,882 --> 00:05:19,443
It was part of the difficulty.
But- So it`s okay.
60
00:05:19,552 --> 00:05:24,046
Because,you see,
I did not abandon the work.
I kept the work.
61
00:05:24,157 --> 00:05:27,718
I had compiete faith in the work,
and I kept it.
62
00:05:52,285 --> 00:05:55,743
[ Metai Squeaking ]
63
00:06:32,792 --> 00:06:38,287
[ Louise`s Voice ]
The first state ofaffair I react to
is the quaiity ofthe siience.
64
00:06:42,935 --> 00:06:45,904
When I have adjusted
to the siience,
65
00:06:46,005 --> 00:06:50,066
then I can adjust
to the concentration.
66
00:06:52,678 --> 00:06:55,579
My modei is notyour face, right?
67
00:06:55,681 --> 00:06:59,640
I iook inside,
and my modei is reaiiy nice here.
68
00:06:59,752 --> 00:07:05,247
I measure this, and I say,
""Weii, I didn`t reserve enough room...
69
00:07:05,358 --> 00:07:08,953
""to put- to put, uh, the jaws,
70
00:07:09,061 --> 00:07:11,859
""or wiii I never get...
71
00:07:11,964 --> 00:07:14,865
the bridge ofthe nose and the iips. ``
72
00:07:14,967 --> 00:07:18,664
So I never get my-myprofiie.
I don`t have enough.
73
00:07:18,771 --> 00:07:24,266
And I -I get myself
related to this...
74
00:07:24,377 --> 00:07:26,811
by actually touching and see-
75
00:07:26,913 --> 00:07:29,973
You see how big it is
from here to here?.
76
00:07:30,082 --> 00:07:32,676
You have to-
You don`t be stingy now.
77
00:07:32,785 --> 00:07:36,084
You have to give yourself
a lot of room for here.
78
00:07:36,189 --> 00:07:38,657
And then you turn around
and you say,
79
00:07:38,758 --> 00:07:42,990
""Do I have room for my skull??`
No. I don`t have it.
80
00:07:43,095 --> 00:07:45,563
It`s too short.
Watch out now.
81
00:07:45,665 --> 00:07:48,065
It`s too short.
It`s too this. It`s too that.
82
00:07:48,167 --> 00:07:50,135
So it is a fight.
83
00:07:51,471 --> 00:07:54,406
It is a fight with-with-with-with...
84
00:07:54,507 --> 00:07:57,999
your notion ofwhatyou need.
85
00:07:58,110 --> 00:08:00,840
Whatyou need and whatyou get
is not the same.
86
00:08:00,947 --> 00:08:04,576
You need something.
You want something,
and you get something else.
87
00:08:04,684 --> 00:08:10,589
So it is the joining ofthewill
and the means that counts.
88
00:08:10,690 --> 00:08:15,787
So the quality ofsilence,
I repeat, is everything for me.
89
00:08:18,931 --> 00:08:21,593
I cannot do this
and listen to somebody...
90
00:08:21,701 --> 00:08:23,669
tell me, ""Do this, do that.``
91
00:08:23,769 --> 00:08:27,728
Or-Or the people upstairs, uh,
92
00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,105
quarreling in a- in a staircase.
93
00:08:31,210 --> 00:08:35,647
This is what I`m afraid.
I`m afraid of people quarreling,
and that upsets me.
94
00:08:36,849 --> 00:08:41,252
That brings back to me
horrible, uh, uh, uh, emotions...
95
00:08:41,354 --> 00:08:45,415
ofbeing terrified by people, uh-
96
00:08:45,525 --> 00:08:50,087
people who-who fought
against each other.
97
00:08:51,397 --> 00:08:53,365
I`m not talking about my family.
98
00:08:53,466 --> 00:08:56,731
I`m talking about my terrific effort...
99
00:08:56,836 --> 00:09:02,206
to adjust to the climate
ofthe studio when I come in.
100
00:09:02,308 --> 00:09:05,744
Who is this at the door?.
Who is this?.
101
00:09:05,845 --> 00:09:08,245
[ Woman ]
Uh, it`s the assistant cameraman.
Oh, okay, okay.
102
00:09:08,347 --> 00:09:09,678
Okay.
103
00:09:09,782 --> 00:09:12,876
So, shall I go
into the history of this piece?.
104
00:09:12,985 --> 00:09:16,648
It might be necessary,
because we are in `93,
105
00:09:16,756 --> 00:09:21,887
and this piece here
was-was actually-
106
00:09:21,994 --> 00:09:27,830
was actually made, conceived
and realized, uh, 40 years ago.
107
00:09:27,934 --> 00:09:32,200
However, my subjects
are eternal and recurrent.
108
00:09:32,305 --> 00:09:36,071
[ Phone Rings ]
[ Clears Throat ]
This-This is okay.
109
00:09:36,175 --> 00:09:38,666
This doesn`t bother us.
[ Ringing]
110
00:09:38,778 --> 00:09:40,109
Where were we?.
111
00:09:44,050 --> 00:09:49,454
So, I am- I am very busy now
finishing this piece...
112
00:09:49,555 --> 00:09:51,523
which has a long history.
113
00:09:51,624 --> 00:09:56,220
And sure enough, it has the history
of a terrific tantrum...
114
00:09:56,329 --> 00:09:59,230
where this little statue-
115
00:09:59,332 --> 00:10:02,768
When somebody contradicted me
or made demand on me,
116
00:10:02,868 --> 00:10:07,396
I turned against, uh, my statue,
which is wonderful.
117
00:10:07,506 --> 00:10:12,967
Instead ofturning against people,
I turn against the statue,
which is perfectly safe-
118
00:10:13,079 --> 00:10:16,879
safe, I mean, to a degree-
and I pushed it.
119
00:10:16,983 --> 00:10:19,247
I pushed this little statue over.
120
00:10:19,352 --> 00:10:24,221
Lateryou will see it
standing up, and-
[ Grunts ]
121
00:10:24,323 --> 00:10:28,259
It fell, or rather,
well, she lost her head.
122
00:10:28,361 --> 00:10:33,958
And it was a great damage
because this is a very
elaborate finished little piece.
123
00:10:34,066 --> 00:10:38,799
The head fell down,
soJerry, sure enough, pick up the head,
124
00:10:38,904 --> 00:10:40,872
put it back again.
125
00:10:40,973 --> 00:10:46,309
And it took 25 years to get
this little piece ready to go out.
126
00:10:46,412 --> 00:10:50,314
The fate ofthe work
is really to be destroyed.
127
00:10:50,416 --> 00:10:52,816
It is reallywhat I want.
128
00:10:52,918 --> 00:10:56,911
I want to do the things
and express my rage by breaking it.
129
00:10:57,023 --> 00:11:01,653
You understand
that my dealer doesn`t like that,
and Jerry doesn`t like that.
130
00:11:01,761 --> 00:11:05,390
Jerryworks like a horse all day
and I was going to say all night.
131
00:11:05,498 --> 00:11:09,161
Uh,Jerryworks iike a dog.
I work iike a dog.
132
00:11:09,268 --> 00:11:13,500
It is not to have the things destroyed
when they are aimost finished.
133
00:11:17,543 --> 00:11:19,511
Right.
Okay.
134
00:11:19,612 --> 00:11:22,672
Right. So could we move this?.
135
00:11:32,324 --> 00:11:35,816
I have had always an interest...
136
00:11:35,928 --> 00:11:40,194
in, uh- in the runaway girl, right?.
137
00:11:40,299 --> 00:11:44,793
That is to say runaway girl,
it is a girl who doesn`t function...
138
00:11:44,904 --> 00:11:49,307
in-in the family, uh, cell verywell,
139
00:11:49,408 --> 00:11:55,005
who is-who is ashamed ofherself
for some reason, idiotic reason.
140
00:11:55,114 --> 00:11:58,811
She thinks she`s too fat, too-
Usually, she`s too fat.
141
00:11:58,918 --> 00:12:03,582
That was my point.
I thought I was too fat,
and I was unacceptable.
142
00:12:05,091 --> 00:12:07,059
[Piece Snaps ]
143
00:12:13,299 --> 00:12:16,063
[ Louise`s Voice ]
These connection that I make in mywork...
144
00:12:16,168 --> 00:12:18,659
are connection
that I cannot face.
145
00:12:18,771 --> 00:12:22,263
They are reaiiy unconscious,
uh, connections.
146
00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:27,736
But this is the privi lege
of the artist.
147
00:12:27,847 --> 00:12:30,907
That`s why the artist should not
be supported by the government.
148
00:12:31,016 --> 00:12:33,610
They should be grateful
to be artists.
149
00:12:33,719 --> 00:12:37,120
Uh, the artist has the privilege...
150
00:12:37,223 --> 00:12:41,660
ofbeing in touch
with his or her unconscious,
151
00:12:41,761 --> 00:12:43,729
and this is really a gift.
152
00:12:43,829 --> 00:12:46,491
Uh, it is the definition ofsanity.
153
00:12:46,599 --> 00:12:50,899
It is the definition
ofself-realization. Right.
154
00:12:54,406 --> 00:12:56,738
Didl answer
yourquestion,Jerry?
155
00:12:56,842 --> 00:12:58,901
Whydoyou identify
with the runaway?
156
00:12:59,011 --> 00:13:03,175
[ Louise ]
You have to read
between the iine when I taik,
157
00:13:03,282 --> 00:13:05,807
because it wouid not occur to me...
158
00:13:05,918 --> 00:13:09,513
now in this instance
that I run away from-
159
00:13:09,622 --> 00:13:11,590
Obviousiy, I run away from home.
160
00:13:37,216 --> 00:13:39,741
[ Water Fiowing ]
161
00:13:51,130 --> 00:13:55,726
[ Fiowing continues ]
162
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:08,373
[ Beiis chiming ]
163
00:14:11,717 --> 00:14:14,447
[ chiming continues ]
164
00:14:14,553 --> 00:14:17,522
[ Woman Announcer]
She was born in France in 1 9 1 1...
165
00:14:17,623 --> 00:14:21,423
and came to New York in 1 938..
166
00:14:21,527 --> 00:14:25,725
She became part
ofthe New York art worid.
167
00:14:25,831 --> 00:14:29,460
Partici pated in all
the major movements.
168
00:14:29,568 --> 00:14:33,766
At the age of 7 1,
she had a major exhibition...
169
00:14:33,873 --> 00:14:35,841
in the Museum
of Modern Art.
170
00:14:35,941 --> 00:14:37,966
For Louise Bourgeois,
171
00:14:38,077 --> 00:14:43,515
it was a beginning ofa concentrated
and new faith in herwork.
172
00:14:43,616 --> 00:14:46,210
The 1 0 years which ensued...
173
00:14:46,318 --> 00:14:50,618
brought forth the work
ofan unprecedented beauty,
174
00:14:50,723 --> 00:14:53,556
integrity and force.
175
00:15:57,990 --> 00:16:01,824
[ Louise`s Voice ]
I have a fear ofhurting peopie.
176
00:16:06,699 --> 00:16:09,827
I never hurt a fly ifyou asked me.
Never did.
177
00:16:09,935 --> 00:16:12,699
In fact, I try to repair
everything aii day.
178
00:16:24,316 --> 00:16:27,444
So this is the smaii red room.
179
00:16:29,254 --> 00:16:33,190
Uh, it is a strange room.
There is iots ofdust.
180
00:16:33,292 --> 00:16:35,487
As you can see here-
181
00:16:38,764 --> 00:16:40,994
Right.
182
00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:45,366
You can see by
the shape of the hand...
183
00:16:45,471 --> 00:16:48,440
and the shape of the arm...
184
00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:54,546
that is the room of a child.
185
00:16:54,646 --> 00:16:59,606
And this room has to do
with the measurement oftime.
186
00:16:59,718 --> 00:17:02,209
La mesure du temps.
187
00:17:10,195 --> 00:17:13,164
Soyou see aii the hourgiass.
188
00:17:13,265 --> 00:17:17,725
Some work and some
do not work too well.
189
00:17:19,538 --> 00:17:21,631
And some do not work at all.
190
00:17:25,144 --> 00:17:30,104
But this one which concern
the cooking of an egg...
191
00:17:32,651 --> 00:17:36,246
make us think
ofthe measuring oftime,
192
00:17:36,355 --> 00:17:39,984
which has to do, obviousiy,
with farawaymemories,
193
00:17:40,092 --> 00:17:42,060
ciosermemories,
194
00:17:42,161 --> 00:17:44,129
forgotten memories,
195
00:17:44,229 --> 00:17:46,288
detestabie memories...
196
00:17:46,398 --> 00:17:49,265
and wonderfui memories.
197
00:17:49,368 --> 00:17:52,997
They`re aii there.
Is it a matter ofminutes?
198
00:17:53,105 --> 00:17:55,869
Is it a matter ofyears, centuries,
199
00:17:55,974 --> 00:17:59,273
haifa century,
three quarters ofa century?
200
00:18:00,546 --> 00:18:03,538
You know, chiidren,
they are aiways compiaining...
201
00:18:03,649 --> 00:18:08,814
that everything is wrong
because theirparents did this,
theirparents did that.
202
00:18:08,921 --> 00:18:13,790
So my answer as a parent is,
""I do what I can. ``
203
00:18:13,892 --> 00:18:16,554
I never prom ised you a rose garden.
204
00:18:16,662 --> 00:18:19,324
This is it.
This is why the rose is here.
205
00:18:25,737 --> 00:18:28,433
Now, to go back...
206
00:18:31,276 --> 00:18:34,677
towards earlier memories-
207
00:18:37,749 --> 00:18:41,276
As I said before,
going back in time,
208
00:18:41,386 --> 00:18:46,483
then we have not the chiid`s room,
but the parents`room.
209
00:18:47,926 --> 00:18:53,455
You can see that it`s much,
much iarger and more reaiistic...
210
00:18:53,565 --> 00:18:59,231
in a sense that it is actuaiiy
a doubie bed- reai doubie bed.
211
00:19:05,010 --> 00:19:07,774
Weii, a bed is oniy a bed...
212
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:12,510
uniess you want it, uh, to be
a symboi for something eise.
213
00:19:26,932 --> 00:19:31,892
Accuracy. Are you accurate
or are you sioppy in your memories?
214
00:19:33,005 --> 00:19:35,098
You have to be accurate.
215
00:19:35,207 --> 00:19:37,300
And this is given by...
216
00:19:39,578 --> 00:19:43,241
when we iook back at this mirror.
217
00:19:59,498 --> 00:20:02,626
[ Chatteri ng ]
218
00:20:02,734 --> 00:20:04,702
Please don`t
call me maman now.
No.
219
00:20:04,803 --> 00:20:07,271
You move so
that he can take it.
220
00:20:10,742 --> 00:20:14,109
Are you taking
Jean-Louis in or-
[ cameraman ] Mm-hmm.
221
00:20:14,213 --> 00:20:16,181
Yes or no?.
Yes.
222
00:20:19,184 --> 00:20:22,176
So this represent
our three dimension.
223
00:20:23,855 --> 00:20:27,484
Vertical dimension,
which is like this.
[ Squeaking ]
224
00:20:27,593 --> 00:20:29,788
Right.
[ Squeaking Continues ]
225
00:20:29,895 --> 00:20:34,389
The horizontal angle,
which is like that, right?.
226
00:20:34,499 --> 00:20:36,831
Right.
227
00:20:36,935 --> 00:20:39,062
Right.
228
00:20:39,171 --> 00:20:41,469
And the angle ofthe swivel.
229
00:20:43,408 --> 00:20:45,501
And it has
to dowith memories.
230
00:20:45,611 --> 00:20:49,069
That our memories
can be distorted.
231
00:20:49,181 --> 00:20:51,547
Yourmemories ofa common event...
232
00:20:51,650 --> 00:20:56,815
wiii be verydifferent
from the memory ofthe otherpeopie.
233
00:20:56,922 --> 00:21:01,552
So we talk about
the child`s room, red room.
234
00:21:01,660 --> 00:21:04,857
It is red because
of the reproaches...
235
00:21:04,963 --> 00:21:08,160
and, uh,
a certain kind ofpain there.
236
00:21:08,267 --> 00:21:14,172
And considering we are taiking
about red, right- red-
237
00:21:14,273 --> 00:21:16,468
Why red?.
238
00:21:16,575 --> 00:21:19,043
Because red...
239
00:21:19,144 --> 00:21:21,112
is the color of blood,
240
00:21:21,213 --> 00:21:24,273
and so it is the color of pain.
241
00:21:24,383 --> 00:21:26,351
Now, why pain?.
242
00:21:26,451 --> 00:21:29,443
Uh, why pain?.
Well, it`s obvious.
243
00:21:29,554 --> 00:21:31,715
It is obvious.
244
00:21:31,823 --> 00:21:33,791
Okay.
245
00:21:33,892 --> 00:21:35,860
So that`s it.
246
00:21:35,961 --> 00:21:39,328
No?
[JerrySpeaking, Indistinct]
247
00:21:39,431 --> 00:21:41,399
Sorry to say.
It`s obvious.
248
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:45,129
I`m afraidyou have to work
byyourseifa iittie bit.
249
00:21:57,082 --> 00:22:01,678
[ Woman Singing Aria ]
250
00:22:05,057 --> 00:22:08,026
[Jean-Louis `s Voice ]
The famiiy had a converted stone barn...
251
00:22:08,126 --> 00:22:11,323
with wonderfui thick waiis.
252
00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:13,591
We spent summers there...
253
00:22:13,699 --> 00:22:16,224
and sometimes weekends.
254
00:22:16,335 --> 00:22:21,466
And the famiiy was usuaiiy
there together, which was nice.
255
00:22:21,573 --> 00:22:24,269
It was reaiiy a refuge.
256
00:22:24,376 --> 00:22:27,311
It feit safe.
257
00:22:27,412 --> 00:22:31,712
My mother wouid take, um,
pieces ofbaisa...
258
00:22:31,817 --> 00:22:37,653
that were about this size
and, um- and carve them.
259
00:22:37,756 --> 00:22:40,224
Uh,
260
00:22:40,325 --> 00:22:45,388
I remember many, many days
of this and weeks of this happening
or maybe even longer.
261
00:22:45,497 --> 00:22:50,764
And she would bring them
to the kitchen table, and she would just carve.
262
00:22:50,869 --> 00:22:55,863
She useda tiny, um, knife
with a verysmaii biade.
263
00:22:55,974 --> 00:23:00,070
And she would carve
and shave these pieces...
264
00:23:00,178 --> 00:23:02,476
with the famiiy.
265
00:23:02,581 --> 00:23:06,415
And it wouid be iike
anotherwoman`s knitting.
266
00:23:09,121 --> 00:23:14,058
[ Louise ]
There is a drawing thatJean-Louis
reiates to, and it is this.
267
00:23:14,159 --> 00:23:16,184
Can you put your hand-
[Jean-Louis ]
Jerry?
268
00:23:16,294 --> 00:23:18,489
[ Louise ]
I don`t know if it is well lighted.
269
00:23:18,597 --> 00:23:21,794
Here we go.
It`s complicated.
[ Laughs ]
270
00:23:21,900 --> 00:23:23,868
Yeah, that`s right.
That`s right.
271
00:23:23,969 --> 00:23:28,770
Jean-Louis with the red shirt
has red hands,
272
00:23:28,874 --> 00:23:32,537
and Jerrywith the blue shirt
has the blue- blue hands.
273
00:23:32,644 --> 00:23:35,670
Right.
[ chiidren chattering]
274
00:23:35,781 --> 00:23:39,217
And this has to do with...
275
00:23:39,317 --> 00:23:43,515
the transportation
ofwounded people.
276
00:23:43,622 --> 00:23:47,456
So the person sits there.
Do you want me to sit- sit there?.
277
00:23:51,363 --> 00:23:53,854
So this is what it represents.
278
00:23:53,965 --> 00:23:56,559
I don`t know
ifJerrywill be able to-
279
00:23:56,668 --> 00:23:59,728
You see, I`m-I`m as light
as a feather.
Definitely.
280
00:23:59,838 --> 00:24:01,806
Right.
Yeah, absolutely.
281
00:24:01,907 --> 00:24:04,205
Let`s lift up.
Can we lift up a little?.
[ Laughing ]
282
00:24:04,309 --> 00:24:07,437
I`m as light as a feather, okay?.
Yeah, your feet
are offthe foor.
283
00:24:07,546 --> 00:24:11,573
Right. My feet
are offthe foor.
[ All Laughing ]
284
00:24:11,683 --> 00:24:14,015
Can we put
the feather down?.
Okay.
285
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,485
[ Laughing ]
286
00:24:16,588 --> 00:24:19,785
So what`s the moral ofthe story?.
Why are you interested
in this pose again?.
287
00:24:19,891 --> 00:24:23,657
What madeyou think
ofthatpose?
What`s the metaphor?
288
00:24:23,762 --> 00:24:26,560
[ Louise ]
No, no. It`s not a metaphor.
It is a souvenir.
289
00:24:26,665 --> 00:24:29,725
It was done in the trenches
during the war.
290
00:24:29,835 --> 00:24:33,737
Since my father was in infantry
and he was used to, uh-
291
00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:36,307
He was used to do that.
292
00:24:36,408 --> 00:24:40,970
What I recal I are trai ns
after trai ns after trains...
293
00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:45,778
going from the front
to the inside of, uh-
294
00:24:45,884 --> 00:24:49,320
ofthe country
fuii ofwoundedpeopie.
295
00:24:49,421 --> 00:24:51,514
[ Speaking French ]
296
00:24:51,623 --> 00:24:56,356
And, uh, so that the civil
population would not see it,
297
00:24:56,461 --> 00:24:58,691
they traveled by night.
298
00:24:58,797 --> 00:25:03,393
But you could hear the siren
ofthe train passing by.
299
00:25:03,502 --> 00:25:07,029
So this is where it comes-
comes back.
300
00:25:07,138 --> 00:25:11,973
How doyou take care of-
How doyou take care ofwounded people?.
301
00:25:12,077 --> 00:25:16,013
Okay, so that`s it.
[Amei]Andyourfather
was wounded, right?
302
00:25:16,114 --> 00:25:21,518
Yes, he was wounded, but, uh,
he was evacuated, uh, to Chartres.
303
00:25:21,620 --> 00:25:25,351
He had a wound in his arm and
was never transported iike that.
304
00:25:25,457 --> 00:25:28,290
[Jean-Louis ]
WasJosephine abie
to visit him in chartres?
305
00:25:28,393 --> 00:25:30,987
Yes. Yes. Right.
She was? She was?
306
00:25:31,096 --> 00:25:33,462
- Yes, of course.
- Didyou go with-
Didyou go with her?
307
00:25:33,565 --> 00:25:38,434
Yes. We have iots ofphotographs.
[Amei ] But, Louise, you went
to the front iines, didn`tyou?
308
00:25:38,537 --> 00:25:41,700
No. Never. No women
were aiiowed on the front.
309
00:25:41,806 --> 00:25:44,172
But we were aiiowed
in the hospitais.
310
00:25:44,276 --> 00:25:48,212
[ Gorovoy ]
Wel l, you can tel I how old Louise is.
There`s a picture of Louis in Chartres.
311
00:25:48,313 --> 00:25:51,146
And here`s Louise
at chartres in 1 91 5.
[Jean-Louise ] She was three.
312
00:25:51,249 --> 00:25:53,274
Four.
313
00:25:53,385 --> 00:25:55,979
[ Louise ]
I must be more than four there.
I must be six,, no?
314
00:25:56,087 --> 00:26:00,421
[Jean-Louis ]
She was born on christmas, 1 9 1 1.
[ Gorovoy] Eieven. And this is 1 9 1 5.
315
00:26:06,865 --> 00:26:10,665
[ Louise`s Voice ]
I was born in Paris
at the outbreak ofthe 1 9 1 4 war.
316
00:26:10,769 --> 00:26:14,728
And the first thing I knew
is that my father ieft for the war,
317
00:26:14,839 --> 00:26:17,501
and it made my mother very nervous.
318
00:26:20,045 --> 00:26:22,013
Uh-
319
00:26:22,113 --> 00:26:24,741
And I remember-
I remember, uh-
320
00:26:24,849 --> 00:26:27,283
I remember her nervousness,
321
00:26:27,385 --> 00:26:32,015
and I remember mypain at the time,
even though I was very iittie.
322
00:26:32,123 --> 00:26:34,887
And, uh, she wasn`t happy.
323
00:26:34,993 --> 00:26:40,590
And, uh-And she started
to foiiow my father...
324
00:26:40,699 --> 00:26:42,667
from camp to camp.
325
00:26:42,767 --> 00:26:46,965
And, uh, my brother
and my sisters were left home...
326
00:26:47,072 --> 00:26:49,040
with my grandparents.
327
00:26:49,140 --> 00:26:52,871
And I was carried around
by my mother...
328
00:26:52,978 --> 00:26:58,917
to meet him in different-
in different places in France.
329
00:26:59,017 --> 00:27:01,508
When the warwas over,
330
00:27:01,620 --> 00:27:07,286
as happened in many coupie,
he had changed,
and he was going to enjoy himseif.
331
00:27:07,392 --> 00:27:11,089
And from then on,
he ran after women.
332
00:27:11,196 --> 00:27:13,323
It is not uncommon in France.
333
00:27:13,431 --> 00:27:15,422
I t is even very com mon.
334
00:27:15,533 --> 00:27:17,899
For wom- Men-
335
00:27:18,003 --> 00:27:21,166
Men are frantic,
and women are sad.
336
00:27:21,272 --> 00:27:25,800
[ Man Singing in French ]
337
00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:35,647
[ continues ]
338
00:27:52,103 --> 00:27:55,800
[ continues ]
339
00:28:09,821 --> 00:28:14,622
[ continues ]
340
00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:52,292
[ continues ]
341
00:29:22,994 --> 00:29:25,895
[ Gorovoy]
But I`m just saying it was-
342
00:29:25,997 --> 00:29:30,957
What I think is interesting-
In order to estabiish
the American schooi and the American-
343
00:29:31,069 --> 00:29:35,301
U h, so the-the-the question here
would be, ""What do you want??`
344
00:29:35,406 --> 00:29:38,569
You have asked me,
""What did you want??`
345
00:29:40,311 --> 00:29:42,643
""What did you want??`
346
00:29:42,747 --> 00:29:44,738
""What did you want??` To be useful.
347
00:29:47,886 --> 00:29:53,051
What I wanted is to have
an itineraire unique. That is it.
348
00:29:53,158 --> 00:29:56,491
[Amei]
Your ownjourney.
My own journey. This is it.
349
00:29:56,594 --> 00:29:58,619
For instance, ifyou had a map,
350
00:29:58,730 --> 00:30:02,131
and-and-and you have a-
351
00:30:03,968 --> 00:30:08,166
This is- This is
the itinerary oflife. Right?.
352
00:30:08,273 --> 00:30:10,605
You`re born here.
You finish up here.
353
00:30:10,708 --> 00:30:15,839
And what haveyou done, huh?.
What haveyou done with the damn thing?.
354
00:30:15,947 --> 00:30:18,006
This is it. And I chose it.
355
00:30:18,116 --> 00:30:20,084
And every time there was a turn,
356
00:30:20,185 --> 00:30:24,087
I made the decision you go right
oryou go left oryou go forward.
357
00:30:24,189 --> 00:30:27,181
It was my itineraire unique.
358
00:30:27,292 --> 00:30:29,260
[Amei]
Andwhen didyou
become aware ofthat?
359
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,193
When did that become
a conscious thought?
Uh, very, very lately.
360
00:30:32,297 --> 00:30:34,265
I n fact, this year.
361
00:30:34,365 --> 00:30:38,734
Because, of course,
there is here, the eminence grise.
362
00:30:38,837 --> 00:30:41,431
You know eminence grise,
what it means?
363
00:30:41,539 --> 00:30:44,030
- [Amei ]
Yes. Areyou eminence grise?
- No. He is.
364
00:30:44,142 --> 00:30:46,303
Oh, he is.
[ All Laughing ]
365
00:30:46,411 --> 00:30:50,142
And he`s always there,
and nobody knows it, but he`s there.
366
00:30:50,248 --> 00:30:53,274
He`s an eminence grise.
Right.
367
00:30:53,384 --> 00:30:58,651
You do not know him,
but you know him by the results,
not by his presence.
368
00:30:58,756 --> 00:31:02,453
Uh, now, what-
I lost it.
We were taiking about-
369
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,256
[ Gorovoy`s Voice ]
There was a gaiiery across the street
caiied Max, Hutchinson.
370
00:31:05,363 --> 00:31:07,331
This was eariy
in the beginning ofSoHo.
371
00:31:07,432 --> 00:31:09,662
So I worked there part time.
372
00:31:09,767 --> 00:31:11,792
One day he said,
""Why don`tyou do a show?``
373
00:31:11,903 --> 00:31:15,566
So I decided to do this show
caiied ""Ten Abstract Scuiptures. ``
374
00:31:15,673 --> 00:31:18,198
And I wanted to show Louise.
375
00:31:18,309 --> 00:31:20,971
Louise wasn`t that known.
She wasn`t showing that much.
376
00:31:21,079 --> 00:31:23,547
Louise came down,
and she flipped out.
377
00:31:23,648 --> 00:31:27,607
This was before the opening.
She didn`t iike where herpiece was.
378
00:31:28,953 --> 00:31:32,514
So- And I thought, ""Oh, God. ``
379
00:31:32,624 --> 00:31:35,149
You know, this woman`s
I i ke a difficult bitch.
380
00:31:35,260 --> 00:31:37,387
She should be lucky
she`s in the show.
381
00:31:37,495 --> 00:31:40,623
This was my first show.
She threatened to pull the piece out.
382
00:31:40,732 --> 00:31:43,200
I was like, ""Okay.
383
00:31:43,301 --> 00:31:45,826
Let`s just go for a cup of coffee.``
384
00:31:45,937 --> 00:31:49,270
So we went to Food.
I think it was Food.
385
00:31:49,374 --> 00:31:52,036
And we sat and we talked.
`Cause I had never met her before.
386
00:31:52,143 --> 00:31:56,375
I rememberwalking back after,
and she was quite forceful, Louise.
387
00:31:56,481 --> 00:31:58,642
But then she was walking back.
388
00:31:58,750 --> 00:32:01,275
And I think it was a cobblestone.
She fell down.
389
00:32:01,386 --> 00:32:04,014
And it just touched me the way
that just slightly she fell down.
390
00:32:04,122 --> 00:32:06,181
I picked her up.
391
00:32:06,291 --> 00:32:10,125
Somehow she let the piece stay in the show.
She sort of calmed down.
392
00:32:10,228 --> 00:32:13,720
`Cause Louise has this thing.
I thinkwhen she`s nervous,
which I learned later-
393
00:32:13,831 --> 00:32:16,265
that when Louise is nervous,
she attacks.
394
00:32:16,367 --> 00:32:19,666
Shortiyafterthat opening,
she invited me to herhome in cheisea.
395
00:32:21,572 --> 00:32:24,097
And so I went to her house,
396
00:32:24,208 --> 00:32:26,733
and she had an incredibie body
ofwork everywhere.
397
00:32:26,844 --> 00:32:28,971
Louise is not into decoration.
398
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,846
Apparentiy, when her husband
died after that, that was probabiy
the iast time she had anything.
399
00:32:32,951 --> 00:32:37,081
It was very functionai.
Writing on the waiis,
ciippings, and this and that.
400
00:32:37,188 --> 00:32:41,090
The whoie house was reaiiy iike one
ofher scuiptures, I wouid come to iearn,
401
00:32:41,192 --> 00:32:44,161
when I got a sense of it.
402
00:32:44,262 --> 00:32:47,288
But it was reaiiy that fusion ofher iife
and art that reaiiy attracted me...
403
00:32:47,398 --> 00:32:49,366
in terms ofwhere I was coming from.
404
00:32:49,467 --> 00:32:51,560
As I said, you know,
the `8.0s, there was a shift.
405
00:32:51,669 --> 00:32:55,605
You know, the Greenberg formaiism
was sort of on the out.
406
00:32:55,707 --> 00:32:57,868
My generation
was interested in narrative,
407
00:32:57,976 --> 00:33:02,310
interested in issues
ofgender and sex,uaiity,
408
00:33:02,413 --> 00:33:05,143
interested in mining
a whoie nother kind of imagery.
409
00:33:05,249 --> 00:33:10,585
And so Louise, you know,
had been mining that area for a iong time.
410
00:33:12,790 --> 00:33:14,758
For me, Louise was the reai Mccoy.
411
00:33:14,859 --> 00:33:17,851
There was no separation
for her art and her iife.
412
00:33:17,962 --> 00:33:19,930
You know,
the reiationship ofseif-portraiture.
413
00:33:20,031 --> 00:33:22,864
The whoie body
ofwork reaiiy is iike a seif-portrait.
414
00:33:22,967 --> 00:33:28,496
[ Man Singing In French ]
415
00:33:34,178 --> 00:33:37,477
[ continues ]
416
00:33:53,231 --> 00:33:55,426
[ Louise ]
Andyou find a stand.
[ Woman ] Downstairs?
417
00:33:55,533 --> 00:33:58,297
[ Louise ]
Okay. Not downstairs.
No. Don`t start now.
418
00:33:58,403 --> 00:34:01,668
[ Woman ]
You`re instaiiing- [ Indistinct ]
[ Louise ] No. Absoiuteiy not.
419
00:34:01,773 --> 00:34:04,173
[ Woman ]
Why not?
[ Louise ] Because it wiii disturb me.
420
00:34:04,275 --> 00:34:08,268
You want me.
It is- It is fake.
421
00:34:08,379 --> 00:34:12,338
[ Woman ] It`s fake?
[ Louise ] Yes, it is fake to say
thatyou see the production.
422
00:34:12,450 --> 00:34:16,352
To me it is ex,cruciating
to make it. Right.
423
00:34:16,454 --> 00:34:18,547
And I`m not an actress.
424
00:34:18,656 --> 00:34:21,181
[ Woman ]
I don`t want to-
[ Louise ] No. Don`t try to heip me.
425
00:34:21,292 --> 00:34:26,594
That is why we need a stand
four feet high.
426
00:34:26,697 --> 00:34:29,632
You iook around in the piace
andyou find a stand.
427
00:34:43,114 --> 00:34:45,776
So it is the maki ng of a hairpin...
428
00:34:47,418 --> 00:34:51,514
which I am always short of-
429
00:34:57,728 --> 00:35:03,291
You see, the hairpin is indispensable,
and I never have any. Right?.
430
00:35:03,401 --> 00:35:06,131
Okay, so that`s it.
431
00:35:08,473 --> 00:35:11,203
[Man Narrating]
Wejust iiked each other.
It`s as simpie as that.
432
00:35:11,309 --> 00:35:13,504
I caii hermy French mistress.
Very good.
433
00:35:13,611 --> 00:35:16,705
And she is in a way.
So we are almost ready?.
434
00:35:16,814 --> 00:35:21,842
[ cameraman ] Mm-hmm.
[ Man Narrating ]
There`s a very direct emotionai bond.
435
00:35:27,959 --> 00:35:31,793
Honestly, I think it`s
her pain level that I got.
436
00:35:31,896 --> 00:35:34,023
And you go full circle this way.
437
00:35:37,201 --> 00:35:40,136
[ Storr]
She generates energy,
and she generates psychoiogicai energy.
438
00:35:40,238 --> 00:35:43,401
She`s aiso a vampire, which means
she sucks up psychoiogicai energy.
439
00:35:43,508 --> 00:35:49,344
Andyou have to be very carefui.
She can be very wounding
ifyou aiiow her to be.
440
00:35:49,447 --> 00:35:52,177
So it doesn`t work I i ke this.
441
00:35:52,283 --> 00:35:54,478
So you try the other side.
442
00:35:54,585 --> 00:35:56,576
She`s done it to everybody
one time or another.
443
00:35:56,687 --> 00:35:59,554
More than one time usually,
if they stick around.
444
00:35:59,657 --> 00:36:04,594
Um, but most ofthe time,
she`s putting energy out, you know,
445
00:36:04,695 --> 00:36:09,155
and she`s creating a world
that`s more interesting
than it would be ifshe wasn`t there.
446
00:36:10,401 --> 00:36:14,394
I met herin 1976 in December,
andl reaiiyrememberit.
447
00:36:14,505 --> 00:36:17,941
I rememberwalking down 20th Street,
and there was a little bit of snow
on the ground...
448
00:36:18,042 --> 00:36:20,408
and going up to her door
and ringing the bell.
449
00:36:20,511 --> 00:36:23,207
Um, a couple of months before,
450
00:36:23,314 --> 00:36:27,478
I had seen two ofherworks
when I was visiting New York.
451
00:36:27,585 --> 00:36:29,917
I was living in Boston at the time,
452
00:36:30,021 --> 00:36:33,821
and, um, I saw herwork
at the Max Hutchinson Gallery.
453
00:36:33,925 --> 00:36:36,291
Andforsome reason
it reaiiydrewme.
454
00:36:37,628 --> 00:36:39,596
She was sitting in the front room,
455
00:36:39,697 --> 00:36:44,999
and she had a siide projector on
with many trays ofher work.
456
00:36:45,102 --> 00:36:47,434
And so wejust sat there,
and we didn`t taik very much,
457
00:36:47,538 --> 00:36:50,439
but shejust kept showing me
different siides ofher work.
458
00:36:50,541 --> 00:36:52,031
I just sat there.
459
00:36:52,143 --> 00:36:57,171
And I stayed for several hours,
and I was totally taken.
460
00:36:57,281 --> 00:37:00,444
I was, like, in her power.
I don`t know how else to describe it.
461
00:37:00,551 --> 00:37:05,011
I-I couldn`t believe herwork.
I couldn`t believe what she was like.
462
00:37:05,122 --> 00:37:08,523
And, um, I just left there thinking just-
463
00:37:08,626 --> 00:37:13,427
It was a transformative event
in myiife reaiiy.
464
00:37:13,531 --> 00:37:15,931
[ Louise ]
So this is the scene ofthe murder.
465
00:37:16,033 --> 00:37:18,001
This is the parent`s room.
466
00:37:21,772 --> 00:37:24,240
And here is the escape.
467
00:37:24,342 --> 00:37:26,310
I love that.
468
00:37:46,364 --> 00:37:49,162
[ Wye`s Voice ]
I guess my training and my thinking,
469
00:37:49,267 --> 00:37:53,033
you know, from having studied
in the `60s and `70s, eariy `70s,
470
00:37:53,137 --> 00:37:56,436
I think it was, uh,
a way ofiooking at art...
471
00:37:56,540 --> 00:38:02,376
that had to do with the formal aspects
of a painting or a sculpture.
472
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,608
shapes, color, line, texture-
473
00:38:05,716 --> 00:38:07,946
how those affected the meaning.
474
00:38:08,052 --> 00:38:11,613
The art world was
pretty much like ifyou were not
doing this formalist abstraction,
475
00:38:11,722 --> 00:38:13,883
it was, like, considered passe...
476
00:38:13,991 --> 00:38:16,755
or narrative orwhatever, literary.
477
00:38:16,861 --> 00:38:18,829
It wasn`t purely, you know-
478
00:38:18,929 --> 00:38:23,992
And I think that that`s why Louise,
um, was a little bit on the fringe.
479
00:38:24,101 --> 00:38:26,661
She reallywasn`t well known and, um,
480
00:38:26,771 --> 00:38:28,705
you could even say ignored
for a certain time.
481
00:38:28,806 --> 00:38:32,606
In the mid-`70s,
I think that started to change.
482
00:38:32,710 --> 00:38:35,440
What art couid be was being ex,piored.
483
00:38:35,546 --> 00:38:39,004
There were aii kinds ofprotest movements
going on at that period.
484
00:38:39,116 --> 00:38:42,210
So there were other kinds
ofthings that came in art.
485
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,051
For me, it reaiiy occurred
because ofLouise.
486
00:38:46,157 --> 00:38:50,457
[ Drums Beating ]
487
00:38:50,561 --> 00:38:52,791
[ No Audi ble Dialogue ]
488
00:38:54,598 --> 00:38:56,463
[ No Audible Dialogue ]
489
00:39:03,441 --> 00:39:07,434
[ Chanting ]
Culture is not elite!. WAC is watching!
490
00:39:07,545 --> 00:39:11,140
Culture is not elite!
WAC is watching!
491
00:39:11,248 --> 00:39:12,442
[Demonstrator]
Who`s art? Ourart!
492
00:39:12,550 --> 00:39:16,543
It was the opening show-
the opening show
ofthe downtown Guggenheim.
493
00:39:16,654 --> 00:39:22,115
It was their inaugural show.
So, uh, the Guerilla Girls
had the idea...
494
00:39:22,226 --> 00:39:27,391
to protest the, uh, show,
and we published this card.
495
00:39:27,498 --> 00:39:29,466
Doyou wanna-
Doyou wanna read the card?.
496
00:39:29,567 --> 00:39:34,334
Yeah. I wrote the card,
so I should be able to read it.
Um, here`s the card.
497
00:39:34,438 --> 00:39:37,965
We sent it to Thomas Krens
at the Guggenheim Museum Downtown,
498
00:39:38,075 --> 00:39:42,375
575 Broadway.
And it was sent on January 23, 1 992.
499
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,449
""Dear Mr. Krens-
Welcome to downtown.
500
00:39:45,549 --> 00:39:47,983
""We`ve been hearing
all aboutyour opening show,
501
00:39:48,085 --> 00:39:51,145
"""FourWhite Boys
at the White Boys Museum.`
502
00:39:51,255 --> 00:39:52,950
Lots ofluck.``
503
00:39:53,057 --> 00:39:57,517
We circulated hundreds
ofthese cards to, um-
504
00:39:57,628 --> 00:40:01,257
To art lovers
and art world people.
WAC members.
505
00:40:01,365 --> 00:40:04,027
A lot ofthese cards
ended up on his desk.
506
00:40:04,135 --> 00:40:06,899
Hundreds and hundreds ofthem
piled up on his desk.
507
00:40:07,004 --> 00:40:10,303
And at the very last minute
they added Louise Bourgeois...
508
00:40:10,408 --> 00:40:14,344
and changed the name
ofthe show to be
""From Brancusi-to-Bourgeois.``
509
00:40:14,445 --> 00:40:18,211
So we thought that our tactics
had been successful.
510
00:40:18,315 --> 00:40:19,942
Evidentiy, it worked.
Yeah.
511
00:40:20,050 --> 00:40:23,178
Also, Louise had been
an icon for the Guerilla Girls.
512
00:40:23,287 --> 00:40:26,654
She was, um, the subject
of one ofthe lines...
513
00:40:26,757 --> 00:40:29,590
in our ""The Advantages of Being
a Woman Artist`` poster.
514
00:40:29,693 --> 00:40:31,661
Where is that poster?.
Where`s that poster?.
515
00:40:31,762 --> 00:40:34,959
We brought that poster.
It`s in one ofthose bags.
It`s over there somewhere.
516
00:40:35,065 --> 00:40:37,329
[ Speaking,
Indistinct ]
Okay.
517
00:40:40,237 --> 00:40:42,205
Can you read it?.
What does it say?.
518
00:40:42,306 --> 00:40:47,471
""Knowing thatyour career
might pick up afteryou`re 80``
is one ofthe lines.
519
00:40:47,578 --> 00:40:51,844
She was a symboi ofsomebody
who`d been around fora iong time...
520
00:40:51,949 --> 00:40:56,477
and then did actually get
some acknowledgment
at a later point in life.
521
00:40:56,587 --> 00:40:59,886
I think that was very inspirational
for many people.
Mm-hmm.
522
00:40:59,990 --> 00:41:02,151
Although, she herself,
as I understand it,
523
00:41:02,259 --> 00:41:04,386
does not believe
that she is a feminist.
524
00:41:04,495 --> 00:41:09,933
She believes she is an artist first
and not a- not a feminist per se.
525
00:41:10,034 --> 00:41:12,002
That didn`t stop us.
526
00:41:12,102 --> 00:41:15,037
Whether she likes it or not,
she`s our icon.
[ Laughs ]
527
00:41:15,139 --> 00:41:17,334
[ Speaking, Indistinct ]
528
00:41:18,042 --> 00:41:20,806
[Protesters chanting]
[Drums Beating]
529
00:41:25,483 --> 00:41:30,785
[Drums continues ]
[ Whistie Biowing]
530
00:41:32,823 --> 00:41:36,850
[ Drums continue ]
[ chanting continues ]
531
00:41:50,207 --> 00:41:52,698
[ Louise`s Voice ]
Generaiiy, I iike my teachers.
532
00:41:52,810 --> 00:41:56,302
By teacher, I meant peopie
who were much oider than I was.
533
00:42:10,494 --> 00:42:13,156
So Brancusi was very oid at the time.
534
00:42:13,264 --> 00:42:17,030
I think it was, uh, in `50s.
I know it was `53.
535
00:42:17,134 --> 00:42:21,901
He was very oid at the time, and it was
a kind ofa cruciai moment in his iife,
536
00:42:22,006 --> 00:42:25,601
where he was fi rst self-supporting
and a very strong man.
537
00:42:25,709 --> 00:42:29,406
You know, lifting those enormous things,
those pieces oflumber.
538
00:42:29,513 --> 00:42:31,947
He did that because he was
verytaii and verystrong.
539
00:42:32,049 --> 00:42:36,418
And then suddeniyhe became oid,
and he couidn`t do it anymore.
540
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,512
And that was the changing-
the changing time.
541
00:42:39,623 --> 00:42:42,217
I happened to meet him...
542
00:42:42,326 --> 00:42:46,319
when his studio was much smaiier
than my studio in Brookiyn.
543
00:42:46,430 --> 00:42:49,263
I t was very smal l.
So it was cluttered, you see.
544
00:42:49,366 --> 00:42:52,893
He had a shape like this,
then suddenly he had something to do,
545
00:42:53,003 --> 00:42:56,029
so he put that shape on another shape
and another shape.
546
00:42:56,140 --> 00:43:01,100
And that`s why it`s a series ofvases
that are put on top of each other.
547
00:43:01,211 --> 00:43:03,805
Pillars. Theywere pillars.
548
00:43:03,914 --> 00:43:07,281
And this never came to his mind.
I don`t know ifhe had one.
549
00:43:07,384 --> 00:43:08,874
But it-
[Laughing]
550
00:43:08,986 --> 00:43:14,049
It never came into his consciousness
that theywere piiiars.
551
00:43:14,158 --> 00:43:16,217
That`s it.
552
00:43:16,327 --> 00:43:19,262
[Amei ]
So iike The Endless Column.
Piiiars in that sense- phaiiic.
553
00:43:19,363 --> 00:43:22,264
I didn`t say that. You said that.
I did.
554
00:43:24,802 --> 00:43:26,770
They were pillars...
555
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:31,637
because the pillars had
a symbolic reminiscences...
556
00:43:31,742 --> 00:43:36,008
ofthose- the things
that he saw in his- in his youth.
557
00:43:36,113 --> 00:43:40,072
And I don`t know
ifhe- ifhe realized...
558
00:43:40,184 --> 00:43:42,846
that mother image ofthe pillar.
559
00:43:42,953 --> 00:43:44,944
But he- he made it.
560
00:43:45,055 --> 00:43:47,285
Naturally, it came thatway.
561
00:43:48,525 --> 00:43:50,720
And then when you are angry
at the motherfigure,
562
00:43:50,828 --> 00:43:53,194
you take the pillar, you know,
and you cut it in pieces.
563
00:43:53,297 --> 00:43:55,265
That I know.
564
00:43:55,366 --> 00:43:57,891
And so it becomes-
It reverts-
565
00:43:58,002 --> 00:44:01,631
It reverts to the origin-
original shape.
566
00:44:01,739 --> 00:44:04,071
That is a seat. It is a seat, right.
That`s true.
567
00:44:04,174 --> 00:44:06,142
Becomes a seat.
568
00:44:06,243 --> 00:44:10,145
You push it sideways,
it becomes another seat a little lower.
569
00:44:10,247 --> 00:44:12,738
And then when he feels good-
when he feels good,
570
00:44:12,850 --> 00:44:16,411
he feels that people like him,
and maybe he likes the people a little bit.
571
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,921
Then he builds up
his spirits again. Okay?.
572
00:44:20,024 --> 00:44:22,549
So it is like a game,
a game ofa child.
573
00:44:22,660 --> 00:44:24,855
You do it, and then you undo it,
574
00:44:24,962 --> 00:44:27,021
and then you redo it,
575
00:44:27,131 --> 00:44:30,464
and that is, uh-
that`s theway I see him.
576
00:44:30,567 --> 00:44:33,934
[ Gorovoy]
The size andpattern-
The actuai form.
577
00:44:41,011 --> 00:44:44,344
[ Louise ]
Marion, are we through?
578
00:45:25,556 --> 00:45:28,024
[ Louise ]
And-And, uh,
[ Footsteps Approaching ]
579
00:45:28,125 --> 00:45:33,392
the new chapter is caiied
""The Seamstress, the Mistress. ``
580
00:45:33,497 --> 00:45:35,556
[Amei ]
The Seamstress, the Mistress.
[ Louise ] Right. Right.
581
00:45:35,666 --> 00:45:38,499
[ Marion ]
The Seamstress and the Mistress.
[ Louise ] Right.
582
00:45:38,602 --> 00:45:41,400
The theme ofthe mistress
are erotic drawings,
583
00:45:41,505 --> 00:45:44,668
but there is another thing
which is very, very deep,
584
00:45:44,775 --> 00:45:46,743
which is the seamstress.
585
00:45:49,113 --> 00:45:52,708
I did not go around iooking
at the- at the needie workers.
586
00:45:52,816 --> 00:45:57,276
I didn`t do that,
but I wouid sit and watch the seamstress.
587
00:45:58,722 --> 00:46:00,690
You know what she was doing?
588
00:46:00,791 --> 00:46:03,919
She was repairing
the pants ofmy father.
589
00:46:04,027 --> 00:46:06,018
That was herjob.
590
00:46:06,130 --> 00:46:08,860
She was repairing the pants.
She was repairing-
591
00:46:08,966 --> 00:46:12,129
She was doing
the iittie brassieres for me.
592
00:46:12,236 --> 00:46:17,071
She was-
She was cutting, sewing...
593
00:46:17,174 --> 00:46:21,907
and, uh, finishing
some iittie panties for me.
594
00:46:22,012 --> 00:46:25,812
Right? And everything
went into that-that room.
595
00:46:25,916 --> 00:46:27,884
That iinen room.
596
00:46:29,953 --> 00:46:33,389
That was the most important room
in the house...
597
00:46:33,490 --> 00:46:36,459
because probabiyyou iearned about-
598
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,052
In the- In the iinen room,
you iearned about, uh,
599
00:46:40,164 --> 00:46:42,860
bodyparts and sex, and so on.
Mm-hmm.
600
00:46:51,375 --> 00:46:56,335
[ Gorovoy`s Voice ] One day, she goes,
"Jerry, go upstairs and bring aii
the ciothes downstairs in the cioset. ``
601
00:46:56,446 --> 00:46:58,573
And so I bring down aii these ciothes.
602
00:46:58,682 --> 00:47:01,378
The nex,t thing I know,
she starts putting the garments in order.
603
00:47:01,485 --> 00:47:03,612
The nex,t thing I know,
she`s cutting, she`s stuffing.
604
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:08,953
And aii ofa sudden, this is the raw materiai
for her nex,t body ofwork.
605
00:47:09,059 --> 00:47:11,857
So iike everything in Louise,
it`s coming from manypoints.
606
00:47:13,463 --> 00:47:17,559
It`s aiso another form ofa diary for her.
And I think maybe on a very-
607
00:47:17,668 --> 00:47:21,160
I know on a certai n level,
she knew if she processed this as art,
608
00:47:21,271 --> 00:47:23,239
no one was gonna throw it out.
609
00:47:57,875 --> 00:48:02,244
[ Louise`s Voice ]
The originai idea started
with a verbai siip...
610
00:48:02,346 --> 00:48:07,045
when I said that the beautifui ciothes
were a bone ofcontention...
611
00:48:07,150 --> 00:48:09,175
between my two parents.
612
00:48:11,121 --> 00:48:16,491
They bickered among themseives
ofwhoever wouid dress me the best.
613
00:48:19,730 --> 00:48:21,789
My father wouid say, ""Ah!
614
00:48:21,899 --> 00:48:25,562
Didyou see that iittie Paui Poiret
that I got for her?``
615
00:48:25,669 --> 00:48:29,366
And my mother wouid say,
""Oh, it`s not bad,
616
00:48:29,473 --> 00:48:32,374
but coco chanei is better."`
617
00:48:39,950 --> 00:48:42,248
That is where it aii started.
618
00:49:32,936 --> 00:49:35,905
[ Chatteri ng ]
619
00:49:39,476 --> 00:49:43,037
I have one question.
Why is the piece called confrontation?
620
00:49:43,146 --> 00:49:45,205
Because all these boxes
confront each other...
621
00:49:45,315 --> 00:49:50,218
and all these boxes
represent one of us.
622
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,756
And theyhave to take
theirpiace in the circie...
623
00:49:53,857 --> 00:49:56,883
and face themseives,
624
00:49:56,994 --> 00:49:59,019
uh, in front ofthe others.
625
00:49:59,129 --> 00:50:03,395
Nothing can, uh, iet us
escape this confrontation.
626
00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:08,335
We have to come to terms with-
with ourselves, with how bad we are.
627
00:50:09,406 --> 00:50:12,034
[ Woman ]
How bad we are?
How bad we are.
628
00:50:14,578 --> 00:50:18,275
[ Storr]
For this performance, one ofthe first times,
when she sort ofrounded up her band...
629
00:50:18,382 --> 00:50:22,113
of, you know,
the hoie-in-the-waii gang
that she created for herseif...
630
00:50:22,219 --> 00:50:25,814
of, you know-
you know, maie stripper,
631
00:50:25,922 --> 00:50:30,359
woman performing artist,
who caterwauis the ""She Abandoned Me, ``
aii this stuff.
632
00:50:30,460 --> 00:50:34,794
And then she invited the art worid.
And she co-opts a number
ofpeopie ofnote...
633
00:50:34,898 --> 00:50:37,332
into this sort oftravesty
ofthe fashion show...
634
00:50:37,434 --> 00:50:40,892
and ofthe body and ofmascuiinity
and femininity and so on.
635
00:50:41,004 --> 00:50:43,097
[ Woman chattering ]
636
00:50:44,107 --> 00:50:46,507
Everyone just disappeared.
637
00:50:46,610 --> 00:50:48,578
J ust like my mother.
638
00:50:50,847 --> 00:50:52,747
[ Vioiin ]
She abandoned me.
639
00:50:54,684 --> 00:50:56,652
She abandoned me.
640
00:50:57,654 --> 00:51:00,054
She
641
00:51:00,157 --> 00:51:04,992
Abandoned
[ Laughter]
642
00:51:05,095 --> 00:51:09,327
Me
643
00:51:10,667 --> 00:51:14,865
She abandoned
644
00:51:14,971 --> 00:51:17,269
Me
645
00:51:19,176 --> 00:51:21,337
She
646
00:51:21,445 --> 00:51:25,404
Abandoned
647
00:51:25,515 --> 00:51:27,676
Me
648
00:51:28,952 --> 00:51:34,185
A long, long, long
649
00:51:34,291 --> 00:51:38,284
Time ago
[ Applause ]
650
00:51:39,763 --> 00:51:42,027
You are not listening!
651
00:51:42,132 --> 00:51:46,592
You are not listening to me
becauseyou are afraid ofme.
652
00:51:46,703 --> 00:51:49,399
Right?.
But I don`t mind that.
I understand it.
653
00:51:49,506 --> 00:51:51,474
I am going to repeat.
654
00:51:51,575 --> 00:51:55,011
And then Amei comes and says,
""No, you cannot repeat it...
655
00:51:55,112 --> 00:51:59,776
because the onlyversion that
is valid is the spontaneous one.``
656
00:51:59,883 --> 00:52:02,613
[Amei]
You`re misquoting me.
I am quoting you.
657
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,449
[Man On Tape Piayer, Indistinct]
658
00:52:05,555 --> 00:52:08,149
[ Stops Tape Piayer]
[ Gorovoy ]
Wait a second.
659
00:52:08,258 --> 00:52:11,716
[ Louise On Tape Player ]
660
00:52:11,828 --> 00:52:15,594
Okay, we`ll record over it. Okay.
[ Louise ]
No, butyou see, it`s too iate.
661
00:52:15,699 --> 00:52:18,361
[ Marion ]
No, I won`t put it in, Louise.
No, no, I don`t want it.
662
00:52:18,468 --> 00:52:21,198
[ Wye`s Voice ]
She aiways was so-
aimost seif-destructive...
663
00:52:21,304 --> 00:52:23,795
in terms ofpeopie
who wanted to show her work...
664
00:52:23,907 --> 00:52:26,034
orpeopie who wanted
to write about her work.
665
00:52:26,143 --> 00:52:29,044
Shejust put up so many roadbiocks.
666
00:52:29,146 --> 00:52:33,549
Even her dealer, who was
Xavier Fourcade, didn`t know how
much work she had at the time.
667
00:52:33,650 --> 00:52:35,982
And so he would ask me,
""How much work??`
668
00:52:36,086 --> 00:52:38,782
And she would do funny things,
like bring me down into the basement-
669
00:52:38,889 --> 00:52:41,380
this was really the lowest basement-
and turn on the light.
670
00:52:41,491 --> 00:52:44,460
And I would look around and see
all this work. I couldn`t believe it.
671
00:52:44,561 --> 00:52:47,724
And-And she would then
shut the light and say,
672
00:52:47,831 --> 00:52:51,562
""I`ve showedyou too much.
I`ve showedyou too much."`
[ Laughs ]
673
00:52:51,668 --> 00:52:53,568
And I had a tremendous amount
of research.
674
00:52:53,670 --> 00:52:58,266
And so I had the idea of proposing
that MoMA do a show.
675
00:52:58,375 --> 00:53:01,469
And I had only been working here
a couple ofyears at that point.
676
00:53:01,578 --> 00:53:05,605
Andljust wrote a memo to Biii Rubin
that I had been working on this,
677
00:53:05,715 --> 00:53:09,583
and that,you know, there was no book
on Louise at this point.
678
00:53:09,686 --> 00:53:14,089
But I didn`t know at that time
that I wouid be the one to do it.
679
00:53:14,191 --> 00:53:16,386
[ Peopie chattering ]
680
00:53:16,493 --> 00:53:18,393
[ camera Shutter ciicks ]
681
00:53:30,941 --> 00:53:34,468
[ Louise`s Voice ]
A iot of, uh, peopie are so obsessed...
682
00:53:34,578 --> 00:53:37,445
by the past that they die of it.
683
00:53:37,547 --> 00:53:41,881
This is the attitude ofthe poet
who never finds the iost heaven,
684
00:53:41,985 --> 00:53:45,716
and it is reaiiy the situation
ofartists who work for-
685
00:53:45,822 --> 00:53:48,586
for a reason that nobody
can quite grasp,
686
00:53:48,692 --> 00:53:52,219
ex,cept that they might want
to reconstruct something ofthe past.
687
00:53:52,329 --> 00:53:56,459
It is that the past, for certain peopie,
have such a hoie-
688
00:53:56,566 --> 00:53:59,433
[ Storr] The, um, siide show basicaiiy
that was used at the Modern...
689
00:53:59,536 --> 00:54:03,097
was the first time that the mistress story
came out as such.
690
00:54:03,206 --> 00:54:07,006
Because the suppiement that she did
for Art Forum and the siide show
that Geraid and I did...
691
00:54:07,110 --> 00:54:11,604
was the first time that the mistress story
was reaiiy being discussed by her.
692
00:54:15,151 --> 00:54:18,552
[ Louise`s Voice ]
This is the mistress showing off
aii in white.
693
00:54:18,655 --> 00:54:24,218
The story ofSadie is to me aimost
as important as the story
ofmy mother in my iife.
694
00:54:24,327 --> 00:54:29,287
She was introduced in the famiiy
as a teacher for Pierre and myseif.
695
00:54:29,399 --> 00:54:33,392
She siept with my father
and she iived in the house.
696
00:54:33,503 --> 00:54:38,634
She was there for 1 0years in
the formative years ofmy sister and myseif.
697
00:54:38,742 --> 00:54:43,805
The motivation for the work
is a negative reaction against her.
698
00:54:43,913 --> 00:54:48,441
It shows that it is reaiiy the anger
that makes me work.
699
00:54:48,551 --> 00:54:52,078
Aii my work ofthe iast 50years,
700
00:54:52,188 --> 00:54:56,522
aii my subject have found
their inspiration
in my chiidhood.
701
00:54:56,626 --> 00:54:59,254
My chiidhood
has never iost its magic.
702
00:54:59,362 --> 00:55:03,628
It has never iost its mystery,
and it has never iost
its drama.
703
00:55:04,868 --> 00:55:07,837
My mother,
who was a perfectionist,
704
00:55:07,937 --> 00:55:10,462
she was a tapestry woman
in Aubusson.
705
00:55:10,573 --> 00:55:15,533
Repaired her tapestry
with fast coiors, vegetabie coiors...
706
00:55:15,645 --> 00:55:17,613
that she dyed herseif.
707
00:55:17,714 --> 00:55:22,777
This is why we iived on the creuse
in Aubusson and iater on the Bievre.
708
00:55:22,886 --> 00:55:25,480
The water is fuii oftannin...
709
00:55:25,588 --> 00:55:30,116
which is indispensabie
as a biting agent for the fiber.
710
00:55:30,226 --> 00:55:33,059
This is the kind oftapestry
we deait with.
711
00:55:33,163 --> 00:55:35,631
When it was washed,
it was iifted up.
712
00:55:35,732 --> 00:55:39,395
And then two at one end
and two at the other
wouid twist the tapestry.
713
00:55:39,502 --> 00:55:43,734
And it was then set to dry
and then repaired.
714
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:45,831
It is a signature styie.
715
00:55:45,942 --> 00:55:49,343
The signature style
is the twisting and many-
716
00:55:49,446 --> 00:55:51,380
You have it right there.
717
00:55:51,481 --> 00:55:55,941
Many- Many theme has come-
have come from the twisting.
718
00:55:57,721 --> 00:56:01,054
[Amei] The spirai and the twisting,
the two themes.
That`s right, the same thing.
719
00:56:01,157 --> 00:56:04,251
[Amei ]
And so why doyou think that
twisting impressedyou so much?
720
00:56:04,361 --> 00:56:06,329
Was it frightening?
Was it impressive?
721
00:56:06,429 --> 00:56:11,389
No, it was-
it was so... efficient.
722
00:56:11,501 --> 00:56:13,765
It is oniy efficient.
723
00:56:16,706 --> 00:56:19,300
[ Marion ]
It`s powerfui too.
Very.
724
00:56:21,444 --> 00:56:24,607
[Amei ]
And do you remember the coiors
coming out ofthe water?
725
00:56:24,714 --> 00:56:26,614
The coiors did not
come out ofthe water.
726
00:56:26,716 --> 00:56:30,675
This is a cruciai question
because the dyeing ofthe-
[ Fades ]
727
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,972
Is to iook at it and say ""gee."`
728
00:57:01,084 --> 00:57:04,247
You see?.
You see, i m mediately this twisting.
729
00:57:04,354 --> 00:57:06,584
That is to be a scuiptor.
730
00:57:26,476 --> 00:57:30,469
[ Gorovoy`s Voice ]
I think in a strange way, iooking back
when Louise had the show in `8.2,
731
00:57:30,580 --> 00:57:33,515
that moment she toid the story
ofthe mistress and Sadie,
and a stranger was iike,
732
00:57:33,616 --> 00:57:37,950
""That was a big mistake because peopie
wiii use that to interpret the work, ``
which is crazy.
733
00:57:39,389 --> 00:57:43,120
The work is much more compiex,
than, you know- than that story.
734
00:58:33,543 --> 00:58:36,512
[ Man Singing In French ]
735
00:58:46,155 --> 00:58:50,717
[ Storr`s Voice ]
First ofaii, she had had this very iong,
piatonic affair with Aifred Barr,
736
00:58:50,827 --> 00:58:53,796
who was the founding director
ofthe Museum ofModern Art.
737
00:58:53,897 --> 00:58:58,095
Barr had to do with her meeting
Robert Goidwater...
738
00:58:58,201 --> 00:58:59,998
in, I guess, it was, `38..
739
00:59:01,104 --> 00:59:04,073
Goidwater was in France.
He was finishing up his Ph.D. thesis
for Harvard...
740
00:59:04,173 --> 00:59:07,836
which was Primitivism and Modern Art,
which was a pioneering thesis...
741
00:59:07,944 --> 00:59:12,779
on the reiation ofmodern art
to the art of chiidren
to the art ofthe insane...
742
00:59:12,882 --> 00:59:15,442
and to the traditions oftribai art.
743
00:59:18,821 --> 00:59:22,587
[Jean-Louis ]
My father was an ex,tremeiy
inteiiigent man,
744
00:59:22,692 --> 00:59:25,183
a remarkabie thinker and writer.
745
00:59:25,295 --> 00:59:27,286
And he was interested in African art...
746
00:59:27,397 --> 00:59:33,063
and was the director
ofthe Museum ofPrimitive Art
for its entire ex,istence...
747
00:59:35,238 --> 00:59:37,706
before it was incorporated
into the Metropoiitan.
748
00:59:39,876 --> 00:59:43,778
Yes, I met hi m
at the library and, uh-
749
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:45,973
and he was interested.
750
00:59:46,082 --> 00:59:50,951
He was sent-
He was sent to me by Aifred Barr.
751
00:59:51,054 --> 00:59:53,079
Which one came first,
I don`t remember.
752
00:59:58,995 --> 01:00:04,058
And the warwas declared
and all the Americans left.
753
01:00:04,167 --> 01:00:06,362
And Robert said,
754
01:00:06,469 --> 01:00:09,870
""No, I`m not leaving unless-
755
01:00:09,973 --> 01:00:14,307
I`m not leaving
unless Louise comes with me.``
756
01:00:14,410 --> 01:00:16,970
Right.
`Cause I have no more mother...
757
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:21,016
and the mistresses
were all around...
758
01:00:21,117 --> 01:00:25,383
and nothing to- nothing to-
759
01:00:25,488 --> 01:00:27,547
No reason to stay there.
760
01:00:46,676 --> 01:00:49,406
[Louise`s Voice ]
The space in New York
I thought was breathtaking.
761
01:00:49,512 --> 01:00:54,449
The skywas so big
and the skyiine was so- so open.
762
01:00:54,550 --> 01:00:58,543
And the sky ofNew York
is a very biue, very ciear sky.
763
01:00:58,655 --> 01:01:02,318
So it was- it was
a very beautifui iandscape to me.
764
01:01:16,472 --> 01:01:19,339
[ Louise`s Voice ]
I suffered from an acute homesickness.
765
01:01:22,345 --> 01:01:26,372
To recreate the famiiy consteiiation...
766
01:01:26,482 --> 01:01:31,146
heiped me overcome or endure
this- this nostaigia.
767
01:01:32,188 --> 01:01:37,649
So that whoie period is about
la nostalgie, ou la mal du pays,
768
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,388
which is a form ofmourning.
769
01:01:44,967 --> 01:01:50,098
It reminds me ofa period ofwhich
foiiows my- my coming to New York.
770
01:01:51,307 --> 01:01:55,573
At a time when-
[ Clears Throat ]
771
01:01:55,678 --> 01:01:59,546
a iot offather figures appeared
on the scene.
772
01:01:59,649 --> 01:02:04,484
As you aii know,
the surreaiists came over, en masse.
773
01:02:04,587 --> 01:02:07,579
First, Max, Ernst,
774
01:02:07,690 --> 01:02:11,023
and then-
and then Marcei Duchamp.
775
01:02:11,127 --> 01:02:15,029
[ Men Laughing ]
[ Man Speaking French ]
776
01:02:20,870 --> 01:02:24,601
[ Louise ]
And then Andre Masson
and then Andre Breton.
777
01:02:24,707 --> 01:02:27,403
That whoie group ofpeopie...
778
01:02:27,510 --> 01:02:30,604
made me violent because
they were very close to me...
779
01:02:30,713 --> 01:02:34,444
and because I objected
to them violently.
780
01:02:38,988 --> 01:02:42,446
Maybe I objected
to theiriordiymanner,
781
01:02:42,558 --> 01:02:46,927
to theirsuccess,
to their ""pontificaiite."`
782
01:02:47,029 --> 01:02:51,966
Weii, considering my running
away from home, from my country
and from my father,
783
01:02:52,068 --> 01:02:56,027
it was obvious that
any father figures appearing...
784
01:02:56,139 --> 01:02:58,767
from France onto these shores...
785
01:02:58,875 --> 01:03:03,073
was going to- was going to...
786
01:03:03,179 --> 01:03:06,148
rub me the wrong way,
and it did.
787
01:03:06,249 --> 01:03:11,482
[ Louise ]
It means that whatyou want to say
and is not said, is that-
788
01:03:11,587 --> 01:03:13,487
"" Do you like your father??`
"" No, I don`t.``
789
01:03:13,589 --> 01:03:15,955
I have not made peace
with my father yet.
790
01:03:16,058 --> 01:03:19,721
And I have not made peace
with surrealism.
791
01:03:19,829 --> 01:03:21,490
This is it.
792
01:03:21,597 --> 01:03:26,091
That is why I identified
with Fran�oise Sagan.
793
01:03:26,202 --> 01:03:30,366
Fran�oise Sagan is a sister to me.
[Amei]
Reaiiy?
794
01:03:30,473 --> 01:03:34,534
This is almost my story.
795
01:03:34,644 --> 01:03:37,135
And Fran�oise Sagan
is my sister, that`s it.
796
01:03:37,246 --> 01:03:41,478
[Amei]
That`s right. Because it`s about
a seductive fatherwho-and she`s-
797
01:03:41,584 --> 01:03:45,577
And she murders.
She murders the mistress.
That`s right.
798
01:03:45,688 --> 01:03:49,283
She manipuiates.
She organizes...
799
01:03:49,392 --> 01:03:54,557
the mechanics of-
ofthe mistress `s death on the road.
800
01:03:55,598 --> 01:03:59,796
And this is
the connection with camus-
[ Fades ]
801
01:04:41,544 --> 01:04:46,106
[Amei ] What was it about Goidwater
that attractedyou in the beginning-
in the very beginning?
802
01:04:46,215 --> 01:04:48,547
[ Louise ]
That he was the ex,act opposite-
803
01:04:48,651 --> 01:04:51,484
absoiuteiy ex,act opposite
ofmy father.
804
01:04:51,587 --> 01:04:53,487
But in a very strange way.
805
01:04:53,589 --> 01:04:58,083
In temperament,
he reminded me ofmy mother. Yes.
806
01:04:58,194 --> 01:05:03,496
And I have ex,piained that
when I taik about The Spiders-
807
01:05:03,599 --> 01:05:06,090
a certain kind of temperament.
808
01:05:08,037 --> 01:05:10,198
[Amei ]
Ex,piain it.
809
01:05:10,306 --> 01:05:12,968
Oh, no, I have talked so much
about The Spiders.
810
01:05:13,075 --> 01:05:16,169
The Spiders are all over the place...
and they have been-
811
01:05:16,279 --> 01:05:20,682
The Spiders have been
my most successful subject.
812
01:05:20,783 --> 01:05:22,774
So I must be convincing.
813
01:05:24,220 --> 01:05:27,189
[ Beii Sounding]
814
01:05:31,661 --> 01:05:33,686
[ Louise`s Voice ]
Theymust carry a message.
815
01:05:36,666 --> 01:05:39,692
A message ofthe temperament I iove.
816
01:05:49,278 --> 01:05:53,908
[ Louise`s Voice ]
The Spider is mymother,
beiieve it or not.
817
01:05:54,016 --> 01:05:57,975
That is to say the person
who`s totaiiy reiiabie,
818
01:05:58,087 --> 01:05:59,850
totaiiy inteiiectuai,
819
01:05:59,956 --> 01:06:03,187
totaiiy iogicai
with no burst ofpassion.
820
01:06:03,292 --> 01:06:05,556
I reaiiy don`t appreciate the passion.
821
01:06:06,829 --> 01:06:09,798
[ Object cianging Loudiy]
822
01:06:13,903 --> 01:06:18,670
It is my mother, not oniy that,
but I try to imitate her.
823
01:06:18,774 --> 01:06:21,504
I try to be as smart
as she used to be.
824
01:06:21,610 --> 01:06:24,477
[ Louise ]
So there are these things
sticking out there.
825
01:06:27,416 --> 01:06:30,783
Right. So another-
another quality of this...
826
01:06:30,886 --> 01:06:35,255
is that they can be
banged around, right.
827
01:06:35,358 --> 01:06:40,227
I hope I`m not wrong,
but they can be banged around
and they can take a lot.
828
01:06:40,329 --> 01:06:43,594
Yeah, they can take it.
They have to take a lot.
829
01:06:43,699 --> 01:06:47,897
Now, to be specific,
uh, it took months.
830
01:06:48,004 --> 01:06:50,165
Let us say it took six months.
831
01:06:50,272 --> 01:06:53,298
The Spider project was that long.
832
01:06:53,409 --> 01:06:57,869
But it had many precedents.
So you see ie fii?
833
01:06:57,980 --> 01:07:02,815
Le fii de i`araignee
is exemplified by this.
834
01:07:02,918 --> 01:07:04,909
You see them?. Right?.
835
01:07:05,021 --> 01:07:09,355
It is endless.
[ Speaking French ]
836
01:07:16,832 --> 01:07:19,562
I`m interested in peopie which-
837
01:07:19,668 --> 01:07:23,832
who instead ofanaiyzing,
put things together.
838
01:07:23,939 --> 01:07:26,339
Right?
They see something here...
839
01:07:26,442 --> 01:07:31,072
and they see something there
and nobody sees any connection.
840
01:07:31,180 --> 01:07:34,581
But I see a connection
and this is the vaiue ofmy work.
841
01:07:35,684 --> 01:07:38,380
[ Women, computerized Voices ]
So hoid me, Mom
842
01:07:42,458 --> 01:07:46,519
In your iong arms
843
01:07:50,166 --> 01:07:53,329
So hoid me, Mom
844
01:07:56,939 --> 01:08:00,705
In your iong arms
845
01:08:04,647 --> 01:08:09,311
In your automatic arms
846
01:08:12,922 --> 01:08:15,652
Your eiectronic arms
847
01:08:15,758 --> 01:08:18,693
[ Louise`s Voice ]
The Spider, it is an ode to my mother.
848
01:08:18,794 --> 01:08:23,891
To go a iittie further,
it represents a reconciiiation.
849
01:08:23,999 --> 01:08:27,059
[ Women, computerized Voices ]
So hoid me, Mom
850
01:08:29,038 --> 01:08:32,132
In your iong arms
851
01:08:32,241 --> 01:08:35,039
[ Louise`s Voice ]
That is to say, I try terribiy hard...
852
01:08:35,144 --> 01:08:37,112
to be the thinking...
853
01:08:37,213 --> 01:08:41,013
and the caicuiating person
that my mother was.
854
01:08:41,117 --> 01:08:44,177
Unfortunateiy,
I don`t make it very weii...
855
01:08:44,286 --> 01:08:47,449
and I am much more gifted
and happy...
856
01:08:47,556 --> 01:08:51,424
with the work of emotion
that my father represented.
857
01:08:51,527 --> 01:08:55,554
This is what I wanted to say.
So I am torn apart between the two.
858
01:08:59,735 --> 01:09:03,034
I inherited my mother`s inteiiect...
859
01:09:03,139 --> 01:09:05,607
and my father`s sick heart.
860
01:09:14,817 --> 01:09:18,048
[Jean-Louis `s Voice ]
I suspect it happened
just before her father died.
861
01:09:18,154 --> 01:09:21,385
Louise cooked this magnificent
ieg ofiamb one day.
862
01:09:21,490 --> 01:09:24,288
Her four men where there and...
863
01:09:24,393 --> 01:09:26,486
we did the stupidest thing possibie.
864
01:09:26,595 --> 01:09:30,929
We were speechiess
because Louise didn`t cook often.
865
01:09:31,033 --> 01:09:33,695
And Louise was furious.
866
01:09:33,802 --> 01:09:37,533
We iived three flights up
and she reacted...
867
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:41,235
by taking the ieg ofiamb
and throwing it out the window.
868
01:09:42,444 --> 01:09:44,378
So we aii went to the window
and iooked...
869
01:09:44,480 --> 01:09:46,414
to see where the ieg ofiamb
had roiied.
870
01:09:46,515 --> 01:09:48,415
And I was dispatched.
871
01:09:48,517 --> 01:09:52,351
I went to the right car and crawied under
and got the ieg ofiamb.
872
01:09:52,454 --> 01:09:55,184
The lam b was absol utely studded
with gravel.
873
01:09:55,291 --> 01:09:58,283
And, uh, I brought it back upstairs,
874
01:09:58,394 --> 01:10:02,330
took it over to the kitchen sink,
where it was washed...
875
01:10:02,431 --> 01:10:07,391
and we sat down
and ate it without a word.
876
01:10:14,543 --> 01:10:17,444
Inyour eiectronic arms
877
01:10:46,709 --> 01:10:50,145
[Amei]
Louise,you don`t aiiow
yourseifto waste time?
878
01:10:50,246 --> 01:10:51,611
[ Louise ]
That`s right. That`s right.
879
01:10:51,714 --> 01:10:53,614
What wouid wasting time
consist of?
880
01:10:53,716 --> 01:10:57,743
Being ungratefui for the time
which is given to you.
881
01:10:57,853 --> 01:11:00,822
[ chiidren Shouting, Laughing ]
882
01:11:02,558 --> 01:11:04,583
Does that sound
make you gratefui?
883
01:11:04,693 --> 01:11:08,493
Yes, it indicates the time ofthe day.
It means that it is 1 2:00.
884
01:11:08,597 --> 01:11:10,394
Is that right?
[ Laughs ]
Yes, right.
885
01:11:10,499 --> 01:11:13,627
Because the kids are out there?
Yes, right.
886
01:11:26,749 --> 01:11:30,583
Yes, we m ight talk
while J ean-Louis is still here.
887
01:11:30,686 --> 01:11:32,586
Right.
888
01:11:32,688 --> 01:11:35,782
Aii these drawings are done
during the night.
889
01:11:35,891 --> 01:11:38,519
[ Papers Rustiing]
890
01:11:40,529 --> 01:11:42,827
Teii me when I can-
891
01:11:46,535 --> 01:11:49,629
[ Marion ] I`m just foiiowing
your movements, so this is great.
Ri ght.
892
01:11:49,738 --> 01:11:52,206
Okay.
They are al I different.
893
01:11:55,678 --> 01:11:59,705
And there is one
which is a giveaway.
894
01:11:59,815 --> 01:12:01,874
You see this one?.
895
01:12:04,119 --> 01:12:09,557
That is the giveaway
which does not appear in any of the others.
896
01:12:09,658 --> 01:12:12,650
Took me a long time to know
what-what they meant.
897
01:12:12,761 --> 01:12:16,424
[ Gorovoy]
It`s the oniyfigure in the whoie thing.
It`s the oniyfigure in the whoie thing.
898
01:12:16,532 --> 01:12:18,625
Though there she is,
899
01:12:18,734 --> 01:12:21,897
as cozy as can be because-
900
01:12:22,004 --> 01:12:24,234
because the world is in order.
[ Phone Rings ]
901
01:12:24,340 --> 01:12:28,299
And it says, The Worid In Order.
902
01:12:28,410 --> 01:12:30,310
It is the title of the thing.
903
01:12:30,412 --> 01:12:35,145
And there she is, and she`s resting
because all these houses
relate to each other.
904
01:12:35,250 --> 01:12:37,411
And she feels better.
905
01:12:37,519 --> 01:12:40,920
That obviously then the night
indicates...
906
01:12:42,891 --> 01:12:45,018
a certain fear of chaos.
907
01:12:48,097 --> 01:12:51,624
So I do the houses until I feel-
908
01:12:51,734 --> 01:12:54,430
I feel peaceful and I fall asleep.
909
01:12:54,536 --> 01:12:56,936
And there are dozens ofthem.
910
01:12:57,039 --> 01:12:58,939
And they are all different.
911
01:13:11,553 --> 01:13:14,044
[ Gorovoy]
I thought it was interesting
to hearyou mention Paris-
912
01:13:14,156 --> 01:13:17,284
thatyou had actuaiiymet Louise`s father-
and I thought that
that was quite interesting.
913
01:13:17,393 --> 01:13:19,418
You were veryyoung,
you said, the first time.
914
01:13:19,528 --> 01:13:22,088
But I rememberyou toid me
your reaction to Louise`s father.
915
01:13:22,197 --> 01:13:24,461
You wanna hear about that?.
[Amei ]
Definiteiy.
916
01:13:24,566 --> 01:13:28,127
[Jean-Louis ]
Okay, um-
We were living in Stuyvesant`s Folly.
917
01:13:28,237 --> 01:13:31,832
[Jean-Louis ]
No, no, this happened
at the dinner, at, uh-
918
01:13:31,940 --> 01:13:34,704
on the Boulevard Saint-Germain-
the famous dinner-
919
01:13:34,810 --> 01:13:38,837
It wasn`t dinner.
And he prepared-
And there was- there was-
920
01:13:38,947 --> 01:13:42,212
[ Mutters ]
No, it was a huge-
It wasn`t at-
921
01:13:42,317 --> 01:13:45,047
He was sitting at the head ofthe table,
someone else was carving.
922
01:13:46,755 --> 01:13:50,919
So he was a big eater
and you could not interfere
with his meals.
923
01:13:51,026 --> 01:13:53,722
[Jean-Louis ]
The veryfirstpiece
ofmeat that was carved-
924
01:13:53,829 --> 01:13:55,626
It was beautiful.
925
01:13:55,731 --> 01:13:58,859
He reached all the way
across the table and stabbed it.
926
01:13:58,967 --> 01:14:00,935
And-And ate it instantiy.
927
01:14:01,036 --> 01:14:04,597
And it wasjust this, uh-
928
01:14:04,706 --> 01:14:08,472
this hunger-
this lust for protein was-
929
01:14:08,577 --> 01:14:10,704
[ Laughs ]
[Aii Laughing]
930
01:14:10,813 --> 01:14:13,509
Was extreme to say the least.
931
01:14:16,018 --> 01:14:19,579
So he frightened everybody.
[Jean-Louis ]
Yeah.
932
01:14:23,058 --> 01:14:27,358
[ Storr`s Voice ]
But it is aii around that time, `50, `51.
933
01:14:27,463 --> 01:14:30,489
Her father died, um, unex,pectediy.
934
01:14:30,599 --> 01:14:33,432
This reiationship
had been bitter before,
935
01:14:33,535 --> 01:14:35,628
and was recentiy more bitter again.
936
01:14:35,737 --> 01:14:38,672
He had never taken her seriousiy
as an artist, that is to say the father.
937
01:14:38,774 --> 01:14:41,072
She had not taken herseifseriousiy
as an artist.
938
01:14:41,176 --> 01:14:45,272
I mean, I don`t think the sense that
she didn`t take her own work seriousiy,
939
01:14:45,380 --> 01:14:49,248
but she didn`t believe she had it in her
to be an artist in a professional sense.
940
01:14:49,351 --> 01:14:52,787
And she was constantly
doubting her abilities.
941
01:14:52,888 --> 01:14:57,154
She hadhad quite a iot ofsuccess
bythe standards ofthose days.
942
01:14:57,259 --> 01:15:01,355
She was in the Modern`s coiiection
as of`50, `51.
943
01:15:01,463 --> 01:15:03,954
Louise was often the oniy woman
in shows...
944
01:15:04,066 --> 01:15:07,001
with other- ofthe
abstract ex,pressionists and so on.
945
01:15:10,205 --> 01:15:13,902
It`s that same cruciaiyears
between basicaiiy `46, `47..
946
01:15:14,009 --> 01:15:18,469
and `53 when she pretty much
stopped showing.
947
01:15:21,316 --> 01:15:26,344
But you read her diary and it`s full
of self-questioning and anger.
948
01:15:26,455 --> 01:15:29,891
And, uh,you know-
949
01:15:29,992 --> 01:15:32,517
It`s an enormous effort forher.
950
01:15:32,628 --> 01:15:36,257
Meanwhiie, she aiso wanted
to be the perfect wife...
951
01:15:36,365 --> 01:15:38,856
ofan esteemed inteiiectuai
in New York.
952
01:15:38,967 --> 01:15:42,869
She threw parties, she cooked,
she dressed, she did aii these things.
953
01:15:42,971 --> 01:15:46,566
She was the mother to sons,
but I think had a terribie time doing it,
954
01:15:46,675 --> 01:15:49,303
and not necessariiy did it very weii.
955
01:15:49,411 --> 01:15:52,608
And aii this together
sort ofconverged, I think,
956
01:15:52,714 --> 01:15:55,547
and when her father died
it aii came unstuck.
957
01:16:04,293 --> 01:16:07,888
[Jean-Louis `s voice ]
She withdrew in her grief.
958
01:16:07,996 --> 01:16:10,931
So she wasn`t-
959
01:16:11,033 --> 01:16:14,560
She, uh-
960
01:16:14,670 --> 01:16:17,503
She basical ly went to bed
for a long time.
961
01:16:17,606 --> 01:16:21,542
She just was, uh, devastated...
962
01:16:21,643 --> 01:16:25,135
and, uh, spent-
963
01:16:25,247 --> 01:16:27,875
would spend, um,
964
01:16:27,983 --> 01:16:32,010
most ofher days in bed for-
for quite some time.
965
01:16:39,194 --> 01:16:41,492
[Louise ]
Tangerine.
966
01:16:41,597 --> 01:16:44,896
The word is a stimuii forme.
967
01:16:46,668 --> 01:16:49,933
If I start drawing a figure...
968
01:16:50,038 --> 01:16:52,666
on the tangerine, right,
969
01:16:56,144 --> 01:17:00,478
Iittle by little,
the past is going to reemerge.
970
01:17:02,618 --> 01:17:07,920
And I will be able to verbalize it.
That`s it.
971
01:17:08,023 --> 01:17:12,585
Now, this is not mywork ofart.
It was my father`s work ofart.
972
01:17:12,694 --> 01:17:17,529
Around the end ofthe dinner,
on Sunday,
973
01:17:17,633 --> 01:17:20,966
he would take his tangerine
and he would stand up
and announce...
974
01:17:21,069 --> 01:17:25,563
that he was making
a little portrait ofhis daughter.
975
01:17:25,674 --> 01:17:28,768
And he had a way of,
after drawing it-
976
01:17:28,877 --> 01:17:31,607
he had a way of cutting it.
977
01:17:31,713 --> 01:17:36,082
Right. Soyou have to be
very careful on the cutting.
978
01:17:36,184 --> 01:17:38,618
Ifyou cut the wrong thing,
you are in a bad way.
979
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:41,917
And I do not mean this as a pun.
[ Clears Throat ]
980
01:17:42,024 --> 01:17:45,482
So, you lift up all these shapes...
981
01:17:45,594 --> 01:17:49,587
thatyou have drawn,
and then cut.
982
01:17:49,698 --> 01:17:54,465
So the drawing, the cutting,
and the lifting, right.
983
01:17:54,569 --> 01:17:57,902
And then when you reach
the navel,
984
01:17:58,006 --> 01:17:59,769
the core would come out.
985
01:17:59,875 --> 01:18:02,366
This is the moment
you would look inside...
986
01:18:02,477 --> 01:18:05,275
and the core was fantastic.
987
01:18:05,380 --> 01:18:07,348
He would marvel at it. Right?.
988
01:18:07,449 --> 01:18:09,747
And we were supposed
to marvel at it too. Right?.
989
01:18:09,851 --> 01:18:13,617
Look.Just look.
How impressive.
990
01:18:13,722 --> 01:18:16,247
Then he would turn and say,
""Well, I am sorry...
991
01:18:16,358 --> 01:18:20,818
""that my daughter
does not exhibit such beauty.
992
01:18:20,929 --> 01:18:23,830
""Because my little figure is very rich,
993
01:18:23,932 --> 01:18:27,868
and obviously my daughter
doesn`t have very much there.``
994
01:18:27,969 --> 01:18:30,938
The iittie creature wasjust a giri.
995
01:18:32,874 --> 01:18:36,776
Maybe the audience,
who never- neverpeeped,
996
01:18:36,878 --> 01:18:39,472
since they were being fed.
997
01:18:39,581 --> 01:18:43,950
They never peeped and maybe-
maybe some of them
felt sorry for us.
998
01:18:44,052 --> 01:18:46,043
But I didn`t realize that.
999
01:18:46,154 --> 01:18:49,351
I`m not, uh- I`m not saying
that theywere sorry.
1000
01:18:49,458 --> 01:18:54,361
I am saying that at the time
I felt that theywere laughing at us.
1001
01:18:54,463 --> 01:18:58,832
Theywere not-
Theywere not laughing with us.
Theywere laughing at us.
1002
01:18:58,934 --> 01:19:02,267
[Voice Cracking ]
And the pain was very great.
1003
01:19:10,312 --> 01:19:14,612
You can see that after 50 years,
for somebodywho doesn`t cry-
1004
01:19:14,716 --> 01:19:17,981
for after 50 years
the thing is so vivid,
1005
01:19:19,888 --> 01:19:23,119
that it is as ifit had happened
yesterday.
1006
01:19:28,697 --> 01:19:31,598
Aii these chiidren gatherup
in the night and what can they do...
1007
01:19:31,700 --> 01:19:35,158
except cry, cry, in the night.
[ Crying ]
1008
01:19:35,270 --> 01:19:37,238
And, uh-
1009
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:40,540
And it was completely useless.
1010
01:19:40,642 --> 01:19:44,976
All I want to say is that the people
who cry in the night like this
have a right to do so.
1011
01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:47,412
They don`t do it to be clever...
1012
01:19:47,516 --> 01:19:49,677
or they don`t do it
to disturb the peace.
1013
01:19:49,785 --> 01:19:53,482
They do it because, uh,
it helps them.
1014
01:19:53,588 --> 01:19:58,582
And sinceyou become very ugly
when you yell, you know,
1015
01:19:58,693 --> 01:20:01,093
the parents bring a mirror
and they say,
1016
01:20:01,196 --> 01:20:04,131
""Oh, don`tyell
becauseyou become ugly.``
1017
01:20:04,232 --> 01:20:09,727
But they meet in the night
because they cannot
see each other`s ugliness.
1018
01:20:09,838 --> 01:20:14,707
You understand?. And still this-
They feel each other`s warmth.
1019
01:20:14,810 --> 01:20:18,177
So they cry all night
and nobody knows why.
1020
01:20:41,102 --> 01:20:44,469
[Louise`s Voice ]
I overcame this trauma
through a dream.
1021
01:20:44,573 --> 01:20:50,170
He was teiiing his joke
and his eyes feii off
on the dinner tabie...
1022
01:20:50,278 --> 01:20:55,238
and the catjumped on the tabie
and gobbied up his two eyes.
1023
01:20:55,350 --> 01:20:57,944
I had achieved my revenge.
1024
01:21:38,627 --> 01:21:41,255
They are my hands,
1025
01:21:42,931 --> 01:21:44,922
as you can see by the size.
1026
01:21:47,869 --> 01:21:52,863
Ri ght. I t is his hands
that are holding my hands, right.
1027
01:21:52,974 --> 01:21:54,965
Is that the one or this one?.
No, that`s in that another one.
1028
01:21:55,076 --> 01:21:57,601
So we took the wrong one.
[ Laughs ]
1029
01:21:57,712 --> 01:21:59,680
And his hands then-
1030
01:22:00,949 --> 01:22:03,611
Like this.
Right.
1031
01:22:03,718 --> 01:22:05,583
My hands are over Louise`s hands.
Right.
1032
01:22:05,687 --> 01:22:08,815
Louise`s hands are like this.
So, my hands are like this.
Right. So this is where it came from.
1033
01:22:08,924 --> 01:22:12,724
- Like this.
- So it is really our hands.
1034
01:22:12,827 --> 01:22:15,762
[Amei]
Whydoes it seem important that
it beyourhands-yours andJerry`s?
1035
01:22:15,864 --> 01:22:18,162
Because- Because it means-
1036
01:22:18,266 --> 01:22:21,258
It shows how much
I care about the whole thing.
1037
01:22:21,369 --> 01:22:25,772
It shows how much the emotion
that this expresses is true.
1038
01:22:28,009 --> 01:22:32,969
It`s an emotion that has
been lived and that is real.
It`s not something made up.
1039
01:22:54,069 --> 01:22:57,266
I go backand, uh,
I unwind the past.
1040
01:23:01,643 --> 01:23:06,137
Andyou can see bythe work
there is a sequence to the work...
1041
01:23:07,849 --> 01:23:11,751
which is visibie in the aspect ofthe-
1042
01:23:11,853 --> 01:23:14,048
in the way the pieces iook.
1043
01:23:15,690 --> 01:23:18,488
And they go on and on
and on iike that.
1044
01:23:24,366 --> 01:23:26,698
Everything is organized.
1045
01:23:34,175 --> 01:23:36,143
On and on and on.
1046
01:23:43,184 --> 01:23:48,520
Ex,cept that the anx,iety remains
and the anx,iety makes me work more.
1047
01:23:49,624 --> 01:23:51,956
But the work is forpieasure...
1048
01:23:53,128 --> 01:23:56,825
because I feei better
after having done a piece.
1049
01:24:00,435 --> 01:24:02,403
I feei stronger.
1050
01:24:18,887 --> 01:24:22,084
[ Peopie chattering ]
1051
01:24:23,358 --> 01:24:26,794
[ Frances Morris `s Voice ]
My ex,perience with the towers
happened over a year.
1052
01:24:28,229 --> 01:24:30,424
I began with seeing a maquette...
1053
01:24:30,532 --> 01:24:32,932
and moved to another maquette...
1054
01:24:35,503 --> 01:24:37,471
and another.
1055
01:24:38,506 --> 01:24:43,000
And then a subsequent encounter
with the work
was roiied-up pieces ofsteei.
1056
01:24:43,111 --> 01:24:47,013
[ Machinery Grinding ]
1057
01:24:47,115 --> 01:24:49,242
And the beginnings ofcurves.
1058
01:24:55,256 --> 01:24:59,989
I n a very, very cold, um,
steelyard in Connecticut.
1059
01:25:00,095 --> 01:25:03,963
And my subsequent experience
with the work was daily construction here.
1060
01:25:04,065 --> 01:25:07,034
[ Toois Banging]
1061
01:25:41,102 --> 01:25:45,004
[ Tooi Driiiing]
1062
01:25:45,106 --> 01:25:47,336
[ Chattering ]
1063
01:25:49,511 --> 01:25:52,480
[ Toois Banging]
1064
01:25:54,782 --> 01:25:57,148
Can you go a little forward?.
[ Man ]
You mean more down?
1065
01:25:57,252 --> 01:25:59,220
Yeah.Just iike that.
1066
01:26:10,064 --> 01:26:13,033
[ Tooi Driiiing]
1067
01:26:38,593 --> 01:26:41,084
[ Man ]
Get me out!
[ Men Laughing]
1068
01:27:02,383 --> 01:27:06,217
[ Frances`s Voice ]
We finished these works about
1 0 minutes before the opening,
1069
01:27:06,321 --> 01:27:08,949
or 1 0 minutes
before the press came in.
1070
01:27:09,057 --> 01:27:12,823
And there was an extraordinary lull,
but there was nobody around.
1071
01:27:12,927 --> 01:27:15,862
The turbine hall was so quiet,
1072
01:27:15,964 --> 01:27:19,024
you could just hear the hum
ofthe transformers.
1073
01:27:19,133 --> 01:27:22,102
[Transformers Humming]
1074
01:27:23,137 --> 01:27:25,970
This was the end
ofan amazing project.
1075
01:27:26,074 --> 01:27:28,167
The institution was going
to open within days.
1076
01:27:28,276 --> 01:27:31,006
It was aii finished.
The towers were spectacuiar.
1077
01:27:31,112 --> 01:27:33,239
And I thought,
""Whiie nobody`s around,
I`m gonna do it."`
1078
01:27:34,949 --> 01:27:37,474
I went up I Do.
1079
01:27:43,224 --> 01:27:46,193
And I went very, very siowiy
and incredibiy seif-consciousiy.
1080
01:27:46,294 --> 01:27:48,489
And I think that`s one of
the key things about these works-
1081
01:27:48,596 --> 01:27:51,895
right at the start
they make you seif-conscious.
1082
01:27:56,437 --> 01:27:59,565
It`s about rupture,
the middie one.
1083
01:28:00,875 --> 01:28:04,208
And it`s about travei,
it`s about thejourney.
1084
01:28:24,432 --> 01:28:26,400
[ Door Bangi ng ]
1085
01:28:30,238 --> 01:28:35,437
[ Frances `s Voice ]
It`s a very unyieiding and veryprison-iike
ex,perience to come down that tower.
1086
01:28:44,485 --> 01:28:47,613
When you sit at the bottom
ofthe tower andyou iook up...
1087
01:28:47,722 --> 01:28:50,122
at the view from the bottom
ofthe weii,
1088
01:28:50,224 --> 01:28:54,422
there is a kind ofupward momentum,
that there is something up there.
1089
01:28:55,897 --> 01:28:57,865
[ Door Banging ]
1090
01:29:08,142 --> 01:29:12,010
I then went up I Redo.
1091
01:29:12,113 --> 01:29:15,241
And at the top ofthat tower
I became...
1092
01:29:15,350 --> 01:29:18,649
ex,traordinariiy absorbed
in the mirrors,
1093
01:29:18,753 --> 01:29:20,721
in myseif.
1094
01:29:22,357 --> 01:29:24,416
Because I put my hand up,
iike this,
1095
01:29:24,525 --> 01:29:28,518
and as I did i n the m i rror,
another hand emerged here.
1096
01:29:28,629 --> 01:29:32,759
Absolutely extraordinary
because Louise makes
these double-handed arms.
1097
01:29:42,910 --> 01:29:48,348
Forme, the first encounters
with Louise were reaiiy
as a kind ofhistoric figure-
1098
01:29:48,449 --> 01:29:51,850
a ciassic, modern, 20th century artist.
1099
01:29:53,988 --> 01:29:56,252
And then at subsequent encounters
with her...
1100
01:29:56,357 --> 01:29:59,588
were encounters
with a contemporary artist.
1101
01:30:02,430 --> 01:30:06,833
And for me, I think she`s reaiiy
the oniy figure in 20th century art...
1102
01:30:06,934 --> 01:30:10,131
that I see i n both these contexts.
1103
01:30:15,076 --> 01:30:18,568
I think as she has become
physicaiiy oider,
1104
01:30:18,679 --> 01:30:21,307
and in a way more ambitious,
1105
01:30:21,416 --> 01:30:25,375
her work has become more universai.
1106
01:30:31,893 --> 01:30:33,986
[ Louise`s Voice ]
The purpose ofthe pieces,
1107
01:30:34,095 --> 01:30:37,553
whatever they are
and whatever date they are,
1108
01:30:37,665 --> 01:30:39,963
is to ex,press emotions.
1109
01:30:41,269 --> 01:30:43,464
Emotions for me
are very bothersome...
1110
01:30:43,571 --> 01:30:46,665
because they are compieteiy
inappropriate.
1111
01:30:46,774 --> 01:30:50,870
My emotions are inappropriate
to my size.
1112
01:30:50,978 --> 01:30:54,004
My emotions are my demons.
1113
01:30:54,115 --> 01:30:58,279
I t is not the emotions themselves,
it is the intensity of the emotions...
1114
01:30:58,386 --> 01:31:01,412
are much too much
for me to handle.
1115
01:31:01,522 --> 01:31:05,288
And that is why I transfer them,
1116
01:31:05,393 --> 01:31:09,227
I transfer the energy into sculpture.
1117
01:31:09,330 --> 01:31:12,265
This applies to everything I do.
1118
01:31:12,366 --> 01:31:15,802
It has nothing to do
with the craft.
1119
01:31:15,903 --> 01:31:18,394
It has nothing to do
with the skills.
1120
01:31:18,506 --> 01:31:23,170
It has nothing to do
with the how-to manage materials.
1121
01:31:23,277 --> 01:31:27,509
Materials are only materials,
nothing more.
1122
01:31:27,615 --> 01:31:31,176
The materials are not
the subject ofthe artist.
1123
01:31:31,285 --> 01:31:34,379
The subject ofthe artist
is emotions...
1124
01:31:34,489 --> 01:31:38,687
and, uh- and ideas, both.
1125
01:31:44,465 --> 01:31:48,868
[Beiis Peaiing]
1126
01:31:59,413 --> 01:32:02,439
[ Women, computerized Voices ]
So hoid me, Mom
1127
01:32:06,053 --> 01:32:10,513
Inyouriong arms
1128
01:32:13,794 --> 01:32:16,763
So hoid me, Mom
1129
01:32:20,501 --> 01:32:23,937
Inyouriong arms
1130
01:32:27,775 --> 01:32:31,211
Inyour automatic arms
1131
01:32:36,517 --> 01:32:39,315
Your eiectronic arms
1132
01:32:40,354 --> 01:32:43,221
In your arms
1133
01:32:47,495 --> 01:32:50,726
So hoid me, Mom
1134
01:32:52,600 --> 01:32:56,092
In your iong arms
1135
01:33:00,374 --> 01:33:04,003
Yourpetrochemicai arms
1136
01:33:07,114 --> 01:33:09,742
Your miiitary arms
1137
01:33:14,989 --> 01:33:17,890
In your eiectronic arms
1138
01:33:29,537 --> 01:33:32,165
[ Louise ]
So, iet us have a-
1139
01:33:32,273 --> 01:33:34,639
Let`s have a iittie champagne.
1140
01:33:34,742 --> 01:33:37,267
We don`t deserve it,
but we can stiii have it.
[ Peopie Laughing ]
1141
01:33:44,719 --> 01:33:47,688
[ Louise Singing In French ]
1142
01:33:50,191 --> 01:33:52,591
[ continues Singing In French ]
1143
01:34:14,915 --> 01:34:17,611
[ continues Singing In French ]
1144
01:34:22,623 --> 01:34:24,591
[ Laughs ]
1145
01:34:27,294 --> 01:34:29,922
[ continues Singing In French ]
1146
01:34:35,369 --> 01:34:38,338
[Amei ]
Bravo! Bravo!
1147
01:34:38,439 --> 01:34:41,203
You don`t understand
a word of it, no?.
I didn`t, but it sounded great.
1148
01:34:41,308 --> 01:34:44,971
It is the, ""Oh-ho, you are so great!``
1149
01:34:45,079 --> 01:34:48,981
You know, it`s something
you would tell your husband.
Oh-ho! Oh-ho!
1150
01:34:49,083 --> 01:34:51,779
[ continues Singing In French ]
1151
01:34:51,886 --> 01:34:54,753
[Amei]
Whose music is that?
Mine!
1152
01:34:56,290 --> 01:34:59,088
That`s the only music I ever-
1153
01:35:01,028 --> 01:35:04,191
That`s it.
It`s not bad.
1154
01:35:04,298 --> 01:35:06,266
[ Laughs ]
1155
01:35:08,035 --> 01:35:11,334
[ continues Singing In French ]
1156
01:35:45,573 --> 01:35:48,974
[ continues Singing In French ]
1157
01:36:12,566 --> 01:36:17,333
[ continues Singing In French ]
1158
01:36:20,241 --> 01:36:22,971
[ Whistiing ]
1159
01:36:39,527 --> 01:36:42,690
[ continues Singing In French ]
1160
01:37:04,919 --> 01:37:06,887
[ Fades ]
97615
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