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[upbeat music plays]
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00:00:15,102 --> 00:00:20,107
[suspenseful music plays]
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00:00:23,327 --> 00:00:27,375
[suspenseful music plays]
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00:00:35,687 --> 00:00:38,908
[Matt Ross-Spang] America is
a relatively new country.
5
00:00:39,996 --> 00:00:42,651
We don't have like
old Templar Knight churches.
6
00:00:43,304 --> 00:00:45,001
To me, that's the old
recording studios.
7
00:00:45,045 --> 00:00:47,221
Those are kind of our temples,
our castles.
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00:00:48,265 --> 00:00:50,137
[Mark]
A traditional studio
that's properly put together
9
00:00:50,180 --> 00:00:53,009
could be a magical place,
we call them "temples of sound".
10
00:00:53,053 --> 00:00:56,099
The first time I walked into
a recording studio I knew
that's where I wanted to be.
11
00:00:56,708 --> 00:00:58,754
[Steven]
It's really about an
environment, uh,
12
00:00:58,797 --> 00:01:01,626
that was specifically created
for recording.
13
00:01:01,670 --> 00:01:04,107
So it's not in someone's house
or basement,
14
00:01:04,150 --> 00:01:06,936
it's a specific place
just for the process
of making music.
15
00:01:06,979 --> 00:01:09,852
[Marc] The traditional recording
studio has just got to be
an environment
16
00:01:09,895 --> 00:01:15,814
that fosters creativity and
gives everyone an opportunity
to make something magical.
17
00:01:16,859 --> 00:01:21,864
[rock music playing]
18
00:02:06,126 --> 00:02:07,736
[music stops playing]
19
00:02:10,042 --> 00:02:13,045
When I was growing up the bands,
the only dream we had was we
gotta go get in the studio.
20
00:02:13,089 --> 00:02:15,787
When bands do finally make
that decision that they--
21
00:02:15,831 --> 00:02:18,007
"You know what, let's take our
game up a little bit"
22
00:02:18,050 --> 00:02:20,401
most of the time they think
about going into a studio.
23
00:02:20,444 --> 00:02:22,533
If you wanted to do a
multi-track production,
24
00:02:22,577 --> 00:02:24,796
you kind of had to go someplace
25
00:02:25,319 --> 00:02:28,931
that had a pretty fair amount of
relatively expensive gear,
26
00:02:28,974 --> 00:02:33,588
and there weren't a lot of
people with experience in
operating that gear,
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00:02:33,631 --> 00:02:35,111
and getting stuff done that way.
28
00:02:35,155 --> 00:02:39,680
So you automatically,
by engaging that process,
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00:02:39,724 --> 00:02:42,814
you brought yourself
into a kind of a certain level
of participation.
30
00:02:42,858 --> 00:02:44,947
You know, you just want to get
out of your environment
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00:02:44,990 --> 00:02:49,386
and go to this new place
where the entire focus is about
creating this art.
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00:02:49,430 --> 00:02:53,260
You know, it's about
the environment,
and the character, the vibe,
33
00:02:53,303 --> 00:02:56,611
and the accommodations,
and the service,
so that you get your job done.
34
00:02:56,654 --> 00:03:00,310
And of course, the equipment
should all be pristine and
everything should be there,
35
00:03:00,354 --> 00:03:03,618
so you can, you know,
create your art in the most
respectful fashion.
36
00:03:03,661 --> 00:03:07,012
The benefit
of the recording studio has
always been the kind of temple,
37
00:03:07,056 --> 00:03:10,712
the safe space for an artist
to go, you know,
for musicians to go.
38
00:03:10,755 --> 00:03:14,368
I think it helps when they're
well equipped, regardless of,
39
00:03:14,411 --> 00:03:17,501
uh, how elaborate the design
might be.
40
00:03:17,545 --> 00:03:22,376
I think it helps to have
instruments and equipment
that's available to musicians.
41
00:03:22,419 --> 00:03:25,640
They're artists that don't have
access to those things usually,
you know.
42
00:03:25,683 --> 00:03:28,817
They for instance, maybe
they've always been using a
synthesizer for a piano patch
43
00:03:28,860 --> 00:03:31,211
or an organ patch.
44
00:03:31,254 --> 00:03:34,214
To some degree there's a real
experience when they sit behind
a real piano, you know.
45
00:03:34,257 --> 00:03:37,347
Different things happen,
accidents happen.
46
00:03:39,043 --> 00:03:45,442
Try and really make the
technical aspect work in
support of the musical aspect.
47
00:03:45,486 --> 00:03:47,923
If you have ideas
or if you're getting creative,
48
00:03:47,966 --> 00:03:51,535
you don't wanna wait to get into
the creative process.
49
00:03:51,579 --> 00:03:53,537
You wanna say
that "I wanna be
able to do this"
50
00:03:53,581 --> 00:03:56,279
and a good engineer will have
you ready to do that quickly.
51
00:03:56,323 --> 00:03:59,369
You know, we worked in these
amazing facilities.
52
00:03:59,413 --> 00:04:01,328
We could have anything
we wanted.
53
00:04:01,371 --> 00:04:04,069
We had all the best studios,
we had all the best gear,
54
00:04:04,113 --> 00:04:07,334
the best musicians, the best
engineers, the best producers,
the best writers,
55
00:04:07,377 --> 00:04:09,466
everyone who
is at the top of their game.
56
00:04:09,510 --> 00:04:13,165
[rock music playing]
57
00:04:13,209 --> 00:04:16,255
The acoustics that you're
recording in make
a pretty big imprint
58
00:04:16,298 --> 00:04:18,345
on the recording
that you make.
59
00:04:18,387 --> 00:04:21,216
The room accentuates
the music you put in there.
60
00:04:21,261 --> 00:04:22,740
[Richard]
I love how they sound.
61
00:04:22,784 --> 00:04:25,917
I mean how acoustically
it's just peaceful
62
00:04:25,961 --> 00:04:29,878
and somehow I find
that very focusing.
63
00:04:29,921 --> 00:04:33,011
[Michael] Well-designed studios,
well-designed control rooms,
64
00:04:33,055 --> 00:04:38,495
and well-designed, uh,
isolation rooms are invaluable.
65
00:04:38,539 --> 00:04:44,980
There's no replacing a sound
quality that you can get, the
space factor is enormous.
66
00:04:45,894 --> 00:04:50,028
Hospital-grade power,
and all the floating floors,
and custom hanging ceiling,
67
00:04:50,072 --> 00:04:53,293
and just doing everything like
acoustically correct,
68
00:04:53,858 --> 00:04:55,773
and the lighting, changing the
feel if you change the color.
69
00:04:55,817 --> 00:04:58,385
Like there's a it's
creative environment,
70
00:04:58,428 --> 00:05:00,343
it's a fun environment,
people are comfortable.
71
00:05:00,387 --> 00:05:03,303
Just wanna feel creative and
we hear all the time people say,
72
00:05:03,346 --> 00:05:06,001
"I never worked
so creatively so fast.
73
00:05:06,044 --> 00:05:09,613
I just felt as in the space
and it's just it's neat
74
00:05:09,657 --> 00:05:11,920
and you just feel creative
and you just kinda get
into your work."
75
00:05:11,963 --> 00:05:17,795
I love being in studios.
I love it. I've always loved it
since I was a kid.
76
00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,233
It always seemed like this
incredibly cool laboratory,
you know.
77
00:05:21,277 --> 00:05:24,802
And I love that environment.
78
00:05:24,846 --> 00:05:27,544
[Matt Sawicki] You can come here
and be as loud as you want.
79
00:05:27,588 --> 00:05:29,938
Nobody will come and tell
you not to be.
80
00:05:29,981 --> 00:05:33,724
Being able to check out
on reality of the world, and be
able to just be in this space,
81
00:05:33,768 --> 00:05:35,509
and doing your own thing,
and not have to worry about
82
00:05:35,552 --> 00:05:38,599
what else is happening
is like very powerful.
83
00:05:38,642 --> 00:05:43,386
[rock music playing]
84
00:05:44,387 --> 00:05:50,654
People don't often think about
the building facility really
being part of a tool.
85
00:05:51,220 --> 00:05:54,354
They think about it
when they're in their basement
86
00:05:54,397 --> 00:05:56,921
and the heater kicks on
in the middle of the take,
87
00:05:56,965 --> 00:06:03,667
and they think about it when the
train goes by, or they think
about it when it starts raining,
88
00:06:04,407 --> 00:06:09,107
but when you're in a building
like this,
89
00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,547
uh, those things
aren't problems.
90
00:06:13,590 --> 00:06:20,292
[Barry] The studio in themselves
have the expertise and history
behind them to,
91
00:06:21,293 --> 00:06:24,340
I think, improve upon
what the general public can do.
92
00:06:24,384 --> 00:06:28,562
I make it a point, with almost
every record that I make,
93
00:06:29,345 --> 00:06:35,830
to include some aspect of the
recording in a,
"real recording studio".
94
00:06:35,873 --> 00:06:37,788
It's important.
95
00:06:37,832 --> 00:06:40,095
You know, you go to the right
place, it's not gonna get
worse, you know.
96
00:06:40,138 --> 00:06:42,880
It can only... You know,
there's only levels of winning.
97
00:06:42,924 --> 00:06:44,969
Just spend a little money on it.
98
00:06:45,013 --> 00:06:47,581
They see that,
and they experience that,
and they feel like music stars,
99
00:06:47,624 --> 00:06:49,844
and they should feel like music
stars, they deserve that,
100
00:06:49,887 --> 00:06:52,324
and I think it certainly doesn't
hurt their performance.
101
00:06:52,368 --> 00:06:56,198
This person is renting
a space, buying a space.
102
00:06:56,241 --> 00:06:57,808
They're buying more
and more equipment.
103
00:06:57,852 --> 00:07:00,811
They're putting in the effort
to make this a business.
104
00:07:00,855 --> 00:07:03,553
First of all, you have
to absolutely love what you do.
105
00:07:03,597 --> 00:07:06,469
You have to really love it.
It's not an easy business.
106
00:07:06,513 --> 00:07:09,037
I mean you're working very hard
for a very boutique industry.
107
00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,605
And even regardless of
a studio space, you know,
108
00:07:11,648 --> 00:07:15,913
the engineer is probably more
important than the room,
you know.
109
00:07:16,479 --> 00:07:20,570
It's always been the engineer,
and then the gear,
and then the room, to me.
110
00:07:20,614 --> 00:07:25,749
The mix of the really good
talented people that we have,
where we have the music,
111
00:07:25,793 --> 00:07:32,016
the ears, the understanding
of corporate communications,
the understanding of broadcast.
112
00:07:32,060 --> 00:07:36,499
I know my limitations
and I depend heavily
on the engineer.
113
00:07:36,543 --> 00:07:37,892
I trust their ears.
114
00:07:38,457 --> 00:07:40,895
I trust their instincts.
115
00:07:40,938 --> 00:07:44,507
Now, at the end of the day, I'm
producing the project and the
final call is obviously mine,
116
00:07:44,551 --> 00:07:48,250
but I love working
with engineers who are also
musicians,
117
00:07:48,293 --> 00:07:51,558
who know me and have
the kind of relationship with me
118
00:07:51,601 --> 00:07:53,777
where they want my music to be
the best it can be.
119
00:07:53,821 --> 00:07:55,562
I'm not a transaction to them.
120
00:07:55,605 --> 00:07:59,957
I think the three of us as
individuals are all smart enough
121
00:08:00,001 --> 00:08:02,177
to realize that we're not very
intelligent.
122
00:08:02,220 --> 00:08:03,700
[Kenny laughing]
123
00:08:03,744 --> 00:08:06,007
So we're better off just to like
listen to somebody
124
00:08:06,050 --> 00:08:07,530
that knows what the hell
they're talking about.
125
00:08:07,574 --> 00:08:10,141
Okay, at this point,
he's like the fourth member.
126
00:08:10,185 --> 00:08:13,101
Like he just really clicked
with us.
127
00:08:13,144 --> 00:08:14,885
He'll have an idea, we listen.
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00:08:14,929 --> 00:08:17,409
We're not, you know, like,
"No, that's stupid or whatever,"
129
00:08:17,453 --> 00:08:19,368
unless it's stupid,
which is very rare.
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00:08:19,411 --> 00:08:22,589
First of all, the energy in the
control room for me is special.
131
00:08:22,632 --> 00:08:24,765
I think that translates
for the artist.
132
00:08:24,808 --> 00:08:28,116
The artist has a little
audience, but a very loving
and supportive one.
133
00:08:28,159 --> 00:08:32,467
[Kristeen] Tony is a great vocal
coach. I've really never found
anybody else
134
00:08:32,511 --> 00:08:36,558
who makes me feel as
supported.
135
00:08:36,602 --> 00:08:40,389
Like he won't just say,
"Great vocal", you know,
like which--
136
00:08:40,432 --> 00:08:42,130
[laughs]
So many people do.
137
00:08:42,173 --> 00:08:46,177
Like he gives me very specific
feedback and I like that.
138
00:08:46,221 --> 00:08:49,659
The important aspect
of the recording process
is that you go somewhere
139
00:08:49,703 --> 00:08:53,794
that makes you feel creative
and you have people around you
to help you feel creative.
140
00:08:53,837 --> 00:08:55,622
I think a lot of people can
record themselves at home,
141
00:08:55,665 --> 00:08:58,494
but I know for me I need to
collaborate with people.
142
00:08:58,538 --> 00:09:03,151
And, you know, really when you
can, uh, devote your time
to just the one aspect,
143
00:09:03,847 --> 00:09:05,936
you can do it so much better
144
00:09:05,980 --> 00:09:08,417
than when you're trying to split
yourself between all these
different roles.
145
00:09:08,460 --> 00:09:11,942
I don't trust myself completely
just to do everything on my own.
146
00:09:11,986 --> 00:09:16,643
I don't know if I have enough
love to make an entire record
all by myself,
147
00:09:16,686 --> 00:09:21,517
but I know with twelve other
people, we could certainly get
up enough love and emotion.
148
00:09:21,561 --> 00:09:26,783
To invest that record and that's
what it is about being in a
studio, it's that process.
149
00:09:27,349 --> 00:09:29,830
One of the reasons why
I've been playing music
150
00:09:29,873 --> 00:09:32,746
and playing in bands
for as long as I has now
151
00:09:32,789 --> 00:09:38,055
is because I get to
have very close relationships
152
00:09:38,099 --> 00:09:41,450
where we have shared goals
and those relationships
153
00:09:41,493 --> 00:09:46,803
that I get through my band are
probably the most important
adult relationships that I have.
154
00:09:46,847 --> 00:09:53,897
But when I'm working with people
and they value the integrity of
the music as much as I do,
155
00:09:54,506 --> 00:09:58,946
then I can trust them, and this
is how I know they do, 'cause
they're not afraid to tell me,
156
00:09:59,686 --> 00:10:02,253
"No, dude. I wouldn't do that."
157
00:10:02,297 --> 00:10:04,952
[Steve] Having been in bands
and being a musician makes me
158
00:10:04,995 --> 00:10:07,476
sympathetic to the bands
that I'm working with.
159
00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:13,003
It also gives me a perspective
where I kind of understand
their problems, you know.
160
00:10:13,047 --> 00:10:19,749
And if there's a conflict
or if there's a some problem,
it's likely a problem
161
00:10:19,793 --> 00:10:23,057
that I've experienced firsthand
and so it makes me
sympathetic.
162
00:10:23,100 --> 00:10:26,800
And in some cases, I'll have an
insight of how to get through
a situation without,
163
00:10:26,843 --> 00:10:31,108
you know, ruffling anybody's
feathers or without causing
an additional suffering.
164
00:10:31,152 --> 00:10:34,155
[Vance] Everything for me
is about the sound.
165
00:10:34,198 --> 00:10:38,072
I will talk to guitar players
and guitar players who worked
with me would back me up.
166
00:10:38,115 --> 00:10:41,379
I will literally talk to them
about I need something
that goes
167
00:10:41,423 --> 00:10:44,034
[mimicking guitar sounds]
168
00:10:44,078 --> 00:10:46,297
You know, and they'll
go, "Oh, like, uh."
169
00:10:46,341 --> 00:10:50,867
I think there's a sense of
play with me in the studio
and there's a sense of, uh,
170
00:10:50,911 --> 00:10:57,439
exploration and curiosity, uh,
which hopefully they find fun
and, uh, and useful.
171
00:10:57,482 --> 00:11:00,224
I'm gonna be able to help you
achieve your vision,
172
00:11:00,268 --> 00:11:02,792
and you're gonna be happy with
your product,
and you're gonna run out,
173
00:11:02,836 --> 00:11:04,751
and you're gonna go
wanna sell your product.
174
00:11:04,794 --> 00:11:09,494
Part of our job is to give it
longevity and depth,
175
00:11:09,538 --> 00:11:13,847
putting things that you
know will be discovered,
not on the fifth listen,
176
00:11:13,890 --> 00:11:16,893
not on the tenth listen,
but maybe on the fifteenth
listen,
177
00:11:16,937 --> 00:11:19,983
because there's nothing better
for me than when someone says,
178
00:11:20,027 --> 00:11:23,160
"Steve, what's that little sound
that's on that song?"
179
00:11:23,204 --> 00:11:27,425
and you go, "Now,
for you to know
that little sound
180
00:11:27,469 --> 00:11:30,907
means you've heard that song
fifteen, twenty times
181
00:11:30,951 --> 00:11:33,736
and if you've heard that song
fifteen or twenty times,
182
00:11:33,780 --> 00:11:35,477
it means that it means
something to you."
183
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,522
I think it's important
184
00:11:37,566 --> 00:11:42,832
to find people, whether it's
engineers or mastering people
or whoever,
185
00:11:43,311 --> 00:11:49,143
mixers, that, you know,
inevitably can have a stake
in what it is you do.
186
00:11:49,709 --> 00:11:53,495
I've always, always
enjoyed being in a big studio.
187
00:11:53,538 --> 00:11:57,281
Um, it feels better, it sounds
better, all that stuff is great.
188
00:11:57,325 --> 00:11:58,979
But there's limitations there.
189
00:12:03,113 --> 00:12:06,856
There was only a limited
selection of professional
audio gear
190
00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:11,687
that was available in the '50s
and '60s, and Technisonic
had all of it.
191
00:12:11,731 --> 00:12:16,823
It had the big microphones,
the instruments, the reverb
chambers, the EMT 140s,
192
00:12:16,866 --> 00:12:23,655
and Ampex tape recorders,
and Mr. Harrison was always keen
on getting the latest thing.
193
00:12:23,699 --> 00:12:26,441
So we had access
to virtually everything,
194
00:12:26,484 --> 00:12:31,098
but it was a concrete floor,
the Transite walls.
195
00:12:31,141 --> 00:12:33,100
And you're familiar
with that material,
196
00:12:33,143 --> 00:12:36,538
it's a kind of a hard asbestos
like material with holes
drilled in it.
197
00:12:36,581 --> 00:12:38,975
So it was very institutional.
198
00:12:39,019 --> 00:12:43,632
We had big incandescent lights
in the control room, and I spoke
to Geoff Emerick about this,
199
00:12:43,675 --> 00:12:46,243
and he laughed, because
it's just like Abbey Road.
200
00:12:46,287 --> 00:12:48,942
But the fact is most
professional recording studios
201
00:12:48,985 --> 00:12:51,988
in that era were equipped
very similarly.
202
00:12:52,554 --> 00:12:56,079
[Doug] Working on Gravity Kills
stuff, it's funny, you know,
console,
203
00:12:56,123 --> 00:12:58,516
and all my outboard gear,
204
00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:02,782
samplers, and synthesizers,
and, you know, my Pro Tools rig,
and I would take it with me.
205
00:13:02,825 --> 00:13:04,696
Like if we went to go mix
down,
206
00:13:04,740 --> 00:13:08,178
I needed to stick it on a
truck and drive the whole
studio out.
207
00:13:08,222 --> 00:13:12,226
I needed to hit the play button,
and we needed to play everything
off of the keyboards,
208
00:13:12,269 --> 00:13:15,403
trigger everything MIDI-wise,
and then record it on the
12-inch tape.
209
00:13:15,446 --> 00:13:21,496
And now, literally that entire
studio is on my laptop.
210
00:13:22,453 --> 00:13:27,371
When we first started
recording, we were recording
on 4-track cassettes.
211
00:13:27,415 --> 00:13:30,113
Uh, when Pro Tools
really came online,
212
00:13:30,157 --> 00:13:34,248
when the people started
legitimately using it on major
label records, uh,
213
00:13:34,290 --> 00:13:38,818
it changed for us, 'cause it
allowed us to actually get
a record done quicker.
214
00:13:38,861 --> 00:13:42,604
[Bill] When I started all the
recording equipment
was custom-built.
215
00:13:42,647 --> 00:13:48,436
It was an 8-input, 2-bus,
4-track console.
216
00:13:48,915 --> 00:13:52,962
So each it was custom made
by Bob Bushnell, uh,
217
00:13:53,006 --> 00:13:55,747
using API components
218
00:13:55,790 --> 00:13:58,185
back when all the consoles
were handmade.
219
00:13:58,228 --> 00:14:01,318
There was no such thing as an
off-the-shelf mixing console.
220
00:14:01,362 --> 00:14:05,279
You would hire a company, uh,
to build the console for you.
221
00:14:05,322 --> 00:14:10,675
History-wise, one used to be
able to buy a 2-inch 24-track
in the '70s
222
00:14:10,719 --> 00:14:14,941
and a simple automated console
that was tape automated,
223
00:14:14,984 --> 00:14:21,121
and, uh, say about $120,000,
$140,000 in equipment
not the studio,
224
00:14:21,164 --> 00:14:23,732
and charge about 120 an hour.
225
00:14:24,951 --> 00:14:29,738
Now, we have much more invested
than that and we can't charge
120 an hour.
226
00:14:29,781 --> 00:14:32,262
So we have to be pretty clever.
227
00:14:32,306 --> 00:14:38,486
In the '90s
when software started getting
easy and available,
228
00:14:38,529 --> 00:14:44,057
and eventually by the end of the
'90s started getting cheap, uh,
everything changed drastically.
229
00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:49,410
Because then, uh,
all of the all of our clients
had their own software,
230
00:14:49,453 --> 00:14:51,673
and they had their own studios,
231
00:14:51,716 --> 00:14:55,807
even if it was just in a broom
closet in their production
house, in their office.
232
00:14:55,851 --> 00:15:01,509
Um, agencies that previously
had shied away from setting up
a studio,
233
00:15:01,552 --> 00:15:05,339
'cause it was quarter million
dollars to set up a studio,
now they're saying,
234
00:15:05,382 --> 00:15:07,776
"Really? So we can go out and
spend like 10 grand,
235
00:15:07,819 --> 00:15:12,172
and have a decent enough room
where we can do all of our demos
for our clients in house?"
236
00:15:12,215 --> 00:15:14,000
Uh, that just gutted the
business.
237
00:15:14,043 --> 00:15:17,003
The availability
of the software,
how inexpensive it was,
238
00:15:17,046 --> 00:15:19,048
it just gutted the business.
239
00:15:19,092 --> 00:15:23,444
Having, you know, the software
the software that you can
actually put it down,
240
00:15:23,487 --> 00:15:26,360
get it down, and get it the way
you sound, the way you want it
to sound,
241
00:15:26,403 --> 00:15:29,754
and the way you like it,
and then that could be
your album.
242
00:15:29,798 --> 00:15:35,412
Software is getting cheaper
and people are expecting to pay
low prices for software.
243
00:15:36,065 --> 00:15:39,851
So the days of spending, you
know, hundreds of dollars for
individual pieces of software,
244
00:15:39,895 --> 00:15:41,418
it really doesn't exist anymore.
245
00:15:41,462 --> 00:15:44,073
Now, I think as the industry's
changed to the extent
246
00:15:44,117 --> 00:15:46,249
that everybody has a little
recording device,
247
00:15:46,293 --> 00:15:50,036
it's not as good of an idea to
spend huge amounts of money.
248
00:15:50,079 --> 00:15:56,129
We have to figure out how to
deliver, uh, that extra quality
and still be reasonably priced.
249
00:15:56,172 --> 00:16:02,787
Quality of audio is has always
been driven by the technology,
250
00:16:03,484 --> 00:16:07,053
right back to the point where
drummers played very quietly,
251
00:16:07,618 --> 00:16:09,969
because there was no
amplification.
252
00:16:10,012 --> 00:16:13,842
And then all of a sudden,
you got electric guitars
and drummers played louder.
253
00:16:14,364 --> 00:16:18,978
So now, the art form
has always been led by
technology.
254
00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:24,984
You know, multi-track recording
led to the Beach Boys
and multi-layered harmonies.
255
00:16:25,549 --> 00:16:32,165
Studio design led to the
Bee Gees doing "Jive Talkin'"
and those tight records.
256
00:16:32,208 --> 00:16:36,082
[Bill] From roughly '75
to mid-'80s,
257
00:16:36,125 --> 00:16:39,868
it was really idealized
in a lot of people's minds.
258
00:16:40,303 --> 00:16:46,048
And those of us who were going
through it, didn't understand
that this would be the case.
259
00:16:46,092 --> 00:16:49,573
it's like when I was
in high school, a friend of mine
had a '68 Camaro.
260
00:16:49,617 --> 00:16:53,751
I mean, you know, who knew?
It was just a car.
261
00:16:53,795 --> 00:17:00,106
But now, people look back
on the whole patina of the
business in those days
262
00:17:00,628 --> 00:17:03,761
and attribute
a lot of it to the equipment.
263
00:17:03,805 --> 00:17:06,547
Partly, it was, because we were
always fighting the equipment,
264
00:17:06,589 --> 00:17:11,073
but it was a teamwork effort
with the musicians, and the
engineers, and the designers,
265
00:17:11,117 --> 00:17:15,730
and the business people trying
to recreate the moment
as best we possibly could.
266
00:17:15,772 --> 00:17:19,125
Nowadays, people just create
moments, uh, from scratch.
267
00:17:19,167 --> 00:17:22,301
This is not necessarily bad,
but it's a different
kind of thing.
268
00:17:23,128 --> 00:17:26,001
[Steve Lillywhite] I didn't
enter music to become a typist.
269
00:17:26,522 --> 00:17:29,787
That's so much of being a
producer now is being a typist,
270
00:17:30,397 --> 00:17:33,182
but you must always
look behind you.
271
00:17:33,878 --> 00:17:35,619
You can only learn
from the past.
272
00:17:35,663 --> 00:17:38,057
You can't learn from the future
because you don't know it yet.
273
00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:41,060
This has been this perfect
marriage of like lowering
budgets,
274
00:17:41,103 --> 00:17:45,020
but more efficient recording
techniques and technology.
275
00:17:45,064 --> 00:17:49,546
[Bill] When you see an ad
for a digital audio workstation,
276
00:17:49,590 --> 00:17:52,201
it's generally implying that you
don't need anybody,
277
00:17:52,245 --> 00:17:55,117
you just need our box,
and you can cut the hits.
278
00:17:55,161 --> 00:18:00,122
The challenge of keeping things
current is difficult, too,
279
00:18:00,166 --> 00:18:02,385
because the time
you get to the point that
280
00:18:02,429 --> 00:18:05,823
you barely pay something off you
gotta buy something new and, uh,
281
00:18:05,867 --> 00:18:09,958
the rate of change
is short in this industry.
282
00:18:10,001 --> 00:18:13,222
[Steve] You know, the technology
industry, which is what the
music business is now,
283
00:18:13,266 --> 00:18:15,877
it's technology industry,
you know, it's moving fast.
284
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:21,187
Some people embrace that and
some people are a little
bit hesitant to embrace it.
285
00:18:21,752 --> 00:18:24,668
Now, we are on the very
technological side of this
industry.
286
00:18:24,712 --> 00:18:27,845
You know, we're virtualizing
basically the whole entire
recording studio.
287
00:18:27,889 --> 00:18:30,805
Some people love that,
other people aren't quite used
to it yet.
288
00:18:30,848 --> 00:18:33,808
The change that's most affected
me as a record producer,
289
00:18:33,851 --> 00:18:38,117
for sure, is going from analog
to digital and I love that
change.
290
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:44,340
What I really love about it is
it enables me to do my day's
work quicker.
291
00:18:44,384 --> 00:18:47,691
The tools that we use are
to make it as inexpensive
and as fast as possible,
292
00:18:47,735 --> 00:18:51,695
the highest quality
with the fastest speed.
293
00:18:51,739 --> 00:18:58,267
[Bill] The middle-class studio
is the place that's most
endangered today,
294
00:18:58,311 --> 00:19:01,009
because of the pressure
from both sides.
295
00:19:01,052 --> 00:19:07,015
The latest, and greatest,
and most amazing technology
is prohibitively expensive,
296
00:19:07,058 --> 00:19:10,714
yet entry-level technology
is almost free.
297
00:19:10,758 --> 00:19:15,197
People are gonna have big
budgets and they go
to the big studio
298
00:19:15,241 --> 00:19:19,897
that still has that technology
and equipment or they'll just do
it themselves
299
00:19:19,941 --> 00:19:22,204
or have their nephew do it.
300
00:19:22,248 --> 00:19:25,729
[Gary] They call their bedroom
a recording studio and, uh,
I can't compete with them,
301
00:19:25,773 --> 00:19:29,124
because they're only charging
$15, $20 an hour.
302
00:19:29,168 --> 00:19:31,822
[Jason] It's just plug something
into a computer and I'm
a recording engineer now.
303
00:19:31,866 --> 00:19:33,520
And it's not.
304
00:19:33,563 --> 00:19:35,609
You're a recordist, you're
someone that is just recording.
305
00:19:35,652 --> 00:19:38,655
[Michael] People wanna have this
conversation about technology
and sound,
306
00:19:38,699 --> 00:19:42,746
which is a good conversation,
but the sort of I think
the other conversation
307
00:19:42,790 --> 00:19:47,534
is how a lot of younger record
makers today go about
making records.
308
00:19:47,577 --> 00:19:52,452
And it's not necessarily
in an informed
or an organized fashion.
309
00:19:52,495 --> 00:19:55,498
No, they're trying to make it
up, uh, figure it out
as to do it.
310
00:19:55,542 --> 00:19:57,108
And I think that's a problem.
311
00:19:57,152 --> 00:20:02,375
What I'd love to see
is people treat all audio
312
00:20:02,418 --> 00:20:05,726
the way it should be treated
instead of an afterthought.
313
00:20:06,292 --> 00:20:10,034
The amount of tracks that come
in that are distorted,
that are labeled improperly,
314
00:20:10,078 --> 00:20:14,474
that have bad editing done
that, you know,
that are just out of tune.
315
00:20:14,517 --> 00:20:16,084
Sing it again.
316
00:20:16,127 --> 00:20:18,173
We have a lot of people
coming up into this business
317
00:20:18,217 --> 00:20:22,917
who have never listened to music
other than, uh,
mp3s through ear buds.
318
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:28,270
And if that's all that somebody
has ever experienced, they don't
know how good music could sound.
319
00:20:28,314 --> 00:20:30,446
They don't understand
the difference.
320
00:20:30,490 --> 00:20:35,886
People who, uh, pay attention
to details make great
recordings on anything
321
00:20:36,583 --> 00:20:41,631
and that is so much
more important than
the technology itself.
322
00:20:42,328 --> 00:20:46,854
But that being said,
the technology has such
incredible potential.
323
00:20:47,463 --> 00:20:50,597
We live in a good
enough society.
324
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:57,081
Stuff that is recorded
in not in a studio
is often good enough.
325
00:20:57,691 --> 00:21:02,652
When it got to people just
listening to music on the stereo
speakers on their laptop
326
00:21:02,696 --> 00:21:04,959
or just carrying around their
phones,
327
00:21:05,002 --> 00:21:08,310
you might as well have just gone
back to the AM transistor radio
back in the '60s.
328
00:21:08,354 --> 00:21:11,139
When I think of older people
and their connection to music,
329
00:21:11,182 --> 00:21:16,231
it was the experience of
listening to it and it could be
a very enveloping experience.
330
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:23,586
You know, there was a higher
preponderance of good sounding
systems, um, then there is now.
331
00:21:23,630 --> 00:21:27,503
I think it's interesting that
with all the progress and all
the technology that we have,
332
00:21:27,547 --> 00:21:31,942
most people are listening on
worse systems than they were
thirty, forty years ago.
333
00:21:31,986 --> 00:21:34,728
You don't hear horrible
audio anymore.
334
00:21:34,771 --> 00:21:37,861
The problem is you don't often
hear great audio anymore.
335
00:21:37,905 --> 00:21:41,300
The average is probably better
than it used to be.
336
00:21:41,343 --> 00:21:43,258
[Steve] I used to hate vinyl.
337
00:21:43,302 --> 00:21:47,697
For me, vinyl was the weak
link in the whole process.
338
00:21:47,741 --> 00:21:51,353
Ss would tear something
terrible on vinyl.
339
00:21:51,397 --> 00:21:55,705
So when CDs came in, I thought
this was the weak link fixed.
340
00:21:55,749 --> 00:22:00,144
But it's the mentality of
the people making the music
that is changing.
341
00:22:00,188 --> 00:22:04,888
You know, when you look at music
rather than listen to music,
it's going to be different.
342
00:22:10,807 --> 00:22:13,070
I loved all aspects
of the production,
343
00:22:13,114 --> 00:22:17,771
but I was particularly drawn
to the reproduction of a moment.
344
00:22:17,814 --> 00:22:23,820
I had watched records being made
where the performance happens,
345
00:22:24,299 --> 00:22:30,697
and the tape machine is there,
and the tape machine is your
witness to the performance.
346
00:22:31,175 --> 00:22:36,616
And you play it back, and that
performance, that moment lives.
347
00:22:36,659 --> 00:22:41,969
Because there's something
really great about the first
time a song comes together,
348
00:22:42,012 --> 00:22:46,408
when it all gels
and everything connects,
349
00:22:46,452 --> 00:22:49,846
and, you know, those
moments when that does happen,
350
00:22:49,890 --> 00:22:53,415
if you are lucky enough
to capture that to tape,
it's really great.
351
00:22:53,459 --> 00:22:55,983
There's not much I like
more given enough time
352
00:22:56,026 --> 00:22:59,813
And the right kind of gear
of getting a lot of it
on the floor
353
00:22:59,856 --> 00:23:05,645
and making the band sound
good on the floor, and doing
a big tracking project.
354
00:23:05,688 --> 00:23:08,648
It's the love of creating,
355
00:23:08,691 --> 00:23:13,174
whether it be spontaneously,
in a live situation,
356
00:23:13,217 --> 00:23:15,263
which is unparalleled.
357
00:23:15,306 --> 00:23:20,964
What you experience on stage
in front of people,
you're a lightning rod,
358
00:23:21,008 --> 00:23:25,229
and you're just receiving,
and it's the music
is flowing through you.
359
00:23:25,273 --> 00:23:29,582
In the studio,
when you're creating something,
360
00:23:29,625 --> 00:23:32,280
and there are those moments
when you're so in it,
361
00:23:32,323 --> 00:23:35,588
and that happens,
it's the same lightning rod.
362
00:23:35,631 --> 00:23:39,940
And then you sit back
and you look at what
you've created. That's magic.
363
00:23:39,983 --> 00:23:46,860
I think you've got like two
things going and ultimately
it's best if they come to a peak
364
00:23:46,903 --> 00:23:49,123
and if you can record it
at the peak.
365
00:23:49,166 --> 00:23:52,779
You still have the passion
and you have performed it
enough times
366
00:23:52,822 --> 00:23:54,998
to where you're nailing it.
367
00:23:55,042 --> 00:23:57,436
The best records are gonna be
done when you don't realize
you're making them.
368
00:24:00,221 --> 00:24:02,615
[rock music playing]
369
00:24:02,658 --> 00:24:07,533
Artists, when they're thinking
about the recording, sometimes
take their eye off their art.
370
00:24:07,576 --> 00:24:10,536
You don't have a song,
you don't have shit.
371
00:24:10,579 --> 00:24:13,495
So you couldn't just show up
with a room full of cats,
372
00:24:13,539 --> 00:24:15,628
you know, on someone's dime
373
00:24:15,671 --> 00:24:20,284
and wing some shit
that you were gonna compose
on the fly in the studio.
374
00:24:21,024 --> 00:24:24,332
Whereas, unfortunately, today
that's exactly what happens.
375
00:24:24,375 --> 00:24:27,291
People come to me and say,
"Hey, can you mix this record
and make it sound like that?"
376
00:24:27,335 --> 00:24:30,077
No, I can't.
I can mix the record,
it's gonna sound great,
377
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:33,515
but the only way it can sound
like that is if we get that
artist in that studio,
378
00:24:33,559 --> 00:24:36,431
and those songs,
and all of that stuff,
and the time of day we record
379
00:24:36,475 --> 00:24:38,694
like all those things make that
record sound the way
that it sounds.
380
00:24:38,738 --> 00:24:44,700
In the old days, hit records
a lot of times used to align
with well-made records.
381
00:24:44,744 --> 00:24:46,528
[Carl] It really just comes
down to patience.
382
00:24:46,572 --> 00:24:48,878
Making sure
it's right from square one.
383
00:24:48,922 --> 00:24:51,011
You know, I tell a lot of
the guys that I work with,
384
00:24:51,054 --> 00:24:52,752
especially assistants,
something like that.
385
00:24:52,795 --> 00:24:54,971
Like "We don't put our name
on it till the quality
is in there."
386
00:24:55,015 --> 00:24:56,538
And that's what
we have to live by.
387
00:24:58,105 --> 00:25:03,545
[Danny] Performance is way more
important than sound quality.
388
00:25:03,589 --> 00:25:07,418
[Matt Sawicki] I like hearing
emotion come out of something.
389
00:25:07,462 --> 00:25:12,815
[Carl] I can tune you,
I can time you, I can make you
sound like Katy Perry,
390
00:25:12,859 --> 00:25:16,471
I can do all of those things,
but I can't give emotion.
391
00:25:16,515 --> 00:25:20,519
And that's the one thing
that artists still need to be
able to find.
392
00:25:20,562 --> 00:25:23,609
You know, it's the music
business, I wanna be
entertained.
393
00:25:24,174 --> 00:25:28,004
[Steve] Most important part
about making a record
absolutely is, uh,
394
00:25:28,048 --> 00:25:30,703
not the bass drum sound,
it's nothing like that.
395
00:25:30,746 --> 00:25:36,883
It's making the song speak
to you, and by definition,
to make a song speak to someone,
396
00:25:36,926 --> 00:25:38,928
it is through the vocal.
397
00:25:38,972 --> 00:25:43,280
Just 'cause we have the tools
to fix, to edit, to tune,
to manipulate,
398
00:25:43,324 --> 00:25:45,892
you know,
isn't it great just to sing?
399
00:25:45,935 --> 00:25:49,504
Listen to those
old Motown Records,
listen to Aretha Franklin,
400
00:25:49,548 --> 00:25:53,464
listen to some of those great
Atlantic Records
that Tommy Dowd recorded,
401
00:25:53,508 --> 00:25:55,815
and I think we're losing
that in our musicality.
402
00:25:55,858 --> 00:25:57,773
People don't play very well,
because they don't have to.
403
00:25:57,817 --> 00:25:59,906
Somebody will play the drums
pretty shitty
404
00:25:59,949 --> 00:26:02,604
and then they'll just expect
I'm gonna cut it together
and make it better.
405
00:26:03,431 --> 00:26:07,174
Or, uh, "Oh, cool,
I played this 4-bar section,
uh, played it really well,
406
00:26:07,217 --> 00:26:10,003
I'm gonna quantize that
and then I'm just gonna loop it
everywhere."
407
00:26:10,046 --> 00:26:12,571
Okay, well. I mean that is a way
to make records,
408
00:26:13,267 --> 00:26:17,401
but that's not I mean
it's a way to make records.
409
00:26:17,445 --> 00:26:19,839
The work is not as satisfying
these days
410
00:26:19,882 --> 00:26:23,886
to sit in front of your computer
by yourself and fix music.
411
00:26:23,930 --> 00:26:26,454
[Doug] Copying and pasting
for all the downsides of it,
412
00:26:26,497 --> 00:26:29,936
it saves people a lot of money
or tuning their vocal
but it's kind of like
413
00:26:29,979 --> 00:26:32,155
Close enough. Let's just.
414
00:26:32,199 --> 00:26:34,984
Right, moving on.
Moving on, moving on.
415
00:26:35,028 --> 00:26:38,031
Now, that hasn't helped
live performances at all.
416
00:26:38,074 --> 00:26:39,641
People go to shows all the time.
417
00:26:39,685 --> 00:26:42,035
And they come back, I'm like,
"How were they?"
418
00:26:42,078 --> 00:26:44,341
and they're like, "They had
no business being on stage."
Like, "It was really terrible."
419
00:26:44,385 --> 00:26:45,995
Like, "It was bad.
These guys cannot play."
420
00:26:46,039 --> 00:26:47,954
And you listen to the record
and you're like and it's like,
421
00:26:47,997 --> 00:26:50,739
"I know", 'cause
there's a lot of trickery.
422
00:26:50,783 --> 00:26:54,700
More and more people are
afraid of committing to things,
because they don't have to.
423
00:26:54,743 --> 00:26:57,441
When I started out,
you wanted this guitar tone,
424
00:26:57,485 --> 00:27:01,141
that's the guitar tone
you were gonna end up with
at the end of the day.
425
00:27:01,184 --> 00:27:05,014
Now, people will record the
direct signal from the guitar,
426
00:27:05,058 --> 00:27:07,408
and they'll put an amplifier
plug-in on it,
427
00:27:07,451 --> 00:27:10,150
and they may change it as
they're listening throughout
428
00:27:10,193 --> 00:27:13,457
or they may just send me
the DI'd guitars.
429
00:27:13,501 --> 00:27:16,896
Recorded this great bass
player once, T-Bone Wolk.
430
00:27:16,939 --> 00:27:19,681
Played Saturday Night Live
for years, he played with
Hall & Oates.
431
00:27:19,725 --> 00:27:21,857
Plays the first verse in the
chorus and he stops, he goes,
432
00:27:21,901 --> 00:27:24,730
"Okay, fly it to the second
and third." Bullshit.
433
00:27:25,208 --> 00:27:27,428
I go, "You're T-Bone Wolk."
434
00:27:27,471 --> 00:27:29,691
Like, "You don't get it, you're
like the greatest bass player
I've ever met in my life.
435
00:27:29,735 --> 00:27:32,433
Can't you just play it?
'Cause I know you're gonna play
something cool."
436
00:27:32,476 --> 00:27:36,306
"Yeah, alright, Carl."
Punch in and record,
and he just kills it.
437
00:27:36,350 --> 00:27:38,613
And it that's the stuff
that I miss.
438
00:27:38,657 --> 00:27:40,354
I miss the musicality
throughout a song.
439
00:27:40,397 --> 00:27:44,837
There's always been boy bands,
there's always been pop stars,
440
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,231
you know, manufactured music,
and that's not gonna change.
441
00:27:48,275 --> 00:27:51,321
The difference is, is now
you don't have any filters.
442
00:27:51,365 --> 00:27:55,543
You know, well, before when
I was a kid, record companies
were filters.
443
00:27:55,586 --> 00:28:01,854
They separated
the wheat, you know,
and it's not nearly as, uh,
444
00:28:01,897 --> 00:28:03,682
as easy as it used to be
I think.
445
00:28:03,725 --> 00:28:07,076
But we used to have to save up
money, go out, and buy records,
446
00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:12,342
and listen to 'em over and over
until we were absolutely sure
we didn't like it.
447
00:28:12,386 --> 00:28:14,736
Whereas now,
it's first listen...
448
00:28:14,780 --> 00:28:16,216
I mean
think of all the bands
449
00:28:16,259 --> 00:28:19,262
that you if you listen
to one time
450
00:28:19,306 --> 00:28:23,353
Would you have ever listened
to Bob Dylan more than once
if you only, you know,
451
00:28:23,397 --> 00:28:26,269
if it if you didn't pay
for it?
452
00:28:28,794 --> 00:28:32,406
The devaluation of the product
that we create
453
00:28:32,449 --> 00:28:35,191
has sort of affected
all aspects of the business.
454
00:28:35,888 --> 00:28:42,155
People just don't see
the effort and the expense
455
00:28:42,198 --> 00:28:45,027
that goes into creating
these pieces of art.
456
00:28:45,071 --> 00:28:47,421
One thing I learned
over the years,
457
00:28:47,464 --> 00:28:50,729
recording so many
different people,
is how talented people are.
458
00:28:50,772 --> 00:28:52,687
[Richard] So once you get
to a certain level,
459
00:28:52,731 --> 00:28:55,864
it's this magnetic force
that draws people together
460
00:28:55,908 --> 00:28:59,650
and that's why it's a small
incestuous business.
461
00:28:59,694 --> 00:29:01,870
[Danny]
The players are so damn good.
462
00:29:01,914 --> 00:29:05,787
I watched an 18-year-old
drummer clip just yesterday
that blew my mind.
463
00:29:05,831 --> 00:29:08,877
And the way that that kid was
playing wasn't even taught
464
00:29:08,921 --> 00:29:12,402
or believed to be possible
when I was growing up.
465
00:29:12,446 --> 00:29:14,622
Kids are learning how to play.
466
00:29:14,665 --> 00:29:20,802
Now, learning how to play
something interesting that
someone wants to listen to
467
00:29:20,846 --> 00:29:25,067
not just once but a couple of
times, that's the challenge.
468
00:29:25,111 --> 00:29:28,592
"If I sound like Beyoncé,
if I sound like Justin Bieber,
469
00:29:28,636 --> 00:29:31,813
am I really as good
as they are?"
470
00:29:31,857 --> 00:29:35,904
And be honest with yourself.
Compare your music
with theirs and go,
471
00:29:35,948 --> 00:29:41,083
"No, it's not good enough.
I'm gonna keep working until I
get something that is as good."
472
00:29:45,348 --> 00:29:48,743
Over the past couple of
years, it's just like, uh,
things have slowed down,
473
00:29:48,787 --> 00:29:50,701
and slowed down,
and slowed down.
474
00:29:50,745 --> 00:29:52,486
[Steve] Well, first of all,
most of them, uh,
have really closed down,
475
00:29:52,529 --> 00:29:54,836
but the others that are still
around, they're struggling.
476
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,362
Has been tricky for sure,
because right when we opened up
the studio was in 2006.
477
00:30:00,276 --> 00:30:03,410
And if we remember,
back then nobody had any money
to do anything.
478
00:30:03,453 --> 00:30:08,719
And you just don't see
the people like we used to see
and activity going on.
479
00:30:08,763 --> 00:30:12,506
I mean we had three
control rooms and five studios,
480
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:17,076
and days when they were
all busy, and people
coming and going.
481
00:30:17,119 --> 00:30:21,384
[Gary] New York, you know,
rent, insurance, all of that,
through the roof.
482
00:30:21,428 --> 00:30:25,998
The building that we bought,
I wanna say we bought it
for $240,000
483
00:30:26,041 --> 00:30:30,611
and to buy a similar building
now would be an investment
of well over a million dollars.
484
00:30:30,654 --> 00:30:33,657
Big studios close
because they're worth more
as a home
485
00:30:33,701 --> 00:30:35,268
than they are as a studio
or something like that.
486
00:30:37,052 --> 00:30:38,793
The land value is worth
a it could be a Starbucks
or something.
487
00:30:38,837 --> 00:30:43,363
[Gary]
Trying to sustain a large space
uh, with expensive equipment
488
00:30:43,406 --> 00:30:45,713
uh, is just not realistic.
489
00:30:45,756 --> 00:30:49,586
I don't think New York
really has a recording studio
culture anymore,
490
00:30:49,630 --> 00:30:51,545
because of the
cost of real estate.
491
00:30:51,588 --> 00:30:55,897
And in London other
than Abbey Road
and a couple of other places,
492
00:30:55,941 --> 00:30:58,160
there really isn't anything.
493
00:30:58,204 --> 00:31:01,555
A number of large studios
have closed, because there is
just less work in large studios.
494
00:31:01,598 --> 00:31:06,473
Can you even imagine in this day
and age if somebody just wants
to do a song demo,
495
00:31:06,516 --> 00:31:10,477
of them coming into a studio,
and paying a big studio
to do that?
496
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:11,913
People would not
do that anymore.
497
00:31:11,957 --> 00:31:13,915
That, uh... They have
software at home.
498
00:31:13,959 --> 00:31:16,875
[Steve] So many of the studios
that I even worked at as a kid
499
00:31:16,918 --> 00:31:19,007
or interned at,
they're all gone.
500
00:31:19,051 --> 00:31:21,705
The business has to change
just like any business would
when technology strikes.
501
00:31:21,749 --> 00:31:28,277
So now, it's gotta be more about
the experience, uh, the service,
the atmosphere, the vibe,
502
00:31:28,321 --> 00:31:30,845
getting away and coming
to this creative place,
503
00:31:30,889 --> 00:31:33,326
that's really what a commercial
studio has to sell
themselves on.
504
00:31:33,369 --> 00:31:36,372
Budgets have been slashed,
so we have to adjust our prices.
505
00:31:36,416 --> 00:31:39,723
Man, when I started off,
I remember what the studio rate
at Ardent,
506
00:31:39,767 --> 00:31:45,033
Studio A was 1,850 a day,
plus engineer, plus tape.
507
00:31:45,077 --> 00:31:47,296
Nobody batted an eye.
508
00:31:47,340 --> 00:31:52,562
Because the economy was
really in the tank, studio rates
just kind of evened out.
509
00:31:52,606 --> 00:31:58,786
Everybody's got their rates down
as low as they dare go
to be competitive.
510
00:31:58,829 --> 00:32:03,443
It does feel like at times
there's a little bit of a race
to the bottom in terms of rates.
511
00:32:03,486 --> 00:32:06,576
Up to a certain level bands
weren't going to studios.
512
00:32:06,620 --> 00:32:10,711
Record labels would sign
a group or an act or something
like that and they would say,
513
00:32:10,754 --> 00:32:12,931
"We're not sending you anywhere.
You're from Rochester.
514
00:32:12,974 --> 00:32:16,586
Like what's the best studio in
Rochester? Okay, we'll
bring the producer to you.
515
00:32:16,630 --> 00:32:18,588
Just... You know, we don't have
to pay for gas, food, lodging."
516
00:32:18,632 --> 00:32:21,026
[calm music playing]
517
00:32:21,069 --> 00:32:26,248
There are so many studios now
where guys are charging what?
50, 60 bucks an hour.
518
00:32:26,292 --> 00:32:30,252
That's for the studio, for the
personnel, for everything, you
get 60 bucks an hour, right?
519
00:32:30,296 --> 00:32:35,866
That's what studios were
getting in 1985.
So in 30 years
520
00:32:35,910 --> 00:32:37,999
[scoffs]
521
00:32:38,043 --> 00:32:43,744
In 30 years, studios
and engineers are getting paid
exactly the same amount
522
00:32:43,787 --> 00:32:46,268
that they were getting paid
in 1985.
523
00:32:46,312 --> 00:32:50,620
Okay, you could say,
"Well, things are cheaper now,
so, you know."
524
00:32:50,664 --> 00:32:53,928
Well, I'm sorry but, uh,
real estate isn't cheaper,
525
00:32:53,972 --> 00:32:55,799
hiring a contractor
is not cheaper.
526
00:32:56,496 --> 00:33:00,630
Things are cheaper in some ways,
but microphones
still cost money,
527
00:33:00,674 --> 00:33:04,330
mic pres still costs a lot of
money, compressors still cost
a lot of money,
528
00:33:04,373 --> 00:33:06,723
room build-outs
still cost a lot of money.
529
00:33:06,767 --> 00:33:13,208
That does not change one salient
fact and that is the person
who's recording your album
530
00:33:13,252 --> 00:33:19,736
is making today exactly
the same amount of money
that I made in 1985.
531
00:33:19,780 --> 00:33:22,261
I don't know
that it's just this industry.
532
00:33:22,304 --> 00:33:29,007
I mean it seems to me that this
is a problem across the board.
533
00:33:29,050 --> 00:33:31,444
If you really look at wages
for the Americans,
534
00:33:31,487 --> 00:33:34,142
they have stagnated
over the past 30 years.
535
00:33:34,186 --> 00:33:37,928
Yet things are two to three
times more expensive.
536
00:33:37,972 --> 00:33:42,107
People, uh, are insured,
yet they can't pay their bills.
537
00:33:42,150 --> 00:33:46,067
The music business
is just a little microcosm
538
00:33:46,111 --> 00:33:50,811
of the fucked-upness of the
whole fucking system right now.
539
00:33:50,854 --> 00:33:56,773
And until we fix all of that,
540
00:33:56,817 --> 00:33:58,949
but in particular
in the music industry,
541
00:33:58,993 --> 00:34:02,083
people are gonna have
a very tough time making
a living in this business
542
00:34:02,127 --> 00:34:07,175
and very few people are gonna
find a path to retirement.
543
00:34:07,219 --> 00:34:12,702
The worst times were
hand-to-mouth, you know,
really dealing with, uh,
544
00:34:12,746 --> 00:34:15,400
trends that you, uh,
every small business knows.
545
00:34:15,444 --> 00:34:21,014
A big hurdle is just trying
not to worry about where
money's gonna come from
546
00:34:21,059 --> 00:34:23,974
and where the next session's
coming from, and I think the
only way of doing that is,
547
00:34:24,670 --> 00:34:27,587
you know, you get judged by your
last project that you do, um,
548
00:34:27,630 --> 00:34:32,244
and so concentrating on that
what you're doing that day
and doing it really well.
549
00:34:32,286 --> 00:34:37,335
It's a matter of adapting
to the smaller market.
550
00:34:38,206 --> 00:34:41,034
So that's big.
551
00:34:41,079 --> 00:34:47,650
And being able to come up
with new ideas to shift parts
of the business to, uh,
552
00:34:47,694 --> 00:34:53,612
continue to, you know,
grow or build or survive.
553
00:34:53,656 --> 00:34:57,312
These days we have to
compete with a lot more than
people had to compete
554
00:34:57,356 --> 00:35:01,229
with when they're in the '60s
and '70s, because people have
the internet and their phone.
555
00:35:01,273 --> 00:35:04,058
They can be watching a movie,
they can be playing a game,
556
00:35:04,102 --> 00:35:08,193
they can communicate with anyone
anywhere in the world
or they can listen to music.
557
00:35:08,236 --> 00:35:11,979
Whereas it in past times,
you know,
there were three TV channels,
558
00:35:12,022 --> 00:35:15,722
they went off the air
at ten o'clock, there weren't
that many things to do, right?
559
00:35:15,765 --> 00:35:17,158
And so listening to records
is something
560
00:35:17,202 --> 00:35:21,075
that people would engage
in a more focused way.
561
00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:23,860
The industry is depressed.
It's transitioning.
562
00:35:23,904 --> 00:35:26,211
It's just transitioning
from old model to the new model.
563
00:35:26,254 --> 00:35:29,953
There used to be a business to
it. You know, it was a business.
564
00:35:29,997 --> 00:35:35,437
And now, it's like a bunch
of people make music,
565
00:35:35,481 --> 00:35:38,179
and they put
it up on the internet for free,
566
00:35:38,223 --> 00:35:44,098
people listen to it for free,
and somehow, somewhere somebody
makes some money.
567
00:35:44,142 --> 00:35:47,623
Well, I'm not sure anymore
what the music industry is.
568
00:35:47,667 --> 00:35:54,108
The music industry Is kind of
this many-headed beast that goes
in a lot of different directions
569
00:35:54,152 --> 00:35:58,852
at the same time and on
a regular basis eats itself.
570
00:35:58,895 --> 00:36:02,334
[Marc] It's hard enough to get
anybody to wanna sign any band
571
00:36:02,377 --> 00:36:05,206
and it has been for obviously
eons and eons,
572
00:36:05,250 --> 00:36:09,993
but of course downsizing,
you know, now just exacerbates
that problem.
573
00:36:10,037 --> 00:36:13,693
Right when Too Much Stereo came
out we had redone our deal
with Virgin Records
574
00:36:13,736 --> 00:36:18,306
and we kinda started seeing a
bunch of people at the record
label just getting fired.
575
00:36:18,350 --> 00:36:21,701
Almost anyone
can make a record
576
00:36:21,744 --> 00:36:27,228
and most importantly now,
can get it, "out there".
577
00:36:27,272 --> 00:36:30,710
[Vance]
You can record a record
on your laptop in your bedroom.
578
00:36:30,753 --> 00:36:34,496
You can put it out
on iTunes yourself.
579
00:36:34,540 --> 00:36:39,240
Now, that is power to be able to
publish, self-publish,
580
00:36:39,284 --> 00:36:41,982
to record yourself, do yourself,
581
00:36:42,025 --> 00:36:46,204
and publish yourself,
and put it out there.
That is serious power.
582
00:36:46,247 --> 00:36:49,294
The problem with it is not
everybody should do that.
583
00:36:49,772 --> 00:36:52,166
Anything is available
for us to hear.
584
00:36:52,210 --> 00:36:56,257
I mean every song, whether
it's great to you or horrible
to you, it's right in your face.
585
00:36:56,301 --> 00:37:02,437
So the "music industry"
is flooded with shit,
586
00:37:02,481 --> 00:37:07,225
with a lot of bad music,
and nobody is curating it.
587
00:37:07,268 --> 00:37:10,924
And because everybody can record
at home, in the computer,
588
00:37:11,794 --> 00:37:13,927
nobody wants to pay
to come to a place like this.
589
00:37:13,970 --> 00:37:17,583
Not nobody, but not everybody.
590
00:37:17,626 --> 00:37:21,282
You're no longer bound
by coming up with that
big chunk of money
591
00:37:21,326 --> 00:37:23,153
to get a thousand CDs pressed.
592
00:37:23,197 --> 00:37:25,243
You know, you don't have
to do that anymore.
593
00:37:25,286 --> 00:37:29,595
You know, in 2006,
streaming came out and, uh,
Spotify was on the market,
594
00:37:29,638 --> 00:37:31,945
and then there was Pandora
came out,
595
00:37:31,988 --> 00:37:36,645
and YouTube was becoming
more and more of a place where
people were putting up music,
596
00:37:37,690 --> 00:37:43,173
and all of a sudden sales
plummeted, and they continued
to plummet.
597
00:37:43,217 --> 00:37:46,612
And they've been falling
continually for the past ten
years.
598
00:37:46,655 --> 00:37:51,617
Our business is affected
by changes in the overall studio
environment,
599
00:37:51,660 --> 00:37:53,662
in, you know, the worldwide
studio environment,
600
00:37:53,706 --> 00:37:57,753
which has been affected
by changes in the distribution
of music.
601
00:37:57,797 --> 00:38:02,280
Now, music distribution being
primarily electronic now,
602
00:38:02,323 --> 00:38:05,718
there is much less emphasis on
physical manufactured goods,
603
00:38:05,761 --> 00:38:12,377
much less emphasis on retail
sales, much less money in the
recording business generally.
604
00:38:12,420 --> 00:38:15,510
So a lot of
bigger recording studios
605
00:38:15,554 --> 00:38:21,647
that depended on major label
product being their bread
and butter, um,
606
00:38:21,690 --> 00:38:25,868
a lot of those studios have gone
under, because the profit
has kinda fallen out of that.
607
00:38:25,912 --> 00:38:29,742
[Steve Ewing] We started seeing
that radio was not actually
selling records anymore.
608
00:38:29,785 --> 00:38:32,048
iTunes was really bumpin'.
609
00:38:32,092 --> 00:38:36,183
I think the music business
imploded because people
didn't want to foresee
610
00:38:36,226 --> 00:38:40,100
what was gonna happen with how
technology was going to change
the music business.
611
00:38:40,143 --> 00:38:42,015
You know, as soon as people,
612
00:38:42,058 --> 00:38:45,366
you know, started downloading
pirated music
in the early 2000s,
613
00:38:45,410 --> 00:38:48,848
that's when, you know,
a light bulb should come on
in the music business and go,
614
00:38:48,891 --> 00:38:51,938
"Okay, we have to change
our business model now."
615
00:38:51,981 --> 00:38:56,682
If we think we are gonna compete
with free by selling people
$15 CDs,
616
00:38:56,725 --> 00:38:58,771
you know, we better
get our heads checked.
617
00:38:58,814 --> 00:39:05,734
So in 1976, Congress
reformed all of the copyright
code called "Title 17"
618
00:39:05,778 --> 00:39:10,260
and in it they put provisions
for how much radio had to pay
songwriters
619
00:39:10,304 --> 00:39:12,306
for the songs
that they spin.
620
00:39:12,350 --> 00:39:18,051
We have no such statutory rate
for songwriters to be paid
off streaming.
621
00:39:18,094 --> 00:39:23,404
I got a royalty check the other
day, Melissa Etheridge record,
she did a soul record,
622
00:39:23,448 --> 00:39:28,540
it's a really great record, it's
on Concord, I got mixed points
on it, I made one penny.
623
00:39:29,845 --> 00:39:33,022
One penny.
On that record.
624
00:39:34,981 --> 00:39:40,552
So, you know,
I mean what's the point?
625
00:39:40,595 --> 00:39:42,902
[Danny] Bottom line is
it's literally the same
kind of money.
626
00:39:42,945 --> 00:39:46,471
It's 1980 dollars, it's 1985
dollars, it's the same money.
627
00:39:46,514 --> 00:39:51,476
So I have no expectations
of making any money.
628
00:39:51,954 --> 00:39:53,739
You know, there's a lot of
people out there that,
629
00:39:53,782 --> 00:39:56,959
you know, illegally download our
record, which I can't fight it.
630
00:39:57,003 --> 00:40:00,006
[laughs]
So might as well
just accept it.
631
00:40:00,049 --> 00:40:02,269
And if they have it
and they like it, great.
632
00:40:02,312 --> 00:40:06,404
Those people often will buy
a shirt or something
and realistically nowadays too,
633
00:40:06,447 --> 00:40:08,667
especially when dealing
with labels,
634
00:40:08,710 --> 00:40:11,757
we make more money off
of selling a T-shirt to somebody
at a show
635
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,151
than we do selling
a 12-inch record to them, so...
636
00:40:15,195 --> 00:40:19,765
I don't think we'll ever get
back to a place where you can
make Nirvana money.
637
00:40:19,808 --> 00:40:22,550
I think today's Billy Corgan
doesn't get to buy a Jaguar,
638
00:40:22,594 --> 00:40:24,900
but I kind of think
that that's cooler, too.
639
00:40:24,944 --> 00:40:26,554
Nobody's buying music.
640
00:40:26,598 --> 00:40:29,775
Sales are how
we reap the reward.
641
00:40:29,818 --> 00:40:34,432
Uh, although, these days sales,
uh, don't exist.
642
00:40:34,475 --> 00:40:36,129
The music has become free.
643
00:40:36,172 --> 00:40:39,001
That's not right,
but it's become that way.
644
00:40:39,524 --> 00:40:45,399
You certainly don't get it
from the streaming services
that are out there, at all.
645
00:40:45,443 --> 00:40:51,187
I mean it's pennies and it's
not, you know, it's just not
worth talking about that.
646
00:40:51,231 --> 00:40:54,713
I mean even you're Taylor Swift
and you're not really making
much money from streaming.
647
00:40:54,756 --> 00:40:56,932
[Richard]
My income has not waned.
648
00:40:56,976 --> 00:41:03,243
I mean I'm not I'm still, you
know, increasing every year.
649
00:41:03,286 --> 00:41:05,463
Uh, but I think I've just been
very fortunate,
650
00:41:05,985 --> 00:41:10,032
but a lot of my friends, it's a
very different story, you know.
651
00:41:10,076 --> 00:41:15,821
Where we used to put out records
and then tour to support
those records,
652
00:41:15,864 --> 00:41:17,910
now it's sort of the reverse.
653
00:41:17,953 --> 00:41:22,001
Now, we put out records
to support tours.
654
00:41:22,044 --> 00:41:24,917
The applecart is flipped
around backwards.
655
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:30,052
Uh, my friends who do indie
records and are out on the road,
656
00:41:30,096 --> 00:41:35,623
they are only making money
playing live and selling vinyl.
657
00:41:36,363 --> 00:41:37,756
Go figure.
658
00:41:37,799 --> 00:41:39,845
I hate using the term
"trickle-down".
659
00:41:40,323 --> 00:41:44,414
But, you know, like if more
people were buying records,
660
00:41:44,458 --> 00:41:48,418
you know, more engineers
and producers could stay afloat,
661
00:41:49,071 --> 00:41:51,509
and, uh,
and be able to do it well.
662
00:41:51,552 --> 00:41:53,554
I don't think the consumer
gives a shit.
663
00:41:53,598 --> 00:41:57,732
I think the consumer is like,
"Well, music has always been
free for me."
664
00:41:57,776 --> 00:42:01,301
Even if you're my age, music's
always been free to some degree,
665
00:42:01,344 --> 00:42:03,433
because you could listen
to the radio.
666
00:42:03,477 --> 00:42:08,830
But the difference is radio
is mandated to pay
and streaming sites are not.
667
00:42:08,874 --> 00:42:14,575
They think of it as a product
that's replaceable like with
any other product.
668
00:42:15,271 --> 00:42:17,099
That concerns me
669
00:42:17,143 --> 00:42:22,540
because any art form
is so important to a culture.
670
00:42:23,062 --> 00:42:24,585
It's the heart of the culture.
671
00:42:24,629 --> 00:42:26,892
It concerns me
that there's no heart.
672
00:42:26,935 --> 00:42:30,243
[Steve] Society as a whole,
we're kind of underfunding
our creative people.
673
00:42:30,765 --> 00:42:34,769
It's happened in journalism,
it's happening everywhere,
nobody cares about content.
674
00:42:35,248 --> 00:42:40,340
If the general economy has any
say in the creative economies,
675
00:42:40,383 --> 00:42:44,257
then there are some very rich
people and the rest of us
are hosed.
676
00:42:44,300 --> 00:42:46,389
Well, of course, it sucks.
677
00:42:48,304 --> 00:42:54,615
I mean it's just a different
time and those days are gone,
you know.
678
00:42:54,659 --> 00:42:56,704
And it's just different.
679
00:42:56,748 --> 00:43:01,579
Has it affected me?
Yes. I'm making less money
for the same amount of work.
680
00:43:01,622 --> 00:43:03,885
But I'm doing something I love.
681
00:43:04,364 --> 00:43:08,194
It was told to me a long time
ago if you do something
you love,
682
00:43:08,237 --> 00:43:10,152
you never work a day
in your life.
683
00:43:10,196 --> 00:43:14,940
My account has changed,
my bank, but the love
of what I do hasn't.
684
00:43:15,505 --> 00:43:19,901
I always wanted to own
a recording studio and for
my sins, they gave me one.
685
00:43:24,427 --> 00:43:27,866
The definition of a recording
studio has changed so much
over the years.
686
00:43:28,693 --> 00:43:33,175
I used to believe in the
traditional model, because
that's what I grew up in.
687
00:43:33,219 --> 00:43:37,092
That it was a fancy place
with beautiful wood walls,
and floors,
688
00:43:37,136 --> 00:43:39,442
and, you know,
a dead part, and a live part,
689
00:43:39,486 --> 00:43:41,836
and a big fancy console,
and everything else.
690
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,971
I still love that definition,
but I have come to realize
in recent years
691
00:43:46,014 --> 00:43:51,498
that a recording studio can be
anywhere where talented people
get together and create.
692
00:43:51,541 --> 00:43:55,763
[Brian] What a recording studio
is isn't so much defined
by the space
693
00:43:55,807 --> 00:43:57,591
that you're in but what you're
doing in the space.
694
00:43:57,635 --> 00:44:01,595
[Richard] Most of the sessions
I do now, like nine out of ten,
695
00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:04,598
I'm doing at my house,
in my studio.
696
00:44:04,642 --> 00:44:06,252
There's pros and cons.
697
00:44:06,295 --> 00:44:09,081
I mean the great thing about
the way the industry is now
698
00:44:09,124 --> 00:44:14,782
is that we're seeing a lot of
incredible talent develop
in bedrooms
699
00:44:14,826 --> 00:44:19,831
as people become their own
producers and engineers
out of necessity,
700
00:44:19,874 --> 00:44:22,398
and sometimes it's amazing.
701
00:44:22,442 --> 00:44:29,014
You know, sometimes it's
phenomenal, because it's really
pure and it's unadulterated.
702
00:44:29,057 --> 00:44:34,236
It's unaffected by labels
or by "producers" or, you know,
703
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,499
people telling them how things
should be.
704
00:44:36,543 --> 00:44:41,069
[Steve] These guys are doing it
from bedrooms, from basements,
from living rooms.
705
00:44:41,113 --> 00:44:43,419
I mean they're making
incredible-sounding music
with great songs
706
00:44:43,463 --> 00:44:46,988
and they're doing it without,
you know, being elite
or rich or having,
707
00:44:47,032 --> 00:44:50,252
you know, to book out some big
studio for, you know,
25 grand a week.
708
00:44:51,863 --> 00:44:56,389
[Andy] Honestly, most of the
time when I've gone to something
that is like a pro studio,
709
00:44:56,432 --> 00:45:00,523
it's been there's at
least a little bit of like
posturing to it, you know.
710
00:45:00,567 --> 00:45:04,310
On my end as a performer
like a little bit more nervous
or, you know.
711
00:45:04,353 --> 00:45:08,662
Um, so there is probably some
truth in just more casual
the atmosphere,
712
00:45:08,706 --> 00:45:12,579
uh, the better for comfort
level, performing,
and stuff like that.
713
00:45:12,622 --> 00:45:16,235
[Sunyatta] Playing in studios
was always a little bit
intimidating,
714
00:45:16,278 --> 00:45:19,629
typically the engineer is a very
accomplished musician,
715
00:45:19,673 --> 00:45:22,023
and they're around really
accomplished musicians all day,
716
00:45:22,067 --> 00:45:24,634
and people put their part down,
and then I'm like, "Ooh".
717
00:45:24,678 --> 00:45:28,943
You know, get real like just,
uh, stage fright basically,
um, in the studio.
718
00:45:28,987 --> 00:45:33,643
The first guitar solo
I ever recorded,
I did like over 70 takes.
719
00:45:33,687 --> 00:45:38,213
And I was like near tears,
and just losing my mind,
720
00:45:38,257 --> 00:45:41,347
and like that performance
is one of the worst things
I've ever done.
721
00:45:41,390 --> 00:45:45,568
It's like let it be sort of
off the cuff, let it be casual,
you know.
722
00:45:45,612 --> 00:45:50,660
We did home recordings too
and I didn't have
any of that fear
723
00:45:50,704 --> 00:45:54,403
and the process was just a lot
smoother just because of
the sort of stage fright
724
00:45:54,447 --> 00:45:56,536
that I used to get
in that situation.
725
00:45:56,579 --> 00:45:58,886
It's strange that I found
like I'm just more comfortable
726
00:45:58,930 --> 00:46:01,889
with it being in my extra
bedroom, you know.
727
00:46:01,933 --> 00:46:07,852
I'm not a fan of tan walls,
and oak trim,
and the glass right there,
728
00:46:07,895 --> 00:46:11,638
and dual speakers with wooden
horns, and "this is a console".
729
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,206
You know, who gives a shit
what kind of microphone it is
730
00:46:14,249 --> 00:46:16,817
if the person isn't inspired to
do their thing in front of it.
731
00:46:18,732 --> 00:46:24,390
I've always been fascinated
by the control of having
a home studio.
732
00:46:25,043 --> 00:46:30,570
And by control I mean control
over how much you're spending,
733
00:46:30,613 --> 00:46:35,793
control over the
availability of time,
control over your schedule,
734
00:46:35,836 --> 00:46:41,494
and ultimately control
frequently over, uh, you know,
just the musical workflow,
735
00:46:41,537 --> 00:46:46,368
how does this work and not
feeling bad about walking away
from the room if you need to.
736
00:46:46,412 --> 00:46:49,632
You know, and saying...
It's not happening right now.
737
00:46:49,676 --> 00:46:54,159
Now, that's the other
disadvantage of mixing in
a studio is I got to go there,
738
00:46:54,202 --> 00:47:00,382
I can't mix in my pajamas unless
I have no shame, the client
is paying for that room,
739
00:47:00,426 --> 00:47:05,866
so I can't just say after six
hours, "Uh, I'm not feeling like
mixing today."
740
00:47:05,910 --> 00:47:08,086
Here, I can do that. Whatever.
741
00:47:08,129 --> 00:47:11,654
Uh, you know, I'm a little tired
today, I don't feel like mixing.
742
00:47:11,698 --> 00:47:15,658
If I blow off a day it's because
I need to blow off the day,
I need the space,
743
00:47:15,702 --> 00:47:18,400
I need to reset my head, I need
to get away from it, whatever.
744
00:47:18,444 --> 00:47:24,493
There is some kind of urgency
to it in comparison
to a home studio
745
00:47:24,537 --> 00:47:26,669
where you can just be like,
"Uh, I'm gonna go make a pizza
746
00:47:26,713 --> 00:47:29,020
and I'll come back in a half an
hour," you know.
747
00:47:29,063 --> 00:47:33,633
But again, there was so much
urgency when I had the space
748
00:47:34,112 --> 00:47:37,550
that I never could like
have fun doing it.
749
00:47:37,593 --> 00:47:41,597
Shame Club recorded an album
uh, at a place called
Mousetrap.
750
00:47:41,641 --> 00:47:44,905
The Mousetrap in Norman,
Oklahoma, with Carl Amburn.
751
00:47:44,949 --> 00:47:51,085
Well, he had like a full studio
built into this, uh, barn
in like his mom's backyard.
752
00:47:51,129 --> 00:47:53,479
So that was really,
really chill.
753
00:47:53,522 --> 00:47:55,568
We would just like
sleep in the barn.
754
00:47:55,611 --> 00:47:59,180
He had like on cots or
whatever, and he had AC
in the in the sound room,
755
00:47:59,224 --> 00:48:03,271
so like there wasn't a bathroom
out there, there was just like
a piss tree.
756
00:48:03,315 --> 00:48:05,926
Like if you had to take a shit,
you would have to go
into the house
757
00:48:05,970 --> 00:48:08,624
and walk past his mom,
you know, and be like, "Hi".
758
00:48:08,668 --> 00:48:12,106
I mean why to why I have
to why be pigeonholed
into something?
759
00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:15,936
I mean I think being open
to different spaces
760
00:48:15,980 --> 00:48:19,984
sometimes I record vocals
in my bedroom, at my house.
761
00:48:20,027 --> 00:48:23,378
And I love the fact that I can
do that, 'cause financially
762
00:48:23,422 --> 00:48:25,554
and economically,
it saves me money,
763
00:48:25,598 --> 00:48:29,776
to know that I can be able to do
that or I edit vocals
on GarageBand,
764
00:48:29,819 --> 00:48:32,387
because I don't have the time
right now to learn Pro Tools.
765
00:48:33,823 --> 00:48:38,219
I write lyrics
in fits and starts,
and it's really, really nice.
766
00:48:38,263 --> 00:48:45,096
Once I get that specific,
uh, lightning strike to just go
in and start recording vocals.
767
00:48:45,139 --> 00:48:49,665
And spreading those songs
apart, um, and getting some
arrangement going.
768
00:48:49,709 --> 00:48:53,017
And if we had to book
a studio, at those super,
769
00:48:53,060 --> 00:48:57,543
you know, right at that moment,
um, that would be,
you know, an obstacle.
770
00:48:57,586 --> 00:48:59,501
You know,
there's a Rundgren album cover
771
00:48:59,545 --> 00:49:02,896
where there's a picture
of him and a mic is taped
to like a broom
772
00:49:02,940 --> 00:49:07,683
up against the back of a chair,
and it's his living room, and
he's at home making a recording,
773
00:49:07,727 --> 00:49:10,208
and I've always been really,
really intrigued by that.
774
00:49:10,251 --> 00:49:15,387
Any place that is comfortable
and makes good music
is a studio to me.
775
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:18,433
It can be cheap, and shitty,
and still have personality,
776
00:49:18,477 --> 00:49:20,870
and like that's the important
thing that I wanna convey.
777
00:49:20,914 --> 00:49:27,007
If it's just you and your
laptop, and, you know, a couple
of hundred bucks for the gear,
778
00:49:27,051 --> 00:49:29,009
you can have
your creative outlet.
779
00:49:29,053 --> 00:49:34,275
If you wanna create art,
why should you have
a barrier of having to,
780
00:49:34,319 --> 00:49:37,975
you know, be rich or be elite
just so that you can create
your art?
781
00:49:38,018 --> 00:49:42,457
I think it's a fantastic thing
that everyone can walk
into a music shop,
782
00:49:42,501 --> 00:49:46,331
and spend a few hundred bucks,
and get a recording interface,
and spend 14.99,
783
00:49:46,374 --> 00:49:49,421
and get a bunch of great
processing plugins
that can reproduce
784
00:49:49,464 --> 00:49:51,379
what a big commercial studio
can do.
785
00:49:51,423 --> 00:49:53,816
Because it used to be that
you couldn't you had to have
a bunch of money
786
00:49:53,860 --> 00:49:55,557
or you had to be pre-approved
from someone else
787
00:49:55,601 --> 00:49:59,039
in order to get access to ever
even recording stuff.
788
00:49:59,083 --> 00:50:02,695
Now, every any kid can just do
that on their phone
789
00:50:02,738 --> 00:50:04,958
or, you know,
that's just amazing to me.
790
00:50:05,002 --> 00:50:08,353
And some people will see that as
a negative thing and I disagree.
791
00:50:08,396 --> 00:50:10,094
I think that's a positive thing.
792
00:50:10,833 --> 00:50:13,793
There's no reason, you know,
nobody else has to press play,
793
00:50:13,836 --> 00:50:16,665
you know, but everyone should
be able to at least...
794
00:50:16,709 --> 00:50:18,711
-Hit record.
-Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
795
00:50:18,754 --> 00:50:22,106
[calm music plays]
796
00:50:25,413 --> 00:50:27,589
[Kenny] Home recording
has definitely picked up,
797
00:50:27,633 --> 00:50:32,159
but I don't think
that it renders the recording
studio obsolete by any means.
798
00:50:32,203 --> 00:50:37,295
The thing you that one might
think is, "Well, when you have
a professional recording studio
799
00:50:37,338 --> 00:50:39,123
that you're gonna be worried
about people recording at home,
800
00:50:39,166 --> 00:50:42,343
and the home recording
revolution, and the laptop
revolution,"
801
00:50:42,387 --> 00:50:46,043
and, uh, I was aware
of that when we started
my studio 1980.
802
00:50:47,348 --> 00:50:49,611
I think I'm probably on the
sixth or seventh backlash
803
00:50:49,655 --> 00:50:51,831
from recording people
going record at home,
804
00:50:51,874 --> 00:50:55,269
realize it's harder than
they think, or realize
they really love it,
805
00:50:55,313 --> 00:50:57,837
and then they wanna get
into a studio, and do it.
806
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:02,450
What I've found is that the home
recording revolution really has
just given me better educated,
807
00:51:02,494 --> 00:51:04,496
more experienced clients.
808
00:51:04,539 --> 00:51:07,455
[Matt Ross-Spang] If you do
a home studio and you record
a little bit,
809
00:51:07,499 --> 00:51:10,067
you realize why you need
to go to a studio.
810
00:51:10,110 --> 00:51:12,417
I think that's for a while.
811
00:51:12,460 --> 00:51:15,550
A few years ago, we had a big
boom in home recording and
studios were really suffering,
812
00:51:15,594 --> 00:51:18,858
but I think people now
are realizing it doesn't sound
as good,
813
00:51:18,901 --> 00:51:21,600
you need to collaborate with
people, you need to have experts
814
00:51:21,643 --> 00:51:24,646
and professionals work with you
if you wanna have
a bigger sound.
815
00:51:24,690 --> 00:51:28,998
[Jeff] There's obviously
the studio and the acoustic
design of a room
816
00:51:29,042 --> 00:51:31,218
that gives it
its own personality,
817
00:51:31,262 --> 00:51:34,395
but more important
than anything are the people
that work there.
818
00:51:34,439 --> 00:51:37,746
[Matt Ross-Spang] What you don't
have is the guy who's been
recording for 30 years,
819
00:51:37,790 --> 00:51:41,924
who knows how to get interesting
sounds and push you in ways
820
00:51:41,968 --> 00:51:44,275
that you need to be pushed
to do stuff.
821
00:51:44,318 --> 00:51:47,539
I mean one of the roles
of an engineer is to make the
technological process disappear,
822
00:51:47,582 --> 00:51:51,369
so that the musicians
and producer can just get
at the music
823
00:51:51,412 --> 00:51:54,894
and be as creative as possible,
and there's not time wasted
trying to figure out
824
00:51:54,937 --> 00:51:58,550
how to get a sound or how
to make the computer
do what you want it to do.
825
00:51:58,593 --> 00:52:02,815
That's to me why people come
to studios to work
with certain people.
826
00:52:02,858 --> 00:52:06,471
In one sense, I think there has
been kind of a resurgence
of appreciation for
827
00:52:06,514 --> 00:52:10,866
what is a traditional
type of production ethic.
828
00:52:10,910 --> 00:52:15,567
You really have to be diverse
to be able to be able to
make it.
829
00:52:15,610 --> 00:52:18,309
Had to adapt
over the years and, uh,
830
00:52:18,352 --> 00:52:21,573
or obviously we couldn't have
stayed in business
first two years.
831
00:52:21,616 --> 00:52:23,966
To become kind of like this
eight-armed octopus.
832
00:52:24,010 --> 00:52:29,755
[David] Our longevity is partly
because we also did related
things that also were, uh,
833
00:52:29,798 --> 00:52:32,061
contributed to income here.
834
00:52:32,105 --> 00:52:34,760
We do rock, but we also
do hip-hop, but also
we're a post house.
835
00:52:34,803 --> 00:52:39,460
Programming, uh, coding at the
earliest website times, yeah.
836
00:52:39,504 --> 00:52:41,897
But then we're also a music
house, we've done custom music.
837
00:52:41,941 --> 00:52:47,164
It's a recording studio which is
about 7000 square feet
of our 12,000.
838
00:52:47,207 --> 00:52:49,775
Um, we have the vinyl
mastering suite.
839
00:52:49,818 --> 00:52:52,169
We've expanded that into
digital mastering as well.
840
00:52:52,952 --> 00:52:57,478
We do the next step
in vinyl production,
which is electroplating,
841
00:52:57,522 --> 00:53:02,831
and then we have a company
called Mara Machines, which
restores MCI tape machines.
842
00:53:02,875 --> 00:53:07,140
And we weren't afraid to tackle
really things a little beyond
843
00:53:07,184 --> 00:53:09,577
what the scope
of just recording.
844
00:53:09,621 --> 00:53:13,059
[Steve] You know, technology
disrupts a lot of industries and
you just have to continue on,
845
00:53:13,102 --> 00:53:15,235
there's nothing you can do
about it.
846
00:53:15,279 --> 00:53:19,326
So I mean do I see it as a
bad thing that now a lot more
people have access to,
847
00:53:19,370 --> 00:53:21,154
you know, low-priced tools
to create art?
848
00:53:21,198 --> 00:53:23,330
No, I don't see it
as a bad thing.
849
00:53:23,374 --> 00:53:26,246
Do I want guys who've spent
their careers running
commercial studios to fail?
850
00:53:26,290 --> 00:53:28,074
I don't want that either.
851
00:53:28,117 --> 00:53:30,032
[Marc] The only way for those
big rooms to sustain themselves
852
00:53:30,076 --> 00:53:32,209
is just to really have
corporate clients,
853
00:53:32,252 --> 00:53:35,342
and do film and TV stuff
or else they're
just gonna have to like,
854
00:53:35,386 --> 00:53:40,260
you know, lose the memories
of what they used to make
and deal with it.
855
00:53:40,304 --> 00:53:41,957
You have to have
a core clientele
856
00:53:42,001 --> 00:53:44,656
and you have to serve that
clientele within their means.
857
00:53:44,699 --> 00:53:50,923
And that's our challenge, you
know, to make the most of what
we've got, and look out,
858
00:53:50,966 --> 00:53:53,752
and figure out how we can be
a value to people,
859
00:53:53,795 --> 00:53:56,929
and generate the sort of income
that keeps us going.
860
00:53:56,972 --> 00:54:01,716
[Jason] A successful place
is probably one that's
owner-occupied and owner-run.
861
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:03,936
Too many paychecks
bring the bills down.
862
00:54:03,979 --> 00:54:07,548
You know, you can hope that you
get millionaires now and again,
863
00:54:07,592 --> 00:54:12,901
but you cannot base a business
on the occasional occurrence
of millionaire clients.
864
00:54:12,945 --> 00:54:15,817
And whatever, may be the
millionaire musicians go away,
865
00:54:15,861 --> 00:54:18,342
but, okay,
I'm alright with that.
866
00:54:18,385 --> 00:54:22,389
Let me make $30,000 a year
writing dumb songs.
867
00:54:22,433 --> 00:54:25,262
Nobody sits down and listens
to a record anymore.
868
00:54:26,741 --> 00:54:28,700
That just makes
a guy like me sad.
869
00:54:28,743 --> 00:54:30,876
That doesn't mean it's right.
870
00:54:30,919 --> 00:54:36,708
I miss that and I miss
the importance of creating
that experience for people,
871
00:54:36,751 --> 00:54:38,840
but now other people
are creating other experiences,
872
00:54:38,884 --> 00:54:42,540
and what I see as an exciting
thing is these, uh,
873
00:54:42,583 --> 00:54:46,587
audio experiences that are being
created that I have never even
thought of yet,
874
00:54:46,631 --> 00:54:52,376
and I see young people
who care a lot, and that
gives me great hope.
875
00:54:52,419 --> 00:54:59,339
But I think the pendulum swings
and certainly being in business
this 30-plus years, um,
876
00:54:59,383 --> 00:55:01,733
you see that pendulum swing
a lot.
877
00:55:01,776 --> 00:55:03,735
In some ways,
it's kind of over already.
878
00:55:03,778 --> 00:55:06,172
I think like the golden era,
it's kind of passed.
879
00:55:06,215 --> 00:55:08,392
No reason of being scared
of that, you know.
880
00:55:08,435 --> 00:55:10,176
It's just the change
has already happened.
881
00:55:10,219 --> 00:55:12,570
Maybe it's just somebody else's
golden era right now.
882
00:55:14,223 --> 00:55:17,575
The sonic communication
business is still very strong.
883
00:55:17,618 --> 00:55:20,099
People are talking
about budgets going down.
884
00:55:20,142 --> 00:55:21,753
I'm a very positive-looking guy.
885
00:55:21,796 --> 00:55:24,103
I mean vinyl's selling
like crazy.
886
00:55:24,146 --> 00:55:27,454
We have the internet now,
which means anyone can promote
their music and put it out,
887
00:55:27,498 --> 00:55:29,891
so there's more ways
to get your music out there.
888
00:55:29,935 --> 00:55:32,372
The options now
are incredible for people
889
00:55:32,416 --> 00:55:34,983
and I think it's not
any different than it was
back in the day,
890
00:55:35,027 --> 00:55:38,465
you just have to be
talented and you have to think
outside the box.
891
00:55:38,509 --> 00:55:43,165
[David] It's in our court.
What can we do to continue
to be relevant?
892
00:55:43,209 --> 00:55:45,994
In 35 years,
we've managed to remain
relevant.
893
00:55:46,038 --> 00:55:50,521
[Chris] I think it's a great
time to be making music
in this industry.
894
00:55:50,564 --> 00:55:54,133
Right now, I'm working on
a project from a band
from Singapore,
895
00:55:54,176 --> 00:55:55,917
and they Hightail
me their tracks,
896
00:55:55,961 --> 00:56:00,095
and I mix it
and send it back to them,
and that's awesome.
897
00:56:00,139 --> 00:56:04,361
[Mark] I think it all has to
stem from a love of music,
and enjoyment of other people,
898
00:56:04,404 --> 00:56:07,276
dedication to doing what we do.
899
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:11,280
I have a saying which is, uh,
"This stuff is way too
important to take seriously."
900
00:56:12,325 --> 00:56:15,284
I'm not afraid by any of it,
I just enjoy it and, uh,
901
00:56:15,328 --> 00:56:19,027
you know, any obstacles
can be gotten around.
902
00:56:19,071 --> 00:56:24,381
Often when something kinda dries
up, it bubbles up someplace else
903
00:56:24,424 --> 00:56:30,430
and you just have to be able to
adapt and, um, and take
advantage of that.
904
00:56:30,474 --> 00:56:32,432
Yeah, of course, it's changed.
905
00:56:32,476 --> 00:56:36,305
You don't earn as much money,
but for me it was never
about the money.
906
00:56:36,349 --> 00:56:42,181
I honestly say that, you know,
if you make great art,
the money will happen.
907
00:56:42,224 --> 00:56:46,315
Every artist has their own
unique ability to create.
908
00:56:46,359 --> 00:56:49,231
I want everyone making art.
I think it's a beautiful thing.
909
00:56:49,275 --> 00:56:54,236
I think, you know, what will be
amazing is if that more people
can get attracted to this art
910
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:57,588
and to the art of music
and music production that
normally wouldn't have.
911
00:56:57,631 --> 00:57:02,941
That's the key to success
and the key to satisfying work.
912
00:57:02,984 --> 00:57:07,902
Because eventually people
will be able to make money in
this industry, it's inevitable.
913
00:57:07,946 --> 00:57:11,471
And it's a lot more fun, because
we don't have some A&R guy
breathing down our neck
914
00:57:11,515 --> 00:57:14,387
and telling us it needs more
shaker or cowbell
or what have you.
915
00:57:14,431 --> 00:57:18,652
[Danny] What I wanna do is
make records that family,
and friends,
916
00:57:18,696 --> 00:57:22,264
and a handful of other people
like to listen to.
917
00:57:22,308 --> 00:57:26,181
Anything we get back
from that, feels really good.
918
00:57:26,225 --> 00:57:30,185
[Brian] The future of the music
business as it relates
to the idea of people
919
00:57:30,229 --> 00:57:35,147
who make their living
creating music,
920
00:57:35,190 --> 00:57:38,063
I think is bright.
921
00:57:38,106 --> 00:57:41,893
I actually think that how
it's going right now,
it's pretty beautiful.
922
00:57:41,936 --> 00:57:44,069
[Mark] There's a lot of promise.
923
00:57:44,112 --> 00:57:46,637
I think this is probably
the best time there is to be
in the record business.
924
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:51,511
[Steve Higdon] There's a lot
more acceptance of a broad range
of cool stuff now.
925
00:57:51,555 --> 00:57:55,994
People are affording great music
tools, they are making
great music.
926
00:57:56,037 --> 00:58:02,304
Music definitely is something
that is capable of making every
single person on Earth react.
927
00:58:02,348 --> 00:58:07,179
Music is so tied to emotion
and it's so personal.
928
00:58:07,222 --> 00:58:09,442
It's all I know.
929
00:58:09,486 --> 00:58:13,054
What makes your arm hair stand
up when something sends
a shiver down your spine?
930
00:58:13,098 --> 00:58:16,101
[Matt Ross-Spang]
Transcends language,
it transcends age,
931
00:58:16,144 --> 00:58:18,364
it transcends sex,
race, everything.
932
00:58:18,407 --> 00:58:21,585
It just, you know, uh,
it's just amazing.
933
00:58:21,628 --> 00:58:25,545
[Mark] I really enjoy tracking
records with musicians.
934
00:58:25,589 --> 00:58:29,114
I love the creativity of that,
and discovering sounds,
935
00:58:29,157 --> 00:58:33,727
and taking a song, an idea,
a vision, a dream, and making it
perceptible to other people.
936
00:58:33,771 --> 00:58:38,950
We're fixing it in some way
that it will, um, that it can
travel through space and time,
937
00:58:38,993 --> 00:58:43,432
and touch other people,
and make something
that will hopefully outlast us,
938
00:58:43,476 --> 00:58:46,131
and maybe continue to change
the world in the future.
939
00:58:46,174 --> 00:58:50,222
Making and creating
great things, that's what it is,
that's what it's about for me.
940
00:58:50,265 --> 00:58:52,093
And that satisfies me.
941
00:58:52,137 --> 00:58:54,748
And if I can make money
doing that, then great.
942
00:58:54,792 --> 00:58:57,534
I will continue to do that
until I'm dead.
943
00:59:00,449 --> 00:59:03,452
[rock music playing]
89494