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Here they come.
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Up the road.
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After 18 years.
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- How you doing?
- Oh, hello.
5
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- How are you?
- I'm pretty good.
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- How's it feel?
- It feels wonderful.
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Oh, God! Stevie, you're home!
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I was happy when I got out.
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I probably was the happiest man
on the earth.
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We knew he was innocent.
We knew he was innocent.
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Law enforcement
despised Steven Avery.
12
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Steven Avery was a shining example
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00:00:59,267 --> 00:01:03,634
of their inadequacies, their misconduct.
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No one ever intended
to do anybody any harm by this.
15
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We firmly believed that we had
the guilty party at the time.
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Welcome home!
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This was one of the biggest
miscarriages of justice I ever saw
18
00:01:18,133 --> 00:01:22,300
in 20 years in criminal defense work
and thousands of cases.
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It was like
the same old Steve was back.
20
00:01:27,734 --> 00:01:29,601
I missed you.
21
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He was happy. He was smiling.
22
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But I did tell him, "Be careful."
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There was just something I felt.
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I said, "Manitowoc County's
not done with you.
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They are not even close
to being finished with you."
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00:02:53,813 --> 00:02:58,813
Sync and corrections by explosiveskull
www.addic7ed.com
27
00:03:10,701 --> 00:03:12,767
We filed Steven Avery's lawsuit
28
00:03:12,834 --> 00:03:16,534
about a year after
the DNA had come through,
29
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indicating that he
had not committed the crime.
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- Good morning.
- You got a new hairdo.
31
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- A little bit.
- I didn't recognize you.
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00:03:25,501 --> 00:03:28,334
The defendants are Manitowoc County,
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Thomas Kocourek, who was the sheriff
at the time in 1985,
34
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and Denis Vogel,
the district attorney of Manitowoc County,
35
00:03:36,767 --> 00:03:40,367
again at the time in 1985.
36
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There is a distinction in the law
between simple mistakes
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for which officers like that are immune,
38
00:03:46,167 --> 00:03:49,033
and purposeful conduct
that violates constitutional rights,
39
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for which they're not immune.
40
00:03:50,367 --> 00:03:52,367
Just a little bit more waiting.
41
00:03:53,300 --> 00:03:57,200
I waited long enough.
A little bit more ain't gonna bother me.
42
00:03:57,267 --> 00:04:02,000
We're seeking compensation
for the loss of his freedom
43
00:04:02,067 --> 00:04:06,868
and punitive damages for the reckless
or indifferent behavior of the defendants.
44
00:04:16,534 --> 00:04:19,601
That there's some justice around yet.
45
00:04:24,234 --> 00:04:27,601
Even though there's no guarantee
that Steven Avery will win this case,
46
00:04:27,667 --> 00:04:31,033
he says it's still worth
going through the trial,
47
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just to hold somebody accountable
for taking 18 years of his life.
48
00:04:36,367 --> 00:04:39,267
They had the evidence
back then that I didn't do it...
49
00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,501
but nobody said anything.
50
00:04:45,901 --> 00:04:48,734
I don't see what I really did wrong
to the sheriff
51
00:04:48,801 --> 00:04:51,067
for him to pick on me like that.
52
00:04:52,601 --> 00:04:56,400
The only thing I can think of is
I ran my cousin off the road.
53
00:05:01,701 --> 00:05:04,834
We're on the record in the matter
of Avery v. Manitowoc County.
54
00:05:04,901 --> 00:05:07,834
Would you raise your right hand,
please, to be sworn in?
55
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Do you solemnly swear the testimony
you're about to give will be the truth,
56
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the whole truth and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
57
00:05:14,133 --> 00:05:15,267
Yes.
58
00:05:18,701 --> 00:05:25,400
Ma'am, I'm gonna show you a report
about Steven Avery, indecent exposure.
59
00:05:25,467 --> 00:05:29,567
It indicates that there was
a complaint received
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00:05:29,634 --> 00:05:32,501
September 20th, 1984.
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00:05:33,234 --> 00:05:38,167
It says that "he has been known
to masturbate on the hood of the car
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00:05:38,234 --> 00:05:41,467
as she's driving past." Do you see that?
63
00:05:41,534 --> 00:05:44,567
- Yes.
- Did you tell that to the police?
64
00:05:44,634 --> 00:05:46,801
Um...
65
00:05:46,868 --> 00:05:49,567
I didn't put it in that many words.
I didn't...
66
00:05:49,834 --> 00:05:51,968
He didn't masturbate
on the hood of my car,
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00:05:52,033 --> 00:05:56,534
but he did come out in front of my car
and he was...
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00:05:58,100 --> 00:05:59,634
doing his thing.
69
00:05:59,701 --> 00:06:03,067
This is why you're driving
40 miles an hour by his house?
70
00:06:03,133 --> 00:06:07,167
He did... He did run out towards the road.
71
00:06:07,234 --> 00:06:09,501
He was prepared. He had it all ready.
72
00:06:10,868 --> 00:06:14,767
OK. It then says
"he has had sexual relations
73
00:06:14,834 --> 00:06:18,133
- with his wife out on the lawn..."
- That, I have nothing...
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00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,367
Let me just finish the question.
75
00:06:20,434 --> 00:06:25,667
"...while all the neighbors are home
in the daytime and able to watch."
76
00:06:25,734 --> 00:06:27,901
- That, I didn't say at all.
- OK.
77
00:06:27,968 --> 00:06:31,067
Do you have any explanation
for why whoever is writing this
78
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might say that you said that?
79
00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,534
- I don't know.
- OK.
80
00:06:37,968 --> 00:06:42,934
Was there a period where you
were spending time in a nearby tavern
81
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,267
- and talking about Steven Avery?
- I might've.
82
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- I might've went to several taverns.
- All right...
83
00:06:52,367 --> 00:06:57,868
In 1985, were you personally friendly
with Steven Avery?
84
00:06:57,934 --> 00:06:59,234
No.
85
00:06:59,300 --> 00:07:02,300
In fact, you actively disliked him.
86
00:07:02,367 --> 00:07:05,901
- Is that right? At that time.
- Yes.
87
00:07:05,968 --> 00:07:10,234
OK. And you weren't quiet about it.
88
00:07:28,167 --> 00:07:32,033
The people that were close
to Steve knew he was harmless.
89
00:07:32,100 --> 00:07:35,501
He was always happy, happy, happy.
Always laughing.
90
00:07:35,567 --> 00:07:37,934
Always wanted to make other people laugh.
91
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:43,634
I think the people in the outside
community viewed him as an Avery.
92
00:07:43,701 --> 00:07:46,767
You know, viewed him as troublemaker.
93
00:07:46,834 --> 00:07:49,467
You know, "There goes another Avery.
They're all trouble."
94
00:08:00,701 --> 00:08:05,834
Manitowoc County
is working-class farmers.
95
00:08:05,901 --> 00:08:10,667
And the Avery family, they weren't that.
They dealt in junk.
96
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,501
They had a salvage yard.
They lived on Avery Road.
97
00:08:15,567 --> 00:08:17,934
I mean, they had their own road and stuff.
98
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,767
They didn't dress like everybody else,
99
00:08:19,834 --> 00:08:22,167
they didn't have education
like other people,
100
00:08:22,234 --> 00:08:24,868
they weren't involved
in all the community activities.
101
00:08:25,634 --> 00:08:27,834
I don't think it ever crossed their mind
102
00:08:27,901 --> 00:08:30,467
that they should try
to fit into the community.
103
00:08:30,534 --> 00:08:34,400
They fit into the community
they had built, and that was enough.
104
00:08:41,234 --> 00:08:44,467
Growing up with all
them cars, you know, it was pretty fun.
105
00:08:45,467 --> 00:08:50,300
Tearing them apart, fixing them...
running around in the trails,
106
00:08:50,367 --> 00:08:52,367
in the rows of the cars.
107
00:08:53,834 --> 00:08:58,934
Once, we had a car up there in the back
with the motor out and everything else
108
00:08:59,067 --> 00:09:01,801
and we had a bed back there
109
00:09:01,868 --> 00:09:04,767
and then we had a battery in it,
so we could listen to the radio,
110
00:09:04,834 --> 00:09:06,667
talk, goof around.
111
00:09:08,534 --> 00:09:10,634
You know, I had a nice childhood.
112
00:09:13,868 --> 00:09:16,367
The family sticks together.
113
00:09:16,434 --> 00:09:18,667
They have a very strong sense of family.
114
00:09:18,734 --> 00:09:21,267
They support each other. Um...
115
00:09:21,334 --> 00:09:24,167
They do a number of things
that are quite admirable.
116
00:09:24,234 --> 00:09:27,234
But they have also been in trouble
from time to time.
117
00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:30,100
Nothing like the problems
that Steven's been in.
118
00:09:32,267 --> 00:09:34,834
I really ain't got much
on my record.
119
00:09:35,834 --> 00:09:38,300
Two burglaries with my friends.
120
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We just rode around, get something to do.
121
00:09:42,734 --> 00:09:45,934
And we decided to rob a tavern and that...
122
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was the first time that I got busted
with them friends.
123
00:09:57,367 --> 00:09:59,167
Another mistake I did...
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00:09:59,234 --> 00:10:00,901
I had a bunch of friends over,
125
00:10:00,968 --> 00:10:03,400
and we were fooling around
with the cat...
126
00:10:04,334 --> 00:10:07,367
and, I don't know,
they were kind of negging it on and...
127
00:10:07,634 --> 00:10:12,133
I tossed him over the fire...
and he lit up.
128
00:10:13,367 --> 00:10:15,734
You know, it was the family cat.
129
00:10:18,501 --> 00:10:21,801
I was young and stupid
130
00:10:21,868 --> 00:10:24,901
and hanging around with the wrong people.
131
00:10:26,634 --> 00:10:30,000
Stevie did do
a lot of stupid things.
132
00:10:30,067 --> 00:10:32,667
But he always, always owned up
to everything he did wrong.
133
00:10:32,734 --> 00:10:35,033
He never said, "No it wasn't me."
134
00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:38,467
He said, "Yeah, it was me. I did it."
And paid his fine, sat in jail,
135
00:10:38,534 --> 00:10:40,133
whatever it was and it was no big deal.
136
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,767
He... Let's get on with life then.
137
00:10:48,767 --> 00:10:52,701
She was pretty,
beautiful, that's what I thought.
138
00:10:52,767 --> 00:10:54,934
She had a good head on her shoulders.
139
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,234
She was making it on her own.
140
00:10:57,300 --> 00:11:00,968
And she had Jason.
Jason was just a baby.
141
00:11:01,033 --> 00:11:04,467
And she told me that his father
didn't want nothing to do with him.
142
00:11:04,534 --> 00:11:07,434
So, I says, "I'll take over, then."
143
00:11:08,601 --> 00:11:10,567
Family's partway made.
144
00:11:10,634 --> 00:11:14,133
So I'm like,
"Well, I might as well give it a shot."
145
00:11:15,167 --> 00:11:19,234
July 24, 1982, a judge married us.
146
00:11:19,300 --> 00:11:24,968
Then after that, her ma and dad threw a
little wedding party there in the garage.
147
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From there, the kids.
148
00:11:29,634 --> 00:11:32,634
Rachel was born. I didn't see her born
149
00:11:32,701 --> 00:11:36,033
because I was locked up
for that cat incident.
150
00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:38,100
It kinda sucked.
151
00:11:38,167 --> 00:11:41,033
You know, you're supposed to be
bringing your kid into the world...
152
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and then you gotta miss it.
153
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And then Jenny, I seen Jenny born.
154
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I think I had a... a good life.
155
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Till all the trouble started.
156
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,467
Sandy Morris and Bill Morris,
157
00:12:03,534 --> 00:12:09,100
they were always picking on Stevie,
more or less, you know.
158
00:12:09,167 --> 00:12:14,968
Saying stuff about Steve that...
that wasn't true.
159
00:12:15,033 --> 00:12:17,701
And Steve didn't like that, you know.
160
00:12:19,033 --> 00:12:21,801
But I told Steven, "Leave it alone."
161
00:12:21,868 --> 00:12:26,701
In 1985, do you remember
the morning in January
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00:12:26,767 --> 00:12:29,067
when you were forced off the road
by Steven?
163
00:12:29,133 --> 00:12:30,801
Yes.
164
00:12:32,567 --> 00:12:36,834
The interview
is being conducted January 3, 1985,
165
00:12:36,901 --> 00:12:40,634
by Detective Larry Conrad of the
Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department.
166
00:12:40,701 --> 00:12:44,334
Steve, I'd like to ask you
if you would explain in your own words
167
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,434
exactly what happened.
168
00:12:46,501 --> 00:12:51,534
It was 4:30, quarter to 5,
and I let the dog out
169
00:12:51,601 --> 00:12:53,801
and started up the cars
to warm them up and...
170
00:12:53,868 --> 00:12:56,100
I seen her come by
and then I went down the road
171
00:12:56,167 --> 00:12:58,667
and I just pulled alongside of her.
172
00:12:58,734 --> 00:13:01,968
And then we hit
and she went into a little skid.
173
00:13:02,033 --> 00:13:04,067
Did she ever go down into the ditch?
174
00:13:04,133 --> 00:13:05,701
No.
175
00:13:05,767 --> 00:13:09,767
OK, once she stopped her car,
what was the next thing you did?
176
00:13:09,834 --> 00:13:15,200
I got out, and I grabbed a gun
and she asked me what I was doing.
177
00:13:15,267 --> 00:13:18,467
- Was your gun loaded?
- No, it was empty.
178
00:13:18,534 --> 00:13:20,200
The shells were at home.
179
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,534
And you know Sandy Morris
personally? Is she a relative of yours?
180
00:13:24,601 --> 00:13:25,667
Yeah.
181
00:13:26,667 --> 00:13:29,033
Steve,
can you tell me in your own words
182
00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:35,267
why you ran Sandy off the road
and pointed a gun at her?
183
00:13:35,334 --> 00:13:38,601
Because she was spreading rumors
that I was on the front lawn
184
00:13:38,667 --> 00:13:40,467
and on the road, bare ass,
185
00:13:40,534 --> 00:13:44,234
and she was telling everybody about it
and it wasn't true.
186
00:13:44,300 --> 00:13:46,667
- Was this bothering you?
- Yeah.
187
00:13:46,734 --> 00:13:51,601
Did you feel by taking the type
of action you did earlier today
188
00:13:51,667 --> 00:13:54,133
that this would stop the problem?
189
00:13:56,601 --> 00:13:58,234
I was hoping, yeah.
190
00:14:00,567 --> 00:14:02,934
Steven's actions
didn't get what he was hoping.
191
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,501
Sandy Morris happened to be married
to a Manitowoc County sheriff's deputy.
192
00:14:06,567 --> 00:14:10,701
And she immediately went to the Sheriff's
Department and filed a complaint...
193
00:14:11,601 --> 00:14:15,634
that minimized her involvement
in provoking the incident
194
00:14:15,701 --> 00:14:17,868
and maximized the alleged danger.
195
00:14:22,334 --> 00:14:25,067
I got his old records.
It was usually my practice
196
00:14:25,133 --> 00:14:27,400
to get all the information
I could on the client.
197
00:14:27,467 --> 00:14:32,133
Steven's school records showed
that he had barely functioned in school.
198
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,801
And one of the things I remember
was that his IQ was 70.
199
00:14:35,868 --> 00:14:41,667
Which gave me an idea of his coping skills
and why that action made sense to him.
200
00:14:45,601 --> 00:14:49,033
I didn't know
what to do, how to handle it.
201
00:14:49,901 --> 00:14:53,033
You know, 'cause it was putting
too much pressure on me.
202
00:14:53,100 --> 00:14:56,400
People would come up to me and say,
"You're doin' that? You're doin' that?"
203
00:14:56,467 --> 00:15:00,100
No. Not in the middle of winter.
In the middle of the road?
204
00:15:00,968 --> 00:15:02,868
It made me look like a...
205
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,968
like I was a no good person.
206
00:15:08,934 --> 00:15:12,501
Why did she start that?
I have no idea.
207
00:15:12,567 --> 00:15:15,634
But I don't think it was very nice of her.
208
00:15:15,701 --> 00:15:18,767
Just 'cause you're married
to law enforcement
209
00:15:18,834 --> 00:15:22,801
doesn't give you the right to...
to take somebody's name down like that.
210
00:15:22,868 --> 00:15:24,100
That was just wrong.
211
00:15:25,567 --> 00:15:27,334
The Sheriff's Department
responded
212
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,467
by really going after this case heavily.
213
00:15:31,534 --> 00:15:35,133
More heavily than I think they would've
if it was somebody else.
214
00:15:36,067 --> 00:15:40,367
I think Steven was a representative
in that case of the entire Avery family
215
00:15:40,434 --> 00:15:45,534
and how the Sheriff's Department saw them
as kind of a problem
216
00:15:45,601 --> 00:15:49,367
and definitely, uh, undesirable members
of the community,
217
00:15:49,434 --> 00:15:50,801
for lack of a better term.
218
00:15:50,868 --> 00:15:55,734
And the Morris case gave them a chance
to claim a violent felony
219
00:15:55,801 --> 00:15:57,734
had been committed by one of the Averys.
220
00:15:57,801 --> 00:16:02,100
And of course... the Sheriff's Department
and the DA took it and ran.
221
00:16:13,634 --> 00:16:15,467
I don't want to be a criminal.
222
00:16:16,734 --> 00:16:23,300
I want to be normal.
223
00:16:39,868 --> 00:16:43,567
After Lori had the twins,
he came over to my parents' house
224
00:16:43,634 --> 00:16:45,934
instead of taking poor Lori home.
225
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,467
You know, with them twin boys
and the girls.
226
00:16:48,534 --> 00:16:50,934
He had to come over to my parents'
and show us, you know,
227
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,968
his happy, healthy baby boys.
228
00:16:53,033 --> 00:16:55,968
Grin on his face from ear to ear,
I think, forever.
229
00:16:56,033 --> 00:16:59,501
He probably still has a grin
when you talk about the boys.
230
00:17:01,434 --> 00:17:05,567
He was over the moon.
He was just so proud.
231
00:17:05,634 --> 00:17:06,868
And he was proud of Lori.
232
00:17:06,934 --> 00:17:09,601
He was proud that she wanted him
233
00:17:09,667 --> 00:17:11,634
and married him
and all those kinds of things.
234
00:17:11,701 --> 00:17:15,067
He just thought his life was set.
Really, he did.
235
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,534
And that makes
what happened all the worse.
236
00:17:30,834 --> 00:17:33,467
July 29th, 1985.
237
00:17:33,534 --> 00:17:35,501
It was a warm, sunny day,
238
00:17:35,567 --> 00:17:39,934
and Penny Beerntsen and her husband
went to the beach on Lake Michigan.
239
00:17:41,667 --> 00:17:43,501
About 3:00 that afternoon,
240
00:17:43,567 --> 00:17:46,667
Penny started jogging north
along Lake Michigan.
241
00:17:49,067 --> 00:17:54,367
She passed a person who was wearing
a black leather jacket.
242
00:17:54,434 --> 00:17:57,667
Now, it was summer
and it was 85 degrees probably.
243
00:17:57,734 --> 00:17:59,067
So it was an odd thing.
244
00:17:59,133 --> 00:18:03,968
And he said something to the effect of,
"It's a nice day for a jog, isn't it?"
245
00:18:05,734 --> 00:18:10,033
Penny was on her way back,
and she could see ahead of her
246
00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:14,000
that same man that she had passed earlier.
247
00:18:14,067 --> 00:18:17,901
And he was directly in her path.
248
00:18:19,367 --> 00:18:23,267
To get away from him,
she ran into the water.
249
00:18:23,334 --> 00:18:27,133
But he grabbed her
and dragged her off into the woods.
250
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,067
He knocked her down.
251
00:18:32,133 --> 00:18:35,701
She was clawing at him,
and he attempted to rape her,
252
00:18:35,767 --> 00:18:38,834
but he didn't succeed in penetrating her.
253
00:18:40,033 --> 00:18:43,868
He ripped her clothes off,
he sexually assaulted her,
254
00:18:43,934 --> 00:18:46,701
he beat her up
and basically left her for dead.
255
00:18:49,934 --> 00:18:51,567
It was just real horrific.
256
00:18:51,634 --> 00:18:54,601
The kind of injuries she had
to her upper body
257
00:18:54,667 --> 00:18:57,367
could only be done
if someone's basically in your face.
258
00:18:57,434 --> 00:18:58,801
So it was very personal.
259
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,968
After Mrs. Beerntsen
was taken to the hospital,
260
00:19:11,067 --> 00:19:15,267
it turned out that
Sandra Morris' friend, Judy Dvorak,
261
00:19:15,334 --> 00:19:18,968
was the deputy sheriff
who was assigned to go to the hospital,
262
00:19:19,033 --> 00:19:23,133
and this is where the Sandra Morris matter
makes a difference,
263
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,901
because when Penny Beerntsen
describes her assailant,
264
00:19:26,968 --> 00:19:31,000
Judy Dvorak says,
"That sounds like Steven Avery."
265
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,767
Judy Dvorak lived across the road
from him at that time.
266
00:19:41,834 --> 00:19:46,901
And she definitely did not like Steven.
She had no use for him at all.
267
00:19:46,968 --> 00:19:51,934
And I think that boils down to the fact
that her and Sandy Morris were close,
268
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,567
very close friends.
269
00:19:58,601 --> 00:20:01,501
You're the one
who prepared the incident report
270
00:20:01,567 --> 00:20:04,234
and asked Mrs. Beerntsen
to read it and sign it.
271
00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:06,000
- Yes, sir.
- All right.
272
00:20:06,067 --> 00:20:09,267
"Beerntsen told Deputy Dvorak
and the sheriff
273
00:20:09,334 --> 00:20:14,000
that she was unable to read the
statement because of her blurred vision.
274
00:20:14,067 --> 00:20:17,634
Beerntsen was told
to sign the document anyhow."
275
00:20:17,701 --> 00:20:21,534
Did you tell Mrs. Beerntsen
to sign the document anyhow?
276
00:20:21,601 --> 00:20:23,767
I do not remember ever saying that.
277
00:20:23,834 --> 00:20:28,200
Did Sheriff Kocourek tell Mrs. Beerntsen
to sign the document anyhow?
278
00:20:29,901 --> 00:20:33,601
I have no recollection
of ever hearing that.
279
00:20:35,534 --> 00:20:38,200
I was told by other detectives
that, at that point,
280
00:20:38,267 --> 00:20:43,067
they've got a photograph of Stevie
from the old jail records.
281
00:20:43,133 --> 00:20:46,167
They brought it down,
and the chief deputy,
282
00:20:46,234 --> 00:20:50,734
Eugene Kusche that time, made
a composite drawing of that photograph,
283
00:20:50,801 --> 00:20:53,868
rather than doing it from her memory.
284
00:20:53,934 --> 00:20:56,033
And then they showed that
to Mrs. Beerntsen...
285
00:20:57,067 --> 00:20:58,968
who said, "Yeah, that's him."
286
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:03,467
Then they took that jail photograph
and did a photo lineup.
287
00:21:03,534 --> 00:21:07,000
And Mrs. Beerntsen
picked out that photograph.
288
00:21:08,501 --> 00:21:11,567
I mean, if you look
at Penny Beerntsen's original description,
289
00:21:11,634 --> 00:21:15,801
as far as height, weight, eye color,
all kinds of stuff,
290
00:21:15,868 --> 00:21:17,534
Steven did not fit that description.
291
00:21:17,601 --> 00:21:19,834
Steven's hair didn't fit,
the build, everything.
292
00:21:19,901 --> 00:21:24,467
He didn't fit that description.
But Judy Dvorak said he did. I mean, wow.
293
00:21:24,534 --> 00:21:27,601
So they show Penny Beerntsen
Steven's picture,
294
00:21:27,667 --> 00:21:29,968
and then she sees a lineup later
295
00:21:30,033 --> 00:21:32,400
and Steven is the only person
she's seen before.
296
00:21:32,467 --> 00:21:36,100
Plus, she had the sheriff's deputy saying,
"Gee, I think it sounds like this guy."
297
00:21:36,167 --> 00:21:38,400
That's pretty suggestive.
298
00:21:42,834 --> 00:21:48,901
Mr. Kusche, I have one large
framed composite drawing,
299
00:21:48,968 --> 00:21:52,868
if we could bring that up on the table
and put it in camera range.
300
00:21:52,934 --> 00:21:53,934
Yes, sir.
301
00:21:54,801 --> 00:21:57,734
- Did you cause this to be framed?
- Yes, sir.
302
00:21:57,801 --> 00:22:00,334
OK. Why'd you do that?
303
00:22:00,601 --> 00:22:03,400
It was my first composite.
304
00:22:03,467 --> 00:22:08,734
It was the only one I ever did
that was used in a court case.
305
00:22:08,801 --> 00:22:11,901
And I thought it'd make
a interesting, uh...
306
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,300
display in my office.
307
00:22:16,267 --> 00:22:19,801
Would you agree with me
that it's pretty remarkably coincidental
308
00:22:19,868 --> 00:22:24,067
that that would depict Steven Avery's
January 1985 mug photo,
309
00:22:24,133 --> 00:22:26,167
which was available to you that evening?
310
00:22:27,133 --> 00:22:29,667
One, the photo wasn't available to me.
311
00:22:30,601 --> 00:22:32,100
- No?
- No.
312
00:22:33,033 --> 00:22:34,133
It wasn't in the array?
313
00:22:35,968 --> 00:22:39,634
- After I drew the sketch, I saw it.
- OK, so it was available to you.
314
00:22:39,701 --> 00:22:41,734
- No.
- It was around that evening,
315
00:22:41,801 --> 00:22:45,267
it had been brought over from the jail
to the hospital, right?
316
00:22:45,334 --> 00:22:47,567
- I don't know when it arrived.
- You're just saying...
317
00:22:47,634 --> 00:22:50,033
You're telling us under oath
you didn't look at it.
318
00:22:50,100 --> 00:22:52,601
I'm telling you I didn't see it
319
00:22:52,667 --> 00:22:55,701
and I didn't know if it was there
before I started the sketch either.
320
00:22:56,067 --> 00:23:00,300
My sketch is what
the victim had me draw...
321
00:23:00,367 --> 00:23:02,067
- Right.
- ...as what she saw.
322
00:23:02,133 --> 00:23:04,934
We were able to present embarrassingly,
323
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,133
the difference between an older photograph
and what we then had,
324
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:14,467
which was the photograph from that night
as to how Steven Avery actually looked.
325
00:23:14,534 --> 00:23:18,501
That opened the door
to us being able to argue
326
00:23:18,567 --> 00:23:22,100
that Kusche drew the composite
327
00:23:22,167 --> 00:23:26,000
from the photograph of Steven Avery
328
00:23:26,067 --> 00:23:29,200
that was already in their files.
329
00:23:33,434 --> 00:23:35,200
And to argue that...
330
00:23:35,267 --> 00:23:39,934
that never would've happened without
the sheriff's participation as well.
331
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:46,100
In other words, they made the case against
Steven Avery that night themselves.
332
00:23:57,167 --> 00:24:01,200
The sheriff told me
"I got you now" when I got to jail.
333
00:24:02,634 --> 00:24:04,667
And the other cops couldn't do nothing.
334
00:24:04,734 --> 00:24:06,133
Nobody could do nothing.
335
00:24:07,267 --> 00:24:09,234
He had all the power.
336
00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:19,467
The public defender's office
got a list every day
337
00:24:19,534 --> 00:24:22,033
of who had been arrested the night before.
338
00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:25,667
And that was so the public defender could
go in and make sure they had an attorney
339
00:24:25,734 --> 00:24:27,901
for their first appearance.
340
00:24:27,968 --> 00:24:30,968
But Steven's name wasn't on the list.
341
00:24:31,033 --> 00:24:33,200
And the only reason
I knew he was in jail...
342
00:24:33,267 --> 00:24:37,734
and they knew I was his lawyer,
because Manitowoc was a small town...
343
00:24:37,801 --> 00:24:42,234
Lori called me and told me he was in jail.
So I went over and asked to see him.
344
00:24:42,300 --> 00:24:45,934
And the deputy told me that the sheriff
had ordered that Steven's name
345
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,667
not be on the jail list, that he
not be allowed any access to the phone,
346
00:24:49,734 --> 00:24:53,067
which is illegal,
that he not be allowed any visitors,
347
00:24:53,133 --> 00:24:55,167
and that he be held
in a cell block all by himself
348
00:24:55,234 --> 00:24:57,501
so he could have no contact with anybody.
349
00:24:57,567 --> 00:25:02,133
The sheriff didn't want him to be able
to talk to anybody, including a lawyer.
350
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,133
And I never ever saw that before or since.
351
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,033
I mean, he had a right to have a phone
call, he had a right to have an attorney.
352
00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:11,434
He had a right to be treated
just like anybody else.
353
00:25:14,667 --> 00:25:18,033
That Penny Beerntsen case was
just treated so differently from day one,
354
00:25:18,100 --> 00:25:21,934
and it had already started
with the whole Morris case.
355
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,934
Morning news.
A Maribel area man remains
356
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,701
in the Manitowoc County jail
without bail today
357
00:25:29,767 --> 00:25:32,033
in connection with the brutal beating
and the sexual assault
358
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:35,133
of a Manitowoc woman yesterday afternoon.
359
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,501
23-year-old Steven Avery
was denied bail
360
00:25:37,567 --> 00:25:40,667
on a motion of Manitowoc County
District Attorney Denis Vogel,
361
00:25:40,734 --> 00:25:42,534
who cited Avery's past record.
362
00:25:46,667 --> 00:25:49,467
This is not only
a violent sexual assault,
363
00:25:49,534 --> 00:25:54,601
it's a violent sexual assault of someone
who is a leader of the community.
364
00:25:54,667 --> 00:26:00,067
I mean, a shining example of what
Manitowoc would like its citizens to be.
365
00:26:00,133 --> 00:26:04,200
The Beerntsens owned commercial
enterprises that were popular
366
00:26:04,267 --> 00:26:08,601
and occupied a central place in the town.
367
00:26:08,667 --> 00:26:11,467
Tom Beerntsen was described
as being one of the best things
368
00:26:11,534 --> 00:26:14,501
to happen to Manitowoc in the last decade.
369
00:26:14,567 --> 00:26:18,968
The Beerntsens were clearly people
of substance in that community.
370
00:26:19,033 --> 00:26:23,200
When this happened, I think the sheriff
just wanted to get quick results
371
00:26:23,267 --> 00:26:25,868
and get a suspect behind bars.
372
00:26:25,934 --> 00:26:29,901
It was the only time in 20 years
of criminal defense practice
373
00:26:29,968 --> 00:26:34,467
that I ever saw a sheriff
that involved in a case from day one.
374
00:26:36,167 --> 00:26:38,567
I was absolutely devastated.
375
00:26:38,634 --> 00:26:42,267
It's like,
why would they arrest Steve for that?
376
00:26:42,334 --> 00:26:44,534
That was so out of his character.
377
00:26:44,601 --> 00:26:48,167
People believed he did it, though,
because he was an Avery.
378
00:27:08,033 --> 00:27:10,701
Whatever I learned about the case,
379
00:27:10,767 --> 00:27:16,267
any of the notions
that I had personally, uh...
380
00:27:16,334 --> 00:27:18,601
came from the police and the courts.
381
00:27:19,667 --> 00:27:23,133
Each morning you see if there's anything
going on in the Sheriff's Department.
382
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,868
I knew Tom Kocourek well.
383
00:27:25,934 --> 00:27:29,734
I knew District Attorney Denis Vogel
quite well because we visited with him
384
00:27:29,801 --> 00:27:33,734
on cases all the time.
He was kind of a part of our newsbeat.
385
00:27:33,801 --> 00:27:37,634
So Steven Avery was on that beat.
386
00:27:37,701 --> 00:27:41,801
We get acquainted with all
the regular names and he was one of them.
387
00:27:42,968 --> 00:27:46,968
When his name came up as the guy
that they were holding, it was...
388
00:27:47,033 --> 00:27:50,934
Oh, that would be within, you know,
that's in character.
389
00:27:52,367 --> 00:27:57,567
The event involving the deputy
sheriff's wife was still pending.
390
00:27:57,634 --> 00:28:00,901
And I think that was on everybody's mind.
391
00:28:02,167 --> 00:28:07,100
The case really turned on the fact
that violence was a real, recurring,
392
00:28:07,167 --> 00:28:11,534
regular part of his life,
that women seemed to be the victims.
393
00:28:19,334 --> 00:28:23,234
There isn't one iota
of physical evidence in this case
394
00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:25,434
that connects Steven Avery to it.
395
00:28:25,501 --> 00:28:27,934
The sheriff was told by the police,
396
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,634
"You have the wrong guy.
397
00:28:29,701 --> 00:28:32,167
You need to be aware
about this Gregory Allen."
398
00:28:34,968 --> 00:28:41,033
Gregory Allen, who had a long
criminal history for sexual crimes,
399
00:28:41,100 --> 00:28:46,801
for the use of violence,
was operating on an escalating basis
400
00:28:46,868 --> 00:28:48,767
in the Manitowoc area.
401
00:28:48,834 --> 00:28:52,834
So much so that the city
of Manitowoc Police Department
402
00:28:52,901 --> 00:28:57,968
was actually surveilling Gregory Allen
on a daily continuing basis.
403
00:28:58,033 --> 00:29:01,200
However, as fate would have it,
404
00:29:01,267 --> 00:29:04,400
on the afternoon of July 29th,
405
00:29:04,467 --> 00:29:06,734
the officers assigned
to do the surveillance
406
00:29:06,801 --> 00:29:10,467
were called to investigate other crimes.
407
00:29:10,534 --> 00:29:13,767
So at the very time
that Mrs. Beerntsen was assaulted,
408
00:29:13,834 --> 00:29:16,567
Gregory Allen was not under surveillance.
409
00:29:16,634 --> 00:29:22,167
Needless to say, when the story
surfaced amongst the police communities,
410
00:29:22,234 --> 00:29:26,701
detective Thomas Bergner
from the Manitowoc City Police Department
411
00:29:26,767 --> 00:29:30,701
went to see the sheriff
and disclosed to him
412
00:29:30,767 --> 00:29:34,200
this information respecting Gregory Allen.
413
00:29:34,267 --> 00:29:38,501
Essentially,
the sheriff told him not to bother,
414
00:29:38,567 --> 00:29:41,300
that they had their man, Steven Avery.
415
00:29:45,467 --> 00:29:50,167
Now, in our opinion,
that fact alone is bad enough.
416
00:29:50,234 --> 00:29:51,901
But more than that fact alone,
417
00:29:51,968 --> 00:29:55,467
three women
in the district attorney's office,
418
00:29:55,534 --> 00:29:57,834
based on their knowledge
of Gregory Allen,
419
00:29:57,901 --> 00:30:00,968
they thought that the police
had the wrong person,
420
00:30:01,033 --> 00:30:05,300
and they told their boss,
District Attorney Denis Vogel,
421
00:30:05,367 --> 00:30:10,634
"You've got the wrong guy. It's not
Steven Avery, it's Gregory Allen."
422
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,801
Tom Kocourek told Stevie,
423
00:30:17,868 --> 00:30:21,167
"I don't care if you did this
or if you didn't do it.
424
00:30:21,234 --> 00:30:22,834
I'm gonna get you for it."
425
00:30:22,901 --> 00:30:26,267
Now, is that anything to say to anybody?
426
00:30:26,334 --> 00:30:28,367
And what did he do?
427
00:30:28,434 --> 00:30:31,133
That goddamn Denis Vogel,
428
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,167
and that son of a bitchin' Hazlewood,
the judge...
429
00:30:34,234 --> 00:30:37,300
Steve had 22 witnesses at least.
430
00:30:37,367 --> 00:30:39,300
And there was one of them right there.
431
00:30:39,367 --> 00:30:42,534
And every one of us
were called fabricators, liars.
432
00:30:44,901 --> 00:30:46,868
If the alibi witnesses
were believed,
433
00:30:46,934 --> 00:30:49,801
there would be no way to find him guilty.
434
00:30:49,868 --> 00:30:52,734
Steve Avery was accounted for
every minute,
435
00:30:52,801 --> 00:30:58,601
from about 1:30 that afternoon until,
um...
436
00:30:58,667 --> 00:31:00,801
you know, at least 5:00.
437
00:31:02,434 --> 00:31:06,367
The victim was sexually assaulted
at approximately 3:50.
438
00:31:07,467 --> 00:31:11,534
All of these alibi witnesses testified
that on the day of the assault,
439
00:31:11,601 --> 00:31:14,467
Steve Avery was helping his parents
and other family members
440
00:31:14,534 --> 00:31:17,601
pour concrete at the salvage yard.
441
00:31:17,667 --> 00:31:21,000
The cement truck arrived sometime
between 1:00 and 2:00.
442
00:31:21,067 --> 00:31:24,501
Witnesses testified either
that they were out working with him,
443
00:31:24,567 --> 00:31:26,601
pouring the concrete,
or they were in the house
444
00:31:26,667 --> 00:31:29,434
watching Divorce Court
from 3:00 to 3:30
445
00:31:29,501 --> 00:31:32,634
and saw Steve Avery
immediately afterwards.
446
00:31:34,133 --> 00:31:38,000
Steve Avery then took his sister
in his four-by-four car
447
00:31:38,067 --> 00:31:40,501
out to a local gravel pit.
448
00:31:40,567 --> 00:31:42,300
They got stuck out there,
they had to dig it out.
449
00:31:42,367 --> 00:31:45,267
They got back right around 4:00.
450
00:31:45,334 --> 00:31:49,334
At that point, Steve Avery
picked up his wife and his children.
451
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,767
He had two very young babies that
had just been born a few days earlier.
452
00:31:52,834 --> 00:31:54,534
And then they went to Green Bay.
453
00:31:54,601 --> 00:31:56,567
It was about a 35 minute drive
to Green Bay.
454
00:31:56,634 --> 00:32:00,634
They washed the car, they got something
to eat, they went to the Shopko store.
455
00:32:00,701 --> 00:32:05,067
Evidence was presented
of a receipt giving the time at 5:13,
456
00:32:05,133 --> 00:32:07,701
and when he came back
from Green Bay with his wife,
457
00:32:07,767 --> 00:32:10,701
he called his brother Earl
to have him come over
458
00:32:10,767 --> 00:32:13,100
and help do some drywall in his house.
459
00:32:13,167 --> 00:32:15,467
And that they did that in the evening,
460
00:32:15,534 --> 00:32:17,501
finally going to bed,
461
00:32:17,567 --> 00:32:20,300
which is about the time
that the police then arrive.
462
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,567
When I kicked him, he said,
463
00:32:34,634 --> 00:32:37,067
"Now you're gonna die,
now I'm gonna kill you."
464
00:32:39,467 --> 00:32:40,968
And what did he do then?
465
00:32:41,033 --> 00:32:46,067
Then he put his hands on my
neck, and he started choking me very hard.
466
00:32:46,934 --> 00:32:49,801
Penny Beerntsen
was everything that Steven wasn't.
467
00:32:50,868 --> 00:32:54,300
Smart, educated, well-to-do,
church-going lady,
468
00:32:54,367 --> 00:32:58,667
a business owner,
involved in community affairs.
469
00:32:58,734 --> 00:33:01,868
So just think of the two of them,
side by side.
470
00:33:03,667 --> 00:33:06,567
Mrs. Beerntsen,
she's a very good witness.
471
00:33:06,634 --> 00:33:08,033
She was very positive.
472
00:33:08,100 --> 00:33:12,367
She stated that she'd made a point
when the crime was being committed
473
00:33:12,434 --> 00:33:15,868
of remembering who it was
who was doing this to her.
474
00:33:15,934 --> 00:33:20,067
And, uh, that... that carried the day.
475
00:33:22,934 --> 00:33:26,501
Were you able to pick out anyone
in that live line-up?
476
00:33:26,567 --> 00:33:27,567
Yes, I was.
477
00:33:27,634 --> 00:33:30,534
And do you have an opinion as to
whether or not the person you picked out
478
00:33:30,601 --> 00:33:33,901
in the live line-up is the same
as the person you picked out today?
479
00:33:33,968 --> 00:33:36,734
- Yes, it is the same person.
- And are you positive of that?
480
00:33:36,801 --> 00:33:38,968
I am absolutely positive.
481
00:33:42,834 --> 00:33:45,100
The whole thing was a nightmare.
482
00:33:46,634 --> 00:33:48,701
How do you think a man feels?
483
00:33:48,767 --> 00:33:52,601
You see your son sitting right there,
484
00:33:52,667 --> 00:33:57,033
and he's... and he's saying,
the tears are coming out of his eyes...
485
00:33:59,701 --> 00:34:02,067
"I didn't do it." He said...
486
00:34:05,934 --> 00:34:08,901
"I'm innocent. I didn't do it."
487
00:34:10,934 --> 00:34:14,434
And you know he didn't do it.
You were with him, you know.
488
00:34:19,467 --> 00:34:21,334
It's hard to take.
489
00:34:51,634 --> 00:34:53,934
In Wisconsin,
the way the parole system was set up
490
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,300
is if you didn't admit your guilt,
you did not get paroled.
491
00:34:57,367 --> 00:35:00,367
And of course Steven didn't admit
his guilt because he wasn't guilty.
492
00:35:00,434 --> 00:35:03,400
So that meant he wasn't gonna get paroled.
493
00:35:04,834 --> 00:35:09,767
He watched people who actually
had murdered somebody walk out.
494
00:35:10,968 --> 00:35:12,667
And he sat there.
495
00:35:13,968 --> 00:35:16,267
If I did it,
I'll admit right away.
496
00:35:16,334 --> 00:35:18,801
I'll take the punishment,
I'll do the time.
497
00:35:18,868 --> 00:35:22,667
But I don't break
for something I didn't do.
498
00:35:22,734 --> 00:35:24,701
I'll stay strong.
499
00:35:26,801 --> 00:35:28,667
I'll never fail.
500
00:35:45,534 --> 00:35:50,868
Dolores would take the kids to see Stevie
about sometimes two or three times a week.
501
00:35:51,701 --> 00:35:54,667
To Green Bay and that,
you know, to see Steve.
502
00:35:54,734 --> 00:35:59,534
A lot of times I was by myself,
but I'd still go.
503
00:35:59,601 --> 00:36:01,467
Just to go see him.
504
00:36:04,367 --> 00:36:07,167
It was Fox Lake,
505
00:36:07,234 --> 00:36:09,667
Green Bay,
506
00:36:09,734 --> 00:36:13,400
- Tennessee and Stanley.
- At the end there...
507
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,334
I used to go to all of them,
even if it was icy.
508
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,567
I drove on clear ice.
509
00:36:22,834 --> 00:36:26,767
With Lori, I suppose it was
hard for her to watch the kids.
510
00:36:26,834 --> 00:36:30,133
That was a bunch of kids to watch.
511
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:31,934
And she was alone.
512
00:36:34,167 --> 00:36:37,734
I don't know if she thought
he would ever get out or not.
513
00:36:39,634 --> 00:36:43,234
With me and my wife,
it was tough.
514
00:36:44,667 --> 00:36:46,267
We was fighting.
515
00:36:48,734 --> 00:36:50,667
She'd tell me she can't take it no more.
516
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,467
And she started with
she was gonna kill the kids,
517
00:36:54,534 --> 00:36:58,467
then commit suicide and everything else.
518
00:36:58,534 --> 00:37:03,467
A lot of back and forth,
a lot of hate and...
519
00:37:03,534 --> 00:37:05,667
I wrote some bad letters.
520
00:37:07,667 --> 00:37:12,000
It lasted about three years...
and then I told her to go for the divorce.
521
00:37:13,334 --> 00:37:15,801
You know, we just got where...
522
00:37:16,667 --> 00:37:19,667
we didn't care about each other
or nothing.
523
00:37:24,100 --> 00:37:28,601
He loved Lori and he loved the kids.
But he ended up with nothing.
524
00:37:37,467 --> 00:37:42,467
When she took the kids
away from me then... I tried to stay busy,
525
00:37:42,534 --> 00:37:45,567
I kept my mind occupied.
526
00:37:45,634 --> 00:37:48,868
Like when I was in Green Bay,
I did auto body for nine years.
527
00:37:49,934 --> 00:37:55,367
All day, I got my mind working on cars
and paint and everything else.
528
00:37:57,100 --> 00:37:58,801
But then when that's all done,
529
00:37:58,868 --> 00:38:02,501
come back and take a shower
and then you sit in a room
530
00:38:02,567 --> 00:38:04,400
and listen to the bars.
531
00:38:08,667 --> 00:38:12,167
His mother
and dad stuck by him the most.
532
00:38:12,234 --> 00:38:16,167
Mainly his mother. Mainly his mother.
533
00:38:16,234 --> 00:38:20,167
She stuck by him all those years
he was in prison.
534
00:38:20,234 --> 00:38:24,067
So did my brother. All the money they had,
it went towards getting him out of prison,
535
00:38:24,133 --> 00:38:26,133
saying he was innocent.
536
00:38:36,501 --> 00:38:42,767
Steven and his parents came to us,
I think at the stage that,
537
00:38:42,834 --> 00:38:46,634
you know, they decided
this was kind of their one last gasp.
538
00:38:53,267 --> 00:38:57,734
The problem was that virtually
all the issues that would arise
539
00:38:57,801 --> 00:39:00,901
from the conviction itself
had already been litigated
540
00:39:00,968 --> 00:39:05,133
and had already been decided
adversely to Steven.
541
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,868
It essentially came down
to a requirement
542
00:39:07,934 --> 00:39:09,968
that we come up with
some newly discovered evidence.
543
00:39:11,467 --> 00:39:17,000
Rob Henak had to root around
in the Manitowoc courthouse,
544
00:39:17,067 --> 00:39:20,267
eventually having the clerks
help find boxes.
545
00:39:21,434 --> 00:39:25,400
And then going through the boxes
and finding samples of things.
546
00:39:25,467 --> 00:39:29,400
We noted that the sex crimes kit
had been completed
547
00:39:29,467 --> 00:39:32,934
and that there were
the fingernail scrapings
548
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,501
that had been collected at the time.
549
00:39:35,567 --> 00:39:38,901
The science of DNA at that stage
hadn't developed sufficiently.
550
00:39:38,968 --> 00:39:42,067
So nobody had really
ever done anything with them.
551
00:39:42,133 --> 00:39:46,567
We had the fingernail scrapings
tested by Lab Corporation of America,
552
00:39:46,634 --> 00:39:51,267
and in 1995,
with the testing they're able to do,
553
00:39:51,334 --> 00:39:54,601
they're able to limit
all the population of the world
554
00:39:54,667 --> 00:39:58,868
into particular groups,
based on what are called alleles.
555
00:39:58,934 --> 00:40:00,100
Each of us has two alleles.
556
00:40:01,801 --> 00:40:06,300
Steve Avery and the victim
have the same alleles.
557
00:40:06,367 --> 00:40:11,367
However, they found three alleles
in the fingernail scrapings.
558
00:40:11,434 --> 00:40:14,934
Two of them that matched Steve Avery's
and the victim's,
559
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,901
and one that didn't match either of them.
560
00:40:16,968 --> 00:40:22,067
Meaning there had to be DNA from a person
not Steve Avery under her fingernails.
561
00:40:24,701 --> 00:40:27,868
Our argument was that a jury
could look at this evidence
562
00:40:27,934 --> 00:40:30,868
and decide that it was most likely
the perpetrator.
563
00:40:30,934 --> 00:40:33,434
And when you look at all
the other evidence tied together,
564
00:40:33,501 --> 00:40:38,300
the alibi evidence, the fact that
the victim was wrong about the eye color,
565
00:40:38,367 --> 00:40:42,634
the fact that the victim identified the
perpetrator as wearing white underwear
566
00:40:42,701 --> 00:40:44,901
when Steve Avery
didn't even own underwear,
567
00:40:44,968 --> 00:40:46,667
that those kind of things would create
568
00:40:46,734 --> 00:40:48,501
a reasonable probability
of a different result.
569
00:40:52,300 --> 00:40:55,901
In this instance, the DNA evidence...
570
00:40:57,767 --> 00:41:00,300
requires that the court speculate.
571
00:41:00,367 --> 00:41:04,033
Regardless of which side I look at
and which argument I hear.
572
00:41:04,300 --> 00:41:07,434
The court accepted the state's argument
573
00:41:07,501 --> 00:41:10,968
that since we couldn't
prove whose DNA it was,
574
00:41:11,033 --> 00:41:15,434
we couldn't discount the fact
that this could've been her husband's DNA,
575
00:41:15,501 --> 00:41:18,901
one of the medical personnel's DNA,
576
00:41:18,968 --> 00:41:22,701
the couple that found Penny Beerntsen
on the beach
577
00:41:22,767 --> 00:41:24,968
and comforted her and clothed her
578
00:41:25,033 --> 00:41:30,267
while they were waiting
for, uh, medical assistance. Um...
579
00:41:30,334 --> 00:41:33,868
And, I mean, in my mind,
and certainly in Rob's mind,
580
00:41:33,934 --> 00:41:37,467
all of that was preposterous
because Penny Beerntsen had never said
581
00:41:37,534 --> 00:41:42,467
that she scraped any of those people
or had any reason to claw at them.
582
00:41:42,534 --> 00:41:45,734
Nonetheless, the court ruled against us.
583
00:41:45,801 --> 00:41:48,334
The court of appeals ruled against us.
584
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,334
The Wisconsin Supreme Court
ruled against us.
585
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,834
And if you ever want to read an opinion,
by the way,
586
00:41:54,901 --> 00:42:00,033
that will show you how strongly
this system is designed
587
00:42:00,100 --> 00:42:02,601
to perpetuate a conviction,
588
00:42:02,667 --> 00:42:07,400
as opposed to examine whether or not
somebody could in fact be innocent,
589
00:42:07,467 --> 00:42:10,934
read the court of appeals decision
in Steven Avery's case.
590
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,334
You would think that this
was the guiltiest person
591
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,300
that had ever been uncovered
in a criminal case in Wisconsin.
592
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,601
It's now '96 or '97.
593
00:42:23,667 --> 00:42:28,767
You have exhausted
every legal proceeding that is...
594
00:42:28,834 --> 00:42:30,501
remotely available to you.
595
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,601
You've now been in this system
for 12 years.
596
00:42:34,667 --> 00:42:38,801
You are a son who cares deeply
about his parents.
597
00:42:38,868 --> 00:42:43,567
And his parents are getting older and
older while he's sitting in this joint,
598
00:42:43,634 --> 00:42:46,834
who cares about his kids
who are getting older and older.
599
00:42:46,901 --> 00:42:51,367
The pressure of that on a person to...
600
00:42:52,334 --> 00:42:54,801
wrongfully confess, if you will,
601
00:42:54,868 --> 00:42:58,601
and to say, "OK, look, um...
602
00:42:58,667 --> 00:43:03,334
I've... I've fought the good fight,
I've gone through all my appellate stuff,
603
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,834
I'm not getting anywhere with it,
it's time to level with you guys.
604
00:43:06,901 --> 00:43:08,400
I really did this crime."
605
00:43:08,467 --> 00:43:14,567
I mean, those pressures have gotta be
more intense than we can imagine.
606
00:43:15,367 --> 00:43:18,467
They always told me,
"If you admit to it, we'll let you out.
607
00:43:18,534 --> 00:43:22,767
Otherwise, you'll be here until your MR."
You know?
608
00:43:23,667 --> 00:43:27,400
So I guess I'll be in here 'til my MR,
'cause I ain't gonna admit to it.
609
00:43:27,467 --> 00:43:28,868
I'm not gonna lie.
610
00:43:46,300 --> 00:43:48,834
Here's the court of appeals.
611
00:43:54,033 --> 00:43:56,033
Sentencing papers.
612
00:44:00,801 --> 00:44:06,667
This one must've been in... '98.
I sent transcripts out.
613
00:44:06,734 --> 00:44:10,334
A whole bunch of them.
I made ten copies.
614
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:15,467
Sit in the living room
and done it on the copy machine.
615
00:44:15,534 --> 00:44:20,300
Then I put the pieces, each on the table
to make ten, you know, ten of them.
616
00:44:21,667 --> 00:44:23,968
It was nerve-racking.
617
00:44:24,667 --> 00:44:27,000
I think there's about
a thousand pages in 'em.
618
00:44:33,868 --> 00:44:35,901
This one went to New York.
619
00:44:38,367 --> 00:44:39,934
They went all over.
620
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,300
Wherever 60 Minutes is or 20/20 or...
621
00:44:44,367 --> 00:44:46,934
I can't remember
the other ones all.
622
00:44:47,934 --> 00:44:50,367
All them things that's on TV always.
623
00:44:50,434 --> 00:44:55,734
I thought they'd help Steven to get out
if they read all this here script stuff.
624
00:44:55,801 --> 00:44:59,501
Then all of a sudden
we got a lot of 'em back, though.
625
00:45:00,501 --> 00:45:04,400
They couldn't do it, they said,
or something like that.
626
00:45:08,701 --> 00:45:11,868
Yeah, I put a lot of hours in these boxes.
627
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,901
You learn to take
patience, because everything...
628
00:45:23,968 --> 00:45:25,467
it takes time.
629
00:45:26,868 --> 00:45:28,501
In prison, you gotta wait.
630
00:45:29,434 --> 00:45:31,434
Nothing happens just like that.
631
00:45:33,667 --> 00:45:36,834
Anyway, they couldn't take away
my love for my family and that.
632
00:45:40,901 --> 00:45:44,634
I never had bad hopes.
It was always good hopes.
633
00:46:01,033 --> 00:46:03,267
Both his trial lawyer
and his appellate lawyer said,
634
00:46:03,334 --> 00:46:06,501
"Could you look at this guy's case,
at Steven Avery's case?
635
00:46:06,567 --> 00:46:09,167
We've been losing sleep
over this case for 15 years."
636
00:46:09,234 --> 00:46:13,467
We knew the technology had advanced,
so we asked for the testing again.
637
00:46:13,534 --> 00:46:15,701
The material was sent down
to the crime laboratory again,
638
00:46:15,767 --> 00:46:18,234
and what they found
was that there were 13 pubic hairs
639
00:46:18,300 --> 00:46:22,133
that had been collected during
the pubic hair combings of the victim.
640
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,200
Eleven of those hairs had no root.
641
00:46:25,267 --> 00:46:27,267
So they were down to two pubic hairs.
642
00:46:27,334 --> 00:46:32,067
One of those hairs was from a female,
probably Penny Beerntsen's own hair.
643
00:46:32,133 --> 00:46:36,534
The truth in this matter came down
to that one remaining pubic hair.
644
00:46:40,133 --> 00:46:44,767
They got a full profile. That profile
conclusively excluded Steven Avery.
645
00:46:44,834 --> 00:46:48,200
It could not have come from him.
Now we know that with certainty.
646
00:46:48,267 --> 00:46:52,400
Whether that alone would've been enough
to grant him a new trial, I don't know.
647
00:46:52,467 --> 00:46:56,701
But even more dramatically, they took
that profile from that pubic hair
648
00:46:56,767 --> 00:46:59,601
and they ran it through
the state crime laboratory data bank
649
00:46:59,667 --> 00:47:01,167
and they got a cold hit.
650
00:47:01,234 --> 00:47:04,100
That is to say, they matched it
to somebody in the data bank
651
00:47:04,167 --> 00:47:08,067
who they didn't know was in there.
And that somebody was Gregory Allen.
652
00:47:27,234 --> 00:47:29,834
I feel free.
653
00:47:39,767 --> 00:47:42,167
When I left the prison, the anger left.
654
00:47:43,133 --> 00:47:44,267
It was gone.
655
00:47:45,167 --> 00:47:47,200
It stayed there, behind them gates.
656
00:47:47,934 --> 00:47:49,868
It didn't come out with me.
657
00:47:52,934 --> 00:47:54,868
I was happy when I got out.
658
00:47:55,367 --> 00:47:57,601
I probably was the happiest
man on the Earth.
659
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:10,968
- How you doing?
- Oh, hello.
660
00:48:11,033 --> 00:48:12,133
- How are you?
- I'm pretty good.
661
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,434
- How's it feel?
- It feels wonderful.
662
00:48:15,167 --> 00:48:17,734
Oh, God! Oh, Stevie!
663
00:48:20,367 --> 00:48:23,601
Let's get rid of this thing.
664
00:48:30,334 --> 00:48:32,834
I'm just glad they got the guy who did it.
665
00:48:33,334 --> 00:48:35,734
Do you forgive the victim?
666
00:48:35,801 --> 00:48:38,033
It ain't at all her fault, you know.
667
00:48:38,100 --> 00:48:40,000
Honest mistake, you know.
668
00:48:40,701 --> 00:48:45,300
I mean, most the time,
I think the cops put it in her head more.
669
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:51,734
Who's this?
670
00:48:52,334 --> 00:48:56,067
I don't know.
671
00:49:02,734 --> 00:49:08,267
The revelation hit the DA's office
and the sheriff's office like a bomb.
672
00:49:09,267 --> 00:49:12,801
And as it began to unfold
what had happened,
673
00:49:12,868 --> 00:49:16,400
there was then a huge set
of repercussions
674
00:49:16,467 --> 00:49:20,534
on a whole series of people
in those offices.
675
00:49:20,601 --> 00:49:23,868
The day of
or the day after Steven's release,
676
00:49:23,934 --> 00:49:26,334
law enforcement officers in Manitowoc
677
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,767
are writing memos to describe activity
678
00:49:29,834 --> 00:49:32,367
that had occurred
almost ten years earlier.
679
00:49:35,033 --> 00:49:37,467
They don't do that
unless they feel threatened.
680
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,234
When I called Denis Vogel
to tell him the news
681
00:49:51,300 --> 00:49:54,767
that Steven Avery wasn't guilty
of assaulting Penny Beerntsen,
682
00:49:54,834 --> 00:49:59,868
I was expecting to hear some shock
or some surprise, like,
683
00:49:59,934 --> 00:50:05,601
"Oh, my goodness. How did this happen?"
or "I feel terrible about it" or...
684
00:50:05,667 --> 00:50:08,701
"Thank goodness the DNA proved it."
685
00:50:08,767 --> 00:50:11,501
But I didn't hear any of that
from Mr. Vogel.
686
00:50:11,567 --> 00:50:13,334
What I heard instead was a question,
687
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:18,901
whether or not there was anything
on Gregory Allen in his file.
688
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,200
I couldn't believe it.
I mean, it showed me two things.
689
00:50:24,267 --> 00:50:29,501
It showed me that he suspected
that Gregory Allen was the assailant.
690
00:50:29,567 --> 00:50:32,467
But it also showed me...
I didn't know how else to take it,
691
00:50:32,534 --> 00:50:36,234
other than that he was worried
about his exposure.
692
00:50:36,300 --> 00:50:39,601
That something about Gregory Allen
was in his file.
693
00:50:39,667 --> 00:50:44,033
I started leafing through Denis Vogel's
file on Avery and I come across
694
00:50:44,100 --> 00:50:45,400
a criminal complaint.
695
00:50:45,467 --> 00:50:49,400
"State of Wisconsin v. Gregory Allen"
in the Avery file,
696
00:50:49,467 --> 00:50:51,534
which didn't make a lot of sense.
697
00:50:51,601 --> 00:50:54,501
It was a charge of lewd
and lascivious behavior.
698
00:50:54,567 --> 00:50:59,067
He had dropped his shorts, he exposed
himself and he lunged at this woman.
699
00:50:59,133 --> 00:51:03,534
And it was the same basic section
of the beach
700
00:51:03,601 --> 00:51:08,167
where Penny Beerntsen
was assaulted two... two years later.
701
00:51:08,234 --> 00:51:12,801
Um, and I looked at which prosecutor
had prosecuted Gregory Allen earlier,
702
00:51:12,868 --> 00:51:14,534
and it was Denis Vogel.
703
00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:21,534
That was evidence
that at least made it possible
704
00:51:21,601 --> 00:51:25,067
that the DA and the sheriff
705
00:51:25,133 --> 00:51:28,501
either knew or should have known
706
00:51:28,567 --> 00:51:31,367
that Steven Avery was not the assailant.
707
00:51:31,434 --> 00:51:33,801
And not only that,
708
00:51:33,868 --> 00:51:39,067
we believe there was the potential
that they knew, in fact,
709
00:51:39,133 --> 00:51:43,334
who the assailant was,
but continued with the prosecution.
710
00:51:45,501 --> 00:51:48,000
We needed for somebody else to look at it
711
00:51:48,067 --> 00:51:52,033
and the logical office would
be the Attorney General's office.
712
00:51:53,567 --> 00:51:55,868
It's extraordinarily significant
713
00:51:55,934 --> 00:51:59,501
that a prosecutor
asks the Attorney General,
714
00:51:59,567 --> 00:52:05,133
the chief prosecutor of the state,
to investigate his own department
715
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:09,267
and law enforcement in that community.
That doesn't happen.
716
00:52:15,801 --> 00:52:18,400
Would you tell us
what your occupation is, please?
717
00:52:18,467 --> 00:52:22,634
I am a special agent with
the Wisconsin Department of Justice
718
00:52:22,701 --> 00:52:25,133
Division of Criminal Investigation.
719
00:52:25,767 --> 00:52:29,167
What are your duties as a special agent?
720
00:52:29,234 --> 00:52:35,200
To investigate crimes
relating to misconduct in office.
721
00:52:35,267 --> 00:52:38,267
And you were one of two DCI agents
722
00:52:38,334 --> 00:52:43,601
to work on an investigation
involving the prosecution in 1985
723
00:52:43,667 --> 00:52:46,267
- of Steven Avery, is that right?
- Yes.
724
00:52:46,334 --> 00:52:51,434
We wanted to interview everybody
we could identify as being involved
725
00:52:51,501 --> 00:52:55,634
in the investigation
or in the prosecution.
726
00:52:55,701 --> 00:52:59,701
Understand,
this is all happening in public view.
727
00:52:59,767 --> 00:53:04,634
The public knew an Attorney General's
investigation was underway.
728
00:53:04,701 --> 00:53:07,901
And there was a sense
729
00:53:07,968 --> 00:53:10,901
that law enforcement
may be vulnerable here,
730
00:53:10,968 --> 00:53:13,567
and probably feeling it, uh...
731
00:53:13,634 --> 00:53:19,501
because God knows there
were numerous editorials, articles,
732
00:53:19,567 --> 00:53:23,434
all of which had the theme
of "How could this happen?"
733
00:53:27,734 --> 00:53:31,300
The stories of mine that broke some new
ground were the ones that documented
734
00:53:31,367 --> 00:53:33,968
how quickly Steven Avery was a suspect
735
00:53:34,033 --> 00:53:37,601
and then how Gregory Allen
was not considered.
736
00:53:37,667 --> 00:53:41,567
I went through a lot of police records
about Gregory Allen
737
00:53:41,634 --> 00:53:47,000
and kind of built a chronology
of his contacts with law enforcement.
738
00:54:01,767 --> 00:54:06,667
Police in Manitowoc had followed him
for 13 straight days
739
00:54:06,734 --> 00:54:09,734
where they were making multiple checks
on him, as many as 14 times a day,
740
00:54:09,801 --> 00:54:14,601
because he had been implicated
in several sex-related crimes.
741
00:54:20,367 --> 00:54:25,467
After Steven Avery was already arrested,
had already been identified twice,
742
00:54:25,534 --> 00:54:28,467
the police department
contacted Penny Beerntsen.
743
00:54:28,534 --> 00:54:34,501
She was shocked and confused and contacted
the Sheriff's Department herself to ask,
744
00:54:34,567 --> 00:54:36,033
"What about this Gregory Allen?"
745
00:54:52,801 --> 00:54:56,968
This isn't just about
an innocent guy being locked up.
746
00:54:57,033 --> 00:55:01,901
It's about a dangerous rapist being out
on the streets doing what he wanted to do.
747
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:12,601
It was a hot end-of-June day in 1995,
748
00:55:12,667 --> 00:55:17,501
and I was laying on the couch
after I put my daughter to bed
749
00:55:17,567 --> 00:55:20,133
and had fallen asleep.
750
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:26,234
It was roughly 4:00 in the morning.
Gregory Allen broke into my home.
751
00:55:26,300 --> 00:55:31,100
He had taken the towel, apparently,
I guess, off the clothesline,
752
00:55:31,167 --> 00:55:33,033
threw it over my head
753
00:55:33,100 --> 00:55:36,167
and then dragged me
from the living room to the bedroom.
754
00:55:36,234 --> 00:55:41,400
He pretty much forced himself
as far as oral sex.
755
00:55:42,834 --> 00:55:46,767
It felt like an eternity at the moment.
756
00:55:46,834 --> 00:55:51,634
I was afraid my daughter, the next
morning, would find me in a pool of blood.
757
00:55:56,167 --> 00:55:59,701
But... thank God it didn't...
758
00:55:59,767 --> 00:56:02,200
It... We're OK.
759
00:56:04,100 --> 00:56:07,367
The judge that I had
during sentencing said,
760
00:56:07,434 --> 00:56:09,667
"If I could put you away for life,
I would,
761
00:56:09,734 --> 00:56:14,167
but unfortunately I can only give you
the maximum," which was 60 years.
762
00:56:14,234 --> 00:56:20,300
And he was around 47 at the time
that this happened, so...
763
00:56:21,367 --> 00:56:27,200
I don't think he'll...
be able to harm anyone ever again.
764
00:56:31,367 --> 00:56:35,367
Bergner went and talked
to Kocourek about Gregory Allen, right?
765
00:56:35,434 --> 00:56:36,567
Correct.
766
00:56:36,634 --> 00:56:40,868
No report was prepared by Kocourek
about the information
767
00:56:40,934 --> 00:56:42,868
that was brought to him
by Bergner, is that right?
768
00:56:42,934 --> 00:56:43,634
That's correct.
769
00:56:43,701 --> 00:56:47,667
Kocourek tells you
that he did not think
770
00:56:47,734 --> 00:56:51,601
that the Sheriff's Department knew
who Gregory Allen was in 1985.
771
00:56:51,667 --> 00:56:52,434
Correct.
772
00:56:53,601 --> 00:56:57,767
That was inconsistent with Allen
having been booked into the jail
773
00:56:57,834 --> 00:57:02,000
- and photographed in 1984.
- Correct.
774
00:57:02,067 --> 00:57:07,367
So if the sheriff had wanted
to see a photo of Allen in 1985,
775
00:57:07,434 --> 00:57:10,334
all he had to do was go
to his own jail and find it?
776
00:57:12,300 --> 00:57:13,667
Correct.
777
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:25,300
You and Deb tell the lawyers
that it appears
778
00:57:25,367 --> 00:57:29,934
that there was "no real investigation
done" by the Sheriff's Department,
779
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:34,033
and "they had a suspect
and they were gonna make it work."
780
00:57:34,100 --> 00:57:38,567
And that what's a little troubling to you
is the lack of paperwork that's done
781
00:57:38,634 --> 00:57:41,033
- and so forth.
- Deb would've wrote that.
782
00:57:41,100 --> 00:57:43,467
OK, but she's speaking for the two of you.
783
00:57:45,067 --> 00:57:47,467
Yes, I believe she was speaking
for the two of us.
784
00:57:47,534 --> 00:57:50,200
And was that your opinion at the time?
785
00:57:54,434 --> 00:57:56,968
Yeah, I think that
was our opinion at the time.
786
00:57:57,033 --> 00:58:00,934
In fact, it turned out
from all of your investigation
787
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:02,868
that this one was handled differently.
788
00:58:05,100 --> 00:58:06,467
It appeared from this investigation
789
00:58:06,534 --> 00:58:10,968
that the sheriff was really involved
in this one, which wasn't the norm.
790
00:58:11,033 --> 00:58:13,434
"The sheriff told the DA
not to screw this case up
791
00:58:13,501 --> 00:58:17,434
because the sheriff
wanted Avery convicted of this crime."
792
00:58:33,334 --> 00:58:36,200
The tables were turning entirely,
793
00:58:36,267 --> 00:58:39,968
and the changes
were all in Steven's favor.
794
00:58:40,934 --> 00:58:43,934
We thought
what had happened to Steven Avery
795
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,334
would have justified
the Attorney General's Office
796
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:51,200
into... uh, frankly,
into bringing criminal charges,
797
00:58:51,267 --> 00:58:55,567
but certainly warranted
a pretty strong condemnation.
798
00:59:12,567 --> 00:59:14,634
State Attorney
General Peg Lautenschlager
799
00:59:14,701 --> 00:59:17,534
says her department conducted
an exhaustive review
800
00:59:17,601 --> 00:59:19,467
of police and trial records
801
00:59:19,534 --> 00:59:23,534
and had interviews with the victim,
police, prosecutors, and defenders.
802
00:59:23,601 --> 00:59:24,601
Her conclusion?
803
00:59:24,667 --> 00:59:27,868
We don't see that there
are any criminal actions
804
00:59:27,934 --> 00:59:30,033
against somebody or criminal missteps.
805
00:59:30,100 --> 00:59:32,501
There don't seem
to be any ethical violations.
806
00:59:36,367 --> 00:59:38,667
They said there
was no wrongdoing with them.
807
00:59:38,734 --> 00:59:41,801
Then I wouldn't have did 18 years
if they didn't do nothing wrong.
808
00:59:41,868 --> 00:59:43,667
They did everything wrong.
809
00:59:44,534 --> 00:59:47,834
The state's
15-page review concludes that, at worst,
810
00:59:47,901 --> 00:59:50,701
the Sheriff's Department
failed to investigate Allen,
811
00:59:50,767 --> 00:59:54,067
all little consolation to Avery.
812
00:59:54,133 --> 00:59:56,534
I was hoping they were gonna do something
to Manitowoc County...
813
00:59:57,501 --> 01:00:00,300
and set them straight
so they don't do it again.
814
01:00:00,367 --> 01:00:03,067
When I saw the Justice Department report,
it was like,
815
01:00:03,133 --> 01:00:06,801
they kind of said, "Well, yeah,
they did these things that were wrong.
816
01:00:06,868 --> 01:00:09,300
Oh, you know, but they kind of
had good intentions,"
817
01:00:09,367 --> 01:00:11,801
or some crap like that.
"So we don't really think
818
01:00:11,868 --> 01:00:15,767
anything further is justified."
It's like, what a crock of shit.
819
01:00:17,234 --> 01:00:22,534
People did a lot of wrong things,
and a man's life suffered.
820
01:00:23,501 --> 01:00:28,467
How can that not be... worth anything?
821
01:00:30,067 --> 01:00:34,167
I don't think Steven had any alternative
but to bring the lawsuit.
822
01:00:34,234 --> 01:00:38,501
There was never going to be
law enforcement recognition
823
01:00:38,567 --> 01:00:40,234
and acceptance of responsibility.
824
01:00:40,300 --> 01:00:44,467
There was never going to be
law enforcement held accountable.
825
01:00:44,534 --> 01:00:46,234
I just didn't think
that was going to happen,
826
01:00:46,300 --> 01:00:50,100
and it sure as hell wasn't gonna happen
after the AG's report.
827
01:00:50,167 --> 01:00:55,267
I mean, I'm... I'm amazed
that sitting in Milwaukee
828
01:00:55,334 --> 01:00:58,567
we couldn't hear the sigh of relief
coming out of Manitowoc
829
01:00:58,634 --> 01:01:01,067
as soon as that AG's report came out.
830
01:01:01,133 --> 01:01:05,234
Sometimes it just makes me sick, just
hearing about it and what they all did.
831
01:01:09,601 --> 01:01:13,434
Everything they did wrong
should come back at 'em.
832
01:01:17,901 --> 01:01:21,434
They weren't just gonna let Stevie out.
833
01:01:21,501 --> 01:01:27,767
They weren't gonna
hand that man $36 million.
834
01:01:27,834 --> 01:01:30,868
They weren't gonna be made
a laughingstock, that's for sure.
835
01:01:30,934 --> 01:01:33,701
They just weren't gonna do all that.
836
01:01:33,767 --> 01:01:36,033
And something in my gut
said they're not done with him.
837
01:01:36,100 --> 01:01:37,534
Something's gonna happen.
838
01:01:37,601 --> 01:01:41,100
They're not handing that kind of money
over to Steve Avery.
839
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:45,467
We told him he could expect
people would say
840
01:01:45,534 --> 01:01:48,501
that this was just a get-rich effort.
841
01:01:48,567 --> 01:01:52,300
That family private matters
would now be public,
842
01:01:52,367 --> 01:01:55,000
and, you know, don't be too surprised
843
01:01:55,067 --> 01:01:58,467
if people say some things about you
that you've never even heard before,
844
01:01:58,534 --> 01:01:59,601
that are just plain false.
845
01:02:02,501 --> 01:02:07,167
The one thing we didn't tell him
is that you have to be careful
846
01:02:07,234 --> 01:02:11,234
when you bring a lawsuit
against a Sheriff's Department
847
01:02:11,300 --> 01:02:13,534
in a community where you still live,
848
01:02:13,601 --> 01:02:17,634
because you could end up
getting charged with murder.
849
01:02:26,167 --> 01:02:28,167
Do we have a body or anything yet?
850
01:02:28,234 --> 01:02:30,667
I don't believe so.
851
01:02:30,734 --> 01:02:34,167
Do we have Steven Avery
in custody though?
852
01:02:37,268 --> 01:02:42,268
Sync and corrections by explosiveskull
www.addic7ed.com
74958
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